1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 26 Feb 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 113       Contents:8 %LICENSE-F-NOLICENSE despite manual register/enable/loadP Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEXP Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEXP Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEXP Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEXP Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEXP Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEX$ ADD/DEL node from queue manager role: Re: APL (was Re: Floating point arithmetic support in DCL) Re: Basic BACKUP Question  Re: Basic BACKUP Question  Re: Basic BACKUP Question , Re: Bruce Ellis book OpenVMS Troubleshooting Re: Custom timezone rules  Re: DCL help Re: DCL Numerical symbols 0 DECwindows, fonts, Mozilla, HTML, character sets Re: Disk Merging) Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette   Re: GD graphics lib on CSWS 1.3?% Re: HP (Colorado) T4000s for OpenVMS?  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon : Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: RE: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!, Re: J F on Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz Re: JBIG Printing / Re: KGPSA-C and EMC DS-24 M2 SAN Switch Problem  Re: Leap year. Re: Leap year.' Re: Mozilla, system resources and fonts ' Re: Mozilla, system resources and fonts  Re: ODBC drivers for MSSQL RE: ODBC drivers for MSSQLK Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study	... again! # Passing a socket to another process ' Re: Passing a socket to another process  PL/I Support/ Re: printing characters with codes > 127 in DCL / Re: printing characters with codes > 127 in DCL C Re: Problem with installing Security MUP on a VMS 7.3-1 workstation C Re: Problem with installing Security MUP on a VMS 7.3-1 workstation % Re: Securing SYSTEM from TCPIP access % RE: Securing SYSTEM from TCPIP access % Re: Securing SYSTEM from TCPIP access ' Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought ' Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought ' Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought ' Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought ' Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought - Re: Sun Expands Program Aimed at HP Customers  Re: system directory confusion@ Talon fax and DECvoice boards, audiotechs and talonqfax software" Re: Unable to paste at LSE prompts" Re: Unable to paste at LSE prompts" Re: Unable to paste at LSE prompts VMS license search/transfer? VMS license search/transfer?@ Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this? Re: WWW/DECnotes gateway?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 21:39:00 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>A Subject: %LICENSE-F-NOLICENSE despite manual register/enable/load 4 Message-ID: <403d0802$0$28441$636a15ce@news.free.fr>   Folks,  O I just installed my brand new hobbyist kit for VAX and am running in something  C strange (I already have an Alpha one since ages, which works fine):    1. the install went fine (7.3)  6 2. I did run the licenses.com file I got from Montagar   3. it did register the licenses   L 4. when I rebooted, after DECnet conf (I know, there was no need), I had no % licenses active for VMS, DECnet etc..   M 5. I noticed that, unlike the Alpha licenses.com procedure, which registers,  C then enables, then loads the keys, the VAX one just registers keys.   K So, fine, I did enable and load OPENVMS-HOBBYIST and DVNETEND and rebooted.    Still the same.  Where is my error?   Thanks,    D. (hobbyist newbie :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:50:43 -0500 2 From: "Chris Moore" <chrismichael000@sympatico.ca>Y Subject: Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEX 9 Message-ID: <4L8%b.8496$ee3.389355@news20.bellglobal.com>   J In my experience, the first node in to the cluster has been the first nodeI to CLUEXIT.  Documented or not, in the past year or so, I have 3 separate H incidents on 2 different clusters, (one VAX only, the other Alpha only),L that fit this mode.  Not the way I'd prefer it, but not worth juggling about" with votes to "fix" it in my case.   MCM   L (the foregoing is the opinion of the writer and does not represent the views% of his employer ........ hardly ever)   , "Roy Omond" <Roy@Omond.net> wrote in message. news:c1ie7r$bhb$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk... > Gentle colleagues, > A > despite working with VMS clusters for the last 100 or so years, ( > I'm stuck for an answer to this query: >  > Scenario:  > & > NODE1 <------ Ethernet ------> NODE2% >    +                              + % >    |                              | % >    |                              | % >    +----- Shared SCSI bus --------+  >                  | >                  |0 >                  | Disks including quorum disk > 2 > Both nodes have 1 vote, as does the quorum disk,1 > expected votes set to 3, quorum therefore is 2.  > & > Ethernet gets, ahem, "disconnected". > 1 > One of the nodes voluntarily exits the cluster.  > # > Question:  which one ?  And why ?  > > > Is it the last one to access the quorum disk that stays up ? >  >  > Roy Omond  > Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2004 23:48:32 -08007 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) Y Subject: Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEX = Message-ID: <8a646952.0402252348.6a694ceb@posting.google.com>    Dear Roy Omond:   B Years ago I ran across a problem where the cluster information wasB going over the ethernet and not over the CI connection. Therefore,F when the ethernet connection was lost there went the cluster until the= traffic restablished over the CI. Check to see if the cluster @ connection was lost over the SCSI or ethernet. There is a sysgenE parameter that controls which path is used. I don't recall the sysgen = parameter because it was over 30 years ago. Sorry about that.   
 Good Luck!   Regards, Daryl Jones   [ Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> wrote in message news:<c1ie7r$bhb$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>...  > Gentle colleagues, > A > despite working with VMS clusters for the last 100 or so years, ( > I'm stuck for an answer to this query: >  > Scenario:  > & > NODE1 <------ Ethernet ------> NODE2% >    +                              + % >    |                              | % >    |                              | % >    +----- Shared SCSI bus --------+  >                  | >                  |0 >                  | Disks including quorum disk > 2 > Both nodes have 1 vote, as does the quorum disk,1 > expected votes set to 3, quorum therefore is 2.  > & > Ethernet gets, ahem, "disconnected". > 1 > One of the nodes voluntarily exits the cluster.  > # > Question:  which one ?  And why ?  > > > Is it the last one to access the quorum disk that stays up ? >  >  > Roy Omond  > Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:46:01 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>Y Subject: Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEX 0 Message-ID: <403DCE69.108683CD@sture.homeip.net>   Chris Moore wrote: > L > In my experience, the first node in to the cluster has been the first nodeK > to CLUEXIT.  Documented or not, in the past year or so, I have 3 separate J > incidents on 2 different clusters, (one VAX only, the other Alpha only),N > that fit this mode.  Not the way I'd prefer it, but not worth juggling about$ > with votes to "fix" it in my case. >  > MCM  > N > (the foregoing is the opinion of the writer and does not represent the views' > of his employer ........ hardly ever)  > . > "Roy Omond" <Roy@Omond.net> wrote in message0 > news:c1ie7r$bhb$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk... > > Gentle colleagues, > > C > > despite working with VMS clusters for the last 100 or so years, * > > I'm stuck for an answer to this query: > > 
 > > Scenario:  > > ( > > NODE1 <------ Ethernet ------> NODE2' > >    +                              + ' > >    |                              | ' > >    |                              | ' > >    +----- Shared SCSI bus --------+  > >                  | > >                  |2 > >                  | Disks including quorum disk > > 4 > > Both nodes have 1 vote, as does the quorum disk,3 > > expected votes set to 3, quorum therefore is 2.  > > ( > > Ethernet gets, ahem, "disconnected". > > 3 > > One of the nodes voluntarily exits the cluster.  > > % > > Question:  which one ?  And why ?  > > @ > > Is it the last one to access the quorum disk that stays up ? > >  > > 
 > > Roy Omond  > > Blue Bubble Ltd.    L > In my experience, the first node in to the cluster has been the first nodeK > to CLUEXIT.  Documented or not, in the past year or so, I have 3 separate J > incidents on 2 different clusters, (one VAX only, the other Alpha only),N > that fit this mode.  Not the way I'd prefer it, but not worth juggling about$ > with votes to "fix" it in my case. >  > MCM    That rings a bell, so...   http://groups.google.ch/groups?q=cluexit+group:comp.os.vms&hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.os.vms&selm=3CF50D05.B2912A68%40127.0.0.1&rnum=1   0 where Nic Clews provides a detailed explanation.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:22:58 +0000 8 From: David McKenzie <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz>Y Subject: Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEX A Message-ID: <403dc86c$0$824$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>    Roy Omond wrote:   > Gentle colleagues, > A > despite working with VMS clusters for the last 100 or so years, ( > I'm stuck for an answer to this query: >  > Scenario:  > & > NODE1 <------ Ethernet ------> NODE2% >    +                              + % >    |                              | % >    |                              | % >    +----- Shared SCSI bus --------+  >                  | >                  |0 >                  | Disks including quorum disk > 2 > Both nodes have 1 vote, as does the quorum disk,1 > expected votes set to 3, quorum therefore is 2.  > & > Ethernet gets, ahem, "disconnected". > 1 > One of the nodes voluntarily exits the cluster.  > # > Question:  which one ?  And why ?  > > > Is it the last one to access the quorum disk that stays up ? >  >  > Roy Omond  > Blue Bubble Ltd.     To summarise other replies:   5 all nodes in a cluster must have a direct connection.   H as SCS only travels over the ethernet, not the shared scsi bus when the . ethernet is diconnected the cluster partitions  L the cluster tries to continue as decribed, by keeping the largest number of I votes, or in a tie, the largest set of nodes with the (equally ) largest   number of votes   3 once it decides that subset it clueexits the others    all in all expected behaviour          --   David McKenzie  remove rugby  - Web:            http://www.paradigm-shift.biz 7 Mail            David.McKenzie@paradigm-shift.rugby.biz    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:01:34 +0000 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> Y Subject: Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEX 8 Message-ID: <d3kr30hjavumrs4sl69p34aknakdchfh6a@4ax.com>  D On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:16:10 +0000, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> wrote:   >Gentle colleagues,  > @ >despite working with VMS clusters for the last 100 or so years,' >I'm stuck for an answer to this query:  > 
 >Scenario: > % >NODE1 <------ Ethernet ------> NODE2 $ >   +                              +$ >   |                              |$ >   |                              |$ >   +----- Shared SCSI bus --------+ >                 |  >                 | / >                 | Disks including quorum disk  > 1 >Both nodes have 1 vote, as does the quorum disk, 0 >expected votes set to 3, quorum therefore is 2. > % >Ethernet gets, ahem, "disconnected".  > 0 >One of the nodes voluntarily exits the cluster. > " >Question:  which one ?  And why ?  G My guess would be the first or last to join the cluster.  I assume each - member hangs onto enough information to know.   = >Is it the last one to access the quorum disk that stays up ?   I That does not sound very rigorous.  I don't like any suggestion of random K behaviour because it opens up the possibility that both members will decide J to die simultaneously.  Availability is supposed to be a cluster benefit !  L Both members will "see" the other ticking away at the quorum file.  However,K they have no proper cluster communication method, thus neither can instruct L the other to depart, so I would presume the design goal would be for one andK only one to voluntarily go.  That really only leaves membership time and/or  scssystemid.   --  $ Stop the world!  I want to get off!    Mail john rather than nospam...    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:31:01 +0000 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> Y Subject: Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEX : Message-ID: <c1kefd$1jqibc$1@ID-225674.news.uni-berlin.de>   Daryl Jones wrote:  D > Years ago I ran across a problem where the cluster information wasD > going over the ethernet and not over the CI connection. Therefore,H > when the ethernet connection was lost there went the cluster until the? > traffic restablished over the CI. Check to see if the cluster B > connection was lost over the SCSI or ethernet. There is a sysgenG > parameter that controls which path is used. I don't recall the sysgen ? > parameter because it was over 30 years ago. Sorry about that.   ? Cluster communications do *not* go over SCSI (an all too common  misapprehension).   B As stated before, the single and only path for SCS traffic (namely the Ethernet) was disconnected.   	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 08:56:28 -0600 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)- Subject: ADD/DEL node from queue manager role 1 Message-ID: <04022608562887@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   O Awhile back I asked about how to keep startup from subverting the current queue 5 manager role.  Here are the two procedures I created.    Use the *_ADD_* in startup.  Use the *_DEL_* in shutdown.     Watch the wraps!!!  K ***************************************************************************    $ TYPE QMAN_ADD_NODE_QMNGR.COM;  $!> $! procedure to add this node into existing queue manager role $! $! $ pid = f$getjpi("","PID")6 $ dts = f$cvtime() - "-" - "-" - " " - ":" - ":" - "." $! $!$ $ pipe show queue /manager /full | -.        search sys$pipe "Queue manager","/ON=("" /output=scm$work:_'pid'_'dts'.scr; $!, $ open qmfl scm$work:_'pid'_'dts'.scr; /read $! $!* $!---------------------------------------- $ qmfl_read: $ read qmfl data1 /err=qmfl_eof  $ read qmfl data2 /err=qmfl_eof # $ qm = f$element(2," ",data1) - "," / $ nodelist = f$element(1,"=",data2) - "(" - ")"  $! $!: $ if (f$locate(nodename,nodelist) .lt. f$length(nodelist)) $ thenK $   write sys$output "%QMAN-E-NODELIST; node already exist as queue manager 
