1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 27 Dec 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 718       Contents:' Re: 497 million euro fine for Microsoft ' Re: 497 million euro fine for Microsoft # >>>DO NOT LISTEN TO PAYPAL POSTS<<<  Re: DECnet IV address 1.0  Re: DECnet IV address 1.0  DS10L using laptop drives. Re: DS10L using laptop drives. Re: Needing some help  Re: Needing some help 4 OT:  anybody know the details on the COMAIR debacle?8 Re: OT:  anybody know the details on the COMAIR debacle?8 Re: OT:  anybody know the details on the COMAIR debacle?8 Re: OT:  anybody know the details on the COMAIR debacle?8 Re: OT:  anybody know the details on the COMAIR debacle?8 Re: OT:  anybody know the details on the COMAIR debacle?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 14:37:59 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: 497 million euro fine for Microsoft, Message-ID: <41CF1317.DF04B922@teksavvy.com>  : re: Germany requiring windows to run program to file taxes  L I find this absolutely despicable. And it is ironic since Germany was one ofM the first countries to see some government bodies removing rewuirement to run K windows internalkly and allowing Linux and signing deals with IBM to deploy  Linux internally.   W I believe that Australia also has some window-only program to submit GST (VAT) reports.   J Governments who do that should provide free access to windows machines (in9 post offices for instance) so that people can file there.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 14:41:36 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: 497 million euro fine for Microsoft, Message-ID: <41CF13F0.2AA6EB8D@teksavvy.com>   DeanW wrote:E > Tying threads together somewhat, but that's not quite true. They're G > requiring users to run a system that presents a _Windows_environment_  > to an executable.     M I don't expect a government to provide executables for simple tasks. I expect M them to use published standards and let anyone write their own application to L provide the data, and then allow private enterprise to write applications in* whatever OS using the published interface.  H And that if and only if the tasks to be done really cannot be done using simple HTML.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 01:37:58 GMT ) From: Matt<donotlisten@topaypalposts.com> , Subject: >>>DO NOT LISTEN TO PAYPAL POSTS<<<7 Message-ID: <WHJzd.12586$Pv5.6258@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net>    DO NOT LISTEN TO PAYPAL POSTS!  + IGNORE MY LAST POST!, IGNORE IT COMPLETELY!    DO NOT PART WITH ANY MONEY!    I have recently been taken in, I have thrown away many spam emails and ignored many posts before. But the idea that this is legal because people are knowingly paying to add their name to a list, sounded good!     Since sending the post I have received many emails, and I fear to say that I have un knowingly managed to get myself into some serious shit!, only sending the paypal post yesterday I have not heard from the local authorities although I am expecting them to call, I have however contacted my local police station myself, who have basically told me that as long as any money paid to me is returned and I do not accept any of it. That is the best I can do for now. However a member of the computer crime dept will bo e in touch though as he feared I still may have commited other internet related crimes that I was not aware of.   q I do not have the ability to remove my last post, so all I can do to try and put things right is to send another! S WARNING others of the consequeses you to may face if you respond in the way i have!    ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 20:40:22 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)" Subject: Re: DECnet IV address 1.0$ Message-ID: <cqn7jm$2g1$1@online.de>  E In article <newscache$ylhc9i$7a9$1@news.sil.at>, peter@langstoeger.at $ (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:   1 > >Was DECnet EVER a prerequisite for clustering?  > I > Sort of. You needed DECnet to have/manage MOP which is required to boot I > a satellite. So being a bootserver required the DECnet product (but not  > the protocol).  6 Of course, many clusters don't have satellites at all.  B > Then came LANCP and the requirement for DECnet for MOP was gone.   Right.  G > >                                                I realise that some  L > >applications (PHONE) might not work properly in a cluster if there is no F > >DECnet (fortunately, MONITOR can be run over TCPIP), but that is a L > >mistake of the writer of the application---I don't think DECnet was ever ( > >a prerequisite for clustering per se. >  > SYSMAN still requires it.   H My hobbyist cluster has three nodes at the moment (2 VAX and 1 ALPHA).  H I use SYSMAN all the time.  