0 INFO-VAX	Tue, 06 Jan 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 12      Contents: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus? ! Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus? ! Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus? ! Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus? ! Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus? ! Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus? ! Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus? ! Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus? ! Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus? ! Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus? C Re: Any using reset_errors or zero device error counters for Alpha? C Re: Any using reset_errors or zero device error counters for Alpha? C Re: Any using reset_errors or zero device error counters for Alpha?  Re: change account password  Re: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX Re: end-search next sentence; First crash on VMS 7.3-2 on Personal Workstation 500au  :-(  GNU build tools ?? Re: GNU build tools ?? Re: GNU build tools ??/ How to determine which mirrored disk has errors 3 Re: How to determine which mirrored disk has errors ) Re: Interested in learning about OpenVMS. ) Re: Interested in learning about OpenVMS. ) Re: Interested in learning about OpenVMS. & Re: Is VMS 7.1-2 as stable as 7.1-1H2? Re: My Holiday Wishes  MySQL 4.0.17 for OpenVMS Re: new to vms Re: OpenMotif on ClosedVMS. Re: OpenVMS/VAX Hobbyist license checksum woes. Re: OpenVMS/VAX Hobbyist license checksum woes. RE: OpenVMS/VAX Hobbyist license checksum woes. Re: OpenVMS/VAX Hobbyist license checksum woes Re: password questions Re: password questions Re: password questions QTD-30 SCSI card Re: QTD-30 SCSI card Re: QTD-30 SCSI card( SANswitch 2/8EL console to DECserver 700& Re: scrambled terminal output on OPA0: SYS$QIOW problem Re: SYS$QIOW problem Re: SYS$QIOW problem Re: tcpip$config question # Re: Toasted AS2100 ECU floppy - VMS ! Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome ! Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome 6 Re: WASD 8.4.0 now available ... and on Itanium (IA64)D Re: Well Andrew, "3" count them "3" security patches for VMS in fiveD Re: Well Andrew, "3" count them "3" security patches for VMS in fiveD Re: Well Andrew, "3" count them "3" security patches for VMS in five Re: WTD:  VAX  memory sticks4 Re: [OT] Top posting (was: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 07:55:49 +0000 (UTC)% From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) & Subject: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus?( Message-ID: <btdpm5$5iu$1@pcls4.std.com>  I When installing my hobbyist VAX systems with 7.3, I'm given the option of C installing either DECnet-Plus or DECnet Phase IV.  Disregarding the I resource usage issues, is there any reason why I wouldn't want to go with " the default choice of DECnet-Plus?   -brian.  --  F --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----+ Font-o-Meter!      Proportional  Monospaced '                                       ^    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 04:22:43 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>* Subject: Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus?) Message-ID: <3FFA7E4A.218744EE@istop.com>    Brian Chase wrote:E > installing either DECnet-Plus or DECnet Phase IV.  Disregarding the K > resource usage issues, is there any reason why I wouldn't want to go with $ > the default choice of DECnet-Plus?  K Time to learn the totally new command set. Paper and toner to print all the L documentation (you really need to read it). Time to fiddle and experiment toI find the right file to edit to add cryptic command that will stop all the & spurious messages being sent to OPCOM.  L DECNET 5 does give you a few things that 4 doesn't give you, but it is quiteJ bloated compared to 4. Unless you need specific features of 5, you're muchD better off with the real decnet. Takes less disk space, fewer system9 resources, much easier to maintain and no learning curve.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:22:58 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus?4 Message-ID: <mUwKb.424872$dt3.319451@news.chello.at>  P In article <btdpm5$5iu$1@pcls4.std.com>, bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) writes:J >When installing my hobbyist VAX systems with 7.3, I'm given the option ofD >installing either DECnet-Plus or DECnet Phase IV.  Disregarding theJ >resource usage issues, is there any reason why I wouldn't want to go with# >the default choice of DECnet-Plus?   J Recently I installed OpenVMS VAX V7.3 on a VAXstation 4000-VLC with a RZ23H (109MB). The disk wasn't big enough for DECnet-Plus (90000 Blocks). So I! kept DECnet-Phase 4 (800 Blocks).    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2004 04:31:48 -0800 % From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) * Subject: Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus?= Message-ID: <a98cd882.0401060431.7199d758@posting.google.com>    It depends.   F If you are familiar with one of the two flavors AND you do not want to> spend time exploring the other flavour, select the one you are familiar with.  F However, if you want to be able to use DECnet over TCP/IP AND you want, to use only hp products, choose DECnet-plus.   HTH,  	 Bart Zorn   U bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) wrote in message news:<btdpm5$5iu$1@pcls4.std.com>... K > When installing my hobbyist VAX systems with 7.3, I'm given the option of E > installing either DECnet-Plus or DECnet Phase IV.  Disregarding the K > resource usage issues, is there any reason why I wouldn't want to go with $ > the default choice of DECnet-Plus? > 	 > -brian.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2004 05:46:04 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)* Subject: Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0401060546.2ad9da4a@posting.google.com>   U bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) wrote in message news:<btdpm5$5iu$1@pcls4.std.com>... K > When installing my hobbyist VAX systems with 7.3, I'm given the option of E > installing either DECnet-Plus or DECnet Phase IV.  Disregarding the K > resource usage issues, is there any reason why I wouldn't want to go with $ > the default choice of DECnet-Plus? > 	 > -brian.   9 too convuluted like unix/linux ... stay with phase IV ... 6 if you need decnet over IP, TCPware runs phase IV over IP, so no problem ...    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:27:23 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG* Subject: Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus?0 Message-ID: <00A2B7C8.2EE30491@SendSpamHere.ORG>  h In article <d7791aa1.0401060546.2ad9da4a@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:V >bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) wrote in message news:<btdpm5$5iu$1@pcls4.std.com>...L >> When installing my hobbyist VAX systems with 7.3, I'm given the option ofF >> installing either DECnet-Plus or DECnet Phase IV.  Disregarding theL >> resource usage issues, is there any reason why I wouldn't want to go with% >> the default choice of DECnet-Plus?  >>  
 >> -brian. > : >too convuluted like unix/linux ... stay with phase IV ...   Oh stop it Bob... it is not...   --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.  --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2004 07:54:56 -0800 - From: soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume) * Subject: Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus?= Message-ID: <f401eb7f.0401060754.1679cf8d@posting.google.com>   U bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) wrote in message news:<btdpm5$5iu$1@pcls4.std.com>... K > When installing my hobbyist VAX systems with 7.3, I'm given the option of E > installing either DECnet-Plus or DECnet Phase IV.  Disregarding the K > resource usage issues, is there any reason why I wouldn't want to go with $ > the default choice of DECnet-Plus? > 	 > -brian.   D For a hobbyist, no.  We had an issue with AST not being delivered onE an application under extreme usage with OSI.  We went back to NSP and  everything was happy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:57:38 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> * Subject: Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus?> Message-ID: <SVAKb.196792$b01.4478968@twister.tampabay.rr.com>  " How network knowledgeable are you?+ What is your experience level with Decnet V + How much do you like to read documentation?   How much of a masochist are you?F Do you have any special need for  Phase V  (e.g..  Do you need Bisynch driver support?); How much of a masochist are you? (asked twice for emphasis)   I Unless you answered each question with a high score, you probably want to 
