1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 27 Feb 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 115       Contents:< Re: %LICENSE-F-NOLICENSE despite manual register/enable/loadP Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEX Re: Alpha Powered logo Re: Basic BACKUP Question  Re: Custom timezone rules  Re: DCL help Re: DCL Numerical symbols - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette   Re: GD graphics lib on CSWS 1.3?7 HOBBYIST PROGRAM FOUND ALIVE AND UNHARMED!  FILM AT 11. ; Re: HOBBYIST PROGRAM FOUND ALIVE AND UNHARMED!  FILM AT 11.  Hobbyists: Download site% Re: HP (Colorado) T4000s for OpenVMS? ! HP (Colorado) T4000s for OpenVMS? % Re: HP (Colorado) T4000s for OpenVMS?  Identify graphics on XP1000  Identify graphics on XP1000 ! IL - Chicago - Oracle/OpenVMS DBA  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon : Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!P Itanium challenge in top end - Cray's Opteron supercomputer to have 12.000 CPU'sP Re: Itanium challenge in top end - Cray's Opteron supercomputer to have 12.000 CP Re: Itanium challenge in top end - Cray's Opteron supercomputer to have 12.000 CP Re: Itanium challenge in top end - Cray's Opteron supercomputer to have 12.000 C( Re: JF Mezei issuing rogue cancels again Re: Just remember, JF.../ Re: KGPSA-C and EMC DS-24 M2 SAN Switch Problem 6 looking for Air traffic control simulation programmers! Re: MAIL: How to delete folders ?  Not meaning to feed Andrew..... # Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew..... # Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew..... # Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....  Re: ODBC drivers for MSSQL% OpenVMS 7.2 patch application trouble ' Re: Passing a socket to another process ' Re: Passing a socket to another process ' Re: Passing a socket to another process  Power Button on PWS  problems with tcpip log files . Re: Secure remote 2-factor user authentication* Secure remote 2-factor user authentication. Re: Secure remote 2-factor user authentication% Re: Securing SYSTEM from TCPIP access % Re: Securing SYSTEM from TCPIP access % Re: Securing SYSTEM from TCPIP access ? Sizing bandwidth for Disaster Tolerant cluster inter site links C RE: Sizing bandwidth for Disaster Tolerant cluster inter site links C Re: Sizing bandwidth for Disaster Tolerant cluster inter site links ) Sun Expands Program Aimed at HP Customers - RE: Sun Expands Program Aimed at HP Customers - Re: Sun Expands Program Aimed at HP Customers  Support of USB Memory stick " Re: Unable to paste at LSE prompts" Re: Unable to paste at LSE prompts" Re: Unable to paste at LSE prompts) Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas - Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas P Re: Upgrading VMS on a system where hardware is newer than the system disk OS su/ Re: USA will self-exterminate within 100 years! + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? ' VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? @ Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?@ Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?@ Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?@ Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?7 Re: [DFU V3.0] Any reason why there is no VAX version ? 7 RE: [DFU V3.0] Any reason why there is no VAX version ? 7 Re: [DFU V3.0] Any reason why there is no VAX version ? 7 RE: [DFU V3.0] Any reason why there is no VAX version ? / [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so... 3 Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so... " [TCPIP V5.4] Found a bug again ;-)& Re: [TCPIP V5.4] Found a bug again ;-)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:17:56 +0000 8 From: David McKenzie <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz>E Subject: Re: %LICENSE-F-NOLICENSE despite manual register/enable/load A Message-ID: <403dc73d$0$824$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>    Antonio Carlini wrote:   > Didier Morandi wrote: K >> 4. when I rebooted, after DECnet conf (I know, there was no need), I had + >> no licenses active for VMS, DECnet etc..  > : > How did you notice? SHOW LICENCE? Product usage failure? > D >> So, fine, I did enable and load OPENVMS-HOBBYIST and DVNETEND and >> rebooted. > E > The docs claim that licences are enabled by default at registration A > (although this is something that I do so rarely that I can only  > assume that's correct).  > D > Are you sure you LOADed the correct licence? If you have more thanB > one DVNETEND in the database, for example, are you sure that you > loaded the correct one?  > : > Repeat what you did but this time, before rebooting, use7 > LICENSE LIST/FULL DVNETEND and make sure that the one ( > you want is actually "Status: Active". >  > The reboot and check again.  > 	 > Antonio  >  > -- >  > --------------- / > Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org   D from memory DECNET and some other licenses need to be enabled for a H particular node. If you have changed the node name, which may well have K done by configuring decnet, then the license will not load on a particular  7 node unless you put a /include= in the license database    --   David McKenzie  remove rugby  - Web:            http://www.paradigm-shift.biz 7 Mail            David.McKenzie@paradigm-shift.rugby.biz    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 06:17:45 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>Y Subject: Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEX ) Message-ID: <403DD5CE.6C2E2311@istop.com>   @ Re 2 nodes with direct SCSI access to drive, each with one vote.  K A long long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, I seem to recall being told L that each drive on a cluster has one "master" node (the one handling all theK locks on that drive). If that is still the case, if you have a cluster with K all other things being equal, wouldn't it be the node that is the master of & the drive's locks that would survive ?  K (eg: probably the first node to boot into the cluster since it would likely Q become the master for the locks on the drive that is accessible to other node(s).    Or am I way off base here ?    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2004 20:48:08 GMT& From: jealousxmp@aol.com (jealous xmp) Subject: Re: Alpha Powered logo : Message-ID: <20040226154808.26340.00000416@mb-m20.aol.com>  M >The site's HTTP responses only mention Apache. No hint of which OS they run.   D Netcraft says it's Apache on Linux, but that is 6 months old figure.  N I know with passive fingerprinting you can verify that it's linux, but i don'tJ know how to verify it's on alpha.  I know some servers also show the wrong5 thing (like IIS on Linux) due to load balancers, etc.    Michael    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 00:23:00 +0000 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> " Subject: Re: Basic BACKUP Question8 Message-ID: <3b3t30too4u74ubkr5suo42uj26o50jjc9@4ax.com>  H On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:24:24 +0100, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote:   >John Laird wrote: >  ><snip>  >  >>   >> -- 5 >> Press ENTER once to quit or twice to save changes.  >>   >  >  >A great sig. LOL!  ? I nicked them all from somewhere, and can't take any credit ;-)    --  : Life is complex: It consists of real and imaginary parts.    Mail john rather than nospam...    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:31:43 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) " Subject: Re: Custom timezone rules0 Message-ID: <jrn%b.1146$Ph.116@news.cpqcorp.net>  H In article <2$JnnGO6ZMnc@cpva.saic.com>, mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com writes:2 >In article <%Z1%b.1055$z47.544@news.cpqcorp.net>,7 > hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes:  ..I >> (For reasons that aren't clear, SYS$MANGER:UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM seems to N >> intentionally ignore rule files in .USER.  I will look into changing this.) ..I >                                                 ... I think that you'll H >need to modify SYS$COMMON:[SYS$STARTUP]VMS$INITIAL-050_LIB.COM as well.  8 So it appears.  Thanks for calling this to my attention.   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2004 15:15:38 GMT* From: Terry Aardema <taardema@nrcan.gc.ca> Subject: Re: DCL help < Message-ID: <Xns949B5407CB1AEtaardemanrcangcca@132.156.36.9>  1 spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in 6 news:b096a4ee.0402251618.7b16cd76@posting.google.com:   G > BACKUP /SINCE=BACKUP is the same as BACKUP /MODIFIED/SINCE=BACKUP, so 9 > I would expect files without a backup date to be saved.  > H > You should try BACKUP /BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP and tell us what that does.H > On my 6.1 system it saves all files (quick single directory test). Not > of much use! >  > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldman    (I also saw your post, John.)   3 OK, let's see if I can hit all the combinations ...   I All tests on a VMS 7.3-1 Alpha system, backing up a directory containing   three files:( - TEST1.TXT with no backup date recorded> - TEST2.TXT with a backup date that's after it's modified date? - TEST3.TXT with a backup date that's before it's modified date   6 SATURN> backup/log/before/backup *.txt;* test.sav/save7 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied INF:[TAARDEMA.TEST]test1.txt;1   5 SATURN> backup/log/since/backup *.txt;* test.sav/save 7 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied INF:[TAARDEMA.TEST]test2.txt;1 7 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied INF:[TAARDEMA.TEST]test3.txt;2       6 SATURN> backup/log/before=backup *.txt;* test.sav/save7 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied INF:[TAARDEMA.TEST]test2.txt;1   5 SATURN> backup/log/since=backup *.txt;* test.sav/save 7 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied INF:[TAARDEMA.TEST]test1.txt;1 7 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied INF:[TAARDEMA.TEST]test3.txt;2       = SATURN> backup/log/before=backup/backup *.txt;* test.sav/save D %BACKUP-W-NOFILES, no files selected from INF:[TAARDEMA.TEST]*.txt;*  < SATURN> backup/log/since=backup/backup *.txt;* test.sav/save7 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied INF:[TAARDEMA.TEST]test1.txt;1 7 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied INF:[TAARDEMA.TEST]test2.txt;1 7 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied INF:[TAARDEMA.TEST]test3.txt;2   G In every pair of matched /BEFORE and /SINCE tests, the files backed up  8 were disjoint sets, and together included all the files.  H And 7.3-1 hasn't changed; BACKUP/BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP still gets all the  files.  
 Terry Aardema  Systems and Network Manager  Natural Resources Canada Canadian Forest Service  Northern Forestry Centre #include <disclaimer.h>    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 12:27:52 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) " Subject: Re: DCL Numerical symbols3 Message-ID: <hG2NH8bI8Gp6@eisner.encompasserve.org>   m In article <5ee1d1b7.0402260739.7b0411c6@posting.google.com>, phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) writes:  > G > If you look for it there is a UNixR (UNR) version for VMS that can be E > inwstalled that will provide all the functionality of Unix on a VMS F > system.  What they did was port Unix ontop of VMS and "dumb it down"B > to allow Unix users the ability to operate it on top of VMS.  It7 > includes all the normal Unix like commands as normal.       Shades of Eunice.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:29:44 +0100 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette3 Message-ID: <000f01c3fd03$78bfa2a0$994614ac@wat153>    Hello,  G Nettiquette is necessary for a secure emailing. I must be sure that all E Email from INFOVAX are plain text. Then I can read them without to be F afraid that there is a virus, which do activate itself by viewing. WhyF must (!!!) you use other then plain text? The most one do use other inF case of every one is doing it. I use Outlook, but I have customized my Email format as plain text.    Best regards Rudolf Wingert   H P.S. This is an OpenVMS mailing list, and every one using OpenVMS should7 be able to read the Email without any unreadable parts.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:39:16 -0000 , From: rdd@rhiannon.rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette0 Message-ID: <103s4p4j0kcule3@corp.supernews.com>  0 In article <403DE7DE.263D5F85@sture.homeip.net>,- 	Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:  > JF Mezei wrote: M >> 4-Why is it so difficult for people to configure their mail clients NOT to N >> send HTML ? There are some that insisi on sending 2 copies, one in text and [...] J > Some corporate environments have their PCs locked down so that you can't( > change settings. It's a pain but true.  C That's no excuse.  They can always take a laptop computer in to the A office running a VAX emulator, e.g. SIMH, under Linux or FreeBSD, D running VMS, and swap some cables around, even if it means resortingA to using wire-cutters and a crimping tool, etc., if things are so E "locked down" that the cabling is glued to the PeeCees.  Even if they D don't have VMS on their laptops, they can at least do what they wantF with them, configuring to send reasonable e-mail, thumbing their noses5 at being told to use those Dilbertized corporate PCs.   7 For some information about the aforementioned emulator:   >     http://www.wherry.com/gadgets/retrocomputing/vax-simh.html  C Just because management says to do something their way doesn't mean A that one has to to it the way they're expecting one to do it.  No E point in trying to please the upper management droids, since one will C get outsourced whether or not one is a wimpy backside kissing ninny D who's afraid to break or bend workplace rules as necessary.  Why notD at least have some fun in the workplace before the jobs get sent off? to China, India, Outer Mongolia, etc. with G. Weaselboy Shrub's 	 blessing?    --  N Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: M All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &  O rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such I http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:59:04 -0000 , From: rdd@rhiannon.rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette0 Message-ID: <103s5u8hba2svba@corp.supernews.com>  / In article <00A2DFC8.5C7B0113.1@tachysoft.com>, + 	Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> writes: M > mozilla.  Admittedly, the fucking word documents have to then be ftped to a @ > billybox for viewing.  Fortunately, I don't get many of those.  E Nah... just use a text editor to look at the .doc file and search for C recognizable text strings like "the" to get to where the text is in D the file.  If it contains graphics, etc., then just ignore those andF tell the idiot who sent it to you to bring you a printed copy of it if& he or she wants you to see everything.   --  N Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: M All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &  O rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such I http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:44:40 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette0 Message-ID: <00A2E085.A3FA4E9D@SendSpamHere.ORG>  \ In article <403E9B97.BC9E2C8@sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes: {...snip...}A >But the ***very real*** problem there is that 99% of the html or 1 >quoted/printable emails I receive are pure spam.   K Any email that is received here as Content-Type: */html is considered to be  fertilizer for the bit bucket.  J I'd toss that rediculously stupid "quoted-printable" formatting (oh, to beI Freed of that idiocy ;) but that would mean I'd never hear from DEComHPaq 3 again.  Why does PLAIN OLD TEXT need to be encoded?   K Another nuisance in the email world is the inability to locate the carriage K return key.  WTF?  Are people are so tired from doing the Willywarez three- J finger salute umpteen times a day that it's too much effort to depress the- carriage return every 70-80 characters typed?    --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.  --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:12:07 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette0 Message-ID: <403F5037.613FA4B0@sture.homeip.net>   Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: >  > Paul Sture wrote:  >  > >Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote:  > >  > >  > >>healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > >> > >> > >>9 > >>>Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@flying-disk.com> wrote:  > >>>  > >>>  > >>>  > >>> J > >>>>on VMS systems.   It's not that they don't know what they are doing,G > >>>>they actively don't *want* to change.   They claim that there are L > >>>>only one or two people using VMS mail, so we are not worth the effort.5 > >>>>It's our fault that we are not running Windows.  > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>O > >>><sigh> Idiots!  One of the main uses of my VMS system is email.  I use the G > >>>tty VMS Mail client daily, and the DECwindows client occasionally.  > >>>  > >>>  > >>>  > >>>  > >>> G > >>We are a media rich society and to expect people, be they inside or K > >>outside your company, customer, or vendor base to stay with paper-tape, E > >>teletypes, or punch cards because you don't feel e-mail should be J > >>anything other than vanilla ASCII text, is a hopeless battle that willC > >>only continue to frustrate yourself, and alienate everyone else ' > >>attempting to communicate with you.  > >> > >> > >> > > C > >But the ***very real*** problem there is that 99% of the html or 3 > >quoted/printable emails I receive are pure spam.  > >  > >  > > G > Then that being the case, I would say that your anti-spam systems are J > very infective and in our case, I would say the inverse is true and thatH > about 80% of our spam messages that do leak through, are text; Russian > seems very popular lately... >   G Not so much ineffective as non-existant for the place I last worked at.   8 I suppose I've been lucky on the Russian front then :-)    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 06:24:39 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> 6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette' Message-ID: <403F4517.1090006@MMaz.com>    VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:   ] >In article <403E9B97.BC9E2C8@sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes: 
 >{...snip...}  >    > B >>But the ***very real*** problem there is that 99% of the html or2 >>quoted/printable emails I receive are pure spam. >>     >> > L >Any email that is received here as Content-Type: */html is considered to be >fertilizer for the bit bucket.  > K >I'd toss that rediculously stupid "quoted-printable" formatting (oh, to be J >Freed of that idiocy ;) but that would mean I'd never hear from DEComHPaq4 >again.  Why does PLAIN OLD TEXT need to be encoded? >    > G Because the SMTP RFC is based on 7-bit text streams and if you include  D anything odd like a British pound symbol, or the Euro, or any other I language punctuation that is not English based, those characters require  D an 8-bit encoding at which point the MTA MUST encode the message as F quoted-printable.  So even if there isn't HTML, embedded graphics, MS C crap, there is STILL the need for folks to get over themselves and  : except that pure, raw, 7-bit ASCII text e-mail is history!   Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:19:48 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquetteH Message-ID: <E0p%b.71064$RTW1.7358@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   R. D. Davis wrote:2 > In article <403DE7DE.263D5F85@sture.homeip.net>,. > Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes: >> JF Mezei wrote:G >>> 4-Why is it so difficult for people to configure their mail clients F >>> NOT to send HTML ? There are some that insisi on sending 2 copies, >>> one in text and  > [...] E >> Some corporate environments have their PCs locked down so that you / >> can't change settings. It's a pain but true.  > E > That's no excuse.  They can always take a laptop computer in to the C > office running a VAX emulator, e.g. SIMH, under Linux or FreeBSD, F > running VMS, and swap some cables around, even if it means resortingC > to using wire-cutters and a crimping tool, etc., if things are so G > "locked down" that the cabling is glued to the PeeCees.  Even if they F > don't have VMS on their laptops, they can at least do what they wantH > with them, configuring to send reasonable e-mail, thumbing their noses7 > at being told to use those Dilbertized corporate PCs.  > 9 > For some information about the aforementioned emulator:  > @ >     http://www.wherry.com/gadgets/retrocomputing/vax-simh.html > E > Just because management says to do something their way doesn't mean C > that one has to to it the way they're expecting one to do it.  No G > point in trying to please the upper management droids, since one will E > get outsourced whether or not one is a wimpy backside kissing ninny F > who's afraid to break or bend workplace rules as necessary.  Why notF > at least have some fun in the workplace before the jobs get sent offA > to China, India, Outer Mongolia, etc. with G. Weaselboy Shrub's  > blessing?     ; Doing what you suggest is, in some shops, a firing offence.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:52:34 -0000 , From: rdd@rhiannon.rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette0 Message-ID: <103s92i8vkma7be@corp.supernews.com>  H In article <E0p%b.71064$RTW1.7358@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,& 	"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > = > Doing what you suggest is, in some shops, a firing offence.   D Well, who in their right mind can work in such miserable restrictiveD places, that are so opposed to creativity, anyway?  Besides, most ofF those places in the US are going to end up outsourcing their employees> anyway, so why make things any easier for the SOBs before they outsource your jobs?   --  N Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: M All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &  O rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such I http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:13:18 +0100 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette; Message-ID: <403e292e.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   ) Wayne Sewell (wayne@tachysoft.com) wrote: G > The mime utility included starting with 7.3 works well enough to pull E > out attachments when people insist on sending them.  I find it most D > useful for image files, which can be displayed directly on the vmsI > system with xv or mozilla.  Admittedly, the fucking word documents have G > to then be ftped to a billybox for viewing.  Fortunately, I don't get  > many of those.  H If it's just the text of the MS Word docs you're after (yes, some peopleH do write Word documents when simple ASCII would be enough :-( ), you can5 extract it in most cases on VMS using antiword - see  ? http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/~huber/pds/antiword/antiword_vms.htm 
