0 INFO-VAX	Sun, 15 Feb 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 90      Contents:J Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I  prevent this?P Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I  prevent this? this?I Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? I Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? I Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? P Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? this?t5 Re: DCL procedure to find and delete unused accounts?  Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!  Re: Microvax vs Vaxstation 3100  Re: Microvax vs Vaxstation 3100 - Re: Mozilla for OpenVMS Alpha V1.5 available!  New account : Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says article> Re: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says article> Re: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says article> Re: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says article* Re: OT: Windows has become open source :-)5 Re: puzzle involving ALLOCLASS and SET VOLUME/REBUILD 5 re: puzzle involving ALLOCLASS and SET VOLUME/REBUILD ( Split CI farm MSCP=1 TMSCP=1 ALLOCLASS=1, Re: Split CI farm MSCP=1 TMSCP=1 ALLOCLASS=1 Re: stupid smtp/mapi question  Re: VAXUS: Symposium cancelled Re: VAXUS: Symposium cancelled= Re: will these non-DEC disks work with my hobbyist equipment? = Re: will these non-DEC disks work with my hobbyist equipment? = Re: will these non-DEC disks work with my hobbyist equipment? = Re: will these non-DEC disks work with my hobbyist equipment? : Re: [DCL] Quitting DELETE/CONFIRM doesn't stop immediately  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:33:33 -0500 + From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net> S Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I  prevent this? A Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040214202545.068eaec0@mail.patmedia.net>    At 05:19 PM 2/14/2004, Z wrote: 3 >Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote: H >: I would not use COPY for this.  If you are trying to make a backup of4 >: something, that's what the BACKUP command is for! > " >: $ BACKUP MUMBLE.DB  MUMBLE.SAVEJ >: should make an exact copy of the original with the same allocated size,< >: the same creation date, same owner, protection, etc, etc. >  >It does _NOT_ ... >  >$ backup db1.db;1 db1.db;2/log 7 >%BACKUP-S-CREATED, created DB1_DSK:[DB.ACT_DB]DB1.DB;2  >$ dir/siz=all db1.* >  >Directory DB1_DSK:[DB.ACT_DB] > ! >DB1.DB;2                   4/105 ! >DB1.DB;1                   4/105   >DB1.LIST;1                 2/35 > ! >Total of 3 files, 10/245 blocks.   G Looks good here, both versions have 4 blocks used out of 105 allocated.      >$ set file/end db1.db;2 >$ set file/end db1.db;1 >$ dir/siz=all db1.* >  >Directory DB1_DSK:[DB.ACT_DB] > ! >DB1.DB;2                 105/105 ! >DB1.DB;1                 105/105   >DB1.LIST;1                 2/35  ( What's this got to do with the question?  " >Total of 3 files, 212/245 blocks. > 6 >$ dump/bloc=(start=5,end=5) db1.db;2 /out=db1_db2.dmp6 >$ dump/bloc=(start=5,end=5) db1.db;1 /out=db1_db1.dmp  L Why are you looking at the block after the original end of file (remember 4 
 blocks used)?   & >[ Original file (DB1.DB;1), block 5 ] > 4 >Virtual block number 5 (00000005), 512 (0200) bytes > H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >4B53445F 34424424 00000000 00000400 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00003241 2E314244 5D49412E 42445B3A   [snip]   > $ >[ BACKUP file (DB1.DB;2), block 5 ] > 4 >Virtual block number 5 (00000005), 512 (0200) bytesH >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000  H Remember "allocated" means just that. The file system has reserved that J space so it can be used. There is no guarantee that the those blocks will J be filled with anything meaningfull. If your database program is actually L using those blocks without telling the file system that they are used, then ? the problem is with your database program not the VMS commands.   L Is your database program using the file when you back it up or is it closed?   Ken      ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 05:00:56 GMT > From: Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com>Y Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I  prevent this? this? 8 Message-ID: <c2DXb.82$Ws1.29@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>   Z wrote:  . > Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net> wrote:: > : >$ dump/bloc=(start=5,end=5) db1.db;2 /out=db1_db2.dmp: > : >$ dump/bloc=(start=5,end=5) db1.db;1 /out=db1_db1.dmp > P > : Why are you looking at the block after the original end of file (remember 4  > : blocks used)?  > 0 > Because I suspected it had crucial data in it. > 
