0 INFO-VAX	Sat, 14 Feb 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 88      Contents: Re: Allocation classes and SAN- ANN: FLIST V2.5-2 (now for OpenVMS IA64, too)  Answers to some IPF questions E BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this?  CPU benchmarks Re: CPU benchmarks Re: File transfers to a PC2 how to determine processes started at a given time0 How to make higher resolution GIF or JPEG image?4 Re: How to make higher resolution GIF or JPEG image?4 Re: How to make higher resolution GIF or JPEG image?8 Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD Athlon Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!  In case you do not know P Re: Intel and Microsoft provide higher 32-bit applications performance on Itaniu: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!% Re: Making images of RL02's under VMS  Re: Microvax vs Vaxstation 3100  Re: Microvax vs Vaxstation 3100  Re: Microvax vs Vaxstation 3100  Re: Microvax vs Vaxstation 3100 ) Mozilla for OpenVMS Alpha V1.5 available! - Re: Mozilla for OpenVMS Alpha V1.5 available! - Re: Mozilla for OpenVMS Alpha V1.5 available! - Re: Mozilla for OpenVMS Alpha V1.5 available! @ Re: obj/olb from vax. need to create source and migrate to alpha Re: OpenVMS Feelings@ Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus studyK Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... again! K Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... again! P Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... again! ... P Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... again! ... * Re: OT: Windows has become open source :-)* Re: OT: Windows has become open source :-)4 Re: php_value modifier in CSWS_PHP 1.2 and CSWS 1.3?5 Re: puzzle involving ALLOCLASS and SET VOLUME/REBUILD ( Re: Reversed links for joining Encompass' Re: Searching for VMS 5.x documentation ' Re: Searching for VMS 5.x documentation ' Re: Searching for VMS 5.x documentation P Some updated VMS information - I sent this to my email distribution lists earlie> Re: SYS$STARTUP:MMOV$STARTUP.COM -- lacks something (priority)! unable to assign PCI base address % Re: unable to assign PCI base address % Re: unable to assign PCI base address % Re: unable to assign PCI base address = Re: will these non-DEC disks work with my hobbyist equipment? = Re: will these non-DEC disks work with my hobbyist equipment? 1 Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full 1 Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full 1 Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full 1 Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full 1 Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full 1 RE: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2004 18:43:23 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: Allocation classes and SAN 3 Message-ID: <Tmxl2eW3wZnC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <c52d72e88db80cd38cb93b9c06a6200d@news.teranews.com>, Jilly <jilly@clarityconnect.com> writes:   N > Bad form to follow up my own post but also remember to set the PAQ on the DQ$ > ports also if they are being used.  7 Why not just let them default to the system ALLOCLASS ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:06:22 -0600 - From: Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com> 6 Subject: ANN: FLIST V2.5-2 (now for OpenVMS IA64, too): Message-ID: <EjfXb.42336$8a5.24719@bignews1.bellsouth.net>  F FLIST V2.5-2 is now available for download.  FLIST is a free TPU-basedF file and directory manager for OpenVMS VAX, OpenVMS Alpha, and OpenVMS@ IA64.  Using FLIST, you can easily view directory contents, view9 files, rename files, delete files, etc.  (It's similar in < functionality to CSWING, for those of you familiar with that
 software.)  D FLIST V2.5-2 includes the following updates from the previous V2.4-1 release:  E    - Ported to OpenVMS IA64 (Itanium) (little more than recompiling).   0    - Added "Contiguous Best Try" to copy_file().  5    - Several enhancements contributed by John Powers.   E      o Long file name are now properly handled by FLIST.  In previous F        versions, filenames were truncated in the FLIST display, and it-        was not possible to delete, view, etc. F      o Added confirmation before exiting, with a new variable that can;        be set in FLIST.INIT to disable this: flist$shutdown F      o Modified the "@" and "$" commands to run the current version ofH        a procedure or image.  Previously, the highest version was always        executed.2      o Added support for John's KED (KEpt eDitor).?      o Added an FLIST_ATTACH command for kept support (Gold-A). 9      o New procedure (Gold-?) to display full file names.   ( Thanks to John for all the new features.  8 FLIST can be downloaded using any of the following URLs:   http://www.process.com/openvms/   5 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/flist.zip : http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/flist.zip  1 ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/flist.zip 6 http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/flist.zip   and the usual mirrors.   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ ; <goathunter@GOATLEY.COM>     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2004 14:02:37 -08001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) & Subject: Answers to some IPF questions= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0402131402.625e4eb4@posting.google.com>    Dear Newsgroup,   B Today I sent the following to my distribution lists in response toE some questions about the porting that came from the Encompass OpenVMS . SIG.    Answers come from the product manager.  
 Warm Regards,  Sue       	 Questions     = Have the VMS engineers published the way we will move source  > and data files (we are still on VAXes) to the Itanium boxes?    ; Will a TCP/IP stack be included in the Itanium VMS version?   5 Will Pathworks be available when Itanium VMS is first 8 released commercially?  Or, is there another way to have8 a "seamless" integration with PCs that Pathworks offers?  $ will Itanium CPU's require SMP lics?   Answers C Q: Have the VMS engineers published the way we will move source and 8 data files (we are still on VAXes) to the Itanium boxes?E A: Porting applications from VAX to Itanium will involve work similar D to what would have been done to port applications from VAX to Alpha.? Although the port of most VAX applications to Alpha, and now to C Itanium, is fairly straightforward, there are certain architectural F differences in the platforms that require changes to the applications.B The key areas that involve differences are data alignment, H_FLOATD data types, data granularity, page sizes, and exception handling. HP? recommends that you refer to the "Migrating an Application from E OpenVMS VAX to OpenVMS Alpha" book and apply the recommendations from E that book as you port your applications from VAX to Itanium. For more 0 details (including the link to this book) visit:8 http://www.hp.com/products1/evolution/alpha_retaintrust/  > Q: Will a TCP/IP stack be included in the Itanium VMS version?D A: Yes, the TCP/IP product will be included in OpenVMS for IntegrityA servers. It is available on the V8.1 evaluation release. For more  details in V8.1 visit:@ http://www.hp.com/products1/evolution/alpha_retaintrust/openvms/  A Q: Will Pathworks be available when Itanium VMS is first released < commercially?  Or, is there another way to have a "seamless"+ integration with PCs that Pathworks offers? F A: Pathworks is not being ported to OpenVMS Itanium. However, AdvancedE Server for OpenVMS will be ported to OpenVMS I64 and will be enhanced E to support all platforms currently supported by the PATHWORKS server. C This will provide customers a simple installation and configuration < migration from PATHWORKS to Advanced Server, with no loss ofF functionality or support. Existing versions of PATHWORKS will continue@ to be supported on the OpenVMS VAX and Alpha platforms. For more3 information on layered product porting plans visit: R http://www.hp.com/products1/evolution/alpha_retaintrust/openvms/openvms_plans.html  C The current plan (presented at the November 2003 Advanced Technical C Boot Camp) is to license OpenVMS and the layered products using Per E Processor Licensing (PPL). So, rather than a Base O/S license and SMP D licenses, you just need one license with a quantity that matches theD number of CPUs in the box. In the case of a single cluster O/S disk,F you can one PPL license for the cluster that has enough units to cover. all the CPUs in all the nodes of the clulster.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 01:24:40 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> N Subject: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this?0 Message-ID: <102qu6osd6hr8e0@corp.supernews.com>   HELP!      D Why does COPY (and BACKUP) alter the file's allocated size (from 105A blocks to 35 ... see below ) ?!  This is causing databases on our  BACKUP tapes to be unusable.      $ dir/full db1.db       Directory DB1_DSK:[DB]     1 DB1.DB;1                     File ID:  (222,23,0) , Size:            4/105        Owner:    [DB]" Created:   22-JAN-2000 10:16:50.81) Revised:   13-FEB-2004 09:55:45.87 (8790)  Expires:   <None specified>  Backup:    <No backup recorded>  Effective: <None specified>  Recording: <None specified>  File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      OnlineG File attributes:    Allocation: 105, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0,  No version limit2 Record format:      Fixed length 1024 byte records Record attributes:  None RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None= File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:  Access Cntrl List:  None   Total of 1 file, 4/105 blocks.   $ copy db1.db x.x/log   C %COPY-S-COPIED, DB1_DSK:[DB]DB1.DB;1 copied to DB1_DSK:[DB]X.X;1 (4  blocks)       $ dir/full x.x   Directory DB1_DSK:[DB]     2 X.X;1                         File ID:  (329,33,0), Size:            4/35         Owner:    [DB]" Created:   13-FEB-2004 15:47:16.10& Revised:   13-FEB-2004 15:47:16.12 (1) Expires:   <None specified>  Backup:    <No backup recorded>  Effective: <None specified>  Recording: <None specified>  File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      OnlineF File attributes:    Allocation: 35, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0, No version limit2 Record format:      Fixed length 1024 byte records Record attributes:  None RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None= File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:  Access Cntrl List:  None   Total of 1 file, 4/35 blocks.    $    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2004 13:07:26 -08000 From: dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com (Dave Baxter) Subject: CPU benchmarks = Message-ID: <a3c44af1.0402131307.405593f8@posting.google.com>   9 I am looking into getting some GS1280's for my production F environments, currently running on racks of ES40's.    I am looking toF find out what the relative horsepower is between the 6/667MHz cpu's inB ES40's, and the 7/1.15GHz cpu's in GS1280.  (so I can estimate the value of n in n-way). F      I know there is a website out there that has this info, however I1 can't remember the link (I would like that also.)   D      I am currently running OVMS V7.3-1 and my main applications are. Cerner's Millennium, and Oracle 8.1.something.   thanks \   Dave.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:23:15 -0600 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) Subject: Re: CPU benchmarks 1 Message-ID: <04021316231596@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   ; > I am looking into getting some GS1280's for my production H > environments, currently running on racks of ES40's.    I am looking toH > find out what the relative horsepower is between the 6/667MHz cpu's inD > ES40's, and the 7/1.15GHz cpu's in GS1280.  (so I can estimate the > value of n in n-way). H >      I know there is a website out there that has this info, however I3 > can't remember the link (I would like that also.)  > F >      I am currently running OVMS V7.3-1 and my main applications are0 > Cerner's Millennium, and Oracle 8.1.something. > 
 > thanks \ >  > Dave.    Try this  ? http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/performance/perf_tps.html      J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:08:51 +0100 + From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> # Subject: Re: File transfers to a PC : Message-ID: <c0j7kf$1715p5$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>  9 "Kevin" <kcoughlin@theunionleader.com> schreef in bericht 5 news:ce501608.0402120856.2237dd@posting.google.com... F > You're not pulling this data through a serial port at 9600 baud, are > you? > H >  Yes, we are connecting through the serial port, but at 38400 baud. WeD > connect to DEC servers with RS232. The PC is also connected to theE > network in the usual way and uses TCPIP. It's my understanding that H > the 2 networks are separate, thats why the 2 connections on my PC. I'mH > not sure about TCP IP on the Vax. I think if it was available on ours,F > someone would have used it before this. Unfortunatly, out Vax expert5 > retired last year and I know very little about Vax.  > G >  Once you get the connectivity right, you could use ZIP on the VAX to F >  make the files smaller.  I assume they're text -- they should smash >  down by about 50%.  > A > Tell me more about zipping on the Vax. Some of the files we are @ > domnloading are almost 300,000 blocks and take over 7 hours toC > download to the PC. If we can compress the files, this would help G > quite a bit. Once the files are in the PC, the transfer time from one E > PC to another using ethernet by mapping the drives is minutes. Much 	 > faster.    Kevin,  D it depends on the VAX model whether it has built-in ethernet or not.I Basically everything that is about pc-sized has a coax ethernet connector K and a 15 pin AUI connector. For bigger (same as older) VAX systems ethernet 
 was optional. K Your LAN is probably UTP so you might as well buy a UTP transceiver and put  that on the AUI port. G The next thing is to get TCPIP on the VAX. if you have zero budget, try  CMU's IP stack. G A VAX 3100 or a VAX 4000 will transfer as much as 4 Mb/sec on ethernet.    Hans   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2004 12:59:39 -0800" From: thick_guy_9@yahoo.com (AMIT); Subject: how to determine processes started at a given time = Message-ID: <7e127df6.0402131259.3154d53e@posting.google.com>    hiF How can I find which processes were started after a given date & time, say 01-Feb-2004 13:00:00.00    Thanks in advance    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:37:17 +0000 (UTC) * From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)9 Subject: How to make higher resolution GIF or JPEG image? 0 Message-ID: <c0jg2d$crv$2@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>  C I am running IDL V5.4 on OpenVMS AXP V7.1-2.  I cannot upgrade to a C later version of IDL since it is no longer made for VMS (dumb move, E but that's another thread).  In fact, since IDL V5.4 doesn't generate B GIF files, I may have to go back to an earlier version to get that- capability.  But I'm getting ahead of myself.   D I want to generate a GIF file with a raster-like plot in it.  I knowE how to do this using the Z-buffer as a device (SET_PLOT,'Z').  All my E experience with GIF plots on other systems, though, show they display C with slightly jagged lines, as though made on a low-res plot (which B GIF is, I suppose).  I have seen, however, GIF plots made by other> packages that have a great look: smooth curves and letters, no jaggies.  F I know how to vary the size of the output GIF file: the SET_RESOLUTIONE keyword to the DEVICE command.  The problem is that this keyword only F changes the *size* of the resultant GIF file, not its resolution.   IfE I use this keyword, all I get is a large GIF file with jaggies.  When G viewed on a browser, that gives me a larger image.  I want the image to D stay the size that can be displayed on a normal browser window, just to have a higher resolution.  8 Does anyone know of an IDL solution that'd work in V5.4?  F If there's none, I can create an alternate format, such as PostScript,C that has the high resolution plots.  I'd then have to convert it to = GIF (simply because very few browsers, if any, interpret PS).   = Does anyone know of a way to convert PS to GIF?  I read about E Ghostscript and Ghostview, but the ftp site says they removed the GIF D generation capabilities from the package due to licensing problems. A Since we're going to be displaying these gif's on the web, that's 2 probably not a way for us to go.  Any other ideas?  D Lastly, a suggestion made here was to generate jpeg files instead of GIFs.  Several questions here:    D 1) Is this technically a good way to go, since we're displaying lineE plots rather than pictures?  I.e., could the "lossy" nature of jpeg's  algorithm hurt my plot? B 2) Since making jpeg's from IDL also involves the Z-buffer device,: won't this have the same limitations as making a GIF file?  ' For example of jpeg's with jaggies, see > http://uleis.umd.edu/~bleau/x.jpg       <-- default resolutionK http://uleis.umd.edu/~bleau/x2.jpg      <-- used SET_RESOLUTION=[1000,1500]   E In particular, take a look at the characters used to label the axes.  E Even at higher resolution they look bad.  And yes, I know jaggies are C usually an artifact of the monitor.  Only thing is, I've seen a GIF ? display on a monitor that *didn't* have jaggies, so I know it's 	 possible.    Thanks, all.   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.edu    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2004 16:14:35 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) = Subject: Re: How to make higher resolution GIF or JPEG image? 3 Message-ID: <+K9Vw8xz1lzL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <c0jg2d$crv$2@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>, bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau) writes: E > I am running IDL V5.4 on OpenVMS AXP V7.1-2.  I cannot upgrade to a E > later version of IDL since it is no longer made for VMS (dumb move,  > but that's another thread).   I    Agreed.  I think I know their last big VMS customer that moved to Sun.     Sigh.    ? > Does anyone know of a way to convert PS to GIF?  I read about G > Ghostscript and Ghostview, but the ftp site says they removed the GIF F > generation capabilities from the package due to licensing problems. C > Since we're going to be displaying these gif's on the web, that's 4 > probably not a way for us to go.  Any other ideas?  D    My first idea would be:  don't use gif files so you don't have to+    worry about those same licensing issues.    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 23:33:18 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)= Subject: Re: How to make higher resolution GIF or JPEG image? . Message-ID: <c0jmrt$elv$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau) writes in article <c0jg2d$crv$2@grapevine.wam.umd.edu> dated Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:37:17 +0000 (UTC):> >Does anyone know of a way to convert PS to GIF?  I read aboutF >Ghostscript and Ghostview, but the ftp site says they removed the GIFE >generation capabilities from the package due to licensing problems.  B >Since we're going to be displaying these gif's on the web, that's3 >probably not a way for us to go.  Any other ideas?   L If you can display it in an x-windows application, you can use XV for VMS toI capture the image and save it as GIF.  XV was released when the owners of & the GIF patents were still neing nice.  E >Lastly, a suggestion made here was to generate jpeg files instead of   >GIFs.  Several questions here:  > E >1) Is this technically a good way to go, since we're displaying line F >plots rather than pictures?  I.e., could the "lossy" nature of jpeg's >algorithm hurt my plot?  F Yes, it could.  In fact, if you blow up your jpgs you will see lots of7 non-black (but different shades of dark grey) pixels.     C >2) Since making jpeg's from IDL also involves the Z-buffer device, ; >won't this have the same limitations as making a GIF file?  > ( >For example of jpeg's with jaggies, see? >http://uleis.umd.edu/~bleau/x.jpg       <-- default resolution L >http://uleis.umd.edu/~bleau/x2.jpg      <-- used SET_RESOLUTION=[1000,1500] > F >In particular, take a look at the characters used to label the axes. F >Even at higher resolution they look bad.  And yes, I know jaggies areD >usually an artifact of the monitor.  Only thing is, I've seen a GIF@ >display on a monitor that *didn't* have jaggies, so I know it's
