0 INFO-VAX	Tue, 06 Jan 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 11      Contents:/ Re: A Christmas gift to all haters of Micro$hit / Re: A Christmas gift to all haters of Micro$hit A Re: Actual code and error message: procedure using external value ? Any using reset_errors or zero device error counters for Alpha? C Re: Any using reset_errors or zero device error counters for Alpha? C Re: Any using reset_errors or zero device error counters for Alpha? C Re: Any using reset_errors or zero device error counters for Alpha? C Re: Any using reset_errors or zero device error counters for Alpha? 
 Blocking spam  Re: Blocking spam  Re: Bugcheck - PCAPVCM?  Re: Bugcheck - PCAPVCM?  Re: Bugcheck - PCAPVCM?  Re: Bugcheck - PCAPVCM?  Re: Bugcheck - PCAPVCM?  Re: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX Re: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX Re: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX Re: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX Re: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX Re: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX Re: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX' Re: CSWS 2.0/VMS 7.3-1 issues/questions  Re: end-search next sentence, Re: Floating point arithmetic support in DCL? Re: influencing the order in which page and swap files are used ? Re: influencing the order in which page and swap files are used ) Re: Interested in learning about OpenVMS. & Re: Is VMS 7.1-2 as stable as 7.1-1H2?
 new to vms Re: OpenMotif on ClosedVMS* OpenVMS/VAX Hobbyist license checksum woes. Re: OpenVMS/VAX Hobbyist license checksum woes. Re: OpenVMS/VAX Hobbyist license checksum woes Re: password questions password questions Re: password questions Re: password questions# Re: Peeking in to the serial buffer # Re: Peeking in to the serial buffer  Re: Problem with CSWS V2 Re: Problem with CSWS V2& Re: scrambled terminal output on OPA0:& Re: scrambled terminal output on OPA0:& Re: scrambled terminal output on OPA0:& Re: scrambled terminal output on OPA0:& Re: scrambled terminal output on OPA0:& Re: scrambled terminal output on OPA0:8 Re: Secure Web Server Version 2.0 available for download# Re: Toasted AS2100 ECU floppy - VMS ! Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome ! Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome ! Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome O Re: Well Andrew, "3" count them "3" security patches for VMS in five  years ... O Re: Well Andrew, "3" count them "3" security patches for VMS in five  years ... N Re: Well Andrew, "3" count them "3" security patches for VMS in five years ...0 [OT] Top posting (was: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX)4 Re: [OT] Top posting (was: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX)4 Re: [OT] Top posting (was: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX)4 Re: [OT] Top posting (was: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX)4 Re: [OT]: Interesting article on search engine tools4 Re: [OT]: Interesting article on search engine tools4 Re: [OT]: Interesting article on search engine tools  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 5 Jan 2004 19:19:14 GMT , From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)8 Subject: Re: A Christmas gift to all haters of Micro$hit9 Message-ID: <btcdbh$5ftn2$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>   < In article <864Kb.4800$GK4.3900@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>,A 	Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> writes:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >  > <snipage>  >>  F >> And in what way is MS different?  I used to get frequent calls fromE >> my father asking me to come down and make his computer work again. D >> I still get calls from my daughter and the various places she hasG >> worked always consider her to be the local computer whiz. (Just this D >> past week a friend asked her for help installing the software forI >> a digital camera she got as an early Christmas gift.  After installing G >> the software the machine, running XP, went into a continuous loop of F >> boot-reset-boot-reset. I've never seen a Unix system do that.)  Oh,F >> but MS offers support, you say.  Now, where did I leave that credit
 >> card??? >>  I >> The masses can't deal with MS any better than they can deal with Unix. F >> As long as it works out of the box (and commercial distributions ofG >> Linux do) they are both just as good.  When things go wrong, they it H >> is debateable which one is worse, but I know which one I would ratherI >> try to fix. Incidently, the solution to the problem I mnentioned above D >> turned out to be a complete reinstall of XP and all applications.G >> Luckily, my daughter had set her up and got her inthe habit of doing G >> backups of all data to removable media so no business data was lost. 8 >> Do you think the same would be true of most MS users? >>   > B > My XP box did that and the fix was a bit easier than a complete K > reinstall -- and you don't actually need to load anything to get it into  K > the boot-reset-reboot mode....we would go into the office in the morning  I > or when we got off work and it would look fine, but the keyboard would  E > be locked up so we would do a hard reboot.  That is when the cycle  
 > started...    G And I have never seen any version of Unix or Linux do that. Strike one.   E >            What I did was to get it into SAFE MODE and do a system  G > restore.   This restores your system back to a known good state at a  E > system checkpoint.  It is under the system admin tools menu -- and    E You know that, and I know that, my daughter, who is considerably more G computer literate than average, didn't know that and I would be willing G to bet none of the normal uesrs around here know how to do that either.    Strike two.   F > sometimes would need to go back 2 or 3 checkpoints until it started E > working again...  The things you do when you forgot to do the last   > backup.... :)  > : > I had to do this at least 4 or 5 times last year (2003).  * See my first comment above.  Strike three.  D The only time Unix/Linux with any of the modern GUI's is problematicD is when things go wrong.  But then, so is Windows and things will goC wrong with Windows a lot more often than they will with Unix/Linux.   F Just think if VMS came with a one-button install, a GUI and a real set4 of desktop apps.  Too bad they abandoned that niche.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 20:06:34 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG8 Subject: Re: A Christmas gift to all haters of Micro$hit0 Message-ID: <00A2B726.04EEF93F@SendSpamHere.ORG>  h In article <btcdbh$5ftn2$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: {...snip...}F >>            What I did was to get it into SAFE MODE and do a system H >> restore.   This restores your system back to a known good state at a F >> system checkpoint.  It is under the system admin tools menu -- and  > F >You know that, and I know that, my daughter, who is considerably moreH >computer literate than average, didn't know that and I would be willingH >to bet none of the normal uesrs around here know how to do that either.  3 The only true SAFE MODE on a PeeCee is powered off.    --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.  --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 07:29:28 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>J Subject: Re: Actual code and error message: procedure using external value0 Message-ID: <3FFA63D8.68E9CC54@sture.homeip.net>   notValid@yahoo.com wrote:  >  > Code consisted of: >  > linkage section. > copy  "nameofcopylib"  >  > where the copylib has + >       01  FNCI-FUNCTION-INFO IS EXTERNAL. 2 >             05 fnci-lower-element stuff pic x().- >         all elements add up to 117 char....  > - > Procedure division using fnc-function-info.  >  > AND HERE IS THE Error message  > % > 01  FNCI-FUNCTION-INFO IS EXTERNAL. H >                   %COBOL-E-EXTERN, EXTERNAL valid only for named 01 or > 77  ? STREWTH! You don't make it easy at all for us to give you help. F I asked you for a bit of source code, expecting to be able to shove itG straight into my compiler, but no, you seem to expect me to code up the D ENVIRONMENT and DATA DIVISIONS myself in an attempt to reproduce the problem.  H Add to which, when you sent me a private email, you simply pointed me at0 your slightly different question on openvms.org.  ) Sorry, but ask here, get an answer here.    D Yes, I do knon the answer to the question you posed there, but quiteA frankly, you were trying to get me to put too much time into your & problem, and I felt you were using me.  D Tough. Pay for a consultant if you need that amount of hand holding.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jan 2004 12:56:31 -0800 + From: c00per11242001@yahoo.ca (Vic Mendham) H Subject: Any using reset_errors or zero device error counters for Alpha?= Message-ID: <f7a73cb1.0401051256.56ea4456@posting.google.com>   D I have a script for reseting errors on VAX and it works great, I wasF trying to port to Alpha, and it crashed my test server. I found a linkA here from 2001 and was wondering if anyone is using this to reset  errors on their Alpha's.   http://groups.google.com/groups?q=reset+errors+group:comp.os.vms&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.os.vms&selm=C2256ADC.007432F5.00%40jklh21.valmet.com&rnum=5   Watch out for the line wrap...   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:03:22 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGL Subject: Re: Any using reset_errors or zero device error counters for Alpha?0 Message-ID: <00A2B72D.F3743917@SendSpamHere.ORG>  k In article <f7a73cb1.0401051256.56ea4456@posting.google.com>, c00per11242001@yahoo.ca (Vic Mendham) writes: E >I have a script for reseting errors on VAX and it works great, I was G >trying to port to Alpha, and it crashed my test server. I found a link B >here from 2001 and was wondering if anyone is using this to reset >errors on their Alpha's.  >  >http://groups.google.com/groups?q=reset+errors+group:comp.os.vms&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.os.vms&selm=C2256ADC.007432F5.00%40jklh21.valmet.com&rnum=5  >  >Watch out for the line wrap...    Not me... I still use DELTA. ;)    --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.  --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:12:23 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.comL Subject: Re: Any using reset_errors or zero device error counters for Alpha?Q Message-ID: <OFFA997262.3C3A0CE0-ON85256E12.0079B05E-85256E12.007A647F@metso.com>    You want clear_errors:   =======================   K ----- Forwarded by Norm Raphael/WOR/Automation/METSO on 01/05/2004 05:15 PM  -----   H goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) wrote on 02/27/2003 11:59:34 PM:    C Two brand-new applications have been contributed to my VMS freeware 	 archives:   +    o MORE  --  Simple more/less for OpenVMS   D      MORE is a simple version of the UNIX "more" or "less" commands.D      It lets you view a file and navigate back and forth through the      file while viewing it.   8      MORE was written by Matjaz Rihtar <matjaz@eunet.si>  A    o CLEAR_ERRORS  -- Clears device error counts on OpenVMS Alpha   =      Written by Mark Oakley <mark.oakley@verizonwireless.com>    Thanks to Matjaz and Mark!   http://www.process.com/openvms/   4 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/more.zip< ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/clear_errors.zip9 http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/more.zip A http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/clear_errors.zip 0 ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/more.zip8 ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/clear_errors.zip5 http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/more.zip = http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/clear_errors.zip    and the other usual mirrors.   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/  goathunter@goatley.com   =========================   9 VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote on 01/05/2004 04:03:22 PM:   ? > In article <f7a73cb1.0401051256.56ea4456@posting.google.com>, / > c00per11242001@yahoo.ca (Vic Mendham) writes: G > >I have a script for reseting errors on VAX and it works great, I was I > >trying to port to Alpha, and it crashed my test server. I found a link D > >here from 2001 and was wondering if anyone is using this to reset > >errors on their Alpha's.  > > @ > >http://groups.google.com/groups?q=reset+errors+group:comp.os.E > vms&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.os.vms&selm=C2256ADC.007432F5.00%  > 40jklh21.valmet.com&rnum=5 > > ! > >Watch out for the line wrap...   ! > Not me... I still use DELTA. ;)    > --D > http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security) > solutions that others only claim to be.  > --2 > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  4 > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 17:14:41 -0500 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>L Subject: Re: Any using reset_errors or zero device error counters for Alpha?8 Message-ID: <c9ojvvo1uku9da1pn6b368c7dubhg2v6nh@4ax.com>  J On 5 Jan 2004 12:56:31 -0800, c00per11242001@yahoo.ca (Vic Mendham) wrote:  E >I have a script for reseting errors on VAX and it works great, I was G >trying to port to Alpha, and it crashed my test server. I found a link B >here from 2001 and was wondering if anyone is using this to reset >errors on their Alpha's.  >  >http://groups.google.com/groups?q=reset+errors+group:comp.os.vms&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.os.vms&selm=C2256ADC.007432F5.00%40jklh21.valmet.com&rnum=5  >  >Watch out for the line wrap...   G I didn't try to access the link above, but I have successfully used the . CLEAR_ERRORS program posted by Mark Oakley at:  B 	http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?CLEAR_ERRORS  P I had previously used a program called ZDEC (which I also got from Mark about 15K years ago) but found that it seemed to intermittently crash multi-processor  Alpha V7.x systems.   