1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 03 Mar 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 124       Contents:P Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEX. Re: An honest question from a VMS guy about JF ARG_GTR_32_BITS from sys$getuai ' Best Backup Blocksize for 110SDLT Tape? + Re: Best Backup Blocksize for 110SDLT Tape? + Re: Best Backup Blocksize for 110SDLT Tape? # C++ and Motif - Help Compiling Code 0 Re: Dammit Skippy, You're Pissin your Father Off Re: DVD writer on ES40- Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette - Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette  Re: EVA disk storage Re: EVA disk storage Re: EVA disk storage Re: EVA disk storage Re: EVA disk storage Re: EVA disk storage Re: EVA disk storage Re: EVA disk storage Re: EVA disk storage Re: EVA disk storage Re: EVA disk storage Re: EVA5000 - error logging... Re: EVA5000 - error logging... ftp login problems Re: FTP NT->VMS  Re: FTP NT->VMS  FTP NT->VMS  Re: FTP NT->VMS 2 Re: Getting to console mode on ES40 with graphics?2 Re: Getting to console mode on ES40 with graphics?2 Re: Getting to console mode on ES40 with graphics?' Re: Graphic conversion package for VMS. # Graphic conversion package for VMS. ' Re: Graphic conversion package for VMS. P Re: Hobbyist and Educational Licenses Available (was: Re: VMS Hobbyist License pP Re: Hobbyist and Educational Licenses Available (was: Re: VMS Hobbyist License p Hobbyist Systems - CHEAP) How can I force VMS to see remote disks ? - Re: How can I force VMS to see remote disks ?  I see the error, problem noted+ Re: Intel Article in Business Week Magazine + Re: Intel Article in Business Week Magazine  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Is NAS 150 layered or SIP? Re: iSCSI and VMS ?  Re: iSCSI and VMS ? : Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! Re: It's all about perception!!  Re: It's all about perception!! P Re: Itanium challenge in top end - Cray's Opteron supercomputer to have 12.000 C Re: Java on OpenVMS question Re: Java on OpenVMS question Re: Java on OpenVMS question Re: Java on OpenVMS question' Re: JF Mezei FAQ - Revised and Updated! ( Re: JF Mezei FAQ - Revised and Updated!!! Re: MAIL: How to delete folders ? ' Re: Mozilla, system resources and fonts  RE: Multinet 4.4A & 4.4  Re: Multinet 4.4A & 4.4 ! Re: MUMPS/DSM/M for OpenVMS Alpha # Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew..... # Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew..... # Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew..... # Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew..... # Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew..... # Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew..... # Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....  Re: OpenVMS Feelings Re: OpenVMS Feelings Re: OpenVMS Feelings Re: OpenVMS Quote of the day Re: OpenVMS Quote of the day Re: OpenVMS Quote of the day RE: OpenVMS Quote of the day Re: OpenVMS Quote of the day Re: OpenVMS Quote of the day Re: OpenVMS Quote of the day Re: Power Button on PWS  Re: PWS 433au disk problems. Re: PWS 433au disk problems. Re: PWS 433au disk problems. RE: PWS 433au disk problems. Re: PWS 433au disk problems. Re: PWS 433au disk problems. Re: PWS 433au disk problems. Re: Support of USB Memory stick  Re: Support of USB Memory stick  Re: Support of USB Memory stick  Re: TCPIP printer via ISDN- Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas - Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas - Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas - Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas   UNIX signals and threads problem7 V1.8 Mime for OpenVMS is Current, Please Resend Message + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? ; Re: VMS Standalone Backup bootable tape image for emulator? 7 VMS Standalone Backup bootable tape image for emulator? ; Re: VMS Standalone Backup bootable tape image for emulator? . Re: WARNING: Your messages are being cancelled. Re: WARNING: Your messages are being cancelled2 Re: Why does smtp mail between local systems fail?1 writing a server for Multinet using UCX emulation 5 Re: writing a server for Multinet using UCX emulation 5 Re: writing a server for Multinet using UCX emulation  Re: Zip/update Issue Re: Zip/update Issue Re: Zip/update Issue Re: Zip/update Issue Re: Zip/update Issue Re: Zip/update Issue Re: Zip/update Issue Re: Zip/update Issue Re: Zip/update Issue Re: Zip/update Issue3 Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so... 3 Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so...   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 14:53:09 -0800 7 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) Y Subject: Re: 2-node LAVC cluster with quorum disk - network disappears - which node CLUEX < Message-ID: <8a646952.0403021453.daedada@posting.google.com>   Dear Michael Moroney:   B As it is stated in the VAXcluster Principle, that each sub-clusterB formation has a calculated FIGURE OF MERIT and from this value the> CONNECTION MANAGER picks the optimal cluster and the other areC discarded. In your case described below, each subcluster would have < the same value and qualify for being optimal. Therefore, theD subcluster is chosen at random, however, the subcluster that contain9 the system that first notice the problem would be chosen.   F You have claimed in the this and preceding posts that the highest CSIDD is chosen. However, from above information given from the VAXclusterD Principle book, I can't find any reason why one CSID, Cluster System* ID, have any priority over any other CSID.  C Can you give me a reference for your claim. I am very interested in * learning more about what you are claiming.  
 Thank you, Daryl Jones       g moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote in message news:<c1vu7q$fd6$1@pcls4.std.com>... ; > moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes:  > $ > >Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes: >   4 > >>Both nodes have 1 vote, as does the quorum disk,3 > >>expected votes set to 3, quorum therefore is 2.  >   ( > >>Ethernet gets, ahem, "disconnected". >   3 > >>One of the nodes voluntarily exits the cluster.  >   % > >>Question:  which one ?  And why ?  >   C > >I checked the sources.  The node with the higher CSID bugchecks. 2 > >(CSID is based on SYSGEN parameter SCSSYSTEMID) > K > A correction to my answer: As someone else pointed out, it depends on the H > sequence and timing of writes to the quorum file that determines whichH > of the two nodes bugcheck.  If a node determines a cluster other than J > 'our' cluster wrote the quorum file it checks for dynamic quorum for the% > remote cluster, then 'our' cluster. L > (dynamic quorum includes the quorum disk).  The first check will fail onceD > the other node claims the quorum disk and the system will cluexit. > L > My earlier answer is correct but for a different case.  Consider a clusterA > of 3 nodes A B C, each with 1 vote, expected_votes=3, quorum=2. M > Each node has 2 LAN adapters and each goes to one other node only.  Thus 3  M > separate LANs, each connecting 2 nodes (AB BC AC).  Disconnect any one LAN, L > let's say BC.  Which node bugchecks?  A cluster AB can form, and a clusterJ > AC can form, but ABC can't exist since all nodes need direct connectionsK > with each other.  Both potential clusters have equal number of votes and  I > nodes. In this case, whether B or C bugchecks depends on which has the   > higher CSID.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 18:07:12 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>7 Subject: Re: An honest question from a VMS guy about JF 6 Message-ID: <4043D030.1AEB1588@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Tom Crabtree wrote:  >  > John N. wrote:O > > What is all this garbage about JF Mezei and how can it go on so long?  This F > > makes me think I am reading a PC newsgroup instead of a VMS group. > J > Although JF is a respected member in good standing in the VMS community,F > he's obviously not as revered in other domains.  It appears that hisI > views and opinions in these 'other arenas' have gotten the attention of G > some twisted psychopath who's making it his/her life work of smearing F > good old JF's reputation.  It could happen to any of us.  That's whyH > today's lexicon includes such notables as "Psycho-Hose-Beast", "Wack",  > "Cyber-Stalker" to name a few.6 > The 'net is a big place with lots of places to hide.   My last pastor put it this way:    In Heaven, you meet All Saints. ! In Purgatory, you meet All Souls. " In this world, you meet all sorts.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 00:50:46 GMT 6 From: "Ed Havelaar" <e.havelaar@regy.canterbury.ac.nz>( Subject: ARG_GTR_32_BITS from sys$getuai@ Message-ID: <43f0377d4225785035d1820ce07e109b@news.teranews.com>   Hi,   L My function below returns "SYSTEM-F-ARG_GTR_32_BITS , argument is not 32-bit( sign-extended value", which is annoying.' Which argument is it complaining about? H How do I either convert / copy that argument into something sys$getuai() won't complain about?    - Ed.        typedef struct {     short buffer_length;     short item_code;     void *buffer_address;      int *ret_len_addr; } item_node;  L //########################################################################## ##A int accountOwner (char *userCode, char *owner, int maxOwnerLen) {  /*F *  Get the name of the owner of the VMS account specified in userCode.F * owner will receive the name of the owner; maxOwnerLen should specify * the size of *owner.   * Returns SS$_NORMAL on success. */      int retlen;  $    $DESCRIPTOR (userdesc, userCode);,    userdesc.dsc$w_length = strlen(userCode);       item_node itmlst[2]= {2         {maxOwnerLen, UAI$_OWNER, owner, &retlen},         {0, 0, 0, 0}     };7     int ret_code = sys$getuai (0, 0, userdesc, itmlst);        return ret_code; }    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:41:12 -0500" From: "Hal Kuff" <kuff@tessco.com>0 Subject: Best Backup Blocksize for 110SDLT Tape?- Message-ID: <c22v2r$i2o@library1.airnews.net>   H     In search of best blocksize for SDLT tape at 110GB.... using MSL5026G tape library over 1gb Fibre Channel to OpenVMS ES40 type systems on 1gb J Fibre Channel...... Have not seen the 50-60% improvement in performance we$ expected over DLT8000/DLTIV Tape....  I    Can anyone reccomend an init, mount, and backup command that works for  your site...   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:27:46 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>4 Subject: Re: Best Backup Blocksize for 110SDLT Tape?6 Message-ID: <40453492.27B758CE@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Hal Kuff wrote:  > J >     In search of best blocksize for SDLT tape at 110GB.... using MSL5026I > tape library over 1gb Fibre Channel to OpenVMS ES40 type systems on 1gb L > Fibre Channel...... Have not seen the 50-60% improvement in performance we& > expected over DLT8000/DLTIV Tape.... > K >    Can anyone reccomend an init, mount, and backup command that works for  > your site...  D Before you go digging that deep, check that your NSRs are configuredH correctly. Make sure that the SCSI cards are in the high-numbered slots,H not the low. That will approximately double your throughput if they were
 wrong before.   E Otherwise, the usual rules still apply: us ethe largest blocksize you E can live with: 65024 if you don't need to read the savesets with RMS,  less than 32767 if you do.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 22:53:59 -0800 7 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) 4 Subject: Re: Best Backup Blocksize for 110SDLT Tape?< Message-ID: <8a646952.0403022253.69a3161@posting.google.com>   Dear David J. Dachtera:   F I have been told by more than a couple System Manager that the maximumD backup block size should be the same as the default backup blocksizeC when you are backing up from disk to disk which is 32256. Any block D size other greater than 32256 will cause the backup restore to fail.@ Thus makeing the backup useless. This isn't theory because thoseF System Managers actually tested the backup and restores with different blocksize for proof.  > Could you further explain to me or provide a reference on your& recommendation that you have provided.   Thanks,  Daryl Jones     ~ "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message news:<40453492.27B758CE@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>... > Hal Kuff wrote:  > > L > >     In search of best blocksize for SDLT tape at 110GB.... using MSL5026K > > tape library over 1gb Fibre Channel to OpenVMS ES40 type systems on 1gb N > > Fibre Channel...... Have not seen the 50-60% improvement in performance we( > > expected over DLT8000/DLTIV Tape.... > > M > >    Can anyone reccomend an init, mount, and backup command that works for  > > your site... > F > Before you go digging that deep, check that your NSRs are configuredJ > correctly. Make sure that the SCSI cards are in the high-numbered slots,J > not the low. That will approximately double your throughput if they were > wrong before.  > G > Otherwise, the usual rules still apply: us ethe largest blocksize you G > can live with: 65024 if you don't need to read the savesets with RMS,  > less than 32767 if you do.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 19:31:38 -0800 5 From: Hiroyuki_Tanaka4@excite.co.jp (Hiroyuki Tanaka) , Subject: C++ and Motif - Help Compiling Code= Message-ID: <68cfa44d.0403021931.1cb70ffb@posting.google.com>   
 Dear Readers,   C I am attempting to compile so Motif code using a c++ compiler.  The  codeA is roughly based on Dan Hellers book examples for building menus.   A When I try to compile the code I get the following error message.   A Could it be explained what is wrong here.  Note I only have a cxx 	 complier, E but I do not want to write code that will not work with standard c as  well. Sorry poor english.   ) I am using Open VMS 6.2 and cxx compiler.    Thanks   Tanaka.    ALPHA >cxx test.c   <    {"File", (XtCallbackProc) callback, (XtPointer) 0, NULL},
 ............^ * %CXX-E-PTRMISMATCH, In the initializer for" Menus[0]._menu_item::callback, theB referenced type of the pointer value "(XtCallbackProc)callback" is	 "function C (pointer to _WidgetRec, pointer to void, pointer to void) returning  voidG x<   at line number 33 in file TEST.C   #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h>  #include <string.h>  #include <Xm/Form.h>   typedef struct _menu_item  { $    char              *label;        %    XtCallbackProc    (*callback)();   #    XtPointer         callback_data;     struct _menu_item *subitems;  } MenuItem;     0 void Addcallback(Widget parent, MenuItem *items) { 	    int i; ,    for (i = 0; items[i].label != NULL; i++)     {       if (items[i].callback)3          XtAddCallback(parent, XmNactivateCallback, E          (XtCallbackProc) items[i].callback, items[i].callback_data);     } }   C void callback (Widget w, XtPointer clientdata, XtPointer calldata)   {    }    MenuItem Menus[] =   { <    {"File", (XtCallbackProc) callback, (XtPointer) 0, NULL},	     NULL,  };   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 01:43:33 GMT 0 From: Inbred Ned <InbredNed@TheTrailerHouse.com>9 Subject: Re: Dammit Skippy, You're Pissin your Father Off 8 Message-ID: <j0ea40penfnnevp2eu5gkri437at000ltg@4ax.com>  F On 1 Mar 2004 17:10:06 -0000, Answers <answers@toquestions.faq> wrote:   >FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS   E One minute you are on the stoop playing your Banjo, and the next time F I turn around, you on that fancy type writing machine causong trouble.@ Dammit Boy, SHAPE UP !!!!!!!  You're getting ready to marry yourE sister next week, and you didn't start to decorate the Honeymoon Shed  behind the trailerhouse yet.  B I kno yer mad at Mr. Mezi because he saw you wankin off on MichaelD Jacksons picture, but LET IT GO!!  Ya have more portant tings to do.B WE HAVE WEDDING PLANS BOY!!  GET CRACKEN.  Your Sisters waiting.    0 My apoligies to da groups dat my boy messes wit.   Ned Liptschitts (Skippys Dad.)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:06:56 GMT & From: hoffman@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: DVD writer on ES40 . Message-ID: <AP51c.31$ev1.23@news.cpqcorp.net>  s In article <40337462$1@news.uni-konstanz.de>, vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) writes:  : H :In article <1036q8l87538l18@news.supernews.com>, "Island Computers USA"' :<dbturner@islandco.com.nospam> writes:  :>Tom  :>6 :>This sounds like a job for "Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann"  D   In addition to comments from Herr Heuser-Hofmann in this thread...  E :>"Tom Simpson" <thomas.simpson1@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message , :>news:tPwYb.340087$xy6.1680859@attbi_s02...I :>> I'd like to install a HP 400i DVD writer on our ES40 system using the E :>> built-in IDE controller and open drive bay.  Has anyone done this 	 :>before? B :>> Will it work on the IDE bus?  I'm assuming the ES40 has an IDE :>interface... :>> F :>> I want to use it daily for archiving data in RW mode, if possible. :>> # :>> I'm running VMS 7.3-1, update2.   F   I've code working with a HP DVDwriter 200 series, writing DVD+RW andG   CD-R media on an AlphaStation XP1000 running OpenVMS V7.3-2 -- use of J   the SCSI format unit command does require a change to DQDRIVER, however.H   (Yes, SCSI commands and DQDRIVER.  If you do not currently understand D   how this stuff fits together, count yourself lucky, nod your head F   sagely, and allow the thread to continue.  You don't really want to C   know. :-)  If you want to pursue this change, take a look at the  A   version of DQDRIVER on the Freeware, and look for the table of  E   commands and inbound/outbound directions -- you'll need to add the  =   format unit command code into the driver source code table.   F   I've not tried this HP DVDwriter 400 series drive nor the 200 seriesG   drive on an AlphaServer ES40 series as yet.  The salient caution here H   involves the cable length, as some of the AlphaServer boxes have long C   IDE cables -- if you want to try this, make sure you have a good     quality cable, etc.   G   I've a heavily modified DQDRIVER which includes the above format unit E   change, but it's not ready as yet and may or may not make the next  >   OpenVMS release; it might or might not be available in V8.2.  G   The most "fun" here is finding and getting the DVD software working,  E   the OpenVMS FAQ has the current pointers -- OpenVMS itself does not D   currently integrate DVD software.  You'll particularly need DVD+R E   and DVD+RW recording software.  (Herr Heuser-Hofmann may be able to 
   help here.)   G   I expect to be presenting a session at the OpenVMS Advanced Technical +   Bootcamp on this and related topics, BTW.      --  B   FWIW, I'm posting this message from a straight-rebuild of MXRN, B   running on OpenVMS I64 V8.1.  No code changes were required; theD   MXRN source code and the build procedure were entirely unmodified.@   (The MXRN V6.18-32C code is available on Freeware V6.0, IIRC.)    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 14:53:28 -0800 - From: phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) 6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette= Message-ID: <5ee1d1b7.0403021453.7f10a8c9@posting.google.com>   v koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<c6cxZcdnCVaa@eisner.encompasserve.org>...o > In article <5ee1d1b7.0403020721.2bf1f9eb@posting.google.com>, phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) writes: L > >> ISO-9000 is still bureaucratic tripe attempting to make companies whoseJ > >> products suck look on paper good even though they still suck.  On theE > >> other hand, it's possible to produce high-quality products, with H > >> consistency, without ISO-9000.  Those who believe otherwise need to< > >> run Emacs and invoke the doctor program (at the least). > >>   > > J > > Careful.  Emacs uses a Configuration Management model base on ISO-9000I > > standards to provide a consistent product to the users.  Just because @ > > it has not been certified does not mean it is not compliant. > I >    Is that why we're seeing reports that the latest releases can't read  >    most text files on VMS?  5 Possibly.  But is a consistent error on all releases?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:32:26 -0000 , From: rdd@rhiannon.rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette0 Message-ID: <10477eqfepjpv90@corp.supernews.com>  < In article <5ee1d1b7.0403010629.3328817@posting.google.com>,0 	phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) writes:H > that a process can be analyzed and productivity increased.  Outside ofF > the US the ISO-9000 is almost a req1uirement for any company to evenB > do business.  Without it they are excluded from many competitive  G ISO-9000 is still bureaucratic tripe attempting to make companies whose E products suck look on paper good even though they still suck.  On the @ other hand, it's possible to produce high-quality products, withC consistency, without ISO-9000.  Those who believe otherwise need to 7 run Emacs and invoke the doctor program (at the least).   B > contracts for services and goodsl.  This has forced companies toH > implement ISO-9000 which in turn has increased the quality of products > as well as reduce costs.  C Hogwash... marketing and MBA (we all know what those initials stand B for: Meaningless But Arrogant) hogwash.  I don't see where overallB product quality has increased.  I still see more and more productsB designed to be less (easily) repairable, more products using steelD which are made without the assistance of whitesmiths (the people whoF finish the edges off so consumers don't cut their hands, etc. on them)@ and more and more products with built-in obsolescence that shout& "cheap and cheesy although expensive".  ? > Maybe people should be less afraid of loosing jobs to foreign A > companies who have implemented ISO-9000 and can bid lower while H > providing a high standard product or service and more attention to WHYD > these companies can provide the higher quality product or service.  9 ROFL... Planet Earth to Phil Thayer, Planet Earth to Phil D Thayer... :-) If those companies in China have implemented ISO-9000,D then that's the best example yet of proof as to why ISO-9000 is pureC poppycock.  Take a pocket knife that was made in China for example; D within a year or so, the main blade was loose and floppy, and becameB dull, and one of the plastic side-pieces fell off; the screwdriverC blades in it are more useless than smashed roadkill eaten by crows. A I've got another pocket knife made many decades ago, in the U.S., C before ISO-9000 was ever thought of, that's still in good condition C (has been sharpened a few times, but doesn't get dull so quickly!). E The US is being flooded with poorly made products from China, and the D product quality is far less than marginally satisfactory.  We've gotC less than desirable produce from countries in South America filling A supermarket produce departments, not because of good quality, but F because of corporate greed combined with political greed that has alsoA resulted in the destruction of too many farms in the U.S. by land F destroyers (oddly known as "developers" that develop little other than@ eysores on the landscape).  I'll take my cars made in the 1970'sE anyday over the little bits of rubbish on wheels produced today, that F auto manufacturers should be ashamed to put their names on... I'd like1 to see those new cars last thirty or forty years.   E > Company policies are not put in place for the purpose of making one G > lone wolf employees life easier.  They are put in place to enable the E > company to provide better and more compliant products and services.   E Many unnecessarily restrictive corporate policies are put in place to E boost the already oversized egos of managers who get their jollies by C creating and enforcing policies.  Such managers have another reason F for creating such policies: they like to attempt to reduce the chancesF of creative and intelligent employees doing things their own way whichD could make those managers look all the more like the numbskulls thatF they are to others in the company who've overestimated their potential
