0 INFO-VAX	Mon, 12 Jan 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 23      Contents: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... Re: 7.3-1 to 7.3-2 Re: 7.3-1 to 7.3-2/ Re: A Christmas gift to all haters of Micro$hit / Re: A Christmas gift to all haters of Micro$hit - Re: Alpha macro (64) and the OTS$... routines ? Re: ANN: FreeeTDS 0.62 Sybase & MS SQL client software released ? Re: Anyone connected a SANswitch 2/8EL console to DECserver 700 ; Re: Brazil == was: Experienced OpenVMS Admin/Guru available ; Re: Brazil == was: Experienced OpenVMS Admin/Guru available  Re: Can't boot. Please help.! Re: Could OpenVMS-Athlon ever be? ! Re: Could OpenVMS-Athlon ever be? ! Re: Could OpenVMS-Athlon ever be?  Re: ds10l blowout  Re: ds10l blowout  Re: ds10l blowout  Re: ds10l blowout  Re: ds10l blowout  Re: ds10l blowout  Re: end-search next sentence, Re: Experienced OpenVMS Admin/Guru available, Re: Experienced OpenVMS Admin/Guru available4 Re: Hints to upgrade DS10L ? (Was Re: ds10l blowout) Re: HP FUDBusting  Re: HP FUDBusting 3 Re: Non-WS Process Quotas not in Performance Manual 3 Re: Non-WS Process Quotas not in Performance Manual 3 Re: Non-WS Process Quotas not in Performance Manual 3 Re: Non-WS Process Quotas not in Performance Manual P Re: Oracle Rdb on GS1280 with 7.3-2 exceeds 1 million transactions per minute us  Re: Rally VAX to Alpha Migration, Re: Slightly OT: Code Red on the rise again?@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems VAX architecture and Charon  Re: VAX architecture and Charon  Re: VAX architecture and Charon  Re: VAX architecture and Charon  Re: VAX architecture and Charon  Re: VAX architecture and Charon  Re: VAXstation question  Re: VAXstation question  Re: VAXstation question , Re: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?, Re: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?, Re: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?, Re: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?, Re: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?, Re: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?, Re: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?! Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome D Re: Well Andrew, "3" count them "3" security patches for VMS in five  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 03:38:19 -0800. From: mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon)# Subject: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... = Message-ID: <7500353b.0401120338.5ff44716@posting.google.com>   ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=13566   F Opteron has also outsaled the whole history if itanium processors last year..  F As Intel infamously stated - no-one would like to have 64 bit to their" desktop for several years to come.   M    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:46:44 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)  Subject: Re: 7.3-1 to 7.3-2 3 Message-ID: <8zxMb.12089$gZ7.3334@news.cpqcorp.net>   1 In article <00A2BAD6.59C2A0AB@SendSpamHere.ORG>,  " VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:   [V7.3-1 to V7.3-2] ..J >My experience was two install failures resulting in OS restores until theK >PCSI installation finally complained about the SSH EAK resulting in abort- K >ing the third attempt to install V7.3-2 to PRODUCT REMOVE the SSH EAK kit. $ >Fourth time 'round was a charm. ...  & I appologize for the problems you had.  F If you care to share some details, I'd like to know how/why ther first two upgrade attempts failed.  E I'd also like to know the problem reported with SSH EAK, and why this ' didn't show up until the third attempt.    Post here or email.  Thanks.   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:13:00 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: 7.3-1 to 7.3-2 0 Message-ID: <00A2BC7D.2B1C4187@SendSpamHere.ORG>  i In article <8zxMb.12089$gZ7.3334@news.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes: 2 >In article <00A2BAD6.59C2A0AB@SendSpamHere.ORG>, # >VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:  >  >[V7.3-1 to V7.3-2]  >...K >>My experience was two install failures resulting in OS restores until the L >>PCSI installation finally complained about the SSH EAK resulting in abort-L >>ing the third attempt to install V7.3-2 to PRODUCT REMOVE the SSH EAK kit.% >>Fourth time 'round was a charm. ...  > ' >I appologize for the problems you had.  > G >If you care to share some details, I'd like to know how/why ther first  >two upgrade attempts failed.   F I would too... Just a PCSI failure occurred and proceeding might causeE more problems.  Second time around, I don't recall if I tried to pro- 8 ceed or not...  I remember the second restore though. :(    F >I'd also like to know the problem reported with SSH EAK, and why this( >didn't show up until the third attempt.  F I didn't write the PCSI...  I was kind of hoping you'd be able to tell me! ;)   --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.  --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:32:17 +1300 1 From: Tux Wonder-Dog <wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> 8 Subject: Re: A Christmas gift to all haters of Micro$hit4 Message-ID: <NEvMb.16939$ws.1985328@news02.tsnz.net>   JF Mezei wrote:    > Keith Brown wrote:2 >> The IT industry is shifting away from Microsoft, >> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=13350 >  > J > Many thanks. This is great news. Unfortunatly, the article is more of anG > opinion than a fact (even though I happen to agree with the opinion).  > J > I think that Microsoft's decay isn't going to be as fast as one would be! > led to believe in that article.  > K > Where I think that writer got it right is that a lot of people are now in J > a wait-and-see attitude. The minute hard numbers start to show a decline@ > in Microsoft's market share, Gartbner types will start issuingK > recommendations to jump ship, predicting the sinking of Microsoft. (geez, & > that sounds familiar, doesn't it ?). > K > There is one thing I will grant Bill Gates: he revolutionlised pricing of J > software. DEC's $6000 C compiler couldn't even come close to Microsoft'sG > $600 compiler. It is ironic that now that it has a monopoly, it isn't L > working to lower prices anymore and that will be its undoing, just like it > was the undoing of Digital.  > J > Microsoft needs to drop its "luxury" and become a lean and mean low costI > producer. The problem is that its hands are now too tied to Wall Street J > and investors who expect return on investment. It would be very hard forL > MS to convince Wall Street that dropping by half the price of Office wouldL > be a good thing if the net result would be less dividends (but a necessary* > evil for long term survival of company). > L > Another problem is ego. For Microsoft to start taking very visible actionsC > to compete against Linux, it would be tantamount to a very public K > admission that Microsoft is vulnerable. That would push more customers to H > jump ship. On the other hand, this would be a great ploy to get rid of > anti-trust issues. > L > For someone like Digital, lowering prices would have given the possibilityG > of higher volumes because Digital never took advantage of the booming L > markets. But Microsoft has garnered the market which really won't gow much6 > in the western world because penetration has peaked. > D > So for Microsoft, the entry of a competitor means reduced volumes.H > Reducing prices will only reduce the losses in volumes. It won't cause; > increased volumes. That is tought to sell to Wall Street.  > G > I have a feelling that if MS were still in the hands of Gates with no H > obligatiosn to its employees and Wall Street, Gates would not have anyL > problems lowering his prices. But his obligations towards shareholders and > employees tie his hands down.  > K > Microsoft's fall could be very dramatic. In the early 1990s, MS relied in F > growth in customer base, with customers switching to MS desktops and( > migration from CC mail to MS mail etc. > I > Then, between 1996 and 2000, Microsoft relied on computer replacements. I > First because of Windows 95 requiring bigger machines, and then because  > Win95 wasn't Y2K compliant.  > L > But now, there are no artificial creators of demand and the only sales areK > really for regular replacement of computers due to age. Licensing changes H > for XP show that MS is aware of this change and that it needs to start: > generating recurring revenus from customers for support. > 8 > The arrival of Linux comes are a very bad time for MS. > J > Whgat I find fascinating is that the natural replacement for desktops isI > never really mentioned: Apple. Perhaps because Apple isn't cheaper than I > MS. I think Apple would have enournous potential if it started to price  > itself under Microsoft.   J I'm just reading Bill Gates own "The Road Ahead", and he, the GatesmeisterK himself, opines that IBM lost its early lead in the PC industry when it did F _two_ things - it tried to lock end-users into IBM's Own Hardware, theI PS/2, and it tried to upgrade them lockstep to its _new_ _and_ _improved_  Operating System OS/2.  J Now look at Microsoft, its proposed Digital Rights Management hardware and< its proposed marching of end-users, lockstep, into Longhorn.  J I can see it; Bill Gates'll see it in due time; maybe even Steve Ballmer -E but by then it'll be far too late to do anything meaningful about it.   8 And it couldn't happen to a nicer set of guys.  How sad.  
