1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 20 Dec 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 705       Contents:= Re: alpha team and tukwila cancelled ... itanium done for ... = Re: alpha team and tukwila cancelled ... itanium done for ... = Re: alpha team and tukwila cancelled ... itanium done for ...  Re: HP exodus to Intel Re: HP exodus to Intel Re: HP exodus to Intel Re: HP exodus to Intel Re: HP exodus to Intel Re: HP exodus to Intel Re: HP exodus to Intel Re: HP exodus to Intel Re: HP exodus to Intel) Re: HP pulls out of IA64 chip development # Information concerning VCB02 driver ' Re: Information concerning VCB02 driver # Installing and running Audit Server ' Re: Installing and running Audit Server   Re: New Features in OpenVMS V8.2  Re: New Features in OpenVMS V8.2! Re: Rack mount hardware standards # Receiving another user's broadcasts ' Re: Receiving another user's broadcasts ' Re: Receiving another user's broadcasts  Re: reverse address translation  Re: reverse address translation  Re: reverse address translation  Standard Deviation tick, tick, tick Re: tick, tick, tick Re: tick, tick, tick Re: tick, tick, tick Re: tick, tick, tick Re: tick, tick, tick RE: tick, tick, tick Re: tick, tick, tick Re: tick, tick, tick Re: Time to revive Emerald?  Re: Time to revive Emerald?  Re: Time to revive Emerald?  Re: Time to revive Emerald?  Re: Time to revive Emerald?  Re: Time to revive Emerald?  Yet another Inquirer article Re: [Fwd: failure notice] @ Re: [Nomex on]: Security research suggests Linux has fewer flaws  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 07:29:01 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)F Subject: Re: alpha team and tukwila cancelled ... itanium done for ...3 Message-ID: <5PWyupRmrqVl@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <1103344305.833761.99920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes:+ > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20286  >   M Lesson #154: When Bob loses his faith, it's time to switch to another OS. :-)    Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       7 Microsoft: The Standard Oil Company of the 21st century    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 05:55:19 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com F Subject: Re: alpha team and tukwila cancelled ... itanium done for ...C Message-ID: <1103550919.865394.201880@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   $ no, it's time to port vms to amd ...   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 05:56:40 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com F Subject: Re: alpha team and tukwila cancelled ... itanium done for ...C Message-ID: <1103551000.580836.101380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   A or its time to hire back the alpha team and restart work on alpha = ev8 immediately ... and put ev79 into production immediately! 3 Or sell vms to someone that will do one of the two!    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 07:59:31 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) Subject: Re: HP exodus to Intel 6 Message-ID: <00A3C9AF.3EFF8621@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  R In article <yd-dneZTlPtPiVvcRVn-rw@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > I >I'm also quite sure that somewhere in Palo Alto there is a pixie, who in B >Cromwell-like thinking is musing "Will someone not rid me of this >troublesome operating system?"    ITYM "Henry II".  I (Acto anecdotage.com: [According to the Dictionary of National Biography, I Henry's actual complaint was longer: "What a parcel of fools and dastards H have I nourished in my house that not one of them will avenge me of thisG one upstart clerk!"]  "Fools and dastards" would seem like a reasonable I description of some of the proprietors of VMS, at least from the point of  view of VMS proponents.)   -- Alan    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 20:01:40 +1100 4 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@transgrid.com.au> Subject: Re: HP exodus to Intel - Message-ID: <41C694F4.90403@transgrid.com.au>   , Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:T > In article <yd-dneZTlPtPiVvcRVn-rw@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > J >>I'm also quite sure that somewhere in Palo Alto there is a pixie, who inC >>Cromwell-like thinking is musing "Will someone not rid me of this   >>troublesome operating system?" >  >  > ITYM "Henry II". > K > (Acto anecdotage.com: [According to the Dictionary of National Biography, K > Henry's actual complaint was longer: "What a parcel of fools and dastards J > have I nourished in my house that not one of them will avenge me of thisI > one upstart clerk!"]  "Fools and dastards" would seem like a reasonable K > description of some of the proprietors of VMS, at least from the point of  > view of VMS proponents.) > 	 > -- Alan    Alan,   G John may not have been quoting Shakespear (however DEC spells its name  I this week and however William spelt his name in folios) -- I do not have  D my anthology handy to check the actual words, but I can believe you.  
