0 INFO-VAX	Tue, 17 Feb 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 94      Contents:$ Re: Analyzing TCPIP network failuresP Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? this?tF Combined articles OpenVMS Technical journal now available for download5 Re: DCL procedure to find and delete unused accounts? 5 Re: DCL procedure to find and delete unused accounts?  DESTA Director RWASTs  RE: Easiest way..  RE: Easiest way.. 
 Easiest way..  Re: Easiest way..  Re: Easiest way.. ( Re: ExtraOffice Client Problem (I think) RE: Hobbyist questions?  Horrible Tragedy Horrible Tragedy< Re: HP Launches Largest-ever Enterprise Advertising Campaign Important Questions! Important Questions!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! Re: LG06 Documentation Re: LG06 Documentation Re: Microvax vs Vaxstation 3100  Re: Microvax vs Vaxstation 3100  New England folks - LUG meeting  Re: OpenVMS Feelings Re: OpenVMS Feelings Re: OpenVMS Feelings Re: OpenVMS Feelings@ Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus studyK Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... ...... P Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... again! ... P Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... again! ... P Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... again! ...  Re: PSION, another Digital5 Re: puzzle involving ALLOCLASS and SET VOLUME/REBUILD 1 Re: Shipping Alpha computers overseas - OK to do? 1 Re: Shipping Alpha computers overseas - OK to do? 4 Re: Solved: "Known problems with V7.3 security MUP?" Re: VAX/VMS Consultant Needed.. 0 VMS 7.2-2 IDE Boot on AXP164SX (EB164 Variation)
 Re: VMS 7.3-2  Where to get SWXCRMGR for VMS? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? RE: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?& Re: Windows has become open source :-) Re: XDM problems Re: XDM problems1 Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full 1 Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full 1 Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full 1 Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 02:47:32 GMT 0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com>- Subject: Re: Analyzing TCPIP network failures = Message-ID: <8bWXb.60399$Wa.38709@news-server.bigpond.net.au>    Hi JF,  H > 1- It would be neat if there were some hook in the inetACP such that a process G > could be notified  whenever a connection attempt from the VMS host to  another 
 > host fails.   K You need to provide a keepalive function in the appliation, either with TCP I keepalive socket option (SO_KEEPALIVE) or roll your own if you don't like E the syconfig defaults.  You could turn on keepalive system wide with:   L     $ sysconfig -r inet tcp_keepalive_default=1 tcp_keepidle=x tcp_keepcnt=y tcp_keepintvl=z   L When keepalive_default is enabled, then by default (in V5.4) keepalives willC be sent after 2 hours (tcp_keeidle=14400) and then every 75 seconds = (tcp_keepintvl=150).  If there is no response after 8 retries / (tcp_keepcnt=8), then the connection is closed.   L > 2- In cases where you suspect a network failure somewhere upstream, how do you  > track it down ?   @ As per the previous reply - traceroute, ping, tcpdump, snmp etc.  L > Do you hardcode specific IP adresses of upstream routers to ping to see at0 > what point connectivity would have been lost ?   No, you use keepalives.    Matt.    --  = -------------------------------------------------------------  OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Hewlett-Packard Company  Gold Coast, AUSTRALIA = -------------------------------------------------------------     7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:402A59E4.3968A9FD@istop.com... H > 1- It would be neat if there were some hook in the inetACP such that a process G > could be notified  whenever a connection attempt from the VMS host to  another 
 > host fails.  >  > L > 2- In cases where you suspect a network failure somewhere upstream, how do you  > track it down ?  > L > Do you hardcode specific IP adresses of upstream routers to ping to see atG > what point connectivity would have been lost ?  (if the path to a DNS  server6 > is gone, you may not be able to ping by host name) ? > J > If you keep the IP addresses of relevant routers in a command procedure, how 5 > often to you check to ensure they are still valid ?  > I > In a similar vein, is there a trick to get a local DNS server to always  keepH > an updated copy in cache of a list of host names (that don't belong to you) ? > K > This way, in case of a ISP's DNS server failing, your own DNS would still  have  > IP adresses of relevant hosts.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:48:47 -0600 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> Y Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I prevent this? this?t 3 Message-ID: <403156DF.27D57B1E@applied-synergy.com>    Z wrote: > B > Is there a way to get DUMP to dump all the blocks (I tried using@ > /BLOCKS/COUNT=8 but that still gave me only 4 blocks of data)?= > Then I could verify that, for example, block 5 is different 4 > between the original and the Copy/NoTruncate copy.   Try DUMP/ALLOCATED.   G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2004 14:14:25 -08001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) O Subject: Combined articles OpenVMS Technical journal now available for download = Message-ID: <857e9e41.0402161414.6ce39936@posting.google.com>   4 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/index.html  7 We had some earlier problems which have been resolved.    
 Warm Regards,  Sue    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2004 11:10:16 -08000 From: dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com (Dave Baxter)> Subject: Re: DCL procedure to find and delete unused accounts?= Message-ID: <a3c44af1.0402161110.6620b36e@posting.google.com>   o "Stephen Eickhoff" <operagost@example.com> wrote in message news:<HEtXb.21578$1S1.5833@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>... F > Just so I don't have to reinvent the wheel, has anyone written a DCLM > procedure to find users that haven't logged in for a certain amount of time  > and disable or delete them?   E I have exactly what you need.     I wrote it myself about 8 years ago 6 and have been running it weekly, in batch, ever since.  ? Basically, it identifies accounts which have not been used in a C definable period, (in my case 60 days) and expires them.    It also B checks for accounts which have been expired for a definable periodC (again, in my case 60 days) and deletes them (although this is your 	 choice.).   2 If you're interested, send me an email or call me.   Dave Baxter  (602) 495-4771  = p.s.   It might require some work to make it specific to your 	 location.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:11:19 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>> Subject: Re: DCL procedure to find and delete unused accounts?) Message-ID: <40316A36.47C911AB@istop.com>    Dave Baxter wrote:A > Basically, it identifies accounts which have not been used in a E > definable period, (in my case 60 days) and expires them.    It also D > checks for accounts which have been expired for a definable periodE > (again, in my case 60 days) and deletes them (although this is your  > choice.).   N How do you determine that an account was expired 60 days ago ?  Or do you just4 delete accounts that have been unused for 120 days ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:18:34 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: DESTA Director RWASTs6 Message-ID: <4030287A.C5BA5156@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Folks,  H We have an on-going problem with DESTA Director in (the product formerlyE known as Compaq Analyze) sometimes referred to as "WEBES". Before you C ask the version, assume all versions V4.x and later as the repeated C upgrades requested by the CSC have failed to solve the problem. VMS  versions V7.2-2 and later.  C The "DESTA Director" process leaks BIOLM and eventually hangs in an 7 RWAST state with a BIOCNT (remaining BIOLM) of zero(0).   F Does anyone here in userland know the cause and/or a possible fix? The3 authors and the support folks appear to be stumped.   G In this specific case, the RWAST can be cleared by issuing a DESTA STOP E command, waiting for that timeout, then go into SDA, find all the MBA H devices being held open by the process, and COPY the null device (NLA0:)B to them one by one so that outstanding I/Os will complete (with an@ end-of-file condition). (I have some DCL that does this for me.)   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 12:46:42 -0700 B From: "Tillman, Brian (AGRE)" <Brian.Tillman@smiths-aerospace.com> Subject: RE: Easiest way..O Message-ID: <11721EF39C7D7F47A55447158274CAF7A59290@cossmgmbx01.email.corp.tld>    briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:   - >> What would be the simplest way to do this?  >=0D= > $ BACKUP DISK1:[XPS...] DISK2:[XAS...] /BY_OWNER=3DORIGINAL   A $ backup/interchange disk1:[xps...] disk2:[xas...]/owner=3Dparent   H is my typical approach (assumes [XAS} has the needed ACLs on it already.  2 Here's a command procedure I use to move projects:   $!  MOVE_PROJECT.COM $!E $!  This command procedure copies a project from one disk to another.  It=0D B $!  takes two parameters:  P1 is the current logical disk name and directory=0DF $!  of the project to be moved.  P2 is the physical disk name to which the=0DG $!  project is to be moved.  For example, to move The TeX support files  from=0D E $!  their current disk to another, say $1$du47, the command would be:  $!* $!  $ @move_project tex_disk:[tex] $1$du47 $! $!  or $!? $!  $ submit/param=3D("tex_disk:[tex]", "$1$du47") move_project  $!. $   write sys$output "Moving ", p1, " to ", p2 $!E $!  Set up the definitions.  Strip any colons from disk names.  Strip  brackets $!  from directories.  $! $   sysman  =3D "$sysman"  $   nodiskquota =3D %x100003e4 $   normal =3D 1 $   qfnotact =3D %x100003d4  $   newdisk =3D p2 - ":"' $   logdisk =3D f$element( 0, ":", p1 ) ) $   olddisk =3D f$trnlnm( logdisk ) - ":" 0 $   if olddisk .eqs. "" then olddisk =3D logdisk3 $   projdir =3D f$element( 1, ":", p1 ) - "[" - "]"  $!7 $!  Obtain the owner of the original project directory.  $! $   set process/privilege=3Dall I $   own =3D f$file_attributes( "''olddisk':[000000]''projdir'.dir", "uic"  )  $   status =3D $status
 $   if status  $   then $!B $!      Run SYSMAN to place the project's current quota in a file. $!+ $       if f$trnlnm( "sysmanini" ) .eqs. ""  $       then $! $           saveini =3D "" $! $       else $!/ $           saveini =3D f$trnlnm( "sysmanini" )  $!
