0 INFO-VAX	Tue, 20 Jan 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 39      Contents: Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped..., Re: Advance Server or Windows Backup Problem, Re: Advance Server or Windows Backup Problem. Re: How many file header does indexf.sys have?. Re: How many file header does indexf.sys have?P Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheap workst. to ruP Re: Judge Upholds Jury Decision In Microsoft Web-Browser Patent Case - U.S. PateP Re: Judge Upholds Jury Decision In Microsoft Web-Browser Patent Case - U.S. PateP Re: Judge Upholds Jury Decision In Microsoft Web-Browser Patent Case - U.S. PateP Re: Judge Upholds Jury Decision In Microsoft Web-Browser Patent Case - U.S. Pate Kerberos login on VMS P latest Linux kernel patch of the week - VMS after 25 years still superior to allP Re: latest Linux kernel patch of the week - VMS after 25 years still superior to$ Re: Legal to give away old condists?$ Re: Legal to give away old condists?$ RE: Legal to give away old condists?0 Re: Mounting identically labelled disks (OVMS73)! Re: OpenVMS book recommendations? ! Re: OpenVMS book recommendations?  Re: remove DECnet OSI ?  Re: stupid backup tricks (long)  Re: stupid backup tricks (long) 2 Re: Technical reasons against porting VMS to IA-322 Re: Technical reasons against porting VMS to IA-32 test mail pls ignore@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems VMS article in Computer Weekly@ VMS File System Internals (McCoy), was: Re: How many file header VMS font server, where and how? # Re: VMS font server, where and how? . Re: VOLUME SHADOW over FDDI using Alpha and CI- Re: What is mystery object in VMS screensaver - Re: What is mystery object in VMS screensaver A Where is the Hobbyist doc (was: Legal to give away old condists?) E Re: Where is the Hobbyist doc (was: Legal to give away old condists?)   [THANKS] Re: remove DECnet OSI ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:28:25 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ' Subject: Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... 0 Message-ID: <buivsa$54s$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   John Santos wrote:? > On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  >  >  >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >>& >>>"Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" >>>  >>> C >>>>Do you have any idea at all what a 4 way UltraSPARC box costs ?  >>>>+ >>>>V440 with 4 CPU's 16GB of RAM = $25,995  >>>> >>>  >>> O >>>Yup.  1/3 the price at 1/3 the performance :)  Just add per-CPU license cost & >>>for your database and stir well ;-) >>>  >>>  >>>  >>< >>Why would performance matter even if your point was true ? >>? >>The 1-4 way market is decided pretty much on price, footprint  >>and application availability.  >  > > > So the customer goes to the vendor and says "give me a 4-CPU@ > system as cheap as possible.  I don't care about performance?" >   ! Pretty close to how it works yes.   @ > Why would they care about the number of processors?  Bragging?@ > "I have 4 processors in my server, it only cost 25K.  You only; > have 2 processors, and spent more.  So what if your 2-CPU ) > system is faster than my 4-CPU system."  >   < People have a notinal idea about how much resource they need for an applicaton.  C Do you really think that people, benchmark/model their application, = size and then re-validate after going live for the 100/1000's ( of 2-4 way servers they are installing ?   > ? >>When most people have systems that average 10-20% utilisation D >>pissing competitions about relative performance thats not measured= >>in orders of magnitude is the last thing that customers are 
 >>interested.  >  > E > What's the peak utilization, during the Christmas rush or month-end B > closing or the day O'Hare is snowed in and everyone is rebooking/ > their flights?  Average often doesn't matter.  >   < I don't think you will find many Airline Reservation systems being hosted on 1-4 way boxes. > ; >>Why is it do you think that Sun has sold more V440's than * >>the entire Itanium market put together ? >  > A > Better marketing and historical momentum due to DEC overpricing % > VAXes and VMS during the late 80's.  >   > Or becasue the Itanium boxes are horribly over priced and have# virtually no SW available for them.   > You need an awfull lot more marketing to try to overcome those two rather damaging issues.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:07:22 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ' Subject: Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... 0 Message-ID: <buj25a$5vp$3@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:: > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:+scjWsm2laeX@eisner.encompasserve.org...   ? >>is if Sun moves off UltraSparc in the next 2-5 years all this B >>whining and crying about knifing Alpha becomes a total borefest, >>right? >  > K > Just why do you think what Sun might or might not do in this area at some G > undefined point in the future *after* having seen  what its customers H > actually want has *anything* to do with how Alpha customers feel aboutB > having been betrayed and lied to in attempts to justify it, Rob? >   < Rob's only motivation in bringing Sun into the discussion is8 to divert attention from Alpha etc. This has always been6 his strategy, shame because it has generally served to3 illustrate the gulf between the way Sun has treated 6 SPARC and Solaris and the way that each owner of Alpha and OpenVMS has treated them.    He has admitted this.    Regards  Andrew Harrison  > - bill >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:02:54 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ' Subject: Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... 0 Message-ID: <buj1su$5vp$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote:  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bu9903$o69$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  >>David Svensson wrote:  >>g >>>"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<w7-dnVmAuIMaTZrdRVn-uw@metrocast.net>...  >>>  >>> 8 >>>>"David Svensson" <icerq4a@spray.se> wrote in message; >>>>news:734da31c.0401150736.65c94cd6@posting.google.com...  >>>> >>>>N >>>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> >>>>A >>>>wrote in message news:<bu3rct$qce$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >>>> >>>> >>>>>>David Svensson wrote:  >>>>>> >>>>>>( >>>>>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy >>>>< >>>><Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message0 >>>>news:<bu1eh4$1ct$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>L >>>>>>>It is currently expensive and hotter, but in my real world experienceM >>>>>>>with testing customer database setups, nothing beats Itanium today and M >>>>>>>that matters. (this includes testing of all current CPU architectures)  >>>>>> >>>>>>M >>>>>>So you have tried an unspecified DBMS on a Power4+ P690, a USIII 1.2Ghz L >>>>>>SF Sun and a GS1280. You must have access to a great deal of expensive >>>>>>kit, congratulations.  >>>>>> >>>>>  >>>>>Thanks,K >>>>>but they are 4-way boxes, so there is no need to have P690 and GS1280.  >>>>L >>>>Ah - that explains why Itanic out-performed the competition.  But if youN >>>>actually were able to obtain a top-of-the-line 4-processor 1.7 GHz POWER4+H >>>>system for comparison I'd be very interested to see the figures:  myP >>>>suspicion is that it would at the very least give Itanic a strong challenge,E >>>>since in larger system configurations the top-of-the-line POWER4+ P >>>>out-performs the top-of-the-line Itanic on a per-processor basis by close to >>>>50% on TPC-C.  >>>  >>> F >>>We got 1.5Ghz POWER4+. 1.7Ghz was not available in the 4-way boxes,I >>>and I don't think 1.7Ghz is availale now either. I agree though that a E >>>1.7GHz could be very close to a Itanium 1.5GHz. I do think however I >>>that IBM's boxes get good database scores partly because of very large 
 >>>L3 caches.  >>>  >>1 >>Sort of like Itanium II's very large L2 caches.  >  > C > Itanium II has up to 6MB L3 cache, and that certainly helps here.  > B > For database stuff a 128MB shared L3 cache is in my opinion much@ > better. And, since it is partly shared the problems with cache > coherency issues is smaller.> Possibly the 6 MB L2 cache is quicker than the P690's L3 cache and there is no contention.    regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:01:02 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ' Subject: Re: 500.000 AMD64's shipped... 0 Message-ID: <buj1pf$5vp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote:  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bu98uc$o69$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  >>David Svensson wrote:  >> >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bu8etb$f1o$3@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>>  >>>  >>>>David Svensson wrote:  >>>> >>>> >>>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bu3rct$qce$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>>>>  >>>>>  >>>>>  >>>>>>David Svensson wrote:  >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bu1eh4$1ct$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>>>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>L >>>>>>>It is currently expensive and hotter, but in my real world experienceM >>>>>>>with testing customer database setups, nothing beats Itanium today and M >>>>>>>that matters. (this includes testing of all current CPU architectures)  >>>>>> >>>>>>M >>>>>>So you have tried an unspecified DBMS on a Power4+ P690, a USIII 1.2Ghz L >>>>>>SF Sun and a GS1280. You must have access to a great deal of expensive >>>>>>kit, congratulations.  >>>>>> >>>>>  >>>>>  >>>>>Thanks,K >>>>>but they are 4-way boxes, so there is no need to have P690 and GS1280.  >>>> >>>>Which 4 way Sun ?  >>>>Which 4 way IBM ?  >>>>Which 4 way AlphaServer ?  >>>> >>>>Regards  >>>>Andrew Harrison  >>>  >>> P >>>They were the best 4-way servers available from each vendor in November 2003. >>! >>You didn't answer the question.  >> >>Model numbers CPU's  >  > G > I might be able to drive to the place next week, but from what I know H > and because there are not that many to choose from, I think I can make > very good guesses. >  > The Sun is most likely one of / > Sun Fire V440        1.28-GHz UltraSPARC IIIi  > or- > Sun Fire V480        1.2 GHz UltraSPARC III  >   3 If so you were very quick off the mark. You ran the 3 tests in November, neither system was available for $ ordering before the 15th of October.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:14:54 -0000 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>5 Subject: Re: Advance Server or Windows Backup Problem , Message-ID: <buiv2v$11hg@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  ] > It is interesting that failure occurs at the same point after backup up  around 2.1 Gbytes. L > Has anyone else seen this type of behavior from either Windows 2000 backup > or Advance Server.?   N 2GB (2^31) file limits (sometimes 4GB) are so common, that I would assume themY unless an application promised 64-bit file support explicitly. Anything that uses C style N random access with seek() is likely to hit this. Been there with Samba, NFS...  R Support has been in the CRTL since about 7.3-1 for 64-bit file support but it will. take time for it to work down to applications.  R The release notes say that 7.3A now supports files sizes up to 4GB, instead of 2GBF I'm guessing that your backups may be much bigger than either, though.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:23:36 -0500 $ From: "PEN" <paul.nuneznosp@mhp.com>5 Subject: Re: Advance Server or Windows Backup Problem , Message-ID: <bujh60$7ak$1@hplms2.hpl.hp.com>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C3DF3F.7AF9C9B0  Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable    Hi Mark,A   "Mark MIller" <markmiller3@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message = B news:Zd0Pb.35411$VS4.1111397@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...   [snip]  H   It is interesting that failure occurs at the same point after backup =H up  around 2.1 Gbytes. Has anyone else seen this type of behavior from =. either Windows 2000 backup or Advance Server.?  
