0 INFO-VAX	Tue, 10 Feb 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 81      Contents:: Re: APL (was Re: Floating point arithmetic support in DCL) Downtime by EUREX  DTSESSION annomalie 8 Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD Athlon8 Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD Athlon Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!  Re: new TCPIP patch for 5.3 P RE: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study	... again!	... D Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ...D Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ...D Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ...C Re: Oracle ships 10g database, cuts price  <-- Oracle RDB too ?????  Re: Other CVS on VMS problems  Re: Other CVS on VMS problems  Re: Other CVS on VMS problems C Re: SYS$STARTUP:MMOV$SHUTDOWN.COM -- Insufficiently discriminating? D TCPIP V5.4: DECnet/IP: remote nodes cannot translate address -> nameH Re: TCPIP V5.4: DECnet/IP: remote nodes cannot translate address -> nameH Re: TCPIP V5.4: DECnet/IP: remote nodes cannot translate address -> name Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?7 [Q]OpenVms 7.3  TCPIP 4.1 Eco 4 and hpjetdirect 170X...   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:53:42 -0500 + From: "Martin O'Connor" <moconnor@dvfs.com> C Subject: Re: APL (was Re: Floating point arithmetic support in DCL) : Message-ID: <c0ar9g$14d1cp$1@ID-118202.news.uni-berlin.de>  [ "Roy Omond" <Roy@Omond.net> wrote in message news:c083u8$quc$1$830fa795@news.demon.co.uk...  : William Webb wrote:  : [...snip...] : @ : And as for the 5 lines APL to 500 lines of Cobol, you couldn't< : have been trying very hard.  More like 1.66 lines to 500 ! :  : Good ol' days, : d I still keep my APL/360 User's Manual (1968) and APL In Exposition (1972) manauals within arms reachd at my desk. In the early 1970's we had one terminal at Drexel University connected to the Universityb City Science Center. You had to check out the APL ball for the terminal. I had programed a game inc APL and still have the single line that evaluated the state of the game before making the computers U move. I always figured that the line represented well over 100 lines of fortran code.    Yes, the Gool ol' days,    Marty    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:34:11 +0100 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> Subject: Downtime by EUREX: Message-ID: <MCELKPMOKPMNDNKJNIONAEINCKAA.win@fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  N a few days ago EUREX was down for hours. It was in case of a software problem.O Does anybody know something about the OS? Was it an OpenVMS problem, or was the 9 problem, that EUREX did remove OpenVMS from the frontend?    Best regards Rudolf Wingert    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:41:25 +0100 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> Subject: DTSESSION annomalie: Message-ID: <MCELKPMOKPMNDNKJNIONIEINCKAA.win@fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  M a few day ago I did check all user disk and did see, that one was full. A few N minutes after a purge, the disk was full again. The SHOW SYSTEM command showedL me, that DTSESSION did have an unvieable count of I/O. Then I looked for theK open files and did see, that the open DTSESSION.LOG did have allocated over N 45Million blocks of diskspace. The inuse count was zero. Every time I did freeI some diskspace DTSESSION did catch it for this logfile. Does anybody know L something about this problem. We do have OpenVMS 7.3-1 with DECwindows Motif% 1.2-5 and a lot of patches installed.    Best regards Rudolf Wingert    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:05:08 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>A Subject: Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD Athlon 4 Message-ID: <4028d705$0$28127$636a15ce@news.free.fr>  M The Intel article, may be found here http://www.01net.com/article/231407.html P The main article on HP is not on line. They do that to push readers to actually  purchase the paper.    D.   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > Bonjour ! $ > It's not available online, is it ?: > I've searched the "http://www.01net.com/01informatique/"1 > site, but coulldo nly find the "L'ditorial"...  >  > Jan-Erik.  >  > Didier Morandi wrote:  > N >>There is a paper today in 01 Informatique Hebdo, Nr 1 in IT Press in France,4 >>focusing on the "secrets HP plans for the future". >>Q >>The paper sez that HP may cancel all developments on iA64 and go AMD/Athlon 64.  >> >>D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 00:48:44 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>A Subject: Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD Athlon ) Message-ID: <402870A2.87C4027D@istop.com>    Didier Morandi wrote: Q > The paper sez that HP may cancel all developments on iA64 and go AMD/Athlon 64.   L There is no question that HP will eventually abandon IA64. The HP apologistsJ say it won't happen for another 50 years. Realists say it will happen in a couple of years.  N For as much as I believe that HP will drop IA64 soon,  HP will be very carefulN not to give any hints that it is preparing an exit strategy with Intel. So anyJ article today that states that HP has already decided would be speculation4 (even if you agree with it, it remains speculation).  J IA64 isn't enough of a dud to be declared dead yet. But both  HP and IntelI know that the amounts of money required to keep IA64 from lagging too far = behind are not sustainable when you consider the low volumes.   M The only variable one can look for in the next year will be Windows on IA64.  G They could quietly forget about windows on IA64. That would prevent the M egg-on-face when microsoft announces it is pulling out of IA64 because of low N volumes (as it had with MIPS, PowerPC and Alpha). If HP/Intel decide to reallyN push Windows on IA64 big time, it indicates that their exit strategy from IA64$ will take a bit longer to implement.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2004 09:36:20 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) ( Subject: Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0402100936.2fe0884c@posting.google.com>   ~ "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message news:<4013F885.ACB248E9@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>...B > imagine my shock when I read that submissions for sessions close! > in six days (well, five today)!  ... = > I was up until midnight last night submitting ten sessions.    I'm glad you made the deadline.   D Folks interested in speaking at user-group conferences might want toF watch the Symposia_Public conference on DECUServe (aka Encompasserve).>  The Call for Participation for HP World was announced in that! notesfile way back on December 2.   