0 INFO-VAX	Sun, 25 Jan 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 48      Contents:" Re: Devicename for COM1 on Alpha ?" Re: Devicename for COM1 on Alpha ?" Re: Devicename for COM1 on Alpha ?" Re: Devicename for COM1 on Alpha ? Help with VMS installation Re: Help with VMS installation Re: Help with VMS installation Re: Help with VMS installation( Hobbyist OpenVMS sytem, recommendations?, Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS sytem, recommendations?, Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS sytem, recommendations?, Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS sytem, recommendations?
 HSZ50 problem H Re: Hubble fine with VMS ... bet mars spirit crash was windoze/linux ...B Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheap Re: Kerberos login on VMS , Re: Monitoring idle /cpu time at night time. Re: OpenVMS and Railways Re: OpenVMS and Railways RE: OpenVMS and Railways Re: OT: Mobile handset security  Re: OT: Mobile handset security  OT: OpenVMS and Railways( OT: RIM (was Re: Reading disk from BIOS) Re: Ralph has been a busy bee ! ) TCP/IP Services Load Broker Configuration @ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems Re: VAXUS: Call for Chapters$ Re: VMS authentication to Windows AD Re: walking into a war zone   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:38:02 GMT 4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)+ Subject: Re: Devicename for COM1 on Alpha ? / Message-ID: <eYyQb.114650$nt4.450497@attbi_s51>   S In article <00A2C5FC.8F54D96F@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: h !In article <4012a43a.446915039@news.tuwien.ac.at>, m.grafinger@tuwien.ac.at (Manfred Grafinger) writes: !snip!E !>Somebody out there knows the device name of the COM1 on Alpha-VMS ?  !  !What Alpha machine? ! J !On my Alpha machines, what I believe you are calling COM1 (<==> 1) is theJ !console port OPA0 because I have my systems configured SET CONSOLE SERIALI !This leave the COM2 (<==> 2) port to be designated TTA0:.  IIRC, setting D !the console (SET CONSOLE GRAPHICS) causes the COM1 to become TTB0:. !   	 Hi Brian,   J This behavior seems just the opposite of my PWS433au - my hookup on <==> 1M reads as TTB0:, and my hookup on <==> 2 reads as TTA0: - do I understand you  H correctly here?  (This is also related to my recent post on EISNER:: in  HARDWARE_HELP.)    !-- C !http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security D !                            solutions that others only claim to be. !-- L !VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM !           6 !  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"   J __________________________________________________________________________A Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own" K bMradAhamiPltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt     "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-'  0                                          with @"   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:15:12 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> + Subject: Re: Devicename for COM1 on Alpha ? 0 Message-ID: <2Padnbw_s_ajWY_dRVn-jQ@comcast.com>  E On my Alphastation 4/233 (the only one powered up at the moment) the  H serial ports are TTA0 and TTB0.  Physically, they are found as nine pin F male (DB9-M) connectors on the back  My Alphastation 600 also has two H DB9-M connectors on the back, marked "1" and "2" and with  symbols like  this:  <--- --->  E On the Alphastation 200 I've used TTA0 with a Modem and also, with a  G null modem adapter, to connect to a serial port on my PC. I can assure  D you that TTA0: it does not go to "nirwana".   You should be able to F measure ~ -10 volts from pin 1 (ground) to pin 4 if it's working.  If - not, perhaps yours really does go to nirwana.    Manfred Grafinger wrote:   >Hello VMS-Gurus.  > F >I have changed the VAX-station, where our plotter was connected to anD >Alpha. Now i cannot identify the devicename of the COM1. On the VaxE >the plotter was connected at the serial port device tta0: but on the E >alpha tta0: goes to nirwana, also ttb0: and i have not any other tt*  >devices in show device. > D >Somebody out there knows the device name of the COM1 on Alpha-VMS ? >  >Much thanks, Manfred  >  >    >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 21:43:13 +0100 + From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> + Subject: Re: Devicename for COM1 on Alpha ? 9 Message-ID: <buulko$mn02h$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>   A "Manfred Grafinger" <m.grafinger@tuwien.ac.at> schreef in bericht , news:4012a43a.446915039@news.tuwien.ac.at... > Hello VMS-Gurus. > G > I have changed the VAX-station, where our plotter was connected to an E > Alpha. Now i cannot identify the devicename of the COM1. On the Vax F > the plotter was connected at the serial port device tta0: but on theF > alpha tta0: goes to nirwana, also ttb0: and i have not any other tt* > devices in show device.  > E > Somebody out there knows the device name of the COM1 on Alpha-VMS ?  >  > Much thanks, Manfred >   H It very much depends on what model you're actually using. If SHOW DEVICEG shows TTA0: and TTB0: then it's one of these. The cable you use between J Alpha and plotter may also be at fault. The DB9 lay-out is not the same asE on a microVAX II IIRC. A BCC08 cable usually won't work for instance.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 04:59:16 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG+ Subject: Re: Devicename for COM1 on Alpha ? 0 Message-ID: <00A2C65E.8A9B3454@SendSpamHere.ORG>  f In article <eYyQb.114650$nt4.450497@attbi_s51>, brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:T >In article <00A2C5FC.8F54D96F@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:i >!In article <4012a43a.446915039@news.tuwien.ac.at>, m.grafinger@tuwien.ac.at (Manfred Grafinger) writes:  >!snip! F >!>Somebody out there knows the device name of the COM1 on Alpha-VMS ? >! >!What Alpha machine?  >!K >!On my Alpha machines, what I believe you are calling COM1 (<==> 1) is the K >!console port OPA0 because I have my systems configured SET CONSOLE SERIAL J >!This leave the COM2 (<==> 2) port to be designated TTA0:.  IIRC, settingE >!the console (SET CONSOLE GRAPHICS) causes the COM1 to become TTB0:.   ( Thus... <==> 1 is TTB0   <==> 2 is TTA0:   >! > 
 >Hi Brian, > K >This behavior seems just the opposite of my PWS433au - my hookup on <==> 1 N >reads as TTB0:, and my hookup on <==> 2 reads as TTA0: - do I understand you I >correctly here?  (This is also related to my recent post on EISNER:: in   >HARDWARE_HELP.)  ( Thus... <==> 1 is TTB0   <==> 2 is TTA0:   How is this the opposite?      --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.  --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:51:14 -0000 ' From: "lazzal" <r.lasbury@ntlworld.com> # Subject: Help with VMS installation B Message-ID: <01AQb.28244$OA3.8696070@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>  L When I try to install OpenVMS 6.2 onto a DEC 3000 the process works OK untilL it reaches the point where it checks the system disk, it then hangs with the= message : %SWAPPER-I-SYSDISK, checking status of system disk.   J I have tried 2 different hard disks on both SCSI channels to no avail. I'mB sure the SCSI controller is OK because the SCSI CD-ROM works fine.   Where am I going wrong?   5 All help, advice and suggestions gratefully received.    Laz    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 21:32:27 +0100 + From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> ' Subject: Re: Help with VMS installation 9 Message-ID: <buul0i$m4n8n$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>   4 "lazzal" <r.lasbury@ntlworld.com> schreef in bericht< news:01AQb.28244$OA3.8696070@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...H > When I try to install OpenVMS 6.2 onto a DEC 3000 the process works OK until J > it reaches the point where it checks the system disk, it then hangs with the ? > message : %SWAPPER-I-SYSDISK, checking status of system disk.  > L > I have tried 2 different hard disks on both SCSI channels to no avail. I'mD > sure the SCSI controller is OK because the SCSI CD-ROM works fine. >  > Where am I going wrong?  > 7 > All help, advice and suggestions gratefully received.  >  > Laz  >  > K What kind of hard disk are you installing VMS on? What kind of CD ROM drive  are you using?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:17:11 -0000 ' From: "lazzal" <r.lasbury@ntlworld.com> ' Subject: Re: Help with VMS installation B Message-ID: <R9CQb.28286$OA3.8832361@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>  6 "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> wrote in message3 news:buul0i$m4n8n$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de...  > 6 > "lazzal" <r.lasbury@ntlworld.com> schreef in bericht> > news:01AQb.28244$OA3.8696070@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...J > > When I try to install OpenVMS 6.2 onto a DEC 3000 the process works OK > until L > > it reaches the point where it checks the system disk, it then hangs with > the A > > message : %SWAPPER-I-SYSDISK, checking status of system disk.  > > J > > I have tried 2 different hard disks on both SCSI channels to no avail. I'm F > > sure the SCSI controller is OK because the SCSI CD-ROM works fine. > >  > > Where am I going wrong?  > > 9 > > All help, advice and suggestions gratefully received.  > >  > > Laz  > >  > > G > What kind of hard disk are you installing VMS on? What kind of CD ROM  drive  > are you using?  F The hard disk and CD ROM are both SCSI (Seagate ST12400N hard disk andE Compaq (Matsushita) CF-503-B CD ROM) however I am not sure I have the K termination set correctly. How should I set the jumpers on the two drives - I with termination turned on or off? and what about the "termination power"  jumpers?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 23:03:24 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> ' Subject: Re: Help with VMS installation 0 Message-ID: <xvqdnWN7o4WX3Y7dRVn-vg@comcast.com>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------0309000706010903040402039 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   D The SCSI Bus must be terminated once at each end!  There must be at G least one source of terminator power.  For a bus with only two drives,  5 I'd say one source of terminator power is sufficient.   G The SCSI Host Bus Adapter normally provides the termination at one end  G of the bus.  The last drive on the chain must supply termination or an  ! external terminator must be used.    The bus should look like this:  A TH------D------D-----D-----T                          ! Bus with   external terminator  orG TH------D------D-----DT                                  ! Last device   has termination enabled. orH T--------D------D-------H-------D------DT     ! bus with both internal   and external devicesH where "T" is a terminator, H is a host bus adapter, and D is a device.  E TH means an HBA with built-in termination and DT means a device with   termination enabled.  
 lazzal wrote:   7 >"Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> wrote in message 4 >news:buul0i$m4n8n$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de... >    > 6 >>"lazzal" <r.lasbury@ntlworld.com> schreef in bericht> >>news:01AQb.28244$OA3.8696070@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net... >>     >>I >>>When I try to install OpenVMS 6.2 onto a DEC 3000 the process works OK 	 >>>        >>>  >>until  >>     >>K >>>it reaches the point where it checks the system disk, it then hangs with 	 >>>        >>>  >>the  >>     >>@ >>>message : %SWAPPER-I-SYSDISK, checking status of system disk. >>> I >>>I have tried 2 different hard disks on both SCSI channels to no avail. 	 >>>        >>>  >I'm >    > E >>>sure the SCSI controller is OK because the SCSI CD-ROM works fine.  >>>  >>>Where am I going wrong? >>> 8 >>>All help, advice and suggestions gratefully received. >>>  >>>Laz >>>  >>> 	 >>>        >>> G >>What kind of hard disk are you installing VMS on? What kind of CD ROM  >>     >> >drive >    >  >>are you using? >>     >> > G >The hard disk and CD ROM are both SCSI (Seagate ST12400N hard disk and F >Compaq (Matsushita) CF-503-B CD ROM) however I am not sure I have theL >termination set correctly. How should I set the jumpers on the two drives -J >with termination turned on or off? and what about the "termination power"	 >jumpers?  >  >  >    >   & --------------030900070601090304040203) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   ? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">  <html> <head>I   <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">    <title></title>  </head> ' <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff"> H The SCSI Bus must be terminated once at each end!&nbsp; There must be atK least one source of terminator power.&nbsp; For a bus with only two drives, 9 I'd say one source of terminator power is sufficient.<br>  <br>F The SCSI Host Bus Adapter normally provides the termination at one endK of the bus.&nbsp; The last drive on the chain must supply termination or an % external terminator must be used.<br>  <br>" The bus should look like this:<br> <br> TH------D------D-----D-----T&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ! Bus with  external terminator<br>  or<br> TH------D------D-----DT&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ! Last device  has termination enabled.<br> or<br>` T--------D------D-------H-------D------DT&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ! bus with both internal&nbsp; and external devices<br>L where "T" is a terminator, H is a host bus adapter, and D is a device.&nbsp;D TH means an HBA with built-in termination and DT means a device with termination enabled.<br> <br> lazzal wrote:<br>  <blockquote type="cite" @  cite="midR9CQb.28286$OA3.8832361@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net">   <pre wrap="">"Hans Vlems" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl">&lt;hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl&gt;</a> wrote in message  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:buul0i$m4n8n$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de">news:buul0i$m4n8n$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de</a>...   </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">     <pre wrap="">"lazzal" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:r.lasbury@ntlworld.com">&lt;r.lasbury@ntlworld.com&gt;</a> schreef in bericht  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:01AQb.28244$OA3.8696070@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net">news:01AQb.28244$OA3.8696070@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net</a>...
     </pre>     <blockquote type="cite">Y       <pre wrap="">When I try to install OpenVMS 6.2 onto a DEC 3000 the process works OK        </pre>     </blockquote>      <pre wrap="">until
     </pre>     <blockquote type="cite">[       <pre wrap="">it reaches the point where it checks the system disk, it then hangs with        </pre>     </blockquote>      <pre wrap="">the
     </pre>     <blockquote type="cite">P       <pre wrap="">message : %SWAPPER-I-SYSDISK, checking status of system disk.  F I have tried 2 different hard disks on both SCSI channels to no avail.       </pre>     </blockquote>    </blockquote>    <pre wrap=""><!---->I'm    </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">     <blockquote type="cite">U       <pre wrap="">sure the SCSI controller is OK because the SCSI CD-ROM works fine.    Where am I going wrong?   5 All help, advice and suggestions gratefully received.    Laz            </pre>     </blockquote> V     <pre wrap="">What kind of hard disk are you installing VMS on? What kind of CD ROM
     </pre>   </blockquote>    <pre wrap=""><!---->drive    </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">     <pre wrap="">are you using? 
