1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 10 Jul 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 378       Contents:+ Re: Accuweather video mentions VMS (TWICE!)  Re: Booting VAX from tape ; Call to stop blaming the users -- make software more secure ? Re: Call to stop blaming the users -- make software more secure 4 Re: Changing a Unix path to a VMS file specification4 Re: Changing a Unix path to a VMS file specification  Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS  Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS  Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS  Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS Re: CP Charges... $ Re: Datatrieve Help Creating Domains$ Re: Datatrieve Help Creating DomainsN Re: Hello, I want to complain-- [You want to complain!] (Was:  Accuweather...)- Re: HP Itanium servers at CDW, OpenVMS listed - Re: HP Itanium servers at CDW, OpenVMS listed = Re: Intel Itanium's very survival in doubt - inquirer article  Re: Itanium Porting Class " Re: JF on Americans and their SUVs+ OpenVMS license transfer  policies and fees / Re: OpenVMS license transfer  policies and fees / Re: OpenVMS license transfer  policies and fees / Re: OpenVMS license transfer  policies and fees 6 Re: OpenVMS Management Station -  cluster storage ????8 Re: OpenVMS ssh login problem with pre-expired passwords Re: OT: CP Charges... 0 Re: Question about AS 800 and display resolution Re: Reading from a LAT device % VAX Users See the Writing on the Wall ) RE: VAX Users See the Writing on the Wall ) RE: VAX Users See the Writing on the Wall   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 20:55:19 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>4 Subject: Re: Accuweather video mentions VMS (TWICE!)* Message-ID: <40EF4C87.D0E7DF5@comcast.net>   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > g > David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<40EDF146.B11E6051@comcast.net>...  > > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > > > k > > > David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<40EC9D16.6F16C23E@comcast.net>...   > > > > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:	 > > > > > w > > > > > Charles Shannon Hendrix <shannon@news.widomaker.com> wrote in message news:<bi5fcc.lt2.ln@escape.goid.lan>... J > > > > > > On 2004-07-06, Alan E. Feldman <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > T > > > > > > > I've viewed so few videos from the Net that this has never happened toS > > > > > > > me. I've had problems viewing videos, yes. But still this is great to R > > > > > > > see HP promoting VMS, even if it's not the best possible effort. WhyR > > > > > > > don't you ask them to remove the video and destroy it? Would that be > > > > > > > better? 
 > > > > > > > M > > > > > > > I'm not going to let the nitpickers ruin this for me. I enjoyed   > > > > > > > watching it a lot. > > > > > > P > > > > > > If they aren't providing it in a standard format, just how seriously1 > > > > > > can you take this "promotion" of VMS? 	 > > > > > M > > > > > You would prefer a promotion of something else on a VMS-friendly or & > > > > > otherwise "standard" format? > > > >  > > > > Non-sequitur.  > > > H > > > I disagree. What's more important? Promoting VMS or using standard > > > formats? > > L > > Careful, there. Do you mean INDUSTRY standards (negotiated industry-wideK > > through a recognized standards body), or de-facto standards? What about K > > vendor-specific (and not necessarily compatible) extensions to industry  > > standards? > ? > I mean this: Pick A or B. Pick only one, as they are mutually  > exclusive: > E > A) HP makes a VMS promotional video with Accuweather as the star of D > the video as it just did, the same way, same bat channel, same bat > format, etc. > & > B) HP doesn't make the video at all.  E Hp makes the same mistake of trying to force two equally unacceptable F options down customer/prospect's the user's throat, then wondering why they lost the sale.   F I believe your question answers itself, but since you repeat it below, we'll discuss it further there.   B > > > Promoting VMS, of course! So why be more upset of the lesserG > > > of the two? Don't miss the forest for the trees, or whatever that  > > > saying is! > > @ > > How 'bout, "A nod is as good as a wink - to a blind horse."? >  > Not applicable.   C Well, actually yes it is. Put it another way: if I cannot view your = little piece of media schtick, does the content matter to me?   
 > > [snip] > > L > > Do we congratulate them for their scientific achievement or consign them" > > to the MiB's oblivion forever? >  > What is MiB?  F "Men in Black" - the US CIA or NSA, the guys in the black helicopters, etc.  
 > > [snip] > > > 0.5 > 0 Eq. (1)  > > K > > On some systems I worked on years ago, "true" was indicated by the sign L > > (highest order) bit, not the lowest order bit. Negative was "true", zero8 > > or positive was false (business BASIC on DCC's EOS). >  > Not the least bit relevant.    Excellent pun, by the way...  
 > > [snip]K > > Why settle for mediocrity when you can achieve excellence? (Hint: Doing H > > what everyone else does and getting what everyone else gets *IS* the > > definition of mediocrity.) > 5 > Because basically you have no choice in the matter.   D Well, actually yes "you" do. "You" just need to make better choices.   > To get people to0 > do something you need a carrot and/or a stick.  F A mentor of mine put it this way: herding buffalo is easy, so long you  herd them where THEY want to go.   > We are not in the  > position to use the stick   B Well, yes and no. We can "vote with our wallet"; however, with theH industry now turning against M$ (I can post URLs to some e-zine and websH ite articles indicating that corporations are beginning to ban InterhoseC Exploder), "the stick" begins to carry more weight. Will be a while ) before it reaches "critical mass", but...   + > so we are left with the carrot. (Actually  > I'd prefer Filet Mignon.)   # Ribeye or Prime Rib is mine, thanx!   
