0 INFO-VAX	Sun, 15 Feb 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 91      Contents: Re: Allocation classes and SANJ Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I  prevent this?J Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I  prevent this?C Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent I Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? I Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? I Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? I Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? I Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? I Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? I Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? I Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? P Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? this?tP Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? this?tP Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? this?tP Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? this?tP Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? this?t RE: CPU benchmarks Re: CPU benchmarks5 Re: DCL procedure to find and delete unused accounts? 5 Re: DCL procedure to find and delete unused accounts? < Re: HP Launches Largest-ever Enterprise Advertising Campaign< Re: HP Launches Largest-ever Enterprise Advertising Campaign< RE: HP Launches Largest-ever Enterprise Advertising Campaign Re: Microvax vs Vaxstation 3100 - Re: Mozilla for OpenVMS Alpha V1.5 available! - Re: Mozilla for OpenVMS Alpha V1.5 available!  Re: New account  Re: New account > Re: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says article> Re: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says article> RE: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says article> Re: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says article> RE: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says articleP Re: OT: Another American arrested in Brazil after making obscene gesture gesture* Re: OT: Windows has become open source :-)* Re: OT: Windows has become open source :-)* Re: OT: Windows has become open source :-)* Re: OT: Windows has become open source :-)A Re: page- and swap-files, autogen, modparams.dat, file-naming etc , Re: Split CI farm MSCP=1 TMSCP=1 ALLOCLASS=1 Re: stupid smtp/mapi question 
 Re: VMS 7.3-2 
 Re: VMS 7.3-2  Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?= Re: will these non-DEC disks work with my hobbyist equipment? : Re: [DCL] Quitting DELETE/CONFIRM doesn't stop immediately  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 02:15:21 +0000 8 From: David McKenzie <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz>' Subject: Re: Allocation classes and SAN C Message-ID: <402e3b9e$0$52214$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:  H > In article <c52d72e88db80cd38cb93b9c06a6200d@news.teranews.com>, Jilly$ > <jilly@clarityconnect.com> writes: > L >> Bad form to follow up my own post but also remember to set the PAQ on the( >> DQ ports also if they are being used. > 9 > Why not just let them default to the system ALLOCLASS ?     K well one has to be careful. If the allocation class on an HSJ for instance  K is different to the allocation class on a host then that host can not MSCP   serve the disks on that HSJ   I That can matter hugely in a wide area cluster for instance. it is a much  L better strategy for instance to have all the hosts on one side of a link to L have the same allocation class, and all the HSX to have the same allocation  class as well.  F This is less important in a SAN situation, but I still think the best I strategy is to keep the allocation class the same as far as possible and   then uniquely number the disks.   K Now that one can use prot classes to change the aapparent numbers on local  ? disks this allows local stirage to be uniquely numbered as well   L Uniquely numbered disks alllows for much easier maintenace and documentation     --   David McKenzie  remove rugby  - Web:            http://www.paradigm-shift.biz 7 Mail            David.McKenzie@paradigm-shift.rugby.biz    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 03:31:21 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> S Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I  prevent this? 0 Message-ID: <102tq0948j0ds9c@corp.supernews.com>  , Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net> wrote:8 : >$ dump/bloc=(start=5,end=5) db1.db;2 /out=db1_db2.dmp8 : >$ dump/bloc=(start=5,end=5) db1.db;1 /out=db1_db1.dmp  N : Why are you looking at the block after the original end of file (remember 4  : blocks used)?   . Because I suspected it had crucial data in it.   And it did.     N : Is your database program using the file when you back it up or is it closed?  = No, the DB is completely shut down at the time of the BACKUP.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 05:30:43 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> S Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I  prevent this? 0 Message-ID: <102u1034jpka52f@corp.supernews.com>  ? Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> wrote: 
 : Z wrote:  0 : > Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net> wrote:< : > : >$ dump/bloc=(start=5,end=5) db1.db;2 /out=db1_db2.dmp< : > : >$ dump/bloc=(start=5,end=5) db1.db;1 /out=db1_db1.dmp : > R : > : Why are you looking at the block after the original end of file (remember 4  : > : blocks used)?  : > 2 : > Because I suspected it had crucial data in it. : >  : > And it did.   H : Are you sure it was realted to your data? How did you determine that? G : Just because there is something there doesn't mean it is "real" data.   	 Positive.   1 Block 5 contains the names of 2 database extents:   G 4B53445F 34424424 00000000 00000400 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ' ........................$DB4_DSK 000020 H  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00003241 2E314244 5D49412E 42445B3A' :[DB.AI]DB1.A2.................. 000040    ...   G 00000000 00003341 2E314244 5D49412E 42445B3A 4B53445F 34424404 00000000 ' .....DB4_DSK:[DB.AI]DB1.A3...... 000140    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 02:51:03 +0100 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)L Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent; Message-ID: <402ed087.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   2 Richard B. Gilbert (rgilbert88@comcast.net) wrote:! > $ BACKUP MUMBLE.DB  MUMBLE.SAVE J > should make an exact copy of the original with the same allocated size, ; > the same creation date, same owner, protection, etc, etc.   0 I've tripped over that way too often: Only using3  $ BACKUP MUMBLE.DB  MUMBLE.SAVE /BY_OWNER=ORIGINAL / will restore the original owner on MUMBLE.SAVE.    cu,    Martin --  D One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules!7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de J One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:35:45 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)R Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this?$ Message-ID: <c0l4n1$sa7$1@online.de>  H In article <c0l41o$18du4f$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>, Michael Unger( <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> writes:   ! > On 2004-02-14 02:24, "Z" wrote:  > H > > Why does COPY (and BACKUP) alter the file's allocated size (from 105E > > blocks to 35 ... see below ) ?!  This is causing databases on our   > > BACKUP tapes to be unusable. > J > Why? Isn't it just the _allocation_ size, i.e., reserved but unused disk1 > blocks, except of the first 4 blocks of course?   I I don't know what kind of database is involved, but perhaps the database  F needs to have files with a lot of allocated space, so that it can add H records to a table or something and it might need them to be contiguous.  I Often, one allocates a "storage area" for use with a database.  From the  G point of view of the databse, the contents of this area might grow and  C shrink.  From the point of view of VMS, it's one file with a fixed  F allocation size.  Sometimes the file can extend, but there might be a 3 performance penalty if it can't do so contiguously.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:43:45 -0000 * From: Chris <chris.lonsdale@uktransco.com>R Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this?< Message-ID: <MPG.1a985277e1e658309896b0@news.newsreader.com>  3 In article <102sffstl25fo90@corp.supernews.com>, Z   zarlenga@conan.ids.net says...4 > Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote: > : See: > : $ HELP COPY /ALLOCATION 6 > : for the explanation.  COPY is working as designed. > H > Thank you.  So it seems the only way around this is to define a symbolH > for COPY that uses a .COM procedure which then uses f$file(... ALQ) toL > get the allocated size, then specifies it explicitly for a COPY/ALLOCATION