No node in the cluster has DECnet installed.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:22:33 +0000 (UTC) 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)" Subject: Re: DECnet IV address 1.00 Message-ID: <newscache$k9lc9i$lbb$1@news.sil.at>  i In article <newscache$aukc9i$q9b$1@news.sil.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: j >In article <newscache$3hkc9i$5za$1@news.sil.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:y >>In article <cqn7jm$2g1$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: K >>>My hobbyist cluster has three nodes at the moment (2 VAX and 1 ALPHA).   K >>>I use SYSMAN all the time.  No node in the cluster has DECnet installed.  >>7 >>You use SYSMAN to control remote systems over TCPIP ? ) >>Can you share details (like TCP port) ?  > = >Ok, forget it. You said cluster. There, SYSMAN is using SCS.  > 0 >You need DECnet for nonclustered remote systems= >and AFAIK it is still not possible to run SYSMAN over TCPIP.     Sigh. Still not totally correct.? You need DECnet for using SYSMAN across cluster/node boundaries 9 eg. a) from nonclustered host to remote nonclustered host 6     b) from clustered host to remote nonclustered host6     c) from nonclustered host to remote clustered hostI     d) from clustered host to remote clustered host of another VMScluster   & You don't need DECnet for using SYSMAN     a) for the local host <     b) for a (group of) clustermember of the same VMScluster   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Dec 2004 19:55:57 -08005 From: Hiroyuki_Tanaka4@excite.co.jp (Hiroyuki Tanaka) # Subject: DS10L using laptop drives. = Message-ID: <68cfa44d.0412261955.2cdf7f91@posting.google.com>   	 Hi Group,   C I have a DS10L hobbyist system (30Gb drive and CDRom /floppy combo) = with a powerstorm 350 in the PCI slot. I use it as an Open GL E workstation.  I could not afford a hobbyist DS10 which will work with  the powerstorm 350.   C I knew when I purchased this system the was limited with drives and 
 expanison.   D Is it possible to put two laptop drives in the system to replace theC internal 30Gb drive. Giving me a mechanism to do backups. Space and ! see are NOT my main requirements.    D I see from VMS that the system can have upto 4 IDE drives.  (Well itA sees the two I have dqa0, dqb and shows errors on dqa1 and dqb1).     Anyone done this with a DS10L?   Tanaka   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 23:53:46 -0500 - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> ' Subject: Re: DS10L using laptop drives. 1 Message-ID: <qOWdnVYVoMPBCFLcRVn-gA@adelphia.com>    Hiroyuki Tanaka wrote: > Hi Group,  >  >   F > I see from VMS that the system can have upto 4 IDE drives.  (Well itC > sees the two I have dqa0, dqb and shows errors on dqa1 and dqb1).  >     > Anyone done this with a DS10L?  , You can put up to 137 GB drives on the unit.  F The laptop drives use different connectors.  The extra expense of the E laptop drives and the adapters for the connectors makes using them a   pricey solution.  I It may be cheaper to get another Alpha for use for disk storage and LAVC   them.   G I have not looked at the cabinet of a DS10L to see of there is any way  F to mount the laptop IDE or other drives, nor do I know if the cabinet  would take the heat.  F I also have not heard of anyone repacking a DS10L in a larger case to J have more drive bays.  That would probably void any warrantee on the unit.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 23:32:26 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com  Subject: Re: Needing some help- Message-ID: <87brchgjn9.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   . "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl> writes:  @ > My memory was never that reliable but AFAIK there's no VAX/VMSE > release that requires a VAX firmware upgrade. Unlike the AXP, a VAX  > is a VAX, right?  . No, 3.2 required ECO7 firmware, aka `Twinkle'.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 23:46:27 +0100 , From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl> Subject: Re: Needing some help, Message-ID: <338tbtF3t4dvjU1@individual.net>  * <prep@prep.synonet.com> schreef in bericht' news:87brchgjn9.fsf@prep.synonet.com... 0 > "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl> writes: > B > > My memory was never that reliable but AFAIK there's no VAX/VMSG > > release that requires a VAX firmware upgrade. Unlike the AXP, a VAX  > > is a VAX, right? > 0 > No, 3.2 required ECO7 firmware, aka `Twinkle'. >  > --  > > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.   J I'm glad you mention VMS 3.2. It's not my memory at fault here but lack of( exerience: 3.4 was my first VMS release.- What did Twinkle do, or why was it necessary?