0 INFO-VAX	Tue, 27 Jan 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 53      Contents:$ Re: americans at the athens olympics$ Re: americans at the athens olympics cURL 7.11.0 available for VMS  Re: DCPS 2.3 on OpenVMS 7.3-2  debug client Re: debug clientP Re: Experiences with Tivoli Storage Manager and Archive Backup	Client	ClientClieE Re: Experiences with Tivoli Storage Manager and Archive Backup Client E Re: Experiences with Tivoli Storage Manager and Archive Backup Client E Re: Experiences with Tivoli Storage Manager and Archive Backup Client < Re: Flashing lights on my disk drives on an Alphaserver ES40 Re: ftp attack Re: ftp attack0 Help Print to disk/file or to a printer via Adsl4 Re: Help Print to disk/file or to a printer via Adsl$ HP to adopt AMD's Opteron in servers( Re: HP to adopt AMD's Opteron in servers( Re: HP to adopt AMD's Opteron in servers( Re: HP to adopt AMD's Opteron in servers Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!  Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!  Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!  Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!! B Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheapB Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheapB Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheap Re: Kerberos login on VMS * RE: Known problems with V7.3 security MUP?* Re: Known problems with V7.3 security MUP?* RE: Known problems with V7.3 security MUP? Re: NEWS2 again... Re: NEWS2 again....  Re: NEWS2 again....  Re: NEWS2 again.....3 NFS Client on OpenVMS AXP Version V3.2, UCX V3.2-9. 7 Re: NFS Client on OpenVMS AXP Version V3.2, UCX V3.2-9. 7 Re: NFS Client on OpenVMS AXP Version V3.2, UCX V3.2-9.  Re: OpenVMS I64 Compilers P Re: OpenVMS I64 Compilers (was: Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices   <- or& Re: Parity Error on Removable MO disks Re: PIPE and modified DCL table  Re: PIPE and modified DCL table - SW800 with an HSZ50 FREE!  (SF Bay Area only) @ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems@ Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems6 Re: Trouble installing VMS AXP Hobbyist on a PWS 600au. Re: Will Bird Flue impact airlines this year ?. Re: Will Bird Flue impact airlines this year ?. Re: Will Bird Flue impact airlines this year ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2004 15:49:15 -0000 From: OIC <oh@i.see>- Subject: Re: americans at the athens olympics 7 Message-ID: <FMI82UV838013.4092013889@anonymous.poster>   + J F  M e z e i <nobody@nobody.com> trolled:    >Go Fig wrote:J >> I bet the Iraqis will be waving their flags... perhaps another one too. >  > M >Just wait until some country demands that the USA  be banned from the athens M >olympics because they are at war, with athletes being allowed to participate  >under the UN flag.  > M >Perhaps this is one reason why the Bush regime is in such a hurry to prepare  >mock elections in Iraq. > O >Either way, Iraq will still be a country under occupation during the olympics, F >with the athlete selection essentially done by a US controlled group. > M >My hope is that the Iraqi delegation will get a large applause, but that the H >whole stadium will mark a minute of complete silence as the USA team isK >announced. No USA media would be able to hide this from american citizens, M >unless they add in fake applause sounds. Americans must learn that they must G >not let their government invade other countries like it did with Iraq.  > G >One country which will get a lot of applause is Afghanistan which just D >ratified its new constitution and is not under occupation since itsH >sovereignty was never stolen an invading country. They worked under the3 >current constitution to redraw a new constitution.  > N >(And yes, Afghanistan isn't perfect either, a canadian peacekeeper was killed >yesterday in a car bomb).   Interesting . . . . . .    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:39:39 GMT * From: Steven Fisher <sdfisher@spamcop.net>- Subject: Re: americans at the athens olympics 6 Message-ID: <0001HW.BC3BD44B0003C20FF01015B0@shawnews>  , On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 7:49:15 -0800, OIC wrote9 (in message <FMI82UV838013.4092013889@anonymous.poster>):    > Interesting . . . . . .   I Could you kindly stop spamming other groups? This is not exactly a tough   concept.   Followups set.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2004 11:17:47 -06004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)& Subject: cURL 7.11.0 available for VMS3 Message-ID: <t6h3HJCZ23NJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   : The latest version of cURL, 7.11.0, has been released and  is available for download.  2 The location is http://curl.haxx.se/download.html   = This zip file contains the cURL object library and standalone < executable compiled for the following OS, DEC C, and OpenSSL
 combinations.   3  HW Type  VMS Version   Compiler Vers   SSL Library 7 --------+-------------+---------------+---------------- 6  Alpha  | OpenVMS 7.3 | DEC C 6.5-001 | OpenSSL 0.9.7c6  VAX    | OpenVMS 7.2 | DEC C 6.4-003 | OpenSSL 0.9.7c6  IA64   | OpenVMS 8.1 | hp C T7.0-002 | OpenSSL 0.9.7c  9 For those who don't know what cURL is, here is the blurb   from the main page...   ;     Curl is a command line tool for transferring files with :     URL syntax, supporting FTP, FTPS, HTTP, HTTPS, GOPHER,4     TELNET, DICT, FILE and LDAP. Curl supports HTTPS5     certificates, HTTP POST, HTTP PUT, FTP uploading, 7     kerberos, HTTP form based upload, proxies, cookies, <     user+password authentication, file transfer resume, http9     proxy tunneling and a busload of other useful tricks.   ; I haven't tested all the features, since I only use it for  8 HTTP(S), but it does compile and link cleanly on all the platforms outlined above.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:41:23 GMT * From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>& Subject: Re: DCPS 2.3 on OpenVMS 7.3-25 Message-ID: <270120041043432975%paul.anderson@hp.com>   C In article <472dc69e.0401252302.11636f62@posting.google.com>, Harri - Klemetti <harri.klemetti@fipow.abb.fi> wrote:   B > When trying to create execution queues for HP 8000N printers theF > queues wont start. They remain stopped. I analyzed further and found@ > out that trying to issue $ START/QUEUE for these queues always > produces an -F-ABORT error.   G There should be more information in the OPCOM message returned when the  START /QUEUE command is issued.   E Although the documentation does not indicate it, DCPS V2.3 works just  fine on OpenVMS V7.3-2.    Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:28:33 -0500  From: Tym_Stegner@cca-int.com  Subject: debug client S Message-ID: <OF1E03FE17.FA715593-ON85256E28.00542212-85256E28.00552DDA@cca-int.com>   + This is a multipart message in MIME format. " --=_alternative 00552DD885256E28_=, Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"  
 Greetings-  K Recently installed V7.2-2/Alpha (reproducing a customer problem), and find  : I have need of the DEBUG Client, for installation on a PC.  H While the V722 installation doc and the debugger manual each refer to a J [DEBUG_CLIENTS010.KIT] directory and the DEBUGX86010.EXE, I cannot locate H any such directory or file on any of the 4 CDs in the V722 installation  kit (OS, LP, DOC, TOOLS).   F I looked about the OpenVMS website for such an image (even in FAQ and  ASK), but no-go.  A Can anyone point me toward acquiring the debugger client [image]?    thanks,  Tym " --=_alternative 00552DD885256E28_=+ Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"     4 <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Greetings-</font> <br>O <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Recently installed V7.2-2/Alpha (reproducing O a customer problem), and find I have need of the DEBUG Client, for installation  on a PC.</font>  <br>F <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">While the V722 installation doc andH the debugger manual each refer to a [DEBUG_CLIENTS010.KIT] directory andF the DEBUGX86010.EXE, I cannot locate any such directory or file on anyF of the 4 CDs in the V722 installation kit (OS, LP, DOC, TOOLS).</font> <br>I <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I looked about the OpenVMS website for 6 such an image (even in FAQ and ASK), but no-go.</font> <br>G <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Can anyone point me toward acquiring # the debugger client [image]?</font>  <br>1 <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">thanks,</font> - <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Tym</font> $ --=_alternative 00552DD885256E28_=--   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:54:43 +0000 (UTC) 9 From: Stephen Bainbridge <Stephen_Bainbridge@yahoo.co.uk>  Subject: Re: debug client 0 Message-ID: <bv68l3$2u8$1@sparta.btinternet.com>   Tym_Stegner@cca-int.com wrote: >  > Greetings- > H > Recently installed V7.2-2/Alpha (reproducing a customer problem), and A > find I have need of the DEBUG Client, for installation on a PC.  > J > While the V722 installation doc and the debugger manual each refer to a E > [DEBUG_CLIENTS010.KIT] directory and the DEBUGX86010.EXE, I cannot  D > locate any such directory or file on any of the 4 CDs in the V722 ( > installation kit (OS, LP, DOC, TOOLS). > H > I looked about the OpenVMS website for such an image (even in FAQ and  > ASK), but no-go. > C > Can anyone point me toward acquiring the debugger client [image]?  > 	 > thanks,  > Tym   F You'll find that directory and EXE on the CD labeled "OpenVMS Version H 7.x (Alpha and VAX) Layered Products" with a volume label of "VMS07xLP" F where "x" is your minor VMS version number. This is a kit from one of I the layered product CDs that accompanies the system CD -- NOT one of the  ' commercial products on the SPL/condist.    Regards, Steve    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:00:38 GMT ' From: nospam <x@wedontwantyourspam.com> Y Subject: Re: Experiences with Tivoli Storage Manager and Archive Backup	Client	ClientClie 5 Message-ID: <BC3C81B9.1EC4A%x@wedontwantyourspam.com>   G in article q20b10p9vhj03h8vm69q3e4fhcrfihksa5@4ax.com, David Harrold at - DHarrold@wi.rr.com wrote on 27/01/2004 08:08:   F > We are in the process of evaluating options for backup solutions forE > our VMS systems.  Since we have Tivoli Storage Manager (TSM) as our P > "enterprise backup solution" we will be evaluation using that as an option for > our systems.L How can you call TSM "enterprise backup solution" if your not backing up VMS with it ;);)  G Abc had a few early problems not sure of its current status was a v2(?) L implementation done for IBM by a 3rd party. Cant remember now what the shortD comings of not supporting the current feature set of the server was.  J Seemed ok to me. As long as you look after your TSM server and its backups! ABC+TSM is a reasonable solution.   J  Why don't you talk to you Tivoli rep, they should be able to point you at some real users of the product.     