 $       endif  $       create 'projdir'.ini& $       open/append init 'projdir'.ini& $       write init "set timeout 0:1:0" $       close init& $       define sysmanini 'projdir'.iniJ $       sysman diskquota show/out=3D'projdir'.lis/device=3D'olddisk' 'own'( $       if $status      ! A quota exists $       then $!J $!          Read the file to obtain the quota, skipping any unnecessary=0D8 $!		records.  Place the quota on the new project device. $!" $           open quo 'projdir'.lis $!	 $ readit:  $           read quo quorecord> $           quorecord =3D f$edit( quorecord, "compress,trim" )3 $           user =3D f$element( 0, " ", quorecord ) . $           if user .nes. own then goto readit4 $           quota =3D f$element( 2, " ", quorecord ) $           close quo " $           delete 'projdir'.lis;* $           set noonG $           sysman diskquota add/device=3D'newdisk'/permquota=3D'quota'  'own'  $           set on $!
 $       endif  $!J $!      Obtain the current directory's protection mask.  Create the new=0D? $!	  project directory with the same protection mask as the old  directory. =0D> $!	  Copy the ACL from the old directory to the new directory. $!H $       prot =3D f$file_attributes( "''olddisk':[000000]''projdir'.dir", "pro" ) 7 $       create/directory/owner=3D'own'/prot=3D('prot')=   'newdisk':['projdir']F $       set acl/like=3Dobject_name=3D'olddisk':[000000]'projdir'.dir -+             'newdisk':[000000]'projdir'.dir  $!H $!      Change the project disk logical name to point to the new disk on all F $!      cluster nodes, but only if a logical disk name was supplied in the  $!      source parameter.  $!  $       if logdisk .nes. olddisk $       then $!* $           open/append init 'projdir'.ini0 $           write init "set environment/cluster"/ $           write init "set profile/priv=3Dall"  $           close initE $           sysman do define/system/exec/tran=3D(conc,term) 'logdisk' 
 'newdisk': $!
 $       endif  $       delete 'projdir'.ini;  $       if saveini .eqs. ""  $       then $! $           deassign sysmanini $! $       else $!& $           define sysmanini 'saveini' $!
 $       endif  $!C $!      Copy the files from the old directory to the new directory.  $!< $       backup/verify/interchange 'olddisk':['projdir'...] -3             'newdisk':['projdir'...] /owner=3D'own'  $!F $!      Set the protection mask of subdirectory files to match the top level. $!? $       set protection=3D('prot') 'newdisk':['projdir'...]*.dir  $       status =3D normal  $!	 $   endif  $   exit status  --=0D  Brian Tillman        =0D Smiths Aerospace 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS 1B3 Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991 > Brian.Tillman is the name, smiths-aerospace.com is the domain.	       =0D : I don't speak for Smiths, and Smiths doesn't speak for me.      * ******************************************G The information contained in, or attached to, this e-mail, may contain= D  confidential information and is intended solely for the use of the=G  individual or entity to whom they are addressed and may be subject to= H  legal privilege.  If you have received this e-mail in error you should=H  notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail, delete the message from=L  your system and notify your system manager.  Please do not copy it for any=F  purpose, or disclose its contents to any other person.  The views or=I  opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do= G  not necessarily represent those of the company.  The recipient should= I  check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses.  The= A  company accepts no liability for any damage caused, directly or= 4  indirectly, by any virus transmitted in this email.* ******************************************   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2004 15:08:44 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: RE: Easiest way..3 Message-ID: <4EM$Fm2bZ1Bf@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <11721EF39C7D7F47A55447158274CAF7A59290@cossmgmbx01.email.corp.tld>, "Tillman, Brian (AGRE)" <Brian.Tillman@smiths-aerospace.com> writes: > ! > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  > . >>> What would be the simplest way to do this? >>< >> $ BACKUP DISK1:[XPS...] DISK2:[XAS...] /BY_OWNER=ORIGINAL > A > $ backup/interchange disk1:[xps...] disk2:[xas...]/owner=parent  > J > is my typical approach (assumes [XAS} has the needed ACLs on it already.  G Indeed.  If you have a fixed set of ACL's for the entire directory tree 9 that you want defaulted from the top level directory then J $ BACKUP /INTERCHANGE and $ COPY are your friends.  The files will inheritF default ACL's rather than their original ACLs.  (Choose BACKUP or COPYD depending on how you want to deal with UIC protection masks and file ownership).   B If, however, you have a carefully crafted set of ACL's that is notG the same at all points in the directory tree then $ BACKUP /INTERCHANGE A and $ COPY are your enemies.  The files will inherit default ACLs   rather than their original ACLs.  D In the latter case, you want $ BACKUP without /INTERCHANGE.  This isG the situation that OP has indicated he is challenged with.  If he's not A happy with the ACL handling in $ COPY, he won't be happy with the & ACL handling in $ BACKUP /INTERCHANGE.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:55:28 +0000 % From: David Gray <police@spamcop.net>  Subject: Easiest way..8 Message-ID: <4gb1309k07bldai1lkfo63d8nrb8f5fo5e@4ax.com>   Greetings all,    F Need to replicate an entire directory structure including  protections5 and ACLs to another with a slight change in the path     EG.      From   DISK1:[XPS...]   To DISK1:[XAS...]    C There are a few hundred directories than need recreating in the new  XAS tree.      I've tried     $ set default DISK1:[XAS] % $ copy/log DISK1:[XPS...]*.DIR 	[...]    But am not getting the ACLs.    + What would be the simplest way to do this?     Thanks in advance,   	Dave.     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:35:20 +0000 8 From: David McKenzie <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz> Subject: Re: Easiest way..C Message-ID: <4030b8b7$0$86370$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>    David Gray wrote:    > Greetings all, > H > Need to replicate an entire directory structure including  protections6 > and ACLs to another with a slight change in the path >  > EG.  >  > From > DISK1:[XPS...] >  > To > DISK1:[XAS...] > E > There are a few hundred directories than need recreating in the new  > XAS tree.  >  > I've tried >  > $ set default DISK1:[XAS] - > $ copy/log DISK1:[XPS...]*.DIR        [...]  >  > But am not getting the ACLs. > , > What would be the simplest way to do this? >  > Thanks in advance, > Dave.    backup     --   David McKenzie  remove rugby  - Web:            http://www.paradigm-shift.biz 7 Mail            David.McKenzie@paradigm-shift.rugby.biz    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 12:36:58 +0000 % From: David Gray <police@spamcop.net>  Subject: Re: Easiest way..8 Message-ID: <uae130dja1i54fdq4ai4q37flunr561hmr@4ax.com>   Cheers.   2 On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:35:20 +0000, David McKenzie* <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz> wrote:   >David Gray wrote: >  >> Greetings all,  >>  I >> Need to replicate an entire directory structure including  protections 7 >> and ACLs to another with a slight change in the path  >>   >> EG. >>   >> From  >> DISK1:[XPS...]  >>   >> To  >> DISK1:[XAS...]  >>  F >> There are a few hundred directories than need recreating in the new >> XAS tree. >>  
 >> I've tried  >>   >> $ set default DISK1:[XAS]. >> $ copy/log DISK1:[XPS...]*.DIR        [...] >>   >> But am not getting the ACLs.  >>  - >> What would be the simplest way to do this?  >>   >> Thanks in advance,  >> Dave. >  >backup    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:57:06 -0500 2 From: "Chris Moore" <chrismichael000@sympatico.ca>1 Subject: Re: ExtraOffice Client Problem (I think) 9 Message-ID: <xTbYb.2278$w65.243250@news20.bellglobal.com>   E Not familiar with ExtraOffice, but sounds like you need to do a $ Set + Terminal/HostSync to prevent buffer overrun     = "Dave Baxter" <dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com> wrote in message 7 news:a3c44af1.0402161021.65f92be1@posting.google.com... H > When I am connected to my host (OpenVMS 7.2-1) via Extra Office ClientD > (Version 6.4), and I try to "$ type" a large text file, it lists a3 > couple of pages and then terminates my session!!!  > H > Is this something to fix using the session setup parameters or is it a > VMS quota problem ?? >  > Dave.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 12:02:31 -0700 B From: "Tillman, Brian (AGRE)" <Brian.Tillman@smiths-aerospace.com>  Subject: RE: Hobbyist questions?O Message-ID: <11721EF39C7D7F47A55447158274CAF7A5927D@cossmgmbx01.email.corp.tld>    Hunter Goatley wrote:   > > I'm late answering this, but CMU-IP V6.3 ran on VAX/VMS V4.4 > through V4.7. =0D    I believe it also ran on V6.x. --=0D  Brian Tillman        =0D Smiths Aerospace 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS 1B3 Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991 > Brian.Tillman is the name, smiths-aerospace.com is the domain.	       =0D : I don't speak for Smiths, and Smiths doesn't speak for me.  * ******************************************G The information contained in, or attached to, this e-mail, may contain= D  confidential information and is intended solely for the use of the=G  individual or entity to whom they are addressed and may be subject to= H  legal privilege.  If you have received this e-mail in error you should=H  notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail, delete the message from=L  your system and notify your system manager.  Please do not copy it for any=F  purpose, or disclose its contents to any other person.  The views or=I  opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do= G  not necessarily represent those of the company.  The recipient should= I  check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses.  The= A  company accepts no liability for any damage caused, directly or= 4  indirectly, by any virus transmitted in this email.* ******************************************   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2004 21:34:21 -0000( From: Michael Voight <mvoight@cisco.com> Subject: Horrible Tragedy 7 Message-ID: <M7LFD0R438033.9405208333@anonymous.poster>   ; *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY*     -                          ====================   ,                             THE JF MEZEI FAQ  -                          ====================      1.  Who is JF Mezei?  G Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever hit J rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also one of the) longest running trolls in usenet history.   " 2.  How long has he been trolling?   For well over a decade.    3.  Where does he live?    Jean-Francois Mezei  86 Harwood Gate  Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3  (514) 695-8259  * 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll?  H His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades yourO newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, day in and day out, O every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He does not listen to pleas I to stop, he does not listen to anything anyone tells him, he does not pay O attention when the misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he just M goes right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his ears G closed while yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear anything you say!"    5.  What does he troll about?   