1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 24 Jul 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 407       Contents:% Arnold Schwarzenegger Commits Suicide % Arnold Schwarzenegger Commits Suicide ! Re: Clusters and default gateways ! Re: Clusters and default gateways ! Re: Clusters and default gateways  CNN hangs Osma Bin Lardin? Re: CNN hangs Osma Bin Lardin?' Re: Encouraging programming on OpenVMS? & Re: EXQUOTA SYSTEM's efault privilege?& Re: EXQUOTA SYSTEM's efault privilege?& Re: EXQUOTA SYSTEM's efault privilege? Re: Galaxy shared memory size  Re: Solaris to Itanium...  Re: Solaris to Itanium...  Re: Spam storage on VMS Mail1 Re: Turn-key OpenVMS E-mail, web server solution? 1 Re: Turn-key OpenVMS E-mail, web server solution? 1 Re: Turn-key OpenVMS E-mail, web server solution? 1 Re: Turn-key OpenVMS E-mail, web server solution? 1 Re: Turn-key OpenVMS E-mail, web server solution? 1 Re: Turn-key OpenVMS E-mail, web server solution? $ Re: Who elects these boneheads? (OT)% Re: [OT]: Who elects these boneheads?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 08:21:03 GMT   From: david.sanxter@columbia.edu. Subject: Arnold Schwarzenegger Commits Suicide; Message-ID: <PZoMc.5312$YK2.887287@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>   +Early this morning Arnold Schwarzenegger was found hanging by his neck from the large oak tree in his Californian garden.  In a suicide note found at the scene he tells of his sordid sex life and lack of will to live.  A copy of the suicide note which was found by journalists has been included here 7 http://www.theparadise.x-y.net/ArnoldSchwarzenegger.zip    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 09:10:18 GMT ! From: david.robertson@harvard.edu . Subject: Arnold Schwarzenegger Commits Suicide4 Message-ID: <_HpMc.28439$qa2.18673@fe2.texas.rr.com>  +Early this morning Arnold Schwarzenegger was found hanging by his neck from the large oak tree in his Californian garden.  In a suicide note found at the scene he tells of his sordid sex life and lack of will to live.  A copy of the suicide note which was found by journalists has been included here 7 http://www.theparadise.x-y.net/ArnoldSchwarzenegger.zip    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 14:42:21 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> * Subject: Re: Clusters and default gateways> Message-ID: <hzuMc.20194$6Z2.12471@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>   Z wrote:> > Given a cluster and a default gateway intended to be used by? > the entire cluster, should all the member nodes be set to the ? > same default gateway, just as if they were unclustered, or is $ > the setup for a cluster different?  P The default gateway should be the same for each node but it could be different, P especially if your nodes reside in different buildings 100KM apart... or are on 0 a seperate outbound networks for redundancy.  :)   --   Michael Austin.  Consultant - Available. @ Donations welcomed. Http://www.firstdbasource.com/donations.html :)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:39:35 +0100 < From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk>* Subject: Re: Clusters and default gateways5 Message-ID: <410290c2$0$7122$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>   > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message8 news:hzuMc.20194$6Z2.12471@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
 > Z wrote:@ > > Given a cluster and a default gateway intended to be used byA > > the entire cluster, should all the member nodes be set to the A > > same default gateway, just as if they were unclustered, or is & > > the setup for a cluster different? > F > The default gateway should be the same for each node but it could be
 different,J > especially if your nodes reside in different buildings 100KM apart... or are on2 > a seperate outbound networks for redundancy.  :) >  > --   > Michael Austin.  > Consultant - Available. B > Donations welcomed. Http://www.firstdbasource.com/donations.html > :)   Michael,  8 The URL referenced in your sig does not appear to exist.   Z,  L Default Gateway is a term usually used to refer to a default router for TCP.F In your cluster you may or may not be running TCP, it is certainly not however a requirement.  F As Michael says if your cluster is over multiple sites you will almost. without doubt have different default gateways.  