1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 27 Feb 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 114       Contents: Alpha Powered logo, Re: Bruce Ellis book OpenVMS Troubleshooting5 Re: Credit bureau communications software on OpenVMS? 5 Re: Credit bureau communications software on OpenVMS? ' dir/width=filename=xx, vms7.3-1 vs. 7.3  Re: Disk Merging- Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette  GatesSpeak by the bucket load . Getting to console mode on ES40 with graphics? Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: iSCSI and VMS ? : Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! Re: Leap year.# Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew..... # Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew..... ' Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought ' Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought ' Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought ' Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought - Re: Sun Expands Program Aimed at HP Customers P RE: Upgrading VMS on a system where hardware is newer than the    system disk OSP Upgrading VMS on a system where hardware is newer than the system disk OS supporP Re: Upgrading VMS on a system where hardware is newer than the system disk OS suP Re: Upgrading VMS on a system where hardware is newer than the system disk OS su/ Re: USA will self-exterminate within 100 years! / Re: USA will self-exterminate within 100 years!  VAX-11/725 - Can anyone help? ! Re: VAX-11/725 - Can anyone help? ! RE: VAX-11/725 - Can anyone help? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? @ Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?@ RE: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?@ RE: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?@ Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?@ Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this? Re: WWW/DECnotes gateway?  Re: WWW/DECnotes gateway?  Re: WWW/DECnotes gateway? ; Re: [MOTIF V1.3.1] DECterm not starting with Condensed Font   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 01:46:50 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Alpha Powered logo ) Message-ID: <403D962D.CA456BC3@istop.com>   # Stumbled on  http://lists.virus.org   6 Look at bottom of page for a nice Alpha Powered Logo.   L The site's HTTP responses only mention Apache. No hint of which OS they run.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 02:00:59 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 5 Subject: Re: Bruce Ellis book OpenVMS Troubleshooting H Message-ID: <vrc%b.3900$Yf.2120@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Richard B. Gilbert wrote: G > If we advertise, who will deliver on our commitments?   We sure can't  > count on HP!  I In a nutshell I guess that summarizes why HP doesn't advertise VMS - they J have no intention of delivering on committments so they don't make any (noF offense VMS Engineering - these comments are directed at the 'suits').  L The idea is to take money and place ads that HP ought to be placing to raiseK awareness of VMS in places where HP isn't doing it to and get the financial I community to start asking HP some really tough questions and get the Wall I Street tech analysts to start telling their pension fund clients to think I twice about investing in a company that squanders one of its best assets.   9 As in 'This ad brought to you by fed-up customers of HP'.    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2004 18:25:35 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) > Subject: Re: Credit bureau communications software on OpenVMS?3 Message-ID: <for+HI6Hp7R+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <cc5619f2.0402251600.50c90afd@posting.google.com>, jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes:E > Here's a longshot.  Does anyone have software for OpenVMS Alpha for 6 > communicating with credit bureaus over the internet?  H There is a credit bureau (probably on Wells Avenue) in Newton or NeedhamH Massachusetts (I am unclear where the boundary line is) that uses VMS in their own operations.    They might know.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:11:50 GMT 8 From: "Tom Simpson" <thomas.simpson1@nospam.comcast.net>> Subject: Re: Credit bureau communications software on OpenVMS?- Message-ID: <W2v%b.26277$AL.471395@attbi_s03>   J We do, but unfortunately it's a custom application and the consultant that+ wrote it was killed in the 9/11 disaster...    Regards, Tom   : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:for+HI6Hp7R+@eisner.encompasserve.org... ? > In article <cc5619f2.0402251600.50c90afd@posting.google.com>, ( jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes:G > > Here's a longshot.  Does anyone have software for OpenVMS Alpha for 8 > > communicating with credit bureaus over the internet? > J > There is a credit bureau (probably on Wells Avenue) in Newton or NeedhamJ > Massachusetts (I am unclear where the boundary line is) that uses VMS in > their own operations.  >  > They might know.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:40:16 -0600 1 From: "Grealy, Patrick" <PGrealy@sph.uth.tmc.edu> 0 Subject: dir/width=filename=xx, vms7.3-1 vs. 7.3L Message-ID: <EEC575D39D864C4BBAE8CD309982B0F2081718@sphnt33.sph.uth.tmc.edu>  D This is a minor annoyance but did mess up one of my procedures for =E displaying sorted directories. In switching to a new system, we are = 5 leaving DEC 7610/VMS 7.3 for HP DS10/VMS 7.3-1. The = G dir/width=3Dfilename=3Dxx on the new system results in a display with = H one extra character in the filename field compared to the old system.  =G The error appears to be in 7.3(and earlier?). The online help defines = H default as /width=3Dfilename=3D19 in 7.3 and 7.3-1. In 7.3-1, dir/size =H and dir/size/width=3Dfilename=3D19 produce identical results. However, =H in 7.3, dir/size=3Dwidth=3D19 produces a display one character shorter =I than dir/size. I could not find any documented bugs and wonder if other = 2 people experience the same results. Thanks, Pat G.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 00:17:17 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: Disk Merging 8 Message-ID: <cleq30132553ildio6imdugo830bdv8rgd@4ax.com>  I On 23 Feb 2004 14:45:52 -0800, dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com (Dave Baxter)  wrote:    B >(Q1.  Can anyone remind me what the console command is to force a  >Memory Dump on these systems??)   	^P  	>>>  CRASH <enter>   E >(Q2.  I realize that this isn't much information, but has anyone any + >idea what could cause this kind of hang??)   I Lots and lots of things (locks, full system (or audit server) disk), etc.   K I would suggest installing AMDS/AVAILMANAGER and setting up a non-clustered J server to manage the cluster.  This utility will allow you to troubleshoot! hung clusters in many situations.    > E >     The second issue is that all of my shadowsets are merging.    I E >have two nodes, only running at ~40%, however I only have two merges 7 >actually executing, the rest are waiting at 0% merged.  > 0 >(Q3.  Is there any way I can control merging??)9 >(Q4.  Is it possible to get this going on more drives??) 6 >(Q5.  Are there SYSGEN parameters I should look at??) > @ SYSGEN SHADOW_MAX_COPY (actually, use MODPARAMS.DAT and AUTOGEN)     --- jls 0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:28:12 -0800 3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> 6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette. Message-ID: <403D3D9C.9040303@Flying-Disk.com>   JF Mezei wrote: L > OK, sorry to be blunt, but it seems that any HP employees in the VMS groupN > need some education on nettiquette. I have , and continue to be surprised toL > see people who appear to be fairly well experienced and fairly senior make? > such mistakes when it comes to using the internet for emails.  > L > Would it be possible to sensitize all VMS-related employees to follow some# > simple rules when sending emails:   B I'm afraid it is a lost cause.   I have tried to educate them, notC only about the things you mention, but about sending Microsoft Word B documents, spreadsheets, and other attachments that cannot be readD on VMS systems.   