0 INFO-VAX	Sat, 31 Jan 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 61      Contents: Re: $SETUAI() Query/Problem  Re: $SETUAI() Query/Problem  Re: $SETUAI() Query/Problem E Re: 'Dictionary' no longer works after 7.3-2 and Rdb 7.1.2.2. upgrade 0 Re: Canadian Troll infestation in rec.travel.air/ Re: Cluster mystery: one-way MSCP disk serving? / Re: Cluster mystery: one-way MSCP disk serving?  Re: FTP with SSL support" Re: HTML posting (Mezei Fraud ...)P RE: Intel and Microsoft provide higher 32-bit applications         performance  P Re: Intel and Microsoft provide higher 32-bit applications  performance         : Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!3 Re: Regarding the length of Mezei's trolling career  Re: Renaissance of VAX-VMS ? Re: Renaissance of VAX-VMS ? Re: Renaissance of VAX-VMS ? Re: Renaissance of VAX-VMS ? Re: Renaissance of VAX-VMS ? Re: Renaissance of VAX-VMS ? Re: Rumours of (CPU) Wars  Re: Rumours of (CPU) Wars  Re: Rumours of (CPU) Wars ! Some Known Mezei Trolling Aliases % Re: Some Known Mezei Trolling Aliases < Re: The State of the Union:  Lies about a Dishonest JF Mezei5 Re: The State of the Union:  Lies from a Dishonest JF 5 Re: The State of the Union:  Lies from a Dishonest JF 8 Re: The State of the Union:  Lies from a Dishonest Mezei8 Re: The State of the Union: Lies about a Dishonest Mezei/ Re: The VMS Path Not Taken: Now It Can be Told! / Re: The VMS Path Not Taken: Now It Can be Told! , Re: What happend with vmspython.dyndns.org ?, Re: What happend with vmspython.dyndns.org ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:25:57 -0000 9 From: "covendotartdottalk21dotcom" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> $ Subject: Re: $SETUAI() Query/Problem3 Message-ID: <2dydnTNwm5CKSobdRVn-jw@brightview.com>   H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:m258zcrWBUyC@eisner.encompasserve.org... 5 > In article <iZidnUd-geh-54fd4p2dnA@brightview.com>, ; "covendotartdottalk21dotcom" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> writes:  > > C > > However, when I attempt to use $SETUAI() or $GETUAI, the system E > > services always seem to pick up the definition in the SYSTEM name  > > table, not the PROCESS one.  > B >    If I was writing $SETUAI or $GETUAI it almost certainly would8 >    not use process, group, or job logical name tables. > H >    IIRC these routines are supposed to access THE system authorizationJ >    file (ergo the one currently being used by LOGINOUT), not some random0 >    file that happens to be in the same format.  G Hardly a "random" file;  it just happens to be a.n.other node's SYSUAF.   G So reading between the lines of your terse response, what you're saying G is that there is no way of modifying the content of a remote node's UAF G (where that remote node is not in a cluster with the node where you are G attempting to originate the password change requests, and therefore not D sharing a cluster-common UAF), from an executable generated from 3GL< source code, using the $SETUAI() routine in combination with $HASH_PASSWORD?   F So how do other people with several hundred (lookalike) systems changeA account passwords?  Manually?  Using a different password on each  system?   F If corporate policy requires that you have different passwords on eachD system, then it is likely that you have to change the passwords on aE regular basis, and I particularly don't rate the prospect of spending A two full days a week changing passwords by manually logging on to D systems using SSH, because that's the only other way (I can think of> at the moment) that you could satisfy the requirement that theE password is not sent in a clear-text format across the network (which 0 packet sniffers and keystroke loggers can trap).   Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:53:07 -0000 9 From: "covendotartdottalk21dotcom" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> $ Subject: Re: $SETUAI() Query/Problem3 Message-ID: <pO2dnUvFieDoQIbd4p2dnA@brightview.com>   : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:owaUX4dF8GaK@eisner.encompasserve.org... 5 > In article <iZidnUd-geh-54fd4p2dnA@brightview.com>, ; "covendotartdottalk21dotcom" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> writes:  > I > > I'm writing some software that is intended to run on NODEA and change F > > passwords on NODEB, but avoiding sending the password in cleartextB > > form across the network to NODEB (i.e. NOT some kind of remote) > > submission of MC AUTHORIZE commands).  > G > > From within a program (DEC C), I can quite happily create a logical F > > name of SYSUAF with a value of NODEB::SYS$SYSTEM:SYSUAF.DAT in the9 > > process name table, in supervisor mode on NODEA with:  > C > > However, when I attempt to use $SETUAI() or $GETUAI, the system E > > services always seem to pick up the definition in the SYSTEM name  > > table, not the PROCESS one.  > C > But if that _did_ work, what gives you the slightest hint that it H > would meet hour goal of "avoiding sending the password in cleartext" ?  D Using $SETUAI in combination with $HASH_PASSWORD gives you a one-way encrypted password.   C If someone also "sniffs" the SALT and algorithm in use (because one B has to $GETUAI in the first place, to find out the user's SALT andE algorithm - one can't guarantee that the algorithm in use on NODEB is B the same as NODEA - in order to use $HASH_PASSWORD appropriately),C then arguably, "they" could use that to launch a dictionary attempt = to see if "they" could ever generate the same hashed password B (provided they had legitimate access to an OpenVMS system, and hadD programming skills available to them to make use of $HASH_PASSWORD).  > However, depending on what criteria are specified for passwordE selection, the chance of actually generating the same hashed password F before it gets changed again, may be slim (and depending on how "they"E attempt to then connect to NODEB, "they" may set off intruder alarms, 8 further limiting "their" chances of not being detected).  E Even if someone does generate the same hashed password, the fact that > it was not sent in cleartext format, still meets the obscurityB deptartment's requirement that it is not sent in cleartext format.  D It's not my fault that they're not more specific in their assessment= of vulnerabilities (which I think are a load of hocus anyway: C knee-jerk reactions to the events accidentally caused by a supplier @ who is a trusted user, are not the way to go;  they only succeedB in making systems less usable;  if they want a secure system, theyB should power it off, place it inside a safe inside a bunker in theB middle of the Siberian wilderness;  of course, it won't then offer/ the intended service, but at least it's secure)       A > What makes you think MCR AUTHORIZE uses those system services ?   F Because it would seem logical, since it gets and sets UAF information;@ having separate code that has to change each time the UAF formatB changed (i.e. if AUTHORIZE manually traverses the UAF file itself)@ would be nonsensical - why not use perfectly good system service routines that already exist?    5 > It can do wildcards and the system services cannot.   D The VMS mail command allows you to specify more than one destinationE email address using @FILENAME.EXAMPLE, but that doesn't mean that the E callable mail routines actually support it (they don't;  in VMS mail, E it's DCL which parses the parameter, and deals with it appropriately; C if you use callable mail routines, you have to manually process the D @FILENAME.EXAMPLE yourself (depending on how the parameter is passed< to your program, and posibly, which language you are using).  A Ergo, MC AUTHORIZE may manipulate wildcards and convert them into F suitable $SETUAI()/$GETUAI() calls;  just because it handles wildcards, doesn't mean it doesn't use system services.  C But then again, I don't have a copy of the source code, and I'm not < sure if the source for AUTHORIZE is even included on the CD.  > Maybe you have access to the source and can tell me different?   Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:14:08 -0000 9 From: "covendotartdottalk21dotcom" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> $ Subject: Re: $SETUAI() Query/Problem3 Message-ID: <kOKdnZFm3av-f4bdRVn-hQ@brightview.com>   > "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in message* news:ad6dnX9EqrC4eIfdRVn-hA@comcast.com...F > I seem to recall that the logicals used by SYSUAF must be defined inD > EXECUTIVE_MODE.   They need not be in the system table but must beF > /EXEC.  This applies to  SYSUAF, RIGHTSLIST, NETPROXY and NET$PROXY.  8 Unfortunately, I've tried /EXEC too, but still no cigar.  D I'm loathe to temporarily remove the defintion from the system tableF on my development system (because I'm not the only person who uses it,F and deassigning it would cause a few login problems for everyone else,> let alone the batch jobs that run at unpredictable intervals).  C However, it would at least prove whether or not $GETUAI()/$SETUAI() F only uses the system table definition, or whether or not it then falls* back to using any other logical defintion.  F The only thing I can see as a possibility would be going back to Bob'sB response(ish), in that you can specify an optional context used toG maintain an open channel to the authorisation file;  if it was possible E to hijack usage of this, and somehow get UAF to use a.n.other channel D that one manually opens to the remote UAF - but I've no idea how theB "channel" is actually opened by $GETUAI() or $SETUAI(), although I# would guess it is probably $OPEN().   E As for then setting up the FAB for indexed file access - well, that's D unchartered territory for me, filled with potential landmines if oneE doesn't get it right (related to which is the $GETUAI() documentation D warning about not using the context returned by it, as a context forD then passing to $SETUAI();  for what I'm sure is a very good reason,D even if the developers or documentation authors chose not to explain why).      Mark   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 08:40:20 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)N Subject: Re: 'Dictionary' no longer works after 7.3-2 and Rdb 7.1.2.2. upgrade4 Message-ID: <URJSb.393996$Tz1.180792@news.chello.at>   In article <00A2C86E.93F0D287@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:  >RDbers (and comp.os.vmsers) --  > . >OpenVMS Alpha (DS20E), Rdb 7.1.2.2, VMS 7.3-2 > M >I have some old but still in use and maintained Fortran/TDMS/RDO precompiler P >programs.  They get record definitions from the CDD via Dictionary statements,  >eg: > P >       dictionary 'cdd$top.user_support.database.rdb$relations.scheduled_propos
 >als/list' > N >This has been working fine.  (The creation date on the include file with thisO >statement is in 1996, so it would seem to have been working fine for a while.) 9 >The programs in question were last compiled in December.  > E >Over Christmas break, we upgraded from VMS 7.3-1 to 7.3-2, and from   >Rdb 7.1.0.5 to 7.1.2.2. >  > H >Now, when I try to compile these programs, dictionary processing fails. >  >        dictionary G >'cdd$top.user_support.database.rdb$relations.scheduled_proposals/list' R >................................................................................. >..........^1 >%FORT-E-NODNOTFND, directory or object not found N >at line number 23 in file $DISK4:[WINSTON.USER_SUPPORT]USER_SUPPORT.COMMON;57 >  >        dictionary > >'cdd$top.user_support.database.rdb$relations.scheduled_propos
 >als/list'R >................................................................................. >..........^L >%FORT-F-DICTABORT, DICTIONARY processing of CDD record description aborted.N >at line number 23 in file $DISK4:[WINSTON.USER_SUPPORT]USER_SUPPORT.COMMON;57 > J >Is anyone aware of something in this upgrade that could have broken this?  
 Sorry, no.I But I'm aware of some changes in VMS which required some compilers to get K a new version just to be able to get their system definitions working again K (and you should rebuild them). So, try to get the newest (FORTRAN) compiler E rebuild the system definitions during compiler install and try again. 8 Maybe they are related. Try also to ask for a newer CDD.   HIH   N PS: So much for a VMS maintenance only version (this is OpenVMS Alpha V8.1 ;-) --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:23:00 +0100 # From: edo <nobody@cryptorebels.net> 9 Subject: Re: Canadian Troll infestation in rec.travel.air ? Message-ID: <ace8b8aaabac68b63bd3c695e5da05b6@cryptorebels.net>   ) Robert Browne <srqace@comcast.net> wrote:    > 3 >"ivy_mike" <ivy_mike@my-deja.com> wrote in message 8 >news:13077cb5.0401310805.620eed68@posting.google.com...9 >> "Jim Anderson" <jim@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message F >news:<BmCSb.144412$6y6.2810410@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>... >> >8 >> I've got no problem with moderated groups, as long as > M >I recently returned to reading the group after an absence of approx. 2 years J >and find it not even worth the time. I scan it each day to identify postsL >from Bill Mattox  ( who may be disgusted too since I have not seen him hereK >for quite a while)and a couple of others and skip the rest. The trolls and M >the U.S. haters and just plain jerks have made it just about worthless. They J >would do usenet a favor if they would take their anti Bush, anti U.S. and7 >other nonsense to groups set up for that type of post. ? >It used to be fun and informative to read r.t.a., but no more.  >Bob  L If you'll notice, most of these foaming-at-the-mouth US-haters are Canadian,0 with a few Eurotrash like Sjoerd, AJC, Nik, etc.  N Canadian trolls are like cockroaches, when you see one there's about a millionI other ones lurking in the dark.  Unfortunately, we have the Leader of the O Canadian Trolls here, JF Mezei, and he has brought out his slave cockroaches to  help him do his dirty work.   O It's envy, mostly.  Having to live so close to the US that they can practically N smell the abundance and success yet not being able to enjoy it.  It just kills them.    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:50:37 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)8 Subject: Re: Cluster mystery: one-way MSCP disk serving?$ Message-ID: <bvftpd$693$2@online.de>  B In article <04013015541400@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org writes:  I >    Once upon a time, I got tired of the spurious SCSI every-LUN devices J > associated with my (apparently lame) Yamaha CRW4416S CD-R/RW drive, so IG > followed the hints and created a SYS$MANAGER:SYCONFIG.COM which said:   C >    So, it appears that I just need to drag that bit of code up to H > SYS$MANAGER:SYCONFIG.COM, and all should be well again, at long last. I > When I made my original SYS$MANAGER:SYCONFIG.COM, I did manage to steal 8 > the "fta0" and "mpa0" stuff, but I failed to steal the= > "@sys$startup:vms$initial-050_configure" thing, too.  Sigh.    Interesting.  I have:   G Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free   	 Trans Mnt G  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks  	 Count Cnt . $33$MKA500:   (GLADIA)  Online               0. $33$MKA501:   (GLADIA)  Online               0. $33$MKA502:   (GLADIA)  Online               0. $33$MKA503:   (GLADIA)  Online               0. $33$MKA504:   (GLADIA)  Online               0. $33$MKA505:   (GLADIA)  Online               0. $33$MKA506:   (GLADIA)  Online               0. $33$MKA507:   (GLADIA)  Online               0  E This is an EXABYTE EXB-8200.  Only DKA500 is "real".  I've had on my  B back burner for a long time the wish to get rid of these spurious F devices, without any side effects.  Let me know how your changes come  out!  $ > > * Required for volume shadowing. >  >    No plans.  < Why not?  I sleep A LOT easier since I moved to shadow sets!  9 > > * Saves typing (assuming you use single-digit values)  > F >    This _is_ a powerful argument, and it's why all my node names areG > three or four characters long, but with non-shared disks, I'd have to I > remember which box "$1" was in.  I can puzzle out "ALP$" easily enough, G > but with non-zero allocation classes, I'd need many more Post-it (tm) B > notes than I do now.  (And now I save one use of the Shift key.)  / How often do you need to type the device names?    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 08:26:45 -0600 (CST)  From: sms@antinode.org8 Subject: Re: Cluster mystery: one-way MSCP disk serving?) Message-ID: <04013108264532@antinode.org>   P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)  0 > $33$MKA500:   (GLADIA)  Online               00 > $33$MKA501:   (GLADIA)  Online               00 > $33$MKA502:   (GLADIA)  Online               00 > $33$MKA503:   (GLADIA)  Online               00 > $33$MKA504:   (GLADIA)  Online               00 > $33$MKA505:   (GLADIA)  Online               00 > $33$MKA506:   (GLADIA)  Online               00 > $33$MKA507:   (GLADIA)  Online               0 > G > This is an EXABYTE EXB-8200.  Only DKA500 is "real".  I've had on my  D > back burner for a long time the wish to get rid of these spurious H > devices, without any side effects.  Let me know how your changes come  > out!  E    They seem to be just fine.  There was a bit more fine print than I E had thought (as usual).  AUTOGEN comes through this stuff, too, and I H had been ignoring the complaints from the stolen "sysman io connect fta0@ .." commands, so now I check for the device first.  (There is noF similar complaint on the VAX from a "sysgen connect fta0 ..." when theD device already exists.)  Similarly, I had to check for the CONFIGUREF process before trying to start a new one.  (That was more fatal than aE warning.)  There may be a smarter way to do this, but the stuff below  seems to work for me.   & > > > * Required for volume shadowing. > >    No plans.> > Why not?  I sleep A LOT easier since I moved to shadow sets!  H    Antinode.org is not so critical that I'd lose a lot of sleep if I hadG to pop in a cold spare disk and restore from last-night's backup.  (The D recent exercise in creating a system disk for ALP2 from one of thoseD dangerous live backups of ALP was reassuring.  A few warnings, a fewH unimportant files in [SYSLOST], ...)  It has been a long time since I've> had a disk fail.  (I buy a new (cheap-junk) disk for every new (five-year-old) computer.)  ; > > > * Saves typing (assuming you use single-digit values)   1 > How often do you need to type the device names?   (    Every keystroke counts, I always say.  5    Here's the useful part of my current SYCONFIG.COM:    [...]  $!  $	STARTUP$AUTOCONFIGURE_ALL == 0 $!( $ if (.not. f$getdvi( "fta0", "EXISTS")) $ then $    mcr sysman 7       io connect fta0 /noadapter /driver = sys$ftdriver  $ endif  $!( $ if (.not. f$getdvi( "mpa0", "EXISTS")) $ then $    mcr sysman 9       io connect mpa0 /noadapter /driver = sys$pipedriver  $ endif  $! $ mcr sysman&    io autoconfigure /exclude = (dka5*)&    io autoconfigure /select = (dka500)    exit  $!C $!      SYS$STARTUP:VMS$DEVICE_STARTUP.COM also skips code like the A $!      following, which starts the CONFIGURE process, needed for B $!      detecting [T]MSCP-served devices on other cluster members. $!& $ if (.not. f$getsyi( "NOAUTOCONFIG")) $ then $!A $! Check for running CONFIGURE process.  Start one, if not found. ; $! (Trust SYSTEM not to run a different CONFIGURE process.)  $!
 $    ctx = "" A $    x = f$context( "PROCESS", ctx, "PRCNAM", "CONFIGURE", "EQL") @ $    x = f$context( "PROCESS", ctx, "USERNAME", "SYSTEM", "EQL") $    pid = f$pid( ctx) $    if (pid .eqs. "")	 $    then 3 $       @ sys$startup:vms$initial-050_configure.com 
 $    endif $ endif  $!  F    The VAXstation 3100 model 38 edition (I am reminded) was changed toA substitute the GKDRIVER for the usual DKDRIVER.  (And on the VAX, / VMS$INITIAL-050_CONFIGURE.COM has an argument.)    [...]  $!  $	STARTUP$AUTOCONFIGURE_ALL == 0 $! $ set verify $ mcr sysgen2     connect fta0 /noadapter /drivername = ftdriver4     connect mpa0 /noadapter /drivername = pipedriver;     ! Connect the CD-R/RW drive to the generic SCSI driver. 0     connect gka500 /noadapter /driver = gkdriver'     ! Auto-configure everything (else). )     ! autoconfigure all /exclude = dka500 $     autoconfigure all /exclude = dka     exit $ set noverify $! $!C $!      SYS$STARTUP:VMS$DEVICE_STARTUP.COM also skips code like the A $!      following, which starts the CONFIGURE process, needed for B $!      detecting [T]MSCP-served devices on other cluster members. $!& $ if (.not. f$getsyi( "NOAUTOCONFIG")) $ then $!A $! Check for running CONFIGURE process.  Start one, if not found. ; $! (Trust SYSTEM not to run a different CONFIGURE process.)  $!
 $    ctx = "" A $    x = f$context( "PROCESS", ctx, "PRCNAM", "CONFIGURE", "EQL") @ $    x = f$context( "PROCESS", ctx, "USERNAME", "SYSTEM", "EQL") $    pid = f$pid( ctx) $    if (pid .eqs. "")	 $    then 7 $       @ sys$startup:vms$initial-050_configure.com YES 
 $    endif $ endif  $!   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Jan 2004 18:34:04 GMT& From: Frank da Cruz <fdc@columbia.edu>! Subject: Re: FTP with SSL support 7 Message-ID: <slrnc1nt8s.fr3.fdc@sesame.cc.columbia.edu>   H In article <200401301545.24669.kpederson@ewu.edu>, Kaleb Pederson wrote:6 : On Friday 30 January 2004 02:57 pm, Dirk Munk wrote:L :> You can have a look at SFTP in the SSH package of TCP/IP V5.4 . It is not :> perfect, but it works.  : M : I'm working with a client that doesn't have SFTP support on their end, and  ? : hence need a FTP client with SSL support, if at all possible.  : B C-Kermit 8.0 is a scriptable FTP client that includes SSL support:  /   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ftpclient.html   J Unfortunately it only works in Unix (Linux, Solaris, etc); it still needs I to the Kermit FTP client still needs to be ported to VMS.  Anybody who is / interested in doing this should send me e-mail.   K Note: C-Kermit 8.0 itself (exclusive of the FTP module) *is* ported to VMS, 4 as have all previous C-Kermit releases back to 1985.   - Frank <fdc@columbia.edu>   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:00:49 +0100 # From: edo <nobody@cryptorebels.net> + Subject: Re: HTML posting (Mezei Fraud ...) ? Message-ID: <27ee1916863429f860ecfdeb8882f20d@cryptorebels.net>   % JF Mezei <nobody@nobody.com> trolled:    >CCIE8122 wrote:I >> And what I know from years of protocol analysis is that (unless it has I >> objects in it) HTML is just text with tags, so who really gives a damn . >> whether it is plain text or html formatted? >  > G >Are you aware that there are many news server who automatically filter G >non-text messages from newsgroups which are not in a binary hiearchy ?   1 Are you aware how hypocritical your preaching is?   I Too bad none of those news servers were able to automatically filter your  thousands of troll posts.                     ------   J nobody.com is a registered domain.  Report Mezei's theft and abuse of this% domain to its owner  <tdl@canada.com>    Domain Name: NOBODY.COM   * Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:% Southport Technologies tdl@canada.com  314 Queen Street South	 Suite 158  Bolton, Ontario L7E 4Z9  CA 905-880-0289 fax: 905-880-3061   Record expires on 24-Aug-2004. Record created on 25-Aug-1995.   Also report him to:    abuse@sympatico.ca abuse@bellglobal.com abuse@istop.com    Jean-Francois Mezei  86 Harwood Gate  Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3  (514) 695-8259   A DECADE OF USENET TROLLING    jfmezei@istop.com  jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com  jfmezei@videotron.ca jfmezei@vl.videotron.ca  nospam.jfmezei@videotron.ca  "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam] nobody <nobody@nobody.com>) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org> & Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>  Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> " Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>$ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com> ' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com> " Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org> ' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org> ( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org> ' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org> % Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>  Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org> ! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> # Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>   Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>  Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org> $ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org> ! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>   Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org> % Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org> $ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com> & Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> % Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org> & Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org> ' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org> ( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil> ' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org> % Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> $ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum> ( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org> " Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org> & Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> ) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org> ' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> " Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org> * Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org> * Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>  Q <queue@continuum.net>  Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 05:25:35 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> Y Subject: RE: Intel and Microsoft provide higher 32-bit applications         performance   9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIGEPHCLAA.tom@kednos.com>      -----Original Message-----1   From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net] )   Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 10:11 PM    To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com E   Subject: Re: Intel and Microsoft provide higher 32-bit applications    performance on Itanium      9   "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message $   news:401ACDA2.9BD6FEE@istop.com...L   > >   applications will be carried out in software. At run time, the IA-32K   > >   Execution Layer software translates the IA-32 application code into @   > >   native Itanium architecture code and allows it to run as   native code.   > C   > Considering that half the IA64 architecture resides in the EPIC    compilers,   isA   > it fair to state that any code compiled on and for 8086 would 
   not be able    takeA   > advantage of any of the fancy performance stuff of IA64 since 
   there would    be1   > no explicit parralelism built into the code ?   L   Actually, a software mechanism (akin to FX!32) *can* probably mung what it?   interprets from the x86 binary code to take more advantage of    EPIC features C   (such as they are) than the current hardware emulation can.  That    may be one.   of the reasons it's faster, for that matter.  B   IIRC FX!32 had a profiling-like facility which could massage the
   munged code K   based on execution characteristics.  Now, I think that I vaguely remember J   that the new Itanic software emulator doesn't produce a permanent nativeK   binary (to keep with the x86 binary), but I also seem to remember that it K   *may* still improve the native binary as it executes.  Oh, hell - someone =   who actually knows something about all this would be a much    better source of*   information than I am:  anyone?  Anyone?  K Actually, FX!32 cosisted of two parts, the emulator and the optimizer.  The L latter actually symthesized an acyclic graph of the program and subsequentlyL ran a flow analysis, which could be scheduled to run successively to produceJ better native alpha code.  Of course, you really can't buils a symbol treeL brom this  to do, e.g., liftime analysis but it was still pretty impressive.     - bill         --- (   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B   Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004   --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.566 / Virus Database: 357 - Release Date: 1/22/2004   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2004 01:03:15 -0800' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) Y Subject: Re: Intel and Microsoft provide higher 32-bit applications  performance          = Message-ID: <734da31c.0401310103.62888f43@posting.google.com>   [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<401B16E2.436D132A@istop.com>...  > Larry Kilgallen wrote:E > > I had presumed that Keith's comment was intended to combat recent E > > claims in this newsgroup that Microsoft would not support Itanium E > > and thus VMS was doomed because Itanium chip volume would be low.  > @ > The provision of some form of software emulator says 2 things: > B > 1-The hardware emulator that was to e part of IA64 is a failure.  D That part was not a failure, it was not designed to be faster and it> was not said that it would be fast either. The failure was the strategy...   P > 2-You're going to need the emulator because not enough software will be ported > native to IA64.  > N > It also depends on how Microsoft implements the emulator in Windows. Will itL > be like VEST, or will it be like Apple did it in its migration from 68k toI > PowerPc ? (totally transparent to user, and granularity down to the VMS N > equivalent of shareable images (you could have a native main program with an) > old 68k shareable image or vice versa).   F It is totally totally transparent to the user. They disable the use ofF the hardware emulator and the only difference the user see is that x86 programs are much faster.    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2004 00:30:40 -0800' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! < Message-ID: <734da31c.0401310030.821086e@posting.google.com>   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bve23o$r90$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > > I > >>>This has been known for years, and is not a new thing for most of us I > >>>(and inside Intel) that Intel will make a x86-64 chip in the future.  > >>A > >>It has been rumoured for years and Intel up to now has denied  > >>every rumour.   @ Yes, sometimes companies don't announce anything until they haveF something ready, sometimes they do. Intel deny every rumour, no matter@ what. In this case they probably don't want AMD to gain success.  D > >>It has been suggested that Intel wanted to give Itanium a chance@ > >>to deliver with Yamhill as their back-stop if it didn't. The> > >>announcment that they will demonstrate 64 bit support this= > >>year suggests that Intel are now getting to a point where 0 > >>cutting their losses may be the best option. > >  > > I > > I have since 2000 thought that Intel will some day will make a x86-64 F > > CPU. This must also have been in the heads of at least part of the > > people in Intel and HP.a > > J > > Intel had desktop/mainstream plans for IA64 in the beginning, but that > > changed in 1999-2001.  > E > Well of course. Doing x86-64 would be relatively easy for Intel andi@ > as a backup strategy to guard against Itanium failure it makes > sense.  $ I don't see it as a backup strategy.  D > But you would always deny that the strategy was in place and beingB > excuted until it became obvious that your chosen route (Itanium)
 > had failed.   C The route was changed in year 2000, it was a failure then, not now.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:00:50 +0100 # From: edo <nobody@cryptorebels.net>a< Subject: Re: Regarding the length of Mezei's trolling career? Message-ID: <ed47b254c91e71d8f097be514baea85d@cryptorebels.net>)  % JF Mezei <nobody@nobody.com> trolled:   O >You need to consider how programs deal with text windows: the program is given   . <snip rest of hypocritical preaching by Mezei>  O No.  YOU need to consider how your decade-long troll-a-thon and kook-a-thon hase destroyed rec.travel.air.L                      ------e  J nobody.com is a registered domain.  Report Mezei's theft and abuse of this% domain to its owner  <tdl@canada.com>    Domain Name: NOBODY.COMb  * Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:% Southport Technologies tdl@canada.como 314 Queen Street South	 Suite 158- Bolton, Ontario L7E 4Z9- CA 905-880-0289 fax: 905-880-3061   Record expires on 24-Aug-2004. Record created on 25-Aug-1995.   Also report him to:1   abuse@sympatico.ca abuse@bellglobal.com abuse@istop.comN   Jean-Francois Mezeii 86 Harwood GateK Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3o (514) 695-8259   A DECADE OF USENET TROLLINGm   jfmezei@istop.comc jfmezei.spamnot@istop.comt jfmezei@videotron.ca jfmezei@vl.videotron.ca  nospam.jfmezei@videotron.ca< "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam] nobody <nobody@nobody.com>) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>e& Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>  Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org>n" Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>$ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>i' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com> " Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>t' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org>d( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>w' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org>a% Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>n Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>n! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org>d# Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>n  Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>  Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>?$ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>e! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>e  Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>p% Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>e$ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>b& Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org>d% Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>o& Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>c' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>7( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>e' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org>.% Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org>A$ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>d( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org> " Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>m& Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>q) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org> ' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>S" Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org>y* Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org>s* Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>  Q <queue@continuum.net>" Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:13:26 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> % Subject: Re: Renaissance of VAX-VMS ?e' Message-ID: <401B5596.3030406@MMaz.com>a   Didier Morandi wrote:    > Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: >h >> Didier Morandi wrote: >>F >>> Come to the VAXUS Symposium in Paris in June and you'll know more. >>>eE >> Non-sense!  HP has made the future of VMS on VAX rather clear, so VF >> your cat-and-mouse game to imply that there is more to know is not H >> appropriate and you should not be encouraging the spending of travel  >> funds for nothing.e >a > G > I'm sorry, Barry, but I cannot fully react to your remarks in public.a >n > I can just say that: >gG > I do not play "cat and mouse", I'm a professional with a fame, and I uG > also have Electricite de France (EDF) here who control their nuclear   > reactors with VAX/VMS.  F You elude to the fact that if one attends your Paris conference, that F they will learn something new, something different, something that is = contrary to HP ramping down VMS development on VAX.  That is eI cat-and-mouse as you know that HP is not going to invest major resources r back into VAX!   >w@ > The VAX/VMS obsolescence issue *is* a very serious issue. The H > migration of thousand of lines of code from VAX/VMS to Itanium is not H > a game at all. HP has to answer the questions that a LOT of CEOs will E > ask during that meeting (if I succeed to alert the Press, which is o" > unfortunately not yet the case).  F There is no doubt that it is serious, but if the CEO's, CIO, CTO's in I France are just now learning that VAX is obsolete, then they have either  H been sorely misinformed, or ignorant, or incompetent because the notice E of the End-of-Line was posted back in 1999 with final orders for VAX  F systems ending September 30, 2000 - almost than 3.5 years ago.  Check F out the URL http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/vax/vax_now.html if  you have any doubts about that.a  I As for thousands of lines of code, if that is all they must worry about, e that is trivial.   >iF > I even considered to send a letter to my Government to explain that I > most of the French mission critical IT systems are running on VAX/VMS, lH > and these users have no other future than migrating to Itanium, which I > is an issue that HP France does not adress yet. HP France answer to my LH > Customers is today "don't worry, Mister Customer, we will take you to  > VMS i64".   G You are being completely unreasonable if you really think that you can  H go to 'your government' and expect that you can compel them to force HP # to restart R&D for VMS for the VAX.'  I > They will "take" 160 tools machines running DEC DNC-11 on VAX since 20  0 > years to i64? How will they do that? Nonsense.  I I plead ignorance here, I've never heard of DEC DNC-11 but your sentence sF doesn't make grammatical sense, so I do not know if you are trying to G say that it will take 20 years to port to IA64, or that people running dG DNC-11 have been running it for 20 years, or that they are choosing to sB run DNC-11 on VAX for another 20 years?  Any way you slice it, to F presume that HP can or will continue to develope VMS for the VAX is a  fantasy.   >.H > I have another future for these Customers. Actually Robert Boers has, H > with his CHARON-VAX serie of products. As you know, VAX/VMS users are G > happy users. When you talk to them about migration, they smile. Here n > is another problem.   C This appears to be your compelling reason for most of what you are dI doing, marketing!  Marketing of your flavor of Charon with the cute name h