 to be useful.   G > (P.S. - For those who DO know me in person and know how I think, they B > probably understoood the humor that was meant by the "MS settingF > industry standards" post earlier.  For the people who do not know me  C Anyone with a reasonably functional brain should see the (perverse) ' humor in anything to do wiht Micro$oft.   F > and did not understand the humor...Go to the store, buy some corn inG > the can, get a fishing pole and go fishing AWAY from comnputers for a C > while so you can relax.  I could suggest some excellent lakes and ) > rivers in the great state of Missouri.)   ? That sounds much better for the spirit, mind and body than most A corporate environments... perhaps there will come a day when such C environments go away... we can all work towards seeing that happen.    --  N Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: M All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &  O rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such I http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 13:42:41 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 6 Subject: Re: Educating HP employees on the nettiquette3 Message-ID: <c6cxZcdnCVaa@eisner.encompasserve.org>   m In article <5ee1d1b7.0403020721.2bf1f9eb@posting.google.com>, phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) writes: J >> ISO-9000 is still bureaucratic tripe attempting to make companies whoseH >> products suck look on paper good even though they still suck.  On theC >> other hand, it's possible to produce high-quality products, with F >> consistency, without ISO-9000.  Those who believe otherwise need to: >> run Emacs and invoke the doctor program (at the least). >>   > H > Careful.  Emacs uses a Configuration Management model base on ISO-9000G > standards to provide a consistent product to the users.  Just because > > it has not been certified does not mean it is not compliant.  G    Is that why we're seeing reports that the latest releases can't read     most text files on VMS?   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 17:24:23 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: EVA disk storage 3 Message-ID: <BQIFF5PkHRU9@eisner.encompasserve.org>   S In article <c232iu$dtb$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:  > Rob Young wrote: >> In article <2VR0c.3066$yJ7.924824681@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> writes:  >>   >>  L >>>Does any one have/use the XP or the Generic HDS Thunder/Lightning series H >>>boxes. What is your experience with the technology, support, pricing 	 >>>etc...  >>>  >>   >>  ) >> 	Another thing, come to think of it...  >>  = >> http://h18006.www1.hp.com/storage/casestudies/factset.html  >>  M >> "The HP StorageWorks Enterprise Virtual Array 5000 system outperformed the G >> Hitachi modular array in all of the critical areas in the HP OpenVMS R >> environment, including the price-performance category," Young reports. "We alsoO >> noticed a substantial performance increase compared to our previous SCSI-and ! >> CI-based storage environment."  >>  ? >> 	I'd presume that was the Thunder but you'd probably want to  >> 	contact FactSet to confirm.  > = > Very unlikely. I would think of HSZ70, HSZ80, HSJ50, HSJ80.  >   J "The HP StorageWorks Enterprise Virtual Array 5000 system outperformed theD Hitachi modular array in all of the critical areas in the HP OpenVMS environment   A 	I'd presume the Hitachi modular array referred to above, was the ? 	Thunder but you'd probably want to contact FactSet to confirm.    				Rob    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:14:32 -0500; From: "Island Computers USA" <dbturner@islandco.com.nospam>  Subject: Re: EVA disk storage 0 Message-ID: <104762qsi5ba058@news.supernews.com>   How about us ?. "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message7 news:gzJ0c.175357$Po1.158822@twister.tampabay.rr.com... I > I have received some conflicting information from two different vendors  > regarding the EVA3000. > J > One of the vendors said that there is an EVA 3000 configuration that can beE > mounted in a standard cabinet, along with a couple of ES4X systems.  > G > The other vendor said all EVA storage arrays must be in a special EVA 0 > cabinet, as the bus is built into the cabinet. > 0 > Which vendor should receive my purchase order? >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 02:00:30 GMT > From: Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> Subject: Re: EVA disk storage A Message-ID: <2VR0c.3066$yJ7.924824681@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>    John N. wrote:  I > I have received some conflicting information from two different vendors  > regarding the EVA3000. > M > One of the vendors said that there is an EVA 3000 configuration that can be E > mounted in a standard cabinet, along with a couple of ES4X systems.  > G > The other vendor said all EVA storage arrays must be in a special EVA 0 > cabinet, as the bus is built into the cabinet. > 0 > Which vendor should receive my purchase order? >  >  > G it all depends on how many disk shelves you want.... if you only get 6  D shelves, then, yes there is enough room in the cabinet for 2 ES40/5 I class systems...  I am not real certain that the PDU that comes with the  *   3000 will be able to handle it though...  5 I have 2 EVA5000, with (I think) 2 - 4 more on order.   H Speaking of Storage, the XP1024 (1024x146GB drives with 32 FC ports) is > a re-branded Hitachi Data Systems box - Lighthing series IIRC.  I Does any one have/use the XP or the Generic HDS Thunder/Lightning series  E boxes. What is your experience with the technology, support, pricing   etc...   Michael Austin.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Mar 2004 21:07:40 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: EVA disk storage 3 Message-ID: <DT+UKI1G1qBh@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <2VR0c.3066$yJ7.924824681@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> writes:   > K > Does any one have/use the XP or the Generic HDS Thunder/Lightning series  G > boxes. What is your experience with the technology, support, pricing   > etc... >    	I know of a user.  8 	But curiously, what is the business case for Lightning?? 	According to Gartner, the 9970 is about 2.5 times as expensive 6 	as EVA on a per Gigabyte basis (Gartner COM-20-8555).   				Rob    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:53:08 -0600% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>  Subject: Re: EVA disk storage 9 Message-ID: <XHS0c.35481$LD5.18538@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>   H If you are sticking to the 3000 and a couple of shelves, you CAN get theF ES47's and EVA3000 in the same cabinet.  The 3000 does not REQUIRE the# special cabinet like the 5000 does.   , John N. <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message7 news:gzJ0c.175357$Po1.158822@twister.tampabay.rr.com...WI > I have received some conflicting information from two different vendorsl > regarding the EVA3000. >oJ > One of the vendors said that there is an EVA 3000 configuration that can beE > mounted in a standard cabinet, along with a couple of ES4X systems.a > G > The other vendor said all EVA storage arrays must be in a special EVA 0 > cabinet, as the bus is built into the cabinet. >d0 > Which vendor should receive my purchase order? >  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 08:21:55 -0600d+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: EVA disk storagee3 Message-ID: <kXJzwBhadnv2@eisner.encompasserve.org>e   In article <c222fv$ere$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote: >> In article <2VR0c.3066$yJ7.924824681@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> writes:T >> > >>  L >>>Does any one have/use the XP or the Generic HDS Thunder/Lightning series H >>>boxes. What is your experience with the technology, support, pricing 	 >>>etc...n >>>c >> e >>   >> 	I know of a user.  >> r; >> 	But curiously, what is the business case for Lightning?eB >> 	According to Gartner, the 9970 is about 2.5 times as expensive9 >> 	as EVA on a per Gigabyte basis (Gartner COM-20-8555).c >> p > ; > Does the Gartner analysis measure cost per GB raw or costo > per GB after protection etc. s  > 	Grab the report.  Maybe you know someone with Gartner access,F 	a more powerful Enterprise Architect or somesuch.  Laughs aside, the - 	answer is based on 4-8 TBytes RAID5 configs.n   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:37:21 +0000sO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>e Subject: Re: EVA disk storagen0 Message-ID: <c22d81$if5$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote: > In article <c222fv$ere$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  >>Rob Young wrote: >> >>>In article <2VR0c.3066$yJ7.924824681@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> writes:e >>>! >>>e >>>nM >>>>Does any one have/use the XP or the Generic HDS Thunder/Lightning series aI >>>>boxes. What is your experience with the technology, support, pricing u
 >>>>etc... >>>> >>>n >>>u >>>	I know of a user.Q >>>v; >>>	But curiously, what is the business case for Lightning? B >>>	According to Gartner, the 9970 is about 2.5 times as expensive9 >>>	as EVA on a per Gigabyte basis (Gartner COM-20-8555).  >>>  >>; >>Does the Gartner analysis measure cost per GB raw or cost. >>per GB after protection etc. w >  > @ > 	Grab the report.  Maybe you know someone with Gartner access,H > 	a more powerful Enterprise Architect or somesuch.  Laughs aside, the / > 	answer is based on 4-8 TBytes RAID5 configs.  >   3 I am note sure what you have to laugh at Rob unlessl* laughing is a way of diminishing the pain.  8 However comparing a 9970 with 4-8 TB of storage with EVA9 seems somewhat peverse. The 9970 has a total raw capacityn, of 18.8 TB and a 32 GB cache with a total of4 48 FC channel host interfaces and 16 disk interfaces with options for ESCON etc.o  ? The EVA 5000 appears to support 2 GB of cache 4 host interfaces A and 8 disk interfaces with no options for mainframe connectivity.   : It would appear that this is the classic Apples vs Oranges fruit comparison.   6 The EVA 5000 seems much closer to the Thunder 9570 etc7 than the 9970/9980. Which is probably why HP resell the & Lightning as the xp1024 and the xp128.   regardse Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 12:27:44 -0600p+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)M Subject: Re: EVA disk storagea3 Message-ID: <XGFP87ZvT44w@eisner.encompasserve.org>a   In article <c22d81$if5$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote:   >> b >> LA >> 	Grab the report.  Maybe you know someone with Gartner access,hI >> 	a more powerful Enterprise Architect or somesuch.  Laughs aside, the e0 >> 	answer is based on 4-8 TBytes RAID5 configs. >> e > 5 > I am note sure what you have to laugh at Rob unlesst, > laughing is a way of diminishing the pain.    ? 	I guess the humor is that you speculated about the contents ofa< 	the report, my retort is "grab it" but you may have to find? 	a "powerful Enterprise Architect".  The humor is me projecting A 	you as a "less powerful Enterprise Architect."  Maybe visions ofr= 	Wizards and Elves come to mind at this point - maybe not.  Ie> 	realize American <-> British humor doesn't map well at times.   	Does that help?   > : > However comparing a 9970 with 4-8 TB of storage with EVA; > seems somewhat peverse. The 9970 has a total raw capacitya. > of 18.8 TB and a 32 GB cache with a total of6 > 48 FC channel host interfaces and 16 disk interfaces > with options for ESCON etc.. >   F 	Comparing them can be quite important.  The 9970 - being monolithic -> 	contains a large amount of cache (can).  Whlie limited as farE 	as size,  (18.8 TB versus EVA's 35 TBytes) it does as you point out r@ 	support mainframes.  The whole point of large caches.  That and? 	a profit center -  a point a VAR made to me (actually sells a n< 	monolithic box).  Regarding connectivity and other options,E 	. . . I'd bet we could put together two EVA 5000s with nice amounts v 	of storage that would:G    2 			1)  Create realistic scenarios (configurations)1 				that the 9970 can't match EVA in performance u 				% 			2)  Come in cheaper or same price g 						(not certain here - " 						but worth a shot , might be  						close.  Could force the  						9970 to be quoted with 32p 						GByte cache and tilt the 						playing field  B-}     			3)  More storageh    # 			4)  NSPOF  (the 9970 is one box)a    > 	Now maybe there is a business case lurking.  Perhaps they are@ 	up against backup windows.  But the original inquiry also asked0 	about price, hence my two cents on that metric.     > < > It would appear that this is the classic Apples vs Oranges > fruit comparison.  >   C 	No.  If you are going to compare cost of implementation (and beingrE 	familiar with the poster's environment - elicited my response), the @= 	9970 makes little business sense.  The Gartner piece is veryOG 	instrumental to help guard against the "monolithic up-sell".  In fact,h0 	it can be -part- of a very effective roadblock.  8 > The EVA 5000 seems much closer to the Thunder 9570 etc9 > than the 9970/9980. Which is probably why HP resell theu( > Lightning as the xp1024 and the xp128.  A 	The Lightning gives HP the capability of being a true Enterprise A 	storage solutions provider for shops with mainframes.  There are)C 	other advantages, but they may be corner cases or tough to justifyp> 	(unless of course you are Merrill Lynch and have 250 TByte ofB 	EMC, 100 TByte of Hitachi - but their budgets are "different" and5 	I'm sure they have a number of mainframes up there.)    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 23:21:07 +0100  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: EVA disk storage 2 Message-ID: <c232d6$bv5$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Michael Austin wrote:l > John N. wrote: > J >> I have received some conflicting information from two different vendors >> regarding the EVA3000.e >>H >> One of the vendors said that there is an EVA 3000 configuration that 	 >> can be F >> mounted in a standard cabinet, along with a couple of ES4X systems. >>H >> The other vendor said all EVA storage arrays must be in a special EVA1 >> cabinet, as the bus is built into the cabinet.C >>1 >> Which vendor should receive my purchase order?  >> >> >>I > it all depends on how many disk shelves you want.... if you only get 6  F > shelves, then, yes there is enough room in the cabinet for 2 ES40/5 K > class systems...  I am not real certain that the PDU that comes with the 0+ >  3000 will be able to handle it though...m > 7 > I have 2 EVA5000, with (I think) 2 - 4 more on order.m > J > Speaking of Storage, the XP1024 (1024x146GB drives with 32 FC ports) is @ > a re-branded Hitachi Data Systems box - Lighthing series IIRC.  7 The hardware is the same, but HP uses its own firmware.      > K > Does any one have/use the XP or the Generic HDS Thunder/Lightning series hM > boxes. What is your experience with the technology, support, pricing etc...s  4 That may depend on the total configuration (OS etc.)     >  > Michael Austin.h >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 23:24:12 +0100' From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: EVA disk storageu2 Message-ID: <c232iu$dtb$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Rob Young wrote: > In article <2VR0c.3066$yJ7.924824681@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> writes: >  > K >>Does any one have/use the XP or the Generic HDS Thunder/Lightning series PG >>boxes. What is your experience with the technology, support, pricing   >>etc... >> >  > ( > 	Another thing, come to think of it... > < > http://h18006.www1.hp.com/storage/casestudies/factset.html > L > "The HP StorageWorks Enterprise Virtual Array 5000 system outperformed theF > Hitachi modular array in all of the critical areas in the HP OpenVMSQ > environment, including the price-performance category," Young reports. "We alsorN > noticed a substantial performance increase compared to our previous SCSI-and  > CI-based storage environment." > > > 	I'd presume that was the Thunder but you'd probably want to > 	contact FactSet to confirm.  ; Very unlikely. I would think of HSZ70, HSZ80, HSJ50, HSJ80.t     > 	 > 				Rob  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 23:16:45 +0100f From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: EVA disk storage#2 Message-ID: <c2324s$6no$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > Rob Young wrote: > J >> In article <c222fv$ere$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK > >> Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >> >>> Rob Young wrote: >>>hG >>>> In article <2VR0c.3066$yJ7.924824681@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>, ;E >>>> Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> writes:r >>>> >>>> >>>>H >>>>> Does any one have/use the XP or the Generic HDS Thunder/Lightning J >>>>> series boxes. What is your experience with the technology, support,  >>>>> pricing etc... >>>>>n >>>> >>>> >>>>     I know of a user. >>>>@ >>>>     But curiously, what is the business case for Lightning?G >>>>     According to Gartner, the 9970 is about 2.5 times as expensiveD> >>>>     as EVA on a per Gigabyte basis (Gartner COM-20-8555). >>>> >>> = >>> Does the Gartner analysis measure cost per GB raw or costr! >>> per GB after protection etc. e >> >> >>D >>     Grab the report.  Maybe you know someone with Gartner access,H >>     a more powerful Enterprise Architect or somesuch.  Laughs aside, 7 >> the     answer is based on 4-8 TBytes RAID5 configs.. >> > 5 > I am note sure what you have to laugh at Rob unless1, > laughing is a way of diminishing the pain. > : > However comparing a 9970 with 4-8 TB of storage with EVA; > seems somewhat peverse. The 9970 has a total raw capacityS. > of 18.8 TB and a 32 GB cache with a total of6 > 48 FC channel host interfaces and 16 disk interfaces > with options for ESCON etc.o  < Those are possible configurations, but by no means standard.     > A > The EVA 5000 appears to support 2 GB of cache 4 host interfaces C > and 8 disk interfaces with no options for mainframe connectivity.n  N True, the EVA was designed for "open systems", meaning Unix, OpenVMS, Windows  etc. , not mainframes.     > < > It would appear that this is the classic Apples vs Oranges > fruit comparison.m > 8 > The EVA 5000 seems much closer to the Thunder 9570 etc > than the 9970/9980.   O Yes and no. The EVA and the 9570/9580 are targeted at the same market segment. zQ However the way the EVA works is still unique in the industry. The 9570, the EMC sM Clarion etc. are all conventional storage cabinets, more comparible with the w: older HSG80. (the way they work, not capacity/performance)    % > Which is probably why HP resell the-( > Lightning as the xp1024 and the xp128.  J And for continuity. These are 'classic' HP products, and as long as HP UX O customers want them, they will be sold. However it is not a simple resell job, 3( the XP variants have different firmware. > 	 > regards  > Andrew Harrisonb >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 06:31:59 -0600d+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ' Subject: Re: EVA5000 - error logging... 3 Message-ID: <nJ8TOpD7BMv6@eisner.encompasserve.org>2  v In article <40442FE4.2040104@pacbell.net>, "bgInc. - You'll go where we want you to go" <ereiamjh@pacbell.net> writes: >    > K > (ps. the performance and functionality of the array is exceptional - the lF > less said about the SAN appliance, the better, (although maybe more < > should be said if it would prevent future SAN appliances). >   E 	"They" all have an appliance (management station).  Get used to the <1 	pain.  Some are *much* more painful than others.    				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:47:26 GMTi/ From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com>e' Subject: Re: EVA5000 - error logging... 9 Message-ID: <i021c.104713$%72.78406@twister.nyroc.rr.com>i  L "bgInc. - You'll go where we want you to go" <ereiamjh@pacbell.net> wrote in, message news:40442FE4.2040104@pacbell.net... >tG > Has anyone managed to get meaningful error reporting from EVA storagecG > arrays/'management appliances' via email? We have finally gotten thiscC > box (billy$SAN_MANAGEMENT_APPLIANCE) to send email notifications.i >eI > This was done by configuring it to both send and receive SNMP traps, intJ > addition to many other menus specifying that events should be generated,A > sent to specific users, though specific filters etc... geaze...a >2J > But, still, the event messages it's sending don't contain any info about" > the specific error. For example: >.
 > -------- > Type: Subsystemc< > Sub-Type: StorageWorks Enterprise Virtual Array Controller > Source: eva01f > Severity: Informationale! > Category: HSV StorageCell Eventc" > TimeStamp: 2/13/2004 11:47:20 AM > Event Code: 88030703 >h# > Event Detail: Storage Cell: eva01  >  > Event ID: 7 3 0 15 >IE > Description: Leveling of capacity in a Disk Group has finished. Thet< > identity of the Disk Group is contained in the tag1 field. >i
 > -------- >nF > How does one obtain the contents of 'the tag1 field', not present inH > this email? Seriously, are people forwarding SNMP traps to yet anotherD > 'management$appliance' for further decoding? Any good workarounds?      I Manually, you can go Command View EVA - > View Events -> Controller Eventr& Log -> Find your event -> More Details  G Alternately, you can install WEBES on the SANappliance and receive moret: detailed messages via Email (no idea if SNMP is supported)   >eD > Also, is it possible to change the username/password used by SSSU? >i > Thanks for any info! >  > -Tom O'Toole > J > (ps. the performance and functionality of the array is exceptional - theE > less said about the SAN appliance, the better, (although maybe morer< > should be said if it would prevent future SAN appliances). >u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:14:18 +0100 ( From: Ugo Pollio <ugo.pollio@oracle.com> Subject: ftp login problems]- Message-ID: <L8_0c.4$4E5.135@news.oracle.com>c   Hi all,a  L I have some problems trying to login with a java ftp client on a OpenVms ftpL server. I think, I trapped the error. It seems that my client doesn't "read"I correctly the server response, once given the username. So, when it givescE the user passord, it sends also the last part of the preceding server-	 response. > Here what it happens from a logging and debugging ftp session:   USER <username>u sendServer start sendServer dones readServerResponse start Now past inner while loop5 331 Username <username>  readServerResponse done- PASS <userpassword>s sendServer start sendServer doneN readServerResponse start Now past inner while loopo ^L^E requires a Password readServerResponse doneo java.lang.NullPointerException null MSG=Error: Wrong Passwordm    * Did anyone experienced the same behaviour? Any help would be appreciated.   Bye, Ugo Polliot   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 13:39:04 -0600n; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)l Subject: Re: FTP NT->VMS3 Message-ID: <WQ3WKGYbFuFq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <1078235823.468730@news.drenet.dnd.ca>, "Julien Rossignol" <julien.rossignol@cse-cst.gc.ca> writes: >  > Any suggestions? >   F    Which FTP client are you using on the Windows side?  The one you're    using is busted, big time.f   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:16:57 -07008 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> Subject: Re: FTP NT->VMS1 Message-ID: <fR61c.146$Ag7.55834@news.uswest.net>s  C Bob Koehler thinks your ftp client is broke.  Although I originallytF suspected the client as well, I now suspect the VMS ftp server for the following reason:r  J The FTP protocol doesn't pass directory information during put, mput, get,J or mget requests.  You set the directories via "cd" on the server side andG "lcd" on the client side.  It is the server's responsibility to use the E current directory (as returned by the "pwd" command) when putting and K getting files.  It appears your server isn't doing this.  I just checked to J ensure my VMS FTP Server handles [000000] directories correctly.  It does.  " Which version of VMS and IP stack?   Mike.a  D "Julien Rossignol" <julien.rossignol@cse-cst.gc.ca> wrote in message+ news:1078250402.78393@news.drenet.dnd.ca...V > didn't help... >r' > here is a sample of the input/output:a >t > ftp> > ftp>
 > ftp> pwdJ > 257 "SYS$SYSROOT:[000000.USERS.JJROSSI.CMSCLIENT_NEW.PLI.STUIII.LIB]" is > current directory.
 > ftp> bin > 200 TYPE set to IMAGE.