 But check:  E http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/state/church_reformation/becket_04.shtml   @ which uses John's quote if "priest" and "operating systems" are ! synonomous -- religious wars? :-)   F [I wish I could remember what Cromwell said about Charles x, but John 1 knew the quote but misremembered the allegiance.]   B Yeah, and I totally agree (as would 99.999% here -- truncated not I rounded :-) about your comment regarding "Fools and dastards".  Even the  * dyslexic "d" when we first learnt to read.   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged > and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise B the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid  A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the  = individual sender except where the sender expressly and with  C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:36:57 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>  Subject: Re: HP exodus to Intel 8 Message-ID: <h2ads011o22qs7tdcptf70n04d1mb85smo@4ax.com>  H On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:54:54 -0500, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  I >I'm also quite sure that somewhere in Palo Alto there is a pixie, who in B >Cromwell-like thinking is musing "Will someone not rid me of this >troublesome operating system?"   M Your allusion is adrift a few hundred years. I assume that you actually meant 6 Henry II referring to Thomas A Becket. Full story hereE http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/state/church_reformation/becket_04.shtml    -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 07:46:26 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: HP exodus to Intel 3 Message-ID: <FMbKMatKp4+A@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <1103324903.666026.266420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com writes:H > The potential new customers are eagerly waiting in the wings for LinuxI > on Xen on VMS on IA64, with VMS clustering APIs passed through to Linux > > ... so that they can have something equivalent to Linux with > TruClusters:-)  B    I believe IBM already contributed a DLM based cluster to Linux.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:17:02 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: HP exodus to Intel , Message-ID: <K8qdndTx74d-Q1vcRVn-pA@igs.net>   Nigel Barker wrote: C > On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:54:54 -0500, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  > wrote: > D >> I'm also quite sure that somewhere in Palo Alto there is a pixie,F >> who in Cromwell-like thinking is musing "Will someone not rid me of& >> this troublesome operating system?" > @ > Your allusion is adrift a few hundred years. I assume that you7 > actually meant Henry II referring to Thomas A Becket.     8 Since when does a good allegory need to be accurate? ;-)L Beside, I studied engineering & finance - not English literature. Mea culpa.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:31:25 -0500 2 From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@physics.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: HP exodus to Intel A Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0412201029380.15673@frank.harvard.edu>   ' On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Bob Koehler wrote:   f > In article <1103324903.666026.266420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com writes:I >> The potential new customers are eagerly waiting in the wings for Linux J >> on Xen on VMS on IA64, with VMS clustering APIs passed through to Linux? >> ... so that they can have something equivalent to Linux with  >> TruClusters:-)  > C >   I believe IBM already contributed a DLM based cluster to Linux.   ' http://www.lustre.org/docs/luswhite.pdf   K This document even cites Kirby McCoy's book "VMS File System Internals" as  @ a reference describing a DLM based cluster filesystem for Linux.   Chip   --   Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell System Administrator Harvard Physics Department 617-495-3388   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:44:59 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>  Subject: Re: HP exodus to Intel 8 Message-ID: <fnvds018n2cq76vu6ao5fimup5qokpln18@4ax.com>  H On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:17:02 -0500, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:   >Nigel Barker wrote:D >> On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:54:54 -0500, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>	 >> wrote:  >>E >>> I'm also quite sure that somewhere in Palo Alto there is a pixie, G >>> who in Cromwell-like thinking is musing "Will someone not rid me of ' >>> this troublesome operating system?"  >>A >> Your allusion is adrift a few hundred years. I assume that you 8 >> actually meant Henry II referring to Thomas A Becket. >  > 9 >Since when does a good allegory need to be accurate? ;-) M >Beside, I studied engineering & finance - not English literature. Mea culpa.   I Clearly they don't teach you enough English history in US High Schools:-)   , The famous quotes from Oliver Cromwell are:-  P 'I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken.'? plus the one about wanting his portrait painted 'Warts and all'    -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 12:10:32 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) Subject: Re: HP exodus to Intel 3 Message-ID: <FhKteyTsPWy5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <41C36864.18AC0587@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:M > HP forced its customers to move at a time where IA64 was Merced. That image M > remains. HP/Compaq should have simply siad that IA64 wasn't ready for prime = > time yet, but that they would be keeping an open eye to it.   