0 INFO-VAX	Fri, 09 Jan 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 16      Contents:' Re: <CR><LF> Not in FTP Transfered File ) Alpha macro (64) and the OTS$... routines ! Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus? ! Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus? ! Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus? ! Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus? ! Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus?  RE: Bugcheck - PCAPVCM? + Re: Captain Instantwhip needs a first mate! + Re: Captain Instantwhip needs a first mate! + RE: Captain Instantwhip needs a first mate! + Re: Captain Instantwhip needs a first mate! ! Re: Could OpenVMS-Athlon ever be? ! Re: Could OpenVMS-Athlon ever be? ! Re: Could OpenVMS-Athlon ever be? ! Re: Could OpenVMS-Athlon ever be? ! Re: Could OpenVMS-Athlon ever be? 4 Re: DCPS and LPD and Xerox Document Centre printers?4 Re: DCPS and LPD and Xerox Document Centre printers? Re: ds10l blowout  Re: ds10l blowout  Re: ds10l blowout  Re: ds10l blowout  Re: ds10l blowout  Re: ds10l blowout  Re: ds10l blowout  Re: ds10l blowout  Re: ds10l blowout  Re: ds10l blowout  Re: ds10l blowout  Re: ds10l blowout  Re: ds10l blowout  Re: end-search next sentence Re: end-search next sentence, Re: Floating point arithmetic support in DCL, RE: Floating point arithmetic support in DCL Re: GNU build tools ??& Hobbyist Layered Product license PAKs?* Re: Hobbyist Layered Product license PAKs?* Re: Hobbyist Layered Product license PAKs?* Re: Hobbyist Layered Product license PAKs?* Re: Hobbyist Layered Product license PAKs?* Re: Hobbyist Layered Product license PAKs?* Re: Hobbyist Layered Product license PAKs?* Re: Hobbyist Layered Product license PAKs?3 Re: How to determine which mirrored disk has errors 3 RE: How to determine which mirrored disk has errors 3 Re: How to determine which mirrored disk has errors # how to flush a file opened by DCL ? ' Re: how to flush a file opened by DCL ? ' Re: how to flush a file opened by DCL ?   Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)  Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)  Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)  Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)  Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)  Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)  Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)  RE: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)  Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)  Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)  Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)  Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)  Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)  Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)  RE: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)  Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)  Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)" Re: hype (was: password questions)" Re: hype (was: password questions)" Re: hype (was: password questions)" Re: hype (was: password questions)! I just scored an AlphaServer 800! % Re: I just scored an AlphaServer 800! % Re: I just scored an AlphaServer 800! % Re: I just scored an AlphaServer 800! % Re: I just scored an AlphaServer 800! % Re: I just scored an AlphaServer 800! % Re: I just scored an AlphaServer 800! & Re: Is VMS 7.1-2 as stable as 7.1-1H2? Re: My Holiday Wishes  Re: My Holiday Wishes  Re: MySQL 4.0.17 for OpenVMS New kernel LINUX kernel bug / Non-WS Process Quotas not in Performance Manual 3 Re: Non-WS Process Quotas not in Performance Manual 3 Re: Non-WS Process Quotas not in Performance Manual , RE: number of ethernet adapters in a cluster, Re: number of ethernet adapters in a cluster Re: OpenVMS Certifications Re: OpenVMS Certifications Re: OpenVMS Certifications Re: OpenVMS Certifications Re: OpenVMS Certifications Re: OpenVMS Certifications Re: OpenVMS Certifications Re: OpenVMS Certifications Re: OpenVMS Certifications Re: OpenVMS Certifications Re: OpenVMS Certifications Re: OpenVMS Certifications Re: OpenVMS CertificationsP Oracle Rdb on GS1280 with 7.3-2 exceeds 1 million transactions per minute using , Re: OT: What M$ and IBM know that hp doesn't, Re: OT: What M$ and IBM know that hp doesn't Re: Problem with CSWS V2 Re: QTD-30 SCSI card= Searchlist behaviour differences between DCL/RMS and CRTL/EXE A Re: Searchlist behaviour differences between DCL/RMS and CRTL/EXE A Re: Searchlist behaviour differences between DCL/RMS and CRTL/EXE A Re: Searchlist behaviour differences between DCL/RMS and CRTL/EXE A Re: Searchlist behaviour differences between DCL/RMS and CRTL/EXE 8 Re: Secure Web Server Version 2.0 available for download8 Re: Secure Web Server Version 2.0 available for download8 Re: Secure Web Server Version 2.0 available for download8 Re: Secure Web Server Version 2.0 available for download< supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM@ Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM@ Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM@ Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM@ Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM@ Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM@ Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM@ Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM@ Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM@ Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM@ Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM@ Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM9 Re: Sybase supports Apple OS X - VMS still dead at Sybase 9 Re: Sybase supports Apple OS X - VMS still dead at Sybase 9 Re: Sybase supports Apple OS X - VMS still dead at Sybase 9 Re: Sybase supports Apple OS X - VMS still dead at Sybase  Re: SYS$OUTPUT ? Re: SYS$OUTPUT ? Re: SYS$OUTPUT ? Re: SYS$OUTPUT ?. Technical reasons against porting VMS to IA-322 Re: Technical reasons against porting VMS to IA-322 Re: Technical reasons against porting VMS to IA-322 Re: Technical reasons against porting VMS to IA-32< The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems' Using DCL for cgi-bin with SWS (Apache) + Re: Using DCL for cgi-bin with SWS (Apache) + Re: Using DCL for cgi-bin with SWS (Apache) + Re: Using DCL for cgi-bin with SWS (Apache)  Re: Vaxstation some question... ( VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?, Re: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?, Re: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?! Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome ! Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome ! Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome ! Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome ! Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome ! Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome ! Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome ! Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome ! Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome ! Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome ! Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome ! Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome ! Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome $ Re: VMS to VMS copying between Nodes$ Re: VMS to VMS copying between Nodes$ Re: VMS to VMS copying between NodesD Re: Well Andrew, "3" count them "3" security patches for VMS in fiveD Re: Well Andrew, "3" count them "3" security patches for VMS in five3 Where to get layered product software for hobbyist? 9 Re: [Survey] Your best choice for an X Client on Lostdows 5 [Survey] Your best choice for an X Client on Lostdows 9 Re: [Survey] Your best choice for an X Client on Lostdows 9 Re: [Survey] Your best choice for an X Client on Lostdows 9 Re: [Survey] Your best choice for an X Client on Lostdows 9 Re: [Survey] Your best choice for an X Client on Lostdows 9 Re: [Survey] Your best choice for an X Client on Lostdows 9 Re: [Survey] Your best choice for an X Client on Lostdows   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:55:59 -0500+ From: "David Pikcilingis" <dcpik@bosbc.com> 0 Subject: Re: <CR><LF> Not in FTP Transfered File0 Message-ID: <Xb6dnRuG4e8R8mCiRVn-tA@comcast.com>   > >>>-----Original Message----- < > >>>From: Chip Smithson [mailto:csmithson@washoehealth.com]. > >>>Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 9:23 AM > >>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com5 > >>>Subject: Re: <CR><LF> Not in FTP Transfered File  > >>>  > >>> C > >>>Anyone? Having problem still and timing is becoming critical..  > > E > > Or to use built-in VMS tools, transfer files as a backup save set D > > and then manually set the characteristics of the save set on theE > > target system.  There are SET FILE/ATTRIBUTE ways to do this, but  > > I still prefer:  > > 6 > > $ BACKUP SYS$LOGIN:LOGIN.COM REAL_SAVESET.BCK/SAVEF > > $ COPY/OVERLAY SAVESET_FROM_FTP.BCK 'F$SEARCH("REAL_SAVESET.BCK")' > I > Of course when you have solved your critical problem you should go back I > and investigate your use of FTP, since proper VMS-to-VMS FTP would pass % > along the RMS file characteristics.   I Was it a VMS to VMS transfer?  This would be a problem is the target was,  for example, a UNIX system. L Boston Business Computing produces Vbackup to restore VMS BACKUP savesets onH UNIX systems.  There are the usual BACKUP options available to determineJ what the characteristics of the restored file will be.  Additional details* can be found at www.bosbc.com/vbackup.html   David Pikcilingis  Boston Business Computing    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 13:03:11 -0800 * From: denny.rich@swagelok.com (Denny Rich)2 Subject: Alpha macro (64) and the OTS$... routines< Message-ID: <d28306e.0401081303.28e963d4@posting.google.com>  > We are researching a COBOL problem. There is a difference in aB comparision (IF statement) between a program compiled on VAX COBOL9 (V7.1, Cobol T5.4), and Alpha Cobol (V7.3-1, Cobol V2.7).   C While researching this, we looked at the machine code.  On the VAX, > the compiler sets up a CMPC5 instruction, followed by a BLEQU,D comparing the data to ^x39 (digit 9). On the Alpha, the code sets upB what looks like a comparison to a ^d32 (space) but it does this by calling some OTS$ routines.   C We can make the Alpha work like the VAX if we compile on Alpha with  "/convert=leading_blanks".  D All well and good, but we are nervous about not understanding WHY it works.  E In the Alpha machine code, we see calls to one of two routines to set 9 up the compare: OTS$FETCH_U_OPN0_1 (with /noconvert), and ; OTS$FETCH_U_OPN0_1_B (with /convert=leading). Then it calls 8 OTS$CMP_LE_DEC_1 in both cases to do the actual compare.  D Does anybody have any documentation on what are the Inputs, Outputs,' and Functions of these 3 OTS$ routines?    Grateful for any assistance...   denny    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 19:52:41 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>* Subject: Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus?6 Message-ID: <3FFCB7E9.D68B5BE7@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:J > > If you don't need DECnet, then just install Phase-IV and never use it. > L > DECNET has advantages even on a single node system. Consider "FLIGHT" on aO > workstation. It needs to talk to the flight server vioa decnet even if on the  > same node.   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > D > As I'm sure someone else must have mentioned, it rather depends on8 > whether you even NEED DECnet at all (VMS doesn't), ...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 03:58:28 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> * Subject: Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus?/ Message-ID: <vvplb4n750emc4@corp.supernews.com>   + JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:  : "David J. Dachtera" wrote:I :> If you don't need DECnet, then just install Phase-IV and never use it.   L : DECNET has advantages even on a single node system. Consider "FLIGHT" on aO : workstation. It needs to talk to the flight server vioa decnet even if on the  : same node.   Plus, you can SET HOST 0.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 23:38:42 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>* Subject: Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus?) Message-ID: <3FFCDEB8.39ED97E4@istop.com>    Z wrote: > Plus, you can SET HOST 0.   ' Or more useful: SET HOST 0/LOG=log.file    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 11:01:43 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG* Subject: Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus?0 Message-ID: <00A2B935.67751702@SendSpamHere.ORG>  V In article <3FFCDEB8.39ED97E4@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:	 >Z wrote:  >> Plus, you can SET HOST 0. > ( >Or more useful: SET HOST 0/LOG=log.file  " $ TELNET [/LOG=log.file] localhost  0 $ SET HOST/LAT [/LOG=log.file] node-service-name  J These will accomplish similar results.  I don't see how SET HOST 0 is any 2 argument for or against installing DECnet IV or V. --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.  --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 06:22:22 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>* Subject: Re: Any downsides to DECnet-Plus?) Message-ID: <3FFD3D34.752AD956@istop.com>   ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: $ > $ TELNET [/LOG=log.file] localhost > 2 > $ SET HOST/LAT [/LOG=log.file] node-service-name > K > These will accomplish similar results.  I don't see how SET HOST 0 is any 4 > argument for or against installing DECnet IV or V.  N But on top of SET HOST, DECNET also gives you a neat node name, network tasks,8 proxy access to network objects and many other features.    J The proxy access allows one to start tasks on a different username without requiring mega privileges.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:27:27 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>   Subject: RE: Bugcheck - PCAPVCM?R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB1E125D@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----= > From: Keith Parris [mailto:keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com]=20  > Sent: January 7, 2004 1:54 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com " > Subject: Re: Bugcheck - PCAPVCM? >=20; > "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in=20 6 > message news:<OZOdnQeTZZNXvGeiRVn-hw@comcast.com>...A > > Management is, of course, determined to get rid of "legacy=20  > systems" so=20J > > they are busy migrating us to the IBM Mainframe for the application=20/ > > and Solaris for the Oracle databases. . . .  >=202 > And the IBM Mainframe isn't considered legacy??? >=20A > But then "Legacy" is just a pejorative term used to describe=20 = > anything someone wants to be viewed as old-fashioned and=20  > thereby get rid of.  >=20@ > "Proprietary" is another pejorative term.  It's ironic (and=20B > amusing to me as a VMS fan) to see the term Proprietary being=20? > applied to UNIX versions like Solaris, in light of Linux. =20 A > The same weapon UNIX used against other operating systems is=20 0 > now being turned against it by the Linux fans. >=20? > So in a year or two there'll probably a revolution at your=20 @ > site to get rid of the costly and proprietary Solaris/SPARC=20; > systems and run Oracle instead on Linux using low-cost=20 B > industry-standard hardware.  So you're wasting your time with=20: > that SPARC box and should be learning Linux instead. :-) >=20  	 Keith,=20    Re: what is legacy ..   C Another interesting comment - now that Microsoft Windows NT4 is (or F about to be) end-of-life, I have started seeing more and more Customer9 and press article references to "legacy" Windows servers.    :-)    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 20:27:19 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>4 Subject: Re: Captain Instantwhip needs a first mate!6 Message-ID: <3FFCC007.9C96F4EA@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > ; > will be developing in a synergy/dbl DIBOL environment ... 9 > anyone interested in joining the smoothest sailing ship  > in the world?  :)   ; I'd talk to your boss about working remotely on contract...    (You're in OH and I'm in IL.)    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 05:50:46 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)4 Subject: Re: Captain Instantwhip needs a first mate!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0401080550.1b8cfb80@posting.google.com>   ~ "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message news:<3FFCC007.9C96F4EA@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>... > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > > = > > will be developing in a synergy/dbl DIBOL environment ... ; > > anyone interested in joining the smoothest sailing ship  > > in the world?  :)  > = > I'd talk to your boss about working remotely on contract...  >  > (You're in OH and I'm in IL.)   ; no contracts ... no relocations ... must have 1-3 years vms - on alpha or vax and dibol or cobol skills ...    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 11:32:39 -0500/ From: "Hank Vander Waal" <hvanderw@comcast.net> 4 Subject: RE: Captain Instantwhip needs a first mate!? Message-ID: <NHEHKAGLFGJGFJENEGDMCEDACJAA.hvanderw@comcast.net>    Bob, 	contact me of list please hvanderw at comcast dot net    Thanks Hank   -----Original Message-----/ From: Bob Ceculski [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com] * Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 10:33 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 Subject: Captain Instantwhip needs a first mate!    9 will be developing in a synergy/dbl DIBOL environment ... 7 anyone interested in joining the smoothest sailing ship  in the world?  :)    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 13:43:12 -0800 . From: al5vf03p02@sneakemail.com (William Webb)4 Subject: Re: Captain Instantwhip needs a first mate!= Message-ID: <d5ce4b06.0401081343.313ffbc9@posting.google.com>   ( Hey!  This isn't THAT kind of newsgroup!   (just kidding, good luck.)   WWWebb   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:29:01 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>* Subject: Re: Could OpenVMS-Athlon ever be?) Message-ID: <3FFC882C.4FD7A2EF@istop.com>    David Froble wrote: M > The AMD chip is still x-86, and there isn't any MACRO-32 compiler for x-86,   @ I don't think it would be that hard to port Macro32 to the 8086.   P  possible BLISS compiler for x-86 is used solely for a Fortran compiler, and DEC- > C is far from any of the x-86 C compilers.    M Remember that Carly/Curly donated all the compiler people to Intel and VMS is P now dependant on the goodwill of Intel to port the most recent compilers to VMS.  ) > It would take a substantial commitment.   H It would takle a commitment to VMS. Once they decide to push VMS againstM Linux/Windows, I think that the money would flow and there would be help from P AMD (unless Palmer succeeds in remotely preventing VMS from running on the 8086.  I What is more likely to happen is that Intel will produce its 64 bit 8086, L which will allow the ex-DEC compiler people at Intel to provide VMS with the 8086 compilers.   . Carly/Curly really locked themselves to Intel.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 20:21:44 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>* Subject: Re: Could OpenVMS-Athlon ever be?6 Message-ID: <3FFCBEB8.CBE2211A@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Tom Linden wrote:  > F > I have 7.3 running on an Athlon (with emulator and Linux in between)8 > on a 600 MHz system runs about the same as VAX 4000/90  4 You're talking OpenVMS-VAX on a VAX emulator on AMD.  - I'm talking OpenVMS-Athlon (per the subject).   C All the same, Charon-VAX is really great at preserving VAX software  investments...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 20:22:21 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>* Subject: Re: Could OpenVMS-Athlon ever be?6 Message-ID: <3FFCBEDD.F59E7C77@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Kaleb Pederson wrote:  > N > That sounds really interesting!  What are you using for an emulator?  Do you > have a home page for it?   Google for SIMH and Charon-VAX.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 20:23:30 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>* Subject: Re: Could OpenVMS-Athlon ever be?6 Message-ID: <3FFCBF22.85A58E5E@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >  > Still trolling?    Nope. Ice fishing!   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 20:28:44 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>* Subject: Re: Could OpenVMS-Athlon ever be?4 Message-ID: <04jLb.11907$Pz3.10396@news.cpqcorp.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  > David Froble wrote:  > M >>The AMD chip is still x-86, and there isn't any MACRO-32 compiler for x-86,  >  > B > I don't think it would be that hard to port Macro32 to the 8086. >   R >  possible BLISS compiler for x-86 is used solely for a Fortran compiler, and DEC > - >>C is far from any of the x-86 C compilers.   >  > O > Remember that Carly/Curly donated all the compiler people to Intel and VMS is R > now dependant on the goodwill of Intel to port the most recent compilers to VMS. >  > ) >>It would take a substantial commitment.  >  > J > It would takle a commitment to VMS. Once they decide to push VMS againstO > Linux/Windows, I think that the money would flow and there would be help from R > AMD (unless Palmer succeeds in remotely preventing VMS from running on the 8086. > K > What is more likely to happen is that Intel will produce its 64 bit 8086, N > which will allow the ex-DEC compiler people at Intel to provide VMS with the > 8086 compilers.  > 0 > Carly/Curly really locked themselves to Intel.  1 I really don't know where to start on this one...   G - Porting Macro-32 to 8086 would be very difficult.  The biggest issue  H the lack of sufficient registers on 8086.  Think of Macro32 source code G has having several 'predeclared variables' named R0, R1, etc. that are  C global to all routines.  On Alpha and Itanium, there are sufficent  I hardware registers for all of that to work although the Calling Standard  I on OpenVMS I64 makes it a little interesting.  On 8086, I really have no  G clue how to efficiently generate code for Macro32 routines that pass 8  B 'registers' between each other (or between Macro32 and BLISS or C H routines) for instance.  Macro32's use of GEM is unique compared to the I other GEM-based compilers.  We have our own code generation and just use  F GEM for object file writing, peepholing, instruction scheduling, etc. I The fact that there exists a current 8086 GEM doesn't help Macro32 much.  @   For instance, for the port to Itanium, we had to gut the code B generation modules from the OpenVMS Alpha compiler and completely ? reimplement them for Itanium at a cost of several person-years.   H - Not all of the compiler people are at Intel.  I'm not.  We still have I engineers to support GEM and our front-ends on all their current targets  I as needed.  Intel isn't porting any compilers to OpenVMS.  We are taking  F some compilers from Intel (C++ right now, C in the future, Fortran is E somewhat unique) and WE are porting/adapting them to OpenVMS.  Also,  E OpenVMS customers require more than just C, C++, Fortran,  There are  > COBOL, Pascal, and BASIC customers as well as BLISS customers ? internally.  I know that even the current 8086 GEM wouldn't be  G sufficient for those compilers on traditional 8086 targets.  More work   would be needed.  F - Even if Intel produced some sort of mythical 64-bit 8086, again, is G Intel going to give us a BLISS or any other OpenVMS compiler?  I think  F not.  For our compilers that are GEM-based, Intel isn't going to do a @ 64-bit 8086 GEM target.  That would all be work we'd have to do.   --   John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 11:14:05 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <My.Full.Name@intel.com>= Subject: Re: DCPS and LPD and Xerox Document Centre printers? + Message-ID: <btka5u$uli$1@news01.intel.com>    Paul Anderson wrote:  E > In article <3ffbecf0$0$177$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>, Bernhard  > Fabricius <bf@dmu.dk> wrote: >  > A >>Has anyone manged to get DCPS to print to Xerox Document Centre  >>printers, and if so, how?  >  > I > I'd like to know, too!  The Xerox Document Centre printers are the only G > printers we know of that don't work with DCPS LPD.  The reason is the C > disparity between the LPD RFC and the Real World.  We believe the E > problem is the same as the one that prevents DCPS V2.3 from working @ > with remote LPD queues.  We hope to correct this in DCPS V2.4.  A I'm both disappointed and glad to see this posted.  It'll save me C a good deal of time, since I have (had?) a project to get DCPS V2.3 ? working with our Xerox Document Centre 440's.  (We're currently ? using PrintKit, which is a fine product, but we'd prefer to use : just a single product for all printers, and DCPS does some* formatting that is missing from PrintKit.)  @ Paul, do you have a rough estimate when V2.4 might be far enough along to field test?   	Thanks, Ken --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 20:42:23 GMT * From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>= Subject: Re: DCPS and LPD and Xerox Document Centre printers? 5 Message-ID: <080120041542584263%paul.anderson@hp.com>   9 In article <btka5u$uli$1@news01.intel.com>, Ken Fairfield  <My.Full.Name@intel.com> wrote:   B > Paul, do you have a rough estimate when V2.4 might be far enough > along to field test?  C We have scheduled release for July, so if we stay on track, a field 2 test might be available between now and then.  :-)   April?  May?  > We're working on completing the Itanium version of V2.3 first.   Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 20:57:40 -0500% From: "DAVID TURNER" <DAVID@HPAQ.NET>  Subject: Re: ds10l blowout/ Message-ID: <vvpe8pqhr4p407@news.supernews.com>   $ is import duty that high in brasil ?  " shipping to S.America is only $140     dt  ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message 7 news:f30679fb.0401071027.3d0030f8@posting.google.com... 2 > "DAVID TURNER" <DAVID@HPAQ.NET> wrote in message+ news:<vvmg55p2s3a74e@news.supernews.com>...  > > ds10l 466mhz > > 256mb compaq memory  > > 30GB IDE 7200rpm disk # > > dual serial port (com1 console)  > > parallel port  > > usb port > > 1 open 32/64 bit pci slot  > > , > > Only $595 for COMP.OS.VMS customers only > > G > > (A license is required to run VMS - get one at www.montagar.com for  hobbyist > > use) > > & > > One hell of a hobbyist system !!!! >  > A > Too far for me ! The price will be multiplied by 4 with taxes !  > 	 > Regards  >  > FC   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 05:39:28 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: ds10l blowout0 Message-ID: <k26Lb.9410$Tz1.2169@news.chello.at>  n In article <f30679fb.0401071027.3d0030f8@posting.google.com>, fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) writes:] >"DAVID TURNER" <DAVID@HPAQ.NET> wrote in message news:<vvmg55p2s3a74e@news.supernews.com>...  >> ds10l 466mhz  >> 256mb compaq memory >> 30GB IDE 7200rpm disk" >> dual serial port (com1 console) >> parallel port >> usb port  >> 1 open 32/64 bit pci slot >>  + >> Only $595 for COMP.OS.VMS customers only  >>  O >> (A license is required to run VMS - get one at www.montagar.com for hobbyist  >> use)  >>  % >> One hell of a hobbyist system !!!!  > A >Too far for me ! The price will be multiplied by 4 with taxes !    C Then go to EBAY. Last year they were used to be sold there for $300    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 02:06:50 -0800 . From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) Subject: Re: ds10l blowout= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0401080206.67ad49e4@posting.google.com>   \ "DAVID TURNER" <DAVID@HPAQ.NET> wrote in message news:<vvpe8pqhr4p407@news.supernews.com>...& > is import duty that high in brasil ? > $ > shipping to S.America is only $140 >     7 The shipping is cheap but the import taxes are high  !  8 I said about 4 times, including shipping etc... but Its+ about 2.5 - 3 times the price in dollars !  E A DS-25 (2 CPUs x 8 GB + HBA) is costing here about US$ 160.000,00 !   Whats is the price in USA?    Regards    FC         > dt > = > "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message 9 > news:f30679fb.0401071027.3d0030f8@posting.google.com... 4 > > "DAVID TURNER" <DAVID@HPAQ.NET> wrote in message. >  news:<vvmg55p2s3a74e@news.supernews.com>... > > > ds10l 466mhz > > > 256mb compaq memory  > > > 30GB IDE 7200rpm disk % > > > dual serial port (com1 console)  > > > parallel port  > > > usb port > > > 1 open 32/64 bit pci slot  > > > . > > > Only $595 for COMP.OS.VMS customers only > > > I > > > (A license is required to run VMS - get one at www.montagar.com for  >  hobbyist 
 > > > use) > > > ( > > > One hell of a hobbyist system !!!! > >  > > C > > Too far for me ! The price will be multiplied by 4 with taxes !  > >  > > Regards  > >  > > FC   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 07:37:10 -0500; From: "Island Computers USA" <dbturner@islandco.com.nospam>  Subject: Re: ds10l blowout/ Message-ID: <vvqjgu81k3eb4d@news.supernews.com>    With 1 Year warranty?    And no memory disk etc...     I know our deal is good here !!!   David     C "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message * news:k26Lb.9410$Tz1.2169@news.chello.at...? > In article <f30679fb.0401071027.3d0030f8@posting.google.com>, 0 fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) writes:3 > >"DAVID TURNER" <DAVID@HPAQ.NET> wrote in message + news:<vvmg55p2s3a74e@news.supernews.com>...  > >> ds10l 466mhz  > >> 256mb compaq memory > >> 30GB IDE 7200rpm disk$ > >> dual serial port (com1 console) > >> parallel port
 > >> usb port  > >> 1 open 32/64 bit pci slot > >>- > >> Only $595 for COMP.OS.VMS customers only  > >>H > >> (A license is required to run VMS - get one at www.montagar.com for hobbyist	 > >> use)  > >>' > >> One hell of a hobbyist system !!!!  > > B > >Too far for me ! The price will be multiplied by 4 with taxes ! > E > Then go to EBAY. Last year they were used to be sold there for $300  >  > --   > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER ' > Network and OpenVMS system specialist  > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 07:36:34 -0500; From: "Island Computers USA" <dbturner@islandco.com.nospam>  Subject: Re: ds10l blowout/ Message-ID: <vvqjfqjq1u7gfa@news.supernews.com>   L Well, we just sold three fully configured dual CPU systems with licenses for $32,000 each? They had Dataram memory though (saved about $12000 buying that)   5 Seems Brasil is a market we're gonna have to get into    David     ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message 7 news:f30679fb.0401080206.67ad49e4@posting.google.com... 2 > "DAVID TURNER" <DAVID@HPAQ.NET> wrote in message+ news:<vvpe8pqhr4p407@news.supernews.com>... ( > > is import duty that high in brasil ? > > & > > shipping to S.America is only $140 > >  >  > 8 > The shipping is cheap but the import taxes are high  !: > I said about 4 times, including shipping etc... but Its, > about 2.5 - 3 times the price in dollars !F > A DS-25 (2 CPUs x 8 GB + HBA) is costing here about US$ 160.000,00 ! > Whats is the price in USA?a >t	 > Regardsr >i > FC >  >  >n > > dt > >e? > > "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messageo; > > news:f30679fb.0401071027.3d0030f8@posting.google.com...o6 > > > "DAVID TURNER" <DAVID@HPAQ.NET> wrote in message0 > >  news:<vvmg55p2s3a74e@news.supernews.com>... > > > > ds10l 466mhz > > > > 256mb compaq memoryn > > > > 30GB IDE 7200rpm disk ' > > > > dual serial port (com1 console)e > > > > parallel portt > > > > usb port! > > > > 1 open 32/64 bit pci slote > > > >p0 > > > > Only $595 for COMP.OS.VMS customers only > > > > K > > > > (A license is required to run VMS - get one at www.montagar.com fore
 > >  hobbyist  > > > > use) > > > >D* > > > > One hell of a hobbyist system !!!! > > >s > > >wE > > > Too far for me ! The price will be multiplied by 4 with taxes !s > > >w
 > > > Regards  > > >  > > > FC   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 10:40:49 -0800 . From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) Subject: Re: ds10l blowout= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0401081040.4ec4c1dc@posting.google.com>   r "Island Computers USA" <dbturner@islandco.com.nospam> wrote in message news:<vvqjfqjq1u7gfa@news.supernews.com>...N > Well, we just sold three fully configured dual CPU systems with licenses for > $32,000 eachA > They had Dataram memory though (saved about $12000 buying that)c > 7 > Seems Brasil is a market we're gonna have to get intoo >  > Davidd >     B May be ... but HP/Compaq used to have a segmentation of resellers.A May be you could not sell to the company I am working for becausew they are "almost" exclusive !   J Here there is the segmentation for reseller specialization (more or less):K mining or oil or banking/financial or education or etc ...! It was this wayl3 in CPQ time ! I dont know if changed in HP times !    K Too expensive ! May be the Free Trade Area could help lowering the taxes ! P  H You should not look only for Brazil . There are other "strong" economies3 here.. Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Peru, Venezuela ! P   Regards    FC (  i= > "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message(9 > news:f30679fb.0401080206.67ad49e4@posting.google.com... 4 > > "DAVID TURNER" <DAVID@HPAQ.NET> wrote in message. >  news:<vvpe8pqhr4p407@news.supernews.com>...* > > > is import duty that high in brasil ? > > >e( > > > shipping to S.America is only $140 > > >s > >  > >i: > > The shipping is cheap but the import taxes are high  !< > > I said about 4 times, including shipping etc... but Its. > > about 2.5 - 3 times the price in dollars !H > > A DS-25 (2 CPUs x 8 GB + HBA) is costing here about US$ 160.000,00 ! > > Whats is the price in USA?u > >o > > Regardse > >8 > > FC > >u > >o > >n > > > dt > > > A > > > "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messagee= > > > news:f30679fb.0401071027.3d0030f8@posting.google.com...e8 > > > > "DAVID TURNER" <DAVID@HPAQ.NET> wrote in message. >  news:<vvmg55p2s3a74e@news.supernews.com>... > > > > > ds10l 466mhz > > > > > 256mb compaq memory  > > > > > 30GB IDE 7200rpm diskP) > > > > > dual serial port (com1 console)a > > > > > parallel port  > > > > > usb port# > > > > > 1 open 32/64 bit pci slott	 > > > > > 2 > > > > > Only $595 for COMP.OS.VMS customers only	 > > > > >nM > > > > > (A license is required to run VMS - get one at www.montagar.com for  >  hobbyistf > > > > > use)	 > > > > >f, > > > > > One hell of a hobbyist system !!!! > > > >f > > > > G > > > > Too far for me ! The price will be multiplied by 4 with taxes !f > > > >  > > > > Regards2 > > > >.
 > > > > FC   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:01:06 -0500; From: "Island Computers USA" <dbturner@islandco.com.nospam>e Subject: Re: ds10l blowout/ Message-ID: <vvra1lp6ed582c@news.supernews.com>s   good to know   dt; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messageS7 news:f30679fb.0401081040.4ec4c1dc@posting.google.com...eH > "Island Computers USA" <dbturner@islandco.com.nospam> wrote in message+ news:<vvqjfqjq1u7gfa@news.supernews.com>...dL > > Well, we just sold three fully configured dual CPU systems with licenses forl > > $32,000 eachC > > They had Dataram memory though (saved about $12000 buying that)b > >e9 > > Seems Brasil is a market we're gonna have to get into  > >o	 > > Davida > >o >o >oD > May be ... but HP/Compaq used to have a segmentation of resellers.C > May be you could not sell to the company I am working for becausep > they are "almost" exclusive !S >SL > Here there is the segmentation for reseller specialization (more or less):I > mining or oil or banking/financial or education or etc ...! It was thise wayp4 > in CPQ time ! I dont know if changed in HP times ! > L > Too expensive ! May be the Free Trade Area could help lowering the taxes ! >oJ > You should not look only for Brazil . There are other "strong" economies4 > here.. Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Peru, Venezuela ! >n	 > Regardso >f > FC >S? > > "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messageS; > > news:f30679fb.0401080206.67ad49e4@posting.google.com...@6 > > > "DAVID TURNER" <DAVID@HPAQ.NET> wrote in message0 > >  news:<vvpe8pqhr4p407@news.supernews.com>..., > > > > is import duty that high in brasil ? > > > >o* > > > > shipping to S.America is only $140 > > > >e > > >t > > > < > > > The shipping is cheap but the import taxes are high  !> > > > I said about 4 times, including shipping etc... but Its0 > > > about 2.5 - 3 times the price in dollars !J > > > A DS-25 (2 CPUs x 8 GB + HBA) is costing here about US$ 160.000,00 !! > > > Whats is the price in USA?  > > > 
 > > > Regardsh > > >t > > > FC > > >  > > >c > > >o
 > > > > dt > > > > C > > > > "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message ? > > > > news:f30679fb.0401071027.3d0030f8@posting.google.com... : > > > > > "DAVID TURNER" <DAVID@HPAQ.NET> wrote in message0 > >  news:<vvmg55p2s3a74e@news.supernews.com>... > > > > > > ds10l 466mhz > > > > > > 256mb compaq memoryi! > > > > > > 30GB IDE 7200rpm disk + > > > > > > dual serial port (com1 console)n > > > > > > parallel porti > > > > > > usb port% > > > > > > 1 open 32/64 bit pci slotf > > > > > >e4 > > > > > > Only $595 for COMP.OS.VMS customers only > > > > > > K > > > > > > (A license is required to run VMS - get one at www.montagar.com  ford
 > >  hobbyistu > > > > > > use) > > > > > >M. > > > > > > One hell of a hobbyist system !!!!	 > > > > >d	 > > > > >MI > > > > > Too far for me ! The price will be multiplied by 4 with taxes !u	 > > > > >H > > > > > RegardsM	 > > > > >  > > > > > FC   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 11:52:46 -0800d& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) Subject: Re: ds10l blowout= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0401081152.7f6bef7e@posting.google.com>S  @ If only DS10Ls had two PCI slots... one just won't cut it.  NeedF decent graphics _and_ either KZPCA or KZPEA SCSI for it to replace any% existing EV5x box we have in service.y   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 17:53:50 -0600( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> Subject: Re: ds10l blowout/ Message-ID: <00A2B998.D5F63C48.1@tachysoft.com>C  ' >From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)c >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms >Subject: Re: ds10l blowoutt  >Date: 8 Jan 2004 11:52:46 -0800 > A >If only DS10Ls had two PCI slots... one just won't cut it.  NeedrG >decent graphics _and_ either KZPCA or KZPEA SCSI for it to replace anyt& >existing EV5x box we have in service.  O Just once I'd like to find a DS10L (on ebay or wherever) with a scsi controller,  and disk instead of dumbass IDE.O ===============================================================================eN Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   oO ===============================================================================vB Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?", 	Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 16:26:05 -0800V1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)  Subject: Re: ds10l blowout< Message-ID: <cf15391e.0401081626.b50fd16@posting.google.com>  k jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) wrote in message news:<cc5619f2.0401081152.7f6bef7e@posting.google.com>...AB > If only DS10Ls had two PCI slots... one just won't cut it.  NeedH > decent graphics _and_ either KZPCA or KZPEA SCSI for it to replace any' > existing EV5x box we have in service.t  C There's a Storage/Network/Video Combo card in the Supported Options % List for the DS10L.  Would this work:tF 3X-DEPVZ-AA  PCI TO 10/100MBPS EHTERNET, GRAPHICS,LVD SCSI COMBO ADPTR  @ Graphics capability described as "2D Video with 4 MB of graphicsE memory (based on 3Dlabs Permedia2V video ASIC), similar to the Compaql> SN-PBXGK-BB".  Does this qualify as "decent graphics" for your	 purposes?t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 00:19:10 GMTc6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: ds10l blowout2 Message-ID: <2smLb.25119$Tz1.11217@news.chello.at>  m In article <vvqjgu81k3eb4d@news.supernews.com>, "Island Computers USA" <dbturner@islandco.com.nospam> writes:0 >With 1 Year warranty?  K It depends. This were used (some refurbished) systems (some with warranty).    >And no memory disk etc...  7 128MB (some with 512MB, IIRC one with 1GB) but no disk.n< But I see no need to ship an IDE disk cross the pond though.  ! >I know our deal is good here !!!t  @ I wasn't complaining on your offer (I think, it is upper class),C I was hinting Fabio to find a DS10L for less (though I haven't seentE such a cheap offer for some weeks/months now at EBAY - must have beenyG sell out of dot com leftovers or bankrupts). There might be differences $ in tax for used systems in brazil...   -- n Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERg% Network and OpenVMS system specialists E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 19:22:52 -0600B@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: ds10l blowout6 Message-ID: <3FFE026C.76DBDC4B@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   DAVID TURNER wrote:n >  > ds10l 466mhz > 256mb compaq memoryr > 30GB IDE 7200rpm disk.! > dual serial port (com1 console)- > parallel porte
 > usb port > 1 open 32/64 bit pci slot  > * > Only $595 for COMP.OS.VMS customers only > N > (A license is required to run VMS - get one at www.montagar.com for hobbyist > use) > $ > One hell of a hobbyist system !!!!  5 How much extra for a CD-ROM to install software from?n   -- n David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/I   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 23:48:23 -0600d( From: Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net> Subject: Re: ds10l blowout2 Message-ID: <SKacnQ-OYPlVsmOiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>   Keith Parris wrote: m > jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) wrote in message news:<cc5619f2.0401081152.7f6bef7e@posting.google.com>...l > B >>If only DS10Ls had two PCI slots... one just won't cut it.  NeedH >>decent graphics _and_ either KZPCA or KZPEA SCSI for it to replace any' >>existing EV5x box we have in service.w >  > E > There's a Storage/Network/Video Combo card in the Supported OptionsM' > List for the DS10L.  Would this work: H > 3X-DEPVZ-AA  PCI TO 10/100MBPS EHTERNET, GRAPHICS,LVD SCSI COMBO ADPTR > B > Graphics capability described as "2D Video with 4 MB of graphicsG > memory (based on 3Dlabs Permedia2V video ASIC), similar to the Compaqo@ > SN-PBXGK-BB".  Does this qualify as "decent graphics" for your > purposes?E  G I've never used that card, but I did give up on Powerstorm 4D10T cards 8F (GLoria Synergy) which is a Permedia 2, because of real problems with G artifacts and blurring when running 1280x1024.  The boxes here tend to  F have ZLXp-L1 or Powerstorm 4D20 cards (my home box has a 4D20), and I H really liked the Powerstorm 300 I tried in a DS10.  The high resolution I is necessary, and _good_ scrolling speed and image quality are also.  As tB old as the ZLXp-L cards are, they blow away the Synergy for image  quality and scrolling speed.  H I didn't know the three-in-one card was LVD (presumably 80MB/sec?)... I H thought it was Ultra-wide.  That is nice to know if we get an situation * where less capable video is not a problem.   Rich Jordang   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 06:38:27 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>% Subject: Re: end-search next sentence 0 Message-ID: <3FFCFAE3.2C3AF9B5@sture.homeip.net>   tutor_nospam_@cfl.rr.com wrote:  >  > thanks for the spam paul.n! >     when you go to the library,o >     do you become afraid? # >     because the books have spines  >    and you DON'T > , >    ps: thank you for assuming i am a "SIR"& >    add sexist pig to your resume.... >    So, do pray tell...0  C How am I supposeed to address you when you sign yourself like this?s   Jerrold Schiff2 <phone number deleted> - my edit from the real one* mailto:tutor at cfl.rr.com - again my edit* http://home.cfl.rr.com/schiffkey/tutor.htm   4 And just look at the picture on his website folks...  < I leave it up to the rest of the newsgroup to form their own conclusions.   -- i
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 19:03:23 -05002 From: "Chris Moore" <chrismichael000@sympatico.ca>% Subject: Re: end-search next sentenceh; Message-ID: <3cmLb.78666$BA6.1650809@news20.bellglobal.com>a  7 "Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message-* news:3FFCFAE3.2C3AF9B5@sture.homeip.net...! > tutor_nospam_@cfl.rr.com wrote:y > >@ > > thanks for the spam paul. # > >     when you go to the library,9 > >     do you become afraid?c% > >     because the books have spinesi > >    and you DON'T > >e. > >    ps: thank you for assuming i am a "SIR"( > >    add sexist pig to your resume.... > >n >V > So, do pray tell...j >:E > How am I supposeed to address you when you sign yourself like this?a >n > Jerrold Schiff4 > <phone number deleted> - my edit from the real one, > mailto:tutor at cfl.rr.com - again my edit, > http://home.cfl.rr.com/schiffkey/tutor.htm >y6 > And just look at the picture on his website folks... >t> > I leave it up to the rest of the newsgroup to form their own > conclusions. >r > -- ' > Paul Sture      D That is one girl who REALLY needs to investigate electrolysis.......   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 03:12:05 +0000 (UTC)% From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase)s5 Subject: Re: Floating point arithmetic support in DCLn( Message-ID: <btl665$jh5$1@pcls4.std.com>  3 In article <gmbGb.11234$T_4.8616@news.cpqcorp.net>,i/ Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com_remove_this> wrote:X" > Thank you all for your feedback. > G > Here is what I would like to suggest to summarize all the responses :e > M > * For V8.2 we will introduce new lexical function F$MATH. While this is notl6 > the best approach, it will provide better arithmetic; > capabilities in DCL without breaking existing procedures.  > N > * For a post V8.2 release, we will implement "native" floating point support4 > in DCL. V8.2 is expected to ship in H204 so we areF > probably talking about mid-late 2005 for native floating point. When: > available, I will publish the spec to get your feedback/  H Quick and possibly irrelevant question on on this.  Assuming that VAX isD to still be supported under V8.2, will there be any problems with FPJ behaving slightly differently on the VAX than on the IEEE FP based Itanium and Alpha systems?   -brian.  -- TF --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ ----->       IBM 1130 Club Motto:  "Computer People Are Happy People"   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 19:27:28 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>45 Subject: RE: Floating point arithmetic support in DCL 9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICEAHCKAA.tom@kednos.com>      -----Original Message-----4   From: bdc@world.std.com [mailto:bdc@world.std.com]*   Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 7:12 PM   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn7   Subject: Re: Floating point arithmetic support in DCL     5   In article <gmbGb.11234$T_4.8616@news.cpqcorp.net>,p1   Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com_remove_this> wrote: $   > Thank you all for your feedback.   > I   > Here is what I would like to suggest to summarize all the responses ::   >CC   > * For V8.2 we will introduce new lexical function F$MATH. While5
   this is nott8   > the best approach, it will provide better arithmetic=   > capabilities in DCL without breaking existing procedures.e   >tB   > * For a post V8.2 release, we will implement "native" floating   point support/6   > in DCL. V8.2 is expected to ship in H204 so we areH   > probably talking about mid-late 2005 for native floating point. When<   > available, I will publish the spec to get your feedback/  J   Quick and possibly irrelevant question on on this.  Assuming that VAX isF   to still be supported under V8.2, will there be any problems with FPL   behaving slightly differently on the VAX than on the IEEE FP based Itanium   and Alpha systems?  D I guess you have been on vacation and didn't see all the discussion,  	   -brian.K   --H   --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----@         IBM 1130 Club Motto:  "Computer People Are Happy People"     ----(   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A   Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 1/8/2004t   --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 1/8/2004-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:00:55 -0500W3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>a Subject: Re: GNU build tools ??00 Message-ID: <xpKdnSARp8lEJGGiRVn-iQ@comcast.com>  F The piece that barfed used something like "FNDELAY" in fcntl() (I dug G into it again today and found another instance where somebody had used 0E FIONBIO to do the job with an #ifdef VMS.  When I get a big block of eH time to work on it again, I may be able to get past that one.  I'm sure  I will encounter many others.i   Craig A. Berry wrote:s  1 >In article <H9GdnSVSqP5MZmaiRVn-jw@comcast.com>, 6 > "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote: >s >    >S$ >>Another is extensions to the ANSI , >>C library that are not to be found in VMS. >>     >> > B >and parts of the standard itself that are not implemented on VMS. >o >  o >tH >>I'm stuck at the moment with an NTPDATE program that wants to do "non G >>blocking I/O" using arguments to iocntl() that VMS doesn't support.  t@ >>When you aren't even sure what is meant by "non blocking I/O" - >>translation, even if possible, is not easy.l >>     >> >eC >If you mean FIONBIO, this his has been available from the Process iA >stacks for years, and TCIP/IP Services for at least a couple of s3 >versions.  Here's a page from the Multinet manual:l >lJ >http://www.multinet.process.com/ftp/docs/html/programmers_reference/Ch02. >htm#E48E63/ >    >l   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 04:26:45 +0000 (UTC)% From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase)d/ Subject: Hobbyist Layered Product license PAKs?e( Message-ID: <btim65$8bi$1@pcls4.std.com>  D So... exactly how does one get his hands on the license paks for theC various OpenVMS layered products?  The paks e-mailed to me from theLE Montagar site only included: X500-DIRECTORY-SERVER, VAXCLUSTER, DFG, / and OPENVMS-HOBBYIST.e  H That seems to be a very small subset of what's listed as being available5 (http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/show_license.html).    Any pointers would be welcomed.t   -brian.  -- iF --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----+ Font-o-Meter!      Proportional  Monospacedy'                                       ^-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 01:52:57 -0500a* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>3 Subject: Re: Hobbyist Layered Product license PAKs? ) Message-ID: <3FFCFE26.64DD6AE5@istop.com>    Brian Chase wrote: > F > So... exactly how does one get his hands on the license paks for theE > various OpenVMS layered products?  The paks e-mailed to me from theXF > Montagar site only included: X500-DIRECTORY-SERVER, VAXCLUSTER, DFG, > and OPENVMS-HOBBYIST.   K The layered products comea as an email formatted as a command precudure you-I could execute to register the whole lot in one shot. It stsrts off with a F whole bit of comments/copyright stuff, then the 4 products you listed,< followed by ACMS ACMS-REM a whole bunch, with X25-CLIENT andR X500-ADMIN-FACILITY being the last two. There is no "the is the end" line/comment.  M I would contact the volunteer , perhaps with a copy of the email you receivedr which appears incomplete.t   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:49:11 +0000 (UTC)% From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase)a3 Subject: Re: Hobbyist Layered Product license PAKs?A( Message-ID: <btjql7$cqg$1@pcls4.std.com>  ) In article <3FFCFE26.64DD6AE5@istop.com>, , JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote: > Brian Chase wrote:  H > > So... exactly how does one get his hands on the license paks for theG > > various OpenVMS layered products?  The paks e-mailed to me from therH > > Montagar site only included: X500-DIRECTORY-SERVER, VAXCLUSTER, DFG, > > and OPENVMS-HOBBYIST.l > M > The layered products comea as an email formatted as a command precudure youlK > could execute to register the whole lot in one shot. It stsrts off with atH > whole bit of comments/copyright stuff, then the 4 products you listed,> > followed by ACMS ACMS-REM a whole bunch, with X25-CLIENT andF > X500-ADMIN-FACILITY being the last two. There is no "the is the end" > line/comment.e  G Good, so I'm not entirely crazy.  I've since tried using another e-mailnF address, but the license PAK returned is still truncated.  This seems C to be a problem on Montagar's end, unless perhaps there's somethingoC specifically wrong with my old DECUS ID from 1997.  Has anyone else/J recently requested or updated his layered product license PAKs and noticed the same problem?   F As you suggested, I sent an e-mail to the hobbyist address.  HopefullyB that'll things out and I'll be able to play with more than the OS.   -brian.  -- gF --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----B        "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."5               -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 16:43:04 +0100l( From: Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se>3 Subject: Re: Hobbyist Layered Product license PAKs?e0 Message-ID: <cs9k742la47.fsf@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>  ' bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) writes:s  + > In article <3FFCFE26.64DD6AE5@istop.com>,E. > JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote: >> Brian Chase wrote:  > I >> > So... exactly how does one get his hands on the license paks for theaH >> > various OpenVMS layered products?  The paks e-mailed to me from theI >> > Montagar site only included: X500-DIRECTORY-SERVER, VAXCLUSTER, DFG,f >> > and OPENVMS-HOBBYIST. >> dN >> The layered products comea as an email formatted as a command precudure youL >> could execute to register the whole lot in one shot. It stsrts off with aI >> whole bit of comments/copyright stuff, then the 4 products you listed,s? >> followed by ACMS ACMS-REM a whole bunch, with X25-CLIENT andaG >> X500-ADMIN-FACILITY being the last two. There is no "the is the end"n >> line/comment. >)I > Good, so I'm not entirely crazy.  I've since tried using another e-maileH > address, but the license PAK returned is still truncated.  This seems E > to be a problem on Montagar's end, unless perhaps there's something E > specifically wrong with my old DECUS ID from 1997.  Has anyone elserL > recently requested or updated his layered product license PAKs and noticed > the same problem?h  H I requested a new licence for the layered products just one or two monthF ago and it worked fine. I had to use an alternative address, since theF first letter got caught in a spam filter some some reason. But then it worked fine.  F I guess the script that generates the file it sends to you have become ill or something...    /andreas   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 12:16:46 -0600m; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n3 Subject: Re: Hobbyist Layered Product license PAKs?D3 Message-ID: <5Z$YtQXTWt3z@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  [ In article <cs9k742la47.fsf@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>, Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se> writes:@  H > I guess the script that generates the file it sends to you have become > ill or something...e      Worked for me last week.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 14:07:41 -0500 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>3 Subject: Re: Hobbyist Layered Product license PAKs?h8 Message-ID: <5iarvvgo21p8gj5bqtl2ffvpf40qmdubf0@4ax.com>  K On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 14:05:40 -0500, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> wrote:   I >It worked fine for me on November 10, 2003. The email I got included 104l
 >licenses.  M ...and for what it's worth, the 4 you mentioned were the first 4 in the list,  followed by:  " $ LICENSE REGISTER ACMS          -* $ LICENSE REGISTER ACMS-REM              -* $ LICENSE REGISTER ACMS-RT               -* $ LICENSE REGISTER ACMSXP-DEV            -* $ LICENSE REGISTER ACMSXP-RT             -" $ LICENSE REGISTER ADA           -* $ LICENSE REGISTER ADA-PDO               -: $ LICENSE REGISTER ALLIN1-MAIL-DW-CLIENT                 -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER ALLIN1-MAIL-SERVER            -: $ LICENSE REGISTER ALLIN1-MAIL-SERVER-USER               -: $ LICENSE REGISTER ALLIN1-MAIL-VT-CLIENT                 -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER ALLIN1-MAIL-VT-USER           -: $ LICENSE REGISTER ALLIN1-MAIL-WAN-SERVER                -* $ LICENSE REGISTER BASIC                 -" $ LICENSE REGISTER C             -" $ LICENSE REGISTER CMS           -* $ LICENSE REGISTER COBOL                 -* $ LICENSE REGISTER CXX-V                 -* $ LICENSE REGISTER DCE-APP-DEV           -* $ LICENSE REGISTER DCE-CDS               -* $ LICENSE REGISTER DCE-SECURITY          -* $ LICENSE REGISTER DCPS-OPEN             -* $ LICENSE REGISTER DCPS-PLUS             -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER DECDCS-SRV-VA                 -* $ LICENSE REGISTER DECMIGRATE            -* $ LICENSE REGISTER DECRAM                -* $ LICENSE REGISTER DECWRITE              -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER DECWRITE-USER                 -* $ LICENSE REGISTER DESKTOP-ACMS          -" $ LICENSE REGISTER DFS           -" $ LICENSE REGISTER DQS           -" $ LICENSE REGISTER DTM           -" $ LICENSE REGISTER DTR           -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER DTR-UI-JAPANESE               -* $ LICENSE REGISTER DVNETEND              -* $ LICENSE REGISTER DVNETEXT              -* $ LICENSE REGISTER DW-MOTIF              -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER DW-MOTIF-UI-CESKY             -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER DW-MOTIF-UI-DEUTSC            -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER DW-MOTIF-UI-ESPANO            -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER DW-MOTIF-UI-FRANCA            -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER DW-MOTIF-UI-HANGUL            -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER DW-MOTIF-UI-HANYU             -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER DW-MOTIF-UI-HANZI             -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER DW-MOTIF-UI-HEBREW            -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER DW-MOTIF-UI-ITALIA            -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER DW-MOTIF-UI-JAPANE            -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER DW-MOTIF-UI-MAGYAR            -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER DW-MOTIF-UI-POLSKI            -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER DW-MOTIF-UI-RUSSKI            -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER DW-MOTIF-UI-SLOVEN            -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER DW-MOTIF-UI-SVENSK            -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER DW-SNA-3270-TE-VMS            -* $ LICENSE REGISTER EXT-MATH-LIB          -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER EXT-MATH-LIB-RT               -" $ LICENSE REGISTER FMS           -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER FMS-RT-UI-JAPANESE            -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER FMS-UI-HANGUL                 -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER FMS-UI-JAPANESE               -* $ LICENSE REGISTER FORMS                 -* $ LICENSE REGISTER FORMS-RT              -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER FORMS-RT-UI-HANGUL            -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER FORMS-RT-UI-HANYU             -* $ LICENSE REGISTER FORTRAN               -" $ LICENSE REGISTER GKS           -* $ LICENSE REGISTER GKS-RT                -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER GKS-RT-UI-JAPANESE            -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER GKS-UI-JAPANESE               -* $ LICENSE REGISTER GKS3D                 -* $ LICENSE REGISTER GKS3D-RT              -" $ LICENSE REGISTER LSE           -* $ LICENSE REGISTER MACRO64               -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER MAILBUS-400-API               -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER MAILBUS-400-MTA               -* $ LICENSE REGISTER MMOV-DV               -* $ LICENSE REGISTER MMOV-RT               -" $ LICENSE REGISTER MMS           -* $ LICENSE REGISTER NOTES                 -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER OPENVMS-ALPHA-USER            -" $ LICENSE REGISTER OPS5          -* $ LICENSE REGISTER PASCAL                -" $ LICENSE REGISTER PCA           -* $ LICENSE REGISTER PHIGS                 -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER PHIGS-RUNTIME                 -: $ LICENSE REGISTER PHIGS-RUNTIME-UI-JAPAN                -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER PHIGS-UI-JAPANESE             -* $ LICENSE REGISTER RMSJNL                -* $ LICENSE REGISTER RTR-CL                -* $ LICENSE REGISTER RTR-SVR               -* $ LICENSE REGISTER SQL-DEV               -" $ LICENSE REGISTER SSU           -" $ LICENSE REGISTER UCX           -* $ LICENSE REGISTER VAXSET                -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER VMS-UI-JAPANESE               -* $ LICENSE REGISTER VMSCLUSTER            -* $ LICENSE REGISTER VOLSHAD               -" $ LICENSE REGISTER X25           -* $ LICENSE REGISTER X25-CLIENT            -2 $ LICENSE REGISTER X500-ADMIN-FACILITY           -I -------------------------------------------------------------------------oI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)3I -------------------------------------------------------------------------u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 14:05:40 -0500 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>3 Subject: Re: Hobbyist Layered Product license PAKs? 8 Message-ID: <p5arvv4t01j6gfhgffjoh0g5mhbms5gia8@4ax.com>  O On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:49:11 +0000 (UTC), bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) wrote:3  H >Good, so I'm not entirely crazy.  I've since tried using another e-mailG >address, but the license PAK returned is still truncated.  This seems gD >to be a problem on Montagar's end, unless perhaps there's somethingD >specifically wrong with my old DECUS ID from 1997.  Has anyone elseK >recently requested or updated his layered product license PAKs and noticedi >the same problem?  H It worked fine for me on November 10, 2003. The email I got included 104	 licenses.VI -------------------------------------------------------------------------hI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)eI -------------------------------------------------------------------------e   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 20:24:55 +0000 (UTC)% From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase)e3 Subject: Re: Hobbyist Layered Product license PAKs?-( Message-ID: <btkean$p56$1@pcls4.std.com>  3 In article <5Z$YtQXTWt3z@eisner.encompasserve.org>,o: Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.aspm.encompasserve.org> wrote:A > In article <cs9k742la47.fsf@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>, Andreas Davoure > <ante@update.uu.se> writes:s  J > > I guess the script that generates the file it sends to you have become > > ill or something...  >  >    Worked for me last week.t  F I think it was something that happened only recently.  I got an e-mailF back from the Montagar folks a few hours ago saying to try it again.   It worked for me that time.t  J BTW, the following are showing up in between OPENVMS_HOBBYIST and AMS now:  ) $ LICENSE REGISTER UCX-IP-CLIENT        - ! $ LICENSE REGISTER UCX-IP-NFS   - ! $ LICENSE REGISTER UCX-IP-RT    -m  F I don't see these listed in the hobbyist layered product pages yet, so5 perhaps it was something related to them being added.    -brian.2 --  F --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----B        "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."5               -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:56:05 -0600% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> < Subject: Re: How to determine which mirrored disk has errors8 Message-ID: <ak6Lb.27054$VV4.1053@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>  * <mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com> wrote in message" news:OhIkX+ncLqxE@cpva.saic.com...? > In article <cf15391e.0401071129.5df7b7c4@posting.google.com>, 6 >  keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:5 > > RJDurkee@yahoo.com (Rich Durkee) wrote in message 8 news:<14deb915.0401060437.eb30556@posting.google.com>...G > >> My OpenVMS 7.1 system is reporting a large number of errors on onewH > >> disk device. The device is mirrored at the controller level. If logF > >> onto the HSJ50 controller, I cannot find a command that shows theK > >> error count for each device. So how do I know which device to replace?  > >sF > > I think the HSJ50 command you're looking for is FMU, for the FaultI > > Management Utility.  Entering "SHOW ?" at the "FMU>" prompt will givepG > > you the SHOW command options.  I think "FMU> SHOW LAST ALL" will be 2 > > helpful, but I'm dredging deep in memory here. >t >iG > Is that true? My recollection (possibly incorrect) was that FMU would H > only describe faults of the HSJ itself and not failings related to the > disks it's serving.  > G > I have always analyzed the VMS system's error log looking for the PTLaD > of the offending disk in the device locator or associated port and > target info.  G IF it's like the HSG's I think that you would want SHOW LAST MOST  ThisoK should give you whatever was reporting the most errors.  LAST ALL gives youw the entire error log.m  J OR, if you are lucky, you will get an error message while connected to the6 CLI port that will have this information listed in it.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 19:17:39 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>!< Subject: RE: How to determine which mirrored disk has errorsR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB1E135C@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > > @ > > I have always analyzed the VMS system's error log looking=20 > for the PTL=20I > > of the offending disk in the device locator or associated port and=20h > > target info. >=20A > IF it's like the HSG's I think that you would want SHOW LAST=20o? > MOST  This should give you whatever was reporting the most=20g3 > errors.  LAST ALL gives you the entire error log.n >=20> > OR, if you are lucky, you will get an error message while=20> > connected to the CLI port that will have this information=20 > listed in it.C >=20 >=20    H Mike - this is where having console package like ConsoleWorks configuredH in your environment - with all HSx disk controllers connected. You wouldG not only have soft copy log that you could go back and review, but withvH the right customization, you could even have yourself paged if any errorF occurred on the HSx. You could also look at other HSx and VMS consolesF at the same to see if the error was picked up or noticed anywhere else at the same time ..4   :-)i   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior ConsultantO HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcomt. (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 19:17:49 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>< Subject: Re: How to determine which mirrored disk has errors6 Message-ID: <3FFE013D.D5637D9F@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Keith Parris wrote:r > l > RJDurkee@yahoo.com (Rich Durkee) wrote in message news:<14deb915.0401060437.eb30556@posting.google.com>...F > > My OpenVMS 7.1 system is reporting a large number of errors on oneG > > disk device. The device is mirrored at the controller level. If logtE > > onto the HSJ50 controller, I cannot find a command that shows thepJ > > error count for each device. So how do I know which device to replace? > D > I think the HSJ50 command you're looking for is FMU, for the Fault > Management Utility.    I believe that's RUN FMU...(  2 > Entering "SHOW ?" at the "FMU>" prompt will giveE > you the SHOW command options.  I think "FMU> SHOW LAST ALL" will beo0 > helpful, but I'm dredging deep in memory here. -- a David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsd http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 06:34:33 -0800i+ From: Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr (Bru, Pierre) , Subject: how to flush a file opened by DCL ?= Message-ID: <a39f53b1.0401080634.245cd953@posting.google.com>a  . I use the TEE.COM described in the PIPE help.   D as the PIPEd/tee-ed command is quite long to execute, I modified theD OPEN from OPEN/WRITE to OPEN/WRITE/SHARE=READ to be able to TYPE the: content of the tee-ed file while being created (see below)  , $       open/write/share=read  TEE_FILE 'P1' $ loop:1, $       read/end_of_file=exit  sys$pipe line@ $       write SYS$OUTPUT line ! send it out to next stage of the pipeline: $       write TEE_FILE   line ! log output to the log file $       goto loop  $ exit:h $       close TEE_FILE $       exit  F but of course, the tee-ed file is never flushed and its size is always2 0/real-size, preventing me to TYPE it's content :(  / any idea of how to flush a file opened by DCL ?    TIA, Pierre.!  E PS. BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK of the tee-ed file might do the trick but05 is not acceptable in the context the command is used.e   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 17:48:55 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)0 Subject: Re: how to flush a file opened by DCL ?. Message-ID: <btk566$64l$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr (Bru, Pierre) writes in article <a39f53b1.0401080634.245cd953@posting.google.com> dated 8 Jan 2004 06:34:33 -0800:- >$       open/write/share=read  TEE_FILE 'P1' 0 >any idea of how to flush a file opened by DCL ?  H Every N times through the loop you could CLOSE and OPEN/APPEND the file.  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:18:05 -0500* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>0 Subject: Re: how to flush a file opened by DCL ?8 Message-ID: <axpLb.86094$xZ1.653599@weber.videotron.net>  B Just open the file again under a different thread (then close it).   --   Syltrem $ OpenVMS Alpha 7.3-1 - Oracle 8.1.7.4  B http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS site in french language)B "Bru, Pierre" <Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr> a crit dans le message de7 news:a39f53b1.0401080634.245cd953@posting.google.com...o/ > I use the TEE.COM described in the PIPE help.c >aF > as the PIPEd/tee-ed command is quite long to execute, I modified theF > OPEN from OPEN/WRITE to OPEN/WRITE/SHARE=READ to be able to TYPE the< > content of the tee-ed file while being created (see below) > . > $       open/write/share=read  TEE_FILE 'P1'	 > $ loop:1. > $       read/end_of_file=exit  sys$pipe lineB > $       write SYS$OUTPUT line ! send it out to next stage of the
 > pipeline< > $       write TEE_FILE   line ! log output to the log file > $       goto loopu	 > $ exit:r > $       close TEE_FILE > $       exit >AH > but of course, the tee-ed file is never flushed and its size is always4 > 0/real-size, preventing me to TYPE it's content :( >t1 > any idea of how to flush a file opened by DCL ?D >  > TIA,	 > Pierre.= >=G > PS. BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK of the tee-ed file might do the trick buta7 > is not acceptable in the context the command is used.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 19:16:30 -0500=* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>) Subject: Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again) ) Message-ID: <3FFCA156.47401AC5@istop.com>n   Alder wrote:C > external IP address.  The domain name, courtesy of DYNDNS.ORG, is-K > EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET.  I can send and receive mail on the VMS system OK, buteJ > the problem I'm facing is that once an incoming mail is delivered to theJ > appropriate VMS user account the associated entry in the execution queueJ > lingers on indefinitely in a BUSY state.  Any mail arriving later is, ofM > course, queued up forever (or until I manually delete the entry).  How long " > should I expect to have to wait?  > > $ TYPE SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOCAL_ALIASES.TXT > EREBUS.HOMEIP.NETe  M The SMTP host that receives the email destined for EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET needs toXM know that EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET points to the local internal 192.* IP address andsM not the one provided by dyndns.org otherwise it will try to deliver the emailbL back to the internet. Problem is that many home routers intercept calls made6 from the intranet to the router's WAN side IP address.  3 You can probably get around this easily by doing a 95 $TCPIP SET HOST EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET/ADDRESS=192.168.0.3G  E In my intranet, in order for my "public" dyndns host name to functionnG properly, I have added it to my DNS server as a separate zone file that M contains only my own public host name. So resolving any other dyndns.org host L still gets done through the real outside dyndns name servers, but when I tryK to resolve my public name, it gets done locally by my intranet's DNS serverb4 which responds with the private intranet IP address.    in the TCIIP$BIND.CONF, I added:  ! zone "VAXINATION.DYNDNS.ORG" in {m         type master;         file "DYNDNS_ORG.DB";  };   and in DYNDNS_ORG.DB , I have:; VAXINATION.DYNDNS.ORG.  IN      SOA     bike.vaxination.ca.e jfmezei.bike.vaxination.ca. (a5                 35 18000 300 604800 43200 )     ;Cl=2T=                 IN      NS      bike.vaxination.ca.     ;Cl=2.=                 IN      MX      10 BIKE.vaxination.ca.  ;Cl=2m)                 IN      A       10.0.0.10   K where "bike.vaxination.ca" is the host name internal to my lan that has the- smtp server.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:41:21 -0500e3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>R) Subject: Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)B0 Message-ID: <sbWdnQnF-r_OXmGiRVn-sw@comcast.com>  3 Don't be so sure that you have messed something up!I  I I've been through the wars with SMTP on UCX 2.0E, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3 and 4.2.  F 3.3 up to ECO 8 would crash the symbiont quite regularly.  V4.2 still G did it occasionally.  It has gotten a lot better in the last ten years aE but I think there are still serveral obscure bugs or maybe more than  F several.  I no longer use TCP/IP Services for incoming mail send very  little outgoing mail.y  H If you have software support for TCP/IP services, log a call.  If not,  > there may not be much you can do except learn to live with it.   Alder wrote:  ! >Hi everyone, and Happy New Year!i >J7 >Another question from the local VMS dummy, I'm afraid. ( >AlphaServer AS1000A 4/266 w/ 384 MB RAM >OpenVMS 7.3 >TCP/IP Services 5.4 >dE >I'm attempting to use HP's SMTP product on my standalone AlphaServer.L >(hostname SZEGED).  This system is on an Ethernet LAN and has an IP addressI >of 192.168.0.3.  It's connected to the Internet through a W2K Pro systemCK >(hostname KIRALY) with an internal IP address of 192.168.0.1 and a dynamic B >external IP address.  The domain name, courtesy of DYNDNS.ORG, isJ >EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET.  I can send and receive mail on the VMS system OK, butI >the problem I'm facing is that once an incoming mail is delivered to theeI >appropriate VMS user account the associated entry in the execution queuevI >lingers on indefinitely in a BUSY state.  Any mail arriving later is, ofdL >course, queued up forever (or until I manually delete the entry).  How long! >should I expect to have to wait?8 >GK >The documentation and previous SMTP discussions on c.o.v. were helpful fortL >getting some other configuration issues sorted out, but I suspect that I'veI >botched the configuration in some fashion.  Here's some config info thate >might be relevant:e >n  >$ TCPIP SHOW CONFIGURATION SMTP >c >SMTP ConfigurationrF >                                                              OptionsJ >Initial interval:   0 00:30:00.00       Address_max:    16    NOEIGHT_BITF >Retry interval:     0 01:00:00.00       Hop_count_max:  16    NORELAYJ >Maximum interval:   3 00:00:00.00                             TOP_HEADERS >rH >Timeout             Initial       Mail    Receipt       Data  TerminateH >  Send:                   5          5          5          3         10 >  Receive:                5 >c  >Alternate gateway:  not defined  >General gateway:    not defined >h  >Substitute domain:  not defined  >Zone:               not defined >a >Postmaster:         TCPIP$SMTPeD >Log file:           SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOG >i1 >Generic queue       Queues   Participating nodesr >s$ >TCPIP$SMTP_SZEGED_00   1     SZEGED >o >u >$ TCPIP SHOW MX_RECORDoC >%TCPIP-E-ROUTEERROR, error accessing routes database (TCPIP$ROUTE)r) >-TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not foundn >e >e >$ SHOW LOGICAL/SYSTEM *SMTP*o >  >(LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)r >m. >  "MAIL$PROTOCOL_SMTP" = "TCPIP$SMTP_MAILSHR"4 >  "TCPIP$SMTP_COMMON" = "SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]" >  "TCPIP$SMTP_ENABLE" = ".1.." & >  "TCPIP$SMTP_LOCAL_ALIAS_ONLY" = "1" >  "TCPIP$SMTP_LOG_LEVEL" = "3"l >  "TCPIP$SMTP_NO_MX" = "1"-, >  "TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_SNAPSHOT_BLOCKS" = "200"  >  "TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_TRACE" = "1"' >  "TCPIP$SMTP_SFF_REQUIRES_PRIV" = "1"s, >  "TCPIP$SMTP_SYMB_SNAPSHOT_BLOCKS" = "200"  >  "TCPIP$SMTP_SYMB_TRACE" = "1" > = >$ TYPE SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOCAL_ALIASES.TXTs >EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET >e >$ TCPIP SHOW HOST/LOCAL >m >     LOCAL database >@ >Host address    Host name > L >192.168.0.1     KIRALY.EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET, kiraly.erebus.homeip.net, KIRALY, >                kiralysL >192.168.0.2     ISZKAZ.EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET, iszkaz.erebus.homeip.net, ISZKAZ, >                iszkaziL >192.168.0.3     SZEGED.EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET, szeged.erebus.homeip.net, SZEGED, >                szegedu% >127.0.0.1       LOCALHOST, localhostl >c >fL >And here's a typical queue listing.  The mail item associted with ENTRY 951L >has been delivered to the local user account, but has remained BUSY now for >hours:o >t' >$ SHOW QUEUE/FULL/DEVICE=SERVER *SMTP* * >Generic server queue TCPIP$SMTP_SZEGED_002 >  /GENERIC=(TCPIP$SMTP_SZEGED_01) /OWNER=[SYSTEM] >/PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) >  /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE)v >iK >Server queue TCPIP$SMTP_SZEGED_01, busy, on SZEGED::, mounted form DEFAULTn@ >  /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FEED,FORM=DEFAULT) /OWNER=[SYSTEM]? >  /PROCESSOR=TCPIP$SMTP_SYMBIONT /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S)- >  >l >$ TCPIP SHOW MAIL >>1 >  SMTP Mail Queue Entry:   956  User: TCPIP$SMTPe
 >    File:L >_SZEGED$DKA0:[SYS0.TCPIP$SMTP]04010711443094_TCPIP$SMTP-1A4E.TCPIP_SZEGED;1 >    Status: Pending >u >    Message Headers:u >r> >      Return Path: SMTP%"Terrence.Branscombe@gems8.gov.bc.ca"A >      Received By: from cedar.itsd.gov.bc.ca (142.32.11.116)  byiH >szeged.erebus.homeip.net (V5.4-15, OpenVMS V7.3 Alpha); Wed, 7 Jan 2004 >11:44:30 -0800 (PST) L >      Received By: from pipe.gov.bc.ca (pipe.bcsc.gov.bc.ca [142.32.11.55])? >by cedar.itsd.gov.bc.ca (8.12.5-20030917/8.12.5) with ESMTP idbA >i07JiMC4007080 for <tbransco@erebus.homeip.net>; Wed, 7 Jan 2004v >11:44:25 -0800uE >      Received By: by pipe.bcsc.gov.bc.ca with Internet Mail Serviceu< >(5.5.2657.72) id <CJ3WHS1N>; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:44:22 -08007 >      From:        Terrence.Branscombe@gems8.gov.bc.cag2 >      To:          "'tbransco@erebus.homeip.net'" ><tbransco@erebus.homeip.net>m& >      Subject:     SMTP test from MEM2 >      Date:        Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:44:18 -0800 > 1 >  SMTP Mail Queue Entry:   951  User: TCPIP$SMTPy
 >    File:G >_SZEGED$DKA0:[SYS0.TCPIP$SMTP]04010622474510_TCPIP$SMTP-1AB6.TCPIP_SZEr >GED;1 >    Status: Processing4 >u >cG >If anyone has any suggestions for fixing the SMTP queues, or for otherI9 >configuration changes, please let me know here.  Thanks.g >- > 	 >Regards,@ >l >Alder >m >t >  @ >l   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 06:17:10 GMTb( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>) Subject: Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)e. Message-ID: <GB6Lb.187448$ss5.175133@clgrps13>   Richard B. Gilbert wrote::5 > Don't be so sure that you have messed something up!   # I base it on past experience... :-)s   > J > If you have software support for TCP/IP services, log a call.  If not,  @ > there may not be much you can do except learn to live with it. >   B Surely there is SOMEONE here who uses it and has it configured to  actually function.  Anyone?s   Regards, Alder    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 06:58:49 GMT/( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>) Subject: Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)m. Message-ID: <Jc7Lb.188250$ss5.115279@clgrps13>   JF Mezei wrote::  O > The SMTP host that receives the email destined for EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET needs tooO > know that EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET points to the local internal 192.* IP address andbO > not the one provided by dyndns.org otherwise it will try to deliver the emailE > back to the internet.  < snip >   Thanks, JF.   @ I'm pretty foggy on SMTP in general, so I don't mean this to be G argumentative; but, I don't think it's trying to deliver the mail back m@ to the Internet as you suspect.  The mail is being successfully G delivered - once it clears the clogged queue - to the correct VMS Mail eH accounts.  I believe the contents of TCPIP$SMTP_LOCAL_ALIASES.TXT takes 
 care of this.:   Regards, Alder:   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 03:11:04 -0500a* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>) Subject: Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)l) Message-ID: <3FFD106F.AAD41BF5@istop.com>-   Alder wrote:A > I'm pretty foggy on SMTP in general, so I don't mean this to begH > argumentative; but, I don't think it's trying to deliver the mail backA > to the Internet as you suspect.  The mail is being successfullytH > delivered - once it clears the clogged queue - to the correct VMS MailI > accounts.  I believe the contents of TCPIP$SMTP_LOCAL_ALIASES.TXT takesf > care of this.   N Nop. The email arrives from the internet by the receiver process. The receiver8 process sees that the email is destined to a host in theL smtp_local_aliases.txt file so it accepts the email (instead of rejecting itG as an attempt to relay). But all the receiver process does is queue thenS received message to the sender (whcih is when you see it added to the smtp queues).d  N The sender process takes the message, sees it is destined to EREBUS.HOMEIP.NETJ and uses the DNS system to find out what the IP address of the SMTP serverM resposible for it is.  If EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET points to an IP outside your LAN,a6 the sender will attempt to send it to that IP address.  I If your router intercepts attempst fropm your intranet to connect to yourOK external IP address, then the SMTP sender would probably get stuck, waitingT- forever for the initial SMTP welcome message.r  N You really need to tell your SMTP server that EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET point to an IP address inside your LAN.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:45:21 -0800* From: "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com>) Subject: Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)e+ Message-ID: <3ffd8921$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>   B Now why can't HP write documentation that makes this much sense ?!   Thanks, JF.s  L I'll bang away at the TCPIP$HOST file some more and see how that works, then post back the "results".   Cheers,t Alderi   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 13:34:35 -0800* From: "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com>) Subject: Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)w+ Message-ID: <3ffdccea$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>   L Still no joy.  I added "EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET" to my TCPIP$HOST file and checked the name resolution:   $ TCPIP PING erebus.homeip.net3 PING EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET (192.168.0.3): 56 data bytes 6 64 bytes from 192.168.0.3: icmp_seq=0 ttl=64 time=1 ms ...a  K ...but the execution queue still hangs (an hour so far) after the mail item>K is successfully delivered to the local VMS Mail account.  Not sure where to.G go from here, so any more suggestions will be welcome.  Here's what theo config looks like now:   $ TCPIP SHOW HOST/LOCALi        LOCAL databased   Host address    Host namee  D 192.168.0.3     EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET, erebus.homeip.net, SZEGED, szegedK 192.168.0.2     ISZKAZ.EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET, iszkaz.erebus.homeip.net, ISZKAZ,l                 iszkazK 192.168.0.1     KIRALY.EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET, kiraly.erebus.homeip.net, KIRALY,s                 kiraly$ 127.0.0.1       LOCALHOST, localhost   $ TCPIP SHOW MAIL,  0   SMTP Mail Queue Entry:   964  User: TCPIP$SMTP	     File: K _SZEGED$DKA0:[SYS0.TCPIP$SMTP]04010811334279_TCPIP$SMTP-1AC9.TCPIP_SZEGED;1m     Status: Processing   $ TYPE TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOGp  I Dump of log snapshot buffer follows (smtp$symb_condh dumping log snapshot- buffer)- Snapshot buffer is empty End Dump of log snapshot buffer@    D %%%%%%%%%%%%                    8-JAN-2004 11:26:53.91  %%%%%%%%%%%%$ %TCPIP-I-SMTP_LOGSUC, using log file+ SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE@ .LOG  I Dump of log snapshot buffer follows (smtp$symb_condh dumping log snapshot  buffer)    TCPIP SMTP configuration data:& Server-Nodes                  : SZEGED4 Queue-Name                    : TCPIP$SMTP_SZEGED_00 Alternate-Gateway             :i General-Gateway               :A Substitute-Domain             :O Zone                          :c* Postmaster-Alias              : Postmaster& Postmaster-Forwards-To        : SYSTEM Foreign-Transport-Synonyms    : - Initial-Interval              : 0 00:30:00.00y- Retry-Interval                : 0 01:00:00.00 - Retry-Maximum                 : 3 00:00:00.002! Receive-Timeout               : 5 " Retry-Address                 : 16" Hop-Count                     : 16! Symbiont-Snapshot-Blocks      : 0e! Receiver-Snapshot-Blocks      : 0 ! Utilities-Snapshot-Blocks     : 0e! Send-Timeout-Init             : 5 ! Send-Timeout-Mail             : 5u! Send-Timeout-Rcpt             : 5p! Send-Timeout-Data             : 3I" Send-Timeout-Term             : 10! Log-Level                     : 3e! Receiver-Debug                : 0 ! Receiver-Trace                : 0t! Symbiont-Debug                : 0t! Symbiont-Trace                : 1s! Utilities-Debug               : 0m! Utilities-Trace               : 0 ! EF-Debug-Level                : 0 ! Channel-Debug-Level           : 0 # Header-Placement              : TOPe% Eightbit                      : FALSE % Relay                         : FALSE1% Altgate-Always                : FALSE % Mx-If-Noaltgate               : FALSEl$ No-Mx                         : TRUE% No-Subs-Domain-Inbound        : FALSEd$ Smtp-Jacket-Local             : TRUE$ Cent-Sign-Hack                : TRUE% Nosey                         : FALSE % Log-Line-Numbers              : FALSEo% Memory-Debug                  : FALSEp% Mail$Protocol-Debug           : FALSE % CF-Debug                      : FALSEi% Parse-Debug                   : FALSE>% Deliver-VMS-Def-To            : FALSEh% Deliver-NoXVMS                : FALSEn% MTS-From-Hack                 : FALSEY% Rewrite-MTS-From              : FALSEE$ Local-Alias-Only              : TRUE% Relay-Based-On-Mx             : FALSEa% Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP  : FALSEe% Accept-Unqualified-Senders    : FALSE % Accept-Unresolvable-Domains   : FALSEo$ SFF-Requires-Priv             : TRUE% 8BitMIME-Hack                 : FALSE % Suppress-Version-Info         : FALSE   " Other TCPIP SMTP environment data:* SMTP Software Username        : TCPIP$SMTP9 SMTP Software Default Director: SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]e Symbiont Log File             :e/ SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOGl   List of (1) local aliases: EREBUS.HOMEIP.NETn  C Ordered list of gateways for relaying mail to alternate gateway ():t Number of MX entries: 09- Expiration Date:      17-NOV-1858 00:00:00.00p End Dump of log snapshot buffer     D %%%%%%%%%%%%                    8-JAN-2004 11:27:00.28  %%%%%%%%%%%%I %TCPIP-I-SMTP_SYMBRUN, symbiont is running the queue TCPIP$SMTP_SZEGED_01u    7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:3FFD106F.AAD41BF5@istop.com...t >eA > You really need to tell your SMTP server that EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET ) > point to an IP address inside your LAN..   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 08:54:55 +1030: From: "Barratt, Chris (FMC)" <Chris.Barratt@fmc.sa.gov.au>) Subject: RE: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again) P Message-ID: <E829CF9B8F94014887EBC61E1951B0CE01F9BE1C@sagemshs001.fmc.sa.gov.au>  
  Hi Alder,  l<  We had a similar problem a year or so ago. There was a VMS <  patch that came out to fix it, so I would suggest ensuring   your patches are up to date.   s<  From memory, there was a problem with delivering an AST or ?  something. In the case of SMTP mail, when an email came in it  >  tried to send the "New mail" message to the user and hung as =  you described because it couldn't deliver the message. This 0=  meant that the queue was effectively hung. We had a similar  #  problem with another product too. I  o>  Sorry I can't remember which patch fixed it, but if you have &  support they should be able to help.   r  Cheers,  Chris >  >  e >  > > -----Original Message-----4 > > From: Alder [mailto:MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com] ( > > Sent: Thursday, 8 January 2004 08:15 > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ) > > Subject: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)  > > $ > > Hi everyone, and Happy New Year! > > : > > Another question from the local VMS dummy, I'm afraid.+ > > AlphaServer AS1000A 4/266 w/ 384 MB RAMA > > OpenVMS 7.3  > > TCP/IP Services 5.4E > > H > > I'm attempting to use HP's SMTP product on my standalone AlphaServerB > > (hostname SZEGED).  This system is on an Ethernet LAN and has  > > an IP addressSB > > of 192.168.0.3.  It's connected to the Internet through a W2K  > > Pro systemA > > (hostname KIRALY) with an internal IP address of 192.168.0.1 I > > and a dynamic E > > external IP address.  The domain name, courtesy of DYNDNS.ORG, isL? > > EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET.  I can send and receive mail on the VMS   > > system OK, but< > > the problem I'm facing is that once an incoming mail is  > > delivered to the= > > appropriate VMS user account the associated entry in the   > > execution queueT@ > > lingers on indefinitely in a BUSY state.  Any mail arriving  > > later is, of> > > course, queued up forever (or until I manually delete the  > > entry).  How longI$ > > should I expect to have to wait? > > > > > The documentation and previous SMTP discussions on c.o.v.  > > were helpful for> > > getting some other configuration issues sorted out, but I  > > suspect that I've < > > botched the configuration in some fashion.  Here's some  > > config info that > > might be relevant: > > # > > $ TCPIP SHOW CONFIGURATION SMTP  > >  > > SMTP Configuration@ > >                                                              >   OptionsTB > > Initial interval:   0 00:30:00.00       Address_max:    16     > > NOEIGHT_BIT-@ > > Retry interval:     0 01:00:00.00       Hop_count_max:  16   >   NORELAYIB > > Maximum interval:   3 00:00:00.00                              > > TOP_HEADERSS > > B > > Timeout             Initial       Mail    Receipt       Data  
 > > Terminate B > >   Send:                   5          5          5          3  
 > >        10I > >   Receive:                5S > > # > > Alternate gateway:  not defined # > > General gateway:    not defined  > > # > > Substitute domain:  not definedI# > > Zone:               not definedT > > " > > Postmaster:         TCPIP$SMTPG > > Log file:           SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOG- > > 4 > > Generic queue       Queues   Participating nodes > > ' > > TCPIP$SMTP_SZEGED_00   1     SZEGED  > >  > >  > > $ TCPIP SHOW MX_RECORDF > > %TCPIP-E-ROUTEERROR, error accessing routes database (TCPIP$ROUTE), > > -TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not found > >  > >   > > $ SHOW LOGICAL/SYSTEM *SMTP* > >  > > (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) > > 1 > >   "MAIL$PROTOCOL_SMTP" = "TCPIP$SMTP_MAILSHR" 7 > >   "TCPIP$SMTP_COMMON" = "SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]"E" > >   "TCPIP$SMTP_ENABLE" = ".1..") > >   "TCPIP$SMTP_LOCAL_ALIAS_ONLY" = "1"N" > >   "TCPIP$SMTP_LOG_LEVEL" = "3" > >   "TCPIP$SMTP_NO_MX" = "1"/ > >   "TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_SNAPSHOT_BLOCKS" = "200"G# > >   "TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_TRACE" = "1"I* > >   "TCPIP$SMTP_SFF_REQUIRES_PRIV" = "1"/ > >   "TCPIP$SMTP_SYMB_SNAPSHOT_BLOCKS" = "200"I# > >   "TCPIP$SMTP_SYMB_TRACE" = "1"- > > @ > > $ TYPE SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOCAL_ALIASES.TXT > > EREBUS.HOMEIP.NETI > >  > > $ TCPIP SHOW HOST/LOCALE > >  > >      LOCAL database  > >  > > Host address    Host nameB > > . > > 192.168.0.1     KIRALY.EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET, % > > kiraly.erebus.homeip.net, KIRALY,O > >                 kiraly. > > 192.168.0.2     ISZKAZ.EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET, % > > iszkaz.erebus.homeip.net, ISZKAZ,I > >                 iszkaz. > > 192.168.0.3     SZEGED.EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET, % > > szeged.erebus.homeip.net, SZEGED,- > >                 szeged( > > 127.0.0.1       LOCALHOST, localhost > >  > > A > > And here's a typical queue listing.  The mail item associted T > > with ENTRY 951: > > has been delivered to the local user account, but has  > > remained BUSY now forE
 > > hours: > > * > > $ SHOW QUEUE/FULL/DEVICE=SERVER *SMTP*- > > Generic server queue TCPIP$SMTP_SZEGED_00 5 > >   /GENERIC=(TCPIP$SMTP_SZEGED_01) /OWNER=[SYSTEM] ! > > /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S)  > >   /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE) > > B > > Server queue TCPIP$SMTP_SZEGED_01, busy, on SZEGED::, mounted  > > form DEFAULTC > >   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FEED,FORM=DEFAULT) /OWNER=[SYSTEM]IB > >   /PROCESSOR=TCPIP$SMTP_SYMBIONT /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) > >  > >  > > $ TCPIP SHOW MAIL  > > 4 > >   SMTP Mail Queue Entry:   956  User: TCPIP$SMTP
 > >     File:-B > > _SZEGED$DKA0:[SYS0.TCPIP$SMTP]04010711443094_TCPIP$SMTP-1A4E.T > > CPIP_SZEGED;1  > >     Status: Pending1 > >  > >     Message Headers: > > A > >       Return Path: SMTP%"Terrence.Branscombe@gems8.gov.bc.ca"-D > >       Received By: from cedar.itsd.gov.bc.ca (142.32.11.116)  byA > > szeged.erebus.homeip.net (V5.4-15, OpenVMS V7.3 Alpha); Wed, 0 > > 7 Jan 2004 > > 11:44:30 -0800 (PST)@ > >       Received By: from pipe.gov.bc.ca (pipe.bcsc.gov.bc.ca  > > [142.32.11.55])jB > > by cedar.itsd.gov.bc.ca (8.12.5-20030917/8.12.5) with ESMTP idD > > i07JiMC4007080 for <tbransco@erebus.homeip.net>; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 > > 11:44:25 -0800H > >       Received By: by pipe.bcsc.gov.bc.ca with Internet Mail Service? > > (5.5.2657.72) id <CJ3WHS1N>; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:44:22 -0800n: > >       From:        Terrence.Branscombe@gems8.gov.bc.ca5 > >       To:          "'tbransco@erebus.homeip.net'"u  > > <tbransco@erebus.homeip.net>) > >       Subject:     SMTP test from MEMb5 > >       Date:        Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:44:18 -0800  > > 4 > >   SMTP Mail Queue Entry:   951  User: TCPIP$SMTP
 > >     File:- > > H > _SZEGED$DKA0:[SYS0.TCPIP$SMTP]04010622474510_TCPIP$SMTP-1AB6.TCPIP_SZE	 > > GED;1i > >     Status: Processing > >  > > > > > If anyone has any suggestions for fixing the SMTP queues,  > or for other< > > configuration changes, please let me know here.  Thanks. > >  > >  > > Regards, > > 	 > > Aldern > >  > >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 22:43:23 +0000a) From: Tony Arnold <tony.arnold@man.ac.uk>b) Subject: Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)Z9 Message-ID: <btkmeb$86kc9$1@ID-207001.news.uni-berlin.de>r   Alder,  I SO far as I can see your configuration should work! Have you checked for EH problems with the end user account, e.g., quotas, is SET FORWARD set to D anything etc? Are you certain the stuck message is the one that got E delivered ans is not a return message of some kind that is not going iF anywhere? Do you have a POSTMASTER alias set up and does that receive 	 anything?w    Just some things to think about.   Tony.e   Alder wrote:  " > Hi everyone, and Happy New Year! > 8 > Another question from the local VMS dummy, I'm afraid.) > AlphaServer AS1000A 4/266 w/ 384 MB RAMI
 > OpenVMS 7.3  > TCP/IP Services 5.4R > F > I'm attempting to use HP's SMTP product on my standalone AlphaServerM > (hostname SZEGED).  This system is on an Ethernet LAN and has an IP addressnJ > of 192.168.0.3.  It's connected to the Internet through a W2K Pro systemL > (hostname KIRALY) with an internal IP address of 192.168.0.1 and a dynamicC > external IP address.  The domain name, courtesy of DYNDNS.ORG, is-K > EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET.  I can send and receive mail on the VMS system OK, butnJ > the problem I'm facing is that once an incoming mail is delivered to theJ > appropriate VMS user account the associated entry in the execution queueJ > lingers on indefinitely in a BUSY state.  Any mail arriving later is, ofM > course, queued up forever (or until I manually delete the entry).  How long@" > should I expect to have to wait? > L > The documentation and previous SMTP discussions on c.o.v. were helpful forM > getting some other configuration issues sorted out, but I suspect that I'veuJ > botched the configuration in some fashion.  Here's some config info that > might be relevant: > ! > $ TCPIP SHOW CONFIGURATION SMTPt >  > SMTP ConfigurationG >                                                               OptionsrK > Initial interval:   0 00:30:00.00       Address_max:    16    NOEIGHT_BITtG > Retry interval:     0 01:00:00.00       Hop_count_max:  16    NORELAY K > Maximum interval:   3 00:00:00.00                             TOP_HEADERSi > I > Timeout             Initial       Mail    Receipt       Data  TerminaterI >   Send:                   5          5          5          3         10b >   Receive:                5n > ! > Alternate gateway:  not defineds! > General gateway:    not definedl > ! > Substitute domain:  not defined ! > Zone:               not defineds >   > Postmaster:         TCPIP$SMTPE > Log file:           SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOGl > 2 > Generic queue       Queues   Participating nodes > % > TCPIP$SMTP_SZEGED_00   1     SZEGEDe >  >  > $ TCPIP SHOW MX_RECORDD > %TCPIP-E-ROUTEERROR, error accessing routes database (TCPIP$ROUTE)* > -TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not found >  >  > $ SHOW LOGICAL/SYSTEM *SMTP* >  > (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) > / >   "MAIL$PROTOCOL_SMTP" = "TCPIP$SMTP_MAILSHR"m5 >   "TCPIP$SMTP_COMMON" = "SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]"r  >   "TCPIP$SMTP_ENABLE" = ".1.."' >   "TCPIP$SMTP_LOCAL_ALIAS_ONLY" = "1"e  >   "TCPIP$SMTP_LOG_LEVEL" = "3" >   "TCPIP$SMTP_NO_MX" = "1"- >   "TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_SNAPSHOT_BLOCKS" = "200" ! >   "TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_TRACE" = "1"n( >   "TCPIP$SMTP_SFF_REQUIRES_PRIV" = "1"- >   "TCPIP$SMTP_SYMB_SNAPSHOT_BLOCKS" = "200"e! >   "TCPIP$SMTP_SYMB_TRACE" = "1"S > > > $ TYPE SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOCAL_ALIASES.TXT > EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET  >  > $ TCPIP SHOW HOST/LOCALe >  >      LOCAL databasey >  > Host address    Host nameo > M > 192.168.0.1     KIRALY.EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET, kiraly.erebus.homeip.net, KIRALY,  >                 kiralyM > 192.168.0.2     ISZKAZ.EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET, iszkaz.erebus.homeip.net, ISZKAZ,d >                 iszkazM > 192.168.0.3     SZEGED.EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET, szeged.erebus.homeip.net, SZEGED,h >                 szeged& > 127.0.0.1       LOCALHOST, localhost >  > M > And here's a typical queue listing.  The mail item associted with ENTRY 951 M > has been delivered to the local user account, but has remained BUSY now foru > hours: > ( > $ SHOW QUEUE/FULL/DEVICE=SERVER *SMTP*+ > Generic server queue TCPIP$SMTP_SZEGED_00O3 >   /GENERIC=(TCPIP$SMTP_SZEGED_01) /OWNER=[SYSTEM]5 > /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S)D >   /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE) > L > Server queue TCPIP$SMTP_SZEGED_01, busy, on SZEGED::, mounted form DEFAULTA >   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FEED,FORM=DEFAULT) /OWNER=[SYSTEM]N@ >   /PROCESSOR=TCPIP$SMTP_SYMBIONT /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) >  >  > $ TCPIP SHOW MAILD > 2 >   SMTP Mail Queue Entry:   956  User: TCPIP$SMTP >     File: M > _SZEGED$DKA0:[SYS0.TCPIP$SMTP]04010711443094_TCPIP$SMTP-1A4E.TCPIP_SZEGED;13 >     Status: Pendinge >  >     Message Headers: > ? >       Return Path: SMTP%"Terrence.Branscombe@gems8.gov.bc.ca".B >       Received By: from cedar.itsd.gov.bc.ca (142.32.11.116)  byI > szeged.erebus.homeip.net (V5.4-15, OpenVMS V7.3 Alpha); Wed, 7 Jan 2004n > 11:44:30 -0800 (PST)M >       Received By: from pipe.gov.bc.ca (pipe.bcsc.gov.bc.ca [142.32.11.55])o@ > by cedar.itsd.gov.bc.ca (8.12.5-20030917/8.12.5) with ESMTP idB > i07JiMC4007080 for <tbransco@erebus.homeip.net>; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 > 11:44:25 -0800F >       Received By: by pipe.bcsc.gov.bc.ca with Internet Mail Service= > (5.5.2657.72) id <CJ3WHS1N>; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:44:22 -0800 8 >       From:        Terrence.Branscombe@gems8.gov.bc.ca3 >       To:          "'tbransco@erebus.homeip.net'"m > <tbransco@erebus.homeip.net>' >       Subject:     SMTP test from MEM03 >       Date:        Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:44:18 -0800u > 2 >   SMTP Mail Queue Entry:   951  User: TCPIP$SMTP >     File:1H > _SZEGED$DKA0:[SYS0.TCPIP$SMTP]04010622474510_TCPIP$SMTP-1AB6.TCPIP_SZE > GED;1p >     Status: Processing >  > H > If anyone has any suggestions for fixing the SMTP queues, or for other: > configuration changes, please let me know here.  Thanks. >  > 
 > Regards, >  > Aldero >  >    -- pF Tony Arnold, Deputy to the Head of COS Division, Manchester Computing,: University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL.F T: +44 (0)161 275 6093, F: +44 (0)870 136 1004, M: +44 (0)773 330 0039E E-mail: tony.arnold@man.ac.uk, Home: http://www.man.ac.uk/Tony.Arnold_   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 22:39:27 GMT ( From: Phaeton   <spameater@spam.invalid>) Subject: Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again) 7 Message-ID: <z_kLb.6820$xm.321426@nasal.pacific.net.au>   ) Alder <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com> wrote:eD > Now why can't HP write documentation that makes this much sense ?! > 
 > Thanks, JF.- > N > I'll bang away at the TCPIP$HOST file some more and see how that works, then > post back the "results".  3 	Have you tried to define the SMTP trace logicals ?   # 	$DEFINE/SYS TCPIP$SMTP_LOG_LEVEL 3r$ 	$DEFINE/SYS TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_TRACE 1# 	$DEFINE/SYS TCPIP$SMTP_SMB_TRACE 1.= 	( Stop SMTP first, define the logicals, start it up again. )3  9 	The verbose logfiles might show what it is trying to do.y> 	After troubleshooting, don't forget to deassign the logicals. 	Hope this helps...u 							Cheers,   Csaba  J  -------------------------------------------------------------------------H   CSABA I. HARANGOZO  |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|  csabah(at)zipworld(dot)com(dot)auJ  -------------------------------------------------------------------------;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:D    Wood's Axiom :aI   As soon as a still-to-be-finished computer task becomes a life-or-deathr%           situation, the power fails.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:18:12 -0500t* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>) Subject: Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again) ) Message-ID: <3FFDE529.E6BA7A95@istop.com>4   Alder wrote: > N > Still no joy.  I added "EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET" to my TCPIP$HOST file and checked > the name resolution: >   > $ TCPIP PING erebus.homeip.net5 > PING EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET (192.168.0.3): 56 data byteso8 > 64 bytes from 192.168.0.3: icmp_seq=0 ttl=64 time=1 ms  M For email, the SMTP server usually tries for an MX record first. Only if none ! is found does it try an A record.e  L Try $TCPIP SET MX_RECORD EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET /GATEWAY=hostname /PREFERENCE=100  L where "hostname" is the *name* (not IP address) of the host in your intranet you want the mail delivered to.r  2 you can use SHOW MX_RECORD to make sure it worked.  N You can also look at my site, I have a SMTP comfile pre-populated with all theG documented logicals and documentation on the logging. You might want tof increase logging to maximum.+ http://vaxination.dyndns.org/vms/index.htmlL   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 15:53:11 -0800* From: "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com>) Subject: Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)0+ Message-ID: <3ffded67$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>p  6 "Tony Arnold" <tony.arnold@man.ac.uk> wrote in message3 news:btkmeb$86kc9$1@ID-207001.news.uni-berlin.de...e > Alder, >xJ > SO far as I can see your configuration should work! Have you checked forI > problems with the end user account, e.g., quotas, is SET FORWARD set torE > anything etc? Are you certain the stuck message is the one that gotpF > delivered ans is not a return message of some kind that is not goingG > anywhere? Do you have a POSTMASTER alias set up and does that receivef > anything?u >d  
 Thanks, Tony.n  K Good ideas.  I've checked or verified each of them and nothing looks amiss.?   Cheers,E AlderE   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 15:58:53 -0800* From: "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com>) Subject: Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again) + Message-ID: <3ffdeebc$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>l  	 Hi Chris,r  E "Barratt, Chris (FMC)" <Chris.Barratt@fmc.sa.gov.au> wrote in messageiJ news:E829CF9B8F94014887EBC61E1951B0CE01F9BE1C@sagemshs001.fmc.sa.gov.au... > Hi Alder,a > = >  We had a similar problem a year or so ago. There was a VMSa= >  patch that came out to fix it, so I would suggest ensuring  >  your patches are up to date..  K Should be, I'm running version 5.4 of TCP/IP Services.  I think it's only a  couple of months old.i   >m= >  From memory, there was a problem with delivering an AST orn@ >  something. In the case of SMTP mail, when an email came in it? >  tried to send the "New mail" message to the user and hung asI9 >  you described because it couldn't deliver the message.   H I guess the difference is that in my case the mail IS delivered; but the queue entry never gets removed.e   Thanks," AlderI   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 15:59:25 -0800* From: "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com>) Subject: Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)x+ Message-ID: <3ffdeedc$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>   I I did have the two logs enabled, with LOG LEVEL set to 3, but they didn't F seem much use.  The RECV log doesn't indicate any problems, presumablyG because the receiver is successfully queuing incoming mail.  Here's the1 latest one:b   $ type TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG
 $ Set NoOn/ $ VERIFY = F$VERIFY(F$TRNLNM("SYLOGIN_VERIFY"))-8   TCPIP$SMTP   job terminated at  8-JAN-2004 14:39:38.20     Accounting information:rJ   Buffered I/O count:                291      Peak working set size:  7888J   Direct I/O count:                   87      Peak virtual size:    188496J   Page faults:                       816      Mounted volumes:           0J   Charged CPU time:        0 00:00:00.78      Elapsed time:    00:02:55.79  @ The SYMB log spits out my configuration, but not much on errors:   $ type TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOGu  I Dump of log snapshot buffer follows (smtp$symb_condh dumping log snapshot. buffer)n Snapshot buffer is empty End Dump of log snapshot buffere  D %%%%%%%%%%%%                    8-JAN-2004 13:14:57.32  %%%%%%%%%%%%$ %TCPIP-I-SMTP_LOGSUC, using log file/ SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOG   I Dump of log snapshot buffer follows (smtp$symb_condh dumping log snapshotm buffer)l   TCPIP SMTP configuration data:& Server-Nodes                  : SZEGED4 Queue-Name                    : TCPIP$SMTP_SZEGED_00 Alternate-Gateway             :l General-Gateway               :E Substitute-Domain             :t Zone                          :9* Postmaster-Alias              : Postmaster& Postmaster-Forwards-To        : SYSTEM Foreign-Transport-Synonyms    :o- Initial-Interval              : 0 00:30:00.00e- Retry-Interval                : 0 01:00:00.00s- Retry-Maximum                 : 3 00:00:00.00a! Receive-Timeout               : 5p" Retry-Address                 : 16" Hop-Count                     : 16! Symbiont-Snapshot-Blocks      : 0o! Receiver-Snapshot-Blocks      : 0v! Utilities-Snapshot-Blocks     : 0Y! Send-Timeout-Init             : 5,! Send-Timeout-Mail             : 5r! Send-Timeout-Rcpt             : 5.! Send-Timeout-Data             : 3e" Send-Timeout-Term             : 10! Log-Level                     : 3.! Receiver-Debug                : 0 ! Receiver-Trace                : 0u! Symbiont-Debug                : 0d! Symbiont-Trace                : 1 ! Utilities-Debug               : 0g! Utilities-Trace               : 0 ! EF-Debug-Level                : 0g! Channel-Debug-Level           : 0 # Header-Placement              : TOPO% Eightbit                      : FALSE.% Relay                         : FALSEB% Altgate-Always                : FALSE % Mx-If-Noaltgate               : FALSEx$ No-Mx                         : TRUE% No-Subs-Domain-Inbound        : FALSET$ Smtp-Jacket-Local             : TRUE$ Cent-Sign-Hack                : TRUE% Nosey                         : FALSE % Log-Line-Numbers              : FALSEe% Memory-Debug                  : FALSEw% Mail$Protocol-Debug           : FALSEn% CF-Debug                      : FALSEt% Parse-Debug                   : FALSEn% Deliver-VMS-Def-To            : FALSEe% Deliver-NoXVMS                : FALSEP% MTS-From-Hack                 : FALSEn% Rewrite-MTS-From              : FALSE $ Local-Alias-Only              : TRUE% Relay-Based-On-Mx             : FALSEC% Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP  : FALSEs% Accept-Unqualified-Senders    : FALSEC% Accept-Unresolvable-Domains   : FALSE $ SFF-Requires-Priv             : TRUE% 8BitMIME-Hack                 : FALSEL% Suppress-Version-Info         : FALSE   " Other TCPIP SMTP environment data:* SMTP Software Username        : TCPIP$SMTP9 SMTP Software Default Director: SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]P Symbiont Log File             :P/ SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOGK   List of (1) local aliases: EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET"  C Ordered list of gateways for relaying mail to alternate gateway ():K Number of MX entries: 0P- Expiration Date:      17-NOV-1858 00:00:00.00C End Dump of log snapshot buffer.  D %%%%%%%%%%%%                    8-JAN-2004 13:15:04.09  %%%%%%%%%%%%I %TCPIP-I-SMTP_SYMBRUN, symbiont is running the queue TCPIP$SMTP_SZEGED_01S     Thanks,k   Alderb  3 "Phaeton" <spameater@spam.invalid> wrote in message11 news:z_kLb.6820$xm.321426@nasal.pacific.net.au...h+ > Alder <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com> wrote: F > > Now why can't HP write documentation that makes this much sense ?! > >  > > Thanks, JF.s > >uK > > I'll bang away at the TCPIP$HOST file some more and see how that works,  then > > post back the "results". >E4 > Have you tried to define the SMTP trace logicals ? >b$ > $DEFINE/SYS TCPIP$SMTP_LOG_LEVEL 3% > $DEFINE/SYS TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_TRACE 1*$ > $DEFINE/SYS TCPIP$SMTP_SMB_TRACE 1> > ( Stop SMTP first, define the logicals, start it up again. ) >/: > The verbose logfiles might show what it is trying to do.? > After troubleshooting, don't forget to deassign the logicals.  > Hope this helps... > Cheers,   CsabaE >FL >  -------------------------------------------------------------------------J >   CSABA I. HARANGOZO  |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|  csabah(at)zipworld(dot)com(dot)auL >  -------------------------------------------------------------------------= >    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:  >  >  Wood's Axiom : K >   As soon as a still-to-be-finished computer task becomes a life-or-deathc' >           situation, the power fails.3   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:40:51 +1030: From: "Barratt, Chris (FMC)" <Chris.Barratt@fmc.sa.gov.au>) Subject: RE: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)4P Message-ID: <E829CF9B8F94014887EBC61E1951B0CE01F9BE9A@sagemshs001.fmc.sa.gov.au>    C? > >  We had a similar problem a year or so ago. There was a VMS4? > >  patch that came out to fix it, so I would suggest ensuringn! > >  your patches are up to date.  > < > Should be, I'm running version 5.4 of TCP/IP Services.  I  > think it's only as > couple of months old.  >   9 I'm pretty sure the problem was with VMS not with TCP/IP.nF I found something in my records which indicated the problems were with9 IO_ROUTINES.EXE, IO_ROUTINES.STB, IO_ROUTINES_MON.EXE and5% IO_ROUTINES_MON.STB (from [SYS$LDR]).G  I We had the problem in Dec-2002 and a patch was released soon after that I G believe. Guess you should have it if you have the latest VMS_UPDATE and  VMS_SYS patches.   > >t? > >  From memory, there was a problem with delivering an AST or B > >  something. In the case of SMTP mail, when an email came in itA > >  tried to send the "New mail" message to the user and hung as ; > >  you described because it couldn't deliver the message.e > 8 > I guess the difference is that in my case the mail IS  > delivered; but the! > queue entry never gets removed.a  C Sorry, I wasn't clear. In our case the email was delivered, but the J notification message could not be (irrespective of whether user was loggedG in at the time), hence the queue entry did not complete and went into au "hung" state.    Cheers,w chris    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 17:15:48 -0800* From: "Alder" <MUNDDGNTDYTV@spammotel.com>) Subject: Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)l+ Message-ID: <3ffe00c3$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>:   Thanks again, JF.   B OK, I've cranked up logging to level 5 and added the MX record youK suggested.  Given these changes, it seemed appropriate to also deassign theN: logicals TCPIP$SMTP_NO_MX and TCPIP$SMTP_LOCAL_ALIAS_ONLY.  L I then grabbed the SYMB logfile immediately after starting SMTP.  It's kindaJ interesting in spots, like where it says there are no MX records, and thatH it's "out of AST".  No (obvious) mention of why the execution queue gets+ seized up, though.  Here's the gory detail:s   $ TYPE TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOGm  I Dump of log snapshot buffer follows (smtp$symb_condh dumping log snapshot  buffer)  Snapshot buffer is empty End Dump of log snapshot buffern    D %%%%%%%%%%%%                    8-JAN-2004 17:01:30.10  %%%%%%%%%%%%$ %TCPIP-I-SMTP_LOGSUC, using log file/ SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOG4  I Dump of log snapshot buffer follows (smtp$symb_condh dumping log snapshot  buffer)P" #smtp_symbiont\465:SMB_DEBUG=65535   TCPIP SMTP configuration data:& Server-Nodes                  : SZEGED4 Queue-Name                    : TCPIP$SMTP_SZEGED_00 Alternate-Gateway             :d General-Gateway               :t Substitute-Domain             :s Zone                          : * Postmaster-Alias              : Postmaster& Postmaster-Forwards-To        : SYSTEM Foreign-Transport-Synonyms    :_- Initial-Interval              : 0 00:30:00.00e- Retry-Interval                : 0 01:00:00.00r- Retry-Maximum                 : 3 00:00:00.00m! Receive-Timeout               : 5m" Retry-Address                 : 16" Hop-Count                     : 16! Symbiont-Snapshot-Blocks      : 0l! Receiver-Snapshot-Blocks      : 0 ! Utilities-Snapshot-Blocks     : 0r! Send-Timeout-Init             : 5 ! Send-Timeout-Mail             : 5o! Send-Timeout-Rcpt             : 5d! Send-Timeout-Data             : 3s" Send-Timeout-Term             : 10! Log-Level                     : 5e! Receiver-Debug                : 0I! Receiver-Trace                : 0L! Symbiont-Debug                : 0n! Symbiont-Trace                : 1 ! Utilities-Debug               : 0u! Utilities-Trace               : 0e! EF-Debug-Level                : 0e! Channel-Debug-Level           : 0T# Header-Placement              : TOPe% Eightbit                      : FALSEo% Relay                         : FALSEo% Altgate-Always                : FALSE % Mx-If-Noaltgate               : FALSEe% No-Mx                         : FALSE % No-Subs-Domain-Inbound        : FALSEu$ Smtp-Jacket-Local             : TRUE$ Cent-Sign-Hack                : TRUE% Nosey                         : FALSEc% Log-Line-Numbers              : FALSE!% Memory-Debug                  : FALSEh% Mail$Protocol-Debug           : FALSE % CF-Debug                      : FALSEs% Parse-Debug                   : FALSE-% Deliver-VMS-Def-To            : FALSE0% Deliver-NoXVMS                : FALSEN% MTS-From-Hack                 : FALSEC% Rewrite-MTS-From              : FALSE3% Local-Alias-Only              : FALSE % Relay-Based-On-Mx             : FALSE % Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP  : FALSEe% Accept-Unqualified-Senders    : FALSEe% Accept-Unresolvable-Domains   : FALSE.$ SFF-Requires-Priv             : TRUE% 8BitMIME-Hack                 : FALSE % Suppress-Version-Info         : FALSEl  " Other TCPIP SMTP environment data:* SMTP Software Username        : TCPIP$SMTP9 SMTP Software Default Director: SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]a Symbiont Log File             :m/ SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOG    List of (5) local aliases: EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET 	 localhosts localhost.erebus.homeip.net  SZEGED szeged.erebus.homeip.net  C Ordered list of gateways for relaying mail to alternate gateway ():z Number of MX entries: 0Z- Expiration Date:      17-NOV-1858 00:00:00.00A= #smtp_symbiont\503:SYS$SCRATCH (On entry to symbiont)  st:444 5 #smtp_symbiont\1479 :*******Process Statistics*******  SYS$OUTPUT = _NLA0: 9 SYS$INPUT = _NLA0:QMAN00000052_00000062.SYS$QUEUE_MANAGERe SYS$ERROR = _NLA0:+ accnt <start>   astcnt 10240    astlm 10240T authpri 4       biolm 600 ) filcnt 193      fillm 200       jobtype 0p/ owner 0 uaf 0   uic 65540       username SYSTEMb: curpriv=203015E081 imagpriv=0000000000 procpriv=203015E081 authpriv=2000004001 < #smtp_symbiont\1510 :*******End of Process Statistics*******8 #smtp_symbiont\587:SYS$SCRATCH SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]. #smtp_symbiont\591:DBG$OUTPUT SYS$OUTPUT: st:1, #smtp_symbiont\596:DBG$INPUT SYS$INPUT: st:1$ #smtp_symbiont\601:SYS$LOGIN  st:444F BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.SMTP]SMTP_SYMBIONT.C;1: Symbiont activatedD #smtp_symbiont\623:Waiting for the job controller to start the queue #smtp_symbiont\747:ast_handler$ #smtp_symbiont\753:read_message st:1  #smtp_symbiont\781: start_stream! #smtp_symbiont\967:unpack_message * #smtp_symbiont\975:item 9 status 1 size 20+ #smtp_symbiont\975:item 12 status 1 size 20g- SMBMSG$K_EXECUTOR_QUEUE: TCPIP$SMTP_SZEGED_01 + #smtp_symbiont\975:item 29 status 1 size 25 ' #smtp_symbiont\1363:smtp$send_to_jobctlu+ #smtp_symbiont\1386:smb$send_to_jobctl st:1i$ #smtp_symbiont\1187:smtp$init_stream# #smtp_symbiont\1207:sys$setprn st:1  #smtp_symbiont\917:out of ASTS+ #smtp_symbiont\629: Symbiont is initializedlL smtp$symb condh entered with condition code. %TCPIP-I-SMTP_SYMBRUN, symbiont is running the queue !AS  End Dump of log snapshot bufferp    D %%%%%%%%%%%%                    8-JAN-2004 17:01:42.58  %%%%%%%%%%%%I %TCPIP-I-SMTP_SYMBRUN, symbiont is running the queue TCPIP$SMTP_SZEGED_01    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 22:05:20 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>) Subject: Re: HP TCPIP SMTP Queues (again)t) Message-ID: <3FFE1A56.7558D368@istop.com>l   Alder wrote:N > I then grabbed the SYMB logfile immediately after starting SMTP.  It's kindaL > interesting in spots, like where it says there are no MX records, and thatJ > it's "out of AST".  No (obvious) mention of why the execution queue gets- > seized up, though.  Here's the gory detail:S  ' > Relay                         : FALSEc' > Local-Alias-Only              : FALSEa  = You may want the relay to be true as well as local_alias-only   ' > Nosey                         : FALSEo  I You need to set the right logical for this. This will show you details ofF messages coming in.    > Number of MX entries: 0   + I don't think that this is an error message    > #smtp_symbiont\917:out of AST     K What we really need to see is the log entries for one specific message that  you know will hang.o  K And you will also want to set the receiver logging and provide the relevanteS contents of the TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG (one is created for each message received).r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:45:53 -0500E* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>+ Subject: Re: hype (was: password questions)P) Message-ID: <3FFC8C1F.27F2C297@istop.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:< > The viability of reusable passwords has reached its limit.  I You know, I've been using the same passwords for about 15 years now. Same , password on my ATM card for even more years.  N If you find a good one, never give it out and never write it anywhere, and theD password is not guessable, then why change it at regular intervals ?  M The problem in a corporation is that you cannot expect all the staff to be so7G respectful of a password and a boss will often give his password to theeN secretary so she can clean up his desktop/emails, or a secretary will give her> password out to someone else while she is on vacation etc etc.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:43:29 -0000* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>+ Subject: Re: hype (was: password questions)++ Message-ID: <btjc8t$kmm@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>r  [ "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:3FFC8C1F.27F2C297@istop.com...E  P > If you find a good one, never give it out and never write it anywhere, and theF > password is not guessable, then why change it at regular intervals ?  @ Ever used a non-encrypted network connection? Logged on remotelyB from a system not under your control? Used a wireless keyboard, orE a normal keyboard that someone else could have installed a keylogger?t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 06:18:05 -0500u* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>+ Subject: Re: hype (was: password questions)e) Message-ID: <3FFD3C34.EABF1EF1@istop.com>d   Richard Brodie wrote:cB > Ever used a non-encrypted network connection? Logged on remotelyD > from a system not under your control? Used a wireless keyboard, orG > a normal keyboard that someone else could have installed a keylogger?m  G Yes. It is called the internet. There are accounts which don't have any N information value. And for accounts that grant access to valuable information,) one generally has proper trusted network.h  L Yes, there have been occasions where I was forced to use a complex password,K and the later (or my half of it) was stored in a safe and used only rarely.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 22:30:11 -0800s% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> + Subject: Re: hype (was: password questions)n( Message-ID: <3FFCF8F3.2050404@rdrop.com>   Rob Young wrote:F > I think this password thing will quickly fade.  Won't be long beforeB > Dell incorporates a fingerprint scanner that ties in directly to
 > Windows.  I Such things have existed for over five years, back to WinNT 4.0 I've got O8 one, somewhere. It was a $250/workstation solution then.  I But single-finger fingerprints provide an annoyingly high false-positive aC rate for the uses I have for them; the iris of the human eye is as  = unique and easier to nail down, or so they "experts" tell me.r   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 05:43:22 -0800H( From: stevekulpa@yahoo.com (steve kulpa)* Subject: I just scored an AlphaServer 800!= Message-ID: <ee336853.0401080543.3bfb950a@posting.google.com>n  + I just scored the sweetest deal of my life:u    AlphaServer 800/550       512MB, 3x4.3GB HDD, SCSI    TZ88 Tape Drive (tabletop)m    17" Monitor     OpenVMS v7 Doc Kit (complete)   All this for $150!!!  > Now the sad part - I need software.  I remember looking at theE hobbyist program a while back and when I checked into it again, I nowtB see that you have to join DECUS (or Encompass, whatever).  I was aE DECUS member for years in the past and never remember having to pay a6F fee.  I see where Encompass requires a $90/year fee, plus the hobbyist license fees on top of that.  ? Is this the only way to get these licenses?  I realize that the D $90/year fee is nothing compared to what this software used to cost,< but I'm a cheap-ass and always on the lookout to save money.  : I'm looking for VMS, FMS, FORTRAN, C, Pascal, TCP/IP, etc.   thanks for any help here,  Steve    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 13:48:56 GMT + From: Ken Robinson <sendspamhere@rbnsn.com> . Subject: Re: I just scored an AlphaServer 800!@ Message-ID: <d24d96c7fce033339fa86e0fd66b2b60@news.teranews.com>  , stevekulpa@yahoo.com (steve kulpa) wrote in 5 news:ee336853.0401080543.3bfb950a@posting.google.com:   H > fee.  I see where Encompass requires a $90/year fee, plus the hobbyist > license fees on top of that.  F There is an Associate Membership option in EncompassUS which is FREE. - That's all you need for the Hobbyist program."   Ken Robinson   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 12:07:07 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)N. Subject: Re: I just scored an AlphaServer 800!3 Message-ID: <zG7ps0p4UuKi@eisner.encompasserve.org>V  h In article <ee336853.0401080543.3bfb950a@posting.google.com>, stevekulpa@yahoo.com (steve kulpa) writes: > @ > Now the sad part - I need software.  I remember looking at theG > hobbyist program a while back and when I checked into it again, I nowLD > see that you have to join DECUS (or Encompass, whatever).  I was aG > DECUS member for years in the past and never remember having to pay amH > fee.  I see where Encompass requires a $90/year fee, plus the hobbyist > license fees on top of that.  E    See the FAQ.  You can be an associate member, it's free.  There issI    no hobbyist license fee.  You can, if you need it, purchase a hobbyist.G    CD which has the OS and popular layered products, or you can get the H    real distribution elsewhere.  Like many hobbyists, I borrow mine from    someone else.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 13:36:53 -0500< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>. Subject: Re: I just scored an AlphaServer 800!9 Message-ID: <btk806$83vin$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>v   steve kulpa wrote:- > I just scored the sweetest deal of my life:  >    AlphaServer 800/550  >       512MB, 3x4.3GB HDD, SCSI >    TZ88 Tape Drive (tabletop)v >    17" Monitor" >    OpenVMS v7 Doc Kit (complete) >  > All this for $150!!! > ..._  > You're right, getting the hobbyist license will cost too much,< I'll buy the whole setup off you for $155 (you'll make $5.00 off the deal).  > (Shhhhhhhhhh, Please, nobody else tell him that he can get the> hobbyist license for free by signing up as an Associate Member< at https://secure2.sba.com/encompass/memberApp/associate.cfm> and please, nobody tell him that if he posts his location then> there would probably be someone close to him who will loan him> the CD set or at worst someone who will mail him a set for the> cost of postage. I would love to get that for $155 or $500, or even $1000 would be a deal):   -- 0 Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.. Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.cac   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 11:11:09 -0800M( From: stevekulpa@yahoo.com (steve kulpa). Subject: Re: I just scored an AlphaServer 800!= Message-ID: <ee336853.0401081111.55878c07@posting.google.com>   9 Ken Robinson <sendspamhere@rbnsn.com> wrote in message > 0H > There is an Associate Membership option in EncompassUS which is FREE. / > That's all you need for the Hobbyist program.  >  > Ken Robinson    8 Great!  I guess I missed that when I visited their site. Thanks Ken!    stevea   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 19:12:25 -0500I- From: Steve Kulpa <stevekulpaFUDGE@yahoo.com>Y. Subject: Re: I just scored an AlphaServer 800!8 Message-ID: <e7srvvs3kbcdrgroneug51ogmu6vtvk1fd@4ax.com>  1 On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 13:36:53 -0500, "Peter Weaver"T. <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> wrote:  ? >(Shhhhhhhhhh, Please, nobody else tell him that he can get the ? >hobbyist license for free by signing up as an Associate Member-= >at https://secure2.sba.com/encompass/memberApp/associate.cfmt? >and please, nobody tell him that if he posts his location thenZ? >there would probably be someone close to him who will loan himl? >the CD set or at worst someone who will mail him a set for they? >cost of postage. I would love to get that for $155 or $500, ors >even $1000 would be a deal)    F You mean if I were to post on c.o.v. and say something like "I live inE Knoxville, TN and I was wondering if someone nearby had a hobbyist CD B I could borrow", there would be a chance that someone would reply?   Hmmm,u< I'll have to give it a try.  Thanks for the suggestion Peter   steven   Steve Kulpaw
 Knoxville, TNn VAX/VMS fan since Version 2    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 19:14:39 -0500M- From: Steve Kulpa <stevekulpaFUDGE@yahoo.com>p. Subject: Re: I just scored an AlphaServer 800!8 Message-ID: <ifsrvvgskku8n22gcorovjhi429uofnijs@4ax.com>   > ? >(Shhhhhhhhhh, Please, nobody else tell him that he can get thet? >hobbyist license for free by signing up as an Associate Member = >at https://secure2.sba.com/encompass/memberApp/associate.cfm ? >and please, nobody tell him that if he posts his location thenH? >there would probably be someone close to him who will loan himn? >the CD set or at worst someone who will mail him a set for thee? >cost of postage. I would love to get that for $155 or $500, orn >even $1000 would be a deal)  C Shhhh, don't tell Peter that if having this thing at home is not asoB fun as I had hoped, I'd be looking to unload it and would conciderE giving him first refusal.  Of course, it's be a lot more than $150!!!   D I can't believe that my employer let me STEAL this machine for $150.   Steve Kulpan
 Knoxville, TNo VAX/VMS fan since Version 2    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jan 2004 14:31:59 -0800 % From: whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips)I/ Subject: Re: Is VMS 7.1-2 as stable as 7.1-1H2?i= Message-ID: <af0dc2ea.0401071431.370dd3ad@posting.google.com>   l bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message news:<d7791aa1.0312291747.f8d5b3b@posting.google.com>... <...>0A > to pay certain vendors upgrade fees for some software we run in B > order to go to 7.2 or 7.3 (i.e. synergy), so this would save us  > a lot of money <...>    Bob,  B Just curious as to which Synergy products and/or versions you have0 that won't move up to 7.2 and 7.3 without a fee?   $! Doug Phillips $! $ YouKnow = "@"eA $ HereOrThere = "ka2doug" + YouKnow + "cs.compuserve" - "puserve"i $ show symbol HereOrThere    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 07:56:57 -0800M. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: My Holiday Wishes= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0401080756.52f4f08a@posting.google.com>$  ^ Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote in message news:<3fec801d$0$17138$626a54ce@news.free.fr>... > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > a > > Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote in message news:<3febe661$0$1181$636a55ce@news.free.fr>...  > >  > >>David J. Dachtera wrote: > >>G > >>>My wish for the group and for all with whom we share this world isT > >>>simple: > >>>P > >>>Peace in our days.  > >>>P$ > >>>Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum. > >> > >>Et cum spiritu tuo.  > >> > >>(this one was easy :-) > >> > >>D. > >>Deo omnis gloria > >  > > ! > > Revertere ad lucum tuum ! :-)T > ' > But before... Introibo ad altare Dei.P >  > D.    ! I know this is a week late, but, S       Happy Gregorian New Year!Y     Alan E. FeldmanP   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 19:15:31 -0600W@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: My Holiday Wishes6 Message-ID: <3FFE00B3.21F818F6@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > [snip]" > I know this is a week late, but, >  >     Happy Gregorian New Year!   ! Hey - better late than never, eh?.   -- Z David J. DachteraN dba DJE Systems. http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 23:41:12 -0600 ( From: Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net>% Subject: Re: MySQL 4.0.17 for OpenVMSo2 Message-ID: <e6ecneL3etOFs2OiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>   jf.pieronne@laposte.net wrote:2 > MySQL 4.0.17 is the latest MySQL stable version. > 4 > The kit also include the client shareable library. > K > Download from http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/kits/ or any of the   > two mirrors. >  > Jean-FranoisE  C Thank you kindly!  Only I haven't had time to install 4.0.16 yet...Y  & I think you may be porting too fast ;)   Rich JordanH   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:30:38 +0100( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>$ Subject: New kernel LINUX kernel bug: Message-ID: <MCELKPMOKPMNDNKJNIONCEJECIAA.win@fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  K there is a new LINUX security bug register within the newsside BUGTRAQ. ThefN function do_mremap does not check the parameters well. In case of this you can get root rights.   Best regards R. Wingert1   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 13:23:54 -0800s. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)8 Subject: Non-WS Process Quotas not in Performance Manual= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0401081323.2bbf489b@posting.google.com>4  = Why aren't process quotas like DIOlm, BIOlm, ASTlm, etc., notr$ discussed in the performance manual?   Thanks.W     Alan E. Feldman2   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 22:49:36 +0000 ) From: Tony Arnold <tony.arnold@man.ac.uk>m< Subject: Re: Non-WS Process Quotas not in Performance Manual9 Message-ID: <btkmq1$85nus$1@ID-207001.news.uni-berlin.de>    Alan,    Alan E. Feldman wrote:  ? > Why aren't process quotas like DIOlm, BIOlm, ASTlm, etc., notP& > discussed in the performance manual?  D Good question, but do these params actually affect performance very H much? My expereince is that if the value is too small, the process runs F out and you get an error (quota exceeded, but you typically don't get C told which one, you have to figure it out!) or they are big enough!n  @ I guess BACKUP looks at these things and adjusts its activities = accordingly, but I think most applications aren't this smart.+   Regards, Tony.  -- lF Tony Arnold, Deputy to the Head of COS Division, Manchester Computing,: University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL.F T: +44 (0)161 275 6093, F: +44 (0)870 136 1004, M: +44 (0)773 330 0039E E-mail: tony.arnold@man.ac.uk, Home: http://www.man.ac.uk/Tony.Arnolde   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 21:40:06 -0800 7 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) < Subject: Re: Non-WS Process Quotas not in Performance Manual= Message-ID: <8a646952.0401082140.2b30d21b@posting.google.com>.  s spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<b096a4ee.0401081323.2bbf489b@posting.google.com>...T? > Why aren't process quotas like DIOlm, BIOlm, ASTlm, etc., notP& > discussed in the performance manual? > 	 > Thanks.T >  >  > Alan E. Feldmanh   Dear Alan E.Feldman:  D As you have stated, these are process quotas that are set and during@ an execution of an image in the parent or the child process, the@ parent process quotas are consumed. If these quotas are consumedB completely, the process will exit with quota exceeded as stated byE Tony Arnold. These quotas can be seen being consumed via DECamds. The > process quotas are discussed in detailed on Backup PerformanceD document dated 1989 found in the DSIN. The document found in the VMSE System Manager Guide doesn't go into the detail as this article does.- I hope this helps.     Regards, Daryl Jones0   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 13:25:07 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>-5 Subject: RE: number of ethernet adapters in a cluster R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB1E1321@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   >=20> > Again, this may or may not be an option for Phillip whose=202 > hardware is quite old, e.g., VAXstation 4000/60! >=20 > Tony.. > --@ > Tony Arnold, Deputy to the Head of COS Division, Manchester=20G > Computing, University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL.dH > T: +44 (0)161 275 6093, F: +44 (0)870 136 1004, M: +44 (0)773 330 0039G > E-mail: tony.arnold@man.ac.uk, Home: http://www.man.ac.uk/Tony.Arnoldn >=20 >=20  F Tony, My apologies - I thought he was talking about a work environment .r   :-)r   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanta HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcomg. (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 23:25:55 -0600-( From: Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net>5 Subject: Re: number of ethernet adapters in a clusterc2 Message-ID: <e6ecneP3etMYt2OiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>   JF Mezei wrote:g1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > H >>>>As I recall, most network vendor switches support VLAN technologies. >  > D >>Right, a hub (more precisely, a DECrepeater).  I do have a switch,F >>integrated into the DSL bridge thingy I used for internet access via( >>DSL, but it doesn't have enough ports. >  >  > O > Consumer switches or switches integrated into consumer routers are unmanaged,t- > and thus do not have any VLAN capabilities.T  C Some have a basic capability.  My current 'main' switch is a cheap  H Gigafast 16 port; it can be set up to provide multiple tiny VLANs using H dip switches.  Its _far_ less versatile than a real managed switch, but 
 it is usable.0   Rich Jordan0   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 23:13:01 GMTQ( From: Phaeton   <spameater@spam.invalid># Subject: Re: OpenVMS CertificationsB7 Message-ID: <1o0Lb.6745$xm.318219@nasal.pacific.net.au>i  / Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:F$ > How many guys here are certified ?  0 	:-) I guess a few of us are, or should be ! :-)
 								Csaba   J  -------------------------------------------------------------------------H   CSABA I. HARANGOZO  |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|  csabah(at)zipworld(dot)com(dot)auJ  -------------------------------------------------------------------------;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:m  E  A computer program will always do what you tell it to do, but rarelye    what you want to do.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 19:45:21 -0500m* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com># Subject: Re: OpenVMS Certificationst) Message-ID: <3FFCA817.DBFA0687@istop.com>n  & > > How many guys here are certified ?  % I've often been told I was certified.8   :-)m   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 02:10:55 GMTQ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)# Subject: Re: OpenVMS Certificationst9 Message-ID: <btie7f$7pi0d$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>   7 In article <1o0Lb.6745$xm.318219@nasal.pacific.net.au>, + 	Phaeton   <spameater@spam.invalid> writes:l1 > Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:b% >> How many guys here are certified ?e > 1 >	:-) I guess a few of us are, or should be ! :-)- > 								Csabaj  < They tell me I'm certifiable.  Is that the same thing??  :-)   bill   -- rJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 20:28:31 -0600o@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net># Subject: Re: OpenVMS Certificationsb6 Message-ID: <3FFCC04F.E4EE66C8@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Fabio Cardoso wrote: > % > How many guys here are certified ?    # I'm certifiable. Will that suffice?-   -- : David J. Dachtera% dba DJE Systems_ http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:26:24 -0600% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> # Subject: Re: OpenVMS Certifications 9 Message-ID: <kU5Lb.26990$VV4.21238@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>    Certifiable?  Yes!!a Certified?    No!   9 Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message 7 news:f30679fb.0401070807.373e602b@posting.google.com...t5 > How many guys here are certified ? Is is worthing ?y > B > I think I can get certified in the System Administration (Basic)0 > but the other Adv. Certification ... I doubt ! > D > a) I never worked/installed OpenVMS Clusters (just with standalone	 servers);  >  > b) I never worked with HSG80;  >   > c) I never worked with Galaxy; > " > d) I never worked with FastPath; > ? > e) I didn have the Internals Course (there isnt in S.America)   I The above description sounds a lot like me back in 00' before starting my E present position.  Now I work with multiple 2-node clusters using SAN K storage.  I am THE SAN goto person.  It's all a matter of what a particular C company is willing to train a person on.  Clustering and SAN is notdG difficult to learn.  Actually SAN technology makes clustering easier to  understand and implement!   L My managers/director do not expect an experienced VMS person to have had SANL experience.  We have picked up some great assets with no SAN experience.  CI7 yes, but not SAN.  (They did have internals experience)    > , > So it is becoming complicated to survive ! >A	 > Regards  >  > FC  
 Good Luck!   Mike   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 02:23:13 -0800 . From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)# Subject: Re: OpenVMS Certifications = Message-ID: <f30679fb.0401080223.477306af@posting.google.com>   f "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> wrote in message news:<kU5Lb.26990$VV4.21238@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>... > Certifiable?  Yes!!A > Certified?    No!- > ; > Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messageT9 > news:f30679fb.0401070807.373e602b@posting.google.com... 7 > > How many guys here are certified ? Is is worthing ?e > >aD > > I think I can get certified in the System Administration (Basic)2 > > but the other Adv. Certification ... I doubt ! > >aF > > a) I never worked/installed OpenVMS Clusters (just with standalone >  servers); > > ! > > b) I never worked with HSG80;  > > " > > c) I never worked with Galaxy; > >t$ > > d) I never worked with FastPath; > >MA > > e) I didn have the Internals Course (there isnt in S.America)b > K > The above description sounds a lot like me back in 00' before starting my G > present position.  Now I work with multiple 2-node clusters using SANsM > storage.  I am THE SAN goto person.  It's all a matter of what a particulariE > company is willing to train a person on.  Clustering and SAN is not.I > difficult to learn.  Actually SAN technology makes clustering easier toT > understand and implement!  > N > My managers/director do not expect an experienced VMS person to have had SANN > experience.  We have picked up some great assets with no SAN experience.  CI9 > yes, but not SAN.  (They did have internals experience)     E How can I work with SAN if the EMC guys  do all the hard-work  here ? B I just modify the logical names of the volumes after installing or; migrating the disk ... ! It is the "segmentation model"... s       > > . > > So it is becoming complicated to survive ! > >  > > Regards/ > >C > > FC >  > Good Luck!   For us too ! :-)   > Mike   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 13:22:44 GMTf( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)# Subject: Re: OpenVMS Certificationsh9 Message-ID: <btjlj4$7s58p$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>e  9 In article <kU5Lb.26990$VV4.21238@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, ( 	"Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> writes: > Certifiable?  Yes!!-  B It's so nice to see that so many of us here have at least this one thing in common.  :-)(   bill   -- -J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 07:21:34 -0800 - From: soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume)B# Subject: Re: OpenVMS Certificationsm= Message-ID: <f401eb7f.0401080721.7dc5460d@posting.google.com>g  s fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) wrote in message news:<f30679fb.0401070807.373e602b@posting.google.com>...o6 > How many guys here are certified ? Is is worthing ?  >    I have the following:s  ' Certified Systems Engineer - OpenVMS v7 , Certified Systems Administrator - OpenVMS v79 Accredited Integration Specialist - AlphaServer + OpenVMSs3 Accredited Systems Engineer - AlphaServer + OpenVMSS  E Do they mean I know anything more than most of the people here?  NO. r? In fact, I probably know less than most of the "old-timers." :)O  E Are they worth anything?  Yes!  I get about $900 off the registrationiF fees for HP World by being an ASE.  Plus, I get a lot of swag from the$ hp Certified room at the convention.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:26:41 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk># Subject: Re: OpenVMS Certificationsi/ Message-ID: <3FFD73AE.59D4631@blueyonder.co.uk>e   Mike Naime wrote:   g > N > My managers/director do not expect an experienced VMS person to have had SANN > experience.  We have picked up some great assets with no SAN experience.  CI9 > yes, but not SAN.  (They did have internals experience)e >   E try telling that to the recruitment industry, which seems to have hade an en mass lobotomy of late.   -- a tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 11:21:44 -0500< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca># Subject: Re: OpenVMS CertificationsT9 Message-ID: <btk02q$87alh$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>l   Fabio Cardoso wrote:5 > How many guys here are certified ? Is is worthing ?e >a: > I think I can get certified in the System Administration (Basic)i0 > but the other Adv. Certification ... I doubt ! >s9 > a) I never worked/installed OpenVMS Clusters (just withI
 standalone > servers);d >e > b) I never worked with HSG80;t >i  > c) I never worked with Galaxy; >s" > d) I never worked with FastPath; >X4 > e) I didn have the Internals Course (there isnt in
 S.America) >h, > So it is becoming complicated to survive ! >s	 > Regardse >l > FC  < The certification tests are really very easy, I did both the> Systems Administrator and Systems Engineer certifications, but; only because I was able to write the tests for free. At the%; time I wrote the tests I did have HSG80 and Galaxy exposure%8 but I do not remember a lot of questions about either of> those. I did not think I could pass the network test since (at: the time) I had not used UCX or DECNet V and the questions; were very specific to both UCX and phase V. There were somet> questions on Phase IV which I handled with no problems but few: TCP questions which were stack neutral, or questions like;  9         Where is the local host table stored? (Choose the : correct answer for the stack you are used to working with)!         1) UCX: SYS$SYSTEM:HOSTS.t"         2) UCX TCPIP$SYSTEM:HOSTS.&         3) UCX: TCPIP$SYSTEM:HOSTS.DAT%         4) TCPWare: SYS$SYSTEM:HOSTS.e"         5) TCPWare: TCPWARE:HOSTS.%         6) TCPWare: TCPWARE:HOSTS.DAT          7) Multinet: ...  < which would have been a lot better for me. But somehow I got= lucky enough on the UCX and DECNET V questions that I passed.s> As far as being worth it goes, I got a couple of nice pens and  a picture frame out of the deal.   --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.o Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 13:24:38 -0500 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com># Subject: Re: OpenVMS Certifications 8 Message-ID: <kr7rvvcu575qrfqlr0oa62tnboocv5f1ft@4ax.com>  M On 7 Jan 2004 08:07:28 -0800, fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) wrote:   5 >How many guys here are certified ? Is is worthing ? e  H I have SA for OpenVMS V7 and SE for OpenVMS V7. They don't mean anythingL practical to me in my job, but my boss was happy I got them. I have two nice& certificates on the "wall" of my cube.  N I was able to take the 3 tests (1 for SA, 2 for SE) for free, because I took aP couple of "beta exams" when they were being "field tested", including both testsJ required for the SE which I passed with no study. I failed a 3rd beta examO (Alpha hardware related) but got a coupon good for 1 free test, which I used toe4 take the SA test, which I also passed with no study.  M If I were to lose my job, maybe the certification might give me a slight edge 4 over someone without it, but I'm not counting on it.  M One thing that I like about the certification is that now I get a copy of thel6 Alpha SPL (aka CONDIST) CD's for free once a quarter. I -------------------------------------------------------------------------SI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comiI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)iI -------------------------------------------------------------------------r   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 16:00:31 -0800P1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) # Subject: Re: OpenVMS CertificationsT= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0401081600.5926ce2a@posting.google.com>   s fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) wrote in message news:<f30679fb.0401070807.373e602b@posting.google.com>...a6 > How many guys here are certified ? Is is worthing ?   E With the encouragement of many folks who told me I was certifiable, IRD got my Certified System Administrator and Certified Systems EngineerC certifications for OpenVMS v7.  Took the exams for free at European0A DECUS.  The certificates look nice on my cubicle wall, and I alsotC enjoyed getting the CONDIST/CONOLD for free.  Most folks here could1 get these two certifications.   D I'm working on a Master ASE now.  Took a couple of exams at HP World for half-price.0   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 18:58:04 -05002 From: "Chris Moore" <chrismichael000@sympatico.ca># Subject: Re: OpenVMS Certifications]; Message-ID: <67mLb.78630$BA6.1649063@news20.bellglobal.com>o  G "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> wrote in messageL3 news:btk02q$87alh$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de...o > Fabio Cardoso wrote:7 > > How many guys here are certified ? Is is worthing ?e > >t< > > I think I can get certified in the System Administration	 > (Basic)y2 > > but the other Adv. Certification ... I doubt ! > >g; > > a) I never worked/installed OpenVMS Clusters (just witht > standalone
 > > servers);g > >M! > > b) I never worked with HSG80;G > > " > > c) I never worked with Galaxy; > >e$ > > d) I never worked with FastPath; > >t6 > > e) I didn have the Internals Course (there isnt in > S.America) > >i. > > So it is becoming complicated to survive ! > >t > > Regards7 > >o > > FC >t> > The certification tests are really very easy, I did both the@ > Systems Administrator and Systems Engineer certifications, but= > only because I was able to write the tests for free. At the%= > time I wrote the tests I did have HSG80 and Galaxy exposureT: > but I do not remember a lot of questions about either of@ > those. I did not think I could pass the network test since (at< > the time) I had not used UCX or DECNet V and the questions= > were very specific to both UCX and phase V. There were some3@ > questions on Phase IV which I handled with no problems but few< > TCP questions which were stack neutral, or questions like; >e; >         Where is the local host table stored? (Choose the < > correct answer for the stack you are used to working with)# >         1) UCX: SYS$SYSTEM:HOSTS.t$ >         2) UCX TCPIP$SYSTEM:HOSTS.( >         3) UCX: TCPIP$SYSTEM:HOSTS.DAT' >         4) TCPWare: SYS$SYSTEM:HOSTS. $ >         5) TCPWare: TCPWARE:HOSTS.' >         6) TCPWare: TCPWARE:HOSTS.DAT  >         7) Multinet: ... >o> > which would have been a lot better for me. But somehow I got? > lucky enough on the UCX and DECNET V questions that I passed. @ > As far as being worth it goes, I got a couple of nice pens and" > a picture frame out of the deal. >o > --   > Peter Weaver! > Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  > Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXl > www.weaverconsulting.cav >l >i  C And he's still resentful that I got a nice leatherette portfolio aso well...........lol   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 15:08:47 -0800,1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)eY Subject: Oracle Rdb on GS1280 with 7.3-2 exceeds 1 million transactions per minute using 7= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0401081508.2b02c5ac@posting.google.com>f  E HP OpenVMS operating system and Oracle Rdb software break performanceh barriers by Marc Courchesne  D Recent performance tests of Oracle Rdb version 7.1.2 and HP OpenVMS= version 7.3-2 running on an HP AlphaServer GS1280 system have,> demonstrated breakthrough transaction performance for a singleD 32-processor symmetric multiprocessing (SMP) machine configured withC 256 gigabytes of main memory. The AlphaServer system, together witho? Oracle Rdb software, achieved sustained throughput of 1,010,160 B database transactions per minute. In this test, five tables with aD total of one billion (109) rows were created and their contents wereF mapped in main memory using Oracle Rdb's Row Cache feature. This test,@ designed to explore the limits of the Row Cache feature, was notF highly optimized for performance, but additional performance tuning is; likely to result in even higher transaction rates. This newmB implementation of Row Cache, first available in Oracle Rdb version@ 7.1.2, allows customers to fully utilize all the physical memoryE present in the largest AlphaServer systems for caching databases thatiE retain complete transaction integrity and full recovery from process,rC disk, or system failure. The OpenVMS version 7.3-2 operating systemsF provides a number of key features for improved scheduling and resourceA utilization that enhance scaling on systems with many processors.>0 These features were fully utilized in this test.  ) For more information, visit HP's site at i5 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/oracle/index.htmlr/ and Oracle's site at http://www.oracle.com/rdb/  ---n@ Note: This test does not reflect tpm-C or tpm-H results. --Keith   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 19:59:39 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>5 Subject: Re: OT: What M$ and IBM know that hp doesn't 6 Message-ID: <3FFCB98B.1A024EEF@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:# > > This arrived in my inbox today:aA > > http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/01/06/HNmslinuxads_1.html  > G > This is pretty much irrelevant to us since VMS isn't in the running. r   Well, yes and no.a  G While the subject line of the article relates to Linux Vs. M$, the body3 of the article talks about ...   Are you ready for this?h   ... __M_A_R_K_E_T_I_N_G__ !!!d  / See? Even THIS *GROUP* can't grasp the concept!g   Is there *NO* hope??!!   -- c David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 20:18:35 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>5 Subject: Re: OT: What M$ and IBM know that hp doesn'tr6 Message-ID: <3FFCBDFB.A9C24CC0@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Bob Koehler wrote: > { > In article <3FFB84C8.3C9B2FC6@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:. > # > > This arrived in my inbox today: A > > http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/01/06/HNmslinuxads_1.html5 >   >    I prefer the Budweiser ads.    ...or the Swedish Bikini Team...   -- r David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:49:46 GMTv) From: "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com>I! Subject: Re: Problem with CSWS V2h4 Message-ID: <u_eLb.11856$763.10727@news.cpqcorp.net>  J Did you end up with more than one version of SYS$STARTUP:APACHE$CONFIG.COM after the upgrade?  
 Rick Barry OpenVMS System Software Groupa Hewlett-Packard Companyf
 Nashua, NH  C "Tom Simpson" <thomas.simpson1@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message ' news:otmKb.70786$xX.458820@attbi_s02...'# > Yes.  I upgraded CSWS 1.3 to 2.0.a >l
 > Regards, > Tomh >s6 > "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com> wrote in message/ > news:QDkKb.11610$fX7.9386@news.cpqcorp.net...rK > > That message is output from CSWS 1.3's APACHE$CONFIG.COM procedure. Didh > you ! > > upgrade from CSWS 1.3 to 2.0?9 > >0 > > Rick Barry! > > OpenVMS System Software Groupm > > Hewlett-Packard Companys > > Nashua, NH > >3G > > "Tom Simpson" <thomas.simpson1@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message$- > > news:LN4Hb.143681$8y1.426900@attbi_s52...oL > > > I have installed the latest release of the CSWS (v2.0) software and amL > > > getting an error attempting to run the configuration utility after the@ > > > installation.   The installation goes smoothly, no errors. > > > J > > > The next step (I thought) was to run the APACHE$CONFIG program.  I'm
 > > takingL > > > all the default answers for the configuration questions and everything > is0 > > > fine until I get to the following section: > > > .aJ > > > Setting ownership on files.  This could take a minute or two.  . . . > > >mJ > > > ERROR: Missing file APACHE$SHARE:[000000]APACHE$HTTPD_SHR.EXE_ALPHA: > > Invalido) > > > installation %SYSTEM-F-ABORT, abortn > > >,G > > > I don't see the file they are looking for.  As a matter of fact Im don'ti > > see K > > > any files with a "_ALPHA" appended to the file extension.  Looking at  > thesF > > > procedure, this string is either _VAX or _ALPHA depending on the system > > > type.i > > >nF > > > I'm running on an Alphaserver 1000A w/ VMS 7.3-1 with the latest
 > patches. > > > E > > > It looks to me like the file names have changed with the latesti releasee > ofE > > > CSWS, but the configuration program was not updated to match...- Anyone > > else8 > > > having this problem or am I doing something wrong? > > >e! > > > Check for the missing file:> > > >c7 > > > SYSMGR1K>dir APACHE$SHARE:[000000]APACHE$HTTPD*.*k > > >i% > > > Directory APACHE$SHARE:[000000]t > > >p; > > > APACHE$HTTPD.EXE;1        23  10-OCT-2003 15:14:11.40  > > > APACHE$HTTPD_SHR.EXE;1; > > >                          842  10-OCT-2003 15:14:10.20 & > > > APACHE$HTTPD_SHR.EXE_ALPHA_OLD;1 > > >t > > > Regards,	 > > > Tom! > > >. > > >o > >r > >  >t >    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 00:23:01 -0800f. From: send_lotsa_spam_here@yahoo.com (Soterro) Subject: Re: QTD-30 SCSI cardy= Message-ID: <1a63f162.0401080023.73e94ff2@posting.google.com>y  j "Winfried Bergmann" <NosPAM@web.de> wrote in message news:<btgut7$6vile$2@ID-170759.news.uni-berlin.de>...= > AFAIK, the blocksize of the cdrom should be set to 512 byte   D Another machine (a small Alpha DEC 3000) is normally using the drive: and has no issues. It's just the VAX and its funny card...  
 Thank you, Sg   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 06:31:39 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)F Subject: Searchlist behaviour differences between DCL/RMS and CRTL/EXE0 Message-ID: <fP6Lb.9786$Tz1.3729@news.chello.at>  I Having a logicalnamesearchlist yields some advantages but I still have an!? disadvantage I'd like to get rid off. Do you have an idea how ?    $ show default   RZ:[EPLAN]( $ define x rz:[2004],rz:[2003],rz:[2002] $ zip x:login.zip login.com  $ dir x:login.ziph   Directory RZ:[2002]l   LOGIN.ZIP;1h   Total of 1 file.  M It seems, that the CRTL (or what else ?) which ZIP.EXE is using it perverting.J the search list and placing the output file _not_ in the first translationL directory (in this example in the last translation, but I've seen occurencesL of the second translation, too, with ORACLE) as it should (and in DCL does).  M I tried it on OpenVMS VAX V7.3, OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1/V7.3-2 and it's similar.a   Many TIA   -- e Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER(% Network and OpenVMS system specialisti E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 02:25:32 -0500l* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>J Subject: Re: Searchlist behaviour differences between DCL/RMS and CRTL/EXE) Message-ID: <3FFD05C6.6EB6A84C@istop.com>     Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: > $ show default >   RZ:[EPLAN]* > $ define x rz:[2004],rz:[2003],rz:[2002] > $ zip x:login.zip login.com. > $ dir x:login.zipk >  > Directory RZ:[2002]  > 
 > LOGIN.ZIP;1   N You forgot to SET DEF X: before invoking the ZIP command. As a matter of fact,G the zip file shoudl have been created in RZ:[EPLAN] since that was your L default directory at the time you invokes the zip command, and I suspect the3 zip file in [2002] may have been there well before.a   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 07:43:17 -0600D; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)!J Subject: Re: Searchlist behaviour differences between DCL/RMS and CRTL/EXE3 Message-ID: <d$z$giE7RlpC@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  i In article <fP6Lb.9786$Tz1.3729@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:bK > Having a logicalnamesearchlist yields some advantages but I still have aniA > disadvantage I'd like to get rid off. Do you have an idea how ?a >  > $ show default >   RZ:[EPLAN]* > $ define x rz:[2004],rz:[2003],rz:[2002] > $ zip x:login.zip login.comh > $ dir x:login.zipo >  > Directory RZ:[2002]d > 
 > LOGIN.ZIP;1t >  > Total of 1 file. > O > It seems, that the CRTL (or what else ?) which ZIP.EXE is using it perverting L > the search list and placing the output file _not_ in the first translationN > directory (in this example in the last translation, but I've seen occurencesN > of the second translation, too, with ORACLE) as it should (and in DCL does).  J    This is application specific.  Many utilities which ship with VMS will H    use the as-opened file name as the RMS related file name when openingF    output files.  Many other applications will use the self-parse the F    as-given file name, which results in the file going into the first D    translation.  Your copy of ZIP appears to be in the latter group.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 00:00:59 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)J Subject: Re: Searchlist behaviour differences between DCL/RMS and CRTL/EXE2 Message-ID: <%amLb.24954$Tz1.10336@news.chello.at>  V In article <3FFD05C6.6EB6A84C@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:! >Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:h >> $ show default- >>   RZ:[EPLAN]-+ >> $ define x rz:[2004],rz:[2003],rz:[2002]p >> $ zip x:login.zip login.com >> $ dir x:login.zip >> i >> Directory RZ:[2002] >> a >> LOGIN.ZIP;1 >f: >You forgot to SET DEF X: before invoking the ZIP command.  ? Nope. You seem to misunderstood. The LOGIN.COM is in RZ:[EPLAN]aN The ZIP file has nothing to do with my homedirectory. It is on the searchlist.  O >                                                          As a matter of fact,>H >the zip file shoudl have been created in RZ:[EPLAN] since that was yourM >default directory at the time you invokes the zip command, and I suspect thee4 >zip file in [2002] may have been there well before.  4 Nope. You seem to overlook the X: in the zipfilenameB and the zipfile is not an old one. Haven't you tried it yourself ?  J This is not my real problem (One problem I have is with an ORACLE script).K This is only a reproducer I found and I think using ZIP helps you reproduce-K it yourself and by looking at the freeware sourcecode to try some ideas youaL hopefully have (and I think the common between ZIP.EXE and SQL.EXE is CRTL).   -- g Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERO% Network and OpenVMS system specialistn E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 00:04:20 GMT.6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)J Subject: Re: Searchlist behaviour differences between DCL/RMS and CRTL/EXE2 Message-ID: <8emLb.24982$Tz1.16834@news.chello.at>  q In article <d$z$giE7RlpC@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:aj >In article <fP6Lb.9786$Tz1.3729@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:P >> It seems, that the CRTL (or what else ?) which ZIP.EXE is using it pervertingM >> the search list and placing the output file _not_ in the first translationO >> directory (in this example in the last translation, but I've seen occurences O >> of the second translation, too, with ORACLE) as it should (and in DCL does).- >-K >   This is application specific.  Many utilities which ship with VMS will nI >   use the as-opened file name as the RMS related file name when openingOG >   output files.  Many other applications will use the self-parse the  G >   as-given file name, which results in the file going into the first hE >   translation.  Your copy of ZIP appears to be in the latter group.e  J Which parsing does the program ? It is opening a file entered as parameterK and it is opening it in the wrong directory. How do I change ORACLE SQL.EXEWD to open its outputfile in the correct directory of the search list ?   -- 2 Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER4% Network and OpenVMS system specialistm E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:31:07 -0500r* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>A Subject: Re: Secure Web Server Version 2.0 available for download-) Message-ID: <3FFC88AA.EB99A342@istop.com>i  K > > > "The Secure Web Server Version 2.0 kit requires that all served filesD# > > > must be in Stream_LF format."c  N Is it possible that they require this in order to quickly calculate exact file@ size in order to be able to serve byte ranges more efficiently ?  H This is where RMS has a big drawback: obtaining file size in characters.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:46:16 GMTr) From: "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com>oA Subject: Re: Secure Web Server Version 2.0 available for downloadt3 Message-ID: <cXeLb.11855$%b3.4572@news.cpqcorp.net>,   Hi Mark,  L As a few posters already guessed, the stream-lf requirement for served filesK was to minimize the portability (and maintenance) effort and to address the3> problem of quickly determining the number of data bytes in theK Content-Length calculation (without having to read every byte in the file).-  J This requirement applies mainly to textual content, such as .HTML, .SHTML,K and .TXT files, that are typically represented on VMS using variable-lengthrG record format. Binary data files, such as executables, are not an issuem6 because fixed-length record format is also acceptable.  
 Rick Barry OpenVMS System Software Groups Hewlett-Packard Companyh
 Nashua, NH  = "Mark Berryman" <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> wrote in messaget! news:3ffaef56$1@cpns1.saic.com...s > Sue Skonetski wrote:A > > Announcing HP Secure Web Server Version 2.0 for OpenVMS AlphacA > > -------------------------------------------------------------  > >tI > > Hewlett-Packard is pleased to announce the availability of Secure WeboF > > Server (SWS)2.0. SWS 2.0 is based on Apache 2.0.47 from the ApacheG > > Software Foundation. This is the first version of Apache to supportC > > the IPv6 network protocol. > >s" > > Minimum software requirements: > >u, > >     OpenVMS 7.3-1 (with latest CRTL ECO)7 > >     ODS-5 for installation and document directoriest > >     TCP/IP 5.3 >l# > and this, from the release notes:a >,G > "The Secure Web Server Version 2.0 kit requires that all served files  > must be in Stream_LF format."y >k > WHY?!@ >cH > CSWS V1.3 happily served any format file.  The C RTL will happily readJ > any RMS format.  Why this restriction?  Please note that this means thatI > the V2.0 webserver is no longer able to serve the VMS documentation CDsa7 > since the HTML files are in "variable length" format.. > J > C'mon, folks.  Isn't this carrying Unix compatibility a wee bit too far? >n > Mark BerrymanM >h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 17:11:26 -0800(0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>A Subject: Re: Secure Web Server Version 2.0 available for download0' Message-ID: <3ffd8f3e$1@cpns1.saic.com>h  I Since V2.0 requires V7.3-1 of VMS or later one can use File Length hints      to get actual byte counts.   I Also, it is not text files that require the Content-Length header, it is o: binary files.  In those files, the calculation is just as D straightforward as it is for a stream-lf file.  Therefore, I see no ? reason to limit files with textual content to stream-lf format.h  F I have a lot of files on my web server that are generated by programs G not written in C.  They do not generate stream-lf files, they generate oE the VMS default of variable length records.  All of this worked fine cI with the V1.3 version of the server.  Are you telling me that, with this a@ latest "upgrade", I am no longer going to be able to use the HP ? supported web-server just so the port could be a little easier?   
 Mark Berrymanr  
 > Hi Mark, > N > As a few posters already guessed, the stream-lf requirement for served filesM > was to minimize the portability (and maintenance) effort and to address the @ > problem of quickly determining the number of data bytes in theM > Content-Length calculation (without having to read every byte in the file).e > L > This requirement applies mainly to textual content, such as .HTML, .SHTML,M > and .TXT files, that are typically represented on VMS using variable-length>I > record format. Binary data files, such as executables, are not an issuea8 > because fixed-length record format is also acceptable. >  > Rick Barry > OpenVMS System Software Group? > Hewlett-Packard Companys > Nashua, NH > ? > "Mark Berryman" <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> wrote in message-# > news:3ffaef56$1@cpns1.saic.com...  >  >>Sue Skonetski wrote: >>@ >>>Announcing HP Secure Web Server Version 2.0 for OpenVMS Alpha@ >>>------------------------------------------------------------- >>>SH >>>Hewlett-Packard is pleased to announce the availability of Secure WebE >>>Server (SWS)2.0. SWS 2.0 is based on Apache 2.0.47 from the Apache-F >>>Software Foundation. This is the first version of Apache to support >>>the IPv6 network protocol.s >>>o! >>>Minimum software requirements:i >>> + >>>    OpenVMS 7.3-1 (with latest CRTL ECO) 6 >>>    ODS-5 for installation and document directories >>>    TCP/IP 5.3i >># >>and this, from the release notes:- >>G >>"The Secure Web Server Version 2.0 kit requires that all served fileso >>must be in Stream_LF format."a >> >>WHY?!g >>H >>CSWS V1.3 happily served any format file.  The C RTL will happily readJ >>any RMS format.  Why this restriction?  Please note that this means thatI >>the V2.0 webserver is no longer able to serve the VMS documentation CDsh7 >>since the HTML files are in "variable length" format.o >>J >>C'mon, folks.  Isn't this carrying Unix compatibility a wee bit too far? >> >>Mark Berryman    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 21:40:14 -0500.* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>A Subject: Re: Secure Web Server Version 2.0 available for download|) Message-ID: <3FFE1476.59A9DA46@istop.com>d   Mark Berryman wrote:J > with the V1.3 version of the server.  Are you telling me that, with thisA > latest "upgrade", I am no longer going to be able to use the HP A > supported web-server just so the port could be a little easier?8  M You could use the WASD or OSU Web servers. The later was written specificallyr> for VMS. Or just stick to your old version of VMS0Apache untilJ Digital/Compaq"HP/whatever realise the mistake in dropping support for VMS
 native files.o   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:09:56 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)E Subject: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COMi$ Message-ID: <bti3k4$l05$1@online.de>  E Normally, I do a shutdown from the (serial, VT320 connected via MMJ) oI console.  Sometimes, it's nice to be able to do it remotely.  Logging in  I via LAT or TELNET from another node in the cluster then shutting it down eD (and asking for automatic reboot) seems to work, but is it actually F supported?  (I don't want to get used to it only to find that at some " point the functionality vanishes.)  @ Obviously, at some point during the shutdown, the LAT or TELNET H connection will be aborted, but the shutdown continues.  Thus, it seems F like a bad idea.  On the other hand, the same argument applies to the  interactive process on OPA0:.n  I Assuming OPA0: is the most desirable alternative, would LAT or TELNET be c better as second-best?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:41:45 -0600% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>.I Subject: Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COMm8 Message-ID: <J66Lb.27035$VV4.7284@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>  I While you can sometimes shutdown a server by a telnet session, I have had I instances where a person that is shutting down the system did not use theIK console for a scheduled re-boot.  They think that they had accomplished thebG shutdown because they where disconnected from the system like you would D expect.  Unfortunately, there process was terminated when they where< disconnected, and they did not actually shutdown the system.  I IF you are going to use a remote telnet session, always check your uptimetL (SHO SYS/NOPROC) after your "reboot" to verify if it really shutdown or not.  K If you can remote the console port by plugging the OPA0 into a Decserver700eG or similar device that is accessed by a console management program likegJ TDI's ConsoleWorks.  (There are others, that is what we use)  Then you canL remotely access/monitor your console ports on your systems,and the CLI portsE on your storage controllers (HSx's)  I monitor/access over 250 seriali) console ports (Alpha, IBM, HSG) this way.r    J Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de>/ wrote in message news:bti3k4$l05$1@online.de...nF > Normally, I do a shutdown from the (serial, VT320 connected via MMJ)J > console.  Sometimes, it's nice to be able to do it remotely.  Logging inJ > via LAT or TELNET from another node in the cluster then shutting it downE > (and asking for automatic reboot) seems to work, but is it actuallyAG > supported?  (I don't want to get used to it only to find that at somer$ > point the functionality vanishes.) > A > Obviously, at some point during the shutdown, the LAT or TELNETaI > connection will be aborted, but the shutdown continues.  Thus, it seems G > like a bad idea.  On the other hand, the same argument applies to thea > interactive process on OPA0:.e  J ???  I do not agree.  The console port is not handled in the same way as a remote telnet session.  J > Assuming OPA0: is the most desirable alternative, would LAT or TELNET be > better as second-best?  K That about sums it up.  Use OPA0 if at all possible.  If not use the remote!! method and verify that it worked.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 06:05:13 GMTe6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)I Subject: Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM 0 Message-ID: <tq6Lb.9585$Tz1.7322@news.chello.at>  w In article <bti3k4$l05$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:VF >Normally, I do a shutdown from the (serial, VT320 connected via MMJ) J >console.  Sometimes, it's nice to be able to do it remotely.  Logging in J >via LAT or TELNET from another node in the cluster then shutting it down E >(and asking for automatic reboot) seems to work, but is it actually cG >supported?  (I don't want to get used to it only to find that at some  # >point the functionality vanishes.)    Can't answer that currently.  A >Obviously, at some point during the shutdown, the LAT or TELNET 18 >connection will be aborted, but the shutdown continues.  2 LAT will not we aborted and the shutdown finishes.+ IP will be aborted and the shutdown aborts.m  H >                                                        Thus, it seems G >like a bad idea.  On the other hand, the same argument applies to the c >interactive process on OPA0:.  H No. SHUTDOWN.COM tries something to _not_ terminate the process which isK running the shutdown (and not its parent process) to complete the shutdown.   J >Assuming OPA0: is the most desirable alternative, would LAT or TELNET be  >better as second-best?t  = Remote SYSMAN> SHUTDOWN NODE (with a SET ENVI/NODE=xx before)lB (because it is supported in WAN) and then LAT (which is LAN only).B But to access a remote standalone system per SYSMAN, one has to do2 start the SMISERVER process in startup on his own.  I Local SYSMAN> SHUTDOWN (after logging in via TELNET or RTERM) once wasn't H able to shutdown the node without being aborted by the network shutdown.G I don't know if this is fixed already (the problem was that the runningFL process was a subprocess of the interactive process and not of the SMISERVERH process on the local node - which gave other interesting behaviour, too) so better try this yourself...   -- e Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 01:55:40 -0500-* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>I Subject: Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COMa) Message-ID: <3FFCFEC8.A2D1D444@istop.com>n  L What you could do (haven't tried it though) is to crteate a detached processH that executes a procedure which call the shutdown.com with all the right# parameters to skip all the prompts.   L This way, if your terminal process is killed, the detached process continuesH to operate. And its outpout can be directed to a file which you can then  consult when the system reboots.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 01:30:20 -0800r From: mb301@hotmail.com (MB)I Subject: Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM < Message-ID: <1d08b916.0401080130.e206c93@posting.google.com>  | helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote in message news:<bti3k4$l05$1@online.de>...G > Normally, I do a shutdown from the (serial, VT320 connected via MMJ) oK > console.  Sometimes, it's nice to be able to do it remotely.  Logging in oK > via LAT or TELNET from another node in the cluster then shutting it down rF > (and asking for automatic reboot) seems to work, but is it actually H > supported?  (I don't want to get used to it only to find that at some $ > point the functionality vanishes.) > B > Obviously, at some point during the shutdown, the LAT or TELNET J > connection will be aborted, but the shutdown continues.  Thus, it seems H > like a bad idea.  On the other hand, the same argument applies to the  > interactive process on OPA0:.P > K > Assuming OPA0: is the most desirable alternative, would LAT or TELNET be $ > better as second-best?    D It is possible to shutdown/reboot in a command procedure like this:-  % $ !SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]NODE_REBOOT.COM + $ IF F$MODE() .EQS. "INTERACTIVE" THEN EXIT 
 $ SET NOON $ SET NOVERIFYC $ REBOOT == "@SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN 1 SHUTDOWN YES NO LATER YES NONE"c $ REBOOT $ EXIT  ) from the DCL line type in the following:-   1 $ Run /detach /uic=[1,4] /process_name="REBOOT" -a*       /input=sys$manager:node_reboot.com -<       /output=sys$manager:reboot.log sys$system:loginout.exe  	 Have fun.    Regardsm Mark   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 13:47:57 GMT 1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones).I Subject: Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COMs: Message-ID: <btjn2d$jj7$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  J To reboot the system, I use "$ mcr sysman shutdown node/automatic_reboot".L It creates a detached process to run the shutdown so you don't have to worryC about your session being disconnected and aborting by the shutdown.t  H See sysman's help on shutdown for the other qualifiers you can use (e.g.
 /cluster).    < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet:aL 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.e   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 07:34:07 -0600t; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)eI Subject: Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COMf3 Message-ID: <Jls8aOKccVQO@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  w In article <bti3k4$l05$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:  > K > Assuming OPA0: is the most desirable alternative, would LAT or TELNET be - > better as second-best?  I    Current versions of DECwindows, DECnet, LAT, and TELNET software will  K    all stick around until the shutdown is done.  Current version of the     A    queue manager will not, which kills batch jobs when it goes.  1  I    Older versions of DECwindows, DECnet (very old), LAT, and TELNET will  H    not stick around.  Older versions of the batch queue system let batch    jobs stick around.g  I    I used to submit batch jobs to shutdown, reboot, or autogen and rebootfJ    the system overnight until that broke.  Now I have a script which will C    launch a detached process with a /delay qualifier to autogen andkD    reboot overnight.  I can also submit that script to batch with anJ    /after qualifier if I want to, because the /delay calculation I've got 9    setup in the script happens to be limited to 24 hours.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 13:24:50 -0500< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>I Subject: Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM>9 Message-ID: <btk79k$84e1d$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>7   Bob Koehler wrote:& > In article <bti3k4$l05$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.dec4 > (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: >>> >> Assuming OPA0: is the most desirable alternative, would LAT or# >> TELNET be better as second-best?  > < >    Current versions of DECwindows, DECnet, LAT, and TELNET software6 >    will all stick around until the shutdown is done. Current versionr: >    of the queue manager will not, which kills batch jobs
 when it goes.  > > >    Older versions of DECwindows, DECnet (very old), LAT, and TELNET> >    will not stick around.  Older versions of the batch queue system! >    let batch jobs stick around.    >...  : The current version of TELNET will stick around if you are= running the latest version of HP's TCP package, I do not knowt< about previous versions. The second most recent version (and; older) of TCPWare will not stick around, we have not testedw: the most recent version of TCPWare to see what it will do.  8 You are right about the "Very old" versions of DECnet, I8 recall being able to use LAT to connect to one node in a: cluster in V5.x days and then using SET HOST to connect to another node to reboot it.   -- N Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXe www.weaverconsulting.caP   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 13:58:35 -0500e& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>I Subject: Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COMw8 Message-ID: <mv9rvvcbgj7jfu5mbqmoujp37at6p9jm8p@4ax.com>  H On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:09:56 +0000 (UTC), helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de1 (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:e  F >Normally, I do a shutdown from the (serial, VT320 connected via MMJ) J >console.  Sometimes, it's nice to be able to do it remotely.  Logging in J >via LAT or TELNET from another node in the cluster then shutting it down E >(and asking for automatic reboot) seems to work, but is it actually IG >supported?  (I don't want to get used to it only to find that at some  # >point the functionality vanishes.)t  O Here's a procedure I wrote awhile ago (and tested but have not used since then) O to do a shutdown from batch. If you decide to use this, make sure the parameter. sequence still is correct.  = $! BATCH_SHUTDOWN.COM -- Sample Batch-mode Shutdown ProceduretE $   if (f$mode () .eqs. "BATCH") .or. (f$mode () .eqs. "INTERACTIVE")  $   then/ $       procedure = f$environment ("procedure")7< $       dirname = f$parse (procedure,,,"device") + f$parse -%             (procedure,,,"directory")r/ $       procname = f$parse (procedure,,,"name")y( $       run/detach sys$system:loginout -              /input='procedure' -'             /output='dirname''procname'  $   else $       @sys$system:shutdown -@         5 -                             ! minutes until shutdown=         "Test BATCH-mode shutdown" -    ! reason for shutdown5C         n -                             ! spin down the disks (Y/N)rJ         y -                             ! run site-specific shutdown (Y/N)6         "in a few minutes" -            ! restart time;         y -                             ! auto-reboot (Y/N)t:         save_feedback                   ! shutdown options	 $   endifs
 $   exit 1 $!++= $! BATCH_SHUTDOWN.COM -- Sample Batch-mode Shutdown Procedureo $!I $!      This procedure, when run in BATCH or INTERACTIVE mode, creates a tI $!      detached process to run a copy of itself.  This is to avoid beingfG $!      "killed" when the batch/print queue manager gets stopped at T-2i $!      minutes. $!0 $!      Edit the SHUTDOWN parameters as desired. $!-- $! Revision history:A $!  9-May-1991  Dave Smith - initial version, tested for xxx xxx.e  I -------------------------------------------------------------------------rI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comzI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)sI -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 16:09:13 -0600c; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)sI Subject: Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM-3 Message-ID: <QQ6K+4r4AeQO@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  x In article <btk79k$84e1d$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> writes:  < > The current version of TELNET will stick around if you are? > running the latest version of HP's TCP package, I do not knowi> > about previous versions. The second most recent version (and= > older) of TCPWare will not stick around, we have not testedn< > the most recent version of TCPWare to see what it will do.  @    I'm using Multinet.  I'm really suprized TCPWare won't do it./    Nothing suprizes me about what UCX won't do.o  : > You are right about the "Very old" versions of DECnet, I: > recall being able to use LAT to connect to one node in a< > cluster in V5.x days and then using SET HOST to connect to > another node to reboot it.  C    IIRC fixed ca. VMS 3.0 or so.  I used DECnet under VMS 2.5 for a-	    while.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:11:45 -0500d* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>I Subject: Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM2) Message-ID: <3FFDE3A7.2457C85A@istop.com>    David M Smith wrote:G > >Normally, I do a shutdown from the (serial, VT320 connected via MMJ)n? > >console.  Sometimes, it's nice to be able to do it remotely.y  J Rebooted my all mighty Microvax II in Montreal Canada from a payphone on aM street in Townsville Australia by using my old PSION PDA, acoustic coupler to ! dial long distance to my machine.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 00:49:02 GMTg6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)I Subject: Re: supported connection methods for $ @ SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM<2 Message-ID: <2UmLb.25342$Tz1.13214@news.chello.at>  x In article <btk79k$84e1d$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> writes: >Bob Koehler wrote: G >> In article <bti3k4$l05$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.der5 >> (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:1 >>>aB >>> Assuming OPA0: is the most desirable alternative, would LAT or$ >>> TELNET be better as second-best? >>F >>    Current versions of DECwindows, DECnet, LAT, and TELNET softwareG >>    will all stick around until the shutdown is done. Current versiontI >>    of the queue manager will not, which kills batch jobs when it goes.  >>F >>    Older versions of DECwindows, DECnet (very old), LAT, and TELNETF >>    will not stick around.  Older versions of the batch queue system" >>    let batch jobs stick around. >>...o >s; >The current version of TELNET will stick around if you aret0 >running the latest version of HP's TCP package.  H Yup, you are correct. I have to a amend my statement in my last posting.@ TCPIP (and LAT) keeps long enough alive to complete the shutdown  ? >                                                 I do not knowe= >about previous versions. The second most recent version (anda< >older) of TCPWare will not stick around, we have not tested; >the most recent version of TCPWare to see what it will do.l  # TCPware V5.6-2 aborts the shutdown.   9 >You are right about the "Very old" versions of DECnet, I 9 >recall being able to use LAT to connect to one node in aH; >cluster in V5.x days and then using SET HOST to connect toT >another node to reboot it.    I still prefer SYSMAN...   -- o Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERf% Network and OpenVMS system specialiste E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:15:44 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>tB Subject: Re: Sybase supports Apple OS X - VMS still dead at Sybase0 Message-ID: <caOdnXifFLbPIGGiRVn-tw@comcast.com>  D Actually, the company I work for is moving some the Sybase stuff to B Oracle, just not on a VMS platform.  They also run Sybase on Unix.   John Smith wrote:   M >http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1738&ncid=1208&e=6&u=/zd/200] >40106/tc_zd/115729  > G >Encouraged by Apple Computer Inc.'s introduction of a PowerPC G5-based M >server, Sybase Inc. on Tuesday announced here the availability of its Sybase H >Adaptive Server Enterprise 12.5.1 relational database for Mac OS X 10.3 >"Panther" Server. >  > K >Sybase clearly supports 'niche' platforms (after all...just how many OS  X-J >servers are really going to be sold??) as long as the company behind them! >has a commitment to the platformQ >3 >C >For contrast, >D& >http://www.sybase.com/detail?id=20515 >g >June 28, 1999 >e( >Dear Valued Compaq and Sybase Customer, >n >:F >Recently you received a letter from Sybase informing you of importantM >product support changes for OpenVMS. Both Sybase and Compaq are committed to3K >ensuring that these changes cause as little disruption to your business assL >possible. As a follow-up, this letter contains information about timing andM >possible options to help manage your migration in a process that is safe andE >easy. >c >SM >Sybase has provided OpenVMS solutions for both VAX and Alpha since the earlybL >1990s; during that time there has been an increased market interest in UNIXM >and Windows NT. While Sybase values its installed base of OpenVMS customers,vI >its future engineering investments for Compaq platforms will be on Tru642 >UNIX and Windows NT.: >i >iM >To ensure that customers have the maximum time and flexibility in making theaD >right decision for their business, Sybase is continuing support forI >OpenVMS/Alpha as outlined in the initial notification letter. The letter H >stated that SQL Server 11.0.3.3 and OpenClient/OpenServer 10.0.4 on theM >OpenVMS/Alpha platform will continue to be supported until 31 December 2003.tK >Therefore, OpenVMS/Alpha and Sybase customers satisfied with their current7F >operation can continue for nearly five additional years, and have theH >ability to develop and implement a migration strategy as business needs	 >dictate.V >NJ >Now that Dec. 31/2003 has come and gone and Sybase support has officiallyK >evaporated for any VMS platform, expect that those remaining customers whofI >were using Sybase on VMS to most likely kick VMS out. My bet is that's awH >more probable course of events than migrating to Oracle on VMS by these >customers.A >T >E >r >: >  >h >  f >t   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jan 2004 21:35:26 -0800 . From: mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon)B Subject: Re: Sybase supports Apple OS X - VMS still dead at Sybase= Message-ID: <7500353b.0401072135.1fe3e74e@posting.google.com>   v "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<k0XKb.32341$1g41.8589@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...N > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1738&ncid=1208&e=6&u=/zd/200 > 40106/tc_zd/115729 > H > Encouraged by Apple Computer Inc.'s introduction of a PowerPC G5-basedN > server, Sybase Inc. on Tuesday announced here the availability of its SybaseI > Adaptive Server Enterprise 12.5.1 relational database for Mac OS X 10.3o > "Panther" Server.P >  > L > Sybase clearly supports 'niche' platforms (after all...just how many OS  XK > servers are really going to be sold??) as long as the company behind thema" > has a commitment to the platform  D Sybase's (Oracle's and many others) development platform is Unix, soD supporting just one more unix (OS X is Mach-kernel based Unix) is no	 big deal.   < Supporting VMS (or MPE) however, requires totally new port.   E Btw, does anyone know whether VMS have Posix extensions ? These would  help on porting.   Mn   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 07:38:44 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) B Subject: Re: Sybase supports Apple OS X - VMS still dead at Sybase3 Message-ID: <aahPgnWtUz2k@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  n In article <7500353b.0401072135.1fe3e74e@posting.google.com>, mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon) writes: > G > Btw, does anyone know whether VMS have Posix extensions ? These wouldi > help on porting.  D    Did have, but was retired.  DII COE is coming to VMS which is the"    latest one-API-fits-all scheme.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 10:50:54 -0800-7 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) B Subject: Re: Sybase supports Apple OS X - VMS still dead at Sybase= Message-ID: <8a646952.0401081050.3f4e098b@posting.google.com>g   Dear John Smith:  C Sybase had at one time supported 18 Operating systems. VMS has beenFF dead in Sybase since 1997 when Sybase had made the decision to provide> long term support to only those OS that would give them growthB potenial since they were in dire financial position. Those core OSF Platforms were Unix(AIX, Sun, Tru64, HPUX) and NT. I am not suprise byF Sybase decision with Apple's server, again it has growth potential and& if it fits into the core OS platforms.  E Then and now: VMS is a cash cow and has little growth. Maybe with the F intel chip we might see some growth in VMS. VMS is a posix standard OS= for some time. It was a requirement to compete in the US Gov.cA contracts. Someone at one time called VMS a UNIX OS becuase of it  being a posix standard OS.   Regards,
 Daryl Jones  z      v "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<k0XKb.32341$1g41.8589@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...N > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1738&ncid=1208&e=6&u=/zd/200 > 40106/tc_zd/115729 > H > Encouraged by Apple Computer Inc.'s introduction of a PowerPC G5-basedN > server, Sybase Inc. on Tuesday announced here the availability of its SybaseI > Adaptive Server Enterprise 12.5.1 relational database for Mac OS X 10.3E > "Panther" Server.L >  > L > Sybase clearly supports 'niche' platforms (after all...just how many OS  XK > servers are really going to be sold??) as long as the company behind thems" > has a commitment to the platform >  >  > For contrast,r > ' > http://www.sybase.com/detail?id=20515g >  > June 28, 1999L > ) > Dear Valued Compaq and Sybase Customer,i >  > G > Recently you received a letter from Sybase informing you of importantnN > product support changes for OpenVMS. Both Sybase and Compaq are committed toL > ensuring that these changes cause as little disruption to your business asM > possible. As a follow-up, this letter contains information about timing andeN > possible options to help manage your migration in a process that is safe and > easy.t >  > N > Sybase has provided OpenVMS solutions for both VAX and Alpha since the earlyM > 1990s; during that time there has been an increased market interest in UNIX N > and Windows NT. While Sybase values its installed base of OpenVMS customers,J > its future engineering investments for Compaq platforms will be on Tru64 > UNIX and Windows NT. >  > N > To ensure that customers have the maximum time and flexibility in making theE > right decision for their business, Sybase is continuing support fortJ > OpenVMS/Alpha as outlined in the initial notification letter. The letterI > stated that SQL Server 11.0.3.3 and OpenClient/OpenServer 10.0.4 on theoN > OpenVMS/Alpha platform will continue to be supported until 31 December 2003.L > Therefore, OpenVMS/Alpha and Sybase customers satisfied with their currentG > operation can continue for nearly five additional years, and have the I > ability to develop and implement a migration strategy as business needsS
 > dictate. > K > Now that Dec. 31/2003 has come and gone and Sybase support has officiallyeL > evaporated for any VMS platform, expect that those remaining customers whoJ > were using Sybase on VMS to most likely kick VMS out. My bet is that's aI > more probable course of events than migrating to Oracle on VMS by thesen > customers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 19:54:26 -0600o@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: SYS$OUTPUT ?b6 Message-ID: <3FFCB852.2F000B5F@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > { > In article <3FFB83D7.B7BBF3AF@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:" > > Tom Linden wrote:o > A > >>  00020001 00023148 434E4542 204E5552 RUN BENCH1...... 0000B0e > >>P > >> Notepad reads the file without problem.  Anybody know what's going on here? > >e$ > > Say, "null-terminated string"... > # > From PL/I ?     Sounds unnatural.t  E Not really. What was written is meaningless compared to the way it isi being interpreted.   -- e David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems( http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 19:56:34 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: SYS$OUTPUT ? 6 Message-ID: <3FFCB8D2.2C8FF6B6@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   "Keith A. Lewis" wrote:M >  > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes in article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIMENECJAA.tom@kednos.com> dated Wed, 7 Jan 2004 06:35:36 -0800:eI > >No, the first executable statement is a PUT SKIP;  I am using a ratherWO > >old version of emacs, 19.22, not that it should matter, but my guess is that-I > >emacs is interpreting the null byte as end of file.  I tried this on ae4 > >current version of emacs on Linux and no problem. > G > I reproduced your results exactly using a pre-Kednos version of PL/I.T > M > It appears both DCL and PL/I add 2 bytes to the beginning of each record assN > part of the VFC format, but DCL uses 01 8D while PL/I uses 01 00.  DCL-based3 > tools such as EVE and APPEND seem to ignore them.  > < > MOST has the same problem as emacs with the NULL.LOG file.    Hhmmm... Can you say, "CONVERT"?   -- i David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 12:50:54 -0500a& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> Subject: Re: SYS$OUTPUT ?e8 Message-ID: <j16rvv02b7iqapudo2qrn5r4sdme5gourn@4ax.com>  = On 7 Jan 2004 09:45:02 -0600, briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:t   >Nope.  Not DCL.  RMS. >tB >When you OPEN a new file in DCL or when you do so implicitly with@ >$ DEFINE SYS$OUTPUT or DEFINE SYS$ERROR, the resulting file has? >print file carriage control.  The data records are VFC and theeE >first two bytes in each record contain carriage control information..  P I have had a variety of "funny" things happen due to the "odd" file type created5 by OPEN commands, so my normal practice now is to use    $ CREATE file.type $ OPEN/APPEND out file.typei  I The CREATE command creates a file with "more normal" VMS file attributes.oI ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comnI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)nI -------------------------------------------------------------------------e   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 12:22:47 -0600e From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: SYS$OUTPUT ?r3 Message-ID: <UkbN2OUBJd1h@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <j16rvv02b7iqapudo2qrn5r4sdme5gourn@4ax.com>, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> writes: ? > On 7 Jan 2004 09:45:02 -0600, briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  >  >>Nope.  Not DCL.  RMS.z >>C >>When you OPEN a new file in DCL or when you do so implicitly with A >>$ DEFINE SYS$OUTPUT or DEFINE SYS$ERROR, the resulting file hase@ >>print file carriage control.  The data records are VFC and theF >>first two bytes in each record contain carriage control information. > R > I have had a variety of "funny" things happen due to the "odd" file type created7 > by OPEN commands, so my normal practice now is to usee >  > $ CREATE file.type > $ OPEN/APPEND out file.typet  G Indeed so.  This particular approach won't help the poster in this case B however.  He's using SYS$OUTPUT.  And you can only open SYS$OUTPUT with "funny" carriage control.   $ create file.type $ define sys$Output file.type;1uD %DCL-E-OPENOUT, error opening DISK1420:[VAXS09]FILE.TYPE;1 as output/ -RMS-E-FEX, file already exists, not superseded-  B So you can't open an existing file that way.  And if you leave out? the version number you'll get a new version with funny carriage  control.  # $ open sys$output file.type /append- $ show log sys$Outputn7    "SYS$OUTPUT" = "_ALPHA$VTA9272:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)I  D So DCL is shy about letting you explicitly open SYS$OUTPUT as a PPF.   $ create file.type $ open q file.type /append $ define sys$Output qo, %DCL-E-OPENOUT, error opening Q:.; as output% -RMS-F-RAT, invalid record attributess  E And there's the smoking gun.  No funny carriage control, no DCL open.      One thing that can work:  # $ DEFINE /USER SYS$OUTPUT file.type. $ RUN your-program  @ DCL does not attempt to pre-open user mode equivalence names forD SYS$OUTPUT.  So your program will (typically) do the open and createC a new version of file.type with language-default record attributes.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 07:52:51 -0600gB From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)7 Subject: Technical reasons against porting VMS to IA-3203 Message-ID: <5kAOIILxacgj@eisner.encompasserve.org>>  H I see that the discussion around porting VMS to IA-32 is alive and well.  M However, the following documentation (taken from the IA-32 Intel ArchitecturesF Software Developer's Manual, Volume 3 [PDF version, cut and pasted andL reformatted]) clearly shows that although IA-32 has 4 protection rings, it's) page protection model is a 2 level model:    		---------------------------  4.11.1. Page-Protection Flagss  ? Protection information for pages is contained in two flags in acD page-directory or page-table entry (see Figure 3-14): the read/writeA flag (bit 1) and the user/supervisor flag (bit 2). The protection D checks are applied to both first- and second-level page tables (that& is, page directories and page tables).  & 4.11.2. Restricting Addressable Domain  F The page-level protection mechanism allows restricting access to pages based on two privilege levels:  F o  Supervisor mode (U/S flag is 0) (Most privileged) For the operatingD system or executive, other system software (such as device drivers),0 and protected system data (such as page tables).  D o  User mode (U/S flag is 1) (Least privileged) For application code	 and data.p  @ The segment privilege levels map to the page privilege levels asE follows. If the processor is currently operating at a CPL of 0, 1, orhD 2, it is in supervisor mode; if it is operating at a CPL of 3, it isE in user mode. When the processor is in supervisor mode, it can access,B all pages; when in user mode, it can access only user-level pages.F (Note that the WP flag in control register CR0 modifies the supervisor< permissions, as described in Section 4.11.3., "Page Type" .)  C Note that to use the page-level protection mechanism, code and data.@ segments must be set up for at least two segment-based privilegeE levels: level 0 for supervisor code and data segments and level 3 for.E user code and data segments. (In this model, the stacks are placed inIB the data segments.) To minimize the use of segments, a flat memory; model can be used (see Section 3.2.1., "Basic Flat Model ).i 		---------------------------h  J It's certainly possible to create something from scratch that looks mostlyJ like VMS (at least to user mode code) that runs on IA-32, but I think thatM the above would make the porting of the current VMS codebase a major exercises (and probably impossible...)   Simon.  H PS: BTW, What page protection model does AMD's 64 bit architecture use ?F Is it the same as IA-32 or has it been enhanced ? (I haven't looked at! AMD's 64 bit architecture yet...)d   -- hB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 12:11:36 -0600r; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o; Subject: Re: Technical reasons against porting VMS to IA-32-3 Message-ID: <ZNZIWdHbdN2q@eisner.encompasserve.org>x  x In article <5kAOIILxacgj@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:J > I see that the discussion around porting VMS to IA-32 is alive and well. > &    The port to IA64 is up and running. > L > It's certainly possible to create something from scratch that looks mostlyL > like VMS (at least to user mode code) that runs on IA-32, but I think thatO > the above would make the porting of the current VMS codebase a major exerciseo > (and probably impossible...)  0    IA64 has the same issue and has addressed it.  D    IIRC (I don't have an VMS/I64 internals manual) for compatabilityD    the access violation for a user mode read to what was a KWUR pageB    on VAX and Alpha will be trapped and fixed up.  For speed thereJ    are alternate global symbols which map to a virtual page with different=    protection, but which then maps to the same physical page.b   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 14:01:24 -0600uB From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley); Subject: Re: Technical reasons against porting VMS to IA-32m3 Message-ID: <38rYnjb8+26Z@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  q In article <ZNZIWdHbdN2q@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:oz > In article <5kAOIILxacgj@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:K >> I see that the discussion around porting VMS to IA-32 is alive and well.  >> o( >    The port to IA64 is up and running.  L I know. I was refering to the earlier discussions about porting to elsewhere other than IA-64.w   >> nM >> It's certainly possible to create something from scratch that looks mostly M >> like VMS (at least to user mode code) that runs on IA-32, but I think thatoP >> the above would make the porting of the current VMS codebase a major exercise >> (and probably impossible...)N > 2 >    IA64 has the same issue and has addressed it. >   J Because of the single bit user/supervisor flag in the page tables, a majorL difference between IA-32 and IA-64 is that in IA-32, all inner modes see theK memory protection in the same way, so that if a page is writable at ring 0,nD and ring 1/2 needs read access, then it's also writable at ring 1/2.  H (Ring 0 could protect it's data structure by having a segment descriptorF that gave ring 0 access only, but if ring 1/2 needs access to the dataG structure, then the segment descriptor needs to allow ring 1/2 access.)   K With IA-64, there is a finer grained control that allows memory that is R/WeH at one level to be R/O at the immediately less privileged level. You are< correct about that leaving the (resolved) URKW issue though.   Simon.   -- SB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 20:32:00 GMTe& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>; Subject: Re: Technical reasons against porting VMS to IA-32f3 Message-ID: <47jLb.11908$Pz3.2868@news.cpqcorp.net>e   Simon Clubley wrote:J > I see that the discussion around porting VMS to IA-32 is alive and well. > O > However, the following documentation (taken from the IA-32 Intel ArchitectureNH > Software Developer's Manual, Volume 3 [PDF version, cut and pasted andN > reformatted]) clearly shows that although IA-32 has 4 protection rings, it's+ > page protection model is a 2 level model:t >   D The whole '2-mode' versus '4-mode' argument is a red herring.  That F isn't an issue anymore.  However, there are many other issues such as B the limited number of registers available and the large amount of 4 Macro32 code in the code base that would notice. :-(   -- t John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leaderi Hewlett-Packard Companys   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 08:10:13 -0800c1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) E Subject: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemsm= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0401080810.3eb1e0c1@posting.google.com>h  5 Software vulnerabilities still dog operating systems 1) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=13420   . "Proprietary systems are the least vulnerable   B The operating systems with fewest vulnerabilities in 2003 are HP's$ OpenVMS, IBM's OS/400 and IBM's zOS.  B These three are all proprietary and they all have security that isF fully integrated, not applied as some kind of after-thought. CertainlyF they come with a decent price-tag but they can be well worth the moneyE when the result is fewer security problems, less unscheduled downtimeI  and less downtime for patching." ...iE "the most secure operating systems continue to be certain proprietary,D systems from HP and IBM. Some may refer to these more secure systemsB as legacy systems but if legacy means secure and reliable it seems, that legacy should be the preferred option."   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 17:00:42 +0000:O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>bI Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemss0 Message-ID: <btk2br$a43$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Keith Parris wrote:C7 > Software vulnerabilities still dog operating systems  + > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=13420  > 0 > "Proprietary systems are the least vulnerable  > D > The operating systems with fewest vulnerabilities in 2003 are HP's& > OpenVMS, IBM's OS/400 and IBM's zOS. > D > These three are all proprietary and they all have security that isH > fully integrated, not applied as some kind of after-thought. CertainlyH > they come with a decent price-tag but they can be well worth the moneyG > when the result is fewer security problems, less unscheduled downtime " > and less downtime for patching." > ...oG > "the most secure operating systems continue to be certain proprietary/F > systems from HP and IBM. Some may refer to these more secure systemsD > as legacy systems but if legacy means secure and reliable it seems. > that legacy should be the preferred option."  ? Unfortunately its a pointless piece of research because OpenVMS A security advisories do not get reliably reported to CERT, Bugtraqo? etc so counting the ones that do only catches the excpetions to3	 the rule.   > You know this, I know this, its well documented so why did you; bother posting a reference to the The Registers article itsn2 not very responsible behaviour on your part is it.   Regards  Andrew Harrison4   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 00:35:11 -00004 From: "Chris Casey" <chris.caseyNOSPAM@ntlworld.com>I Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemso> Message-ID: <6HmLb.619$dr5.5365@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>gH wrote in message news:btk2br$a43> Unfortunately its a pointless piece of research because OpenVMSC > security advisories do not get reliably reported to CERT, Bugtraq A > etc so counting the ones that do only catches the excpetions too > the rule.  >e@ > You know this, I know this, its well documented so why did you= > bother posting a reference to the The Registers article itsE4 > not very responsible behaviour on your part is it. >c	 > Regardst > Andrew Harrisonb >t  D Aw Andrew, change your tune won't you. You trot out the same line toL everything. I personally don't care anymore whether your position on CERT isI true or not because you have belaboured it so much as to make it useless.u  K Unless you have some evidence that says that other operating systems are asnF secure as VMS then stop attacking anyone who says that VMS is the most secure system.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 17:21:51 -0800-1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)0I Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems:= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0401081721.3e9462d2@posting.google.com>    Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<btk2br$a43$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...iA > Unfortunately its a pointless piece of research because OpenVMS:C > security advisories do not get reliably reported to CERT, Bugtraq A > etc so counting the ones that do only catches the excpetions to  > the rule.,  E You're trying to convince us that because you claim CERT, etc. reportsE counts are not accurate, therefore the actual (unknown to you) number ? of VMS security problems discovered must be large (or, for yourf@ purposes, at least larger than the reported number for Solaris).  E In the general computing world, there are some basic assumptions thatb0 just don't apply to VMS (and I'll show you why):C 1) A security bug won't be fixed (or at least not fixed in a timelyP@ fashion) unless the vendor is publicly shamed or threatened by a= public report. Vendors can't be trusted to act in users' besto" interests with regard to security.3 2) Most security bugs are found by users or hackersoD 3) Operating systems are inherently insecure; the only way to secure. them is to apply patches as problems are found* 4) Security through obscurity is worthless   I'll address each of these:oC 1) OpenVMS Engineering has been very quick and spared no expense toiF develop and distribute security patches quickly whenever security bugs< have been found.  Although it didn't happen very often, I'veE experienced receiving a shipment unbidden with a security update thatdF I was advised to install immediately.  I can't recall anyone reportingB a case where a security bug was reported and the vendor of VMS wasF unresponsive or even slow in responding.  It's always been apparent to< customers that with VMS, the vendor always acted quickly and8 responsibly with respect to any and all security issues.F 2) Although some VMS security vulnerabilities have been discovered andD reported by users, most are discovered by internal testing, internalF code reviews, access to VMS source listings by white-hat experts, etc.C  Even Kevin Mitnick publicly admitted the only way he got access toi? VMS systems was by getting a password using social engineering.eD 3) It is impossible to patch security into an operating system -- itB must be designed to be secure from the start, and no feature whichA introduces a vulnerability can be added.  This is the way VMS wasrF designed from the beginning, and the way it was continued.  I rememberB when it was realized that although DEC's own terminals didn't haveF this feature, hackers could use the feature of an answerback string onD a 3rd-party terminal to submit a harmful DCL command to VMS, and DECD immediately modified all utilities in VMS so they could not generateF the requisite escape sequence. By making it impossible to do somethingC harmful, hackers are stymied. And by putting architectural defensesuD into place, mistakes tend to get caught. For example, having 4 ringsD of protection instead of just 2 allows VMS to catch some errors that< can slip through with only Kernel and User protection modes.F 4) There are significant real-world practical advantages to not havingD details of all security vulnerabilities published, and in not havingF source-code freely available. Without the need to goad the vendor intoB taking action, there is little benefit for publishing details of a= vulnerability.  Publishing details of a vulnerability that is A discovered internally or by white-hat experts and thus unknown to @ hackers would be foolish, and would put customers at significantB additional risk.  And when source code is not readily available toF everyone, black hats find it much more difficult and time-consuming toF determine how a system works internally and the best avenues to attack> a system.  With so much information available and with so manyD vulnerabilities in Windows and Linux and UNIX systems, where are theC hackers going to spend their time?  Not on VMS.  If you look on the B Web for information on how to hack VMS, you'll come up very short.  F I know of OpenVMS systems set up out-of-the-box and connected directlyD to the Internet without a firewall, and yet remain unhacked.  Why is that, one might ask?  ? Real-world experience and practice don't bear out your claim ofS$ numerous vulnerabilities in OpenVMS.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jan 2004 14:21:17 -0800n  From: bd@admins.com (Bill Davis)0 Subject: Using DCL for cgi-bin with SWS (Apache)= Message-ID: <b2b77655.0401071421.5feb649a@posting.google.com>   5 Lets say a web form will have a text area input that tB could transmit a large amount of text (more than 2000 bytes say). = I want to write the action for this form (using POST method) e8 as a DCL script but when I try to DCL READ APACHE$INPUT 6 I exceed the capacity of a DCL symbol (apparently).   : The READ works fine when data from form (in APACHE$INPUT) 
 is not large.o  * If you have already dealt with this issue , or if you have any suggestions please reply.   Thanks   -bd    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 00:26:52 GMTtL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")4 Subject: Re: Using DCL for cgi-bin with SWS (Apache)6 Message-ID: <00A2B8C3.85C5B490@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  ` In article <b2b77655.0401071421.5feb649a@posting.google.com>, bd@admins.com (Bill Davis) writes:6 >Lets say a web form will have a text area input that C >could transmit a large amount of text (more than 2000 bytes say). r> >I want to write the action for this form (using POST method) 9 >as a DCL script but when I try to DCL READ APACHE$INPUT M7 >I exceed the capacity of a DCL symbol (apparently).   t; >The READ works fine when data from form (in APACHE$INPUT) c >is not large. >n+ >If you have already dealt with this issue -- >or if you have any suggestions please reply.0  J This problem is generally a clue that you don't want to write your CGI in N DCL.  Use PERL and your life will be easier.  (This is nothing against writingG CGIs in DCL in general; just if you're trying to work with fields whosen3 contents are bigger than you can hold in a symbol.)e  O That said, OSU and WASD both have ways to deal with this problem, which involveiI running executables which chop up the input into digestible symbol sizes.E  I You could use the mod_osu support in CSWS/HPSWS to gain access to the OSUiL approach, but you'll then end up having to hassle pasting FIELD_NAME_LINE_1,L FIELD_NAME_LINE_2 etcetera symbols back together, which adds a layer of codeK complexity that you wouldn't have if you used something which doesn't have w DCL symbol-length-limitations.  K Alternatively, redesign your form to have multiple smaller textareas on it.    -- Alan  --  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 23:04:35 +0100u From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>4 Subject: Re: Using DCL for cgi-bin with SWS (Apache)1 Message-ID: <btkkq0$uc$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>o  Q In OpenVMS 7.3-2 symbols can be MUCH bigger then in previous versions of OpenVMS.e   Bill Davis wrote:y7 > Lets say a web form will have a text area input that AD > could transmit a large amount of text (more than 2000 bytes say). ? > I want to write the action for this form (using POST method) r: > as a DCL script but when I try to DCL READ APACHE$INPUT 8 > I exceed the capacity of a DCL symbol (apparently).   < > The READ works fine when data from form (in APACHE$INPUT)  > is not large.- > , > If you have already dealt with this issue . > or if you have any suggestions please reply. >  > Thanks >  > -bdt   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 04:52:51 GMTs> From: Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com>4 Subject: Re: Using DCL for cgi-bin with SWS (Apache); Message-ID: <DsqLb.5649$uH.2772@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>U   Bill Davis wrote:o7 > Lets say a web form will have a text area input that 1D > could transmit a large amount of text (more than 2000 bytes say). ? > I want to write the action for this form (using POST method) e: > as a DCL script but when I try to DCL READ APACHE$INPUT 8 > I exceed the capacity of a DCL symbol (apparently).   < > The READ works fine when data from form (in APACHE$INPUT)  > is not large.r > , > If you have already dealt with this issue . > or if you have any suggestions please reply. >  > Thanks >  > -bdn  C I have used perl and PHP to "chop up" these large symbols and then  F called DCL to do other work and passed back into PERL/PHP... but only  when necessary...a  I One cool thing is that you can use the same DCL symbols program from OSU o7 to do POST into Apache.  (hint -- use the logicals....)h     Michael Austin   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 22:20:16 +0000o) From: Tony Arnold <tony.arnold@man.ac.uk>u( Subject: Re: Vaxstation some question...9 Message-ID: <btkl30$8cim7$1@ID-207001.news.uni-berlin.de>    Davis,  
 DaviS* wrote:n  @ > Well, i have a "little" Vaxstation 4000VLC, running netbsd 1.6& > Works good, but i would try OpenVMS. > : > As a sysadmin on Unix, i haven't experience about vms...  I sysadmin on VMS is very different to that on Unix. Most sysadmin on Unix oF is done by editing config files somewhere. On VMS, there is usually a G utility with a command line interface for doing much of the qeuivalent eF sysadmin work. For example, on Unix one edits /etc/passwd to create a C user account (plus some other stuff). On VMS you run the AUTHORIZE l) utility and execute the ADD user command.e   > Question are : > G > - Wich version of OpenVMS?  (from DOC i'm reading 5.5 or greater, buta > 7.2/7.3 are supported) ?  E I'm currently running 7.3 on my VAXstation 4000/VLC. I'm not running eH DECwindows as I do not have a monitor, or rather I don't have the right ! monitor cable to get one to work!t  % >    In my VLC 24MB of Ram and 1GB HDi  H I also have 24MB, which I believe is the maximum for a 4000/VLC! 1GB HD & should also be big enough for VAX VMS.  $ > - Can i install OpenVMS from net??D >   I haven't external Cdrom, but i can "get" this unit from another > workstation.J >   There are problems about compatibily (es: speed) getting a cdrom 24x ?  B I think I would recommend attaching a CD-ROM drive to the VLC and D installing from there. It can be done remotely, but if this is your J first VMS install, I think the direct attached CD-ROM will be much easier.   24x CD-ROM should be OK too.  ! > Thank a lot for any information7   No problem. Have fun with VMS!   Tony.c --  F Tony Arnold, Deputy to the Head of COS Division, Manchester Computing,: University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL.F T: +44 (0)161 275 6093, F: +44 (0)870 136 1004, M: +44 (0)773 330 0039E E-mail: tony.arnold@man.ac.uk, Home: http://www.man.ac.uk/Tony.Arnoldi   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 02:41:06 +0000 (UTC)% From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase)r1 Subject: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?S( Message-ID: <btl4c2$s1u$1@pcls4.std.com>  J Are there any commonly adopted naming conventions used for organizing diskF based storage under VMS?  For example, in the land of Unix one usuallyJ places user account directories under "/home", often on a separate disk orH disk partition.  It's also common to find software specific to the localF installation under "/usr/local", and at one time it wasn't uncommon to- find GNU software installed under "/usr/gnu".   F I was wondering what's commonly done out there on VMS systems so I canH setup mine in such a way that they don't end up looking weird to someoneI familiar with VMS.  I can certainly imagine logical device names playing cF a useful role here, so underlying disk volumes can be shuffled around,B without having to change how everything references the moved data.   Thanks for any advice.   -brian.> -- tF --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----B        "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."5               -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:06:19 -0600( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>5 Subject: Re: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?r/ Message-ID: <00A2B9BC.1BBCE8DA.7@tachysoft.com>   & >From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms2 >Subject: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?+ >Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 02:41:06 +0000 (UTC)m   >SK >Are there any commonly adopted naming conventions used for organizing diskoG >based storage under VMS?  For example, in the land of Unix one usuallyeK >places user account directories under "/home", often on a separate disk oreI >disk partition.  It's also common to find software specific to the localiG >installation under "/usr/local", and at one time it wasn't uncommon to . >find GNU software installed under "/usr/gnu". >oG >I was wondering what's commonly done out there on VMS systems so I canoI >setup mine in such a way that they don't end up looking weird to someone J >familiar with VMS.  I can certainly imagine logical device names playing G >a useful role here, so underlying disk volumes can be shuffled around,zC >without having to change how everything references the moved data.3 >1    J As far as user accounts are concerned, I have seen two strategies that areG commonly used.  One is similar to the eunuchs approach in that the user9O directories are all under a common root, i.e. [users.joe],[users.bob], etc.  In O the other case, each user is given a top level directory on a disk, i.e. [joe],dH [bob].  In either case the users can be spread out over multiple disks. L (Except for the system disk.  Most sites prefer for that to contain just theL system files.)  Even if the [users] approach is used, the users can still beM placed on more than one disk by using multiple top level [users] directories,o? such as disk1:[users.joe],disk1:[users.bob], disk2:[users.sam],eM disk1:[users.mike].  However the user directories are organized, the entry inyJ the user authorization file points directly to the directory for the user.  M Another option is to break up the users into groups, such as by department or   function or some other criteria.  ? For instance: [software.joe],[software.sam],[accounting.larry], - [communications.george],[communications.dave]bO =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O ===============================================================================eB Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?", 	Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 01:25:03 -0500i* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>5 Subject: Re: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?n) Message-ID: <3FFE4918.98341A8A@istop.com>c   Wayne Sewell wrote:rN > system files.)  Even if the [users] approach is used, the users can still beO > placed on more than one disk by using multiple top level [users] directories,hA > such as disk1:[users.joe],disk1:[users.bob], disk2:[users.sam],rO > disk1:[users.mike].  However the user directories are organized, the entry in L > the user authorization file points directly to the directory for the user.  L You forgot the rooted logicals. Define USER to point to $disk2:[users.] withM the /translation=conceile,terminal) and in the SYSUAF, you use "USER:" as thee device name.  K This allows you to move user files to different locations without having too! change all the entries in SYSAUF.n  K If you wish to spread users on different drives/locations, you could define K USER1, USER2, USER3, USER4 to point to different locations. Randomly assignp# users to USERx, to spread the load.R   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:48:22 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>* Subject: Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome) Message-ID: <3FFC8CB5.C5798739@istop.com>l   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:: > VMS is in the business of "Business Critical Computing"   H No. The owners of VMS have decided to restrict VMS to "Business CriticalX Computing", which is just a buzzword for "sell it those those willing to pay a premium".  K The problem is thet fewer and fewer are willing to pay a premium for stuff.nK This is visible throughout the economy, from airlines to department stores.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 19:46:10 -0600M@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>* Subject: Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome6 Message-ID: <3FFCB662.1B41C35E@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > M > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message 2 > news:3FFB7ACA.34800557@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net... > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > > > [snip]L > > > We're all one big happy family.  We will run on the same hardware, and > userE > > > the same firmware.  The HW and FW are OS agnostic.  Part of ourr
 > competetive1J > > > advantage is this commonality, and that hardware is retargetable for > manyA > > > OS's.  A customer can buy a standard part, and just add SW.o > >cK > > If that's true, then OVMS-I64 should run as well on a Dell server as onr > > an hp, no? > L > How do you parse that out of my statement?  Our primary purpose here is toK > sell HP systems, software and services - I don't think it is to sell Dell N > hardware.  The statement had zip to say about running on other companies IPFA > systems (but which we have addressed many times in this forum).C   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > 6 > A customer can buy a standard part, and just add SW.   Did I misread your intent?   -- M David J. Dachtera/ dba DJE Systemsm http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 02:12:57 GMTbL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")* Subject: Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome6 Message-ID: <00A2B8D2.577688A6@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  y In article <3FFCB662.1B41C35E@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:t >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:e >> rN >> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message3 >> news:3FFB7ACA.34800557@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net...f >> > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:m
 >> > > [snip]mM >> > > We're all one big happy family.  We will run on the same hardware, and  >> useF >> > > the same firmware.  The HW and FW are OS agnostic.  Part of our >> competetiveK >> > > advantage is this commonality, and that hardware is retargetable for3 >> many B >> > > OS's.  A customer can buy a standard part, and just add SW. >> >L >> > If that's true, then OVMS-I64 should run as well on a Dell server as on >> > an hp, no?- >> -M >> How do you parse that out of my statement?  Our primary purpose here is to2L >> sell HP systems, software and services - I don't think it is to sell DellO >> hardware.  The statement had zip to say about running on other companies IPFrB >> systems (but which we have addressed many times in this forum). >n >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:0 >> g7 >> A customer can buy a standard part, and just add SW.z >> >Did I misread your intent?i  L Apparently.  I think Fred mean "An HP customer can order a generic HP serverM with X number of CPUs and Y amount of RAM, same part number and price whetheraH it's meant to run VMS, Linux, HP/UX, or whatever, and then order the OS K separately.  HP gets to build one set of servers, stock one set of spares, "L develop one set of hardware diagnostics, etc, etc; customers get to pay the A same price for hardware regardless of what OS it's meant to run."e  B I think you read "a standard part" as "an industry-standard part."   -- Alane -- iO =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056SM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025iO ===============================================================================i   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 02:49:56 GMThL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")* Subject: Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome6 Message-ID: <00A2B8D7.823AE628@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  y In article <3FFCC4F7.F08E11B5@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:u+ >Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:y >> i >> >Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >> >> : >> >> A customer can buy a standard part, and just add SW. >> > >> >Did I misread your intent? >> tO >> Apparently.  I think Fred mean "An HP customer can order a generic HP servertP >> with X number of CPUs and Y amount of RAM, same part number and price whetherJ >> it's meant to run VMS, Linux, HP/UX, or whatever, and then order the OSM >> separately.  HP gets to build one set of servers, stock one set of spares,UN >> develop one set of hardware diagnostics, etc, etc; customers get to pay theD >> same price for hardware regardless of what OS it's meant to run." >> sE >> I think you read "a standard part" as "an industry-standard part."o >g8 >Well, isn't "industry-standard" what -I64 is all about?  > I just stepped in here to resolve what I thought was an honestK misunderstanding about what Fred meant.  I'm not planning to argue with you % about what he _ought_ to have meant. l   -- Alan    -- -O ===============================================================================f0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056tM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025rO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jan 2004 20:58:53 -0600e+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)a* Subject: Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome3 Message-ID: <AMgjEA4ArAuC@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  V In article <3FFC8CB5.C5798739@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:; >> VMS is in the business of "Business Critical Computing" o > J > No. The owners of VMS have decided to restrict VMS to "Business CriticalZ > Computing", which is just a buzzword for "sell it those those willing to pay a premium".  C 	Smart move.  Just like IBM restricted OS/390 to Business Critical.n  M > The problem is thet fewer and fewer are willing to pay a premium for stuff.wM > This is visible throughout the economy, from airlines to department stores.i  A 	Makes business sense.  Just like it makes sense to move textile i) 	manufacturing to the lowest cost center.o   				Robu   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 20:48:23 -0600t@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>* Subject: Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome6 Message-ID: <3FFCC4F7.F08E11B5@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote: > { > In article <3FFCB662.1B41C35E@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:- > >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:p > >>P > >> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message5 > >> news:3FFB7ACA.34800557@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net...v > >> > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  > >> > > [snip]aO > >> > > We're all one big happy family.  We will run on the same hardware, ande > >> useH > >> > > the same firmware.  The HW and FW are OS agnostic.  Part of our > >> competetiveM > >> > > advantage is this commonality, and that hardware is retargetable forb	 > >> manyyD > >> > > OS's.  A customer can buy a standard part, and just add SW. > >> >N > >> > If that's true, then OVMS-I64 should run as well on a Dell server as on > >> > an hp, no?0 > >>O > >> How do you parse that out of my statement?  Our primary purpose here is tocN > >> sell HP systems, software and services - I don't think it is to sell DellQ > >> hardware.  The statement had zip to say about running on other companies IPF D > >> systems (but which we have addressed many times in this forum). > >e > >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:d > >>9 > >> A customer can buy a standard part, and just add SW.  > >  > >Did I misread your intent?n > N > Apparently.  I think Fred mean "An HP customer can order a generic HP serverO > with X number of CPUs and Y amount of RAM, same part number and price whethertI > it's meant to run VMS, Linux, HP/UX, or whatever, and then order the OSmL > separately.  HP gets to build one set of servers, stock one set of spares,M > develop one set of hardware diagnostics, etc, etc; customers get to pay thetC > same price for hardware regardless of what OS it's meant to run."  > D > I think you read "a standard part" as "an industry-standard part."  7 Well, isn't "industry-standard" what -I64 is all about?t   -- t David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 11:56:45 +0000aO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>u* Subject: Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome0 Message-ID: <btjghu$3l4$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:M > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in messaged2 > news:3FFB7ACA.34800557@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net... >  >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >>	 >>>[snip]-I >>>We're all one big happy family.  We will run on the same hardware, and  >  > use  > B >>>the same firmware.  The HW and FW are OS agnostic.  Part of our > 
 > competetive  > G >>>advantage is this commonality, and that hardware is retargetable for  >  > many > > >>>OS's.  A customer can buy a standard part, and just add SW. >>I >>If that's true, then OVMS-I64 should run as well on a Dell server as oni >>an hp, no? >  > L > How do you parse that out of my statement?  Our primary purpose here is toK > sell HP systems, software and services - I don't think it is to sell DelliN > hardware.  The statement had zip to say about running on other companies IPFA > systems (but which we have addressed many times in this forum).g >   9 You don't make money out of selling any computer hardwarer
 currently.  ( So why would you want to sell hardware ?  5 Take OpenVMS, your quarterly revenue for Alphaserversy2 running OpenVMS is ~65 million dollars, with ~1500 units.  1 This is an average after discount of 43K per unit.. or put another way the average number of CPU's1 in an AlphaServer running OpenVMS is 2, you arn't 4 even in ES45 territory which is ~110K after discount for the ES45 with 4 CPU's.  5 This puts you slap bang in the 2 way commodity serveri9 market. Now at the moment Itanium servers arn't commodity 4 but if Itanium is to succeed then it has to become a
 commodity.  5 If it becomes a commodity it will be because Dell and 4 IBM get behind it and sell large quantities of IA-642 based servers and if this happens then HP will not2 be able to charge a premium for the Itanium server# platform on which OpenVMS will run.   . HP has a track record of failing to make money2 competing with in particular Dell in the commodity. server and desktop market. Replacing IA32 with0 IA64 is a technology change not a change in HP's- business model and won't in the low end spacea* have any impact on HP's ability to compete, with Dell who already undercut HP with their IA64 server(s).   . Nor is there much hope that OpenVMS can escape* the commodity squeeze by retreating to the* high end. this is because as other posters* have pointed out OpenVMS currently doesn't* scale to more than 16 CPU's or put another& way the sweet spot is probably 8 CPU's% which is still uncomfortably close to 
 commodity.  % With OpenVMS's clustering capabilitesi" the most obvious platform would be  clusters of 2-4 way IA64 servers  which if they become a commodity HP will not make money on.  " So I repeat why on earth would you# want to sell hardware. You are mucht! more likely to make a return from. selling SW.b  ' You are between a rock and a hard placee' for Itanium to survive it has to become ( a commodity, but you can only make money- at the low end if you arn't having to competel on a commodity basis with Dell.f   Regardsr Andrew Harrison            >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:57:12 GMTh# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>d* Subject: Re: VMS runs well on HP SuperdomeI Message-ID: <s5fLb.38404$AAe1.18872@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>e   Rob Young wrote:4 > In article <3FFC8CB5.C5798739@istop.com>, JF Mezei% > <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:  >> Fred Kleinsorge wrote:a; >>> VMS is in the business of "Business Critical Computing"m >>B >> No. The owners of VMS have decided to restrict VMS to "Business >> Criticalg@ >> Computing", which is just a buzzword for "sell it those those >> willing to pay a premium".- >-D > Smart move.  Just like IBM restricted OS/390 to Business Critical. >HG >> The problem is thet fewer and fewer are willing to pay a premium forc	 >> stuff.RF >> This is visible throughout the economy, from airlines to department
 >> stores. >-A > Makes business sense.  Just like it makes sense to move textilei* > manufacturing to the lowest cost center.    J Sure. And when the business critical need is located in India or China andB your customer says "We're a low cost, low wage country having beenI outsourced to by American ccompanies because we are cheaper than US laborrI and they want us to continue to shave our already low prices to the bone,o) then we can't afford your expensive VMS."r   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 08:27:55 -0800h( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)* Subject: Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0401080827.1172409d@posting.google.com>o   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<btjghu$3l4$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...y > ' > With OpenVMS's clustering capabilites $ > the most obvious platform would be" > clusters of 2-4 way IA64 servers" > which if they become a commodity > HP will not make money on. > $ > So I repeat why on earth would you% > want to sell hardware. You are mucha# > more likely to make a return from 
 > selling SW.o > ) > You are between a rock and a hard placeo) > for Itanium to survive it has to become * > a commodity, but you can only make money/ > at the low end if you arn't having to compete ! > on a commodity basis with Dell.- > 	 > Regards- > Andrew Harrisonn  9 exactly, and with HP the only Itanium vendor offering VMSn5 to both the high and low end, you achieve both of them: above ... get VMS into the low end big has always been the6 key ... if you do that, you will dominate ... no other6 platform offers what VMS does, so this is possible ...   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 17:42:22 GMTc9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>t* Subject: Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome4 Message-ID: <2EgLb.11879$ei3.11273@news.cpqcorp.net>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; wrote in message news:btjghu$3l4$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...t > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:G > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote inr messaget4 > > news:3FFB7ACA.34800557@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net...  $ > So I repeat why on earth would you% > want to sell hardware. You are muchs# > more likely to make a return from 
 > selling SW.u > ) > You are between a rock and a hard places) > for Itanium to survive it has to becomer* > a commodity, but you can only make money/ > at the low end if you arn't having to compete ! > on a commodity basis with Dell.-  K I guess I'll ask the same question of you:  Why is Sun still in business atMG all?  The best you've done in a few years is break even in one quarter.-7 Solaris runs on a PC - why not ditch all your hardware?8   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 17:21:45 +0000dO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>t* Subject: Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome0 Message-ID: <btk3ja$ag8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:t > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<btjghu$3l4$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...c > ' >>With OpenVMS's clustering capabilitesr$ >>the most obvious platform would be" >>clusters of 2-4 way IA64 servers" >>which if they become a commodity >>HP will not make money on. >>$ >>So I repeat why on earth would you% >>want to sell hardware. You are muchg# >>more likely to make a return frome
 >>selling SW.o >>) >>You are between a rock and a hard placew) >>for Itanium to survive it has to becomed* >>a commodity, but you can only make money/ >>at the low end if you arn't having to competee! >>on a commodity basis with Dell.n >>	 >>Regardso >>Andrew Harrisono >  > ; > exactly, and with HP the only Itanium vendor offering VMS 7 > to both the high and low end, you achieve both of the < > above ... get VMS into the low end big has always been the8 > key ... if you do that, you will dominate ... no other8 > platform offers what VMS does, so this is possible ...    . Well from a system size standpoint its already5 there the average number of CPU's in the Alphaserverss HP is currently shipping is ~2.l  ; And of course everything is possible Bob but is it likely ?   7 For it to be likely OpenVMS would need applications youi3 cannot dominate a market that is driven by softwarep3 applications without them and lets face it softwaret. availability on OpenVMS isn't improving is it.  5 For it to dominate OpenVMS would also need marketing,h5 business development, sales, sales support, 3rd partyn
 channels etc.e  1 None of this is improving is it ? So its possibleV/ the OpenVMS could dominate but highly unlikely.a   regardsd Andrew Harrisonr   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:07:35 -0500r* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>* Subject: Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome) Message-ID: <3FFDE2AD.127D9E4D@istop.com>t   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:M > I guess I'll ask the same question of you:  Why is Sun still in business atmI > all?  The best you've done in a few years is break even in one quarter. 9 > Solaris runs on a PC - why not ditch all your hardware?M  L Why is HP still in the HP-UX, Tandem and (supposedly) VMS business at all ? 5 Shouldn't HP be considered an ink packaging company ?d   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 19:14:35 -0600r@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>* Subject: Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome6 Message-ID: <3FFE007B.ACDB68C1@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Rob Young wrote: > X > In article <3FFC8CB5.C5798739@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:< > >> VMS is in the business of "Business Critical Computing" > >nL > > No. The owners of VMS have decided to restrict VMS to "Business Critical\ > > Computing", which is just a buzzword for "sell it those those willing to pay a premium". > L >         Smart move.  Just like IBM restricted OS/390 to Business Critical.  * I sincerely hope you're being sarcastic...  O > > The problem is thet fewer and fewer are willing to pay a premium for stuff. O > > This is visible throughout the economy, from airlines to department stores.c > I >         Makes business sense.  Just like it makes sense to move textilee2 >         manufacturing to the lowest cost center.  : Depends. What does it cost the company to save that money?   -- r David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsf http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:38:34 -0500t* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>- Subject: Re: VMS to VMS copying between Nodes?) Message-ID: <3FFC8A69.1921D800@istop.com>    Simon wrote:G > neat. With only TCP/IP this doesn't work for me, it just says 'remoteeG > node unknown'. Does anyone know how to make it work with TCP/IP? Am Ie > trying the wrong thing here?  K you need to use the COPY/FTP command, which is fully documented in the HELPu	 COPY/FTP m  I Also, with COPY/FTP, you need to use a TCPIP host name, not a decnet node L name. Some DNS servers will add the domain name if you specify only the node] (for instance, if you specify only "cake", it may automatically resolve "cake.chocolate.com".g   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:50:33 -0600% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>h- Subject: Re: VMS to VMS copying between Nodesn9 Message-ID: <Ze6Lb.27052$VV4.14313@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>h  , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A2B897.3A003D93@SendSpamHere.ORG...H > In article <nE4IQUX0MxY1@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>, huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) writes:@ > >In article <b2d9b89e.0401070723.2a440932@posting.google.com>,) simon.adaway@ukaea.org.uk (Simon) writes:- > >>K > >> With Decnet running I could do Node to Node VMS copying easily (did it.J > >> use LAT?) with the copy command and specifying a remote node - it was' > >no, not LAT, it is a DECnet protocolDJ > >> neat. With only TCP/IP this doesn't work for me, it just says 'remoteJ > >> node unknown'. Does anyone know how to make it work with TCP/IP? Am I! > >> trying the wrong thing here?a > >t@ > >Either install DECnet-plus (DECnet phase V), then You can useC > > "DECnet over TCP/IP", where You have again copy and other file-h4 > >access possibilities as under DECnet IV, just use* > >the full domain name as node-name, e.g.+ > >$ copy full.domain.name"user"::file [] .eD > >DECnet over TCPIP does not need a DECnet router, but needs 2 openA > >ports (102,399 if I remember well) on an evtl. TCPIP firewall.n >lC > I second this suggestion.  I use this here myself.  VMSmail workst< > over this as well along with other DECnet type operations. >.  K If you can afford the NIC ports, and hub/switches, I would recommend addingn- a DECNET/Management network for this traffic.e  G You can do Decnet over IP, but if your network weenies do not want thissF traffic over the primary IP, see if you can get a seperate netowrk forL DECNET traffic.  Just plug it in, and it works!  :-)  No IP setup is needed!  E You can also configure Decnet to use this instead of the primary (IP)  network.   > --D > http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityE >                             solutions that others only claim to be.h > --2 > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >n6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 05:47:27 -0800=( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)- Subject: Re: VMS to VMS copying between NodesD= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0401080547.55e09114@posting.google.com>P  l simon.adaway@ukaea.org.uk (Simon) wrote in message news:<b2d9b89e.0401070723.2a440932@posting.google.com>... > Hi Folks,= > H > With Decnet running I could do Node to Node VMS copying easily (did itG > use LAT?) with the copy command and specifying a remote node - it wasmG > neat. With only TCP/IP this doesn't work for me, it just says 'remotegG > node unknown'. Does anyone know how to make it work with TCP/IP? Am Ic > trying the wrong thing here? >  > Thanks in advance  >  > Simonw  7 use TCPware IP stack so you can do phase IV over IP ...h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 13:21:34 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>pM Subject: Re: Well Andrew, "3" count them "3" security patches for VMS in fivem0 Message-ID: <btjlgu$5d8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:E > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<btem4e$crl$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  >>Bob Ceculski wrote:- >>k >>>Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<pHDs4F8$EuqD@eisner.encompasserve.org>...c >>>> >>>j >>>>In article <btc7f5$b6t$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >>>s >>>w> >>>listen Andrew, VMS security mup kits are rarely issued, and; >>>don't confuse ucx flaws with VMS os and kernel flaws ... : >>>no one is hiding anything, except you, and you know the= >>>truth is VMS has had 13 cert advisories compared to 1000'sd; >>>for unix/linux/windoze convuluted garbage ... that's ther8 >>>fact ... so quit trolling and put away your water gun0 >>>cause the black helicopters aren't coming ... >>8 >>Bob security holes in ucx are just as problematical as+ >>VMS OS holes, don't get confused by that.P >>; >>Claiming that the IP stack isn't really part of VMS whileh> >>counting IP stack advisories for other OS's in your BS stats4 >>only serves to illustrate that you are just BSing. >>< >>Adding the CERTS for all the other OS's, UNIX, Windows etc> >>and comparing them with one OS VMS again only serves to show= >>that you are just BSsing. In case you hadn't noticed singleo? >>systems generally run one OS and are therefore only vunerableq >>to the exploits for that OS. >>B >>Claiming that TCPWARE etc are any better as you almost certainlyE >>will is also BS, you misslead the group about TCPWARES vunerability F >>to a number of exploits an the patch reports caught you out (again). >>? >>A troll Bob is someone who keeps making BS claims that he/shen6 >>cannot justify in an attempt to generate discussion. >>D >>You have consistently shown yourself to be incapable of supportingE >>your claims instead as with most trolls you layer wilder and wilderp0 >>claims on top of allready disproven arguments. >>> >>Give up you are only making yourself and OpenVMS look silly. >>	 >>Regardsc >>Andrew Harrisonm >  > A > even with TCPware, only one security patch was issued mandatory = > in the last few years that I have installed ... another was 1 > for smtp ... so even with TCPware, you lose ...m  * Bob how challenged do you want to appear ?  1 I don't lose because the measure you are using isa4 worthless. Its rather like the manager of a football2 team claiming that the team he manages won despite0 conceding more goals than the opposition because! he had more players in his squad.a  - Ask yourself another question, why is it juste+ you who is promoting this ridiculous test ?o  0 There are plenty of people posting on this group1 who have no hesitation in sliming another OS evenh0 if they are only motivated by a desire to divert attention from OpenVMS.f  . Could it be that all your potential supporters0 are sitting on their hands because plucky little Bob is doing fine by himself ?  / Well you know the answer to that, Plucky littleo+ Bob in fact could really do with some help.t  . Could the fact that your argument is basically+ BS and worse BS that many OpenVMS advocates - would very much perfer not to have publicallye/ examined because it poses more tricky questions  than they would like ?  - Remember every time you have trotted out thist, particular BS a small amount of research has+ revealed more examples of why your argument2 doesn't hold water.r  / I only found the TCPWARE vunerability documentsn+ because you tried to slime UNIX again and I-, really wasn't trying. How many vunerabilites) are there really out there, who knows butd1 every time you slime you get another vunerability  back in your face.  0 I generally don't have such a long term dialogue0 with Trolls like yourself but you are proving to0 be an incredibly usefully catalyst in helping to0 burst the OpenVMS is as secure as a secure thing0 mindset that most OpenVMS advocates appear to be suffering from.e   Regardss Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:18:47 +0100( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>M Subject: Re: Well Andrew, "3" count them "3" security patches for VMS in fivei: Message-ID: <MCELKPMOKPMNDNKJNIONOEJDCIAA.win@fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  O the OpenVMS OS and its kernel routines do have less security wholes. But if youdM will count some layered product as OS, then you are a little bit right. TheretP are a few security wholes within the TCP/IP ware. Because the new one comes fromI the buggy UNIX. The must one security wholes are from the buffer overflow,P problem. There are a lot of kernel routines and system integrated product withinN UNIX (Solaris and LINUX included), which do have this problem. I dont know noJ routine within the OpenVMS kernel with that problem. Also will be a bufferM overflow within TCP/IP ware not a big problem (in case of memory protection),i5 because the normal user dont get system priviledges.4   Best regards R. WingertS   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 02:11:35 +0000 (UTC)% From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) < Subject: Where to get layered product software for hobbyist?( Message-ID: <btl2kn$bpb$1@pcls4.std.com>  G The inevitable next step of setting up my VMS system(s), beyond loading I the base OS install and the layered products provided on the hobbyist CD,nG involves getting my hands on some distribution media for all the other g	 fun toys.m  F Where might someone about an hour south of Indianapolis, IN find mediaE with the appropriate software for OpenVMS VAX 7.3?  CD media would becF easiest for me, I think, but I've also got a TLZ06 4mm DAT drive I canI use.  I'm not entirely adverse to buying a pile of CDs from HP, but I've a+ a feeling that's a rather expensive option.3   -brian.s -- aF --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----B        "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."5               -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943j   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 15:02:22 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)B Subject: Re: [Survey] Your best choice for an X Client on Lostdows. Message-ID: <btjrdu$1af$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  } RvS_Internals <no@spam.com> writes in article <3ffd635d$0$22299$626a54ce@news.free.fr> dated Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:02:20 +0100: O >I'm in the process of setting up X communications from my VAX and Alpha to my u  >laptop running Lostdows XP Pro. >:J >I did a test with a free evaluation version of Hummingbird, which worked Q >perfectly. However, the product is awfully expensive, as it does much more than  
 >what I need.e >uP >What would be your best choice for a cheap professional X-Windows Client on XP?  	 Exceed.  t  H Or if you have an Intel/Linux box available, Xvnc.  Then your VMS box isI talking X to the virtual display server on Linux, and your Windows system=I talks VNC (not X) to the Linux server.  This setup has the advantage thatn9 your VMS X-windows session will survive a Windows reboot.t  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:02:20 +0100 ! From: RvS_Internals <no@spam.com>s> Subject: [Survey] Your best choice for an X Client on Lostdows4 Message-ID: <3ffd635d$0$22299$626a54ce@news.free.fr>  N I'm in the process of setting up X communications from my VAX and Alpha to my  laptop running Lostdows XP Pro.a  I I did a test with a free evaluation version of Hummingbird, which worked hP perfectly. However, the product is awfully expensive, as it does much more than  what I need.  O What would be your best choice for a cheap professional X-Windows Client on XP?:   Thanks   -- w D. aka RvS_Internals  ;    Visit the (unofficial) GCP site: www.ravenshield-gcp.org < The GCP is the French Groupement des Commandos Parachutistes:    Raven Shield server is "GCP : Neutraliser les hostiles";   HP Hyperthreading Pentium IV 2.2 GHz system ADSL 1024/128y7      RvS v1.51 + PunkBuster v1.066 / Team Survival onlyo   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2004 12:14:24 -0600l; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)fB Subject: Re: [Survey] Your best choice for an X Client on Lostdows3 Message-ID: <57sqX4ZqGYOt@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <btjrdu$1af$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes:1 > J > Or if you have an Intel/Linux box available, Xvnc.  Then your VMS box isK > talking X to the virtual display server on Linux, and your Windows systemeK > talks VNC (not X) to the Linux server.  This setup has the advantage that ; > your VMS X-windows session will survive a Windows reboot.s  G    Not necessarily a Linux box.  VNC runs on most boxes.  Unfortunatelyi;    IIRC the server doesn't run on VMS yet, just the client.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 14:40:20 GMTe< From: "John E. Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp>B Subject: Re: [Survey] Your best choice for an X Client on Lostdows3 Message-ID: <oZdLb.11850$u43.7443@news.cpqcorp.net>.   RvS_Internals wrote:J > I'm in the process of setting up X communications from my VAX and Alpha ' > to my laptop running Lostdows XP Pro.v > K > I did a test with a free evaluation version of Hummingbird, which worked 3H > perfectly. However, the product is awfully expensive, as it does much  > more than what I need. > K > What would be your best choice for a cheap professional X-Windows Client   > on XP?  G The portion of X-windows that controls the display is the Server.  The d) client is the application supplying data.a  @ HP sells Pathworks-32 which contains eXcursion, a full featured A professional X Server, and a VT400 series terminal emulator.  In -J addtion, you get DECNET and LAT protocals that you can optionally install.  H I used it in a keyboard/mouse-less display system where all the display I attributes needed to be controlled by the remote host about 5 years ago. aE   eXcursion was the only X-11 server that honored the initial screen IF placement commands so that the display was correct and the same as on F the VAXstations.  One application needed some of the data to be below 9 the physical screen so that the windows would not overlap.  @ All the other X-11 servers I tested overrode the default screen D placement and overlapped the windows.  They would only position the H displayed data correctly if the screens were dragged into position with  a mouse.  H I think you will find the price for eXcursion very competitive with the E other commercial servers.  But I do not know what you consider cheap.SD At the time I did my test, it was the lowest priced commercial X-11  server in the group.  2 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/swcat/us/pathwrks32.html  : http://h18000.www1.hp.com/emea/software/uk/pathwrks32.html   -Johnt! malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp> Personal Opinion Only@J Not a representative of the Pathworks32 group, just a user of the product.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 10:58:49 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <My.Full.Name@intel.com>B Subject: Re: [Survey] Your best choice for an X Client on Lostdows+ Message-ID: <btk99b$u9c$1@news01.intel.com>t   RvS_Internals wrote:J > I'm in the process of setting up X communications from my VAX and Alpha ' > to my laptop running Lostdows XP Pro.  > K > I did a test with a free evaluation version of Hummingbird, which worked hH > perfectly. However, the product is awfully expensive, as it does much  > more than what I need.  @ Well I use Hummingbird Exceed day in and day out on XP, and haveB found it to be pretty much trouble free.  But mostly, I am able toD map all the keys on my LK461-AA (work) and LK462-A2 (home) keyboardsB faithfully.  I feel as comfortable using Exceed on my laptop (withA one of the two mentioned keyboards and a 3-button mouse attached)  as I do using my PWS600au. :-)  > But then, I didn't have to buy the product as my employer paid: for it.  Don't know what to do about the cost issue... :-(   	-Ken, -- h6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfields! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 14:30:59 -0500t& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>B Subject: Re: [Survey] Your best choice for an X Client on Lostdows8 Message-ID: <kqarvv4v6qd98j9poqjc099kbguh9a0iu3@4ax.com>  F On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:02:20 +0100, RvS_Internals <no@spam.com> wrote:  P >What would be your best choice for a cheap professional X-Windows Client on XP? >   P The responses so far run to eXceed and eXcursions. I happen to have eXceed on myN company-owned PC, but can't (won't) spend that kind of money for my home PC to access my hobbyist system.  < I'd like to know if anyone has experience with CygWin/X, see   	http://www.cygwin.com/xfree/gI -------------------------------------------------------------------------2I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comlI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)tI -------------------------------------------------------------------------g   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 19:45:23 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)B Subject: Re: [Survey] Your best choice for an X Client on Lostdows. Message-ID: <btkc0j$9sr$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes in article <57sqX4ZqGYOt@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 8 Jan 2004 12:14:24 -0600:^ >In article <btjrdu$1af$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes:K >> Or if you have an Intel/Linux box available, Xvnc.  Then your VMS box iswL >> talking X to the virtual display server on Linux, and your Windows systemL >> talks VNC (not X) to the Linux server.  This setup has the advantage that< >> your VMS X-windows session will survive a Windows reboot. >sH >   Not necessarily a Linux box.  VNC runs on most boxes.  Unfortunately< >   IIRC the server doesn't run on VMS yet, just the client.  G I've used the VMS<-->Xvnc setup on several platforms, and the one which=K stands out as ultra-reliable is Intel/Linux.  SPARC/Solaris, PPC/Linux, andiB Alpha/Linux all work, but the server process tends to crash, whichA effectively ends your X session.  That's why I was specific in mya recommendation.=  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 11:56:52 +0000g8 From: David McKenzie <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz>B Subject: Re: [Survey] Your best choice for an X Client on LostdowsC Message-ID: <3ffe2224$0$74323$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>r   David M Smith wrote:  H > On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:02:20 +0100, RvS_Internals <no@spam.com> wrote: > J >>What would be your best choice for a cheap professional X-Windows Client >>on XP? >> > L > The responses so far run to eXceed and eXcursions. I happen to have eXceedK > on my company-owned PC, but can't (won't) spend that kind of money for mye' > home PC to access my hobbyist system.m > > > I'd like to know if anyone has experience with CygWin/X, see >  > http://www.cygwin.com/xfree/K > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- K > David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comeK > Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)NK > -------------------------------------------------------------------------D  K I use Cygwin as an Xserver regularly to talk to my Linux boxes and have no  L problem. I think there are lots of other goodies in their like a full blown L development environment but have not really played with them. Unfortunately J I do not have VMS client to test cygwin against. But for me so far Cygwin 	 is great.t   -- s David McKenzie  remove rugby  - Web:            http://www.paradigm-shift.bizs7 Mail            David.McKenzie@paradigm-shift.rugby.bizg   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.016 ************************re.  The HW and FW are OS agnostic.  Part of our > >> competetiveM > >> > > advantage is this commonality, and that hardware is retargetable forb	 > >> manyyD > >> > > OS's.  A customer can buy a standard part, and just add SW. > >> >N > >> > If that's true, then OVMS-I64 should run as well on a Dell server as on > >> > an hp, no?0 > >>O > >> How do you parse that out of my statement?  Our primary purpose here is tocN > >> sell HP systems, software and services ?p3s~3\|/fSAr_?C~k)beh>ͣe].ޟk?
8%ߛʜ4檽ՏY>m3odG?;[,?.&ˏ_gFKVK%}eȭBe~L
⼽9fEX<W=,N,_|O|_P9mdANf!P=S0/[%ñ`#y$t:31ȭ<u-2lI܌|>WDy1;`a`' aiÏT/&>!NO(\.;yEwjKS=/GRw2$y{\t7v)D?mK?: ҼrNZN@`Ԧa_cz/˛~8VdkF	C'yGR&yq2R6EG F
6}5>Vm'
ڕj]+[a~4*v؛2N;J\ɝ4ȼwZ;+<KOO-ևJ.o	ͼX&~r܎&qW	uM{7e%YOD
3kuڟ5"Ѿae*kOW?o;vJOM鉩:
|X#8A5]C)?C 蟁@u.^w#x>ڕ:<zCX~z,D?'mopd}!KDnؾ@ltł7W63| tAkl9z?r{|3PKTd*owI;-AǗ"+FfQ"_~+_\/4ao#{^Đg>bEH'(ØUD݈ߐ[/st	r?>'y0NOmDiY=_|_֢%syUoMWh'MǷrx@D̥%cׂENtyYy9LO_{mDT/ Qȷ3sۢw|S
;B!ioE;zC.CFe6y0_L鍿րnIږ=y>s-Fz>cH~yχY|(R`{C.
H.7@~uOq~Gjx//:^7Yް/KۓƮ٘YBaɂ+Yq$?mhgw該;S)>CR`^9?3~'!2GhtL3ې^/k|xD#Ƙt=u~|(jYd3Y;9yGj9ɴ>9YG2ԚyxP^cfՂC<wb"Zh{_Bx}( ])(Dݨ|rI]\ygӂNY`?ǷvggWbmܼu+gsE	jQ?oG7wFD۞s38ۭH1娃+sGƽKGnv	9_
98MGH~淼pmg aW mF;dgd30mx:Ð~5%sY#[
;<71Qyw%3*`ԟ|n<7a<g^^FF\%n8Ei_}Hry 
9(/=s$gC\S*Gv=$oK{E]Ov~dK8`ݧ_-";D}C	
I<G~S@3zԄ+lT4B&^$Y.k
/vQ y.t֖FKd7IWӼmxϕitH1!u
0|o@R)7v[&\6y	;HP*\uiQѦ߫N7:J*%URe4i]y)\$QIG<w:}A^kߓBώZ2pET;p"GV6ehjjGTM|'؆
H'Jyl }̿P$9!b6Eܤ5M
/Qj|WߑW?uI"`UVѼIR:nny<q-\~^gg//i)[]s$vRMgt+y
~tڔyfYOϖs6}/;zSyڼ7ulgy<e}Fiv\>;.5/go{u wQzd9\O
/
.)?Om }N..vrsE.Q;.z
EOerggB*3MϨEةUF$!]t.3٪y>z*'yZ'y.]CZEĸ'xݠf]0̛Kت8`9q_&-T ^s|γdx|f?
ߩXI~ց|7͏vgvImb;}Bz'>>'bSP.rE+i>_'b<JIGOzYiݠ?}
,?>'$d"װCy@~1VN
ik#/`R{*O0GuW̤
kLCF"i*~'oǳI|/u/Aen)/Jl[&= u{4N}JqGn,6PҘ Ѩ~ڤŽ,S~kXLQ~;Ok.#
I\C4sn>