 > ftp> promptt > Interactive mode Off.s
 > ftp> prompte > Interactive mode On. > ftp> mget *.pli  > 200 TYPE set to IMAGE. > mget >tL SYS$SYSROOT:[000000.USERS.JJROSSI.CMSCLIENT_NEW.PLI.STUIII.LIB]A_RESET.PLI;1 > ? ye > 200 PORT command successful.! > 150 Opening data connection foro >hL SYS$SYSROOT:[000000.USERS.JJROSSI.CMSCLIENT_NEW.PLI.STUIII.LIB]A_RESET.PLI;1 > (   > 209.7.10.11,2684) (4542 bytes) > 226 Transfer complete.= > 4260 bytes received in 0.00 seconds (4260000.00 Kbytes/sec)  > mget >iL SYS$SYSROOT:[000000.USERS.JJROSSI.CMSCLIENT_NEW.PLI.STUIII.LIB]BIT82INT.PLI; > 1? y > 200 PORT command successful.! > 150 Opening data connection for  > L SYS$SYSROOT:[000000.USERS.JJROSSI.CMSCLIENT_NEW.PLI.STUIII.LIB]BIT82INT.PLI; > 1c  > (209.7.10.11,2685) (520 bytes) > 226 Transfer complete.; > 499 bytes received in 0.00 seconds (499000.00 Kbytes/sec)a > mget >tL SYS$SYSROOT:[000000.USERS.JJROSSI.CMSCLIENT_NEW.PLI.STUIII.LIB]BITS2CHAR.PLI > ;1?  >  >t< > I still get a single empty file on the NT side sys$sysroot >  >  >nE > "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> wrote in messagel, > news:L131c.84$M85.21463@news.uswest.net... > > Try this sequence: > >c > > pwdf > > binH
 > > prompt > > mget *.* > >tK > > Leave off the ";*" as Windows doesn't know how to handle this properly.vG > > Also the "prompt" will ask you to verify each file.  The "pwd" will  print 0 > > the current working directory on the server. > >NJ > > Please post the results of the "pwd" and also the first couple of file > names  > > prompted for.p > >u	 > > Mike.i > >uH > > "Julien Rossignol" <julien.rossignol@cse-cst.gc.ca> wrote in message0 > > news:1078240835.119454@news.drenet.dnd.ca... > > > Yes it is. > > >-I > > > "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> wrote in message/1 > > > news:jd11c.338$E%6.12375@news.uswest.net...sK > > > > It sounds like your FTP client and server aren't telling each othere > what > > > OS@ > > > > they're running on.  Is this the built in NT FTP client? > > > >3 > > > > Mike Ober. > > > >y > > > >lL > > > > "Julien Rossignol" <julien.rossignol@cse-cst.gc.ca> wrote in message4 > > > > news:1078235823.468730@news.drenet.dnd.ca...E > > > > > I am trying to get a file from an OPEN-VMS system through an Windowsn > NT > > > > > system with FTP.B > > > > > Everything is right until I actually get the file on NT.	 > > > > >hK > > > > > Here are the commands I type in FTP once I am logged into the FTPc
 > > server
 > > > > on > > > > > VMS:	 > > > > >>
 > > > > > binl > > > > > mget *.*;n	 > > > > >yG > > > > > When I get the file on the Windows side, the file appears as:i	 > > > > >, > > > > > SYS$SYSROOTy	 > > > > >S > > > > > and it is empty.	 > > > > >eG > > > > > This problem doesn't occur when I get one file at a time with  "get" 	 > > > > >. > > > > > Any suggestions?	 > > > > > 	 > > > > >o	 > > > > >  > > > >a > > > >o > > >c > > >n > >d > >o >e >e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:12:16 -05009 From: "Julien Rossignol" <julien.rossignol@cse-cst.gc.ca>t Subject: FTP NT->VMS2 Message-ID: <1078235823.468730@news.drenet.dnd.ca>  F I am trying to get a file from an OPEN-VMS system through a Windows NT system with FTP.8 Everything is right until I actually get the file on NT.  K Here are the commands I type in FTP once I am logged into the FTP server ong VMS:   binq	 mget *.*;r  = When I get the file on the Windows side, the file appears as:n   SYS$SYSROOT    and it is empty.  C This problem doesn't occur when I get one file at a time with "get"u   Any suggestions?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:35:46 -05009 From: "Julien Rossignol" <julien.rossignol@cse-cst.gc.ca>  Subject: Re: FTP NT->VMS2 Message-ID: <1078240835.119454@news.drenet.dnd.ca>  
 Yes it is.  C "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> wrote in message + news:jd11c.338$E%6.12375@news.uswest.net...uJ > It sounds like your FTP client and server aren't telling each other what OS: > they're running on.  Is this the built in NT FTP client? >s > Mike Ober. >t >oF > "Julien Rossignol" <julien.rossignol@cse-cst.gc.ca> wrote in message. > news:1078235823.468730@news.drenet.dnd.ca...J > > I am trying to get a file from an OPEN-VMS system through a Windows NT > > system with FTP.< > > Everything is right until I actually get the file on NT. > >eL > > Here are the commands I type in FTP once I am logged into the FTP server > on > > VMS: > >e > > binp
 > > mget *.*;r > >sA > > When I get the file on the Windows side, the file appears as:( > >e > > SYS$SYSROOTt > >g > > and it is empty. > >uG > > This problem doesn't occur when I get one file at a time with "get"s > >e > > Any suggestions? > >c > >  > >u >e >n   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 15:44:07 -0700e1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) ; Subject: Re: Getting to console mode on ES40 with graphics?s- Message-ID: <XDWe+NkgpAAT@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>n  . In article <kd71c.44$qG1.17@news.cpqcorp.net>,<  "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes: > ^P > 
 >>>> crash >       Tried ^P, nothing happens.e  ?    Well, actually, what happens is that the ^P is seen as input H by the DTLOGIN process so after a couple of ^Ps I get an "Invalid Login"$ box, but I don't get to the console.   > 3 > "Hein" <hein_cov@eps.zk.dec.com> wrote in message * > news:40418253.4434444B@eps.zk.dec.com...I >> Control-f2 toggles to the VMS opcom window no? (Haven't doen this in as	 >> while)t >>8 >> For SRM action you can just hit the 'halt' button no? >>K >> That should trigger the firmware, with OS support to switch the graphicsr >> head back to vga-text mode.E >> I see a two year old note about  Tru64 V5.1a (fairly recent) whichtJ >> identifies a proble with that OS as well as a firmware problem resolved
 >> in 6.2. >>H >> You might just try typing blindly at the keyboard... it is listening. >> >> --- old note ---eF >>     The system halts but does not display the console prompt on the >> graphicstF >>     head (but it does go to SRM on an attached serial console). The	 >> screen > >>     continues to show what was there when HALT was pressed. >>J >>     The machine will, though, respond to commands type "blindly" on theK >>     keyboard (e.g. >>>continue, >>>crash etc.) which is plugged into theu >>H >>     junk I/O module. An attached serial console does NOT see the halt= >>     (but does operate normally with the EV set to serial).s >> --------- >> >> hth,h >> Hein. >> >> >> Malcolm Dunnett wrote:e >>> >> > I have an ES40 with a graphics console running VMS 7.3-1. >> >C >> > I had a situation yesterday where the system "froze" ( droppediB >> > out of the cluster but didn't halt or reboot ). If it happensC >> > again I want to force a crash dump to help diagnose the issue.a >> >D >> > The problem I have is that I can't figure out how to get to theC >> > console prompt on the graphics screen/keyboard ( DecWindows isnG >> > running on there ). I thought CTRL/F2 was supposed to do that, bute, >> > nothing happens with that key sequence. >> >F >> > I guess I have an option of switching to a serial console, but itI >> > seems there must be a way to get the graphics to console mode - whato >> > is the magic incantation? >> > >> > Thanks in advance.n >> >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:10:27 -0500o$ From: Hein <hein_cov@eps.zk.dec.com>; Subject: Re: Getting to console mode on ES40 with graphics?d. Message-ID: <40418253.4434444B@eps.zk.dec.com>  F Control-f2 toggles to the VMS opcom window no? (Haven't doen this in a while)  5 For SRM action you can just hit the 'halt' button no?r  H That should trigger the firmware, with OS support to switch the graphics head back to vga-text mode.dB I see a two year old note about  Tru64 V5.1a (fairly recent) whichG identifies a proble with that OS as well as a firmware problem resolvedw in 6.2.c  E You might just try typing blindly at the keyboard... it is listening..   --- old note ---C     The system halts but does not display the console prompt on the  graphicsC     head (but it does go to SRM on an attached serial console). Ther screen;     continues to show what was there when HALT was pressed.g  G     The machine will, though, respond to commands type "blindly" on the-H     keyboard (e.g. >>>continue, >>>crash etc.) which is plugged into the  E     junk I/O module. An attached serial console does NOT see the haltn:     (but does operate normally with the EV set to serial).	 ---------    hth, Hein.e     Malcolm Dunnett wrote:  ; > I have an ES40 with a graphics console running VMS 7.3-1.t > @ > I had a situation yesterday where the system "froze" ( dropped? > out of the cluster but didn't halt or reboot ). If it happenss@ > again I want to force a crash dump to help diagnose the issue. >iA > The problem I have is that I can't figure out how to get to thel@ > console prompt on the graphics screen/keyboard ( DecWindows isD > running on there ). I thought CTRL/F2 was supposed to do that, but) > nothing happens with that key sequence.  >pC > I guess I have an option of switching to a serial console, but ittF > seems there must be a way to get the graphics to console mode - what > is the magic incantation?t >  > Thanks in advance.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:42:40 GMTa9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>b; Subject: Re: Getting to console mode on ES40 with graphics?P. Message-ID: <kd71c.44$qG1.17@news.cpqcorp.net>   ^P  	 >>> crasht      1 "Hein" <hein_cov@eps.zk.dec.com> wrote in messageo( news:40418253.4434444B@eps.zk.dec.com...H > Control-f2 toggles to the VMS opcom window no? (Haven't doen this in a > while) >a7 > For SRM action you can just hit the 'halt' button no?e >eJ > That should trigger the firmware, with OS support to switch the graphics > head back to vga-text mode.pD > I see a two year old note about  Tru64 V5.1a (fairly recent) whichI > identifies a proble with that OS as well as a firmware problem resolvedf	 > in 6.2.  >>G > You might just try typing blindly at the keyboard... it is listening.r >  > --- old note ---E >     The system halts but does not display the console prompt on thee
 > graphicsE >     head (but it does go to SRM on an attached serial console). Thea > screen= >     continues to show what was there when HALT was pressed.C >aI >     The machine will, though, respond to commands type "blindly" on theyJ >     keyboard (e.g. >>>continue, >>>crash etc.) which is plugged into the >IG >     junk I/O module. An attached serial console does NOT see the haltE< >     (but does operate normally with the EV set to serial). > ---------  >a > hth, > Hein.l >e >i > Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > = > > I have an ES40 with a graphics console running VMS 7.3-1.a > > B > > I had a situation yesterday where the system "froze" ( droppedA > > out of the cluster but didn't halt or reboot ). If it happens0B > > again I want to force a crash dump to help diagnose the issue. > >pC > > The problem I have is that I can't figure out how to get to thewB > > console prompt on the graphics screen/keyboard ( DecWindows isF > > running on there ). I thought CTRL/F2 was supposed to do that, but+ > > nothing happens with that key sequence.i > >oE > > I guess I have an option of switching to a serial console, but itnH > > seems there must be a way to get the graphics to console mode - what > > is the magic incantation?t > >o > > Thanks in advance. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 22:36:26 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 0 Subject: Re: Graphic conversion package for VMS.' Message-ID: <4044FE5A.8B2620C2@aaa.com>a   Silly me...   ; Just checked my huge bookmark three in my Netscape browser,f) and I think it was "imagemagick", right ?t   Now, is the kit at :  . ftp://ftp.imagemagick.org/pub/ImageMagick/vms/   still the most reasent ?  	 Jan-Erik.o     Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  >  > Hi.n6 > Some time ago (6-12 months) I get an answer on C.O.V. > for a package to do file conversions on VMS.$ > Such as from JPEG (or GIF) to EPS.& > This is for images for DECdoc b.t.w. > 7 > *Today* (well, tomorrow maybe) I needed that package.s8 > Do you think I'm able to find it ? No, of course not ! > E > I think it was called *super*-something, but that could be wrong...  >  > Anyone with a clue ? >  > Jan-Erik.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 22:34:01 +0100o9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>r, Subject: Graphic conversion package for VMS.' Message-ID: <4044FDC9.1CD30A1F@aaa.com>.   Hi. 4 Some time ago (6-12 months) I get an answer on C.O.V, for a package to do file conversions on VMS." Such as from JPEG (or GIF) to EPS.$ This is for images for DECdoc b.t.w.  5 *Today* (well, tomorrow maybe) I needed that package. 6 Do you think I'm able to find it ? No, of course not !  C I think it was called *super*-something, but that could be wrong...e   Anyone with a clue ?  	 Jan-Erik.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 22:29:17 GMTr& From: hoffman@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)0 Subject: Re: Graphic conversion package for VMS.. Message-ID: <1V71c.53$Wx1.21@news.cpqcorp.net>  c In article <4044FDC9.1CD30A1F@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:   0 :...for a package to do file conversions on VMS.# :Such as from JPEG (or GIF) to EPS.a% :This is for images for DECdoc b.t.w.y  C   ImageMagick (on the Freeware, and versions are available directlys@   at the ImageMagick.org website) provides various useful tools,.   including a converter with EPS capabilities.  B   As for finding the last response, try a Google groups search for  "     group:comp.os.vms eps jan-erik  ?   to find the thread, then...  (You'll find you were pointed atm   ImageMagick then, too. :-)  @   If you are still working with the Windows printer drivers, try@   specifically using the DIGITAL PrintServer 20 driver.  (One of@   the local folks referenced this Windows driver and its general;   Postscript capabilities and options quite recently, too.)     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com,   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 00:05:40 GMTV# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Y Subject: Re: Hobbyist and Educational Licenses Available (was: Re: VMS Hobbyist License py. Message-ID: <oj91c.66$YN1.39@news.cpqcorp.net>  o In article <GU81c.102759$Qg7.68174@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:d :Bill Gunshannon wrote: 
 :> In articleiH :> <Xr01c.66052$ah.17182@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John" :> Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: :>>rH :>> And while Mark is loking into it, suggest that he allow the HobbyistG :>> licenses to be used by all educational institutions, K-12, colleges ? :>> and universities as long as they are used for instructional>E :>> purposes. Seems to me that the Hobbyist licenses are less onerouse5 :>> and less expensive than the Educational licenses.g  D   The hobbyist program is in wide use, as is the educational licenseE   program, as is the CSLG program.  The former two programs are free, C   the latter requires commercial payment.  (The latter program also>D   includes specific designated access to the support centers, IIRC.)  1   From the "OpenVMS Educational License Program":c  D     "The OpenVMS Educational License Program is now available. This D     program has been created in response to customer requests (your <     requests) that we make OpenVMS available to educational A     institutions at no cost. This program is patterned after the  D     OpenVMS Hobbyist program. All the existing educational programs D     remain in place, such as the Campus-wide Software License Grant      (CSLG) program..."      G :> Already been suggested on a number of occaisions.  And rejected each2 :> and every time.  G :HP just isn't to be taken seriously then. A serious company identifiesm? :what's wrong and takes constructive steps to fix the problems.R  @   A serious company identifies where the best profit can be madeA   for a particular investment -- whether new engineering work and @   development, marketing programs, staffing, etc -- and invests    accordingly.  @   If we are to provide at-cost, cost-reduced, or free hardware, C   and at-cost or free software -- I'd expect some educational sites	?   would want some form of payment, too, since schools commonly o?   operating with fiscal constraints -- we would have to justifysB   the expenditures involved.  Schools need to pay for any platformA   migrations, and saavy school adminstrators see value in access a@   into their student body beyond its obvious availability to the   school as a labor pool. :-)      Relevent URLs:       www.openvmshobbyist.org.     www.hp.com/go/openvmsedu  @   The hobbyist and educational licensing information has been inB   the OpenVMS FAQ since shortly after the respective programs wereA   announced.  (I see I need to update a URL for the next edition,A;   but the one currently listed in the FAQ does still work.)     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqrN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.come   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 01:45:18 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> Y Subject: Re: Hobbyist and Educational Licenses Available (was: Re: VMS Hobbyist License pnI Message-ID: <OMa1c.72075$ah.6020@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>4   Hoff Hoffman wrote:@ > In articleF > <GU81c.102759$Qg7.68174@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John! > Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:n >> Bill Gunshannon wrote:u >>> In articleC >>> <Xr01c.66052$ah.17182@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,u) >>> "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  >>>>@ >>>> And while Mark is loking into it, suggest that he allow theB >>>> Hobbyist licenses to be used by all educational institutions,A >>>> K-12, colleges and universities as long as they are used for G >>>> instructional purposes. Seems to me that the Hobbyist licenses are C >>>> less onerous and less expensive than the Educational licenses.u >eF >   The hobbyist program is in wide use, as is the educational licenseG >   program, as is the CSLG program.  The former two programs are free,eE >   the latter requires commercial payment.  (The latter program alsooF >   includes specific designated access to the support centers, IIRC.) >e3 >   From the "OpenVMS Educational License Program":. > E >     "The OpenVMS Educational License Program is now available. ThisgE >     program has been created in response to customer requests (youra= >     requests) that we make OpenVMS available to educationaleB >     institutions at no cost. This program is patterned after theE >     OpenVMS Hobbyist program. All the existing educational programsoE >     remain in place, such as the Campus-wide Software License Grantf >     (CSLG) program..." >s >A >3H >>> Already been suggested on a number of occaisions.  And rejected each >>> and every time.h >a> >> HP just isn't to be taken seriously then. A serious companyB >> identifies what's wrong and takes constructive steps to fix the >> problems. > B >   A serious company identifies where the best profit can be madeC >   for a particular investment -- whether new engineering work and	A >   development, marketing programs, staffing, etc -- and invests  >   accordingly.    H Interesting television program in the past couple of nights on one of my@ local tv stations ( PBS station, I think), about corporations asB psychopaths. Apparently they fit the diagnostic profile perfectly.      A >   If we are to provide at-cost, cost-reduced, or free hardware,eE >   and at-cost or free software -- I'd expect some educational siteso@ >   would want some form of payment, too, since schools commonlyA >   operating with fiscal constraints -- we would have to justifyeD >   the expenditures involved.  Schools need to pay for any platformB >   migrations, and saavy school adminstrators see value in accessB >   into their student body beyond its obvious availability to the >   school as a labor pool. :-)a  I The standard mantra in some educational circles (read: political) is thatsL students aren't being taught what the market demands. If you want demand forL VMS, create demand by advertising...look up the definition of advertising inF any marketing text and you'll see something to the effect of 'creatingH demand through persuasive argument and value propositions'. The students( will take care of themselves after that.     >e >   Relevent URLs: >a >     www.openvmshobbyist.orge >     www.hp.com/go/openvmsedu >eB >   The hobbyist and educational licensing information has been inD >   the OpenVMS FAQ since shortly after the respective programs wereC >   announced.  (I see I need to update a URL for the next edition,-= >   but the one currently listed in the FAQ does still work.)r >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:38:51 -0500; From: "Island Computers USA" <dbturner@islandco.com.nospam> ! Subject: Hobbyist Systems - CHEAPe0 Message-ID: <10493ab97ugveac@news.supernews.com>  8 We have some cosmetically questionable systems in stock;  , Alphaserver DS10L 466 No Disk No Memory $350- Alphaserver DS10L 466 256MB 30GB Disk    $460c- Alphaserver DS10L 617 256MB 30GB Disk    $600>  @ Line 1) There are about 8 of these systems in base configuration" Line 2) There are 3 in this config" Line 3) There are 4 in this config  I We were going to pull them apart to rebuild but I figured it is better too just let em go.eJ When we say cosmetically questionable it means there may be a slight crack on the front bezel or a deep scratch on the top. G Either way, they are all functional and carry a 90 day return to Island  Warranty   --   David B Turner Island Computers US Corporation) 2700 Gregory St., Suite 180  Savannah GA 31404, Tel: 912 447 66224 Fax: 912 201 0402F Email: dbturner@hpaq.net http://www.hpaq.netm   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 16:04:55 -0600e- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)v2 Subject: How can I force VMS to see remote disks ?3 Message-ID: <1WPw1PGQTgFH@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  D Ideally I would like to avoid rebooting cluster members C, D, and E.  D But cluster member A has had its ALLOCLASS changed from 0 to 42, andD cluster members do not see disks $42$DKA100, etc.  They do still see. disks A$DKA100, etc. as being HostUnavailable.  E Cluster member B does not have this problem since it was rebooted for 8 unrelated reasons after the ALLOCLASS on A was modified.   ===================<  @ Names have been changed to protect the innocent and add clarity. -- h@ Even if a technique you know is limited to certain VMS versions, I would be interested.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 22:32:27 GMTo# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 6 Subject: Re: How can I force VMS to see remote disks ?. Message-ID: <%X71c.54$Wx1.10@news.cpqcorp.net>  c In article <1WPw1PGQTgFH@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:PE :Ideally I would like to avoid rebooting cluster members C, D, and E.n :eE :But cluster member A has had its ALLOCLASS changed from 0 to 42, and 5 :cluster members do not see disks $42$DKA100, etc....t  9   Host-level ALLOCLASS changes typically require reboots.y  >   If you change both the SCSSYSTEMID and the SCSNODE name, you3   can bring a "new" node into the cluster, however.	    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comu   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 23:14:21 GMTp, From: Paul <Paul-Dot-Mosteika@MyCompany.COM>' Subject: I see the error, problem noted2- Message-ID: <4044CDB7.72111375@MyCompany.COM>c   Hi,s  H I did a manual cut and paste from the MS Outlook message, created a textD file, and FTP'd the file to OpenVMS. I believe I have a good copy of! your message, as I see the error:e    
 MIME> sho vert MIME Version: V1.8 MIME>  MIME> open JF_MEZEI.MIME_TXTG %MIME-E-FILEERROR, file error: Filename requires a file type delimiter,h '.'i. %MIME-E-NOFILNAME, file name must be specified. %MIME-E-NOFILNAME, file name must be specified. %MIME-W-NOMSGOPEN, no currently active message MIME>M    ! I'll open a problem report (PTR).r     	Thank you,s   	Paul Mosteika   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 01:03:08 +0000 (UTC)6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)4 Subject: Re: Intel Article in Business Week Magazine1 Message-ID: <newscache$er6zth$1lm1$1@news.sil.at>t  U In article <4044985C.1010701@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:g# >Goodbye To The Chip Of The Future?. > > >When Intel (INTC <javascript: void showTicker('INTC')> ) and J >Hewlett-Packard (HPQ <javascript: void showTicker('HPQ')> ) released the A >Itanium server chip they had jointly developed three years ago,    6 Three years ago ? And where are the other years left ?  J >detractors quickly labeled it "the Itanic." Delivered two years late and I >at a cost of $2 billion, the chip was billed as the future of computing aF >because it could process data 64 bits at a time, twice the amount of 
 >other chips.n  > Wow. 64bit is twice the amount of "processing data" of 32bit ? Better forget this article...t  J >              But Itanium performed poorly on its maiden voyage, chewing < >through data even more slowly than Intel's own 32-bit chip.   And still does...   I >                                                              Potential  D >customers gave it a chilly reception, especially because so little : >software could take advantage of its 64-bit capabilities.  F And no mentioning of Alpha who had this problem 10 years ago for quiteF some time but in the end fixed it (and right after fixing this problem got killed).  F >                                                               "It's C >not 64 bits that most people want right now. It's performance and  F >value," says Peter N. Glaskowsky, editor in chief of /Microprocessor 	 >Report/.   F But its more than 32bit what they start to want. 33-36 bit may sufficeK for the next years, unfortunately there is now only 32 or 64bit offered ;-)c  H >Even Hewlett-Packard Co. is hedging its bet on Itanium. On Feb. 24, HP J >revealed that it will begin selling servers with AMD's Opteron alongside G >Intel's products. Chief Technology Officer Shane V. Robison says HP's pJ >relationship with Intel is "the deepest partnership in the industry" but J >adds that customers have been demanding more choices in the servers they  >buy.a  ? "deepest partnership" means throwing good money after bad one ?a  H >By developing an alternative to Itanium, Intel looks plenty capable of I >defending its server dominance. But the chip of the future doesn't have - >a very bright one.a  J And so does PHUX, DEC-OSF1^WDigital-UNIX^WTru64 and unfortunately OpenVMS.  @ And in the meantime I saw SAP running on LINUX on VM on IBM/370.1 Strange but obviously through better marketing...h   -- w Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERc% Network and OpenVMS system specialistE E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 04:20:44 GMTc+ From: "Bill Johnson" <res0xcil@verizon.net>e4 Subject: Re: Intel Article in Business Week Magazine8 Message-ID: <w2d1c.32998$C65.28358@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>  F So the question is - with alpha now dead and at end of life, and IntelG scrapping the Itanium in favor of it 32 bit chip with 64bit extensions,,L where does VMS run and have real longevity on a processor platform customers
 can count on?o  : First it was the VAX chipset - scalable 32 bit processing.L Then the alpha - bet your business on 64 bit processing - but Compaq quickly sent to end of life.6 Now migrate to Itanium - no wait Intel scrapped it....  K We have a Wonderful (in my humble opinion, the best Operating system on the I planet) just no REAL processor with wide market acceptance to run it on -u suggestions?   --Bill    , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A2E3C2.E48537A8@SendSpamHere.ORG...L > In article <c222th$hpa@library1.airnews.net>, "Hal Kuff" <kuff@tessco.com> writes:pH > >An artcile in this week's magazine seems to say that Intel is walking away( > >from Itanium, at least for awhile.... >l  > Just as the customer will too. >i > --D > http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityE >                             solutions that others only claim to be.  > -- d2 > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >t6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 15:53:04 -0500o* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon) Message-ID: <4043A2AA.6416043B@istop.com>a   John Smith wrote:tK > It would have been cheaper for Intel & HP to have simply adopted Alpha as0 > the processor of choice:  J It would have been the logical thing to do. However, it would have dealt aL serious blow to Intel's ego because it would have been a very public vote of* non-confidence in that bloated IA64 thing.  J However, HP could have simply shared Alpha with Intel and gone from there.  L Remember that everything Carly and Curly did was to help their masters GroveN and Gates. They figured that by ensuring the later have a very clean derrire,6 the former ensured the success of their own companies.  K Of couse, in reality, when you sacrifice yourself you help your competitor,dK generally, you hurt yourself and give your competitors an edge. Digital ande! Compaq have sunk because of that.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:47:26 GMTo& From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon- Message-ID: <ix51c.25$vo1.8@news.cpqcorp.net>W  ) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:e5 > "Rick Jones" <foo@bar.baz.invalid> wrote in message,- > news:9uP%b.1266$PF1.725@news.cpqcorp.net... ' >> Keep going down the processor count.   C > Last time I looked, IBM hadn't submitted TPC-C systems with lowerPD > processor counts.  Though (for reasons that I've already describedB > elsewhere) one can reasonably infer that a 4-CPU top-end POWER4+@ > configuration, if submitted, would handily beat the best 4-CPU@ > Itanic platform, though perhaps not by a factor approaching 2.  % What is your definition of handily?     ? I have to admit that my wetware netnews cache hasn't retained a-4 reference to your previously described calculations.  
 rick jones -- RG oxymoron n, Hummer H2 with California Save Our Coasts and Oceans plates F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 23:02:42 GMTu& From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon. Message-ID: <mo81c.61$1L1.20@news.cpqcorp.net>  P Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  ? > The LV Itanium consumes 62 watts and requires the Intel E8870v
 > chipset.  C I don't believe the LV requires the Intel E8870 chipset.  It can be C run in the zx1 chipset just fine.  I don't have numbers for the zx1? chipset vs the Intel E8870.o  
 rick jones -- l= denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance, rebirth...eC                                      where do you want to be today?/F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 12:00:10 -0800o- From: martin.walker@csf.co.uk (Martin Walker).' Subject: Re: Is NAS 150 layered or SIP?M= Message-ID: <2462c4e9.0403021200.1fae0c50@posting.google.com>E  D If you check the 7.3-2 cluster SPD, it seems that there is a ClusterA Client available for separate purchase (but I do think it's a newJ addition)...  C "OpenVMS Cluster Client licensing is provided as part of the NAS150eA layered product.  An individually available license for DS-series  AlphaServers is also provided."   / And before someone asks, the part no info is....  / o  VMScluster Client Software for OpenVMS Alpham$    -  Software Licenses: QL-3MRA*-AA.    -  Software Migration Licenses: QL-6J7A*-AA,    -  Software Product Services: QT-3MRA*-**%    -  LMF PAK Name: VMSCLUSTER-CLIENTe  B (The only character to replace the "*" in QL-3MRA*-AA in the price file is "C" = DS class Alpha)t  E I know you can trade in NAS for its individual components - but can'tRC find the rules right now (contact me off-line if you need to know).e  B Also, if you have HP right to license upgrade contract, NAS-150 is( better value than individual components.   Hope this helpsw    i Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote in message news:<403FAE0F.3040107@Flying-Disk.com>...  > Jeff Goodwin wrote:  > N > > NAS licenses are Category 2, thus redesignatable (transferable only withinK > > the same legal entity) or relicensable from one legal entity to anotherr > > within a Corporate Group.  > > 6 > > http://licensing.hp.com/swl/view.slm?page=transfer > > andr2 > > http://licensing.hp.com/swl/view.slm?page=xfer > > N > > NAS licenses are not listed as Category 1 (OS type licenses) or Category 3- > > (SIP type licenses), thus are Category 2.- > 2 > How do you reconcile that with this HP web page: > 9 >     http://h71000.www7.hp.com/swcat/us/clustersvms.htmlt > A >    "HP OpenVMS Cluster Software is an OpenVMS System IntegratediE >    Product (SIP). It provides a highly integrated OpenVMS computingtA >    environment distributed over multiple Alpha and VAX systems. 
