1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 17 Jun 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 335       Contents:, Re: Accessing NFS from OS X. Was: NFS how to* Adding Win2003 Server to Pathworks Network. Re: Adding Win2003 Server to Pathworks Network. RE: Adding Win2003 Server to Pathworks Network- Anyone here using products from this company? 1 Re: Anyone here using products from this company? 1 Re: Anyone here using products from this company? 1 Re: Anyone here using products from this company?   Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS  Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS  Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS  Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS  Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS  Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS  Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS  Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS  Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS  Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS  Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS0 Re: COPY VMS Save Sets to CD on WINDOWS machine.0 Re: COPY VMS Save Sets to CD on WINDOWS machine.0 Re: COPY VMS Save Sets to CD on WINDOWS machine. Re: delete directory recursive Re: delete directory recursive Re: delete directory recursive1 Re: Job openings at Dell in Texas - not VMS - ???  Re: SWS-2.0 (Apache) & CGI ???7 Re: Tru64 --> OpenVMS rather than another unix platform 7 Re: Tru64 --> OpenVMS rather than another unix platform ' Unhackable OpenVMS - a defcon story ... + Re: Unhackable OpenVMS - a defcon story ... & Re: VMS Gets Short Shrift at HP World.& Re: VMS Gets Short Shrift at HP World.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:05:58 +0000 (UTC) & From: News Reader <nomail@noemail.vms>5 Subject: Re: Accessing NFS from OS X. Was: NFS how to $ Message-ID: <carqe6$f9c$1@online.de>  7 On 17 Jun 2004 04:10:55 GMT, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:   ( >News Reader <nomail@noemail.vms> wrote:8 > The example in the manual suggests that you still can: >   >> TCPIP> MAP "/vmsdisk" DSA301:9 >>    TCPIP> ADD EXPORT "/vmsdisk/brown/test" /HOST=ultra  > K >Ah, I think I see my problem, I had previously done it as part of the MAP, G >and now it looks like I would need to do it as part of the ADD EXPORT.   F There has been no change to the example between the TCPIP V5.4 ("new") and TCPIP V5.1 ("old") manual.  G A mount point can be lower down in the exported hierarchy than has been E exported.  In general you shouldn't export-out higher-up in the file- H system structure than you need to for reasons of, for example, security.  @ So to share the directory and its decendants DSA301:[BROWN.TEST]C though you could mount /vmsdisk/brown/test with DSA301: exported as * /vmsdisk, you probably shouldn't go there.   Mapping isn't exporting.  H The recommended way of exporting DSA301:[BROWN.TEST] and its descendantsA has always been to map DSA301: and to export /vmsdisk/brown/test.   H TTBOMK, the only time you map a subdirectory is when you're implementingG a Unix container share; and you additionally have to map the underlying  disk or virtual disk.   J So to share the container filesystem & its descendants DSA301:[BROWN.TEST]: you map DSA301: and DSA301:[BROWN.TEST] and in that order.   Does that help?   H >> what's so funky about Apple's NFS in OS X that its causing you grief? > G >there are significant differences, espeically where networking related 8 >things are concerned... it uses the NetInfo database...  B Understood.  A whole lot of new terminology and concepts to grasp.> <URL=http://networking.earthweb.com/netos/article.php/1430801>B says they've now scrapped it, so its probably not worth mastering.  H >As I said in a previous post, it's just to much trouble, and I'll stick# >with Appletalk for the time being.   - Same article says they're scrapping that too.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2004 02:30:00 -07007 From: andrew.leprevost@skanco.co.uk (Andrew Le Prevost) 3 Subject: Adding Win2003 Server to Pathworks Network = Message-ID: <e442d0d8.0406170130.7ca1d06d@posting.google.com>    Hello.  E I have a client who has a Digital server running "Advanced Server 7.3 E for OpenVMS".  All the clients are Windows 95 with fixed IP addresses E and access a program on the Server using a Telnet Emulation program.  0 The Win95 clients are all in the same workgroup.  E At the minute, they don't save any files to the Digital server - they B are all saved locally.  We are putting in a new Windows 2003 SmallC Business Server so that they can use Exchange, SQL etc and can also 9 save their files onto the server which will be backed up.   C My query is that I will have to make the Win95 Clients log onto the F new NT domain.  Will this cause a problem for the Digital stuff??  TheF server will still exist, with the same IP address etc so I am assumingA that the clients can still access it.  I take it that there is no 6 specific authentication issues to be concerned about??  > They also have all the DEC networking stuff (DecRepeater 90TS,A DecRepeater 90FE, DecServer 90M etc) - I assume that Windows will  still work through this fine.   , Many thanks for any help anyone can give me.   Andrew Le Prevost    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:41:56 +0200 2 From: Karl Rohwedder <emil.mustermann@t-online.de>7 Subject: Re: Adding Win2003 Server to Pathworks Network ) Message-ID: <carp0q$kdq4@doiweb4.b2x.vwg>    Andrew Le Prevost wrote: > Hello. > G > I have a client who has a Digital server running "Advanced Server 7.3 G > for OpenVMS".  All the clients are Windows 95 with fixed IP addresses G > and access a program on the Server using a Telnet Emulation program.  2 > The Win95 clients are all in the same workgroup. > H For just Terminalaccess you do not need Advanced Server, or are you also% connecting shares on the VMS machine?   