P His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  He hates theK USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn it into a USA-bashing C fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just start making lewd posts.   $ 6.  What does he hate about the USA?  P Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have a visceralP hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a happier, better, moreJ successful version of their country and they can't stand it.  Some of JF'sN favorite troll bait is "the Bush regime", "the Bush-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz axis ofJ evil", "Americans are brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are stupid" etc.  # 7.  What about his sexual trolling?   P Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre.  Among hisI favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women's genitalia, sex toys, M circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of course) ... the list is endless.    8.  Circumcision???   P Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes to insertF circumcision into his trolling every now and then.  Apparently, JF wasP traumatized as a child because his parents, poor Hungarian immigrants to Canada,O left him uncircumcised when he was born, as is the custom in most of the world. N Growing up in Canada where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time,O he was psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he arranged D to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades of circumcisionN proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a free willy.  His mainO argument is how much better he was able to masturbate after getting circumcised M without that "pesky foreskin" getting in the way of his enjoyment, and he has > made it his mission in life to spread the circumcision gospel.  H 9.  What's his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of freaky.  N Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among the subjects dearO to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, especially little boy's J foreskins (and how tight they are) and little girls' hymens.  He is also aK tireless activist and advocate that children should be taught to masturbate H early on so that they don't grow up "sexually repressed like Americans".  L He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check their littleM boys' penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, proper movement, O and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.  Utopia for JF would be a > world full of parents manipulating their little boys' penises.  M 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the minute!  Are  you sure about all this stuff?  P Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There's over a decade full of Mezei trolling in there.   M 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn't he change aliases all the time like  all trolls do?  K Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known trolling  aliases.  G 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn't he work?   O Ha ha ha!  JF hasn't worked a day in his life!  He's an adult baby, a grown man O who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and trolls the newsgroups M all night.  In his free time when he isn't trolling he likes to ride his bike G down to Dorval Airport and race the planes down the runway in his bike.   9 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something?   M Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man's body.  Psychologically he never got past G the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor (i.e. "pull my H finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been able to outgrow.  L 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about them, is
 that true?  M Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in the locker room. N He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has seen in locker rooms overP the years, especially his unnatural obsession with foreskins.  He stalks the menO in locker rooms trying to measure how much foreskin they have, or how little is N left if they have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he spots a case of phimosis.   O 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an insane asylum!   M Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin foil hat N world where others are out to get him.  The key to understanding JF is that heL sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the world is out to get him, especially the) USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all about.   O What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian rail system was J "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut, spotting trains,N writing down their numbers and chasing them down at the train yard like a goodM freak.  Then he turned his attention to aviation.  Major events that made him P fall head first deep into the abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadian Airlines andO their subsequent takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  So paranoid is M he that when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada employees O went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to cover up the Air D Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up of the crash1 investigation.  He has never recovered from this.   6 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him!  O His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to some ancient, J arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has taken seriously forM decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and social dropouts who share J his psychological traumas, crying for the good old vax days of yore.  It's really pathetic!  ! 17.  Where else does he hang out?   I can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geeky computer G groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster he invaded the N sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, and trolled it relentlesslyP with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crap he's so famous for.  But they ranN him off that group and he had to go crawling back to comp.os.vms with his tail% between his legs, licking his wounds.   P 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and doesn't troll.  O Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it's impossible not to troll, so he slips P in troll bait every now and then, but by and large he respects comp.os.vms, and,L more importantly, he tries to hide his trolling activities from them so they* won't find out what a major netkook he is.  P 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind of psycho he is!  O Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And while you're at I it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fido too.  And to O alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.   4 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address?  H Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts to:   abuse@sympatico.ca abuse@bellglobal.com abuse@istop.com   P And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups, email it toP people, you may host it at your own website, send it to newspapers and magazinesI that do Internet articles or anything to do with Montreal or Canada, etc.      *** APPENDIX ***  P List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over the years.  This isK only a partial list, he has so many it's impossible to compile a full list.    jfmezei@istop.com  jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com  jfmezei@videotron.ca jfmezei@vl.videotron.ca  nospam.jfmezei@videotron.ca  "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam]   nobody <nobody@nobody.com> nobody <nobody@nobody.net> nobody <nobody@nobody.org> nobody <nobody@nobody.info>  nobody <nobody@nobody.int> nobody <nobody@nothing.nil>  nobody <nobody@null.dev> Sheep skin <sheep@station.au> # snowy squirrel <squirrel@nest.tree> ) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org> & Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>  Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> " Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>$ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com> ' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com> " Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org> ' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org> ( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org> ' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org> % Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>  Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org> ! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> # Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>   Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>  Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org> $ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org> ! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>   Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org> % Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org> $ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com> & Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> % Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org> & Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org> ' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org> ( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>e' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org> % Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> $ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>t( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>s" Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>i& Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>G) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>n' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> " Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org>r* Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org>n* Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>i Q <queue@continuum.net>v Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>S  ; *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY*L -- E3 Questo messaggio e' stato inoltrato automaticamente 7 da un paio di anonymous remailer. Il mittente originale 1 e' sconosciuto e non identificabile. Datevi pace."   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:33:47 +0000 (UTC)o( From: Michael Voight <mvoight@cisco.com> Subject: Horrible Tragedyb0 Message-ID: <c0rggb$i5l$1@fiasco.xenopsyche.net>   cancel   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 05:16:28 GMTr+ From: "Dan Notov" <danno@large.INVALID.com>eE Subject: Re: HP Launches Largest-ever Enterprise Advertising Campaignh. Message-ID: <MshYb.45028$yE5.194166@attbi_s54>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageF news:LDXXb.28552$iVf1.12018@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > Alex Daniels wrote:-9 > > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message ) > > news:<402F3D56.544A0065@istop.com>...  > >> Didier Morandi wrote:C > >>> More information on the "change +hp" campaign is available atp' > >>> www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/hpads.e > >>> [end of quote] > >>>  > >>> Anything on VMS ?a > >>F > >> No. But in fairness. the campaign is devoid of any information on > >> any product.  > >fD > > Have a look at the flash site for the campaign it is referencingH > > www.hp.com/adapt , seems to me there is explict mentions, for EVA's,H > > non-stop, linux, proliant, openview and integrity(without mentioningJ > > VMS). This is all mentioned within the ad campaigns flash, VMS is not. > >xF > >> The US post office figures fairly prominently. No mention of VMS.I > >> However, what this means is that HP is reasonably sure that the poste= > >> office will remain an HP customer for some time to come.e > > G > > Thought this was meant an ad in part to get new customers, not justsF > > retain USPS. USPS, Screen Actors Guild, Reuters and HP(as they useG > > themselves as a case study) are all mentioned (they are VMS sites),cH > > but no VMS mention within the flash or print that I can see. Only onF > > one obsucure link outside of the flash to USPS page, which in then > > links to VMS.  >  > : > Your observations would be characterized as belonging inI > alt.grassy.knoll.conspiracy, as some HP folks who frequent c.o.v. wouldi say. >iH > On the other hand, as that keen observer of the human condition, CaseyI > Stengle, would say about the absence of VMS yet again from HP's pitifulp; > advertising attempts, "It's like deja vu all over again".t It's Yogi, not Casey.l   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:00:53 +0000 (UTC)e# From: nobody@cryptorebels.net (edo)m Subject: Important Questions!e? Message-ID: <fa18a9386f3dfb23001da756a0beaf3d@cryptorebels.net>w  ; *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY*     -                          ====================t  ,                             THE JF MEZEI FAQ  -                          ====================      1.  Who is JF Mezei?  G Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever hiteJ rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also one of the) longest running trolls in usenet history.n  " 2.  How long has he been trolling?   For well over a decade.w   3.  Where does he live?p   Jean-Francois Mezei  86 Harwood Gated Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3  (514) 695-8259  * 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll?  H His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades yourO newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, day in and day out,rO every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He does not listen to pleasWI to stop, he does not listen to anything anyone tells him, he does not paysO attention when the misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he just M goes right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his ears?G closed while yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear anything you say!"e   5.  What does he troll about?n  P His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  He hates theK USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn it into a USA-bashing7C fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just start making lewd posts.7  $ 6.  What does he hate about the USA?  P Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have a visceralP hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a happier, better, moreJ successful version of their country and they can't stand it.  Some of JF'sN favorite troll bait is "the Bush regime", "the Bush-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz axis ofJ evil", "Americans are brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are stupid" etc.  # 7.  What about his sexual trolling?e  P Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre.  Among hisI favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women's genitalia, sex toys, M circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of course) ... the list is endless.7   8.  Circumcision???l  P Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes to insertF circumcision into his trolling every now and then.  Apparently, JF wasP traumatized as a child because his parents, poor Hungarian immigrants to Canada,O left him uncircumcised when he was born, as is the custom in most of the world. N Growing up in Canada where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time,O he was psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he arrangeduD to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades of circumcisionN proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a free willy.  His mainO argument is how much better he was able to masturbate after getting circumcised M without that "pesky foreskin" getting in the way of his enjoyment, and he has-> made it his mission in life to spread the circumcision gospel.  H 9.  What's his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of freaky.  N Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among the subjects dearO to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, especially little boy's J foreskins (and how tight they are) and little girls' hymens.  He is also aK tireless activist and advocate that children should be taught to masturbatenH early on so that they don't grow up "sexually repressed like Americans".  L He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check their littleM boys' penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, proper movement,-O and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.  Utopia for JF would be ae> world full of parents manipulating their little boys' penises.  M 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the minute!  Aren you sure about all this stuff?  P Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There's over a decade full of Mezei trolling in there.e  M 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn't he change aliases all the time like  all trolls do?  K Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known trollingo aliases.  G 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn't he work?i  O Ha ha ha!  JF hasn't worked a day in his life!  He's an adult baby, a grown maniO who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and trolls the newsgroupscM all night.  In his free time when he isn't trolling he likes to ride his bikefG down to Dorval Airport and race the planes down the runway in his bike.o  9 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something?   M Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man's body.  Psychologically he never got past)G the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor (i.e. "pull mybH finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been able to outgrow.  L 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about them, is
 that true?  M Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in the locker room.eN He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has seen in locker rooms overP the years, especially his unnatural obsession with foreskins.  He stalks the menO in locker rooms trying to measure how much foreskin they have, or how little isIN left if they have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he spots a case of phimosis.r  O 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an insane asylum!   M Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin foil hat!N world where others are out to get him.  The key to understanding JF is that heL sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the world is out to get him, especially the) USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all about.e  O What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian rail system wasmJ "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut, spotting trains,N writing down their numbers and chasing them down at the train yard like a goodM freak.  Then he turned his attention to aviation.  Major events that made himcP fall head first deep into the abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadian Airlines andO their subsequent takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  So paranoid is M he that when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada employeesDO went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to cover up the AirmD Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up of the crash1 investigation.  He has never recovered from this.j  6 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him!  O His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to some ancient,lJ arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has taken seriously forM decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and social dropouts who shareNJ his psychological traumas, crying for the good old vax days of yore.  It's really pathetic!  ! 17.  Where else does he hang out?a  I can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geeky computeriG groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster he invaded thepN sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, and trolled it relentlesslyP with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crap he's so famous for.  But they ranN him off that group and he had to go crawling back to comp.os.vms with his tail% between his legs, licking his wounds.f  P 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and doesn't troll.  O Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it's impossible not to troll, so he slips P in troll bait every now and then, but by and large he respects comp.os.vms, and,L more importantly, he tries to hide his trolling activities from them so they* won't find out what a major netkook he is.  P 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind of psycho he is!  O Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And while you're atwI it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fido too.  And to O alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.!  4 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address?  H Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts to:   abuse@sympatico.ca abuse@bellglobal.com abuse@istop.comk  P And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups, email it toP people, you may host it at your own website, send it to newspapers and magazinesI that do Internet articles or anything to do with Montreal or Canada, etc.      *** APPENDIX ***  P List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over the years.  This isK only a partial list, he has so many it's impossible to compile a full list.    jfmezei@istop.comi jfmezei.spamnot@istop.comh jfmezei@videotron.ca jfmezei@vl.videotron.cai nospam.jfmezei@videotron.cae "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam]   nobody <nobody@nobody.com> nobody <nobody@nobody.net> nobody <nobody@nobody.org> nobody <nobody@nobody.info>c nobody <nobody@nobody.int> nobody <nobody@nothing.nil>  nobody <nobody@null.dev> Sheep skin <sheep@station.au> # snowy squirrel <squirrel@nest.tree>n) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org> & Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>o Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org>-" Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>$ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>h' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com>i" Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>n' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org> ( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>r' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org>.% Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>  Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>e! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org>*# Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>   Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>m Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org> $ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>y! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>.  Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>e% Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>n$ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com> & Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org>e% Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org> & Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>e' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>y( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>B' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org>:% Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> $ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>1( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>S" Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org> & Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>d) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org> ' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>h" Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org>o* Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org>C* Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>a Q <queue@continuum.net>A Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>e  ; *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY*    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:38:42 +0000 (UTC) # From: nobody@cryptorebels.net (edo)- Subject: Important Questions!00 Message-ID: <c0rgph$i6f$1@fiasco.xenopsyche.net>   cancel   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 12:19:22 +0000.O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>dC Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!h0 Message-ID: <c0qcgb$aq7$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rick Jones wrote: R > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >>Rick Jones wrote:  >>A >>>But much slower - again, perhaps depending on the benchmark :)i >>6 >>About the same speed as a more expensive LV Itanium. >>:-)h >  > F > Well, if we have indeed now managed to get to discussing LV Itanium2' > performance versus UltraSPARC IIIi :)e > F > If you do a search of www.hp.com for "specweb99_ssl rx1600" you willC > find that HP have publicly announced 1278 SPECweb99_ssl on the 1UiG > rx1600 using the 1.0 GHz LV Itanium2 processor. This URL may take youe > there directly:l >   ? Where are the SPECint and SPECfp numbers for the LV Itanium 2 ?a  = I am not interested on SPECweb99_SSL, web serving is hardly aX: market for Itanium based systems, HPC FP based apps on the other hand might be a market.r  ; Incedentally can you actually get the rx1600 or even the LVo rx2600 ?   regards* Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:20:35 -0500t From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: LG06 Documentation-Q Message-ID: <OF9F60DF40.5D8B4085-ON85256E3C.007538CA-85256E3C.00753D08@metso.com>   7 norm.raphael@metso.com wrote on 02/16/2004 01:02:03 PM:   9 > Does anyone have a pointer to the LG06 printer manuals?6: > I need to mess with the number of lines per page and the# > printer is of course fighting me.3  * I have obtained the document from support.   > -NormM >  >F   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2004 18:59:56 -08000 From: keith.cayemberg@conti.de (Keith Cayemberg) Subject: Re: LG06 Documentationa= Message-ID: <3a65a5c8.0402161859.6f83d47e@posting.google.com>d   Hi Norm,  : Genicom has a line of LGxx-compatible (& LNxx) printers...( http://www.genicom.com/products/polg.htm  : They also have online documentation for them, but you will+ have to register with Genicom to access it.e' http://www.genicom.com/support/line.htmd) http://www.genicom.com/drivers/LG-doc.htmS  & There is also LG06 documentation at...= http://www.ourservers.net/public/dec_documentation/index.htmlo   Cheers!    Keith Cayemberga. IBM Business Services GmbH - Hannover, Germany    u norm.raphael@metso.com wrote in message news:<OF56ACAC25.C8603D9B-ON85256E3C.0062FD01-85256E3C.00630FC2@metso.com>...R9 > Does anyone have a pointer to the LG06 printer manuals?b: > I need to mess with the number of lines per page and the# > printer is of course fighting me.e > -Norm    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:40:09 -0600v/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>s( Subject: Re: Microvax vs Vaxstation 31003 Message-ID: <403154D9.C9410024@applied-synergy.com>    > "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote:  > G > But there were roughly 16 different variants of the RZ26 disk.  Most,oA > if not all, used different kinds of mounting hardware!  Would a 7 > VAXstation 4000 Model 90 fit in a 4000 Model 60 case?M    G In this particular case, yes.  The 4000-60 and 4000-90 actually use theo  same case and mounting hardware.  E Contrary to the comment below, the 4000-60 and 4000-90 do NOT use the:C same memory/video controllers.  From what I have been told, the -90FH removed some capabilities and this is why the LCSPX works in the -60 and not the -90.    b > Hans Vlems wrote:  > D > > "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> schreef in bericht. > > news:S5ydnR7qp4Y6rbHdRVn-vg@comcast.com... > >P > >sF > >> As I observed here, not long ago, DEC designed every machine fromF > >> scratch!  They never reused a case, power supply, memory board or2 > >> anything else if they could design a new one. > >>@ > >> So even if the outside looks similar it's likely to be very > >> different oniD > >> the inside.  As I recall, the resemblance between the Micro VAX
 > >> 3100 and=E > >> the VAXStation 3100 were only skin deep and not even that if youo > >> lookedi > >> at the rear panel.i > >> > >> > >>E > > It is not that bad ;-) The 8200/8250/8300/8350 and the VAXstatione
 > > 8000 weref2 > > very close relatives. The same applies for the! > > 8500/8530/8550/8700/8800 (therG > > ones with the PRO console). The VAXstation 4000 series are related,i > > then@ > > 60/90/90A/96 even use the same memory and video controllers.  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------t$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com a   Fax: 817-237-3074r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:45:46 -0600*/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>-( Subject: Re: Microvax vs Vaxstation 31003 Message-ID: <4031562A.59837B2C@applied-synergy.com>:   Lord Isildur wrote:s > I > the fabled alphabook, you mean? ive heard of them, even heard of peopleSL > owning them, but ive never seen one. it's a shame that more of them werentI > made, or that the line was continued a bit longer.. the 21164 gave much M > better performance per watt-hour than the '064 (which is what the alphabookeM > ran, afaik).. but i'd take an '064 laptop , too! otherwise, i think a VLC'soI > motherboard could be stuffed into a largeer, older laptop enclosure andiH > something done to make the keyboard and display be driven by somethingL > emulating a vt220.. perhaps if i ever get the other tenscore things higher) > up on the list of projects to finish...9    IIRC, the AlphaBook used a '066.  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------n$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com e   Fax: 817-237-3074y   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2004 13:21:06 -08001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)t( Subject: New England folks - LUG meeting= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0402161321.2b9d3be4@posting.google.com>a   Dear Folks,l  @ First my apologies since some of you will be receiving duplicate? reminders. To prevent this in the future please sign up for theo NELUG-L mailing list.i  : See: http://listserv.encompassus.org/archives/nelug-l.html  B This is a reminder that there will be an Encompass New England LUGF meeting on Wed Feb 18 4:30-6:30 PM at the HP office in Nashua, NH. The@ HP facility is at 110 Spit Brook Road. We will be meeting in the2 Edison conference room (ZK03-2) employee entrance.  $ Visitors should park in the ZK03 lot  D Directions - going West on Spit Brook road you will see the SheratonF hotel (very large Tudor design hotel on the right).  Take the right asD if you were going to the hotel, you will see the HP sign (road forksC hotel on right, road for HP on the left) for the ZK03 building takee! the first left after the HP sign.t   A Guest speaker for the LUG meeting will be Tom Cox from HP Storagel( division for the following presentation.  E Current SAN/NAS products, where each would fit in a environment. ThenlD cover Open View Storage Area Manager with a demo. He will also speak7 about some of the tools available for the SAN switches.J   Refreshments will be served.  5 Just send me mail if you are interested in attending.i  
 Warm Regards,e
 Paul Covielloe	 LUG Chairt  
 Sue Skonetskia HP Counterpart   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2004 13:26:35 -08001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)m Subject: Re: OpenVMS Feelingsi= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0402161326.7ce87bb6@posting.google.com>m   Folks,  B We are working every day to try and get VMS mentioned where we canE within HP and fix web sites when we find them.  However when articlesiA are writted by the press we (VMS group) can not affect that.  Itsi? funny sort of like "of course you think your baby is beautiful"b. attitude.  Thats where the newsgroup can help.  A Dave, yes I know its HP managment we are talking about and we arei@ doing our best to educate them.  But lets face it they listen to customers more carefully.s  F I think this is one of the things I love the most about VMS people, we are not quiters!   Sueo    n "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<fd4Xb.467$s6M.84@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>... > Sue Skonetski wrote:G > > Forgive the spelling mistakes, but since we are family I figure youa > > will understand. > > H > > Since I can not officially recommend anything, I am doing this on my, > > own time. How about these for some ideas >  > <snip> > >cC > > When VMS is not mentioned in articles, write a note asking why.t > B > I agree with you on many points Sue, but here's where we differ. > H > The lack of mentions of VMS in articles in the trade press is a DIRECTL > result of HP not doing its job of advertising and raising awareness of VMSG > to the potential consumers of VMS. Do you really think that the 25-30 J > year-old junior staffers who write these articles that don't mention VMSM > even know what VMS is? Of course not - the product has no 'mind share' with L > the press because HP doesn't advertise it in their publications, and these# > kids never used it in university.s   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2004 15:14:52 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) Subject: Re: OpenVMS Feelingsf= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0402161514.4c81bbc4@posting.google.com>i  j Joel Loveless <joell@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<q3l130doev24q8bu8rdosg73kko3ckcbg5@4ax.com>...B > My compnay is moving to a Linux based system to replace VMS. TheG > company started the buisness 20 years ago running on VAX/VMS systems. G > Yes, I am feeling abandoned. After 15 years of working with VMS, I amoG > unsure where my career will go. Anybody need a good VMS Systems Adminh > in the Atlanta area?    A I suggest creatin a site like www.openvms-retired.org or similar.gE I am just counting the days to shut off my servers when the MM moduleb of SAP R/3 run.t   Or learn chinese ....     	 Fabio  C.      > joell@mindspring.com > @ > On 10 Feb 2004 16:05:21 -0800, fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio > Cardoso) wrote:o >  > >Hi People > >p; > >How do you feel in your companies working with OpenVMS ?e > > @ > >Abandoned, alone, no integrated, nobody cares about your job,@ > >no body listens you, your are forgotten in the meetings, yourC > >system works but its not important for the IT staff -  just fort3 > >the end-users, feeling at the end-of-career, ...  > >m$ > >Just to know if I am not alone !  > >v
 > >Regards > >i > >FC/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:44:08 -0500n* From: Joel Loveless <joell@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Feelingst8 Message-ID: <q3l130doev24q8bu8rdosg73kko3ckcbg5@4ax.com>  @ My compnay is moving to a Linux based system to replace VMS. TheE company started the buisness 20 years ago running on VAX/VMS systems.tE Yes, I am feeling abandoned. After 15 years of working with VMS, I am E unsure where my career will go. Anybody need a good VMS Systems Adminn in the Atlanta area?   joell@mindspring.com  > On 10 Feb 2004 16:05:21 -0800, fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) wrote:i  
