1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 24 Jun 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 348       Contents:F Re: $SYNCHRONIZE ... why isn't $STATUS the $STATUS from the batch job?F Re: $SYNCHRONIZE ... why isn't $STATUS the $STATUS from the batch job?F Re: $SYNCHRONIZE ... why isn't $STATUS the $STATUS from the batch job?F Re: $SYNCHRONIZE ... why isn't $STATUS the $STATUS from the batch job?F Re: $SYNCHRONIZE ... why isn't $STATUS the $STATUS from the batch job?E Re: $SYNCHRONIZE ... why isn't $STATUS the $STATUS from the batchjob?  Adopt Alpha 1000 - San Diego' Re: ANN: New version of FLIST available ! Re: CAPTURE PID OF PARENT SUBMIT? ! Re: CAPTURE PID OF PARENT SUBMIT? ! Re: CAPTURE PID OF PARENT SUBMIT? ! Re: CAPTURE PID OF PARENT SUBMIT? , Re: CAPTURE PID OF PARENT SUBMIT? (WHAT IF?), Re: CAPTURE PID OF PARENT SUBMIT? (WHAT IF?), Re: CAPTURE PID OF PARENT SUBMIT? (WHAT IF?), Re: CAPTURE PID OF PARENT SUBMIT? (WHAT IF?) Re: delete directory recursive Re: delete directory recursive Re: delete directory recursive Re: delete directory recursive Re: DS20 from Tru64 to VMS Re: DS20 from Tru64 to VMS Re: DS20 from Tru64 to VMS Re: DS20 from Tru64 to VMS Equipment release policy?  Re: Equipment release policy?  Re: Equipment release policy?  Re: Equipment release policy?  Re: Equipment release policy?  Re: Equipment release policy?  Re: Equipment release policy?  Re: Equipment release policy?  Re: Equipment release policy?  Re: Equipment release policy?  Re: Equipment release policy?  Re: Equipment release policy?  Re: Equipment release policy?  Re: Equipment release policy?  Re: Equipment release policy?  Re: Equipment release policy?  Re: Equipment release policy?  Re: Equipment release policy?  Re: Equipment release policy?  Re: JF's Victimhood  Re: JF's Victimhood  Re: Marillion Comeback+ Re: More LAT questions on LAT$SYSTARTUP.COM + Re: More LAT questions on LAT$SYSTARTUP.COM + Re: More LAT questions on LAT$SYSTARTUP.COM + Re: More LAT questions on LAT$SYSTARTUP.COM + Re: More LAT questions on LAT$SYSTARTUP.COM  Re: Mozilla 1.7  Re: Mozilla 1.7  Re: Mozilla 1.7  OT: Compdex 2004 cancelled Re: OT: Sun / Sparc  FUD Problem installing MySQL Re: Problem installing MySQL7 Re: program a serial port to UPS to detect power outage 7 Re: program a serial port to UPS to detect power outage 7 Re: program a serial port to UPS to detect power outage ' Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP ' Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP ' Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP ' Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP ' Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP ' Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP ' Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP ' Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP ' Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP ' Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP ' Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP ' Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP ' Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP ' Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP  SYS$GETRMI system service.& Re: VMS Gets Short Shrift at HP World.& Re: VMS Gets Short Shrift at HP World.& Re: VMS Gets Short Shrift at HP World.& Re: VMS Gets Short Shrift at HP World.& Re: VMS Gets Short Shrift at HP World.& Re: VMS Gets Short Shrift at HP World.C Re: [OpenVMS] BACKUP to two tapes CONCURRENTLY (duplicating data) ? C Re: [OpenVMS] BACKUP to two tapes CONCURRENTLY (duplicating data) ? C Re: [OpenVMS] BACKUP to two tapes CONCURRENTLY (duplicating data) ? C Re: [OpenVMS] BACKUP to two tapes CONCURRENTLY (duplicating data) ? C Re: [OpenVMS] BACKUP to two tapes CONCURRENTLY (duplicating data) ? C Re: [OpenVMS] BACKUP to two tapes CONCURRENTLY (duplicating data) ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2004 13:42:20 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) O Subject: Re: $SYNCHRONIZE ... why isn't $STATUS the $STATUS from the batch job? 3 Message-ID: <P6VlOKrejQQl@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <6iejd0hdjfb5vlkddu14svjgdci0udjj4b@4ax.com>, John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:  N > Although one might argue for an additional qualifier on SYNCHRONIZE to forceN > it to exit with exactly the same status on demand (some users might think itE > "nice" to see how the batch job exited, and I can see their point).   / 	$ ON WARNING THEN EXIT $STATUS .OR. %X0fffffff    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 22:22:09 +0100 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> O Subject: Re: $SYNCHRONIZE ... why isn't $STATUS the $STATUS from the batch job? 8 Message-ID: <62tjd09blqssjo33etogd56m87kt44vfu8@4ax.com>  F On 23 Jun 2004 13:42:20 -0600, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  i >In article <6iejd0hdjfb5vlkddu14svjgdci0udjj4b@4ax.com>, John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:  > O >> Although one might argue for an additional qualifier on SYNCHRONIZE to force O >> it to exit with exactly the same status on demand (some users might think it F >> "nice" to see how the batch job exited, and I can see their point). > 0 >	$ ON WARNING THEN EXIT $STATUS .OR. %X0fffffff  @ I was thinking more of the occasions when you invoke SYNCHRONIZE= interactively.  But yes, wrapped in DCL that will do the job.    --  < Do the impossible and your boss will add it to your duties.    Mail john rather than nospam...    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2004 15:50:22 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)O Subject: Re: $SYNCHRONIZE ... why isn't $STATUS the $STATUS from the batch job? = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0406231450.31b944a3@posting.google.com>   m John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> wrote in message news:<6iejd0hdjfb5vlkddu14svjgdci0udjj4b@4ax.com>... H > On 23 Jun 2004 10:05:08 -0600, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) > wrote: > p > >In article <224291b.0406230422.28b7bf74@posting.google.com>, martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby) writes: > >> Z> I have 2 problems: > >>>  > >>> 1.> > >>> The batch jobs exits with 123 but the $STATUS after SYNC? > >>> returns isn't 123.  It's 123 OR-ed with %x10000000.  This  > >>> is not what I expected.    > >>> E > >> Somewhat unexpected. The bit is set by the function that outputs H > >> a message to indicate that it has already been output and shouldn'tL > >> be output again. Sounds like either the documentation is wrong or there > >> is a bug. > > ; > >It _was_ output - to SYS$OUTPUT of the detached process. < > >Checking in the accounting file should find that bit set. > C > It is clear that, having collected the final status (from the job J > controller, I guess, as the command invokes QUEMAN.EXE), the SYNCHRONIZEL > code then deliberately sets that bit so that when *it* exits with the sameL > status value, no message is displayed, but the user can proceed to examine
 > $status. > K > There is no other way of distinguishing messages from the command itself, J > and messages from the process that the command is targetting, otherwise.N > Although one might argue for an additional qualifier on SYNCHRONIZE to forceN > it to exit with exactly the same status on demand (some users might think itE > "nice" to see how the batch job exited, and I can see their point).    Example run on VMS v6.2:   $ SYNC/ENT=0 %JBC-E-NOSUCHENT, no such entry  $ SH SYM $STATUS   $STATUS == "%X100481DA"    $ TYPE NOENT.COM $ SHOW ENT 0   $ SUBMIT NOENT/AFTER="+::15"F Job NOENT (queue ABCDE$QUE, entry 774) holding until 23-JUN-2004 18:27 $ SYNC/ENT=774 $ SH SYM $STATUS   $STATUS == "%X100481DA"   E In this case, the only way I found to distinguish the two cases is to & capture the message sent to SYS$ERROR.  @ I made a comprehensive study of all such possibilities includingC things like job deleted before execution, queue being reset, notify D job being killed by the $FORCEX service, delete/entry for the targetF or notify job, etc., and wrote a DCL program called NOTIFY.COM. AFAIK,@ NOTIFY.COM correctly distinguishes between target job errors andB notify job errors for all cases. (Bug reports are welcome!) It wasF written for interactive use, however, but could be modified to work in batch mode.   A The purpose of NOTIFY.COM is to submit a batch job that watches a F target job that either is running under another username or is runningE without /NOTIFY. The job then uses REPLY or MAIL to send a message to D your terminal when the watched job completes. This message tells you@ the final status of the target job or gives an error message for" itself if it encounters a problem.  C NOTIFY.COM is freeware on the freeware CD v6. I can email a copy to = anyone if they like. Send requests to spamsink2001@yahoo.com.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2004 17:14:25 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)O Subject: Re: $SYNCHRONIZE ... why isn't $STATUS the $STATUS from the batch job? = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0406231614.5a1fccaf@posting.google.com>   m John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> wrote in message news:<ssmid0lf1thpcajcu0t9j8nkbp1p0e277s@4ax.com>... : > On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:58:47 -0700, Z <z@no.spam> wrote: >  > >I have 2 problems:  > >  > >1. ; > >The batch jobs exits with 123 but the $STATUS after SYNC < > >returns isn't 123.  It's 123 OR-ed with %x10000000.  This< > >is not what I expected.  And that contradicts the OpenVMS > >DCL Dictionary, N-Z:  > >  > > From DCL II-490: > >... > >Description:  > >...= > >The completion status form the SYCNHRONIZE command is that = > >same as the completion status of the last command executed  > >in the job. > >  [...]  > M > Perhaps the documentation is not explaining things very well, but it is not G > as incorrect as you perhaps perceive.  The status value is made up of L > several bit-fields.  The lowest 3 bits are the severity.  Any one "status"M > can thus have up to 8 different levels.  They include values that translate I > to -I-, -W-, -S-, -E-, -F- as seen in typical messages.  Odd values are H > "true", even values "false".  There are then bit-fields for the actualN > message number itself, the facility within which that message is meaningful,L > and finally (in the highest bits), 4 bits that control message output.  InI > this last nibble, the low bit suppresses output when set (it's the only K > defined bit in fact).  Thus, any values that start with 1 (in hex) do not K > display.  You can see this from your SYNCHRONIZE examples.  It is open to L > debate whether this is a good thing or not, but at least it means you willJ > only get an error message when you have entered an erroneous SYNCHRONIZEN > command.  Suppose you misspelt it - you will get %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognizedM > command verb, etc.  How could you distinguish this case from your batch job G > itself dying due to a misspelt command, if they both yielded the same  > message on-screen ?   $ Unfortunately, there are exceptions:   Example run on VMS v6.2:   $ TYPE SHSYM.COM $ SHOW SYM ASDF    $ @SHSYM= %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spelling  $ SH SYM $STATUS   $STATUS == "%X00038140"    $ SUBMIT SHSYM /AFTER="+::15" F Job SHSYM (queue ABCDE$QUE, entry 787) holding until 23-JUN-2004 20:04 $ SYNC/ENT=787= %CLI-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spelling  $ SH SYM $STATUS   $STATUS == "%X10038140"  $   A For some reason, the inhibit-display bit doesn't get set for some ? commands. And this causes the SYNC command to display the error ? message when it shouldn't. But another weird thing is that %DCL 1 somehow got transformed to %CLI. Anyone know why?   N > In general, to properly handle status values within DCL, you should mask offK > the low 3 bits and the high 4 bits, or use F$MESSAGE to extract the field I > you are interested in.  (In fact, the help for F$MESSAGE has an example  > involving SYNCHRONIZE !)  . Well, that depends on exactly you want to do.    JMHO   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2004 19:34:06 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)O Subject: Re: $SYNCHRONIZE ... why isn't $STATUS the $STATUS from the batch job? ; Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0406231834.44d91d@posting.google.com>   m John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> wrote in message news:<62tjd09blqssjo33etogd56m87kt44vfu8@4ax.com>... H > On 23 Jun 2004 13:42:20 -0600, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) > wrote: > k > >In article <6iejd0hdjfb5vlkddu14svjgdci0udjj4b@4ax.com>, John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:  > > Q > >> Although one might argue for an additional qualifier on SYNCHRONIZE to force Q > >> it to exit with exactly the same status on demand (some users might think it H > >> "nice" to see how the batch job exited, and I can see their point). > > 2 > >	$ ON WARNING THEN EXIT $STATUS .OR. %X0fffffff > B > I was thinking more of the occasions when you invoke SYNCHRONIZE? > interactively.  But yes, wrapped in DCL that will do the job.   $ But you need to change .OR. to .AND.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 20:24:06 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>N Subject: Re: $SYNCHRONIZE ... why isn't $STATUS the $STATUS from the batchjob?+ Message-ID: <40DA2D36.33DF6C8B@comcast.net>    Z wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote: B > >>Isn't $SYNCHRONIZE supposed to set $STATUS to the $STATUS fromE > >>the batch job?  See below ...  why am I getting the error message E > >>for exit status 124 (not 123) and why is $STATUS being OR-ed with  > >>%x10000000 ? > >> > >>$ type 15sec.com > >>$ wait 00:00:15  > >>$ exit 123 > >> > >>$ submit 15sec.com? > >>Job 15SEC (queue SYS$BATCH, entry 607) started on SYS$BATCH  > >> > >>$ sync/entry=6074 > >>Job 15SEC (queue SYS$BATCH, entry 607) completed0 > >>%SYSTEM-I-DEVNOTMOUNT, device is not mounted > >> > >>$ write sys$output $STATUS > >>%X1000007B > >  > >  > > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ a = 123 > > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh sym a 3 > >   A = 123   Hex = 0000007B  Octal = 00000000173  > >  > > Get the idea?  > ; > I'm not sure what you're getting at ... yes, I understand . > that 7Bh is 123.  But that's not my problem. >  > I have 2 problems: >  > 1.: > The batch jobs exits with 123 but the $STATUS after SYNC; > returns isn't 123.  It's 123 OR-ed with %x10000000.  This ; > is not what I expected.  And that contradicts the OpenVMS  > DCL Dictionary, N-Z: >  >  From DCL II-490:  > ...  > Description: > ... < > The completion status form the SYCNHRONIZE command is that< > same as the completion status of the last command executed
 > in the job.   C Well, technically, the doc. is correct. There's just somethings you  can't take for granted.   G I usually test that (&$STATUS .AND. %X7FFFFFFF) .EQ. some_value because G that tests only the part of the $STATUS bitmask that I'm interested in.    > 2.: > I'm getting an error message for status 124 or maybe 1229 > (DEVNOTMOUNT) even though I exit with 123.  Why is that  > hapenning?  F Because of what VMS calls "severity". It's in the low-order three bits of the status code:   " $STATUS .AND. 7 .EQ. 0	-W-	WARNING" $STATUS .AND. 7 .EQ. 1	-S-	SUCCESS  $STATUS .AND. 7 .EQ. 2	-E-	ERROR( $STATUS .AND. 7 .EQ. 3	-I-	INFORMATIONAL' $STATUS .AND. 7 .EQ. 4	-F-	SEVERE_ERROR   H You'll also find it in $SEVERITY, until the next that command changes it9 and $STATUS. Severities 5 thru 7 are currently undefined.   A So, yes, odd $STATUS is success (-S- or -I-), even $STATUS is not  success (-W-, -E- or -F-).  " VMS Error messages look like this:  3 %facility_name-severity-message_ident, message_text    These correspond to:  < $ SET MESSAGE/[NO]FACILITITY/[NO]SEVERITY/[NO]IDENT/[NO]TEXT   See HELP SET MESSAGE.    D.J.D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 04:24:07 GMT 6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>% Subject: Adopt Alpha 1000 - San Diego = Message-ID: <HHsCc.76837$II6.4559@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>   E We've got marching orders and will be disposing of assorted equipment  including 2 x Alpha 1000s,J 320mb and 384mb.  I don't expect these to bring in much on the used marketG and am trying to get approval to pass these on to a hobbyist in the San A Diego area.  You'll need to arrange pick up, once I have disposal K authorized, I won't ship these.  I expect this to be a quick timetable once  I have the okay.  Any interest?    --       Andy Bustamante  Remove the ASCII 95s for e-mail    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:24:06 -0500 - From: Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com> 0 Subject: Re: ANN: New version of FLIST available4 Message-ID: <mGkCc.69$fk7.56@bignews5.bellsouth.net>   Hunter Goatley wrote: @ > Thanks to John Powers, a new version of FLIST is now available> > for download.  FLIST is a C and TPU-based file and directory@ > manager (think C-SWING or Windows Explorer for VMS).  John has: > added support for viewing and extracting the contents of= > various archives, including .ZIP and .BCK files.  This is a = > feature I've long-planned but never got around to---thanks,  > John!  > 8 > You can download FLIST from any of the following URLs: > ! > http://www.process.com/openvms/  > < > http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/flist.zip7 > ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/flist.zip 3 > ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/flist.zip  > 0 > And on the other mirrors in the next 24 hours. > : FLIST V2.6-1 is now available.  All the info above remains< true; V2.6-1 fixes a minor bug in one of the new features in) V2.6.  Thanks to John Powers for the fix.    Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ ; <goathunter@GOATLEY.COM>     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:20:04 GMT % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> * Subject: Re: CAPTURE PID OF PARENT SUBMIT?A Message-ID: <EJkCc.27710$eH1.13019667@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>   5 "John Brandon" <brandon@dalsemi.com> wrote in message + news:04062308221746@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com...  > John Vottero writes: > I > > The SUBMIT command returns the entry number in the DCL symbol $ENTRY.  > > J > > Use F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_ENTRY", "JOB_PID", $ENTRY) to get the PID of the job  > > you submitted. > > J > > Remember that there can be a delay between the submit and when the job, > > starts.  (There could even be a reboot). > F > This is NOT the information I want.  I want the sibling batch job to
