0 INFO-VAX	Sat, 17 Jan 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 32      Contents: Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped..." c openvms newbie %CC-W-PTRMISMATCH& Re: c openvms newbie %CC-W-PTRMISMATCH& Re: c openvms newbie %CC-W-PTRMISMATCH& Re: c openvms newbie %CC-W-PTRMISMATCH Re: Detaching processes on VMS Re: Detaching processes on VMS Re: Detaching processes on VMS Re: Detaching processes on VMS  Re: DHCP/BOOTP/PXE under OPENVMS  Re: DHCP/BOOTP/PXE under OPENVMSH Re: Faced with flagging PC sales,  HPand others are pushing aggressively. Re: How many file header does indexf.sys have?. Re: How many file header does indexf.sys have?= Re: HP rockets to No. 5 on list of top U.S. patent recipients < Re: IBM announces DB2 for HP Integrity Itanium-based servers Re: IP Address problems  Re: IP Address problems  Re: IP Address problems / Looking for a monitoring utility for OpenVMS 7+ 3 Re: Looking for a monitoring utility for OpenVMS 7+ 3 Re: Looking for a monitoring utility for OpenVMS 7+ ' Re: Minimum Privs for Changing Password ' Re: Minimum Privs for Changing Password ' Re: Minimum Privs for Changing Password 0 Re: Mounting identically labelled disks (OVMS73)0 Re: Mounting identically labelled disks (OVMS73)0 Re: Mounting identically labelled disks (OVMS73) Re: Mozilla on Alpha question  Re: Mozilla on Alpha question  Re: Mozilla on Alpha question  Re: Mozilla on Alpha question 3 Re: Non-WS Process Quotas not in Performance Manual 3 Re: Non-WS Process Quotas not in Performance Manual F Re: Oracle Rdb on GS1280 with 7.3-2 exceeds 1 million transactions perF Re: Oracle Rdb on GS1280 with 7.3-2 exceeds 1 million transactions perF Re: Oracle Rdb on GS1280 with 7.3-2 exceeds 1 million transactions perF Re: Oracle Rdb on GS1280 with 7.3-2 exceeds 1 million transactions perF Re: Oracle Rdb on GS1280 with 7.3-2 exceeds 1 million transactions perF Re: Oracle Rdb on GS1280 with 7.3-2 exceeds 1 million transactions per  Re: Rally VAX to Alpha Migration Re: The Inquirer Re: The Inquirer@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems) Re: Time synch between an Alpha and a Vax ) Re: Time synch between an Alpha and a Vax  Re: UTF-8 on VAX-VMS Re: UTF-8 on VAX-VMS Re: VMS global section* VOLUME SHADOW over FDDI using Alpha and CI. Re: VOLUME SHADOW over FDDI using Alpha and CI. Re: VOLUME SHADOW over FDDI using Alpha and CI) What is mystery object in VMS screensaver - Re: What is mystery object in VMS screensaver - Re: What is mystery object in VMS screensaver P Re: what's worse?  was Re: Judge Upholds Jury Decision In Microsoft Web-Browser P [OT]: what's worse?  was Re: Judge Upholds Jury Decision In Microsoft Web-Browse  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2004 15:31:49 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ' Subject: Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... 3 Message-ID: <hj5IxbHNBrEB@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <bu96ru$nf8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote:b >> In article <XYednbTQjeLnS5rdRVn-jw@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >>  ; >>>"Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message 0 >>>news:sB5lG0CN3lHt@eisner.encompasserve.org... >>>  >>>... >>> * >>>  Itanium server prices are going to be >>> 3 >>>>incredible a few years out and are sweet today.  >>> K >>>I don't have any more time to waste on you than I had to waste on jlsue, O >>>Rob.  So I'll just note that Itanic server prices suck compared with Opteron  >>>server prices >>   >>  D >> 	But they are a whole lot better than 4-way Power boxes and 4-wayA >> 	UltraSparc boxes andr 4-way PA-RISC boxes.  Opteron isn't for D >> 	everyone as Itanium has quite a few more OEMs committed to using- >> 	it than Opteron does in the server space.  >>   > A > Do you have any idea at all what a 4 way UltraSPARC box costs ?  > ) > V440 with 4 CPU's 16GB of RAM = $25,995  > ( > How much do you think a 4 way Itanium   B 	So you've got a point - 4-way UltraSparcs are cheaper, especiallyC 	if you use CPUs as powerful as a Celeron.  The IIIi in there, does B 	what?  600 SpecInt2000 with a heavy tail-wind?  Come on, it isn'tD 	even worth buying is it?  Unless you prefer to run Solaris.  A muchD 	better comparison would be a 4-way Xeon at Dell.  Not only would it7 	seriously outperform the V440 but it would be cheaper.   ? > The HP rx4640 with 4 x 1.3 Mhz Itanium II and 16 GB = $82,501 : > not anywhere close to a 4 way Sun or even a 4 way XeonMP  > which from HP come in at ~30K. > : > Its better not to just guess Rob, you always get caught.  : 	Better to figure out what I mean then to bluster on aboutA 	nothing much at all.  As I mentioned earlier, additional CPUs at @ 	$5400 each.  That certainly isn't HP.  The machine I am talking* 	about lists for $21559 for 4-way Itanium.  ? > So for Itanium you have HP, with very very lukewarm offerings A > from IBM and Dell (IBM for example have chosen Xeon not Itanium + > for their next big Intel based SMP box).    > 	And they will sure sell a ton of those as Dell abandoned 8way4 	on up because the paucity of clients in that space.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:05:23 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>' Subject: Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... ) Message-ID: <40086E2E.A2F67871@istop.com>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------4BA329DE70EFAD4B0639AE0C* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit    Rob Young wrote:B >         You are either deliberately missing or overlooking whereA >         high-end (read: 64-bit Enterprise) computing is headed.  > I >         Intel has Spink and Bannon and Emer and crew.  It isn't much of I >         a stretch to assume there is a future Itanium chip that has all , >         the features of EV7 and then some,    I And you are either deliberately missing or overlooking where those former  Decies are actually working.  L Consider that AMD's offering already has many Alpha features inside, such asJ glue etc. Consider that Intel will have to ramp up its 32 bit 8086 into 64 bits very soon now.   M My money is on the ex dec engineers being involved with the 8086 architecture K more than with IA64. Their experience and mentality is much more compatible D with the 8086, especially since the 8086 already includes much alphaJ technology (remember when palmer pardonned Intel for having stoled all the Alpha stuff for its pentium ?)  N The IA64 engineers already have official access to the Alpha technologies theyD think could be implemented. But the Alpha engineers are used to RISCH platforms, not EPIC stuff. So, if you are intel, and you have a bunch ofM really smart RISC engineers from whom's you've already stolen much IP for the L 8086, it then makes sense to put those to work on the 8086 and then come outG with something that will make AMD's 64 bit 8086 look like a microvax I. & --------------4BA329DE70EFAD4B0639AE0C- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;   name="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit & Content-Description: Card for JF Mezei  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"    begin:vcard  n:Heshelhurst;Aaron  tel;work:+41 80 7261 1267  x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.bbc.co.uk org:BBC World News;Business & adr:;;175 High Street;London;;;England version:2.1 & email;internet:a.heselrhurst@bbc.co.uk title:Reporter x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Aaron Heshelhurst	 end:vcard   ( --------------4BA329DE70EFAD4B0639AE0C--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:44:28 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>' Subject: Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... 6 Message-ID: <1040116193506.33368C-100000@Ives.egh.com>  = On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:    > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:' > > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"  > > C > >>Do you have any idea at all what a 4 way UltraSPARC box costs ?  > >>+ > >>V440 with 4 CPU's 16GB of RAM = $25,995  > >> > >  > > P > > Yup.  1/3 the price at 1/3 the performance :)  Just add per-CPU license cost' > > for your database and stir well ;-)  > >  > >  > >  > < > Why would performance matter even if your point was true ? > ? > The 1-4 way market is decided pretty much on price, footprint  > and application availability.   < So the customer goes to the vendor and says "give me a 4-CPU> system as cheap as possible.  I don't care about performance?"  > Why would they care about the number of processors?  Bragging?> "I have 4 processors in my server, it only cost 25K.  You only9 have 2 processors, and spent more.  So what if your 2-CPU ' system is faster than my 4-CPU system."    > ? > When most people have systems that average 10-20% utilisation D > pissing competitions about relative performance thats not measured= > in orders of magnitude is the last thing that customers are 
 > interested.   C What's the peak utilization, during the Christmas rush or month-end @ closing or the day O'Hare is snowed in and everyone is rebooking- their flights?  Average often doesn't matter.   ; > Why is it do you think that Sun has sold more V440's than * > the entire Itanium market put together ?  ? Better marketing and historical momentum due to DEC overpricing # VAXes and VMS during the late 80's.    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:39:24 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... 2 Message-ID: <1YmdnUCS7b7QPZXdRVn-ug@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:+scjWsm2laeX@eisner.encompasserve.org...    ...   B > How long before Sun knifes UltraSparc as more of their customers, > leave for Windows or toys around with x86?  I How long indeed?  Unless you have information that's not available to the < rest of us, I'd say you're up to your ass in FUD once again.  L Sun will *first* see just how popular the alternative platform is with theirI customers - in rather dramatic contrast to Compaq's decision to dictate a J migration without bothering to consult them at all.  Then, *if* there's noL continuing market for SPARC, SPARC will wither (just in case you're inclinedK to jump on this out of context, please note again the 'if' at the beginning J of the sentence); if not, Sun will most likely happily continue to provide- SPARC systems to satisfy the demand for them.      Point here is of course ? > is if Sun moves off UltraSparc in the next 2-5 years all this B > whining and crying about knifing Alpha becomes a total borefest, > right?  I Just why do you think what Sun might or might not do in this area at some E undefined point in the future *after* having seen  what its customers F actually want has *anything* to do with how Alpha customers feel about@ having been betrayed and lied to in attempts to justify it, Rob?   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 22:31:28 GMT " From: tutor_removespam_@cfl.rr.com+ Subject: c openvms newbie %CC-W-PTRMISMATCH 8 Message-ID: <3ipg00taque0psr5f3qh178q5fcdga893q@4ax.com>   Hi, > Below is the code which ran perfectly on VAX, now fails to get? compiled on ALPHA....Do I need to do some sort to type casting? > By doing type casting to keep the compiler happy, what type of. problems do I face during the testing phase...   Thanks, B ****************************************************************** In the function definition: $ unsigned long myfunc(int *something) {  ...some code here  }   $ In the main, the code is as follows:   main() {  unsigned long status;    ...some code here    status = myfunc(&NULL);  }    I got this error:     @ %CC-W-PTRMISMATCH, In this statement, the referenced type of theA pointer value "&((void ...)0)" is "pointer to void", which is not  compatible with "int".  . ********************************************** tutor at cfl dot rr dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:45:41 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>/ Subject: Re: c openvms newbie %CC-W-PTRMISMATCH ) Message-ID: <400885AA.32834367@istop.com>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------2ECA17475A02729593395DB7* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   # tutor_removespam_@cfl.rr.com wrote: @ > Below is the code which ran perfectly on VAX, now fails to get > compiled on ALPHA...  L Looks like you are migrating from VAX-X to DEC-C (DEC-C also exists on VAX).  " DEC-C is very strict and pedantic.  < You will need to declare your functions prior to using them.   so:    int myroutine( int *argument);   main() {  int a; a = 	myroutine(&NULL); }    int myroutine(int *argument) {  return(*argument); } & --------------2ECA17475A02729593395DB7- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;   name="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit & Content-Description: Card for JF Mezei  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"    begin:vcard  n:Heshelhurst;Aaron  tel;work:+41 80 7261 1267  x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.bbc.co.uk org:BBC World News;Business & adr:;;175 High Street;London;;;England version:2.1 & email;internet:a.heselrhurst@bbc.co.uk title:Reporter x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Aaron Heshelhurst	 end:vcard   ( --------------2ECA17475A02729593395DB7--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:03:52 -0600 6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>/ Subject: Re: c openvms newbie %CC-W-PTRMISMATCH T Message-ID: <craigberry-367B5B.19035216012004@dsl081-159-101.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net>  8 In article <3ipg00taque0psr5f3qh178q5fcdga893q@4ax.com>,$  tutor_removespam_@cfl.rr.com wrote:   > Hi, @ > Below is the code which ran perfectly on VAX, now fails to getA > compiled on ALPHA....Do I need to do some sort to type casting? @ > By doing type casting to keep the compiler happy, what type of0 > problems do I face during the testing phase... > 	 > Thanks, D > ****************************************************************** > In the function definition: & > unsigned long myfunc(int *something) > {  > ...some code here  > }  > & > In the main, the code is as follows: >  > main() > {  > unsigned long status;  >  > ...some code here  >  > status = myfunc(&NULL);  > }  >  > I got this error:  >  > B > %CC-W-PTRMISMATCH, In this statement, the referenced type of theC > pointer value "&((void ...)0)" is "pointer to void", which is not  > compatible with "int". >   D You probably don't mean to be passing the address of a generic NULL H pointer.  VAX C may have actually allocated  a zero constant and passed E its address, but that's almost certainly not what was intended.  Get  D rid of the "&" and see what happens, but be sure you understand the A logic of myfunc and what it's doing with the "something" pointer.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:01:42 -0600 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> / Subject: Re: c openvms newbie %CC-W-PTRMISMATCH 3 Message-ID: <40089786.2C242C4D@applied-synergy.com>   # tutor_removespam_@cfl.rr.com wrote:  >  > Hi, @ > Below is the code which ran perfectly on VAX, now fails to getA > compiled on ALPHA....Do I need to do some sort to type casting? @ > By doing type casting to keep the compiler happy, what type of0 > problems do I face during the testing phase... > 	 > Thanks, D > ****************************************************************** > In the function definition: & > unsigned long myfunc(int *something) > {  > ...some code here  > }  > & > In the main, the code is as follows: >  > main() > {  > unsigned long status;  >  > ...some code here  >  > status = myfunc(&NULL);  > }  >  > I got this error:  > B > %CC-W-PTRMISMATCH, In this statement, the referenced type of theC > pointer value "&((void ...)0)" is "pointer to void", which is not  > compatible with "int".  = It sounds like you are moving from VAX-C to DEC-C.  VAX-C was ? notoriously sloppy about pointers.  DEC-C is much closer to the 
 standards.  H The exact causes of this error may depend on which compiler switches you use.  D In any case, NULL is already a pointer.  You do not need (nor do youD want to) take it's address.  Removing the "&" will probably fix your error.  