 > And it did.   F Are you sure it was realted to your data? How did you determine that? E Just because there is something there doesn't mean it is "real" data.    >  > P > : Is your database program using the file when you back it up or is it closed? > ? > No, the DB is completely shut down at the time of the BACKUP.   L Which database? Rdb? Oracle7/8? I suspect Oracle7/8 from the file extension.  H Seeng a 4/105 means that the file was initially created with 105 blocks G allocated -- which is the cluster-factor for the drive.  You have only  8 used 4 blocks of that 105 blocks.  Just because you see C something/anything in blocks 5-105 does NOT mean that the data has  G anything related to your database.  The EOF (end of file) marker is in  ? BLOCK 4 which would move if you appended more data to the file.    Michael Austin   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:19:08 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> R Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this?0 Message-ID: <102t7mssl5h9t44@corp.supernews.com>  2 Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:H : I would not use COPY for this.  If you are trying to make a backup of 3 : something, that's what the BACKUP command is for!   ! : $ BACKUP MUMBLE.DB  MUMBLE.SAVE J : should make an exact copy of the original with the same allocated size, ; : the same creation date, same owner, protection, etc, etc.    It does _NOT_ ...    $ backup db1.db;1 db1.db;2/log6 %BACKUP-S-CREATED, created DB1_DSK:[DB.ACT_DB]DB1.DB;2 $ dir/siz=all db1.*    Directory DB1_DSK:[DB.ACT_DB]     DB1.DB;2                   4/105  DB1.DB;1                   4/105 DB1.LIST;1                 2/35     Total of 3 files, 10/245 blocks.   $ set file/end db1.db;2  $ set file/end db1.db;1  $ dir/siz=all db1.*    Directory DB1_DSK:[DB.ACT_DB]     DB1.DB;2                 105/105  DB1.DB;1                 105/105 DB1.LIST;1                 2/35   ! Total of 3 files, 212/245 blocks.   5 $ dump/bloc=(start=5,end=5) db1.db;2 /out=db1_db2.dmp 5 $ dump/bloc=(start=5,end=5) db1.db;1 /out=db1_db1.dmp   & [ Original file (DB1.DB;1), block 5 ]   3 Virtual block number 5 (00000005), 512 (0200) bytes   G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 4B53445F 34424424 00000000 00000400 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00003241 2E314244 5D49412E 42445B3A G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00003341 2E314244 5D49412E 42445B3A 4B53445F 34424404 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000    $ [ BACKUP file (DB1.DB;2), block 5 ]   4 Virtual block number 5 (00000005), 512 (0200) bytes G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 G 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 00:55:42 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> R Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this?0 Message-ID: <102tgsejuoqi532@corp.supernews.com>  . John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> wrote:J : If you really must preserve the random contents of the disk that are not : part of your file   > The contents beyond EOF are not random and if they're not part: of the file, why does SET FILE/END give me access to them?    9 : (and sorry, but your application is broken if it thinks G : copy and $ SET FILE/ATTR=(ORG:SEQ) both original and copy afterwards.   @ The application may indeed be broken.  But that doesn't help me.@ The application is no longer supported on VMS.  So there will be8 no fix for this.  And we cannot change database vendors.  ? Is there or is there not a way for me to write ALL of the file, A even the area between EOF and ALQ onto a tape and then back onto  7 disk (using BACKUP) without first mucking with EOF with 1 SET FILE/END or the file attributes with CONVERT?   