 > command? >    Have you tried COPY/NOTRUNCATE?      --   Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:46:43 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> R Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this?0 Message-ID: <102sr8j5sg7cmec@corp.supernews.com>  + Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote: 0 : So all you need to do is use COPY/NOTRUNCATE .  = Copy/NoTruncate fixed the changing of the allocated size, but A didn't copy the whole file as-is.  It gives me the first 4 blocks ? (EOF is 4) perfectly - I verified that with DUMP - but the next ? 101 blocks must be different between the original and the copy.   = I say this because the DB still refuses to start when pointed ? to the Copy/NoTruncate version and I can see (w/ DUMP/HEADER on @ the original) that the highest block written is 105 (even though EOF is at block 4).   = So it looks like Copy/NoTruncate is allocating 105 blocks for < the copy but only copying 4 block of data from the original.  @ Is there a way to get DUMP to dump all the blocks (I tried using> /BLOCKS/COUNT=8 but that still gave me only 4 blocks of data)?; Then I could verify that, for example, block 5 is different 2 between the original and the Copy/NoTruncate copy.  > Is there any way to make a PERFECT copy of the file, the WHOLE  file, i.e. all allocated blocks?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:54:20 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> R Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this?0 Message-ID: <102v20s11ii5g14@corp.supernews.com>  . John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> wrote:M : No, and rightly so.  But you can achieve what you want.  What is wrong with M : correcting the eof position anyway (investigate set file/attr to see how to L : set it to a fixed point rather than the end of the allocated blocks) ?  It  
 Thank you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 00:07:15 +0000 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> R Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this?8 Message-ID: <r4dt20l89s678fhetnu83vefeklpd68bh7@4ax.com>  F On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:19:08 -0000, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> wrote:  3 >Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote: I >: I would not use COPY for this.  If you are trying to make a backup of  4 >: something, that's what the BACKUP command is for! > " >: $ BACKUP MUMBLE.DB  MUMBLE.SAVEK >: should make an exact copy of the original with the same allocated size,  < >: the same creation date, same owner, protection, etc, etc. >  >It does _NOT_ ... >(backup stuff snipped)   K You seem to be missing the point.  There is no data beyond block 4 which is L part of your file.  Your file data stops at block 4.  Therefore, any utilityL which faithfully copies the 4 blocks of data that are in your file is indeedL making an exact copy.  Using the /NOTRUNCATE qualifier will stop either COPYH or BACKUP making the resultant file smaller in allocation, but it cannotL prevent them from making the file larger in general if the source and targetG disk have different cluster factors not exact multiples of one another.   H If you really must preserve the random contents of the disk that are notI part of your file (and sorry, but your application is broken if it thinks J they are), then you could $ SET FILE/ATTR=(ORG:IDX) immediately before theE copy and $ SET FILE/ATTR=(ORG:SEQ) both original and copy afterwards. L However this will probably change file revision dates, and don't blame me ifL it busts your file too (it worked on a simple test file).  Indexed files areI a special case - the file data is assumed to run up to the full allocated L size and end-of-file marks are somewhat notional (often not correctly set on& forced close operations, for example).   --  9 Yesterday's flower children are today's blooming idiots.     Mail john rather than nospam...    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 00:12:03 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> R Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this?0 Message-ID: <102teajfc3q4t4d@corp.supernews.com>  2 Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:J : You could try that or else try SET FILE /END which sets the end-of-file I : to the highest allocated block.  If the database offers its own backup   : software, use that.    I will be trying that.    D : You might also look for software that handles its files in a more % : logical and straightforward manner.   A Assuming no SET FILE/END is done, is there any way to tell BACKUP 3 to write the whole file to tape (and back to disk)?   . Will BACKUP/IMAGE copy all blocks on the disk?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 03:34:47 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> R Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this?0 Message-ID: <102tq6nl01a35f2@corp.supernews.com>  . Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@spamcop.net> wrote: : BACKUP/PHYSICAL.   No good.  : BACKUP tells me I can only backup a device with /PHYSICAL.  ' $ backup/physical/log db1.db db.sav/sav G %BACKUP-F-PHYFILSPE, /PHYSICAL specification must have only device name    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 05:27:37 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> R Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this?0 Message-ID: <102u0q95noq3lbe@corp.supernews.com>  2 Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:4 : Would you, by any chance, be talking about Sybase?   No.   A The database in question does support DUMP/LOAD but it would take ) days to reload a 100GB database that way.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:52:30 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> Y Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? this?t 0 Message-ID: <hO-dnWsq_Zydh7PdRVn-vA@comcast.com>   See:   $ HELP COPY /ALLOCATION   2 for the explanation.  COPY is working as designed.  F You did not demonstrate a problem with BACKUP and I would be a little  surprised if you could.     ALPHA5_$ dir/size=all /since=yes  ( Directory SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP.STATS]   LOOPSTATS.20040214;1#                            0/15      PEERSTATS.20040214;1#                            0/75        Total of 2 files, 0/90 blocks.> ALPHA5_$ backup/log/ignore=interlock peerstats.20040214 xx.tmpI %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP.STATS]PEERSTATS.20040214;1  ! is open for write by another user A %BACKUP-S-CREATED, created SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP.STATS]XX.TMP;1  ALPHA5_$ dir/size=all xx.tmp  ( Directory SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP.STATS]  # XX.TMP;1                   0/75        Total of 1 file, 0/75 blocks.      Z wrote:   >HELP! >     E >Why does COPY (and BACKUP) alter the file's allocated size (from 105 B >blocks to 35 ... see below ) ?!  This is causing databases on our >BACKUP tapes to be unusable.  >      >$ dir/full db1.db >      >Directory DB1_DSK:[DB]  >     2 >DB1.DB;1                     File ID:  (222,23,0)- >Size:            4/105        Owner:    [DB] # >Created:   22-JAN-2000 10:16:50.81 * >Revised:   13-FEB-2004 09:55:45.87 (8790) >Expires:   <None specified>  >Backup:    <No backup recorded> >Effective: <None specified> >Recording: <None specified> >File organization:  Sequential  >Shelved state:      Online H >File attributes:    Allocation: 105, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0, >No version limit 3 >Record format:      Fixed length 1024 byte records  >Record attributes:  None  >RMS attributes:     None  >Journaling enabled: None > >File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World: >Access Cntrl List:  None  >  >Total of 1 file, 4/105 blocks.  >  >$ copy db1.db x.x/log > D >%COPY-S-COPIED, DB1_DSK:[DB]DB1.DB;1 copied to DB1_DSK:[DB]X.X;1 (4 >blocks) >      >$ dir/full x.x  >  >Directory DB1_DSK:[DB]  >     3 >X.X;1                         File ID:  (329,33,0) - >Size:            4/35         Owner:    [DB] # >Created:   13-FEB-2004 15:47:16.10 ' >Revised:   13-FEB-2004 15:47:16.12 (1)  >Expires:   <None specified>  >Backup:    <No backup recorded> >Effective: <None specified> >Recording: <None specified> >File organization:  Sequential  >Shelved state:      Online G >File attributes:    Allocation: 35, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0,  >No version limit 3 >Record format:      Fixed length 1024 byte records  >Record attributes:  None  >RMS attributes:     None  >Journaling enabled: None > >File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World: >Access Cntrl List:  None  >  >Total of 1 file, 4/35 blocks. >  >$ >    >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:25:34 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> Y Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? this?t 0 Message-ID: <BO2dneOx9p2iD7PdRVn-uQ@comcast.com>  % I would try the BACKUP utility first.   