0 INFO-VAX	Sun, 08 Feb 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 77      Contents:0 Re: Canadian Troll infestation in rec.travel.airP Horwath URL UPDATE - was Re: I say we should give him what's owed.  -  was Re: V Re: new TCPIP patch for 5.3 F Re: OT: Another American arrested in Brazil after making obscene gestuF Re: OT: Another American arrested in Brazil after making obscene gestu Re: Shannon on Itanium Re: Why was VAX abandoned ?  Re: Why was VAX abandoned ?  Re: Why was VAX abandoned ?  Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? RE: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? RE: Why was VAX abandonned ? RE: Why was VAX abandonned ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 17:21:16 GMT " From: GreyCloud <mist@Cumulus.com>9 Subject: Re: Canadian Troll infestation in rec.travel.air 7 Message-ID: <geuVb.678$ss.22204@bcandid.telisphere.com>    Ian Phillips wrote:   ; >   Or perhaps poor USA so close to God's country - Canada!  >   & But it's so cold up there.  BRRRRR!!!!   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 17:41:16 GMT * From: chr1673 <chr1673@nospam.invalid.com>Y Subject: Horwath URL UPDATE - was Re: I say we should give him what's owed.  -  was Re: V . Message-ID: <0xuVb.437928$ts4.382937@pd7tw3no>  H What better way to get even with a child pornography distributor than toH use  his 1-year-old baby daughter for an identity theft project, or even7 making a "friendly" phone call to his home at 3:00 AM ?   H ************************************************************************H HORWATH TOOK OUR WEBSITE DOWN, HE DOESN'T WANT YOU TO SEE IT!!! DOWNLOADH Message-ID: <102cif7dfiur558@corp.supernews.com> TO SEE THE FULL SITE!!!H ************************************************************************  H Michael  Edwin Horwath, fired from Winternet for incompetence, presentlyH earns  a living  selling  access  to  a  server that distributes piratedH software, pirated  music, pirated videos and  child pornography. HorwathH resides  with  his  wife  Aileen Horwath (formerly known as Aileen KarenH Goodrich)  and  their  daughter, who  was born in 2002 and is also namedH Aileen,  at  1901 Sumter Avenue North, Minneapolis, Minnesota 55427. The= home phone number of this titillating trio is (763) 540-6815.   H ************************************************************************H HORWATH TOOK OUR WEBSITE DOWN, HE DOESN'T WANT YOU TO SEE IT!!! DOWNLOADH Message-ID: <102cif7dfiur558@corp.supernews.com> TO SEE THE FULL SITE!!!H ************************************************************************  H Horwath is presently doing business under the name "Redundant NetworkingH Corporation" at  15 South 5th Street, Suite 1150, Minneapolis, MinnesotaH 55402. Fortunately he's  only a child pornography distributor and not anH international  leader, so Horwath doesn't worry too much about receivingH letter  bombs even after the Pentagon, in junction with the FBI and CIA,3 increased the United States terrorist threat level.   H He's also employed as a tech for Vector Internet Services, Inc. ("VISI")H located at 12 South 6th Street, Suite 630, Minneapolis, Minnesota 55402, (612) 395-9000.   H ************************************************************************H HORWATH TOOK OUR WEBSITE DOWN, HE DOESN'T WANT YOU TO SEE IT!!! DOWNLOADH Message-ID: <102cif7dfiur558@corp.supernews.com> TO SEE THE FULL SITE!!!H ************************************************************************  = WILL BABY AILEEN HORWATH BE MOLESTED IN THE HOME? You decide!   H Show  your appreciation for  the child pornography distributors of todayB by letting Mike Horwath and Aileen Horwath know how much you care.  H A photo  of baby Aileen Horwath and her toe tag # 902-02-4328 appears atH the site, along with a map to Mike Horwath's house in case you're in the. area and plan on making an "unexpected" visit!  H ************************************************************************H HORWATH TOOK OUR WEBSITE DOWN, HE DOESN'T WANT YOU TO SEE IT!!! DOWNLOADH Message-ID: <102cif7dfiur558@corp.supernews.com> TO SEE THE FULL SITE!!!H ************************************************************************H ------------------------------------------------------------------------H "I walked into the office of Winternet about 12:45 PM. When I entered myH office, I was surprised  to find Kevin Mathison digging through my desk,H a definite break of any trust I had for him. I told him that I wanted toH meet  with Mr. Frankowski and him as soon as possible. Mr. Mathison, Mr.H Frankowski,  Jim  Nelson  (from  MinnNet) and  myself  went  down to theH conference  room  to talk. As soon as Kevin started talking, I decided IH needed  a  lawyer  present. I stated so and walked out of the room. As IH walked  back into the Winternet offices, Mr. Mathison tells me that I amH fired,  in  front  of  Chad  Trost  and  the  Winternet staff members. IH contested  his  firing  by explaining that no board meeting had occurredE and his statement back was that it did not matter, that I was fired."   H                                 -- drechsau@winternet.com (Mike Horwath)H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  H ************************************************************************H HORWATH TOOK OUR WEBSITE DOWN, HE DOESN'T WANT YOU TO SEE IT!!! DOWNLOADH Message-ID: <102cif7dfiur558@corp.supernews.com> TO SEE THE FULL SITE!!!H ************************************************************************ --  1 00ps8kH72q8AkU3z2I9ag7aW41c4PzG2g6K3vl19qE88s16fj    ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:26:02 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)$ Subject: Re: new TCPIP patch for 5.3$ Message-ID: <c052rq$up8$1@online.de>  A In article <GYiVb.14675$Rl4.11879@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "Shael ) Richmond" <ksrich@bellsouth.net> writes:    I > > Why is the new patch for TCPIP 5.3 in the VMS 7.3 area for VAX but in ( > > the layered-products area for ALPHA? > > F > > Has anyone installed this yet?  Any gotchas (the release notes are