G Not only that, but it likked off ALL of its current enterprise hardware J platforms before the replacements were even close to being ready for primeK time. Exactly the opposite of what DEC did with a 9 year overlap of VAX and G Alpha sales. VAX EOL wasn't announced until the MARKET had decided that  Alpha was the way to go.    1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  G         Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the boisterous sea of $         liberty. -- Thomas Jefferson   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 12:07:09 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) Subject: Re: HP exodus to Intel 3 Message-ID: <h8SWIHxPfMGj@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <1103324903.666026.266420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com writes:H > The potential new customers are eagerly waiting in the wings for LinuxI > on Xen on VMS on IA64, with VMS clustering APIs passed through to Linux > > ... so that they can have something equivalent to Linux with > TruClusters:-)  I Hmmm, maybe the future is to get TruCluster and ADVFS open-sourced to the  Linux community...  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  G         Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the boisterous sea of $         liberty. -- Thomas Jefferson   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 12:22:37 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)2 Subject: Re: HP pulls out of IA64 chip development3 Message-ID: <wTzKb1kDtB9y@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <41C38105.109631A5@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > icerq4a@spray.se wrote: G >> The things that the Alpha team really can contribute with is the new H >> system architecture. The current Itanium cores are doing just fine inI >> performance, and Montecito will have the best power saving features in  >> the industry next year. > [ > The question is whether the Alpha knowledge is really applicable to an EPIC architecture.  > M > A lot of Alpha's performance tricks were anti-EPIC in that it was the Alpha P > logic which automatiaclly parralelized stuff, optimized instruction pipeliningB > etc etc. With EPIC, that is supposed to be done by the compiler.  D The real crown jewel that Intel got from DEC/Compaq in the alphacideJ announcement was the compiler technology and people. Without that compilerF technology EPIC would be as useful as a first generation Pentium doing double precision FP divides.  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  G         Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the boisterous sea of $         liberty. -- Thomas Jefferson   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 08:10:52 -0800' From: "brit1951" <nyce3000@hotmail.com> , Subject: Information concerning VCB02 driverC Message-ID: <1103559052.521001.323340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   @ Can anybody help me? I am looking for information concerning theE graphical driver GAADRIVER. I have managed to find the driver manual, ; but was wondering whether the sources are freely available?    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 12:01:10 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 0 Subject: Re: Information concerning VCB02 driver3 Message-ID: <p64io4GaIwzg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   m In article <1103559052.521001.323340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, "brit1951" <nyce3000@hotmail.com> writes:   B > Can anybody help me? I am looking for information concerning theG > graphical driver GAADRIVER. I have managed to find the driver manual, = > but was wondering whether the sources are freely available?   B    Might be on the source listing CD.  That is certianly not free.?    Depending on what you're doing, you might get someone in VMS     engineering to help you out.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 08:55:23 -0800( From: "Shawn" <shawnm1964@sbcglobal.net>, Subject: Installing and running Audit ServerC Message-ID: <1103561723.406937.175500@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Hi All,   B I have an AlphaServer which is running OpenVMS 7.2-1.  I have beenC asked to investigate the process to install and run Auditing on the F server in order to track who is connecting to the server and the times they are connecting.  C I would like to verify as to what needs to be loaded on the server:   % VMS721_PCSI-V0100 - Already Installed ' VMS721_UPDATE-V0300 - Already Installed % VMS721_LAN-V0300 -  Already Installed ! VMS721_MOUNT96-V0300 - Downloaded   VMS721_SYSLOA-V0200 - Downloaded VMS721_SYS-V1200 - Downloaded   VMS721_AUDSRV-V0200 - Downloaded  B Also, since I have never used OpenVMS Auditing before, would it beG possible to point me to a link that would help me get started using it.  Thanks,  Shawn    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 09:43:23 -0800) From: "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com> 0 Subject: Re: Installing and running Audit ServerB Message-ID: <1103564603.206708.47740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Shawn wrote (in part):	 > Hi All,  > D > I have an AlphaServer which is running OpenVMS 7.2-1.  I have beenE > asked to investigate the process to install and run Auditing on the B > server in order to track who is connecting to the server and the times  > they are connecting.  F Security auditing is built in to OpenVMS, you just have to know how to( turn it on and analyze what you collect.  % Start by reading the documentation at E <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732FINAL/aa-q2hlg-te/aa-q2hlg-te.HTMl>  Ken Robinson   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:31:19 +0200 0 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com>) Subject: Re: New Features in OpenVMS V8.2 * Message-ID: <41c6c92b@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message< news:1103493929.9ad8c1fb4ce85c6a589b178e5e5ecfeb@teranews... > "Main, Kerry" wrote:@ > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/integrity/v82features.html > > @ > > Imho, an excellent tribute to the OpenVMS Engineering folks. > / > When is 8.2 going to OFFICIALLY be shipping ?  > J > There are a couple of goodies in there for the average user. There are a8 > couple of goodies for niche user with special configs. > I > Unfortunatly, this "new features" page is filled with mostly stuff that J > already exists but has been ported to that IA64 thing. It is also filled withK > stuff which is not "new VMS features" but is related to services (such as   > ability to download software). > L > Limiting cluster to 16 nodes shouldn't be a "new feature" thing. It should be! > in the "new restrictions" page.  > J > If this page is intended for customers, there are a lot of acronyms thatI > should be replaced such as "OE" which is use profusely in a section and  which , > is devoid of meaning to average customers. > I > The page mentions a new service to access software via download or DVD.  While L > this shouldn't be part of the new features manual, it is most interesting.K > However, it also begs the question: Will condist (or whatever its name is  this" > week) still be available on CD ? >  > K > There are licencing issues which don't belong in a new features page, and  theyL > scare me. They mention licence trade in policies.  Reading strictly in theI > context of new features for 8.2 that comes with a different LMF system,  doesL > this mean that upgrading from 7.3 to 8.2 requires licenes to be re-issued, and H > that those not on support will have to dish out 40% of the cost of theJ > application licence just for the privilege of moving to a new version of the  > OS ? >  > L > It is good to see OpenSSL provided (even for VAX !). Unfortunatly, I stillF > think it is better for users to compile their won and keep their own source@ > code so that when patches are issued worldwide for all opensslH > iomplementations, users can patch their VMS systems right away and now have to - > wait 5 years for HP to issue a new version.  > I > As VMS starts to provide more and more open sourced stuff, the need for  the C J > compiler to come with every VMS system grows.  Unless the VMS management is= > willing to put priority on providing patches to open source E > modules/applications in a leadership position (ahead of Sun/IBM and  Linux), L > then they must supply the source code and a compiler so that customers canD > apply the patches themselves and not have to wait months/years for
 Digital/HPD > to release one. This is especially trus of self support customers. >  > ? > The system service logging seems to be extremely interesting.  Unfortunatly, inE > a page that shoudl focus on such features, it is devoid of any real J > information about what it really does. Normally, the "New Features" page in; > HELP would provide far more details on such new features.  > I > It mentions a TCPIP scalable kernel. Whoopty doo. What does that mean ?  And I > does this mean that VMS now comes with the TCPIP kernel in it, and that  TCPIP / > Services will only provide the applications ?   J This page contains a *VERY* general description of new features. There areH *many* features missing from this page. The new features manual containsG detailed description for all the features and is worth reading. The SDA  manualL contains detailed description of System Service Logging and ANALYZE/SSL (the tool- used for analyzing the collected information)   K Putting my LMF hat on....no changes in licenses are required when upgrading E Alpha V7.x to V8.2, you need a new PAK (OPENVMS-I64-MCOE for example) L if you move to IA64. The new licensing concepts are described in the new LMF manual.    Guy    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:40:03 +0100 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> ) Subject: Re: New Features in OpenVMS V8.2 , Message-ID: <32o367F374of2U1@individual.net>  & On 2004-12-19 23:14, "JF Mezei" wrote:   > "Main, Kerry" wrote:? >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/integrity/v82features.html  >>  ? >> Imho, an excellent tribute to the OpenVMS Engineering folks.  >  > [...]  > J > If this page is intended for customers, there are a lot of acronyms thatO > should be replaced such as "OE" which is use profusely in a section and which                                 ^^, > is devoid of meaning to average customers.  E "Operating Environment" (copied from the HP-UX licensing scheme as we @ have been told): "Foundation", "Enterprise", "Mission Critical"; specific to *Itanic* systems.   E Some details from a presentation given in November (here in Germany):    "Foundation OE": - OS itself  - unlimited users  - TCP/IP! - DECnet (Plus and IV) end system  - DECwindows/MotifD - "Integration Technologies" (SWS, SWB, COM, XML, SOAP toolkit, ...) ...    "Enterprise OE": + RMS journaling + volume shadowing + DECram ...    "Mission Critical OE":	 + cluster 
 + RTR backend   L Each product not included in the "Foundation OE" can be licensed separately.  O > The page mentions a new service to access software via download or DVD. While L > this shouldn't be part of the new features manual, it is most interesting.P > However, it also begs the question: Will condist (or whatever its name is this" > week) still be available on CD ?  G AFAIK, DVD will be the *only* distribution medium for *Itanic* systems; E CD will be the medium for Alpha (and VAX) for the foreseeable future.   P > There are licencing issues which don't belong in a new features page, and theyL > scare me. They mention licence trade in policies.  Reading strictly in theN > context of new features for 8.2 that comes with a different LMF system, doesP > this mean that upgrading from 7.3 to 8.2 requires licenes to be re-issued, andH > that those not on support will have to dish out 40% of the cost of theN > application licence just for the privilege of moving to a new version of the > OS ?  9 You can't "upgrade" from V7.x on an Itanic system ... ;-)    > [...]    