 Good luck!  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:50:45 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <My.Full.Name@intel.com>' Subject: Re: Detaching processes on VMS + Message-ID: <bu9mbm$kif$1@news01.intel.com>    Brian Chase wrote: [snip]@ > At a fundamental level, does VMS have any provisions to allow ? > processes to let go of their terminals without, as Hoff said  E > elsewhere in the thread, cleaning up everything associated with the  > user's login session?   8      Back in the VMS V3.0 days, we had a program called,8 appropriately enough, "CONNECT".  We used it to "attach"= to long-running data analysis jobs submitted to batch queues. 7 The data analysis program used a CLI and this was a way % to query progress or get output, etc.   <      The key strategy was for the analysis program to create= and open a channel to a mailbox and define a logical name for : the mailbox in a shared name table (we used LNM$GROUP, but= I've seen other, better solutions).  When the CONNECT program : was run, it would open a channel to the analysis program's? mailbox, and voila, it was like you were running interactively.   ?      The point is, the mailbox solution would work just as well = for communicating with a detached process as for a batch job.   6      The other point is, it would be a small matter of< programming to wrap arbitrary DCL commands in a host program that could CONNECT'd to, etc.    	-Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:08:32 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>' Subject: Re: Detaching processes on VMS ) Message-ID: <400860DE.C33EF8D0@istop.com>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------A6A2213E6ECEF573C914AE03* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit    Brian Chase wrote:K > > Since you are using DECterm, why don't you just open as many windows as # > > you need and flip between them?  >  > Ewwww!  I Another way, which I use, even on decterms (I also like to keep number of - widnows to a minimum) is to use spawn/attach.   7 this way' i can keep two processes in totally different N environments/directories and if you name the process properly, it then becomes$ very easy to switch between the two.  M similarly, on a VT terminal, you can use this to switch from a TPU session to L different DCL ones and just move from one process to another with the attachG command. (the caveat is that TPU's attach command is case sensitive for  process name).  E You just have to worry about not logging out from the parent process. & --------------A6A2213E6ECEF573C914AE03- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;   name="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit & Content-Description: Card for JF Mezei  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"    begin:vcard  n:Heshelhurst;Aaron  tel;work:+41 80 7261 1267  x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.bbc.co.uk org:BBC World News;Business & adr:;;175 High Street;London;;;England version:2.1 & email;internet:a.heselrhurst@bbc.co.uk title:Reporter x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Aaron Heshelhurst	 end:vcard   ( --------------A6A2213E6ECEF573C914AE03--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:59:03 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>' Subject: Re: Detaching processes on VMS 6 Message-ID: <1040116182842.33368A-100000@Ives.egh.com>    On 16 Jan 2004, Bart Zorn wrote:  d > Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message news:<4007DE2D.4B9A0387@sture.homeip.net>... > > J > > Yes, this is something I have missed all along in VMS. I'm pretty sureH > > it was there in RSTS. I used to use a dial-in RSTS system to processB > > yearly price updates from a supplier, and seem to recall usingK > > DETACH/ATTACH in a very similar way to the one you described earlier in H > > the thread, in particular to keep phone bills to a minimum when longF > > jobs were running, but also IIRC to recover from lost connections. > > L > > DETACH was also there as a programming statement on the CTS300 system we@ > > used at the time (Time Shared Dibol on top of RT-11). It wasL > > particularly useful in the case of reporting programs - use the terminalH > > to enter parameters, then detach and run the (often lengthy) report,C > > leaving the terminal free for other useful work. If the program I > > subsequently did a terminal display (error message or requesting more L > > disk space for a spoolfile), it would suspend itself until you issued an > > ATTACH command.  > > @ > > Extremely useful, and yes, a shame it didn't make it to VMS. > G > As far as I can remember, RSTS does not have a DETACH command, but it F > has a detach SYS() call which is used by many system programs. ThereH > also was a hack available for the terminal driver which allowed you to< > type CTRL/D while a program was running to detach the job.  ? In BASIC-PLUS, you could ctrl/C and then type CCONT to continue 	 detached.   D I don't remember if there was a DETACH in DCL in V9+.  I think thereB was a way to run a program from DCL and have it detach and log youD in again automatically while the program continued in the background@ (sort of like running something on Un*x with & at the end, whereC "sort of like" means "not entirely different from", a paraphrase of @ a vaguely remembered Douglas Adams line.  As long as we're going7 OT, I might as well tie in the British Humor thread...)   C If I ever get my PDP-11 re-assembled and running, I could look into  this.   C Doing detached jobs in ROSS/V was quite a pain.  I think what I did B was lock a job number, set up some structures in the ROSS/V globalA section, $CREPRC a detached process with a special name (the only @ way to pass information to the created process was by specifyingA its name), and then $DELPRC the original process.  Meanwhile, the A created process would $HIBER a bit, then try to $ALLOC and assign A an I/O channel to the the original process's terminal (one of the @ bits of information stashed away in the global section), looping> a few times while waiting for the original process to go away.  E This only worked on hard-wired terminals (LAT, Telnet, VT's, DECterm, C etc. didn't exist yet, and Decnet remote terminals were right out.)   @ DZ11's on our VAX 11/780's were what we had, and we were glad to
 have them.  C Once you were "detachable", you could detach, attach to other jobs, B etc. (all under ROSS/V), as much as you wanted, by $DASSGNing and D $DALLOCing the terminal, and instructing the other process to attachB to it.  You had to be careful not to type ahead and start loginout, in the interval while the terminal was free.  ? I don't think I ever updated this to use Virtual Terminals when A they came along.  I remember looking into it, but there were some @ differences in how detached processes behaved on RSTS/E vs. VMS,B that might have caused problems.  (On RSTS/E, a detached job would= continue running normally until it attempted to do I/O to its @ console terminal, when it would stall and go into "hibernation",< or HB state.  I think on VMS, it could do I/O to its virtual? terminal, and proceed (at least for writes) until it ran out of @ BIO or BYTLM quota.  There was no obvious way for the process toB determine it accessing a disconnected virtual terminal, and report; this so it would show up on a ROSS/V SYSTAT, which was very > important for RSTS/E compatibility.  (The 1st question you ask> when debugging a RSTS/E problem is "Is anything hibernating?")  = The VMS virtual terminal system is designed to hide this from ; you, which is fine, but your programs have to be written to  expect that.   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 03:05:09 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>' Subject: Re: Detaching processes on VMS 0 Message-ID: <4008A665.5A895123@sture.homeip.net>   Bart Zorn wrote: > d > Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message news:<4007DE2D.4B9A0387@sture.homeip.net>... > > J > > Yes, this is something I have missed all along in VMS. I'm pretty sureH > > it was there in RSTS. I used to use a dial-in RSTS system to processB > > yearly price updates from a supplier, and seem to recall usingK > > DETACH/ATTACH in a very similar way to the one you described earlier in H > > the thread, in particular to keep phone bills to a minimum when longF > > jobs were running, but also IIRC to recover from lost connections. > > L > > DETACH was also there as a programming statement on the CTS300 system we@ > > used at the time (Time Shared Dibol on top of RT-11). It wasL > > particularly useful in the case of reporting programs - use the terminalH > > to enter parameters, then detach and run the (often lengthy) report,C > > leaving the terminal free for other useful work. If the program I > > subsequently did a terminal display (error message or requesting more L > > disk space for a spoolfile), it would suspend itself until you issued an > > ATTACH command.  > > @ > > Extremely useful, and yes, a shame it didn't make it to VMS. > G > As far as I can remember, RSTS does not have a DETACH command, but it F > has a detach SYS() call which is used by many system programs. ThereH > also was a hack available for the terminal driver which allowed you to< > type CTRL/D while a program was running to detach the job. >   G Yes indeed, I do remember CTRL/D from somewhere during that period, but G not the precise details. Shoot, you make me feel old - it was a quarter # of a century ago, or maybe more :-)    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:43:32 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>) Subject: Re: DHCP/BOOTP/PXE under OPENVMS ) Message-ID: <40086910.3093869B@istop.com>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------106EA90550DFD3BFF52D4607* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit    Fred Kleinsorge wrote:N > Alpha.  You will only be able to make PXE _load_ requests from Itanium.  YouK > will only be able to make MOP load requests from Alpha (well, technically G > the SRM console does support BOOTP - but VMS doesn't use it as a load 
 > method).  H Will you personally be visiting all VAX customers to remove the MOP load> request capability from the hardware ? :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)& --------------106EA90550DFD3BFF52D4607- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;   name="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit & Content-Description: Card for JF Mezei  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"    begin:vcard  n:Heshelhurst;Aaron  tel;work:+41 80 7261 1267  x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.bbc.co.uk org:BBC World News;Business & adr:;;175 High Street;London;;;England version:2.1 & email;internet:a.heselrhurst@bbc.co.uk title:Reporter x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Aaron Heshelhurst	 end:vcard   ( --------------106EA90550DFD3BFF52D4607--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:03:29 -0600 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> ) Subject: Re: DHCP/BOOTP/PXE under OPENVMS 3 Message-ID: <400897F1.38B4C357@applied-synergy.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:P > > Alpha.  You will only be able to make PXE _load_ requests from Itanium.  YouM > > will only be able to make MOP load requests from Alpha (well, technically I > > the SRM console does support BOOTP - but VMS doesn't use it as a load  > > method). > J > Will you personally be visiting all VAX customers to remove the MOP load@ > request capability from the hardware ? :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)  H If you read the rest of this thread, you will find that Fred states thatF the Itanium will service MOP requests, it just will not initiate them.  A So, you should still be able to load your VAX box from an Itanium  server.   @ I was more concerned about terminal servers, print servers, etc.  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:47:03 -0800 / From: Greg Cagle <news@removethisgregcagle.com> Q Subject: Re: Faced with flagging PC sales,  HPand others are pushing aggressively / Message-ID: <100gcdelovk8dc@corp.supernews.com>   9 Bill Gunshannon said the following on 1/16/2004 10:30 AM:   2 > In article <bu8f8v$f1o$6@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>,T > 	Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  >>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>J >>>I always thought that HP-PARC stood for tht Hewlett Packard - Palo AltoD >>>Research Center.  In a report on Venture Capital I find the line:F >>>    "Few anchor companies or organizations (eg. HP-PARC, Stanford)" >>>  >> >>Wasn't that Xerox  >> >  > F > Xerox had a "PARC" as well, and consdering that Palo Alto was calledG > Silicon Valley I would imagine most of the major players at that time   > had research facilities there.  # Bill - if it's this report you saw:   8 http://www.vic-ikp.info/Venture%20Capital%20Database.pdf  @ then you misquoted it - there's a comma between "HP" and "PARC":  B "Few anchor companies or organizations (e.g. HP, PARC, Stanford)."  9 HP's research facilities have always been called HP Labs.    - Greg --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 00:05:51 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 7 Subject: Re: How many file header does indexf.sys have? ' Message-ID: <40086E4F.AD9E3BF5@aaa.com>   > I'd guess that you have close to what SHOW DEV/FULL tells you.( Or maybe FDU would give a better answer.  	 Jan-Erik.      David M Smith wrote: > > > On 16 Jan 2004 04:39:17 -0800, mb301@hotmail.com (MB) wrote: > M > >How do you find out how many file headers you have in the indexf.sys file?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 03:47:46 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>7 Subject: Re: How many file header does indexf.sys have? 0 Message-ID: <4008B061.6F236BD9@sture.homeip.net>  	 MB wrote:  > L > How do you find out how many file headers you have in the indexf.sys file? >  > INITIALIZE >  >   /HEADERS > $ >         /HEADERS=number-of-headers > D >      Specifies, for disk volumes, the number of file headers to beB >      allocated for the index file. The minimum and default valueB >      is 16. The maximum is the value set with the /MAXIMUM_FILES >      qualifier.  >  >  > Directory $1$DGA3:[000000] > @ > INDEXF.SYS;1           18280/74375     21-AUG-2001 09:41:47.93  G If you have the OpenVMS layered products disks, you can install and use H the DEFRAGMENT command to get disk statistics. AFAIR, the statistics areB available even with no license for DEFRAGMENT (aka DFO - Disk FileH Optimizer). You need to run it from a suitably privileged account, since" it needs the following privileges:  G BYPASS, CMKRNL, DETACH, EXQUOTA, NETMBX, SHARE, SYSGBL, SYSLCK, SYSPRV,  TMPMBX, and WORLD      Here's an example:   DFO>show $1$dka0 /vol   ;                    F r a g m e n t a t i o n    R e p o r t   D DISK$ALPHASYS                                            17-JAN-2004 03:35:17.67    The fragmentation index is 42.0        1 - 20.9 is excellente      21 - 40.9 is good      41 - 60.9 is fair      61 - 80.9 is poor/      81 - 100 indicates a badly fragmented diskCF Approximately 22.0 (out of 80.0 possible) is due to file fragmentation= Approximately 20.0 (out of 20.0 possible) is due to freespacea
