0 INFO-VAX	Sat, 07 Feb 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 74      Contents: Re: Alpha PC64s to give away Alpha PC64s to give away CXX patches - where are? Re: CXX patches - where are? Re: CXX patches - where are?@ Re: DECserver(tm) Trade-Up Promotion ~ Now through June 30, 2004, Re: Floating point arithmetic support in DCL, Re: Floating point arithmetic support in DCL, Re: Floating point arithmetic support in DCL" Re: Heads up on the latest UCX ECO" Re: Heads up on the latest UCX ECO" Re: Heads up on the latest UCX ECO" Re: Heads up on the latest UCX ECO Re: Hobbyist questions?  Re: Hobbyist questions?  IKON Printer library modules. & Mail /PERS cannot start with a number?* Re: Mail /PERS cannot start with a number?* Re: Mail /PERS cannot start with a number?* Re: Mail /PERS cannot start with a number? Re: Moderate this group 0 Re: New Variant MyDoom.B targeting Microsoft.com1 Re: OpenGL Drawing, Motif on PseudoColor, ZLXp-E1 D Re: OpenVMS  vs unix security ... still waiting Andrew for response!D Re: OpenVMS  vs unix security ... still waiting Andrew for response! Re: Rumours of (CPU) Wars  Shannon on Itanium Re: Shannon on Itanium RE: Shannon on Itanium  SMTP Not Rejecting Unknown Users  Re: VMS ODS-5 and Macintosh OS X VMS Systems Disposal Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? RE: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? RE: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: [MOZILLA] What's current ? Re: [MOZILLA] What's current ? Re: [MOZILLA] What's current ? Re: [MOZILLA] What's current ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2004 14:29:32 -0800 & From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)% Subject: Re: Alpha PC64s to give away = Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0402061429.5c1ab452@posting.google.com>   X "Russ Dittmer" <russ@dittmer.com> wrote in message news:<4023efb4_2@news1.prserv.net>... > Hello  > G > I have 3 DEC Alpha PC64s that I'd be willing to give to anyone who is 5 > willing to pay the shipping from northern Illinois.  > J > If you only want the boards, that's fine, I'll scrap the cases, but once+ > again, the shipping needs to be paid for.  > D > I have a great discount with FedEx, so the cost should be minimal. > % > Please respond to russ@dittmer.com.  >  > RD    F Heh!  So much for selling my old one on ebay!  One thing though; these@ were the boards that took the special AT-style power supply withD additional 3.3v supply cables; they are not all that easy to find so* any takers might want to be aware of that.   Rich   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:45:43 -0600' From: "Russ Dittmer" <russ@dittmer.com> ! Subject: Alpha PC64s to give away ) Message-ID: <4023efb4_2@news1.prserv.net>    Hello   E I have 3 DEC Alpha PC64s that I'd be willing to give to anyone who is 3 willing to pay the shipping from northern Illinois.   H If you only want the boards, that's fine, I'll scrap the cases, but once) again, the shipping needs to be paid for.   B I have a great discount with FedEx, so the cost should be minimal.  # Please respond to russ@dittmer.com.    RD   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 20:29:39 +0100 7 From: Robert Trawinski <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl> ! Subject: CXX patches - where are? / Message-ID: <c00pv4$gm1$1@bozon2.softax.com.pl>   I I've just installed CXX 6.5-004 on OpenVMS 7.3.-1. When I compile my old   CXX files compiler dies withI access violation. Are there any patches for CXX? And where? I can't find   CXX patch on ITRC.   Robert   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 22:14:55 +0000 (UTC)6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)% Subject: Re: CXX patches - where are? 0 Message-ID: <newscache$ifoosh$sn1$1@news.sil.at>  i In article <c00pv4$gm1$1@bozon2.softax.com.pl>, Robert Trawinski <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl> writes: J >I've just installed CXX 6.5-004 on OpenVMS 7.3.-1. When I compile my old  >CXX files compiler dies with J >access violation. Are there any patches for CXX? And where? I can't find  >CXX patch on ITRC.   0 Yes, ITRC is way behind the systems it replaced./ I know of an V6.5A (AKA ECO1) which is V6.5-034 I But I don't know where it is from. Maybe it was www.support.compaq.com.au    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 01:24:51 +0000 (UTC)6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)% Subject: Re: CXX patches - where are? 0 Message-ID: <newscache$18xosh$p42$1@news.sil.at>  i In article <c00pv4$gm1$1@bozon2.softax.com.pl>, Robert Trawinski <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl> writes: J >I've just installed CXX 6.5-004 on OpenVMS 7.3.-1. When I compile my old  >CXX files compiler dies with J >access violation. Are there any patches for CXX? And where? I can't find  >CXX patch on ITRC.    I just found an old URL again   5 	ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/C-CXX/openvms/cxx/   	 and voila    -Peter   PS: There is also   3 	ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/C-CXX/openvms/c/ 3 	ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/fortran/OpenVMS/ - 	ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/math/cxml/   ) Don't know if they are still populated...  --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2004 14:19:43 -0800 & From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)I Subject: Re: DECserver(tm) Trade-Up Promotion ~ Now through June 30, 2004 = Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0402061419.1646acb9@posting.google.com>   v susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) wrote in message news:<857e9e41.0402050833.1c7784d2@posting.google.com>... > Dear Newsgroup,  > G > I recevied this today and wanted to pass it along.  I used to work in G > the Networking group at DEC and we had some really great products its + > nice to know that the heritage continues.  >  > Warm Regards as always,  > Sue  >  >   F Maybe this will help with a problem we have.  I've got a few customersD running DS700s (pre-flash mostly) that came with or were upgraded toD DNAS v1.5 and a couple that were upgraded to DNAS V2.2.  The currentB DNAS is V2.6, and will not run on many of the older DECservers (or% will run with restricted capability).   F The customer with the V1.5s needs to upgrade one to at least 2.3 (2.3aF preferred) in order to get some RAS problems taken care of... and theyA can't.  DNPG will only provide the current 2.6 release, and won't C provide older versions even via authenticated download (or email or E whatever)... I've been keeping an eye on Ebay for months just in case F someone puts a newer DNAS disk up for auction.  THe only media we have is the V2.2.  A Depending on what kind of trade-in allowance is provided we might B finally have a solution.  Not the best one, but if it works and is within the customer budget...   C Heh!  I wonder how much you get for trading in a DECserver 200... I A note that the 100s were not included, but our last pair of (still E operational) DS100s were consigned to the dumpster a couple of months  ago after removing the fans.   Rich   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:26:19 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>5 Subject: Re: Floating point arithmetic support in DCL 2 Message-ID: <voVUb.13966$Xs.4645@news.cpqcorp.net>   John Smith wrote: M > I lost track of this thread for a long while...why not just pass parameters " > out to an APL interpreter?   ;-) > I > Arbitrary precsision, ceil, floor, round, string manipulation, you name & > it....all in one terse line of code. > J > Digital had a decent one, which I used extensively in the 80's on VMS. I4 > wonder which dusty shelf the source is sitting on. >   G It is sitting just 2 cubicles away from me and isn't quite as dusty as  + you'd expect.  Perhaps someday... ..  .   .    --   John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 22:36:47 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 5 Subject: Re: Floating point arithmetic support in DCL F Message-ID: <3GUUb.9674$vD8.3246@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  K I lost track of this thread for a long while...why not just pass parameters   out to an APL interpreter?   ;-)  G Arbitrary precsision, ceil, floor, round, string manipulation, you name $ it....all in one terse line of code.  H Digital had a decent one, which I used extensively in the 80's on VMS. I2 wonder which dusty shelf the source is sitting on.       Guy Peleg wrote:G > Okay, you have convinced me that F$MATH is a bad idea. I will look at  > native floating point support H > and the amount of efforts involved. Who knows maybe we will be able to > provide it for V8.2......  >  > More to come soon..... >  >  > Guy = > "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@hp.com_remove_this> wrote in message / > news:EWTFb.11204$bD4.3662@news.cpqcorp.net...  >> Hi Folks, >>9 >> Here is your chance to influence the future of VMS....  >>C >> I have investigated the possibility of supporting floating point ; >> arithmetic in DCL. The intention is to support something  >> similar to the following: >>	 >> a=1.23 	 >> b=2.44  >> >> write sys$output a+b  >> 3.67  >>B >> My intention is to support the following operands : +,-,/ and * >>C >> If this feature is important to you please drop me a line with a ? >> short justification. Assuming the response will be positive, ) >> I will try to implement this for V8.2.  >>% >> Merry Christmas and happy new year  >> >> Guy   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:09:38 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 5 Subject: Re: Floating point arithmetic support in DCL G Message-ID: <61WUb.11001$vD8.8277@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    John Reagan wrote: > John Smith wrote: C >> I lost track of this thread for a long while...why not just pass . >> parameters out to an APL interpreter?   ;-) >>E >> Arbitrary precsision, ceil, floor, round, string manipulation, you , >> name it....all in one terse line of code. >>D >> Digital had a decent one, which I used extensively in the 80's on< >> VMS. I wonder which dusty shelf the source is sitting on. >> > H > It is sitting just 2 cubicles away from me and isn't quite as dusty as- > you'd expect.  Perhaps someday... ..  .   .     H Excellent!!  It would be a good solution to 'back-end' Guy's thoughts onH extending DCL for floating point and other bits, but somehow I doubt youI could convince management, though it's not like it's any more arcane than  things like Perl.   B  I wrote a good portion of a securities trading and analtyics/riskI management system in APL & Fortran, with a bit of cobol thrown in for the G money calculations (sorry Tom...no PL/1). We used HDS vt200 clones with G downloadable character sets for the most part, but I also used a Compaq K luggable and STSC APL to do some code development out of the office. Moving F code between the PC APL and the VAX APL interpreters wasn't difficult.  J Using APL was great - some investment banker would dream up a new securityL and often I'd have less than a day's notice of some quirky new feature whichI I'd have to program, test, and go live. Couldn't have done it in anything  but APL.   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 19:07:23 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)+ Subject: Re: Heads up on the latest UCX ECO . Message-ID: <c00olb$q5c$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes in article <MRs6vUFDGkks@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 6 Feb 2004 12:02:04 -0600: 
 >	Problem: > D >	A problem exists in the anti-SPAM route-through check which allows: >	a SPAMmer to trick the SMTP receiver into relaying SPAM.  L >Obviously, I am not going to get into a discussion about what configurationM >is vulnerable; if you are on support, you can get that information from your  >local CSC.   F OK but answer me this if you will.  Have the spammers figured out thisF trick, or was it discovered by an admin who was just testing?  (If the? former is true, it makes installing the ECO a bit more urgent.)   0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2004 13:24:32 -0600 B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)+ Subject: Re: Heads up on the latest UCX ECO 3 Message-ID: <lLwMQ5hq09H$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <c00olb$q5c$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes:  > clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes in article <MRs6vUFDGkks@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 6 Feb 2004 12:02:04 -0600:  >>	Problem:  >>E >>	A problem exists in the anti-SPAM route-through check which allows ; >>	a SPAMmer to trick the SMTP receiver into relaying SPAM.  > M >>Obviously, I am not going to get into a discussion about what configuration N >>is vulnerable; if you are on support, you can get that information from your >>local CSC. > H > OK but answer me this if you will.  Have the spammers figured out thisH > trick, or was it discovered by an admin who was just testing?  (If theA > former is true, it makes installing the ECO a bit more urgent.)  >    It was discovered by myself.  L I reported it after discovering it while doing some testing prior to rollingK out a new configuration, and at the time, the UK CSC said that they had not  seen any other reports.   I I guess that I'm just more paranoid than others when doing testing... :-)    Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 22:29:30 GMT . From: "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca>+ Subject: Re: Heads up on the latest UCX ECO ( Message-ID: <ezUUb.304$964.111@edtnps84>   Where do you get this ?   G "Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote in 5 message news:MRs6vUFDGkks@eisner.encompasserve.org... H > Now that it's been published in the latest ECO notes, I thought that IH > would draw your attention to this in case spammers are looking out for > these kinds of things: > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------! > ECO I 20-AUG-2003 Alpha and VAX  > 
 > Problem: > D > A problem exists in the anti-SPAM route-through check which allows: > a SPAMmer to trick the SMTP receiver into relaying SPAM. >  > Deliverables:  > ! > TCPIP$SMTP_RECIVER.EXE V5.3-18I  >  > Reference: > @ > PTR 70-5-2370 / CFS.102136 / Req Id: GB_G07885 / UCX Note 9907 > TCPIP_BUGS Note 2960J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 
 > Some notes:  > D > 1) When I did my testing prior to reporting this, I only found oneE > infrastructure configuration that was vulnerable; I have no idea if * > this is a popular or rare configuration. > F > 2) Just because I only found one configuration vulnerability doesn't  > mean that there aren't others. > J > 3) The SMTP image that was provided to me has been working just fine forD > several months in my configuration and is passing my ISP's (Demon)G > open relay testing, as well as blocking all the various attempts from  > the Internet to relay mail.  > ? > Obviously, I am not going to get into a discussion about what 
 configuration I > is vulnerable; if you are on support, you can get that information from  your > local CSC. >  > Simon. >  > --  = > Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP H > SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked	 companies    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2004 19:13:27 -0600 B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)+ Subject: Re: Heads up on the latest UCX ECO 3 Message-ID: <Yz7kSJhkHb96@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <ezUUb.304$964.111@edtnps84>, "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca> writes:  > Where do you get this ?  >   G One of the annoyances of patch kit notifications now been weekly... :-)   H There is now a command procedure (written by Graham Burley) that runs onJ Eisner and lifts any new patch kit announcements direct from the patch kitG FTP site and posts them on Eisner without having to wait for the weekly 
 bulletins.  6 I got the ECO announcement from the posting on Eisner.   Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:37:33 -0800 - From: dundas@caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III)   Subject: Re: Hobbyist questions?< Message-ID: <dundas-0602041237330001@dundas-mac.caltech.edu>  
 Glen and Bob,   3 In article <U8qAORgwaHlZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, , koehler@eisner.aspm.encompasserve.org wrote:  E > In article <c3JUb.186376$5V2.909353@attbi_s53>, glen herrmannsfeldt  <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes: > > = > > If one wanted to run VAX/VMS version 4 or 5, or so, where  > > would one get those CDs? > H >    VMS 4 didn't ship on CDs.  You'ld have to find somebody with a copy >    and then copy it to CD. > J >    I know several folks who are tracking down old versions of VMS they'dG >    like to run.  I don't know of any that are having tons of success.   B Due to phenomenal response from this news group, I am successfullyB tracking down versions 4.6 and 4.7 and well as some of the layeredE products from that era.  When I make sense of it all (a few days) and J verify that everything works (a few weeks) I will make these available forA download.  I presume there is no problem making such old versions 