 >possible.  I It looks like you're using a stroke font on a raster device, which should G only be done if the raster is *much* bigger than you need.  For display , purposes I'd suggest a 14-point raster font.  9 The line-drawing algorithm you're using appears to be the J "1-pixel-max-thickness" one (sorry I don't know the technical name).  It'sI bad because diagonal lines have 0.707 colored pixels per pixel of length, G compared to horizontal and vertical ones which have 1 colored pixel per E pixel of length.  I came up with a better one back in the 1980s which J colored in a swath which was 1 (or n) pixel(s) wide.  If the center of theI pixel was within half a pixel of the centerline, it gets lit.  Making all 9 the lines uniform thickness does wonders for readability.   0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 03:14:14 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> A Subject: Re: HP/Intel Itanium is dead, long life to HP/AMD Athlon F Message-ID: <aiXWb.25825$ha2.189@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote: > Keith Parris wrote:  >>0 >> Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote in message3 >> news:<4027d2e5$0$28923$626a14ce@news.free.fr>... D >>> The paper sez that HP may cancel all developments on iA64 and go >>> AMD/Athlon 64. >>G >> This article is just Yet Another Speculation that Intel will produce F >> an x86-48 compatible chip, thus trading roles with AMD and becoming >> an  >> AMD clone-maker.  >>E >> As even "The Register" puts it, "Would Intel want to admit that it F >> thinks a rival's technology is the best way forward?  We doubt it."4 >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/35201.html >> >> I doubt it, too.  > F > Likewise, I dount they'll admit it - verbally. It takes a MIGHTY bigE > person to admit a mistake, and I haven't exactly seen any giants in  > corporate America lately...   8 They usually wind up admitting it in a plea bargain. ;-)   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2004 19:58:03 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)( Subject: Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0402131958.67811c18@posting.google.com>   k "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<f4mdndltd5ws5IXd4p2dnA@comcast.com>...   H > The biggest difference between government and organized crime is that . > organized crime is usually better organized!  E You mean that organized crime has a space program; a flag; elections; F a post office; treasury bonds; social programs; army, navy, air force;D monuments; physical, human, and community development programs; paysB interest on the national debt; resides on the UN Security Council;D holidays; social security; medicare; federal reserve bank; and saved? the world from facism in world wars? WOW! Tell us about it! ;-)    [...]   ? Speaking of govt organization, I guarantee you that if you park A illegally overnight in my neighborhood or anytime at all at U. of ? Maryland, College Park, you are nearly 100% guaranteed to get a F ticket!!! (OK, U. of MD is a university, not govt, but it is a *state* school.)   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2004 14:14:38 -08001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)   Subject: In case you do not know= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0402131414.3e7c0f4e@posting.google.com>    Dear Newsgroup,   E As you may or may not know we have OpenVMS Pearls this information is F sent to customers, partners, consultants, VMS SIG, Boot Camp folks andE HP folks (Ambassadors, some Field Mgrs, some VP's, engineering).  The D purpose of this is to spread good VMS news.  Many times these are HPC internal only since we do not have ok to distribute the information D externally.  If you want to you can call it internal advertising butF it helps to keep folks informed.  If you would like to send me a pearlE please feel free, just let me know if it is Internal to HP only or if F the message can go external.  Ken Farmer usually posts them on his web
 site as well.   F Also I send out an email called updated VMS information, I have postedD an example, if you would like to send me something please feel free.    Thanks so much and warm regards,   Sue    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:26:23 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> Y Subject: Re: Intel and Microsoft provide higher 32-bit applications performance on Itaniu 0 Message-ID: <c0i8og$maq$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rick Jones wrote: R > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >>Rick Jones wrote:  >>* >>>What is the definition of "large" here? >  > E >>~70% but Solaris 9 isn't required for any SPARC platform so I don't B >>expect the gap to close completely until there are new platforms >>that only support Solaris 9. >  > C >>>And how many of those 12000 applications have had their ISVs run  >>>through that test harness?  >  > G >>I have no idea, one of the two most important Apps used by my current F >>client has. The other is developed on Solaris so they probably arn't( >>so interested in the Binary Guarantee. >  > F > Presumeably the ~70% supported on Solaris 9 would include those that* > have run through the test harness right? >   B No we wouldn't record them unless they are specifically qualified.   regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:34:11 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! / Message-ID: <TE9Xb.395$r21.24@news.cpqcorp.net>   P Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: > Rick Jones wrote: A >> But much slower - again, perhaps depending on the benchmark :) 6 > About the same speed as a more expensive LV Itanium. > :-)   D Well, if we have indeed now managed to get to discussing LV Itanium2% performance versus UltraSPARC IIIi :)   D If you do a search of www.hp.com for "specweb99_ssl rx1600" you willA find that HP have publicly announced 1278 SPECweb99_ssl on the 1U E rx1600 using the 1.0 GHz LV Itanium2 processor. This URL may take you  there directly:    http://search.hp.com/gwuseng/redirect.html?type=REG&qt=specweb99_ssl+rx1600&url=http%3A//www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/2004/standardization/na_serveradvisory.pdf&pos=1   / I suspect there may be a better link somewhere.   F That compares to the 832 SPECweb99_SSL on the 1.0 GHz, crypto hardwareB accelerated, 2U V240 and 1022 for the 1.28GHz version of the same.  D (SPECweb being a trademark of SPEC and those V240 numbers taken from/ www.spec.org as of Feb 13, 2004 etc etc etc...)   B I don't think that a 25% performance difference is "about the sameD speed."  I think that "about the same speed" would be something likeG within 5% or perhaps less depending on the variability of the benchmark  in question.  E As for pricing, before we descend to that level of the rathole, since C SPEC doesn't define pricing for SPECweb99_SSL, we'll have to decide @ what needs to be priced before we can address that aspect of ourD banter :) We'll also have to specify the URL's from which we get the@ pricing information so the folks watching our back-and-forth can check-up on us.   
 rick jones --  G oxymoron n, commuter in a gas-guzzling luxury SUV with an American flag F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2004 11:35:34 -0800+ From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) . Subject: Re: Making images of RL02's under VMS= Message-ID: <bec993c8.0402131135.2b80e34b@posting.google.com>   o "Dutchman2000" <icelord2006@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<cd5Xb.6627$PY.5731@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com>...  > Hello- > L > I have several unknown RL02 platters that I would like to convert to ImageE > files that I can use under SIMH and hopefully determine the format.  >  > How can I do this using VMS? > I > I can mount the paks as FOREIGN but I'm not sure what to do after that.  >  > Anyone here know?    MOUNT/FOR DLA0:  COPY DLA0: IMAGE.DSK DISMO DLA0:   J Add a /LOG to the COPY if you want to explicitly see that all 20480 blocks were copied.  D If there are bad blocks, COPY will die when it hits them.  There areF workarounds but it depends on the underlying filesystem (ODS-1, RT-11, RSTS, etc.) to automate them.    Tim.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:01:05 +0100 + From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> ( Subject: Re: Microvax vs Vaxstation 3100: Message-ID: <c0j75s$17kqjj$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>  @ "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> schreef in bericht* news:S5ydnR7qp4Y6rbHdRVn-vg@comcast.com... > C > As I observed here, not long ago, DEC designed every machine from C > scratch!  They never reused a case, power supply, memory board or / > anything else if they could design a new one.  > J > So even if the outside looks similar it's likely to be very different onJ > the inside.  As I recall, the resemblance between the Micro VAX 3100 andI > the VAXStation 3100 were only skin deep and not even that if you looked  > at the rear panel. > K It is not that bad ;-) The 8200/8250/8300/8350 and the VAXstation 8000 were L very close relatives. The same applies for the 8500/8530/8550/8700/8800 (theG ones with the PRO console). The VAXstation 4000 series are related, the < 60/90/90A/96 even use the same memory and video controllers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:01:51 +0100 + From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> ( Subject: Re: Microvax vs Vaxstation 3100: Message-ID: <c0j77a$1828sc$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>  F "Daryl Jones" <jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net> schreef in bericht7 news:8a646952.0402130958.4bb75050@posting.google.com...  > Dear JF Mezei: > F > After reading the other responses, I think could add some clarity to > your confusion.  > ? > The MicroVAX and VAXstation were created using the MicroVAX I @ > processor. What is the difference? The MicroVAX is the low endE > VAXserver originally configured using the Qbus. The VAXstation is a H > graphics workstation (VWS). The processors have changed over time with> > the CVAX, Rigel, Mariah, and the NVAX chip sets. There was a: > VAXstation 8000, which processor was used? I don't know. > 
 > Regards,