 > > [snip] > > > And a video K > > > promoting VMS is a video promoting VMS. Do you think people are going C > > > to view the window promoting VMS and Accuweather and think to * > > > themselves "Hmmm. Some psychic power > > H > > Try the little messagebox explaining that (insert name of UN*X mediaH > > player) cannot understand the file format. Nothing psychic about it. > H > Uh, the Windows users won't see that and so won't be affected. Read itG > again. I wrote of people viewing the video. If they can view it, then E > they probably have Windows and won't see the "cannot understand..." 
 > message.  : If their player won't read the data, how did they view it?  % > > > is penetrating my brain telling E > > > me that this video only runs on Windows. Therefore, the VMS and F > > > AccuWeather(TM) really means I should invest more in Windows andI > > > forget everything else". I don't know, Dave, sounds pretty silly to 	 > > > me!  > > K > > ...but not to the masses, or to the marketing mavens who introduce such @ > > subtleties quite intentionally to achieve that exact result! > B > Yes, a video that talks about nothing but how hp and OpenVMS areB > extremely important to the success of Accuweather is obviously a? > clever Billy plot to sell more Windows. Nope, I don't see it.   5 Good - because that's not what I said. Read it again.   M > > > > > If you did something you thought was good and people just yelled at O > > > > > you for not doing it quite right, would that encourage you to do more 0 > > > > > and try to correct what you did wrong? > > > > I > > > > Ask that question of a child development expert. The answer might  > > > > surprise you.  > > >  > > > Well, hp is not a child. > >  > > That's debatable.  > 0 > Well, if it is a child, it's not *your* child.  ; Teachers spend their whole day with children not their own.   3 > > > I suggest that you call up Carly and ball her  > >  > > My wife would be jealous...  > > , > > > out to the max! See what good it does. > > K > > Not that I would really consider such a thing with a recognized head of L > > a major corporation. There are more tactful ways to suggest improvement. > " > Ah! Now we're getting somewhere! > F > > Then again, "blue streak" seems to be the only language some folks > > understand.  >  > Explain "blue streak".  A Perhaps an entirely American expression: "cussin' a blue streak".    > > > And what do these "child' > > > development experts" know anyway?  > >  > > More than you, apparently. > A > Let's not get personal! You're not winning any points with this 	 > remark.   0 My steam valve was recahing its pressure limits.  ' > > > > > If Guy Peleg implemented some P > > > > > cool new DCL function but did something slightly wrong, would you yellO > > > > > at him for it instead of thanking him and then expect him to continue L > > > > > to be enthusiastic about adding functionality to DCL? I think not! > > > > P > > > > Well, typically this group will be among the first to find/point out theO > > > > faults. I like to think that the likes of Guy, Fred, etc. would exploit P > > > > that to their best advantage (a ready group of beta-testers, if somewhat > > > > sharp-toothed).  > > > D > > > But the group would sensibly avoid nasty insults and the like, > > E > > Your observation is inconsistent with this group's experience and  > > history. >  > References, please?   D http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.os.vms   > [snip] > A or B? Which do you prefer?   Well, let's see:  % A is relevant, but only 95% complete. # B is irrelevant, and 100% complete.   > Meanwhile, vendor #2 has option C: relevant and 100% complete.   Sorry, you snoozed - you lose!   D.J.D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:05:14 GMT 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>" Subject: Re: Booting VAX from tape- Message-ID: <eMDHc.58402$XM6.53429@attbi_s53>    Colin Butcher wrote:  G > All devices need a boot block containing an initial boot loader. That L > contains minimal drivers for the boot device. The boot block for a tape isN > very different from that for a CD. So, copying a CD to a tape isn't going toN > produce a bootable tape. As you would expect VMS has a mechanism for writingF > a bootable tape, but that's only possible from a running VMS system.  @ An image copy to a SCSI disk drive, such as using the dd command1 under NetBSD, will also generate a bootable disk.   C I have a CD-ROM with 512 byte block size, but it still had problems > booting off the CD.  Fortunately I have a few SCSI disk drivesA in the 1GB range.  Once the image is made it might be faster than  booting off the CD.    -- glen    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jul 2004 16:02:09 -0700 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) D Subject: Call to stop blaming the users -- make software more secure= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0407091502.7c1353ac@posting.google.com>   C It's interesting to see that some of the most-recent attacks on the F Windows platform don't involve the user doing anything "wrong" -- theyD can attack a Windows system that is merely connected to the InternetF (or, in another recent example, even when the user is doing nothing toF do with e-mail and simply happens to use IE to view a website that has been successfully attacked).  F For a long time, in the VMS world, we've been saying that the software@ itself is the problem, not the user, and that security has to beE designed in from scratch, not patched on later. It seems some are now * starting to come around to this viewpoint.  = I particularly enjoyed this article from eSecurityPlanet.com: 8 http://www.esecurityplanet.com/views/article.php/3377201   "Blaming Users for Virus Chaos?  By Kenneth van Wyk July 6, 2004  F A common rallying cry heard around IT Security departments is the need9 for more security awareness training for corporate users.   D This cry seems to resurface every time a new email-borne virus comesE out that dupes our users into clicking on an attachment and infecting D their PCs. The IT security team invariably finds itself shocked thatA users could be so easily fooled into clicking on that attachment.  ... E But is it really (or only) users who are at fault? I say that there's F plenty of blame to go around. And more awareness training will not fix the problem. ...  B After all, the email client didn't seem to complain when the usersE clicked on the attachment, which was delivered to users' desktops via B the corporate email servers. Why didn't the email servers stop theD virus? Why didn't the desktop anti-virus program stop the virus? Why@ did the email client allow the new code, in the form of an email7 attachment, to run just because the user clicked on it?   = These are not problems that can be solved with user awareness 	 training.  ... > There's plenty of culpability to go around, and user awarenessE training is simply passing the buck, so that fundamental flaws in our C popular software don't get exploited quite so often -- at least, in  theory.  ... D So, you ask, if we can't count on our users to always make the rightD choice, how can we possibly defend ourselves against new viruses and other nasties that come along?  A Like so many things in the world of security, we have to practice A defense in depth. User awareness training is just one of the many F defensive layers that we need to ensure are in place. Other layers areB vital as well, though. Most IT organizations are familiar with the5 perimeter layer -- the firewalls, DMZs, and so forth.   D To date, however, nowhere near enough attention has been paid to the> innermost layer -- our software security. ... It starts at theE earliest phases of an application's {or operating system's --KP} life A cycle, at the architectural and design levels. That's to say that B we've got to get serious about fielding software that protects our users."   D OpenVMS is such software. There have been days when while the latestD attack is underway, I'll just fire up Mozilla, etc. on my VMS systemD and continue to do useful work and simply wait until things die down: before trying to connect my Windows laptop to the network.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 22:02:46 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> H Subject: Re: Call to stop blaming the users -- make software more secure, Message-ID: <V8GdnUIvFNYjzXLdRVn-gw@igs.net>   Keith Parris wrote: E > It's interesting to see that some of the most-recent attacks on the H > Windows platform don't involve the user doing anything "wrong" -- theyF > can attack a Windows system that is merely connected to the InternetH > (or, in another recent example, even when the user is doing nothing toH > do with e-mail and simply happens to use IE to view a website that has > been successfully attacked). > H > For a long time, in the VMS world, we've been saying that the softwareB > itself is the problem, not the user, and that security has to beG > designed in from scratch, not patched on later. It seems some are now , > starting to come around to this viewpoint. > ? > I particularly enjoyed this article from eSecurityPlanet.com: : > http://www.esecurityplanet.com/views/article.php/3377201 > ! > "Blaming Users for Virus Chaos?  > By Kenneth van Wyk > July 6, 2004 > H > A common rallying cry heard around IT Security departments is the need; > for more security awareness training for corporate users.  > F > This cry seems to resurface every time a new email-borne virus comesG > out that dupes our users into clicking on an attachment and infecting F > their PCs. The IT security team invariably finds itself shocked thatC > users could be so easily fooled into clicking on that attachment.  > ... G > But is it really (or only) users who are at fault? I say that there's H > plenty of blame to go around. And more awareness training will not fix > the problem. ... > D > After all, the email client didn't seem to complain when the usersG > clicked on the attachment, which was delivered to users' desktops via D > the corporate email servers. Why didn't the email servers stop theF > virus? Why didn't the desktop anti-virus program stop the virus? WhyB > did the email client allow the new code, in the form of an email9 > attachment, to run just because the user clicked on it?  > ? > These are not problems that can be solved with user awareness  > training.  > ... @ > There's plenty of culpability to go around, and user awarenessG > training is simply passing the buck, so that fundamental flaws in our E > popular software don't get exploited quite so often -- at least, in 	 > theory.  > ... F > So, you ask, if we can't count on our users to always make the rightF > choice, how can we possibly defend ourselves against new viruses and  > other nasties that come along? > C > Like so many things in the world of security, we have to practice C > defense in depth. User awareness training is just one of the many H > defensive layers that we need to ensure are in place. Other layers areD > vital as well, though. Most IT organizations are familiar with the7 > perimeter layer -- the firewalls, DMZs, and so forth.  > F > To date, however, nowhere near enough attention has been paid to the@ > innermost layer -- our software security. ... It starts at theG > earliest phases of an application's {or operating system's --KP} life C > cycle, at the architectural and design levels. That's to say that D > we've got to get serious about fielding software that protects our	 > users."  > F > OpenVMS is such software. There have been days when while the latestF > attack is underway, I'll just fire up Mozilla, etc. on my VMS systemF > and continue to do useful work and simply wait until things die down< > before trying to connect my Windows laptop to the network.     Keith,  L Did you write you the author of the article to explain how a secure reliableJ operating system is the cornerstone to any 'safe' application, and how VMS fits that bill?   J When you, or I, or anyone else here, see article such as the one mentionedJ in your post, it ought to be that we write to the author of the article toI bring their attention to life forms orther than Windows, Linux, and unix.