 > > huge)? > I > I installed it Friday and SMTP has a problem.  It gets a ACCVIO and the G > queues never start.  I've opened a ticket but haven't heard anything.   $ Where do you get the ACCVIO exactly?  H I was also a bit puzzled by stopped queues.  I started them by hand and : they seem to work now.  What do you mean by "never start"?    Did you install on VAX or ALPHA?  E I installed it on two VAXes with 7.3 and all other patches applied.   G Haven't installed it on ALPHA yet; might do so tonight since I have to  ) reboot anyway if it doesn't look too bad.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2004 06:29:19 -0800 . From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)O Subject: Re: OT: Another American arrested in Brazil after making obscene gestu = Message-ID: <f30679fb.0402080629.18a6023d@posting.google.com>   l George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in message news:<37b2ac600cb5210e383fe4eb62616340@mixmaster.it>...1 > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) wrote:  > B > >What is happening with the americans ? I allways had admiration > >for the American minds...   > " > Oh look, it's a Brazilian Mezei! > J > Do you like to talk about little boy's erections, little girls' pussies,N > masturbation, circumcision, and measuring men's foreskins in the locker room > too???     No thanks !   H I would like to read news about OpenVMS but I feel I am losing breath !    Regards    FC   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 14:31:27 GMT  From: "None" <none@nospam.org>O Subject: Re: OT: Another American arrested in Brazil after making obscene gestu C Message-ID: <3LrVb.16101$F23.8482@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>   J Coke could have a good commercial out of this - I'd like to flip the world! the finger, in perfect har-mon-y!    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 17:24:11 GMT " From: GreyCloud <mist@Cumulus.com> Subject: Re: Shannon on Itanium 7 Message-ID: <%guVb.679$ss.22204@bcandid.telisphere.com>    David J. Dachtera wrote:   > Rob Young wrote: > " >>        Stir the pot?  Probably. >>D >>        But it does apply to VMS as VMS's platform futures revolve >>        around Itanium.  >>+ >>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14016  >>Q >>That means, he says, that the adoption of Opterons wouldn't represent any crack P >>in the HP-Intel Itanium coalition. Some Usenet pundits, he says say this couldP >>be reprise of the decline and fall of Alpha architectures, and HP will scuttle >>its Itanium project. >>Q >>That, he adds, is codswallop, because HP is showing no sign that it will change P >>its 64-bit enterprise strategy. That would be a serious business blunder, with= >>six generations of new or enhanced Itanics in the pipeline.  >> >>---  >>H >>        Angle here of course is 6 Itaniums under development.  That isJ >>        a large commitment no matter how you splice it  (yes, there wereC >>        Alpha projects underway - but nothing of that magnitude).  >  > G > No, nothing of that magnitude - just customers AROUND THE WORLD being E > told to "bet the business on Alpha" just days before The Alphacide.  >  > Nothing big... > J > Whooda Hell's you guys' propaganda minister, anyway? ...and how long did6 > he/she work for the KGB before coming to OpenVMS/hp? >   G LOL.  I was pondering these issues about the amd64 and the Itanium2 as  D well.  It appears that amd has built a cheaper and better mousetrap.   ------------------------------  5 Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 12:00 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) 9 From: duncan@macdonald.compulink.co.uk (Duncan Macdonald) $ Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandoned ?A Message-ID: <memo.20040208120012.3160A@macdonald.compulink.co.uk>   N It would be quite possible using current technology to produce a VAX CPU chip 4 that was far faster than any that was actually made.  N However at the time that the decision to move away from the VAX was made, the M technology available was far cruder. (Think 486 not Pentium 4). At that time  O there seemed to be no way to put a CISC to RISC converter and a fast RISC core  M and a large dose of cache onto a single silicon chip. (A P4 is effectively a  L RISC core and a RISC to CISC converter with a large cache). Leaving out the L converter (and making the compilers do the work) made it possible to make a  fast chip - the ALPHA.  N As the Alpha was a new design that was not tied to code compatibility with an L existing software base, additional speedups could be gained from techniques 3 such as lazy writes (undefined memory write order).   N Some years ago I looked after a Microvax 3100 model 98 and also an Alpha 3000 L model 300. The Microvax had one of the fastest VAX CPU chips ever made, the L Alpha had one of the slowest Alpha CPU chips ever sold. The Alpha ran rings ) around the VAX on any CPU based activity.   