 > Daryl Jones  > 6 IIRC the VAXstation 8000 was based on the 8350 series.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:40:36 +0000 ) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> ( Subject: Re: Microvax vs Vaxstation 3100> Message-ID: <wY0Xb.4718$vo1.887@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net>   Richard B. Gilbert wrote: D > As I observed here, not long ago, DEC designed every machine from D > scratch!  They never reused a case, power supply, memory board or / > anything else if they could design a new one.   : But the VAXstation 3100 M76 reused a case from the M30/M38A (I suppose I'd have to check part numbers to be absolutely sure). > And the MicroVAX 3100 series seemed to keep the same two cases; (perhaps with a few teaks, again I'd have to check) all the @ way up to the uVAX 3100-96. The uVAX 3100-98 reused one or other! of the then-current DEC PC cases.   < The VS3100-76 was a VS3100-38 with a Rigel chip squeezed in.  < The later NVAX-based VAX 4000 systems still seemed to need a= bus converter to get down to a CDAL (CVAX system bus) because . of the reuse of various chips and peripherals.  5 So while there were plenty of new designs, they often - leveraged previous designs where appropriate.V   AntonioF   --   ---------------u- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgd   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:24:09 -0500u3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>H( Subject: Re: Microvax vs Vaxstation 31000 Message-ID: <SICdncC0uYYG97DdRVn-ug@comcast.com>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------0506010206040408020605049 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bits  I But there were roughly 16 different variants of the RZ26 disk.  Most, if  H not all, used different kinds of mounting hardware!  Would a VAXstation * 4000 Model 90 fit in a 4000 Model 60 case?       Hans Vlems wrote:t  A >"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> schreef in bericht + >news:S5ydnR7qp4Y6rbHdRVn-vg@comcast.com...v >    >sC >>As I observed here, not long ago, DEC designed every machine fromaC >>scratch!  They never reused a case, power supply, memory board orh/ >>anything else if they could design a new one.  >>J >>So even if the outside looks similar it's likely to be very different onJ >>the inside.  As I recall, the resemblance between the Micro VAX 3100 andI >>the VAXStation 3100 were only skin deep and not even that if you looked  >>at the rear panel. >> >>     >>L >It is not that bad ;-) The 8200/8250/8300/8350 and the VAXstation 8000 wereM >very close relatives. The same applies for the 8500/8530/8550/8700/8800 (the H >ones with the PRO console). The VAXstation 4000 series are related, the= >60/90/90A/96 even use the same memory and video controllers.s >y >. >  n >.  & --------------050601020604040802060504) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciie Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitS  ? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">L <html> <head>I   <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">t   <title></title>  </head>.' <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">.J But there were roughly 16 different variants of the RZ26 disk.&nbsp; Most,D if not all, used different kinds of mounting hardware!&nbsp; Would a9 VAXstation 4000 Model 90 fit in a 4000 Model 60 case?<br>n <br> <br> <br> Hans Vlems wrote:<br>b <blockquote type="cite"r8  cite="midc0j75s$17kqjj$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de">   <pre wrap="">"Richard B. Gilbert" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rgilbert88@comcast.net">&lt;rgilbert88@comcast.net&gt;</a> schreef in berichtf~ <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:S5ydnR7qp4Y6rbHdRVn-vg@comcast.com">news:S5ydnR7qp4Y6rbHdRVn-vg@comcast.com</a>...   </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">R     <pre wrap="">As I observed here, not long ago, DEC designed every machine fromA scratch!  They never reused a case, power supply, memory board or-- anything else if they could design a new one.:  H So even if the outside looks similar it's likely to be very different onH the inside.  As I recall, the resemblance between the Micro VAX 3100 andG the VAXStation 3100 were only skin deep and not even that if you lookedl at the rear panel.  
     </pre>   </blockquote>ma   <pre wrap=""><!---->It is not that bad ;-) The 8200/8250/8300/8350 and the VAXstation 8000 weregL very close relatives. The same applies for the 8500/8530/8550/8700/8800 (theG ones with the PRO console). The VAXstation 4000 series are related, theu< 60/90/90A/96 even use the same memory and video controllers.       </pre>
 </blockquote>o </body>g </html>f  ( --------------050601020604040802060504--   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2004 12:15:44 -0800& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)2 Subject: Mozilla for OpenVMS Alpha V1.5 available!= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0402131215.5041d87c@posting.google.com>   A Just saw the announcement that Mozilla M1.5 has been released for,A Alpha.  Thanks, VMS folks!  Its been a long wait, but its finallyc here!h   Rich Jordana   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:16:11 GMTa, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>6 Subject: Re: Mozilla for OpenVMS Alpha V1.5 available!0 Message-ID: <L0cXb.422$Jy1.247@news.cpqcorp.net>  E I just pulled the kit, run the .exe and product installed the pcsi it  creates and it worked fine.    what is your exact error?y     --  K ---------------------------------------------------------------------------o7 Warren Sander                   WW E-Marketing (HP.COM)nB Hewlett-Packard Company         Work:  warren.sander@remove.hp.comK 200 Forest Street MR01-3/K8     Personal: sander.ma.ultranet@remove.rcn.com.. Marlboro, MA 01752              (508) 467-48755    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myselfp*          Read http://www.hp.com/go/openvmsK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------l    C "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in messagee* news:newscache$46l1th$yw2$1@news.sil.at...? > In article <cc5619f2.0402131215.5041d87c@posting.google.com>,-( jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes:D > >Just saw the announcement that Mozilla M1.5 has been released forD > >Alpha.  Thanks, VMS folks!  Its been a long wait, but its finally > >here! >zK > It is unfortunately not installable. Hopefully it gets fixed real soon...a >  > -- w > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER@' > Network and OpenVMS system specialistu > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 23:13:07 GMTD, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>6 Subject: Re: Mozilla for OpenVMS Alpha V1.5 available!0 Message-ID: <7ScXb.427$Bz1.283@news.cpqcorp.net>   did you remember to do a$ $@sys$common:[mozilla]install remove and  $@sys$common:[mozilla]installa  J after the install (or better the 'remove', install the new version, the do the @install    C "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in messaget* news:newscache$46l1th$yw2$1@news.sil.at...? > In article <cc5619f2.0402131215.5041d87c@posting.google.com>, ( jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes:D > >Just saw the announcement that Mozilla M1.5 has been released forD > >Alpha.  Thanks, VMS folks!  Its been a long wait, but its finally > >here! > K > It is unfortunately not installable. Hopefully it gets fixed real soon...l >( > -- s > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER ' > Network and OpenVMS system specialistt > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 00:06:24 +0000 (UTC)a6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)6 Subject: Re: Mozilla for OpenVMS Alpha V1.5 available!0 Message-ID: <newscache$28s1th$iy8$1@news.sil.at>  _ In article <L0cXb.422$Jy1.247@news.cpqcorp.net>, "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> writes: F >I just pulled the kit, run the .exe and product installed the pcsi it >creates and it worked fine. >a >what is your exact error?  B Sorry, for the exact message you have to wait til monday at least.0 It was some kind of "kit not properly packaged"   K I did an upgrade from D1.5 to M1.5 on my PWS500au at work (V7.3-2 with both 8 ECOs) this early afternoon and failed. Hence my posting.  C I did a successful upgrade from D1.5 to M1.5 on my PWS433au at homerI (V7.3-2 without ECOs) this night however (but a separate/later download)..  @ I will (try to) upgrade some more stations over the next days...  K In both cases I did an "@sys$common:[mozilla]install remove" before, thoughoE I never had any problems so far with doing it after the installation.    -- s Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER:% Network and OpenVMS system specialistM E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:12:03 GMTh" From: tutor_removespam_@cfl.rr.comI Subject: Re: obj/olb from vax. need to create source and migrate to alpha,8 Message-ID: <0u7r20tsf6dvfsok6lej8ud0ufb6fka3tm@4ax.com>   Hi Bob,W