 fragmentation      Freespace Summary:.         Total free space:       3223944 blocks1         Percentage free:             18 (rounded)E'         Total free extents:        1151C<         Maximum free extent:    1175976 blocks, LBN: 7710786<         Minimum free extent:         18 blocks, LBN: 4434480.         Average free extent:       2800 blocks.         Median free extent:          54 blocks     File Fragmentation Summary:m6         Number of files (with some allocation):  454886         Total file extents on the disk:          486109         Average number of file extents per file: 1.068633g2         Median number of file extents per file:  1   Most Fragmented File: 2         [SYS0.SYSMGR]ACCOUNTNG.DAT;7 (262 extents) DFO>  9 Note the "Number of files (with some allocation)" figure.s  E OK, that only show you the number of files currently used. To see thee% maximum files available, either do a o   $ SHOW DEV diskname/full i  . and look at the "Maximum files allowed" figure   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:59:14 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>F Subject: Re: HP rockets to No. 5 on list of top U.S. patent recipients) Message-ID: <40086CBD.DD6B0297@istop.com>r  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------1CF5960FFC1728E1FFDB9E53* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitr   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:K > HP is a bit serious about them, and with some upcomming work - who knows,x3 > maybe there will be a new spurt of them from VMS.S  G The big question is whether HP will use the VMS expertise to push VMS'sMU growth, or whether HP will see more dollars in selling off the VMS IP to 3rd parties.r  L A bit like railway accountants that figure out that they can make more moneyI in the short term by dismantly the tracks and selling the railway ties to H hardware stores and selling the steel to  steel companies for recycling.  I CP Rail acountants in canada even counted the copper in the old telegraphpI lines when they convinced the railway to dismantle so much of its networkn* (hint, they are no longer coast to coast).& --------------1CF5960FFC1728E1FFDB9E53- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;-  name="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"X Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitU& Content-Description: Card for JF Mezei  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"v   begin:vcard  n:Heshelhurst;Aarony tel;work:+41 80 7261 1267a x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.bbc.co.uk org:BBC World News;Businesse& adr:;;175 High Street;London;;;England version:2.1d& email;internet:a.heselrhurst@bbc.co.uk title:Reporter x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Aaron Heshelhurst	 end:vcardn  ( --------------1CF5960FFC1728E1FFDB9E53--   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 22:32:02 GMT0# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>pE Subject: Re: IBM announces DB2 for HP Integrity Itanium-based serverssG Message-ID: <CDZNb.69289$%wh.9407@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>8   JF Mezei wrote:n > Keith Parris wrote:SG >> IBM Data Management solutions featuring IBM DB2 UDB can be installedoH >> on HP Integrity servers running Linux, Windows Server 2003, and HP-UX >> v2."t >@ > Why isn't VMS included ? >>K   Contact Janet Perna of IBM's db lab in Toronto and Almanden, and ask her.l   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2004 12:32:18 -0800% From: whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips)r  Subject: Re: IP Address problems= Message-ID: <af0dc2ea.0401161232.6c19f62f@posting.google.com>   i chrisgaze@msn.com (Chris Gaze) wrote in message news:<57512a77.0401160102.4afe92d4@posting.google.com>...o; > AH    10.100.100.100                        172.16.26.126t7 > AH    127.0.0.1                             127.0.0.1b: > AN    172.16.26.0/25                        172.16.26.65  H It looks to me like 172.16.26.126 is not in your 172.16.26.0/25 network,  Q >  WEA0       172.16.26.65    255.255.255.128       2412292       1915754    1500y  $ Because, as your network mask shows,  ~.128/25 is like ~.0/24  ~.129/25 is like ~.1/24  T So, change your network to /24 or move your router and gateway up into your network.     DLP    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:41:23 -0500?* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>  Subject: Re: IP Address problems) Message-ID: <400884A7.52301F77@istop.com>.  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------095C5D4BE43925FA32F3E9CD* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit1   DL Phillips wrote:J > It looks to me like 172.16.26.126 is not in your 172.16.26.0/25 network,   I don't understand.i  N doesn't 172.16.26.0/25 means that the last only the first bit of the last byteK  set to 0, is part of of network, and the remaining 7 bits are "variable" ?   J If so, since 126 fits in 7 bits with the 8th bit set to 0, wouldn't 126 be part of the above network ?i  L Or is theresomething I misunderstand about the 172.16.26.0/25 nomemclature ?  S (I realise that in such a network, 127 would be reserved for the broadcast address)o& --------------095C5D4BE43925FA32F3E9CD- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;l  name="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"o Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7biti& Content-Description: Card for JF Mezei  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"2   begin:vcard  n:Heshelhurst;Aaronm tel;work:+41 80 7261 1267: x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.bbc.co.uk org:BBC World News;Businessh& adr:;;175 High Street;London;;;England version:2.1-& email;internet:a.heselrhurst@bbc.co.uk title:Reporter x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Aaron Heshelhurst	 end:vcard   ( --------------095C5D4BE43925FA32F3E9CD--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:28:57 -0500t  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>  Subject: Re: IP Address problems6 Message-ID: <1040116202631.33368F-100000@Ives.egh.com>  E Whoops.  Accidently mailed this to DLP instead of posting it.  Sorry. D ("You" below generally applies to the original poster, Chris, rather than DLP...)    " On 16 Jan 2004, DL Phillips wrote:  k > chrisgaze@msn.com (Chris Gaze) wrote in message news:<57512a77.0401160102.4afe92d4@posting.google.com>...e= > > AH    10.100.100.100                        172.16.26.126t9 > > AH    127.0.0.1                             127.0.0.1i< > > AN    172.16.26.0/25                        172.16.26.65 > J > It looks to me like 172.16.26.126 is not in your 172.16.26.0/25 network, > S > >  WEA0       172.16.26.65    255.255.255.128       2412292       1915754    1500p > & > Because, as your network mask shows, >  ~.128/25 is like ~.0/24 >  ~.129/25 is like ~.1/24 > V > So, change your network to /24 or move your router and gateway up into your network. >  >   DLPr  B Uh, no... These numbers are decimal, so 172.16.26.0/25 ranges from/ 172.16.26.0 to 172.16.26.127, so includes .126.r  3 (172.16.26.128/25 would range from .128 to .255...)0  B I don't really understand subnetting rules, and maybe some of this? is obsolete, but I was given to understand that if you subnet a @ class C network, the first and last subnets are unavailable, andB you can only use the middle ones.  I never heard an explanation of5 *why* this is true that made any sense to me, though.r  > Assuming this is true, there are many ways to slice and dice a+ class C network, but /25 isn't one of them.s   Here's a little table:  . mask  subnets  valid    hosts per  total hosts size           subnets  subnetG /24     1        1       254        254 (Normal, non-subnetted class C)n' /25     2        0       126          0r' /26     4        2        62        124 ' /27     8        6        30        180D' /28    16       14        14        196-' /29    32       30         6        1800' /30    64       62         2        124u' /31   128      126         0          0e  > (The 1st and last host number in each subnet, e.g. .0 and .255@ for a /24 network, or .0, .127, .128 and .255 for a /25 network,> are reserved for the network address and broadcast address andA so can't be used for hosts, so there are 2 fewer hosts per subnet  than you would expect.)P  = Maybe your /25 should really be a /26?  Then the host and ther< router would be the 1st and last valid host addresses in the 172.16.26.64/26 subnet.    -- l John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2004 16:02:40 -0800+ From: franco2807@hotmail.com (Ofer Frenkel)v8 Subject: Looking for a monitoring utility for OpenVMS 7+= Message-ID: <28b67149.0401161602.7d16a6fb@posting.google.com>a   Hi, 3 I need a monitoring utility for a couple of months. G It should be either a freeware or very cheap since i can't afford much.5   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jan 2004 02:32:58 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com < Subject: Re: Looking for a monitoring utility for OpenVMS 7+, Message-ID: <bua6sq02edf@enews4.newsguy.com>  , Ofer Frenkel <franco2807@hotmail.com> wrote: > Hi, 5 > I need a monitoring utility for a couple of months. I > It should be either a freeware or very cheap since i can't afford much.u  H What are you trying to monitor?  Try "MONITOR ALL" or "MONITOR CLUSTER".   		Zane   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 03:56:07 GMTt> From: Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com>< Subject: Re: Looking for a monitoring utility for OpenVMS 7+; Message-ID: <rn2Ob.8448$835.841@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>    healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:  . > Ofer Frenkel <franco2807@hotmail.com> wrote: >  >>Hi, 5 >>I need a monitoring utility for a couple of months. I >>It should be either a freeware or very cheap since i can't afford much.i >  > J > What are you trying to monitor?  Try "MONITOR ALL" or "MONITOR CLUSTER". >  > 		Zane     google search   openvms t4  C Very cool stuff!! put's the output into CSV format in ZIP files to   conserve space...s  D see http://www.firstdbasource.com/t4/t4chart.php for a capabilities 0 demo. You can download this from the HP website.   Michael Austin.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:30:14 GMTu( From: "konabear" <maurert@ameritech.net>0 Subject: Re: Minimum Privs for Changing PasswordA Message-ID: <aZWNb.30469$P%1.24874821@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>o  I All the is needed to modify a password using authorize is write access togJ SYSUAF.DAT.  That's it.  So an ACL to allow a user write access means they need no privs.  J HOWEVER once write access is granted to SYSUAF, more than passwords can beI changed.  New users and be added, old ones removed, privileges granted toyH the very nonpriv'd account that the ACL was added for.  So the ACL route+ isn't any more secure than granting SYSPRV.   H BTW, one could also give the nonpriv'd user's account a UIC group numberI less than Octal 10.  So the account will have no privileges.  However anymG process with a group number less than Octal 10 has equivalent of SYSPRV  granted.   Todd4 "Rick Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> wrote in message+ news:HrLBDu.DGq@sysadm.physics.uiowa.edu...sJ > This is a fundamental question and I am embarassed to have to ask, but I > am in a hurry. :)2 >MJ > What minimum privs would a user need to be able to change someone else's > password via Authorize?0 >qG > Does anyone have any quick suggestions on a method for this that doeseE > not need to elevate a low user to SYSPRV (or such)?  Something thats% > could be up and running right away?p >a	 > Thanks!e > rick >l   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2004 14:18:27 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)*0 Subject: Re: Minimum Privs for Changing Password3 Message-ID: <hkIDec56Qrnv@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <HrLBDu.DGq@sysadm.physics.uiowa.edu>, Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes:tJ > This is a fundamental question and I am embarassed to have to ask, but I > am in a hurry. :)M  % Being in a hurry is bad for security.d  G > Does anyone have any quick suggestions on a method for this that does 5 > not need to elevate a low user to SYSPRV (or such)?*  G Any such scheme would violate the VMS Trusted Computing Base, since the-D ability to write to SYSUAF effectively gives control of the machine.  A Someone could write something to perturb the TCB in that fashion,SD but you have not given nearly enough information to specify the real@ problem you are trying to solve.  Consider the following attack:  E 	1. You give me magic powers to change passwords but do nothing else.:  . 	2. I change the password for username SYSTEM.  ' 	3. I log in as SYSTEM and wreak havoc.X  < Before implementing such a scheme, you need an initial step:  ( 	0. Make sure your resume is up to date.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 03:50:45 +0100c* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>0 Subject: Re: Minimum Privs for Changing Password0 Message-ID: <4008B115.1FC7399E@sture.homeip.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > ] > In article <HrLBDu.DGq@sysadm.physics.uiowa.edu>, Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes:=L > > This is a fundamental question and I am embarassed to have to ask, but I > > am in a hurry. :)  > ' > Being in a hurry is bad for security.; > I > > Does anyone have any quick suggestions on a method for this that doeso7 > > not need to elevate a low user to SYSPRV (or such)?w > I > Any such scheme would violate the VMS Trusted Computing Base, since thedF > ability to write to SYSUAF effectively gives control of the machine. > C > Someone could write something to perturb the TCB in that fashion,7F > but you have not given nearly enough information to specify the realB > problem you are trying to solve.  Consider the following attack: > N >         1. You give me magic powers to change passwords but do nothing else. > 7 >         2. I change the password for username SYSTEM.e > 0 >         3. I log in as SYSTEM and wreak havoc. > > > Before implementing such a scheme, you need an initial step: > 1 >         0. Make sure your resume is up to date. 1           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^    I simply love that :-)   -- a
