1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 06 Dec 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 677       Contents:2 Re: finding out what is installed on a system disk- Re: HP Expected to Drop Trucluster from HP-UX - Re: HP Expected to Drop Trucluster from HP-UX - Re: HP Expected to Drop Trucluster from HP-UX - Re: HP Expected to Drop Trucluster from HP-UX - Re: HP Expected to Drop Trucluster from HP-UX - Re: HP Expected to Drop Trucluster from HP-UX 2 Re: I'd rather wait a year for a superior product!2 Re: I'd rather wait a year for a superior product!? RE: IBM smells the coffee - HP refuses to market profitable VMS ? Re: IBM smells the coffee - HP refuses to market profitable VMS  Re: Java on VMS  Re: Java on VMS + Re: Macintosh Installers (was: Java on VMS)  OpenVMS V7.3-2 License issue  Re: OpenVMS V7.3-2 License issue( Re: OpenVMS.org  comp.os.vms link failed( Re: OpenVMS.org  comp.os.vms link failed Re: OT: HP and US dollar; Re: Reinstalling DECwindows after losing it during upgrade? ; Re: Reinstalling DECwindows after losing it during upgrade? ; Re: Reinstalling DECwindows after losing it during upgrade?  Username for SSH Re: Username for SSH1 Re: VMS stand alone backup is what in MS Windows? 1 Re: VMS stand alone backup is what in MS Windows? 1 Re: VMS stand alone backup is what in MS Windows? 1 Re: VMS stand alone backup is what in MS Windows? 1 Re: VMS stand alone backup is what in MS Windows? 1 Re: VMS stand alone backup is what in MS Windows?  [Fwd: OT: HP and US dollar]   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 07:51:15 GMT + From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) ; Subject: Re: finding out what is installed on a system disk 4 Message-ID: <TbUsd.79038$g21.38239@fe1.texas.rr.com>  . Larry Kilgallen (Kilgallen@SpamCop.net) wrote: : B : If SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTAL.HISTORY has been added to VAX it is only : quite recently . :   > In comp.os.vms Message-ID: <77d2fq$ecd@usenet.pa.dec.com>#1/1,
 Hoff said:  B  "On an OpenVMS VAX release after V7.2, OpenVMS VAX VMSINSTAL willE   likely be extended to provide support for a VMSINSTAL.HISTORY file.   B   Compaq services offers a service that can inventory the software1   installed on a system, if that is of interest."   G There had been previous threads on making the extension to OpenVMS VAX  * VMSINSTAL availble as an ECO for Y2K work.   --Jerry Leslie9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:51:36 +0000 (UTC)6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)6 Subject: Re: HP Expected to Drop Trucluster from HP-UX1 Message-ID: <newscache$1uqa8i$8y71$1@news.sil.at>   \ In article <41B391E1.44A40D59@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:M >I think that we may be seeing pieces of the puzzle start to fall into place.  > E >So, DEC engineers have spent the last couple of years trying to port A >TruCluster to HP-UX/IA64 and change its endianness to fit HP-UX.   D Which was the wrong decision. DEC and Wintel is Little Endian World.G So you have less problems in the future migrating _to_ Little Endian...   : >Rumours abound about the lack of a bright future for IA64 > O >HP abandons TruCluster in favour of industry standard Veritas which is already  >available on many platforms.   H Which gives the next problem. Can I get a hobbyist/noncommercial license/ for VERITAS like I can for OSF1^WdUNIX^WTru64 ?    O >If IA64 is to go, it means that a lot of the work done by the DEC engineers to H >port TruCluster would be wasted and that would require further delay inF >porting to the 8086 or to PaRisc should HP decide to revive the chip.    Or to Alpha (if Sue becomes CEO)  L >Inquirer mentioned an imminent iceberg hit for IA64. With recent statementsM >about downscaling of IA64 (no more workstations, and intel admitting it will N >further restrict its niche to high performance computing), I don't think thatC >they can go on much longer without making some official statement.   9 Why not ? Official Lie vs. Silence ? What do you prefer ?    >I can just see the headline:  > B >Intel abandons IA64, HP chooses Sparc for its enterprise systems.