 stay with IV.   2 "Brian Chase" <bdc@world.std.com> wrote in message" news:btdpm5$5iu$1@pcls4.std.com...K > When installing my hobbyist VAX systems with 7.3, I'm given the option of E > installing either DECnet-Plus or DECnet Phase IV.  Disregarding the K > resource usage issues, is there any reason why I wouldn't want to go with $ > the default choice of DECnet-Plus? > 	 > -brian.  > --  H > --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ ------ > Font-o-Meter!      Proportional  Monospaced ) >                                       ^  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 18:34:18 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>* Subject: Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus?0 Message-ID: <3FFAFFAA.4B634F43@sture.homeip.net>   Brian Chase wrote: > K > When installing my hobbyist VAX systems with 7.3, I'm given the option of E > installing either DECnet-Plus or DECnet Phase IV.  Disregarding the K > resource usage issues, is there any reason why I wouldn't want to go with $ > the default choice of DECnet-Plus? >   E If you are running on VAX with not much memory, particularly an older ( and slower one, I'd recommend Phase IV.   E Perhaps someone else will chime in with real examples of what defines E "slower" and "not much memory", but from previous discussions here on A the subject, I chose Phase IV for my 3100 Model 38 with 32MB RAM.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2004 12:51:38 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus?3 Message-ID: <NvN7q73hGXX8@eisner.encompasserve.org>   P In article <btdpm5$5iu$1@pcls4.std.com>, bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) writes:K > When installing my hobbyist VAX systems with 7.3, I'm given the option of E > installing either DECnet-Plus or DECnet Phase IV.  Disregarding the K > resource usage issues, is there any reason why I wouldn't want to go with $ > the default choice of DECnet-Plus?  F DECnet-Plus lacks certain security features, but as a hobbyist you areJ unlikely to be in a sufficiently large DECnet network for those to matter.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2004 06:51:11 -0800 + From: c00per11242001@yahoo.ca (Vic Mendham) L Subject: Re: Any using reset_errors or zero device error counters for Alpha?; Message-ID: <f7a73cb1.0401060651.6b08cf@posting.google.com>   2 Just wanted to thank everyone for assistance here.  @ I was wondering for testing purposes, is there any way to create0 errors or populate the I/O database with errors?   Vic.  u norm.raphael@metso.com wrote in message news:<OFFA997262.3C3A0CE0-ON85256E12.0079B05E-85256E12.007A647F@metso.com>...  > You want clear_errors: >  > =======================  > M > ----- Forwarded by Norm Raphael/WOR/Automation/METSO on 01/05/2004 05:15 PM  > -----  > J > goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) wrote on 02/27/2003 11:59:34 PM: >  > E > Two brand-new applications have been contributed to my VMS freeware  > archives:  > - >    o MORE  --  Simple more/less for OpenVMS  > F >      MORE is a simple version of the UNIX "more" or "less" commands.F >      It lets you view a file and navigate back and forth through the >      file while viewing it.  > : >      MORE was written by Matjaz Rihtar <matjaz@eunet.si> > C >    o CLEAR_ERRORS  -- Clears device error counts on OpenVMS Alpha  > ? >      Written by Mark Oakley <mark.oakley@verizonwireless.com>  >  > Thanks to Matjaz and Mark! > ! > http://www.process.com/openvms/  > 6 > ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/more.zip> > ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/clear_errors.zip; > http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/more.zip C > http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/clear_errors.zip 2 > ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/more.zip: > ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/clear_errors.zip7 > http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/more.zip ? > http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/clear_errors.zip  >  > and the other usual mirrors. >  > Hunter > ------; > Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/  > goathunter@goatley.com >  > =========================  > ; > VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote on 01/05/2004 04:03:22 PM:  > A > > In article <f7a73cb1.0401051256.56ea4456@posting.google.com>, 1 > > c00per11242001@yahoo.ca (Vic Mendham) writes: I > > >I have a script for reseting errors on VAX and it works great, I was K > > >trying to port to Alpha, and it crashed my test server. I found a link F > > >here from 2001 and was wondering if anyone is using this to reset > > >errors on their Alpha's.  > > > B > > >http://groups.google.com/groups?q=reset+errors+group:comp.os.G > > vms&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.os.vms&selm=C2256ADC.007432F5.00%  > > 40jklh21.valmet.com&rnum=5 > > > # > > >Watch out for the line wrap...  >   # > > Not me... I still use DELTA. ;)  >    > > --F > > http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security+ > > solutions that others only claim to be.  > > --4 > > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > 6 > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:31:31 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGL Subject: Re: Any using reset_errors or zero device error counters for Alpha?0 Message-ID: <00A2B7C8.C29CF590@SendSpamHere.ORG>  i In article <f7a73cb1.0401060651.6b08cf@posting.google.com>, c00per11242001@yahoo.ca (Vic Mendham) writes: 3 >Just wanted to thank everyone for assistance here.  > A >I was wondering for testing purposes, is there any way to create 1 >errors or populate the I/O database with errors?  >  >Vic.    RTFFAQ!   E There a procedure in the FAQ where I describe how to zap error counts E with DELTA.  Instead of supplying zero, supply some value other than.  --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.  --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2004 11:56:37 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) L Subject: Re: Any using reset_errors or zero device error counters for Alpha?3 Message-ID: <iGP3olLJmFUR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <f7a73cb1.0401060651.6b08cf@posting.google.com>, c00per11242001@yahoo.ca (Vic Mendham) writes: 4 > Just wanted to thank everyone for assistance here. > B > I was wondering for testing purposes, is there any way to create2 > errors or populate the I/O database with errors? >   %    Scratch the oxide off an old tape.   F    There were other simple techniques in earlier releases of VMS, but G    they were fixed in 3.0, which vastly predates the Alpha I think you      said you're working with.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 21:24:50 +0800( From: "Norbert Liew" <nliew@delinux.biz>$ Subject: Re: change account password) Message-ID: <3ffab71f$1_1@news.tm.net.my>   I Thanks everyone for help and the great suggestions.  Greatly appreciated.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 12:51:14 GMT 0 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@hp.com_remove_this>% Subject: Re: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX 2 Message-ID: <6byKb.11637$KA.7337@news.cpqcorp.net>   BTW....   F WRITE/NOWAIT is also coming. This will allow a process to write into a mailbox without waiting 
 for a reader.    Guy   ; "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@hp.com_remove_this> wrote in message - news:5TeKb.11529$fu7.9533@news.cpqcorp.net...  > Happy new year everyone. > B > I have added the ability to create and delete mailboxes from DCL
 (permanent > and temporary) using : >  > $ CREATE/MAILBOX > $ DELETE/MAILBOX > . > I would like to offer field test images for: >  > Alpha V7.3-1 & V7.3-2 
 > Vax V7.3 > > > If you are interested in fieldtesting the new images send me* > your e-mail address. (do not reply here) > L > Please be aware that these images are not officially supported and you may( > only complain about them to me and notH > to your local support center. Images will be distributed in ZIP files. > 2 >  The new functionality will be shipped with V8.2 > 
