1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 01 Jun 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 302       Contents:8 Re: CA'S INGRES DATABASE TO BE RELEASED INTO OPEN SOURCE$ CARTS LUG 9-June-2004 meeting update( Re: CARTS LUG 9-June-2004 meeting update( Re: CARTS LUG 9-June-2004 meeting update Cluster disk mount problem Re: Cluster disk mount problem RE: Cluster disk mount problem Re: failed CXX installation? Re: failed CXX installation?? Re: long, boring explanation of minicopy (and HBVS, in general)  Re: MS Windows Supercomputer Re: MS Windows Supercomputer Re: TECO on Itanium...3 Re: The Inquirer: CA to Open Source Ingres Database   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 20:55:21 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)A Subject: Re: CA'S INGRES DATABASE TO BE RELEASED INTO OPEN SOURCE $ Message-ID: <c9g63p$8oo$3@online.de>  = In article <f30679fb.0405310205.503d4d10@posting.google.com>, 1 fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) writes:    7 > What about bundling Oracle RDB in OpenVMS again ? ;-) 7 > Oracle RDB is for OpenVMS only ! HP and ORacle should 7 > be much more intelligent and make an agreement about  , > licensing with differencial charges etc...  F Looking at the size of his house, his yacht etc, I presume that Larry C Ellison is living quite well off the revenues provided by Rdb; why   should he give them up?   G Of all the questionable management decisions made at DEC in the 1990s,  I this one (selling Rdb to Oracle) seems to make some sense, at least from  H the point of view possible at that point in time.  If DEC had kept Rdb, C VMS would be seen as competition to Oracle, so there would be less  G motivation for them to support (non-Rdb) Oracle on VMS.  I suppose the  I reasoning went that by selling Rdb to Oracle, Oracle wouldn't care which  H database they sell, and DEC could use (non-Rdb) Oracle as an additional H selling point for its systems.  Of course, this whole point became moot F when DEC effectively decided to stop marketing VMS altogether in many  areas.  A Personally, I would have taken a different approach: develop ALL  I products needed for your own OS and people can take it or leave it.  DEC  @ once had a huge array of great software products, all carefully  integrated with one another.  D (For the same reason, I don't understand all the anger at Bill GatesH bundling various stuff with Windows, whether or not there is a technicalE reason for it.  If people don't like his offering, they shouldn't buy D it.  One can't expect him to help the competition.  Of course, if heC somehow unfairly came to hold a near-monopoly (I have no opinion on H this, since I don't have enough information), then this is an issue one H might wish to tackle, but requiring the unbundling of software from the D OS is the wrong place to attack: first, one should address the real I problem and second this argument only makes sense if one has resigned to  I accept the near-monopoly in the first place, in which case I say why the   fuss.)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 23:28:51 GMT , From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net>- Subject: CARTS LUG 9-June-2004 meeting update , Message-ID: <TcPuc.22020$3x.14499@attbi_s54>  < Details now available for the 9-June-2004 CARTS LUG meeting:  " http://eisner.decus.org/lugs/carts   Dave...    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 22:27:58 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 1 Subject: Re: CARTS LUG 9-June-2004 meeting update , Message-ID: <VKOdnR4FsvosdCbdRVn-hQ@igs.net>  7 "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net> wrote in message & news:TcPuc.22020$3x.14499@attbi_s54...> > Details now available for the 9-June-2004 CARTS LUG meeting: > $ > http://eisner.decus.org/lugs/carts >     , General comment about user group meetings...  F This meeting is at the HP office where presumably lots of bandwidth isK available. I'd love to see at some point in the not too far distant future, J all LUG meetings (all chapters) be available real-time via streaming audioG or webcast. It's not hard to do and not costly - all it really needs is I available bandwidth and a Mac or PC with the appropriate software (at the 1 low end of the scale) and a mic / decent web cam.   L The meetings could be archived someplace (Ken, are you listening?) for thoseE who are not in the same general time zone(s) to get during subsequent  days/weeks/months.  	 My $0.02.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 04:55:41 GMT / From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@spyderbyte.com> 1 Subject: Re: CARTS LUG 9-June-2004 meeting update = Message-ID: <h%Tuc.11040$Ef3.596279@twister.southeast.rr.com>    ----- Original Message -----  # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Newsgroups: comp.os.vms # Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 10:27 PM 1 Subject: Re: CARTS LUG 9-June-2004 meeting update      > 9 > "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net> wrote in message ( > news:TcPuc.22020$3x.14499@attbi_s54...@ > > Details now available for the 9-June-2004 CARTS LUG meeting: > > & > > http://eisner.decus.org/lugs/carts > >  > . > General comment about user group meetings... > H > This meeting is at the HP office where presumably lots of bandwidth isE > available. I'd love to see at some point in the not too far distant  future, L > all LUG meetings (all chapters) be available real-time via streaming audioI > or webcast. It's not hard to do and not costly - all it really needs is K > available bandwidth and a Mac or PC with the appropriate software (at the 3 > low end of the scale) and a mic / decent web cam.  > H > The meetings could be archived someplace (Ken, are you listening?) for those G > who are not in the same general time zone(s) to get during subsequent  > days/weeks/months.    4 I'd be glad to archive them and make them available.   Ken    -- Kenneth Farmer <>< kfarmer@openvms.org    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 20:45:31 GMT ) From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> # Subject: Cluster disk mount problem 9 Message-ID: <Xns94FA9639518F7falkarcabca@198.161.157.145>   . I have made some hardware changes to a cluster   OLD configuration: node A:: DS20 6/500-2, 1024 MB node B:: AS 800 5/500,  512 MB node C:: AS 1000 4/200, 256 MB   NEW configuration: node A:: DS20 6/500-2, 1024 MB node B:: DS10 6/600,   1024 MB node C:: AS 800 5/500,  512 MB  F In both old and new configuration, nodes A:: and B:: share a DSSI bus G which connects a quorum disk via HSD05.  (This cluster has was started  , in 1987 and has changed harware many times.)F Also two pairs of SCSI disks are shadowed, one member of each pair on G each node A:: and B::.  Node A:: has a lot of other disks normally not  ! touched by other cluster members. G System disks were simply copied to new hardware, and auotgen performed   using old feedback. 6 Node C:: has 0 votes, only system and page/swap disks.  E Nodes A:: and B:: are in production, node C:: is somewhat redundant,  G fortunately for me, because I have not been able to get it to join the   cluster successfully.   F It will boot okay if I don't mount any disks.  However, when I try to A mount disks that had been previously mounted, I get message like:   6   %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, APP_A mounted on _$250$DIA310: (A)A   %MOUNT-I-REBUILD, volume was improperly dismounted; rebuild in   progress  H In past experience, I would say "no big deal", but now it takes FOREVER J to rebuild and all other activity on the disk in question is locked out.  F Users get upset in a few minutes, I can't wait that long, and so I've 4 had to press the Halt button and try something else.  6 Anyone have any suggestions as to what could be wrong?   --  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca  @ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Road 1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canada  http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4   http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 21:14:14 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)' Subject: Re: Cluster disk mount problem $ Message-ID: <c9g776$8oo$5@online.de>  E In article <Xns94FA9639518F7falkarcabca@198.161.157.145>, Alfred Falk   <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> writes:   8 >   %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, APP_A mounted on _$250$DIA310: (A)C >   %MOUNT-I-REBUILD, volume was improperly dismounted; rebuild in  
 > progress > J > In past experience, I would say "no big deal", but now it takes FOREVER L > to rebuild and all other activity on the disk in question is locked out.  H > Users get upset in a few minutes, I can't wait that long, and so I've 6 > had to press the Halt button and try something else. > 8 > Anyone have any suggestions as to what could be wrong?  E No, but why not mount them /NOREBUILD and then rebuild them later at  F your (and your users') convenience?  Also, once they are mounted, you . might be able to find out what the problem is.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 19:17:31 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> ' Subject: RE: Cluster disk mount problem R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3560EB@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----3 > From: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply=20 - > [mailto:helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de]=20  > Sent: May 31, 2004 5:14 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ) > Subject: Re: Cluster disk mount problem  >=20G > In article <Xns94FA9639518F7falkarcabca@198.161.157.145>, Alfred Falk $ > <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> writes:=20 >=20: > >   %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, APP_A mounted on _$250$DIA310: (A)G > >   %MOUNT-I-REBUILD, volume was improperly dismounted; rebuild in=20  > > progress > >=20@ > > In past experience, I would say "no big deal", but now it=20 > takes FOREVER=20@ > > to rebuild and all other activity on the disk in question=20 > is locked out. =20@ > > Users get upset in a few minutes, I can't wait that long,=20 > and so I've=208 > > had to press the Halt button and try something else. > >=20: > > Anyone have any suggestions as to what could be wrong? >=20I > No, but why not mount them /NOREBUILD and then rebuild them later at=20 J > your (and your users') convenience?  Also, once they are mounted, you=200 > might be able to find out what the problem is. >=20   Alfred,   E Not sure why the rebuild is taking so long, but normally it goes very  quickly.=20   ? Did this just begin to happen or has it been a gradual decline?   < Here is suggestion that I have been using for mount command:  ( $ mount /system $250$DIA310: APP_A APP_A. $ spawn/nowait set volume/rebuild $250$DIA310:( $ mount /system $250$DIA311: APP_B APP_B. $ spawn/nowait set volume/rebuild $250$DIA311:  F You could also do a daily batch job that runs at midnight and does theC following on each volume - you do not need to dismount the driives: ! $ set volume/rebuild $250$DIAxxx:    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20  % "OpenVMS has always had integrity .."  "Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 20:41:30 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)% Subject: Re: failed CXX installation? $ Message-ID: <c9g59q$8oo$1@online.de>  A In article <1040531024958.3379A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos  <JOHN@egh.com> writes:    L > > Installing the latest CXX on VAX, I get the following error (this is theC > > contents of a file which was mentioned in the screen message as . > > containing more information on the error): > > L > > MOVE_FILE CXX$PH_TEMP VMI$ROOT:[CXX$LIB.REFERENCE.CXXL$DEF_H]COMPLEX.H;  > >  > > That's it. > > M > > The same installation on another VAX, the main difference is that it has  J > > 64 MBRAM whereas the installation failed on a 32-MB RAM VAX, from the J > > same CD worked fine.  If it had been a resource problem, I would have  > > expected another message.  > > " > > Any idea what the above means? > D > No, but one resource problen that can prevent the display of errorD > messages is running out of I/O channels.  Check that process quotaI > FILLM is adequate (how's that for vague?) and that the SYSGEN parameter B > CHANNELCNT is at least 15 greater than the largest FILLM on your	 > system.   . FILLM is 300, but CHANNELCNT is only 255.  :-(  F > > Has anyone tried to install the latest DECwindows on VAX from the L > > layered-product CDs?  PCSI hangs, CONTROL-T shows TYPE.  CONTROL-Y gets I > > things moving again and the installation appears to go OK from there.  > E > Double-check the minimum resources required by DECWindows.  I think & > that's where my VAX FILLM came from.  I This was right at the beginning of the installation, though, where it is  ' just writing information to the screen.   J > Also google for the tuning params for BACKUP (listed many times over theE > years); I think that's where the CHANNELCNT >= 15 + MAX(FILLM) came C > from.  There may be other quota and parameter interactions listed  > there.  C I did implement that once, but then probably later increased FILLM.   C Of course, the installation notes often contain such information.   I However, it's a pain to wade through them all.  It would be nice to have  G an official recommendation of the minimum values of account quotas and  H system parameters required for installing software!  Alternatively, the E installation procedure could check these early on and give a warning.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 01:13:08 +0200 B From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>% Subject: Re: failed CXX installation? 7 Message-ID: <40BBBC04.4A5D@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > G > Installing the latest CXX on VAX, I get the following error (this is  E > the contents of a file which was mentioned in the screen message as , > containing more information on the error): >  > MOVE_FILE CXX$PH_TEMP 4 >  VMI$ROOT:[CXX$LIB.REFERENCE.CXXL$DEF_H]COMPLEX.H;   A You asked this same question a month ago. Here is the thread with 
 the answer :  4  http://groups.google.com/groups?th=920c5942c8aa0f52   --   ME Posted by news://news.nb.nu    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 20:46:21 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)H Subject: Re: long, boring explanation of minicopy (and HBVS, in general)$ Message-ID: <c9g5is$8oo$2@online.de>  A In article <1040531030244.3379B-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos  <JOHN@egh.com> writes:    B > If you are simply rebooting a node (i.e. for installing an ECO),@ > don't dismount anything on the other nodes!  (You can do local@ > dismounts (DISMOUNT without the /CLUSTER) in syshutdwn.com, ifB > you want to, but shutdown.com does this anyway, a little later.)@ > Any access to the missing disk(s) should stall in mount-verifyD > until the node comes back up, and enables MSCP serving (very early/ > in the boot process), and then should resume.  > 2 > At least, this is true for non-shadowed disks.     Right.  F > For shadowed disks, I'm not sure if the surviving nodes put the diskC > into mount-verify when they discover the missing disk, or if they F > immediately kick the missing disk out of the shadow set.  I think itE > waits for SHADOW_MBR_TMO seconds (dynamic, default=2 minutes, which F > may be too short for a VAX or a system with a huge amount of memory)A > and then kicks the disk out of the shadow set.  So if you don't F > mind brief hangs while accessing (writing, since reading can proceedI > from the other member?) the shadow set, this is probably the way to go.   D For a quick, planned reboot, I agree.  On the other hand, for a VMS H upgrade (which takes a while), this would be too long.  Also, there are F unplanned outages, when the node doesn't reboot after a crash, a disk 