 Thanks, Sepp!    cu, 	   Martin   --  @                           | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules!3  Cetero censeo            | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de F  Redmondem delendam esse. |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:                           | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:21:17 -0000 , From: rdd@rhiannon.rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette0 Message-ID: <103se8tfkirfpc8@corp.supernews.com>  I In article <SFp%b.71988$RTW1.33848@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, & 	"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  I > You might not get a severance payment if they can your ass 'for cause'.   F It wouldn't be "for cause", since you were doing your work in the mostE efficient manner possible with the company's best interests at heart.    --  N Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: M All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &  O rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such I http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:48:14 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette0 Message-ID: <00A2DFF7.A6010FD5@SendSpamHere.ORG>  _ In article <103se8tfkirfpc8@corp.supernews.com>, rdd@rhiannon.rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) writes: J >In article <SFp%b.71988$RTW1.33848@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,' >	"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  > J >> You might not get a severance payment if they can your ass 'for cause'. > G >It wouldn't be "for cause", since you were doing your work in the most F >efficient manner possible with the company's best interests at heart.  G If you were working the cocksuckers in the NYC area, it doesn't matter. G Trump up some miserable lies and then rake 'em over the coals with some F vindictive abuse-of-process law(lie)suit.  The *truth* simply does NOTG matter especially in a court of law where you'd have to go to challenge  said dismissal.   G You seem to miss the fact that Joe Averageemployee cannot muster up the F money for the legal belhops necessary to counter any godless miscreantJ employer hell bent on screwing your ass ten different ways from Sunday!      Been there!  --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.  --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:01:16 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette) Message-ID: <403E508B.D48324E9@istop.com>    "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:E > We are a media rich society and to expect people, be they inside or I > outside your company, customer, or vendor base to stay with paper-tape, C > teletypes, or punch cards because you don't feel e-mail should be > > anything other than vanilla ASCII text, is a hopeless battle    L When a kid gets a new toy, it will use it all the time. Then, as he matures,* he will use the toy only when he needs it.  L Sending HTML emails  adds absolutely nothing. "Kids" think it is way cool toL be able to send emails with text in blue, red, yellow, and have some huge orN very tiny letters and different fonts. But when they mature, they will realise2 that this adds absolutely nothing to the contents.  J Yes, there are times when you do need to include attachements which are inG various formats. But for the vast majority of times, a simple text-only  message more than suffices.   M By default, people should be sending text only, and only use attachements and / richer text format when it is really necessary.   F If Microsoft had followed that established nettiquette in its softwareH defaults, it wouldn't had suffered so many viri and worms. It is becauseN people are sending "rich" contents and MS's software treating it as plain textG (in terms of security) that there are so many problems costing industry * billions in lost productivity due to viri.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:07:58 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> 6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette' Message-ID: <403F5D4E.4020707@MMaz.com>    R. D. Davis wrote:  J >In article <SFp%b.71988$RTW1.33848@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,' >	"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  >  >    > I >>You might not get a severance payment if they can your ass 'for cause'.  >>     >> > G >It wouldn't be "for cause", since you were doing your work in the most F >efficient manner possible with the company's best interests at heart. >    > E That doesn't matter if it violates company policy!  Your argument is  @ weak at best, because it could be said that taking confidential H information home to work on it during your off-time is in the companies E best interest.  What if that same effort violates corporate security  B policies and procedures, and perhaps even puts the companies site E clearance at risk?  You are suggesting that the ranks determine what  D corporate policy or procedure they will chose to adhere to, that is 
 unacceptable.      Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:36:22 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> 6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette% Message-ID: <403F63F6.30708@MMaz.com>    JF Mezei wrote:    >"Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:  >    > E >>We are a media rich society and to expect people, be they inside or I >>outside your company, customer, or vendor base to stay with paper-tape, C >>teletypes, or punch cards because you don't feel e-mail should be > >>anything other than vanilla ASCII text, is a hopeless battle >>     >> > M >When a kid gets a new toy, it will use it all the time. Then, as he matures, + >he will use the toy only when he needs it.  >    > I I'm not sure in you're attempting to imply anything here :-) but my kids  
 are adults...   G >If Microsoft had followed that established nettiquette in its software I >defaults, it wouldn't had suffered so many viri and worms. It is because O >people are sending "rich" contents and MS's software treating it as plain text H >(in terms of security) that there are so many problems costing industry+ >billions in lost productivity due to viri.  >    >  Arg, IMHO that is complete BS!      Microsoft has a problem because:G     1. Their product is running almost every where and they shipped it  E with all of their crappy and unsecured services enabled (even if you  C never needed them).  This is further complicated because most home uI users/small business users what these services are or how to disable themaG     2. MS can't seem to figure out what a buffer-overrun is nor how to kH code in a manner to avoid creating them, let alone fixing them but most D importantly, even if MS issues patches, those same home users/small G business users haven't a clue as to what patching is or why the latest P3 patch just busted their system so they don't do it.oF     3. And MS does want to segregate the OS from all of the fluff and I crap that is predominantly exploited like IE, Outlook, SQL, and now ASN. s    A and unrelated to MS, sites that have services are not adequately eA protecting their systems with firewalls.  In the case of the SQL oG exploits, it is next to impossible to justify allowing SQL services to  I be openly accessible to anyone from the Internet, a basic firewall would o have stopped much of that.    H I know it's been mentioned before in jest, but the should have licensed F the VMS kernel from Digital and then slapped their GUI on for Windows  NT, 2K, and XP...    Barryt   --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        i   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 10:08:28 -0800- From: phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) 6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette= Message-ID: <5ee1d1b7.0402271008.20b165be@posting.google.com>b  [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<403E508B.D48324E9@istop.com>...n > "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:G > > We are a media rich society and to expect people, be they inside or K > > outside your company, customer, or vendor base to stay with paper-tape,wE > > teletypes, or punch cards because you don't feel e-mail should bel@ > > anything other than vanilla ASCII text, is a hopeless battle >  > N > When a kid gets a new toy, it will use it all the time. Then, as he matures,, > he will use the toy only when he needs it. > N > Sending HTML emails  adds absolutely nothing. "Kids" think it is way cool toN > be able to send emails with text in blue, red, yellow, and have some huge orP > very tiny letters and different fonts. But when they mature, they will realise4 > that this adds absolutely nothing to the contents. > L > Yes, there are times when you do need to include attachements which are inI > various formats. But for the vast majority of times, a simple text-onlyo > message more than suffices.  > O > By default, people should be sending text only, and only use attachements andn1 > richer text format when it is really necessary.e > H > If Microsoft had followed that established nettiquette in its softwareJ > defaults, it wouldn't had suffered so many viri and worms. It is becauseP > people are sending "rich" contents and MS's software treating it as plain textI > (in terms of security) that there are so many problems costing industrya, > billions in lost productivity due to viri.    B Formatted email is valuable to many people.  Whether the format isD HTML or a MS-Whatever attachment.  Whether people want to believe itD or not MS is an industry leader in computers.  I would bet that at aE minimum 75% of office systems are running on MS based platforms.  So, D that means that 25% of the industry is using a non standard platform; for their office management environments.  It't the anti-MSrF hackeristas that cause the excessive viri and worms that are currentlyF hitting systems anc costing the industry billions in lost productivityD not to mention profits due to the purchasing of expensive Anti-VirusE software.  How in the world can you blame Viri and Worms on a company ' that is setting the industry standards.n   PT   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:54:40 GMT-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>M6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquetteH Message-ID: <AvL%b.36875$Qg7.24336@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:= > In article <403F4517.1090006@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr."o > <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:h" >> VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>> >>> In article <403E9B97.BC9E2C8@sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture2 >>> <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes: {...snip...} >>>  >>>aE >>>> But the ***very real*** problem there is that 99% of the html ora5 >>>> quoted/printable emails I receive are pure spam.  >>>> >>>> >>>A> >>> Any email that is received here as Content-Type: */html is >>> considered to be" >>> fertilizer for the bit bucket. >>> C >>> I'd toss that rediculously stupid "quoted-printable" formattingu >>> (oh, to beC >>> Freed of that idiocy ;) but that would mean I'd never hear from 
 >>> DEComHPaqV7 >>> again.  Why does PLAIN OLD TEXT need to be encoded?a >>>; >>> A >> Because the SMTP RFC is based on 7-bit text streams and if you-D >> include anything odd like a British pound symbol, or the Euro, orB >> any other language punctuation that is not English based, thoseC >> characters require an 8-bit encoding at which point the MTA MUSTeB >> encode the message as quoted-printable.  So even if there isn'tF >> HTML, embedded graphics, MS crap, there is STILL the need for folksE >> to get over themselves and except that pure, raw, 7-bit ASCII text  >> e-mail is history!i >  > Duh! >E8 > Euro and British pound symbols are NOT PLAIN OLD TEXT!    9 Well then, VMS had better get with the program hadn't it?h  J Seems to me that 'internationalization' is the order of the day. How aboutI we just drop the '$' from 'plain old text' and use the Euro symbol in itsoK place - after all it's arguably a strong currency and will likely remain so J for decades vs. the USD, especially if the Republicans are re-elected. :-(   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:57:28 -0700e+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>d6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette' Message-ID: <403F9318.8000505@MMaz.com>a   John Smith wrote:   A >>>Because the SMTP RFC is based on 7-bit text streams and if youlD >>>include anything odd like a British pound symbol, or the Euro, orB >>>any other language punctuation that is not English based, thoseC >>>characters require an 8-bit encoding at which point the MTA MUSTlB >>>encode the message as quoted-printable.  So even if there isn'tF >>>HTML, embedded graphics, MS crap, there is STILL the need for folksE >>>to get over themselves and except that pure, raw, 7-bit ASCII textd >>>e-mail is history! 	 >>>      - >>>- >>Duh! >>8 >>Euro and British pound symbols are NOT PLAIN OLD TEXT! >>; >>Well then, VMS had better get with the program hadn't it?t >>L >>Seems to me that 'internationalization' is the order of the day. How aboutK >>we just drop the '$' from 'plain old text' and use the Euro symbol in itseM >>place - after all it's arguably a strong currency and will likely remain sogL >>for decades vs. the USD, especially if the Republicans are re-elected. :-( >> >>     >>H Perhaps I'm a little rusty on history, but was it not Woodrow Wilson, a H democrat, who instituted the Federal Reserve Act which basically handed G over complete control of all US currency to a group of private bankers  H who then proceeded to outlaw the backing of currency by silver or gold, I except for international exchange which lead to the bleeding of our gold a reserves off-source? -    D Our economy is recovering, which I personally credit to the present F administration, but the currency valuation issue is no doubt a direct C result of the fiat currency we have had for roughly 8 decades, the sA personal and government debt that we as US citizens have saddled sI ourselves with, and the fact that several countries  (ie. China) who are aC growing as an economic presence, are preparing to return to a gold w standard currency.     BarryI     -- e  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:48:13 +0000j) From: Witchy <news@sruasonidyranib.co.uk>2) Subject: Re: GD graphics lib on CSWS 1.3?i8 Message-ID: <8e4u305n78oe63fv32aoavsvb0k3os2d07@4ax.com>  A On 26 Feb 2004 05:53:16 -0800, brfraley@hotmail.com (Brad) wrote:>  j >Witchy <news@sruasonidyranib.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3lro309rqaflmbtub6ceau3k0mshjn72g5@4ax.com>...H >> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:20:02 GMT, "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com>	 >> wrote:p >>   >> >Witchy,- >> ># >> >I'm glad you're up and running.0 >> >O >> >If you're looking for PHP header files, send me an e-mail. We'll be postingsI >> >up-to-date source code kits in the near future, but I can get you thea >> >headers you need.v >> > >> , >> Thanks Rick, on its way :): >Witchy, > D >I am also trying to get GD working under PHP on OpenVMS Apache. AnyG >info/problems you have or solve would be appreciated. I will also keepN >you posted on my efforts. >  >Bradt   Hi Brad,  F I've not had any free time to even attempt installing gcc or DEC C yet8 :)  Too much DIY needed to get our living room reuseableE again.....hopefully I'll get an hour or two over the weekend to startO things rolling.i     -- cheers,s   witchy/binarydinosaurs   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 08:15:45 -0800. From: al5vf03p02@sneakemail.com (William Webb)@ Subject: HOBBYIST PROGRAM FOUND ALIVE AND UNHARMED!  FILM AT 11.= Message-ID: <d5ce4b06.0402270815.1b2816dc@posting.google.com>-  i Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote in message news:<403EC91D.8080702@Flying-Disk.com>...j > healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > F > > > I think that since HP has not been able to kill VMS with lack ofD > > > advertising, they decided to attack its least powerful support > > > base: the hobbyists. >  =M > > I don't know, I tend to think it as being a case of the person isn't evensJ > > aware that the program exists.  That is the way I read the comment you > > posted.d > = > I sincerely *hope* that that is the case.   But this is thei; > official spokesperson for licensing questions.   I cannotm> > conceive that a person in this position would not be totally< > familiar with all aspects of the hobbyist license program. > > > On the other hand, perhaps he was deliberatly lying to me in> > an effort to get me to spend $2400 for the VMS base license. > I > It wouldn't be the first time I've encountered an ethics problem at HP.b >  > Alan  A The elapsed time between my email and a response from Mark Gorham*7 correcting the misinformation was less than 15 minutes.E   Once again, HP is listening.  E I posted this through Google earlier but it hasn't come round yet so IC I'm reposting under the assumption that a case of binary flatulenceA
