1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 30 Dec 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 724       Contents:' Re: 497 million euro fine for Microsoft ' Re: 497 million euro fine for Microsoft 3 Re: anybody know the details on the COMAIR debacle? $ Re: Building OpenSSL 0.9.7e on a VAX Re: ftp  Re: ftp P Re: Has anyone heard if any of our customers have been hurt by the tidal wave inP Re: Has anyone heard if any of our customers have been hurt by the tidal wave inP Re: Has anyone heard if any of our customers have been hurt by the tidal wave inP Re: Has anyone heard if any of our customers have been hurt by thetidal  wave inP Re: Has anyone heard if any of our customers have been hurt by thetidal wave in  Re: Need UNIX clarification  Re: Need UNIX clarification * Re: Older StorageWorks Parts Not Available* Re: Older StorageWorks Parts Not Available* Re: Older StorageWorks Parts Not Available* Re: Older StorageWorks Parts Not Available* Re: Older StorageWorks Parts Not Available( SCSI ON A VAX 4000/500 - WHAT DO I NEED?, Re: SCSI ON A VAX 4000/500 - WHAT DO I NEED?, Re: SCSI ON A VAX 4000/500 - WHAT DO I NEED?, Re: SCSI ON A VAX 4000/500 - WHAT DO I NEED?, Re: SCSI ON A VAX 4000/500 - WHAT DO I NEED?, Re: SCSI ON A VAX 4000/500 - WHAT DO I NEED? Re: Supported Itanium hardware Re: Supported Itanium hardware TeX / LaTeX for Open VMS Re: tick, tick, tick Re: tick, tick, tick3 [Fwd: Re: SCSI ON A VAX 4000/500 - WHAT DO I NEED?]  Re: ~ Happy New Year ~ Re: ~ Happy New Year ~ Re: ~ Happy New Year ~  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 02:19:06 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com 0 Subject: Re: 497 million euro fine for Microsoft- Message-ID: <87llbhvug5.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   - Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes:   @ > ????? Where did I write that the mainframe has been extincted?C > IBM's revenue on Z/series with z/OS is as far as I remember about F > $4bn, which is more than enough to keep that platform alive for manyF > years. However, the revenue is not nearly as big as it has been.  ItD > is not the money machine, it once was, and the longterm trend is a" > small loss of revenue each year.  0 > Dr. Dweeb, did you actually read what I wrote?  I Well, for decades the mainframe sale revinue was ~$0, baring Federal Govt 6 systems, so it is now WAY bigger than it used to be :)  & BTW, that is not where the money is...   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:13:22 -0700 . From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc..com>0 Subject: Re: 497 million euro fine for Microsoft/ Message-ID: <EdEAd.16$2D6.1413@news.uswest.net>   5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message & news:33g6vgF40f3rmU1@individual.net...: > In article <3g3ls0lsh599kb9pl8g914ttp7daipq3mq@4ax.com>,% > Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> writes:  > > J > > Did any of the various companies providing 3rd party TCP/IP stacks for Windows J > > sue Microsoft when Windows for Workgroups 3.11 shipped with integrated TCP/IP?  > H > Just because the sardine decides not to take on the shark doesn't meanJ > the shark wasn't a bully.  Discretion being the better part of valor.... >   L Having used and configured the $100 Pathworks stack that existed for WindowsK 3.1 when the $50 WfW 3.11 upgrade came out with an integrated TCP/IP stack, L the hands down technical winner was the WfW stack.  The WfW TCP/IP stack wasK extremely simple to configure, used a lot less real-mode memory (that was a J critical issue with _ALL_ DOS based IP stacks, including Microsoft's), andI it performed slightly faster than the Pathworks stack.  At the time I was I responsible for configuring and maintiaining over 400 Windows based PCs - J the WfW upgrade paid for itself in less than 6 months, even though we wereD already completely licensed for and had fielded the Pathworks stack.  I The IP stack in WfW 3.11 also eliminated a whole class of problems in the D Winsock APIs - every vendor had implemented the WinSock API slightlyL differently so programs that would run on one vendor's stack wouldn't run on another vendor's stack.   I The Windows for Workgroups 3.11 TCP/IP stack is a poor example of illegal J bundling simply because network I/O should be part of the OS.  Every otherK OS, including VMS already had network I/O, either as part of the base OS as G in Unix, or as a layered product as in VMS.  By the standard of illegal K bundling, if WfW's IP stack is illegal, so are the IP stack implementations  in Unix and Linux.  
