0 INFO-VAX	Fri, 16 Jan 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 30      Contents: Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... Re: Detaching processes on VMS Re: Detaching processes on VMS Re: Detaching processes on VMS Re: Detaching processes on VMS Re: Detaching processes on VMS Re: Detaching processes on VMS Re: Detaching processes on VMS Re: Detaching processes on VMS Re: Detaching processes on VMS  Re: DHCP/BOOTP/PXE under OPENVMSP Re: Faced with flagging PC sales,  HPand others are pushing aggressively into di Re: HP FUDBusting P Re: HP Integrity Superdome server sets world record for 10-terabyte, single-systP Re: HP Integrity Superdome server sets world record for 10-terabyte, single-systP Re: HP Integrity Superdome server sets world record for 10-terabyte, single-syst1 Re: Humongus bug in DECTERM (postscript printing) < Re: IBM announces DB2 for HP Integrity Itanium-based servers< Re: IBM announces DB2 for HP Integrity Itanium-based servers< Re: IBM announces DB2 for HP Integrity Itanium-based servers< Re: IBM announces DB2 for HP Integrity Itanium-based servers< Re: IBM announces DB2 for HP Integrity Itanium-based serversP Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheap  workst. to r IP Address problems  Re: IP Address problems P Judge Upholds Jury Decision In Microsoft Web-Browser Patent Case - U.S. Patent OP Re: Judge Upholds Jury Decision In Microsoft Web-Browser Patent Case - U.S. Pate, Mounting identically labelled disks (OVMS73)0 Re: Mounting identically labelled disks (OVMS73) Mozilla on Alpha question  Re: Mozilla on Alpha question  Re: Mozilla on Alpha question  Question on CHARON VAX Plus  Question on CHARON VAX Plus  Re: Question on CHARON VAX Plus  Re: Question on CHARON VAX Plus  Re: ssh on Ovms 7.3-2  The Inquirer Re: The Inquirer Re: The Inquirer Re: The Inquirer Re: The Inquirer Re: The Inquirer Re: The Inquirer# Re: To all "patriotic" americans... # Re: To all "patriotic" americans... # Re: To all "patriotic" americans...  UTF-8 on VAX-VMS Re: VAX architecture and Charon  Re: VAX architecture and Charon  Re: VAX architecture and Charon # VAXELN-to-VxWorks portability layer  VMS global section Re: VMS global section" Re: Will HP *ever* publicize OVMS?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:39:17 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>' Subject: Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... 8 Message-ID: <etmd009bshk583paeg2hrp220bitqkm0e5@4ax.com>  H On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:46:41 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:   >Keith Parris wrote:H >> And Intel is telling us they plan to drive Itanium prices down to theA >> level of Xeons, so they can phase out Xeons.  That's commodity  >> pricing.  > 6 >In 2007.  By then, the market may have changed a lot.  H Yep.  Unless you've got a more accurate crystal ball, though, we'll just< have to wait to see whose version works out (HP's vs yours).   > H >> A lot of the potential of Alpha didn't pan out, like Windows support,E >> and its use in multiple vendors' systems.  DEC wanted it to become % >> industry-standard.  Didn't happen.  > H >It isn't because it was impossible to do, it was simply because DigitalO >prevented itself from doing it. (think of cyclist sticking his own pump in his  >own wheel).  J Er... exactly what do you think Digital could have done differently to getG Microsoft to put more into 64-bit versions of Windows and applications?    > N >Compaq however was in a position to rescue Alpha and succeed with it. But its@ >relationashiop with Intel was more important than the company's >profits/survival.     Same question.   >  > G >> We're in a better position with Itanium now than we were with Alpha. G >> Windows, Linux, HP-UX, and OpenVMS on the same hardware, at the same  >> hardware prices.  > L >No you are in exactly the same position as Alpha. Replace HP-0UX with Tru64L >and the above line applied to Alpha, until Compaq started to pull the plug.  I You can't count, I guess.  Compaq had Alpha with VMS and Tru64.  They had H MIPS for Tandem, Intel IA32 for Windows.  Linux perhaps ran on Alpha andI Intel.  But Windows on Alpha would never have completely replace the need A for Proliant servers, so you're stuck with 2-3 server businesses.   H Now HP will only have ONE.  Again, count it out yourself.  That's a damnA sight better investment strategy.  Instead of two complete server I organizations (three actually, when you consider Tandem) - which includes H CPUs, systems design, chipsets, sales, support, etc -  you only have oneE for most of that stuff. That's a lot of redundant overhead gone away.    > O >Secondly, IA64 is in a much weaker position with regartds to Alpha because VMS N >will have far fewer software available on it (especially initially). And thatN >will hurt VMS substantially because it will end up reducing the portfolion of >availbale software on VMS.   I Who knows what the future will bring?  The same was true during the Alpha J introduction:  There were LOTS of VAX applications and very few Alpha onesI (especially initially).  It took a lot of faith and commitment to get the J Alpha biz to improve, and it'll take some of the same for IA64 - except HPI will be on firmer gound than Digital had at the Alpha introduction, based A on Intel's commitment to the IA64 platform.  That gives much more ( credibility in the business & ISV world.   > D >> of scale that VMS never before enjoyed.  Looks like Itanium-basedC >> systems are going to price out at only 40-70% of what equivalent  >> Alphas cost.  > K >But remember that under Digital, Alphas were prevented from competing with E >wintel boxes and were artificially priced higher. It isn't a case of " >"couldn't" but rather "wouldn't".  H BS.  FUD.  Absolutely no proof that this has any sound backing in actualG facts.  The business models internally for the Alpha server biz was not @ necessarily the same as the Intel server biz.  Much more design,D qualification, custom-built parts, etc. went into Alpha servers thanJ Proliant.  Ever see a 32-way Proliant?  I don't think Unisys has sold many comparatively speaking.    --- jls 0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:44:09 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>' Subject: Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... 3 Message-ID: <ZbBNb.12446$4c5.3814@news.cpqcorp.net>   P Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: > Rick Jones wrote:   E >> I'll probably get the math wrong, but 40 bits of addressing is 1TB > >> yes? (unless some of those physical bits get used for otherF >> nefarious porpoises I suppose).  I suspect you were very careful toD >> use the word "currently" as the Madison Superdome will shortly be1 >> supporting 1TB of RAM in a single OS instance.  >>    E > No you got the maths right and currently the SuperDome supports 512  > GB    E Shortly going to 1TB.  It would seem the 15K is also at a point today 7 where it plus Solaris supports > 512 GB RAM in a single  domain/partition/whatever:  # http://www.sun.com/servers/highend/ H http://www.sun.com/servers/highend/whitepapers/SUN_SF15K_DS_01-03_V3.pdf  C Combined with the previous asserion of 50 physical address bits for E Madison suggests that at least two of the three major systems vendors > have already seen value in > 40 bit physical addressing in theF high-end.  The IBM p960 is also at 512 GB. I can't quite tell how manyE physical address bits is in POWER4+ - one reference I found suggested > > 40, so it is perhaps all three of the major systems vendors.  = > I would also wager that you have a tiny tiny tiny number of < > SuperDomes currently installed at customers with 1/2 TB of > RAM.  D Could very well be true, but those folks who have bought them can goC farther in RAM should they desire without the vendor having to roll C the CPUs and whatever else might be involved.  Add-in the customers E with p690's and 15Ks and it probably goes from tiny*3 to tiny. As for C the implications of trying to add physical address bits to Opteron, 7 that probably requires stepping outside to comp.arch :)   
 rick jones --  G oxymoron n, Hummer H2 with California Save Our Coasts and Oceans plates F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:47:25 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>' Subject: Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... 4 Message-ID: <1fBNb.12447$4c5.11323@news.cpqcorp.net>  P Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:B > SuperDome currently supports 1/2 TB of RAM and will this year or > next year support 1 TB    @ This. I suspect to be a bit more accurate about it, HP-UX on theD Itanium Superdome will include support.  I believe the capability is already in the hardware.  