 ><ducking>  * No. Opteron and Power5. SPARC is too slow.   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 07:07:39 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: Re: HP Expected to Drop Trucluster from HP-UX, Message-ID: <41B44B5D.7B42486B@teksavvy.com>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:F > Which was the wrong decision. DEC and Wintel is Little Endian World.I > So you have less problems in the future migrating _to_ Little Endian...   N Which is why HP-UX's life is in question since it is not only being sent to anN unsavoury platform, but also uses an endianness which isn't industry-standard.F Could HP-UX run on Power or the 8086 ? Are those platforms bi-endian ?  K If there are no "modern" platforms for HP-UX to run on with its endianness, Q then the demise of IA64 either signifies the end of HP-UX, or revival of Pa-Risc.   L I could see HP announcing official move to Linux, with a HP-packaged productL that include commercial products such as Veritas etc etc. And to allow HP-UXR time, HP might do a few process shrinks and speed bumps of existing Pa-Risc chips.  " > Or to Alpha (if Sue becomes CEO)  G We'd have to be REALLY nice to Sue and send her plenty of chocolates to J convince her to revive Alpha and market VMS big time :-) Would Sue inherit Carly's private jets ?  P > >further restrict its niche to high performance computing), I don't think thatE > >they can go on much longer without making some official statement.  > ; > Why not ? Official Lie vs. Silence ? What do you prefer ?   M Well, it is a question of confidence. With every hint that is leaked that all L is not well with HP-UX and/or IA64, customers start to suspect that HP/IntelG already have  a roadmap that is different from that which is published. N Eventually, if HP doesn't come clean, those "suspicions" will become distrust.I And that isn't good because it will kill sales, especially when the press ? starts to take it for granted that HP will kill HP-UX and IA64.     I HP has little credibility with customers of Alpha heritage due to all the L broken commitments. But HP-UX customers probably still have some trust in HPL because they haven't been screwed so much yet. But even they will eventuallyL become cynical. The fact that HP-UX customers are still buying Pa-Risc basedK systems is an indication that they too don't see IA64 is such a great thing H (and IA64 has been a possible platform for HP=UX for some time already).  K Alpha's murder was annoucned no long after Intel announced that someonw was I able to succesfully boot Windows on merced. My guess is that once Intel's P 64-bit 8086 boots windows succesfully,  HP/Intel might announce the end of IA64.      , > No. Opteron and Power5. SPARC is too slow.  L Power is the tehcnological choice. But I am not sure IBM would want its mainI competitor to share that chip. Having the performance advantage is a good 9 thing for IBM, especially since HP-UX is superior to AIX.   N Carly would want to use Intel's 64 bit 8086. Question is how long it will takeN for IBM to ramp up that chip to scale on large systems. (eg: Superdomes). Now,I if Intel doesn't kill IA64 and prevents the 8086 from scaling up, but AMD L makes Opteron scale up to 64 processors, HP may have no choice but drop IA64 and go AMD.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2004 07:50:18 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 6 Subject: Re: HP Expected to Drop Trucluster from HP-UX3 Message-ID: <AjHZMKzDO5QE@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <newscache$1uqa8i$8y71$1@news.sil.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:^ > In article <41B391E1.44A40D59@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:N >>I think that we may be seeing pieces of the puzzle start to fall into place. >>F >>So, DEC engineers have spent the last couple of years trying to portB >>TruCluster to HP-UX/IA64 and change its endianness to fit HP-UX. > F > Which was the wrong decision. DEC and Wintel is Little Endian World.I > So you have less problems in the future migrating _to_ Little Endian...   F Not if the majority of your (Unix) customers are currently Big Endian.   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 15:27:01 +0000 (UTC)6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)6 Subject: Re: HP Expected to Drop Trucluster from HP-UX1 Message-ID: <newscache$1l3b8i$q3c1$1@news.sil.at>   c In article <AjHZMKzDO5QE@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: k >In article <newscache$1uqa8i$8y71$1@news.sil.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: _ >> In article <41B391E1.44A40D59@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: O >>>I think that we may be seeing pieces of the puzzle start to fall into place.  >>> G >>>So, DEC engineers have spent the last couple of years trying to port C >>>TruCluster to HP-UX/IA64 and change its endianness to fit HP-UX.  >>  G >> Which was the wrong decision. DEC and Wintel is Little Endian World. J >> So you have less problems in the future migrating _to_ Little Endian... > G >Not if the majority of your (Unix) customers are currently Big Endian.   N Which are forced to migrate to a new platform because you abandoned PA-RISC... --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2004 12:04:02 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 6 Subject: Re: HP Expected to Drop Trucluster from HP-UX3 Message-ID: <EiIKlHy$yM+y@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <41B44B5D.7B42486B@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:" > Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:G >> Which was the wrong decision. DEC and Wintel is Little Endian World. J >> So you have less problems in the future migrating _to_ Little Endian... > P > Which is why HP-UX's life is in question since it is not only being sent to anP > unsavoury platform, but also uses an endianness which isn't industry-standard.H > Could HP-UX run on Power or the 8086 ? Are those platforms bi-endian ?  .    IA64 and Power are bi-endian.  8086 is not.  M > If there are no "modern" platforms for HP-UX to run on with its endianness, S > then the demise of IA64 either signifies the end of HP-UX, or revival of Pa-Risc.   F    Every RISC chip I know of is bi-endian now.  Which means any modern>    platform, unless you count 64 bit 8086 as "modern" somehow.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2004 12:20:13 -0600 4 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)6 Subject: Re: HP Expected to Drop Trucluster from HP-UX3 Message-ID: <GM6oYNnIF$+m@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <41B44B5D.7B42486B@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:K > HP has little credibility with customers of Alpha heritage due to all the N > broken commitments. But HP-UX customers probably still have some trust in HPN > because they haven't been screwed so much yet. But even they will eventuallyN > become cynical. The fact that HP-UX customers are still buying Pa-Risc basedM > systems is an indication that they too don't see IA64 is such a great thing J > (and IA64 has been a possible platform for HP=UX for some time already).  G All HP-UX users need do is look to MPE customers. How many of them were % talked into PA-RISC as a replacement?   M > Alpha's murder was annoucned no long after Intel announced that someonw was K > able to succesfully boot Windows on merced. My guess is that once Intel's R > 64-bit 8086 boots windows succesfully,  HP/Intel might announce the end of IA64.  J Alphacide was one of the conditions Compaq had to do to get HP to buy themJ out. All you need do is look back at the handful of pieces DEC spun off toJ grease the Compaq merger a few years earlier to see history repeat itself:F FAB, PolyCenter, RDB, Disk/Tape, and I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple.  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  H         It had become an universal and almost uncontroverted position inG         the several States, that the purposes of society do not require E         a surrender of all our rights to our ordinary governors; that H         there are certain portions of right not necessary to enable themE         to carry on an effective government, and which experience has F         nevertheless proved they will be constantly encroaching on, ifC         submitted to them; that there are also certain fences which G         experience has proved peculiarly efficacious against wrong, and H         rarely obstructive of right, which yet the governing powers haveC         ever shown a disposition to weaken and remove. Of the first H         kind, for instance, is freedom of religion; of the second, trialF         by jury, habeas corpus laws, free presses. -- Thomas Jefferson   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 15:59:31 GMT % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> ; Subject: Re: I'd rather wait a year for a superior product! > Message-ID: <Dl%sd.29138$Rf1.21715@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>  6 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0412051003.294b88f2@posting.google.com... ? > What is this "you get a new file system one year early" bull? < > If I were a tru64 user, or HP unix user for that matter, I> > would rather wait a year for a superior product then to have> > a generic substitute ... if anyone buys this baloney, then I% > have some swamp land in Florida ...  >   L It could be that HP looked at the TruCluster project and decided to dump it F because, if someone wants real clusters, they would sell them OpenVMS.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2004 10:30:33 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ; Subject: Re: I'd rather wait a year for a superior product! 3 Message-ID: <HQ12B+brB0qK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <Dl%sd.29138$Rf1.21715@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:8 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 9 > news:d7791aa1.0412051003.294b88f2@posting.google.com... @ >> What is this "you get a new file system one year early" bull?= >> If I were a tru64 user, or HP unix user for that matter, I ? >> would rather wait a year for a superior product then to have ? >> a generic substitute ... if anyone buys this baloney, then I & >> have some swamp land in Florida ... >> > N > It could be that HP looked at the TruCluster project and decided to dump it H > because, if someone wants real clusters, they would sell them OpenVMS.  F That is a reasonable decision, even if they made it for other reasons.  7 Competing with Yet Another Unix is not very profitable.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 09:53:58 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> H Subject: RE: IBM smells the coffee - HP refuses to market profitable VMSR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB4E995F@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Israel T [mailto:rambam@bigpond.net.au]=20  > Sent: December 5, 2004 2:11 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > > Subject: Re: IBM smells the coffee - HP refuses to market=20 > profitable VMS >=20, > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: >=20$ > > (never mind the price of all the > > add ons i.e. security) >=20 > They are free too. > Have a look at freshmeat.  >=20; > > VMS and itanium are the wildcards ... if the alpha team  > > can improve on itanium >=20# > To paraphrase Pink Floyd's Sheep:  >=20 > "Have you heard the news ? > The dog is dead" >=20G > Intel is deperately looking for a way to cancel the Itanic without=20  > looking too stupid.     = If this were true, then what about the following: Dec 6, 2004 + http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=3D20059 3 "Montecito: This Intel monster flags new direction"     Regards  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 16:57:36 GMT ( From: Joe Matuscak <matuscak@rohrer.com>H Subject: Re: IBM smells the coffee - HP refuses to market profitable VMS? Message-ID: <MPG.1c1e5a502a85b71e989682@news-server.neo.rr.com>   8 > every cost cutting angle they can ... why do you think9 > ceo's drool over a piece of $#!] like linux ... because 9 > the licensing is cheap (never mind the price of all the  > add ons i.e. security)  H I'll preface this with the comment that I used VMS for a fair number of G years and loved it.  I stil have a part of the gray wall doc set in my   basement. (snif)    H From where I sit, the major thing my company buys a computer for is the F applications, not the OS.  While it pains me to say it, there is, for I all intents and purposes, no viable application software on VMS anymore.    G When it comes down to Windows vs Linux,  I think Linux is superior (at  H least where the applications exist). I have about half and half Windows G and Linux server systems. The Linux ones are doing web, dns, email and  F they do spectacularly well at it. Im quite happy with the reliability H and security of our Linux boxen.   Its also fair to say that one of the C attractions of the OSS world is eliminating the license hassles. I  C *really* like that. I have a fair bit of Linux stuff in place, and  , *none* of it has any pay for play features.   I The long and the short of this is that I dont think its accurate to call  H Linux "a piece of $#!]", at least compared to the (viable) alternatives.   --   Joe Matuscak Rohrer Corporation 717 Seville Road Wadsworth, OH 44281    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 08:50:06 GMT  From: reb <natron@ntlworld.com>  Subject: Re: Java on VMS0 Message-ID: <opsikv3fkiaqvj2s@news.ntlworld.com>  H On 5 Dec 2004 11:06:30 -0800, dieter rossbach <dieter.rossbach@gmx.de>   wrote: > % > We are very happy with java on VMS.  > F > It was a big step forward for us, we develop with W2K /WXP, NetbeansF > and Mysql and the production systems run on VMS 7.3-2 with oracle or) > Rdb. (And on Linux, we tested that ...)  >  > Our applications are:  > H > 1. Level 2 automation system for steel plants and similar environmentsE > 2. Laboratory Information System for Automatic Data Acquisition and * > Handling with Level 2 Automation Systems > H > These systems have everything in them: lot of socket based I/O to realG > time systems, multi national language support (one of the lab systems ! > run in China). Corba, JDBC, ...  > G > 3. Content Management for Online Magazines (based on CSWS and TOMCAT)  > C > We have almost NO porting to do. Maybe that porting existing java > > applications causes problems, but not with new applications.       This is precisely the case.   D New Java applications tend not to make any reference to the featuresB of the underlying file system because there is no ability to do so@ provided by the standard class libraries. This is the normal wayA computing languages have traditionally provided portability, i.e.  by ignoring the difficult bits.   A Another example is the Mac; applications developed on the classic B Mac will often make use of 'resource forks', which are unsupportedE by the Java SDK on MacOS 9 or X. Instead the programmer has to either @ roll their own solution or find a third-party solution that theyA can license. These now exist for Mac resource forks, I don't know @ about similar resources for the various VMS file types (I'd hope? hp would provide these, although Apple didn't in the Mac case).   C There can be some interesting side effects: a well-known commercial @ installer product that is sold on MacOS X cannot handle resourceA forks for exactly this reason - it is now implemented in Java and ? they wont add support for any non-standard file system features > (well, I suspect they would if they were MS Windows features).     plus ca change      
 Roger Barnett    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2004 12:08:41 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Java on VMS3 Message-ID: <jDy68odRY5Of@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <95B4B8AA0wspenceraporg@216.168.3.30>, wspencer@ap.dontspamme.org (Warren Spencer) writes:  > N > I believe he was saying it meets the full Java specification, so you should K > encounter no differences within the Java environment between the OpenVMS  ) > platform and other compliant platforms.   E    We used VMS as the development platfomr for a compile-once, deploy H    "everywhere" Java based application and were very happy with it.  ButD    we did have about 2 lines of code that were platform specific forC    every platform, to address issues not addressed by Java.  Mac OS F    has the most, about 10 lines.  It was about six until OS X providedB    a different behaviour from Classic and we had to conditionalize    some Classic-only code.  C    Meanwhile on VMS, I wrote a TPU extenstion to force Java source  G    files to be written STMLF, and we still have to set file attributes  ,    to STMLF after downloading .zip and .jar.  3    That and no sound support.  I like things quiet.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2004 07:53:02 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 4 Subject: Re: Macintosh Installers (was: Java on VMS)3 Message-ID: <wxBA2$Ddd8l$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   R In article <opsikv3fkiaqvj2s@news.ntlworld.com>, reb <natron@ntlworld.com> writes:  E > There can be some interesting side effects: a well-known commercial B > installer product that is sold on MacOS X cannot handle resourceC > forks for exactly this reason - it is now implemented in Java and A > they wont add support for any non-standard file system features @ > (well, I suspect they would if they were MS Windows features).  ( Please give the name of that installer !   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 14:34:07 GMT ( From: "John Hayes" <hayes1966@yahoo.com>% Subject: OpenVMS V7.3-2 License issue : Message-ID: <z5_sd.2228$nE7.52@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>   Hi,   K Recently (not sure when it started happening) our system has been grabbing  M an openvms license for each process the user creates. We have an application  G that spawns a new process as part of the application and each of these  @ seperate processes grab a license. Any one else experience this?  8 We have a two node cluster system running open vms 7.3-2   Thanks   John     ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:38:17 -0500< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>) Subject: Re: OpenVMS V7.3-2 License issue , Message-ID: <31jn8rF3abs0pU1@individual.net>   John Hayes wrote:  > Hi,  > C > Recently (not sure when it started happening) our system has been C > grabbing an openvms license for each process the user creates. We > > have an application that spawns a new process as part of theF > application and each of these seperate processes grab a license. Any >...  E Haven't seen it myself, I do not have a 7.3-2 system that I can reach @ right now to test, but I'm sure I would have noticed if this was
 happening.  = Just to be sure that these are subprocesses try doing a "show  license/usage/full *vms*"   , Then for every process ID you see do a "show# process/rights/subprocesses/id=pid"   H If you do have sub-processes requesting licenses then post an example ofG how the spawn is happening, is it a DCL spawn or a system service call?    --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 12:13:54 -0000 / From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> 1 Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org  comp.os.vms link failed 0 Message-ID: <10r8j82eu14caf1@corp.supernews.com>  C Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-earth.ufp> wrote:   / > That new Google style is absolutely horrible.   F > It looks like it has been designed by a Microsoftie let loose with a > HTML tool for the first time.    It looks poor in any browser.    --   Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net  ftp://invisible-island.net   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2004 06:51:50 -0600 B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)1 Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org  comp.os.vms link failed 3 Message-ID: <fzbQtmu2VBaJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <b096a4ee.0412031342.318a7fcf@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > : > The old style is still available, at least as I post, at > G > http://groups.google.com/groups?q=COMP.OS.VMS&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en  >   B This link no longer points to the old interface. However, going to   	http://groups.google.co.uk   " does still give the old interface.   Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       7 Microsoft: The Standard Oil Company of the 21st century    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 11:30:09 -0700 " From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>! Subject: Re: OT: HP and US dollar 0 Message-ID: <rvadnXbBrdbpOSncRVn-hA@bresnan.com>  
 leslie wrote: 0 > JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com) wrote:G > : The US dollar has been losing ground against major currencies at an H > : accelerated pace since early November. This can affect positively orH > : negatively major US corporations, depending on whether they are net  > : exporters or importers.  > :  > G > If Morgan Stanley's chief economist is right, HP's status as importer 0 > or exporter will be the least of our problems: > J >    http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=55356A >    BostonHerald.com - Business: Economic `Armageddon' predicted  > $ >   "Economic `Armageddon' predicted% >    By Brett Arends/ On State Street  >    Tuesday, November 23, 2004  > J >    Stephen Roach, the chief economist at investment banking giant Morgan8 >    Stanley, has a public reputation for being bearish. > 5 >    But you should hear what he's saying in private.  > L >    Roach met select groups of fund managers downtown last week, including  >    a group at Fidelity.  > F >    His prediction: America has no better than a 10 percent chance of& >    avoiding economic ``armageddon.'' > A >    Press were not allowed into the meetings. But the Herald has I >    obtained a copy of Roach's presentation. A stunned source who was at H >    one meeting said, ``it struck me how extreme he was - much more, it$ >    seemed to me, than in public.'' > D >    Roach sees a 30 percent chance of a slump soon and a 60 percentJ >    chance that ``we'll muddle through for a while and delay the eventual >    armageddon.'' > 7 >    The chance we'll get through OK: one in 10. Maybe.  >  >    [snip]  > A >    Smart people downtown agree with much of the analysis. It is E >    undeniable that America is living in a ``debt bubble'' of record  >    proportions.  > D >    But they argue there may be an alternative scenario to Roach's.G >    Greenspan might instead deliberately allow the dollar to slump and G >    inflation to rise, whittling away at the value of today's consumer  >    debts in real terms.  > F >    Inflation of 7 percent a year halves ``real'' values in a decade. > , >    It may be the only way out of the trap. > @ >    Higher interest rates, or higher inflation: Either way, theF >    biggest losers will be long-term lenders at fixed interest rates. > D >    You wouldn't want to hold 30-year Treasuries, which today yield >    just 4.83 percent." >  > 1 > Time to bury gold and AK-47s in the back yard ?  >   F I've been pondering the problem for quite a while now.  A much bigger = problem is looming in connection with an economic crises and  G bankruptcy...  almost all of our goods come from China.  As the dollar  F weakens the price of goods will also rise along with any inflationary H rises.  I'd say you better get everything fixed or purchased now or you D won't even be able to afford them.  Of course there may be a bright E lining in this black cloud.  Start up our old factories that used to   make the goods.   G Another problem, if there is an economic crises, we need food.  Who is  E going to take gold for food?  Maybe my sack of spuds will be worth a  C pound of gold.  Right now, we hear "Buy gold!".  Well, even if you  H physically hold the gold and the gov. devalues the dollar in half, what H will the price of gold be set at?  If the value isn't at least twice as F much, then it will be a scam to part the fool from his money or gold.  Hopefully, this won't happen.    --  ! ---------------------------------  Th3 G0ld3n Yrs Sux0r   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 14:51:49 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) D Subject: Re: Reinstalling DECwindows after losing it during upgrade?1 Message-ID: <9m_sd.3935$tV.1360@news.cpqcorp.net>   ^ In article <2004Dec3.132323@hujicc>, yehavi@vms.huji.ac.il (Yehavi Bourvine (58-4279)) writes: >Hello,  > H >  I did today an upgrade from VMS-7.3-1 to 7.3-2; during that upgrade IM >probably answered one of the questions wrong (sorry - don't remember exactly N >which) and lost DECwindows. Any idea how can I re-install DECwindows when the >system is running?   ? Best way is to boot the V7.3-2 Operating System CD.  Select the B "Install or upgrade layerd products..." option and choose DWMOTIF.    H From your running system, assuming the CD is mounted in DKA400, you can:  5     $ PRODUCT INSTALL DWMOTIF /SOURCE=DKA400:[KITS.*]   = (Or you can lookup the specific directlry fo the DMOTIF kit.)    --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 14:57:27 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) D Subject: Re: Reinstalling DECwindows after losing it during upgrade?1 Message-ID: <rr_sd.3936$tV.3644@news.cpqcorp.net>   - In article <41B07A4B.73D802F3@teksavvy.com>,  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:    >DECW$TAILOR is in SYS$UPDATE.     Not on Alpha or I64!!!< VMSTAILOR and DECW$TAILOR are not available on Alpha or I64.  B Boot the Operating System CD; or mount it and use PRODUCT INSTALL.   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 15:10:41 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) D Subject: Re: Reinstalling DECwindows after losing it during upgrade?/ Message-ID: <RD_sd.3937$tV.13@news.cpqcorp.net>   % In article <2004Dec4.083438@hujicc>,  9 yehavi@vms.huji.ac.il (Yehavi Bourvine (58-4279)) writes:   H >DWMOTIF doesn't want to install until I install the basic DECwindows... >  >Any more ideas please?   B Yes.  Stop messing around with options -- just install EVERYTHING.H HP strongly recommends this becausse... well, you now know why, I guess.  I Seriously -- given the COST of maintaining customized options vs the cost H of a larger disk drive, INSTALL EVERYTHING will be less costly in almost every situation.  $ Now, to get where you need to be ---C [You may want to review parts of the Upgade and Installation Manual  before you do the following.]   H Boot the OpenVMS Operating System CD and choose option 1).  At one pointF you will be prompted to re-install the operating system -- choose thatH option from the several others.  Answer "NO" when asked "Do you want theH defaults for all options?"  Then be sure you answer "YES" to "DECwindowsA Server Support".  This will re-install OpenVMS with the necessaryeH DECwindows (DWMITIF) support.  [I suggest you make sure that ALL options> are "YES" at this point -- you will be happier in the future!]  J After the operating system is reinstalled, choose option 3 to "Install or 2 upgrade layered products...", and choose DWMOTIF.   I When done, re-boot your system.  It will AUTOGEN and then you should comeo up with DECwindows.    --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2004 06:48:24 -0800e2 From: denis.holvoet@numericable.fr (Denis Holvoet) Subject: Username for SSHe= Message-ID: <299db9bd.0412060648.619f983e@posting.google.com>r  ( My company uses "$" in OpenVMS Username.& We test SSH in TCPIP version 5.4 ECO 2, But "$" is not allowed in SSH ? Is it true ?, What are exactly the permitted characters ? 1 Other products (Tcpware) accepts "$" in Username.g   Thanks for your help.S   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 15:29:57 +0000 (UTC)6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: Username for SSH 1 Message-ID: <newscache$yp3b8i$24c1$1@news.sil.at>   r In article <299db9bd.0412060648.619f983e@posting.google.com>, denis.holvoet@numericable.fr (Denis Holvoet) writes:) >My company uses "$" in OpenVMS Username.-' >We test SSH in TCPIP version 5.4 ECO 2-- >But "$" is not allowed in SSH ? Is it true ?1- >What are exactly the permitted characters ? e2 >Other products (Tcpware) accepts "$" in Username.  I This is fixed in TCPIP V5.4 ECO4 (and TCPIP V5.5 ECO1 - but not in V5.5).r   -- l Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialistI E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2004 07:05:38 -0800   From: "Barry" <dysert@gmail.com>: Subject: Re: VMS stand alone backup is what in MS Windows?C Message-ID: <1102345538.159703.164460@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>t  G Would someone be so kind as the answer the original question, i.e., howrF can I do the equivalent of a standalone backup under Windows?  I'm notB interested in decompression, but in doing a full backup of my hardG drive while Windows is doing as little as possible.  I have W98SE.  Who-F knows the best way to do a complete (/IMAGE) backup of my C drive even( while I'm up and running off C?  Thanks!   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2004 09:36:47 -0600n- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)c: Subject: Re: VMS stand alone backup is what in MS Windows?3 Message-ID: <+zDITVC3CVO6@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  f In article <1102345538.159703.164460@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Barry" <dysert@gmail.com> writes:I > Would someone be so kind as the answer the original question, i.e., howo  + Probably they would in a Windows newsgroup.E  D But here in comp.os.vms discussing other operating systems is likely* to result in replies that lead far afield.  D If you ask a direct technical question within the charter of the VMSD newsgroup, you will tend to get direct technical answers rather than1 industry strategy ramblings, or whatever you got.   H One would hope the same thing would be true in the Microsoft newsgroups.  H > can I do the equivalent of a standalone backup under Windows?  I'm notD > interested in decompression, but in doing a full backup of my hardI > drive while Windows is doing as little as possible.  I have W98SE.  WhoRH > knows the best way to do a complete (/IMAGE) backup of my C drive even* > while I'm up and running off C?  Thanks!   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2004 08:02:21 -0800o  From: "Barry" <dysert@gmail.com>: Subject: Re: VMS stand alone backup is what in MS Windows?B Message-ID: <1102345496.681926.64930@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  G Would someone be so kind as the answer the original question, i.e., how?F can I do the equivalent of a standalone backup under Windows?  I'm notB interested in decompression, but in doing a full backup of my hardG drive while Windows is doing as little as possible.  I have W98SE.  WhoGF knows the best way to do a complete (/IMAGE) backup of my C drive even( while I'm up and running off C?  Thanks!   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2004 10:29:20 -0600-- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)m: Subject: Re: VMS stand alone backup is what in MS Windows?3 Message-ID: <KEFbLobxp4jn@eisner.encompasserve.org>4  e In article <1102345496.681926.64930@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Barry" <dysert@gmail.com> writes:nI > Would someone be so kind as the answer the original question, i.e., how H > can I do the equivalent of a standalone backup under Windows?  I'm notD > interested in decompression, but in doing a full backup of my hardI > drive while Windows is doing as little as possible.  I have W98SE.  WhorH > knows the best way to do a complete (/IMAGE) backup of my C drive even* > while I'm up and running off C?  Thanks!   BI=2   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2004 10:23:51 -0800a From: deanw@rdrop.coml: Subject: Re: VMS stand alone backup is what in MS Windows?B Message-ID: <1102357431.023728.81960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Barry wrote:? > Would someone be so kind as the answer the original question,e: > i.e., how can I do the equivalent of a standalone backup > under Windows?  G Boot from a DOS floppy with a ZIP utility installed on it and zip it to C another partition or HD. Then, if you want it on a different media,r9 reboot to Windows and put the ZIP file where you want it.r   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2004 10:24:08 -0800i From: deanw@rdrop.comi: Subject: Re: VMS stand alone backup is what in MS Windows?B Message-ID: <1102357448.733987.83650@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Barry wrote:? > Would someone be so kind as the answer the original question, : > i.e., how can I do the equivalent of a standalone backup > under Windows?  G Boot from a DOS floppy with a ZIP utility installed on it and zip it tosC another partition or HD. Then, if you want it on a different media,i9 reboot to Windows and put the ZIP file where you want it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 19:28:04 +1100i4 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@transgrid.com.au>$ Subject: [Fwd: OT: HP and US dollar]/ Message-ID: <41B41814.5040300@transgrid.com.au>v  1 I don't think any of this affects HP's decisions.n  4 If they understood economics and marketing, well ...  9  From John Smith in another thread, isn't there only one h? under-performer?  Arnold S. was only gratuously given the name aH "Terminator" for a few films.  In real life Palmer, Curly and Carly are  the terminators.   Regards, Paddy  " -------- Original Message -------- Subject: OT: HP and US dollary% Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 01:32:23 -05008- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>n Organization: indexed  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come  C The US dollar has been losing ground against major currencies at anoD accelerated pace since early November. This can affect positively orD negatively major US corporations, depending on whether they are net 	 exportersp
 or importers.   I Does anyone know if HP is a net exporter ? Will its profits be positivelyaK affected by the lower USD ? Or is the imported value of components used for F both US and export markets greater than the total value of the export  market ?  J Are Alpha systems now assembled in the USA, or are there still some system3 assembly being done in England or other countries ?e  C It will be interesting to see if HP lowers its overseas prices and l
 whether USF prices will rise. HP can only be protected from currency fluctuations  for so long.  L If HP benefits significanly from devaluation of the USD, it may help to hideL underperforming units to Wall Street Casino analysts who might be happy with2 the total profit number and not really gid deeper.      G ***********************************************************************l  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedr> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and adviserB the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.-  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid  A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the x= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with 3C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usese> virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************I   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.677 ************************