0 INFO-VAX	Thu, 12 Feb 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 84      Contents:/ Computer Security and Checksums From L.A. Times  Day of Year DCL procedure  Re: Day of Year DCL procedure  disk drive partition?  Re: disk drive partition?  Re: disk drive partition?  Re: File transfers to a PC8 Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD Athlon8 Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD Athlon Re: HTTP server for OpenVMS??? Re: HTTP server for OpenVMS???P RE: Intel and Microsoft provide higher 32-bit applications         performanceonP Re: Intel and Microsoft provide higher 32-bit applications performanceon  Itaniu: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! Re: OpenVMS Feelings Re: OpenVMS FeelingsH Re: OT: Another American arrested in Brazil after making obscene gesture Re: PSION, another Digital Re: PSION, another Digital: SYS$STARTUP:MMOV$STARTUP.COM -- lacks something (priority) Re: VMS Systems Disposal Re: VMS Systems Disposal- Re: What kind of memory for AlphaServer 1000? - Re: What kind of memory for AlphaServer 1000?  Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?0 Re: [TCPIP V5.4] DHCP client problem/observation  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:27:21 -0800 " From: Shi Difu <shidifu50@mac.com>8 Subject: Computer Security and Checksums From L.A. Times; Message-ID: <shidifu50-F00D1F.11272011022004@news.ucla.edu>   D This was in Tues. L.A. Times, note mention of 'Texas-based' Digital  Equipment Corp!   I http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-tadjer10feb10,1,4119 ( 839.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions   
 COMMENTARY  # Gates Fiddles as PCs Crash and Burn   E Inexpensive, efficient virus protection could be built into software.   By Rivka TadjerF  Rivka Tadjer is a business journalist and novelist based in New York.    February 10, 2004  E  Imagine for a moment that fires are raging all over the Los Angeles  C area. Fire-emergency officials broadcast that the only way they're  E willing to combat the spreading flames is to hunt for teenagers with  D matches. No flying fire extinguishers, no firefighting forces, even G though both the manpower and equipment are available and the Santa Ana  I winds are blowing. Citizens who don't put fires out by hosing down their  / homes and lawns have only themselves to blame.    A  This is essentially the way computer viruses are fought today   B Internet citizens are responsible for putting out the fire by not A opening e-mail attachments and by buying and updating anti-virus  E programs, such as Symantec Corp.'s Norton Antivirus, that detect and  E delete virus files before they have a chance to infiltrate computers.   F  And if we happen to mistake an attachment or fail to make an update? I It's our fault, which is a big problem, because in the arms race between  A hackers and anti-virus programs, the hackers have the upper hand.   H  In reality, scruffy 16-year-old hackers who want fame by way of infamy G can infect your computer whenever they please because operating system  H vendors  yes, primarily Microsoft  don't inoculate their software for G infestations before they sell it to you. And, adding insult to injury,  F the ability to inoculate software before putting it on the market has  been around for years.  E  One of the most trusted inoculation methods is called a "checksum,"  E which is a computer code that mathematically checks the integrity of  H software operating systems and applications and pinpoints problems that : can then be solved before the software gets to you or me.   H  Back when the word "computer" meant a machine that took up a room in a F big company, Texas-based Digital Equipment Corp. was one company that H built effective virus protection into its operating systems, and it had H to deal with formidable "hackers" like enemy governments and industrial E spies. As luck would have it, DEC didn't survive the PC boom, but it   proved that checksums work.   H  In fact, checksums and other inoculations are plentiful. Tech security B businesses such as Symantec and Network Associates can make these I products available to operating system vendors. When they're used, their  G success rate exceeds that of most birth control methods. The consensus  H of security studies over the last few years is that 85% of all computer I hacks succeed only because the fixes, such as the trusted checksums, are  F simply not applied. If they were in place, it would be like seeing on ) the news that 85% of a fire is contained.   C  Last November, heavy hitters in the tech security world testified  G before Congress that devastating virus attacks were inevitable because  E of the holes that Microsoft and others, such as Sun Microsystems and  H Novell, were leaving in their operating systems for no good reason. The F testimony is still available on the website of the House Committee on D Energy and Commerce. Microsoft reportedly was invited to attend the  hearing but declined.   H  Security experts say the cost of creating a virus-inoculated operating E system is relatively minor. When pushed to give a dollar figure, one  @ expert estimated that the cost of a checksum-vaccinated Windows I application, if passed on to the consumer, would amount to an additional  , $5 per shrink-wrapped purchase. I say, sold!  G  So, why haven't Microsoft or the others solved the problem? Let's use  A Bill Gates as the ringleader example, because others will follow  E whatever he does and do nothing if he won't. Gates hasn't solved the  H problem because it means licensing someone else's checksum. The emperor E has proved over the years that he is not a fan of renting things; he  @ wants to own them. So far, the tech security companies with the  solutions aren't for sale.  H  And so far, Microsoft has waited to do anything  leaving consumers in E the lurch. Last summer, Microsoft purchased the anti-virus assets of  I GeCAD Software, a Romanian company, but as yet Gates isn't talking about  2 what Microsoft will do. He fiddles while we burn.   H  In the meantime, there will be days when up to 20% of your e-mails may C contain a virus. And that virus, quite possibly, could infect your  1 computer whether or not you open any attachments.