 Wesley Parish  --  G "Good, late in to more rewarding well."  "Well, you tonight.  And I was K lookintelligent woman of Ming home.  I trust you with a tender silence."  I C get a word into my hands, a different and unbelike, probably - 'she = fortunate fat woman', wrong word.  I think to me, I justupid. G Let not emacs meta-X dissociate-press write your romantic dialogs...!!!    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:36:52 +1300 1 From: Tux Wonder-Dog <wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> 8 Subject: Re: A Christmas gift to all haters of Micro$hit4 Message-ID: <3JvMb.16940$ws.1985572@news02.tsnz.net>   JF Mezei wrote:    > Dirk Munk wrote:I >> managers will buy. Combine that with the antipathy or downright hatred I >> against M$ (45% of European companies would like to kick M$ out of the L >> door rather today then tomorrow), and it becomes clear that it was just a1 >> matter of time before this trend would set in.  > L > I think it is still too early to celebrate. Microsoft has a lot of rabbits > it could pull out of its hat.   K While said hat sits firmly on its head, and is furthermore, widely rumoured " to be completely empty, even then?  J They hired Dave Cutler; VMS is so fascinating that even I, an acknowledgedK Linux-user, want to test it out; Windows NT is a somewhat pathological OS.  E And Windows XP is terminally cute - you don't need to be Garfield ...   
 Wesley Parish  > K > The day to celebrate is when HP starts to make advertisements that show a F > lower price for Linux equipped PCs compared to Windows equipped PCs.   --  G "Good, late in to more rewarding well."  "Well, you tonight.  And I was K lookintelligent woman of Ming home.  I trust you with a tender silence."  I C get a word into my hands, a different and unbelike, probably - 'she = fortunate fat woman', wrong word.  I think to me, I justupid. G Let not emacs meta-X dissociate-press write your romantic dialogs...!!!    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 08:34:32 -0800* From: denny.rich@swagelok.com (Denny Rich)6 Subject: Re: Alpha macro (64) and the OTS$... routines< Message-ID: <d28306e.0401120834.3a3be0b8@posting.google.com>   Don,  C Thanks very much for your reply. I've passed your message on to the B programmers who found this and also to the project manager for theE conversion effort. The programmers are implementing the fix, and will B likely be using both the /convert=leading, and the /check=decimal.  D As we understand it, check=decimal will cause a run-time error if itE encounters spaces in what should be numeric data.  We think this will D "flush out" the problems, and allow more defensive coding to pervadeD the application over time. The intent is to cause the application toC blow up, rather than to allow possibly incorrect data to be written % with no mention that it is "unusual".   A That said, I would like to ask if there are any other features of D conversion that we should be on the lookout for? I would go back and> research the old release notes, but we simply don't have them.  C Could there be a list of switches that had to be introduced, as was 4 "/convert=leading", to ease the conversion to Alpha?  6 Thanks again for your time in preparing your response.   Regards,  
 Denny Rich  E PS: the project manager for this conversion is extremely grateful for D the light you shed on this issue! I actually heard him breathe a few7 times on Friday afternoon after I gave him the message. J --------------------------------------------------------------------------  l don.braffitt@hp.com (Don Braffitt) wrote in message news:<e5c311b8.0401090401.f62b379@posting.google.com>...p > denny.rich@swagelok.com (Denny Rich) wrote in message news:<d28306e.0401081303.28e963d4@posting.google.com>...B > > We are researching a COBOL problem. There is a difference in aF > > comparision (IF statement) between a program compiled on VAX COBOL   [ .....S N I P..... ]    > " > > Grateful for any assistance... > > 	 > > denny  >  > Denny, > % > There are two issues involved here.  > F > On Alpha and I64, various routines in LIBOTS2 were written to handleG > decimal numeric and string operations where VAX instructions had been D > used but no equivalent or similar instructions were present in the   [ .....S N I P..... ]    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:45:58 +0000 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>H Subject: Re: ANN: FreeeTDS 0.62 Sybase & MS SQL client software released4 Message-ID: <btubv7$lnv$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   Craig A. Berry wrote:   G > FreeTDS is a collection of free, open source libraries and utilities  J > for communicating with databases that use the TDS (Tabular Data Stream) H > protocol.  This includes Microsoft SQL Server and all Sybase database J > products.  Version 0.62 is the first to include VMS build support.  See   E I've got 0.61, which builds on VMS, courtesy of the kit you provided   (last updated February '03).G It seems to work ok (we just use tds directly from VMS applications to  I talk to an MS SQL db). I don't see very much new in 0.62 for my purposes  G (although the tip about /names=as_is being necessary only for unixodbc  - is good - I'd quite like to get rid of that).    Chris    > the full announcement at: ' > http://freshmeat.net/releases/147641/  > A > For download links and other information, see the home page at:  >  > http://www.freetds.org > @ > Before building on VMS, I strongly recommend reading the file G > [.vms]README.vms from the distribution, which is also available here:  > K > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/freetds/freetds/vms/READ  > ME.vms?rev=1.2   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:00:44 +0000 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>H Subject: Re: Anyone connected a SANswitch 2/8EL console to DECserver 700' Message-ID: <bttr86$qtg$1@lore.csc.com>    Martin Platts wrote: >  > bump!   C No idea, but you do know that a DS700 is probably (depending on the  model you're using) RS423.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:56:08 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) D Subject: Re: Brazil == was: Experienced OpenVMS Admin/Guru available2 Message-ID: <cAyMb.12096$J5.5680@news.cpqcorp.net>  > In article <f30679fb.0401101302.72ce1175@posting.google.com>, 0 fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) writes:   ..8 >By the way.. Brazil is fingerprinting americans because4 >USA are fingerprinting brazilians ! What mess ! :-) ..  C Brazil has a long standing tradition of enforcing the same entrance K requirements for USA visitors to Brazil that the USA requires of Brazilian   visitors to the USA.   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 10:04:29 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)D Subject: Re: Brazil == was: Experienced OpenVMS Admin/Guru available= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0401121004.44399cdf@posting.google.com>   m hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) wrote in message news:<cAyMb.12096$J5.5680@news.cpqcorp.net>... @ > In article <f30679fb.0401101302.72ce1175@posting.google.com>, 2 > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) writes: >  > ..: > >By the way.. Brazil is fingerprinting americans because6 > >USA are fingerprinting brazilians ! What mess ! :-) > .. > E > Brazil has a long standing tradition of enforcing the same entrance M > requirements for USA visitors to Brazil that the USA requires of Brazilian   > visitors to the USA.  2 Yes I know this, but the resume this situation is:   USA: Do you first ?  BR: No, do you first ?   USA: Do you first ?  BR: No, do you first ?     :-)    Regards    FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:39:11 +0100  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>% Subject: Re: Can't boot. Please help. 2 Message-ID: <bttg3k$hqs$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Christoph Gartmann wrote: W > In article <r2hMb.8595$wf1.7724@edtnps89>, Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes:  > D >>I seem to have offended the gods, somewhat.  I rebooted my system E >>yesterday and received a blank screen for my efforts.  No hardware  I >>detection messages, nothing; only the little blurb about BIOS versions  I >>appears before the screen goes black.  This was after several attempts  F >>to resolve a strange network problem by rebooting.  Anyone have any 1 >>clues on how to revive or diagnose the problem?  >  > O > I am not quite sure at what stage your system stops. After a power-on you see H > some messages about BIOS versions (white text, black background), soonH > thereafter the background is blue and you see some results of hardwareL > diagnostics such as "F..E..D.." until you come to the boot prompt ">>>" orL > the systems starts booting directly. Are you telling us that you don't see9 > the blue background, only the very first BIOS messages?  > 