E Some database programs provide their own backup facility (RMUBACKUP,  G DUMP, EXPORT, etc) and you may be required to use whatever is provided.      Z wrote:  , >Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote:1 >: So all you need to do is use COPY/NOTRUNCATE .  > > >Copy/NoTruncate fixed the changing of the allocated size, butB >didn't copy the whole file as-is.  It gives me the first 4 blocks@ >(EOF is 4) perfectly - I verified that with DUMP - but the next@ >101 blocks must be different between the original and the copy. > > >I say this because the DB still refuses to start when pointed@ >to the Copy/NoTruncate version and I can see (w/ DUMP/HEADER onA >the original) that the highest block written is 105 (even though  >EOF is at block 4). > > >So it looks like Copy/NoTruncate is allocating 105 blocks for= >the copy but only copying 4 block of data from the original.  > A >Is there a way to get DUMP to dump all the blocks (I tried using ? >/BLOCKS/COUNT=8 but that still gave me only 4 blocks of data)? < >Then I could verify that, for example, block 5 is different3 >between the original and the Copy/NoTruncate copy.  > ? >Is there any way to make a PERFECT copy of the file, the WHOLE ! >file, i.e. all allocated blocks?  >  >  >  >    >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:51:37 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> Y Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? this?t 0 Message-ID: <wrqdnQf4q4bmKbPdRVn-jQ@comcast.com>  B It would appear that your database software is writing beyond the A end-of-file and not adjusting the end-of-file offset in the file  I header.  This is a very good way to trip up anything in VMS.  VMS custom  H is to assume that anything beyond end-of-file is not data.  This is not G universal but to violate it is asking for the sort of trouble that you   have been finding.  F VMS violates its own convention in the case of the queueing database; H the recommendation for backing that up is to use the CONVERT utility to  make a copy.  H You could try that or else try SET FILE /END which sets the end-of-file G to the highest allocated block.  If the database offers its own backup   software, use that.   B You might also look for software that handles its files in a more # logical and straightforward manner.    Z wrote:  3 >Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote: I >: I would not use COPY for this.  If you are trying to make a backup of  4 >: something, that's what the BACKUP command is for! > " >: $ BACKUP MUMBLE.DB  MUMBLE.SAVEK >: should make an exact copy of the original with the same allocated size,  < >: the same creation date, same owner, protection, etc, etc. >  >It does _NOT_ ... >  >$ backup db1.db;1 db1.db;2/log 7 >%BACKUP-S-CREATED, created DB1_DSK:[DB.ACT_DB]DB1.DB;2  >$ dir/siz=all db1.* >  >Directory DB1_DSK:[DB.ACT_DB] > ! >DB1.DB;2                   4/105 ! >DB1.DB;1                   4/105   >DB1.LIST;1                 2/35 > ! >Total of 3 files, 10/245 blocks.  >  >$ set file/end db1.db;2 >$ set file/end db1.db;1 >$ dir/siz=all db1.* >  >Directory DB1_DSK:[DB.ACT_DB] > ! >DB1.DB;2                 105/105 ! >DB1.DB;1                 105/105   >DB1.LIST;1                 2/35 > " >Total of 3 files, 212/245 blocks. > 6 >$ dump/bloc=(start=5,end=5) db1.db;2 /out=db1_db2.dmp6 >$ dump/bloc=(start=5,end=5) db1.db;1 /out=db1_db1.dmp > ' >[ Original file (DB1.DB;1), block 5 ]   > 4 >Virtual block number 5 (00000005), 512 (0200) bytes > H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >4B53445F 34424424 00000000 00000400 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00003241 2E314244 5D49412E 42445B3AH >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00003341 2E314244 5D49412E 42445B3A 4B53445F 34424404 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 > % >[ BACKUP file (DB1.DB;2), block 5 ]   > 5 >Virtual block number 5 (00000005), 512 (0200) bytes  H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000H >00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 >    >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 23:58:36 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> Y Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? this?t 0 Message-ID: <0dqdnRdogZLzYbPd4p2dnA@comcast.com>  9 BACKUP should copy from beginning-of-file to end-of-file.   I An image backup does not copy all blocks on a disk.  It copies all FILES  C on disk plus some data structures that are not, strictly speaking,  H files.  BACKUP /IMAGE is the only way to copy a bootable disk and still  be able to boot the copy.   I If you must have a  block for block copy, make a BACKUP /PHYSICAL.   The  H problems with that are that you must restore the backup to an identical @ disk and there is no way to restore a file; it's all or nothing!     Z wrote:  3 >Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote: K >: You could try that or else try SET FILE /END which sets the end-of-file  J >: to the highest allocated block.  If the database offers its own backup  >: software, use that. >  >I will be trying that.  >  > E >: You might also look for software that handles its files in a more  & >: logical and straightforward manner. > B >Assuming no SET FILE/END is done, is there any way to tell BACKUP4 >to write the whole file to tape (and back to disk)? > / >Will BACKUP/IMAGE copy all blocks on the disk?  >  >  >    >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 00:13:14 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> Y Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? this?t 0 Message-ID: <-Omdnfw3woRBYrPdRVn-ug@comcast.com>  2 Would you, by any chance, be talking about Sybase?  I If so, the answer is to forget about backing up files and use the Sybase  H DUMP command to write the database to a file that can be copied, backed E up, etc.  If you need to restore such, you tell Sybase to CREATE the  ! file(s) and then LOAD the data.     H  If there are no files on the disk but Sybase "devices", you can either H not back the disk up at all, or do a SET FILE /NOBACKUP for each of the I "device" files.  I do the latter so that I can restore the disk with the  G proper directory structure, file ownership, etc.  The Sybase files are  H restored as empty files of the proper size, ownership, etc, but we have I to delete them and then tell Sybase to create them in order to get files   that Sybase will accept.   Z wrote:  / >John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> wrote: K >: If you really must preserve the random contents of the disk that are not  >: part of your file > ? >The contents beyond EOF are not random and if they're not part ; >of the file, why does SET FILE/END give me access to them?  >  > : >: (and sorry, but your application is broken if it thinksH >: copy and $ SET FILE/ATTR=(ORG:SEQ) both original and copy afterwards. > A >The application may indeed be broken.  But that doesn't help me. A >The application is no longer supported on VMS.  So there will be 9 >no fix for this.  And we cannot change database vendors.  > @ >Is there or is there not a way for me to write ALL of the file,B >even the area between EOF and ALQ onto a tape and then back onto 8 >disk (using BACKUP) without first mucking with EOF with2 >SET FILE/END or the file attributes with CONVERT? >  >Yes or no?  >    >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:04:04 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>  Subject: RE: CPU benchmarks R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB278C11@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: John Brandon [mailto:brandon@dalsemi.com]=20! > Sent: February 13, 2004 5:23 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: Re: CPU benchmarks  >=20= > > I am looking into getting some GS1280's for my production B > > environments, currently running on racks of ES40's.    I am=20 > looking to; > > find out what the relative horsepower is between the=20  > 6/667MHz cpu's in=20I > > ES40's, and the 7/1.15GHz cpu's in GS1280.  (so I can estimate the=20  > > value of n in n-way). = > >      I know there is a website out there that has this=20  > info, however I=205 > > can't remember the link (I would like that also.)  > >=20: > >      I am currently running OVMS V7.3-1 and my main=20 > applications are=20 2 > > Cerner's Millennium, and Oracle 8.1.something. > >=20 > > thanks \ > >=20	 > > Dave.  >=20