D Telnet to encompasserve.org and log in under REGISTRATION for a free account.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:47:40 GMT . From: "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca>$ Subject: Re: new TCPIP patch for 5.3, Message-ID: <Mp4Wb.21064$Qa3.16705@edtnps89>  5 Had the same problem as well as yes I did log on too.   ! I was told it was a bind problem.   2 if you type tcpip show mx validdomain.com it works6 if you type tcpip show mx invaliddomain.com it crashes  K I ran into the problem first with SMTP as I have the accept invalid domains 4 to false which forces an MX lookup giving the errors  8 "Shael Richmond" <ksrich@bellsouth.net> wrote in message3 news:BsVVb.26634$8a5.8868@bignews1.bellsouth.net...  > , > "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply"! <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de> 1 > wrote in message news:c052rq$up8$1@online.de... E > > In article <GYiVb.14675$Rl4.11879@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "Shael , > > Richmond" <ksrich@bellsouth.net> writes: > > J > > > > Why is the new patch for TCPIP 5.3 in the VMS 7.3 area for VAX but in, > > > > the layered-products area for ALPHA? > > > > J > > > > Has anyone installed this yet?  Any gotchas (the release notes are > > > > huge)? > > > I > > > I installed it Friday and SMTP has a problem.  It gets a ACCVIO and  the K > > > queues never start.  I've opened a ticket but haven't heard anything.  > > ( > > Where do you get the ACCVIO exactly? > > K > > I was also a bit puzzled by stopped queues.  I started them by hand and > > > they seem to work now.  What do you mean by "never start"? > > $ > > Did you install on VAX or ALPHA? > > G > > I installed it on two VAXes with 7.3 and all other patches applied. J > > Haven't installed it on ALPHA yet; might do so tonight since I have to- > > reboot anyway if it doesn't look too bad.  > >  > ; > It's on an Alpha.  Talked to HP today.  Apparently it was J > identified at another site too.  I think it has something to do with the MXI > record.  They tried a couple of workarounds but to no avail.  It's been  > escalated to > engineering. >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:37:50 -0600 / From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> Y Subject: RE: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study	... again!	...  T Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC120D20FF@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  I Agreed..."independent study" does not mean that the idea and the cost for G the study actually came from the authors of the study.  If you read the  client testimonials found at: I http://www.techwise-research.com/testimonials/index.htm you will see that - their clients are all "xxxxx" manufacturer.      EdE **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**      > -----Original Message-----1 > From: nospam [mailto:x@wedontwantyourspam.com]  ) > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 7:19 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com < > Subject: Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster 2 > tco/virus study ... again! ... again! ... again! >  > > > in article d7791aa1.0402091622.1f69720c@posting.google.com, @ > Bob Ceculski at bob@instantwhip.com wrote on 10/02/2004 11:22: > ? > > the results are in ... and OpenVMS clusters trash slowaris  
 > and aix by  < > > huge margins ... tco is the best in all categories, and  > also OpenVMS  H > > has the least downtime, especially to viruses. It once again proves H > > Andrew wrong ... throw out cert since he says they aren't reliable, @ > > bring in an independent tco study and it proves that VMS is 
 > unhackable  G > > ... of course this study wasn't done by sun but by their customers  E > > responses, so it has to be wrong because what do they know ... :)  > >  > > = > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=04/02/09/4975302  > = > Except there is no comparison to Tru64, sounds more like a  ? > paid for ad than an independent study, only HP would exclude   > there own OS >    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2004 05:42:47 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)M Subject: Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0402100542.7843a945@posting.google.com>   _ Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote in message news:<00A2D2DD.6A7B181D.1@tachysoft.com>...  > > N > >in article d7791aa1.0402091622.1f69720c@posting.google.com, Bob Ceculski at1 > >bob@instantwhip.com wrote on 10/02/2004 11:22:  > > ? > >> the results are in ... and OpenVMS clusters trash slowaris C > >> and aix by huge margins ... tco is the best in all categories, D > >> and also OpenVMS has the least downtime, especially to viruses.B > >> It once again proves Andrew wrong ... throw out cert since heA > >> says they aren't reliable, bring in an independent tco study B > >> and it proves that VMS is unhackable ... of course this studyC > >> wasn't done by sun but by their customers responses, so it has 1 > >> to be wrong because what do they know ... :)  > >>   >  > Q > Can't you post this shit in a slowaris group instead of comp.os.vms?  If you're O > going to kick off yet another Andy-boy jabbering session, why not trash their  > newsgroup instead of ours?Q > =============================================================================== P > Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com= > http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    Q > ===============================================================================   = IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T READ IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! " IT PROMOTES THE MERITS OF VMS ... 9 OBVIOUSLY, YOU ARE A TROLL ... WHY AREN'T YOU OUT BASHING 2 KEN AND KEITH WHEN THEY PROMOTE IT???????????????? TROLL!!!!!!!!!!    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:45:27 -0500 * From: "rob kas" <rob@paychoice.com.noSPAM>M Subject: Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... 0 Message-ID: <102hrk4nb8momec@corp.supernews.com>  4                 Wow Bob's in a bad mood this morning     " < >> Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  >> wayne@tachysoft.com; >> http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html R >> =============================================================================== > ? > IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T READ IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! # > IT PROMOTES THE MERITS OF VMS ... ; > OBVIOUSLY, YOU ARE A TROLL ... WHY AREN'T YOU OUT BASHING 4 > KEN AND KEITH WHEN THEY PROMOTE IT???????????????? > TROLL!!!!!!!!!!    