 role /''qm'/"  $   goto qmfl_read $ endif  $! $!& $ nodelist = nodelist + ",''nodename'" $ start /queue -         /manager -         /name_of_manager='qm' -          /on=('nodelist')J $ write sys$output "%QMAN-I-ADD; node added to queue manager role /''qm'/" $ goto qmfl_read $! $!* $!---------------------------------------- $ qmfl_eof:  $ close qmfl $! $!  K *************************************************************************** K ***************************************************************************    $ TYPE QMAN_DEL_NODE_QMNGR.COM;  $!A $! procedure to remove this node from existing queue manager role  $! $! $ pid = f$getjpi("","PID")6 $ dts = f$cvtime() - "-" - "-" - " " - ":" - ":" - "." $! $!$ $ pipe show queue /manager /full | -/        search sys$pipe "Queue manager","/ON=("  " /output=scm$work:_'pid'_'dts'.scr; $!, $ open qmfl scm$work:_'pid'_'dts'.scr; /read $! $!* $!---------------------------------------- $ qmfl_read: $ read qmfl data1 /err=qmfl_eof  $ read qmfl data2 /err=qmfl_eof # $ qm = f$element(2," ",data1) - "," / $ nodelist = f$element(1,"=",data2) - "(" - ")"  $! $!: $ if (f$locate(nodename,nodelist) .ge. f$length(nodelist)) $ thenL $   write sys$output "%QMAN-E-NODELIST; node does not exist as queue manager
 role /''qm'/"  $   goto qmfl_read $ endif  $! $!, $ nodelist = "*" + nodelist - nodename + "*"/ $ nodelist = nodelist - "*," - ",*" - "*" - "*"  $ if (nodelist .eqs. "") $ then> $   write sys$output "%QMAN-E-NODELIST; null nodelist /''qm'/" $   goto qmfl_read $ endif  $! $ start /queue -         /manager -         /name_of_manager='qm' -          /on=('nodelist')N $ write sys$output "%QMAN-I-DEL; node deleted from queue manager role /''qm'/" $ goto qmfl_read $! $!* $!---------------------------------------- $ qmfl_eof:  $ close qmfl $! $!  K ***************************************************************************      J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:51:14 -0500 , From: David Butenhof <David.Butenhof@hp.com>C Subject: Re: APL (was Re: Floating point arithmetic support in DCL) * Message-ID: <403e1625@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   John Smith wrote:   A >> And as for the 5 lines APL to 500 lines of Cobol, you couldn't = >> have been trying very hard.  More like 1.66 lines to 500 !  > E > That's about right - but you forgot about the 498 lines of comments J > explaining what you did in the 2 lines of code ;-)  if you ever even got% > around to writing in-line comments.   M I had a friend who took an APL course way back in college; and the professor  C took off points for comments, on the basis that APL was inherently  D self-documenting, making comments at best confusing and unnecessary.  H Then again, I once attended an ACM conference keynote by Dan McCracken, E where he answered a question about the future of popular programming  L languages, including BASIC and APL, with an amusing answer that started off A with "first of all, I have my doubts that BASIC is a programming  I language... and APL is obviously a religion..." This is clearly true and  J relevant, because the common characteristic of all religions is that they D cannot be discussed rationally or objectively: you're either a true - believer, or you're not, and that's that. ;-)    --  C /--------------------[ David.Butenhof@hp.com ]--------------------\ C | Hewlett-Packard Company       Tru64 UNIX & VMS Thread Architect | C |     My book: http://www.awl.com/cseng/titles/0-201-63392-2/     | C \----[ http://homepage.mac.com/dbutenhof/Threads/Threads.html ]---/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:04:41 GMT ' From: Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> " Subject: Re: Basic BACKUP Question1 Message-ID: <Htnunw.BwC@sysadm.physics.uiowa.edu>   . never mind... (said in a small mousy voice) :)  
 Color me red!   M It turns out (as suggested to check by some great help from this group!) that N the "stuff" I was seeing in the restored files was indeed random garbage.  TheN headers with the file size and ID were being used to apparently show me randomO junk.  The first files we looked at with the owner were of course binary files, O so DUMP presented some junk that he assumed was valid and I made the mistake of  not not questioning that...   	 Thanks!!!  Rick   Rick Dyson wrote:    > But note what I reported!!!! > ? > THE DATA WAS BACKED UP AND DID GET RESTORED TO A NEW DISK!     > J > I too thought that the files would be lost (except for DIR entries), butI > I had to walk away from the owner eating my words about the files would % > be empty.  They had all their data!  > , > Does /Image negate the action of NoBackup?  - > Kenneth.Robinson@VerizonWireless.com wrote:  > @ >>> $ Backup/Image/Ignore=Interlock DKA100: MKA400:blah.bck/Save >>> J >>> What happens to files on DKA100 that are marked NOBACKUP for the above >>> command? >>> 3 >>> If it matters: VAX/OpenVMS and BACKUP are v6.2.  >>> G >>> My log files report the file is not backed up because it was marked 
 >>> NOBACKUP.  >>> J >>> %BACKUP-I-NOBACKUP, DKA100:[STUFF.OLD]JUNK.DAT;1 data not copied, file >>> marked NOBACKUP  >> >> >>2 >> It did what the message said "Data not copied". >>J >> The header is backed up so you can recreate the file with it's originalL >> size, owner, etc., but the data is not backed up. You are not wasting anyG >> tape, unless you count the small amount needed to backup the header.  >> >> Ken Robinson    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2004 23:38:18 -08007 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) " Subject: Re: Basic BACKUP Question= Message-ID: <8a646952.0402252338.53995138@posting.google.com>    Dear Rick Dyson:  F The other responses have explained what happens when you marked a fileB with "/NOBACKUP". I discovered this little problem with large pageC files. What I did was to mark the directory that contained the page C file and the page file to be "/NOBACKUP". Again as stated before me C the directory appeared to backup via marker but not the page files.    Regards, Daryl Jones      ` Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> wrote in message news:<Htnr1I.Lro@sysadm.physics.uiowa.edu>...> > $ Backup/Image/Ignore=Interlock DKA100: MKA400:blah.bck/Save > Q > What happens to files on DKA100 that are marked NOBACKUP for the above command?  > 1 > If it matters: VAX/OpenVMS and BACKUP are v6.2.  > O > My log files report the file is not backed up because it was marked NOBACKUP.  > P > %BACKUP-I-NOBACKUP, DKA100:[STUFF.OLD]JUNK.DAT;1 data not copied, file marked 
 > NOBACKUP > J > But a recent restore of the saveset to another disk (where I expected toL > have lost the files) showed they were actually on the backup saveset, much > to my surprise!  > O > I really don't want the files dumped to tape, as they don't matter.  In fact, M > sometimes this is a VMS disk with page, swap & dump files that I don't want  > to them wasting tape!  > N > What am I missing?  Does "/Image" ignore the NOBACKUP flag BUT still reports > that it honors it? > 	 > Thanks,  > Rick   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:24:24 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>" Subject: Re: Basic BACKUP Question0 Message-ID: <403DE578.167A6CFC@sture.homeip.net>   John Laird wrote:    <snip>   >  > --4 > Press ENTER once to quit or twice to save changes. >      A great sig. LOL!    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:55:45 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> 5 Subject: Re: Bruce Ellis book OpenVMS Troubleshooting 0 Message-ID: <BYCdnS611qFzqKDdRVn-jA@comcast.com>  F If we advertise, who will deliver on our commitments?   We sure can't  count on HP!   John Smith wrote:   ! >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  >    > ? >>In article <3a65a5c8.0402240934.186115e3@posting.google.com>, 4 >>keith.cayemberg@conti.de (Keith Cayemberg) writes: >>     >>
 >>>Hi Jay, >>> : >>>I'm quite certain I saw the "OpenVMS Troubleshoting" by8 >>>Bruce Ellis on the Digital Press Web Site in December4 >>>with an updated release date for the end of 2004.	 >>>        >>> D >>VMS is so trouble free that there's very little to fill a book! ;) >>     >> >  > G >Somebody ought to write a abook about the trouble VMS has had with the E >managements (if you can dare to call them that) its had steering its 	 >success.  > F >In fact, why don't we start a VMS Users For VMS Advertising Fund - weM >contribute money to a trust and use the money collected to advertise VMS the & >way *we* see fit?  Anyone interested? >  >  >    >    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 04 05:19:21 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com " Subject: Re: Custom timezone rules( Message-ID: <2$JnnGO6ZMnc@cpva.saic.com>  1 In article <%Z1%b.1055$z47.544@news.cpqcorp.net>, 6  hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes:J > In article <++Z4aLoeO7Rd@cpva.saic.com>, mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com writes:% >>Alpha VMS 7.3 (probably 7.anything)  >>G >>I've compiled a set of timezone rules for one of my systems using the > >>ZIC compiler and located the resultant file in the directory >>/ >>	SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.SYS$ZONEINFO.USER]  > , > I think you need to copy/move  the file to > 8 >         SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.SYS$ZONEINFO.SYSTEM]7 >                                                ^^^^^^ + > Then run SYS$MANGER:UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM.   9 > Your rule should show up (the menu shows file names).    > H > (For reasons that aren't clear, SYS$MANGER:UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM seems toM > intentionally ignore rule files in .USER.  I will look into changing this.)  >   G Thanks... I was just trying to determine what the intent was. It seemed F to me that the presence of a [.USER] directory suggested that I shouldF store my files there so that some future upgrade wouldn't remove them.E However, storing them there resulted in them being ignored - at least H by some of the startup and configuration procedures. I think that you'llG need to modify SYS$COMMON:[SYS$STARTUP]VMS$INITIAL-050_LIB.COM as well.    - Jim    ------------------------------   Date: 25 Feb 2004 16:14:34 GMT* From: Terry Aardema <taardema@nrcan.gc.ca> Subject: Re: DCL help < Message-ID: <Xns949A5E05F1176taardemanrcangcca@132.156.36.9>  ! briggs@encompasserve.org wrote in , news:$lUGcFwWadbH@eisner.encompasserve.org:   ? > In article <7e127df6.0402242022.55f6734b@posting.google.com>, ' > thick_guy_9@yahoo.com (AMIT) writes:   >> Hi 9 >> I have some difficulty understanding dir/since/backup.  >>  E >> I have some files that have been backed up and some that have not.  >>  8 >> How do I select those that have been backed up? using >> dir/since/backup?   > H > $ DIR /BACKUP /SINCE=17-NOV-1858     ! Or any other date significantlyB >       or      /SINCE=01-JAN-1900     ! before you ran your first >       backup   > H > Neither /BACKUP/SINCE= nor /BACKUP/BEFORE= will ever select files thatE > have no backup date recorded.  So all you have to do is pick a date    Yes and no; see below.  E > far enough in the past that you don't miss any flies that do have a  > backup date recorded.  >  >      John Briggs >   2 From a "HELP BACKUP_COMMAND /BACKUP" on VMS 7.3-1:  F     "When you use /BACKUP with /BEFORE, files with a BACKUP date priorE      to the specified date or time are selected. Files with no BACKUP E      date (that is, /RECORD was not specified when the file was saved "      or copied) are also selected.  E      When you use /BACKUP with /SINCE, files with a BACKUP date equal D      to or later than the specified date or time are selected. FilesE      with no BACKUP date (that is, /RECORD was not specified when the 1      file was saved or copied) are not selected."     A So a BACKUP/SINCE/BACKUP won't catch files without a BACKUP date  E recorded, but BACKUP/BEFORE/BACKUP will (at least according to HELP).   H Testing with a newly CREATEd file (and therefore one with no BACKUP date< recorded) shows that the HELP is correct at least as far as ! BACKUP/SINCE/BACKUP is concerned.   I However, I just tried a BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP (note the /SINCE=BACKUP vice  G /SINCE/BACKUP) on the same file I had just created; the BACKUP command  G was quite happy to backup this file and I was able to extract the file  E from the resultant saveset and verify that it was identical with the  	 original.    Syntax matters.   