G > At the minute, they don't save any files to the Digital server - they D > are all saved locally.  We are putting in a new Windows 2003 SmallE > Business Server so that they can use Exchange, SQL etc and can also ; > save their files onto the server which will be backed up.  > E > My query is that I will have to make the Win95 Clients log onto the H > new NT domain.  Will this cause a problem for the Digital stuff??  TheH > server will still exist, with the same IP address etc so I am assumingC > that the clients can still access it.  I take it that there is no 8 > specific authentication issues to be concerned about??8 For just Terminalemulation, this should work afterwards. > @ > They also have all the DEC networking stuff (DecRepeater 90TS,C > DecRepeater 90FE, DecServer 90M etc) - I assume that Windows will  > still work through this fine.  > . > Many thanks for any help anyone can give me. >  > Andrew Le Prevost    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:56:15 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> 7 Subject: RE: Adding Win2003 Server to Pathworks Network R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3569A7@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----C > From: Andrew Le Prevost [mailto:andrew.leprevost@skanco.co.uk]=20  > Sent: June 17, 2004 5:30 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 5 > Subject: Adding Win2003 Server to Pathworks Network  >=20 > Hello. >=20G > I have a client who has a Digital server running "Advanced Server 7.3 G > for OpenVMS".  All the clients are Windows 95 with fixed IP addresses I > and access a program on the Server using a Telnet Emulation program.=20 2 > The Win95 clients are all in the same workgroup. >=20G > At the minute, they don't save any files to the Digital server - they D > are all saved locally.  We are putting in a new Windows 2003 SmallE > Business Server so that they can use Exchange, SQL etc and can also ; > save their files onto the server which will be backed up.  >=20E > My query is that I will have to make the Win95 Clients log onto the H > new NT domain.  Will this cause a problem for the Digital stuff??  TheH > server will still exist, with the same IP address etc so I am assumingC > that the clients can still access it.  I take it that there is no 8 > specific authentication issues to be concerned about?? >=20@ > They also have all the DEC networking stuff (DecRepeater 90TS,C > DecRepeater 90FE, DecServer 90M etc) - I assume that Windows will  > still work through this fine.  >=20. > Many thanks for any help anyone can give me. >=20 > Andrew Le Prevost  >=20  
 Hello Andrew,   
 Reference:2 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/pathworks/asovmsnew.html   A few suggestions-  C 1. Does the client want file sharing without worrying about Windows E server viruses? If so, then upgrade to latest version Advanced Server E V7.3A eco 2 (makes sense if you are introducing the latest version of H Windows Server) and use it for the telnet program access as well as fileA shares. Keep the SQL Server for App db access only. That way when C someone copies a large PowerPoint file to a file share, it will not ) impact the performance of the SQL Server. H 2. If answer to 1. is yes, then also recommend Sophos on Advanced ServerF to verify file share file contents that get stored by Windows clients. Reference: www.sophos.com G 3. Active Directory is required for W2003 domain setup, and that can be  a planning project on its own.H 4. Check status of Win95 client support from Microsoft. According to theH following Msoft support web site, there are no more virus/security fixesG planned for this older client Windows version. By the way, this is good G url to bookmark for anyone wanting to know the latest support dates for  Product x from Microsoft. @ http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=3Dfh;[ln];LifeWin   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:17:53 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 6 Subject: Anyone here using products from this company?, Message-ID: <8tOdnf147sC8K0zdRVn-jg@igs.net>   http://www.sleepycat.com/   3 http://www.sleepycat.com/products/featurelist.shtml   E Not a VMS question because it isn't natively available on VMS, AFAIK.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:57:49 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: Anyone here using products from this company?2 Message-ID: <DMmdnV98JKPRIkzdRVn-sA@metrocast.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message& news:8tOdnf147sC8K0zdRVn-jg@igs.net... > http://www.sleepycat.com/  > 5 > http://www.sleepycat.com/products/featurelist.shtml   1 No, but in case you don't find anyone who does...   D Berkeley DB has a modest but AFAIK decent reputation.  I'm favorablyI disposed toward their CTO (Margo Seltzer) on the basis of her significant L academic contributions to the file and database literature (she's definitelyK not a light-weight here), and I've at least heard of Keith Bostic's work on ( the Berkeley log-structured file system.  K Also, Sleepycat has been around for a while - definitely not a fly-by-night L enterprise.  So while I can't vouch for them directly, I'd say they've got aI better than average chance of being a good choice if their products match  what you need.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:32:18 +0100 5 From: "Robert A.M. van Lopik" <lopik@mail.telepac.pt> : Subject: Re: Anyone here using products from this company?* Message-ID: <2jdtf2FvoetuU1@uni-berlin.de>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message& news:8tOdnf147sC8K0zdRVn-jg@igs.net... > http://www.sleepycat.com/  > 5 > http://www.sleepycat.com/products/featurelist.shtml  > G > Not a VMS question because it isn't natively available on VMS, AFAIK.  >  > J Well, there is a full Java version available of the database, which should run on VMS.    