     </pre>   </blockquote>    <pre wrap=""><!---->F The hard disk and CD ROM are both SCSI (Seagate ST12400N hard disk andE Compaq (Matsushita) CF-503-B CD ROM) however I am not sure I have the K termination set correctly. How should I set the jumpers on the two drives - I with termination turned on or off? and what about the "termination power"  jumpers?       </pre>
 </blockquote>  </body>  </html>   ( --------------030900070601090304040203--   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2004 13:14:29 -0800( From: banditstan2000@yahoo.co.uk (Garry)1 Subject: Hobbyist OpenVMS sytem, recommendations? = Message-ID: <b5652016.0401241314.6f7545d9@posting.google.com>    Hi, D I'm looking to buy a machine, workstation rather than server, to run@ OpenVMS as a hobbyist. I think I'd like to spring for an Itanium? rather than Alpha, as this is where HP appears to be taking it.    So, the questions are:  F 1) When is OpenVMS for Itanium going to be available for mere mortals, under the hobbyist program? F 2) What is a good choice for an inexpensive box, i2000? What about theF early Intel samples which could run HP-UX or Linux? Will they also run OpenVMS?  # Any other tips/advice very welcome.    Thanks for the help.   Garry    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 00:48:24 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 5 Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS sytem, recommendations? ' Message-ID: <40130448.585FCA4B@aaa.com>    Hi. + In my opinion, there is absolutly no reason . to think about the I64 boxes as an *hobbyist*./ After all, VMS is VMS no matter what it runs on 0 (well more or less, but I expect less difference, between Alpha and I64 then there are between VAX and Alpha...)   2 I'd say you can get an "hobbyist-compatible" Alpha5 hardware for just about nothing. I'll wait 5-10 years - until the first I64's are being dumped out...   5 As a workstation, the Alphaserver 250 commes to mind. 4 Or maybe a "Personal Workstation". The AS1000 series0 could also be found sheap, but at a higher power consumtion.   	 Jan-Erik.      Garry wrote: >  > Hi, F > I'm looking to buy a machine, workstation rather than server, to runB > OpenVMS as a hobbyist. I think I'd like to spring for an ItaniumA > rather than Alpha, as this is where HP appears to be taking it.  >  > So, the questions are: > H > 1) When is OpenVMS for Itanium going to be available for mere mortals, > under the hobbyist program? H > 2) What is a good choice for an inexpensive box, i2000? What about theH > early Intel samples which could run HP-UX or Linux? Will they also run
 > OpenVMS? > % > Any other tips/advice very welcome.  >  > Thanks for the help. >  > Garry    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 21:28:35 -0600 ( From: Michael Rice <marice@whiteice.com>5 Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS sytem, recommendations? 0 Message-ID: <1016dva1mggtd73@corp.supernews.com>  " On 1/24/2004 3:14 PM, Garry wrote:   > Hi, F > I'm looking to buy a machine, workstation rather than server, to runB > OpenVMS as a hobbyist. I think I'd like to spring for an ItaniumA > rather than Alpha, as this is where HP appears to be taking it.  >  > So, the questions are: > H > 1) When is OpenVMS for Itanium going to be available for mere mortals, > under the hobbyist program? H > 2) What is a good choice for an inexpensive box, i2000? What about theH > early Intel samples which could run HP-UX or Linux? Will they also run
 > OpenVMS? > % > Any other tips/advice very welcome.  >  > Thanks for the help. >  > Garry   H I think the first release for Itanium is VMS 8.2 sometime in the second C half of 2004. As to which system to buy, that depends on what your   definition of "inexpensive" is.   C Although they are going to discontinue developing the Alpha, HP is  G probably going to support it for several years. For a hobbyist system,  C you can pickup an Alpha pretty cheap (an XP1000 or a DS10 perhaps).    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 00:58:27 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>5 Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS sytem, recommendations? ) Message-ID: <40135AEA.F545EB8D@istop.com>    Michael Rice wrote: D > Although they are going to discontinue developing the Alpha, HP isH > probably going to support it for several years. For a hobbyist system,E > you can pickup an Alpha pretty cheap (an XP1000 or a DS10 perhaps).   G From your hobbyist needs' point of view, you have to decide whether you L require commercially available software which may or may not be available onL the chosen platform, or whether you will need hobbyist software which may or- may not be available on your chosen platform.   N My gut tells me that hobbyist-style software (open source, freeware, sharewareL etc) will continue to be more available on VAX and ALPHA than IA64 for quiteL some time.  If you choose IA64, you could become very liked by customers who* will rely on you to port freeware to IA64.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 00:23:41 -0600 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>  Subject: HSZ50 problem3 Message-ID: <401360ED.5E03426E@applied-synergy.com>   E I have an HSZ50 that has been off for a couple of months while things  were being moved and rewired.   C Upon turning it back on, the controller now fails power up with the # first two lights lit, and displays:    Mist Diag Error  00000030  Mist Diag Param1 A3FFFFFC  Mist Diag Param2 04000000  Mist Diag Param3 BB00000D   9 I can't find a description of this in the service manual.   0 What is the meaning of this, can I fix it, etc.?  > In addition to the information above, more data is dumped.  IfE necessary, I can get this.  (The system isn't wired up to something I  can cut and past from yet.)    Thanx!  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:31:34 GMT , From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net>Q Subject: Re: Hubble fine with VMS ... bet mars spirit crash was windoze/linux ... / Message-ID: <W%EQb.115858$nt4.471787@attbi_s51>   J Read today the problem with Spirit's rover was a flash memory module.  The@ rover is or will be ok now that the problem has been identified.  A "Warren Spencer" <wspencer@ap.org.nospam.please> wrote in message * news:1012gj1rjf6g45b@news.supernews.com...K > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in <d7791aa1.0401221940.71f90e03  > @posting.google.com>:  > 9 > >what is the mars spirit running on?  The hubble on vms ; > >compared to a mars spirit windoze/unix/linux crash would  > >be terrific advertising ... > > : > >http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040122/D80816O80.html > 0 > The rovers are running VxWorks:   www.nasa.gov >  > ws   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 00:59:52 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>K Subject: Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheap 2 Message-ID: <KNWdnSvW7eTbxo7dRVn-hQ@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:uKRJqVf1WUte@eisner.encompasserve.org... @ > In article <F7qdnX9C1YsBd4zdRVn-gQ@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"  <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > > < > > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message >  > > ) > >   The better marketing angle would be = > >> to show what Itanium does instead of attempting to scale  > >> down tpmC/CPU:  > >> > >> (121065/4)*4=121065 > >>@ > >> tpmC/CPU smacks of the old "SPEC/MHz" rating of years ago - > >> a worthless metric. > > D > > Wrong again, Rob - and a poor analogy to boot.  tpmC/CPU is only	 worthless I > > if you're using the TPC-C scores to compare servers (where you really  don't @ > > care how many processors may be in them, at least to a first approximation - H > > as long as you've got enough active threads to keep those processors busy).J > > If instead you attempt to use TPC-C scores to validate the performance ofI > > the processors that are in those servers (which is precisely what the F > > earlier discussion was about), it's just about the *only* relevant metric -K > > and in the particular case here, where you're using them to explain why  HPJ > > needs to provide small-system TPC-C and IBM may not need to (as Andrew so> > > competently did), it's precisely the right metric as well. > >  > ( > Oh come on.  