 Yes or no?   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2004 19:34:13 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) R Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this?3 Message-ID: <l4paASVc6Mps@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <102tgsejuoqi532@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:  A > Is there or is there not a way for me to write ALL of the file, C > even the area between EOF and ALQ onto a tape and then back onto  9 > disk (using BACKUP) without first mucking with EOF with 3 > SET FILE/END or the file attributes with CONVERT?  >  > Yes or no?   BACKUP/PHYSICAL.  A But for other Backup commands that deal with the ODS-2 structure, ? any undocumented trick that happens to ignore that structure is C just that - an undocumented trick, whose behavior is not guaranteed & to continue in future versions of VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:15:33 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> Y Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? this?t 0 Message-ID: <O6KdnWtbQ4N6ErPdRVn-ig@comcast.com>  F I would not use COPY for this.  If you are trying to make a backup of 1 something, that's what the BACKUP command is for!    $ BACKUP MUMBLE.DB  MUMBLE.SAVE H should make an exact copy of the original with the same allocated size, 9 the same creation date, same owner, protection, etc, etc.      Z wrote:  3 >Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:  >: See:  >: $ HELP COPY /ALLOCATION5 >: for the explanation.  COPY is working as designed.  > G >Thank you.  So it seems the only way around this is to define a symbol G >for COPY that uses a .COM procedure which then uses f$file(... ALQ) to K >get the allocated size, then specifies it explicitly for a COPY/ALLOCATION 	 >command?  >  > I >: You did not demonstrate a problem with BACKUP and I would be a little   >: surprised if you could. > 5 >True.  I'll double check that BACKUP also does this.  >  >    >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 06:21:35 GMT 0 From: "Stephen Eickhoff" <operagost@example.com>> Subject: Re: DCL procedure to find and delete unused accounts?8 Message-ID: <PdEXb.13784$5W3.10413@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>  C "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message + news:newscache$p683th$0k61$1@news.sil.at... L > In article <HEtXb.21578$1S1.5833@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, "Stephen Eickhoff" <operagost@example.com> writes: G > >Just so I don't have to reinvent the wheel, has anyone written a DCL I > >procedure to find users that haven't logged in for a certain amount of  time > >and disable or delete them? > J > Have you looked at http://dcl.openvms.org ? Maybe there is what you look for,  H I've found some helpful stuff there, but nothing like this. I don't evenE know how to access system services from DCL- some help there would be L appreciated. It seems DECUS has a tool to do this. I just downloaded it, butG as I don't have DECC installed, I imagine it won't do me any good. Only  Alpha objects are included.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2004 11:36:11 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)( Subject: Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0402141136.1f495ace@posting.google.com>   k "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<xIqdnRvFTYYBhrPdRVn_iw@comcast.com>... J > No, I meant that politicians are indicted and convicted more frequently  > than Mafia Dons!  A According to what? And how many politicians are there compared to  Dons?   D Last I heard, John Gotti was convicted and thrown in jail (I believe1 he has expired since) and Giuliani is a free man.   5 >   If theMafia had a Department of Youth and Family  H > Services, the children in its care would not be in foster homes where F > the foster parents were starving them (See recent NJ DYFS scandals).  E But the Mafia has no such dept., which is yet another difference. You D said the *biggest difference*. I'd say the space program and winning two world wars are pretty big.  F Besides, this NJ case is insignificant compared to winning world wars.C Besides**2, how many children avoided such fates because of this NJ B Dept? And what are the details? Maybe that dept. is overworked andF underfunded, maybe not. What is the net effect of this dept as regards- the public good? You can't expect perfection.   B Yes, govt screws some things up, but they do a lot right, but whatC they do right rarely makes the news. There's good and bad in almost  everything.   E Remember, you said the "biggest difference". That is what I responded  to.    [...]    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:06:55 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)( Subject: Re: Microvax vs Vaxstation 3100$ Message-ID: <c0khee$siu$1@online.de>  G In article <c0j75s$17kqjj$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Hans Vlems" ! <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes:    - > The VAXstation 4000 series are related, the > > 60/90/90A/96 even use the same memory and video controllers.  H Interesting.  Is the maximum memory the same for the 90 and the 60?  If @ so, it might make sense for me to swap some memory cards around.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:07:59 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)( Subject: Re: Microvax vs Vaxstation 3100$ Message-ID: <c0khgf$siu$2@online.de>   > Would a VAXstation  , > 4000 Model 90 fit in a 4000 Model 60 case?  H I have both; the boxes look the same except for the "60" or "90" on the  front.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:10:02 +0100  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>6 Subject: Re: Mozilla for OpenVMS Alpha V1.5 available!2 Message-ID: <c0kt2e$r1t$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Rich Jordan wrote:C > Just saw the announcement that Mozilla M1.5 has been released for C > Alpha.  Thanks, VMS folks!  Its been a long wait, but its finally  > here!  > 