 > Regards, >  > Guy Peleg. >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:16:30 +0000 , From: Adrian Birkett <aaa@notreallyhere.com>% Subject: Re: end-search next sentence 1 Message-ID: <3FFA990D.87C9AA5B@notreallyhere.com>   > From $ HELP COBOL PROCED SEARCH on Alpha VMS 7.1-2, Cobol V2.6   COBOL      PROCEDURE_DIVISION  
     SEARCH         1format_serial  ?          The SEARCH statement searches for a table element that  satisfies a G          condition.  It sets the value of the associated index to point  to the          table element.             Format 1 -   ?           SEARCH src-table [ VARYING pointr ] [ AT END stment ]   4              { {WHEN cond stment} ... END-SEARCH   }4              {                                     }4              { {WHEN cond { stment        } }      }4              { {          { NEXT SENTENCE } } ...  }    / So it would appear that it does (here at least)    Ade    _removespam_ wrote:   
 > vax allowed  >    search  >       when >         next sentence  >       when >    end-search  >   > dec / alpha will not allow it. >  > what is the work around?> > email   tutor_nospam_@cfl.rr.com (remove the _nospam_ first)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 10:42:26 +0000  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> D Subject: First crash on VMS 7.3-2 on Personal Workstation 500au  :-(4 Message-ID: <bte3eq$9vj$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>   :-(   < I had my first system crash last night on my hobbyist system: at home.  I'm looking at the crash dump today (when I find time).  5 Bugcheck Type:	INVEXEPTN,Exception while above ASTDEL 9 Failing PC:	FFFFFFFF.8004BE74   EXE_STD$QUEUE_FORK_C+0064 
 		(INSQUEL/D)    More later when I find time.  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:16:09 +0530 From: "ASDF" <ASDF@ASDF> Subject: GNU build tools ?? * Message-ID: <3ffac944@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  J Can somebody out here provide me the pointer to GNU build tools (automake, autoconf etc...) on VMS?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 18:45:23 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> Subject: Re: GNU build tools ?? 0 Message-ID: <3FFB0243.2C4159C0@sture.homeip.net>   ASDF wrote:  > L > Can somebody out here provide me the pointer to GNU build tools (automake, > autoconf etc...) on VMS?   Take a look at:   4 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/opensource/opensource.html  8 Note that GNU for VMS is called GNV - GNV's Not VMS :-)    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2004 11:59:07 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: GNU build tools ?? 3 Message-ID: <JJIQ9AcmAL8+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   E In article <3ffac944@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "ASDF" <ASDF@ASDF> writes: L > Can somebody out here provide me the pointer to GNU build tools (automake, > autoconf etc...) on VMS?      www.gnu.org  H    gmake is ported, I don't know about automake or autoconf.  The usuallC    workaround if you can't find a build tool is to do a build on a  J    supported platform, logging the commands to a file, and then edit that     to make a VMS build script.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2004 04:37:45 -0800 & From: RJDurkee@yahoo.com (Rich Durkee)8 Subject: How to determine which mirrored disk has errors< Message-ID: <14deb915.0401060437.eb30556@posting.google.com>  B My OpenVMS 7.1 system is reporting a large number of errors on oneC disk device. The device is mirrored at the controller level. If log A onto the HSJ50 controller, I cannot find a command that shows the F error count for each device. So how do I know which device to replace? Rich Durkee    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 04 05:52:22 PST  From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com < Subject: Re: How to determine which mirrored disk has errors( Message-ID: <QTn9gTYJvSsT@cpva.saic.com>  < In article <14deb915.0401060437.eb30556@posting.google.com>,)  RJDurkee@yahoo.com (Rich Durkee) writes: D > My OpenVMS 7.1 system is reporting a large number of errors on oneE > disk device. The device is mirrored at the controller level. If log C > onto the HSJ50 controller, I cannot find a command that shows the H > error count for each device. So how do I know which device to replace?
 > Rich Durkee   9 $ DIAGNOSE/INCLUDE=disk_device/SINCE=some_reasonable_time   D then scan the output and look for an "associated port and target" orC "device locator" information. This should provide you the the P-T-L  of the failing unit.   --   - Jim    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:24:15 +0100- From: "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de> 2 Subject: Re: Interested in learning about OpenVMS.8 Message-ID: <btdrbh$66fgm$1@ID-56200.news.uni-berlin.de>   Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > Mike Duffy wrote:  >> Richard B. Gilbert wrote:D >>> Any of the introductory texts listed here should help. I suspectD >>> that most of them are out of print. You can probably find one or' >>> more in Amazon's used book service.  >>> G >>> This bibliography is based on postings to the Info-VAX mailing list > >>> by Professor David D. Miller, Arne Vajhoj and others, withA >>> additions, corrections, and formatting by Richard B. Gilbert.  >>> F >>> Some books may appear in more than one category. Some books may be >>> out of print.  >>> , >>> Introduction to VAX/VMS - for new users. >>> D >>> Bynon, David W. and Shannon, Terry C. "Introduction to VAX/VMS".F >>> Cardinal Business Media Peters, James, F. III. and Holmay, Patrick2 >>> J. "The VMS User's Guide". Digital Press, 1990 >>> " >>> [Remaining entries deleted...] >>   >>  Richard, >>  G >>  That's a pretty complete list you have there. Thanks for taking the C >>  time to maintain and post it. Please note there are a couple of  >>  updates to make: >>  D >>  Duffy, Michael D. "Getting Started with OpenVMS". Digital Press,( >>  2002, ~300 pages. ISBN 1-55558-279-6 >>  B >>  Also note that David Miller and Steve Hoffman have updated the= >>  Baldwin "OpenVMS System Management Guide". It's just out.  >>  1-55558-243-5  >>  = >>  Miller's "Getting Started with OpenVMS System Management" @ >>  (1-55558-281-8) seems to be a subset of the updated Baldwin. >>  D >>  And don't forget Winston's "OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD". >>  1-55558-264-8. >  > Mike,  > D > I've added your book to the bibliography; that's the first time inH > several years that I've updated it.  I stopped following the newsgroupG > about four years ago due to the high noise level; it consumed far too # > much of my time.  It still does!!  > G > The rest of the information you provided is a little too slim to make E > a decent entry. I need the names of all the authors, as they appear < > on the title page, the exact title, the publisher, and theD > publication date. If ISBN numbers or "order numbers" are available > I'll include those as well.  > G > Amazon doesn't list the Hoffman-Miller-Baldwin book yet.  I found the H > details on the Winston book and Miller's "Getting Started with OpenVMS, > System Management" and added them as well.  H If you go to the Digital Press Bookstores (e.g. via the OpenVMS homepage< http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/) you'll find all of the books:  - Lawrence Baldwin, Steve Hoffman, David Miller / OpenVMS System Management Guide, Second Edition  ISBN: 1555582435 Published: 20 Nov 2003  
 David Miller  / Getting Started with OpenVMS System Management   ISBN: 1555582818 Published: 8 May 2003   