 available?   Thanks,    John   --   John A. Dundas III2 Director, Information Technology Services, Caltech+ Mail Code: 014-81, Pasadena, CA  91125-8100 % Phone: 626.395.3392 FAX: 626.449.6973    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 02:02:19 GMT 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>  Subject: Re: Hobbyist questions?/ Message-ID: <LGXUb.189466$5V2.997318@attbi_s53>    John A. Dundas III wrote:    (snip)  D > Due to phenomenal response from this news group, I am successfullyD > tracking down versions 4.6 and 4.7 and well as some of the layeredG > products from that era.  When I make sense of it all (a few days) and L > verify that everything works (a few weeks) I will make these available forC > download.  I presume there is no problem making such old versions  > available?  < As far as I understand, only recently looking into this, the: hobby license works for any previous version, back to 1.0.  < I don't know the details of PAKs for older versions, though.  ; For which versions should we expect TCP/IP to be available?    -- glen    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 04:40:20 GMT 1 From: "news.verizon.net" <tim.flynn9@verizon.net> & Subject: IKON Printer library modules.5 Message-ID: <U_ZUb.2615$M8.1277@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>   J Looking for information on migrating from HP Laser print libraries to IKONI printer libraries. I've received very little information on ESC sequences E etc. from the vendor contact. Any information is greatly appreciated!   	 Tim Flynn    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:05:10 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com/ Subject: Mail /PERS cannot start with a number? Q Message-ID: <OF35689C0B.F1F155F9-ON85256E32.0073475A-85256E32.00745251@metso.com>   7 This fell out of another thread, but I thought I'd ask:   % $ mail/subj="Test"/pers="1-timer" nl: 6 %MAIL-E-ILLPERNAM, 1-timer is an illegal personal name  
 $HELP/MESSAGE   0 ILLPERNAM,  'string' is an illegal personal name  "   Facility:     MAIL, Mail Utility  C   Explanation:  The personal name you specified contains an illegal G                 combination of characters, such as multiple consecutive G                 spaces, special characters that MAIL cannot process, or +                 unbalanced quotation marks.   .   User Action:  Specify a valid personal name.    < This is not documented in HELP MAIL /PERS nor does it square= with HELP/MESSAGE.  It is enclosed in quotation marks and the 2 error occurs with or without the hyphen-character.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 21:25:00 GMT 4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)3 Subject: Re: Mail /PERS cannot start with a number? 0 Message-ID: <MCTUb.185592$Rc4.1417369@attbi_s54>  p In article <OF35689C0B.F1F155F9-ON85256E32.0073475A-85256E32.00745251@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes:8 !This fell out of another thread, but I thought I'd ask: ! & !$ mail/subj="Test"/pers="1-timer" nl:7 !%MAIL-E-ILLPERNAM, 1-timer is an illegal personal name  !  !$HELP/MESSAGE ! 1 !ILLPERNAM,  'string' is an illegal personal name  ! # !  Facility:     MAIL, Mail Utility  ! D !  Explanation:  The personal name you specified contains an illegalH !                combination of characters, such as multiple consecutiveH !                spaces, special characters that MAIL cannot process, or, !                unbalanced quotation marks. ! / !  User Action:  Specify a valid personal name.  !  ! = !This is not documented in HELP MAIL /PERS nor does it square > !with HELP/MESSAGE.  It is enclosed in quotation marks and the3 !error occurs with or without the hyphen-character.  !    Hi Norm,  O The restriction in Personal_Name is noted elsewhere; specifically in HELP MAIL:    SET-SHOW     PERSONAL_NAME   
     Parameter              "text-string"   H          Specifies the string following your node name and user name forD          the From: field of mail messages you send. You must encloseF          the string in quotation marks; otherwise, Mail converts it toH          uppercase letters. You must begin the string with an alphabeticG          character and avoid two consecutive embedded spaces within the D          string. The length of the text string should not exceed 127          characters.  L It would be nice, of course, if the same information were duplicated in HELP6 MAIL/PERS (and HELP/MESS ILLPERNAM), as you suggest...   !  !   J __________________________________________________________________________A Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own" K bMradAhamiPltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt     "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-'  0                                          with @"   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 03:29:12 GMT 4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)3 Subject: Re: Mail /PERS cannot start with a number? / Message-ID: <cYYUb.109121$U%5.564471@attbi_s03>   V In article <4024583F.42C1312C@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: !"Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:O !> It would be nice, of course, if the same information were duplicated in HELP 9 !> MAIL/PERS (and HELP/MESS ILLPERNAM), as you suggest...  ! N !I am curious. What in the VMS mail logic/system would require that a personalO !name start with a special/restricted character (as opposed to any character) ?   J Well, nothing would *require* the use of a numeric to start off a personalN name, but those folks who *wanted* to use one (for whatever reason) would not  be allowed to do so.  ; Say I were a Dylan fan, and wanted to show it to the world:   & MAIL> send/pers="4th Time Around" brad> %MAIL-E-ILLPERNAM, 4th Time Around is an illegal personal name   Or Hendrix:   < MAIL> send/pers="1983...(A Merman I should turn to be)" bradO %MAIL-E-ILLPERNAM, 1983...(A Merman I should turn to be) is an illegal personal  name   :-)  You get the idea...  J __________________________________________________________________________A Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own" K bMradAhamiPltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt     "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-'  0                                          with @"   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 22:15:34 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>3 Subject: Re: Mail /PERS cannot start with a number? ) Message-ID: <4024583F.42C1312C@istop.com>    "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote: N > It would be nice, of course, if the same information were duplicated in HELP8 > MAIL/PERS (and HELP/MESS ILLPERNAM), as you suggest...  M I am curious. What in the VMS mail logic/system would require that a personal N name start with a special/restricted character (as opposed to any character) ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 23:19:26 -07004 From: "Dale E. Coy" <daleecoy@obfuscation.spinn.net>  Subject: Re: Moderate this group0 Message-ID: <10290rg3kkk2ocb@corp.supernews.com>   > Richard B. Gilbert espoused:K > > If the nutcase were a normal person, he probably would tire of it.  I'd  > > say he's clearly obsessed! > > J > > I too would vote for going moderated.  It's not just this nutcase thatK > > has led me in this direction.  There is an incredible amount of "noise" K > > here.  I could cite what has to be one of the longest running trolls on G > > record and the people who keep responding to him, the "64 bit 8086" G > > stuff, the people who think they could manage DEC, Compaq and/or HP F > > better than the people actually being paid to do it and on and on. > > C > > I read this group, when I have  time, for VMS related material. 3 > > Moderation would/should lose most of the noise.  >   K May I suggest an alternative?   DECUServe is available.  And it is (gently) 
 moderated.  H Sixteen years ago, DECUS US Chapter started the online DECUServe system.- The objective was to support mostly-technical K online discussions and mutual support for hardware and software of interest , to DECUS members.  A second objective was toD provide a friendly community atmosphere for other discussion topics.  E DECUServe still provides those services, and more.  Technical content 7 includes over 50 technical conferences (200,000 notes), H has never lost an answer, and includes the archives of Larry Kilgallen's1 Pageswapper system and the OA SIG's OASIS system.   J Technical quality (signal) is high, responses to new questions are usually. rapid, and unwanted off-topic stuff (noise) is notably absent.   D In 1987, the community technical interests emphasized PDP-11 and VAX7 hardware, associated operating systems, and application A software.  All of that is still available.  Today, about half the 3 discussions are OpenVMS-centric, and a lot of other H interests (Security, WWW, PCs of various flavors, Windows, UNIX, various* hobbies and interests...) have been added.  I WHY SHOULD YOU CARE?  Because those resources are available to you in two  different ways:   G VIA THE WEB:  If you're hunting an answer that's already in 16 years of / technical archives, 35 of DECUServe's technical > conferences can be read (and SEARCHED)  at   www.decuserve.org  E The web site also has one-click access to the OpenVMS FAQ, and to the 4 OpenVMS Patch List.  However, this is all read-only.  H To be able to ASK questions, and for other features, log in to DECUServe	 directly.   