 > Rich Jordan N That is nice, but where can I find the kit? It is not on the Mozilla web site.  ) And where did you read the announcement ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:38:14 -0500 / From: "Rodney Kelp" <rodneykelp605@hotmail.com>  Subject: New account1 Message-ID: <X4ydnWSAve_mULPdRVn-ug@adelphia.com>   J What are the commands used to create a new user account? What privs do you need to do it? (Open VMS)      --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.588 / Virus Database: 372 - Release Date: 2/13/2004   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2004 14:07:25 -0800' From: doug_mentohl@yahoo.co.uk (Daeron) C Subject: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says article = Message-ID: <da46811d.0402141407.5caf5a03@posting.google.com>   + Open Source Is Fertile Ground for Foul Play  A. Russell Jones Feb 11 2004  ? The nature of open source makes security problems an inevitable E concern. There are a handful of ways that malicious code can make its A way into open source and avoid detection during security testing, A making government adoption of open source particularly worrisome.   E ..  governments that rely on free open source software will put their 3 country's and their citizens' data in harm's way ..   C .. the security breach will be placed into the open source software 1 from inside, by someone working on the project ..   ? .. distributions will be created .. with the express purpose of 4 marketing them to governments at cut-rate pricing ..  ; .. As anyone can create and market a distribution, it's not < far-fetched to imagine a version subsidized and supported byE organizations that may not have U.S. or other government interests at  heart ..  E ..  the widespread perception that Linux is more secure than Windows, F despite the fact that both products are riddled with software security holes ..  E .. I'd be very surprised if some open source software doesn't already % contain well-hidden malicious code ..   E .. Any security checks performed on the software before the source is  delivered are invalid ..  C .. I don't think that security testing can be made robust enough to B protect against someone injecting dangerous code into the software from the inside ..  F .. I'm not nave enough to think that proprietary commercial operatingD system software doesn't have the same sort of vulnerability, but theD barriers to implementing them are much higher, because the source is better protected ..   C .. Inevitably, that choice will lead to security breaches that will A cost those same governments (and ultimately you), huge amounts of  money to rectify.   , http://www.devx.com/opensource/Article/20111   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2004 20:12:17 -0800, From: sapphos@carolina.rr.com (Becca Putman)G Subject: Re: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says article = Message-ID: <cfc74b14.0402142012.42a07337@posting.google.com>   D Sounds like the rantings of SCO again.  I wouldn't pay it much mind.   Becca     l doug_mentohl@yahoo.co.uk (Daeron) wrote in message news:<da46811d.0402141407.5caf5a03@posting.google.com>...- > Open Source Is Fertile Ground for Foul Play  > A. Russell Jones Feb 11 2004 > A > The nature of open source makes security problems an inevitable G > concern. There are a handful of ways that malicious code can make its C > way into open source and avoid detection during security testing, C > making government adoption of open source particularly worrisome.  >  *snip*   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2004 20:12:24 -0800, From: sapphos@carolina.rr.com (Becca Putman)G Subject: Re: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says article = Message-ID: <cfc74b14.0402142012.1235bb1b@posting.google.com>   D Sounds like the rantings of SCO again.  I wouldn't pay it much mind.   Becca     l doug_mentohl@yahoo.co.uk (Daeron) wrote in message news:<da46811d.0402141407.5caf5a03@posting.google.com>...- > Open Source Is Fertile Ground for Foul Play  > A. Russell Jones Feb 11 2004 > A > The nature of open source makes security problems an inevitable G > concern. There are a handful of ways that malicious code can make its C > way into open source and avoid detection during security testing, C > making government adoption of open source particularly worrisome.  >  *snip*   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 23:10:20 -0600 ( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>G Subject: Re: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says article / Message-ID: <00A2D6D8.2E763209.5@tachysoft.com>   - >From: sapphos@carolina.rr.com (Becca Putman)  >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsH >Subject: Re: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says article! >Date: 14 Feb 2004 20:12:17 -0800    > ) >Sounds like the rantings of SCO again.       L Or someone on the payroll of billy.  He can't fight linux using his standard4 dirty tricks.  He has to come up with some new ones.   