It's not that they don't know what they are doing,A they actively don't *want* to change.   They claim that there are F only one or two people using VMS mail, so we are not worth the effort./ It's our fault that we are not running Windows.    Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 07:13:53 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette6 Message-ID: <00A2DF7D.800895A9@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  H In article <c1k1ev010ud@enews2.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com writes:5 >Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@flying-disk.com> wrote: G >> on VMS systems.   It's not that they don't know what they are doing, D >> they actively don't *want* to change.   They claim that there areI >> only one or two people using VMS mail, so we are not worth the effort. 2 >> It's our fault that we are not running Windows. > K ><sigh> Idiots!  One of the main uses of my VMS system is email.  I use the C >tty VMS Mail client daily, and the DECwindows client occasionally.  > G >There is no way in H*** I'm doing email on Windows if I don't have to. F >Unfortuantly at work I'm forced to use Outlook occasionally, and only@ >because people insist on sending Word attachments and the like.  K yahMAIL is often helpful for that kind of thing, if you have a webserver on  your VMS box.      -- Alan  --  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 01:00:20 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette0 Message-ID: <403E96A4.17B13CBA@sture.homeip.net>   R. D. Davis wrote: > 2 > In article <403DE7DE.263D5F85@sture.homeip.net>,6 >         Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes: > > JF Mezei wrote: O > >> 4-Why is it so difficult for people to configure their mail clients NOT to P > >> send HTML ? There are some that insisi on sending 2 copies, one in text and > [...] L > > Some corporate environments have their PCs locked down so that you can't* > > change settings. It's a pain but true. > E > That's no excuse.  They can always take a laptop computer in to the C > office running a VAX emulator, e.g. SIMH, under Linux or FreeBSD, F > running VMS, and swap some cables around, even if it means resortingC > to using wire-cutters and a crimping tool, etc., if things are so G > "locked down" that the cabling is glued to the PeeCees.  Even if they F > don't have VMS on their laptops, they can at least do what they wantH > with them, configuring to send reasonable e-mail, thumbing their noses7 > at being told to use those Dilbertized corporate PCs.  >   D Excuse me, but you are talking of somewhere which hasn't got a clue.  3 And no, swapping cables around is not the answer...    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 01:08:15 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette0 Message-ID: <403E987F.48D3B76B@sture.homeip.net>   PhilThayer wrote:  > d > Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message news:<403DE7DE.263D5F85@sture.homeip.net>... > > JF Mezei wrote:  > > >  > >  > H > The reason I don't mind seeing the entire text of a message is so thatC > I can remember the "conversation" that occurred.  Not everyone is  > young with good memories.   ! Old(ish), but a good memory here.   +   So when someone references something that F > was said previously in the "conversation" a person could go back andF > look at what is referenced and see what was said and in what context > it was said in.  > F > And when I look at some of the posts on newsgroups, I can understandG > why some people would include the entire "conversation" in a message. ; > Take this one for example.  It is really obvious from the H > confversation that some people are extremely Windows centric and wouldC > rather do everything on windows and forget the rest of the world. D > They talk about how "Windows is great for email and outlook is the > best email reader."  > 9 > At least that is what I remember of the conversation...  >   9 A brilliant sense of humour Sir/Madam/Ms (I forget which)    :-)    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 01:21:27 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette/ Message-ID: <403E9B97.BC9E2C8@sture.homeip.net>    Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: >  > healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > 7 > >Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@flying-disk.com> wrote:  > >  > > H > >>on VMS systems.   It's not that they don't know what they are doing,E > >>they actively don't *want* to change.   They claim that there are J > >>only one or two people using VMS mail, so we are not worth the effort.3 > >>It's our fault that we are not running Windows.  > >> > >> > > M > ><sigh> Idiots!  One of the main uses of my VMS system is email.  I use the E > >tty VMS Mail client daily, and the DECwindows client occasionally.  > >  > >  > > E > We are a media rich society and to expect people, be they inside or I > outside your company, customer, or vendor base to stay with paper-tape, C > teletypes, or punch cards because you don't feel e-mail should be H > anything other than vanilla ASCII text, is a hopeless battle that willA > only continue to frustrate yourself, and alienate everyone else % > attempting to communicate with you.  >   @ But the ***very real*** problem there is that 99% of the html or0 quoted/printable emails I receive are pure spam.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 02:04:52 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette0 Message-ID: <403EA5C4.69F12FF3@sture.homeip.net>   Martin Vorlaender wrote: > + > Wayne Sewell (wayne@tachysoft.com) wrote: I > > The mime utility included starting with 7.3 works well enough to pull G > > out attachments when people insist on sending them.  I find it most F > > useful for image files, which can be displayed directly on the vmsK > > system with xv or mozilla.  Admittedly, the fucking word documents have I > > to then be ftped to a billybox for viewing.  Fortunately, I don't get  > > many of those. > J > If it's just the text of the MS Word docs you're after (yes, some peopleJ > do write Word documents when simple ASCII would be enough :-( ), you can6 > extract it in most cases on VMS using antiword - seeA > http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/~huber/pds/antiword/antiword_vms.htm  > Thanks, Sepp!  >    Correction to that url:   @ http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/~huber/pds/antiword/antiword_vms.html     --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:08:27 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> 6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette' Message-ID: <403ED0CB.5050300@MMaz.com>    Paul Sture wrote:    >Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote:  >    >  >>healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: >> >>     >>7 >>>Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@flying-disk.com> wrote:  >>>  >>> 	 >>>        >>> H >>>>on VMS systems.   It's not that they don't know what they are doing,E >>>>they actively don't *want* to change.   They claim that there are J >>>>only one or two people using VMS mail, so we are not worth the effort.3 >>>>It's our fault that we are not running Windows.  >>>> >>>> >>>>         >>>>M >>><sigh> Idiots!  One of the main uses of my VMS system is email.  I use the E >>>tty VMS Mail client daily, and the DECwindows client occasionally.  >>>  >>>  >>> 	 >>>        >>> E >>We are a media rich society and to expect people, be they inside or I >>outside your company, customer, or vendor base to stay with paper-tape, C >>teletypes, or punch cards because you don't feel e-mail should be H >>anything other than vanilla ASCII text, is a hopeless battle that willA >>only continue to frustrate yourself, and alienate everyone else % >>attempting to communicate with you.  >> >>     >> > A >But the ***very real*** problem there is that 99% of the html or 1 >quoted/printable emails I receive are pure spam.  >  >    > F Then that being the case, I would say that your anti-spam systems are I very infective and in our case, I would say the inverse is true and that  G about 80% of our spam messages that do leak through, are text; Russian   seems very popular lately...   Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 14:16:47 -0800' From: doug_mentohl@yahoo.co.uk (Daeron) & Subject: GatesSpeak by the bucket load= Message-ID: <da46811d.0402261416.4cfa11c8@posting.google.com>   = Remarks by Bill Gates, Chairman and Chief Software Architect,  Microsoft Corporation  RSA Conference 2004 ! San Francisco, Calif. Feb 24 2004   @ "Microsoft was founded with a vision that software could do some amazing things"   = "I'm going to give you an update. It's not something that's a @ completed work, because not only Microsoft but everybody in thisF industry has a lot we need to do before we get to the point where thisE is not what stands at the top of the list of what would hold us back"   A "We have people who are connecting machines to all these wireless D networks, and the wireless network is trying to be made secure, even9 though they're not controlled by a central IT department"   E "it's very hard for people to plan fo. Knowing exactly what has to be $ done, that's been far too difficult"  E " I'm very optimistic about this, even though there are many years of  work ahead of us"   C "there is a lot of work done on security by experts who are totally  benign"   F "the maturity that we're getting in terms of the systems, the updates,A the methodologies, these are exactly what we need to take care of  these other threat models"  D "And so it's the dollar loss that comes in -- that gain level or theF national interest piece -- that we can get to by making sure that noneD of these types of people can get in and attack these systems. And soF the learning curve is being driven forward very rapidly by the visible portion of this activity"   C "Now, our approach, of course, has two main buckets: the work we're A doing at the technical level, both on our own and around industry B standards, and then the work we're doing in terms of education and1 awareness and working with governmental entities"   C "A lot of the dollars are going into those technical buckets. Those C technical buckets are very important, and I'm very optimistic about  them"   F "but we'll never get away from the need to have both of these pillars,> to be working with customers, setting up Web sites, setting upB auditing tools that can make things easy for them, and raising theB level of awareness of these issues so that somebody can go through* exactly the steps to secure their systems.  ; "There are a lot of architectural principles. We talk about ? SD-cubed-plus-C; that's secure by design, that's security-aware 	 features"   A "Clearly, there's more to do, but that is one of the metrics that 2 shows us that we're definitely on the right track"  E "the tactics we go through to make sure that all of those things come : together for those systems vary according to the audience"  C "If somebody is sending around a mail thing and they're clicking on  executable files"   D "The idea that you can look at that machine before it comes onto the  network, see if it's up to date"  F "As soon as we got good enough to handle that in an auditable, totallyF predictable way, people saw this as the software that would solve that problem"  C "we'll get even the corporate applications to get out there and not F require any privilege escalation to either install that application or use that application"   F "An area of particular innovation is this idea of scanning source codeE and finding areas that might be security vulnerabilities, things like F checking the size of the buffer, checking the size of an on-stack data
 structure"  C "Things come in across the network, using open ports that are there  for benign reasons"   @ "There are attacks through e-mail attachments and Web downloads"  4 "I want to talk about spam. Spam is both a nuisance"  E "So we're putting out, as an industry proposal this week what we call A caller ID for e-mail. And it's a very specific technical proposal ? about how you can make sure that the domain is authentic. We've E actually taken *our* we have some *patents* around this, we're saying B are *royalty* *free*, available for everyone to use, the ones thatC relate to the fundamentals of this, and so we're talking with other E ISPs and mail providers, and we believe that by this summer, with the / *right* *agreements*, we can put this in place"   < "When I meet with developers, one of the key messages is theF opportunity created by the Web services standard. You've probably seenE the momentum building behind these, the acceptance of XML as the rich  data standard"  E "what WS Security does is it creates a protocol-based approach that's * not subject to spoofing or replay attacks"  A Windows is certified at what's called EAL level 4, and of all the 7 popular operating systems, that is the highest level of  certification."   A "hardware level things to verify that the operating system you're * running, that nobody's tampered with that"  > "making sure that, at the OS level, secrets can be maintained"  E "Anyway, the recent advance is that the offline scenario was one that E required innovation on both sides, us working with RSA to understand, F okay, how do you get the information onto the machine so that it stillF can be used but used in a secure way when the network is not there and
 available"  E "Microsoft Research has done so many different things in the security E area I had to pick which one I thought would be very interesting, and > what I picked is a really neat piece of work called the Tamper Resistant ID Card"  = http://www.microsoft.com/billgates/speeches/2004/02-24rsa.asp    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 15:24:32 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) 7 Subject: Getting to console mode on ES40 with graphics? - Message-ID: <Ohmx1BB9eaoE@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>   9 I have an ES40 with a graphics console running VMS 7.3-1.   > I had a situation yesterday where the system "froze" ( dropped= out of the cluster but didn't halt or reboot ). If it happens > again I want to force a crash dump to help diagnose the issue.  ? The problem I have is that I can't figure out how to get to the > console prompt on the graphics screen/keyboard ( DecWindows isB running on there ). I thought CTRL/F2 was supposed to do that, but' nothing happens with that key sequence.   A I guess I have an option of switching to a serial console, but it D seems there must be a way to get the graphics to console mode - what is the magic incantation?    Thanks in advance.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 00:14:59 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon( Message-ID: <403D80AD.A1C48C8@istop.com>  	 Question:   0 Intel only annoucnedf Xeons at 64 bits , right ?! Aren't Xeons limited to servers ?   M Will Intel continue to develop 32 bit 8086s for desktops ?  How long can they > continue this when AMD will have 64 bit all across the range ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 00:21:13 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: iSCSI and VMS ?8 Message-ID: <t2fq305b550j62sv9f5ooksu578i6m0bi5@4ax.com>  0 On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 03:41:34 GMT, Michael Austin0 <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> wrote:    J >If you use fibre channel and SAN's. Brocade, Cisco and McDATA all have a I >blade for their director-class switches that have iSCSI ports available.  > J >Brocade has a stand-alone SAN "router" that will do the same thing.  So, E >using these types of setups, OpenVMS does not need to have anything  J >directly attached that does iSCSI for it to work - according to Brocade, % >CISCO and McDATA.  Just use the SAN.  > D >I have a demo of this device later this week.. although we had not 6 >intended on looking at the iSCSI piece of the device. >     / If you can affort SAN, why are you doing ISCSI?    --- jls 0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:26:04 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! 0 Message-ID: <wDs%b.1184$CG.424@news.cpqcorp.net>   Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote: 9 > Another example? Tru64 is the *only* real 64 bit Unix.    * What makes something a "real" 64 bit Unix?  