 Alan Winston  ; OpenVMS with Apache, WASD, and OSU - The Nonstop Webserver   ISBN: 1555582648   Published: 24 Oct 2002  - Too bad the 30% discount period just ended...    cu,    Martin --  F   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de F    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 06:48:43 -0700, From: David D Miller <ddmiller@raytheon.com>2 Subject: Re: Interested in learning about OpenVMS.D Message-ID: <OFCCB8202F.55C60182-ON07256E13.004B9AC1@mck.us.ray.com>   Richard:  6 Search Amazon for OpenVMS Management.  You'll find it.  ~ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1555582435/qid=1073396717/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-6619155-8414427?v=glance&s=books  0 Both books have a pretty extensive bibliography.   dave.      Richard Gilbert wrote ...    Mike,   B I've added your book to the bibliography; that's the first time inF several years that I've updated it.  I stopped following the newsgroupE about four years ago due to the high noise level; it consumed far too ! much of my time.  It still does!!   G The rest of the information you provided is a little too slim to make a H decent entry. I need the names of all the authors, as they appear on theE title page, the exact title, the publisher, and the publication date. F If ISBN numbers or "order numbers" are available I'll include those as well.   E Amazon doesn't list the Hoffman-Miller-Baldwin book yet.  I found the F details on the Winston book and Miller's "Getting Started with OpenVMS* System Management" and added them as well.   Mike Duffy wrote:   7 > > -----Original Message----- From: Richard B. Gilbert D > > [mailto:rgilbert88@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004@ > > 8:23 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com Subject: Re: Interested in > > learning about OpenVMS.  > >  > >  > > D > > Any of the introductory texts listed here should help. I suspectD > > that most of them are out of print. You can probably find one or' > > more in Amazon's used book service.  > > G > > This bibliography is based on postings to the Info-VAX mailing list > > > by Professor David D. Miller, Arne Vajhoj and others, withA > > additions, corrections, and formatting by Richard B. Gilbert.  > > F > > Some books may appear in more than one category. Some books may be > > out of print.  > > , > > Introduction to VAX/VMS - for new users. > > D > > Bynon, David W. and Shannon, Terry C. "Introduction to VAX/VMS".F > > Cardinal Business Media Peters, James, F. III. and Holmay, Patrick2 > > J. "The VMS User's Guide". Digital Press, 1990 > > " > > [Remaining entries deleted...] >  >  >  Richard,  > F >  That's a pretty complete list you have there. Thanks for taking theB >  time to maintain and post it. Please note there are a couple of >  updates to make:  > C >  Duffy, Michael D. "Getting Started with OpenVMS". Digital Press, ' >  2002, ~300 pages. ISBN 1-55558-279-6  > A >  Also note that David Miller and Steve Hoffman have updated the < >  Baldwin "OpenVMS System Management Guide". It's just out. >  1-55558-243-5 > < >  Miller's "Getting Started with OpenVMS System Management"? >  (1-55558-281-8) seems to be a subset of the updated Baldwin.  > C >  And don't forget Winston's "OpenVMS with Apache, OSU, and WASD".  >  1-55558-264-8.  >  >  -Mike Duffy >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 07:38:43 -0600 6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>2 Subject: Re: Interested in learning about OpenVMS.T Message-ID: <craigberry-EB7B1D.07384306012004@dsl081-159-101.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net>  0 In article <5_6dnakoqfNQi2eiRVn-uQ@comcast.com>,5  "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:   : > Amazon doesn't list the Hoffman-Miller-Baldwin book yet.  8 Sure it does.  Search for 1555582435, which is the ISBN.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2004 05:43:46 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)/ Subject: Re: Is VMS 7.1-2 as stable as 7.1-1H2? = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0401060543.27ca9c8d@posting.google.com>   q "konabear" <maurert@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:<eCoKb.21158$P%1.20356110@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>...  > Bob, > M > So if I understand, you need 7.1-2 for to support hardware.  Your desire to F > stay at 7.1-* is to avoid the fees for upgrading 3rd party products. > L > If you must get the new faster boxes in place, and the budget demands thatJ > you not upgrade the 3rd party software, then stability isn't really your > question.  > K > Generally there are reasons to argue that 7.1-2 with ECOs applied will be M > more stable than older versions of 7.1-*.   However once you get there with K > your (new or old) )specific hardware configuration, your set of installed N > ECOs, your application software and your specific load, I can't promise thatM > your experience with 7.1-2 will prove more or less stable than your current L > hardware and software version.  Further if you get to the new hardware andL > 7.1-2 and it proves less than stable, I don't have much of any way to helpN > you unless there is an ECO you haven't installed that addresses the problem. > M > The advantage your current configuration has is that it is the same as it's * > been and what it has been is rock solid. > N > My advise to you is either lock down the current configuration, hardware andN > software, or upgrade both to supported versions.   Are you likely to succeedK > if you upgrade the software part way and then the hardware, yes probably. # > Would I bet a business on it? NO.  > K > If you can, keep the old gear in case your forced to back out the version  > and therefore the hardware.   = I will run on a test box before implementing, but I just want + some feedback on the stability of 7.1-2 ...    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 13:57:38 GMT - From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@hp.com>  Subject: Re: My Holiday Wishes% Message-ID: <3FFADAF0.74B889D@hp.com>    Paul Sture wrote:  >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > 8 > > In article <3fec801d$0$17138$626a54ce@news.free.fr>,0 > >         Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes: > > > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > > > d > > >> Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote in message news:<3febe661$0$1181$636a55ce@news.free.fr>... > > >> > > >>>David J. Dachtera wrote:  > > >>> J > > >>>>My wish for the group and for all with whom we share this world is > > >>>>simple:  > > >>>> > > >>>>Peace in our days. > > >>>>' > > >>>>Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.  > > >>>  > > >>>Et cum spiritu tuo. > > >>>  > > >>>(this one was easy :-)  > > >>> 	 > > >>>D.  > > >>>Deo omnis gloria  > > >> > > >>$ > > >> Revertere ad lucum tuum ! :-) > > > + > > > But before... Introibo ad altare Dei.  > > >  > > > D. > > >  > > C > > This has obviously gone way OT, but as a Theology Major with an A > > interest in Traditional Catholic Liturgy I find the number of D > > people in this small group who are familiar with (and apparently: > > still understand) these Latin snippets rather curious. > >  > J > Perhaps not a coincidence. Going back to an online discussion from circaC > 1997 in a general interest forum, the IT people there came to the G > conclusion that the fresh graduates we would prefer to recruit for IT J > jobs were Classics ones, closely followed by those with Modern LanguagesI > or Maths. That surprised all the non-IT people involved, and few of the F > IT folks too (myself included, but I had to agree with the outcome). > E > One of the main reasons was that, as opposed to CS graduates, these I > people had proved themselves capable of learning a discipline, and also $ > came without preconceptions of IT. > B > Not quite as I remember it (Google gave me this one, with CaesarI > misspelled, so I don't exactly trust it), but something from when I wasn > 11 years old >  > Caesar ad sum iam forte, > Brutus et erat.e > Ceasar sic in omnibus, > Brutus sic in at.i >  > -- > Paul Sture   faintly, as a far-off memory:    civile, ergo fortibus es in ero   - (see willy, 'ere go forty busses in a row...)i  ! o nobile deus nobus es, deus truxe   -- CE ---------------------------------------------------------------------oE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.s? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*rF Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------o -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----e Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------V   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 18:08:24 +0100g From: jf.pieronne@laposte.net1! Subject: MySQL 4.0.17 for OpenVMSl2 Message-ID: <bteq1t$cac$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>  0 MySQL 4.0.17 is the latest MySQL stable version.  2 The kit also include the client shareable library.  M Download from http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/kits/ or any of the two / mirrors.  