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 08:02:31 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) * Subject: Re: Rack mount hardware standards3 Message-ID: <sl5UIxRVeuCY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <VE$YLcH1cMrG@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  > F > If I were forced to guess, I would say that RETMA was on the way outJ > in the US and Metric was on the way in, but that is entirely conjecture.  F    Both have been around for quite some time.  We've got lots of RETMAE    racks and just mount them as best we can.  This generally means we H    end up with little gaps between our boxes, or only 4 of 6 screws that    line up on a front panel.  C    I've never has any problem with weight vs. the number of useable     screw holes.   F    A lot of stuff has slots instead of holes so you can line up almost    anything.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 03:07:47 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Receiving another user's broadcasts, Message-ID: <41C68835.9FBC852A@teksavvy.com>  N I created a "utility" mailbox under a different username. However, I'd like toL receive the "new mail" broadcast messages in my decterm (or other) window(s) running under my username.  L I know the obvious one is to have a decterm or fileview window (DCL command); and set host to my node and then login under that username.    Any other solutions ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:24:29 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)0 Subject: Re: Receiving another user's broadcasts6 Message-ID: <00A3C9B2.BB881319@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  \ In article <41C68835.9FBC852A@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:O >I created a "utility" mailbox under a different username. However, I'd like to M >receive the "new mail" broadcast messages in my decterm (or other) window(s)  >running under my username.  > M >I know the obvious one is to have a decterm or fileview window (DCL command) < >and set host to my node and then login under that username. >  >Any other solutions ?  N Give the utility account OPER privilege.  Use DELIVER to, upon the receipt of L any mail message, run a command procedure that does "REPLY/USERNAME" to your regular username.   O (Or to run a compiled program which you install with privilege enough to do the   equivalent of a REPLY/USERNAME.)  G If you really don't want the utility account to have oper privilege and F want to stick with DCL so that you don't have anything to install withG privilege,  you can have _another_ account with OPER privilege, and you E make DELIVER send that account a mail message, and you run DELIVER on E _that_ account to do the REPLY/USERNAME when a mail message comes in.    Those should all really work.   F The next idea can tell you that you need to check the mailbox, but not, necessarily how many new messages to expect.  G Run a batch job under an existing privileged account that checks to see H whether you have new mail - you can remember the last number and look atH the number in the VMSMAIL_PROFILE, although that gets imprecise when theG mail is actually read so the unread mail number goes down and you can't F tell whether that lower number includes any new mail, so I suppose youJ could also look in the utility mailbox directory for the last modificationH time of the mailbox.mai file or maybe the most recent creation date of aG mail$xxxx.mai file would tell you something - and does REPLY/USERNAME.)    I hope this sparks some ideas.   -- Alan    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 10:31:29 +0100. From: huber@NOBODY-mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber)0 Subject: Re: Receiving another user's broadcasts+ Message-ID: <D2gLRNh+BX6Q@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   \ In article <41C68835.9FBC852A@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:N > I know the obvious one is to have a decterm or fileview window (DCL command)= > and set host to my node and then login under that username.  > Any other solutions ?   O You don't need a heavy,interactive terminal application, any broadcast-trapping R and message displaying application like DECW$MESSAGEPANEL consumes less resources.) In my environment it would be started by    =   $ NETVUE 'f$getsyi("NODENAME")' DECW$MESSAGEPANEL otheruser   % (otheruser being a proxy of myself).  = NETVUE (or DECW_VUE.COM) to be found in SIG tape archives or: +   http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/util_root/com/    --  6    Joseph Huber, Muenchen  http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 08:08:48 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ( Subject: Re: reverse address translation3 Message-ID: <WyUcaB+gDxyx@eisner.encompasserve.org>   v In article <Pine.LNX.4.61.0412191718480.10332@frank.harvard.edu>, Chip Coldwell <coldwell@physics.harvard.edu> writes: > J > Is there any way to get the virtual address that corresponds to a given  > PFN?      There may be many, or none.  *    The technique goes something like this:      1) buy the internals manual2    2) search the memory map for the PFN and report;    3) if the page is shareable, repeat 2) for all processes   E    Oh, you can use SDA to get at this data, just plan to take lots of     time.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:32:49 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com ( Subject: Re: reverse address translation- Message-ID: <87hdmhyzku.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   4 Chip Coldwell <coldwell@physics.harvard.edu> writes:  C > Is there any way to get the virtual address that corresponds to a  > given PFN?  F Yes, if it is not on the free page list. It will have the possibly oldB mapping in the Page Frame Array, and if it is in a process workingF set, in the Working Set List. Possible exception is memory alocated toH the kernel at system initialisation that is only recorded in the console data.