     Cheers         Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:53:40 -0500   From: "smitty" <andrew@sp32.com>N Subject: Re: Experiences with Tivoli Storage Manager and Archive Backup Client0 Message-ID: <101curf46udc25e@corp.supernews.com>   Dave,   G I would recomend evaluating Tapesys, put out by Software Partners, Inc. I Some key features:  Tapesys writes tapes in native VMS format, so you are I not dependant on a backup server to restore your system.  You can restore G through the Tapesys interface or simply use VMS backup!  (I don't think I Tivoli does this, but I could be mistaken.)  What are you currently using H for backups?  If you have current backups in VMS format it can easily be added to the Tapesys database.  I I'm not trying to throw out a sales pitch in this forum (I work for SPI), I but we have a lot of happy customers, we have 20 years VMS backup related I experience, and our customer service/support, quite frankly, is second to , none.  On top of that Tapesys is affordable.   andrew Software Partners, Inc.  andrew at sp32.com www.softwarepartners.com 978-887-6409 x114   5 "David Harrold" <DHarrold@wi.rr.com> wrote in message 2 news:q20b10p9vhj03h8vm69q3e4fhcrfihksa5@4ax.com...F > We are in the process of evaluating options for backup solutions forE > our VMS systems.  Since we have Tivoli Storage Manager (TSM) as our L > "enterprise backup solution" we will be evaluation using that as an option for  > our systems. > J > So, I was looking for any experiences with the ABC product, good, bad orA > indifferent you would like to share.  Also a rough idea of your  environment,' > size of databases to be back up, etc.  > 	 > Thanks,  >  > Dave Harrold >  > L ............................................................................ ..E > David Harrold                              E-Mail: David.Harrold at 
 aurora.orgL > Lead Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-6204L >                                             Pager:          (414) 941-4634L > Aurora Health Care                            Fax:          (414) 647-4999 > 3031 W. Montana Street > Milwaukee, WI 53215    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:24:11 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukN Subject: Re: Experiences with Tivoli Storage Manager and Archive Backup Client( Message-ID: <bv63bb$bo$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>  a In article <vlMQeoaE0rhB@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: d >In article <q20b10p9vhj03h8vm69q3e4fhcrfihksa5@4ax.com>, David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com> writes:H >> 	We are in the process of evaluating options for backup solutions forF >> our VMS systems.  Since we have Tivoli Storage Manager (TSM) as ourQ >> "enterprise backup solution" we will be evaluation using that as an option for  >> our systems.  >>  K >> So, I was looking for any experiences with the ABC product, good, bad or O >> indifferent you would like to share.  Also a rough idea of your environment, ( >> size of databases to be back up, etc. >>   > ? >	I have a lot of good experience with the ABC.  Using Multinet ? >	and dual-ported 100 MBit card, we are writing at 20 MB/sec to ? >	a Tivoli server.  We backup 50 GBytes or so in about an hour.  > B >	Going forward, we are upgrading to GBit and I expect to at least? >	double throughput (but would be shocked to hit 80 MByte/sec).  > E >	I wrote a 1500 line DCL backup wrapper for ABC, some of which looks  >	like this: >  >  >$ DISPATCHER: >$       call resubmit >$       call general_cleanup  >$       call delete_queues " >$       call create_manage_queues( >$       call parse_and_dispatch_configs' >$       call submit_watcher_of_backups  >$       return  >  > 
 >$ BACKUP: >$       call 'full_routine'" >$       call check_if_last_backup >$       call gather_statistics  >$       return  >  >  >$ POSTBACK:" >$       call 'postbackup_routine' >$       return  >  >$ WATCHER:  >$       call 'full_routine' >$       return  >  >  >$ Backup_TSM_Shadow: 
 >$ subroutine  >$ ! >$ !     Backup Shadow to TSM  >$ !  >$       gosub perform_prebackup >$       gosub perform_backup ! >$       gosub perform_postbackup 
 >$       exit  >$ ! >$ perform_prebackup:   >$       if PreBack .nes. "NULL"
 >$       then 4 >$               call 'PreBack' 'Shadowset' 'Target' >$       endif >$       return  >$ ! >$ perform_backup: >$ ! >$       ltarg = Target - ":" K >$       SummaryFile     = Log_Dir + ltarg + "_" + start_yyyymmdd + ".SUMM"  >$ !! >$       if InclExcl .nes. "NULL" 
 >$       then 7 >$               InclExclfile = "/INCLEXCL=''InclExcl'" 
 >$       else " >$               InclExclfile = "" >$       endif >$ !L >$       ABC_COMMAND     =       "ABC INCREMENTAL /IGNORE=INTERLOCK "    + -L >                                "/SUMMARY=(CREATE,FILE=''SummaryFile')" + -L >                                "/NORECORD"                             + -L >                                "''InclExclfile'"                       + -2 >                                "/CLASS=''Class'" >$ ! >$ !  Safety check...  >  > ; >	Conceptually, it is a bit to get and be comfortable with  > >	INCREMENTAL backups, but Google whitepapers help explain it.B >	I keep an online copy of the system disk as "bare metal" restore; >	of a VMS system disk via ABC is not a comforting thought.  > $ >	Best thing?  Very rapid restores.  >  >$ directory %.%;  > B >A.A;1               B.B;27              C.C;4               D.2;2B >D.D;31              E.E;1               F.F;6               G.G;2B >H.H;1               I.I;1               L.L;4               M.M;2B >N.N;1               O.O;1               Q.1;1               Q.2;1C >Q.Q;2               Q.R;1               R.R;7               S.S;12 B >T.T;12              U.U;4               V.V;1               W.W;1 >X.X;1               Y.Y;1 >  >Total of 26 files.  >  >$ show time >  26-JAN-2004 19:35:55  >  >$ abc show backup q.r< >Archive Backup Client for ADSM on OpenVMS, Version V3.1.0.69 >Copyright 1996-2003, Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc. F >DISK$NAME:[USERS.YOUNGR]Q.R;1 (A)             2   5-NOV-2003 02:56:15 >  >$ show time >  26-JAN-2004 19:35:57  >  > ? >	Point here is I located that file in 2 seconds.  Restoring of E >	course will take longer - maybe.  If you have a very large TSM disk ; >	pool and everything resides in that disk pool... restores 8 >	would fly faster (no mounting tapes).  SATA is getting@ >	cheap and you could use it in DR type fashion and ... well you >	get the picture. > 3 >	Finally, a number of ABC discussions reside here:  > d >http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=abc+tivoli+rob+group%3Acomp.os.vms >  >				Rob >  Rob,   The page at T http://www.storserver.com/main.cfm?menu=2&submenu=abc&detail=include/abcoverview.cfm   mentions ODS-2 filesystems.   < Does it also handle backing up and restoring ODS-5 volumes ?  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2004 12:24:38 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) N Subject: Re: Experiences with Tivoli Storage Manager and Archive Backup Client3 Message-ID: <7FIzOddVBGvC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   I In article <bv63bb$bo$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:    > Rob, > 
 > The page at V > http://www.storserver.com/main.cfm?menu=2&submenu=abc&detail=include/abcoverview.cfm >  > mentions ODS-2 filesystems.  > > > Does it also handle backing up and restoring ODS-5 volumes ? >   > 	Good question.  I don't know.   I would send a polite inquiry 	to:  E http://www.storsol.com/main.cfm?menu=7&detail=include/ContactInfo.cfm    STORServer, Inc. - USA  / 485-B Elkton Drive, Colorado Springs, CO 80907  ( Phone: (888) 786-7765 or (719) 266-8777  Fax: (719) 266-5576   + General E-Mail: requestinfo@storserver.com     				Rob    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2004 05:11:16 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)E Subject: Re: Flashing lights on my disk drives on an Alphaserver ES40 = Message-ID: <f30679fb.0401270511.597d4019@posting.google.com>   i rcbryan@hotmail.com (RC Bryan) wrote in message news:<fbcf38dc.0401261730.211c64e0@posting.google.com>...  > Guys:  > G > My wonderful ES40 decided to hang, forcing me to press the big button F > on the front.  When it came up again, it could not read from any DKAF > devices and the lights on my disk drives were all flashing together. >  > The flash pattern is:  > On:  4 sec# > Off: 1/2 sec (or so, quite short) # > On:  1/2 sec (or so, quite short)  > Off: 1 sec > On:  2 sec
 > Off: 30 sec  > @ > The disk drives say they are "36 GB Wide Ultra3 SCSI, HotPlug, > [177986-001]"  > E > I looked and looked on the web and I can't find anything that gives  > this any meaning.  > B > Since it is unlikely all my drives would die at the same time, I= > figure there is probably something wrong with the SCSI bus.  > C > It pains me to get a service call without having any idea what is  > going on.  > G > Any ideas anybody?  Is this in some kind of manual I should have been  > able to find this in?  > 	 > Thanks,  > /RC Bryan        Try first !    >>> SHOW DEVICE      Regards    FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 03:09:39 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: ftp attack ) Message-ID: <40161C97.1643BD4E@istop.com>   & "gconstantinides@myrealbox.com" wrote:9 > tcpip> SET SERVICE/ACCEPT=NETWORK=x.x.x.0:255.255.255.0   : you need to add "FTP" at the end of the above line ... :-)  @ > Is this correct?   Does this apply to incoming requestes only?  M Yes. Outgoing FTP is just an application, not a service. The SET SERVICE only J aopplies to the inbound requests to the port associated with the service.   N When you use the FTP client, it uses "random" ports for its connections to the< FTP server and the inbound FTP port/service is not involved.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2004 09:10:48 -0800C From: gconstantinides@myrealbox.com (gconstantinides@myrealbox.com)  Subject: Re: ftp attack = Message-ID: <d28edccd.0401270910.3f7025f5@posting.google.com>   [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<40161C97.1643BD4E@istop.com>... ( > "gconstantinides@myrealbox.com" wrote:; > > tcpip> SET SERVICE/ACCEPT=NETWORK=x.x.x.0:255.255.255.0  > < > you need to add "FTP" at the end of the above line ... :-) > B > > Is this correct?   Does this apply to incoming requestes only? > O > Yes. Outgoing FTP is just an application, not a service. The SET SERVICE only L > aopplies to the inbound requests to the port associated with the service.  > P > When you use the FTP client, it uses "random" ports for its connections to the> > FTP server and the inbound FTP port/service is not involved.  A Thanks for the clarification. What about the /ACCEPT=HOST=0.0.0.0 @ Doesn't this setting mean "accept all hosts" and therefore is in8 contradiction with /ACCEPT=NETWORK=x.x.x.0:255.255.255.08 Perhaps It can be disabled with a /ACCEPT=NOHOST=0.0.0.0   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2004 04:30:15 -0800 From: wimk@dse.nl (Wimk)9 Subject: Help Print to disk/file or to a printer via Adsl < Message-ID: <df662346.0401270430.6dfdc1f@posting.google.com>   Hello   B I have the following problem, we have an AXP and most of the usersE connecting via DSL and Citrix, and they have no problem with printing  files.