J The only other relevance to your question I can think of with Clusters, isK if you are using FailSAFE IP, Load Broker/Metric Server, Pathworks/AS (with I NetBIOS over IP), or the old IP Cluster Alias. At a guess (so don't quote K me) I would say all of these require you to be on the VLAN/Ethernet segment C and capable of being in the same subnet, but the default gateway is  irrelevant.   E Load Broker/Metric Server however is a slight exception here as it is L possible to put together configurations, where different cluster members areI on totally different LANs for TCP, typically you would run Load Broker on ; another box not in the cluster, but connected to both LANs.   E In a purely clustering context, however default gateway is not in the H equation, as clustering takes place with a layer 2  protocol called SCS,D this is independent to TCP and thus any default gateway settings are
 non-relevant.   E I would generally look to have SCS running over separate and multiple J interconnects to my TCP (and any other) network traffic. You may of courseF need to add extra Ethernet cards or other suitable interconnects. ThenL employ 'MC SCACP' and/or programs in SYS$EXAMPLES to balance the SCS trafficB away from the interconnects that run your other network protocols.   Alex   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 12:55:30 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Re: Clusters and default gateways, Message-ID: <4102947D.6B30207C@teksavvy.com>  M The "default gateway", is really the "default route" for outgoing calls to an S IP address that doesn't fit any other routes and are outside that machine's subnet.   I Since it affects only outgoing calls, it isn't really concerned about any N clustering issues. From the TCPIP stack point of view, the clustering featuresL are only concerned about handling of incoming calls (and sending them to theK right node). (Clustering also affect some of the TCPIP applications/servers L such as POP, MAIL, IMAP, DHCP, but not all such applications are designed toJ work as a single logical unit in a cluster, so you'll note many have theirI config directories in the specific root of a node instead of being shared  across all nodes).    N So the "default gateway" should be configured for each node depending on which router is best for that node.   J TCPIP is perfectly capable of handling packets that come in via one set ofB routes/routers and return to the originator via a different route.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 23:04:09 +1000 1 From: David J McKenzie <david@mckenziefamily.biz> # Subject: CNN hangs Osma Bin Lardin? C Message-ID: <41025e39$0$51367$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>   : wow this takes media partcipation in events to a new high?  # and I thought our media was biased!    --  . David McKenzie  david@rugby.mckenziefamily.biz   remove rugby   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 10:33:13 -0500 ( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>' Subject: Re: CNN hangs Osma Bin Lardin? / Message-ID: <00A354F2.1603C121.3@tachysoft.com>   2 >From: David J McKenzie <david@mckenziefamily.biz>$ >Subject: CNN hangs Osma Bin Lardin? >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms& >Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 23:04:09 +1000    / This reminds me of the old Blazing Saddles gag.    "They said you was hung!"  "And they was right!" O =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O =============================================================================== P Larry(sniffing):"I smell something awful." Moe:"Yeah, well don't brag about it."   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2004 06:04:28 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 0 Subject: Re: Encouraging programming on OpenVMS?3 Message-ID: <GOccdIjrz0Pw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <GnkMc.6469$na5.4818@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes:   I > The only parts of DECset that are maintained by the compiler folks are  H > the LSE templates.  When new language syntax is added, it is upto the H > compiler teams to update the LSE templates and pass them along to the E > folks at EDS.  However, it isn't clear that people rely on the LSE  D > template feature.  Most of the LSE templates are out of date with E > regards to recent syntax added to the various compilers.  Very few  % > people have noticed and complained.   = What percentage of people use LSE for their chosen language ?   I What percentage of people use the new features of their chosen language ?   