 rick jones --  = denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance, rebirth... C                                      where do you want to be today? F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:37:44 +0100  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>' Subject: Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... 2 Message-ID: <bu71t7$9pk$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Keith Parris wrote: Z > Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<bu5gh4$k0i$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>... > S >>However AMD has *one* 32/64 bit architecture for the laptop, the desktop and the  Q >>server environment. Intel will have two very distinctive architectures, 64 bit  B >>for the servers and a rather different 32 bit for anything else. >  > @ > x86-64 may do well on the desktop, but the design is seriously> > compromised for the server space.  Maximum of 8-way (currentH > Superdomes are already at 64-way), 40 bits or 1 TB of physical addressF > space (current Superdomes already support half that address space atE > 512 GB), maximum of 48-bit virtual address space instead of 64-bit,   > and only 16 integer registers.  B Hi Keith, nice chatting with you again, but his time in the group.  P I'm not claiming that the x86-64 is the best thing for Superdome class systems. R I'm referring to the bread and butter servers, let's call them the Proliant class.  F The Itanium was targeted to be the "industry standard" cpu. The way I P interpreted this is x86 successor. And in my view it will fail in that respect, O and the x86-64 will succeed! That means the Itanium will just be a PA-Risc and  L Alpha successor for high end servers. Intel is well aware of this scenario. M There is enough evidence that they are developing x86-64 cpu's, even if they   will not admit it at this time.   P There is or will be a Windows version for the Itanium, but for how long? We had P Windows versions for MIPS, Alpha, and PowerPC, and they are all gone because of & lack of 3rd party and M$ software etc.  Q I still believe that Compaq killed the Alpha and went for the Itanium mainly for  Q the HP/Compaq merger. The Alpha was seen as a burden for this merger. Perhaps in  R a view years time we may come to the conclusion that it could have been the dowry.   Regards, Dirk   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 00:08:16 GMT 3 From: Robert Klute <robert_klute_removethis@hp.com> ' Subject: Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... 8 Message-ID: <cq9e00pbao5ot5l75gon7ahfpei5o8itfd@4ax.com>  C On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:37:44 +0100, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:     R >I still believe that Compaq killed the Alpha and went for the Itanium mainly for R >the HP/Compaq merger. The Alpha was seen as a burden for this merger. Perhaps in S >a view years time we may come to the conclusion that it could have been the dowry.   E My memory of history is that Compaq/Tandem was going with the Itanium G until it bought DEC.  At which point everything switched over to Alpha. H Now I know on this board that was evidence of Compaq seeing the light...   Robert Klute Cupertino Solution Center  Hewlett-Packard Company  ----- 6 The opinions are those of the poster, not the company.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:32:59 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>' Subject: Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... ) Message-ID: <40075B61.F5FC6340@istop.com>    Keith Parris wrote: H > The reason you give (better IA32 pricing) is pure speculation.  But itF > is clear that Dell and IBM think there's enough potential in ItaniumC > that they don't want to miss out.  Dell even sat things out for a  > while, and dove back in.  F Has Dell designed its own motherboards or are they using off-the shelfK "default" boards. If they are merely assemblyng boxes desiogned by Intel or L someone else, they should be seen as a subcontractor of the org who designedL those motherboards instead of a company who has bet their own money on IA64.  K HP has bet its own money and in fact its whole entereprise business on IA64 J and has developped its own proprietary chipsets and motherboards. But what$ have IBM and DELL invested in IA64 ?     > Was, was, was.  It's history.   L But dismissing Digital's errors and ensuing demise has lead to the demise ofJ Compaq and may lead to the demise of HP. Eventually, they may come to call this the curse of Digital.  ? > No, Alpha lost Windows support, and never had HP-UX support.    E Alpha didn't lose WIndows support, Compaq made sure Microsoft stopped  supporting it.  D > HP-UX is about a $20B annual business, much bigger than Tru64 ever > was.)   J One more reason for HP to choose the winning platform its going to bet itsM business on. It had a good platform with PA-RISC that made HP-UX grow to that M 20billion dollar business. It jeoperdized its whole business by going all hog E on an unproven platform that was known to be bloated, problematic and N expensive (when you factor on the compex compilers needed) instead of  keeping' Pa-Risc, or joining forced with Alpha.    J At the time Carly desided to buy Digital/Tandem and kill COmpaq, she couldJ have still dumped the failing IA64 (remember, it was years late and Merced( wasn't yet a reality) and go for Alpha.   C > Initially Alpha didn't have as much software as VAX.  We got past 	 > that.     M Platform transitions, unless done transparently such as Apple transition from L 68k to PowerPc) are alwasy a large drain on an OS's resources and popularity& because they cause customers problems.  M The VAX->Alpha transition happened not long after the peak of VMS, with hopes N that VMS could again regain its #1 position, hopes that the then new CEO wouldN fix the marketing and pricing and make Alpha commodity. Alpha was also a worldL "premire" 64 bity platform, definitely leading the pack, and propelling VMSL from the weakened/expensive VAX to something with showed a lot fo potential.M But even with that, it wasn't long until Palmer started to sabitage the move, L with the silly VEST licensing, the lack of porting of many layered products,L stupid decisions which had to be reversed (FMS, VAXdocument/BOOKREADER etc.)  K The Alpha-<IA64 transition is none of that. VMS is starting off from a very K very weak position and the drain on customers is too much, especially since L the move to IA64 is seen as a downgrade because IA64 has been portrayed as aC loser for so long, including by highly respected Digital engineers.   ? >In the interim, if a given piece of software is only available 6 > on Alpha, folks can continue to run on their Alphas.  L Yep. Remaining customers are ikely to avoid buying IA64 machines for as longE as possible. Problem is that this isn't going to help the already bad  reputation of IA64.   E > HP isn't making that same mistake.  Same HW price regardless of OS.   M But Intel has decided that IA64 wasn't for desktop. And Itel is going to wait F whats is forever in IT years (3 years) before making IA64 competitive.  K Remember that initially, VMS is restricted to HP platforms due to IO driver  stuff.    L You see, no matter how long we wait, the fixing of IA64's problems is alwaysL in the future. Wait for this, wait for that. Yes, IA64 is improving from itsN dismal Merced start, but the question is not only if it can match competitor's% improvements, but also close the gap.     B > Intel has told us they plan to drive Itanium prices down to XeonD > levels, and move the market from 32 bits to 64 bits using Itanium.  M Only heard the bit about lowering proces in the next 3 years. Not heard about  replacing the 8086 platform.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:35:51 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>' Subject: Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... ) Message-ID: <40075C0C.299D49F8@istop.com>    Keith Parris wrote: F > If IBM and Dell were to price IA64 systems below cost, it would makeH > them so attractive that it would shift business away from their other,F > priced-for-profit systems and cause them to lose money.  They're not > that dumb.    C Nobody is interested in IA64 due of lack of software on it, even if $ HP/Dell/IBm gives you the hardware.   N The situation will get better as more software is made available. But will theD rate of increase of available software be fast enough to counter theL competition ? In the case fo VMS which is faced with a decrease in availableL software to begin with, the forced migration to IA64 may be a double whammy.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:11:39 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>' Subject: Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... ) Message-ID: <4007646E.895C93D9@istop.com>    Robert Klute wrote: G > My memory of history is that Compaq/Tandem was going with the Itanium I > until it bought DEC.  At which point everything switched over to Alpha. I > Now I know on this board that was evidence of Compaq seeing the light..   J Until Pfeiffer was outsted and the accountant-wannabe Curly was put at theG helm and scuttled Alpha, wanting to be a 100% slave to Microsoft-Intel.    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 19:44:39 +0000 (UTC) % From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) ' Subject: Re: Detaching processes on VMS ( Message-ID: <bu6qj7$9js$1@pcls4.std.com>  3 In article <PUwNb.12408$MK4.9232@news.cpqcorp.net>, &  <hakansson@otooa.enet.dec.com> wrote:  D >     I seem to recall a program called BOSS that would do somethingA >     similar to the description that Brian has provided. Also, I D >     recall something called SWIM that would do something like that >     as well. > - >     You can get BOSS.ZIP and SWIM.ZIP from:  > 3 >     http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/  > 7 >     I haven't tried either so if you do try them out, % >     let us know in this news group.   @ Thanks for the tips.  Both of those utilities do a decent job ofB multiplexing multiple sessions over a single terminal on my VAX.  C I think I prefer BOSS a little over SWIM.   Unfortunately, neither  A of them address the original poster's desire to detach a process   and reattach to it later.   > At a fundamental level, does VMS have any provisions to allow = processes to let go of their terminals without, as Hoff said  C elsewhere in the thread, cleaning up everything associated with the  user's login session?   @ If this is somehow possible, it shouldn't be too hard to modify A either BOSS or SWIN to support this.  And if my understanding of  C ATTACH is correct, it should already be possible to login later and @ reattach to that "terminal-less" process if you can identify it.   -brian.  --  F --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----5                    Do not fold, mutilate, or spindle.    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2004 15:13:14 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org' Subject: Re: Detaching processes on VMS 3 Message-ID: <IKtItxwmx$IS@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <4ZoceGyrjDA5@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: R > In article <bu6qj7$9js$1@pcls4.std.com>, bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) writes: > A >> At a fundamental level, does VMS have any provisions to allow  @ >> processes to let go of their terminals without, as Hoff said F >> elsewhere in the thread, cleaning up everything associated with the >> user's login session? >  >  > 	$ HELP DETACH$ 	  Sorry, no documentation on DETACH   $ HELP DISCONNECT   ? But that's been mentioned before.  