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:40:17 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>9 Subject: Re: Mounting identically labelled disks (OVMS73)e) Message-ID: <4008684D.1FBB59D9@istop.com>u  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------EBA3CFF00B76C5E3EEA1C23E* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitr   News Reader wrote:L > $ ! change the label of the privately mounted backup disk and remount /sys) > $ set volume /label:REGNUM_BACK2 dad20:  > $ umount DAD$REGNUM_BACKUP2"/ > $ bind /system /write /connect REGNUM_BACKUP2eE > %LADCP-I-CONNAVAIL, successful connection to service REGNUM_BACKUP2fK > %LADCP-I-BIND, service bound to logical unit DAD$REGNUM_BACKUP2 (_DAD22:)t  N Not sure what umount does. The correct command is "dismount". Also, if you areJ in a cluster and the drive has been mounted by other nodes, you need to doT DISMOUNT/CLUSTER to make sure the cluster has completely forgotten about that drive.  B > $ mount /noassist /system /write DAD$REGNUM_BACKUP2 REGNUM_BACK23 > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, REGNUM_BACK2 mounted on _DAD22:e  I You should try SHOW DEV DAD22:/FULL at this point. This will provide muchyG information on what VMS thinks it is. It should be owned by SYSTEM, ande protection should be:l   S:RWPL O:RWPL G:R W:  J But based on the information you provided after, it looks like the problemX isn't with the VMS file system or VMS devices, but rather the container file system/NFS.  G And yes, the error message from the ANALYSE/CONTAINER/REPAIR is strange*C considering it supposed to fix the problem it is complaining about.n  K Have you considered moving teh container system back to the original drive,mJ create an empty one on the new drive, map both to some unix client and use= unix commands to copy from the old container to the new one ?     K Seems that the design of the container file system is extremely tied to thecM VMS device and file system (the doc mentions that it is tied to file-id so if N you restore from backup without /IMAGE, the restored files won't have the same@ IDs, but that is *supposed* to be fixed by ana/container/repair.& --------------EBA3CFF00B76C5E3EEA1C23E- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;i  name="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitr& Content-Description: Card for JF Mezei  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf".   begin:vcard  n:Heshelhurst;Aaron- tel;work:+41 80 7261 1267- x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.bbc.co.uk org:BBC World News;Business2& adr:;;175 High Street;London;;;England version:2.1m& email;internet:a.heselrhurst@bbc.co.uk title:Reporter x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Aaron Heshelhurst	 end:vcard   ( --------------EBA3CFF00B76C5E3EEA1C23E--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:46:52 -0500l* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>9 Subject: Re: Mounting identically labelled disks (OVMS73) ) Message-ID: <400869D7.F94F7B2D@istop.com>t  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------80412D693F06A35E4CC153E9* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bito   Bob Koehler wrote:E >    Why not mount the disk the way you had it and copy the files outa/ >    of the container using the provided tools?a  N I have not seen any tools provided on VMS to manage unix files entirely within the unix realm.eN So, from VMS, the OP would have to EXPRT his unix file system in the containerN file system to a VMS filesystem, losing UNIX attributes, possibly file renamedK due to file naming convention differences etc, and then recreate a new one.a  N The container file system is a ugly impersonation of ALLIN1. It has a documentM database with the real unix file name and attributes that point to random VMSx file names (and file ID).s& --------------80412D693F06A35E4CC153E9- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;r  name="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"l Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitr& Content-Description: Card for JF Mezei  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"n   begin:vcard  n:Heshelhurst;Aaron  tel;work:+41 80 7261 1267i x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.bbc.co.uk org:BBC World News;Businessc& adr:;;175 High Street;London;;;England version:2.1 & email;internet:a.heselrhurst@bbc.co.uk title:Reporter x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Aaron Heshelhurst	 end:vcardM  ( --------------80412D693F06A35E4CC153E9--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:29:01 -0500E* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>9 Subject: Re: Mounting identically labelled disks (OVMS73)h) Message-ID: <400881C2.3DA6302B@istop.com>,  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------8CE6D572704F95BC0841D2B3* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitu   News Reader wrote:@ > The problem is that the old label is recorded in the containerB > and tcpip analyze /repair just baulks at the discrepancy without@ > actually fixing it.  You had a patch for _that_ under VMS 4.0?  7 Do  you mean UCX 4.0 ? (precursor to TCPIP Services ?) i  K Does your documentation apply to 4.0 ? Or are you looking at the doc on ther VMS web site ?  N UCX has moved a LOT since UCX 4.0, so it is very possible that your version of^ UCX doesn't support the rebuilding of container files on a new disk with ANA CONTAINER/REPAIR.& --------------8CE6D572704F95BC0841D2B3- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;i  name="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"f Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7biti& Content-Description: Card for JF Mezei  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"f   begin:vcard  n:Heshelhurst;Aarono tel;work:+41 80 7261 12676 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.bbc.co.uk org:BBC World News;Businesss& adr:;;175 High Street;London;;;England version:2.1.& email;internet:a.heselrhurst@bbc.co.uk title:Reporter x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Aaron Heshelhurst	 end:vcardr  ( --------------8CE6D572704F95BC0841D2B3--   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2004 14:07:23 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)j& Subject: Re: Mozilla on Alpha question3 Message-ID: <y77N3L676oBF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   P In article <bu8jgu$tej$1@pcls4.std.com>, bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) writes:5 > In article <f+VP$k2PG9by@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 > Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:4 >> In article <OmHNb.19272$Eq.14143@clgrps12>, Alder' >> <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes:o >> > dittmer@attg.net wrote::t > : >> >> I am having difficulty getting Mozilla v 1.4 to run.Q >> >> It apprears to have installed properly, but when I invoke @mozilla, it saysiE >> >> running mozilla.bin, and then comes back to the command prompt., >> > sA >> > You're invoking it by running the COM file provided, right ?  >> > s' >> > $ @SYS$COMMON:[MOZILLA]MOZILLA.COMs >> e+ >> That sounds like a poor engineering job.t >>  , >> It ought to run as a regular DCL command. > C > If you mean to say that it shouldn't be wrapped in a DCL script, tD > I'd disagree.  Though I haven't actually seen the contents of the B > MOZILLA.COM script itself, I'm guessing it echoes the purpose ofG > mozilla Bourne shell wrapper script used on Unix systems.  The scriptrC > does housekeeping in terms of setting up the environment to tell HD > the mozilla binary where to find its plugins, fonts, and the JVM. E > It also figures out whether you're currently running an instance ofCC > mozilla, so if you invoke the command a second time, it knows to y> > open a new browser window using the already running process.  ? All of those things can be done from within an executable imageu8 (presuming the previously running image is cooperative).  @ > Given all the subtle and not-so-subtle variations between the B > supported platforms (non-Unix included), it's simpler to do this< > housekeeping in small platform specific wrapper scripts.    D I am interested in what is reasonable for the VMS end user, not whatA makes the developer's life easier.  This is the same as any other" piece of software.  N The fact that something was ported from Unix is no excuse for it being shoddy.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:57:22 +0000 (UTC)f% From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase)r& Subject: Re: Mozilla on Alpha question( Message-ID: <bu9tp2$613$1@pcls4.std.com>  3 In article <y77N3L676oBF@eisner.encompasserve.org>, . Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:+ > In article <bu8jgu$tej$1@pcls4.std.com>,  ) > bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) writes:c  E > > If you mean to say that it shouldn't be wrapped in a DCL script, lF > > I'd disagree.  Though I haven't actually seen the contents of the D > > MOZILLA.COM script itself, I'm guessing it echoes the purpose ofI > > mozilla Bourne shell wrapper script used on Unix systems.  The scriptnE > > does housekeeping in terms of setting up the environment to tell aF > > the mozilla binary where to find its plugins, fonts, and the JVM. G > > It also figures out whether you're currently running an instance of E > > mozilla, so if you invoke the command a second time, it knows to a@ > > open a new browser window using the already running process. > A > All of those things can be done from within an executable imageS: > (presuming the previously running image is cooperative).  C True, but I really don't see why separating these platform specificn7 environment bits out from the exe is such a bad thing. f  B > > Given all the subtle and not-so-subtle variations between the D > > supported platforms (non-Unix included), it's simpler to do this> > > housekeeping in small platform specific wrapper scripts.   > F > I am interested in what is reasonable for the VMS end user, not whatC > makes the developer's life easier.  This is the same as any othere > piece of software.  @ Well, it is /free/ afterall which makes it rather different fromE commercial software, and Mozilla does work.  I'm a bit more inclined  C to let the developers do whatever they want, when they're providingoB me with a very functional and useful piece of software at no cost.  H > The fact that something was ported from Unix is no excuse for it being	 > shoddy.n  B Ouch.  So tell me, exactly what web browser would you be using if " Mozilla hadn't been ported to VMS?  n -brian.  --  F --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----5                    Do not fold, mutilate, or spindle.t   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2004 21:02:43 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) & Subject: Re: Mozilla on Alpha question3 Message-ID: <v89gV8rSpVLW@eisner.encompasserve.org>R  P In article <bu9tp2$613$1@pcls4.std.com>, bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) writes:5 > In article <y77N3L676oBF@eisner.encompasserve.org>,.0 > Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:, >> In article <bu8jgu$tej$1@pcls4.std.com>, * >> bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) writes: > F >> > If you mean to say that it shouldn't be wrapped in a DCL script, G >> > I'd disagree.  Though I haven't actually seen the contents of the gE >> > MOZILLA.COM script itself, I'm guessing it echoes the purpose ofiJ >> > mozilla Bourne shell wrapper script used on Unix systems.  The scriptF >> > does housekeeping in terms of setting up the environment to tell G >> > the mozilla binary where to find its plugins, fonts, and the JVM. TH >> > It also figures out whether you're currently running an instance ofF >> > mozilla, so if you invoke the command a second time, it knows to A >> > open a new browser window using the already running process.e >> gB >> All of those things can be done from within an executable image; >> (presuming the previously running image is cooperative).r > E > True, but I really don't see why separating these platform specificp9 > environment bits out from the exe is such a bad thing.    ? I understand that to some people the difference may not matter. 8 You should understand that to some of us it does matter.  C >> > Given all the subtle and not-so-subtle variations between the mE >> > supported platforms (non-Unix included), it's simpler to do thish? >> > housekeeping in small platform specific wrapper scripts.  d >>  G >> I am interested in what is reasonable for the VMS end user, not whataD >> makes the developer's life easier.  This is the same as any other >> piece of software.a > B > Well, it is /free/ afterall which makes it rather different from > commercial software,  C You are making a good argument for avoiding "free" software if that. is the attitude of proponents.  I >> The fact that something was ported from Unix is no excuse for it beingt