 Terry Aardema  Systems and Network Manager I Natural Resources Canada/Canadian Forest Service/Northern Forestry Centre  #include <disclaimer.h>    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 07:39:09 -0800- From: phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) " Subject: Re: DCL Numerical symbols= Message-ID: <5ee1d1b7.0402260739.7b0411c6@posting.google.com>   l Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote in message news:<c1ho4l$6mn$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>... > Don Sykes wrote: > > Also when I do a > > $ ls | grep ".tmp"
 > > I get:J > > %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling	 > >  \LS\  > >  > > What's wrong?  > G > Obviously you've not installed lsedit, the language sensitive editor. 6 > You've not got the rest of the command right either. > 
 > ;) Chris  E If you look for it there is a UNixR (UNR) version for VMS that can be C inwstalled that will provide all the functionality of Unix on a VMS D system.  What they did was port Unix ontop of VMS and "dumb it down"@ to allow Unix users the ability to operate it on top of VMS.  It5 includes all the normal Unix like commands as normal.    Phil   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:59:57 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)9 Subject: DECwindows, fonts, Mozilla, HTML, character sets $ Message-ID: <c1irbd$dja$1@online.de>  F I still haven't solved my font problems completely, but I've narrowed D the question down to the following; an answer to this might help me  solve my problems.  % If I view a web page, something like    1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">  <HTML> <HEAD>H <Meta Http-Equiv="Content-Type" Content="text/html; Charset=iso-8859-2"> <TITLE>bla bla bla</TITLE> </HEAD>  <BODY>   <H1> jiwejiw  </H1>    fjeifj  # fjweij wf <EM>fjweijf</EM> jweijfwe   	 <ADDRESS>  feiwoj jfewipj  fejwpi   </BODY>  </HTML>   C that is, NO COMMANDS WHICH EXPLICITLY REFERENCE FONT NAMES, SIZES,  H SHAPES ETC (i.e. these are only specified a) indirectly and b) in terms I of relative sizes), what is the "chain of events" which determines which  G font (somewhere in SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.SYSFONT...] is used for a   given piece of text?  @ My goal is to have enough fonts with enough sizes and widths forE iso-8859-x, where x is 1, 2 or 5, so that I don't see any difference  H between fonts supplied with the system and ones I've later added myself.I (In other words, for example if I use iso-8859-5 (Cyrillic), SOME of the  C characters show up too small and/or too thin, since I am either a)  F missing the corresponding fonts or b) they can't be found.)  However, G before I understand the process involved, I can't figure out if I have  2 the proper fonts and, if so, if they can be found.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:00:45 GMT ( From: "konabear" <maurert@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: Disk Merging ? Message-ID: <h_m%b.5959$t16.4135842@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>   D Also I recommend Availability Manager.  If which the agent/collectorL installed and configured on OpenVMS and the Data Analysis piece installed onJ a Windows box, or standalone OpenVMS box, then you'd have been able to seeL if quorum had been lost, and if so fixed quorum on one of the nodes.  Fixing2 it on both might've created a partitioned cluster.   Todd= "Dave Baxter" <dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com> wrote in message 7 news:a3c44af1.0402231445.41c8014b@posting.google.com... F > I am running OVMS Version 7.3-1 on a 2-node cluster of 4-way ES40's.G >  Sadly, yesterday I had an event which I haven't figured out yet, but  > which hung both of my nodes.< > o    Pinging the nodes said that the NICs were responding.H > o    There was no response from the node to login requests via Telnet,- > Decnet   or LAT.  (Not even a SYS$ANNOUNCE) B > o    Even sessions which were still connected would not respond. > E >      It looked a lot like a CLUSTER QUORUM hang, however neither of B > the nodes had crashed and the interconnect (dual private GigabitF > Ethernet segments) showed link lights, but almost no activity.    InE > order to release the hang, I was forced to manually crash the nodes B > and bring them back up.   They both came back fine.    Because I5 > manually crashed the systems, I have no Crash Dumpsh > C > (Q1.  Can anyone remind me what the console command is to force ae! > Memory Dump on these systems??)LF > (Q2.  I realize that this isn't much information, but has anyone any, > idea what could cause this kind of hang??) >dF >      The second issue is that all of my shadowsets are merging.    IF > have two nodes, only running at ~40%, however I only have two merges8 > actually executing, the rest are waiting at 0% merged. >e1 > (Q3.  Is there any way I can control merging??) : > (Q4.  Is it possible to get this going on more drives??)7 > (Q5.  Are there SYSGEN parameters I should look at??)  > E >      The third issue is that I am having trouble reading the Systeme > Error Log.; > I know that DECevvent doesn't work.   Analyze/Error givesh >c > SYSMGR>> analyze/errF > Error Log Report Generator                                   VersionH > V7.2      %ERF-F-CEHFND, New header format found. Install DECevent and > run conversion utility.  > ? > This doesn't help.     I installed Compaq Analyze and got the  > followinge >o, > SYSMGR>> ca v /ana sys$errorlog:errlog.sysE > ___.RECOVERED FROM ERROR on February 23, 2004 3:37:02 PM MST (0.717o > sec elapsed)E >         There was a problem parsing the log in EvtReader::parseLog:X" >      Current Thread[main,5,main]L >      EXCEPTION com.compaq.svctools.ca.services.eventreaders.EvtCorruption:G >      EvtReader.fillDescriptor:  premature End-of-File, binary file ise > probably corrupt.n >w% > plus a load more crap, ending with;i >l > Error executing command:E >  com.compaq.svctools.desta.core.DESTAException: There was a problem ) > parsing the log in EvtReader::parseLog: = > com.compaq.svctools.ca.services.eventreaders.EvtCorruption:lB > EvtReader.fillDescriptor:  premature End-of-File, binary file is > probably corrupt.  >S@ > Q6.   Does this mean I am not going to be able to read the oldA > ERRLOG.SYS file?, or does it just need converting in some way??e >e > Help >  > Dave.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:11:02 -0500s* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>2 Subject: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette) Message-ID: <403D1D6C.1A2D08D1@istop.com>I  J OK, sorry to be blunt, but it seems that any HP employees in the VMS groupL need some education on nettiquette. I have , and continue to be surprised toJ see people who appear to be fairly well experienced and fairly senior make= such mistakes when it comes to using the internet for emails.e  J Would it be possible to sensitize all VMS-related employees to follow some! simple rules when sending emails:     N 1- NEVER EVER quote the entire contents of a message at the bottom, especiallyL if that message contained huge attachements sent to help debug a problem. WeK don't all run 64 CPU marvels and opening up that email in decw mail takes ac lot of time.  H 2- The standard nettiquette is to quote at the top and post your messageN below. This motivates the person to cut unnecessary text and just keep it to aL minimum. When they put the quote at the bottom, they don't realise how big aN boatload of text they are unnecessarily appending and don't bother cutting it.  H 3-If they refuse to top post, why not configure their mail client to notM bother including the original text ? I could never see the point of including.9 contents of previous messages at the bottom of a message./  J 4-Why is it so difficult for people to configure their mail clients NOT toK send HTML ? There are some that insisi on sending 2 copies, one in text andiJ the other in HTML, but becasue of the multipart nature, even the enxt gets somewhat encoded.n  H Why is it so difficult for people whom we have a lot of respect for (VMS( engineers) to know the above concepts ?     L Sorry for the rant, but it is always a big pain to receive such messages and( having to go through hoops to read them.  J I think that VMS engineers should be forced to send a copy of each messageM they send from their wintel crap box to their VMS mailbox. Maybe they'd learnn1 why nettiquette rules were written to begin with.o  N Hint: you're not supporting wintel customers, you're supporting VMS customers.I Microsoft may wish to ignore nettiquette, but the rest of the world still0
 abides by it.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:34:38 +0100w* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette0 Message-ID: <403DE7DE.263D5F85@sture.homeip.net>   JF Mezei wrote:r >   eL > 4-Why is it so difficult for people to configure their mail clients NOT toM > send HTML ? There are some that insisi on sending 2 copies, one in text andhL > the other in HTML, but becasue of the multipart nature, even the enxt gets > somewhat encoded.t >   H Some corporate environments have their PCs locked down so that you can't& change settings. It's a pain but true.  G And then Exchange can muck things up too. Since we moved to that a yeara orD two ago, I could never send a url to a VMS system without it getting munged.p  C And there's another problem with Outlook. Last year I was regularlyc
 exchangingB mails with an Outlook user at another company. Mine were of course alwaysH sent in text, but after 2 or 3 replies to each other, Outlook at one end orG the other would decide it wanted to do bottom quoting, and wouldn't letu me rearrange it as I wished.  H The _only_ workaround I found for that was to copy/paste the entire text into& Notepad, then back into a _new_ email.   -- s
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 08:09:46 -0600c( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette/ Message-ID: <00A2DFC8.5C7B0113.1@tachysoft.com>e   >From: healyzh@aracnet.com >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms7 >Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette5 >Date: 26 Feb 2004 05:50:23 GMTo >.5 >Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@flying-disk.com> wrote:RG >> on VMS systems.   It's not that they don't know what they are doing, D >> they actively don't *want* to change.   They claim that there areI >> only one or two people using VMS mail, so we are not worth the effort.i2 >> It's our fault that we are not running Windows. >eK ><sigh> Idiots!  One of the main uses of my VMS system is email.  I use thetC >tty VMS Mail client daily, and the DECwindows client occasionally.i >hG >There is no way in H*** I'm doing email on Windows if I don't have to.gF >Unfortuantly at work I'm forced to use Outlook occasionally, and only@ >because people insist on sending Word attachments and the like.  I The mime utility included starting with 7.3 works well enough to pull outnJ attachments when people insist on sending them.  I find it most useful forI image files, which can be displayed directly on the vms system with xv or K mozilla.  Admittedly, the fucking word documents have to then be ftped to a-> billybox for viewing.  Fortunately, I don't get many of those.   Wayne|O ===============================================================================-N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   sO ===============================================================================rB Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?", 	Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 08:38:50 -0700e+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>m6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette' Message-ID: <403E130A.5010902@MMaz.com>0   healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:  5 >Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@flying-disk.com> wrote:u >  d > F >>on VMS systems.   It's not that they don't know what they are doing,C >>they actively don't *want* to change.   They claim that there are H >>only one or two people using VMS mail, so we are not worth the effort.1 >>It's our fault that we are not running Windows.r >>     >> >tK ><sigh> Idiots!  One of the main uses of my VMS system is email.  I use thetC >tty VMS Mail client daily, and the DECwindows client occasionally.  >h >  s > D We are a media rich society and to expect people, be they inside or H outside your company, customer, or vendor base to stay with paper-tape, B teletypes, or punch cards because you don't feel e-mail should be G anything other than vanilla ASCII text, is a hopeless battle that will  @ only continue to frustrate yourself, and alienate everyone else # attempting to communicate with you.   G >There is no way in H*** I'm doing email on Windows if I don't have to.- >  D > I You don't have to run a client on Windows, you can use MAC, Linux, Unix,  C hell, fire up an old copy of DEC Windows on a VS2000 or if you are dI really bold, VWS and write your own GUI client, but rending MIME content  H is beyond the ability of VMS Mail on a VT terminal, and MIME content in  e-mail is not going away...,     Barryt   -- s  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        t   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 09:06:39 -0800- From: phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer)h6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette= Message-ID: <5ee1d1b7.0402260906.6cf40afd@posting.google.com>e  b Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message news:<403DE7DE.263D5F85@sture.homeip.net>... > JF Mezei wrote:w > >  >  e    F The reason I don't mind seeing the entire text of a message is so thatA I can remember the "conversation" that occurred.  Not everyone isuD young with good memories.  So when someone references something thatD was said previously in the "conversation" a person could go back andD look at what is referenced and see what was said and in what context it was said in.h  D And when I look at some of the posts on newsgroups, I can understandF why some people would include the entire "conversation" in a message. 9 Take this one for example.  It is really obvious from the$F confversation that some people are extremely Windows centric and wouldB rather do everything on windows and forget the rest of the world. B They talk about how "Windows is great for email and outlook is the best email reader."O  7 At least that is what I remember of the conversation...    PT   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:03:46 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>S6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquetteI Message-ID: <SFp%b.71988$RTW1.33848@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>v   R. D. Davis wrote: > In articleE > <E0p%b.71064$RTW1.7358@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John,! > Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:f >>> >> Doing what you suggest is, in some shops, a firing offence. >?F > Well, who in their right mind can work in such miserable restrictiveF > places, that are so opposed to creativity, anyway?  Besides, most ofH > those places in the US are going to end up outsourcing their employees@ > anyway, so why make things any easier for the SOBs before they > outsource your jobs?  G You might not get a severance payment if they can your ass 'for cause'.,   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:19:47 -0000n, From: rdd@rhiannon.rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette0 Message-ID: <103se63917l9i94@corp.supernews.com>  2 In article <Zuq%b.4566$OH4.3826@fe2.texas.rr.com>,. 	LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes:  J > No, they'll force the employee to train the foreign replacement in orderC > to collect severance pay, which is known as "knowledge transfer".d  ? Heh, in such cases, it's imperative that one trains the foreign E replacent in the most appropriate manner possible, including teachinglF the foreign replacement some nonsense words, inappropriate manners andC offensive "customs"... like, "in this company, one sticks out one'siF tongue, makes a raspberry sound, rolls one's eyes and flaps one's armsC when entering the personnel department for the first time", or your-F supervisor's nickname is "idjit boy", or "the receptionist will do youC special favors if you reach out and fondle her when you walk past."e  A And... teach them things like: "every fortnight, that's every two ? weeks, it's imperative that you log into the SYSTEM account andeC dismount all of the disks at 10:15AM, but only after you run a verytF special program named "klunk".  If it runs successfully, you'll noticeD a lot of disk activity and hear a lot of commotion in the accounting@ department, but don't worry about that, they always get a little' annoyed at routine system maintenance."n   -- fN Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: M All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & oO rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such I http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 05:53:16 -0800! From: brfraley@hotmail.com (Brad)e) Subject: Re: GD graphics lib on CSWS 1.3?s= Message-ID: <3c5b1c92.0402260553.612198a6@posting.google.com>   i Witchy <news@sruasonidyranib.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3lro309rqaflmbtub6ceau3k0mshjn72g5@4ax.com>...iG > On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:20:02 GMT, "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com>  > wrote: > 