    Thank you!nB    I emailed our client, and found out he has three 3100's sittingE around. Thus, we should be able to get into them (hopefully they haveo( not upgraded the versions ie: 3.0(?)....  - I promise to keep you posted on our success !s   Jerrolde  % On 13 Feb 2004 16:10:35 -0600, wrote:C  ^ >In article <1u7q20hl12qtb53mifeic3q4ept9hl93hi@4ax.com>, tutor_removespam_@cfl.rr.com writes: > H >> Is there a way to get the source (either in COBOL or C) using the OBJ$ >> file on VAX(32-Bit architecture)? >PH >   Yes.  Prior to VMS 3.0 debug records in the object file were used byH >   the compiler to store source.  If your object file was compiled longH >   ago with the /debug qualifier, the source is in there.  At about 3.0D >   the debugger simply let compilers store a record pointing to the >   source file. >aC >   But if it is that old, it probably wasn't written in C.  COBOL,1) >   Macro, Pascal, or Fortran, but not C.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:04:00 -06005@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Feelings.6 Message-ID: <402C4CB0.F4D6F7A5@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Sue Skonetski wrote: > E > Forgive the spelling mistakes, but since we are family I figure you  > will understand. > F > Since I can not officially recommend anything, I am doing this on my* > own time. How about these for some ideas > E > Before I start, please do not think that I am throwing stones but IoD > feel very strongly about this.  And it all comes down to one word.D > FIGHT - not this news group, not VMS, fight the folks that say its8 > old, legacy.  Fight the people that forget to mention.   *EXASPERATED SIGH*  H Um, Sue? We're talking about your bosses, all the way up to the Queen of Coiffure herself.R   >  Fight partners - > that don't want to port their application. 4  B How? Buy the competing product? How can we buy what doesn't exist?   > Fight reps that forget toX > sell it. c  0 Again, that's your bosses' job - we have no say.  > > You are the customers, you have the money you make the call.  E Please post that on every billboard between the executive offices and0E the airport, the train station, the bedroom communities, ... on every C hallway, washroom, cubicle, conference room table, the doors of thed boardroom (both sides), ...o  2 >  Nothing will change unless you make it happen.   F The customers ARE "making it happen" - they're defecting IN DROVES!!!!   > Fight where it countsa: > - saying "where is the advertisment" is a waste of time,  @ Then what SHOULD we say? Get in Carly's face and scream like Sam5 Kinnison, "ADVERTISE, YOU DUMB MOTHER-(CENSORED)!!!!"c   > saying "ifF > only" is a waste of breath, saying "if it were like in the DEC days" > is a waste of heart.  G Well, that I can agree with. That was then, this now ... while we stillj! have something left to fight for.a  A > Thought of this many times - VMS works so well, it is taken for @ > granted, forgotten, obviously we do not want the stability and1 > security to change.  But we need to be obvious.d   How about a nude protest?o  A > When VMS is not mentioned in articles, write a note asking why.  > G > If you have anyone VP and above that needs a conversation with our VP  > send me email.  2 E-mail me privately - you have my address at work.  H > If you have a web site running on VMS a ticker that says this is a VMSB > web site and it has been attacked 2000 times with no infestation > H > Evertime someone uses a VMS machine in side your company and automatedH > response that says, this service was bought to you by your friendly IT% > staff running OpenVMS for XXXX days   A Well, I have a cluster at work that was established 6-Apr-2003...   E > To steel a phrase OpenVMS just keeps on going and going on the wallcB > with the day.  Sort of like the 30 Million hamburgers sold sign. > / > Send the TCO white paper to everyone you know J > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/whitepapers/tco_clusters/TCO_WP_Feb04.  2 But, NO ONE *GIVES* a flying (bleep) about TCO!!!   H Doesn't anyone within OpenVMS have to do budgets? Ever run into "stickerF shock" (i.e., cost-to-acquire becomes the primary obstacle)? Think the "real world" is any different?  D > And if you are in one of the major areas that we focus on a sayingH > something like  We know something our competiton does not, do you know7 > what that is?  OpenVMS when faliure is not an option.a  F If you can assure that there will be no problems using the trademarks,+ I'll pay for ad space out of my own pocket!    -- < David J. Dachtera. dba DJE Systems: http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/g   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Feb 2004 22:57:25 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)I Subject: Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study : Message-ID: <c0jkol$17ps8u$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  3 In article <ONV$tZCdrfXD@eisner.encompasserve.org>,P> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:c > In article <zA9Xb.27339$yE5.102621@attbi_s54>, glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes:P >> m= >> Hacking rates are not so much related to how good a systeml( >> is, but how much of a target it is.   >  >    Both are relavent.  >  >> I still remember that= >> we were still running SunOS machines when Solaris became ao >> hacking target. > H >    I still remember we were running VMS when nobody outside of BerkelyA >    ran UNIX.  So what do you think hackers were targeting then?e  A Considering that there was no way to get to the machine remotely?r  D Also, even well into the early years of Unix the term "hacker" had aA totally different meaning and just like the times when we used to B leave our front doors unlocked (and in some cases, even wide open)B so too for the computer community.  There was a time when machinesC didn't even have passwords set becuase the users trusted each othereC to not "trespass".  By the time societal norms changed the InterneteF was still just a late night dream (or was it nightmare?) of Vint Cerf.E VMS has never had the presence of Unix in the eyes of hackers.  ThereoC are other OSes that fall into the same catagory.  Never been hacked C but probably could be if anyone really cared.  Primos, RSX and RSTS  to name just a few.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   g   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2004 15:57:00 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)T Subject: Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... again!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0402131557.6fc25350@posting.google.com>   f glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:<zA9Xb.27339$yE5.102621@attbi_s54>...& > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy ; > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message .. > news:<c0i9ip$mmv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >  > (snip) > B > > so you provide more bs?  The fact of this study is that VMS isC > > "UNHACKABLE" and slowaris and aix are not ... look at the virus ? > > numbers ... all you continue to spout is old gs320 platformdC > > numbers, but you say nothing about OpenVMS itself which is what > > > the report is really about ... weither VMS is running on aA > > gs1280 or soon to be itanium, it is the most secure, reliable @ > > platform on the planet ... numbers AND customers don't lie, 1 > > only marketing employees ... deal with it ...  > < > Hacking rates are not so much related to how good a system= > is, but how much of a target it is.   I still remember thatw< > we were still running SunOS machines when Solaris became a= > hacking target.  SunOS had more known bugs, but Solaris wasy< > popular for running web servers.  Since that time, Windows> > NT and 2000 became popular web server OS, and joined Solaris > as a hacking target. > ? > If VMS can approach Solaris and Win2K in terms of running webiA > servers, then I am sure it will also increase as a hack target.i > 	 > -- glenh > 	 > -- glens   been there ... done that ...  * http://www.pointsecure.com/Defconwhite.pdf   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2004 19:01:03 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)T Subject: Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... again!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0402131901.2328f6c6@posting.google.com>u   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c0i9ip$mmv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...e > Keith Parris wrote:  > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c0abfl$qpj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > > > > >>The TechFoolish report you refer to was released some time: > >>ago, its is complete tosh, it has been comprehensively; > >>trashed at least twice but still you see fit to drag itn  > >>up again for another airing. > >  > > H > > I guess you must not have actually looked at the document.  If you'd; > > even read the cover page, you'd have seen the new date.m > > C > > It's a new version, based on fresh interviews.  Methodology has-G > > changed a bit, as well.  Downtime due to viruses and worms has beenT > > added for this round, also.r > >  > D > Its based on the same methodology, warming over BS doesn't make it > any more credible does it. > - > You need to face a few uncomfortable facts.t > > > OpenVMS doesn't scale to more than 16 CPU's reliably, so the< > likelyhood of the TechFoolish study finding enough OpenVMS9 > customers using fully configured GS320/GS1280's running  > OpenVMS is vanishingly low.- > 	 > Regards@ > Andrew Harrison-  ? it doesn't?  Here is a 32 cpu gs1280 setting a world record ...r  A http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=04/01/09/3349335R   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:29:35 GMTx0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... again! ... n. Message-ID: <zA9Xb.27339$yE5.102621@attbi_s54>  %  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy e9 <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message o, news:<c0i9ip$mmv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...   (snip)  @ > so you provide more bs?  The fact of this study is that VMS isA > "UNHACKABLE" and slowaris and aix are not ... look at the virus = > numbers ... all you continue to spout is old gs320 platformaA > numbers, but you say nothing about OpenVMS itself which is whati< > the report is really about ... weither VMS is running on a? > gs1280 or soon to be itanium, it is the most secure, reliable > > platform on the planet ... numbers AND customers don't lie, / > only marketing employees ... deal with it ...-  : Hacking rates are not so much related to how good a system; is, but how much of a target it is.   I still remember that : we were still running SunOS machines when Solaris became a; hacking target.  SunOS had more known bugs, but Solaris wasm: popular for running web servers.  Since that time, Windows< NT and 2000 became popular web server OS, and joined Solaris as a hacking target.  = If VMS can approach Solaris and Win2K in terms of running webd? servers, then I am sure it will also increase as a hack target.o   -- gleni   -- glen    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:40:24 +0000hO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... again! ... h0 Message-ID: <c0i9ip$mmv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Keith Parris wrote:  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c0abfl$qpj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > < >>The TechFoolish report you refer to was released some time8 >>ago, its is complete tosh, it has been comprehensively9 >>trashed at least twice but still you see fit to drag it  >>up again for another airing. >  > F > I guess you must not have actually looked at the document.  If you'd9 > even read the cover page, you'd have seen the new date.t > A > It's a new version, based on fresh interviews.  