Virtual terminals work on my @ system.  But I use Multinet.  It's not working for OP.  Possibly? because you have to tweak TCP Services to turn it on for telnet  sessions in that environment.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2004 15:06:12 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: Detaching processes on VMS 3 Message-ID: <4ZoceGyrjDA5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   P In article <bu6qj7$9js$1@pcls4.std.com>, bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) writes:  @ > At a fundamental level, does VMS have any provisions to allow ? > processes to let go of their terminals without, as Hoff said  E > elsewhere in the thread, cleaning up everything associated with the  > user's login session?      	$ HELP DETACH   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:48:59 +0000 (UTC) % From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) ' Subject: Re: Detaching processes on VMS ( Message-ID: <bu75cq$mhc$1@pcls4.std.com>  3 In article <4ZoceGyrjDA5@eisner.encompasserve.org>, . Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:+ > In article <bu6qj7$9js$1@pcls4.std.com>,  ) > bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) writes:   B > > At a fundamental level, does VMS have any provisions to allow A > > processes to let go of their terminals without, as Hoff said  G > > elsewhere in the thread, cleaning up everything associated with the  > > user's login session?  >  > 	$ HELP DETACH   Ah, wishful thinking-- if only.    -brian.  --  F --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----5                    Do not fold, mutilate, or spindle.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:17:24 -0600 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> ' Subject: Re: Detaching processes on VMS 2 Message-ID: <40071F84.7C23AA8@applied-synergy.com>   Brian Chase wrote: > 5 > In article <PUwNb.12408$MK4.9232@news.cpqcorp.net>, ( >  <hakansson@otooa.enet.dec.com> wrote: > F > >     I seem to recall a program called BOSS that would do somethingC > >     similar to the description that Brian has provided. Also, I F > >     recall something called SWIM that would do something like that > >     as well. > > / > >     You can get BOSS.ZIP and SWIM.ZIP from:  > > 5 > >     http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/  > > 9 > >     I haven't tried either so if you do try them out, ' > >     let us know in this news group.  > B > Thanks for the tips.  Both of those utilities do a decent job ofB > multiplexing multiple sessions over a single terminal on my VAX.D > I think I prefer BOSS a little over SWIM.   Unfortunately, neitherB > of them address the original poster's desire to detach a process > and reattach to it later.  > ? > At a fundamental level, does VMS have any provisions to allow > > processes to let go of their terminals without, as Hoff saidE > elsewhere in the thread, cleaning up everything associated with the  > user's login session?   D As has been mentioned, the VMS mechanism is CONNECT/DISCONNECT alongC with virtual terminals (VTDRIVER).  These work for serial ports and F (with a bit of finagling) LAT ports.  I don't know whether or not they work for TELNET ports.  H The example you showed involved a FT device.  This is a DECterm window. H I have never seen a virtual terminal associated with a DECterm windows.  (Although it may be possible.)  G Since you are using DECterm, why don't you just open as many windows as  you need and flip between them?   G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2004 18:10:05 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: Detaching processes on VMS 3 Message-ID: <OJ68kWCXvjN8@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <IKtItxwmx$IS@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes:e > In article <4ZoceGyrjDA5@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: S >> In article <bu6qj7$9js$1@pcls4.std.com>, bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) writes:  >>  B >>> At a fundamental level, does VMS have any provisions to allow A >>> processes to let go of their terminals without, as Hoff said  G >>> elsewhere in the thread, cleaning up everything associated with the  >>> user's login session?  >>   >>   >> 	$ HELP DETACH & > 	  Sorry, no documentation on DETACH >  > $ HELP DISCONNECT   E Arrg.  I _tried_ both those commands and then typed in the wrong one.    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2004 18:12:08 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: Detaching processes on VMS 3 Message-ID: <oLpm9PrACtvj@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <40071F84.7C23AA8@applied-synergy.com>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:  F > As has been mentioned, the VMS mechanism is CONNECT/DISCONNECT alongE > with virtual terminals (VTDRIVER).  These work for serial ports and H > (with a bit of finagling) LAT ports.  I don't know whether or not they > work for TELNET ports.  D They will work if you (or the Telnet vendor) poke the proper bits in the template UCB.   J > The example you showed involved a FT device.  This is a DECterm window. J > I have never seen a virtual terminal associated with a DECterm windows.   > (Although it may be possible.)  A Certainly it is not the design center for virtual terminals which B first came about to combat situations where connectivity was lost.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:03:48 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>' Subject: Re: Detaching processes on VMS , Message-ID: <40074684.5020903@tsoft-inc.com>   Mike Naime wrote:   2 > Brian Chase <bdc@world.std.com> wrote in message$ > news:bu5lk0$7s7$1@pcls4.std.com... > > >>In article <LRmNb.8025$Vr7.7892@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>,B >>Michael Austin  <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> wrote: >> >>>Steve Young wrote:  >>> I >>>>  I was wondering if anyone could suggest a tool that would enable me  >>>> > to run > I >>>>detached processes (not in the spawn/detach sense), much like one can  >>>>	 > do with  > J >>>>screen under UNIX.  i.e., I start up a process, detach and log out and >>>> > leave  > C >>>>the process running.  When I log back in I can re-attach to the  >>>>
 > process and  > % >>>>pick up exactly where I left off.  >>>> >>>>  Any ideas? >>>>H >>>Using ConsoleWorks allows me to do this on the console, however, onlyK >>>one person can use it at a time -- actually, multiple people can connect A >>>to it, it is still a single session so you end up with dualing  >>>  > keyboards. > G >>>A better description of the problem you are trying to solve might be  >>>warranted...  >>> K >>I'm not sure it's so much a problem as it is a desired feature.  The tool B >>"screen" that Steve is describing is an almost infinitely usefulH >>productivity enhancer and desktop clutter eliminator.  I have it on myJ >>short list of indispensable bits of non-standard software that I like toK >>have on any Unix system I admin.  And it's a pretty short list-- the only  >>other item on it is "wget".  >>I >>On a Unix system with screen installed, and end-user could do something  >>like the following:  >>J >>* Pull up a Unix shell window on your desktop workstation at the office.C >>* Run the screen program, which presents the user with an new but < >>  otherwise identical shell prompt within the same window.L >>* Type Ctrl-A-C, which creates a second shell session, placing the user at >>  this new shell. I >>* Type Ctrl-A-C again, which creates a third shell session, placing the  >>  user at this new shell. @ >>* Run pine (an text based e-mail client) in the current shell.? >>* Type Ctrl-A-P to go to the previous (second) shell session. : >>* Run a "tail -f" command to monitor the web server log.3 >>* Type Ctrl-A-P to go to the first shell session. 4 >>* Run nethack or tetris for terminals until bored.F >>* Type Ctrl-A-2 to take you to the third shell session where you get? >>  caught up on your mail (the session numbering starts at 0). K >>* Type Ctrl-A-N to cycle around to your first session again to play a bit  >>  more nethack. J >>* Quickly type Ctrl-A-N to cycle to the second session, with the web log, >>  being monitored, when the boss walks by.E >>* After the danger has passed, type Ctrl-A-P to get back to playing  >>  nethack.K >>* At the end of the work day, type Ctrl-A-D to detach screen and leave it D >>  running in the background (where it still holds the nethack, log$ >>  monitoring, and pine processes).E >>* Drive a miserable hour long commute from the office to your home. 2 >>* Get on your home computer and dial up to work.A >>* SSH into your desktop workstation, getting to a shell prompt. : >>* Type in "screen -r" to reattach your screen processes. >>* Play nethack a bit more.@ >>* Type Ctrl-A-2 and check your e-mail under your pine session.0 >>* Type Ctrl-A-D to detach your screen process. >>* Logout. 
 >>* Sleep.E >>* Drive a miserable hour long commute to the office from your home. F >>* Login to your workstation, pull up a shell window, and reattach to >>  the screen process. ! >>* lather, rinse, repeat, etc...  >>L >>And that's really just the basics of what screen offers.  Each instance ofE >>screen you run can hold up to 10 sessions, and you can run multiple L >>instances of screen on a given system, attaching and dettaching to them asK >>necessary.  You can also take snapshots of a given session's text, saving I >>it to file.  You can log a session to file.  You can cut-and-paste text I >>between a screen's sessions.  You can lock your screen session when you  >>walk away from your terminal.  >>C >>Another way to describe screen is that it's a software version of F >>something like a multi-session VT420 terminal, with the exception ofL >>screen being a magnitude or two more useful and flexible than its physicalH >>counterpart.  That ability to detach from the screen sessions and thenJ >>later login and reattach to them from some completely different locationC >>is immensely useful, even without screen's multi-session support.  >>I >>So, as an example, let us say that I've just run the edit command on my L >>VMS system.  Is there some way that I can either "background" (in the UnixJ >>sense) this edit or barring that, is there a way that I can logout whileL >>still, somehow, leaving my edit session running on the VMS system?  And isJ >>it then possible to reattach to that session at some later time, to pick >>up where I left off? >> > L > This sounds exactly like LAT sessions on the old decservers.  You had a VTJ > with up to 8 sessions on the DECserver port that you where plugged into.N > You were able to switch between the active session by (programmable) controlI > codes.   I used CTRL-F for Forward, and CTRL-B for Backwards.  The only N > problem was that the terminal servers had to be on the same network, or on aM > network that allowed you to pass LAT traffic from one LAN to another LAN if   > you didi not want to SET HOST. > J > I remember our old Mainframe used to be setup with the Virtual TerminalsM > that you could re-attach too if you lost connection.  But I'm not real sure N > how they set those up.  We did not use them on the 3100's that I set/used at	 > my end.  >  > B >>TOPS-10 supported this behavior with the 'detach', 'attach', andG >>'reattach' commands, so the concept has been around for rather a long L >>while.  