 > >Witchy, > >-" > >I'm glad you're up and running. > >:N > >If you're looking for PHP header files, send me an e-mail. We'll be postingH > >up-to-date source code kits in the near future, but I can get you the > >headers you need. > >1 >  > Thanks Rick, on its way :) Witchy,e  C I am also trying to get GD working under PHP on OpenVMS Apache. AnyaF info/problems you have or solve would be appreciated. I will also keep you posted on my efforts.    Brad   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:51:56 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis). Subject: Re: HP (Colorado) T4000s for OpenVMS?. Message-ID: <c1lf8c$c7a$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  } "Chris" <moore_mc@hotmail.com> writes in article <aeq%b.2458$mx4.51395@nnrp1.uunet.ca> dated Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:42:29 -0500: B >I have had an HP Surestore T4 (aka Colorado T4000s) come in to myL >possession, and it looks like it would suit my backup needs fairly well forM >an aging Alpha 400 with two 2 Gb drives.  VMS seems to recognize it for what G >it is, but can't address it, see below.  Can't find any mention of VMSrJ >support for the drive on the website, so I don't know if it's faulty, tooH >old firmware rev, or just plain not usable under VMS.  Any suggestions? >u$ >HOBBES::CMOORE $ sh dev/full mka600 >aH >Magtape HOBBES$MKA600:, device type HP T4000s, is online, file-oriented >device,I >available to cluster, error logging is enabled, device supports fastskip*	 >per_io).* >*F >Error count              0        Operations completed             25F >Owner process           ""        Owner UIC                  [SYSTEM]F >Owner process ID  00000000        Dev Prot        S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,WF >Reference count          0        Default buffer size            2048F >Density            default        Format                    Normal-11A >Volume status: no-unload on dismount, position lost, odd parity.!4                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^G "position lost" is a bad sign.  It could mean bad tape, dirty heads, ormK broken drive.  Obviously the reasonable actions here are to clean the heads  and try a brand new tape.e  * >HOBBES::CMOORE $ init hobbes$mka600: test >h" >%INIT-F-DRVERR, fatal drive error  5 This is expected if the drive is losing its position./  H In general, generic SCSI tape drives do work under VMS.  I have used 8mm	 before.  r  L >The preceding opinions are those of the writer, and don't seem to represent >those of his employer (yet)   Just call me a trendsetter!e  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:57:41 +0000*O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>*& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon/ Message-ID: <c1ik69$74$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>f   Rob Young wrote:p > In article <7500353b.0402250435.20b983f1@posting.google.com>, mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon) writes: >  >>And the winner is #1.u4 >>http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/35799.html >> >  > < > 	At first, I thought what you wrote below was a quote from > 	the article...  >  > G >>HP has introduced Opteron servers and tells that it wont dent ItaniumeC >>sales. Opterons are available with Linux and later on on Windows."+ >>Itanium is dedicated to high end only....d >  > ; > 	I guess the low voltage versions of Itanium don't count?l > 1 > 	Deerfield (low voltage McKinley) for instance?- >   5 No because as you know perfectly well the LV Itaniums 5 are rather slower than cheaper faster x86 and Opteron" based systems.   > 9 >>In practice that means systems from 64 CPU's upwards...  >> >  >  > 	Ah... you wish. > K > 	How many Itaniums are currently under development or nearing completion?d > 	Not counting Madison 9M?e >  > 	LV = low voltage  > 
 > 	Fanwood
 > 	LV Fanwood  > 	Montecito
 > 	Millingtonr > 	LV Millington
 > 	Tukwila- > 	Dimona        (another multi-core Itanium)  > 	q& > 	Seven or so ... according to Intel. >   8 Does it matter ? What Itanium has proved conclusively is< that having the biggest development budget in microprocessor" history does not guarantee sucess.   Regardst Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:20:02 -0500-* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon) Message-ID: <403D0371.BE3E5EDD@istop.com>p   > >>And the winner is #1.L6 > >>http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/35799.html  J While it is obvious that in this newsgroup. IA64 doesn't get much positiveM "press", except for the couple of apoligists, I think that what is telling istX that the media also tends to share the same opinions of IA64's future (or lack thereof).  : I don't recall Alpha getting so much bad press.  Alpha wasL respected/acknowledged by the press for its technical superiority, and sinceN Digital hadn't bragged about Alpha taking over the world, there was no failure$ of Alpha becoming industry standard.  K But for IA64, it seems that Intel/HP are stuck with 2 problems: the chip istN not see as technically superior, seen more and lagging (images of Merced stillM vivid). And as a double whammy, Intel and HP had spent years talking up IA64, N predicting it would become industry standard, commodity etc. And now, they areR falling flat on their face and the press is having an easy time talking down IA64.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:53:29 +0000lO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>rC Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!-/ Message-ID: <c1ijud$5d$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>-   Dirk Munk wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >> Robert Klute wrote: >>I >>> On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:19:36 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyo2 >>> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >>>-K >>> I didn't say that 32bit systems haven't been popular.  In the 1 - 4 wayi@ >>> space they dominate the market, showing that a most businessL >>> applications can be solved cost effectively with such systems.  I merelyJ >>> said that the limited address space puts a cap on how many  processors0 >>> can be effectively used in a single system.  >> >> >>A >> But since this point is demonstrably untrue it seems pointlesse >> to have made it.l >>D >> Solaris 2.6 is a 32bit OS that does not stop it making use of the> >> 64 CPU's in a Sun E10000, Dynix was a 32bit OS that did not8 >> stop it using the 64 CPU's in the Sequent NUMA-Q box. >  > E > The good old PDP 11/70 had 22 bit of memory/address space. However  H > RSX11M applications can only address 16 bits. You can run many 16 bit I > applications in that 22 bit address space. (RSX11M+ is the predecessor tE > of VMS, the PDP11 is the predecessor of the VAX. Both can still be wC > bought). More then 30 years ago Digital demonstrated that it was    > possible to do these 'tricks'. >  >  >>F >> 3.75 GB for a single process may be a problem for some applicationsF >> it is not for most. As an example the majority of Oracle apps apartH >> from the DBMS are 32bit because they don't benefit from having 64bit  >> support.e >>I >> The apparent need for all applications and all systems to be 64bit was H >> a marketing campaign of Digitals, it was mostly rubbish. As the basisH >> of a Digital marketing campaign it had to be dubious though obviouslyB >> from this conversation some of the rubbish seems to have stuck. >  > F > Now you're talking rubbish. Digital had the vision that disk access J > speed would become a big problem for fast database access. So they said 5 > let's move large parts of the database into memory.u > C Which could only apparently be accomplished by having 64bit supportn
 in the OS.  B Sadly at the time the only Digital platform that supported largishC amounts of memory was the 8400 and at the time you only got largish:@ amounts of memory >8GB by trading CPU's and I/O slots for memoryC resulting in a system that lacked CPU and I/O capacity thus provinge@ that caching a DBMS in memory was a good thing (at least for theB config you ended up with because it had negligable I/O bandwidth).  3 In other words the claims were in practice rubbish.a  E >  From every day experience I know that most programmers and system tK > managers haven't got a clue about disk access. Disks have become about 4  G > times faster the last 25 years (random IO), cpu's 1000(?), 10,000(?) nK > times faster. Memory is about a 100 times cheaper. And now the disks are 0E > doubling in size about every year, and customers still want to buy mK > storage based on the size they need, not on the IO they need, since they BH > haven't got a clue about IO either. And try to tell these people that 5 > they have to stuff their system full of memory.....  > K > And there we are wondering why that beautifull new system is so sloooow.  D > Sun systems have the same problem I can assure you. By the way, I I > studied the specs of the new SUN 4900 yesterday, and was amazed by the hJ > poor IO subsystem. 16 PCI slots, mnay of them 33 MHZ. No PCI-X slots on  > 133 or 100 MHz.  >   . You appear to have looked in the wrong place !  = Counting the number of PCI slots and the speed of those slots > is the last place to look on a SMP server to discover what its I/O bandwidth might be.i  = Just as a hint, the PCI busses are driven by PCI bridges from-< the main backplane thats the place to look and if you do you< will find that in reality the Sun's are rather fast compared) with what is actually on offer elsewhere.m   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:05:54 +0100. From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!e2 Message-ID: <c1j3mp$p2k$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > Dirk Munk wrote: > + >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:n >> >>> Robert Klute wrote:e >>>,J >>>> On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:19:36 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy3 >>>> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  >>>>L >>>> I didn't say that 32bit systems haven't been popular.  In the 1 - 4 wayA >>>> space they dominate the market, showing that a most business,G >>>> applications can be solved cost effectively with such systems.  I u >>>> merelyhK >>>> said that the limited address space puts a cap on how many  processors 1 >>>> can be effectively used in a single system.   >>>t >>>h >>>  >>>lB >>> But since this point is demonstrably untrue it seems pointless >>> to have made it. >>>eE >>> Solaris 2.6 is a 32bit OS that does not stop it making use of the)? >>> 64 CPU's in a Sun E10000, Dynix was a 32bit OS that did nota9 >>> stop it using the 64 CPU's in the Sequent NUMA-Q box.o >> >> >>F >> The good old PDP 11/70 had 22 bit of memory/address space. However I >> RSX11M applications can only address 16 bits. You can run many 16 bit  J >> applications in that 22 bit address space. (RSX11M+ is the predecessor F >> of VMS, the PDP11 is the predecessor of the VAX. Both can still be D >> bought). More then 30 years ago Digital demonstrated that it was ! >> possible to do these 'tricks'.n >> >> >>>4G >>> 3.75 GB for a single process may be a problem for some applications G >>> it is not for most. As an example the majority of Oracle apps apartnI >>> from the DBMS are 32bit because they don't benefit from having 64bit n >>> support. >>> J >>> The apparent need for all applications and all systems to be 64bit wasI >>> a marketing campaign of Digitals, it was mostly rubbish. As the basisOI >>> of a Digital marketing campaign it had to be dubious though obviouslyrC >>> from this conversation some of the rubbish seems to have stuck.  >> >> >>G >> Now you're talking rubbish. Digital had the vision that disk access _F >> speed would become a big problem for fast database access. So they ; >> said let's move large parts of the database into memory.  >>E > Which could only apparently be accomplished by having 64bit support[ > in the OS. > D > Sadly at the time the only Digital platform that supported largishE > amounts of memory was the 8400 and at the time you only got largishbB > amounts of memory >8GB by trading CPU's and I/O slots for memoryE > resulting in a system that lacked CPU and I/O capacity thus provingVB > that caching a DBMS in memory was a good thing (at least for theD > config you ended up with because it had negligable I/O bandwidth). > 5 > In other words the claims were in practice rubbish.4    M There is a difference between setting up a concept to start from (the cpu in eP this case) and then applying the concept to products. It took some time to move Q from the 32 bit VMS 6.x operating system to the 64 bit VMS 7.x operating system. IN But is was the first 64 bit os on the market. At the same time they developed M Tru64, according to may the only *real* 64 bit Unix around. All other 64 bit t> Unixes seem to be 32 bit Unix versions with 64 bit extensions.  P And it wasn't about caching a DBMS, but about loading tablespaces etc. directly P into memory, a concept that was introduced with Oracle V8.x (maybe another DBMS - had this concept before Oracle, I don't know)l >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:41:54 -0500o* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! ) Message-ID: <403D169B.47CF708E@istop.com>h   "Main, Kerry" wrote:H > Small nit - Lets not re-write history... Microsoft only dropped Power,H > MIPS and Alpha HW platforms *after* the appropriate vendors themselves! > dropped Windows as a platform. C  M I think you are being naive here. Microsoft goes where there is money (or the H potential). When that potential doesn't materialise, Microsoft gets out.  N Don't kid yourself, the dropping of Windows on Alpha was very much a microsoftE decision. They just structured it so that it was Compaq that made thesM announcement and Microsoft came out of it like a saint and Compaq like Satan.a  G Microsoft only needs to shift certain responsabilities/costs over t theuG hardware manufacturer to make continued support unprofitable and voila,h% hardware manufacturer drops support. e  L In the case of Alpha, in hindsight, it is apparent that Compaq and MicrosoftJ agreed together to drop it and Compaq was probably compensated with betterN deal on Windows for wintel in exchange for taking the heat for canning WindowsM on Alpha. (or perhaps Gates invided Curly to a good restaurant as a gift, anda3 in the end, convinced Curly to pay for the meal :-)s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 08:32:26 GMTe0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!y, Message-ID: <uai%b.61555$4o.86231@attbi_s52>   JF Mezei wrote:- > "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:  H >>If MS wanted to be there, they would have had better support for IA-64L >>long ago, they haven't because the performance wasn't where it belonged...  O > Microsost isn't after performance, it is after volume. That is why windows on1O > Mips Power and Alpha were canned, even though they all outperformed the 8086.sP > And MS isn't interested in IA64 because there will not be the necessary volumeK > to justify continued development for that platform which will bring MS nooG > much, if anything, more than what the 64 bit 8086 brings for Windows.g  G They have a free trial version of Windows Server 2003 for IA64 and AMD  F x86-64.   I have both CDs, but no system to run either on.  The pricesD for low end CPU/motherboard for both seem pretty reasonable, though.  8 Will itanic prices go down now that intel is dumping it?  = I would probably rather run NetBSD on either machine, though.d   -- glenn   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:49:04 +0000-9 From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com>eC Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!l0 Message-ID: <c1kq03$nfo$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rick Jones wrote:-R > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: > D >>Sadly at the time the only Digital platform that supported largishE >>amounts of memory was the 8400 and at the time you only got largishiB >>amounts of memory >8GB by trading CPU's and I/O slots for memoryE >>resulting in a system that lacked CPU and I/O capacity thus proving-B >>that caching a DBMS in memory was a good thing (at least for theD >>config you ended up with because it had negligable I/O bandwidth). >  > C > The tradeoffs between CPU/Memory/IO sound rather like the SunFireW