Methodology has E > changed a bit, as well.  Downtime due to viruses and worms has been. > added for this round, also.d >   B Its based on the same methodology, warming over BS doesn't make it any more credible does it.  + You need to face a few uncomfortable facts.s  < OpenVMS doesn't scale to more than 16 CPU's reliably, so the: likelyhood of the TechFoolish study finding enough OpenVMS7 customers using fully configured GS320/GS1280's runningo OpenVMS is vanishingly low.i  < So any TCO comparisions of fully configured GS320's and even@ GS1280's vs fully configured F15K/p690 ignores that very obvious> fact that in reality the fully configured GS's running OpenVMS@ don't exist. Sun and IBM can however provide plenty of customers= who have fully configured F15K/P690's the customer I work forr# has 10 fully or nearly full F15K's.   @ You then get to the next obvious issue which is that the bulk of= the study (if it was that) could only be for GS320's you needv< to have at least 1 years experience of the system before you@ could reliably answer TCO study questions on it and the GS320 is8 3-4x slower than the F15K and 2-3x slower than the P690.  < As I said earlier warmed over BS is still BS. Or put another way BS in BS out.c     Regardsn Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2004 13:59:47 -05003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> 3 Subject: Re: OT: Windows has become open source :-)0. Message-ID: <mddn07mpzz0.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  , JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:  7 > However, this makes for interesting copyright issues.9   No, it doesn't.t  G > If a company's IT infrastruicture is so insecure that its copyrighted H > materials can flow out of the vaults so easily, can the company really > claim a copyright on it?  G Of course it can--otherwise there would be no lending libraries for any  form of copyrighted material.i  H The issue is not with *copyright*, but with *trade secrets*, an entirely, separate issue in intellectual property law.   -- i. Rich Alderson					    | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |< news@alderson.users.panix.com			    | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |7 			 --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |d   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:16:10 -0500e* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>3 Subject: Re: OT: Windows has become open source :-)t) Message-ID: <402D5AA4.700254FC@istop.com>p   Bob Koehler wrote:I >   I hope not.  A hacker once get a copy of the VMS source.  Even though:J >   that doens't expose lots of security holes (because they aren't there), >   I hope DEC didn't loose copyright on it.    L It isn't the problem os someone gaining access to the source, it is the factI that Microsoft has not taken appropriate steps to protect their own trade 	 secrets.    K If you knowingly put your trade secrets on a platform that is known to havesL more security holes than swiss cheese, have you taken appropriate steps show3 you do not intend this to fall into public domain ?;   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:23:48 +0000o) From: Witchy <news@sruasonidyranib.co.uk>t= Subject: Re: php_value modifier in CSWS_PHP 1.2 and CSWS 1.3?i8 Message-ID: <s0cq209fggld1j67apc477ink9orgrjnta@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:35:44 GMT, "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com>  wrote:  7 >"Witchy" <news@sruasonidyranib.co.uk> wrote in messagey3 >news:p6fp20p89cjcnl0v2d518v5mar5ptt9qum@4ax.com...n >> Hi folks, >>F >> Does anyone know if this modifier is supported in CSWS_PHP 1.2? TheD >> version of PHP it's based on (4.3.2?) supports it 'cos that's the6 >> version I'm running on my existing Linux webserver. >bK >Yes, but it only works with directives that can be modified by PHP_INI_ALLj> >or PHP_INI_PERDIR (http://us4.php.net/configuration.changes). >0? >For example, add the following line to your mod_php.conf file:  >   >PHP_VALUE max_execution_time 60 >r: >Restart Apache, then look at http://.../php/php_info.php.   Hi Rick,  C Thanks for that - I'm trying to use the include_path modifier whichi  according to the ini_set() page:  1 http://uk2.php.net/manual/en/function.ini-set.phpn  F is part of PHP_INI_ALL so I should be able to use it in my httpd.conf?B It's for virtual hosts so the 2 sites that are virtual can use theE same file construct and layout but different header/footer files etc.f  C At the minute when I have the php_value line within the appropriates9 virtual host declaration apache$$server.log reports this:w  9 Syntax error on line 879 of /apache$root/conf/httpd.conf: @ Invalid command 'php_value', perhaps mis-spelled or defined by a0 module not included in the server configuration.   Line 879 is:   php_value include_path7 .:/:/dka100/www/bd2003/includes/:/includes:/www/bd2003/0  C which is lifted directly out of my linux httpd.conf and changed fors VMS apache file syntax.R  4 Is there a non-critical VMS patch I need to install?   Thanks for the help!   -- cheers,c   witchy/binarydinosaurs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 21:19:10 -0600_@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>> Subject: Re: puzzle involving ALLOCLASS and SET VOLUME/REBUILD6 Message-ID: <402C422E.FEECADDA@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:t > L > SYSMAN> do pipe sh sys/noproc ; write sys$output f$getsyi("hw_name") ; SET! > VOLUME/REBUILD/LOG DISK$SCRATCHt4 > %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node DANEELK > OpenVMS V7.3  on node DANEEL  13-FEB-2004 00:01:55.57  Uptime  3 15:37:37> > VAX 4000-100At+ > %SET-I-MODIFIED, _ELIJAH$DKA200: modifieda4 > %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node GLADIAM > OpenVMS V7.3-1  on node GLADIA  13-FEB-2004 00:02:02.89  Uptime  3 15:37:27e > DEC 3000 - M300LX ( > %SET-I-MODIFIED, _$44$DKA200: modified4 > %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node ELIJAHK > OpenVMS V7.3  on node ELIJAH  13-FEB-2004 00:02:03.78  Uptime  3 15:38:09  > VAXstation 4000-60+ > %SET-I-MODIFIED, _ELIJAH$DKA200: modified:	 > SYSMAN>a > H > Why is the disk sometimes referred to with the ALLOCLASS and sometimesI > with the NODE name?  Is it a VAX/ALPHA or a 7.3/7.3-1 thing?  (There isoD > no 7.3-1 VAX, and I never ran 7.3 ALPHA.)  I only have a couple ofE > non-shadowed disks; shadowed ones show up as _DSAxxx: on all nodes.d > B > The behaviour is the same regardless of what machine the disk is > physically connected to.  G Well, simply, if ALLOCLASS or Port Allocation Class is 0, the prefix iso< "nodename$". If non-zero, the device name prefix is "$nnn$".   -- u David J. Dachtera7 dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:50:02 GMT00 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>1 Subject: Re: Reversed links for joining Encompass - Message-ID: <KT9Xb.29359$uV3.52381@attbi_s51>e   Bob Koehler wrote:  G >    A fellow I know is trying to join Encompass as an associate as the2- >    first step in getting hobbyist licenses.. > D >    Currently on www.encompassus.org when one follows the links forC >    "join today" for an associate member, one comes to the form att? >    https://secure2.sba.com/encompass/memberApp/associate.cfm k > D >    This form requires it's first field "Associate ID".  As a newly8 >    joining member he doesn't have an associate ID yet.  6 I put in 123456 and hoped someone would figure it out.  > Maybe that is why mine hasn't gone through yet, though I don't think the 10 days are up yet.h   -- glen    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2004 11:43:32 -0800+ From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)t0 Subject: Re: Searching for VMS 5.x documentation= Message-ID: <bec993c8.0402131143.1d1f50a8@posting.google.com>m  ] "Seghers Bruno" <tips@euronet.be> wrote in message news:<c0h06c$nmb$1@news.worldonline.be>...lJ > Somebody has told me that there is a beautifull explanation of how works& > memory in the VMS 5.x documentation. > M > He things that it's in the "Tuning" book, and it's a comparison between VMSl4 > memory mechanism and the management of a warehouse  I I always liked the discussion in _VAX/VMS Internals and Data Structures_.e> Chapters 14 (Memory Management Data Structures) and 15 (Paging; Dynamics) and 16 (Memory Management System Services) and 17 D (Swapping) are all directly relevant.  There are many other sections1 that are closely related (booting in particular).M  B And the Sir Arthur Conan Doyle quote at the start of chapter 15 is the best of them all.    Tim.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 06:09:20 GMTn( From: Rob Brown <mynamenospaces@rbcs.ca>0 Subject: Re: Searching for VMS 5.x documentationK Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.53.0402122308020.-881919@mosquito.ed.shawcable.net>b  ) On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Seghers Bruno wrote:T  A > ...  and it's a comparison between VMS memory mechanism and theS > management of a warehouset  4 I never heard of it being in the docs, but how about| <http://eisner.encompasserve.org/htbin/dnqindexform?TEXT=R23945136-23948308-dra4%3A%5Bdecuserve_extracts%5Dvms.full%3B1007>?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:16:25 GMTd  From: Rob Brown <myname@rbcs.ca>0 Subject: Re: Searching for VMS 5.x documentationN Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.53.0402132115340.-118894575@mosquito.ed.shawcable.net>   ff  & On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Paul Sture wrote:  ~ > <http://eisner.encompasserve.org/htbin/dnqindexform?TEXT=R23945136-23948308-dra4%3A%5Bdecuserve_extracts%5Dvms.full%3B1007>? >i > That gives mei >r > ERROR 403  >i > Unable to fopen() database.c >e   Me too.  :-(  Must be a trick.  I So go to <http://www.encompasserve.org>, select "search the conferences",t and search for "crate".    