 Jean-Franoisu   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:19:23 GMTt6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: new to vmsE4 Message-ID: <%QwKb.424836$dt3.189181@news.chello.at>  h In article <pan.2004.01.06.05.26.21.560636@yahoo.com>, "Ramiro Rodriguez" <ergodicsum@yahoo.com> writes:I >Hello I just read about VMS and I am curious about it. I head that it isMK >adying out and it is only used on mainframe machines. Even so I would like H >to try it out. Is there any sort of emulator or some way to play around- >with it without actually buying a mainframe?y  + Oh, another troll, begging for a flame-war.c  G VMS does not require a mainframe. It runs in fact on a very broad rangesH of machines (used to be from laptops up to mainframes). It also providesL about 98% functionality of an "ideal cluster" (while U**X ranges from 50-80% and M$ ranges from 10-40%).   H VMS (which also has another name OpenVMS) hasn't died already (and is inL fact currently being ported to INTEL's IA64 platform, mainly to get a longerL life) and still runs on a lot of important sites all over the world and also# gets some new customers every year.r  I The problem with VMS is not functionality or engineering, it is marketingaM and sales, which did very bad injuries to VMS by not mentioning/promoting it.o  M Start with http://www.openvms.digital.com and http://www.openvms.org and also L read about the SIMH (freeware) and CHARON-VAX (commercial) VAX h/w emulator.   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER0% Network and OpenVMS system specialists E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:12:44 GMTs9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>n# Subject: Re: OpenMotif on ClosedVMSh2 Message-ID: <MfAKb.11649$bH.4386@news.cpqcorp.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:3FF9D460.BAF92393@istop.com...e > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:K > > The biggest limitations in rolling your own is the loss of VMS-specifics: > > modifications - like getting VMS filenames in widgets. >5G > Which is why, if you guys are too busy with other stuff, and now thata Motif isJ > going to open source, it would be nice if the VMS specific bits (such as fileK > selection) were to be made available in open source. It isn't as if folksa from; > other operating systems could steal those technologies...  >e  I I'm all in favor of it.  There isn't some fear of others seeing/using it.A< But it's someplace around 99th place in terms of other work.   > > And usually you end43 > > up with a TCPIP only transport (using sockets).s > >  The VMS utilities like SET * > > DISPLAY will not work without changes. >X< > Aren't those just X features that are unrelated to motif ? >C  	 Some yes.E  K > I realise that one would have to recompile the session manager stuff, andh also+ > recompile the MWM window maneger as well.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:13:13 +010009 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>E7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS/VAX Hobbyist license checksum woesB& Message-ID: <3FFAD089.3F7A3FA@aaa.com>   Brian Chase wrote: > I > Even after the install, I tried running @SYS$UPDATE:VMSLICENSE from the K > command line, but that didn't work.  What did work was just typing in the-J > whole "LICENSE REGISTER VAX-VMS" blob from my license file as a command,# > loading it, and then enabling it.t  < Or just cut-n-paste it from whatever mail tool you are using< into a terminal (DECW, telnet or serial to the console port) window. Much less typing...n  	 Jan-Erik.i   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:13:06 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS/VAX Hobbyist license checksum woesp) Message-ID: <04010610130650@antinode.org>t  9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>w   > [...]i> > Or just cut-n-paste it from whatever mail tool you are using> > into a terminal (DECW, telnet or serial to the console port) > window. Much less typing...e  F    One significant source of trouble here is that the Hobbyist licenseE data use "/DATE", which appears not to be documented in the HELP (VMS  Alpha, V7.3-1):-   ALP $ help license register0 [...]6  %     Additional information available:b       Parameter  QualifiersdD     /ACTIVITY  /AUTHORIZATION        /AVAILABILITY         /CHECKSUMD     /DATABASE  /HARDWARE_ID          /ISSUER    /OPTIONS   /PRODUCERA     /RELEASE_DATE         /TERMINATION_DATE     /TOKEN     /UNITSs     /VERSION"     Description           Examples [...]l  @    Apparently, using "/DATE = dd-mm-yyyy" is equivalent to usingH "/RELEASE_DATE = dd-mm-yyyy" _and_ "/TERMINATION_DATE = dd-mm-yyyy", butE this is unlikely to be obvious to a novice user.  (Or to me, for thatlF matter.  I used the Hobbyist e-mail command procedure and LICENSE LIST! /FULL to see what was happening.)n  D    If you can run command from the (edited) e-mail, then it works as6 desired, but if you try to register a license manuallyA ("@ SYS$UPDATE:VMSLICENSE.COM"), then confusion and/or trouble is3 likely.S      Ideas to consider:e         Fix the HELP.a  @       Change the Hobbyist license e-mail to explain this.  (LineE wrapping at less than 80 characters would be nice there, too, and who1F wrote, "Usage of this licenses consistutes agreement with all terms ofH this Hobbyist License Agreement"?  And after the subject and verb agree,E it'd be nice to include the period at the end of the sentence.  Or ish% everything already better this year?)f  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-orgh    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547y   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:45:56 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>n7 Subject: RE: OpenVMS/VAX Hobbyist license checksum woes 9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIEELMCJAA.tom@kednos.com>-   < -----Original Message-----2 < From: sms@antinode.org [mailto:sms@antinode.org]) < Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 8:13 AMA < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 9 < Subject: Re: OpenVMS/VAX Hobbyist license checksum woesm <  <d; < From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>i <@	 < > [...]o@ < > Or just cut-n-paste it from whatever mail tool you are using@ < > into a terminal (DECW, telnet or serial to the console port) < > window. Much less typing...r <uH <    One significant source of trouble here is that the Hobbyist licenseG < data use "/DATE", which appears not to be documented in the HELP (VMSa < Alpha, V7.3-1):  <  < ALP $ help license registeri < [...]e <e' <     Additional information available:n <  <     Parameter  Qualifiers-F <     /ACTIVITY  /AUTHORIZATION        /AVAILABILITY         /CHECKSUMF <     /DATABASE  /HARDWARE_ID          /ISSUER    /OPTIONS   /PRODUCERC <     /RELEASE_DATE         /TERMINATION_DATE     /TOKEN     /UNITS  <     /VERSION$ <     Description           Examples < [...]e < B <    Apparently, using "/DATE = dd-mm-yyyy" is equivalent to usingJ < "/RELEASE_DATE = dd-mm-yyyy" _and_ "/TERMINATION_DATE = dd-mm-yyyy", butG < this is unlikely to be obvious to a novice user.  (Or to me, for that?H < matter.  I used the Hobbyist e-mail command procedure and LICENSE LIST# < /FULL to see what was happening.)y <tF <    If you can run command from the (edited) e-mail, then it works as8 < desired, but if you try to register a license manuallyC < ("@ SYS$UPDATE:VMSLICENSE.COM"), then confusion and/or trouble isn	 < likely.D <e <    Ideas to consider:  <  <       Fix the HELP.e <iB <       Change the Hobbyist license e-mail to explain this.  (LineG < wrapping at less than 80 characters would be nice there, too, and wholH < wrote, "Usage of this licenses consistutes agreement with all terms ofJ < this Hobbyist License Agreement"?  And after the subject and verb agree,G < it'd be nice to include the period at the end of the sentence.  Or is ' < everything already better this year?)j <:L Except it is not subject (Usage) and verb (consitutes) agreement it is wrong9 person on the dmonstrative pronoun, this, should be theseyJ < ------------------------------------------------------------------------ <P6 <    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98185 <    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org  <    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547  <n < ---?( < Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< < Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A < Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004a <e ---w& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004l   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:50:39 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS/VAX Hobbyist license checksum woest) Message-ID: <04010611503902@antinode.org>c  # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>5  N > Except it is not subject (Usage) and verb (consitutes) agreement it is wrong; > person on the dmonstrative pronoun, this, should be thesen  B    Oops.  I must be in a rut.  I've been noticing bad subject-verbG agreement on NPR lately.  Actually, in the Hobbyist license e-mail, the H VMS license messages should say "this license", and the layered products$ message should say "these licenses".  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-orgn    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 10:27:54 +0000.* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> Subject: Re: password questionss' Message-ID: <bte2iv$ak0$1@lore.csc.com>t   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > c > In article <2enjvv45e5d0vq1mvv35bftoo7utskbve8@4ax.com>, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> writes:i > Q > > The "depth" of the password history is controlled by the system logical names O > > SYS$PASSWORD_HISTORY_LIMIT and SYS$PASSWORD_HISTORY_LIFETIME logical names, R > > which default to 60 and 365, respectively. I suppose you could do what you askS > > by setting the limit to 5 and the lifetime to something like 5*PWDLIFETIME fromnN > > SYSUAF. But, I'm not sure of the implications if someone were to "rapidly": > > change their password to try to circumvent the scheme. > K > When they exceed the cache size, they are forced into password generationuF > mode, which for most guarantees they will never try _that_ again :-)  F Until now, I thought when it came to security, Hoff was pretty evil inD the making things difficult for the smart alec users department, butB this is close enough that you could also call "Frogstar" home. :-)   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Scienceso nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2004 07:52:22 -0600/; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)c Subject: Re: password questions.3 Message-ID: <n39$9xyyjSEJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  T In article <bte2iv$ak0$1@lore.csc.com>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> writes: >> /L >> When they exceed the cache size, they are forced into password generationG >> mode, which for most guarantees they will never try _that_ again :-)e > H > Until now, I thought when it came to security, Hoff was pretty evil inF > the making things difficult for the smart alec users department, butD > this is close enough that you could also call "Frogstar" home. :-)  H    I only had one user actually try that.  