 >Hi People >o9 >How do you feel in your companies working with OpenVMS ?  >t> >Abandoned, alone, no integrated, nobody cares about your job,> >no body listens you, your are forgotten in the meetings, yourA >system works but its not important for the IT staff -  just foro1 >the end-users, feeling at the end-of-career, ...h >n" >Just to know if I am not alone !  >e >Regards >  >FCo   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:44:09 -0500g* From: Joel Loveless <joell@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Feelingsa8 Message-ID: <pjl130dpts1k3488j89ujl2ki57k4ncbd1@4ax.com>  @ Yes, I am feeling abandoned. My company is moving VMS to a LinuxD solution. I don't know if they are going to keep us on or let us go?E Anyone need a good VMS Systems Admin with 15 years experience? In thee
 Atlanta area.r   joell@mindspring.com    > On 10 Feb 2004 16:05:21 -0800, fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) wrote:h  
 >Hi People >u9 >How do you feel in your companies working with OpenVMS ?e >y> >Abandoned, alone, no integrated, nobody cares about your job,> >no body listens you, your are forgotten in the meetings, yourA >system works but its not important for the IT staff -  just foro1 >the end-users, feeling at the end-of-career, ...l >r" >Just to know if I am not alone !  >r >Regards >o >FCe   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:27:45 +0000vO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>yI Subject: Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus studyt0 Message-ID: <c0q2eh$7e3$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <c0i9ip$mmv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  > > >>OpenVMS doesn't scale to more than 16 CPU's reliably, so the< >>likelyhood of the TechFoolish study finding enough OpenVMS9 >>customers using fully configured GS320/GS1280's runninge >>OpenVMS is vanishingly low.s >  > J >    Sigh.  VMS was working fine on 24 CPUs years ago.  I know, I used it," >    managaed it, and measured it. > > >    What's not so clear is how well the SMP provisions scale. > D >    This is VMS.  SMP is not the only way to run multiple CPUs in a> >    single system.  We have real clusters, not just NFS toys. >   @ Ohh come on Bob if you really think that UNIX clustering is just@ an NFS toy then you have earned a place in the Bob C category of poster to this newsgroup.s   regardso Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:29:09 +0000oO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> T Subject: Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... ......0 Message-ID: <c0q2h5$7e3$4@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote:y > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c0dh2b$286$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  >>Wayne Sewell wrote:c >>B >>>>>IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T READ IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!& >>>>>IT PROMOTES THE MERITS OF VMS ... >>>a >>>o >>>gJ >>>I'm all for that.  It's the sneering at solaris that's the problem.  IfP >>>andy-boy was not infesting this newgroup, that would not be an issue.  But heQ >>>is, so slams at sun just cause another round of useless traffic where the samem& >>>bullshit is repeated over and over. >>>a >>>e >>8 >>Except that sadly it isn't BS at least not on my part. >  >  > It often is. >     Provide examples or retract that   regardsi Andrew Harrisona > 	 >>Regardst >>Andrew Harrisont   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:25:24 +0000aO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>oY Subject: Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... again! ... o0 Message-ID: <c0q2a5$7e3$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote:i > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c0i9ip$mmv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...s >  >>Keith Parris wrote:r >> >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c0abfl$qpj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>>o >>>i> >>>>The TechFoolish report you refer to was released some time: >>>>ago, its is complete tosh, it has been comprehensively; >>>>trashed at least twice but still you see fit to drag ita  >>>>up again for another airing. >>>r >>>rG >>>I guess you must not have actually looked at the document.  If you'du: >>>even read the cover page, you'd have seen the new date. >>>rB >>>It's a new version, based on fresh interviews.  Methodology hasF >>>changed a bit, as well.  Downtime due to viruses and worms has been >>>added for this round, also. >>>T >>D >>Its based on the same methodology, warming over BS doesn't make it >>any more credible does it. >> >>B >>You then get to the next obvious issue which is that the bulk of? >>the study (if it was that) could only be for GS320's you needl> >>to have at least 1 years experience of the system before youB >>could reliably answer TCO study questions on it and the GS320 is: >>3-4x slower than the F15K and 2-3x slower than the P690. >  > H > Are you saying that you think GS1280's are less reliable that GS320's? >   ? You appear to be having a comprehension problem. The GS1280 has A more thoughput than a GS320 so the cost of downtime of the GS1280@@ will be higher than the cost of downtime of a GS320 assuming the same downtime rate !  E > One of the points in this study is also that the OpenVMS OS is morecF > reliable than other systems. This is not a new thing for most people	 > though.    Does the study show that ?  ; Given the obvious flaws the study can you be sure that even1 that conclusion is a safe one ?.   Regards. Andrew Harrison.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:21:37 +0000bO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>@Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... again! ... o0 Message-ID: <c0q232$7d5$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote:a > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c0i9ip$mmv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...4 >  >>Keith Parris wrote:m >> >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c0abfl$qpj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>>- >>>-> >>>>The TechFoolish report you refer to was released some time: >>>>ago, its is complete tosh, it has been comprehensively; >>>>trashed at least twice but still you see fit to drag it8  >>>>up again for another airing. >>>< >>>yG >>>I guess you must not have actually looked at the document.  If you'ds: >>>even read the cover page, you'd have seen the new date. >>>fB >>>It's a new version, based on fresh interviews.  Methodology hasF >>>changed a bit, as well.  Downtime due to viruses and worms has been >>>added for this round, also. >>>b >>D >>Its based on the same methodology, warming over BS doesn't make it >>any more credible does it. >>- >>You need to face a few uncomfortable facts.e >>7 >>OpenVMS doesn't scale to more than 16 CPU's reliably,e >  > $ > Do you have any evidence of that ? > It is not my experience.I > And recent things such as GS1280 with 7.3-1 and 7.3-2 scales very good.  >  > < >>likelyhood of the TechFoolish study finding enough OpenVMS9 >>customers using fully configured GS320/GS1280's running  >>OpenVMS is vanishingly low.f >  > I > I have customers who run GS320 fully configured. Not that hard to find.s >   @ Good for you if true but the GS320 is 3-4x slower than a F15K so9 comparing its TCO with a F15K as the original TechFoolishw report did is a BS exercise.  @ Do you have any customers with 32 way GS1280's running OpenVMS ?   > > >>So any TCO comparisions of fully configured GS320's and evenB >>GS1280's vs fully configured F15K/p690 ignores that very obvious@ >>fact that in reality the fully configured GS's running OpenVMS >>don't exist. >  > 9 > You clearly don't know what you are talking about here.s  > Such configurations do exists.  ; As I said the only likely configs are GS320's you confirmed : this but you cannot compare the TCO of a GS320 with a F15K7 or and IBM P690, they are both much larger systems withn much greater throughput.   RegardsM Andrew HarrisonH   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:28:41 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>4Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... again! ... e0 Message-ID: <c0q2g9$7e3$3@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:S > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c0i9ip$mmv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  >>Keith Parris wrote:  >> >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c0abfl$qpj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>>v >>>r> >>>>The TechFoolish report you refer to was released some time: >>>>ago, its is complete tosh, it has been comprehensively; >>>>trashed at least twice but still you see fit to drag ito  >>>>up again for another airing. >>>6 >>>oG >>>I guess you must not have actually looked at the document.  If you'ds: >>>even read the cover page, you'd have seen the new date. >>>rB >>>It's a new version, based on fresh interviews.  Methodology hasF >>>changed a bit, as well.  Downtime due to viruses and worms has been >>>added for this round, also. >>>o >>D >>Its based on the same methodology, warming over BS doesn't make it >>any more credible does it. >>- >>You need to face a few uncomfortable facts.s >>> >>OpenVMS doesn't scale to more than 16 CPU's reliably, so the< >>likelyhood of the TechFoolish study finding enough OpenVMS9 >>customers using fully configured GS320/GS1280's runninge >>OpenVMS is vanishingly low.i >>	 >>Regards  >>Andrew Harrisont >  > A > it doesn't?  Here is a 32 cpu gs1280 setting a world record ...h > C > http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=04/01/09/3349335l  . Do you have a clue what you have just posted ?   regardsu Andrew Harrisonr   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 01:16:55 -0000l4 From: "Chris Casey" <chris.caseyNOSPAM@ntlworld.com># Subject: Re: PSION, another Digitalf@ Message-ID: <dSUXb.6615$cb7.50969@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net>  7 "Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in messagee* news:402A01C2.1788E9AF@sture.homeip.net... > Chris Casey wrote: > >l; > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messageh' > > news:4028B64C.F68F3D53@istop.com...t	 > > Jeff,i > >l >g9 > Err, it's not Jeff. IIRC JF is short for Jean Francois.e   OOops sorry Jean   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:45:11 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>> Subject: Re: puzzle involving ALLOCLASS and SET VOLUME/REBUILD6 Message-ID: <403020A7.6B273057@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:a > B > In article <402C422E.FEECADDA@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J.: > Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes: > K > > Well, simply, if ALLOCLASS or Port Allocation Class is 0, the prefix is @ > > "nodename$". If non-zero, the device name prefix is "$nnn$". > . > Right, but the allocation class IS non-zero.  @ WHICH alloclass is non-zero? The ALLOCLASS parameter or the port/ allocation class for the device(s) in question?e   -- . David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/w   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2004 11:38:53 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski): Subject: Re: Shipping Alpha computers overseas - OK to do?< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0402161138.b432266@posting.google.com>  m stevekulpa@yahoo.com (steve kulpa) wrote in message news:<ee336853.0402160745.73a7a7e5@posting.google.com>...  > Greetings,D > I recently became the owner of a real nice AlphaServer 800 which IF > thought I'd enjoy at home.  