Wayne O =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O =============================================================================== B Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?", 	Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:38:35 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)3 Subject: Re: OT: Windows has become open source :-) $ Message-ID: <c0kj9r$siu$8@online.de>  2 In article <402D5AA4.700254FC@istop.com>, JF Mezei$ <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:    > Bob Koehler wrote:K > >   I hope not.  A hacker once get a copy of the VMS source.  Even though L > >   that doens't expose lots of security holes (because they aren't there). > >   I hope DEC didn't loose copyright on it. > N > It isn't the problem os someone gaining access to the source, it is the factK > that Microsoft has not taken appropriate steps to protect their own trade  > secrets.   > M > If you knowingly put your trade secrets on a platform that is known to have N > more security holes than swiss cheese, have you taken appropriate steps show5 > you do not intend this to fall into public domain ?   G This is a misunderstanding.  Nothing can "fall into the public domain". H In order for something to get into the public domain, the author has to H say this explicitly.  See http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html  for details.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:08:38 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)> Subject: Re: puzzle involving ALLOCLASS and SET VOLUME/REBUILD$ Message-ID: <c0khhm$siu$3@online.de>  @ In article <402C422E.FEECADDA@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J.9 Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:    I > Well, simply, if ALLOCLASS or Port Allocation Class is 0, the prefix is > > "nodename$". If non-zero, the device name prefix is "$nnn$".  , Right, but the allocation class IS non-zero.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:16:59 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)> Subject: re: puzzle involving ALLOCLASS and SET VOLUME/REBUILD$ Message-ID: <c0ki1a$siu$4@online.de>  3 In article <GyRNn$E$NHTj@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   J > > Why is the disk sometimes referred to with the ALLOCLASS and sometimesK > > with the NODE name?  Is it a VAX/ALPHA or a 7.3/7.3-1 thing?  (There is F > > no 7.3-1 VAX, and I never ran 7.3 ALPHA.)  I only have a couple ofG > > non-shadowed disks; shadowed ones show up as _DSAxxx: on all nodes.  > > E > > The behaviour is the same regardless of what machine the disk is   > > physically connected to. > H >    The rule of thumb is ALLOCLASS 0 is no allocation class, so use the >    node name.   ! Right, but ALLOCLASS is not zero.   H >    As far as why the "same" disk shows up with different names, I haveJ >    no reason to believe its the same disk.  I infer from your discussionG >    that you have a mixed architecture cluster, that means you have at I >    least two system disks.  Generally one runs SYSMAN from a privileged J >    account, such as SYSTEM.  Since SYS$SCRATCH defaults to SYS$LOGIN andF >    SYS$LOGIN defaults to the system disk for the SYSTEM account, I'dA >    assume that you are actually looking at two different disks.   . Note that it is DISK$SCRATCH, not SYS$SCRATCH.  F >    Perhaps you can show us something convincing that you really have+ >    two different names for the same disk?    OK, how's this:   ' SYSMAN> do sh logical disk$scratch/full 2 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node DANEELP    "DISK$SCRATCH" [exec] = "$44$DKA200:" [concealed,terminal] (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)2 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node GLADIAP    "DISK$SCRATCH" [exec] = "$44$DKA200:" [concealed,terminal] (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)2 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node ELIJAHP    "DISK$SCRATCH" [exec] = "$44$DKA200:" [concealed,terminal] (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE). SYSMAN> do set volume/rebuild disk$scratch/log2 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node DANEEL) %SET-I-MODIFIED, _ELIJAH$DKA200: modified 2 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node GLADIA& %SET-I-MODIFIED, _$44$DKA200: modified2 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node ELIJAH) %SET-I-MODIFIED, _ELIJAH$DKA200: modified 1 SYSMAN> do write sys$output f$getsyi("alloclass") 2 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node DANEEL 222 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node GLADIA 332 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node ELIJAH 44 SYSMAN> do sh dev $44$dka2002 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node DANEELP Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntP  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count CntP $44$DKA200:   (ELIJAH)  Mounted              0  SCRATCH          72744     1   32 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node GLADIAP Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntP  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count CntP $44$DKA200:   (ELIJAH)  Mounted              0  SCRATCH          72744     3   32 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node ELIJAHP Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntP  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count CntP $44$DKA200:   (ELIJAH)  Mounted              0  SCRATCH          72744     1   3  J Interestingly, if I leave out the $44$, the disk is not seen from DANEEL,  but this is a different puzzle.   