 > systems. >  >   ; No they are not, A SunFire system can have 72 CPU's, 576 GBc; or RAM and 18 I/O controllers without any tradeoffs. If yout8 knew anything about 8400's which you obviously don't you3 would realise that the 8400 was entirely different.   B >>>And there we are wondering why that beautifull new system is soC >>>sloooow.  Sun systems have the same problem I can assure you. ByoF >>>the way, I studied the specs of the new SUN 4900 yesterday, and wasA >>>amazed by the poor IO subsystem. 16 PCI slots, mnay of them 33i) >>>MHZ. No PCI-X slots on 133 or 100 MHz.  >  > 0 >>You appear to have looked in the wrong place ! >  > ? >>Counting the number of PCI slots and the speed of those slots @ >>is the last place to look on a SMP server to discover what its >>I/O bandwidth might be.p >  > ? >>Just as a hint, the PCI busses are driven by PCI bridges from-> >>the main backplane thats the place to look and if you do you> >>will find that in reality the Sun's are rather fast compared+ >>with what is actually on offer elsewhere.c >  > = > If they can actually then drive that I/O out the PCI slots.e >   > Of course but then as you would also know Sun has demonstrated? 12.5 GB/s on a table scan from an Oracle DBMS sustained throughd4 the older I/O subsystem for the F15K what can you do  = And its sustained I/O that we quote not a marketing BS numberv; based on the number of slots x the speed of the slots which.> is the tried and tested faire for the HP marketing dept as you
 also know.     Regardsg Andrew Harrisonm > rick jones   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:57:23 -0500a' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>tC Subject: RE: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB2791BA@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com]=20! > Sent: February 25, 2004 4:42 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComoE > Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!  >=20 > "Main, Kerry" wrote:> > > Small nit - Lets not re-write history... Microsoft only=20 > dropped Power,=20vB > > MIPS and Alpha HW platforms *after* the appropriate vendors=20 > themselves=20 " > > dropped Windows as a platform. >=20A > I think you are being naive here. Microsoft goes where there=20r= > is money (or the potential). When that potential doesn't=20o" > materialise, Microsoft gets out. >=20B > Don't kid yourself, the dropping of Windows on Alpha was very=20B > much a microsoft decision. They just structured it so that it=20A > was Compaq that made the announcement and Microsoft came out=20 + > of it like a saint and Compaq like Satan.  >=20A > Microsoft only needs to shift certain responsabilities/costs=20g? > over t the hardware manufacturer to make continued support=20gA > unprofitable and voila, hardware manufacturer drops support.=20  >=20< > In the case of Alpha, in hindsight, it is apparent that=20? > Compaq and Microsoft agreed together to drop it and Compaq=20 = > was probably compensated with better deal on Windows for=20oB > wintel in exchange for taking the heat for canning Windows on=20@ > Alpha. (or perhaps Gates invided Curly to a good restaurant=20D > as a gift, and in the end, convinced Curly to pay for the meal :-) >=20   JF,   G Re: dropping of HW platforms by Microsoft. Well, this has been rehashede a kazillion times before, but -r  H Since it was the HW vendors that were doing all of the porting, testing,F certification and even packaging / distribution work and absorbing allE of the costs, why do you think Microsoft would drop a platform if the  vendor still supported it?=20c  C At one point "multi-platform" was a bullet that was used to promote: Windows.  H I have no idea of what deals (if any) were made after the decisions wereF made by the various HW vendors (IBM, MIPS, Compaq) who dropped Windows as a supported platform.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660c Fax: 613-591-4477v Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcomv. (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:05:15 GMT 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! / Message-ID: <vzq%b.127388$jk2.539633@attbi_s53>    Joshua Cope wrote:   > glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:  : >>Will itanic prices go down now that intel is dumping it?  @ > Intel hasn't dumped anything yet, according to their website. $ > These are Intel's words, not mine!  9 > http://www.intel.com/technology/64bitextensions/faq.htmt9 > -------------------------------------------------------o  N >    "We offer two architectures and will continue to invest in both. Keep in L >     mind that 64-bits alone does not significantly change the fundamental K >     features or performance of a processor... These markets require much  N >     more than just 64-bits - the scalability and reliability of the Itanium & >     processor family are paramount."  J >    "The Itanium processor family is and will continue to be the highest I >     performing and most reliable product family we offer for high-end,   >     multi-processor systems."p  H >    "64-bit extension technology is an extension to Intel's processors G >     based on the IA-32 architecture. The Itanium processor family is mF >     based on the EPIC architecture. These are two separate families F >     of processors based on two different architectures. The Itanium G >     processor family is specifically designed for the most demanding  % >     mission critical applications."n  D Well, they could have said that about Alpha.   If the new processorsB are cheaper and faster won't many users switch over, even for high end servers?  C I suppose I would be looking at the bottom end of the current line, C maybe a home machine with 4GB ram, single processor, running NetBSD > or Windows Server 2003.  OK, maybe even VMS (I just remembered which newsgroup this was).   -- glenn   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 12:38:59 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)sC Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!g3 Message-ID: <w9CvMFd7FBzi@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  b In article <vzq%b.127388$jk2.539633@attbi_s53>, glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes: > Joshua Cope wrote: >    > I >>    "64-bit extension technology is an extension to Intel's processors mH >>     based on the IA-32 architecture. The Itanium processor family is G >>     based on the EPIC architecture. These are two separate families  G >>     of processors based on two different architectures. The Itanium jH >>     processor family is specifically designed for the most demanding & >>     mission critical applications." > F > Well, they could have said that about Alpha.   If the new processorsD > are cheaper and faster won't many users switch over, even for high > end servers? >   9 	Itanium is supposed to stay ahead of x86 in performance.u? 	Intel publically states that Itanium will reach pricing paritye? 	with Xeon.  The only way to get anyone to move to Itanium frome= 	Xeon is to sell it same price and make it faster.  The othert@ 	way would be to kill Xeon.  But they "obviously" can't do that ; 	with AMD selling a competing product.  So Itanium adoptionpC 	certainly gaines moementum when they hit Xeon pricing (low voltagel* 	models certainly help in several spaces).  8 	But according to Gartner - 64-bit extended x86 won't be8 	around forever.  Which is big 64-bit environment in the 	future?  2 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/35/35839.html  N "I am by no means an Itanium cheerleader. However I simply do not believe thatN adding 64-bit addressing puts Xeon/Opteron on par with Itanium - there is moreI to a processor than the address space it can address. Does 64-bit address2O extension technology slow down Itanium penetration into the high-volume Windows:J market (1 and 2-way servers)? Of course it does. But does it knock ItaniumN completely out of the market? Of course it does not. Do you really think we'llM be running 32-bit processors in new servers (with 64-bitextensions or not) in2# the post 2010 time frame? I don't."M    : 	Not putting words in his mouth, but how long does/can you- 	support x86 ISA?  I think that is his point.    				Robn   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:12:39 GMTl2 From: "Ken Farmer" <KFarmer@NOSPAM.SpyderByte.com>5 Subject: Re: J F on Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz > Message-ID: <Xk7%b.33344$eL2.2751820@twister.southeast.rr.com>  4 Are you writing this drivel in another newsgroup JF?   Keni   -- Kenneth Farmer <><        2 "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message2 news:70ee9715241715d1f4f93cd51ebfac80@dizum.com... >l0 > nobody <nobody@nobody.org> (JF Mezei) trolled: > ( > >"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:I > >> week indicated that, if the election were to be held this week, Bush I > >> would lose to the Democratic candidate (when offered either choice - K > >> Kerry/Bush or Edwards/Bush - both Democrats showed significant leads).o > >. > >iI > >Bush Jr has done a **LOT** of damage to the USA (from an internationalr pointgG > >of view). For one thing, the USA is no longer able to make any claim= based on/ > >its "intelligence" without being laughed at.- > >nL > >Bush invaded a country illegally, against United Nations. Bush lied about thewF > >reasons for the invasion. He coerced other (weak) countries such as
 Poland andC > >Hungary to help. (can you spell "blackmail" ?) The list goes on.c > >i; > >It is called abuse of power. It must never happen again.d > > J > >Right now, the american public must not only kick Bush and his ilks out with aK > >resounding defeat (less than 20% of the votes), but they must also startaL > >judicial proceedings against Bush and his axis of evil (Rumsfeld, Cheney,L > >Wolfowitz). The american public must show to the world that they will notH > >tolerate another Bush Jr style of administration. The american public mustL > >show to their political parties that people like Bush will never egain beJ > >elected. That will motivate the political parties to never again choose such > >leadership. > >eJ > >Unfortunatly, the american public does not realise how much damage Bush has K > >caused in the world and inside the USA. His successor will have a lot ofE" > >fences to mend, wounds to heal. > > K > >The american pubnlic must show the world, especially he middle east thats BushL > >was just a (very bad) blip in the history of the USA and that it does notH > >signify a trend.  Look at how long it took Germany to heal the wounds after J > >Hittler's regime. The middle east will take a long time to forget about Bush.a > >iK > >North Korea will probably agree to re-instate the peace treaty signed byyJ > >Clinton and destroyed by Bush. (North Korea is just some bad leader who has atJ > >beef against USA, the people don't really have hatred against USA). But in theK > >middle east, hatred runs high in the masses, and this requires lots more  > >diplomacy and time to fix.E > >eK > >Of course, the Bush regime looks quite silly now, still accusing Iran of 4 > >producing WMDs. Makes the Bush regime look like a pre-scripted/pre-recorded L > >adminstration whose speeches continue to blast Iran despite the fact that IranK > >has agreed to full UN inspections and the rest of the world is satisfied8 that > >Iran will comply. >-/ >                ============================== , >                 FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS >(/ >                                         About  >t2 >                                  J F   M E Z E I0 >                 ============================== >e > 1.  Who is JF Mezei? >gI > Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever hit L > rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also one of the+ > longest running trolls in usenet history.r >.$ > 2.  How long has he been trolling? >i > For well over a decade.n >  > 3.  Where does he live?e >u > Montreal, Quebec, Canada >s > Jean-Francois Mezeio > 86 Harwood Gatee > Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3a > (514) 695-8259 >t, > 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll? >pJ > His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades yourL > newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, day in and day out,K > every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He does not listen tou pleashK > to stop, he does not listen to anything anyone tells him, he does not payuL > attention when the misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he justJ > goes right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his earsI > closed while yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear anything you say!"y >s > 5.  What does he troll about?  >lH > His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  He	 hates thelA > USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn it into aR USA-bashing0E > fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just start making lewd posts.t >f& > 6.  What does he hate about the USA? > I > Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have au visceralE > hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a happier,e better, moreL > successful version of their country and they can't stand it.  Some of JF'sH > favorite troll bait is "the Bush regime", "the Bush-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz axis ofbL > evil", "Americans are brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all > Americans are stupid" etc. >-% > 7.  What about his sexual trolling?0 > G > Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre.m	 Among histK > favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women's genitalia, sex toys,eF > circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of course) ... the list is endless. >e > 8.  Circumcision???c >hK > Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes top insertH > circumcision into his trolling every now and then.  Apparently, JF wasJ > traumatized as a child because his parents, poor Hungarian immigrants to Canada,cJ > left him uncircumcised when he was born, as is the custom in most of the world.J > Growing up in Canada where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time, H > he was psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he arrangedF > to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades of circumcisionK > proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a free willy.  His  mainE > argument is how much better he was able to masturbate after gettingv circumcised,K > without that "pesky foreskin" getting in the way of his enjoyment, and hen hase@ > made it his mission in life to spread the circumcision gospel. >tJ > 9.  What's his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of freaky. > K > Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among the subjectsu dearK > to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, especially littlee boy'snL > foreskins (and how tight they are) and little girls' hymens.  He is also aB > tireless activist and advocate that children should be taught to
 masturbateJ > early on so that they don't grow up "sexually repressed like Americans". >jG > He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check theirh littleE > boys' penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, proper-	 movement, L > and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.  Utopia for JF would be a@ > world full of parents manipulating their little boys' penises. >sJ > 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the minute! Area  > you sure about all this stuff? >2F > Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There's over a decade fullm > of Mezei trolling in there.  > J > 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn't he change aliases all the time like > all trolls do? >dD > Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known trolling
 > aliases. >,I > 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn't he work?  >nG > Ha ha ha!  JF hasn't worked a day in his life!  He's an adult baby, a 	 grown maneF > who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and trolls the
 newsgroupsJ > all night.  In his free time when he isn't trolling he likes to ride his bikeI > down to Dorval Airport and race the planes down the runway in his bike.@ >s; > 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something?a >cJ > Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man's body.  Psychologically he never got pastI > the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor (i.e. "pull mysJ > finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been able to outgrow. > K > 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about them,  is > that true? > I > Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in the lockere room.sK > He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has seen in locker roomsl overJ > the years, especially his unnatural obsession with foreskins.  He stalks the menEG > in locker rooms trying to measure how much foreskin they have, or howa	 little islH > left if they have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he spots ac > case of phimosis.  > I > 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an insanen asylum!  > K > Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin foil, hatLH > world where others are out to get him.  The key to understanding JF is that henJ > sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the world is out to get him, especially thes+ > USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all about.a >yF > What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian rail
 system wasL > "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut, spotting trains,K > writing down their numbers and chasing them down at the train yard like a  goodK > freak.  Then he turned his attention to aviation.  Major events that made  himsE > fall head first deep into the abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadiani Airlines andE > their subsequent takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  Soo paranoid ishE > he that when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada(	 employeestI > went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to cover upg the AirvF > Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up of the crash3 > investigation.  He has never recovered from this.0 >*8 > 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him! >_H > His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to some ancient,L > arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has taken seriously forI > decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and social dropouts whow share L > his psychological traumas, crying for the good old vax days of yore.  It's > really pathetic! > # > 17.  Where else does he hang out?  > K > can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geeky computer I > groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster he invaded theLC > sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, and trolled itl relentlesslyI > with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crap he's so famous for.  Butf they ranK > him off that group and he had to go crawling back to comp.os.vms with his  tail' > between his legs, licking his wounds.r >sK > 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and doesn'tf troll. >sK > Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it's impossible not to troll, so her slipsu@ > in troll bait every now and then, but by and large he respects comp.os.vms, and,oI > more importantly, he tries to hide his trolling activities from them so  they, > won't find out what a major netkook he is. >uK > 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind ofi psycho > he is! >uG > Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And whilei	 you're ateK > it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fido too.  And to-4 > alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and news.admin.net-abuse.usenet. >f6 > 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address? > J > Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts to: >  > abuse@sympatico.ca > abuse@bellglobal.com > abuse@istop.comt > L > And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups, email it tohH > people, you may host it at your own website, send it to newspapers and	 magazinesoK > that do Internet articles or anything to do with Montreal or Canada, etc.l >p >g > *** APPENDIX *** >sI > List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over the years.r This issG > only a partial list, he has so many it's impossible to compile a full  list.u >  > jfmezei@istop.comu > jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com4 > jfmezei@videotron.ca > jfmezei@vl.videotron.ca  > nospam.jfmezei@videotron.cac  > "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam] >( > nobody <nobody@nobody.com> > nobody <nobody@nobody.net> > nobody <nobody@nobody.org> > nobody <nobody@nobody.info>l > nobody <nobody@nobody.int> > nobody <nobody@nothing.nil>  > nobody <nobody@null.dev> > muklak <muklak@eskimo.net> > Sheep skin <sheep@station.au>-% > snowy squirrel <squirrel@nest.tree>2+ > Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>i( > Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>& > Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>' > Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>t > Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>' > Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org>r$ > Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>& > Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>/ > Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>w) > Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com>o$ > Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> > Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>i) > Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org> * > Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>( > Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org>! > Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org> ) > Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org> ' > Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>o > Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>f# > Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org>>% > Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>m" > Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>& > Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>( > Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>& > Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>, > Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org>  > Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org># > Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>o! > Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>d& > Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org># > Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>a# > Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org> " > Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>& > Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org>  > Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>' > Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>3' > Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>w& > Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> > Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>l( > Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>* > Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>' > Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org>o' > Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>e( > Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>, > Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>( > Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>) > Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>b) > Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>n* > Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>. > Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>0 > Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> > Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>i) > Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org>e' > Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org>S& > Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>$ > Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>( > Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org>% > Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>a* > Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>' > Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>a$ > Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>' > Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>d( > Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>) > Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>a+ > Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>m) > Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>f$ > Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>* > Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>. > George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>- > Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org>r, > Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>* > Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>) > Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org>m, > Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org>! > T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>a > Q <queue@continuum.net>0 > Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>, > Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>+ > John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>h >O= > *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY*  >  >  >t >  >s >e >e >a >  >h >h >  >s >f >e >s >e >u >o >e >y   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:09:10 +0200s0 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com> Subject: Re: JBIG Printing* Message-ID: <403cd6e6@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  C "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> wrote in message,* news:tg4%b.58$os4.14839@news.uswest.net...I > I need to hook up a printer that uses host based JBIG compression.  TheoL > specific printer is a Sharp AL-1651CS.  Does anyone know where I can get a > JBIG printer library for VMS?o > 	 > Thanks,/ > Mike Ober. >  >i  " Look at....maybe it will help.....  < http://nchrem.tnw.tudelft.nl/openvms/software2.html#Jbig2dec   Guyk   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 07:32:38 -0800- From: phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer)w8 Subject: Re: KGPSA-C and EMC DS-24 M2 SAN Switch Problem= Message-ID: <5ee1d1b7.0402260732.616f7a32@posting.google.com>i  o "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> wrote in message news:<HA2%b.83497$n62.13845@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...2< > "PhilThayer" <phillip_thayer@hotmail.com> wrote in message9 > news:5ee1d1b7.0402242001.73f39cd3@posting.google.com...K@ > > We have just purchased an AlphaServer ES40 M2 with a KGPSA-CH > > FiberChannel card in it.  I am trying to get connectivity to the EMCI > > DAS-24 M2 SAN switch but it doesn't seem to be working.  I am runningtF > > console firmware version 6.6-19 from Nov 2003 and have replace theG > > fiber and card already and still no luck.  The EMC people said that E > > when the switch sees "light" on the fiber cable a blue light willsH > > light up next to the port I am useing.  But it never lights up and IC > > keep getting the message "pga0.0.0.4.1 link down" on the system>) > > console when I initialize the system.y > >uG > > Is there something I am missing or not doing properly?  Any help orb> > > pointers to the right direction with this would be greatly > > appreciated. > >  > > Thanks,a > > Phil > H > Some FC cards will not connect to the fabric when the system is at theM > console level.  An overt act such as executing a WWIDMGR command or bootingpN > the OS is needed to force the FC port login.  I seem to remember that my 1Gb/ > cards required this but my 2Gb cards did not.d >   B Did not know this.  I did get one suggestion from a good friend toB turn AUTONEGOTIATE OFF and set the port speed to 1GB on the switch port.   # Soes that sound like it might work?>   > Try a: > B > >> set mode advanced -or- set mode diag (I can't remember which) > >> wwidmgr -show adaptor > M > If you're getting the "Nvram read failed" messages, you may also want to do  > a:  > Not getting this message.  For a while I was getting a messageF something like "Waiting for PGA0 to start....." 12 times then the bootA would continue.  Not getting that message anymore though.  Now it % simply says "pga0.0.0.4.1 link down".h  D When I do a "wwidmgr -show adap" it shows tha adapter and the WWN no@ problem.  When I do "wwidmgr -show reachability" it doesn't show	 anything.D   > 1 > >> wwidmgr -set adaptor -item 9999 -topo fabricb >    Did that.  No luck. :(   > See: > O > ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/readmes/v6.6/doc/wwidmgr.pdfh >  > -Jeffy   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:58:01 +0000a- From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk>s Subject: Re: Leap year.t8 Message-ID: <dvrp30dovapov70c0rfc62scokv5sv5qf0@4ax.com>  2 On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:36:59 -0000, "Leigh Bowden"* <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:  E >Are there any issues with the 2004 leap year. I've not heard of any.m  J Nor me.  Didn't mean I didn't have to exhaustively test a pile of dates in% 2004 during "Y2K" testing, though ;-)    -- r/ It takes years to get used to how old you are.     Mail john rather than nospam...n   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 07:00:41 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t Subject: Re: Leap year.n3 Message-ID: <p5Ti0hnptCdM@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  i In article <c1iq25$5kp$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Leigh Bowden" <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk> writes:yF > Are there any issues with the 2004 leap year. I've not heard of any. >   C    It happens to be exactly 20 years after Microsoft missed they'reSB    first leap year.  Other than that I know of no systems from any'    vendor which have a problem with it.m   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:40:59 +0000 (UTC)-P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)0 Subject: Re: Mozilla, system resources and fonts$ Message-ID: <c1iq7r$bga$2@online.de>  < In article <224291b.0402250154.6ff35857@posting.google.com>,1 martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby) writes: r  H > At a guess, Mozilla is probably doing an X list fonts with info query.F > That provides a lot of data back to the client and typically does itE > as a number of small replies at a time. I suspect there is a lot ofoE > TCPIP activity which isn't showing up by monitor. BUFIO activity ing5 > the client and display server probably can be seen.   F That's what I would have guessed, but I didn't see any BUFIO activity  either.s   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 01:42:34 -0800. From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby)0 Subject: Re: Mozilla, system resources and fonts< Message-ID: <224291b.0402260142.1cb600dd@posting.google.com>  B Another guess then. If the display server is OpenVMS how much time> during this delay is it spending in LEF state rather than HIB?  D If the server is sending lots of data to the client and the InternetD pipe fills up then the server stops in LEF waiting for space to send
 more data.   Martin Kirby   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 08:54:30 +0000 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam># Subject: Re: ODBC drivers for MSSQL 4 Message-ID: <c1kc86$674$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   Joseph Lamb wrote:C > Is there a way to have a VMS box run a PERL script that queries a6 > WIN2k MSSQL server?D > 1 > Can someone please point me to the information?   I Dunno about perl, but we use freetds on VMS to do sql queries to our sql a: server 2k db, either command line or integrated into apps.   Chriso   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 07:10:30 -0500i' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>1# Subject: RE: ODBC drivers for MSSQL R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB2791A4@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----5 > From: Joseph Lamb [mailto:joseph_lamb@yahoo.com]=20 " > Sent: February 26, 2004 12:28 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comw! > Subject: ODBC drivers for MSSQLo >=20< > Is there a way to have a VMS box run a PERL script that=20 > queries a WIN2k MSSQL server?t >=201 > Can someone please point me to the information?o >=20 > Joseph >=20   Joseph,e  = A commercial product called Attunity Connect can be found at:a, http://www.attunity.com/products/openvms.asp  H Oh, and by the way, here is recent announcement from Attunity on OpenVMS IPF:/ http://www.attunity.com/products/OpenVMSItanium    Regardsw  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanto HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax: 613-591-4477l Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcomD. (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 08:22:07 +0100s( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>T Subject: Re: OpenVMS thrashes slowaris and aix in cluster tco/virus study	... again!3 Message-ID: <001701c3fc39$3dcfcd70$994614ac@wat153>m   Hello,   Mark did wrote:n   >>>lE If you going to discuss the marketing at least get the name right itsyH Tru64 NOT TRUE64 ;(    I'd be very surprised if VMS out shipped Tru64 or for that matter any unix . <<<i  F The reported market share of 4.8% I a few years back (2...3years). TheE last value I did see was near by OpenVMS. I think this was in case of D lot of promotion for this Unix and the well done TrueCluster (not as2 good as OpenVMSCluster but better then any other).   Best regards Rudolf Wingerti  C P.S. I did wrote this mail, that Andrew see, that OpenVMS is not sofC obscure, how did he write. In the early days (VMS 1.7 to 4.7) theretF where a lot of hacker, which did hack VMS sometimes with success. AlsoE the first virus (at this time not known as Virus) was written by VMS.aH But VMS do have security by design, other then Unix and Windows. In caseA of that it was very easy to make a secure system. Also do OpenVMSt= engineer have about five year more experience then other one.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:14:50 GMT & From: Greg Zymbaluk <greg@no.spam.com>, Subject: Passing a socket to another process1 Message-ID: <uC5%b.1087$In7.441@news.cpqcorp.net>-  
 Greetings,  H I'm trying to pass a connected socket from one process to another. I am 1 using the sockets API (not $QIO system services).   & I have 2 C programs, parent and child.  > Parent process creates a listener socket and accepts incoming C connections. When a connection comes in (via accept()) it gets the 2E device name using SYS$GETDVIW and then creates the child process. It e7 then passes the device name to the child via a mailbox.u  I Child gets the device name from Parent and then creates a channel to the sC network device via SYS$ASSIGN. Child then passes a message back to o4 Parent via the mailbox that it has the channel open.  I Parent then closes the socket and goes back to listening for connections.   G Now I'd like for Child to be able to send() and recv() on that socket,  D but that's where I'm stuck. I tried using the channel number in the F calls to send() and recv() but that doesn't work. I'm guessing that I H need to create a new socket that uses that channel that I've created to 4 the network device, but I don't know how to do that.   Any suggestions?   Thanks in advance,   Greg   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 08:41:40 -0500K2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>0 Subject: Re: Passing a socket to another process. Message-ID: <403DB144.1552.3A5C7874@localhost>  - On 25 Feb 2004 at 18:14, Greg Zymbaluk wrote:iF > I'm trying to pass a connected socket from one process to another. I6 > am using the sockets API (not $QIO system services). > H > Now I'd like for Child to be able to send() and recv() on that socket,E > but that's where I'm stuck. I tried using the channel number in theaG > calls to send() and recv() but that doesn't work. I'm guessing that ItF > need to create a new socket that uses that channel that I've created9 > to the network device, but I don't know how to do that.   E The channel number is process-specific, and doesn't mean anything to r any other process.  F I've done what you want.  You'll have to find the device name for the C connected socket, and pass that to the child.  The child will need aD SHARE privilege to open the socket at the same time as the parent.   This will require QIO's.  E This application sounds very Unix-like.  Perhaps you should consider hE going multi-threaded using AST's.  Or at least by using the "select" r8 socket call.  I've done both -- AST's are the way to go.  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671e1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147s= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:43:18 -0800e# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>u Subject: PL/I Supporth9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIIEBBCOAA.tom@kednos.com>l  @ Owing to Storms over the Pacific we are without power and expectB to be so for several days.  If you have any pressing needs please > telephone USA 831 373 7003.  We are, and will be running off a# backup generator, but not non-stop.a   regardsr
 Tom Linden ---n& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:34:39 +0000 (UTC)eP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)8 Subject: Re: printing characters with codes > 127 in DCL$ Message-ID: <c1iprv$bga$1@online.de>  A In article <c1ifhs$1ij0ia$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Peter 8 Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> writes:   # > Do you have any VT510 terminals? n  D I have one, but it requires a different keyboard connector, which I  don't have at the moment.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:56:12 +0000t- From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk>i8 Subject: Re: printing characters with codes > 127 in DCL8 Message-ID: <ntrp3054p4bgtjk4e87b80fa33r3dgbqdn@4ax.com>  I On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:34:39 +0000 (UTC), helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.dee1 (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:   B >In article <c1ifhs$1ij0ia$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Peter9 >Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> writes: a >m$ >> Do you have any VT510 terminals?  >hE >I have one, but it requires a different keyboard connector, which I t >don't have at the moment.  * PS/2 I think - same as most Alphastations.   -- e- If you have nothing to do, don't do it here.     Mail john rather than nospam...s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:57:12 +0100c* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>L Subject: Re: Problem with installing Security MUP on a VMS 7.3-1 workstation0 Message-ID: <403DDF18.46EBF9EF@sture.homeip.net>   Ted Allwood wrote: > . > Can anyone offer some advice on this, please > , > I'm attempting to install the security MUP* >         ECO NUMBER:     VMS731_SYS-V0400 >  > on an Alpha workstation  >  > $ Show sys/noprocaN > OpenVMS V7.3-1  on node KIAXP1  25-FEB-2004 17:16:54.41  Uptime  88 01:32:54 >  > $ product show utility< > POLYCENTER Software Installation utility version: V7.3-2007 >     Product Configuration File (PCF) support level: 1o5 >     Product Description File (PDF) support level: 7e. >     Product Text File (PTF) support level: 2 > ; > from CD: OVMSALPMUP3 (October 2003) on local drive DKA400% > ' > The installation guide on the CD sayss@ >     PRODUCT INSTALL VMS731_SYS-V0400 /SOURCE=[location of Kit] >  > So...-? > $ product install vms731_sys-v0400 /source=DKA400:[alphav731] ( > %PCSI-E-S_INVNAM, invalid product nameO > %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error conditiont >  > Try again with...>9 > $ product install vms731_sys /source=DKA400:[alphav731]eR > %PCSI-E-PDFERR, error in processing product description file DKA400:[ALPHAV731]D& > EC-AXPVMS-VMS731_SYS-V0400--4.PCSI;1R >    16       execute pre_undo "@pcsi$source:[sysupd]preundo.com" interactive uses >  [SYSUPD]PREUNDO.COM ;. > %PCSI-E-PDFUDK, undefined keyword \pre_undo\? > %PCSI-E-PROCTERM, processing terminated due to previous errorn$ > %PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failedO > %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error condition  > * > Has anyone seem similar or could advise? > 	 > Thanks,s > Tedh >t  + Have you also installed VMS731_PCSI-V0100 ?v   From the PCSI Release notes:  A      o  This patch kit gives the user the capability to uninstalleH          (UNDO) patch kits for which recovery data has been saved.  This?          capability is supported by the following new commands:n  0           o  PRODUCT INSTALL /SAVE_RECOVERY_DATA             o  PRODUCT UNDO PATCH   '           o  PRODUCT SHOW RECOVERY_DATA3  )           o  PRODUCT DELETE RECOVERY_DATAe   The error message:   - %PCSI-E-PDFUDK, undefined keyword \pre_undo\    E seems entirely consistent with you not having applied this ECO first.   F Note, after installing  VMS731_PCSI-V0100, you need to log out and logB in again before using the PRODUCT command, to get the new version.
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:37:28 +0000h, From: Ted Allwood <support@leva.leeds.ac.uk>L Subject: Re: Problem with installing Security MUP on a VMS 7.3-1 workstation3 Message-ID: <00A2DFF6.240CB23B.20@leva.leeds.ac.uk>   J My thanks to Steven M. Schweda, Norm Raphael, David Harrold and Paul StureD for pointing out that I should have installed a new version of PCSI.  E Attempting an update at the end of a long day probably wasn't such a rF good idea and I hadn't read the installation document carefully enoughG although the need to upgrade the upgrade utility is not something that >= I'd consider to be typical of VMS.  I still prefer vmsinstal!i  
 Thanks again.a     Regards, TedN   -- sK Support@leva.leeds.ac.uk                                Tel:  0113 34 321678+ www.mech-eng.leeds.ac.uk/support/index.htmlrG School of Mechanical Engineering,  University of Leeds,  Leeds  LS2 9JT>   ------------------------------   Date: 25 FEB 2004 16:44:47 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher). Subject: Re: Securing SYSTEM from TCPIP access6 Message-ID: <25FEB04.16444799@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  B In a previous article, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:  L ->Is there a way to secure the SYSTEM (and other highly privileged accounts)I ->from any TCPIP access (especially Telnet and FTP) without impairing thet5 ->required local access (possibly including DECNET) ?U  @ One way is to check the logical SYS$REM_ID in SYLOGIN.COM. If itA contains TELNET_ or FTP_ then this is a Telnet or FTP login. E.g.  in sylogin.com:e   $ Rem_ID = F$Trn("SYS$REM_ID")G $ If Rem_ID .nes. Rem_ID - "TELNET_"-"FTP_" Then @Sys$Manager:Net_Check   A In Net_Check.com you can then check to ensure the user has normal 5 privs and if not reject the connection using LOGOUT. f  D You could go further and perform per user access checks by using theB value of logical SYS$REM_NODE which is the IP number of the remoteD host (certain past versions of UCX/TCPIP did not define the sys$rem*D names with correct values). The IP number and username could be usedF to search for a line in a text file to match an entry that would allow@ a particular user access from one or more hosts. Not trivial butB doable. You would need to pay careful attention to error handling.   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisond9 --                  karcher.nomorespxm@waisman.wisc.edu  e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 07:10:25 -0700lB From: "Tillman, Brian (AGRE)" <Brian.Tillman@smiths-aerospace.com>. Subject: RE: Securing SYSTEM from TCPIP accessO Message-ID: <11721EF39C7D7F47A55447158274CAF7AF9EAB@cossmgmbx01.email.corp.tld>e   Carl Karcher wrote:.  B > One way is to check the logical SYS$REM_ID in SYLOGIN.COM. If itC > contains TELNET_ or FTP_ then this is a Telnet or FTP login. E.g.n > in sylogin.com:a   Oh, really?    $ sho log sys$rem_id6    "SYS$REM_ID" =3D "0A210148:0D21" (LNM$JOB_93913A00)  D This from a system into which I've telnetted using Multinet (on both
 machines).   $ sho log sys$rem_id: %SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name SYS$REM_ID  F This from a machine into which I've telnetted (Multinet on originating. system, HP TCP/IP V5.0A on receiving machine).  $ Definitely an unreliable suggestion. --=0D  Brian Tillman        =0D Smiths Aerospace 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS 1B3 Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991N> Brian.Tillman is the name, smiths-aerospace.com is the domain.	       =0Dm: I don't speak for Smiths, and Smiths doesn't speak for me.      * ******************************************G The information contained in, or attached to, this e-mail, may contain= D  confidential information and is intended solely for the use of the=G  individual or entity to whom they are addressed and may be subject to=wH  legal privilege.  If you have received this e-mail in error you should=H  notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail, delete the message from=L  your system and notify your system manager.  Please do not copy it for any=F  purpose, or disclose its contents to any other person.  The views or=I  opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do=CG  not necessarily represent those of the company.  The recipient should=lI  check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses.  The=eA  company accepts no liability for any damage caused, directly or=k4  indirectly, by any virus transmitted in this email.* ******************************************   ------------------------------   Date: 26 FEB 2004 16:32:15 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher). Subject: Re: Securing SYSTEM from TCPIP access6 Message-ID: <26FEB04.16321592@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  Z In a previous article, "Tillman, Brian (AGRE)" <Brian.Tillman@smiths-aerospace.com> wrote: -> a
 ->Oh, really?  -> d ->$ sho log sys$rem_id8 ->   "SYS$REM_ID" =3D "0A210148:0D21" (LNM$JOB_93913A00) -> tF ->This from a system into which I've telnetted using Multinet (on both ->machines). ->   ->$ sho log sys$rem_id< ->%SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name SYS$REM_ID ->  H ->This from a machine into which I've telnetted (Multinet on originating0 ->system, HP TCP/IP V5.0A on receiving machine).  B I did mention that some past versions of UCX/TCPIP didn't set the C SYS$REM* names. V5.0A was one of them. Try it with a recent versionn, instead of one that's more than 4 years old.   Here's the ECO that fixed it:s  " ECO G   20-Oct-1999	Alpha  and VAX           Images:r  + 	TCPIP$BGDRIVER.EXE    				V5.0A-1G (Alpha)a- 	TCPIP$INTERNET_SERVICES.EXE			V5.0A-1G (VAX)t  	 	Problem:x  = 	The SYS$REM_ID logical does not get set up for network jobs.x           Solution:r  @ 	In INET_SETMODE, copy (at most 15) bytes from CTL$GQ_REMOTE_UIDC 	to CTL$T_REMOTEID.  This is needed because LOGINOUT is still usings 	the old P1 global.l   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisoni= --                      karcher.nomorespxm@waisman.wisc.edu  m   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2004 23:57:14 -08007 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)i0 Subject: Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought= Message-ID: <8a646952.0402252357.41a75c1e@posting.google.com>w   Dear Chris Townley:m  C I would use DECamds to watch the process in real time. If you don'tg@ have DECamds, I would you DECps (Polycenter Performance Adviser,= AdiveIT) to look at the system while the process was running.m   Regards, Daryl Jones   u chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk (Chris Townley) wrote in message news:<93b50805.0402251036.5c53d5cb@posting.google.com>... D > I have an issue with SOR routines in a DEC Basic program, run as a; > detached process using SYS$CREPRC. This is BASIC V1.3-000sE > compiled/linked under OpenVMS V6.2 (Alpha). Images being run on thet? > same version. High performance sort is not in use. I have nowl) > recreated on a standalone test machine.r > G > There are many large data structures, so the working set is high, buto0 > as far as I can see there are no quota issues. > G > After initialising 4 record sorts, and putting 5000 or 6000 in two ofe= > them (records sizes are 6 and 61) LIB$RELEASE_REC returns at > SORT-E-OPENOUT error.tG > It is made more difficult as I cannot recreate running interactively,o > nor in debug.s > D > I have played with the obvious quotas and WSEXTENT, as well as the# > number of work files to no avail.i >  > Any pointers anybody ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:41:40 +0100a* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>0 Subject: Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought0 Message-ID: <403DDB74.65B6A6CE@sture.homeip.net>   Chris Townley wrote: > D > I have an issue with SOR routines in a DEC Basic program, run as a; > detached process using SYS$CREPRC. This is BASIC V1.3-000eE > compiled/linked under OpenVMS V6.2 (Alpha). Images being run on the ? > same version. High performance sort is not in use. I have nowp) > recreated on a standalone test machine.n > G > There are many large data structures, so the working set is high, but 0 > as far as I can see there are no quota issues. > G > After initialising 4 record sorts, and putting 5000 or 6000 in two of = > them (records sizes are 6 and 61) LIB$RELEASE_REC returns as > SORT-E-OPENOUT error.hG > It is made more difficult as I cannot recreate running interactively,  > nor in debug.d >c  G That suggests soemthing different about the detached process. Certainlyi* if you are running it with something like   & $ RUN /DETACHED /INPUT=xxx /OUTPUT=yyy  = then you have a couple of files open which you don't when runn2 interactively, so they could require extra quotas.   D > I have played with the obvious quotas and WSEXTENT, as well as the# > number of work files to no avail.d >  > Any pointers anybody ?   --     -- h