 report theA > parent batch job PID.  The $GETQUI, $GETJPI, and $ENTRY do not.    Oops, I had it backwards.   L So, you don't want to pass the PID as a parameter because some or all of theG jobs you're submitting expect other values in the parameters. How about  adding  * /NOTE="Submitted by ''F$GETJPI(0, "PID")'"  I to the submit command?  Basically just using /NOTE as an extra parameter.    > # > > And now for the shameless plug: B > > Whatever it is you're doing might be easier if you used JAMS!! > > http://www.mvpsi.com > L > Easier if I use JAMS?  I installed a tracking mechanism a whole lot easier thanB > installing JAMS and it was free.  Please note the word FREE - my
 management
 > likes that.   J Sorry but there's no way that writing an LGI_CALLOUT module is easier thanJ installing JAMS!  And, if all you want to do is track your batch jobs, ourG free license will work just fine.  The free JAMS license only lets JAMS C submit 25 jobs per day but it will track every batch job that runs.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:42:25 -0500 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)* Subject: Re: CAPTURE PID OF PARENT SUBMIT?1 Message-ID: <04062314422588@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   N > So, you don't want to pass the PID as a parameter because some or all of theI > jobs you're submitting expect other values in the parameters. How about  > adding > , > /NOTE="Submitted by ''F$GETJPI(0, "PID")'" > K > to the submit command?  Basically just using /NOTE as an extra parameter.   H Adding the /NOTE is not a bad idea, however I would have to change every command file to do so.  L > Sorry but there's no way that writing an LGI_CALLOUT module is easier than > installing JAMS!    O Actually it was a toss-up; however there was more satisfaction in installing an  LGI than installing JAMS.   ; >  And, if all you want to do is track your batch jobs, our I > free license will work just fine.  The free JAMS license only lets JAMS E > submit 25 jobs per day but it will track every batch job that runs.   K Free license?  25 jobs... well, at least the first 25 jobs would be tracked M then, wouldn't it?  Actually we do a bit more than 25.  Somewhere near 300 an  hour.   @ And the LGI I installed it too tracks every job that executes...     J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 21:38:54 GMT % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> * Subject: Re: CAPTURE PID OF PARENT SUBMIT?A Message-ID: <OLmCc.27763$eH1.13039527@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>   5 "John Brandon" <brandon@dalsemi.com> wrote in message + news:04062314422588@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com... L > > So, you don't want to pass the PID as a parameter because some or all of the K > > jobs you're submitting expect other values in the parameters. How about 
 > > adding > > . > > /NOTE="Submitted by ''F$GETJPI(0, "PID")'" > > B > > to the submit command?  Basically just using /NOTE as an extra
 parameter. > J > Adding the /NOTE is not a bad idea, however I would have to change every > command file to do so.  	 Just put:   ; $ SUBMIT:==SUBMIT/NOTE="Submitted by ''F$GETJPI(0, "PID")'"   , in your system-wide login command procedure.   > I > > Sorry but there's no way that writing an LGI_CALLOUT module is easier  than > > installing JAMS! > C > Actually it was a toss-up; however there was more satisfaction in 
 installing an  > LGI than installing JAMS.  > = > >  And, if all you want to do is track your batch jobs, our K > > free license will work just fine.  The free JAMS license only lets JAMS G > > submit 25 jobs per day but it will track every batch job that runs.  > E > Free license?  25 jobs... well, at least the first 25 jobs would be  tracked L > then, wouldn't it?  Actually we do a bit more than 25.  Somewhere near 300 an > hour.   H JAMS with the free license will track ALL jobs, no limit.  The job limitA only applies to the number of jobs that JAMS can submit in a day.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 20:08:36 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>* Subject: Re: CAPTURE PID OF PARENT SUBMIT?+ Message-ID: <40DA2994.7D0B4F03@comcast.net>    John Brandon wrote:  >  > D.J.D. wrote: L > > I suppose there should be a way to setup an Audit event on a SUBMIT (ACEI > > on a specific queue's ACL?) and filter the audit info later on. Seems  > > the long way around though.  > > 4 > > What's the root problem you are trying to solve? > > 
 > > D.J.D. > O > I currently track all batch jobs using LGI_CALLOUTS.  This information is put Q > into a database for trending and analysis.  Yes, I could use ACCOUNTING however J > the method I have put into place is far more efficient for this purpose. > * > Why the need to identify parent submits? > M > Lets take one of our batch jobs as an example.  This batch job is an Hourly N > Shift batch job - we will call this the parent batch job.  This job executesQ > every hour on the hour.  During execution this parent batch job submits from 30 ; > to 80 batch jobs.  We will call these sibling batch jobs.  > O > The need exists for us to track the start of the parent and the completion of ( > the parent and the sibling batch jobs. > P > Going back to the LGI_CALLOUTS and the tracking mechanism in place.  If it wasP > possible to (easily) identify the parent I could assign a group identification9 > to the siblings thus being able to trace back the jobs.   + Here's another approach you might consider:   E Have the parent batch job create a directory named after its own PID:    For example: ddcu:[20201FB3]   $ PID = F$GETJPI( 0, "PID" ) $ LOG_PATH := ddcu:['PID'] $ CREATE/DIRECT &LOG_PATH  $ SUBMIT/LOG=&LOG_PATH filespec  	. 	. 	.  G You know the "parent"'s approximate start time time from the CDT of the H .DIR. Then, it SUBMITs all of the "children" using /LOG=ddcu:[pid]. Now,H through both DIRECTORY/DATE=(CRE,MOD) and F$FILE( filespec, "CDT" ) or ,? "RDT" ) you have the begin/end times of the batch jobs. To find ' "parents" by time frame, you could use:   ; $ DIRECTORY/DATE=(CRE,MOD)/SINCE=begin_time/BEFORE=end_time   E The parent could, using methods detailed in another thread, track the * completion $STATUS of the jobs, if needed.  5 Just one possibility. I'm sure there are many others.    D.J.D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 13:47:40 -0500 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)5 Subject: Re: CAPTURE PID OF PARENT SUBMIT? (WHAT IF?) 1 Message-ID: <04062313474011@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   
 What if I ...   $ 1) Copy SUBMIT.EXE to SUBMIT_VMS.EXE  ' 2) Create a new SUBMIT.EXE that will...      2.1) Fetch the parent PID      2.2) Fetch the COMMAND LINE   3   2.3) Execute SUBMIT_VMS.EXE with the COMMAND LINE      2.4) Fetch the $ENTRY   #   2.5) Update the tracking database        Have I gone completely MAD?      J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 21:15:51 GMT 1 From: "konabear" <konabearg-newsgroups@yahoo.com> 5 Subject: Re: CAPTURE PID OF PARENT SUBMIT? (WHAT IF?) A Message-ID: <bqmCc.27751$eH1.13035942@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>   
 How about:  0  $ submit = "SUBMIT/NOTE=""''F$GETJPI("PID")'"""   or similar?    Todd5 "John Brandon" <brandon@dalsemi.com> wrote in message + news:04062313474011@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com...  > What if I ...  > & > 1) Copy SUBMIT.EXE to SUBMIT_VMS.EXE > ) > 2) Create a new SUBMIT.EXE that will...  >  >   2.1) Fetch the parent PID  >  >   2.2) Fetch the COMMAND LINE  > 5 >   2.3) Execute SUBMIT_VMS.EXE with the COMMAND LINE  >  >   2.4) Fetch the $ENTRY  > % >   2.5) Update the tracking database  >  >  >  > Have I gone completely MAD?  >  >  > J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  > VMS Systems Administrator , > firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2004 16:21:26 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 5 Subject: Re: CAPTURE PID OF PARENT SUBMIT? (WHAT IF?) 3 Message-ID: <mht3YCLxvdu6@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <04062313474011@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) writes: > What if I ...  > & > 1) Copy SUBMIT.EXE to SUBMIT_VMS.EXE > ) > 2) Create a new SUBMIT.EXE that will...  >  >   2.1) Fetch the parent PID  >  >   2.2) Fetch the COMMAND LINE  > 5 >   2.3) Execute SUBMIT_VMS.EXE with the COMMAND LINE  >  >   2.4) Fetch the $ENTRY  > % >   2.5) Update the tracking database   A You will only catch those who submit via DCL rather than a system ' service call directly within the image.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 21:56:30 GMT % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> 5 Subject: Re: CAPTURE PID OF PARENT SUBMIT? (WHAT IF?) A Message-ID: <i0nCc.27771$eH1.13043080@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>   5 "John Brandon" <brandon@dalsemi.com> wrote in message + news:04062313474011@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com...  > What if I ...  > & > 1) Copy SUBMIT.EXE to SUBMIT_VMS.EXE  % I think the supported approach is to:   4 $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC SUBMIT SYS$SYSTEM:MY_SUBMIT.EXE  ) > 2) Create a new SUBMIT.EXE that will...  >  >   2.1) Fetch the parent PID  >  >   2.2) Fetch the COMMAND LINE  > 5 >   2.3) Execute SUBMIT_VMS.EXE with the COMMAND LINE  >  >   2.4) Fetch the $ENTRY  > % >   2.5) Update the tracking database  >   K You might also consider intercepting the sys$sndjbc call.  I've never tried I this but I know similar things have been done.  There's at least one tool K that would intercept calls to sys$gettim to provide process specific times.    >  >  > Have I gone completely MAD?  >    If you have, you're not alone!   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:58:04 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>' Subject: Re: delete directory recursive + Message-ID: <40DA271B.95A8A8CC@comcast.net>    "Craig A. Berry" wrote:  > - > In article <40D8E394.AEB203C0@comcast.net>, 6 >  David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote: > [snip] > >  2. Perl is "freeware" > : > No, it's open source, and is distributed with a license:  C In this context, "freeware" (in quotes) likely means "not purchased C commercially" and/or "from a known commercial vendor of commercial,  supported software".  E That is, they're looking for accountability more than actual support.    ...IMO.    D.J.D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 01:17:23 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")' Subject: Re: delete directory recursive 6 Message-ID: <00A33CD6.CB0A8213@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  ` In article <40DA271B.95A8A8CC@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: >"Craig A. Berry" wrote: >>  . >> In article <40D8E394.AEB203C0@comcast.net>,7 >>  David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote: 	 >> [snip]  >> >  2. Perl is "freeware"  >>  ; >> No, it's open source, and is distributed with a license:  > D >In this context, "freeware" (in quotes) likely means "not purchasedD >commercially" and/or "from a known commercial vendor of commercial, >supported software".  > F >That is, they're looking for accountability more than actual support. >  >...IMO.  M CSWS_PERL is distributed and supported by HP, and you have a support contract M that covers it if you have a support contract on VMS.  That would really seem L to fit both intent and letter of the OPs requirement, even as you interpret  it.    -- Alan    --  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 21:59:23 -0400 - From: "heuveltjes" <heuveltjes@email.msn.com> ' Subject: Re: delete directory recursive , Message-ID: <40da3758$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  K "Z" <z@no.spam> wrote in message news:10dbabjm78ufl7c@corp.supernews.com...  > Larry Kilgallen wrote:B > > So if you cannot use a freely available DCL command procedure,E > > write your own.  The overhead of using DCL rather than a compiled B > > language is insignificant compared to the overhead of deleting
 > > files. > = > Yes, that's an option.  And, now, looking back, we probably  > should have done that. > ? > But that still leaves us with the unpleasant fact that VMS is ; > missing a feature that many consider standard for an o/s.   = Over lunch I had a change to alert Andy G to this discussion. 9 He agrees it is time to address this. The need is proven. < Yeah DEL/TREE woudl be 'dangerous', but so is DEL [...]*.*.* VMS DELETE would probably 6 - have to walk the tree 'the right way' (leaves first)J - honor file protection (if you do no have the right to delete a file, you can not delete it. Duh!)B - delete directories if they are empty, and only if they are emptyK - 'ignore' directory file protection if the process has the right to change  that protection. No promiss, but good hopes.    fwiw,  Hein.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:27:23 -0700  From: Z <z@no.spam> ' Subject: Re: delete directory recursive 0 Message-ID: <10dkevkjafukt86@corp.supernews.com>   heuveltjes wrote:  > No promiss, but good hopes.    Thanks for the update.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 00:39:43 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> # Subject: Re: DS20 from Tru64 to VMS @ Message-ID: <1cef658bfb6723a9b8a1a4a82e039f55@news.teranews.com>   Robert Deininger wrote: A > I don't think there were ever DS20s that couldn't support VMS.    I I recall a discussion some time ago where Compaq had announced a "special N order" DS20 sold to some corporation/government (big sale) and that particularM "batch" had been made to run only Tru64 (lacking the VMS console features). I D recall this because I had decried such a model, especially since theI anouncement had spoken of a model number that was available with VMS (eg:NI making some of those models bootable with VMS, others not). "DS20" soundsH familiar for this.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:49:04 +0800T, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com># Subject: Re: DS20 from Tru64 to VMST- Message-ID: <87hdt14w73.fsf@prep.synonet.com>w  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:e   > Robert Deininger wrote:$  M >> One simple way to make drives disappear is to have a SCSI ID conflict.  OreC >> a bad cable.  Have you done all the standard SCSI bus debugging?N  A > I believe that in the original post, the writer stated that theeE > system worked fine with TRu64, and it is only when he tried to loade > VMS that it stopped working.  E > Assuming the above paragraph is correct, wouldn't the only possible @ > answer be a problem with VMS drivers not being compatible with= > whatever device was loaded whereas the Tru64 drivers were ?o  F It has those dual SCSI/E'net controllers? I thoought that there was no VMS support for them?y   -- i< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.i@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 05:28:11 GMTo- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>i# Subject: Re: DS20 from Tru64 to VMS @ Message-ID: <81bc3e7b045afe2cc7671db1228444a0@news.teranews.com>   Dirk Munk wrote: > O > Don't you mean the DS20L ? That wasn't a DS20 at all afaik, but a motherboardiP > made by Alpha Computers and adapted by Compaq for Telco customers. There is no' > VMS support for this box, just Tru64.t  L Yep that was it. Would someone who inherits this box as a hobbyist know thatN this is a DS20L though obvious means (label on box), or would one have to takeC a big look at the motherboard to realise that it wasn't a "Digital" 