 >> shoddy. > D > Ouch.  So tell me, exactly what web browser would you be using if $ > Mozilla hadn't been ported to VMS?  3 One that had been ported in a VMS-standard fashion.l  > Consider web servers, where Purveyor was driven off the market: because the competition was "free".  Now we learn that the< newest Apache cannot even handle variable length record text8 files.  _That_ illustrates the value of "free" software.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 06:56:03 +0000 (UTC)a- From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase):& Subject: Re: Mozilla on Alpha question( Message-ID: <buama3$v3f$1@pcls4.std.com>  3 In article <v89gV8rSpVLW@eisner.encompasserve.org>,r. Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:R > In article <bu9tp2$613$1@pcls4.std.com>, bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) writes:7 > > In article <y77N3L676oBF@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 2 > > Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:  G > > True, but I really don't see why separating these platform specific:; > > environment bits out from the exe is such a bad thing.   > A > I understand that to some people the difference may not matter.E: > You should understand that to some of us it does matter.  = In what way, and to what quantifiable extent, does the chosensC implementation negatively affect your system and your productivity?e  J > > > I am interested in what is reasonable for the VMS end user, not whatG > > > makes the developer's life easier.  This is the same as any othera > > > piece of software. > > D > > Well, it is /free/ afterall which makes it rather different fromI > > commercial software, and Mozilla does work.  I'm a bit more inclined sG > > to let the developers do whatever they want, when they're providingtF > > me with a very functional and useful piece of software at no cost. >:E > You are making a good argument for avoiding "free" software if thatd  > is the attitude of proponents.  F My experience has been that the vast majority of the developers behindF free software are willing to accomodate their end users.  My point is H that /nobody/ has the /right/ to expect anything more of the developers C than the developers have offered.  It certainly doesn't hurt to askiE (politely) and to present well reasoned arguments backing your views.rG Beyond that, you've always got the source and at least have the option -4 to make the software work the way you want yourself.  G In the case of commercial software, it's true that you've got leverage tJ as a paying customer.  But even then, unless you're a significant customerH or there are a lot of little customers with the same problem, your moneyJ may not do you any good at all.  What recourse do you have when commercialF software vendors ignore your feature requests and bug reports?  Zilch.  I I'm certainly not arguing that free software is the answer to everything.-H If there's a commercial alternative that meets your requirements, and itA makes sense to pay for it, by all means spend your money on it.  a  F > > Ouch.  So tell me, exactly what web browser would you be using if & > > Mozilla hadn't been ported to VMS? > 5 > One that had been ported in a VMS-standard fashion.   9 What, you mean that version of Mosaic from the mid-1990s?   @ > Consider web servers, where Purveyor was driven off the market' > because the competition was "free".  %  J The competition being free isn't reason enough for a commercial product toE be driven out.  The free software also has to be "good enough" that a,H significant number of people decide it meets their requirements.  If allC the free alternatives are as awful as you're saying, the commerical-$ offerings should be doing just fine.  H > Now we learn that the newest Apache cannot even handle variable length > record text files.    E There's a little ambiguity here.  Did the previous versions of Apache5B support variable length record text files, or have they never beenF supported?  If it did support them, I'd tend to believe that it's not F that Apache can't handle variable length record text files, but ratherG that the person who did the VMS port neglected to handle them properly.   2 > _That_ illustrates the value of "free" software.  , Well, you're also free to not use any of it.   -brian.S -- <F --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----5                    Do not fold, mutilate, or spindle..   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2004 10:50:02 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)< Subject: Re: Non-WS Process Quotas not in Performance Manual= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0401161050.47cb55e2@posting.google.com>e  b Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message news:<40066C5E.32112551@sture.homeip.net>... > Paul Repacholi wrote:h > > 9 > > "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:: > > I > > > It was a long time ago but I believe the VMS V3.7 supplied a lot of I > > > the underpinnings for CI clusters like support for HSCs and the CI.h > > > This was in 1984 > > I > > 3.7 was to a good degree a cluster of one. Used $ENQ/$DEQ etc. 3.4 onrA > > had MSCP disk support AIR, forget when the PA driver apeared.o > > J > > > VMS V4.0, if I recall correctly, was the first release that actuallyE > > > allowed you to build a cluster.  Not sure when VMS V4.0 hit theME > > > streets but I think 1985 would be a close guess.  I didn't have K > > > software support at the time and the release after V3.6  was, for me,  > > > V4.4.   8 [more discussion about birthdate of VMSclusters snipped]     My VMS screen saver (see    7     http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/25th/index.html)    * says "1983 / Open VMSclusters Announced".      Alan E. Feldmana   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 03:57:27 +0100i* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>< Subject: Re: Non-WS Process Quotas not in Performance Manual0 Message-ID: <4008B2A7.6995DC7F@sture.homeip.net>   Alan E. Feldman wrote: > d > Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message news:<40066C5E.32112551@sture.homeip.net>... > > Paul Repacholi wrote:: > > >6; > > > "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:0 > > > K > > > > It was a long time ago but I believe the VMS V3.7 supplied a lot of K > > > > the underpinnings for CI clusters like support for HSCs and the CI.o > > > > This was in 1984 > > >oK > > > 3.7 was to a good degree a cluster of one. Used $ENQ/$DEQ etc. 3.4 oneC > > > had MSCP disk support AIR, forget when the PA driver apeared.  > > >1L > > > > VMS V4.0, if I recall correctly, was the first release that actuallyG > > > > allowed you to build a cluster.  Not sure when VMS V4.0 hit theKG > > > > streets but I think 1985 would be a close guess.  I didn't haveiM > > > > software support at the time and the release after V3.6  was, for me, 
 > > > > V4.4.l > : > [more discussion about birthdate of VMSclusters snipped] >  > My VMS screen saver (see > 8 >     http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/25th/index.html) > + > says "1983 / Open VMSclusters Announced".  >   D Yes. IIRC I attended the first presentation in France on the subject* circa June 1983. It was indeed impressive.   -- -
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:19:21 -0700r( From: Lorin Ricker <lorin@locktrack.com>O Subject: Re: Oracle Rdb on GS1280 with 7.3-2 exceeds 1 million transactions per 8 Message-ID: <oc2h0059uvmq2u5f087e9tormdnplm99gb@4ax.com>  4 On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:34:50 -0700, Norman Lastovica$ <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> wrote:F >> There's a common, real-world need out there... it's probably rarelyF >> been vocalized very well, but here's one thread that's trying to do: >> so.  Hope I've helped.  Oracle, HP, do you hear us yet? >a4 >	while I'm sure that it is personally satisfying to8 >vent in public forums, if you want stuff to happen, you7 >really ought to get in touch with the vendor directly. > >And if you don't get the answer that you need, then escalate.  A Norman:  <sigh> We've tried, believe me.  As Rob accurately noted6F above, we *are* "nickle/dime stuff", that is, a small customer without# much perceptible clout, apparently.n  = Please don't take this personnally, Norman, and no offense ist9 intended... but your employer (like other large technicalfC corporations) just doesn't seem to take our constructively-intended D input very seriously... We were actually "blown off" rather abruptlyD and rudely.  Certainly, no one at Oracle said "Well, we'll take thatE under advisement in Rdb Engineering", which is all I'd ask.  Instead,rE we got a curt "We know best... this is the way it's gonna be" kind of 	 response.-  F And no, we don't have the resources to attend large Oracle conferencesA or other venues where we'd try to get our case heard -- hence, weeD "vent in public forums", if only to get others to maybe rally to our cause, if it indeed has merit.  E Of course, the subject matter of this whole thread (timezone support,t: DateSim, and our discussions of it all with Oracle and VMSF Engineering) all actually transpired back in 1999-2000 (IIRC), so it's@ a stale topic as far as "official requests through channels" areF concerned, and I'm rather surprised to see the whole thing resurrected here.   : Yet, if I can at least explain our perspective rationally,C constructively and convincingly in this, a public forum, then maybe.C others with more clout than us small-fry businesses *might* take upG6 the topic and cause with more influence than I've got.  A My "venting" is *not* intended in any way to embarass, harrass or D otherwise annoy your employer or any other large corporation... it'sD more a scream of "Will somebody please take us seriously?!!!", a cryF of frustration and for help.  Does that help explain my post?  Thanks!   -- Lorin   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:31:45 -0700 ( From: Lorin Ricker <lorin@locktrack.com>O Subject: Re: Oracle Rdb on GS1280 with 7.3-2 exceeds 1 million transactions pero8 Message-ID: <8d3h001nulr5c2hgvs0u56t7j6nvq8oala@4ax.com>  @ On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:05:59 GMT, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU. ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote:M >Think this through.  If Rdb used the system services to get time, that wouldpI >make zero impact on JSTARS (even if JSTARS used Rdb).  It's to nobody's DL >benefit to make DATESIM work erratically, not even to the benefit of peopleH >who don't use it.  (It wouldn't have any impact on people who want the ; >system time to be the same for all users, in other words.)a >-- Alan  E My "requirements analysis" point is simply that in *some* applicationyF domains, the users (who are the point of the whole thing) think solelyE and exclusively in *local time*, and that system time, whether UTC orwA another specific timezone, is irrelevant, or worse, confusing, tog them.n  A It'd just be nice if the OS and DBMS would and could cooperate ton; provide a consistent, uniform set of time services that theeE application developer could rely on to provide an appropriate view ofd@ time to the users.  The availability of such time services wouldD render the whole argument of "system time *versus* local time" moot,2 since the one is just a special case of the other.  C In my dream-world, VMS Engineering would adopt the above functional B requirement and provide user-/process-localized time services as a@ native set of VMS services (RTL).  Sewell's DateSim package is aF pathfinder implementation, but I'm sure that Engineering would come up@ with a more natural, native implementation architecture, and I'd? likely be happy with whatever form they'd provide, presuming it ' addresses the application domain needs.J  E Then, the only other obstacle is to get Oracle's Rdb Engineering team1B to abandon their insistence on grabbing time directly from the VMS? quadword cell, and to use these new VMS time services for *all*s; application-/database-visible Rdb/SQL time functions (e.g.,1A current_timestamp, et al).  I guess I'd not care if, for internalwD transaction ordering and other purposes, they continued to "grab theF quadword for performance reasons", as long as the functions upon whichE applications are built follow the rules and use the consistent set of. localizable time services.   Perhaps I dream too much... ;-)t   -- Lorin   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:33:59 -0700.( From: Lorin Ricker <lorin@locktrack.com>O Subject: Re: Oracle Rdb on GS1280 with 7.3-2 exceeds 1 million transactions pers8 Message-ID: <854h00lef831e95ks277mrjkaqieu1nh4p@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 05:42:15 -0500, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>. wrote:H >While that may certainly have been true in the past, one of the popularD >solutions to address high availability requirements associated withH >large server consolidation efforts these days (white hot btw) is to useE >cluster technologies. In large consolidation efforts, it is actuallyeG >fairly common to be collapsing servers from different timezones into a 0 >centralized (and sometimes multi-site) cluster.  