 >      <snip> G >      * HP OpenVMS Cluster Client Software for Alpha (part of NAS150)"  >  > Note carefully "SIP".n > ? > SIPs (category 3) are, as you noted, transferrable.   OpenVMSN; > Cluster Client Software for Alpha is a SIP.   There is no B > separate license for "OpenVMS Cluster Client Software for Alpha"A > -- it is part of NAS150 and cannot be ordered separately.   Seee! > this web page for more details:v > R > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/clusters/clusters_new_features62.html > D >    "OpenVMS Cluster Client software is available for Alpha and VAXI >    systems. The software uses an LMF license name of VMSCLUSTER-CLIENT.mF >    OpenVMS Cluster Client software is included in the Compaq NAS 150. >    package and is not separately orderable." > C > How do you transfer this Cluster Client license (a SIP, but whichoC > does not exist as a separate entity) without transferring NAS150?- >  > Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:15:32 -0500e' From: Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net>g Subject: Re: iSCSI and VMS ?0 Message-ID: <kjb32c.034.ln@dadsys2.fuller.local>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:g 6> iC >   OpenVMS can and does access storage remotely using SCS and MCSPtC >   protocols, obviously, and can access SCSI storage over Ethernetd/ >   now.  (It's part of clustering, of course.)r  5 Or, in other words: Digital -- been there, done that.e   -- n           Stu    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:51:48 GMT - From: hoffman@xdelta.hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)- Subject: Re: iSCSI and VMS ?. Message-ID: <Et61c.38$ev1.20@news.cpqcorp.net>  D In article <403b9fca$0$28133$636a15ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi  <no@spam.com> writes:34 :Someone is asking in the French version of c.o.v if) :"iSCSI has been ported to VMS" i.e. any w+ :"VMS support for SCSI via Ethernet" (sic).w  <   There is no formal support available for iSCSI on OpenVMS.  E   There are ports of the Intel reference code around for OpenVMS, andtC   there is the work John Gemigani performed -- in the experience ofuB   one of the local engineers, the emulated implementation (ie: the2   host-based iSCSI software stack) is rather slow.  E   I'm not aware of any hardware supported as yet (if any is planned), C   but I don't follow the StorageWorks area and product line in any  
   detail.   A   The iSCSI hardware moves the iSCSI and associated IP stack out  C   onto a dedicated controller, and this could have the possibility l8   of being a bootable storage controller, for instance.   A   OpenVMS can and does access storage remotely using SCS and MCSPtA   protocols, obviously, and can access SCSI storage over Ethernetg-   now.  (It's part of clustering, of course.)-    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqrN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:58:58 +0000eO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>GC Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!t0 Message-ID: <c22i12$k05$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <c1nont$ra3$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  >>Bob Koehler wrote: >>\ >>>In article <wDs%b.1184$CG.424@news.cpqcorp.net>, Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid> writes: >>>p >>>t# >>>>Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:t >>>> >>>>< >>>>>Another example? Tru64 is the *only* real 64 bit Unix.  >>>>. >>>>What makes something a "real" 64 bit Unix? >>>  >>>fG >>>   Mostly the marketing department.  There are, of course, technicaliC >>>   facts to back it up.  Tru64 uses a flat 64 bit address space.> >>>T >> >>( >>And No other UNIX does ??????????????? >  > E >    IIRC the claim was made at a time when no other UNIX did.  SPARCeH >    back then was still 32 bit as were most processors UNIX was runningC >    on.  The other 64 bit processors at the time did not have flat  >    address spaces. > J >    Other technical facts could also be thrown in by the marketeers.  TheJ >    (then called) DEC C compiler for OSF/1 makes long 64 bit, consistent L >    with the original K&R concept of long as "the longest natural integer".E >    Sun, for example, kept long as 32 bit so their own code wouldn't>H >    break and added long long as a new type to handle 64 bit when they   >    started doing 64 bit SPARC. > H >    None of these proves that Tru64 is the "only real 64 bit" UNIX, butH >    they're just as good fodder for the marketing folks as they are for >    irritating Andrew.  >   = I wasn't irritated, I was amused that the old Tru64 marketing  BS was still doing the rounds.   Regardsk Andrew Harrisono   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 18:14:36 GMTt9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!t- Message-ID: <ga41c.13$lh1.1@news.cpqcorp.net>p  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> : wrote in message news:c1ijud$5d$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >a? > Counting the number of PCI slots and the speed of those slots.@ > is the last place to look on a SMP server to discover what its > I/O bandwidth might be.. >4? > Just as a hint, the PCI busses are driven by PCI bridges fromw> > the main backplane thats the place to look and if you do you> > will find that in reality the Sun's are rather fast compared+ > with what is actually on offer elsewhere.e >b  I That is a bit misleading.  You need to first know exactly what type IO isrK being done.  If the users application is capable of driving an IO device atrK full bandwidth, then it _does_ matter how fast the slot is.  If they can't, J then making sure the aggregate bandwidth of the various hostbridges and IO+ interconnect busses is the important thing.e  E Ideally, a system would have each slot connected to a single PCI host J bridge, and each host bridge would be connected to the CPU/Memory on a busL capable of driving the entire thing at full bandwidth, and driving each slotK at full bandwidth simultaniously.  In practice this is seldom the case (for. a lot of reasons).  K A fast network card, or a 3D graphics card come to mind as devices that cantK often be driven to full bandwidth provided the right application.  There iseA a big difference between a 33/66 Mhz PCI bus and a 4x AGP bus (or & PCI-Express slot) for a graphics card.  F The EV7 systems provide quite a lot of flexibility in configuring highK performance IO subsystems.  Since the IO core logic chip can be per-CPU (in G practice every other CPU), and the design allows a variety of IO drawersJ options to get the proper mix of slots for both new and legacy cards.  TheL Itanium systems beyond the very low end, tend to run a PCI-X host bridge per3 slot so that you can indeed run them at full speed.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 18:20:44 +0000tO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!20 Message-ID: <c22j9t$kh1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>4< > wrote in message news:c1ijud$5d$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... > ? >>Counting the number of PCI slots and the speed of those slotss@ >>is the last place to look on a SMP server to discover what its >>I/O bandwidth might be.h >>? >>Just as a hint, the PCI busses are driven by PCI bridges frome> >>the main backplane thats the place to look and if you do you> >>will find that in reality the Sun's are rather fast compared+ >>with what is actually on offer elsewhere.w >> >  > K > That is a bit misleading.  You need to first know exactly what type IO is2M > being done.  If the users application is capable of driving an IO device atrM > full bandwidth, then it _does_ matter how fast the slot is.  If they can't,lL > then making sure the aggregate bandwidth of the various hostbridges and IO- > interconnect busses is the important thing.e >   A Well of course the I/O bandwidth of the system is not going to bei@ the speed of the I/O bridges multiplied by the number of bridges= however its a sight more accurate than counting the number ofe PCI busses and their speed.A  = If you did that then the I/O bandwidth of a SuperDome64 would % be more than its backplane bandwidth.i   regards- Andrew Harrison,G > Ideally, a system would have each slot connected to a single PCI host L > bridge, and each host bridge would be connected to the CPU/Memory on a busN > capable of driving the entire thing at full bandwidth, and driving each slotM > at full bandwidth simultaniously.  In practice this is seldom the case (for  > a lot of reasons). > M > A fast network card, or a 3D graphics card come to mind as devices that cantM > often be driven to full bandwidth provided the right application.  There isuC > a big difference between a 33/66 Mhz PCI bus and a 4x AGP bus (ora( > PCI-Express slot) for a graphics card. > H > The EV7 systems provide quite a lot of flexibility in configuring highM > performance IO subsystems.  Since the IO core logic chip can be per-CPU (intI > practice every other CPU), and the design allows a variety of IO drawereL > options to get the proper mix of slots for both new and legacy cards.  TheN > Itanium systems beyond the very low end, tend to run a PCI-X host bridge per5 > slot so that you can indeed run them at full speed.e >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:43:39 GMTi& From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>C Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! - Message-ID: <Lt51c.24$vo1.5@news.cpqcorp.net>   P Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: > Rick Jones wrote:oS >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:   B > What exactly don't you understand ? the MAXCPU configs on F15K'sB > or the differences between this and the configuration of a 8400.  D > Discussions about trading the 17 I/O slots (you need 1) for MAXCPUH > cards in F15K's are irrelevent in a discussion about the configuration& > restrictions of an AlphaServer 8400.  E Tell you what - you can pick first - which would you like to be?  Then) pot? Or the Kettle?  I'll take the other.F  > I didn't say the tradeoffs were identical, I said they soundedD similar.  They are similar in that if you want the maximum CPU countD on the 15K, you have to have the minimum I/O count.  If you want theC maximum I/O, you could not have the maximum CPUs on the 15K.  I seek$ that as similar, perhaps you do not.  C I saw what I guess is an opposite side of the coin similarity, or agC different form of tradoff if you like, in that on the FNNK's if you-8 want the maximum memory config, you _have_ to have CPUs.  E >> You need to get in touch with the website maintainers and get them D >> to update the pages.  Their cut and paste job from prevoius pages3 >> has left MaxCPU references in place for the 25K.6    D > You could be right but since the maximum number of CPU's supportedF > in the F25K is listed as 72 vs 106 for the F15K it should be obvious* > that the MAXCPU option has been dropped.  A If it were all that obvious, I would have thought that the peopleg- editing the web pages would have caught it :)l  D >> No, it was some marketroid taking 80% of that figure, and _still_D >> getting it wrong because they took the PCI slot count and not the@ >> PCI bus count, and the sum of the PCI bus count is 13.5 GB/s.  F > Unlike HP who just count the maximum bandwidth of the CELL board I/O* > bridge x 16 ! sounds just as scientific.  A It is at least self-consistent as each of the up to 192 PCI-X I/OoC Slots is its own PCI-X bus and so there is at least the theoreticalb prospect of getting there.  C "There are 192 I/O cards in the system, each with its own dedicated-D I/O bus" from "Meet the HP Integrity Superdome servers A white paper from Hewlett-Packard Company"a  F > Or claiming a maximum backplane bandwidth on the Integrity SuperDomeF > and SuperDome of 64 GB/s despite only managing less than 1/2 of that > on a non MPI Streams result.  I >> Perhaps I make a math mistake somewhere, but can you tell me how it isfG >> possible to have up to 21.5 GB/s of sustained I/O rate when the peak:G >> marketing bandwidth of the I/O busses on the system aren't much moree >> than 1/2 that?U >> 0  & > Because your maths isn't that good !  D Very well, please correct it - how many distinct PCI busses, of what* frequency and width are there in the F25K?  G >>>So what sort of I/O rate can you sustain through an Oracle DBMS on ao >>>SuperDome ? >>   >> hB >> No idea.  I suppose that if someone were to poke around variousC >> benchmark disclsoures some guesstimates of I/O rates for _those_ G >> workloads could be made.  To my knowledge, HP haven't done "just" anpI >> "Oracle table scan" and published numbers.  BTW, I would be curious tosC >> know more of the details of that table scan, if you would pleasei6 >> provide a URL with the details that would be great. >> s  H >> The "if you want the RAM you have to have the CPUs" tradeoff seems to >> remain from the 15K.h  @ > Sorry but again this is incorrect the tradeoff only existed in > your imagination.C  > > A F4900-F25K system board supports 4 CPU's and 32 GB of RAM.= > A F4800-F15K system board supports 4 CPU's and 32 GB of RAM   F I don't think the tradeoff was imaginary - what I claimed what that if0 you wanted the RAM, you _have_ to have the CPUs.  A So, specific question time again - Is it possible to have an F25KtD system board with what Sun calls one CPU and access RAM in _all_ the  DIMM slots on that system board?  
 rick jones  B BTW, I'm still waiting for you to give the URL with the details ofB that Oracle table scan number you referenced.  Stuff like how manyD HBA's, number and type of storage, number and type of CPUs, quantityB of RAM, size of the table, size of the caches on the storage, that sort of stuff.   --  . a wide gulf separates "what if" from "if only"F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 22:03:43 GMTr9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>eC Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!i. Message-ID: <3x71c.50$uH1.35@news.cpqcorp.net>  G While navel gazing, note that a 133 MHz slot will always have a greatero> potential than a 33Mhz slot - regardless of aggregate thruput.  L I have no problem with SUN or anyone else deciding that for the adapters andH system design that they will use a particular mix of end point speeds toK keep the system balanced.  We *all* make those tradeoffs.  Nonetheless alsoiD remember that for some high-performance IO - the aggregate bandwidth% tradeoff may have been the wrong one.o  J On Alpha systems, the 2 & 4 CPU systems (like the ES45) tended to have theJ optimization tweaked more for raw performance - since those systems tendedL to be used in situations that demanded it.  While in the large system space,C the IO was tuned more for a high aggregate throughput versus raw IOrG bandwidth.  The EV7 systems for the most part do both (with perhaps the-J exception of peak non-DMA PIO performance, where say, an ES45 may still be better).      K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>t; wrote in message news:c22j9t$kh1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...i > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:' > > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"a' <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>a> > > wrote in message news:c1ijud$5d$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... > >5A > >>Counting the number of PCI slots and the speed of those slots<B > >>is the last place to look on a SMP server to discover what its > >>I/O bandwidth might be.w > >>A > >>Just as a hint, the PCI busses are driven by PCI bridges fromm@ > >>the main backplane thats the place to look and if you do you@ > >>will find that in reality the Sun's are rather fast compared- > >>with what is actually on offer elsewhere.v > >> > >  > >aJ > > That is a bit misleading.  You need to first know exactly what type IO isL > > being done.  If the users application is capable of driving an IO device atH > > full bandwidth, then it _does_ matter how fast the slot is.  If they can't,K > > then making sure the aggregate bandwidth of the various hostbridges andh IO/ > > interconnect busses is the important thing.o > >a >oC > Well of course the I/O bandwidth of the system is not going to beCB > the speed of the I/O bridges multiplied by the number of bridges? > however its a sight more accurate than counting the number ofi > PCI busses and their speed.t >i? > If you did that then the I/O bandwidth of a SuperDome64 woulda' > be more than its backplane bandwidth.  >n	 > regardsa > Andrew HarrisongI > > Ideally, a system would have each slot connected to a single PCI hostgJ > > bridge, and each host bridge would be connected to the CPU/Memory on a busiK > > capable of driving the entire thing at full bandwidth, and driving eachd slotJ > > at full bandwidth simultaniously.  In practice this is seldom the case (for > > a lot of reasons). > >.K > > A fast network card, or a 3D graphics card come to mind as devices thato cantL > > often be driven to full bandwidth provided the right application.  There isE > > a big difference between a 33/66 Mhz PCI bus and a 4x AGP bus (or * > > PCI-Express slot) for a graphics card. > >nJ > > The EV7 systems provide quite a lot of flexibility in configuring highK > > performance IO subsystems.  Since the IO core logic chip can be per-CPUI (inkK > > practice every other CPU), and the design allows a variety of IO drawerfI > > options to get the proper mix of slots for both new and legacy cards.e ThedL > > Itanium systems beyond the very low end, tend to run a PCI-X host bridge per 7 > > slot so that you can indeed run them at full speed.n > >  > >r > >  > >f >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:24:53 +0100 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> ( Subject: Re: It's all about perception!!: Message-ID: <c22nio$1oevqu$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>  - On 2004-03-02 19:42, "Bill Gunshannon" wrote:a  A > I would suggest those who still have doubts about how the world ? > percieves VMS should read the latest copy of The Risks Digestf! > (also available as comp.risks).e  H Do you refer to the "Subject: Re: Buffer overflows and Multics" article?   Michaely   -- e; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.s@ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system.w5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 19:47:23 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)( Subject: Re: It's all about perception!!: Message-ID: <c22oca$1oejah$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  : In article <c22nio$1oevqu$1@id-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>,6 	Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> writes:/ > On 2004-03-02 19:42, "Bill Gunshannon" wrote:S > B >> I would suggest those who still have doubts about how the world@ >> percieves VMS should read the latest copy of The Risks Digest" >> (also available as comp.risks). > J > Do you refer to the "Subject: Re: Buffer overflows and Multics" article? >   1 Yes.  And here I wasn't even invited to the wake.D   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:52:05 GMTe9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>hY Subject: Re: Itanium challenge in top end - Cray's Opteron supercomputer to have 12.000 Cr- Message-ID: <9m71c.46$bG1.3@news.cpqcorp.net>y  K Cray isn't building a general purpose system.  It is a MP system for highlymI parallel applications.  Not the best single-stream FP performance, but if-H you throw enough CPU's at a problem, the cost to use the best can be too high.l  H Note that except for this same type of lunatic fringe system - nobody isH building large x86-32 based SMP systems because there were problems withJ scaling.  Both in the most common x86 OS (Windows) and in the chip design.H It's a lot harder, and takes a lot longer to get a cache coherent SMP orG NUMA system to work than single CPU or small CPU count systems to work.     ; "mist dragon" <mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com> wrote in messagee7 news:7500353b.0402262327.77b2f969@posting.google.com...dG > Intel has indicated Itanium will concentrate on high end computing toiE > platforms where Opteron cannot cope. Cray is buying OcticaBay, that - > makes Opteron computer having 12.000 CPU's.. > ; > So Itanium will be reserved to systems above 12K CPU's :)2 > H > Seriously speaking, there is no place to hide or preserved to Itanium.E > On small systems it is challenged with AMD64 and IAMD64 and on high>C > end with all the current players (IBM PowerPC, Sun Sparc) and nowmD > including AMD64. According IDC, AMD is already selling Opterons in# > factor 2.5-1 compared to itanium.  >  > Mc   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 13:49:00 -0600u; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)l% Subject: Re: Java on OpenVMS questione3 Message-ID: <64o$G7ciGmxo@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  d In article <tn21c.2000$rB4.899@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> writes:E > Seeing the references to the JDK v1.4 and the JRE [Java 2 Run-time iL > Environment], is it accurate to say that full J2EE application support is ? > now built into the core O.S. [or can be downloaded for free]?   >    Can be downloaded for free.  We've been using it for years.E    Check the release notes to see if some small piece that didn't get2@    ported will affect you (these have been getting pretty rare).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:51:02 +0000cO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>e% Subject: Re: Java on OpenVMS question.0 Message-ID: <c22e1n$ipd$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Chuck Chopp wrote:H > I've been away from OpenMVS work for about 3 years now, mostly due to J > market pressure and the needs of existing clients.  However, I might be D > needing to get back into working more closely with OpenVMS in the E > context of Java-based applications and web services in the not too m > distant future.  > , > While reading over the following web page: > R > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v2/articles/internet_for_openvms.html  >  > F > I came upon the statement that "All of Java, including the software F > development kit" is included for free as part of OpenVMS Alpha v7.3. > E > Seeing the references to the JDK v1.4 and the JRE [Java 2 Run-time eI > Environment], is it accurate to say that full J2EE application support  B > is now built into the core O.S. [or can be downloaded for free]? >   < No, you can get J2SE for OpenVMS for free as a download from HP.   @ You can download a free trial copy of BEA Weblogic 8 for OpenVMS@ though you need to adhere to the trial agreement, that will give you a J2EE environment.t   Or you could look at Jboss etc.l   Regardsa Andrew Harrisonl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:30:23 -0500r* From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>% Subject: Re: Java on OpenVMS question : Message-ID: <qr31c.19929$6e7.19383@bignews1.bellsouth.net>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:   > Chuck Chopp wrote: > F >> Seeing the references to the JDK v1.4 and the JRE [Java 2 Run-time J >> Environment], is it accurate to say that full J2EE application support C >> is now built into the core O.S. [or can be downloaded for free]?  >> > > > No, you can get J2SE for OpenVMS for free as a download from > HP.  > B > You can download a free trial copy of BEA Weblogic 8 for OpenVMSB > though you need to adhere to the trial agreement, that will give > you a J2EE environment.  > ! > Or you could look at Jboss etc.     L If I download the JVM v1.4 from HP and install it, how does that impact the A use of Tomcat?  From an administrator's point of view, I've done kK installations of the JVM v1.4 on NetWare v6.x and Linux servers to support  L subsequent installation of the Tomcat J2EE app server to run some web-based  applications on those servers.  M Is it proper to say that both Tomcat and Weblogic require the same JVM v1.4, .M and that it is the app server itself that provides the J2EE API's [e.g. code s  libraries, JAR archives, etc..]?  L Also, the use of various Java Beans, raises some questions.  If a java bean M is named as being an "enterprise java bean", does that mean that it can only iL be used by an app running on an app server that implements J2EE?  If I just M have the plain old JVM v1.4 installed, am I limited to only using beans that  ( are named as being "light weight beans"?  K I'm trying to determine what's the lowest cost set of tools that I need to tI get started with.  Tomcat is free, Weblogic costs $$$, NetBeans is free,  E JBuilder costs $$$, etc..., with corresponding trade-offs in cost of /4 software vs. availability of vendor support, etc....     TIA,   ChuckE --   Chuck Chopp   8 ChuckChopp (at) rtfmcsi (dot) com http://www.rtfmcsi.com1                                    ICQ # 22321532o@ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax4 Greer, SC  29651                  800 774 0718 pagerC                                    8007740718 (at) skytel (dot) comr  , Do not send me unsolicited commercial email.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:57:24 +0000rO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>e% Subject: Re: Java on OpenVMS question 0 Message-ID: <c22hu5$k05$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Chuck Chopp wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >> Chuck Chopp wrote:p >>G >>> Seeing the references to the JDK v1.4 and the JRE [Java 2 Run-time pC >>> Environment], is it accurate to say that full J2EE application rL >>> support is now built into the core O.S. [or can be downloaded for free]? >>>  >>? >> No, you can get J2SE for OpenVMS for free as a download from  >> HP. >>C >> You can download a free trial copy of BEA Weblogic 8 for OpenVMShC >> though you need to adhere to the trial agreement, that will give  >> you a J2EE environment. >>" >> Or you could look at Jboss etc. >  >  > J > If I download the JVM v1.4 from HP and install it, how does that impact G > the use of Tomcat?  From an administrator's point of view, I've done eE > installations of the JVM v1.4 on NetWare v6.x and Linux servers to tG > support subsequent installation of the Tomcat J2EE app server to run n/ > some web-based applications on those servers.  >   3 You need it to use Tomcat and something like Jboss.-I > Is it proper to say that both Tomcat and Weblogic require the same JVM oJ > v1.4, and that it is the app server itself that provides the J2EE API's - > [e.g. code libraries, JAR archives, etc..]?t >   ? Not necessarely the commercial J2EE apps servers tend to have a0: more restricted set of JVM support you would need to check( what the free trial requires on OpenVMS.    I > Also, the use of various Java Beans, raises some questions.  If a java  K > bean is named as being an "enterprise java bean", does that mean that it lF > can only be used by an app running on an app server that implements J > J2EE?  If I just have the plain old JVM v1.4 installed, am I limited to @ > only using beans that are named as being "light weight beans"? > J > I'm trying to determine what's the lowest cost set of tools that I need H > to get started with.  Tomcat is free, Weblogic costs $$$, NetBeans is J > free, JBuilder costs $$$, etc..., with corresponding trade-offs in cost 9 > of software vs. availability of vendor support, etc...., >   : Tomcat is a serverlet container not a EJB container so you? cannot deploy EJB's in Tomcat without some additional software,o9 this is where Jboss, BEA, OpenEJB, Sun's JES etc come in.>  = You can bind EJB's into Tomcats naming hierachy so that JSP's  and Serverlets can access them.q  : If you are looking for free then JBoss is free I think. It- comes with Tomcat as well or at least it did.s   Regardso Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:39:56 -0500c  From: Adnan <bekat@sympatico.ca>0 Subject: Re: JF Mezei FAQ - Revised and Updated!, Message-ID: <4045295C.9FC29219@sympatico.ca>   Answers wrote: >    [snip]  < Oh please... Why don't you revise yourself out of existence?   Adnan    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:40:56 -0500r  From: Adnan <bekat@sympatico.ca>1 Subject: Re: JF Mezei FAQ - Revised and Updated!!f, Message-ID: <40452998.510FD4F3@sympatico.ca>   Answers wrote: >  > FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
 >    About