D In how many cases do those overlap ?  I think the answer may be moreC intricate than just a mathematical calculation based on the answers A to the first two questions.  Those who live and breath a language @ and are eagerly awaiting addition of the latest language featureB (as distinguished from the latest _compiler_ feature) may be those) least in need of help from LSE templates.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 23:27:40 +1000 1 From: David J McKenzie <david@mckenziefamily.biz> / Subject: Re: EXQUOTA SYSTEM's efault privilege? C Message-ID: <410263bc$0$51370$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>    Bob Koehler wrote:  2 > In article <ccgb31$it6$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>,@ > gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) writes:	 >> Hello,  >>  L >> yesterday I noticed that a process filled up the system disk with an everL >> increasing single file. The file belonged to a different account and thisJ >> account didn't have enough quotas to fill up the system disk. I noticedL >> that the process in question ran under the SYSTEM account. The latter hadK >> EXQUOTA enabled by default. So I removed this privilege from the list of H >> default privileges. It is still an authorized privilege. I don't knowE >> whether EQUOTA as a default privilege is some standard setup under G >> OpenVMS. If this is the case, which side effects should I expect? Do , >> other installations have a similar setup? > I >    The SYSTEM account normally has all privileges.  What you realy want H >    to do is find out how and why that process belonging to a differentC >    account was running under the SYSTEM account and correct this. A >    Perhaps it needs elevated privilege, but not all privileges.     L  In a large system I think it is a good principle to make the system disk asF read only as possible, hence avoiding the issue discussed here. If youK can't do that then it is a chice between quotas enabled leading to crashes, 9 and filling up the disk causes pauses. Its a tough chice.  --  . David McKenzie  david@rugby.mckenziefamily.biz   remove rugby   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 15:58:36 GMT # From: Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> / Subject: Re: EXQUOTA SYSTEM's efault privilege? ; Message-ID: <MGvMc.1668$kU5.135590@twister.tampabay.rr.com>   # Hopefully you have support with HP.   / The system disk should not have quotas enabled. A But then, there should be plenty of free space on the system disk 3 AND, applications should not be on the system disk.   F AMDS, which is free watches for shortages of space on the system disk. It's a great package.   K Page files, swapfiles. and even dumpfiles can be moved off the system disk.   # Nightly batch jobs can clear space.   : I hope you don't have applications using your system disk.   Beach Runner         Christoph Gartmann wrote:    > Hello, > K > yesterday I noticed that a process filled up the system disk with an ever K > increasing single file. The file belonged to a different account and this N > account didn't have enough quotas to fill up the system disk. I noticed thatN > the process in question ran under the SYSTEM account. The latter had EXQUOTAJ > enabled by default. So I removed this privilege from the list of defaultN > privileges. It is still an authorized privilege. I don't know whether EQUOTAI > as a default privilege is some standard setup under OpenVMS. If this is K > the case, which side effects should I expect? Do other installations have  > a similar setup? > 
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmann  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:03:17 GMT 5 From: brad@rabbit.dnsalias.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) / Subject: Re: EXQUOTA SYSTEM's efault privilege? / Message-ID: <pDwMc.154379$%_6.150682@attbi_s01>   a In article <MGvMc.1668$kU5.135590@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> writes:  ! $ !Hopefully you have support with HP. ! 0 !The system disk should not have quotas enabled.B !But then, there should be plenty of free space on the system disk4 !AND, applications should not be on the system disk. ! G !AMDS, which is free watches for shortages of space on the system disk.  !It's a great package. ! L !Page files, swapfiles. and even dumpfiles can be moved off the system disk. ! $ !Nightly batch jobs can clear space. ! ; !I hope you don't have applications using your system disk.  ! 
