1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 05 Jun 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 310       Contents:L Re: 3X-DEPVZ-AA Permedia 2 graphics (was: 3X-DEPVD-AA Permedia 2 graphics...P Re: 3X-DEPVZ-AA Permedia 2 graphics (was: 3X-DEPVD-AA Permedia 2 graphics... gra8 Re: british airports "freezed" due to "computer problem"8 Re: british airports "freezed" due to "computer problem" Re: CDE not coming up  RE: CDE not coming up  Re: CDE not coming up  RE: CDE not coming up  Re: Cluster disk mount problem* Computer foul-up has bank customers fuming. Re: Computer foul-up has bank customers fuming Re: CSWS 2.0 + TCPware 5.6 ??? Re: few questions  Re: few questions  Free surplus SW Prod Lib kits ! Re: Free surplus SW Prod Lib kits E Re: Is VAX/VMS V1.0/V2.0 available for download in SIMH .TAP format ? - New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ? 1 Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ? 1 Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ? 1 Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ? 1 Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ? 1 Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ? 1 Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ? 1 Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ? 1 Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ? 1 Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ? 1 Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ? 1 Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ? 1 Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ?  Re: NFS how to Re: NFS how to Re: Scripting SET PASSWORD Re: Scripting SET PASSWORD/ Sun To Open Source Solaris ... sort of ...maybe 3 Re: Sun To Open Source Solaris ... sort of ...maybe  Re: VMS Hobbyist licenses  Re: VMS Hobbyist licenses   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 18:40:47 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) U Subject: Re: 3X-DEPVZ-AA Permedia 2 graphics (was: 3X-DEPVD-AA Permedia 2 graphics... 2 Message-ID: <Pm3wc.2999$Dh3.2623@news.cpqcorp.net>  U In article <c9qbcv$5kj$1@sws1.ornl.gov>, "Bobby Coleman" <colemanrl@ornl.gov> writes: K :Thank you for the prompt reply! The video card is a 3X-DEPVZ-AA. According J :to the manual that came with it, the maximum display resolution is 1280 xL :1024. Is this correct and can the same procedure be used for setting it up?  3   AFAIK, yes, the same general configuration steps.   A   Within the resolution limits of the particular card, of course.   L :Also... I tried the sda clue config but it didn't show the video card name.K :It showed a few system parameters... but nothing about the video.  The SRM 1 :output shows a Permedia P2V graphics controller.   K   Yes, that's the 3X-DEPVZ-AA 3DLabs Permedia P2V series -- IIRC, the card  H   you appear to have also has SCSI.  (That's why I had guessed the otherI   card; you'd mentioned the video and network connections, not the SCSI.)     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 18:53:38 -0400 ( From: Bobby Coleman <colemanrl@ornl.gov>Y Subject: Re: 3X-DEPVZ-AA Permedia 2 graphics (was: 3X-DEPVD-AA Permedia 2 graphics... gra ( Message-ID: <40C0FD72.9CA52DCC@ornl.gov>  U Well... hoping not to sound too dumb about this... I followed the steps and it didn't V change anything.  The system boots to 1024 x 768 x 256 colors regardless of what I do.X I've read through all of the FAQ and other documentation that I could find today without= any luck.  I guess I'll have to try again next week sometime.    Bobby    Hoff Hoffman wrote:   W > In article <c9qbcv$5kj$1@sws1.ornl.gov>, "Bobby Coleman" <colemanrl@ornl.gov> writes: M > :Thank you for the prompt reply! The video card is a 3X-DEPVZ-AA. According L > :to the manual that came with it, the maximum display resolution is 1280 xN > :1024. Is this correct and can the same procedure be used for setting it up? > 5 >   AFAIK, yes, the same general configuration steps.  > C >   Within the resolution limits of the particular card, of course.  > N > :Also... I tried the sda clue config but it didn't show the video card name.M > :It showed a few system parameters... but nothing about the video.  The SRM 3 > :output shows a Permedia P2V graphics controller.  > L >   Yes, that's the 3X-DEPVZ-AA 3DLabs Permedia P2V series -- IIRC, the cardJ >   you appear to have also has SCSI.  (That's why I had guessed the otherK >   card; you'd mentioned the video and network connections, not the SCSI.)  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------M >     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G >         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 21:02:28 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> A Subject: Re: british airports "freezed" due to "computer problem" @ Message-ID: <f76b9525cc7431e8e39128515fb13558@news.teranews.com>  # Here is some text about the outage: 7 http://news.airwise.com/stories/2004/06/1086255977.html  ##L  "It was a problem with the flight data processing system. We think it was aK data link. So what we did was to reboot the system and it was fine," said a  NATS spokesman.   G  He said it was a link between an old control center at West Drayton in K Middlesex and a new one at Swanwick in Hampshire that opened in 2002 -- six H years behind schedule and GBP230 million (USD$422 million) over budget.  L  Just months after the GBP600 million (USD$1.1 billion) center at Swanwick K went operational, there were reports that controllers were being plagued by G "ghost" data on their screens making it hard to identify real aircraft.   K  "Swanwick didn't fall over at all. It is quite robust," the NATS spokesman U said. "It gets upgraded regularly. It has proven to be more than robust in the past."  ##   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 10:00:47 +1000  From: HUMBUG <humbug@bit.bucket>A Subject: Re: british airports "freezed" due to "computer problem" , Message-ID: <f2f7p1-fti.ln1@deep.bit.bucket>  Q On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 21:02:28 GMT, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Wrote : % > Here is some text about the outage:   @ And some more... http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/23.41.html#subj1       --     Humbug   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 18:06:52 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: CDE not coming up@ Message-ID: <cab6b7ca97417e4d5e907039a7e44f8b@news.teranews.com>   X-No-Archive: yes   # Wouldn't VIAGRA solve the problem ?      (sorry, it is friday)    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 18:30:27 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: RE: CDE not coming up0 Message-ID: <7d3wc.2997$Dh3.27@news.cpqcorp.net>  _ In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIAENKDFAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: F :Always glad to help out:-)  Actually I did have a look, but maybe notH :thoroughly enough.  I have two totally identical systems, XP1000's bothB :with two pci cards in same positions on both, the ELSA gloria and< :KZPBA-CY diff scsi controller.  The diff between the two is$ :? FREJA  ? VMS V7.3     ? MEMBER  ?$ :? ODIN   ? VMS V7.3-1   ? MEMBER  ?  G   Looks to be either different ELSA GLoria Synergy cards, or a missing  E   ECO or such, or bad hardware.  I'll assume that both the DECwindows E   server bits and the DECwindows Motif/CDE software kit are installed    on both systems, of course.   . :%SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHDEV, no such device available  9   The usual troubleshooting for that error is in the FAQ:   )     Why is DECwindows Motif not starting?   F   "Debugging 101" says to swap the controllers, and see if the problem   moves.