 rick jones --  B firebug n, the idiot who tosses a lit cigarette out his car windowF these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:37:57 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! % Message-ID: <403E5925.40002@MMaz.com>    Rick Jones wrote:     >Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote: >    > 9 >>Another example? Tru64 is the *only* real 64 bit Unix.   >>     >> > + >What makes something a "real" 64 bit Unix?  >  >    > 2 Probably the same thing that make OpenVMS, open...   Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 00:44:12 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> Subject: Re: Leap year. 0 Message-ID: <403E92DC.568D59E5@sture.homeip.net>   Stanley F. Quayle wrote: > . > On 25 Feb 2004 at 18:36, Leigh Bowden wrote:H > > Are there any issues with the 2004 leap year. I've not heard of any. > B > Check comp.risks about mid-March.  There are always several each"                          ^^^^^^^^^! > year.  Not on VMS, of course...  >      Extremely funny. Thanks.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 15:51:49 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski), Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0402261551.17a19a8e@posting.google.com>   t "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<P8p%b.71251$RTW1.21746@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>... >  > Stay TunedN > Think HP's Enterprise road maps for business-critical systems are confusing?L > Wait until you read about HP's strategies for "industry-standard" systems.0 > That's in our next Reality Check, coming soon. >  > -------------  > L > I wonder if Sun's shill, Rick Whittington of American Technology Research,# > got paid by Sun to do his 'study.  > F > Still, you have to admire Sun....they go the distance to maket theirI > products and services, and for the most part they do it effectively.And A > targetting your competitors customers is just one part of that.   = they forgot to mention that with slowaris you get to join the C patch of the week club, and that its cluster TCO stinks compared to @ OpenVMS ... but I guess those are only minor things to consider?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:53:17 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>, Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....) Message-ID: <403E94F9.E835B1A2@istop.com>    Bob Ceculski wrote: ? > they forgot to mention that with slowaris you get to join the  > patch of the week club,   N No offense, but when you look at recent VMS patch history, VMS isn't exactly a> role model anymore, especially with respect to TCPIP Services.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 21:28:54 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>0 Subject: Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought6 Message-ID: <403D67F6.77B4A8E0@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   "Keith A. Lewis" wrote:  > K > 1.  Run with the EXQUOTA privilege to determine for sure it's not a quota 	 > issue.    F Please see the description of EXQUOTA in the doc. or the on-line help.H EXQUOTA has to do with disk quota *ONLY* - it is meaningless in terms of process quotas.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 17:47:04 -08000 From: chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk (Chris Townley)0 Subject: Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought= Message-ID: <93b50805.0402261747.7469466b@posting.google.com>   v koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<+R4HsxlYEexH@eisner.encompasserve.org>...r > In article <93b50805.0402251036.5c53d5cb@posting.google.com>, chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk (Chris Townley) writes:I > > After initialising 4 record sorts, and putting 5000 or 6000 in two of ? > > them (records sizes are 6 and 61) LIB$RELEASE_REC returns a  > > SORT-E-OPENOUT error. I > > It is made more difficult as I cannot recreate running interactively,  > > nor in debug.  > >  > E >    OPENOUT generaly has to do with opening output files.  There's a D >    very good chance that your program is relying on something suchF >    as a process logical name that the detached process isn't seeing. > C >    What is the full spec of the sort output file?  Check all it's C >    pieces to see if any are logical names and what table they are  >    defined in.  E There are no explicit output files - this is a records sort. That was $ why I was looking at the work files.   --   Chris    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 17:58:29 -08000 From: chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk (Chris Townley)0 Subject: Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought= Message-ID: <93b50805.0402261758.457bd05a@posting.google.com>   M mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com wrote in message news:<AFDpBicHotQ9@cpva.saic.com>... ? > In article <93b50805.0402251036.5c53d5cb@posting.google.com>, 5 >  chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk (Chris Townley) writes: F > > I have an issue with SOR routines in a DEC Basic program, run as a= > > detached process using SYS$CREPRC. This is BASIC V1.3-000 G > > compiled/linked under OpenVMS V6.2 (Alpha). Images being run on the A > > same version. High performance sort is not in use. I have now + > > recreated on a standalone test machine.  > > I > > There are many large data structures, so the working set is high, but 2 > > as far as I can see there are no quota issues. > > I > > After initialising 4 record sorts, and putting 5000 or 6000 in two of ? > > them (records sizes are 6 and 61) LIB$RELEASE_REC returns a  > > SORT-E-OPENOUT error. I > > It is made more difficult as I cannot recreate running interactively,  > > nor in debug.  > > F > > I have played with the obvious quotas and WSEXTENT, as well as the% > > number of work files to no avail.F > >  > > Any pointers anybody ? > ; > Insure that PQL_DPGFLQUOTA is greater than PQL_DWSEXTENT.O    B that is interesting - the manual suggests reducing working set for high performance sort.D WSEXTENT is, as you suggest, picked up from PQL_MWSEXTENT, currentlyE 66000 whereas PGFLQUO is set from $CREPRC at 50000 (PQL min is lower)eE However I tried dropping PQL_MWSEXTENT et al to 10000 (which I saw iteE pick up) but this had no effect, neither in the error, nor the numbere< of records it had written into the two sorts when it failed.  E Still cant see the logic behind the OPENOUT error, unless it is to do D with workfiles. Lost access to the test machine today, so I will tryA setting some specific logicals for these where I can track them -n) problem is it only takes a few seconds...E  C Unless anyone with VMS internals knowledge can point me to what the  error means.   -- p Chris    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 22:55:01 -0800# From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley)e0 Subject: Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought= Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0402262255.1072fa82@posting.google.com>r  u chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk (Chris Townley) wrote in message news:<93b50805.0402251036.5c53d5cb@posting.google.com>...eD > I have an issue with SOR routines in a DEC Basic program, run as a; > detached process using SYS$CREPRC. This is BASIC V1.3-000nE > compiled/linked under OpenVMS V6.2 (Alpha). Images being run on thed? > same version. High performance sort is not in use. I have nowO) > recreated on a standalone test machine.1 > G > There are many large data structures, so the working set is high, butn0 > as far as I can see there are no quota issues. > G > After initialising 4 record sorts, and putting 5000 or 6000 in two ofh= > them (records sizes are 6 and 61) LIB$RELEASE_REC returns ab > SORT-E-OPENOUT error.iG > It is made more difficult as I cannot recreate running interactively,c > nor in debug.i > D > I have played with the obvious quotas and WSEXTENT, as well as the# > number of work files to no avail.r >  > Any pointers anybody ?C Remember that detached processes inherit process quotas from sysgent@ defaults (in sysgen do a show /pql) , not from the DEFAULT user.H Does your $creprc include a list of quota descriptors to override these? Phil* ps. I did mean PGFLQUO earlier not PLFLQUO   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 15:54:57 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: Sun Expands Program Aimed at HP Customers= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0402261554.31fea32d@posting.google.com>-  t "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<B2p%b.71108$RTW1.37249@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...1 > Sun Micro Expands Program Aimed at HP Customersm > Wed Feb 25,12:02 AM ET >   B they are tied to the x86 boat anchor that will eventually sink ...