 > JF MEZEI >  > (Rev. Mar. 01, 2004) >  > 1.  Who is JF Mezei? > I > Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever hitrL > rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also one of the+ > longest running trolls in usenet history.>   [snip]  $ Jeez. You sure like using hyperbole.   Adnano   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:38:59 -0500 $ From: Hein <hein_cov@eps.zk.dec.com>* Subject: Re: MAIL: How to delete folders ?. Message-ID: <40418903.6B53C18D@eps.zk.dec.com>   JF Mezei wrote:   6 > I spent time cleaning up my mailbox.  (VAX VMS 7.2 ) >nO > Something about MAIL would make my X-server crash. And even though I may have H > pressed the "DELETE" key for say 20 messages (and each of those markedP > "deleted"), after the crash, when I would get back in, those message were back > in, no sign of deletion.  > Decwindows mail is kinda special, 'helping' behing the scenes.  N > So, how does one go about deleting a folder in either DECW or CC versions of > MAIL ?  B Delete the last message... and any stale remaing part thereof :-).D You should perhpas try a DCL CONVERT or a MAIL COMPRESS on the file,J to make sure the RMS internal structure is sane, but I expect little help.  7 Here is an old note of mine that will probably help....sF ----------------------------------------------------------------------P Note 1402.1                cannot delete empty folder                     1 of 6P STAR::VANDENHEUVEL "Famille Nombreuse"                9 lines  13-MAY-1992 09:16F ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To analyze I suggest a:                 $OPEN/READ/WRITE/SHARE=WRITE file MAIL.MAIB                 $READ/INDEX=1/KEY="funny folder name" file reccord#                 $SHOW SYMBOL recordS    To fix you may try $READ /DELETE   Hein. G -----------------------------------------------------------------------t  " You can also analyze further usng:! $OPEN/WRITE funny funny-mail.datai $WRITE/SYMB record funny $CLOSE funny $DUMP...   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 18:51:17 GMT19 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>00 Subject: Re: Mozilla, system resources and fonts- Message-ID: <FI41c.19$sn1.0@news.cpqcorp.net>i  A The fonts may be TrueType (or whatever it's called) and are beingi rasterized?     ; "Martin Kirby" <martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 6 news:224291b.0402260142.1cb600dd@posting.google.com...D > Another guess then. If the display server is OpenVMS how much time@ > during this delay is it spending in LEF state rather than HIB? >aF > If the server is sending lots of data to the client and the InternetF > pipe fills up then the server stops in LEF waiting for space to send > more data. >u > Martin Kirby   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:15:50 -0500$ From: Mike Duffy <Duffy@process.com>  Subject: RE: Multinet 4.4A & 4.4> Message-ID: <63D30D6E10CFD11190A90000F805FE860492B4A1@LESPAUL>   > -----Original Message-----: > From: bhushann@hotmail.com [mailto:bhushann@hotmail.com]' > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:09 AM( > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com, > Subject: Multinet 4.4A & 4.4 >  >  > Hi,f >   F >      I am posting this message essentially because we got a Multinet  > 4.4 written on the CD with us.@ > And we have a requirement that says, install 4.4A of Multinet.F > Is there a difference between what is mentioned on CD as 4.4 and the$ > one we are looking for i.e., 4.4A. >  > Thanks in Advance. >  > Rgds, 	 > Bhushanw   Hi Bhushan,e  8 "MultiNet V4.4" and "MultiNet V4.4A" are the same thing.  C Sometimes, a new version is released, and the letter is incrementede= without changing the minor version number, for example, V4.1AaB and V4.1B.  Version V4.4 has no "B" version, therefore a reference to "V4.4" must mean "V4.4A".    > The next version of MultiNet will be V5.0, so there never will be a V4.4B.-  
 Mike Duffy Process Software   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 12:37:05 GMTl< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)  Subject: Re: Multinet 4.4A & 4.40 Message-ID: <c21v5h$6ht$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  l In article <8a3b834.0403020409.73aeefef@posting.google.com>, bhushann@hotmail.com (Bhushan Narkhede) writes:E >     I am posting this message essentially because we got a Multinetw >4.4 written on the CD with us. ? >And we have a requirement that says, install 4.4A of Multinet. E >Is there a difference between what is mentioned on CD as 4.4 and the(# >one we are looking for i.e., 4.4A.d  F As far as I recall you get 4.4A as soon as you have patches installed.L So install 4.4 and have a look at Process' website for any relevant patches.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannr   --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germanyt9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.htmlw   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:14:51 -0600g@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>* Subject: Re: MUMPS/DSM/M for OpenVMS Alpha6 Message-ID: <4045318B.97B9FEC4@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > { > In article <4043CF82.DD59DD9C@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:  > H > > Also, existing documentation on the MUMPS langauge is becoming a bitJ > > rare. One of my vendors holds it almost a trade-secret. If you do findL > > something coherent and understandable, please post the URL (or book name, > > and publisher) here. I'd like to see it. > Q > Many years ago it became an ANSI standard, so ANSI should sell a specification..  C I'm really looking for a Language Reference Manual, preferably withe% heavily commented/annotated examples.    -- - David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:41:51 -05000* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>, Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....) Message-ID: <4044F18E.E5668ECF@istop.com>l   John Smith wrote: J > Maybe Sun should offer to buy OpenVMS from HP. At least it would be wellB > marketed and would finally give you guys something good to sell.  H Oh ! I'd love to see that. We could write a book about Digital employeesN opinions. Show their opinions about IA64 prior to and after June 25 2001, then@ show their opinions of Sparc prior to and after the move to Sun.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 23:38:45 GMT6# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>m, Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....I Message-ID: <9W81c.102773$Qg7.88433@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > John Smith wrote:>+ >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:? >> >>> John Smith wrote:h >>>i- >>>> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:P >>>> >>>> >>>>> John Smith wrote:  >>>>>  >>>>>o/ >>>>>> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:b >>>>>> >>>  >>> Scorn about OpenVMS no.  >> >> >>F >> Maybe Sun should offer to buy OpenVMS from HP. At least it would beH >> well marketed and would finally give you guys something good to sell. >> >,> > You missed the smiley or did you actually think that OpenVMS > is the only good OS ?. > = > Remember its that attitude that got me posting in the firstd > place.    , I clicked send before I added MY smiley  :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:02:54 +0000eO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> , Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....0 Message-ID: <c21pkv$bnd$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   John Smith wrote: * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >>Bob Koehler wrote: >>C >>>In article <c1viph$eag$4@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison0D >>>SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >>>  >>>j9 >>>>Which as you know perfectly well require patching for6+ >>>>security just like HP's TCPIP Services.p >>>p >>>AC >>>   Yes.  And having applied them all we are also quite aware howcC >>>   few of them there have been compared to, say, Sun's products.  >>>n >> >>Are you now. >>: >>Remind me did you manage to support your security claims >>with hard data ????????? >>$ >>What is it that trolls do ???????? >  >  >  > Give it a rest Andrew. > J > You're beginning to sound a lot like the Monty Python 'Argument' sketch,L > which while brilliant (no offence, but you just aren't in the same league)I > began to wear thin after about the 100th viewing. You're well past 100.i >  >   : Sorry mate but the problem is Bob and yours not mine, when@ people such as Bob and Bob make claims that they fail to supportC with anything other than I have seen something that I cannot repeatt9 or publish which proves you are wrong then the problem is " with the person making that claim.  : I have bothered to support my argument with published data from a range of sources.  ; The fact that OpenVMS security trolls keep on repeating the 8 same line is their problem, if you don't like the answer9 I keep repeating then your most sensible course of actiond0 would be to ask them nicely to cease and desist.  ; For every action there is a reaction, you will not find one : single instance of me claiming that Solaris is more secure8 than OpenVMS in order to elicit a response, on the other5 had you will find plenty of OpenVMS security trollings to get a response.  ; I could of course follow the line of not feeding the trollsr: but since they seem to be attempting FUD Solaris and other8 UNIX/Linux OS's I have decided to continue to respond to their trolling.c   Regardso Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:51:40 GMTs# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>T, Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....I Message-ID: <Mj01c.66004$ah.1818@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > John Smith wrote:a+ >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  >> >>> Bob Koehler wrote: >>>iE >>>> In article <c1viph$eag$4@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew HarrisonwF >>>> SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >>>> >>>>; >>>>> Which as you know perfectly well require patching for_- >>>>> security just like HP's TCPIP Services.s >>>> >>>>D >>>>   Yes.  And having applied them all we are also quite aware howD >>>>   few of them there have been compared to, say, Sun's products. >>>> >>>o >>> Are you now. >>>/< >>> Remind me did you manage to support your security claims >>> with hard data ????????? >>>h& >>> What is it that trolls do ???????? >> >> >> >> Give it a rest Andrew.  >>C >> You're beginning to sound a lot like the Monty Python 'Argument'fD >> sketch, which while brilliant (no offence, but you just aren't inE >> the same league) began to wear thin after about the 100th viewing.t >> You're well past 100. >> >> >e< > Sorry mate but the problem is Bob and yours not mine, whenB > people such as Bob and Bob make claims that they fail to supportE > with anything other than I have seen something that I cannot repeatt; > or publish which proves you are wrong then the problem ism$ > with the person making that claim. >O< > I have bothered to support my argument with published data > from a range of sources. > = > The fact that OpenVMS security trolls keep on repeating the : > same line is their problem, if you don't like the answer; > I keep repeating then your most sensible course of actiond2 > would be to ask them nicely to cease and desist. >g= > For every action there is a reaction, you will not find one < > single instance of me claiming that Solaris is more secure: > than OpenVMS in order to elicit a response, on the other7 > had you will find plenty of OpenVMS security trollinge > to get a response. >s= > I could of course follow the line of not feeding the trollsn< > but since they seem to be attempting FUD Solaris and other: > UNIX/Linux OS's I have decided to continue to respond to > their trolling.z    J If you are the self-appointed guardian of all thing unfairly maligned, I'dI expect you to be defending OpenVMS first and foremost as it surely is theeH most maligned and scorn  heaped upon o/s out there. I think it all beganL back around 1984-5 timeframe by some guys named Joy and McNealy. Perhaps you should have a go at them.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:15:15 GMTd# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>X, Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....I Message-ID: <Di31c.67083$ah.6442@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>-  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > John Smith wrote:a+ >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:t >> >>> John Smith wrote:b >>>6- >>>> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:n >>>> >n? >> If you are the self-appointed guardian of all thing unfairlynF >> maligned, I'd expect you to be defending OpenVMS first and foremostC >> as it surely is the most maligned and scorn  heaped upon o/s outnC >> there. I think it all began back around 1984-5 timeframe by somesD >> guys named Joy and McNealy. Perhaps you should have a go at them. >> >> > G > I don't think you will find that Sun has heaped much scorn on OpenVMS ( > Digital, Compaq and HP yes OpenVMS no. >iD > You seem to be confusing the message concerning OpenVMS's owner du& > jour with the message about OpenVMS. > D > And if you bother to look you will also find that contrary to your> > apparent belief I have also not heaped any scorn on OpenVMS. >iG > Scorn on OpenVMS's owners and the hardware platforms that OpenVMS hasm > been forced to run on yes. >i: > Scorn on the dubious practices of the OpenVMS choir yes. >kB > Scorn on the almost total lack of knowledge of the OpenVMS choir@ > about competitive OS's coupled with an apparent willingness to5 > broadcast this lack of knowledge to all any sundry.e >x > Scorn about OpenVMS no.v    H Maybe Sun should offer to buy OpenVMS from HP. At least it would be well@ marketed and would finally give you guys something good to sell.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 18:01:42 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>5, Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....0 Message-ID: <c22i66$k10$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   John Smith wrote:a* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >>John Smith wrote:e >>+ >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  >>>m >>>r >>>>John Smith wrote:f >>>> >>>>- >>>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:h >>>>>l >> >>Scorn about OpenVMS no.s >  >  > J > Maybe Sun should offer to buy OpenVMS from HP. At least it would be wellB > marketed and would finally give you guys something good to sell. >   < You missed the smiley or did you actually think that OpenVMS is the only good OS ?t  ; Remember its that attitude that got me posting in the firstb place.   Regardsn Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 18:16:47 +0000oO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>m, Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....0 Message-ID: <c22j2f$kdp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote: >>-----Original Message-----* >>From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 1 >>[mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]   >>Sent: March 2, 2004 10:50 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms. >>Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew..... >> >>John Smith wrote:o >>+ >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:U >>>0 >>>  >>>>John Smith wrote:t >>>> >>>>- >>>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:t >>>>>I >>7 >>>If you are the self-appointed guardian of all thing   >> >>unfairly maligned, t >>= >>>I'd expect you to be defending OpenVMS first and foremost   >> >>as it surely I >>> >>>is the most maligned and scorn  heaped upon o/s out there.  >>
 >>I think it s >>E >>>all began back around 1984-5 timeframe by some guys named Joy and l1 >>>McNealy. Perhaps you should have a go at them.s >>>a >>>b >>@ >>I don't think you will find that Sun has heaped much scorn on 0 >>OpenVMS Digital, Compaq and HP yes OpenVMS no. >>< >>You seem to be confusing the message concerning OpenVMS's / >>owner du jour with the message about OpenVMS.t >>@ >>And if you bother to look you will also find that contrary to C >>your apparent belief I have also not heaped any scorn on OpenVMS.  >>< >>Scorn on OpenVMS's owners and the hardware platforms that ( >>OpenVMS has been forced to run on yes. >>: >>Scorn on the dubious practices of the OpenVMS choir yes. >>= >>Scorn on the almost total lack of knowledge of the OpenVMS e8 >>choir about competitive OS's coupled with an apparent D >>willingness to broadcast this lack of knowledge to all any sundry. >> >>Scorn about OpenVMS no.o >>	 >>Regardso >>Andrew Harrison  >> >  > 	 > Andrew,g > G > Come on now .. Sales 101 says never directly downgrade an competitiveoF > vendors product. You lose all credibility when you directly attack a; > competitors product when you have a competitive offering.s > G I am not a sales person and never have been so your attempts to providee7 me with free sales training are pointless if revealing.,  G > If A Sales person wants to position their product over a competitors, J > the general rule of thumb is that you say "well, I agree OS x is a greatI > product, but it is to bad about..." [pick one of the following: a.) the@F > lack of commitment by the owner, b.) lack of R&D, c.) lack of marketH > acceptance d.) lack of ISV acceptance, e.) what the Analyst of the dayB > says, or f) how poorly the OS owner is doing financially etc ... >   = What does any of that have to do with the technical merits of 	 OpenVMS ?b  9 All of those are examples of what has been wrong with thed< owner du jour of OpenVMS and their treatment of the OS, none1 of them are technical judgments about its merits.a  F > If a HP/IBM/Dell Sales rep is in a competitive situation where a SunJ > Customer is looking at future options, the typical Sales rep would stateG > "I agree that Solaris is a great OS, but it is to bad about ... [pickt > one of the above...] >   E None of which again has anything to do with the technical capabiliteso
 of the OS.  < The issue with you and the rest of the OpenVMS choir is that: not only are your non technical points generally incorrect9 in this context but sadly your technical points have alsoh been woefully incorrect.  @ For example almost all the OpenVMS advocates attempts to compare< and contrast OpenVMS clustering vs UNIX clustering have been technically incorrect.  9 This isn't about marketing or making sales points none ofd5 which you do well this is about getting the technicaln> arguments wrong as well. At least if all you did was marketing7 and sales given their "soft" nature you could argue the> toss.g  ; Have you read a Rob Young contribution in the last 2 years,t< do you think he is doing a good job at any level, technical,4 sales, marketing of advancing OpenVMS's cause ??????   And then you get to Bob.J > Lets get real here. You are a competitior (albeit with a reasonable techH > background) who spends 80-90% of his online time in the OpenVMS forum.F > You sometimes do offer good replies in some areas, but that is mixedC > with replies in other areas that are based on the above strategy.O > H > Since the AIX, Windows, HP-UX and Linux forums are also likely full ofH > criticisms of Sun/Solaris and, hence also need to be "corrected" (yourJ > reason for spending so much time in comp.os.vms), I can only assume thatF > your motives are based on creating FUD in the newsgroup (albeit in a  > fairly sophisticated manner).  >   D Why not have a look, you will find very few threads in other groups < start off with the level of FUD that Bob and Rob can manage.   regardst Andrew Harrisonh   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 13:44:23 -0800h7 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)h Subject: Re: OpenVMS Feelingsn= Message-ID: <8a646952.0403021344.6946aaf5@posting.google.com>a   Dear Phillip Thayer:  ; I thank you for this information on VMS for the Coleges and D Universities. This is excellant. Now for the hardware. Is there someF good prices for the hardware that supports VMS? If we start today withD introducing VMS to the colleges and Universities do we use the Alpha? or IA64? What about other software? For example: Oracle on VMS?    Regards, Daryl Jonesc  r phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) wrote in message news:<5ee1d1b7.0403020743.5a343d7e@posting.google.com>...j > jealousxmp@aol.com (jealous xmp) wrote in message news:<20040302011742.02207.00000730@mb-m19.aol.com>...N > > >That's just what I was thinking (see my other posting). If the universityL > > >students using Linux and Micro$oft products aren't won over, all may be > > >lost. y > > K > > There may be some truth to that.  Although I had seen a VMS system as apR > > teenager, i didn't really use a vms shell until after college.  My college wasQ > > almost exclusively Macs and Solaris, although there were some Next's and x86.i > > N > > Due to the fact that AT&T had restrictions on Unix sales, it was sold veryO > > cheaply to schools ($100?) at first.  I'd have to think this influenced itsg > > success. > >  > F > I think VMS is VERY affordable for Universities and Colleges.  Refer > to:n > 1 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvmsedu/index.htmln > D > I have worked at several educational institutes both in the US andH > internationally and this program was used extensively.  The problem is> > not that it is not being used there.  The problem is that itH > integrates so well into the MS Windows environment that people may not= > realize that it is actually running the back-end of all thee
 > processing." >  > PT.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 02:48:51 -0000$, From: rdd@rhiannon.rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Subject: Re: OpenVMS Feelings 0 Message-ID: <1047tgji159n734@corp.supernews.com>  = In article <8a646952.0402162356.209bd069@posting.google.com>,j: 	jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) writes:  @ > VMS lost the battle to Unix and other OS when it abandoned theH > Universities. This is where the battles of the future are won or lost.G > Today's clients were yesterday students and faculty each basing therewG > standards on what they know and the Universities teach UNIX and others  I That's just what I was thinking (see my other posting). If the universityoG students using Linux and Micro$oft products aren't won over, all may beM lost.   H > OS and not VMS. The war isn't over. It is on-going. VMS isn't going toH > compete with Linux or Windows. They are too cheap. VMS will compete in  F Of course, there is the hobbyist licensing program, and a VAX emulatorD that runs under Linux and FreeBSD that they could use to learn about VMS on.s   -- lN Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: M All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & :O www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify sucheI 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.a   ------------------------------   Date: 02 Mar 2004 06:17:42 GMT& From: jealousxmp@aol.com (jealous xmp) Subject: Re: OpenVMS Feelingsu: Message-ID: <20040302011742.02207.00000730@mb-m19.aol.com>  J >That's just what I was thinking (see my other posting). If the universityH >students using Linux and Micro$oft products aren't won over, all may be >lost. l  G There may be some truth to that.  Although I had seen a VMS system as asN teenager, i didn't really use a vms shell until after college.  My college wasM almost exclusively Macs and Solaris, although there were some Next's and x86.n  J Due to the fact that AT&T had restrictions on Unix sales, it was sold veryK cheaply to schools ($100?) at first.  I'd have to think this influenced itso success.  I >> OS and not VMS. The war isn't over. It is on-going. VMS isn't going toaI >> compete with Linux or Windows. They are too cheap. VMS will compete inw > G >Of course, there is the hobbyist licensing program, and a VAX emulatorrE >that runs under Linux and FreeBSD that they could use to learn abouts >VMS on.  K Very true.  The entry price for VMS on Vax, is simply the few bucks for theoL hobbyist license, and a decent x86 or other architecture for the emu.  VaxenO are now next to nothing, and decent Alphas at $100.  If you actually get proper-= licensing, the entry price for VMS is lower than AIX or Irix.o  H One thing that I once thought is that the lack of x86 (IA32) support wasN killing the hobbyist use.  If that were true though, you'd think someone wouldM have made a VMS clone by now.  AFAIK, PC VMS and FreeVMS are some of the onlysK attempts.  I don't know that PC VMS ever developed a following, and FreeVMSu/ only has a single developer (most of the time).h   MichaelE   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 01:01:36 +0100d+ From: Thomas Schick <schick.thomas@gmx.net>e% Subject: Re: OpenVMS Quote of the dayC/ Message-ID: <c23754$7ke$02$1@news.t-online.com>    Fabio Cardoso wrote:  & > I listened from one of the managers: > U > " - OpenVMS is obsolete, there is no future and all stuff you work is "garbage" ! "c > D I guess most of such statement are based on rumors and facts from a F couple of years ago. Improvements, roadmaps and other performances in F OpenVMS are hardly ignored. The bad impression from some of digitals ! acts are still up in their minds. 8 Have a look at an earlier (Oct 1997) post in comp.os.vms   http://groups.google.de/groups?q=dissatisfied+AND+salespeople+++group:comp.os.vms&hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&newwindow=1&group=comp.os.vms&selm=0033000000444486000002L062*%40MHS&rnum=1   [...]uB    In one case, Groupe Michelin, the French tire maker, wanted $40H   million to $50 million of new equipment last year but was dissatisfiedB   with the attention it was getting from Digital salespeople, saysH   Robert Burnley, a member of the Michelin Purchasing team.  Mr. BurnleyD   says Michelin couldn't get an appointment with Mr. Palmer until it?   threatened to go elsewhere, and even then, the meeting was in F   Massachusetts instead of France, where Michelin wanted it.  MichelinE   executives left the meeting, which was last December, disappointed, H   Mr. Burnley says, adding that Michelin has decided to give most of its!   business to Hewlett-Packard Co.  [...]r  7 However the last sentence was caught up by the reality.n     Thomas   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 00:15:28 +0000 (UTC)6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)% Subject: Re: OpenVMS Quote of the day.1 Message-ID: <newscache$tj4zth$bjl1$1@news.sil.at>g  m In article <5ee1d1b7.0403020758.2a393313@posting.google.com>, phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) writes: t >fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) wrote in message news:<f30679fb.0403020216.6d48bb87@posting.google.com>...' >> I listened from one of the managers:  >>  V >> " - OpenVMS is obsolete, there is no future and all stuff you work is "garbage" ! " >2 >Wow! That's pretty strong.d  + No. That is quite common (in my experience)f  H >                              Maybe you whould sign this guy up for theD >VMS Success Stories Monthly Mailing List so he can see exactly what >openVMS is doing successfully.   6 This is a reason for getting a pink slip. Don't do it.  , >(That mailing list does exist, doesn't it?)   Sure. But who knows it.v   -- v Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERt% Network and OpenVMS system specialiste E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 01:35:29 GMTb# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>n% Subject: Re: OpenVMS Quote of the day J Message-ID: <BDa1c.71938$ah.47757@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Thomas Schick wrote: > Fabio Cardoso wrote: >t' >> I listened from one of the managers:  >>E >> " - OpenVMS is obsolete, there is no future and all stuff you work  >> is "garbage" ! "  >>E > I guess most of such statement are based on rumors and facts from alG > couple of years ago. Improvements, roadmaps and other performances ineG > OpenVMS are hardly ignored. The bad impression from some of digitalsl# > acts are still up in their minds. : > Have a look at an earlier (Oct 1997) post in comp.os.vms >d >cL http://groups.google.de/groups?q=dissatisfied+AND+salespeople+++group:comp.oL s.vms&hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&newwindow=1&group=comp.os.vms&selm=0033000000444486 000002L062*%40MHS&rnum=1 >t > [...]pD >    In one case, Groupe Michelin, the French tire maker, wanted $40= >   million to $50 million of new equipment last year but wasa? >   dissatisfied with the attention it was getting from Digital > >   salespeople, says Robert Burnley, a member of the Michelin? >   Purchasing team.  