 > Try this >=20A > http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/performance/perf_tps.html  >=20 >=20 > J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  > VMS Systems Administrator , > firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com >=20   John,   D Also, if you need OpenVMS Customer testimonials on the Alpha GS1280,! here are a couple of recent ones: F http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/cerner/cerner.pdf (Cerner)D http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/Bank-Austria/bankaus.pdf (Bank Austria)E http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/aurora/aurora.pdf (Aurora  Health Care)   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 02:30:51 GMT ' From: nospam <x@wedontwantyourspam.com>  Subject: Re: CPU benchmarks 5 Message-ID: <BC552516.234AE%x@wedontwantyourspam.com>   J in article a3c44af1.0402131307.405593f8@posting.google.com, Dave Baxter at7 dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com wrote on 14/02/2004 08:07:   ; > I am looking into getting some GS1280's for my production  ..D >    I am currently running OVMS V7.3-1 and my main applications are0 > Cerner's Millennium, and Oracle 8.1.something. ROFL :>    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:48:53 +0000 (UTC) 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)> Subject: Re: DCL procedure to find and delete unused accounts?1 Message-ID: <newscache$p683th$0k61$1@news.sil.at>   j In article <HEtXb.21578$1S1.5833@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, "Stephen Eickhoff" <operagost@example.com> writes:E >Just so I don't have to reinvent the wheel, has anyone written a DCL L >procedure to find users that haven't logged in for a certain amount of time >and disable or delete them?  M Have you looked at http://dcl.openvms.org ? Maybe there is what you look for,    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:43:04 +0100 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> > Subject: Re: DCL procedure to find and delete unused accounts?: Message-ID: <c0nmse$1918sk$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>  . On 2004-02-14 19:19, "Stephen Eickhoff" wrote:  F > Just so I don't have to reinvent the wheel, has anyone written a DCLM > procedure to find users that haven't logged in for a certain amount of time  > and disable or delete them?   > Saved a long time ago from a rather old article (DECUS Munich, VMS-Notes) ...   | P ================================================================================5 | Note 9962.8                   Expired Accoutns list 
     8 of 8? | DECUS::INFO_VAX                                      40 lines  23-JUL-1998 16:40  | P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------' | Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:16:00 +0100 0 | From: Alistair McIntosh <a.mcintosh@LILLY.COM|$ | Subject: Re: Expired Accoutns list |  | Scott H. Stevens wrote:  |  |>
 |> Hello All,  |>G |>     I'd like to know what the best way is (if one is possible, since  I'm new K |> at this) to list expired accounts or at least a list of all accounts and  |> their last log on date. | J | A hacked together command file that reads through SYSUAF.DAT follows, itH | lists last interactive login date and time & disuser flag. If the dateE | displayed is 17-nov-1858 it is because they have never interactivly  | logged in. | G | (NOTE - Compaq/Digital may change the layout of SYSUAF in the future)  | > | $       Open/Read/Share=Write Uaf_File SYS$SYSTEM:SYSUAF.DAT% | $       open/Write out_file aim.lis  | $loop:, | $       Read Uaf_File  Uaf_Record /end=end+ | $       User = F$extract(4,20,Uaf_record)N- | $       Owner = F$extract(85,31,Uaf_record)  | $       Disable = ""C | $       if f$cvui(4,1,F$extract(468,1,uaf_record)) Then disable =e
 "DIS-USER"7 | $       Uaf_llogin_quad = F$extract(396,8,Uaf_record)  | $       Uaf_llogin =9 f$fao("!%D",f$cvui(32,32,f$fao("!AD",8,Uaf_llogin_quad)))s> | $       write sys$output "''User'  ''uaf_llogin' ''disable'" | $       goto loopA | $end:  | $       Close uaf_file |  | Hope this helpsn |h | -- | A.McIntosh @lilly.comlF | Collected DC Weather Reports http://www.sonnet.co.uk/muse/dcwrp.html   Michaelo   -- i; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.'@ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system.P5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.n   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2004 04:53:03 -0800. From: alexdaniels@themail.co.uk (Alex Daniels)E Subject: Re: HP Launches Largest-ever Enterprise Advertising Campaign < Message-ID: <9f7f13a8.0402150453.cfa175b@posting.google.com>  @ > More information on the "change +hp" campaign is available at # > www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/hpads.n > [end of quote] >  >  > Anything on VMS ?  >  > D.  D Downloaded some(but not all) of the files, although at least two VMSD sites are mentioned (USPS and Reuters), can't find any references to VMS...  C Perhaps they are waiting for the TV ad part of the campaign, before  they mention VMS.-  B Or more likely HP will say this is an "Adpative Enterprise" ad and  that no OS' are being mentioned.   Alex   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Feb 2004 14:06:22 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)E Subject: Re: HP Launches Largest-ever Enterprise Advertising Campaigna: Message-ID: <c0nuct$184370$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  < In article <9f7f13a8.0402150453.cfa175b@posting.google.com>,1 	alexdaniels@themail.co.uk (Alex Daniels) writes:uA >> More information on the "change +hp" campaign is available at  $ >> www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/hpads. >> [end of quote]n >>   >> c >> Anything on VMS ? >>   >> D.o > F > Downloaded some(but not all) of the files, although at least two VMSF > sites are mentioned (USPS and Reuters), can't find any references to > VMS... > E > Perhaps they are waiting for the TV ad part of the campaign, before, > they mention VMS.n > D > Or more likely HP will say this is an "Adpative Enterprise" ad and" > that no OS' are being mentioned. >   @ And the theme is "change".  maybe the intent is to get these bigC customers to "change".  Perhaps to HPUX or more likely, to Windows.o     bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   9   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:19:19 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>6E Subject: RE: HP Launches Largest-ever Enterprise Advertising Campaign R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB278C16@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > >=20I > > Or more likely HP will say this is an "Adpative Enterprise" ad and=20s$ > > that no OS' are being mentioned. > >=20 >=20A > And the theme is "change".  maybe the intent is to get these=20 @ > big customers to "change".  Perhaps to HPUX or more likely,=20
 > to Windows.  >=20 >=20 > bill >=20 > --=20 B > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. =20 > Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |E > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  =20u >=20  B While I don't know what the latest AD campaign is up to, the themeF around "change" and the Adaptive Enterprise is all about being able toG deal with rapidly changing business requirements. (the change emphasis)l  G Among other things, this means using things like IT Consolidation, muchqF improved server resource management, virtualization of resources, muchB improved services availability (e.g. multi-site) and much improved) business-IT alignment (ITSM type issues).i  F Most large Customers today are more into "making better use of what weE already have" as opposed to "lets migrate to that next magic platformt& that will solve all of our issues ..".  H Its one of the reasons why J2EE is really picking up steam in many largeC Cust environments. Use new technologies and integrate with existing: business logic and resources.)   Regardso  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantt HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477n Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcoma. (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:40:16 +0000u) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org>b( Subject: Re: Microvax vs Vaxstation 3100> Message-ID: <HbsXb.5467$vo1.802@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net>   Richard B. Gilbert wrote:   C > It has been about six years since I saw either one.  I thought I uJ > recalled that the Model 90 case was an inch or so taller than the Model 