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:32:07 -0500 2 From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@physics.harvard.edu>( Subject: Re: reverse address translationA Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0412201223360.17418@frank.harvard.edu>   ' On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Bob Koehler wrote:   x > In article <Pine.LNX.4.61.0412191718480.10332@frank.harvard.edu>, Chip Coldwell <coldwell@physics.harvard.edu> writes: >>J >> Is there any way to get the virtual address that corresponds to a given >> PFN?  >  >   There may be many, or none.  > + >   The technique goes something like this:  >  >   1) buy the internals manual 3 >   2) search the memory map for the PFN and report < >   3) if the page is shareable, repeat 2) for all processes > F >   Oh, you can use SDA to get at this data, just plan to take lots of	 >   time.   I Really, I phrased that question very badly.  What I've been trying to do  K is to take a peek inside the memory set aside for console use.  I can find  K out which physical pagess it's using with the $GETSYI system service (with  I the SYI$_PFN_MEMORY_MAP flag).  It turns out to be possible to map those  F pages into process address space using $CRMPSC (with the SEC$M_PFNMAP I flag).  I was surprised by that, since the physical pages are flagged to  G be for use by the console, not openvms.  But nothing prevented me from  	 doing it.   E I've got the internals manual, which is how I figured out to try the   procedure above.  K I'm still trying to figure out where this SRM BIOS emulator's emulated x86  J memory lives.  Definitely would like to hear from someone who's worked on  it.    Chip   --   Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell System Administrator Harvard Physics Department 617-495-3388   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:44:43 -0700 . From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc..com> Subject: Standard Deviation . Message-ID: <1kDxd.92$Oo1.937@news.uswest.net>  L Is there a function in VMS that will take a vector (or array) of numbers and compute the nth STDev?   Thanks, 
 Mike Ober.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 07:54:16 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: tick, tick, tick 3 Message-ID: <mZgWWu9MU1aW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   E    OK, it's December 20.  OpenVMS 8.2 I64 was scheduled to ship in Q4     2004.  A    So who's going to be at HP the week of the 27 (when HP offices )    are supposed to be closed) to ship it?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:59:02 +0200 0 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com> Subject: Re: tick, tick, tick * Message-ID: <41c6ddc5@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  : OpenVMS V8.2 is scheduled to be submitted to manufacturing7 early-mid Jan 2005, and will hit the streets early Feb.   G Field test sites will be able to download the kits from the WEB as soon " as it is shipped to manufacturing.   Guy H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:mZgWWu9MU1aW@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > G >    OK, it's December 20.  OpenVMS 8.2 I64 was scheduled to ship in Q4 
 >    2004. > C >    So who's going to be at HP the week of the 27 (when HP offices + >    are supposed to be closed) to ship it?  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:08:33 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: tick, tick, tick , Message-ID: <K8qdndXx74d_Q1vcRVn-pA@igs.net>   Bob Koehler wrote:G >    OK, it's December 20.  OpenVMS 8.2 I64 was scheduled to ship in Q4 
 >    2004. > C >    So who's going to be at HP the week of the 27 (when HP offices + >    are supposed to be closed) to ship it?     H They have to change the terms and conditions of theit 'Retain Trust' (ifL that's what HP thinks they have from their customer base these days) program  because they missed 4Q2004 ship.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 07:46:46 -0800 From: icerq4a@spray.se Subject: Re: tick, tick, tick C Message-ID: <1103557606.052749.165150@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   E It surprises me that people writing on c.o.v. don't seem to have much G contact with the VMS people at HP. HP/VMS has for some time been saying $ that it will be available at 15-FEB.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 08:19:01 -0800& From: "Galen" <gspamtackett@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: tick, tick, tick B Message-ID: <1103559541.451591.31710@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>  , Haven't you ever heard of elastic calendars? :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 18:30:20 +0200 0 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com> Subject: Re: tick, tick, tick * Message-ID: <41c7013c@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  1 "Galen" <gspamtackett@yahoo.com> wrote in message < news:1103559541.451591.31710@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com.... > Haven't you ever heard of elastic calendars? > :-)  >    How about December 57th..;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:08:33 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>  Subject: RE: tick, tick, tick R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB4E9EA3@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----0 > From: Galen [mailto:gspamtackett@yahoo.com]=20" > Sent: December 20, 2004 11:19 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: Re: tick, tick, tick  >=20. > Haven't you ever heard of elastic calendars? > :-)  >=20  # Do you mean like December 45, 2004?    :-)   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 11:51:31 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: tick, tick, tick 3 Message-ID: <gM3W1EHLBon8@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <41c6ddc5@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com> writes: < > OpenVMS V8.2 is scheduled to be submitted to manufacturing9 > early-mid Jan 2005, and will hit the streets early Feb.   