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 18:31:05 GMT - From: hoffman@xdelta.hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: CDE not coming up1 Message-ID: <Jd3wc.2998$Dh3.805@news.cpqcorp.net>   U In article <c9q91c026k2@enews4.newsguy.com>, Tom Crabtree <tccrab@sunset.net> writes: % :Insert OpenVMS disk into CDRom Drive 4 :@(CDRom Disk Drive identifier)[elsa.kit]install.com :reboot  :  :Problem solved.  (   That should not be required on V7.3-1.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 11:31:36 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: CDE not coming up9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIIEOCDFAA.tom@kednos.com>   D Well, that unearthed another problem, viz., the cd won't stay in, so8 maybe I dislodged something when I installed the drives.     -----Original Message-----/   From: Tom Crabtree [mailto:tccrab@sunset.net] %   Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 9:47 AM    To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com     Subject: Re: CDE not coming up    &   Insert OpenVMS disk into CDRom Drive5   @(CDRom Disk Drive identifier)[elsa.kit]install.com    reboot     Problem solved.      Tom Linden wrote: I   > Always glad to help out:-)  Actually I did have a look, but maybe not K   > thoroughly enough.  I have two totally identical systems, XP1000's both E   > with two pci cards in same positions on both, the ELSA gloria and ?   > KZPBA-CY diff scsi controller.  The diff between the two is '   > ? FREJA  ? VMS V7.3     ? MEMBER  ? '   > ? ODIN   ? VMS V7.3-1   ? MEMBER  ?    > F   > Now what is interesing  is that CDE comes up on FREJA but not ODIN   >    > FREJA> sho dev g   > 2   > Device                  Device           Error2   >  Name                   Status           Count2   > GZA0:                   Online               0   > ODIN> sho dev g 1   > %SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHDEV, no such device available    > D   > The controller is good, because I can boot Redhat on same system   >    >     >   -----Original Message-----0   >   From: Hoff Hoffman [mailto:hoff@hp.nospam])   >   Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 8:50 AM    >   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com $   >   Subject: Re: CDE not coming up   >    > D   >   In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIKEMKDFAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom&   >   Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:H   >   :Moved the system drive from PWS600 to an XP1000 and put back intoH   >   :cluster in place of the PWS600  The former had Diamond MultimediaK   >   :controller and the latter Elsa Gloria.  Is the latter not recognized 5   >   :by OpenVMS or is something else perhaps amiss?    > L   >     Tom's actually an audience plant here, and specifically phrasing his>   >     question in a way that that allows me to reference the   OpenVMS FAQ. :-)C   >     In particular, sections on the ELSA GLoria Synergy graphics    controllerH   >     support, on DECwindows troubleshooting, and on the configurationL   >     information that can be included when posting questions and that canL   >     particularly allow faster (and more targeted) answers to a question.L   >     Details such as the OpenVMS and DECwindows versions, obviously.  TomK   >     undoubtedly also knows that the current ECO kits for the particular G   >     OpenVMS release should be applied, but has craftily phrased his 9   >     particular question to allow me to include an ECO    reference, too.  :-)1   >     Thank you, Tom!  All good questions!  :-)    > 6   >    ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h>#   >   ----------------------------- 7   >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ --    >   www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq 8   >    --------------------------- pure personal opinion!   >   --------------------------- K   >           Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    > 	   >   --- ,   >   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.@   >   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).E   >   Version: 6.0.680 / Virus Database: 442 - Release Date: 5/9/2004    >    > --- *   > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.>   > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).C   > Version: 6.0.680 / Virus Database: 442 - Release Date: 5/9/2004    >      --- (   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A   Version: 6.0.680 / Virus Database: 442 - Release Date: 5/9/2004    --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.680 / Virus Database: 442 - Release Date: 5/9/2004    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 18:33:39 GMT ) From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> ' Subject: Re: Cluster disk mount problem 9 Message-ID: <Xns94FE7FC5F2EC8falkarcabca@198.161.157.145>   - Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in  news:c9p9ld$el$1@lore.csc.com:     > Alfred Falk wrote: >>  2 >> Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in( >> news:87d64hwss4.fsf@prep.synonet.com: >>  0 >> > Alfred Falk <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> writes: >> >H >> >> Everything seems okay now, but still the rebuild time I was seeing; >> >> - measured in HOURS - suggests something wrong to me.  >> >C >> > That sugests your network is having, or had, problems. Time to  >> > check it. >>  E >> What would we be looking for?  (Network manager thinks it's okay.)  > : >                                                   ^^^^^^ > $ > Go into SDA on the running system: >  > $ ANAL/SYS >  > SDA> SH LAN/COU  > C > You'll have a few pages of counters for each protocol (SCA is the G > cluster protocol) but you'll see IP, DECnet, whatever is running, PER D > CARD if you have multiple network cards. I've not seen and I'm notF > aware of detailed descriptions for the fields displayed, but I think3 > the error fields are relatively self explanatory.  > C > Keep two printouts of the counters, say an hour apart, and if the C > "error" fields increase, hand the paperwork to your local notwork $ > disoperative, and tell 'em go fix!  G Current symptom:  erratically bad performance at times.  At bad times I H have seen processes show up either RWSCS or PFW.  (Latter is puzzling toB me as physical memory is more than sufficient and working sets are adequate.)     The only odd item is I see from    SDA> SHOW LAN COUNTER  is   CRC errors           10642& (All other VMS nodes show 0 for this.)  D Network manager has noticed "Late collision errors" for this node onE CISCO switch.  Description suggests hardware problem, possibly cables C and connectors.  Latter is unlikely.  I suppose I can try replacing  DE600 with old DE500.    --  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca  @ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Road 1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canada  http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4   http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 00:43:15 GMT " From: Lee <lytmah@telusplanet.net>3 Subject: Computer foul-up has bank customers fuming + Message-ID: <DG8wc.16269$DV4.8323@clgrps13>    Here some interesting news. ) Another black eye for computer technology   f http://www.canada.com/edmonton/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=1b790ee7-570f-480b-af26-069bbe7035e5   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 04:14:24 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 7 Subject: Re: Computer foul-up has bank customers fuming @ Message-ID: <c8ce6db5859fc3d14b4bdc724d3a36cf@news.teranews.com>   Tom Linden wrote:  >  > So what's your point?   L No matter how fancy a disaster recovery plan you may have at the OS and diskM level, when your application screws up, you're up the creek perhaps even more ( if it takes time to realise the foul up.  