 goes bad etc.   @ > Another option is to remove only the locally served disks from@ > the shadow-set.  If you initially mount the shadowsets (on theA > Alpha nodes) with /POLICY=MINICOPY, then when the VAX dismounts > > its disks (the members, not the shadowsets), then the Alphas> > should create write bitmaps for the VAX disks, and then do a@ > MINICOPY when the VAX reboots and adds its disks back into theA > shadowsets.  (Not sure if you have to say "/cluster" or if this D > is implied when you remove a disk from a shadowset, since it makes@ > no sense to me to have or for VMS to allow different shadowset! > membership on different nodes.)   F Reading HELP, it appears that the proper DISMOUNT command is enough.  F However, as I mentioned in my previous post, there seem to be several D confusing points.  Also, if the MINICOPY couldn't have been done, I ; would have expected my MOUNT command to fail, as HELP says.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:46:57 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> % Subject: Re: MS Windows Supercomputer , Message-ID: <Y6WdnTptec2N6ibdRVn-jw@igs.net>  ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message 7 news:f30679fb.0405310520.4177b967@posting.google.com...  > Click And believe!!! >  >  > L http://news.com.com/Microsoft+creating+Windows+for+supercomputers/2100-7337_ 3-5219282.html?tag=nefd.lede >  > 6 > Why OpenVMS wouldnt be a SuperComputer OS too ! ;-)    , Because HP doesn't think OpenVMS is 'super'.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 05:07:17 GMT / From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@spyderbyte.com> % Subject: Re: MS Windows Supercomputer = Message-ID: <9aUuc.11041$Ef3.596618@twister.southeast.rr.com>   H I'm in constant contact with many many Linux cluster vendors.  Most alsoH sell Windows cluster solutions.  The demand is EXTREMELY low for Windows	 clusters.    Ken   5 ----------------------------------------------------- " Kenneth R. Farmer <>< 336-736-73761 http://www.OpenVMS.org  |  http://dcl.OpenVMS.org       ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message 7 news:f30679fb.0405310520.4177b967@posting.google.com...  > Click And believe!!! >  >  > h http://news.com.com/Microsoft+creating+Windows+for+supercomputers/2100-7337_3-5219282.html?tag=nefd.lede >  > 6 > Why OpenVMS wouldnt be a SuperComputer OS too ! ;-) >  >  > 	 > Regards  >  > FC   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2004 13:04:17 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: TECO on Itanium... 3 Message-ID: <FujpxelJlqHj@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <00A32A78.A18FB552@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: Z > In article <2hvi06Fh7l51U1@uni-berlin.de>, Tim E Sneddon <tesneddon@bigpond.com> writes:A >>Does any one know if there will be TECO on VMS I64? My employer > >>received their first Itanium last week with VMS V8.1, but it! >>appears to be missing TECO :-(   >>$ >>Larry K., have you heard anything? >> >>Regards, Tim.  > I > Had a brief discussion with Andy Goldstein at the Ambassador roundhouse I > last week and TECO came up in the midst of the conversation.  You might J > need to wait for a point release or two before you see it, if you see it	 > at all.   E Or you might try taking Alpha TECO and applying the Binary Translator  to it.  G It was pointed out to me that the Alpha Instruction Set lacks the nooks G and crannys with which the VAX Instruction Set caused such problems for G VEST.  The Hint Files required before TECO could be successfully VESTed & to Alpha are thus likely not an issue.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 19:51:18 GMT " From: "Tom M" <kryios@comcast.net>< Subject: Re: The Inquirer: CA to Open Source Ingres Database- Message-ID: <W0Muc.22769$pt3.20985@attbi_s03>   H Advantage Ingres.  I think the [Open]Ingres moniker was to highlight the- fact that SQL was available for the database.   & Current version runs on OpenVMS 7.3-2.  C "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message + news:newscache$03ikyh$yp21$1@news.sil.at... G > In article <D6tuc.9465$Ef3.437068@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Kenneth ( Farmer" <kfarmer@spyderbyte.com> writes:2 > >The Inquirer: CA to Open Source Ingres Database, > >http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=16222 > H > Which INGRES ? There is INGRES and OpenINGRES. Both from CAI. And both@ > are/were running on [Open]VMS. They were similar with annoying differences.H > INGRES started at Relational Technology, moved to ASK and then to CAI.= > OpenINGRES stems from INGRES (I think around the ASK time). + > I see no differentiation in this article.  > > > If INGRES (which INGRES) is opened, what is it called then ? >  > --   > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER ' > Network and OpenVMS system specialist  > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.302 ************************