0 INFO-VAX	Tue, 27 Jan 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 52      Contents: Re: Alpha 4100 power supply  Re: Alpha 4100 power supply  Re: Alpha 4100 power supply  Re: another 911  Re: asspache web server  Re: DCPS 2.3 on OpenVMS 7.3-2 A Experiences with Tivoli Storage Manager and Archive Backup Client E Re: Experiences with Tivoli Storage Manager and Archive Backup Client E Re: Experiences with Tivoli Storage Manager and Archive Backup Client 8 Flashing lights on my disk drives on an Alphaserver ES40
 ftp attack- Re: Get your FREE M e z e i Autoposter Today!  Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!  Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!  Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!  Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!  Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!  Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!  Re: HSZ50 problem  Re: HSZ50 problem  Re: HSZ50 problem $ Re: HTML posting (was Re: Fraud ...)B Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheapB Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheapB Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheapB Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheapB Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheap Re: JF Mezei Text Generator * RE: Known problems with V7.3 security MUP?* RE: Known problems with V7.3 security MUP?* Re: Known problems with V7.3 security MUP?P Re: OpenVMS I64 Compilers (was: Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or .P Re: OpenVMS I64 Compilers (was: Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or . PIPE and modified DCL table  Re: PIPE and modified DCL table  Re: PIPE and modified DCL table  Re: PIPE and modified DCL table  Re: PIPE and modified DCL table  Re: PIPE and modified DCL table  Re: PIPE and modified DCL table  TCP/IP Services  Re: TCP/IP Services  Re: TCP/IP Services 6 Re: Trouble installing VMS AXP Hobbyist on a PWS 600au6 Re: Trouble installing VMS AXP Hobbyist on a PWS 600au- Re: What is mystery object in VMS screensaver   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:35:01 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)$ Subject: Re: Alpha 4100 power supply. Message-ID: <bv4165$2hg$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  x Javier Henderson <javier@KJSL.COM> writes in article <86isiy1rte.fsf@skylane.kjsl.com> dated 26 Jan 2004 10:35:25 -0800:B >I've laid my hands on an Alpha 4100. Very studly. But, it needs aA >power supply. This is purely for personal use, not for business.   I FWIW, the Alphaserver 4100s I have used have 3 power supply bays but only J need 2 working power supplies to function.  And they are hot-swappable, soH if you have 3 and 1 breaks, you can replace it without taking the system down.   > So... if you have 0, you need 2.  If you have 2, you're set.    0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2004 14:55:27 -0800( From: Javier Henderson <javier@KJSL.COM>$ Subject: Re: Alpha 4100 power supply- Message-ID: <86ektm1fs0.fsf@skylane.kjsl.com>   ( Mike Dorn <mrdorn@wavefront.com> writes:   > Keith A. Lewis wrote: | > > Javier Henderson <javier@KJSL.COM> writes in article <86isiy1rte.fsf@skylane.kjsl.com> dated 26 Jan 2004 10:35:25 -0800: > > E > >>I've laid my hands on an Alpha 4100. Very studly. But, it needs a D > >>power supply. This is purely for personal use, not for business.H > > FWIW, the Alphaserver 4100s I have used have 3 power supply bays but > > onlyN > > need 2 working power supplies to function.  And they are hot-swappable, soL > > if you have 3 and 1 breaks, you can replace it without taking the system	 > > down. @ > > So... if you have 0, you need 2.  If you have 2, you're set.4 > > --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.orgB > > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.H > A slight correction.  Depending on your configuration, you may be able= > to get by with a single supply.  The 4100 will hold up to 4 B > processors. I beleive you can run up to 2 CPUs on a single powerG > supply; you need a second supply when you add a third processor.  You A > can have an extra supply for power redundancy, but they are NOT E > hot-swappable.  You need to shut down and open the box to replace a A > supply.  There is also a special internal cable you need to add = > between the supplies when installing more than one of them.  > % > (Great box, though--very reliable.)   F Thanks for the info. The box has zero power supplies, so it looks like I will need at least one.   H The search for a 4100 p/s continues... no idea where to find one though.   -jav   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:15:15 -0600 & From: Mike Dorn <mrdorn@wavefront.com>$ Subject: Re: Alpha 4100 power supply; Message-ID: <40159174$0$41288$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>    Keith A. Lewis wrote: z > Javier Henderson <javier@KJSL.COM> writes in article <86isiy1rte.fsf@skylane.kjsl.com> dated 26 Jan 2004 10:35:25 -0800: > C >>I've laid my hands on an Alpha 4100. Very studly. But, it needs a B >>power supply. This is purely for personal use, not for business. >  > K > FWIW, the Alphaserver 4100s I have used have 3 power supply bays but only L > need 2 working power supplies to function.  And they are hot-swappable, soJ > if you have 3 and 1 breaks, you can replace it without taking the system > down.  > @ > So... if you have 0, you need 2.  If you have 2, you're set.   > 2 > --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.G A slight correction.  Depending on your configuration, you may be able  H to get by with a single supply.  The 4100 will hold up to 4 processors. H   I beleive you can run up to 2 CPUs on a single power supply; you need G a second supply when you add a third processor.  You can have an extra  G supply for power redundancy, but they are NOT hot-swappable.  You need  D to shut down and open the box to replace a supply.  There is also a A special internal cable you need to add between the supplies when  ! installing more than one of them.   # (Great box, though--very reliable.)    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 04:59:03 GMT * From: Steven Fisher <sdfisher@spamcop.net> Subject: Re: another 911. Message-ID: <remRb.300322$ts4.240728@pd7tw3no>   You Are Sick wrote:   > > IP address from Canada.  Not surprising.  Probably JF Mezei.  H What the fuck? Do you really think we care about your trolls? Keep your  trash on your own group.   --  G "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice."    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:37:34 -0800 0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>  Subject: Re: asspache web server' Message-ID: <40150a0e$1@cpns1.saic.com>    JF Mezei wrote: ! > david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:  > ; >>Supporting just stream_lf files is simply not acceptable.  >  > N > In fairness, it is also the fault of VMS/RMS engineers who only provided for9 > file size hints on streamlf files and not on all files.   H You've got that backwards.  File size hints are provided for those file G organizations for which the data cannot be calculated quickly.  Stream  H files and fixed length files are the exceptions (they don't get or need ' hints), other sequential file types do.   O > This is the same with the /TAIL qualifier which doesn't work on indexed files  > (which can be TYPEd),   I TYPE/TAIL on an indexed file doesn't really make sense.  What determines  E what the tail is?  When you select what determines the tail you need  G indexed support in order to manipulate it which is beyond the scope of  
 TYPE/TAIL.  I The ability to open an indexed file in non-indexed mode and then read in  F order by primary key is a function offerred by RMS.  Reading a key in G reverse direction when not in Indexed mode is not (and really can't be  F in a pure sequential mode).  Type/Tail works by going to the physical B end of the file, backing up a bit and then displaying (simplified > explanation).  You simply cannot do that with an indexed file.  7 > nor with files where certain records exceed a certain 9 > length. It should work on all files which can be typed.   B Then record length restriction can be addressed (and is either in ' progress or completed, I forget which).   
 Mark Berryman    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:49:36 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> & Subject: Re: DCPS 2.3 on OpenVMS 7.3-20 Message-ID: <LfSdnQuSK7YwXojdRVn-sw@comcast.com>  H Did you remember change all instances of the hostname from OLD to NEW?  H You'll find the hostname used in an /ON=:HOST:: on /AUTOSTART_ON=HOST::.   Harri Klemetti wrote:    >Hi, > B >I have a problem with DCPS 2.3 running on a new AS DS15 / OpenVMS >7.3-2.  > A >When trying to create execution queues for HP 8000N printers the E >queues wont start. They remain stopped. I analyzed further and found ? >out that trying to issue $ START/QUEUE for these queues always  >produces an -F-ABORT error. > G >The queue definitions in DCPS$STARTUP.COM were initially imported from > >an older machine where these same settings worked flawlessly. >  >Any ideas?  >  >-Harri  >    >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:08:28 -0600 ( From: David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com>J Subject: Experiences with Tivoli Storage Manager and Archive Backup Client8 Message-ID: <q20b10p9vhj03h8vm69q3e4fhcrfihksa5@4ax.com>  E 	We are in the process of evaluating options for backup solutions for C our VMS systems.  Since we have Tivoli Storage Manager (TSM) as our N "enterprise backup solution" we will be evaluation using that as an option for our systems.  H So, I was looking for any experiences with the ABC product, good, bad orL indifferent you would like to share.  Also a rough idea of your environment,% size of databases to be back up, etc.    Thanks,    Dave Harrold  N ..............................................................................N David Harrold                              E-Mail: David.Harrold at aurora.orgJ Lead Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-6204J                                             Pager:          (414) 941-4634J Aurora Health Care                            Fax:          (414) 647-4999 3031 W. Montana Street Milwaukee, WI 53215    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2004 19:00:13 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) N Subject: Re: Experiences with Tivoli Storage Manager and Archive Backup Client3 Message-ID: <vlMQeoaE0rhB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <q20b10p9vhj03h8vm69q3e4fhcrfihksa5@4ax.com>, David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com> writes: G > 	We are in the process of evaluating options for backup solutions for E > our VMS systems.  Since we have Tivoli Storage Manager (TSM) as our P > "enterprise backup solution" we will be evaluation using that as an option for > our systems. > J > So, I was looking for any experiences with the ABC product, good, bad orN > indifferent you would like to share.  Also a rough idea of your environment,' > size of databases to be back up, etc.  >   > 	I have a lot of good experience with the ABC.  Using Multinet> 	and dual-ported 100 MBit card, we are writing at 20 MB/sec to> 	a Tivoli server.  We backup 50 GBytes or so in about an hour.  A 	Going forward, we are upgrading to GBit and I expect to at least > 	double throughput (but would be shocked to hit 80 MByte/sec).  D 	I wrote a 1500 line DCL backup wrapper for ABC, some of which looks 	like this:     
 $ DISPATCHER:  $       call resubmit  $       call general_cleanup $       call delete_queues! $       call create_manage_queues ' $       call parse_and_dispatch_configs & $       call submit_watcher_of_backups $       return    	 $ BACKUP:  $       call 'full_routine' ! $       call check_if_last_backup  $       call gather_statistics $       return     $ POSTBACK: ! $       call 'postbackup_routine'  $       return  
 $ WATCHER: $       call 'full_routine'  $       return     $ Backup_TSM_Shadow: $ subroutine $ !  $ !     Backup Shadow to TSM $ !  $       gosub perform_prebackup  $       gosub perform_backup  $       gosub perform_postbackup $       exit $ !  $ perform_prebackup: $       if PreBack .nes. "NULL"  $       then3 $               call 'PreBack' 'Shadowset' 'Target' 
 $       endif  $       return $ !  $ perform_backup:  $ !  $       ltarg = Target - ":"J $       SummaryFile     = Log_Dir + ltarg + "_" + start_yyyymmdd + ".SUMM" $ !   $       if InclExcl .nes. "NULL" $       then6 $               InclExclfile = "/INCLEXCL=''InclExcl'" $       else! $               InclExclfile = "" 
 $       endif  $ ! K $       ABC_COMMAND     =       "ABC INCREMENTAL /IGNORE=INTERLOCK "    + - K                                 "/SUMMARY=(CREATE,FILE=''SummaryFile')" + - K                                 "/NORECORD"                             + - K                                 "''InclExclfile'"                       + - 1                                 "/CLASS=''Class'"  $ !  $ !  Safety check...    : 	Conceptually, it is a bit to get and be comfortable with = 	INCREMENTAL backups, but Google whitepapers help explain it. A 	I keep an online copy of the system disk as "bare metal" restore : 	of a VMS system disk via ABC is not a comforting thought.  # 	Best thing?  Very rapid restores.     $ directory %.%;  A A.A;1               B.B;27              C.C;4               D.2;2 A D.D;31              E.E;1               F.F;6               G.G;2 A H.H;1               I.I;1               L.L;4               M.M;2 A N.N;1               O.O;1               Q.1;1               Q.2;1 B Q.Q;2               Q.R;1               R.R;7               S.S;12A T.T;12              U.U;4               V.V;1               W.W;1  X.X;1               Y.Y;1    Total of 26 files.   $ show time    26-JAN-2004 19:35:55   $ abc show backup q.r ; Archive Backup Client for ADSM on OpenVMS, Version V3.1.0.6 8 Copyright 1996-2003, Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc.E DISK$NAME:[USERS.YOUNGR]Q.R;1 (A)             2   5-NOV-2003 02:56:15    $ show time    26-JAN-2004 19:35:57    > 	Point here is I located that file in 2 seconds.  Restoring ofD 	course will take longer - maybe.  If you have a very large TSM disk: 	pool and everything resides in that disk pool... restores7 	would fly faster (no mounting tapes).  SATA is getting ? 	cheap and you could use it in DR type fashion and ... well you  	get the picture.   2 	Finally, a number of ABC discussions reside here:  c http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=abc+tivoli+rob+group%3Acomp.os.vms    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:28:48 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>N Subject: Re: Experiences with Tivoli Storage Manager and Archive Backup Client6 Message-ID: <1040126202108.33368A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  ) On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, David Harrold wrote:   G > 	We are in the process of evaluating options for backup solutions for E > our VMS systems.  Since we have Tivoli Storage Manager (TSM) as our P > "enterprise backup solution" we will be evaluation using that as an option for > our systems. > J > So, I was looking for any experiences with the ABC product, good, bad orN > indifferent you would like to share.  Also a rough idea of your environment,' > size of databases to be back up, etc.  > 	 > Thanks,  >  > Dave Harrold  E One customer is using it at a large datacenter.  They are running our D software on a small cluster (pair of VAX 66xx's) which use ABC to doD the application backups.  Seems to work fine usually.  I had nothingB to do with the server end (I believe it is running on Sun), exceptB early on, we had a few problems with retention that we reported toE the server folks and they fixed.  (It was supposed to be saving stuff E for about a year but was actually only saving for a couple of months, 3 since they had us using the wrong archive class...)   , Since then, it has been working pretty well.  C I think we had to do some magic so we could backup and restore from A either node of the cluster.  I forget the details, but if you are ( curious, I could probably track it down.   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2004 17:30:38 -0800$ From: rcbryan@hotmail.com (RC Bryan)A Subject: Flashing lights on my disk drives on an Alphaserver ES40 = Message-ID: <fbcf38dc.0401261730.211c64e0@posting.google.com>    Guys:   E My wonderful ES40 decided to hang, forcing me to press the big button D on the front.  When it came up again, it could not read from any DKAD devices and the lights on my disk drives were all flashing together.   The flash pattern is: 
 On:  4 sec! Off: 1/2 sec (or so, quite short) ! On:  1/2 sec (or so, quite short) 
 Off: 1 sec
 On:  2 sec Off: 30 sec   > The disk drives say they are "36 GB Wide Ultra3 SCSI, HotPlug,
 [177986-001]"   C I looked and looked on the web and I can't find anything that gives  this any meaning.   @ Since it is unlikely all my drives would die at the same time, I; figure there is probably something wrong with the SCSI bus.   A It pains me to get a service call without having any idea what is 	 going on.   E Any ideas anybody?  Is this in some kind of manual I should have been  able to find this in?    Thanks, 	 /RC Bryan    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2004 21:14:17 -0800C From: gconstantinides@myrealbox.com (gconstantinides@myrealbox.com)  Subject: ftp attack = Message-ID: <d28edccd.0401262114.2494ef53@posting.google.com>    Hi all,   @ I want to disable unwanted incoming ftp access. But I want to be1 able to request outgoing ftp requests to anywere.   ( I am running TPPIP V5.3 on OpenVMS V7.2.  7 tcpip> SET SERVICE/ACCEPT=NETWORK=x.x.x.0:255.255.255.0   : should limit access to from the specified static ip range.  > Is this correct?   Does this apply to incoming requestes only?  5 Do I also have to set SET SERVICE/ACCEPT=HOST=<what?>    At the moment the settings are:    Security  Reject msg:  not defined   Accept host: 0.0.0.0   Accept netw: 0.0.0.0    thanks in advance  gc   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2004 20:25:10 -0000 From: Hmmm <hmmm@hmmm.hmm>6 Subject: Re: Get your FREE M e z e i Autoposter Today!7 Message-ID: <G5LN9Q5838012.6008101852@anonymous.poster>   F Gregory Morrow <gregoryTHEBESTOFEVERYTHINGmorrow@earthlink.net> wrote:   >  >Get It Today wrote: > I >> Yes Sir!  Yes Maam!  You too can now make your very own quick and easy K >> Do It Yourself At Home JF M e z e i Usenet Message Generator/Autoposter! L >> Just feed the following words and phrases, culled from thousands of M e z >e iM >> troll postings in rec.travel.air,  into any simple text randomizer and the 	 >> output @ >> will look like a genuine 100% bona fide JF M e z e i message: >> >> nop [sic] >> foreskin  >> Bush regime >> USA police state  >> oil revenus [sic]	 >> Cheney  >> Rumsfeld  >> Wolfowitz >> axis of evil  >> cars are evil >> bicycles rule	 >> smegma  >> what is really at stake here  >> what you must understand  >> no WMDs found >> UN  >> War Crime Trinunal  >> US evil empire  >> fabricating evidence  >> UK loyal lapdog >> Americans obese
 >> fat sweaty ' >> masturbate/masturbation/masturbating % >> healthy men do it five times a day % >> Cubans have higher life expectancy  >> Saddam Hussein  >> US invasion of Iraq( >> American idiots will believe anything >> US brainwash it's people  >> US invaders >> What americans aren't told ' >> Nonstop New York to Tokyo via Dallas  >> Don't call me Shirley >>J >> With this M e z e i Message Generator anyone can enjoy endless hours of >funB >> trolling usenet like JF M e z e i.  Great for the whole family! >> >  >  >And don't forget: >  >Dorval  >Canadian Pacific   G Oh Lord!  How could I ever forget M e z e i arguing with other posters, N insisting that when Canadian Pacific code-shared with AA, it meant that CP andL AA EACH ran the exact same flights, on the exact same equipment (i.e. A320 -P LOL), at the exact same times.  To him, that was the definition of a code-share.   >May I call you Ellen?   ROTFL!  That's a classic.    >Lubrication  P Yeah, it must be that residual lube on his fingers after wanking that allows him* to type so many troll posts.  Astro-Glide?   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2004 12:27:25 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ( Subject: Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!3 Message-ID: <y$mGuV0nlpjw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <6.0.1.1.2.20040126125101.064e4ec0@mail.patmedia.net>, Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net> writes: 6 > At 12:26 PM 1/26/2004, norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: > M >>This appears to be the hp/Interex-sponsored convention, albeit with OpenVMS 
 >>content.G >>What's happening with the hp/Encompass-sponsored technical symposium?  > P > See <http://www.encompassus.org/events/2004conffaq.html> for more information.  M In summary, it moved to the Fall, which is what causes the 2004 VMS Symposium % in New Hampshire to be in the Spring.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:53:46 GMT , From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net>( Subject: Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!. Message-ID: <efeRb.27976$U%5.181860@attbi_s03>  F You can take a train from O'Hare or Midway / downtown (aka loop) for <K $2.00.  Don't recall them smelling bad.  My daughter is a student at DePaul K University just a few miles north of the loop and she's never complained of J abnormal train odors.  I was born and raised in Chicago and don't consider it a pit, thanks.   G Driving (and parking) in Chicago is as good or bad as in any large city  these days.   G Once situated in the loop, getting to and from McCormick Place where hp I world will be held, is just a short and probably free shuttle ride to and  fro.  L So yes, hp World will be held in the downtown Chicago area and yes there areK lots of good places to eat.  You'll also be close to some of world's finest G museums, the Shedd Aquarium and the Art Institute, none of which you're & likely to find in the burbs, anywhere.  L On the other hand, if hp World were in the burbs, you'd likely be close to a mall.  Maybe two.     3 "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com> wrote in message 7 news:cc5619f2.0401260904.11299175@posting.google.com... 7 > Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message , news:<4015065B.290D929F@sture.homeip.net>... > > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > > > G > > > > Does it say specifically where?  I hate travelling into chi-pit 	 proper...  > > >  > > > And what is that ? > >  > > Chicago-Pittsburgh?  > C > chicago is a pit.  A nasty place to have to travel to, the trains F > smell, the parking is too expensive, the roads to where you can parkF > are gridlocked.  I'm hoping that HP is not set on doing things in orH > near the downtown area, and are aiming at one of the suburban options. >  > otoh the food is good... >  > Rich   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2004 14:18:37 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ( Subject: Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!3 Message-ID: <EUBJ5fI1TxQq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <cc5619f2.0401260904.11299175@posting.google.com>, jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes:  C > chicago is a pit.  A nasty place to have to travel to, the trains F > smell, the parking is too expensive, the roads to where you can park > are gridlocked.   G    It's been years since I lived near Chicago, but every time I visit I A    find the downtown area quite clean, except for the river.  The F    commuter trains used to be good, but I don't know how they are now.F    The el' trains I don't know about.  Amtrack into and out of Chicago!    was good just a few years ago.   D    O'Hare won't be your favorite airport, but many others are worse.  B    The lakefront park is generally in good shape, with world-class    attractions.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:12:14 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ( Subject: Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!F Message-ID: <OofRb.2449$9Ce1.653@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Dave Gudewicz wrote:H > You can take a train from O'Hare or Midway / downtown (aka loop) for <F > $2.00.  Don't recall them smelling bad.  My daughter is a student atF > DePaul University just a few miles north of the loop and she's neverG > complained of abnormal train odors.  I was born and raised in Chicago & > and don't consider it a pit, thanks. > D > Driving (and parking) in Chicago is as good or bad as in any large > city these days. > F > Once situated in the loop, getting to and from McCormick Place whereG > hp world will be held, is just a short and probably free shuttle ride 
 > to and fro.  > D > So yes, hp World will be held in the downtown Chicago area and yesE > there are lots of good places to eat.  You'll also be close to some F > of world's finest museums, the Shedd Aquarium and the Art Institute,= > none of which you're likely to find in the burbs, anywhere.  > C > On the other hand, if hp World were in the burbs, you'd likely be  > close to a mall.  Maybe two.  I Hey, Chicago isn't so bad....lots of great architecture and good food (as  previously mentioned).  J Nothing wrong with Marshall Field....architecture is interesting...Tiffany ceiling in the atrium.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2004 16:10:53 -0800& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)( Subject: Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0401261610.66b12d82@posting.google.com>   | jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) wrote in message news:<8a646952.0401260955.73677a89@posting.google.com>...d > Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net> wrote in message news:<QCudnUke9vLVHYndXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>... > > David J. Dachtera wrote:L > > > Imagine my glee when I went to the P.O. box yesterday and found the hpN > > > propaganda for hpWorld-2004 indicating it was right here in Chicago this! > > > year! 16- thru 20-Aug-2004.  > > > K > > Does it say specifically where?  I hate travelling into chi-pit proper   > > if it can be avoided...  > >  > > Rich >  > Dear Rich Jordan:  > F > The driving distance between Chicago, IL and Pittsburgh, Pa is aboutD > 460 miles (~760 Km) driven and go through two states, Indiana, and( > Ohio. I can understand your avoidance. >   @ Nothing to do with Pittsburgh, just my disdain for the city, and> especially the downtown; I had to do a near year long stint (3F days/week) of commuting from the NW suburbs to a place downtown, north of the el-loop.   C Drive 9+ miles to metra station, pay for parking (at least this was F cheap), train cars were usually full so stand until someone got off atF a later stop.  Yes, they do smell, some days worse than others; summerF was the worst despite the air conditioning.  Then quick walk to eitherE river taxi or el-train (or face a long walk, which was OK on the rare E pleasantly cool day).  Either dropped off 4-5 blocks from destination E (did you know the river smells too?   Not a nice fishy outdoors smell E either, and if you sit in the wrong spot on the boat you get to smell E like the river too...).  Get tied into huge walking blobs of humanity > who you were stuck with (and in) until you could get into yourD building.  Rinse and repeat for the trip home.  The only bright spotC was that the drive home from the metra station was late enough that  traffic was light.  B Added 4+ hours to my commute every day.  Much the same thing would7 happen with a convention.  Its extremely high overhead.   C If I drove my truck, the commute _might_ have been shortened to 100 E minutes each way, assuming I could find an available ($20+/day at the E time, higher now) parking garage near enough to the destination to be E worth it, _and_ get the customer to reimburse parking and gas (hah!), D _and_ assuming the frequent traffic clogs endemic to the area didn't
 interfere.  ? Gold Coast dogs and sandwiches were very good, once you get the F worker's attitude (work fast you have hordes of customers to process).C  Billy Goat tavern was interesting, some good, some too greasy.  No # time or money for the fancy places.   @ I think huge cities are an acquired taste.  Kind of like chilledF monkey brains.  Conventions are better held in more congenial, trafficB friendly, parking friendly, nearer the airport surrounds.  BTW, asD past 'exhibitor' help at cons in San Diego, Las Vegas, and once onlyE in Chicago, I'd also say Chicago proper is the last place I'd want to F exhibit; you take your life into your hands if you unplug an extension cord or change a light bulb...   Rich  E (PS to Chi-town afficionados... its the only huge city I've more than F briefly visited; didn't like NYC on the one trip either, so don't take it personally).    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:56:44 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>( Subject: Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!6 Message-ID: <4015B74C.3692AF11@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Rich Jordan wrote: > d > Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message news:<4015065B.290D929F@sture.homeip.net>... > > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > > > Q > > > > Does it say specifically where?  I hate travelling into chi-pit proper...  > > >  > > > And what is that ? > >  > > Chicago-Pittsburgh?  >  > chicago is a pit.   @ Murder capital of the U.S. because guns have been outlawed here;G therefore, only outlaws have guns, and the outlaws know this and flaunt E it. The mayor has blatantly defied the FAA and federal prosecutors by G not only vandalizing an airport, but then purloining the media to boast 9 of his crime and his "teflon shield" against prosecution.   0 > A nasty place to have to travel to, the trains > smell,  D It varies. The commuter trains (*NOT* the rapid transit) are usually< fairly clean, though the older cars sometimes smell like theF disinfectant they use at the zoo. The rapid transit trains are for the fool-hardy adventurers only.   > the parking is too expensive,   G ...not to mention the parking tickets. How many other major cities have  a "bureau of parking"?  ! > the roads to where you can park  > are gridlocked.   7 If you value your vehicle, *NEVER* park it on a street!   5 > I'm hoping that HP is not set on doing things in or H > near the downtown area, and are aiming at one of the suburban options.  C Well, McCormick Place is on the lake front, next to the wreckage of H Meigs Field (the scene of his dishonor's crime). hp is promising shuttle busses to the host hotel(s).   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:52:02 -0600 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>  Subject: Re: HSZ50 problem3 Message-ID: <4015B632.7328A4C9@applied-synergy.com>    Stuart Fuller wrote: >  > Chris Scheers wrote: > I > > I have an HSZ50 that has been off for a couple of months while things ! > > were being moved and rewired.  > > G > > Upon turning it back on, the controller now fails power up with the ' > > first two lights lit, and displays:  > >  > I > If by "first two lights", you're referring to lights 5 and 6, then this  > indicates: > 7 >         NVMEM write error : replace controller module  > G > Or, if you referring to lights 1 and 2 blinking, then this indicates:  > 9 >         Journal SRAM is bad : replace controller module     6 Actually, it is lights 1 and 2 on solid, not blinking.  E I'm sure the standard response is "replace controller module".  I was 2 hoping there might be some other solution.  <grin>  * What happens when the coin cell goes flat?  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:58:13 -0600 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>  Subject: Re: HSZ50 problem3 Message-ID: <4015B7A5.CBA243C1@applied-synergy.com>    "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote:  >  > Chris, > J > What is the state of your cache battery backup?   I've never experiencedH > it myself but the battery can turn to sludge if it's not kept charged. > I > If the battery has not yet turned to sludge, it may need something like1J > 24 hours to become fully charged.  The HSZ50 won't be happy until it has > a fully charged battery.  ( Actually, no cache battery.  (CACHE_UPS)  8 I'm wondering what happens when the coin cell goes flat.     > Chris Scheers wrote: > H > >I have an HSZ50 that has been off for a couple of months while things  > >were being moved and rewired. > >nF > >Upon turning it back on, the controller now fails power up with the& > >first two lights lit, and displays: > >- > >Mist Diag Error  00000030 > >Mist Diag Param1 A3FFFFFC > >Mist Diag Param2 04000000 > >Mist Diag Param3 BB00000D > >o< > >I can't find a description of this in the service manual. > >53 > >What is the meaning of this, can I fix it, etc.?e > >LA > >In addition to the information above, more data is dumped.  IfcH > >necessary, I can get this.  (The system isn't wired up to something I > >can cut and past from yet.) > >c	 > >Thanx!   G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com M   Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:25:11 -0500c' From: Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net>s Subject: Re: HSZ50 problem0 Message-ID: <oml4vb.ajv.ln@dadsys2.fuller.local>   Chris Scheers wrote:   > Stuart Fuller wrote: >> n >> Chris Scheers wrote:u >> cJ >> > I have an HSZ50 that has been off for a couple of months while things" >> > were being moved and rewired. >> >H >> > Upon turning it back on, the controller now fails power up with the( >> > first two lights lit, and displays: >> > >>  J >> If by "first two lights", you're referring to lights 5 and 6, then this
 >> indicates:P >> y8 >>         NVMEM write error : replace controller module >> aH >> Or, if you referring to lights 1 and 2 blinking, then this indicates: >> -: >>         Journal SRAM is bad : replace controller module >  > 8 > Actually, it is lights 1 and 2 on solid, not blinking. > G > I'm sure the standard response is "replace controller module".  I was64 > hoping there might be some other solution.  <grin> > , > What happens when the coin cell goes flat? >   I Well, Chris, you're in luck.  You don't have to wonder anymore.  I did a  K little research, and the error you see is an indication that the coin cell l has gone flat.    L I suppose you can replace the coin cell, but you run into the other problem K of setting all the information that that coin cell was remembering.  Then,  + you're back to "replace controller module".c  " I see there's one on eBay for $25.  
 Good luck!   --             Stu    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2004 20:43:13 -0000 From: Hmmm <hmmm@hmmm.hmm>- Subject: Re: HTML posting (was Re: Fraud ...) 7 Message-ID: <YVJ046WT38012.6133449074@anonymous.poster>5  + J F  M e z e i <nobody@nobody.com> trolled:.  $ >What does HTML add to discussions ?  / Hmmm ... the same could be asked about you, eh?   K >When you're in a bar, do you try to dress up your conversations/debates byi0 >signing or arranging your sentences in poetry ? >sN >Adding colour, or making your text in a font so small it is hard to read does5 >not add any value to a discussion. It removes value.d > O >Usenet existed when Bill Gates still had his teenage ultra thick geek glasses. J >And it took more than a decade for Gates to realise that the internet wasN >important. And when he finally jumped in, he had total disregard for existingN >standards and let loose millions of copies of poorly configured software that: >didn't follow established standards and usenet etiquette.  O Sort of like your total disregard for newsgroups when you let loose millions ofa trolls posts.....n  J >The poor souls who didn't know better thought that Microsoft had followedO >standards and are still convinced to this day that HTML posting is OK, or that O >sending one long line per paragraph instead of ending each line with a CRLF isu >acceptable. >sM >go read the RFCs, go read the charter for the newsgroups you participate in.fL >ant content type other than text/plain is reserved to newsgroups containing( >the "binary" or "binaries" in its name.  K Sort of hard to find anything nowadays in the midst of the vast sea of youri troll posts.....   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:01:01 GMTh& From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>K Subject: Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheap43 Message-ID: <NtdRb.13084$rg2.7065@news.cpqcorp.net>.  ) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: B > In other words, a 4-way POWER4+ system would clearly exceed 100KF > tpmC in performance, the only question being whether it would exceedE > it sufficiently to beat the best 4-way scores that Itanic can post.i  C Indeed.  Certainly, if it does not beat the four-way Itanium score,e= IBM cannot publish it or it would deflate per-CPU performancey
 arguments.  E > If the p690 scaled between 4-way and large systems as poorly as theyE > Itanic2 TPC-C entries do a 4-way p690 box would score close to 200K1D > tpmC, but the POWER4/4+ architecture, unlike Itanic's, is designedC > to scale well, so it's also possible that a 4-way top-of-the-linehF > POWER4+ box would come in second behind HP's zx1 chipset - still not > exactly shabby  E It might be good to be a bit more explicit about the processor versusi@ the environment in which it is placed in a given system.  At theA present time, to say a system has zx1 also says the system has ann< Itanium2 processor.  However, there will not always be a 1-1E correspondence between the zx1 or sx1000 chipsets and IPF processors. E I believe it is already common knowldge that the PA-8000 will also bel? plugging into the zx1 and sx1000 chipsets.  So, it will be moreyC important to be (perhaps painfully) clear when one is talking abouto# the chipsets versus the processors.e  @ > given the intense TPC-C competition at this node size, but IBMC > apparently gives its customers sufficient credit for intelligenceGC > that it sees little need to post a full range of TPC-C scores for  > the p-Series.a  E Your faith on IBM is laudable - however, did you really mean to imply:C that a larger number of TPC submittals on the part of a vendor is ao bad thing? o  E Unless and until IBM sees fit to publish a 4-CPU POWER4+ TPC-C result E (or perhaps anything less than a 32-way), whether the lack of results E indicates a lack of performance, or a serene confidence cannot reallyy be asserted with confidence.  
 rick jones -- -G oxymoron n, Hummer H2 with California Save Our Coasts and Oceans plateskF these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...a   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jan 2004 21:39:17 GMT1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones),K Subject: Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheap : Message-ID: <bv41e5$qdq$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  ( In message <4015842B.BAD8E8FB@istop.com>.   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:H >With VMS's compiler people having been donated to Intel, one has to askG >whether the compilers available on VMS will be able to follow the IA64lR >hardware, or whether VMS will lag behind HPUX and Linux for the latest compilers.  L I recall at one point they announced that VMS/IA64 would use the same formatN object files as UNIX (coff?), so keeping the compilers current should be a lot less difficult.       < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet:oL 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.l   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:29:28 GMTe& From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>K Subject: Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheaph3 Message-ID: <sUdRb.13088$rg2.7575@news.cpqcorp.net>r  ) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:s  5 > "Rick Jones" <foo@bar.baz.invalid> wrote in messager/ > news:1IeQb.12933$Zm6.5178@news.cpqcorp.net...hC >> So, then the issue isn't that the figures were obtained from the B >> same compiler and chipset, but the volumes of that compiler and >> chipset.R  > > The actual issue is that the only Itanic configurations thatE > generate really good SPECint performance numbers (HP-UX on HP's zx1 F > chipset, SGI's platform using the new V8 compiler) aren't typical of0 > the broader (such as it may be) Itanic market,  E Back-up a few steps there - I thought that one of your past arguments D against Itanium was that HP systems were de fact the broader ItaniumF market.  Certainly HP+SGI would seem to be the broader Itanium market.  C > whereas the Xeon configurations that generate really good SPECintoD > performance numbers pretty much span the Xeon market.  Hence IntelE > (perhaps unlike HP, though HP still has the HP-UX-specific compilerwF > hurdle to clear) has a better Xeon performance story to tell to OEMs2 > and customers than its Itanic performance story,  A I don't particular care to bash Xeon here, I'm more interested in4F exploring the validity of the agrument being used against Itanium, butD how many of those good Xeon results have used anything other than anE Intel chipset and compiler?  The good Itanium results have spanned atoE least two chipsets and compilers.  Perhaps more than two chipsets - I C do not know what chipset Bull uses in their NovaScale results.  I'mpB confident it isn't an HP chipset, it seems unlikely to be the sameE chipset as SGI.  Alas Dell has not published any figures with the 8.0oA compiler - I suspect that Dell systems use the Intel IPF chipset.   H >> Given that there aren't any under 32-way POWER4+'s there.  However, ID >> don't see where that means that HP is only looking at low-end forH >> Itanium - one, I'm not sure that 16-way consitutes "low-end" and two,+ >> the various Integrity Superdome figures.   F > You mis-parsed my statement, which was that Itanic vendors have moreD > interest in pushing Itanics in the low end than IBM has in pushingF > POWER4+ in the low end - at least as indicated by TPC-C submissions.F > It said nothing about Itanic vendors having more interest in pushingF > Itanics in the low end than in pushing Itanics in the high end: thatD > would be especially silly in the case of those Itanic vendors who,8 > unlike HP, have no platform optimized for the low end.  F So I can avoid confusion later, what do you consider a low-end system?F Is it one with 4 CPUs? < 4 CPUs?  And are you sure you worded the lastC sentence there the way you meant?  Up to now, you seem to have beenm= more critical of the sx1000 chipsets (high-end) than the zx1.r  D > As Andrew just pointed out (and as I implied just above), they canC > hardly have anything to hide unless by some magic the p690 scaleseB > *super*-linearly up to 32 processors.  Pure linear scaling wouldF > yield a TPC-C score of nearly 100K for a 4-processor POWER4+ system,E > and that ignores the fact that it would have twice as much L3 cacheuA > per processor as the full-boat p690 (that cache may not be very B > fast, but it still counts for something) and zero off-MCM memory
 > references d  @ Presumeably, IBM has no particular interest in seeing Itanium be; successful yes?  Certainly, they have no interest in seeingaF Hewlett-Packard be successful. Why then, if they were in a position to? stick it to HP, by publishing a 4-CPU POWER4+ TPC-C result thatl@ exceeded HP's 4-CPU Itanium2 TPC-C result, would they not do it?  C > (though unlike HP's Itanic systems, the POWER4+ systems take muchaF > less of a hit going off-module, for some of the same on-chip support > reasons that EV7 does).i  D Which HP Itanium systems? Those based on zx1 (since we are I thoughtE talking about four-CPUs here), or those based on sx1000?  What is theE% main memory latency in a p655 anyway?   
 rick jones -- k? Process shall set you free from the need for rational thought.  F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...c   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:32:48 GMTl& From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>K Subject: Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheapg4 Message-ID: <AXdRb.13089$rg2.11688@news.cpqcorp.net>  ) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: < > If instead you attempt to use TPC-C scores to validate the9 > performance of the processors that are in those servers   C But you have to keep the discussion strictly in the context of that ? specific server - you cannot really use it to generalize to the ? performance the processor can achieve on its own (or in another  chipset/server).  
 rick jones -- OH Wisdom Teeth are impacted, people are affected by the effects of events.F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...,   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:18:45 -0500g* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>K Subject: Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheaps) Message-ID: <4015842B.BAD8E8FB@istop.com>B   Rick Jones wrote:dH > exploring the validity of the agrument being used against Itanium, butF > how many of those good Xeon results have used anything other than an > Intel chipset and compiler?   H Remember  that half of Itanium's logic resides in the compiler. For RISCQ architecture, a greater proportion of the performance comes from the chip itself.   I Look at the complaints that the early demo VMS-IA64 systems had piss poor N performance. One of the reasons given was that VMS was running with Merced era compilers for now.  G With VMS's compiler people having been donated to Intel, one has to askoF whether the compilers available on VMS will be able to follow the IA64Q hardware, or whether VMS will lag behind HPUX and Linux for the latest compilers.1  M If VMS lags behind in compilers, it will also mean that it will lag behind ineF performance. And one has to start wondering about how binaries will beG distributed. When I buy some 3rd party package, how do I know if it waslL compiled with a compiler that matches my harware ? And if I upgrade hardwareL and compiler, will I have to recompile everything in order to get all of the) performance improvement I just paid for ?e   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2004 21:02:08 -0000 From: Hmmm <hmmm@hmmm.hmm>$ Subject: Re: JF Mezei Text Generator7 Message-ID: <IL4ZTO8T38012.6264814815@anonymous.poster>4  $ Steve <ihatespam@noemail.com> wrote:   >lol...Shirley?p  G He has this thing about people calling him Shirley.  He get its from 1) L overdosing on crack, 2) jerking off too much, and 3) sitting at home all dayM long watching "Airplane!", his favorite documentary, which itself is based onnN the previous documentaries "Airport", "Airport 75", "Airport 77", and "Airport 79".   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:07:09 GMTr3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)e3 Subject: RE: Known problems with V7.3 security MUP?r4 Message-ID: <hHcRb.13067$0d2.12329@news.cpqcorp.net>  K In article <63D30D6E10CFD11190A90000F805FE860492B447@lespaul.process.com>,  & Mike Duffy <Duffy@process.com> writes: [Charlie Hammond wrote:] ..L >> I have sent a suggestion to the POLYCENTER Software  Installation (PCSI) F >> utility engineering team that they emphasise this in future patches >> to the PCSI utility.r >> n >I+ >Thanks, but it was clearly my own mistake.   6 You are not the only person to have made this mistake.J Also, it may sometimes pertain to patches NOT related to the PCSI utility.F The initial eraction is that patch kits which do NOT require a re-bootF but DO require logging out and back in can provide better information.  ' So thanks to all for raising this isue.h   -- oJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:44:08 GMT-3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)F3 Subject: RE: Known problems with V7.3 security MUP?43 Message-ID: <s_eRb.13100$pr2.1123@news.cpqcorp.net>.   I wrote: .. >The initial eraction               ^^^--vvvrG              REACTION is that patch kits which do NOT require a re-boottG >but DO require logging out and back in can provide better information.r  E And in case you didn't know what my fat fingers intended, now you do.s  / Feel to laugh.  (Or at least to checkle a bit.)e   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:18:19 -0500r3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>s3 Subject: Re: Known problems with V7.3 security MUP?t0 Message-ID: <vIOdncNz7bv0V4jdRVn-hw@comcast.com>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------0504020704000709050803059 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit@  H When you have seventeen patches to apply and fourteen of them require a E reboot, the temptation to cut corners is overwhelming!  I speak from  G experience.  I rebooted after the UPDATE patch and again after the SYS  G patch.  I put the next six patches in and rebooted, put about six more OF in and rebooted,  then put the remainder in and rebooted.  I got away  with it!  J It would be helpful if the instructions graded the need for a reboot; e.g.=     You absolutely must reboot before doing anything else, ore,     Reboot before running your applications.  G I realize that there may be finer gradations in the above but it would oG still be helpful to have guidance that's a little easier to follow.  I -I had set the SRM console to NOT do an INIT at every reboot, and I had set mD STARTUP_P1 "MIN" and the reboots STILL took an annoyingly long time.   Charlie Hammond wrote:  2 >In article <401284F8.57E8194D@sture.homeip.net>, - >Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:: >  >..G >    >aD >>I encountered a similar problem when applying VMS731_PCSI V1.0 andD >>VMS731_UPDATE V1.0 in a single session; the second PRODUCT INSTALLF >>failed, so I rebooted and then it worked. I realised too late that IH >>might have simply been able to get away with logging in again, but did" >>kick myself that I hadn't tried. >>     >> >..u > I >I have sent a suggestion to the POLYCENTER Software Installation (PCSI) pD >utility engineering team that they emphasise this in future patches >to the PCSI utility.  >RG >Now this is NOT a shot at anyone, but this can only work IF installersuD >actually read and follow instructions that come with the patch kit,D >and also pay attention to messages that PRODUCT INSTALL <patch-kit>D >displays.  While there is NO REASON to find fault along these linesC >in the situatin currently under discussion, a surprising number ofa> >problems arise from NOT reading and following instructions.  C >O.K., maybe it is not surprising -- human nature and all that...  oG >In any case, this is another reminder that the instructions are there > >for a reason. >n >  l >   & --------------050402070400070905080305) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciiM Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   ? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">e <html> <head>I   <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">a   <title></title>  </head> ' <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">rG When you have seventeen patches to apply and fourteen of them require amI reboot, the temptation to cut corners is overwhelming!&nbsp; I speak fromiK experience.&nbsp; I rebooted after the UPDATE patch and again after the SYSnK patch.&nbsp; I put the next six patches in and rebooted, put about six more O in and rebooted,&nbsp; then put the remainder in and rebooted.&nbsp; I got awayi with it!<br> <br>E It would be helpful if the instructions graded the need for a reboot;- e.g.<br>P &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; You absolutely must reboot before doing anything else, or<br>? &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Reboot before running your applications.<br>@ <br>F I realize that there may be finer gradations in the above but it wouldK still be helpful to have guidance that's a little easier to follow.&nbsp; IPD had set the SRM console to NOT do an INIT at every reboot, and I hadL set STARTUP_P1 "MIN" and the reboots STILL took an annoyingly long time.<br> <br> Charlie Hammond wrote:<br>I <blockquote type="cite" cite="midC09Rb.13010$IS1.12686@news.cpqcorp.net">s   <pre wrap="">In article <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:401284F8.57E8194D@sture.homeip.net">&lt;401284F8.57E8194D@sture.homeip.net&gt;</a>, } Paul Sture <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nospam@sture.homeip.net">&lt;nospam@sture.homeip.net&gt;</a> writes:u   ..   </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">S     <pre wrap="">I encountered a similar problem when applying VMS731_PCSI V1.0 andwB VMS731_UPDATE V1.0 in a single session; the second PRODUCT INSTALLD failed, so I rebooted and then it worked. I realised too late that IF might have simply been able to get away with logging in again, but did  kick myself that I hadn't tried.
     </pre>   </blockquote>    <pre wrap=""><!---->..  H I have sent a suggestion to the POLYCENTER Software Installation (PCSI) C utility engineering team that they emphasise this in future patchesh to the PCSI utility.  F Now this is NOT a shot at anyone, but this can only work IF installersC actually read and follow instructions that come with the patch kit, I and also pay attention to messages that PRODUCT INSTALL &lt;patch-kit&gt; C displays.  While there is NO REASON to find fault along these linesuB in the situatin currently under discussion, a surprising number of= problems arise from NOT reading and following instructions.   B O.K., maybe it is not surprising -- human nature and all that...  F In any case, this is another reminder that the instructions are there 
 for a reason.e     </pre>
 </blockquote>g </body>< </html>2  ( --------------050402070400070905080305--   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:25:35 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 Compilers (was: Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or .A3 Message-ID: <ztgRb.13114$cA2.7785@news.cpqcorp.net>l  n In article <bv41e5$qdq$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones) writes:  M :I recall at one point they announced that VMS/IA64 would use the same formatbO :object files as UNIX (coff?), so keeping the compilers current should be a lot- :less difficult.  J   OpenVMS is using the Intel Itanium Executable and Linkable Format (ELF) K   object file formats and the DWARF debugging support, and has worked with TH   Intel to provide the extensions and the behaviours that match customer=   expectations and the OpenVMS calling standard requirements.   I   The HP and Intel compiler teams and the HP OpenVMS Engineers (Language lG   RTLs, Linker, ANALYZE/OBJECT, etc) are all keeping quite busy as partrI   of their respective Itanium efforts, and the first externally-available K   (native) compilers are shipping for OpenVMS I64 V8.1; these tools produce $   and utilize Intel ELF/DWARF files.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:06:50 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 Compilers (was: Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or .o) Message-ID: <4015B991.605DEEF9@istop.com>a   Hoff Hoffman wrote:iK >   OpenVMS is using the Intel Itanium Executable and Linkable Format (ELF)ML >   object file formats and the DWARF debugging support, and has worked withJ >   Intel to provide the extensions and the behaviours that match customer? >   expectations and the OpenVMS calling standard requirements.   L I've heard that HP has its own compilers. Is that still the case ? has thereN been any discussion of using HP compilers for VMS ? Or was the donation of VMSK engineers to Intel made in such a way that it was impossible to backtrack ?   K Does this mean that the compilers on VMS-IA64 and image analysis tools willaJ gradually spread apart from the VMS-Alpha compilers ? Will this eventuallyF cause problems of incompatibility or is there the expectation that theN compilers and other tools will remain 100% compatible to the user/programmer ?   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2004 11:29:13 -0800+ From: Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr (Bru, Pierre)t$ Subject: PIPE and modified DCL table= Message-ID: <a39f53b1.0401261129.6e11c25f@posting.google.com>h   hi,l  A I ceated a new command with the corresponding CLD, I inserted theu1 command in the DCLtables ($ set command mycld.cldn3 /tab=sys$share:dcltables /out=sys$share:dcltables).J  F I logged-out/logged-in and the new process know my new command. but ifC I try to use it in a PIPE command ($ pipe somathing | newcommand) I.F get the DCL "%DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling" error :(   where am I wrong ?   TIA, Pierre.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:53:19 -0500.< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>( Subject: Re: PIPE and modified DCL table9 Message-ID: <bv3r7i$o5jup$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>h   Bru, Pierre wrote: > hi,h >26 > I ceated a new command with the corresponding CLD, I inserted the3 > command in the DCLtables ($ set command mycld.cldd5 > /tab=sys$share:dcltables /out=sys$share:dcltables).h >r8 > I logged-out/logged-in and the new process know my new command. but if 7 > I try to use it in a PIPE command ($ pipe somathing | 
 newcommand) In9 > get the DCL "%DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb -g check validity > and spelling" error :( >...   Tryw  ) $ INSTALL REPLACE SYS$SHARE:DCLTABLES.EXE   > and try it again. (Just a guess, I have not tried to duplicate what you did.)   --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.i Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX) www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jan 2004 21:39:35 GMT1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones) ( Subject: Re: PIPE and modified DCL table: Message-ID: <bv41en$qdq$2@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  ) In message <40158527.FE557A6F@istop.com>,c.   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:M >If I read this properly, what would cause your interactive process to accessl? >one version of dcltables, but PIPE accessing another version ?t  = You will get this effect if your login.com procedure issues ab! "set command/tables=..." command.w    < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet: L 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.e   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:40:22 +0000 (UTC)o, From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)( Subject: Re: PIPE and modified DCL table. Message-ID: <bv41g5$2hg$2@newslocal.mitre.org>   koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes in article <OlNuNBQWwrzV@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 26 Jan 2004 14:22:45 -0600:tl >In article <a39f53b1.0401261129.6e11c25f@posting.google.com>, Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr (Bru, Pierre) writes:D >> I ceated a new command with the corresponding CLD, I inserted the4 >> command in the DCLtables ($ set command mycld.cld6 >> /tab=sys$share:dcltables /out=sys$share:dcltables). >tA >   1)  /output should always specify sys$common:[syslib], unlesso> >      you have some reason to need a node-specific DCL table. >kI >> I logged-out/logged-in and the new process know my new command. but if F >> I try to use it in a PIPE command ($ pipe somathing | newcommand) II >> get the DCL "%DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity  >> and spelling" error :(u >n) >   2) install/relace sys$share:dcltables   3 That's 2 posters who have hit the nail on the head.h0 Just to summarize the correct order of things...   1.  SET COMMAND  2.  INSTALL/REPLACE  3.  Log in fresh  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2004 14:22:45 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ( Subject: Re: PIPE and modified DCL table3 Message-ID: <OlNuNBQWwrzV@eisner.encompasserve.org>2  k In article <a39f53b1.0401261129.6e11c25f@posting.google.com>, Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr (Bru, Pierre) writes:I > hi,r > C > I ceated a new command with the corresponding CLD, I inserted the 3 > command in the DCLtables ($ set command mycld.cld 5 > /tab=sys$share:dcltables /out=sys$share:dcltables).w  @    1)  /output should always specify sys$common:[syslib], unless=       you have some reason to need a node-specific DCL table.f  H > I logged-out/logged-in and the new process know my new command. but ifE > I try to use it in a PIPE command ($ pipe somathing | newcommand) IeH > get the DCL "%DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity > and spelling" error :(  (    2) install/relace sys$share:dcltables   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:51:20 GMTt3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)r( Subject: Re: PIPE and modified DCL table4 Message-ID: <c5fRb.13102$pr2.10402@news.cpqcorp.net>  4 In article <OlNuNBQWwrzV@eisner.encompasserve.org>, = koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   A >   1)  /output should always specify sys$common:[syslib], unlesst> >      you have some reason to need a node-specific DCL table.  O DCLTABLES in system specific directories WILL break the next OpenVMS upgrade.  oL They will also break any patch or LP installation that replaces or modifies 
 DCLTABLES.  H OpenVMS Engineering does NOT support DCLTABLES in other than SYS$COMMON.  ) >   2) install/relace sys$share:dcltablest   This is a necessary step.i   -- fJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:22:58 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>( Subject: Re: PIPE and modified DCL table) Message-ID: <40158527.FE557A6F@istop.com>w   Charlie Hammond wrote:+ > >   2) install/relace sys$share:dcltablese  I The way I read the original poster, he said that when logging back on, hefM obtained the updated DCLTABLES and his new command was available. However, it  was not available with PIPE.  L If I read this properly, what would cause your interactive process to access> one version of dcltables, but PIPE accessing another version ?   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2004 14:31:19 -0800" From: horn@shsu.edu (James T Horn) Subject: TCP/IP Services= Message-ID: <843706dc.0401261431.1c9e297e@posting.google.com>r  A IS there somewhere I might be able to find the SMTP.CONF file for-- TCP/IP Services for configuring the AntiSpam?-   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:02:06 GMT7# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)a Subject: Re: TCP/IP Services3 Message-ID: <O%gRb.13117$Ny2.6690@news.cpqcorp.net>e  b In article <843706dc.0401261431.1c9e297e@posting.google.com>, horn@shsu.edu (James T Horn) writes:B :IS there somewhere I might be able to find the SMTP.CONF file for. :TCP/IP Services for configuring the AntiSpam?  1   What OpenVMS and what TCP/IP Services versions?'  @   If you enable SMTP and the associated features, the files are @   typically present and/or created.  For this, look specifically   for the file:a  *     TCPIP$SMTP_COMMON:SMTP_CONFIG.TEMPLATE  >   The TCPIP$SMTP_COMMON logical name usually translates to the?   SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP] directory, unless the directory has #   been moved by the system manager.c  B   Here is the direct path into the relevent section of the current(   TCP/IP Services product documentation:  I     http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732final/6526/6526pro_039.html#antispam   <   The template file I'm looking at is extensively commented.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqnN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:45:04 -0500t* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: TCP/IP Services) Message-ID: <4015B478.1279D7F0@istop.com>-   Hoff Hoffman wrote:-A >   If you enable SMTP and the associated features, the files are7B >   typically present and/or created.  For this, look specifically >   for the file:- > , >     TCPIP$SMTP_COMMON:SMTP_CONFIG.TEMPLATE  H Note that if you upgrade from 5.1 to 5.3, the upgrade procedure does not" update the existing config files.   N You need to go to sys$library:tcpip$templates.tbl and manually use the LIBRARYC utility to /EXTRACT the relevant module to the above path/file nameo   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:46:45 -0500 < From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>? Subject: Re: Trouble installing VMS AXP Hobbyist on a PWS 600au 9 Message-ID: <bv45cm$nadr6$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>t  0 "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff@hp.nospam> wrote in message- news:eEbRb.13056$942.3644@news.cpqcorp.net...e >...> >   FWIW, the h%%%%.www%.hp.com URLs are potentially transient and are:6 >   considered website-internal URL cross-links.  Such internal URLs can + >   potentially be moved or can be changed.t >...  ; Someone should tell the documentation writers that. Just soe< happens that I am looking for information on AMDS, so I findA http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/availman/6552pro.html.  Chapter 2 tells me to go to 7 http://h7100.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/availman/ fora5 installation instructions. Of course, seeing that thei/ documentation was written less than 1 year ago,e= http://h7100.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/availman/ no longert exists.t  
 So please,  : 1. Someone tell the documentation writers not to use these& h71000.www7.hp.com/whatever addresses.  ( 2. Someone tell HP in general that these; h71000.www7.hp.com/whatever addresses are a big problem fora= their customers. (If they insist on using these at least theyj> can put a line at the top of every page saying "If you want to, access this page in the future then bookmark" http://www.hp.com/whatever and not> http:://h71000.www7.hp.com/whatever since we are going to move> http::/h71000.www7.hp.com/whatever at some random point in the future just to annoy you!"  ; 3. Someone tell me where I can find the documents on how tot= install the AMDS data analyzer on VMS so I can work with somel) machines on the other side of a firewall.e   -- i Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.e Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXi www.weaverconsulting.cak   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:18:20 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) ? Subject: Re: Trouble installing VMS AXP Hobbyist on a PWS 600aus3 Message-ID: <0fhRb.13120$Ny2.6145@news.cpqcorp.net>d  x In article <bv45cm$nadr6$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> writes:  @   You may well want to send your feedback directly along to the C   site-wide webmaster directly, as I am not at all certain that anya-   of the messages posted here would be seen.    A   The OpenVMS Webmaster has added "/go" links for the OpenVMS FAQsB   and other portions of the OpenVMS website I and others regularlyB   reference, which allows me static URL "/go" addresses I can then
   publish.  G   Language and localization, geographic network routing considerations,"F   replication, and other such issues are not easy problems to resolve.    < :3. Someone tell me where I can find the documents on how to> :install the AMDS data analyzer on VMS so I can work with some* :machines on the other side of a firewall.  C   You would have to open the firewall to the AMDS (and Availability B   Manager) wire-level protocol.   Off the top, I do not know whichE   802.3 protocol code might be used -- if the AMDS documentation does4(   not show it, some SDA commands will.    C   I'd tend not to open a firewall to this traffic, just because thesD   access and control tends to be incompatible with the usual purpose   of a firewall installation.t     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqeN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comi   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:45:27 GMTeF From: "Kris G.G. Clippeleyr \(aka Qkcl\)" <kris.clippeleyr@pandora.be>6 Subject: Re: What is mystery object in VMS screensaver9 Message-ID: <bfdRb.6582$n95.233566@phobos.telenet-ops.be>    Hi,h  C There are several "screensavers" around for VMS & DECwindows Motif. @ One is located at http://www.quadratrix.be/products/qmsaver.htmlK Is runs on an AlphaStation running OpenVMS Alpha V7.2 or V7.3, & DECwindowsi V1.2-3 or later.   Regards, -- v   Kris G.G. Clippeleyr (aka Qkcl)t& VMS Wizard in training, Guru wanna be. email: qkcl@quadratrix.bet website: www.quadratrix.be  7 "Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message * news:4011099F.7062DE76@sture.homeip.net... > Mike Naime wrote:s > >-0 > > <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message. > > news:00A2C1E6.5B920B53@SendSpamHere.ORG...C > > > In article <948f0720.0401181720.6cee1945@posting.google.com>,C6 > > chris_doran@postmaster.co.uk (Chris Doran) writes:2 > > > >VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message0 > > news:<00A2BFC4.0C404DF6@SendSpamHere.ORG>...F > > > >> In article <b096a4ee.0401161101.5c632c58@posting.google.com>,4 > > spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:K > > > >> >Two slides after "Alpha ready" in the VMS screen saver slide showrJ > > > >> >there is a picture of a reddish/yellowish/greenish disk. What is it?k
 > > > >> >0 > > > >> >(You can get the VMS screen saver from
 > > > >> >? > > > >> >    http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/25th/index.htmlt > > > >> > > > >> I get ... > > > >>@ > > > >> IMGACT-F-NOTNATIVE, image is not an OpenVMS Alpha image > > > >-K > > > >This is because HP, not having heard of OpenVMS Alpha, have built itD > > > >for Windows instead.t > > >h? > > > Sarcasm.  It was meant as a gibe in light of the subject:  > > >$3 > > >     What is mystery object in VMS screensaver<3 > > >                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^m > > >o: > > > If it's a VMS Screensaver, should it not run on VMS? > > >I > > D > > Ok, how many of you out there have a graphics card stuck in yourJ > > Alphaservers and use the graphical GUI to manage your system?  I think thatG > > there are more like me that used a VT and now use a Whindoze PeeCee4 telnetL > > program to connect to their VMS boxes.  For me, a screensaver running on myJ > > (production) Alphaservers would just use up unnecessary CPU cycles and have > > nothing to output too! > >U >eC > Perhaps just the way it happened, but in one main server room, we I > managed to keep a 4100 with a graphics card going after its application C > had retired, and found it incredibly useful when working on other  > systems in that room.- >-I > Once you get used to DECterm multiple windows and copy and paste, goingaH > back to a VT is a bit of a drag, not to mention the hassles of finding) > the right cable for your terminal cart.8 >2 >7H > > So, they make screensavers for about everything else.   Why not VMS? >  >eI > Why not indeed, though personally, I've never had time for anything buts > a blank screensaver. >e > -- s > Paul Sture   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.052 ************************