> you are selling out the Alpha team way short on itanium ... ifB anyone can make a pig fly, the alpha team can ... I have a feeling? many are going to eat their words about itanium when it becomesj EV8-9 like ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:16:49 +11000/ From: Malcolm Wade <Malcolm.Wade@bikerider.com>lY Subject: RE: Upgrading VMS on a system where hardware is newer than the    system disk OSoC Message-ID: <200402262216.i1QMGnk25666@mail023.syd.optusnet.com.au>v   Rich,S  R Been there done that exactly as you said.  Had a similar situation with an AS2100 N and a new DS25.  V7.2-2 OS which I wanted to clone for a new DS25 test system  running V7.3-1.     M Image backed up the old V7.2-2 system pack, restored the drive via a network eN connection, then booted the DS25 off the V7.3-1 CD and told it to upgrade the 8 restored system disk.  No problems; worked like a charm.   Cheers,t Malcolmn   >-----Original Message----- 5 >From: jordan@ccs4vms.com [mailto:jordan@ccs4vms.com]r' >Sent: Friday, 27 February 2004 9:07 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComD >Subject: Upgrading VMS on a system where hardware is newer than the >system disk OS supports >gF >Here's a new one for us.  I've never had this come up, and I can't doD >a test run due to lack of hardware.  We have a customer with a DS10A >running V7.2-1.  They're going to upgrade to a DS15, which has aoE >minimum VMS requirement of V7.3-1 (plus TIMA).  There is a miniscule. >downtime window.s >wC >Since doing a V7.2-1 upgrade to V7.3-1 or newer on the DS10 is nottC >feasible due to time, I'm wondering if the following is supported.n >wD >Image backup the DS10 disks to tape, then restore on the DS15 disksE >using the CD boot environment.  We won't try to boot the DS15 on the- >V7.2-1 system disk. > G >Boot the DS15 with the V7.3-1 (or -2) CD and upgrade the V7.2-1 systemo0 >disk.  Bring up a happy DS15 with supported OS. >mG >In other words are there any issues upgrading a VMS system disk from aiB >version not supported on the hardware being used for the upgrade,F >since we are obviously using a supported version to boot and actually >perform the upgrade?a >n? >Seems like there should be no problem, but if anyone knows I'dn >appreciate hearing about it.a >c >Rich Jordan >CCS   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 14:07:13 -0800& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)Y Subject: Upgrading VMS on a system where hardware is newer than the system disk OS support= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0402261407.4d6ebda8@posting.google.com>e  E Here's a new one for us.  I've never had this come up, and I can't dolC a test run due to lack of hardware.  We have a customer with a DS10k@ running V7.2-1.  They're going to upgrade to a DS15, which has aD minimum VMS requirement of V7.3-1 (plus TIMA).  There is a miniscule downtime window.  B Since doing a V7.2-1 upgrade to V7.3-1 or newer on the DS10 is notB feasible due to time, I'm wondering if the following is supported.  C Image backup the DS10 disks to tape, then restore on the DS15 disks.D using the CD boot environment.  We won't try to boot the DS15 on the V7.2-1 system disk.h  F Boot the DS15 with the V7.3-1 (or -2) CD and upgrade the V7.2-1 system/ disk.  Bring up a happy DS15 with supported OS.o  F In other words are there any issues upgrading a VMS system disk from aA version not supported on the hardware being used for the upgrade,7E since we are obviously using a supported version to boot and actuallyp perform the upgrade?  > Seems like there should be no problem, but if anyone knows I'd appreciate hearing about it.   Rich Jordand CCSf   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:36:05 +0100r, From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl>Y Subject: Re: Upgrading VMS on a system where hardware is newer than the system disk OS su : Message-ID: <c1lsbt$1k0dg0$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>  5 "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com> schreef in bericht,7 news:cc5619f2.0402261407.4d6ebda8@posting.google.com... G > Here's a new one for us.  I've never had this come up, and I can't dorE > a test run due to lack of hardware.  We have a customer with a DS10aB > running V7.2-1.  They're going to upgrade to a DS15, which has aF > minimum VMS requirement of V7.3-1 (plus TIMA).  There is a miniscule > downtime window. >eD > Since doing a V7.2-1 upgrade to V7.3-1 or newer on the DS10 is notD > feasible due to time, I'm wondering if the following is supported. > E > Image backup the DS10 disks to tape, then restore on the DS15 disks F > using the CD boot environment.  We won't try to boot the DS15 on the > V7.2-1 system disk.  >nH > Boot the DS15 with the V7.3-1 (or -2) CD and upgrade the V7.2-1 system1 > disk.  Bring up a happy DS15 with supported OS.n >aH > In other words are there any issues upgrading a VMS system disk from aC > version not supported on the hardware being used for the upgrade, G > since we are obviously using a supported version to boot and actually  > perform the upgrade? >s@ > Seems like there should be no problem, but if anyone knows I'd > appreciate hearing about it. > 
 > Rich Jordan. > CCSr  L VMS no longer reboots during an upgrade session (which, IIRC, it used to do)L so that is no issue. Your only problem could be is the previous, unsupportedG VMS version for the new hardware cannot upgrade directly to a supportedsJ version. In this case, a 7.2-1 to 7.3-1 upgrade is allowed. Without having8 actually done this before, I'd do this blindly with VMS.   Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:59:03 -0500 2 From: "Chris Moore" <chrismichael000@sympatico.ca>Y Subject: Re: Upgrading VMS on a system where hardware is newer than the system disk OS sus; Message-ID: <0Ru%b.19772$253.1131561@news20.bellglobal.com>m  3 "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com> wrote in messagei7 news:cc5619f2.0402261407.4d6ebda8@posting.google.com...eG > Here's a new one for us.  I've never had this come up, and I can't docE > a test run due to lack of hardware.  We have a customer with a DS10tB > running V7.2-1.  They're going to upgrade to a DS15, which has aF > minimum VMS requirement of V7.3-1 (plus TIMA).  There is a miniscule > downtime window. > D > Since doing a V7.2-1 upgrade to V7.3-1 or newer on the DS10 is notD > feasible due to time, I'm wondering if the following is supported. >-E > Image backup the DS10 disks to tape, then restore on the DS15 disksNF > using the CD boot environment.  We won't try to boot the DS15 on the > V7.2-1 system disk.t >uH > Boot the DS15 with the V7.3-1 (or -2) CD and upgrade the V7.2-1 system1 > disk.  Bring up a happy DS15 with supported OS.c >wH > In other words are there any issues upgrading a VMS system disk from aC > version not supported on the hardware being used for the upgrade,eG > since we are obviously using a supported version to boot and actuallyn > perform the upgrade? >a@ > Seems like there should be no problem, but if anyone knows I'd > appreciate hearing about it. > 
 > Rich Jordan  > CCSn  F If it were me (glad it's not), I'd do the upgrade on the DS10 and thenH either swap the disk or take a post-upgrade image and restore to the 15.  K But your way could easily be tested.  Cut an on-line image from the 10, andtG try it ahead of time on the 15, off the network.  If it doesn't go, I'do- expect it to be fairly obvious on first boot.n   (2 cents worth)i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:16:07 -0500 % From: "repatch" <repatch42@yahoo.com>=8 Subject: Re: USA will self-exterminate within 100 years!( Message-ID: <gbqvg1-vrq.ln1@host.domain>  D And you REALLY had to post the WHOLE thing to say that one line????? Plonk...  - "Nobody" <nobody@nobody.org> wrote in messagee4 news:2ha%b.16111$253.970600@news20.bellglobal.com... > stop ur flooding and abuse.=   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 02:29:38 GMT0+ From: "Jim Davis Sr." <jimsr31@notmail.com>s8 Subject: Re: USA will self-exterminate within 100 years!A Message-ID: <mSc%b.1136$%D6.444223629@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>   7 You Too????  Reposting 16k of shit for a 3 line reply??r   <PLONK>t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:27:51 -0500o0 From: "Brian Tillman" <Tillman@sparkingwire.com>& Subject: VAX-11/725 - Can anyone help?. Message-ID: <01289365.C22236@sparkingwire.com>  J I'm trying to fix a VAX-11/725.  Yesterday there was a power glitch and itI went down.  The RC25 disk fault light comes on right away and the two redbK power lights (one says "DC On" and I don't remember the label on the other,tK but it's right next to it) do not light.  At first I thought it was a power K supply, but I swapped that with one I believe is good from another 725.  ItuI made no difference.  I also swapped out the RC25 with a known-good drive.o8 No change.  Can anyone suggest soething else to look at? --  