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:45:01 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> " Subject: Day of Year DCL procedure' Message-ID: <402A863D.5070605@MMaz.com>   H I'm in a hurry and rather than reinvent another wheel, does anyone have E a segment of a DCL procedure for returning the Day of the Year?  For  H example, today is 11-Feb-2004, I would want the procedure to return 42, H and this procedure must obviously take into consideration leap year and  so on...   Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:39:34 GMT 4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)& Subject: Re: Day of Year DCL procedure, Message-ID: <aqwWb.8479$yE5.30283@attbi_s54>  U In article <402A863D.5070605@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes: I !I'm in a hurry and rather than reinvent another wheel, does anyone have  F !a segment of a DCL procedure for returning the Day of the Year?  For I !example, today is 11-Feb-2004, I would want the procedure to return 42,  I !and this procedure must obviously take into consideration leap year and  	 !so on...   	 Hi Barry,    Stole this from dcl.openvms.org    $!) $! computes day-in-year for a given date.  $! P1 should be DD-MMM-YYYY 6 $!              thanks to hein.vandenheuvel@compaq.com $! $ if p1.eqs."" then exit+ $ target = f$cvtime(p1,,"date") ! Normalize A $ x = 256                ! Binary search starting point. max=5000 3 $ f = 1                  ! Add or subtract factor ? : $ j = -1                 ! Deal with 0-Jan not being valid $loop: $ j = j + (f * x)  $ f = 1  $ x = x / 2 * $ test = f$cvtime( "1-JAN +''j'-",,"date")  $ if test.gts.target then f = -1# $ if test.nes.target then goto loop  $  $ Julianx == j + 1 $ sho symb julianx $ exit !  !Barry !  !--  ! ? !Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com ? !Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320 ? !Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028  !                        !  !   J __________________________________________________________________________A Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own" K bMradAhamiPltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt     "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-'  0                                          with @"   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Feb 2004 12:22:51 -0800, From: JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow) Subject: disk drive partition?= Message-ID: <4b6ec350.0402111222.11bdba56@posting.google.com>   ( Can I "partition" an OpenVMS disk drive?A We purchased a thin AlphaServer 10L with one internal disk drive. B Can we split that drive into two disks ... one ODS-2 and the other ODS-5 (for Oracle 9i work)? 5 We will do everything on one ODS-5 disk if necessary. C We would "like" to run an older version of Oracle on an ODS-2 disk; D but we will have to do that on another larger AlphaServer (harder to carry around) if necessary.   
 Thank you.2 Jim Strehlow, Data911.com, OpenVMS Systems Manager   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:32:22 -0500 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>" Subject: Re: disk drive partition?- Message-ID: <402A5916.9326.1601D55@localhost>   , On 11 Feb 2004 at 12:22, Jim Strehlow wrote:* > Can I "partition" an OpenVMS disk drive?  
 Sorry, no.  8 > We will do everything on one ODS-5 disk if necessary.   C Recent versions of VMS support ODS-5 as the system disk.  Probably  E the best way to go, unless you cluster with VAX systems (which don't   understand ODS-5).  D > Can we split that drive into two disks ... one ODS-2 and the other > ODS-5   A Sorta.  You could download the LD or VD driver from the Freeware  E disk, and allocate a big "container file".  The driver allows you to  B "mount" the container as a disk, which could be formatted in your  choice of file systems.   A I do something like this on a 500 MHz Alpha, and it works okay... 
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:51:31 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> " Subject: Re: disk drive partition?0 Message-ID: <MpadnV6q97-IQbfd4p2dnA@comcast.com>  ; Not with VMS!  VMS lacks the capability to partition disks.   H Oracle recommends that a database be spread over some minimum number of G disks; I seem to recall that at least five are recommended.  (At least  I this is true of Oracle 7.x and Oracle 8.x; I've not yet managed a system   with Oracle 9.x)  E This recommendation means physical disk drives not partitions of one  I drive.  It's a matter of splitting the I/O load over N spindles and sets  B of heads.  You can also use partitions of RAID 5 sets as the RAID H spreads the load over multiple disks.  If you do this, it helps to have A a big cache and a good caching algorithm in your RAID controller.   > You can take one very large disk and put everything on it but ' performance will almost certainly suck!    Jim Strehlow wrote:   ) >Can I "partition" an OpenVMS disk drive? B >We purchased a thin AlphaServer 10L with one internal disk drive.C >Can we split that drive into two disks ... one ODS-2 and the other  >ODS-5 (for Oracle 9i work)?6 >We will do everything on one ODS-5 disk if necessary.D >We would "like" to run an older version of Oracle on an ODS-2 disk;E >but we will have to do that on another larger AlphaServer (harder to  >carry around) if necessary. >  >Thank you. 3 >Jim Strehlow, Data911.com, OpenVMS Systems Manager  >    >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:10:09 -0500 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com># Subject: Re: File transfers to a PC - Message-ID: <402A37C1.25414.DDE78B@localhost>    > Can the Vax somehow + > connect directly to the ethernet network?   E It sounds like it is.  You're not pulling this data through a serial   port at 9600 baud, are you?    > We thought maybe we could 7 > connect a PC directly to the Coax server for the Vax.   E Yes, if the PC has a coaxial connector on the network card.  But you  A can't just hook it straight-through -- both ends need a coax "T"  E connector a with 50-ohm terminator.  Find someone who's been through  ' "coax" to "coax" you through this part.   = It should look like this (if you're viewing this in Courier):   ?    [terminator]--T--  ========(coax)========= --T--[terminator] 1                  |                              | 3                [vax]                           [pc]     E Once you get the connectivity right, you could use ZIP on the VAX to  D make the files smaller.  I assume they're text -- they should smash  down by about 50%.      
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Feb 2004 12:02:25 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) A Subject: Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD Athlon = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0402111202.3935824a@posting.google.com>   ^ Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote in message news:<4027d2e5$0$28923$626a14ce@news.free.fr>...Q > The paper sez that HP may cancel all developments on iA64 and go AMD/Athlon 64.   D This article is just Yet Another Speculation that Intel will produceF an x86-48 compatible chip, thus trading roles with AMD and becoming an AMD clone-maker.  B As even "The Register" puts it, "Would Intel want to admit that itC thinks a rival's technology is the best way forward?  We doubt it." 1 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/35201.html    I doubt it, too.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 02:22:17 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> A Subject: Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD Athlon H Message-ID: <tlgWb.21161$Ovt.10364@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Didier Morandi wrote: C >> The paper sez that HP may cancel all developments on iA64 and go  >> AMD/Athlon 64.  > C > There is no question that HP will eventually abandon IA64. The HP F > apologists say it won't happen for another 50 years. Realists say it# > will happen in a couple of years.  > C > For as much as I believe that HP will drop IA64 soon,  HP will be A > very careful not to give any hints that it is preparing an exit C > strategy with Intel. So any article today that states that HP has E > already decided would be speculation (even if you agree with it, it  > remains speculation).  > F > IA64 isn't enough of a dud to be declared dead yet. But both  HP andA > Intel know that the amounts of money required to keep IA64 from F > lagging too far behind are not sustainable when you consider the low
 > volumes. > E > The only variable one can look for in the next year will be Windows F > on IA64. They could quietly forget about windows on IA64. That wouldG > prevent the egg-on-face when microsoft announces it is pulling out of G > IA64 because of low volumes (as it had with MIPS, PowerPC and Alpha). @ > If HP/Intel decide to really push Windows on IA64 big time, itE > indicates that their exit strategy from IA64 will take a bit longer  > to implement.     E The problem will be when the shit hits the fan...not that they choose I AMD...buit that they have to write-off their investment in IA64 from HP's  balance sheet.  L But you say that it's Intel's problem....but HP could only expense the costsI while it was in R&D and once product began to ship they had to capitalize J the cost. Look for a $2-4 Billion hit to the balance sheet on carly's (tm)
 watch RSN.    The shareholders won't be happy.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:52:07 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) ' Subject: Re: HTTP server for OpenVMS??? 0 Message-ID: <rRuWb.181$fC6.106@news.cpqcorp.net>  w In article <Xns948B955853876pdandenaultssd5nrlna@132.250.1.121>, Pat Dandenault <pdandenault@ssd5.nrl.navy.mil> writes: B :Can anyone recommend a small/secure/free HTTP server for OpenVMS?  B   The OpenVMS FAQ has pointers to the available webserver options.  A   An Apache port (SWS) is supported by HP OpenVMS Engineering and >   available on the eBusiness CD shipping with OpenVMS (and via?   download), and there are various other good options available B   -- WASD and OSU come immediately to mind, and are both certainly   well-regarded options.  A   Again, please see the FAQ for various of the options.  (If I'm  B   missing any available webserver option(s), send the details or aA   pointer along, and I'll add it to the next edition of the FAQ.)   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:19:26 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>' Subject: Re: HTTP server for OpenVMS??? 4 Message-ID: <402a8041$0$28653$626a14ce@news.free.fr>   http://wasd.vsm.com.au/    :-)    D.   Pat Dandenault wrote:   C > Can anyone recommend a small/secure/free HTTP server for OpenVMS?  > L > It doesn't have to have many bells and whistles.. in fact, we simply want H > to append a log file to index.html so we can check the status of some  > processing from our desks. > 	 > Thanks,  > Pat  > pdandenault@ssd5.nrl.navy.mil  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:33:18 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> Y Subject: RE: Intel and Microsoft provide higher 32-bit applications         performanceon 9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICEPCCMAA.tom@kednos.com>   F I only looked at IRI, because I have somer famliliarty with them, theyF run GUTS (Gothenburg University Time-Sharing System) on IBM MainframesG with all their applications written in PL/I and those 130TB are online!   F The Itanium platform appears to an asynchronous front-end for querying and not queering the data.       -----Original Message-----:   From: Keith Parris [mailto:keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com]-   Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 11:10 AM    To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com E   Subject: Re: Intel and Microsoft provide higher 32-bit applications    performanceon Itanium       8   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message '   news:<401FDC64.3D1AA885@istop.com>... G   > Does anyone really expect Windows to be more than a demo on IA64 ?     G   The folks buying Windows Server 2003 and SQL Server 2000 (64-bit) for !   their Itanium-based systems do.    <   For example, 786K TPC-C (#3 TPC-C result) on Windows on an   Itanium-based SuperDome:D   http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/performance/   tpcc2.mspx;   and http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_perf_results.asp       Or like Reuters D   http://www.microsoft.com/resources/casestudies/CaseStudy.asp?CaseS   tudyID=13430
   JetBlue D   http://www.microsoft.com/resources/casestudies/CaseStudy.asp?CaseS   tudyID=13932   MultiYork D   http://www.microsoft.com/resources/casestudies/CaseStudy.asp?CaseS   tudyID=13944   123Multimedia D   http://www.microsoft.com/resources/casestudies/CaseStudy.asp?CaseS   tudyID=14299   Information Resources, Inc. D   http://www.microsoft.com/resources/casestudies/CaseStudy.asp?CaseS   tudyID=13929   ?   > Will the 8086 softaware emulator on IA64 be of any use for     HP-UX ? (could it B   > provide an environment where you could boot a 8086 version of    windows ? (aka:    > Insignia solutions) ?    > C   > Or is the emulator really targetted only at a windows instance     on IA64 wishing /   > to run windows software compiled for 8086 ?    