L The Royal Bank  had one of the most stable and mature IT departments. For asM much as they were arrogant towards customers, when they introduced a service, + it was usually well done and very reliable.   K For them to have a foul up lasting a whole week, preventing direct deposits J (depriving customers of their money), blocking  debit transactions becauseJ pension/paychecks were not deposited into customer's accounts etc etc is aM HUGE problem for a bank. This isn't an outage of a few hours, it is something  lasting almost a whole week.  L It is also about IT change management. Banks in canada have stringent changeG management procedures that include rollback procedures in case a change 9 doesn't go as planned. In this case, this clearly failed.   M Is this part of a trend where windows weenies are also invading banks and are C destroying all the "red tape" that was change management ? (yes, to L programmers and system managers, change management procedures and committessT are seen as red tape, but they are a necessary evil to ensure stability of systems).  N Banks' only product is information. And they live and die with confidence fromG customers. Their reliance on IT is thus far greater than manufacturers,  restaurants etc.    L There have been many examples of banks failing inside a week after consumersL lost confidence in the bank. (including the Mercantile Bank in canada in theK 1980s). Should the Royal Bank cease to exist in a week or two (probably not L likely, but still a possibility), who will be held responsible ? Will the IT director be held responsible ?  M When an organisation relies so heavily on IT, taking chances on procedures or 4 low quality systems can jeoperdize its own survival.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2004 15:32:05 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)' Subject: Re: CSWS 2.0 + TCPware 5.6 ??? = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0406041432.195b42cf@posting.google.com>   b "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com> wrote in message news:<6Z0wc.2981$X63.514@news.cpqcorp.net>...7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 9 > news:d7791aa1.0406040516.5a759b1d@posting.google.com... 8 > > "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message; >  news:<VdOvc.113141$tb4.4434480@news20.bellglobal.com>... 	 > >[snip] F > > that is why we are still on Purveyor, and why we may port PurveyorD > > to itanium ... I don't think the apache group tests with TCPware? > > and multinet, only ucx, and that is a potential problem ...  > J > OK, Bob, I've sat back quietly while you've made statements like this in8 > the past, but I'm calling you on the carpet this time. > E > We work closely with Process Software to ensure that Apache runs on I > Multinet and TCPware before we ship. It's simply the right thing to do.  > K > Whatever is causing Neil's problem will be corrected. Neil should contact J > Process Software to make sure he's up to the required rev level. If theyK > can't resolve the problem, they'll contact us and we'll work with them to  > resolve the problem. > N > People in this forum do not want to read "I don't think..." posts. They wantD > facts that will help them resolve whatever problem they're having. >  > Rick Barry > OpenVMS System Software Group  > Hewlett-Packard Company  > Nashua, NH  @ and the facts are we tried to run apache with TCPware before and? had broken pipes taking down the webserver ... we lost a lot of = time going from purveyor to apache, then after testing w/o an : issue, having this pop up on our production site ... if we? would have waited for you or Process beyond the week of time we < spent gathering data and trying to help both of you find the= problem, we would have been out of business ... we run online < ordering and services and we can't be down a minute, and the> call us and we'll work on it approach doesn't cut the mustard.? I was told by your group then that you only test on ucx ... now = maybe that has changed, but unless you thoroughly test on all = 3 platforms BEFORE you release, all it takes is a broken pipe < to shut down a customers site ... maybe this is how it works9 in the garbage world of unix/linux/windoze, but for a vms 0 customer who demands 24X7, THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 18:03:36 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>  Subject: Re: few questions< Message-ID: <YP2wc.4512$2d5.4203@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>  
 gdb wrote:   > EHLO > J > I'm trying to get work at a company which uses VMS(probably OpenVMS) as G > a platform for it's software. I use Linux for over 4 years. Also had  C > some minor contact with BSDs. Can you tell me what are the major  H > differences between VMS and Linux? And more precise: Can I run VMS on K > x86?, What are the .bck files which i downloaded as cd images...? and if  = > they are what software should I use to put them on the cds? F > Sorry for the sky high lame level of this but I don't know anything - > about VMS yet. Links will be appreciated :]  >  > gdb   ' First... you are in way over your head.   H VMS is NOT Unix!! Period. and does not run on x86. (Itanium in the near F future, but not yet). VMS runs on "mini-mainframe" on both VAX (CISC) E and Alpha (RISC) processors developed by DEC(Digital Equipment Corp)  G ->Compaq-->HP.  BCK  files are from an OpenVMS BACKUP save set. BACKUP  I is a program to save your data to disk or tape.  Like a zip, but with no  G compression.  You can copy them to a CD, but, unless you create the CD   correctly, VMS won't read it.    Start with the FAQ. & << http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq >>   Start with the DocumentationF << http://h71000.www7.hp.com/DOC/72final/4511/4511pro_contents.html >>  G Hmmmm. quite interesting... a kid with only Linux experience can get a  D VMS job, but a VMS guy with 20 years experience in VMS and Unix and G Linux and SCO Unix and Solaris and AIX and Database and Networks and..    and... and... can't get a job...  . no, I'm not bitter, just greatly annoyed... :)   Michael.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2004 17:16:58 -0700 - From: soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume)  Subject: Re: few questions= Message-ID: <f401eb7f.0406041616.255bd228@posting.google.com>    "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:I > Those are all variations of Unix, VMS is not even remotely like Unix.   G > Here is a site that has links to public systems that you can connect  J > into to 'look' around but IMHO, you will not be able to get up to speed 9 > as a qualified VMS system manager or coder, over-night:   B Barry, yes and no.  I have to respectfully disagree.  UNIX and VMSB perform mostly the same functionality but do it in a different wayD (e.g.: filesystem, user interface, etcetera).  Take the command line interface for instance:   
 help = man directory = ls
 type = cat	 edit = vi 	 copy = cp  delete = rm  set default = cd
 and so forth   ? Most of these can be shorted to three letters.  While there are E fundamental differences on how they work (creating some usage nuances F that will need to be learned), a UNIX knowledgeable user/developer canD easily move around an OpenVMS system by simply using HELP.  Think of- it like another language (i.e.: blau = blue).   < If you are a C developer, all your basic C is there.  If theE application you're working on was ported from UNIX, then no problem.  @ If it was home grown on OpenVMS then you might encounter OpenVMSF System Services and other libraries.  These are not that hard to learn> especially with the absolutely wonderful documentation that is
 available.   Oh yea, avoid forks  :)  J > Welcome as a hobbyist interest, but you're over your head if you expect / > to get a VMS related job anytime real soon...   + Let's not scare away future advocates.  :0)    JMOD   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 10:50:05 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> & Subject: Free surplus SW Prod Lib kits9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIGEOADFAA.tom@kednos.com>    Late spring housecleaning   8 Have a bunch, mostly unopened, going back several years.% Send me your address if you want 'em.    But wait, ther is more!    7.3-2 OpenVMS complete Kit 8.1 Itanium eval Kit   Also Tru64 Kits.   --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.680 / Virus Database: 442 - Release Date: 5/9/2004    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2004 15:26:09 -0700 & From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)* Subject: Re: Free surplus SW Prod Lib kits= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0406041426.6189246c@posting.google.com>   d "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIGEOADFAA.tom@kednos.com>... > Late spring housecleaning  > : > Have a bunch, mostly unopened, going back several years.' > Send me your address if you want 'em.   ? Heh!  I'm looking at my vari-colored wall of (almost) every VAX F CONDIST from late 1990 to September 2001, and Alpha CONDIST from MarchD 1997 to present, plus most of the VAX and Alpha VMS binaries kits onE TK50 and CDs... we've moved three times, each time the powers that be D tell me to trim them down, and each time I just can't make myself do: it, move them myself, and sneak them back onto my shelves.  B Maybe I should lock them up in the media vault... who knows, maybeF they'll be rare and valuable someday!  At least they are all real CDs,E not CD-Rs so they should remain usable for quite a long time in their 
 packaging.   Rich Jordan  CCS    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 16:39:05 -0500 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> N Subject: Re: Is VAX/VMS V1.0/V2.0 available for download in SIMH .TAP format ?3 Message-ID: <40C0EBF9.AB0C9ED9@applied-synergy.com>    Hans Vlems wrote:  > 9 > "Wayne Sewell" <wayne@tachysoft.com> schreef in bericht + > news:00A32C7C.37800051.1@tachysoft.com... G > > >From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)  > > >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsM > > >Subject: Is VAX/VMS V1.0/V2.0 available for download in SIMH .TAP format  > ? $ > > >Date: 2 Jun 2004 11:52:35 -0600  > > >Organization: Encompasserve > > >Lines: 148 > > >Message-ID: <tpzZJpZJnLtD@eisner.encompasserve.org> > > > ' > > >No, I haven't finally lost it. :-)  > > > L > > >I never ran the early versions of VMS, and I am curious to see how they > > >differ from today's VMS.  > > > : > > >As for the legalities, this is for hobbyist use only. > > >  > > M > > Does simh support pdp compatibility mode?  The very early versions of vms  > had a M > > lot of system utilities that ran in compatibility mode rather than native  > vax. > > L > No, simh emulates a VAX 3900. The PDP-11 instruction set is present in the > VAX 11/7nn6 > models only, including the VAX 8600 and 8650 models.N > The VAX 3900 needs at the earliest VMS 5.2 or perhaps 5.3 to boot. My memory > is awfullyI > vague but I remember that the VAX 8250 and 8350 being current when V5.0 
 > arrived.F > The VAX(station) 2000 was current and possibly early versions of the > VAXstation 3100 series.      To the best of my recollection:   & The VAXstation 2000 required VMS 4.5B.1 The VAXstation 3100-30 and -40 required VMS 5.1B.   E The VAX 3900 is a KA655.  KA650 support was added in VMS 4.7A.  It is G quite possible that a VAX 3900 can boot 4.7A (and be misidentified as a  VAX 3500 series.)   G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 17:59:10 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ?@ Message-ID: <8c3cdd4facdb5877428d4a924e388082@news.teranews.com>  9 (Lets assume for the moment that IA64 survives 13 years).     N I can run the latest version of VAX-VMS on my teenage allmighty Microvax II. IN think that it is simply because only a couple of support files specific to theJ MVII are needed early in the boot, and after that, VMS runs transparently. (Correct ?)   N However, with compilers so tighly tied to the IA64 CPU to take advatage of CPUC changes/imrprovemenst for performance, will a version of VMS OS and L applications compiled for Itanium 4  with Itanium 4 compilers be able to runJ on Merced boxes ? (eg: in the future, will binaries for recent IA64s still work on much older IA64s ?)   J Won't IA64 compilers in the future generate code that assumes that certainG tricks are possible on IA64 ? What happens when that code executes on a K generation of IA64 that precedes the addition of those performance tricks ?   M Or is IA64 now a "stable" architectire with no more changes coming in the way G compilers generate code to provide about half the performance of IA64 ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 11:53:24 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> : Subject: Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ?' Message-ID: <40C0C524.4070805@MMaz.com>    JF Mezei wrote:   : >(Lets assume for the moment that IA64 survives 13 years). >  > O >I can run the latest version of VAX-VMS on my teenage allmighty Microvax II. I O >think that it is simply because only a couple of support files specific to the K >MVII are needed early in the boot, and after that, VMS runs transparently.  >(Correct ?) > O >However, with compilers so tighly tied to the IA64 CPU to take advatage of CPU D >changes/imrprovemenst for performance, will a version of VMS OS andM >applications compiled for Itanium 4  with Itanium 4 compilers be able to run K >on Merced boxes ? (eg: in the future, will binaries for recent IA64s still  >work on much older IA64s ?) > K >Won't IA64 compilers in the future generate code that assumes that certain H >tricks are possible on IA64 ? What happens when that code executes on aL >generation of IA64 that precedes the addition of those performance tricks ? > N >Or is IA64 now a "stable" architectire with no more changes coming in the wayH >compilers generate code to provide about half the performance of IA64 ? >    > B I'm not a Itanic fan, in fact I think it is the 21st centuries IT C disaster just wanting to happen.  None the less, the same problems  B impacted VAX & Alpha too, but this was dealt with at the hardware G abstraction layer, so if Intel/HP use a HAL for IA64 to protect the OS  A from odd differences in chipsets that basically perform the same  @ function, it shouldn't be an issue...  If they don't then prior D discussions of binary portability may come into play, but the other D factor is that over 13 years, when considering how much VMS changes G during the past decades, we've 'lost' binary portability several times  < with new hardware but also at major dot releases when major + functionality was integrated into the OS...      Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 20:19:47 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"): Subject: Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ?6 Message-ID: <00A32DBF.12546394@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  p In article <8c3cdd4facdb5877428d4a924e388082@news.teranews.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:: >(Lets assume for the moment that IA64 survives 13 years). >  > O >I can run the latest version of VAX-VMS on my teenage allmighty Microvax II. I O >think that it is simply because only a couple of support files specific to the K >MVII are needed early in the boot, and after that, VMS runs transparently.  >(Correct ?) > O >However, with compilers so tighly tied to the IA64 CPU to take advatage of CPU D >changes/imrprovemenst for performance, will a version of VMS OS andM >applications compiled for Itanium 4  with Itanium 4 compilers be able to runSK >on Merced boxes ? (eg: in the future, will binaries for recent IA64s stillm >work on much older IA64s ?) > K >Won't IA64 compilers in the future generate code that assumes that certain H >tricks are possible on IA64 ? What happens when that code executes on aL >generation of IA64 that precedes the addition of those performance tricks ? > N >Or is IA64 now a "stable" architectire with no more changes coming in the wayH >compilers generate code to provide about half the performance of IA64 ?  O I have no information about anybody's plans for this aspect of IA64 compilers. ?K However, I note that the way the issue was addressed on Alpha was to have a L compiler option to generate code that took advantage of new features in EV56L (and up), and wouldn't run on older Alphas.  So if you want to generate codeM that can run on the oldest Alphas, you can; if you want to generate code thatdN runs  faster on newer Alphas, you can, but if you want to do both, you have toJ provide two separate images (which is what Rdb development does, if memory serves).   -- Alane --  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-30564M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025oO ===============================================================================e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 20:34:01 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>e: Subject: Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ?@ Message-ID: <92a007a41cf77be79f451a0a48fe0984@news.teranews.com>  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:M > However, I note that the way the issue was addressed on Alpha was to have afN > compiler option to generate code that took advantage of new features in EV56. > (and up), and wouldn't run on older Alphas.   J I was under the impression that it was just a bug in the compiler that wasL asleep until EV6* came along, at which point they fixed the compiler to stopN generating the erroneous code that worked by chance on EV5* but didn't on 6*.   K When one orders VMS and layered products CDs for Alpha, are there differenteH part numbers for those compiled for prior to EV6* and those after EV6* ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 19:20:32 GMTe- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>i: Subject: Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ?@ Message-ID: <a68cc37c18d7b41605fccd826913c32c@news.teranews.com>   "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:E > factor is that over 13 years, when considering how much VMS changes H > during the past decades, we've 'lost' binary portability several times= > with new hardware but also at major dot releases when major - > functionality was integrated into the OS...-  K No, for VAX, any application compiled for VAX will work on any VAX providediI there is software compatibility with OS version. In other words, software-L compiled on and for a more recent VAX will work on older vaxes as well. (ok,$ except for the odd ones like FTvax).  K For instance, I can run on my allmighty 17 year old Microvax II current VAX0K VMS releases and software because compilers are not targetted at a specific-M VAX chipset, so even though my hardware is old, I can put new software on it.s  M Similarly, while there was a hickup on Alpha with some older software needingtI to be recompiled to run on new Alpha generation, once recompiled with theb7 compiler bug fix, it would run on the older generation.   M However, my question pertains to the fact that compilers for IA64 are tightlywH coupled to each generation of IA64. For instance, I recall the engineersJ pointing out that the veryu first boot of VMS was very slow because it hadA been built with Merced compilers an not the generation it was on.e  G Question then becomes what happens to software compiled with the latestlL generation compilers designed for the latest generation IA64 when you try to# run it on much older IA64 machines.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 23:34:22 +0200n9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>c: Subject: Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ?' Message-ID: <40C0EADE.8DF19911@aaa.com>n  G I don't think Alan was talking about the OS, he was talking about apps. ? Like Rdb, where there are two separate "install-kits" depending  on what HW you have...  	 Jan-Erik.a     JF Mezei wrote:s > , > Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:O > > However, I note that the way the issue was addressed on Alpha was to have a P > > compiler option to generate code that took advantage of new features in EV56/ > > (and up), and wouldn't run on older Alphas.  > L > I was under the impression that it was just a bug in the compiler that wasN > asleep until EV6* came along, at which point they fixed the compiler to stopO > generating the erroneous code that worked by chance on EV5* but didn't on 6*.- > M > When one orders VMS and layered products CDs for Alpha, are there differenteJ > part numbers for those compiled for prior to EV6* and those after EV6* ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 15:50:53 -0600w4 From: Norman Lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>: Subject: Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ?* Message-ID: <40C0EEBD.78128BAA@oracle.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > , > Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:O > > However, I note that the way the issue was addressed on Alpha was to have abP > > compiler option to generate code that took advantage of new features in EV56/ > > (and up), and wouldn't run on older Alphas.r > L > I was under the impression that it was just a bug in the compiler that wasN > asleep until EV6* came along, at which point they fixed the compiler to stopO > generating the erroneous code that worked by chance on EV5* but didn't on 6*.   + 	nope.  /ARCH allows you to indicate to thei2 compiler what the minimum target platform is.  so,2 for example, you'd specify /ARCH=EV6 if you wanted3 to run on EV6 and later CPUs (quad issue schedulingb2 plus EV6 and later specific instructions).  If you4 specify /ARCH=EV56, you'd allow the compiler to know5 that you're gonna run on a machine with the byte-word  instructions, and so on.  M > When one orders VMS and layered products CDs for Alpha, are there different1J > part numbers for those compiled for prior to EV6* and those after EV6* ?  - 	assuming you're running a relatively current:6 version of VMS, take a look at DECC$SHR* in SYS$SHARE.4 There is one for EV56 and later CPUs and one for EV54 and earlier.  VMS picks the correct one at boot time  for the system it is running on.- 	Oracle Rdb, for example, ships two kits with73 each release.  On 'generic' for all Alpha platformse2 and one 'targeted' for EV56 and later CPUs.  This 5 'targeted' kit has (most all of the) modules compiled- /ARCH=EV56/OPT=...TUNE=EV67.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 22:57:43 +0100< From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk>: Subject: Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ?* Message-ID: <c9qr8s$23ju$1@news.wplus.net>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message: news:8c3cdd4facdb5877428d4a924e388082@news.teranews.com...; > (Lets assume for the moment that IA64 survives 13 years)., >e >SJ > I can run the latest version of VAX-VMS on my teenage allmighty Microvax II.E <SNIP>    K 7.2 is the last supported version of VMS for the MicroVAX II , 8.2 will noth be supported on it.r   Alex   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 23:48:32 GMTa- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>E: Subject: Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ?@ Message-ID: <39717ff8ed363668d04baefabe6c2f51@news.teranews.com>   Norman Lastovica wrote:o6 >         assuming you're running a relatively current8 > version of VMS, take a look at DECC$SHR* in SYS$SHARE.6 > There is one for EV56 and later CPUs and one for EV56 > and earlier.  VMS picks the correct one at boot time" > for the system it is running on.  M So if one distributes freeware, one should generate multiple object files and-0 link the one for the specific version of Alpha ?  M I compiled my recent version of WHOIS on an unknown Alpha chip on the net. SooH I guess I should research this and find out what EV version it is on, or+ target the lowest common denominator then ?m   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 23:51:01 GMTs- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>4: Subject: Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ?@ Message-ID: <57ed8e44369aa6ec559b6c957c4072da@news.teranews.com>   Alex Daniels wrote:mM > 7.2 is the last supported version of VMS for the MicroVAX II , 8.2 will not  > be supported on it.-  ( Will not be supported, or will not run ?  M Considering that VAX-VMS is an almost mature product with little improvementsnC being made, I wonder why they would bother desupporting a platform.-  L Considering I have a 10 gig drive on my all mighty MV-II and a limited 1 gigJ drive on a more recent 3100-30 (although it is teenage this year I think),E you'd think that the vaxstation 3100s would be desupported before them venerable MV-II.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2004 02:18:51 GMTr From: healyzh@aracnet.com : Subject: Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ?+ Message-ID: <c9raib0bks@enews4.newsguy.com>s  . JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: > Alex Daniels wrote:yO > > 7.2 is the last supported version of VMS for the MicroVAX II , 8.2 will notm > > be supported on it.V  * > Will not be supported, or will not run ?  O > Considering that VAX-VMS is an almost mature product with little improvementswE > being made, I wonder why they would bother desupporting a platform.   L Just becuase something is not supported doesn't mean that it won't run, as IK understand it, 7.3 runs on a MicroVAX II.  Officially supporting a platformnK costs money, I really doubt there are enough KA630 based systems that stillRE have support contracts to make spending that money a wise investment.   F As for the question of 8.2, a worthwhile question will be, what is theI memory footprint?  As I understand it, that is one of the reasons variouseE other systems are no longer supported.  With only 16MB RAM max, it is  getting to be a tight fit.  N > Considering I have a 10 gig drive on my all mighty MV-II and a limited 1 gigL > drive on a more recent 3100-30 (although it is teenage this year I think),G > you'd think that the vaxstation 3100s would be desupported before thef > venerable MV-II.  K Hard Disk space is less of an issue than RAM, after all you can always bootbJ into a cluster.  How many VAXstation 3100's only had a disk to use as swap space?  K BTW, is there a list of what will be supported on 8.2?  How much longer arewI the DEC 3000's and some of the other early Alpha's going to be supported?    			Zane    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 01:46:51 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>: Subject: Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ?4 Message-ID: <1040605014233.404D-100000@Ives.egh.com>  # On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, JF Mezei wrote:e   > Norman Lastovica wrote: 8 > >         assuming you're running a relatively current: > > version of VMS, take a look at DECC$SHR* in SYS$SHARE.8 > > There is one for EV56 and later CPUs and one for EV58 > > and earlier.  VMS picks the correct one at boot time$ > > for the system it is running on. > O > So if one distributes freeware, one should generate multiple object files and 2 > link the one for the specific version of Alpha ? > O > I compiled my recent version of WHOIS on an unknown Alpha chip on the net. SokJ > I guess I should research this and find out what EV version it is on, or- > target the lowest common denominator then ?   + In unless performance is critical, compile c9 /OPTIMIZE=TUNE=GENERIC/ARCH=GENERIC.  This is the defaultm6 for both BASIC and CC, and probably for all compilers.  9 Then it will run with reasonable performance on anything.-  7 I'm certain performance of WHOIS is not critical, sinceS it is certainly network-bound.     --   John Santos- Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 01:41:58 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>: Subject: Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ?4 Message-ID: <1040605011550.404C-100000@Ives.egh.com>  # On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, JF Mezei wrote:/  , > Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:O > > However, I note that the way the issue was addressed on Alpha was to have atP > > compiler option to generate code that took advantage of new features in EV560 > > (and up), and wouldn't run on older Alphas.  > L > I was under the impression that it was just a bug in the compiler that wasN > asleep until EV6* came along, at which point they fixed the compiler to stopP > generating the erroneous code that worked by chance on EV5* but didn't on 6*.  > M > When one orders VMS and layered products CDs for Alpha, are there differenttJ > part numbers for those compiled for prior to EV6* and those after EV6* ?  H You are confusing 2 different issues.  There was a bug in many compilersF (probably in the GEM backend) where it generated incorrect instructionG sequences.  The restrictions had been in the architecture from the verylC beginning, but didn't actually matter on EV4.  When later CPUs werepC developed, the programs suddenly broke.  The fix was to correct theoB compiler and then recompile the relevent programs.  The recompiledE programs would work just fine on both the older and newer processors.   E I think the actual chances of encountering this were very slim.  WhenTC the problem was discovered, DEC/Compaq/HP included a program in thecD next version of VMS that could scan .EXEs for the illegal sequences.F I ran this program on our main application, millions of lines of code,B thousands of .EXEs, and it didn't find any instances.  (Mostly DEC  BASIC with some C and Macro-32.)    5 The 2nd issue is that the Alpha architecture has been < extended several times.  Byte and word operations, etc. have been added.E  5 Most compilers offer optimization options for variouse8 CPUs.  If you compile for EV4, it will run on any Alpha.9 If you compile for EV6, it might use the EV6 instructionsv9 that don't exist on EV4 and thus won't run on EV4 at all.n  ? I checked HELP for both the BASIC and C compilers on VMS 7.3-1.n  8 It says /OPTIMIZE=TUNE=xxxx  will produce code that runs4 correctly on all architectures, but might be slower.4 If you tune for EV6, your program will run faster on8 EV6 processors than if you tuned for EV4 or for GENERIC,4 but might run slower than on an EV4.  So if you know6 what processor your going to be running on, tuning for3 that one will give you best performance for it, but 2 will still work on the others.  If you don't know,4 then TUNE=GENERIC will give a reasonable compromise.4 The tuning affects instruction sequences tries to do1 things in the best possible order for overlappingo6 instructions with data access, etc., which varies with5 how deep the pipelines are, and with what can be done- at the same time.-  / There is also /ARCHITECTURE=xxx, which uses ther6 instruction set present on the specified architecture.4 If you compile /ARCH=EV6 and then run on an EV4 CPU,5 it will use EV6 instructions that don't exist on EV4, 6 and so will trap.  However, VMS V7.1 and later provide5 an instruction emulator for the missing instructions,-4 so it will emulate the EV6 instruction and continue,, at a fairly substantial performance penalty.  1 So programs compiled for ANY optimization and forn1 ANY architecture will run correctly on any Alpha. 1 But the wrong choice can really slow things down.   3 What HELP doesn't say, but I think is true, is thise3 only applies to USER-MODE (or maybe to IPL 0 code.)a1 In other words, the EV6 emulator can't be used in 6 device drivers, so they must be compiled /ARCH=GENERIC5 if you want them to run on any Alpha.  The only caseso3 I know of of VMS-supplied drivers that won't run onb7 all Alphas are some of the newer graphics card drivers.n6 Maybe performance was too awful when compiled GENERIC,  so they compiled them /ARCH=EV6?  4 There aren't separate part numbers or VMS or layered7 product CDs for any HP stuff that I know of.  Generallyi2 VMS runs just fine on a cluster with a system disk! shared between EV4 and EV7 nodes.m  2 It is possible that at boot time or at run-time, a4 program might choose to use an EVx version of itself5 or of important subroutines to get better performanceh1 when possible.  For example, SORT might contain 2n5 different string comparison routines, one which works)5 on EV4 and one which uses byte instructions and wouldk3 be really slow on an EV4 (because of emulation) but 5 is faster than the EV4 code on an EV6, and checks thea3 processor type to decide which routine to use.  Butw3 I don't know if any HP-supplied VMS code does this.i0 Someone else said RDB does include two different2 versions, one for older systems and one for newer.     -- ' John Santose Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 11:51:53 -0600o) From: Jim Mehlhop <jmehlhop@adelphia.net>a Subject: Re: NFS how toa1 Message-ID: <p4ednWATe7EhK13dRVn-hg@adelphia.com>u   VAXman- wrote:Y > In article <2iaui6FkijpvU1@uni-berlin.de>, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:a >  >>VAXman- wrote: >> >>>Anyone using TCPIP services?h >>>i! >>>Whatever happened to examples?c >>>I >># >>There are examples in TCPIP HELP.  >> >>K >>>How do I setup, for example, my system disk so I can NFS mount it on my a
 >>>powerbook?  >>>  >>B >>I've been wanting to do this as well. Here's what I have so far. >>H >>I enabled NFS server and PORTMAPPER as suggested here, and to test it  >>out locally, NFS client too. >> >>$ >>TCPIP> map "/alpha" sys$sysdevice:/ >>TCPIP> set config map "/alpha" sys$sysdevice:a >>A >>The /host=* in the export command can also be a list of clientsl >>e.g. /host=("mac",mynode)s >>) >>TCPIP> add export "/alpha/xfer" /host=*- >>7 >>The UIC for username STURE on my Alpha is [30,1], so:o >>- >>TCPIP> add proxy sture /uid=30/gid=1/host=*. >>K >>I've just realised that I missed out the /nfs=(outgoing,incoming) as per a, >>Zane's suggestion. I'll look at that next. >>L >>TCPIP> mount dnfs1: "/alpha/xfer" /host=mynode /system /path="/alpha/xfer"D >>%TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-S-MOUNTED, /alpha/xfer mounted on _DNFS1:[000000] >>TCPIP> >>$ sh dev dnfs" >>H >>Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  >>Trans MntaI >> Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks e >>Count Cntv0 >>DNFS0:          (DINA)  Online               0H >>DNFS1:          (DINA)  Mounted              0  /alpha/xfer    unknown >> >>$ dir dnfs1:[000000] >> >>Directory DNFS1:[000000] >>	 >>X.TXT;1a >>/ >>Now, as described at http://tinyurl.com/ywp4d  >>	 >>$ tcpiph0 >>TCPIP> add proxy tcpip$nfs /uid=0/gid=1/host=*7 >>TCPIP> add proxy tcpip$nobody /uid=-2 /gid=-2 /host=*e >>
 >>On the Mac:' >>* >>As described at http://tinyurl.com/2up6c >> >> >>>mkdir alpha; >>>sudo mount -o "-P" mynode:/alpha/xfer /Users/sture/alphae >>>ls alpha  >> >>ls: alpha: Permission denied >  > M > This is where I am as well.  I can't seem to figure out what "permissions"  ! > need to be set to allow access.i >  >   F  From my experiences using Multinet and TCPware, I would say that the E problem is that the UID sent (assuming it is -2,-2) is going to "VMS r9 account" tcpip$nobody which I would assume has no priv's.p  E Most NFS clients allow you to define your UID Either by specifying a rI system with the username/pass (which then goes to the NFS proxy database oH and sends back the associated UID/GID pair) or defining them within the  client.h  G IE in the case above the VMS user name sture was defined as UID=30 and oE GID=1  so if he want's to access the files AS "STURE" then he has to lG have the UID of 30 and the GID of 1 defined on the powerbook. (HOWEVER e6 the nfs client on the powerbook does that association)   Jimt   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2004 21:12:27 GMTu From: healyzh@aracnet.comg Subject: Re: NFS how toe+ Message-ID: <c9qojr0pc7@enews3.newsguy.com>u  + Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote:mK > I've just realised that I missed out the /nfs=(outgoing,incoming) as per s, > Zane's suggestion. I'll look at that next.  J My suggestions appear to be totally out of date...  I take it that you canH no longer export a directory and instead have to export either a disk or container file?!?!?!  E I've apparently not tried NFS since upgrading my system from 7.2.1H1 eI (TCPIP 5.3) to 7.3-2 (TCPIP 5.4).  Like I said, I normally use Appletalk. 4 I did have NFS working in the last year though, odd.   		Zane   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 17:39:57 GMTi1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>a# Subject: Re: Scripting SET PASSWORDe< Message-ID: <Nt2wc.2538$jK6.2353@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>   Michael Austin wrote:    > Michael D. Ober wrote: > L >> Our users log in to captive DCL menu scripts.  I need to be able to allowL >> them to execute the SET PASSWORD command in this environment.  Any ideas? >>
 >> Thanks,
 >> Mike Ober.u >> >> >  > $ if menu_select .eqs.  n 	 > $  then H > $      set password !! user will be prompted to enter old and new pwd. > $      goto start_menu
 > $  endif >  > Michael Austin.   I   a google search of this ng for dcl captive password, you will see this e as been solved  a few times...  % And by far this simplest way is from:l << ehttp://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=62q69m%249qt%40topgun.es.dupont.com&rnum=7&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dgroup:comp.os.vms%2Bdcl%2Bset%2Bpassword%2Bcaptive%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D62q69m%25249qt%2540topgun.es.dupont.com%26rnum%3D7 p  >>g  C "All they have to do is add /NEW_PASSWORD to their username at the .= "Username: " prompt in login. (see help login for more info)"e   Example:  &                     Hackers Go Away...  ! Username: myusername/new_password0	 Password:rB     Welcome to OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.3-1@      Last interactive login on Thursday,  3-JUN-2004 07:29:43.36B      Last non-interactive login on Friday,  4-JUN-2004 12:31:28.58  ,              You have 115 new Mail messages.  @ Your password has expired; you must set a new password to log in  
 New password:e
 Verification:-   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 18:13:53 GMTJ) From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca>n# Subject: Re: Scripting SET PASSWORDx9 Message-ID: <Xns94FE7C6BF983Efalkarcabca@198.161.157.145>t  ; "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> wrote inn) news:aG1wc.15$5Z4.19921@news.uswest.net: i  E > Our users log in to captive DCL menu scripts.  I need to be able toaF > allow them to execute the SET PASSWORD command in this environment. 