 motherboard ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 07:29:02 +0200r From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl># Subject: Re: DS20 from Tru64 to VMSe2 Message-ID: <cbdor1$k1v$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>  N Don't you mean the DS20L ? That wasn't a DS20 at all afaik, but a motherboard O made by Alpha Computers and adapted by Compaq for Telco customers. There is no  % VMS support for this box, just Tru64.h   JF Mezei wrote:n > Robert Deininger wrote:e > A >>I don't think there were ever DS20s that couldn't support VMS. p >  > K > I recall a discussion some time ago where Compaq had announced a "specialiP > order" DS20 sold to some corporation/government (big sale) and that particularO > "batch" had been made to run only Tru64 (lacking the VMS console features). IlF > recall this because I had decried such a model, especially since theK > anouncement had spoken of a model number that was available with VMS (eg:eK > making some of those models bootable with VMS, others not). "DS20" sounds  > familiar for this.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 15:39:09 -0500t% From: oneofmany@nix.nix (one_of_many)t" Subject: Equipment release policy?? Message-ID: <oneofmany-2306041539090001@m-0-20.docsis.hbci.com>V  E Our last OpenVMS systems were retired last month. Clients have email, I documents, research databases and proceedures on the system. For the pastPJ twenty-something years, before I released discs for disposal, I would do aH delete/erase on all the discs. (/erase and highwater marking was set forI the life of the volumes as well.) I realize that these techniques are not-J military-secure, but it seemed to be a prudent thing to do. (By 'disposal'I I mean I simply cannot know where these systems are going - most are sold I in public auction or traded-in for an almost negligible amount. The pointQ1 is we do not know where these discs will end up.)d  H I have a new VP who seems completely unconcerned about wiping the discs,E so it seems likely the farm will be 'disposed', as-is, readable filesY? unerased. The systems were simply powered off by a machine roomdG technician, and I am not allowed into the machine room to carry out thedD cleanup. (Political stuff: we have a new regime, new VP, all WindoZeH freaks, all of which are in part responsible for the demise of OpenVMS.)  F Obviously, I feel _terribly_ uncomfortable about this situation and amH building a statement. Posting of policies or just comments regarding theF matter of releasing discs for disposal or resale would be appreciated.  G And I'm sorry for the (albeit feeble) anonymity. I hope you understand.i   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2004 16:26:41 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n& Subject: Re: Equipment release policy?3 Message-ID: <AAXl$k0HBB1C@eisner.encompasserve.org>y  g In article <oneofmany-2306041539090001@m-0-20.docsis.hbci.com>, oneofmany@nix.nix (one_of_many) writes:n  H > Obviously, I feel _terribly_ uncomfortable about this situation and amJ > building a statement. Posting of policies or just comments regarding theH > matter of releasing discs for disposal or resale would be appreciated.  % Just be sure the disks do not containu  ? 	1) anything about your company you would not want a competitor- 	   to knowa  9 	2) anything about your company you would not want to see(" 	   on the front page of the paper  ? 	3) anything some other party (customer, former customer, etc.)s? 	   would not want to see on the front page of the paper, sincen 	   they will sue youw  E Erasing those specific files tends to be expensive, which is why most.7 people take the easy way out -- erasing the whole disk.C   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 16:41:01 -05008% From: oneofmany@nix.nix (one_of_many)1& Subject: Re: Equipment release policy?? Message-ID: <oneofmany-2306041641010001@m-0-20.docsis.hbci.com>e  I In article <AAXl$k0HBB1C@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.netO (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:   ' > Just be sure the disks do not contain  > H >         1) anything about your company you would not want a competitor >            to know > B >         2) anything about your company you would not want to see+ >            on the front page of the papert > H >         3) anything some other party (customer, former customer, etc.)H >            would not want to see on the front page of the paper, since >            they will sue you > G > Erasing those specific files tends to be expensive, which is why mostn9 > people take the easy way out -- erasing the whole disk.a  ? Thanks, Larry. Since there is no way to _know_ that there is novI confidential information, it is correct to presume there is some. Agreed?u   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 17:52:54 -0400 # From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com>c& Subject: Re: Equipment release policy?+ Message-ID: <40D9FBB6.A7575B82@adldata.com>i   one_of_many wrote: > G > Our last OpenVMS systems were retired last month. Clients have email, K > documents, research databases and proceedures on the system. For the past L > twenty-something years, before I released discs for disposal, I would do aJ > delete/erase on all the discs. (/erase and highwater marking was set forK > the life of the volumes as well.) I realize that these techniques are notEL > military-secure, but it seemed to be a prudent thing to do. (By 'disposal'K > I mean I simply cannot know where these systems are going - most are solduK > in public auction or traded-in for an almost negligible amount. The pointc3 > is we do not know where these discs will end up.)g > J > I have a new VP who seems completely unconcerned about wiping the discs,G > so it seems likely the farm will be 'disposed', as-is, readable filesoA > unerased. The systems were simply powered off by a machine roomCI > technician, and I am not allowed into the machine room to carry out the F > cleanup. (Political stuff: we have a new regime, new VP, all WindoZeJ > freaks, all of which are in part responsible for the demise of OpenVMS.) > H > Obviously, I feel _terribly_ uncomfortable about this situation and amJ > building a statement. Posting of policies or just comments regarding theH > matter of releasing discs for disposal or resale would be appreciated. > I > And I'm sorry for the (albeit feeble) anonymity. I hope you understand.o  G If the media is strictly VMS related, any one obtaining it will not be CI able to just pop it into a PC and read it. That is not much of a problem.y  J Of course, if someone is fishing for information from your company files.  Then it can get pretty serious.5  @ Depending on your company, the material on the disks may include< proprietary product information, customer/client data base, = intellectual property, company financials, payroll/personnel e information, etc. : There may be privacy issues affected by HIPAA regulations.> A lot of stuff that a lot of people won't want made available.  < Email is a great source of information for what is going on ; in a company that no one else shoud know (remember Enron). T  B You need to determine if the new VP doesn't care or want to know, A or if the new VP is just unaware of the situation and needs some S advice.D  = You also have to decide what you can and can't do that would iC jeapordize your position in the company. If you have someone else, s< influential, in the company that you can talk to, try it, or2 try posting an anonymous memo within yuor company.   Otherwise leave it alone.p   sol    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2004 17:06:23 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) & Subject: Re: Equipment release policy?3 Message-ID: <8Tbm6RZ7rVqF@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  g In article <oneofmany-2306041641010001@m-0-20.docsis.hbci.com>, oneofmany@nix.nix (one_of_many) writes:gK > In article <AAXl$k0HBB1C@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.netd > (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: >  r( >> Just be sure the disks do not contain >>  I >>         1) anything about your company you would not want a competitors >>            to knows >>  C >>         2) anything about your company you would not want to seei, >>            on the front page of the paper >>  I >>         3) anything some other party (customer, former customer, etc.)pI >>            would not want to see on the front page of the paper, sincel >>            they will sue yout >> rH >> Erasing those specific files tends to be expensive, which is why most: >> people take the easy way out -- erasing the whole disk. > A > Thanks, Larry. Since there is no way to _know_ that there is nouK > confidential information, it is correct to presume there is some. Agreed?t   It depends on the disk.e  G A disk devoted exclusively to holding copies of the VMS Freeware has no G confidential information (by definition).  Making _sure_ nobody has putsF anything else on it because there was space available it not worth the# time, compared to erasing the disk.+   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:36:32 -0400:# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>d& Subject: Re: Equipment release policy?, Message-ID: <dpednWZCRZtumEfdRVn-jw@igs.net>   sol gongola wrote: > one_of_many wrote: >>H >> Our last OpenVMS systems were retired last month. Clients have email,G >> documents, research databases and proceedures on the system. For thegG >> past twenty-something years, before I released discs for disposal, InB >> would do a delete/erase on all the discs. (/erase and highwaterG >> marking was set for the life of the volumes as well.) I realize that B >> these techniques are not military-secure, but it seemed to be aB >> prudent thing to do. (By 'disposal' I mean I simply cannot knowE >> where these systems are going - most are sold in public auction or D >> traded-in for an almost negligible amount. The point is we do not' >> know where these discs will end up.). >>D >> I have a new VP who seems completely unconcerned about wiping the@ >> discs, so it seems likely the farm will be 'disposed', as-is,D >> readable files unerased. The systems were simply powered off by aF >> machine room technician, and I am not allowed into the machine roomD >> to carry out the cleanup. (Political stuff: we have a new regime,G >> new VP, all WindoZe freaks, all of which are in part responsible for  >> the demise of OpenVMS.) >>F >> Obviously, I feel _terribly_ uncomfortable about this situation and@ >> am building a statement. Posting of policies or just commentsG >> regarding the matter of releasing discs for disposal or resale wouldi >> be appreciated. >>> >> And I'm sorry for the (albeit feeble) anonymity. I hope you >> understand. >wH > If the media is strictly VMS related, any one obtaining it will not beB > able to just pop it into a PC and read it. That is not much of a
 > problem. >-D > Of course, if someone is fishing for information from your company( > files. Then it can get pretty serious. >:B > Depending on your company, the material on the disks may include= > proprietary product information, customer/client data base, > > intellectual property, company financials, payroll/personnel > information, etc.U< > There may be privacy issues affected by HIPAA regulations.@ > A lot of stuff that a lot of people won't want made available. >S= > Email is a great source of information for what is going onm< > in a company that no one else shoud know (remember Enron). >cC > You need to determine if the new VP doesn't care or want to know, B > or if the new VP is just unaware of the situation and needs some	 > advice.d > > > You also have to decide what you can and can't do that wouldD > jeapordize your position in the company. If you have someone else,> > influential, in the company that you can talk to, try it, or4 > try posting an anonymous memo within yuor company. >a > Otherwise leave it alone.o     All good points.  L If your company is large enough to have in-house legal counsel, you may wishK to (anonymously or not) bring these issues (especially the privacy ones) toY his attention.  D You may also wish to write a letter to your own attorney and have itG postmarked via registered mail, stating that you did bring the issue ofoK confidential information (customer or otherwise) going out the door unwipedtL and that you brought the matter to the Windoze weenie's attention in writing8 on X date (copy attached). It's called 'cover your ass'.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 16:03:44 -0700 * From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>& Subject: Re: Equipment release policy?2 Message-ID: <LOedneBMdPPRkUfdRVn-sw@mpowercom.net>  2 "one_of_many" <oneofmany@nix.nix> wrote in message9 news:oneofmany-2306041539090001@m-0-20.docsis.hbci.com...wJ > I have a new VP who seems completely unconcerned about wiping the discs,G > so it seems likely the farm will be 'disposed', as-is, readable files  > unerased.W >II Normally your concern would be justified, but in this case your VP may beSH right for the wrong reasons.  Given the very small number of VMS systemsF still in operation, and virtually none of them in what might be termedG "hacker" hands, if you pull the drives from the machines the likelihood I anyone could extract information from a non-Windows format disk is fairly  small.  J Think of it this way, how would you get data off a PDP-10 disk pack if you were handed one tomorrow?   I However, I'd still erase the drives.  Or the directory at the very least./   Jack Peacock   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2004 20:23:37 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)u& Subject: Re: Equipment release policy?3 Message-ID: <N1yOdO9vY2lI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Q In article <40D9FBB6.A7575B82@adldata.com>, sol gongola <sol@adldata.com> writes:i  I > If the media is strictly VMS related, any one obtaining it will not be  K > able to just pop it into a PC and read it. That is not much of a problem.n  E Computer forensic people (and presumably the bad guys as well) search C the entire disk for interesting strings.  The only thing that would B deter this would be if all the data were in RMS indexed files with. both indices and data considerably compressed.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 01:28:12 GMT-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> & Subject: Re: Equipment release policy?@ Message-ID: <65248e26f0c890af07b1e6c7b185ef4b@news.teranews.com>   one_of_many wrote:J > I have a new VP who seems completely unconcerned about wiping the discs,G > so it seems likely the farm will be 'disposed', as-is, readable files  > unerased.   V You are in a difficult situation, especially if you intend to remain at that employer.  I If you could have those systems powered up and then access them from yourdL office to "browse" documents and emails and print some very interesting onesM and leave those on your boss' desk with a note "when you dispose of these VMSfL systems without proper cleanup, this is what the buyer will have access to".  N If you feel your VP would react negatively, then you coudl do the same, but goH over his head as many times as required, all the way to individual board	 members. n  L By allowing a loaded system into foreign hands, your company is allowing itsL intellectual property to go "public" and there might be serious implicatiosnL with regards to copyrights. To retain rights to some IP, a company must show> that it has taken steps to protect that intellectual property.  - Do you have a corporate security department ?   N Is that company unionized ? i am sure the union might love to get its hands onO it and access whatever corporate accounting information that might be in there.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:48:48 -0500n% From: oneofmany@nix.nix (one_of_many)s& Subject: Re: Equipment release policy?? Message-ID: <oneofmany-2306041848480001@m-0-20.docsis.hbci.com>t  I In article <8Tbm6RZ7rVqF@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.netP (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:   > It depends on the disk.o  C I'm concerned about the user discs, a bound volume set. As I hope ItD mentioned, it contains email, research data and research proceedures (programs).    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:53:54 -0500o% From: oneofmany@nix.nix (one_of_many)E& Subject: Re: Equipment release policy?? Message-ID: <oneofmany-2306041853540001@m-0-20.docsis.hbci.com>   A In article <LOedneBMdPPRkUfdRVn-sw@mpowercom.net>, "Jack Peacock"  <peacock@simconv.com> wrote:  4 > "one_of_many" <oneofmany@nix.nix> wrote in message; > news:oneofmany-2306041539090001@m-0-20.docsis.hbci.com...OL > > I have a new VP who seems completely unconcerned about wiping the discs,I > > so it seems likely the farm will be 'disposed', as-is, readable filesw