E    So the roadmap is out of date.  Well a 1 month slip is better than     EV8 got.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 11:56:45 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: tick, tick, tick 3 Message-ID: <M5K2QxR8W5RZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <1103557606.052749.165150@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, icerq4a@spray.se writes:G > It surprises me that people writing on c.o.v. don't seem to have much I > contact with the VMS people at HP. HP/VMS has for some time been saying & > that it will be available at 15-FEB.  E    I have lots of contact with HP.  Up until today all I heard was Q4 D    2004.  The last time I think was when Andy Goldstein came to the 8    ESILUG just 3 weeks ago.  Previous messages were NDA.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 07:30:48 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) $ Subject: Re: Time to revive Emerald?3 Message-ID: <ZRwB+5K$PtVw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <1103386040.750541.153340@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, icerq4a@spray.se writes: > & > As a normal UNIX, except clustering,> > Tru64 was not in any way better than the other UNIX systems.  G    Except that it did what the documents said it should, it was stable, G    and it was easy to administer using the documented admin interfaces.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 07:42:07 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) $ Subject: Re: Time to revive Emerald?3 Message-ID: <6IkOITW8NpjN@eisner.encompasserve.org>   v In article <Pine.LNX.4.61.0412191738100.10528@frank.harvard.edu>, Chip Coldwell <coldwell@physics.harvard.edu> writes: > K > Is that right?  My understanding was that the PDP-11 didn't even support  L > virtual memory, which is where the name VAX-11 came from (VAX for Virtual I > Address eXtensions, 11 from PDP-11).  Or was this some kind of bolt-on  	 > option?   B    On early PDP-11 the address space was 16 bits, and nobody couldG    afford that much memory.  Later models had a virtual memory address  D    space of 16 bits implemented in a physical address space provided2    by 18 or 22 bit hardware often fully populated.  E    Which meant the virtual space was smaller than the physical space, G    exactly the opposite of a VAX.  No need for page faults.  No support D    for page faults.  Most OS for PDP-11 did base address mapping andE    process (task) swapping, that was the limit of what they needed to -    support virtual to physical space mapping.   F    If you needed more than 16 bits of virtual address space you got to    learn about overlays.  E    Starting with the original VAX-11/780 and VMS 0.x, VAXen had small B    physical address spaces (we had one with only 1/2 MB of memory)G    installed on more capable hardware (SBI was 30 bit).  Virtual memory A    was theoretically always 32 bit, no matter how little physical D    memory you had, but in reality VMS wasn't set up to deal with the@    full 4GB at first.  We ran 3MB programs in 1MB of RAM just by    compile, link, run.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:51:12 +0000 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> $ Subject: Re: Time to revive Emerald?8 Message-ID: <pulds0tmqkqto2ro5vtqcalfqgmvbh0cif@4ax.com>  K On 20 Dec 2004 07:43:44 -0600, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob  Koehler) wrote:   f >In article <Cnoxd.3599$Z%3.137154@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: > I >> I believe Roger's use of the word "virtual" was a slip of the fingers.  > C >   The PDP-11 documentation used the terminology.  Software sees a G >   "virtual address space" of 16 bit on a physical address space which  >   was often larger.   I Perhaps it is more correct to say that "virtual addressing" is simply the K technique where an address in a program is mapped to another address in the 2 physical memory, irrespective of which is larger ?   --  2 Tomorrow has been cancelled until further notice.    Mail john rather than nospam...    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:51:06 -0000 6 From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNoSpamDaniels@themail.co.uk>$ Subject: Re: Time to revive Emerald?5 Message-ID: <41c6d8d5$0$8350$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>   4 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message3 news:19Axd.6874$Z%3.241444@news20.bellglobal.com...  >  <SNIP>F > Swapping out whole processes to disk is fundamentally different thanG > "paging", which is the mechanism by which virtual memory works. (BTW, J > OpenVMS does them both which is why we've got both page and swap files). <SNIP>  J In current VMS versions there is no requirement for separate page and swap files.  I VMS will swap to the pagefile after trimming working sets, if there is no @ swapfile or not enough space in the swapfile, unless it has been+ specifically disabled by setting NOPGFLSWP.    Alex   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:28:49 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com $ Subject: Re: Time to revive Emerald?- Message-ID: <87llbtyzri.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   4 Chip Coldwell <coldwell@physics.harvard.edu> writes:  ( > On Sun, 19 Dec 2004, Roger Ivie wrote: > E >> On 2004-12-19, Chip Coldwell <coldwell@physics.harvard.edu> wrote:   D >>>  In a sense, Intel turned the whole concept of virtual memory onD >>> its head -- whereas in every other VM implementation the virtualE >>> memory is larger than the physical memory (using backing store on A >>> disk to make up the difference), with Intel's P6 the physical - >>> memory is larger than the virtual memory.    Below.  F >> It's actually not that unusual. PDP-8 and PDP-11 worked this way as@ >> well; in the PDP-8, a 12-bit virtual address is extended to aC >> 13-bit (8/i), 15-bit (8/e), or 17-bit (8/a) physical address. On E >> PDP-11, a 16-bit virtual address is turned into an 18-bit (UNIBUS, 6 >> early QBus) or 22-bit (late QBus) physical address.  