 has occurred:;   -----Original Message-----7 From: Gorham, Mark [mailto:REDACTED TO THWART SPAMBOTS]i' Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 8:25 AMUG To: Webb, William W - Raleigh, NC; Skonetski, Susan; Stallard, Scott J;i Smith, John (VMS - Govt)" Cc: Braje, Madi; Vazquez, MaryJaneF Subject: RE: This HP *licensing* point of contact does not know of the. VMS Hobbyist license program - please correct.       Thanks for the mail William.  G Madi, MJ can help you with the hobbyist program info.  We definitely doaA distinguish between business and hobbyist use and have a thrivingU hobbyist program.I   RegardsA Mark   Mark Gorham   Vice President o OpenVMS Systems Division# Email: REDACTED TO THWART SPAMBOTS d' Phone: REDACTED TO THWART TELEMARKETERSe Admin: Susan Christiee" Email: REDACTED TO THWART SPAMBOTS' Phone: REDACTED TO THWART TELEMARKETERSB   ----- End Original Message-----h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:57:59 -0700e+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>FD Subject: Re: HOBBYIST PROGRAM FOUND ALIVE AND UNHARMED!  FILM AT 11.' Message-ID: <403F7717.9030804@MMaz.com>    William Webb wrote:s  j >Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote in message news:<403EC91D.8080702@Flying-Disk.com>... >  s >eD >>>>I think that since HP has not been able to kill VMS with lack ofB >>>>advertising, they decided to attack its least powerful support >>>>base: the hobbyists. >>>>         >>>>L >> I don't know, I tend to think it as being a case of the person isn't evenH >>aware that the program exists.  That is the way I read the comment you	 >>posted.o >>     >>= >>I sincerely *hope* that that is the case.   But this is thea; >>official spokesperson for licensing questions.   I cannotE> >>conceive that a person in this position would not be totally< >>familiar with all aspects of the hobbyist license program. >>> >>On the other hand, perhaps he was deliberatly lying to me in> >>an effort to get me to spend $2400 for the VMS base license. >>I >>It wouldn't be the first time I've encountered an ethics problem at HP.V >>     >>B >The elapsed time between my email and a response from Mark Gorham8 >correcting the misinformation was less than 15 minutes. >u >Once again, HP is listening.  >tF >I posted this through Google earlier but it hasn't come round yet so D >I'm reposting under the assumption that a case of binary flatulence >has occurred: >. >-----Original Message-----i8 >From: Gorham, Mark [mailto:REDACTED TO THWART SPAMBOTS]( >Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 8:25 AMH >To: Webb, William W - Raleigh, NC; Skonetski, Susan; Stallard, Scott J; >Smith, John (VMS - Govt)o# >Cc: Braje, Madi; Vazquez, MaryJaneiG >Subject: RE: This HP *licensing* point of contact does not know of thee/ >VMS Hobbyist license program - please correct.. >e >n >, >Thanks for the mail William.e >nH >Madi, MJ can help you with the hobbyist program info.  We definitely doB >distinguish between business and hobbyist use and have a thriving >hobbyist program. >g >Regards >Mark  >t >    >.I Yeap, this is great that Mark is willing to be prompt on matters of this nF nature.  I wonder what Mark would say, however, to the question about H what happens to a new customer to HP who calls for the very first time, H and is interested in buying a OpenVMS system?  Are they transferred and D disconnected a dozen times before the customer gives up?  Told that H OpenView only runs on Windows XP?  Or that they no longer have VMS as a I product?  I'm a customer and this has happened to me, so you really have tE to wonder where VMS could be today, if the "Three Stooges" that have aK owned VMS even began to make sound marketing choices and stuck with them...s     Barryo   -- r  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:00:17 -0600t@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>! Subject: Hobbyists: Download site 6 Message-ID: <403F85B1.8D557320@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Folks,  5 I found this while surfing the OpenVMS Hobbyist site:    http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/n  H On the downloads page, there's a link: "Take yer chance". This takes you to:    http://vmsone.com/  G (Note: Page does not appear to work with Netscape V4.77 for WhineBloze.u4 Use Interhose Exploder.) Select the "webpages" link:   http://vmsone.com/webpages.htmls  H ..., and you'll find goodies that you can download. That page works withC Netscape V4.77 enough that you can use the text links. The graphicsa links are still MIA.  H Now, I haven't found anonymous FTP access to this, only HTTP. So, you'llB have to download with a browser or WGET and fixup the file/savesetH attributes. If downloading to a PC (M$ or UN*X), remember to transfer to VMS as binary.  G .PCSI files should be fixed-8192. Use SET FILE/ATTR=(LRL=8192,RFM=FIX).c  $ From an old post I dug up on Google:  B On Freeware 5, Disk 1, in the [000TOOLS] directory, there is a DCLE command procedure named RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_FILE_ATTRIBUTES.COM thatn fixes things quite nicely.  H Dunno if there's a newer version of that out in the wild. There's also a couple of versions at:  - http://vmsone.com/~ovmshobby/vms_library/com/y  " (Link should work in any browser.)   Hope this helps...   --   David J. DachteraC dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  6 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:27 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)9 From: duncan@macdonald.compulink.co.uk (Duncan Macdonald)d. Subject: Re: HP (Colorado) T4000s for OpenVMS?A Message-ID: <memo.20040227102752.3404A@macdonald.compulink.co.uk>   M If the drive is in an external box, check the power rails - especially the 5 eO volt rail. Some SCSI devices are very sensitive to voltages that are a bit low 8O (the old 8mm Exabyte drives were the worst - fine at 5.15 volts - iffy at 5.05 B volts - dead at 4.95 volts).   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:42:29 -0500p$ From: "Chris" <moore_mc@hotmail.com>* Subject: HP (Colorado) T4000s for OpenVMS?1 Message-ID: <aeq%b.2458$mx4.51395@nnrp1.uunet.ca>s  A I have had an HP Surestore T4 (aka Colorado T4000s) come in to myrK possession, and it looks like it would suit my backup needs fairly well foriL an aging Alpha 400 with two 2 Gb drives.  VMS seems to recognize it for whatF it is, but can't address it, see below.  Can't find any mention of VMSI support for the drive on the website, so I don't know if it's faulty, tootG old firmware rev, or just plain not usable under VMS.  Any suggestions?   # HOBBES::CMOORE $ sh dev/full mka600t  G Magtape HOBBES$MKA600:, device type HP T4000s, is online, file-oriented  device, H available to cluster, error logging is enabled, device supports fastskip per_io).  E Error count              0        Operations completed             25yE Owner process           ""        Owner UIC                  [SYSTEM]-E Owner process ID  00000000        Dev Prot        S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,WpE Reference count          0        Default buffer size            2048uE Density            default        Format                    Normal-11 @ Volume status: no-unload on dismount, position lost, odd parity.  ) HOBBES::CMOORE $ init hobbes$mka600: testt  ! %INIT-F-DRVERR, fatal drive errori     --K The preceding opinions are those of the writer, and don't seem to representV those of his employer (yet)h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:16:55 -0500n$ From: "Chris" <moore_mc@hotmail.com>. Subject: Re: HP (Colorado) T4000s for OpenVMS?1 Message-ID: <JCr%b.2494$mx4.52479@nnrp1.uunet.ca>   B  >Volume status: no-unload on dismount, position lost, odd parity.6 >                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^I > "position lost" is a bad sign.  It could mean bad tape, dirty heads, or G > broken drive.  Obviously the reasonable actions here are to clean thea headso > and try a brand new tape.e >e, > >HOBBES::CMOORE $ init hobbes$mka600: test > >r$ > >%INIT-F-DRVERR, fatal drive error > 7 > This is expected if the drive is losing its position.  >uJ > In general, generic SCSI tape drives do work under VMS.  I have used 8mm	 > before.> >yD > >The preceding opinions are those of the writer, and don't seem to	 represento > >those of his employer (yet) >  > Just call me a trendsetter!a >*2 > --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.    H Managed to get it to the point of showing 'beginning-of-tape' with a newH cartridge (all were still in the cellophane), and if I insert a cart andH execute the command, it will wait until the drive readies the tape, thenG gives the same error on mount or init.  Still shows 'beginning-of-tape'  afterwards .  <grrrr>rG Magtape HOBBES$MKA600:, device type HP T4000s, is online, file-oriented- device,SH available to cluster, error logging is enabled, device supports fastskip per_io).  % Error count 0 Operations completed 49 # Owner process "" Owner UIC [SYSTEM] 6 Owner process ID 00000000 Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W* Reference count 0 Default buffer size 2048  Density default Format Normal-11  D Volume status: no-unload on dismount, beginning-of-tape, odd parity.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:28:21 +0000 (UTC)r3 From: vance@alumni.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle) $ Subject: Identify graphics on XP1000* Message-ID: <c1n645$46$1@naig.caltech.edu>  :  How does one identify which graphics card is in an XP1000; without taking it out and seeing what part number is on theb card?e  :  It doesn't seem like "show config" says what PCI graphics is on the bus.   -- Vance HaemmerleE   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:14:48 +0100x( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>$ Subject: Identify graphics on XP10003 Message-ID: <000801c3fd22$e9a5d2e0$994614ac@wat153>t   Hello,   Vance Haemmerle wrotes:i   >>>nB  How does one identify which graphics card is in an XP1000 without9 taking it out and seeing what part number is on the card?aD  It doesn't seem like "show config" says what PCI graphics is on the bus. <<<   E Use the following commands to find out the installed graphic adapter:-   		$ ANALYZE/SYSTEM 		SDA> CLUE CONFIG  F Then you will see (second page) what kind of graphic adapter is within your XP10003   Best regards Rudolf Wingert    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 07:03:39 -0800" From: carl@divtel.com (Carl Guse')* Subject: IL - Chicago - Oracle/OpenVMS DBA< Message-ID: <cc9be1a5.0402270703.8a4545f@posting.google.com>   Title:  Oracle/OpenVMS DBA  0 Skills:  Oracle DBA, OpenVMS, Cerner Millennium     Date:  2-23-2004   Location:  Oakbrook, IL  Area code:  630    2 Tax term:  CON_HIRE_W2 CON_HIRE_IND CON_HIRE_CORP  Pay rate:  Open  Length:  Contract-to-Direct     Job description: c  E 3-6 month contract-to-direct opening with one of our large healthcareiA clients located in Oakbrook, IL has us looking for a senior level ? Oracle DBA who has specific health care industry experience and>, specific healthcare applications experience.  B Very strong preference for candidates already local to the ChicagoC area. Also, candidates must be US Citizen or have an approved Greene Card work authorization.  E MANDATORY EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS (all must be met to be considered):t  F **Experience as a Senior Oracle DBA, administrative (tuning, recovery,+ space management, installation, debug,etc.)eD **Experience with OpenVMS, Alpha, DCL, VMS cluster, UCX or Multinet F **Extensive "Cerner Millennium" experience (project focus) on OpenVMS, supporting OracletD **Minimum five years dedicated Oracle experience, within a technical support environmentt/ **Very strong verbal and written communications/  D When responding, please make sure your resume has your full name andC complete contact info (mailing address, phones, and email contact).     Travel required:  none d Telecommute:  no      Contact for more information:e  
 Carl Guse' DTIo 1112 S Wabash Aves	 Suite 500h Chicago, IL 60605w   Phone: (312) 362-9600 ext. 231 '  f E-mail: carl@divtel.com  Web: http://www.divtel.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:20:34 -0500o* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon2 Message-ID: <zuudnS68k5msEKPdRVn-ig@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:WEDPD3y$iuSC@eisner.encompasserve.org...n? > In article <7500353b.0402250435.20b983f1@posting.google.com>, 0 mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon) writes: > > And the winner is #1.t6 > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/35799.html > >c >,; > At first, I thought what you wrote below was a quote fromu > the article... >sI > > HP has introduced Opteron servers and tells that it wont dent ItaniummE > > sales. Opterons are available with Linux and later on on Windows.?- > > Itanium is dedicated to high end only....g >g: > I guess the low voltage versions of Itanium don't count?   Not really.e   > 0 > Deerfield (low voltage McKinley) for instance?  F An excellent example.  The 1 GHz Deerfield is indeed comparable to theK McKinley in performance (a bit less than the 3 MB McKinley, a bit more thanaI the 900 MHz McKinley).  In other words, not really competitive today.  ByoC contrast, the low-voltage 246 Opteron offers commercial performance G comparable to the 1.5 GHz full-boat Madison - using only about half thee power (55W vs. 107W).    ...a  ' > But it isn't as if Itanium is broken.   H No - more like it had about 6 fathoms of chain wrapped around it and had just been tossed over the side.r     Montecito conservatively+ > does 2000 SpecInt2000 and 2800 SpecFp2000c  @ My, you're full of shit today, Rob.  Here the 90 nm. Prescott isG hard-pressed to *equal* the performance (and clock rate) of its 130 nm.eL Northwood ancestor, and you're predicting at least a 50% SPECint performance2 boost for the 130 nm. -> 90 nm. Itanic transition.    and given it has A > 24 MByte L3 and geared towards commercial computing it ought to  > be a shocker with TPC.  J You mean it might actually offer more than half the TPC-C performance of a9 POWER4+ core again?  Too bad - POWER5 is about to appear.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:55:38 GMTi& From: Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com>C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!e& Message-ID: <403DFA40.CE85330B@hp.com>   glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: > : > Will itanic prices go down now that intel is dumping it?  > Intel hasn't dumped anything yet, according to their website. " These are Intel's words, not mine!  7 http://www.intel.com/technology/64bitextensions/faq.htmh7 -------------------------------------------------------H  L    "We offer two architectures and will continue to invest in both. Keep in J     mind that 64-bits alone does not significantly change the fundamental I     features or performance of a processor... These markets require much cL     more than just 64-bits - the scalability and reliability of the Itanium $     processor family are paramount."   andi  H    "The Itanium processor family is and will continue to be the highest G     performing and most reliable product family we offer for high-end, a     multi-processor systems."    and   F    "64-bit extension technology is an extension to Intel's processors E     based on the IA-32 architecture. The Itanium processor family is sD     based on the EPIC architecture. These are two separate families D     of processors based on two different architectures. The Itanium E     processor family is specifically designed for the most demanding n#     mission critical applications."1   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 07:27:47 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)iC Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!	3 Message-ID: <wphusAwUCbYe@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  Y In article <wDs%b.1184$CG.424@news.cpqcorp.net>, Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid> writes:u! > Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote: : >> Another example? Tru64 is the *only* real 64 bit Unix.  > , > What makes something a "real" 64 bit Unix?  D    Mostly the marketing department.  There are, of course, technical@    facts to back it up.  Tru64 uses a flat 64 bit address space.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 07:28:53 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!y3 Message-ID: <GPusqCwRz4W4@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <1040226204146.15727E-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:r > @ > I just received a bunch of CDs on Tuesday with "HP OpenVMS I64J > Evaluation Release Version 8.1 SDK" on the cover letter.  Unfortunately,F > I don't have an Itanium system to run it on...  I think they shipped' > them to all DSPP VMS SDK subscribers.o  H    Someday all those RX2600 will show up on Ebay.  Will the CD be stable     enough to still read by then?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:54:45 GMTo& From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!m0 Message-ID: <9as%b.1183$Ef.595@news.cpqcorp.net>  : Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote: > Rick Jones wrote:tD >> The tradeoffs between CPU/Memory/IO sound rather like the SunFire >> systems.   = > No they are not, A SunFire system can have 72 CPU's, 576 GBS7 > or RAM and 18 I/O controllers without any tradeoffs.    = Perhaps we are talking about different variants of tradeoffs.s  E What about the "MaxCPU" stuff - if I've read the stuff I've been ablenE to find thusfar correctly, those go into IO slots.  Doesn't that meantF that if one wants Maximum CPU count on the 15K one has to give-up I/O?  > >> If they can actually then drive that I/O out the PCI slots.  @ > Of course but then as you would also know Sun has demonstratedA > 12.5 GB/s on a table scan from an Oracle DBMS sustained throughB6 > the older I/O subsystem for the F15K what can you do  E The E15K specs sheet on www.sun.com claims the IO is "up to 21.6 GB/s 
 sustained"  7 http://www.sun.com/servers/highend/sunfire15k/specs.xmll  E > And its sustained I/O that we quote not a marketing BS number basediD > on the number of slots x the speed of the slots which is the tried> > and tested faire for the HP marketing dept as you also know.  % In that same data sheet it also says:e  E   "Up to 72 I/O hot-swappable PCI slots; 36 slots are 66 MHz;36 slotso    are 33 MHz;"t  E But doesn't say how many PCI busses or if those are 32 or 64-bit PCI.   C The "18 channels" also mentioned are I belive the I/O bays, which IjB guess is consistent with the "up to 17 MaxCPU boards" as one would need to leave one I/O bay.  B Interestingly enough, if I assume that each of those PCI slots areD independent busses, each 64-bits wide, and one were to run a PCI busB to 100% of the fequency x width that comes-out at 27 GB/s.  (64x66B being 1/2 GB/s, 32x66 being 0.25 GB/s) That is rather close to theD claim of "up to 21.6 GB/s sustained" which would be an assumption ofE running at 80% - and 21.6/27 is exactly 0.80 which I find remarkable.t  E Sure sounds like some-one in marketing was adding number and speed ofa slots.  D And if indeed, those are _not_ 72 independent PCI busses, the person@ adding the number and speed of slots to get the 21.6 GB/s figure# forgot to take that into account...e  9 Going further, I managed to find the E15K Overview guide:c  I http://www.sun.com/products-n-solutions/hardware/docs/pdf/806-3509-12.pdfn  ? and the way it is written, it sounds like to access memory on aoF CPU/Memory board, there has to be a CPU present for each 8 DIMMs, (theB memory controller being on the CPU and all...)  which suggests youE cannot have a maximum memory configuration without populating each of @ the CPU/Memory cells with CPUs whether you need the CPUs or not.  B  "The CPU/Memory board holds four CPUs. Each CPU has an associatedC   memory subsystem of eight DIMMs, so memory bandwidth and capacitym(   are both scaled up as CPUs are added."   In discussing the I/O it says:  ;  "The common Sun Fire 15K/12K systems hot-swap PCI assemblyaD   architecture has two I/O controllers. Each controller provides oneF   66/33-MHz PCI (peripheral component interconnect) bus and one 33-MHz<   PCI bus for a total of two of each speed on the I/O board.>   Therefore, each I/O assembly has four hot-swap component PCIF   slots. A Sun Fire I/O board has a 2.4 Gbyte per second connection to   the rest of the system."  E Which suggests that there are two PCI busses per I/O board, each witho@ two slots, which means there are only 36 PCI busses not the 72 I? assumed above.  That seems to call into question the "21.6 GB/s % sustained" claim from the specs page.t  F It also suggests that the table scan number you quoted was pushing theC I/O to the limit.  A table scan is reading from mass storage right?rD That means it was DMA write performance, which will be less affected+ by memory latencies than DMA read would be.   . As for the newer 25K, the brief description at@ http://www.sun.com/servers/highend/ also mentions MaxCPU boards.D Calling something "PCI+" is interesting - I guess that is a term Sun$ concocted.  The brief data sheet at:  J http://www.sun.com/servers/highend/sunfire_e25k/sunfire_e25k_datasheet.pdf  B suggests that the I/O cells have been tweaked to have three 66 MHz% slots and one 33 MHz slot as it says:u  E   "Up to 72 hot-swappable PCI+I/O slots; 54 slots are 66 MHz;18 slotst    are 33 MHz"  F But it still does not say anything about the number of PCI busses.  ItF could just as easily be they simply shifted a slot from the 33 MHz busF to the 66 MHz bus, in which case the total I/O through the slots is noB better than the 15K.  Or they could have added another 66 MHz bus.E I'd love a pointer to a URL that clears that up as the 15K equivalents, HW docs don't seem to be up yet for the 25K.  C If indeed there isn't another 66 MHz bus on those I/O boards on thenF 25K, it might be 'PCI+' but the end-result would be doubleplusthesame.  > Inriguingly, for sustained I/O on the 25K, the datasheet says:      "Up to 25.2-GB/sec. sustained"  D Which still sounds like counting slots and frequencies and widths as@ the sums of those is 37.5 and 80% of that is indeed 25.2 GB/s...  < And given that the memory controller(s) is(are) still on theE UltraSPARC-IV chip, along with the two CPUs, the bit about needing toM1 add CPUs to add memory would seem to still apply.P  D So, no, I am not intimately familiar with the 8400, but the high-endB SunFire servers certainly seem to have their share of tradeoffs.    