< They have a dynamic IP addres so print is no problem at all.E But there are some user who have ADSL and they dont have a dynamic IP F adres, so I cant set up a print queueu because the IP adres changes al	 the time.    I have 2 questions, % Is there a solution for this problem,   F And is it possible to make a queue which sends the output to a file or directory instead of a printer. D In that case we would like to ftp the file to the windows client and print it from there.  @ I hope that someone understands what I'm trying to say and has a solution for me.   VMS version V7.3   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:33:28 -0500 + From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnopt@istop.com> = Subject: Re: Help Print to disk/file or to a printer via Adsl ( Message-ID: <401676B1.6E677C9@istop.com>   Wimk wrote: > > They have a dynamic IP addres so print is no problem at all.G > But there are some user who have ADSL and they dont have a dynamic IP H > adres, so I cant set up a print queueu because the IP adres changes al > the time.   M I think you reversed it. Dynamic IP is when the address changes all the time. % Static IP is when it does not change.   H > And is it possible to make a queue which sends the output to a file or! > directory instead of a printer.   K Many print menus on the X apps on VMS allow you to save the output to file. N This file will be created on the X-client (VMS server), and would then have to' be shipped to the X-server (PC client).   N The VMS printing system generally requires that you first write to a file, andM then queue the file (or a pointer to that file) for printing. So they haven't K really considered writing a type of queue that does nothing (eg: leave file  where it wants).  L However, the print symbiont is documented and you could write your own whichC would then take the generated files and transfer them to the user.    J Another option would be to use the dynamic DNS option. When a user logs inN with a certain IP address, you could then create a dns entry with his username' which points to his current IP address.   I This way, you could define all yoru LPD/LPR print queues to point to host  names such as :    	john_doe.chocolate.com   J so when john_doe logs in, you create a dns entry pointing to 66.124.56.45.[ From then on, any print request to john_doe.chocolate.com would get spooled to 66.124.56.45   M This would mean that you would have created all those LPD/LPR queues for each N user. And when any of those users log in, you then assign the right IP addressN viw DNS and then print jobs can be spooled. It would also assume that their PCM would have an LPD deamon running, reading to accept print jobs. And you would K have to assume that all your users can support a specific print format. Not N much point in sending a postscript job if the user doesn't have the ability to print postscript.    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2004 02:23:09 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)- Subject: HP to adopt AMD's Opteron in servers = Message-ID: <f30679fb.0401270223.32a290ff@posting.google.com>   " What mess ! In Who can we trust ?   > These IT companies are lost and  making the customers crazy ! : We cannot have long time planning anymore. Because of this= lack of vision/planning ! These IT companies think the money  ! of the customers grow in farms !      9 http://news.com.com/2100-1006_3-5147619.html?tag=nefd_top      Regards    FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 08:29:38 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> 1 Subject: Re: HP to adopt AMD's Opteron in servers ' Message-ID: <401683E2.9020200@MMaz.com>    Fabio Cardoso wrote:  # >What mess ! In Who can we trust ?   > ? >These IT companies are lost and  making the customers crazy !  ; >We cannot have long time planning anymore. Because of this > >lack of vision/planning ! These IT companies think the money " >of the customers grow in farms !  >  >    > H Who can be trusted?  How many people, like myself, have posted cautions F about this from the very beginning, and how that the IA64 will become C nothing more than a proprietary processor for HP, yet without HP's  L authoritative control over its design, direction, or lifespan?  Countless...    @ I certainly wouldn't want to be in HP's shoes with all of their F non-Windows OS's and layered products migrating to IA64, to just know F receive the revelation that Intel could choose to kill off Itanium at E their whim, at any time!  Once Intel faces the fact that it has cost  I them billions to develop, more to reach a usable state, and then to fab,  B distribute and market, they'll quickly see themselves in the same I situation HP/Compaq claimed was the problem and reason for killing Alpha  D - too expensive, too little volume, and no profit!  HP will be left E holding the bag, leaving HP customers who also migrated, holding the  F same bag and here is the final news flash, that bag isn't filled with  rose buds but rather...      Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:20:54 -0800 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> 1 Subject: Re: HP to adopt AMD's Opteron in servers 8 Message-ID: <20040127092054.4e8e5608.mathog@caltech.edu>  " On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 08:29:38 -0700, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote:   > B > I certainly wouldn't want to be in HP's shoes with all of their G > non-Windows OS's and layered products migrating to IA64, to just now  H > receive the revelation that Intel could choose to kill off Itanium at  > their whim, at any time!  c Never mind HP's shoes, how about HP's enterprise customers?  None of the scenarios are at all rosy:   w 1.  Intel decides to stop losing gobs of money on Itanium and ceases development and production. HP's entire enterprise ? line vaporizes and their customer base migrates to IBM and Sun.    2.  Intel sells the Itanic back to HP.  It still makes no sense for HP to develop and sell an incredibly expensive niche processor.  HP tries @ to pass the cost on to the customers who then give up in disgust and migrate to IBM and Sun.   3.  Intel continues to make the Itanic and sells <10k/year to HP, its sole customer.  In order to amortize the cost the price per processor goes up to an obscene amount, HP tries to pass the cost along to the customers, who won't pay it, and move to IBM and Sun instead.   4.  HP finally realizes it is riding a dead horse and commits to an emergency port of all enterprise OS's to Opterons.  Three years later as this port finally nears completion HP's last remaining enterprise customer completes the migration to IBM or Sun.   5.  HP realizes that it has made a horrific, fatal error.  Carly shuts down production of all enterprise computers, sells the service organization, and uses the "savings" to give herself a hefty bonus.  All enterprise customers migrate to IBM or Sun.  ?Unlike HP, Intel can walk away from this with nothing worse than a (very) bloody nose.  Intel can, and will, produce their own x86 64bit chip, write off Itanic, and they're still in business.  HP, on the other hand, is going to be very hard pressed to keep their HPUX and VMS customers in the aftermath of this debacle.   Pity that terrible management decisions will go unpunished.  Capellas will not have to forfeit any of his past pay or bonuses, even though his decision to move to Itanic may very well prove to be one of the worst business decisions of all time.  Ditto for his HP contemporaries.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:47:27 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> 1 Subject: Re: HP to adopt AMD's Opteron in servers ' Message-ID: <4016A42F.8000208@MMaz.com>    Well said David!   David Mathog wrote:   # >On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 08:29:38 -0700 - >"Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote:  >  >    > B >>I certainly wouldn't want to be in HP's shoes with all of their G >>non-Windows OS's and layered products migrating to IA64, to just now  H >>receive the revelation that Intel could choose to kill off Itanium at  >>their whim, at any time! >>     >> > d >Never mind HP's shoes, how about HP's enterprise customers?  None of the scenarios are at all rosy: > x >1.  Intel decides to stop losing gobs of money on Itanium and ceases development and production. HP's entire enterprise@ >line vaporizes and their customer base migrates to IBM and Sun. >  >2.  Intel sells the Itanic back to HP.  It still makes no sense for HP to develop and sell an incredibly expensive niche processor.  HP triesA >to pass the cost on to the customers who then give up in disgust  >and migrate to IBM and Sun. > >3.  Intel continues to make the Itanic and sells <10k/year to HP, its sole customer.  In order to amortize the cost the price per processor goes up to an obscene amount, HP tries to pass the cost along to the customers, who won't pay it, and move to IBM and Sun instead.  >  >4.  HP finally realizes it is riding a dead horse and commits to an emergency port of all enterprise OS's to Opterons.  Three years later as this port finally nears completion HP's last remaining enterprise customer completes the migration to IBM or Sun.A >C >5.  HP realizes that it has made a horrific, fatal error.  Carly shuts down production of all enterprise computers, sells the service organization, and uses the "savings" to give herself a hefty bonus.  All enterprise customers migrate to IBM or Sun." >n@>Unlike HP, Intel can walk away from this with nothing worse than a (very) bloody nose.  Intel can, and will, produce their own x86 64bit chip, write off Itanic, and they're still in business.  HP, on the other hand, is going to be very hard pressed to keep their HPUX and VMS customers in the aftermath of this debacle. >	>Pity that terrible management decisions will go unpunished.  Capellas will not have to forfeit any of his past pay or bonuses, even though his decision to move to Itanic may very well prove to be one of the worst business decisions of all time.  Ditto for his HP contemporaries.  > 	 >Regards,  > 