B Um, yes, Kerry gets it!  There are numerous economics of scale and: consolidation which recommend and/or drive this.  -- Lorin   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:41:39 -0700s( From: Lorin Ricker <lorin@locktrack.com>O Subject: Re: Oracle Rdb on GS1280 with 7.3-2 exceeds 1 million transactions per 8 Message-ID: <4a4h00t9pj0vf2mmfb55mjd77k5hrvnu20@4ax.com>  F On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:53:45 -0600, Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote:  P >And before anybody brings up performance, we aren't talking about *all* uses ofI >system time by oracle/rdb, just those that are displayed to the user.  I H >understand that there are a lot of internal time stamps during databaseM >operations.  We don't care about those; they can continue to access the time1M >quadword.  We just want the current_timestamp field (and perhaps transactionaO >start time, which can apparently be interrogated by the user) to go though the  >system services.p8 >This is ALL IT WOULD TAKE to make timezone mode work.   >Wayne  A Yes, my point exactly (see previous posting).  And, although with E today's hardware, I rarely buy the argument about "it's gotta be this D way (circumvent system services and go straight to the quadword) for@ performance purposes", I *do* understand that various *internal*E database timestamps need to be utterly consistent and monolithic, andgD user-localized timezones are not only irrelevant for these purposes,* but are just plain wrong for that context.  B It's the user- & application-visible time values (of which the SQLE built-in function current_timestamp is only an example) which need to8F use localizable time services, whether native to VMS or provided by an? add-in package like DateSim (which is, indeed, a rather eleganto9 solution in leiu of VMS Engineering's potential efforts).    -- Lorin   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:52:43 -0700e( From: Lorin Ricker <lorin@locktrack.com>O Subject: Re: Oracle Rdb on GS1280 with 7.3-2 exceeds 1 million transactions per	8 Message-ID: <9n4h005n0pj5mqpeqlk65144er65nrp6vm@4ax.com>  F On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:02:33 -0600, Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote:@ >Another thing to keep in mind is the particular users involved.M >Technical people would probably have no difficulty in understanding utc or a.K >different timezone for the server.  Lorin's correction officers might be a  >different story.t >Wayne  D It's even more fundamental than that... In my particular applicationF domain, it's a *legal* issue.  It's not so much that the CO's couldn'tC understand time in another TZ (they can't, but that's not the pointcF here) --> It's the judge, the jury, the lawyers, the defendant(s), theE victim(s), the legistators, the sheriff and all the other police, the/B press, and the public who must comprehend the time values involvedD (when did the crime occur? when was it reported? when was the inmateD booked? how much time has he served, pretrial, sentenced, etc.? when must he be released? ...etc.).  E *None* of these folks is going to think at all in terms of system/UTCs1 time... it's all local timezone!  Non-negotiable.d  F The beauty of our application deployment is that we can use one set ofC servers to provide application and data services to multiple jails, ? sites, and jurisdictions spread across the country and multipleoF timezones.  Users in these multiple jurisdictions can even share (withD strict controls) inmate/incarceration/law-enforcement data with eachD other (and in this case, they're *not* confused about seeing anotherC jail's "booking date/time" in say, CST, when they're in PST -- it'sr? just someone else's "local time").  But this works only if theyo@ each/all see "local time" for all relevant application date/time values.f  	  -- Lorinn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:19:46 -0600L( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>O Subject: Re: Oracle Rdb on GS1280 with 7.3-2 exceeds 1 million transactions per 0 Message-ID: <00A2BFFE.EDF29DF2.33@tachysoft.com>  ) >From: Lorin Ricker <lorin@locktrack.com>a >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsP >Subject: Re: Oracle Rdb on GS1280 with 7.3-2 exceeds 1 million transactions per       >vB >Norman:  <sigh> We've tried, believe me.  As Rob accurately notedG >above, we *are* "nickle/dime stuff", that is, a small customer without-$ >much perceptible clout, apparently. >7> >Please don't take this personnally, Norman, and no offense is: >intended... but your employer (like other large technicalD >corporations) just doesn't seem to take our constructively-intendedE >input very seriously... We were actually "blown off" rather abruptly E >and rudely.  Certainly, no one at Oracle said "Well, we'll take thatiF >under advisement in Rdb Engineering", which is all I'd ask.  Instead,F >we got a curt "We know best... this is the way it's gonna be" kind of
 >response. >oG >And no, we don't have the resources to attend large Oracle conferencessB >or other venues where we'd try to get our case heard -- hence, weE >"vent in public forums", if only to get others to maybe rally to ourr >cause, if it indeed has merit.u >oF >Of course, the subject matter of this whole thread (timezone support,; >DateSim, and our discussions of it all with Oracle and VMS1@ >Engineering) all actually transpired back in 1999-2000 (IIRC),      April 2001.e    L My knowledge of the events consists of an email containing the first part of! the dialogue in the oracle forum.y  O Your initial post incorrectly referred to the datesim intercept as "user mode",-M so the oracle guy got off on a tanget about that, saying that rdb operates in<M exec mode, so a user mode intercept wouldn't help.  Then he said "hundreds ofs6 instructions" were saved by the system service bypass.  / I sent you a mail after that with my response: .  O 1.  "user mode" is incorrect.  Datesim intercepts the system service period, som= it works in all access modes, including exec and even kernel.m  E 2.  on alpha, the sys$gettim system service contains 38 alpha machineoO instructions.  This of course does not include the call instruction to activatedN it, but it does include the return.   Since there are conditional branches, itJ is impossible to execute all of these instructions in a given call, so theA actual run time count of executed instructions is *less* than 38.     L I assumed you would return to the forum with this new information and thingsL would continue from there, but I was not kept in the loop on the rest of the9 dialogue.  So I don't know what happened after the above.g   Wayne O ===============================================================================fN Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   :O ===============================================================================^B Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?", 	Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 22:47:20 GMT.# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>l) Subject: Re: Rally VAX to Alpha Migration0H Message-ID: <YRZNb.69307$%wh.29070@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:? >> ssshhhhh!!! How else will 3rd party OVMS application vendorso? >> stay afloat if they don't charge big maintenance fees? Theree< >> certainly isn't the volume in the VMS market for a lot of> >> them to justify staying in it if their maintenance fees are@ >> cut in half --- landlords don't cut their rent, and employees@ >> don't get paid less, and utility companies don't take pity onE >> the OVMS app vendor just because HP doesn't expand the VMS market.  >> >> >  >o > John,a >m> > Are you hinting we need to improve the marketing of OpenVMS? >a > :-)r     Doh!!!  ;-)s   Where's my bottle of Duff's?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:21:39 -0500o* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: The Inquirer_) Message-ID: <40088009.B44831B6@istop.com>E  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------A5C7FCE4E55F83DDBFAD106D* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitd  9 "peter.watkinson1@ ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson)" wrote: F > Now go to the url with whatever web browser your using. Now use view? > source. You can see the HTML but can you see the embedded ASPeD > (Vbscript, javascript, perlscript or whatever) No.  This is closed	 > source.O    M One must think of HTML as nothing more than glorified VT100 escape sequences.iM Your terminal (aka browser) can display the html source that has been sent togI you or it can execute it to provide the intended display. This is totallyl( unrelated to HOW the HTML was generated.  K The web browser has abdolutely no idea nor any expectation of access to thefL code on the server which generated the HTML.  The tools can be open sources,# proprietary or simple text editors. & --------------A5C7FCE4E55F83DDBFAD106D- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;b  name="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"i Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit-& Content-Description: Card for JF Mezei  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"v   begin:vcard  n:Heshelhurst;Aaronr tel;work:+41 80 7261 1267  x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.bbc.co.uk org:BBC World News;Businessf& adr:;;175 High Street;London;;;England version:2.11& email;internet:a.heselrhurst@bbc.co.uk title:Reporter x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Aaron Heshelhurst	 end:vcardh  ( --------------A5C7FCE4E55F83DDBFAD106D--   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 03:23:54 +0100r* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> Subject: Re: The Inquirer / Message-ID: <4008AACA.7426620@sture.homeip.net>   7 peter.watkinson1@ ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson) wrote:s > 9 > On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:15:09 +0100, "Winfried Bergmann"S > <dummy@empuron.com> wrote: >  > >tI > >"peter.watkinson1@ ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson)" <nospam> schrieb im1> > >Newsbeitrag news:4007fa06.294203@news.cable.ntlworld.com...9 > >> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:58:07 -0600, "Craig A. Berry" + > >> <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> wrote:a > >>< > >> >In article <4007082f.5708625@news.cable.ntlworld.com>,E > >> > peter.watkinson1@<nospam>ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson) wrote:e > >> >< > >> >> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:31:54 -0600, "Craig A. Berry". > >> >> <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> wrote: > >> >>o? > >> >> >In article <4006feaf.3276015@news.cable.ntlworld.com>, H > >> >> > peter.watkinson1@<nospam>ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson) wrote:	 > >> >> >oJ > >> >> >>> Accordingly if it changed to GNU/Linux serers and used PHP can	 > >anyone - > >> >> >> tell me why PHP isn't Open source?n	 > >> >> >  > >> >> >No, because it is:)	 > >> >> >-$ > >> >> >http://www.php.net/license/ > >> >>e > >> >>d) > >> >> Tell me this is HTML Open source?t > >> >K > >> >Um, *what's* your question?  You asked why the software package knowntI > >> >as PHP is not open source.  I pointed out that it is, in fact, openrH > >> >source and gave a reference to the license that dictates the termsI > >> >under which the source code may be used.  That's what "open source"rL > >> >generally means: the source code may be used, redistributed, modified,K > >> >or all of the above depending on the terms of the particular license.-G > >> >In your new question, I don't know what "this" refers to (the PHP D > >> >package, the PHP license, the web page on which the license isJ > >> >described?), and I have no idea what you mean by "HTML Open source". > >> > >> > >>J > >> If you go to any web page written in HTML then using your browser you% > >> can view the source of the HTML.y > >>J > >> Now go to a page written in PHP can you view the source? Can you F**K > >>1 > >> Not very open source is this PHP then is it?n > >c > >Is that a joke? If not ...rJ > >I could write a compiler for an arbitrary language and put this to openO > >source. If you look at the binary for the target machine, compiled with thatSI > >"open source" tool, could you see the source of your code? I guess youtO > >didn't get the idea behind the term "open source". Check www.opensource.org.e > >s > >  >   > Maybe I should make it simpler > H > write a web page in ASP (Active Server Pages) put it on a Microsoft OSE > web server using IIS (Internet Information Server) 4/5 or whatever.h > F > Now go to the url with whatever web browser your using. Now use view? > source. You can see the HTML but can you see the embedded ASP:D > (Vbscript, javascript, perlscript or whatever) No.  This is closedE > source. Likewise the Microsoft Operating system, web server etc aret > closed source. > F > Now accordingly why if PHP is "Open Source" why can't I view the WebF > page source code with my web browser - not even Mozilla on what everB > flavour OS you like. Still doesn't sound very open source to me. > D > It's tough enough being a programmer at the moment anyway I'd much9 > rather get paid for just copying someone elses code ;-)l >   H Umm. Knowing that www.openvms.org is a PHP site, I visited it today, andF even using my ancient Netscape V3.03 on VMS, I could see whatever HTML was generated for a given page.   E Are you really asking that if someone writes dynamic pages using DCL,KG COBOL, Ada, Perl or whatever, that you also want to see the source code2 of those programs?  * You are  definitely not going to see that.  % Or did I misunderstand your question?i   -- y