 of FutureVAX.h  D Yes, Robert Boers and SRI have a remarkable product and since I'm a I production user of Charon-VAX, I can attest first hand about the quality  F of the product.  Never the less, no one is deluded to believe that HP H will restart R&D for the VAX just because of Charon-VAX either, so what  is your point?   > H > When the EDF CEO, or the SNECMA one, or the Airbus one, or the France H > Telecom one or or or... will learn that they do have systems in their D > labs which are obsolete since more than ten years, with no future I > other than "migrating" to Itanium, I bet that there will be s** in the t > fan. e  F Again, those CIO/CTO's weren't doing their job if they didn't see the H death of VAX coming, heck, Alpha long replaced the VAX as the migration G path, and not IA64 to replace the Alpha (though I will agree that IHMO x# has the potential of being a mess).r  F > I do hope that HP will show up at the VAXUS Symposium with answers, * > because there will be lots of questions.  E You're hoping for something here, which returns us full circle to my aI original comment being, that if you have facts and details, you wouldn't rF need to hope that HP would come to concede or discuss new revelations ? related to the future of VMS on VAX...  Bottom line, if HP had  F intentions to bring VMS back into parity with Alpha and perhaps IA64, 2 they would have no reason to keep this a secret...   Regards,   Barry Treahy   -- u  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        s   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:55:30 +0100v" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>% Subject: Re: Renaissance of VAX-VMS ?p3 Message-ID: <401b6e22$0$3261$626a54ce@news.free.fr>a   Tom Linden wrote:s > Don't forget EADS   H When I say Airbus, I mean EADS. I can also add the French Army and many 5 "sensitive" others, but on these I cannot say a word.o  K I do know that you have the same issue in the States, for example. From my oQ letters on migration (http://www.didiermorandi.com/index_us.htm) I got some mail dM from somewhere under a very strong NDA. May I suggest to HP to address these  N Customers and prepare for them a serious future, other than telling them that  they will "migrate to i64" ?   D. --  2 VAXUS - Your new helpful friend in the DEC Family!2 EHQ: 19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France/       Phone: +336 7983 6418 Fax: +335 6154 1928.$                 http://www.vaxus.org   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:10:55 +0100i" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>% Subject: Re: Renaissance of VAX-VMS ?c3 Message-ID: <401b71ba$0$3273$626a54ce@news.free.fr>n   Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote:   couic. (de minimis non curat Praetor)  G > You're hoping for something here, which returns us full circle to my OK > original comment being, that if you have facts and details, you wouldn't  H > need to hope that HP would come to concede or discuss new revelations ) > related to the future of VMS on VAX... t  K You did not get me. What I'm saying is that HP France today has no serious iL answer to the VAX/VMS obsolescence issue. The Symposium is aimed at getting L answers from HP. All heavy VAX/VMS users I personally met told me that HP's P position is "we will help you to migrate to i64". But how??? They do not have a  professional behaviour.    Why?  N 1. There is nearly noone from DEC still working at HP France today, but a few = old timmers with whom I used to work 20 years ago in the TSC.   G 2. HP Corp suggests for example to replace Allen Bradley's Interchange  K Manufacturing Software with Basestar. Good. How will the Customer do that? ,O Replace is PRO-DUC-TION software with another one. By magic? No answer from HP 01 (and no answer so far from Rockwell either, btw).j  M 3. HP France does not communicate on VMS (on OpenVMS i64 neither, actually). 6M There is a black hole, and our intention with VAXUS is to shake the coconuts oP tree, Barry, not to sell FutureVAX. And if by chance the Field understands that P the FutureVAX may be the good solution (I personally do not see others), that's Q fine to me as I'm a reseller and I have probably like you a wife, children and a n house.   D.  0 PS: Sorry for my bad grammatical English, Barry.   --  2 VAXUS - Your new helpful friend in the DEC Family!2 EHQ: 19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France/       Phone: +336 7983 6418 Fax: +335 6154 1928s$                 http://www.vaxus.org   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 05:11:13 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>% Subject: Re: Renaissance of VAX-VMS ? ) Message-ID: <401B7EF3.FA91E4E2@istop.com>w   Didier Morandi wrote: R > fine to me as I'm a reseller and I have probably like you a wife, children and a > house.  M OK, I can understand one not being sure about how many children he really hasb :-) :-) :-)   N But unless you have a very large harem, the word "probably" shouldn't apply to whether you have a wife or not..  L Now, if you are not sure about having a house or not, you should hire a goodH notary who should be able to dig up all the paperwork to confirm to you.   :-) :-) :-) ;-) ;-)e    N Seriously, if you want to get HP France's attention, when you need to do is toM get your members to reveal to you how much they spend on HP gear/services per M year. You add up that information and then go to HP France and tell them thatIL X million euros of business comes from VAX-VMS and that those customers needN to be handled properly otherwise they will seek non-HP solutions because rightA now they are unhappy with the way HP France is dealing with them.S  F The goal of making profits (or meeting analyst expectations) overridesN strategic goals to be good buddies with Intel or Microsoft. So when push comesK to shove and Carly needs to meet some profit targets, she will be forced toeJ put aside her devotion to Bill gates or Andy Grove to preserve the profitsC generated by the necessary evils of her company (VMS for instance).h  I You need to convince the wintel drones at HP that omitting VMS from theirnG marketing, plans, documentation will result in loss of the very profits$8 necessary to subsidize their strategic wintel operation.    K Palmer understood this near the very end.  At first, he blamed anything forfN the problems. But after years of weekly reorgs, he was forced to admit that itN was his active put down of VMS that  had caused Digital's downfall. But it wasM too late when he realised it and even though he may have stopped the "migrate ( from VMS" ads, the damage had been done.  J Compaq not only didn't learn from this, but Curly went one step further by. prematurely murdering Alpha. Compaq went down.  N It isn't VMS that jinxes its onwers. It is the owners who invest mega money toH buy a product, and then cannabalise it instead of making that investment' generate the profits to pay for itself.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:10:22 -0700y+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>e% Subject: Re: Renaissance of VAX-VMS ?o' Message-ID: <401BE17E.4070404@MMaz.com>r   Didier Morandi wrote:    > Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: >.H >> You're hoping for something here, which returns us full circle to my C >> original comment being, that if you have facts and details, you sF >> wouldn't need to hope that HP would come to concede or discuss new 6 >> revelations related to the future of VMS on VAX...  >d >sE > You did not get me. What I'm saying is that HP France today has no AE > serious answer to the VAX/VMS obsolescence issue. The Symposium is m$ > aimed at getting answers from HP.   F Perhaps I'm missing something, I'll give you that much, but I am very F skeptical that HP France will offer a long term VAX/VMS solution that I differs from the rest of the world - Yes, I understand that VAX is still RE prevalent in Europe, but Compaq and HP are/were PC companies who I'm 4I convinced haven't a clue about mid-range systems and the fact that HP is -C working on the second VMS port since VAX, I really believe you are  E hoping and expecting too much from a platform that was signed off as 2E dead in 1999;  That death notice was worldwide, not just the US with  ' last ordering ending in September 2000.   I > All heavy VAX/VMS users I personally met told me that HP's position is 3F > "we will help you to migrate to i64". But how??? They do not have a  > professional behaviour.   H I can't speak for that other than to fall back on my prior comment that G HP is clueless - My attempts this past winter to repurchase new source iG listings for VAX/VMS, it took weeks to find someone that had a clue as !! to what I was even talking about.T   >w > Why? >rF > 1. There is nearly noone from DEC still working at HP France today, I > but a few old timmers with whom I used to work 20 years ago in the TSC.m  F CQ Palmer killed Digital in 1998, so unless they moved to Compaq, and K then HP, and could tow the Wintel line, this does not catch me by surprise.n   > I > 2. HP Corp suggests for example to replace Allen Bradley's Interchange sG > Manufacturing Software with Basestar. Good. How will the Customer do .H > that? Replace is PRO-DUC-TION software with another one. By magic? No B > answer from HP (and no answer so far from Rockwell either, btw).  H This really isn't a issue for HP but rather the CNC integrator or VAR.  G I could equally complain about how the old 1980's Calma Clam Shell CAD pG stations were left stranded and now HP must migrate those but it isn't eI their responsibility that someone might have ignored the fact that other  E solutions came to market, or that the hardware it was running on was  7 obsolete and EOL'd  - This is up to the integrator/VAR.'  G Again, the death of VAX is not new and yes, Charon-VAX can be a viable eF solutions in many ways, but does that require the future and on-going H development of VMS for Charon to be successful?  I think not.  Look how > many sites parked at VMS 5.5-2 and ran there for years before G decommissioning.  I suspect that VMS 7.2 or 7.3 will once again become =E one of those parking versions for VAX/VMS, though I have no facts or aI insider details,  but for VAX those versions are stable considering that  G VMS will not have functional parity with Alpha or IA64, nor will there  I any any more future VAX hardware enhancements since they stopped selling y it almost four years ago...c   >=D > 3. HP France does not communicate on VMS (on OpenVMS i64 neither, G > actually). There is a black hole, and our intention with VAXUS is to oC > shake the coconuts tree, Barry, not to sell FutureVAX. And if by eB > chance the Field understands that the FutureVAX may be the good H > solution (I personally do not see others), that's fine to me as I'm a E > reseller and I have probably like you a wife, children and a house.f  I News flash, HP US does not communicate/advertise VMS ether, this isn't a ,5 bias against France :-) they just do not market VMS. t   BarryS   >    >E2 > PS: Sorry for my bad grammatical English, Barry. >i0 No apology needed, I can't even speak French :-)   -- n  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        .   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:03:23 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>% Subject: Re: Renaissance of VAX-VMS ?v3 Message-ID: <401bee86$0$3264$626a54ce@news.free.fr>v   JF Mezei wrote:h   > Didier Morandi wrote:r > 2 >> I have probably like you a wife, children and a >>house. >  > O > OK, I can understand one not being sure about how many children he really has 
 > :-) :-) :-)  > P > But unless you have a very large harem, the word "probably" shouldn't apply to! > whether you have a wife or not.  > N > Now, if you are not sure about having a house or not, you should hire a goodJ > notary who should be able to dig up all the paperwork to confirm to you.  K "I have, probably like you do, a wife, children and a house and a Worldwidet                             **= RavenShield (demo) tournament which starts in a few hours..."x   :-)    D.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2004 00:42:52 -0800' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson)S" Subject: Re: Rumours of (CPU) Wars= Message-ID: <734da31c.0401310042.5e64c782@posting.google.com>m   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bve1l0$r29$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  > > G > > I still don't think it make much sense for IBM to make many ItaniumnG > > boxes. Itanium is not compatible with IBM's successfull Xeon boxes,eH > > and I believe IBM currently want to push Power instead of Itanium asF > > much as possible. Besides, they might make a larger Itanium serverH > > anyway after all, I haven't seen that they have rejected anything, I6 > > have seen that they will make a large Xeon server. >  > A > The xSeries division is a separate BU to the zSeries or pSeries ? > IBM tend to give their BU's plenty of leway in terms of salesp> > technology etc as anyone who has dealt with IBM software for > example will confirm.n > < > If the xSeries BU had thought that the only way they could< > be competitive in the 2005+ timeframe would be through the: > adoption of Itanium then I have no doubt that they would! > have gone ahead and adopted it.o  B Yes, that is what I have been saying. I still don't think it wouldE make sense for IBM to make a large Itanium server in 2005. They would-F sell a lot more Xeon servers than Itanium servers and the xSeries want volume.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 04:22:58 -0500f* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>" Subject: Re: Rumours of (CPU) Wars) Message-ID: <401B73A8.BA211CD7@istop.com>    Bill Todd wrote:H > The above system is faster than IBM's.  It is also more expensive, not& > cheaper:  $6,825,055 vs. $6,574,014.  L The price difference is probably considered pocket change, especially if theV more expensive vendor is more flexible in the pricing or includes a few more freebies.  E > > HP    HP Integrity Superdome                   786,646  6.49 US $h > N > The above system is indeed both faster and cheaper than IBM's.  It also runsL > Windows and SQL Server, and I explicitly pointed that out as the exception  M Except for cases where a customer accepts an IA64/windows machine at very low<K cost in exchange for agreeing to be a poster boy in HP/Intel's marketing, IiN doubt very much that Windows will have much business done on IA64 boxes.  WhenJ you combine lack of native software, the uncertain future of IA64, and theM certain future of 8086, it makes sense for Windows customers to stick to 8086  architecture for windows.   M Consider how Microsoft had no problems making NT available on many platforms, L but as soon as it became apparent that the platform wouldn't pan out, MS hadF no problems arranging for some disagreement to result in support for a platform to be widthdrawn.  M Windows on IA64 is a very risky proporition in my opinion. I think that HP-UX>K or even VMS on IA64 is less risky because you know that HP will continue tosM release versions on that platform for some time after theplatform is declaredoK dead.  Microsoft stoppied releasing NT on Mips, Power and Alpha long beforea  any of those were declared dead.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 04:30:19 -0500t* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>" Subject: Re: Rumours of (CPU) Wars2 Message-ID: <P_mdnYo9pK0I6Ibd4p2dnA@metrocast.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messaget# news:401B73A8.BA211CD7@istop.com...n > Bill Todd wrote:J > > The above system is faster than IBM's.  It is also more expensive, not( > > cheaper:  $6,825,055 vs. $6,574,014. >h; > The price difference is probably considered pocket changet  B Don't you be an idiot too, JF:  the point was that Rob said it wasI *cheaper*, and he was wrong - whether by a penny or by a megabuck doesn'tn matter.t   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:50:23 +0100d# From: edo <nobody@cryptorebels.net>a* Subject: Some Known Mezei Trolling Aliases? Message-ID: <22b45fc8c87d92cf6be8087c614a0b2d@cryptorebels.net>o  - Just a few of Mezei's known trolling aliases.t  I Lately he favors "nobody <nobody@nobody.com".  nobody.com is a registered J domain, therefore it constitutes domain theft.  More on that in a separate article.   Jean-Francois Mezeim 86 Harwood Gaten Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3n (514) 695-8259   jfmezei@istop.comn jfmezei.spamnot@istop.come jfmezei@videotron.ca jfmezei@vl.videotron.ca< nospam.jfmezei@videotron.cae "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam] nobody <nobody@nobody.com>) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>i& Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>y Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org>a" Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>$ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>r' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com>t" Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>m' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org>>( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>.' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org>g% Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>  Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>s! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org>o# Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>i  Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>e Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>o$ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org><! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>   Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org><% Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>n$ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>e& Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> % Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org> & Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>a' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>M( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>i' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org>.% Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org>r$ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>i( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>h" Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>f& Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>e) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>a' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> " Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org>y* Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org> * Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>p Q <queue@continuum.net>i Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:27:19 GMTe. From: "Deep" <deep_mehtaHATESSPAM@hotmail.com>. Subject: Re: Some Known Mezei Trolling AliasesI Message-ID: <HHQSb.45649$ef.7534@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>y  8 You're an idiot. How does that constitute domain theft??  K You are use "edo" <nobody@cryptorebels.net>. Other people use @hotmail.com.dJ Does that mean they are all stealing that domain?? Flawed logic as is your mind...a  E Leave your problems with Mezei in the forum where you developed thosecB problems!! We are sick of seing this GARBAGE. When will it stop!!!   Deep  0 "edo" <nobody@cryptorebels.net> wrote in message9 news:22b45fc8c87d92cf6be8087c614a0b2d@cryptorebels.net...t/ > Just a few of Mezei's known trolling aliases.i >mK > Lately he favors "nobody <nobody@nobody.com".  nobody.com is a registeredgL > domain, therefore it constitutes domain theft.  More on that in a separate
 > article. >g > Jean-Francois MezeiV > 86 Harwood Gate  > Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3t > (514) 695-8259 >. > jfmezei@istop.comV > jfmezei.spamnot@istop.comD > jfmezei@videotron.ca > jfmezei@vl.videotron.ca  > nospam.jfmezei@videotron.ca0  > "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam] > nobody <nobody@nobody.com>+ > Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>n( > Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>& > Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>' > Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>. > Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>' > Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org>g$ > Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>& > Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>/ > Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>f) > Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com>V$ > Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> > Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>r) > Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org>a* > Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>( > Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org>! > Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>a) > Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org> ' > Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>i > Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>-# > Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org>a% > Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org> " > Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>& > Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>( > Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>& > Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>, > Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org>  > Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org># > Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>h! > Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>t& > Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org># > Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org> # > Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>e" > Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>& > Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org>  > Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>' > Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>-' > Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>8& > Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> > Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>e( > Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>* > Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>' > Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> ' > Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>n( > Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>, > Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>( > Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>) > Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>I) > Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org> * > Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>. > Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>0 > Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> > Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>e) > Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org> ' > Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org>i& > Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>$ > Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>( > Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org>% > Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>e* > Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>' > Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>p$ > Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>' > Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>u( > Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>) > Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> + > Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org> ) > Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>a$ > Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>* > Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>. > George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>- > Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org>l, > Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>* > Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>) > Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org> , > Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org>! > T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>t > Q <queue@continuum.net>a > Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>, > Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>+ > John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>y   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:30:15 +0100-# From: edo <nobody@cryptorebels.net>0E Subject: Re: The State of the Union:  Lies about a Dishonest JF Mezeil? Message-ID: <834ec8fcdfd61fcbe11c70cfb915a8ab@cryptorebels.net>9  % JF Mezei <nobody@nobody.com> trolled:z   >Dave Smith wrote:O >> I give Bush credit for recognizing that he has enough stupid supporters thatr& >> he can lie to and get away with it. >pM >Well see by Nov 3rd how well Karl Rove had planned the polictical aspects ofoL >the invasion of Iraq. He knew that the evidence was false and he would haveN >some plan on how to control the release to the media of the evidence that the* >USA/UK knew the intelligence wasn't good. >aM >Last year, Bush claimed there were tons of sarin gas in Iraq. In this year'seL >state of union, Bush said that there were WMDs. Yesterday, he admitted thatO >perhaps there were none. And if the us media/public become too hostile towards M >the Bush regime, then the Bush regime will come out with some fantastic newsb6 >(such as producing Ossama, or finding (planted) WMDs. >iJ >I suspect that Kay's resignation may have had to do with Kay's refusal to2 >certify planted WMDs as having come from Hussein. >@N >Of course, the idiot democrats can't attack Bush full blast because the idiotL >democrats supported the illegal invasion of Iraq.  Both will probably agreeO >that they were lied to by the CIA and have some poor chaps at the CIA bear theiM >brunt of the blame, instead of admitting that they knew all along that therenO >was no evidence and that this was just a big power trip to prove the USA stilla. >had some raw muscle (with very little brain). >>M >For the sake of both the USA and UK in the long term, it would be far betternN >for their respective leaders to admit that they lied and deceived, instead ofI >permanently tainting their intelligence service to save their own butts..   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:40:16 +0100g# From: edo <nobody@cryptorebels.net>y> Subject: Re: The State of the Union:  Lies from a Dishonest JF? Message-ID: <d32fc2ba866ce9c3f7b5f45037728cb7@cryptorebels.net>a  % JF Mezei <nobody@nobody.com> trolled:u   >Go Fig wrote:: >> Hmmm, how does the U.S. POTUS order UN inspectors out ?L > In the case of 2003, Bush made a TV address giving all westerners 48 or 72O > hours to leave Iraq because hostilities would begin by then. Hostilities wereo. > timed to begin during prime time in the USA.  P In the case of 1998, the USA warned of a few missile attacks, forcing inspectorsE to leave, and then no steps were taken to get the inspectors back in.o  O It was a big mistake for Clinton to widthdraw the inspectors. For one thing, itoN was true that they were in fact a large source of intelligence feeding back toL the USA. (One european analyst pegged it at about 95% of intelligence coming* from UN inspectors, 5% from actual spies).  P In fact, the Bush regime didn't get motivated to attack because of evidence, butO rather because of lack of evidence/intelligence. It is as if Hussein had turnedpN out the lights and the USA was blind to what was happening. So the USA startedJ to imagine worse case scenarios and built up a case based on factual stuffM dating back to the 1980s. (a bit like a kid gets scared when you turn off thetC lights and imagines there is a big monster behind his closet door).e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:50:22 +0100.# From: edo <nobody@cryptorebels.net>a> Subject: Re: The State of the Union:  Lies from a Dishonest JF? Message-ID: <b8c0e31ff6da590ed5071b16001bead1@cryptorebels.net>n  % JF Mezei <nobody@nobody.com> trolled:s   >Go Fig wrote:: >> Hmmm, how does the U.S. POTUS order UN inspectors out ? >mK >In the case of 2003, Bush made a TV address giving all westerners 48 or 72oN >hours to leave Iraq because hostilities would begin by then. Hostilities were- >timed to begin during prime time in the USA.  >rF >In the case of 1998, the USA warned of a few missile attacks, forcingM >inspectors to leave, and then no steps were taken to get the inspectors backc >in. l >nM >It was a big mistake for Clinton to widthdraw the inspectors. For one thing,aO >it was true that they were in fact a large source of intelligence feeding backeI >to the USA. (One european analyst pegged it at about 95% of intelligencee3 >coming from UN inspectors, 5% from actual spies). t >aM >In fact, the Bush regime didn't get motivated to attack because of evidence,:M >but rather because of lack of evidence/intelligence. It is as if Hussein hadsN >turned out the lights and the USA was blind to what was happening. So the USAM >started to imagine worse case scenarios and built up a case based on factualeL >stuff dating back to the 1980s. (a bit like a kid gets scared when you turnL >off the lights and imagines there is a big monster behind his closet door).   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:50:22 +0100d# From: edo <nobody@cryptorebels.net>eA Subject: Re: The State of the Union:  Lies from a Dishonest Mezeiy? Message-ID: <748a2c161506d2f1ffcdbd103b52066a@cryptorebels.net>a  % JF Mezei <nobody@nobody.com> trolled:t   >Greg Hennessy wrote:sG >> >Not in the USA.  Tax revenues increased at a much slower rate afterwE >> >the Reagan tax cut then before the cut, and increased much fastere4 >> >after taxes were raised again by Bush41/Clinton. >hJ >What you omit from those discussions is that the state of the economy andC >government revenus is affected by many factors, not just tax rate.s >sH >Recessions tend to heal themselves over time despite a government's badL >decisions. The Bush regime inherited a small cold and called it a recessionM >and took measures that make it look worse that it really was. It resulted inaO >it being worse than it really could have been. This was then followed by 9-11. O >Again, 9-11 could have been a boost for the USA economy because of the instant M >massive spending by the USA government to rebuild. But the Bush regime chose N >to lengthen the state of shock and constantly claim that the USA was under an& >imminent threath of terrorist attaks. >mK >Yeah, after a big crash like TWA800, bookings tend to fall for a couple ofiK >weeks. But it doesn't really result in 3 year long doldrums in the airlinerO >industry which has caused tens of thousands of job losses (probably even abovel