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmann  > P Those Bios versions can be reports from the graphics card. Maybe the console is  set to serial ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:21:23 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> * Subject: Re: Could OpenVMS-Athlon ever be?2 Message-ID: <D3yMb.12093$j5.9027@news.cpqcorp.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:3FFF0C85.99FDFBFB@istop.com... # > re: lack of registers in the 8086  > J > I can understand that in the early days of the 8086, there was no way to put a K > serious OS on that chip. But when Intel transformed the toy into a 32 bit  CPU L > which no longer required those damned segment registers etc, didn't it add > more registers ? > K > And when AMD made the 64 bit version of the 8086, if it was eying serious  OSC > such as Solaris, Linux and possibly some proprietary ones such as J > VMS/HP-UX/AIX, wouldn't they have put in sufficient numbers of registers to! > make such serious OS possible ?   L Remember, UNIX is written in C - so the number of registers and usage reallyK only effects performance.  The code written in Macro-32 "thinks" that it is G talking to actual hardware resources.  I think John would agree that it H isn't impossible to re-write Macro-32 for less registers -- but it makesH things harder... the IA64 version is confusing enough now that registersE don't map 1:1 as they could for Alpha.  Macro-32 wasn't designed as a H high-level compiler language - but as the VAX assembler.  It's just beenH forced into the role of a compiled language to make porting VMS feasible+ within time/cost/compatability constraints.   L AMD's goal was to extend the x86 (which you can run UNIX/Linux on just fine)L to allow 64-bits - so they didn't have a blank sheet of paper to start from.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 08:08:27 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) * Subject: Re: Could OpenVMS-Athlon ever be?3 Message-ID: <Ru5k+c1oWYiF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3FFF0C85.99FDFBFB@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:# > re: lack of registers in the 8086  > P > I can understand that in the early days of the 8086, there was no way to put aO > serious OS on that chip. But when Intel transformed the toy into a 32 bit CPU L > which no longer required those damned segment registers etc, didn't it add > more registers ?  G    The registers that were added were the segment registers.  The other H    registers just got wider and gained a confusion of overlapping names.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:38:31 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>* Subject: Re: Could OpenVMS-Athlon ever be?2 Message-ID: <HjyMb.12094$%5.5191@news.cpqcorp.net>   Dave Weatherall wrote:  A > Thanks again John. I must find the time to read up on GEM. Any   > pointers?  >   > There was an article in a Digital Technical Journal years ago.  B http://research.compaq.com/wrl/DECarchives/DTJ/DTJ808/DTJ808SC.TXT     --   John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:39:30 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: ds10l blowout, Message-ID: <40024122.9060800@tsoft-inc.com>   Jeff Morgan wrote:  	 > Easy...  >  >  - Remove the caseN >  - put the system next to the refrigerator and open the door to keep the EV6 > processor cool< >  - install a bigger IDE hard drive (whatever is supported) >  - plug in a cheap IDE cdrom9 >  - boot the VMS OS installation disk from the IDE cdrom  >  - install VMS >  - reboot with VMS@ >  - then mount and copy each of the 15 or so CDroms to separate& > subdirectories on the IDE hard drive >  - Shut down system  >  - remove the CDrom reader >  - put the case back on   >  - close the refrigerator door >  > Repeat when necessary... >  > : - D  > M > Seriously, if you are going to run with the case open for several hours, it M > might be a good idea to keep an eye on the heat. I don't have one yet, so I K > can't advise you on how hot this thing will get with the cover off. Being N > very low profile, there's probably some serious fan ducting going on inside.    L Depends where you live.  Right now, I could run it on the back porch, and I N seriously doubt there'd be any heat problems.  Below freezing and the wind is # blowing.  (Might be cold problems.)     K > Maybe drilling a hole in the case for the IDE and power connector for the  > CDrom might not be too bad.  > = > (I'm sure all the HP/CompaQ/DEC engineers just cringed! :-)  > M > It's a shame there are no USB ports available and a VMS supported USB CDrom N > reader. That would have reduced the real estate requirements. A USB external > CD would only run about $50.    N John mentioned IDE size imitations, but the entire consolidated distribution, Q documentation, VMS dist and doc, both VAX and Alpha are probably way under 20 GB.   M With one exception the largest drive I have on my systems is 2 GB.  Not sure  C what a hobbyist would do with hugh amounts of storage.  Am curious?      Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 09:10:42 +0100K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40)  Subject: Re: ds10l blowout! Message-ID: <M7bGmxcV9gwG@sinead>   : In article <40024122.9060800@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble  <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  [...] P > John mentioned IDE size imitations, but the entire consolidated distribution, M > documentation, VMS dist and doc, both VAX and Alpha are probably way under   >20 GB.  > O > With one exception the largest drive I have on my systems is 2 GB.  Not sure  E > what a hobbyist would do with hugh amounts of storage.  Am curious?   I If you make some digital (or scanned) photos, you need some storage space L especially with high megapixels digital camera  (2 or 3 Mb is now a standard6 size for a jpeg image, and 15 or 20 Mb for a RAW one).  M My hobby DS10 has 3 x 9 Gb internal SCSI2 drives plus one 18 Gb and one 36 Gb N SCSI3 external one. Plus 3 RZ28M in a pizza box (old drives, rarely used now).O I'll probably soon sawpp the 18 Gb for a 36 Gb. (I have 2 SCSI controllers, one  single and one dual channel).   N Recent (and big) drives are also generally faster than olders (at least if you don't take the biggest ones).   K Having at least the same data on two different drives eats also some space.    --O =============================================================================== N pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA)      ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 04:52:12 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: ds10l blowout) Message-ID: <40026E19.157BF39F@istop.com>    David Froble wrote: N > With one exception the largest drive I have on my systems is 2 GB.  Not sureE > what a hobbyist would do with hugh amounts of storage.  Am curious?   J man, 2 gigs is really not much. If you want to store the online bookreaderJ files, your software, and when you start to build packages such as kermit,I ghostscript, OSU, perl etc, you'll find that space geats eaten very fast.   K I built a 3D surface map of Australia so I could draw my bike trips over it N (in 3 d) and that consumed a lot of disk space to get first the raw data , andN then to process it and write out the huge DXF files which were then moved to aJ MAC to get imaged.  For one trip, the "line" consisted of about 40,000 rawG points, which went through sopftware to eliminate redundant points (for ! instance inside a straight line).   N Then, if you want to use the VMS box as a backup/repository for stuff on a mac> or wintel machine, you'll quickly start filling up your drive.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:44:28 +0000 (UTC) * From: Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi> Subject: Re: ds10l blowout, Message-ID: <btu1as$vl7$2@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>  2 Matt Finbow <matthew.finbow@btinternet.com> wrote:  = > One caution - there at at least three variants of the 39160   > KZPEA (HP) - Works (obviously) > Adaptec 39160 - Should work G > Compaq OEM 39160 - Doesnt work (at least the two I've got won't work)   J Thank you Matt! I've been wondering whats wrong with my 39160. It happens E to be Compaq model. Somehow I've believed that Compaq model should be I better or at least as good as plain Adaptec for DEC/Compaq-Alphas. Silly   me! J Now, what can I do. Throw the card to PC's :-( or is it possible to fix itC by reloading Adaptec bios or something?  Anyone could guess what's   different in Compaq model?     Osmo   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:26:50 -0500 0 From: "Jeff Morgan" <vmswiz@geonospamcities.com> Subject: Re: ds10l blowout- Message-ID: <btued0$e6lr$1@news3.infoave.net>   * It's easy to use up huge amounts of space.  H I have over 26,000 high resolution family photos online plus thumbnails. Almost 3GB of pictures.   J These are available to every pc in the house and family members can get toH it from the Internet over my DSL connection. They are served up by a DCLI script that runs under the OSU webserver (password protected). Photos are * categorized by date, family activity, etc.  2 Imagemagik creates the thumbnails for the catalog.  I Family members can also click a button to add notes to my photos. If they H are looking and think of an interesting story from some ancient picture,I then we capture it for posterity. Maybe my great great grandchildren will K find it interesting. I have quite a few family quicktime files (with sound) K taken with my new Olympus C750UZ. The new camera is 4 megapixels and all my 7 new pictures are double the size of the old 2MP camera.    Then I also have:   F           Grand total of 272 directories, 5859 files, 62719907 blocks.  H These are all MP3 files ripped from over 450 CDs I've collected over theK years. All the pc's (6!) in the house use Advanced Server to get to the MP3 J archives and can listen to any song they want. My kids both have playlistsF pointing to a read only file share on Pathworks. Each directory is one artist.   I Humans are destined to collect "stuff". VMS helps me collect two of mine.    : - D   (                                     Jeff    5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message & news:40024122.9060800@tsoft-inc.com...   > A > John mentioned IDE size imitations, but the entire consolidated 
 distribution, L > documentation, VMS dist and doc, both VAX and Alpha are probably way under 20 GB. > I > With one exception the largest drive I have on my systems is 2 GB.  Not  sureE > what a hobbyist would do with hugh amounts of storage.  Am curious?  >  >  > Dave >  > --  6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486  >    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 17:50:32 +0100K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40)  Subject: Re: ds10l blowout! Message-ID: <8$$aIsowQOHn@sinead>   . In article <btued0$e6lr$1@news3.infoave.net>, 2 "Jeff Morgan" <vmswiz@geonospamcities.com> writes:, > It's easy to use up huge amounts of space. > J > I have over 26,000 high resolution family photos online plus thumbnails. > Almost 3GB of pictures.  > L > These are available to every pc in the house and family members can get toJ > it from the Internet over my DSL connection. They are served up by a DCLK > script that runs under the OSU webserver (password protected). Photos are , > categorized by date, family activity, etc. > 4 > Imagemagik creates the thumbnails for the catalog.  N I only have about 8.000 (original from digicams) high resolution photos (aboutL 3.5 Gigabytes of storage). Only a small part (1000 ?) are served on my home O LAN via OSU Web server via clickable indexes made by gifmap (perl script using  
 ImageMagick).   L All image processing is made under OpenVMS with Imagemagick and XV. However,N with Fuji digicams you can print directly from original images (if the framingM is OK) and the result is nice in A4 (especially with the 6900 using 6 Mpixels G format). You just need to play a bit with the saturation into the print  driver (under Windows).   M We currently have 4 digicams (fujis 2700, 4700, 6900 and now a new F700) plus P some Nikon film SLRs and a coolscan II slide scanner (a bit obsolete now, 16 bitL scanners are under 600 $ (Minolta)). 'was about to buy the Sony F828 but the8 reviews are not very good actually. I'll wait a bit ...   H Far less MP3s however (made under VMS with Lame) but a lot of midis (no N storage problem with midis :-) with a few I lade with rosegarden score editor.  O BTW, I use now a Viewsonic 19" MVA TFT LCD screen on my DS10 (Elsa Gloria card)sL and the display quality is fantastic in 1280x1024 !! Also nice to view DVD's" via a PC (2 VGA and 1 DVI inputs).   Patricke --O ===============================================================================aN pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA)      ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:46:55 -0500 < From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>% Subject: Re: end-search next sentenceQ9 Message-ID: <btumii$b7hvn$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>    tutor_nospam_@cfl.rr.com wrote:c > thanks for the spam paul.x! >     when you go to the library,n >     do you become afraid?a# >     because the books have spines  >    and you DON'T > , >    ps: thank you for assuming i am a "SIR"& >    add sexist pig to your resume.... >m >> Sir,s >>; >> You are seriously in need of learning how this newsgroups works.= >> It's about give and take, but you seem to be either a puret taker or- >> have a sever lack of communication skills.  >>; >> _I_ know that you are talking COBOL, but I'm not so suree that anyonec: >> else does. Please make sure in future that you at least
 tell folks= >> what language you are using, and also which version of VMSu and the  >> compiler.  < Oh, what have I done? I must have pissed off a real Internet genius! LOL   = Time for some more education, but if you keep asking for helpo1 like this I'm going to have to start billing you.r  / Today's Lesson: How to Annoy someone on NewsNet   = If you are going to try to annoy someone through the net then" you should make sure;y  5 A. You do not sign the person up for confirmed opt-in-: newsletters, all Paul and I have to do is ignore the first message and they stop.5 B. Do not use the same IP address you used to post to0= comp.os.vms, it is very easy to see that the newsletters were1= requested from 67.8.192.225, which is the same IP you used to3: post your messages. Unfortunately I thought I was going to: have some fun tracking down who I had annoyed to the point; that they would do something so childish, but rank amateurs  like you make it too easy.> C. Do not try to annoy people who know a lot more than you do,: which in your case means that you should not annoy anyone.  ; What lesson do you want tomorrow? Remember, I start billinge after this one.    -- t Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.A Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXe www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 07:32:43 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)5 Subject: Re: Experienced OpenVMS Admin/Guru availablea= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0401120732.4a369d2b@posting.google.com>F  u "Gary Cooper" <gwcooper@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<ef%Lb.2764$i4.241@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>...k > Kerry,M > Good to hear from you. We met when you paid a visit to the U.S. Postal siter1 > in Raleigh, NC. I'll send Chip Webb your hello.s > 4 > "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in messageN > news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB2379DB@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net... >  > >A: > > Look to South America when the Free Trade Area comes !? > > By the way.. Brazil is fingerprinting americans because USAeA > > are fingerprinting brazilians ! What mess ! :-) This FTA willo> > > not happen soon because USA are blocking a lot of products? > > from S.A. countries ! But we still importing USA technologyn( > > ... we dont produce technology ! :-/ > >3> > > I dont want to go to USA... Canada (their yard) looks like > > more atractive ! :-) > >B > >9 >  > Fabio, >  > Re: US vs Canada ..n > H > Actually, may be moot point soon as we have secret plan to make the USB > our 11th province .. Only real problem as I recall was trying toC > convince Texans they need to become bilingual and learn French ..n >  > :-)   " Do the Texans speak English ?  :-); My God !!!  I remember when a geologist from Texaco came to A my old company to donwload a lot of Gis files ! What I understood ! from her was was " use tape" :-) w  < I think like the people of Quebec there is/was some kind of  separatist movement in Texas ! e   Fabioc  i > Kerry Main > Senior Consultanto > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660p > Fax: 613-591-4477  > Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcomu- > (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)r   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 12:21:19 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)u5 Subject: Re: Experienced OpenVMS Admin/Guru available03 Message-ID: <hzzGhLYZO5EQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   p In article <ef%Lb.2764$i4.241@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "Gary Cooper" <gwcooper@mindspring.com> writes: > H > Actually, may be moot point soon as we have secret plan to make the USB > our 11th province .. Only real problem as I recall was trying toC > convince Texans they need to become bilingual and learn French ..s  F    You'ld have better luck trying to convince the Quebec'ers they need*    to become trilingual and learn Texican.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:51:43 +0000 (UTC)a* From: Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi>= Subject: Re: Hints to upgrade DS10L ? (Was Re: ds10l blowout)., Message-ID: <bttqnf$vl7$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>  - David D Miller <ddmiller@raytheon.com> wrote:w    J > Have you tried to get memory from www.kahlon.com?  I've had good luck in > the past.l  E No. Looks like wide selection, but their Generic modules list doesn't E contain any 200-pin SDRAM. I'm trying to find commodity 200-pin SDRAMtG (not the SO DIMM though) because specifig design for one computer modelr at least doubles the price.l   Osmo   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:29:29 +0000.O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>  Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting0 Message-ID: <btub0a$pil$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>  
 Gunner wrote:vJ > As a RT-11, RSX M/M+, VMS, Tru64 specialist I can with certainty that HPI > advertises that they will sell Tru64 until 2004 and support it until at 
 > least 2011.  > 7 Ohh dear. The Tru64 extensions to HP-UX have apparently 6 slipped to 2005 and HP are apparently stopping selling Tru64 in 2004.  ; That or you will be able to get Tru64 for a bit longer thane that.n   regards  Andrew Harrison     5 > There is considerable Tru64 expertise in the field.W2 > The first commercial release of VMS will be V8.24 > A VMS Cluster of Alphas and Itaniums is supported.I > A VMS Cluster of Vaxen, Alphas and Itaniums will work but is not (yet?)  > supported.M > RSX 11M+ was a SMP operating system. The PDP 11/74 MP could have as many aseA > 4 processors.  David Cutler used at least one to write VMS V0.xo, > VMS and Unix have the same parent Multics. > 7 > I missed RSTS/E but I did work with Mumps-11 and DSM.u >  > gr >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 12:17:10 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting3 Message-ID: <JvWXGqWzq+zG@eisner.encompasserve.org>o   In article <btub0a$pil$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:9 > Ohh dear. The Tru64 extensions to HP-UX have apparentlyu8 > slipped to 2005 and HP are apparently stopping selling > Tru64 in 2004.  <    Hardly matters, since we're using VMS.  This ain't c.o.t.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 08:26:10 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) < Subject: Re: Non-WS Process Quotas not in Performance Manual3 Message-ID: <yjc7Fhc0wQQf@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  c In article <uuMGLBEDDCm8@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:t > A > Process quotas control access to system resources by individualmA > processes.  If everybody had infinite quotas, one piggy programo* > could bring the machine to a standstill.      Hm.  Sounds like UNIX.r   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:36:11 -0500 (EST) + From: Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu>n< Subject: Re: Non-WS Process Quotas not in Performance ManualH Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58-036.0401121021250.2959@unix44.andrew.cmu.edu>  < what kind of unix are you talking about? maybe 20 years ago.M you know, BSD had process resource quotas back in 1983. A lot of the featuresrG VMS has today, including some of the downright defining characteristicsp; (clusters anyone?) were not present in VMS in 1983, either.r   Isildure    ' On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Bob Koehler wrote:l  e > In article <uuMGLBEDDCm8@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:B > >aC > > Process quotas control access to system resources by individualhC > > processes.  If everybody had infinite quotas, one piggy programn, > > could bring the machine to a standstill. >r >    Hm.  Sounds like UNIX.d >  >r   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 09:53:53 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)< Subject: Re: Non-WS Process Quotas not in Performance Manual= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0401120953.442bd1e3@posting.google.com>   h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<ZieGkQevuisL@eisner.encompasserve.org>...p > In article <b096a4ee.0401101231.438306ba@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:l > > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<uuMGLBEDDCm8@eisner.encompasserve.org>... >  dD > >> Process quotas control access to system resources by individualD > >> processes.  If everybody had infinite quotas, one piggy program- > >> could bring the machine to a standstill.s  8 Do you mean standstill as in crash? or just really slow?  B > > So bringing the machine to a standstill would be a performanceI > > problem. Hence, process quotas should be discussed in the performancetH > > manual. And they're not except for wsdefault, wsquota, and wsextent. > D > Errant programming with the CMKRNL privilege could certainly bringD > the machine to a HALT.  Therefore the VMS Security Handbook should/ > be incorporated into the performance manual ?>  3 OK, this is a security problem or a crash problem.    H > Writing an unterminated loop could soak up CPU cycles to the detrimentG > of other processes.  Therefore the C Language Reference Manual shouldi/ > be incorporated into the performance manual ?d  E This could be found by using the Performance Manual. You could follow D the manual to find the offending process, then see what that process+ is doing. The C manual would not be needed.s   Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 12:13:33 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)P< Subject: Re: Non-WS Process Quotas not in Performance Manual3 Message-ID: <rxCr5k1mGUlG@eisner.encompasserve.org>q  v In article <Pine.LNX.4.58-036.0401121021250.2959@unix44.andrew.cmu.edu>, Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> writes: > > > what kind of unix are you talking about? maybe 20 years ago.O > you know, BSD had process resource quotas back in 1983. A lot of the featureshI > VMS has today, including some of the downright defining characteristics = > (clusters anyone?) were not present in VMS in 1983, either.   E    Pre-process quotas were implemented in VMS 0.x prior to first shipr    (1978?).h  @    BSD had per-user disk quotas and per-system limits, and a fewC    per-process limits, like heap and stack sizes.  There's a lot ofl@    other resources a process can hog that are not per-process or?    per-user limited.  Ever have a runaway process fork too manypF    children?  Sure hoses up the system when the process list is full, 7    and you can't start so much as a 'ps' to analyze it.=   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:39:43 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>WY Subject: Re: Oracle Rdb on GS1280 with 7.3-2 exceeds 1 million transactions per minute ush0 Message-ID: <btuf3v$r3e$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Keith Parris wrote:uG > HP OpenVMS operating system and Oracle Rdb software break performancee	 > barrieri > by Marc Courchesne >=20  < Let me see your stated possition on benchmarks is that TPC-C- is the one to do to measure OLTP performance.w  @ So why have you just published a no name OLTP benchmark "result" for OpenVMS and RDB.  ; Why go to the effort of benchmarking a large system running ; RDB using a benchmark that might or might not by quite likes& TPC-C when you could have done TPC-C ?  ; Of course if it is similar to TPC-C then 1 million TPM fromo9 a 32 way Alpha server would be very embarassing even more , embarassing would be if it was TPC-C itself.  > As it is you have a test that might as well have been measured  in chocolate teapots per minute.   Regards- Andrew Harrison-H > Recent performance tests of Oracle=AE Rdb version 7.1.2 and HP OpenVMS? > version 7.3-2 running on an HP AlphaServer GS1280 system haves@ > demonstrated breakthrough transaction performance for a singleF > 32-processor symmetric multiprocessing (SMP) machine configured withE > 256 gigabytes of main memory. The AlphaServer system, together withpA > Oracle Rdb software, achieved sustained throughput of 1,010,160rD > database transactions per minute. In this test, five tables with aF > total of one billion (109) rows were created and their contents wereH > mapped in main memory using Oracle Rdb's Row Cache feature. This test,B > designed to explore the limits of the Row Cache feature, was notH > highly optimized for performance, but additional performance tuning is= > likely to result in even higher transaction rates. This new0D > implementation of Row Cache, first available in Oracle Rdb versionB > 7.1.2, allows customers to fully utilize all the physical memoryG > present in the largest AlphaServer systems for caching databases that G > retain complete transaction integrity and full recovery from process, E > disk, or system failure. The OpenVMS version 7.3-2 operating systemmH > provides a number of key features for improved scheduling and resourceC > utilization that enhance scaling on systems with many processors.r2 > These features were fully utilized in this test. >=20- > For more information, visit HP's site at=20y7 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/oracle/index.htmlm1 > and Oracle's site at http://www.oracle.com/rdb/n > ---vB > Note: This test does not reflect tpm-C or tpm-H results. --Keith   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:13:31 +0100e* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>) Subject: Re: Rally VAX to Alpha Migrationa0 Message-ID: <40028F6B.3EE68F33@sture.homeip.net>   Main, Kerry wrote: > G > > Yeow.  If I were that customer, I might now be feeling a bit like ItF > > bought /too much/ replacement hardware.  80% is a hell of a lot of > head room. > >  > F > >> But from a Disaster Tolerance point of view there is (at least inD > >> theory) enough CPU power there to run the lot on only one node. > F > Paul, coincidentally, that was one of the original concepts for thisI > cluster i.e. a three node cluster with a quorum disk set to 2 votes andDG > each system=1 vote so that 2 nodes could be down and the applicationsr > would still be available., >   2 Yes, I guessed it might be something like that :-)   -- e
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:32:43 +0000SO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>15 Subject: Re: Slightly OT: Code Red on the rise again?.0 Message-ID: <btub6b$pns$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:s > In article <btsj7t$b10sv$1@ID-209632.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Martin P.J. Zinser" <zinser@zinser.no-ip.info> writes:i >  > _Slightly_ ? > ' > VMS systems should be totally immune.:  6 Yes but on systems that are immune you still get loads# of emails cluttering up your inbox.l  4 Even more annoying at the client I am working for is7 the fact that their SPAM/Virus filters on their systemsf3 send a "This was a virus, we have removed the virusa* email every time I get a virus sent to me.   Regardsa Andrew HarrisonP   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:19:59 +0000pO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> I Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems20 Message-ID: <btuaef$p9t$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Chris Casey wrote:M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>-J > wrote in message news:btk2br$a43> Unfortunately its a pointless piece of > research because OpenVMS > C >>security advisories do not get reliably reported to CERT, BugtraqtA >>etc so counting the ones that do only catches the excpetions ton >>the rule.. >>@ >>You know this, I know this, its well documented so why did you= >>bother posting a reference to the The Registers article itss4 >>not very responsible behaviour on your part is it. >>	 >>Regardso >>Andrew Harrisone >> >  > F > Aw Andrew, change your tune won't you. You trot out the same line toN > everything. I personally don't care anymore whether your position on CERT isK > true or not because you have belaboured it so much as to make it useless.  >   4 Look when OpenVMS BS merchants stop trotting out the3 OpenVMS is so secure look how few CERTS it gets lie:< and it is a huge and proven lie then I will stop responding.  = If you don't want a discussion about CERT then try persuading.) the OpenVMS CERT trolls to stop trolling.n    M > Unless you have some evidence that says that other operating systems are as H > secure as VMS then stop attacking anyone who says that VMS is the most > secure system. >  >   < If you can find any reference in my postings to the relative9 security of OpenVMS vs any other OS either for or against = then you are welcome to ask me to provide evidence to support 
 those claims.o  8 But then I havn't suggested that OpenVMS is more or less9 secure than any other OS so you don't get to play. I have < however claimed that OpenVMS isn't as secure as people think4 it is and proved the claim on a number of occasions.   Regardsw Andrew Harrisonb   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:20:04 +0000lO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>pI Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemsy0 Message-ID: <btuael$p9t$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Keith Parris wrote:  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<btk2br$a43$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...a > A >>Unfortunately its a pointless piece of research because OpenVMS2C >>security advisories do not get reliably reported to CERT, BugtraquA >>etc so counting the ones that do only catches the excpetions toj >>the rule.p >  > G > You're trying to convince us that because you claim CERT, etc. report0G > counts are not accurate, therefore the actual (unknown to you) number A > of VMS security problems discovered must be large (or, for your B > purposes, at least larger than the reported number for Solaris). >   @ I don't claim CERT report counts are not accurate, I have provedB that CERT counts are not accurate and that OpenVMS CERT advisories are also not accurate.  < There is also absolutely no doubt that the number of OpenVMS4 vunerabilites is higher than the OpenVMS CERT count.  ; However I have made no claims whatsoever about the relativef< number of security issues discovered for OpenVMS vs Solaris.  < In fact I would go as far as saying that Solaris is bound to; have more advisories for it than OpenVMS because its source : is easy to get hold of for scrutiny and because Solaris is# much more widely used than OpenVMS.s    G > In the general computing world, there are some basic assumptions thats2 > just don't apply to VMS (and I'll show you why):E > 1) A security bug won't be fixed (or at least not fixed in a timely B > fashion) unless the vendor is publicly shamed or threatened by a? > public report. Vendors can't be trusted to act in users' best $ > interests with regard to security.5 > 2) Most security bugs are found by users or hackerstF > 3) Operating systems are inherently insecure; the only way to secure0 > them is to apply patches as problems are found, > 4) Security through obscurity is worthless >  > I'll address each of these:-E > 1) OpenVMS Engineering has been very quick and spared no expense tojH > develop and distribute security patches quickly whenever security bugs> > have been found.  Although it didn't happen very often, I'veG > experienced receiving a shipment unbidden with a security update thattH > I was advised to install immediately.  I can't recall anyone reportingD > a case where a security bug was reported and the vendor of VMS wasH > unresponsive or even slow in responding.  It's always been apparent to> > customers that with VMS, the vendor always acted quickly and: > responsibly with respect to any and all security issues.  ; So explain the POP security hole if you can and the OpenVMS 5 engineering response to it in the light of your above 
 statement.  C In addition you refer to CERT and in the case of CERT your commentscB are demonstrably untrue. For some reason HP seem to be following a? strategy of responding to CERT advisories with a general we areJ@ investigating and will keep you posted (if they respond at all).  H > 2) Although some VMS security vulnerabilities have been discovered andF > reported by users, most are discovered by internal testing, internalH > code reviews, access to VMS source listings by white-hat experts, etc.E >  Even Kevin Mitnick publicly admitted the only way he got access to:A > VMS systems was by getting a password using social engineering.:  C It wasn't just OpenVMS that he used social engineering to hack thisr" was has prefered method of attack.    H > 4) There are significant real-world practical advantages to not havingF > details of all security vulnerabilities published, and in not havingH > source-code freely available. Without the need to goad the vendor intoD > taking action, there is little benefit for publishing details of a? > vulnerability.  Publishing details of a vulnerability that issC > discovered internally or by white-hat experts and thus unknown tosB > hackers would be foolish, and would put customers at significantD > additional risk.  And when source code is not readily available toH > everyone, black hats find it much more difficult and time-consuming toH > determine how a system works internally and the best avenues to attack@ > a system.  With so much information available and with so manyF > vulnerabilities in Windows and Linux and UNIX systems, where are theE > hackers going to spend their time?  Not on VMS.  If you look on the D > Web for information on how to hack VMS, you'll come up very short.  > Right so in essence what you are saying is that OpenVMS may orC may not be as secure/insecure as any other OS but who knows becausee# no one is interested in hacking it.   F And if you are an OpenVMS BS merchant then there is one huge advantageA to not publishing security vunerabilites, you get to BS about how > relatively secure OpenVMS is based on published vunerabilites.  H > I know of OpenVMS systems set up out-of-the-box and connected directlyF > to the Internet without a firewall, and yet remain unhacked.  Why is > that, one might ask? >   A > Real-world experience and practice don't bear out your claim ofb& > numerous vulnerabilities in OpenVMS.  B I never made that claim perhaps a better understanding of what youB are responsing to would have helped your case. As it is you appear  to have failed rather miserably.   Regards  Andrew Harrison4   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 12:16:25 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)lI Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems 3 Message-ID: <BP$IwiCr9efG@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <btuael$p9t$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > > > In fact I would go as far as saying that Solaris is bound to= > have more advisories for it than OpenVMS because its sourcen< > is easy to get hold of for scrutiny and because Solaris is% > much more widely used than OpenVMS.w  >    ROTFLOL.  Back in the 80's, if you had a computer need, you?    went out and bought a VAX.  VMS was the easiest thing to get C    a hold of.  It gots lots of scrutiny.  It was often connected togB    world-wide networks.  I wasn't full of security holes then, andG    it's not now.  Solaris has always been, but gradually gotten better.r   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 05:29:06 -0800( From: robison_m@crane.navy.mil (Zspider)$ Subject: VAX architecture and Charon= Message-ID: <2774a1e1.0401120529.4341f865@posting.google.com>l  @ We are gearing up for an attempt to replace a MicroVAX with a PC@ running the Charon VAX emulator software.  The VAX is in a test ? environment and it controls a lot of instrumentation, so we'll a* be running a PCI-to-QBus card in the PC.    ? We would like to come up to speed some on the VAX architecture.=< Can someone recommend any online documentation or good books: available through Amazon on VAX architecture and hardware?  = Also, any comments from people using the Charon software in a 4 hardware-intensive application would be appreciated.   Thank you, /   Michael Robison  812-854-4953" Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 08:54:10 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)w( Subject: Re: VAX architecture and Charon3 Message-ID: <0459Pjj692Cc@eisner.encompasserve.org>=  h In article <2774a1e1.0401120529.4341f865@posting.google.com>, robison_m@crane.navy.mil (Zspider) writes: > ? > Also, any comments from people using the Charon software in au6 > hardware-intensive application would be appreciated.  F    Every time I look at the Charon-VAX websites I see disclaimers that6    keep me from tyring it in this kind of application.      Let us know how you do.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:41:19 +0000 (UTC)o% From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase)o( Subject: Re: VAX architecture and Charon( Message-ID: <btuf6v$5tu$1@pcls4.std.com>  = In article <2774a1e1.0401120529.4341f865@posting.google.com>, ) Zspider <robison_m@crane.navy.mil> wrote:   B > We are gearing up for an attempt to replace a MicroVAX with a PCB > running the Charon VAX emulator software.  The VAX is in a test A > environment and it controls a lot of instrumentation, so we'll o, > be running a PCI-to-QBus card in the PC.    A I hope it doesn't involve anything that would be potentially lifeo7 threatening to someone if the emulator host PC crashes.f  A > We would like to come up to speed some on the VAX architecture.c> > Can someone recommend any online documentation or good books< > available through Amazon on VAX architecture and hardware?  D As a general guide to the architecture, there's the out of print 2ndC edition _VAX Architecture Reference Manual_ (ISBN 1-55558-057-2).   H You can sometimes find copies on eBay or at Abebooks.com.  You may also G be able to find relevant PDFs at the http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ sitel" for the QBus modules you're using.  F Beyond that, I've got hardware and a few dead tree docs which might be8 relevant.  I'm just up the road from you in Bloomington.   -brian.a --  F --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ ----->       IBM 1130 Club Motto:  "Computer People Are Happy People"   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 10:03:47 -0800' From: davis@xlnsystems.com (John Davis)a( Subject: Re: VAX architecture and Charon= Message-ID: <581e27da.0401121003.5d2e8bc0@posting.google.com>-   Bob,  D I would be happy to help you address any concerns you have regardingE CHARON-VAX for your environment.  We are working with Crane for their C implementation.  What kind of system, appication and environment dos	 you have?    Regards,
 John Davis