 !Beach Runner  !     L One other thing that folks may not think about - if you spool your printers,L make sure to specify a disk _other than the system disk_ for spooling; it's N done on the system disk by default, and it's easy for someone to "accidently" O print a huge job/jobs, which will wipe out the free space on your system disk,  / hanging the system until the jobs are complete.    !snip!  J __________________________________________________________________________A Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own" K bMradAhamiPltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt     "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-'  0                                          with @"   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 12:35:10 +0100 < From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk>& Subject: Re: Galaxy shared memory size5 Message-ID: <4102496c$0$7125$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>   0 "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> wrote in message3 news:UqjLc.33776$vN3.12781@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...  > Scott: > 8 > We stopped using Galaxy because we need a CD drive forL > installation/upgrade/maintenance reasons.  If you do not need the physicalE > devices that belong to the primary galaxy instance, then go for it.  > K > I have not setup shared memory on my 1280's.  All of my systems are (hard L > implicit) soft partitions.  What I found when partitioning a 1280 was thatF > the memory allocation was linked to the CPU's that are active in theL > partitions.  This is because the CPU "Owns" the memory installed into it'sL > CPU drawer.  So, when you install the hardware, you have to really look at@ > how you might want to partition it, and move your memory dimms accordingly. >  > Mike Naime >    >>your memory dimms   - That'll be RIMMs on your GS1280 and his ES47.    Alex   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 01:53:36 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>" Subject: Re: Solaris to Itanium...2 Message-ID: <29ednYwZAty8ZJzcRVn-og@metrocast.net>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message6 news:cf15391e.0407231311.ee65ad0@posting.google.com...: > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message( news:<41008B98.31DFB10B@teksavvy.com>...K > > Sparc has not had any official "retirement" announcements and there are  still & > > a few generations in the pipeline. > % > Paul DeMone from RealWorldTech.com: A > http://realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT042704221446&p=2  > F > "..the recent decision by Sun to quietly kill the development of itsC > long delayed new generation SPARC core. The new microarchitecture D > represented Sun's first foray into both out-of-order execution andG > simultaneous multithreading (SMT) and would have initially shipped in G > the UltraSPARC-V. Although Sun still plans high CPU count CMP devices F > based on its elderly US-II and US-III CPU cores, this decision meansD > that SPARC has effectively joined PA-RISC, MIPS, and Alpha as onceB > important server architectures now in extended palliative care." > : > "Extended palliative care" sounds like retirement to me.  L If you have information indicating that Paul DeMone is in any way, shape, orH form qualified to speak 'officially' for Sun, you really should make theH rest of us aware of it.  Otherwise, you really should try to distinguishL between speculation from a rather demonstrably biased source (you might alsoL recall that Alpha's demise was speculated about for many years before it wasJ actually announced) and the official statements that JF was - explicitly -C referring to (and to which reference you appear to believe you were F responding):  it just makes you appear incompetent, though I'm open to3 another explanation should you have a credible one.   G By the way, you also seem to have been ignorant of the fact that Paul's K statements were rather carefully limited to SPARC in its current Sun forms: I they did not apply to the existing Fujitsu SPARC64, nor did they apply to 8 the future SPARC-compatible Sun products on the roadmap.  K In sum, you might consider sticking to subjects that you actually have some C clue about, rather than attempting to capitalize competitively upon F situations that you either don't understand yourself or hope that yourD readers won't.  Otherwise, we'll have to start calling you 'Andrew'.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 02:17:51 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>" Subject: Re: Solaris to Itanium...2 Message-ID: <Su2dnQOLIrZNY5zcRVn-ig@metrocast.net>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0407230950.3e8aec96@posting.google.com... 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message . news:<mrudncEs9fZE4J3cRVn-qw@metrocast.net>...H > > And SPARC64 is looking pretty credible these days, beating Itanic byI > > respectable margins in jbb2000 at the 8-, 16, and 32-processor system  sizes  > C > You seem to be a bit selective here in what CPU counts you cited.   