1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 07 Jun 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 314       Contents:
 AST level I/O  Re: AST level I/O  Re: AST level I/O  Re: AST level I/O   Re: backup of empty directories!8 Re: CA'S INGRES DATABASE TO BE RELEASED INTO OPEN SOURCE Re: CSWS 2.0 + TCPware 5.6 ??? Re: Curious about MOP file copy = Re: DCL enhancement - REQUEST/REPLY - how to capture a value. ! Re: Free surplus SW Prod Lib kits ! Re: Free surplus SW Prod Lib kits 	 Re: Merci 	 Re: Merci 	 Re: Merci 	 Re: Merci 1 Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ? ! Re: Oracle statement of direction ! Re: Oracle statement of direction 5 pdp11/05 complete system available; John  Wisniewski. 9 Re: pdp11/05 complete system available; John  Wisniewski. 9 Re: pdp11/05 complete system available; John  Wisniewski. - Re: Solaris command output in a VMS symbol...  Re: Storing system files in CMS  Re: T4 and friends Re: T4 and friends Re: VMS Hobbyist licenses " [OT] Has Patton been "accidented"?& Re: [OT] Has Patton been "accidented"?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2004 12:25:32 -0700 " From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe) Subject: AST level I/O= Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0406061125.13954a15@posting.google.com>   F I am wondering about I/O to SYS$OUTPUT from nonAST code which might beE interrupted by AST code (which might generate an I/O to SYS$OUTPUT of F its own). I know that if the synchronous thread is in the middle of anC I/O, is interrupted, then the AST thread goes and issues an I/O the % program is going to fall down an die.   C I can block ASTs in the synchronous thread or is I need to write to F SYS$OUTPUT in the AST open my own channel but what's bugging me is isD there some non-zero probability that in the middle of the I/O in theB synchronous thread is RMS going to go call $FLUSH so that I end up with something like:  E this I/O wasTHIS I/O WAS ISSUED FROM AN AST issued from the main loop    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2004 17:51:41 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: AST level I/O3 Message-ID: <LnctGfU$QTWL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <d56d1c2d.0406061125.13954a15@posting.google.com>, cstranslations@msn.com (Joe) writes:H > I am wondering about I/O to SYS$OUTPUT from nonAST code which might beG > interrupted by AST code (which might generate an I/O to SYS$OUTPUT of H > its own). I know that if the synchronous thread is in the middle of anE > I/O, is interrupted, then the AST thread goes and issues an I/O the ' > program is going to fall down an die.  > E > I can block ASTs in the synchronous thread or is I need to write to H > SYS$OUTPUT in the AST open my own channel but what's bugging me is isF > there some non-zero probability that in the middle of the I/O in theD > synchronous thread is RMS going to go call $FLUSH so that I end up > with something like: > G > this I/O wasTHIS I/O WAS ISSUED FROM AN AST issued from the main loop   A You could only achieve that by sending your IO to RMS (or QIO) in B pieces.  Once RMS (or QIO) gets a string to be output, the machine; is operating in Executive (or Kernel) mode, which cannot be  interrupted by a user mode AST.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 23:56:20 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: AST level I/O@ Message-ID: <a8df5820334ebf42467216d96d0b61b1@news.teranews.com>  
 Joe wrote: > H > I am wondering about I/O to SYS$OUTPUT from nonAST code which might beG > interrupted by AST code (which might generate an I/O to SYS$OUTPUT of  > its own).   L If you are using SYS$QIO, then even at the AST level, all it does is QUEUE aM request for IO. If doing $QIOW, it queues the IO and then waits for it to get + a signal back to indicate it was completed.   D However, I have seen, while debugging, a C language printf in an ASTF interrupting a printf in mainline (inserting text in the middle of theM mainline printf). However, it is not clear to me if printf does multiple QIOs , or if it packs everything into a single one.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2004 20:27:12 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: AST level I/O3 Message-ID: <PO9V$ERLxnVf@eisner.encompasserve.org>   p In article <a8df5820334ebf42467216d96d0b61b1@news.teranews.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Joe wrote: >>  I >> I am wondering about I/O to SYS$OUTPUT from nonAST code which might be H >> interrupted by AST code (which might generate an I/O to SYS$OUTPUT of >> its own). > N > If you are using SYS$QIO, then even at the AST level, all it does is QUEUE aO > request for IO. If doing $QIOW, it queues the IO and then waits for it to get - > a signal back to indicate it was completed.  > F > However, I have seen, while debugging, a C language printf in an ASTH > interrupting a printf in mainline (inserting text in the middle of theO > mainline printf). However, it is not clear to me if printf does multiple QIOs . > or if it packs everything into a single one.  . Priorities for CRTL seem to be Unix emulation,+ so one should not expect VMS level quality.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2004 22:26:54 -0700 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)) Subject: Re: backup of empty directories! = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0406062126.5831ca26@posting.google.com>   f "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<p3Mvc.7205$Xy3.22844@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>... > Funny  > G > I more than once had a problem in that OpenVMS would not BACKUP empty   > directories to my destination.D > That was when using BACKUP to copy files from one disk to another.! > And this a a BACKUP limitation.  > . > But iirc that was for root directories only.  C You probably specified [*...] as the input specifier. Since none of E the "root" directories reside in any of the top directories (from the B * part), BACKUP didn't copy them. But non-empty "root" directoriesB would be created for you as you have to have "somewhere to put theC files", but I bet the attributes of such directories would not have  been copied.  D Specifying [000000...] as the input specifier should do the trick to1 copy both empty and non-empty "root" directories.    JMHO   [...]    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 22:57:02 +0200  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>A Subject: Re: CA'S INGRES DATABASE TO BE RELEASED INTO OPEN SOURCE - Message-ID: <ca00ep$29q8$1@news.cybercity.dk>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: ? > In article <f30679fb.0405310205.503d4d10@posting.google.com>, 2 > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) writes: > 8 >> What about bundling Oracle RDB in OpenVMS again ? ;-)8 >> Oracle RDB is for OpenVMS only ! HP and ORacle should7 >> be much more intelligent and make an agreement about - >> licensing with differencial charges etc...  > G > Looking at the size of his house, his yacht etc, I presume that Larry D > Ellison is living quite well off the revenues provided by Rdb; why > should he give them up?  > H > Of all the questionable management decisions made at DEC in the 1990s,E > this one (selling Rdb to Oracle) seems to make some sense, at least D > from the point of view possible at that point in time.  If DEC hadF > kept Rdb, VMS would be seen as competition to Oracle, so there wouldD > be less motivation for them to support (non-Rdb) Oracle on VMS.  IB > suppose the reasoning went that by selling Rdb to Oracle, OracleE > wouldn't care which database they sell, and DEC could use (non-Rdb) D > Oracle as an additional selling point for its systems.  Of course,C > this whole point became moot when DEC effectively decided to stop ) > marketing VMS altogether in many areas.  > B > Personally, I would have taken a different approach: develop ALLE > products needed for your own OS and people can take it or leave it. E > DEC once had a huge array of great software products, all carefully  > integrated with one another. > F > (For the same reason, I don't understand all the anger at Bill Gates@ > bundling various stuff with Windows, whether or not there is aC > technical reason for it.  If people don't like his offering, they F > shouldn't buy it.  One can't expect him to help the competition.  OfE > course, if he somehow unfairly came to hold a near-monopoly (I have G > no opinion on this, since I don't have enough information), then this G > is an issue one might wish to tackle, but requiring the unbundling of F > software from the OS is the wrong place to attack: first, one shouldG > address the real problem and second this argument only makes sense if E > one has resigned to accept the near-monopoly in the first place, in ! > which case I say why the fuss.)   L Bundling is a legal concept (specifically US anti-trust law), and monopoliesJ are forbidden from "bundling" leveraging their monopoly in one area to theK detriment of companies operating in another.  There are plenty of US cases, J some very complicated where monopolies have been found in breach.  Do some8 research on the matter BEFORE you form your own opinion.  L My personal cut is that MS IS guilty of bundling in the anti-trust sense and should have been dinged for it.   
 Dr. Dweeb.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2004 14:41:20 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)' Subject: Re: CSWS 2.0 + TCPware 5.6 ??? = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0406061341.417d0b2a@posting.google.com>   k "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<N1pwc.54627$Hn.1456829@news20.bellglobal.com>...  > H > I'm not going to take sides on this issue but would like to pass a few > points of possible interest: > N > 1) although we used Purveyor for 3 years and found it very stable as well asM > easy to use, we were forced to move to CSWS to access features not found on K > Purveyor.  Also, in PSC's own words: "we will sell you a Purveyor license J > but will not support it and will not develop it" which means that no newL > features will be coming. (at that time I asked them to put the source codeM > into the public domain but they would not do it. If you're going to port it I > to Itanium then either they've changed their minds or you have licensed L > their source code). If Purveyor meets all your current needs then there is > no reason to change to CSWS.  3 yes, you can buy purveyor source code for a fee ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 16:19:07 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>( Subject: Re: Curious about MOP file copy+ Message-ID: <40C38A4B.7B584070@comcast.net>    Hans Vlems wrote:  >  > MOP won't pass routers.   2 It must be bridged transparently at high priroity.   D.J.D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 16:16:00 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>F Subject: Re: DCL enhancement - REQUEST/REPLY - how to capture a value.+ Message-ID: <40C38990.8289DBFF@comcast.net>    Paul Sture wrote:  >  > David J Dachtera wrote: 
 > > [snip]4 > > PIPE is kinda broken in V7.2-2, but this worked: > > G > > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ pipe req/reply "yes?" | (read sys$pipe p9 ; read  > > sys$pipe p9 + > > ; write sys$output p9 ; show symbol p9)  > > %OPCOM-S-OPREPLY,  > > NOB > > 21:58:54.46, request 4 was completed by operator _DJAS01$OPA0: > > K > >   P9 = "%OPCOM-S-OPREPLY, ..NO..21:58:54.46, request 4 was completed by  > > operator > >  _DJAS01$OPA0:." > > E > > Note that the seemingly three line output is returned in a single 1 > > string. The response could be isolated using:  > >  > > $ cr[0,8]=13 > > $ lf[0,8]=10Y > > $ pipe req/reply "yes?" | (read sys$pipe p9 ; read sys$pipe p9 ; define/job resp &p9) ? > > $ resp = F$elem( 0, cr, f$elem( 1, lf, f$trnlnm( resp ) ) )  > > $ > Correction - last line should read > ? > $ resp = F$elem( 0, cr, f$elem( 1, lf, f$trnlnm( "resp" ) ) ) 9 >                                                  ^    ^    Nice catch, Paul! Thanx!   D.J.D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 22:54:45 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>* Subject: Re: Free surplus SW Prod Lib kits. Message-ID: <40C3A0B5.5498.14756D1A@localhost>  * On 4 Jun 2004 at 15:26, Rich Jordan wrote:A > Heh!  I'm looking at my vari-colored wall of (almost) every VAX H > CONDIST from late 1990 to September 2001, and Alpha CONDIST from MarchF > 1997 to present, plus most of the VAX and Alpha VMS binaries kits onG > TK50 and CDs... we've moved three times, each time the powers that be F > tell me to trim them down, and each time I just can't make myself do< > it, move them myself, and sneak them back onto my shelves.  F Actually, Tom's sending the lot to me.  I have a 137 GB disk with all A the CONDIST's I could find from V5.5 and on.  Unfortunately, the  D original source of much of this dropped VAX support in the mid 90's ? ("dropped" isn't the right word, more like "mostly went out of  C business").  The Alpha stuff came from another source, and is only   the late 90's.  B I wrote a DCL script to compare each CD against the disk and snag D only the updated kits.  They are SO handy in my CHARON-VAX business C [yep, another Shameless Plug (tm)].  Wish I had kept all those pre- : 5.5 tapes -- I have clients running versions back to V4.5.  9 I still have 40 GB free, so it's time to fill it up!  :-)   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 02:59:11 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Re: Free surplus SW Prod Lib kits@ Message-ID: <67881e32c65b343372cdff9128a18950@news.teranews.com>  I I had offered to DECUS Canada (or whatever its name is this week) to host H condist for VAX and Alpha to aloow hobbyists to get to kits that are not available on the hobbyist CD.   N However, this is not looking good (for various reasons I won't get into here -K but mostly due to old holdovers from previous times). So it didn't even get K past DECUS to "Digital" for approval/support of the concept. (DEC/HP was to 9 send me Cds at "regular" intervals (probably once a year)   N I have spare bandwidth on my server/ISP link and would be willing to make kitsK available to hobbyists in a controlled manner. With DECUS Canada, the offer I was to have requests authenticated with the "Decus Office" for membership F number and then I would mount and serve whatever the member requested.  N Since the deal with Decus Canada isn't likely to go through, I am wondering ifR it would be feasable to go at it alone and perhaps open it up to a wider audience.  O How difficult would it be to get second hand CDs that are "relatively" recent ?   