 rick jones -- 2B firebug n, the idiot who tosses a lit cigarette out his car windowF these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH....   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:50:36 +0100  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! 2 Message-ID: <c1ljli$u0r$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Rob Young wrote:d > In article <vzq%b.127388$jk2.539633@attbi_s53>, glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes: >  >>Joshua Cope wrote: >> >  > I >>>   "64-bit extension technology is an extension to Intel's processors nH >>>    based on the IA-32 architecture. The Itanium processor family is G >>>    based on the EPIC architecture. These are two separate families  G >>>    of processors based on two different architectures. The Itanium gH >>>    processor family is specifically designed for the most demanding & >>>    mission critical applications." >>F >>Well, they could have said that about Alpha.   If the new processorsD >>are cheaper and faster won't many users switch over, even for high >>end servers? >> >  > ; > 	Itanium is supposed to stay ahead of x86 in performance. A > 	Intel publically states that Itanium will reach pricing parity A > 	with Xeon.  The only way to get anyone to move to Itanium fromo? > 	Xeon is to sell it same price and make it faster.  The othereB > 	way would be to kill Xeon.  But they "obviously" can't do that = > 	with AMD selling a competing product.  So Itanium adoptiontE > 	certainly gaines moementum when they hit Xeon pricing (low voltager, > 	models certainly help in several spaces). > : > 	But according to Gartner - 64-bit extended x86 won't be: > 	around forever.  Which is big 64-bit environment in the
 > 	future? > 4 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/35/35839.html > P > "I am by no means an Itanium cheerleader. However I simply do not believe thatP > adding 64-bit addressing puts Xeon/Opteron on par with Itanium - there is moreK > to a processor than the address space it can address. Does 64-bit addressrQ > extension technology slow down Itanium penetration into the high-volume WindowsyL > market (1 and 2-way servers)? Of course it does. But does it knock ItaniumP > completely out of the market? Of course it does not. Do you really think we'llO > be running 32-bit processors in new servers (with 64-bitextensions or not) ins% > the post 2010 time frame? I don't."- >  > < > 	Not putting words in his mouth, but how long does/can you/ > 	support x86 ISA?  I think that is his point.n > 	 > 				Robe >  Look at the reality.  M Quality doesn't count for anything these days. The x86 has never been a very t) good cpu, but it is the most popular one!>  M Or look at Unix. A quote from one of our HP UX gurus: "Unix is very nice for  I students at a university. It was never meant, and should not be used for  4 production. VMS etc. should be used for production".  Q Another example? Tru64 is the *only* real 64 bit Unix. It is highly modular, and >L is considered by many as the best Unix around. So HP kills it, and tries to M stuff all the good bits of Tru64 in the antique monolitic HP UX since it has > more market penetration.  K Windows is junk as we all know. So what do we do with this junk? Use it in n mission critical applications.   Do I need to go on ??w  Q No one here has ever claimed that the 64 bit x86 architecture is better then the eO Itanium. But that doesn't matter. The Itanium is not downwards compatible, and r that does matter.>   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:24:04 GMTy# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>oC Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!iH Message-ID: <oJr%b.21193$Qg7.10027@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Rob Young wrote:E > In article <vzq%b.127388$jk2.539633@attbi_s53>, glen herrmannsfeldt>  > <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes: >> Joshua Cope wrote:A >> >x >>> >>>    "64-bit extension technology is an extension to Intel's? >>>     processors based on the IA-32 architecture. The ItaniumeE >>>     processor family is based on the EPIC architecture. These arenB >>>     two separate families of processors based on two differentC >>>     architectures. The Itanium processor family is specificallyaG >>>     designed for the most demanding mission critical applications."  >>G >> Well, they could have said that about Alpha.   If the new processors-E >> are cheaper and faster won't many users switch over, even for highh >> end servers?M >> >d: > Itanium is supposed to stay ahead of x86 in performance.@ > Intel publically states that Itanium will reach pricing parity@ > with Xeon.  The only way to get anyone to move to Itanium from> > Xeon is to sell it same price and make it faster.  The other@ > way would be to kill Xeon.  But they "obviously" can't do that< > with AMD selling a competing product.  So Itanium adoptionD > certainly gaines moementum when they hit Xeon pricing (low voltage+ > models certainly help in several spaces).c >,9 > But according to Gartner - 64-bit extended x86 won't bee9 > around forever.  Which is big 64-bit environment in thes	 > future?  > 4 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/35/35839.html >sC > "I am by no means an Itanium cheerleader. However I simply do note > believe thatB > adding 64-bit addressing puts Xeon/Opteron on par with Itanium - > there is moretC > to a processor than the address space it can address. Does 64-bitl	 > address>= > extension technology slow down Itanium penetration into thel > high-volume WindowsaD > market (1 and 2-way servers)? Of course it does. But does it knock	 > Itanium>D > completely out of the market? Of course it does not. Do you really
 > think we'll G > be running 32-bit processors in new servers (with 64-bitextensions orl	 > not) in % > the post 2010 time frame? I don't."e >n >s; > Not putting words in his mouth, but how long does/can youi. > support x86 ISA?  I think that is his point.     Just long enough to kill VMS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:33:06 +0100o From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! 2 Message-ID: <c1lpm0$o4n$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Rick Jones wrote:s! > Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:  > 9 >>Another example? Tru64 is the *only* real 64 bit Unix. e >  > , > What makes something a "real" 64 bit Unix? >  > rick jones  J What makes a cpu a 'real' 64 bit cpu, instead of a 32 bit cpu with 64 bit  extensions?a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:46:49 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! / Message-ID: <tgM%b.1249$9r1.8@news.cpqcorp.net>-  P Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: > Rick Jones wrote::C >> What about the "MaxCPU" stuff - if I've read the stuff I've beenbC >> able to find thusfar correctly, those go into IO slots.  Doesn't.F >> that mean that if one wants Maximum CPU count on the 15K one has to >> give-up I/O?r    = > That allows you to have more than 72 CPU's in a F15K if you0@ > want to lose I/O slots. You seem to have missed the difference@ > between this an 8400 which was that you had CPU boards, memory< > boards and I/O boards. If you wanted the maximum number of; > CPU's you could not have the maximum amount of memory etcu > or I/O  F And in the 15K if you want the maximum number of CPUs, you cannot haveD the maximum ammount of I/O, and you cannot have the maximum quantityD of memory without the maximum (near? I didn't look far enough to see0 if the MaxCPU boards had memory) number of CPUs.  1 > In the F25K the maxcpu option no longer exists.f  E You need to get in touch with the website maintainers and get them toeB update the pages.  Their cut and paste job from prevoius pages has, left MaxCPU references in place for the 25K.  A >>>Of course but then as you would also know Sun has demonstrated-B >>>12.5 GB/s on a table scan from an Oracle DBMS sustained through7 >>>the older I/O subsystem for the F15K what can you doR >>   >>  C >> The E15K specs sheet on www.sun.com claims the IO is "up to 21.62 >> GB/s sustained"    @ > As it is and as you will also notice this is not the number of; > PCI slots multipled by indevidual bandwidth of the slots.c  A No, it was some marketroid taking 80% of that figure, and _still_kE getting it wrong because they took the PCI slot count and not the PCIs9 bus count, and the sum of the PCI bus count is 13.5 GB/s.   F Perhaps I make a math mistake somewhere, but can you tell me how it isD possible to have up to 21.5 GB/s of sustained I/O rate when the peakD marketing bandwidth of the I/O busses on the system aren't much more than 1/2 that?  F > So what sort of I/O rate can you sustain through an Oracle DBMS on a
 > SuperDome ?i  ? No idea.  I suppose that if someone were to poke around variousf@ benchmark disclsoures some guesstimates of I/O rates for _those_D workloads could be made.  To my knowledge, HP haven't done "just" anF "Oracle table scan" and published numbers.  BTW, I would be curious to@ know more of the details of that table scan, if you would please3 provide a URL with the details that would be great.o  D > You seem to have spent an inordinate ammount of time not answering. > the question, the fruits of which I have cut  B Which question was that? Superdome I/O rate wasn't queried in yourC retort to my asserion that there were similar (I don't think I saidi1 identical) tradeoffs in high-end SunFire systems.E  F > Again this is incorrect. The E25K and E20K do not have any tradeoffs  E The "if you want the RAM you have to have the CPUs" tradeoff seems toJ remain from the 15K.  
 rick jones -- z= denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance, rebirth...oC                                      where do you want to be today? F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...a   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 23:27:26 -0800. From: mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon)Y Subject: Itanium challenge in top end - Cray's Opteron supercomputer to have 12.000 CPU'sT= Message-ID: <7500353b.0402262327.77b2f969@posting.google.com>S  E Intel has indicated Itanium will concentrate on high end computing to-C platforms where Opteron cannot cope. Cray is buying OcticaBay, that7+ makes Opteron computer having 12.000 CPU's.@  9 So Itanium will be reserved to systems above 12K CPU's :)A  F Seriously speaking, there is no place to hide or preserved to Itanium.C On small systems it is challenged with AMD64 and IAMD64 and on high A end with all the current players (IBM PowerPC, Sun Sparc) and now B including AMD64. According IDC, AMD is already selling Opterons in! factor 2.5-1 compared to itanium.    Me   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 02:36:57 -0500n$ From: "vax,3900" <vax3900@yahoo.com>Y Subject: Re: Itanium challenge in top end - Cray's Opteron supercomputer to have 12.000 Ce: Message-ID: <c1ms2p$d7l$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>   mist dragon wrote:  G > Intel has indicated Itanium will concentrate on high end computing tonE > platforms where Opteron cannot cope. Cray is buying OcticaBay, that>- > makes Opteron computer having 12.000 CPU's.s  / What I heard is 12.000 CPU's, not 12,000 CPU's.    > ; > So Itanium will be reserved to systems above 12K CPU's :)r > H > Seriously speaking, there is no place to hide or preserved to Itanium.E > On small systems it is challenged with AMD64 and IAMD64 and on highlC > end with all the current players (IBM PowerPC, Sun Sparc) and nowlD > including AMD64. According IDC, AMD is already selling Opterons in# > factor 2.5-1 compared to itanium.h >  > Me   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 07:06:29 -0800. From: mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon)Y Subject: Re: Itanium challenge in top end - Cray's Opteron supercomputer to have 12.000 CF= Message-ID: <7500353b.0402270706.4a15cf5f@posting.google.com>k  1 > What I heard is 12.000 CPU's, not 12,000 CPU's.   B Damn, you are right *blush* (looked from crays page). The original- news was incorrect. Itanium still has hope :)h   MV   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:38:16 +0100  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>Y Subject: Re: Itanium challenge in top end - Cray's Opteron supercomputer to have 12.000 C 2 Message-ID: <c1n45p$rmt$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   mist dragon wrote:G > Intel has indicated Itanium will concentrate on high end computing to E > platforms where Opteron cannot cope. Cray is buying OcticaBay, thato- > makes Opteron computer having 12.000 CPU's.t > ; > So Itanium will be reserved to systems above 12K CPU's :)  > H > Seriously speaking, there is no place to hide or preserved to Itanium.E > On small systems it is challenged with AMD64 and IAMD64 and on highiC > end with all the current players (IBM PowerPC, Sun Sparc) and nowtD > including AMD64. According IDC, AMD is already selling Opterons in# > factor 2.5-1 compared to itanium.t >  > Ma  N Just like me, many people are waiting for the new version of the Athlon64. At Q the moment you can only choose between a cheap version with a 64 bit memory bus, MK and a expensive version with a 128 bit memory bus that requires registered PO memory. The new one will have the 128 bit memory bus, but it will use 'normal'  P PC memory. I hope AMD will announce it on the Cebit2004 in Hannover (from 18 to 	 24 March)   K Maybe I'll use it with 3 operating systems, Suse Linux, Windows XP-64, and s4 Charon Vax. It seems Charon Vax loves the Opteron...   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:06:41 GMT . From: "Deep" <deep_mehtaHATESSPAM@hotmail.com>1 Subject: Re: JF Mezei issuing rogue cancels againhI Message-ID: <lWJ%b.11726$ah.2303@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>w  ) Yes it's obviously him that's deranged...    Idiot...  2 "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message2 news:b01f252f8a7d3a990a2a7a3457d1de22@dizum.com...= >> Read below for information on who this deranged psycho is:g   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:27:35 GMT ( From: "~ Darrell  Larose ~" <me@here.eh>! Subject: Re: Just remember, JF...eI Message-ID: <XIG%b.78671$RTW1.19289@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   2 "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message2 news:7a914eb7c24cef255fe990d17fee63cb@dizum.com...J > ....Google as well as the vast majority of ISPs don't honor cancels (forF > exactly the kind of deranged kooks like you who do rogue cancels) so number one,mL > you're wasting your time, and number two, there will be a permanent record ofH > all of this, and it ain't gonna look good for you.  So enjoy yourself. >r8 Too bad that Dizum still allow KOOKS like you to post...   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 09:47:49 -0800- From: phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer)b8 Subject: Re: KGPSA-C and EMC DS-24 M2 SAN Switch Problem< Message-ID: <5ee1d1b7.0402270947.150237f@posting.google.com>  f "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> wrote in message news:<9Wy%b.28020$LD5.24776@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>...: > PhilThayer <phillip_thayer@hotmail.com> wrote in message9 > news:5ee1d1b7.0402260732.616f7a32@posting.google.com...0> > > "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> wrote in message7 >  news:<HA2%b.83497$n62.13845@twister.nyroc.rr.com>... @ > > > "PhilThayer" <phillip_thayer@hotmail.com> wrote in message= > > > news:5ee1d1b7.0402242001.73f39cd3@posting.google.com...nD > > > > We have just purchased an AlphaServer ES40 M2 with a KGPSA-CL > > > > FiberChannel card in it.  I am trying to get connectivity to the EMCM > > > > DAS-24 M2 SAN switch but it doesn't seem to be working.  I am runninggJ > > > > console firmware version 6.6-19 from Nov 2003 and have replace theK > > > > fiber and card already and still no luck.  The EMC people said thatdI > > > > when the switch sees "light" on the fiber cable a blue light williL > > > > light up next to the port I am useing.  But it never lights up and IG > > > > keep getting the message "pga0.0.0.4.1 link down" on the system - > > > > console when I initialize the system.a > > > >rK > > > > Is there something I am missing or not doing properly?  Any help oreB > > > > pointers to the right direction with this would be greatly > > > > appreciated. > > > >  > > > > Thanks,u > > > > Phil > > >sL > > > Some FC cards will not connect to the fabric when the system is at theI > > > console level.  An overt act such as executing a WWIDMGR command or 
 >  bootingN > > > the OS is needed to force the FC port login.  I seem to remember that my >  1Gb3 > > > cards required this but my 2Gb cards did not.u > > >z > > F > > Did not know this.  I did get one suggestion from a good friend toF > > turn AUTONEGOTIATE OFF and set the port speed to 1GB on the switch	 > > port.O > >:' > > Soes that sound like it might work?I > >R > > > Try a: > > >oF > > > >> set mode advanced -or- set mode diag (I can't remember which) > > > >> wwidmgr -show adaptor > > > N > > > If you're getting the "Nvram read failed" messages, you may also want to >  dom > > > a: > >eB > > Not getting this message.  For a while I was getting a messageJ > > something like "Waiting for PGA0 to start....." 12 times then the bootE > > would continue.  Not getting that message anymore though.  Now it ) > > simply says "pga0.0.0.4.1 link down".t > >aH > > When I do a "wwidmgr -show adap" it shows tha adapter and the WWN noD > > problem.  When I do "wwidmgr -show reachability" it doesn't show
 > > anything.a > >  > > >H5 > > > >> wwidmgr -set adaptor -item 9999 -topo fabricT > > >R > >t > > Did that.  No luck. :( > >e > , > Hey Phil.   Hello...   Long time no see... > E > You might have the cables swapped.  Some Fibre cables come from the K > manufacturer in a "twisted" fashion.  You may need to physically swap onee= > pair of the cables in order to get the link lights to work.l > N > All of the DS25's that I got in I had to do the topo fabric bit before I gotK > a link light.  ES47's and 1280's did not seem to have that problem, but ItM > have one ES47 system that I have been working  on tonight that I cannot get N > to boot on the SAN  I think that this one may actually have bad HBA's or PCI > backplane in it. >   E Hey Mike.  It HAS been a while.  Thanks for the advice.  I did try towE swap the cables several times.  Still no luck.  It's starting to make F me a little more crazy than normal.  Anyway,  I am pushing hard on theB EMC people to get out here anc check thinks.  Micke A. said that IF might want to turn off the AUTONEGOTIATE and set the port to 1GB speedF and see what happens.  However, I do not have access to the SAN configB utility and getting the EMC tech support guys here is not so easy.  B When I do the WWIDMGR utility it shows the Topo as FABRIC and nextC Topo as FABRIC so from everything on the VMS side that I can see it: should be working fine.   E I just don't know what dot is not connected in the picture somewhere.s   PT   > 
 > > > See: > > >$ > > >iN > ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/readmes/v6.6/doc/wwidmgr.pd > f  > > >i > > > -Jeffi   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:38:26 +0100g" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>? Subject: looking for Air traffic control simulation programmers 4 Message-ID: <403e5963$0$29924$626a14ce@news.free.fr>  O I'm looking for people who were involved 12 to 15 years ago in the development 0P of an Air Traffic Control Training simulator named EUROSIM for VAX/VMS systems, $ sold by a French company named SEEE.  @ If you have such knowledge, please get in touch with me. Thanks.  % didier dot morandi at freesurf dot frk   D. -- f2 VAXUS - Your new helpful friend in the DEC Family!2 EHQ: 19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France/       Phone: +336 7983 6418 Fax: +335 6154 1928C$                 http://www.vaxus.org   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:01:50 -0500s From: "Ray" <no@spam.me>* Subject: Re: MAIL: How to delete folders ?0 Message-ID: <103sgkh4mtgipa2@corp.supernews.com>  I Here's a fix if you don't want to write a program. This works, but may be7L tedious depending on how many folders you have; and/or slow depending on how much mail you have.r  D Rename your mail subdirectory. Create a new one. Set file to the oldI directory, and move the undamaged folders to the newly created mail file. 7 When you're done, delete the old directories and files.:   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:28:31 GMTr# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a( Subject: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....I Message-ID: <P8p%b.71251$RTW1.21746@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>r  > http://www.sun.com/executives/realitycheck/reality-022504.html  2 Reality Check: Where is HP's Road Map Leading You?G 25.Feb.04--Whether you're driving toward the high performance of 64-bit L computing, higher levels of uptime through clustering, or the flexibility ofL Linux and other industry standards, HP's road map offers you something Sun's doesn't.  
