1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 21 Jun 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 342       Contents:# Re: Can't authenticate on Istop.com  Re: delete directory recursive Re: delete directory recursive Re: delete directory recursive Re: delete directory recursive, Re: Impact of CISCO antivirus on VMS hosts ?, Re: Impact of CISCO antivirus on VMS hosts ?, Re: Impact of CISCO antivirus on VMS hosts ?, Re: Impact of CISCO antivirus on VMS hosts ?$ Re: Split I/Os to contiguous file???$ Re: Split I/Os to contiguous file???  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2004 03:38:16 -0000+ From: Burke N.Hare <bounce@asmodeus.yi.org> , Subject: Re: Can't authenticate on Istop.com6 Message-ID: <KH8OIK0J38158.981087963@anonymous.poster>  $ repatch <repatch42@yahoo.com> wrote:  4 >On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 21:54:19 +0000, JF Mezei wrote: >  >> repatch wrote: E >>>         Hehe, right, nice try. Your post basically said: Istop is  >>>         small, isn't& >>> reliable and isn't worth the time. >>  M >> Please quote the text of my message which said that. You are projecting. I O >> mererely said that ISTOP was a non 7/24 shop like most/all other small ISPs. J >> And I went on to say that because they are not so small, they have more> >> hardware than most smaller ISPs (thus more that can fail).  >>  8 >> And I didn't state that they weren't worth the time.  > F >	Read my post again. I didn't say you stated those things, I said youE >BASICALLY stated those things. It's the message you're trying to get . >across that's so sad, not the way you say it. >  > P >> Now, if you feel the need to blast me in order to score enough brownie pointsO >> at ISTOP to raise your standing and reduce chances of being thrown out, then  >> that is another story.  > F >	Check my headers JF, I have NO affiliation with Istop, including notD >being one of their customers. I just don't like seeing someone slagH >someone/something else for no other reason then to make themselves feel >"big".   F You don't understand JF.  To understand JF you have to understand that@ he is all about victimhood.  JF sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JFD everyone is out to get him.  ISTOP is out to get him.  Sympatico wasE out to get him.  Videotron was out to get him.  George Bush is out to C get him.  The USA is out to get him.  Donald Rumsfeld is out to get + him.  Wolfowitz is out to get him.  Get it?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 19:36:48 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>' Subject: Re: delete directory recursive + Message-ID: <40D62DA0.7015A190@comcast.net>    Z wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote: K > > If your shop is so serious about "unsupported" software, it may be well E > > to consider the reason why DELTREE is such an evirnoment could be  > > considered ill-advised.  > B > I don't see the connection you're trying to make between DELTREEB > and freeware.  DELTREE is a legitimate thing to do to clean up a@ > scratch tree.  Can it be misused?  Sure, but so can DELETE and > about 100 other VMS commands.   G This is true of any o.s. How does that differentiuate VMS from anything  else?   J > > Think about it: if that much damage can be done with a single command,H > > does such an important system *REALLY* want to have that capability? > ? > Aren't INITIALIZE, DISMOUNT, DELETE [...] (and many other VMS ) > commands) just as dangerous as DELTREE?   C Depends. What purpose do those commands serve other than to destroy E data?  Now, ask yourself the same question about DELTREE and see what  you come up with.   K >  > Actually, I don't know as I could really call DFU "unsupported" (it is M >  > available through DEC/Q/hp, but you knew that). I once had to correspond J >  > with the author of DFU about functionality that I needed (file lists) >  > Let's see... > A > If I called HP Software Support and said "It seems that DFU has C > corrupted the file structure on one of my disks" would HP fix the ? > problem?  Or would HP say that DFU is not supported software?   E RE-read the original post. If you don't find it there, post again and 
 I'll explain.    D.J.D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 21:10:06 -0500 6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>' Subject: Re: delete directory recursive E Message-ID: <craigberry-691C11.21100620062004@chi.news.speakeasy.net>   G Making no claim about what various sites will or won't allow, I merely  A point out that sites with Perl installed have yet another option:   @ $ perl -e "use File::Path; rmtree(\@ARGV,1,0);" dev:[dir] file1 
 dev:[dir2]  5 An excerpt from the File::Path documentation follows:   ?     the "rmtree" function provides a convenient way to delete a H     subtree from the directory structure, much like the Unix command "rm(     -r". "rmtree" takes three arguments:  F     *   the root of the subtree to delete, or a reference to a list ofI         roots. All of the files and directories below each root, as well   as.         the roots themselves, will be deleted.  E     *   a boolean value, which if TRUE will cause "rmtree" to print a E         message each time it examines a file, giving the name of the   file, H         and indicating whether it's using "rmdir" or "unlink" to remove  it, 5         or that it's skipping it. (defaults to FALSE)   G     *   a boolean value, which if TRUE will cause "rmtree" to skip any   files H         to which you do not have delete access (if running under VMS) orH         write access (if running under another OS). This will change in  the H         future when a criterion for 'delete permission' under OSs other  than+         VMS is settled. (defaults to FALSE)    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2004 20:29:35 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)' Subject: Re: delete directory recursive = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0406201929.62191e3f@posting.google.com>   K Z <z@no.spam> wrote in message news:<10dbdfu941f6jaf@corp.supernews.com>...  > David J Dachtera wrote:  [...] K >  > Actually, I don't know as I could really call DFU "unsupported" (it is M >  > available through DEC/Q/hp, but you knew that). I once had to correspond J >  > with the author of DFU about functionality that I needed (file lists) >  > Let's see... > A > If I called HP Software Support and said "It seems that DFU has C > corrupted the file structure on one of my disks" would HP fix the  > problem?    E No and they couldn't. No one could except you if you have the missing C files in a backup somewhere. Fine, let's say they fix the supported 0 tool. You're still missing your important files.  5 > Or would HP say that DFU is not supported software?    Your files are still gone.   JMHO   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2004 20:34:34 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)' Subject: Re: delete directory recursive = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0406201934.6fb618f3@posting.google.com>   ^ Tony Arnold <tony.arnold@man.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<cb3pe5$17d9$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>...1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: F > > In article <capn80$a66$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, Chris Sharman) > > <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes:   > >  > >  > >>Charles J. Fisher wrote: > >> > >>O > >>>Is there a way in VMS to accomplish an "rm -r" (UNIX), "deltree" (Win95),  R > >>>or "del /s" (WinNT)? I'm a VMS neophyte and I can't find anything to do this. > >>L > >>If you weren't running with an excess of privilege, you'd need to start 9 > >>with $ set file/prot=w:rwed top.dir;,[.top...]*.dir;1 5 > >>then do $ del [.top...]*.*;*,;,;,;,;,;,[]top.dir;  > >>I > >>(add ,; as many times as necessary to cater for the necessary depth).  > >  > > I > > This is an old trick.  I never use it, using a DCL procedure instead. F > > However, I'm curious as to a) why it works, b) if it can always be< > > expected to work in DCL and c) whether it is documented. > >  > F > It's to do with the way DCL applies default file names when parsing = > them. the above is the equivalent of repeating the command:  >  > 	del [.top...]*.*;*  > K > as many times as there are ; in the line. Each ; causes DCL to apply the  @ > default file name which is derived from the first in the list.  C Uh, not quite. The DELETE command accepts only explicitly specified F versions. IOW, sticky defaults don't apply to the version number fieldC for the DELETE command. Also, when sticky defaults *do* apply, they F get their defaults from the previous element in the list, which is not always the first element.    [...]    JMHO   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2004 15:53:51 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)5 Subject: Re: Impact of CISCO antivirus on VMS hosts ? < Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0406201453.9fdeeda@posting.google.com>  u JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<11f2e5f96a617ea00c8bf8e6ef3b4503@news.teranews.com>... 8 > CISCO is about to add new functionality to its routers > m > > http://news.com.com/From+Cisco%2C+self-defense+weapons+for+networks/2100-7355_3-5239359.html?tag=nefd.top  > H > From what I read, CISCO will only pass calls to a/from a host that hasN > approved anti-virus software running on it. (I think there was a list of 3). > O > Remember how some network managers decided to prohibit decnet traffic on LANs  > for "some" reason? > O > Is there a chance that they will now block any VMS originated traffic because + > it doesn't run that anti-virus software ?  > M > How difficult will it be to write software that will make VMS pretend it is M > running one of those approved anti-virus software so that the routers would " > allow VMS to talk to the world ?  ? who cares!  If they don't, then they will lose sales to someone ? who does ... we don't use cisco now, and if they do it, then we 1 will never need to look at them in the future ...    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 23:21:25 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 5 Subject: Re: Impact of CISCO antivirus on VMS hosts ? @ Message-ID: <7e81ba4a5edb67c4ac7d5c2f3f33e99d@news.teranews.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote: A > who cares!  If they don't, then they will lose sales to someone A > who does ... we don't use cisco now, and if they do it, then we 3 > will never need to look at them in the future ...   N Cisco is seen as industry standard. In your shop, VMS may be seen as the forceJ driving other decisions, but in all too many shops, VMS is seen as a strayL animal that is tolerated as long as it can abide by corporate network rules.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 20:03:40 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>5 Subject: Re: Impact of CISCO antivirus on VMS hosts ? + Message-ID: <40D633EC.C868E6D9@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Bob Ceculski wrote: C > > who cares!  If they don't, then they will lose sales to someone C > > who does ... we don't use cisco now, and if they do it, then we 5 > > will never need to look at them in the future ...  > P > Cisco is seen as industry standard. In your shop, VMS may be seen as the forceL > driving other decisions, but in all too many shops, VMS is seen as a strayN > animal that is tolerated as long as it can abide by corporate network rules.  D Unfortunately, the meaning of "industry standard" has become dilutedC over the years and no longer means what it should. It now means, in E large measure, "defacto" - widely used, but not actually specified by G any IT industry standards body (ASNI, IEEE, etc.). That is, common, but H not required by specifications in order to be compliant with a published	 standard.    D.J.D.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2004 21:24:43 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 5 Subject: Re: Impact of CISCO antivirus on VMS hosts ? 3 Message-ID: <pu1CufEYMRCj@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <40D633EC.C868E6D9@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > JF Mezei wrote:  >>   >> Bob Ceculski wrote:D >> > who cares!  If they don't, then they will lose sales to someoneD >> > who does ... we don't use cisco now, and if they do it, then we6 >> > will never need to look at them in the future ... >>  Q >> Cisco is seen as industry standard. In your shop, VMS may be seen as the force M >> driving other decisions, but in all too many shops, VMS is seen as a stray O >> animal that is tolerated as long as it can abide by corporate network rules.  > F > Unfortunately, the meaning of "industry standard" has become diluted4 > over the years and no longer means what it should.  E It follows the Humpty Dumpty rule of meaning exactly what the speaker  wants it to mean.    > It now means, inG > large measure, "defacto" - widely used, but not actually specified by I > any IT industry standards body (ASNI, IEEE, etc.). That is, common, but J > not required by specifications in order to be compliant with a published > standard.   E But even taking that definition "Industry Standard" has a wishy washy C meaning -- only by specifying exactly what standard applies can one  determine compatibility.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 19:59:56 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>- Subject: Re: Split I/Os to contiguous file??? + Message-ID: <40D6330C.125769A3@comcast.net>    Bill Todd wrote: > A > "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message ' > news:40D5B0D7.17EB345F@comcast.net...  > > John Santos wrote: > > > [snip]N > > > As the subject and OP say, the file is contiguous, so window turns don'tJ > > > enter into it.  If a file has fewer extents than the /WINDOWS value,J > > > then there is never any need to window turn.  (HELP says the defaultJ > > > and minimum value for /windows is 7, but even if it were set somehowF > > > to 1, no window returns are ever required for contiguous files.) > >  > > Depends. Check the doc.'s. > > 
 > > D.J.D. > N > I'd say that in this case the onus is on you to provide a specific referenceN > supporting your assertion, since John's statement seems prima facie correct.  E Well, I researched this some years ago and discoeverd that in certain F cases, even contiguous files cannot be completely mapped at $OPEN time< given certain constraints. I no longer recall the specifics.  H You'll need the older versions (V6 or so) of the docset*. See the SystemE Manager's Manual, DCL Dictionary (refrences to the INITIALIZE command G and cross-references to other documentation mentioned there in), SYSGEN G Manual (section relating to disk I/O-related system parameters) and the C Guide to File Applications. You're looking for anything relating to 0 INIT/WINDOWS, MOUNT/WINDOWS, extent caches, etc.  F Repeating my research of four years ago is left as an exercise for the reader.   B I don't recall the specifics and no longer have my notes from that> exercise. I'm just telling you what I recall. The OP indicatedF curiosity, not a deleterious effect on performance. So, I took this as an item of curiosity.   8 In cases of performance impact, log a call with the CSC.   D.J.D.   *:H Many items that could still be considered key have been deleted from theC docset over the years. For example, many sites still use magtape to G exchange info. with other sites, yet the details of ANSI tape labels as D implemented were deleted from the docset circa. V6, and great detail circa V5.2 or so.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 01:28:32 +0000 7 From: David B Sneddon - bigpond <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> - Subject: Re: Split I/Os to contiguous file??? * Message-ID: <40D639C0.3060100@bigpond.com>  & David J Dachtera mentioned in passing:
 	[...snip...] G > Well, I researched this some years ago and discoeverd that in certain H > cases, even contiguous files cannot be completely mapped at $OPEN time> > given certain constraints. I no longer recall the specifics. > @ Contiguous files can have multiple extents.  There is a limit toC the number of blocks that can be mapped by one extent, so depending B on the size of the file, a large contiguous file will be mapped byA a number of contiguous extents.  If the number of extents exceeds B the windowsize for the disk then there will be window turns unless& the open specifies a cathedral window.  
 	[...snip...]    Regards, Dave.  --  I David B Sneddon (dbs)    VMS Systems Programmer     dbsneddon@bigpond.com I Sneddo's quick guide ...          http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/ I DBS freeware at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm I "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennon    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.342 ************************