 > > unerased.  > >iK > Normally your concern would be justified, but in this case your VP may be J > right for the wrong reasons.  Given the very small number of VMS systemsH > still in operation, and virtually none of them in what might be termedI > "hacker" hands, if you pull the drives from the machines the likelihoodcK > anyone could extract information from a non-Windows format disk is fairlyn > small.  E So you are saying that scavenging the disc is unlikely. That's not anuJ adequate assurance. I know from one sale that the buyers were specifically interested in VMS devices.  L > Think of it this way, how would you get data off a PDP-10 disk pack if you > were handed one tomorrow?c  J Are you talking about TOPS* files? For the right $$$, I'm sure it would be a worthwhile venture.   K > However, I'd still erase the drives.  Or the directory at the very least.N   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 01:48:00 GMTa- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> & Subject: Re: Equipment release policy?@ Message-ID: <ee525875de36c40a34bb39f935d2e2c3@news.teranews.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:I > A disk devoted exclusively to holding copies of the VMS Freeware has nocI > confidential information (by definition).  Making _sure_ nobody has putaH > anything else on it because there was space available it not worth the% > time, compared to erasing the disk.l    L Any system that has been around for over a decade will have accumulated lotsL of lint and crud. It may have temporary files leftover thatc ontain criticalN data.  There may be many stray email files in a directory that have no pointerB in MAIL.MAI thus no longer shows in the MAIL utility, etc etc etc.  M I had one customer who chose to take a risk and break their relationship with*J me without *ANY* nondisclosure agreement, and without a proper terminationM agreement to ensure all their data was fully erased. They may have calculated K that I could be trusted, and at the same time told their members that I had H not been cooperative and had not been interested in signing a deal (thusG shifting the blame from them to me). These people were senior corporatesE security VPs from institutions such as Citibank, Bankers Trust, HSBC,aF ABN-AMRO.  So your  VP is part of an elite crowd of incompetant twits.  L (In my case, I was delighted to hear that one of the above had to take earlyN retirement the day the SEC started to ivestigate his bank for having knowinglyU laundered russian mafia money (it was his dept in charge of money laundering issues).o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 00:22:15 GMTM5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) & Subject: Re: Equipment release policy?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2306042027190001@user-105n9e0.dialup.mindspring.com>  A In article <LOedneBMdPPRkUfdRVn-sw@mpowercom.net>, "Jack Peacock"u <peacock@simconv.com> wrote:  3 >"one_of_many" <oneofmany@nix.nix> wrote in messageS: >news:oneofmany-2306041539090001@m-0-20.docsis.hbci.com...K >> I have a new VP who seems completely unconcerned about wiping the discs, H >> so it seems likely the farm will be 'disposed', as-is, readable files >> unerased. >>J >Normally your concern would be justified, but in this case your VP may beI >right for the wrong reasons.  Given the very small number of VMS systemsrG >still in operation, and virtually none of them in what might be termedlH >"hacker" hands, if you pull the drives from the machines the likelihoodJ >anyone could extract information from a non-Windows format disk is fairly >small.0  3 I've bought several used Alpha systems running VMS.>  J There was interesting stuff on most of the accompanying disks.  Some of it  appeared to be very proprietary.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 01:19:21 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>u& Subject: Re: Equipment release policy?< Message-ID: <t_pCc.8364$_F2.2827@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>   one_of_many wrote:K > In article <8Tbm6RZ7rVqF@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.neto > (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: >  >  >>It depends on the disk.b >  > E > I'm concerned about the user discs, a bound volume set. As I hope IhF > mentioned, it contains email, research data and research proceedures
 > (programs).   ? If it contains anything HIPPA (sp??) related, they can be held aE criminally liable if that information gets out. Frankly, any VP that aF does not take prudent measures to ensure the saftey of corporate data H should be terminated immediately.  And a memo to the BoD to that effect  should be sent immediately.i  I Since it also contains email, let me buy the system for pennies and then rH splatter the front page with anything "juicy" that can be found. Better E yet, I could send some of the "research" to the competitor. And make IC sure the BoD knows where it came from...  He won't have a job very  I long...   Or, how about an anonymous (paper) letter to the stockholders, o+ and watch the stock fall through the floor.s  H Send me an email privately and I will personnally send a message to the  BoD.   Michael Austin.:I Tired of hearing about the shear stupidity that abounds in the executive RG divisions of most companies.  Ignorance can be cured - stupidity can't.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 20:33:40 -0500R2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>& Subject: Re: Equipment release policy?+ Message-ID: <40DA2F74.31591F65@comcast.net>    one_of_many wrote: > G > Our last OpenVMS systems were retired last month. Clients have email,uK > documents, research databases and proceedures on the system. For the past L > twenty-something years, before I released discs for disposal, I would do aJ > delete/erase on all the discs. (/erase and highwater marking was set forK > the life of the volumes as well.) I realize that these techniques are not,L > military-secure, but it seemed to be a prudent thing to do. (By 'disposal'K > I mean I simply cannot know where these systems are going - most are sold@K > in public auction or traded-in for an almost negligible amount. The pointE3 > is we do not know where these discs will end up.). > J > I have a new VP who seems completely unconcerned about wiping the discs,G > so it seems likely the farm will be 'disposed', as-is, readable filesUA > unerased. The systems were simply powered off by a machine room I > technician, and I am not allowed into the machine room to carry out theaF > cleanup. (Political stuff: we have a new regime, new VP, all WindoZeJ > freaks, all of which are in part responsible for the demise of OpenVMS.)  G You would have done (may still do) well to write to susan dot skonetski2E at hp dot com (she's on vacation this week, I understand) and let heriC know that yours is a seriously endangered VMS account. Probably toohB little to late, and hp is not likely to take action, but its stillG better than standing idly by and watching idiots make a mockery of EDP.t  H > Obviously, I feel _terribly_ uncomfortable about this situation and amJ > building a statement. Posting of policies or just comments regarding theH > matter of releasing discs for disposal or resale would be appreciated. > I > And I'm sorry for the (albeit feeble) anonymity. I hope you understand.p  D I keep trying to, but unless national security is at stake, what areA folks trying to hide? There ways of saying something while saying-G nothing - politicians and sales-critters have raised it to an art form.m  H I'm sure in your case, it may a question of job security. Just hope yourD bosses don't see themselves in your post and take action you may not like.4   D.J.D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 01:35:48 GMTh- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>T& Subject: Re: Equipment release policy?@ Message-ID: <5db9028f819c6d4d90b0ed0ff67bfd7a@news.teranews.com>   one_of_many wrote:A > Thanks, Larry. Since there is no way to _know_ that there is no K > confidential information, it is correct to presume there is some. Agreed?   G Not really. If the VMS machine was used to control a punch press on thelH manufacturing floor, and the widgets it was programmed to produce are noL longer manufactured or their design changed significantly 5 years ago, thereD there is little chance that those machines would contain proprietary confidential information.e  J However, those machine might contain valuable licences and software serialK numbers, and perhaps original purchase contracts committed your employer toUL ensuring that none of this was transfered to 3rd parties without the expressP consent of the software vendor. Not wiping the drives would break that contract.  L basically, you are stuck with totally incompetent management if they wish toM prevent you from erasing a system's disk drives prior to it being handed overF= to an unknow 3rd party. (and incompetent is being nice here).    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 01:39:43 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>n& Subject: Re: Equipment release policy?@ Message-ID: <d1cfaafcef54b039f7410c5e854535f7@news.teranews.com>  M Another possible approach is for you to write just one memo, adressed to yourlK VP and at least 2 other people ("witnesses") where to decry the decision to0N release the equipment prior to the drives being zapped, provide a few examplesJ of potential damage to the company, but end with a statement that you willO nevetheless comply with any orders given by your boss and not complain anymore.c  N This way, if all hell breaks loose, you have your ass covered and your Boss is` the one the SEC or other angency will investigate and/or accuse of wilfull incompetence/neglect.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 21:17:29 -0500e% From: oneofmany@nix.nix (one_of_many) & Subject: Re: Equipment release policy?? Message-ID: <oneofmany-2306042117290001@m-0-20.docsis.hbci.com>.  I In article <ee525875de36c40a34bb39f935d2e2c3@news.teranews.com>, JF Mezeir% <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:a  iN > Any system that has been around for over a decade will have accumulated lotsN > of lint and crud. It may have temporary files leftover thatc ontain criticalP > data.  There may be many stray email files in a directory that have no pointerD > in MAIL.MAI thus no longer shows in the MAIL utility, etc etc etc.  @ Even with the volume(s) set to /highwater/erase and regular disc" restructuring via backup /noimage?  G Sorry, but I'm certainly feeling 'long of tooth' in this industry aftercB all these years. Funny how uncertainty increases with learning. :)  E Thanks to all who have responded to date. It has been helpfull. Don'ts% stop! There are more ideas, I'm sure.n  J Oh, and while I appreciate the spirit of some suggestions, embarassing theH VP won't help the situation. Humilation assumes comptent receptors. =8^)G This whole thing is really about doing the right thing for the clients.o  " God knows I miss VMS (OpenVMS). :)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 03:00:26 GMT=- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>=& Subject: Re: Equipment release policy?@ Message-ID: <afd143c022ef8882e9d484bd0730256d@news.teranews.com>   one_of_many wrote:C >> Even with the volume(s) set to /highwater/erase and regular disca$ > restructuring via backup /noimage?  N Yes. You can still have stray files leftover from an incomplete operation (forH instance, pressing CTRL-Y to exit from a utility while it was processingN files). Similarly, th TCPIP Services SMTP symbiont will often leave stray mailI files in the SMTP common directory. Backup will happily take them becauserK BACKUP has no idea that they are stray files, it only knows they are files.   L > Oh, and while I appreciate the spirit of some suggestions, embarassing theJ > VP won't help the situation. Humilation assumes comptent receptors. =8^)I > This whole thing is really about doing the right thing for the clients.   K Then it is a question of protecting your own butt, and being able to say "IoM told you so, here is the memo". You should also try to obtain in writing from M your superior a confirmation that he is deniying you the task of cleaning thed7 drives before they hare disposed to to unknown parties.   J If/when all hell breaks loose, you can go to the investigators, lawyere orM whatever and show them those memos and be the hero that tried to protect youre" company (and its customer's) data.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2004 17:51:17 -0000) From: Darrell Larose <cota348@rogers.com>d Subject: Re: JF's Victimhood7 Message-ID: <DBRKTISP38161.5733796296@anonymous.poster>t   Burke N.Hare wrote:a  % >repatch <repatch42@yahoo.com> wrote:  >p9 >>On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 21:54:19 +0000, JF M e z e i wrote:- >> >>> repatch wrote:F >>>>         Hehe, right, nice try. Your post basically said: Istop is >>>>         small, isn't ' >>>> reliable and isn't worth the time.w >>> N >>> Please quote the text of my message which said that. You are projecting. IP >>> mererely said that ISTOP was a non 7/24 shop like most/all other small ISPs.K >>> And I went on to say that because they are not so small, they have more ? >>> hardware than most smaller ISPs (thus more that can fail). > >>> 9 >>> And I didn't state that they weren't worth the time. 0 >>G >>	Read my post again. I didn't say you stated those things, I said youoF >>BASICALLY stated those things. It's the message you're trying to get/ >>across that's so sad, not the way you say it.a >> >>J >>> Now, if you feel the need to blast me in order to score enough brownie
 >>> pointsP >>> at ISTOP to raise your standing and reduce chances of being thrown out, then >>> that is another story. >>G >>	Check my headers JF, I have NO affiliation with Istop, including notsE >>being one of their customers. I just don't like seeing someone slaghI >>someone/something else for no other reason then to make themselves feel> >>"big". >:G >You don't understand JF.  To understand JF you have to understand that A >he is all about victimhood.  JF sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JFiE >everyone is out to get him.  ISTOP is out to get him.  Sympatico was F >out to get him.  Videotron was out to get him.  George Bush is out toD >get him.  The USA is out to get him.  Donald Rumsfeld is out to get, >him.  Wolfowitz is out to get him.  Get it?  O Don't forget Air Canada!  He feels victimized by Air Canada.  He thinks they're O out to get him.  Remember how he went off the deep end when they had that crash O and painted over their name and logo on the aircraft?  That really sent JF overd6 the edge into a tailspin of crazy conspiracy theories.  P And the Canadian rail system.  They're out to get JF too.  He's still crying twoM decades later that they supposedly "killed" his precious Canadian rail system02 (it was all done on purpose to harm him, you see).  O And that poor Canadian Airlines flight attendant who told him to put his windowuO shade down over the middle of the Pacific on the way to Australia 10 years ago.c: He's still crying about that.  She was out to get him too.  O And of course the state of Hawaii is out to get him too because they forced him<O to get off the plane in Honolulu for one hour while they cleaned and catered it  before continuing to Toronto.a  I And the Montreal airport authority is out to get him too.  They shut downaL Mirabel airport and sent all the traffic to Dorval just to screw JF.  It's a conspiracy!C  D And Hewlett Packard and their VMS fiasco, it was all done to get JF.  P And his Hungarian parents left him uncircumcised at birth because they wanted toO torture him and force him to go through the humiliation of getting it done whenaM he was grown up.  It was a conspiracy to make masturbation more difficult forrO him, since he says it was hard to masturbate with an intact penis and he had to0M wait many years until he could get his foreskin cut off so he could play withg his glans better.@  O Not to mention Americans and "their beloved single-occupant SUVs which they useaB only to drive to the Supermarket" which sends JF into convulsions.  N The tragedies never stop when you're a victim and the world is out to get you.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 21:41:32 GMTeD From: "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowTHEKISSINGBANDIT@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: JF's VictimhoodC Message-ID: <gOmCc.11537$bs4.9504@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>v   Darrell Larose wrote:a   > Burke N.Hare wrote:a >e' > >repatch <repatch42@yahoo.com> wrote:S > >o; > >>On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 21:54:19 +0000, JF M e z e i wrote:m > >> > >>> repatch wrote:H > >>>>         Hehe, right, nice try. Your post basically said: Istop is > >>>>         small, isn'td) > >>>> reliable and isn't worth the time.s > >>> B > >>> Please quote the text of my message which said that. You are
 projecting. I:L > >>> mererely said that ISTOP was a non 7/24 shop like most/all other small ISPs.cH > >>> And I went on to say that because they are not so small, they have more@ > >>> hardware than most smaller ISPs (thus more that can fail). > >>>,: > >>> And I didn't state that they weren't worth the time. > >>I > >> Read my post again. I didn't say you stated those things, I said you H > >>BASICALLY stated those things. It's the message you're trying to get1 > >>across that's so sad, not the way you say it.e > >> > >>L > >>> Now, if you feel the need to blast me in order to score enough brownie > >>> pointsH > >>> at ISTOP to raise your standing and reduce chances of being thrown	 out, thent > >>> that is another story. > >>I > >> Check my headers JF, I have NO affiliation with Istop, including notdG > >>being one of their customers. I just don't like seeing someone slagcK > >>someone/something else for no other reason then to make themselves feeln
 > >>"big". > >mI > >You don't understand JF.  To understand JF you have to understand thatwC > >he is all about victimhood.  JF sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF:G > >everyone is out to get him.  ISTOP is out to get him.  Sympatico wasaH > >out to get him.  Videotron was out to get him.  George Bush is out toF > >get him.  The USA is out to get him.  Donald Rumsfeld is out to get. > >him.  Wolfowitz is out to get him.  Get it? >rI > Don't forget Air Canada!  He feels victimized by Air Canada.  He thinks  they're K > out to get him.  Remember how he went off the deep end when they had that- crash-L > and painted over their name and logo on the aircraft?  That really sent JF over8 > the edge into a tailspin of crazy conspiracy theories. >$G > And the Canadian rail system.  They're out to get JF too.  He's still0
 crying twoH > decades later that they supposedly "killed" his precious Canadian rail system4 > (it was all done on purpose to harm him, you see). >lJ > And that poor Canadian Airlines flight attendant who told him to put his windowL > shade down over the middle of the Pacific on the way to Australia 10 years ago.< > He's still crying about that.  She was out to get him too. > F > And of course the state of Hawaii is out to get him too because they
