1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 02 Mar 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 123       Contents:* An honest question from a VMS guy about JF. Re: An honest question from a VMS guy about JF RE: ANN: VMS Mosaic 3.7  Apache 2 Worth It ? - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette  EVA disk storage Re: EVA disk storage EVA5000 - error logging... Re: FTP NT->VMS  Re: FTP NT->VMS  Re: FTP NT->VMS ' Intel Article in Business Week Magazine + Re: Intel Article in Business Week Magazine + Re: Intel Article in Business Week Magazine  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon : Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! It's all about perception!! , Re: J F on Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz Java on OpenVMS question RE: Java on OpenVMS question Multinet 4.4A & 4.4 ! Re: MUMPS/DSM/M for OpenVMS Alpha   Re: Needed: Macro Vax Programmer# Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew..... # Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew..... # RE: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....  Re: OpenVMS Feelings Re: OpenVMS Feelings OpenVMS Quote of the day Re: OpenVMS Quote of the day Re: OpenVMS Quote of the day Privacy policy language (XML)  Re: PWS 433au disk problems. Re: Ralph Doncaster . Re: Secure remote 2-factor user authentication' Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought 
 Re: sysuaf TCPIP printer via ISDN- Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas - Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas - Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? ; Re: VMS Standalone Backup bootable tape image for emulator? ; Re: VMS Standalone Backup bootable tape image for emulator? @ Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this? Re: Zip/update Issue3 Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so... 3 Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so... 3 Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so... 3 Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so...   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:33:59 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> 3 Subject: An honest question from a VMS guy about JF < Message-ID: <XBJ0c.175358$Po1.91298@twister.tampabay.rr.com>  K What is all this garbage about JF Mezei and how can it go on so long?  This B makes me think I am reading a PC newsgroup instead of a VMS group.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 19:45:51 GMT " From: GreyCloud <mist@Cumulus.com>7 Subject: Re: An honest question from a VMS guy about JF 7 Message-ID: <PpM0c.653$Wc4.1010@bcandid.telisphere.com>    Tom Crabtree wrote:    > John N. wrote: > J >> What is all this garbage about JF Mezei and how can it go on so long?   >> This E >> makes me think I am reading a PC newsgroup instead of a VMS group.  >  > K > Although JF is a respected member in good standing in the VMS community,  G > he's obviously not as revered in other domains.  It appears that his  J > views and opinions in these 'other arenas' have gotten the attention of H > some twisted psychopath who's making it his/her life work of smearing G > good old JF's reputation.  It could happen to any of us.  That's why  I > today's lexicon includes such notables as "Psycho-Hose-Beast", "Wack",    > "Cyber-Stalker" to name a few.6 > The 'net is a big place with lots of places to hide. >   H It could also be that seeing OpenVMS on the Itanium2 is a certainty, M$ I is worried greatly about competing head to head with OpenVMS and XP Pro.  G   M$ couldn't compete with NT on the Alpha and I know it can't compete  H now.  So the known M$ trolls are striking out at anything that attempts H to challenge the M$ monopoly.  Of course, like you said, there are also  the sickos out there as well.    ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:39:20 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)  Subject: RE: ANN: VMS Mosaic 3.7$ Message-ID: <c1vsg7$nvp$2@online.de>  > In article <01297EEF.C22236@sparkingwire.com>, "Brian Tillman"# <Tillman@sparkingwire.com> writes:    L > I'd be grateful for a set of Alpha object files so that I can link the new7 > Mosaic on my Alpha.  I don't have a C compiler there.   O From:	SMTP%"MAILER-DAEMON@backup-mx.ais-nameserver.net"  1-MAR-2004 18:18:44.18 + To:	postmaster@backup-mx.ais-nameserver.net  CC:	/ Subj:	Returned mail: see transcript for details   # This is a MIME-encapsulated message   6 --i21HGw719973.1078161418/backup-mx.ais-nameserver.net  C The original message was received at Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:16:56 +0100 3 from p508180AD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.129.128.173]   A    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----  <Tillman@sparkingwire.com>+     (reason: 553 5.3.5 system config error)   ,    ----- Transcript of session follows -----F 553 5.3.5 127.0.0.1. config error: mail loops back to me (MX problem?)# 554 5.3.5 Local configuration error ] 451 4.0.0 hash map "Alias0": missing map file /etc/mail/aliases.db: No such file or directory   6 --i21HGw719973.1078161418/backup-mx.ais-nameserver.net% Content-Type: message/delivery-status   0 Reporting-MTA: dns; backup-mx.ais-nameserver.net5 Received-From-MTA: DNS; p508180AD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de , Arrival-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:16:56 +0100  1 Final-Recipient: RFC822; Tillman@sparkingwire.com  Action: failed
 Status: 5.3.5 4 Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 553 5.3.5 system config error1 Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:16:58 +0100    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 15:17:21 GMT . From: "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca> Subject: Apache 2 Worth It ?, Message-ID: <5uI0c.40531$A12.11501@edtnps84>  J Is it worth it at this time to upgrade to Apache version 2 for VMS 7.3-1,2L at this time or is the problem of having to have everything as Stream LF and( forced ODS 5 stopping people to upgrade.  $ Any experieces either way would help   Thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:53:50 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette0 Message-ID: <404459AE.4EB31422@sture.homeip.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Paul Sture wrote: L > > Unfortunately it was sold as if it would increase product quality, whichK > > is the reason many companies and govt. bodies came to insist they would ' > > only deal with certified suppliers.  > L > By reducing the number of widgets that you ship with defects, you increaseP > overall/average product quality. (but it doesn't increase the quality of those& > products which don't have a defect). > O > But there is also the issue that you are likely to find faults in the process M > while doing the 9000 paperwork and by fixing those faults, you may increase ! > yield (fewer defects rejected).  >   H FWIW I first came across ISO 9000's predecessor in the UK, BS 5750 (BS =G Bristish Standard in that context) when I was given a conducted tour of C a hardware maintenance company. The system they had put in place to E achieve BS 5750 was indeed good. A simple example was when they got a H circuit board in for repair, all the dip switch and jumper settings were= recorded before doing any work on it, so that the repaired or E replacement board could be sent out to the customer with the original 	 settings.    M > Of course, in most cases, the additional 9000 paperwork and burden probably Q > costs more than the savings from the slightly better quality and fewer rejects.   @ For some reason which escapes me now, they had actually set up 2H companies, so had to do ther BS 5750 certification twice. After the pain@ and expense of that, they wished they'd only set up one company.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:02:37 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette0 Message-ID: <00A2E305.2DC2D548@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Z In article <c1tn9j$rc8$1@news01.intel.com>, Ken Fairfield <My.Full.Name@intel.com> writes: >VAXman- wrote:  >  >[snip] N >> Another nuisance in the email world is the inability to locate the carriageN >> return key.  WTF?  Are people are so tired from doing the Willywarez three-M >> finger salute umpteen times a day that it's too much effort to depress the 0 >> carriage return every 70-80 characters typed? > C >     Micro$olth software actively _discourages_ uses of the <CR>,  > >sigh...  In this case, it's hard to blame the users since theB >software they run _tells_ them to avoid that key.  When I receive@ >a plain-text e-mail which has been properly formatted with <CR>E >by the author, OutHouse asks me if I want to "remove the unnecessary C >line breaks?" (or similar; I don't have the exact text in front of  >me...). > > >     It causes me no end of grief that OutHouse and MS Worse,@ >etc., prevent me from saying where a line ends or how to format@ >a paragraph.  I do my best, but the "casual user" of this stuff? >not only doesn't know there's a problem, s/he will think we're ? >crazy and doing it all wrong: BillWarez told her/him so!  As a   >result, we get PhilThayers(tm). >  >	-Ken > / >P.S.  But Brian, you knew this already, right?   B I thought so.  PeeCees have keyboards with only three useful keys:B CTRL ALT and DELETE.  To think that the CARRIAGE RETURN was useful is pure silliness.   --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.  --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 07:21:07 -0800 - From: phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) 6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette= Message-ID: <5ee1d1b7.0403020721.2bf1f9eb@posting.google.com>   I > ISO-9000 is still bureaucratic tripe attempting to make companies whose G > products suck look on paper good even though they still suck.  On the B > other hand, it's possible to produce high-quality products, withE > consistency, without ISO-9000.  Those who believe otherwise need to 9 > run Emacs and invoke the doctor program (at the least).  >   F Careful.  Emacs uses a Configuration Management model base on ISO-9000E standards to provide a consistent product to the users.  Just because < it has not been certified does not mean it is not compliant.  $ > I still see more and more productsD > designed to be less (easily) repairable, more products using steelF > which are made without the assistance of whitesmiths (the people whoH > finish the edges off so consumers don't cut their hands, etc. on them)B > and more and more products with built-in obsolescence that shout( > "cheap and cheesy although expensive". >   D Maybe it would be worth your time to research the average functionalA life-span of IT products.  The life-span is not decreasing due to < inoperability.  it is reducing due to the faster pace of new? technology becoming available.  So if you don't want "built-in" > obsolescence, stop the new technology from becoming available.  ; > ROFL... Planet Earth to Phil Thayer, Planet Earth to Phil  > Thayer... :-)   @ Oh boy... there go those voices agaibn.  I told them to leave me
 alone...:)  8 > If those companies in China have implemented ISO-9000,F > then that's the best example yet of proof as to why ISO-9000 is pureE > poppycock.  Take a pocket knife that was made in China for example; F > within a year or so, the main blade was loose and floppy, and becameD > dull, and one of the plastic side-pieces fell off; the screwdriver  A Let's stick to IT products and service.  Otherwise I will have to ? start comparing the quality of the American made Wantons to the @ quality of the Chinese made Wantons.  And we wouldn't want that.  C Open your computer and tell me how many of the boards, chips, fans, F power supplies, Hard Disks, CD-Roms, etc... are made in the US and howC many are made outside the US.  The ISO-9000 certified manufacturing A plants outside the use run more efficiently than the non-ISO-9000 C certified plants in the US. (yes, labor is cheaper,  that's another @ dicussion altogether.)  But go even further than that.  How manyE companies are out-sourcing to services companies overseas because the F services companies are ISO-9000 certified?  Why, becasue the companiesD using those services overseas want to do business overseas and to doE that business have to show that their product is ISO-9000 certified.  B Companies that do not do business overseas are simply dying a slow death.  & > I'll take my cars made in the 1970'sG > anyday over the little bits of rubbish on wheels produced today, that H > auto manufacturers should be ashamed to put their names on... I'd like3 > to see those new cars last thirty or forty years.  >   D Me too.  I like the older cars because I can work on them.  Not likeE the new cars with all the computers on them.  I try to stay away from  computers when I leave work. :)   G > Many unnecessarily restrictive corporate policies are put in place to   D What is "unnecessarily restrictive corporate policies" to one personE may be required for another.  Ask the PC tech who has to maintain the C consistence of the PS's in a corporation.  Would he rather have the A users allowed to change anything on the PC and support inumerable = configurations or have a "unnecessarily restrictive corporate D policies" policy to maintain one or two configurations to deal with?    G > boost the already oversized egos of managers who get their jollies by E > creating and enforcing policies.  Such managers have another reason H > for creating such policies: they like to attempt to reduce the chancesH > of creative and intelligent employees doing things their own way whichF > could make those managers look all the more like the numbskulls thatH > they are to others in the company who've overestimated their potential > to be useful.   F Then I have a suggestion for you.  Since it is in the best interest ofC the company to cut out these corporate polocies, compose an e-mail  B outlining the polocies that you feel are out of alignment with theE companies best interest and how they can be changed to be in the best B interest of the company.  Send that e-mail to the President of theA company and tell him that you are willing to work with him to fix = these problems.  Be sure to by-pass all the managers with the A "oversized egos" who "get their jollies by creating and enforcing E policies" so as not to get your e-mail shot down before it can get to C someone who can make a difference and come back and let us know how 
 that goes.  D If you believe that strongly about these " unnecessarily restrictive0 corporate policies", then do something about it.   > A > That sounds much better for the spirit, mind and body than most C > corporate environments... perhaps there will come a day when such E > environments go away... we can all work towards seeing that happen.   E If only we could setup the offices on the shore of some nice lake and F be able to have the fishing pole right there beside us while we work. B When we get a bite grab the pole and fish.  Oh, wait.  We can't doA that because we're stopping the progress of technology to prevent ? "built-in obsolescence." :)  One day I will have an office like  that...    PT   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:31:08 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com>  Subject: EVA disk storage = Message-ID: <gzJ0c.175357$Po1.158822@twister.tampabay.rr.com>   G I have received some conflicting information from two different vendors  regarding the EVA3000.  K One of the vendors said that there is an EVA 3000 configuration that can be C mounted in a standard cabinet, along with a couple of ES4X systems.   E The other vendor said all EVA storage arrays must be in a special EVA . cabinet, as the bus is built into the cabinet.  . Which vendor should receive my purchase order?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:33:50 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>  Subject: Re: EVA disk storage 0 Message-ID: <c222fv$ere$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote: > In article <2VR0c.3066$yJ7.924824681@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> writes: >  > K >>Does any one have/use the XP or the Generic HDS Thunder/Lightning series  G >>boxes. What is your experience with the technology, support, pricing   >>etc... >> >  >  > 	I know of a user. > : > 	But curiously, what is the business case for Lightning?A > 	According to Gartner, the 9970 is about 2.5 times as expensive 8 > 	as EVA on a per Gigabyte basis (Gartner COM-20-8555). >   9 Does the Gartner analysis measure cost per GB raw or cost 6 per GB after protection etc. The 9970 is almost always; configured using RAID 5 for protected storage because there ; is very little difference in performance between RAID 5 and 8 RAID 0+1. Other arrays don't always perform the same way: the EMC Symetrix/DMX range for example would almost always7 use RAID 0+1 instead of RAID S (sort of RAID 5) because  RAID S doesn't perform.   : How would this compare with EVA does it have a zero impact8 RAID 5 implimentation (Vraid5) or would you normally use RAID 0+1 for performance.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 06:57:29 GMT I From: "bgInc. - You'll go where we want you to go" <ereiamjh@pacbell.net> # Subject: EVA5000 - error logging... * Message-ID: <40442FE4.2040104@pacbell.net>  F Has anyone managed to get meaningful error reporting from EVA storage E arrays/'management appliances' via email? We have finally gotten this A box (billy$SAN_MANAGEMENT_APPLIANCE) to send email notifications.   H This was done by configuring it to both send and receive SNMP traps, in I addition to many other menus specifying that events should be generated,  ? sent to specific users, though specific filters etc... geaze...   I But, still, the event messages it's sending don't contain any info about    the specific error. For example:   -------- Type: Subsystem : Sub-Type: StorageWorks Enterprise Virtual Array Controller
 Source: eva01  Severity: Informational  Category: HSV StorageCell Event   TimeStamp: 2/13/2004 11:47:20 AM Event Code: 88030703  ! Event Detail: Storage Cell: eva01    Event ID: 7 3 0 15  D Description: Leveling of capacity in a Disk Group has finished. The : identity of the Disk Group is contained in the tag1 field.   --------  E How does one obtain the contents of 'the tag1 field', not present in  G this email? Seriously, are people forwarding SNMP traps to yet another  B 'management$appliance' for further decoding? Any good workarounds?  B Also, is it possible to change the username/password used by SSSU?   Thanks for any info!   -Tom O'Toole  I (ps. the performance and functionality of the array is exceptional - the  D less said about the SAN appliance, the better, (although maybe more : should be said if it would prevent future SAN appliances).   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:53:02 -07008 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> Subject: Re: FTP NT->VMS1 Message-ID: <jd11c.338$E%6.12375@news.uswest.net>   K It sounds like your FTP client and server aren't telling each other what OS 8 they're running on.  Is this the built in NT FTP client?  
 Mike Ober.    D "Julien Rossignol" <julien.rossignol@cse-cst.gc.ca> wrote in message, news:1078235823.468730@news.drenet.dnd.ca...H > I am trying to get a file from an OPEN-VMS system through a Windows NT > system with FTP.: > Everything is right until I actually get the file on NT. > J > Here are the commands I type in FTP once I am logged into the FTP server on > VMS: >  > bin  > mget *.*;  > ? > When I get the file on the Windows side, the file appears as:  > 
 > SYS$SYSROOT  >  > and it is empty. > E > This problem doesn't occur when I get one file at a time with "get"  >  > Any suggestions? >  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:57:13 -07008 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> Subject: Re: FTP NT->VMS0 Message-ID: <L131c.84$M85.21463@news.uswest.net>   Try this sequence:   pwd  bin  prompt mget *.*  G Leave off the ";*" as Windows doesn't know how to handle this properly. I Also the "prompt" will ask you to verify each file.  The "pwd" will print , the current working directory on the server.  L Please post the results of the "pwd" and also the first couple of file names
 prompted for.    Mike.   D "Julien Rossignol" <julien.rossignol@cse-cst.gc.ca> wrote in message, news:1078240835.119454@news.drenet.dnd.ca... > Yes it is. > E > "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> wrote in message - > news:jd11c.338$E%6.12375@news.uswest.net... L > > It sounds like your FTP client and server aren't telling each other what > OS< > > they're running on.  Is this the built in NT FTP client? > >  > > Mike Ober. > >  > > H > > "Julien Rossignol" <julien.rossignol@cse-cst.gc.ca> wrote in message0 > > news:1078235823.468730@news.drenet.dnd.ca...L > > > I am trying to get a file from an OPEN-VMS system through a Windows NT > > > system with FTP.> > > > Everything is right until I actually get the file on NT. > > > G > > > Here are the commands I type in FTP once I am logged into the FTP  server > > on
 > > > VMS: > > > 	 > > > bin  > > > mget *.*;  > > > C > > > When I get the file on the Windows side, the file appears as:  > > >  > > > SYS$SYSROOT  > > >  > > > and it is empty. > > > I > > > This problem doesn't occur when I get one file at a time with "get"  > > >  > > > Any suggestions? > > >  > > >  > > >  > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:15:16 -05009 From: "Julien Rossignol" <julien.rossignol@cse-cst.gc.ca>  Subject: Re: FTP NT->VMS1 Message-ID: <1078250402.78393@news.drenet.dnd.ca>    didn't help...  % here is a sample of the input/output:    ftp> ftp> ftp> pwdH 257 "SYS$SYSROOT:[000000.USERS.JJROSSI.CMSCLIENT_NEW.PLI.STUIII.LIB]" is current directory. ftp> bin 200 TYPE set to IMAGE. ftp> prompt  Interactive mode Off.  ftp> prompt  Interactive mode On. ftp> mget *.pli  200 TYPE set to IMAGE. mgetL SYS$SYSROOT:[000000.USERS.JJROSSI.CMSCLIENT_NEW.PLI.STUIII.LIB]A_RESET.PLI;1 ? y  200 PORT command successful. 150 Opening data connection for L SYS$SYSROOT:[000000.USERS.JJROSSI.CMSCLIENT_NEW.PLI.STUIII.LIB]A_RESET.PLI;1 (  209.7.10.11,2684) (4542 bytes) 226 Transfer complete.; 4260 bytes received in 0.00 seconds (4260000.00 Kbytes/sec)  mgetL SYS$SYSROOT:[000000.USERS.JJROSSI.CMSCLIENT_NEW.PLI.STUIII.LIB]BIT82INT.PLI; 1? y 200 PORT command successful. 150 Opening data connection for L SYS$SYSROOT:[000000.USERS.JJROSSI.CMSCLIENT_NEW.PLI.STUIII.LIB]BIT82INT.PLI; 1  (209.7.10.11,2685) (520 bytes) 226 Transfer complete.9 499 bytes received in 0.00 seconds (499000.00 Kbytes/sec)  mgetL SYS$SYSROOT:[000000.USERS.JJROSSI.CMSCLIENT_NEW.PLI.STUIII.LIB]BITS2CHAR.PLI ;1?     : I still get a single empty file on the NT side sys$sysroot      C "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> wrote in message * news:L131c.84$M85.21463@news.uswest.net... > Try this sequence: >  > pwd  > bin  > prompt
 > mget *.* > I > Leave off the ";*" as Windows doesn't know how to handle this properly. K > Also the "prompt" will ask you to verify each file.  The "pwd" will print . > the current working directory on the server. > H > Please post the results of the "pwd" and also the first couple of file names  > prompted for.  >  > Mike.  > F > "Julien Rossignol" <julien.rossignol@cse-cst.gc.ca> wrote in message. > news:1078240835.119454@news.drenet.dnd.ca... > > Yes it is. > > G > > "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> wrote in message / > > news:jd11c.338$E%6.12375@news.uswest.net... I > > > It sounds like your FTP client and server aren't telling each other  what > > OS> > > > they're running on.  Is this the built in NT FTP client? > > >  > > > Mike Ober. > > >  > > > J > > > "Julien Rossignol" <julien.rossignol@cse-cst.gc.ca> wrote in message2 > > > news:1078235823.468730@news.drenet.dnd.ca...K > > > > I am trying to get a file from an OPEN-VMS system through a Windows  NT > > > > system with FTP.@ > > > > Everything is right until I actually get the file on NT. > > > > I > > > > Here are the commands I type in FTP once I am logged into the FTP  > server > > > on > > > > VMS: > > > >  > > > > bin  > > > > mget *.*;  > > > > E > > > > When I get the file on the Windows side, the file appears as:  > > > >  > > > > SYS$SYSROOT  > > > >  > > > > and it is empty. > > > > K > > > > This problem doesn't occur when I get one file at a time with "get"  > > > >  > > > > Any suggestions? > > > >  > > > >  > > > >  > > >  > > >  > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:40:23 -0500" From: "Hal Kuff" <kuff@tessco.com>0 Subject: Intel Article in Business Week Magazine- Message-ID: <c222th$hpa@library1.airnews.net>   J An artcile in this week's magazine seems to say that Intel is walking away% from Itanium, at least for awhile....    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 07:21:16 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> 4 Subject: Re: Intel Article in Business Week Magazine' Message-ID: <4044985C.1010701@MMaz.com>    Hal Kuff wrote:   K >An artcile in this week's magazine seems to say that Intel is walking away & >from Itanium, at least for awhile.... >  >    > @ What a shocking surprise meaning that HP has been either blind, D ignorant, or deceptive.... Here is the article and though it really E doesn't state anything new that hasn't already been hammered on this  ' list, it does reaffirm doubts about HP:     " Goodbye To The Chip Of The Future?  = When Intel (INTC <javascript: void showTicker('INTC')> ) and  I Hewlett-Packard (HPQ <javascript: void showTicker('HPQ')> ) released the  @ Itanium server chip they had jointly developed three years ago, I detractors quickly labeled it "the Itanic." Delivered two years late and  H at a cost of $2 billion, the chip was billed as the future of computing E because it could process data 64 bits at a time, twice the amount of  H other chips. But Itanium performed poorly on its maiden voyage, chewing F through data even more slowly than Intel's own 32-bit chip. Potential C customers gave it a chilly reception, especially because so little  9 software could take advantage of its 64-bit capabilities. H On Feb. 17, Intel Corp. Chief Executive Craig R. Barrett sank Itanium's C last hopes for gaining broad success. He announced that Intel will  I reconfigure its own 32-bit chips, the Xeon for servers and the Pentium 4  C for desktops, so that by midyear they also will be able to process  F 64-bit software. With Intel throwing its weight behind other products J that can handle 64-bit applications, Itanium looks doomed to niche status.  G The Itanium experience is a timely reminder of how Intel's culture may  E make it challenging to expand into new markets. The company's forays  F into consumer electronics and communications depend on its ability to G cooperate effectively with other companies. But Itanium is a symbol of  @ the go-it-alone arrogance of the company's past. When Intel was I developing the chip, critics outside and even inside the company said it  F was unreasonable to require software companies to rewrite millions of C lines of code so their software would run at 64 bits. Indeed, that  H became a critical flaw. Although Intel is showing signs now of becoming E more humble, such miscues mean it will have to work hard to win over   potential customers.  I No question, Barrett needed an alternative to Itanium. Last April, rival  H Advanced Micro Devices Inc. (AMD <javascript: void showTicker('AMD')> ) H began selling its Opteron server chip, which can handle both 32-bit and E 64-bit applications. The flexibility helped Opteron grab 3.9% of the  I mainstream server market by December, according to researcher IDC. "It's  B not 64 bits that most people want right now. It's performance and E value," says Peter N. Glaskowsky, editor in chief of /Microprocessor   Report/.  G Even Hewlett-Packard Co. is hedging its bet on Itanium. On Feb. 24, HP  I revealed that it will begin selling servers with AMD's Opteron alongside  F Intel's products. Chief Technology Officer Shane V. Robison says HP's I relationship with Intel is "the deepest partnership in the industry" but  I adds that customers have been demanding more choices in the servers they   buy.  E How did AMD outmaneuver Intel? The plucky underdog bet that existing  I chip technology would continue to double its performance every 18 months  I -- just as Intel co-founder Gordon E. Moore had predicted in what became  F known as Moore's Law. Although Intel also believes in Moore's Law, it H felt the Itanium architecture would be superior. AMD's gamble paid off. H In the 10 years since Intel announced it would develop chips for 64-bit G applications, 32-bit chips have grown to account for 91% of the server   market.   B Now Intel is making up for its misstep. It still holds 96% of the A mainstream server market, according to IDC. And by adding 64-bit  G extensions to its Xeon line, it has the option of starting a price war  I if AMD makes more headway with corporate customers. The move helped keep  E Dell Inc. (DELL <javascript: void showTicker('DELL')> ), the world's  G second-largest server seller, from defecting to AMD by giving it a 32-  > and 64-bit product to sell against Opteron offerings from Sun E Microsystems (SUNW <javascript: void showTicker('SUNW')> ), IBM (IBM  H <javascript: void showTicker('IBM')> ), and HP. Dell President Kevin B. 7 Rollins says his company has no plans to use AMD chips.   G By developing an alternative to Itanium, Intel looks plenty capable of  H defending its server dominance. But the chip of the future doesn't have  a very bright one.    % By Cliff Edwards in San Mateo, Calif.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:40:38 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG4 Subject: Re: Intel Article in Business Week Magazine0 Message-ID: <00A2E3C2.E48537A8@SendSpamHere.ORG>  R In article <c222th$hpa@library1.airnews.net>, "Hal Kuff" <kuff@tessco.com> writes:K >An artcile in this week's magazine seems to say that Intel is walking away & >from Itanium, at least for awhile....   Just as the customer will too.   --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.  --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 2004 07:49:25 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) & Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon3 Message-ID: <jbXeEwDesZN+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <wxDHDClkR2Jc@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: a > In article <hvqdnZB0ZOOnp9_d4p2dnA@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  >>  ; >> "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message  >  >  >>  C >>> How many enhancements did the original Pentium Pro core undergo # >>> and associated clock increases?  >>  M >> None, as best I can recollect.  Each time the performance increased (other H >> than simply due to process improvements), it was because the core was >> significantly changed.  >>   > E > 	But still the same core.  The same core with modifications.   With = > 	the danger of talking past each other, it wouldn't be much F > 	of a stretch to presume the McKinley core will under-go significant, > 	modifications from McKinley to Madison.    % 	Wrong M - obviously meant Monticeto.    				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:35:29 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> & Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit XeonG Message-ID: <lDJ0c.32215$sl.10412@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > Rob Young wrote: >> >>B >> Sure.  It isn't a projected development plan (i.e. roadmap) but= >> actual development.  One is much more expensive and shoutsi= >> committment.  Just like we know about Sun's committment to = >> UltraSparc and can refer to numerous UltraSparc CPUs undere7 >> development.  Ultra V and I'm sure there are others.o >>: > Anything more then 3 years out is just a roadmap and you7 > cannot compute anything on a roadmap, a fact that youl( > don't seem to have ever quite grasped. >>+ >>> What Itanium has proved conclusively isl@ >>> that having the biggest development budget in microprocessor& >>> history does not guarantee sucess. >> >>: >> Right.  But given enough time and money a pig will fly. >> >nB > Its a good analogy because I bet you have never seen a real live
 > flying pig.4 >  > Nor are you ever likely to.n    J How about chickens at 300+kph? There are a number of  'chicken cannons' inG use worldwide designed to launch chickens at high velocity chickens fornK testing aircraft canopies and jet engines against bird strikes. I don't seee< any reason why they couldn't be adapted to launch  pigs. ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 18:03:27 +0000.O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>n& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon0 Message-ID: <c1vttg$ilt$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote: > In article <c1vm2h$fv9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  >>Rob Young wrote: >> >>>aC >>>	Sure.  It isn't a projected development plan (i.e. roadmap) butr? >>>	actual development.  One is much more expensive and shouts  > >>>	committment.  Just like we know about Sun's committment to> >>>	UltraSparc and can refer to numerous UltraSparc CPUs under8 >>>	development.  Ultra V and I'm sure there are others. >>>  >>: >>Anything more then 3 years out is just a roadmap and you7 >>cannot compute anything on a roadmap, a fact that you ( >>don't seem to have ever quite grasped. >  >  > C > 	Sure.  So of the 7 Itanium processors due in the next 2-3 years,V? > 	which one(s) would you say are just roadmap material and not  > 	under actual development? >-  E Dimona and Tukwila are too far out, anything that has a first silicon1) date of later than 2006 way to roadmappy.r     regardsc Andrew Harrisont   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:53:23 +0000 (UTC)) From: Dan Foster <dsf@globalcrossing.net>t& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon3 Message-ID: <slrnc471kt.mkp.dsf@gaia.roc2.gblx.net>s  j In article <lDJ0c.32215$sl.10412@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >> Rob Young wrote:g >>>o >>> C >>> Sure.  It isn't a projected development plan (i.e. roadmap) butb> >>> actual development.  One is much more expensive and shouts> >>> committment.  Just like we know about Sun's committment to> >>> UltraSparc and can refer to numerous UltraSparc CPUs under8 >>> development.  Ultra V and I'm sure there are others. >>>g; >> Anything more then 3 years out is just a roadmap and youo8 >> cannot compute anything on a roadmap, a fact that you) >> don't seem to have ever quite grasped.t >>>n, >>>> What Itanium has proved conclusively isA >>>> that having the biggest development budget in microprocessoro' >>>> history does not guarantee sucess.  >>>' >>>i; >>> Right.  But given enough time and money a pig will fly.  >>>b >>C >> Its a good analogy because I bet you have never seen a real live  >> flying pig. >> >> Nor are you ever likely to. >  > L > How about chickens at 300+kph? There are a number of  'chicken cannons' inI > use worldwide designed to launch chickens at high velocity chickens forIM > testing aircraft canopies and jet engines against bird strikes. I don't seeh> > any reason why they couldn't be adapted to launch  pigs. ;-)  K No need to -- pigs *have* flown before... and in first class, no less, when-E someone claimed she had a doctor's note certifying the pig as being abI service animal. (She later claimed it was for stress therapy, which whilejE interesting, doesn't ordinarily result in classification as a servicen
 animal...)  A The pig, while clean, did cause a number of 'issues' and made therD newspapers -- this happened about 3 or 4 years ago. It caused enoughH problems that the unhappy airline refused to let her fly with the pig onJ the return flight since it had caused them (and other passengers) a number of problems.  B (This was from October 17, 2000 on a 6 hour US Airways flight from Philadelphia to Seattle.)   J To top it off... upon arriving in Seattle, the woman fled with the pig, soH an enterprising Philadelphia radio station hosted a $10,000 contest withF the money going to the first person whom could positively identify theH woman. The woman called in information about herself, hoping to get thatK $10,000... and ended being on the defensive when the area media had a field H day asking her all about the pigs including some of the apparently 'tall" tales' that she had told about it.   Crazy saga but for real!   -Dan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 07:19:35 GMTa" From: Robert Klute <news@klute.us>C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!e8 Message-ID: <ubb8409fturmhqskjir25uotr2sp36ve0g@4ax.com>  E On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 18:18:24 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyd. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:   >Robert Klute wrote:H >> On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:24:06 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy1 >> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:t >> DL >>>>The large SQL Server market does exist.  HP is happily selling Integrity) >>>>servers running Windows to customers.r >>>aG >>>Hardly, most of the Integrity SuperDomes are running HP-UX and while D >>>there may be very small numbers of customers running instances ofE >>>SQL-Server on them using Windows 2003 they hardly create a blip onm* >>>anything other than a marketeers radar. >> o >> OH >> Since Sun has sold very few Opteron boxes, to date, can I assume thatJ >> the V20z addresses a market that simply does not exist for Sun and that3 >> the box is nothing more than a marketeer's ploy?  >>   >R9 >So you design your boxes just for the fun do you and not4 >to address a market.h >i! >What a remarkably idiotic point.a  # No, that was the point you implied.w   >>  ? >>>Many people armed with P&L numbers have asked why HP bothers = >>>making anything other than printers including the families > >>>of your co-founders, the same question is being asked about >>>Intel and Itanium.s >> i >> f >>  D >> Armed with P&L numbers, one has to ask why Sun bothers staying inF >> business?  It has had negative net earnings for the last 3 quartersH >> straight and for 9 out of the last 11 quarters. Just so we understandK >> the magnitude of its losses, it has reported a total of $65M earnings incF >> the positive quarters and $4.58B in losses in the negative quarters >> during the last 11 quarters.U >>   >0? >Umm, do you know the difference between a paper write down andd >an operating loss.d  F Uh, yes.  For a company the has revenue of less than $11B/yr, $4.5B isF an impressive paper write down.  Who would have thought so much to theG company's equity was invested in Goodwill?  Even so, only about half ofbE that was the impairment of goodwill and in-process R&D. Restructuring < charges may be 'one time', but it is real money being spent.  B For the last 6 months (Jul-Dec) I see Sun had an operating loss ofC $332M.  Even though there were $9M in restructing earnings. Give myt> congratulations to Scott for figuring out how to make a profitD restructing.  Also, Sun's cash on hand has decreased by $587M duringE that period to $1.43B, in spite of raising $113M from the sale of newd stock.    > >Just to put your paper number in perspective the HP EBU needs? >to turn in a profit of ~300-350 million a quarter to cover itsn; >R&D costs that have been moved to a central cost center ort9 >put another way since the total profit excluding the R&D.9 >costs for the EBU has in fact over the last 3 years beenr: >negative you are looking at an actual loss of ~3 billion. >[( >Just as well that toner is high margin.  D Those are you estimates.  But, even if they might be true, since theG bottom line is in the black HP can keep it up forever.  How long beforep3 Sun runs out of cash? 4 to 6 quarters at this rate?    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 2004 12:25:11 -0600r; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)sC Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!r3 Message-ID: <gLvrK3miaMMz@eisner.encompasserve.org>c   In article <c1nont$ra3$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote:\ >> In article <wDs%b.1184$CG.424@news.cpqcorp.net>, Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid> writes: >> f" >>>Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote: >>>,; >>>>Another example? Tru64 is the *only* real 64 bit Unix. a >>>g- >>>What makes something a "real" 64 bit Unix?h >> u >> nG >>    Mostly the marketing department.  There are, of course, technicaldC >>    facts to back it up.  Tru64 uses a flat 64 bit address space.e >> l >  > ( > And No other UNIX does ???????????????  C    IIRC the claim was made at a time when no other UNIX did.  SPARCiF    back then was still 32 bit as were most processors UNIX was runningA    on.  The other 64 bit processors at the time did not have flat-    address spaces.  H    Other technical facts could also be thrown in by the marketeers.  TheH    (then called) DEC C compiler for OSF/1 makes long 64 bit, consistent J    with the original K&R concept of long as "the longest natural integer".C    Sun, for example, kept long as 32 bit so their own code wouldn't F    break and added long long as a new type to handle 64 bit when they     started doing 64 bit SPARC.  F    None of these proves that Tru64 is the "only real 64 bit" UNIX, butF    they're just as good fodder for the marketing folks as they are for    irritating Andrew.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 18:18:24 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>wC Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!n0 Message-ID: <c1vupg$it2$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Robert Klute wrote:aG > On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:24:06 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyc0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  > @ >>But since this point is demonstrably untrue it seems pointless >>to have made it. >>C >>Solaris 2.6 is a 32bit OS that does not stop it making use of thel= >>64 CPU's in a Sun E10000, Dynix was a 32bit OS that did note7 >>stop it using the 64 CPU's in the Sequent NUMA-Q box.h >>E >>3.75 GB for a single process may be a problem for some applicationss >>it is not for most. ...a >  > + > For 32-bit Windows boxes it is a problem.b >   0 Since when was Windows that only 32bit x86 OS or even the only 32bit OS.T >  >  > K >>>>You seem to have lost the plot, the 1-8 way market is where most serverpJ >>>>revenues are and except in HPC people do not cluster commodity serversI >>>>in any large quantities to get additional throughput. They buy bigger.B >>>>SMP servers instead because they cost less when you add in the8 >>>>cluster interconnect, SAN and cluster SW/DBMS costs. >>>e >>>eH >>>That's what I have been saying all along. Thank you for agreeing with >>>me. >>>  >>G >>You seem to have missed the point, no one is interested in very largeaE >>Linux boxes or very large Windows boxes and they are also not goingsC >>to create clusters these smaller systems running either OS to tryf >>to acheive the same effect.f >  > H > That's not been my experience.  I find businesses that have settled onJ > Windows or Linux as their primary OS are interested in very large boxes. >   ( Really so care to provide some examples. > K >>>The large SQL Server market does exist.  HP is happily selling Integritya( >>>servers running Windows to customers. >>F >>Hardly, most of the Integrity SuperDomes are running HP-UX and whileC >>there may be very small numbers of customers running instances ofnD >>SQL-Server on them using Windows 2003 they hardly create a blip on) >>anything other than a marketeers radar.e >  > G > Since Sun has sold very few Opteron boxes, to date, can I assume thateI > the V20z addresses a market that simply does not exist for Sun and thatt2 > the box is nothing more than a marketeer's ploy? >  o  8 So you design your boxes just for the fun do you and not to address a market.    What a remarkably idiotic point.   >  > > >>Many people armed with P&L numbers have asked why HP bothers< >>making anything other than printers including the families= >>of your co-founders, the same question is being asked abouto >>Intel and Itanium. >  >  > C > Armed with P&L numbers, one has to ask why Sun bothers staying in E > business?  It has had negative net earnings for the last 3 quartersrG > straight and for 9 out of the last 11 quarters. Just so we understand J > the magnitude of its losses, it has reported a total of $65M earnings inE > the positive quarters and $4.58B in losses in the negative quarterss > during the last 11 quarters. >   > Umm, do you know the difference between a paper write down and an operating loss.  ; Probably not, you appear to market for HP and understandingh> simple accounting has never appeared to be a skill that anyone in HP marketing has aquired.  = If you had you would have realised that a paper write down ist
 just that.  = Just to put your paper number in perspective the HP EBU needsv> to turn in a profit of ~300-350 million a quarter to cover its: R&D costs that have been moved to a central cost center or8 put another way since the total profit excluding the R&D8 costs for the EBU has in fact over the last 3 years been9 negative you are looking at an actual loss of ~3 billion.   ' Just as well that toner is high margin.    regardst Andrew Harrisono   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 18:42:31 GMTn( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)$ Subject: It's all about perception!!: Message-ID: <c22kin$1ojme8$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  ? I would suggest those who still have doubts about how the worldo= percieves VMS should read the latest copy of The Risks Digestb (also available as comp.risks).e   bill   -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:42:16 +0000aO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 5 Subject: Re: J F on Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitzr0 Message-ID: <c1vi48$eag$3@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Ken Farmer wrote:t6 > Are you writing this drivel in another newsgroup JF? >  > Kenn >   : I doubt it J F appears to have aquired an Internet stalker( commiserate with him don't chastise him.     regards  Andrew Harrisons > -- > Kenneth Farmer <>< >  >  >  > 4 > "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message4 > news:70ee9715241715d1f4f93cd51ebfac80@dizum.com... > 0 >>nobody <nobody@nobody.org> (JF Mezei) trolled: >> >>( >>>"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote: >>> H >>>>week indicated that, if the election were to be held this week, BushH >>>>would lose to the Democratic candidate (when offered either choice -J >>>>Kerry/Bush or Edwards/Bush - both Democrats showed significant leads). >>>- >>>gI >>>Bush Jr has done a **LOT** of damage to the USA (from an internationaln >  > pointr > G >>>of view). For one thing, the USA is no longer able to make any claimo > 
 > based on > / >>>its "intelligence" without being laughed at.  >>>sL >>>Bush invaded a country illegally, against United Nations. Bush lied about >  > thet > F >>>reasons for the invasion. He coerced other (weak) countries such as >  > Poland and > C >>>Hungary to help. (can you spell "blackmail" ?) The list goes on.- >>> ; >>>It is called abuse of power. It must never happen again.  >>> J >>>Right now, the american public must not only kick Bush and his ilks out >  > with a > K >>>resounding defeat (less than 20% of the votes), but they must also startVL >>>judicial proceedings against Bush and his axis of evil (Rumsfeld, Cheney,L >>>Wolfowitz). The american public must show to the world that they will notH >>>tolerate another Bush Jr style of administration. The american public >  > must > L >>>show to their political parties that people like Bush will never egain beJ >>>elected. That will motivate the political parties to never again choose >  > such >  >>>leadership. >>>sJ >>>Unfortunatly, the american public does not realise how much damage Bush >  > hase > K >>>caused in the world and inside the USA. His successor will have a lot ofT" >>>fences to mend, wounds to heal. >>>gK >>>The american pubnlic must show the world, especially he middle east thatr >  > Bush > L >>>was just a (very bad) blip in the history of the USA and that it does notH >>>signify a trend.  Look at how long it took Germany to heal the wounds >  > aftero > J >>>Hittler's regime. The middle east will take a long time to forget about >  > Bush.a > K >>>North Korea will probably agree to re-instate the peace treaty signed by0J >>>Clinton and destroyed by Bush. (North Korea is just some bad leader who >  > has aa > J >>>beef against USA, the people don't really have hatred against USA). But >  > in the > K >>>middle east, hatred runs high in the masses, and this requires lots more0 >>>diplomacy and time to fix.m >>>dK >>>Of course, the Bush regime looks quite silly now, still accusing Iran ofi4 >>>producing WMDs. Makes the Bush regime look like a >  > pre-scripted/pre-recorded  > L >>>adminstration whose speeches continue to blast Iran despite the fact that >  > Iran > K >>>has agreed to full UN inspections and the rest of the world is satisfied, >  > that >  >>>Iran will comply. >>/ >>               ==============================n, >>                FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS >>/ >>                                        About- >>2 >>                                 J F   M E Z E I0 >>                ============================== >> >>1.  Who is JF Mezei? >>I >>Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever hit L >>rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also one of the+ >>longest running trolls in usenet history.  >>$ >>2.  How long has he been trolling? >> >>For well over a decade.- >> >>3.  Where does he live?o >> >>Montreal, Quebec, Canada >> >>Jean-Francois Mezeie >>86 Harwood Gate  >>Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3t >>(514) 695-8259 >>, >>4.  What makes him such a malicious troll? >>J >>His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades yourL >>newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, day in and day >  > out, > K >>every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He does not listen toh >  > pleasr > K >>to stop, he does not listen to anything anyone tells him, he does not pay-L >>attention when the misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he >  > just > J >>goes right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his >  > ears > I >>closed while yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear anything you say!"  >> >>5.  What does he troll about?s >>H >>His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  He >  > hates the. > A >>USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn it into a  > 
 > USA-bashingf > E >>fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just start making lewd posts.r >>& >>6.  What does he hate about the USA? >>I >>Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have aT > 
 > visceral > E >>hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a happier,d >  > better, more > L >>successful version of their country and they can't stand it.  Some of JF'sH >>favorite troll bait is "the Bush regime", "the Bush-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz > 	 > axis of- > L >>evil", "Americans are brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all >>Americans are stupid" etc. >>% >>7.  What about his sexual trolling?- >>G >>Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre.  >  > Among his  > K >>favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women's genitalia, sex toys,tF >>circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of course) ... the list is > 
 > endless. >  >>8.  Circumcision???  >>K >>Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes tor >  > insert > H >>circumcision into his trolling every now and then.  Apparently, JF wasJ >>traumatized as a child because his parents, poor Hungarian immigrants to > 	 > Canada,e > J >>left him uncircumcised when he was born, as is the custom in most of the >  > world. > J >>Growing up in Canada where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the >  > time,y > H >>he was psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he > 
 > arranged > F >>to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades of circumcisionK >>proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a free willy.  Hism >  > main > E >>argument is how much better he was able to masturbate after gettingi > 
 > circumcisedy > K >>without that "pesky foreskin" getting in the way of his enjoyment, and he  >  > has  > @ >>made it his mission in life to spread the circumcision gospel. >>J >>9.  What's his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of freaky. >>K >>Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among the subjectss >  > dear > K >>to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, especially littlen >  > boy's  > L >>foreskins (and how tight they are) and little girls' hymens.  He is also aB >>tireless activist and advocate that children should be taught to >  > masturbate > J >>early on so that they don't grow up "sexually repressed like Americans". >>G >>He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check theirp >  > little > E >>boys' penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, propere >  > movement,  > L >>and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.  Utopia for JF would >  > be a > @ >>world full of parents manipulating their little boys' penises. >>J >>10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the minute! >  > Areu >   >>you sure about all this stuff? >>F >>Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There's over a > 
 > decade full6 >  >>of Mezei trolling in there.l >>J >>11.  How can I find all that out, doesn't he change aliases all the time >  > like >  >>all trolls do? >>D >>Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known > 
 > trolling > 
 >>aliases. >>I >>12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn't he work?  >>G >>Ha ha ha!  JF hasn't worked a day in his life!  He's an adult baby, ad >  > grown man( > F >>who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and trolls the >  > newsgroups > J >>all night.  In his free time when he isn't trolling he likes to ride his >  > bike > I >>down to Dorval Airport and race the planes down the runway in his bike.8 >>; >>13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something?  >>J >>Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man's body.  Psychologically he never got >  > past > I >>the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor (i.e. "pull mywJ >>finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been able to outgrow. >>K >>14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about them,t >  > is >  >>that true? >>I >>Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in the locker1 >  > room.4 > K >>He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has seen in locker rooms- >  > over > J >>the years, especially his unnatural obsession with foreskins.  He stalks > 	 > the meni > G >>in locker rooms trying to measure how much foreskin they have, or how  >  > little isn > H >>left if they have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he > 	 > spots ae >  >>case of phimosis.i >>I >>15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an insaned > 	 > asylum!  > K >>Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin foil  >  > hatt > H >>world where others are out to get him.  The key to understanding JF is > 	 > that hee > J >>sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the world is out to get him, especially >  > the  > + >>USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all about.  >>F >>What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian rail >  > system was > L >>"killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut, spotting trains,K >>writing down their numbers and chasing them down at the train yard like a  >  > good > K >>freak.  Then he turned his attention to aviation.  Major events that made- >  > him- > E >>fall head first deep into the abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadianu >  > Airlines and > E >>their subsequent takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  Sor > 
 > paranoid is  > E >>he that when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada  >  > employeesl > I >>went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to cover up4 > 	 > the Air  > F >>Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up of the crash3 >>investigation.  He has never recovered from this.0 >>8 >>16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him! >>H >>His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to some > 
 > ancient, > L >>arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has taken seriously forI >>decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and social dropouts whot >  > sharen > L >>his psychological traumas, crying for the good old vax days of yore.  It's >>really pathetic! >># >>17.  Where else does he hang out?( >>K >>can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geeky computeriI >>groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster he invaded thejC >>sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, and trolled ite >  > relentlessly > I >>with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crap he's so famous for.  Bute > 
 > they ran > K >>him off that group and he had to go crawling back to comp.os.vms with hisp >  > tail > ' >>between his legs, licking his wounds.w >>K >>18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and doesn'tt >  > troll. > K >>Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it's impossible not to troll, so he  >  > slips  > @ >>in troll bait every now and then, but by and large he respects >  > comp.os.vms, and,h > I >>more importantly, he tries to hide his trolling activities from them so  >  > they > , >>won't find out what a major netkook he is. >>K >>19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind ofr >  > psycho >  >>he is! >>G >>Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And whileo >  > you're ate > K >>it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fido too.  And toy4 >>alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and >  > news.admin.net-abuse.usenet. > 6 >>20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address? >>J >>Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts to: >> >>abuse@sympatico.ca >>abuse@bellglobal.com >>abuse@istop.comt >>L >>And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups, email >  > it tot > H >>people, you may host it at your own website, send it to newspapers and >  > magazinesn > K >>that do Internet articles or anything to do with Montreal or Canada, etc.m >> >> >>*** APPENDIX *** >>I >>List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over the years.e > 	 > This isn > G >>only a partial list, he has so many it's impossible to compile a fullI >  > list.a >  >>jfmezei@istop.comA >>jfmezei.spamnot@istop.comp >>jfmezei@videotron.ca >>jfmezei@vl.videotron.ca  >>nospam.jfmezei@videotron.cai  >>"jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam] >> >>nobody <nobody@nobody.com> >>nobody <nobody@nobody.net> >>nobody <nobody@nobody.org> >>nobody <nobody@nobody.info>o >>nobody <nobody@nobody.int> >>nobody <nobody@nothing.nil>d >>nobody <nobody@null.dev> >>muklak <muklak@eskimo.net> >>Sheep skin <sheep@station.au> % >>snowy squirrel <squirrel@nest.tree>t+ >>Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>O( >>Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>& >>Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>' >>Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>  >>Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>' >>Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> $ >>Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>& >>Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>/ >>Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>h) >>Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com>p$ >>Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> >>Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>o) >>Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org>s* >>Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>( >>Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org>! >>Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>m) >>Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org> ' >>Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>i >>Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>v# >>Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org>v% >>Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>p" >>Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>& >>Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>( >>Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>& >>Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>, >>Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org>  >>Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org># >>Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>D! >>Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>E& >>Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org># >>Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>y# >>Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>t" >>Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>& >>Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org>  >>Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>' >>Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>'' >>Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>o& >>Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> >>Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>n( >>Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>* >>Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>' >>Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org>v' >>Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>r( >>Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>, >>Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>( >>Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>) >>Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>s) >>Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>7* >>Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>. >>Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>0 >>Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> >>Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>l) >>Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org>i' >>Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> & >>Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>$ >>Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>( >>Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org>% >>Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum> * >>Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>' >>Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>W$ >>Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>' >>Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>-( >>Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>) >>Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> + >>Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>s) >>Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>o$ >>Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>* >>Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>. >>George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>- >>Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org>l, >>Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>* >>Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>) >>Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org>e, >>Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org>! >>T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>s >>Q <queue@continuum.net>I >>Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>, >>Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>+ >>John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>  >>= >>*DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY*e >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:14:10 -0500n* From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>! Subject: Java on OpenVMS questiono7 Message-ID: <tn21c.2000$rB4.899@bignews6.bellsouth.net>-  M I've been away from OpenMVS work for about 3 years now, mostly due to market yL pressure and the needs of existing clients.  However, I might be needing to M get back into working more closely with OpenVMS in the context of Java-based a< applications and web services in the not too distant future.  * While reading over the following web page:  O http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v2/articles/internet_for_openvms.htmls  D I came upon the statement that "All of Java, including the software D development kit" is included for free as part of OpenVMS Alpha v7.3.  C Seeing the references to the JDK v1.4 and the JRE [Java 2 Run-time rJ Environment], is it accurate to say that full J2EE application support is = now built into the core O.S. [or can be downloaded for free]?s  M What piqued my interest was a desire to fiddle around with putting some sort pM of web-enabled GUI front end onto a green screen application that is written eF in a mixture of Basic, C and which does not use DECforms or any other I readily web-enabled forms library.  The BrideWorks EJB's, along with the  L TomCat J2EE AppServer seems like the right combination for what I'm looking B to do.  Is this correct, and am I missing any critical components?     TIA,   Chuck  --   Chuck Choppa  8 ChuckChopp (at) rtfmcsi (dot) com http://www.rtfmcsi.com1                                    ICQ # 22321532c@ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax4 Greer, SC  29651                  800 774 0718 pagerC                                    8007740718 (at) skytel (dot) com-  , Do not send me unsolicited commercial email.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:58:48 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>>% Subject: RE: Java on OpenVMS question>R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB2793A7@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Chuck Chopp [mailto:ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com]=20 > Sent: March 2, 2004 11:14 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt# > Subject: Java on OpenVMS question	 >=20< > I've been away from OpenMVS work for about 3 years now,=20< > mostly due to market pressure and the needs of existing=20; > clients.  However, I might be needing to get back into=20e8 > working more closely with OpenVMS in the context of=20< > Java-based applications and web services in the not too=20 > distant future.  >=20, > While reading over the following web page: >=20@ > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v2/articles/internet > _for_openvms.html1 >=20? > I came upon the statement that "All of Java, including the=20i> > software development kit" is included for free as part of=20 > OpenVMS Alpha v7.3.r >=20> > Seeing the references to the JDK v1.4 and the JRE [Java 2=20@ > Run-time Environment], is it accurate to say that full J2EE=20@ > application support is now built into the core O.S. [or can=20 > be downloaded for free]? >=20? > What piqued my interest was a desire to fiddle around with=20g@ > putting some sort of web-enabled GUI front end onto a green=20@ > screen application that is written in a mixture of Basic, C=209 > and which does not use DECforms or any other readily=20 A > web-enabled forms library.  The BrideWorks EJB's, along with=20s? > the TomCat J2EE AppServer seems like the right combination=20e; > for what I'm looking to do.  Is this correct, and am I=20s" > missing any critical components? >=20 >=20 > TIA, >=20 > Chuckh > --
 > Chuck Chopp  >=20: > ChuckChopp (at) rtfmcsi (dot) com http://www.rtfmcsi.com3 >                                    ICQ # 22321532eB > RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail4 > 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax6 > Greer, SC  29651                  800 774 0718 pagerE >                                    8007740718 (at) skytel (dot) comN >=20. > Do not send me unsolicited commercial email. >=20   Chuck,  , A few additional pointers for consideration:  ' Free Java on OpenVMS download V1.4.2-1:hD http://h18012.www1.hp.com/java/download/ovms/1.4.2/index.html (home)? http://h18012.www1.hp.com/java/documentation/index.html (doc's)n   Secure Apache on OpenVMS:.? http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws.htmla  7 UNIX Portability (UNIX to OpenVMS application porting): 0 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/portability/index.html  G There are also some third party options to web enable existing terminaln screen applications:   WRQ:= http://www.wrq.com/products/reflection/host_type/openvms.html    Ericom:b( http://ebusiness.ericom.com/iOpenVms.asp( http://ebusiness.ericom.com/indexWap.asp   Regardsu  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantl HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660n Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcomt. (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 04:09:19 -0800l- From: bhushann@hotmail.com (Bhushan Narkhede)i Subject: Multinet 4.4A & 4.4< Message-ID: <8a3b834.0403020409.73aeefef@posting.google.com>   Hi,   1D      I am posting this message essentially because we got a Multinet 4.4 written on the CD with us.> And we have a requirement that says, install 4.4A of Multinet.D Is there a difference between what is mentioned on CD as 4.4 and the" one we are looking for i.e., 4.4A.   Thanks in Advance.   Rgds,a Bhushana   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 11:03:19 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: Re: MUMPS/DSM/M for OpenVMS Alpha3 Message-ID: <v+E1QZJ53eSm@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  y In article <4043CF82.DD59DD9C@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes::  F > Also, existing documentation on the MUMPS langauge is becoming a bitH > rare. One of my vendors holds it almost a trade-secret. If you do findJ > something coherent and understandable, please post the URL (or book name* > and publisher) here. I'd like to see it.  O Many years ago it became an ANSI standard, so ANSI should sell a specification.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:44:19 -0500u$ From: Hein <hein_cov@eps.zk.dec.com>) Subject: Re: Needed: Macro Vax Programmern. Message-ID: <40418A43.F31A88DE@eps.zk.dec.com>  6 Just show all of the code already... you never know...   fwiw,e Hein.a    # tutor_removespam_@cfl.rr.com wrote:y  E > Contact Information: tutor_nospam_@cfl.rr.com (remove the _nospam_)a >t > Macro Vax Programmer > ! > To read the macro instructions,h4 > taken from an object program and run in debug mode: > (original source is missing, object was found in an OLB)+ > and create a Cobol program or pseudocode.c >i+ > There is only one program (at this time).  >>' > Lowest and fastest time wins the bid.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 19:07:22 GMTi# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e, Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....H Message-ID: <KRL0c.81315$Qg7.76820@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote:C >> In article <c1viph$eag$4@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew HarrisonfD >> SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >>9 >>> Which as you know perfectly well require patching fors+ >>> security just like HP's TCPIP Services.g >> >>C >>    Yes.  And having applied them all we are also quite aware how C >>    few of them there have been compared to, say, Sun's products.  >> > Are you now. >n: > Remind me did you manage to support your security claims > with hard data ????????? >d$ > What is it that trolls do ????????     Give it a rest Andrew.  H You're beginning to sound a lot like the Monty Python 'Argument' sketch,J which while brilliant (no offence, but you just aren't in the same league)G began to wear thin after about the 100th viewing. You're well past 100.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:50:29 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>t, Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....0 Message-ID: <c22ag5$hk4$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   John Smith wrote:h* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >>John Smith wrote:t >>+ >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:0 >>>m  L > If you are the self-appointed guardian of all thing unfairly maligned, I'dK > expect you to be defending OpenVMS first and foremost as it surely is thesJ > most maligned and scorn  heaped upon o/s out there. I think it all beganN > back around 1984-5 timeframe by some guys named Joy and McNealy. Perhaps you > should have a go at them.e >  >   E I don't think you will find that Sun has heaped much scorn on OpenVMSn& Digital, Compaq and HP yes OpenVMS no.  G You seem to be confusing the message concerning OpenVMS's owner du jour- with the message about OpenVMS.:  B And if you bother to look you will also find that contrary to your< apparent belief I have also not heaped any scorn on OpenVMS.  E Scorn on OpenVMS's owners and the hardware platforms that OpenVMS hasa been forced to run on yes.  8 Scorn on the dubious practices of the OpenVMS choir yes.  @ Scorn on the almost total lack of knowledge of the OpenVMS choir> about competitive OS's coupled with an apparent willingness to3 broadcast this lack of knowledge to all any sundry..   Scorn about OpenVMS no.e   RegardsT Andrew Harrison*   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:46:38 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>d, Subject: RE: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB2793B1@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----, > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy=203 > [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]=20s > Sent: March 2, 2004 10:50 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . > Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew..... >=20 > John Smith wrote:e, > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > >=20 > >>John Smith wrote:e > >>- > >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:g > >>>, >=20: > > If you are the self-appointed guardian of all thing=20 > unfairly maligned,=20 @ > > I'd expect you to be defending OpenVMS first and foremost=20 > as it surely=20dA > > is the most maligned and scorn  heaped upon o/s out there.=20i > I think it=20 H > > all began back around 1984-5 timeframe by some guys named Joy and=202 > > McNealy. Perhaps you should have a go at them. > >=20 > >=20 >=20B > I don't think you will find that Sun has heaped much scorn on=200 > OpenVMS Digital, Compaq and HP yes OpenVMS no. >=20> > You seem to be confusing the message concerning OpenVMS's=20/ > owner du jour with the message about OpenVMS.b >=20B > And if you bother to look you will also find that contrary to=20C > your apparent belief I have also not heaped any scorn on OpenVMS.U >=20> > Scorn on OpenVMS's owners and the hardware platforms that=20( > OpenVMS has been forced to run on yes. >=20: > Scorn on the dubious practices of the OpenVMS choir yes. >=20? > Scorn on the almost total lack of knowledge of the OpenVMS=20 : > choir about competitive OS's coupled with an apparent=20D > willingness to broadcast this lack of knowledge to all any sundry. >=20 > Scorn about OpenVMS no.o >=20	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrisont >=20   Andrew,   E Come on now .. Sales 101 says never directly downgrade an competitivetD vendors product. You lose all credibility when you directly attack a9 competitors product when you have a competitive offering.o  E If A Sales person wants to position their product over a competitors,oH the general rule of thumb is that you say "well, I agree OS x is a greatG product, but it is to bad about..." [pick one of the following: a.) thedD lack of commitment by the owner, b.) lack of R&D, c.) lack of marketF acceptance d.) lack of ISV acceptance, e.) what the Analyst of the day@ says, or f) how poorly the OS owner is doing financially etc ...  D If a HP/IBM/Dell Sales rep is in a competitive situation where a SunH Customer is looking at future options, the typical Sales rep would stateE "I agree that Solaris is a great OS, but it is to bad about ... [pick  one of the above...]  H Lets get real here. You are a competitior (albeit with a reasonable techF background) who spends 80-90% of his online time in the OpenVMS forum.D You sometimes do offer good replies in some areas, but that is mixedA with replies in other areas that are based on the above strategy.s  F Since the AIX, Windows, HP-UX and Linux forums are also likely full ofF criticisms of Sun/Solaris and, hence also need to be "corrected" (yourH reason for spending so much time in comp.os.vms), I can only assume thatD your motives are based on creating FUD in the newsgroup (albeit in a  fairly sophisticated manner).=20  B Otherwise, can you answer why you do not spend any time correctingE Solaris/Sun related info in all the other newsgroups like AIX, HP-UX,a Linux, Windows etc?    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantu HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477d Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcomp. (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20     =20>   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 07:43:42 -0800 - From: phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer)b Subject: Re: OpenVMS Feelings = Message-ID: <5ee1d1b7.0403020743.5a343d7e@posting.google.com>s  h jealousxmp@aol.com (jealous xmp) wrote in message news:<20040302011742.02207.00000730@mb-m19.aol.com>...L > >That's just what I was thinking (see my other posting). If the universityJ > >students using Linux and Micro$oft products aren't won over, all may be	 > >lost.   > I > There may be some truth to that.  Although I had seen a VMS system as a P > teenager, i didn't really use a vms shell until after college.  My college wasO > almost exclusively Macs and Solaris, although there were some Next's and x86.e > L > Due to the fact that AT&T had restrictions on Unix sales, it was sold veryM > cheaply to schools ($100?) at first.  I'd have to think this influenced its 
 > success. >   D I think VMS is VERY affordable for Universities and Colleges.  Refer to:   / http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvmsedu/index.htmld  B I have worked at several educational institutes both in the US andF internationally and this program was used extensively.  The problem is< not that it is not being used there.  The problem is that itF integrates so well into the MS Windows environment that people may not; realize that it is actually running the back-end of all the2 processing.m   PT.c   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 18:56:19 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OpenVMS Feelingsg: Message-ID: <c22lcj$1ojme8$2@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  = In article <5ee1d1b7.0403020743.5a343d7e@posting.google.com>,v0 	phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) writes: > F > I think VMS is VERY affordable for Universities and Colleges.  Refer > to:n > 1 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvmsedu/index.htmln  = This has been done to death before now, but here it is again.l> This program is totally unusable for any educational purposes.? It provides single user licenses and does not allow use in labsU> or even classrooms (because no faculty member is ever going to agree to those terms.)   > D > I have worked at several educational institutes both in the US and: > internationally and this program was used extensively.    B I can't imagine how, unless they really didn't care about how wellA they abided by the actual rules.  Indidual use is already covered A by the Hobbyist program with a much more liberal license and less C administrative overhead.  Of course, it also does not apply to labseA although faculty might find it enough less repulsive than the edub  license to actually agree to it.  G >                                                        The problem is,> > not that it is not being used there.  The problem is that itH > integrates so well into the MS Windows environment that people may not= > realize that it is actually running the back-end of all the>
 > processing.s  E I'm afraid I don't get this part.  Surely you are not saying that you H know schools who are using the edu license to cover their administrative systems?   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   d   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 02:16:27 -0800g. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)! Subject: OpenVMS Quote of the day = Message-ID: <f30679fb.0403020216.6d48bb87@posting.google.com>i  $ I listened from one of the managers:  S " - OpenVMS is obsolete, there is no future and all stuff you work is "garbage" ! "i  C Really its becoming complicated to explain here that OpenVMS has a.E future under HP. Because the Data Center is full of Sun Servers -SAP.rA I dont have conditions to market  about OpenVMS for them because  THEY DONT WANT TO LISTEN ! r  F I think its time to "quit". I am just waiting the OpenVMS for Itanium  to see what I can gain  from it.   Regardse   FC   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 07:58:36 -0800e- From: phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer)g% Subject: Re: OpenVMS Quote of the daye= Message-ID: <5ee1d1b7.0403020758.2a393313@posting.google.com>>  s fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) wrote in message news:<f30679fb.0403020216.6d48bb87@posting.google.com>... & > I listened from one of the managers: > U > " - OpenVMS is obsolete, there is no future and all stuff you work is "garbage" ! "t >   E Wow! That's pretty strong.  Maybe you whould sign this guy up for themC VMS Success Stories Monthly Mailing List so he can see exactly what> openVMS is doing successfully.  + (That mailing list does exist, doesn't it?)C   PT   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:36:58 -0600( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>% Subject: Re: OpenVMS Quote of the dayB/ Message-ID: <00A2E3D3.22675EF4.2@tachysoft.com>   / >From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)> >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms" >Subject: OpenVMS Quote of the day  >Date: 2 Mar 2004 02:16:27 -0800  % >I listened from one of the managers:t >BT >" - OpenVMS is obsolete, there is no future and all stuff you work is "garbage" ! " >c    H This is the most bizarre statement ever made, some billy/eunuchs devoteeI referring to something *else* as garbage.  On the other hand, the garbagetN recognition circuitry in billy drones is obviously defective, or they wouldn't be billy drones anyway.EO ===============================================================================>N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   aO ===============================================================================rB Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?", 	Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:27:45 GMT># From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e& Subject: Privacy policy language (XML)G Message-ID: <5wJ0c.32169$sl.28094@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   1 Has anyone here taken a serious look at this yet?   : http://www.esecurityplanet.com/prodser/article.php/2234981  ; http://www.zurich.ibm.com/security/enterprise-privacy/epal/d  * http://www.w3.org/2003/p3p-ws/pp/ibm3.html   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 06:34:51 -0800n. From: al5vf03p02@sneakemail.com (William Webb)% Subject: Re: PWS 433au disk problems.d= Message-ID: <d5ce4b06.0403020634.2288c245@posting.google.com>n  U Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message news:<4043C1D3.F8D4647A@aaa.com>...k > Hi all PWS-lovers !g > = > I have some troubles with my rather new (for me) PWS 433au.a > < > I have one SCSI card (standard ISP 1040 type) with nothing8 > connected internaly and one BA356 box with a couple of/ > 9Gb disks (mostly RZ1CB-CS and one RZ1CF-CF).  > = > Now, with a single disk (DKA0) in the BA356, I can boot VMS 
 > (7.3-1). > 6 > If I mount more disks in the box, I get all sorts of4 > troubles. >>>SHO DEV looks OK sometimes, sometimes6 > I get devices like DKA200, DKA201, DKA202, sometimes > it just re-inits itself. > 6 > If I boot VMS with only DKA0 in the box, I can later; > push in the rest of the disks, run MC SYSMAN IO AUTO, and>7 > they are all playing. After re-run of rellevent partsi/ > of the systartup, everything works just fine.u > > > But if I now run a SHUTDOWN, I can't reboot anymore (without" > pulling out all disks but DKA0). > E > I have changed the SCSI cable from 3m to 2m (BN21K-03 to BN21K-02). A > I have also replaced the "personality module", the one with oneiC > connector in the front and one on the inside with another (same).a >   2 Which connector is the SCSI cable connected to?   5 The one that faces front or the one that faces left? a (if you're facing the unit)s  2 You're supposed to be using the one on the left.    < The one on the front is for daisy-chaining two BAs together A with one BA set to high addressses and the other set to low ones.n  ; Also, check your switch settings on the personality module.u   ? I'm pretty sure I've posted them to the newsgroup in the past, e. so a Google groups search should turn them up.  H > I have checked the whole box for any bent pins in the disk connectors. > The same with all cables.l > < > As far as I understand you don not *have* to have anything? > connected on the internal conectors on the SCSI card, right ?t >   
 Correct.    E And some of them, (especially those of the 1020 variety as I recall) g> *won't* work if you use both internal and external connectors.  8 > What about the connectors under the fans on the back ?  8 > There is one connector (terminator ?) connected at the? > connector at the "bottom" (SCSI cable comes in at the "top"). C > And there is one empty connector near the top. Note, we are still.* > at the back of the BA356 under the fans. >    Depends on the part number.     F There's one you use to make it a split bus of 3 slots each and another- you use to make it a single bus with 6 slots.g  B From memory, I think that the one for split bus is slightly biggerE than the single-bus one, and it has little surface-mount resistors (I 
 think) on it.e  0 Simple testing should reveal which one you have.  D Slotwise, the split bus isn't 1-2-3 and 4-5-6. It's 1-3-5 and 2-4-6.9 (or 0-1-3 2-4-6 if you want to start counting with zero.)l   > Any thoughts ? >   E What is the SCSI address of your host adapter, and what are its othern! settings? (e.g. auto-termination)p  ( I assume your CD drive is a DQ device?    D Brings to mind a co-worker who was perplexed at his system's failureF to boot (because he forgot his internal disk at address 0 and his SCSIE CD-ROM at address 4 when attaching a fully loaded BA356 to his systeme+ ON THE SAME BUS, but that's another story.)l   > Best Regards > Jan-Erik Sderholm.e   HTH,   WWWebb   ========================! William W. Webb- EMS Operations, i OpenVMS Systems Support % USPS DSSC Annex - 4730 Hargrove Road s( Raleigh, NC 27616-2874 919.325.7500x4186A * * * -      first initial last name at email dot u s p s dot govw   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 18:45:54 GMT2. From: "Deep" <deep_mehtaHATESSPAM@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Ralph DoncasterJ Message-ID: <CxL0c.57939$ah.25952@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  ? You do realise that by posting all of this stuff and constantlylJ flaming/blaming/etc JF, you can be held liable for slander and defamation?J It's been done before. There was one person in a compaq newsgroup who feltI he was being treated unfairly, etc and he sued and WON. We all thought he E was a baby for suing, but seeing what you are doing, I would blame or * hesitate to encourage JF to do the same...   Deep  0 "Important" <important@for.you> wrote in message1 news:PIAAE70Q38047.7649189815@anonymous.poster...gK > If you are a victim of JF Mezei's rogue cancel attacks you can file abuse4# > complaints with his ISP directly:h >a* > Ralph Doncaster  <ralph@doncaster.on.ca> > 2720 Queensview Dr, Ste. 1144e > Ottawa, ON K2B 1A5 > CANADA > 613-829-6597 >eI > You should also file police reports with the Montreal Police Department  and theeD > Royal Canadian Mounted Police.  You can do that at their websites: > ! > http://www.spvm.qc.ca/index.asps >  > http://www.rcmp.ca >cE > You may also wish to contact your own local police and an attorney.  >t > JF Mezei's contact info: > ) > Jean-Francois Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com>d > 86 Harwood Gatet > Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3s > (514) 695-8259 >G >, >i > -  >n >! >e > -l >e >c >  > -  >i >n >  > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~,G > This message was posted via one or more anonymous remailing services. G > The original sender is unknown.  Any address shown in the From headert > is unverified. >h >h   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:54:39 GMTs# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t7 Subject: Re: Secure remote 2-factor user authenticationeF Message-ID: <zgH0c.30236$sl.2181@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Martin Vorlaender wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote: >> "John Smith" writes:nB >>> Does anyone have knowledge of any 2-factor user authentication2 >>> solutions that are available for use with VMS? >>>s@ >>> I'm thinking about equivalents to things like RSA SecureID /G >>> ACEserver or RSA Mobile. Last stuff they have on their web site for  >>> VMS is dated 1995. >>> H >>> Both RSA and Racal Guardata (now Thales e-Security) used to have VMSG >>> solutions.  It's real nice to be able to run one of the most secureAC >>> operating systems in the world but not have a a remote 2-factori( >>> secure way to get into it.   Sheesh. >>F >> I think Multinet includes current modules to support some of these. >t@ > TCPware has it as well. But AFAIK, it's only included "as-is",+ > because RSA doesn't support VMS any more.t >v6 >> Check on that to see if it has the pieces you want. >nC > FYI: It runs under the names "Token Authentication" (TCPware) ande > "Secure/IP" (MultiNet).o     Thanks Bob, Martin   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:29:16 -0500h$ From: Hein <hein_cov@eps.zk.dec.com>0 Subject: Re: Strange SOR$ errors - advice sought. Message-ID: <404186BC.5665EB64@eps.zk.dec.com>   Chris Townley wrote:  D > I have an issue with SOR routines in a DEC Basic program, run as a; > detached process using SYS$CREPRC. This is BASIC V1.3-000 E > compiled/linked under OpenVMS V6.2 (Alpha). Images being run on thei? > same version. High performance sort is not in use. I have nowm) > recreated on a standalone test machine.u >oG > There are many large data structures, so the working set is high, buti0 > as far as I can see there are no quota issues. >eG > After initialising 4 record sorts, and putting 5000 or 6000 in two ofm= > them (records sizes are 6 and 61) LIB$RELEASE_REC returns a  > SORT-E-OPENOUT error.a  C Detached processes are notorious for not having a 'proper' context.>G Unless started with LOGINOUT as teh first image there is no SYS$SCRATCHp and the likes.F To reproduce interactively, perhaps deassing SYS$SCRATCH and such from
 your process?hD To debug, assigg SYS$OUTPUT/SYS$INPUT for the process to a terminal?  E Now 6.2 is a few years old. Stuff has actually changes in Sort arounds workfile (protections).>  3 ---------- from the release notes or some such ----m8 6.xx.1.1 SORT32 with /WORK_FILES=2 or more - restriction  E SORT32 does not support /WORK_FILES=2 or higher if the sort workfilesoG have been redefined to point to a common directory whose owner UIC does F not match the process UIC.  Note that /WORK_FILES=2 is the default forG uses of SORT32 from SORT, MERGE, CONVERT, Compaq COBOL, and Oracle Rdb.>   The workarounds are as follows:b  5   - Redefine SYS$SCRATCH instead of SORTWORK logicalsb   - Use /WORK_FILES=1o/   - Use unique file names for SORTWORK logicalse/   - With CONVERT, use SYS$SHARE:CONVSHR_OLD.EXEt1 ------------- and from notes in the sources ----- B   V07-001 SORT32 (SYS$LIBRARY:SORTSHR.EXE) now sets the protectionC           mask for sort work files to <RWED,RWED>.  Previously, thelB           protection mask for sort work files was set to <D,RWED>.G           This could cause use of /WORK_FILES=2 (the default) or highertG           to report a protection violatation if the sort workfiles wereeB           redefined to point to a common directory whose owner UIC(           did not match the process UIC.  B We plan to include these fixes in a release of OpenVMS after V7.3.I Continue to use the recommended workarounds with versions of SORT32 priorn to V07-005.<
 -------------n4 Please note the usage of the word PLAN in the above.G I suspect it happened, but have not time/motivation to verify and it iss of little use to a 6.2 user.   hth, Hein.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:52:53 -0500i$ From: Hein <hein_cov@eps.zk.dec.com> Subject: Re: sysuaf>. Message-ID: <40418C45.C432FE6E@eps.zk.dec.com>  R You do want to maintain sysuaf, rightslist and vmsmail_profile just like any other
 indexed file. F Convert, apply global buffers, on a schedule reasonable for the usage.9 A good schedule may well be once a year, or once a month.   P However... On a non-broken file this convert action is only done for performance reasons.S It is it never ever an excuse for bad functionality (unexpected locks or whatever).v  S Now if the file has a latent, undetected, corruption (unlucky disk/power failure?),nI then the convert can change the behaviour... but you had bigger problems!a   fwiw,v Hein.        Nic Clews wrote:   > David B Sneddon wrote: > >n > > Stewart, Bill espoused:<) > > >       Thanks to all for your input.W > > >@M > > >       As it turns out HP strongly suggests that the sysuaf be convertedtR > > > about once a year in our situation.  Also there is an eco (VMS_UPDATE-V0200)O > > > that is supposed to clear up one of the problems. If you do run into this 3 > > > problem, then you should convert your sysuaf.R >n@ > > Any explanation as to why this needs to be done once a year?; > > Why is your situation different to any other situation?  >oI > The SYSUAF and RIGHTSLIST are indexed VMS files, and for large and busygG > files, they may benefit from the same file tuning procedures employedm! > for standard RMS indexed files.a >.J > After many users and identifier additions and removals, they end up withH > usual internal fragmentation. I would have thought anyone who has very1 > old and "well used" files should consider this.c >i > --A > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencese > nclews at csc dot coms   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 01:30:27 -0800a, From: pietdisp-deja@yahoo.com (Piet Timmers) Subject: TCPIP printer via ISDNd= Message-ID: <f105e02e.0403020130.5dec0c7d@posting.google.com>m   ls.>  1 We have tcpip printers connected via ISDN lines. mD These lines are only active, and we have to pay for them, when thereA is a need to connect to the printer. The problem is that when thenE printerqueue is stalled, a polling is executed, which causes the isdnRF line to be active, so we have to pay for it. This can be the situationD for several hours, for example when in the evening the printers runsF out of paper, the queue is stalled until the next morning, and we have to pay for the isdn line.g  E Is there a way to solve this problem, or to make it less expensive. Io? can imagine that a stalled queue has to poll the printer to seecD whether it is available again, but mayby there is way to change thisE polling to once an hour, this will reduce our isdn cost dramatically.c   Thanks for every help.   Piet   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 09:09:15 -0800o% From: tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams)r6 Subject: Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas< Message-ID: <ea44f5a1.0403020909.f53aa5f@posting.google.com>  Z "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message news:<403F9472.5060401@MMaz.com>... > Tom Adams wrote: >  > >We have:R > >  > >2 AlphaStations 400 4/233 > >1 AlphaServer  800 5/333>
 > >1 DS10 466> > >  > >And we are getting:
 > >1 DS10 600- > >-I > >And, our management decided to drop hardware maintenance a while back.u > >pI > >I want to propose to my management that we get UPSes for all of these.$ > >9K > >We don't need UPS for uptime, since all these system control other stuffaK > >that goes down when the power fails.  But I think UPSes would reduce ourHO > >hardware repair and replacement costs, and would reduced the likelihood thatn= > >a system would become flakey and start failing during use.t > >tE > >Is this justified?  Do you know of any info that would justify it?t > >hL > >Are there power conditioning solutions that are less expensive than UPSes > >that I should consider? > >  f > >,H > What is there to justify, you can acquire a 1500VA Cyberpower UPS for K > $200 which is most likely enough to handle all the above mentioned gear, vH > but even if you needed two because you wanted more run time, for $400 K > you will eliminate any headaches directly associated with bad power; Bad ]K > power fries power supplies which can also turn around and do a number on  H > system components (presuming you have no power conditioning at all).  F > Surge suppressing power strips are a basic necessity for spikes and G > lightening on any piece of electronics, but the the power-cycling of lI > gear by brown-outs, black-outs, power sin wave formation, will shorten w" > the life-span of your equipment. >  >  > Barryi    G I would need a way to do an orderly shutdown before the UPS shuts down.c( I see a number of approaches to do this:  G 1.  Buy APCC UPSes and get their PowerChute product, but this is pricert than other options.   F 2.  Buy some other product, like Cyberpower 1500AVR, that has a serialF interface and figure out how to interface.  I don't think they provide VMS support.  B 3.  Detect the power outage independent of the UPS.  I can do thisI because all my Alpha's are monitoring other hardware that will indirectlyM indicate a power failuire.  F But, I am not sure how to write a VMS shutdown procedure that will runH automatically.   You can't just put a job on the queue because the queueB gets shutdown by SHUTDOWN.  The only way I know to do it is to logJ onto the console and run a procedure interactively that monitors the powerC and shuts down as required.  But that is a hassle.  Perhaps I coulde use a detached process.o  F Anybody know how roll you own procedure to shutdown VMS before the UPS@ shuts down, assuming you have a way to detect the power failure?  G And, in general, is it possible to interface to a non-APCC UPS in ordera to schedule a system shutdown?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:30:47 -0700e+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>w6 Subject: Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas' Message-ID: <4044C4C7.7020904@MMaz.com>t   Tom Adams wrote:  [ >"Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message news:<403F9472.5060401@MMaz.com>...M >  h >7 >>Tom Adams wrote: >> >>     >> >>>We have:. >>>  >>>2 AlphaStations 400 4/233 >>>1 AlphaServer  800 5/333 
 >>>1 DS10 466l >>>= >>>And we are getting:
 >>>1 DS10 600i >>>hI >>>And, our management decided to drop hardware maintenance a while back.i >>>sI >>>I want to propose to my management that we get UPSes for all of these.d >>>fK >>>We don't need UPS for uptime, since all these system control other stufffK >>>that goes down when the power fails.  But I think UPSes would reduce oureO >>>hardware repair and replacement costs, and would reduced the likelihood that = >>>a system would become flakey and start failing during use.l >>>gE >>>Is this justified?  Do you know of any info that would justify it?t >>>=L >>>Are there power conditioning solutions that are less expensive than UPSes >>>that I should consider? >>>  >>>c	 >>>        >>> H >>What is there to justify, you can acquire a 1500VA Cyberpower UPS for K >>$200 which is most likely enough to handle all the above mentioned gear,  H >>but even if you needed two because you wanted more run time, for $400 K >>you will eliminate any headaches directly associated with bad power; Bad tK >>power fries power supplies which can also turn around and do a number on iH >>system components (presuming you have no power conditioning at all).  F >>Surge suppressing power strips are a basic necessity for spikes and G >>lightening on any piece of electronics, but the the power-cycling of hI >>gear by brown-outs, black-outs, power sin wave formation, will shorten h" >>the life-span of your equipment. >> >>     >>G >2.  Buy some other product, like Cyberpower 1500AVR, that has a serialrG >interface and figure out how to interface.  I don't think they providea
 >VMS support.  >: >  p >wH They do have a Linux release, which may have sources and if they do not,F you could ask and they might release it, or at least release the specsH for the serial interfaces protocol which doubt they'd have issue with ifF it sells their product...  Additionally, I believe you can find on theG web VMS sources for this same type of thing for other UPS's, that might-8 aid in the process but either way, you'll need to do theE coding/conversion, however, since VMS can't read the mind of a UPS it- cannot communicate with...   Barryi   -- l  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:23:26 GMTl# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>d6 Subject: Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for AlphasJ Message-ID: <iq31c.67086$ah.36256@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Tom Adams wrote:8 > "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message% > news:<403F9472.5060401@MMaz.com>...a >> Tom Adams wrote:D >> >>> We have: >>>n >>> 2 AlphaStations 400 4/233s >>> 1 AlphaServer  800 5/333 >>> 1 DS10 466 >>>  >>> And we are getting:  >>> 1 DS10 600 >>> D >>> And, our management decided to drop hardware maintenance a while	 >>> back.d >>>dC >>> I want to propose to my management that we get UPSes for all ofo
 >>> these. >>>lF >>> We don't need UPS for uptime, since all these system control otherG >>> stuff that goes down when the power fails.  But I think UPSes would-G >>> reduce our hardware repair and replacement costs, and would reducedzF >>> the likelihood that a system would become flakey and start failing >>> during use.s >>>eF >>> Is this justified?  Do you know of any info that would justify it? >>>eG >>> Are there power conditioning solutions that are less expensive thant! >>> UPSes that I should consider?  >>>a >>> H >> What is there to justify, you can acquire a 1500VA Cyberpower UPS forE >> $200 which is most likely enough to handle all the above mentionediE >> gear, but even if you needed two because you wanted more run time,uE >> for $400 you will eliminate any headaches directly associated withtG >> bad power; Bad power fries power supplies which can also turn aroundeD >> and do a number on system components (presuming you have no powerC >> conditioning at all). Surge suppressing power strips are a basic3G >> necessity for spikes and lightening on any piece of electronics, butUE >> the the power-cycling of gear by brown-outs, black-outs, power sin@@ >> wave formation, will shorten the life-span of your equipment. >> >> >> Barry >o >mC > I would need a way to do an orderly shutdown before the UPS shutsp > down.o* > I see a number of approaches to do this: >gB > 1.  Buy APCC UPSes and get their PowerChute product, but this is > pricer > than other options.r >aH > 2.  Buy some other product, like Cyberpower 1500AVR, that has a serialH > interface and figure out how to interface.  I don't think they provide > VMS support. >iD > 3.  Detect the power outage independent of the UPS.  I can do this@ > because all my Alpha's are monitoring other hardware that will > indirectly > indicate a power failuire. >rH > But, I am not sure how to write a VMS shutdown procedure that will runD > automatically.   You can't just put a job on the queue because the > queue D > gets shutdown by SHUTDOWN.  The only way I know to do it is to logF > onto the console and run a procedure interactively that monitors the > powereE > and shuts down as required.  But that is a hassle.  Perhaps I could  > use a detached process.l >cH > Anybody know how roll you own procedure to shutdown VMS before the UPSB > shuts down, assuming you have a way to detect the power failure? >nC > And, in general, is it possible to interface to a non-APCC UPS ina > orders  > to schedule a system shutdown?   Ask VAXman. He knows.p   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 15:30:45 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?G Message-ID: <FGI0c.31700$sl.15062@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,   Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message-----u+ >> From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]u" >> Sent: February 29, 2004 2:27 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com7 >> Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?l >> > [snip ..]o >e	 >>> John,o >>> = >>> As David pointed out, like IBM, HP is a huge $80B companys >> with a largeaF >>> number of Customer facing groups that do their best when trying to >>> answer Customer questions. >>>sG >>> If a single employee makes a mistake, as David just replied, ratheruF >>> than getting all sorts of people upset and proclaiming "the sky is: >>> falling - guess what *HP* just stated !!!", the better >> response is to 1 >>> investigate further and clarify the response.2 >>>2= >>> Yes, it would be nice if all Customer facing groups in an: >> $80B companyt< >>> could always provide 100% factually correct answers, but >> that is not! >>> the reality we live in today.O >> >>? >> Tell me again what the person in question's job title is andi >> their job description.o >> >uG > Imho, it does not matter what the title or job description is (or for G > that matter, how long they have been in that role), the point is thate@ > someone within HP made a mistake in what they told a Customer. >hA > An email to the proper resource resulted in a clarification and> > correction within 15 minutes.- >oE > If one were to look at all of the licensing programs and associatedtE > issues with HP-UX, Tru64 UNIX, NSK, OpenVMS, Windows and now Linux, F > one would quickly realize that it would be almost impossible for oneD > person to become a "licensing expert" in all of these different OS> > areas. They do their best, but sometimes, mistakes are made. >.E > I expect that the occasional mistake also gets made with regards toeF > the specifics of NSK, HP-UX and Tru64 licensing as well. This is not > unique to OpenVMS.    C Perhaps you are correct....licensing  issues are not as critical assJ neuro-surgery, where one mistake can mean not only firing and lawsuits butI also a permanent loss of one's license to practice medicine - though when J one speaks with HP's licensing dept. one often gets the impression that it is.0  J I'd be willing to wager that gaps in knowledge of more 'popular' operatingK systems licensing are fewer and further between....especially amongst thosew7 who deal with that sort of thing on a day-to-day basis.c  L So it all comes back to marketing and advertising (you just knew I was goingI there, didn't you?). The more popular VMS is and the more HP sells of it,rL the fewer 'rookie-like' mistakes will be made by the people in the licensing dept.a    J See...Gorham's and Sue's and your life would be a LOT easier not having toK deal with these sorts of issues if HP would only advertise VMS. AdvertisingSH OpenVMS is actually a time & money saving activity for HP - carly(tm) isC always looking for ways to save money....tell her to advertise VMS.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:14:27 +0100o( From: Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se>4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?0 Message-ID: <cs9k723tmq4.fsf@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>  . rdd@rhiannon.rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) writes:    G > Their attack aimed at hobbyists will never work as they intend it to. C > HP might cancle the licenses, but they'll not keep hobbyists fromaD > using VMS, since there exists a workaround to bypass the licensingE > requirement.  The way I see it, if one pays for the hardware and at F > least one version of VMS, one has a right to keep using what one hasF > paid for indefinitely.  Licenses that expire are not only unethical,D > but probably could be proven to be illegal as well if someone withD > enough money for enough lawyers could pay to have the case argued.B > Besides, that would only result in an added incentive to work onA > producing a Free clone of VMS, complete with source code (e.g.,e > FreeVMS).m  ( Hey! What planet are you living on?! :-)  C Business does whatever they like and don't give a shit about what'stF ethical. Guess why there is such a thing as Free Software in the first place? i  D Go talk to RMS, he also thinks it unethical to hinder you using yourG computer. I happen to agree, in a way, but I can tell you the corporateP world, HP included, does not.2  A Don't take what I say as an attack on your person. I just find ithC amazing to hear once in a while people rediscover things RMS preach- about...   /andreas   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 07:58:31 GMT 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>D Subject: Re: VMS Standalone Backup bootable tape image for emulator?. Message-ID: <H8X0c.17435$ko6.214745@attbi_s02>   Stanley F. Quayle wrote:  4 > On 2 Mar 2004 at 0:38, Roert G. Schaffrath wrote:  > >>>>get the 5.5-2 system back online again.  Otherwise I wouldE >>>>probably create just a 7.3 system disk and then restore the 5.5-2s >>>>backup to a second disk.  F > That, in general, won't boot.  In somewhere in the 7 series (7.1?), H > the behavior of BACKUP changed.  Your disk will restore, but only VMS  > 7.x will be able to read it.  G If one wanted to install 5.5-2 under the hobbyist license, where would s< one find the distribution tapes or CDs?   (For a VS3100-30.)   thanks,h   -- glenf   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:14:45 -0500t2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>D Subject: Re: VMS Standalone Backup bootable tape image for emulator?+ Message-ID: <40445085.718.1888DE@localhost>l  1 On 2 Mar 2004 at 7:58, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: H > If one wanted to install 5.5-2 under the hobbyist license, where would> > one find the distribution tapes or CDs?   (For a VS3100-30.)  	 Start at:i  !   http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/   
 --Stan Quaylei Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671i1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147s= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comt   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:22:29 -0000* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>I Subject: Re: VMS upgrade changed program behavior, what could cause this? + Message-ID: <c1v9u6$kvq@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>x  : "John Laird" <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> wrote in message2 news:bmn1401t59rrbuo87gbc4f634febc1kq45@4ax.com...  L > That is expected behaviour, Paul.  You will only get output if the rtl has= > started incorrectly rounding down (as Lawrence discovered).   " > A rather nasty little bug, imho.  : It can round .5 up or down, as it chooses; actually it can; round .99999 down if it likes. Arguably, for Fortran 77, itv7 doesn't even have to be particularly consistent either.c  : Personally, I think it good to be woken up by one of these; odd little things at least once in your programming career. 8 That's regardless of whether you regard it as a RTL bug,7 or relying on undefined behaviour. These things happen,l> and if you think they don't, sooner or later you'll get burnt.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:28:40 +0100- From: "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de>b Subject: Re: Zip/update Issues9 Message-ID: <c21nks$1n9ik6$1@ID-56200.news.uni-berlin.de>e   David J. Dachtera wrote: > Martin Vorlaender wrote: >>   >> David J. Dachtera wrote:r >> ..." >>> Dunno if VMS zip will do that. >> S >> It doesn't have to. My test: $ >> - Uploaded a Win ZIP file to VMS.) >> - Uploaded a Win32 UNZIPSFX.EXE to VMSm, >> - $ COPY UNZIPSFX.EXE+zipfile zipfile.EXE$ >> - Downloaded zipfile.EXE to WinNT >> - Executed zipfile.EXEn > B > Did you get any messages about prepended stuff being unexpected?  @ Errr... no. I start with an pure Win32 ZIP file, not with an SFX? archive. I'd think that you could insert/update any file on VMS:7 (not using -V) and get it extracted correctly on Win32.s   ( >>> Dunno where to get the WhineBloze SE >>> stub for freeware ZIP. >> 8, >> I just put it (from Info-ZIP v5.40) up on4 >> ftp://ftp.pdv-systeme.de/unzipsfx-win32.exe (92k)  = Update: that file is now built from the Info-ZIP v5.50 source  distro.c  # The official site to get it from is ( http://www.info-zip.org/UnZip.html#Win32, Choose a download site and get unz550xN.exe.   cu,n   Martin -- e@   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules!3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deOF    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:18:56 +0100V" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>< Subject: Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so...4 Message-ID: <40432a59$0$24927$626a14ce@news.free.fr>   John Santos wrote:  7 > Thanks to the Lumiere brothers, we all get to see :-)e  . Aaaargh... my real identity has been detected! :-)f   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:06:43 GMT.# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o< Subject: Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so...F Message-ID: <DzG0c.29350$sl.2018@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote:, > Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote: >>B >> In article <4042260E.40A1311@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J.; >> Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:.. >>> Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote: >>>>@ >>>> In article <403f1255$0$22407$626a14ce@news.free.fr>, Didier) >>>> Morandi <no@spam.com> writes: [snip]2 >>>>, >>>>> [1] ask Ogilvy to build an ad campaign >>>>D >>>> (Them in particular because of their long history selling RollsF >>>> Royce / Bentley etcetera?  Could be.  Ads in places CIOs and CEOs" >>>> see, pushing VMS or OpenVMS -@ >>>> doesn't matter so much which- are the only way to fight the >>>> perception that theA >>>> OS is already dead, and give the VMS zealots some support ino >>>> selling it within >>>> their own organizations.) >>>=C >>> Just pushing VMS in CxOs' faces isn't enough, IMO. Gotta go foru? >>> them, techies, product/project managers, ... the whole bit.c >>>w@ >>> In short: ubiquitous mainstream marketing to the nth degree. >>B >> I'm all for selling VMS, and I would have purely loved to see a
 >> Super BowlhE >> ad or something.  If we have an unlimited advertising budget, thent	 >> great,-G >> advertise everywhere.  If we have a limited advertising budget, thenJ >> the firstA >> thing we need to do is to make it possible for the techies who  >> currently know9D >> and love VMS to sell it _within their organizations_, rather than
 >> have it behF >> a career-limiting move to push VMS.  And that means targeting CIOs,' >> CEOs, and - I left these out - CFOs.r >>> >> A serious print ad campaign in airline magazines as well asD >> _Fortune_, _Business Week_, _Time_, and the _Wall Street Journal_ >> would go a long way6 >> toward raising the perception of VMS from the dead. >>? >> Ads and articles in DDJ, ACM Queue, etc, might move hobbyistn >> licenses, butB >> let's start with a policy that creates VMS consciousness at the >> corporate	 >> level.  >>C >> If we have enough money to do everything at once, then, I agree,  >> let's doe >> everything at once. >4D > Well, at this point, it really isn't a question of "having" enoughA > money. The question, as I see it, is how much begged, borrowed,oC > invested, etc. money can VMS *AFFORD* to not spend on advertsing?. > B > Seems to me (whatever initial funds) would be best spent raisingG > awareness with the techies. The "brass" will get the news soon enoughDB > when the efficacy of server virus attacks suddenly drops withoutG > explanation, and the added exposure and "enhanced" VMS revenues starti, > pushing hp's stock price through the roof. >p > Analyze *THAT*, Wall Street!    K Take the advertising money from HP's money losing PeeCee efforts. Every bignL box  and mon & pop PC store carries HP-branded PC's, printers, scanners, andI ink. Everyone knows they exist, so it's not like they'd lose mindshare if)G they weren't advertised for a month by HP directly (as opposed to co-op H advertising dollars in the weekly flyers). Doing that for a month or two3 would free up $100-200 million for VMS advertising.h   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 07:54:13 -0800n- From: phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) < Subject: Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so...= Message-ID: <5ee1d1b7.0403020754.1016e52f@posting.google.com>e  ^ Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote in message news:<403f1255$0$22407$626a14ce@news.free.fr>... > P*o*e*t*s' > Let's relax a bit. > O > You have been recently appointed HP OpenVMS Marketing Manager and you are in cL > charge, together with MaryJane V., Sue S. and Hoff H. to promote the Nr 1  > Operating System worldwide.  >  > Congratulations. > ( > Now, what would be your first actions? > ) > [ ] retire and put Sue in your armchair     $ I don't think I have ever met Sue so3 I cannot say that I would "put her in MY armchair."t/ I cannot say I would "put her in Her amrchair."e. I cannot say what armchair I would put her in.    ( in honor of Dr. Sues's b'day.)   PT.t   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 08:56:38 -0800 . From: al5vf03p02@sneakemail.com (William Webb)< Subject: Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so...= Message-ID: <d5ce4b06.0403020856.61f35a37@posting.google.com>u  ^ Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote in message news:<403f1255$0$22407$626a14ce@news.free.fr>... > P*o*e*t*s  > Let's relax a bit. > O > You have been recently appointed HP OpenVMS Marketing Manager and you are in uL > charge, together with MaryJane V., Sue S. and Hoff H. to promote the Nr 1  > Operating System worldwide.e >  > Congratulations. > ( > Now, what would be your first actions? > ) > [ ] retire and put Sue in your armchaira  	 Didier,  i  . If you consider how much Sue has done for VMS:1 she doesn't rate an armchair, she rates a THRONE.    WWWebb   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.123 ************************