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 01:45:25 +0200 B From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>= Subject: Re: Changing a Unix path to a VMS file specification 7 Message-ID: <40EF2E15.66B6@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>    Craig A. Berry wrote:  > : > In article <8bcle0l0v2sainaubq1rbn5l8mlgg2jmpq@4ax.com>,, >  David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com> wrote: > F > > I have an application that generates all file specifications in a F > > Unix path format.  I need to process the files that are generated E > > by the application in a DCL process and need a way to change the  % > > path to a VMS file specification.  > F > All that aside, there really should be a lexical to handle this from > DCL.  A A general string replace lexical would be nice as well. Something  like :    A F$REPLACE(string,from-string,to-string[,option][,start-position])     with option = ALL, FIRST or LAST   --   ME Posted by news://news.nb.nu    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:06:24 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>= Subject: Re: Changing a Unix path to a VMS file specification + Message-ID: <40EF4F20.3F19A6B1@comcast.net>    Michiel Erens wrote: >  > Craig A. Berry wrote:  > > < > > In article <8bcle0l0v2sainaubq1rbn5l8mlgg2jmpq@4ax.com>,. > >  David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com> wrote: > > G > > > I have an application that generates all file specifications in a G > > > Unix path format.  I need to process the files that are generated F > > > by the application in a DCL process and need a way to change the' > > > path to a VMS file specification.  > > H > > All that aside, there really should be a lexical to handle this from > > DCL. > C > A general string replace lexical would be nice as well. Something  > like : > C > F$REPLACE(string,from-string,to-string[,option][,start-position])  > " > with option = ALL, FIRST or LAST  G There's already a STR$REPLACE rotuine in the RTL, but its function is a & bit different from what you described.   D.J.D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:09:57 GMT 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>) Subject: Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS - Message-ID: <FQDHc.41745$JR4.17839@attbi_s54>   9 Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message  / news:<WG1YzffNBYX2@eisner.encompasserve.org>...     J >I don't believe 8 inch floppies were ever a standard Microvax peripheral.  9 The 750 at least had an 8 inch single density only floppy : built in.  I used that many times for transferring data to= an RT-11 system.   There were utilities to write RT-11 format 	 floppies.    -- glen    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 15:33:14 -0600 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> ) Subject: Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS B Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20040709153215.02471028@raptor.psccos.com>  0 At 03:09 PM 7/9/2004, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:    : >Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message 0 >news:<WG1YzffNBYX2@eisner.encompasserve.org>... >  > K >>I don't believe 8 inch floppies were ever a standard Microvax peripheral.  > : >The 750 at least had an 8 inch single density only floppy; >built in.  I used that many times for transferring data to > >an RT-11 system.   There were utilities to write RT-11 format
 >floppies.  D The 78x had an RX02 floppy.  The 750 had a TU58 DECtape II.  Slowest booting creature ever!   ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jul 2004 23:04:13 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ) Subject: Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS 3 Message-ID: <0v+i4NTv7iop@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <6.0.0.22.2.20040709153215.02471028@raptor.psccos.com>, Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:2 > At 03:09 PM 7/9/2004, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: >  > ; >>Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message  1 >>news:<WG1YzffNBYX2@eisner.encompasserve.org>...  >> >>L >>>I don't believe 8 inch floppies were ever a standard Microvax peripheral. >>; >>The 750 at least had an 8 inch single density only floppy < >>built in.  I used that many times for transferring data to? >>an RT-11 system.   There were utilities to write RT-11 format  >>floppies.  >  > The 78x had an RX02 floppy.   3 Neither the 750 nor the 78x systems was a Microvax.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 22:09:10 -0600 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> ) Subject: Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS B Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20040709220834.0246d780@raptor.psccos.com>  , At 10:04 PM 7/9/2004, Larry Kilgallen wrote:H >In article <6.0.0.22.2.20040709153215.02471028@raptor.psccos.com>, Dan $ >O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:4 > > At 03:09 PM 7/9/2004, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: > >  > > < > >>Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message3 > >>news:<WG1YzffNBYX2@eisner.encompasserve.org>...  > >> > >>N > >>>I don't believe 8 inch floppies were ever a standard Microvax peripheral. > >>= > >>The 750 at least had an 8 inch single density only floppy > > >>built in.  I used that many times for transferring data toA > >>an RT-11 system.   There were utilities to write RT-11 format 