 Brian Tillmano   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:36:39 -0700i+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>n* Subject: Re: VAX-11/725 - Can anyone help?% Message-ID: <403E58D7.20306@MMaz.com>t   Brian Tillman wrote:  K >I'm trying to fix a VAX-11/725.  Yesterday there was a power glitch and itwJ >went down.  The RC25 disk fault light comes on right away and the two redL >power lights (one says "DC On" and I don't remember the label on the other,L >but it's right next to it) do not light.  At first I thought it was a powerL >supply, but I swapped that with one I believe is good from another 725.  ItJ >made no difference.  I also swapped out the RC25 with a known-good drive.9 >No change.  Can anyone suggest soething else to look at?n >  i >tI he he, the last time I had one of these was when Digital had a sale back  A around 1984 at a Decus Symposia, it was novel then but by todays lG standards, wow, why are you even messing with it?  A museum piece?  As gG for the RC25's, my guess is that the heads touched down on the platter kF during your power glitch but as to why the second drive doesn't work, C don't know unless it took out the controller or something else.  I o" gather you've reseated everything?     Barryl   --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:46:27 -0700 B From: "Tillman, Brian (AGRE)" <Brian.Tillman@smiths-aerospace.com>* Subject: RE: VAX-11/725 - Can anyone help?O Message-ID: <11721EF39C7D7F47A55447158274CAF7AF9FF2@cossmgmbx01.email.corp.tld>    Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote:  ( > wow, why are you even messing with it?  G Because we use it every day.  It's been a reliable machine for 20 yearsR0 and still does exactly what it's supposed to do.  ? > As for the RC25's, my guess is that the heads touched down onr& > the platter during your power glitch  D I don't think so.  I opened the disk in a clean room (I've done thisF before and have never damaged a disk) and there has been no head crash that I can see.v  A > don't know unless it took out the controller or something else.e  B I intend to try replacing that next, but I wouldn't expect that to interfere with the DC power. --=0DW Brian Tillman        =0D Smiths Aerospace 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS 1B3 Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991 > Brian.Tillman is the name, smiths-aerospace.com is the domain.  * ******************************************G The information contained in, or attached to, this e-mail, may contain=aD  confidential information and is intended solely for the use of the=G  individual or entity to whom they are addressed and may be subject to=tH  legal privilege.  If you have received this e-mail in error you should=H  notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail, delete the message from=L  your system and notify your system manager.  Please do not copy it for any=F  purpose, or disclose its contents to any other person.  The views or=I  opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do= G  not necessarily represent those of the company.  The recipient should=gI  check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses.  The=iA  company accepts no liability for any damage caused, directly or=s4  indirectly, by any virus transmitted in this email.* ******************************************   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Feb 2004 02:34:17 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?: Message-ID: <c1mab9$1knlvl$2@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  . In article <403E9416.9080306@flying-disk.com>,6 	Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes: > healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:7 >> Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@flying-disk.com> wrote:e > B >> > hobbyist license.   However, it now appears that the hobbyist6 >> > license program has been abolished.   Madi wrote: > E >> > > Digital/Compaq/HP has never distinguished between business andoF >> > > hobbyist, so the license that transfers with the system, is theH >> > > only type available for that particular system.  There is no such( >> > > thing as a free hobbyist license. > O >> I'm really hoping this is the case of a clueless HP employee, however, givennN >> how unfriendly HP is to Hobbyists, it wouldn't suprise me if this is true.  > E > Since this is the official HP contact/spokesperson, I don't want to B > second-guess him.   He is obviously much better connected to the4 > policy makers than the troops in the trenches are. > G > I am very sad about this.   I wonder how it affects hobbyist licensesw  > that have already been issued? >   A My guess would be that they will expire when their year is up andh@ new ones will cease to be available.  Perhaps someone should ask9 Montagar if they have been told to stop issuing licenses.    bill   -- fJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:06:54 -0800a3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>i4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?. Message-ID: <403EB44E.2010501@Flying-Disk.com>   Mike Naime wrote:o  I > I think that as long as you have people like John Wisnewski working foreJ > Compaq/HP he will continue to promote the hobbiest licenses from within.K > When John visited our site, one of our luncheon discussions was all about D > the hobbiest conventions and related groups that he was active in.  D I don't, for a single moment, doubt the sincerity of John's efforts.E He is a wonderful, intelligent, dedicated person with high standards.l> But it appears that this has come from a high level within HP.  @ I think that since HP has not been able to kill VMS with lack of> advertising, they decided to attack its least powerful support base: the hobbyists.   Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 03:51:50 GMT00 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?/ Message-ID: <q9z%b.131939$uV3.648627@attbi_s51>g   Alan Frisbie wrote:B   (snip)  F > I don't, for a single moment, doubt the sincerity of John's efforts.G > He is a wonderful, intelligent, dedicated person with high standards.d@ > But it appears that this has come from a high level within HP.  B > I think that since HP has not been able to kill VMS with lack of@ > advertising, they decided to attack its least powerful support > base: the hobbyists.  9 Well, as of a few minutes ago both the license issuer and 9 software ordering process are still working.  It acceptede/ my PayPal payment, so they better send the CDs!w  0 Also, I note that the previous message said that< DEC/Compaq/HP did not have a hobbyist program, while we know! that at least DEC and Compaq did.e   -- glen    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 03:50:37 -0000o, From: rdd@rhiannon.rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?0 Message-ID: <103tfkdlj4i9q65@corp.supernews.com>  . In article <403EB44E.2010501@flying-disk.com>,6 	Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes: > Mike Naime wrote:gF > I don't, for a single moment, doubt the sincerity of John's efforts.G > He is a wonderful, intelligent, dedicated person with high standards.   E Therein lies the problem.  Qualities such as "wonderful, intelligent, C dedicated and high standards" don't "fit in" at the "new HP" run bynE the Meaningless Bimbo Attrocity, who can talk for extended periods ofs& time without saying anything sensible.  @ > But it appears that this has come from a high level within HP.  