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 15:50:48 -0800 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> = Subject: OT:  anybody know the details on the COMAIR debacle? + Message-ID: <cqnioo$j1e$1@naig.caltech.edu>   / Anybody know the details on the COMAIR debacle?    Here is a description from CNN:   < http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/26/airlines.us.reut/index.html  G  >Separately, Comair, a Delta Air Lines Inc. unit, resumed a "limited"  I  >flight schedule after grounding all of its 1,100 flights to 119 cities  I  >on Christmas because of a computer system crash, said Tracey Bowden, a    >Delta spokeswoman.  >B  >The holiday travel plans of about 30,000 Comair passengers were G  >scrambled Saturday. Bowden could not estimate how many flights would  G  >take off Sunday but said the number would rise over the next several  H  >days "with anticipation they will be operating a full schedule by the   >end of the week."   D What the heck were these guys doing if a "computer system crash" wasG sufficient to take them offline for days???  That level of downtime is  < just inexcusable.  Either they lost a couple of datacenters G simultaneously (an interesting story if true) or their mission critical 2 software was running on Windows 98 - sans backups!   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 20:19:27 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> A Subject: Re: OT:  anybody know the details on the COMAIR debacle? + Message-ID: <41CF630C.8CA4016@teksavvy.com>    David Mathog wrote: F > What the heck were these guys doing if a "computer system crash" was. > sufficient to take them offline for days???   = A flight cancellation has a lot of effects that trickle down.   M Consider that a plane may do A to B to C to D to  A to E  to F to A in a day. K Consider that a flight crew has limitation on number of hours they can work 5 and a minimum number of hours of rest between shifts.   H Now, consider what happens when the above plane gets stuck at E when E'sL airport closes due to weather. Not only are the remaining flights cancelled,L but the next day, the plane is still at E and can't start its cycle. And youJ have a crew stuck in a hotel at E, and F-bound passengers stranted at E.    L So, you need to draw up a plan to bring planes and crews from where they areE to where they should be at that time of the day as well as try to get 2 passengers to where they are supposed to be going.  L If you bring the plane back to A to resume its schedule, the crew may not beM able to complete the full day's workload due to limit in number of hours they Y can fly. So you need to work the crew's schedules for that next day to resolve conflicts.   F Airlines have software to help cope with these issues. But perhaps theG software was overwhelmed with the number of misplaced aircraft and crew 7 conflicts and was unable to produce the neeed schedule.   K When you have a few hundred planes and perhaps over a thousand flights in a ( day, you can't adjust schedules by hand.  K So I wouldn't blame this on a computer breakdown. Just a scale of a problem  that had not been planned for.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 01:52:04 GMT   From: CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net>A Subject: Re: OT:  anybody know the details on the COMAIR debacle? * Message-ID: <41CF6AC4.8030307@prodigy.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  > David Mathog wrote:  > F >>What the heck were these guys doing if a "computer system crash" was. >>sufficient to take them offline for days???  >  > ? > A flight cancellation has a lot of effects that trickle down.  > O > Consider that a plane may do A to B to C to D to  A to E  to F to A in a day. M > Consider that a flight crew has limitation on number of hours they can work 7 > and a minimum number of hours of rest between shifts.  > J > Now, consider what happens when the above plane gets stuck at E when E'sN > airport closes due to weather. Not only are the remaining flights cancelled,N > but the next day, the plane is still at E and can't start its cycle. And youL > have a crew stuck in a hotel at E, and F-bound passengers stranted at E.   > N > So, you need to draw up a plan to bring planes and crews from where they areG > to where they should be at that time of the day as well as try to get 4 > passengers to where they are supposed to be going. > N > If you bring the plane back to A to resume its schedule, the crew may not beO > able to complete the full day's workload due to limit in number of hours they [ > can fly. So you need to work the crew's schedules for that next day to resolve conflicts.  > H > Airlines have software to help cope with these issues. But perhaps theI > software was overwhelmed with the number of misplaced aircraft and crew 9 > conflicts and was unable to produce the neeed schedule.  > M > When you have a few hundred planes and perhaps over a thousand flights in a * > day, you can't adjust schedules by hand. > M > So I wouldn't blame this on a computer breakdown. Just a scale of a problem   > that had not been planned for.  A They said the computer crashed.  That's different from saying the A software couldn't find a feasible solution in an acceptable time.    --  D The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt toC minimize spam.  Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 18:59:18 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> A Subject: Re: OT:  anybody know the details on the COMAIR debacle? ( Message-ID: <opsjnbw4qczgicya@hyrrokkin>  K On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 02:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org>    wrote:  G >     The great majority of Comair's traffic flows through the midwest, J > and the central base of operations is in Cincinnati. The midwest was hitH > by a major snowstorm this week, causing many, many crew reassignments.H > It appears right now that the application in question has a hard limitE > of 32,000 changes per month (ouch). Consider that Comair runs 1,100 H > flights a day and there are usually 3 crew members on each aircraft. AF > big storm like this can cause problems for days after the snow stops. > falling. That's a whole lot of crew changes.  - The limit, in that event, was likely 32768:-)    --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 02:53:06 +0000 (UTC) % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> A Subject: Re: OT:  anybody know the details on the COMAIR debacle? 6 Message-ID: <slrncsuucj.gd7.usenet@gaia.roc2.gblx.net>  L In article <41CF6AC4.8030307@prodigy.net>, CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: N >> So I wouldn't blame this on a computer breakdown. Just a scale of a problem! >> that had not been planned for.  > C > They said the computer crashed.  That's different from saying the C > software couldn't find a feasible solution in an acceptable time.   E Yeah, well. I wouldn't necessarily take a news report as gospel for a ? technical event when lacking details and not reported through a  technical source.   B This is unverified, and could be a wild rumor, but sounds credibleG (especially since it has better details and someone else with firsthand G knowledge of Comair IT operations whom vouched for the report), and was  seen on a Slashdot thread:  $ Re:Fire away! (Score:5, Informative)@ by [Xorian] (112258) on Sunday December 26, @12:56PM (#11185556)  F Someone from Comair (who shall remain anonymous) provided me with some0 details whch people here would be interested in:  H     The computer system in question runs AIX. The box itself is still up@ and running just fine; this is purely an application error. ThisD application was not written in-house at Comair, but by another largeG aerospace company -- SBS (http://www.sbsint.com/ [sbsint.com], owned by C Boeing.) This bit of software does not use an external database, it G tracks everything itself. It is a dedicated system responsible only for F flight crew assignments. (The blather in the original submission aboutH passenger reservations is way off-base. Those functions are handled by a completely different system.)   E     The great majority of Comair's traffic flows through the midwest, H and the central base of operations is in Cincinnati. The midwest was hitF by a major snowstorm this week, causing many, many crew reassignments.F It appears right now that the application in question has a hard limitC of 32,000 changes per month (ouch). Consider that Comair runs 1,100 F flights a day and there are usually 3 crew members on each aircraft. AD big storm like this can cause problems for days after the snow stops, falling. That's a whole lot of crew changes.  G     In Comair's defense, this has never happened before and is unlikely G to happen again. The crew system was already on the chopping block long B before this incident, with its replacement scheduled to go live inD January. If this freak storm had happened a month later, this likely never would have occurred.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 19:13:36 -0800  From: Z <z@no.spam> A Subject: Re: OT:  anybody know the details on the COMAIR debacle? ) Message-ID: <c8Lzd.3923$I53.312@fe07.lga>   
 CJT wrote:C > They said the computer crashed.  That's different from saying the C > software couldn't find a feasible solution in an acceptable time.   F Take that description w/ a grain of salt.  Anyone who's done customer E support knows that lots of problems are called "computer crashes" by  : users, even if no hardware or software components crashed.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.718 ************************