 > >>floppies.  > >  > > The 78x had an RX02 floppy.  > 4 >Neither the 750 nor the 78x systems was a Microvax.  J Agreed.  He was talking about the built-in 8" floppy on his 750.  My reply was a correction to that.      ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 18:45:12 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>  Subject: Re: CP Charges...8 Message-ID: <vante0p578urn8d86gve4uhm1ptlud90ie@4ax.com>  G On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 13:01:19 -0400, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:   G >This *could* simply be a typo. As I always get confused by the English ? >predilection towards hypenated names, should I address you as:  >  >Mr. Car Park Charges  >or  >Mr Car Park-Charges  D For us Brits it should be either Sir Car Park-Charges or Lord Car of Park-Charges:-)      -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 20:34:30 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> - Subject: Re: Datatrieve Help Creating Domains ' Message-ID: <40EEE536.ED596B91@aaa.com>    Jim Strehlow wrote:  > G > What is different between VAX and Alpha was (historically) VAX stored D > objects in the Common Data Dictionary (CDD) where Alpha stores the- > objects in individual files in directories.   F I think you can select/setup where you want to store your definitions. At least on Alpha.  	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 07:07:22 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>- Subject: Re: Datatrieve Help Creating Domains * Message-ID: <2l9bsbFacp18U1@uni-berlin.de>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > Jim Strehlow wrote:  > G >>What is different between VAX and Alpha was (historically) VAX stored D >>objects in the Common Data Dictionary (CDD) where Alpha stores the- >>objects in individual files in directories.  >  > H > I think you can select/setup where you want to store your definitions. > At least on Alpha. >    Alpha, without CDD:    $ show log cdd*   5    "CDD$DEFAULT" = "SYS$SYSDEVICE:[DTR_DEFINITIONS.]" 0    "CDD$TOP" = "SYS$SYSDEVICE:[DTR_DEFINITIONS]"  E SYS$SYSDEVICE:[DTR_DEFINITIONS] being the directory I specified when  H executing DTR$LIBRARY:NEWUSER.COM in response to the following question:  : Please enter the OpenVMS directory where you want to store the DATATRIEVE definitions:    ------------------------------   Date: 10 Jul 2004 05:22:38 GMT2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>W Subject: Re: Hello, I want to complain-- [You want to complain!] (Was:  Accuweather...) ? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-NoUCPboimhzd@dave2_os2.home.ours>   F No dig at anybody but isn't this gtting a little out of hand. I've notF viewed the site. I'm using OS/2. My setup doesn't do .WMV. It does do E MPG so I share the frustration. OTOH, on the practical level, what's  F so difficult about putting a choice of formats on the page. The readerA can then click the one relevant to his OS (and take the download  E time/quality trade-off into account). More work for the provider? Of  8 course but hardly an imsurmountable challenge :) surely?   --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 18:43:34 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> 6 Subject: Re: HP Itanium servers at CDW, OpenVMS listed8 Message-ID: <57nte0pbl813p786o5m6vohgmnm4klnkrn@4ax.com>  E On 9 Jul 2004 09:47:24 -0700, jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) wrote:   A >Sort of a minor OpenVMS sighting.  I just received a CDW catalog B >featuring HP products.  On page 9, four itanium based servers areF >listed.  The descriptions for the rx1600-2 and rx2600-2 list "OpenVMSB >V8.1 Evaluation Release and OpenVMS V8.2", and the rx4640-8 lists; >"OpenVMS".  The rx5670 only lists HPUX, wintel, and Linux.  > & >Unfortunately no prices are listed...  N The rx5670 will never be supported by OpenVMS. As a quad CPU platform even for7 HP-UX it has in any case been superseded by the rx4640.    -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:48:16 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>6 Subject: Re: HP Itanium servers at CDW, OpenVMS listed+ Message-ID: <40EF58F0.C1135147@comcast.net>    Rich Jordan wrote: > B > Sort of a minor OpenVMS sighting.  I just received a CDW catalogC > featuring HP products.  On page 9, four itanium based servers are G > listed.  The descriptions for the rx1600-2 and rx2600-2 list "OpenVMS C > V8.1 Evaluation Release and OpenVMS V8.2", and the rx4640-8 lists < > "OpenVMS".  The rx5670 only lists HPUX, wintel, and Linux. > ' > Unfortunately no prices are listed...   - WoW!!!! You can't BUY that kind of publicity!   > Makes me wonder if one of us isn't secretly working for CDW...   D.J.D.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 18:00:02 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>F Subject: Re: Intel Itanium's very survival in doubt - inquirer article6 Message-ID: <1040709174244.16558A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  * On Fri, 9 Jul 2004, Andrew Harrison wrote:   > John Santos wrote: > . > > On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Andrew Harrison wrote: >  > > > > > All emulation performance data ever provided by anyone for@ > > anything in the history of the universe has this limitation. > >  > 9 > Sorry but that is entirely wrong. If for example HP had < > run the HP-PA SPECint executables on Itanium then we would9 > be able to see how a workload which is 99.9% user runs.   C You take my quote out of context and then say it is entirely wrong.   > You snipped the statement I was responding to, and didn't even< have the courtesy to indicate that you had snipped anything.  8 My statement was and is perfectly true in the context in which I made it.  8 Having written both software and hardware emulators, and9 having benchmarked them hundreds of times, I think I know 3 a hell of a lot more about the subject than you do.   = > >>Regretably all the emulation performance data I have seen ? > >>provided by HP falls into the bind category, workloads that ? > >>are predominantly kernel based where the kernel is a native  > >>IA64 port. > >  > > G > > Here is where you make an unsupported claim.  Is BIND kernel-bound? @ > > You have posted no data to support this, you just assume it. > >  > B > Yes I have, just not in the particular posting you responded to. > : > One of the Bind examples (running on HP-UX) includes top6 > output with shows a roughly 60/40 kernel/user split.  = The 60/40 split is useful information.  However, it wasn't in = the post I responded to, or in any post I've seen.  Since you A were assuming it, you should have cited it in the post I did see.   D This is Usenet.  Posts get lost.  Posts get propagated out-of-order.? People don't read it every day.  Don't assume everyone has seen > or has even had the opportunity to see every post.  If you are@ basing a claim on something said in another thread or subthread,8 or even on something long-since snipped, then you should