Mr. Burnley says Michelin couldn't get aneD >   appointment with Mr. Palmer until it threatened to go elsewhere,F >   and even then, the meeting was in Massachusetts instead of France,D >   where Michelin wanted it.  Michelin executives left the meeting,C >   which was last December, disappointed, Mr. Burnley says, adding = >   that Michelin has decided to give most of its business to  > Hewlett-Packard Co. [...]> >>9 > However the last sentence was caught up by the reality.     I And the second post in that same thread catches the same refrain we stillr experience today:w  L http://groups.google.de/groups?hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&newwindow=1&threadm=003300L 0000444486000002L062*%40MHS&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Ddissatisfied%2BAND%2BsL alespeople%2B%2B%2Bgroup:comp.os.vms%26hl%3Dde%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26newwinL dow%3D1%26group%3Dcomp.os.vms%26selm%3D0033000000444486000002L062*%2540MHS%2	 6rnum%3D1   H "If IBM, Sun, and HP had all conspired to infiltrate Digital's marketingD group with the best corporate sabotoge team they could put together,F they couldn't possibly have hurt the company as badly as Digital's ownF marketing people.  And Mr. Palmer thinks Alpha failed because Intel is3 now using some technology that Alpha had years ago?e  $ Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab"   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:26:10 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>o% Subject: RE: OpenVMS Quote of the day 9 Message-ID: <IPEGKJECKHGHJKIDHKKMKELPCHAA.tom@kednos.com>'  / Guess which French Tire manufacturer uses PL/I?    -----Original Message-----( From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]% Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 5:35 PMw To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come% Subject: Re: OpenVMS Quote of the day      Thomas Schick wrote: > Fabio Cardoso wrote: >t' >> I listened from one of the managers:i >>E >> " - OpenVMS is obsolete, there is no future and all stuff you workb >> is "garbage" ! "n >>E > I guess most of such statement are based on rumors and facts from a4G > couple of years ago. Improvements, roadmaps and other performances in"G > OpenVMS are hardly ignored. The bad impression from some of digitalst# > acts are still up in their minds.s: > Have a look at an earlier (Oct 1997) post in comp.os.vms >  >rL http://groups.google.de/groups?q=dissatisfied+AND+salespeople+++group:comp.oL s.vms&hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&newwindow=1&group=comp.os.vms&selm=0033000000444486 000002L062*%40MHS&rnum=1 >i > [...]uD >    In one case, Groupe Michelin, the French tire maker, wanted $40= >   million to $50 million of new equipment last year but was ? >   dissatisfied with the attention it was getting from Digitale> >   salespeople, says Robert Burnley, a member of the Michelin? >   Purchasing team.  Mr. Burnley says Michelin couldn't get antD >   appointment with Mr. Palmer until it threatened to go elsewhere,F >   and even then, the meeting was in Massachusetts instead of France,D >   where Michelin wanted it.  Michelin executives left the meeting,C >   which was last December, disappointed, Mr. Burnley says, addingp= >   that Michelin has decided to give most of its business toa > Hewlett-Packard Co. [...]- >-9 > However the last sentence was caught up by the reality.b    I And the second post in that same thread catches the same refrain we still- experience today:4  L http://groups.google.de/groups?hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&newwindow=1&threadm=003300L 0000444486000002L062*%40MHS&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Ddissatisfied%2BAND%2BsL alespeople%2B%2B%2Bgroup:comp.os.vms%26hl%3Dde%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26newwinL dow%3D1%26group%3Dcomp.os.vms%26selm%3D0033000000444486000002L062*%2540MHS%2	 6rnum%3D1   H "If IBM, Sun, and HP had all conspired to infiltrate Digital's marketingD group with the best corporate sabotoge team they could put together,F they couldn't possibly have hurt the company as badly as Digital's ownF marketing people.  And Mr. Palmer thinks Alpha failed because Intel is3 now using some technology that Alpha had years ago?m  $ Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab"   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:27:51 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> % Subject: Re: OpenVMS Quote of the dayd< Message-ID: <bC21c.179327$Po1.95110@twister.tampabay.rr.com>  I This is pretty much the same thing I have been hearing since around 1990.lF But this type of drivel actually seems to be receding somewhat lately.  ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messagee7 news:f30679fb.0403020216.6d48bb87@posting.google.com... & > I listened from one of the managers: >AG > " - OpenVMS is obsolete, there is no future and all stuff you work is,
 "garbage" ! "i >eE > Really its becoming complicated to explain here that OpenVMS has a-G > future under HP. Because the Data Center is full of Sun Servers -SAP.1C > I dont have conditions to market  about OpenVMS for them because  > THEY DONT WANT TO LISTEN ! > H > I think its time to "quit". I am just waiting the OpenVMS for Itanium" > to see what I can gain  from it. >-	 > Regards  >a > FC >s   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:11:24 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>f% Subject: Re: OpenVMS Quote of the day J Message-ID: <0f31c.67081$ah.53104@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   John N. wrote:E > This is pretty much the same thing I have been hearing since aroundeF > 1990. But this type of drivel actually seems to be receding somewhat	 > lately.E  J Only because the absolute numbers of customer defections from VMS is going$ down as the customer base decreases.  A All it takes is one guy with a 'mission' at a VMS shop (CTO, CIO,uH whatever...) to say 'VMS is outta here' and Bob's your uncle...an ex-VMS shop.e  L As long as HP doesn't make VMS visible, guys on a 'mission' have very littleF standing in their way that the non-technical BOD can point to and say,L "That's not what HP says"....or "I saw something about how VMS does disasterL recovery better than anything else, so tell me again why you want to get rid of VMS from our company?"e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 03:05:07 GMTl# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>i% Subject: Re: OpenVMS Quote of the dayuI Message-ID: <DXb1c.104625$Qg7.65357@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   J And the state of the IA64/VMS port of PL/1?, he asked, wondering if HP hasH stepped up to the plate to the tune of a few hundred thousand dollars toG save an account worth millions in annual revenues and more than that inh potential loss of trust.         Tom Linden wrote:91 > Guess which French Tire manufacturer uses PL/I?i >  > -----Original Message-----* > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]' > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 5:35 PMt > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ' > Subject: Re: OpenVMS Quote of the day4 >  >M > Thomas Schick wrote: >> Fabio Cardoso wrote:  >>( >>> I listened from one of the managers: >>>gF >>> " - OpenVMS is obsolete, there is no future and all stuff you work >>> is "garbage" ! " >>>4F >> I guess most of such statement are based on rumors and facts from aH >> couple of years ago. Improvements, roadmaps and other performances inH >> OpenVMS are hardly ignored. The bad impression from some of digital's$ >> acts are still up in their minds.; >> Have a look at an earlier (Oct 1997) post in comp.os.vmse >> >> >hL http://groups.google.de/groups?q=dissatisfied+AND+salespeople+++group:comp.o >-L s.vms&hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&newwindow=1&group=comp.os.vms&selm=0033000000444486 > 000002L062*%40MHS&rnum=1 >> >> [...]E >>    In one case, Groupe Michelin, the French tire maker, wanted $40>> >>   million to $50 million of new equipment last year but was@ >>   dissatisfied with the attention it was getting from Digital? >>   salespeople, says Robert Burnley, a member of the Michelint@ >>   Purchasing team.  Mr. Burnley says Michelin couldn't get anE >>   appointment with Mr. Palmer until it threatened to go elsewhere,dG >>   and even then, the meeting was in Massachusetts instead of France, E >>   where Michelin wanted it.  Michelin executives left the meeting,lD >>   which was last December, disappointed, Mr. Burnley says, adding> >>   that Michelin has decided to give most of its business to >> Hewlett-Packard Co. [...] >>: >> However the last sentence was caught up by the reality. >I >rE > And the second post in that same thread catches the same refrain we  > still experience today:u >o >gL http://groups.google.de/groups?hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&newwindow=1&threadm=003300 >1L 0000444486000002L062*%40MHS&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Ddissatisfied%2BAND%2Bs > L alespeople%2B%2B%2Bgroup:comp.os.vms%26hl%3Dde%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26newwin >PL dow%3D1%26group%3Dcomp.os.vms%26selm%3D0033000000444486000002L062*%2540MHS%2 > 6rnum%3D1l >n@ > "If IBM, Sun, and HP had all conspired to infiltrate Digital'sF > marketing group with the best corporate sabotoge team they could putD > together, they couldn't possibly have hurt the company as badly asE > Digital's own marketing people.  And Mr. Palmer thinks Alpha failedsF > because Intel is now using some technology that Alpha had years ago? > & > Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab"   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:52:46 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org  Subject: Re: Power Button on PWS) Message-ID: <04030216524601@antinode.org>t  H    Seeing nothing obvious in the SRM console settings, I checked the ARM' console, where I found nothing obvious./  G    A bit of research suggests that the PS_ON# input to the power supply E is driven by a Q-bar output from the '74 dual D-flip-flop (E9) in theaG corner of the riser card near the big cluster of analog stuff.  I can'toH quite work up the ambition to trace out all the connections of this muchG stuff on a multi-layer board, but a fairly careful examination revealedg no suspicious jumpers.  H    The crude work-around is to yank the green wire (pin 14) to the powerE supply, and ground it.  This would completely bypass all the controlsh@ (such as the front-panel power button).  I believe that I have aF three-chip solution which would preserve all the normal functions, butE which would (optionally) switch on the power shortly after +5VSB cameA) up, but I haven't actually built one yet.8  H    It would be much more satisfying to do it the right/easy way.  AnyoneH with actual clues (including a diagram of the riser card) is, of course, still welcome to contribute.  @    Maybe you need to tie pins 8 and 9 together on the Comm port.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-orge    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:57:42 +0100.9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> % Subject: Re: PWS 433au disk problems. ' Message-ID: <4044E736.E274338C@aaa.com>    William Webb wrote:d >  > 1 > Which connector is the SCSI cable connected to?)6 > The one that faces front or the one that faces left? > (if you're facing the unit)r > 2 > You're supposed to be using the one on the left.   Which is the used one.  = > Also, check your switch settings on the personality module.-   All down (off).   @ > I'm pretty sure I've posted them to the newsgroup in the past,0 > so a Google groups search should turn them up.  B Sorry, tried but Google didn't come up with anything reasonable...  F > Slotwise, the split bus isn't 1-2-3 and 4-5-6. It's 1-3-5 and 2-4-6.; > (or 0-1-3 2-4-6 if you want to start counting with zero.)s  9 I'm fairly sure that it's 0-6 from the top to the bottom.i4 I checked by moving a single disk through the shelf.  G > What is the SCSI address of your host adapter, and what are its other # > settings? (e.g. auto-termination)o  3 7 and "on" if it's the "pka0_soft_term" parameter ?a  ( > I assume your CD drive is a DQ device?   Yes.  F > Brings to mind a co-worker who was perplexed at his system's failureH > to boot (because he forgot his internal disk at address 0 and his SCSIG > CD-ROM at address 4 when attaching a fully loaded BA356 to his systema- > ON THE SAME BUS, but that's another story.)1  > Internal SCSI connectors on the interface are un-connected, so. there should not be any SCSI address conflict.  	 Jan-Erik.i   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 13:06:55 -0800a. From: al5vf03p02@sneakemail.com (William Webb)% Subject: Re: PWS 433au disk problems.o= Message-ID: <d5ce4b06.0403021306.5d0e7ecb@posting.google.com>w  U Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message news:<40443DC7.721176E0@aaa.com>...p
 > Thanks ! > " > You mean the 8-pole DIP switch ? > All switches ?& > Range ? Is that SCSI address range ?D > And also, any pointer to some docs for this "personality module" ? >  > Jan-Erik.r >  > Tom Linden wrote:i > > ? > > You might try throwing the switch on the BA356 interface to  > > put it into the upper ranger > >  > > -----Original Message-----1 > > From: Jan-Erik Sderholm [mailto:aaa@aaa.com]l( > > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 3:06 PM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi% > > Subject: PWS 433au disk problems.b > >  > > Hi all PWS-lovers !h > > ? > > I have some troubles with my rather new (for me) PWS 433au.l > > > > > I have one SCSI card (standard ISP 1040 type) with nothing: > > connected internaly and one BA356 box with a couple of1 > > 9Gb disks (mostly RZ1CB-CS and one RZ1CF-CF).d > > ? > > Now, with a single disk (DKA0) in the BA356, I can boot VMSa > > (7.3-1). > > 8 > > If I mount more disks in the box, I get all sorts of6 > > troubles. >>>SHO DEV looks OK sometimes, sometimes8 > > I get devices like DKA200, DKA201, DKA202, sometimes > > it just re-inits itself. > > 8 > > If I boot VMS with only DKA0 in the box, I can later= > > push in the rest of the disks, run MC SYSMAN IO AUTO, andc9 > > they are all playing. After re-run of rellevent parts'1 > > of the systartup, everything works just fine.v > > @ > > But if I now run a SHUTDOWN, I can't reboot anymore (without$ > > pulling out all disks but DKA0). > > G > > I have changed the SCSI cable from 3m to 2m (BN21K-03 to BN21K-02).uC > > I have also replaced the "personality module", the one with onehE > > connector in the front and one on the inside with another (same).  > > J > > I have checked the whole box for any bent pins in the disk connectors. > > The same with all cables.o > > > > > As far as I understand you don not *have* to have anythingA > > connected on the internal conectors on the SCSI card, right ?  > > : > > What about the connectors under the fans on the back ?: > > There is one connector (terminator ?) connected at theA > > connector at the "bottom" (SCSI cable comes in at the "top").nE > > And there is one empty connector near the top. Note, we are stillm, > > at the back of the BA356 under the fans. > >  > > Any thoughts ? > >  > > Best Regards > > Jan-Erik Sderholm.o    
 Jan-Erik,   ; I've seen that 201,202 stuff before and I think we all know + that means something's funny with the SCSI.k  C Send me your email address at FirstName.LastName@juno.com, as thereo6 are some things I need to look at at home on my PW433.  . Which PCI slot is your SCSI card plugged into?  + Try using another slot besides the top one.i  H (I've seen RAID array controllers that didn't like the top slot at all.)  P Here's a link to my post concerning the personality module (watch for URL wrap!)  T http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=0033000047177618000002L082*%40MHS&output=gplain   Wait a minute.   RZ1CB-CS and RZ1CF-CF?  3 Are you trying to run blue drives in a green shelf?t  . That might explain why you're having problems.  J I've got to see if I can find the StorageWorks drive compatibility matrix.   Later.   William Webb   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:54:47 +0100s9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>a% Subject: Re: PWS 433au disk problems.P' Message-ID: <40443DC7.721176E0@aaa.com>    Thanks !    You mean the 8-pole DIP switch ? All switches ?$ Range ? Is that SCSI address range ?B And also, any pointer to some docs for this "personality module" ?  	 Jan-Erik..   Tom Linden wrote:i > = > You might try throwing the switch on the BA356 interface to: > put it into the upper rangee >  > -----Original Message-----/ > From: Jan-Erik Sderholm [mailto:aaa@aaa.com] & > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 3:06 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma# > Subject: PWS 433au disk problems.l >  > Hi all PWS-lovers !  > = > I have some troubles with my rather new (for me) PWS 433au.t > < > I have one SCSI card (standard ISP 1040 type) with nothing8 > connected internaly and one BA356 box with a couple of/ > 9Gb disks (mostly RZ1CB-CS and one RZ1CF-CF).e > = > Now, with a single disk (DKA0) in the BA356, I can boot VMSh
 > (7.3-1). > 6 > If I mount more disks in the box, I get all sorts of4 > troubles. >>>SHO DEV looks OK sometimes, sometimes6 > I get devices like DKA200, DKA201, DKA202, sometimes > it just re-inits itself. > 6 > If I boot VMS with only DKA0 in the box, I can later; > push in the rest of the disks, run MC SYSMAN IO AUTO, and 7 > they are all playing. After re-run of rellevent partsa/ > of the systartup, everything works just fine.  > > > But if I now run a SHUTDOWN, I can't reboot anymore (without" > pulling out all disks but DKA0). > E > I have changed the SCSI cable from 3m to 2m (BN21K-03 to BN21K-02).nA > I have also replaced the "personality module", the one with onedC > connector in the front and one on the inside with another (same).u > H > I have checked the whole box for any bent pins in the disk connectors. > The same with all cables.l > < > As far as I understand you don not *have* to have anything? > connected on the internal conectors on the SCSI card, right ?H > 8 > What about the connectors under the fans on the back ?8 > There is one connector (terminator ?) connected at the? > connector at the "bottom" (SCSI cable comes in at the "top").rC > And there is one empty connector near the top. Note, we are stilln* > at the back of the BA356 under the fans. >  > Any thoughts ? >  > Best Regards > Jan-Erik Sderholm.>   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:55:34 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>w% Subject: RE: PWS 433au disk problems.l9 Message-ID: <IPEGKJECKHGHJKIDHKKMKELLCHAA.tom@kednos.com>t  F I found the docs by googling on ba356.  Unfortunately I stored them onF a W2K systems, and... Anyway I think I found at Erik Dittman's site. IF am currently on Vacation (Palm Springs, sorry Fred)  otherwise I couldF just read off the DIP settings and it is a bit cumbersome at 128K.  InC the manual is a description of the interface board and the settingst     -----Original Message------ From: Jan-Erik Sderholm [mailto:aaa@aaa.com]e% Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 11:55 PM- To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComU% Subject: Re: PWS 433au disk problems.a     Thanks !    You mean the 8-pole DIP switch ? All switches ?$ Range ? Is that SCSI address range ?B And also, any pointer to some docs for this "personality module" ?  	 Jan-Erik.s   Tom Linden wrote:w >e= > You might try throwing the switch on the BA356 interface to  > put it into the upper rangee >  > -----Original Message-----/ > From: Jan-Erik Sderholm [mailto:aaa@aaa.com]a& > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 3:06 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com # > Subject: PWS 433au disk problems.  >  > Hi all PWS-lovers !  > = > I have some troubles with my rather new (for me) PWS 433au.a >b< > I have one SCSI card (standard ISP 1040 type) with nothing8 > connected internaly and one BA356 box with a couple of/ > 9Gb disks (mostly RZ1CB-CS and one RZ1CF-CF).n >s= > Now, with a single disk (DKA0) in the BA356, I can boot VMSe
 > (7.3-1). >>6 > If I mount more disks in the box, I get all sorts of4 > troubles. >>>SHO DEV looks OK sometimes, sometimes6 > I get devices like DKA200, DKA201, DKA202, sometimes > it just re-inits itself. >e6 > If I boot VMS with only DKA0 in the box, I can later; > push in the rest of the disks, run MC SYSMAN IO AUTO, and 7 > they are all playing. After re-run of rellevent partst/ > of the systartup, everything works just fine.> >>> > But if I now run a SHUTDOWN, I can't reboot anymore (without" > pulling out all disks but DKA0). >tE > I have changed the SCSI cable from 3m to 2m (BN21K-03 to BN21K-02).lA > I have also replaced the "personality module", the one with onerC > connector in the front and one on the inside with another (same).s > H > I have checked the whole box for any bent pins in the disk connectors. > The same with all cables.  >a< > As far as I understand you don not *have* to have anything? > connected on the internal conectors on the SCSI card, right ?e >s8 > What about the connectors under the fans on the back ?8 > There is one connector (terminator ?) connected at the? > connector at the "bottom" (SCSI cable comes in at the "top").aC > And there is one empty connector near the top. Note, we are still * > at the back of the BA356 under the fans. >  > Any thoughts ? >b > Best Regards > Jan-Erik Sderholm.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 23:07:53 +0800t, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>% Subject: Re: PWS 433au disk problems.t- Message-ID: <873c8rl22e.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ( Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> writes:  F > I have one SCSI card (standard ISP 1040 type) with nothing connected@ > internaly and one BA356 box with a couple of 9Gb disks (mostly > RZ1CB-CS and one RZ1CF-CF)./  F > Now, with a single disk (DKA0) in the BA356, I can boot VMS (7.3-1).  6 > If I mount more disks in the box, I get all sorts ofB > troubles. >>>SHO DEV looks OK sometimes, sometimes I get devicesA > like DKA200, DKA201, DKA202, sometimes it just re-inits itself.i  A What is the ID of the controller? Looks looks like it is set to 2h and conflicting with the drive.c   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.a@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:49:51 +0100r9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>g% Subject: Re: PWS 433au disk problems.o' Message-ID: <4044E55F.A88EBD3A@aaa.com>a   Paul Repacholi wrote:n > * > Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> writes: > 8 > > If I mount more disks in the box, I get all sorts ofD > > troubles. >>>SHO DEV looks OK sometimes, sometimes I get devicesC > > like DKA200, DKA201, DKA202, sometimes it just re-inits itself.k > # > What is the ID of the controller?i   7   ! > Looks looks like it is set to 2o! > and conflicting with the drive.b  " Here is some extra info from SRM :  	 >>>sh devt  D dka0.0.0.1008.0            DKA0                       RZ1CB-CS  0844D dka100.1.0.1008.0          DKA100                     RZ1CB-CS  0844D dka200.2.0.1008.0          DKA200                     RZ1CB-CS  0844D dka300.3.0.1008.0          DKA300                     RZ1CF-CF  1614D dka600.6.0.1008.0          DKA600                     RZ1CB-CS  0844D dqa0.0.0.4.0               DQA0        TOSHIBA CD-ROM XM-6102B  1106> dva0.0.0.0.1               DVA0                               > ewa0.0.0.3.0               EWA0              00-00-F8-75-4B-CAD pka0.7.0.1008.0            PKA0                  SCSI Bus ID 7  5.57> pqa0.0.0.4.0               PQA0                       PCI EIDE> pqb0.0.1.4.0               PQB0                       PCI EIDE    >>>b  (DKA0 is default boot dev)   (boot dka0.0.0.1008.0)0 block 0 of dka0.0.0.1008.0 is a valid boot block' reading 969 blocks from dka0.0.0.1008.0r bootstrap code read in3 base = 1d8000, image_start = 0, image_bytes = 79200  initializing HWRPB at 2000! initializing page table at 1ca000  initializing machine state# setting affinity to the primary CPU: jumping to bootstrap code,  D (Here the shelf hangs with the green LED on DKA0 lit for 20-30 secs)  & failed to send Read to dka0.0.0.1008.0F %APB-I-LOADFAIL, Failed to load secondary bootstrap, status = 00000054   halted CPU 0  
 halt code = 53 HALT instruction executedT PC = 20003cd0        h warning -- HWRPB is invalid.  1 [re-init of system, with the same disk config...]r  : >>>b dka200  (DKA200 is part of a shadowed system disk...)   (boot dka200.2.0.1008.0)2 block 0 of dka200.2.0.1008.0 is a valid boot block) reading 969 blocks from dka200.2.0.1008.0l bootstrap code read in3 base = 1d8000, image_start = 0, image_bytes = 79200i initializing HWRPB at 2000! initializing page table at 1ca000t initializing machine state# setting affinity to the primary CPUy jumping to bootstrap code1    9     OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.3-1  c  8 So, DKA200 booted with no hardware changes (and formed a= mirror set with DKA0 without any problems !), and it has been.7 running for aprox 12 h now. Note that there is no majorl2 problems as soon as VMS has booted, just from >>>.  0 Well, maybe I'll try to replace the DKA0 disk !?  	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 22:29:05 +0100s9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>t% Subject: Re: PWS 433au disk problems. ' Message-ID: <4044FCA1.5295D902@aaa.com>    > Jan-Erik,- > = > I've seen that 201,202 stuff before and I think we all know0- > that means something's funny with the SCSI.) > E > Send me your email address at FirstName.LastName@juno.com, as therew8 > are some things I need to look at at home on my PW433.   Done...>   > 0 > Which PCI slot is your SCSI card plugged into?  , First (closest to the internal drive shelf).   > - > Try using another slot besides the top one.h  8 I'll try that. I just left it where it was mounted since before when I got the PWS.   > J > (I've seen RAID array controllers that didn't like the top slot at all.) > R > Here's a link to my post concerning the personality module (watch for URL wrap!) > V > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=0033000047177618000002L082*%40MHS&output=gplain  - Found it, nothing realy spectacular there :-)i   >  > Wait a minute. >  > RZ1CB-CS and RZ1CF-CF? > 5 > Are you trying to run blue drives in a green shelf?u  7 The shelf is grey, but *should* be an BA356 (wide) box.l SWXSS-22 is the name.i   Many thanks for your time !   	 Jan-Erik.a   > 0 > That might explain why you're having problems. > L > I've got to see if I can find the StorageWorks drive compatibility matrix. >  > Later. >  > William Webb   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 22:34:16 GMTm# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e( Subject: Re: Support of USB Memory stickJ Message-ID: <IZ71c.69107$ah.63290@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:$ > Do you have a requirement for one? >SG > We have some code, but it isn't shipping or supported.  By letting us E > know that there are real customer requirements, we can determine ifi5 > it is worth qualifying the logic and supporting it.     F There are a number of good and possible uses for a USB stick under VMS  $ Biometric token (fingerprint reader) Removable encrypted data store RAM disk Licensing tokenc   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 16:54:40 -0600s- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)&( Subject: Re: Support of USB Memory stick3 Message-ID: <30CWPJJF8Y+g@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  p In article <IZ71c.69107$ah.63290@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:% >> Do you have a requirement for one?i >>H >> We have some code, but it isn't shipping or supported.  By letting usF >> know that there are real customer requirements, we can determine if6 >> it is worth qualifying the logic and supporting it. >  > H > There are a number of good and possible uses for a USB stick under VMS > & > Biometric token (fingerprint reader)  : There are better USB devices for that than a memory stick.C In fact, I can't think of any manner in which a memory stick helps.n    > Removable encrypted data store  > Encrypted would seem to have little to do with it, making this the same as your next point.  