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2004 13:57:53 -08001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)0Y Subject: Some updated VMS information - I sent this to my email distribution lists earliet= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0402131357.4bec0c74@posting.google.com>o   Dear Folks,-  A Many of you remember the story about the VAX chips that were mader= available in Russia, I thought you might like the following -aD http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/pages/russians.html thankfully= this issue no longer exists and we have some really wonderfult3 customers and friends in Russia - thanks to Marc S.5  E Also many of you are aware of http://OpenVMS.org, there is a VMS book ; survey running please take 5 minutes to offer your opinion.n  D If you know Hunter Goatly from Process he has a VMS resource page at http://www.process.com/openvms/e  7 The Tech Wise White paper is on the OpenVMS Web Page atnK http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/whitepapers/tco_clusters/TCO_WP_Feb04.pdfh the overall white page url ist. http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/whitepapers/  A The OpenView announcement from earlier this week has been updated? (yesterday's email) the url is: 8 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/system_management.html  A Also I have received several comments about the OpenVMS technical F journal not having one large file containing all the articles for downF load.  We have had some issues and Warren is working on this, we stillF may not have all the articles in one document.  The reason for this isC incompatible versions so some of the software used for graphics. Toh3 date we have had over 8,000 views since last week.  4 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/index.html  = Progress is coming along very nicely for the OpenVMS Advancedp= Technical Boot Camp, scheduled for the week of May 16-21 withnB registration opening on March 15.  Audience will be limited to 200 people.   F Please remember if you have any interesting VMS related information orA announcements or you see VMS mentioned in the press please let mes know.   ( Thank you for all your help and support.  0 Reminder - Monday is a holiday for HP in the US.   Have a great weekend.d  
 Warm Regards,  Suet   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:04:36 +0000 (UTC)i, From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)G Subject: Re: SYS$STARTUP:MMOV$STARTUP.COM -- lacks something (priority)n. Message-ID: <c0jakk$8kb$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  m sms@antinode.org writes in article <04021216570566@antinode.org> dated Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:57:05 -0600 (CST):m- >From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)HI >> Actually the problem is recurring in a different way since I moved thenG >> music library to a Linux disk and now play it over NFS.  Thinking of-L >> copying to a scratch directory on VMS before playing... if I can't figureD >> out how to raise the priority of the NFS-serving Linux processes. >1F >   Locating the bottleneck could help.  Is the sloth at the server orE >the client?  Can the (VMS) NFS client do more read-ahesd or caching, 	 >perhaps?o  J The bottleneck is somewhere on the Linux (server) side of things, probablyL the disk, because the problem is worst when waking up sleepy Linux processesH that are presumably swapped out (or whatever the *n%x equivalent of that> is).  Sorry I'm getting a little off-topic in a VMS newsgroup.  H Increasing the client-side buffer size is a good idea, much cleaner than copying the file.s  O >> Do you get a popping sound between songs due to audio device resets?  I haveb >> a solution to that. > F >   I've done very little with the audio, but I'd suggest posting it. G >That way I (or one of the other six people who care) might discover it- >in a Google search someday.  I I hesitate to post all the C code but I'll briefly explain my problem and0D solution. When the last virtual audio (output) device is closed, VMSG (MMOV$SERVER I think) seems to perform a hardware reset on my PWS sounddF device.  I'm not sure if it's a hardware reset exactly but it makes an2 audible pop as if a cable is suddenly unplugged.    J So the solution is to keep at least one virtual device open all the time. A You could dummy up a fake sound app which wrote a flatline outputnK continuously, but it would cut the output signal in half (MMOV$SERVER seems.F to average the virtual outputs to calculate the physical output).  NotF really a problem if you bump up the volume, but that's not what I did.  I I modifed MPG123 (a simple, command-line MP3 player which runs on VMS) to I use two system locks, call them "inner" and "outer".  It works like this:k  
 Open MP3 filer0 Wait for "outer" lock		! don't let anybody leave8 Wait for "inner" lock		! wait until it's my turn to play Open virtual audio devicem* Release "outer" lock		! let the old guy go
 Play audio( Release "inner" lock		! I'm done playing+ Wait for "outer" lock		! is it OK to leave?b Close virtual audio device Release "outer" lock		! bye.  7 And of course I set the audio queue's JOB_LIMIT to 2.  w  L If anybody wants the C code, drop me a line at the address below (the one inE the headers doesn't work).  I will put it on the web some day soon.  e  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2004 17:09:39 -0800. From: siobhanellis@hotmail.com (Siobhan Ellis)* Subject: unable to assign PCI base address= Message-ID: <7902e81a.0402131709.1f7c6842@posting.google.com>   A I've just inherited some very old equipment. The machine has verygC little in it, when it starts up, it keeps coming up with "Unable to8 assign PCI base address".   D then when it gets to looking for devices on the internal SCSI bus itF can't find any, keeps giving me "Waiting for pka0.7.0.5.0 to poll...."   anyone have any ideas?   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 01:19:04 +0000 (UTC)e, From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis). Subject: Re: unable to assign PCI base address. Message-ID: <c0jt28$h9p$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   siobhanellis@hotmail.com (Siobhan Ellis) writes in article <7902e81a.0402131709.1f7c6842@posting.google.com> dated 13 Feb 2004 17:09:39 -0800:B >I've just inherited some very old equipment. The machine has veryD >little in it, when it starts up, it keeps coming up with "Unable to >assign PCI base address".   I've never seen that one.z  E >then when it gets to looking for devices on the internal SCSI bus itwG >can't find any, keeps giving me "Waiting for pka0.7.0.5.0 to poll...."e  9 That sounds like the SCSI bus is not terminated properly.e  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:34:07 -0600 % From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> . Subject: Re: unable to assign PCI base address8 Message-ID: <FOgXb.11479$_66.1359@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>  7 Keith A. Lewis <lewis@mazda.mitre.org> wrote in messagef( news:c0jt28$h9p$1@newslocal.mitre.org...< > siobhanellis@hotmail.com (Siobhan Ellis) writes in articleC <7902e81a.0402131709.1f7c6842@posting.google.com> dated 13 Feb 2004l 17:09:39 -0800:oD > >I've just inherited some very old equipment. The machine has veryF > >little in it, when it starts up, it keeps coming up with "Unable to > >assign PCI base address". >  > I've never seen that one.i > G > >then when it gets to looking for devices on the internal SCSI bus itgI > >can't find any, keeps giving me "Waiting for pka0.7.0.5.0 to poll....". >p; > That sounds like the SCSI bus is not terminated properly.N  ! Or the SCSI card itself is toast.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 05:31:44 GMTR% From: Roger Ivie <rivie@ridgenet.net>m. Subject: Re: unable to assign PCI base address3 Message-ID: <slrnc2rcm0.4k5.rivie@Stench.no.domain>a  L In article <7902e81a.0402131709.1f7c6842@posting.google.com>, Siobhan Ellis  wrote:C > I've just inherited some very old equipment. The machine has very E > little in it, when it starts up, it keeps coming up with "Unable to] > assign PCI base address".   F Only time I've ever seen something like that message was when I rudelyG discovered that newer Alpha machines are limited to a 64KB I/O space ineG imitation of the Intel boxes. I had some hardware that was expecting to1H be able to take a 256KB chunk. Had to remap the hardware to memory space; and work the driver over to handle the other address space.e   -- r
 Roger Ivie rivie@ridgenet.net- (Rated a 10 on the Fox Scale of Forth-Hatred)!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 23:30:49 +0000o) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org>EF Subject: Re: will these non-DEC disks work with my hobbyist equipment?? Message-ID: <C6dXb.5101$vo1.3529@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net>,   Hans Vlems wrote:-  L > Some (all ?) of the DEC RZnn drives were re-badged third party devices. In > front of me sit two drives:E >  > RZ26L  made by Quantum? > RZ28C-E made by Seagate, actually an ST32550N Barracuda drivec  < While most of those drives did indeed come from 3rd parties,6 almost all of them (if not absolutely all of them) had5 firmware which fixed bugs that were found as a resultu6 of the extensive testing. Whether those bug fixes ever4 made it into later standard releases of the firmware is unclear.h  2 Having said that, many people ran non-DEC disks in6 production environments without seeing data corruption	 problems.o   Antonioa   -- r   --   ---------------s- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgt   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 21:21:12 -0600r@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>F Subject: Re: will these non-DEC disks work with my hobbyist equipment?6 Message-ID: <402C42A8.C2704517@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:b > @ > NEC D3847 (12/95) 1.6GB 3145 Cyl, 16 Heads, 63 Sect, 1623.1 MB$ > Quantum Fireball TM 32S012  3.2 GB > Micropolis 4221   2050 MBe > Fujitsu M2952SYU  2 GB > J > I have 7.3-1 ALPHA (DEC 3000/300 LX, DEC 3000/600, ALPHAstation 255/233)H > and 7.3 ALPHA (VAXstation 4000/60, VAXstation 4000/90, VAX 4000/100A).J > Not sure what the SCSI controllers are (just the "stock" ones which came7 > from the factory)---anyway to find this out from DCL?d > < > If a particular disk works, will it work as a system disk? > J > (In general, I use DEC disks, and if I don't, then generally not for theG > system disk.  However, one node still has a non-shadowed system disk, J > and one which is too small at that (RF35 on a DSSI bus); I could get twoJ > identical Quantum Fireballs as mentioned above, and have an external boxC > which has room in it, so might consider that for the system disk,I= > perhaps putting secondary swap and page files on the RF35.)e > H > Two years ago, I bought two used SEAGATE SX910800N (9 GB) and set themJ > up as my DISK$USER shadow set.  