Certainly the original designers of VMS would've been aware of it.F >>The VMS attach command looks promising, but it's not clear how or if3 >>there's a way to explicitly detach a VMS process.  >>	 >>-brian.. >>--H >>--- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----7 >>                   Do not fold, mutilate, or spindle.0    N This type of capability was also available on RSTS/E.  Don't know why the VMS N developers in the early 1980s didn't see any usefulness for it.  I doubt that Q you'll see anything from VMS development now, seeing as they already have plenty S to do.  P The real question then becomes, how many people want such a capability, and how O much do they want to pay for it.  More than a few on this forem understand the  , profitability of third party utilities.  :-(    Sounds like a couple weeks work.     Dave   -- I4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roade Vanderbilt, PA  15486t   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:01:34 +0000 (UTC) % From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase)b' Subject: Re: Detaching processes on VMSP( Message-ID: <bu7k6e$7jb$1@pcls4.std.com>  3 In article <IKtItxwmx$IS@eisner.encompasserve.org>,e"  <briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote:   > $ HELP DISCONNECT  > A > But that's been mentioned before.  Virtual terminals work on my B > system.  But I use Multinet.  It's not working for OP.  PossiblyA > because you have to tweak TCP Services to turn it on for telnetu > sessions in that environment.s  F Okay.  Using the examples in the OpenVMS FAQ, I just got this working E for my rlogin and telnet sessions.  I guess I'll see about getting itiD to work with SSH, LAT, and locally connected terminals when I get to the point of setting those up.  C Does a disconnected session live indefinitely or are there timeoutsN I'll need to work around?R   Thanks.    -brian.i --  F --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----5                    Do not fold, mutilate, or spindle.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:13:08 -0600o/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>o) Subject: Re: DHCP/BOOTP/PXE under OPENVMSa3 Message-ID: <4006E644.2BDCFBA6@applied-synergy.com>a   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > N > A PXE server is planned for Alpha/Itanium OpenVMS in the next release of VMSA > (later this year).  Itanium booting will only use PXE (no MOP).e > 6 > PXE is a superset of BOOTP, it uses MTFTP, and DHCP.  0 Will Itanium OpenVMS still provide a MOP server?    7 > "Harald Pollak" <h.pollak@ksg.co.at> wrote in message 2 > news:pan.2004.01.14.07.58.00.910839@ksg.co.at... > > Hy everybody!!!2 > >0= > > Is it possible to use an OpenVMS 7.3-2 as PXE-Bootserver.zJ > > I think there is a dhcp-, bootp- and a tftp-server in the tcpip( is it > > called ucx? ) ) > > but is the dhcp-server supportin PXE?> > >l
 > > thanks	 > > Harryp  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------h$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074h   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Jan 2004 06:39:08 GMT2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>Y Subject: Re: Faced with flagging PC sales,  HPand others are pushing aggressively into did5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-8BQW4omK0VZ3@localhost>i  " On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:09:30 UTC, < koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  l > In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-u4VCogKy6ndn@localhost>, "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> writes: > > A > > Serious q. Does anybody know whether the PowerPC can operate s > > little-endian? > F >    Yes.  PowerPC is bi-endian.  IBM had OS/2 running on it in little# >    endian mode, possibly WNT too.n  F Hm! Excellent. Then I second Brian's motion nominating it as the next  VMS port target :-)s   Food for thought elswehere too.    -- p Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 19:55:21 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting6 Message-ID: <40074489.DC38AC1F@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   jlsue wrote: > 9 > On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:55:09 -0600, "David J. Dachtera"T/ > <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote:  >  > >Keith Parris wrote: > >> > >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<btub0a$pil$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...> > >> > Ohh dear. The Tru64 extensions to HP-UX have apparently= > >> > slipped to 2005 and HP are apparently stopping sellingd > >> > Tru64 in 2004.  > >>2 > >> According to http://www.hp.com/go/tru64unix :5 > >> "HP is fully committed to the Tru64 UNIX roadmapeG > >> (http://h30097.www3.hp.com/unix/downloads/tru64_unix_roadmap.ppt),tJ > >> delivering updates until at least 2006 with standard support at least > >> until 2011. > >sH > >I know I've seen Sun's opportunistic ads in print. I think I even saw1 > >one in a Time magazine in my dentist's office.n > >y1 > >...and hp's response is only available online.  > >l/ > >I wonder which one(s) got the most exposure?r > G > Hey, I've got an idea, why doesn't HP retroactively put it's print-ad 8 > rebuttal into those very same magazines?  Oh, wait.... > M > Sheesh, how often have you actually seen print ads that rebut a competitorsp@ > ads?  It's not the best way to spend your advertising dollars.  ( I guess Microsoft didn't get the word...  = http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/01/06/HNmslinuxads_1.htmlo  G Pre-empitve rather than re-active, maybe, but still still a response to  a perceived threat.n  D Then again, aren't the Sun ads a response to Compaq and hp's ads and- press release about the transition to Itanic?>   --   David J. Dachteram dba DJE SystemsD http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:30:10 -0500l* From: "rob kas" <rob@paychoice.com.noSPAM>Y Subject: Re: HP Integrity Superdome server sets world record for 10-terabyte, single-syste0 Message-ID: <100du2jept56ub8@corp.supernews.com>  H > The HP Corporate advertising folks are interested only in building theF > overall HP brand image. They tell me the only way a specific productE > name would be mentioned in such an ad is if the customer insists onaF > it. (So now, loyal OpenVMS customers, if you're to be featured in an/ > HP corporate ad, you know what your duty is.)d    )               What a truly stupid policy -   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:10:59 -0500k< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>Y Subject: Re: HP Integrity Superdome server sets world record for 10-terabyte, single-systs9 Message-ID: <bu72s2$ehmec$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>i   Keith Parris wrote:I >...; > The HP Corporate advertising folks are interested only in  building the> > overall HP brand image. They tell me the only way a specific productI >...      > Reminds me that not long ago I received a questionnaire on the: IA64 Test Drive program. One of the questions asked if the9 program changed my opinion on HP. The only answer I couldm; think of was something along the line of "Who cares what my = opinion of HP is? HP is simply the current owner of VMS. I don7 not buy VMS because it has the HP logo on it, I buy VMSa; because it is VMS! Today I am a HP customer because HP ownsr= VMS, if I woke up tomorrow to the news that CA bought out VMSS' then I would be a CA customer. Period."    -- v Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXt www.weaverconsulting.cay   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:40:04 -0500t( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>Y Subject: Re: HP Integrity Superdome server sets world record for 10-terabyte, single-systn, Message-ID: <400708B4.6020909@tsoft-inc.com>   Keith Parris wrote:e  } > "bgInc. - You'll go where we want you to go" <ereiamjh@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<400614C4.6070903@pacbell.net>...T >  >>Great, for HP-UX...w >> > H > Also shows the performance of the Superdome platform that VMS now also" > has been demonstrated to run on. >  > 3 >>now why don't they mention VMS in the usps story i >> > H > The HP Corporate advertising folks are interested only in building theF > overall HP brand image. They tell me the only way a specific productE > name would be mentioned in such an ad is if the customer insists onjF > it. (So now, loyal OpenVMS customers, if you're to be featured in an/ > HP corporate ad, you know what your duty is.)H >   F Then tell me, if you can, why that policy doesn't extend to MicroSoft?  5 Is there anything besides "HP Corporate advertising"?-   Dave   -- 14 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roadl Vanderbilt, PA  15486o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:36:51 -0600a% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>r: Subject: Re: Humongus bug in DECTERM (postscript printing)9 Message-ID: <BQKNb.44442$VV4.13220@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>I  5 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messagei# news:40066411.15900218@istop.com...n< > Digital/Compaq/HP are guilty of destroying a whole forest.  ? If you really want to see destroying a forest, look at what theeL Government/Military does.  What you are describing is nothing in comparison.K I had several printers that printed 24 hours a day for 7 days strait.  They K only time that they stopped was when you changed out the paper, or ribbons.jL In the early incarnation, there was a blank page printed between each singleH page report so that it could be read easier.  Now that is wasting paper!  H > On DECTERM (VAX VMS 7.2), you can select text and ask to print it. The print2C > dialogue asks you what format you want to print, and this includee Postscript.n  L Yes, Like any other OS, you must tell the Print server what the device is on, the other end and what it can and cannot do!  J > So, figuring I was printing to a postscript printer, I chose "postcript" ando5 > queued the print job to the postscript print queue.   J Yes, any idiot can tell the print server that he has a device on the otherF end that is not really there.  This is where the person that sets up aK printer must choose the correct drivers/options.  Otherwise...  you get they results that you had.   I > Low and behold, paper started spewing out of the printer indicating allo sortsi > of errors.... :-)   F So, it seems that the printer that you used did not support postscriptH printing.  I can get this results with my PC any day of the week without trying!t  K > Seems that even if you specify postscript output, DECTERM still generates. just