2 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node DANEELP Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntP  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count CntP DSA233:                 Mounted              0  SWAPPAGE_3       99999     1   3C $33$DKA200:   (GLADIA)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA233:) C $33$DKA500:   (GLADIA)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA233:) 2 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node GLADIAP Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntP  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count CntP DSA233:                 Mounted              0  SWAPPAGE_3       99999     3   3C $33$DKA200:   (GLADIA)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA233:) C $33$DKA500:   (GLADIA)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA233:) P $44$DKA200:   (ELIJAH)  Mounted              0  SCRATCH          72678     3   32 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node ELIJAHP Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntP  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count CntP DSA233:                 Mounted              0  SWAPPAGE_3       99999     1   3C $33$DKA200:   (GLADIA)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA233:) C $33$DKA500:   (GLADIA)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA233:) P $44$DKA200:   (ELIJAH)  Mounted              0  SCRATCH          72678     1   3   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:10:42 -0600 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)1 Subject: Split CI farm MSCP=1 TMSCP=1 ALLOCLASS=1 1 Message-ID: <04021413104256@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   % I have a three node Alpha CI cluster.   % Two of the nodes have one CI SC (#1): + controllers with MSCP allocation class    1 +                  TMSCP allocation class   1  SYSGEN with      ALLOCLASS = 1    " The other node has one CI SC (#2):+ controllers with MSCP allocation class    1 +                  TMSCP allocation class   1  SYSGEN with      ALLOCLASS = 1    ; I believe this to be a "less than desirable" configuration.   O 1) The ALLOCLASS = 1 allows locally served disks (as there is) to have possible & conflicts (i.e., DKA500 as $1$DKA500:)  M 2) The MSCP/TMSCP allocation class 1 on all the controllers in both CI arrays I to also have possible conflicts.  I already have duplicated disks on both  arrays.   J The problem is mounting disks /SYSTEM or /CLUSTER - in either case it will5 cause device conflicts and therefore can not be done.    My thoughts are to: %  Set the ALLOCLASS = 0 on all servers 2  Leave CI SC (#1) MSCP/TMSCP allocation class at 10  Set CI SC (#2) MSCP/TMSCP allocation class to 2  . Anyone care to contribute their 2-cents worth?       J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:14:54 -0600 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)5 Subject: Re: Split CI farm MSCP=1 TMSCP=1 ALLOCLASS=1 1 Message-ID: <04021413145423@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   . I also got to thinking about this a bit more -  H Since each CI SC has 2 or 3 controller pairs I should set the MSCP/TMSCP( allocation class uniquely for each pair.     J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:31:56 -0800 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> & Subject: Re: stupid smtp/mapi question( Message-ID: <402E85BC.7050505@rdrop.com>  
 Rut wrote:H > Thanks for all your responses. Basically what I want to do is get away4 > from MAPI calls and send mail directly using smtp.   A wise decision, IMHO...   > I'm looking for = > sample code that shows how to send an email with/without an D > attachment. I'm coding in Delphi 6. If anyone can help me out withE > this or point me to a link that explains the different calls I'd be  > much appreciated.   H At this point, you're off-topic, since this is a VMS oriented group and C Delphi doesn't go there. Googling 'delphi smtp' gets lots of hits,  I including not a few activeX controls you can acquire, thus reducing your  E problem drastically; I expect they would have implementation samples.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:14:45 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> ' Subject: Re: VAXUS: Symposium cancelled ' Message-ID: <402E81B5.6020905@MMaz.com>    Didier Morandi wrote:   G > The VAXUS Symposium, which was scheduled for June the 25th, 2004, in  A > Paris has been cancelled due to the lack of publicity from the   > so-called specialized Press. > D > Read our open letter to the French so-called specialized Press at  > www.waxus.org (French only)  >  www.WAXUS.org?    E Perhaps a Freudian slip, but it has been said numerous times on this  E list, and multiple times by me, that in my opinion, you were wasting  I your time trying to beat a drum expecting HP to do something with VMS on  E VAX when that has been in EOL stream prior to their acquisition!  It a  really should be 'shame on you.'     BarryA   -- P  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2004 20:07:07 -0800. From: alexdaniels@themail.co.uk (Alex Daniels)' Subject: Re: VAXUS: Symposium cancellede= Message-ID: <9f7f13a8.0402142007.4d3d50c0@posting.google.com>n  ^ Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote in message news:<402d1eba$0$28136$636a15ce@news.free.fr>...Q > The VAXUS Symposium, which was scheduled for June the 25th, 2004, in Paris has eS > been cancelled due to the lack of publicity from the so-called specialized Press.  > R > Read our open letter to the French so-called specialized Press at www.waxus.org  > (French only)C >  > D.  ? Here is an "English" translation that I got Google to produce..p   Alex     -------------------------    Shame with you!   < Letter open to the French specialized data-processing Press    February 12, 2004   ! Messrs specialized journalists , i  ? The first national congress of our users' association, recentlyeE created, which was to be held on June 25, 2004 with the Palate of thetC Congresses of the Door Shirt in Paris, was cancelled by decision ofe the Office of VAXUS ./  F The Office of VAXUS , association of the users of the operating systemD VAX/VMS from DIGITAL , today HP , decided not to maintain the optionB which had been taken for the hiring of the room and the additional services for three reasons:t  D   The first reason is that HP France did not condescend to answer usD when we solicited a lecturer to present at our members and the otherC visitors of the Show the vision of HP on the future of VAX/VMS . WetF think that HP did not take to us with serious because you do not have,E the specialized journalists , condescended to relay the advertisementMD of the creation of VAXUS nor the behaviour of its first Congress. ItB is your work to relay information, you did not do your work. Shame	 with you.   B   The second reason is that the had a presentiment of suppliers ofD solutions to the problem of the obsolescence of VAX/VMS , which is aF problem , even if you are not concerned with it, did not condescend toF accept our invitation to be spoken about their vision of the business.E We think that these suppliers did not take to us with serious for theo= same reasons quoted previously. You are thus responsible, then) specialized journalists . Shame with you.r  D   Lastly, the third reason and probably most significant, is that weA to date collected only two inscriptions for the Congress, whereas E certain recut information gives a report of 1800 DIGITAL Customers intE France , from which at least the quarter still has machines VAX , and;E not on least undertaken: Michelin, SNECMA, France Telecom Mobile, thedF RATP, Shell Berre, Creusot the Loire, EDF, Peugeot, Airbus and much ofB others. Do you think, the specialized journalists , that there are@ really in France only two people interested by becoming it of anA operating system which has turned on their premises for more than0C fifteen years without any dysfunction, on obsolete machines for ten0E years, and with applications given up by their respective editors for @ sometimes five years? And which thus has questions , to which HPD cannot answer today differently than by off-hand: " we will make you= migrate towards Itanium " whereas the migration of a business0: application of production on another platform is a projectE monstrueusement complexes and that, moreover, one hears now that this0C platform will be stopped at HP with the profit of Athlon-64 of AMD?aB Where is the future of these industrialists users of VAX/VMS , theF specialized journalists ? You make fun about it completely , since youE did not announce in your columns the behaviour of our congress. Shamel	 with you.a  hA And year next or in two years, when you intend to speak about thehD grogne growing about these users who see arriving at great steps theD year 2010 from which VAX "will not be supported any more" by HP , do8 not come you glorifier by announcing that you expect it.   Didier Morandi r   President of VAXUS.   F The press release announcing the creation of VAXUS and that announcingA the behaviour of the national Congress were sent to the followingr@ newspapers: 01 Hebdo, the Data-processing World, Echoes, the New Factory and ZD-Net.l   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Feb 2004 22:31:20 GMT) From: Hans Bachner <Hans@Bachner.priv.at> F Subject: Re: will these non-DEC disks work with my hobbyist equipment?, Message-ID: <Xns948FDE033A914hbchp@10.0.0.3>  * Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote:   > Hans Vlems wrote:e > A >> Some (all ?) of the DEC RZnn drives were re-badged third partye >> devices.  <snip> > > > While most of those drives did indeed come from 3rd parties,8 > almost all of them (if not absolutely all of them) had7 > firmware which fixed bugs that were found as a resulto8 > of the extensive testing. Whether those bug fixes ever6 > made it into later standard releases of the firmware
 > is unclear.l  G A few years back when Digital still existed, I talked to a guy who was -H involved in qualification of storage components for Digital systems. He @ reported that *100%* of the devices tested (disks, tape drives, D controllers) received updated firmware before they were rebadged as I Digital components. In most cases, these modifications were also adopted rI for the standard firmware of the devices (as they actually fixed bugs or  3 added functionality - like tagged command queuing).l   Hans.n -- n? We now see that real VMS users give themselves real privileges   causing real problems ;-).7 (Gnther Frhlin, Hewlett-Packard, in a support thread).   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:19:53 +0000 (UTC)uP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)F Subject: Re: will these non-DEC disks work with my hobbyist equipment?$ Message-ID: <c0ki6o$siu$5@online.de>  = In article <d5ce4b06.0402130825.18e2af41@posting.google.com>,e1 al5vf03p02@sneakemail.com (William Webb) writes: .  : > I tried mailing you at the naked address but it bounced.  F That's strange.  Can you try again (I haven't noticed any other email 5 problems) and send me the bounce message if possible?   G > Don't forget about the 1.06 GB limit FOR SYSTEM DISKS that exists foreE > some, but not all, of the VAX systems you have listed. [See FAQ for 
 > details]  ; Isn't this just for VAXstation 3100s, not VAXstation 4000s?1  G > And I trust that you meant 7.3 VAX unless you've done something trulyl > extraordinary.  
