0 INFO-VAX	Wed, 11 Feb 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 83      Contents: Re: A Portrait of Victimhood Re: A Portrait of Victimhood) Re: Adding internal disks to ES40 Model 2 ) Re: Adding internal disks to ES40 Model 2   Analyzing TCPIP network failures+ Re: chicken and egg: shadowing and licenses + Re: chicken and egg: shadowing and licenses + Re: chicken and egg: shadowing and licenses + Re: chicken and egg: shadowing and licenses + Re: chicken and egg: shadowing and licenses  Re: CVS on VMS problem& Re: DHCP Client request for assistance Re: DTSESSION annomalie  Re: DTSESSION annomalie  Re: DTSESSION annomalie  File transfers to a PC, Free to anyone who can use them - 2 HSD05's. Re: Frequently Asked Questions# Fully configured ES40 for USD13,495 ' Re: Fully configured ES40 for USD13,495 ' Re: Fully configured ES40 for USD13,495 6 Re: Galactic Idle Loop (Was: Why was VAX abandonned ?)6 Re: Galactic Idle Loop (Was: Why was VAX abandonned ?)6 Re: Galactic Idle Loop (Was: Why was VAX abandonned ?)# Help needed - Hobbyist license, etc ' Re: Help needed - Hobbyist license, etc 8 Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD Athlon8 Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD Athlon8 Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD Athlon8 Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD Athlon8 Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD Athlon Re: HTTP server for OpenVMS???P Re: Intel and Microsoft provide higher 32-bit applications performance on ItaniuP Re: Intel and Microsoft provide higher 32-bit applications performance on Itaniu: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! Re: Moderate this group  Re: OpenVMS Feelings Re: OpenVMS FeelingsK Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... ...... H Re: OT: Another American arrested in Brazil after making obscene gestureH Re: OT: Another American arrested in Brazil after making obscene gestureA Re: page- and swap-files, autogen, modparams.dat, file-naming etc 
 Pinging Brian  Re: PSION, another Digital Re: Respond Mezei  Re: Rumours of (CPU) Wars  VMS and Unicode  Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? RE: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?; [OpenVMS VAX V7.3, Alpha V7.3-2] Bug in SYS$FAO still there 0 Re: [TCPIP V5.4] DHCP client problem/observation  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:14:30 GMT D From: "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowTOHAVEANDHAVENOT@earthlink.net>% Subject: Re: A Portrait of Victimhood D Message-ID: <qz6Wb.19477$jH6.18667@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>   Imya Rek wrote:   E > Gregory Morrow <gregorymorrowTOHAVEANDHAVENOT@earthlink.net> wrote:  >  > >  > >starwars wrote: > >  > > H > >> Gregory Morrow <gregorymorrowTOHAVEANDHAVENOT@earthlink.net> wrote: > >> > >> >I am *humbled*...lol ;--)  > >> >F > >> >[At least JF won't ask me "May I call you Ellen?"...he's already 'round > >the/ > >> >bend thinking that I am his "nemesis"...]  > >>F > >> Yes ... typical of his habit of over-dramatizing, by using a veryF > >> negatively-charged word like "nemesis".  Ever the victim, JF sees himself L > >> as this poor little innocent soul who is being tormented by the big bad
 > >> meanies.  > >  > > L > >We should force JF to do the Amtrak Montreal - NYC run again so he has toG > >endure the US Immigration check.  Is he on their "terrorist" list, I  > >wonder...???  > L > Well, as we now know from hindsight Canada is a safe haven for terrorists, and % > the border is notoriously porous...  > 2 > Wonder which mosque he attends in Montreal...... > G > >> The key to understanding JF is understanding his need to wallow in 3 > >> victimhood.  Read all about it in his FAQ. :-)  > >>L > >> (Maybe you can pass along a copy of it to your FA friend at UA and they > >canL > >> print it up in their onboard magazine.  Would make for some fun reading on$ > >> those long-hauls to Asia. ;-) ) > >  > > K > >They know all about JF...in fact we were discussing him last night.  One  ofK > >the guys used to lurk here a coupla years ago and he was always mightily J > >amused by Ellen...I told him that most of the colorful old gang (Ellen,L > >Sheryl, Miss Jayson Mayfield, danbel, et. al.) were long - gone, but like a B > >bad case of genital herpes, JF is still lurking about...lol.... > H > Ah, the good old days... Ellen beating the shit out of JF, Sjoerd, and Vitaly, J > Sheryl having her way with Voight.  We had it so good and we hardly knew it.  >     J Ellen's MO was to light up one of her Australian Marlboros and then put itH out in whoever's face she was getting in on that particular day...pretty funny!    L > danbel still pokes his dainty little head in whenever his panties get in a tight = > bunch over some opera trip to Europe.  He usually asks real  earth-shatteringK > questions like "Does Lufthansa stock sanitary napkins in the lavatories?"  orL > "Emergency! Will Swissair give me a hot towel before I land in Zurich??? I HAVE4 > to have one or I won't look fresh for my hosts!!!"    J I loved it when Sheryl referred to danbel as "Danbel (who wishes I'd go to hell)"...lol....    K > Wonder what happened to Miss Mayfield?!  His exploits picking up male FAs  in! > first class were always a hoot.     L Well, those male FA's must have been blind because from the amateur pix thatF Miss Jason posted of herself on her website,  she was pretty oogly...aH real - life "troll", in fact.  She's prolly lurking under some bridge inK Rock Creek Park trying to snag wayward Georgetown U. jogging jocks...or she F might even be lurking in the bushes by the jogging trail just north of0 National Airport in an attempt to snag a Marine!   --   Best Greg   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:23:36 +0100 # From: edo <nobody@cryptorebels.net> % Subject: Re: A Portrait of Victimhood ? Message-ID: <7a0ac7a9b3d38c3a9a81aa1051a1639c@cryptorebels.net>   C Gregory Morrow <gregorymorrowTOHAVEANDHAVENOT@earthlink.net> wrote:   M >Well, those male FA's must have been blind because from the amateur pix that G >Miss Jason posted of herself on her website,  she was pretty oogly...a I >real - life "troll", in fact.  She's prolly lurking under some bridge in L >Rock Creek Park trying to snag wayward Georgetown U. jogging jocks...or sheG >might even be lurking in the bushes by the jogging trail just north of 1 >National Airport in an attempt to snag a Marine!   2 Ouch!  Meeeoooowwww!  Put those claws back in. ;-)  * I thought you two gals got on so famously!  N I do remember that blonde dye job he had on some of those pix.  And he *still*; had a few extra pounds, even after all that running.  Hmmm.   P Maybe he's the one who kidnapped Chandra Levy in the park ... wanted her hair to7 make a nice big frizzy wig for himself or something....    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Feb 2004 10:27:17 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) 2 Subject: Re: Adding internal disks to ES40 Model 2= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0402111027.425eb327@posting.google.com>   i svieth@wi.rr.com (Scott Vieth) wrote in message news:<5a85bce2.0402021231.371adc57@posting.google.com>... E > Does anyone have recommendations for which SCSI controller I should A > use in my ES40?  I'd like to do some controller-based mirroring H > (especially if I could get write-back caching!) but I would settle for> > a "dumb" controller and then use VolShad or host-based RAID.  " The ES40 Supported Options List atH http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/options/ases40/ases40_options.htmlD has many choices for you, including both "dumb" controllers and RAID; controllers (with writeback cache options) for local disks.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Feb 2004 10:43:22 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) 2 Subject: Re: Adding internal disks to ES40 Model 2< Message-ID: <cf15391e.0402111043.99e5b49@posting.google.com>   Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> wrote in message news:<qvETb.12662$t02.110@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>... > Scott Vieth wrote: ... G > > Does anyone have recommendations for which SCSI controller I should C > > use in my ES40?  I'd like to do some controller-based mirroring J > > (especially if I could get write-back caching!) but I would settle for@ > > a "dumb" controller and then use VolShad or host-based RAID. ... ' > and why would wone want to do that???    Cost might be one reason.   = System management is certainly easier when all the storage is A consolidated on the SAN.  But keeping resources separate might be D another reason for local storage. (I just got back from a site which= had recently consolidated all their storage from multiple HSx C controllers in multiple clusters onto a single EVA pair, with their B development and production and QA storage all together, which madeC resource allocation and system management easy, but found that even E though the EVA is a screamer, heavy load testing in the QA department F could adversely affect performance of critical production applicationsE on the same EVA pair, and they've decided to buy another EVA and move  development & QA to that.)  ! > the mirror/HBVS and Host-Based  ? > RAID have severe performance degradation compared to the EVA.   D I don't think I'd agree with a generalization of "severe performanceE degradation".  Almost no one uses host-based RAID software for RAID-5 E anymore, and that's the area where one could arguably say performance @ could be severely degraded, if you're talking specifically about@ writes (for reads, in contrast, host-based RAID-5 performance isC exceptional, as you benefit from the striping effects; as a result, B some customers use host-based RAID-5 for its excellent performanceB (along with a degree of protection) for read-only data, at a lower cost than HBVS).  > Many high-end VMS customers use HBVS to shadow across multipleC controllers, to avoid any controller [pair] being a single point of D failure, and many use host-based RAID to form RAID 0+1 arrays acrossC multiple controllers because even with the fastest controllers, the @ larger shops can generate loads in their large clusters that can: saturate any single controller of any model, even the EVA.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:35:55 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>) Subject: Analyzing TCPIP network failures ) Message-ID: <402A59E4.3968A9FD@istop.com>   N 1- It would be neat if there were some hook in the inetACP such that a processM could be notified  whenever a connection attempt from the VMS host to another  host fails.     N 2- In cases where you suspect a network failure somewhere upstream, how do you track it down ?     J Do you hardcode specific IP adresses of upstream routers to ping to see atL what point connectivity would have been lost ?  (if the path to a DNS server4 is gone, you may not be able to ping by host name) ?  L If you keep the IP addresses of relevant routers in a command procedure, how3 often to you check to ensure they are still valid ?   L In a similar vein, is there a trick to get a local DNS server to always keepO an updated copy in cache of a list of host names (that don't belong to you) ?     N This way, in case of a ISP's DNS server failing, your own DNS would still have IP adresses of relevant hosts.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2004 23:35:05 -0800% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) 4 Subject: Re: chicken and egg: shadowing and licenses= Message-ID: <a98cd882.0402102335.4fec667c@posting.google.com>   E The VOLSHAD license probably works the same way as the base operating B system license and the {VAX|VMS}CLUSTER license. You can start theA system and mount the shadowsets without a license, but as soon as B someone tries to use them, the system will complain if there is no license.  : However, this does not explain why you get those messages.  	 Bart Zorn   | helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote in message news:<c0bn6e$osd$2@online.de>...? > In article <a98cd882.0402090632.484a9b4f@posting.google.com>, * > Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) writes:  > E > > The LICENSE facility is started during the CONFIG phase of system J > > startup. This is after SYLOGICALS has been executed during the DEVICES
 > > phase. > > G > > On my systems, I mount all disks, be it shadow sets or plain disks, F > > from SYLOGICALS.COM, way before the LICENSE facility is started. IH > > have the cluster wide LMF$LICENSE.LDB file on a shadowed, non-systemH > > disk. The cluster wide logical name LMF$LICENSE points to this file. > > 1 > > And I get no license warnings during startup!  > > G > > From your description I do not see what you are doing different. It  > > must be some detail. > F > I don't see the difference either.  Which behaviour seems correct to > you?   > J > I mount the cluster-wide disk from SYLOGICALS.COM and mount other disks  > later on.    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:47:41 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)4 Subject: Re: chicken and egg: shadowing and licenses$ Message-ID: <c0bn2d$osd$1@online.de>  C In article <ukpe20tr0slste9shh7fvi73n63sq7f1vu@4ax.com>, John Laird % <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:    C > Just have enough licenses in each local database to get started,    H I have that (but hadn't had shadowing on all nodes, since I didn't need E it in the past, apparently---but perhaps I don't need it now; see my   next article in this thread)...   
