1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 28 Feb 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 116       Contents:% !JF Mezei issuing rogue cancels again & -ATTENTION EVERYONE IN THE NEWSGROUPS-P Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEXP Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEX- Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Interex's Cnet  Ad: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!' Re: J F kooks out on Nader, Bush, et al ( J F on Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz$ JF Mezei issuing rogue cancels again( Re: JF Mezei issuing rogue cancels again( Re: JF Mezei issuing rogue cancels again Re: Just remember, JF.../ Re: KGPSA-C and EMC DS-24 M2 SAN Switch Problem / Re: KGPSA-C and EMC DS-24 M2 SAN Switch Problem * Re: OT: Windows has become open source :-) Re: Power Button on PWS ' Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought  Re: tcpip shared port problem - Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas P Re: Upgrading VMS on a system where hardware is newer than the system disk OS su+ Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? @ Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?2 Re: Why does smtp mail between local systems fail?3 Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so... & Re: [TCPIP V5.4] Found a bug again ;-)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 01:02:30 +0000 (UTC) ) From: Attention <attention@attention.imp> . Subject: !JF Mezei issuing rogue cancels again1 Message-ID: <c1opb5$1u8c$1@fiasco.xenopsyche.net>    illegal message cancelled    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 01:02:33 +0000 (UTC) $ From: Important <very@important.now>/ Subject: -ATTENTION EVERYONE IN THE NEWSGROUPS- 1 Message-ID: <c1opb9$1u8h$1@fiasco.xenopsyche.net>    illegal message cancelled    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 13:16:06 -0800- From: phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) Y Subject: Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEX = Message-ID: <5ee1d1b7.0402271316.1112a746@posting.google.com>   m John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> wrote in message news:<d3kr30hjavumrs4sl69p34aknakdchfh6a@4ax.com>... F > On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:16:10 +0000, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> wrote: >  > >Gentle colleagues,  > > B > >despite working with VMS clusters for the last 100 or so years,) > >I'm stuck for an answer to this query:  > >  > >Scenario: > > ' > >NODE1 <------ Ethernet ------> NODE2 & > >   +                              +& > >   |                              |& > >   |                              |& > >   +----- Shared SCSI bus --------+ > >                 |  > >                 | 1 > >                 | Disks including quorum disk  > > 3 > >Both nodes have 1 vote, as does the quorum disk, 2 > >expected votes set to 3, quorum therefore is 2. > > ' > >Ethernet gets, ahem, "disconnected".  > > 2 > >One of the nodes voluntarily exits the cluster. > > $ > >Question:  which one ?  And why ? > I > My guess would be the first or last to join the cluster.  I assume each / > member hangs onto enough information to know.  > ? > >Is it the last one to access the quorum disk that stays up ?  > K > That does not sound very rigorous.  I don't like any suggestion of random M > behaviour because it opens up the possibility that both members will decide L > to die simultaneously.  Availability is supposed to be a cluster benefit ! > N > Both members will "see" the other ticking away at the quorum file.  However,M > they have no proper cluster communication method, thus neither can instruct N > the other to depart, so I would presume the design goal would be for one andM > only one to voluntarily go.  That really only leaves membership time and/or  > scssystemid.    E One way you might be able to dictate which system would stay up in is D be setting LOCKDIRWT higher on one system.  That way the system with4 the lower LOCKDIRWT is more likely to CLUEXIT first.   PT   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 03:16:10 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Y Subject: Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEX ( Message-ID: <c1p15q$oe9$1@pcls4.std.com>  ! Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes:   1 >Both nodes have 1 vote, as does the quorum disk, 0 >expected votes set to 3, quorum therefore is 2.  % >Ethernet gets, ahem, "disconnected".   0 >One of the nodes voluntarily exits the cluster.  " >Question:  which one ?  And why ?  @ I checked the sources.  The node with the higher CSID bugchecks./ (CSID is based on SYSGEN parameter SCSSYSTEMID)      --   -Mike    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 05:27:46 -0000 , From: rdd@rhiannon.rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette0 Message-ID: <10409mi8cv6k346@corp.supernews.com>  < In article <5ee1d1b7.0402271217.8bffb98@posting.google.com>,0 	phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) writes:F > Doing things acording to company policy has EVERTHING to do with theA > "best interest" of me getting a paycheck to support my family.  C > Whether I like it or not is beside the point.  I work for my best H > interest and not for the companies best interest.  If my input happens  A Then it's also in your best interest to avoid having to work with D tools that are broken and annoying to use, like Windoze on a "lockedF down" PC that one can't configure to one's liking.  It's so refreshingB to nuke windoze and install something useful, like FreeBSD, on the* PC that one's employer puts on one's desk.  F > to help sway the company one way or another in making it's decisionsA > then that's great.  But rocking the boat and falling out is not 5 > something I enjoy. (Speaking from experience here.)   D "Rocking the boat" does make sense if the policies and rules make noE sense---and many do not make sense in many companies.  It does no one > any good to have to bother with following insipid policies andE procedures, particularly if they make your work more difficult to do. D If one can find a way to bend or break the rules, and doing so isn'tC harming anyone, and it's to one's advantage, then, by all means one A should bend and break the rules to make life easier.  If doing so B helps and doesn't hurt the company---or if it helps the company asF well as the individual as it may in many cases, then there would be noE "just cause" for firing someone for beaking or bending the rules that @ serve only to patronize some egotistical pedantic dimwit who hasD nothing better to do that sit around making up annoying policies and< procedures.  Those mindlessly timid back-side kissing policyA followers, who are also likely to be the department tattle-tales, F afraid to make any waves, are their own worst enemies, and the enemies& of other thinking individuals as well.   --  N Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: M All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &  O rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such I http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 05:33:24 -0000 , From: rdd@rhiannon.rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette0 Message-ID: <1040a143k3qh6f5@corp.supernews.com>  0 In article <403E96A4.17B13CBA@sture.homeip.net>,- 	Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:   5 > And no, swapping cables around is not the answer...   C Perhaps you're right.  One should just insert a FreeBSD CD-ROM into ? the CD-ROM drive of the PC and begin the installation, deleting = Windoze partitions or just running fdisk on them. :-) :-) :-)    --  N Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: M All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &  O rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such I http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 06:08:33 -0000 , From: rdd@rhiannon.rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette0 Message-ID: <1040c3190a83928@corp.supernews.com>  = In article <5ee1d1b7.0402271008.20b165be@posting.google.com>, 0 	phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) writes: > D > Formatted email is valuable to many people.  Whether the format isF > HTML or a MS-Whatever attachment.  Whether people want to believe itF > or not MS is an industry leader in computers.  I would bet that at a  A P.T. Barnum was an "industry leader" in extracting the money from 0 suckers' wallets/purses too.  What's your point?  G > minimum 75% of office systems are running on MS based platforms.  So,   @ That doesn't mean that everyone has to go along with that. If 75F percent of the people anywhere on the property of a nut farm are nuts,C are you saying that the other 25 percent should try to be nuts too?   F > that means that 25% of the industry is using a non standard platform- > for their office management environments.      And your point is?     > It't the anti-MSH > hackeristas that cause the excessive viri and worms that are currentlyH > hitting systems anc costing the industry billions in lost productivity  K No, it's the M$-Windoze weenies and Micro$oft who are causing the problems. H If their systems weren't broken, the viruses wouldn't be such a problem.  F > not to mention profits due to the purchasing of expensive Anti-VirusG > software.  How in the world can you blame Viri and Worms on a company ) > that is setting the industry standards.   D Setting industry standards?  ROFL.  If you're refering to Micro$oft,C surely you have an overactive imagination or are extremely gullible B Micro$oft breaks industry standards while _claiming_ to be settingD them, and people like you, unfortunately, appear to believe them.  I< suggest that you, quickly, invoke emacs and run the "doctor") program----it might help.  Good luck! :-)      --  N Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: M All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &  O rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such I http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:58:37 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon1 Message-ID: <xrM%b.1251$9r1.243@news.cpqcorp.net>   ) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: 5 > "Rick Jones" <foo@bar.baz.invalid> wrote in message , > news:Hzx%b.1205$5Y.858@news.cpqcorp.net...  F >> BTW, a bit of a drift, but do you have any rules of thumb for total? >> system power consumption based on the power consumption of a 
 >> processor?   C > When you're talking blades (as Rob appeared to be, by bringing up C > the low-power Itanics), my distinct impression is that the CPU is D > the main consumer of power and cooling effort: disks, for example,D > typically draw under (sometimes well under) 10W each, blades don'tE > have any high-power graphics chips to worry about, and DRAM doesn't D > draw much.  Of course, Itanic's power consumption is sufficient to@ > take the lion's share of power even in a high-end workstation.  & What do you consider the lion's share?  > >> > You mean it might actually offer more than half the TPC-C) >> > performance of a POWER4+ core again?  >>= >> I still think you are stretching things too thin with that A >> comparison and again need to be including the CEC.  Especially ? >> since IBM have not seen fit to provide anything but a 32-CPU 
 >> result.  = > Well, given that that 32-CPU result is slightly higher than D > Superdome's 64-CPU result (using the same amount of total RAM, and? > balancing Itanic's 6 MB of 10 ns. on-chip cache per processor C > against POWER4+'s 16 MB of 90 ns.  off-chip cache per processor), 3 > I'm not too uncomfortable drawing the comparison.   F I didn't suspect you were _uncomfortable_ with it as it does suit your purposes :)   < I still don't believe that the balance of the data out thereA sufficiently supports the claim that the ratios would hold in the  lesser-end systems.   ) >> > Too bad - POWER5 is about to appear.  >>" >> Have IBM announced a ship date?  F > Have HP announced a ship date for the Montecito systems that Rob wasB > touting, causing me to bring up POWER5?  The last I knew, POWER5F > systems were scheduled to appear this year, and Montecito next year.  E If it were "about" to appear I would think it would be within the six C month window allowed by TPC, which makes the 1.9 GHz POWER4+ result @ somewhat surprising.  Perhaps you have a different definition of "about?"  
 rick jones --  = denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance, rebirth... C                                      where do you want to be today? F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 11:35:08 -08002 From: ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com (M. Ranjit Mathews)& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon= Message-ID: <1d4c67e3.0402271135.535c8c1b@posting.google.com>   / young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote ... 0 mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon) writes: > > And the winner is #1. 6 > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/35799.html? > 	Guess they just don't know when to surrender to AMD64.  LOL. B > 	But it isn't as if Itanium is broken.  Montecito conservatively= > 	does 2000 SpecInt2000 and 2800 SpecFp2000 and given it has B > 	24 MByte L3 and geared towards commercial computing it ought to > 	be a shocker with TPC.   @ How will it perform if Intel increases IPC from 6 to 9 by addingF integer units to shake off the Itanium's reputation for being a dog at integer processing?    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 02:03:19 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon0 Message-ID: <Hzx%b.1205$5Y.858@news.cpqcorp.net>  ) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: D > An excellent example.  The 1 GHz Deerfield is indeed comparable toC > the McKinley in performance (a bit less than the 3 MB McKinley, a B > bit more than the 900 MHz McKinley).  In other words, not reallyE > competitive today.  By contrast, the low-voltage 246 Opteron offers F > commercial performance comparable to the 1.5 GHz full-boat Madison -1 > using only about half the power (55W vs. 107W).   ? It would be good for you to include the benchamrks you consider D showing comperable commercial performance.  For some the list may be# obvious, but for others it may not.   C BTW, a bit of a drift, but do you have any rules of thumb for total < system power consumption based on the power consumption of a
 processor?  ; > You mean it might actually offer more than half the TPC-C ( > performance of a POWER4+ core again?    E I still think you are stretching things too thin with that comparison F and again need to be including the CEC.  Especially since IBM have not1 seen fit to provide anything but a 32-CPU result.   & > Too bad - POWER5 is about to appear.   Have IBM announced a ship date?   
 rick jones --  ? Process shall set you free from the need for rational thought.  F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2004 20:41:49 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) & Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon3 Message-ID: <LLzbTeKp8RoV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <zuudnS68k5msEKPdRVn-ig@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message   >  >   Montecito conservatively, >> does 2000 SpecInt2000 and 2800 SpecFp2000 > ' > My, you're full of shit today, Rob.      	Greetings to you too Bill!    > Here the 90 nm. Prescott is I > hard-pressed to *equal* the performance (and clock rate) of its 130 nm. N > Northwood ancestor, and you're predicting at least a 50% SPECint performance4 > boost for the 130 nm. -> 90 nm. Itanic transition.    = 	No - not me.  An Intel CPU designer.  Arcadian at RealWorld:   P "As long as we're talking hypothetical CPUs, let's imagine a current Madison CPUE with 667MT/s FSB (10.7GB/s bandwidth), registered DDR2700 memory (for G maintaining reliability), and Intel's P1262 circuits to allow the clock L frequency to hit 2.2GHz, all on a low latency optimized chipset. I predict aM SPECfp close to 2750 and a SPECint just shy of 2000. We can even add a second N core for superior throughput performance and advanced power management so thatC it wouldn't dissipate any more power than the current Madison CPU."   = 	In follow-up, an admittedly conservative estimate as someone  	notes and Arcadian confirms:   M "Can I ask, why's the FP so low? I would have figured with a ~50% clock boost O and a ~65% bandwidth boost, your hypothetical core should do better than a ~25%  SPECfp boost."    7 	It will do quite a bit better than 2000 Int / 2800 Fp.   < 	What are you thinking?  Are you thinking Montecito comes inE 	at the same speed as the current Madison?  Read the threads.  As we  D 	know, 6, 8 , 12 months of process improvements cranks the clocks.  9 	What circuits do Montecito use?  P1262 - or so it seems.   G 	You're also ignoring history.  Look at how Itanium has increased clock G 	since the outset, 800 , 1000, 1500 MHz.  It always starts in a mature  9 	process - that is the server CPU world as Intel does it.      >  and given it has B >> 24 MByte L3 and geared towards commercial computing it ought to >> be a shocker with TPC.  > L > You mean it might actually offer more than half the TPC-C performance of a; > POWER4+ core again?  Too bad - POWER5 is about to appear.   B 	Good.  Hopefully they both maintain the same prices and of course< 	get much closer on performance CPU for CPU.  If SPEC is anyB 	indicator, Power5 has quite a competitor in the next Itanium, butG 	we will see.  One thing for sure, that Itanic moniker is going to get  % 	funnier and funnier as time goes by!    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 01:49:28 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon2 Message-ID: <QeWdncSqNsTKdaPdRVn-vw@metrocast.net>  3 "Rick Jones" <foo@bar.baz.invalid> wrote in message * news:Hzx%b.1205$5Y.858@news.cpqcorp.net...+ > Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: F > > An excellent example.  The 1 GHz Deerfield is indeed comparable toE > > the McKinley in performance (a bit less than the 3 MB McKinley, a D > > bit more than the 900 MHz McKinley).  