 recapitulate.   = Please learn some basics of newsgroup etiquette.  You've been @ posting long enough that no one should cut you any newbie slack.   > B > > Maybe it is true, maybe it isn't, but since you are making theD > > claim, you have to support it.  Otherwise it is nothing but FUD. > >  > 	 > I have.  > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison  >  >    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 16:46:06 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>" Subject: Re: Itanium Porting Class. Message-ID: <40EECBCE.17860.4D35584@localhost>  3 >From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> & >Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 14:34:42 -0400D >It was disappointing that several people did this.  But it's a heckE >of a deal.  Attendees were given coupons to lease an rx2600 for $100 F >per month, with ownership for $1 at the end of 2 years.  I don't need >my coupon now...   = The paperwork showed up today.  Here's the important details:   A - This is a HP Financial Services lease application, with "HP-ISV    Program" at the top.E - The HP Leasing rep is Angie Bauer, angie.bauer@hp.com, 503-644-8373 * - Lease plan is 24 months, $1 buyout lease  " Guess you could give her a call...  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363u3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:59:33 GMTr From: "AC" <qqq@dewy.com.au>+ Subject: Re: JF on Americans and their SUVsh. Message-ID: <40ef1543$1@news.comindico.com.au>  A Wow, you picked up on the one generalisation he made in the post!e  : It's a shame you can't logically dismiss the rest of it...    ) "Poor JF" <poor@poor.jf> wrote in messagea0 news:ZZZGMNF638159.813587963@anonymous.poster...( > JF Mezei <jfmezei@teksavvy.com> wrote: >o > >leslie wrote:G > >> General Motors' CIO states that 60% of their growth will come fromI@ > >> underdeveloped countries such as India and Communist China: > >aK > >Which is why car makers are scrambling to invest in China. StrategicallynL > >however, this is a VERY BAD move. Yes, the car maker may increase profit. But L > >the higher demand for cars in China will also result in higher demand for oil.I > >And when you have a few billion people wanting more oil, it will put an lot ofK > >strain on the oil supply. So americans will have to pay more at the pumpe to, > >drive their beloved single occupant SUVs. > >pC > >And when a billion people start burning oil, global warming willt	 suddentlyWB > >become an emergency and then all those countries who refused to acknowledgenH > >the problem will have to pay the big bucks to not only start to adopt Kyoto-J > >rules, but implement them at a far greater speed (and thus extreme cost to theD > >economy in short term) than those economies who adopted Kyoto and proceeded at= > >slower speed over long period with less impact on economy.a > > G > >If americans want to continue to drive SUVs to the supermarket, they6 should3 > >not be helping China become a car based society.  > H > OMG!!!  All those Americans driving their single occupancy SUVs to the" > supermarket are out to get JF!!! >A > Oh the humanity!!! >  >  >  >  >  >  >r >  >n >  >d >  >a   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jul 2004 13:20:22 -0700g& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)4 Subject: OpenVMS license transfer  policies and fees< Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0407091220.a698303@posting.google.com>  * Every step forward comes with a step back.   <rant>  B Its not enough that DEC's archaic and restrictive license transferF policies for OpenVMS have been retained.  Its not enough that a recentF Alpha with OpenVMS base license and the enterprise integration packageA could ONLY be transferred with the base license, that NONE of the E networking or other licenses could be relicensed, and that the DECnet C for Alpha was the one special nontransferable DECnet license so younE can't even keep DECnet (unlike all the VAX versions).  Its not enougha; that the cost of repurchasing those licenses all over againo2 eviscerates potential sale after potential sale...  D Now they've raised the relicense fee from $300 to $400... for moving? that one single base license.  No changes in what is allowed to?D transfer, no relaxation of the heavy restrictions... just more blood: money to keep an OpenVMS system running in a new location.   </rant>o   Thanks tons, HP.   Rich   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 17:55:42 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>d8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS license transfer  policies and fees, Message-ID: <qPKdnbroP-X1iXLdRVn-gg@igs.net>   Rich Jordan wrote:, > Every step forward comes with a step back. >t > <rant> > D > Its not enough that DEC's archaic and restrictive license transferH > policies for OpenVMS have been retained.  Its not enough that a recentH > Alpha with OpenVMS base license and the enterprise integration packageC > could ONLY be transferred with the base license, that NONE of theeG > networking or other licenses could be relicensed, and that the DECnetoE > for Alpha was the one special nontransferable DECnet license so you G > can't even keep DECnet (unlike all the VAX versions).  Its not enoughs= > that the cost of repurchasing those licenses all over again 4 > eviscerates potential sale after potential sale... >.F > Now they've raised the relicense fee from $300 to $400... for movingA > that one single base license.  No changes in what is allowed to F > transfer, no relaxation of the heavy restrictions... just more blood< > money to keep an OpenVMS system running in a new location. >s	 > </rant>o >e > Thanks tons, HP. >  > Rich     No kidding.      