 > and thenM > issue a $ LICE LOAD/DATA=common_database.ldb command at a suitable point in  > your startup.     F ...and just added this after the cluster-wide disk is mounted.  (Both G the mount and the license are in a loop which checks to see if it is a  H cluster member---if not, there is little point in trying, and I usually D set VAXCLUSTER to 0 when doing maintenance stuff, mainly to prevent  shadow copies from occurring.)  ; > I don't see a particularly strong need for a cluster-wide K > database, compared with the likes of sysuaf, rightslist, vmsmail_profile, I > job queue database, etc.  Most of the time, you are hardly touching it.   I True.  However, I like things to be consistent, so put ALL such files on   the common disk.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:49:50 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)4 Subject: Re: chicken and egg: shadowing and licenses$ Message-ID: <c0bn6e$osd$2@online.de>  = In article <a98cd882.0402090632.484a9b4f@posting.google.com>, ( Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) writes:   C > The LICENSE facility is started during the CONFIG phase of system H > startup. This is after SYLOGICALS has been executed during the DEVICES > phase. > E > On my systems, I mount all disks, be it shadow sets or plain disks, D > from SYLOGICALS.COM, way before the LICENSE facility is started. IF > have the cluster wide LMF$LICENSE.LDB file on a shadowed, non-systemF > disk. The cluster wide logical name LMF$LICENSE points to this file. > / > And I get no license warnings during startup!  > E > From your description I do not see what you are doing different. It  > must be some detail.  D I don't see the difference either.  Which behaviour seems correct to you?    H I mount the cluster-wide disk from SYLOGICALS.COM and mount other disks 	 later on.    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:21:06 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)4 Subject: Re: chicken and egg: shadowing and licenses$ Message-ID: <c0cvmi$id4$1@online.de>  = In article <a98cd882.0402102335.4fec667c@posting.google.com>, ( Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) writes:   G > The VOLSHAD license probably works the same way as the base operating D > system license and the {VAX|VMS}CLUSTER license. You can start theC > system and mount the shadowsets without a license, but as soon as D > someone tries to use them, the system will complain if there is no
 > license.  E That's what I was hoping.  With a shadowed system disk, it obviously  3 gets both members mounted before the license check.   < > However, this does not explain why you get those messages.  6 I'll try to capture the output during the next reboot.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Feb 2004 03:33:30 -0800, From: kor.rinkens@vodafone.com (Kor Rinkens)4 Subject: Re: chicken and egg: shadowing and licenses= Message-ID: <d69b99f3.0402110333.2fb8611f@posting.google.com>   j Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) wrote in message news:<a98cd882.0402102335.4fec667c@posting.google.com>...G > The VOLSHAD license probably works the same way as the base operating D > system license and the {VAX|VMS}CLUSTER license. You can start theC > system and mount the shadowsets without a license, but as soon as D > someone tries to use them, the system will complain if there is no
 > license. > < > However, this does not explain why you get those messages. >  > Bart Zorn  > ~ > helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote in message news:<c0bn6e$osd$2@online.de>...A > > In article <a98cd882.0402090632.484a9b4f@posting.google.com>, , > > Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) writes:  > > G > > > The LICENSE facility is started during the CONFIG phase of system L > > > startup. This is after SYLOGICALS has been executed during the DEVICES > > > phase. > > > I > > > On my systems, I mount all disks, be it shadow sets or plain disks, H > > > from SYLOGICALS.COM, way before the LICENSE facility is started. IJ > > > have the cluster wide LMF$LICENSE.LDB file on a shadowed, non-systemJ > > > disk. The cluster wide logical name LMF$LICENSE points to this file. > > > 3 > > > And I get no license warnings during startup!  > > > I > > > From your description I do not see what you are doing different. It  > > > must be some detail. > > H > > I don't see the difference either.  Which behaviour seems correct to	 > > you?   > > L > > I mount the cluster-wide disk from SYLOGICALS.COM and mount other disks 
 > > later on.      Hi   Explanation is easy.  E It does not matter where you mount the disks with shadowing. The only F thing what matters is that you have a shadowing license for each node,B and that you put a include in the shadowing license for each node.  E 1) Maybe it is this. It assumes the license database is on the system  diskD What happens is that if the first node is booted, and a license loadF for shadowing is done, and if you did not put a include in the licenseC definition. All the licenses for shadowing are loaded for the first E node, what you should do is to put a include in each license for each F node the cluster. Otherwise there is no license more remaining for the second node you boot.      < 2) Or this if the license database it not on the system disk7 MOunt the disk where the licenses database is in in the > sylogicals.com, and then define the logical lmf$license in the? sylogicals.com to tell the system where it can find the license 	 database. @ Define/System/Exec Lmf$License    Dsa100:<Sysexe>Lmf$License.Ldb   Regards Kor    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:31:06 +0100 ' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>  Subject: Re: CVS on VMS problem * Message-ID: <c0atgi$6ie$1@news.tudelft.nl>   Colin Blake wrote: > Robert Trawinski wrote:  > 
 >> Hi all, >>F >> We use in our projects CVS client for VMS (version 1.11.2) . Local $ >> source tree I have on ODS-5 disk.E >> Procces'  parse style is EXTENDED. But when I fetch OpenSSL files  ( >> errors occur.  In OpenSSL source tree4 >> there are multidot files. And that's the problem. >>2 >> Did anyone has the same problem? Any solution?  >  > H > I fixed this problem in CVS client a while ago. I think this modified 9 > version of the client maybe shipping in GNV now. Steve?    On my web page7 http://nchrem.tnw.tudelft.nl/openvms/software2.html#cvs 8 is described how I compiled version 1.12.5 (client only) with ODS5 support included.                     Jouk    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Feb 2004 16:07:32 GMT! From: vmsquest@aol.com (VMSQuest) / Subject: Re: DHCP Client request for assistance : Message-ID: <20040211110732.24764.00001772@mb-m16.aol.com>   Since 3 "550 Programmed rejection for source host/address." M prevents me from thanking the one helpful person privately, I offer my thanks  here.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:15:36 +0100 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>  Subject: Re: DTSESSION annomalie: Message-ID: <MCELKPMOKPMNDNKJNIONKEJHCKAA.win@fom.fgan.de>   Hello,   Phillip Helbig did wrote:  >>> P If you look in the log, you will see that it is repeating the same error message over and over. <<<   M Does this mean, that there is some information within this logfile instead of O inuse count is zero. I did delete this file, because I did think, that there is P no information in it. also did it occupie more then 45Million blocks of the disk space.   Best regards Rudolf Wingert    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Feb 2004 00:40:16 -0800. From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby)  Subject: Re: DTSESSION annomalie< Message-ID: <224291b.0402110040.62bdd22e@posting.google.com>  $ This is fixed in DECwindows V1.3-1.   B The problem is that if the Screen Saver is stopped just when it isE starting, it can remain, unseen, looping and producing X errors which " are logged by the session manager.  D You can substantially reduce the likelihood of the problem by havingA only a single screen saver selected or by setting the period each  saver runs for to a long time.   See release note 2.3.2 at:   I http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732final/6470/6470pro_001.html#smlog_nofill    Martin Kirby DECwindows engineer   j "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote in message news:<MCELKPMOKPMNDNKJNIONIEINCKAA.win@fom.fgan.de>... > Hello, > O > a few day ago I did check all user disk and did see, that one was full. A few P > minutes after a purge, the disk was full again. The SHOW SYSTEM command showedN > me, that DTSESSION did have an unvieable count of I/O. Then I looked for theM > open files and did see, that the open DTSESSION.LOG did have allocated over P > 45Million blocks of diskspace. The inuse count was zero. Every time I did freeK > some diskspace DTSESSION did catch it for this logfile. Does anybody know N > something about this problem. We do have OpenVMS 7.3-1 with DECwindows Motif' > 1.2-5 and a lot of patches installed.  >  > Best regards Rudolf Wingert    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:23:37 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)  Subject: Re: DTSESSION annomalie$ Message-ID: <c0cvr9$id4$2@online.de>  B In article <MCELKPMOKPMNDNKJNIONKEJHCKAA.win@fom.fgan.de>, "Rudolf# Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> writes:    R > If you look in the log, you will see that it is repeating the same error message > over and over. > O > Does this mean, that there is some information within this logfile instead of Q > inuse count is zero. I did delete this file, because I did think, that there is R > no information in it. also did it occupie more then 45Million blocks of the disk > space.  H If it's the same error I had, then the used size is 0 but the allocated G size is huge.  However, it is not flushed.  Restart DECwindows and the  8 file will get flushed and you can see what is inside it.  F Come to think of it, in my case the file was SYS$MANAGER:DECW$SM.LOG, 5 not the DTSESSION, but the symptoms sounded the same.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Feb 2004 10:00:46 -0800* From: kcoughlin@theunionleader.com (Kevin) Subject: File transfers to a PC = Message-ID: <ce501608.0402111000.36a1c2b4@posting.google.com>   C Is there a faster way to transfer files from the Vax to the PC than D just using Reflection and the VAX network? My PC is dual port with aC network connection and a Vax connection. I connect to the VAX using B Reflection using the Vax netwok and transfer file to my PC. I haveF Reflection runing as fast as it can. The Vax network is very slow withF transfer rates at about 4 - 7 kb/sec. It is taking hours for some file to transfer.F Is there a better way to do this? Can the Vax somehow connect directly? to the ethernet network? We thought maybe we could connect a PC ( directly to the Coax server for the Vax.( Any help or ideas would be appreciated..   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:24:33 +0000  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> 5 Subject: Free to anyone who can use them - 2 HSD05's. 4 Message-ID: <c0dhfj$akk$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>  2 I no longer have any DSSI equipment at home, so my- 2 HSD05's are free for anyone who wants them.   $ I'm 10 miles south of Cambridge, UK.  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:06:07 GMT  From: "None" <none@nospam.org>' Subject: Re: Frequently Asked Questions @ Message-ID: <3itWb.231$WW3.230@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>  0 Why hasn't this stalker been thrown in jail yet?   --   ***/***/***  When life gives you lemons Skullfuck everyone in sight! http://wonderofitall.com/    ***/***/***    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:53:24 -0500 ; From: "Island Computers USA" <dbturner@islandco.com.nospam> , Subject: Fully configured ES40 for USD13,4950 Message-ID: <102k96npvgnba9e@news.supernews.com>   Alphaserver ES40 M1  Dual 667Mhz EV67 Dual Power Supplies 
 1GB Memory 4 Slot Disk Cage 18GB Hot Pluggable Disk  10/100 Ethernet  U2 SCSI Controller Rackmount or Pedestal Kit  New HP Authorized Licenses VMS Base + EIP & SMP License  < Only $13,495 with 1 Year Advanced Parts replacement warranty   Call or email us today     --   Island Computers US Corporation  2700 Gregory St., Suite 180  Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: sales@nospam.hpaq.net http://www.hpaq.net    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Feb 2004 10:20:10 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 0 Subject: Re: Fully configured ES40 for USD13,4953 Message-ID: <wsgYAtnC6t$g@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <102k96npvgnba9e@news.supernews.com>, "Island Computers USA" <dbturner@islandco.com.nospam> writes: > Alphaserver ES40 M1  > Dual 667Mhz EV67  K By my reckoning, a "fully configured" ES40 would have 4 CPUs rather than 2.    > Dual Power Supplies  > 1GB Memory > 4 Slot Disk Cage > 18GB Hot Pluggable Disk  > 10/100 Ethernet  > U2 SCSI Controller > Rackmount or Pedestal Kit  > New HP Authorized Licenses > VMS Base + EIP & SMP License > > > Only $13,495 with 1 Year Advanced Parts replacement warranty   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:38:35 -0800 3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> 0 Subject: Re: Fully configured ES40 for USD13,495. Message-ID: <402A689B.9030804@Flying-Disk.com>   Island Computers USA wrote:    > Alphaserver ES40 M1   7 Just curious.   What is the difference between the ES40  Mod 1 and the Mod 2?   Thanks,  Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2004 23:32:21 -08007 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) ? Subject: Re: Galactic Idle Loop (Was: Why was VAX abandonned ?) = Message-ID: <8a646952.0402102332.39397cb6@posting.google.com>    Dear Keith A. Lewis:  A "Prior to Version 5.0, VMS included a null process with a context E similiar to that of the swapper process. All CPU time not used by any C other process in the system was used executing the null process. In F version 5.0, a null PCB and PHD are defined as placeholders, but thereF is no null process to schedule for execution. SMP support necessitated a different form of idle loop."   E From VAX/VMS Internals and Data Structures, by Ruth E. Goldenberg and = Lawrence J. Kenah, copywrite 1991, page 20, second paragraph.   D The null process is a dummy process that not being schedule for work! as of the reference stated above.    Regards, Daryl Jones   b lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) wrote in message news:<c0bl1t$5vl$1@newslocal.mitre.org>... > hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes in article <j1cWb.109$cy5.77@news.cpqcorp.net> dated Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:27:43 GMT:K > >Some time ago a former colleague observed the strong coorelation between J > >CPU idle time and performance.  He postulated that performance could be< > >improoved by increasing the priority of the null process. >  > Haha!  > I > >Fortunately (at least in some opinions) the null process was elminated ; > >(as part of SMP work, IIRC) before this could be tested.  > C > The NULL process still exists on VMS(as of V7.3-1), just hidden.  8 > Normally the PID of NULL is one less than SWAPPER's.   >  > $ sho sys/own=systemO > OpenVMS V7.3-1  on node SIENNA  10-FEB-2004 22:11:24.53  Uptime  110 07:40:55 O >   Pid    Process Name    State  Pri      I/O       CPU       Page flts  Pages O > 00000401 SWAPPER         HIB     16        0   0 00:00:00.31         0      0 O > 00000404 LANACP          HIB     13       61   0 00:00:00.02        94    116 O > 00000406 IPCACP          HIB     10       10   0 00:00:00.00        32     42 O > 00000409 OPCOM           HIB      6     8538   0 00:00:00.70      1081     43  > [snip] > $ sho proc/id=400  > I > 10-FEB-2004 22:11:54.69   User: SYSTEM           Process ID:   00000400 G >                           Node: SIENNA           Process name: "NULL"  >  > Terminal:  > User Identifier:    [0,0]  > Base priority:      0 # > Default file spec:  Not available  > Number of Kthreads: 1  > 2 > --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:27:43 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) ? Subject: Re: Galactic Idle Loop (Was: Why was VAX abandonned ?) / Message-ID: <j1cWb.109$cy5.77@news.cpqcorp.net>   H Some time ago a former colleague observed the strong coorelation betweenG CPU idle time and performance.  He postulated that performance could be 9 improoved by increasing the priority of the null process.   F Fortunately (at least in some opinions) the null process was elminated8 (as part of SMP work, IIRC) before this could be tested. --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:17:25 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)? Subject: Re: Galactic Idle Loop (Was: Why was VAX abandonned ?) . Message-ID: <c0drjl$apq$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) writes in article <8a646952.0402102332.39397cb6@posting.google.com> dated 10 Feb 2004 23:32:21 -0800:  >Dear Keith A. Lewis:  > B >"Prior to Version 5.0, VMS included a null process with a contextF >similiar to that of the swapper process. All CPU time not used by anyD >other process in the system was used executing the null process. InG >version 5.0, a null PCB and PHD are defined as placeholders, but there G >is no null process to schedule for execution. SMP support necessitated   >a different form of idle loop." > F >From VAX/VMS Internals and Data Structures, by Ruth E. Goldenberg and> >Lawrence J. Kenah, copywrite 1991, page 20, second paragraph. > E >The null process is a dummy process that not being schedule for work " >as of the reference stated above.  J Looks like you're right.  I just checked mine, and they don't use any CPU.K I wonder why "show proc/acc" displays 12 blank lines after the reglar data.   0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:24:35 +1300 1 From: Tux Wonder-Dog <wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> , Subject: Help needed - Hobbyist license, etc4 Message-ID: <ltnWb.23475$ws.2919084@news02.tsnz.net>  G I've finally got my hobbyist OpenVMS license; someone mentioned quite a K while back on this newsgroup that all I needed to do was say where I am and H ask if there was anyone nearby ready to loan me the use of their cdroms.  K Well, I'm in St Albans, Christchurch, New Zealand; I've got at least three kI freely-redistributable Vax emulators (SIMH, TS10, and evax) for my Linux s8 machine - all I need is a helping hand and the software.  6 Anyone in the neighbourhood ready and willing to help?  