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:52:44 -0600 ( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>M Subject: Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... / Message-ID: <00A2D344.18141F72.5@tachysoft.com>    >>@ >> IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T READ IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!$ >> IT PROMOTES THE MERITS OF VMS ...    G I'm all for that.  It's the sneering at solaris that's the problem.  If M andy-boy was not infesting this newgroup, that would not be an issue.  But he N is, so slams at sun just cause another round of useless traffic where the same# bullshit is repeated over and over.     < >> OBVIOUSLY, YOU ARE A TROLL ... WHY AREN'T YOU OUT BASHING5 >> KEN AND KEITH WHEN THEY PROMOTE IT????????????????   K Because their posts are not specifically directed at andy-boy, deliberately ( intended to provoke a tiresome response.   >> TROLL!!!!!!!!!!   >   ' You're calling somebody *else* a troll? O =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O =============================================================================== B Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?", 	Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2004 07:58:31 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) L Subject: Re: Oracle ships 10g database, cuts price  <-- Oracle RDB too ?????3 Message-ID: <gQp7$pRipUWx@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <4023709B.8D047A83@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:  > 3 > And, besides, BLISS is freeware today, isn't it ?  >  > Jan-Erik.   H    On VAX and Alpha running VMS, yes.  On VMS I64 it's expected.  But on	    NT no.   6    Ah if I could only get a BLISS compiler for my Mac.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2004 07:51:49 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: Other CVS on VMS problems3 Message-ID: <eo07FZq3yy$+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <200402091100.52970.kpederson@ewu.edu>, Kaleb Pederson <kpederson@mail.ewu.edu> writes: > .. > K > I can type in SSH all by itself, without specifying the path and it gets  P > executed appropriately.  But, there is no symbol defined for it, some I'm not P > sure how it gets resolved under OpenVMS.  Under Linux I would just check PATH M > and see what's defined.  I checked logicals *PATH* but didn't see anything  0 > that looked like it included the SSH logicals.  F    IIRC you don't need to setup the executable for ssh in cvs_rsh, you=    need to setup the command.  On VMS these are not the same.   5    Most commands in VMS are defined in a table inside E    sys$library:dcltables.exe.  This implements a many to many mapping C    between commands and programs, and contains the data DCL uses to C    parse commands for the program.  Most of the interesting details F    are described in the utility reference manual (set command utility)=    and the utility routines reference manual (CLI$ routines).   E    The contents of such a command table can be examined with the free F    VERB utility.  However you can simply look at the multinet:user.cldG    file to see the definition of SSH that Multinet puts into the table.   H    Have you tried setting the DCL symbol cvs_rsh to ssh and removing theC    logical name?  (Check the C RTL docs, getenv() will look at both F    logical names and DCL symbols, but it looks at logical names first,B    so make sure you deassign it, or set it to the command (not the    program).   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2004 07:55:05 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: Other CVS on VMS problems3 Message-ID: <EX5$NSZfynJA@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <200402091138.13879.kpederson@ewu.edu>, Kaleb Pederson <kpederson@mail.ewu.edu> writes:: > On Monday 09 February 2004 11:16 am, Dan O'Reilly wrote:: >> The "SSH" command is defined as a command in DCLTABLES. > [snip] > L > How can I tell what commands are loaded into the DCLTABLES?  In searching O > through help, it looks like they get installed with the install command?  It  J > looks like the /privileged=[group,name] allows you to specify something " > equivalent to SUID/SGID in *nix?  E    See earlier post on how to dump DCLTABLES.  INSTALL is involved in E    setting up the current copy of DCLTABLES, but commands are entered 4    via the "set command" command.  I've never seen a@    /privileged=[group,name] qualifier on any command.  GenerallyH    commands the support the /privilege qualifier take a specific list ofE    privileges, most of which have nothing to do with the file system.   G    The equivalent to SUID/SGID in UNIX is done through a much different 6    technique, and rarely used in native VMS utilities.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:42:18 -0800 - From: Kaleb Pederson <kpederson@mail.ewu.edu> & Subject: Re: Other CVS on VMS problems2 Message-ID: <200402100842.19991.kpederson@ewu.edu>  M Bob, thanks for the info.  I'm new to OpenVMS as you may have noticed.  Back  K to the CVS/SSH question though, I did specify the SSH command, without the  I logical being set, when I did the following (included in my CVS last cvs   related e-mail):   $ deassign cvs_rsh! $! here I specify the executeable  $ cvs_rsh=="ssh_exe:ssh2.exe" ( $ cvs -d:ext:otherhost:/home/cvs co test> cvs [checkout aborted]: cannot exec: no such file or directoryK $! override the last symbol, now specify the command (that works by itself)  $ cvs_rsh=="ssh"( $ cvs -d:ext:otherhost:/home/cvs co test> cvs [checkout aborted]: cannot exec: no such file or directory  M I presumed, because of the above response, that I needed to have the logical  K defined.  Any ideas on why this doesn't work?  What makes our environments  I differ since we're running the same version of SSH?  I'm running version  M 1.9.27 of CVS, and what I presume is the most recent version of Multinet SSH.    --Kaleb   8 On Tuesday 10 February 2004 05:55 am, Bob Koehler wrote:D > In article <200402091138.13879.kpederson@ewu.edu>, Kaleb Pederson   <kpederson@mail.ewu.edu> writes:< > > On Monday 09 February 2004 11:16 am, Dan O'Reilly wrote:< > >> The "SSH" command is defined as a command in DCLTABLES. > > 