After a couple of months, reality set in> > and I find I have no spare time to do anything w/ it, so I'm  > considering trying to sell it. > G > My questions is this (after watching a disturbing Law & Order episodeeC > last night):  Is there any problems shipping this thing overseas,o> > should someone ina country other than the USA be interested? >  > Thanks in advance, > Stevel    9 you have to check with the dept. of commerce ... it is okn6 to ship alphas because we have done it, but not to any; foreign country on the designated black list ... you shouldy3 confirm the country with the federal government ...n   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2004 01:26:51 GMT$ From: matt@grogged.dyndns.org (matt): Subject: Re: Shipping Alpha computers overseas - OK to do?. Message-ID: <c0rqkr$2f7f$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu>  I Shipping things overseas is easy, you don't have to worry about imaginaryJF blacklists.  Any Fedex, UPS, or USPS service counter can help you shipL things which aren't too big.  The UPS/Fedex weight limit on express packagesL is 150lbs. I believe.  The only differences between sending items within theI US/Canada and anywhere else in the world are 1.  Service rates are higheroH (most likely no one in their right mind would pay to have something thatK heavy shipped that far), and 2.  you have to fill out a customs declarationgK (UPS/Fedex/USPS have the forms available) indicating your name and address, B the recipient's name and address, package contents, final country J destination, and declared value.  I've never had any problems with customsI holding up merchandise, and I've sent computers/related garbage all over tJ Europe/Asia/South America/etc...  Mostly the extra form is there to ensureK the recipient gets screwed over with various custom's duties (make sure thesL paperwork indicates the recipient should be billed for any duties imposed by the country of destination).     -m      0 In article <1032c79231tmd4f@news.supernews.com>,> 	"Island Computers USA" <dbturner@islandco.com.nospam> writes: > Easy rule of thumb > N > If the country is either in the arabian peninsula OR anywhere in Africa then > don't ship to themL > Even if it's not balcklisted there are SO many crooked companies that will) > forward equipment on to the bad guys...F >  >  > DT >  > 7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagel8 > news:d7791aa1.0402161138.b432266@posting.google.com...6 >> stevekulpa@yahoo.com (steve kulpa) wrote in message; > news:<ee336853.0402160745.73a7a7e5@posting.google.com>...n >> > Greetings,eG >> > I recently became the owner of a real nice AlphaServer 800 which IuI >> > thought I'd enjoy at home.  After a couple of months, reality set insA >> > and I find I have no spare time to do anything w/ it, so I'm # >> > considering trying to sell it.d >> >J >> > My questions is this (after watching a disturbing Law & Order episodeF >> > last night):  Is there any problems shipping this thing overseas,A >> > should someone ina country other than the USA be interested?. >> > >> > Thanks in advance,c
 >> > Steve >> >>< >> you have to check with the dept. of commerce ... it is ok9 >> to ship alphas because we have done it, but not to anyn> >> foreign country on the designated black list ... you should6 >> confirm the country with the federal government ... >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:47:08 +0000oO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>d= Subject: Re: Solved: "Known problems with V7.3 security MUP?" 0 Message-ID: <c0q3is$7qn$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:c > In article <cbop20l8qfsetdmj3h7nqorr662b1c0hgr@4ax.com>, jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes:  > G >>On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:55:30 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancye0 >><Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >> >> >>>jlsue wrote:i >>J >>>>Except that most of the OpenVMS Security folks in here have never madeI >>>>claims like what you're trying to debunk.  There have been one or twotC >>>>people, but the rest have been much more reasonable about it.  e >>>> >>>e< >>>Well  Bob, Bob, Keith, Mark and yourself adds up to 5 not# >>>1 or 2 but lets not split hairs.h >> > K >    I don't make the kind of security claims that he tries to debunk.  He iF >    just doens't like it when I debunk his.  Wants to throw us all inF >    with the fellows claiming CERTs are a measure of security.  Can'tB >    deal with the simple fact that we have better data than CERT. >   D But you havn't debunked any of mine have you mainly because you haveD been unable to share the secret squirrel sources of information that0 could support your claims making them worthless.   Remember the pantomime !     regardsr Andrew Harrisons   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2004 15:19:50 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)( Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Consultant Needed..= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0402161519.47fed7e7@posting.google.com>a  j Cmbelz@comcast.net (Cindy Belz) wrote in message news:<1bc8d6ca.0402160742.5dcc5f19@posting.google.com>...H > I have a urgent need in the Richmond, VA area. This will be a contractE > for about 2 weeks. Candidates must be available to start on Monday.a > - > Rate is 40.00-62.00 per hour corp to corp. m > 8 > Please send resumes ASAP to Cindy@AtlanticResource.com > H > Client is looking for a consultant that can troubleshoot and resolve aF > problem with the Oracle Gateway. Client has a VAX computer that usedC > to be able to connect to the Oracle Database (running on Alpha NTnE > platform) to send data to the database. Since a recent reboot, this A > has not worked properly. Candidates should have a strong Oraclei> > Gateway/VAX/VMS background and be able to start this week.  A > Candidates must have Oracle Gateway experience.  No exceptions.a > + > View all my jobs at www.richmondjobs.org.y    J If I had a great amount of money I would like to buy a few GS1280 or ES-47J and HP Blades (to Run Charon-VAX) to become an ASP to run legacy VAX/ALpha> applications. Why these VARs like Island dont think about it ?. In Brazil I know a Sun reseller which do that.   Regardse   FC   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2004 12:05:04 -0800/ From: ctoriger@yahoo.co.uk (Christopher Origer)e9 Subject: VMS 7.2-2 IDE Boot on AXP164SX (EB164 Variation) = Message-ID: <51636fc9.0402161205.61af6bfb@posting.google.com>o  D Hi, I am trying to install OpenVMS on an AlphaPC 164SX.  I only have? IDE.  From all that I have read IDE with the Cypress chipset is.A _supposed_ to work.  The boot proceeds to a point where I see then8 OpenVMS 7.2-2 text and then it errors out with a messageA CFG_DEV_NOT_FOUND ....  ID=00000000.C6931080 ignoring device ....I@ (message abbreviated).  The IDE chipset is Cypress CY82C693.  MyF device names are DQXX.  I was almost going to try and edit an image ofF the installation CD to change the CONFIG_DAT device ID for the CypressC controller I do see in there just to see how far I get.  I have not > done this yet.  Is this some other Cypress variant?  The id isE 0x4D454449 and then I see another 0x53454449 (perhaps one for primaryr and secondary?).  Any pointers?    Cheers,a   Christopherr   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:21:45 +0100e' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>k Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-22 Message-ID: <40307D99.5080308@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>   Lee Mah wrote:E > Has anyone implemented VMS 7.3-2 into a production environment yet?i* > If so, what issues have you encountered? > C Upgrading from 7.3-1 fails when the patch DCE_030_SSRT3608 V1.0 is g> installed. I'm waiting for a patch from HP to fix the problem.                   Jouk   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Feb 2004 09:11:10 GMT7 From: yehavi@vms.huji.ac.il (Yehavi Bourvine (58-4279))@' Subject: Where to get SWXCRMGR for VMS?b% Message-ID: <2004Feb16.091110@hujicc>m   Hello,  N   I've installed a fresh VMS on a system which has the KZPAC RAID array. ThereD is a software called SWXCRMGR to be installed on VMS to monitor thisH controller. In the past it was on Compaq's WEB site or on the VMS disks;O however, I cannot find it anymore, neither on HP's site nor on the 7.3-1 disks.r Any idea where I can get it?  E Note that I am looking for the VMS software, not the ARC (stand-alone H configuration) companion of it (which is available in the firmware CDs).  <                                            Thanks! __Yehavi:   Yehavi Bourvine.# The Hebrew University of Jerusalem.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:05:28 -0500n3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> % Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?o0 Message-ID: <sJKdneLI_bynlK3dRVn-vA@comcast.com>   Right on,  Antonio!<  F I first met the issue of boundary alignment ca. 1970 with the IBM 360 F Model 91.  It is just part of the way processors work.  The designers H can make varying amounts of effort to "fix up" misaligned variables and G can charge greater or lesser penalties for them.  I would imagine that  H there are substantial costs involved both in engineering and in silicon * to get maximum fixup with minimum penalty.  D Why should the rest of us pay extra so that incompetent programmers E don't have to think about alignment?  Especially since the compilers $D will do most of the work unless you insist on a structure of {byte, D word, longword, quadword} with no filler.  There is no way that the F compiler can align that!  For those not following this, the structure D aligns beautifully if you make it {quadword, longword, word, byte}; G start it on a quadword boundary and everything falls neatly into place.i   Antonio Carlini wrote:   >a > I >> Note that the Power PC has only a one tick penalty for unaligned data c	 >> accessxH >> (which the Alpha engineers arrogantly refer to as misaligned access!) >t >1H > Misaligned is misaligned. Most VAX processors also have penalties for D > misaligned accesses. The compilers hide these, where possible and G > allowed, by padding structures. MACRO-32 programmers are expected to vA > be able to count! Plenty of other processors do the same thing.p >n	 > Antonio  >d > -- b >  > ---------------t/ > Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgL >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:39:23 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>t% Subject: RE: Why was VAX abandonned ?:9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIKEFJCNAA.tom@kednos.com>O     -----Original Message-----:   From: Richard B. Gilbert [mailto:rgilbert88@comcast.net])   Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 4:05 PMi   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma'   Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?        Right on,  Antonio!r  G   I first met the issue of boundary alignment ca. 1970 with the IBM 360rG   Model 91.  It is just part of the way processors work.  The designers2I   can make varying amounts of effort to "fix up" misaligned variables andcH   can charge greater or lesser penalties for them.  I would imagine thatI   there are substantial costs involved both in engineering and in siliconx,   to get maximum fixup with minimum penalty.  E   Why should the rest of us pay extra so that incompetent programmers F   don't have to think about alignment?  Especially since the compilersE   will do most of the work unless you insist on a structure of {byte,aE   word, longword, quadword} with no filler.  There is no way that themG   compiler can align that!  For those not following this, the structureeE   aligns beautifully if you make it {quadword, longword, word, byte}; I   start it on a quadword boundary and everything falls neatly into place..  @ Yes, but you don't have the freedom to align data except for new