   Mark Miller   E I'm checking with Advanced Server engineering regarding the 2GB/4GB = J limit (that the release notes are accurate).  I don't have a system with =I enough disk space to try it myself.  Just so there's no confusion as to = F which version of Advanced Server you have, can you post the output of:  '     $ @sys$startup:pwrk$define_commands      $ pwver all   I Any chance you can get a trace of the Windows client opening the backup = I file (no need to capture writing 2GB to the backup file)?  Then another = F capture of the failure (that is, start a new trace just prior to the =" backup file reaching 2GB is size)?  C     $ tcptrace/full/packet=3D10000/buffer=3D300/out=3Danyfile.txt =  <ip-addr-of-client>    Use Ctrl/C to stop the tracing.   C Also, be sure the volume on which the share resides does not have =  Highwater Marking enabled.=20    Paul+ ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C3DF3F.7AF9C9B0  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE> ! <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type = ) content=3Dtext/html;charset=3DISO-8859-1> 9 <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR>  <STYLE></STYLE>  </HEAD> ' <BODY text=3D#000000 bgColor=3D#ffffff> 6 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Mark,</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20C style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = 3 BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">    <DIV>"Mark MIller" &lt;<A=20   = J href=3D"mailto:markmiller3@worldnet.att.net">markmiller3@worldnet.att.net= </A>&gt;=20    wrote in message <A=20   = J href=3D"news:Zd0Pb.35411$VS4.1111397@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net">=J news:Zd0Pb.35411$VS4.1111397@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net</A>...</D= IV> ?   <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>[snip]</FONT><BR><BR>It is =  interesting that=20 E   failure occurs at the same point after backup up&nbsp; around 2.1 =  Gbytes. Has=20J   anyone else seen this type of behavior from either Windows 2000 backup = or=20 +   Advance Server.?<BR><BR>Mark Miller</DIV>     <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm checking with Advanced Server = engineering=20J regarding the 2GB/4GB limit (that the release notes are accurate).&nbsp; =
 I don't=20F have a system with enough disk space to try it myself.&nbsp; Just so =
 there's no=20 I confusion as to which version of Advanced Server you have, can you post =  the=20 output of:</FONT></DIV> 4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>8 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; $=20. @sys$startup:pwrk$define_commands</FONT></DIV>= <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; $ pwver =  all</FONT></DIV>4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>H <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any chance you can get a trace of the =
 Windows=20G client opening the backup file (no need to capture writing 2GB to the = 	 backup=20 H file)?&nbsp; Then another capture of the failure (that is, start a new = trace=209 just prior to the&nbsp;backup file&nbsp;reaching 2GB is =  size)?</FONT></DIV> 4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>8 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; $=20> tcptrace/full/packet=3D10000/buffer=3D300/out=3Danyfile.txt=20& &lt;ip-addr-of-client&gt;</FONT></DIV>4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>9 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Use Ctrl/C to stop the =  tracing.</FONT></DIV> 4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>H <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Also, be sure the volume on which the = share resides=20; does not have Highwater Marking enabled.&nbsp;</FONT></DIV> 4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>@ <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Paul</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>  - ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C3DF3F.7AF9C9B0--    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jan 2004 04:56:50 -0800# From: axica_nopub@yahoo.com (Safir) 7 Subject: Re: How many file header does indexf.sys have? = Message-ID: <2b49c9e0.0401200456.2e869203@posting.google.com>   C > Well I am just trying to find out how many file headers have been E > reserved.  So it appears that the allocation size of the file is in 2 > fact the number of file headers is this correct?   Approximatly yes :  C In the indexf file before the headers you have some reserved blocks 4 (boot block, home block and the the header's bitmap)  4 See VMS File system Internals Mc Coy - Digital Press   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:29:54 -0500 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>7 Subject: Re: How many file header does indexf.sys have? 8 Message-ID: <lnlq00dj31bs4s3834iqih213k85sg1fcg@4ax.com>  C On 20 Jan 2004 04:56:50 -0800, axica_nopub@yahoo.com (Safir) wrote:   D >> Well I am just trying to find out how many file headers have beenF >> reserved.  So it appears that the allocation size of the file is in3 >> fact the number of file headers is this correct?  >  >Approximatly yes :  > D >In the indexf file before the headers you have some reserved blocks5 >(boot block, home block and the the header's bitmap)  > 5 >See VMS File system Internals Mc Coy - Digital Press   N My only quibble is with the wording "how many file headers have been reserved"K -- this seems to imply that you think it is the limit on the number of file N headers when, in fact, it is not. The theoretical limit is the "maximum files"K value used when the INITIALIZE was performed, which may be larger (could be N significantly larger) than the current allocation of INDEXF.SYS. The practicalN limit is the size to which INDEXF.SYS can be extended (the file system will doH it automatically) before it uses up all the "map words" in the retrieval9 pointers section of the file header of INDEXF.SYS itself.   + Have I clouded the waters sufficiently? ;<) I ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) I -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:23:04 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukY Subject: Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheap workst. to ru ) Message-ID: <bujo5o$o41$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   n In article <PtcNb.22623$%wh.19927@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: >Fabio Cardoso wrote:  >> Click >>< >> http://news.com.com/2100-1006_3-5140486.html?tag=nefd_top >> >> >>H >> Intel wants to remove price as a barrier to the acceptance of ItaniumI >> servers, a goal that could allow the processor to become the company's 8 >> primary server chip in the second half of the decade. >> >>> >> Because Itanium can provide more performance than Xeon, theI >> elimination of the current, often substantial, price discrepancy could F >> then permit Itanium to become Intel's principal server offering. IfH >> successful, the strategy could allow Intel to begin to phase out Xeon >> after 2006. >  >     I This would only work if the majority of the software vendors ported their J software to Itanium. Upgrading their software from running on IA32 Xeon to, running on AMD x86-64 will be a lot simpler.I Until the software is available Intel will not be able to stop producing  H Xeon (or its x86 based successor ) chips. Giving away Itanium chips freeI still wouldn't permit Itanium to become Intel's principal server offering - unless the native Itanium software was there.     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex university    J >Looks like EV79 will be needed after all....possibly even EV8 by the timeK >Intel meets its aggressive 1999 (oooops) , er...um... 2007 launch date for  >lower cost IA64 chips >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:18:55 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> Y Subject: Re: Judge Upholds Jury Decision In Microsoft Web-Browser Patent Case - U.S. Pate 0 Message-ID: <buivaf$4sf$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Dean Woodward wrote: > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > J >> What I like it that MS is big enough to threaten the Patent Office.  MS) >> could simply *license* the technology.  >  > K > This is over ActiveX, isn't it? No great loss... Matter of fact, it'd be   > a net security gain.  H No, it doesn't just include ActiveX it includes most plugin technologiesC used in Browsers. IE was the first browser that was examined but in @ theory this patent applies to Opera, Mozilla etc etc it may also extend wider than browsers.   : I will leave you to decide if this is a great loss or not.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 08:38:05 -0700 8 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam>Y Subject: Re: Judge Upholds Jury Decision In Microsoft Web-Browser Patent Case - U.S. Pate . Message-ID: <xXbPb.29$lB.7192@news.uswest.net>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message- news:TMbPb.12630$hM2.9706@news.cpqcorp.net... % > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" ' <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> = > wrote in message news:buivaf$4sf$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  > > Dean Woodward wrote: > > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > > > J > > >> What I like it that MS is big enough to threaten the Patent Office. MS- > > >> could simply *license* the technology.  > > >  > > > K > > > This is over ActiveX, isn't it? No great loss... Matter of fact, it'd  be > > > a net security gain. > > L > > No, it doesn't just include ActiveX it includes most plugin technologiesG > > used in Browsers. IE was the first browser that was examined but in D > > theory this patent applies to Opera, Mozilla etc etc it may also > > extend wider than browsers.  > > > > > I will leave you to decide if this is a great loss or not. > >  > E > I'm not a huge fan of software patents.  My comment wasn't directed  towards J > the validity of the patent.  It is directed at the implication made in aJ > statement attributed to MS that the patent should be reviewed/thrown outL > simply because of it's financial impact to MS and/or anyone else who mightL > be infringing on the patent.  Like it or hate it, if the patent is valid -I > MS (and anyone else) do have other options available to them other than E > changing their code and impacting the users of their SW -- they can  license 
 > the patent.  > I > If they feel that the patent is _invalid_, they certainly can challenge  it.  >   G Several companies have given the US Patent Office examples of what they H claim is prior art.  The PTO is reviewing this patent to determine if itL should be revoked based on prior art.  This patent may very well turn out toH be invalid, in which case, the trial judges ruling means nothing becauseL there was no patient infringement.  As for the impact of this patent, almost7 every browser available today infringes on this patent.   