 Confusion.  K This article, the first in a series, takes a closer look at HP's EnterpriseeI processor and operating system strategies--so you can see what's ahead if A you go "the HP way." We'll give you a hint: it's no scenic route.e  E Business-Critical Systems: All Roads Lead to Itanium (...Or Do They?)tL Just keeping track of all of HP's various business-critical server lines hasH been challenging lately. Following its acquisition of Compaq in 2002, HPJ found itself supporting multiple product families, with multiple processorL architectures, running multiple operating systems--including the AlphaServerJ family (launched by DEC, acquired by Compaq, inherited by HP); the NonStopL Kernel line (created by Tandem, bought by Compaq); the PA-RISC family; and aK line of Intel Xeon processor-based servers running everything from HP-UX toj Linux to Microsoft Windows.   E To be fair to HP, the company clearly has been trying to clean up itsyL processor and operating system mess. Last year, HP announced that all of itsL current business-critical servers would transition to Intel's 64-bit Itanium6 processor. That's simple enough. But is it a dead-end?  H In recent months, many analysts and industry observers who have examinedI HP's Itanium strategy have determined that it is deeply flawed. Among the 	 problems:l  K Software applications must be extensively rewritten to run on Itanium. ThatnJ means independent software vendors (ISVs) and internal IT departments mustI incur the time and expense of porting their software to Itanium, which istL still a low-volume, unproven processor architecture. The result: Itanium hasL a very limited library of ISV applications today (around 1000, compared withG more than 12,000 for Sun's SPARC platform running the Solaris Operating3K System), and there is no reason to expect that situation to change quickly.e  F Itanium's performance on 32-bit applications is sluggish, according toL industry reports. In today's data centers, 32-bit applications are still farL more prevalent than 64-bit applications, yet Itanium's performance on 32-bitK applications is "noncompetitive," according to Rick Whittington of AmericanaK Technology Research. Itanium is slow running 32-bit applications because ite; uses emulation technology, which is very compute-intensive.e  @ Itanium's market viability is questionable. Market acceptance ofJ Itanium-based servers has been slow at best: In the third quarter of 2003,B for example, Sun's UltraSPARC technology-based servers out-shippedF Itanium-based servers by more than 15-1, and AMD Opteron-based serversK out-shipped Itanium servers by 2.5-1, according to IDC. "It is not apparentkJ to me that Intel has proven the need for IA-64, or that all today's serverL customers could ever be switched over to Itanium processors," wrote Peter N.K Glaskowsky, Microprocessor Report (October 27, 2003). "If you're a softwareMH maker looking for volume sales, 'The Year of Itanium' may not be a majorL celebration for you," wrote Ashlee Vance of The Register (December 8, 2003).H The problems with Itanium are only a few of the potholes in the road forJ HP's business-critical customers. HP has added considerable complexity andA confusion to the mix with a series of announcements. For example:c  K Delivery of HP-UX 11iv3 has slipped 18 months--from 2004 to the second half-K of 2005. This is a major blow for AlphaServer and PA-RISC customers becausetK it means delayed access to Tru64 clustering, advanced file system features, I and scalability beyond 64 processors. It also means Itanium customers aretC stuck with the current version of HP-UX. And it removes much of thelG incentive for ISVs to do future HP-UX ports. Essentially, it brings the : future--and the relevance--of HP-UX into serious question.    K HP has killed the EV79 chip, which had been promised to provide AlphaServernL customers with a performance boost. This is just the latest of what has beenC a long series of disappointments and broken promises to AlphaServeri
 customers.    K HP has abandoned its own middleware strategy after investing more than $500 J million. For business-critical systems customers, that means regardless ofJ which operating system and processor they choose, they will have to sourceL their middleware from multiple third-party companies, potentially increasingL complexity, expense, and risk. At the same time, HP can no longer completelyF control its own product development, because it will be dependent upon, partners such as BEA, Oracle, and Microsoft.    C Intel's announcement of Nocona, the much-rumored "Yamhill" chip (anpG x86-based processor with 64-bit extensions), may undermine HP's ItaniumnL strategy. "This fateful step will necessarily consign Itanium to low-volume,D high-end computing solutions...," wrote Rick Whittington of American Technology Research.H To summarize, all of HP's business-critical systems customers now face aK difficult choice: incur the disruption and expense of a forced migration to3J an increasingly questionable Itanium architecture now, or wait for further" "announcements" from HP and Intel.  $ Sun: Simple, Consistent, PredictableK Amid all the speculation and second-guessing concerning HP's road maps, one1B thing remains clear: Sun gets you where you want to go without theD complexity, risk, expense, and disruption of HP's forced migrations. Consider the facts:1  C Sun's consistent, cohesive architecture helps protect your previousyF investments and smoothes your road to enhanced processor platforms and operating systems.    L Sun offers advanced hardware and software for 64-bit computing today and has for many years.e    I Sun continues to deliver systems with innovative processor designs and isrJ committed to preserving freedom of choice (UltraSPARC processors, Opteron,
 and Xeon).  K Sun's multithreaded SMP systems are already providing solutions for today'sHL thread-rich network computing environments. And Sun customers can transitionK to Sun's chip multithreading processor-based systems without recompiling or ! rewriting their current software.s  F The Sun Java Enterprise System makes enterprise infrastructure simple, predictable, and affordable.  E Sun solves complex computing issues through R&D, not M&A (mergers andC acquisitions).I If you're still on the HP bandwagon, one compelling option remains beforeo you. The off ramp.  G For more information about Sun's HP Migration solutions to protect youruE investments and clear your way to cost-efficient, predictable network.8 computing, see http://www.sun.com/datacenter/migration/.  
 Stay TunedL Think HP's Enterprise road maps for business-critical systems are confusing?J Wait until you read about HP's strategies for "industry-standard" systems.. That's in our next Reality Check, coming soon.  
 -------------w  J I wonder if Sun's shill, Rick Whittington of American Technology Research,! got paid by Sun to do his 'study.   D Still, you have to admire Sun....they go the distance to maket theirG products and services, and for the most part they do it effectively.Andn? targetting your competitors customers is just one part of that.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:11:06 +0100'  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>, Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....- Message-ID: <c1lcrr$2a9h$1@news.cybercity.dk>c   John Smith wrote:t@ > http://www.sun.com/executives/realitycheck/reality-022504.html >  <snip> >  > -------------u > B > I wonder if Sun's shill, Rick Whittington of American Technology- > Research, got paid by Sun to do his 'study.  >1F > Still, you have to admire Sun....they go the distance to maket their9 > products and services, and for the most part they do it C > effectively.And targetting your competitors customers is just one  > part of that.a  ) I do not see too much to argue with here.k  F As for the Sun angle in the reality check, well IBM could say similars things and be just as accurate.t  G While I usually puke at Andrews pro-Sun/anti-VMS rhetoric, howvere his L analysis of things Itanic has had little to fault it in recent times, and itJ is not substantially different from Dick Whittingtons or the Sun position: enunciated above, or that of a growing number of sceptics.  I Personally I think Sun is in a race to the bottom with HP with respect toPJ the non-Microsoft OS based systems.  Itanic is the anchor that is going toE drown HP and send its customers on an "anything but HP" escape route.v  
 Dr. Dweeb.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 08:47:36 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski), Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0402270847.4dc70b6c@posting.google.com>   [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<403E94F9.E835B1A2@istop.com>.../ > Bob Ceculski wrote:mA > > they forgot to mention that with slowaris you get to join theh > > patch of the week club,c > P > No offense, but when you look at recent VMS patch history, VMS isn't exactly a@ > role model anymore, especially with respect to TCPIP Services.  7 that is why you should be using TCPware or multinet ...o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:00:49 -0700o+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>g, Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....' Message-ID: <403F77C1.9010502@MMaz.com>e   Bob Ceculski wrote:e  \ >JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<403E94F9.E835B1A2@istop.com>... >  o >h >>Bob Ceculski wrote:s >>     >>@ >>>they forgot to mention that with slowaris you get to join the >>>patch of the week club,	 >>>      s >>>aP >>No offense, but when you look at recent VMS patch history, VMS isn't exactly a@ >>role model anymore, especially with respect to TCPIP Services. >>     >> >e8 >that is why you should be using TCPware or multinet ... >    >CK Agreed!  I've been using TCPware for a very long time and it is rock-solid!S   Barryc   -- h  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:51:43 GMT36 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler># Subject: Re: ODBC drivers for MSSQLa@ Message-ID: <99cac86f245e2e6943e1f79634f74d55@news.teranews.com>  < In article <912b238d.0402252128.f88bc82@posting.google.com>,+  joseph_lamb@yahoo.com (Joseph Lamb) wrote:d  C > Is there a way to have a VMS box run a PERL script that queries a  > WIN2k MSSQL server?   H There are at least two ways, and you may or may not need an ODBC driver C as your title implies. For Perl, you need to build and install the  H extensions DBI and either DBD::Sybase or DBD::ODBC.  These can be found  at <http://search.cpan.org>.    G But before you do that, you need some primary building blocks.  If you s@ want to go the ODBC route, you need both a driver manager and a G database-specific driver.  As far as free driver managers, I recommend rH unixODBC, which you can find at <http://www.unixodbc.org>.  Despite the C name, it does work on VMS, though I think its current build script p needs some tweaking.  G Then you need a driver that knows the tabular datastream protocol that tH both Sybase and MS SQL Server speak dialects of.  The only free one I'm D aware of is FreeTDS (see <http://www.freetds.org>) which I recently B ported to VMS.  You can either build FreeTDS with ODBC support by F letting it know that unixODBC is its driver manager at build time, or G you can skip ODBC entirely and use DBD::Sybase directly.  (Despite the  E name, DBD::Sybase works with and is commonly used with MS SQL.) Your wE Perl code will look about the same either way except for the connect n
 statement.  D The foregoing recommendations assume you have a C compiler and some E familiarity with troubleshooting open source builds.  If not, you'll  F probably want to pursue one or more commercial packages.  Even if you H do choose a commercial solution, you'd probably still have to build DBI / and DBD::ODBC yourself if you want to use Perl..  C The commercial ODBC driver managers (such as the one from Attunity iG someone mentioned [but also check out OpenLink and EasySoft]) often do aB not connect directly to the database on the server.  Instead they H communicate with an intermediate driver service on the server, which in D turn communicates with the database.  This potentially introduces a F performance hit, not to mention the license cost and maintenance cost G involved in providing the service on each server that needs it.  There lG are advantages to these products, though, and you'd do well to talk to  4 their sales staffs and see what they can do for you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:43:37 +0100o& From: Gabucino <gabucino@mplayerhq.hu>. Subject: OpenVMS 7.2 patch application trouble9 Message-ID: <20040227094337.GA9719@woodstock.localdomain>    What could be the problem?   $ product show prod tcpip < ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------5 PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    STATEe< ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------9 DEC VAXVMS TCPIP V5.0-9             Full LP     Installedo< ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------ $ product install * N %PCSI-E-APPLYTOERR, product DEC VAXVMS TCPIP, to which maintenance product DEC0 VAXVMS TCPIP_ECO V5.0-113 applies, was not found   -- o Gabucino MPlayer Core Teamt   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:15:41 GMTd6 From: Jeffrey Coffield <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com>0 Subject: Re: Passing a socket to another process= Message-ID: <hcn%b.17359$qA4.1550@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>b   Stanley F. Quayle wrote:/ > On 25 Feb 2004 at 18:14, Greg Zymbaluk wrote:N > F >>I'm trying to pass a connected socket from one process to another. I6 >>am using the sockets API (not $QIO system services). >>H >>Now I'd like for Child to be able to send() and recv() on that socket,E >>but that's where I'm stuck. I tried using the channel number in thelG >>calls to send() and recv() but that doesn't work. I'm guessing that I F >>need to create a new socket that uses that channel that I've created9 >>to the network device, but I don't know how to do that.  >  > G > The channel number is process-specific, and doesn't mean anything to d > any other process. > H > I've done what you want.  You'll have to find the device name for the E > connected socket, and pass that to the child.  The child will need eF > SHARE privilege to open the socket at the same time as the parent.   > This will require QIO's. > G > This application sounds very Unix-like.  Perhaps you should consider cG > going multi-threaded using AST's.  Or at least by using the "select" t: > socket call.  I've done both -- AST's are the way to go. >  > --Stan Quaylea > Quayle Consulting Inc. >  > ----------E > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671m3 > 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 ? > Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.como >  > F I am having trouble getting this to work as the example from DSIN has H some problems. Can you provide a sample of the QIO calls to set this up?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:27:39 -0500a2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>0 Subject: Re: Passing a socket to another process. Message-ID: <403EFF7B.27318.200C0EB@localhost>  0 On 26 Feb 2004 at 14:15, Jeffrey Coffield wrote:B > >>Now I'd like for Child to be able to send() and recv() on thatH > >>socket, but that's where I'm stuck. I tried using the channel number@ > >>in the calls to send() and recv() but that doesn't work. I'mF > >>guessing that I need to create a new socket that uses that channelG > >>that I've created to the network device, but I don't know how to don	 > >>that.o > > E > > I've done what you want.  You'll have to find the device name foriE > > the connected socket, and pass that to the child.  The child willtC > > need SHARE privilege to open the socket at the same time as thea% > > parent.  This will require QIO's.l > > G > I am having trouble getting this to work as the example from DSIN hasuF > some problems. Can you provide a sample of the QIO calls to set this > up?n  D I don't have that code available at the moment.  Why don't you post 2 what you have?  It might be easier to fix first...  