In other words, not reallyG > > competitive today.  By contrast, the low-voltage 246 Opteron offers H > > commercial performance comparable to the 1.5 GHz full-boat Madison -3 > > using only about half the power (55W vs. 107W).  > A > It would be good for you to include the benchamrks you consider F > showing comperable commercial performance.  For some the list may be% > obvious, but for others it may not.   I SPECint, SPECweb99_SSL, and SPECjbb2000 would be good ones to start with. G Unfortunately, AMD does not seem to have had the marketing resources to K submit serious TPC-C configurations, or to compete in other benchmarks like  OASB and SAP SD.   > E > BTW, a bit of a drift, but do you have any rules of thumb for total > > system power consumption based on the power consumption of a > processor?  E When you're talking blades (as Rob appeared to be, by bringing up the F low-power Itanics), my distinct impression is that the CPU is the mainI consumer of power and cooling effort:  disks, for example, typically draw G under (sometimes well under) 10W each, blades don't have any high-power F graphics chips to worry about, and DRAM doesn't draw much.  Of course,J Itanic's power consumption is sufficient to take the lion's share of power even in a high-end workstation.    > = > > You mean it might actually offer more than half the TPC-C ( > > performance of a POWER4+ core again? > G > I still think you are stretching things too thin with that comparison H > and again need to be including the CEC.  Especially since IBM have not3 > seen fit to provide anything but a 32-CPU result.   G Well, given that that 32-CPU result is slightly higher than Superdome's K 64-CPU result (using the same amount of total RAM, and balancing Itanic's 6 J MB of 10 ns. on-chip cache per processor against POWER4+'s 16 MB of 90 ns.D off-chip cache per processor), I'm not too uncomfortable drawing the comparison.    > ( > > Too bad - POWER5 is about to appear. > ! > Have IBM announced a ship date?   D Have HP announced a ship date for the Montecito systems that Rob wasH touting, causing me to bring up POWER5?  The last I knew, POWER5 systems< were scheduled to appear this year, and Montecito next year.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 02:14:24 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon2 Message-ID: <_66dnan_aoCyc6PdRVn-uQ@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:LLzbTeKp8RoV@eisner.encompasserve.org... @ > In article <zuudnS68k5msEKPdRVn-ig@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"  <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:   ...    > > Here the 90 nm. Prescott is K > > hard-pressed to *equal* the performance (and clock rate) of its 130 nm. D > > Northwood ancestor, and you're predicting at least a 50% SPECint performance 6 > > boost for the 130 nm. -> 90 nm. Itanic transition. >  > > > No - not me.  An Intel CPU designer.  Arcadian at RealWorld:  + Ah, but not an *Itanic* CPU designer, IIRC.    > F > "As long as we're talking hypothetical CPUs, let's imagine a current Madison CPU G > with 667MT/s FSB (10.7GB/s bandwidth), registered DDR2700 memory (for I > maintaining reliability), and Intel's P1262 circuits to allow the clock L > frequency to hit 2.2GHz, all on a low latency optimized chipset. I predict a H > SPECfp close to 2750 and a SPECint just shy of 2000. We can even add a secondK > core for superior throughput performance and advanced power management so  thatE > it wouldn't dissipate any more power than the current Madison CPU."   J Well, since at last report Montecito was still required to function withinG the 130W power envelope, and since the 1.5 GHz Madison already consumes H 107W, even if Intel actually manages to get its 90 nm. process under farI better control by next year it *still* won't be able to run both cores at J anything like 2.2 GHz (though *might* be able to run one core that fast if the second were kept idle).    > > > In follow-up, an admittedly conservative estimate as someone > notes and Arcadian confirms: > I > "Can I ask, why's the FP so low? I would have figured with a ~50% clock  boost L > and a ~65% bandwidth boost, your hypothetical core should do better than a ~25% > SPECfp boost." >  > 8 > It will do quite a bit better than 2000 Int / 2800 Fp.  H Selling futures as always, Rob.  Will you *ever* find a product you like* that actually excels in the present tense?  K By the way, another of Arcadian's predictions was that Madison would be the E SPECint leader at the end of 2003, IIRC:  don't get your hopes up for 
 Montecito.   > = > What are you thinking?  Are you thinking Montecito comes in E > at the same speed as the current Madison?  Read the threads.  As we C > know, 6, 8 , 12 months of process improvements cranks the clocks.   K Not for Prescott's 90 nm. process, Rob:  Intel still seems to be struggling J to hit 4 GHz by the end of 2004 - compared with 3.4 GHz in the old 130 nm. process right now.  : > What circuits do Montecito use?  P1262 - or so it seems. >  > You're also ignoring history.   " No, Rob:  you are, as noted above.  )   Look at how Itanium has increased clock ) > since the outset, 800 , 1000, 1500 MHz.   C The only jump there that was impressive at all was from McKinley to L Madison - and a lot of that was likely due to circuit tweaks (McKinley beingL a completely new design, and Madison simply a shrink of it).  They won't getJ any similar set of tweaks moving from Madison to Montecito (still the sameJ old McKinley design), and unless they get much better relative clock ratesI out of Montecito than they got out of Prescott there'll be no significant  jump at all.     It always starts in a mature: > process - that is the server CPU world as Intel does it. >  >  > >  and given it has D > >> 24 MByte L3 and geared towards commercial computing it ought to > >> be a shocker with TPC.  > > L > > You mean it might actually offer more than half the TPC-C performance of a = > > POWER4+ core again?  Too bad - POWER5 is about to appear.  > C > Good.  Hopefully they both maintain the same prices and of course - > get much closer on performance CPU for CPU.   I Exactly how do you figure that, Rob?  Right now, the POWER4+ CPU seems to I have about twice the TPC-C performance of the Itanic CPU.  And while both J architectures are moving to 90 nm., SMT, and increased cache sizes, POWER5I is also getting additional on-chip design improvements that Itanic is not K (and IBM seems to have their 90 nm. process under a lot better control than  Intel's currently is).   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 15:17:00 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) Subject: Interex's Cnet  Ad = Message-ID: <f30679fb.0402271517.6d803c53@posting.google.com>   9 There is an Interex Ad at CNET site and I copied the link 
 to show you :   2 http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/Ads/4558/10/SS04mpu.gif  9 As you can see, its a meeting about HPUX, Tru64, MPE but  no OpenVMS ! !     WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING  ?    Regards    FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:51:21 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! 6 Message-ID: <1040226204146.15727E-100000@Ives.egh.com>  / On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:    > Joshua Cope wrote: >  > > glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: > < > >>Will itanic prices go down now that intel is dumping it? > B > > Intel hasn't dumped anything yet, according to their website. & > > These are Intel's words, not mine! > ; > > http://www.intel.com/technology/64bitextensions/faq.htm ; > > -------------------------------------------------------  > P > >    "We offer two architectures and will continue to invest in both. Keep in N > >     mind that 64-bits alone does not significantly change the fundamental M > >     features or performance of a processor... These markets require much  P > >     more than just 64-bits - the scalability and reliability of the Itanium ( > >     processor family are paramount." > L > >    "The Itanium processor family is and will continue to be the highest K > >     performing and most reliable product family we offer for high-end,  ! > >     multi-processor systems."  > J > >    "64-bit extension technology is an extension to Intel's processors I > >     based on the IA-32 architecture. The Itanium processor family is  H > >     based on the EPIC architecture. These are two separate families H > >     of processors based on two different architectures. The Itanium I > >     processor family is specifically designed for the most demanding  ' > >     mission critical applications."  > F > Well, they could have said that about Alpha.   If the new processorsD > are cheaper and faster won't many users switch over, even for high > end servers? > E > I suppose I would be looking at the bottom end of the current line, E > maybe a home machine with 4GB ram, single processor, running NetBSD @ > or Windows Server 2003.  