 > RAM disk  L Yes, memory sticks can be used as memory sticks.  Apparently VMS DevelopmentF has not heard from any customers with a real application in this area.   > Licensing token   G Huh ?   The essence of memory sticks is that they can be replicated !!!-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:54:06 GMTr9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>e( Subject: Re: Support of USB Memory stick- Message-ID: <2o71c.47$GG1.7@news.cpqcorp.net>   " Do you have a requirement for one?  J We have some code, but it isn't shipping or supported.  By letting us knowJ that there are real customer requirements, we can determine if it is worth' qualifying the logic and supporting it.g  3 "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote in messagep- news:000901c3fd23$255891b0$994614ac@wat153...o > Hello, >iB > Is there some support for USB memory sticks under OpenVMS 7.3-1? >O > Best regards Rudolf Wingert  >p   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 00:12:57 +0000 (UTC)6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)# Subject: Re: TCPIP printer via ISDN 1 Message-ID: <newscache$rf4zth$0hl1$1@news.sil.at>c  l In article <f105e02e.0403020130.5dec0c7d@posting.google.com>, pietdisp-deja@yahoo.com (Piet Timmers) writes:2 >We have tcpip printers connected via ISDN lines. E >These lines are only active, and we have to pay for them, when thererB >is a need to connect to the printer. The problem is that when theF >printerqueue is stalled, a polling is executed, which causes the isdnG >line to be active, so we have to pay for it. This can be the situation E >for several hours, for example when in the evening the printers runs G >out of paper, the queue is stalled until the next morning, and we have  >to pay for the isdn line. >oF >Is there a way to solve this problem, or to make it less expensive. I@ >can imagine that a stalled queue has to poll the printer to seeE >whether it is available again, but mayby there is way to change thisGF >polling to once an hour, this will reduce our isdn cost dramatically. >4 >Thanks for every help.   3 Why not STOP/RESET this stalled queues over night ?l   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER(% Network and OpenVMS system specialisto E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:32:33 -0500< From: "CarlC Internet Services" <cc@nospamming-to-carlc.com>6 Subject: Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas1 Message-ID: <nj51c.128$Ag7.45456@news.uswest.net>   G > 2. Buy some other product, like Cyberpower 1500AVR, that has a serialy  G > interface and figure out how to interface. I don't think they provide    > VMS support.   >g  H > But, I am not sure how to write a VMS shutdown procedure that will run  H > automatically. You can't just put a job on the queue because the queue  C > gets shutdown by SHUTDOWN. The only way I know to do it is to logV  F > onto the console and run a procedure interactively that monitors the  C > power and shuts down as required. But that is a hassle. Perhaps IJ   > could use a detached process.c   >:  H > Anybody know how roll you own procedure to shutdown VMS before the UPS  B > shuts down, assuming you have a way to detect the power failure?  D If you look at those so called "Serial" 9 pin plugs, what is usually happening is  F they are connected to a relay behind the scenes... The relay is either	 "Normally    Open" or "Normally Closed".o  L If you can find a schematic to the UPS, you may find that its between pins 2  ? and 3. Now, here's where RS232 (terminal) communications helps:o  G If the UPS when happy, it may have the relay in "Normally Closed". Thist  B means if you were to connect RS232 TX wire to Pin 2 and RX wire to  G Pin 3, what ever characters you send down the line will be echoed back.&  A When the UPS gets unhappy (like no power coming in, out of range,0  F on battery), the relay will go to Open, meaning you don't get back any   echo on the line.d  @ A simple DCL program, running every few minutes checking that TX  K port would find that "If I get an echo, everything is fine.... no echo, runo  A shutdown now as were on battery!". You could set this up via a LTa  E (lats terminal session). I've done this for both Power and Temp usingP  D a special relay for temperature. If the computer room gets to hot, I  A get a page and if it stays that way over 30 minutes, OpenVMS does     a shutdown per the command file.   Enjoy!   Carl  @ http://www.carlc.com One of the FEW OpenVMS webhosting companies   still around and doing well.     --   ==================== http://www.carlc.com/>  =       "Price, Performance, Quality. Choose any two you like."    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:49:16 +0000 (UTC)7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)=6 Subject: Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas( Message-ID: <c22ofs$j7p$1@pcls4.std.com>  ' tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) writes:c    G >But, I am not sure how to write a VMS shutdown procedure that will run.I >automatically.   You can't just put a job on the queue because the queueSC >gets shutdown by SHUTDOWN.  The only way I know to do it is to log K >onto the console and run a procedure interactively that monitors the power D >and shuts down as required.  But that is a hassle.  Perhaps I could >use a detached process.  * Yes.  Have a program do the equivalent of:L $ RUN /DETATCHED/INPUT=SHUTDOWN1.COM/OUTPUT=SHUTDOWN.LOG SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUTG (or NL: instead of SHUTDOWN.LOG) where SHUTDOWN1.COM invokes the 'real'8$ shutdown.com with proper parameters.   -- j -Mike:   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:57:29 GMT@& From: hoffman@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)6 Subject: Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas- Message-ID: <dr71c.49$ev1.1@news.cpqcorp.net>   e In article <ea44f5a1.0402270927.132a695b@posting.google.com>, tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) writes: 	 :We have:c ..G :And, our management decided to drop hardware maintenance a while back.i  ,   That's another matter entirely, of course.  G :I want to propose to my management that we get UPSes for all of these.u :sI :We don't need UPS for uptime, since all these system control other stuffoI :that goes down when the power fails.  But I think UPSes would reduce our I :hardware repair and replacement costs, and would reduced the likelihood n? :that a system would become flakey and start failing during use   B   I use a UPS on a local AlphaStation running where the power grid>   is less than reliable.  It works nicely, of course.  The UPS?   is a moderately-sized system, as the smaller unit previously .9   in use provided barely enough to finish the shutdown.  r  C   Check the wattage -- the listed ratings are prefered and are most @   appropriate for sizing the UPS, but I know of folks that have >   measured the running current and the peak in-rush, and have >   utilized those values to size the UPS.  The latter approach ?   obviously has its risks, but can potentially allow a smaller  6   UPS -- never over-load the UPS in any case, however.  @   What you gain is more than just hardware reliability, you also?   avoid the problems that can arise when the power fails duringo@   a multiblock I/O operation -- it is possible for an incomplete>   I/O to be written out, otherwise.  (Disks do try to minimize>   this and various are designed to have enough power to finish   the block write in flight.)a  6   The FAQ has pointers to UPS-related fodder, as well.  ;   At a minimum, I'd look at a good quality surge protector.w    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq%N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 23:37:15 GMTa" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG6 Subject: Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas0 Message-ID: <00A2E40D.DB0968F9@SendSpamHere.ORG>  d In article <ea44f5a1.0403020909.f53aa5f@posting.google.com>, tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) writes:[ >"Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message news:<403F9472.5060401@MMaz.com>...  >> Tom Adams wrote:o >> . >> >We have: >> > >> >2 AlphaStations 400 4/233e >> >1 AlphaServer  800 5/333 >> >1 DS10 466 >> > >> >And we are getting:m >> >1 DS10 600 >> >J >> >And, our management decided to drop hardware maintenance a while back. >> >J >> >I want to propose to my management that we get UPSes for all of these. >> >L >> >We don't need UPS for uptime, since all these system control other stuffL >> >that goes down when the power fails.  But I think UPSes would reduce ourP >> >hardware repair and replacement costs, and would reduced the likelihood that> >> >a system would become flakey and start failing during use. >> >F >> >Is this justified?  Do you know of any info that would justify it? >> >M >> >Are there power conditioning solutions that are less expensive than UPSes  >> >that I should consider?t >> >   >> >I >> What is there to justify, you can acquire a 1500VA Cyberpower UPS for  L >> $200 which is most likely enough to handle all the above mentioned gear, I >> but even if you needed two because you wanted more run time, for $400 hL >> you will eliminate any headaches directly associated with bad power; Bad L >> power fries power supplies which can also turn around and do a number on I >> system components (presuming you have no power conditioning at all).  dG >> Surge suppressing power strips are a basic necessity for spikes and  H >> lightening on any piece of electronics, but the the power-cycling of J >> gear by brown-outs, black-outs, power sin wave formation, will shorten # >> the life-span of your equipment.  >> u >> . >> Barry >h >eH >I would need a way to do an orderly shutdown before the UPS shuts down.) >I see a number of approaches to do this:t >nH >1.  Buy APCC UPSes and get their PowerChute product, but this is pricer >than other options.   crap!t     >oG >2.  Buy some other product, like Cyberpower 1500AVR, that has a serial G >interface and figure out how to interface.  I don't think they provide,
 >VMS support.: >0C >3.  Detect the power outage independent of the UPS.  I can do thisoJ >because all my Alpha's are monitoring other hardware that will indirectly >indicate a power failuire.t >fG >But, I am not sure how to write a VMS shutdown procedure that will run I >automatically.   You can't just put a job on the queue because the queue C >gets shutdown by SHUTDOWN.  The only way I know to do it is to logoK >onto the console and run a procedure interactively that monitors the powerrD >and shuts down as required.  But that is a hassle.  Perhaps I could >use a detached process. >tG >Anybody know how roll you own procedure to shutdown VMS before the UPScA >shuts down, assuming you have a way to detect the power failure?>   http://www.tmesis.com/UPShot    H >And, in general, is it possible to interface to a non-APCC UPS in order >to schedule a system shutdown?o  
 perhaps...   --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.h -- rK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMd            a5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:40:07 +0100/7 From: Robert Trawinski <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl> ) Subject: UNIX signals and threads problemc/ Message-ID: <c226c7$pcq$1@bozon2.softax.com.pl>0   Hi all,   L We've got problem with handling UNIX signals. Here is small example program:  B /*    CHAP_4_SUSPEND_RESUME.C                                   */  B /* This program shows how to alternately suspend and resume a   */B /* program using the signal, alarm, and pause functions.        */   #define SECONDS 5B   #include <stdio.h> #include <signal.h>a #include <pthread.h> #include <sys/socket.h>t #include <sys/types.h> #include <netinet/in.h>  #include <unistd.h>i #include <stdlib.h>> #include <string.h>t #include <pthread.h>     pthread_mutex_t mutexHandle;   void crtlC_action(int x);i   main() {n)      pthread_mutex_init(&mutexHandle, 0);c  "      signal(SIGINT, crtlC_action);#      signal(SIGTERM, crtlC_action);H          struct timeval t={10,0}; /      int sock =socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0);       struct sockaddr_in addr; $      memset(&addr, 0, sizeof(addr));      addr.sin_family = AF_INET;g.      addr.sin_addr.s_addr = htonl(INADDR_ANY);!      addr.sin_port = htons(8888);28      bind(sock, (struct sockaddr*) &addr, sizeof(addr));      listen(sock, 5);g(      printf("waiting for connection\n");      fd_set s;      FD_ZERO(&s);%      FD_SET(sock, &s);      printf("select\n");      while (1)      {9          printf("res=%d\n",select(sock+1, &s, 0, 0, &t));e      } }      void crtlC_action(int x) {o       printf("crtlC_action\n\n"); }   H When we enable upcalls threads CtrlC key finish execution with dump (no  crtlC_action is invoked). Why?H Our configuration: OpenVMS 7.3.1, ACRTL 3.0, CXX 6.5-039, TCPIP 5.3-182.   Thanks for help    Robert      ; %CMA-F-EXCCOP, exception raised; VMS condition code follows-4 -SYSTEM-F-CONTROLC, operation completed under CTRL/C/ %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followstK    image    module    routine             line      rel PC           abs PCb@                                              0 FFFFFFFF80435710  FFFFFFFF80435710@   PTHREAD$RTL                                0 000000000002CD30  000000007BCFED30@   PTHREAD$RTL                                0 00000000000512C4  000000007BD232C4@   PTHREAD$RTL                                0 000000000005208C  000000007BD2408C@   PTHREAD$RTL                                0 00000000000279E0  000000007BCF99E0@   PTHREAD$RTL                                0 0000000000027680  000000007BCF9680@   PTHREAD$RTL                                0 000000000005295C  000000007BD2495C@                                              0 FFFFFFFF8014ED14  FFFFFFFF8014ED14@                                              0 FFFFFFFF80149500  FFFFFFFF80149500@   TCPIP$IPC_SHR                              0 0000000000005A98  00000000000E9A98@                                              0 FFFFFFFF805CFA10  FFFFFFFF805CFA10@   SIG  SIG  main                         14124 0000000000000284  0000000000030284@   SIG  SIG  __MAIN                           0 0000000000000070  0000000000030070@   SIG                                        0 0000000000023B0C  0000000000033B0C@   PTHREAD$RTL                                0 000000000003F0D0  000000007BD110D0@   PTHREAD$RTL                                0 000000000001C31C  000000007BCEE31C@                                              0 FFFFFFFF802794D4  FFFFFFFF802794D4   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 22:53:34 GMT:, From: Paul <Paul-Dot-Mosteika@MyCompany.COM>@ Subject: V1.8 Mime for OpenVMS is Current, Please Resend Message- Message-ID: <4044C8D8.7F9DBAAC@MyCompany.COM>    Hi,   F First, MIME Version: V1.4 is very old. We are currently at V1.8. There8 have been many bug fixes since V1.4 of Mime for OpenVMS.  F Second, MIME was written to accept a filename when invoked to open theG file for read access, decoding it to get it ready for viewing. (Note...hF open source code, and to accept message partial(s).) But this has longF been a source of confusion. And, since MIME gets an error decoding theF file, it handles the error and screen control. MIME uses standard SMG$B calls for the display. I would suggest using SET TERMINAL/INQUIRE.  F Third, yes I understand quoted-printable encoding. But the message youG sent to me using the HP Exchange server and MS Outlook (2002) failed toeE decode/display the message properly. And furthermore, when I tried tooF forward that message to OpenVMS mail, (where I requested that you send@ the message), MS Outlook QP encoded some of the message headers.E Consequently I cannot use that version of your message. Please resendbG the message to the EVMS address that I mentioned in mail (using VMS and H SMTP). This should allow the message to be received hopefully untouched.    