 >100,000). >a >dM >Secondly, while Bush Jr may claim that his recent tax cut is responsible forsJ >the USA economy apparently starting to grow again, in reality, it was theM >devaluation of the USA currency which achieved this, along with the cyclicalsL >nature of the economy. When business isn't going well, you can postpone theN >photocopier upgrade. But eventually, when your old photocoper breaks down tooL >often and impacts the business you still have, you have to go and spend the >money to replace it.  >  >"H >When Clinton took office,  the seeds for a recovery were already there,K >despite Bush Sr. But what Clinton brought in isn't new economic programmes N >starts on January 20th, but rather just a state of optimism which rallied the	 >country.  >-O >the Bush Regime has essentially kept the USA into a state of shock, depression J >since 9-11 in order to keep the masses loyal to his military and orwelianI >policies. The constant fear and total lack of optimism is what is really  >hurting the USA economy.t >AL >A true leader would have rallied the nation on Sept 15th 2001 and convincedM >the citizens not to let the terorists change the way their live and that thesC >USA would uphold its own values (which include due legal process).r >eI >Instead, the USA instituted the Patriot act, was running like a headlesstN >chicken with regards to airport security and realised that as long as it keptI >terrorism on the top of the agenda, the piss poor performance of the USAh >economy wouldn't be noticed.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:30:16 +0100a# From: edo <nobody@cryptorebels.net> A Subject: Re: The State of the Union: Lies about a Dishonest MezeiR? Message-ID: <c5832c02c45e24cb2db9c0ccc269184a@cryptorebels.net>r  % JF Mezei <nobody@nobody.com> trolled:    >Go Fig wrote:H >> That is interesting commentary, but what countries refuted the belief >> that the butcher had WMDs ? >eC >When you look at population, all of the world except US citizens.   > M >When you look at governments, all of the world except USA, UK, Australia andoJ >Spain who were the only ones to openly support Bush's bypassing of the UNI >process. Once the invasion started, a few more removed their opposition.i >tJ >Had you watched TV from outside the USA, you would have seen intelligenceO >experts discussing the USA claims and tearing them to bits. Bush and Bliar hadnJ >been told by their allies such as France, Germany, China, Russia that the >evidence was not valid. > H >And many other countries wanted the UN to continue the process that wasK >finally working to everyone's satisfaction. The USA owes Blix and the UN a L >huge apology for having purposefully discredited the UN and Blix as part of/ >the brainwashing package done to USA citizens.h >iN >Yes, Bush will blame the CIA and claim he had absolutely no warning that thisL >so called intelligence was fake. But that is not the case. He had plenty ofB >warning, including Blix and Baradei reports presented to the UN.  > K >Blix specifically said that his inspectors had carefully visited all sites O >that USA intelligence had provided him and had found not a single sign of WMD.iN >If you were OPresident of the USA, and you read that none of the intelligenceC >you provided the inspectors panned out, wouldn't you question your  >intelligence ?????s > O >Baradei specifically said the the accusation that Hussein was trying to obtainiN >nuclear materials were not only false, but were based on fabricated evidence.M >If you were Bliar or Bush, wouldn't you question your intelligence the seconE! >you learned about that finding ?A > G >Look, face it, boith Buch and Bliar knew perfectly well that there waseL >insufficient evidence to justify the destruction of Iraq. They had bet thatG >Hussein would not comply, which would have given them an open door, UNcK >sanctioned military operation in Iraq. They lost their bet because HusseinaK >complied and the UN was unwilling to allow a military invasion. Instead ofsL >claiming victory because Hussein was finally complying with UN inspections,N >Bush and Bliar chose to discredit the UN , ignore the UN, and attack anyways. > M >Ironically, the Bush regime claimed its illegal invasion was to enforce a UN J >resolution. If it was a UN resolution, it would have been up to the UN toL >decide on the invasion. The USA tried to get a second resolution that wouldL >have granted UN sanction over a USA/UK invasion. When the USA realised thatM >the UN would not allow this, they widthdrew their resolution which was never J >voted on and then proceeded with the illegal , unsanctioned invasion of aM >country which posed no threath to either the USA or UK, had not attacked thedN >USA or UK, nor was it capable of launching missiles capable of reaching these
 >2 countries.V >oK >By all definitions, the USA attack on Iraq was unprovoked and Iraq was the " >victim of a belligerant agressor. >oM >No matter how much you dislike someone, no matter how much you think someoneVN >is a criminal, due process must be respected. The american terrorist who blewI >up a government building was given proper judicial process. The american I >terrorist and his underage friend who killed many in the washington areadJ >causing a week of terror where people were affraid to go outside is beingH >given due process. We all know they are guilty, but you must follow the	 >process.a >rO >The same thing happens with international affairs. Due process when you have aOD >beef against someone outside your own jurisdiction is to go through8 >international bodies such as the UN, WTO, ICC, WCT etc.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:44:38 +0000 (UTC)sP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)8 Subject: Re: The VMS Path Not Taken: Now It Can be Told!$ Message-ID: <bvfte6$693$1@online.de>  D In article <jyBSb.2002$z_1.18999391@news-text.cableinet.net>, "David, Barnes" <david@nospam-bitsolve.com> writes:   H > > VMS would be dead in 3 months.  Who would pay the salaries for Hoff,K > > Guy, Andy, Fred and all the other fine folks?  I DON'T think a bunch of:K > > students in their spare time could match the quality of code coming outaL > > of Spit Brook Road.  The fact that Linux is now comparable to commercialJ > > unix says more about the low quality of commercial unix than about the > > high quality of VMS. >  > Tongue in cheek I agree!$ > I was dreaming of a perfect world. > K > That said it is worth a discussion on the merits of whether a pepper-cornrI > $50 a year licence rising by concurrent users/ processes would meet theeN > funding needed, and whether an NPO owned by the licensees would be feasible.L > One could see VMS on x86 as a 'pie in the sky' possibility, but the access> > to cheap hardware and hence a large install base make sense.  H I definitely don't think "free VMS", in whatever form, is the way to go.: I DO think that there should be some entry-level licenses.  E Compaq paid $9 billion for DEC.  Assuming it would make sense to buy eH just VMS, we're probably talking about at least $1 billion.  So even if F we could get 1000 VMS fanatics together, we're talking a million each.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 05:23:02 -0500S* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>8 Subject: Re: The VMS Path Not Taken: Now It Can be Told!) Message-ID: <401B81B7.C6B5DC41@istop.com>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:iF > Compaq paid $9 billion for DEC.  Assuming it would make sense to buy= > just VMS, we're probably talking about at least $1 billion.   D When you consider all the assets which Compaq disposed of (or ratherJ "donated"), then almost all of that 9 billion went to the toilet. It is noQ wonder Compaq faltered and curly had to beg Carly to rescue Compaq from oblivion.e  K Capellas was as qualified to run Compaq as those guys off the street are to,F run a restaurant for one night in the USA TV program "The Apprentice".  F But the real issue is that the Compaq board agreed to let Pfeiffer buyI Digital. The minute they agreed to it, they should have insisted that the G assets they were paying for were returning the maximum anount of money.iM Capellas made sure to simply dispose of those assets, wishing to forget aboute4 that 9 billion investment and concentrate on Wintel.  M Consider Digital's PC assembly facility in Kanata Ontario Canada. It was morelM efficient than Compaq's. When you're down to seeking to cut half a penny from.K assembly costs in order to compete against Dell, and  you pay good money tohI buy a more efficient facility, it is pretty stupid to shutdown the bettera* facility and keep your less efficient one.  N Had Pfeiffer not begun takeover talks with Palmer 3 years before, Palmer wouldN have been ousted and perhaps someone more competant would have been put at theM helm with a clear mandate to rebuild Digital instead of cannabalising Digitalw& (which was Palmer's apparent mandate).   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 13:19:07 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>5 Subject: Re: What happend with vmspython.dyndns.org ? 0 Message-ID: <401BAB4B.1FB6F993@sture.homeip.net>   Robert Trawinski wrote:e > * > What happend with vmspython.dyndns.org ? >   1 I don't know, but the Python kit can be found at:i  , http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/kits/     -- u
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 13:20:44 +0100e* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>5 Subject: Re: What happend with vmspython.dyndns.org ?a0 Message-ID: <401BABAC.1BA53DD0@sture.homeip.net>   Robert Trawinski wrote:R > * > What happend with vmspython.dyndns.org ? >   F http://vmspython.dyndns.org/ works for me (Saturday 31-jan 12:20 GMT)    -- c
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.061 ************************