 --Stan Quayler Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671.1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147r= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comr   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:50:29 GMTp& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>0 Subject: Re: Passing a socket to another process8 Message-ID: <c1gs30d2hl6gg9mtg9a1fvesedg9gp3hcj@4ax.com>  I On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:14:50 GMT, Greg Zymbaluk <greg@no.spam.com> wrote:k   >Greetings,> > I >I'm trying to pass a connected socket from one process to another. I am  2 >using the sockets API (not $QIO system services). >w' >I have 2 C programs, parent and child.h >o? >Parent process creates a listener socket and accepts incoming sD >connections. When a connection comes in (via accept()) it gets the F >device name using SYS$GETDVIW and then creates the child process. It 8 >then passes the device name to the child via a mailbox.  B couldn't you just create the child process with the input & output> parameters specifying the socket device name that was created?     --- jls>0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:54:41 -0800i# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>- Subject: Power Button on PWS9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIIEDHCOAA.tom@kednos.com>a  ? I have three of these, 2 running VMS and 1 running Tru64.  Upon6K reestablishing power after outage the one running Unix automaticvally comesiL up, the other two I have to manually depress the switch.  Is there perhaps a Bios setting to correct this?   Tom" ---f& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:34:45 -0700C6 From: "Phillip D. Williams" <dwilliams296@comcast.net>& Subject: problems with tcpip log files0 Message-ID: <j8-dncCrI9IE-6PdRVn-hg@comcast.com>   Hello / Version Tcpip V5.1 eco 5 VMS 7.3 system 3100-85m Problemf$ When ever the ftp server is ran  theC sys$sysdevice:[tcpip$ftp]:tcpip$ftp_run.log is not being updated. ImL stop/started the service - even did a reboot on the system with no effect. IJ compared the settings with another system and everthing looks the same. Is" there something I am over looking. APACHE> ucxd TCPIP> show services ftp/fulln   Service: FTP-                            State:     EnabledeG Port:               21     Protocol:  TCP             Address:  0.0.0.0sI Inactivity:          5     User_name: TCPIP$FTP       Process:  TCPIP$FTPiE Limit:              10     Active:       10           Peak:        11n  , File:         TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$FTP_RUN.COM Flags:        None   Socket Opts:  Rcheck Scheckr0  Receive:            0     Send:               0  K Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct TimO Addr>8  File:        SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG   Security  Reject msg:  not definedt  Accept host: 0.0.0.0a  Accept netw: 0.0.0.0s TCPIP>* APACHE> dir sys$sysdevice:[tcpip$ftp]/size  # Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]b   LOGIN.COM;1                1 TCPIP$FTP_ANONYMOUS.LOG;1o                          135 TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG;1                             0 TCPIP.OLD;1                9   Total of 4 files, 145 blocks.u APACHE> " CANCAN> ucx show services ftp/full   Service: FTP-                            State:     EnabledtG Port:               21     Protocol:  TCP             Address:  0.0.0.0tI Inactivity:          5     User_name: TCPIP$FTP       Process:  TCPIP$FTPoC Limit:              10     Active:      0             Peak:       1i  , File:         TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$FTP_RUN.COM Flags:        None   Socket Opts:  Rcheck Scheckn0  Receive:            0     Send:               0  K Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct TimO Addrl8  File:        SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG   Security  Reject msg:  not definedr  Accept host: 0.0.0.0n  Accept netw: 0.0.0.0s CANCAN> * CANCAN> dir sys$sysdevice:[tcpip$ftp]/size  # Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]e   LOGIN.COM;1                1 TCPIP$FTP_ANONYMOUS.LOG;1                             1 TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG;12                            7   Total of 3 files, 9 blocks.  tks2 phillip    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 07:33:48 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-7 Subject: Re: Secure remote 2-factor user authenticationb3 Message-ID: <xv4Yh0snV+vh@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  n In article <0it%b.22022$Qg7.17641@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:J > Does anyone have knowledge of any 2-factor user authentication solutions& > that are available for use with VMS? > K > I'm thinking about equivalents to things like RSA SecureID / ACEserver oriK > RSA Mobile. Last stuff they have on their web site for VMS is dated 1995.7 > F > Both RSA and Racal Guardata (now Thales e-Security) used to have VMSE > solutions.  It's real nice to be able to run one of the most secure L > operating systems in the world but not have a a remote 2-factor secure way > to get into it.   Sheesh.l >   H    I think Multinet includes current modules to support some of these.  6    Check on that to see if it has the pieces you want.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:11:24 GMTr# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 3 Subject: Secure remote 2-factor user authenticationaH Message-ID: <0it%b.22022$Qg7.17641@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  H Does anyone have knowledge of any 2-factor user authentication solutions$ that are available for use with VMS?  I I'm thinking about equivalents to things like RSA SecureID / ACEserver or0I RSA Mobile. Last stuff they have on their web site for VMS is dated 1995.a  D Both RSA and Racal Guardata (now Thales e-Security) used to have VMSC solutions.  It's real nice to be able to run one of the most secure J operating systems in the world but not have a a remote 2-factor secure way to get into it.   Sheesh.2   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 15:47:01 +0100s- From: "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de>c7 Subject: Re: Secure remote 2-factor user authentication 9 Message-ID: <c1nl9b$1kk144$1@ID-56200.news.uni-berlin.de>h   Bob Koehler wrote: > "John Smith" writes:A >> Does anyone have knowledge of any 2-factor user authenticationi1 >> solutions that are available for use with VMS?h >>  ? >> I'm thinking about equivalents to things like RSA SecureID /:F >> ACEserver or RSA Mobile. Last stuff they have on their web site for >> VMS is dated 1995.  >>  G >> Both RSA and Racal Guardata (now Thales e-Security) used to have VMS2F >> solutions.  It's real nice to be able to run one of the most secureB >> operating systems in the world but not have a a remote 2-factor' >> secure way to get into it.   Sheesh.  > E > I think Multinet includes current modules to support some of these.   > TCPware has it as well. But AFAIK, it's only included "as-is",) because RSA doesn't support VMS any more.   5 > Check on that to see if it has the pieces you want.D  A FYI: It runs under the names "Token Authentication" (TCPware) ande "Secure/IP" (MultiNet).i   cu,e   Martin -- e@   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules!3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.denF    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:19:21 -05004& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>. Subject: Re: Securing SYSTEM from TCPIP access8 Message-ID: <ni8s30hc2c0anhtt0osg4rfv6br6ai3gv8@4ax.com>  K On 25 Feb 2004 07:18:59 -0600, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob  Koehler) wrote:r  E >   Setting the DISUSER flag on the SYSTEM account will not interferelF >   with normal operations, but will prevent interactive use of SYSTEM >   from anywhere except OPA0.  O Bob, setting the DISUSER flag on the SYSTEM account will also prevent all modesyJ of access (not just interactive, if you were implying that) from anywhere,L including OPA0, won't it? The only way of which I am aware to gain "special"N access from OPA0 is via the UAFALTERNATE SYSGEN parameter (or, more obscurely, SET /STARTUP OPA0).oI -------------------------------------------------------------------------MI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comsI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)rI -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 12:26:25 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o. Subject: Re: Securing SYSTEM from TCPIP access3 Message-ID: <zHY+8goL83j0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <ni8s30hc2c0anhtt0osg4rfv6br6ai3gv8@4ax.com>, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> writes:s > Q > Bob, setting the DISUSER flag on the SYSTEM account will also prevent all modes"L > of access (not just interactive, if you were implying that) from anywhere,N > including OPA0, won't it? The only way of which I am aware to gain "special"P > access from OPA0 is via the UAFALTERNATE SYSGEN parameter (or, more obscurely, > SET /STARTUP OPA0).s  C    It will block SYSTEM from logging in via the network, batch, ... D    But it will not block the STARTUP process from starting essential*    peices of VMS under the SYSTEM account.  H    It will allow the SYSTEM account to log into OPA0.  I've done this on=    a system who's sole purpose was to run a DECnet firewall. u     UAFALTERNATE is not required.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:08:29 -0500l* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>. Subject: Re: Securing SYSTEM from TCPIP access) Message-ID: <403E523B.5D73C29F@istop.com>_   Bob Koehler wrote:S > > Bob, setting the DISUSER flag on the SYSTEM account will also prevent all modes   E >    It will block SYSTEM from logging in via the network, batch, ...7F >    But it will not block the STARTUP process from starting essential, >    peices of VMS under the SYSTEM account.  H I rememeber seing a message from a VMS engineer a while ago stating that$ DISUSERing SYSTEM was not supported.  H Also, if your startup procedures spawn subprocesses, would disuser cause
 problems ?  J In my startup, I also submit a series a software startups to a batch queueM with execution limit of 1 (so they execute in order). DISUSER of SYSTEM would F block that. (Although i guess I could use /USER to point it to another privileged user).i  K Here is another twist: how difficult would it be to code in SYSGEN a systemoI parameter that defines which username to use for all the core stuff ? (bytL default it would be SYSTEM, but you could change it to another username with proper UIC and privileges)   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 04:36:38 -08006 From: andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com (Andrew Rycroft)H Subject: Sizing bandwidth for Disaster Tolerant cluster inter site links= Message-ID: <58ba0101.0402270436.12497d9f@posting.google.com>h   Hi,c  9 I would really appreciate if anybody can advise me here. t  E We plan to implement a disaster tolerant cluster with OpenVMS. I havedD now been asked to size the require bandwidth to meet the applicationD needs. The 2 sites are about 10km apart, and we can put in a managedD fibre link, but it is very expensive. We have 2 disks that we intendC to volume shadow across the 2 sites. The average IO rate on the one / disk is 100 IO/sec, and on the other 50 IO/Sec.h  B I have seen various presentations where OPenVMS can be directed toD read from the local disks, but I do not know how I can differentiate< between reads and writes in the IO rate on a per disk level.  B Any advice on how to size the correct intersite bandwidth required8 that will not degrade performance would be appreciated ?   Thanks Andrew   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:57:35 -0500g' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>iL Subject: RE: Sizing bandwidth for Disaster Tolerant cluster inter site linksR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB279241@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----B > From: Andrew Rycroft [mailto:andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com]=20! > Sent: February 27, 2004 7:37 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com B > Subject: Sizing bandwidth for Disaster Tolerant cluster inter=20 > site links >=20 > Hi,  >=20= > I would really appreciate if anybody can advise me here.=20o >=20: > We plan to implement a disaster tolerant cluster with=20A > OpenVMS. I have now been asked to size the require bandwidth=20t> > to meet the application needs. The 2 sites are about 10km=20B > apart, and we can put in a managed fibre link, but it is very=20? > expensive. We have 2 disks that we intend to volume shadow=20t? > across the 2 sites. The average IO rate on the one disk is=20c) > 100 IO/sec, and on the other 50 IO/Sec.n >=20; > I have seen various presentations where OPenVMS can be=20 A > directed to read from the local disks, but I do not know how=20s@ > I can differentiate between reads and writes in the IO rate=20 > on a per disk level. >=20> > Any advice on how to size the correct intersite bandwidth=20C > required that will not degrade performance would be appreciated ?d >=20 > Thanks > Andrew >=20   Andrew,h   Re: multi-site info..f  C Wrt to bandwidth, you are correct that with an OpenVMS cluster, one F typically configures shadow sets to read from the local members of theD shadow set. Only writes (updates) are propagated to the remote site,F hence the read-write ratios are a factor to consider in the link speed
 requirements.m  ! A few pointers for consideration:   F http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/fibre/fc_hbvs_dtc_wp.pdf (multi-site OpenVMS WP).? http://www2.openvms.org/kparris/ (Keith Parris's presentations) H http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732FINAL/DOCUMENTATION/PDF/aa-pvxmj-te.PDF (V7.3-2 shadowing doc)   Regardsc  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660w Fax: 613-591-4477o Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcomv/ (remove the DOT's and AT for email address) =20    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 15:19:37 GMT ( From: "konabear" <maurert@ameritech.net>L Subject: Re: Sizing bandwidth for Disaster Tolerant cluster inter site links? Message-ID: <deJ%b.6257$t16.4327681@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>l  I Also the amount of shadowed data should be considered.  In the event thateJ the sites are separated or a node crashes, shadow copies and shadow mergesJ will happen.  The size and latency of the inter-site pipe will dictate howK long the copies or merges will take. Design the storage to only shadow thate which needs to be shadowed.g  L Also note that it is faster to shadow copy when the target disk is local and the master disk is remote.   Todd  2 "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB279241@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net...   > -----Original Message-----? > From: Andrew Rycroft [mailto:andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com]i! > Sent: February 27, 2004 7:37 AMo > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ? > Subject: Sizing bandwidth for Disaster Tolerant cluster inter  > site links >  > Hi,< >o: > I would really appreciate if anybody can advise me here. >-7 > We plan to implement a disaster tolerant cluster withe> > OpenVMS. I have now been asked to size the require bandwidth; > to meet the application needs. The 2 sites are about 10kmo? > apart, and we can put in a managed fibre link, but it is very < > expensive. We have 2 disks that we intend to volume shadow< > across the 2 sites. The average IO rate on the one disk is) > 100 IO/sec, and on the other 50 IO/Sec.  >s8 > I have seen various presentations where OPenVMS can be> > directed to read from the local disks, but I do not know how= > I can differentiate between reads and writes in the IO rateh > on a per disk level. > ; > Any advice on how to size the correct intersite bandwidthlC > required that will not degrade performance would be appreciated ?f >' > Thanks > Andrew >i   Andrew,l   Re: multi-site info..g  C Wrt to bandwidth, you are correct that with an OpenVMS cluster, onesF typically configures shadow sets to read from the local members of theD shadow set. Only writes (updates) are propagated to the remote site,F hence the read-write ratios are a factor to consider in the link speed
 requirements.c  ! A few pointers for consideration:t  F http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/fibre/fc_hbvs_dtc_wp.pdf (multi-site OpenVMS WP) ? http://www2.openvms.org/kparris/ (Keith Parris's presentations) H http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732FINAL/DOCUMENTATION/PDF/aa-pvxmj-te.PDF (V7.3-2 shadowing doc)   Regardsu  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanti HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477i Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcomo+ (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:21:53 GMTr# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>l2 Subject: Sun Expands Program Aimed at HP CustomersI Message-ID: <B2p%b.71108$RTW1.37249@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>d  / Sun Micro Expands Program Aimed at HP Customerse Wed Feb 25,12:02 AM ET  F SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Network computer maker Sun Microsystems Inc.C (NasdaqNM:SUNW - news) said on Wednesday it was expanding a programeG originally aimed at customers of Hewlett-Packard Co.'s Alpha chip-based H computers to include those that use HP's version of the Unix (news - web sites) operating system.  G Sun also said that more than 80 customers have taken advantage of Sun's G original HP Away program and moved to Sun's computers. Sun launched thedD initial HP Away program in July 2003, aiming at HP (NYSE:HPQ - news)B customers who use its AlphaTru64 computing platform, which HP will ultimately phase out.v  G HP is phasing out its proprietary microprocessors in favor of so-calledmJ industry standard x86 chips made by Intel Corp. (NasdaqNM:INTC - news) andI Advanced Micro Devices (NYSE:AMD - news). It is also a close partner withnD Intel on the chipmaker's Itanium 64-bit chip, which HP co-developed.  J As expected, HP also announced on Tuesday that it would soon begin sellingH computer servers that use AMD's 64-bit Opteron processors, which for now/ compete mainly with Intel's pricier Xeon chips.   E Santa Clara, California-based Sun's move -- now going after its HP-UXoH customers -- is part of a tit-for-tat game the two Silicon Valley rivals have played in the last year.e  G In October 2003, Palo Alto, California-based HP targeted Sun, which was)K struggling more at that time than it is now, offering Sun customers $25,000mI in free services to switch to HP computers that run the Linux (news - webt sites) operating system.  B Sun, at the time, dismissed HP's move as a public relations stunt.  K An HP spokesman could not immediately reached for comment on the latest Suno move.   G In its most recent quarter, while Sun's revenue fell slightly year overUH year -- to $2.89 billion from $2.92 billion year over year -- sales grewI almost 14 percent from the prior quarter, the largest such increase sinced 1998.a  L "We're going to go for it, as I'm sure IBM will as well," said Larry Singer,' Sun's head of global market strategies.u  L "We'll do a workshop for you on what it'll take to migrate (to Sun)," SingerK said. "You don't pay for anything until we've migrated you and you have the  benchmarks agreed upon."  C Singer said it made sense to expand the offer to include HP's HP-UXhA customers, because that operating system now runs only on ItaniummL processors, and that market has been slower to develop than Intel had hoped.  I Sun has so far recognized between $50 million and $100 million in revenuedK from the original HP Away program, Singer said, adding that the final tallysL will rise to about $200 million once it recognizes all the revenue under the applicable accounting rules.   ----  I I guess HP just doesn't need the money. I'm glad they are subsidizing Sune	 this way.