N I've not crashed my system with CLEAR_ERRORS, but have only run it a few times" -- by no means an exhaustive test.I ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) I -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:37:46 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)L Subject: Re: Any using reset_errors or zero device error counters for Alpha?$ Message-ID: <btcsg9$usk$4@online.de>  = In article <f7a73cb1.0401051256.56ea4456@posting.google.com>, . c00per11242001@yahoo.ca (Vic Mendham) writes:   F > I have a script for reseting errors on VAX and it works great, I wasH > trying to port to Alpha, and it crashed my test server. I found a linkC > here from 2001 and was wondering if anyone is using this to reset  > errors on their Alpha's. >  > http://groups.google.com/groups?q=reset+errors+group:comp.os.vms&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.os.vms&selm=C2256ADC.007432F5.00%40jklh21.valmet.com&rnum=5 >   > Watch out for the line wrap...  F I believe this functionality is built-in in the newest version of VMS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 02:05:54 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Blocking spamJ Message-ID: <6KoKb.7726$1g41.7436@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  " I came across this resource today.- Thought it may be of some use to others here.    http://www.spamhaus.org/   What does the SBL contain?  G The Spamhaus Block List (SBL) is a realtime database of IP addresses of L spam-sources, including known spammers, spam gangs, spam operations and spamJ support services. The SBL's Rationale, listing criteria and procedures are detailed here.     Who uses the SBL?   G The SBL is used by a number of the world's backbones, many large tier-1 E providers and ISPs in all countries, by a number of U.S. and European B government and military networks, and a number of giant free emailD providers. Most large SBL subscribers, universities and corporationsJ (including major banks, aerospace, electronics and computer manufacturers)B have free hourly SBL feeds (zone transfers) protecting a user baseE calculated in November 2003 to be approximately 160 Million users. In I addition to these known subscribers, thousands of smaller ISPs, firms and I mail systems throughout the Internet subscribe to the SBL in the standard K free DNS-Query mode, estimated to be serving in excess of 40 Million users, A meaning the SBL total coverage is estimated at 200 Million users.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 02:35:35 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: Blocking spamJ Message-ID: <X9pKb.8021$1g41.7207@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  / Forgot to add the following to my earlier post:     ? http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/12/20031216-4.html   H On December 16, 2003, President Bush signed into law the Controlling theH Assault of Non-Solicited Pornography and Marketing Act of 2003 (CAN-SPAMJ Act), which establishes a framework of administrative, civil, and criminalB tools to help America's consumers, businesses, and families combat- unsolicited commercial e-mail, known as spam.   L  The new law is a ***pro-consumer*** measure that allows consumers to chooseB to stop further unsolicited spam from a sender. It also provides a@ protection against spam containing unmarked sexually-oriented or pornographic material.     Public Law No: 108-187.   J See also http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c108:6:./temp/~c10819XM6K::  $ to read the gory details, including:  E AVAILABILITY OF CEASE-AND-DESIST ORDERS AND INJUNCTIVE RELIEF WITHOUT I SHOWING OF KNOWLEDGE- Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, in H any proceeding or action pursuant to subsection (a), (b), (c), or (d) ofK this section to enforce compliance, through an order to cease and desist or L an injunction, with section 5(a)(1)(C), section 5(a)(2), clause (ii), (iii),F or (iv) of section 5(a)(4)(A), section 5(b)(1)(A), or section 5(b)(3),K *neither* the Commission nor the Federal Communications Commission shall be I required to allege or prove the state of mind required by such section or 
 subparagraph.    also       (3) STATUTORY DAMAGES-  F       (A) IN GENERAL- For purposes of paragraph (1)(B)(ii), the amountI determined under this paragraph is the amount calculated by *multiplying* K the number of violations (with *each* separately addressed unlawful message I that is transmitted or attempted to be transmitted over the facilities of L the provider of Internet access service, or that is transmitted or attemptedJ to be transmitted to an electronic mail address obtained from the providerL of Internet access service in violation of section 5(b)(1)(A)(i), treated as a *separate* violation) by--  I         (i) up to $100, in the case of a violation of section 5(a)(1); or   H         (ii) up to $25, in the case of any other violation of section 5.  H       (B) LIMITATION- For any violation of section 5 (other than sectionE 5(a)(1)), the amount determined under subparagraph (A) may not exceed  $1,000,000.   I       (C) AGGRAVATED DAMAGES- The court may increase a damage award to an H amount equal to not more than three times the amount otherwise available under this paragraph if--   K         (i) the court determines that the defendant committed the violation  willfully and knowingly; or   J         (ii) the defendant's unlawful activity included one or more of the0 aggravated violations set forth in section 5(b).  L       (D) REDUCTION OF DAMAGES- In assessing damages under subparagraph (A),; the court *may*  [but does not have to]  consider whether--   I         (i) the defendant has established and implemented, with due care, H commercially reasonable practices and procedures designed to effectively prevent such violations; or   K         (ii) the violation occurred despite commercially reasonable efforts K to maintain compliance with the practices and procedures to which reference  is made in clause (i).  K     (4) ATTORNEY FEES- In any action brought pursuant to paragraph (1), the K court may, in its discretion, require an undertaking for the payment of the G costs of such action, and assess reasonable costs, including reasonable # attorneys' fees, against any party.     J In other words, your grandmother could be convicted and bankrupted even if@ she does't know her computer was hijacked for spamming purposes.  L  And with penalites ranging from $25 - $100 per message per address, I guessJ we'll soon see more large corporations relocating even more staff to IndiaI in order to avoid any possible liability should any of their US-domiciled  Billy-boxes get hijacked.   ' What a great piece of legislation. Not!    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:34:30 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>   Subject: Re: Bugcheck - PCAPVCM?0 Message-ID: <1MadnWzdK50UaWSiRVn-jg@comcast.com>  L Some of us run "those crappy old versions of VMS" because we have no choice!  E Our systems are owned by businesses and institutions for business or  G institutional reasons.  Spending more money than is required simply to  D keep them running is done only when spending that money will show a  return on the investment.   H The investment can be substantial!   In an academic environment, I used G to take the machine for a couple of hours when no one was using it and  ! upgrade.  Total cost, about $100.   I My first upgrade in a commercial environment consumed 3,300 man hours!!   F It was a production cluster and, when we brought it up Monday morning E following upgrade weekend, it HAD TO WORK!   This meant that we were  F required to build a test cluster that modeled the production cluster, E same software, same data.  We then benchmarked every application and  > every batch job.  Then we upgraded the test cluster and again F benchmarked every application and every batch job.  The upgraded test H cluster required a lot of tuning, mostly by the DBA Team, to get RDB to B run each update and query as fast as, or faster than the original F benchmarks.  Then we ran the whole benchmark/test suite again.  Then, 6 and only then were we ready to attempt the real thing.  E We shut down the cluster Friday night, split every shadow set, write  E protected one member of each shadow set and rebooted using the other  E member of each shadow set.  We upgraded VMS, RDB, ACMS, and about 35  F other layered products.  If we had been forced to back out,  we would 6 have  rebooted from the unupgraded shadow set members.  E There is no way the business would have touched this with a ten foot  A pole except for the fact that they needed functionality that was  F available in RDB V6.1 and was not in the version we were then running.E I'd estimate the total cost to have been somewhere between $300K and  ? $500K.  We got the return on the investment because of the new  G functionality.  One nice new feature which was NOT why we upgraded was  H the ability to give RDB "Hints files" to tell the optimizer how best to C handle each transaction.  That bought us increases in the speed of  & handling just about every transaction.   Wayne Sewell wrote:   4 >>From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>7 >>Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-75BBvBL1sjmf@localhost>  >>X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms " >>Subject: Re: Bugcheck - PCAPVCM? >>     >> >  >    > F >>I've often considered doing that but reject it every time because I G >>wouldn't then be able to run my Q/A tests on the earlier version(s).  H >>We're up to 7.1 as a minimum version now. We'll leap to 7.3-1 soon andG >>forget the backwards compatibility stuff, well at least for versions   >>prior to that. >>     >> >  > O >Yes, these people who insist on running old, crappy versions of vms don't seem N >to realize how much effort is involved in supporting them.  In order to test,O >you have to have a machine of that ancient vintage (vax and/or alpha), because O >newer machines won't run that version.  Then you have to *keep* the damn thing N >running, despite the difficulty of getting parts, disk drives, network cards,
 >whatever. > K >Yes, yes, the older machines run a long time, which is why the customer is J >running them, but what if your test machine craps out?  It is living hellJ >trying to repair it or find another one that is in operational condition. > N >This pain is intensified when working with the Thruway (remote disk and tape)G >product, because then *two* nodes are involved, which can be different L >architectures and versions, and you have to be able to run both at the sameM >time.  Right now I am trying to diagnose a problem that occurs at a customer D >site where a vax 6.2 client is connecting to an alpha 7.2-1 server. > H >It would be a *real* nightmare without storageworks, because that makesN >switching vms versions on the test machines somewhat managable, but there are% >still a lot of combinations to test.  > P >The problem gets only worse as time goes on, with more and more vms versions toN >test and the old and crappy versions getting farther and farther out of date. >  >WayneP >===============================================================================O >Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com < >http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   P >===============================================================================C >Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?" - >	Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"  >    >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:23:12 -0600( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>  Subject: Re: Bugcheck - PCAPVCM?/ Message-ID: <00A2B741.714B62BD.1@tachysoft.com>   & >Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:34:30 -05004 >From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>   >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms! >Subject: Re: Bugcheck - PCAPVCM?   M >Some of us run "those crappy old versions of VMS" because we have no choice!  > F >Our systems are owned by businesses and institutions for business or H >institutional reasons.  Spending more money than is required simply to E >keep them running is done only when spending that money will show a   >return on the investment. >   & [stuff about marathon upgrade deleted]    J The flip side to this is that the longer you go without upgrading, and theH greater the range between your version and the current version, the moreN painful it is when you are finally forced to upgrade, because then you have toN go through intermediate versions and such if there is no direct upgrade path. O If database conversions are required, you might have to do more than one to get  to the final version.   N Incremental changes such as 7.3-1 to 7.3-2 are trivial compared with trying to= upgrade from 5.4 or something horrendously ancient like that.   I While some of our customers are indeed mired down with old versions, many M others have absolutely no problem keeping current, or at least no more than a L version or two behind.  So it *can* be done.  And many of these are not tiny" sites with just a couple of nodes.  M While the current version of tapesys will run on vms 6.2 (our current minimum N version; we sort of maintain a semi-supported frozen tapesys 5.2 for the olderN systems), it runs *better* on later versions because of new facilities such asG ICC, callable backup, MT3 density, tape drive fast skip, persona system $ services, etc.  The list is endless.   Wayne O =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O =============================================================================== B Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?", 	Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:47:37 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>   Subject: Re: Bugcheck - PCAPVCM?0 Message-ID: <OZOdnQeTZZNXvGeiRVn-hw@comcast.com>  @ In my current environment, I have two systems version locked at C OpenVMS/Alpha V6.2-1H3 because the application requires Sybase SQL  F Server and Sybase stopped development for VMS three or four years ago I and dropped all support for VMS as of last month.  