 That figures.c  B > I think that since HP has not been able to kill VMS with lack of@ > advertising, they decided to attack its least powerful support > base: the hobbyists.  E Their attack aimed at hobbyists will never work as they intend it to.hA HP might cancle the licenses, but they'll not keep hobbyists from B using VMS, since there exists a workaround to bypass the licensingC requirement.  The way I see it, if one pays for the hardware and attD least one version of VMS, one has a right to keep using what one hasD paid for indefinitely.  Licenses that expire are not only unethical,B but probably could be proven to be illegal as well if someone withB enough money for enough lawyers could pay to have the case argued.@ Besides, that would only result in an added incentive to work on? producing a Free clone of VMS, complete with source code (e.g., 	 FreeVMS).a   --  N Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: M All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & eO rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify suchcI http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.e   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Feb 2004 03:45:52 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.comn4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?, Message-ID: <c1mehg017m3@enews1.newsguy.com>  4 Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@flying-disk.com> wrote:@ > But it appears that this has come from a high level within HP.  B > I think that since HP has not been able to kill VMS with lack of@ > advertising, they decided to attack its least powerful support > base: the hobbyists.  I I don't know, I tend to think it as being a case of the person isn't evennF aware that the program exists.  That is the way I read the comment you posted.    			Zanep   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:12:37 -0800m3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> 4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?. Message-ID: <403EC3B5.3020009@Flying-Disk.com>   glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: > Alan Frisbie wrote:f  ; > Well, as of a few minutes ago both the license issuer andm; > software ordering process are still working.  It acceptedp1 > my PayPal payment, so they better send the CDs!f  ? Just like 321 Studios got swamped with orders immediately afteru" the judge issued his ruling!   :-)  2 > Also, I note that the previous message said that> > DEC/Compaq/HP did not have a hobbyist program, while we know# > that at least DEC and Compaq did.w   I see two possibilities here:s  > 1. HP has the most clueless person on the face of the earth as?     their license spokesperson.   It would be simply staggeringt=     beyond belief that the person who is supposed to have alloA     the answers about VMS licensing would not know about the mostsB     successful (and popular) hobbyist license program ever.   This?     is the person who is supposed to *help* people with licenset     questions and issues.f  , 2. They are engaging in revisionist history.   Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:35:41 -0800k3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>i4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?. Message-ID: <403EC91D.8080702@Flying-Disk.com>   healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:  D > > I think that since HP has not been able to kill VMS with lack ofB > > advertising, they decided to attack its least powerful support > > base: the hobbyists.  K > I don't know, I tend to think it as being a case of the person isn't eventH > aware that the program exists.  That is the way I read the comment you	 > posted.c  ; I sincerely *hope* that that is the case.   But this is the 9 official spokesperson for licensing questions.   I cannot4< conceive that a person in this position would not be totally: familiar with all aspects of the hobbyist license program.  < On the other hand, perhaps he was deliberatly lying to me in< an effort to get me to spend $2400 for the VMS base license.  G It wouldn't be the first time I've encountered an ethics problem at HP.o   Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:31:10 +0000 (UTC)o* From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)I Subject: Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?n0 Message-ID: <c1ll2e$q33$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>  h In article <miaq309io3pun7u8g41u3rto2td1guirlk@4ax.com>, John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> writes: [snip] >h. >Your boss would prefer bugs not to be fixed ? >aI >[I am gently poking fun.  But more seriously, you should not place great C >faith in the last decimal point.  It is perfectly conceivable thataM >differences will appear using identical input on different platforms, or the F >compiler may optimize your code differently between releases yieldingM >different answers, or if you re-ordered your input data that might change it  >too.i  K I can agree with all of that, John, except in my case: a) the platforms aretK identical, b) the release of the compiler is identical, and c) the orderingo of the input data is identical.h  E >If you need significance in the 6th or 7th digit, then you shouldn't-6 >be using 4-byte floats.  Switch to double precision.]  G Again, in my case, the difference sometimes shows up in the 3rd decimalt place.   Now, on to more info.  a  + Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote:hH >I think the real answer here is to put the relevant figures through theH >desired calculations manually in order to determine which RTL is giving >the most accurate answer.  I I'm ahead of you there, I think.  I modified HOUR_AVERAGE to additionally"J write an output line of the same values with a very large number of digitsI to ensure they don't get rounded for the simple arithmetic I'm doing.  InfF *each case* of a line where there's a difference, the higher precision1 output showed that the next lower digit is a "5".s  H So which is more accurate?  It depends on how one defines "rounding".  II really don't care which is more accurate; I just want it to be consistentl across VMS upgrades.  I Anyway, that clinches it: the problem I'm seeing can be totally explained K by a change in the rounding behavior of the floating-to-text routines.  ThetK only thing that prevents me from declaring victory is a statement somewhere0( that those routines actually did change.  K I did another test, too.  I copied HOUR_AVERAGE onto another system that issA still running VMS 7.1-2, copied over the input data file, and raneE HOUR_AVERAGE.  It produced results identical with the Dec 18 run, but D different from the Feb 24 run.  In particular, the programs behaviorI *reverted* to what it was on Dec 18 under these conditions.  I think thatn& just about proves it's an RTL problem.  G I have another system we use as a testbed, umtof2, which is running VMS K V7.3-2.  This, presumably, will have in it updates to LIBRTL et al, all the7I bug fixes one would want.  HOUR_AVERAGE exhibited the same behavior theresF as on the 7.3-1 system, which is to say different from the Dec 18 run, which was under VMS 7.1-2.  J I tried copying LIBRTL.EXE from another 7.1-2 system onto umtof2, the testH system.  I had to reinstall LIBRTL, but the reinstall failed, and thingsH started going awry.  I rebooted umtof2, but it would not even reboot; itE hung during boot!  not even a conversation minimum boot allowed it to K proceed.  I booted VMS from a distribution cd, mounted the system disk, andPF manually deleted the older (but higher version numbered) LIBRTL file.  umtof2 now boots okay.  E So, please, don't anyone suggest copying the old LIBRTL onto the morelF recent system; been there, done that, and it's a disaster.  Unless, ofH course, you've already tried this, and know exactly which version of the LIBRTL will work with 7.3-2.  D What options does that leave me with for getting the older behavior?H One, I guess, is installing an upgrade to the Fortran compiler.  I don't1 have a version of Fortran that is later than 7.2.   H I know I should upgrade the 7.3-1 system, and I will , but my point withJ this post is that does not remedy the problem I have, which is a change in the formatting routines.   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.edut   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:44:41 -0500p0 From: "Brian Tillman" <Tillman@sparkingwire.com>I Subject: RE: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?s. Message-ID: <01289498.C22236@sparkingwire.com>   Lawrence Bleau wrote:g  ; > I tried copying LIBRTL.EXE from another 7.1-2 system ontoi > umtof2, the test	 > system.-  K I believe the Fortran rounding is in FORRTL, but I don't know this beyond ao doubt. -- ,
 Brian Tillman    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:15:49 +0000 (UTC)c* From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)I Subject: RE: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?t/ Message-ID: <c1lun5$tg$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>f  a In article <01289498.C22236@sparkingwire.com>, "Brian Tillman" <Tillman@sparkingwire.com> writes:r< >> I tried copying LIBRTL.EXE from another 7.1-2 system onto >> umtof2, the testn