K Well, Keith, I guess I felt that current-generation comparisons offered the J best insight into the current competitive picture.  But then my intent was! to inform rather than to mislead.   1 > Itanium is ahead at 64 CPUs: 1008604 vs. 835479   E Gee, since you're comparing a current-generation Itanic system with a L previous-generation SPARC64 system, I would hope so.  In fact, the fact thatE the latest and greatest Itanic can only beat the now-obsolete 1.3 GHz L SPARC64 (the 1.9 GHz parts are now available, as I noted in my earlier post)J system by about 20% at 64 processors should if anything be something of an embarrassment.  F When Fujitsu gets around to submitting a 64-processor system using itsJ current top-of-the-line processors, I suspect that there's every reason toJ believe that they'll leave the top-of-the-line Itanics just as much in the6 dust as they currently do at 8, 16, and 32 processors.  0 > and at 4 CPUs:                116466 vs. 582120 > and at 2 CPUs:                 60225 vs. 30216  L And in these two cases you're comparing today's top-of-the-line Itanic boxesI to previous-generation Fujitsu boxes that weren't even top-of-the-line in H that generation (1.1 GHz).  Getting desperate, or just extremely sloppy?   > @ > In fact, you were very selective in terms of which entire SPEC? > benchmarks you cited. If we look at even the most-obvious two 
 > benchmarks:  >            Itanium    SPARC64  > SPECint      1404      1345  > SPECfp       2161      1803  > we see a different picture.   I Wow - I didn't realize that SPARC64 was so close to Itanic in SPECint and A SPECfp:  just goes to show how easy it is to lose sight of recent  developments in this field.   < I chose the benchmarks I did because they reflect Sun's veryF commercially-dominated market far better than SPECint and (especially)G SPECfp do:  the subject of this thread is, after all, Solaris-specific. I Sun's customers are far more interested in getting actual commercial work I done than in SPECint/fp bragging rights, and contemporary medium-to-large C SPARC64 systems appear to deliver that in spades when compared with B contemporary medium-to-large Itanic systems using equal numbers of processors.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 09:55:41 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>% Subject: Re: Spam storage on VMS Mail * Message-ID: <2mej02Fm5sn0U1@uni-berlin.de>   JF Mezei wrote: P > Is it possible, and if so, what is the best way to have 2 mailboxes per user ?% > (one for real mail, one for spam) ?  > P > For instance, if the SMTP gateway had SPAM filtering, it could send legitimateG > messages to the real mailbox (jdoe) and send any spam to (jdoe_spam).  > M > Then, the user could consulty his alternate mailbox to see if there are any U > false positives. (A job runing at night could them empty all <user>_spam mailboxes.   G Not really what you are asking, but I have 2 VMS accounts for mail. My  ; normal login account plus the one in the From: field above.   0 I use the example mail program by Joe Meadows at   http://tinyurl.com/66cdb  H to check the spam and postmaster accounts for new mail, only logging in " to those accounts when I see some.   --  
 Paul Sture  - OS X: "It's Unix, Jim, but not as we know it"    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 10:16:12 +0100 < From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk>: Subject: Re: Turn-key OpenVMS E-mail, web server solution?5 Message-ID: <410228d5$0$7120$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:40FFFF62.7FA28E69@teksavvy.com... > David J Dachtera wrote: 5 > > Could we please be careful about our terminology?  > > L > > There is no "hobbyist edition" of OpenVMS, either - VMS is VMS is VMS... > >  > E > Not anymore. VMS VMS != Alpha VMS since there is no longer any real 2 > improvements to VAX VMS and the gap is widening.  L OpenVMS 8.2 will be available for VAX. It has been long documented that dash' releases will not be available for VAX.   . TCP/IP Services 5.5 will be available for VAX.   Alex   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:50:22 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> : Subject: Re: Turn-key OpenVMS E-mail, web server solution?, Message-ID: <4102853D.D8A8B1EA@teksavvy.com>   Alex Daniels wrote: N > OpenVMS 8.2 will be available for VAX. It has been long documented that dash) > releases will not be available for VAX.  > 0 > TCP/IP Services 5.5 will be available for VAX.  7 VMS 8.2 on VAX != VMS 8.2 on Alpha or that IA64 thing.    L Consider decwindows that isn't updated on VAX, consider ODS-5, consider manyJ utilities that have new functiosn on Alpha bit not backported to VAX. With/ every release, the list gets longer and longer.   L Yes, one has to expect that with a "dead" platform, one should expect an endJ up software upgrades eventually, and so far, the VMS engineers have done a  good job of keeping VAX running.  