 > 60 case.  E The case are identical. Even the Storage Expansion case is identical.oC Obviously the bits inside are different (although I think all 3 usen the same PSU).  @ The VAXstation 4000 VLC is the odd one out - it has the very low "pizza box" style case./   Antonio=   --   ---------------1- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orge   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:55:43 +0100 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com>.6 Subject: Re: Mozilla for OpenVMS Alpha V1.5 available!: Message-ID: <c0nmsg$1918sk$2@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>  ( On 2004-02-14 16:53, "Paul Sture" wrote:   > warren sander wrote: >>  H >> I just pulled the kit, run the .exe and product installed the pcsi it >> creates and it worked fine. >> 0 > I > I've installed it OK, but it's doing something horrible with the colour0G > map. The desktop and other application windows turn various shades of.G > blue, although this changes back when when I bring another app to theAJ > foreground, and it's back to normal when I minimize Mozilla. The url bar- > is also black and I cannot see what I type.e     | Hardware Prerequisites> | Mozilla for OpenVMS is available only on the Alpha platform.D | If you encounter color problems when running Mozilla on an 8-planeJ | video mode system, it is likely that you are running another applicationK | that uses a large number of colors (Navigator V3 is such an application).kJ | In this situation, start Mozilla before you start the other application.L | These problems usually do not occur on a 16 or 24-plane video mode system.  ? [Release Notes (available in PDF from the HP web site), page 2]O    F > When run from an account with only NETMBCX and TMPMBX privileges, it1 > gives  %SYSTEM-F-NOPRIV on the following files:a > D > [VMS$COMMON.MOZILLA.COMPONENTS]XPTI.DAT;1 - 6 times on READ access > D > [VMS$COMMON.MOZILLA.CHROME]CHROME.RDF;1 - multiple times some READ! > access, some READ,WRITE access.d    3 | Mozilla Fails to Start Up For Non-Privileged User-E | All versions of Mozilla for OpenVMS contain a problem where MozillaeE | will not start up for a non-privileged user, but does start and run)G | for a privileged user. When this problem occurs, an error message maye' | or may not be displayed. For example:i |d  | $ @sys$common:[mozilla]mozilla | Starting mozilla-bin...e1 | LoadPlugin: failed to initialize shared libraryr/ |  /sys$common/mozilla/plugins/libnullplugin.so $ | [OpenVMS status is decimal 114690] | $l | F | This problem occurs when the file protection of the COMPREG.DAT file9 | is incorrect. When Mozilla is first installed, the file J | [.COMPONENTS]COMPREG.DAT is correctly protected as W:RE. This protectionH | is required for a non-privileged user to run Mozilla. However, after aK | privileged user has run Mozilla, the protection on COMPREG.DAT is changede= | to W:. A non-privileged user is then unable to run Mozilla.o |tI | To correct the problem, change the protection on COMPREG.DAT to W:RE asl
 | follows:/ | $ SET DEFAULT SYS$COMMON:[MOZILLA.COMPONENTS] # | $ SET FILE /PROT=W:RE COMPREG.DATt  @ [Release Notes (available in PDF from the HP web site), page 13]    8 I don't know of course if this will solve your problems.   Michaele   -- t; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.o@ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system..5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:43:37 +0100e* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>6 Subject: Re: Mozilla for OpenVMS Alpha V1.5 available!/ Message-ID: <402F8599.4BE0056@sture.homeip.net>n   Michael Unger wrote: > * > On 2004-02-14 16:53, "Paul Sture" wrote: >  > > warren sander wrote: > >>J > >> I just pulled the kit, run the .exe and product installed the pcsi it  > >> creates and it worked fine. > >> > > K > > I've installed it OK, but it's doing something horrible with the colourlI > > map. The desktop and other application windows turn various shades ofAI > > blue, although this changes back when when I bring another app to theeL > > foreground, and it's back to normal when I minimize Mozilla. The url bar/ > > is also black and I cannot see what I type.I >  > | Hardware Prerequisites@ > | Mozilla for OpenVMS is available only on the Alpha platform.F > | If you encounter color problems when running Mozilla on an 8-planeL > | video mode system, it is likely that you are running another applicationM > | that uses a large number of colors (Navigator V3 is such an application).fL > | In this situation, start Mozilla before you start the other application.N > | These problems usually do not occur on a 16 or 24-plane video mode system. > A > [Release Notes (available in PDF from the HP web site), page 2]o > H > > When run from an account with only NETMBCX and TMPMBX privileges, it3 > > gives  %SYSTEM-F-NOPRIV on the following files:l > >iF > > [VMS$COMMON.MOZILLA.COMPONENTS]XPTI.DAT;1 - 6 times on READ access > >aF > > [VMS$COMMON.MOZILLA.CHROME]CHROME.RDF;1 - multiple times some READ# > > access, some READ,WRITE access.e > 5 > | Mozilla Fails to Start Up For Non-Privileged UsermG > | All versions of Mozilla for OpenVMS contain a problem where MozillacG > | will not start up for a non-privileged user, but does start and runiI > | for a privileged user. When this problem occurs, an error message mayu) > | or may not be displayed. For example:a > |a" > | $ @sys$common:[mozilla]mozilla > | Starting mozilla-bin...d3 > | LoadPlugin: failed to initialize shared library21 > |  /sys$common/mozilla/plugins/libnullplugin.som& > | [OpenVMS status is decimal 114690] > | $  > |BH > | This problem occurs when the file protection of the COMPREG.DAT file; > | is incorrect. When Mozilla is first installed, the file L > | [.COMPONENTS]COMPREG.DAT is correctly protected as W:RE. This protectionJ > | is required for a non-privileged user to run Mozilla. However, after aM > | privileged user has run Mozilla, the protection on COMPREG.DAT is changedU? > | to W:. A non-privileged user is then unable to run Mozilla.  > |gK > | To correct the problem, change the protection on COMPREG.DAT to W:RE as1 > | follows:1 > | $ SET DEFAULT SYS$COMMON:[MOZILLA.COMPONENTS]b% > | $ SET FILE /PROT=W:RE COMPREG.DAT: > B > [Release Notes (available in PDF from the HP web site), page 13] > : > I don't know of course if this will solve your problems. >    I'll try that, thanks.   -- o
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2004 21:23:51 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t Subject: Re: New account3 Message-ID: <0RWtsi1bWgiU@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  c In article <X4ydnWSAve_mULPdRVn-ug@adelphia.com>, "Rodney Kelp" <rodneykelp605@hotmail.com> writes:   L > What are the commands used to create a new user account? What privs do you > need to do it? (Open VMS)i  B The general program you need is AUTHORIZE.  It requires one of the@ privileges in the ALL category, which is described in the second bullet list at  E http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732FINAL/aa-q2hlg-te/00/01/120-con.html   G I refrain from being more specific because you should not run AUTHORIZE 0 unless you understand the concepts in that book.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 05:29:05 +0100i2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: Re: New account; Message-ID: <402ef591.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   . Rodney Kelp (rodneykelp605@hotmail.com) wrote:: > What are the commands used to create a new user account?   $ @SYS$EXAMPLES:ADDUSER.COMe  , creates a new user account using a dialogue.  E For details on how to fine tune account flags, quotas, etc. using the D AUTHORIZE utility, please read the appropriate chapter in the System5 Manager's Manual at http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/doc/   " > What privs do you need to do it?  B You need write access to the SYSUAF and RIGHTSLIST files, e.g. via SYSPRV privilege.-   cu,e   Martin -- 0D One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules!7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deeJ One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:13:59 +0000 (UTC)o( From: ExGuardianReader <noway@noway.com>G Subject: Re: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says articleo0 Message-ID: <c0n9o7$hsg$1@sparta.btinternet.com>  ' Not to be "thrusted"??? fnarr fnarr!!!!    (I'll get me coat)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 00:22:54 +1300t1 From: Tux Wonder-Dog <wes.parish@paradise.net.nz>aG Subject: Re: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says article 4 Message-ID: <%HIXb.24337$ws.3009226@news02.tsnz.net>   JF Mezei wrote::  L > From an auditing point of view, isn't open-source better since auditors atH > the user site can in fact look at the source code whereas when you buyJ > pre-compiled software you have no way to verify that there are no hidden9 > treasures that could be nefarous to your organisation ?   > I've always understood that to be one of its major drawcards. K Interestingly, that is the very same reason that the New Zealand Government G gave me last year when I queried (rather publicly, in ComputerWorld NZ):H their signing up to the Microsoft GSP program - with the source at least+ readable, they weren't quite so vulnerable.>  E Still doesn't fit the bill of course - imagine the joy of WW II navalnF fighter pilots at finding that fixing the P&W or RR engine has to takeI place at a specific (Atlantic) depot, and that depot is six weeks sailingh@ time behind them (in the Pacific).  Ditto undercarriage, radios, hydraulics, etc ...r  I You can't run any organization facing publicly accessible vulnerabilitiesc
 like that!  