I only had to fix his account#    once.  Word gets around quickly.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2004 07:50:17 -0600t; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t Subject: Re: password questionsa3 Message-ID: <nq30kEGx9YFE@eisner.encompasserve.org>2  d In article <c4kKb.192664$b01.4376998@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> writes: > G >     1. Can we FORCE alphanumeric passwords?  I know that alphanumeric&M > passwords are supported, but under VMS can we FORCE the use of at least one&5 > alpha character and at least one numeric character?   G    Yes.  I do it.  You need to write a VMS$PASSWORD_POLICY.EXE, I don'tc;    recall where this is documented.  Look for LGI callouts.i  M >     2.   Is there anyway to set password history so that it only tracks thenJ > last 5 passwords?  I know how to change the time the password history is9 > kept, but I don't believe we can force a numeric limit.-  $    No.  The closest you can come is /       (history lifetime)/(password lifetime).  :C    The default value for history lifetime is 1 year.  The number ofsG    passwords tracked is (or was) 60.  If a user fills up the history in0G    less than a year, VMS will force them to use the password generator.r  L > Our security administration is trying to define a set of rules to span allH > of our Operating Systems (and we probably have several of everything).  E    Most likely won't work or will say nothing.  The different OS justrA    vary too much.  There are two apraoches to dealing with these:   G       1) play nice:  get them to allow exceptions, like "recommended", l<       	 "where available", or "policy", instead of "rule" orF       	 "requirement", then work with them to identify and make use ofD       	 the powerfull security features in VMS until they whish they       	 had them everywherey  E       2) play mean:  push them to include features which VMS has, but-C       	 very few other OS have, such as intruder evasion that times.F       	 out, password generation, tape mount logging, ..., then hammer<       	 on them until they give up on one-rules-set-fits-all  #    I cannot recommend the latter.  t  K    We at one time did have a "policy" from a customer that listed features VK    only IBM mainframes had plus features only VMS had.  Then they went out  G    and bought UNIX and Windows anyhow.  Now that have required trainingrD    courses: the UNIX seurity course and the Windows secutiry course,(    even though we're using _everything_.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2004 07:50:28 -0800f. From: send_lotsa_spam_here@yahoo.com (Soterro) Subject: QTD-30 SCSI cardw= Message-ID: <1a63f162.0401060750.66949504@posting.google.com>J   Hello, 2  A I'm trying to use a QTD-30 card into a VAX 4000-300 with a CD-ROMaD unit, to install the hobbyist thing on the machine. I wasn't able toA find _any_ documentation, printed or online, about that card (hast somebody maybe something?)  > So I start the machine and I try to boot from the CD. Too bad,  
 >>>show uqssp.  UQSSP Disk Controller 0 (772150)    UQSSP Tape Controller 0 (774500) >>>b   (takes a while to print it)>D As you can see, I cannot see any CDROM attached to the card. I triedF three different drives: Toshiba XM-6201B, Plextor PX-12PSi and PhilipsD PCA80SC. Might it be that none of them is supported, or do I have to@ check/configure anything special on the console? Or to configure8 anything on this almost unknown to mankind QTD-30 board?B And if it's only a compatibility issue, is there a list on the netD with the supported drives (supported by QTD, or by VAX 4000 console, or by what?)  
 Thank you, SV   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:43:00 +0000g* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> Subject: Re: QTD-30 SCSI cardr' Message-ID: <bteoia$i4s$1@lore.csc.com>p   Soterro wrote: >  > Hello, > C > I'm trying to use a QTD-30 card into a VAX 4000-300 with a CD-ROM F > unit, to install the hobbyist thing on the machine. I wasn't able toC > find _any_ documentation, printed or online, about that card (has- > somebody maybe something?)  , Where did you put the card in the backplane?  H These QBUS machines rely on grant continuity, and if your SCSI card is aD full height card, I would put this card in next to the adjacent fullF height card, or adjacent the CPU and memory, the grant signalling runsD from right to left with the processor and memory section on the "farE right". If there are any half height cards (e.g. TK controllers) theyi, could give you a problem (move them 'down').  F Other things that may be stopping it from working are these cards haveD CSR and vector settings, these are not "plug and pray" cards, if theB settings are wrong, again they will not show up from the operatingG system, although a SH DEV at the console may give you some information.   E You are right though, in order to boot, you'll have to see the device 
 from console.p   -- a? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesa nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:03:43 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org Subject: Re: QTD-30 SCSI carda) Message-ID: <04010611034385@antinode.org>(  * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>  . > Where did you put the card in the backplane? > [...]r  H    As I recall (and it's been a while), in the VAX 4000-300, dual-heightD cards must go in the top half of the quad-height slots.  (There wereG black plastic pseudo-cards designed to fill the bottom half and support  the smaller cards.)   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2004 01:49:33 -0800 - From: martin.platts@cdl.co.uk (Martin Platts)D1 Subject: SANswitch 2/8EL console to DECserver 700g= Message-ID: <b367fb16.0401060149.58f92644@posting.google.com>r  ? Has anyone tried/succeeded in connecting a SANswitch 2/8EL to a)A DECserver 700 serial port for console monitoring of the switches.4  A I've tried the supplied cable and output is seen - but is largely:D corrupted - and I can't type anything. I've made my own cable and itC seems to do exactly the same - so I believe the supplied one is ok.t  B The settings (which don't seem able to be changed) on the port are" 9600,8,N,1 and no flow control (!)  D Does anyone have any suggestions for DECserver port settings and theF corresponding/required OpenVMS Terminal settings (beyond ALTYPEAHD) toF allow it to be accessed. I can't use the system serial port as its for? an ES47 which only has one port and there are several switches.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 22:25:09 -0500e* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>/ Subject: Re: scrambled terminal output on OPA0:r) Message-ID: <3FFA2A95.B70868CC@istop.com>e  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:t@ > The terminal has the same settings as another one which works.  K If you have NODE1::OPA0: hardwired to NODE2::TXA2: and from NODE2:TXA3: youf SET HOST/DTE TXA2:F you then have 3 terminals to check to ensure that they have TTSYNC and HOSTSYNC enabled.-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 17:24:38 +0800/ From: "Yong Boon, Lim" <limyb@megasteel.com.my>r Subject: SYS$QIOW problemg* Message-ID: <btdv4f$f8v$1@news5.jaring.my>   Hello,  J         One of the processes running on OpenVMS have been running well for past few year untillF         recently, it run for a while then stop itself due to the error SS$_UNREACHABLE (TheK         remote node is currently unreachable.), SS$_LINKDISCON (The network  partner task disconnected-K         the logical link.) or SS$_UNREACHABLE (The remote node is currently@ unreachable.) whilec          using function SYS$QIOW.  G         What're the possible causes of the problem? How do l verify thee causes? And how do l rectify         the problem?            Thank you in advance! :>   Your Best Regards, Yong Boon, Lim   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:53:04 +0100- From: "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de>e Subject: Re: SYS$QIOW problemd8 Message-ID: <bte0i2$60f5t$1@ID-56200.news.uni-berlin.de>   Yong Boon, Lim wrote:eJ > One of the processes running on OpenVMS have been running well for past K > few year untill recently, it run for a while then stop itself due to the nE > error SS$_UNREACHABLE (The remote node is currently unreachable.),  K > SS$_LINKDISCON (The network partner task disconnected the logical link.) -G > or SS$_UNREACHABLE (The remote node is currently unreachable.) while m > using function SYS$QIOW.  G SYS$QIOW is a system service that has a multitude of functions. Without5G telling us a bit about how it is called, I'm afraid we will not be ablee to do anything but guessing.   cu,    Martin -- oF   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deoF    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 12:18:21 -0600 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>  Subject: Re: SYS$QIOW problemh3 Message-ID: <3FFAFBED.8106D919@applied-synergy.com>    "Yong Boon, Lim" wrote:  >  > Hello, > L >         One of the processes running on OpenVMS have been running well for > past few year untillH >         recently, it run for a while then stop itself due to the error > SS$_UNREACHABLE (TheM >         remote node is currently unreachable.), SS$_LINKDISCON (The network  > partner task disconnected M >         the logical link.) or SS$_UNREACHABLE (The remote node is currentlye > unreachable.) whilee" >         using function SYS$QIOW. > I >         What're the possible causes of the problem? How do l verify the3 > causes? And how do l rectify >         the problem?    G The particular errors you are seeing have to do with network connectiona@ problems.  SYS$QIOW is not the source of the problem, it is just
 reporting it.   H It appears that you have an application which makes a network connectionH between two nodes.  Check your network connectivity between these nodes.  F The actual steps you need to take will depend on the network which you use.  