 Wesley Parishg -- aG "Good, late in to more rewarding well."  "Well, you tonight.  And I wasVK lookintelligent woman of Ming home.  I trust you with a tender silence."  IaC get a word into my hands, a different and unbelike, probably - 'shee= fortunate fat woman', wrong word.  I think to me, I justupid.rG Let not emacs meta-X dissociate-press write your romantic dialogs...!!!    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:09:06 +0100e3 From: "Maarten van Breemen" <van.breemen@hccnet.nl> 0 Subject: Re: Help needed - Hobbyist license, etc; Message-ID: <402a0de3$0$158$6c56d894@diablo.nl.easynet.net>   F Well, I am not in the neighborhood (Netherlands), but e-mail me if youL cannot find someone to send you a VAX distribution (software product libraryI and os). I have some versions on the shelf and am willing to give one foro free.   E Now if someone else would be so kind to give or lend me an Alpha SPL?nH I am in need of the DCPS package for OpenVMS/Alpha. I do have a hobbyist OpenVMS license ofcourse.    Regards, Maarten     > "Tux Wonder-Dog" <wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message. news:ltnWb.23475$ws.2919084@news02.tsnz.net...I > I've finally got my hobbyist OpenVMS license; someone mentioned quite a I > while back on this newsgroup that all I needed to do was say where I amt andaJ > ask if there was anyone nearby ready to loan me the use of their cdroms. >hL > Well, I'm in St Albans, Christchurch, New Zealand; I've got at least threeJ > freely-redistributable Vax emulators (SIMH, TS10, and evax) for my Linux: > machine - all I need is a helping hand and the software. >a8 > Anyone in the neighbourhood ready and willing to help? >a > Wesley Parisho > -- gI > "Good, late in to more rewarding well."  "Well, you tonight.  And I was J > lookintelligent woman of Ming home.  I trust you with a tender silence." I(E > get a word into my hands, a different and unbelike, probably - 'she ? > fortunate fat woman', wrong word.  I think to me, I justupid.bI > Let not emacs meta-X dissociate-press write your romantic dialogs...!!!e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:58:34 -0600-@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>A Subject: Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD AthlonA6 Message-ID: <402937EA.B8534070@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   rob kas wrote: > 1 > "Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> wrote in message>0 > news:4027d2e5$0$28923$626a14ce@news.free.fr...H > > There is a paper today in 01 Informatique Hebdo, Nr 1 in IT Press in> > > France, focusing on the "secrets HP plans for the future". > >hD > > The paper sez that HP may cancel all developments on iA64 and go > > AMD/Athlon 64. > >m > > D. > >  > 8 >     Surely you know the answer to this is "Codswallop"  / Well, that "remains" to be seen - pun intended.t   -- o David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:01:18 -0600m@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>A Subject: Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD Athlonk6 Message-ID: <4029388E.F8DAE7B6@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Didier Morandi wrote:n > N > There is a paper today in 01 Informatique Hebdo, Nr 1 in IT Press in France,4 > focusing on the "secrets HP plans for the future". > Q > The paper sez that HP may cancel all developments on iA64 and go AMD/Athlon 64.   H Well, I can't say as I'm surprised, but I'd actually rather see IA64 andF AMD64 development proceed in parallel once the AMD64 team (if there is  indeed such a thing) catches up.   -- r David J. Dachteram dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/w   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:59:54 -0500o* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>A Subject: Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD Athlon(2 Message-ID: <m72dnS2jbfO_pbTdRVn-jw@metrocast.net>  / "Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> wrote in messagef. news:4028d705$0$28127$636a15ce@news.free.fr...& > The Intel article, may be found here( http://www.01net.com/article/231407.html  G Thanks.  And thanks to babelfish for the translation:  my French is toohG rusty to do the article justice, and I wouldn't have wanted to miss then- reference to Itanic as a commercial failure..c  B I also enjoyed the reference to 'Opteron waiters' (i.e., servers).   - bill   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:42:48 +0000 (UTC)v6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)A Subject: Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD Athlonk0 Message-ID: <newscache$atyvsh$t7i$1@news.sil.at>  h In article <d7791aa1.0402091609.4837ac49@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:_ >Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote in message news:<4027d2e5$0$28923$626a14ce@news.free.fr>....P >> There is a paper today in 01 Informatique Hebdo, Nr 1 in IT Press in France, 5 >> focusing on the "secrets HP plans for the future".e >> hR >> The paper sez that HP may cancel all developments on iA64 and go AMD/Athlon 64. > ; >then that means they are going to port OpenVMS and unix tol( >it, or, cease to exist as a company ...  O Exactly. Or in other words, every company fighting against its VMS will die ;-)g    K OTOH, the problem with the article is, it is neither new, nor already true.o   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERm% Network and OpenVMS system specialistg E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:46:34 GMTa% From: "DBR" <ruppnospam@starband.net>nA Subject: Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD Athlon>> Message-ID: <AbdWb.25845$Xf6.2522024062@twister2.starband.net>  i At my request, our office in Paris translated and summarized the article for me. Here are the highlights:    --Douglas Rupp Ada Core Technologies, Inc.d  /  > > What I found says among other things that:   > >K  > >   - HP decided to create a new server based on Opteron (project code :bI  > >     Experiment) because the Itanium market does not seem to take off   > >     as early as expectedw  > >6  > >   - OpenVMS will be certified on IA64 this summer  > >  > >N  > >   - HP has put together himself the famous "double-core itanium" (not tooK  > >     sure of the translation) because Intel won't have it ready in time   > >H  > > So it seems that HP is putting its eggs in different baskets indeed:  > > but definitely not canceling all development on IA64.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:08:34 +0000 (UTC)_P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)' Subject: Re: HTTP server for OpenVMS???b$ Message-ID: <c0bo9i$osd$5@online.de>  D In article <Xns948B955853876pdandenaultssd5nrlna@132.250.1.121>, Pat3 Dandenault <pdandenault@ssd5.nrl.navy.mil> writes: d  C > Can anyone recommend a small/secure/free HTTP server for OpenVMS?  > L > It doesn't have to have many bells and whistles.. in fact, we simply want H > to append a log file to index.html so we can check the status of some  > processing from our desks.  7 http://kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu/www/doc/serverinfo.htmlh   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:02:00 GMTl& From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>Y Subject: Re: Intel and Microsoft provide higher 32-bit applications performance on Itaniu-. Message-ID: <YMaWb.98$wz5.83@news.cpqcorp.net>  P Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: > Rick Jones wrote:DF >> I believe your figure for Itanium applications is out of date.  TheI >> number as of January 2004 is 1797 and counting based on what I've been0( >> told/given after asking around a bit.B > You appear to be  talking about IVS' who are commited to doing aB > port and you appear to have added the apps for all the platforms  B I received the slide deck from which I was quoting from the HP ISVF folks, and was labeled as those being apps from Jan 2004.  I was under; the impression the question was number of IPF applications.n  B BTW, how many of those 12000 "SPARC" applications are Solaris 8 or earlier rather than Solaris 9?  