 Mike Ober.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:26:43 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> Y Subject: Re: Judge Upholds Jury Decision In Microsoft Web-Browser Patent Case - U.S. Pate 3 Message-ID: <TMbPb.12630$hM2.9706@news.cpqcorp.net>   K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; wrote in message news:buivaf$4sf$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  > Dean Woodward wrote: > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > > L > >> What I like it that MS is big enough to threaten the Patent Office.  MS+ > >> could simply *license* the technology.  > >  > > L > > This is over ActiveX, isn't it? No great loss... Matter of fact, it'd be > > a net security gain. > J > No, it doesn't just include ActiveX it includes most plugin technologiesE > used in Browsers. IE was the first browser that was examined but in B > theory this patent applies to Opera, Mozilla etc etc it may also > extend wider than browsers.  > < > I will leave you to decide if this is a great loss or not. >   K I'm not a huge fan of software patents.  My comment wasn't directed towards H the validity of the patent.  It is directed at the implication made in aH statement attributed to MS that the patent should be reviewed/thrown outJ simply because of it's financial impact to MS and/or anyone else who mightJ be infringing on the patent.  Like it or hate it, if the patent is valid -G MS (and anyone else) do have other options available to them other than K changing their code and impacting the users of their SW -- they can license  the patent.   K If they feel that the patent is _invalid_, they certainly can challenge it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:02:44 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> Y Subject: Re: Judge Upholds Jury Decision In Microsoft Web-Browser Patent Case - U.S. Pate 0 Message-ID: <bujqg5$eqt$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> = > wrote in message news:buivaf$4sf$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  >  >>Dean Woodward wrote: >> >>>Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  >>>  >>> K >>>>What I like it that MS is big enough to threaten the Patent Office.  MS * >>>>could simply *license* the technology. >>>  >>> K >>>This is over ActiveX, isn't it? No great loss... Matter of fact, it'd be  >>>a net security gain.  >>J >>No, it doesn't just include ActiveX it includes most plugin technologiesE >>used in Browsers. IE was the first browser that was examined but in B >>theory this patent applies to Opera, Mozilla etc etc it may also >>extend wider than browsers.  >>< >>I will leave you to decide if this is a great loss or not. >> >  > M > I'm not a huge fan of software patents.  My comment wasn't directed towards  > the validity of the patent.       > Neither was mine, as you say if the patent is valid then there9 should suitable financial penalities levied on people who  infringe that patent.   @ The size of the damages claimed in this case in part seems to be= because of MS's unwillingness to deal with the patent holder.   : A point that no doubt you would also agree applies equally) to IP for example in the SCO vs IBM case.    Regards  Andrew Harrison - > It is directed at the implication made in a J > statement attributed to MS that the patent should be reviewed/thrown outL > simply because of it's financial impact to MS and/or anyone else who mightL > be infringing on the patent.  Like it or hate it, if the patent is valid -I > MS (and anyone else) do have other options available to them other than M > changing their code and impacting the users of their SW -- they can license 
 > the patent.  > M > If they feel that the patent is _invalid_, they certainly can challenge it.  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:46:05 +0100 % From: "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl>  Subject: Kerberos login on VMS. Message-ID: <bujhtj$178$1@info.service.rug.nl>  C We have two OpenVMS clusters, several Linux systems and a Windows =  domain, G each with their own password database. For the users it is difficult to G remember when to use each password. Therefore, we would like to use one H kerberos server and configure all these systems as clients, so that at = the 0 normal login, the kerberos password can be used.F Can this be done with the normal terminal and DECwindows login under = OpenVMS?D Where should I start reading to learn how to configure our OpenVMS = clusters( to use kerberos for user authentication?F We have mixed architecture clusters with OpenVMS 7.3 (VAX) and 7.3-1 = (Alpha).   F.Z.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jan 2004 10:06:44 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)Y Subject: latest Linux kernel patch of the week - VMS after 25 years still superior to all = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0401201006.5847283a@posting.google.com>   ; linux windoze and slowaris all have one thing in common ... ( securityless, convuluted and garbage ...    ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=13726    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jan 2004 18:55:44 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Y Subject: Re: latest Linux kernel patch of the week - VMS after 25 years still superior to 9 Message-ID: <bujtjg$h02id$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>   = In article <d7791aa1.0401201006.5847283a@posting.google.com>, + 	bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: = > linux windoze and slowaris all have one thing in common ... * > securityless, convuluted and garbage ... >  > + > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=13726   B Let me startt his with the clear statement that I haven't bothered? reading what this actually security problem is and as I have no = AMD64's nor do I anticipate getting one I am not particularly ! concerned.  That being said......   F All this talk of Linux "insecurities" is really rather interesting forE reasons I am sure no one here has considered.  NSA took Linux a while H back and "secured" it.  They eliminated the ability to execute arbitraryF code.  I think they even eliminated the ability to promote yourself toF the root user.  They relesaed all this code under the same GNU licenseI as the original Linux they worked from.  Guess what.  The world responded E with a large yawn.  None of these changes have been rolled into later D versions of Linux and apparently, no one cares enough about security: to be bothered.  Now, what does this mean in light of VMS?  H The biggest selling points people keep making about VMS are security andN stability.  Sadly for VMS, most modern Unix systems are just as stable and canG easily stay up long enough for the hardware to become obsolete and need F replacing anyway.  That leaves security.  It really looks like that isL selling iceboxes to eskimos.  If the operators of Linux systems (and I wouldI wager there are a few more of them than VMS systems today) aren't willing J to put in the effort (relatively free as someone else did all the work) toJ secure their systems what would make anyone think they might be willing toL actually pay premium prices for an OS that offers the same thing (relativelyI speaking)?  Right or wrong, it seems that security doesn't sell any more.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jan 2004 05:11:21 -0800+ From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) - Subject: Re: Legal to give away old condists? < Message-ID: <bec993c8.0401200511.21cd4f0@posting.google.com>  L healyzh@aracnet.com wrote in message news:<buids10961@enews3.newsguy.com>.... > Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote:I > > Is it legal for me to give/ship these away to VMS Hobbyists under the H > > DECUS/Encompass/Whatever-it-is-now hobbyist license?  The originals,G > > that is, not copies.  Is there a statement by HP's legal department 3 > > explicitly OK'ing this or is it just "assumed"?  > H > Anyone know where on earth a copy of the V2 Hobbyist document is?  I'mI > pretty sure that this is covered in there.  I couldn't seem to find the . > document at the new Hobbyist website though.   Q9 and Q11 at   8   http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/hobbyist_faq/index.html  D ask similar questions to mine, but the lack of a concrete answer andK the wording of the response leads me to believe that the legal complexities > are more than I am grasping.  (It's not difficult to exceed my
 legal grasp!)    Tim.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jan 2004 07:29:13 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n- Subject: Re: Legal to give away old condists?i3 Message-ID: <yl1SCVjvx1xQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>O  k In article <bec993c8.0401191218.28902461@posting.google.com>, shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) writes: N > I've got a metric buttload of VMS Condists.  In 99% of the cases I was neverG > the licensee, but being a packrat I've picked these up from employersr; > and customers who were just tossing them into a dumpster.   F    Care to let us know the versions?  I know at least one fellow who'dE    be quite interested in older versions.  The rest of us are lookingd    from new stuff.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 05:31:04 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>:- Subject: RE: Legal to give away old condists?a9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIKEPNCKAA.tom@kednos.com>h  F Unless there is a prohibition against doing so in the hobbyist licenseD agreement, assignment with or without consideration to a third partyI with a valid Hobbyist's license must be presumed to be a right, certainlyhB from a common sense point of view, and I suspect under common law.  A OTOH if there were such a prohibition and you did it anyway, HP'soE remedy would be to seek damages.  Assuming the kit sells for $30, theiF profit could be at most $10, which would be their loss.  If they couldB then prevail to obtain treble damage you would be orded to pay $30! plus $500,000 in attorney's fees.          -----Original Message-----4   From: Tim Shoppa [mailto:shoppa@trailing-edge.com])   Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 5:11 AMS   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComM/   Subject: Re: Legal to give away old condists?       '   healyzh@aracnet.com wrote in message r)   news:<buids10961@enews3.newsguy.com>... 0   > Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote:K   > > Is it legal for me to give/ship these away to VMS Hobbyists under thesJ   > > DECUS/Encompass/Whatever-it-is-now hobbyist license?  The originals,I   > > that is, not copies.  Is there a statement by HP's legal departmenti5   > > explicitly OK'ing this or is it just "assumed"?e   > J   > Anyone know where on earth a copy of the V2 Hobbyist document is?  I'mK   > pretty sure that this is covered in there.  I couldn't seem to find thea0   > document at the new Hobbyist website though.      Q9 and Q11 at    :     http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/hobbyist_faq/index.html   F   ask similar questions to mine, but the lack of a concrete answer andA   the wording of the response leads me to believe that the legal -   complexities@   are more than I am grasping.  (It's not difficult to exceed my   legal grasp!)-      Tim.      ---0(   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A   Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 1/8/20044    ---m& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 1/8/2004>   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:21:20 GMT>3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)p9 Subject: Re: Mounting identically labelled disks (OVMS73)r4 Message-ID: <APaPb.12628$8I2.11552@news.cpqcorp.net>  0 In article <bu70pq$grd$2@grandcanyon.binc.net>, 0 News Reader <read.news@hostname.invalid> writes:  F >Ran into a problem recovering files from an image-copied backup of an, >NFS shared Unix container home directory... ..I >Now there really is no issue about confusing identically labelled disks!eF >No, really.  On VMS I can distinguish them easily - they're differentG >devices, and on Unix I can distinguish them easily - they've different  >mount points.  C There is a lot of software that finds a disk using the DISK$<label>iB logical name that is defined when the disk is mounted.  You really- do NOT want to stop VMS's "nannying" on this.b   I suggest the following:   (1) MOUNT/OVER_ID the disk lL (2) SET VOLUME /LABEL=SYSTEM_BACK  (Chose whatever new label works for you.) (3) DISMOUNT the diskt (4) Now mount it /SYSTEM  B NOTE: Even if you keep the disk privately mounted, it is IMPORTANTC to dismount and re-mount after changing the label.  This is becauseeE SET VOLUME /LABEL does *NOT* correctly re-set all the data structurest associated with the disk.i     --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jan 2004 03:29:22 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)* Subject: Re: OpenVMS book recommendations?= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0401200329.3ad204ee@posting.google.com>l  a rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org wrote in message news:<Pine.LNX.4.58.0401191523430.2333@jaipur.local>...iL > Unlike other operating systems, the documentation that comes with OpenVMS I > I find to be quite useful.  In this case, the OpenVMS System Manager's t: > Manuals tell you just about everything you need to know. > G > And I just saw the new HTML versions they have for v7.3-2.  The HTML yL > versions are organized much nicer than before.  They also have PDF if you  > want that. > E > It's all located at: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/os732_index.htmlD >  > ) > On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Brian Chase wrote:RL > > The FAQ lists quite a few OpenVMS system management books, many of whichK > > are available from Amazon, but I haven't yet found a good discussion ofaN > > which of these are considered to be the best.  Recently I made the mistakeM > > of buying _Getting Started with OpenVMS System Management_ by Miller, andsM > > found it lacking.  I've found the OpenVMS FAQ to be written better and it 0 > > also contains a lot more useful information. > > K > > I was inclined to buy the 2nd Ed, _OpenVMS System Mangement Guide_, butfF > > having been burned for $35 on Miller's "getting started" book, I'm7 > > reluctant to buy anything else with his name on it.M    N Do you know when OpenVMS books from Digital Press will turn in HP Press books?I I think HP should distribute these books for free for each OpenVMS system  sold ! e   Regardss   FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 12:28:21 +0000c* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>* Subject: Re: OpenVMS book recommendations?' Message-ID: <buj6th$c3i$1@lore.csc.com>    Brian Chase wrote: > J > The FAQ lists quite a few OpenVMS system management books, many of whichI > are available from Amazon, but I haven't yet found a good discussion ofbL > which of these are considered to be the best.  Recently I made the mistakeK > of buying _Getting Started with OpenVMS System Management_ by Miller, andtK > found it lacking.  I've found the OpenVMS FAQ to be written better and its. > also contains a lot more useful information. > I > I was inclined to buy the 2nd Ed, _OpenVMS System Mangement Guide_, but D > having been burned for $35 on Miller's "getting started" book, I'm5 > reluctant to buy anything else with his name on it.   B I've not read the first edition, but I'm currently reading the 2nd edition you mention.  D I regard myself as a well seasoned system manager. Some "on the job"E self training with manuals, the "users" and "system managers" coursesiH and some relatively simple systems to take care of. Moved from that intoF more complex systems over a geographic spread with diverse management,A bringing this into some shape of consistency of systems, starting-D clustering and availability provision, and getting fingers and prideG burnt burnt while "learning" important lessons, and finally coming intoe> contact with an extreme breadth of variety of environments andE management techniques that I find you can't say there's necessarily aeE right or wrong way to do "it". I'm also pretty sure that I don't know * everything, and I haven't seen everything.  H While the documentation set does contain much of what you need, and someG internals type publications, the FAQ, DSN/WIS/ITRC articles, and wisdom H quite often seen here, so far I have found the book offers a good way toF view and manage systems with some consistency. I would not necessarilyH say in some areas that it is how I would do it, but I would not disagreeE with the way it is proposed. However, in particular it's approach fortG consistency, and, in my view not quite enough real world justification,e< but theories based on experience, it is a valuable resource.  F I did find one or two anomalies, but I'm not prepared to discount themF until I've dug deeper and fully understood more of the background. OneH statement or group of statements about backup performance, did appear toH be at odds with information published in a technical article. Yet it hasD its foundations in Backup V5.2, and this book is good for V7.3-1, so' perhaps there's more under the surface?h  G So, I'm still reading the book, and, yes I'm picking up information, orsF a new perspective on what I thought I knew, and it's getting committedE to the sponge, which occasionally emits a semblance of understanding, @ not forgetting the odd blot of misinformed opinion, to this veryH newsgroup. I know enough to know I don't know everything, and while thisH book might initially not be one I'd think to buy, I am finding it adding to my learning experience.  ' That's quite a lot for 0.02 of opinion!a -- C? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences> nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:11:29 +0100n" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>  Subject: Re: remove DECnet OSI ?3 Message-ID: <400cf142$0$7164$626a54ce@news.free.fr>w   Hans Vlems wrote:>   >Marc, > H >DECnet phase V that came with VMS 5.5-2H4 is an older version. I cannotJ >recall whether the product has full functionality. Your information showsK >that the phase V prefix (39::) does not match the default value (49::). If>I >phase IV is all you need then I'd remove phase V and reinstall phase IV.> >dJ >$ product show product *                   ! lists all installed products >$ product remove DECNET_OSI >l* >At this point you can reinstall Phase IV. >wD His problem was actually that he knew DECnet PhaseIV but not DECnet I Plus, this is why he wanted to setup a known environment back to be able t to manage his systems easily.i  G I told him that it would be better to get some training on DEcnet Plus.i   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:32:10 GMTn9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> ( Subject: Re: stupid backup tricks (long)3 Message-ID: <_RbPb.12633$5L2.6953@news.cpqcorp.net>o  D I would submit a bug report.  It would seem to me that detecting theE situation and giving at least a warning message would be appropriate.t  5 "Wayne Sewell" <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote in messaget) news:00A2C090.E97F86C1.7@tachysoft.com...o >o > L > Note: this is not a bug report, or an implication that vms backup is doingH > anything wrong.  The operation attempted is invalid and not supported. The H > only suggestion would be for backup to detect this weird condition and abort,L > or at least tell the user it is happening.  It does this in similar cases, buttK > obviously the backup developers didn't visualize someone doing this.  :-)e > G > Note #2:  I did *not* do this myself.  A customer did.  I just had to0 diagnose- > it, because tapesys got blamed for it.  :-)  >u >cJ > Many vms fans are familiar with the concept of a pseudo disk, which is aK > concealed logical that makes an arbitrary directory on a real disk appear  to bewL > an independent disk.  This should not be confused with a virtual disk such asG > vddriver, which implements a simulated disk in a flat container file.e >nD > To implement a pseudo disk, one simply defines a concealed logical pointing tob8 > a directory on a real disk, which can be at any level. >t > For instance:n >sK > $ define/sys/exec/trans=conc pseudo_disk real_disk:[a.few.levels.pseudo.]u >oI > Note the ".]" at the end.  This is required for this mechansim to work.i > I > From this point on the pseudo device can be treated like a real disk in  manyL > ways.  For instance, "dir pseudo_disk:[mydir]" will show the same files asL > "dir real_disk:[a.few.levels.pseudo.mydir]", though they will appear to be inG > the top level directory of the nonexistent pseudo disk.  The [000000]4	 directorynG > is also simulated in that "dir pseudo_disk:[000000]" is equivalent to ( > "dir real_disk:[a.few.levels.pseudo]". >. > K > In most ways, the pseudo disk behaves the same as a real disk, and can be- used	 > as one.2 > H > This is sometimes used to simulate user disks, at sites where all userJ > directories are actually in one tree, as subdirectories under [USERS] or > something similar. >@ >1 > For instance, you can have:n >tB > $ define/sys/exec/trans=conceal joes_disk user_disk:[users.joe.]D > $ define/sys/exec/trans=conceal mikes_disk user_disk:[users.mike.] > G > and each user will appear to have his own disk, even though he really  doesn't.H > As long as the logical is defined during system startup as /system andL > concealed, it can even be in the uaf, i.e. the device is "mikes_disk:" and theaI > dir is [000000], which would mean the default directory and location ofa& > login.com is user_disk:[users.mike]. > F > You can even backup and restore pseudo disks, and the backup listing reflectsI > the viewpoint of the pseudo disk, i.e. it appears to be the backup of au" > physical disk called mikes_disk. >o >eJ > However, the pseudo disk is *not* a real disk, so not all operations are > supported. >oH > In particular, you can't do an IMAGE backup of a pseudo disk.  This is what the< > customer tried to do, and the results were a little weird. >lG > If you know anything about backup, it is obvious why this can't work.o Image K > backups (and normal backups with the /fast qualifier) scan indexf.sys andtG > bitmap.sys.  A pseudo disk does not *have* these.  It's just a normalp	 directoryu, > and does not have *any* of the .sys files. >, >sJ > (Note that again this is different from a virtual disk such as lddriver, whicheL > *does* have an actual disk structure in the container file and *does* have thet
 > sys files.)i >t > > > So an image backup of the pseudo disk is in fact impossible. > E > The surprising thing is that backup lets you *do* it.  A saveset is) created,G > and there are no errors or warnings.  As far as you can tell from the  command J > line, the backup worked perfectly.  But if you look at the list file, or do aI > backup/list of the saveset after the fact, what you see is not what youa expect > and is just plain weird. >eL > First, every file on the physical disk is backed up, not just those on theF > pseudo disk.  Despite what you intended, you have essentially done a regularhK > image backup of the physical disk.  This sort of makes sense, in that theyJ > pseudo disk does not have an indexf.sys file, so backup fell back to the only' > one available, that of the real disk.r > G > The weird part is how the files appear in the listing.  The file namel	 itself is L > correct, but the directory is always "[]" no matter in which directory the fileF > actually resides, which is basically the same format that lost files
 appear in. >n > For instance:: > L > []MMK.EXE;2                                               291   6-OCT-2003 08:1 >o) > when the particular file is actually in  > G > SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MMK.EXE;2d >r) > from the viewpoint of the real disk and  >t >s7 > PSEUDO_DISK:[PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MMK.EXE;2V >o( > from the viewpoint of the pseudo disk. >t > C > If you specify /log, you see the same behavior, which is the only 
 indication@ > you get during the backup that something strange is happening. >m2 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]MMK.EXE;2 >n >bH > My analysis of the behavior is as follows (didn't go to the trouble of lookingv' > at the backup source, just guessing):t >  >mL > 1.  Since /image was specified, backup just translated the input file spec withK > no-conceal and pulled out the device name.  This would be normal behavior. for L > an image backup, since *just* the device name is supposed to be specified, andiJ > is the reason that backup simply *did* an image backup of the real disk. >yL > 2.  The weird directories occurred because backup was unable to figure out the J > actual directories.  Files in image backups are selected by file id, not byD > name.  Since the entire disk is to be backed up, backup just scans indexf.sys, K > and accesses each file by id.  The name and containing directory does notaJ > matter.  In order to generate the complete file spec for the listing and theaJ > file spec that is stored in the saveset itself, the file spec is derived fromJ > the id.  Apparently the use of the pseudo disk as the input spec instead of theL > real disk confuses the  id-to-filespec translation, because it is starting at* > the wrong directory  level or something. >yG > 3.  Normally backup won't allow you to do an image backup of anythingw othercB > than a physical disk.  For instance if you do: "backup/image/logJ > my_disk:[mydir] nl:honk.hat/save", you get: "%BACKUP-F-IMGFILSPE, /IMAGEH > specification must have only device name".  However, the fact that the pseudoL > disk *appears* to be a real device, because the logical is concealed, this$ > check was apparently circumvented. >gK > Perhaps simply translating with no-conceal before checking the input spech wouldtI > allow backup to determine that the input is actually a directory rather  than aB > device and the check would succeed in aborting the bogus backup. >o >sI > The reason this was blamed on tapesys was because of changes in tapesysA 6.1.K > The customer's claim was that this backup worked fine in tapesys 5.2, ande thetL > upgrade screwed things up.  Actually, this problem *was* happening in 5.2,I > there were just no indications of it because the error reporting in theg olderyJ > version isn't as good.   Backup didn't report any errors, so tapesys 5.2J > didn't either, and the customer thought the backup was okay.  No telling how2& > many years of bad backups were made. >lL > Since files with a directory of "[]" normally represent an error condition onI > the disk, tapesys 6.1 flags them with warning messages as a courtesy tot the F > customer so the disk can be repaired.  Until now, I thought the only causesD > were lost files and directory alias problems (syscommon/vms$commonI > inconsistencies), but now we can add image backup of pseudodisks to the> list.>I > I have updated the help/message text for the warning message to includee this,aL > explaining that this is a "doctor, it hurts when I do this" kind of thing. :-)s > K > The fix is trivial.  Just drop the /image and backup will do exactly whato youaC > intended: backup all the files on the pseudo disk, with a listingo
 relatative to  > the pseudo disk. >y > K > The following command procedure log illustrates this stuff.  smalldisk ist aaI > RZ28 with only a few directories and files on it.  It's only purpose ist for G > testing image backups without having to wait half the day for them toB	 complete.  > :-)  >r >sK > The important thing to note is that in the backup of the pseudo disk, thetF > directory is always "[]", no matter where the file actually resides. Other K > than that, it is a normal image backup of the full disk that can actuallya beL > used for image restores.  The screwed up file names would not matter in an > image restore. > L > Which brings up a point.  If you do an image restore of a pseudo disk, you are K > actually doing an image restore of the full disk, which again was not the H > intent.  It's a good way to trash a disk by overwriting it with an old versione > or something.g >a >uL > ========================================================================== > $ set veru > $!- > $! define the pseudo_disk concealed logicale > $!I > $! Note: smalldisk is a test disk without much on it, ideal for testing  image # > $! backups without taking all daye > $! > $!J > $ define/proc/exec/trans=conc pseudo_disk smalldisk:[stuff.pseudo_disk.] > $!* > $! sho the pseudo_disk concealed logical > $! > $ sho log/ful pseudo_disk H >    "PSEUDO_DISK" [exec] = "SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.]" [concealed] (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)t > $! > $! sho the full disk > $!' > $ dir/nohe/notr smalldisk:[000000...]e  > SMALLDISK:[000000]000000.DIR;1  > SMALLDISK:[000000]BACKUP.SYS;1  > SMALLDISK:[000000]BADBLK.SYS;1  > SMALLDISK:[000000]BADLOG.SYS;1  > SMALLDISK:[000000]BITMAP.SYS;1  > SMALLDISK:[000000]CONTIN.SYS;1  > SMALLDISK:[000000]CORIMG.SYS;1  > SMALLDISK:[000000]INDEXF.SYS;1- > SMALLDISK:[000000]NOT_A_DIRECORY.ANY_MORE;1m% > SMALLDISK:[000000]OTHER_STUFF.DIR;1d" > SMALLDISK:[000000]SECURITY.SYS;1 > SMALLDISK:[000000]STUFF.DIR;1r  > SMALLDISK:[000000]VOLSET.SYS;1' > SMALLDISK:[OTHER_STUFF]SHOOMBOP.EXE;1c, > SMALLDISK:[STUFF]MY_SYSTEM_STARTUP.COM;140$ > SMALLDISK:[STUFF]PSEUDO_DISK.DIR;1& > SMALLDISK:[STUFF]SETUP_TEST_JB.COM;6+ > SMALLDISK:[STUFF]SETUP_TEST_TAPESYS.COM;7f+ > SMALLDISK:[STUFF]START_BATCH_QUEUE.COM;22n, > SMALLDISK:[STUFF]START_TEST_TAPESYS.COM;19- > SMALLDISK:[STUFF]SYSTEM_MANAGER_LOGIN.COM;6r( > SMALLDISK:[STUFF]TAPE_DIAG_LOGS.COM;63& > SMALLDISK:[STUFF]WRITE_UP_TIME.COM;61 > SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK]PSEUDO_STUFF.DIR;1a= > SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF]JAVA_SETUP.COM;13t< > SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF]JUKE_SETUP.COM;1C > SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF]MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF.DIR;1sH > SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MBOX.EXE;1H > SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MFTU.EXE;1J > SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MGBOOK.EXE;1G > SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MMK.EXE;22 >aL SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MMK_COMPILE_RULE S.EXE;1n >aL SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MOSAIC_TCPWARE.E XE;1F > SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MP.EXE;1I > SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MPACK.EXE;2b >0K SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MPEG_PLAY.EXE;1l >dL SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MRD_SIMULATOR.EX E;34K > SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MUNPACK.EXE;2e > $! > $! sho the pseudo disk > $!) > $ dir/nohe/notr pseudo_disk:[000000...]A( > PSEUDO_DISK:[000000]PSEUDO_STUFF.DIR;14 > PSEUDO_DISK:[000000.PSEUDO_STUFF]JAVA_SETUP.COM;133 > PSEUDO_DISK:[000000.PSEUDO_STUFF]JUKE_SETUP.COM;1>: > PSEUDO_DISK:[000000.PSEUDO_STUFF]MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF.DIR;1? > PSEUDO_DISK:[000000.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MBOX.EXE;1o? > PSEUDO_DISK:[000000.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MFTU.EXE;1wA > PSEUDO_DISK:[000000.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MGBOOK.EXE;1t> > PSEUDO_DISK:[000000.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MMK.EXE;2L > PSEUDO_DISK:[000000.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MMK_COMPILE_RULES.EXE;1I > PSEUDO_DISK:[000000.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MOSAIC_TCPWARE.EXE;1 = > PSEUDO_DISK:[000000.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MP.EXE;1a@ > PSEUDO_DISK:[000000.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MPACK.EXE;2D > PSEUDO_DISK:[000000.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MPEG_PLAY.EXE;1I > PSEUDO_DISK:[000000.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MRD_SIMULATOR.EXE;34sB > PSEUDO_DISK:[000000.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MUNPACK.EXE;2 > $! > $! do a regular image backup > $!7 > $ backup/image/log/list=smal smalldisk: smal.bak/savee9 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[000000]000000.DIR;1 9 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[000000]BACKUP.SYS;1sD > %BACKUP-S-HEADCOPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[000000]BADBLK.SYS;1 headerD > %BACKUP-S-HEADCOPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[000000]BADLOG.SYS;1 headerD > %BACKUP-S-HEADCOPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[000000]BITMAP.SYS;1 header9 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[000000]CONTIN.SYS;1P9 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[000000]CORIMG.SYS;1dD > %BACKUP-S-HEADCOPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[000000]INDEXF.SYS;1 headerF > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[000000]NOT_A_DIRECORY.ANY_MORE;1> > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[000000]OTHER_STUFF.DIR;1@ > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[OTHER_STUFF]SHOOMBOP.EXE;1; > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[000000]SECURITY.SYS;1 8 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[000000]STUFF.DIR;1E > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[STUFF]MY_SYSTEM_STARTUP.COM;140n= > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[STUFF]PSEUDO_DISK.DIR;1uJ > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK]PSEUDO_STUFF.DIR;1 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied; SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF]JAVA_SETUP.COM;13- > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied: SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF]JUKE_SETUP.COM;1 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copiedA SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF]MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF.DIR;1D > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copiedF SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MBOX.EXE;1 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copiedF SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MFTU.EXE;1 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copiedH SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MGBOOK.EXE;1 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copiedE SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MMK.EXE;2  > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copiedL SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MMK_COMPILE_RULE S.EXE;1i > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copiedL SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MOSAIC_TCPWARE.E XE;1 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copiedD SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MP.EXE;1 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copiedG SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MPACK.EXE;2  > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copiedK SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MPEG_PLAY.EXE;1r > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copiedL SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MRD_SIMULATOR.EX E;34 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copiedI SMALLDISK:[STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MUNPACK.EXE;2I? > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[STUFF]SETUP_TEST_JB.COM;6gD > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[STUFF]SETUP_TEST_TAPESYS.COM;7D > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[STUFF]START_BATCH_QUEUE.COM;22E > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[STUFF]START_TEST_TAPESYS.COM;19 F > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[STUFF]SYSTEM_MANAGER_LOGIN.COM;6A > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[STUFF]TAPE_DIAG_LOGS.COM;63a? > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[STUFF]WRITE_UP_TIME.COM;6h9 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[000000]VOLSET.SYS;1 E > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[]THIS_WILL_BE_A.LOST_COM_FILE;1eG > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied SMALLDISK:[]THIS_WILL_BE_A.LOST_EXECUTABLE;1g > $! > $! type the listings > $!
 > $ type smal  > Listing of save set(s) >H > Save set:          SMAL.BAK  > Written by:        WAYNE$ > UIC:               [000051,000001], > Date:              17-JAN-2004 11:37:40.05H > Command:           BACKUP/IMAGE/LOG/LIST=SMAL SMALLDISK: SMAL.BAK/SAVE/ > Operating system:  OpenVMS Alpha version V7.3- > BACKUP version:    AXP731R006, > CPU ID register:   80000000r > Node name:         _LAUREL::$ > Written on:        _LAUREL$DKB100: > Block size:        32256 > Group size:        10n > Buffer count:      52t >  > Image save of volume set > Number of volumes: 1 >  > Volume attributes  > Structure level:   2 > Label:             SMALLDISK > Owner:$ > Owner UIC:         [000001,000004], > Creation date:     13-MAR-2001 15:05:38.56 > Total blocks:      4110480 > Access count:      3 > Cluster size:      4& > Data check:        No Read, No Write > Extension size:    5> > File protection:   System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World: > Maximum files:     411048iD > Volume protection: System:RWCD, Owner:RWCD, Group:RWCD, World:RWCD > Windows:           7 >oL > [000000]000000.DIR;1                                        1  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > [000000]BACKUP.SYS;1                                        0  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > [000000]BADBLK.SYS;1                                        0  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > [000000]BADLOG.SYS;1                                        0  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > [000000]BITMAP.SYS;1                                      252  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > [000000]CONTIN.SYS;1                                        0  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > [000000]CORIMG.SYS;1                                        0  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1                                     1136  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > [000000]NOT_A_DIRECORY.ANY_MORE;1                           1  20-MAR-2001 11:12:00L > [000000]OTHER_STUFF.DIR;1                                   1  13-MAR-2001 15:06:44L > [OTHER_STUFF]SHOOMBOP.EXE;1                                42   7-NOV-2000 12:36:50L > [000000]SECURITY.SYS;1                                      1  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > [000000]STUFF.DIR;1                                         2  13-MAR-2001 15:06:37L > [STUFF]MY_SYSTEM_STARTUP.COM;140                            3  23-DEC-2000 08:22:07L > [STUFF]PSEUDO_DISK.DIR;1                                    1  13-JAN-2004 08:14:48L > [STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK]PSEUDO_STUFF.DIR;1                       1  13-JAN-2004 08:14:49L > [STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF]JAVA_SETUP.COM;13           1  22-FEB-2003 07:38:03L > [STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF]JUKE_SETUP.COM;1            1  23-JAN-1998 18:44:349 > [STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF]MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF.DIR;1.L >                                                             1  13-JAN-2004 08:14:49> > [STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MBOX.EXE;1L >                                                           174  31-JUL-1994 08:14:45> > [STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MFTU.EXE;1L >                                                           225  31-JUL-1994 08:45:46@ > [STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MGBOOK.EXE;1L >                                                           135   8-FEB-1996 21:48:24= > [STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MMK.EXE;2lL >                                                           291   6-OCT-2003 08:17:54K > [STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MMK_COMPILE_RULES.EXE;1LL >                                                           154   7-MAY-2000 16:35:24H > [STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MOSAIC_TCPWARE.EXE;1L >                                                          3906  15-FEB-2000 17:14:22< > [STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MP.EXE;1L >                                                            46  15-JUN-1995 18:03:06? > [STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MPACK.EXE;2uL >                                                            73  22-APR-2001 18:53:43C > [STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MPEG_PLAY.EXE;1 L >                                                           590  19-OCT-1996 16:20:13H > [STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MRD_SIMULATOR.EXE;34L >                                                           443  31-AUG-2003 10:48:40A > [STUFF.PSEUDO_DISK.PSEUDO_STUFF.MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF]MUNPACK.EXE;2sL >                                                           148  22-APR-2001 18:54:04L > [STUFF]SETUP_TEST_JB.COM;6                                  1  22-DEC-2000 14:43:48L > [STUFF]SETUP_TEST_TAPESYS.COM;7                             1  22-DEC-2000 14:43:49L > [STUFF]START_BATCH_QUEUE.COM;22                             1  22-DEC-2000 16:03:01L > [STUFF]START_TEST_TAPESYS.COM;19                            2  22-DEC-2000 09:51:01L > [STUFF]SYSTEM_MANAGER_LOGIN.COM;6                           1  24-DEC-2000 09:34:10L > [STUFF]TAPE_DIAG_LOGS.COM;63                                8   6-NOV-2000 09:21:02L > [STUFF]WRITE_UP_TIME.COM;6                                  1  13-MAR-2001 09:46:56L > [000000]VOLSET.SYS;1                                        0  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []THIS_WILL_BE_A.LOST_COM_FILE;1                            8  20-MAR-2001 11:12:57L > []THIS_WILL_BE_A.LOST_EXECUTABLE;1                         42  20-MAR-2001 11:13:39 >F  > Total of 40 files, 7694 blocks > End of save setn >; > $!* > $! do an image backup of the pseudo disk > $!9 > $ backup/image/log/list=pseu pseudo_disk: pseu.bak/savee@ > %BACKUP-S-HEADCOPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]INDEXF.SYS;1 header@ > %BACKUP-S-HEADCOPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]BITMAP.SYS;1 header@ > %BACKUP-S-HEADCOPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]BADBLK.SYS;1 header5 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]000000.DIR;1o5 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]CORIMG.SYS;1'5 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]VOLSET.SYS;1e5 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]CONTIN.SYS;1 5 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]BACKUP.SYS;1h@ > %BACKUP-S-HEADCOPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]BADLOG.SYS;1 header7 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]SECURITY.SYS;1 4 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]STUFF.DIR;1: > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]OTHER_STUFF.DIR;1B > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]NOT_A_DIRECORY.ANY_MORE;1G > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]THIS_WILL_BE_A.LOST_COM_FILE;1-I > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]THIS_WILL_BE_A.LOST_EXECUTABLE;1h: > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]PSEUDO_DISK.DIR;1; > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]PSEUDO_STUFF.DIR;1i@ > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF.DIR;1B > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]MY_SYSTEM_STARTUP.COM;140< > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]SETUP_TEST_JB.COM;6A > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]SETUP_TEST_TAPESYS.COM;7sA > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]START_BATCH_QUEUE.COM;22iB > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]START_TEST_TAPESYS.COM;19C > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]SYSTEM_MANAGER_LOGIN.COM;6-> > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]TAPE_DIAG_LOGS.COM;63< > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]WRITE_UP_TIME.COM;67 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]SHOOMBOP.EXE;1a3 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]MBOX.EXE;1t3 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]MFTU.EXE;1>5 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]MGBOOK.EXE;1 2 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]MMK.EXE;2@ > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]MMK_COMPILE_RULES.EXE;1= > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]MOSAIC_TCPWARE.EXE;1 1 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]MP.EXE;1 4 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]MPACK.EXE;28 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]MPEG_PLAY.EXE;1= > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]MRD_SIMULATOR.EXE;34h6 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]MUNPACK.EXE;2: > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]JAVA_SETUP.COM;139 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied PSEUDO_DISK:[]JUKE_SETUP.COM;1  > $! > $! type the listingn > $!
 > $ type pseuc > Listing of save set(s) >d > Save set:          PSEU.BAK  > Written by:        WAYNE$ > UIC:               [000051,000001], > Date:              17-JAN-2004 11:37:46.51J > Command:           BACKUP/IMAGE/LOG/LIST=PSEU PSEUDO_DISK: PSEU.BAK/SAVE/ > Operating system:  OpenVMS Alpha version V7.3w > BACKUP version:    AXP731R0060 > CPU ID register:   80000000e > Node name:         _LAUREL::$ > Written on:        _LAUREL$DKB100: > Block size:        32256 > Group size:        10m > Buffer count:      52r >D > Image save of volume set > Number of volumes: 1 >- > Volume attributesa > Structure level:   2 > Label:             SMALLDISK > Owner:$ > Owner UIC:         [000001,000004], > Creation date:     13-MAR-2001 15:05:38.56 > Total blocks:      4110480 > Access count:      3 > Cluster size:      4& > Data check:        No Read, No Write > Extension size:    5> > File protection:   System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World: > Maximum files:     411048sD > Volume protection: System:RWCD, Owner:RWCD, Group:RWCD, World:RWCD > Windows:           7 >aL > []INDEXF.SYS;1                                           1136  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []BITMAP.SYS;1                                            252  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []BADBLK.SYS;1                                              0  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []000000.DIR;1                                              1  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []CORIMG.SYS;1                                              0  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []VOLSET.SYS;1                                              0  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []CONTIN.SYS;1                                              0  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []BACKUP.SYS;1                                              0  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []BADLOG.SYS;1                                              0  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []SECURITY.SYS;1                                            1  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []STUFF.DIR;1                                               2  13-MAR-2001 15:06:37L > []OTHER_STUFF.DIR;1                                         1  13-MAR-2001 15:06:44L > []NOT_A_DIRECORY.ANY_MORE;1                                 1  20-MAR-2001 11:12:00L > []THIS_WILL_BE_A.LOST_COM_FILE;1                            8  20-MAR-2001 11:12:57L > []THIS_WILL_BE_A.LOST_EXECUTABLE;1                         42  20-MAR-2001 11:13:39L > []PSEUDO_DISK.DIR;1                                         1  13-JAN-2004 08:14:48L > []PSEUDO_STUFF.DIR;1                                        1  13-JAN-2004 08:14:49L > []MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF.DIR;1                                   1  13-JAN-2004 08:14:49L > []MY_SYSTEM_STARTUP.COM;140                                 3  23-DEC-2000 08:22:07L > []SETUP_TEST_JB.COM;6                                       1  22-DEC-2000 14:43:48L > []SETUP_TEST_TAPESYS.COM;7                                  1  22-DEC-2000 14:43:49L > []START_BATCH_QUEUE.COM;22                                  1  22-DEC-2000 16:03:01L > []START_TEST_TAPESYS.COM;19                                 2  22-DEC-2000 09:51:01L > []SYSTEM_MANAGER_LOGIN.COM;6                                1  24-DEC-2000 09:34:10L > []TAPE_DIAG_LOGS.COM;63                                     8   6-NOV-2000 09:21:02L > []WRITE_UP_TIME.COM;6                                       1  13-MAR-2001 09:46:56L > []SHOOMBOP.EXE;1                                           42   7-NOV-2000 12:36:50L > []MBOX.EXE;1                                              174  31-JUL-1994 08:14:45L > []MFTU.EXE;1                                              225  31-JUL-1994 08:45:46L > []MGBOOK.EXE;1                                            135   8-FEB-1996 21:48:24L > []MMK.EXE;2                                               291   6-OCT-2003 08:17:54L > []MMK_COMPILE_RULES.EXE;1                                 154   7-MAY-2000 16:35:24L > []MOSAIC_TCPWARE.EXE;1                                   3906  15-FEB-2000 17:14:22L > []MP.EXE;1                                                 46  15-JUN-1995 18:03:06L > []MPACK.EXE;2                                              73  22-APR-2001 18:53:43L > []MPEG_PLAY.EXE;1                                         590  19-OCT-1996 16:20:13L > []MRD_SIMULATOR.EXE;34                                    443  31-AUG-2003 10:48:40L > []MUNPACK.EXE;2                                           148  22-APR-2001 18:54:04L > []JAVA_SETUP.COM;13                                         1  22-FEB-2003 07:38:03L > []JUKE_SETUP.COM;1                                          1  23-JAN-1998 18:44:34 >e  > Total of 40 files, 7694 blocks > End of save seti >a > $!7 > $! list the saveset, to see what actually got writteny > $! > $ backup/list pseu.bak/save. > Listing of save set(s) >  > Save set:          PSEU.BAKo > Written by:        WAYNE$ > UIC:               [000051,000001], > Date:              17-JAN-2004 11:37:46.51J > Command:           BACKUP/IMAGE/LOG/LIST=PSEU PSEUDO_DISK: PSEU.BAK/SAVE/ > Operating system:  OpenVMS Alpha version V7.3g > BACKUP version:    AXP731R006n > CPU ID register:   80000000e > Node name:         _LAUREL::$ > Written on:        _LAUREL$DKB100: > Block size:        32256 > Group size:        10  > Buffer count:      52h >  > Image save of volume set > Number of volumes: 1 >e > Volume attributesf > Structure level:   2 > Label:             SMALLDISK > Owner:$ > Owner UIC:         [000001,000004], > Creation date:     13-MAR-2001 15:05:38.56 > Total blocks:      4110480 > Access count:      3 > Cluster size:      4& > Data check:        No Read, No Write > Extension size:    5> > File protection:   System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World: > Maximum files:     411048wD > Volume protection: System:RWCD, Owner:RWCD, Group:RWCD, World:RWCD > Windows:           7 >hL > []INDEXF.SYS;1                                           1136  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []BITMAP.SYS;1                                            252  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []BADBLK.SYS;1                                              0  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []000000.DIR;1                                              1  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []CORIMG.SYS;1                                              0  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []VOLSET.SYS;1                                              0  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []CONTIN.SYS;1                                              0  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []BACKUP.SYS;1                                              0  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []BADLOG.SYS;1                                              0  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []SECURITY.SYS;1                                            1  13-MAR-2001 15:05:38L > []STUFF.DIR;1                                               2  13-MAR-2001 15:06:37L > []OTHER_STUFF.DIR;1                                         1  13-MAR-2001 15:06:44L > []NOT_A_DIRECORY.ANY_MORE;1                                 1  20-MAR-2001 11:12:00L > []THIS_WILL_BE_A.LOST_COM_FILE;1                            8  20-MAR-2001 11:12:57L > []THIS_WILL_BE_A.LOST_EXECUTABLE;1                         42  20-MAR-2001 11:13:39L > []PSEUDO_DISK.DIR;1                                         1  13-JAN-2004 08:14:48L > []PSEUDO_STUFF.DIR;1                                        1  13-JAN-2004 08:14:49L > []MORE_PSEUDO_STUFF.DIR;1                                   1  13-JAN-2004 08:14:49L > []MY_SYSTEM_STARTUP.COM;140                                 3  23-DEC-2000 08:22:07L > []SETUP_TEST_JB.COM;6                                       1  22-DEC-2000 14:43:48L > []SETUP_TEST_TAPESYS.COM;7                                  1  22-DEC-2000 14:43:49L > []START_BATCH_QUEUE.COM;22                                  1  22-DEC-2000 16:03:01L > []START_TEST_TAPESYS.COM;19                                 2  22-DEC-2000 09:51:01L > []SYSTEM_MANAGER_LOGIN.COM;6                                1  24-DEC-2000 09:34:10L > []TAPE_DIAG_LOGS.COM;63                                     8   6-NOV-2000 09:21:02L > []WRITE_UP_TIME.COM;6                                       1  13-MAR-2001 09:46:56L > []SHOOMBOP.EXE;1                                           42   7-NOV-2000 12:36:50L > []MBOX.EXE;1                                              174  31-JUL-1994 08:14:45L > []MFTU.EXE;1                                              225  31-JUL-1994 08:45:46L > []MGBOOK.EXE;1                                            135   8-FEB-1996 21:48:24L > []MMK.EXE;2                                               291   6-OCT-2003 08:17:54L > []MMK_COMPILE_RULES.EXE;1                                 154   7-MAY-2000 16:35:24L > []MOSAIC_TCPWARE.EXE;1                                   3906  15-FEB-2000 17:14:22L > []MP.EXE;1                                                 46  15-JUN-1995 18:03:06L > []MPACK.EXE;2                                              73  22-APR-2001 18:53:43L > []MPEG_PLAY.EXE;1                                         590  19-OCT-1996 16:20:13L > []MRD_SIMULATOR.EXE;34                                    443  31-AUG-2003 10:48:40L > []MUNPACK.EXE;2                                           148  22-APR-2001 18:54:04L > []JAVA_SETUP.COM;13                                         1  22-FEB-2003 07:38:03L > []JUKE_SETUP.COM;1                                          1  23-JAN-1998 18:44:34 >s  > Total of 40 files, 7694 blocks > End of save seto >p > $! > $! > L ============================================================================ === : > Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738 wayne@tachysoft.comr: > http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html >oL ============================================================================ ===tD > Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?"- > Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"d   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:45:46 -0600i( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>( Subject: Re: stupid backup tricks (long)/ Message-ID: <00A2C2CB.05F20694.3@tachysoft.com>s  : >From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms) >Subject: Re: stupid backup tricks (long)h     >oE >I would submit a bug report.  It would seem to me that detecting the F >situation and giving at least a warning message would be appropriate. >    Okay, I will do this.y  I In addition, I have changed tapesys to intercept this condition inside of1I sysbak, so it won't even run vms backup if the user makes this mistake.  sO sysbak will abort with a "hey, you have to use a real disk for an image backup"i0 or something similar.  This should be in 6.1.20.  N Since tapesys 5.2 customers won't be able to detect this condition, you shouldO inspect all your .sbk files and remove /image where necessary (*any* files_n ine) the list is not a physical disk drive).     " Or upgrade to 6.1, of course.  :-)   WayneeO ===============================================================================oN Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   aO ===============================================================================kB Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?", 	Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jan 2004 07:31:38 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t; Subject: Re: Technical reasons against porting VMS to IA-32p3 Message-ID: <gYIuFwHXJKy6@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  S In article <buhq24$2ab$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:p > Q > Macro is not supported on the Itanium either. The registers on the Itanium are t4 > completely different from the VAX/Alpha registers.  H    That's got to be quite a schock to my Macro-32 programms that alreadyA    run on IA64, not to mention all that Macro-32 code inside VMS.h  G    The registers did get remapped.  VAX register x is not IA64 registerc    x.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:19:20 GMTi& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>; Subject: Re: Technical reasons against porting VMS to IA-32o4 Message-ID: <cycPb.12637$AO2.12444@news.cpqcorp.net>   Dirk Munk wrote:   > E > Macro is not supported on the Itanium either. The registers on the s@ > Itanium are completely different from the VAX/Alpha registers. >   G As others have mentioned, we have a perfectly working Macro32 compiler eI for Itanium.  There are sufficient registers to move things around while tH not generating any really disgusting code.  Some registers get remapped H automatically by the compiler, but the source code doesn't care or know.  D In fact, the changes to the calling standard (which were not really G mandated by the Itanium hardware, but just for increased compatibility oI with existing Intel compilers and other 3rd party Itanium code) are much o! more visible to Macro32 programs.t  F For AMD64/X64-64/whatever, the number of available registers are such D that the generated code would have to use some memory locations and F constantly shuffle registers in/out.  Now, OpenVMS on VAX, Alpha, and E I64 already have to save context at ASTs, context swaps, interrupts, DD etc. anyway today so this wouldn't be a new concept.  It would just B happen way more often and now the compilers (at least Macro32 and K BLISS/C where they connect with Macro32 code) would have to be aware of it.t   -- i John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leaderd Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:40:23 +0530l. From: "isatyasekhar" <isatyasekhar@in.ibm.com> Subject: test mail pls ignorei4 Message-ID: <buj5jl$2d6a$1@sp15en20.hursley.ibm.com>   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jan 2004 07:25:05 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) I Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemsc3 Message-ID: <XwceRC9RjxOX@eisner.encompasserve.org>y  d In article <buhf5l$hrqan$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > G > And they are correct.  Unlike VMS/OpenVMS which are actually the sametJ > product SunOS and Solaris weren't and were actually shipped concurrentlyF > for a while.  SunOS was their BSD based OS with SysV enhancements(!)5 > while Solaris was SysV based with BSD enhancements.r  E    Absolutely.  All UNIX are about the same to the end user.  They're F    somewhat different to the programmer.  They're completely different    to the admin.  F    Admin SVID after admin BSD is a whole different world, and everyone    using Suns learned it.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:37:06 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>kI Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems/0 Message-ID: <bujp02$e7a$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Mark Berryman wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >> Mark Berryman wrote:  >  >  > [some text snipped]o > H >>>>> I have BIND on my system.  None of the vulnerabilities posted for F >>>>> BIND have ever been able to impact my VMS version of BIND and I H >>>>> test every one.  So, how does the fact that I run BIND impact the ) >>>>> level of security of my VMS system?s >>>>>i >>>>9 >>>> There is only 2 reasons why you claim could be true.d >>>>C >>>> 1.    You arn't running a commecial version of bind on OpenVMSm@ >>>>     all the commercial versions either have CERT advisoriesC >>>>     for them or patches for cert advisories (if you understand.@ >>>>     the sorry state of OpenVMS CERT reporting you will know >>>>     what this means). >>>s >>>s >>>. >>>c$ >>> No.  I run a commercial version. >>>2 >>>>G >>>> 2.    You have installed a version more recent than the advisorieso8 >>>>     anything else and you are at odds with reality. >>>i >>>d >>>o >>> J >>> No, again not true.  I apply the vendor-supplied patches after I test / >>> for whether my system is vulnerable or not.h >>> F >>> Ah, I think I see the crux of the matter.  You seem to think that G >>> anything that has been patched for security reasons must mean that nB >>> any VMS system running that piece of software must have had a H >>> security issue.  If so, then this is a proven false belief.  I will ) >>> try to state things a little clearer.a >> >> >>  >c >>G >>> Vendors that distribute opensource products (e.g. BIND) as part of  H >>> their  product apply the patches released by the maintainers of the G >>> opensource product in order to keep their code in sync.  This does  E >>> NOT mean that the issue being addressed by the patch necessarily t" >>> impacted the vendor's product. >>>Z >>C >> So you are now claiming that HP and the layered IP Stack vendorsoB >> have made a mistake in providing a patch that references a CERT >> advisory. >  >  > I said no such thing.o > H > Um, Andrew, what is your native language?  Based on your inability to I > comprehend simple English sentences it must not be English.  If you'll nK > tell me what it is I will get my comments translated to that language so  G > that you can better understand them.  Understanding will, I am sure, n% > lead to more intelligent responses.u >   F Makr I understood your point perfectly, the problem is with your point not my comprehension of it.e  = You point is that other vendors or organisations find bugs int> layered OpenSource software such as BIND, patches are provided< for these bugs which are then distributed by all the vendors= that use that OpenSource component including HP with OpenVMS.n  : There are numerous problems with your theory each of which indevidually rubbish it.  8 1.	Vendors evaluate the bugs in the OpenSource component2 	on a per OS basis and you may have noted that the2 	same release of the component gets different CERT. 	advisories on different OS's (somethimes like6 	HP from the same vendor). They generally only release1 	patches if the bug causes a problem on their OS.a  . 	This is true of HPs implimentation of BIND on3 	OpenVMS, there have been many more BIND advisoriese0 	and patches to the generic BIND code than there- 	have been patches released by HP. This pointS 	alone refutes your argument.G  : 2.	When HP, Process etc have evaluated the CERT advisories= 	dilligently and have found a vunerability they have admitted0< 	that there is an OpenVMS hole and provided a specific patch, 	or a recommended upgrade to a newer version  : 	http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2002-36.html (advisory)  0 	External verifiaction of hole on a per OS basis- 	http://www.rapid7.com/advisories/R7-0009.txtF  9 	This example shows that there was an externally verifiedR3 	vunerability in the SSH implimentation shiped withS: 	OpenVMS which required an upgrade, not an upgrade becasue2 	the OpenSource code based had been patched but an* 	upgrade because there was a vunerability.  A I can go on providing you with examples which disprove your pointD< how long can you gon on claiming that I don't understand the point you are trying to make ?   RegardsE Andrew HarrisonT   	A > [remainder snipped]L >  > Mark BerrymanI >    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jan 2004 06:31:45 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)' Subject: VMS article in Computer WeeklyL3 Message-ID: <SXx06p8lIImb@eisner.encompasserve.org>F  M In case anyone's interested, there's a 1/2 page article on VMS in the currentKL Computer Weekly. For those of you outside the UK, it's also available on the website at:D   http://www.computerweekly.com/articles/article.asp?liArticleID=127592&liArticleTypeID=1&liCategoryID=6&liChannelID=126&liFlavourID=1&sSearch=&nPage=1T  J It's generally a "the future is good" type of article. (It would have been8 nice to see comments about growing VMS usage however...)   Simon.   -- CB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jan 2004 11:58:03 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)I Subject: VMS File System Internals (McCoy), was: Re: How many file headerS3 Message-ID: <jpcikPjzR77W@eisner.encompasserve.org>J  c In article <2b49c9e0.0401200456.2e869203@posting.google.com>, axica_nopub@yahoo.com (Safir) writes:U > 6 > See VMS File system Internals Mc Coy - Digital Press  @ Which annoyingly was still out of print the last time I checked.  F Any more news on the upcoming revised edition which got mentioned some
 time ago ?   Simon.   -- SB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jan 2004 02:27:34 -0800. From: send_lotsa_spam_here@yahoo.com (Soterro)( Subject: VMS font server, where and how?= Message-ID: <1a63f162.0401200227.6602fa3a@posting.google.com>S   Hello,  D I was trying to set up and run the font server on the VMS VAX 7.2. IE wasn't able to find any documentation on the HP site, and just by theRF few messages from Usenet I realized that there are neither DECW$FS.EXEA nor DECW$XFS.EXE on my machine (no real idea what the differencesUE are). I cannot recall being asked at DECWindows or TCPIP installation B time, where I recall having installed _all_ the options. Does that- mean that VAX VMS doesn't have a font server?C  C On Alpha I wasn't luckier. Again from the scarce hints on Usenet, IUE started manually the DECW$XFS which does listen to port 7100 but then-F does absolutely nothing. No errors in sight, and there I also miss theB documentation on how to configure and check it. Where could be theF font server documentation hidden? I parsed to the best of my attention all the Motif manuals, nothing.O  A I know I could copy the fonts over, but I'd like a font server :)   