 XLNsystems   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:56:33 -0500 (EST)i+ From: Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu>b( Subject: Re: VAX architecture and CharonH Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58-036.0401121255120.5046@unix44.andrew.cmu.edu>  E the differences between the first edition VARM and second edition aremF not very numerous- mainly (as far as i know) changes to the subsettingF rules and such- and the stuff in the first edition is still 99% valid,: just in case it might be easier to locate a first edition.   Isildur     ' On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Brian Chase wrote:a  ? > In article <2774a1e1.0401120529.4341f865@posting.google.com>, + > Zspider <robison_m@crane.navy.mil> wrote:d > D > > We are gearing up for an attempt to replace a MicroVAX with a PCC > > running the Charon VAX emulator software.  The VAX is in a testhB > > environment and it controls a lot of instrumentation, so we'll, > > be running a PCI-to-QBus card in the PC. > C > I hope it doesn't involve anything that would be potentially life 9 > threatening to someone if the emulator host PC crashes.r >vC > > We would like to come up to speed some on the VAX architecture. @ > > Can someone recommend any online documentation or good books> > > available through Amazon on VAX architecture and hardware? > F > As a general guide to the architecture, there's the out of print 2ndC > edition _VAX Architecture Reference Manual_ (ISBN 1-55558-057-2).eI > You can sometimes find copies on eBay or at Abebooks.com.  You may alsotI > be able to find relevant PDFs at the http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ sites$ > for the QBus modules you're using. >yH > Beyond that, I've got hardware and a few dead tree docs which might be: > relevant.  I'm just up the road from you in Bloomington. > 	 > -brian.s > --H > --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----@ >       IBM 1130 Club Motto:  "Computer People Are Happy People" >F   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 12:30:32 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ( Subject: Re: VAX architecture and Charon3 Message-ID: <Xuz10gbsYnZR@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  g In article <581e27da.0401121003.5d2e8bc0@posting.google.com>, davis@xlnsystems.com (John Davis) writes:H > Bob, > F > I would be happy to help you address any concerns you have regardingG > CHARON-VAX for your environment.  We are working with Crane for their.E > implementation.  What kind of system, appication and environment dou > you have?l  G    Need to service interrupts from custom hardware via DR11-WA to user aL    level and back ever 100ms in about 10ms.  Missing interrupt is failure.  9    VMS 6.1, DEC C, VAX C, Fortran-77, VAX 4000 Model 500.U  =    Need to connect to custom hardware via DRQ3B.  25ms timingt?    requirement.  Task level I/O request flushes the FIFO every  E     second with side effect of cancelling and restarting all pendinggE    I/O to the DRQ3B.  VMS 5.5-2, Ada 85, DEC C, Fortran-77, VAX 4000 t
    Model 500.e   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 08:17:45 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)c  Subject: Re: VAXstation question3 Message-ID: <e5qWXoxatpMv@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  ] In article <dd8c4466.0401091818.31c5f296@posting.google.com>, cellctl@lycos.com (Ben) writes:cH > I have a VAXstation 4000 VLC which runs VMS 5.something quite nicely. H > I originally purchased it to learn VMS, but since I come from the UNIXG > side, am finding it quite difficult to adapt.  Straight (v7) UNIX wasoE > ported to the VAX quite early on, in the form of 32/v, which can be F > obtained from www.tuhs.org.  Anyone know if the VAXstations or other= > non-11/7xx VAXen are capable of running 32/v?  Thanks much!i  A    I don't know about 32/V, but that model will run Ultirx (DEC'soH    BSD UNIX), and probably one of the free BSD (NetBSD or FreeBSD) UNIX.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 08:24:29 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)f  Subject: Re: VAXstation question3 Message-ID: <L0BjOnPvYcA5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <dd8c4466.0401101613.6ada8383@posting.google.com>, cellctl@lycos.com (Ben) writes:m > D > I am somewhat attached to 32/v, as it's -the- offical Bell port ofD > straight UNIX to the VAX, and I'm doing this mostly for historicalB > interest.  If it can't be done, I'll probably look at one of the > older, still-part-AT&T BSD's.   :    That port is probably limitted to the 11/780 or 11/750.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 08:23:22 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)m  Subject: Re: VAXstation question3 Message-ID: <BjGbzaSnoD$g@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <dd8c4466.0401101159.53bd1567@posting.google.com>, cellctl@lycos.com (Ben) writes:" > F > the 11/780's and the VAXstations are architecturally identical, with= > the execption of more modern disk drives and such, correct?   F  No.  The entire I/O and data bus subsystems are completely different.   >  TheE > serial/console ports and SCSI interfaces would look the same to thek2 > software on either the 780 or VAXstation, right?  D  No.  In fact I've never seen a SCSI on an 11/780.  The serial portsE  on a VAXstation are on the mother board, on an 11/780 their probablye@  on the UNIBUS with a DZ-11 or something.  Software does have to6  deal with the different I/O adapters and controllers.  @  There's also a piece of software that looks at the hardware andE  determines what model-specific code (such as the I/O code) to load. tG  Older versions won't even recognize newer models.  The newest softwarei:  might not recognize models which are no longer supported.   >  Pardon my VAX& > ignorance, and thanks for your help! >  > -Ben   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 07:55:46 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o5 Subject: Re: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?o3 Message-ID: <b3VXStenyrHn@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3FFF0B4B.BF0AE31C@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote:J >>    Generally the OS is on one disk (aka the system disk) and the user'sK >>    directories are at the top level of other disks.  It's not unusual torJ >>    have a rooted directory to put the user's directories in, instead of >>    the top. > ) > Another consideration to make: backups.u > O > If you want to backup only user files, it then makes it much easier to have aiL > rooted directory or directories under which are all your user directories.C > This way, you can backup the rooted directory with a "..." in theoF > specification which will grab any and all user directories below it.  C   You can do that if they're at the top level, too, unless you haveu-    directories that you don't want to backup.A  H    Which begs the question:  what have you got on your disk that you can    do without?   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 08:00:10 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)f5 Subject: Re: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?p3 Message-ID: <XA5bLh8paQJQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  P In article <btn7d4$bfs$1@pcls4.std.com>, bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) writes: > K > So I can't have nodes named RED and BLUE in my cluster, both with locally'L > attached SCSI system drives labelled as "OVMSVAXSYS"?  Likewise, it soundsH > like I couldn't mount two OVMSDOC071 CDs on two different nodes of the8 > same cluster since there'd be a volume label conflict.  B    The mount for the second system disk of the same name will failB    during boot.  RMS wants to create locks (even on a single node)!    which contain the volume name.a  D    You can mount two volumes of the same name only if one of them is@    mounted as a process specific volume (not /system, /share, or
    /cluster).y   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 08:03:02 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 5 Subject: Re: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?o3 Message-ID: <GYmyHmdlshy9@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <btnh71$7tm$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:n > I > It's obvious if the disks are mounted on more than one node (no shared rK > bus required, just MSCP serving of the disks).  I don't know if a) it is iJ > supported and b) it will work to have the same volume label if the disk E > is directly connected to only one machine and only mounted on that n