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:05:27 -0800I0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>I Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemsi' Message-ID: <4007d388$1@cpns1.saic.com>i   Bob Koehler wrote:\ > In article <40055a04$1@cpns1.saic.com>, Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> writes: > K >>I've never looked for Multinet issues in CERT so I'll have to table this o* >>until I have a little time for research. >  > H >    I have.  I recall seeing one or two that Multinet would ACCVIO and H >    restart the service (no impact on security or availability).  IIRC F >    the CERT wording made things look worse, it just claimed Multinet@ >    was affected.  So yes, I agree with Andrew that CERT is notH >    completely reliable; they'd have had you rushing out to get a patch! >    you didn't need to rush for.   F Oh I am definitely not one of those who try to claim that CERT is the H only (or even the best) metric for judging the security or stability of D an operating system.  No, my objection to Andrew's responses is his E continued claim that a security hole in X on Unix also means it is a hI security hole on VMS if VMS also happens to run X and then tries to show nI how all those issues didn't get reported to CERT.  Even when the release mG notes explicitly and clearly state that the flaw being patched was not  H reproducible on a VMS system he interprets it as an unreported security  hole in VMS.  F I believe that Andrew's claim is CERT (or rather CERT alone) is not a  useful metric is valid.g  F I believe that Andrew's claim that there are a lot of security issues 4 with VMS that are kept in relative obscurity is not.   [remainder snipped]a  
 Mark Berrymann   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:12:01 -0800e0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>I Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemso' Message-ID: <4007d511$1@cpns1.saic.com>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > Mark Berryman wrote:   [some text snipped]g  G >>>> I have BIND on my system.  None of the vulnerabilities posted for lJ >>>> BIND have ever been able to impact my VMS version of BIND and I test H >>>> every one.  So, how does the fact that I run BIND impact the level " >>>> of security of my VMS system? >>>> >>> 8 >>> There is only 2 reasons why you claim could be true. >>> B >>> 1.    You arn't running a commecial version of bind on OpenVMS? >>>     all the commercial versions either have CERT advisories B >>>     for them or patches for cert advisories (if you understand? >>>     the sorry state of OpenVMS CERT reporting you will knowe >>>     what this means).g >> >> >># >> No.  I run a commercial version.  >> >>> F >>> 2.    You have installed a version more recent than the advisories7 >>>     anything else and you are at odds with reality.  >> >> >>I >> No, again not true.  I apply the vendor-supplied patches after I test U. >> for whether my system is vulnerable or not. >>E >> Ah, I think I see the crux of the matter.  You seem to think that eJ >> anything that has been patched for security reasons must mean that any F >> VMS system running that piece of software must have had a security E >> issue.  If so, then this is a proven false belief.  I will try to m! >> state things a little clearer.o >  >  > > F >> Vendors that distribute opensource products (e.g. BIND) as part of G >> their  product apply the patches released by the maintainers of the  J >> opensource product in order to keep their code in sync.  This does NOT I >> mean that the issue being addressed by the patch necessarily impacted o >> the vendor's product. >> > B > So you are now claiming that HP and the layered IP Stack vendorsA > have made a mistake in providing a patch that references a CERT  > advisory.e   I said no such thing.-  F Um, Andrew, what is your native language?  Based on your inability to G comprehend simple English sentences it must not be English.  If you'll  I tell me what it is I will get my comments translated to that language so 6E that you can better understand them.  Understanding will, I am sure, c# lead to more intelligent responses..   [remainder snipped]e  
 Mark BerrymanC   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:54:07 -0500s* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>I Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemsg) Message-ID: <40086B8B.3E9D2044@istop.com>n  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------EC193F8ACDBD44E8841C7AB4* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:> > OpenVMS 1.0 was introduced by Digital in 1992 when the Alpha; > was intoduced, it may well have basically been a port andw> > a re-branding but what you run now as far as HP is concerned > on Alpha boxes is OpenVMS.  M First commercially available version was called 1.5, and at the time, DigitalgN hadn't chosen a name for "Alpha" and was oscilating between Alpha and AXP. AndL to make sure that they confused customers even more then came out with a newN OS called OpenVMS which was supposed to be compatible with VMS. And then, theyN decided to match version numbering with that of VAX. (AXP-VMS 1.5 did not haveK all the features of the then current VAX-VMS (I remember it lacking the new  queue manager for instance).  I If they had been smart, they would have stuck with "Alpha" all along, andrK stuck with "VMS" all along. And instead of spending money on rebranding andpG putting round dots on Digital logos, they could have used that money to  advertise VMS and Alpha.  K It is hard to imagine that Palmer could have been so clueless on how to fixyJ the problems of Ken Olsen. Instead of fixing the 2 problems (marketing andN pricing) Palmer started to feel the pressure to make changes, so he started toB rebranding as well as the bi-weekly musical chair reorganisations.  N It is a tribute to Ken Olsen that Digital survived so long on its inertia when8 you consider all the damage Palmer inflicted on Digital.& --------------EC193F8ACDBD44E8841C7AB4- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;e  name="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"s Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bith& Content-Description: Card for JF Mezei  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"A   begin:vcard  n:Heshelhurst;Aarong tel;work:+41 80 7261 1267a x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.bbc.co.uk org:BBC World News;Business-& adr:;;175 High Street;London;;;England version:2.1m& email;internet:a.heselrhurst@bbc.co.uk title:Reporter x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Aaron Heshelhurst	 end:vcard$  ( --------------EC193F8ACDBD44E8841C7AB4--   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:15:15 -0000:4 From: "Chris Casey" <chris.caseyNOSPAM@ntlworld.com>I Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemss? Message-ID: <E00Ob.5237$YV1.4602@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net>   K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; wrote in message news:bu8edv$f1o$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  > Mark Berryman wrote:, > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > >>> > >> VMS722_DW_MOT_MUP-V0100 DECWindows MUP, No CERT Advisory. > >d! > >  Bulletin number ESB-2001.460t > >o6 > >> ACMS_U2_043, ACMS security hole No CERT Advisory. > >r* > >  Quoting from the patch release notes:( > >                       **** NOTE **** > > G > >      This problem does not compromise the security of  the  OpenVMS  > >      operating  system.  > >  >l= > Repeat after me it a security hole, lots of CERT advisories 7 > are theoretical attacks, you may have noted that somem5 > of the advisories state there there have not be anyh8 > security compromises based on these theoretical holes. >a< > If you want to remove all these types of advisory from the2 > CERT listing then just say otherwise stop BSing. >d  L Repeat after me 'does not compromise the security of  the  OpenVMS operating system'eJ does not equal 'are theoretical attacks' in the English language. It means this is not J  a security issue on this operating system! It does not say that there are no known security 8  compromises it says 'does not compromise the security'.  ) Which part are you failing to understand?k   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 02:49:29 +0100v* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>I Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemsh/ Message-ID: <4008A2B9.594BEDD@sture.homeip.net>B   Mark Berryman wrote: >  > Bob Koehler wrote:^ > > In article <40055a04$1@cpns1.saic.com>, Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> writes: > >tL > >>I've never looked for Multinet issues in CERT so I'll have to table this, > >>until I have a little time for research. > >e > >lI > >    I have.  I recall seeing one or two that Multinet would ACCVIO andaI > >    restart the service (no impact on security or availability).  IIRCoH > >    the CERT wording made things look worse, it just claimed MultinetB > >    was affected.  So yes, I agree with Andrew that CERT is notJ > >    completely reliable; they'd have had you rushing out to get a patch# > >    you didn't need to rush for.o > G > Oh I am definitely not one of those who try to claim that CERT is thesI > only (or even the best) metric for judging the security or stability ofpE > an operating system.  No, my objection to Andrew's responses is hisdF > continued claim that a security hole in X on Unix also means it is aJ > security hole on VMS if VMS also happens to run X and then tries to showJ > how all those issues didn't get reported to CERT.  Even when the releaseH > notes explicitly and clearly state that the flaw being patched was notI > reproducible on a VMS system he interprets it as an unreported securityg > hole in VMS. > G > I believe that Andrew's claim is CERT (or rather CERT alone) is not ao > useful metric is valid.p > G > I believe that Andrew's claim that there are a lot of security issuesh6 > with VMS that are kept in relative obscurity is not. >  > [remainder snipped]i >   G Well, to put this into context, once the POP3 logfile security hole wasvF published (over a weekend, European time, IIRC), I reproduced it on myF home system, then was in at the crack of dawn on Monday morning to tryE the same again on a test system at work. Yep, there was a hole there,eF for those who knew how to exploit it, but none of our systems even had& POP3 enabled, so really not a problem.     --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 02:55:41 +01001* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>I Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemst0 Message-ID: <4008A42C.6E6ACA52@sture.homeip.net>  E >     ---------------------------------------------------------------  > ; >                                 Name: jfmezei.spamnot.vcfo4 >                Part 1.2         Type: text/x-vcard, >                             Encoding: 7bit9 >                          Description: Card for JF Mezeie  6 Aargh JF, a dreaded .vcf card in a post to a newsgroup  * I know you know better than to do that :-)   -- 4
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:04:29 -0500i* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>I Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems ) Message-ID: <4008B433.961EB275@istop.com>r   Paul Sture wrote:s8 > Aargh JF, a dreaded .vcf card in a post to a newsgroup > , > I know you know better than to do that :-)  K Apology for that. Had tested some feature to send to my mobile phone via my9# wap server and forgot to remove it.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2004 14:11:46 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)p2 Subject: Re: Time synch between an Alpha and a Vax3 Message-ID: <kcK8H3$ej02c@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  ` In article <40080a31$0$296$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>, "Jean Mertens" <jmertens@skynet.be> writes:H > Any DCL commands procedure example to synchronize system date and time1 > between an Alpha and a Vax both under OpneVms ?g   	$ HELP SET TIME/CLUSTER   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:55:52 GMTp( From: "konabear" <maurert@ameritech.net>2 Subject: Re: Time synch between an Alpha and a VaxA Message-ID: <I5ZNb.30500$P%1.24894205@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>c  F Be careful with using  SET TIME/CLUSTER or SYSMAN> CONFIG SET TIME tooJ frequently.  There have been cases of cluster executing these commands andJ while the systems stayed synchronized they also lost fractions of a second& against real time with each execution.   Todd  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:kcK8H3$ej02c@eisner.encompasserve.org...eE > In article <40080a31$0$296$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>, "Jean Mertens"  <jmertens@skynet.be> writes:J > > Any DCL commands procedure example to synchronize system date and time3 > > between an Alpha and a Vax both under OpneVms ?9 >/ > $ HELP SET TIME/CLUSTER"   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:02:10 -0500e* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: UTF-8 on VAX-VMS-) Message-ID: <40085F61.70CD1470@istop.com>a  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------337B819B501486E45915578C* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit0   Fabio Cardoso wrote:* > We used the following syntax for CKERMIT > , > translate file.XML;1  latin1 utf8 test.txt  : Wow. thanks. will try it. Kermit to the rescue once again.& --------------337B819B501486E45915578C- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;i  name="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"e Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit & Content-Description: Card for JF Mezei  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"o   begin:vcard  n:Heshelhurst;Aaron  tel;work:+41 80 7261 1267t x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.bbc.co.uk org:BBC World News;Businessn& adr:;;175 High Street;London;;;England version:2.1 & email;internet:a.heselrhurst@bbc.co.uk title:Reporter x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Aaron Heshelhurst	 end:vcarda  ( --------------337B819B501486E45915578C--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:26:53 -0500a* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: UTF-8 on VAX-VMSi) Message-ID: <40088143.AE47D544@istop.com>c  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------DF915A67EE573BADCE4D7592* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit    "Craig A. Berry" wrote:W@ > English-speaking countries).  