OK, maybe even VMS (I just remembered > which newsgroup this was). > 	 > -- glen   > I just received a bunch of CDs on Tuesday with "HP OpenVMS I64H Evaluation Release Version 8.1 SDK" on the cover letter.  Unfortunately,D I don't have an Itanium system to run it on...  I think they shipped% them to all DSPP VMS SDK subscribers.    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 19:00:56 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)0 Subject: Re: J F kooks out on Nader, Bush, et al= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0402271900.587236ad@posting.google.com>   e Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message news:<c02863129a80c1201459b8ea73af12a0@dizum.com>...  [...]   @ I omitted the entirety of your post because it is pure junk. TheD joke's on you. No one's reading your stuff anymore; it's just becomeF an annoyance. In fact, you're posts are by far the most annoying thing I've ever read on Usenet.    Long live JF Mezei!    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 01:12:07 +0100 # From: edo <nobody@cryptorebels.net> 1 Subject: J F on Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz ? Message-ID: <2d4481d74fdb541108a750188b02eda6@cryptorebels.net>   . nobody <nobody@nobody.org> (JF Mezei) trolled:  & >"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:G >> week indicated that, if the election were to be held this week, Bush G >> would lose to the Democratic candidate (when offered either choice - I >> Kerry/Bush or Edwards/Bush - both Democrats showed significant leads).  >  > M >Bush Jr has done a **LOT** of damage to the USA (from an international point N >of view). For one thing, the USA is no longer able to make any claim based on- >its "intelligence" without being laughed at.  > N >Bush invaded a country illegally, against United Nations. Bush lied about theO >reasons for the invasion. He coerced other (weak) countries such as Poland and A >Hungary to help. (can you spell "blackmail" ?) The list goes on.  > 9 >It is called abuse of power. It must never happen again.  > O >Right now, the american public must not only kick Bush and his ilks out with a I >resounding defeat (less than 20% of the votes), but they must also start J >judicial proceedings against Bush and his axis of evil (Rumsfeld, Cheney,J >Wolfowitz). The american public must show to the world that they will notK >tolerate another Bush Jr style of administration. The american public must J >show to their political parties that people like Bush will never egain beM >elected. That will motivate the political parties to never again choose such  >leadership. > L >Unfortunatly, the american public does not realise how much damage Bush hasI >caused in the world and inside the USA. His successor will have a lot of   >fences to mend, wounds to heal. > N >The american pubnlic must show the world, especially he middle east that BushJ >was just a (very bad) blip in the history of the USA and that it does notL >signify a trend.  Look at how long it took Germany to heal the wounds afterN >Hittler's regime. The middle east will take a long time to forget about Bush. > I >North Korea will probably agree to re-instate the peace treaty signed by N >Clinton and destroyed by Bush. (North Korea is just some bad leader who has aO >beef against USA, the people don't really have hatred against USA). But in the I >middle east, hatred runs high in the masses, and this requires lots more  >diplomacy and time to fix.  > I >Of course, the Bush regime looks quite silly now, still accusing Iran of L >producing WMDs. Makes the Bush regime look like a pre-scripted/pre-recordedO >adminstration whose speeches continue to blast Iran despite the fact that Iran N >has agreed to full UN inspections and the rest of the world is satisfied that >Iran will comply.  -                ============================== *                 FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS  -                                         About   0                                  J F   M E Z E I.                 ==============================  , Author:  Michael Voight  <mvoight@cisco.com>   1.  Who is JF Mezei?  G Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever hittJ rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also one of the) longest running trolls in usenet history.e  " 2.  How long has he been trolling?   For well over a decade.p   3.  Where does he live?    Montreal, Quebec, Canada   Jean-Francois Mezei  86 Harwood Gateb Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3s (514) 695-8259  * 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll?  H His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades yourO newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, day in and day out, O every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He does not listen to pleasoI to stop, he does not listen to anything anyone tells him, he does not payeO attention when the misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he just M goes right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his earsSG closed while yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear anything you say!"t   5.  What does he troll about?r  P His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  He hates theK USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn it into a USA-bashingeC fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just start making lewd posts.   $ 6.  What does he hate about the USA?  P Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have a visceralP hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a happier, better, moreJ successful version of their country and they can't stand it.  Some of JF'sN favorite troll bait is "the Bush regime", "the Bush-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz axis ofJ evil", "Americans are brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are stupid" etc.  # 7.  What about his sexual trolling?-  P Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre.  Among hisI favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women's genitalia, sex toys,zM circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of course) ... the list is endless.t   8.  Circumcision???a  P Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes to insertF circumcision into his trolling every now and then.  Apparently, JF wasP traumatized as a child because his parents, poor Hungarian immigrants to Canada,O left him uncircumcised when he was born, as is the custom in most of the world.1N Growing up in Canada where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time,O he was psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he arrangedDD to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades of circumcisionN proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a free willy.  His mainO argument is how much better he was able to masturbate after getting circumcised M without that "pesky foreskin" getting in the way of his enjoyment, and he hasf> made it his mission in life to spread the circumcision gospel.  H 9.  What's his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of freaky.  N Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among the subjects dearO to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, especially little boy's J foreskins (and how tight they are) and little girls' hymens.  He is also aK tireless activist and advocate that children should be taught to masturbatekH early on so that they don't grow up "sexually repressed like Americans".  L He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check their littleM boys' penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, proper movement, O and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.  Utopia for JF would be af> world full of parents manipulating their little boys' penises.  M 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the minute!  Area you sure about all this stuff?  P Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There's over a decade full of Mezei trolling in there.i  M 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn't he change aliases all the time likek all trolls do?  K Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known trollings aliases.  G 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn't he work?l  O Ha ha ha!  JF hasn't worked a day in his life!  He's an adult baby, a grown man O who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and trolls the newsgroupseM all night.  In his free time when he isn't trolling he likes to ride his bikeeG down to Dorval Airport and race the planes down the runway in his bike.   9 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something?:  M Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man's body.  Psychologically he never got pastjG the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor (i.e. "pull myhH finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been able to outgrow.  L 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about them, is