 applications.tJ I would venture to say that the bulk of FORTRAN employs COMMON that is notK aligned.  So what does the bright cpu engineer do to overcome the alignment0 penalty,J he increases the memory bandwidth and inserts a barrel shifter.  What does thetC engineer without proper oversight do, he ignores the problem as notR
 important.  I In PL/I you can give a structure the aligned attribute, but in FORTAN you6 can't;< moreover a lot of I/O to structures presumes data is packed.  ; Last I looked, the VAX was a byte addressable architecture.      Antonio Carlini wrote:     >,   > J   >> Note that the Power PC has only a one tick penalty for unaligned data   >> accesstJ   >> (which the Alpha engineers arrogantly refer to as misaligned access!)   >o   >lI   > Misaligned is misaligned. Most VAX processors also have penalties forhE   > misaligned accesses. The compilers hide these, where possible andeH   > allowed, by padding structures. MACRO-32 programmers are expected toC   > be able to count! Plenty of other processors do the same thing.s   >>   > Antoniod   >,   > --   >,   > ---------------a1   > Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org,   >r     ---m(   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B   Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004   ---s& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:32:22 +0000/O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>i% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?00 Message-ID: <c0qk9m$dpp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Tom Linden wrote:r >   H > No, you are mistaken, they were wrong.  Why would you design a new cpuG > that could only run new code.  So you could go after a small a market-I > as possible?  Actually, it was the miserable performance of Oracle that I > was responsible for the addition of 16bit and byte sign extended moves.- >   9 Wern't there also issues with Cobol performance as well ?r   Regardsc Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 06:56:46 GMT4% From: Roger Ivie <rivie@ridgenet.net> % Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?d3 Message-ID: <slrnc33epc.bfk.rivie@Stench.no.domain>f  J In article <uLednbnOh_U3GqzdRVn-jw@comcast.com>, Richard B. Gilbert wrote:J > Yes, the VAX is byte addressable.  So, I believe, is the Alpha.  If you I > address your data as bytes there is no alignment problem!  If you want h > larger units, align them.   B Addressability is only part of the problem on Alpha. As originallyH designed, it didn't include byte/word fetches and stores, so even if youI had a properly aligned (say) word, you had to fetch at least a longword, lD move it into position, and extract the data. Similarly, storing thatE aligned word involves fetching the longword in which it's going to bedD placed, masking out the word you're going to modify, and merging the word into the longword.e  D Of course, the hardware has to do this *anyway*, so it's primarily aF question of whether it's hidden behind byte/word fetches and stores orA made explicit using ZAPNOT and friends. I'm not certain about thekF implementation details of the byte/word store instructions, so I don'tD know whether the mask&merge stuff is done by the processor or in theG memory system (byte updates would be pretty annoying for memory coveredi by ECC).  G An implicit assumption in all this is that stuff works like memory. ThenG violation of this assumption by I/O devices gave us sparse space. Since E I deal with I/O devices and device drivers, I was pretty annoyed fromtF the start. Doesn't mean I think the Alpha guys were wrong, just that I have an axe to grind.B -- R
 Roger Ivie rivie@ridgenet.net- (Rated a 10 on the Fox Scale of Forth-Hatred)c   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 00:06:48 GMTS" From: GreyCloud <mist@Cumulus.com>/ Subject: Re: Windows has become open source :-) 7 Message-ID: <sWcYb.833$ss.22795@bcandid.telisphere.com>l   Tillman, Brian (AGRE) wrote:   > JF Mezei wrote:t >  > ? >>Perhaps this was done on purpose when Gates realised that hist< >>own staff were totally ineffective at making Widnows save,> >>robust and secure, so Gates unleashed the code on the net toC >>see how quickly all the faults can be found (and then fixed) ....n >  > 0 > How could any fevered brain come up with this?  E Hard to say.  But Ballmer was heavily sweating during one of his pep h rallies... could be him.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:14:26 -0000m* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: XDM problemst, Message-ID: <c0r4qi$17hm@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  @ "Michael Grunditz" <michael.grunditz@telia.com> wrote in message+ news:9125cb814c.michael@privat.utfors.se...s  E > After a reinstall of OpenVMS on my VS4000-90 , XDM stopped to work.e? > It is running and enabled, but I cant connect anything to it.   D The default configuration file doesn't allow any connections. If you8 haven't got a backup copy of it, you'll need to edit it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:21:39 +0100 : From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> Subject: Re: XDM problemsa* Message-ID: <c0sbt4$8sa25@doiweb4.b2x.vwg>   Michael Grunditz wrote:   - > In message <c0r4qi$17hm@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>s7 >           "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> wrote:u >  > B >>"Michael Grunditz" <michael.grunditz@telia.com> wrote in message- >>news:9125cb814c.michael@privat.utfors.se...1 >> >>F >>>After a reinstall of OpenVMS on my VS4000-90 , XDM stopped to work.@ >>>It is running and enabled, but I cant connect anything to it. >>F >>The default configuration file doesn't allow any connections. If you: >>haven't got a backup copy of it, you'll need to edit it. >> >> > + > Aha and where is the configuration file ?c > 
 > /Michael  R Normally in directory SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$XDM], where user TCPIP$XDM has its home. --    + mit freundlichen Gren | with best regardse  3 Karl Rohwedder          | it-ingteam(at)t-online.dejA                          | extern.karl.rohwedder(at)volkswagen.dec   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2004 11:14:35 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso): Subject: Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0402161114.4c76aec8@posting.google.com>a   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c0q2u7$7ln$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...5 > Lord Isildur wrote:i	 > > yuck!oN > > just give the users quotas on a tmp volume or something! mucking with (andN > > expecting lots of programs (and users!) to abide by) environment variablesP > > when there is no way to know it will even cause your desired behavior is not > > the way to approach this.yM > > nevermind that solaris' bright idea of putting swap on the same partitionnP > > as whatever is mounted in /tmp is one of the most retarted of many extremelyP > > stupid things theyve done over the years, still, a saner solution is to just > > use quotas..P > > as an aside, on the solaris systems ive used, if more swap space was needed,P > > files in /tmp would just start disappearing, a full /tmp would not cause the- > > system to run out of swap space or crash.  > >  > F > As I said earlier it generally doesn't cause the system to crash and9 > as you say using quotas would stop users filling it up.p > H > Having /tmp in swap/memory can be a big performance win for some apps.  ; DAMN ! I Cant stop a process in RWAST state in OpenVMS ...  B mainly those process which lock databases or devices like tapes !    FC    	 > Regardsi > Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2004 15:22:08 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso): Subject: Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0402161522.322f75bb@posting.google.com>l   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c0q2u7$7ln$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...g > Lord Isildur wrote:m	 > > yuck! N > > just give the users quotas on a tmp volume or something! mucking with (andN > > expecting lots of programs (and users!) to abide by) environment variablesP > > when there is no way to know it will even cause your desired behavior is not > > the way to approach this. M > > nevermind that solaris' bright idea of putting swap on the same partitioniP > > as whatever is mounted in /tmp is one of the most retarted of many extremelyP > > stupid things theyve done over the years, still, a saner solution is to just > > use quotas..P > > as an aside, on the solaris systems ive used, if more swap space was needed,P > > files in /tmp would just start disappearing, a full /tmp would not cause the- > > system to run out of swap space or crash.o > >  > F > As I said earlier it generally doesn't cause the system to crash and9 > as you say using quotas would stop users filling it up.S    % I think my last message didnt go ... 9  C I dont know why I cant stop a process in RWAST state. Those relatedm/ to database connections and devices like tapes.h   Regardsg   FC p       > H > Having /tmp in swap/memory can be a big performance win for some apps. > 	 > Regardst > Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:38:03 +0000FO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>i: Subject: Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full0 Message-ID: <c0q31s$7ln$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <c0isit$b$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  >># swap -l  >>No swap devices configured >> >  > E >    Right.  And when your system pages it probably just goes to that0$ >    extra memory you weren't using. >     	 So what ?A  < As I said earlier your point was incorrect and that is still the case isn't it.   Regardse Andrew Harrisont   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:36:06 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>y: Subject: Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full0 Message-ID: <c0q2u7$7ln$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Lord Isildur wrote:d > yuck!eL > just give the users quotas on a tmp volume or something! mucking with (andL > expecting lots of programs (and users!) to abide by) environment variablesN > when there is no way to know it will even cause your desired behavior is not > the way to approach this.'K > nevermind that solaris' bright idea of putting swap on the same partitionSN > as whatever is mounted in /tmp is one of the most retarted of many extremelyN > stupid things theyve done over the years, still, a saner solution is to just > use quotas..N > as an aside, on the solaris systems ive used, if more swap space was needed,N > files in /tmp would just start disappearing, a full /tmp would not cause the+ > system to run out of swap space or crash.0 >   D As I said earlier it generally doesn't cause the system to crash and7 as you say using quotas would stop users filling it up.i  F Having /tmp in swap/memory can be a big performance win for some apps.   Regards> Andrew Harrisonn   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.094 ************************e in message news:<c0dh2b$286$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  >>Wayne Sewell wrote:c >>B >>>>>IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T READ IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!& >>>>>IT PROMOTES THE MERITS OF VMS ... >>>a @]*    A]*    B]*    C]*    D]*    E]*    F]*    G]*    H]*    I]*    J]*    K]*    L]*    M]*    N]*    O]*    P]*    Q]*    R]*    S]*    T]*    U]*    V]*    W]*    X]*    Y]*    Z]*    []*    \]*    ]]*    ^]*    _]*    `]*    a]*    b]*    c]*    d]*    e]*    f]*    g]*    h]*    i]*    j]*    k]*    l]*    m]*    n]*    o]*    p]*    q]*    r]*    s]*    t]*    u]*    v]*    w]*    x]*    y]*    z]*    {]*    |]*    }]*    ~]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    ]*    