M My own personal opinion is that the decision to move from the VAX was a good  N one. (However the decision to go to the Alpha probably contributed greatly to P the decline of VMS by persuading Dave Cutler to go to Microsoft and get NT into  a workable product.)   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 12:39:00 GMT ' From: nospam <x@wedontwantyourspam.com> $ Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandoned ?5 Message-ID: <BC4C7909.1F2F8%x@wedontwantyourspam.com>   F in article memo.20040208120012.3160A@macdonald.compulink.co.uk, DuncanH Macdonald at duncan@macdonald.compulink.co.uk wrote on 08/02/2004 23:00:   > N > My own personal opinion is that the decision to move from the VAX was a goodO > one. (However the decision to go to the Alpha probably contributed greatly to L > the decline of VMS by persuading Dave Cutler to go to Microsoft and get NT > into   > a workable product.)L Unless my memory is again broken PRISM was Dave's baby and not getting PRISMF and VMS together ie the BS and delays in AXPs arrival eventuated in DCK moving to MS not the other way around;) If VMS had stayed VAX bound I doubt 1 this discussion would even be happening , hint ;)          Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 07:58:48 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>$ Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandoned ?) Message-ID: <40263256.4AD301E6@istop.com>    Duncan Macdonald wrote: M > RISC core and a RISC to CISC converter with a large cache). Leaving out the M > converter (and making the compilers do the work) made it possible to make a  > fast chip - the ALPHA.  M Yes, it is quite possible that Alpha was an architecture wich was less costly  to improve.   N However, had they stuck with VAX, they wouldn't have lost so many customers inF the transition from Vax to Alpha (Digital lost all messaging business,J remember it used to be world leader is messaging with a large portfolio ofM gateways to many disparate systems, all that went down the drain when Message   Router was not ported to Alpha).  N And you wouldn't have had customers "stuck" on vax because ISvs didn't port toG Alpha, and then abandonned VAX development because there weren't enough  customers left.   C One has to look at it from a business point of view as opposed to a  performance point of view.  K Consider also that DEC had to develop totally new compilers, and maintain 2 1 separate versions of VMS (no single source tree).   A What was missing from Alpha-VMS was an image activator that would 9 automatically invoke Vest when it encountered VAX images.   N Remember that at the time the decision was made to go to Alpha, the 8086 wouldI probably still have been at the 286 stage. Didn't the 386 arrive in early M 1990s ? And Windows was still not a credible application and most were either  on MS-DOS or MACs before 1990s.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 09:47:02 +0100 2 From: Wilm Boerhout <w.boerhoutOLD@PAINTplanet.nl>% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? * Message-ID: <c04t7n$f15$1@reader10.wxs.nl>  7 Don't know about the Alpha, but the VAX never sleeps...    glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:    E > Do VAX and Alpha have a way to stop the CPU, like the WAIT state on  > IBM S/360, S/370, etc.?  > 	 > -- glen  >    --  
 Wilm Boerhout    wilmOLD@PAINTboerhout.nl(    (remove OLD PAINT from reply address)   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 07:18:17 -0500 (EST)+ From: Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> % Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? H Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58-035.0402080716060.1009@unix44.andrew.cmu.edu>  M ever wonder what the EV in the names of the alpha implementations stands for? * (hint: it's not _really_ electro-vlassic).) As much as i like the vax (take a look at H www.vaxpower.org/~isildur/computers.html for a hint ), i have to say the alpha is a superior machine.   Isildur   E > I personally think a 64-bit extended VAX architecture incorporating 4 > current processor technologies would be dreamy :-)   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 07:28:18 -0500 (EST)+ From: Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> % Subject: RE: Why was VAX abandonned ? H Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58-035.0402080720030.1009@unix44.andrew.cmu.edu>  P if they would have poured all the money that went down the toilet on the vax9000K into pretty much anything else, dec would have been a couple billion ahead, H too. Alpha was a pretty smart decision- not that the transition to alphaM was handled in the best way possible- and th efact that the alpha du jour has L remained the fastest processor for almost the entirety of the past decade is? just one more hint that alpha was most certainly not a mistake. D Think of the massive pile of crocks and bogosities that intel has toJ go through to get even the performance they do get out of their latest x86F offerings.. without the production volumes of intel's market, a vax ofK that massive scale of bloat would have been prohibitively costly for dec or J a third party to manufacture. alpha is cleaner, easier to make faster (notJ just in terms of clocks, i mean in terms of real work done per unit time),N has an acceptably large address space (32 bits is _not_ acceptable, and hasn't, been for years), than vax was ever going to.M Also, keep in mind how much slower vax systems were than their contemporaries G by about 1990. even the mips decstations were several times faster than J any comparably priced or sized vax systems, not to mention sparcs, hp-pa'sK (once those came out), and rs6k's (or other mips boxen).. think of the last I vax implementations, nvax and nvax5, and compare them to the contemporary F alphas. especially useful id the nvax5 and 21064 comparison. Both diesH were done in the same process, had about the same number of gates (aboutO a million and a half), ran at the same clocks (100-200 mhz more or less, though H the nvax chips were usually run on the lower end of that range), and hadK roughly the same io wrapped around them. An alpha running at the same clock & got a lot more work done than the vax.   Isildur     % On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Tom Linden wrote:    >  >  >   -----Original Message-----3 >   From: John Brandon [mailto:brandon@dalsemi.com] . >   Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:43 AM >   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ) >   Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?  >  >  >   > What about VLM arrays? >   > > >   >   The capacity of a 32-bit architecture against a 64-bit >   >   architecture, is there= >   >   not a memory limitation associated with the bit size?  >   > H >   >   Would you be able to plug a VAX chip into the switch environment >   >   (mesh) that , >   >   the Alpha is now?  How about GALAXY? >   > 2 >   >   I believe David Froble hits it on the head >   > K >   > I don't think so.  You assume that the only thing you could do was to M >   > shrink the die.  Do you think the Pentium today uses the same design as I >   > the earlier X86's.  Pentium today is largely an x86 set instruction N >   > emulator on a core (used to be a modified 801 architecture,don't if that >   > is still the case) >   > = >   > Digital had been far better off and could possibly have  >   survived had they M >   > taken a similar approach.  Had they done so, I repeat, that there is no D >   > irrefutable reason why a VAX instruction set computer couldn't >   have run at L >   > the same speed as pentium other than lack of vision and will to do so. > A >   At what cost?  Was not Palmer the guy who said desktop PC are  >   nonsense?  More . >   to it than just the direction of the chip. > @ >   And how does that account for memory limitations of a 32-bit >   instruction set? > I > It could have been extended, as AMD and Intel have done (note that this 8 > was only recently done, alpha was premature at 64 bit) > A >   It is easy (and fun) to play the what-if game.  However there  >   were limitationsE >   to the VAX architecture.  At what expense and cost of performance  >   would it have D >   taken to get the VAX chip to a level of Pentium?  So what if you >   did?  ThenI >   what?  Would you have the same problems the chip has now?  Lackluster  >   performance? > I > Couldn't disagree more.  If you had poured all the money that went into J > alpha (fabs, hardware, porting, etc)  there would have been dollars leftI > over to buy beer for the loyal.  I don't see any limitations to the VAX F > architecture other than its development was arrested many years ago. > G > I do, however, agree with your comment,that use of the subjunctive is  > fruitless. >  >   J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  >   VMS Systems Administrator . >   firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com >  >   --- * >   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> >   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).D >   Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004 >  > --- ( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004 >  >    ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 07:54:18 -0500 (EST)+ From: Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> % Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? H Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58-035.0402080749270.1009@unix44.andrew.cmu.edu>  H a major difference is that the technology of a 15 year old car is almostH the same as the technology of a car of today (almost pointless insertionB of computer control into everything has not significantly affectedD performance _or_ efficiency, really)- that car is a piece of capitalN equipment that will be able to pay for itself over 15 or 20 years. a computer?0 even the fastest machine is obsolete in 5 years.G (i do like to joke, though, of mercedes diesels being the vax of cars.. I indestructible, superior engineering, a pleasure top operate, and tons of  steel in them) Isildur  lots of VAXen and an '82 240D       % On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, John Smith wrote: H > One only has to look at the average Mercedes Benz automobile....a hugeN > number of them are still on the road after 15 years (see mid-80's body styleM > E series), with the mechanical parts in good working order and many without N > rust. How many average North American automobiles are still running after 15 > years?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 06:37:57 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> % Subject: RE: Why was VAX abandonned ? 