 >David Mathog  >mathog@caltech.edu1? >Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, CaltechQ >  >  >    >Q   --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:25:43 GMT6+ From: "Jay E. Morris" <usenet@epsilon3.com>c( Subject: Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!3 Message-ID: <bNsRb.19703$6o4.4266@fe2.texas.rr.com>s  > In message <efeRb.27976$U%5.181860@attbi_s03>, "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net> wrote:s >  .... > J > So yes, hp World will be held in the downtown Chicago area and yes there areeM > lots of good places to eat.  You'll also be close to some of world's finestnI > museums, the Shedd Aquarium and the Art Institute, none of which you're ( > likely to find in the burbs, anywhere. >  ...,  E Yes!!  I haven't been to the museums in over 20 years.  Time to start/ politicking.   -- e$ Jay E. Morris - morrisj@epsilon3.com@ Posted with Ink Spot (for Windows CE) from DejaVu Software, Inc.8 Usenet wherever you are - http://www.dejavusoftware.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2004 08:19:12 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)( Subject: Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0401270819.599ed618@posting.google.com>   ~ "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message news:<4015B74C.3692AF11@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>... > Rich Jordan wrote: > > f > > Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message news:<4015065B.290D929F@sture.homeip.net>... > > > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > > > > S > > > > > Does it say specifically where?  I hate travelling into chi-pit proper...v > > > >m > > > > And what is that ? > > >  > > > Chicago-Pittsburgh?  > >  > > chicago is a pit.  > B > Murder capital of the U.S. because guns have been outlawed here;I > therefore, only outlaws have guns, and the outlaws know this and flauntt > it.   D Guns are also outlawed in New York City and the murder rate (as wellE as most other crime rates) is way down, independent of any changes in7C the gun laws, AFAIA. I believe a change in policing is what brought-D the rates way down, including the arrest and conviction of those whoD carry guns. And including use of the "broken window" theory, and use@ of computers to analyze crime geograhically and deploying police accordingly.  C > The mayor has blatantly defied the FAA and federal prosecutors byeI > not only vandalizing an airport, but then purloining the media to boast ; > of his crime and his "teflon shield" against prosecution.t  % The mayor vandalized an airport? Huh?c   [...]a   ! > > the parking is too expensive,e > I > ...not to mention the parking tickets. How many other major cities havel > a "bureau of parking"?  D I can assure you that parking is very expensive in NYC. I don't knowD if we have a "bureau of parking", though. But the rules are (mostly)	 enforced!h   [...]6   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman7   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2004 10:56:51 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ( Subject: Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!3 Message-ID: <4JzpMrRbjo9c@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  n In article <b096a4ee.0401270819.599ed618@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:  C >> Murder capital of the U.S. because guns have been outlawed here;lJ >> therefore, only outlaws have guns, and the outlaws know this and flaunt >> it.   > F > Guns are also outlawed in New York City and the murder rate (as wellG > as most other crime rates) is way down, independent of any changes inoE > the gun laws, AFAIA. I believe a change in policing is what broughtiF > the rates way down, including the arrest and conviction of those whoF > carry guns. And including use of the "broken window" theory, and useB > of computers to analyze crime geograhically and deploying police > accordingly. >   F 	Yeah - no doubt due to stricter enforcement.  You have to be careful C 	drawing conclusions.  Really is a very regional metric in the U.S.c 	e= 	Also, things like this are big problems when concluding gun a 	controls lower crime:   http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:mq943Q2R06EJ:johnrlott.tripod.com/gunlaws.html+gun+laws+murder+rate+comparison&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-80  K Gun control advocates conveniently ignore that the nations with the highest:M homicide rates have gun bans. Studies, such as one conducted recently by Jeff O Miron at Boston University, which examined 44 countries, find that stricter gun@M control laws tend to lead to higher homicide rates. Countries such as Russia,EK which has banned guns since the communist revolution, have had murder ratesdO several times higher than that of the US. Even under the communists, the formerg% Soviet Union's rate was much higher. T  M Cross-sectional comparisons can frequently be misleading because many factors K affect crime and it is hard to account for them. What's more informative iseK that around the world ? from Australia to England ? countries have recentlyvN strengthened gun-control laws with the promise of lowering crime, only to haveM violent crime soar. v In the four years after the UK banned handguns in 1996,lM gun crime rose by 40 per cent. Similarly, since Australia's 1996 laws banning5K many guns, armed robberies rose by 51 per cent, unarmed robberies by 37 per-N cent, assaults by 24 per cent and kidnappings by 43 per cent. Although murders5 fell by 3 per cent, manslaughter rose by 16 per cent.a    9 	You also can't help but conclude that news organizations.= 	play the biggest part in slanting the news.  After all, froma$ 	that same study above we find this:  G Last year, the morning and evening news broadcasts on the three main US M television networks carried almost 200,000 words on contemporaneous gun crimeaO stories. By comparison, not one segment featured a civilian using a gun to saveb( a life. Newspapers are not much better.   G 	You would think someone preventing their family from being brutalized i 	would be newsworthy.e   				Robn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:26:43 -0500w< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>( Subject: Re: hpWorld-2004 - in Chicago!!9 Message-ID: <bv670m$olei9$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>    David J. Dachtera wrote: >...7 > flaunt it. The mayor has blatantly defied the FAA and0 federal : > prosecutors by not only vandalizing an airport, but then
 purloining9 > the media to boast of his crime and his "teflon shield"C againsto > prosecution. > ...h   $ SET MODE/ENABLE=EXTREME_RANT  6 "Vandalizing an airport?" Don't you mean "Destroyed an; airport?" He tore up the runways in the middle of the nights> with aircraft still on the ground! All in the name of fighting= terrorism, but anybody with half a brain knows that my wife'sh> mini-van can carry more explosives than the four seat aircraft I fly.  = I will not be attending HPWorld this year because the money I = spend in Chicago may mean a few extra pennies in that idiot's < pocket. Besides that, I sent an e-mail to him stating that I= would boycott anything happening in his city until he is gonev5 and I am not one to go back on a statement like that.M  > I thought HP had more scruples than to deal with Chicago after= that. Maybe Carley should ask her Gulfstream pilots what typen" of aircraft they learnt to fly in.   $ SET MODE/DISABLE=EXTREME_RANTd   -- h Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.e Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXm www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:21:52 +0000eO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>gK Subject: Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheaps0 Message-ID: <bv5e40$jkr$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rick Jones wrote: R > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >>Rick Jones wrote:e >  > A >>>But you do not suspect that IBM may not be putting effort intot@ >>>lower-end POWER4+ TPC-C because they may not be competitive?  >>>o >  > ' >>I doubt they feel the need to bother.h >  >  >>(763,898/32)*4=96104 >  > > > Now Andrew, you wouldn't be making public estimates of TPC-CF > performance would you?  I thought the TPC took a rather dimm view of) > member entities doing things like that.a >   & I don't see any mention to TPM do you.  3 Let me fill you in on a little Alpha history befores you get to hoity toity.r  4 Prior to the GS320's announcement certain posters to8 this group were predicting based on information received: from Compaq that the systems would do 200,000 TPM or more.  = I don't remember TPC being partial to that kind of behaviour.j  7 Now granted you bought Compaq so you have inherited the0) problem but you are now the same company.m  8 So when your organisation behaves in a whiter then white way then get back to me.       Regardsz Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:27:43 +0000hO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>/K Subject: Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheap-0 Message-ID: <bv5ef0$jn8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rick Jones wrote: + > Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  > < >>If instead you attempt to use TPC-C scores to validate the9 >>performance of the processors that are in those servers  >  > E > But you have to keep the discussion strictly in the context of thateA > specific server - you cannot really use it to generalize to theeA > performance the processor can achieve on its own (or in another  > chipset/server). >   : Ohh come on Rick its not as if TPC is remotely like a real8 OLTP application. Read the justification for doing TPC-E if your really doubt this.  8 Its just a marketing tool, who do you think pays for the8 runs in most companies want to bet if its engineering or* somewhere a bit closer to sales/marketing.  4 And since its just a marketing tool getting precious; about how you interpret the results and their applicabilityr- to real world apps as also just too precious.e  6 Just give IBM their due they have got it to scale well5 on their platform and because of that they don't needt to do the low end tests.   Regardsi Andrew Harrisono > rick jones   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:47:59 +0000eO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>fK Subject: Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheapl0 Message-ID: <bv5fl0$k5o$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rick Jones wrote:l  G > Your faith on IBM is laudable - however, did you really mean to implydE > that a larger number of TPC submittals on the part of a vendor is ar
 > bad thing?   >   1 It depends on what you really think TPC-C is for.   5 If you thinks its a tool that will help you size yourO2 system then a large number of results are probably3 a good thing. The problem is that as you know TPC-C - doesn't have much applicability in this area.a  2 If you take the more sensible view that TPC-C is a3 marketing tool then fine spend as much as you like.0   Regards6 Andrew Harrison.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:07:16 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk" Subject: Re: Kerberos login on VMS) Message-ID: <bv5rak$rd1$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>d  q In article <buursg$m4aav$1@ID-191217.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Robert A.M. van Lopik" <lopik@mail.telepac.pt> writes:  >h, ><david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message$ >news:burmh3$feh$1@news.mdx.ac.uk...C >> In article <H_bQb.12903$G86.3793@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Rick Barry"o ><richard.barry@hp.com> writes: K >> >If you're talking about the external authentication feature provided bysC >> >PATHWORKS for logging into the system, that's still using NTLM.  >> > >> >> OK. >>L >> So it looks like we currently have no secure single password systems from >HPpK >> working with VMS and other OSs. Even Microsoft advise against using NTLMn >unless & >> you are forced to by older systems.	 >[ snip ]  >mL >The fact that MS has chosen Kerberos as the preferred mechanism is based onD >scalability; NTLM just carries more overhead than Kerberos in large
 >networks. >tL >NTLM in itself suffers from some weak encryption. With modern switched LANsA >this is less of a problem, because you can't eavesdrop on them. t  I Rubbish. Switched networks haven't provided sufficient protection against O sniffing for years. Public domain tools such as dsniff provide easy methods forp' sniffing traffic on a switched network.     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University  