You have to install the optionalE > internationalization kit in order to get the necessary conversions.c# > There are some instructions here:  > 6 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/commercial/c/5763p016.html  M Wow, what a bummer. I wonder what sort of rationlisation there was for this ?c2 Surely these files don't take up that much space ?  K This is the type of stuff that should be made available on the VMS web sitei< (or at least in th efreeware) so that hobbysists can get it.& --------------DF915A67EE573BADCE4D7592- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;I  name="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"e Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit & Content-Description: Card for JF Mezei  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="jfmezei.spamnot.vcf"b   begin:vcard  n:Heshelhurst;Aarono tel;work:+41 80 7261 1267b x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.bbc.co.uk org:BBC World News;Business & adr:;;175 High Street;London;;;England version:2.1e& email;internet:a.heselrhurst@bbc.co.uk title:Reporter x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Aaron Heshelhurst	 end:vcardf  ( --------------DF915A67EE573BADCE4D7592--   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:01:00 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) Subject: Re: VMS global section . Message-ID: <bu9qfc$glo$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "Jean Mertens" <jmertens@skynet.be> writes in article <4006edcb$0$281$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> dated Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:46:43 +0100:oL >Is there a way / tool to map from a client PC global sections on an OpenVms	 >system ?S  L There is no way (AFAIK) to share memory sections between Windows and VMS, if that's what you're asking.  K >Currently my applications uses Decforms and Fortan modules to map and editbJ >several global sections that appears to Fortran code like a permanent and >resident common in memory.nH >Each global section has a file on disk associated that is automatically+ >udated by Vms when ever a field is changedy >in the section. >iI >I need to eliminate Decforms and transfer the functionality to a Pc in a  >kind of client-server way. L >Would appreciate any help , advise or tools available from the market place >to perform such function.  L One solution would be to set up a web server on the VMS side and write a CGIM program (presumably in Fortran) which maps to your existing global section.   E Then you can use a standard browser for the client-side, whether it'si Windows, Mac, Linux...  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:18:51 -0600 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)3 Subject: VOLUME SHADOW over FDDI using Alpha and CI 1 Message-ID: <04011617185147@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>s  H I have a VMS cluster (V7.1) with three Alpha servers (4100, 4100, 2100).  P They have a dedicated dual FDDI ring between them for SCS, DECnet, MSCP traffic.  C Each server has a CIPCA adapter with SW800 storage (HSJ50 & HSJ80).t    , One of the 4100 is CI coupled with the 2100.  ' The other 4100 is CI coupled by itself.r  L The storage for both these server configurations is only accessable via MSCP over the FDDI.    A It looks like the years have taken its toll on the intent of thisrK configuration.  I would guess that the original intent was to VOLUME SHADOW1= over the FDDI.  Now there is very little of this intent left.r  M I was wondering if it would be worth my while to go back to the VOLUME SHADOWo4 over the FDDI - or CI couple these servers together.   Anyone have a similiar setup?t       J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administratora* firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:17:24 GMT - From: "Gary Cooper" <gwcooper@mindspring.com>o7 Subject: Re: VOLUME SHADOW over FDDI using Alpha and CIhC Message-ID: <E20Ob.11263$i4.10975@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>e  L Had multiple 2100s in a disaster tolerant, multi-site cluster using FDDI and& volume shadowing. I'm glad its gone!!!K The headache of shadowset copy/merges and fear of cluster segmentation mades it a nightmare.a  5 "John Brandon" <brandon@dalsemi.com> wrote in messageo+ news:04011617185147@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com...)J > I have a VMS cluster (V7.1) with three Alpha servers (4100, 4100, 2100). >lI > They have a dedicated dual FDDI ring between them for SCS, DECnet, MSCP  traffic. >dE > Each server has a CIPCA adapter with SW800 storage (HSJ50 & HSJ80).a >n >r. > One of the 4100 is CI coupled with the 2100. >o) > The other 4100 is CI coupled by itself.- >-I > The storage for both these server configurations is only accessable via  MSCP > over the FDDI. >> >uC > It looks like the years have taken its toll on the intent of thisiF > configuration.  I would guess that the original intent was to VOLUME SHADOW? > over the FDDI.  Now there is very little of this intent left.t > H > I was wondering if it would be worth my while to go back to the VOLUME SHADOW6 > over the FDDI - or CI couple these servers together. >  > Anyone have a similiar setup?t >e >a >a > J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*nm > VMS Systems Administratorn, > firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 04:05:13 +0100d* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>7 Subject: Re: VOLUME SHADOW over FDDI using Alpha and CIg0 Message-ID: <4008B479.6737C44C@sture.homeip.net>   John Brandon wrote:o > J > I have a VMS cluster (V7.1) with three Alpha servers (4100, 4100, 2100). > R > They have a dedicated dual FDDI ring between them for SCS, DECnet, MSCP traffic. > E > Each server has a CIPCA adapter with SW800 storage (HSJ50 & HSJ80).  > . > One of the 4100 is CI coupled with the 2100. > ) > The other 4100 is CI coupled by itself.t > N > The storage for both these server configurations is only accessable via MSCP > over the FDDI. > C > It looks like the years have taken its toll on the intent of thisbM > configuration.  I would guess that the original intent was to VOLUME SHADOWn? > over the FDDI.  Now there is very little of this intent left.n > O > I was wondering if it would be worth my while to go back to the VOLUME SHADOWe6 > over the FDDI - or CI couple these servers together. >  > Anyone have a similiar setup?- >   F The problem I had with FDDI (7 years ago now), was that you didn't getH to see the disks on a remote system until that system was up and runningG VMS. Therefore a simple reboot of one system (these systems were approx48 a mile apart) involved a full shadow copy for each disk.     -- e
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2004 11:01:40 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)2 Subject: What is mystery object in VMS screensaver= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0401161101.5c632c58@posting.google.com>s  A Two slides after "Alpha ready" in the VMS screen saver slide showlD there is a picture of a reddish/yellowish/greenish disk. What is it?  & (You can get the VMS screen saver from  5     http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/25th/index.html    )h   Thanks.e   Alan E. Feldmand   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:17:54 GMTo" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG6 Subject: Re: What is mystery object in VMS screensaver0 Message-ID: <00A2BFC4.0C404DF6@SendSpamHere.ORG>  n In article <b096a4ee.0401161101.5c632c58@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:B >Two slides after "Alpha ready" in the VMS screen saver slide showE >there is a picture of a reddish/yellowish/greenish disk. What is it?  >-' >(You can get the VMS screen saver fromt > 6 >    http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/25th/index.html  	 I get ...i  7 IMGACT-F-NOTNATIVE, image is not an OpenVMS Alpha imagei         --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.c -- oK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMu            i5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:37:37 GMTrA From: "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk>a6 Subject: Re: What is mystery object in VMS screensaver= Message-ID: <54XNb.1364$zH7.13312249@news-text.cableinet.net>m  & Looks like a semiconductor wafer to me   -- :   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:44:12 -0700g8 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam>Y Subject: Re: what's worse?  was Re: Judge Upholds Jury Decision In Microsoft Web-Browser 22 Message-ID: <0PZNb.1333$Wt4.64923@news.uswest.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:GBZNb.69286$%wh.39507@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:/ > > "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in messageP0 > > news:bu74ho$oaj$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl... > >> > >>>i > >>>.B > >>> Meanwhile, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office announced inI > >>> November that it is reconsidering the patent. The decision followed.G > >>> warnings that any Microsoft redesign of its software would rendernC > >>> many Web pages and products of independent software designersb > >>> incompatible.i > >>>'F > >> Wow, that would really be inconceivable! A M$ product that is notG > >> compatible with a previous version of the same M$ product. Or even G > >> worse, not compatible with the official standards! No one has evero > >> seen that.h > >> > >"G > > What I like it that MS is big enough to threaten the Patent Office.u- > > MS could simply *license* the technology.h >u >cB > So what's worse....big government or big corporations?  or both? >cF Actually, the US Patient Office is reviewing the patent for prior art.F Several different companies (including MS) and organizations have comeI forward with what they claim is prior art.  If any one of these prior artiL claims are accurate, the patent is invalid.  The problem with this patent isG that it will also impact Opera, Netscape, Apache, etc., basically everyh! web-server and browser out there.x  
 Mike Ober.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 22:29:58 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>bY Subject: [OT]: what's worse?  was Re: Judge Upholds Jury Decision In Microsoft Web-Browse H Message-ID: <GBZNb.69286$%wh.39507@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:- > "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in messages. > news:bu74ho$oaj$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl... >> >>>T >>>f@ >>> Meanwhile, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office announced inG >>> November that it is reconsidering the patent. The decision followed E >>> warnings that any Microsoft redesign of its software would rendertA >>> many Web pages and products of independent software designers8 >>> incompatible.o >>>lD >> Wow, that would really be inconceivable! A M$ product that is notE >> compatible with a previous version of the same M$ product. Or evenlE >> worse, not compatible with the official standards! No one has ever=
 >> seen that.= >> >=E > What I like it that MS is big enough to threaten the Patent Office.o+ > MS could simply *license* the technology.t    @ So what's worse....big government or big corporations?  or both?   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.032 ************************d Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?", 	Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 22:47:20 GMT.# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>l) Subject: Re: Rally VAX to Alpha Migration0H Message-ID: <YRZNb.69307$%wh.29070@news04.bloor.is.n>>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/process/vms/narnia/unix/by_pri (950 bytes) started.8 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  71 (8) bytes transferred. <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/i( >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus.
 <<< noop >>> 200 No-operation OK. <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/ ( >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus.	 <<< PWDY2 >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus" is current directory.3 <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/process/vms/narnia/unix/ @ >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/process/vms/narnia/unix. <<< TYPE I >>> 200 Type I ok.
 <<< PASV? >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,6,98)t <<< SIZE check_disks
 >>> 213 654W <<< RETR check_diskse >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/process/vms/narnia/unix/check_disks (654 bytes) started.c9 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  347 (8) bytes transferred.  <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/i( >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus.
 <<< noop >>> 200 No-operation OK. <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/e( >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus.	 <<< PWD 2 >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus" is current directory.3 <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/process/vms/narnia/unix/k@ >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/process/vms/narnia/unix. <<< TYPE I >>> 200 Type I ok.
 <<< PASV? >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,6,99)d <<< SIZE check_mod
 >>> 213 930  <<< RETR check_modc >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/process/vms/narnia/unix/check_mod (930 bytes) started.i8 >>> 226 Transfer complet