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 06:58:49 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n0 Subject: Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought3 Message-ID: <+R4HsxlYEexH@eisner.encompasserve.org>H  p In article <93b50805.0402251036.5c53d5cb@posting.google.com>, chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk (Chris Townley) writes:G > After initialising 4 record sorts, and putting 5000 or 6000 in two of = > them (records sizes are 6 and 61) LIB$RELEASE_REC returns a  > SORT-E-OPENOUT error. G > It is made more difficult as I cannot recreate running interactively,  > nor in debug./ >   C    OPENOUT generaly has to do with opening output files.  There's arB    very good chance that your program is relying on something suchD    as a process logical name that the detached process isn't seeing.  A    What is the full spec of the sort output file?  Check all it'shA    pieces to see if any are logical names and what table they ared    defined in.      t   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 04 09:31:47 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com 0 Subject: Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought( Message-ID: <AFDpBicHotQ9@cpva.saic.com>  = In article <93b50805.0402251036.5c53d5cb@posting.google.com>,a3  chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk (Chris Townley) writes:CD > I have an issue with SOR routines in a DEC Basic program, run as a; > detached process using SYS$CREPRC. This is BASIC V1.3-000tE > compiled/linked under OpenVMS V6.2 (Alpha). Images being run on ther? > same version. High performance sort is not in use. I have nowc) > recreated on a standalone test machine.h > G > There are many large data structures, so the working set is high, butt0 > as far as I can see there are no quota issues. > G > After initialising 4 record sorts, and putting 5000 or 6000 in two ofe= > them (records sizes are 6 and 61) LIB$RELEASE_REC returns a. > SORT-E-OPENOUT error. G > It is made more difficult as I cannot recreate running interactively,a > nor in debug.  > D > I have played with the obvious quotas and WSEXTENT, as well as the# > number of work files to no avail.n >  > Any pointers anybody ?  9 Insure that PQL_DPGFLQUOTA is greater than PQL_DWSEXTENT.t   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:36:04 +0000 (UTC)h, From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)0 Subject: Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought. Message-ID: <c1laq4$9oa$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes in article <403D67F6.77B4A8E0@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> dated Wed, 25 Feb 2004 21:28:54 -0600: >"Keith A. Lewis" wrote: >> oL >> 1.  Run with the EXQUOTA privilege to determine for sure it's not a quota
 >> issue.  >hG >Please see the description of EXQUOTA in the doc. or the on-line help.cI >EXQUOTA has to do with disk quota *ONLY* - it is meaningless in terms ofc >process quotas.  ) You're right.  I withdraw the suggestion.k   From the security manual:o  ! A.11   EXQUOTA Privilege (Devour)y  I The EXQUOTA privilege allows the space taken by the user's files on given J disk volumes to exceed any usage quotas set for the user (as determined by UIC) on those volumes.  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 12:29:03 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)p6 Subject: Re: Sun Expands Program Aimed at HP Customers3 Message-ID: <wI5lQzOuzSvf@eisner.encompasserve.org>b  o In article <B2p%b.71108$RTW1.37249@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:t > I > Sun also said that more than 80 customers have taken advantage of Sun'shI > original HP Away program and moved to Sun's computers. Sun launched theoF > initial HP Away program in July 2003, aiming at HP (NYSE:HPQ - news)D > customers who use its AlphaTru64 computing platform, which HP will > ultimately phase out.s  E    Well I'd consider Solaris of HP-UX, but not as long as I can still@
    run Tru64.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:43:50 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>' Subject: Re: system directory confusion.8 Message-ID: <0scq30l6qs5b8or1osdpcnun1jn076l596@4ax.com>  F On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:16:30 -0600, Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote:     >k% >I do the same thing with sylogicals.u >  >n# >$ @sys$manager:sylogicals.template  >$!i >$!   start of my stuffh >$!o' >$ define/sys/exec opc$opa0_enable true.A >$ define /system /translation_attributes=terminal eve$keypad edtv. >$ @sys$sysdevice:[system_files]mount_my_disks
 >$       EXITo  H Um.... Sylogicals.com gets called even when startup_p1 = "MIN".  When it( might not be a good time to mount disks. --- jlsb0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:32:31 -0000n, From: rdd@rhiannon.rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)I Subject: Talon fax and DECvoice boards, audiotechs and talonqfax softwarea0 Message-ID: <103q8jvfinrvl11@corp.supernews.com>  A By chance, does anyone happen to know anything about a qbus boardgE manufactured by a company apparently called Talon that's some sort ofnE fax board?  A VAX that I acquired a couple of years ago came with onepE of these, a set of DECvoice boards and there's are also various filest@ scattered here and here with names like talonqfax.*, etc., but IA haven't figured out what does what yet.  It appears that this may.D somehow be connected with some "audiotechs" software that appears toB be for the DECvoice boards in this system; not sure how to get any@ of this to work, particularly with residential voice lines.  Any thoughts or ideas?     --  N Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: M All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &  O rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify suchoI http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.n   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 02:21:28 -0800* From: RaoulGough@yahoo.co.uk (Raoul Gough)+ Subject: Re: Unable to paste at LSE prompts<= Message-ID: <a3390f41.0402260221.7534afd8@posting.google.com>.  ~ "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message news:<403C0841.8C0E0C6D@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>... > Raoul Gough wrote: > > I > > When I try to paste something at an LSE prompt I get the message "Keya. > > INSERT_HERE has no definition at prompts". [snip] bF > If you're using a terminal program of any kind (DECterm, Reflection,9 > etc.), use the GUI's "select, copy-and-paste" features.>  E Well, that works of course, but I generally prefer using the keyboardf7 if possible, rather than having to switch to the mouse.   F Anyway, I take it from your suggestion that it just won't work in LSE?? Seems like a weird thing to disable deliberately, given that it  already works in EVE.g   -- o Raoul Gough.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 09:45:06 -0800. From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby)+ Subject: Re: Unable to paste at LSE promptsh< Message-ID: <224291b.0402260945.6c59c8fe@posting.google.com>  0 Yes, LSE is actively maintained (but not by me).  fC I've added a note into the internal LSE wish list to reference this< request.  F LSE is not built on EVE but rather on TPU. However, some of the source> in LSE is that from EVE many years ago. There have been recentC attempts to bring LSE upto more recent EVE sources so this may be aYD good time to address this. Also, LSE sometimes replaces EVE routines$ rather than building on top of them.   Martin Kirby   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 10:15:56 -0800 From: ohm62@hotmail.com (OHM)h+ Subject: Re: Unable to paste at LSE promptsD= Message-ID: <9d337b47.0402261015.27624f9d@posting.google.com>@  # It works using PLSE (portable LSE):,  " LSE> SET COMMAND LANGUAGE PORTABLE    C ... and then you can copy from buffers or from the command line ando% paste to the command line at will ...   C I vote for PLSE best programmer's editor of the year(s to come...;)f     -- OHM   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:15:43 -0800 3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>b% Subject: VMS license search/transfer?-. Message-ID: <403D1E8F.2060609@Flying-Disk.com>  = I just got an XP1000 which I *think* was originally sold withC< a VMS license.   The model number is E2F6W-A9.   The closest9 match I could find was in the Systems and Options Catalogg; for 10-Dec-1999, E2F6W-A4, which is for a CTO (Configure To29 Order) system with VMS.   Comparing the various CTO modelh; numbers, it appears the the "A" (in -A4) indicates VMS ("V"1< for Windows NT and "3" for Tru64 Unix).   I am assuming that/ the only difference is a minor model variation.a  @ Can anyone confirm this?   (Yes, I've searched the HP web site.)  A If this system *did* originally came with a VMS license, is there = any way it can be tracked down by the system serial number soa: I can pay the license transfer fee and get my own license?  = I would rather not pay the full price for the license.   It'se2 going to cost enough for the update service.   :-)  < I got the system through a surplus sales store, and they (or; the previous owner) had wiped the disk by installing an oldo; copy of Tru64.   Needless to say, they had no documentationt on this system.    Thanks,g Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 01:25:53 -0600 (CST)y From: sms@antinode.org% Subject: VMS license search/transfer? ) Message-ID: <04022601255381@antinode.org>h  3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>   ? > I just got an XP1000 which I *think* was originally sold witho8 > a VMS license.   The model number is E2F6W-A9.   [...]  E    My dead one also says "Model   - E2F6W - A9", and, knowing nothing F but the company which was its original owner, I'd bet that it was sold with Tru64, if anything.  C > If this system *did* originally came with a VMS license, is therer? > any way it can be tracked down by the system serial number som< > I can pay the license transfer fee and get my own license?  D    You can always call and ask.  With the serial numbers in hand.  I= can't remember which label had the one they wanted when I wasoE researching the warranty status.  (That was for the power supply thatoH failed before the brain-death, by the way.)  If yours has only one label3 with a serial number, that simplifies things a bit.r  > > I got the system through a surplus sales store, and they (or= > the previous owner) had wiped the disk by installing an old = > copy of Tru64.   Needless to say, they had no documentationi > on this system.(  G    If they're selling them for a few hundred dollars, grab one for me. vD I have 1.5GB of suitable memory just waiting for a more appreciative user.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org0    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547"   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:21:43 +0100t* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>I Subject: Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?n0 Message-ID: <403DC8B7.1F69A2F7@sture.homeip.net>   John Laird wrote:  > I > On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:55:54 +0000 (UTC), bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence- > Bleau) wrote:  > J > >I also just looked at the file SYS$HELP:FORRTL.RELEASE_NOTES, and found > >this: > >t8 > >        1.6 Changes and Problems Corrected in V7.0-1: > >...I > >              o  List-directed & G format now correctly format roundedd3 > >                 values during output conversionr > >r? > >Does this mean values rounded (as with NINT) before writing? J > >Or the rounding that naturally occurs when using, say, F and G formats? > N > Only a few binary values can be expressed exactly when formatted for output.M > Most will need to be rounded.  It sounds like there was a bug in one of the4; > format options (my guess would be list-directed, or "*").  > J > >And why didn't I find anything about it in the VMS 7.3-1 release notes? > >That's what really bugs me. > N > Language support and o/s versions are loosely connected.  One expects to getK > up-to-date rtls with new VMS releases.  However, it is not clear how muchs! > documentation you might expect.h > L > >Anyway, I think the next step from here is to restore the older RTL file,G > >once I learn which one I should restore, or all of them.  That won'toJ > >completely solve the problem, though, because after this the boss wouldL > >never trust another VMS or Fortran upgrade, not without a good reason why% > >the behavior was changed.  Thanks.a > / > Your boss would prefer bugs not to be fixed ?  >a  	 Lawrence,0  G I think the real answer here is to put the relevant figures through theRG desired calculations manually in order to determine which RTL is givingc the most accurate answer.   E If you decide the new behavious represents a bug, file a  bug report.i  D If not, you have the ammunition to persuade your boss and scientists that a bug has been fixed.    eJ > [I am gently poking fun.  But more seriously, you should not place greatD > faith in the last decimal point.  It is perfectly conceivable thatN > differences will appear using identical input on different platforms, or theG > compiler may optimise your code differently between releases yielding N > different answers, or if you re-ordered your input data that might change itL > too.  If you need significance in the 6th or 7th digit, then you shouldn't7 > be using 4-byte floats.  Switch to double precision.]  >     u   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:23:39 +0100l* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>" Subject: Re: WWW/DECnotes gateway?0 Message-ID: <403DC92B.51ABD564@sture.homeip.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > I > In article <c1ji8g06lt@enews2.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com writes:2G > > "Tillman, Brian (AGRE)" <Brian.Tillman@smiths-aerospace.com> wrote:- > >> healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:e > >mJ > >> > What gateways exist for making DECnotes conferences available via a > >> > webserver?^MB > >v: > >> I'm not sure how Encompasserve does it, but check out# > >> http://www.encompasserve.org/.I > >SP > > As near as I can tell they're using the one that Roland Kessi wrote for OSU, > 
 > Yes, it is.h > 2 > > though I've no clue as to where to get a copy, > E > I am sure you can get it from DECUServe.  Check out the conferencese > there on DECUServe.n >  > > and it appears that is is  > > read-only. > C > It is read-only, and there are _extensive_ discussions about thatC+ > issue in the DECUServe notes conferences.2 > P > > It looks like they also have a Java telnet client setup, which won't work if > > you're behind a firewall.- > 4 > Most DECUServe participation is via normal Telnet. >0   SSH also works fine as well.  . > ============== > I > Note that DECUServe and Encompasserve are two names for the same thing.e     --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.113 ************************s the marketing at least get the name right itsyH Tru64 NOT TRUE64 ;(    I'd be very surprised if VMS out shipped Tru64 or for that matter any unix . <<<i  F The reported market share of 4.8% I a few years back (2...3years). TheE last value I did see was near by OpenVMS. I think this was in case of D lot of promotion for this Unix and the well done TrueCluster (not as2 good as OpenVMSCluster but better then any other).&OYԊ4DXu3ǅ	 R~6.@4e~1yl[g*(!0[hXj$(Om@5)n:mc^&@[.v96R͓qt{2A}q<Ή &m:"nntsr3	`~
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