 >Even then itlG >is good to know that NTLM actually comprises two mechanisms, the olderiJ >Lanmanager protocol and a newer NT protocol. For compatibility reasons byL >default both mechanisms are used in an interchange. The LANmanager part hasK >weak encription, exacerbated by the fact that it truncates the password towL >six characters and forces it to uppercase, which makes a brute force attackE >quite easy. However, with some registry settings on both clients andaG >servers, you can suppress the Lanmanager part. Of course older WindowslJ >versions, like w95, can't participate in such a network. When somebody is( >interested I could find the references. >aK >What I don't know (and maybe Rick Barry can tell us), is whether pathworks.@ >also supports the suppression of the old Lanmanager encryption. >gK >All of this written under the IIRC proviso, as it is some years ago that I  >looked into this. >- >regards >rob van lopik >  >4 >---' >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.e; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).vA >Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 19-1-2004  >a >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:10:07 -0500" From: norm.raphael@metso.com3 Subject: RE: Known problems with V7.3 security MUP? Q Message-ID: <OF573F2C8A.6DED7FA9-ON85256E28.004D962D-85256E28.004E18EF@metso.com>,  J hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) wrote on 01/26/2004 03:44:08 PM:m  
 > I wrote: > .. > >The initial eraction  >              ^^^--vvvsI >              REACTION is that patch kits which do NOT require a re-bootsI > >but DO require logging out and back in can provide better information.e >eG > And in case you didn't know what my fat fingers intended, now you do.i >u1 > Feel to laugh.  (Or at least to checkle a bit.)l  H Well, I decided _not_ to react and correct "eraction", but I wonder if IA may now "feel" free "to laugh" a bit, as I have never been one tot
 "checkle."  5 Have you considered the Atkins diet for your fingers?e   >B > --G >       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FLH USAsH >           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)@ >       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.o >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:07:08 -0500i From: norm.raphael@metso.com3 Subject: Re: Known problems with V7.3 security MUP? Q Message-ID: <OF84817C30.C39A24D7-ON85256E28.004D2279-85256E28.004DD2DE@metso.com>	  J "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote on 01/26/2004 09:18:19 PM:m  ? > When you have seventeen patches to apply and fourteen of them E > require a reboot, the temptation to cut corners is overwhelming!  InE > speak from experience.  I rebooted after the UPDATE patch and againeC > after the SYS patch.  I put the next six patches in and rebooted, D > put about six more in and rebooted,  then put the remainder in and  > rebooted.  I got away with it! > G > It would be helpful if the instructions graded the need for a reboot;  e.g.? >     You absolutely must reboot before doing anything else, ori. >     Reboot before running your applications.  J It has been my experience that unless it says ECO X is a pre-requisite forG ECO Y and ECO X says a reboot is required, that if all you are doing isnJ applying ECO's, you can apply them all and then reboot.  As stated, if the ECO!. is to PCSI then the rules are a bit different.  I Also, as Charlie Hammond correctly says, the supported way often avoids aw lot  of time and pain.r   >IB > I realize that there may be finer gradations in the above but itC > would still be helpful to have guidance that's a little easier tow? > follow.  I had set the SRM console to NOT do an INIT at every F > reboot, and I had set STARTUP_P1 "MIN" and the reboots STILL took an > annoyingly long time.r >  > Charlie Hammond wrote:2 > In article <401284F8.57E8194D@sture.homeip.net>,. > Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes: >2 > .. >2D > I encountered a similar problem when applying VMS731_PCSI V1.0 andD > VMS731_UPDATE V1.0 in a single session; the second PRODUCT INSTALLF > failed, so I rebooted and then it worked. I realised too late that IH > might have simply been able to get away with logging in again, but did" > kick myself that I hadn't tried. >e > .. >lI > I have sent a suggestion to the POLYCENTER Software Installation (PCSI)ME > utility engineering team that they emphasise this in future patchesn > to the PCSI utility. >sH > Now this is NOT a shot at anyone, but this can only work IF installersE > actually read and follow instructions that come with the patch kit,hE > and also pay attention to messages that PRODUCT INSTALL <patch-kit>iE > displays.  While there is NO REASON to find fault along these lines D > in the situatin currently under discussion, a surprising number of= > problems arise from NOT reading and following instructions.pB > O.K., maybe it is not surprising -- human nature and all that...G > In any case, this is another reminder that the instructions are theren > for a reason.o >a >g   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:10:36 GMTs3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)03 Subject: RE: Known problems with V7.3 security MUP?e3 Message-ID: <wQxRb.13175$Fj3.8504@news.cpqcorp.net>l  R In article <OF573F2C8A.6DED7FA9-ON85256E28.004D962D-85256E28.004E18EF@metso.com>,  norm.raphael@metso.com writes:  @ >Have you [Charlie] considered the Atkins diet for your fingers?  - Actually, no.  I'll take it under advisement.I  B Although I have never been formally diagnosed, I suspect that I amB mildly dyslexic.  At least that would tend to explain some of the * problems I have with spelling and typeing.   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2004 16:55:43 -0000 From: OIC <oh@i.see> Subject: Re: NEWS2 again... 7 Message-ID: <4HP7XBCY38013.4553587963@anonymous.poster>t  < Supertroll J F M e z e i < j f m e z e i @istop.com> whined:  L >Ralph seemed to have fixed News2 by restricting only one connection per IP.5 >But since last week, I have not been able to get in.a >s7 >Has anyone been able to access News2 since last week ?m >eK >Perhaps it is time for a few of us to meet in Ottawa and corner Ralph in aaL >dark alley until he promises to give use a stable news2. If he doesn't caveO >in, we could torture him by forcing to watch and listen to any movie dubbed inw >french.  N Amazing . . . and even with all these supposed problems you've still been able+ to keep up a full usenet trolling schedule.    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2004 16:55:53 -0000 From: OIC <oh@i.see> Subject: Re: NEWS2 again....6 Message-ID: <2TKDHJDD38013.455474537@anonymous.poster>  < Supertroll J F M e z e i < j f m e z e i @istop.com> whined:  L >Ralph seemed to have fixed News2 by restricting only one connection per IP.5 >But since last week, I have not been able to get in.  >s7 >Has anyone been able to access News2 since last week ?T > K >Perhaps it is time for a few of us to meet in Ottawa and corner Ralph in anL >dark alley until he promises to give use a stable news2. If he doesn't caveO >in, we could torture him by forcing to watch and listen to any movie dubbed in- >french.  N Amazing . . . and even with all these supposed problems you've still been able+ to keep up a full usenet trolling schedule.1   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:15:48 -0500 & From: WoofWoof <oftenbark@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: NEWS2 again....+ Message-ID: <40169CC4.8B5B8C8C@hotmail.com>c  F C'mon you guys .... did it ever occur to you that some jerk just mightA be impersonating him? Does the jerk really forge the headers that, well?e  
 OIC wrote: > > > Supertroll J F M e z e i < j f m e z e i @istop.com> whined: > N > >Ralph seemed to have fixed News2 by restricting only one connection per IP.7 > >But since last week, I have not been able to get in.. > > 9 > >Has anyone been able to access News2 since last week ?p > > M > >Perhaps it is time for a few of us to meet in Ottawa and corner Ralph in amN > >dark alley until he promises to give use a stable news2. If he doesn't caveQ > >in, we could torture him by forcing to watch and listen to any movie dubbed ind
 > >french. > P > Amazing . . . and even with all these supposed problems you've still been able- > to keep up a full usenet trolling schedule.    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2004 17:52:35 -0000 From: OIC <oh@i.see> Subject: Re: NEWS2 again.....a6 Message-ID: <673NO2M238013.494849537@anonymous.poster>  < Supertroll J F M e z e i < j f m e z e i @istop.com> whined:  L >Ralph seemed to have fixed News2 by restricting only one connection per IP.5 >But since last week, I have not been able to get in.. >>7 >Has anyone been able to access News2 since last week ?0 >0K >Perhaps it is time for a few of us to meet in Ottawa and corner Ralph in a2L >dark alley until he promises to give use a stable news2. If he doesn't caveO >in, we could torture him by forcing to watch and listen to any movie dubbed inn >french.  N Amazing . . . and even with all these supposed problems you've still been able+ to keep up a full usenet trolling schedule.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:35:32 +0000 + From: Peter Jansson <webmaster@jansson.net>s< Subject: NFS Client on OpenVMS AXP Version V3.2, UCX V3.2-9.C Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.58.0401270927520.23718@otaku.freeshell.org>n   Dear newsgroup,n  C I am trying to mount a remotely exported UNIX files system under my-D OpenVMS AXP Version V3.2, UCX V3.2-9, system. I have started the NFSJ Client using @UCX$CONFIG. I have added a user name in the PROXY data base:  
 UCX> sh proxy0  ; VMS User_name     Type      User_ID    Group_ID   Host_namem  8 USER1             O         1234       2345       remote UCX>  J Then, logged in as SYSTEM, I try to mount the remote files system with the command:  M UCX>MOUNT DNFS0: /HOST="remote" /PATH="/path/on/remote" /AUTOMOUNT /RETRIES=4a  # However, I get the following error:   1 %UCX$DNFSMOUNT-E-MOUNTFAIL, error mounting DNFS0:N- -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHDEV, no such device available   J Does anybody have information about how to get this working or where I can read more about this?,  
 Best regards,   
 Peter Janssone http://jansson.net/s   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2004 05:05:12 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) @ Subject: Re: NFS Client on OpenVMS AXP Version V3.2, UCX V3.2-9.3 Message-ID: <D3bQgx3xtLOs@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  q In article <Pine.NEB.4.58.0401270927520.23718@otaku.freeshell.org>, Peter Jansson <webmaster@jansson.net> writes:r > Dear newsgroup,r > E > I am trying to mount a remotely exported UNIX files system under mya/ > OpenVMS AXP Version V3.2, UCX V3.2-9, system.e  A You will need to be more accurate in describing your environment.f  H The next version of OpenVMS AXP after V1.5 was V6.1, unless you consider Field Test T2.0.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:17:07 +0000D+ From: Peter Jansson <webmaster@jansson.net>c@ Subject: Re: NFS Client on OpenVMS AXP Version V3.2, UCX V3.2-9.C Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.58.0401271215180.21989@otaku.freeshell.org>f  	 Hi again,i  I I have solved the problem using our local administrator. The solution was / really silly: I had to restart TCP/IP services!,  5 Thank you all for nice and quick replies to my query.   
 Best regards,0
 Peter Jansson= http://jansson.net/-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:27:01 GMTp& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>" Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 Compilers3 Message-ID: <pjwRb.13164$Og3.7381@news.cpqcorp.net>    JF Mezei wrote:.   > N > I've heard that HP has its own compilers. Is that still the case ? has thereP > been any discussion of using HP compilers for VMS ? Or was the donation of VMSM > engineers to Intel made in such a way that it was impossible to backtrack ?r  G The Itanium compilers you find on HP-UX are from HP (to the best of my tH knowledge).  They are big-endian hosted compilers generating big-endian A code.  I am not sure if they know how to deal with little-endian OC systems.  Also, not to be a broken record, not all of the compiler .@ engineers were transferred to Intel.  What am I?  Chopped liver?   > M > Does this mean that the compilers on VMS-IA64 and image analysis tools willlL > gradually spread apart from the VMS-Alpha compilers ? Will this eventuallyH > cause problems of incompatibility or is there the expectation that theP > compilers and other tools will remain 100% compatible to the user/programmer ?  D That could happen, but we are very much aware of this risks and are + working to make sure that it doesn't occur.,     -- 0 John ReaganM' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leaderm Hewlett-Packard Companyc   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:37:28 +0000gO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>9Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 Compilers (was: Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices   <- or 0 Message-ID: <bv67kp$skp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:f > Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > K >>  OpenVMS is using the Intel Itanium Executable and Linkable Format (ELF)"L >>  object file formats and the DWARF debugging support, and has worked withJ >>  Intel to provide the extensions and the behaviours that match customer? >>  expectations and the OpenVMS calling standard requirements.u >  > N > I've heard that HP has its own compilers. Is that still the case ? has thereP > been any discussion of using HP compilers for VMS ? Or was the donation of VMSM > engineers to Intel made in such a way that it was impossible to backtrack ?  >   9 HP has its compilers, you can also use Intels compiler ase well.   : HP for example use the HP-UX, HP/ANSI C Compiler for their9 SPECint runs or at least thats what has the best numbers.-   SGI use Intels Compiler.  5 The HP compiler provides the fastest SPECint results.u  5 The HP compilers are running big endian, I don't knowc= what the Intel Compiler does but I think the SGI historically. are little-endian.  7 For SPECfp HP use Intels compiler running on RedHat, itn6 appears to be quicker for FP than HP's Compiler though< there don't seem to be any 1.5 GHZ numbers from HP using the HP compiler.  9 So if you happen to have a combination of int and fp apps 6 you need two Itanium boxes, one running HP-UX and apps2 compiled using HP's compiler (int) and one running/ RedHat and apps compiled using Intels Compilersk (FP).V   Regardst Andrew Harrisond        M > Does this mean that the compilers on VMS-IA64 and image analysis tools will L > gradually spread apart from the VMS-Alpha compilers ? Will this eventuallyH > cause problems of incompatibility or is there the expectation that theP > compilers and other tools will remain 100% compatible to the user/programmer ?   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2004 01:19:39 -0800' From: simon.adaway@ukaea.org.uk (Simon)l/ Subject: Re: Parity Error on Removable MO disks3< Message-ID: <b2d9b89e.0401270119.159a0b0@posting.google.com>  i Glenn Everhart <Everhart-nospam@gce.com> wrote in message news:<40155525$0$7342$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>... ? > Write a little utility if you can't find one that just does at= > block at a time $qio from the MO disk (mount it /foreign or ? > enable log_io or phy_io priv (forget which) to let you accessr= > it unmounted; think it is log_io) and writes the block to ao@ > file one block at a time with writevirtual. Alternatively make@ > a contig file the size of the MO and point a VD unit at it and# > use write logical to the VD unit.. > ? > When done make the file contiguous, point vddriver at it withoF > asnvd/assign, and mount the VD unit. That will be r/w and presumablyB > have working underlying storage so it can probably be recovered. > G > If you still can't read the copy (which should try to accept whatever C > it gets from the block-at-a-time $qio and copy to output!) you'lluC > have to use other tools (hex editors maybe) to muck around on the @ > copy to fix whatever is wrong. I would suggest also looking atF > something like ods-2-reader.c which might be able to pull enough offI > a drive to get what you need even with it unmounted or mounted /foreigne? > since that utility won't check as many checksums and so on assA > mount and thus may forgive some of the bit rot you probably are 	 > seeing.a > B > If you want, it will probably help to try several retries of badF > read $qio calls. Sometimes an optical will succeed a second or thirdC > try when first one fails. Archive the copy once made to somethinge > you can trust! >  > Glenn Everhart > < > (n.b. - there are a couple ods-2 readers for windows too.) >  > Simon wrote: > > Hi,b > > J > > We have data on some Magneto Opticals (MO's) that goes back some time.J > > There are no longer drives that will write to the format ~300MByte perG > > side @512bytes/sector. This would not be a problem since the new HPBJ > > drives, can read but not write that format - and read is what we need. > > G > > This would be OK. When I mount the disk, the system (Open VMS V7.3)nD > > will report 'volume is write-locked' ...but the data is there soJ > > that's great - this figures. But some disks report 'parity error' whenI > > I try and mount ,and then gives up. Now we can't do fixes to the diskuJ > > since we can't mount it - and even if we could, we are write-locked by$ > > the old format? So are we stuck? > > 
 > > Right? > > 	 > > Simon   F I think I'll try the ODS-2 reader for Windows idea first - the data isB about 15years old (the spec for MO's should be able to handle this$ easily - I feel a bit cheated here!)  , Thanks for the help guys - much appreciated!   Simonc   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:04:00 GMTt3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) ( Subject: Re: PIPE and modified DCL table3 Message-ID: <A5vRb.13150$x93.7568@news.cpqcorp.net>   * In article <40158527.FE557A6F@istop.com>, , JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:  M >                     ... what would cause your interactive process to access ? >one version of dcltables, but PIPE accessing another version ?   F When PIPEd commands execute in a subprocess, the effect of SET COMMANDC in your interactive process will not be seen in the PIPEd commands. ! Same as for any other subprocess.l   -- "J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:38:06 GMTe> From: Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com>( Subject: Re: PIPE and modified DCL table= Message-ID: <yBvRb.10502$_N7.4825@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>t   David Jones wrote:  + > In message <40158527.FE557A6F@istop.com>,l0 >   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > N >>If I read this properly, what would cause your interactive process to access@ >>one version of dcltables, but PIPE accessing another version ? >  > ? > You will get this effect if your login.com procedure issues as# > "set command/tables=..." command.i >  > > > David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929/ > Ohio State University        |      Internet:uN > 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu< > Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu > 3 > Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.       one way to alleviate this is to:  7 $pipe this command | (set command=x.cld ; next command)v  $ note the spaces surrounding the ";".     Michael Austin.t   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2004 11:29:47 -06004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)6 Subject: SW800 with an HSZ50 FREE!  (SF Bay Area only)3 Message-ID: <3Vsb8iAxT7Yq@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  9 If you live in the San Francisco Bay Area and want a freen; SW800 (H9A02-XA) cabinet with an HSZ50 and six disk shelves : let me know by email.  The only catch is that you have to  come pick it up.    9 Send email to the demunged kuhrt at Encompasserve dot orgd   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:11:46 +0000,O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>dI Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemsi0 Message-ID: <bv5dh2$jcn$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Mark Berryman wrote: > jlsue wrote: > H >> [a clear and concise response to Andrew show some of the holes in his >  >  >  arguments] > G > This has been an interesting discussion.  From my point of view, the 2G > only thing Andrew has "proven" is his inability to grasp the concept cK > that his interpretation of things may not always be spot on.  There have @I > been some very telling points raised in this discussion.  Based on his W: > posts, Andrew firmly believes he has rebutted every one. >   > When you have sucessfully responded to my points and only then2 do you get to make the above point with any force.  = As it is you know full well that you have failed and claiming : that I didn't understand the point you were trying to make
 is pointless.i  9 I understood your point completely, my incomprehension if 8 anything is in trying to determine why your thought your concept was valid.     Regardsc Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:15:31 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>rI Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemsc0 Message-ID: <bv5do3$jg1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   jlsue wrote:G > On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:55:53 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyf0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >  > : >>I am not harrassing anyone, I am putting some trolls out >>of their misery. >  > I > To be fair, there's only been ONE troll in this respect.  And he's justoK > yanking your chain, pulling your leg; and you seem to take the bait everyoJ > time.  Most of us just ignore  him because we already know he's a little
 > off kilter.a > 3 You seem to have missed Keiths contribution to thisp3 thread. It was his posting of a CERT based security.4 survey that "showed" OpenVMS's security to be better4 than other OS's that started this particular thread.   Regards  Andrew Harrisonw   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 11:22:58 +0000hO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>-I Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemsY0 Message-ID: <bv5hmi$kus$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   jlsue wrote:G > On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:40:19 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy90 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  > >>Sorry but this is demonstrably untrue, POP, LAND etc dispove< >>your point, there isn't to my knowlege a patch that refers9 >>to LAND but OpenVMS IP services were vunerable to LAND.  >  > J > So, that must mean that OpenVMS IP services is still vulnerable to LAND? > D > Or are you talking about a very old, unsupported version of TCP/IP > services?I >   A Does it matter or help your argument ? there arn't any current IPl1 stacks that I know of that are vunerable to LAND.r  B When the IP stack was current it was vunerable, are you now trying= to suggest that the vunerability is irrelevent because it was < in the past. Thats not even good BS certainly not up to your normal standards.b   > L >>>Also, your attempt to draw some full-blown conclusion about the OS merelyG >>>based on a single - very arguable - data point is invalid.  For yourlM >>>opinion about how unsecure VMS is to be true, you'd have to come up with arL >>>lot more data points, and you wouldn't be allowed to ignore opposing data
 >>>either. >>>  >>: >>Sorry but again this is untrue, I have provided multiple
 >>datapoints.s >  > A > And I believe almost all of those were discussed and addressed.B >   5 You may beleive that but since yo have no evidence toc6 support that belief I would recommend that you revisit your assumption. > J >>>Anyone can prove a point with carefully selected data.  But that tacticK >>>does more to call the originator's motives into question than it does toi >>>advance the arguments.i >>>r >> >>So what is your excuse ? >  > H > None needed, I'm not making outlandish claims, so have nothing needing > proof. >   A Nor am I, outlandish claims would be ones that have no supportingh@ data to back them up. You forget that I have provided supporting data.n   > L > So what?  That statement demonstrates a severe lack of knowledge how largeJ > corporations work.  OpenVMS engineering doesn't even always KNOW about aJ > particular product that some other group writes (ABS' pre-cursor product > was one of those). >   @ What has any of this BS got to do with HP/Compaqs responsibility$ to provide a secure software stack ?    < > How do you figure that OpenVMS engineering is responsible? >   D I don't I assume that HP/Compaq is responsible or are you suggestingB that this also isn't the case. And if that is your suggestion then5 perhaps you should explain who is responsible ? CA !!g > J >>>Also not that you'll NEVER win the argument that layered product issuesN >>>should be reported as an OS vulnerability in th is discussion, so why waste% >>>our time any longer on that issue.  >>>o >>? >>Sorry more BS, the layered products are produced by HP/compaqs? >>and are required by your customers. If they arn't reported as * >>an OS issue then how are they reported ? >  > G > Just because you want it to be BS and reported as an OS vulerability?eJ > Where is this rule written down?  I'd like to review it.  Unless there'sG > some standard by which this is applied, you're just spouting your own. > wishful thinking.. >   : Again you miss the point entirely in your attempt to spin.  4 Someone has to have the responsibility for reporting9 vunerabiliites to CERT (assuming you are going to bother)i9 if you don't want to report layered product vunerabilitesE7 as part of the OS well fine but you have to report themo. somewhere, currently they are entirely absent.   > ; >>It would appear that your contention that OpenVMS is moree< >>secure than other OS's is mainly based on the way that the: >>OS and its layered products are packaged rather than how >>secure the whole solution is.  >  > G > Not necessarily.  It's already been explained to you that most of the J > vulnerabilities reported elsewhere do not result in any kind of securityI > problem on OpenVMS.  Patches may still be issued since they may producehM > undesirable results (e.g., process deletion).  But often they don't producee5 > the same results or concerns as on other platforms.o > @ No it has been explained a couple of very specific vunerabilites; on OpenVMS cause a denial of service rather than a securityE8 breach, this however would still fall into the Vunerable4 category. This however does not apply to the others.  8 POD, LAND etc OpenVMS with a Compaq IP stack was just as@ vunerable are all the other platforms that posted vunerabilites.   > > >>And sadly for you because it just exposes your BS a bit moreA >>sometimes HP/Compaq have reported layered product vunerabilitess >>as OS issues in CERT.$ >  > I > I always laugh at this.  You seem to have such low self-esteem that you L > can't quite get your head around the fact that some folks just don't agreeB > with you.  But you've got to constantly try to prove yourself byI > name-calling, or trivializing their arguments with silly terms like BS.  >   A And I always laugh at OpenVMS security BS merchants who are happy4C to tout the number of CERTS for OpenVMS around while being unhapppy - to allow the layered products to be included.h  > Why not put it through EAL (which would require you to include6 layered products) then you wouldn't have BS about it ?     Regardsl Andrew Harrisont   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 11:54:00 +0000aO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>eI Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems'0 Message-ID: <bv5jgp$lj4$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Dave Weatherall wrote:F > On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:09:12 UTC, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >  >>Bob Koehler wrote: >> >>>In article <buojdg$74u$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:r >>>r >>> 9 >>>>Fact, HP/Compaq and the various owners of TCPWARE and < >>>>Multinet have released patches for general vunerabilites< >>>>in OpenSource components which apply to those components9 >>>>running on OpenVMS and have admitted the vunerabilitye; >>>>in CERT advisories. Why would they do this if they weret >>>>not vunerable ?f >>>c >>>t? >>>   Issuing a patch and admitting "affected" shows that theretB >>>   must have been a bug.  It does not prove that the bug was a  >>>   security issue.l >>>  >>; >>Ohh more grasping at straws. Admiting that there is a bug < >>with a patch for it in a forum that is only concerned with. >>security issues that it is a security issue. >  >  > AndrewH >                you've done this to death and it's degenerating into a  > (boring) Monty Python sketch.   : So what is your point exactly, there seems precious little+ in your posting that relates to the thread.    Regardst Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 11:50:04 +0000uO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>uI Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems 0 Message-ID: <bv5j9c$lhs$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:c > In article <erd210pggj66tjjn5navnfp4ei2arg0l13@4ax.com>, jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes:0 > G >>On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:07:04 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancys0 >><Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  > : >>>Ironically OpenVMS has no EAL certification of any kind; >>>Solaris, AIX, HP-UX do. Perhaps instead of claiming thatB9 >>>OpenVMS is secure you should cough up the cash and geth >>>it evaluated. >>E >>EAL: is a new one to me.  I do know that specific configurations ofdK >>OpenVMS, layered products, and hardware have acheived very high govermentaL >>security ratings (U.S. Fed).  It has been, and is still even, used in some$ >>exceptionally high-security areas. >> >  >  >    EAL is a joke.c >   3 Tell that to NIST and the NSA in fact tell it to HPi# they put HP-UX through EAL testing.o  H >    Since Solaris and W2K have EAL certifications I thought it must be E >    pretty meaningless.  I tracked down some definitions and finallyU= >    found a web site (nist.gov) which explained some things.i >   9 Amusing, you claim to be someone who knows about computere< security but you had never heard of the only internationally= agreed standard for certifying systems and network components26 from a security standpoint its also a standard that is. required for most UK/US/EU government systems.     Rather revealing.k  D >    EAL certification is part of a pretty high level international K >    aggreement on computer security issues.  To be EAL certified you have nK >    to meet some ISO-9000 like requirements, including things like having sM >    an org chart.  I looked for more meaningfull security requirements, but g6 >    if there are any they must be pretty well hidden. >   H "EAL4 (see Table 6.5) provides assurance by an analysis of the security D functions, using a functional and complete interface specification, H guidance documentation, the high-level and low-level design of the TOE, ? and a subset of the implementation, to understand the security oI behaviour. Assurance is additionally gained through an informal model of   the TOE security policy.  E The analysis is supported by independent testing of the TOE security  A functions, evidence of developer testing based on the functional  H specification and high-level design, selective independent confirmation G of the developer test results, strength of function analysis, evidence  > of a developer search for vulnerabilities, and an independent I vulnerability analysis demonstrating resistance to penetration attackers n with a low attack potential."a  > I put the EAL4 description down because is what HP-UX, AIX and
 Solaris have.   F As a matter of interest ever wondered why the tests are run in "labs".   Regardsr Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2004 08:08:59 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)aI Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemsi3 Message-ID: <HeM5ecz5meWr@eisner.encompasserve.org>l   In article <bv5j9c$lhs$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:J > "EAL4 (see Table 6.5) provides assurance by an analysis of the security F > functions, using a functional and complete interface specification, J > guidance documentation, the high-level and low-level design of the TOE, A > and a subset of the implementation, to understand the security rK > behaviour. Assurance is additionally gained through an informal model of - > the TOE security policy.  ?    Saying so is far from making it so.  Witness the Windows EALc<    certification.  I don't care which politicians signed it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:03:40 +0000mO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> I Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemss0 Message-ID: <bv624t$qqa$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <bv5j9c$lhs$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > J >>"EAL4 (see Table 6.5) provides assurance by an analysis of the security F >>functions, using a functional and complete interface specification, J >>guidance documentation, the high-level and low-level design of the TOE, A >>and a subset of the implementation, to understand the security  K >>behaviour. Assurance is additionally gained through an informal model of l >>the TOE security policy. >  > A >    Saying so is far from making it so.  Witness the Windows EALn> >    certification.  I don't care which politicians signed it. >    Take it up with NIST/NSA  ; What you may not have noticed (since you don't seem to knowa9 anything about EAL) that EAL has a hierachy of assurance.y  > EAL1/EAL2/EAL3/EAL4, not all assurances are the same. Remember the C1/C2/C3/B1/B2/B3.  0 C1 was almost wide open and virtually worthless.   Regards6 Andrew HarrisonM   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:13:59 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukI Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemse) Message-ID: <bv668n$1r5$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>a   In article <bv5j9c$lhs$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >Bob Koehler wrote: d >> In article <erd210pggj66tjjn5navnfp4ei2arg0l13@4ax.com>, jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes: >> sH >>>On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:07:04 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy1 >>><Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:l >> t >>  ; >>>>Ironically OpenVMS has no EAL certification of any kinds< >>>>Solaris, AIX, HP-UX do. Perhaps instead of claiming that: >>>>OpenVMS is secure you should cough up the cash and get >>>>it evaluated.h >>>eF >>>EAL: is a new one to me.  I do know that specific configurations ofL >>>OpenVMS, layered products, and hardware have acheived very high govermentM >>>security ratings (U.S. Fed).  It has been, and is still even, used in some % >>>exceptionally high-security areas.w >>>o >>   >> d >>    EAL is a joke. >>   >a4 >Tell that to NIST and the NSA in fact tell it to HP$ >they put HP-UX through EAL testing. >oI >>    Since Solaris and W2K have EAL certifications I thought it must be EF >>    pretty meaningless.  I tracked down some definitions and finally> >>    found a web site (nist.gov) which explained some things. >> 1 >S: >Amusing, you claim to be someone who knows about computer= >security but you had never heard of the only internationallyd> >agreed standard for certifying systems and network components7 >from a security standpoint its also a standard that ist/ >required for most UK/US/EU government systems.u >s >n >Rather revealing. >wE >>    EAL certification is part of a pretty high level international eL >>    aggreement on computer security issues.  To be EAL certified you have L >>    to meet some ISO-9000 like requirements, including things like having N >>    an org chart.  I looked for more meaningfull security requirements, but 7 >>    if there are any they must be pretty well hidden.e >>   >RI >"EAL4 (see Table 6.5) provides assurance by an analysis of the security iE >functions, using a functional and complete interface specification,  I >guidance documentation, the high-level and low-level design of the TOE, e@ >and a subset of the implementation, to understand the security J >behaviour. Assurance is additionally gained through an informal model of  >the TOE security policy.a >0F >The analysis is supported by independent testing of the TOE security B >functions, evidence of developer testing based on the functional I >specification and high-level design, selective independent confirmation NH >of the developer test results, strength of function analysis, evidence ? >of a developer search for vulnerabilities, and an independent  J >vulnerability analysis demonstrating resistance to penetration attackers  >with a low attack potential." >s? >I put the EAL4 description down because is what HP-UX, AIX andx >Solaris have. > G >As a matter of interest ever wondered why the tests are run in "labs".  >H >Regards >Andrew Harrison >u   For another view of EAL 4 seeo  ) http://eros.cs.jhd.edu/~shap/NT-EAL4.htmlr      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   >o >'   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:28:15 +0000 (UTC)I From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukI Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemse) Message-ID: <bv673f$1r6$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>.   In article <bv624t$qqa$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >Bob Koehler wrote:H >> In article <bv5j9c$lhs$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:a >> rK >>>"EAL4 (see Table 6.5) provides assurance by an analysis of the security ,G >>>functions, using a functional and complete interface specification, iK >>>guidance documentation, the high-level and low-level design of the TOE, eB >>>and a subset of the implementation, to understand the security L >>>behaviour. Assurance is additionally gained through an informal model of  >>>the TOE security policy.a >> . >> eB >>    Saying so is far from making it so.  Witness the Windows EAL? >>    certification.  I don't care which politicians signed it.  >> v >i >Take it up with NIST/NSAl >n< >What you may not have noticed (since you don't seem to know: >anything about EAL) that EAL has a hierachy of assurance. > ? >EAL1/EAL2/EAL3/EAL4, not all assurances are the same. RememberO >the C1/C2/C3/B1/B2/B3.  > 1 >C1 was almost wide open and virtually worthless.n >2  L but Windows 2000 has got the same "almost worthless" EAL 4 listing which youF are talking about. What you need is both a good Protection Profile andL a good evaluation level. A good evaluation level would probably be EAL 5 or  above.  % As I posted in a previous message seea  ) http://eros.cs.jhu.edu/~shap/NT-EAL4.htmlo    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   >Regards >Andrew Harrison >m   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:40:14 +0000tO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>II Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systems:0 Message-ID: <bv67pu$skp$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:  > In article <bv5j9c$lhs$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  >>Bob Koehler wrote: >>d >>>In article <erd210pggj66tjjn5navnfp4ei2arg0l13@4ax.com>, jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes: >>>f >>>oI >>>>On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:07:04 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyn2 >>>><Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >>>v >>>t< >>>>>Ironically OpenVMS has no EAL certification of any kind= >>>>>Solaris, AIX, HP-UX do. Perhaps instead of claiming that-; >>>>>OpenVMS is secure you should cough up the cash and get. >>>>>it evaluated. >>>>G >>>>EAL: is a new one to me.  I do know that specific configurations ofeM >>>>OpenVMS, layered products, and hardware have acheived very high govermentvN >>>>security ratings (U.S. Fed).  It has been, and is still even, used in some& >>>>exceptionally high-security areas. >>>> >>>e >>>l >>>   EAL is a joke. >>>t >>5 >>Tell that to NIST and the NSA in fact tell it to HPn% >>they put HP-UX through EAL testing.l >> >>I >>>   Since Solaris and W2K have EAL certifications I thought it must be  F >>>   pretty meaningless.  I tracked down some definitions and finally> >>>   found a web site (nist.gov) which explained some things. >>>e >>; >>Amusing, you claim to be someone who knows about computer > >>security but you had never heard of the only internationally? >>agreed standard for certifying systems and network componentsN > 8 >>from a security standpoint its also a standard that is > 0 >>required for most UK/US/EU government systems. >> >> >>Rather revealing.  >> >>E >>>   EAL certification is part of a pretty high level international  L >>>   aggreement on computer security issues.  To be EAL certified you have L >>>   to meet some ISO-9000 like requirements, including things like having N >>>   an org chart.  I looked for more meaningfull security requirements, but 7 >>>   if there are any they must be pretty well hidden.g >>>  >>J >>"EAL4 (see Table 6.5) provides assurance by an analysis of the security F >>functions, using a functional and complete interface specification, J >>guidance documentation, the high-level and low-level design of the TOE, A >>and a subset of the implementation, to understand the security  K >>behaviour. Assurance is additionally gained through an informal model of e >>the TOE security policy. >>G >>The analysis is supported by independent testing of the TOE security -C >>functions, evidence of developer testing based on the functional eJ >>specification and high-level design, selective independent confirmation I >>of the developer test results, strength of function analysis, evidence c@ >>of a developer search for vulnerabilities, and an independent K >>vulnerability analysis demonstrating resistance to penetration attackers n >>with a low attack potential."I >>@ >>I put the EAL4 description down because is what HP-UX, AIX and >>Solaris have.n >>H >>As a matter of interest ever wondered why the tests are run in "labs". >>	 >>Regardsf >>Andrew Harrisonu >> >  >  > For another view of EAL 4 see- > + > http://eros.cs.jhd.edu/~shap/NT-EAL4.html4 >  >    Error   9      The requested item could not be loaded by the proxy.S  H      Netscape Proxy is unable to locate the server: eros.cs.jhd.edu The H server does not have a DNS entry. Check the server name in the Location  (URL) and try again.  : Its certainly a different view of EAL4 though probably not quite what you meant.s   Regards  Andrew Harrisona >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >  >  >>   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:05:48 +0000 (UTC)n From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukI Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemsq) Message-ID: <bv699s$2p6$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>e   In article <bv67pu$skp$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> In article <bv5j9c$lhs$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:o >> t >>>Bob Koehler wrote:  >>>ne >>>>In article <erd210pggj66tjjn5navnfp4ei2arg0l13@4ax.com>, jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes:- >>>> >>>>J >>>>>On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:07:04 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy3 >>>>><Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:e >>>> >>>>= >>>>>>Ironically OpenVMS has no EAL certification of any kinds> >>>>>>Solaris, AIX, HP-UX do. Perhaps instead of claiming that< >>>>>>OpenVMS is secure you should cough up the cash and get >>>>>>it evaluated.e >>>>> H >>>>>EAL: is a new one to me.  I do know that specific configurations ofN >>>>>OpenVMS, layered products, and hardware have acheived very high govermentO >>>>>security ratings (U.S. Fed).  It has been, and is still even, used in someo' >>>>>exceptionally high-security areas.e >>>>>a >>>> >>>> >>>>   EAL is a joke.- >>>> >>>-6 >>>Tell that to NIST and the NSA in fact tell it to HP& >>>they put HP-UX through EAL testing. >>>o >>>nJ >>>>   Since Solaris and W2K have EAL certifications I thought it must be G >>>>   pretty meaningless.  I tracked down some definitions and finally.? >>>>   found a web site (nist.gov) which explained some things.n >>>> >>>g< >>>Amusing, you claim to be someone who knows about computer? >>>security but you had never heard of the only internationallye@ >>>agreed standard for certifying systems and network components >> c9 >>>from a security standpoint its also a standard that isr >> u1 >>>required for most UK/US/EU government systems.n >>>i >>>  >>>Rather revealing. >>>s >>>eF >>>>   EAL certification is part of a pretty high level international M >>>>   aggreement on computer security issues.  To be EAL certified you have aM >>>>   to meet some ISO-9000 like requirements, including things like having eO >>>>   an org chart.  I looked for more meaningfull security requirements, but o8 >>>>   if there are any they must be pretty well hidden. >>>> >>>eK >>>"EAL4 (see Table 6.5) provides assurance by an analysis of the security eG >>>functions, using a functional and complete interface specification, tK >>>guidance documentation, the high-level and low-level design of the TOE, sB >>>and a subset of the implementation, to understand the security L >>>behaviour. Assurance is additionally gained through an informal model of  >>>the TOE security policy.o >>>pH >>>The analysis is supported by independent testing of the TOE security D >>>functions, evidence of developer testing based on the functional K >>>specification and high-level design, selective independent confirmation tJ >>>of the developer test results, strength of function analysis, evidence A >>>of a developer search for vulnerabilities, and an independent ML >>>vulnerability analysis demonstrating resistance to penetration attackers   >>>with a low attack potential." >>> A >>>I put the EAL4 description down because is what HP-UX, AIX andr >>>Solaris have. >>>-I >>>As a matter of interest ever wondered why the tests are run in "labs".y >>>a
 >>>Regards >>>Andrew Harrison >>>  >>   >> m  >> For another view of EAL 4 see >> .. >> http://eros.cs.jhd.edu/~shap/NT-EAL4.html   >> a >> v >a >Error >c: >     The requested item could not be loaded by the proxy. >.I >     Netscape Proxy is unable to locate the server: eros.cs.jhd.edu The  I >server does not have a DNS entry. Check the server name in the Location g >(URL) and try again.g >w; >Its certainly a different view of EAL4 though probably not  >quite what you meant. >    Sorry mistyped the URL  try   + http://eros.cs.jhu.edu/~shap/NT-EAL4.html  l      
 >> David Webba >> VMS and Unix team leader  >> CCSSt >> Middlesex University. >>   >> n >>>  >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:59:52 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>oI Subject: Re: The Register: OpenVMS among most-secure of operating systemsc0 Message-ID: <bv68up$t29$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:  > In article <bv624t$qqa$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  >>Bob Koehler wrote: >> >>>In article <bv5j9c$lhs$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:e >>>i >>>hL >>>>"EAL4 (see Table 6.5) provides assurance by an analysis of the security H >>>>functions, using a functional and complete interface specification, L >>>>guidance documentation, the high-level and low-level design of the TOE, C >>>>and a subset of the implementation, to understand the security eM >>>>behaviour. Assurance is additionally gained through an informal model of   >>>>the TOE security policy. >>>  >>>eB >>>   Saying so is far from making it so.  Witness the Windows EAL? >>>   certification.  I don't care which politicians signed it.  >>>t >> >>Take it up with NIST/NSA >>= >>What you may not have noticed (since you don't seem to knows; >>anything about EAL) that EAL has a hierachy of assurance.r >>@ >>EAL1/EAL2/EAL3/EAL4, not all assurances are the same. Remember >>the C1/C2/C3/B1/B2/B3. >>2 >>C1 was almost wide open and virtually worthless. >> >  > N > but Windows 2000 has got the same "almost worthless" EAL 4 listing which youH > are talking about. What you need is both a good Protection Profile andN > a good evaluation level. A good evaluation level would probably be EAL 5 or  > above. > ' > As I posted in a previous message seeh > + > http://eros.cs.jhu.edu/~shap/NT-EAL4.html  >  >   5 Then you may also know that Solaris has the following  EAL 4+, CAPP, RBACPP, LSPP  4 This is equivalent to the old B1 security rating and! includes network connections etc.a   Regards  Andrew Harrisonh   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:16:04 -0500 < From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>? Subject: Re: Trouble installing VMS AXP Hobbyist on a PWS 600aut9 Message-ID: <bv66cm$onlg6$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:F= >   You may well want to send your feedback directly along toe the < >   site-wide webmaster directly, as I am not at all certain that any. >   of the messages posted here would be seen. > ...n  5 The problem is actually in the documentation, it saysr4 h7100.www7 instead of h71000.ww7 so I sent a note to< openvmsdoc@hp.com to have that corrected. (But I still think& HP's web naming standard is terrible.)   -- a Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.l Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXd www.weaverconsulting.cae   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Jan 2004 15:49:37 -0000 From: OIC <oh@i.see>7 Subject: Re: Will Bird Flue impact airlines this year ?,7 Message-ID: <O76HPFJ438013.4094560185@anonymous.poster>@  + J F  M e z e i <nobody@nobody.com> trolled:P  M >Last year, airlines had to cancel many flights to/from asia due to Sars. Andi3 >many airlines blames piss poor financials on Sars.5 >FL >Right now, the Bird Flue problem seems to be getting worse. How long beforeK >airlines start to feel the effect ?  How long before airports put back the F >checks for people who have colds/fevers coming in our out of planes ? > O >Or will the public consider this a "chicken" disease and not feel they need tob >cancel their flights to asia ?i  L LOL!!!  Bird "Flue" . . . finally we learn the name of your strange illness.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:40:32 GMT * From: Steven Fisher <sdfisher@spamcop.net>7 Subject: Re: Will Bird Flue impact airlines this year ? 6 Message-ID: <0001HW.BC3BD4800003CE88F01015B0@shawnews>  , On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 7:49:37 -0800, OIC wrote9 (in message <O76HPFJ438013.4094560185@anonymous.poster>):a  N > LOL!!!  Bird "Flue" . . . finally we learn the name of your strange illness.  I Could you kindly stop spamming other groups? This is not exactly a tough a concept.   Followups set.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:07:35 GMTe From: "None" <none@nospam.org>7 Subject: Re: Will Bird Flue impact airlines this year ?HC Message-ID: <rVwRb.28740$1e.18273@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>e  B Just flue of any kind would be nice.  I'd like to see the airlinesG cancelling as much as 75% of their flights just in time for the general-K election next November.  ANYTHING to lay the blame squarely on the Shrub&Coo and their horrible policies.  K One way or another, karma is determined that Dubya is to be a ONE TERMER. .e . .just like his daddy!i  K Problem is, he has made such a huge mess, both politically and financially,lI of this country that any democrat that beats his sawed off Texas ass will G have to spend their entire term cleaning up what the lying little pricks) leaves behind, and nothing will get done!n    ! "OIC" <oh@i.see> wrote in messageb1 news:O76HPFJ438013.4094560185@anonymous.poster...t- > J F  M e z e i <nobody@nobody.com> trolled:  >eK > >Last year, airlines had to cancel many flights to/from asia due to Sars.W Ando5 > >many airlines blames piss poor financials on Sars.  > > G > >Right now, the Bird Flue problem seems to be getting worse. How longt beforeI > >airlines start to feel the effect ?  How long before airports put backv thelH > >checks for people who have colds/fevers coming in our out of planes ? > >sI > >Or will the public consider this a "chicken" disease and not feel they  need toi! > >cancel their flights to asia ?h >hE > LOL!!!  Bird "Flue" . . . finally we learn the name of your strange- illness. >- >- >  >a >    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.053 ************************