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:32:54 -0500o' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>m6 Subject: RE: Sun Expands Program Aimed at HP CustomersR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB279269@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   -----Original Message------ > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20e" > Sent: February 26, 2004 11:22 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms4 > Subject: Sun Expands Program Aimed at HP Customers >=20H > Sun Micro Expands Program Aimed at HP Customers Wed Feb 25,12:02 AM ET >=20H > SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Network computer maker Sun Microsystems Inc.@ > (NasdaqNM:SUNW - news) said on Wednesday it was expanding a=20= > program originally aimed at customers of Hewlett-Packard=20h? > Co.'s Alpha chip-based computers to include those that use=20,& > HP's version of the Unix (news - web > sites) operating system. >=209 > Sun also said that more than 80 customers have taken=20o= > advantage of Sun's original HP Away program and moved to=20tA > Sun's computers. Sun launched the initial HP Away program in=20s@ > July 2003, aiming at HP (NYSE:HPQ - news) customers who use=20H > its AlphaTru64 computing platform, which HP will ultimately phase out. >=20; > Sun has so far recognized between $50 million and $100=20cA > million in revenue from the original HP Away program, Singer=20v> > said, adding that the final tally will rise to about $200=209 > million once it recognizes all the revenue under the=20e > applicable accounting rules. >=20 > ---- >=20> > I guess HP just doesn't need the money. I'm glad they are=20 > subsidizing Sun this way.  >=20   John,a  B Well, if one looks at what recent press is saying, I would say Sun' *needs* to start getting aggressive ...r   :-)t  E http://news.com.com/2100-1010-5165213.html?tag=3Dcd_top (February 25,s 2004) % IBM rises, Sun sinks in server marketv  G "Update: IBM widened its lead in the worldwide server market in 2003 atsD the expense of Sun Microsystems, making particular gains in the Unix# server market, new figures show.=20o  D Server revenue for IBM grew 10 percent to $14.8 billion from 2002 toF 2003, outpacing the overall market's 5 percent growth, market researchC firm Gartner said Wednesday. IBM increased its share 1.7 percentageh: points to 32 percent of the $46.1 billion total market.=20  G In contrast, No. 3 server seller Sun saw its revenue decline 15 percentn@ to $5.4 billion and its share drop 2.8 percentage points to 11.8I percent. No. 2 seller Hewlett-Packard grew 5 percent to $12.5 billion.=20h  G Fourth-place Dell posted the fastest growth, 22 percent, to $4 billion,a> narrowing Sun's lead from 7.2 percentage points in 2002 to 3.2) percentage points in 2003, Gartner said."f   [see url for rest of article..]p   Regardst  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477: Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:33:59 GMTh# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>i6 Subject: Re: Sun Expands Program Aimed at HP CustomersH Message-ID: <bcL%b.36730$Qg7.19504@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Main, Kerry wrote: > -----Original Message-----+ >> From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com].# >> Sent: February 26, 2004 11:22 AMr >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com5 >> Subject: Sun Expands Program Aimed at HP Customerst >>F >> Sun Micro Expands Program Aimed at HP Customers Wed Feb 25,12:02 AM >> ETm >>D >> SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Network computer maker Sun MicrosystemsC >> Inc. (NasdaqNM:SUNW - news) said on Wednesday it was expanding a ; >> program originally aimed at customers of Hewlett-Packardi= >> Co.'s Alpha chip-based computers to include those that usee' >> HP's version of the Unix (news - webf >> sites) operating system.s >>7 >> Sun also said that more than 80 customers have takenn; >> advantage of Sun's original HP Away program and moved tot? >> Sun's computers. Sun launched the initial HP Away program ins> >> July 2003, aiming at HP (NYSE:HPQ - news) customers who useD >> its AlphaTru64 computing platform, which HP will ultimately phase >> out.- >>9 >> Sun has so far recognized between $50 million and $100 ? >> million in revenue from the original HP Away program, Singere< >> said, adding that the final tally will rise to about $2007 >> million once it recognizes all the revenue under thew >> applicable accounting rules.3 >> >> ----o >>< >> I guess HP just doesn't need the money. I'm glad they are >> subsidizing Sun this way. >> >  > John,t >wD > Well, if one looks at what recent press is saying, I would say Sun) > *needs* to start getting aggressive ...y >e > :-)i    I Well if HP heard its customers, it too would be aggressive in advertising J and marketing OpenVMS to new customers, and it wouldn't have to worry much8 about the likes of Sun trying to woo its customers away.  K At current rates of attrition and lack of marketing of VMS, it won't be too0L long now before the rest of the ISV's who still supply products into the VMS market decide to move on.9  H HP is fond of saying that it is apps which sells VMS - when there aren'tI any....I'll leave it to the HP marketing rocket scientists to finish this 	 sentence.u    E and yes, I did notice your smiley - that's why I was being gentle :-)i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:16:28 +0100o( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>$ Subject: Support of USB Memory stick3 Message-ID: <000901c3fd23$255891b0$994614ac@wat153>e   Hello,  @ Is there some support for USB memory sticks under OpenVMS 7.3-1?   Best regards Rudolf Wingerti   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 03:18:21 -0800* From: RaoulGough@yahoo.co.uk (Raoul Gough)+ Subject: Re: Unable to paste at LSE prompts = Message-ID: <a3390f41.0402270318.24dd4c3d@posting.google.com>   b ohm62@hotmail.com (OHM) wrote in message news:<9d337b47.0402261015.27624f9d@posting.google.com>...% > It works using PLSE (portable LSE):5 > $ > LSE> SET COMMAND LANGUAGE PORTABLE >  > E > ... and then you can copy from buffers or from the command line andh' > paste to the command line at will ...e > E > I vote for PLSE best programmer's editor of the year(s to come...;)e  > Hmmmm... this works, but I'd have to relearn various commands.D Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to fix the problem at the find prompt@ (I still get "has no definition at prompts" if I try to paste at "Search for: ").  E Does PLSE do more than VMS LSE or is it just a different interface tod the same facilities?   -- . Raoul Gough.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 03:23:59 -0800* From: RaoulGough@yahoo.co.uk (Raoul Gough)+ Subject: Re: Unable to paste at LSE promptsa= Message-ID: <a3390f41.0402270323.7071903e@posting.google.com>e  r martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby) wrote in message news:<224291b.0402260945.6c59c8fe@posting.google.com>...2 > Yes, LSE is actively maintained (but not by me). >  SE > I've added a note into the internal LSE wish list to reference thisD
 > request.   Thanks!t   > H > LSE is not built on EVE but rather on TPU. However, some of the source@ > in LSE is that from EVE many years ago. There have been recentE > attempts to bring LSE upto more recent EVE sources so this may be arF > good time to address this. Also, LSE sometimes replaces EVE routines& > rather than building on top of them.  D I see. I'd always assumed it was a straight add-on, but I guess it'sC inevitable that the sources would diverge with time. From what I'veaD seen in various organisations, EVE seems to be more widely used thanE LSE, but I guess I'd have to give up COMPILE/REV if I made the switch ( (and learn some different key bindings).   -- t Raoul Gough.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 04:02:17 -0800* From: RaoulGough@yahoo.co.uk (Raoul Gough)+ Subject: Re: Unable to paste at LSE prompts = Message-ID: <a3390f41.0402270402.7546529c@posting.google.com>t  r martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby) wrote in message news:<224291b.0402260945.6c59c8fe@posting.google.com>...2 > Yes, LSE is actively maintained (but not by me). >  lE > I've added a note into the internal LSE wish list to reference thism
 > request.  ? It looks like I gave up too early in trying to fix this via thetE key_map_lists! AFAICT, the following LSE commands make cut/paste etc.  work at prompts:  I tpu add_key_map("LSE$CMD_WINDOW_KEY_MAP_LIST","last","EVE$STANDARD_KEYS")-B tpu add_key_map("LSE$CMD_KEY_MAP_LIST","last","EVE$STANDARD_KEYS")  > It took me a while to figure out which of the lists needed theE additional keys (my LSE has 19 key_map_lists), but then I noticed theu; error message "Attempt to move past the beginning of buffer-> $COMMAND_LSE" after switching to command language portable (as@ suggested earlier by OHM). With the default VMS command languageB setting the same error message is for a buffer called "$COMMANDS",# which has a different key_map_list:-  4 tpu message(get_info(get_info(buffer,"find_buffer",-#   "$COMMAND_LSE"),"key_map_list")) R  7 LSE$COMMAND_KEY_MAP_LIST   ! key_map_list when PORTABLEC  4 tpu message(get_info(get_info(buffer,"find_buffer",-   "$COMMANDS"),"key_map_list"))   5 LSE$CMD_WINDOW_KEY_MAP_LIST   ! key_map_list when VMS4  < So then with "tpu show(key_map_lists)" it's easy to see thatD LSE$CMD_WINDOW_KEY_MAP_LIST is missing the EVE$STANDARD_KEYS. As forE the find prompt, I got LSE$CMD_KEY_MAP_LIST more or less by a process E of elimination. Maybe this info will help somebody else searching thei	 archives.a   -- t Raoul Gough.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 09:27:41 -0800% From: tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams)i2 Subject: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas= Message-ID: <ea44f5a1.0402270927.132a695b@posting.google.com>i   We have:   2 AlphaStations 400 4/233t 1 AlphaServer  800 5/333
 1 DS10 466   And we are getting:w
 1 DS10 600  F And, our management decided to drop hardware maintenance a while back.  F I want to propose to my management that we get UPSes for all of these.  H We don't need UPS for uptime, since all these system control other stuffH that goes down when the power fails.  But I think UPSes would reduce ourL hardware repair and replacement costs, and would reduced the likelihood that: a system would become flakey and start failing during use.  B Is this justified?  Do you know of any info that would justify it?  I Are there power conditioning solutions that are less expensive than UPSess that I should consider?k   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:57:14 -0600 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)6 Subject: Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas1 Message-ID: <04022711571458@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>r   tadamsmar@yahoo.com writes: H > And, our management decided to drop hardware maintenance a while back.  M As long as there is failover capability and redundancy built into the serversu3 and storage then that is not too much of a problem.   L I would suggest that you contact your vendors (new and refurbished) and workK out a disaster incident plan with them.  It could be as simple as having anoI established relationship or as complex as keeping items in stock for you.e    H > I want to propose to my management that we get UPSes for all of these. > J > We don't need UPS for uptime, since all these system control other stuffJ > that goes down when the power fails.  But I think UPSes would reduce ourN > hardware repair and replacement costs, and would reduced the likelihood that< > a system would become flakey and start failing during use. > D > Is this justified?  Do you know of any info that would justify it?  I Having a UPS is a good idea - if not for nothing more than to allow for ao graceful shutdown.  M I have lost VMS servers through a series of events (loss of power, lightening M storms, pulled plugs, failed hardware, stupid users, etc.) however I have nottN lost data on them.  This did not mean that we are/were exempt from that - just the turn of the card.   K I do recommend the UPS - ones that have sufficient capacity to allow you top login and shutthem down.  K > Are there power conditioning solutions that are less expensive than UPSes- > that I should consider?P  D Power conditioning?  I would believe that gets into the bucks there.     J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*nr VMS Systems Administrators* firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 03:31:45 -0800- From: martin.walker@csf.co.uk (Martin Walker)RY Subject: Re: Upgrading VMS on a system where hardware is newer than the system disk OS su.= Message-ID: <2462c4e9.0402270331.6630d2e8@posting.google.com>o  A Done this several times and I can't remember having any problems.e  B Don't forget to deal with any files on the system disk which mightC change between when you take your copy and go live (e.g. SYSUAF andd	 friends).r   Martin    k jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) wrote in message news:<cc5619f2.0402261407.4d6ebda8@posting.google.com>...tG > Here's a new one for us.  I've never had this come up, and I can't do.E > a test run due to lack of hardware.  We have a customer with a DS10nB > running V7.2-1.  They're going to upgrade to a DS15, which has aF > minimum VMS requirement of V7.3-1 (plus TIMA).  There is a miniscule > downtime window. > D > Since doing a V7.2-1 upgrade to V7.3-1 or newer on the DS10 is notD > feasible due to time, I'm wondering if the following is supported. > E > Image backup the DS10 disks to tape, then restore on the DS15 disks F > using the CD boot environment.  We won't try to boot the DS15 on the > V7.2-1 system disk.g > H > Boot the DS15 with the V7.3-1 (or -2) CD and upgrade the V7.2-1 system1 > disk.  Bring up a happy DS15 with supported OS.l > H > In other words are there any issues upgrading a VMS system disk from aC > version not supported on the hardware being used for the upgrade, G > since we are obviously using a supported version to boot and actuallyV > perform the upgrade? > @ > Seems like there should be no problem, but if anyone knows I'd > appreciate hearing about it. > 
 > Rich Jordan- > CCS-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:47:18 -0500D% From: "repatch" <repatch42@yahoo.com> 8 Subject: Re: USA will self-exterminate within 100 years!( Message-ID: <ucd1h1-6u2.ln1@host.domain>   Plonk...  . "Hal Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net> wrote in message' news:c1jijs$cg3@library1.airnews.net...yC > Are you asking for credit card verification software to talk to as   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 04:51:33 -0500p* From: Jf Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?) Message-ID: <403F1325.22D42D7A@istop.com>s   Didier Morandi wrote:PQ > commercial license to a free one via a so-called "hobbyist" process. I bet thisoJ > person does not know about the Hobbyist program which has, of course, no1 > relationship whatsoever with HP licenses sales.   I In a way, perhaps it is best if the hobbyist programme stays under the HPCC radar, this way, they can't cancel something they don't know about.e   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 05:06:37 -0800. From: al5vf03p02@sneakemail.com (William Webb)4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?= Message-ID: <d5ce4b06.0402270506.6e8d1f9c@posting.google.com>e  g Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote in message news:<403E7B05.20403@Flying-Disk.com>...i< > I just had an e-mail exchange with HP's licensing contact,2 > Madi Braje, as listed on the licensing web page: > 7 >    http://licensing.hp.com/swl/view.slm?page=contacts0 >  >    Madi Braje - West Regiono >    Telephone: 847-781-6756 >    Email: Madi.Braje@hp.comi > = > I was trying to see if I could get the original VMS license ? > for the XP1000 I bought transferred to me.   Since I am goingd? > to be using it to play with Apache, etc., I mentioned that if : > the license couldn't be transferred I would just use the? > hobbyist license.   However, it now appears that the hobbyistM3 > license program has been abolished.   Madi wrote:: > C >  > Digital/Compaq/HP has never distinguished between business and D >  > hobbyist, so the license that transfers with the system, is theF >  > only type available for that particular system.  There is no such& >  > thing as a free hobbyist license. >  > R.I.P. >  > Alan  E I spoke with David Cathey, of MONTAGAR/Hobbyist licensing renown, thetI day before yesterday, about numerous things, including Hobbyist Licenses,NE and if anyone had slammed the door on the Hobbyist Program, he'd have  said something about it.   I promise you this:l   Although I *don't* work for HP--  $ 1. Sue Skonetski shall hear of this." 2. Mark Gorham shall hear of this.( 3. Scott Stallard(1) shall hear of this.$ 4. John Smith(2) shall hear of this.  E And I have complete faith that most, if not all of the people I just dC mentioned will inform this person of the existence, as well as the s< continued viability of the OpenVMS Hobbyist License Program.   WWWebb e    Not sticking my ususal tag here." firstnamelastname at juno dot com.  4 (1) He *is* supportive of VMS- don't get me started!  A (2) I refer to the VMS executive who was extremely involved with eC the creation of the hobbyist program [and the changes made for the RA second iteration thereof] which made it orders of magnitude more .C useable], and WHO IS NOT, by the way, the guy who posts under that nE name from a cable.rogers account and who comes up with all the great oF marketing ideas (although, to give him credit, the "HP Mr. Smith" was D the guy who was responsible for the creation of the VMS shark image 2 from many years ago- you can look it up on c.o.v.)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:13:53 GMTc# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?H Message-ID: <loH%b.34822$Qg7.23252@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   William Webb wrote:n@ > Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote in message* > news:<403E7B05.20403@Flying-Disk.com>...= >> I just had an e-mail exchange with HP's licensing contact,h3 >> Madi Braje, as listed on the licensing web page:R >>8 >>    http://licensing.hp.com/swl/view.slm?page=contacts >> >>    Madi Braje - West Region >>    Telephone: 847-781-6756r >>    Email: Madi.Braje@hp.com >>> >> I was trying to see if I could get the original VMS license@ >> for the XP1000 I bought transferred to me.   Since I am going@ >> to be using it to play with Apache, etc., I mentioned that if; >> the license couldn't be transferred I would just use the @ >> hobbyist license.   However, it now appears that the hobbyist4 >> license program has been abolished.   Madi wrote: >>D >>  > Digital/Compaq/HP has never distinguished between business andE >>  > hobbyist, so the license that transfers with the system, is theiG >>  > only type available for that particular system.  There is no suchh' >>  > thing as a free hobbyist license.  >>	 >> R.I.P.S >> >> Alanu >aG > I spoke with David Cathey, of MONTAGAR/Hobbyist licensing renown, thecA > day before yesterday, about numerous things, including Hobbyist  > Licenses, G > and if anyone had slammed the door on the Hobbyist Program, he'd have  > said something about it. >u > I promise you this:t >m! > Although I *don't* work for HP-e > & > 1. Sue Skonetski shall hear of this.$ > 2. Mark Gorham shall hear of this.* > 3. Scott Stallard(1) shall hear of this.& > 4. John Smith(2) shall hear of this. >eF > And I have complete faith that most, if not all of the people I justD > mentioned will inform this person of the existence, as well as the> > continued viability of the OpenVMS Hobbyist License Program. >e > WWWebb >r" > Not sticking my ususal tag here.$ > firstnamelastname at juno dot com. >l6 > (1) He *is* supportive of VMS- don't get me started! >-B > (2) I refer to the VMS executive who was extremely involved withD > the creation of the hobbyist program [and the changes made for theB > second iteration thereof] which made it orders of magnitude moreD > useable], and WHO IS NOT, by the way, the guy who posts under thatF > name from a cable.rogers account and who comes up with all the greatG > marketing ideas (although, to give him credit, the "HP Mr. Smith" waseE > the guy who was responsible for the creation of the VMS shark imaget4 > from many years ago- you can look it up on c.o.v.)    