 > ASCII text.l  L Are you positive that your printer supported postscript, and that it was not6 the postscript output that was causing all the errors?  G > perhaps DECTERM should override this and add a /DATA=ANSI flag to thet printyH > job. (or remove the postscript option if it is incapable of generating postscript).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:02:55 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>E Subject: Re: IBM announces DB2 for HP Integrity Itanium-based serverst- Message-ID: <87y8s9udq8.fsf@prep.synonet.com>p  3 keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:   > > It will be interesting to see, as the UNIX/Linux PortabilityA > Initiative makes such tasks easier, if IBM eventually announcesa( > support for DB2 on OpenVMS on Itanium.  1 They had both DB2 and CICS for Vax way back when.4   -- 1< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.9@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:16:46 -0500w( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>E Subject: Re: IBM announces DB2 for HP Integrity Itanium-based serverss, Message-ID: <4007498E.6030000@tsoft-inc.com>   Keith Parris wrote:h  9 > Lest anyone think IBM doesn't take Itanium seriously...a > 2 > This quote is taken directly from IBM's website:2 > http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/hp/ega.html > E > "Itanium-based solutions from HP have come of age, providing server-G > and workstation users with the applications, powerful performance and D > return on investment (ROI) benefits that are enabling customers to/ > quickly respond to their business challenges.m > B > Itanium-based solutions are here today, performing the real-lifeH > information management jobs that require "heavy lifting". HP Integrity9 > servers, based on the Intel Itanium processors, are theo > standards-based,    G I am amazed that someone from IBM would say such.  I have to ask, what hQ standard(s)?  Other than the CPU mfg is Intel, just what is such a comment based mF upon?  If I was IBM, I'd be sure that anyone who stated such would be O immediately terminated.  Nothing like shoving the knife in the back of the IBM   systems and chips people.      Dave   -- s4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486s   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:48:33 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>tE Subject: Re: IBM announces DB2 for HP Integrity Itanium-based serversiL Message-ID: <5iINb.41137$ZuL1.13696@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Paul Repacholi wrote: 5 > keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:g >.? >> It will be interesting to see, as the UNIX/Linux Portability6B >> Initiative makes such tasks easier, if IBM eventually announces) >> support for DB2 on OpenVMS on Itanium.  > 3 > They had both DB2 and CICS for Vax way back when.t    I And IBM might yet again, if HP ever took advertising and marketing (read: G sales) of VMS seriously. Hell, maybe even Sybase would bring back a VMSn  offering if HP was ever serious.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:40:56 -0500d* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>E Subject: Re: IBM announces DB2 for HP Integrity Itanium-based servers ( Message-ID: <40075D3D.78745DB@istop.com>   Keith Parris wrote:aF > IBM Data Management solutions featuring IBM DB2 UDB can be installedG > on HP Integrity servers running Linux, Windows Server 2003, and HP-UXd > v2."   Why isn't VMS included ? i  L This only shows that moving VMS to IA64 isn't going to increase availability of software.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2004 22:47:15 -0800) From: daniel@mimer.se (Daniel Gustafsson)eE Subject: Re: IBM announces DB2 for HP Integrity Itanium-based serversw= Message-ID: <de4cfd03.0401152247.69bfa59d@posting.google.com>i  \ David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message news:<4007498E.6030000@tsoft-inc.com>... > Keith Parris wrote:e > ; > > Lest anyone think IBM doesn't take Itanium seriously...u > > 4 > > This quote is taken directly from IBM's website:4 > > http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/hp/ega.html > > G > > "Itanium-based solutions from HP have come of age, providing serverrI > > and workstation users with the applications, powerful performance andeF > > return on investment (ROI) benefits that are enabling customers to1 > > quickly respond to their business challenges.h > > D > > Itanium-based solutions are here today, performing the real-lifeJ > > information management jobs that require "heavy lifting". HP Integrity; > > servers, based on the Intel Itanium processors, are the  > > standards-based, >  > I > I am amazed that someone from IBM would say such.  I have to ask, what iS > standard(s)?  Other than the CPU mfg is Intel, just what is such a comment based hH > upon?  If I was IBM, I'd be sure that anyone who stated such would be Q > immediately terminated.  Nothing like shoving the knife in the back of the IBM d > systems and chips people.w  B Not that surprising. IBM's different divisions are more or less onF their own, and sometimes compete between each other within IBM. If theF DB2 software division see that they can earn money on HP stuff they doE that. When IBM still had a harddrive division most of their PC's wererE shipped with Seagate drives because Seagate could offer a better dealeF than IBM's harddrive division. IBM's PC division could earn more money@ on using non-IBM drives. There are lots of examples of this. TheB product manager for the Power series try to talk down Itanium (notF surprising), but the product manager for Intel based servers show muchE more enthusiasm for Itanium. The product manager for AIX might not be-F that happy when other parts of IBM raise Linux to the skies, etc. WhenB the press is writing about *IBM*, it is usually good to know whichF division they are referring to or have interviewed. This is not always obvious.   Regards Daniel Gustafssonc  > Interested in Mimer SQL for OpenVMS? http://developer.mimer.se   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:56:52 GMTt& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>Y Subject: Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheap  workst. to ri8 Message-ID: <riod0057u0phj0dhefo803cjh0gdtdb67c@4ax.com>  H On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:16:21 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:   >Fabio Cardoso wrote:a> >> I believe other companies will follow the same way ! May be> >> something like SPARC + PPC or one of these processors goingJ >> to AMD hands ! So, would be good to the market to have less processors.H >> Less processors means less operetaing systems and applications ports. >.N >VMS engineers have stated that at least for now, VMS will only run on systemsN >equipped with certain IO devices permitting certain types of drivers. Not all2 >IA64 system will have that type of io capability. >bO >In fact, whnen you compare stable enterprise systems you can bet your businesshG >on and those that are cheaper but less reliable, the difference is ther/ >coordination between OS and specific hardware.   H I find this ironic that you make this statement in here, when in anotherI discussion (also in here) you say that Alpha pricing was held artifically3E higher than Intel servers - and yet, which of those platforms had thet5 better coordination between OS and specific hardware?s   --- jls 0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)t   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2004 14:12:25 -0800$ From: chrisgaze@msn.com (Chris Gaze) Subject: IP Address problems= Message-ID: <57512a77.0401151412.39db3c07@posting.google.com>p   Hi,t  < I have a problem with my Alpha server and a router I have.    9 I have set up two ip addresses on the alpha (on one nic).e, One address, the main one, is 192.168.10.102! The alias address is 172.16.26.64u) The address of my router is 172.16.26.126t  A When I first boot up the alpha everything works fine. After aboutoD 15-20 mins I am unable to contact the router, all my pings time out.  D If i ping an address that is not in use on the 172.16.26.0 network IE get, as expected, time outs.  However after pinging an unused addresst% I am able to contact my router again.h  / I have no problems on the 192.168.10.0 network.d   Any ideas would be appriciated.    Thanks   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:37:23 GMTS> From: Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com>  Subject: Re: IP Address problems; Message-ID: <T%INb.8163$Ea6.738@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>e   Chris Gaze wrote:y   > Hi,b > > > I have a problem with my Alpha server and a router I have.   > ; > I have set up two ip addresses on the alpha (on one nic).i. > One address, the main one, is 192.168.10.102# > The alias address is 172.16.26.64r+ > The address of my router is 172.16.26.126g > C > When I first boot up the alpha everything works fine. After about F > 15-20 mins I am unable to contact the router, all my pings time out. > F > If i ping an address that is not in use on the 172.16.26.0 network IG > get, as expected, time outs.  However after pinging an unused addresse' > I am able to contact my router again.p > 1 > I have no problems on the 192.168.10.0 network.s > ! > Any ideas would be appriciated.i >  > Thanks    8 What is your default gateway and give me the output from   $TCPIP SHOW ROUTEy $TCPIP SHOW INTERFACE/CLUSTER   
 Which router?   " if these routes do not exist, try:  B TCPIP> set route 172.16.26.0/net/mask=24/network/gate=172.16.26.64G TCPIP> set route 172.16.26.0/net/mask=24/network/gate=172.16.26.64/permn   Michael Austin   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:10:42 -0500- From: norm.raphael@metso.comY Subject: Judge Upholds Jury Decision In Microsoft Web-Browser Patent Case - U.S. Patent OsQ Message-ID: <OFEE19E380.5F528467-ON85256E1C.006E898C-85256E1C.006F40A6@metso.com>q  9 Judge Upholds Jury Decision In Microsoft Web-Browser Casee    J Meanwhile, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office announced in November that it is reconsidering the patent.w    January 15, 2004: 10:36 a.m. ESTJ CHICAGO (AP)--A judge upheld a jury's decision requiring Microsoft Corp. (G MSFT) to pay $520 million on grounds that its popular Internet Explorerh browser infringed on a patent.    I U.S. District Judge James B. Zagel on Wednesday also rejected a bid for aoJ new trial by Microsoft and ordered the software giant to pay more than $45 million in interest.    E The jury found following a five-week trial last August that Microsoft7K infringed on a patent owned by the University of California. The technologytK allows the delivery of interactive applications to the desktops of users byo+ accessing a Web page anywhere in the world.a    C The suit was filed by the university and Eolas Technologies Inc. of B Chicago, which owns the exclusive rights to market the technology.    G Eolas attorney Martin R. Lueck said he was pleased by the decision "and C that we're one step closer to the final resolution of this matter."uK Microsoft spokesman Jim Desler said the ruling merely finalized the verdict0E reached last year, adding that as a result, Microsoft will appeal theu	 decision.D    G "We feel good about our prospects on appeal and remain steadfast in our>4 belief that the Eolas patent is not valid," he said.    C An appeal would now go to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal H Circuit, based in Washington, which has exclusive jurisdiction in patent cases.    J Microsoft had asked Judge Zagel to throw out the verdict as unsupported byG the facts. It had also asked for a new trial and a stay of entering the H judgment. He turned down all those requests. But he stayed an injunctionI barring Microsoft from infringing on the patent until after the appeal ish	 resolved.u    J Meanwhile, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office announced in November thatG it is reconsidering the patent. The decision followed warnings that anyiK Microsoft redesign of its software would render many Web pages and productst/ of independent software designers incompatible.     ? Officials said reconsideration of the patent would take a year.a    K Dow Jones Newswires 01-15-04 1036ET Copyright (C) 2004 Dow Jones & Company,l Inc. All Rights Reserved.