VMS V7.0 was the last   supported version.  F Four other systems run Oracle.  I could upgrade V7.2-1 to 7.2-2 but I C can't, AFAIK, upgrade to V7.3 without also upgrading Oracle.  If I  H upgrade Oracle I have to upgrade Gembase.  The last time we upgraded we F spent about nine months at it and we did it for a business reason; we I wanted at least another three years out of the application and our backs  C were against the wall, performance wise, with the hardware we were  G running.  So the new hardware required a VMS upgrade along with Oracle   and Gembase.  G Management is, of course, determined to get rid of "legacy systems" so  H they are busy migrating us to the IBM Mainframe for the application and C Solaris for the Oracle databases. . . .  (There are other, better,  I reasons for doing this as well, like getting all divisions into a common   order entry system.)  H There will be no more VMS upgrades.  I hope to have another three years @ or maybe even four.  I'll be old enough to retire then.  In the H meantime, I have bought a Sun Ultra 5 workstation and am busy upgrading  my Unix skills.    Wayne Sewell wrote:   ' >>Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:34:30 -0500 5 >>From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>  >>     >> >  >    >  >>X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms " >>Subject: Re: Bugcheck - PCAPVCM? >>     >> >  >    > N >>Some of us run "those crappy old versions of VMS" because we have no choice! >>G >>Our systems are owned by businesses and institutions for business or  I >>institutional reasons.  Spending more money than is required simply to  F >>keep them running is done only when spending that money will show a  >>return on the investment.  >> >>     >> > ' >[stuff about marathon upgrade deleted]  >  > K >The flip side to this is that the longer you go without upgrading, and the I >greater the range between your version and the current version, the more O >painful it is when you are finally forced to upgrade, because then you have to O >go through intermediate versions and such if there is no direct upgrade path.  P >If database conversions are required, you might have to do more than one to get >to the final version. > O >Incremental changes such as 7.3-1 to 7.3-2 are trivial compared with trying to > >upgrade from 5.4 or something horrendously ancient like that. > J >While some of our customers are indeed mired down with old versions, manyN >others have absolutely no problem keeping current, or at least no more than aM >version or two behind.  So it *can* be done.  And many of these are not tiny # >sites with just a couple of nodes.  > N >While the current version of tapesys will run on vms 6.2 (our current minimumO >version; we sort of maintain a semi-supported frozen tapesys 5.2 for the older O >systems), it runs *better* on later versions because of new facilities such as H >ICC, callable backup, MT3 density, tape drive fast skip, persona system% >services, etc.  The list is endless.  >  >WayneP >===============================================================================O >Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com < >http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   P >===============================================================================C >Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?" - >	Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"  >    >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:06:30 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>  Subject: Re: Bugcheck - PCAPVCM?6 Message-ID: <3FFA2636.F8964309@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Wayne Sewell wrote:u > [snip]P > Yes, these people who insist on running old, crappy versions of vms don't seem= > to realize how much effort is involved in supporting them.     Ooohhh! Careful, there!f  D What folks "insist" on running is app.'s which were abandoned by theF vendor long ago. No upgrades = stay at "old" VMS. App.'s are what makeG hardware/o.s.-es happen. No app.'s = no market (kinda like where VMS isa at now, y'know?).   C ...and I never really thought of *ANY* VMS as "crappy". Well, maybe 1 V5.0, or V5.2 with no ECOs and before V5.2-1, ...   E The support effort *IS* ponderous, yes. Only the myopic would believeT
 otherwise.  B ... but when you're "wedded" to an app. that only runs on V4.5, or2 V5.5-2 or ... and nothing else, whaddaya gonna do?  F Heck, I know of one of Mark Levy's old sites that's still using uV2K'sD with touch screens to run a production line! Try finding THOSE these days!n  D Were I in management at one of those sites, my attitude would be theG same as it is now: if you as a vendor choose to leave me (the customer)eG behind, that's whose fault? Think about it: my job is to run a businesssG - *MY* business, not yours. You can sell me what I need or I'll go find  someone else who can/will.  H It's that simple. Do you WANT the customer's business or not? Yes or no?  H ...and if the support effort is overwhelming, then choose between makingC your product easier to support or losing your older customers. JusteB don't make the VMS mistake of losing your customer base ("shootingH yourself in the foot") and being unable to "run when you need to but can only hobble pitifully"...o   -- n David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/W   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:34:58 -0600( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>  Subject: Re: Bugcheck - PCAPVCM?/ Message-ID: <00A2B764.9D0FD190.1@tachysoft.com>l  & >Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:06:30 -0600A >From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>  >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms! >Subject: Re: Bugcheck - PCAPVCM?"    C >... but when you're "wedded" to an app. that only runs on V4.5, ors3 >V5.5-2 or ... and nothing else, whaddaya gonna do?s    H Not much *after* the fact.  There are ways to prevent it from happening.  M The people who get themselves into that situation have apparently never heardeN of software escrow, where a third party holds the source code for a product in/ case the software company goes out of business.a  O AFAIK, not many of our customers set it up, but some do.  Just a few weeks ago,-N I gave one of the support people instructions on how to package up the sourcesJ for transfer to the escrow entity, so presumably somebody had requested an escrow agreement.D   WayneeO ===============================================================================,N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O ===============================================================================dB Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?", 	Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:57:09 +0100+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>n% Subject: Re: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX 9 Message-ID: <btcja4$5p5ls$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>t  < "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> schreef in bericht- news:dp8mWhe7WIfl@eisner.encompasserve.org... D > In article <ZufKb.105$s8.1113@news.on.tac.net>, "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca> writes:  >c > <top posting corrected>  >'? > > "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@hp.com_remove_this> wrote in messageo1 > > news:5TeKb.11529$fu7.9533@news.cpqcorp.net...i >iA > >> If you are interested in fieldtesting the new images send meo- > >> your e-mail address. (do not reply here)s >b > <top posting corrected>  >h& > > yes I would be jabraga@flanagan.ca > C > Perhaps if people (two, so far) did not top-post, they would moreiB > carefully read Guy's gracious attempt to keep the newsgroup free
 > of clutter.h  J Umm, top posting is not a religion. That aside, I copied an email directlyK to Guy at the same time so the topposting was actually for his convenience.?H Sometimes it does serve a purpose. And yes, Guy does send answers pretty quickly." So what are you complaining about?   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jan 2004 15:40:51 -0600.- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) % Subject: Re: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOXo3 Message-ID: <FbLXYwSZIGE3@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  g In article <btcja4$5p5ls$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes:U > > > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> schreef in bericht/ > news:dp8mWhe7WIfl@eisner.encompasserve.org...r  C >> carefully read Guy's gracious attempt to keep the newsgroup freet >> of clutter.  $ > So what are you complaining about?   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 23:08:21 GMTb6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)% Subject: Re: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX 4 Message-ID: <F7mKb.417321$dt3.112212@news.chello.at>  f In article <5TeKb.11529$fu7.9533@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@hp.com_remove_this> writes: >Happy new year everyone.d   Same to you.  L >I have added the ability to create and delete mailboxes from DCL (permanent >and temporary) using :e >y >$ CREATE/MAILBOXe >$ DELETE/MAILBOX    You made my day. Thanks a lot.   -- m Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialisti E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 16:02:41 -0500d* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>% Subject: Re: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX ) Message-ID: <3FF9D0F1.B23C5E1D@istop.com>    Guy Peleg wrote: > $ CREATE/MAILBOX > $ DELETE/MAILBOX    N Wow ! If you've already started to do this, does this mean that you've already6 finished implementing floating point support ? :-) :-)  K Does the CREAT/MAILBOX have a /BUFFER= qualifier ?  Can it create a logicalm) name that points to the created mailbox ?a  L Since most hobbyists would be at 7.2, providing an image for 7.2 might yield# many more beta testers than for 7.3.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:24:57 +1100 From: BAH <bah@bit.bucket>% Subject: Re: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOXs, Message-ID: <ptppc1-0ne.ln1@deep.bit.bucket>  P On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 16:02:41 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Wrote : > Guy Peleg wrote: >> $ CREATE/MAILBOXt >> $ DELETE/MAILBOX  >  > P > Wow ! If you've already started to do this, does this mean that you've already8 > finished implementing floating point support ? :-) :-) > M > Does the CREAT/MAILBOX have a /BUFFER= qualifier ?  Can it create a logicald+ > name that points to the created mailbox ?  > N > Since most hobbyists would be at 7.2, providing an image for 7.2 might yield% > many more beta testers than for 7.3o    : The one I hacked together years ago does...:-) Get it from3 http://members.optushome.com.au/forsythm/dclmbx.zipa= I've not put it around much as by any standards it's rubbish.,? It does have one redeeming feature though. It works or at leasti? it does at the site where I did it - it's still in use. Sighhhhn, yesterdays hack is todays legacy solution...    D There's no doco but a look at the files concerned should reveal all.5 It even still works under something more recent...:-)        -- h  
 BAH Humbug   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 05:10:42 GMTeL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")% Subject: Re: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX-6 Message-ID: <00A2B758.D7693F01@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  f In article <5TeKb.11529$fu7.9533@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@hp.com_remove_this> writes: >Happy new year everyone.t >kL >I have added the ability to create and delete mailboxes from DCL (permanent >and temporary) using :t >h >$ CREATE/MAILBOXt >$ DELETE/MAILBOXn >y    J I don't need this at present (or any time soon, almost regrettably) but I 6 still think it's very cool, and fills a long-felt gap.   Thanks, Guy!   -- Alana -- oO ===============================================================================,0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056rM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025iO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 06:11:21 GMT:0 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@hp.com_remove_this>% Subject: Re: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOXr2 Message-ID: <dksKb.11633$2s.8780@news.cpqcorp.net>  B Logical name is required. Here is the list of supported qualifiers  
 /PERMANENT  * /TEMPORARY ! If omitted, temporary is used  
 /MESSAGE_SIZEl   /BUFFER_SIZE   /PROTECTIONv   /LOG  H I'm not sure about V7.2 image. If backporting the code won't be too much trouble...then you ever know.        Guyp      7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messagei# news:3FF9D0F1.B23C5E1D@istop.com...D > Guy Peleg wrote: > > $ CREATE/MAILBOX > > $ DELETE/MAILBOX >w >.H > Wow ! If you've already started to do this, does this mean that you've already 8 > finished implementing floating point support ? :-) :-) >rE > Does the CREAT/MAILBOX have a /BUFFER= qualifier ?  Can it create a4 logicalS+ > name that points to the created mailbox ?5 >6H > Since most hobbyists would be at 7.2, providing an image for 7.2 might yieldv% > many more beta testers than for 7.3n   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 20:14:40 GMTt) From: "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com>n0 Subject: Re: CSWS 2.0/VMS 7.3-1 issues/questions4 Message-ID: <QAjKb.11598$3W7.10537@news.cpqcorp.net>  ! Thanks for reporting the problem.o  I Yes, CSWS 2.0 requires an C run-time library patch (VMS731_ACRTL-V0300 is.A the latest and recommended version). We'll fix the documentation..  L The source code kit for CSWS 2.0 is not available yet, but it's in the plans6 and will post the source code kit when it's available.  