 that true?  M Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in the locker room.oN He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has seen in locker rooms overP the years, especially his unnatural obsession with foreskins.  He stalks the menO in locker rooms trying to measure how much foreskin they have, or how little is-N left if they have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he spots a case of phimosis.j  O 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an insane asylum!r  M Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin foil hat N world where others are out to get him.  The key to understanding JF is that heL sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the world is out to get him, especially the) USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all about.   O What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian rail system waseJ "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut, spotting trains,N writing down their numbers and chasing them down at the train yard like a goodM freak.  Then he turned his attention to aviation.  Major events that made himnP fall head first deep into the abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadian Airlines andO their subsequent takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  So paranoid isyM he that when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada employees O went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to cover up the AirhD Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up of the crash1 investigation.  He has never recovered from this.y  6 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him!  O His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to some ancient, J arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has taken seriously forM decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and social dropouts who sharenJ his psychological traumas, crying for the good old vax days of yore.  It's really pathetic!  ! 17.  Where else does he hang out?   I can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geeky computerbG groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster he invaded theaN sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, and trolled it relentlesslyP with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crap he's so famous for.  But they ranN him off that group and he had to go crawling back to comp.os.vms with his tail% between his legs, licking his wounds.a  P 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and doesn't troll.  O Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it's impossible not to troll, so he slipssP in troll bait every now and then, but by and large he respects comp.os.vms, and,L more importantly, he tries to hide his trolling activities from them so they* won't find out what a major netkook he is.  P 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind of psycho he is!  O Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And while you're at I it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fido too.  And to4O alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.   4 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address?  H Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts to:   abuse@sympatico.ca abuse@bellglobal.com abuse@istop.come  P And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups, email it toP people, you may host it at your own website, send it to newspapers and magazinesI that do Internet articles or anything to do with Montreal or Canada, etc.u     *** APPENDIX ***  P List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over the years.  This isK only a partial list, he has so many it's impossible to compile a full list.m   jfmezei@istop.com- jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com  jfmezei@videotron.ca jfmezei@vl.videotron.cad nospam.jfmezei@videotron.ca  "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam]   nobody <nobody@nobody.com> nobody <nobody@nobody.net> nobody <nobody@nobody.org> nobody <nobody@nobody.info>. nobody <nobody@nobody.int> nobody <nobody@nothing.nil>o nobody <nobody@null.dev> muklak <muklak@eskimo.net> Sheep skin <sheep@station.au>e# snowy squirrel <squirrel@nest.tree>t) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>t& Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>x Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org>o" Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>$ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>o' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com>e" Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org> ' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org>r( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>n' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org>t% Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>s Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>r! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org>i# Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>y  Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>  Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>o$ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>d! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>s  Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>n% Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>h$ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>u& Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org>h% Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>e& Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>s' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>d( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>.' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org>i% Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org>@$ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>.( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>r" Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>>& Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>u) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>m' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>c" Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org>o* Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org>p* Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>? Q <queue@continuum.net>t Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>s  ; *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY*e   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 01:02:29 +0000 (UTC)d) From: Attention <attention@attention.imp>e- Subject: JF Mezei issuing rogue cancels againi1 Message-ID: <c1opb5$1u8b$1@fiasco.xenopsyche.net>s   illegal message cancelled    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 01:02:31 +0000 (UTC)4% From: networkburn <nospam@spamnot.ca> 1 Subject: Re: JF Mezei issuing rogue cancels againh1 Message-ID: <c1opb7$1u8d$1@fiasco.xenopsyche.net>o   illegal message cancelledi   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 01:02:32 +0000 (UTC)e. From: "Deep" <deep_mehtaHATESSPAM@hotmail.com>1 Subject: Re: JF Mezei issuing rogue cancels again>1 Message-ID: <c1opb8$1u8g$1@fiasco.xenopsyche.net>    illegal message cancelled    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 01:02:33 +0000 (UTC),( From: "~ Darrell  Larose ~" <me@here.eh>! Subject: Re: Just remember, JF...d1 Message-ID: <c1opb9$1u8i$1@fiasco.xenopsyche.net>    illegal message cancelledr   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 12:33:29 -0800- From: phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer)e8 Subject: Re: KGPSA-C and EMC DS-24 M2 SAN Switch Problem= Message-ID: <5ee1d1b7.0402271233.5cbf3499@posting.google.com>p  o "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> wrote in message news:<AOH%b.94397$%72.55016@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...o2 > "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> wrote in message5 > news:9Wy%b.28020$LD5.24776@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...m > > . > > Hey Phil.   Hello...   Long time no see... > >eG > > You might have the cables swapped.  Some Fibre cables come from theaM > > manufacturer in a "twisted" fashion.  You may need to physically swap one5? > > pair of the cables in order to get the link lights to work.Y > N > Good point Phil.  I've purchased some non-HP cables that were swapped and itH > was just about impossible to reverse them due to the connector design.J > Subsequent purchases have been made only for cables that have individual > connectors I could reverse.. >  > -Jeffi  E Yeah, the cable has LC connectors on one end and SC connectors on the2E other.  So switching them around is easy because I can swap the lines D at the KGPSA-C card.  I will try it again in a few minutes because IB cannot remember if I switched them around when I changed the KGPSAE last time.  But I'm pretty sure I did try it already on the new card.-   Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:33:51 -0600>% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>n8 Subject: Re: KGPSA-C and EMC DS-24 M2 SAN Switch Problem9 Message-ID: <9Wy%b.28020$LD5.24776@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>p  8 PhilThayer <phillip_thayer@hotmail.com> wrote in message7 news:5ee1d1b7.0402260732.616f7a32@posting.google.com... < > "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> wrote in message4 news:<HA2%b.83497$n62.13845@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...> > > "PhilThayer" <phillip_thayer@hotmail.com> wrote in message; > > news:5ee1d1b7.0402242001.73f39cd3@posting.google.com... B > > > We have just purchased an AlphaServer ES40 M2 with a KGPSA-CJ > > > FiberChannel card in it.  I am trying to get connectivity to the EMCK > > > DAS-24 M2 SAN switch but it doesn't seem to be working.  I am runningfH > > > console firmware version 6.6-19 from Nov 2003 and have replace theI > > > fiber and card already and still no luck.  The EMC people said thatuG > > > when the switch sees "light" on the fiber cable a blue light williJ > > > light up next to the port I am useing.  But it never lights up and IE > > > keep getting the message "pga0.0.0.4.1 link down" on the systemn+ > > > console when I initialize the system.  > > > I > > > Is there something I am missing or not doing properly?  Any help ore@ > > > pointers to the right direction with this would be greatly > > > appreciated. > > >s