It is a worthless metric.  K Being both stupid *and* stubborn hardly adds to your credibility, Rob.  Get  a clue.      If there was anything TPC-C . > to crow about, surely they would crow about: >  > 1)  Higher performance& > 2)  Better value (price/performance) > ! > Or something along those lines.   J Just what part about the fact that, even assuming perfectly linear scalingI down from 32 processors, a 4-way POWER4+ box would beat every other 4-way J TPC-C entry *except* for the new Madison-based Itanics do you find so hardI to fathom, Rob?  And since absolutely perfect scaling just doesn't happen @ even under constant conditions (unless the workload is perfectlyH partitionable, which non-clustered TPC-C is not), plus the fact that theK 4-way POWER4+ system would have twice the per-processor cache to work with, B plus the fact that it would have no off-MCM memory references, the% scale-down would be less than linear.   H In other words, a 4-way POWER4+ system would clearly exceed 100K tpmC inL performance, the only question being whether it would exceed it sufficientlyG to beat the best 4-way scores that Itanic can post.  If the p690 scaled K between 4-way and large systems as poorly as the Itanic2 TPC-C entries do a @ 4-way p690 box would score close to 200K tpmC, but the POWER4/4+F architecture, unlike Itanic's, is designed to scale well, so it's alsoF possible that a 4-way top-of-the-line POWER4+ box would come in secondJ behind HP's zx1 chipset - still not exactly shabby given the intense TPC-CE competition at this node size, but IBM apparently gives its customers J sufficient credit for intelligence that it sees little need to post a full' range of TPC-C scores for the p-Series.   #   Since HP currently has them beat, > > I suppose the only marketing angle left is tpmC/CPU?  That's > laughable.  L I guess you give Fujitsu and SPARC64 top marks in SAP SD 2-tier performance,I then:  it certainly holds the top score there (around 40% higher than the J best Itanic score).  Of course, it takes 75% more processors to get there,0 but you don't seem to think that matters at all.  L Stop being an idiiot, Rob:  when you actually put in the effort to wrap your3 mind around a concept, you can do better than this.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:19:47 -0000 5 From: "Robert A.M. van Lopik" <lopik@mail.telepac.pt> " Subject: Re: Kerberos login on VMS9 Message-ID: <buursg$m4aav$1@ID-191217.news.uni-berlin.de>   + <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message # news:burmh3$feh$1@news.mdx.ac.uk... B > In article <H_bQb.12903$G86.3793@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com> writes:J > >If you're talking about the external authentication feature provided byB > >PATHWORKS for logging into the system, that's still using NTLM. > >  >  > OK.  > K > So it looks like we currently have no secure single password systems from  HPJ > working with VMS and other OSs. Even Microsoft advise against using NTLM unless% > you are forced to by older systems.  [ snip ]  K The fact that MS has chosen Kerberos as the preferred mechanism is based on C scalability; NTLM just carries more overhead than Kerberos in large 	 networks.   K NTLM in itself suffers from some weak encryption. With modern switched LANs L this is less of a problem, because you can't eavesdrop on them. Even then itF is good to know that NTLM actually comprises two mechanisms, the olderI Lanmanager protocol and a newer NT protocol. For compatibility reasons by K default both mechanisms are used in an interchange. The LANmanager part has J weak encription, exacerbated by the fact that it truncates the password toK six characters and forces it to uppercase, which makes a brute force attack D quite easy. However, with some registry settings on both clients andF servers, you can suppress the Lanmanager part. Of course older WindowsI versions, like w95, can't participate in such a network. When somebody is ' interested I could find the references.   J What I don't know (and maybe Rick Barry can tell us), is whether pathworks? also supports the suppression of the old Lanmanager encryption.   J All of this written under the IIRC proviso, as it is some years ago that I looked into this.    regards 
 rob van lopik      --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 19-1-2004   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2004 15:22:56 -08007 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) 5 Subject: Re: Monitoring idle /cpu time at night time. = Message-ID: <8a646952.0401241522.28326a23@posting.google.com>    Dear John Brandon:  C I have used Monitor when no other performance utility was available F and didn't find it any more a hog as any other. However, I did set the> recording interval to be every 5 or 2 minutes like SPM and VPA
 respectively.    Regards, Daryl Jones   a brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) wrote in message news:<04012318031122@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>... N > > Will the MONITOR /RECORD and /SUMMARY qualifiers with the MODES class help > > get what you want? > J > They will however the MONITOR utility is a resource hog compared to ECP. > L > In addition you have to parse through a display output to get the data you$ > need.  So much easier with ECP.... > ? > Here is a sample output of a CSV file from one of my servers:  > N > 21-JAN-2004 00:16:05.01,21-JAN-2004 00:17:05.25,MYNODE,VMSCPU,60.24,0,20.81,* > 0.00,1.56,0.80,1.74,3.71,0.00,0.50,12.50 > Q > 21-JAN-2004 05:18:22.87,21-JAN-2004 05:19:22.91,MYNODE,VMSDSK,60.04,DSA0,11.66, C > 11.66,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,4555638.00,17773524  > L > 21-JAN-2004 01:34:12.66,21-JAN-2004 01:35:12.70,MYNODE,VMSGIO,60.04,11.66,: > 200.21,79.85,0.75,0.70,0.77,11.56,0.10,0.00,3.18,3732.00 > P > 21-JAN-2004 00:01:02.06,21-JAN-2004 23:59:59.00,MYNODE,VMSHWC,86336.93,MYNODE, > ALPH,MYNODE$MBA8,160,1 > O > 21-JAN-2004 03:52:19.37,21-JAN-2004 03:53:19.41,MYNODE,VMSLCK,60.03,51717.00, O > 35518.00,348.55,71.24,26.27,502.34,41.04,30.28,349.80,71.94,27.03,8.68,12.78, 0 > 1.33,1.82,0.58,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,22.60,16.97 > P > 21-JAN-2004 00:51:08.08,21-JAN-2004 00:52:08.13,MYNODE,VMSMEM,60.05,393216.00,O > 78030.56,64000.00,29773.00,204535.00,152.00,154.00,46.00,6.00,3.00,0.00,0.00,  > 0.00,0.00,0.00,8192.00 > M > 21-JAN-2004 03:53:19.41,21-JAN-2004 03:54:19.44,MYNODE,VMSPAG,60.03,100.25, M > 13.23,27.32,0.00,0.00,32.28,38.81,0.00,6.06,9.84,0.00,0.02,0.00,13.23,87.02  > O > 21-JAN-2004 00:01:02.06,21-JAN-2004 00:02:02.17,MYNODE,VMSPRC,60.11,2260040a, O > Det,HIB,"FASTPATH_SERVER","SYSTEM","<start>",10,10,0.000,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00, + > 19.00,19.00,19.00,165152.00,19.00,0.00,0, 7 > "DSA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]FASTPATH_SERVER.EXE;1"  > R > 21-JAN-2004 03:52:19.37,21-JAN-2004 03:53:19.41,MYNODE,VMSSCS,60.03,MYNODE-PEA0,> >  0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00 > P > 21-JAN-2004 01:45:13.06,21-JAN-2004 01:46:13.10,MYNODE,VMSXQP,60.04,9.59,0.10,? > 0.00,0.00,0.62,0.00,0.60,0.00,12.23,0.45,14.24,1.72,0.00,0.00  >  >  >  > J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  > VMS Systems Administrator , > firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:24:51 -0000 5 From: "Robert A.M. van Lopik" <lopik@mail.telepac.pt> ! Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Railways 9 Message-ID: <buursl$m4aav$2@ID-191217.news.uni-berlin.de>   ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message 7 news:f30679fb.0401241419.187e99d9@posting.google.com... E > Is there any Railway in the US using OpenVMS as control software  ?  >  > Like Amtrak etc ?  > A > I am asking because the my Country will make new investments in D > Railways calculated about US$ 2 billion dolars ! May be I can work > in any project here !2 > L Don't know about US. But in the Netherlands, yes. But then, our country fits# into the area of Rio de Janeiro :-)f  
 cumprimentos,?
