1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 20 Feb 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 100       Contents: Re: 2nd hand Alphas in UK?J Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I  prevent this?J Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I  prevent this?! Re: Change resolution on ZLXp-L2?  Changing IP address  DECnet-plus "SET HOST" problem Re: DESTA Director RWASTs  Re: disk drive partition?  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon : Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!= Re: JFK Airtrain: Good News, Bad News, Good News and Bad News P Re: Marketeering and Software Engineering (was: Re: Solved: "Known problems with- Re: Mozilla for OpenVMS Alpha V1.5 available! P Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... again! ... P RDB database becomes disabled by remote user failures because of security regula$ Re: Restricting access to directory. Re: SAN or NAS ?P Re: TCPIP V5.4: DECnet/IP: remote nodes cannot translate address -> name -> name. Re: VMS Fortran RTL restriction on file names?" Re: Welcome Package for IV NEWBIES" Re: Welcome Package for IV NEWBIES Re: Who Killed Jesus? J F did! Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ? Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?3 will these third-party CD-ROM drives work with VMS? 7 Re: will these third-party CD-ROM drives work with VMS? " [CSWS] Installation Dependancies ?1 Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full 5 Re: [TCPIP V5.4] Session Disconnects (and DISCONNECT)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:14:48 +0000 ; From: Gerald Marsh <gerald-@-cyfer-remove_this.demon.co.uk> # Subject: Re: 2nd hand Alphas in UK? 8 Message-ID: <vr5a30t1t04ok2ad5ucpnfu8j1ehetoudd@4ax.com>  F On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:06:06 GMT, oahlefel..at..metz.une.edu.au wrote:  ; >Does anyone know the contact details for suppliers of used ; >Alphas in the UK? I know that people like Island Computers = >will happily ship to Britain, but we have a user in Scotland 9 >who is hoping to get an Alpha from a local supplier. All ! >suggestions gratefully received.  >  >Thanks, >Erik Ahlefeldt   1 Your Scottish user could try Microsystem Support:  http://www.microsystem.co.uk/.  @ We've used them a few times and they come up with the goods at a
 decent price.     
 Best regards,    Gerald.    Gerald Marsh  4 gerald -at_Sign- cyfer -dot- demon -dot- co -dot- uk, (And I really get miffed having to do that!)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 05:33:50 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> S Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I  prevent this? 0 Message-ID: <1038ilue0m2hq10@corp.supernews.com>   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: C : Since your database application is probably ignoring FFB, but may C : be paying attention to EBK, you may have just truncated your file  : by one block.    : Suggested solution:   * : 1.  Save and restore FFB.  Just in case.  7 : 2.  If the restored FFB is zero, restore EBK as EOF+1 9 :     If the restored FFB is non-zero, restore EBK as EOF   
 Thank you.   FFB was 0 in all the files.   - I'll try setting EBK = EOF + 1 when FFB == 0.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 05:38:21 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> S Subject: Re: BACKUP/COPY change file's allocated size. WHY? How do I  prevent this? 0 Message-ID: <1038iudrth3dfd7@corp.supernews.com>  . John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> wrote:N : Logically, this is still the same thing as the starting position.  I presumeL : that EOF is an artifact invented for the purposes of F$FILE(), as the onlyC : RMS/ACP fields are EBK and FFB.  However, it is already clear the L : application is a bit broken, so whether it understands that 512 in block N- : is the same as 0 in block N+1 is debatable.   I If F$FILE() understood EBK (as it does FFB), there would be no ambiguity.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 20:34:41 +0000 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> * Subject: Re: Change resolution on ZLXp-L2?8 Message-ID: <0qi73099sfhnav1f224kbh0jkqffvhfluh@4ax.com>  D On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:44:11 +0100, martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) wrote:  B >I recently acquired an AlphaStation 200 4/233. To my surprise, itC >contains a ZLXp-L2. Now, I know that this card isn't supported any $ >more but thought I'd give it a try.  ' According to this Open3D release notes: H http://www1.sqp.com/MasterIndex/release_notes/release_notes_00a262b4.txt  F "The ZLXp-L series displays data at only one resolution and frequency:E 1280x1024 at 72Hz. Attempting to use a monitor that is not capable of I supporting this resolution and frequency will not work. The ZLXp-L boards D are capable of supporting other resolutions and frequencies, but theK software necessary to effect the change is not available in DIGITAL Open3D. 2 This is a permanent restriction for this device.."  G >DECwindows starts up okay, but unfortunately my monitor (Compaq 7500 - H >nice gadget otherwise) can't cope with the default 1280x1024@72Hz, i.e.= >as soon as DECwindows starts, it's "out of frequency range".  > @ >The ZLX' user's guide has a table of supported resolutions that >goes down to 640x480@60Hz.   G I guess there are no dip-switches on the back like the -E models have ?   C >The usual tricks - setting up DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM to set G >decw$[xy]size_in_pixels symbols and decw$server_refresh_rate logical - C >don't work. Neither does DECW$DEVICE_CONFIG_GU.COM give any clues.  > H >Is there a way to switch the resolution to something lower or do I have6 >to scrap the card or go hunting for a VRT17 or VRC21?  K Those notes suggest only in software that VMS lacks.  It might be easier to H find a capable monitor.  It's not an especially high spec these days, asL long as you can generate combined or separate sync (I'm guessing that's whatK the VGA-enable switch does).  Sync-on-green seems to come and go.  I notice L it's reappearing on some TFT monitors, but often only with wacky connectors.   --  " I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize.    Mail john rather than nospam...    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2004 17:35:03 -0800$ From: issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho) Subject: Changing IP address= Message-ID: <d0141774.0402191735.55f0e55d@posting.google.com>    Simple question really... F 2x Alpha cluster (VMS 7.1, Pathworks 5.0f & UCX 4.1) with quorum disk./ I want to change the IP addresses of the boxes. E Now obviously I need to run UCX$CONFIG but do I need to watch for any E other gotchas? The only other main service being offered is Pathworks  to mainly Win9x clients., How about reboots? Should they be necessary?   Many thanks.   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Feb 2004 04:32:11 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com ' Subject: DECnet-plus "SET HOST" problem , Message-ID: <c142kb02s4q@enews2.newsguy.com>  H I'm running DECnet-plus on my VMS server, and recently I discovered that5 "SET HOST" to the local host no longer seems to work.    $ set host monk = %SYSTEM-F-UNREACHABLE, remote node is not currently reachable  $   G I'm honestly not sure if I can "SET HOST" to a remote host, as the only K other system I've had up running DECnet was a RSTS/E system that I'm trying  to get DECnet configured on.  L I can't figure out what I could have done to break this, and I can't figure B out where I could look.  I don't see anything in the OPERATOR.LOG.   			Zane    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:05:33 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>" Subject: Re: DESTA Director RWASTs6 Message-ID: <4034360D.9E91F3CF@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Robert Fairfield wrote:  >  > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message news:<4030287A.C5BA5156@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>...
 > > Folks, > > L > > We have an on-going problem with DESTA Director in (the product formerlyI > > known as Compaq Analyze) sometimes referred to as "WEBES". Before you G > > ask the version, assume all versions V4.x and later as the repeated G > > upgrades requested by the CSC have failed to solve the problem. VMS  > > versions V7.2-2 and later. > > G > > The "DESTA Director" process leaks BIOLM and eventually hangs in an ; > > RWAST state with a BIOCNT (remaining BIOLM) of zero(0).  > > J > > Does anyone here in userland know the cause and/or a possible fix? The7 > > authors and the support folks appear to be stumped.  > > K > > In this specific case, the RWAST can be cleared by issuing a DESTA STOP I > > command, waiting for that timeout, then go into SDA, find all the MBA L > > devices being held open by the process, and COPY the null device (NLA0:)F > > to them one by one so that outstanding I/Os will complete (with anD > > end-of-file condition). (I have some DCL that does this for me.) > F > My solution (after working with the CSC & HP Engineering for several@ > months) was to not leave the DESTA Director running. In my VMSF > startup, I start DESTA so the logicals are defined, and then I issueE > the DESTA STOP command. Most of the HP products I use need only the F > logicals defined, but the the DESTA Director itself does not need to
 > be running.   H The latest news on this front indicates that the WEBES group IS stumped.  ) Question: Do you run this with (fka UCX)?    We run Multinet.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:08:16 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>" Subject: Re: disk drive partition?6 Message-ID: <1040219204816.15727D-100000@Ives.egh.com>  - On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Stanley F. Quayle wrote:   . > On 11 Feb 2004 at 12:22, Jim Strehlow wrote:, > > Can I "partition" an OpenVMS disk drive? >  > Sorry, no. > : > > We will do everything on one ODS-5 disk if necessary.  > E > Recent versions of VMS support ODS-5 as the system disk.  Probably  G > the best way to go, unless you cluster with VAX systems (which don't   > understand ODS-5).  ? Actually, VAX VMS V7.3 can read and write ODS-5 disks just fine @ (MSCP-served from an Alpha V7.3-1 system), except for one or two@ things.  1) the VAX can't see any files or directories that haveA invalid ODS2 names (or at least they display very strangely), and E 2) (maybe - I haven't confirmed this, but it seems likely) it doesn't @ preserve hard link counts, if you have this enabled.  (I've seenE incorrect hardlink counts in ANA/DISK that probably are due to this.)    > F > > Can we split that drive into two disks ... one ODS-2 and the other	 > > ODS-5  > C > Sorta.  You could download the LD or VD driver from the Freeware  G > disk, and allocate a big "container file".  The driver allows you to  D > "mount" the container as a disk, which could be formatted in your  > choice of file systems.  >   C This could also be useful if the application demands multiple disks @ (for example a database disk and a transaction journal disk) andC wants them to be separate physical disks.  You could probably trick ? it into running on a single-disk system by using multiple LD or ? VD units.  (I wouldn't recommend this for production, since you ? would lose the protection against broken hardware, and it might B cause performance problems due to head thrashing, but it should be  fine for a demo or test system.)    C > I do something like this on a 500 MHz Alpha, and it works okay...  > --Stan Quayle  > Quayle Consulting Inc.   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:05:04 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon0 Message-ID: <kkRYb.634$uf7.424@news.cpqcorp.net>  + JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote: D > The big question for HP is HPUX. Does HPUX share commoon code base > between PaRisc and IA64 ?   E Speaking strictly to the question above, apart from the stuff that is C written in assembly/the hardware-specific stuff, HP-UX has a common ) source base for PA-RISC and IPF versions.   