 > > [snip] > > M > > How can I tell what commands are loaded into the DCLTABLES?  In searching M > > through help, it looks like they get installed with the install command?  D > > It looks like the /privileged=[group,name] allows you to specify. > > something equivalent to SUID/SGID in *nix? > G >    See earlier post on how to dump DCLTABLES.  INSTALL is involved in G >    setting up the current copy of DCLTABLES, but commands are entered 6 >    via the "set command" command.  I've never seen aB >    /privileged=[group,name] qualifier on any command.  GenerallyJ >    commands the support the /privilege qualifier take a specific list ofG >    privileges, most of which have nothing to do with the file system.  > I >    The equivalent to SUID/SGID in UNIX is done through a much different 8 >    technique, and rarely used in native VMS utilities.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:44:29 +0100 ' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> L Subject: Re: SYS$STARTUP:MMOV$SHUTDOWN.COM -- Insufficiently discriminating?* Message-ID: <c0au9k$6pf$1@news.tudelft.nl>   sms@antinode.org wrote: G >    While playing with my two-workststion cluster (Alpha, VMS V7.3-1), I > I've noticed that the multimedia server keeps dying on my main system.  F > I've lost track of the reasons, but my SYS$MANAGER:SYSHUTDWN.COM (onC > both systems) contains code to run SYS$STARTUP:MMOV$SHUTDOWN.COM.  > I >    Interestingly, running SYS$STARTUP:MMOV$SHUTDOWN.COM appears to shut G > down the MMOV$SERVER process on any node that's convenient, thanks to ; > its rather over-broad search for the MMOV$SERVER process:  >  > $ ctx = ""6 > $!!! Hey, what do I care on which node it's running?; > $!!!                                VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV < > $ temp = F$CONTEXT ("PROCESS", ctx, "NODENAME", "*","EQL")E > $ temp = F$CONTEXT ("PROCESS", ctx, "PRCNAM", "mmov$server", "EQL")  > $ !  > $ pid = F$PID(ctx) > $ IF pid .EQS. ""  > $ THEN > $       exit > $ ELSE6 > $       write sys$output "mmov$server shutting down" > $       Stop /id='pid'	 > $ ENDIF  > G >    So, every time I shut down ALP2, it whacks the MMOV$SERVER on ALP, A > instead of its own.  Is there any good reason for this behavior ? > somewhere else?  (It certainly makes no sense in my cluster.)  > F >    Commenting out the first use of F$CONTEXT solves the problem, as,H > according to the HELP, 'The default is your local node. To request all > nodes, use the value "*".' > * >    PRODUCT SHOW PRODUCT /FULL MMOV says: > ; > DEC AXPVMS MMOV V2.2                Full LP     Installed H I see a simmilar behaviour on my cluster. But only if I run AUTOGEN withA a shutdown on one of the satelites. In that case MMOV dies on my  G bootmember. I reported this once to Compaq (now HP), but they could not H reproduce the problem on their systems and since they cannot ssh/telnet G into my machine, since the support department seems nopt to be allowed  ) to exit their own building the call died.              Jouk   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:56:42 +0100 : From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de>M Subject: TCPIP V5.4: DECnet/IP: remote nodes cannot translate address -> name * Message-ID: <c0ago9$4cl10@doiweb4.b2x.vwg>  7 I've just noticed a problem with TCPIP V5.4 (on Alpha):   U when connecting from the 5.4 system to another remote system (either V5.3 or 5.4) via Z DECnet-over-IP, the remote system is unable to back translate the IP-adress to a name,e.g.= SHO TERMINAL displays IP$10.... instead of nynode.mydomain...   N This leads to a lot of trouble, since our proxy entries are no longer matched.  W I've logged a call and the HP specialist was able to reproduce the error on his system.   F A CDI$TRACE shows, that the remote system was able to find the name!?! --    + mit freundlichen Gren | with best regards   3 Karl Rohwedder          | it-ingteam(at)t-online.de A                          | extern.karl.rohwedder(at)volkswagen.de    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:45:43 +0000 8 From: David McKenzie <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz>Q Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.4: DECnet/IP: remote nodes cannot translate address -> name C Message-ID: <4028d18f$0$52207$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>    Karl Rohwedder wrote:   9 > I've just noticed a problem with TCPIP V5.4 (on Alpha):  > K > when connecting from the 5.4 system to another remote system (either V5.3 K > or 5.4) via DECnet-over-IP, the remote system is unable to back translate I > the IP-adress to a name,e.g. SHO TERMINAL displays IP$10.... instead of  > nynode.mydomain... > G > This leads to a lot of trouble, since our proxy entries are no longer 
 > matched. > J > I've logged a call and the HP specialist was able to reproduce the error > on his system. > H > A CDI$TRACE shows, that the remote system was able to find the name!?!  L This implies that your DNS can not do back translation. Fix your DNS problem     --   David McKenzie  remove rugby  - Web:            http://www.paradigm-shift.biz 7 Mail            David.McKenzie@paradigm-shift.rugby.biz    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2004 06:45:09 -0800% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) Q Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.4: DECnet/IP: remote nodes cannot translate address -> name = Message-ID: <a98cd882.0402100645.31eadd45@posting.google.com>   D From Belgium we have logged the same problem and it was escalated to engineering. No response yet.   	 Bart Zorn     l Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> wrote in message news:<c0ago9$4cl10@doiweb4.b2x.vwg>...9 > I've just noticed a problem with TCPIP V5.4 (on Alpha):  > W > when connecting from the 5.4 system to another remote system (either V5.3 or 5.4) via \ > DECnet-over-IP, the remote system is unable to back translate the IP-adress to a name,e.g.? > SHO TERMINAL displays IP$10.... instead of nynode.mydomain...  > P > This leads to a lot of trouble, since our proxy entries are no longer matched. > Y > I've logged a call and the HP specialist was able to reproduce the error on his system.  > H > A CDI$TRACE shows, that the remote system was able to find the name!?!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:12:00 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? 0 Message-ID: <40289250.249DAC90@sture.homeip.net>   Daryl Jones wrote: > i > glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:<chFVb.208883$nt4.986971@attbi_s51>...  > > Daryl Jones wrote: > > 