K Could I do this by myself, or should I attempt to get some sort of official  sanction from VMS management ?   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Jun 2004 14:14:02 -04003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>  Subject: Re: Merci. Message-ID: <mddd64cy2ol.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  $ Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:   > 6-JUN-1944 ~ 6-JUN-2004  >  > Merci. >  > D. > French   Il n'y a point des mots...  ' Vive la France!  Vivent les Etats-Unis!    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 18:12:18 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Merci@ Message-ID: <850774cc9c4abc3564e5e57d8f55f42d@news.teranews.com>   Rich Alderson wrote: > Il n'y a point des mots... > ) > Vive la France!  Vivent les Etats-Unis!   L Vive le Canada, Vive l'Angleterre. Vive tout autre pays qui a particip mais qui n'est pas mention.   K (i.e. some media outlets only mention their own country as participating in < D-day, but there were a lot of nations who did participate).  M Does anyone know if Australia-New Zealand had sent troups over , or were they N too busy defending themselves against the Japanese to contribute to the war in europe ?  M And also, vive la Rsistance. All those french who risked their lives just as < much as soldiers by helping defeat the invadors from within.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 05:23:25 +0930 * From: Mark Daniel <mark.daniel@vsm.com.au> Subject: Re: Merci- Message-ID: <40c3763e@duster.adelaide.on.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Rich Alderson wrote: >  >>Il n'y a point des mots... >>) >>Vive la France!  Vivent les Etats-Unis!  >  > N > Vive le Canada, Vive l'Angleterre. Vive tout autre pays qui a particip mais > qui n'est pas mention.  > M > (i.e. some media outlets only mention their own country as participating in > > D-day, but there were a lot of nations who did participate). > O > Does anyone know if Australia-New Zealand had sent troups over , or were they P > too busy defending themselves against the Japanese to contribute to the war in
 > europe ?  ' yes, ~3000 mostly in air power, and yes   : http://www.awm.gov.au/atwar/remembering1942/dday/index.asp  O > And also, vive la Rsistance. All those french who risked their lives just as > > much as soldiers by helping defeat the invadors from within.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2004 05:42:58 GMT 2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> Subject: Re: Merci? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-Sd4Xn2xLDkNj@dave2_os2.home.ours>   * On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 18:12:18 UTC, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    > Rich Alderson wrote: > > Il n'y a point des mots... > > + > > Vive la France!  Vivent les Etats-Unis!  > N > Vive le Canada, Vive l'Angleterre. Vive tout autre pays qui a particip mais > qui n'est pas mention.  > M > (i.e. some media outlets only mention their own country as participating in > > D-day, but there were a lot of nations who did participate). > O > Does anyone know if Australia-New Zealand had sent troups over , or were they P > too busy defending themselves against the Japanese to contribute to the war in
 > europe ? > O > And also, vive la Rsistance. All those french who risked their lives just as > > much as soldiers by helping defeat the invadors from within.  E And Poles, Czechs, Greeks, Belgians, Nowegians, Luxembourg. Heck who   have I left out?   --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 17:57:24 +0000 (UTC)3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> : Subject: Re: New IA64 binaries run on Old IA64 computers ?2 Message-ID: <c9vlu3$1f6$1@hercules.btinternet.com>  	 Hi David,   C I live in Middlesex (East Twickers). Where is Middlesex University?    Regards Richard Maher.  + <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message # news:c9ve5e$8bg$1@news.mdx.ac.uk... = > In article <40C0C524.4070805@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr."  <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:  > >JF Mezei wrote: > > = > >>(Lets assume for the moment that IA64 survives 13 years).  > >> > >>L > >>I can run the latest version of VAX-VMS on my teenage allmighty Microvax II. I K > >>think that it is simply because only a couple of support files specific  to the? > >>MVII are needed early in the boot, and after that, VMS runs  transparently. > >>(Correct ?)  > >>K > >>However, with compilers so tighly tied to the IA64 CPU to take advatage  of CPUG > >>changes/imrprovemenst for performance, will a version of VMS OS and L > >>applications compiled for Itanium 4  with Itanium 4 compilers be able to run H > >>on Merced boxes ? (eg: in the future, will binaries for recent IA64s still  > >>work on much older IA64s ?)  > >>F > >>Won't IA64 compilers in the future generate code that assumes that certain K > >>tricks are possible on IA64 ? What happens when that code executes on a F > >>generation of IA64 that precedes the addition of those performance tricks ? > >>I > >>Or is IA64 now a "stable" architectire with no more changes coming in  the way K > >>compilers generate code to provide about half the performance of IA64 ?  > >> > >>D > >I'm not a Itanic fan, in fact I think it is the 21st centuries ITE > >disaster just wanting to happen.  None the less, the same problems D > >impacted VAX & Alpha too, but this was dealt with at the hardwareI > >abstraction layer, so if Intel/HP use a HAL for IA64 to protect the OS C > >from odd differences in chipsets that basically perform the same B > >function, it shouldn't be an issue...  If they don't then priorF > >discussions of binary portability may come into play, but the otherF > >factor is that over 13 years, when considering how much VMS changesI > >during the past decades, we've 'lost' binary portability several times > > >with new hardware but also at major dot releases when major. > >functionality was integrated into the OS... > > I > Apart from the VAX -> Alpha transition I'm not aware of any lost binary 1 > portability of VMS due to changes in the chips. K > There has of course always been the potential for lost binary portability  for ? > user programs utilising kernel structures when upgrading VMS.  > H > The possibility of tying VMS to the chip version has always been there since K > the compilers such as C include /archicture qualifiers. However as far as  I am@ > aware VMS has never been complied with anything other than the
 /ARCH=GENERIC 	 > option.  > E > Some thirdparty applications do utilise these architecture compiler  options for 8 > instance Oracle recently stopped supporting EV5 chips. > B > Given that Itanium is much more dependent for performance on the
 optimisations L > performed by its compilers than Alpha I would suspect that both thirdpartyK > applications and the base VMS operating system will probably need to make  use A > of such architecture qualifiers in the future in order to boost  performance.C > Since as Oracle has demonstrated thirdparty suppliers do not like 
 supportingK > multiple versions compiled with different compiler options it is probable  thatL > the lifcycle of a VMS itanium system will be much shorter than that for anH > Alpha system if the users wish to use the latest versions of software. >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >  >  >  > >  > >Barry > >  > >--  > > A > >Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com A > >Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320 A > >Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028  > >  > >  > >    ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 17:54:48 +0000 (UTC)3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> * Subject: Re: Oracle statement of direction2 Message-ID: <c9vlp7$174$1@hercules.btinternet.com>   Cheers.   ? Norman Lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> wrote in message $ news:40C33509.F13B10E6@oracle.com...> > On-disk format remains the same.  So you'll be able to share? > an Rdb 72 database between Alpha and IPF in a cluster as well @ > as be able to 'quickly' (matter of seconds) convert a database< > to Rdb 72 format (and, of course, still be able to roll it3 > back to the prior level if you feel the need to).  >  > Richard Maher wrote: > > A > > C'mon Norm, do I really have to raise a TAR to find this out?  > > G > > Yes, I am pretty sure that even your Row-Cache fuelled pathological J > > indifference to all things Clusters could not drive you to force loyalF > > Rdb/VMS customers into a Big-Bang conversion approach. And there's	 obviously @ > > no need for me to tell everyone here about the benefits of aF > > mix-architecture clusters and the convenience (more often than notI > > necessity) of porting one application, or part there of, at a time to K > > itanium while still being able to access the same data from their tried  and G > > test bank of Alpha/VAX applications. But my paranoia has me hearing  voicesD > > that sound a lot like Bill Gettys saying some bullshit like "Rdb engineering L > > has taken this opportunity to reorganize the internal page format in theI > > database to exploit fully the performance features of the new itanium D > > architecture and to convert some word and longword constructs to	 quadwords F > > to solve VLDB issues." _or_ "Having consulted extensively with our clientI > > base(1) we've realized that most customers will be deploying strictly  "new" L > > applications on there itanium hardware and will be gradually phasing outL > > their existing Alpha hardware. While we at Rdb engineering will continue toF > > support Alpha/Rdb for many years to come we will not be supportingK > > mix-architecture clusters at this time due to lack of demand. This will J > > allow us to concentrate our resources on exploiting fully the features of0 > > the itanium architecture such as Row-Cache." > > J > > If you let 'em get their hands on clusters at this stage you may never get K > > them back to Row-Cache. You must do whatever it takes to stop this from  this? > > from happening!! Save these stupid cluster worshippers from 
 themselves!!!  > >  > > Regards Richard Maher  > > J > > (1) "Client Base" - The same sycophantic ring-kissers you always speak to > > get the answers you want.  > > @ > > Richard Maher <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote in message. > > news:c7igko$7n4$1@sparta.btinternet.com... > > > Hi Norm, > > > D > > > > With these releases, both database and applications will run entirely > > > > on Itanium.  > > > K > > > I just re-read your note and wanted to check on something. I'm pretty  sureC > > > that your comment above was just refering to the time when an 
 rdb$remoteK > > > attachment to an Alpha would no longer be a *requirement* but can you I > > > confirm that the on-disk structure of Rdb databases on Itanium will  not J > > > differ from those on VMS and mixed-architecture cluster support will be > > > there from year dot? > > >  > > > Regards Richard Maher  > > > K > > > PS. Does anyone know the final outcome of VMS engineering support for 	 > > VAXes I > > > in a mixed-architecture cluster with Itanium? Last I heard (I think  fromH > > > Hoff) was something like "We're not doing anything to break it but won't  > > be > > > certifying it will work".  > > > E > > > Norman Lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> wrote in message * > > > news:40925215.7DF1FB34@oracle.com...E > > > > It would be proper and correct to read into the document that F > > > > Oracle Rdb and Oracle Database on OpenVMS are developed by twoF > > > > different groups at Oracle who do not necessarily include eachI > > > > other in their public statements about their respective products.  > > > > E > > > > In fact, the port of Rdb to Itanium is well underway.  We are E > > > > soliciting volunteers who will bring application code and Rdb H > > > > databases to the OpenVMS Boot Camp in Nashua.  We will work withD > > > > them to port their code to Itanium processors at that event. > > > > J > > > > We expect to release an ADK this quarter that will allow customersI > > > > to compile their applications on Itanium while using Rdb's remote I > > > > access capabilities to read and write data on an Alpha processor. L > > > > We expect to release two beta test versions of Rdb on Itanium beforeF > > > > a final production release in the second quarter of next year.D > > > > With these releases, both database and applications will run entirelyI > > > > on Itanium.  Of course, we continue to support Rdb on VAX & Alpha H > > > > processors as well (though active, 'new feature' work on the VAX > > > > is declining). > > > >  > > > > - - - - - 8 > > > >  opinions expressed here are mine and mine alone5 > > > >  and certainly are not intended in any way to 8 > > > >  express or represent any opinions or commitment > > > >  of oracle corporation.  > > > > 2 > > > >  norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering > > >  > > >  >  > -- > - - - - - 2 >  opinions expressed here are mine and mine alone/ >  and certainly are not intended in any way to 2 >  express or represent any opinions or commitment >  of oracle corporation.  > , >  norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 00:17:59 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>* Subject: Re: Oracle statement of direction6 Message-ID: <1040607001235.45762D-100000@Ives.egh.com>  + On Sun, 6 Jun 2004, Norman Lastovica wrote:    > Richard Maher wrote:@ > > Richard Maher <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote in message. > > news:c7igko$7n4$1@sparta.btinternet.com... > > > Hi Norm, [...]  > > > K > > > PS. Does anyone know the final outcome of VMS engineering support for 	 > > VAXes N > > > in a mixed-architecture cluster with Itanium? Last I heard (I think fromN > > > Hoff) was something like "We're not doing anything to break it but won't > > be > > > certifying it will work".   D I don't know anything official, but during a tour of the Engineering? Lab in Nashua at a recent LUG meeting, one of the VMS engineers B said that building VMS requires that there be a VAX in the clusterA (presumably to recompile and link some bit that is then VESTed to @ make the Alpha version, and then ????ed (Re-InVESTed???) to make> the IA64 version) and there are no plans to change this, so atB least one tri-architecture cluster will have to exist and work for the forseeable future.   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 21:18:25 GMT 4 From: patrick jankowiak <nounwantedemail@swbell.net>> Subject: pdp11/05 complete system available; John  Wisniewski.* Message-ID: <40C389A6.5C78DA7C@swbell.net>  ^ If you ever wanted to own a pdp11/05, the first pdp11, here's your chance to own TWO of them..  q 50% of the proceeds go to the trust fund for John Wisniewski's children. (see link on the page if you don't know)   = http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5100505571    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 00:27:22 +0200 ( From: Renaissance <glucasole@tiscali.it>B Subject: Re: pdp11/05 complete system available; John  Wisniewski.* Message-ID: <2ihk27Fmr7bjU1@uni-berlin.de>   patrick jankowiak wrote:  8 > If you ever wanted to own a pdp11/05, the first pdp11,   uhm... the first? . http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/table.html   bye G.L.   --  1  E' assolutamente evidente che l'arte del cinema 9   si ispira alla vita, mentre la vita si ispira alla TV  
 (Woody Allen)    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 00:07:02 GMT 4 From: patrick jankowiak <nounwantedemail@swbell.net>B Subject: Re: pdp11/05 complete system available; John  Wisniewski.) Message-ID: <40C3B12A.359E73F@swbell.net>    I did refer to that page, but found the page ambiguous because note #3 on the same page seems to indicate this unless read very carefully:  h The 11/20 docs referred to a stripped down model, the 11/10, which became the OEM version of the 11/05. ` So therefore, the 11/05 begat the 11/10(oem), which was mentioned later in the 11/20 documents.    Or it can be taken that way. The written mention in the 11/20 document, and then the actual numbering of, 'pdp11/10', being applied to two different machines, has caused confusion.   Since I am not a computer history expert, I have gone to the source (Gordon Bell) and found there presented evidence that your correction of my statement is with merit, and so I thank you for bringing it to my attention.  { Indeed, the note #3 on the psych page is somewhat misleading. I'll go edit some evilbay text now, so that all will be well.    bye P J    Renaissance wrote: >  > patrick jankowiak wrote: > : > > If you ever wanted to own a pdp11/05, the first pdp11, >  > uhm... the first? 0 > http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/table.html > 
 > bye G.L. >  > --3 >  E' assolutamente evidente che l'arte del cinema ; >   si ispira alla vita, mentre la vita si ispira alla TV   > (Woody Allen)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 16:12:12 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>6 Subject: Re: Solaris command output in a VMS symbol...+ Message-ID: <40C388AC.8D81275B@comcast.net>    Martin Vorlaender wrote: > 0 > Shiva MahaDeva (contracer11@uol.com.br) wrote:G > > I use VAX/VMS V5.5, and the S.O. doesn't haves PIPE command...  :-(  > A > Output redirection can be accomplished without the PIPE command C > by re-defining SYS$OUTPUT to the file name (possibly with /USER). / > So Kari's suggestion should also work on 5.5.   E There is also some freeware out there that I used to run on V5.5-2 to B build pipelines manually by creating permanent mailboxes and usingE SPAWN/NOWAIT/OUT=x/IN=x to set up streams of programs passing data to + each other, including COPY and CONVERT/FDL.e  C See http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/ for vmspipe.zip (originallySC submitted to the VAX Forum on Compuserve circa. 1994 as PIPE.TLB, Ia	 believe).    D.J.D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 16:07:17 -0500e2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>( Subject: Re: Storing system files in CMS+ Message-ID: <40C38785.E15FC0D3@comcast.net>    David J Dachtera wrote:6 >  > Phil Pulley wrote: > >e= > > I am trying to store the following system files in CMS...5 > >l > > Sysuaf.dat > > Vms$audit_server.dat > > vue$profile.vue$datt > >a# > > ...but it doesn't seem to work./ > >mH > > I can (apparently)create the element OK but, when I try and fetch orI > > reserve it CMS terminates & the file is not retrieved (I am using the H > > Decwindows front end to access CMS) however - I can store & retrieve > > text files OK.H > > I suspect that CMS does not handle this type of file but the manuals( > > do not confirm that this is the case > 9 > I'd be curious as to what the value of this would be...:  ? Am I to conclude by the lack of response that this is merely ano' exercise, and holds no practical value?    D.J.D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 00:08:51 GMTn- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>w Subject: Re: T4 and friendsa@ Message-ID: <48a5d6d12f2d4144d2d3ac68a04bec68@news.teranews.com>   David J Dachtera wrote: F > One key item to remember: in order to be truly valuable, performanceJ > reporting solutions *MUST* be 100% automated. They *MUST* be able to run4 > in batch, unattended, scheduled by whatever means.  < The collection and perhaps some processing of data should beE "background/automated. But it should be viewable on-line very easily.g  L But accessing graphs and displays should be available interactively at will.K It is rather pointless to automatically print reports that you may not use. N Much better to have a list of available reports on-line, and view the ones youA wish, and possibly print the one or two you really need on paper.0   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 00:20:57 GMTe1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>o Subject: Re: T4 and friendsn< Message-ID: <JxOwc.4900$XL4.1575@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:t   <snip>C > Well, out here in the real world, hand-outs at meetings are stille > more-or-less mandatory.   H This depends on your pointy-haired managers... :)  *I* have not been in H a performance meeting in years where a printed graph was mandatory.  We H were usually in a room with multiple wall-projectors and if a graph was H needed, it was point-click and on the screen -- next to the screen with @ a mon proc/top{whatever} running.  I guess some of us have been 
 spoiled... :)     2 > And for for past reference, managers like to seeA > hard copy with the original dates on them (saves arguments overtF > authenticity), not the date the graph was most recently committed to > hard-copy.    For starters... go to my websiteH << http://www.firstdbasource.com/t4/t4chart.php >> and select the first H file T4_ALPHA1_01APR2004_0000_2359.ZIP;1 and click the radio button for  [MON.SYST] and hit submit.  E You will note in the bottom right-hand corner of the each graph, the 6. date. Is it the printed date or the data date?  H Having worked in a shop with more than 200 systems, I used the T4 tools H to make my life easier without having to sort through 200+ graphs a day G (for each parameter).  When working in an extremely large environment, dI that becomes unmanagable.  That shop initially used the CA {PCSA|VPM} or aE whatever it was called and WAS printing those histograms every day.. eE Once we reached 75 or 80 systems, that became too many and the print rC portion was removed and a web-page was constructed to view them as nA necessary.  I also constructed DCL scripts to extract only daily eE averages and could graph them using some point-and-click magic in an -C Excel spreadsheet.  My pointy-haired managers didn't care what the pE "print" date was, they were interested and were given the data date. P9 Dave, you have got to train your managers better :) :) :)8  G Not only did I have access to this site, but everyone with performance kE responsibility did -- including the managers and application support SG personnel.  If they wanted to see how a certain system was performing, hH point-click -bada-bing-bada-boom he had the data.  Sometimes, given the G "new" bread of pointy-haired managers, this is much easier than having uL to figure out who's desk or on what floor is that darn graph filing cabinet.  I I don't believe I said that your methods were off-base.  There are times lF when automating those print-outs can be useful.  I was merely showing G you the possibilities. Can the current tools be adapted to do what you ,F want.. Hey, with a bit of programming and $$$$, anything is possible. H But as I also stated that takes time and there are those of us that are - working on it.  It takes time -- and money...y  H While I am taking the tools provided by HP and beginning to use them in I ways thought not possible and writing the wrappers that make them useful dE and databases to store the data such that data mining can occur more cD easily, I currently don't have anyone funding my efforts.  Building ) tools is great, but then, so is eating...   C Bottom line: all of this is possible. You had said this is a great BF business opportunity... let me know when you are ready to sign on the F dotted line - because I have a great deal of it almost ready - except A for the impact printer request... they can never do a good graph   justice.  :) :)d  	 <snipped>eE > See, the WhineBloze way has become so engrained, that we can't evenoH > argue against the urge to have people playing point-and-click all day. >   H Well, the PC and WhineBloze is just a tool that happens to sit on every H desk in the world (well, mostly).  Everyone wanted n-tier architecture, F now they have it.  I merely exploit it to use applications that don't H exist on VMS.  Yes, it's sad, but until that changes, I will exploit it ! to accomplish my tasks and goals.-    > Sad.-  E True... but no one ever said the best technologies will always win...e    >	  > D.J.D.R     Michael Austin will work for $$$I( I take that back... will work for $$$$$$   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 16:13:59 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>" Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist licenses+ Message-ID: <40C38917.917CF85B@comcast.net>u   "Clay M. Denton" wrote:e > Q > I know there have been some hiccups over the past couple of months with this...m > Q > The openvmshobbyist.com site was at John Wisniewski's house, with the licensingcQ > back end still on Montagar.  After John passed away, the hobbyist front end was S > on autopilot for a while until a power failure at his house.  The system was theneI > relocated and brought back up at the Montagar site, with some quick DNSiQ > changes to make this work.  Of course, it seems that not everything was changed  > at that point. > \ > I'll see if this can get sorted out.  Keep in mind that the hobbyist infrastructure is runU > by a few volunteers (who have real jobs), and John W's passing has left a big hole.n  : E-mail me privately and let's see what I can do to help...   D.J.D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 00:11:59 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>+ Subject: [OT] Has Patton been "accidented"?o. Message-ID: <ca04rg$26g7$1@biggoron.nerim.net>  M To celebrate the D Day, I just watched the Patton movie starring a wonderful  
 George Scott.f  O Has Patton been "accidented" because he might have been a source of diplomatic  / trouble from his will to kick the Russians ass?g  8 Where would be a more suitable location to discuss that?     -- . D. aka <GCP>_Leader     ;   Raven Shield server is: "GCP, neutralisez les hostiles !"g;   HP Hyperthreading Pentium IV 2.2 GHz system ADSL 1024/256h;   RvS demo 1.1 / Team Survival only / No Heartbeat sensors! -                http://www.ravenshield-gcp.orgh   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 18:07:17 -0700* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>/ Subject: Re: [OT] Has Patton been "accidented"?i2 Message-ID: <r_KdnWeHHfNbIl7d4p2dnA@mpowercom.net>  / "Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> wrote in message ( news:ca04rg$26g7$1@biggoron.nerim.net...E > Has Patton been "accidented" because he might have been a source ofe
 diplomatic1 > trouble from his will to kick the Russians ass?s >l: > Where would be a more suitable location to discuss that? >eL I'd suggest newsgroups that deal with movie plots.  It made for a good movieC (not really, I thought the sequel was right out of black helicopter F conspiracy theory land) but no evidence it was in any way connected toF history.  There were other generals just as reactionary as Patton (for& instance, MacArthur and Curtis LeMay).  K Rewriting history for the sake of a good story isn't uncommon.  If you everiK watch "The Untouchables" movie it's a classic example of actual events that-: were largely ignored in order to make the ending exciting.   Jack Peacock   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.314 ************************