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:23:34 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk: Subject: Re: Anyone here using products from this company?) Message-ID: <casgi6$2ep$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   R In article <8tOdnf147sC8K0zdRVn-jg@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: >http://www.sleepycat.com/ > 4 >http://www.sleepycat.com/products/featurelist.shtml > F >Not a VMS question because it isn't natively available on VMS, AFAIK. > J The TRU64 and Solaris versions of PMDF moved over to using sleepycat with L PMDF v6. I'm extremely grateful that they left PMDF on VMS using RMS indexed files.J Sleepycat may well work well with some applications but it caused enormous problems with PMDF.    See   J http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=sleepycat&as_ugroup=vmsnet.mail.pmdf   H I believe the next version of PMDF - version 6.3 - will drop the use of J sleepycat for the most heavily used database (the queue cache) which will E become an in-memory database. Sleepycat may be retained for much less  frequently accessed databases.= I believe SUN's SUNONE product has already made such changes.            
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 06:11:02 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>) Subject: Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS - Message-ID: <87pt7zqhl5.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   4 "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> writes:  D > I have a prospective client who has a bunch of 8" floppies writtenC > by RT-11.  How can I get these to a form that can be read by VMS?   F > Since the client has no PDP-11 or floppy drive, I am completely openC > to suggestions.  The disks cannot be sent to a conversion service  > provider, however...  B VMS will read RT-11 media. Finding an 8" drive may be an adventure> though.  Well, help on an alpha claims it will, it does on Vax? anyway. So if you can get the bits off the disks, you are done.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2004 07:11:58 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ) Subject: Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS 3 Message-ID: <Oh0OYmwntPYH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <40D06BFE.9775.466E9367@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> writes: * > On 16 Jun 2004 at 3:17, dtcorbett wrote:H >> Easy answer, send it out for conversion. I perform this all the tmie. > 9 > Sorry, it's classified data, and cannot leave the site.  >   C    OK, get the customer a good used PDP-11 with an RX01 or RX02 and     a tape drive or serial card.    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jun 2004 12:23:08 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)) Subject: Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS * Message-ID: <2jdgpcFvisnjU1@uni-berlin.de>  + In article <car6p21slf@enews2.newsguy.com>,  	healyzh@aracnet.com writes:/ > Bill Gunshannon <bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu> wrote: 7 >>         dtcorbett <adrnospam@mind.nonetspam> writes: H >> > Hard answer, get the hardware to do it, like a VAX with a Qbus that >> > can handle an RX01/02.  > D >> Why would you go out and acquire a huge honkin' VAX when a PDP-11 >> will do the job just fine?  > G > The target OS is VMS, as such it makes since to simply show up with a K > MicroVAX II in a BA23 and a RX02 unit.  Use EXCHANGE to read the floppies ) > and send the result over the network.     D True, but then that is a step down from the suggestion that they get an 11/780.  :-)    > M > The only other option is to show up with a PDP-11 (probably in a BA23) with L > an RX02 unit.  The PDP-11 would need to be running RT-11 (well technically? > it could be running RSX-11M/M+), and either TCP/IP or Kermit.   C Actually, you could probably move the data to a much easier to work G with environment using a PDP-11 and no OS, but again, it really depends ) on what the final intent for the data is.    > 7 >> > Very hard answer, on-site conversion. Very costly.  > G >> Not necessarily as costly as you might think.  Unless the conversion K >> people are going to brin in that huge honkin' VAX I mentioned above. :-)  > F > Are you going to show up onsite with the necessary hardware cheaply?  E Cheaply is a matter of opinion.  What is unbelievably expensive to me H is pocket change to most businesses.  How important is getting this dataF off those floppies?  And yes, for the right amount (probably less thanG you think) I could show up on-site with the necessary hardware.  I have H a number of PDP-11's that could do the job in a number of different waysG that would easily fit int he trunk of a car so putting them in the back - of my Jeep Wagon would not present a problem.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2004 05:55:49 -07002 From: williamwebb@openvms-rocks.com (William Webb)) Subject: Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS = Message-ID: <bf98c417.0406170455.48ae0ae6@posting.google.com>   i Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote in message news:<40D0DD01.3020901@Flying-Disk.com>...  > Stanley F. Quayle wrote:, > > On 16 Jun 2004 at 3:17, dtcorbett wrote: >   K > > > Easy answer, send it out for conversion. I perform this all the time.  >   ; > > Sorry, it's classified data, and cannot leave the site.  > @ > Yeah, I know that drill.   For sufficient quantities of money,B > I can bring the hardware to their site and do the transfer while? > they wait and watch.   Contact me if they are really serious.  > B > Remember that 8" floppies are so old that there is a good chanceC > the oxide will simply rub right off the first time they are read. D > They could wind up spending significant money and not get anything > back for it. > 7 > What VAX-compatible media do they want the result on?  >  > Alan  F Another consideration when formulating a quotation for this service isF whether or not the equipment that is brought into the facility will beA allowed to go back out after the conversions have been performed.   " Some places have a one-way policy.  B (Pay no attention to the nice Marine with the M16 who is keeping a1 deceptively nonchalant eye on what you're doing.)    WWWebb   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 13:52:34 GMT F From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)) Subject: Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS 2 Message-ID: <CmhAc.4102$Nt2.2869@news.cpqcorp.net>  < >> > Sorry, it's classified data, and cannot leave the site. >>  A >> Yeah, I know that drill.   For sufficient quantities of money, C >> I can bring the hardware to their site and do the transfer while @ >> they wait and watch.   Contact me if they are really serious. >>  C >> Remember that 8" floppies are so old that there is a good chance D >> the oxide will simply rub right off the first time they are read.E >> They could wind up spending significant money and not get anything  >> back for it.  >>  8 >> What VAX-compatible media do they want the result on? >>   >> Alan  > G >Another consideration when formulating a quotation for this service is G >whether or not the equipment that is brought into the facility will be B >allowed to go back out after the conversions have been performed. > # >Some places have a one-way policy.    I would agree with this:  A If the site really is classified, and they don't want the data to D go outside, they may not want any of the equipment that ever touchesC it to go outside afterwards.  They may not even want anyone without $ the proper clearance to come inside.  @ I think this clients only option is going to be to BUY some usedB hardware (as suggested, a PDP-11 or Micro-VAX with the appropriate> drives) and do the conversion themselves.  They will also need< a license for the OS, but they can probably get a short-termB lease for that, especially if they promise to distroy the hardware> after they're done with it.  (That's not really a joke in thisA environment.)  And, as Alan properly pointed out, there is always @ the possibility that the media will self-distruct when read.  If= they have many of these floppies, they should try reading the < least important ones first.  There are ways to stabilize old, media, but that also calls for a specialist.   --  (  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have a 5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jun 2004 14:16:47 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)) Subject: Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS + Message-ID: <2jdneeF10g9otU1@uni-berlin.de>   2 In article <CmhAc.4102$Nt2.2869@news.cpqcorp.net>,I 	lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman) writes:  >  > I would agree with this: > C > If the site really is classified, and they don't want the data to F > go outside, they may not want any of the equipment that ever touches  > it to go outside afterwards.    G In all but a very few instances the only part that might not be allowed D to leave is any persistant media, wether or not it ever actually hadH classified data written to it.  The machine is usually safe.  The peopleB who work in these places are not idiotsa nor are they particualrlyE paranoid and the regulations covering the subject aren't as stupid as  some outsiders like to make it.   E >                               They may not even want anyone without & > the proper clearance to come inside.  ? This is a given.  You can not allow a person without the proper @ clearance to have any access to the information even if it is in7 a format they probably woudn't recognize or understand.    > B > I think this clients only option is going to be to BUY some usedD > hardware (as suggested, a PDP-11 or Micro-VAX with the appropriate- > drives) and do the conversion themselves.     C That is, of course, one solution but not the only one.  Actaully, I C would be very surprised if the equipment and expertise didn't exist F somewhere they could get access to it with all security considerationsF in place.  You would be amazed at what equipment could be found in the> basement of a certain funny shaped building in Arlington.  :-)  @ >                                            They will also need > a license for the OS,   B Again, this depends on the type of data and what they intend to do? with it.  I know of a number of ways that are OS independant or G can use OSes that do not require a license that can get the information " off the disks in a usable fashion.  > >                       but they can probably get a short-termD > lease for that, especially if they promise to distroy the hardware@ > after they're done with it.  (That's not really a joke in thisC > environment.)  And, as Alan properly pointed out, there is always @ > the possibility that the media will self-distruct when read.    B While true in many cases, 8" disks are much more durable than mostB modern media and consider that because of the type of data and theG type of facility these porbably came from there is a strong probability F the disks have been stored in a reasonable environment and not in some desk drawer.  B >                                                               If? > they have many of these floppies, they should try reading the > > least important ones first.  There are ways to stabilize old. > media, but that also calls for a specialist. >   J I have done some work with old media.  I have only had one set of floppiesI that self-destructed and only 2 9-track tapes.  Of course, I have a stack K of tapes in the lab behind me that someone wants me to try to read (EBCIDIC C he say, probably from some IBM big iron.) I tend to get these jobs, C especially now as I am the only computer room left on campus with a G 9-track drive (actually, I have about a half-dozen of them.  Of course, ? I am also the only one with working 8" and 5.25" floppy drives.    Keeps life interesting.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2004 09:31:58 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ) Subject: Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS 3 Message-ID: <WG1YzffNBYX2@eisner.encompasserve.org>   { In article <CmhAc.4102$Nt2.2869@news.cpqcorp.net>, lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman) writes:   B > I think this clients only option is going to be to BUY some usedD > hardware (as suggested, a PDP-11 or Micro-VAX with the appropriate+ > drives) and do the conversion themselves.   I I don't believe 8 inch floppies were ever a standard Microvax peripheral.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:17:25 +0100 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>) Subject: Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS ' Message-ID: <casgb8$572$1@lore.csc.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: >    Anomaly time.....     E > > If the site really is classified, and they don't want the data to H > > go outside, they may not want any of the equipment that ever touches  > > it to go outside afterwards. > I > In all but a very few instances the only part that might not be allowed F > to leave is any persistant media, wether or not it ever actually hadJ > classified data written to it.  The machine is usually safe.  The peopleD > who work in these places are not idiotsa nor are they particualrlyG > paranoid and the regulations covering the subject aren't as stupid as ! > some outsiders like to make it.   D ...Where the level of paranoia is low. Some "agencies" treat RAM theG same way they treat magnetic media. And frankly, I'm not going to stand  there and argue with them.   G > >                               They may not even want anyone without ( > > the proper clearance to come inside. > A > This is a given.  You can not allow a person without the proper B > clearance to have any access to the information even if it is in9 > a format they probably woudn't recognize or understand.   G There is something called need to know, and from time to time civilians C are required. With clearances taking 3 months plus for the "medium" D levels, not to mention the cost, hosts can work within guidelines toH achieve certain "work units". However, some checks are always performed,D and the rules are different depending on nationality. (Of course NTN) can/does also apply even with clearance).   G Oddly, this is the bit that is not quite as draconian as you'd believe.  Mostly.   H I'll disclaim this as I'm not familiar with the global requirements, andG they do differ. I do know from personal experience there is some parity G with UK and US security requirements, but not necessarily between them!   D > > I think this clients only option is going to be to BUY some usedF > > hardware (as suggested, a PDP-11 or Micro-VAX with the appropriate- > > drives) and do the conversion themselves.  > E > That is, of course, one solution but not the only one.  Actaully, I E > would be very surprised if the equipment and expertise didn't exist H > somewhere they could get access to it with all security considerationsH > in place.  You would be amazed at what equipment could be found in the@ > basement of a certain funny shaped building in Arlington.  :-)  B "cross contamination" of kit in some cases is not allowed. period.  8 in others, it may travel "up" the chain, but never down.    @ > >                       but they can probably get a short-termF > > lease for that, especially if they promise to distroy the hardwareB > > after they're done with it.  (That's not really a joke in thisE > > environment.)  And, as Alan properly pointed out, there is always @ > > the possibility that the media will self-distruct when read. > D > While true in many cases, 8" disks are much more durable than mostD > modern media and consider that because of the type of data and theI > type of facility these porbably came from there is a strong probability H > the disks have been stored in a reasonable environment and not in some > desk drawer.  D But here we'd agree. I've got some 5.25 floppies which date from theE early 80's, and were a budget make, and, once I'd cleaned the dust of  the floppy drive, worked fine.   >  > Keeps life interesting.    and i'd agree on this.     --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:53:49 -0700 3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> ) Subject: Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS . Message-ID: <40D1CC9D.3030700@Flying-Disk.com>   William Webb wrote:   H > Another consideration when formulating a quotation for this service isH > whether or not the equipment that is brought into the facility will beC > allowed to go back out after the conversions have been performed.  > $ > Some places have a one-way policy. > D > (Pay no attention to the nice Marine with the M16 who is keeping a3 > deceptively nonchalant eye on what you're doing.)   C Been there, done that.   Given where Stanley is, I have a good idea  of what site it is.   E Given the collector's value of some of the gear, part of the contract E will have to be an agreed-on value of each component.   If it doesn't " leave with me, they pay the price.   Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:57:08 -0700 3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> ) Subject: Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS . Message-ID: <40D1CD64.1030304@Flying-Disk.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:} > In article <CmhAc.4102$Nt2.2869@news.cpqcorp.net>, lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman) writes:   B >>I think this clients only option is going to be to BUY some usedD >>hardware (as suggested, a PDP-11 or Micro-VAX with the appropriate+ >>drives) and do the conversion themselves.   K > I don't believe 8 inch floppies were ever a standard Microvax peripheral.   ; Perhaps not standard, but I had no trouble using them on my " VAXstation-II.   It simply worked.   Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:58:29 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> ) Subject: Re: Conversion from RT-11 to VMS < Message-ID: <V4kAc.1336$GU3.1037@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  4 > In article <CmhAc.4102$Nt2.2869@news.cpqcorp.net>,K > 	lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman) writes:  >  >>I would agree with this: >>C >>If the site really is classified, and they don't want the data to F >>go outside, they may not want any of the equipment that ever touches  >>it to go outside afterwards.   >  > I > In all but a very few instances the only part that might not be allowed F > to leave is any persistant media, wether or not it ever actually hadJ > classified data written to it.  The machine is usually safe.  The peopleD > who work in these places are not idiotsa nor are they particualrlyG > paranoid and the regulations covering the subject aren't as stupid as ! > some outsiders like to make it.     C I don't know what types of sites you have been at, but I recall an  G incident in a black-badge environment where another field engineer was  I told the field service parts kits were not allowed to leave the facility  F - even thought the parts had not even been installed in a system. All F HDA's (head disk assemblies) were demagnatized and shredded into tiny  little pieces... etc...   F Actually, the paranoia is much greater than most people can imagine...   Michael Austin Ex-DEC Field Service.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2004 09:41:12 +0200C From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) 9 Subject: Re: COPY VMS Save Sets to CD on WINDOWS machine. - Message-ID: <40d14b18$1@news.uni-konstanz.de>   J In article <caq6l0$8s$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes:T' >tim267@msn.com (Tim) writes in article K ><327155b6.0406161023.374594@posting.google.com> dated 16 Jun 2004 11:23:00S >-0700:PH >>Our ALPHA server systems do not have write-able CD drives. I attemptedG >>to put VMS save sets on a RW_CD by ftp'ing the save-sets to a WINDOWShG >>Machine,and then transfering the save sets from the DOS Hard Drive too >>the CD-RW disk.c >>E >>Unfortunately, the ALPHA machines are unable to read save sets from  >>the MS created disks.  >V >What happens when you try?  >VI >Normally, if you transfer a backup saveset to a non-VMS system, you must H >"fix" it when you bring it back.  You'll have to copy it to a writeable >disko >first, then use the command:f > ' >$ SET FILE saveset.bck /ATTR=LRL=32256o >SG >If you can't read the CD at all, I'd suggest using LDDRIVER on VMS and I >cdrecord on Linux to make the cd.  Abandon Windows.  MS products seem too >beD? >engineered to work as poorly as possible with non-MS products.e  2 You can produce CD-R(W) /DVD-R(W)/DVD+R(W)/DVD-RAM on OpenVMS (Alpha/VAX), too:  6 Abondon Linux and choose OpenVMS for CD/DVD-recording.   Tools for that task:  C cdrecord (freeware), DVDrecord (illegal patched cdrecord), DVDwritee
 (commercial).n Just look into the OpenVMS FAQ.f  I DVDwrite V4.0 will come out soon. New feature: support of DVD+R9 = 8,5 GBf on one disk.   Eberhard >S1 >--Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org ? >The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.- >-   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2004 07:20:58 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)S9 Subject: Re: COPY VMS Save Sets to CD on WINDOWS machine.i3 Message-ID: <CfUNebJnC+o7@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  X In article <327155b6.0406161023.374594@posting.google.com>, tim267@msn.com (Tim) writes:H > Our ALPHA server systems do not have write-able CD drives. I attemptedG > to put VMS save sets on a RW_CD by ftp'ing the save-sets to a WINDOWS G > Machine,and then transfering the save sets from the DOS Hard Drive to  > the CD-RW disk.o > E > Unfortunately, the ALPHA machines are unable to read save sets froml > the MS created disks.(  A    The MS system has no concept of file internals, or attributes.dD    You need to restore the file attributes using set file/attribute.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:56:23 +0200e* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>9 Subject: Re: COPY VMS Save Sets to CD on WINDOWS machine.O+ Message-ID: <2jdinoF10p58tU1@uni-berlin.de>w   Bob Koehler wrote:Z > In article <327155b6.0406161023.374594@posting.google.com>, tim267@msn.com (Tim) writes: > H >>Our ALPHA server systems do not have write-able CD drives. I attemptedG >>to put VMS save sets on a RW_CD by ftp'ing the save-sets to a WINDOWSnG >>Machine,and then transfering the save sets from the DOS Hard Drive ton >>the CD-RW disk.d >>E >>Unfortunately, the ALPHA machines are unable to read save sets fromr >>the MS created disks.m >  > C >    The MS system has no concept of file internals, or attributes.TF >    You need to restore the file attributes using set file/attribute. >   F I did this exercise recently to burn an ISO-9660 containing savesets. F The result was shortened file names, and either NFS or burning the CD & itself did something which meant that B RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTES.COM from the Freeware disk didn't $ produce somtehing BACKUP could read.  G Easy solution: as others have suggested, ZIP using the "-V" option and   burn the zip file to CD.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:39:46 GMTt! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>t' Subject: Re: delete directory recursive 8 Message-ID: <e1r2d0dq3tsqpvli5u40gab3a10fen5i5f@4ax.com>  K On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:19:00 GMT, "Charles J. Fisher" <cfisher@rhadmin.org>d wrote:  K >Is there a way in VMS to accomplish an "rm -r" (UNIX), "deltree" (Win95), tN >or "del /s" (WinNT)? I'm a VMS neophyte and I can't find anything to do this.  P Install GNV from the Open Source Tools CD. Amongst other things it gives you the5 bash UNIX shell & thus you can use "rm -r" from that.l   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azurn   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2004 07:19:43 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i' Subject: Re: delete directory recursiveS3 Message-ID: <wk$MGVfLBak$@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  w In article <caq3ag$tp4$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:l >> tK >> If you weren't running with an excess of privilege, you'd need to start e8 >> with $ set file/prot=w:rwed top.dir;,[.top...]*.dir;14 >> then do $ del [.top...]*.*;*,;,;,;,;,;,[]top.dir; >> kH >> (add ,; as many times as necessary to cater for the necessary depth). > G > This is an old trick.  I never use it, using a DCL procedure instead.pD > However, I'm curious as to a) why it works, b) if it can always be: > expected to work in DCL and c) whether it is documented.  ?    It's not really a trick, it's based on documented behaviour.   ?    The first [.top...]*.*;* deletes all non-directory files andlB    and directory files which are empty.  The following ,; picks up?    the related file name ([.top...]*.*) from the first and addsr@    an explicit wildcard for the highest version, since directoryC    files are always verion ;1 that will delete any directories madecD    empty by the first pass.  Repeating ,; 7 times covers the maximumB    8 subdirectories on ODS-2, and the last []top.dir; picks up the    highest level.s  H    This is not guarranteed to work on ODS-5 since you can have more thanH    8 subdirectory levels.  It can also fail on ODS-2 since you can use aF    rooted logical name to get 16 subdirectories (it will fail if thereE    are more than 8 from where you start); but you can use it by doingrF    it once from the rooted name and then again from the actual device.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 22:46:53 +0800l, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>' Subject: Re: delete directory recursiveb- Message-ID: <874qpaqm1u.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   R helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:  D > In article <capn80$a66$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, Chris Sharman' > <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes: r   >> Charles J. Fisher wrote:k  tE >> > Is there a way in VMS to accomplish an "rm -r" (UNIX), "deltree"rF >> > (Win95), or "del /s" (WinNT)? I'm a VMS neophyte and I can't find >> > anything to do this.t   D >> If you weren't running with an excess of privilege, you'd need toF >> start with $ set file/prot=w:rwed top.dir;,[.top...]*.dir;1 then do, >> $ del [.top...]*.*;*,;,;,;,;,;,[]top.dir;  i@ >> (add ,; as many times as necessary to cater for the necessary
 >> depth).  > > This is an old trick.  I never use it, using a DCL procedureD > instead.  However, I'm curious as to a) why it works, b) if it canD > always be expected to work in DCL and c) whether it is documented.  5 a) It is just deleting a list of files, bog standard.0  B b, c) yes to both. The key is the `sticky' defaults that propagateC from the first list member, to all but the last. So the second fileMC spec, ";" gets [.top...]*.* and * added by the standard RMS and DCLc file defaulting rules.   -- i< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.'@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:03:05 +01005O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>a: Subject: Re: Job openings at Dell in Texas - not VMS - ???0 Message-ID: <casbra$9n0$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Dave Weatherall wrote:4 > On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:37:47 UTC, Andrew Harrison , > <andrew_remove_.harrison@__sun.com> wrote: >  >  >>Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: >  > ...9 > I >>>Dell, as far as I know and we've been standarded on their servers and tI >>>desktops for many moons, doesn't sell any AMD based Athlon or Opteron iJ >>>systems.  So what is their for Dell to ditch?  As for getting into bed J >>>with Itanic, they've done that once, I don't think they'll be quick to , >>>do it again unless the volume is there... >>>  >>>  >>>Barry >  >  r > D >>In fact Dell cannot sell AMD based systems, they have an exclusiveA >>contract with Intel which guarantees them preferential terms in , >>return for single sourcing x86 processors. >>B >>Dell do produce Itanium based systems but only out of necessity. >>B >>They need a 64bit system in the 1-4 way space and are stuck with/ >>doing Itanium because they cannot do Opteron.e >  > $ > Good news for HP all round then... >   7 Not really, reluctant support of Itanium by other Intelo# OEMS is exactly what HP don't need.e  < Without dramatic increases in Itanium shipments the platform8 will die and no-one expects those shipments to be driven8 by HP one their own. Hopefully I don't need to point out5 that the death of Itanium will be the trigger for ther collapse of HP's ESG.o   Regards/ Andrew Harrisonl   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2004 06:33:40 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)' Subject: Re: SWS-2.0 (Apache) & CGI ??? = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0406170533.1a1736bb@posting.google.com>c  j "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<XXLzc.18604$nY.649610@news20.bellglobal.com>...6 > "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message3 > news:h3Yyc.533$7H1.31361@news20.bellglobal.com...S > >a >  [...snip...]t > >  >  > <<< Problem Update >>> > G > I've tried everything possible but have not been able to solve my CGI I > problem with CSWS-2.0 (a.k.a. Apache-2.0.47 for OpenVMS). These are ther  > simplest facts as I know them: >  > <<< Conclusion >>> > B > I'm giving up on CSWS-2.x until HP releases a version based uponN > Apache-2.0.49 or someone else confirms that CGI is working properly on their > implementation of CSWS-2.0 >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,0 > Ontario, Canada.: > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html  7 that is why I tried to get the OpenVMS engineers to useR8 purveyor rather than apache ... I can see why they would6 want to use apache, being that the maintenance is done6 outside and saves them money, plus try to attract unix8 users, but that logic is flawed ... apache on unix/linux7 is just as buggy and convuluted as the unix/linux os ist8 itself ... purveyor has run for 5 years without a SINGLE7 problem ... I will let you know soon how the conversion 7 of purveyor is going for v3 certs and itanium ... if weu4 are successful, I am asking Process to release these9 changes and bundle purveyor with TCPware and multinet ...l9 if they don't have enough sense to do that, then at leastn4 you can buy the code from them and we could arrange 8 something with you to get you the new code ... watch for updates ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:17:56 +0200 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>@ Subject: Re: Tru64 --> OpenVMS rather than another unix platform3 Message-ID: <001801c45432$d469fbb0$994614ac@wat153>j   Hello,   Bob Koehler did wrote:  mC >> Not to mention the many applications which have endian sensitivemA code. A port from Tru64 to VMS would preserve little-endian mode,@ >> port to HP-UX won't.s  C AFAIK there is no problem with endian sensitive code with the AlphamH (it's the same computer as for TRUE64). AFAIK the default is the same as
 under TRUE64.    Best regards R. Wingertv   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2004 07:24:14 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)0@ Subject: Re: Tru64 --> OpenVMS rather than another unix platform3 Message-ID: <+XX+JPW4MIl4@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  ^ In article <001801c45432$d469fbb0$994614ac@wat153>, "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> writes: > Hello, >  > Bob Koehler did wrote: >   D >>> Not to mention the many applications which have endian sensitiveC > code. A port from Tru64 to VMS would preserve little-endian mode,  >>> port to HP-UX won't. > E > AFAIK there is no problem with endian sensitive code with the AlphauJ > (it's the same computer as for TRUE64). AFAIK the default is the same as > under TRUE64.e  H    Exactly.  Only Cray used Alpha (a bi-endian chip) in big-endian mode.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2004 07:01:45 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)0 Subject: Unhackable OpenVMS - a defcon story ...= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0406170601.55ba1b73@posting.google.com>o   OpenVMS StabilityaG deemed unhackable at DEFCON 9 (2001) and told never to return to DEFCONe  ( http://www.vmsone.com/~opcom/defcon9.htm   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:06:25 +0100CO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 4 Subject: Re: Unhackable OpenVMS - a defcon story ...0 Message-ID: <casc1i$9n9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > OpenVMS StabilitysI > deemed unhackable at DEFCON 9 (2001) and told never to return to DEFCON  > * > http://www.vmsone.com/~opcom/defcon9.htm   Still trolling Bob I see.    Regardsg Andrew Harrisonm   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:01:57 -0400i# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t/ Subject: Re: VMS Gets Short Shrift at HP World.e, Message-ID: <h6CdnSYVvefZC0zdRVn-ug@igs.net>   David J Dachtera wrote:" >iH > Then I guess "some" will have to get over the fact that as long as theB > reasons for the complaints persist, the complaints will persist. > D > The solution is simplicity itself, so I'm a bit cinfused as to whyA > these supposedly educated people didn't figure out: stop lying, ; > breaking commitments and refusing to market your product.6 >o. > Do I perhaps need to do a PPT for THEM???!!! >e  L Perhaps then it it time for a .ppt slideshow that can be conceived, producedJ and sent to HP executives worldwide and members of the BoD, entitled "Lies My Vendor Told Me".0   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:31:35 GMTR" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG/ Subject: Re: VMS Gets Short Shrift at HP World. 0 Message-ID: <00A337F7.DF760209@SendSpamHere.ORG>  R In article <h6CdnSYVvefZC0zdRVn-ug@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: >David J Dachtera wrote: >>I >> Then I guess "some" will have to get over the fact that as long as the C >> reasons for the complaints persist, the complaints will persist.s >>E >> The solution is simplicity itself, so I'm a bit cinfused as to whyaB >> these supposedly educated people didn't figure out: stop lying,< >> breaking commitments and refusing to market your product. >>/ >> Do I perhaps need to do a PPT for THEM???!!!d >> >nM >Perhaps then it it time for a .ppt slideshow that can be conceived, producedaK >and sent to HP executives worldwide and members of the BoD, entitled "Lies  >My Vendor Told Me".    K According to a recent article I read from a URL posted here or in a similar K group, it is PPT which is dumbing down management.  You expect them to makenM any sage and or educated decisions when their already feeble minds have been  : further crippled by a Micro$hit PPT brick upside the head? -- wB http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.  -- hK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             y5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" a   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.335 ************************? > it could be running RSX-11M/M+), and either TCP/IP or Kermit.   C Actually, you could probably move the data to a much easier to work G with environment using a PDP-11 and no OS, but again, it really depends ) on what the final intent for the data is.    > 7 >> > Very hard answer, on-site conversion. Very costly.  > G >> Not necessarily as costly as you might think.  Unless the conversion K >> people are going to brin in t