 forced himF > to get off the plane in Honolulu for one hour while they cleaned and
 catered it > before continuing to Toronto.  >oK > And the Montreal airport authority is out to get him too.  They shut down L > Mirabel airport and sent all the traffic to Dorval just to screw JF.  It's ae
 > conspiracy!a >wF > And Hewlett Packard and their VMS fiasco, it was all done to get JF. >eH > And his Hungarian parents left him uncircumcised at birth because they	 wanted toRL > torture him and force him to go through the humiliation of getting it done whenK > he was grown up.  It was a conspiracy to make masturbation more difficultp for.J > him, since he says it was hard to masturbate with an intact penis and he had toJ > wait many years until he could get his foreskin cut off so he could play with > his glans better.  > H > Not to mention Americans and "their beloved single-occupant SUVs which they useD > only to drive to the Supermarket" which sends JF into convulsions. > K > The tragedies never stop when you're a victim and the world is out to geto you. >e    H And don't you forget that JF thinks I am the sEkREt KaBAl behind all his troubles....   --   Best Greg   >n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:36:05 GMTa" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Marillion Comebacki0 Message-ID: <00A33CC0.438E6BE7@SendSpamHere.ORG>  X In article <cbca1a$p2$1@ousrvr3.oulu.fi>, Mikko Putkonen <miputkon@paju.oulu.fi> writes:, >Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote: >> VAXman- wrote:p >> >  L >> > If you like Marillion and other progressive rock, try out Auralmoon.comM >> > internet radio.  You might even hear my DECtalk speak if you listen long, >> > enough. >> > n >rF >> I honestly don't know whether I like Marillion or not, as I've not J >> really heard them much, but I do like what I see and hear on Auralmoon 
 >> so far. >h$ >> Thanks very much for the pointer. >oE >Thanks from here too, albeit late ones.  I've now been listening to iG >that radio quite frequently for a few weeks, and have definitely found B >several artists and works probably worth taking a closer look at.   :)     -- bB http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.a -- VK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe            i5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" h   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:45:52 +0000 (UTC)a6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)4 Subject: Re: More LAT questions on LAT$SYSTARTUP.COM0 Message-ID: <newscache$dn1szh$hrl$1@news.sil.at>  V In article <slrncdh8pb.gj0.njc@wolfgang.uucp>, Neil Cherry <njc@wolfgang.uucp> writes:E >I'm doing some more poking around and I'd like to understand some ofj@ >the stuff I'm reading in the LAT startup file better. I see the >following 2 line: >p% >$ LCP CREATE PORT LTA1: /APPLICATION   . This creates a LTA1: VMS device for later use.7 /APPLICATION is a default qualifier and can be omitted.n  I /DEDICATED would be another qualifier for such an outgoing LAT connectionc/ (aka Host Initiated Connection HIC) VMS device.i  1 >$ LCP SET PORT LTA1: /NODE=server_1 /port=port_1   K This assigns the LAT node name "server_1" and the port name (on "server_1")s$ as "port_1" to the LTA1: VMS device.  G >The machine I'm editing this on is VAX (wow, original thinking ;-) andiF >the other device is a DEC Server called server_1. Does this mean thatD >I now can connect to port_1 of server? Does this get advertised via9 >LAT advertisements? Does this mean anything else? Thanksf  J 1) Yes, you can connect to the (Serial) Port named "port_1" (which may notH be mapped to the physical port 1 but usually is - btw don't change this,G it's begging for confusion problems) of the DECserver named "server_1".oG This is useful for eg. outgoing modems or serial console lines of otherwN systems/routers/[FC-]switches/disk-controllers/modular-data-routers/and-so-on.   	$ COPY LTA1: TT:p 	$ COPY file.cmd LTA1: 	$ SET HOST/DTE LTA1:n  N 1a) You could also assign the VMS device LTA1: to a LAT service (say "modems")G with LCP> SET PORT LTA1: /SERVICE=modems (instead of /PORT and /SERVER)  and use it like before   	$ SET HOST/DTE LTA1::  J and you would be connected to one of the (modem) devices behind the serialK lines which the (or more than one) DECserver(s) assigned (as a pool) to theo: (self created and advertized) LAT service named "modems".   F 1b) You could also assign /PORT and/or /SERVER in addition to /SERVICEB to specify one (or more) specific serial lines in the LAT service.   	LCP>CRE POR LTA1o 	LCP>CRE POR LTA2  	LCP>CRE POR LTA3m9 	LCP>SET POR LTA1/SERVI=modem/SERVER=nyserv/PORT=ModemV92i9 	LCP>SET POR LTA2/SERVI=modem/SERVER=sfserv/PORT=ModemV92 9 	LCP>SET POR LTA3/SERVI=modem/SERVER=sfserv/PORT=ModemV90t  D 1c) You could also connect to a LAT service with another DCL command, (which you cannot use without a LAT service)  7 	$ SET HOST/LAT	modem	[/SERVER=sfserv] [/PORT=ModemV92]E   which is identical toe   	LCP>CREATE PORT LTA1wD 	LCP>SET PORT LTA1/SERVICE="modem" [/SERVER=sfserv] [/PORT=ModemV92] 	$ SET HOST/DTE LTA1:a  G 2) LAT services do get announced by the node(s) (which announces itselfr? with this LAT advertisments, too) which offers this service(s).pL Just to clarify, LAT Host Initated Connections don't need LAT advertisments,= connections to LAT services (which are also HICs) however do.k  K 2a) Look into a DECserver (via a terminal or a PC with a terminal emulationlK connected to a serial port eg. the console port which is by default port 1)-+ and do variations of the following commands3   	Local> HELP 	Local> SHOW NODEy 	Local> SHOW SERVERR 	Local> SHOW SERVICE   	Local> SET PRIVILEGED   	Local>>HELP 	Local>>SHOW NODEo 	Local>>SHOW SERVERf 	Local>>SHOW SERVICE 	Local>>CREATE SERVICE  J 3) If you want to connect to the server itself (and not the devices behindI the serial lines of the DECserver) - your statement "to port_1 or server"eF is not unique (you can connect a terminal to port_1 = ACCESS LOCAL andJ this is different to a connect from a host to port_1 = ACCESS REMOTE) then" this above lines were not helpful.  G Connections to the remote console of the DECserver are not possible viatL LAT (but were possible on compatible devices like the EMULEX TerminalServersK and EMULEX PrintServers - NetQUE and NetJET - via SET PORT ACCESS VIRTUAL).t  I For the remote console you need another (DEC invented) protocol named MOPd9 (or on DECservers with TCP/IP you could also use Telnet).r  F MOP is (like LAT) a (DEC invented) high efficent but LAN only protocolJ and is used for remote booting, remote dumping, remote terminal and remoteP boot/dump triggering not only by DECservers but also by VMS itself (satellites).  : Connecting to the DECserver via MOP requires three things.   a) MOP protocoll b) Ethernet Circuito c) MAC address  D 3a) With DECnet Phase 4, MOP is built-in and is not extra startable.G With DECnet Phase 5, MOP is an entity which must be created and enabledaJ (and requires a ACP process NET$MOP running, which therefor must have beenI started by VMS startup - eg. via system logical "NET$STARTUP_MOP" "TRUE")I   	NCL> CREATE MOP 	NCL> ENABLE MOP  C (this two commands are usually done in NET$MOP_CIRCUIT_STARTUP.NCL)l  E 3b) With DECnet Phase 4, MOP circuits can only be enabled or disabledn  @ 	NCP> DEFINE CIRCUIT EWA-0 SERVICE ENABLED	(permanent = in file)? 	NCP> SET CIRCUIT EWA-0 SERVICE ENABLED		(volatile = in memory)   D With DECnet Phase 5, MOP circuits are entities which must be createdF and enabled. You also specify for which functions you want it enabled.  - 	NCL> CREATE MOP CIRCUIT EWA-0 TYPE = CSMA-CDa= 	NCL> SET MOP CIRCUIT EWA-0 LINK NAME = CSMA-CD STATION EWA-0 G 	NCL> ENABLE MOP CIRCUIT EWA-0 FUNCT = {CONS R, DUMP S, LOAD S, LOOP R}a  K (these three commands are also usually done in NET$MOP_CIRCUIT_STARTUP.NCL)i  I 3c) The Mac Address of the MOP target (eg. DECserver) is used to uniquely(K identify it. If you specify the Mac.Add on the command line you can connecta( to the remote DECserver via MOP directly  J Ph4	NCP> CONNECT NODE dummy PHYSICAL ADDRESS 08-00-2B-34-55-FF [VIA EWA-0]B Ph5	$ SET HOST/MOP/ADDRESS=08-00-2B-34-55-FF/CIRCUIT=EWA-0 [dummy]  J The other option is to assign this required infos (eg. Mac.Add) in a named: entity and specify on the command line then only this name   Ph4	NCP> CONNECT NODE decserverw Ph5	$ SET HOST/MOP decserver  M You do this by storing this info in files (ph4=binary, ph5=text/script files)o  A Ph4	NCP> DEFINE NODE decserver HARDWARE ADDRESS 08-00-2B-34-55-FFe  $ Ph5	NCL> CREATE MOP CLIENT decserver> 	NCL> SET MOP CLIENT decserver ADDRESSES = {08-00-2B-34-55-FF}  - 4) I don't know what else this could mean ;-)y   -- b Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERn% Network and OpenVMS system specialist) E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:56:46 +0000 (UTC)-6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)4 Subject: Re: More LAT questions on LAT$SYSTARTUP.COM0 Message-ID: <newscache$i52szh$hrl$1@news.sil.at>  U In article <40D8A829.2040907@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:eH >Yes, the DECserver advertises the ports available so that from the VAX ) >you can establish this application port.p  I No. Ports do not get advertised. Only LAT services (and LAT nodes) do getaJ advertised. Missing a service advertisement doesn't mean you can't connect> to the port. Missing the node advertisement may prevent it ;-)  J >                                          These names are arbitrary, and  >can be changed.  < Yup. On the DECserver.	eg.	Local>>DEFINE SERVER NAME "DS90M"  K >                You can also connect to the DECserver using NCP by typing:o >t >NCP CONNECT NODE SERVER_1  J This is DECnet Phase 4 syntax and is also not for the LAT protocol but forN the MOP protocol which is used for connecting to the DECserver remote console.  F >which will connect as a console to the DECserver, allowing you to do C >configuration there, but you must know the access password.  Just yK >remember you use CTRL-D to instruct NCP to disconnect when you are done...l  N It's not the "access password", it's the LOGIN PASSWORD (defaults to "access")   just my 0.02   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERi% Network and OpenVMS system specialistn E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 20:00:22 +0000 (UTC)d6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)4 Subject: Re: More LAT questions on LAT$SYSTARTUP.COM0 Message-ID: <newscache$ib2szh$hrl$1@news.sil.at>  b In article <3d4Cc.25957$Nz.1084377@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Chris" <mc.moore@sympatico.ca> writes: >Just an aside;@ >sM >I'm fairly sure that trying to connect from NCP requires that you define theaH >hardware (ethernet) address of the DECserver in the NCP database first.  ? No. You don't need to define the address in the database first.iH You may live without (requires rather long error prone command lines ;-)  I But you need to specify all missing infos - infos you like to omit in then, command line - in the DECnet (MOP) database.   just my 0.02   -- t Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 20:14:44 +0000 (UTC)a6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)4 Subject: Re: More LAT questions on LAT$SYSTARTUP.COM0 Message-ID: <newscache$hz2szh$hrl$1@news.sil.at>  U In article <40D90EE8.3020207@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:o
 >Chris wrote:l >>Just an aside; >>N >>I'm fairly sure that trying to connect from NCP requires that you define theI >>hardware (ethernet) address of the DECserver in the NCP database first.p >eH >Yes, I believe you are correct but I was also presuming that this same G >VAX is the load host for MOM, which if it is, then the MAC's would be e
 >loaded...   No. He is not correct.A (But presuming that the VAX is the load host for the DECserver is- understandable)-  E But being a MOP load host for the DECserver does also not require the F DECserver to be entered in the DECnet database. The DECserver can alsoC be loaded as an unknown MOP client (which is enabled by default butRC can be disabled) because it knows which file it wants - it requestsaE eg. "MNENG3" which the MOP server looks for with the default filespecsH MOM$LOAD:.SYS (Ph4) and MOP$LOAD:.SYS (and/or MOP$NAMED_LOAD:.SYS) (Ph5)J and feeds it over the network (MOP circuit) to the load requesting client.  F A VAX or Alpha satellite doesn't know its image name (and also not theH system root info) and has therefore to be entered in the DECnet database& for a successful remote (MOP) booting.   just my 0.02   -- e Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERo% Network and OpenVMS system specialists E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 20:21:36 +0000 (UTC)n6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)4 Subject: Re: More LAT questions on LAT$SYSTARTUP.COM0 Message-ID: <newscache$xa3szh$hrl$1@news.sil.at>  V In article <slrncdj9aa.iot.njc@wolfgang.uucp>, Neil Cherry <njc@wolfgang.uucp> writes:C >what's the command for ncp on VMS 7.3 on an Alpha. I forget and my  >notes are not well organized.  N Commands are the same on VAX & Alpha (but a different for DECnet Phase 4 & 5).   $ NCP :== $NCP	! Ph4 $ NCL :== $NCL	! Ph5  - >BTW. Thanks to everyone for the information.u >eC >What I'm trying to do is to figure out what lat services are beinge> >advertised so I can make sure they work across and IP networkE >(translating LAT to TCP to LAT). VMS still confuses me a bit but I'm  >learning. a   LCP> SHOW SERVICE/FULL  C LAT/IP Translation can be done by DECservers but could be a pain int? the a** because of timing issues. Try to avoid it and Good lucko   -- I Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 17:45:27 +0000 (UTC)3 From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Mozilla 1.7) Message-ID: <cbcfjn$d4p$2@news.mdx.ac.uk>o  [ In article <EMKdncisG7E8xUTdRVn-jw@adelphia.com>, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes:s >Mike Rechtman wrote:  >t >>Thanks for the release,r >>BUTp >>(from the release notes:)eJ >>Important: Mozilla for OpenVMS requires that local files be in Stream_LF >>record format. FilesI >>of other record formats are not supported and the results of attemptingv >>to use any such file isa
 >>undefined. b >>7 >Mozilla has always had this restriction. It isn't new.  >M  F In that case they are just covering themselves since previous versions' definitely work on non stream_lf files.r  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University  H >And yes, before anyone says anything, the release notes still say 1.5. * >They are in the process of being updated. >I >Colin.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:21:09 -0400e' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>n Subject: Re: Mozilla 1.7. Message-ID: <%%jCc.25$jC1.165@news.oracle.com>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:   H > In that case they are just covering themselves since previous versions) > definitely work on non stream_lf files.w  I It depends what you are doing with the file. Some things work with other eD formats, but some things don't. If it used to work, it still should.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2004 19:56:07 -07009 From: petermacarthurmobile@yahoo.com.au (Peter Macarthur)- Subject: Re: Mozilla 1.7< Message-ID: <8fcfaa8.0406231856.49ad6cd1@posting.google.com>  a Mark Daniel <mark.daniel@vsm.com.au> wrote in message news:<40d8a382$1@duster.adelaide.on.net>...eI > Thanks to VMS Engineering for making Mozilla 1.7 available so promptly.e > ) >    http://www.mozilla.org/releases/#1.7mI Unfortunately there is still no XPrint printing support compiled in. Why?o   :-(3   -- peter   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 01:17:04 GMTo- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>s# Subject: OT: Compdex 2004 cancelleda@ Message-ID: <66ca81b798a96c9bc6fa16f1a600741a@news.teranews.com>  I Excellent article, including pointers to articles for 10 years's worth ofs Compdex shows.  Z > http://news.com.com/Organizer+cancels+Comdex+2004/2100-7341_3-5244406.html?tag=nefd.lede  G Comdex 2004 has been cancelled due to the changing nature of IT and theiL appearance of specialised trade shows. They hope to be able to reform Comdex for a 2005 show.  K I find it interesting when you compare it to DECUS (or whatever ist name is K this week). Any attempts by DECUS to diversify from its core has failed andpK resulted in lower interest since none of the constituencies sees sufficient 1 value for the technology theuy are interested in.c   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2004 21:24:14 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)f! Subject: Re: OT: Sun / Sparc  FUD73 Message-ID: <AFLcddpNpEpQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>o   In article <cbbdsp$7ot$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote:s >> In article <d5abdc5c04db282b037f56ec73425413@news.teranews.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:) >> t] >>>>http://news.com.com/Fujitsu+revs+faster+server+chip/2100-1006_3-5242884.html?tag=nefd.top  >>>nI >>>Fujitsu unveils new SPARC chip at 1.89GHz with 3MB on-chip cache. 90nm Q >>>process. Will appear on servers later this year, sold by both Sun and Fujitsu.dM >>>Sun continues to have some Sparcs built by Texas Instruments (making Sparc @ >>>available from multiple sources, something IA64 can't claim). >>>.L >>>Seems to me that such news kill any/all FUD that some have been spreading6 >>>about the lack of future of the Sparc architecture. >>   >> eJ >> 	A year ago, there were 88 SPARC machines on the SuperComputer Top 500.: >> 	Today there are 3.  SPARC has slid off to irrelevance. >> e