 > > > Thanks,m
 > > > Phil > > J > > Some FC cards will not connect to the fabric when the system is at theG > > console level.  An overt act such as executing a WWIDMGR command orb booting4L > > the OS is needed to force the FC port login.  I seem to remember that my 1Gbe1 > > cards required this but my 2Gb cards did not.m > >r >oD > Did not know this.  I did get one suggestion from a good friend toD > turn AUTONEGOTIATE OFF and set the port speed to 1GB on the switch > port.g >r% > Soes that sound like it might work?s >a
 > > Try a: > >0D > > >> set mode advanced -or- set mode diag (I can't remember which) > > >> wwidmgr -show adaptor > > L > > If you're getting the "Nvram read failed" messages, you may also want to do > > a: >k@ > Not getting this message.  For a while I was getting a messageH > something like "Waiting for PGA0 to start....." 12 times then the bootC > would continue.  Not getting that message anymore though.  Now it ' > simply says "pga0.0.0.4.1 link down".n >yF > When I do a "wwidmgr -show adap" it shows tha adapter and the WWN noB > problem.  When I do "wwidmgr -show reachability" it doesn't show > anything.n >n > > 3 > > >> wwidmgr -set adaptor -item 9999 -topo fabric2 > >, >l > Did that.  No luck. :( >h  * Hey Phil.   Hello...   Long time no see...  C You might have the cables swapped.  Some Fibre cables come from the I manufacturer in a "twisted" fashion.  You may need to physically swap onei; pair of the cables in order to get the link lights to work.   L All of the DS25's that I got in I had to do the topo fabric bit before I gotI a link light.  ES47's and 1280's did not seem to have that problem, but I~K have one ES47 system that I have been working  on tonight that I cannot getoL to boot on the SAN  I think that this one may actually have bad HBA's or PCI backplane in it.     > > See: > >  > >iL ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/readmes/v6.6/doc/wwidmgr.pd fo > >e	 > > -Jeffa   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 13:02:32 -0800) From: account4googlegroups@yahoo.com (JP)s3 Subject: Re: OT: Windows has become open source :-) = Message-ID: <5ea63c07.0402271302.75c8a471@posting.google.com>o  h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<wfETfiIBaryF@eisner.encompasserve.org>...y > In article <c0kj9r$siu$8@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:  > K > > This is a misunderstanding.  Nothing can "fall into the public domain".rL > > In order for something to get into the public domain, the author has to  > > say this explicitly. > 
 > I disagree.r > B > > See http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html for details. >  > So does that page: > B > 	"(*) Copyrights can expire after a long time, putting somethingB > 	 into the public domain, and there are some fine points on this2 > 	 issue regarding older copyright law versions." > B > In what way do you feel that a copyright "expiring" differs from" > "falls into the public domain" ? > B > Certainly the works of Bach and Mozart are in the public domain,* > but "Happy Birthday" is not (in the US).  2 http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/7/5/112441/6280   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 20:40:16 +0000 (UTC)t, From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)  Subject: Re: Power Button on PWS. Message-ID: <c1o9vg$qrd$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes in article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIIEDHCOAA.tom@kednos.com> dated Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:54:41 -0800:@ >I have three of these, 2 running VMS and 1 running Tru64.  UponL >reestablishing power after outage the one running Unix automaticvally comesM >up, the other two I have to manually depress the switch.  Is there perhaps ar >Biosm >setting to correct this?o  J There are 2 kinds of computer power switches.  One is a double throw whichJ actually cuts off the power to what's behind it, and the other is a singleL throw which merely sends a signal to the mobo when it is pressed.  It shouldH be easy to tell by looking at the size of the wires going to the switch.  F If your PWS remembers whether it was on or off when power returns, theK switch is probably DT.  Otherwise it's ST.  My PWS 500au boots back up intosK VMS after a power outage, with no modification to the default SRM variables  except AUTO_ACTION.  y  H Is there a breaker switch on the back?  If you decide you don't need theK functionality of the switch on the front.  You might be able to wedge it in)H the "depressed" position, or open up the box and bypass it electrically.  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:22:13 +0000 (UTC)m, From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)0 Subject: Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought- Message-ID: <c1oful$f3$1@newslocal.mitre.org>    chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk (Chris Townley) writes in article <93b50805.0402261747.7469466b@posting.google.com> dated 26 Feb 2004 17:47:04 -0800:F >There are no explicit output files - this is a records sort. That was% >why I was looking at the work files.d  G You said you had 4 sort contexts going at once.  What if you're gettingWK collisions in the names of the work files?  The documentation mentions thatbK you can and should set up work files on different disks, but it doesn't say  how.  I Regardless, you can probably do these sorts in memory, since you're usingt> such small records.  Try setting the work_files parameter (for SOR$BEGIN_SORT) to 0.O  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 04:50:47 GMT@6 From: Jeffrey Coffield <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com>& Subject: Re: tcpip shared port problem< Message-ID: <H0A%b.17660$FU.4151@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>   Jeffrey Coffield wrote:@ > OpenVMS 7.1, TCP/IP V5.0A  > J > I have been trying to use the UCX$C_SHARE option to have parent process I > accept a connection and then pass it off to a child process. I based mye< > code on the QIO example from DSIN of PARENT.C and CHILD.C. >  >  > Problem 1:E > When a connection exits, I immediately get another connection that oI > returns a status of 1 but the IOSB(0) returns 1 and IOSB(1) returns 4. nG > This appears to mean EINTR (Interrupted system call). This occurs in PK > both my code and the example from DSIN. The DSIN example crashes at this sC > point as the spawned child tries to read from the bad connection.d >  > Problem 2:D > I have the parent spawn 2 children to start. The first and second K > connections work fine. I then disconnect each connection, make the first iG > connections again and so far so good. However when I make the second hK > connection the second time I get a IOSB(0) of 20 (SYSTEM-F-BARPARAM, bad n > parameter value).  > J > Does anyone have an example in any language of the sequence of calls to , > share a socket between a parent and child? >  > TIAs > Jeff Coffieldf# > Please respond in this newsgroup.p > D I finally got an answer from DSIN. (Our firewall was blocking their G replies). The example on DSIN had a bug that when fixed eliminated the t8 problem. They said they wer going to update the example.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:03:14 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>p6 Subject: Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas' Message-ID: <403F9472.5060401@MMaz.com>k   Tom Adams wrote:  	 >We have:v >i >2 AlphaStations 400 4/233 >1 AlphaServer  800 5/333h >1 DS10 466h >t >And we are getting: >1 DS10 600a >2G >And, our management decided to drop hardware maintenance a while back.n > G >I want to propose to my management that we get UPSes for all of these.c >oI >We don't need UPS for uptime, since all these system control other stufffI >that goes down when the power fails.  