E VIA TELNET:  DECUServe effectively uses DEC Notes as its conferencing 2 system, and most VMS folks find the character-cellH interface easy to use - perhaps after a short tour through the DECUServe4 Users Guide (on the web site).  Telnet is required -I perhaps by a VT-100-style emulator, or by using the Java applet available  through the web site.   I To sign up:  just Telnet to decuserve.org, use username REGISTRATION, and 3 follow the bouncing ball.  It's nice if you sign up I using accurate information, and DECUServe won't sell it to anybody.  Oh - 1 there's no fee, and no requirement to be a member  of any organization.  K Doing that gets you a regular account on an OpenVMS system that is superbly . managed by volunteers.   You'll be able to useI the DEC Notes software to ask questions (and help the community with your 0 answers).  DEC Notes provides an "Unseen Map" to" track notes you have already read.  H DECUServe provides a reasonably full set of OpenVMS software, as well as1 MultiNet and PMDF.  You get an email account that I benefits from excellent inbound filtering.  You can set up a personal web 2 page(s).  Other things too numerous to mention, inC a friendly environment.  And many folks on DECUServe find that it's 7 beneficial to have a VMS account on "another" system to : occasionally facilitate testing on their "regular" system.  L I apologize for the lengthy message - and I'll be happy to answer questions,/ or just have you join us on DECUServe.  You can = send email to me as coy@decuserve.org, or daleecoy@spinn.net.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2004 11:15:10 -0800 ' From: nimishdalal@catholic.org (Nimish) 9 Subject: Re: New Variant MyDoom.B targeting Microsoft.com = Message-ID: <a2dd6e31.0402061115.378956ae@posting.google.com>   E Thank you Brian I got ur point. So pls can u suggest me how can I get ? rid of those mails coming on my email id? I will be grateful if B someone helps me to do so as my inbox gets filled with those scrap mails. "Tillman, Brian (AGRE)" <Brian.Tillman@smiths-aerospace.com> wrote in message news:<11721EF39C7D7F47A55447158274CAF790055A@cossmgmbx01.email.corp.tld>...  > Nimish wrote:  > A > > Can any one suggest me why I am receiving the security update A > > files from microsoft & other maliscious myDoom infected mails * > > on my ID made on catholic.org which is> > > nimishdalal@catholic.org the one that I am using to log in9 > > google group. whereas I never receive any such myDoom @ > > infected mails on other email IDs like yahoo.com . . msn.com% > > . . mail.com . . & coolgoose.com.  > C > If the aforementioned email address is the one you use to post to H > comp.os.vms (Info-VAX), then that may be your answer.  Also, for wormsE > like MyDoom, someone else has to have your address in their address G > book.  If those other addresses you cited are not in anyone's address ? > book, you won't get those worms targeted for those addresses.  > -- > Brian Tillman          > Smiths Aerospace  > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS 1B3 > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991 @ > Brian.Tillman is the name, smiths-aerospace.com is the domain. >       < > I don't speak for Smiths, and Smiths doesn't speak for me. >  >  > , > ******************************************H > The information contained in, or attached to, this e-mail, may containE >  confidential information and is intended solely for the use of the H >  individual or entity to whom they are addressed and may be subject toI >  legal privilege.  If you have received this e-mail in error you should I >  notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail, delete the message from M >  your system and notify your system manager.  Please do not copy it for any G >  purpose, or disclose its contents to any other person.  The views or J >  opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and doH >  not necessarily represent those of the company.  The recipient shouldJ >  check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses.  TheB >  company accepts no liability for any damage caused, directly or6 >  indirectly, by any virus transmitted in this email., > ******************************************   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2004 21:08:10 -0800 / From: stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au (Stuart Norris) : Subject: Re: OpenGL Drawing, Motif on PseudoColor, ZLXp-E1< Message-ID: <51262235.0402062108.b301aee@posting.google.com>   Hi Andy,  B Thanks for the response. I see that you were the author of gl_ivp.  R I sort of understand what you mean.I tried it but I get errors about my color map.  < Do you have any motif / opengl / C-I example you can e-mail.   Thanks   Stuart   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2004 16:01:39 -0800 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)M Subject: Re: OpenVMS  vs unix security ... still waiting Andrew for response! = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0402061601.55a6cea8@posting.google.com>   m bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message news:<d7791aa1.0402061006.404a9786@posting.google.com>... E > Yes, but first redesign and rewrite your unix to cleanly catagorize  > and separateH > Kernel Mode from Supervisor Mode and from User Mode. Three modes are a	 > minimum  [...]   / So Bob, how long are you going to keep this up?4   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 21:59:36 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>rM Subject: Re: OpenVMS  vs unix security ... still waiting Andrew for response!hF Message-ID: <c7UUb.8841$vD8.2602@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Bob,  F Write Andrew yourself off-line   Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com  J I'm sure you can figure out how to parse his correct e-mail address out of this.h  E Seeing as you seem to have a lot of time on your hands, why don't youNG frequent a Sun forum and expound upon VMS to the great unwashed huddledaA masses there. Think of it as doing HP's VMS advertising for them.i         Bob Ceculski wrote:cE > Yes, but first redesign and rewrite your unix to cleanly catagorizey > and separateH > Kernel Mode from Supervisor Mode and from User Mode. Three modes are a	 > minimumnF > for a correct ring protection system. The use of three or more rings > happens toE > be a fully patented methodology by OpenVMS Engineering. OpenVMS has  > four.mG > OpenVMS also has 40 groups of higher mode functionality classified aso > requiring  > special named privileges.  >  > And, then... >e8 >  - allow access to higher mode services only through a > DESCRIPTOR-basedF >    calling standard which rules out "by design" the primary cause of
 > securityG >    holes - buffer-overflows. The secure Calling Standard is a centralt > design >    theme in OpenVMS. >eH >  - rewrite and install your TCP/IP stack so that it doesn't live in orD >    directly access kernel mode services except through the calling > standard.:B >    If the previous condition was met, your tcp/ip stack probablyF >    won't work in Supervisor mode or User Mode without these changes.D >    This is the reason why most security holes for which OpenVMS isC >    affected does not in fact lead to a security vulnerability. InAH >    this sense I agree with Andrew. Security vulnerability listings are; >    innaccurate for OpenVMS. Because they do not correctlyt > differentiate'G >    whether only a user-mode process can be affected or a higher mode, F >    and whether a higher privilege can be attained. A correct listing@ >    must rate the severity of the security hole. In OpenVMS the
 > severityG >    is usually lower (or meaningless) in comparison to other operatinge
 >    systems.o >hH >  - design privilege assignments to be attached to a mode. If a programE >    installed in a higher mode breaks out to a user-mode prompt. AlltE >    privileges assigned during the program run must be automatically  > lost.-E >    This prevents program privilege tailgating. OpenVMS Hackers (yes  > they@ >    do exist, an admirably persistent if unsuccessful lot) have
 > recently; >    discovered this functionality in OpenVMS, inwhich they  > intentionallynH >    installed an application with privileges and with a buffer overflow	 > leadingeG >    to a DCL prompt. Their experiment failed. This OpenVMS "knockdown"gC >    functionality can also be extended to disable the privilege ofsA >    receiving a DCL Prompt when breaking out of a program or DCL  > procedure,G >    just by assigning the CAPTIVE and RESTRICT flags to user accounts.a >oB >  - design your Unix to provide only strictly separated (and from
 > overflowA >    controlled) user and system stacks to prevent stack crashingW	 > leadingl( >    to access to higher mode functions. >eH >  - lets also not forget a redesign of the internal logon  mechanism to >    be carried out by one >-B > These are only a few of the unique, patented design decisions in	 > OpenVMSmD > resulting in a world-beating matrix of Functionality, Reliability,F > Availability, Security, Stability, and Scalability(RT, APMP, SMP andH > Cluster). It's an OS that was "Designed" first by 4 competing teams of
 > experts,G > and then the best results of these competing design teams merged into1 > anA > final design team. They knew of the older Unix, MVS and Multicso > designs, andE > naturally they innovated and improved on them for the Enterprise OS, > problem space. >hB > When you are done making these elementary design changes to UnixC > (many of which were intentionally excluded or ignored by the Unixp > designers G > in 1969 - Multics already had early forms many of them) you will find C > most of the commercial products on the Unix Market will no longer 
 > functionH > correctly on your New-Unix, and will also require a redesign, and then > a rewrite. >0A > But at least you will finally have an OS and TCP/IP stack whichjB > "begins" to technically compare with OpenVMS within the frame of > security.aH > And you'll have a product which pays royalties to OpenVMS Engineering. >tH > Each OS has it's strengths and weaknesses in design and implementationG > which will have a different evaluation depending on the problem spacecA > it will be applied to, and depending on the design goals of then > designers.@ > For the general Enterprise OS problem space, I believe OpenVMS
 > Engineerings= > has most consistently made the best decisions in design ands
 > implementedpA > them with an admirably consistent high quality and methodology.u >rF > OpenVMS enthusiasts can righteously bemoan that the Computer ScienceC > Profession (Informatics) have failed to recognize and teach theirA
 > studentsD > the sophisticated mechanisms and high principals found in OpenVMS,F > preferring instead to favoritize the minimalistic asthetics of Unix,G > or the marketing level sophistication in OS selection. This is a realm@ > loss for enterpise efficiency (money), mission-critical system > stabilityoG > (lives), and the computer science profession (maturity as a science).@B > A more balanced and impartial framework of scientific thought is	 > needed.sH > Computer Science needs some independence from commercial and marketing@ > interests to even discover the value of many existing designs, > technologiesF > and ideas. The last major papers over OS design were written over 101 > years ago, but their work is far from complete.  > B > Critics of OpenVMS should first study and compare it's internalsF > (Professional OS comparisons and choices should not be reduced to anB > application layer beauty contest) with an open mind concering OS@ > design paradigms, system operations principals and reliability > methodologies.C > After recovering from the shock, they will likely no longer be ast > critical.u >mG > Excuse me. I just noticed I didn't finish writing the last condition.i > It should read...A >rH >  - lets also not forget a redesign of the internal logon  mechanism toH >    be carried out by one program/process first created at user request > andd? >    has complete responsibility for the entire login sequence.  >tB > By the way, that was not by any means a complete list of OpenVMS. > design advantages.  It was only a beginning. >wG > Excuse me one last time, I have checked my sources and find I need totF > change one sentence of my earlier Email. The sentence should read... >.> >    It's an OS that was "Designed" by experts first producing? >    four design iterations, and then the best results of thesei@ >    designs were carried over into a  final design by "The Blue >    Ribbon Committee".f > E > I had thought to have read that the original 4 designs were by fourrB > competing teams, but I can no longer find a source for this. TheG > essential message remains unchanged. OpenVMS was carefully "Designed"V* > by experienced operating system experts. >hG > I'm not interested in changing history for any purpose. I do stand bya5 > my other statements and opinions made in the email.  >r >r	 > Cheers!i >  > Keith Cayemberg + > IBM Business Services - Hannover, Germanyn >e > Semi-Nonstandard Disclaimer:5 > Any non-official claims concerning my semi-official0, > opinions are hereby officially disclaimed." > i.e. I said it, not my employer.2 > (and no I didn't steal this one from Yogi Berra) >u@ > I welcome rebuttal, however a lack of response on my part only? > indicates a lack discretionary time to indulge in discussionsk) > peripheral to my employment activities.-   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2004 13:14:48 -0600y+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)m" Subject: Re: Rumours of (CPU) Wars3 Message-ID: <LHXrhaPbnU6Z@eisner.encompasserve.org>o   In article <bvvr7r$5ac$3@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote: >>  J >> We're sorry, but we are unable to process your request to configure theR >> identified product. The link to the product you selected is temporarily broken.O >> This product should be accessible shortly. If time is of the essence, we askc; >> that you call us at and talk to a sales representative. i >> oQ >> Please use your browser's "back" button to return to the previous page and, if ( >> appropriate, make another selection.  >>   >> t > < > Just do the config Rob and stop BSing, including support a= > PowerEdge 6550 with 4 x 2.8 GHz CPU's and 8 GB of RAM costss	 > $30120.t >   % 	Sure it does.  For that industry :^)e   			Rob   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2004 15:45:18 -0600y+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Shannon on Itaniumu3 Message-ID: <BMzqjOw+VIyF@eisner.encompasserve.org>>   	Stir the pot?  Probably.w  ; 	But it does apply to VMS as VMS's platform futures revolver 	around Itanium.  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14016i    O That means, he says, that the adoption of Opterons wouldn't represent any crackeN in the HP-Intel Itanium coalition. Some Usenet pundits, he says say this couldN be reprise of the decline and fall of Alpha architectures, and HP will scuttle its Itanium project.  O That, he adds, is codswallop, because HP is showing no sign that it will changeoN its 64-bit enterprise strategy. That would be a serious business blunder, with; six generations of new or enhanced Itanics in the pipeline.w   ---   ? 	Angle here of course is 6 Itaniums under development.  That is A 	a large commitment no matter how you splice it  (yes, there werep: 	Alpha projects underway - but nothing of that magnitude).   				Rob.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:22:21 +0100e From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: Shannon on Itaniumt2 Message-ID: <c014tq$ver$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Rob Young wrote: > 	Stir the pot?  Probably.t > = > 	But it does apply to VMS as VMS's platform futures revolve! > 	around Itanium. > + > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14016d >  > Q > That means, he says, that the adoption of Opterons wouldn't represent any cracknP > in the HP-Intel Itanium coalition. Some Usenet pundits, he says say this couldP > be reprise of the decline and fall of Alpha architectures, and HP will scuttle > its Itanium project. > Q > That, he adds, is codswallop, because HP is showing no sign that it will change0P > its 64-bit enterprise strategy. That would be a serious business blunder, with= > six generations of new or enhanced Itanics in the pipeline.f >  > ---. > A > 	Angle here of course is 6 Itaniums under development.  That isiC > 	a large commitment no matter how you splice it  (yes, there wereu< > 	Alpha projects underway - but nothing of that magnitude). > 	 > 				Robn > O Rubish. I saw roadmaps up till EV12. Starting from EV6, that is 6 generations, y: not counting sub versions (EV68 / EV69 , EV7 / EV79 etc.).  P Furthermore the good Terry doesn't mention Intels adoption of the AMD 64bit x86 O architecture. Many people always regarded AMD cpu's as a cheap replacement for .O    the real high quality Intel cpu's. Now however the mighty Intel will follow  Q AMD's architecture, and what that will do to the Itanium is anybody's guess. But  J even the most faithfull Itanium preacher will have to admit that this new / situation is hardly favourable for the Itanium.r   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:49:00 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>r Subject: RE: Shannon on Itaniumc9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIKEJHCMAA.tom@kednos.com>a  F Perhaps VMS engineering has the perspicacity to secretly be working on a port to the AMD chip:-)i     -----Original Message-----'   From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl] )   Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 2:22 PM    To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como!   Subject: Re: Shannon on Itaniumn       Rob Young wrote:   > 	Stir the pot?  Probably.-   >-?   > 	But it does apply to VMS as VMS's platform futures revolvei   > 	around Itanium.   >i-   > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14016s   >    > ?   > That means, he says, that the adoption of Opterons wouldn'te   represent any cracklC   > in the HP-Intel Itanium coalition. Some Usenet pundits, he sayse   say this couldB   > be reprise of the decline and fall of Alpha architectures, and   HP will scuttlev   > its Itanium project.   >4?   > That, he adds, is codswallop, because HP is showing no signr   that it will changeh;   > its 64-bit enterprise strategy. That would be a seriousn   business blunder, with?   > six generations of new or enhanced Itanics in the pipeline.    >s   > ---l   > C   > 	Angle here of course is 6 Itaniums under development.  That isSE   > 	a large commitment no matter how you splice it  (yes, there were >   > 	Alpha projects underway - but nothing of that magnitude).   >i   > 				Rob    >mC   Rubish. I saw roadmaps up till EV12. Starting from EV6, that is 6t   generations,<   not counting sub versions (EV68 / EV69 , EV7 / EV79 etc.).  C   Furthermore the good Terry doesn't mention Intels adoption of the    AMD 64bit x86h@   architecture. Many people always regarded AMD cpu's as a cheap   replacement forn>      the real high quality Intel cpu's. Now however the mighty   Intel will followe=   AMD's architecture, and what that will do to the Itanium iso   anybody's guess. ButK   even the most faithfull Itanium preacher will have to admit that this new01   situation is hardly favourable for the Itanium.<     ---l(   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B   Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004   ---r& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 21:17:21 GMTd& From: Don Sykes <paladin@mydomain.com>) Subject: SMTP Not Rejecting Unknown Users-> Message-ID: <BvTUb.22146$wz6.14203@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>   Folks,A Remember this discussion (actually several threads) a while back?PC Well I got the following the other day which looks like a solution:l  R > My Name is Karol Zielonko. I work in the TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS engineering2 > group at HP. SMTP is one of my responsibilities. > Q > Last year one of you posted a complaint about the TCP/IP Services SMTP receiver-J > not checking the deliverability of a recipient in the RCPT TO command inJ > comp.os.vms. I append the text to this message to refresh your memories. > M > I'm not sure which one of you was the original poster but I've enhanced thea5 > receiver to do just that. So now if you get mail tot >  >  RCPT TO:<jones@yourhost.com>  > P > and jones isn't a valid user (and isn't forwarded off your system and isn't an, > SMTP mailing list name and...) you'll get: > 9 >  550 <<jones@yourhost.com>> ... Addressee undeliverableh > N > The check was non-trivial. It's not just a valid username we're looking for. > R > Anyway. Just letting you know. The change will be part of ECO 1 for V5.4 and SSB: > for 5.5. And no I don't know when ECO 1 will be out. ;^) > P > BTW. By default, for 5.4 the new feature will not be turned on. You'll need toO > turn it on with a switch. This because technically this change is risky and Ik( > didn't want to break current behavior. >  > Karol ZielonkoR > ********************************************************************************   -- u   Have VMS, Will Travele Wire Paladin, San Francisco    (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 02:22:25 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>) Subject: Re: VMS ODS-5 and Macintosh OS Xn4 Message-ID: <40243dc9$0$28757$626a14ce@news.free.fr>  P I solved that kind of proble ages ago. I always log into the VMS box first when 5 I need VMS syntax, and in the Mac box when etc etc...r   D.  2 BTW, my favourite FTP client on Windaube is WSFTP.   Elliott Roper wrote:  C > In article <4022cc7b$0$281$636a15ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandis > <no@spam.com> wrote: >  > # >>Did u try the X version of Fetch?. >>http://fetchsoftworks.com/ >> > 9 > Thanks Didier. I knew there were some Macheads on here.aC > Yes, of course. OS X Fetch happens to be my favourite ftp client.7I > Long ago Jim Matthews said he was going to add VMS syntax but so far heb2 > has not done so. It is stuck at 4.0.3 for years. > C > What is happening is that a file called "Sample Picture.jpg" whene7 > dragged to ODS-5 appears after refreshing the list ase6 > "Sample^_Picture.jpg;1" (sans quotes in both cases.) > F > On attempting to drag it back toward the Mac, it alerts with "ServerH > response: Failed to open XXX$DKA200:[BACKUP.MAC]Sample^^_Picture.jpg;1 > for input. file not found" > F > Pressing the Get... button in Fetch and typing Sample Picture.jpg inI > the text bar works fine, as does the Mac's unixy ftp command line thinge2 > as long as I put the file name in double quotes. > - > I was hoping for one that worked perfectly.o >  >  >>D. >> >> >>Elliott Roper wrote: >> >>F >>>Can anybody recommend a pointy-clicky ftp client for Mac that deals( >>>elegantly with ODS-5 /style=extended? >>>oF >>>(Fetch and Transmit's drag and drop both overdo the ^_ quoting whenI >>>files walk from VMS to Mac. They make it into ^^_ and VMS declares thek >>>file is not there.) >>>aJ >>>It would also be pleasant if it dealt with version numbers and reported >>>the file size., >>>eG >>>It is no big deal, since I can operate with the command line ftp OK.:I >>>e.g if ODS-5 says Doofus^_Picture.jpg then get "Doofus Picture.jpg" is0 >>>fine. >>>r >  >    -- n2 VAXUS - Your new helpful friend in the DEC Family!2 EHQ: 19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France/       Phone: +336 7983 6418 Fax: +335 6154 1928)$                 http://www.vaxus.org   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2004 18:52:09 -08004# From: brian@brassvalley.com (Brian)  Subject: VMS Systems Disposal = Message-ID: <2d2fb529.0402061852.3b08d1ce@posting.google.com>g  > Did you know that if your company does the following with yourF computer equipment that you may be risking having penalties applied toC your company by Federal, State, and Local regulations, compromising E your company's data security, incurring legal and insurance expenses,eA damage to your corporate reputation, and being fined by the EPA??s   Do you utilize:/  * COMPUTER DONATIONS? YOU ARE STILL LIABLE! 8 COMPUTER LIQUIDATION/LIQUIDATORS? YOU ARE STILL LIABLE! * COMPUTER RECYCLING? YOU ARE STILL LIABLE! 4 DISPOSITION VIA DUMPSTER? YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW!   F With all these scenarios, the EPA may still define your company as theD "Generator of Waste" and would pursue your company in the event thatA one of your Monitors or the like was found in a landfill. Even if.? ownership was transferred to a recycler, reseller or non-profit F organization- you are still liable. Remember it isn't what you do withF old computers that matters in these situations, it is where it ends up- in 4 years from the people that have it then.0    = Most companies are not aware of how exposed they are with thesD traditional methods of removing surplus computer equipment. However,C as companies increasingly strive to be environmentally responsible,rB and are also increasingly risk averse, they are beginning to learnC that the old ways of disposing of surplus computer equipment are no ? longer adequate to address the potential risk of being named in ? pollution lawsuit or an event involving Data Security, Software  Licensing or Legal Action.  F Most COMPUTER RECYCLING/COMPUTER DISPOSAL companies take care of assetF tracking and disposition / COMPUTER DISPOSAL, but NO ONE ELSE builds a@ legal firewall between you and potential litigation with variousE entities including the EPA. If you use COMPUTER DONATIONS or COMPUTERtE LIQUIDATION / LIQUIDATORS and the individuals that get your computers B dump the used materials inappropriately, the e-waste can be traced  back to the original owner: YOU!     For more information visit - uK http://www.brassvalley.com/htm/COMPUTER_RECYCLING%20COMPUTER%20DISPOSAL.htm8   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 20:37:32 GMTa% From: Roger Ivie <rivie@ridgenet.net> % Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? 3 Message-ID: <slrnc27uob.o62.rivie@Stench.no.domain>I  F In article <K2QmkMXdXCfS@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Bob Koehler wrote:I >    A the same time DEC thought DEC was a computer manufacturer, writing,H >    software so they could make and sell hardware.  They didn't realizeE >    that there was better hardware than VAXen, but people who boughttG >    VAXen really wanted VMS.  They'd have bought VMS on PDP-10 if theyaH >    could get it.  They'd have bought it on SEL 32 if they could get it6 >    (our cheap 32/55 ran circles aronud our 11/780).   G Interesting that you should mention the SEL 32. I'm aware of some folksAE who did program development on a VAX for an application that actuallyi@ ran on the SEL 32. They developed on the VAX because it was more7 user-friendly and ran on the SEL because it was faster.A   FWIW.E -- W
 Roger Ivie rivie@ridgenet.net- (Rated a 10 on the Fox Scale of Forth-Hatred)S   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:18:01 -0500+ From: "Martin O'Connor" <moconnor@dvfs.com> % Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?o: Message-ID: <c010a8$11krpb$1@ID-118202.news.uni-berlin.de>  ` "Roger Ivie" <rivie@ridgenet.net> wrote in message news:slrnc27uob.o62.rivie@Stench.no.domain...H : In article <K2QmkMXdXCfS@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Bob Koehler wrote: :iI : Interesting that you should mention the SEL 32. I'm aware of some folkssG : who did program development on a VAX for an application that actuallyEB : ran on the SEL 32. They developed on the VAX because it was more9 : user-friendly and ran on the SEL because it was faster.o :Jb Back in 1979 we were developing systems on the SEL 32. When we got the VAX 11/780 on April 1, 1980b we used it for source and documentation libraries and for editing code. We wrote pre-processors tod try to test SEL Fortran code on the VAX but the architectures were too different (big/little endian,^ signed bytes, floating point format,...) to do any more than just simple tests, but it was func trying.  Each day when I came back from the test floor I would submit a job that would read my tapewd and then ran differences to document what I had changed that day. In the process I fell in love with= the VAX and have been using VMS as my main system ever since.y   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 18:49:51 GMTd& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?p3 Message-ID: <jlRUb.13943$7Q7.1416@news.cpqcorp.net>q   Tom Linden wrote:mB    Bob (Multician from CSC & NWGS - see http://www.multicians.org) > 6 > You don't see well documented code like this anymore) > http://www.multicians.org/calendar.html  >   E You mean like the routines 'previous_month' and 'follow_month' which PG have almost no comments and cryptic variable names that I can't decode?L  - Or the dreaded 'calculate_easter' routine....)  I I routinely (pardon the pun) write BLISS code that is as well docemented l   or better than this.     -- t John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader_ Hewlett-Packard Company_   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2004 14:06:09 -0600o; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) % Subject: RE: Why was VAX abandonned ? 3 Message-ID: <KcyBJWKV2f6a@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  _ In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIAEIKCMAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:uD > I still maintain that if you can make a Pentium spin at 4 GHz thenD > you could do at least the same for VAX (which unlike Pentium has aG > symmetric, orthogonal instruction set)  To match the performance withAD > an Alpha you would probably need a clock of 8GHz or more.  I think > this horse must now be dead.  F    I'm a real fan of the VAX architecture but there's no definition of=    orthogonal I could possibly fit it's instruction set into.-   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2004 16:09:43 -0800 7 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)h% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?c= Message-ID: <8a646952.0402061609.75344f0a@posting.google.com>e  k "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<CsGdnUs6eNtxD77dRVn-uw@comcast.com>... J > I did say "using today's technology".   If you built a VAX today, using I > the very latest fabrication technology and any design improvements you  H > like (must still conform to the VAX Archicture standard), I think the / > very best Alphas would blow the doors off it.h > G > Also note that "integer performanace" is not quite the same thing as ,D > performance.  Any real application uses far more than the integer  > instructions.o > M > Was the site with the large ACMS-Rdb application McGraw-Hill by any chance?       Nope!   Regards, Daryl Jonest   >  > Daryl Jones wrote: >  > >Dear Richard B. Gilbert:s > >lE > >In 1999, I experience at a client site the moving a large ACMS-RdbhE > >application from a max out VAX 78xx system to a Alpha 8400 where ItF > >only saw saw drop of cpu utilization go from 100% to 66%. I thoughtD > >this was strange since the Interger test comparison was 1800 to 1H > >faster for the Alpha. Therefore, I find your statement that the AlphaB > >blows off the doors of the VAX processor not true at that time. > >n > >Regards,0 > >Daryl Jones e > >(o > >"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<svidnWLeioqV773dRVn-ug@comcast.com>....d > >    > > G > >>Well, it was many years ago, but I seem to recall that "faster and eI > >>cheaper" competing systems were selling like hotcakes and VAXen were  K > >>not.  No matter how great the O/S was, the hardware was overpriced and V > >>underpowered!i > >>G > >>There may have been technical considerations as well but there was aM > >>definitely a financial reason; they needed faster hardware to run VMS on eK > >>in order to sell VMS and the VAX architecture simply could not do it.   M > >>Even using today's technology, the best Alpha chips would blow the doors s. > >>off the best VAX chips that could be made.M > >>I has been three or four years since I last booted a VAX;  I still own a aL > >>VAXstation 4000/VLC and a MicroVAX 3100 but I may never boot either one 	 > >>againA > >> > >>JF Mezei wrote:o > >> > >>     > >>J > >>>>>I personally think a 64-bit extended VAX architecture incorporating9 > >>>>>current processor technologies would be dreamy :-)i > >>>>>      > >>>>>u > >>>>>          S > >>>>>eQ > >>>At the time the decision was made to ditch VAX and develop Alpha, were thereyS > >>>compelling technical reasons to do so, or was there a strong marketing urge toe, > >>>adopt the then buzzword-du-jour: RISC ? > >>> S > >>>The one argument I had heard was the need to have fixed length instruction set S > >>>in order to make pipelining etc work better. Does the 8086 have a fixed lengthu > >>>instruction set ? > >>>AS > >>>When one looks at what Intel was able to do with the 8086, it makes one wonderr/ > >>>if the same could have been done with VAX.O > >>>h* > >>>What was the fastest VAX chip made ?  > >>>f > >>>gR > >>>Also, if, for my birthday, Sue were to give me the rights and all designs forN > >>>VAX architecture, could I go to TI, IBM or Intel and ask them to FAB me a" > >>>couple thousands VAX chips ?  > >>>hO > >>>If, during the last fab, they clocked the VAX at say 200mhz,  if I were torL > >>>provide the same designs today, but have it fabbed using the latest andR > >>>greatest process, could the mhz be cranked up significantly because the chip,I > >>>albeit the same phsyical size as before, would be manufacturerd withs1 > >>>significantly better precision than before ?t > >>>  > >>>k > >>>      e > >>>h > >>-- > >>     > >> >  > --   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2004 16:45:16 -0800t7 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)s% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?i= Message-ID: <8a646952.0402061645.5b75dc91@posting.google.com>a  p Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<4023B236.77CBDFB4@eps.zko.dec.com>... > Daryl Jones wrote: > F > > In 1999, I experience at a client site the moving a large ACMS-RdbF > > application from a max out VAX 78xx system to a Alpha 8400 where IG > > only saw saw drop of cpu utilization go from 100% to 66%. I thought E > > this was strange since the Interger test comparison was 1800 to 1 I > > faster for the Alpha. Therefore, I find your statement that the Alpha C > > blows off the doors of the VAX processor not true at that time.  > e > That's a cute story, but from a technology perspective it means nothing without further background.  > M > Notably, that 100% really may have been 1000% had the resources been there.mK > How much time did the same unit of work take on the Vax versus the Alpha?o  E     You might be correct here. That would mean the response time were C horrible, which was not what I heard at the time. I believe the VAX  was a 7860 with 2 Giga bytes.    > V > Furthermore, the 7800 and 8400 had largely the same(similar)  backplane / memory no?E > So if the VAX managed to come close  to memory bandwith saturation,-k > and the alpha more so, then you'd see lost of CPU burned waiting for instructions and/or data to come in.   B      I don't believe there was a memory problems. The 7860 was the backend.  G > Remember, a cpu looks 100% busy while stalling for memory to come in!  > = > The may well explain the integer benchmar vs real-life gap.nH > That integer benchmark may have been running in the (small) cpu cache!  F      Some where in these discussions (up and down) someone had mentionC how the interger and other tests speed blows the socks off the VAX,*A which it does however, it doesn't really relate to the real worldc loads.   > ; > What was the CPU speed on that 8400 anyway? 275? 350? :-(e  D       I believe the speed was 500 with 6 Gigabytes and 4 processors.C No page file was used and everything in main memory. I believe theyiA were going for another Alpha box for more power after one year. Ie heard it was a Wildfire box.   > \ > More importantly... those first Alpha's were not designed to tremendously overpower VAXen.b > The main reason to their creation is that Digital saw the end of a technology curve in sight and] > the Alpha was created to get onto a new curve, much like the Itanium story a decade  later..f > (hmm, you'd think they'd learn.. pdp - vax - alpha - ipf ... all doomed before their time? :-(..   ) > I > I'd like to think Alpha deliverd on that promiss: ES45 Ev69 1250 Mhz...bU > But then then end of its line came in sight, not technologically, but economically. ^ > So here we are coming to a grinding hold with Marvel / Ev7 @ 1.15 and a little more to come. > Ouch.r > 	 > Cheers,j > Hein.OV > [btw... I have not followed this discussion much, sorry if I duplicate prior inputs]  > I managed a ES40 (crossbar) with 4 processors. I loved it. TheB processing I was doing there was great. I believe I was processingF somewhere in the 4 million records per hour. The only downtime was due# to the microcode not being kept up.e  : I have tried to fill the blanks for you. sorry about that.   Good to hear from you!   Regards, Daryl Jones0   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:39:40 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> % Subject: RE: Why was VAX abandonned ?a9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIEEJHCMAA.tom@kednos.com>)     -----Original Message-----D   From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org]*   Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 12:06 PM   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComM'   Subject: RE: Why was VAX abandonned ?d    @   In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIAEIKCMAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom"   Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:F   > I still maintain that if you can make a Pentium spin at 4 GHz thenF   > you could do at least the same for VAX (which unlike Pentium has aI   > symmetric, orthogonal instruction set)  To match the performance with.F   > an Alpha you would probably need a clock of 8GHz or more.  I think    > this horse must now be dead.  H      I'm a real fan of the VAX architecture but there's no definition of?      orthogonal I could possibly fit it's instruction set into.o  I Orthogonal is a term that has not been used for some time in reference toeG instructions sets, the meaning was that the components that make up thesL instruction were independent of one another.  The term probably derived fromC the analogy of these components to the basis set of a vector space.      ---r(   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B   Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004   ---g& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 18:40:21 GMTt) From: "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com>s' Subject: Re: [MOZILLA] What's current ?r2 Message-ID: <pcRUb.13942$u7.2328@news.cpqcorp.net>  C "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in messagei) news:newscache$ao6osh$uj$1@news.sil.at...u? > In article <TIidnb1d04wxHL7dRVn-jg@adelphia.com>, Colin Blakes <colin@theblakes.com> writes:r# > >Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:IG > >>But I'm just wondering where did I then download MOZILLA D1.5 from,w which isL > >>the version I have installed on my systems ? Can you help my rotten mind ;-)s > >>H > >That would have been from Mozilla web site. D1.5 was the 1.5 RC2 kit. > > I > >http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mozilla/releases/mozilla1.5rc2/l > >iJ > >Mozilla don't advertise beta versions once the final release is out, so# > >you can't drill down to find it.s >m" > Now you said it, I can remember.L > I wondered why this version came only from mozilla.org and not from hp.com too. >  > Thanks a lot Colin >f& > The rest of the question remain sad.  L The Mozilla 1.5 final kit is ready for posting on mozilla.org. We're working/ withthe mozilla folks to make that happen soon.n  E The plan from there is to port SWB 1.4 to Itanium and then move on tom Mozilla 1.6tK for Alpha/Itanium. The next release of SWB will probably be 1.6 (we'll skip  the 1.5u- baselevel since 1.6 is already out the door).r  
 Rick Barry OpenVMS System Software Group  Hewlett-Packard Companya
 Nashua, NH   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2004 14:35:32 -0800s& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)' Subject: Re: [MOZILLA] What's current ?l= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0402061435.70ad7d0d@posting.google.com>   c "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com> wrote in message news:<pcRUb.13942$u7.2328@news.cpqcorp.net>...e > N > The Mozilla 1.5 final kit is ready for posting on mozilla.org. We're working1 > withthe mozilla folks to make that happen soon.a > G > The plan from there is to port SWB 1.4 to Itanium and then move on too
 > Mozilla 1.6iM > for Alpha/Itanium. The next release of SWB will probably be 1.6 (we'll skipt	 > the 1.5o/ > baselevel since 1.6 is already out the door).e >  > Rick Barry > OpenVMS System Software Groupt > Hewlett-Packard Companyn > Nashua, NH  E Really looking forward to that.  V1.4 was not the happiest release tohF be stuck at.  Will V1.5 be available on the HP SWB page also?  Or will it be Mozilla only?F   Thanks!y   Rich Jordan    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:09:06 +0100l From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>' Subject: Re: [MOZILLA] What's current ?x2 Message-ID: <c0144u$psb$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Rick Barry wrote:dE > "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message + > news:newscache$ao6osh$uj$1@news.sil.at...n > ? >>In article <TIidnb1d04wxHL7dRVn-jg@adelphia.com>, Colin Blake  >  > <colin@theblakes.com> writes:e > # >>>Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:  >>>iG >>>>But I'm just wondering where did I then download MOZILLA D1.5 from,n > 
 > which is > L >>>>the version I have installed on my systems ? Can you help my rotten mind >  > ;-)e > H >>>That would have been from Mozilla web site. D1.5 was the 1.5 RC2 kit. >>>sI >>>http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mozilla/releases/mozilla1.5rc2/i >>> J >>>Mozilla don't advertise beta versions once the final release is out, so# >>>you can't drill down to find it.y >>" >>Now you said it, I can remember.L >>I wondered why this version came only from mozilla.org and not from hp.com >  > too. >  >>Thanks a lot Colin >>& >>The rest of the question remain sad. >  > N > The Mozilla 1.5 final kit is ready for posting on mozilla.org. We're working1 > withthe mozilla folks to make that happen soon.e > G > The plan from there is to port SWB 1.4 to Itanium and then move on to 
 > Mozilla 1.6eM > for Alpha/Itanium. The next release of SWB will probably be 1.6 (we'll skiph	 > the 1.5d/ > baselevel since 1.6 is already out the door).h >  > Rick Barry > OpenVMS System Software Groupi > Hewlett-Packard Companyd > Nashua, NH > M That is good news Rick, thanks very much. I hope some of the mail problems I u* have with 1.5 RC2 wil be resolved in 1.5 .   ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 01:08:28 +0000 (UTC)6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)' Subject: Re: [MOZILLA] What's current ?y0 Message-ID: <newscache$rgwosh$p42$1@news.sil.at>  S In article <c0144u$psb$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:f >Rick Barry wrote:O >> The Mozilla 1.5 final kit is ready for posting on mozilla.org. We're workingr2 >> withthe mozilla folks to make that happen soon. >> iT >> The plan from there is to port SWB 1.4 to Itanium and then move on to Mozilla 1.6V >> for Alpha/Itanium. The next release of SWB will probably be 1.6 (we'll skip the 1.50 >> baselevel since 1.6 is already out the door). >>  
 >> Rick BarryS  >> OpenVMS System Software Group >> Hewlett-Packard Company
 >> Nashua, NHu >> nN >That is good news Rick, thanks very much. I hope some of the mail problems I + >have with 1.5 RC2 wil be resolved in 1.5 .f  O I second this, though I don't have an ITANIC yet and waiting is just not funny.   M btw Mail problems reminds me, why I still use MOZILLA V1.3 on PC (the junkingo6 stopped working in V1.4). I should check V1.6 again...   -- n Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialiste E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.074 ************************