B > Is that right?  My understanding was that the PDP-11 didn't evenB > support virtual memory, which is where the name VAX-11 came fromD > (VAX for Virtual Address eXtensions, 11 from PDP-11).  Or was this > some kind of bolt-on option?  D The 11 uses a max of 7+8+8 memory regions for each task/process whatD ever you call it. As you really need every region an instruction canE use ready and mapped when you start the instruction, you have to have C most of the space mapped to cover what an instruction may touch. If A you had say 512 pages, then you would still have the same minimum D number of pages needed, but lots less memory, and then demand pagingC is reasonable. A bigger address space of 24/30/32 bits make it even  more atractive.   @ The PAE wart on the PPros and later was not usable for paging or? normal MMU operation. It is a seperate set of region re-mapping A operations that changes the `physical' memory the rest of the MMU 9 uses, or more often, static maps and then does not touch.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:16:18 -0500 2 From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@physics.harvard.edu>$ Subject: Re: Time to revive Emerald?A Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0412201005590.15673@frank.harvard.edu>   & On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Roger Ivie wrote: > @ > Note that if you go down the "has a page table in main memory"G > direction, you're letting out an awful lot of RISC systems. MIPS, for G > example, switches to kernel mode on a TLB miss, which goes around the L > MMU; kernel mode virtual address are essentially physical addresses with a& > couple of bits tacked on at the top.  H I don't completely understand your point here.  Yes, the MIPS processor K takes an exception on TLB misses (which does indeed switch to kernel mode)  K and it is the job of kernel software to traverse the page tables, find the  I correct translation and insert it in the TLB.  The kernel doesn't really  G go around the MMU, it just does all the heavy lifting for it.  Are you  B saying that the fact that this would be done in hardware on other . architectures implies the MIPS has a runt MMU?  H What you're saying about kernel mode address on the MIPS is half right. J There are three regions of kernel memory in the 32-bit MIPS: kseg0, kseg1 
 and kseg2:  # kseg0: 80000000 - 9FFFFFFF (512 MB) # kseg1: A0000000 - BFFFFFFF (512 MB) ! kseg2: C0000000 - FFFFFFFF (1 GB)   H kseg0 has the trivial mapping that the virtual address is translated to K physical by stripping off the MSB, and kseg1 has a similar mapping done by  I stripping off the top three MSBs.[1]  However, kseg2 (half of the kernel  + address space) is fully managed by the MMU.   H I will grant you that most systems will try to fit the entire kernel in 3 kseg0.  So you're more than half right in practice.   K However, I think its pretty clear that the MIPS architecture designers had  K in mind supporting virtual memory, where by that I mean the whole shebang:  H demand paging, swapping, memory protection and yes, page tables in main  memory.    Note:   I [1] So, in fact kseg0 and kseg1 map the same physical memory, namely the  K lowest 512 MB.  The difference is that kseg0 is cached, but kseg1 bypasses  
 the cache.   Chip   --   Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell System Administrator Harvard Physics Department 617-495-3388   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:46:28 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> % Subject: Yet another Inquirer article - Message-ID: <cq6s6j$2lmh$1@news.cybercity.dk>   I The Inquirer continues it attacks on HP and Itanic.  Be sure to read the  H entire article.  The last parts are full og sulphur.  The journalist on E The Inquirer seems to be old VMS and HP zeelots, who are disgruntled  I with what Digital, Compaq and HP have done to their enterprise computing   system business.  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20304    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 07:59:25 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) " Subject: Re: [Fwd: failure notice]3 Message-ID: <AK+X3+0PoONF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <41C423E9.1EF96DE4@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > David B Sneddon wrote:M >> > smtp_sender_close shutdown R0 status = -1, errno = 54, vaxc$errno = 8472  >  >> zen_FTA14> exit 8472 , >> %SYSTEM-W-TOOMANYREDS, too many redirects > C > does a vaxc$errno code represent a real VMS system status code ?    C    Yes.  And perror will automatically pick it up any time errno is G    set to EVMSERR.  So if your code checks for a return of -1 and calls A    perror you get the error message in a manner thats portable to     everything except Windows.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2004 07:52:19 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) I Subject: Re: [Nomex on]: Security research suggests Linux has fewer flaws 3 Message-ID: <v2Ch9P$eq8I6@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <vGGwd.135$rg7.116@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes: > & > Could they get the source for HP-UX?  /    Could they:  yes.  Did they:  good question.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.705 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     dbsneddon@bigpond.comB Sneddo's quick guide ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/B DBS freeware   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:05:36 -0500# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 2 Subject: Re: HP pulls out of IA64 chip development, Message-ID: <kNednbV099KBmEbcRVn-qQ@igs.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  > John Reagan wrote:A >> For product, they received Fortran.  For years, people praised D >> DEC/Compaq's Visual Fortran p