K Thanks for the kudos. People at HP know how to contact me when they want torI do some serious VMS marketing. All they need to do is ask for my Cayman's * bank account number for us to proceed. ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:02:29 -0800-3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>-0 Subject: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?, Message-ID: <403E7B05.20403@Flying-Disk.com>  : I just had an e-mail exchange with HP's licensing contact,0 Madi Braje, as listed on the licensing web page:  5    http://licensing.hp.com/swl/view.slm?page=contacts-      Madi Braje - West Region2    Telephone: 847-781-6756    Email: Madi.Braje@hp.come  ; I was trying to see if I could get the original VMS license = for the XP1000 I bought transferred to me.   Since I am going = to be using it to play with Apache, etc., I mentioned that ifM8 the license couldn't be transferred I would just use the= hobbyist license.   However, it now appears that the hobbyist"1 license program has been abolished.   Madi wrote:p  A  > Digital/Compaq/HP has never distinguished between business andoB  > hobbyist, so the license that transfers with the system, is theD  > only type available for that particular system.  There is no such$  > thing as a free hobbyist license.   R.I.P.   Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:49:39 -0700r+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>S4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?' Message-ID: <403F6713.7010807@MMaz.com>s   Alan Frisbie wrote:e  < > I just had an e-mail exchange with HP's licensing contact,2 > Madi Braje, as listed on the licensing web page: >e6 >   http://licensing.hp.com/swl/view.slm?page=contacts >o >   Madi Braje - West Region >   Telephone: 847-781-6756s >   Email: Madi.Braje@hp.com >c= > I was trying to see if I could get the original VMS licensen? > for the XP1000 I bought transferred to me.   Since I am goingb? > to be using it to play with Apache, etc., I mentioned that ift: > the license couldn't be transferred I would just use the? > hobbyist license.   However, it now appears that the hobbyiste3 > license program has been abolished.   Madi wrote:  >tB > > Digital/Compaq/HP has never distinguished between business andC > > hobbyist, so the license that transfers with the system, is thetE > > only type available for that particular system.  There is no suchh% > > thing as a free hobbyist license.i >r@ In my estimation, this is probably a typical "HP hasn't a clue" E situation where the above mentioned HP mouth piece may not even know tF what VMS is, let alone the details of the hobbyist program.  For that I person to say that the free hobbyist license never existed is just plain lF ignorant, but it doesn't diminish the ultimate question, does HP have C plans to terminate the program that they inherited from Compaq/DEC?      Barry    -- 8  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 08:05:20 -0800+ From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey).4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?= Message-ID: <e565ed03.0402270805.53de92ac@posting.google.com>r  g Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote in message news:<403E7B05.20403@Flying-Disk.com>...l< > I just had an e-mail exchange with HP's licensing contact,2 > Madi Braje, as listed on the licensing web page:  " This just in from John Wisniewski:  C To Para-quote Mark Twain; "News of the OpenVMS Hobbyist's Program's % demise has been greatly exaggerated."e  @ The OpenVMS Hobbyist Program has been providing free OpenVMS andA Layered Product licenses to the OpenVMS user community for over 8 C Successful years.   Thousands of OpenVMS Hobbyists around the world-B have taken advantage Of this Personal Use license program from HP!  F Alan Frisbee's note about the Hobbyist License Program being abolishedD was simply a matter of an HP license Consultant Being unaware of theC program.  In an 80+ billion dollar company it's understandable thatOF not every one knows about all offerings that HP provides (particularlyF the free offerings;-). One phone call, and the Licensing Team has beenD brought up to date on the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program for VAX and AlphaC and as always it's business as usual for the OpenVMS Hobbyist Site.t  D Since 1996 when Pat Jankowiak first asked for just a VMS license forE his home VAX at DECUS, the DFWLUG, David Cathey, Pat Jankowiak, SteveeC Smiley and John Wisniewski have worked with (DEC,CPQ and now HP) totB keep the OpenVMS Hobbyist program available and On the web for theF entire OpenVMS community. In 2004 the current OpenVMS Hobbyist Program@ provides free licenses for personal use for OpenVMS, Clustering,B TCP/IP,And over 100 other OpenVMS layered products on both VAX andD Alpha systems. Many OpenVMS Software Companies Also provide HobbyistE Licenses to enhance your hobbyist education.  Plus there are low costrD OpenVMS distributions that are available exclusively for the OpenVMS hobbyist on our web site.   D We always enjoy your feedback and have taken up requests for variousF retired products to OpenVMS Engineering for Inclusion in this program.F  Please feel free to contact us through the web pages or direct E-mailD if you have questions Or concerns about the OpenVMS Hobbyist program) or have difficulties obtaining a license.e  D Join your Participating User GroupAquire a VAX or an AlphaGet a Free1 Hobbyist License for OpenVMS  It's that simple;-)r   Visit us at:     http://openvmshobbyist.org     http://www.montagar.com      http://www.dfwcug/     http://vmsone.com     < PS:   Be sure to register for the Encompass Web cast by John; Wisniewski March 18th.  The topic is OpenVMS Security 2004!/  # http://www.mindiq.com/ilt/encompass-   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 07:05:38 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)1I Subject: Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?a3 Message-ID: <GTqA6UIr3e0a@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  ] In article <c1j24q$k4k$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>, bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau) writes:a > H > To test this, I copied HOUR_AVERAGE.EXE to another system that is alsoL > running V7.2 of Fortran but is still running VMS 7.1-2.  This way it wouldK > use the RTL on the older system.  I also copied over the input data file. M > When I ran HOUR_AVERAGE, it produced results identical to the Dec 18 run on  > the original system.   > H > Does this clinch it?  Did VMS whack my old RTL on the head and give me > something "improved"?o  	    Bingo.g  G    I'd use backup/list to see if thee are any Fortran RTL's in the lastlB    Fortran compiler kit you installed.  Look for files of the name<    *for*rtl*.exe.  If so, try re-installing the Fortran kit.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:15:52 GMT-& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>I Subject: Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?V0 Message-ID: <scn%b.1145$sb.235@news.cpqcorp.net>   Lawrence Bleau wrote:   F > To assist in this, can you give me the name of the RTL that would beK > responsible for formatting output strings?  The four files I located thatrG > might have something to do with this, with their creation dates, are:   C The routines are CVTAS$x_TO_A where x=F,G,S,T, or X.  They live in d
 LIBRTL.EXE  E They are low-level routines that most(all?) the language RTLs use to aG convert floats to text.  The routines return an ASCII buffer with some nF text digits in it, but leave exact formatting (like where the decimal H place is, what the decimal character, whether a too-large output should : turn into asterisks, etc. to the caller).  Think of it as  partially-cooked result.  > Then a layer above that, you'll find routines with names like @ CVTAS$IEEE_S_TO_TEXT, CVTAS$VAXG_TO_TEXT, etc.  They are also inI LIBRTL.EXE.  They cook the result some more (and is what the Fortran RTL  0 calls).  Not every language uses these routines.     -- o John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leadera Hewlett-Packard Companys   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:47:23 +0000r- From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk>dI Subject: Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this? 8 Message-ID: <i0fu30p708o79ila0h44ma5k4ssm3pnavu@4ax.com>  G On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:31:10 +0000 (UTC), bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrencew
 Bleau) wrote:p  i >In article <miaq309io3pun7u8g41u3rto2td1guirlk@4ax.com>, John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:P >[snip]- >>/ >>Your boss would prefer bugs not to be fixed ?n >>J >>[I am gently poking fun.  But more seriously, you should not place greatD >>faith in the last decimal point.  It is perfectly conceivable thatN >>differences will appear using identical input on different platforms, or theG >>compiler may optimize your code differently between releases yieldingCN >>different answers, or if you re-ordered your input data that might change it >>too. > L >I can agree with all of that, John, except in my case: a) the platforms areL >identical, b) the release of the compiler is identical, and c) the ordering  >of the input data is identical.  A Sure, I was just pointing out how sensitive fp arithmetic can be.a  F >>If you need significance in the 6th or 7th digit, then you shouldn't7 >>be using 4-byte floats.  Switch to double precision.]u >lH >Again, in my case, the difference sometimes shows up in the 3rd decimal >place.y  H Do you mean the 3rd *significant figure* (a distinction I failed to makeK when posting rather late at night) ?  That would be very worrying.  F-floath+ should be good for 6 s.f., but not 7, iirc.i   >Now, on to more info.   >(snip)u >tE >What options does that leave me with for getting the older behavior? I >One, I guess, is installing an upgrade to the Fortran compiler.  I don'tv2 >have a version of Fortran that is later than 7.2.  K I think I got lost in your argument somewhere.  I don't see any good way ofsH getting "older behaviour" on any machines with the bug-fixed RTL.  Don't( even think of copying older rtls on top.  I >I know I should upgrade the 7.3-1 system, and I will , but my point withsK >this post is that does not remedy the problem I have, which is a change in  >the formatting routines.i  E One assumes the "change" is for the better, that is greater accuracy.rK Assuming we are talking about the last available "reliable" digit, I really)H do have to wonder about the need to preserve a particular result for allH time.  If you are claiming significance in this last digit, then I wouldI question your whole methodology - you should be using extended precision,sJ all series to be summed sorted into ascending order first, etc.  Or at theL very least question the sanity of those would give you a hard time for being unable to prevent change.e  # But perhaps I am missing the point.    -- i5 Why do we park in a driveway and drive on a parkway? r   Mail john rather than nospam...u   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:43:57 GMTw& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>I Subject: Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?i2 Message-ID: <NII%b.1226$nf1.1018@news.cpqcorp.net>   Chris Scheers wrote:   > Then, do:t > 7 > 	$ Define/User LIBRTL <full-directory-path>LIBRTL.EXEs > . > immediately before running your application. >   G You'll want more than that.  Since LIBRTL is an installed known image, rI you want a semi-colon on the filename to ensure the image activator uses  ' your side LIBRTL, not the installed onei  A 	$ DEFINE/USER LIBRTL disk:[dir]LIBRTL.EXE;  ! The semi is needed,   --   John Reagant' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader$ Hewlett-Packard Companyn   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:53:46 GMT ( From: "konabear" <maurert@ameritech.net>@ Subject: Re: [DFU V3.0] Any reason why there is no VAX version ?? Message-ID: <KTm%b.5956$t16.4134877@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>,   Brian,  H If you feel THAT STRONG:LY about it, perhaps you'll spend your FREE time updating the sources... ;^)9   ToddE "Tillman, Brian (AGRE)" <Brian.Tillman@smiths-aerospace.com> wrote in- messagemI news:11721EF39C7D7F47A55447158274CAF7AF9CA1@cossmgmbx01.email.corp.tld...M   Ton Dorland wrote:  E > Well, there are features which are only available on OpenVMS Alpha;uE > some of these are used in DFU. Therefore, I did not made a V3.0 DFU=' > for VAX. V2.7A will still do the job.o  B However, the adding of new features for ANY VMS application shouldE ALWAYS include all architectures whenever possible and if the feature A does not apply to the architecture, it should give a message whendG someone attempts to use it on an inappropriate architecture so that theeG same version of an application runs on ALL VMS architectures.  WhateverkG happened to the "VMS is VMS" philosophy to which we all used to adhere?  --
 Brian Tillmann Smiths Aerospace 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS 1B3 Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991P> Brian.Tillman is the name, smiths-aerospace.com is the domain.  : I don't speak for Smiths, and Smiths doesn't speak for me.  * ******************************************F The information contained in, or attached to, this e-mail, may containB confidential information and is intended solely for the use of theK individual or entity to whom they are addressed and may be subject to legal K privilege.  If you have received this e-mail in error you should notify thedK sender immediately by reply e-mail, delete the message from your system andoF notify your system manager.  Please do not copy it for any purpose, orK disclose its contents to any other person.  The views or opinions presentedgD in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarilyK represent those of the company.  The recipient should check this e-mail andsD any attachments for the presence of viruses.  The company accepts noE liability for any damage caused, directly or indirectly, by any virus0 transmitted in this email.* ******************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:28:25 -0500c0 From: "Brian Tillman" <Tillman@sparkingwire.com>@ Subject: RE: [DFU V3.0] Any reason why there is no VAX version ?. Message-ID: <0128CDEF.C22236@sparkingwire.com>   konabear wrote:o  ; > If you feel THAT STRONG:LY about it, perhaps you'll spend. > your FREE time > updating the sources... ;^)   ? If I knew the language in which it was written, I'd be glad to.c -- t
 Brian Tillman    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:17:32 -0600p@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>@ Subject: Re: [DFU V3.0] Any reason why there is no VAX version ?6 Message-ID: <403F7BAB.2943E53B@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Brian Tillman wrote: >  > konabear wrote:r > = > > If you feel THAT STRONG:LY about it, perhaps you'll spend2 > > your FREE time > > updating the sources... ;^)o > A > If I knew the language in which it was written, I'd be glad to.g  E DFU source code was available for the early versions. I'm fairly suren
 it's in C.   -- - David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:07:04 -0500p0 From: "Brian Tillman" <Tillman@sparkingwire.com>@ Subject: RE: [DFU V3.0] Any reason why there is no VAX version ?. Message-ID: <0128DFD0.C22236@sparkingwire.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote:  7 > DFU source code was available for the early versions.   H So one would have to re-add all the improvements made since that version until the current?  No thanks.   > I'm fairly sure it's in C.  ( Like I said, "If I knew the language..." --  
 Brian Tillmanv   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:47:31 +0100S" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>8 Subject: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so...4 Message-ID: <403f1255$0$22407$626a14ce@news.free.fr>  	 P*o*e*t*sm Let's relax a bit.  M You have been recently appointed HP OpenVMS Marketing Manager and you are in $J charge, together with MaryJane V., Sue S. and Hoff H. to promote the Nr 1  Operating System worldwide.l   Congratulations.  & Now, what would be your first actions?  ' [ ] retire and put Sue in your armchairn [ ] change the name back to VMS>& [ ] ask Ogilvy to build an ad campaign [ ] cancel i64 development% [ ] restore the Alpha chip production # [ ] start VMS/Athlon-64 engineeringnJ [ ] check if this is true that there are still PDP's running in production< [ ] go and visit Customers with a 64 slides PPT presentation= [ ] restore DECworld for VMS and build the greatest show evercN      (if you choose this option, please select Cannes as the location. Thanks)J [ ] suddently wake up and think that all this was just a(nother) nightmare [ ] other (please comment)   D. -- f2 VAXUS - Your new helpful friend in the DEC Family!2 EHQ: 19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France/       Phone: +336 7983 6418 Fax: +335 6154 1928e$                 http://www.vaxus.org  O Disclaimer: For those who are going to reply "Didier, you noisy again", please dL consider that this "game" is actually a data mining exercise for an OpenVMS R Marketing Campain I'll start in a few weeks time, in case you did not get that :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 07:42:30 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) < Subject: Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so...3 Message-ID: <hW6jzsDK0muf@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  Y In article <403f1255$0$22407$626a14ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes::  a(  [ ] retire and put Sue in your armchair   [X] change the name back to VMS'  [ ] ask Ogilvy to build an ad campaignM  [ ] cancel i64 development7&  [ ] restore the Alpha chip production$  [X] start VMS/Athlon-64 engineeringK  [ ] check if this is true that there are still PDP's running in productionu=  [ ] go and visit Customers with a 64 slides PPT presentationo>  [ ] restore DECworld for VMS and build the greatest show everO       (if you choose this option, please select Cannes as the location. Thanks)oK  [ ] suddently wake up and think that all this was just a(nother) nightmare   [X] other (please comment)g9    Buy ad space and time where the CIOs will see/hear it.a    o   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:58:31 +0000 (UTC) 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)+ Subject: [TCPIP V5.4] Found a bug again ;-)20 Message-ID: <newscache$kgupth$m1s$1@news.sil.at>  = I think, I should start a collection of rants in this thread,a" because every week I find more ;-)  8 Now seriously, I just found another (documentation) bug:   TCPTRACE  	   /OUTPUT1  '      Optional. Default: Screen display..  E      Redirects the trace output to a file. If you specify a file nameaC      that already exists, TCPTRACE appends new trace information to       the existing file.s  K However, in my case it creates another version and doesn't append anything.hB And I think this is good. So, only the HELP/doc should be fixed...   Do you agree ?   -- E Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERr% Network and OpenVMS system specialistE E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:00:52 +0000 (UTC)e6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)/ Subject: Re: [TCPIP V5.4] Found a bug again ;-),0 Message-ID: <newscache$dk8rth$02v$1@news.sil.at>  p In article <4rw%b.77897$Wa.38601@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com> writes:D >> However, in my case it creates another version and doesn't append
 >anything.E >> And I think this is good. So, only the HELP/doc should be fixed...7 >> >> Do you agree ?o >e, >I agree, and I've forwarded your report on.  & Thanks a lot, and now the next one ;-)   TCPTRACE  
   /PACKETS           /PACKETS=n        Optional. Default: 10.t  D      Stops the trace after TCPTRACE displays the specified number of
      packets.     M Unfortunately, TCPTRACE stops after 10 packets (unless you specify /PACKET=xx_C where xx isn't 10) so it seems TCPTRACE treats /PACKETS as default.o? And I think, this is not good, so the software should be fixed.l   Do you agree ?   -- - Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERK% Network and OpenVMS system specialist) E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.115 ************************