 > Any ideas? o   Easy:d+        $ DEFINE/USER SYS$INPUT SYS$COMMAND:c        $ SET PASSWORD      -- i@ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca o@ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Roade1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canadad http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4a  http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 18:00:01 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>f8 Subject: Sun To Open Source Solaris ... sort of ...maybe, Message-ID: <pemdnQneyfJ_bV3dRVn-jg@igs.net>  L http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1209&e=5&u=/nf/24366&sid=95 573734   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 21:47:38 -0400* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: Sun To Open Source Solaris ... sort of ...maybe2 Message-ID: <ormdneaF-MOSu1zdRVn-tA@metrocast.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message& news:pemdnQneyfJ_bV3dRVn-jg@igs.net... >rL http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1209&e=5&u=/nf/24366&sid=95 > 573734  G That's nice, I guess.  But I'm more interested in the new 'dynamic fileeL system' that they just announced, which at least claims to support the kindsH of features I've been suggesting for years:  anyone seen any substantive6 information on it yet (I didn't find any more than the< press-release/high-level-manager comments stuff at sun.com)?   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 10:50:42 -0700r+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>t" Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist licenses' Message-ID: <40C0B672.1060109@MMaz.com>:   Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote:   > David J Dachtera wrote:u >0 >> Tom Linden wrote: >>   >>C >>> I got a couldn't connect message, so the site is probably down.s >>>s >>>  -----Original Message-----2: >>>  From: Alan Boyles [mailto:alan.boyles@mindspring.com]+ >>>  Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 6:01 AMD >>>  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com# >>>  Subject: VMS Hobbyist licensesn >>>o >>>uA >>>  I am not able to get to montagar.com to refresh my Hobbyist a >>> licenses.  Is': >>>  this still the place to go or have I missed a change? >>>    >> >>  >> There appears to be a bug in:. >> http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/index.html >>  >> ..as it tries to redirect to:" >> http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/ >> >> ..which name resolves to:7 >> DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ mult nslo www.openvmshobbyist.com' >> Server:  LOCALHOSTo >> Address:  127.0.0.1 >># >> Name:    WWW.OPENVMSHOBBYIST.COMh >> Address:  209.39.152.40 >>, >> ..which differs from openvmshobbyist.org:7 >> DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ mult nslo www.openvmshobbyist.orgD >> Server:  LOCALHOSTi >> Address:  127.0.0.1 >> >> Non-authoritative answer:# >> Name:    WWW.OPENVMSHOBBYIST.ORG- >> Address:  65.64.220.211 >>G >> Anyway, http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/ seems to be working tonight.  >> >>   >>I > Both the .COM and the .ORG are now going to the same site and the 'Get D) > yer license' is working, I just did it!  >aF I spoke too soon, prior attempts to get another license has failed as F they never showed up.  Later attempts then claimed my DECUS/Encompass G number was invalid, and now, when attempting to go back into the site, p* the DECUS Chapter pulldown box is empty...     Barryl   -- r  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 13:32:13 -0500c/ From: Clay M. Denton <denton@orison.dsserv.com>V" Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist licenses8 Message-ID: <hpf1c0184n772p1ussk775nifr4m3ooc1n@4ax.com>  O I know there have been some hiccups over the past couple of months with this...   O The openvmshobbyist.com site was at John Wisniewski's house, with the licensingaP back end still on Montagar.  After John passed away, the hobbyist front end was Q on autopilot for a while until a power failure at his house.  The system was thenAG relocated and brought back up at the Montagar site, with some quick DNS O changes to make this work.  Of course, it seems that not everything was changedV at that point.  Z I'll see if this can get sorted out.  Keep in mind that the hobbyist infrastructure is runS by a few volunteers (who have real jobs), and John W's passing has left a big hole..   Clay  P On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 10:50:42 -0700, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote:   >Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote:t >  >> David J Dachtera wrote: >> >>> Tom Linden wrote:m >>>  i >>>aD >>>> I got a couldn't connect message, so the site is probably down. >>>>  >>>>  -----Original Message-----; >>>>  From: Alan Boyles [mailto:alan.boyles@mindspring.com] , >>>>  Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 6:01 AM >>>>  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-$ >>>>  Subject: VMS Hobbyist licenses >>>> >>>>B >>>>  I am not able to get to montagar.com to refresh my Hobbyist  >>>> licenses.  Is; >>>>  this still the place to go or have I missed a change?3 >>>>   s >>>n >>>o! >>> There appears to be a bug in:h/ >>> http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/index.htmla >>>v! >>> ..as it tries to redirect to:m# >>> http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/s >>>l >>> ..which name resolves to:o8 >>> DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ mult nslo www.openvmshobbyist.com >>> Server:  LOCALHOST >>> Address:  127.0.0.1e >>> $ >>> Name:    WWW.OPENVMSHOBBYIST.COM >>> Address:  209.39.152.40a >>>g- >>> ..which differs from openvmshobbyist.org:,8 >>> DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ mult nslo www.openvmshobbyist.org >>> Server:  LOCALHOST >>> Address:  127.0.0.1n >>>M >>> Non-authoritative answer:e$ >>> Name:    WWW.OPENVMSHOBBYIST.ORG >>> Address:  65.64.220.211  >>>oH >>> Anyway, http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/ seems to be working tonight. >>>s >>>  s >>> J >> Both the .COM and the .ORG are now going to the same site and the 'Get * >> yer license' is working, I just did it! >>G >I spoke too soon, prior attempts to get another license has failed as iG >they never showed up.  Later attempts then claimed my DECUS/Encompass aH >number was invalid, and now, when attempting to go back into the site, + >the DECUS Chapter pulldown box is empty...T >h >M >Barry   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.310 ************************5@MMaz.com>    JF Mezei wrote:   : >(Lets assume for the moment that IA64 survives 13 years). >  > O >I can run the latest version of VAX-VMS on my teenage allmighty Microvax II. I O >think that it is simply because only a couple of support files specific to the K >MVII are needed early in the boot, and after that, VMS runs transparently.  >(Correct ?) > O >However, with compilers so tighly tied to the IA64 CPU to take advatage of CPU D >chang9+B0dQ H_8g/9Z%#d7k6R1ϹkaS_![Ѭ$g*Ϊ`yy.&~Xk1I ynPwu?OB]n"-GpNo(LY6)T=+|**p...7GN{DBX>b
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