 			Thank you,n   			Paul.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 19:06:25 GMTo( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?: Message-ID: <c22lvh$1ojme8$3@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  J In article <Xr01c.66052$ah.17182@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,& 	"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: >eF > And while Mark is loking into it, suggest that he allow the HobbyistI > licenses to be used by all educational institutions, K-12, colleges and?L > universities as long as they are used for instructional purposes. Seems toL > me that the Hobbyist licenses are less onerous and less expensive than the > Educational licenses.   D Already been suggested on a number of occaisions.  And rejected each and every time.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:17:42 GMTe0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?0 Message-ID: <q551c.443986$I06.4950157@attbi_s01>   John Smith wrote:    (snip)  F > And while Mark is loking into it, suggest that he allow the HobbyistI > licenses to be used by all educational institutions, K-12, colleges andOL > universities as long as they are used for instructional purposes. Seems toL > me that the Hobbyist licenses are less onerous and less expensive than the > Educational licenses.l  M > THis way an educational institution can get an Alpha for next to nothing oneN > eBay (or donated by one of us) and get free licenses to use to educate kids.  B Are used Alphas really cheaper than a comparable off-brand PC with" the previous generation processor?  . How about a new Athlon64, though not too fast?  F I believe I have seen both Opteron and Itanium chips in the $200 price2 range, I don't know the price for MoBo and memory.   -- glen    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:23:41 -0700c+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> 4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?' Message-ID: <4044DF3D.6010003@MMaz.com>*   glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:   > John Smith wrote:  >e > (snip) >SG >> And while Mark is loking into it, suggest that he allow the Hobbyist J >> licenses to be used by all educational institutions, K-12, colleges andE >> universities as long as they are used for instructional purposes.   >> Seems toeE >> me that the Hobbyist licenses are less onerous and less expensive e >> than thet >> Educational licenses. >h >?D >> THis way an educational institution can get an Alpha for next to 
 >> nothing on2B >> eBay (or donated by one of us) and get free licenses to use to  >> educate kids. >k > D > Are used Alphas really cheaper than a comparable off-brand PC with$ > the previous generation processor?  I Aren't all used alphas pretty much previous generation these days?  Also nB consider, that the Alpha can run native VMS, the PC can though it " accessible vma SimH or CHARON-VAX.   >l0 > How about a new Athlon64, though not too fast? >lH > I believe I have seen both Opteron and Itanium chips in the $200 price4 > range, I don't know the price for MoBo and memory.  G Can't say about the Itanics, you're way off on the Opterons unless you nH are referring to the slower, single-processor models but I'm working on C a Dual Opteron project and the Opteron 248's are about $1k each in .< box-sets with a fan, and the Tyan MB's are in the $400 tier.   Barryu   -- a  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        w   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:30:50 GMTs0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?0 Message-ID: <_961c.444381$I06.4951349@attbi_s01>   Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote:   > glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:  / (snip including educational licenses for Alpha)e  E >> Are used Alphas really cheaper than a comparable off-brand PC withc% >> the previous generation processor?a  K > Aren't all used alphas pretty much previous generation these days?  Also 3D > consider, that the Alpha can run native VMS, the PC can though it $ > accessible vma SimH or CHARON-VAX.  C Yes, I meant that the PC's would also be previous generation, which  is probably a few months ago.D  1 >> How about a new Athlon64, though not too fast?   I >> I believe I have seen both Opteron and Itanium chips in the $200 pricel5 >> range, I don't know the price for MoBo and memory.0  I > Can't say about the Itanics, you're way off on the Opterons unless you  J > are referring to the slower, single-processor models but I'm working on E > a Dual Opteron project and the Opteron 248's are about $1k each in v> > box-sets with a fan, and the Tyan MB's are in the $400 tier.  @ Yes, that was the low end Opterons.  On the one I saw, they wereE cheaper than the low end Athlon64, though I don't know how the speedsr7 actually compared.  They looked about the same, though.c  E That $400 is for a dual processor board?  How about single processor.a  @ I am considering a low end home machine, either x86-64 or IA-64.   -- glenf   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:29:36 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>o4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?' Message-ID: <4044FCC0.9060701@MMaz.com>o   glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:   > Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: >c >> glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:e >t >e1 > (snip including educational licenses for Alpha)a >hF >>> Are used Alphas really cheaper than a comparable off-brand PC with& >>> the previous generation processor? >> >fG >> Aren't all used alphas pretty much previous generation these days?   G >> Also consider, that the Alpha can run native VMS, the PC can though r( >> it accessible vma SimH or CHARON-VAX. >R >PE > Yes, I meant that the PC's would also be previous generation, which@ > is probably a few months ago.b >o2 >>> How about a new Athlon64, though not too fast? >> >tJ >>> I believe I have seen both Opteron and Itanium chips in the $200 price6 >>> range, I don't know the price for MoBo and memory. >> >rF >> Can't say about the Itanics, you're way off on the Opterons unless D >> you are referring to the slower, single-processor models but I'm I >> working on a Dual Opteron project and the Opteron 248's are about $1k eG >> each in box-sets with a fan, and the Tyan MB's are in the $400 tier.: >: >SB > Yes, that was the low end Opterons.  On the one I saw, they wereG > cheaper than the low end Athlon64, though I don't know how the speeds 9 > actually compared.  They looked about the same, though.- >kG > That $400 is for a dual processor board?  How about single processor.B >6B > I am considering a low end home machine, either x86-64 or IA-64.  6 Use www.PriceGrabber.com and you can look into this...   Barrye   -- d  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        (   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 21:40:27 -0000o, From: rdd@rhiannon.rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?0 Message-ID: <1047beb74vcno33@corp.supernews.com>  
 In articleG <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB2792F1@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>,s) "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes:i  E > If one were to look at all of the licensing programs and associatedfI > issues with HP-UX, Tru64 UNIX, NSK, OpenVMS, Windows and now Linux, onehI > would quickly realize that it would be almost impossible for one personoI > to become a "licensing expert" in all of these different OS areas. They 2 > do their best, but sometimes, mistakes are made.  F If companies stuck to the core of their businesses instead of greadilyE gobbling up more companies than they knew how to properly manage, andtC upper management was more concerned with the company's products andaF their quality---and actually knew something about the products, ratherE than concentrating on profits from buyouts and extreme penny-pinchingaB that helps only their own personal net worths, there would be less) confusion, more competiton and more jobs.   I > I expect that the occasional mistake also gets made with regards to the I > specifics of NSK, HP-UX and Tru64 licensing as well. This is not uniquen > to OpenVMS.=20  F If the mistakes made by that little blonde running HP is any indicator, of mistakes made companywide, enough said.       -- tN Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: M All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &  O rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such I http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 23:37:10 GMTy# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>l4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?I Message-ID: <GU81c.102759$Qg7.68174@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In articleG > <Xr01c.66052$ah.17182@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "Johnl! > Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:d >>G >> And while Mark is loking into it, suggest that he allow the Hobbyist F >> licenses to be used by all educational institutions, K-12, colleges> >> and universities as long as they are used for instructionalD >> purposes. Seems to me that the Hobbyist licenses are less onerous4 >> and less expensive than the Educational licenses. > F > Already been suggested on a number of occaisions.  And rejected each > and every time.W    F HP just isn't to be taken seriously then. A serious company identifies> what's wrong and takes constructive steps to fix the problems.  B Just how freaking hard is it to takes steps to make VMS visible inF .edu-land? Not hard, unless your intent as a corporation is to keep itJ invisible so that nobody would go out of their way to ask for it once theyE reached the working world after having been exposed to it in college.t  J If it was just begnin neglect, HP would have done something about it afterJ it had been brought to their attention. But it isn't begnin neglect - it'sF deliberate policy - In some worlds it is called 'planned attrition' or
 'downsizing'.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:00:23 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>14 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?J Message-ID: <Xr01c.66052$ah.17182@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Alan Frisbie wrote:  > John,  > ; > Please keep in mind that I did not direct *ANY* questionsA; > concerning the hobbyist license to Madi.   The topic only : > came up after I inquired about transferring the original7 > VMS license that I believed the system was sold with.  >0> > After she basically shot me down, I said that since this was@ > not for commercial use anyway, I would simply use the hobbyist> > license.   That is when she sent me the quote in my original
 > posting. > B >> Madi the HP licensing Representative worked for DEC, Compaq andB >  > Now is an HP licensing representative with 20+ years with all >  > companies.o >k@ > After 20 years of working with VMS licensing, she still hasn't  > heard of the hobbyist program? >.; > Wait until you see some of her other statements about VMSm? > licensing.   I'm giving her boss time to research them before < > I post them here.   Lets just say that they are at extreme> > variance with what VMS customers have been told for the last= > fifteen years.   They may be "right", but they are not whatl > we were told at DECUS! >0@ > I'm sure glad I saved the audio tapes of those DECUS sessions!    D And while Mark is loking into it, suggest that he allow the HobbyistG licenses to be used by all educational institutions, K-12, colleges andmJ universities as long as they are used for instructional purposes. Seems toJ me that the Hobbyist licenses are less onerous and less expensive than the Educational licenses.   K THis way an educational institution can get an Alpha for next to nothing on0L eBay (or donated by one of us) and get free licenses to use to educate kids.  K It's not like HP is making any money selling educational use (as opposed to J academic admin use) licences anyway. They might as well be used to teach aI bunch of newbies. It's really no different than Proctor & Gamble having a(G bunch of college students handing out free sample packs of Tide on busyeE street corners to build brand awareness and future purchasing intent.a  F But I guess the marketing brain trust at HP  never took Marketing 101.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:18:06 GMTe0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>D Subject: Re: VMS Standalone Backup bootable tape image for emulator?0 Message-ID: <2_51c.444343$I06.4950919@attbi_s01>   Stanley F. Quayle wrote:  3 > On 2 Mar 2004 at 7:58, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:l  H >>If one wanted to install 5.5-2 under the hobbyist license, where would> >>one find the distribution tapes or CDs?   (For a VS3100-30.)   > Start at:d  # >   http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/e  = I see how to get OpenVMS 7.3, but not VMS 5.5-2.  Maybe it isi$ hidden where I don't see it, though.   -- glen    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:56:48 -05004 From: "Robert G. Schaffrath" <rschaffrath@yahoo.com>@ Subject: VMS Standalone Backup bootable tape image for emulator?0 Message-ID: <1047chq5banq8f4@corp.supernews.com>  J After many years out of the VMS business, I decided to try out the OpenVMSK Hobbyist program.  I have applied for Associate Membership in Encompass and C I managed to dig up a 7+ year old image backup of an old VMS V5.5-2.K VAXStation 4000 system disk that I had put in storage around the same time.gL Luckily it was stored very well as I have been able to extract the tape dataK as a raw tape image that the SIMH emulator should be able to use.  However,tK I do not have a bootable standalone backup that I could use to recreate thenH disk through the emulator.  Other than purchasing the 7.3 CDROM, which IC plan to do, is there a SIMH compatible version of standalone backup:H available for download somewhere?  I would love to try and get the 5.5-2G system back online again.  Otherwise I would probably create just a 7.3tI system disk and then restore the 5.5-2 backup to a second disk.  I am notoF sure what the learning curve is between V5.5-2 and V7.3.  I missed the entire V6.x series.t   TIA, -- Robert G. Schaffrath   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:19:29 -0600t@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>D Subject: Re: VMS Standalone Backup bootable tape image for emulator?6 Message-ID: <404532A1.E7E53E76@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: >  > Stanley F. Quayle wrote: > 5 > > On 2 Mar 2004 at 7:58, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:R > J > >>If one wanted to install 5.5-2 under the hobbyist license, where would@ > >>one find the distribution tapes or CDs?   (For a VS3100-30.) > 
 > > Start at:o > % > >   http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/K > ? > I see how to get OpenVMS 7.3, but not VMS 5.5-2.  Maybe it isa& > hidden where I don't see it, though.  E Dunno where they are right now (we're two weeks away from moving intotE our new house, so everything is packed away), but I have the savesetsiD for V5.5-2 on CD. If you can wait a while, I could send them to you.   -- k David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/k   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 13:20:18 -0800e- From: phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer)t7 Subject: Re: WARNING: Your messages are being cancelledn= Message-ID: <5ee1d1b7.0403021320.420a0b5c@posting.google.com>i  ^ Warning <warning@for.you> wrote in message news:<61U4C2AO38046.9770138889@anonymous.poster>...N > If you participate in any of the dozens of newsgroups that JF Mezei infects,$ > your messages are being cancelled. > Q > He forges the names and e-mail addressess of newsgroup participants and cancelsm > their messages.z >   C I guess somebody is getting their messages canceled and is in a bad4C mood over it.  Ohhhhh,  Somebody must have a case of the Mondays...e  D Maybe the person posting all this nonsense ais having their messagesF canceld for good reason.  It's called anti-spam.  I think whoever thisA person is must be a teenager with entirely too much time on their<A hands and nothing better to do but post messages like that to the1 usenet.3  D The only reason they don't put a proper name to the posts is becauseF they wouldn't last a day in the real world before they would be listed- on the Jimmy Hoffa list with the authorities.:   PT.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:44:50 -0600:! From: Good Man <heyho@letsgo.com>D7 Subject: Re: WARNING: Your messages are being cancelled17 Message-ID: <Xns949FA030B106Bsonicyouth@216.196.97.132>d  " Warning <warning@for.you> wrote in0 news:61U4C2AO38046.9770138889@anonymous.poster:       J you anonymous sack of shit!  you're such a coward.  i can't wait till you L end up in jail for harrassment.  go fuck yourself and stop posting to these  groups, asshole.   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:40:26 +0000 (UTC)* From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau); Subject: Re: Why does smtp mail between local systems fail?t0 Message-ID: <c22nva$jkd$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>  F Well, I have another datum to report, which may bring us closer to the0 truth (though the truth seems to keep moving :-)  H Working on a guess from a coworker, I created an empty smtp.config file,G then tried to telnet/port=25 into my system.  The smtp server responded J within 2 secs!  I put back the original smtp.config file, tried again, andK it took ~30 secs.  I next tried commenting out just the line that lists rbl  sites; the line wasE  % RBLs: bl.spamcop.net, dnsbl.sorbs.nets  A The smtp server now responds with its HELO line in just 1-2 secs.   I So, it would seem that rbl lookup is causing the large delay.  Has anyone I observed this?  Try telnet/port=25 yoursystem and just count off how longiJ it takes for it to respond.  (After it does, enter QUIT (uppercase) to end
 the session.)c  J Maybe this behavior has been here all along and I just noticed it; I don'tC know as I'm not running anti-spam stuff on any other of my systems.n  H Has anyone noticed this behavior on their systems, and what is the tcpip and VMS version if so?  G Here's some other points to consider.  There are some Mac systems in my H group that run anti-spam s/w by doing rbl lookups to the same rbl sites,F and they respond within 2 secs, while VMS doesn't.  Kinda hard to just! blame the rbl sites in that case.e  H Also, one responder suggested increasing CTLPAGES.  I did this on one ofJ the systems, and the delay dropped from 62 secs to 31 secs while it stayedI ~65 secs on the other system.  However, a few days later, the delay on my E other system *also* dropped to about 31 secs consistently, and it hadiG CTLPAGES still at 256, no increase!  So increasing CTLPAGES at best can $ help, at worst has no effect at all.  M Does anyone use rbl's on a tcpip 5.3 or 5.4 system and *not* have this delay?i  : Why should it happen on VMS if it doesn't happen on a Mac?  J Finally, does anyone know of a way to reduce or eliminate the delay (other than increasing CTLPAGES)?   Thanks.    Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.edur   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 09:27:26 -0600n; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler),: Subject: writing a server for Multinet using UCX emulation3 Message-ID: <YuYh$BDSrTkM@eisner.encompasserve.org>   G    I'm working on a port of an existing utility using the UCX emulationo.    in Multinet 4.4A to run as a known service:      multinet conf/server.    SERVER-CONFIG> add aa    Protocol: [TCP]    TCP Port number: 2600'    Program to run: user4:[koehler]a.comp    SERVER-CONFIG>restart  E    The utility requires an argument, so I'm setting up a .COM file as E    the program to run.  I've looked at existing .COM files which ship F    with Multinet (IMAP_SERVER.COM looked helpfull), and I've gone over>    the Programmer's Reference example for a service which uses'    Multinet's socket routines directly.   @    What I find (using the debugger directed to a DECterm createdB    with /noproc) is that reading from stdin with getchar() always F    returns EOF, no matter what data I've passed. The following little E    program and command file illustrate the problem when connected via$  !       telnet localhost /port=2600o    mK    Sometimes I can get %RMS-F-FAC instead with the full utility.  It's not r?    clear how I get that, but to the program it's still EOF fromh    getchar()  H    I've tried various combinations of using or ommiting the redefinitionL    of sys$input in the .COM file, and putting in or leaving out the $assign     to sys$input in the code.  G    Do I have to recode to use Multinet socket routines, or am I missing 
    something?o  F    I'm getting no where right now and I have (I assume) other problems=    I'd rather work on, such as replacing fork() with threads.)   a.com contains:M' $!define/user_mode sys$input sys$outputr $mcr user4:[koehler]a arg1  
 a.c contains:- #include <stdio.h> #include <descrip.h> #include <starlet.h> #include <stsdef.h>    main(int argc, char* argv[]) {r	    int i;w    short chan;
    char a;
    FILE* log;4#    $DESCRIPTOR(input,"SYS$INPUT:");c      if (argc != 2) return 0;b  &    i = sys$assign(&input,&chan,0,0,0);)    if (!$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS(i)) return i;   +    log = fopen("user4:[koehler]a.log","w");a    if (log == NULL)     {       perror("can't open log");u       return 0;o    }         dog    {       i = getchar();       if (i == EOF) return 1;e       a = i;       putc(a,log);    }    while(1); }t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:25:29 +0300 : From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev{at}DeltaTelecom{dot}RU>> Subject: Re: writing a server for Multinet using UCX emulation3 Message-ID: <D5C44E713D7FC0B1A0B75315E1D96A70@nntp>p   Hello, Bob,n5 	see an complete "example" of TCP-server application:r 	n< 	http://starlet.deltatel.ru/~laishev/delta/logica/smsc2evt.c   > a.com contains:v) > $!define/user_mode sys$input sys$outputo > $mcr user4:[koehler]a arg1 >  > a.c contains:t > #include <stdio.h> > #include <descrip.h> > #include <starlet.h> > #include <stsdef.h>  >  > main(int argc, char* argv[]) > {c >    int i;e >    short chan; >    char a; >    FILE* log; % >    $DESCRIPTOR(input,"SYS$INPUT:");  >  >    if (argc != 2) return 0;p > ( >    i = sys$assign(&input,&chan,0,0,0);+ >    if (!$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS(i)) return i;h- 	You need assing and set mode of the channel.i   > - >    log = fopen("user4:[koehler]a.log","w");n >    if (log == NULL)o >    {! >       perror("can't open log");s >       return 0;e >    } >      >    dou >    { >       i = getchar();I 	You should use sys$qio for reading from I/O channel instead of getchar()      >       if (i == EOF) return 1;  >       a = i; >       putc(a,log); >    } >    while(1); > }      -- a Cheers, Ruslan.sD +---------------------pure personal opinion------------------------+C   RADIUS Server for OpenVMS project - www.starlet.spb.ru/radiusvms/e@   TKD (WTF) in Russia, St.-Petersburg - www.TaeKwonDo-WTF.SPb.RU   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2004 13:36:50 -0600t; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-> Subject: Re: writing a server for Multinet using UCX emulation3 Message-ID: <wl7KPCajL0LF@eisner.encompasserve.org>U  p In article <D5C44E713D7FC0B1A0B75315E1D96A70@nntp>, "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev{at}DeltaTelecom{dot}RU> writes:  K > 	You should use sys$qio for reading from I/O channel instead of getchar()   G    That's a much bigger set of changes than I really want to do.  Since4H    the Multinet socket routines take a chaneel rather than a file numberF    I should be able to use them if I have to (as the Multinet examples	    show).    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 21:09:47 GMTo& From: Don Sykes <paladin@mydomain.com> Subject: Re: Zip/update Issueo< Message-ID: <vEN0c.4649$jb2.2094@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>   Brian Tillman wrote: > Don Sykes wrote: >  > A >>I have a Self-extracting zip file I use to distribute software. 8 >>It is created on an NT4.0 and copied to my VMS server.= >>I'd like to update one file in this file dynamically, on myy
 >>VMS server;m? >>but when I do and download it back to my NT and run it, I gete> >>"zip file is damaged, truncated or has been changed since it >>was created..."t >  > B > Perhaps this question is better asked at info-zip@lists.wku.edu.   Done. I'll post the results.   -- t   Have VMS, Will Travele Wire paladin, San Francisco    (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 21:18:52 GMTe& From: Don Sykes <paladin@mydomain.com> Subject: Re: Zip/update Issuen< Message-ID: <0NN0c.4652$pw2.4235@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>   Martin Vorlaender wrote:   > David J. Dachtera wrote: > ...u >   >>Dunno if VMS zip will do that. >  >  > It doesn't have to. My test:# > - Uploaded a Win ZIP file to VMS.r( > - Uploaded a Win32 UNZIPSFX.EXE to VMS+ > - $ COPY UNZIPSFX.EXE+zipfile zipfile.EXEb# > - Downloaded zipfile.EXE to WinNT  > - Executed zipfile.EXE >  > & >>Dunno where to get the WhineBloze SE >>stub for freeware ZIP. >  > + > I just put it (from Info-ZIP v5.40) up ona3 > ftp://ftp.pdv-systeme.de/unzipsfx-win32.exe (92k). >  > cu,n
 >   Martin  F I'll try this if I can strip off a copy of Win32 UNZIPSFX.EXE from my H SEzip file. Otherwise, I assume a generic copy of UNZIPSFX.EXE wouldn't : contain the options I used when I created the SEzip using  WinZip-Self-Extractor(R).    --     Have VMS, Will Traveli Wire paladin, San Franciscot   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 22:48:16 GMT & From: Don Sykes <paladin@mydomain.com> Subject: Re: Zip/update Issuea< Message-ID: <Q4P0c.4675$1c3.1265@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>   Don Sykes wrote:  A > I have a Self-extracting zip file I use to distribute software. 8 > It is created on an NT4.0 and copied to my VMS server.J > I'd like to update one file in this file dynamically, on my VMS server; ? > but when I do and download it back to my NT and run it, I getiC > "zip file is damaged, truncated or has been changed since it was k
 > created..."uK > Note: this file works fine in its original form. I can download to my PC e > & install - no problem.fI > Also I can update a regular zip file on VMS & download and install, no b
 > problem.B > I've tried several variations of: zip/update myFile.zip new.fileH > but to no avail. Can any of you wise people help? Maybe David the Zip 	 > Master?  >  > TIA  >  > Don  >   I I notice now, that after doing a zip/update overriding the license file,   the file goes from:VE      Organization: SEQ   RecordFormat: STMLF     RecordAttributes: CRb)      MaxRecordSize: 0    LongestRecord: 0- TOB      Organization: SEQ   RecordFormat: FIX       RecordAttributes:+      MaxRecordSize: 512  LongestRecord: 512j  1 And if I try to convert/fdl=... the file becomes:cE      Organization: SEQ   RecordFormat: STMLF     RecordAttributes: CRh+      MaxRecordSize: 0    LongestRecord: 512   I THEN, when I download it back to my NT box it looks like an exe, instead /F of a zip file. That is the file icon changes from a zip to a command, % even tho the file ext is always .exe. G But if I try to execute this version, I get "is not a valid Windows NT i application"  I At this point, I'm not sure if I'm getting closer, or farther away, from   the solution ;))?n     -- c   Have VMS, Will Travele Wire paladin, San Franciscog   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:50:03 -0600n@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: Zip/update IssueI6 Message-ID: <4043CC2B.85072F12@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Don Sykes wrote: >  > Martin Vorlaender wrote: >  > > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > ...e > >d" > >>Dunno if VMS zip will do that. > >y > >_  > > It doesn't have to. My test:% > > - Uploaded a Win ZIP file to VMS.t* > > - Uploaded a Win32 UNZIPSFX.EXE to VMS- > > - $ COPY UNZIPSFX.EXE+zipfile zipfile.EXEk% > > - Downloaded zipfile.EXE to WinNTt > > - Executed zipfile.EXE > >_ > >&( > >>Dunno where to get the WhineBloze SE > >>stub for freeware ZIP. > >  > > - > > I just put it (from Info-ZIP v5.40) up on05 > > ftp://ftp.pdv-systeme.de/unzipsfx-win32.exe (92k)  > >p > > cu,t > >   Martin > G > I'll try this if I can strip off a copy of Win32 UNZIPSFX.EXE from my I > SEzip file. Otherwise, I assume a generic copy of UNZIPSFX.EXE wouldn'tT; > contain the options I used when I created the SEzip usinge > WinZip-Self-Extractor(R).p  H AH! That may explain a lot. We're mixing engines here: WINZip, Info-Zip.  @ Also, the SE stub doesn't "contain options". It uses compiled-inA defaults. Specific options, if required, must be specified on the 
 command line.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE SystemsF http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/0   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:57:49 -06001@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: Zip/update Issue06 Message-ID: <4043CDFD.D0E579E0@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Don Sykes wrote: >  > Don Sykes wrote: > C > > I have a Self-extracting zip file I use to distribute software.6: > > It is created on an NT4.0 and copied to my VMS server.K > > I'd like to update one file in this file dynamically, on my VMS server;FA > > but when I do and download it back to my NT and run it, I get D > > "zip file is damaged, truncated or has been changed since it was > > created..." L > > Note: this file works fine in its original form. I can download to my PC > > & install - no problem.1J > > Also I can update a regular zip file on VMS & download and install, no > > problem.D > > I've tried several variations of: zip/update myFile.zip new.fileI > > but to no avail. Can any of you wise people help? Maybe David the Zip0 > > Master?3 > >  > > TIA0 > >C > > DonA > >  > J > I notice now, that after doing a zip/update overriding the license file, > the file goes from: G >      Organization: SEQ   RecordFormat: STMLF     RecordAttributes: CR + >      MaxRecordSize: 0    LongestRecord: 0F > TOD >      Organization: SEQ   RecordFormat: FIX       RecordAttributes:- >      MaxRecordSize: 512  LongestRecord: 512p > 3 > And if I try to convert/fdl=... the file becomes:sG >      Organization: SEQ   RecordFormat: STMLF     RecordAttributes: CR - >      MaxRecordSize: 0    LongestRecord: 512  > J > THEN, when I download it back to my NT box it looks like an exe, insteadG > of a zip file. That is the file icon changes from a zip to a command,t' > even tho the file ext is always .exe.gH > But if I try to execute this version, I get "is not a valid Windows NT > application" > J > At this point, I'm not sure if I'm getting closer, or farther away, from > the solution ;))?n  H I don't like that STMLF/0 bit. Looks like a bad transfer mode (ASCII, in= which case the file is irrecoverably corrupted). It should bes- transferred as binary resulting in FIXED-512.e  
 I'd try this:t  *  1. Verify that transfer to VMS is binary.  H  2. Before attempting the update, verify that the file is FIXED-512. UseC SET FILE/ATTR=(RFM=FIX,LRL=512), but only if necessary. If it isn'tq9 FIXED-512, troubleshoot your transfer method until it is.o  G  3. Do the update; re-extract and compare to verify that the update wasm successful.e  "  4. Transfer back to NT as binary.  9  5. Try extract on NT to verify that SE is working still.u   -- w David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/6   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 05:57:02 GMTy& From: Don Sykes <paladin@mydomain.com> