1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 08 Dec 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 680       Contents:- Re: AlphaStation 200 4/233 does not power up.  Re: another Macro64 question Antispam features  Antispam features  Antispam features ? carly(tm): HP's Future All About Execution ....we can only hope C Re: carly(tm): HP's Future All About Execution ....we can only hope C Re: carly(tm): HP's Future All About Execution ....we can only hope ) Re: DEC Is Dead, Long Live DEC, the book. 2 Re: finding out what is installed on a system disk1 Re: FTP program connect to VMS client under linux  Re: How to read a fileheader2 Re: I'd rather wait a year for a superior product!2 Re: I'd rather wait a year for a superior product!2 Re: I'd rather wait a year for a superior product!2 Re: I'd rather wait a year for a superior product! Re: ldiq/ldil in Macro64 Re: News Server  Re: News Server , OT: Chinese now 3rd biggest PC manufacturers! Re: recherche serveur d'occasion. ; Re: Reinstalling DECwindows after losing it during upgrade? ; Re: Reinstalling DECwindows after losing it during upgrade? ( Re: Replacing shareable image routines ? Restricted account behavior..." Re: Restricted account behavior... Suggestion for DECW TPU/EVE  TK50 cartridge resurrection  TK50 cartridge resurrection  Re: TK50 cartridge resurrection  Re: TK50 cartridge resurrection  Re: Username for SSH1 Re: VMS stand alone backup is what in MS Windows?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 19:16:26 +0000 (UTC)7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) 6 Subject: Re: AlphaStation 200 4/233 does not power up.( Message-ID: <cp4via$mdv$1@pcls4.std.com>  $ Glenn Everhart <gce@gce.com> writes:   >Michael Moroney wrote:  >>  D >> VERY common for alphastation 200 power supplies to die like this.F >> The power supply comes on for a fraction of a second and then shutsF >> down (either due to a defective safety circuit, or a safety circuitG >> detecting a real problem).  I have two that died the same exact way. F >> One I replaced the power supply with a generic PC one, the other is >> still dead. >>  H >> The one I fixed (typing on it now) was a bit of a project.  I had to L >> replace the motherboard connectors as well as figure out what to do with K >> every single output, and make sure I got everything right as the PC and  K >> alphastation power supplies used entirely different color codes for the  M >> different voltages to prevent frying things (blue and yellow were reversed  >> for example, +/- 12 votes)   H >Could you post or let me have the pinouts anyhow? It could be handy forI >others not to have to experiment. (If my p/s goes, it won't help much in  >figuring that stuff out.)  H I knew I should have photographed/documented/written a web page on this.J I will have to look it up.  I do remember there were 4 6 wire plugs to theC motherboard, 2 for +3.3V and ground, one for +5, -5 and ground, one  for other voltages.  --   -Mike    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2004 13:29:16 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) % Subject: Re: another Macro64 question 3 Message-ID: <4HcPKdigUiXu@eisner.encompasserve.org>   } In article <Pine.LNX.4.44.0412061654320.32739-100000@frank.harvard.edu>, Chip Coldwell <coldwell@physics.harvard.edu> writes:  > H > This is probably a painfully stupid question, but here it goes anyway: > M > Suppose I have an externally defined symbol "foo".  I can declare it in an   > assembly module as >  > 	$LINKAGE_SECTION  > 	.EXTERNAL FOO >       In the linkage section, add:    BAR:	 .ADDRESS FOO      In the code section, use:         LDQ   Rx,BAR   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2004 11:15:50 -0800  From: "DeanW" <deanw@rdrop.com>  Subject: Antispam featuresC Message-ID: <1102446950.945989.180380@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > Actually, I want tarpitting,   Hear, hear!    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2004 11:19:19 -0800  From: "DeanW" <deanw@rdrop.com>  Subject: Antispam featuresC Message-ID: <1102447159.616297.198480@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > Actually, I want tarpitting,   Hear, hear!    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2004 12:02:03 -0800  From: "DeanW" <deanw@rdrop.com>  Subject: Antispam featuresC Message-ID: <1102447198.932514.303830@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > Actually, I want tarpitting,   Hear, hear!    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 16:41:28 -0500# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> H Subject: carly(tm): HP's Future All About Execution ....we can only hope, Message-ID: <G6adnfZXMqwVvivcRVn-tg@igs.net>  E It's amazing how much less compact a language Weasel is than English.   7 http://www.crn.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=55300072   ( Fiorina: HP's Future All About Execution     By Dan Neel and Steven Burke,  CRN    10:50 AM EST Tue. Dec. 07, 2004   L Hewlett-Packard Chairman and CEO Carly Fiorina said Tuesday that the companyE is finally where it wants to be in terms of its organizational model. G Speaking at the HP Security Analyst Meeting in Boston, Fiorina said the I transformation of HP, which began with its merger with Compaq Computer in E September 2001 and was followed by a string of acquisitions, has been I completed. The formation in May of HP's Customer Solutions Group, and the H combining of HP's global operations, in terms of "systems, processes andL people," made the transformation final, she said. All that's left now is forI HP to be able to perform with "consistency and discipline going forward," 
 Fiorina said.   I "Fundamentally, we now have completed the transformation of our operating L model and our operating structure. We now have arrived at the place where weL wanted to be," she said. "It's really now all about leveraging the portfolioJ we built for leadership in each of the markets we serve. To truly leverage8 the potential of this firm, it comes down to execution."  E In general, the gradual but inevitable trend toward all content being K transformed into some form of digital media presents the market opportunity  for HP, Fiorina said.   F "Our role is to accelerate this trend, and our role as well is to helpJ integrate the physical and the digital world. That is why we have made theK choices we have made around our portfolio. That's why we participate in the L consumer market, in the public sector market, in the small and medium[-size]H business market, as well as in business to business. It's why we believeK it's important to lead in imaging and printing, and computing, and services  and software."  J Fiorina said HP faced three key goals: improving current business, growing* current business and growing new business.  K Growth in existing customer accounts represented a particular challenge for J HP, she said. "Within the existing customer relationships we already have,I in most cases on average we only have 10 percent of their total spend, so D there is a big opportunity to leverage existing relationships," said Fiorina.  H Fiorina said HP would continue to improve its cost structure. "What thatF translates into is that we will always be looking at our workforce andF thinking about how to improve the productivity of our workforce, whichL includes reskilling, retraining [and] in some cases hiring from the outside.L It means making sure we have the right work in the right places, which meansJ in some case taking jobs out of certain locations and adding them in otherK locations. You'll see us eliminate some jobs and add people in other jobs," 
 Fiorina said.   F The fourth-quarter 2004 turnaround in profitability of HP's EnterpriseJ Servers and Storage unit from a third-quarter loss showed that the company@ had the discipline to execute on its future plans, Fiorina said.  L "It is now no longer about our potential. Our potential is clear," she said.: "It is all about leveraging that potential and executing."  D On the channel front, Mike Winkler, executive vice president of HP'sF Customer Solutions Group, said the company will grow sales through itsB partners as well as its direct-sales force. He pointed to HP's newI enterprise engagement model, which redraws the company's line in the sand C for enterprise accounts and hands over 250 accounts to the channel, , representing a $5 billion sales opportunity.  H The new model is part of a "more carefully partitioned" direct-sales andH channel structure, Winkler said. HP also has refined its sales model andI compensation to incent its sales force to sell higher-margin products and  solutions, he said.   L In fact, in the current fiscal year, HP tripled its number of sales reps andD managers with margin-based compensation and incentives, according toG Winkler. He said 15,000 salespeople and managers, or two-thirds of HP's I sales personnel, are now compensated on margin rather than on revenue. As A part of that effort, HP also is increasing the number of software I specialists worldwide by 20 percent in the first half of its fiscal year, J which comes on top of a 25 percent increase in U.S. storage specialists inK the last quarter. HP, too, aims to reduce its selling costs as a percentage " of revenue by 15 percent, he said.  D For the direct volume PC business, HP is providing new tools for itsL outbound and telesales force, Winkler said. The company also is implementingF a new "hunter/farmer" sales model that should yield a four-point gross) margin benefit in that business, he said.   G And as evidence of HP's success in partnering with systems integrators, L Winkler said that last year the company saw 51 percent year-over-year growthL with its top four global integrators: Accenture, BearingPoint, Capgemini andL Deloitte. He said HP's market share growth with integrators has come to someH degree at the expense of IBM, which was leading partner with all four ofH those integration firms before it acquired PWC Consulting. Now HP is the< leading partner in three of those integrators, Winkler said.   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 23:51:41 +0000 (UTC)$ From: schenkenberg@Encompasserve.orgL Subject: Re: carly(tm): HP's Future All About Execution ....we can only hope/ Message-ID: <cp5fmd$asv$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>   R In article <G6adnfZXMqwVvivcRVn-tg@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:F >It's amazing how much less compact a language Weasel is than English. > 8 >http://www.crn.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=55300072 > ) >Fiorina: HP's Future All About Execution   4 So when can we expect to see the execution of Carly?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 19:49:23 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> L Subject: Re: carly(tm): HP's Future All About Execution ....we can only hope, Message-ID: <41B64F8C.A9C24260@teksavvy.com>  % schenkenberg@Encompasserve.org wrote: + > >Fiorina: HP's Future All About Execution  > 6 > So when can we expect to see the execution of Carly?     LOL, ROTFL !!!!   E Carly's bragging about having completed the merger contrast with some K analysts' reports a couple weeks ago stating that Carly wasn't managing the L corporation well and have not really done the integration properly and woudl7 need some chief operting officer to manage the company.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Dec 2004 00:44:11 GMT ! From: Lee Witten <lw99@yahoo.com> 2 Subject: Re: DEC Is Dead, Long Live DEC, the book./ Message-ID: <Xns95B94ED4EA442nn48@199.125.85.9>   F My $0.02: No one was minding the store.  No one had any idea what was G really bringing in the profits, so they went with whatever the current  D industry buzz was.  Compare and contrast IBM and DEC.  It's a valid G comparison, because for a while DEC was the #2 computer company in the  J world.  While both did PCs, IBM made sure to keep protecting its in-house H products (s/3xx mainframe, as400 mini, etc) because they brought in the F profits, while DEC blindly went to PCs lock stock and barrel with the J infamous NT Affinity program.  At the time everyone could see that giving I your installed base to Microsoft was a non-starter, that is everyone but   DEC.   --lw--   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 20:59:47 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>; Subject: Re: finding out what is installed on a system disk + Message-ID: <41B66E22.7F81FB1E@comcast.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > b > In article <41B38D20.641D2FA4@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:3 > > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > K > >> I have only installed stuff via the menu from the layered-product CDs, 5 > >> so there shouldn't be anything strange going on.  > >>L > >> It would be nice if, when installing a product from the layered-productF > >> CDs, it would give an informational message if the product is notJ > >> already installed or if an older version is, and a warning if a newer" > >> version is already installed. > > L > > Depends. What are the criteria for those decisions? I believe that's the! > > root question you are asking.  > > K > > I doubt there is a DEFINITIVE approach, since there are so many ways to  > > "skin a cat".  > > I > > The contents of the SYS$SYSTEM path won't do since some folks like to - > > have third-party products kept elsewhere.  > , > You missed the part (above) where he said: > K > >> I have only installed stuff via the menu from the layered-product CDs, 5 > >> so there shouldn't be anything strange going on.   E Actually, no I didn't. I thought it brash to assume that just because @ software was installed using the menu on the CD that the install2 procedures and implementation were all consistent.  H ...unless you're aware of a(n undocumented?) install history facility in the CD menus...?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2004 13:37:20 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) : Subject: Re: FTP program connect to VMS client under linux3 Message-ID: <8zBAvLA1V8Zy@eisner.encompasserve.org>   y In article <pan.2004.12.07.06.52.13.801765@remove.cc.usu.edu>, Luc The Perverse <sll_NOSPAM_zm@remove.cc.usu.edu> writes:   H > Problem - The location that is hosting my webpage runs on VMS and usesK > some unusual protocals.  It calls itself FTP, but anything you can't pull 0 > up in mozilla, doesn't classify in my book.     C    FTP does not include any standard that references mozilla.  Your B    tool is probably breaking the stanard for FTP that says LIST isE    for human readable output and NLST is for machine readable output.   G    This has nothing to do with the underlying protocol and is the fault 1    of the tool you are using.  Get a better tool.   F    Also, be darn sure your tool knows the difference between uploadingD    in binary and ASCII.  Most web browsers try to figure this out by    file extension.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2004 12:33:54 -0800 ! From: "OHM62" <ohm62@hotmail.com> % Subject: Re: How to read a fileheader C Message-ID: <1102451633.982114.159310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   , Anyone used IMG$DECODE_IHD() on Itanium yet?  C The symbol is there, on OpenVMS V8.2 Itanium, but it systematically E returns the following error, although ANALYZE/IMAGE on the considered  image works alright:  E IMG%IMGACT-F-NOT_I64, image is not an HP OpenVMS Industry Standard 64  image     	 Any idea?    Thanks,    -- OHM.        Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:
 > Paul wrote: F > > Can anybody tell me how I can read the image header's "image name" using a  > > tool like cobol of bliss. E > > With analyze/image I can find the "image name" of an image in the  "ImageA > > Identification Information" of the image header. I need to be D > > able to read the "image name" from the image header because that "image@ > > name" can be different from the imagename that is shown when listing the  > > directory. >  > Try look at: >   > ftp://ftp.hhs.dk/pub/vms/misc/+ > http://www.hhs.dk/anonymous/pub/vms/misc/  >=20 > and look for *IMAGEINFO*.* ! >=20 > Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2004 13:42:04 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ; Subject: Re: I'd rather wait a year for a superior product! 3 Message-ID: <f$f3D3EOK$7c@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <2vltd.42276$Qv5.106@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes: > O > I think it makes sense to stop pouring development dollars into making HP-UX  O > more proprietary.  HP-UX should be HP's supported Linux and they should push  H > OpenVMS and NSK as their proprietary advantages over Solaris, AIX etc.  H    Stricktly speaking HP-UX is not a Linux.  It uses a BSD kernel and an8    SVID interface, not a Linux kernal and gnu interface.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2004 16:03:09 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ; Subject: Re: I'd rather wait a year for a superior product! 3 Message-ID: <H8uIZXgDMuKD@eisner.encompasserve.org>   K In article <87r7m2hvit.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, prep@prep.synonet.com writes: 5 > Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes:  > B >> If you look into this in more depth, you'll find that there areB >> significant capabilities that VMS, NonStop, and HP-UX have thatD >> Linux does not have (and is not likely to gain any time soon) and  >> some that it will never have. > C > Well, that just took a beating. Oracle have anounced that the New D > way is Oracle on a Dell box running Linux. Sun and HPUS are `old'.  C After spending $40,000 on an Oracle license, I don't understand why " someone would go cheap on the box.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2004 14:18:32 -0800 ' From: "DL Phillips" <whohe@whoever.com> ; Subject: Re: I'd rather wait a year for a superior product! B Message-ID: <1102457912.566914.20390@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:E > In article <87r7m2hvit.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, prep@prep.synonet.com  writes: 7 > > Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes:  > > D > >> If you look into this in more depth, you'll find that there areD > >> significant capabilities that VMS, NonStop, and HP-UX have thatF > >> Linux does not have (and is not likely to gain any time soon) and" > >> some that it will never have. > > E > > Well, that just took a beating. Oracle have anounced that the New F > > way is Oracle on a Dell box running Linux. Sun and HPUS are `old'. > E > After spending $40,000 on an Oracle license, I don't understand why $ > someone would go cheap on the box.  8 From: < http://www.oracle.com/solutions/mid/index.html >   ++= Oracle Database 10g Standard Edition One-Easy to Buy, Easy to  Install, Easy to Use  F Get the world's most popular database priced for your business. OracleG Database 10g Standard Edition One is available for US$149 per user with D Named User Plus Licensing (minimum five users US$745). Make the mostG efficient use of your hardware and IT resources, deliver response times A your users demand, reduce downtime, secure for your business, and 8 invest in technology that will grow with as you do. ..." ++    Doug   The times, they are a-changin.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2004 17:30:27 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ; Subject: Re: I'd rather wait a year for a superior product! 3 Message-ID: <wGfHT36N2erK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <1102457912.566914.20390@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "DL Phillips" <whohe@whoever.com> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote:F >> In article <87r7m2hvit.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, prep@prep.synonet.com	 > writes: 8 >> > Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes: >> >E >> >> If you look into this in more depth, you'll find that there are E >> >> significant capabilities that VMS, NonStop, and HP-UX have that G >> >> Linux does not have (and is not likely to gain any time soon) and # >> >> some that it will never have.  >> >F >> > Well, that just took a beating. Oracle have anounced that the NewG >> > way is Oracle on a Dell box running Linux. Sun and HPUS are `old'.  >>F >> After spending $40,000 on an Oracle license, I don't understand why% >> someone would go cheap on the box.  > : > From: < http://www.oracle.com/solutions/mid/index.html > >  > ++? > Oracle Database 10g Standard Edition One-Easy to Buy, Easy to  > Install, Easy to Use > H > Get the world's most popular database priced for your business. OracleI > Database 10g Standard Edition One is available for US$149 per user with F > Named User Plus Licensing (minimum five users US$745). Make the mostI > efficient use of your hardware and IT resources, deliver response times C > your users demand, reduce downtime, secure for your business, and : > invest in technology that will grow with as you do. ..."  D I was under the impression that the per-user licensing did not applyC to Oracle Rdb and thus even for Oracle Classic it was missing heavy C integrity features one expects if one is bothering to consider VMS.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2004 14:23:37 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ! Subject: Re: ldiq/ldil in Macro64 3 Message-ID: <gjDFrqZuLSoK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   } In article <Pine.LNX.4.44.0412061441420.31273-100000@frank.harvard.edu>, Chip Coldwell <coldwell@physics.harvard.edu> writes:  > L > The Digital Unix/OSF1/Tru64 Alpha assembler provides ldil (load immediate L > longword) and ldiq (load immediate quadword) macros for loading constants K > into registers.  I took a peak as the gas sources (the GNU assembler for  J > Alpha also provides these macros) and the implementation in machine ops G > looks pretty gnarly.  Does MACRO64 provide anything similar to these  	 > macros?   G    OK, here's what I use, and a little sample of them in use.  You can, G    of course, use a different base register, but these macros do assume     you are using one.    the macros:            .macro   ldil,rx,im,?l1          $linkage_section l1:     .long   im         $code_section            ldl      rx,l1
         .endm            .macro   ldiq,rx,im,?l1          $linkage_section l1:     .quad   im         $code_section            ldq      rx,l1
         .endm      in use:   -         $routine A, kind=stack, saved_regs=r2            $code_section   #         ; establish a base register          mov     r27,r2         .base   r2,$LS  %         ldiq    r1,^xfeed1ee1beed0002            ldil    r3,^Xdeadface            mov     #1,r0            $return              $end_routine A           .end A   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 12:31:31 -0800 ! From: Fred Bach <music@triumf.ca>  Subject: Re: News Server( Message-ID: <41B61323.2070402@triumf.ca>  B    I used to support VNEWS here. Frequently had to edit, recompileD    and link it when some idiot created newsgroups with insanely longB    names (probably designed to blow up newsreaders).  VNEWS worked    just fine under VAX VMS.      from the VNEWS.DOC file:   > + >                                     VNEWS > >                 Version 1.4 User Documentation (20-Jun-1991) > 9 >         John "Fast-Eddie" McMahon (mcmahon@tgv.com) and 5 >         Joel "M-for-Vnews" Snyder (jms@arizona.edu) G >         [Based on the original document written by an unknown person]  >  > 0.0 DISCLAIMER > E >            "Remember Kids, This Is Done By Trained Professionals... 5 >                            Don't Try This At Home!"  >         	    [snip]    > 1.0 INTRODUCTION > F > VNews is a native VMS news reading client that uses the network newsF > transport protocol to access news stored on a remote server.  It wasC > written by Michael Dorl at the Madison Academic Computing Center, H > University of Wisconsin as a personal project to gain familiarity with@ > The Wollongong WIN/VX program interface to the TCP/IP network.A >                                                                   	    [snip]   <    The FORTRAN sources were free.  I likely still have them.5    The notes say Version 1.50 compiled for Alpha VMS.   7    What ever happened to VNEWS?  It's not on your list.   6   .. fred bach   music@triumf.ca  Opinions are my own.     Keith Cayemberg wrote:   > Volker Englisch wrote: >  >> Hi, >>K >> is there any (free) newsserver software that runs on VMS, like "innd" on 
 >> unices? >>	 >> Volker  >> >  > Hi Volker, > E > here is my complete URL collection for this topic, some free, some  
 > commercial.  >  > 6 > _OpenVMS News Readers and Servers_ (NNTP) - Forum SW >  > J > Alternatives to INN - includes an interesting summary of NNTP SW for VMS0 > http://www.mibsoftware.com/userkt/inn/0053.htm > 2 > Software List - News Reader (NNTP based) for VMS: > http://ejo.univ-lyon1.fr/systems/vms/news/softwares.list >  > 5 > ANU-News - Documentation and Distribution Home Page  > http://www.ijs.si/anu-news/  > L > ANU-News - Implementing ANU-NEWS on Process Software's TCPware for VAX/VMS> > http://www.process.com/techsupport/tcpware/faqs/news001.html >  > ANU-News - funet Download 2 > http://www.funet.fi/pub/vms/networking/anu-news/ > ' > ANU-News - mail extraction software - B > Yezerski Roper's software to interface with the ANU news package( > http://www.yrl.co.uk/free/extmail.html > @ > Anu-news Newsgroup - www.news2mail.com: News.Software.Anu-news4 > VMS Usenet software from Australian National Univ.6 > http://www.news2mail.com/news/software/anu-news.html >  > 8 > DECThreads NNTP Server for OpenVMS - Ruslan R. Laishev+ > http://starlet.deltatel.ru/~laishev/nntp/  >  >  > DNews - NetWin Products  > http://netwinsite.com/ > & > DNews -- Usenet News Server Software! > http://netwinsite.com/dnews.htm  >  > DNews - Download FilesC > http://public.planetmirror.com/pub/netwinsite/dnews/download2.htm  >  > DNews - Manual Index+ > http://www.opus1.com/www/dnews/manual.htm  >  > DNews - Planet Mirror : > http://public.planetmirror.com/pub/netwinsite/dnews/vms/ >  >  > Fast Newsreader (FNEWS) 3 > http://www-ang.kfunigraz.ac.at/~binder/fnews.html  > 9 > Fast Newsreader (FNEWS) - ANNOUNCING FNEWS 2.0 released I > http://scout.wisc.edu/Projects/PastProjects/NH/95-03/95-03-27/0040.html  > @ > Fast Newsreader (FNEWS) - DECUS Library (V00562) - DescriptionH > http://www.decus.org/encompass/libcatalog/description_html/v00562.html > @ > Fast Newsreader (FNEWS) - DECUS Library (V00562) - FTP Archive' > ftp://ftp.encompassus.org/lib/v00562/  >  > > > MXRN - DECwindows Motif News Reader - OpenVMS Freeware CD v65 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware60/mxrn/  >  > ( > newsrdr - Acorn Software DECUS Archive) > http://acornsw.com:9081/vs0153/newsrdr/  > 8 > NEWSRDR - MadGoat NNTP client reader for Usenet news - > Hunter Goatley's FILESERV > > http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?NEWSRDR >  > ' > Opus One Software - VNEWS news reader , > http://www.opus1.com/o/software_vnews.html > + > Opus One - OpenVMS Business Partner Brief 7 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/partners/opus-one/index.htm  >  > . > slrn - NNTP-based newsreader - freshmeat.net% > http://freshmeat.net/projects/slrn/  >  > slrn newsreader - sourceforge  > http://slrn.sourceforge.net/ > ! > slrn newsreader - Documentation # > http://slrn.sourceforge.net/docs/  >  > slrn newsreader - Download* > http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/slrn/ >  > slrn newsreader - Manual% > http://slrn.sourceforge.net/manual/  >  > 	 > Cheers!  > Keith Cayemberg + > IBM Business Services - Hannover, Germany    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 21:46:27 +0100 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> Subject: Re: News ServerB Message-ID: <41b616a4$0$29848$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>   Fred Bach wrote:   > C >   I used to support VNEWS here. Frequently had to edit, recompile E >   and link it when some idiot created newsgroups with insanely long C >   names (probably designed to blow up newsreaders).  VNEWS worked  >   just fine under VAX VMS. >  >  from the VNEWS.DOC file:  >  >>, >>                                     VNEWS? >>                 Version 1.4 User Documentation (20-Jun-1991)  >>: >>         John "Fast-Eddie" McMahon (mcmahon@tgv.com) and6 >>         Joel "M-for-Vnews" Snyder (jms@arizona.edu)H >>         [Based on the original document written by an unknown person] >> >> 0.0 DISCLAIMER  >>F >>            "Remember Kids, This Is Done By Trained Professionals...6 >>                            Don't Try This At Home!"	 >>         >  > 
 >   [snip] >  >> 1.0 INTRODUCTION  >>G >> VNews is a native VMS news reading client that uses the network news G >> transport protocol to access news stored on a remote server.  It was D >> written by Michael Dorl at the Madison Academic Computing Center,I >> University of Wisconsin as a personal project to gain familiarity with A >> The Wollongong WIN/VX program interface to the TCP/IP network. B >>                                                                 >  > 
 >   [snip] > = >   The FORTRAN sources were free.  I likely still have them. 6 >   The notes say Version 1.50 compiled for Alpha VMS. > 8 >   What ever happened to VNEWS?  It's not on your list. > 7 >  .. fred bach   music@triumf.ca  Opinions are my own.  >   6 Isn't the VNEWS I listed at Opus One the same package?  % Opus One Software - VNEWS news reader * http://www.opus1.com/o/software_vnews.html  B (note: my URL titles are only to differentiate web sources and notF to claim authorship or ownership by the stated organisation or person)   Cheers!    Keith Cayemberg    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 01:10:29 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 5 Subject: OT: Chinese now 3rd biggest PC manufacturers , Message-ID: <41B69AC1.3B5D415A@teksavvy.com>  N It is now official, Lenovo has gotten its hands on IBM's PC business (with IBM still holding 18% of it).   @ This makes Lenovo the 3rd biggest PC manufacturer in the world.   G Carly has admitted that she had discussed with the board, on 3 separate ! occasions, the breaking of of HP.   G My gut tells me that it won't be long before the chinese become the 2nd ) biggest PC manufacturer, pushing HP down.   N My long held belief that PC manufacturing would follow calculators, TV etc and
 move to asia.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 19:41:16 -0500% From: "DAVID TURNER" <DAVID@HPAQ.NET> * Subject: Re: recherche serveur d'occasion.0 Message-ID: <10rcj0kddm5247f@news.supernews.com>   Cher ?A Nous sommes fournisseur d'equipments d'occasion et reconditionees H En stock il nous reste plusieurs modeles, au voltage necessaire d'europe   DS10 466 et 617  DS10L 466 et 617	 DS15 1Ghz     + Je peux faire un offre speciale sur le DS15      DS15 avec license VMS Base 1Ghz CPU 2 10.100 Ethernet ! Ultra 3 SCSI sur la carte logique  Disques dure de 36GB x 2   Totale $7995     --   Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St Suite 180  Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 4476622 Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com     ( "ZoummuoZ" <rex@tft.de> wrote in message, news:cll65n$8og$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net...L > Je suis a la recherche d'une machine alpha type ds10, 15 ou 20 pour palier  J > un hypothtique arrt de mon serveur actuel. Un ds20, 1Go, 4Mo de cache, > UltraSCSI160. B > Mon appli sera change dans un ou deux an et ils seront surement
 reproposs > sur ce forum ;-).  >  > Merci  tous.  > Salutations. >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 20:26:20 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) D Subject: Re: Reinstalling DECwindows after losing it during upgrade?2 Message-ID: <Mlotd.4031$Ok2.3035@news.cpqcorp.net>  \ In article <41B60173.3FF682DE@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  J >Charlie Hammond wrote from his balcony overlooking a florida golf course:I                             `-------------------------------------------' " Say what!? --------------------'  *                                     ?????? No Way!     Q >> On Alpha and I64, there is no supported way to add the DECwindows support bits  >> except by booting the CD.   > 7 >can't one just  SET DEF to the CD and start the menu ?    No.   @ It will either die an ignoble (sp?) death or provide a test caseK for restoring your backup.  Hopefully the former, but I'm not sure which.  uM The the procedure that implements the CD menu is neither tested nor expected lK to run except when booted from the CD.  In any other environment results ofHI running it are undefined.  (Heck, even "running it" is undefined.  How do  you "start the menu"?)  L >Since installing DECW support files doesn't really collide with the runningN >system (just adds files), what would fail if you tried to install it from the3 >CD with the target disk being the running system ?r  N There is NO SUPPORTED way (on Alpha and I64) to install just the DECW support B files, except as part of a PRODUCT INSTALL or PRODUCT RECONFIGURE.I Without futher study, I cannot think of an UNsupported way that would notc6 be a lot more work, and a lot less certain of success.  E Well, you might get a PRODUCT RECONFIGURE with /SOURCE pointed at thedD proper directory on the CD to work, but I'm not sure and do NOT haveB time to test it.  I suggest using the SUPPORTED way.  Boot the CD.  I (One of the subtle danger of using unsported installation methods it thatrI even if they appear to work, they can and do leave things in such a staterI that future installations/upgrades may not work correctly.  Please excuseSG me for sounding a bit like Steve Hoffman, but "unsupported" means we do-J NOT know what the heck will happen, so... You are on your own!  If you areE "playing" with a standalone test system, this can be fun.  If it is a/B production system... Well, the word "irresponsible" comes to mind. No offense intended.).   -- iJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 18:07:35 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>hD Subject: Re: Reinstalling DECwindows after losing it during upgrade?, Message-ID: <41B637B6.973918F4@teksavvy.com>   Charlie Hammond wrote:N > The the procedure that implements the CD menu is neither tested nor expected( > to run except when booted from the CD.  M Ok, is that similar to standalone backup on VAX where it is built to run on aeN special slimmed down version of the kernel and running it on a real VMS system has unpredictable results ?r  O > There is NO SUPPORTED way (on Alpha and I64) to install just the DECW supportaD > files, except as part of a PRODUCT INSTALL or PRODUCT RECONFIGURE.  F Ok, then, does the menu system of the CD make use of the standard PCSI "product" command and images ? t  K > Without futher study, I cannot think of an UNsupported way that would not 8 > be a lot more work, and a lot less certain of success.  M I am just trying to figure out why an install that should be possible without-J a reboot would require reboot to ened begin installation on alpha. One canI PRODUCT INSTALL many products on VMS without needing to boot from the CD.o  I > me for sounding a bit like Steve Hoffman, but "unsupported" means we doc+ > NOT know what the heck will happen, so...f    L Shirley the guy who wrote it (not meaning to imply that his name is Shirley)N would have some idea. If it is a standard PCSI kit, why shouldn't it be usable' from the fully booted PRODUCT command ?f   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 00:04:38 -0500O- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>e1 Subject: Re: Replacing shareable image routines ?e1 Message-ID: <E7WdnTXgp_f1FivcRVn-pA@adelphia.com>-   JF Mezei wrote: O > Lets say there is function bake$cake in a system provided shareable image andt5 > I want to update it to better handle its functions.1 > N > If I create my own bake$cake function, are there magic tricks when I like itJ > into my own shareable image to make my bake$cake take precedent over theK > system provided one without the linker complaining about multiply definede > symbols ?0  I At the binary level you need to replace the entire shared image with one :% that had compatible transfer vectors.r  N > In practical terms, I'd like to compile some of the Motif 2.3 code/functionsP > to override the ancient functions on VAX-VMS. I know I can't compile the wholeL > thing due to the even more ancient Xlib on VAX, but I might be able to getJ > some of the modern functionality up, which would allow easier porting of > modern apps to VMS.0 > P > So I'd want my own alternate but partial motif shareable image to replace onlyJ > some of the functions in the DEC provided Motif shareable image. Is that > possible ?  C You do not need to replace the image, you only need to set up some  A macros to cause your routines to be called instead of the system r" routines that you want to replace.  C Just make sure that you assign unique public symbol names for your , replacement routines.r  H This is a standard procedure on many open source projects to get around 7 the differences in the many platforms that they run on.    -Johng wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyo   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2004 12:33:39 -0800e From: claudevms@attbi.com ' Subject: Restricted account behavior...nC Message-ID: <1102451619.814537.249360@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Hi!,     VMS version:  6.2h LANGUAGE:     FORTRANl RTL     :     LIB$DELETE_FILEy VMS Account Flag: Restricted  > A simple FORTRAN program calls lib$delete_file as shown below:   <snip>7 filename = 'MONGO::DISK$PROJ:[XXX.PROJ.CCC]AFILE.DAT;1' ' len = str$trim(filename, filename, len)l, delete_sts = lib$delet_file(filename(1:len))  7 filename = 'IRISH::DISK$PROJ:[XXX.PROJ.CCC]AFILE.DAT;1' ' len = str$trim(filename, filename, len)d, delete_sts = lib$delet_file(filename(1:len))  8 filename = 'LITTLE::DISK$PROJ:[XXX.PROJ.CCC]AFILE.DAT;1'' len = str$trim(filename, filename, len) , delete_sts = lib$delet_file(filename(1:len))   <snip>  A A status of 114730 is returned for all three deletes. This is theeG RMS$_FND error status. MONGO and IRISH are not online so I would expectoD the status above. Node LITTLE is where the program is executing. The2 spooky thing is the file gets deleted on LITTLE!!!  B In one test where LITTLE goes first its delete operation returns a? status of 98962 or RMS$_FNF. The file gets deleted on LITTLE!!!h  G When the same code executes out of the same account with the restricteds6 flag turned off the delete operation on LITTLE results in a status of 1 or SS$_NORMAL.r  E Further testing calling user error and user success procedures resulto; in only the error procedure being activated and it reportedc rms_sts 114730  rms_stv 8436   (DECnet LINKEXIT)      0 Why does the restricted account behave this way? Thanks in advance,  	 ClaudeVMSe   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 18:12:24 -0500a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: Re: Restricted account behavior...s, Message-ID: <41B638D7.DABC5832@teksavvy.com>  : > filename = 'LITTLE::DISK$PROJ:[XXX.PROJ.CCC]AFILE.DAT;1') > len = str$trim(filename, filename, len)n. > delete_sts = lib$delet_file(filename(1:len))  I > When the same code executes out of the same account with the restrictedk8 > flag turned off the delete operation on LITTLE results! > in a status of 1 or SS$_NORMAL.t    D When you specify a node name, the delete operation triggers a DECNETM connection to the node, complete with proxy processing etc. If the account isoN restricted, it may not have the ability to  accept a GAL process being created under its own username.q  M Try to specify a username/passowrd combination (eg: LITTE"user pass"::DISK...nM ) which point to a user which does not have the restricted flag. This way youcF can test to see if the restricted user is allowed to initiate a decnet' connection to an unrestricted username.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 23:15:59 -0500c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>i$ Subject: Suggestion for DECW TPU/EVE, Message-ID: <41B67FF2.EF223B31@teksavvy.com>  K I just discovered the ability to just highlight a file name on a decterm oreH fileview, and in an existing TPU windows, use the "open selected" and it) quickly switches to the file yo selected.   G Pretty neat. (You don't neet to actually use the "COPY" menu functions.o  N However, what would be even neater is to have a little box on the window whereI you could drag a filename to it and TPU would then automatically open it.e) Would make it faster and less cumbersome.o   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2004 11:04:00 -0800a From: jordan@ccs4vms.com$ Subject: TK50 cartridge resurrectionC Message-ID: <1102446240.646592.122270@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,  C I was just handed a box of old distribution TK50s and told to 'dealaB with them'.  That translates to pitch them (per the bosses), but I> wanted to see if I could recover/archive their contents first.G Probably will never need them, but I'll never be able to get this stuffc again if I don't save it now.i  B Most of the tapes are from 1988 through 1992 and have been sittingC untouched (in office conditions) since that time.  I have a pair ofeE VAXen and one Alpha with TZ30 drives attached (no TK50s).  All drivest- are being cleaned prior to reading each tape.k  E So far I've only managed to recover all the files from one tape.  TheoG others either stop with hard parity errors, or a fatal drive error.  In,D the former case, the tape will unload from the front button.  In theD latter, the tape winds itself all the way onto the takeup spool, allD the lights flash, and the drive will not recover/unload even after aG bus reset or power cycle, so the tape has to be manually rewound (loadsw of fun).  G Sometimes a retry of a parity error tape will read further, sometimes a ? rerun will end up with the fatal drive error and manual rewind.r  F I've read about various methods of reading old magtapes, like the ovenC treatment.  Are any of these applicable to TK50 cartridges?  Please7C note that there is no (zero, zilch) budget for this so professional G services are right out; I'm the only one who sees any possible value ino the data being saved.$   Thanks for any info...   Rich   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2004 11:03:14 -0800o From: jordan@ccs4vms.com$ Subject: TK50 cartridge resurrectionC Message-ID: <1102446194.015224.218070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>I  C I was just handed a box of old distribution TK50s and told to 'dealaB with them'.  That translates to pitch them (per the bosses), but I> wanted to see if I could recover/archive their contents first.G Probably will never need them, but I'll never be able to get this stuffl again if I don't save it now.l  B Most of the tapes are from 1988 through 1992 and have been sittingC untouched (in office conditions) since that time.  I have a pair of E VAXen and one Alpha with TZ30 drives attached (no TK50s).  All drivesR- are being cleaned prior to reading each tape.p  E So far I've only managed to recover all the files from one tape.  TheoG others either stop with hard parity errors, or a fatal drive error.  IneE the former case,  the tape will unload from the front button.  In theoD latter, the tape winds itself all the way onto the takeup spool, allD the lights flash, and the drive will not recover/unload even after aF bus reset or power cycle, so the tape has to be manually rewound (load of fun).  G Sometimes a retry of a parity error tape will read further, sometimes ad? rerun will end up with the fatal drive error and manual rewind.h  F I've read about various methods of reading old magtapes, like the ovenC treatment.  Are any of these applicable to TK50 cartridges?  PleaseuC note that there is no (zero, zilch) budget for this so professionaleG services are right out; I'm the only one who sees any possible value ine the data being saved.h   Thanks for any info...   Rich   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 17:55:24 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>i( Subject: Re: TK50 cartridge resurrection, Message-ID: <41B634DC.3BB116F9@teksavvy.com>   jordan@ccs4vms.com wrote:-H > I've read about various methods of reading old magtapes, like the oven? > treatment.  Are any of these applicable to TK50 cartridges?  