But I think UPSes would reduce ourhM >hardware repair and replacement costs, and would reduced the likelihood thate; >a system would become flakey and start failing during use.e >mC >Is this justified?  Do you know of any info that would justify it?, >,J >Are there power conditioning solutions that are less expensive than UPSes >that I should consider? >  i >sF What is there to justify, you can acquire a 1500VA Cyberpower UPS for I $200 which is most likely enough to handle all the above mentioned gear, iF but even if you needed two because you wanted more run time, for $400 I you will eliminate any headaches directly associated with bad power; Bad  I power fries power supplies which can also turn around and do a number on hF system components (presuming you have no power conditioning at all).  D Surge suppressing power strips are a basic necessity for spikes and E lightening on any piece of electronics, but the the power-cycling of aG gear by brown-outs, black-outs, power sin wave formation, will shorten i  the life-span of your equipment.     Barry    -- e  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:39:19 -0600 % From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> Y Subject: Re: Upgrading VMS on a system where hardware is newer than the system disk OS su49 Message-ID: <17y%b.28012$LD5.25541@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>   H I had a similar experience when moving a box from a QBB of a GS320 to anH ES47.  I had already re-pointed my SAN drives to the newer server, and IJ tried to boot.  It failed.  I was not able to boot until after I performedL the VMS upgrade.  I inserted the Upgrade CD, booted the CD  and upgraded theG SAN based OS disk.  After the upgrade completed, I was able to boot theh system.     1 Rich Jordan <jordan@ccs4vms.com> wrote in messagee7 news:cc5619f2.0402261407.4d6ebda8@posting.google.com...nG > Here's a new one for us.  I've never had this come up, and I can't do E > a test run due to lack of hardware.  We have a customer with a DS10sB > running V7.2-1.  They're going to upgrade to a DS15, which has aF > minimum VMS requirement of V7.3-1 (plus TIMA).  There is a miniscule > downtime window. >sD > Since doing a V7.2-1 upgrade to V7.3-1 or newer on the DS10 is notD > feasible due to time, I'm wondering if the following is supported. > E > Image backup the DS10 disks to tape, then restore on the DS15 disks-F > using the CD boot environment.  We won't try to boot the DS15 on the > V7.2-1 system disk.c >RH > Boot the DS15 with the V7.3-1 (or -2) CD and upgrade the V7.2-1 system1 > disk.  Bring up a happy DS15 with supported OS.  >FH > In other words are there any issues upgrading a VMS system disk from aC > version not supported on the hardware being used for the upgrade,nG > since we are obviously using a supported version to boot and actuallyo > perform the upgrade? > @ > Seems like there should be no problem, but if anyone knows I'd > appreciate hearing about it. >-
 > Rich Jordan- > CCS-   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Feb 2004 00:13:49 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.come4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?+ Message-ID: <c1m23t051u@enews2.newsguy.com>   4 Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@flying-disk.com> wrote:? > hobbyist license.   However, it now appears that the hobbyista3 > license program has been abolished.   Madi wrote:c  C >  > Digital/Compaq/HP has never distinguished between business andiD >  > hobbyist, so the license that transfers with the system, is theF >  > only type available for that particular system.  There is no such& >  > thing as a free hobbyist license.  L I'm really hoping this is the case of a clueless HP employee, however, givenK how unfriendly HP is to Hobbyists, it wouldn't suprise me if this is true. hI This is why I've really wished that the Hobbyist program had been handledt/ the way that the Tru64 Hobbyist program is/was.    		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:49:26 -0800r3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>a4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?. Message-ID: <403E9416.9080306@Flying-Disk.com>   healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:6 > Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@flying-disk.com> wrote:  A > > hobbyist license.   However, it now appears that the hobbyists5 > > license program has been abolished.   Madi wrote:y  D > > > Digital/Compaq/HP has never distinguished between business andE > > > hobbyist, so the license that transfers with the system, is the G > > > only type available for that particular system.  There is no such ' > > > thing as a free hobbyist license.o  N > I'm really hoping this is the case of a clueless HP employee, however, givenM > how unfriendly HP is to Hobbyists, it wouldn't suprise me if this is true. -  C Since this is the official HP contact/spokesperson, I don't want toh@ second-guess him.   He is obviously much better connected to the2 policy makers than the troops in the trenches are.  E I am very sad about this.   I wonder how it affects hobbyist licensesn that have already been issued?   Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:55:17 -0500u% From: "DAVID TURNER" <DAVID@HPAQ.NET>e4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?0 Message-ID: <103t5bpbq2jv01f@news.supernews.com>  - Sounds to me that they are completely wrong !v  : Ask www.montagar.com - I am sure they know what's going on   -- 0 Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St Suite 180t Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 4476622 Fax: 912 201 0402e, Email (SPAMproofed) dbturner@islandco.nospam (replace nospam with .com)    @ "Alan Frisbie" <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote in message& news:403E7B05.20403@Flying-Disk.com...< > I just had an e-mail exchange with HP's licensing contact,2 > Madi Braje, as listed on the licensing web page: > 7 >    http://licensing.hp.com/swl/view.slm?page=contactsi >f >    Madi Braje - West Regionr >    Telephone: 847-781-6756 >    Email: Madi.Braje@hp.coma >o= > I was trying to see if I could get the original VMS licensek? > for the XP1000 I bought transferred to me.   Since I am goingt? > to be using it to play with Apache, etc., I mentioned that if.: > the license couldn't be transferred I would just use the? > hobbyist license.   However, it now appears that the hobbyistn3 > license program has been abolished.   Madi wrote:  >cC >  > Digital/Compaq/HP has never distinguished between business andhD >  > hobbyist, so the license that transfers with the system, is theF >  > only type available for that particular system.  There is no such& >  > thing as a free hobbyist license. >s > R.I.P. >  > Alan >C   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:02:18 -0800i3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>t4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?. Message-ID: <403E971A.2000402@Flying-Disk.com>   DAVID TURNER wrote:l  / > Sounds to me that they are completely wrong !o  ; I hope so, but it's awfully hard to argue with the officiald HP spokesperson.   Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:19:23 GMTl0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?, Message-ID: <%bC%b.69281$4o.90420@attbi_s52>   Alan Frisbie wrote:s   > glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:   >> Alan Frisbie wrote:  < >> Well, as of a few minutes ago both the license issuer and< >> software ordering process are still working.  It accepted2 >> my PayPal payment, so they better send the CDs!  A > Just like 321 Studios got swamped with orders immediately afterh$ > the judge issued his ruling!   :-)  6 Well there is that, but the license is sent by e-mail, and I do have that..   -- glen    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:44:18 -0600 % From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> 4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?8 Message-ID: <Iby%b.28014$LD5.2648@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>  G I think that as long as you have people like John Wisnewski working foreH Compaq/HP he will continue to promote the hobbiest licenses from within.I When John visited our site, one of our luncheon discussions was all about B the hobbiest conventions and related groups that he was active in.  > Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote in message( news:403E971A.2000402@Flying-Disk.com... > DAVID TURNER wrote:  > 1 > > Sounds to me that they are completely wrong !l >i= > I hope so, but it's awfully hard to argue with the officiali > HP spokesperson. >t > Alan >g   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 02:17:24 GMTuL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?6 Message-ID: <00A2E0E6.69D6C467@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  b In article <403E7B05.20403@Flying-Disk.com>, Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes:; >I just had an e-mail exchange with HP's licensing contact, 1 >Madi Braje, as listed on the licensing web page:s >u6 >   http://licensing.hp.com/swl/view.slm?page=contacts >a >   Madi Braje - West Region >   Telephone: 847-781-6756  >   Email: Madi.Braje@hp.com >o< >I was trying to see if I could get the original VMS license> >for the XP1000 I bought transferred to me.   