 Of course.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:28:53 +0000 (UTC)bP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)F Subject: Re: will these non-DEC disks work with my hobbyist equipment?$ Message-ID: <c0kinl$siu$6@online.de>  A In article <A9SdnWAWL7WMnLDdRVn-jQ@mpowercom.net>, "Jack Peacock"0 <peacock@simconv.com> writes:   N > "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de>0 > wrote in message news:c0h1mj$v6$1@online.de... > > I could get two0L > > identical Quantum Fireballs as mentioned above, and have an external box > >0N > I'd recommend you not use the Fireball drives.  In the past I've had quite aI > bit of trouble with them on VMS systems.  I think the command tag queue0 > doesn't work.0  D Is this something one would notice right away, or only after a time?   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:33:09 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)F Subject: Re: will these non-DEC disks work with my hobbyist equipment?$ Message-ID: <c0kivl$siu$7@online.de>  G In article <c0j6lg$181n6k$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Hans Vlems"0! <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes: 0  I > Some (all ?) of the DEC RZnn drives were re-badged third party devices.0  3 Right, but in some cases they changed the firmware.0   > In > front of me sit two drives:l >  > RZ26L  made by Quantum? > RZ28C-E made by Seagate, actually an ST32550N Barracuda drive0  D Yes, the RZ28 which came in my ALPHAstation 255/233 (bought new from DEC) was a Seagate Barracuda.0  I > Your reluctance to use non-DEC gear for system disks is understandable.0N > Especially if you've been confronted with early SCSI support in VAX/VMS (5.3. > ?) But 7.3 (AXP and VAX) is quite tolerant.   D The only non-DEC disks I've used up until now have been a couple of E SEAGATEs, but I've had no problems with them.  Before I bought them, 0H several folks here said that they had been using them with no problem.  E I haven't had any bad experiences, but since not ALL SCSI disks will 0I work, I'd like to have some feedback.  I was able to borrow them to test 0H before I decide to buy them.  Obviously, if they don't work I won't buy I them.  I'm more concerned with them appearing to work but actually doing 0* something wrong and/or stop working later.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2004 16:14:04 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)C Subject: Re: [DCL] Quitting DELETE/CONFIRM doesn't stop immediately0< Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0402141614.f405548@posting.google.com>  o peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<newscache$3sy2th$ez51$1@news.sil.at>... K > If I do a DELETE/CONFIRM/LOG on a large directory (tree) and I "Q"uit it,dL > then it seems it continues until the end of the filelist (without deletingK > any more files of course) before it finally writes the summary and quits.t > D > Is this the intended behaviour (sometimes taking umteen minutes) ?O > Why is in DELETE.EXE no short way from quitting the fileloop to the summary ?, >  > TIAE  D Interesting. I have this problem not with delete, but with directory: and purge. I posted this a while back -- here it is again:   "bC There are other time-wasters. Why does DIRECTORY/DATE/TOTAL take sorC much longer than DIRECTORY/TOTAL? The DIRECTORY command is probablyt? looking up the dates in the file headers. But it's not going tonF display them anyway! Why is this bad? Because many people have symbolsF like DIR:==DIRECTORY/SIZE=ALL/DATE/PROT and interactively they may runE something like DIR/TOTAL which will then take much longer to run than  DIRECTORY/TOTAL.  F Also, why does DIRECTORY /VERSION=1 take longer than DIRECTORY ;? ThisC is bad because /VERSION=n where n is a small number also takes "tooeD long". It runs as if its checking every version of every file in the
 directory.  F And why does PURGE/CONFIRM followed by QUIT take so long to exit? WhatA is it doing? It takes much longer than DELETE/CONFIRM followed by@ QUIT.d  $ (Problems above tested on VMS v6.1.) "t   This quote was taken from   " Subject: Re: CTRL-Y and VMS BACKUP  Date: 16 Oct 2002 16:23:46 -0700= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0210161523.6cb83480@posting.google.com>w  + and I just now verified this for VMS v6.2. h   Alan E. Feldmane   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.090 ************************