Click here:u: http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/email/fiorina/index.html  # Paste your complaint and elaborate.  Send.d  K Or better yet, find out where carly(tm) gets her hair & nails done and thentI give her hairdresser or manicurist all the details. If it's worth knowingb! about, they'll know at the salon.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:50:12 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS license transfer  policies and fees+ Message-ID: <40EF5964.A876859D@comcast.net>    Rich Jordan wrote: > , > Every step forward comes with a step back. >  > <rant> > D > Its not enough that DEC's archaic and restrictive license transferH > policies for OpenVMS have been retained.  Its not enough that a recentH > Alpha with OpenVMS base license and the enterprise integration packageC > could ONLY be transferred with the base license, that NONE of the G > networking or other licenses could be relicensed, and that the DECnetrE > for Alpha was the one special nontransferable DECnet license so youzG > can't even keep DECnet (unlike all the VAX versions).  Its not enoughb= > that the cost of repurchasing those licenses all over againt4 > eviscerates potential sale after potential sale... > F > Now they've raised the relicense fee from $300 to $400... for movingA > that one single base license.  No changes in what is allowed to F > transfer, no relaxation of the heavy restrictions... just more blood< > money to keep an OpenVMS system running in a new location. > 	 > </rant>r >  > Thanks tons, HP. >  > Rich  	 <co-rant>h9 O.K. Who's going to be the first blasting his negativity?a
 </co-rant>   D.J.D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 22:13:44 -0500t( From: Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net>8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS license transfer  policies and fees2 Message-ID: <qdmdnbI6wM73wnLdRVn-hQ@speakeasy.net>   John Smith wrote:  > Rich Jordan wrote: > , >>Every step forward comes with a step back.	 >>  .....e >  > 
 > No kidding.h >  > 
 > Click here: < > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/email/fiorina/index.html > % > Paste your complaint and elaborate.  > Send.  > M > Or better yet, find out where carly(tm) gets her hair & nails done and theneK > give her hairdresser or manicurist all the details. If it's worth knowing # > about, they'll know at the salon.h >  >   - Will do that on Monday.  Thanks for the link.i   Rich   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jul 2004 15:30:05 -0700 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)l? Subject: Re: OpenVMS Management Station -  cluster storage ????r< Message-ID: <cf15391e.0407091430.e0e6cc1@posting.google.com>  u dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com (Dave Baxter) wrote in message news:<a3c44af1.0407071017.5d2612b4@posting.google.com>...sE >     As far as I am aware, I have my SAN/CLUSTER configured for highcG > redundancy, and therefore I am trying to figure out why my system had F > such a bad time when all that happened was that a controller failed.  > Based on your description, it certainly sounds like you have a< fully-redundant configuration (dual HBAs, dual fabrics, dualF controller-pairs, shadowing across controller pairs). So things should> have worked. In such a case, it usually involves some in-depth> analysis with the support folks to figure out what went wrong.  B They'll look at things like patch status on VMS, SAN configurationF (and error counters on switches), firmware levels on all the hardware,A determine the settings for various timeout values like the SYSGEN D parameter setting SHADOW_MBR_TMO and member timeouts that can be setF with DCL commands, error logs, console logs, and so forth, and get you, an answer if it's humanly possible to do so.  E > When a disk controller fails, it is supposed to failover all of thei2 > drives it has responsibility for to its partner.  E Yes, it is supposed to. I've run into a few cases over the years whenwF it hasn't, but that's the very reason why you shadow between different? controller pairs -- that should have covered that unlikely, but  possible, event.  8 > The message I received from the Management station wasA >      "PROD11: Shadow set DSA12: has no member device on NODE01"  > E > This implies to me that the Shadow set has no members !!?   Is thiso > what it is really saying ???  @ Things must be very bad if NODE01 can't see ANY of the shadowsetD members. Any chance your dual SAN fabrics got accidentally connected into one fabric?  A It's clear that it is going to take much deeper analysis than thet@ output from the Management Station to get to the bottom of this.C Console output from both the VMS systems and the HSG controllers (IrE hope it was saved) and error logs both on VMS and the controllers aret) going to be crucial pieces of the puzzle.g   ------------------------------  " Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 17:48:20 GMT' From: Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> A Subject: Re: OpenVMS ssh login problem with pre-expired passwordsn1 Message-ID: <I0LIsM.Coy@sysadm.physics.uiowa.edu>o   Michael,  L That is not true for SSH for OpenVMS (v2) from Process.  The layered productK for TCPIP from HP.  I assume if you have the full-up Multinet it would alsor be the same.  K Note SSH1 did not have the hooks in it to support that kind of O/S response4H to a using trying to login.  It requires clients to be using SSH2 (whichK should be the only one you allow connecting anyway!!!).  I believe you havesM to teach Multinet to allow the password challenge to be passed to the client.f- I don't remember what the default is on that.    Rick   Michael Austin wrote:   J > For some reason the SSH service does not know how to deal with anything G > other than a non-expired, working u/p.  I have had this problem many kK > times and it requires someone log into the system and modify the account aE > to nopwdexp, then log in and change your password (or not :) which dH > defeats the purpose of expiring passwords. There is no "your password H > will expire in n-days. Do you want to change it now?".   This is true  > for both Multinet and TCPIP. >  > Michael Austin.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 06:19:05 +0200c* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> Subject: Re: OT: CP Charges...* Message-ID: <2l991rFa5ocsU1@uni-berlin.de>   Nic Clews wrote: > Paul Sture wrote:i >  >> Nic Clews wrote:m   >>E >>> I'm actually more amazed no one has asked why I call myself C.P.  ' >>> Charges... It's been 2 years now...k >> >> >>/ >> OK, it has had me puzzled so I'll bite. Why?o >  > H > I attended the HP IT forum in Manchester at the Lowry Hotel, in 2002, H > presented at by Mary Ellen Fortier and Rich Marcello. To exit the car J > park (I'd driven there) you had to purchase a token from reception. For H > company expenses, I obtained a receipt. It was made out to a "Mr. Car  > Park Charges". >  > Proof: > - > http://www.python.demon.co.uk/cpcharges.gifi >t  G LOL. Another computer application where someone's devised a workaround m for a deficiency.m  F > I didn't submit the expenses, I reckoned the amusement value of the I > document (which I still possess) is worth more than what I paid for it.n > $ > (I know the scan is big - 66k b/w)   ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 05:25:31 +0200y& From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>9 Subject: Re: Question about AS 800 and display resolutiong$ Message-ID: <40EF61AB.41C6@c-lab.de>   Hans Vlems wrote:y >  > Alain, > I > right now I'm not able to check details but there's a "quick and dirty"t	 > method.e9 > Edit SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM and add the commandsl( > posted earlier at the end of the file: > .r > .  > .o >  > $ set verify" > $ decw$server_page_file== 160000  > $ decw$xsize_in_pixels == 1280  > $ decw$ysize_in_pixels == 10248 > $ define/exec/system/nolog decw$server_pixel_depth  248 > $ define/exec/system/nolog decw$server_refresh_rate 75 > $ set noverify > $!< > $ exit                          ! end of SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM  	 But Hans,h? a Trio64 with at most 2MB video RAM and 24 bits depth? No way !hH And then the server might not even have 2MB with the S3 chips integrated+ on the system board, but just 1MB or such. r  D What worked with a plain PCI graphics board with Trio64 and 2MB was:  . $    DEFINE/SYSTEM DECW$SERVER_REFRESH_RATE 74! $    decw$xsize_in_pixels == 1280a! $    decw$ysize_in_pixels == 1024e# $    decw$virtual_pages   == 800000    but only at 8bits color depth.   -- u* Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------   Date: 10 Jul 2004 05:22:41 GMT2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>& Subject: Re: Reading from a LAT device? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-MK3d5x2SFQDv@dave2_os2.home.ours>i  # Chuckle. Thanks for the grins lads.    -- h Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 01:48:52 +0200 B From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>. Subject: VAX Users See the Writing on the Wall7 Message-ID: <40EF2EE4.45ED@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>   F I'm not sure if this link was already mentioned here (link may wrap) :  W http://www.computerworld.com/hardwaretopics/hardware/server/story/0,10801,94314,00.htmlt   --   ME Posted by news://news.nb.nul   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 18:04:13 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>o2 Subject: RE: VAX Users See the Writing on the Wall9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIIEELDIAA.tom@kednos.com>-  I The article didn't explain why there are still so many VAXen.  Why didn't E they migrate to Alpha?  I think that would make an interesting story.n       -----Original Message-----   From: Michiel Erenst7   [mailto:I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid]d%   Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 4:49 PMn   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0   Subject: VAX Users See the Writing on the Wall      H   I'm not sure if this link was already mentioned here (link may wrap) :   D   http://www.computerworld.com/hardwaretopics/hardware/server/story/ 0,10801,94314,00.htmle   --   ME Posted by news://news.nb.nu,   --- & Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.717 / Virus Database: 473 - Release Date: 7/8/2004    ---s& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.717 / Virus Database: 473 - Release Date: 7/8/2004v   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 23:03:32 -0400e2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>2 Subject: RE: VAX Users See the Writing on the Wall. Message-ID: <40EF2444.13062.62CE4B2@localhost>  D > The article didn't explain why there are still so many VAXen.  WhyG > didn't they migrate to Alpha?  I think that would make an interestingm > story.  < There are several reasons, in my experience with CHARON-VAX  migrations:h  6 - Works great, why change it?  (Easily the #1 reason.) - Code is highly VAX-specific.: - Application can't be migrated to Alpha using DECmigrate.@ - Application vendor doesn't exist anymore, or didn't migrate to   Alpha.. - Application uses special or custom hardware.> - Migration to Alpha (or whatever) would require re-validation<   (for military applications, this can cost millions of $$).  C Just today, I spoke with someone considering the "future" of their iF application.  A newer version is available off the shelf.  Of course, D they have to migrate to Sun hardware, buy Enterprise Oracle, and re-E do their customizations by cotracting with the application vendor .  oA It's $200k -- vs less than $20k for CHARON-VAX.  Seems like a no-  brainer to me...    = [Yes, Another Shameless Plug (tm) from your local CHARON-VAX  
 reseller.]  
 --Stan Quayleh Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363-3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.378 ************************