 rick jones --  G oxymoron n, commuter in a gas-guzzling luxury SUV with an American flag F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:24:21 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! ' Message-ID: <40350D65.1050608@MMaz.com>    --=_IS_MIME_Boundary$ Content-Type: multipart/alternative;0  boundary="------------070601050205080100030500"  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------0706010502050801000305009 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit    Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote:   > Dirk Munk wrote: >  >>> H >> I haven't read them yet, but that isn't the point. I know those kind G >> of brochures, and they make great reading for us believers. But ask  G >> your managers if they got one of those brochures in the mail. I can   >> give you the answer *NO*. >>H >> That is the problem. We can get all the upbeat material we need from F >> the HP web site. But what does HP marketing want us to do with it? I >> Print it out, put a staple through the pages, and send it by internal   >> mail to the management? >>E >> WE know VMS is great. Hell, even our SUN, HP UX and Tru64 support  I >> staff are convinced that VMS is a superior operating system. Even our  C >> management knows! But as long as HP fails to give us any public  E >> marketing support, we CAN'T SELL IT. It is as simple as that, and  + >> that is why I used the term 'betraying'.  >>D > The old /DEC Professional/ and /VAX Professional/ mags were often I > called the mouth pieces of Digital, but they served a valued purposes,  H > that being the conveying of technical and marketing information about G > the Digital line of products...  Other pubs of that era also existed  G > but nothing like that exists today for the specific VMS markets; You  D > can find them for PC's, Windows, Internet, Gaming, Security, even  > Linux, but VMS, nope!  > B Another interesting comment printed in May '04's Linux Magazine's ' Product Reviews titled Sexy and 64-bit:   & In November 2003, Linux Torvalds said:  H /The reason Alpha died wasn't technology.  Alpha died because you can't F afford to push an architecture that doesn't have wide appeal.  That's G why AMD64 and the POWER architectures are interesting, and why Itanium  A eventually will die unless Intel starts seriously changing their  I approach.  AMD64 and POWER - in Opteron and the 970, respectively - both  6 have 64-but architectures with very real, wide appeal. /  Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                               & --------------070601050205080100030500) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   ? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">  <html> <head>I   <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">    <title></title>  </head>  <body> Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote:<br>< <blockquote cite="mid403503A0.9030008@MMaz.com" type="cite">I   <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">    <title></title>  Dirk Munk wrote:<br>I   <blockquote cite="midc12udg$qc6$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl" type="cite">       <blockquote type="cite"><br>     </blockquote> G I haven't read them yet, but that isn't the point. I know those kind of E brochures, and they make great reading for us believers. But ask your G managers if they got one of those brochures in the mail. I can give you  the answer *NO*. <br>      <br>D That is the problem. We can get all the upbeat material we need fromB the HP web site. But what does HP marketing want us to do with it?E Print it out, put a staple through the pages, and send it by internal  mail to the management? <br>     <br>G WE know VMS is great. Hell, even our SUN, HP UX and Tru64 support staff ? are convinced that VMS is a superior operating system. Even our ? management knows! But as long as HP fails to give us any public F marketing support, we CAN'T SELL IT. It is as simple as that, and that( is why I used the term 'betraying'. <br>     <br>   </blockquote> E The old <i>DEC Professional</i> and <i>VAX Professional</i> mags were B often called the mouth pieces of Digital, but they served a valued= purposes, that being the conveying of technical and marketing J information about the Digital line of products...&nbsp; Other pubs of thatD era also existed but nothing like that exists today for the specificC VMS markets; You can find them for PC's, Windows, Internet, Gaming, ( Security, even Linux, but VMS, nope!<br>   <br>
 </blockquote> A Another interesting comment printed in May '04's Linux Magazine's + Product Reviews titled Sexy and 64-bit:<br>  <br>* In November 2003, Linux Torvalds said:<br> <br>H <i>The reason Alpha died wasn't technology.&nbsp; Alpha died because youI can't afford to push an architecture that doesn't have wide appeal.&nbsp; E That's why AMD64 and the POWER architectures are interesting, and why B Itanium eventually will die unless Intel starts seriously changingL their approach.&nbsp; AMD64 and POWER - in Opteron and the 970, respectivelyA - both have 64-but architectures with very real, wide appeal.<br>  </i><br>	 Barry<br> ( <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--    Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Treahy@MMaz.com">Treahy@MMaz.com</a>> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320B Vice President &amp; CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            </pre> </body>  </html>   ( --------------070601050205080100030500-- --=_IS_MIME_Boundary* Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;!      name="VirusWall_Message.txt"  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Content-Disposition: attachment;%      filename="VirusWall_Message.txt"   3 ----------------------------------------- (on MML2)   . [AZ] email-body was scanned and no virus found9 ---------------------------------------------------------    --=_IS_MIME_Boundary--   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:44:32 +0100  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! 2 Message-ID: <c10qq4$73f$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:9 > "Billy O'Connor" <billyoc@gnuyork.org> wrote in message * > news:87u11os3rj.fsf@dps11.gnuyork.org... >  > E >>Have there been any official announcements about the future of VMS?  >  > M > Eh?  Like what?  VMS continues to execute to it's roadmap, and exceeds it's  > forecasts. >  > J I suppose that is why all the time we get questions like "we are going to M discontinue our VMS sytems over the coming years, but meanwhile we need some  > people to keep those systems up and running. Can you help us?"  N Yep, HP is really doing what it can to keep VMS in business. The marketing is Q great. We went from 80% VMS to 60% SUN, hundreds of systems. No wonder Andrew is  < in this newsgroup. He is reponsible for VMS marketing at HP.  O No offense to you Fred, but sometimes I really get pissed off by the way HP is  Q betraying the efforts of many people in this group to keep VMS in the picture as  9 a viable platform. We get no public support what so ever.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:06:35 GMT 3 From: Robert Klute <robert_klute_removethis@hp.com> C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! 8 Message-ID: <9mt730hp1tj18i51hhj09ifmaeolgm1n18@4ax.com>  H On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:06:34 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:    L >HP need to tackle the issue. They cannot pretend nothing happened otherwiseM >they will lose credibility. IA64 has just been relegated to low volume niche K >market and has absolutely 0 of the originally promised benefits (low cost, L >industry standard, commodity). Goeing forward with IA64 today means that HPM >will need to support 4 additional platforms (VMS, NSK, HPUX, Linux) on their E >IA64 boxes, and then support them on the 8086, on to of the original  >VAX/Alpha/MIPS/PaRisc support.   H Why all the platform support?  HP could support VMS, NSK, HPUX, Windows,H and Linux on IA-64.  Then support 32-bit and x86-64 Windows and Linux onD on its Industry Standard Server (ISS) boxes (whether they use AMD or@ Intel chips).  The legacy support would slowly dissappear as the architectures are retired.  E Even though it was announced in July (if I remember correctly), there A are still no 8ways based on the Opteron 800.  Intel appears to be H focusing in on the desktop to 2way space with it's offering.  Cray stillB talks about Red Storm with lots of caveats and warnings in its SEC@ disclosures.  So, right now, I see little evidence of the x86-64H architectures being generally used in anything other than the desktop to 4way space.   F That leaves IA-64 as Intel's offering in the large SMP space.  It is aD place Microsoft wants to be.  Its gives HP a single architecture forA enterprise systems and a separate one for ISS.  Coming from a Big C Iron/Tin background, I just don't see what being able to run a 8086 . derivative ISA brings to the enterprise table.    
 Robert Klute, 8 Who speaks for himself and not the company he works for.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 01:18:04 GMT ' From: nospam <x@wedontwantyourspam.com> C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! 5 Message-ID: <BC5A5A06.23717%x@wedontwantyourspam.com>   J in article c10qq4$73f$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl, Dirk Munk at munk@home.nl wrote on 19/02/2004 09:44:   > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:O > Yep, HP is really doing what it can to keep VMS in business. The marketing is O > great. We went from 80% VMS to 60% SUN, hundreds of systems. No wonder Andrew  > is  > > in this newsgroup. He is reponsible for VMS marketing at HP.  J I've been hanging around c.o.v for the last few weeks, I'll tune out againH soon as usually and come back in a year or so, when some flight of fancyH pulls me back to my roots. I've done this several times and every time IK find Andrew is still here posting the same energetic "down with VMS" stuff. K Like all nay sayer's he will eventually be right. Not that I agree with him L cause I know he's just out to down VMS regardless but he is starting to seem* more sane and getting some external help:)J     I have lost all love for the company that was once know as DEC, and ifD they ceased to exist in there current form, I'd schedule no tears ;)            ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 03:29:52 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! ) Message-ID: <403473CC.7C5D790A@istop.com>    Dirk Munk wrote:O > On the other hand they also kind of represent HP in this forum. So if we have Q > anything to grumble at HP, I'm afraid they have to function as messenger to HP.   L Correct. But one must be careful to direct the criticism at HP and not at anM individual. They're only delivering the message, and when speaking here, they - are not free to say what they *really* think.   O > public marketing for VMS. Those morons at HP marketing still don't understand M > that the general idea regarding the future of VMS is still dominated by the K > infamous "move to Unix or Windows" statements by Bob Palmer. HP or Compaq B > *never* did anything very public to change that picture of VMS.   L Either they know full well that the lack of exposure is hurting VMS, or theyJ don't know. But many people can tell you that they have been told that the! lack of marketing is hurting VMS.   G And this si where I am somewhat worried. Many of the VMS engineers have H mentioned that they don't personally believe that VMS would benefit fromL mainstream advertising. This is troubling because I have a feeling that they7 may be genuinely honest and share HP/Compaq's position.   G What this means is that there is nobody fighting for VMS to be properly $ marketed inside the HP organisation.  J During the compaq years, VMS had been given a reprieve from retirement andJ Marcello had gotten permission and a modest budget for marketing. This wasM called the "renaissance" and we did see markleting, including some billboards K in europe, as well as flashing balls sent to VMS loyalists :-) And this had M had very positive results with growth near 10%. (compared to decline the year F before that). However, that "renaissance" was not allowed to continue.  N Now, of course, Marcello has gone to the enemy, higher up the chain of commandN and his job security probably prevents him from fighting for VMS. Gorham wouldN have to know about the renaissance period. But again, probably for his job job' security, he can't rock the boat at HP.   P > I have seen video statements by Carly that "OpenVMS is a strategic product forQ > HP". Why not send brochures with this statement to HP customers? Why don't they > > explicitely revoke Bob Palmer's strategy in such a brochure?  L Au contraire, they keep on repeating how they intend to continue on the sameL path by honouring that infamous roadmap. This, after they had been told thatH this roadmap was a liability to VMS and that HP should instead kill thatG roadmap and advertsise that VSM was under new managerent and start with > neutral credibility instead of extremely negative credibility.      L HP has been told. Perhaps they truly are stupid and do not understand VMS atK all and don't belive what customers are telling HP management. Perhaps they N are fully aware and are not stupid and purposefully avoid marketing/mentioningQ VMS unless absolutely necessary because their long term plans do not include VMS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:07:23 +0100  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! 2 Message-ID: <c11o91$hgi$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Dirk Munk wrote: > P >>No offense to you Fred, but sometimes I really get pissed off by the way HP isR >>betraying the efforts of many people in this group to keep VMS in the picture as; >>a viable platform. We get no public support what so ever.  >  > I > In fairness, Sue has recently offered to help whenever someone sees bad N > marketing. The tone of her message was quite different and more "blunt" thanJ > usual.  You have to understand that HP employees are expected to toe theJ > corporate line so you cannot expect to see the likes of Mr Kleinsorge orL > Hoffman start to criticize IA64 or HP's decisions, or HP's omission of VMS5 > from its marketing. You cannot blame them for this.   N I do understand this, and I don't blame or critize any of them personally. On Q the contrary I'm convinced of their good intentions and support for VMS, and I'm  $ very happy with their contributions.  N On the other hand they also kind of represent HP in this forum. So if we have O anything to grumble at HP, I'm afraid they have to function as messenger to HP.   P Regarding Sue's offer to help with bad marketing, well that is not the issue in O many cases. The problem is there is *NO* marketing. How can we try to convince  M customers to stay with VMS. let alone to move to VMS,  if they don't see any  N public marketing for VMS. Those morons at HP marketing still don't understand L that the general idea regarding the future of VMS is still dominated by the J infamous "move to Unix or Windows" statements by Bob Palmer. HP or Compaq Q *never* did anything very public to change that picture of VMS. Believe me, this  = is what I hear all the time when I'm speaking with customers.   O I have seen video statements by Carly that "OpenVMS is a strategic product for  P HP". Why not send brochures with this statement to HP customers? Why don't they < explicitely revoke Bob Palmer's strategy in such a brochure?  O We all know that nothing is so difficult as reversing a negative image about a  I product. And what public efforts have Compaq and HP done for VMS in this  I respect? Nothing, absolutely nothing. HP's VMS non-marketing division is  P effectively working as SUN's marketing division, and very well too I can assure  you.   > M > I suspect that once properly inhibriated with the right quantities of their G > prefered liquid, they may be made to forget their obligation to their  > employers and speak frankly. > M > The good old days of DECUS were great for this type of stuff when you could  > meet your DECrep and  N > talk far more openly outside formal setting (eg: at restaurant or hotel bar) >  > <breaking news> N > In this week's Star Trek episode, the doctor is expected to restart the WarpM > Drive all by himself. He is quoted saying "Are you expecting me to read the N > manual ?" (next scene, he is reading the warp drive manuals). I thought this > was a great joke.  > </breaking news>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:10:08 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! ' Message-ID: <4035A4C0.4080706@MMaz.com>    Robert Klute wrote:   M >>HP need to tackle the issue. They cannot pretend nothing happened otherwise N >>they will lose credibility. IA64 has just been relegated to low volume nicheL >>market and has absolutely 0 of the originally promised benefits (low cost,M >>industry standard, commodity). Goeing forward with IA64 today means that HP N >>will need to support 4 additional platforms (VMS, NSK, HPUX, Linux) on theirF >>IA64 boxes, and then support them on the 8086, on to of the original  >>VAX/Alpha/MIPS/PaRisc support. >>     >> > I >Why all the platform support?  HP could support VMS, NSK, HPUX, Windows, I >and Linux on IA-64.  Then support 32-bit and x86-64 Windows and Linux on E >on its Industry Standard Server (ISS) boxes (whether they use AMD or A >Intel chips).  The legacy support would slowly dissappear as the  >architectures are retired.  >    > G Do you really believe MS is going to spend the money to support X86-64  C and IA-64?  Nope, which means that HP is dealing with a low-volume  1 processor!  Doesn't Windows on Alpha ring a bell?   F >Even though it was announced in July (if I remember correctly), thereB >are still no 8ways based on the Opteron 800.  Intel appears to be? >focusing in on the desktop to 2way space with it's offering.    > 0 Though there are quads out using the 800 series.   >Cray still C >talks about Red Storm with lots of caveats and warnings in its SEC A >disclosures.  So, right now, I see little evidence of the x86-64 I >architectures being generally used in anything other than the desktop to  >4way space. >    >   G >That leaves IA-64 as Intel's offering in the large SMP space.  It is a  >place Microsoft wants to be.    > G If MS wanted to be there, they would have had better support for IA-64  J long ago, they haven't because the performance wasn't where it belonged...  ' >Its gives HP a single architecture for B >enterprise systems and a separate one for ISS.  Coming from a BigD >Iron/Tin background, I just don't see what being able to run a 8086/ >derivative ISA brings to the enterprise table.  >    > I I don't either, but it was HP/Compaq that killed Alpha, not the customer  F base and for HP to pretend that the IA-64 is not at risk, is patently  silly...   Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:45:22 +0000 (UTC) # From: nobody@cryptorebels.net (edo) F Subject: Re: JFK Airtrain: Good News, Bad News, Good News and Bad News? Message-ID: <699cb7e3bf7e5a55484c6073386e71f9@cryptorebels.net>A  % JF Mezei <nobody@nobody.com> trolled:H   >Miguel Cruz wrote:iL >> >> I don't know where you've been for the last few postings, but that has2 >> >> nothing to do with what we're talking about. >> >L >> > Oh really,Miguel? Why pretend, we both know perfectly well what this is, >> > about. You want me to have an abortion. >> iN >> Don't try to pin this on me. If you get an abortion it will be your choice.L >> I'm sick of this argument. I'm going to stay at my mom's for a few weeks. >iJ >Mr Cruz, you clearly aren't a bona fide rec.travel.air participant if youO >don't instantly recognize such an obvious quote from the all-time flying biblew >called "Airplane !!!".8 >!M >I am very disapointed. As a punishement, you need to rent the "Airplane !!!" H >documentary and watch it twice in a row. And no freeze frame during theN >gratuitous scenes where you see breasts bouncing around. Janet Jackson wasn't- >the first one to show her breasts in public.a  O Maybe others have better things to do with their time than indulge your teenagee" sexual fantasies.  Just a thought.  -                ==============================t*                 FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS  -                                         Abouta  0                                  J F   M E Z E I.                 ==============================  9 Author:  Michael Voight "mrtravelkay" <mvoight@cisco.com>!   1.  Who is JF Mezei?  G Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever hiteJ rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also one of the) longest running trolls in usenet history.t  " 2.  How long has he been trolling?   For well over a decade.f   3.  Where does he live?i   Montreal, Quebec, Canada   Jean-Francois Mezei- 86 Harwood Gate- Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3- (514) 695-8259  * 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll?  H His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades yourO newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, day in and day out,uO every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He does not listen to pleaskI to stop, he does not listen to anything anyone tells him, he does not payhO attention when the misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he justeM goes right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his earsgG closed while yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear anything you say!"o   5.  What does he troll about?S  P His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  He hates theK USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn it into a USA-bashingeC fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just start making lewd posts.A  $ 6.  What does he hate about the USA?  P Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have a visceralP hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a happier, better, moreJ successful version of their country and they can't stand it.  Some of JF'sN favorite troll bait is "the Bush regime", "the Bush-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz axis ofJ evil", "Americans are brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are stupid" etc.  # 7.  What about his sexual trolling?i  P Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre.  Among hisI favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women's genitalia, sex toys,EM circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of course) ... the list is endless.K   8.  