   The latter.       --- (   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B   Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004    --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Feb 2004 11:10:16 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) Y Subject: Re: Intel and Microsoft provide higher 32-bit applications performanceon  Itaniu = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0402111110.3c5fc103@posting.google.com>   [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<401FDC64.3D1AA885@istop.com>... E > Does anyone really expect Windows to be more than a demo on IA64 ?    E The folks buying Windows Server 2003 and SQL Server 2000 (64-bit) for  their Itanium-based systems do.   : For example, 786K TPC-C (#3 TPC-C result) on Windows on an Itanium-based SuperDome:L http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/performance/tpcc2.mspx9 and http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_perf_results.asp   ^ Or like Reuters http://www.microsoft.com/resources/casestudies/CaseStudy.asp?CaseStudyID=13430V JetBlue http://www.microsoft.com/resources/casestudies/CaseStudy.asp?CaseStudyID=13932	 MultiYork N http://www.microsoft.com/resources/casestudies/CaseStudy.asp?CaseStudyID=13944\ 123Multimedia http://www.microsoft.com/resources/casestudies/CaseStudy.asp?CaseStudyID=14299 Information Resources, Inc. N http://www.microsoft.com/resources/casestudies/CaseStudy.asp?CaseStudyID=13929  N > Will the 8086 softaware emulator on IA64 be of any use for HP-UX ? (could itO > provide an environment where you could boot a 8086 version of windows ? (aka:  > Insignia solutions) ?  > P > Or is the emulator really targetted only at a windows instance on IA64 wishing- > to run windows software compiled for 8086 ?    The latter.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:26:51 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! ) Message-ID: <4029A0EA.1CE97AAE@istop.com>    Dirk Munk wrote:O > and  produce a similar cpu. The market will not tolerate a different approach Q > that is not compatible with the AMD cpu's. Not even the mighty Intel can afford 
 > to do that.   K Actually, it depends on when Intel unleashes its 64 bit 8086. If it were to N release it today, it could afford to be different because AMD hasn't yet taken
 strong roots.   J Initially, the secret of the 64 bit 8086 will be its ability to run 32 bitK 8086 code. A "different" Intel 8086 could still be able to run 32 bit code.   K It is a given that Intel will have extensions to AMD's extensions to the 32 K bit 8086. For one thing, one can expect lockstep, and varous things to make ! the 8086 more "enterprise" ready.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:35:26 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! ) Message-ID: <4029B0F9.26F21AB7@istop.com>    Keith Parris wrote: C > While this would be great for AMD, how would it be for Intel?  It F > would put Intel into "me-too" territory and catch-up mode, when they? > prefer to be thought of as industry leaders.  I think Intel's H > engineering pride and their sense that they have great marketing powerA > would most likely push them to do a "better" set of extensions,  > incompatible with AMD's.  K No. My guess would be for Intel to add extensions to AMD's 64 bit solution. K This way, they can run standard off the shelf windows that was designed for L AMD, but can also get niche market stuff such as HPUX, VMS and NSK to run on@ the Intel version whereas the AMD version will lack those hooks.  J Of course, the minute Intel announces that the 8086 will have lockstep, itN will be a very loud and clear messages that IA64 is going down the drain sinceM if Tandem/NSK goes 8086, so will HPUX and VMS. So when Intel announces its 64 9 bit 8086, I suspect we won't get the full story just yet.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:08:48 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Feelings 6 Message-ID: <402980A0.B763CC83@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Fabio Cardoso wrote: >  > Hi People  > : > How do you feel in your companies working with OpenVMS ? > ? > Abandoned, alone, no integrated, nobody cares about your job, ? > no body listens you, your are forgotten in the meetings, your B > system works but its not important for the IT staff -  just for2 > the end-users, feeling at the end-of-career, ... > " > Just to know if I am not alone !  E Y'know, I wish I could post an internal memo that crossed my LookOut! ? inbox just yesterday. Suffice it to say, it should be posted on E billboards along the highway to/from ZKO, and long the routes to/from F the airport to that same facility, as well as the path to/from Carly'sG office. Then, EVERYone at hp + OpenVMS would know EXACTLY, verbatim, in H the authors' (plural, possessive) own words, what is being said about hp and OpenVMS at client sites.  D If someone can e-mail me privately with the e-mail addresses of hp'sE BOD, I'll consider putting (what's left of) my career on the line and + sending it to them with some kind of cover.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:48:31 -0500 ! From: "Chris" <noreply@thank.you>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS Feelings 9 Message-ID: <xuiWb.5267$sO4.772404@news20.bellglobal.com>   H Consider yourself very fortunate.  10 years ago I might have described aK similar atmosphere, but creeping Windowism has turned all references to the J (still mission-critical) VMS systems to "legacy systems".  Yet day in, dayL out, the 30 or so "legacy" Alpha and VAX systems are the only ones not beingJ constantly patched for security bugs, locking up or crashing due to sloppyJ kernel code, etc, etc.  While the critical data is serviced by a couple ofK ES40's with Rdb, one of the plants still has 2 MicroVAX II's still chugging K along for crying out loud!  We're down to 2 admins (1 is a contract player) : and a trainee, with only part-time DBA assistance.........  K All the users care about is that they do what they require, but all the "IT J visionaries" care about is that they're not 'sexy' enough to justify large staffs and budget.    3 "Lee Mah" <lytmah@telusplanet.net> wrote in message & news:ZJhWb.30076$QX4.11654@clgrps13...K > We have a good atmosphere in our company, a government organization which H > provides health care for almost one million people.  VMS has been here