 Thanks a lot,D So   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jan 2004 09:45:33 -0800. From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby), Subject: Re: VMS font server, where and how?< Message-ID: <224291b.0401200945.4988aa93@posting.google.com>   There is no font server on VAX.d  A I think, not certain, that the VAX display server doesn't supportL accessing a font server either.U  # On Alpha, there is an option in theMF DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM/TEMPLATE to start the font server and itE mentions SYS$MANAGER:DECW$FS_CONFIG.DAT as the place to configure theME fonts and port. Errors go to SYS$MANAGER:DECW$FS-ERRORS.LOG. However,FB depending how the font server is terminated, there may be problems' with unwritten records in the log file._  F There are utilities in SYS$SYSTEM - FSINFO and FSLSFONTS - that can be( used to list fonts from the font server.  E The font server only supports TCP/IP as a transport for communicationO with the display server.  C There were a number of significant bugs in the font server on AlphaFE fixed in V7.2-2 (I think). Before then it was unreliable. There are aS: few bugs still being fixed but they are much less serious.  2 DECW$XFS appeared in Alpha OpenVMS V7.0 (I think).  D (In the unlikely event that you are using VXTs, the font daemon is aC completely different application used to service fonts just for theF VXTs.)   Martin Kirby  s send_lotsa_spam_here@yahoo.com (Soterro) wrote in message news:<1a63f162.0401200227.6602fa3a@posting.google.com>...- > Hello, > F > I was trying to set up and run the font server on the VMS VAX 7.2. IG > wasn't able to find any documentation on the HP site, and just by theTH > few messages from Usenet I realized that there are neither DECW$FS.EXEC > nor DECW$XFS.EXE on my machine (no real idea what the differencesXG > are). I cannot recall being asked at DECWindows or TCPIP installation D > time, where I recall having installed _all_ the options. Does that/ > mean that VAX VMS doesn't have a font server?A > E > On Alpha I wasn't luckier. Again from the scarce hints on Usenet, IPG > started manually the DECW$XFS which does listen to port 7100 but thenLH > does absolutely nothing. No errors in sight, and there I also miss theD > documentation on how to configure and check it. Where could be theH > font server documentation hidden? I parsed to the best of my attention! > all the Motif manuals, nothing.L > C > I know I could copy the fonts over, but I'd like a font server :)B >  > Thanks a lot,g > S!   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jan 2004 10:57:41 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)y7 Subject: Re: VOLUME SHADOW over FDDI using Alpha and CIa= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0401201057.699e5bd1@posting.google.com>B  a brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) wrote in message news:<04011617185147@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>... O > I was wondering if it would be worth my while to go back to the VOLUME SHADOW 6 > over the FDDI - or CI couple these servers together.  > Probably so. CI adapters have lower host CPU overhead than LAN> adapters like those for FDDI, and you'd eliminate the host CPUC overhead for MSCP-serving the disks, and 7.1 supported Fast_Path so @ you can shift CI interrupts off the Primary CPU if you ever near> saturation of the Primary CPU in interrupt state on an SMP box2 (Fast_Path for LANs wasn't available until 7.3-2).  F But lock-request latency over FDDI is typically about half that of CI,F and lock-request throughput in Verell's tests are about 17K per second@ for FDDI vs. 7K per second for CI (although it's unlikely you'reC anywhere near those numbers). (See http://vmsone.com/dfwdays/ for aRC copy of Verell's presentation on cluster interconnect performance).   > If you wanted to cable the CIs together and send I/Os over CI,B avoiding MSCP-serving, but keep lock requests over FDDI, you couldE even do that with the help of the MOVE_REMOTENODE_CONNECTIONS program  available from the CSCs.  A Also, before you do any CI re-cabling, be sure to check with SHOW F CLUSTER/CONTINUOUS with ADD CIRCUITS on each node (and/or VTDPY on theE HSJs) to see if there are any potential conflicts with host or HSJ CI0- ID numbers before you cable the CIs together.   < In any case, it wouldn't hurt to keep the FDDI connected and! MSCP-serving enabled as a backup.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 06:37:17 GMT ' From: nospam <x@wedontwantyourspam.com>06 Subject: Re: What is mystery object in VMS screensaver5 Message-ID: <BC3317B6.1E900%x@wedontwantyourspam.com>   L in article 00A2C216.C1B0ED08@SendSpamHere.ORG, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG at5 VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote on 20/01/2004 05:14:5  E > Just seems to me that HP has forgotten that their VMS customers run1 > VMS!    H HP only, where have you been. This disease started while the owner was aI company called Digital. They decided that a great thing to do would be to I support this Windows NT thing - since it was just a matter of time before K every body ran that anyway. VMS and UNIX where going to be replaced. Took aTI long time before the IT press, IT advisors (Tell the CIO where they goingIH tomorrow) woke up and found the emperor still naked and it didn't/wasn't going to happen. EL     In the mean time the company was a confused mess. They didn't have thereG wood behind the same arrow any longer. I ever heard once that a company_I asked to get a VMS futures update and they sales people spent most of the K time telling them about NT. No bloody focus on there own products and spentTL years doing free marketing for Microsoft is it any wonder that VMS and Tru64D are where they are now, owned first by a PC maker then by their once competitor HP.         Mark   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 12:27:00 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG6 Subject: Re: What is mystery object in VMS screensaver0 Message-ID: <00A2C2AF.5048205A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  _ In article <BC3317B6.1E900%x@wedontwantyourspam.com>, nospam <x@wedontwantyourspam.com> writes:UM >in article 00A2C216.C1B0ED08@SendSpamHere.ORG, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG at-6 >VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote on 20/01/2004 05:14: >PF >> Just seems to me that HP has forgotten that their VMS customers run	 >> VMS!    > I >HP only, where have you been. This disease started while the owner was aE  J Yes, yes, yes... I concur... However, HP is the present owner and has done< squat to change the course of the river of constant disdain.      J >company called Digital. They decided that a great thing to do would be toJ >support this Windows NT thing - since it was just a matter of time beforeL >every body ran that anyway. VMS and UNIX where going to be replaced. Took aJ >long time before the IT press, IT advisors (Tell the CIO where they goingI >tomorrow) woke up and found the emperor still naked and it didn't/wasn't  >going to happen.   I On behalf of newbies to this newsgroup, I will thank you for this historyDI lesson.  I've always heard people say that we study history so that we do < not repeat its mistakes.  Carly and HP need to study up!!!!!      M >    In the mean time the company was a confused mess. They didn't have thereEH >wood behind the same arrow any longer. I ever heard once that a companyJ >asked to get a VMS futures update and they sales people spent most of theL >time telling them about NT. No bloody focus on there own products and spentM >years doing free marketing for Microsoft is it any wonder that VMS and Tru64-E >are where they are now, owned first by a PC maker then by their once  >competitor HP.O  H So if the dairy farmer decides to market his farm products -- cream and H manure -- from the same wagon chances are he'll just wind up in the shitG slinging business because people won't get past the stench to see he's IG carrying any other product to sell.  Yeah, yeah, I get it.  HP wants toE( push the shit and let the cream curdle.    --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.  --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMI            E5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:25:53 +0100E" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>J Subject: Where is the Hobbyist doc (was: Legal to give away old condists?)3 Message-ID: <400ce692$0$7151$626a54ce@news.free.fr>o   healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:  - >Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote:I >  ; > G >>Is it legal for me to give/ship these away to VMS Hobbyists under theOF >>DECUS/Encompass/Whatever-it-is-now hobbyist license?  The originals,E >>that is, not copies.  Is there a statement by HP's legal departmentK1 >>explicitly OK'ing this or is it just "assumed"?I >>     >> >FG >Anyone know where on earth a copy of the V2 Hobbyist document is?  I'm1H >pretty sure that this is covered in there.  I couldn't seem to find the- >document at the new Hobbyist website though._ >L. http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/alpha_kit.pdf andP, http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/vax_kit.pdf  , For unknown reason, all stuff wich is/was in! http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/I has not been transferred to  http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/_  I So, to access the former site, click on the "OpenVMS Hobbyist" Button in TH the http://www.montagar.com/ home page, then click on any button on the ) left before the redirection is triggered.D   D. -- A  ;                   Discover the FutureVAX: www.futurevax.com[7                           Discover VAXUS: www.vaxus.orgE  I    didier morandi  ~ sarl au capital de 8 000 euros ~  Revendeur agr HPKK  Expertise en environnement DIGITAL ~ Formation ~ Programmation ~ MigrationII    Offshore ~ 5 av. A. Durand 31700 Blagnac France. Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287UF      SIRET 448 694 851 00016 RCS Toulouse http://www.didiermorandi.com   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jan 2004 09:40:46 -0800+ From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)DN Subject: Re: Where is the Hobbyist doc (was: Legal to give away old condists?)= Message-ID: <bec993c8.0401200940.2649e29d@posting.google.com>X  ] Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote in message news:<400ce692$0$7151$626a54ce@news.free.fr>...[I > >Anyone know where on earth a copy of the V2 Hobbyist document is?  I'mBJ > >pretty sure that this is covered in there.  I couldn't seem to find the/ > >document at the new Hobbyist website though.- > >I0 > http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/alpha_kit.pdf > andO. > http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/vax_kit.pdf  
 That says:    C   You may copy the Software into the local memory or storage devices   of the specified quan-tityA   of computers. You may make a single archival or back-up copy of    the Software.A   D   You may NOT transfer your rights to use the Software, the SoftwareN   itself and the ac-companying documentation including this License Agreement.     [...]   G   You may not rent, lease, or otherwise transfer the Software except as:/   expressly athorized in this License Agreementi    A My strict reading of the agreement seems to rule out the MontagarDC CD distribution, so I'm still stumped as to whether I can give awayt? old condists.  I don't want to make a copy, that's for sure, my I idea is to reduce the number of CD's in my basement :-).  I'm not renting-= or leasing.  But it does seems to be an "otherwise transfer".    Tim.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:58:15 +0100 ! From: BAVAY Marc <mbavay@slb.com>s) Subject: [THANKS] Re: remove DECnet OSI ?a3 Message-ID: <buiu4o$q9s$1@smb-pub.grenoble.sema.fr>:  2 thanks to everybody, I really appreciate your help- I should have enough material now to dig into  marc   BAVAY Marc wrote:1   > hello, >1< > I am relatively new to VMS, and I cannot solve  a problem. > G > I have a VAX 4000-700 running 5.5-2H4 which has DECnet OSI installed, ! > but it not phase IV compatible.1   [CUT...]   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.039 ************************