Circumcision???0  P Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes to insertF circumcision into his trolling every now and then.  Apparently, JF wasP traumatized as a child because his parents, poor Hungarian immigrants to Canada,O left him uncircumcised when he was born, as is the custom in most of the world. N Growing up in Canada where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time,O he was psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he arrangedED to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades of circumcisionN proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a free willy.  His mainO argument is how much better he was able to masturbate after getting circumciseddM without that "pesky foreskin" getting in the way of his enjoyment, and he has2> made it his mission in life to spread the circumcision gospel.  H 9.  What's his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of freaky.  N Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among the subjects dearO to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, especially little boy's2J foreskins (and how tight they are) and little girls' hymens.  He is also aK tireless activist and advocate that children should be taught to masturbatepH early on so that they don't grow up "sexually repressed like Americans".  L He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check their littleM boys' penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, proper movement,bO and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.  Utopia for JF would be a > world full of parents manipulating their little boys' penises.  M 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the minute!  AreD you sure about all this stuff?  P Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There's over a decade full of Mezei trolling in there.o  M 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn't he change aliases all the time likes all trolls do?  K Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known trollinge aliases.  G 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn't he work?t  O Ha ha ha!  JF hasn't worked a day in his life!  He's an adult baby, a grown manEO who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and trolls the newsgroupsrM all night.  In his free time when he isn't trolling he likes to ride his bikeuG down to Dorval Airport and race the planes down the runway in his bike.d  9 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something?2  M Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man's body.  Psychologically he never got past G the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor (i.e. "pull mysH finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been able to outgrow.  L 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about them, is
 that true?  M Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in the locker room. N He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has seen in locker rooms overP the years, especially his unnatural obsession with foreskins.  He stalks the menO in locker rooms trying to measure how much foreskin they have, or how little iseN left if they have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he spots a case of phimosis.   O 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an insane asylum!b  M Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin foil hatTN world where others are out to get him.  The key to understanding JF is that heL sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the world is out to get him, especially the) USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all about.3  O What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian rail system wassJ "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut, spotting trains,N writing down their numbers and chasing them down at the train yard like a goodM freak.  Then he turned his attention to aviation.  Major events that made him P fall head first deep into the abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadian Airlines andO their subsequent takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  So paranoid ishM he that when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada employees O went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to cover up the AireD Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up of the crash1 investigation.  He has never recovered from this.r  6 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him!  O His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to some ancient,MJ arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has taken seriously forM decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and social dropouts who sharetJ his psychological traumas, crying for the good old vax days of yore.  It's really pathetic!  ! 17.  Where else does he hang out?m  I can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geeky computeroG groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster he invaded theeN sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, and trolled it relentlesslyP with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crap he's so famous for.  But they ranN him off that group and he had to go crawling back to comp.os.vms with his tail% between his legs, licking his wounds.s  P 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and doesn't troll.  O Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it's impossible not to troll, so he slipsOP in troll bait every now and then, but by and large he respects comp.os.vms, and,L more importantly, he tries to hide his trolling activities from them so they* won't find out what a major netkook he is.  P 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind of psycho he is!  O Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And while you're atoI it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fido too.  And tosO alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.d  4 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address?  H Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts to:   abuse@sympatico.ca abuse@bellglobal.com abuse@istop.comg  P And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups, email it toP people, you may host it at your own website, send it to newspapers and magazinesI that do Internet articles or anything to do with Montreal or Canada, etc.-     *** APPENDIX ***  P List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over the years.  This isK only a partial list, he has so many it's impossible to compile a full list.g   jfmezei@istop.comF jfmezei.spamnot@istop.comw jfmezei@videotron.ca jfmezei@vl.videotron.cao nospam.jfmezei@videotron.can "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam]   nobody <nobody@nobody.com> nobody <nobody@nobody.net> nobody <nobody@nobody.org> nobody <nobody@nobody.info>S nobody <nobody@nobody.int> nobody <nobody@nothing.nil>  nobody <nobody@null.dev> muklak <muklak@eskimo.net> Sheep skin <sheep@station.au> # snowy squirrel <squirrel@nest.tree> ) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>a& Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>2 Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> " Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>$ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>n' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com>h" Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org> ' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org>r( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>"' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org>o% Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>w Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org> ! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> # Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>i  Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>m Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>o$ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>s! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>t  Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>n% Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>-$ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com> & Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org>:% Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>-& Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>w' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>l( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>s' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org>t% Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> $ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>.( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>r" Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>i& Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> ) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>r' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>0" Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org> * Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org> * Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>t Q <queue@continuum.net>. Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>   ; *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY*w   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:40:06 GMTo# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)aY Subject: Re: Marketeering and Software Engineering (was: Re: Solved: "Known problems withw0 Message-ID: <WYQYb.628$p37.329@news.cpqcorp.net>   In article <c0i8u8$maq$3@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  : :But thats the world OpenVMS now exists in like it or not,; :with an annual revenue of ~$250 million aquiring code frome< :other sources rather than writing code from scratch becomes
 :a necessity.s  E   The OpenVMS use of open-source, of industry silicon vendors, and ofuG   the continued work and extensions on existing and new code is little oE   different at most any other vendors.  Sun certainly has its use of rH   AMD64, of Apache, of Linux, of various other open-source packages, andE   many other similarities to that of OpenVMS engineering development.S  H   As for OpenVMS, there are a whole lot of us presently writing new codeD   and also updating existing code for upcoming OpenVMS releases, of H   course -- in addition to the obvious on-going work such as the porting.   of the new Mozilla and Apache releases, etc.  G   If we want to discuss IP stack heritage, well, we can debate that all D   the way back to the BSD parentage that is so widely prevalent. :-)  F   Now if you'll excuse me, my device driver debugging compilation passG   has completed, and I'm off to (probably) crash the system again.  :-)   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqvN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com-   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:05:56 +0000 (UTC)n6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)6 Subject: Re: Mozilla for OpenVMS Alpha V1.5 available!1 Message-ID: <newscache$di1bth$8fu1$1@news.sil.at>-  i In article <newscache$28s1th$iy8$1@news.sil.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:"` >In article <L0cXb.422$Jy1.247@news.cpqcorp.net>, "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> writes:G >>I just pulled the kit, run the .exe and product installed the pcsi itu >>creates and it worked fine.. >> >>what is your exact error?  > C >Sorry, for the exact message you have to wait til monday at least. 1 >It was some kind of "kit not properly packaged"     It wasZ -PCSI-E-INVDOCMTL, internal error - product document has invalid product material ordering  G and turned out to be an invalid kit file. A later download (as I did atbB home) fixed the problem. It gave me a kit file with identical fileM organization and dates but different contents, which then installed properly.   F So the question is, if the download and/or unzipping corrupted my fileC (and how this can happen unnoticed) or if an invalid kit was on theS7 webserver in the very beginning and got fixed later on.S  M So, thanks folks. I got it and it runs (and crashes twice an hour on DWM 131)a   -- g Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERn% Network and OpenVMS system specialisti E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 22:17:02 GMTl" From: GreyCloud <mist@Cumulus.com>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study ... again! ... m7 Message-ID: <yBaZb.917$ss.23293@bcandid.telisphere.com>u   Bob Ceculski wrote:i   > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c0vr6e$8et$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...n > ! >>david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote:l >>d >>>In article <zA9Xb.27339$yE5.102621@attbi_s54>, glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes: >>>  >>>t' >>>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy v >>>>= >>>><Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message p0 >>>>news:<c0i9ip$mmv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>>>
 >>>>(snip) >>>> >>>>> >>>>Hacking rates are not so much related to how good a system? >>>>is, but how much of a target it is.   I still remember thatI> >>>>we were still running SunOS machines when Solaris became a? >>>>hacking target.  SunOS had more known bugs, but Solaris wasa> >>>>popular for running web servers.  Since that time, Windows@ >>>>NT and 2000 became popular web server OS, and joined Solaris >>>>as a hacking target. >>>>A >>>>If VMS can approach Solaris and Win2K in terms of running webeC >>>>servers, then I am sure it will also increase as a hack target.8 >>>> >>>  >>>PJ >>>This is the same garbage Microsoft tries to sell to show that it isn't K >>>really insecure it's just noone else has as many systems to be targeted.3 >>>-O >>>The fact that IIS has historically been much less secure than Apache despiterM >>>Apache having a much bigger market share shows that this is total rubbish.t >>>n