 Good luck!  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------p$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074y   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:16:52 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>" Subject: Re: tcpip$config question4 Message-ID: <3ffad1ce$0$19271$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Hans Vlems wrote:s  2 > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> schreef in bericht5 > news:NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIOEIKCJAA.tom@kednos.com...e > ; >>I am playing with a VAX emulator running 7.3 under Linux.e< >>In trying to change the IP's, I used a different host nameD >>and it refuses to let me change saying that it is already assigned) >>to the other name.  How do I remove it?s  K > Assuming that you want to change the name of the simhVAX and that you rund( > TCPIP services for VMS, IIRC you must: > - stop the TCPIP stack? > - rerun the basic configuration module (# 1 in the main menu)4+ > Or did I miss the point of your question?   ! (Hi Hans, Hi Tom, Happy New Year)a   What are we talking about here?s  @ 1. Tom, forget about the OS which runs the emulator. VMS is VMS.  L 2. you do not want to "use a different host name" to "try to change your IP 	 address".   L As Hans said, boot VMS, execute sys$manager:tcpip$config if you use DIGITAL P TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS, choose choice 1, Core env, then 2, Interface, then Q 1, configure interface manually, then enter the new IP address you want for your a box and you are done.t  - 3. to add a node name in the TCP/IP database:-  > DTL02> tcpip set host dtl.toto/addr=123.123.123.123/alias=toto  
 to remove it:i   $ set nohost dtl.totoo  Q If you have a node name already recorded in yourt local TCP/IP database with the 1P IP address that you want to give to your box, just do a SET NOHOST, then record . the new name of your box with the new address.   Hope that helps,   D.  1 PS: if you are talking about this "error" message9  O          Digital TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Interface WE0 Reconfiguration Menu   !          Reconfiguration options:   L                   1  -  Configure interface manually       (Current default)4                   2  -  Let DHCP configure interface  D                  [E] -  Exit menu (Do not reconfigure interface WE0)   Enter configuration option: 1m6 Enter fully qualified host name [DTL02.DTL]: dtl01.dtl- Enter Internet address for dtl01: 192.168.0.2t  <          This Internet address is used by host: PRESARIO.DTL  ! Enter Internet address for dtl01:p  M then double check that you really want to give the IP address of presario to lI dtl01, then delete presario from your local db as previously shown, then r+ redefine the new name with the new address.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:22:31 GMTm6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER), Subject: Re: Toasted AS2100 ECU floppy - VMS4 Message-ID: <XoAKb.427615$dt3.306000@news.chello.at>  } In article <KIoKb.5073$5s5.4464@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> writes: / >Peter Langstoeger -- your site is inaccessibled >r5 >ALPHA1>MAUSTIN>MAUSTIN]$ nslookup ftp.langstoeger.at # >Server:  dns1.ksc2mo.sbcglobal.netr >Address:  151.164.8.201 >o> >*** dns1.ksc2mo.sbcglobal.net can't find ftp.langstoeger.at:    This is fixed now.: I had to reboot the lowcost switch which obviously got mad( some days ago (while I was on vacation).  A Sorry (for running a "datacenter" without having 24/7 support ;-)    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERk% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:28:24 GMTl9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> * Subject: Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome2 Message-ID: <suAKb.11653$FM.9813@news.cpqcorp.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messageo# news:3FF9D532.711D06AD@istop.com...e > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:L > > OpenVMS provides software partitions (Galaxy) on Alpha.  We also plan toE > > migrate this capability to IPF using the same underlying firmwaret/ > > capabilities that HP-UX will use for fPars.h >  >BC > Would this mean that hardware features will limit VMS to the same2C > functionality that HP-UX has ? Or would VMS still be able to gain" competitove- > advantage over HP-UX ? >f  J We're all one big happy family.  We will run on the same hardware, and useK the same firmware.  The HW and FW are OS agnostic.  Part of our competetive-I advantage is this commonality, and that hardware is retargetable for manyA; OS's.  A customer can buy a standard part, and just add SW.s  J > Also, will you guys be asked to coexist with HP-UX in the same superdome box ?1  K Sure - hard partitioning - same as today.  Soft partitioning may have othermK limitations with regards to concurrent multi-OS use.  I can't really say ift( it will be possible/practical/supported.  H > I would assume that this will help Stallard with his plans to move VMSI > customer to HP-UX over time. As the customer migrates more and more VMSi appsL > to HP-UX, he can then assign more and more CPUs to HP-UX and fewer to VMS.  K Partitioning gives the customer flexibility and choice.  They might need totJ run Windows or Linux or HP-UX applications as well as VMS applications.  AJ *customer* could choose to use this as a consolidation step in a migrationC between any of these OS's - or simply as a way to save floor space.r  J But I can't say that experience with Tru64/Linux/VMS on Alpha - which alsoC can be hard partitioned with multiple-OS's leads me to believe thato. migration is the primary use for partitioning.  = Try to stop seeing anti-VMS conspiracies everywhere you look.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 17:23:31 +0000eO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> * Subject: Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome0 Message-ID: <btequj$ed1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rick Jones wrote:rR > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: > : >>Apart from anything else vPars are based on Cell boards  >  > G > The granularity of nPars is the cell board.  The granularity of vPars  > is the CPU or I/O card etc.n >  > rick jones    / You are right I was confusing vPars with nPars.e   regardsa Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 18:42:33 +1030y/ From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>n? Subject: Re: WASD 8.4.0 now available ... and on Itanium (IA64)d, Message-ID: <3ffa7be8_3@news.chariot.net.au>   Mark Daniel wrote:' >   http://ia64.pi-net.dyndns.net:8000/b( >   https://ia64.pi-net.dyndns.net:4430/  >   http://ia64.vsm.com.au:8000/! >   https://ia64.vsm.com.au:4430/u   Oops, that should be  &    http://ia64.pi-net.dyndns.org:8000/'    https://ia64.pi-net.dyndns.org:4430/w    http://ia64.vsm.com.au:8000/i     https://ia64.vsm.com.au:4430/  F +--------------------------------------------------------------------+E   Mark Daniel                         http://wasd.vsm.com.au/adelaide-F   mailto:Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au (Mark.Daniel@dsto.defence.gov.au);   A pox on the houses of all SPAMers.  Make that two poxes.eF +--------------------------------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 10:26:52 +0000sO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>hM Subject: Re: Well Andrew, "3" count them "3" security patches for VMS in fives0 Message-ID: <bte2hd$2ru$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > In article <btc7f5$b6t$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  > @ >>Many of the CERT advisories for Linux and other OS's or common> >>OS components such as bind for example are published because@ >>a security expert has trawled through the OS/components source? >>reviewed it and found a hole and published the details on theiB >>hole often after suitable discussions with the effected vendors. >  > = >>While OpenVMS sources are available they are not as easy tos? >>get hold of as say the Linux source and anyway no one is thato? >>interested in finding the holes so OpenVMS lacks the external " >>scrutiny accorded to other OS's. >  > D > A goodly portion of VMS security defects that made it to customersC > have been reported due to customer inspection of the source.  OneeB > large set of those were released in a single security MUP before, > Andrew started posting to those newsgroup. > @ > While those involved "suitable discussions with the" a"ffected@ > vendor", the reporter obviously felt that the problem was well< > in hand and felt no need to "go public" to get resolution. > D > VMS customers seem quite content with the security of VMS systems.D > The person most disgusted with VMS security seems to be the person$ > trying to push a Unix approach :-)  = I am not disgusted with OpenVMS security and never have been.   @ I make no claims for Unix security except to observe the obvious> which is that the Unix approach of publishing vunerabilites at> least has that advantage of being more honest than the OpenVMS policy.i  < My disgust is reserved for the people who argue that OpenVMS; has to be more secure than any other OS because it has less-. CERT advisories posted for it than other OS's.  = Disgust because it is dishonest. It also doesn't help OpenVMS 9 much because it makes people who may have valid points to : make about OpenVMS security look like the BS merchants who tout the CERT numbers about.   Regardse Andrew Harrison-   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2004 05:40:06 -0800G( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)M Subject: Re: Well Andrew, "3" count them "3" security patches for VMS in five < Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0401060540.c6aafda@posting.google.com>  h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<pHDs4F8$EuqD@eisner.encompasserve.org>... > In article <btc7f5$b6t$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  ; listen Andrew, VMS security mup kits are rarely issued, and.8 don't confuse ucx flaws with VMS os and kernel flaws ...7 no one is hiding anything, except you, and you know the-: truth is VMS has had 13 cert advisories compared to 1000's8 for unix/linux/windoze convuluted garbage ... that's the5 fact ... so quit trolling and put away your water gun4- cause the black helicopters aren't coming ...a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:01:18 +0000oO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>aM Subject: Re: Well Andrew, "3" count them "3" security patches for VMS in fived0 Message-ID: <btem4e$crl$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote: j > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<pHDs4F8$EuqD@eisner.encompasserve.org>... >  >>In article <btc7f5$b6t$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  > = > listen Andrew, VMS security mup kits are rarely issued, ands: > don't confuse ucx flaws with VMS os and kernel flaws ...9 > no one is hiding anything, except you, and you know the < > truth is VMS has had 13 cert advisories compared to 1000's: > for unix/linux/windoze convuluted garbage ... that's the7 > fact ... so quit trolling and put away your water gun / > cause the black helicopters aren't coming ...i  6 Bob security holes in ucx are just as problematical as) VMS OS holes, don't get confused by that.n  9 Claiming that the IP stack isn't really part of VMS whileo< counting IP stack advisories for other OS's in your BS stats2 only serves to illustrate that you are just BSing.  : Adding the CERTS for all the other OS's, UNIX, Windows etc< and comparing them with one OS VMS again only serves to show; that you are just BSsing. In case you hadn't noticed single-= systems generally run one OS and are therefore only vunerable  to the exploits for that OS.  @ Claiming that TCPWARE etc are any better as you almost certainlyC will is also BS, you misslead the group about TCPWARES vunerability"D to a number of exploits an the patch reports caught you out (again).  = A troll Bob is someone who keeps making BS claims that he/shei4 cannot justify in an attempt to generate discussion.  B You have consistently shown yourself to be incapable of supportingC your claims instead as with most trolls you layer wilder and wildero. claims on top of allready disproven arguments.  < Give up you are only making yourself and OpenVMS look silly.   Regardsl Andrew Harrisonc   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 12:57:27 GMTs- From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@hp.com>t% Subject: Re: WTD:  VAX  memory sticksn& Message-ID: <3FFACCD5.6321AB74@hp.com>   Phaeton wrote: > $ > Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:G > > < > The MicroVAX 3100 models 30, 40, 80, 85, 90, 95, 96, and 98 alli > > < use the sameB > > < > memory SIMMs.  These SIMMs were produced in 4 MB and 16 MB > > < versions.  The same I > > < > memory is used in the VAXstation 4000 models 60, 90, 90A, and 96.e > >sK > > Are the SIMMs in the Alphastations the same?  I think I have a bunch off
 > > those. > M >         Don't know, but I doubt. Tha Alphas are newer by quite a few years.i > N > > <       Yes, I see 4 x 4 MB sticks in the slots, plus the 8 MB onboard oneI > > <       as you say, that makes 24 MB. True, it runs OK, I have a 1 GB:2 > > <       Quantum disk with VAX VMS 7.2-1 on it.M > > <       I have some other disks, an RZ28 for example, but I still have tooN > > <       figure out the proper SCSI termination, and the ID-s of the disks.J > > <       I still would like to have a bit more memory, maybe some 16 MB" > > <       sticks would be ideal.G > > <       I have a handful of 72-pin ones if someone wants to swap...) > >dB > > Don't use anything bigger than RZ26 (1GB) for the system drive > J >         I am aware of that; I have a VAXstation 3100 as well. I will tryG >         to use the bigger disks as data disks ( although the space is1. >         cramped inside this MVAX 3100 box. ) > H >                                                         Cheers,  Csaba > L >  -------------------------------------------------------------------------J >   CSABA I. HARANGOZO  |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|  csabah(at)zipworld(dot)com(dot)auL >  -------------------------------------------------------------------------= >    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:L    ? Also, IIRC 24M is too little for any of the 5.x TCPIP versions,lG which are liable to freeze at odd moments unless fed sufficient memory.    Mike -- YE ---------------------------------------------------------------------TE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.N? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*.F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------r -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----i Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------b   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 10:25:53 -0500"# From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com> = Subject: Re: [OT] Top posting (was: CREATE & DELETE /MAILBOX) + Message-ID: <3FFAD381.A325EF02@adldata.com>l   JF Mezei wrote:r >  > Didier Morandi wrote:tP > > Larry, you perfectly know that 90% of the readers prefer top posting becauseT > > they are interested to read the answer to the question, without having to scrollJ > > down the question they just read the click before to reach the answer. > N > 99% of the readers prefer to have a SHORT context at the top followed by theG > answer below. You want to set the context BEFORE you read the answer.  > M > The issue isn't top posting, it is making sure people learn to include only  > the necessary quote.O > If you include just a couple of lines, you do not need to "scroll down to seer > the answer". > O > I find it extremely surprising that folks on comp.os.vms, who should normally-O > have lots of experience with the net and not be windows weenies wouldn't know-4 > these very basic things about usenet and/or email. > L > BTW, if you read up the original NNTP  RFCs you'll notice that VMS figures > prominently in the text.  J When I follow a news thread, I already know the pertinent prior contents. J I only want to see the latest information in my view window without having
 to scroll.  J Viewing only the latest message, you really do not know what is going on. L The latest message is NOT always the most important message and information G is often clipped out and the 'clipper' might have eliminated something b useful.   K If you are using google, it can be worse. When viewing a thread of message, G many long ones are truncated with a clickable to see the whole message.   F I would like a news reader that optionally displays messages starting I at the bottom. Or better yet, it can 'know' what is newest and only show RG that with the rest hidden but expandable like the little 'plus box' in TC the mozilla news reader that lets you switch between seeing headers ! and just seeing the subject line.d   sol gongolau   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.012 ************************