 Mike Ober.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:11:49 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> < Subject: Re: anybody know the details on the COMAIR debacle?, Message-ID: <NISdnVT1I_AMgE7cRVn-1w@igs.net>   David Mathog wrote: 1 > Anybody know the details on the COMAIR debacle?  >   8 http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/erp/article.php/3452501  * Feds To Probe Comair After Computer Outage December 28, 2004 
 By Jim Wagner       L Officials at Delta Air Lines (Quote, Chart) subsidiary Comair said they haveA been in constant talks with federal authorities about last week's F disruptions, even before a public memo aired by the U.S. Department of- Transportation (DOT) Secretary Norman Mineta.   D In a memorandum to Kenneth Mead, the DOT's inspector general, MinetaE requested an "expedited review" of the events surrounding the holiday E weekend, where a software outage crashed Comair's flight schedule and L undelivered baggage and cancellations plagued Comair, Delta, as well as U.S.K Airways passengers (who were hit by baggage delays after a huge sick-out at * the company during the Christmas weekend).  D Mineta is calling for a joint investigation with the DOT's office ofA aviation and international affairs and office of general counsel.   H "It is important that the department and the traveling public understandI what happened, what travelers were told by the carriers, why it happened, K and whether the carriers properly planned for the holiday travel period and J responded appropriately to consumer needs in the aftermath," Mineta's memo stated.   L The day after Christmas, Comair officials were blaming the storm system thatL socked much of the Midwest, "which stressed the airline's infrastructure andI caused the computer system that manages crew flight assignments to become . inoperative," its press statement read Sunday.  K The Comair crew flight scheduling software in question was developed by SBS J International, a division within the commercial aviation group at aviationG information systems provider Jeppesen, which is a subsidiary of airline C industry giant Boeing (Quote, Chart). Jeppesen and SBS, both Boeing A subsidiaries, integrated their software suites earlier this year.   K According to Mike Pound, a Jeppesen spokesman, Comair has been using a crew K flight management software application called Track since it first penned a J contract with SBS in 1986. The Track software application, Pound said, hasF long since been replaced (and is no longer available for sale) by SBS'8 latest line of crew flight scheduling software, Maestro.  G Until this month, Comair hasn't been affected by any limitations in the G Track software, notably the fact the system can only accommodate 32,000 F changes a month. But the many flight cancellations, caused by a severeC winter storm front that tore through the Midwest last week, and the I subsequent rescheduled flights soon swamped the dated software and caused 
 the crash.  L "I wouldn't say the SBS application was the cause [of the crash]; it was theH storm that was the cause of it -- the subsequent demands that Comair wasJ placing on the application that they use to schedule crews and track theirB flying exceeded the monthly limit of the application," Pound said.  C Nick Miller, a Comair spokesman, would not comment on the impending G investigation or the software that's to blame for canceling flights and C stranding passengers throughout the Midwest over Christmas weekend.   K "We're in a position where we're focusing our comments at this time only on I the status of our operations and the efforts we're taking to take care of L our customers," he said. "We've been in constant contact with the regulatory/ agencies with whom we work on a regular basis."   K Officials expect to resume normal flight operations Wednesday. According to H a statement Tuesday, it expects to run 75 percent of its scheduled 1,1605 daily flights in the Midwest, Canada and the Bahamas.   L Pound said the airliner is still using the same version of Track used beforeH the crash. Jeppesen, he continued, is helping Comair IT staffers ramp upC their flight operations schedule through the software company's two 4 technical support operations in New York and Denver.  G As Mineta points out in his memo that the goal of the inspector general @ review is to make sure something like this doesn't happen again.  J "While the worst of it may be over, I am deeply concerned about the impactA on the system and the continued hardship being endured by so many I consumers," Mineta's memo reads. "Therefore, I believe that we must learn 2 from the situations to preclude their recurrence."      G ....so presumably anyone who sets a counter somewhere in an application L program that's too small for some unforeseeable time into the future becauseH their customer isn't making enough money to replace their system with an7 updated version will get investigated, and maybe fined.   L I remember the day Wall Street broke 100 million shares for the 1st time andL now an unsigned 32-bit int isn't large enough to keep track of the number of shares.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Dec 2004 13:02:25 -06004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)- Subject: Re: Building OpenSSL 0.9.7e on a VAX 3 Message-ID: <7Ta59AUl$ItK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   M In article <zZWM2L1lDUbl@wvnvms>, cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) writes: l > In article <HYUYmJ5SncMF@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:G >> Has anyone built OpenSSL 0.9.7e on a VAX successfully?  I downloaded G >> the latest from http://www.openssl.org/source/ and tried to compile  C >> it on a VAX running V7.2, and DECC 6.4, with the latest patches.  >>   >> Using the...  >>  2 >> $ @MAKEVMS.COM all ignore nodebug decc multinet >>  F >> invocation, I received several of the following errors (reduced to  >> one instance for brevity)...  >>  1 >> Compiling The DES Library Files. (LIBRARY,LIB)  >>         set_key.cR >>         OPENSSL_IMPLEMENT_GLOBAL(int,DES_check_key);    /* defaults to false */ >>         ^P >> %CC-W-MIXLINKAGE, In this declaration, "_hide_DES_check_key" is declared withR >>  both internal and external linkage.  The previous declaration is at line 70 in6 >>  $44$DKA200:[OPENSSL-0_9_7E.CRYPTO.DES]SET_KEY.C;1.J >>  At line number 70 in$44$DKA200:[OPENSSL-0_9_7E.CRYPTO.DES]SET_KEY.C;1. >>  ? >> %VCG-I-SUMMARY, Completed with 0 error(s), 1 warning(s), and  >>  0 informational messages. L >>  At line number 411 in $44$DKA200:[OPENSSL-0_9_7E.CRYPTO.DES]SET_KEY.C;1. >>  @ >> %LIBRAR-W-COMCOD, compilation warnings in module SET_KEY file: >> $44$DKA200:[OPENSSL-0_9_7E.VAX.OBJ.CRYPTO]SET_KEY.OBJ;1 >>  K >> Before I start the forensic work necessary to figure this out, I thought < >> I'd bounce a "did you get it work" message off the group. > B > I tried the following build of 0.9.7e on VAX V7.3 with DECC 6.4: > 1 >         @MAKEVMS BUILDINF NORSAREF NODEBUG DECC 2 >         @MAKEVMS SOFTLINKS NORSAREF NODEBUG DECC/ >         @MAKEVMS CONFIG NORSAREF NODEBUG DECC / >         @MAKEVMS CRYPTO NORSAREF NODEBUG DECC  > A > and SET_KEY.C compiled fine.  I don't do a full build because I 7 > only use it with VMS Mosaic.  Our TCP/IP is Multinet.   ? George Cook and I finally figured out how to get both the Alpha < and VAX versions to compile.  Seems that since the softlinks? command, above, was done _before_ the config command, the newly ? config'd include files were not copied to the appropriate build = directories.  The difference in the configured include files, < outside of the standard 32/64 bit stuff, was the line in the makevms file outlined below.  ? To make it work on the VAX running V7.3 and DECC 6.4-005, I had 2 to comment out line 312 in the makevms.com file...  9 $   WRITE H_FILE "#define OPENSSL_EXPORT_VAR_AS_FUNCTION"   ; Once that was done I did the following on both platforms...   - $ @makevms config norsa nodebug decc multinet 0 $ @makevms softlinks norsa nodebug decc multinet- $ @makevms crypto norsa nodebug decc multinet * $ @makevms ssl norsa nodebug decc multinet  C And they all compiled clean.  I now have the olbs for VAX and Alpha  on V7.3 for 0.9.7e.   ? Since I don't have an older VAX VMS version, or older VAX/DEC C ? compiler available, I can't test where this define didn't break > the build.  For that reason I'm just documenting what I had toA do to get the build to work for my versions.  (Unfortunately, the > "new, improved, Google Groups" had made this type of archiving3 all but unusable, but that is a different problem.)   ; Oh, and one other caveat.  Even though the build tree has a ; separate directory for the VAX and Alpha objects, olbs, and ; executables, it _doesn't_ have separate directories for the 9 include files.  Thus, don't try to build on more than one @ platform at a time unless tracking down transient errors is your idea of a fun afternoon.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:00:56 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: ftp, Message-ID: <41D30CF8.3000302@tsoft-inc.com>   Brian wrote:  < > is there a way to ftp from the vax to the Windows server?  >  >  >     Talk about terse questions.  :-)  ; 1) the VMS system must have a FTP client available for use.   A 2) the windows system must have an FTP service available for use.   Q If you have TCP/IP or UCX on the VMS system, and the FTP client is enabled, that   part is ready.  Q My experience (limited) with windows is that the server version of the OS has an  K FTP service as part of the IIS stuff.  There probably also are third party  4 products that will do this, but I don't know of any.   Dave   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Dec 2004 19:54:11 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: ftp3 Message-ID: <44pVLbESKJWI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <41D30CF8.3000302@tsoft-inc.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Brian wrote: > = >> is there a way to ftp from the vax to the Windows server?   >>   >>   >>   > " > Talk about terse questions.  :-) > = > 1) the VMS system must have a FTP client available for use.  > C > 2) the windows system must have an FTP service available for use.   A With a question that terse, the other way around would also work.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Dec 2004 18:52:21 -0800! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com Y Subject: Re: Has anyone heard if any of our customers have been hurt by the tidal wave in C Message-ID: <1104375141.687457.290670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   G This is truly devastating its nothing to do with business and everthing D to do with caring about our human family.  It makes me so sad to seeB what is on the news that I can not even look at the news any more.G These poor people that have had their families devastated, their entire C communites destroyed I just can not comprehend how they are dealing 
 with this.   Sue    ------------------------------   Date: 30 Dec 2004 05:54:47 GMT! From: Lee Witten <lw99@yahoo.com> Y Subject: Re: Has anyone heard if any of our customers have been hurt by the tidal wave in . Message-ID: <Xns95D0963BC90Ann48@199.125.85.9>  0 Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in, news:+hV4QBdYamVl@eisner.encompasserve.org: G > Yes, I had been wondering why all the reports of damage from Thailand H > but not from Vietnam which is also on the Indochina peninsula.  It wasF > quite instructive to stop the ReplayTV and get a look at the networkF > news map for the region.  The South China Sea is quite shielded, andE > contrary to localized experience with ocean swells, it would seem a + > Tsunami is ineffective at taking corners.    Here's a fairly helpful map:  / http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/4126019.stm    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 02:31:48 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com Y Subject: Re: Has anyone heard if any of our customers have been hurt by the tidal wave in - Message-ID: <87d5wtvtuz.