 Rick Barry OpenVMS System Software Groupn Hewlett-Packard Companye
 Nashua, NH  < "Ken Randell" <kenneth.randell@verizon.net> wrote in message7 news:79de9693.0312230800.3ebf33fe@posting.google.com...- > A couple of issues:  >,H > 1) The CSWS 2.0 looks like it requires a patched version of the C RTL,G > not the 'original' one from VMS 7.3-1 dated 18-JUL-2002.  This is not G > mentioned in the release notes.  What is the version of the CRTL that  > is actually required?  >=@ > 2) Assuming for some reason I wanted to get around #1 above byF > compiling/linking my own version of Apache 2.0, section 1.2.4 of theC > file CSWS_INSTALL_20.PDF tells me I can get the source code from:l >tH > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_source.html >S > The link from page:n > A > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws.htmla >. > points to the same place.e >dB > This URL has the source for VMS Apache 1.2 release, which is not" > exactly helpful to my situation. >r > Where's the 2.0 source code?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 07:44:37 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>% Subject: Re: end-search next sentencep0 Message-ID: <3FFA6765.44C5C7FD@sture.homeip.net>   _removespam_ wrote:r > 
 > vax allowedt >    search/ >       when >         next sentence  >       when >    end-searchf >   > dec / alpha will not allow it. >  > what is the work around?> > email   tutor_nospam_@cfl.rr.com (remove the _nospam_ first)   Sir,  ? You are seriously in need of learning how this newsgroup works./H It's about give and take, but you seem to be either a pure taker or have% a sever lack of communication skills.   D _I_ know that you are talking COBOL, but I'm not so sure that anyoneG else does. Please make sure in future that you at least tell folks what=G language you are using, and also which version of VMS and the compiler.    --  A PS I seriously suggest that you get yourself a suitably qualified G consultant to help you with your migration. You are clearly out of yours depth.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jan 2004 11:05:11 -0800n. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)5 Subject: Re: Floating point arithmetic support in DCLi= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0401051105.5d6cff27@posting.google.com>s  v koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<8gHq09g9qRdp@eisner.encompasserve.org>...p > In article <b096a4ee.0312301517.74d164da@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > > I > > OK, but if one does want to stay with the 4-char way, how about ELIF?i( > > That reads closely enough to ELSEIF. > >  > A >    See earlier post.  DCL is based on English, not eunichs-ish.     E WARNING: This post is rated UL: It contains uppercase letters. Reader- discretion is advised.   Bob,  F I included the proviso "if one does want to stay with the 4-char way". Obviously, you don't. OK.r  C Another possiblity: Since acronyms of English are acceptable (e.g.,bB EOD, EOJ, TFF, DSR, ...) how about EI? That's *IF YOU WANT TO STAY WITH THE 4-CHAR WAY*.h  D Otherwise, ELSEIF is fine, but it is still not english. "ELSE IF" isE English. :-) OTOH, we do have GOTO, so based on that, ELSEIF is fine.I     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:35:38 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)H Subject: Re: influencing the order in which page and swap files are used$ Message-ID: <btcsc9$usk$3@online.de>  E > >Actually I'm not rich, and have bought very little of my hobbyist  L > >equipment.  I picked up a few EZ32-VW disks for free, which I think will K > >work in a BA356 box, so why not?  These have 256 MB, which is more than lL > >the physical memory in any of my machines.  The advantages are a) that I G > >already have the solid-state disk and b) that I can use it with any e? > >system, whereas if I buy more memory it is tied to that box.f > K > Sounds reasonable to me.  But be aware you're using a tank as a tractor. -E > Solid-state disks have to be non-volatile, which means they're more J > expensive than regular RAM of the same speed.  (FLASH, maybe?)  Also the6 > SCSI bus will probably have higher latency than RAM.  E Right---real memory would be better, but my point is that the SSD is -I much faster than a conventional disk, so fast that, as you say, the SCSI   adapter will be the bottleneck.P  H For a couple of reasons, I plan on moving some conventional disks on theE SCSI bus which would have the SSDs to other machines in the cluster. nF (All disks are MSCP served and mounted by all nodes in the cluster.)  B Presumably this will cut down on traffic on that SCSI bus without F increasing the network traffic (since the disks are members of shadow G sets and thus the commands to tell the other host node to write to the 0* disk or whatever already take place now)).   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 05:48:41 GMTo From: dittman@dittman.netmH Subject: Re: influencing the order in which page and swap files are used2 Message-ID: <Z_rKb.29$Dt4.23@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>  Q Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply <helbig@astro.multiclothesvax.de> wrote: G > Right---real memory would be better, but my point is that the SSD is  K > much faster than a conventional disk, so fast that, as you say, the SCSI o! > adapter will be the bottleneck.s  F I have an EZ711 (1GB UW SSD) on an HSG80-based SAN.  I copied over theG VMS V7.3-2 installation CD, booted a DS10 from the EZ711, and installedeG to a RAID set on the HSG80.  That was the fastest installation of VMS Ie have ever done.o  G I think that if you have SS disks sitting around, you might as well use  them where you can.s --   Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.netn   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:00:43 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>-2 Subject: Re: Interested in learning about OpenVMS.0 Message-ID: <5_6dnakoqfNQi2eiRVn-uQ@comcast.com>   Mike,n  C I've added your book to the bibliography; that's the first time in uG several years that I've updated it.  I stopped following the newsgroup iF about four years ago due to the high noise level; it consumed far too ! much of my time.  It still does!!t  H The rest of the information you provided is a little too slim to make a I decent entry. I need the names of all the authors, as they appear on the sG title page, the exact title, the publisher, and the publication date.  QG If ISBN numbers or "order numbers" are available I'll include those as n well.B  F Amazon doesn't list the Hoffman-Miller-Baldwin book yet.  I found the G details on the Winston book and Miller's "Getting Started with OpenVMS <* System Management" and added them as well.   Mike Duffy wrote:8  7 > > -----Original Message----- From: Richard B. GilbertoD > > [mailto:rgilbert88@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004@ > > 8:23 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com Subject: Re: Interested in > > learning about OpenVMS.n > >w > >C > >lD > > Any of the introductory texts listed here should help. I suspectD > > that most of them are out of print. You can probably find one or' > > more in Amazon's used book service.' > >sG > > This bibliography is based on postings to the Info-VAX mailing listo> > > by Professor David D. Miller, Arne Vajhoj and others, withA > > additions, corrections, and formatting by Richard B. Gilbert.  > >dF > > Some books may appear in more than one category. Some books may be > > out of print.o > >a, > > Introduction to VAX/VMS - for new users. > > D > > Bynon, David W. and Shannon, Terry C. "Introduction to VAX/VMS".F > > Cardinal Business Media Peters, James, F. III. and Holmay, Patrick2 > > J. "The VMS User's Guide". Digital Press, 1990 > >O" > > [Remaining entries deleted...] >s >  >  Richard,i > F >  That's a pretty complete list you have there. Thanks for taking theB >  time to maintain and post it. Please note there are a couple of >  updates to make:t >,C >  Duffy, Michael D. "Getting Started with OpenVMS". Digital Press,v' >  2002, ~300 pages. ISBN 1-55558-279-6A >oA >  Also note that David Miller and Steve Hoffman have updated thei< >  Baldwin "OpenVMS System Management Guide". It's just out. >  1-55558-243-5 >d< >  Miller's "Getting Started with OpenVMS System Management"? >  (1-55558-281-8) seems to be a subset of the updated Baldwin.1 >)C >  And don't forget Winston's "OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD".l >  1-55558-264-8.g >  >  -Mike Duffy >t   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:57:30 GMTt( From: "konabear" <maurert@ameritech.net>/ Subject: Re: Is VMS 7.1-2 as stable as 7.1-1H2? A Message-ID: <eCoKb.21158$P%1.20356110@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>a   Bob,  K So if I understand, you need 7.1-2 for to support hardware.  Your desire tolD stay at 7.1-* is to avoid the fees for upgrading 3rd party products.  J If you must get the new faster boxes in place, and the budget demands thatH you not upgrade the 3rd party software, then stability isn't really your	 question.   I Generally there are reasons to argue that 7.1-2 with ECOs applied will be)K more stable than older versions of 7.1-*.   However once you get there with I your (new or old) )specific hardware configuration, your set of installed L ECOs, your application software and your specific load, I can't promise thatK your experience with 7.1-2 will prove more or less stable than your currentnJ hardware and software version.  Further if you get to the new hardware andJ 7.1-2 and it proves less than stable, I don't have much of any way to helpL you unless there is an ECO you haven't installed that addresses the problem.  K The advantage your current configuration has is that it is the same as it'sn( been and what it has been is rock solid.  L My advise to you is either lock down the current configuration, hardware andL software, or upgrade both to supported versions.   Are you likely to succeedI if you upgrade the software part way and then the hardware, yes probably.t! Would I bet a business on it? NO.   I If you can, keep the old gear in case your forced to back out the version4 and therefore the hardware.n     Todd  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagei6 news:d7791aa1.0312291747.f8d5b3b@posting.google.com...0 > hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message0 news:<G0ZHb.11267$x91.11212@news.cpqcorp.net>...@ > > In article <d7791aa1.0312231011.3e1b9ac@posting.google.com>,* bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:A > > :anyone with lengthy 7.1-2 use have any issues with anything,a > > :especially shadowing? > > G > >   V7.1-2 has various improvements over V7.1-1H1, and is effectivelyvE > >   a roll-up of all patches for V7.1, V7.1-1H1, and V7.1-1H2.  The H > >   release also serves as a baseline for newer ECOs, and particularlyF > >   for kits that are not available on V7.1, V7.1-1H1, and V7.1-1H2. > >aH > >   V7.1-2 is, however, ancient and long since exited both the CurrentG > >   Version Support and the Prior Version Support (PVS) status.  (For@E > >   current PVS information, status and plans, please see the FAQ.)s > >hI > >   If you are particularly interested in shadowing, it would be betterbJ > >   to stay somewhat more current as this will provide you access to theL > >   most recent software and the most recent updates -- as a general rule,9 > >   we don't back-port patches to unsupported releases.s > >aK > >   In my experience, V7.1-2 and V7.2-2 and V7.3-1 are all stable -- I've I > >   run all three releases over long periods.  (YMMV, quite obviously.)  > >rH > >   V7.2-2 would be the obvious trailing-edge :-) upgrade path.  (ThatI > >   in light of your proclivity for older releases, and not intended ton4 > >   reflect upon the quality of V7.3-1 or V7.3-2.) > >eH > >   As is usual for these questions, there can be no certain answer --H > >   each installation is different, and each customer installation canC > >   involve different areas of OpenVMS and different products andm	 different K > >   configurations.  