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:22:49 +0100n From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>Y Subject: Re: Judge Upholds Jury Decision In Microsoft Web-Browser Patent Case - U.S. PateN2 Message-ID: <bu74ho$oaj$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   >  > L > Meanwhile, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office announced in November thatI > it is reconsidering the patent. The decision followed warnings that anyTM > Microsoft redesign of its software would render many Web pages and productsc1 > of independent software designers incompatible.  > M Wow, that would really be inconceivable! A M$ product that is not compatible aN with a previous version of the same M$ product. Or even worse, not compatible 7 with the official standards! No one has ever seen that.S   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:30:35 +0000 (UTC)m. From: News Reader <read.news@hostname.invalid>5 Subject: Mounting identically labelled disks (OVMS73)i/ Message-ID: <bu70pq$grd$2@grandcanyon.binc.net>R Keywords: mount nfss  E Ran into a problem recovering files from an image-copied backup of anc+ NFS shared Unix container home directory...r  A The original disk with the Unix home directories is still online.o  @ Mounted the image-copied backup disk.  Had to use the /override:> identification qualifier since the label on the backup disk isA (obviously) identical.  This prevented me from specifying /system E that makes the volume available to all processes, not just my tree...t  ? So, as the NFS server's not in my process tree, it doesn't haveyF permission to access the image-copied backup that I've brought online.  H Now there really is no issue about confusing identically labelled disks!E No, really.  On VMS I can distinguish them easily - they're differentgF devices, and on Unix I can distinguish them easily - they've different
 mount points.g  @ So, how to stop VMS's nannying; letting me nfs share identically labelled disks?g   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:11:45 -0500A* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>9 Subject: Re: Mounting identically labelled disks (OVMS73)t) Message-ID: <40076474.AEB333DD@istop.com>g   News Reader wrote:B > So, how to stop VMS's nannying; letting me nfs share identically > labelled disks?t  L mount one disk without the /SYSTEM or /CLUSTER parameter. It will be mountedH privately. You can then SET VOLUME/LABEL=newlabel to make the drive lookI different. Unmount and you can remount the drive/SYSTEM at which point itw should become available.  M The reson that you aren't allowed two volumes with the same name is that whenbL you mount it, it creates logical names and internal structures identified byJ the volume name. It creates conflicts when you ahe 2 devices with the same volume name.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:30:22 -0600e From: <dittmer@attg.net>" Subject: Mozilla on Alpha question) Message-ID: <40073172_4@news1.prserv.net>    Helloi  . I have a DEC Alpha 500/333 with Open VMS v 7.3 Console v 7.2-2  TCPIP 5.1-15 DecWindows Motif v 1.2-6 and 320 meg of memory5  4 I am having difficulty getting Mozilla v 1.4 to run.K It apprears to have installed properly, but when I invoke @mozilla, it says ? running mozilla.bin, and then comes back to the command prompt.   L I was expecting a new window with the pre-installed Netscape browser to come up.   * Any ideas on how to diagnose this problem? Any more info needed?I  G If this is the wrong newsgroup, I appologize and would appreciate being . directed to a more appropriate newsgroup area.   Russ  ; P.s.  I am a VMS novice to intermediate, please be patient.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 01:45:18 GMTs( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>& Subject: Re: Mozilla on Alpha question+ Message-ID: <OmHNb.19272$Eq.14143@clgrps12>t   dittmer@attg.net wrote::6 > I am having difficulty getting Mozilla v 1.4 to run.M > It apprears to have installed properly, but when I invoke @mozilla, it says>A > running mozilla.bin, and then comes back to the command prompt.s  < You're invoking it by running the COM file provided, right ?  " $ @SYS$COMMON:[MOZILLA]MOZILLA.COM   Alderi   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2004 20:24:16 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)w& Subject: Re: Mozilla on Alpha question3 Message-ID: <f+VP$k2PG9by@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  V In article <OmHNb.19272$Eq.14143@clgrps12>, Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes: > dittmer@attg.net wrote::7 >> I am having difficulty getting Mozilla v 1.4 to run. N >> It apprears to have installed properly, but when I invoke @mozilla, it saysB >> running mozilla.bin, and then comes back to the command prompt. > > > You're invoking it by running the COM file provided, right ? > $ > $ @SYS$COMMON:[MOZILLA]MOZILLA.COM  ( That sounds like a poor engineering job.  ) It ought to run as a regular DCL command.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:49:08 -0500)% From: "@(none)" <""arobert\"@(none)">-$ Subject: Question on CHARON VAX Plus0 Message-ID: <100e9nknd9fvfbc@corp.supernews.com>   Hi Everyone,  H I have an old VAX 7XXX series system running VAX 5.5-2 tied into a star 8 coupler and a StorageWorks array with HSJ40 controllers.  I Applications running on this system are FORTRAN, C, SQL, RDB v6, and FMC l PACER (Financial application).  D We are in the process of investigating how to retire all of the old I hardware and move everything to a Windows 2000 server running CHARON VAX   Plus.s  F Would it be possible for the CHARON emulator to recognize SAN storage G made available to the Windows server through fiber channel adapters or  C am I forced to retain the old Storage array, CI coupler, and HSJ40 e controllers?  : Is there a limitation because of the VMS driver emulation?  I If I am forced to retain the old storage, what kind of adapter cards are lG needed to link up to the CI star coupler and roughly how much should I   expect them to run?   I In the realm of costs, what can I anticipate for costs on the CHARON VAX i> Plus application, maintenance fees, and VAX license transfers?  ) Any insight would be greatly appreciated.o  
 Thank you,
 Andrew Roberts Principal Systems Analystd% TS&S Infrastructure Support - OpenVMS   Massachusetts Financial Services E-mail:  arobert@mfs.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:58:29 -0500n) From: Andrew Robert <arobert@townisp.com>s$ Subject: Question on CHARON VAX Plus0 Message-ID: <100ea95e8n2ev84@corp.supernews.com>   Hi Everyone,  H I have an old VAX 7XXX series system running VAX 5.5-2 tied into a star 8 coupler and a StorageWorks array with HSJ40 controllers.  I Applications running on this system are FORTRAN, C, SQL, RDB v6, and FMC f PACER (Financial application).  D We are in the process of investigating how to retire all of the old I hardware and move everything to a Windows 2000 server running CHARON VAX   Plus.>  F Would it be possible for the CHARON emulator to recognize SAN storage G made available to the Windows server through fiber channel adapters or rC am I forced to retain the old Storage array, CI coupler, and HSJ40 u controllers?  : Is there a limitation because of the VMS driver emulation?  I If I am forced to retain the old storage, what kind of adapter cards are oG needed to link up to the CI star coupler and roughly how much should I e expect them to run?p  I In the realm of costs, what can I anticipate for costs on the CHARON VAX n> Plus application, maintenance fees, and VAX license transfers?  ) Any insight would be greatly appreciated.   
 Thank you,
 Andrew Robertt Principal Systems Analystt% TS&S Infrastructure Support - OpenVMSu  Massachusetts Financial Services E-mail:  arobert@mfs.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:46:19 -0700>+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> ( Subject: Re: Question on CHARON VAX Plus% Message-ID: <4007345B.40706@MMaz.com>r  E > I have an old VAX 7XXX series system running VAX 5.5-2 tied into a i? > star coupler and a StorageWorks array with HSJ40 controllers.r >rG > Applications running on this system are FORTRAN, C, SQL, RDB v6, and a$ > FMC PACER (Financial application). >oF > We are in the process of investigating how to retire all of the old G > hardware and move everything to a Windows 2000 server running CHARON d > VAX Plus.e >oH > Would it be possible for the CHARON emulator to recognize SAN storage I > made available to the Windows server through fiber channel adapters or dE > am I forced to retain the old Storage array, CI coupler, and HSJ40 O > controllers?  E If the fiber channel storage is visable within Windows, yes, you can  I create container files on that SAN storage that would then be mounted by g7 Charon as a phyiscal disk and would be treated as such.M   >a< > Is there a limitation because of the VMS driver emulation?  F No.  Well, yes, there are only two SCSI channels within Charon, seven G SCSI ID's, and eight LUN's per ID so if all SCSI devices were disk and >F none were tape, you could have 112 disk drives represented within VMS.   >bG > If I am forced to retain the old storage, what kind of adapter cards iD > are needed to link up to the CI star coupler and roughly how much  > should I expect them to run?   Can't, none, not an option...y   > G > In the realm of costs, what can I anticipate for costs on the CHARON sD > VAX Plus application, maintenance fees, and VAX license transfers?  H Check with a reseller on the first, minimal on the second, and $1000 to ! HP for both VMS and layered apps.e   >r+ > Any insight would be greatly appreciated.   F You're welcome.  I'm an end user, but call me if you have questions...   Barry        -- g  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:15:58 -0500.2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>( Subject: Re: Question on CHARON VAX Plus, Message-ID: <4006F4FE.6825.12BAFB@localhost>  E > We are in the process of investigating how to retire all of the oldeF > hardware and move everything to a Windows 2000 server running CHARON > VAX Plus.c  E Great!  Actually, depending on system load, there are several CHARON-U0 VAX choices.  Are you running V5.5-2H4 or later?  G > Would it be possible for the CHARON emulator to recognize SAN storagetH > made available to the Windows server through fiber channel adapters orD > am I forced to retain the old Storage array, CI coupler, and HSJ40 > controllers?  C If you can SCSI-connect it to the PC, you're good to go.  Your old n? controllers will make excellent doorstops.  CHARON-VAX doesn't c: connect into CI, but can join a cluster as a NI (network)  participant.  < > Is there a limitation because of the VMS driver emulation?  E It's more a limitation on hardware.  I don't know of anyone worrying DD about how to connect to CI, when hardware RAID on a PC, and gigabit  Ethernet are easy to get.o  F > In the realm of costs, what can I anticipate for costs on the CHAROND > VAX Plus application, maintenance fees, and VAX license transfers?  B HP charges $1000 to transfer VMS, and $1000 total for all layered  products.  Check out:m  @   http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/sri-charon-vax-emulator.html  C As a CHARON-VAX reseller, I can give you pricing, but only after I sC know more about your configuration.  Please email me the Inventory O2 Checklist at http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html   B And, before the flames start, I cannot publish pricing on an open  forum.  