o  L There is a utility calles VMSTPCE (Signed by Glen Everhart) which reads dead tapes despite errors.c  N I think it is on some f the freeware of on some server somewhere. If you can'tN find it, send me an email and I might be able to send you the vax copy I have.) (it also seems to have alpha executables)y  K Another option is to send them to a friend to see if their drive might have>I more success. But I guess the postal service involves having some kind ofu budget :-(  :-(w   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 23:57:33 -0500a- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>f( Subject: Re: TK50 cartridge resurrection1 Message-ID: <Pr2dnevpxIUjFCvcRVn-tA@adelphia.com>o   jordan@ccs4vms.com wrote:sE > I was just handed a box of old distribution TK50s and told to 'dealD > with them'.  <snip> > D > Most of the tapes are from 1988 through 1992 and have been sittingE > untouched (in office conditions) since that time.  I have a pair ofdG > VAXen and one Alpha with TZ30 drives attached (no TK50s).  All drives / > are being cleaned prior to reading each tape.a  L Are you sure that the tapes were recorded in TK50 mode instead of TK70 mode?  H Nothing stops recording an uninitialized TK50 tape in a TK70 drive, and G some third party suppliers of the media on their public web sites show i' that they used the same media for both.e  E Now if you put an TK70 formatted cartridge in a TK50 drive (possibly hH TZ30 drive), and try to write on it, the drive will spend about an hour G trying to write on the drive, and then fail with an error, leaving the e) media totally unusable until bulk erased.n  G > So far I've only managed to recover all the files from one tape.  The I > others either stop with hard parity errors, or a fatal drive error.  In-F > the former case, the tape will unload from the front button.  In theF > latter, the tape winds itself all the way onto the takeup spool, allF > the lights flash, and the drive will not recover/unload even after aI > bus reset or power cycle, so the tape has to be manually rewound (loads.
 > of fun).  < Basically that usually means that the tape is unrecoverable.  I > Sometimes a retry of a parity error tape will read further, sometimes aoA > rerun will end up with the fatal drive error and manual rewind.p  I The TK50/70 tapes have one track that is a format track.  It is used for lJ positioning.  The data exists at multiple offsets on the tape in 4 passes.  H > I've read about various methods of reading old magtapes, like the oven= > treatment.  Are any of these applicable to TK50 cartridges?d   No.t  I If you lose the control track you have lost the ability to read at least a 3/4ths of the TK 50/70 tape.  I In addition, it has been posted previously here and in other places that AG the microcode on the tape drive does not allow reading beyond an error.   F The professional recovery shops apparently have special microcode and  modified drives.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlye   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 21:03:44 -0600e2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Username for SSHi+ Message-ID: <41B66F0F.EB519573@comcast.net>w   Denis Holvoet wrote: > * > My company uses "$" in OpenVMS Username.   Not recommended.  F Among the many reasons, an ISO-9660 filename cannot contain a "$"; so,E naming a file using the username and later archiving is using MKISOFSe# (for example) would be problematic.   G "$" in usernames, filenames and/or extensions, logical names, directorys5 names, etc. is usually reserved unto VMS Engineering.o   -- a David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:t" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/:   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 22:01:44 -0600=/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> : Subject: Re: VMS stand alone backup is what in MS Windows?2 Message-ID: <41B67CA8.3030103@applied-synergy.com>   John Laird wrote:u3 > On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 15:47:00 -0600, Chris Scheersu$ > <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote: >  >  >>Barry wrote: >> >>J >>>Would someone be so kind as the answer the original question, i.e., howI >>>can I do the equivalent of a standalone backup under Windows?  I'm notdE >>>interested in decompression, but in doing a full backup of my harduJ >>>drive while Windows is doing as little as possible.  I have W98SE.  WhoI >>>knows the best way to do a complete (/IMAGE) backup of my C drive evenL+ >>>while I'm up and running off C?  Thanks!n >>>c >>< >>Windows does not have the equivalent of standalone backup. >  > L > It certainly doesn't ;-)  Until such time as it ever addresses this issue,N > instead of the laughable notion that reinstalling Windows is the way to cureJ > all ills, I suspect many people will refuse to drop the "toy o/s" jibes. > L > However, all is not lost, especially for Win98 users.  I have successfullyK > cloned partitions (some bootable) onto new and larger disks using nothing L > more complex than FDISK, FORMAT and XCOPY32.  As disks are so cheap, it isL > not worth forking out for any commercial solutions (many of which cost theD > equivalent of 160Gb of storage).  This will work for FAT and FAT32J > partitions.  Creating a boot-disk is not too onerous, but ready-made andF > improved ones can easily be found at http://www.bootdisk.com  In allE > honesty, a cloned disk is a much better way of having a backup than-I > attempting to recover individual files, folders and registries by hand.h; > Don't try to backup a running system in this way, though.y > N > Once you move to XP, things get more difficult.  Add NTFS and you are up theK > proverbial creek.  Copying a bootable XP system on a FAT32 partition onlyoL > worked for me if I actually did a fresh install onto it and then overwroteN > the files (but not the folders) with XCOPY32 - there is something in XP thatN > involves knowledge of folder locations, I suspect.  Maybe someone knows of aJ > genuine block-for-block partition copying utility ?  That ought to work.    A That is why I suggested Ghost or Partition Magic.  They can copy k& partitions so that the copy will work.  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------d$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  B Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com    Fax: 817-237-3074   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.680 ************************