 >> 				Rob >> dE > Ohh my gosh, do you really think that the top 500 list is a measurei$ > of the server industry as a whole.  8 	Gee... you were pretty keen on the Top 500 at one time:  Q http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3A1010FC.7C9F8399%40uk.sun.com&output=gplain   0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.vms@% Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:04:12 +0000l    5 In terms of number of systems in the top500 list its:    1.	IBM 2.	Sun 3.	SGI 4.	Crayt 5.	NEC
 6.	Fujitsu 7.	HDS 8	Compaq   ---e  @ 	But that was then.  Four short years ago you were crowing aboutB 	Sun and HPC.  But Sun has falling fast and hard in the HPC space.? 	They really aren't there anymore.  Retreating and ceding sharei> 	everywhere (if revenue and sales numbers are to be believed).   > C > Lets apply this Youngian logic and see where it gets us shall we.c > ? > NEC and Cray Supercomputers plus a liberal dose of exotic MPPeA > shared nothing clusters deployed in every datacenter worldwide.l > = > Of thats BS but then Youngian Logic isn't up to much is it.t >   7 	Yeah... and your crowing about HPC/Top500 looks pretty. 	funny less than 4 years later.m   				Roby   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jun 2004 19:05:19 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.comr! Subject: Problem installing MySQLt, Message-ID: <cbck9f028mu@enews4.newsguy.com>  ) I'm trying to install the MySQL kit from  L http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/kits/ and everything goes fine until M Step 7 when I'm supposed to run "@[.MYSQL]MYSQL_PRIVILEGES".  It just hangs. eM Trying to run the commands by hand show that it's hanging on the first mysql a command:'    CREATE DATABASE IF NOT EXISTS mysql;t  A Does anyone have any ideas?  I've never messed with mysql before.e   	Zane    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:12:23 -0400t* From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>% Subject: Re: Problem installing MySQL 8 Message-ID: <ganCc.3846$EK5.1754@bignews3.bellsouth.net>   healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:  + > I'm trying to install the MySQL kit from sN > http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/kits/ and everything goes fine until O > Step 7 when I'm supposed to run "@[.MYSQL]MYSQL_PRIVILEGES".  It just hangs.  O > Trying to run the commands by hand show that it's hanging on the first mysql h
 > command:) >    CREATE DATABASE IF NOT EXISTS mysql;t  I Very recently, I ran an installation of MySQL on a DS10L running OpenVMS oB Alpha v7.3-1 and I didn't have any problems with the installation.  L Have you confirmed that step #6 "@[.MYSQL]FIRST_START_MYSQLD.COM" completed 	 properly?t  K That step is what creates the empty database and starts the first instance 0G of the database server as a detached process.  If it fails to complete :! properly, then step #7 will fail.-     -- 0 Chuck Choppb  8 ChuckChopp (at) rtfmcsi (dot) com http://www.rtfmcsi.com  @ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax Greer, SC  29651  , Do not send me unsolicited commercial email.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2004 13:36:23 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)f@ Subject: Re: program a serial port to UPS to detect power outage3 Message-ID: <H+xD47Xa6IHd@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  l In article <4b6ec350.0406230856.39843bae@posting.google.com>, JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow) writes:G > Is there a "template" for writing an OpenVMS DCL process to monitor a H > serial port to an UPS (uninterruptible power supply) to detect a power: > loss to an OpenVMS AlphaServer and prepare for shutdown?  J Brian Schenkenberger offers software to do that for certain brands of UPS.  , http://www.tmesis.com/apc/registration.htmlx   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 00:25:21 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger)h@ Subject: Re: program a serial port to UPS to detect power outageL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2306042030240001@user-105n9e0.dialup.mindspring.com>  = In article <4b6ec350.0406230856.39843bae@posting.google.com>,4- JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow) wrote:p   ...s   >yF >- do others (you) use @SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN with the POWER OFF option?  E Very few Alpha systems implement the firmware hooks to make POWER OFF D work.  It's harmless to request that option on a system that doesn'tF support it, but check your specific system before you assume the power will go off.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 01:42:40 GMTf1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>n@ Subject: Re: program a serial port to UPS to detect power outage< Message-ID: <kkqCc.8393$J%2.1971@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>   Robert Deininger wrote:   ? > In article <4b6ec350.0406230856.39843bae@posting.google.com>,a/ > JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow) wrote:s >  > ...e >  > G >>- do others (you) use @SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN with the POWER OFF option?4 >  > G > Very few Alpha systems implement the firmware hooks to make POWER OFFeF > work.  It's harmless to request that option on a system that doesn'tH > support it, but check your specific system before you assume the power > will go off.  B You wouldn't need the power to go off, the battery depletion will F accomplish that :)... you just want to make sure that SHUTDOWN is run 7 and the system is "down" before the "plug gets pulled".e   Michael Austin.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:36:04 -0400g, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>0 Subject: Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP, Message-ID: <40d9cf98$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  G I'm working the issue. One reason there isn't a copy up now is that theu audio in the WMV file is AC3.aL There isn't a WMV -> Mpeg converter that will move the AC3 audio. I'm trying to get the vendor to give usK either an Mpeg with audio that can be converted or another WMV with non-AC3t audio.  H BTW I am using TMPGEnc plus http://www.pegasys-inc.com/ (pay version) or* TMPGEnc http://www.tmpgenc.net/ (freeware)4 the pay version does Mpeg-2 the free one just Mpeg-1  J in both cases the 7MB wmv becomes a 45MB Mpeg. Does anyone really want the Mpeg?r   -warren     : "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@spyderbyte.com> wrote in message8 news:L2WBc.64693$2o2.3685919@twister.southeast.rr.com...H > Doesn't someone have a converter?  I'll see if I can't find one today. SuetK > is on vacation this week.  I'll try to get approval to post on OVMSorg ifs Ig > can manage to convert it.  >v > KenT >y > -- > Ken Farmer <><
 > OpenVMS.orge >n >e. > <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message, > news:00A33BAC.FA37127B@SendSpamHere.ORG...I > > Accu-Weather video...  It's in some proprietry fucking weendoze videoa > > format!  > >mK > > What is wrong with a standard format.  The VMS@25 (thank you) was .MPG.u > >oK > > HP tries harder and harder to keep us, the faithful, from proselytizingiJ > > VMS.  Have fun when you become just another box seller in the Weendoze > > weirld.  > >y > > -- dF > > http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityG > >                             solutions that others only claim to be.n > > --  4 > > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > >s8 > >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >s >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:42:45 -0400i, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>0 Subject: Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP* Message-ID: <40d9d129@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  K And it isn't a slap in the face. it's trying to get things up as quickly asr! possible. the Mpeg version was ontJ the list of things to do but since the audio problem came up it was deamed$ better to get the current version up and work out the kinks later.t   -warren   : "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@spyderbyte.com> wrote in message8 news:L2WBc.64693$2o2.3685919@twister.southeast.rr.com...H > Doesn't someone have a converter?  I'll see if I can't find one today. SueeK > is on vacation this week.  I'll try to get approval to post on OVMSorg if  I  > can manage to convert it.  >y > Kent >  > -- > Ken Farmer <><
 > OpenVMS.orga >o >s. > <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message, > news:00A33BAC.FA37127B@SendSpamHere.ORG...I > > Accu-Weather video...  It's in some proprietry fucking weendoze videog > > format!o > >AK > > What is wrong with a standard format.  The VMS@25 (thank you) was .MPG.t > > K > > HP tries harder and harder to keep us, the faithful, from proselytizingaJ > > VMS.  Have fun when you become just another box seller in the Weendoze > > weirld.n > >u > > -- sF > > http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityG > >                             solutions that others only claim to be.  > > -- c4 > > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > 8 > >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >t >d   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2004 12:35:54 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)0 Subject: Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0406231135.7ad6c4c0@posting.google.com>o  m bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message news:<d7791aa1.0406221722.193e6ad9@posting.google.com>...tZ > VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A33BCA.6247AC22@SendSpamHere.ORG>... > > ; > > Still, there's no reason for making it WEENDOZE only.  o > > --  F > > http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityG > >                             solutions that others only claim to be.l >  > B > why not windoze only ... it is fine as a client, but that is it!  8 whoa, whoa, whoa ... I said windoze as a client ONLY ...7 not running the backend core business ... and there ares7 thin clients now that run vt emulators (i.e. powerterm) 4 that eliminate the need to virus scan (yahmail works2 great for email) ... so what I am saying is to use5 windoze for it is, a client to vms, and nothing more!o   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:34:07 GMTc" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG0 Subject: Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP0 Message-ID: <00A33CBF.FCF9C88C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  U In article <40D99A99.3010403@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:i >Larry Kilgallen wrote:e >hV >>In article <cbbhoi$a1l$1@lore.csc.com>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> writes: >>   >> >>>Bob Ceculski wrote: >>>    i >>> \ >>>>VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A33BCA.6247AC22@SendSpamHere.ORG>...
 >>>>       >>>>: >>>>>Still, there's no reason for making it WEENDOZE only. >>>>>--tG >>>>>http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityaH >>>>>                            solutions that others only claim to be.
 >>>>>        i >>>>>eD >>>>why not windoze only ... it is fine as a client, but that is it!
 >>>>       >>>> >>>Bob,n >>>t >>>One size does not fit all.s >>>"# >>>You can't just "dis" a platform.i >>>e& >>>So where is the DVD player for VMS? >>>c* >>>Where is the digital audio I/O for VMS? >>>e >>>Webcam for VMS? >>>i >>>Scanner for VMS?t >>>    o >>>  >>P >>Third party vendors want to know -- where is the market to buy such software ? >>I >>Seriously, if someone has a major need for which they would _pay_money_m >>they should discuss it here. >>   >>A >Perhaps you should exchange the location of the word 'major' to:k >.3 >'has a need to which they would _pay_major_money_'o >SJ >because that is exactly what you are suggesting, to move apps that don't H >exist, and the ROI for porting to VMS running on VAX, Alpha, or Itanic G >cannot be cost justified either because the volume doesn't exist (for sG >the developer) or the resources are too demanding and intense for the h >cost (for the user).  >jH >VMS is not a one-size fits all solution, never has (VWS and DECwindows H >proved that), never will be (Linux is the only OS that traceable, year J >by year growth outside of statistical error) and it is those who believe G >otherwise that probably only have one tool in their tool box at home, rD >probably just a hammer...  I have been using VMS for 25 years now, A >Ultrix, DEC Unix/Tru64 for 'bout 10, and Linux for about 8 with hJ >DOS/Windows/OS/2 smeared in there for about fifteen and I haven't always J >enjoyed the non-VMS work, but it is work!  This isn't meant to be a shot C >at anyone, but the OS religious wars are over, yes Windows sucks, dH >Un*x/Linux still exists and is growing, but I honestly have to believe I >that the VMS people that have had problems finding work is because they n. >have refused to diversify their skill sets...  G I started this thread not because I could not play this video on VMS --tE which I cannot but could if it was .MP3 or .AVI.  I wanted to play ittF on my Apple Powerbook G4 17" and be able to take said Apple Powerbook F G4 17" with the movie to show others.  I cannot because QuickTime can-F not play it.  .WMV is Weendoze proprietary and it's a lousy losey for-F mat at that.  I did download a utility that will permit me to view theF file.  I still don't see the reason for the bias.  Also, I'd rather myD second disk of VMS documentation be in some generic ISO-9660 format;F not "For Weendoze".  Weendoze, last I knew, was able to read such CDs.G The *intentionally* broken image links in the .HTML files on these disk-B are also *MOST* annoying.  Why?  Why can't it be more universal?      n --  B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.l -- rK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" l   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2004 12:41:13 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)0 Subject: Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0406231141.1609db5f@posting.google.com>   Z "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message news:<40D99A99.3010403@MMaz.com>...I > Un*x/Linux still exists and is growing, but I honestly have to believe eJ > that the VMS people that have had problems finding work is because they / > have refused to diversify their skill sets...  >  > Barryr  7 why?  What vms people need to do is explain to the ceoss6 and beancounters what vms is and how it can save their7 company money!  You have to sell not only yourself, butu3 vms!  Any job I took from day one would incorporates7 OpenVMS into that companies core background ... to giveo5 them the reliability and security they are now payingg5 thru the nose to try to get, but aren't and can't ... 6 If the owners can't understand that, then best to find7 someone who does, or they will not be in business long!    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 13:34:28 -0700 0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>0 Subject: Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP' Message-ID: <40d986e5$1@cpns1.saic.com>h   warren sander wrote:I > I'm working the issue. One reason there isn't a copy up now is that thes > audio in the WMV file is AC3.oN > There isn't a WMV -> Mpeg converter that will move the AC3 audio. I'm trying > to get the vendor to give usM > either an Mpeg with audio that can be converted or another WMV with non-AC3A > audio. > J > BTW I am using TMPGEnc plus http://www.pegasys-inc.com/ (pay version) or, > TMPGEnc http://www.tmpgenc.net/ (freeware)6 > the pay version does Mpeg-2 the free one just Mpeg-1 > L > in both cases the 7MB wmv becomes a 45MB Mpeg. Does anyone really want the > Mpeg?   G Are we looking at the same file?  The version I have was encoded using iB V7 of the Windows Media codecs, including Microsoft's proprietary A version of MPEG4.  I am not using an AC3 codec to play the audio.l  E I have a program that plays this video just fine on VMS and if I can iG ever get my questions answered about better video performance on VMS I  E can finish and release the port.  As it stands now, even my DS10 has wF trouble keeping up with playing a DVD due to the amount of processing F power needed to display the video.  (If anyone knows of a YV12 to RGB B converter written using the Alpha multimedia instructions I would  appreciate a pointer).  H The video player that comes with VMS seems to work only on pseudo-color I displays so, for me at least, it is pretty useless.  I used to use it on EC 4D20 graphics cards because they support multiple simultaneous bit  F depths but I can't use it on any other card I have because I need the G 24-bit depth and my 4D20s have been retired.  I'd much rather get this EC port finished so that VMS not only has a video player that runs on DE Truecolor displays but one that can play a lot more formats than the c current VMS native one.r  I That being said, I can convert this file to mpeg1 if anyone really wants kH it (does alphavcr support anything other than mpeg1?).  As noted above, E it will be a significantly larger file and I can't test it because I L- have no way to run the native player anymore.   6 Wouldn't folks rather help out on the port of MPlayer?  