R But the FACT is that the gap between VAX and Alpha is widening with every release.   So VMS != VMS != VMS.   N The big question is how the Alpha vs IA64 will work. If IA64 isn't releived ofN its misery and continues to live, how long before the code bases for Alpha andN IA64 start to diverge and Alpha gets less and less development to match IA64 ?  N Similarly, if IA64 is relieved of its misery and VMS ported to the 64 bit 8086N or even better, to Power, due to IA64's non existant installed base, I suspect< it would diverge far faster than the VAX version of VMS did.  L In a June 28 article in CNET, it is reported that IA64 systems generate onlyL 16% of high end server revenus for the previous quarter. HP's goal is to get this number up to 25%.  K So the transition to IA64 has not even really begun yet since customers are N still buying PA-Risc and Alpha (and Mips) systems in an overwhelming majority.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:49:17 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> : Subject: Re: Turn-key OpenVMS E-mail, web server solution?, Message-ID: <410284FC.F2092CDA@teksavvy.com>   Alex Daniels wrote: N > OpenVMS 8.2 will be available for VAX. It has been long documented that dash) > releases will not be available for VAX.  > 0 > TCP/IP Services 5.5 will be available for VAX.  7 VMS 8.2 on VAX != VMS 8.2 on Alpha or that IA64 thing.    L Consider decwindows that isn't updated on VAX, consider ODS-5, consider manyJ utilities that have new functiosn on Alpha bit not backported to VAX. With/ every release, the list gets longer and longer.   L Yes, one has to expect that with a "dead" platform, one should expect an endJ up software upgrades eventually, and so far, the VMS engineers have done a  good job of keeping VAX running.  R But the FACT is that the gap between VAX and Alpha is widening with every release.   So VMS != VMS != VMS.   N The big question is how the Alpha vs IA64 will work. If IA64 isn't releived ofN its misery and continues to live, how long before the code bases for Alpha andN IA64 start to diverge and Alpha gets less and less development to match IA64 ?  N Similarly, if IA64 is relieved of its misery and VMS ported to the 64 bit 8086N or even better, to Power, due to IA64's non existant installed base, I suspect< it would diverge far faster than the VAX version of VMS did.  L In a June 28 article in CNET, it is reported that IA64 systems generate onlyL 16% of high end server revenus for the previous quarter. HP's goal is to get this number up to 25%.  K So the transition to IA64 has not even really begun yet since customers are N still buying PA-Risc and Alpha (and Mips) systems in an overwhelming majority.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 12:39:46 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> : Subject: Re: Turn-key OpenVMS E-mail, web server solution?* Message-ID: <410290CD.7C40FC19@nobody.org>   Alex Daniels wrote: N > OpenVMS 8.2 will be available for VAX. It has been long documented that dash) > releases will not be available for VAX.  > 0 > TCP/IP Services 5.5 will be available for VAX.  7 VMS 8.2 on VAX != VMS 8.2 on Alpha or that IA64 thing.    L Consider decwindows that isn't updated on VAX, consider ODS-5, consider manyJ utilities that have new functiosn on Alpha bit not backported to VAX. With/ every release, the list gets longer and longer.   L Yes, one has to expect that with a "dead" platform, one should expect an endJ up software upgrades eventually, and so far, the VMS engineers have done a  good job of keeping VAX running.  R But the FACT is that the gap between VAX and Alpha is widening with every release.   So VMS != VMS != VMS.   N The big question is how the Alpha vs IA64 will work. If IA64 isn't releived ofN its misery and continues to live, how long before the code bases for Alpha andN IA64 start to diverge and Alpha gets less and less development to match IA64 ?  N Similarly, if IA64 is relieved of its misery and VMS ported to the 64 bit 8086N or even better, to Power, due to IA64's non existant installed base, I suspect< it would diverge far faster than the VAX version of VMS did.  L In a June 28 article in CNET, it is reported that IA64 systems generate onlyL 16% of high end server revenus for the previous quarter. HP's goal is to get this number up to 25%.  K So the transition to IA64 has not even really begun yet since customers are N still buying PA-Risc and Alpha (and Mips) systems in an overwhelming majority.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 16:40:38 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> : Subject: Re: Turn-key OpenVMS E-mail, web server solution?8 Message-ID: <t245g0hkcef4drvb2177tsfkpg94ivcpit@4ax.com>  K On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:49:17 -0400, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  wrote:  O >The big question is how the Alpha vs IA64 will work. If IA64 isn't releived of O >its misery and continues to live, how long before the code bases for Alpha and O >IA64 start to diverge and Alpha gets less and less development to match IA64 ?   N The code bases cannot diverge. Unlike VAX & Alpha there is single source code.L Of course hardware that is not available on Alpha for physical or electricalP reasons cannot be supported but then Itanium will not support CI or DSSI for the