 >>>David Webbm >>>VMS and Unix team leader  >>>CCSS- >>>Middlesex University- >>>  >>>M >>F >>However Microsoft is not the exception that proves the rule. HackersF >>do have to be familiar with an OS to be able to hack it sucessfully. >>C >>You could argue that Microsoft is in the worst possible position,m@ >>sloppy codeing, poor architecture, a high degree of visibilityA >>and a hacker community well versed in its products. I don't saybC >>this in any attempt to defend Microsoft, having broadband at home@A >>has brought home to me how huge MS's problem appears to be from.< >>the volume of patches I get asked to apply to my XP box on >>a weekly basis.V >>D >>The SuSE desktop I also run at home provides similar functionalityC >>to my XP box actually slightly more because it has Apache and JEShB >>components running on it as well, the volume of security relatedB >>patches for SuSE however is much lower than for XP. I expect theB >>volume to increase as linux gets more popular on the desktop butA >>I don't expect it to approach the level that Windows users see.  >>D >>OpenVMS's relative obscurity as an OS is one reason why it is lessD >>likely to be hacked over and above any technical merit it may have >>from a security standpoint.u >>	 >>Regardse >>Andrew Harrison  >  > < > so you can't answer to any of the above or the IBM guy, so: > now you are back to the security thru obscurity mantra, = > because that is all you have to argue with ... and I run an-9 > openvms box from my home, and don't need to worry aboutu; > patches or hacks, because it is unhackable as declared bys: > defcon9 ... and I would say these guys know a few things > about computers!  6 How come I get the feeling that Andy is a sock puppet?   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2004 12:04:07 -0800 From: sdavidson@uss.com Y Subject: RDB database becomes disabled by remote user failures because of security regulae= Message-ID: <caf27c79.0402191204.4a58d6fb@posting.google.com>g  C We have RDB databases on several Alpha/VAX computers.  In order foroE our remote users to use the RDB database we the users put the name ofi@ the computer and the database in string to be use for access theG database (ex. A4VDHS"RDB_RMT_TST"::TST_DB_ROOT:[MVS.DB]MVSDGS_RDB.RDB)./C  Because of security we have to start disabling user accounts afterMB three login failures, this has already locked up our RDB database.F Trying to set proxies to the database does not seem too feasible sinceC so many users know the database names and most users want their ownlF account to default to their account on the computers not the database.C  Does anyone have any ideas on how to set up an account that can bea6 accessed remotely and not be disabled by VMS security?   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2004 05:08:44 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)w- Subject: Re: Restricting access to directory.,3 Message-ID: <EwqArWNOkuVK@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  ] In article <KhYYb.654$Wz7.242@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Rahul" <rahul.kulkarni@digital.com> writes:t > Hello,H >    I want to restrict the creation of a new file or modification of anL > existing file in a particular directory. This rule should be applicable toJ > all the accounts (accounts which have BYPASS privilege) including system
 > account.  B Whereas _I_ want Mideast Peace.  My chances are better than yours.  B The only protection against privileged users in extensive auditingC and their fear of punishment if the break the rules.  Of course anym@ person who could use the excuse that they did not understand theC effect of what they did with privilege does not deserve that access% to a privileged account.  9 >   or, is there any way to make files read_only in VMS ?k  > Writing the files to CDROM would prevent privileged users from= changing the data.  But it would not prevent privileged userss> from substituting a different CDROM or changing a logical name: or any number of other things.  See my previous paragraph.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 04:21:05 GMTn% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>I Subject: Re: SAN or NAS ? 9 Message-ID: <RQWYb.17844$Dg1.17047@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>f  3 John Brandon <brandon@dalsemi.com> wrote in message + news:04021808084765@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com...h= > Just wanted to see what the opinions of SAN or NAS were ...l >y- > I have a SAN environment on my VMS servers.I >r > The UNIX group has their NAS.u >oJ > They (UNIX) run ORACLE  and other database related applications on their NAS. >r7 > They (UNIX) think it a good idea - saves money - etc.   I Saves money yes!  but performance is limited to your already overburdened 
 network pipe.r  I > Even one (UNIX) states that there is no difference between SAN and NAS.: LOL  >0 >  > Or is the joke on me?p   The joke is on them definitely.s- Andrew did a good summary, now to add my bit.!  E All that I can say is that the Unix group either does not require thetI throughput to the database that you get from a SAN (Dedicated storage) or H they are happy with high disk queue wait states on a TCPIP network pipe. :-)P  J We had a recent issue at work with the AIX systems on our SAN.  After someJ close scrutiny of SAN performance and what to tweek, it turns out that theC AIX Unix systems access the same storage controllers in a radicallymK different  manner than VMS does.  VMS is fine with mirror sets.  AIX want 6tH drive raidsets.  I have the same Application running on both AIX and VMSL systems.  The AIX system has a higher disk throughput requirement to performK the same database queries.  The VMS system is not complaining of throughputt= problems where the AIX system says that my pipe is 100% full.   L HSG vs EVA is night and day.  I was transfering a complete production systemH from HSG LUNS to EVA LUNS today.   I monitored the disk que length whileJ doing this.  (actually I ran it twice just to collect the stats the secondH go-round)   The HSG's hit 250 to 300 as a max value where the EVA was 1. :-)   H Using a 1GIG SAN fabric, we measured about 20M/sec LUN throughput on theK HSG's (Max for that LUN, not the controller)  We got 80M/sec on the EVA.  It1 still need to test throughput on our 2Gig fabric..  G Unless your network backbone is also 1GIG, they cannot compete with theaL throughput of a SAN.  Even if they are at 1GIG, you could be at 2 GIG today.1 10 GIG in a year or two.  (I forget the timeline)g   > J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  > VMS Systems Administratori, > firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:51:22 +0100e: From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de>Y Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.4: DECnet/IP: remote nodes cannot translate address -> name -> namef* Message-ID: <c11pt1$rvn10@doiweb4.b2x.vwg>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:h > In article <c0i3d6$8sb8@doiweb4.b2x.vwg>, Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> writes: > K >>HP just confirmed, that this is a DECnet bug in V7.3-2, according to some Y >>'enhancements' in the protocol. Perhaps you should stay at DECnet V7.3-1 when upgradingr >>to VMS V7.3-2. >  > J > Because I saw a similar behaviour (and I have no support contract) I ask > D > 1) Did you see a different behaviour if the translated domainnamesG > are full or partial qualified domain names. For me it seems, that thea& > names are not used if they are FQDN. > = > 2) Did you try to SET HOST localhost and what did it show ?  > D > 3) Did you get a "Failure on the back translate address request" ? > Q When doing a SET HOST LOCALHOST I receive an 'back translate error', when doing au SET HOST 'nodename', it is ok.I > 4) Do you know for sure that DECnet-Plus V7.3-1 runs on OpenVMS 7.3-2 ?w= > The OpenVMS Alpha Software Rollout Report states otherwise.i > _ When memory serves me right, the upgrade procedure told me, that DECnet V7.3-1 is installed and-# I can keep it or upgrade to V7.3-2.e  l On the remote nodes the logical SYS$NET contains the IP$address string instead of the node.domain..., though" NSLOOKUPS etc work perfectly well. -- e  + mit freundlichen Gren | with best regardsi  3 Karl Rohwedder          | it-ingteam(at)t-online.deiA                          | extern.karl.rohwedder(at)volkswagen.det   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2004 12:12:07 -0800( From: gary.l.scott@lmco.com (Gary Scott)7 Subject: Re: VMS Fortran RTL restriction on file names?e= Message-ID: <6dad5570.0402191212.1b244a1c@posting.google.com>h  k Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com> wrote in message news:<16k9301tuhhgk57pgc8pt3cop8tll19asr@4ax.com>...pM > On 19 Feb 2004 07:32:54 -0600, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (BobK > Koehler) wrote:f > I > >   OK.  That's what I was planning to try anyhow.  Any plans to updateiJ > >   the RTL for long file names?  Is there any limit in the ANSI Fortran > >   standard?c > O > You'll have to ask HP about updates - I am no longer involved in that side ofnN > things. The ANSI Fortran standard says nothing at all about filename lengthsO > (nor about the minimum supported length of a character string, though one cang5 > make a good argument for 11 being the lower bound.)m  @ An logical argument might be possible.  I would have a hard time' considering it to be a "good" one...:-)s   >  >  >  > Steve Lionel > Software Products Division > Intel Corporationr > Nashua, NH > : > User communities for Intel Software Development Products$ >   http://softwareforums.intel.com/ > Intel Fortran Supportd9 >   http://developer.intel.com/software/products/support/    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2004 13:07:25 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)u+ Subject: Re: Welcome Package for IV NEWBIESe3 Message-ID: <aoTb2mMpAfW0@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  \ In article <04021808373526@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) writes:O > Wouldn't it be cool to have a "Welcome Package" sent to all new subsribers totQ > IV - basically an e-mail giving you links to products, software, hardware, FAQ,  > etc. >   A    All the others seem to be in the FAQ.  I think posting the FAQd    regularly fits the bill.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 20:37:25 +0100s" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>+ Subject: Re: Welcome Package for IV NEWBIES,4 Message-ID: <4033bf04$0$28433$636a15ce@news.free.fr>  
 so, a faq?   D.   John Brandon wrote:   N > My thought is simple, from time to time we get a NEWBIE asking where to findK > this, that, and the other thing - just thought it would be nice to have afP > packet sent to them at time of registration pointing them to that information.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 03:10:57 +0000 (UTC) % From: nobody@dizum.com (Nomen Nescio)s' Subject: Re: Who Killed Jesus? J F did!d8 Message-ID: <22ea260aa0064598e55e933b1e449f21@dizum.com>  % JF Mezei <nobody@nobody.com> trolled:   / > So, Jesus was a Jew. He was killed by Romans.r > F >Shoudn't israel  send its USA-approved WMDs  to Italy  to retaliate ?  M Might as well!  Waiting for the Canadians to show any leadership in the worldr we'll all perish.....@  -                ==============================,*                 FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS  -                                         Aboute  0                                  J F   M E Z E I.                 ==============================  9 Author:  Michael Voight "mrtravelkay" <mvoight@cisco.com>c   1.  Who is JF Mezei?  G Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever hitrJ rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also one of the) longest running trolls in usenet history.H  " 2.  How long has he been trolling?   For well over a decade.8   3.  Where does he live?    Jean-Francois Mezei  86 Harwood Gate  Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3f (514) 695-8259  * 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll?  H His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades yourO newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, day in and day out,.O every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He does not listen to pleas I to stop, he does not listen to anything anyone tells him, he does not pay O attention when the misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he justrM goes right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his earseG closed while yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear anything you say!"t   5.  What does he troll about?   P His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  He hates theK USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn it into a USA-bashingmC fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just start making lewd posts.g  $ 6.  What does he hate about the USA?  P Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have a visceralP hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a happier, better, moreJ successful version of their country and they can't stand it.  Some of JF'sN favorite troll bait is "the Bush regime", "the Bush-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz axis ofJ evil", "Americans are brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are stupid" etc.  # 7.  What about his sexual trolling?m  P Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre.  Among hisI favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women's genitalia, sex toys,rM circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of course) ... the list is endless.o   8.  Circumcision???   P Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes to insertF circumcision into his trolling every now and then.  Apparently, JF wasP traumatized as a child because his parents, poor Hungarian immigrants to Canada,O left him uncircumcised when he was born, as is the custom in most of the world. N Growing up in Canada where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time,O he was psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he arranged D to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades of circumcisionN proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a free willy.  His mainO argument is how much better he was able to masturbate after getting circumcisedrM without that "pesky foreskin" getting in the way of his enjoyment, and he hast> made it his mission in life to spread the circumcision gospel.  H 9.  What's his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of freaky.  N Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among the subjects dearO to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, especially little boy's J foreskins (and how tight they are) and little girls' hymens.  He is also aK tireless activist and advocate that children should be taught to masturbatesH early on so that they don't grow up "sexually repressed like Americans".  L He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check their littleM boys' penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, proper movement,sO and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.  Utopia for JF would be ae> world full of parents manipulating their little boys' penises.  M 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the minute!  Are  you sure about all this stuff?  P Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There's over a decade full of Mezei trolling in there.=  M 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn't he change aliases all the time like  all trolls do?  K Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known trollinga aliases.  G 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn't he work?s  O Ha ha ha!  JF hasn't worked a day in his life!  He's an adult baby, a grown maneO who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and trolls the newsgroups-M all night.  In his free time when he isn't trolling he likes to ride his bikehG down to Dorval Airport and race the planes down the runway in his bike.n  9 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something?d  M Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man's body.  Psychologically he never got pastsG the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor (i.e. "pull mysH finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been able to outgrow.  L 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about them, is
 that true?  M Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in the locker room.rN He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has seen in locker rooms overP the years, especially his unnatural obsession with foreskins.  He stalks the menO in locker rooms trying to measure how much foreskin they have, or how little isIN left if they have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he spots a case of phimosis.?  O 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an insane asylum!l  M Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin foil hateN world where others are out to get him.  The key to understanding JF is that heL sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the world is out to get him, especially the) USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all about.r  O What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian rail system wasxJ "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut, spotting trains,N writing down their numbers and chasing them down at the train yard like a goodM freak.  Then he turned his attention to aviation.  Major events that made himeP fall head first deep into the abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadian Airlines andO their subsequent takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  So paranoid isyM he that when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada employees O went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to cover up the Air D Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up of the crash1 investigation.  He has never recovered from this.w  6 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him!  O His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to some ancient,iJ arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has taken seriously forM decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and social dropouts who shareiJ his psychological traumas, crying for the good old vax days of yore.  It's really pathetic!  ! 17.  Where else does he hang out?h  I can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geeky computeroG groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster he invaded theaN sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, and trolled it relentlesslyP with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crap he's so famous for.  But they ranN him off that group and he had to go crawling back to comp.os.vms with his tail% between his legs, licking his wounds.t  P 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and doesn't troll.  O Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it's impossible not to troll, so he slipsrP in troll bait every now and then, but by and large he respects comp.os.vms, and,L more importantly, he tries to hide his trolling activities from them so they* won't find out what a major netkook he is.  P 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind of psycho he is!  O Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And while you're ataI it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fido too.  And tooO alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.e  4 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address?  H Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts to:   abuse@sympatico.ca abuse@bellglobal.com abuse@istop.coml  P And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups, email it toP people, you may host it at your own website, send it to newspapers and magazinesI that do Internet articles or anything to do with Montreal or Canada, etc.n     *** APPENDIX ***  P List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over the years.  This isK only a partial list, he has so many it's impossible to compile a full list.g   jfmezei@istop.com  jfmezei.spamnot@istop.comr jfmezei@videotron.ca jfmezei@vl.videotron.cai nospam.jfmezei@videotron.cae "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam]   nobody <nobody@nobody.com> nobody <nobody@nobody.net> nobody <nobody@nobody.org> nobody <nobody@nobody.info>t nobody <nobody@nobody.int> nobody <nobody@nothing.nil>a nobody <nobody@null.dev> muklak <muklak@eskimo.net> Sheep skin <sheep@station.au>i# snowy squirrel <squirrel@nest.tree> ) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>t& Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>t Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org>s" Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>$ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>t' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com>t" Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>a' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org>t( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>h' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org>"% Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>t Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>t! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org>t# Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>d  Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>  Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>e$ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>s! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>e  Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>o% Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org> $ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>e& Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> % Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>h& Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>l' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>m( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>h' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org>p% Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> $ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>s( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>i" Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>n& Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>s) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>s' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>o" Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org>h* Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org>i* Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>t Q <queue@continuum.net>  Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>m  ; *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY*l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 19:08:15 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> % Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?h0 Message-ID: <Paqdnc7lqOn_Y67dRVn-gQ@comcast.com>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------0205050401070103010705089 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=floweda Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitF  C The Alpha compilers will align the data for you unless you make it nI impossible for them to do so.  It has been a few years since I wrote any yF Fortran and I haven't any Alpha specific manuals to refer to.  Having D said that, there are basically two situations in which the compiler I can't align data for you.  The first is in a COMMON block which requires >G that the data be stored and aligned as declared; the only way to align oI it is to do it manually.  The easiest way is to order the data by length .F so that quadwords come first, then longwords, words, and bytes.  Even G better is to not use COMMON at all; in the dark ages it was the method yF you used to declare data that would be stored in the root module of a I program so that it would be available to overlays (remember those in the iA PDP11?).  Now, COMMON is used by lazy programmers to destroy the tI modularity of programs.  It was not uncommon, a few years ago, to find a NA large program with dozens of named COMMON blocks and hundreds or >I thousands of variables in COMMON.  Each function or subroutine would use oF one or two variables from each COMMON block so that each function and I subroutine had to declare most or all of them.   This meant that none of  B this code could be reused anywhere else because it was hopelessly E dependent on it's COMMON environment.  Of course you could, and some eB did, move the common environment right along with the function or D subroutine. . . .  See "Composite/Structured Design" by Glenford J. A Myers for chapter and verse on the evils of COMMON.  The man was  C amazing; years before objected oriented programming came along, he d= described something very like the "object" as we now know it.o  G The second situation in which the compiler can't align data for you is sF when you declare a structure that is not naturally aligned and forbid I the compiler to use "filler" to align it.  You would normally forbid the sF compiler to use filler only when your structure mapped a record which E you were reading from a binary file.  If you have this situation and s9 can't change the file/record design, you are truly stuck!n   Daryl Jones wrote:  $ >Dear Richard B. Gilbert and others: >aF >I am having a hard time trying to keep up on your discussion. Anyway,C >somewhere in this discussion, the topic is about the alignment and>G >difference between the VAX and Alpha. Listed below is discussion aboutmB >data alignment from "Migrating an Application from OpenVMS VAX to> >OpenVMS Alpha", version 7.0, page 2-9, paragraph 2.5.1.1 Data >Alignment.r >dE >"Accessing data not naturally aligned in memory incurs a significantcG >performance penalty both on the VAX and Alpha systems. On VAX systems,.A >most languages align data on the next available byte boundary byRE >default, because the VAX architecture provides hardware support that>D >minimizes the performance penalty in referencing unaligned data. OnD >Alpha systems, the default is to align each data item naturally, so@ >Alpha, like other RISC architectures, does not provide hardwareE >support to minimize the performance degradation from using unalignedc >data."r >sD >I recall that most VAX compilers did the data alignment for you but@ >not in the Alpha. The big key is that the VAX provided hardwareG >support for alignment problems and the Alpha and other RISC processorsmG >do not. However, it is stated in the above source that Alpha compliersnG >do correct the most potential alignment problems and you can catch the E >rest by adding the "/WARNING=ALIGNMENT" qualifier. It is possible to-  >correct the alignment problems. >1E >In summer of 1992, the NVAX chip claimed to be dramatically improved:= >performance over previous VAX microprocessors and results innF >performance that approaches and may exceed the performance of popularG >industry RISC microprocessors. This was accomplished by using pipelinenA >techniques traditionally associated with reduced instruction setaF >computer (RISC) CPU. There you have it, a VAX microprocessor that may1 >have had the raw performance of some RISC chips.u >sD >The VAX processor was design with the idea of supporting programmedD >languages, which includes branching, where as the Alpha wasn't. The< >Alpha processor is a Load/Store RISC architecture. The RISCF >architecture uses the compiler to optimize the program languages thus@ >branching. The raw power of the Alpha vs other chips was not asD >stellar as one would think. The later versions of the Alpha systemsE >performances were due to compiler optimization of the Alpha hardwaresF >configuration. Why was the VAX replaced by the Alpha? It is easier toE >design RISC architecture and write a compiler to optimize the use ofoF >the hardware configuration than to design a CISC chip to do the same. > # >Here is my two cents that subject.g >w	 >Regards,  >Daryl Jones >  >   l >"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<uLednbnOh_U3GqzdRVn-jw@comcast.com>... >  g > J >>Yes, the VAX is byte addressable.  So, I believe, is the Alpha.  If you I >>address your data as bytes there is no alignment problem!  If you want - >>larger units, align them.  >>H >>The VAX architecture had a known penalty for misalignment.  The Alpha I >>just has a larger penalty.  I think most RISC processors have a larger  E >>penalty for misalignment than their CISC predecessors.  Should the -K >>engineers have slowed down the processor and made it more expensive (for  J >>everybody) just to reduce the penalties for misalignment?  They elected E >>to have it lean, fast, and cheap (relatively).  For many years the 14 >>Alphas were the fastest iron that money could buy! >>D >>The VMS Fortran compiler aligns the start of COMMON on a quadword I >>boundary.    Perhaps you meant to say that the programmer neglected to dF >>put the REAL*16 first, followed by the REAL*8, REAL|INTEGER*4, .....J >>I followed that rule (descending order by length) for twenty-four years I >>of programming in Fortran.   I haven't written any lately.  COMMON and tJ >>Structures (in later versions of Fortran) are about the only places you L >>need to worry about alignment; the compiler takes care of everything else. >> >> >>Tom Linden wrote:  >> >>     >> >>> -----Original Message-----< >>> From: Richard B. Gilbert [mailto:rgilbert88@comcast.net]+ >>> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 4:05 PMe >>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coml) >>> Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?e >>>l >>>n >>> Right on,  Antonio!m >>>eI >>> I first met the issue of boundary alignment ca. 1970 with the IBM 360sI >>> Model 91.  It is just part of the way processors work.  The designers K >>> can make varying amounts of effort to "fix up" misaligned variables andLJ >>> can charge greater or lesser penalties for them.  I would imagine thatK >>> there are substantial costs involved both in engineering and in silicona. >>> to get maximum fixup with minimum penalty. >>>1G >>> Why should the rest of us pay extra so that incompetent programmers:H >>> don't have to think about alignment?  Especially since the compilersG >>> will do most of the work unless you insist on a structure of {byte,uG >>> word, longword, quadword} with no filler.  There is no way that theoI >>> compiler can align that!  For those not following this, the structure>G >>> aligns beautifully if you make it {quadword, longword, word, byte};3K >>> start it on a quadword boundary and everything falls neatly into place.  >>> C >>>Yes, but you don't have the freedom to align data except for newH >>>applications.M >>>I would venture to say that the bulk of FORTRAN employs COMMON that is not N >>>aligned.  So what does the bright cpu engineer do to overcome the alignment >>>penalty, M >>>he increases the memory bandwidth and inserts a barrel shifter.  What doest >>>theF >>>engineer without proper oversight do, he ignores the problem as not
 >>>important.s >>> L >>>In PL/I you can give a structure the aligned attribute, but in FORTAN you	 >>>can't;2? >>>moreover a lot of I/O to structures presumes data is packed.c >>>t> >>>Last I looked, the VAX was a byte addressable architecture. >>>u >>> Antonio Carlini wrote: >>>m >>> >t >>> >lL >>> >> Note that the Power PC has only a one tick penalty for unaligned data
 >>> >> access L >>> >> (which the Alpha engineers arrogantly refer to as misaligned access!) >>> >y >>> >oK >>> > Misaligned is misaligned. Most VAX processors also have penalties forcG >>> > misaligned accesses. The compilers hide these, where possible andwJ >>> > allowed, by padding structures. MACRO-32 programmers are expected toE >>> > be able to count! Plenty of other processors do the same thing.i >>> > 
 >>> > Antoniop >>> >a >>> > -- >>> >. >>> > ---------------b3 >>> > Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgl >>> >  >>>  >>> ---u* >>> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> >>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).D >>> Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004 >>>a >>>---) >>>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.n= >>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).oC >>>Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004y >>>y >>>  >>> 	 >>>      b >>>V  & --------------020505040107010301070508) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciiP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bits  ? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">o <html> <head>I   <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">e   <title></title>a </head>u' <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">>A The Alpha compilers <i>will </i>align the data for you unless you>K make it impossible for them to do so.&nbsp; It has been a few years since IeC wrote any Fortran and I haven't any Alpha specific manuals to refermK to.&nbsp; Having said that, there are basically two situations in which theuG compiler can't align data for you.&nbsp; The first is in a COMMON blocktC which requires that the data be stored and aligned as declared; theeL only way to align it is to do it manually.&nbsp; The easiest way is to orderG the data by length so that quadwords come first, then longwords, words,bJ and bytes.&nbsp; Even better is to not use COMMON at all; in the dark agesF it was the method you used to declare data that would be stored in theB root module of a program so that it would be available to overlaysA (remember those in the PDP11?).&nbsp; Now, COMMON is used by lazyoC programmers to destroy the modularity of programs.&nbsp; It was not4G uncommon, a few years ago, to find a large program with dozens of namedlJ COMMON blocks and hundreds or thousands of variables in COMMON.&nbsp; EachF function or subroutine would use one or two variables from each COMMONE block so that each function and subroutine had to declare most or allOO of them.&nbsp;&nbsp; This meant that none of this code could be reused anywhererJ else because it was hopelessly dependent on it's COMMON environment.&nbsp;D Of course you could, and some did, move the common environment rightL along with the function or subroutine. . . .&nbsp; See "Composite/StructuredB Design" by Glenford J. Myers for chapter and verse on the evils ofA COMMON.&nbsp; The man was amazing; years before objected orientedtE programming came along, he described something very like the "object"- as we now know it.<br> <br>F The second situation in which the compiler can't align data for you isE when you declare a structure that is not naturally aligned and forbidEI the compiler to use "filler" to align it.&nbsp; You would normally forbidsC the compiler to use filler only when your structure mapped a record,K which you were reading from a binary file.&nbsp; If you have this situation A and can't change the file/record design, you are truly stuck!<br>a <br> Daryl Jones wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite"p;  cite="mid8a646952.0402181404.7c3176fb@posting.google.com">d2   <pre wrap="">Dear Richard B. Gilbert and others:  E I am having a hard time trying to keep up on your discussion. Anyway,iB somewhere in this discussion, the topic is about the alignment andF difference between the VAX and Alpha. Listed below is discussion aboutA data alignment from "Migrating an Application from OpenVMS VAX toi= OpenVMS Alpha", version 7.0, page 2-9, paragraph 2.5.1.1 Datan
 Alignment.  D "Accessing data not naturally aligned in memory incurs a significantF performance penalty both on the VAX and Alpha systems. On VAX systems,@ most languages align data on the next available byte boundary byD default, because the VAX architecture provides hardware support thatC minimizes the performance penalty in referencing unaligned data. On<C Alpha systems, the default is to align each data item naturally, so8? Alpha, like other RISC architectures, does not provide hardwaresD support to minimize the performance degradation from using unaligned data."  C I recall that most VAX compilers did the data alignment for you bute? not in the Alpha. The big key is that the VAX provided hardwaretF support for alignment problems and the Alpha and other RISC processorsF do not. However, it is stated in the above source that Alpha compliersF do correct the most potential alignment problems and you can catch theD rest by adding the "/WARNING=ALIGNMENT" qualifier. It is possible to correct the alignment problems.N  D In summer of 1992, the NVAX chip claimed to be dramatically improved< performance over previous VAX microprocessors and results inE performance that approaches and may exceed the performance of popularhF industry RISC microprocessors. This was accomplished by using pipeline@ techniques traditionally associated with reduced instruction setE computer (RISC) CPU. There you have it, a VAX microprocessor that maye0 have had the raw performance of some RISC chips.  C The VAX processor was design with the idea of supporting programmedaC languages, which includes branching, where as the Alpha wasn't. The ; Alpha processor is a Load/Store RISC architecture. The RISCrE architecture uses the compiler to optimize the program languages thus ? branching. The raw power of the Alpha vs other chips was not as C stellar as one would think. The later versions of the Alpha systemsnD performances were due to compiler optimization of the Alpha hardwareE configuration. Why was the VAX replaced by the Alpha? It is easier toeD design RISC architecture and write a compiler to optimize the use ofE the hardware configuration than to design a CISC chip to do the same.   " Here is my two cents that subject.   Regards, Daryl Jones3     "Richard B. Gilbert" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rgilbert88@comcast.net">&lt;rgilbert88@comcast.net&gt;</a> wrote in message news:<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:uLednbnOh_U3GqzdRVn-jw@comcast.com">&lt;uLednbnOh_U3GqzdRVn-jw@comcast.com&gt;</a>...l   </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">Y     <pre wrap="">Yes, the VAX is byte addressable.  So, I believe, is the Alpha.  If you  G address your data as bytes there is no alignment problem!  If you want   larger units, align them.i  F The VAX architecture had a known penalty for misalignment.  The Alpha G just has a larger penalty.  I think most RISC processors have a larger kC penalty for misalignment than their CISC predecessors.  Should the oI engineers have slowed down the processor and made it more expensive (for 1H everybody) just to reduce the penalties for misalignment?  They elected C to have it lean, fast, and cheap (relatively).  For many years the w2 Alphas were the fastest iron that money could buy!  B The VMS Fortran compiler aligns the start of COMMON on a quadword G boundary.    Perhaps you meant to say that the programmer neglected to oD put the REAL*16 first, followed by the REAL*8, REAL|INTEGER*4, .....H I followed that rule (descending order by length) for twenty-four years G of programming in Fortran.   I haven't written any lately.  COMMON and  H Structures (in later versions of Fortran) are about the only places you J need to worry about alignment; the compiler takes care of everything else.     Tom Linden wrote:e  
     </pre>     <blockquote type="cite">.       <pre wrap=""> -----Original Message-----  From: Richard B. Gilbert [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:rgilbert88@comcast.net">mailto:rgilbert88@comcast.net</a>]-(  Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 4:05 PMf  To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com">Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com</a>&  Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?      Right on,  Antonio!  F  I first met the issue of boundary alignment ca. 1970 with the IBM 360F  Model 91.  It is just part of the way processors work.  The designersH  can make varying amounts of effort to "fix up" misaligned variables andG  can charge greater or lesser penalties for them.  I would imagine thatlH  there are substantial costs involved both in engineering and in silicon+  to get maximum fixup with minimum penalty.l  D  Why should the rest of us pay extra so that incompetent programmersE  don't have to think about alignment?  Especially since the compilers D  will do most of the work unless you insist on a structure of {byte,D  word, longword, quadword} with no filler.  There is no way that theF  compiler can align that!  For those not following this, the structureD  aligns beautifully if you make it {quadword, longword, word, byte};H  start it on a quadword boundary and everything falls neatly into place.  @ Yes, but you don't have the freedom to align data except for new