 --Stan Quaylec Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671-1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147r= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comi   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:56:03 +0000 (UTC) % From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase)e Subject: Re: ssh on Ovms 7.3-2( Message-ID: <bu75q3$c5b$1@pcls4.std.com>  0 In article <btuasd$u5s$1@hood.uits.indiana.edu>,2 Irving Fewkes Snurd III <dacadc0@lycos.com> wrote:  H > We just upgraded to -2, and now ssh2 works, but tunneling for Xwindows" > doesn't. Anyone have a solution? >  >     Bill Manwaring, Indiana U6  F Oh my.  Just exactly where at IU is VMS still running?  I thought they$ phased it all out back in the 1990s.   -brian.w -- cF --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----5                    Do not fold, mutilate, or spindle.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:00:13 GMTi= From: peter.watkinson1@<nospam>ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson)s Subject: The Inquirerh6 Message-ID: <4006feaf.3276015@news.cable.ntlworld.com>  ? If the inquirer is so pro AMD64 and Linux why does it run on M$. servers?  E Accordingly if it changed to GNU/Linux serers and used PHP can anyoneC" tell me why PHP isn't Open source?   Cheers,   E Pete - cheesed off with aptitude and Debian on his XP1000 and waiting.? for Montagar.com to come back online so I can renew my hobbyist: license!   cheers,a     Peter Watkinsonn% peter.watkinson1<nospam>@ntlworld.como remove <nospam> to reply :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:31:54 -0600o6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> Subject: Re: The InquirernT Message-ID: <craigberry-2BCBD2.15315415012004@dsl081-159-101.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net>  6 In article <4006feaf.3276015@news.cable.ntlworld.com>,?  peter.watkinson1@<nospam>ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson) wrote:p  H >> Accordingly if it changed to GNU/Linux serers and used PHP can anyone$ > tell me why PHP isn't Open source?   No, because it is:   http://www.php.net/license/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:38:15 GMT.= From: peter.watkinson1@<nospam>ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson)e Subject: Re: The Inquirer 6 Message-ID: <4007082f.5708625@news.cable.ntlworld.com>  4 On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:31:54 -0600, "Craig A. Berry"& <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> wrote:  7 >In article <4006feaf.3276015@news.cable.ntlworld.com>,e@ > peter.watkinson1@<nospam>ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson) wrote: >tI >>> Accordingly if it changed to GNU/Linux serers and used PHP can anyonef% >> tell me why PHP isn't Open source?s >h >No, because it is:a >r >http://www.php.net/license/    ! Tell me this is HTML Open source?h     Peter Watkinson % peter.watkinson1<nospam>@ntlworld.com  remove <nospam> to reply :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:57:13 GMTy& From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid> Subject: Re: The Inquirere3 Message-ID: <Z0ENb.12469$eq5.7512@news.cpqcorp.net>-  > Peter Watkinson <peter.watkinson1@<nospam>ntlworld.com> wrote:A > If the inquirer is so pro AMD64 and Linux why does it run on M$ 
 > servers?  ' Perhaphs they outsauce the web serving.g  
 rick jones -- D= denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance, rebirth...vC                                      where do you want to be today?dF these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...,   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:58:07 -0600,6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> Subject: Re: The Inquirer-T Message-ID: <craigberry-B2B3B4.18580715012004@dsl081-159-101.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net>  6 In article <4007082f.5708625@news.cable.ntlworld.com>,?  peter.watkinson1@<nospam>ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson) wrote:e  6 > On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:31:54 -0600, "Craig A. Berry"( > <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> wrote: > 9 > >In article <4006feaf.3276015@news.cable.ntlworld.com>,iB > > peter.watkinson1@<nospam>ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson) wrote: > >pK > >>> Accordingly if it changed to GNU/Linux serers and used PHP can anyonei' > >> tell me why PHP isn't Open source?O > >  > >No, because it is:t > >r > >http://www.php.net/license/ >  > # > Tell me this is HTML Open source?i  F Um, *what's* your question?  You asked why the software package known D as PHP is not open source.  I pointed out that it is, in fact, open C source and gave a reference to the license that dictates the terms sD under which the source code may be used.  That's what "open source" G generally means: the source code may be used, redistributed, modified, vG or all of the above depending on the terms of the particular license.  sB In your new question, I don't know what "this" refers to (the PHP ? package, the PHP license, the web page on which the license is jD described?), and I have no idea what you mean by "HTML Open source".   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:09:55 -0500r( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: The Inquirerh, Message-ID: <400747F3.3030906@tsoft-inc.com>   Craig A. Berry wrote:   8 > In article <4007082f.5708625@news.cable.ntlworld.com>,A >  peter.watkinson1@<nospam>ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson) wrote:t >  > 6 >>On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:31:54 -0600, "Craig A. Berry"( >><craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> wrote: >> >>9 >>>In article <4006feaf.3276015@news.cable.ntlworld.com>,PA >>>peter.watkinson1@<nospam>ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson) wrote:w >>>b >>>tJ >>>>>Accordingly if it changed to GNU/Linux serers and used PHP can anyone >>>>>s& >>>>tell me why PHP isn't Open source? >>>> >>>No, because it is:h >>>u >>>http://www.php.net/license/ >>>y >># >>Tell me this is HTML Open source?  >> > H > Um, *what's* your question?  You asked why the software package known F > as PHP is not open source.  I pointed out that it is, in fact, open E > source and gave a reference to the license that dictates the terms  F > under which the source code may be used.  That's what "open source" I > generally means: the source code may be used, redistributed, modified, 0I > or all of the above depending on the terms of the particular license.  CD > In your new question, I don't know what "this" refers to (the PHP A > package, the PHP license, the web page on which the license is eF > described?), and I have no idea what you mean by "HTML Open source". >   P Looks like the question is whether HTML is an open source product.  But HTML is M not a product, it's more of a language.  There can be multiple products that nN implement the language, and while I don't know if the HTML language is public S domain, it is implemented in browsers and I've never seen any mention of ownership.s   Dave   -- y4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roadn Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:52:57 GMTd4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: The Inquirerh0 Message-ID: <40075890.60FE75D9@blueyonder.co.uk>   David Froble wrote:u  g > >s > Q > Looks like the question is whether HTML is an open source product.  But HTML is N > not a product, it's more of a language.  There can be multiple products thatO > implement the language, and while I don't know if the HTML language is publicoU > domain, it is implemented in browsers and I've never seen any mention of ownership.e >  > Dave   R CERN must be kicking themselves, if they'd patented and marketted html instead of 6 giving it away maybe they could have funded the LHC:-)   --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:24:21 -0600h From: stellar@idirect.com (Rod)m, Subject: Re: To all "patriotic" americans...1 Message-ID: <PcCdnaec-P1oa5vdRVn-gg@giganews.com>r  A djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net (David J. Dachtera) wrote...s >t >I don't get the connection. >cC >Henry Ford developed mass-production into a viable business model.a >aA >Sam Walton developed discounted mass-merchandising into a viableo >business model. >bF >Rome developed debauchery, perversion and decadence into an art form. >rE >Where's the link I'm not seeing? ...or is it as simple as "commodity.C >products" that are affordable to the masses? (Rome doesn't fit thee
 >pattern.)  H Henry Ford worked his people really hard.  Treated them like machines.  I There's recently been stuff on the tube about how Wal-Mart employees are xJ treated (i.e. similarly).  If you're not bothered by people being treated D like machines...you won't see a problem.  It will just be a "viable  business model".  F The greatest art the Romans did preceded their decadence.  Everything I fell into decay, including their art and architecture, during the period   of empire collapse.   G It takes a positive force to keep art elegant and proud.  An expanding dG empire is what pushed Roman art to reach its glory.  Strong emperors.  e: Not weak and sick, like Nero and the others that followed.  G But I don't see any connection between Ford/Wal-Mart and Rome myself.  iC However I don't do drugs.  I should, really, then I could see more   connections.  :)   Rode   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Jan 2004 00:32:05 GMT, From: "Jorge R. Frank" <jrfrank@ibm-pc.borg>, Subject: Re: To all "patriotic" americans...3 Message-ID: <Xns9471BDF097F7Ejrfrank@204.52.135.40>i  " stellar@idirect.com (Rod) wrote in* news:PcCdnaec-P1oa5vdRVn-gg@giganews.com:   C > djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net (David J. Dachtera) wrote...n >> >>I don't get the connection.u >>D >>Henry Ford developed mass-production into a viable business model. >>B >>Sam Walton developed discounted mass-merchandising into a viable >>business model.r >>G >>Rome developed debauchery, perversion and decadence into an art form." >>F >>Where's the link I'm not seeing? ...or is it as simple as "commodityD >>products" that are affordable to the masses? (Rome doesn't fit the >>pattern.)o > H > Henry Ford worked his people really hard.  Treated them like machines.  K His contemporaries worked their people equally hard, and treated them like h/ animals. And Ford paid his workers much better.    --   JRFn  3 Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail, / check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and  think one step ahead of IBM.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:07:59 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, Subject: Re: To all "patriotic" americans...6 Message-ID: <4007477F.181881EF@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>  