 > for overJ > 20 years, which is why most of our clients still refer to the VMScluster > as the "VAX", H > even though all the cluster nodes are Alpha's.  I don't feel abandoned > or alone. G > There are 3 full-time VMS administrators, along with a DBA who spends 	 > part of J > his time doing RMS file maintenance.  We also have about 20 VMS analystsB > maintaining and developing applications.  Our VMScluster handles > mission-critical > applications for the company.  >  >  > Fabio Cardoso wrote: >  > >Hi People > > ; > >How do you feel in your companies working with OpenVMS ?  > > @ > >Abandoned, alone, no integrated, nobody cares about your job,@ > >no body listens you, your are forgotten in the meetings, yourC > >system works but its not important for the IT staff -  just for 3 > >the end-users, feeling at the end-of-career, ...  > > # > >Just to know if I am not alone !  > > 
 > >Regards > >  > >FC  > >  > >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:56:40 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> Q Subject: Re: OT: Another American arrested in Brazil after making obscene gesture ' Message-ID: <4029E038.85C40906@aaa.com>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:   > Look at what happened . > to Putin's opposition. He was "disappeared".  7 Actualy, to be true, he took off on a short holliday on 6 his own will, and just shut of his cellular phone. And5 hence "disappeared". When he found out yesterday what 5 was going on, he just put in on again and was back on  the court...  	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 00:45:38 -0000 4 From: "Chris Casey" <chris.caseyNOSPAM@ntlworld.com># Subject: Re: PSION, another Digital @ Message-ID: <TWeWb.3360$cb7.24807@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:4028B64C.F68F3D53@istop.com... > > Sadly, I see so many similarities between PSION and Digital. > K > PSION is yet another exmaple of a company that had an establihed, leading G > product line, and allowed itself to wither away even thought it had a  superior? > product, simply because the competitors HAD BETTER MARKETING.  >  > C > Seems that everytime I choose a product because it is technically 	 superior, K > the owner disagrees with me and works hard to get rid of that product. It + > happened with Digital/VMS and with PSION.    Jeff,   L I have to agree with you on this one. When my Psion 5MX finally dies I don'tD know what I will do. None of the Windows or palm based machines come> anywhere near to the functionality of this 5 year old product.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 02:16:59 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> # Subject: Re: PSION, another Digital H Message-ID: <vggWb.21158$Ovt.19230@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  ...  <.snip.> >  > C > Seems that everytime I choose a product because it is technically  > superior, ? > the owner disagrees with me and works hard to get rid of that 
 > product. It + > happened with Digital/VMS and with PSION.   L I guess companies that want to survive will have to stop selling products to you then.  ;-)   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:47:01 -0600 (CST)  From: sms@antinode.orgC Subject: SYS$STARTUP:MMOV$STARTUP.COM -- lacks something (priority) ) Message-ID: <04021121470117@antinode.org>   C    And while I'm complaining about SYS$STARTUP:MMOV$SHUTDOWN.COM, I E recently (at long last) figured out why I've been getting such choppy ? MPEG playback after system startup until I manually restart the  MMOV$SERVER process.  G    In SYS$STARTUP:MMOV$STARTUP.COM, the "RUN /DETACHED" command lacks a G "/PRIORITY" qualifier, so if it's run from a typical batch queue (as it E was on my system), the MMOV$SERVER process inherits a reduced process F priority, resulting in poor performance.  (And on an AlpSta 200 4/233,@ it needs all the performance advantages it can scrape together.)  -    Adding a suitable qualifier seems to help:    ************/ File SYS$COMMON:[SYS$STARTUP]MMOV$STARTUP.COM;2    136        /priority = 4 -   137        /privileges=all - ******/ File SYS$COMMON:[SYS$STARTUP]MMOV$STARTUP.COM;1    129        /privileges=all - ************  G    I'd like to know if anyone else has hit this, or if I'm the only one G foolish enough to put this into a batch job instead of mainlining it in  SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Feb 2004 22:28:33 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)! Subject: Re: VMS Systems Disposal : Message-ID: <c0eaag$168vir$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  3 In article <c0e8bq$t18$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>, @ 	"Robert A. Matern" <ramatern@SeND.MEuninetsNO.SPaM.net> writes: > B > Would you care to post some information backing up these claims?  " Please don't feed the troll.......   