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   / Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:   > > Yes, I had been wondering why all the reports of damage from> > Thailand but not from Vietnam which is also on the IndochinaE > peninsula.  It was quite instructive to stop the ReplayTV and get a F > look at the network news map for the region.  The South China Sea isA > quite shielded, and contrary to localized experience with ocean C > swells, it would seem a Tsunami is ineffective at taking corners.   D Phucket is on the Malaysian peninsular part of Thailand, on the west? coast of it in fact. I'd not expect any noticable effect to get  through the Sundas Straight.  ; Not heard of and damage from Malasia come to think of it...    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:37:58 -0800 * From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>Y Subject: Re: Has anyone heard if any of our customers have been hurt by thetidal  wave in 2 Message-ID: <jtudnfxYW_qw9E7cRVn-gg@mpowercom.net>  , "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message , news:cqvebc$bil$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...L > By the way, did anyone notice that the *west* coast of Sri Lanka was hit, M > not the east coast that is facing the direction of Sumatra where the waves  K > came from? I was there on holiday many years ago, and it was a very nice  K > area. I suppose the hotel survived, since it was build on the foundation  ) > of an old fort at the mouth of a river.  > L The east coast did get hit, according to maps and sat photos on local (Hong H Kong) TV last night.  The tsunami curled around the southern tip of Sri J Lanka and came up the western coast.  The eastern coast was hit directly. 7 Reports are few because of the civil war in the region.    Jack Peacock     ------------------------------    Date: 29 Dec 2004 17:09:23 -0800) From: "Sarkunarajah S" <ngroup@gmail.com> Y Subject: Re: Has anyone heard if any of our customers have been hurt by thetidal wave in  A Message-ID: <1104368962.988644.9680@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   D Malaysia was impacted by the tsunami, for more details pls refer the following website. URL: http://www.thestar.com.my/    thanks...sarkunarajah s    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:21:15 -0500 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> $ Subject: Re: Need UNIX clarification9 Message-ID: <6lEAd.25562$nV.824838@news20.bellglobal.com>   + "Ben" <cellctl@lycos.com> wrote in message  < news:1104314479.610621.50510@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...F > Threads?  That's total bullcrap.  You'd have a harder time finding aH > non-multithreaded UNIX.  Who gave you that information?  Sounds like a, > salesman trying to take adavantage of you. > F > If you're running Solaris, like you mentioned, you can use dtrace toH > track down the problem.  Read Sun's tutorial... it includes an exampleH > on how to fix exactly what you describe.  Unfortunately, it'll requireI > Solaris 10.  Fortunately, it's pretty stable, and if you set it up on a F > "test" system you could probably use the results you find to correct( > the problem on your older Solaris box. >  > Good luck  > J Thanks for the update. I didn't think current flavors of UNIX were single M threaded and, as others in this thread have suggested, it was probably an OS  J tuning issue. (his blade comment seemed to have the ring-of-truth but I'm K not a UNIX head so what would I know?) The application vendor is currently  J only supporting Solaris 9 so I'll have to play around with "dtrace" after  some future upgrade.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada." http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------   Date: 30 Dec 2004 05:45:41 GMT! From: Lee Witten <lw99@yahoo.com> $ Subject: Re: Need UNIX clarification. Message-ID: <Xns95D07D73A741nn48@199.125.85.9>  , "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in3 news:BbfAd.21823$Tn1.735381@news20.bellglobal.com:  @ > Our shop spends 95% of our time developing/maintaining OpenVMSE > software for an internal application and ~5% of our time doing UNIX F > system admin work. We've run into problems from time-to-time where aB > single application (DHCP for example) will seem consume too manyE > resources which resulted in PANIC messages at the console of one of  > our Solaris boxes.    A Well, of course, this should not happen presuming the machine is   reasonably well provisioned.  F > When we talked to the system vendor for this particular application,D > we were told the following "most UNIX operating systems are singleD > threaded so we should invest in a multi-blade solution where a webG > server runs on one blade, DHCP on a second, Oracle on a third, and so H > on". When you hear something like this, you don't know if it's true orC > whether some salesman trying to sell you more hardware (or both).   G No, unix solutions do not work this way.  This is the way many Windows  H shops end up operating.  Since the apps are so unpredictable, it's best E to give them each their own 'blade'.  BTW unix was invented 20 years  5 before the word 'blade' came in to its current usage.   B > p.s. we solved our problem by moving the DHCP function to an oldF > AS-2100 sitting in the back room and it has been happily running forF > over a year now without a peep (currently serving up 150,000 address > from a 50 segment pool).   Not really a surprise.  H > So here's my question. Is it true that most flavors of UNIX are single' > threaded? Is LINUX? Is HP-UX? Is AIX? F > I was lead to believe that Tru64 was multi-threaded and this was oneE > reason why HP couldn't move AdvFs and TruCluster support from Tru64  > into HP.     See the other's comments...     > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.; > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Dec 2004 12:55:24 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)3 Subject: Re: Older StorageWorks Parts Not Available 3 Message-ID: <LMZyNRQcOHBf@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <41D0DF00.D14B76C5@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:H > Well, here's an update. I'm told - by my Silver TAM - that this is notI > just local to older SW gear, it's HP-wide. I'm told by my local support G > people that HP has outsourced their parts delivery to UPS. That means H > "standard" delivery is 5 to seven business days (breaches most serviceE > contracts, bronze and above), expedited delivery 36 to 48 hours and  > same-day delivery is history.  > I > Guess HP is getting out of the hardware business - and the VMS business  > - in a serious way.  > F > It's going to be awfully difficult (if its even possible) to save myE > site as an OpenVMS site, and from this point forward all sites that J > don't depot their own spare parts should be considered "endangered" fromH > a VMS perspective (Alpha is, of course, moot, and Itanic - well, don't > get me started).  E If this is HPs new service model, then I strongly suggest you look at H someone like SMS for your hardware service, especially if you are not onE leading edge technology. You might even recognize some of the support 
 engineers!  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  D         "I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed.D         The U.S. government will lead the American people in and theD         West in general into an unbearable hell and a choking life."   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:28:40 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 3 Subject: Re: Older StorageWorks Parts Not Available , Message-ID: <41D30568.8000502@tsoft-inc.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:    > Dave Froble wrote: >  >>David J Dachtera wrote:  >> >>K >>>...which doesn't say much. The stat.'s so far: six DOAs before I finally 3 >>>found a good one. Stopped looking at that point.  >>> K >>>I'm gonna get with the boss and A/P and see if we can find a way to bill I >>>that back to HP. (My time, time on our gear to test, plus a *GENEROUS* = >>>markup - think "Nieman Marcus" (read: "needless markup").)  >>> Q >>Now you're getting to the issue.  If you have a service CONTRACT that specifies R >>a certain response time, then what you should be doing is reading the fine printN >>of the CONTRACT, and if HP has violated that CONTRACT, resort to the actions >>available to you.  >>: >>Bitching about it here will not help your response time. >> > H > A/P and the legal department are both valid avenues to seek redress atG > this point. However, the boss is out this week. So, we'll see what we # > can do beginning in the new year.  > D > Truth be told, though, I'm more disturbed about the good:DOA ratioH > (currently stands at 1:5) at this point than I am about delivery timesH > (I can start driving to work and go get the damn parts, if that's whatI > it takes to keep the systems up and running - we'll worry about redress A > and legalities once the patient care systems are back on-line).  >  >   P I've been watching for changes in VMS customer support and hardware support for N some time now.  There has been vast declines in such in many parts of HP, but Q I've not seen too much, if any, decline in the VMS arena.  To me this, much more  T than talk, is a prime indicator.  This could indicate that HP is keeping VMS viable.  M Using a company like UPS to store and ship parts is reasonable, and possibly  M better than HP doing it themselves.  After all, when it comes time to ship a  P part, it first must be delivered to UPS or another shipper.  If UPS already has 2 the product, one step is removed from the process.  O That said, HP must supply UPS with good inventory.  I can see it now, UPS asks  P what to do with the returning parts, and some bright eyed beancounter, seeing a L method to keep inventory levels high, on paper, tells UPS to return them to 6 stock.  All it takes is one idiot to ruin a good plan.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:21:43 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>3 Subject: Re: Older StorageWorks Parts Not Available + Message-ID: <41D31FE7.BA5B318D@comcast.net>    Dave Froble wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  >  > > Dave Froble wrote: > >  > >>David J Dachtera wrote:  > >> > >>M > >>>...which doesn't say much. The stat.'s so far: six DOAs before I finally 5 > >>>found a good one. Stopped looking at that point.  > >>> M > >>>I'm gonna get with the boss and A/P and see if we can find a way to bill K > >>>that back to HP. (My time, time on our gear to test, plus a *GENEROUS* ? > >>>markup - think "Nieman Marcus" (read: "needless markup").)  > >>> S > >>Now you're getting to the issue.  If you have a service CONTRACT that specifies T > >>a certain response time, then what you should be doing is reading the fine printP > >>of the CONTRACT, and if HP has violated that CONTRACT, resort to the actions > >>available to you.  > >>< > >>Bitching about it here will not help your response time. > >> > > J > > A/P and the legal department are both valid avenues to seek redress atI > > this point. However, the boss is out this week. So, we'll see what we % > > can do beginning in the new year.  > > F > > Truth be told, though, I'm more disturbed about the good:DOA ratioJ > > (currently stands at 1:5) at this point than I am about delivery timesJ > > (I can start driving to work and go get the damn parts, if that's whatK > > it takes to keep the systems up and running - we'll worry about redress C > > and legalities once the patient care systems are back on-line).  > >  > >  > Q > I've been watching for changes in VMS customer support and hardware support for O > some time now.  There has been vast declines in such in many parts of HP, but R > I've not seen too much, if any, decline in the VMS arena.  To me this, much moreV > than talk, is a prime indicator.  This could indicate that HP is keeping VMS viable. > N > Using a company like UPS to store and ship parts is reasonable, and possiblyN > better than HP doing it themselves.  After all, when it comes time to ship aQ > part, it first must be delivered to UPS or another shipper.  If UPS already has 4 > the product, one step is removed from the process.  G Then again, in a local delivery situation, with life-critical system at F risk, it is more likely - and vastly more acceptable - that parts willH be given to either ethe field service rep. him/herself and/or given to a: local courier service for delivery within the hour or two.  P > That said, HP must supply UPS with good inventory.  I can see it now, UPS asksQ > what to do with the returning parts, and some bright eyed beancounter, seeing a M > method to keep inventory levels high, on paper, tells UPS to return them to 8 > stock.  All it takes is one idiot to ruin a good plan.  E Depends. "Good" would apply to situations that are not time-critical. G I'm guessing there are few VMS systems that can be left down for a week  or more awaiting parts.   3 ...and BTW: that's not "anecdotal", its DOCUMENTED!    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:22:47 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>3 Subject: Re: Older StorageWorks Parts Not Available + Message-ID: <41D32027.7FA55B87@comcast.net>    Bob Kaplow wrote:  > b > In article <41D0DF00.D14B76C5@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:J > > Well, here's an update. I'm told - by my Silver TAM - that this is notK > > just local to older SW gear, it's HP-wide. I'm told by my local support I > > people that HP has outsourced their parts delivery to UPS. That means J > > "standard" delivery is 5 to seven business days (breaches most serviceG > > contracts, bronze and above), expedited delivery 36 to 48 hours and ! > > same-day delivery is history.  > > K > > Guess HP is getting out of the hardware business - and the VMS business  > > - in a serious way.  > > H > > It's going to be awfully difficult (if its even possible) to save myG > > site as an OpenVMS site, and from this point forward all sites that L > > don't depot their own spare parts should be considered "endangered" fromJ > > a VMS perspective (Alpha is, of course, moot, and Itanic - well, don't > > get me started). > G > If this is HPs new service model, then I strongly suggest you look at J > someone like SMS for your hardware service, especially if you are not onG > leading edge technology. You might even recognize some of the support  > engineers!  @ It's been suggested before. May very well be a good possibility,D depending on other factors that we cannot control (certification and such).   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/0  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:03:00 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>u3 Subject: Re: Older StorageWorks Parts Not Availablee, Message-ID: <41D3297E.BBCA5C47@teksavvy.com>  	 Question:y  N When you order a part from HP, are you given the option/possibility to upgrade$ delivery to "air" (aka: overnight) ?  L If you are down, and it is mission critical, paying the extra $50 to get theI part shipped overnight as opposed to UPS ground that takes many many daysn# would be worth it for your company.v   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Dec 2004 11:11:59 -0800 From: hairydamon@hotmail.com1 Subject: SCSI ON A VAX 4000/500 - WHAT DO I NEED?rB Message-ID: <1104347519.289666.74980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   Hi  ? I have acquired a VAX 4000/500A - unfortunately it had no disksP> what-so-ever but I have managed to acquire a DSSI disk for it.  D I plan to run VMS 7.3 on this machine but don't particularly want toE rely on old, difficult to obtain DSSI disks - I would much rather runI the box with SCSI disks.  G My trouble is trying to identify what my options are for converting thenF box to SCSI - I'm not a DEC/VAX hardware guru so codes like KXGYAFA-10E (sorry being cheeky) don't mean a lot to me. From what I can find out0F there are two options some sort of QBUS card or a DSSI-SCSI convertor.C I don't really fancy the QBUS card as I hear varying horror stories-F about that ranging from it's slower than a geological age, to "it onlyG works with certain SCSI devices....and in any case not CDROMs or Disks"o% or it won't actually support booting.s  C The DSSI-SCSI convertor (HSD10?) option sounds like the best bet. I?G assume it is some sort of box of tricks or electronic doo-ma-hicky thatuC you plug a DSSI cable in and one side and magically it comes out as  SCSI on the other side?e  G If I type SHOW DEV or SHOW DSSI at the >>> prompt it does list two DSSI E controllers/busses with IDs of 6 or 7 (which correspond to the littledG plugs on the front on the box). If I type SHOW SCSI it returns nothing,e0 no errors, nothing (except the next >>> prompt).  D ANy help, details of Hardware conroller codes or designations that I@ need or descriptions of what these SCSI controllers are actually$ like...would be gratefully received.   Regardsi   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:17:02 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> 5 Subject: Re: SCSI ON A VAX 4000/500 - WHAT DO I NEED?o' Message-ID: <41D31ECE.8010901@MMaz.com>,   hairydamon@hotmail.com wrote:l   >Hi. >P@ >I have acquired a VAX 4000/500A - unfortunately it had no disks? >what-so-ever but I have managed to acquire a DSSI disk for it.: >2E >I plan to run VMS 7.3 on this machine but don't particularly want to4F >rely on old, difficult to obtain DSSI disks - I would much rather run >the box with SCSI disks.a >    >lI What you are looking for is a KZCCA which can be very hard to get a hold  G of...  The proper model for your system is: DS-KZCCA-CB, but note that <H Compaq/HP in their infinite stupidity, disabled the on-board 100MB NIC, I and the SCSI devices connected to this controller CANNOT be boot devices rF since the console cannot see them - you must have VMS running so that = the proper drivers can be loaded to recognize the hardware...    Barryn   -- l  < Barry Treahy, Jr                     E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com< Midwest Microwave, Inc.                  Phone: 480/314-1320< Vice President & CIO                      FAX:  480/661-7028  I                        ... but it's a DRY HEAT!                              ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:30:25 -0600a2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>5 Subject: Re: SCSI ON A VAX 4000/500 - WHAT DO I NEED?p+ Message-ID: <41D321F1.3E6F7461@comcast.net>t   hairydamon@hotmail.com wrote:i > [snip]E > The DSSI-SCSI convertor (HSD10?) option sounds like the best bet. IdI > assume it is some sort of box of tricks or electronic doo-ma-hicky thateE > you plug a DSSI cable in and one side and magically it comes out asi > SCSI on the other side?a  G Indeed. Search eBay for disk "shelves" such as BA350-xx (where "xx" caneG be any of a number of combinations). The HSD10 will occupy one location E in teh shelf and will serve up disks on the shelf via DSSI. They will  appear as DU devices./  D You'll still need some info. on how to configure the HSD10, but thisE should be one of many stepping stones on your way to what you seek...a   ...grasshopper. :-)s   -- f David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:W" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:28:53 -0500I% From: "vax, 9000" <vax9000@gmail.com>75 Subject: Re: SCSI ON A VAX 4000/500 - WHAT DO I NEED?w: Message-ID: <cqvau9$etg$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>   David J Dachtera wrote:e   > hairydamon@hotmail.com wrote:r	 >> [snip]uF >> The DSSI-SCSI convertor (HSD10?) option sounds like the best bet. IJ >> assume it is some sort of box of tricks or electronic doo-ma-hicky thatF >> you plug a DSSI cable in and one side and magically it comes out as >> SCSI on the other side? > I > Indeed. Search eBay for disk "shelves" such as BA350-xx (where "xx" canmI > be any of a number of combinations). The HSD10 will occupy one locationnG > in teh shelf and will serve up disks on the shelf via DSSI. They wille > appear as DU devices.d > F > You'll still need some info. on how to configure the HSD10, but thisG > should be one of many stepping stones on your way to what you seek...gL Or you might want to wait till my MSCP SCSI controller is ready. I am addingI CDROM support at this point. Yes, My MSCP SCSI controller configures SCSI J HD automatically. It supports SCSI disk from 5MB to 2GB at this point, andH will support up to ... infinity (virtually) in the near future. Whatever, SimH pdp11_rq.c does, The controller can do.  	 vax, 9000a   >  > ...grasshopper. :-)r >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 02:43:06 GMTt( From: "P. Thompson" <no-spam@new.rr.com>5 Subject: Re: SCSI ON A VAX 4000/500 - WHAT DO I NEED?iC Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0412292045430.787@localhost.localdomain>d  1 On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 hairydamon@hotmail.com wrote:d  E > The DSSI-SCSI convertor (HSD10?) option sounds like the best bet. ImI > assume it is some sort of box of tricks or electronic doo-ma-hicky thattE > you plug a DSSI cable in and one side and magically it comes out asa > SCSI on the other side?c  F I just picked up a Winchester systems DSSI tape unit on epay for $9. IJ contains a CMD CDI-4000 DSSI -> SCSI unit in it which doesn't much care ifH disks or tapes are plugged into it.  I have a CDROM on it at the moment.  B Device  SID Vendor  Model   Rev  Dev Stat  Maint Oper Maint StatusJ ------- --- ------- ------- ---- --------- ---------- --------------------* DIA300  0-0 TOSHIBA CD-ROM  3605 AVAILABLE     ---16 Lord, protect me from those to whom you speak directly+ Leave the no-spam in, correct email addressl   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Dec 2004 21:21:37 -0800 From: "Ben" <cellctl@lycos.com>o5 Subject: Re: SCSI ON A VAX 4000/500 - WHAT DO I NEED?rC Message-ID: <1104384097.330286.264390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   > > Yep. Why errors? You have nothing, so it just shows nothing. Otherwise, youE > would also see the controller there. But this "SCSI" might refer tot
 the KZQSA,D > which might be okay as CD-ROM controller, but i think, VMS doesn't support hard > disks on this. >a  G KZQSA definately works as a CD-ROM controller... I've used it to boot ahG VAX 4000-400 back before I sold the whole lot off.  Supported or not, IyD don't see why you couldn't boot a hard disk from the card unless the? hardware/software specifically prevents it.  (but I never triedk that...)   -Ben   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Dec 2004 21:30:46 -0800 From: "Ben" <cellctl@lycos.com>a' Subject: Re: Supported Itanium hardwarevC Message-ID: <1104384646.688227.306370@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>u  7 For one, Sparc is a different archetecture alltogether.o  C The Itanium 1 in the i2000 is that significantly different from thei? Itanium 2 in the rx systems?  ... or are you referring to otherw: hardware besides just the CPU?  Thanks for your time, btw.   -Ben   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Dec 2004 22:12:50 -0800 From: "Ben" <cellctl@lycos.com>f' Subject: Re: Supported Itanium hardwareeC Message-ID: <1104384565.262751.299640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>l  7 For one, Sparc is a different archetecture alltogether.p  C The Itanium 1 in the i2000 is that significantly different from thet? Itanium 2 in the rx systems?  ... or are you referring to othera: hardware besides just the CPU?  Thanks for your time, btw.   -Ben   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Dec 2004 21:43:26 -0800/ From: stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au (Stuart Norris) ! Subject: TeX / LaTeX for Open VMSr= Message-ID: <51262235.0412292143.4e026608@posting.google.com>    Hi All,a  $ Firstly thanks for your responses.    @ I am glad that there is interest in LaTeX and TeX on Open VMS.  A I know that many Australian Universities use LaTeX on Open VMS.  p  ? I am interested in the postscript fonts with Open VMS LaTeX.   r@ (I personally OWN the MathTime font in the standard font format)   Thanks   Happy new Year.t   Stuart   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Dec 2004 13:30:17 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) Subject: Re: tick, tick, ticka3 Message-ID: <i74GBiEHjAgT@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  \ In article <41C9108C.2A4E08F9@teksavvy.com>, Jf Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Rob Brooks wrote:04 >> > Heard Q4 from local HP folks just this month... >> uE >> It ain't gonna be Q4, obviously; mid-February is much more likely.9 > N > Actually, The VMS engineers have found a way to slow down all of the world'sP > clock (using the code used to control speed of the VMS system clock), and thisO > will stretch significantly the amount of time between now and end of 2004. So  > there is still hope :-) :-)f  L Is HP on a different fiscal year than DEC was. Maybe their Q4 is Jan-Mar. If" not, maybe it is for the "new HP".  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  D         "I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed.D         The U.S. government will lead the American people in and theD         West in general into an unbearable hell and a choking life."   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:06:57 -0800n0 From: Greg Cagle <gregc@removethisgregcagle.com> Subject: Re: tick, tick, tickC0 Message-ID: <10t6ak2jqqe4caa@corp.supernews.com>   HP's fiscal year is Nov-Oct.   - Greg   Bob Kaplow wrote:-   > N > Is HP on a different fiscal year than DEC was. Maybe their Q4 is Jan-Mar. If$ > not, maybe it is for the "new HP".   -- N
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:25:38 -0700D+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>O< Subject: [Fwd: Re: SCSI ON A VAX 4000/500 - WHAT DO I NEED?]' Message-ID: <41D320D2.4080002@MMaz.com>   " -------- Original Message --------   hairydamon@hotmail.com wrote:w   >Hil >f@ >I have acquired a VAX 4000/500A - unfortunately it had no disks? >what-so-ever but I have managed to acquire a DSSI disk for it.O >UE >I plan to run VMS 7.3 on this machine but don't particularly want toKF >rely on old, difficult to obtain DSSI disks - I would much rather run >the box with SCSI disks.a >    > I What you are looking for is a KZCCA which can be very hard to get a hold  G of...  The proper model for your system is: DS-KZCCA-CB, but note that lH Compaq/HP in their infinite stupidity, disabled the on-board 100MB NIC, I and the SCSI devices connected to this controller CANNOT be boot devices pF since the console cannot see them - you must have VMS running so that = the proper drivers can be loaded to recognize the hardware...    ---  I neglated to also point out that the KZCCA is not LVD, but rather HVD which means that you must also buy drives that no one makes or sells, or purchase a HVD/LVD SCSI convertor...   BarryT     -- U  < Barry Treahy, Jr                     E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com< Midwest Microwave, Inc.                  Phone: 480/314-1320< Vice President & CIO                      FAX:  480/661-7028  H                       ... but it's a DRY HEAT!                                     -- l  < Barry Treahy, Jr                     E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com< Midwest Microwave, Inc.                  Phone: 480/314-1320< Vice President & CIO                      FAX:  480/661-7028  I                        ... but it's a DRY HEAT!                          a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:29:34 -0500h From: "Darrell" <no@spam.here> Subject: Re: ~ Happy New Year ~g/ Message-ID: <4OKdnRbbp5Cjv07cRVn-3Q@rogers.com>e  6 "Darrell Larose" <cota348@rogers.com> wrote in message1 news:6XIGBLCP38350.6862731481@anonymous.poster...a > FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
 >    About
 > JF MEZEI >r Happy New Year COWARD!!!   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:07:13 -0500i$ From: "Kerry Liles" <me@privacy.net> Subject: Re: ~ Happy New Year ~o, Message-ID: <33go4hF4172l9U1@individual.net>  I He doesnt seem to be a coward - his name address and email etc are in theuE original post. It is tiresome however... I wish he would go away too.r    ) "Darrell" <no@spam.here> wrote in message ) news:4OKdnRbbp5Cjv07cRVn-3Q@rogers.com...o8 > "Darrell Larose" <cota348@rogers.com> wrote in message3 > news:6XIGBLCP38350.6862731481@anonymous.poster...e > > FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS > >    About > > JF MEZEI > >/ > Happy New Year COWARD!!! >d >e >P   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:05:42 -0500w From: "Darrell" <no@spam.here> Subject: Re: ~ Happy New Year ~ / Message-ID: <87adnQxriotL207cRVn-2g@rogers.com>e  / "Kerry Liles" <me@privacy.net> wrote in messageo& news:33go4hF4172l9U1@individual.net...K > He doesnt seem to be a coward - his name address and email etc are in theoG > original post. It is tiresome however... I wish he would go away too.n >eH It's my address, e-mail, phone number that COWARD! (aka Nomen Nescio) isI forging on these posts. The JF FAQ is annoying me even more, as I get theoK late night phone calls, and other harrassment. The COWARD has even reportedtF me to my ISP (Rogers) but they know I am not making the posts. When heI starts posting as Kerry Liles, and posts your name, address, phone numberaK and e-mail address how would you react. He has posted on various newsgroupssL that I am a gay paedophile, he has posted to gay sex boards, to various drugJ boards that I am a drug addict. Overall I am getting totally pissed off. II flamed an anonymous poster (Nomen Nescio, default id on dizum.com). Hides4L behind various anonymous mail2news gateways because he is a ballless coward,E he can post my personal contact info, while he hides in his basement.u   The Real Darrell Larose  + > "Darrell" <no@spam.here> wrote in messagen+ > news:4OKdnRbbp5Cjv07cRVn-3Q@rogers.com...r: > > "Darrell Larose" <cota348@rogers.com> wrote in message5 > > news:6XIGBLCP38350.6862731481@anonymous.poster...t  > > > FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS > > >    About > > > JF MEZEI > > >  > > Happy New Year COWARD!!! > >m > >  > >n >w >y   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.724 ************************dal wave in . Message-ID: <Xns95D0963BC90Ann48@199.125.85.9>  0 Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in, news:+hV4QBdYamVl@eisner.encompasserve.org: G > Yes, I had been wondering why all the reports of damage from Thailand H > but not from Vietnam which is also on the Indochin