 rob van lopike     --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 19-1-2004   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 23:47:48 +0100VA From: "Mart-info @ Martinnovations BV" <mhm.info@martinnovats.nl>i! Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Railwaysn? Message-ID: <002901c3e2cc$8857b140$83085e0a@martinnovations.nl>n   I can even make that smaller:s  D Corus NL, covers an area of some 20 km2 has lots of railway on site,  largly tracked with VMS systems.   Regards, Martin HoogenboomM   ----- Original Message ----- a5 From: "Robert A.M. van Lopik" <lopik@mail.telepac.pt>e To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com>M) Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 11:24 PMs! Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Railwaysb     > = > "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messager9 > news:f30679fb.0401241419.187e99d9@posting.google.com...eG > > Is there any Railway in the US using OpenVMS as control software  ?  > >M > > Like Amtrak etc ?o > >iC > > I am asking because the my Country will make new investments iniF > > Railways calculated about US$ 2 billion dolars ! May be I can work > > in any project here !- > >-I > Don't know about US. But in the Netherlands, yes. But then, our countrye fits% > into the area of Rio de Janeiro :-)n >  > cumprimentos,  > rob van lopike >b >4 > ---.( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 19-1-2004 >i >a >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:49:06 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>a! Subject: RE: OpenVMS and RailwaysmR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB2381B0@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----: > From: Fabio Cardoso [mailto:fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br]=20  > Sent: January 24, 2004 5:19 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com # > Subject: OT: OpenVMS and RailwaysT >=20E > Is there any Railway in the US using OpenVMS as control software  ?u >=20 > Like Amtrak etc ?=20 >=20A > I am asking because the my Country will make new investments=20 A > in Railways calculated about US$ 2 billion dolars ! May be I=20:  > can work in any project here ! >=20 >=20	 > Regardso >=20 > FC   Fabio,  D Not in the US, but OpenVMS has very mission critical role With India Rail.l  
 Reference:? http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/indiarr/indiarr.pdf)4 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/indiarr/D "Consider the scope of the operation. Indian Railways is the world'sH second-largest railway, with 6,853 stations, 63,028 kilometers of track,F 37,840 passenger coaches and 222,147 freight cars. Annually it carries= some 4.83 billion passengers and 492 million tons of freight"    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant- HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660: Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom8. (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2004 19:40:02 -00003 From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer <mix@anon.lcs.mit.edu>m( Subject: Re: OT: Mobile handset security6 Message-ID: <20040124194002.24759.qmail@nym.alias.net>  F Gregory Morrow <gregoryTHEBESTOFEVERYTHINGmorrow@earthlink.net> wrote:   >o >lcs Mixmaster Remailer wrote: >w. >> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote: >>L >> >I recently got a new mobile handset with all the current gadgets such as >GPRS,L >> >WAP, SMTP/POP/IMAP etc. (pretty amazing that they can fit all of this in >justiG >> >a small device you almost need a needle to press on the buttons :-)  >> >I >> >Unfortunatly, all the juicy settings, uncluding your VMS username and 	 >passwordfM >> >to access your emails via POP are stored in the phone and not on the SIM.o >ThistJ >> >means that if I lose the phone, anyone could put in their sim card and >thennL >> >connect to my server and pickup my emails. And I guess that if they hack >the2 >> >phone, they can probably read my password too. >>E >> Don't worry.  Once they read all those "nobody" trolls you post onhM >> rec.travel.air they'll realize you're just a deranged troll and won't want ' >> anything to do with your adult toys.a >>L >> BTW, you've never answered the question:  why do you reserve most of yourK >> trolling for rec.travel.air?  Why don't you ever show your more ... ahemD7 >> .. "creative" side to your friends in comp.os.vms ora/ >> can.internet.highspeed or alt.cellular.fido?1 >3 >4 >Or alt.circumcision...???  C No kidding ... some of Mezei's best doozies are about circumcision:lG checking out other guys in the locker room, assessing the size of their @ foreskins (or remnants thereof), and, perhaps best of all, MezeiF proselytizing ritual infant circumcision to prospective parents on theD basis that he found masturbation more pleasurable without that peskyI foreskin getting in the way (I kid you not) and liked the results so muchhK that he thinks no child should be deprived of such complete and unmitigatedi joy.  D Whoever said "truth is stranger than fiction" must have been reading# Mezei's ejaculations on usenet.....    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 21:29:05 +0100 (CET)C. From: starwars <nobody@tatooine.homelinux.net>( Subject: Re: OT: Mobile handset securityE Message-ID: <71f8ae953bc4c36a124723edae581d16@tatooine.homelinux.net>:  F Gregory Morrow <gregoryTHEBESTOFEVERYTHINGmorrow@earthlink.net> wrote:   >r >lcs Mixmaster Remailer wrote: >n. >> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote: >>L >> >I recently got a new mobile handset with all the current gadgets such as >GPRS,L >> >WAP, SMTP/POP/IMAP etc. (pretty amazing that they can fit all of this in >justiG >> >a small device you almost need a needle to press on the buttons :-)  >> >I >> >Unfortunatly, all the juicy settings, uncluding your VMS username and 	 >passwordmM >> >to access your emails via POP are stored in the phone and not on the SIM.l >ThisOJ >> >means that if I lose the phone, anyone could put in their sim card and >then L >> >connect to my server and pickup my emails. And I guess that if they hack >the2 >> >phone, they can probably read my password too. >>E >> Don't worry.  Once they read all those "nobody" trolls you post onsM >> rec.travel.air they'll realize you're just a deranged troll and won't wanta' >> anything to do with your adult toys.o >>L >> BTW, you've never answered the question:  why do you reserve most of yourK >> trolling for rec.travel.air?  Why don't you ever show your more ... ahem 7 >> .. "creative" side to your friends in comp.os.vms or0/ >> can.internet.highspeed or alt.cellular.fido?  >  >  >Or alt.circumcision...???  M No kidding ... some of Mezei's best doozies are about circumcision:  checkingkL out other guys in the locker room, assessing the size of their foreskins (orN remnants thereof), and, perhaps best of all, Mezei proselytizing ritual infantP circumcision to prospective parents on the basis that he found masturbation moreN pleasurable without that pesky foreskin getting in the way (I kid you not) andL liked the results so much that he thinks no child should be deprived of such complete and unmitigated joy.e  L Whoever said "truth is stranger than fiction" must have been reading Mezei's ejaculations on    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2004 14:19:04 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)! Subject: OT: OpenVMS and Railwaysw= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0401241419.187e99d9@posting.google.com>s  C Is there any Railway in the US using OpenVMS as control software  ?-   Like Amtrak etc ?   ? I am asking because the my Country will make new investments in B Railways calculated about US$ 2 billion dolars ! May be I can work in any project here !b     Regards    FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 08:32:48 +11000C From: "Christine Ricketts/Andrew Stewart" <u1276a@uxnxixtxe.com.au> 1 Subject: OT: RIM (was Re: Reading disk from BIOS)r. Message-ID: <4012e57d$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au>  7 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message ! news:bura48$86e$1@lore.csc.com...  [cut]a  E > In my younger years, I used to "toggle in a RIM loader". This was a I > sequence of octal numbers which represented a program which effectivelyhH > told the hardware where the punched paper tape reader was, to load theH > contents from the reader into successive memory locations, and then toD > start execution. The principles are the same. (RIM - dunno what it > stands for, if anything).2  A PDP-8 RIM (Read In Mode) - 8 bit paper tape, 6 bit bytes of data, K 7'th bit flags first byte of address, 8'th bit means ignore this character.19 Repeated blocks of (2 bytes of address, 2 bytes of data).w  D RIM loaded in the BIN tape - repeated blocks of (2 bytes of address,8 2 bytes of data, 2 bytes of data, 2 bytes of data, etc). Used much less paper tape.   -- Regards, Andy.  / 03-9808-9584 AH, 0407-300-818 Reasonable Hours.l  * "The Early Christians get the Best Lions."* Jack Gilmore, quoted in "Digital At Work."   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 02:00:05 +0100 (CET)I% From: Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>k( Subject: Re: Ralph has been a busy bee !8 Message-ID: <7ebc9eb9cbf9c8c07f93289d88495485@dizum.com>  + JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:R   >Just got an email from ISTOP. >g+ >Looks like Ralph has been a very busy bee.s  ? LOL ... looks like he's not the only one who's been a busy bee:t   http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_ugroup=rec.travel.air&as_uauthors=nobody@nobody.com&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=enN   or   http://tinyurl.com/224sk   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:35:08 +0000 (UTC)H) From: "Jeff" <dirkdiggler@totalise.co.uk>e2 Subject: TCP/IP Services Load Broker Configuration2 Message-ID: <buv6gc$ff2$1@hercules.btinternet.com>  F Is anybody out there running the TCP/IP Services Load Broker service ?  < If so would you care to share your configuration values for;  K (Can be found in SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$LD_BKR]TCPIP$LBROKER.CONF under v.5.xi TCP/IP)-       i) dns-ttl     ii) dns-refresh-     iii) polling-interval3  K Am looking to configure alias for 2 node cluster, to balance interactive IPE sessions under TCP/IP v.5.4s   Thanks in advance,   Jeff   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:05:21 GMTb& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>I Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemsm8 Message-ID: <2eq510tutfusdbbip67fgugqgjim4pdc5k@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:40:19 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyi. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  
 >jlsue wrote:- >> -L >> Hogwash.  OpenVMS security has been very open.  I've worked in that fieldM >> since 1985, and the engineers have always been very open about the patches M >> needed.  However, not all patches were required because they didn't alwaysi+ >> patch a vulnerability that affected VMS.r >>   >a= >Sorry but this is demonstrably untrue, POP, LAND etc dispovem; >your point, there isn't to my knowlege a patch that refersi8 >to LAND but OpenVMS IP services were vunerable to LAND.  H So, that must mean that OpenVMS IP services is still vulnerable to LAND?  B Or are you talking about a very old, unsupported version of TCP/IP	 services?n  L >> Also, your attempt to draw some full-blown conclusion about the OS merelyG >> based on a single - very arguable - data point is invalid.  For yourrM >> opinion about how unsecure VMS is to be true, you'd have to come up with atL >> lot more data points, and you wouldn't be allowed to ignore opposing data
 >> either. >> : >W9 >Sorry but again this is untrue, I have provided multipleI >datapoints.  ? And I believe almost all of those were discussed and addressed.    > J >> Anyone can prove a point with carefully selected data.  But that tacticK >> does more to call the originator's motives into question than it does to  >> advance the arguments.i >>   >So what is your excuse ?>  F None needed, I'm not making outlandish claims, so have nothing needing proof.   >>  D >>>Given this and a history of non or missreporting of vunerabilitesD >>>its is perfectly fair to ask you how you would propose to supportE >>>your apparent proposition that the number of actual vunerabilitiest( >>>in OpenVMS is small rather than many. >> j >> sH >> Because I actually receive the patches and, in some cases, I actuallyG >> install them.  And the fact that very few patches are released - and9J >> OpenVMS engineering actually has a very good history of taking securityH >> seriously and plugging real security holes - only lends support to my+ >> position concerning relative security.  p >> vF >> Also note that OpenVMS engineering is not responsible for all otherH >> software products involved in any particular environment - and TCP/IPK >> Services (aka UCX) is one of those.  Of all of the many layered products N >> that have gone through the DEC/CPQ/HPQ portfolio for OpenVMS, not that manyF >> were developed and supported within OpenVMS engineering.  Some wereH >> downright horrible applications at first too, but that could not, andB >> should not, be construed as any failing on OpenVMS engineering. >> b> >Sorry but this is claptrap, claiming that the problems wern't@ >the responsibility of OpenVMS engineering is irrelevant OpenVMS< >engineering and engineers for the layered products all work >for the same company.  J So what?  That statement demonstrates a severe lack of knowledge how largeH corporations work.  OpenVMS engineering doesn't even always KNOW about aH particular product that some other group writes (ABS' pre-cursor product was one of those).  : How do you figure that OpenVMS engineering is responsible?  J >> Also not that you'll NEVER win the argument that layered product issuesN >> should be reported as an OS vulnerability in th is discussion, so why waste% >> our time any longer on that issue.  >>> >Sorry more BS, the layered products are produced by HP/compaq> >and are required by your customers. If they arn't reported as) >an OS issue then how are they reported ?t  E Just because you want it to be BS and reported as an OS vulerability?iH Where is this rule written down?  I'd like to review it.  Unless there'sE some standard by which this is applied, you're just spouting your owne wishful thinking.a   >o: >It would appear that your contention that OpenVMS is more; >secure than other OS's is mainly based on the way that then9 >OS and its layered products are packaged rather than howw >secure the whole solution is.  E Not necessarily.  It's already been explained to you that most of therH vulnerabilities reported elsewhere do not result in any kind of securityG problem on OpenVMS.  Patches may still be issued since they may produce2K undesirable results (e.g., process deletion).  But often they don't producet3 the same results or concerns as on other platforms.a   >e= >And sadly for you because it just exposes your BS a bit more @ >sometimes HP/Compaq have reported layered product vunerabilites >as OS issues in CERT.  G I always laugh at this.  You seem to have such low self-esteem that youhJ can't quite get your head around the fact that some folks just don't agree@ with you.  But you've got to constantly try to prove yourself byG name-calling, or trivializing their arguments with silly terms like BS.e  J You can bang your head on the wall of "all VMS software should be reportedK as VMS CERTs" all you want, but you'll never convince those who really knowy
 the facts.   --- jlsu0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)v   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:33:18 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>I Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems-8 Message-ID: <17r5101tj1pb33grat38o0h3sf9kk9oo6s@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:38:24 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy-. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  