 rick jones -- dH Wisdom Teeth are impacted, people are affected by the effects of events.F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:17:46 +0000nO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>nY Subject: Re: Intel and Microsoft provide higher 32-bit applications performance on Itaniup0 Message-ID: <c0dh2q$286$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rick Jones wrote:lR > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >>Rick Jones wrote:  >>F >>>I believe your figure for Itanium applications is out of date.  TheI >>>number as of January 2004 is 1797 and counting based on what I've been ( >>>told/given after asking around a bit. >>B >>You appear to be  talking about IVS' who are commited to doing aB >>port and you appear to have added the apps for all the platforms >  > D > I received the slide deck from which I was quoting from the HP ISVH > folks, and was labeled as those being apps from Jan 2004.  I was under= > the impression the question was number of IPF applications.e > D > BTW, how many of those 12000 "SPARC" applications are Solaris 8 or  > earlier rather than Solaris 9? >   1 Solaris 8 with a large % supported for Solaris 9.t  < But its not the same as HP-UX/AIX etc because Sun provides a9 binary compatibility guarantee to our ISV's, run your appb= in our test harness, if it passes we guarantee to fix Solarisb= is a future version breaks your app. A number of IVS's that In> work with have qualified with Solaris 8 plus the guarantee and> don't intend to specifically qualify with 9 because they don't need to.    3 Currently all our SPARC platforms support both OS'sM   Regardse Andrew Harrisono   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:56:07 +00009O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! 0 Message-ID: <c0djao$326$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote: > In article <c0dg7u$1uk$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  >>Keith Parris wrote:t >>[ >>>Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<bvbham$ald$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>...t >>>g >>>oS >>>>What many of us have been predicting for the last couple of years now is going ,5 >>>>to be a reality. Intel will have 64bit x86 cpu's.  >>>  >>>sE >>>A lot of folks are making a very big assumption here: that Intel's 4 >>>64-bit extensions would be compatible with AMD's. >>>t >>; >>No we arn't Microsoft don't want to do another 64bit porta >> >  > ; > 	Microsoft may not have to.  You may be looking at a port-? > 	that is fully funded by Intel.  Intel throwing a few hundred G > 	million and a few thousand bodies at the port.  After all, if Win64 dC > 	is going to take flight for x86-64 who is going to do the heavy . > 	lifting?  >   6 That will be amusing, Intel producing a CPU that won't4 be compatible with the "industry standard" 64bit x86
 processor.  5 Rather like the position AMD would have been had theyi4 produced an x86 clone that wan't entirely compatible2 with the "industry standard" x86 processor vendor.  2 You seem to have missed the seismic shift that has0 happened in the CPU market thanks to those wacky/ guys from HP and their VLIW processor. It isn'te- AMD who needs to be compatible with Intel its + Intel that needs to be compatible with AMD.i   Regardso Andrew Harrison@ > @ >>>We'll know more once the Intel Developer's Forum is underway. >  > $ > 	Yep.  More than hints from there. > 	 > 				Robt >    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Feb 2004 10:34:39 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)wC Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!S3 Message-ID: <IRNhbPGWHoXd@eisner.encompasserve.org>M   In article <c0djao$326$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote: >> In article <c0dg7u$1uk$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  >> ' >>>Keith Parris wrote: >>> \ >>>>Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<bvbham$ald$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>... >>>> >>>>T >>>>>What many of us have been predicting for the last couple of years now is going 6 >>>>>to be a reality. Intel will have 64bit x86 cpu's. >>>> >>>>F >>>>A lot of folks are making a very big assumption here: that Intel's5 >>>>64-bit extensions would be compatible with AMD's.e >>>> >>>a< >>>No we arn't Microsoft don't want to do another 64bit port >>>n >> @ >> -< >> 	Microsoft may not have to.  You may be looking at a port@ >> 	that is fully funded by Intel.  Intel throwing a few hundredH >> 	million and a few thousand bodies at the port.  After all, if Win64 D >> 	is going to take flight for x86-64 who is going to do the heavy  >> 	lifting? >> n > 8 > That will be amusing, Intel producing a CPU that won't6 > be compatible with the "industry standard" 64bit x86 > processor.  : 	Last I checked, AMD has done nothing industry standard of7 	their own accord.  They have copied industry standard.l  ; 	Similarly, SPARC sells in much larger volumes than Opterons& 	and has never been industry standard.  ? 	Industry Standard means it is an Intel part - pure and simple.)> 	Intel had more profit last quarter than AMD had revenue in 2 4 	quarters.  They are in totally different ballparks.   				Roba   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Feb 2004 16:51:13 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!d: Message-ID: <c0dmi1$16hoph$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  3 In article <GpaCM8kcy2Oe@eisner.encompasserve.org>,T. 	young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: > In article <c0dg7u$1uk$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >> Keith Parris wrote:\ >>> Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<bvbham$ald$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>... >>> S >>>>What many of us have been predicting for the last couple of years now is going D5 >>>>to be a reality. Intel will have 64bit x86 cpu's.s >>>  >>> F >>> A lot of folks are making a very big assumption here: that Intel's5 >>> 64-bit extensions would be compatible with AMD's.E >>>  >> e< >> No we arn't Microsoft don't want to do another 64bit port >> M > ; > 	Microsoft may not have to.  You may be looking at a portg? > 	that is fully funded by Intel.  Intel throwing a few hundred G > 	million and a few thousand bodies at the port.  After all, if Win64 iC > 	is going to take flight for x86-64 who is going to do the heavy   > 	lifting?i   Rob,C    Go back and read the original article again.  MS didn't say they-@ wouldn't do another 64bit port.  They said they will not supportC another 64bit platform.  Even if Intel foots the bill for doing theHA port what good is it if MS won't support it?  Kind of sounds like C Alpha NT all over again.  There is NT (and I understand even Win2K)3D for Alpha, but without support they will never go anywhere.  So what? of this supposed new 64bit architecture if MS won't support it?bB Face it, either Intel clones AMD's design or they end out with yet another niche chip.y   bill   -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:24:35 +0000aO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>-C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!@0 Message-ID: <c0ds14$644$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote: > In article <c0djao$326$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  >>Rob Young wrote: >> >>>In article <c0dg7u$1uk$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:S >>>i >>>. >>>>Keith Parris wrote:t >>>> >>>>] >>>>>Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<bvbham$ald$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>...l >>>>>i >>>>>e >>>>>oU >>>>>>What many of us have been predicting for the last couple of years now is going a7 >>>>>>to be a reality. Intel will have 64bit x86 cpu's.H >>>>>- >>>>>CG >>>>>A lot of folks are making a very big assumption here: that Intel'sn6 >>>>>64-bit extensions would be compatible with AMD's. >>>>>  >>>>= >>>>No we arn't Microsoft don't want to do another 64bit porta >>>> >>>t >>> < >>>	Microsoft may not have to.  You may be looking at a port@ >>>	that is fully funded by Intel.  Intel throwing a few hundredH >>>	million and a few thousand bodies at the port.  After all, if Win64 D >>>	is going to take flight for x86-64 who is going to do the heavy  >>>	lifting? >>>  >>8 >>That will be amusing, Intel producing a CPU that won't6 >>be compatible with the "industry standard" 64bit x86 >>processor. >  > < > 	Last I checked, AMD has done nothing industry standard of9 > 	their own accord.  They have copied industry standard.  > = > 	Similarly, SPARC sells in much larger volumes than Opteron ( > 	and has never been industry standard. > A > 	Industry Standard means it is an Intel part - pure and simple.i@ > 	Intel had more profit last quarter than AMD had revenue in 2 6 > 	quarters.  They are in totally different ballparks. > 	 > 				Robt > < Incedentally Sun just announced the V20z 2 way Opteron based: box and a Dell with the same config but using 3.2 Ghz Xeon' is now 1 K more expensive than the Sun.h  7 I guess another plank in your Opteron Servers will onlya6 be cheaper than Dells if you buy them from mom and pop# shops argument has just splintered.o   Regardsd Andrew Harrisond   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Feb 2004 08:34:14 -0800' From: jbecker@ui.urban.org (Jim Becker)s  Subject: Re: Moderate this group= Message-ID: <c113b52c.0402110834.6a2ac63c@posting.google.com>e  _ David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<4020F222.1080908@bigpond.com>...i > Richard B. Gilbert espoused:L > > If the nutcase were a normal person, he probably would tire of it.  I'd  > > say he's clearly obsessed! > > K > > I too would vote for going moderated.  It's not just this nutcase that sL > > has led me in this direction.  There is an incredible amount of "noise" L > > here.  I could cite what has to be one of the longest running trolls on H > > record and the people who keep responding to him, the "64 bit 8086" H > > stuff, the people who think they could manage DEC, Compaq and/or HP F > > better than the people actually being paid to do it and on and on. > > E > > I read this group, when I have  time, for VMS related material.  h3 > > Moderation would/should lose most of the noise.D > H > Then of course for technical discussions and questions there is always: > the itrc forums -- things are much more civilized there. > 
 > Regards, > Dave.e  E The Encompass VMS-SIG mailing list is currently unmoderated, but it'sw, also spam-free and the noise levels are low.  : See: http://listserv.encompassus.org/archives/vms-sig.html   Features include:.% - searchable archive of past messages 2 - usable via web interface and/or e-mail interface - virus protection (F-Secure)dC - spam protection (by cooperating in a community of LISTSERV sites)e: - high-speed, reliable e-mail delivery courtesy of OpenVMS   --