Since I am going> >to be using it to play with Apache, etc., I mentioned that if9 >the license couldn't be transferred I would just use thei> >hobbyist license.   However, it now appears that the hobbyist2 >license program has been abolished.   Madi wrote: >tB > > Digital/Compaq/HP has never distinguished between business andC > > hobbyist, so the license that transfers with the system, is theeE > > only type available for that particular system.  There is no such % > > thing as a free hobbyist license.   D I think - could be wrong - that you're taking  a carelessly written H statement too seriously.  What Madi's saying, I think, is that he (she?)H can't transfer a hobbyist license; they don't have a hobbyist license onC file, and for that matter, they can't sell/give you a free hobbyistBD license; you have to get  that through the hobbyist license channel.  I You can't transfer free EDU licenses either; you need to get new free EDUa	 licenses.x   -- Alang   -- hO ===============================================================================a0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056.M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025iO ===============================================================================g   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:06:17 +0000 (UTC)n* From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)I Subject: Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?d0 Message-ID: <c1obg9$3dv$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>  I Okay, folks, I have more info.  First, toss aside all the arguments aboutsJ using extended precesion, or even about summing values; I produced the odd behvior with a simple program.  E Here's the short of it: It seems that on umace (my older system still E runining VMS 7.1-2 and therefore an older LIBRTL) rounding of a valuenD ending with .5 is down upwards except when the value is in the rangeE 100.5-999.5, in which case it's rounded down.  On umtof (the upgradedc1 system running 7.3-1) rounding is always upwards.d   Here's the test I did:  J I wrote a Fortran program (ROUND2) to do the roundoff test.  You give it aP starting value (integer) and number of iterations.  It loops that many times andO in each iteration generates the number   x = start + i + .5   so we get a large O range of values, all at .5.  It then does an internal WRITE of the value twice:sN once with F15.5 and once with F10.0.  It then compares the first 10 charactersN (the integer part) of each resultant string value.  If they are the same, thenO the LIBRTL routine rounded down; if different, it rounded up.  It outputs those K cases that round down.  (Btw, an internal WRITE calls the same conversationbL routine as an external WRITE, so we're getting the same behavior as if every line was written.)  I I ran ROUND2 over a large range of positive values.  Here's the results:    $ 	value of x		UMACE (old)	UMTOF (new)0 in the range 0.5 - 99.5		rounded down	rounded up0 in the range 100.5 - 999.5	rounded up	rounded up6 in the range 1000.5 and higher	rounded down	rounded up  M I didn't check values over 1E6; 1E6 itself (that is, 1000000.5) rounds up.  AfK spot check of negative values shows they behave the same as their poisitiveeO counterparts if you replace "down" with "towards zero" and "up" with "away frome zero" in the above table.a  N So it seems there's a flaw in the 7.1-2 rounding routine that treats the rangeG 100.5-999.5 differently than other values wrt rounding of .5, while thehA 7.3-1 rounding routine is consistent in that it always rounds up.y  - I *do* wish this had been documented, though.m  9 If you want to test this yourself, here's my source code:m   C ROUND2.FORF C Program rounds off values that always end in .5, detects those cases, C where rounding is down down instead of up. 	CHARACTER STR1*15, STR2*10h Cn) 10	PRINT *,'Enter start value, # to test'  	READ(*,*,END=90) START,N  	IF (N.LE.0) STOP 	 	DO I=1,N  	  VALUE = START + I + .5g 	  WRITE(STR1,101) VALUE 	  WRITE(STR2,102) VALUE 101	  FORMAT(F15.5)l 102	  FORMAT(F10.0)e4 	  IF (STR1(1:10) .EQ. STR2(1:10)) PRINT *,STR1,STR2 	ENDDO 	GOTO 10 90	STOPn 	END  G If I had to theorize, I'd say that HP noticed a flaw in the floating toeJ character conversion routines and corrected it, but forgot to tell anyone.   Can anyone confirm this?  K Did anyone read anything in the release notes for 7.2, 7.2-x, 7.3, or 7.3-1sG that mentioned a change to LIBRTL or to rounding behavior?  I only readiI through the release notes for 7.3-1, since I upgraded directly there fromt 7.1-2.   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.edut   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 20:49:59 +0000 (UTC) * From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau); Subject: Re: Why does smtp mail between local systems fail?e0 Message-ID: <c1oahn$31o$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>  I On Feb 25 Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> wrote:h  J >make sure you have installed ECO 2 to the 5.3 system.  Increase CTLPAGES 1 >to something like 1600  this also seems to help.C  K I tried your advice, Michael, using the 7.3-2 system (which runs tcpip 5.4)eH as a testbed.  I did a telnet/port=25 from one of the other systems thatJ had been having trouble, just to eliminate the overhead of the usual email	 messages.n  K Prior to this, with CTLPAGES at 256, this telnet to port 25 took 61-70 secs H for the smtp server to respond with its 220 hello message.  It now takes 25-31 secs.s  H Clearly, something has improved, though I can't say why.  Would a higher( CTLPAGES value produce more improvement?  I After I did the telnet operation on the remote system, I quickly switched D to the receiving system, located the process that was doing the smtpK session, and did a SHOW PROC/CON/ID= on it.  Its page faults, buffered i/o,.I direct i/o, and cpu time did not change from when I started looking at itnH (about 10 secs into the test) until when it responded with the 220 helloH message.  So if the theory is that the process is page faulting or doingJ heavy i/o elsewhere and causing the delay, that's wrong; it is waiting for0 something before sending out that hello message.   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.edue   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2004 13:00:38 -0800- From: phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) < Subject: Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so...= Message-ID: <5ee1d1b7.0402271300.6d3fb6b1@posting.google.com>a  ^ Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote in message news:<403f1255$0$22407$626a14ce@news.free.fr>...  (  [ ] retire and put Sue in your armchair   [ ] change the name back to VMS'  [ ] ask Ogilvy to build an ad campaignl  [ ] cancel i64 developmente&  [ ] restore the Alpha chip production$  [X] start VMS/Athlon-64 engineering@  [ ] check if this is true that there are still PDP's running in
 production=  [ ] go and visit Customers with a 64 slides PPT presentationw>  [ ] restore DECworld for VMS and build the greatest show ever=       (if you choose this option, please select Cannes as theh location. Thanks)lA  [ ] suddently wake up and think that all this was just a(nother).	 nightmare   [X] other (please comment)F?      - Start VMS for Sun/SPARC (or next generation of SUN chip)o-      - Start VMS for IBM Risc Chip TechnologysB      - Setup a VMS Partners Netwrok for Independent S/W Developers Network.8      - Increase Visibility of VMS to the General Public.  F Basically, expand the platforms that VMS will run on to the full rangeF of servers on the market and exploit the ideas and expertise base that currently exists.e  F The biggest strength that MS has is NOT technology.  Technology is NOTF what put MS in the position to be able to dictate IT standards.  TheirE strength is simply market share through massive advertising and depth> of product base.   So the same with VMS.o   PT.d   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 00:45:52 GMTu0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com>/ Subject: Re: [TCPIP V5.4] Found a bug again ;-)T= Message-ID: <4rw%b.77897$Wa.38601@news-server.bigpond.net.au>s  C > However, in my case it creates another version and doesn't appenda	 anything.xD > And I think this is good. So, only the HELP/doc should be fixed... >a > Do you agree ?  + I agree, and I've forwarded your report on..   Matt.i   -- n= -------------------------------------------------------------d OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Hewlett-Packard Companyu Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAf= -------------------------------------------------------------t   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.116 ************************