 >jlsue wrote: H >> On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:12:32 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy1 >> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  >> u >rL >> Well, neither.  Those aren't the only two possibilities.  First off, you,D >> once again, *assume* that everything released to CERT "admit[s] aN >> vulnerability".  This is not necessarily the case.  It may be possible thatG >> the patch was necessary, but that it didn't actually plug a specificc4 >> security hole, only made the code work correctly. >> o > D >Look when you provide an advisory that says OpenVMS/OpenVMS layered? >product is vunerable, apply patch such and such, or upgrade to ? >release such and such then how much leaway do you really thinkI; >there is for your argument that there may not in fact be at >vunerability ??  G LOTS of leeway.  You've got to actually read the report/advisory to seef what it does for OpenVMS.   K Some have already pointed out to you the fallacy of this argument with sometH of the "specific" CERTs that you've presented here.  For some reason youC choose to ignore arguments that run counter to your personal taste.f  E >CERT is where people provide responses to identified vunerabilities, A >there have been plenty of examples of OpenVMS being vunerable to?@ >CERT exploits without any admitted vunerability or patch for it= >being posted but are you seriously suggesting that sometimes > >you have also admitted to a vunerability and provided a patch >when you were not vunerable ?  J So, if a vulnerability in some opensource utility is reported to CERT, andK the OpenVMS version is found to do nothing more than cause process deletion E of the "server" process - while allowing other server processes to besK re-created when the next request comes in - then this is cause for concern.dJ But not all concerns are of equal value.  They will be fixed and publishedK in CERT because that's where it was originally reported, but the won't be aa real security threat.m  J I really don't see why you refuse to follow this simple line of reasoning.   > 3 >Does the latter behaviour balance out the former ?aN >> I have seen several of these kinds of bugs over the years.  In one way, theF >> bug would affect the operation of the affected piece of TCP/IP (forI >> example), but it would NOT open up a security vulnerability to the OS.,I >> Some of the buffer overflow issues are good examples.  I've seen casessJ >> where, indeed, the code on VMS did have the buffer overflow bug, but itH >> would NOT allow privileged access (or any unauthorized) access to theN >> system.  In some of the cases it would only cause the "listener" process toN >> die, but this didn't cause a problem because on the next user connection itL >> would just be re-created and processing would continue without any notice >> to the users. >> .L >> And, yes, CERT would be the place to release such patches because CERT is< >> where people concerned with the patch are likely to look. >>  L >> I'm sure I'm wasting my fingers trying to explain all that to you, but itL >> would realy help if you accept that some people actually DO have in-depthM >> experience in these areas, and that you should possibly at least hear them J >> out... unless, of course,  you're willing to spend more time doing realJ >> work on the systems in question to attain enough experience to have the0 >> credibility needed to discuss it any further. >> i >aF >The problem is that the facts contradict you and the other choristersI >and instead you have to base your arguments what isn't a very convincing D >hypothesis. Not convincing because your CERT advisories, your patch@ >reports and the advice of your technical experts contradict it.  G What so-called facts are those?  All you've done is show that some CERTaH advisories have been issued.  However others have already shown you thatK these did not necessarily open a hole in VMS security.  This isn't true foraH all of the CERT advisories, but it has been shown to be true for some of= the one's you've presented here as your supporting-evidence. 4   >EK >> Please don't take that in an overly critical way.  But there are some indE >> here who actually work(ed) in security engineering who have a realfM >> background to lend credibility to what they're saying.  If you're not evenpM >> willing to consider what they're saying, you're not helping your case any.u >>   >d7 >Please don't take this the wrong way but so far no oner7 >who has responded to this thread to support your pointr6 >has been at all credible ............................/ >.......................... including yourself.   J And you're experience and knowledge of OpenVMS and it's security issues is based on what?  J If you want to prove us wrong, feel free to get the source listings of theJ OS and present the security holes you find.  Those who *have* viewed these? listings have tried to counter you, but you fail to realize it.-  E And some folks in here have actually worked in OpenVMS engineering onaJ security-related issues, and yet you somehow discount their credibility asE well... from where do you derive this all this knowledge to make suche proclamations?  K Please, regale us with your security background, especially with respect tol" your experience in the OpenVMS OS.   >w: >Again you would be incorrect, you may have forgotten that: >the POP hole was not uncovered by OpenVMS engineering but9 >by a third party who has documented their exchanges withs >the engineering team. >   H Which only proves an exception exists, it does not prove a rule.  If youG understand statistical analysis, surely you understand that you need atsF least 30 *randomly* chosen data points to draw significant statistical9 conclusions.  And even then you'd have an +/- error rate.-   --- jls-0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)u   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:36:08 GMT>& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>I Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems.8 Message-ID: <7qs51095eae76gjtf2047euoh0qk9vredo@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:55:53 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyh. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:     >e9 >I am not harrassing anyone, I am putting some trolls outj >of their misery.w  G To be fair, there's only been ONE troll in this respect.  And he's just0I yanking your chain, pulling your leg; and you seem to take the bait everygH time.  Most of us just ignore  him because we already know he's a little off kilter.    > 8 >Anyone posting articles claiming that the low number of: >CERTS published for OpenVMS is an indication that OpenVMS< >is more secure than other OS's is a troll. Its a point that5 >has been conclusively disproved over and over again.m  H This point has been conceded by most of us over and over again.  Let BobA have his fun, but just ignore him and eventually he'll fade away.x   >n6 >If you don't want to see trolls getting flamed then I7 >would suggest that you ask them nicely to stop postings >BS.   Now that's just silly.   --- jlsd0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)d   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:04:30 GMT>, From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net>% Subject: Re: VAXUS: Call for Chaptersl- Message-ID: <OZBQb.13696$U%5.82266@attbi_s03>h  ) Have to side with Jim here on all counts.d    4 "Jim Becker" <jbecker@ui.urban.org> wrote in message7 news:c113b52c.0401220936.68a7cb56@posting.google.com...e8 > "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message# news:<400EB380.1050907@MMaz.com>...x > [snip]L > > Perhaps because the LUGS that are left here in the US are either alreadyH > > doing well on their own, like Dallas/FW, or are dead or dying a slowL > > death like here in Phoenix.  