 Jim Becker+ The Urban Institute (http://www.urban.org/)D' Encompass (http://www.encompassus.org/)o. ESILUG (http://encompasserve.org/lugs/esilug/)   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2004 23:13:38 -08007 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)- Subject: Re: OpenVMS Feelings1= Message-ID: <8a646952.0402102313.205bbe50@posting.google.com>n  s fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) wrote in message news:<f30679fb.0402101605.77657053@posting.google.com>...  > Hi Peopleo > : > How do you feel in your companies working with OpenVMS ? > ? > Abandoned, alone, no integrated, nobody cares about your job, ? > no body listens you, your are forgotten in the meetings, yournB > system works but its not important for the IT staff -  just for2 > the end-users, feeling at the end-of-career, ... > # > Just to know if I am not alone !   > 	 > Regardsr >  > FC   Dear Fabio Cardoso:-  D If you think you have got it bad. Just think of the IBM mainframers.F There only hope is for their mainframes to become a large file server!   Keep the chin up!0   Regards, Daryl Jonesg   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Feb 2004 08:26:10 -0800& From: denny_rich@ameritech.net (Denny) Subject: Re: OpenVMS Feelingsm< Message-ID: <2a9d9498.0402110826.e202f33@posting.google.com>   fabio, two words:  tenho saudade.   dennyl  s fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) wrote in message news:<f30679fb.0402101605.77657053@posting.google.com>...a > Hi Peoplet > : > How do you feel in your companies working with OpenVMS ? > ? > Abandoned, alone, no integrated, nobody cares about your job,n? > no body listens you, your are forgotten in the meetings, your>B > system works but its not important for the IT staff -  just for2 > the end-users, feeling at the end-of-career, ... > # > Just to know if I am not alone !   > 	 > Regardse >  > FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:17:30 +0000DO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>aT Subject: Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... ......0 Message-ID: <c0dh2b$286$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Wayne Sewell wrote:s@ >>>IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T READ IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!$ >>>IT PROMOTES THE MERITS OF VMS ... >  >  > I > I'm all for that.  It's the sneering at solaris that's the problem.  If O > andy-boy was not infesting this newgroup, that would not be an issue.  But he P > is, so slams at sun just cause another round of useless traffic where the same% > bullshit is repeated over and over.: >  >   6 Except that sadly it isn't BS at least not on my part.   Regards< Andrew HarrisonI > < >>>OBVIOUSLY, YOU ARE A TROLL ... WHY AREN'T YOU OUT BASHING5 >>>KEN AND KEITH WHEN THEY PROMOTE IT????????????????  >  > M > Because their posts are not specifically directed at andy-boy, deliberatelye* > intended to provoke a tiresome response. >  >  >>>TROLL!!!!!!!!!! z >> > ) > You're calling somebody *else* a troll?hQ > ===============================================================================sP > Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com= > http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   eQ > ===============================================================================.D > Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?". > 	Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:52:40 -06006@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>Q Subject: Re: OT: Another American arrested in Brazil after making obscene gesture 6 Message-ID: <40293688.21073A17@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: >  > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message news:<40258B38.FE4310C8@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>... > > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > > >nE > > > What is happening with the americans ? I allways had admirationx > > > for the American minds...f > >tE > > Say, "freedom of expression". Some Americans just assume, perhaps.L > > incorrectly, that their homeland rights extend to the rest of the world. > H > Freedom of speech, not expression. Freedom of speech protects opinion, > not vulgarity.  D The supreme court has repeatedly disagreed with your interpretation.  9 > If you can't figure out a way to "express" your opiniono9 > without vulgarity, then you've got far bigger problems.s  F Be that as it may, the courts have repeatedly disagreed with those whoD have sought to suppress vulgarity. Obscenity is the "bug-a-boo", not
 vulgarity.  F > Remember, not all forms of speech are protected. You are not allowed= > to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater when there is no fire.e  @ Well, under freedom of speech, yes it is allowed. However, otherF regulations may impose restrictions even where constitutional freedoms have been upheld.l   -- > David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsw http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho//   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Feb 2004 04:29:07 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)Q Subject: Re: OT: Another American arrested in Brazil after making obscene gesture < Message-ID: <f30679fb.0402110429.f2aa360@posting.google.com>  U Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message news:<4029E038.85C40906@aaa.com>...t > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: >  > > Look at what happenedS0 > > to Putin's opposition. He was "disappeared". > 9 > Actualy, to be true, he took off on a short holliday on48 > his own will, and just shut of his cellular phone. And7 > hence "disappeared". When he found out yesterday whatt7 > was going on, he just put in on again and was back one > the court... >  > Jan-Erik.0  , I will do that in July in Catalunya/Spain !  Disapear.... for one month ! -& May be I will return back to Brazil to( work with Solaris or Windows 2000 ! ! !    Fabio    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Feb 2004 06:25:31 -0800* From: denny.rich@swagelok.com (Denny Rich)J Subject: Re: page- and swap-files, autogen, modparams.dat, file-naming etc< Message-ID: <d28306e.0402110625.12b7dc94@posting.google.com>  B AUTOGEN doesn't really care about the pagefile names.  Remove themD from modparams.dat. YOu could name them "dog.hair", or "cat.fur", or3 "vmem_a.page" or "pagefile_1.sys" or anything else.r  F Assuming you want more then 1, I show an "_x" naming convention to tryF to keep things simple. ".sys" usually indicates a system versus a userF file. pagefile_1 indicates its function, and implies there may be more	 than one.   F Then use SYSGEN to create the files you want where you want them. Most@ systems do well with one large or maybe 2 medium sized files. ifA paging is heavy, you can spread them around on more than one diskAE (just don't make things too complicated. This was more important withr old, slow, RA devices.)o     $ mcr sysgen>    SYSGEN>  CREATE PAGE_ONE:[NODE1]PAGEFILE_1.SYS /SIZE=200000  E then edit Sys$startup:sypagswpfiles.com: The file names and locationslA you use here *must* match what you created in sysgen (above). addnB lines to mount any disk(s) that will hold page files. for example:  @   $  mount/system/noassist/NOREBUI $1$dua1710: page_one page_one  0   add a line to "load" each of the pagefiles....;   $  mcr sysgen install page_one:[node1]pagefile_1.sys/pages   Then reboot the system.e  F All AUTOGEN cares about is the *total* pagefile space it finds when itA runs (on the running system).  IT then guesses at what you shouldu5 have, and either says its ok, or recommends a change.e  E Also, the boot process *assumes* it knows where there is at least onebE page file. you don't have to have this one; but IF you DON'T HAVE IT, 5 you should have some (one or more) files installed bys# sypagswpfiles.com (see note above).   E after about a week of normal operation, rerun AUTOGEN and see what itA says about paging space.  	 good luck5   dennyl  | helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote in message news:<c0bq8v$8q2$1@online.de>...H > The System Manager's Manual says to refer to the primary page and swapE > files as PAGEFILE1 in modparams.dat.  I thus assumed that the firstHH > non-primary file would answer to "2" etc, so I used that in modparams.J > dat.  Didn't work---so I explicitly gave it a name.  Didn't work.  So I < > explicitly gave a name to the primary files.  Didn't work. > G > Here's what things look like now.  Can someone explain the confusion?i > Q > ===============================================================================W > B >               System Memory Resources on 11-FEB-2004 00:22:48.17 > N > Swap File Usage (8KB pages):                   Index        Free        Size- >   DISK$ALPHASYS_3:[SYS0.SYSEXE]SWAPFILE.SYS N >                                                    1        2480        3120+ >   DISK$SWAPPAGE_3:[GLADIA]SWAPFILE2.SYS;1 N >                                                    2        6248        6248 > N >   Total size of all swap files:                                         9368 > N > Paging File Usage (8KB pages):                 Index        Free        Size+ >   DISK$SWAPPAGE_3:[GLADIA]PAGEFILE2.SYS;1eN >                                                  253       17643       19928- >   DISK$ALPHASYS_3:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE.SYSeN >                                                  254        1588        3816 > N >   Total size of all paging files:                                      23744N >   Total committed paging file usage:                                    8243 > Q > ===============================================================================o > @ > PAGEFILE1_NAME="SYS$SYSTEM:PAGEFILE.SYS" ! why do I need this? > MIN_PAGEFILE1_SIZE=200000 8 > PAGEFILE2_NAME="DISK$SWAPPAGE_3:[GLADIA]PAGEFILE2.SYS" > PAGEFILE2_SIZE=400000hH > SWAPFILE1_NAME="SYS$SYSTEM:SWAPFILE.SYS" ! maybe not needed; see above > MIN_SWAPFILE1_SIZE=500008 > SWAPFILE2_NAME="DISK$SWAPPAGE_3:[GLADIA]SWAPFILE2.SYS" > SWAPFILE2_SIZE=100000s > Q > ===============================================================================t > 6 > AUTOGEN Parameter Calculation Report on node: GLADIA= >   This information was generated at 10-FEB-2004 00:06:33.30nM >   AUTOGEN was run from SAVPARAMS to SETPARAMS - default execution specifiedd >  > ! > Processing Parameter Data files'! > -------------------------------- > 5 > Including parameters from: SYS$SYSTEM:MODPARAMS.DATi > ; > The following problems were detected within MODPARAMS.DATo3 >    These problems should be reviewed immediately.j > ; > ** WARNING ** - Duplicate value for PAGEFILE1_NAME found.eI > 	This overrides preceding requirements for this parameter in PARAMS.DATgL > 	Please review the parameter setting and if possible use MIN, MAX, or ADD. > ; > ** WARNING ** - Duplicate value for PAGEFILE2_NAME found.mI > 	This overrides preceding requirements for this parameter in PARAMS.DATpL > 	Please review the parameter setting and if possible use MIN, MAX, or ADD. > ; > ** WARNING ** - Duplicate value for SWAPFILE2_NAME found.nI > 	This overrides preceding requirements for this parameter in PARAMS.DATeL > 	Please review the parameter setting and if possible use MIN, MAX, or ADD. >  >     Page file calculations:K > S >         PAGEFILE1_SIZE information (for DISK$SWAPPAGE_3:[GLADIA]PAGEFILE2.SYS;1):s > 	Feedback information./ > 	   Old value was 318900, New value is 200000o, > 	   Maximum observed usage (blocks): 38224D > 	Override Information - parameter calculation has been overridden.? > 	   The calculated value was 57300.  The new value is 200000.k; > 	   PAGEFILE1_SIZE is not allowed to be less than 200000.p; > 	   PAGEFILE1_SIZE will be modified to hold 200000 blocksa > C >         PAGEFILE2_SIZE information (for SYS$SYSTEM:PAGEFILE.SYS):r > 	Feedback information.. > 	   Old value was 61100, New value is 400000, > 	   Maximum observed usage (blocks): 38608D > 	Override Information - parameter calculation has been overridden.? > 	   The calculated value was 57900.  The new value is 400000.eD > 	   PAGEFILE2_SIZE has been set to the hard-coded value of 400000.; > 	   PAGEFILE2_SIZE will be modified to hold 400000 blocks  > K > ** Note **  A new, smaller PAGE file cannot be created on DISK$SWAPPAGE_3S> > this would leave insufficient space.  The existing file will > unchanged at this time.n > H > 	** Note **  Free space on DISK$SWAPPAGE_3 is insufficient to create a/ > 		PAGE file of 200000 blocks.   The file willo# > 		continue to hold 318911 blocks.n > Q > ===============================================================================s > J > While true that there is insufficient space to create a smaller file, itF > shouldn't even be trying to.  On DISK$SWAPPAGE_3 I want to have the H > secondary page and swap files with FIXED SIZES.  I originally created K > them with the desired sizes, but due to this confusion they accidentally cJ > got downsized.  I want to call these files (in modparams.dat) PAGEFILE2 J > and SWAPFILE1, with the ones in SYS$SYSTEM referred to by PAGEFILE1 and 3 > SWAPFILE1 (as the manual says).  What's going on?n > E > Also, what is the relationship between the sizes specified in SHOW .0 > MEMORY/FILES and the actual size of the files: >   > Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE] >  > PAGEFILE.SYS;6         61100 > SWAPFILE.SYS;3         50000 > $ > Directory DISK$SWAPPAGE_3:[GLADIA] >  > PAGEFILE2.SYS;1       318911 > SWAPFILE2.SYS;1       100000 > K > Also: the above was produced with two separate DIR commands.  What about l > this:5 > R > $ dir/siz sys$system:pagefil*,swapfil*,disk$swappage_3:[gladia]pagefil*,swapfil* >   > Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE] >  > PAGEFILE.SYS;6         61100 > SWAPFILE.SYS;3         50000 > " > Total of 2 files, 111100 blocks. > $ > Directory DISK$SWAPPAGE_3:[GLADIA] >  > PAGEFILE2.SYS;1       318911 > PAGEFILE2.SYS;1       318911 > SWAPFILE2.SYS;1       100000 > SWAPFILE2.SYS;1       100000 > " > Total of 4 files, 837822 blocks. > 7 > Grand total of 2 directories, 6 files, 948922 blocks.b > G > I can understand doubled names in search lists etc, but they are now tJ > showing up in DISK$SWAPPAGE_3:[GLADIA] which is just a normal directory! > J > Final point: AUTOGEN writes AGEN$PARAMS.REPORT OK, but the following to 
 > SYS$OUTPUT:  > 0 >                 remain unchanged at this time.H > %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling >  \SYS$OUTPUT\rK > %AUTOGEN-I-ERROR, TESTFILES phase was aborted due to an unexpected error.a > %SYSTEM-F-ABORT, abort > D > Looks like there is a DCL error when TESTFILES is invoked.  No, I  > haven't edited it: > ( > $ dir sys$update:autogen.com/dat=(c,m) >  > Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSUPD]O > G > AUTOGEN.COM;1        18-JUL-2002 17:47:08.76  18-JUL-2002 17:47:24.66w >  > Total of 1 file. > P > ============================================================================== > ? > To summarise: I want to have secondary page and swap files onHI > DISK$SWAPPAGE_3 and want to refer to them as PAGEFILE2 and SWAPFILE2 invH > MODPARAMS.DAT (and thus have given them consistent file names) and, IF@ > NECESSARY, to the primary files in SYS$SYSTEM as PAGEFILE1 and> > SWAPFILE1, as the manual recommends.  What am I doing wrong?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:46:16 GMTn& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> Subject: Pinging Brian0 Message-ID: <IicWb.111$lN5.108@news.cpqcorp.net>  I Brian, you sent me a macro question, but didn't setup your system to let  B me reply to your email.  Let me in and I can answer your question.   xyzzyD   -- 3 John ReaganN' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leaderw Hewlett-Packard Companyp   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:19:46 +0100g* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net># Subject: Re: PSION, another Digitall0 Message-ID: <402A01C2.1788E9AF@sture.homeip.net>   Chris Casey wrote: > 9 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messagee% > news:4028B64C.F68F3D53@istop.com...D@ > > Sadly, I see so many similarities between PSION and Digital. > >.M > > PSION is yet another exmaple of a company that had an establihed, leadingpI > > product line, and allowed itself to wither away even thought it had a-
 > superiorA > > product, simply because the competitors HAD BETTER MARKETING.@ > >c > >eE > > Seems that everytime I choose a product because it is technically  > superior,mM > > the owner disagrees with me and works hard to get rid of that product. It - > > happened with Digital/VMS and with PSION.r >  > Jeff,h >   7 Err, it's not Jeff. IIRC JF is short for Jean Francois.e  N > I have to agree with you on this one. When my Psion 5MX finally dies I don'tF > know what I will do. None of the Windows or palm based machines come@ > anywhere near to the functionality of this 5 year old product.  B Hardware quality control is what got me on the Psions. My Series 3F lasted for several years, but the advertised power adaptor was as rareD as rocking horse sh*t. The serial and parellel cables cost a fortune too.  E Seeking more memory, I upgraded to the 3a, which only lasted about 18nE months.  Next try a Series 5. Oh dear, the flash card was a different8; type, so I had to enter my address book etc all over again.)  E When that packed up after only 6 weeks, I lost interest in what could$ have been a great product.   -- >
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:02:11 -0500s" From: "Nobody" <nobody@nobody.org> Subject: Re: Respond Mezei9 Message-ID: <iklWb.5374$sO4.801006@news20.bellglobal.com>M   Agreed,. Fucken nut case.    ) "None" <none@nospam.org> wrote in messagel> news:a5AVb.16687$F23.10047@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net.... > You use just as many alias handles yourself. >l; > You need serious psycho-therapy.  As quickly as possible!n >h > --
 > ***/***/***r > When life gives you lemons > Skullfuck everyone in sight! > http://wonderofitall.com/e >@
 > ***/***/*** < > "Porridge Rope" <doissueer@oposfm344.com> wrote in message3 > news:WzzVb.2431$lK.70856@news20.bellglobal.com...u >1 >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:24:40 -0500H* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>" Subject: Re: Rumours of (CPU) Wars2 Message-ID: <7O6dndj2r4ptoLTdRVn-jQ@metrocast.net>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0402101103.6ab939aa@posting.google.com...TK > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew No.Harrison No@nospamn.sun.com> = wrote in message news:<bvb1b6$mnq$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...o+ > > x86-64 is a full 64bit architecture, ite< > > currently has a physical address space of 40 bits enough> > > to address 1 TB or RAM. Itanium has a 50 bit address space> > > which if you are using the "only" 40 bits argument against; > > Opteron as a way of claiming that it isn't a 64 bit CPUt) > > also means that Itanium isn't either.d >n. > Virtual address space, Andrew, not physical. >t > According to AMD's website atd >>L http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_8826_8805,0 0.html- > Opteron has a 48-bit virtual address space.U  F What part of the fact that that is a current-implementation limitationL rather than an architectural limitation do you find difficult to understand,H Keith?  After all, Alpha implementations haven't always supported a fullF 64-bit virtual address space, either (I don't even know if the currentK implementations do, but my early Alpha Architecture Handbook specifies thatdB the minimum virtual address space size supported by any conformingG implementation is 43 bits):  did/does that mean that Alpha wasn't/isn'tm really a 64-bit architecture?.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Feb 2004 10:18:53 -0800* From: denny.rich@swagelok.com (Denny Rich) Subject: VMS and Unicode; Message-ID: <d28306e.0402111018.7c89d68@posting.google.com>o  F We are expecting to be receiving EDI messages coded in Unicode. We run9 multiple ES45s in a homogeneous cluster, now on VMS7.3-1.l  D As I understand the Unicode issue, it means that any given characterE may consist of a byte stream of from 1 to many bytes. I don't know ifT$ the byte count is fixed or variable.  @ Using this bytestream, it is possible to encode most symbols and# characters in most major languages.a  = We need to map some of those characters to the ASCII that oura  applications know how to handle.  E So, there will be some bit pattern that identifies the "euro currencyh? character" (I picked this because its probably not in the ASCII4F character set). When this is encountered, our ASCII-based software canE make some internal 'notation' that the currency to follow is in Euros  rather than in yen or pesos.  B Similar process for the little "degree mark" (small raised circle)D that is  a common part of european street addresses, as well as partE of temperature specifications. Our application could note that we areu= talking about "degrees", or a floor in a particular building.   C We envision feeding this Unicode stream to VMS, where there will besE some "transformation" done that will make Unicode understandable to ad@ VMS application. at least, the transformation will translate the? Unicode into some representation meaningful to our application.s  F One way to do this, would be to build a "transform program" that has aC big lookup table in it and provides Unicode-to-ASCII conversion fori= characters of interest and based partly on the context of thesF character within the message.  This could be home-grown or commercial.D You could even do this in hardware, using a couple of big EPROMS for the translation. Very fast.i  ? I took a cursory look at the VMS doc CD but didn't come up withf anything startling.e   So, questions:  B     Have I missed something in the Doc set? (is this easier than I think?)e-     How have others addressed this problem?  rA     Is there a commercial product for making this transformation?w  F Surely, someone has run into this sort of applicaiton before now. What did you do?i   Thanks,    Denny  VMS System Manager   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2004 13:31:02 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?t3 Message-ID: <u0wc1qb6JwwX@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  j In article <d28Wb.68$Oj5.11@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes: > M > On IPF we do not use console firmware to read/write the port, and interceptr, > ^P ourselves (right now it enters xDelta). >       Oh, I like that!i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:47:06 +00000( From: John Travell <john@travell.uk.net>% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?c: Message-ID: <c0d88h$150b16$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>   Tom Linden wrote:gD > I still maintain that if you can make a Pentium spin at 4 GHz thenD > you could do at least the same for VAX (which unlike Pentium has aG > symmetric, orthogonal instruction set)  To match the performance withrD > an Alpha you would probably need a clock of 8GHz or more.  I think > this horse must now be dead. > F > I have seen numbers in the past of ~400K VMS systems worldwide.  How  > many of those are VAXen today? > I Sorry for the delay from the original, I just caught up with this thread k7   after a M$ induced loss of access to the newsgroup...>  	 Tom said:s   > To match the performance with<  > an Alpha you would probably need a clock of 8GHz or more.  F If Alpha were a single issue machine this might be true, but it isn't.H Alpha retires up-to 4 instructions per cycle. IF each Alpha instruction I did as much work as an x86 instruction, a 1Ghz Alpha would be comparable 4I to a 4Ghz x86. Since the average amount of work done per instruction and  E the average number of instructions retired per cycle is less than an t? optimal match, in reality a 1Ghz Alpha cannot match a 4Ghz x86..G However, a 1Ghz Alpha is massively faster than a 1Ghz x86. How much of 8I this is memory bandwidth or cache or whatever is speculation, especially o0 with the abject lack of real current benchmarks.  G In the world of "what if's", I would love to see benchmark comparisons fF of a 2Ghz ev7 based workstation against a collection of Intel powered L boxes. The results could be interesting.... Sad that we will never see them.     John Travell* Independent VMS and Alpha Support analyst. john- at - jomatech - dot - com  http://www.jomatech.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:12:29 -08001# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>_% Subject: RE: Why was VAX abandonned ?c9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICEOCCMAA.tom@kednos.com>!     -----Original Message-----1   From: John Travell [mailto:john@travell.uk.net]1,   Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 4:47 AM   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms'   Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?n       Tom Linden wrote:cF   > I still maintain that if you can make a Pentium spin at 4 GHz thenF   > you could do at least the same for VAX (which unlike Pentium has aI   > symmetric, orthogonal instruction set)  To match the performance with1F   > an Alpha you would probably need a clock of 8GHz or more.  I think    > this horse must now be dead.   >sH   > I have seen numbers in the past of ~400K VMS systems worldwide.  How"   > many of those are VAXen today?   > J   Sorry for the delay from the original, I just caught up with this thread9     after a M$ induced loss of access to the newsgroup...n     Tom said:n"    > To match the performance with>    > an Alpha you would probably need a clock of 8GHz or more.  H   If Alpha were a single issue machine this might be true, but it isn't.I   Alpha retires up-to 4 instructions per cycle. IF each Alpha instructiontJ   did as much work as an x86 instruction, a 1Ghz Alpha would be comparableJ   to a 4Ghz x86. Since the average amount of work done per instruction andF   the average number of instructions retired per cycle is less than anA   optimal match, in reality a 1Ghz Alpha cannot match a 4Ghz x86.hH   However, a 1Ghz Alpha is massively faster than a 1Ghz x86. How much ofJ   this is memory bandwidth or cache or whatever is speculation, especially2   with the abject lack of real current benchmarks.  L I appreciate the point; however, that is not an apples to apples comparison.H Speaking of work per cycle, because of the weaker instruction set on the alpha,K it takes perhaps 2-3 cycles to produce the same result as a single cycle onn the D VAX, on the average. Now (since we are using the subjunctive) if you contemplatedF a multiple issue VAX architecture you could then compare them.  So you shouldL "normalize" the comparison by considering a single issue alpha.  The CDC6000J series had multiple issue 40 years ago.  Because of data dependency, there arerG practical limitations to what may be achieved by multiple issue anyway.i  E Moreover, we were discussing VAX not x86, which was only chosen as anb example.? that it were technically possible to make the VAX spin as fast.o    H   In the world of "what if's", I would love to see benchmark comparisonsG   of a 2Ghz ev7 based workstation against a collection of Intel powerede>   boxes. The results could be interesting.... Sad that we will   never see them.e       John Travell,   Independent VMS and Alpha Support analyst.!   john- at - jomatech - dot - como   http://www.jomatech.com/     ---t(   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B   Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004   ---s& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:37:34 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? - Message-ID: <87r7x17hkx.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  9 jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) writes:r  F > I was told about this problem with VMS when I was managing a VAX 750? > using VMS 2.5 (1982) by someone who ran a VAX/VMS timesharing   @ I think you may be confusing a few details. AIR, the 7xx support' didn't appear and work until 3.x or so.s   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:58:45 +0000 (UTC)$6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)D Subject: [OpenVMS VAX V7.3, Alpha V7.3-2] Bug in SYS$FAO still there0 Message-ID: <newscache$u35wsh$bvl$1@news.sil.at>  @ I just stumbled (via a typo) of some kind of old bug in SYS$FAO.J At least GOOGLE tells so (known since at least V5.5-2), it was new for me.  G The use of the "!-" FAO directive (without having a previous fao value)>E leads to a buffer overflow (an ACCVIO with a process logout on VAX ori# a %DCL-W-BUFOVF on Alpha) in F$FAO.   J To reproduce (and logout on VAX) try $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$FAO ("!-!#ZW",0)  M What has happened to the internal bug report which was logged (as Hoff wrote)-   -- C Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERa% Network and OpenVMS system specialistn E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Feb 2004 06:32:21 -0800% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn)a9 Subject: Re: [TCPIP V5.4] DHCP client problem/observationg= Message-ID: <a98cd882.0402110632.4d793f3f@posting.google.com>r   Hi Matt,  @ While we are at this, can you maybe explain why constructs like:  B f$edit("sys$common:[sysmgr]tcpip$dhcp_setupcommands.com","upcase")  F are used in almost all TCPIP command files? They seem rather redundantD to me. OpenVMS system managers will NEVER enable case sensitive file names on system disks.   Regards,  	 Bart Zorny    t "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com> wrote in message news:<P4iWb.51285$Wa.9904@news-server.bigpond.net.au>... > Thanks Peter,r >  > We'll get that one fixed.s >  > Matt.e >  > -- r? > -------------------------------------------------------------d > OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering > Enterprise Computing Group > Hewlett-Packard Company  > Gold Coast, AUSTRALIA ? > -------------------------------------------------------------a >  > E > "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message / > news:dC2Sb.358959$Tz1.11946@news.chello.at...oJ > > 1) In SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$DEFINE_COMMANDS.COM there used to be a command >  sequencei > > like > >a > > $! DHCP Utilities  > > $!J > > $ if f$search("sys$common:[sysmgr]tcpip$dhcp_setupcommands.com") .nes. >  "" -o= > >     then @sys$common:[sysmgr]tcpip$dhcp_setupcommands.com  > >b9 > > which got replaced (probably with ODS-5 in mind) withd > >d > > $ ! dhcp utilities > > $ !s > > $     dhcp_proc =0E >  f$edit("sys$common:[sysmgr]tcpip$dhcp_setupcommands.com","upcase")e  > > $     if f$search(dhcp_proc) > > $     then > > $         @'dhcp_proc' > > $     endif  > > $ > > and this obviously doesn't work.B > > At least there should be a ' .NES. ""' and the end of the 'IF' > >eE > > This has happened at or near V5.3 (ECO2) already. So better checks >  yourself.I > > (it seems to depend with which version you first configured your DHCPn
 >  client) > >  > >0 > > I > > 2) If I have a DHCP server (and I currently have) which unfortunately 
 >  doesn't* > > send client hostnames (type 12 "ho and) >  "SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$DHCP]CLIENT.PCY"wK > > contains "request hostname" of course) the DHCP client writes somethingo >  likef > >nA > > The DHCP server did not pass a host name for this host to uses3 > > Using the requested hostname <hostname> insteadh > > M > > and there it goes and all works. It seems that this happens only if theretD > > is a file "SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$DHCP]HOSTNAME." but not the fileM > > "SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$DHCP]interface.DHC" - as it is with the first boot.e > >sN > > With the second boot, the "SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$DHCP]interface.DHC" existsN > > and doesn't contain a hostname (because the DHCP server didn't send it andJ > > nobody else did it add), and then, the msg "Using the requested..." no	 >  longeruJ > > appears and the client names itself "unknown" (till I delete *.DHC and >  reboot).s > >tH > > Can anyone confirm this behaviour (I see it as a bug in DHCP client, >  triggeredN > > by a bug in the DHCP server) in TCPIP V5.4 (and in V5.3, at least in ECO2)/ > > and maybe even make a formal support call ?O > >S > > Many TIA > >- > > -- 6 > > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER.) > > Network and OpenVMS system specialista  > > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atJ > > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.083 ************************