And of course, you will want to download and installoI > >   the mandatory ECO kits -- regardless of the target OpenVMS version.  > >s* > >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- 6 > >     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ --  www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqs. > >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion ---------------------------bI > >         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com  >.E > we are still flying on alphaserver 800s and PWS433,500 and 600s ...ID > we will however start upgrading to DS10s and DS20Es and don't wantA > to pay certain vendors upgrade fees for some software we run indA > order to go to 7.2 or 7.3 (i.e. synergy), so this would save us B > a lot of money and not have to pay upgrade fees until itanium isG > stable ... 7.1-1H2 has run flawless for 5 years now and that includeshE > scsi clusters, so if 7.1-2 runs just as great then we are set untileG > itanium ... OpenVMS is sure a money saver!  I guarantee our TCO kicksi > everyone elses butt!  :) >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 00:26:22 -0500 / From: "Ramiro Rodriguez" <ergodicsum@yahoo.com>s Subject: new to vmsa6 Message-ID: <pan.2004.01.06.05.26.21.560636@yahoo.com>  H Hello I just read about VMS and I am curious about it. I head that it isJ adying out and it is only used on mainframe machines. Even so I would likeG to try it out. Is there any sort of emulator or some way to play aroundc, with it without actually buying a mainframe?   -RR    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 16:17:21 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com># Subject: Re: OpenMotif on ClosedVMSg) Message-ID: <3FF9D460.BAF92393@istop.com>a   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:I > The biggest limitations in rolling your own is the loss of VMS-specificg9 > modifications - like getting VMS filenames in widgets. u  N Which is why, if you guys are too busy with other stuff, and now that Motif isM going to open source, it would be nice if the VMS specific bits (such as fileoN selection) were to be made available in open source. It isn't as if folks from9 other operating systems could steal those technologies...d   > And usually you end 1 > up with a TCPIP only transport (using sockets).h >  The VMS utilities like SETe) > DISPLAY will not work without changes.    ; Aren't those just X features that are unrelated to motif ? a  N I realise that one would have to recompile the session manager stuff, and also) recompile the MWM window maneger as well.    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 02:16:24 +0000 (UTC)% From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) 3 Subject: OpenVMS/VAX Hobbyist license checksum woeso( Message-ID: <btd5po$1vt$1@pcls4.std.com>  E Does anyone know if there's something amok with the Montagar hobbyist.H license generator?  I've spent a little time today trying to OpenVMS 7.3E installed on a VAX 4000/100 of mine.  When I register the license, itb fails with:   ;   %LICENSE-F-BADCHK, checksum does not validate for VAX-VMSn  <   Please review all entered PAK data, including the checksum  C I've very carefully entered in all the provided data at the promptsdC provided during the installation.  I also tried generating a second=D license, but that doesn't keep me from getting the checksum failure.A I was wondering if anyone else had noticed anything similar with / recently generated licenses.   TIA for any suggestions.   -brian.= -- =F --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----K Has anyone else had any bad experiences with Mr. Vader or his Empire? -- K.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:20:29 -06000@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS/VAX Hobbyist license checksum woesD6 Message-ID: <3FFA297D.A836DECB@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Brian Chase wrote: > G > Does anyone know if there's something amok with the Montagar hobbyist J > license generator?  I've spent a little time today trying to OpenVMS 7.3G > installed on a VAX 4000/100 of mine.  When I register the license, ita
 > fails with:  > = >   %LICENSE-F-BADCHK, checksum does not validate for VAX-VMS  > > >   Please review all entered PAK data, including the checksum > E > I've very carefully entered in all the provided data at the promptsmE > provided during the installation.  I also tried generating a secondyF > license, but that doesn't keep me from getting the checksum failure.B > I was wondering if anyone else had noticed anything similar with > recently generated licenses. >  > TIA for any suggestions.  D I believe the fix is to not register the license during the install,# rather later from the command line.h   -- t David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 06:40:46 +0000 (UTC)% From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase)v7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS/VAX Hobbyist license checksum woes ( Message-ID: <btdl9e$nil$1@pcls4.std.com>  6 In article <3FFA297D.A836DECB@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>,? David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote:u > Brian Chase wrote:  I > > Does anyone know if there's something amok with the Montagar hobbyistsL > > license generator?  I've spent a little time today trying to OpenVMS 7.3I > > installed on a VAX 4000/100 of mine.  When I register the license, it  > > fails with:v > > ? > >   %LICENSE-F-BADCHK, checksum does not validate for VAX-VMSa > > @ > >   Please review all entered PAK data, including the checksum > > G > > I've very carefully entered in all the provided data at the promptseG > > provided during the installation.  I also tried generating a second H > > license, but that doesn't keep me from getting the checksum failure.D > > I was wondering if anyone else had noticed anything similar with  > > recently generated licenses. > >  > > TIA for any suggestions. > F > I believe the fix is to not register the license during the install,% > rather later from the command line.   I Thanks, that helped.  The licensing steps outlined in the Montagar site's.> documentation don't work for OpenVMS/VAX 7.3 (see page 23 of):  .   http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/vax_kit.pdf  G Even after the install, I tried running @SYS$UPDATE:VMSLICENSE from the I command line, but that didn't work.  What did work was just typing in the H whole "LICENSE REGISTER VAX-VMS" blob from my license file as a command,! loading it, and then enabling it.-   -brian.a -- AF --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----+ Font-o-Meter!      Proportional  Monospacede'                                       ^    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jan 2004 15:39:38 -0600e- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)c Subject: Re: password questionso3 Message-ID: <aGvekSH2fu7I@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  d In article <c4kKb.192664$b01.4376998@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> writes:  G >     1. Can we FORCE alphanumeric passwords?  I know that alphanumerictM > passwords are supported, but under VMS can we FORCE the use of at least one 5 > alpha character and at least one numeric character?h  J Yes.  Use the documented site-specific password policy interface describedI at file:///VMSDOC0731/731final/6346/6346pro.HTM#a654440707 .  The example . SYS$EXAMPLES:VMS$PASSWORD_POLICY*.* shows how.  M >     2.   Is there anyway to set password history so that it only tracks thepJ > last 5 passwords?  I know how to change the time the password history is9 > kept, but I don't believe we can force a numeric limit.8  C file:///VMSDOC0731/731final/6346/6346pro.HTM#a654439968 has a table 4 describing logical name SYS$PASSWORD_HISTORY_LIMIT .  L > Our security administration is trying to define a set of rules to span allH > of our Operating Systems (and we probably have several of everything).  B Typical mistakes made by people who try to do that is to drag downB security for individual cases in a search for commonality.  Goal 2C above, for instance, is perfectly safe on VMS since malicious users @ who try to overflow the limit of 5 password history entries willA discover they are forced into using Generated Passwords.  HowevereB a lesser operating system might actually accept their old passwordA after 5 bogus ones, resulting in an effect of no password change.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 20:48:08 GMTn# From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com>e Subject: password questionsu> Message-ID: <c4kKb.192664$b01.4376998@twister.tampabay.rr.com>  G I don't think we can do this.  I have searched and I have not found anyrL statement that we can do this, but if there is something that says we can, I couldn't find it.c   Under OPENVMS 7.3-1,  E     1. Can we FORCE alphanumeric passwords?  I know that alphanumericgK passwords are supported, but under VMS can we FORCE the use of at least one 3 alpha character and at least one numeric character?u  K     2.   Is there anyway to set password history so that it only tracks themH last 5 passwords?  I know how to change the time the password history is7 kept, but I don't believe we can force a numeric limit.e  J Our security administration is trying to define a set of rules to span allF of our Operating Systems (and we probably have several of everything).   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 17:11:31 -0500=& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> Subject: Re: password questions 8 Message-ID: <2enjvv45e5d0vq1mvv35bftoo7utskbve8@4ax.com>  F On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 20:48:08 GMT, "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote:   >Under OPENVMS 7.3-1,= >=F >    1. Can we FORCE alphanumeric passwords?  I know that alphanumericL >passwords are supported, but under VMS can we FORCE the use of at least one4 >alpha character and at least one numeric character?  L Only by writing a "password policy module" of your own devising, or find one' which does this. There is an example in   ? 	http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware40/password_policy/   K written in Fortran. It doesn't do what you ask, but might serve as a model.c  L >    2.   Is there anyway to set password history so that it only tracks theI >last 5 passwords?  I know how to change the time the password history isi8 >kept, but I don't believe we can force a numeric limit.  M The "depth" of the password history is controlled by the system logical namesNK SYS$PASSWORD_HISTORY_LIMIT and SYS$PASSWORD_HISTORY_LIFETIME logical names,IN which default to 60 and 365, respectively. I suppose you could do what you askO by setting the limit to 5 and the lifetime to something like 5*PWDLIFETIME fromtJ SYSUAF. But, I'm not sure of the implications if someone were to "rapidly"6 change their password to try to circumvent the scheme.I -------------------------------------------------------------------------tI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comfI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)yI -------------------------------------------------------------------------v   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jan 2004 16:46:01 -0600j- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)y Subject: Re: password questions 3 Message-ID: <Km++4rstFwxE@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  a In article <2enjvv45e5d0vq1mvv35bftoo7utskbve8@4ax.com>, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> writes:   O > The "depth" of the password history is controlled by the system logical namesyM > SYS$PASSWORD_HISTORY_LIMIT and SYS$PASSWORD_HISTORY_LIFETIME logical names,bP > which default to 60 and 365, respectively. I suppose you could do what you askQ > by setting the limit to 5 and the lifetime to something like 5*PWDLIFETIME fromtL > SYSUAF. But, I'm not sure of the implications if someone were to "rapidly"8 > change their password to try to circumvent the scheme.  