People are tired, Didier, they are tired ofJ > > investing time into LUGS just to have the carpet pulled out or to have1 > > them turned into a Intel/Windows sales pitch., > [snip] > D > And on what data do you base this? None, apparently. Of the activeD > Encompass LUGs I'm familiar with, not one of them do Intel/WindowsF > sales pitches. The LUG in the DC area has been doing fine for years,G > thank you. We cover a range of topics of interest to the HP installede' > base, and we never run sales pitches.e >wG > Other active Encompass LUGs include (in no particular order) Chicago, H > New York, Austin, Cleveland, and Philadelphia. New Encompass LUGs have= > formed in the Northeast and in North Carolina, and PenNYLUGhC > (Pennsylvania/NY) formed not too long ago. The DFW group is stillaF > around at least in the form of that lovely Hobbyist program. PhoenixG > is still having meetings AFAIK. (Apologies to any LUGs I've failed todD > list here.) The LUG leaders and Encompass HQ staff get together byF > conference call on a regular basis to keep up with each other and toH > help each other out. The LUG leaders also have a mailing list they can' > use to stay in touch with each other.  >wH > I have no idea what carpet you're referring to that's being pulled outG > from under the LUGs. In fact, Encompass has increased its LUG fundingO > for 2004.w >dL > > In my estimation, you will see very little to no interest here in the USL > > for that reason alone, but also because of the fact that for us to driveH > > from state to state, you could have traveled from country to countryL > > there in Europe; Proximity does matter and no one wants to be the single< > > LUG member in their region, nothing is gained by that... >c6 > Huh? There *is* interest in forming LUGs in the U.S. >n > [snip]4 > > What value to the members?  Encompass has yet toK > > figure that one out and is still riding on the member benefits put into,& > > action by prior DECUS work (IMHO). >u$ > You've got your facts wrong again. >sH > > With todays electronic collaboration via the net and telephone, mostL > > technical issues can be discussed and worked out, the only thing missingJ > > is the socials after the meeting when DEC, well Compaq, Ha!  HP boughtE > > the beer, but what, they haven't done that in more than a decade!h >oH > The value of meeting face to face, for many people, isn't the beer. In? > ESILUG, we never have beer anyway. I'll quote from our ESILUGt) > presentation, "Why Go to LUG Meetings?"a' > - Information you can't get elsewheretA >     Even if the information is "out there" somewhere, it's morea, > focused and more reliable at a LUG meeting$ > - Insights you can't get elsewhere@ >     There's nothing like hearing the right person give you the> > straight scoop, whether it's the speaker or another attendee > - Someone else's expertise- >     Let them share their knowledge with youg > - Someone else's pains/ >     Let them share their experiences with you3 >w > -- > Jim Becker- > The Urban Institute (http://www.urban.org/) ) > Encompass (http://www.encompassus.org/)a0 > ESILUG (http://encompasserve.org/lugs/esilug/)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 23:45:31 +0300o: From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev{at}DeltaTelecom{dot}RU>- Subject: Re: VMS authentication to Windows ADv3 Message-ID: <7152063DB7AE4A2A663B237984060A6C@nntp>    Hi Michael,y? 	RADIUS server for OpenVMS can interact with M$ Window PDC/BDC.s  ! 	Have a look at www.radiusvms.como   Michael D. Ober wrote:  J > I need to have my users periodically change their passwords, but most ofL > them are computer illiterate (they have no idea what a command line is andM > sometimes have a hard time logging into a Windows Domain without help).  IshI > there anyway to have VMS authenticate to a Windows 2000 AD Domain?  I'mnM > reasonably sure I can train them to change their passwords when prompted byr
 > the domain.t >  > TCPIP SHO VER returns  > @ >  Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 - ECO 2: >   on a AlphaServer 1200 5/533 4MB running OpenVMS V7.3-1 > 	 > Thanks,f > Mike Ober. >  >  >    -- , Cheers, Ruslan.rD +---------------------pure personal opinion------------------------+C   RADIUS Server for OpenVMS project - www.starlet.spb.ru/radiusvms/t@   TKD (WTF) in Russia, St.-Petersburg - www.TaeKwonDo-WTF.SPb.RU   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2004 15:01:15 -08007 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)t$ Subject: Re: walking into a war zone= Message-ID: <8a646952.0401241501.46f32f3b@posting.google.com>   q emailforwes@earthlink.net (Wes Emerson) wrote in message news:<e6c6a64b.0401231240.7ebaf9a@posting.google.com>...AH > Okay, let me paint the picture for you, I am a seasoned Solaris, Linux? > and BSD admin with a few years and emergencies under my belt.- > D > Now some far flung part of the company wants me to troubleshoot an, > unknown Dec Vax box somewhere up the road. > F > I've downloaded the basic commands for text editors and moving about > the filesystems and what not.J > G > Now my question to the multitudes, are there any commands that can beiE > used to check hardware such as cpu's, memory, and discs to look fors > hardware failures. > @ > The Unix equivalents would be something lik dmesg (for generalF > status), the messages file (/var/log/messages or /var/adm/messages),G > if I'm really lucky prtdiag on solaris, and something that checks the/" > hard drives (solaris iostat -En. > ( > Any help would be greatly appreciated.   Dear Wes Emerson:e  D Besides the recommendation other have given. Here is a long shot! ItC depends if the DEC reps were kind to you and the VAX. Look into the = Sys$maintenance:, I believe and look for SPEAR. I had the DECu? maintenance people show me the tool. In the past, I have taught:B operators how to used it and it is easy to use. Just play with it.   I hope you the best of luck!   Regards, Daryl Jones1   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.048 ************************.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,4555638.00,17773524  > L > 21-JAN-2004 01:34:12.66,21-JAN-2004 01:35:12,151,12,104,12,82)
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.d >>> 226 Transfer completed.d; <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/freewarev50/ghostscript/gs-6_01/1H >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev50/ghostscript/gs-6_01.	 <<< PWDWR >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/freewarev50/ghostscript/gs-6_01" is current directory. <<< CWD examplesQ >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev50/ghostscript/gs-6_01/examples.  <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,12,83)
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.  >>> 226 Transfer completed. ; <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/freewarev50/ghostscript/gs-6_01/ H >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev50/ghostscript/gs-6_01.	 <<< PWD R >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/freewarev50/ghostscript/gs-6_01" is current directory. <<< CWD fonts>N >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev50/ghostscript/gs-6_01/fonts. <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,12,84)
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.  >>> 226 Transfer completed. ; <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/freewarev50/ghostscript/gs-6_01/ H >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev50/ghostscript/gs-6_01.	 <<< PWD R >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/freewarev50/ghostscript/gs-6_01" is current directory. <<< CWD jpeg-6bP >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev50/ghostscript/gs-6_01/jpeg-6b. <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,12,85)
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.> >>> 226 Transfer completed.<; <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/freewarev50/ghostscript/gs-6_01/>H >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev50/ghostscript/gs-6_01.	 <<< PWD>R >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/freewarev50/ghostscript/gs-6_01" is current directory.
 <<< CWD lib L >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev50/ghostscript/gs-6_01/lib. <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode;