1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 01 Mar 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 121       Contents:P Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEXP Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEX Re: AlphaBios on PWS Re: AlphaBios on PWS. Re: An honest question from a VMS guy about JF. Re: An honest question from a VMS guy about JF Re: ANN: VMS Mosaic 3.7  RE: ANN: VMS Mosaic 3.7  RE: ANN: VMS Mosaic 3.7  RE: ANN: VMS Mosaic 3.7  RE: ANN: VMS Mosaic 3.7 & Re: Contact Info - Mezei Rogue Cancels- Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette 3 Re: Enabling TCP and UDP for Compaq TCP/IP Services  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Interex's Cnet  Ad Re: Interex's Cnet  Ad Re: Interex's Cnet  Ad: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!* Re: Mozilla: contact for VMS-specific bugs! Re: MUMPS/DSM/M for OpenVMS Alpha ! Re: MUMPS/DSM/M for OpenVMS Alpha  MUMPS/DSM/M for OpenVMS Alpha # Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew..... # Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew..... # Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew..... ' Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + RE: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? @ Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?@ Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this?- VMS v7.3-2 Release Notes / PowerStorm 300/350 * WARNING: Your messages are being cancelled. Re: WARNING: Your messages are being cancelled Re: Zip/update Issue Re: Zip/update Issue Re: Zip/update Issue Re: Zip/update Issue RE: Zip/update Issue3 Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so... 3 Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so... 3 Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so... 3 Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so... 3 Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so... & Re: [TCPIP V5.4] Found a bug again ;-)& Re: [TCPIP V5.4] Found a bug again ;-)& Re: [TCPIP V5.4] Found a bug again ;-)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:08:58 +0000 (UTC)7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Y Subject: Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEX ( Message-ID: <c1vu7q$fd6$1@pcls4.std.com>  9 moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes:   " >Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes:  2 >>Both nodes have 1 vote, as does the quorum disk,1 >>expected votes set to 3, quorum therefore is 2.   & >>Ethernet gets, ahem, "disconnected".  1 >>One of the nodes voluntarily exits the cluster.   # >>Question:  which one ?  And why ?   A >I checked the sources.  The node with the higher CSID bugchecks. 0 >(CSID is based on SYSGEN parameter SCSSYSTEMID)  I A correction to my answer: As someone else pointed out, it depends on the F sequence and timing of writes to the quorum file that determines whichF of the two nodes bugcheck.  If a node determines a cluster other than H 'our' cluster wrote the quorum file it checks for dynamic quorum for the# remote cluster, then 'our' cluster. J (dynamic quorum includes the quorum disk).  The first check will fail onceB the other node claims the quorum disk and the system will cluexit.  J My earlier answer is correct but for a different case.  Consider a cluster? of 3 nodes A B C, each with 1 vote, expected_votes=3, quorum=2. K Each node has 2 LAN adapters and each goes to one other node only.  Thus 3  K separate LANs, each connecting 2 nodes (AB BC AC).  Disconnect any one LAN, J let's say BC.  Which node bugchecks?  A cluster AB can form, and a clusterH AC can form, but ABC can't exist since all nodes need direct connectionsI with each other.  Both potential clusters have equal number of votes and  G nodes. In this case, whether B or C bugchecks depends on which has the   higher CSID. --   -Mike    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 15:42:15 +0000 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>Y Subject: Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEX ' Message-ID: <c1vllq$d8d$1@lore.csc.com>    PhilThayer wrote:  >   G > One way you might be able to dictate which system would stay up in is F > be setting LOCKDIRWT higher on one system.  That way the system with6 > the lower LOCKDIRWT is more likely to CLUEXIT first.  ( What? Why? How is that supposed to work?  E LOCKDIRWT is LOCK DIRectory manager WeighT. It is a parameter used to E determine the proportion of the distributed lock database that _this_ H node will act as the directory manager, in relation to the other membersH of the cluster. It forms a deterministic way of a cluster member working? out which node will in the first instance be taking care of the B distributed lock in question. The directory is a LOOKUP operation.  H The only instance I can think of this being observed is a satellite nodeE with a LOCKDIRWT of 0 and a network interconnect, and reconfiguration F determines that it as a non voter is on the "losing" side (0 votes and8 lockdirwt of 0 is typical for a standard configuration).  C As mentioned, I've tried to explain this before. You really have to = understand that the system in a cluster has to throw away any F preconception of how it may or can connect to any other members of theF cluster. Each and every member forms their own picture of the cluster,G and in fact multiple optimal sub clusters (actually discounting some of B the members they could include), and this information is exchangedE between all the members, and when all the members agree they have the C same ("most important") members, reconfiguration completes, and any H "rejected" or not included members will gracefully CLUEXIT. Other peopleH have mentioned more votes, higher SCSSYSTEMID's, I didn't see mention of> software version which also plays a part (higher is more), theG incarnation time also has influence, then timing (or chance) comes into  play.   A But LOCKDIRWT? No. Probably one of the most misunderstood cluster  parameters it is.    --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:29:28 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>  Subject: Re: AlphaBios on PWS ' Message-ID: <404259B8.5AAA72F8@aaa.com>   ' Take the CR2032 battery and restart :-) . Alpha-BIOS is default with a missing (or dead)	 battery..   	 Jan-Erik.      Tom Linden wrote:  > : > Anybody know how to get to the bios before SRM comes up? > Tried the usual F2, F6, DEL    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 18:45:09 -0800 & From: Tom Crabtree <tccrab@sunset.net> Subject: Re: AlphaBios on PWS , Message-ID: <c1u7r201bk8@enews3.newsguy.com>  : > Anybody know how to get to the bios before SRM comes up? > Tried the usual F2, F6, DEL  In SRM console type:  >>>ARC   D Once in AlphaBios, select CMOS setup then F6 for advanced features. * Change SRM console selection to AlphaBios.' F10 to save changes, power down system. # Will boot to AlphaBios from now on.    T    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:27:42 +0100, From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl>7 Subject: Re: An honest question from a VMS guy about JF : Message-ID: <c1vrpq$1ndpku$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>  0 "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> schreef in bericht6 news:XBJ0c.175358$Po1.91298@twister.tampabay.rr.com...G > What is all this garbage about JF Mezei and how can it go on so long?  ThisD > makes me think I am reading a PC newsgroup instead of a VMS group. >  > ) Do what all of us do: ignore the cowards.  Do NOT feed the troll.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 09:50:25 -0800 & From: Tom Crabtree <tccrab@sunset.net>7 Subject: Re: An honest question from a VMS guy about JF , Message-ID: <c1vt3s01a9k@enews2.newsguy.com>   John N. wrote:M > What is all this garbage about JF Mezei and how can it go on so long?  This D > makes me think I am reading a PC newsgroup instead of a VMS group.  I Although JF is a respected member in good standing in the VMS community,  E he's obviously not as revered in other domains.  It appears that his  H views and opinions in these 'other arenas' have gotten the attention of F some twisted psychopath who's making it his/her life work of smearing E good old JF's reputation.  It could happen to any of us.  That's why  G today's lexicon includes such notables as "Psycho-Hose-Beast", "Wack",   "Cyber-Stalker" to name a few.4 The 'net is a big place with lots of places to hide.   T    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:15:22 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>  Subject: Re: ANN: VMS Mosaic 3.7) Message-ID: <40423A49.762642E8@istop.com>    remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: >   if (nbytes <= 0) {	 > ......^ R > %CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE, In this statement, the unsigned expression "nbytes" is beingR >  compared with a relational operator to a constant whose value is not greater th0 > an zero.  This might not be what you intended.K > at line number 97 in file DISK$SOFT:[MOSAIC3_7.ALPHA.LIBJPEG]JDATASRC.C;1     K I *suspect* nbytes might have been declare as an unsigned integer, in which N case, it would never be below 0. However, the comparison will still be true if nbytes would be equal to 0.    ------------------------------   Date: 29 Feb 04 15:16:43 EST) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook)   Subject: RE: ANN: VMS Mosaic 3.7! Message-ID: <VQlmgBvVewsn@wvnvms>   f In article <c1t3ke$jog$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:- > cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) wrote:   > 1 >> Release 3.7 of VMS Mosaic is now available at:  >>  1 >>     ftp://alpha.wvnet.edu/mosaic/mosaic3_7.zip  >>  E >> VMS Mosaic is a GUI web browser.  It supports HTML V4.0 (including G >> tables and frames), animated GIFs, cookies, secure connections, etc. F >> It does not support Java, JavaScript or style sheets.  A C compiler >> is required to build it.  >  > Anyway, on my system:  > . >    Compaq C V6.2-008 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 >  > I get the following messages:  > > > CC/DECC/NoDebug/Optimize/OBJECT=ODIR:JDATASRC.OBJ JDATASRC.C >  >   if (nbytes <= 0) {	 > ......^ R > %CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE, In this statement, the unsigned expression "nbytes" is beingR >  compared with a relational operator to a constant whose value is not greater th0 > an zero.  This might not be what you intended.K > at line number 97 in file DISK$SOFT:[MOSAIC3_7.ALPHA.LIBJPEG]JDATASRC.C;1  > # > Is this something to worry about?   G No, as others have said, nbytes is unsigned so the compiler is pointing H out that the "<" makes no sense.  The messages all occur in the standardJ IJG Jpeg library code which has not been modified since 1996 or so.  I tryG not to mess with that code unless something is actually broken, however F suppressing these messages in that particular library is on my list of
 things to do.      George Cook    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:11:16 -05000 From: "Brian Tillman" <Tillman@sparkingwire.com>  Subject: RE: ANN: VMS Mosaic 3.7. Message-ID: <01297EEF.C22236@sparkingwire.com>  J I'd be grateful for a set of Alpha object files so that I can link the new5 Mosaic on my Alpha.  I don't have a C compiler there.  --  
 Brian Tillman    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 2004 09:11:09 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)   Subject: RE: ANN: VMS Mosaic 3.73 Message-ID: <DYYv$ntlREzr@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <c1t3ke$jog$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: >   if (nbytes <= 0) {	 > ......^ R > %CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE, In this statement, the unsigned expression "nbytes" is beingR >  compared with a relational operator to a constant whose value is not greater th0 > an zero.  This might not be what you intended.K > at line number 97 in file DISK$SOFT:[MOSAIC3_7.ALPHA.LIBJPEG]JDATASRC.C;1  > # > Is this something to worry about?   L    QUESTCOMPARE is common in free software.  GNU utilities are full of them.H    As the -I- indicates, this is Information, not Error or Warning.  TheG    code will do what it has always done, which in this case is that the H    if condition can never be true.  This goes all the way back to K&R C,G    an unsigned cannot be less than 0.  Most compilers just don't bother :    telling the developer what a foolish thing he has done.  G    I have never had to fix a QUESTCOMPARE to get code to run correctly. 1    I do wish other folks had compilers this good.    ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:16:41 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)  Subject: RE: ANN: VMS Mosaic 3.7$ Message-ID: <c1vr5p$nvp$1@online.de>  > In article <01297EEF.C22236@sparkingwire.com>, "Brian Tillman"# <Tillman@sparkingwire.com> writes:    L > I'd be grateful for a set of Alpha object files so that I can link the new7 > Mosaic on my Alpha.  I don't have a C compiler there.   F I'm happy to oblige, but need some more information.  I built it under? 7.3-1 and found that it didn't run under 7.2-1 due to a version C mismatch.  I thus built it under 7.2-1 again.  Which version do you  want?   E Maybe you could link the object files, but not having looked into the E relatively complex build procedure in detail, it might be better if I H just sent you the whole tree, source, object files, executables and all.C You could then try to edit the build procedure and relink it if you  want.   H I did make some changes to local.config, which won't be appropriate for E you.  You can override them in another configuration file, of course.   I Since my 255/233 (not fast by today's standards anyway) is still waiting  I for a new capacitor, I have to build on a slower machine which is always  E in use.  If you want and have some more time, you could send me your  1 local.config and I could build it custom for you.   ' Of course, it runs on VAX as well.  :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 21:07:53 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>/ Subject: Re: Contact Info - Mezei Rogue Cancels 6 Message-ID: <4042A909.E091998F@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Warning wrote: > K > If you are a victim of JF Mezei's rogue cancel attacks you may file abuse # > complaints with his ISP directly:  > * > Ralph Doncaster  <ralph@doncaster.on.ca> > 2720 Queensview Dr, Ste. 1144  > Ottawa, ON K2B 1A5 > CANADA > 613-829-6597 > Q > You should also file police reports with the Montreal Police Department and the D > Royal Canadian Mounted Police.  You can do that at their websites: > ! > http://www.spvm.qc.ca/index.asp  >  > http://www.rcmp.ca > E > You may also wish to contact your own local police and an attorney.  >  > JF Mezei's contact info: > ) > Jean-Francois Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>  > 86 Harwood Gate  > Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3  > (514) 695-8259  % O.k then. We will tell them about ...   D ...your senseless, ceaseless cyber-stalking and harassment of JF, asG well as your violation of his privacy by posting his address on the web  without his permission.    See you in 15 to 20...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:04:07 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquetteJ Message-ID: <Hdu0c.52363$ah.13514@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:D >> Yes, but as far as ISO 9000 is concerned it also doesn't make anyC >> difference if all your bolts have the threads winding backwards. 4 >> As long as you can repeat the process every time. > D > Which is the goal of ISO 9000: to ensure that your customers get aD > product of consistent quality. (eg: the 1 millionth widget will beC > exactly the same as the 100th and will be exactly the same as the - > demo widget you used to conclude the sale).     D In Microsoft's case all it amounts to is 'same shit, different day'.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 2004 13:26:18 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette: Message-ID: <c1vdlq$1niedu$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  ' In article <404247D7.9030206@mmaz.com>, . 	"Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes: > JF Mezei wrote:  >  >>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>   >>D >>>Yes, but as far as ISO 9000 is concerned it also doesn't make anyC >>>difference if all your bolts have the threads winding backwards. 4 >>>As long as you can repeat the process every time. >>>      >>>  >>O >>Which is the goal of ISO 9000: to ensure that your customers get a product of M >>consistent quality. (eg: the 1 millionth widget will be exactly the same as P >>the 100th and will be exactly the same as the demo widget you used to conclude >>the sale). >> >>   >>K > Yes, but if you go by the 'rule-busters' approach, no manufacturer would  C > use ISO which means in our case, many of our customers would not   > purchase from us...     D I was not arguing against standards.  My whole point is the majorityC of people I talk with think ISO 9000 is a standard to guarantee the B manufactuure of quality products.  It is not.  It is a standard toE quarantee the manufacture of consistent products.  As far as ISO 9000 C is concerned, quality is irrelevant.  ISO 9000 would be great if it G were combined with other standards that guaranteed the original process D (the one that is ISO 9000 certified) actually made quality products,E but all I ever see is people bragging about being ISO 9000 certified.   H >                      As I said, I doubt he has any real production or I > employement business and based on his web site, it doesn't appear that  , > he has much exposure to commerce either...  ? And you would be wrong, but that has never been a disqualifying  factor in c.o.v.  :-)    bill    --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:53:54 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette0 Message-ID: <40434E81.152BCDED@sture.homeip.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ) > In article <404247D7.9030206@mmaz.com>, 7 >         "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:  > > JF Mezei wrote:  > >  > >>Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> > >>F > >>>Yes, but as far as ISO 9000 is concerned it also doesn't make anyE > >>>difference if all your bolts have the threads winding backwards. 6 > >>>As long as you can repeat the process every time. > >>>  > >>>  > >>Q > >>Which is the goal of ISO 9000: to ensure that your customers get a product of O > >>consistent quality. (eg: the 1 millionth widget will be exactly the same as R > >>the 100th and will be exactly the same as the demo widget you used to conclude > >>the sale). > >> > >> > >>L > > Yes, but if you go by the 'rule-busters' approach, no manufacturer wouldD > > use ISO which means in our case, many of our customers would not > > purchase from us...  > F > I was not arguing against standards.  My whole point is the majorityE > of people I talk with think ISO 9000 is a standard to guarantee the D > manufactuure of quality products.  It is not.  It is a standard to4 > quarantee the manufacture of consistent products.   B Agree completely. Indeed if a company's business is that of makingE use-once-then-throw-away widgets they may want to keep the quality of * those widgets down to ensure repeat sales.     > As far as ISO 9000E > is concerned, quality is irrelevant.  ISO 9000 would be great if it I > were combined with other standards that guaranteed the original process F > (the one that is ISO 9000 certified) actually made quality products,G > but all I ever see is people bragging about being ISO 9000 certified.  >   H Unfortunately it was sold as if it would increase product quality, whichG is the reason many companies and govt. bodies came to insist they would # only deal with certified suppliers.    <snip>   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 2004 06:29:39 -0800 - From: phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) 6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette< Message-ID: <5ee1d1b7.0403010629.3328817@posting.google.com>  j bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<c1sur0$1ne6ga$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>...2 > In article <10427mndlauqb92@corp.supernews.com>,1 > 	rdd@rhiannon.rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) writes: + > > In article <4040CC1B.9010604@mmaz.com>, 2 > > 	"Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:J > >> You sound like a person that has not worked for someone in some time K > >> because your statements are utterly ignorant!  In a world of ISO 9000   > > J > > If that's what you'd like to believe, it would, perhaps, be unfair forK > > me to hinder your delusions that apparently originate in something akin  > > to hogwash.  > > # > >> certification and compliance,   > > G > > ISO 9000 compliance is pure bureaucratic pantywaist foolishness and I > > poppycock that gives MBA's something to waist the activities of their H > > few fully-functioning brain cells on.  If this wasn't true, we'd seeD > > vast quantities of products of higher quality than were produced > > thirty or more years ago.  > ? > Why would you think that?  Unless this is a totally different ? > ISO 9000 than the one I am familiar with it deal with process ; > and not product.  It certifies that a well documented and @ > repeatable process exists.  It does not address the quality of@ > the output.  You can make pure garbage.  All ISO 9000 requiresB > is that you can repeat the process every time.  Thus turning outA > large piles of garbage.  It would not surprise me to drive by a A > certain building in Redmond, WA and see a proudly displayed ISO  > 9000 billboard out front.  >  > bill  C Bill is exactly right.  All ISO-9000 (as well as the other ISO-9xxx D standaards that go along with it) does is to document the steps thatE are taken in a process to acheive a product and assign accountability C to those steps (something that Bill did leave out.)  The idea being F that a process can be analyzed and productivity increased.  Outside ofD the US the ISO-9000 is almost a req1uirement for any company to even@ do business.  Without it they are excluded from many competitive@ contracts for services and goodsl.  This has forced companies toF implement ISO-9000 which in turn has increased the quality of products as well as reduce costs.  = Maybe people should be less afraid of loosing jobs to foreign ? companies who have implemented ISO-9000 and can bid lower while F providing a high standard product or service and more attention to WHYB these companies can provide the higher quality product or service.  C Company policies are not put in place for the purpose of making one E lone wolf employees life easier.  They are put in place to enable the C company to provide better and more compliant products and services.    PT.   E (P.S. - For those who DO know me in person and know how I think, they @ probably understoood the humor that was meant by the "MS settingD industry standards" post earlier.  For the people who do not know meD and did not understand the humor...Go to the store, buy some corn inE the can, get a fishing pole and go fishing AWAY from comnputers for a A while so you can relax.  I could suggest some excellent lakes and ' rivers in the great state of Missouri.)    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:56:44 GMT 0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com>< Subject: Re: Enabling TCP and UDP for Compaq TCP/IP Services= Message-ID: <M6u0c.82269$Wa.46389@news-server.bigpond.net.au>    Hi ya John,   K > You must set this value in SYSCONFIGTAB.DAT as it is not a reconfigurable  > value.  ? Thanks for this clarifcation.  Looks like we need to update the L documentation here also.  I didn't see that this was not dynamic.  I'll take it offline to resolve.   Matt.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 2004 02:20:53 -0800 ' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) & Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon= Message-ID: <734da31c.0403010220.1d996881@posting.google.com>   a Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message news:<87vflpessg.fsf@prep.synonet.com>... / > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:  >  > E > Also, the billygoats are bleating that they will support *1* 64 bit 7 > windows kit. Any bets on what one will get the nod...    That is not true. = They said that they won't support two different x86-64 archs.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:18:27 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon) Message-ID: <40423B02.B98A7BFC@istop.com>    Paul Repacholi wrote: > > No, this is HP positioning themselves so they can tell intelA > "Sink the Itanic, and you will never sell another peanut here!"   K Hadn't thought of that scenario. Perhaps HP is putting a lot of pressure on K Intel to deliver the promised goods (a working and competitive IA64). Intel M has everything to gain by cancelling IA64 now, but HP has everything to lose.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:15:40 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon2 Message-ID: <hvqdnZB0ZOOnp9_d4p2dnA@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:AVGeIruG93Xj@eisner.encompasserve.org... @ > In article <_66dnan_aoCyc6PdRVn-uQ@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"  <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > > < > > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:LLzbTeKp8RoV@eisner.encompasserve.org... C > >> In article <zuudnS68k5msEKPdRVn-ig@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" $ > > <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > >  > > ...  > > " > >> > Here the 90 nm. Prescott isJ > >> > hard-pressed to *equal* the performance (and clock rate) of its 130 nm. G > >> > Northwood ancestor, and you're predicting at least a 50% SPECint  > > performance 9 > >> > boost for the 130 nm. -> 90 nm. Itanic transition.  > >> > >>A > >> No - not me.  An Intel CPU designer.  Arcadian at RealWorld:  > > / > > Ah, but not an *Itanic* CPU designer, IIRC.  > >  > . > But he was obviously referring to Monticeto.  J A member of a processor family which he has previously stated that he's inD no way involved with - and has no special knowledge of.  He's simply, speculating optimistically, just as you are.   ...   @ > >> What are you thinking?  Are you thinking Montecito comes inH > >> at the same speed as the current Madison?  Read the threads.  As weF > >> know, 6, 8 , 12 months of process improvements cranks the clocks. > > D > > Not for Prescott's 90 nm. process, Rob:  Intel still seems to be
 strugglingJ > > to hit 4 GHz by the end of 2004 - compared with 3.4 GHz in the old 130 nm.  > > process right now. > >  > F > But this hypothetical CPU is at 2.2 GHz.  Why wouldn't path cleanups> > and everything else that occurs as cores move along, push it	 > to 2.2?   J Because, as I already noted, those path cleanups *already occurred* in theL transition from McKinley to Madison.  All that remains available for similarI speed improvements in going from Madison to Montecito is relatively minor L final polishing, which won't help relative clock rates nearly as much - evenK if the process advance from 130 nm. to 90 nm. went as smoothly as that from = 180 nm. to 130 nm., which is currently clearly not happening.    ...   G > > The only jump there that was impressive at all was from McKinley to J > > Madison - and a lot of that was likely due to circuit tweaks (McKinley being L > > a completely new design, and Madison simply a shrink of it).  They won't get I > > any similar set of tweaks moving from Madison to Montecito (still the  same > > old McKinley design),  >  > ' > That's interesting.  How do you know?   / Logic, Rob - something you're not very good at.   A > How many enhancements did the original Pentium Pro core undergo ! > and associated clock increases?   J None, as best I can recollect.  Each time the performance increased (otherE than simply due to process improvements), it was because the core was  significantly changed.  "   My point is, that same tired old9 > core was around for a long time and sped up many times.   K No, Rob:  what you're describing is the *Itanic* 'evolution' (what there is H of it) from McKinley through Montecito, not the Pentium evolution, which+ underwent multiple redesigns along the way.    >  > 8 > > and unless they get much better relative clock ratesA > > out of Montecito than they got out of Prescott there'll be no  significant  > > jump at all. > = > Prescott is at 3.4 GHz.  Are you suggesting they are having > > difficulties increasing Itanium clocking?  And that Arcadian > is talking out his hat?   H Got it in one, Rob.  It is of course *possible* that they'll develop farJ better control of their 90 nm. process by the time Montecito staggers out,L but given the problems they're having right now, suggesting that they'll getL a full 50% improvement in clock rate (especially given the difficulties withJ power consumption, which would make it hard to achieve that even for *one*K core and stay within the promised power envelope) still qualifies as rather  optimistic.    > F > >> Good.  Hopefully they both maintain the same prices and of course0 > >> get much closer on performance CPU for CPU. > > J > > Exactly how do you figure that, Rob?  Right now, the POWER4+ CPU seems toH > > have about twice the TPC-C performance of the Itanic CPU.  And while bothG > > architectures are moving to 90 nm., SMT, and increased cache sizes,  POWER5I > > is also getting additional on-chip design improvements that Itanic is  not J > > (and IBM seems to have their 90 nm. process under a lot better control than > > Intel's currently is). > >  >  > Relative increases Bill.  J Exactly, Rob:  that's why I spelled them out above.  POWER5 gets *all* theE same advances that Montecito will benefit from (though the cache-size K increase won't be as dramatic), *plus* significant core redesign, *plus* an L improved on-chip memory interface, *plus* significant on-chip offload engineK support.  So a POWER5 CPU should out-perform a Montecito CPU by a *greater* 9 amount than a POWER4+ CPU currently out-performs Madison.   (   I suggest that if the CPU increases in > speed 50%,  L You do know that IBM is aiming at 3 GHz for POWERx in 90 nm., don't you Rob?I That's *more* than a 50% speed increase over even the newest POWER4+ that J was just revealed - though the *initial* POWER5s will likely debut at moreI like 2 GHz if IBM follows its traditional conservative behavior patterns.   ; > increases cache to 24 MBytes, adds SMT, doubles the core,   K You specifically referred to 'CPU to CPU' performance above, Rob:  doubling $ the core confers no advantage there.  F > the size of the tpmC numbers compared to the 1.5 GHz 6M Madison willA > be substantial.  Will it best Power5?  I doubt it.  But it will  > draw considerably closer.   > No, for all the reasons that I just explained - again - above.   <glug>   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 2004 07:38:43 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) & Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon3 Message-ID: <wxDHDClkR2Jc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <hvqdnZB0ZOOnp9_d4p2dnA@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message     > B >> How many enhancements did the original Pentium Pro core undergo" >> and associated clock increases? > L > None, as best I can recollect.  Each time the performance increased (otherG > than simply due to process improvements), it was because the core was  > significantly changed. >   C 	But still the same core.  The same core with modifications.   Withn; 	the danger of talking past each other, it wouldn't be mucheD 	of a stretch to presume the McKinley core will under-go significant< 	modifications from McKinley to Madison.  With two cores and< 	shared cache, there is a whole host of cache synch logic if 	nothing else.     >> >>9 >> > and unless they get much better relative clock rateseB >> > out of Montecito than they got out of Prescott there'll be no
 > significanth >> > jump at all.  >>> >> Prescott is at 3.4 GHz.  Are you suggesting they are having? >> difficulties increasing Itanium clocking?  And that ArcadianP >> is talking out his hat? > J > Got it in one, Rob.  It is of course *possible* that they'll develop farL > better control of their 90 nm. process by the time Montecito staggers out,N > but given the problems they're having right now, suggesting that they'll getN > a full 50% improvement in clock rate (especially given the difficulties withL > power consumption, which would make it hard to achieve that even for *one*M > core and stay within the promised power envelope) still qualifies as ratherh
 > optimistic.S >    	Okn   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 15:49:36 +0000oO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> & Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon0 Message-ID: <c1vm2h$fv9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote: >  > B > 	Sure.  It isn't a projected development plan (i.e. roadmap) but> > 	actual development.  One is much more expensive and shouts = > 	committment.  Just like we know about Sun's committment tol= > 	UltraSparc and can refer to numerous UltraSparc CPUs underi7 > 	development.  Ultra V and I'm sure there are others.l > 8 Anything more then 3 years out is just a roadmap and you5 cannot compute anything on a roadmap, a fact that you & don't seem to have ever quite grasped. > ) >>What Itanium has proved conclusively isM> >>that having the biggest development budget in microprocessor$ >>history does not guarantee sucess. >  > : > 	Right.  But given enough time and money a pig will fly. >   @ Its a good analogy because I bet you have never seen a real live flying pig.)   Nor are you ever likely to.a   Regards  Andrew Harrison-   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 2004 10:35:07 -0600M+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)o& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon3 Message-ID: <1GQMrrDUjVwK@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <c1vm2h$fv9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote: >> o >> nC >> 	Sure.  It isn't a projected development plan (i.e. roadmap) but ? >> 	actual development.  One is much more expensive and shouts g> >> 	committment.  Just like we know about Sun's committment to> >> 	UltraSparc and can refer to numerous UltraSparc CPUs under8 >> 	development.  Ultra V and I'm sure there are others. >>  : > Anything more then 3 years out is just a roadmap and you7 > cannot compute anything on a roadmap, a fact that yous( > don't seem to have ever quite grasped.    A 	Sure.  So of the 7 Itanium processors due in the next 2-3 years,a= 	which one(s) would you say are just roadmap material and not  	under actual development?     >> r* >>>What Itanium has proved conclusively is? >>>that having the biggest development budget in microprocessor % >>>history does not guarantee sucess.h >> r >> s; >> 	Right.  But given enough time and money a pig will fly.t >> f > B > Its a good analogy because I bet you have never seen a real live
 > flying pig.v >  > Nor are you ever likely to.  >   . 	Sure.  x86 is a good example of a flying pig.   				Roba   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:03:00 +0000eO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>f& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon0 Message-ID: <c1vqc4$hh8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rick Jones wrote:e+ > Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:c > D >>An excellent example.  The 1 GHz Deerfield is indeed comparable toC >>the McKinley in performance (a bit less than the 3 MB McKinley, a4B >>bit more than the 900 MHz McKinley).  In other words, not reallyE >>competitive today.  By contrast, the low-voltage 246 Opteron offershF >>commercial performance comparable to the 1.5 GHz full-boat Madison -1 >>using only about half the power (55W vs. 107W).w >  > A > It would be good for you to include the benchamrks you considereF > showing comperable commercial performance.  For some the list may be% > obvious, but for others it may not.s >   D There arn't any published Opteron HE SPECweb_ss99 benchmarks but itsA performance should be almost identical to the Opteron 146/246/846t processors.h    From those you get.  1 2000 SPECweb_ssl99 rather better than LV Itanium.s  2 There are published SPECint and SPECfp results for the HE.b  " 1354 SPECint vs 837 for LV Itanium" 1339 SPECfp vs 1382 for LV Itanium  0 The 146 HE consumes 55 watts and doesn't require memory controller etc.  - The LV Itanium consumes 62 watts and requiresd the Intel E8870 chipset.  0 8870 SNC + DDR adds another ~13 watts taking the. equivalent LV Itanium chipset to an Opteron HE) to 75 watts or more than the power budgetk( for a 3U blade without memory or a disk.   regards  Andrew Harrison'   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 2004 02:28:46 -0800 . From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) Subject: Re: Interex's Cnet  Adn= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0403010228.4ecedef2@posting.google.com>e  [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<4042B171.BE3FA8D2@istop.com>...l > William Webb wrote: A > > The organization that is the successor to DECUS is ENCOMPASS.  > N > And now that Compaq has been burried deeper than Digital, shouldn't the userL > group return to its real name and end this encompass/whatever nightmare ? P > Because Interex is the "real" user group for HP, there is absolutely no reasonW > for DECUS to pretend it is anything more that a group representing Digital customers.i > P > It was absolute stupidity (whether forced by Compaq or not) to kill the uniqueO > and well known worldwide DECUS branding, especially since it was not replacede- > by a consistent branding across the world. e    C I agree with you ! These User Groups must merge. The problem is how 0 to manage the "balance of power" between them ! = By the way the DECUS philosophy is/was over  ! Thas the samehB of a User Group of Data General and Control Data still existing !    REgardsA   FC a > G > Ifd Carly and Stallard really wanted to show they meant their virtualhN > commitment to VMS, they would tell the varous ex-DUCS user groups around theO > world to return to the DECUS branding, and she would remove the stupid "open" P > from VMS. That would show that HP has taken ownership of VMS and will start to: > fix and repair all the damage done in the past 14 years.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 2004 13:46:25 GMTd( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Interex's Cnet  Ad6: Message-ID: <c1verg$1n88ig$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  = In article <d5ce4b06.0402291840.526841a9@posting.google.com>,n1 	al5vf03p02@sneakemail.com (William Webb) writes:p > 9 > WWWebb, who still carries his DECUS card in his wallet.   - What, you mean I'm not the only one!!!!   :-)M   bill   -- 2J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   $   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:44:22 -0500e* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: Interex's Cnet  Adn) Message-ID: <4042B171.BE3FA8D2@istop.com>o   William Webb wrote:o? > The organization that is the successor to DECUS is ENCOMPASS.-  L And now that Compaq has been burried deeper than Digital, shouldn't the userJ group return to its real name and end this encompass/whatever nightmare ? N Because Interex is the "real" user group for HP, there is absolutely no reasonU for DECUS to pretend it is anything more that a group representing Digital customers.   N It was absolute stupidity (whether forced by Compaq or not) to kill the uniqueM and well known worldwide DECUS branding, especially since it was not replacedi+ by a consistent branding across the world. s    E Ifd Carly and Stallard really wanted to show they meant their virtualpL commitment to VMS, they would tell the varous ex-DUCS user groups around theM world to return to the DECUS branding, and she would remove the stupid "open"aN from VMS. That would show that HP has taken ownership of VMS and will start to8 fix and repair all the damage done in the past 14 years.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:29:06 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>DC Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! 0 Message-ID: <c1vhbj$eag$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:d > In article <vzq%b.127388$jk2.539633@attbi_s53>, glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes: >  >>Joshua Cope wrote: >> >  > I >>>   "64-bit extension technology is an extension to Intel's processors SH >>>    based on the IA-32 architecture. The Itanium processor family is G >>>    based on the EPIC architecture. These are two separate families bG >>>    of processors based on two different architectures. The Itanium  H >>>    processor family is specifically designed for the most demanding & >>>    mission critical applications." >>F >>Well, they could have said that about Alpha.   If the new processorsD >>are cheaper and faster won't many users switch over, even for high >>end servers? >> >  > ; > 	Itanium is supposed to stay ahead of x86 in performance. A > 	Intel publically states that Itanium will reach pricing parityfA > 	with Xeon.  The only way to get anyone to move to Itanium froma? > 	Xeon is to sell it same price and make it faster.  The othernB > 	way would be to kill Xeon.  But they "obviously" can't do that = > 	with AMD selling a competing product.  So Itanium adoptionrE > 	certainly gaines moementum when they hit Xeon pricing (low voltageC, > 	models certainly help in several spaces). >   ; How can it stay ahead if it hasn't started being ahead yet.J  B You statement pre-supposes that Itanium currently has a lead which? will be maintained. The problem is that it doesn't have a lead.i   Regards  Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:26:55 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>KC Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! 0 Message-ID: <c1vh7g$eag$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rick Jones wrote:cR > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >>Rick Jones wrote:a >>C >>>What about the "MaxCPU" stuff - if I've read the stuff I've been C >>>able to find thusfar correctly, those go into IO slots.  Doesn'tsF >>>that mean that if one wants Maximum CPU count on the 15K one has to >>>give-up I/O?e >  >  > = >>That allows you to have more than 72 CPU's in a F15K if you-@ >>want to lose I/O slots. You seem to have missed the difference@ >>between this an 8400 which was that you had CPU boards, memory< >>boards and I/O boards. If you wanted the maximum number of; >>CPU's you could not have the maximum amount of memory etco >>or I/O >  > H > And in the 15K if you want the maximum number of CPUs, you cannot haveF > the maximum ammount of I/O, and you cannot have the maximum quantityF > of memory without the maximum (near? I didn't look far enough to see2 > if the MaxCPU boards had memory) number of CPUs. >   @ What exactly don't you understand ? the MAXCPU configs on F15K's@ or the differences between this and the configuration of a 8400.  B Discussions about trading the 17 I/O slots (you need 1) for MAXCPUF cards in F15K's are irrelevent in a discussion about the configuration$ restrictions of an AlphaServer 8400.     > 1 >>In the F25K the maxcpu option no longer exists.7 >  > G > You need to get in touch with the website maintainers and get them toTD > update the pages.  Their cut and paste job from prevoius pages has. > left MaxCPU references in place for the 25K. >   B You could be right but since the maximum number of CPU's supportedD in the F25K is listed as 72 vs 106 for the F15K it should be obvious( that the MAXCPU option has been dropped.   > B >>>>Of course but then as you would also know Sun has demonstratedC >>>>12.5 GB/s on a table scan from an Oracle DBMS sustained through 8 >>>>the older I/O subsystem for the F15K what can you do >>>i >>>hC >>>The E15K specs sheet on www.sun.com claims the IO is "up to 21.6  >>>GB/s sustained" >  >  > @ >>As it is and as you will also notice this is not the number of; >>PCI slots multipled by indevidual bandwidth of the slots.7 >  > C > No, it was some marketroid taking 80% of that figure, and _still_gG > getting it wrong because they took the PCI slot count and not the PCI ; > bus count, and the sum of the PCI bus count is 13.5 GB/s.k >   @ Unlike HP who just count the maximum bandwidth of the CELL board, I/O bridge x 16 ! sounds just as scientific.  D Or claiming a maximum backplane bandwidth on the Integrity SuperDomeD and SuperDome of 64 GB/s despite only managing less than 1/2 of that on a non MPI Streams result.  H > Perhaps I make a math mistake somewhere, but can you tell me how it isF > possible to have up to 21.5 GB/s of sustained I/O rate when the peakF > marketing bandwidth of the I/O busses on the system aren't much more > than 1/2 that? >   $ Because your maths isn't that good !   > F >>So what sort of I/O rate can you sustain through an Oracle DBMS on a
 >>SuperDome ?  >  > A > No idea.  I suppose that if someone were to poke around variousyB > benchmark disclsoures some guesstimates of I/O rates for _those_F > workloads could be made.  To my knowledge, HP haven't done "just" anH > "Oracle table scan" and published numbers.  BTW, I would be curious toB > know more of the details of that table scan, if you would please5 > provide a URL with the details that would be great.- >   ? Perhaps you should instead of just publishing a number based one= the CELL board I/O bridge maximum theoretical bandwidth x 16.t > D >>You seem to have spent an inordinate ammount of time not answering. >>the question, the fruits of which I have cut >  > D > Which question was that? Superdome I/O rate wasn't queried in yourE > retort to my asserion that there were similar (I don't think I said 3 > identical) tradeoffs in high-end SunFire systems.5 > #A   Read the thread again. Y > F >>Again this is incorrect. The E25K and E20K do not have any tradeoffs >  > G > The "if you want the RAM you have to have the CPUs" tradeoff seems to  > remain from the 15K. >   > Sorry but again this is incorrect the tradeoff only existed in your imagination.i  < A F4900-F25K system board supports 4 CPU's and 32 GB of RAM.; A F4800-F15K system board supports 4 CPU's and 32 GB of RAMe  < They fit into the 18, slot 0 card holders in a F15K or F25K." Giving you 72 CPU's and 576 GB RAM  9 Then both the F15K and F25K have a further 18 Slot 1 carda holders.  ; In the F15K these can be used for I/O or 2 CPU MAXCPU cardsu+ In the F25K these can be used for I/O only.    Regardsi Andrew Harrisonb   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 2004 09:04:23 -0600M; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-3 Subject: Re: Mozilla: contact for VMS-specific bugs 3 Message-ID: <xfcU4sJpNRSf@eisner.encompasserve.org>R  w In article <c1pves$too$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: H > If I suspect there is a bug in Mozilla, who is the contact person?  I F > know about Bugzilla, but is it worth going through there for things 8 > which might be specific to the VMS version of Mozilla? > B    That's the path.  I went there for a VMS specific issue and VMSE    knowledgable folks looked into it, including a fellow who works ong    the port.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 2004 06:03:39 -0800l0 From: keith.cayemberg@conti.de (Keith Cayemberg)* Subject: Re: MUMPS/DSM/M for OpenVMS Alpha= Message-ID: <3a65a5c8.0403010603.112014d4@posting.google.com>-  x Wesley Dunnahoo <wdunnahoo@mndspng.cm> wrote in message news:<LZz0c.27699$W74.27671@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>...F > I am setting up OpenVMS on my PWS 600au under the hobbyist license. I > I've been approached about some programming opportunities for OpenVMS. rJ > They require MUMPS experience that I don't have (yet).  I'm looking for G > a version of MUMPS, DSM (Digital Standard Mumps) or M (whatever it's  I > called now) that I can load on hobbyist system in order to learn MUMPS sJ > programming/database.  I've found several good looking web sites on the D > language and on learning it.  I found some versions available for I > various UNIX/Linux platforms but have no idea about where to get a VMS cJ > version.  I found mention of InterSystems buying DSM from Digital in or 0 > around 1990 but their site doesn't mention it. > L > Does anyone know if a VMS Alpha version exists and how much it would cost? >  > Thanks in advance, >  > Wesley   Did you find this site?   9 http://mtechnology.intersys.com/mproducts/dsm7/index.htmld   Cheers!e   Keith Cayembergi An American in Lower Saxonyn   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 2004 07:00:31 -0800r( From: pimpelmees@pandora.be (Pimpelmees)* Subject: Re: MUMPS/DSM/M for OpenVMS Alpha= Message-ID: <576e9651.0403010700.10a993bd@posting.google.com>.  7 Our version is coming from http://www.intersystems.com.s No idea of the pricing.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:36:43 GMTq, From: Wesley Dunnahoo <wdunnahoo@mndspng.cm>& Subject: MUMPS/DSM/M for OpenVMS AlphaD Message-ID: <LZz0c.27699$W74.27671@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>  D I am setting up OpenVMS on my PWS 600au under the hobbyist license. G I've been approached about some programming opportunities for OpenVMS. lH They require MUMPS experience that I don't have (yet).  I'm looking for E a version of MUMPS, DSM (Digital Standard Mumps) or M (whatever it's  G called now) that I can load on hobbyist system in order to learn MUMPS oH programming/database.  I've found several good looking web sites on the B language and on learning it.  I found some versions available for G various UNIX/Linux platforms but have no idea about where to get a VMS pH version.  I found mention of InterSystems buying DSM from Digital in or . around 1990 but their site doesn't mention it.  J Does anyone know if a VMS Alpha version exists and how much it would cost?   Thanks in advance,   Wesley   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:53:36 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> , Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....0 Message-ID: <c1viph$eag$4@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:o] > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<403E94F9.E835B1A2@istop.com>...c >  >>Bob Ceculski wrote:  >>@ >>>they forgot to mention that with slowaris you get to join the >>>patch of the week club, >>P >>No offense, but when you look at recent VMS patch history, VMS isn't exactly a@ >>role model anymore, especially with respect to TCPIP Services. >  > 9 > that is why you should be using TCPware or multinet ...n  5 Which as you know perfectly well require patching for ' security just like HP's TCPIP Services.    Regardsi Andrew Harrisony   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 2004 12:14:08 -0600h; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s, Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....3 Message-ID: <0C4Kd1nhlKG+@eisner.encompasserve.org>o   In article <c1viph$eag$4@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > 7 > Which as you know perfectly well require patching foru) > security just like HP's TCPIP Services.a  @    Yes.  And having applied them all we are also quite aware how@    few of them there have been compared to, say, Sun's products.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 18:22:00 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>d, Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....0 Message-ID: <c1vv08$it2$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <c1viph$eag$4@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > 7 >>Which as you know perfectly well require patching fore) >>security just like HP's TCPIP Services.. >  > B >    Yes.  And having applied them all we are also quite aware howB >    few of them there have been compared to, say, Sun's products. >  Are you now.  8 Remind me did you manage to support your security claims with hard data ?????????  " What is it that trolls do ????????   Regards  Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 04 07:57:32 PSTt From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.comi0 Subject: Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought( Message-ID: <g5CqYWbbOabn@cpva.saic.com>  = In article <93b50805.0402261758.457bd05a@posting.google.com>,,3  chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk (Chris Townley) writes:aO > mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com wrote in message news:<AFDpBicHotQ9@cpva.saic.com>...n@ >> In article <93b50805.0402251036.5c53d5cb@posting.google.com>,6 >>  chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk (Chris Townley) writes:G >> > I have an issue with SOR routines in a DEC Basic program, run as ai> >> > detached process using SYS$CREPRC. This is BASIC V1.3-000H >> > compiled/linked under OpenVMS V6.2 (Alpha). Images being run on theB >> > same version. High performance sort is not in use. I have now, >> > recreated on a standalone test machine. >> > lJ >> > There are many large data structures, so the working set is high, but3 >> > as far as I can see there are no quota issues.e >> > dJ >> > After initialising 4 record sorts, and putting 5000 or 6000 in two of@ >> > them (records sizes are 6 and 61) LIB$RELEASE_REC returns a >> > SORT-E-OPENOUT error.J >> > It is made more difficult as I cannot recreate running interactively, >> > nor in debug. >> > lG >> > I have played with the obvious quotas and WSEXTENT, as well as thec& >> > number of work files to no avail. >> > I >> > Any pointers anybody ?a >> w< >> Insure that PQL_DPGFLQUOTA is greater than PQL_DWSEXTENT. >  > D > that is interesting - the manual suggests reducing working set for > high performance sort.F > WSEXTENT is, as you suggest, picked up from PQL_MWSEXTENT, currentlyG > 66000 whereas PGFLQUO is set from $CREPRC at 50000 (PQL min is lower)cG > However I tried dropping PQL_MWSEXTENT et al to 10000 (which I saw iteG > pick up) but this had no effect, neither in the error, nor the number > > of records it had written into the two sorts when it failed. > G > Still cant see the logic behind the OPENOUT error, unless it is to dosF > with workfiles. Lost access to the test machine today, so I will tryC > setting some specific logicals for these where I can track them - + > problem is it only takes a few seconds...  > E > Unless anyone with VMS internals knowledge can point me to what thel > error means. >  > -- n > Chriso  E Another guess... do you have $creprc run LOGINOUT? If not, then SORT pD won't be able to open any work files as the logical name SYS$SCRATCHD is undefined - unless you're defining it elsewhere. Logicals such asB SYS$LOGIN and SYS$SCRATCH are defined by LOGINOUT. SORT opens workC file in SYS$SCRATCH. If this is your problem you can either define oD SYS$SCRATCH in some shared logical table or define it to on the fly 4 in either the process or job table within your code.   -- m - Jim    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:26:48 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>r4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?F Message-ID: <Y1r0c.14835$sl.4497@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message-----I+ >> From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]@" >> Sent: February 27, 2004 9:01 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com7 >> Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?  >> >>? >> I'll grant you that Gorham and Marcello, and even Sue, can't = >> be everywhere at all times, watching over the hordes of HPd= >> employees (carly(tm) included) that purport to doing their- >> jobs, but come on.....a >>= >> Nearly two years into the merger, I think that's plenty ofs? >> time for HP's licencing 'expert' to know what programmes are1 >> in-place and which aren't.o >>> >> If I was that clued-out after two years in my organization,? >> I'd hate to tell you what would happen to me - especially ife? >> I were the 'expert', but I assure you it would involve rats,b3 >> dungeons and 'iron maidens' in some combination.  >> >> >t > John,  > H > As David pointed out, like IBM, HP is a huge $80B company with a largeD > number of Customer facing groups that do their best when trying to > answer Customer questions. >0E > If a single employee makes a mistake, as David just replied, ratherlD > than getting all sorts of people upset and proclaiming "the sky isG > falling - guess what *HP* just stated !!!", the better response is tol/ > investigate further and clarify the response.l >nH > Yes, it would be nice if all Customer facing groups in an $80B companyF > could always provide 100% factually correct answers, but that is not > the reality we live in today.     F Tell me again what the person in question's job title is and their job description.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:52:31 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>c4 Subject: RE: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB2792F1@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20o! > Sent: February 29, 2004 2:27 PMT > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com>6 > Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? >=20	 [snip ..]a  	 > > John,L > >K@ > > As David pointed out, like IBM, HP is a huge $80B company=20 > with a large=20.I > > number of Customer facing groups that do their best when trying to=20  > > answer Customer questions. > >sJ > > If a single employee makes a mistake, as David just replied, rather=20I > > than getting all sorts of people upset and proclaiming "the sky is=20C= > > falling - guess what *HP* just stated !!!", the better=20I > response is to=20 1 > > investigate further and clarify the response.  > >d@ > > Yes, it would be nice if all Customer facing groups in an=20 > $80B company=20 ? > > could always provide 100% factually correct answers, but=20r > that is not=20! > > the reality we live in today.' >=20 >=20A > Tell me again what the person in question's job title is and=20c > their job description. >=20  E Imho, it does not matter what the title or job description is (or fortE that matter, how long they have been in that role), the point is thatrA someone within HP made a mistake in what they told a Customer.=20r  ? An email to the proper resource resulted in a clarification and  correction within 15 minutes.g  C If one were to look at all of the licensing programs and associatedeG issues with HP-UX, Tru64 UNIX, NSK, OpenVMS, Windows and now Linux, one G would quickly realize that it would be almost impossible for one persontG to become a "licensing expert" in all of these different OS areas. They 0 do their best, but sometimes, mistakes are made.  G I expect that the occasional mistake also gets made with regards to themG specifics of NSK, HP-UX and Tru64 licensing as well. This is not unique  to OpenVMS.=20   Regardsi  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultants HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660v Fax: 613-591-4477o Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcomt. (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 2004 07:05:34 -0800p1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) 4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0403010705.72a1aeeb@posting.google.com>    Dear Newsgroup (not just Alan),   D I realize that I am late on this since I was away last week.  I know? that VMS has not been perfect in the past and we have obviouslygE disappointed you in the past.  But in this situation a little, just a D little faith might have been a good thing.  Myself and others in theE group try our best to keep you informed.  If the hobbyist program had 9 been discontinued I like to think we would have told you.   E The person that made the mistake with Alan is very sorry and has sentnF several notes of apology.  The sky is not always falling sometimes its
 just rain.  C It might be better to send mail asking the question before alarming'9 the entire newsgroup, since it hurts VMS in the long run.n   Warm Regards as always,l   Suew     g Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote in message news:<403E7B05.20403@Flying-Disk.com>...k< > I just had an e-mail exchange with HP's licensing contact,2 > Madi Braje, as listed on the licensing web page: > 7 >    http://licensing.hp.com/swl/view.slm?page=contacts  >  >    Madi Braje - West Regionl >    Telephone: 847-781-6756 >    Email: Madi.Braje@hp.com  > = > I was trying to see if I could get the original VMS licenser? > for the XP1000 I bought transferred to me.   Since I am goinga? > to be using it to play with Apache, etc., I mentioned that ife: > the license couldn't be transferred I would just use the? > hobbyist license.   However, it now appears that the hobbyisth3 > license program has been abolished.   Madi wrote:o > C >  > Digital/Compaq/HP has never distinguished between business and D >  > hobbyist, so the license that transfers with the system, is theF >  > only type available for that particular system.  There is no such& >  > thing as a free hobbyist license. >  > R.I.P. >  > Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 07:35:31 GMTt3 From: wallacethinmintr@eircom.net (Russell Wallace)iI Subject: Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this? 0 Message-ID: <4042e6f7.202082261@news.eircom.net>  = On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 23:28:26 +0000 (UTC), bleau@umtof.umd.edu  (Lawrence Bleau) wrote:n  L >I have a very puzzling problem, folks, that shakes my group's confidence inG >VMS.  I hope I've missed a step in my logic, but I don't think I have.v  ( To add to what people have said already:  C 1) I regard it as a bug in the system design if pieces of a programcC can be changed out from under it without it being relinked; I don'tiF expect HP to agree with me, but if I were you I'd report that as a bug just for the sake of trying.  D 2) More relevant to your immediate problem: single precision is onlyE good for about 7 digits at best, and often a good deal less dependinghE what you're doing. As a first approximation, it's best to forget that*@ it exists, and always use double precision. (Single precision isE supported in hardware because it's adequate for some kinds of graphic ; applications, but generally speaking it should be avoided.)b   --   "Sore wa himitsu desu."  To reply by email, removeT the small snack from address.c! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacee   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 00:06:40 +0000 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk>5I Subject: Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this? 8 Message-ID: <civ4405gubuatguul1lpi48nqe1c9tsa82@4ax.com>  H On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 10:20:41 +0100, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote:   >John Laird wrote: >> >> --aA >> You're growing old when your knees buckle and your belt won't.  >> j >:E >Another sign being when you barf at reading a simple bit of FORTRAN?a >:-)  I I used to have some listings that made me barf when I was *much* younger.l6 They were part of the Tektronix Plot-10 package, iirc.   -- a4 Success is just a matter of luck.  Ask any failure.    Mail john rather than nospam...r   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:02:48 -0800a3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>h6 Subject: VMS v7.3-2 Release Notes / PowerStorm 300/350. Message-ID: <40423758.4080909@Flying-Disk.com>  ; In section 6.14 of the VMS v7.3-2 release notes (PowerStormn3 300/350 PCI Graphics Support for OpenVMS), it says:t  ;    For release notes on the PowerStorm 300/350 PCI graphicsw6    controller support for a Compaq Workstation running9    OpenVMS Alpha, refer to the PowerStorm 300/350 OpenVMSh;    Graphics Release Notes Version 2.0.   You can find these <    release notes on the OpenVMS Documentation CD-ROMs in the    following directories:e      [732.DOCUMENTATION.PS_TXT]   3      P300_350_REL_NOTES.PS   P300_350_REL_NOTES.TXT 3      P300_350_V2_README.PS   P300_350_V2_README.TXT>  = The directory is on the CD, but the files seem to be missing.>; I have also searched for these file names on the HP VMS web ' site and with Google, but with no hits.r  7 Does anyone know where these files are, or have a copy?e( Or am I just looking in the wrong place?   Thanks,h Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Feb 2004 22:26:54 -0000 From: Warning <warning@for.you>f3 Subject: WARNING: Your messages are being cancelled 7 Message-ID: <61U4C2AO38046.9770138889@anonymous.poster>i  L If you participate in any of the dozens of newsgroups that JF Mezei infects," your messages are being cancelled.  O He forges the names and e-mail addressess of newsgroup participants and cancels  their messages.   N This is against the Terms of Service of his and all ISPs.  It also constitutes0 identity theft and is illegal in many countries.  " Send complaints to abuse@istop.com  = You may also want to contact Montreal Police and an attorney.a   FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS About JF Mezei   1.  Who is JF Mezei?  G Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever hiteJ rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also one of the) longest running trolls in usenet history.3  " 2.  How long has he been trolling?   For well over a decade.a   3.  Where does he live?    Montreal, Quebec, Canada   Jean-Francois MezeiI 86 Harwood Gate  Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3h (514) 695-8259  / His current e-mail address is jfmezei@istop.como  * 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll?  H His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades yourO newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, day in and day out,lO every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He does not listen to pleas I to stop, he does not listen to anything anyone tells him, he does not payjO attention when the misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he justeM goes right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his earsKG closed while yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear anything you say!"    5.  What does he troll about?   P His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  He hates theK USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn it into a USA-bashinguC fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just start making lewd posts.a  $ 6.  What does he hate about the USA?  P Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have a visceralP hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a happier, better, moreJ successful version of their country and they can't stand it.  Some of JF'sN favorite troll bait is "the Bush regime", "the Bush-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz axis ofJ evil", "Americans are brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are stupid" etc.  # 7.  What about his sexual trolling?   P Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre.  Among hisI favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women's genitalia, sex toys,aM circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of course) ... the list is endless.r   8.  Circumcision???   P Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes to insertF circumcision into his trolling every now and then.  Apparently, JF wasP traumatized as a child because his parents, poor Hungarian immigrants to Canada,O left him uncircumcised when he was born, as is the custom in most of the world.kN Growing up in Canada where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time,O he was psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he arrangedaD to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades of circumcisionN proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a free willy.  His mainO argument is how much better he was able to masturbate after getting circumcisedGM without that "pesky foreskin" getting in the way of his enjoyment, and he has > made it his mission in life to spread the circumcision gospel.  H 9.  What's his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of freaky.  N Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among the subjects dearO to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, especially little boy'shJ foreskins (and how tight they are) and little girls' hymens.  He is also aK tireless activist and advocate that children should be taught to masturbateCH early on so that they don't grow up "sexually repressed like Americans".  L He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check their littleM boys' penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, proper movement,eO and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.  Utopia for JF would be aL> world full of parents manipulating their little boys' penises.  M 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the minute!  Arei you sure about all this stuff?  P Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There's over a decade full of Mezei trolling in there.s  M 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn't he change aliases all the time likeM all trolls do?  K Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known trollingl aliases.  G 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn't he work?   O Ha ha ha!  JF hasn't worked a day in his life!  He's an adult baby, a grown man O who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and trolls the newsgroupseM all night.  In his free time when he isn't trolling he likes to ride his bike G down to Dorval Airport and race the planes down the runway in his bike.l  9 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something?   M Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man's body.  Psychologically he never got pasteG the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor (i.e. "pull myhH finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been able to outgrow.  L 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about them, is
 that true?  M Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in the locker room.aN He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has seen in locker rooms overP the years, especially his unnatural obsession with foreskins.  He stalks the menO in locker rooms trying to measure how much foreskin they have, or how little issN left if they have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he spots a case of phimosis.a  O 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an insane asylum!-  M Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin foil hateN world where others are out to get him.  The key to understanding JF is that heL sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the world is out to get him, especially the) USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all about.a  O What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian rail system wasiJ "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut, spotting trains,N writing down their numbers and chasing them down at the train yard like a goodM freak.  Then he turned his attention to aviation.  Major events that made himoP fall head first deep into the abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadian Airlines andO their subsequent takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  So paranoid ismM he that when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada employeesgO went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to cover up the AirtD Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up of the crash1 investigation.  He has never recovered from this.s  6 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him!  O His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to some ancient,oJ arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has taken seriously forM decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and social dropouts who sharemJ his psychological traumas, crying for the good old vax days of yore.  It's really pathetic!  ! 17.  Where else does he hang out?n  I can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geeky computereG groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster he invaded theDN sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, and trolled it relentlesslyP with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crap he's so famous for.  But they ranN him off that group and he had to go crawling back to comp.os.vms with his tail% between his legs, licking his wounds.   P 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and doesn't troll.  O Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it's impossible not to troll, so he slipswP in troll bait every now and then, but by and large he respects comp.os.vms, and,L more importantly, he tries to hide his trolling activities from them so they* won't find out what a major netkook he is.  P 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind of psycho he is!  O Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And while you're atiI it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fido too.  And tobO alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.   4 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address?  H Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts to:   abuse@sympatico.ca abuse@bellglobal.com abuse@istop.coma  P And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups, email it toP people, you may host it at your own website, send it to newspapers and magazinesI that do Internet articles or anything to do with Montreal or Canada, etc.      *** APPENDIX ***  P List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over the years.  This isK only a partial list, he has so many it's impossible to compile a full list.t   jfmezei@istop.comt jfmezei.spamnot@istop.como jfmezei@videotron.ca jfmezei@vl.videotron.ca  nospam.jfmezei@videotron.caC "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam]   nobody <nobody@nobody.com> nobody <nobody@nobody.net> nobody <nobody@nobody.org> nobody <nobody@nobody.info>a nobody <nobody@nobody.int> nobody <nobody@nothing.nil>  nobody <nobody@null.dev> muklak <muklak@eskimo.net> Sheep skin <sheep@station.au>-# snowy squirrel <squirrel@nest.tree>0) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>r& Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>a Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> " Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>$ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>w' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com>u" Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>o' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org>s( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>w' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org>K% Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>  Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>n! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org>s# Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>o  Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>  Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org> $ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>P! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>.  Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>i% Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>s$ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>i& Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org>s% Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>w& Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org> ' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>m( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil> ' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org>s% Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org>r$ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>m( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>i" Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>a& Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>a) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>b' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>o" Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org>s* Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org>o* Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>  Q <queue@continuum.net>e Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>k  ; *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY*e       -1       -  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~sE This message was posted via one or more anonymous remailing services.rE The original sender is unknown.  Any address shown in the From header  is unverified.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 21:05:04 -0600I@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>7 Subject: Re: WARNING: Your messages are being cancelledl6 Message-ID: <4042A860.B723D1F8@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Warning wrote: > N > If you participate in any of the dozens of newsgroups that JF Mezei infects,$ > your messages are being cancelled. > Q > He forges the names and e-mail addressess of newsgroup participants and cancelsa > their messages.  > P > This is against the Terms of Service of his and all ISPs.  It also constitutes2 > identity theft and is illegal in many countries. > $ > Send complaints to abuse@istop.com > ? > You may also want to contact Montreal Police and an attorney.I   Yes - we will tell them ...a   ... about you!   -- S David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 20:04:07 GMTe& From: Don Sykes <paladin@mydomain.com> Subject: Re: Zip/update Issuef< Message-ID: <XAr0c.4379$sU2.1926@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote:   > Don Sykes wrote: > A >>I have a Self-extracting zip file I use to distribute software. 8 >>It is created on an NT4.0 and copied to my VMS server.I >>I'd like to update one file in this file dynamically, on my VMS server;1? >>but when I do and download it back to my NT and run it, I getUN >>"zip file is damaged, truncated or has been changed since it was created..."J >>Note: this file works fine in its original form. I can download to my PC >>& install - no problem.nH >>Also I can update a regular zip file on VMS & download and install, no
 >>problem.B >>I've tried several variations of: zip/update myFile.zip new.fileG >>but to no avail. Can any of you wise people help? Maybe David the Zip 	 >>Master?m >  > 9 > I've tried that myself and have seen the same behavior.z >   > If you need to do it that way:I > My recommendation would be to unpack the archive, update the file, thenh2 > reZIP the whole bunch and send the archive back. > " > If you can change the procedure:H > Send the one file (as binary?) to the source (NT?) system, THEN do the# > ZIP and save yourself some steps.e >   I Thanks, David. I knew you would have some insight into this. The problem mI is I need to add a custom license to the SEzip file and I don't have the OI info to create it until the customer requests a purchase. So all this is -E happening on my VMS web server. If I need to go back to my NT box to .@ recreate the SEzip with the new license, it will add a layer of H complexity and, of course, my NT box will have to be up and running all A the time too. So I'd really prefer to do this all on the VMS box.yE The best I can do today, is to offer customers a choice of 2 install  I methods: 1 with a proper, custom license in a true zip file, which means aI they have to unzip and then run the install procedure manually; with the rB other method they download & run the SEzip file, which includes a I pre-built (dummy) license and installs everything, but then they have to  < return to my site to download the actual license separately.  H It's really just a small replacement. Do you think it would be possible B to kluge this - i.e. create a C/Java program that reads up to the H pre-built license, then replaces the bit string with my actual license? J Or are there CRC type checks that will prevent such a change from working?   -- h   Have VMS, Will Travelu Wire paladin, San Franciscos   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:37:43 GMT & From: Don Sykes <paladin@mydomain.com> Subject: Re: Zip/update Issue:< Message-ID: <bJu0c.4423$Op5.1784@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:e   > Don Sykes wrote: >  > 
 >>The problemwJ >>is I need to add a custom license to the SEzip file and I don't have the; >>info to create it until the customer requests a purchase.n >>So all this isF >>happening on my VMS web server. If I need to go back to my NT box to* >>recreate the SEzip with the new license, >  > 4 > Can not your VMS ZIP tool create the SE-Zip file ? >  > Like : > C > 1. Unzip the "NT-created" ZIP file into an empty (VMS) directory.l0 > 2. Add the license file to the same directory.. > 3. Re-create the SE-ZIP file (still on VMS).- > 4. Ship the "licensed kit" to the customer.  > < > I *think* I've seen a separate tool to create SE ZIP files& > in the VMS-ZIP distribution I use... > 	 > Regardsd > Jan-Erik.s  H That may work, but I think it will create a SEzip that only runs on VMS = - no? I need the resulting SEzip to remain a Windoz exe file.      -- V   Have VMS, Will Travele Wire paladin, San FranciscoD   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 21:03:26 -0600h@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: Zip/update Issue-6 Message-ID: <4042A7FE.DD76D41C@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Don Sykes wrote: >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:r >  > > Don Sykes wrote: > >j > >R > >>The problem L > >>is I need to add a custom license to the SEzip file and I don't have the= > >>info to create it until the customer requests a purchase.e > >>So all this isH > >>happening on my VMS web server. If I need to go back to my NT box to, > >>recreate the SEzip with the new license, > >> > >h6 > > Can not your VMS ZIP tool create the SE-Zip file ? > >c
 > > Like : > >tE > > 1. Unzip the "NT-created" ZIP file into an empty (VMS) directory. 2 > > 2. Add the license file to the same directory.0 > > 3. Re-create the SE-ZIP file (still on VMS)./ > > 4. Ship the "licensed kit" to the customer.i > >s> > > I *think* I've seen a separate tool to create SE ZIP files( > > in the VMS-ZIP distribution I use... > >4 > > Regards0
 > > Jan-Erik.e > I > That may work, but I think it will create a SEzip that only runs on VMSe? > - no? I need the resulting SEzip to remain a Windoz exe file.g  D Hhmmm... seems to me, you need to try and (if successful) adopt this	 approach:t  "  1. Create the .ZIP archive on NT.#  2. Update the .ZIP archive on VMS.oB  3. Append the .ZIP file to a WhizeBloze self-extract stub on VMS.F  4. Use ZIP to adjust the offsets of the SE file with the self-extract stub prepended.w  H Dunno if VMS zip will do that. Dunno where to get the WhineBloze SE stub for freeware ZIP.    -- o David J. Dachtera2 dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:51:44 +0100- From: "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de>w Subject: Re: Zip/update Issuer9 Message-ID: <c1vf5i$1na0od$1@ID-56200.news.uni-berlin.de>o   David J. Dachtera wrote: ...o  > Dunno if VMS zip will do that.   It doesn't have to. My test:! - Uploaded a Win ZIP file to VMS. & - Uploaded a Win32 UNZIPSFX.EXE to VMS) - $ COPY UNZIPSFX.EXE+zipfile zipfile.EXEv! - Downloaded zipfile.EXE to WinNTu - Executed zipfile.EXE  & > Dunno where to get the WhineBloze SE > stub for freeware ZIP.  ) I just put it (from Info-ZIP v5.40) up on 1 ftp://ftp.pdv-systeme.de/unzipsfx-win32.exe (92k)-   cu,-   Martin --  @   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules!3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de-F    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:15:23 -05000 From: "Brian Tillman" <Tillman@sparkingwire.com> Subject: RE: Zip/update Issue.. Message-ID: <01297F55.C22236@sparkingwire.com>   Don Sykes wrote:  A > I have a Self-extracting zip file I use to distribute software.a8 > It is created on an NT4.0 and copied to my VMS server.= > I'd like to update one file in this file dynamically, on mya
 > VMS server;n? > but when I do and download it back to my NT and run it, I geta> > "zip file is damaged, truncated or has been changed since it > was created..."a  @ Perhaps this question is better asked at info-zip@lists.wku.edu. -- n
 Brian Tillmann   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 09:02:52 GMTtL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")< Subject: Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so...6 Message-ID: <00A2E2B1.62C32EEE@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  C In article <4042dfa0$0$28460$636a15ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandis <no@spam.com> writes:  >John Smith wrote: f > >> Film at 11. >>  .  K >I have seen this expression a couple of times since one week. What does itg > mean?a  G On American television, the 11:00 pm news show is advertised ("teased")iH earlier in the evening.  They tell you something that's supposed to makeH you want to watch the show ("A parent's worst nightmare!"  "Forest firesI make California a hell on Earth") and close by promising they'll show youMG pictures of whatever it is, reminding you of the time.  "Film at 11:00"cJ dates from when they actually used cine film for TV news; it's pretty much all video now.  & I've seen a .sig in another newsgroup:  7  "Imminent death of the net predicted!  GIFs at 11:00."r   Hope this helps!   --  Alan     -- oO ===============================================================================t0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025nO ===============================================================================a   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:25:48 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>A< Subject: Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so...F Message-ID: <01r0c.14829$sl.7032@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote:, > Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote: >>F >> In article <403f1255$0$22407$626a14ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi >> <no@spam.com> writes: [snip]: >>* >>> [1] ask Ogilvy to build an ad campaign >>B >> (Them in particular because of their long history selling RollsD >> Royce / Bentley etcetera?  Could be.  Ads in places CIOs and CEOs  >> see, pushing VMS or OpenVMS -> >> doesn't matter so much which- are the only way to fight the >> perception that theG >> OS is already dead, and give the VMS zealots some support in sellingm >> it within >> their own organizations.) >rG > Just pushing VMS in CxOs' faces isn't enough, IMO. Gotta go for them,t7 > techies, product/project managers, ... the whole bit.l >d> > In short: ubiquitous mainstream marketing to the nth degree.  B Public demo - VMS disaster-tolerant cluster in co-operation with aF stock/futures exchange (they supply trading data for a day - real-time; asynchronous) - parallel processing with real trading data.y  K Invite lots of CIO's CTO, CEO's network & development managers, news media,eG etc... A good time to do this is at the annual SIA show in NYC or at ansH exchange's annual meeting where CEO's who are governors of the exchange,K representing major banks, brokers, and other industries, are in attendance.l  J Ask for a show of hands for volunteers - pick one of them to set off the 1K lb. charge of C-4 explosive attached to the local Alphaserver. See the restvH of the cluster 500 miles away continue to process lockstep with the real exchange. Film at 11.   E Heck, if I ran an exchange, I'd make it a listing requirment that any L company listing on my exchange had AT A MINIMUM the DR capabilities that VMSA has in order to protect shareholder assets (the information aboutiK customers, financial records, ability to stay in business in the event of at7 disaster. etc..). It's just good corporate governance..o  D Story & premise (c) Copyright 2004, John Smith. All Rights Reserved.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 20:58:14 -0600p@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>< Subject: Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so...5 Message-ID: <4042A6C6.814DD6F@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>m  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote: > z > In article <4042260E.40A1311@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:- > >Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:d > >>^ > >> In article <403f1255$0$22407$626a14ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes: > >> [snip]r > >>, > >> >[1] ask Ogilvy to build an ad campaign > >>T > >> (Them in particular because of their long history selling Rolls Royce / BentleyT > >> etcetera?  Could be.  Ads in places CIOs and CEOs see, pushing VMS or OpenVMS -T > >> doesn't matter so much which- are the only way to fight the perception that theS > >> OS is already dead, and give the VMS zealots some support in selling it within  > >> their own organizations.) > >yH > >Just pushing VMS in CxOs' faces isn't enough, IMO. Gotta go for them,8 > >techies, product/project managers, ... the whole bit. > > ? > >In short: ubiquitous mainstream marketing to the nth degree.c > L > I'm all for selling VMS, and I would have purely loved to see a Super BowlK > ad or something.  If we have an unlimited advertising budget, then great, P > advertise everywhere.  If we have a limited advertising budget, then the firstO > thing we need to do is to make it possible for the techies who currently knowiN > and love VMS to sell it _within their organizations_, rather than have it beO > a career-limiting move to push VMS.  And that means targeting CIOs, CEOs, andx > - I left these out - CFOs. > H > A serious print ad campaign in airline magazines as well as _Fortune_,L > _Business Week_, _Time_, and the _Wall Street Journal_ would go a long way5 > toward raising the perception of VMS from the dead.a > L > Ads and articles in DDJ, ACM Queue, etc, might move hobbyist licenses, butK > let's start with a policy that creates VMS consciousness at the corporatei > level. > K > If we have enough money to do everything at once, then, I agree, let's doO > everything at once.v  B Well, at this point, it really isn't a question of "having" enough? money. The question, as I see it, is how much begged, borrowed,oA invested, etc. money can VMS *AFFORD* to not spend on advertsing?a  @ Seems to me (whatever initial funds) would be best spent raisingE awareness with the techies. The "brass" will get the news soon enoughe@ when the efficacy of server virus attacks suddenly drops withoutE explanation, and the added exposure and "enhanced" VMS revenues starta* pushing hp's stock price through the roof.   Analyze *THAT*, Wall Street!   -- h David J. Dachterah dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:00:10 +0100y" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>< Subject: Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so...4 Message-ID: <4042dfa0$0$28460$636a15ce@news.free.fr>   John Smith wrote:n  
 > Film at 11.w >   P I have seen this expression a couple of times since one week. What does it mean?   D.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 04:04:11 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>< Subject: Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so...6 Message-ID: <1040301020647.15727B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  ) On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, Didier Morandi wrote:t   > John Smith wrote:  >  > > Film at 11.T > >  > D > I have seen this expression a couple of times since one week. What
 does it mean?t >  > D.  A Local news broadcasts on american TV are often at 11PM.  To booste@ viewership, they'll have a short announcement of the top stories? at commercial breaks during the evening.  If there is somethingu> spectacular such as a big fire or a horrible accident, they'll@ lure the vultures^h^h^h^hviewers with the tag line "film at 11".  5 Thanks to the Lumiere brothers, we all get to see :-)b  B (Usually now, all the local TV stations have live remote satellite0 links, helicopters, etc., and film is obsolete.)   -- r John Santosr Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:41:53 GMT,0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com>/ Subject: Re: [TCPIP V5.4] Found a bug again ;-)u= Message-ID: <RUt0c.82257$Wa.19211@news-server.bigpond.net.au>g  C "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message:* news:newscache$dk8rth$02v$1@news.sil.at...   >lC >Unfortunately, TCPTRACE stops after 10 packets (unless you specifyy
 /PACKET=xxD >where xx isn't 10) so it seems TCPTRACE treats /PACKETS as default.@ >And I think, this is not good, so the software should be fixed. >g >Do you agree ?n  J In this case, there is no real sense of what is right, or wrong behaviour.L If we polled 100 people, 40 would say go left, 40 would say go right, and 203 would run into the lampost we were trying to avoid.y  @ This starts getting into the more emotional justification versusK straight-forward technical decisions.  Though, for the sake of avoiding then( lampost, some decision needs to be made.  E Since the default behaviour can readily be overridden, and it is welliE documented, I am not in favour of changing existing (even if a littlyo9 quirky) behaviour that others may have come to rely upon.i  J As an aside... as of V5.4, you can also use 'tcpdump' to obtain your traceI data.  It is a far more powerful tool, and happens to provide the defaultcK behaviour you desire.  Further, since it uses PCAP, you can readily analyse L capture files using tools on other platforms (e.g. Ethereal, NetMon, tcpdump, on any platform, etc).  I use and recommend.   Matt.-   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:52:01 +0000 (UTC)6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)/ Subject: Re: [TCPIP V5.4] Found a bug again ;-) 1 Message-ID: <newscache$5x5wth$o871$1@news.sil.at>>  p In article <RUt0c.82257$Wa.19211@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com> writes:o >"Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message news:newscache$dk8rth$02v$1@news.sil.at...uO >>Unfortunately, TCPTRACE stops after 10 packets (unless you specify /PACKET=xxmE >>where xx isn't 10) so it seems TCPTRACE treats /PACKETS as default.4A >>And I think, this is not good, so the software should be fixed.j >> >>Do you agree ? >oK >In this case, there is no real sense of what is right, or wrong behaviour.nM >If we polled 100 people, 40 would say go left, 40 would say go right, and 20s4 >would run into the lampost we were trying to avoid.  N I tend to disagree. I feel like, if I ask 'what is wrong' it will give 10 to 1O (or zero) for wrong, but if I ask 'should we change' answer might be different.G Should I ask ?  A >This starts getting into the more emotional justification versusnL >straight-forward technical decisions.  Though, for the sake of avoiding the) >lampost, some decision needs to be made.. > F >Since the default behaviour can readily be overridden, and it is wellF >documented, I am not in favour of changing existing (even if a littly: >quirky) behaviour that others may have come to rely upon.  ; I read the documentation differently and therefor I posted.w  I I worked with a lot of tracetools and I always wondered why TCPTRACE stopl$ prematurely (until I found /PACKET).  K >As an aside... as of V5.4, you can also use 'tcpdump' to obtain your tracefJ >data.  It is a far more powerful tool, and happens to provide the defaultL >behaviour you desire.  Further, since it uses PCAP, you can readily analyseM >capture files using tools on other platforms (e.g. Ethereal, NetMon, tcpdumpe- >on any platform, etc).  I use and recommend.   ' I use TCPDUMP since the day I found it.iH And, yes, TCPDUMP does it right (another point for TCPTRACE is wrong)...   TIAo   -- t Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialistl E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:01:21 +0000 (UTC)6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)/ Subject: Re: [TCPIP V5.4] Found a bug again ;-)s1 Message-ID: <newscache$pc6wth$2a71$1@news.sil.at>   j In article <newscache$5x5wth$o871$1@news.sil.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:q >In article <RUt0c.82257$Wa.19211@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com> writes: p >>"Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message news:newscache$dk8rth$02v$1@news.sil.at...P >>>Unfortunately, TCPTRACE stops after 10 packets (unless you specify /PACKET=xxF >>>where xx isn't 10) so it seems TCPTRACE treats /PACKETS as default.B >>>And I think, this is not good, so the software should be fixed. >>>o >>>Do you agree ?e >>L >>In this case, there is no real sense of what is right, or wrong behaviour.N >>If we polled 100 people, 40 would say go left, 40 would say go right, and 205 >>would run into the lampost we were trying to avoid.d >iO >I tend to disagree. I feel like, if I ask 'what is wrong' it will give 10 to 1eP >(or zero) for wrong, but if I ask 'should we change' answer might be different.   eg.h( $ TCPTRACE/NOPACK/PORT=LOCAL=23/PROT=TCPG %DCL-W-NOTNEG, qualifier or keyword not negatable - remove "NO" or omitt	  \NOPACK\u  ( $ TCPTRACE/PACK=0/PORT=LOCAL=23/PROT=TCP $e  % So there is no way to trace 'forever'sE (only for a very big number of packets which might not be big enough)o --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERl% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.121 ************************