 > > (snip) > > L > > > I don't know everything about IBM systems. You can stop a CPU on a VAXJ > > > or Alpha from the console by issuing a control-p, which will produceF > > > the three chevrons >>>. The system will be stop. You can issue aI > > > "continue" and the system will continue were it stop at. There is a 9 > > > time limit and how much time you have I don't know.  > > 8 > > IBM S/360 and successors have a PSW bit called WAIT. > > : > > When set, no instructions are executed, hopefully with< > > interrupts enabled.   There is no NULL job or NULL task. > > ? > > The is especially useful when running on a virtual machine, @ > > as VM doesn't have to use up 100% of its time running a NULL > > task loop. > > D > > The real reason is that IBM used to rent machines, such that the> > > rental charge was based on time actually spent processing.< > > A hardware timer could measure the amount actually used. > > = > > As far as I know, DEC never rented VAX or Alpha that way.  > >  > > -- glen  >  > Dear Glen Herrmannsfeldt:  > 8 > I should have said: "I don't know anything about IBM". > G > There were businesses that rented time out on a VAX/VMS. However, you G > can't charge by cpu runtime. You have to charge by connect time. This C > is due to the runtime not being the same each time the process is G > executed. The difference really showed itself when a process ran with E > no load on the VAX and then on a loaded VAX. This is due to the VMS  > scheduler. >   G Going back 20 years and more, that was always a problem for mainframers @ coming to VMS. They had been used to charging usage out to otherA departments according to CPU, I/O and disk usage, but VMS made it E difficult to pin CPU and I/O usage down the same way, especially when ? using a single process to service requests for multiple users.     --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 03:58:36 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? ) Message-ID: <40289D13.DDB9EC43@istop.com>    Paul Sture wrote: I > Going back 20 years and more, that was always a problem for mainframers B > coming to VMS. They had been used to charging usage out to otherC > departments according to CPU, I/O and disk usage, but VMS made it G > difficult to pin CPU and I/O usage down the same way, especially when @ > using a single process to service requests for multiple users.  M I disagree. Look at the job completion stuff in a VMS batch job. You have the M listing of cpu used, elapsed time, IO etc. And the accounting utility gathers  that information if you wish. < So VMS had the ability to emulate IBM mainframe accounting.   L The difference was more in mentality. Mainframes were batch oriented centralL systems which made it much easier to do accounting. A department knew prettyJ much how much its payroll job would cost to run and print. You got printedL record at the end of the job and at the end of month, you could reconciliateH each job's cost with what accounting charged your dept for MIS services.  L VMS was more a departmental decentralised system, often obtained to get awayJ from those costs of running a job on the mainframe which often were higherG than onwing your own departmental system. And the people who got such a N departmental VAX would not need to run any accounting on it since it was theirJ own department's machine and didn't need to do chargebacks for every user.  N I still remember being asked to run a batch job during the day to  produce allL sorts of bank robbery statistics for one bank, I had warned my boss it couldJ cost a lot but she wanted it ASAP so she could have the reports ready whenL that bank rep would arrive. That one set of reports ended up costing $700 ofN real money to run (we were using a service bureau). My boss didn't speak to meK for days after she saw the bill (even though I had warned her :-). But this K incident is what got the ear of her boss who then warmed up considerably to " the idea of having our own system.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:44:50 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? 0 Message-ID: <4028B622.29168989@sture.homeip.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Paul Sture wrote: K > > Going back 20 years and more, that was always a problem for mainframers D > > coming to VMS. They had been used to charging usage out to otherE > > departments according to CPU, I/O and disk usage, but VMS made it I > > difficult to pin CPU and I/O usage down the same way, especially when B > > using a single process to service requests for multiple users. > O > I disagree. Look at the job completion stuff in a VMS batch job. You have the O > listing of cpu used, elapsed time, IO etc. And the accounting utility gathers  > that information if you wish. = > So VMS had the ability to emulate IBM mainframe accounting.  >   F Sorry, but I did say "Going back 20 years and more". I was thinking ofA things like the disk ACP as a separate process, the amount of CPU H consumed by the swapper and JOB_CONTROL etc. As Daryl pointed out, these: could vary quite a lot depending on load and workload mix.  F In our particular case we were also using a database product which ran1 as a single process, blurring it much, much more.     N > The difference was more in mentality. Mainframes were batch oriented central5 > systems which made it much easier to do accounting.     I can certainly agree with that.   > A department knew prettyL > much how much its payroll job would cost to run and print. You got printedN > record at the end of the job and at the end of month, you could reconciliateJ > each job's cost with what accounting charged your dept for MIS services. > N > VMS was more a departmental decentralised system, often obtained to get awayL > from those costs of running a job on the mainframe which often were higherI > than onwing your own departmental system. And the people who got such a P > departmental VAX would not need to run any accounting on it since it was theirL > own department's machine and didn't need to do chargebacks for every user.   True.    > P > I still remember being asked to run a batch job during the day to  produce allN > sorts of bank robbery statistics for one bank, I had warned my boss it couldL > cost a lot but she wanted it ASAP so she could have the reports ready whenN > that bank rep would arrive. That one set of reports ended up costing $700 ofP > real money to run (we were using a service bureau). My boss didn't speak to meM > for days after she saw the bill (even though I had warned her :-). But thisrM > incident is what got the ear of her boss who then warmed up considerably to?$ > the idea of having our own system.   --     -- V