 Wesley ParishW -- oG "Good, late in to more rewarding well."  "Well, you tonight.  And I was.K lookintelligent woman of Ming home.  I trust you with a tender silence."  IkC get a word into my hands, a different and unbelike, probably - 'she = fortunate fat woman', wrong word.  I think to me, I justupid.sG Let not emacs meta-X dissociate-press write your romantic dialogs...!!!T   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 06:58:24 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> G Subject: RE: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says articles9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIGEEACNAA.tom@kednos.com>C  G Having open source at least allows you to inspect the code.  Of course,BH you also need the source to the compiler you are using to ensure that itL doesn't install a trojan horse in compiled applications.  I believe this wasL commented on by the Air Force when Multics got its B2 rating (30 years ago?)     -----Original Message-----:   From: Tux Wonder-Dog [mailto:wes.parish@paradise.net.nz])   Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 3:23 AMn   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComaI   Subject: Re: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says articleK       JF Mezei wrote:;  B   > From an auditing point of view, isn't open-source better since
   auditors at[J   > the user site can in fact look at the source code whereas when you buyL   > pre-compiled software you have no way to verify that there are no hidden;   > treasures that could be nefarous to your organisation ?l  ?   I've always understood that to be one of its major drawcards.tB   Interestingly, that is the very same reason that the New Zealand   GovernmentI   gave me last year when I queried (rather publicly, in ComputerWorld NZ)sJ   their signing up to the Microsoft GSP program - with the source at least-   readable, they weren't quite so vulnerable.o  G   Still doesn't fit the bill of course - imagine the joy of WW II naval H   fighter pilots at finding that fixing the P&W or RR engine has to takeK   place at a specific (Atlantic) depot, and that depot is six weeks sailing1B   time behind them (in the Pacific).  Ditto undercarriage, radios,   hydraulics, etc ...   K   You can't run any organization facing publicly accessible vulnerabilities    like that!     Wesley Parishp   --I   "Good, late in to more rewarding well."  "Well, you tonight.  And I wasc@   lookintelligent woman of Ming home.  I trust you with a tender   silence."  IE   get a word into my hands, a different and unbelike, probably - 'sheb?   fortunate fat woman', wrong word.  I think to me, I justupid.xI   Let not emacs meta-X dissociate-press write your romantic dialogs...!!!      --- (   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B   Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004   ----& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Feb 2004 15:39:25 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)G Subject: Re: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says articlen: Message-ID: <c0o3rd$18b6os$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  9 In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIGEEACNAA.tom@kednos.com>, & 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:I > Having open source at least allows you to inspect the code.  Of course,aJ > you also need the source to the compiler you are using to ensure that itN > doesn't install a trojan horse in compiled applications.  I believe this wasN > commented on by the Air Force when Multics got its B2 rating (30 years ago?) >   5 Read "Reflections on Trusting Trust" by Ken Thompson.   " http://www.acm.org/classics/sep95/   bill   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:42:18 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>lG Subject: RE: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says articlee9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIKEEBCNAA.tom@kednos.com>N     -----Original Message-----F   From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu]On Behalf Of   Bill Gunshannon )   Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 7:39 AM-   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComeI   Subject: Re: Open Source developers are not to be thrusted says article     ;   In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIGEEACNAA.tom@kednos.com>, (   	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:K   > Having open source at least allows you to inspect the code.  Of course,wL   > you also need the source to the compiler you are using to ensure that it?   > doesn't install a trojan horse in compiled applications.  It   believe this was@   > commented on by the Air Force when Multics got its B2 rating   (30 years ago?)v  ( I was wrong on the date it was Aug 1985." http://www.multicians.org/mgb.html  7   Read "Reflections on Trusting Trust" by Ken Thompson.t  $   http://www.acm.org/classics/sep95/     bill     --L   Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF   bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.   University of Scranton   |@   Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>     ---t(   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B   Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004   --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:53:29 GMT," From: GreyCloud <mist@Cumulus.com>Y Subject: Re: OT: Another American arrested in Brazil after making obscene gesture gestureB7 Message-ID: <duNXb.806$ss.22636@bcandid.telisphere.com>r   Keith A. Lewis wrote:]   > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) writes in article <f30679fb.0402071141.50370950@posting.google.com> dated 7 Feb 2004 11:41:43 -0800:s > A >>What is happening with the americans ? I allways had admirationa >>for the American minds...  >  > Q > The US population is proof that engineering and diplomacy are not correllated.   > N > I was in Cartegena, Colombia in the summer of 2001 as an US tourist.  It's aN > historical port city that also has beaches.  A couple of days before I left,L > a US navy ship tied up and unleashed several hundred marines.  If I didn'tM > know what an "ugly american" was before that, I sure do now!  Yelling "five0J > dolla!" from the city's open-air busses at passing schoolgirls, not evenM > attempting to speak Spanish, those guys turned a fun town into a shithole. 07 > I was embarassed for my country and happy to leave.  0  D Yep.  Somebodys' ill bred brat that turned into a marine.  It is an  embarrassment.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2004 07:09:23 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 3 Subject: Re: OT: Windows has become open source :-)03 Message-ID: <wfETfiIBaryF@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  w In article <c0kj9r$siu$8@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:   I > This is a misunderstanding.  Nothing can "fall into the public domain".0J > In order for something to get into the public domain, the author has to  > say this explicitly.   I disagree.0  @ > See http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html for details.   So does that page:  @ 	"(*) Copyrights can expire after a long time, putting something@ 	 into the public domain, and there are some fine points on this0 	 issue regarding older copyright law versions."  @ In what way do you feel that a copyright "expiring" differs from  "falls into the public domain" ?  @ Certainly the works of Bach and Mozart are in the public domain,( but "Happy Birthday" is not (in the US).   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:11:02 -05000. From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart-nospam@gce.com>3 Subject: Re: OT: Windows has become open source :-)03 Message-ID: <402f8c15$0$3104$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>0  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:0  5 > In article <wfETfiIBaryF@eisner.encompasserve.org>,02 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  >  > J >>>This is a misunderstanding.  Nothing can "fall into the public domain".K >>>In order for something to get into the public domain, the author has to 0 >>>say this explicitly.0 >>