bill   -- mJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Feb 2004 01:00:59 -0500+ From: "Joe Heimann" <heimann@ecs.umass.edu>?! Subject: Re: VMS Systems Disposal + Message-ID: <402b169b@news-1.oit.umass.edu>e  < Robert A. Matern <ramatern@send.meuninetsno.spam.net> wrote:  B > Would you care to post some information backing up these claims?  ? He probably won't.  This message was spammed across a number of D newsgroups, just with small changes to reflect the possible types of- equipment readers of those groups might have.u  2 > "Brian" <brian@brassvalley.com> wrote in message9 > news:2d2fb529.0402061852.3b08d1ce@posting.google.com...rA >> Did you know that if your company does the following with yourkI >> computer equipment that you may be risking having penalties applied toeF >> your company by Federal, State, and Local regulations, compromisingH >> your company's data security, incurring legal and insurance expenses,D >> damage to your corporate reputation, and being fined by the EPA?? >> >> Do you utilize: >>, >> COMPUTER DONATIONS? YOU ARE STILL LIABLE!: >> COMPUTER LIQUIDATION/LIQUIDATORS? YOU ARE STILL LIABLE!, >> COMPUTER RECYCLING? YOU ARE STILL LIABLE!6 >> DISPOSITION VIA DUMPSTER? YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW! >>I >> With all these scenarios, the EPA may still define your company as theTG >> "Generator of Waste" and would pursue your company in the event thatnD >> one of your Monitors or the like was found in a landfill. Even ifB >> ownership was transferred to a recycler, reseller or non-profitI >> organization- you are still liable. Remember it isn't what you do with I >> old computers that matters in these situations, it is where it ends up 0 >> in 4 years from the people that have it then. >> >>@ >> Most companies are not aware of how exposed they are with theG >> traditional methods of removing surplus computer equipment. However, F >> as companies increasingly strive to be environmentally responsible,E >> and are also increasingly risk averse, they are beginning to learnpF >> that the old ways of disposing of surplus computer equipment are noB >> longer adequate to address the potential risk of being named inB >> pollution lawsuit or an event involving Data Security, Software >> Licensing or Legal Action.t >>I >> Most COMPUTER RECYCLING/COMPUTER DISPOSAL companies take care of assetpI >> tracking and disposition / COMPUTER DISPOSAL, but NO ONE ELSE builds a C >> legal firewall between you and potential litigation with variousvH >> entities including the EPA. If you use COMPUTER DONATIONS or COMPUTERH >> LIQUIDATION / LIQUIDATORS and the individuals that get your computersE >> dump the used materials inappropriately, the e-waste can be tracedr# >> back to the original owner: YOU!s >> >> >> For more information visit -r >>M > http://www.brassvalley.com/htm/COMPUTER_RECYCLING%20COMPUTER%20DISPOSAL.htmw   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 19:09:34 -0500c% From: "DAVID TURNER" <DAVID@HPAQ.NET> 6 Subject: Re: What kind of memory for AlphaServer 1000?0 Message-ID: <102lh225v1p9oae@news.supernews.com>   The AS1000a uses the following  ) X x 36Bit Parity SIMMS (Gold is standard) J Largest SIMM is 64MB and these must be installed in fours, unless you have( an AS1000a 4/266 - then you need 5 simms (1 is for ECC)  # They are very hard to find nowadaysa   David  -- i Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St Suite 180t Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 4476622 Fax: 912 201 0402", Email (SPAMproofed) dbturner@islandco.nospam (replace nospam with .com)    6 "Alfred Falk" <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> wrote in message3 news:Xns948C6E272160Efalkarcabca@198.161.157.145... ; > What kind memory SIMMs are required for AlphaServer 1000?dL > I have a manual for 1000A and it just refers to "SIMMs" withou any kind ofL > qualifier.  I happen to have on hand 5 16 MB EDO SIMMs but it doesn't seem > to recognize them. >s > Thanks for any help. >s > -- eB > ----------------------------------------------------------------B >   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.caB > R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185- >   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Roada3 >                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canadau! > http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4 " > http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:27:13 -0700d% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>t6 Subject: Re: What kind of memory for AlphaServer 1000?= Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20040211182605.022cc420@192.168.0.11>l  * At 05:09 PM 2/11/2004, DAVID TURNER wrote: >The AS1000a uses the followingi >i* >X x 36Bit Parity SIMMS (Gold is standard)K >Largest SIMM is 64MB and these must be installed in fours, unless you have ) >an AS1000a 4/266 - then you need 5 simms  >(1 is for ECC)t > $ >They are very hard to find nowadays  H They're not hard at all to find.  I can find new, lifetime warranty 32mbK SIMMS that fit the bill quite nicely for $11 each at memory4less.com, amongt/ other places.  They run very well in my AS1000.    ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:18:53 GMTs0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?g, Message-ID: <1%wWb.8656$yE5.31395@attbi_s54>   John Santos wrote:   (snip)  H > Some terminals send a BREAK when they are turned off.  Many VAXes haltG > on break.  It probably wasn't the act of logging out that crashed the A > system, but the BREAK from turning off the terminal, which they - > probably did immediately after logging out.s  0 Well, it isn't that the terminal sends anything.  : BREAK is space (0) state for more than one character time.< Many will do that just unplugging the cable, which you can't blame the terminal for.    -- gleny   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:24:01 +0000a( From: John Travell <john@travell.uk.net>% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?D: Message-ID: <c0edin$14vsdr$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>   Tom Linden wrote:2 >  >   -----Original Message-----3 >   From: John Travell [mailto:john@travell.uk.net]t. >   Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 4:47 AM >   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ) >   Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?m >  >  >   Tom Linden wrote: H >   > I still maintain that if you can make a Pentium spin at 4 GHz thenH >   > you could do at least the same for VAX (which unlike Pentium has aK >   > symmetric, orthogonal instruction set)  To match the performance witheH >   > an Alpha you would probably need a clock of 8GHz or more.  I think" >   > this horse must now be dead. >   >aJ >   > I have seen numbers in the past of ~400K VMS systems worldwide.  How$ >   > many of those are VAXen today? >   >eL >   Sorry for the delay from the original, I just caught up with this thread; >     after a M$ induced loss of access to the newsgroup...4 > 
 >   Tom said:p$ >    > To match the performance with@ >    > an Alpha you would probably need a clock of 8GHz or more. > J >   If Alpha were a single issue machine this might be true, but it isn't.K >   Alpha retires up-to 4 instructions per cycle. IF each Alpha instructionhL >   did as much work as an x86 instruction, a 1Ghz Alpha would be comparableL >   to a 4Ghz x86. Since the average amount of work done per instruction andH >   the average number of instructions retired per cycle is less than anC >   optimal match, in reality a 1Ghz Alpha cannot match a 4Ghz x86.oJ >   However, a 1Ghz Alpha is massively faster than a 1Ghz x86. How much ofL >   this is memory bandwidth or cache or whatever is speculation, especially4 >   with the abject lack of real current benchmarks. > N > I appreciate the point; however, that is not an apples to apples comparison.J > Speaking of work per cycle, because of the weaker instruction set on the > alpha,M > it takes perhaps 2-3 cycles to produce the same result as a single cycle on  > the F > VAX, on the average. Now (since we are using the subjunctive) if you > contemplatedH > a multiple issue VAX architecture you could then compare them.  So you > shouldN > "normalize" the comparison by considering a single issue alpha.  The CDC6000L > series had multiple issue 40 years ago.  Because of data dependency, there > are2I > practical limitations to what may be achieved by multiple issue anyway.r > G > Moreover, we were discussing VAX not x86, which was only chosen as an 	 > examplepA > that it were technically possible to make the VAX spin as fast.0 >   I What you may have omitted to consider is that there was very very little O9 that actually completed in 1 tick on a VAX. Examples are:o
 movl r3,r4 nope halt :-)   something as simple asC movl @#(r3),@#(r4) would require *5* reads and a write to complete.w  / 1. fetch the address of the address of the datah  2. fetch the address of the data 3. fetch the data 6 4. fetch the address of the address of the destination' 5. fetch the address of the destination,$ 6. write the data to the destination  E If none of the relevant operands were in cache it could take quite a t long time to complete.  H One of the BIG problems that limited VAX performance is condition codes.I Do an instruction then wait for the condition codes to settle BEFORE you eF   can do a conditional operation. You cannot do anything else between - setting the condition codes and testing them. G This means no possibility of either out-of-order execution or multiple s instruction issue per cycle.  G Alpha fixed all of these issues, and many others. However the evidence  G of each process shrink being increasing behind schedule suggests Alpha o# has its own baggage to carry round.v  E It is possible that one of the hard bits to get working correctly at tA higher clock speeds in Alpha is the scorecard logic that ensures oH register integrity by stalling access to a newly written register until  the contents has settled.eH I speculate that moving this functionality into the compiler could help H performance by reducing the number of times that an execution unit gets H stalled. If that functionality is not already present, we will probably ! never know what it could achieve.r5 Perhaps an expert may choose to comment. (John R? :-)j        John Travella-    Independent VMS and Alpha Support analyst.o"    john- at - jomatech - dot - com    http://www.jomatech.com/n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:21:59 +0000u) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org>e% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? > Message-ID: <iOyWb.3945$vo1.994@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net>   Paul Repacholi wrote:.  ; > jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) writes:i >  > F >>I was told about this problem with VMS when I was managing a VAX 750? >>using VMS 2.5 (1982) by someone who ran a VAX/VMS timesharings >  > B > I think you may be confusing a few details. AIR, the 7xx support) > didn't appear and work until 3.x or so.g  F I think that VAX-11/750 support popped up in V2.0 in about 1980 or so.A The VAX-11/730 and VAX-11/725 were later (1983 or so, but I don't ) know if that coincided with V3.0 or not)."  C The VAX-11/785 cropped up in V3.4 or so and the VAX-11/782 had been  around since V1.4 or V1.5.    = The last VAX-11/7xx (the VAX 8600) appeared in V4.0 - I don'tS; know if they had to hold up that release to wait for it :-)   6 (In fact, according to my notes, the 1.7VUP 11/785 was? announced in early April 1984 and the 4.2VUP 8600 was announcedn= only 7 months later on the last day of October. I assume thatr? there was a hefty price differential, if only not to cheese off ' anyone who had just bought an 11/785!).-     Antonio      -- ,   --   ---------------0- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgr   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Feb 2004 20:25:42 -08007 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)c% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? = Message-ID: <8a646952.0402112025.7c16cbe1@posting.google.com>e  a Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message news:<87r7x17hkx.fsf@prep.synonet.com>...C; > jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) writes:e > H > > I was told about this problem with VMS when I was managing a VAX 750A > > using VMS 2.5 (1982) by someone who ran a VAX/VMS timesharingn > B > I think you may be confusing a few details. AIR, the 7xx support) > didn't appear and work until 3.x or so.w   Dear Paul Repacholi:  E I could be mistaken. This is what I can recall from this itme. I went D to DEC training school for Utility and Command and System ManagementB in Los Angeles, CA in 1982 where we covered the VAX 11/780 and VAXF 11/750. We trained exclusively on the VAX 11/780. The operating systemD training was on VMS 2.5. Before training, the VAX 11/750 had arrived@ on site. The VMS manuals color was orange that came with the VAXD 11/750. VMS version 3.7 was the last version of VMS that I supported
 at this site.t   Regards, Daryl Jones    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 06:00:27 GMT-0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?t- Message-ID: <%DEWb.11164$jk2.36959@attbi_s53>a   John Travell wrote:A (snip)  J > One of the BIG problems that limited VAX performance is condition codes.K > Do an instruction then wait for the condition codes to settle BEFORE you rG >  can do a conditional operation. You cannot do anything else between A/ > setting the condition codes and testing them.rI > This means no possibility of either out-of-order execution or multiple n > instruction issue per cycle.  < It isn't that hard to do if you throw enough hardware at the? problem.  The 360/91 had condition codes and they could do both 2 multiple issue and out of order execution in 1967.  = The goal of the 91 was one instruction per 18MHz clock cycle,- including floating point.e   -- glen0   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 04:21:03 GMTn0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com>9 Subject: Re: [TCPIP V5.4] DHCP client problem/observatione< Message-ID: <P4iWb.51285$Wa.9904@news-server.bigpond.net.au>  
 Thanks Peter,a   We'll get that one fixed.n   Matt.4   --  = -------------------------------------------------------------v OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Hewlett-Packard Companye Gold Coast, AUSTRALIA = -------------------------------------------------------------e    C "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in messagea- news:dC2Sb.358959$Tz1.11946@news.chello.at...eH > 1) In SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$DEFINE_COMMANDS.COM there used to be a command sequence > like >a > $! DHCP Utilitiese > $!H > $ if f$search("sys$common:[sysmgr]tcpip$dhcp_setupcommands.com") .nes. "" -; >     then @sys$common:[sysmgr]tcpip$dhcp_setupcommands.com  >m7 > which got replaced (probably with ODS-5 in mind) withd >e > $ ! dhcp utilities > $ !s > $     dhcp_proc =eB f$edit("sys$common:[sysmgr]tcpip$dhcp_setupcommands.com","upcase") > $     if f$search(dhcp_proc) > $     then > $         @'dhcp_proc'
 > $     endifr >n" > and this obviously doesn't work.@ > At least there should be a ' .NES. ""' and the end of the 'IF' >dC > This has happened at or near V5.3 (ECO2) already. So better check 	 yourself.IG > (it seems to depend with which version you first configured your DHCPe client)n >  >  >iG > 2) If I have a DHCP server (and I currently have) which unfortunately  doesn'ts( > send client hostnames (type 12 "ho and& "SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$DHCP]CLIENT.PCY"I > contains "request hostname" of course) the DHCP client writes somethinge like >e? > The DHCP server did not pass a host name for this host to usea1 > Using the requested hostname <hostname> instead  > K > and there it goes and all works. It seems that this happens only if there B > is a file "SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$DHCP]HOSTNAME." but not the fileK > "SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$DHCP]interface.DHC" - as it is with the first boot.f >OL > With the second boot, the "SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$DHCP]interface.DHC" existsL > and doesn't contain a hostname (because the DHCP server didn't send it andH > nobody else did it add), and then, the msg "Using the requested..." no longerH > appears and the client names itself "unknown" (till I delete *.DHC and reboot). > F > Can anyone confirm this behaviour (I see it as a bug in DHCP client,	 triggeredtL > by a bug in the DHCP server) in TCPIP V5.4 (and in V5.3, at least in ECO2)- > and maybe even make a formal support call ?n >S
 > Many TIA >e > -- i > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER ' > Network and OpenVMS system specialist  > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.084 ************************