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:50:27 +0100f* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?d/ Message-ID: <4028B773.5767D8E@sture.homeip.net>o   John Santos wrote: > $ > On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, nospam wrote: > N > > in article 8a646952.0402091631.632ed440@posting.google.com, Daryl Jones atB > > jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net wrote on 10/02/2004 11:31: > >n > > > Dear William Bochnik:n > > >?L > > > Here is another story. I arrived on a site that had the VAXes crashingK > > > for about six months. I investigated the crashes and the crash reportOJ > > > indicated that the OPS people were taking down the system. To make aH > > > long story short. I studied the OPS login procedures and found outK > > > that a "set term/inq" or "set term/appl" cause the system to halt and:H > > > a boot prompt appeared. They log out causing the VAX to crash. TheG > > > switch on the computer was changed to secure mode and the problem  > > L > > > never occurred again. Why did those command cause the problem? I don't > > > know.n > >]& > >     What no crash dump to look at? > I > Are you sure it was the "set term"?  Could be the terminal was set withiD > an answer-back string that contained a ctrl/P.  Or it could be theG > terminal was defective, in design or manufacture, or just broken, andtJ > was sending a BREAK when it received the "What are you" escape sequence. > 5 > I've encountered this similar situation many times:c > H > Some terminals send a BREAK when they are turned off.  Many VAXes haltG > on break.  It probably wasn't the act of logging out that crashed thehA > system, but the BREAK from turning off the terminal, which they - > probably did immediately after logging out.o >   F I came across some third party terminals which sent break on power up.E For some inexplicable reason the console terminals weren't on the UPS: though everything else was.D  G Power cut? No problem - everyone carried on working, but when the poweroE came back the consoles dutifully sent a break and the systems halted.a  5 > Setting the mode switch to "SECURE" cures this too.b   Yep.   > H > And the system hadn't really crashed, it was probably just halted, andF > it they had turned the terminal back on and typed "CONTINUE" quicklyG > enough, it would have resumed normally.  ("Quickly enough" depends oncJ > the environment.  A standalone system can sit there halted indefinitely.J > If there is a network involved, in a minute or so connections will startL > timing out and dropping.  If a VMSCLUSTER is involved, if it loses quorum,F > the whole thing will hang.  If not, the other nodes will continue toB > run normally, but the halted system will crash if not resumed in8 > 1 or 2 RECNXINTERVAL's, which defaults to 20 seconds.) > E > BTW, why are the turning off the console terminal?  Don't they wantaC > to see crashes, pool expansion failures (which can't be logged tohF > OPCOM presumably because it needs pool to send the mailbox message),> > and other various messages, usually about hardware problems? >  > --
 > John Santos- > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > 781-861-0670 ext 539   --     -- M
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2004 08:03:05 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) % Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?h3 Message-ID: <DNcroAmQKUwP@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  w In article <Pine.LNX.4.58-035.0402091706200.20024@unix44.andrew.cmu.edu>, Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:e > L > does anyone know for sure (nothing is mentioned in the documentation i wasK > able to find) how one can tell the machine to halt when it gets ^p on theaH > console? i'm imagining something analogous to the controlp variable inP > the monitor on later vaxen. does it work on later alphas, say, an alphastation > 500, 600, or a miata box?u > 	 > isildurh  F    Early VAXen like the 11/780 got the console prompt when the consoleF    subsystem (such as the LSI-11) had attention.  Then you entered theC    HALT command at the Chevron prompt to actually halt the VAX CPU.c  C    Later VAXen like the MicroVAX II used the VAX CPU as the consoleDE    processor.  When you got the chevron prompt the system was halted,     no need to do anything else.p  5    IIRC Alphas have always been like the later VAXen.i  E    And if you're in kernel mode HALT is available as an instruction. h>    But the console subsystem may react to a CPU HALT from thatF    instruction.  Setting what the console subystem will do in response+    to a HALT instruction is model specific.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 03:38:37 -0500h  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?a6 Message-ID: <1040210032255.15515A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  " On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, nospam wrote:  L > in article 8a646952.0402091631.632ed440@posting.google.com, Daryl Jones at@ > jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net wrote on 10/02/2004 11:31: >  > > Dear William Bochnik:r > > J > > Here is another story. I arrived on a site that had the VAXes crashingI > > for about six months. I investigated the crashes and the crash reportnH > > indicated that the OPS people were taking down the system. To make aF > > long story short. I studied the OPS login procedures and found outI > > that a "set term/inq" or "set term/appl" cause the system to halt and4F > > a boot prompt appeared. They log out causing the VAX to crash. TheE > > switch on the computer was changed to secure mode and the problemm > J > > never occurred again. Why did those command cause the problem? I don't	 > > know.6 > $ >     What no crash dump to look at?  G Are you sure it was the "set term"?  Could be the terminal was set with0B an answer-back string that contained a ctrl/P.  Or it could be theE terminal was defective, in design or manufacture, or just broken, andoH was sending a BREAK when it received the "What are you" escape sequence.  3 I've encountered this similar situation many times:t  F Some terminals send a BREAK when they are turned off.  Many VAXes haltE on break.  It probably wasn't the act of logging out that crashed thet? system, but the BREAK from turning off the terminal, which theyo+ probably did immediately after logging out.   3 Setting the mode switch to "SECURE" cures this too.-  F And the system hadn't really crashed, it was probably just halted, andD it they had turned the terminal back on and typed "CONTINUE" quicklyE enough, it would have resumed normally.  ("Quickly enough" depends oneH the environment.  A standalone system can sit there halted indefinitely.H If there is a network involved, in a minute or so connections will startJ timing out and dropping.  If a VMSCLUSTER is involved, if it loses quorum,D the whole thing will hang.  If not, the other nodes will continue to@ run normally, but the halted system will crash if not resumed in6 1 or 2 RECNXINTERVAL's, which defaults to 20 seconds.)  C BTW, why are the turning off the console terminal?  Don't they want"A to see crashes, pool expansion failures (which can't be logged toqD OPCOM presumably because it needs pool to send the mailbox message),< and other various messages, usually about hardware problems?   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:55:37 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>r% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? . Message-ID: <d28Wb.68$Oj5.11@news.cpqcorp.net>  E There are 2 forms of ^P handling on Alpha.  On large systems like thedJ TurboLaser, there was a second UART wired in parallel on the console port,K all it did was decode for ^P.  