 >>I disagree.0 >> >>A >>>See http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html for details.0 >> >>So does that page: >>B >>	"(*) Copyrights can expire after a long time, putting somethingB >>	 into the public domain, and there are some fine points on this2 >>	 issue regarding older copyright law versions." >>B >>In what way do you feel that a copyright "expiring" differs from" >>"falls into the public domain" ? >>B >>Certainly the works of Bach and Mozart are in the public domain,* >>but "Happy Birthday" is not (in the US). >  > E > I don't see any sign that Microsoft will fail to renew the Windows  H > copyright.  The thread was about some Windows code being available on F > the internet in unauthorized form.  This a) does not make it public 9 > domain and b) has nothing to do with copyright renewal.P > K > Back to the quote above: as I said, something can be put EXPLICITLY into cJ > the public domain (which does NOT automatically happen if it happens to H > show up in a public place); otherwise, copyright has to expire and/or I > different rules might apply to old works (Windows isn't considered old f > in this context).c > D This is a confusion between copyright and trade secret. Trade secret@ status can indeed be lost by widespread publication (though some< courts like to pretend no such took place in cases where theA original secret holder didn't want to publish). Copyright expiresc? eventually (i.e., hopefully before the next Ice Age). To reduceeE the length of "eventually" one has to beat on one's congress-crittersb> (or equivalent if not in US) to inject some cluefulness on the> issue. Blocking the regular bribing by lobbyists may be needed first...   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2004 08:57:16 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)3 Subject: Re: OT: Windows has become open source :-) = Message-ID: <f30679fb.0402150857.7e133e11@posting.google.com>   | helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote in message news:<c0m9pe$3lj$1@online.de>...5 > In article <wfETfiIBaryF@eisner.encompasserve.org>,d2 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  > M > > > This is a misunderstanding.  Nothing can "fall into the public domain".oN > > > In order for something to get into the public domain, the author has to  > > > say this explicitly. > >  > > I disagree.i > > D > > > See http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html for details. > >  > > So does that page: > > D > > 	"(*) Copyrights can expire after a long time, putting somethingD > > 	 into the public domain, and there are some fine points on this4 > > 	 issue regarding older copyright law versions." > > D > > In what way do you feel that a copyright "expiring" differs from$ > > "falls into the public domain" ? > > D > > Certainly the works of Bach and Mozart are in the public domain,, > > but "Happy Birthday" is not (in the US). > E > I don't see any sign that Microsoft will fail to renew the Windows  H > copyright.  The thread was about some Windows code being available on F > the internet in unauthorized form.  This a) does not make it public 9 > domain and b) has nothing to do with copyright renewal.  > K > Back to the quote above: as I said, something can be put EXPLICITLY into hJ > the public domain (which does NOT automatically happen if it happens to H > show up in a public place); otherwise, copyright has to expire and/or I > different rules might apply to old works (Windows isn't considered old a > in this context).e    = May be the CODE scaped from Mainsoft site. I read in the newsa  & http://www.mainsoft.com/statement.html   Regardsh   FC   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 23:08:31 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)3 Subject: Re: OT: Windows has become open source :-)?$ Message-ID: <c0m9pe$3lj$1@online.de>  3 In article <wfETfiIBaryF@eisner.encompasserve.org>,40 Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:   K > > This is a misunderstanding.  Nothing can "fall into the public domain".2L > > In order for something to get into the public domain, the author has to  > > say this explicitly. > 
 > I disagree.  > B > > See http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html for details. >  > So does that page: > B > 	"(*) Copyrights can expire after a long time, putting somethingB > 	 into the public domain, and there are some fine points on this2 > 	 issue regarding older copyright law versions." > B > In what way do you feel that a copyright "expiring" differs from" > "falls into the public domain" ? > B > Certainly the works of Bach and Mozart are in the public domain,* > but "Happy Birthday" is not (in the US).  C I don't see any sign that Microsoft will fail to renew the Windows =F copyright.  The thread was about some Windows code being available on D the internet in unauthorized form.  This a) does not make it public 7 domain and b) has nothing to do with copyright renewal.   I Back to the quote above: as I said, something can be put EXPLICITLY into 0H the public domain (which does NOT automatically happen if it happens to F show up in a public place); otherwise, copyright has to expire and/or G different rules might apply to old works (Windows isn't considered old r in this context)./   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 01:34:00 +08001, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>J Subject: Re: page- and swap-files, autogen, modparams.dat, file-naming etc- Message-ID: <87k72ont6f.fsf@prep.synonet.com>d  , denny.rich@swagelok.com (Denny Rich) writes:  D > AUTOGEN doesn't really care about the pagefile names.  Remove themF > from modparams.dat. YOu could name them "dog.hair", or "cat.fur", or5 > "vmem_a.page" or "pagefile_1.sys" or anything else.   C No, call them AAA<nodename>.PAGE or SWAP, and put them in [000000].a   So why?g  D First, you can auto add them at mount time if they exist on the disk> you are mounting. Plug in the node name, and viola! Ditto whenA dismounting, plus you can find the page/swap files of OTHER nodesi2 before you wedge the disk in mount/dismount state.  C Second, it will be (almost certainly) the first file backup puts oneC the disk, smack bang in the centre*, just where we want it, totally-6 automagically. This is a nice free performance helper.  3 *for a zoned value of centre on many modern drives.A   -- E< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:03:16 +0100e+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>w5 Subject: Re: Split CI farm MSCP=1 TMSCP=1 ALLOCLASS=1 : Message-ID: <c0ngdi$18dder$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>  7 "John Brandon" <brandon@dalsemi.com> schreef in berichts+ news:04021413104256@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com...-' > I have a three node Alpha CI cluster.0 >0' > Two of the nodes have one CI SC (#1):s- > controllers with MSCP allocation class    1 - >                  TMSCP allocation class   1c  > SYSGEN with      ALLOCLASS = 1 >l >d$ > The other node has one CI SC (#2):- > controllers with MSCP allocation class    1n- >                  TMSCP allocation class   1c  > SYSGEN with      ALLOCLASS = 1 >e >n= > I believe this to be a "less than desirable" configuration.  >aH > 1) The ALLOCLASS = 1 allows locally served disks (as there is) to have possible( > conflicts (i.e., DKA500 as $1$DKA500:) >=H > 2) The MSCP/TMSCP allocation class 1 on all the controllers in both CI arraysK > to also have possible conflicts.  I already have duplicated disks on both4	 > arrays.3 >LL > The problem is mounting disks /SYSTEM or /CLUSTER - in either case it will7 > cause device conflicts and therefore can not be done.0 >  > My thoughts are to:t' >  Set the ALLOCLASS = 0 on all servers:4 >  Leave CI SC (#1) MSCP/TMSCP allocation class at 12 >  Set CI SC (#2) MSCP/TMSCP allocation class to 2 >h0 > Anyone care to contribute their 2-cents worth? >eL The rules for ALLOCLASS changed somewhere during VMS 7.x so my two cents mayK be highly deflated. In a cluster you need to have ALLOCLASS set to the samedL value for those servers that serve the same disk(s). The disks are either onK a common bus (shared SCSI) or behind a hierarchical controller (CI). So twoaK HSC controllers that shared RA disks, had to have the same ALLOCLASS. A VMS K system that shared a dual ported to a disk with another VMS system required_, both VMS systems to have the same ALLOCLASS.I In an NI cluster where all disks are local, say two VAX systems, each VAXd( node must have a unique ALLOCLASS value.L My 2 cents, but the base currency may still be useless, like old guilders...   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:37:22 -0800U3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>_& Subject: Re: stupid smtp/mapi question. Message-ID: <402EA322.6070503@Flying-Disk.com>  