 Rod wrote: > C > djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net (David J. Dachtera) wrote...e > >i > >I don't get the connection. > >@E > >Henry Ford developed mass-production into a viable business model.e > >rC > >Sam Walton developed discounted mass-merchandising into a viablee > >business model. > >/H > >Rome developed debauchery, perversion and decadence into an art form. > >nG > >Where's the link I'm not seeing? ...or is it as simple as "commodityBE > >products" that are affordable to the masses? (Rome doesn't fit thee > >pattern.) > H > Henry Ford worked his people really hard.  Treated them like machines.   Hence, the rise of the UAW.i  J > There's recently been stuff on the tube about how Wal-Mart employees are > treated (i.e. similarly).m    This is fairly common knowledge.  1 >  If you're not bothered by people being treatedt+ > like machines...you won't see a problem. 8  G I've known of the problem since I was old enough to know what UAW stoode for.   > It will just be a "viable  > business model".  A Business model is one thing. Unfortunately, these days due to thes? unrelenting moral decay in the world, employee relations is nots< considered part of the business model unless it promotes the profitability of the company.5  * Not saying it's right, just the way it is.  G > The greatest art the Romans did preceded their decadence.  EverythingnJ > fell into decay, including their art and architecture, during the period > of empire collapse.< > H > It takes a positive force to keep art elegant and proud.  An expandingG > empire is what pushed Roman art to reach its glory.  Strong emperors.i< > Not weak and sick, like Nero and the others that followed.  3 When I think of "sick", I think mostly of Caligula.a   -- . David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:11:25 -0500l* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: UTF-8 on VAX-VMS ) Message-ID: <40076461.EEC6CC4C@istop.com>d  L 	Wanting to serve WAP content,  I need to generate UTF-8 encoded text files.  K The utilities documented on VMS's help do not work on VAX-VMS because UTF-8r1 encodings are absent. (reference: ICONV utility).   N Does anyone know where one can obtain UTF-8 encodings that can be compiled andI used by ICONV, or some standalone utility that can convert VMS files fromI LATIN1/DEC-MCS to UTF-8 ?a  K Would there be some easy way to declaresome file semantic or whatever othervL mechanism that would allow one to edit such a file with TPU, and upon saving; the file, it would automatically be stored in UTF-8 again ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:26:08 -0600 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> ( Subject: Re: VAX architecture and Charon2 Message-ID: <4006E950.EA9D297@applied-synergy.com>   Robert Boers wrote:  > > > "Chris Scheers" <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote in message. > news:4005BE2A.B0BD083@applied-synergy.com... > > Bob Koehler wrote: > > >aM > > > In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-Hs2bHgj6HB1d@localhost>, "Dave Weatherall"a$ > <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> writes: > > > >u > > > > BobrN > > > >           when researching the possibility of using Charon-VAX for oneM > > > > of our applications, I noticed  a reference to a DRQ3B equivalent PCIkK > > > > card, on SRI's page. I even proposed it for last years's budget butw. > > > > have been too busy to take it forward. > > > > L > > > > The card itself was manufactured a compamy in California. I'm sure IB > > > > saved the page somewhere but can't find it a t the moment. > > >-L > > >    I've seen references to the hardware components.  One company makesL > > >    a Qbus PCI adapter and Qbus DRV11-W and DRQ3B look-alikes.  AnotherJ > > >    company makes a single PCI card that will emulate DR11-B, DR11-W, > > >    DRV11-W, or DRQ3B.1 > > >51 > > >    It's the timing I'm not willing to risk.  > >o > > It's not just timing.e > >hJ > > As I understand it, these PCI cards are designed to plug into an AlphaE > > and come with Alpha drivers which are QIO compatible with the VAX  > > drivers. > >vH > > There is no reason to think that these cards are register compatibleH > > with the Q-bus cards. (They really can't be, they are on a different	 > > bus.)l > > K > > Unless Charon-VAX does something really strange, I'ld be very surprisedvJ > > if it was able to do anything with these cards without some additional > > coding.   pL > The Logical Company designed the PCI parallel and IEQ-11 replacement cardsN > specifically to be register compatible with the original Qbus cards, so thatK > we could integrate them in CHARON-VAX in a transparent manner. CHARON-VAXhL > maps their registers in the virtual VAX environment in such a way that theF > standard binary VAX drivers work (not just VMS, also VAXEln etc). No  > additional coding is required. > I > For devices for which no compatible PCI replacement cards have yet been N > developed, the BCI-2104 PCI-Qbus adapter can be used to support the original > Qbus interfaces.    : Now that's interesting.  (Les does good work, doesn't he?)  ( I understand about the PCI-Qbus adapter.  D So Charon-VAX has special coding to recognize the IEQ-11 replacementE cards and then map that block of PCI registers into the Q-bus addressg
 space, right?t  A Can an arbitrarty block of PCI registers be mapped into the Q-bus  address space?    G -----------------------------------------------------------------------6$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:17:52 +0100l2 From: "Robert Boers" <robert.boers@softresint.com>( Subject: Re: VAX architecture and Charon5 Message-ID: <4006f573$0$718$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch>u  < "Chris Scheers" <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote in message, news:4006E950.EA9D297@applied-synergy.com... [...]aF > So Charon-VAX has special coding to recognize the IEQ-11 replacementG > cards and then map that block of PCI registers into the Q-bus addressr > space, right?u   Correct.  C > Can an arbitrarty block of PCI registers be mapped into the Q-bus2 > address space?  K Yes. There is actually an API in CHARON-VAX (CHAPI) to connect the emulated E Qbus to a Windows application that defines additional Qbus addresses,hD interrupt vectors, DMA operations etc. This way you can map anything: including PCI registers. I've mailed you the CHAPI manual.   Regards, Robert    ------------------------------   Date: 16 Jan 2004 06:39:06 GMT2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>( Subject: Re: VAX architecture and Charon5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-mwRzvY1OHGmg@localhost>k  F On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:18:15 UTC, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith  Parris) wrote:  q > "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> wrote in message news:<DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-Hs2bHgj6HB1d@localhost>...iJ > >           when researching the possibility of using Charon-VAX for oneJ > > of our applications, I noticed  a reference to a DRQ3B equivalent PCI H > > card, on SRI's page. I even proposed it for last years's budget but * > > have been too busy to take it forward. > > I > > The card itself was manufactured a compamy in California. I'm sure I t> > > saved the page somewhere but can't find it a t the moment. > L > Perhaps you're thinking of The Logical Company, http://www.logical-co.com/   That's the one.r   -- a Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:26:48 -050000 From: Jerry Hudgins <jerry@hudgins.delete-me.us>, Subject: VAXELN-to-VxWorks portability layer7 Message-ID: <YoENb.1550$0t4.330@bignews5.bellsouth.net>e  G I recall that Digital offered a VAXELN portability layer for VxWorks atTH one point.  Presumably, that disappeared as a product long ago.  Was theD source for it ever released?  If so, would one someone who has it beG willing to provide me with a copy?  This isn't for commercial use; it'sZ$ really just to satisfy my curiosity.   -jch   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:46:43 +0100 ) From: "Jean Mertens" <jmertens@skynet.be>l Subject: VMS global section 4 Message-ID: <4006edcb$0$281$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>  K Is there a way / tool to map from a client PC global sections on an OpenVmsi system ?J Currently my applications uses Decforms and Fortan modules to map and editI several global sections that appears to Fortran code like a permanent ando resident common in memory.G Each global section has a file on disk associated that is automaticallyL* udated by Vms when ever a field is changed in the section.e  H I need to eliminate Decforms and transfer the functionality to a Pc in a kind of client-server way.K Would appreciate any help , advise or tools available from the market placer to perform such function.i  J I was thinking of building some kind of OPC server on the Vax side and use on the PC an OPC capable toolaL but I've no experience what so ever in OPC nor DCOM, COM or ActiveX xhich is? now supported on Alpha / OpenVms 7.? (forgot the exact release)    Thanks in advancen   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:26:16 -0500r2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> Subject: Re: VMS global sectiont- Message-ID: <4006F768.16981.1C28CD@localhost>r  , On 15 Jan 2004 at 20:46, Jean Mertens wrote:H > I need to eliminate Decforms and transfer the functionality to a Pc inD > a kind of client-server way. Would appreciate any help , advise orA > tools available from the market place to perform such function.   F Veratream from WRQ (www.wrq.com) appears to do what you need.  And if E you decide to buy it, mention me [since I'm a WRQ partner (shameless  
 plug alert)]. 
 --Stan Quaylea Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671s1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147-= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:42:32 -0600I@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>+ Subject: Re: Will HP *ever* publicize OVMS? 6 Message-ID: <40074F98.314ECDC6@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   John Smith wrote:  > N > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1738&ncid=738&e=9&u=/zd/2004 > 0115/tc_zd/116601o > @ > Hewlett-Packard Co. on Thursday will announce that it earned aH > record-breaking $2.5 billion Linux (news - web sites)-based revenue inJ > fiscal 2003, with its Linux services and solutions business posting a 40  > percent rise over fiscal 2002. > K > While the revenue was derived from the sale of Linux-related products and-K > services, the Palo Alto, Calif., company did not specify exactly what wase. > included and counted as Linux-based revenue. > * > Where's the HP press release about OVMS?1 > carly(tm) and the Bored - deaf, dumb, and blinde  A Perhaps hp have patented Stealth Marketing and are now seeking tog license that...f   -- F David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemsy http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.030 ************************