 > machine.  G    It is not supported and will not work since the OP refered to system F    disks.  Boot mounts the system disk /system which requires a unique    volume label.  = >  By using the third argument to MOUNT you can probably get -J > around this without changing the volume label (I have never tried this, K > since I always have labels appropriate to the DISK$volume-label logicals a" > which will be created by MOUNT).  E    You cannot get around this by using the third argument to MOUNT.  lA    RMS uses the volume name, not the logical name, in lock names.    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 08:05:45 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s5 Subject: Re: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?g3 Message-ID: <+6xfZxoi$qkA@eisner.encompasserve.org>k  Z In article <00A2BAFC.A73AC58F.3@tachysoft.com>, Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> writes: > O > The file I have the most problems with is dcltables.  Sometimes this is foundsM > in sys$specific, sometimes in sys$common.  You have to check where it is ifR< > your product updates dcltables, because if you just updateQ > sys$system:dcltables, you will create a new one in specific instead of updatinge > the one in common.  K    Generally there is no need to have dcltables.exe in sys$specific (I knowtK    of one case where it was needed).  Putting dcltables.exe in sys$specificf7    is usually a sign of a faulty software installation.c  A    And if you put it in sys$system instead of sys$library, you'vei1    really goofed.  (I'll assume that was a typo).a    o   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 08:07:24 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)U5 Subject: Re: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?o3 Message-ID: <9OPRoWY0QifF@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  ] In article <40018E05.18E48097@sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:   I > Yes you could, as long as they are only mounted by the host system, butP > it can get confusing.p  -    Not if they are mounted /system or /share.g  I > You could have two OVMSDOC071 disks mounted on the same cluster if eacha) > node has the local CD mounted /SYSTEM.        No.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:49:39 -0600a( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>5 Subject: Re: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?V/ Message-ID: <00A2BC79.DC1B0287.8@tachysoft.com>e  < >From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms6 >Subject: Re: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?  [ >In article <00A2BAFC.A73AC58F.3@tachysoft.com>, Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> writes:i >> kP >> The file I have the most problems with is dcltables.  Sometimes this is foundN >> in sys$specific, sometimes in sys$common.  You have to check where it is if= >> your product updates dcltables, because if you just updateqR >> sys$system:dcltables, you will create a new one in specific instead of updating >> the one in common.n >tL >   Generally there is no need to have dcltables.exe in sys$specific (I knowL >   of one case where it was needed).  Putting dcltables.exe in sys$specific8 >   is usually a sign of a faulty software installation.  I Unfortunately, you can find almost anything at a customer site.  There isaM usually one right way to do something, and approximately 40 billion differentBH ways to do it wrong.  The only reason that every last one of them hasn'tM occurred at a customer site is because there aren't that many customer sites.C  M And when dcltables gets screwed up even worse because you assume it is in the I proper place, they will blame *you*.  So I never want to touch it again. cL Foreign commands are not quite as easy to use and have more limitations, butG they are *totally* self contained and don't depend on *anything* in the- customer's environment.  o  M Well, unless the customer does delete/symb/glob/all and wipes out the foreignn$ command.  But that's pretty obvious.   > B >   And if you put it in sys$system instead of sys$library, you've2 >   really goofed.  (I'll assume that was a typo).  O Yes.  I don't screw with it often, so I forgot.  The point was sys$specific vs.k* sys$common, whatever the actual directory.   WayneuO =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   .O ===============================================================================cB Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?", 	Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:03:33 -0800k% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>-5 Subject: Re: VMS naming conventions for disk volumes?p( Message-ID: <4002C555.9050706@rdrop.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:A >>For the typical hobbyist, the question is "can I afford a SAN"?4 > 7 > No, that would be the question for a _rich_ hobbyist.K > J > The question for the _typical_ hobbyist would be "can I afford multiport' > parallel SCSI controllers from eBay".s  8 My usual question is "Dare I go look at eBay today?" ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:37:03 +0000uO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>s* Subject: Re: VMS runs well on HP Superdome0 Message-ID: <btubeg$ppj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> = > wrote in message news:btjghu$3l4$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...l >  >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >>F >>>"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in > 	 > messageo > 3 >>>news:3FFB7ACA.34800557@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net...a >  > $ >>So I repeat why on earth would you% >>want to sell hardware. You are muchL# >>more likely to make a return fromo
 >>selling SW.i >>) >>You are between a rock and a hard placeK) >>for Itanium to survive it has to becomeb* >>a commodity, but you can only make money/ >>at the low end if you arn't having to competer! >>on a commodity basis with Dell.g >  > M > I guess I'll ask the same question of you:  Why is Sun still in business atuI > all?  The best you've done in a few years is break even in one quarter.t9 > Solaris runs on a PC - why not ditch all your hardware?s >   9 Well because Sun was at least adjacent to making a profit 7 last year while the EBU was ~1 billion dollars a drift.:  5 The only thing HP can demonstrate a consistent returnB8 on is toner, this was the status quo pre merger and none: of cost the center shuffling post merger has changed that.  7 Every quarter Walter Hewletts strategy looks better and9& better and the Boards worse and worse.   Regardsd Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Jan 2004 01:05:55 -08000 From: keith.cayemberg@conti.de (Keith Cayemberg)M Subject: Re: Well Andrew, "3" count them "3" security patches for VMS in fiveg= Message-ID: <3a65a5c8.0401120105.5e6b19c5@posting.google.com>s  E Excuse me one last time, I have checked my sources and find I need to D change one sentence of my earlier Email. The sentence should read...  =    It's an OS that was "Designed" by experts first producing l>    four design iterations, and then the best results of these ?    designs were carried over into a  final design by "The Blue e    Ribbon Committee".   C I had thought to have read that the original 4 designs were by four @ competing teams, but I can no longer find a source for this. TheE essential message remains unchanged. OpenVMS was carefully "Designed"0( by experienced operating system experts.  E I'm not interested in changing history for any purpose. I do stand byO3 my other statements and opinions made in the email.s   Keith Cayembergu. IBM Business Services GmbH - Hannover, Germany   Semi-Nonstandard Disclaimer:3 Any non-official claims concerning my semi-officialr+ opinions are hereby officially disclaimed. h  i.e. I said it, not my employer.0 (and no I didn't steal this one from Yogi Berra)  ? I welcome rebuttal, however a lack of response on my part only i> indicates a lack discretionary time to indulge in discussions ' peripheral to my employment activities.r   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.023 ************************en you could have done TPC-C ?  ; Of course if it is similar to TPC-C then 1 million0 Connected to /disk$misc/decus.	 <<< PWD02 >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus" is current directory./ <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/92avaxlt/tools/lzw4/I< >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/92avaxlt/tools/lzw4. <<< TYPE I >>> 200 Type I ok.
 <<< PASVA >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,16,235)m <<< SIZE lzdcmp.exe  >>> 213 70656< <<< RETR lzdcmp.exesb >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/92avaxlt/tools/lzw4/lzdcmp.exe (70656 bytes) started.; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  69632 (8) bytes transferred.  <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/e( >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus.
 <<< noop >>> 200 No-operation OK. <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus//( >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus.	 <<< PWDy2 >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus" is current directory./ <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/92avaxlt/tools/lzw4/l< >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/92avaxlt/tools/lzw4. <<< TYPE I >>> 200 Type I ok.
 <<< PASVA >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,16,237)l <<< SIZE lzdcmp.memt >>> 213 3894 <<< RETR lzdcmp.memsa >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/92avaxlt/tools/lzw4/lzdcmp.mem (3894 bytes) started.s: >>> 226 Transfer completed.  3175 (8) bytes transferred. <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/s( >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus.
 <<< noop >>> 200 No-operation OK. <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/m( >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus.	 <<< PWD02 >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus" is current directory.* <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/92bvaxlt/tools/7 >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/92bvaxlt/tools.e <<< TYPE I >>> 200 Type I ok.
 <<< PASVA >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,16,238)r <<< SIZE lzdcmp.exe  >>> 213 70656r <<< RETR lzdcmp.exei] >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/92bvaxlt/tools/lzdcmp.exe (70656 bytes) started.; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  69632 (8) bytes transferred./ <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/ ( >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus.:   ANONYMOUS    job terminated at 12-JAN-2004 09:36:07.26d to /disk$misc/decus/92bvaxlt/tools.e <<< TYPE I >>> 200 Type I ok.
 <<< PASVA >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,16,238)r <<< SIZE lzdcmp.exe  >>> 213 70656r <<< RETR lzdcmp.exei] >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/92bvaxlt/tools/lzdcmp.exe (70656 bytes) started.; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  69632 (8) bytes transferred./ <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/ ( >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus.:   ANONYMOUS    job terminated {ݧ!:D7uMoq Jco3~Y6x?7}#s ~3~talo2ģ&efY$FE5A̵_xʨz޾
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