 Mark BerrymanD   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 20:50:50 GMTa" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG0 Subject: Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP0 Message-ID: <00A33CCA.B4C42E7F@SendSpamHere.ORG>  [ In article <40d9cf98$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> writes:iH >I'm working the issue. One reason there isn't a copy up now is that the >audio in the WMV file is AC3.M >There isn't a WMV -> Mpeg converter that will move the AC3 audio. I'm trying  >to get the vendor to give usiL >either an Mpeg with audio that can be converted or another WMV with non-AC3 >audio.l >oI >BTW I am using TMPGEnc plus http://www.pegasys-inc.com/ (pay version) orl+ >TMPGEnc http://www.tmpgenc.net/ (freeware)f5 >the pay version does Mpeg-2 the free one just Mpeg-1" > K >in both cases the 7MB wmv becomes a 45MB Mpeg. Does anyone really want thet >Mpeg?  = The AccuWeather.WMV file *I* downloaded was 9.1 MB; not 7 MB..  I FYI, I took an MPEG-1 file of 30MB and converted it into various formats. I (30 MB was the closest to your claim of 45 MB that I could easily find on  my Powerbook.)   Here's what I observed:n  D -- Size --  -- Description type/format --  -- Percent of Original --4  30.0 MB       .MPG / MPEG-1 Movie            100.0%4  22.1 MB       .MOV / QuickTime Movie          73.7%4  12.1 MB       .AVI / AVI Movie                40.3%4   7.9 MB       .MP4 / MPEG-4 Movie             26.3%  E Considering the losey .WMV compression, I'd opt for the MPEG-4 anydaySD and considering the discrepancies in the file sides from what you'veD reported, I'd say that the MPEG-4 is quite comprable in size to that
 .WMV file.  D FYI, after converting all of last year's bootcamp .PPT files into anC Apple Keynote presentation file format, I found that the result wasRC 10% of the original Weendoze file format size.   Weendoze bloatware  at it's best.  c   --  B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.P -- TK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMm            H5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:22:41 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>T0 Subject: Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP' Message-ID: <40D9F4A1.6000003@MMaz.com>h   Bob Ceculski wrote:   [ >"Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message news:<40D99A99.3010403@MMaz.com>...  >  s >aI >>Un*x/Linux still exists and is growing, but I honestly have to believe  J >>that the VMS people that have had problems finding work is because they / >>have refused to diversify their skill sets...V >> >>Barryc >>     >> >l8 >why?  What vms people need to do is explain to the ceos7 >and beancounters what vms is and how it can save theire8 >company money!  You have to sell not only yourself, but4 >vms!  Any job I took from day one would incorporate8 >OpenVMS into that companies core background ... to give6 >them the reliability and security they are now paying6 >thru the nose to try to get, but aren't and can't ...7 >If the owners can't understand that, then best to find 8 >someone who does, or they will not be in business long! >  o >oF I've never had a problem 'selling' VMS in the shops I have worked at, H nor work at today, because I target VMS for requirements where VMS is a H perfect fit.  Trying to sell VMS with VWS so that I can run an obsolete I version of AutoCAD on VMS (like I did ten years ago), well that is plain vC stupid just as is justifying why I must have a Galaxy class system oI running VMS, just so that you can then run a PC emulator like SoftPC (if oE it still exists), so that our high-end RF/Microwave design tools can  I run, since they *ONLY* run on Windows.  Forcing VMS just so that we have e' a pure-play VMS environment is absurd. C  H What many on this list refuse to acknowledge is that VMS didn't win the I war, yes there are powerful arguments for basing systems and enterprises  ? on VMS, as the backbone to the company, but at the desktop and yH workstation side of the house, those blind folks are just going to have I to grow up and realize that Windows, MAC's, Un*x/Linux will be the norm, MF and those skills are required for finding work because finding a 100% F homogeneous VMS environments in a vacuum to all other technologies, I + would challenge, does not exist any more...-  I A closing comment, to say that a business "will not be in business long" tC if it does not run VMS, isn't an argument that 'compels' anyone to oC believe what you have to say when you consider that small business AI represents the majority of the US economy, and I would speculate further  > that of those small business, that the vast majority of those I entrepreneurs have never heard of VMS but their business are running and CI functioning just fine (most likely all on PC's), and in some cases, even rD growing.  Could they have a more robust, secure, and high-integrity E alternative?  Sure, if their apps ran on VMS (which most likely they yI don't) and if they could afford the cost of that solution (which in most -C cases, they can't)...  The math doesn't work.  This isn't like the ]H 60/70's when selling a PDP system to a small business for their 'first' 1 computer was the only/best option on the block...n     Barrye   -- 	  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        C   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:47:17 -0400{2 From: "Jonathan Boswell" <jsb.NOSP@M.cdrh.fda.gov>0 Subject: Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP4 Message-ID: <XLnCc.488$Ny6.1299@mencken.net.nih.gov>  = "Mark Berryman" <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> wrote in message ! news:40d986e5$1@cpns1.saic.com...-  1 [Many interesting comments about MPlayer snipped]6  8 > it (does alphavcr support anything other than mpeg1?).  B From memory, it also supported a thing called motion-JPEG, which IK experimented with a bit using analog SVHS in and out.  The quality with the7I hardware assist card (AV321) was spectacular, and this on a feeble-mindedr Alphastation 200/166.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:44:41 -0400p# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>O0 Subject: Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP, Message-ID: <vp-dnV-LIbxBmkfd4p2dnA@igs.net>   warren sander wrote:E > I'm working the issue. One reason there isn't a copy up now is that # > the audio in the WMV file is AC3.eG > There isn't a WMV -> Mpeg converter that will move the AC3 audio. I'me% > trying to get the vendor to give us E > either an Mpeg with audio that can be converted or another WMV withi > non-AC3 audio. >TG > BTW I am using TMPGEnc plus http://www.pegasys-inc.com/ (pay version)A/ > or TMPGEnc http://www.tmpgenc.net/ (freeware)d6 > the pay version does Mpeg-2 the free one just Mpeg-1 >wC > in both cases the 7MB wmv becomes a 45MB Mpeg. Does anyone reallyi > want the Mpeg?    H I converted it to MP4 and it is 29.8mb. Plays fine in Quicktime, Windows Media player, and Irfanview.  G I used a trial version of http://www.artech365.com/mpeg4maker/index.htmd  D It puts a watermark on the converted video until you purchase a key.  E http://www.irfanview.com/ for a really good donation-ware media tool.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:50:47 -0400-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e0 Subject: Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP, Message-ID: <YfmdnXia8ePWlEfdRVn-jA@igs.net>   Bob Ceculski wrote:s5 > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in messagez; > news:<d7791aa1.0406221722.193e6ad9@posting.google.com>...w. >> VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message/ >> news:<00A33BCA.6247AC22@SendSpamHere.ORG>...u >>>a9 >>> Still, there's no reason for making it WEENDOZE only.  >>> --F >>> http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityG >>>                             solutions that others only claim to be.e >> >>C >> why not windoze only ... it is fine as a client, but that is it!t >p: > whoa, whoa, whoa ... I said windoze as a client ONLY ...9 > not running the backend core business ... and there are 9 > thin clients now that run vt emulators (i.e. powerterm)t6 > that eliminate the need to virus scan (yahmail works4 > great for email) ... so what I am saying is to use7 > windoze for it is, a client to vms, and nothing more!     D And then you run into things on Windows where HP printer drivers areF incompatible with one another, ie. you can't install some different HPK printers on the same machine because the drivers conflict with one another.M  L It's the goofy little Taskbar monitor program they use to monitor ink levelsE and such that seems to cause the conflict because they all want to berK 'detached processes' and nobody at HP aside from the VMS group knows how to  write detached processes.Y  J Turns out that trying to remove the offending printer drivers and registry/ entries corrupts the Windows registry somewhat.   G Best solution to that seems to be re-install Windows and all your apps, K according to HP tech support. Been there, done that, in the past two weeks.  A collossal waste of time.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 00:54:01 GMTa- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP@ Message-ID: <51f80def9818adbf6dea4eb11b144e23@news.teranews.com>   "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:H > VMS is not a one-size fits all solution, never has (VWS and DECwindowsC > proved that), never will be (Linux is the only OS that traceable,h    N Never will be, perhaps. But VMS was one size fits all. It was scalable. And atK the time it got DECwindows, it was ahead of Microsoft Windows both with itsfN word processor (DECwrite, document sharing and the DDIF infrastrucres, network email etc etc.  E It is only because Digital was sabotaged from within (at first due tosI unwillingness to view the PC as competitor, and then outright sabotage byo7 Palmer so that Pfeiffer could buy a downsized Digital).-    K But VMS remains scalable from a technology point of view. And the fact that(L Linux is X windows based does provide VMS with an opportunity to regain manyN of the desktop applications that would again make it viable on the desktop. OfM course, that doesn't solve the problem that the owner of VMS this week is notm interested in VMS either way.p   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 00:44:35 GMTs- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>P0 Subject: Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP@ Message-ID: <f5e300598cbdd0e74bf635a2875fdba9@news.teranews.com>   Nic Clews wrote:I > closely at (say) the digital audio side, I'm taking an analogue source,uC > using a discrete A to D converter to produce my raw digital audio I > signal, which I then want to manipulate, filter, edit, cut into tracks,LI > among other tasks. Mission critical it isn't, the only uptime I requirehH > is during the real time capture and the processing before it's written > to the target media.    N Ahh, but if you are attempting to broadcast some audio and/or video feed, thenM you want a reliable server that scales, that is always available so that your-= customers can always connect to view the live broadcasts etc.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 01:30:15 GMTj- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>s0 Subject: Re: slap in the face again... thanks HP@ Message-ID: <c6d8167bfcb4f333776c9cc92b0351be@news.teranews.com>  ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:e6 >  30.0 MB       .MPG / MPEG-1 Movie            100.0%6 >  22.1 MB       .MOV / QuickTime Movie          73.7%6 >  12.1 MB       .AVI / AVI Movie                40.3%6 >   7.9 MB       .MP4 / MPEG-4 Movie             26.3%    H What compression was used with Quicktime ? (quicktime supports different compression software/scheme).r  M Note that .AVI is just as proprietary as .WMV (both from microsoft), although M it is possible that .AVI is better documented and more "open" than .WMV which 8 is not far from real video in term of business practice.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2004 12:42:48 -0700# From: fernando.vallarino@oca.com.uye# Subject: SYS$GETRMI system service. = Message-ID: <5da5a1ff.0406231142.3b947d0a@posting.google.com>e  C I'm using this system service with the item code RMI$_MODES withoutkD problems in VMS 7.3-1, but the same program running in 7.3-2 returns all 0 (zeroes). ( I'm also using the following item codes: RMI$_SCS
 RMI$_DISKS	 RMI$_PROCiF but the service SYS$GETRMI returns 20 (bad parameter value) with them. Thanks.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2004 12:30:23 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)r/ Subject: Re: VMS Gets Short Shrift at HP World.R= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0406231130.74907cdf@posting.google.com>g  e David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<40D8E313.ADC1A56A@comcast.net>....7 > I passed the OpenVMS ASE exam once a few years back. 1  B Then you could easily pass it again. That was and remains the soleC test required for CSA accreditation -- you simply have to apply fordD certification within a year after passing the test, as I recall. ForD the CSE level, there is a bit more comprehensive SysMgmt test plus aE VMS-specific networking test. But most of the folks here could easilyb pass all of these.   > The certification>H > itself is of little or no value in the job market due to VMS's lack ofF > mind-share - you're certified on something no one knows/cares about; > what's the point?0  D One valuable thing is that HP executives see the statistics, and theE last I looked, OpenVMS certification counts looked quite healthy, andoD that is one indicator to HP executives of the high level of interestC that remains in OpenVMS. It also helps diffuse the belief (not true)> since Y2K) that VMS-skilled people are rare, hard-to-find, and
 expensive.  F And the discounts the CSA or CSE get you at HP World, coupled with the? knowledge gained there, should certainly be of value in the job- market.-  H > week's pay on a symposium that has next to no VMS content. Tough sell,  @ While some content selection work is still underway, the SessionK Catalog at http://www.hpworld.com/conference/cfp/sessions/publicCatalog.jspnB does show at least one VMS hand-on workshop that I would certainlyD judge to be an example of excellent VMS content, and which you might  also find to be of interest: :-)0 SESSION_ID  TITLE            TYPE        SPEAKER9 4038        DCL Programming  HANDSON4HR  David J Dachterav   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2004 15:18:19 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)./ Subject: Re: VMS Gets Short Shrift at HP World.t< Message-ID: <cf15391e.0406231418.b62e1aa@posting.google.com>  e David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<40D8E313.ADC1A56A@comcast.net>... - > a symposium that has next to no VMS contentu  E I looked at the session catalog, and there seems to be quite a lot of F VMS content, in a mix of technical sessions, tutorials, workshops, and	 seminars.R  " Introduction to OpenVMS Technology? How to Assimilate an Integrity Server into Your OpenVMS Cluster>$ Tips for Setting Up SANs for OpenVMS& Why IPF... and Why HP? (Terry Shannon)B HP's Future Server Technology: What's Beyond Marvel and Superdome?	 (Shannon) * VMS Backup Strategies in a SAN Environment Stupid DCL TricksoE OpenVMS: You Can Get There from Here and Other Cool Things You Can Doh
 on OpenVMSD Adaptive Enterprise Environments for OpenVMS Customers: What Do I Do