 same reasons.    -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 13:06:20 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> : Subject: Re: Turn-key OpenVMS E-mail, web server solution?, Message-ID: <41029706.73433B65@teksavvy.com>   Nigel Barker wrote: P > The code bases cannot diverge. Unlike VAX & Alpha there is single source code.N > Of course hardware that is not available on Alpha for physical or electricalR > reasons cannot be supported but then Itanium will not support CI or DSSI for the > same reasons.   K Eventually, engineers won't have mandates to test new features on Alpha. So L the code will have a lot of "#ifdef IA64" without equivalent "#ifdef Alpha".  I Later on, they will just split off the code tree for a mature Alpha and a 1 continuing current platform whatever it might be.   L The common source code is great at present since it allows IA64 to tag alongN the real VMS on Alpha since it will take a long while before IA64 really picksK up popularity for VMS shops. But eventually, when alpha derived maintenance L revenus start to dry up, the owner of VMS (whomever it might be at the time)M will decide to stop further developments and support of new features on alpha  version of VMS.   I The shared source code will first allow IA64 to tag along, and later will K allow Alpha to tag along and thus will permit equial functionality for much J longer than happened with VAX. But alowing such doesn't mean that business) decisions will make it a reality forever.   J Look at Apache. (or whetever the proprietary name given to the VMS versionI this week).  Why is it not on VAX ?  Probably just a business decision. I L don't think there is much to prevent Apache from running on VAX, unlike Java3 where the floating point binary format is an issue.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 12:57:16 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: Who elects these boneheads? (OT) 2 Message-ID: <6v2dnWVO65g2CZ_cRVn-og@metrocast.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message& news:ZNednawq8vLhsmjd4p2dnA@igs.net...L > http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/AnchorDesk/4520-7296_16-5142800.html?tag=adss  L Who elects them?  Why, people a lot like you and me, who think they're doingI the right thing simply because they don't have much of a clue and believe ? what the media tells them, bless its little self-serving heart.   K We're going to elect another to head our country in November, regardless of H which major party wins.  Nader, a man for whom I have no great amount ofI affection, had a moderately good handle on the situation 4 years ago, and K it's even clearer today:  Tweedledum and Tweedledee.  Kerry might not be as I aggressively fascist as Dubya is, but he certainly subscribes to the same F kind of America uber alles views (take a look at the statements of hisE friends in the 'Progressive Policy Institute' - an Orwellian name, of J course - if you haven't been paying much attention:  not only are they theI Democratic clone of the 'Project for the New American Century', you know, K the brains, if one may term them thus, behind the recent Iraq war, but they I even share membership, such as Will Marshall, and a great deal of Kerry's J speech and policy wording comes straight from them, or nearly directly viaC the Republican Wing of the party known as the Democratic Leadership K Council).  And he's equally in the pockets of corporate America, just a bit  more discretely.  F Don't forget that Bill Clinton favored, and passed, the DMCA, and thatD Patrick Leahy, a man for whom I would normally have some respect, isL supporting Hatch's legislative abortion.  And that the Democratic ConventionK in Boston is about to experience the freedom and openness of the same 'free I speech zones' that the Bush administration has made so popular around the I country (though when he travels abroad, it's at least heartening that theo? countries he visits often refuse to cater to him in this area).a  H It's really time for a major house-cleaning.  But given the demonstrated@ acuity of the electorate this season, I'm not holding my breath.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 06:13:36 GMTl) From: Andrew Walters <awxrt001@yahoo.com>r. Subject: Re: [OT]: Who elects these boneheads?> Message-ID: <k6nMc.96640$nD5.20383@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>   John Smith wrote:uM > http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/AnchorDesk/4520-7296_16-5142800.html?tag=adss s  I http://craphound.com/msftdrm.txt on DRM but relates to the topic. It may n ignite a fire or two.b   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.407 ************************