9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIEEKHCMAA.tom@kednos.com>      -----Original Message-----0   From: nospam [mailto:x@wedontwantyourspam.com],   Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 10:15 PM   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com '   Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?       I   in article c04jcg$8mo$1@pcls4.std.com, Brian Chase at bdc@world.std.com    wrote on 08/02/2004 17:01:   0   > In article <40208A9A.6090403@tsoft-inc.com>,.   > David Froble  <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:   >    >> Really oversimplified:    >>  =   >> Today's CPUs use various techniques to allow pipelining, =   They a number of examples of pipelining dating back to 1982     How about 1964 Seymour Cray.      --- (   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B   Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004    --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 06:47:08 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> % Subject: RE: Why was VAX abandonned ? 9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIOEKHCMAA.tom@kednos.com>      -----Original Message-----0   From: nospam [mailto:x@wedontwantyourspam.com]+   Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 8:46 PM    To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com '   Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?     H   When I started out with VAX orthogonal at least to me, was a referenceE   partly to the mnemonic names used ie MOV to which you add 1 char to =   reference the size ie B W L  Byte Word Long  or the ZBL ZWL B    Zero Byte to Long Zero Word to Long (compare that to Intel 8080
   or Motorola    68k mnemonics)L     But more importantly to the usage of addressing modes and operands. (itsL   been a while since I programmed in VAX) There are no restrictions or rulesL   that I can remember about what registers and address mode combination thatJ   you can use. When you look at a lot of other CPU's there heaps rules andF   restrictions. And these no divisions in the register set, any of the.   registers can be float, data,address, index.B       This all adds up to a brilliant machine to program but sucks
   big time to B   make it go faster. RISC was about reducing memory references and
   getting rid ?   of instructions like MOVTC, EDITPC, MOVC5 etc. So most people    perceive that @   RISC just means reduced number of instructions and complexity,   really that's K   what initial happened as a result of getting an instruction set processor E   that can load/exe consistent opcode streams with out lots of memory >   references (esp conditional ones) getting in the way of pipe   lining. Current C   RISC chips have quite complex instruction and a fare few of them.     There is K   now doubt that today we can make a faster VAX, but there is also no doubt J   that all things being equal we can make a faster non-VAX CPU. The memory@   foot print of a VAX kills it every time. An instruction with 5   operands like =   @(r1)[r11], @mydata(r2) etc, cant remember what the longest    instruction was A   it ends up over 30bytes from memory, you can see what this does 
   to the load @   and decode part of the CPU. And then the very lovely CALLG and   CALLS compare F   these too and alpha or even CISC chips 68k and PDP-11 using a return+   register instead of stack for fast calls.   J So what.  That instruction you cite, for example, emanated presumably fromI a compiler and to implement the same on RISC you would need to go through H a bunch of instructions.  The early Alpha chips took 17 ticks to computeL A= B + C;  because in their desire for simplicity the engineers didn't think  16bit arithmentic was important.  K The VAX architecure was designed for high level languages, the Alpha for C. L Note that the Power PC has only a one tick penalty for unaligned data accessE (which the Alpha engineers arrogantly refer to as misaligned access!)   >       The VAX is nice to programmers (but who uses macro these   days) but sucks K   in silicon. The VAX when alpha came along was just about at the limits of L   what they could do to make it faster and the company weak from competitionI   and the losses from VAX-9000. It was very much the right decision to go L   Alpha and get VMS there ASAP, they didn't dump VAX like PDP-10 or recentlyH   ALPHA it was a very soft landing by comparison. Unfortunately the good"   decisions stop soon after this;(    
       Mark ;)   B   in article 0C8fEECP8Gh4@eisner.encompasserve.org, Bob Koehler atD   koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org wrote on 08/02/2004 03:04:  J   > In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIEEJHCMAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden"   > <tom@kednos.com> writes:   >>A   >> Orthogonal is a term that has not been used for some time in    reference toL   >> instructions sets, the meaning was that the components that make up the;   >> instruction were independent of one another.  The term    probably derived from H   >> the analogy of these components to the basis set of a vector space.   > I   >  I don't see how one can consider TSTL to be independent of MOVL on a I   >  VAX since they both set the condition codes based on a 32 bit value.    > '   >  To me, that's just not orthogonal.    >        --- (   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B   Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004   --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.077 ************************