 to Get There?0> Protect Your OpenVMS Environment with HP OpenView Storage Data	 Protector. OpenVMS I64 Technical UpdateF HP OpenVMS I64 Packaging, Licensing and Business Practices: Directions) for Itanium Architecture-Based HP Systemsd$ OpenVMS I64 ISV Porting Case Studies& OpenVMS Technical Update and Road MapsE OpenVMS Security: What Technologies Are Provided and When to Use Them . OpenVMS Delivers the Adaptive Enterprise Today( OpenVMS SAN/Storage Technical Directions OpenVMS Engineering Panel ? Retaining Your Trust: An Update on the Alpha Customer Assurancee Programd8 OpenVMS Cluster Software Technical Update and Directions+ OpenVMS Cluster LAN Interconnect Monitorings, OpenVMS Disaster-Tolerant Clusters in Action3 Open Source on OpenVMS? It's Easier Than You Think.  OpenVMS Strategy and Directions 1 HP Business-Critical Servers Strategic Directions0* TCP/IP v5.5 and Beyond: A Technical Update4 The Advantages of Using Secure Web Server on OpenVMS? Solutions for Access and Integration to HP OpenVMS Applications 7 An Alpha Administrator's Approach to OpenVMS on Itaniume& RMS Indexed File Tuning and Internals , OpenVMS Alpha and IPF Performance Comparison DCL Programming./ Using Free Tools to Analyze OpenVMS Performancei OpenVMS User Environment s VMS Applications on the PC6 OpenVMS System Management Techniques, Tools and Tricks; Performance and Price/Performance for New EV7 Processors in- AlphaServersA The Adaptive Enterprise: A Practical Approach to IT Consolidationh Projects. Oracle Rdb: Product Strategy and Status Update7 Disaster-Tolerant Cluster Technology and Implementationl) Best Practices for Consolidation Projects ? HP Business Critical Server (BCS) Operating Systems: A Guide to.	 Selectiona  E There are also dozens and dozens of other sessions with content whichdC is likely to be of interest to VMS customers, such as StorageWorks,uE new technologies and trends in the industry, HP product futures, etc.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:52:26 -0500a2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>/ Subject: Re: VMS Gets Short Shrift at HP World.h+ Message-ID: <40DA25C9.FCF304E4@comcast.net>    Keith Parris wrote:_ > g > David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<40D8E313.ADC1A56A@comcast.net>... 8 > > I passed the OpenVMS ASE exam once a few years back. > D > Then you could easily pass it again. That was and remains the soleE > test required for CSA accreditation -- you simply have to apply formF > certification within a year after passing the test, as I recall. ForF > the CSE level, there is a bit more comprehensive SysMgmt test plus aG > VMS-specific networking test. But most of the folks here could easily- > pass all of these.  H Perhaps we should begin to require it of our vendors, though I doubt the? EMCs, IDXes and Cerners of the world would take that very well.D   > > The certificationcJ > > itself is of little or no value in the job market due to VMS's lack ofH > > mind-share - you're certified on something no one knows/cares about; > > what's the point?V > F > One valuable thing is that HP executives see the statistics, and theG > last I looked, OpenVMS certification counts looked quite healthy, andfF > that is one indicator to HP executives of the high level of interestE > that remains in OpenVMS. It also helps diffuse the belief (not true-@ > since Y2K) that VMS-skilled people are rare, hard-to-find, and > expensive.  F Careful there. That's only one indicator, and hardly all-encompassing.  F The few OpenVMS job postings that do appear seldom - if ever - mentionF certifications other than M$ and Cisco, sometimes even the odd Novell.9 So, the perceived demand for cert.'s is likely quite low.   D ...and no, VMS poeple are not rare since the VMS job market began toD evaporate in earnest. hp's continued refusal to market VMS serves to@ exacerbate the situation. That means VMS people must adopt otherE skillsets. So, while they may currently still retain some respectabler$ skills, those will wane with disuse.  C ...and no, VMS people are not expensive. VMS salaries have suffered E greatly in the face of VMS market erosion and over-all salary erosionm# due to outsourcing and off-shoring.t  D The few of us who have (private sector) VMS jobs that actually pay aF living wage live under an almost constant threat of layoff due to hp's? continued denial about VMS's needs to be marketed and ported to1 ubiquitous platforms.o  H > And the discounts the CSA or CSE get you at HP World, coupled with theA > knowledge gained there, should certainly be of value in the jobt	 > market.   % Half of a fortune is still a fortune.a  J > > week's pay on a symposium that has next to no VMS content. Tough sell, > B > While some content selection work is still underway, the SessionM > Catalog at http://www.hpworld.com/conference/cfp/sessions/publicCatalog.jspaD > does show at least one VMS hand-on workshop that I would certainlyF > judge to be an example of excellent VMS content, and which you might" > also find to be of interest: :-)2 > SESSION_ID  TITLE            TYPE        SPEAKER; > 4038        DCL Programming  HANDSON4HR  David J Dachterai  G I'll have to look into that and confirm it officially. I've received no  official notification.   D.J.D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:53:57 -0500M2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>/ Subject: Re: VMS Gets Short Shrift at HP World. + Message-ID: <40DA2625.600E2A79@comcast.net>h   Marty Kuhrt wrote: > W > In article <40CFBF62.4060806@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:t
 > > [snip]L > > And might as well be on the moon for us on the West Coast.  At least theH > > old DECUS Symposia, and yes I attended both coasts faithfully in the9 > > 80's and early 90's, alternated, ergo, 'both coasts.'y > D > I'm a left coaster, and I didn't have a problem.  SWA had a cheap,' > one-stop, flight from OAK to MHT.  YMt   ...and budget...   > MV.   % (I hope I got the attribution right!)e   D.J.D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 01:50:54 GMTt- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>p/ Subject: Re: VMS Gets Short Shrift at HP World. @ Message-ID: <758ec0e74573b873ab1cd8b6a8d280bc@news.teranews.com>   Keith Parris wrote: A > Retaining Your Trust: An Update on the Alpha Customer Assurancem	 > Programi    2 The word "retaining" should have been "regaining".  M Has HP not realised that the history of Alpha both under Compaq and now underrJ HP, and HP total lack of public commitment to rebuild VMS have resulted in customer not having any trust ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 04:09:28 GMTe6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>/ Subject: Re: VMS Gets Short Shrift at HP World. = Message-ID: <YtsCc.76834$LA6.2714@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>C  L What's the point?  Well we get to maintain our status as a reseller.  That's@ the business case.  It also adds some crediblity when I'm makingK recommendations to my customers.  Over that last few years, being certifiedfK has also provided direct benefits in reduced symposium fees.  It doesn't doi3 the dishes, but it does add another tool to my kit.    -- k     Andy Bustamante  Remove the ASCII 95s for e-mail     H > I passed the OpenVMS ASE exam once a few years back. The certificationH > itself is of little or no value in the job market due to VMS's lack ofF > mind-share - you're certified on something no one knows/cares about; > what's the point?s >h > D.J.D.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 20:43:45 +0000 (UTC)u6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)L Subject: Re: [OpenVMS] BACKUP to two tapes CONCURRENTLY (duplicating data) ?0 Message-ID: <newscache$tb4szh$7gm$1@news.sil.at>  l In article <uC2Cc.22024$Yb1.21912@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, "Ken Randell" <kenneth.randell@verizon.net> writes:5 >> But OTOH it is not supported by vms engineering...  >> >> Thanks anyway >tH >I think he's after a 'bundled' solution (i.e., no extra cost).  I don'tD >think he meant to insult 3rd-party ISVs of which there are too few.  / Thanks. Indeed I didn't want to insult anybody.n  0 No extra cost is of course the (first) approach.E And keeping VMS backup instead of any add-on product (LEGATO, ...) iseK the next (I don't like to exchange reliability with easier tape management)t   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERe% Network and OpenVMS system specialistA E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2004 16:27:52 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen):L Subject: Re: [OpenVMS] BACKUP to two tapes CONCURRENTLY (duplicating data) ?3 Message-ID: <BMQ0CfMFb0m5@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  i In article <newscache$tb4szh$7gm$1@news.sil.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:On > In article <uC2Cc.22024$Yb1.21912@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, "Ken Randell" <kenneth.randell@verizon.net> writes:6 >>> But OTOH it is not supported by vms engineering... >>>m >>> Thanks anywaye >>I >>I think he's after a 'bundled' solution (i.e., no extra cost).  I don'tyE >>think he meant to insult 3rd-party ISVs of which there are too few.n > 1 > Thanks. Indeed I didn't want to insult anybody.z > 2 > No extra cost is of course the (first) approach.G > And keeping VMS backup instead of any add-on product (LEGATO, ...) iswM > the next (I don't like to exchange reliability with easier tape management))  A My impression was that some current products use callable Backup,sB despite what they might have used in the past.  Wayne may comment.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 21:42:34 +0000 (UTC) 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)L Subject: Re: [OpenVMS] BACKUP to two tapes CONCURRENTLY (duplicating data) ?0 Message-ID: <newscache$u17szh$4en$1@news.sil.at>  c In article <BMQ0CfMFb0m5@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes::j >In article <newscache$tb4szh$7gm$1@news.sil.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:o >> In article <uC2Cc.22024$Yb1.21912@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, "Ken Randell" <kenneth.randell@verizon.net> writes:.7 >>>> But OTOH it is not supported by vms engineering...t >>>> >>>> Thanks anyway >>>>J >>>I think he's after a 'bundled' solution (i.e., no extra cost).  I don'tF >>>think he meant to insult 3rd-party ISVs of which there are too few. >> a2 >> Thanks. Indeed I didn't want to insult anybody. >> o3 >> No extra cost is of course the (first) approach.tH >> And keeping VMS backup instead of any add-on product (LEGATO, ...) isN >> the next (I don't like to exchange reliability with easier tape management) > B >My impression was that some current products use callable Backup,C >despite what they might have used in the past.  Wayne may comment.a  H That might be good. But how comes that some products do not support ODS5D and others do not support files bigger than 4GB (or was it 2GB ?)...   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERh% Network and OpenVMS system specialistu E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:53:01 -0400b  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>L Subject: Re: [OpenVMS] BACKUP to two tapes CONCURRENTLY (duplicating data) ?6 Message-ID: <1040623193955.62667H-100000@Ives.egh.com>  5 On Mon, 21 Jun 2004, Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:h  K > Is there a chance that at some in the (hopefully near) future, VMS BACKUP M > is able to save data on two (identical) tapedevices IN PARALLEL (with maybeb' > an positional qualifier /DUPLICATE) ?  > + > eg.	$ BACKUP disk: tape1:,tape2/DUPLICATEe > I > Consider a dual (or tripple) site cluster. A backup solution would then H > also be duplicated (just for the case) and backup would be done twice. > D > Currently one must use two jobs, done at different times, (runningE > on different nodes of the cluster) staggered over all of the disks.  > F > With this suggested improvement, the disk I/O is only done once, theE > backup time shorter (if you have enough tape drives for running the J > backup jobs in parallel), the data differences on the tapes not existentI > but maybe the problem is to keep the tape drives streaming in parallel.c >  > J > Consider also, that backup solutions like MDMS/SLS (I don't know ABS) do+ > internally use BACKUP and could win, too.o >  > Silly idea ?   How about a hardware solution?  G One of our customers has a box with 2 or 3 8mm drives on their VAX 6000iG (bought before DEC/HP supported any 8mm drives) that has this built-in.p  @ You can make the box appear to be separate drives or as a single5 drive by pressing some buttons on the front.  When ini@ multiple-drive mode, each drive is handled as a totally separateB unit.  When in single drive mode, it duplicates the output to bothE (or all 3?) tapes.  When you read from the tape in single-drive mode,o@ it actually reads and verifies the 2 (or 3?) drives against eachA other, and returns an error if they differ or if any of them gets 9 an error.  So backup/verify gets you multiple good tapes.e  > When you boot, it appears as MUA0:, MUA1: and MUA2:, but while2 in single-drive mode, MUA1: and MUA2: are offline.  A I think it was made by a company called Contemporary Cybernetics.-< Don't know if they are still around.  I think it came with a< BI bus controller that emulated a TU81 or something similar.   --   John Santosd Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 23:14:08 -05000( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>L Subject: Re: [OpenVMS] BACKUP to two tapes CONCURRENTLY (duplicating data) ?/ Message-ID: <00A33D00.402B3402.3@tachysoft.com>   . >From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsM >Subject: Re: [OpenVMS] BACKUP to two tapes CONCURRENTLY (duplicating data) ?w! >Date: 23 Jun 2004 16:27:52 -0600   j >In article <newscache$tb4szh$7gm$1@news.sil.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:o >> In article <uC2Cc.22024$Yb1.21912@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, "Ken Randell" <kenneth.randell@verizon.net> writes: 7 >>>> But OTOH it is not supported by vms engineering...a >>>> >>>> Thanks anyway >>>tJ >>>I think he's after a 'bundled' solution (i.e., no extra cost).  I don'tF >>>think he meant to insult 3rd-party ISVs of which there are too few. >> B2 >> Thanks. Indeed I didn't want to insult anybody. >> n3 >> No extra cost is of course the (first) approach.@H >> And keeping VMS backup instead of any add-on product (LEGATO, ...) isN >> the next (I don't like to exchange reliability with easier tape management) >rB >My impression was that some current products use callable Backup,C >despite what they might have used in the past.  Wayne may comment.t  J tapesys has always used vms backup and wraps a full tape management systemO around it.  Yes, nowadays we use callable backup as long as the customer systemtO is running 7.1 or later.  If 6.2, we fall back to our earlier pre-API method of L running backup.exe as a subroutine of vmsbu.exe.  But either way, the actualJ backup is performed by the standard vms backup utility and the saveset can< therefore can be restored without tapesys being in the loop.  O tapesys is a totally native vms product.  No databases on billyboxes or eunuchsl@ machines.  No transfer to foreign tape formats on said machines.     --  O ===============================================================================iM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O =============================================================================== P Larry(sniffing):"I smell something awful." Moe:"Yeah, well don't brag about it."O ===============================================================================cN Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   hO ===============================================================================aP Larry(sniffing):"I smell something awful." Moe:"Yeah, well don't brag about it."   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 23:24:15 -0500i( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>L Subject: Re: [OpenVMS] BACKUP to two tapes CONCURRENTLY (duplicating data) ?/ Message-ID: <00A33D01.A9E96F84.1@tachysoft.com>l  7 >From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)r >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsM >Subject: Re: [OpenVMS] BACKUP to two tapes CONCURRENTLY (duplicating data) ? , >Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 21:42:34 +0000 (UTC)0 >Organization: OpenVMS Hobbyist, Vienna, AUSTRIA  d >In article <BMQ0CfMFb0m5@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:k >>In article <newscache$tb4szh$7gm$1@news.sil.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:mp >>> In article <uC2Cc.22024$Yb1.21912@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, "Ken Randell" <kenneth.randell@verizon.net> writes:8 >>>>> But OTOH it is not supported by vms engineering... >>>>>  >>>>> Thanks anywayt >>>>K >>>>I think he's after a 'bundled' solution (i.e., no extra cost).  I don'tnG >>>>think he meant to insult 3rd-party ISVs of which there are too few.o >>> 3 >>> Thanks. Indeed I didn't want to insult anybody.e >>> 4 >>> No extra cost is of course the (first) approach.I >>> And keeping VMS backup instead of any add-on product (LEGATO, ...) iswO >>> the next (I don't like to exchange reliability with easier tape management). >>C >>My impression was that some current products use callable Backup,aD >>despite what they might have used in the past.  Wayne may comment. >iI >That might be good. But how comes that some products do not support ODS5pE >and others do not support files bigger than 4GB (or was it 2GB ?)...P    L I cannot speak for other products, but tapesys 6.1 handles ods-5 just fine. G For that matter, version 5.2 could *back up* ods-5 disks, since it usesPK straight vms backup.  It just couldn't maintain the history correctly.  The I history database was totally redesigned in TS 6.1 to handle the radicallyl- different characteristics of ods-5 filenames.t  D As far as file sizes, tapesys will support whatever vms backup does.     -- nO =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxs: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O ===============================================================================fP Larry(sniffing):"I smell something awful." Moe:"Yeah, well don't brag about it."O ===============================================================================aN Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   -O ===============================================================================<P Larry(sniffing):"I smell something awful." Moe:"Yeah, well don't brag about it."   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.348 ************************