They have been running continuously everI > since (except for a few minutes of downtime while I moved them to other,E > nodes and/or changed the SCSI ID).  Having had good experience withpH > non-DEC disks, and having the opportunity to buy the disks above for a7 > good price, I'm wondering whether I should go for it.   A Are these all SCSI disks? If so, I'd expect some success with the-B Quantum Fireball and possibly also the Fujitsu. The NEC will be an? experiment, and I couldn't hazard a guess about the Micropolis.S   -- g David J. Dachtera2 dba DJE SystemsO http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2004 13:04:39 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) : Subject: Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full3 Message-ID: <ZZz8+vpWHOk2@eisner.encompasserve.org>r   In article <c0isv9$5h$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:l  % > Read the rest of the thread thread.t      I did read the thread.G      I ask again:  who?i  = > So what you have is a problem that might of might not crashr: > a Solaris box with a similar problem that might or might > not crash an OpenVMS box.t  D    No.  You don't have a problem on VMS because an unprivileged userD    can't do the DOS in the default configuration.  A system manager B    has to set up a system specifically to get VMS into any sort ofF    problem, that problem has to specifically be selected to be crash, A    and then the user would have to work hard to get it to happen.eE    It's always possible to misconfgure a system to open up an attack.e"    passwords in the computer case.  G    There's nothing an unpriviledged user can do which will set this up.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:44:23 GMTh0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>: Subject: Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full- Message-ID: <rO9Xb.29628$_44.27584@attbi_s52>V   I wrote:    >>T  >>    for(;;) malloc(1000);  >>f   Lord Isildur wrote:   E > on any self-respecting unix, this will not crash the _system_, this F > will merely barf the offending process, when it finds that it cannotH > allocate more address space. if the program was written to detect thatK > condition and not just die, and its work can still be done, it might just F > go on, using a lot of core, but most programs, especially those justD > written to blindly hog tons of core, will likely just segfault andL > die. the system does not die from running out of swap. processes trying toD > acquire more resources, when those requests return unsuccessfully,J > often find themselves operating in an undefined state and do odd things,F > including crashing. nobody says you _have_ to check return values of > system calls! :-)f  F Programs that check the return value from malloc() shouldn't segfault.F The program above will allocate as much memory as it can.  Though someF systems have a per process memory limit below the system memory limit,G if you run enough such processes you will fill up memory.  You can alsos tryn       for(;;) fork();   # or for(;;)  malloc(1000000),fork();   E > now, maybe solaris is so behind the times that it actually does dieiC > when there is no more swap space. one more reason not to use thath > ugly system.  H > the extremely moronic decision on solaris to have swap and /tmp on theI > same device (and as far as i know the user can't change this), however, K > allows anything which can write enough files to fill up /tmp to cause the  > system to run out of swap...    A Using tmpfs for /tmp is completely optional.  It is just an entryeD in fstab.   Compilers traditionally use /tmp for intermediate files,0 and tmpfs speeds up compilation on such systems.  ( > though ive also seen that solaris willG > stat removing files to free up space if it needsmore swap. altogetheroD > just a stupid, pointless scheme though. sun was and is really goodJ > at implementing subsystems, but for the past decade or so, i have reallyH > gotten the impression from both their hardware and their software thatJ > they lack any greater vision or overall design.. i'm sure that someone'sM > idea of putting tmp and swap in the same place was clever for the first ten3F > minutes of its life; it never should have gotten into a release of aI > real operating system. there are so many such 'features' which when one H > looks at them, one thinks 'why? just why? what is the reason for this?# > there was no reason!' about them.c  > It will depend on what kind of users you expect on the system.   > me, i use BSD.: > vms content: i run BSD on vaxen, which also can run vms.  A I believe newer BSD versions also have a tmpfs equivalent, thoughc/ it may not be installed by the install scripts.m   -- glen    ------------------------------   Date: 13 Feb 2004 20:35:56 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon): Subject: Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full: Message-ID: <c0jcfc$16njds$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  - In article <rO9Xb.29628$_44.27584@attbi_s52>, 3 	glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes:r
 > I wrote: >  > >> > >>    for(;;) malloc(1000);) > >> >  > Lord Isildur wrote:t > H > Programs that check the return value from malloc() shouldn't segfault.H > The program above will allocate as much memory as it can.  Though someH > systems have a per process memory limit below the system memory limit,I > if you run enough such processes you will fill up memory.  You can also  > try. >  >     for(;;) fork();a  C This will run out of user process slots long before it uses all theb momory.n > % > or for(;;)  malloc(1000000),fork();n  D And this will hit the user memory limit long before it exhausted all! the memory in any of my machines.s   >   N And, anyway, its much easier to suck up all the memory in a machine than that.   emacs "some_filename"n   :-)a   bill   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   d   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2004 13:48:44 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski): Subject: Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0402131348.23a64892@posting.google.com>m  p "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<ZKOWb.281$fO7.94@news.cpqcorp.net>...M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>r= > wrote in message news:c0g8os$1qs$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...t > >uC > > It looks like you have a user/process problem. Does OpenVMS runV+ > > indefinitely if you fill its disks up ?e > H > To some degree, yes.  You might end up in situations where some thingsJ > (applications) will hang or die as they fail to get space.  In addition,J > there are not a lot of situations that would allow a unprivleged user to! > trivially fill the system disk.   9 but this is unix, the os that gives anyone any priviledgei they want ... :)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:04:00 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>n: Subject: Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full0 Message-ID: <c0i7eh$lua$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Roy Omond wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >> Fred Kleinsorge wrote:e >>( >>> "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" + >>> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>e? >>> wrote in message news:c0g8os$1qs$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...D >>>wD >>>> It looks like you have a user/process problem. Does OpenVMS run, >>>> indefinitely if you fill its disks up ? >>>  >>>cJ >>> To some degree, yes.  You might end up in situations where some thingsL >>> (applications) will hang or die as they fail to get space.  In addition,L >>> there are not a lot of situations that would allow a unprivleged user to# >>> trivially fill the system disk.. >> >>C >> Solaris isn't allowing an unpriviledged user to fill up a systemA/ >> disk /tmp isn't generally a disk its memory.s >  > 3 > Well, looks like this stirred things up a bit :-)> > 3 > In addition to others' comments, I'd have to say:e > > > a) this looks like it's unique to Solaris.  I've not managed@ > Solaris systems in the last 10 years - and I've not seen this,+ > ahem, "feature" on any other Unix system.s >   9 Its a feature of all UNIX systems, the difference is that 9 Solaris allows you to create a memory resident /tmp which > can be a big performance win provided you manage it correctly.  ; File up the partition that /tmp resides in for example / ons: a system without this and you will get the same behaviour.B > b) I've never seen VMS crash because any disk (even system disk): > filled up (and that's in 22 years managing VMS systems). >    But other people have.> > c) this Solaris, ahem, "feature" has got to be the stupidest@ > design I've seen, possibly *ever* in the 35 years I've been in7 > this industry (and I've seen plenty of stupid stuff).  >   ; Sorry but thats rubbish and if you really don't want to get-; the performance hike for using tmpfs then you are perfectlyr% free to mount /tmp wherever you like.m  B > d) I understand that it's easy to change this behaviour, but forB > it be like that by default is a serious security hole (yep, hereA > we go again ;-).  It allows unprivileged users to, by design oraA > by accident, crash a system.  At best, this is a classic Denial25 > of Service; at worst, it could lead to catastrophe.C > > > I'm flabbergasted because I refused to believe it, even when= > told by my Solaris colleagues that it is so.  Looks like my B > faith in Solaris was unfounded - I shall not go near any Solaris > system ever again in my life.  >   < Thats your decision, however its the wrong one for the wrong reasons.   Regardsf Andrew Harrisonb > Codswalloped :-) >  > Roy Omondl > Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2004 18:38:41 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)l: Subject: RE: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full3 Message-ID: <Pp7qfHy0KuX0@eisner.encompasserve.org>i   In article <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC120D2293@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>, "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> writes:  L > What about if the disk where the OpenVMS security audit file resides fills > up?n  7 SET AUDIT/SERVER=FINAL_ACTION=PURGE_OLD is the default..   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.088 ************************