 >> system. >-L >I believe the Fortran rounding is in FORRTL, but I don't know this beyond a >doubt.e   Brian,   To my question:cF > To assist in this, can you give me the name of the RTL that would beK > responsible for formatting output strings?  The four files I located thatiG > might have something to do with this, with their creation dates, are:n  ) John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> replied:n  C The routines are CVTAS$x_TO_A where x=F,G,S,T, or X.  They live in i
 LIBRTL.EXE  J That's why I stopped looking for the FORRTL file and focused in on LIBRTL.   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.edug   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 01:42:50 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>I Subject: Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?p0 Message-ID: <403EA09A.36BEAF61@sture.homeip.net>   Lawrence Bleau wrote:s >    <snip>   > Now, on to more info.m > - > Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote: J > >I think the real answer here is to put the relevant figures through theJ > >desired calculations manually in order to determine which RTL is giving > >the most accurate answer. > K > I'm ahead of you there, I think.  I modified HOUR_AVERAGE to additionallyRL > write an output line of the same values with a very large number of digitsK > to ensure they don't get rounded for the simple arithmetic I'm doing.  InmH > *each case* of a line where there's a difference, the higher precision3 > output showed that the next lower digit is a "5".o >   D Sorry if I was not more clear in my suggestion. When I used the wordF "manually", I meant without using a computer. Paper, pencil, that sort	 of thing.I    Excel isn't the answer either...   -- T
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:55:07 -0600 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> I Subject: Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?t3 Message-ID: <403E956B.CCF69CED@applied-synergy.com>    Lawrence Bleau wrote:  > L > I tried copying LIBRTL.EXE from another 7.1-2 system onto umtof2, the testJ > system.  I had to reinstall LIBRTL, but the reinstall failed, and thingsJ > started going awry.  I rebooted umtof2, but it would not even reboot; itG > hung during boot!  not even a conversation minimum boot allowed it to.M > proceed.  I booted VMS from a distribution cd, mounted the system disk, and9G > manually deleted the older (but higher version numbered) LIBRTL file.r > umtof2 now boots okay. > G > So, please, don't anyone suggest copying the old LIBRTL onto the moreiH > recent system; been there, done that, and it's a disaster.  Unless, ofJ > course, you've already tried this, and know exactly which version of the > LIBRTL will work with 7.3-2. > F > What options does that leave me with for getting the older behavior?J > One, I guess, is installing an upgrade to the Fortran compiler.  I don't3 > have a version of Fortran that is later than 7.2.s  + Don't copy the older LIBRTL to SYS$LIBRARY!o  ? Copy it to some other directory.  The directory containing yourn" application might be a good place.  	 Then, do:d  5 	$ Define/User LIBRTL <full-directory-path>LIBRTL.EXEf  , immediately before running your application.  ? That instance of your application will use the old LIBRTL whilen; everything else in the system is using the current one fromEG SYS$LIBRARY.  If you run your application without the LIBRTL define, its; will use the current one.  This makes A/B comparisons easy.   D Since your application calls FORRTL, which calls LIBRTL, you may runD into a cascading version problem where the current FORRTL won't workG with the older LIBRTL.  If this is the case, also copy the older FORRTLT  and DEFINE/USER the FORRTL also.  
 Good luck!  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------g$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com l   Fax: 817-237-3074e   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2004 01:30:56 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.comh" Subject: Re: WWW/DECnotes gateway?+ Message-ID: <c1ji8g06lt@enews2.newsguy.com>e  C "Tillman, Brian (AGRE)" <Brian.Tillman@smiths-aerospace.com> wrote:s > healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:  G > > What gateways exist for making DECnotes conferences available via ai > > webserver?^M  7 > I'm not sure how Encompasserve does it, but check outw  > http://www.encompasserve.org/.  L As near as I can tell they're using the one that Roland Kessi wrote for OSU,H though I've no clue as to where to get a copy, and it appears that is is
 read-only.  L It looks like they also have a Java telnet client setup, which won't work if you're behind a firewall.  7   			Zanen   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2004 21:31:14 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)i" Subject: Re: WWW/DECnotes gateway?3 Message-ID: <Y+tThpdeFJWd@eisner.encompasserve.org>   G In article <c1ji8g06lt@enews2.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com writes:nE > "Tillman, Brian (AGRE)" <Brian.Tillman@smiths-aerospace.com> wrote:n >> healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:i > H >> > What gateways exist for making DECnotes conferences available via a >> > webserver?^Mt > 8 >> I'm not sure how Encompasserve does it, but check out! >> http://www.encompasserve.org/.  > N > As near as I can tell they're using the one that Roland Kessi wrote for OSU,   Yes, it is.   0 > though I've no clue as to where to get a copy,  C I am sure you can get it from DECUServe.  Check out the conferencest there on DECUServe.n   > and it appears that is isi > read-only.  A It is read-only, and there are _extensive_ discussions about thata) issue in the DECUServe notes conferences.r  N > It looks like they also have a Java telnet client setup, which won't work if > you're behind a firewall.  D  2 Most DECUServe participation is via normal Telnet.   ==============  G Note that DECUServe and Encompasserve are two names for the same thing.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:58:24 -0500n# From: "don" <LakeGator@hotmail.com>:" Subject: Re: WWW/DECnotes gateway?0 Message-ID: <cOqdnbIzK6rqU6Pd4p2dnA@comcast.com>  L As several folks have pointed out, DECUServe uses a heavily modified versionK of the DCL interface Roland Kessi created.  I was one of the primary peopleaL who made the modifications in 1996.  Most of the changes were to support theG very large conferences supported on DECUServe.  The directory pages are K preformatted in a batch job whenever a conference is changed, for instance.e      J Roland's management wished to receive credit and he certainly did so he isK listed as the author on the majority of the displayed pages.  I cannot seeme= to get any of the references to Roland to display on the web..      J It is a read-only interface.  Simple write access could be added without a huge effort.      L I have no knowledge of WASD but if it is a well behaved VMS application then it should be easy to interface.h      D Your best bet is to join DECUServe as shown on the home page and get involved from there.      	 Have fun,e   donn          L <healyzh@aracnet.com> wrote in message news:c1eo490h9s@enews4.newsguy.com...E > What gateways exist for making DECnotes conferences available via af > webserver? >dL > I'm aware that Roland Kessi wrote one for OSU, however, I can't figure outH > where to obtain a copy.  Does anyone know where I can get it, or if it will > work on WASD?d >c > Zane >r >S   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:15:04 -0500t- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>eD Subject: Re: [MOTIF V1.3.1] DECterm not starting with Condensed Font1 Message-ID: <Tbydnf3oDcIB1aDdRVn-sA@adelphia.com>s    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:G > I use the settings "Little Font" and "Normal/80, Condensed/132" in my N > DECterms (and "Auto Resize Terminal", "Auto Resize Window", "Terminal Driver2 > Resize" - btw why aren't they default at all ?).  1 I do not know how the defaults get set sometimes.t  J > But when I log on into CDE and have stored a DECterm with 132 columns itM > gets created ok with 132 columns but with normal instead of condensed font.CO > First EDIT cmd (with its escape sequences) changes then DECterm to condensed.  >  > Why ?   / It sounds like a bug that needs to be reported.2  J > Is there anything I can do to fix this (besides starting them with 80col4 > and doing a SET TERMINAL/WIDTH=132 in LOGIN.COM) ?  F I have not tried the condensed font issue.  The DECTERM defaults that H you have saved are in the DECW$TERMINAL_DEFAULT.DAT where ever you have ? set the resource files to point to.  The default is SYS$LOGIN:.m  F You can try manually editing the file to see if that is a work around.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only6   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.114 ************************