 Rut wrote:H > Thanks for all your responses. Basically what I want to do is get awayD > from MAPI calls and send mail directly using smtp. I'm looking for= > sample code that shows how to send an email with/without ant
 > attachment.c  A I have a program written in DEC/Compaq/HP BASIC on VMS which doesa@ exactly that.   If you want a copy of it, just send me an e-mail? (de-mung in the obvious manner first).   If you are not runningn' VMS, it will not be much help, however.m   Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:06:16 -0600 % From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>m Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-29 Message-ID: <2rvXb.11733$_66.11325@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>n  1 Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message.! news:402CA216.AA396C8D@aaa.com...o > Mike Naime wrote:i > > J > > Our App will not be certified for 7.3-2 until sometime in June.  So noI > > production clusters at this time.  July, August, and September shouldd see(J > > some 100+ OS packs  upgraded to 7.3-2.  I'm hoping that they will have then( > > first update patch out by then.  :-) >.3 > Any special reason you are *hoping* for a patch ?t7 > Wouldn't it be better if no patch was needed at all ?y  L It's more of a lazy sysadmin maintenance issue.   One patch to apply instead of 2 dozen.x   > Jan-Erik.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:07:33 -0600u% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>n Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-29 Message-ID: <fsvXb.11740$_66.10375@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>-  ? Bradford J. Hamilton <brad@.gateway.2wire.net> wrote in message5' news:nu5Xb.26163$jk2.65952@attbi_s53...aK > In article <OwGe8OwycYuk@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.netp (Larry Kilgallen) writes:w3 > !In article <402CA216.AA396C8D@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik 2 =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes: > !> Mike Naime wrote: > !>>oL > !>> Our App will not be certified for 7.3-2 until sometime in June.  So noK > !>> production clusters at this time.  July, August, and September shouldr seeTL > !>> some 100+ OS packs  upgraded to 7.3-2.  I'm hoping that they will have thei* > !>> first update patch out by then.  :-) > !>6 > !> Any special reason you are *hoping* for a patch ?: > !> Wouldn't it be better if no patch was needed at all ? > !h< > !For those who don't use Command Recall or F$ENVIRONMENT ? > !-@ > !http://eisner.decus.org/DECUServe/DECnotes/VMS/2841.2006.HTML >eK > I think Mike meant that applying one "UPDATE" ECO is easier than applying.> > numerous "single" ECO's at multiple customer sites. correct?   That is it exactly!e  L > __________________________________________________________________________C > Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own"hL > bMradAhamiPltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt     "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-'2 >                                          with @"   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 01:43:57 +0800e, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?"- Message-ID: <87fzdcnspu.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   , Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:   > John Laird wrote:W >> sM >> On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:37:34 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>-	 >> wrote:  >> e= >> >jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) writes:h >> >J >> >> I was told about this problem with VMS when I was managing a VAX 750C >> >> using VMS 2.5 (1982) by someone who ran a VAX/VMS timesharing  >> >D >> >I think you may be confusing a few details. AIR, the 7xx support+ >> >didn't appear and work until 3.x or so.g >>  M >> Given that V1.0 only ran on a 780, I don't understand your last statement. 5 >> What do you think 1.x and 2.x supported, exactly ?s  + 1.0 , 780 with mainly RSX 16 bit utilities.gN 2.0 , 780 with more 32 bit stuff and DSC2 (I think... Fiche are 20 miles away)@                                                                 M  >> The 750 arrived around the same time as 2.0 (1980?)  The 730 and 3.0 alsoe* >> arrived at about the same time (1982?). >> a >e> > From page 60 of the "OpenVMS at 20 Nothing Stops it book" at >n) > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/20th/  >s1 > V2 April 1980 contained support for the 11/750.nA > V3 April 1982 contained support for the 11/730, 11/725, 11/782.)8                                                      ^^^  B That I KNOW is wrong. The first 725 was at DECUS Vegas in Fall 83.E The prototypes used a 11/44 box witha UDA-50 in them, and where quite-B nice. The IDC production ones sucked big time. The 725 had to have= MSCP drivers plus the R80/RL02 driver and that was after 3.0.   D There was a 730 I worked on. SLow as hell, but it HAD fallen severalE thousand feet down a coal mine shaft into the water at the bottom, sor6 we put up with it and marveled that it worked at all!!   -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.c@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:21:26 -0800-* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>F Subject: Re: will these non-DEC disks work with my hobbyist equipment?2 Message-ID: <nr6dnZpexrraHrPdRVn-vw@mpowercom.net>  L "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de>/ wrote in message news:c0kinl$siu$6@online.de...>H > > I'd recommend you not use the Fireball drives.  In the past I've had quite aeK > > bit of trouble with them on VMS systems.  I think the command tag queuem > > doesn't work.h >eF > Is this something one would notice right away, or only after a time? >dK I used some 3.2 and 4.0 GB Fireballs on a MV 3100 and a Multia both runninghI VMS 7.1.  At first the drives worked okay, but eventually failed on largebJ backup copies.  Fortunately it was just an experiment.  The Fireballs wereI the only drives (and it failed on 3 of them) that had a problem.  I triedyI some old Micropolis drives, 2210, 2217, worked fine, as did every Seagatee and IBM drive I've tried.y  E The Fireball drives did work okay running NT4 on the Multia.  BTW the(F Fireball drives are anything but a fireball; they are the slowest SCSIH drives I've ever used, rivaling old 3600RPM drives for sluggish response time.    Jack Peacock   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:47:17 +0000 (UTC) 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)C Subject: Re: [DCL] Quitting DELETE/CONFIRM doesn't stop immediatelyi1 Message-ID: <newscache$1483th$vj61$1@news.sil.at>T  Y In article <402e5f97$0$28932$626a14ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:m! >Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:RL >> If I do a DELETE/CONFIRM/LOG on a large directory (tree) and I "Q"uit it,M >> then it seems it continues until the end of the filelist (without deletingaL >> any more files of course) before it finally writes the summary and quits. >> WE >> Is this the intended behaviour (sometimes taking umteen minutes) ?eP >> Why is in DELETE.EXE no short way from quitting the fileloop to the summary ? >  >Which VMS ?   Every VMS so far.a  R >I just did a test on VMS Alpha 7.3-1 and did not notice the effect you described.  7 It did happen on V7.3-1 and does happen on V7.3-2, too.l  A Maybe you need a bigger directory (tree) to see the difference...    -- n Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERP% Network and OpenVMS system specialiste E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.091 ************************