 applications.oJ I would venture to say that the bulk of FORTRAN employs COMMON that is notK aligned.  So what does the bright cpu engineer do to overcome the alignment  penalty,J he increases the memory bandwidth and inserts a barrel shifter.  What does the.C engineer without proper oversight do, he ignores the problem as note
 important.  I In PL/I you can give a structure the aligned attribute, but in FORTAN youu can't;< moreover a lot of I/O to structures presumes data is packed.  ; Last I looked, the VAX was a byte addressable architecture.f    Antonio Carlini wrote:o    &gt;p  &gt; O  &gt;&gt; Note that the Power PC has only a one tick penalty for unaligned data-  &gt;&gt; accessO  &gt;&gt; (which the Alpha engineers arrogantly refer to as misaligned access!)e  &gt;   &gt;:K  &gt; Misaligned is misaligned. Most VAX processors also have penalties foraG  &gt; misaligned accesses. The compilers hide these, where possible and@J  &gt; allowed, by padding structures. MACRO-32 programmers are expected toE  &gt; be able to count! Plenty of other processors do the same thing.v  &gt; 
  &gt; Antoniot  &gt;w  &gt; --  &gt;Q  &gt; ---------------l{  &gt; Antonio Carlini             <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:arcarlini@iee.org">arcarlini@iee.org</a>   &gt;     ---'  Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.r~  Checked by AVG anti-virus system (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.grisoft.com">http://www.grisoft.com</a>).A  Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004t   ---t& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.} Checked by AVG anti-virus system (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.grisoft.com">http://www.grisoft.com</a>).o@ Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004    a         </pre>     </blockquote>    </blockquote>o
 </blockquote>o </body>o </html>c  ( --------------020505040107010301070508--   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 03:48:16 GMTd0 From: "Stephen Eickhoff" <operagost@example.com>% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?l7 Message-ID: <4mWYb.17330$wD5.1878@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>   H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:0JgXIW0mcmbs@eisner.encompasserve.org...=J > In article <Pine.LNX.4.58-035.0402081426120.3977@unix44.andrew.cmu.edu>,- Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:   B >    On my DEC 3000 Model 600S there is no halt button.  ^P works.  7 Check again. It's on the back, below the AUI connector.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 04:00:40 GMTe0 From: "Stephen Eickhoff" <operagost@example.com>% Subject: Re: Why was VAX abandonned ?r7 Message-ID: <IxWYb.17333$wD5.6381@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>n  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messagel' news:87fzdcnspu.fsf@prep.synonet.com...h  F > There was a 730 I worked on. SLow as hell, but it HAD fallen severalG > thousand feet down a coal mine shaft into the water at the bottom, so?8 > we put up with it and marveled that it worked at all!!  I Perhaps it would have worked better if you had fished it out of the waterk ...    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:54:39 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)< Subject: will these third-party CD-ROM drives work with VMS?$ Message-ID: <c10qfe$u49$1@online.de>  H I've come across some third-party CD-ROM drives.  Any idea if they will 9 work with VMS?  (And if so, what jumper settings I need?)   B Cyberdrive 120S.  Only 4 jumpers, clearly labeled for SCSI-ID and  termination.  > Plextor PX-32TSi.  8 jumpers, clearly labeled for SCSI-ID and F termination, as with the Cyberdrive, but also parity, test, block and F eject.  I assume that "block" is to switch between 512 and 2048 bytes I per sector.  Should "parity" be jumpered?  What could "test" and "eject" d be for?s  @ Toshiba XM-5701B.  8 jumpers, like the Plextor, but not labeled.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:37:08 +0000 (UTC)cP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)@ Subject: Re: will these third-party CD-ROM drives work with VMS?$ Message-ID: <c110fk$3ai$1@online.de>  < In article <c10tqq$ur$1@titan.btinternet.com>, "Jeff Humber"# <matrix01@globalnet.co.uk> writes: b  M > I believe you need to configure the CD-ROM for 512 bytes to achieve OpenVMSm > compatibility.   Right.  E > Check out the link below, it mentions the Plextor & Toshiba models.t > - > http://narpes.com/aw/vax/dec-cdrom-list.txt,  8 Thanks.  The link appears to be not working now, though.  I I've gotten the Plextor and Toshiba to work.  Interestingly, they wanted t@ to have the termination jumper set.  OK, makes sense.  With the A cyberdrive, it showed up as 8*7 devices at the console prompt if ,I terminated.  When not terminated, however, it showed up as only 8.  I've nH seen this before, for example with an old EXABYTE tape drive.  It shows I up as 7 devices in VMS as well, but only on ALPHA, not on VAX.  However, dF even on ALPHA, MKA500:, say, works (while MKA501--MKA507 appear to be I bogus devices).  Within VMS, the cyberdrive just shows up as one device, hF SHOW DEVICE shows its name etc, but when trying to MOUNT something, I G get a message saying that I should mount the volume etc and everything e hangs.  > OK, 2 out of 3 ain't bad (actually 2 out of 4, since I have 2 
 Cyberdrives).c  H Looks like I'm out of look with the Cyberdrives, since there appears to B be no way to set them to 512.  (Interestingly, the other two work @ WITHOUT the "block" jumper set.  Looks like 512 is the default.)   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:34:22 +0000 (UTC)e6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)+ Subject: [CSWS] Installation Dependancies ?r1 Message-ID: <newscache$rt2bth$pgu1$1@news.sil.at>s  I I just saw that there is no installation dependancy of "CSWS_*" on "CSWS"  built into the PCSI kits.e  H eg. AFAIL CSWS_PERL doesn't run without CSWS and PERL installed. But the2 installation requirements are empty for CSWS_PERL.   Is this intended ?> Would it make sense to enforce the requirements into the kit ?   TIAn   -- r Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERe% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:38:30 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk: Subject: Re: [OT] Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full) Message-ID: <c10bf6$i9m$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>    In article <c1056q$cg1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> In article <c0vqgd$803$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:s >> h" >>>david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >>>nO >>>>You accuse others of trolling. In general those you accuse are users and/orr; >>>>supporters of VMS. You are neither a user or supporter.sP >>>>There are enough users and supporters of VMS who are able to provide balanceK >>>>on issues like IA64 without needing the support of someone whose agendabG >>>>with respect to a bright future for VMS must seem a little suspect.e >>>> >>> ? >>>What is the title of this thread ???????????????????????????k >>>b- >>>Solaris crashes itself when /tmp is full !t >>>t@ >>>So now you explain to me why I should not respond, or perhapsA >>>explain why was this posted to this thread in the first place.l >>>eC >>>Last time I looked comp.os.vms wasn't a Solaris admin newsgroup.o >>> 1 >>>Sorry but that really wasn't one of your best.  >>>e0 >>>I have snipped the rest of your post for your- >>>benefit, you can thank me at your leisure.o >>>e >> e >> iL >> As usual you snip to support your own position without regard to what was >> actually posted.a >> o >> As I posted a >> t >> e >> "K >> I know in this case you will argue that you were only defending Solaris.eR >> But why do you care ? This is a VMS newsgroup. In other newsgroups dedicated toE >> other systems you will find critism of Windows, Linux, Solaris etclN >> It's the nature of such newsgroups. Your presence almost certainly leads toP >> more posting of critisms of Solaris in this newsgroup than would otherwise be >> the case. >> "B >Chicken, egg. I am here because one Rob Young started an anti Sun= >tirade to deflect criticism from the then owners of OpenVMS.d >   2 On 24/11/2003 in an article "RE: IA64 TPC results"	 you said e  J "Rob as you know perfectly well I started posting to this group because of8 your attempts to FUD Sun over ebays reliability issues."      C Looking on Google the first post I can see from an Andrew Harrison e3 (SUNUK consultancy) in comp.os.vms is on 29/10/1997eM Searching on google for any mention of Ebay between 1-Jan-1996 and 1-DEC-1997o all I can find is :-  1 "Used DEC Equipment up for bid"   - 24th May 1996g   andd  # "RE: brokers for used VAX hardware"e    G The first posts between yourself and Rob on Ebays problems appear to ben in Jun 1999.    N That first post in 1997 seems to have been on the settlement between Intel andH DEC and you were responding to Terry Shannon. Rob doesn't appear to have" contributed to that thread at all.  N Also note by 10/09/1998  you had already made enough of a nuisance of yourself2 for Malcolm Dunnett to complain in a thread called  H "RE: Promoting SUN in innapropriate newsgroups (was EV6 Workstation...)"        C >Rob could apologise and agree to stop spouting the same kind of BS - >in the future but I very much doubt he will.g >rD >And I care because the anti Sun stuff was made up as is much of the? >anti UNIX and Linux stuff and so should you because much of iteC >demonstrates a total ignorance of the platforms and products being 
 >attacked. >   K Most of the people posting to this group have lots of experience of systemsh other than VMS.s  ? >Periodically Rob or some other chorister regurgitates the samei? >line having had it slapped down a few months or a year earlier = >often as has been admitted to deflect further criticism fromw >OpenVMS's current owner.  >x> >This BS falls into certain predictable and always unsupported >categories. >t >The OpenVMS TCO BSe >The OpenVMS CERT BS >The UNIX cluster BS >The AlphaServer performance BS  >The SPARC is dead BSd >The Slowaris BS	 >etc etc.e > > >So let me ask you a question, do Bob's tirades trying to link? >all Linux security issues with commercial UNIX platforms in an 6 >attempt to FUD UNIX from a security standpoint strike0 >a chord with you or do you disagree with them ? >   ; My posting record is available on google the same as yours.y      ? >Do Robs everything sucks except Itanium tirades strike a chorda< >with you or do you disagree with them ? (a road to damascus5 >type conversion from everything sucks except Alpha).l >e  9 As I said above My posting record is available on google.,    < >Did the same tirade in favour of Alpha also garner the same >reaction from you ? >m: >And if you disagreed with any of the rants above then why >didn't you say so ?     Check my posting record.     >s< >If you want me to stop posting to this group then you would9 >do better to direct your wrath at the more objectionable  >elements in this group. >o  N Some of them maybe misguided and some may even be schills for HP but they have" a reason for being in this group.     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex university     >Regards >Andrew Harrison >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:17:21 GMTa0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com>> Subject: Re: [TCPIP V5.4] Session Disconnects (and DISCONNECT)= Message-ID: <BedZb.67326$Wa.40040@news-server.bigpond.net.au>b  0 Without trying to hijack this thread too much...  H > Another suggestion I would make is some sort of hook to have a processL > notified whenever that node makes an outgoing call which fails to connect. (sot5 > that we can trigger fault isolation in the network.   L I see this as a separate system administration function.  Failure to connectH somewhere usually results in the user realising they specified the wrongK nodename, or a call to the network administrator because they checked theirlA typing and still can't connect.  In my mind, that seems more thanaH sufficient.  Why have a process automatically notified anytime a connectI fails?  It seems the process would have to include responses like:  "oopsa* you mistyped the remote nodename again..."  L If you want reachability confirmation to specific/important end-points, then5 a separate process to monitor that would be in order.n   Matt.a   -- m= -------------------------------------------------------------@ OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Hewlett-Packard Companya Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAt= -------------------------------------------------------------'    7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message@# news:40355DE7.AE7173FA@istop.com...s# > Surfer boy Matt Muggeridge wrote:k >tK > > > 3) Is there a chance that a lexical function (F$GETDVI comes to mind)c willI > > > (in the very near future) give me IP information (like the local IPa > > addresso >lH > > In the very near future... no.  If you can email me your requirement (theI > > more detail the better) it will be added to our requirements list andd# > > reviewed during the next cycle.a >@I > I would second this request. Being able to easily get information abouta whereo= > a BG device is coming from and going to would be very good.a >rK > When you're under attack, you want tools that get you the iformation ASAPm to > track hackers. >cH > Another suggestion I would make is some sort of hook to have a processL > notified whenever that node makes an outgoing call which fails to connect. (soo5 > that we can trigger fault isolation in the network.i   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.100 ************************