I When they exceed the cache size, they are forced into password generation>D mode, which for most guarantees they will never try _that_ again :-)  H The information discussed in this thread has all been in response to theD original poster's specification of V7.3-1, which is the same on VAX.  F If one were to restrict one's problem space to V7.3-2 and beyond, withE no VAX requirement, one can accomplish many more local customizationseG (with significantly greater programming difficulty) by writing a customt ACME Agent.f   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:20:11 GMTa4 From: Forrest Kenney <forrest_dot_kenney@hp_dot.com>, Subject: Re: Peeking in to the serial buffer* Message-ID: <3FF9B9AD.82EF69CF@hp_dot.com>   JF Mezei wrote:n  S > Forrest Kenney,  OpenVMS terminal driver historian and sometime maintainer wrote:   > > have talked about IO$M_TIMEDJ > > to time the I/O.  What is poorly understood is that the timeout is not > > time from when the read wass7 > > started but it a time from last character received.= >=J > Mr Kenney, if you were a female, I'd send you big kisses for the timeoutM > functionality of the terminal driver interface. This is one of the smartestw4 > features allowing really clean programming on VMS. >=  K Wish I could take credit for that but it predates my working on the driver.g   > O > Do you know offhand why this was not implemented in the TCPIP QIO interface ?tJ > (even if the timeout logic would have been slightly different due to the > packet nature of TCP). >n  4    No clue why they did what they did or did not do.   >sP > Also, in the terminal driver, If I have DMA enabled on the terminal port, doesM > each character received  still generate an interrupt so that the driver cangK > update its timeout ? Is there a difference in performance if you enable aj > timer or not ?  N There is a low cost for this when a character is being processed by the driverQ it adds the current value of exe$gl_abstim to the timeout and saves it away,  The E system once a second ticker takes care of handeling the timeout work.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 23:50:59 +0100d From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>, Subject: Re: Peeking in to the serial buffer2 Message-ID: <btcqc2$9uu$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Forrest Kenney wrote:t >  > JF Mezei wrote:r >  > S >>Forrest Kenney,  OpenVMS terminal driver historian and sometime maintainer wrote:  >> >>>have talked about IO$M_TIMEDtI >>>to time the I/O.  What is poorly understood is that the timeout is not  >>>time from when the read was6 >>>started but it a time from last character received. >>J >>Mr Kenney, if you were a female, I'd send you big kisses for the timeoutM >>functionality of the terminal driver interface. This is one of the smartestO4 >>features allowing really clean programming on VMS. >> >  > M > Wish I could take credit for that but it predates my working on the driver.z  L It was already there in the RSX-11 terminal drivers. I used it in assembler O program that took calls from journalists using 'portable' word processors with 'M 300 and 1200 baud modems. That was nice, checking the status registers of 16  ; port DZ-11 interfaces for ring-signals, carrier-detect etc.a   >  > O >>Do you know offhand why this was not implemented in the TCPIP QIO interface ? J >>(even if the timeout logic would have been slightly different due to the >>packet nature of TCP). >> >  > 6 >    No clue why they did what they did or did not do. >  > P >>Also, in the terminal driver, If I have DMA enabled on the terminal port, doesM >>each character received  still generate an interrupt so that the driver can K >>update its timeout ? Is there a difference in performance if you enable ak >>timer or not ? >  > P > There is a low cost for this when a character is being processed by the driverS > it adds the current value of exe$gl_abstim to the timeout and saves it away,  The-G > system once a second ticker takes care of handeling the timeout work.m >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:26:08 GMT ) From: "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com> ! Subject: Re: Problem with CSWS V2I3 Message-ID: <QDkKb.11610$fX7.9386@news.cpqcorp.net>   K That message is output from CSWS 1.3's APACHE$CONFIG.COM procedure. Did youl upgrade from CSWS 1.3 to 2.0?   
 Rick Barry OpenVMS System Software Groupi Hewlett-Packard Companyo
 Nashua, NH  C "Tom Simpson" <thomas.simpson1@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message ) news:LN4Hb.143681$8y1.426900@attbi_s52...eH > I have installed the latest release of the CSWS (v2.0) software and amH > getting an error attempting to run the configuration utility after the< > installation.   The installation goes smoothly, no errors. >eF > The next step (I thought) was to run the APACHE$CONFIG program.  I'm takingK > all the default answers for the configuration questions and everything isL, > fine until I get to the following section: > .dF > Setting ownership on files.  This could take a minute or two.  . . . >gF > ERROR: Missing file APACHE$SHARE:[000000]APACHE$HTTPD_SHR.EXE_ALPHA: Invalid?% > installation %SYSTEM-F-ABORT, abort  >nI > I don't see the file they are looking for.  As a matter of fact I don'tr seenK > any files with a "_ALPHA" appended to the file extension.  Looking at thehI > procedure, this string is either _VAX or _ALPHA depending on the systemt > type.m >/K > I'm running on an Alphaserver 1000A w/ VMS 7.3-1 with the latest patches.b >hL > It looks to me like the file names have changed with the latest release ofI > CSWS, but the configuration program was not updated to match...  Anyones else4 > having this problem or am I doing something wrong? >h > Check for the missing file:  >.3 > SYSMGR1K>dir APACHE$SHARE:[000000]APACHE$HTTPD*.*- > ! > Directory APACHE$SHARE:[000000]- >-7 > APACHE$HTTPD.EXE;1        23  10-OCT-2003 15:14:11.40e > APACHE$HTTPD_SHR.EXE;17 >                          842  10-OCT-2003 15:14:10.20j" > APACHE$HTTPD_SHR.EXE_ALPHA_OLD;1 >s
 > Regards, > Tom7 >F >S   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 23:31:32 GMTe8 From: "Tom Simpson" <thomas.simpson1@nospam.comcast.net>! Subject: Re: Problem with CSWS V2v- Message-ID: <otmKb.70786$xX.458820@attbi_s02>x  ! Yes.  I upgraded CSWS 1.3 to 2.0.y   Regards, Tom$  4 "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com> wrote in message- news:QDkKb.11610$fX7.9386@news.cpqcorp.net...gI > That message is output from CSWS 1.3's APACHE$CONFIG.COM procedure. Did  yous > upgrade from CSWS 1.3 to 2.0?= >= > Rick Barry > OpenVMS System Software Group= > Hewlett-Packard Company  > Nashua, NH >OE > "Tom Simpson" <thomas.simpson1@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in messageC+ > news:LN4Hb.143681$8y1.426900@attbi_s52... J > > I have installed the latest release of the CSWS (v2.0) software and amJ > > getting an error attempting to run the configuration utility after the> > > installation.   The installation goes smoothly, no errors. > >:H > > The next step (I thought) was to run the APACHE$CONFIG program.  I'm > takingJ > > all the default answers for the configuration questions and everything is. > > fine until I get to the following section: > > .RH > > Setting ownership on files.  This could take a minute or two.  . . . > >EH > > ERROR: Missing file APACHE$SHARE:[000000]APACHE$HTTPD_SHR.EXE_ALPHA:	 > Invalido' > > installation %SYSTEM-F-ABORT, aborte > >nK > > I don't see the file they are looking for.  As a matter of fact I don'tg > seesI > > any files with a "_ALPHA" appended to the file extension.  Looking at  the K > > procedure, this string is either _VAX or _ALPHA depending on the systemi	 > > type.  > >eD > > I'm running on an Alphaserver 1000A w/ VMS 7.3-1 with the latest patches. > >CK > > It looks to me like the file names have changed with the latest releaset ofK > > CSWS, but the configuration program was not updated to match...  Anyone  > else6 > > having this problem or am I doing something wrong? > >a > > Check for the missing file:- > >-5 > > SYSMGR1K>dir APACHE$SHARE:[000000]APACHE$HTTPD*.*c > >r# > > Directory APACHE$SHARE:[000000]R > >W9 > > APACHE$HTTPD.EXE;1        23  10-OCT-2003 15:14:11.403 > > APACHE$HTTPD_SHR.EXE;19 > >                          842  10-OCT-2003 15:14:10.20r$ > > APACHE$HTTPD_SHR.EXE_ALPHA_OLD;1 > >L > > Regards, > > Toma > >c > >d >v >i   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:54:39 GMT 4 From: Forrest Kenney <forrest_dot_kenney@hp_dot.com>/ Subject: Re: scrambled terminal output on OPA0:k* Message-ID: <3FF9B3B1.A3A8F084@hp_dot.com>  N That is expected the consoles on the VAX systems were hard wired in most casesR to 9600 baud.  Some of the boxes had a rotary switch that would let you change theQ speed.  When the console port driver was written for a platform the driver writer < was free to stick pretty much any speed thy wanted in there.  L For the IA64 systems the driver makes an attempt to determine what speed the4 hardware is running at and report the correct value.     Forrestr   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 15:58:23 -0500n* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>/ Subject: Re: scrambled terminal output on OPA0:e) Message-ID: <3FF9CFEE.3145F94D@istop.com>o   Bob Koehler wrote:J >    OK, now that's freaking weird.  Why VMS thinks it's 300 baud when its0 >    actually "working" at 9600 is interesting.   K That is normal behaviour for OPA0:. Its speed is set by the switches or via1N console prompt >>>, and I suspect VVMS has no access to that information. WhatF is even more fun is that you can SET TERM/SPEED=38400 on OPA0: and you+ continue to run along happily at 9600 baud.m  Y This is similar to the fake speed that is assigned with LAT DECNET or TELNET connections.u   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jan 2004 13:08:02 -0800c% From: whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips)c/ Subject: Re: scrambled terminal output on OPA0:l< Message-ID: <af0dc2ea.0401051308.873e295@posting.google.com>  | helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote in message news:<bssr5k$ab4$2@online.de>...C > OK, I'm in the machine room now so here is some more information.r > I > The system is a VAXstation 4000/60 running VMS 7.3.  The terminal is a n@ > VT320 connected via an MMJ cable to the serial console of the J > VAXstation.  S3 switch is up (i.e. serial console).  The terminal shows 
 > up as OPA0.r > 3 > When I log in at the console, SHOW TERMINAL says:g > B > Terminal: _OPA0:      Device_Type: VT300_Series  Owner: HELBIG-1@ >                                               Username: HELBIG > D >    Input:     300     LFfill:  0      Width:  80      Parity: None8 >    Output:    300     CRfill:  0      Page:   24       >  > Terminal Characteristics:iG >    Interactive        Echo               Type_ahead         No EscapeeA >    Hostsync           TTsync             Lowercase          TabwF >    Wrap               Scope              No Remote          EightbitE >    Broadcast          No Readsync        No Form            FulldupeG >    No Modem           No Local_echo      No Autobaud        No HanguprG >    No Brdcstmbx       No DMA             No Altypeahd       Set_speed I >    No Commsync        Line Editing       Insert editing     No FallbackAH >    No Dialup          No Secure server   No Disconnect      No PasthruJ >    No Syspassword     No SIXEL Graphics  Soft Characters    Printer portK >    Numeric Keypad     ANSI_CRT           No Regis           No Block_modeiF >    Advanced_video     Edit_mode          DEC_CRT            DEC_CRT2K >    DEC_CRT3           No DEC_CRT4        No DEC_CRT5        No Ansi_Colors >    VMS Style Input >   B This is normal, as has been mentioned in a previous response; yourD console connection is ~special~ and runs at 9600, period, regardlessE of what show/term says. And, the show/term speed means nothing for an:
 LTA terminal:     3 > After doing SET HOST/LAT to the same node, I get:e > B > Terminal: _LTA5114:   Device_Type: VT300_Series  Owner: HELBIG-2@ >                                               Username: HELBIG* > LAT Server/Port: ELIJAH/UIC_000100000001 > D >    Input:    9600     LFfill:  0      Width:  80      Parity: None8 >    Output:   9600     CRfill:  0      Page:   24       >  > Terminal Characteristics:cG >    Interactive        Echo               Type_ahead         No EscapenA >    Hostsync           TTsync             Lowercase          TabhF >    Wrap               Scope              No Remote          EightbitE >    Broadcast          No Readsync        No Form            FullduprD >    No Modem           No Local_echo      No Autobaud        HangupG >    No Brdcstmbx       No DMA             No Altypeahd       Set_speedeI >    No Commsync        Line Editing       Insert editing     No FallbacktH >    No Dialup          No Secure server   No Disconnect      No PasthruJ >    No Syspassword     No SIXEL Graphics  Soft Characters    Printer portK >    Numeric Keypad     ANSI_CRT           No Regis           No Block_modeIF >    Advanced_video     Edit_mode          DEC_CRT            DEC_CRT2K >    DEC_CRT3           No DEC_CRT4        No DEC_CRT5        No Ansi_Colord >    VMS Style Input > D > In other words, the only differences are that the terminal is now 4 > "Hangup" and the speed has moved from 300 to 9600.  F But you aren't looking at the same terminal. Do a SHOW/TERM OPA0: fromE the LAT connection and see if there are differences. My guess is that)F you have something setup wrong in the VT320 (like Data/Modem lines) orD the terminal is not working properly. When you open an LTA or RTA orE TNA or whatever, doesn't this in effect double your type ahead bufferdE space? So, your application or CLI is working with your LTA(,TNA,...)tB terminal which is connected to the OPA and that might be enough to compensate for your problem.  F Someone suggested swapping terminals. What happened when you did that?    DL Phillips   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:22:24 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)/ Subject: Re: scrambled terminal output on OPA0:a$ Message-ID: <btcrjg$usk$2@online.de>  < In article <af0dc2ea.0401051308.873e295@posting.google.com>,( whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) writes:   H > But you aren't looking at the same terminal. Do a SHOW/TERM OPA0: fromG > the LAT connection and see if there are differences. My guess is that H > you have something setup wrong in the VT320 (like Data/Modem lines) or( > the terminal is not working properly.   > The terminal has the same settings as another one which works.  H > Someone suggested swapping terminals. What happened when you did that?  C Didn't get around to it---will try again a week from Saturday.  (I hG rebooted the whole cluster after running AUTOGEN on all nodes and then  H noticed some bugs in my cluster-wide MOUNT procedure.  It's still under D development, but seems to work now (though the really tough test is  during a cluster reboot).    ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 23:18:45 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)/ Subject: Re: scrambled terminal output on OPA0:a$ Message-ID: <btcrcl$usk$1@online.de>  3 In article <4O5wnXCKBgoS@eisner.encompasserve.org>,a> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   y > In article <bssr5k$ab4$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:n > D > > Terminal: _OPA0:      Device_Type: VT300_Series  Owner: HELBIG-1B > >                                               Username: HELBIG > > F > >    Input:     300     LFfill:  0      Width:  80      Parity: None: > >    Output:    300     CRfill:  0      Page:   24       > D > > The setup screen of the VT320 has 9600 for receive and transmit. > J >    OK, now that's freaking weird.  Why VMS thinks it's 300 baud when itsH >    actually "working" at 9600 is interesting.  If the console port wasH >    really 300 baud while the terminal is 9600 I would expect it not to >    work at all.r > I >    Have you verified what the console is really set to?  (I forget whatrF >    model you're using, it should either be a hardware or console RAM >    setting.)  G This is a VAXstation 4000/60.  I don't think there's any switch to set  F it, so I'll have to have a look next time I get to the console prompt.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 15:58:02 -0500i* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>/ Subject: Re: scrambled terminal output on OPA0:h) Message-ID: <3FF9CFDA.4A67C3B4@istop.com>t   Bob Koehler wrote:J >    OK, now that's freaking weird.  Why VMS thinks it's 300 baud when its0 >    actually "working" at 9600 is interesting.   K That is normal behaviour for OPA0:. Its speed is set by the switches or viaiN console prompt >>>, and I suspect VVMS has no access to that information. WhatF is even more fun is that you can SET TERM/SPEED=38400 on OPA0: and you+ continue to run along happily at 9600 baud.4  Y This is similar to the fake speed that is assigned with LAT DECNET or TELNET connections.7   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:47:13 GMT.) From: "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com>oA Subject: Re: Secure Web Server Version 2.0 available for download 3 Message-ID: <5bjKb.11590$LV7.1309@news.cpqcorp.net>   L The official name is actually "Secure Web Server". The "HP" at the beginningI is the corporate standard for referring to a product the first time it isa
 mentioned.  H Apache Software Foundation licensing terms prohibited us from calling itG "Apache" initially because we shipped it with SSL built-in. At the timeeF (Apache 1.3.12 timeframe), SSL was a separate option due to the cryptoF export rules in place at the time. In addition, our code base includedE changes to accommodate VMS and were not reflected in the official ASF 	 codebase.'  
 Rick Barry OpenVMS System Software Groupl Hewlett-Packard Companyl
 Nashua, NH  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messaget# news:3FE360C5.AA17110A@istop.com...t > Sue Skonetski wrote: > >oA > > Announcing HP Secure Web Server Version 2.0 for OpenVMS Alphav >tI > Sue, Just a comment on the name. (I know my comments won't change much,u but if > nobody ever commented... >'. > Why not just call it VMS Secure Web Server ? >aF > The constant name changes is really causing confusion. Heck, I would0 > personally just call it VMS Apache Web Server. >AE > The name VMS management have give it make it look very proprietary.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 02:04:26 GMTu> From: Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com>, Subject: Re: Toasted AS2100 ECU floppy - VMS< Message-ID: <KIoKb.5073$5s5.4464@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>   Colin Butcher wrote:  
 > Michael, > F > I did try to send you a copy. However, your mail server returned theH > following (email adresses removed). Now, given that One & One InternetI > aren't blacklisted as far as I know (certainly I've never had a problem N > sending mail through them before) and I'm not a spammer, then it looks to meL > as if the problem is at your end. I also recommed that you change your 550K > "You have been rejected. Get a life." message to something less likely toHG > get peoples backs up when you send it out incorrectly - especially iftN > they're trying to help you. If you've managed to automatically send an abuseE > reports to abuse@kunderserver.de then you need to retract that too.e  & Thanks to all who sent me a zipfile...  I Hmmmm... looks like it is on an RBL somewhere... :)  oh, now I remember, uF I have a block on all 212.0.0.0/8 addresses... way too much spam from H there.... and the really nasty stuff too...  I guess it is a good thing H I read the headers/subjects using VMS MAIL before transferring it to my  desktop....   . Peter Langstoeger -- your site is inaccessible  4 ALPHA1>MAUSTIN>MAUSTIN]$ nslookup ftp.langstoeger.at" Server:  dns1.ksc2mo.sbcglobal.net Address:  151.164.8.201a  = *** dns1.ksc2mo.sbcglobal.net can't find ftp.langstoeger.at: M Non-existent host/d  omain 4 ALPHA1>MAUSTIN>MAUSTIN]$ nslookup www.langstoeger.at" Server:  dns1.ksc2mo.sbcglobal.net Address:  151.164.8.201e  = *** dns1.ksc2mo.sbcglobal.net can't find www.langstoeger.at: o Non-existent host/domain  : ALPHA1>MAUSTIN>MAUSTIN]$ nslookup -query=mx langstoeger.at" Server:  dns1.ksc2mo.sbcglobal.net Address:  151.164.8.201c  F *** dns1.ksc2mo.sbcglobal.net can't find langstoeger.at: Non-existent  host/domaint  9 ALPHA1>MAUSTIN>MAUSTIN]$ nslookup -query=mx langstoger.at " Server:  dns1.ksc2mo.sbcglobal.net Address:  151.164.8.201i  E *** dns1.ksc2mo.sbcglobal.net can't find langstoger.at: Non-existent - host/domain-    From your message header:   From - Mon Jan 05 07:29:40 2004' X-UIDL: maustin_05-JAN-2004_05:45:44.13- X-Mozilla-Status: 1011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000-! Return-Path: peter@langstoeger.at-E Received: from chello062178035154.12.11.vie.surfer.at (62.178.35.154)S@ 	 by alpha1.firstdbasource.com (V5.3-18E, OpenVMS V7.3-1 Alpha);% 	Mon, 5 Jan 2004 05:45:41 -0600 (CST)I6 Received: by mechta.langstoger.at (MX V5.3 Vn9h) id 1;)            Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:40:57 +0100g$ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:40:56 +01006 From: Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER <peter@langstoeger.at> Reply-To: peter@langstoeger.at To: MAUSTIN@FIRSTDBASOURCE.COM CC: peter@langstoeger.at6 Message-ID: <00A2B711.A087C614.1@mechta.langstoger.at>, Subject: Re: Toasted AS2100 ECU floppy - VMS     Michael Austin   >  >  > J > This message was created automatically by mail delivery software (Exim).   <stuff snipped>t   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:26:29 GMT:9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>m* Subject: Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome3 Message-ID: <p%hKb.11575$3O7.1493@news.cpqcorp.net>r  J The hardware (PA and IPF) provides hard partitions, and is OS transparent.  L HP-UX provides soft partitions (vPars) on PA, and this will be also providedI on IPF (I don't know if they have published their schedule).  On IPF thisy/ requires some additional firmware capabilities.-  H OpenVMS provides software partitions (Galaxy) on Alpha.  We also plan toA migrate this capability to IPF using the same underlying firmwaregF capabilities that HP-UX will use for fPars.  The schedule and externalF coimmunication/commitment for this has not yet been published, but the preliminary work is underway.f  J Beyond hard and soft partitions are virtual partitions...  not sure I likeF the idea myself, but there is certainly a lot of industry and academic interest in them.     K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>i; wrote in message news:btbdpr$20r$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...o > Greg Cagle wrote:s, > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > >s > >> Greg Cagle wrote: > >>. > >>> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > >>>eB > >>>> Sometime in the future nPartitions which are currently hard@ > >>>> will become soft, this appears currently to be technology& > >>>> that is only planned for HP-UX. > >>>g > >>>e > >>>  > >>>-B > >>> Actually vPartitions (soft partitions) have been in place onB > >>> HP-UX for some time - a few years IRRC. You are correct thatE > >>> they are HP-UX only at this time. nPartitions (hard partitions)  > >>> are not OS-specific. > >>>n > >>A > >> That isn't what the Integrity White paper says, it indicatesl= > >> that vPartitions will be supported in a release of HP-UX 6 > >> after 11i 2 which is the current Itanium version. > >>< > >> It is quite possible that vPartitions do exist on HP-UX > >> HP-PA.e > >  > >e@ > > It wasn't clear you were only referring to Integrity systems > > in your comments.a > >h >r; > As far as I know there is no intention to port OpenVMS toa; > HP-PA (how do rumours get started) hence the reference tog9 > Integrity SuperDome's rather than the SuperDome Classicn' > or whatever the HP-PA Dome is called.g >r	 > Regardse > Andrew Harrisonu >s   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:40:22 GMTr9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>n* Subject: Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome3 Message-ID: <qciKb.11576$UP7.3209@news.cpqcorp.net>0  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>.; wrote in message news:btbdvq$25f$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...D > >s >-0 > vPars are not at all like Galaxy, think again. >a2 > Apart from anything else vPars are based on Cell1 > boards while Galaxies have a finer granularity.  >e= > vPars also have nothing like the Galaxy memory architecture & > nor do they currenty run on Itanium. >I  F Actually this isn't quite true either.  It is true that vPars does notH contain the shared memory construct that OpenVMS provides -- at least inJ it's current incarnation.  Both Galaxy and vPars are solutions to the sameK problem that are very similar in approach.  The basic difference being thatrJ HP-UX created a low-level vPars manager to virtualize certain aspects, andK VMS placed this capability into firmware/OS interfaces.  The granularity ofiH each is dictated by capabilities of the hardware, and limitations of the	 firmware.v  < The IPF solution in fact may provide even finer granularity.  A As an aside, VMS (HP) just was granted the general patent on softJ partitioning.../  C MULTIPROCESSOR COMPUTER ARCHITECTURE WITH MULTIPLE OPERATING SYSTEMw5 INSTANCES AND SOFTWARE CONTROLLED RESOURCE ALLOCATION-   Patent Number: 6,647,508   Date of Patent: 11-11-2003  E       Inventors:  Zalewski; Stephen H. (Nashua, NH); Mason; Andrew H.hH (Hollis, NH); Jordan; Gregory H. (Hollis, NH); Noel; Karen L. (Pembroke,H NH); Kauffman; James R. (Nashua, NH); Harter, Jr.; Paul K. (Groton, MA);G Kleinsorge; Frederick G. (Amherst, NH); Shirron; Stephen F. (Acton, MA)nH       Assignee:  Hewlett-Packard Development Company, L.P. (Houston, TX)       Appl. No.:  095543       Filed:  June 10, 1998S   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 16:20:52 -0500,* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>* Subject: Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome) Message-ID: <3FF9D532.711D06AD@istop.com>e   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:J > OpenVMS provides software partitions (Galaxy) on Alpha.  We also plan toC > migrate this capability to IPF using the same underlying firmwaree. > capabilities that HP-UX will use for fPars.     A Would this mean that hardware features will limit VMS to the samenM functionality that HP-UX has ? Or would VMS still be able to gain competitove  advantage over HP-UX ?  N Also, will you guys be asked to coexist with HP-UX in the same superdome box ?F I would assume that this will help Stallard with his plans to move VMSL customer to HP-UX over time. As the customer migrates more and more VMS appsJ to HP-UX, he can then assign more and more CPUs to HP-UX and fewer to VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 20:16:11 +0100o* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>X Subject: Re: Well Andrew, "3" count them "3" security patches for VMS in five  years ...0 Message-ID: <3FF9C60B.15FDB91F@sture.homeip.net>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >o> > Hence the bogosity of using CERT to compare OpenVMS security > with other OS's security.  >   : Andrew, for security reasons I cannot tell you what I know   :-)-     --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jan 2004 19:30:37 GMTj, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)X Subject: Re: Well Andrew, "3" count them "3" security patches for VMS in five  years ...9 Message-ID: <btce0t$5ftn2$2@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>   0 In article <3FF9C60B.15FDB91F@sture.homeip.net>,- 	Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:u* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >>   >>? >> Hence the bogosity of using CERT to compare OpenVMS security  >> with other OS's security. >> o > < > Andrew, for security reasons I cannot tell you what I know >  >:-) >   E I could tell you what I know, but then I would have to kill you.  :-)    bill   -- rJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   H   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jan 2004 15:51:43 -0800O" From: mike9966@canada.com (Mike R)W Subject: Re: Well Andrew, "3" count them "3" security patches for VMS in five years ...e= Message-ID: <5fd7aa0b.0401051551.603f05e9@posting.google.com>   h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<F9xLCUP$xdPB@eisner.encompasserve.org>...d > In article <5fd7aa0b.0401050857.2c89ab03@posting.google.com>, mike9966@canada.com (Mike R) writes: > > Bob Ceculski wrote: : > >> one was for something we don't even use right now ...6 > >> decwindows ... the other two was for TCPware, one9 > >> being for smtp ... now where was slowaris cert countt6 > >> for the last five years ... 1000+ and catching up/ > >> to linux windoze garbage ... beat that ...8 > >  > > I > > This comparison seems a little unfair, seeing as VMS security patchesDI > > aren't marked as security patches in the ECO notes or even the sourcen > > code as a matter of policy.h > < > I don't know ECO notes, but I have figured out the secret. > C > When something comes labeled "Mandatory Security Patch" it is for, > security reasons.C > C > The security fixes I know are not labeled as such are those whichrC > are discovered internal to VMS Development where there is nothingc; > to indicate that any outsider has ever found the problem.   E exactly - internally discovered security problems are not labelled asrC such. Sun alerts customers to all security issues regardless of who F discovered them.  Therefore its a little unfair to play a numbers game, when one side isnt publishing the numbers...   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:36:20 +0100g" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>9 Subject: [OT] Top posting (was: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX)m4 Message-ID: <3ff9cb34$0$24050$626a54ce@news.free.fr>  M Larry, you perfectly know that 90% of the readers prefer top posting because 0Q they are interested to read the answer to the question, without having to scroll  F down the question they just read the click before to reach the answer.  # Also, your answer should have read:   
 --- start ---uG Guy said: "If you are interested in fieldtesting the new images send me ) your e-mail address. (do not reply here)""  8 So, please, Jerry, try to read a post before answering". --- end ---i   Happy New Year   D.   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  b > In article <ZufKb.105$s8.1113@news.on.tac.net>, "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca> writes: >  > <top posting corrected>s > = >>"Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@hp.com_remove_this> wrote in message / >>news:5TeKb.11529$fu7.9533@news.cpqcorp.net...y >  > ? >>>If you are interested in fieldtesting the new images send mep+ >>>your e-mail address. (do not reply here)t >  >  > <top posting corrected>O > $ >>yes I would be jabraga@flanagan.ca >  > C > Perhaps if people (two, so far) did not top-post, they would moreeB > carefully read Guy's gracious attempt to keep the newsgroup free
 > of clutter.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jan 2004 15:21:08 -0600n- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s= Subject: Re: [OT] Top posting (was: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX)-3 Message-ID: <V6dWIcRejQmw@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  Y In article <3ff9cb34$0$24050$626a54ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:oF > Larry, you perfectly know that 90% of the readers prefer top posting   I know no such thing.-  > But aside from the illogic of top-posting (compared to careful< trimming and inline posting), I do know that 90% of computer users prefer Microsoft:-)j   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 23:15:49 GMTr6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)= Subject: Re: [OT] Top posting (was: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX) 4 Message-ID: <FemKb.417433$dt3.413947@news.chello.at>  Y In article <3ff9cb34$0$24050$626a54ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:nN >Larry, you perfectly know that 90% of the readers prefer top posting because R >they are interested to read the answer to the question, without having to scroll G >down the question they just read the click before to reach the answer.   - 90% ? I do think the opposite. Who is right ?i! Don't tell it is M$ (Mega$hit)...x  ? 90% of the readers of detective novels read the last page firste, (to know who the bad guy is). Do you agree ?   -- _ Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERo% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 16:29:46 -0500e* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>= Subject: Re: [OT] Top posting (was: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX)y) Message-ID: <3FF9D748.D720C45C@istop.com>-   Didier Morandi wrote:-N > Larry, you perfectly know that 90% of the readers prefer top posting becauseR > they are interested to read the answer to the question, without having to scrollH > down the question they just read the click before to reach the answer.  L 99% of the readers prefer to have a SHORT context at the top followed by theF answer below. You want to set the context BEFORE you read the answer.   K The issue isn't top posting, it is making sure people learn to include onlyl the necessary quote. =M If you include just a couple of lines, you do not need to "scroll down to seet the answer".    M I find it extremely surprising that folks on comp.os.vms, who should normallywM have lots of experience with the net and not be windows weenies wouldn't knowu2 these very basic things about usenet and/or email.  J BTW, if you read up the original NNTP  RFCs you'll notice that VMS figures prominently in the text.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:38:09 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>= Subject: Re: [OT]: Interesting article on search engine toolsf4 Message-ID: <3ff9cb9a$0$24050$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   John Smith wrote:s  N > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1212&e=5&u=/ap/20040103/ap_% > on_hi_te/seeing_search&sid=95573501a >  > F > Try http://vivisimo.com/ and enter 'openvms' as the search parameter  % Problem occurred while using Vivsimou4 Currently under heavy load. Please try again shortlyB Please go back to the Vivsimo home page and try your query again.  & Looks like, yeah, they have success...   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 16:08:37 -0500n* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>= Subject: Re: [OT]: Interesting article on search engine toolsr) Message-ID: <3FF9D254.9F28E2C3@istop.com>    John Smith wrote:nN > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1212&e=5&u=/ap/20040103/ap_% > on_hi_te/seeing_search&sid=95573501e > F > Try http://vivisimo.com/ and enter 'openvms' as the search parameter  K Seems like "cluster" is now the current buzzword, similar to "open" back in>M the early 1990s. For all their abilities, when I try tro search for "vms", It>U tells me the search has failed because they are too busy and that I should try again.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 02:52:05 GMTk# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>w= Subject: Re: [OT]: Interesting article on search engine toolsrI Message-ID: <pppKb.8105$1g41.472@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>l   JF Mezei wrote:e > John Smith wrote:h >>L http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1212&e=5&u=/ap/20040103/ap_& >> on_hi_te/seeing_search&sid=95573501 >>G >> Try http://vivisimo.com/ and enter 'openvms' as the search parametere >tE > Seems like "cluster" is now the current buzzword, similar to "open"v	 > back inhE > the early 1990s. For all their abilities, when I try tro search for  > "vms", It E > tells me the search has failed because they are too busy and that Ir > should try again.e  ; Nah...they just need a VMS cluster to handle the demand ;-)g   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.011 ************************