It would then cause a non-maskable interrupttE to the SRM console.  The other (the more common) is in the input pathrK processing.  On OPA0: OpenVMS does not directly read/write the hardware, wetH call the firmware to do it.  In the firmware call, it detects the ^P and dispatches it.  K When X11 is active, the firmware is in a pass-through mode and no ^P can bet	 detected.   K On IPF we do not use console firmware to read/write the port, and intercepti* ^P ourselves (right now it enters xDelta).    8 "Lord Isildur" <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote in messageC news:Pine.LNX.4.58-035.0402091721180.20024@unix44.andrew.cmu.edu.... > J > so it is really vms which is halting the machine, not the machine itself6 > intercepting the ^p and halting itself, then, right? >j	 > isildure >S( > On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Daryl Jones wrote: >u > > Dear Lord Isildur: > >sI > > After reading several messages about Alpha's and the control-p, may IxI > > suggest something, attached a terminal to the console and turn on thesB > > opscon messages so that you can see the messages appear on theE > > console/terminal. Now this the important part, don't log onto therH > > Alpha! At this point, you can execute a control-p and should get the! > > chevrons(>>>) or boot prompt.a > > Good Luck. > >m > > Regards, > > Daryl Jonesr > >e: > > Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote in messageD news:<Pine.LNX.4.58-035.0402081426120.3977@unix44.andrew.cmu.edu>...J > > > control-p works on alphas? i've never met an alpha that it worked on (oraI > > > any other way to drop to the chevron from the console, only hitting  theaI > > > halt button or executing a halt instruction).. admittedly, i've not  ever hadJ > > > the console of a big alpha, only workstation alphas, though from the
 very firstI > > > small alphas (dec3000 [346]00's) to miata machines, control-p didnt  get youoG > > > to the chevron. Is there any way to make it so that it does work?i > > >I
 > > > isilduro > > >  > > >w, > > > On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, Daryl Jones wrote: > > >eC > > > > glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in messageS' news:<0ohVb.852$032.16502@attbi_s53>...h > > > > > Daryl Jones wrote:	 > > > > >c	 > > > > > K > > > > > > On the earlier VAXes, the null mode process was use to keep the  systemJ > > > > > > busy during idle times. On the later VAXes and Alphas the null modeK > > > > > > process was removed. Therefore, a later VAX and Alpha processord coulddL > > > > > > have 0-2% utilization when it is idle and 100% when it was being used.a	 > > > > >2J > > > > > Do VAX and Alpha have a way to stop the CPU, like the WAIT state on! > > > > > IBM S/360, S/370, etc.?s	 > > > > >u > > > > > -- gleng > > > >7  > > > > Dear Glen Herrmansfeldt: > > > >mJ > > > > I don't know everything about IBM systems. You can stop a CPU on a VAX.L > > > > or Alpha from the console by issuing a control-p, which will produceH > > > > the three chevrons >>>. The system will be stop. You can issue aK > > > > "continue" and the system will continue were it stop at. There is a ; > > > > time limit and how much time you have I don't know.e > > > >  > > > > Regards, > > > > Daryl Jonesn > > > >e > >y   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2004 09:37:59 -08007 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)n% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?s= Message-ID: <8a646952.0402100937.14bd74ee@posting.google.com>o  d nospam <x@wedontwantyourspam.com> wrote in message news:<BC4E7DD2.22EBD%x@wedontwantyourspam.com>...L > in article 8a646952.0402091631.632ed440@posting.google.com, Daryl Jones at@ > jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net wrote on 10/02/2004 11:31: >  > > Dear William Bochnik:s > > J > > Here is another story. I arrived on a site that had the VAXes crashingI > > for about six months. I investigated the crashes and the crash reportCH > > indicated that the OPS people were taking down the system. To make aF > > long story short. I studied the OPS login procedures and found outI > > that a "set term/inq" or "set term/appl" cause the system to halt andOF > > a boot prompt appeared. They log out causing the VAX to crash. TheE > > switch on the computer was changed to secure mode and the problem  >   J > > never occurred again. Why did those command cause the problem? I don't	 > > know.- > $ >     What no crash dump to look at?   Dear Sir or Madam:  5 All the dump analysis stated was "operator shutdown".w   Regards, Daryl Jonesc   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2004 10:26:50 -08007 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) % Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? = Message-ID: <8a646952.0402101026.2dbf48f1@posting.google.com>w   Dear John Santos:a  A If a computer system ceases to run and reboots, generally that is=D referred to as a crash. Only after the crash dump analysis indicated= that the system was shutdown by operation (operator requestedIF shutdown), did I know it wasn't a system crash. The crash dump historyF file continued to tell me that the VAXes were being shutdown abruptly.  F I was keeping an eye those VAXes when the operator told me that he hadF just log into a VAX and found the boot prompt. I told him to enter theB word "continue" and a carriage-return, which he did. The terminalsA were Digital terminals of the time. Also, the OPS staff was usingEE these terminals continuously. As a daily procedure, there were to log C into each system and look at the OPSCON messages. The OPS personnels? didn't have a clue what they were seeing and the current systemtE managers weren't paying attention as to why the systems were crashingrE on regular basis. The OPSCON message was going into a file. I believe # VAX Cluster Console was being used.R  D How did I know it was a "Set term/inq" or "Set Term/appl"? After theA operator told me that he had just log into the VAX where the bootc< prompt appear, I started to investigate their operator loginF procedures, which included their login command file. I used a operatorC login account and started with an empty login file and slowly added=E each command that was executed during their login. Guess what? When I)E added the "Set term/inq" to this test login file. I received the bootmF prompt. When I added the "Set term/appl" command again the boot promptF appear. No other commands in the login command file generated the boot prompt.t   Regards,
 Daryl Jones  y    ^ John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in message news:<1040210032255.15515A-100000@Ives.egh.com>...$ > On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, nospam wrote: > N > > in article 8a646952.0402091631.632ed440@posting.google.com, Daryl Jones atB > > jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net wrote on 10/02/2004 11:31: > >  > > > Dear William Bochnik:0 > > > L > > > Here is another story. I arrived on a site that had the VAXes crashingK > > > for about six months. I investigated the crashes and the crash reportAJ > > > indicated that the OPS people were taking down the system. To make aH > > > long story short. I studied the OPS login procedures and found outK > > > that a "set term/inq" or "set term/appl" cause the system to halt andnH > > > a boot prompt appeared. They log out causing the VAX to crash. TheG > > > switch on the computer was changed to secure mode and the problem< >  2L > > > never occurred again. Why did those command cause the problem? I don't > > > know.  > > & > >     What no crash dump to look at? > I > Are you sure it was the "set term"?  Could be the terminal was set withbD > an answer-back string that contained a ctrl/P.  Or it could be theG > terminal was defective, in design or manufacture, or just broken, andIJ > was sending a BREAK when it received the "What are you" escape sequence. > 5 > I've encountered this similar situation many times:  > H > Some terminals send a BREAK when they are turned off.  Many VAXes haltG > on break.  It probably wasn't the act of logging out that crashed theeA > system, but the BREAK from turning off the terminal, which theym- > probably did immediately after logging out.  > 5 > Setting the mode switch to "SECURE" cures this too.h > H > And the system hadn't really crashed, it was probably just halted, andF > it they had turned the terminal back on and typed "CONTINUE" quicklyG > enough, it would have resumed normally.  ("Quickly enough" depends on J > the environment.  A standalone system can sit there halted indefinitely.J > If there is a network involved, in a minute or so connections will startL > timing out and dropping.  If a VMSCLUSTER is involved, if it loses quorum,F > the whole thing will hang.  If not, the other nodes will continue toB > run normally, but the halted system will crash if not resumed in8 > 1 or 2 RECNXINTERVAL's, which defaults to 20 seconds.) > E > BTW, why are the turning off the console terminal?  Don't they want-C > to see crashes, pool expansion failures (which can't be logged toaF > OPCOM presumably because it needs pool to send the mailbox message),> > and other various messages, usually about hardware problems?   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2004 10:59:45 -08007 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones):% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?"= Message-ID: <8a646952.0402101059.10df799a@posting.google.com>    Dear JF Mezai:  7 I respectfully disagree with your analysis and reasons.   D I was told about this problem with VMS when I was managing a VAX 750= using VMS 2.5 (1982) by someone who ran a VAX/VMS timesharing E business. So, I conducted a test to see if this is true because I wasr@ trying to justify the cost of having the VAX on site. The test IA conducted clearly showed a job run in the middle of the night (nov9 load) and again during normal hours (high load), reportedlC significantly different CPU and other resource consumption. The VMSh scheduler causes this anomaly.  D Therefore, it is not a mentality difference. At different sites, theA accounting software on a VMS system is used for resource trackingXF (batch and interactive) for capacity planning and system justification on all levels of business.   Regards, Daryl Jones   [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<40289D13.DDB9EC43@istop.com>...c > Paul Sture wrote:MK > > Going back 20 years and more, that was always a problem for mainframers D > > coming to VMS. They had been used to charging usage out to otherE > > departments according to CPU, I/O and disk usage, but VMS made iteI > > difficult to pin CPU and I/O usage down the same way, especially whensB > > using a single process to service requests for multiple users. > O > I disagree. Look at the job completion stuff in a VMS batch job. You have the O > listing of cpu used, elapsed time, IO etc. And the accounting utility gathersa > that information if you wish.d> > So VMS had the ability to emulate IBM mainframe accounting.  > N > The difference was more in mentality. Mainframes were batch oriented centralN > systems which made it much easier to do accounting. A department knew prettyL > much how much its payroll job would cost to run and print. You got printedN > record at the end of the job and at the end of month, you could reconciliateJ > each job's cost with what accounting charged your dept for MIS services. > N > VMS was more a departmental decentralised system, often obtained to get awayL > from those costs of running a job on the mainframe which often were higherI > than onwing your own departmental system. And the people who got such atP > departmental VAX would not need to run any accounting on it since it was theirL > own department's machine and didn't need to do chargebacks for every user. > P > I still remember being asked to run a batch job during the day to  produce allN > sorts of bank robbery statistics for one bank, I had warned my boss it couldL > cost a lot but she wanted it ASAP so she could have the reports ready whenN > that bank rep would arrive. That one set of reports ended up costing $700 ofP > real money to run (we were using a service bureau). My boss didn't speak to meM > for days after she saw the bill (even though I had warned her :-). But this M > incident is what got the ear of her boss who then warmed up considerably top$ > the idea of having our own system.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:00:05 +0100i- From: "Fastman" <arg_pas_adressse@dutout.com>e@ Subject: [Q]OpenVms 7.3  TCPIP 4.1 Eco 4 and hpjetdirect 170X...* Message-ID: <c0b2m9$rlj$1@news.tiscali.fr>   Hello,  J I have just installed a new HP 170X on our lan in order to use the printer with OpenVMS  K I have some experience on this kind of jetdirect because we already have inn our business  an hp 170W  & This is the characteristics of the 170  ( NT_TRANSPORT|nt_transport|NT_TRANSPORT:\6         :lf=/SYS$SPECIFIC/TCPIP$LPD/NT_TRANSPORT.LOG:\         :lp=NT_TRANSPORT:\         :rm=128.30.2.3:9100:\U         :rp=TEXT:\1         :sd=/SYS$SPECIFIC/TCPIP$LPD/NT_TRANSPORT:T  F I tried with the same option (ip different of course) to configure the 170X....   But it doesn't work.  D So i created the queue with the telnet symbion. It's working but the% printing is slower than on the 170...o   Please help me (beattles)! -- Emmanuel BONHOMMEo C.S.G.V. BP 51  51202 EPERNAY CEDEX (FRANCE)     --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.580 / Virus Database: 367 - Release Date: 06/02/2004    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.081 ************************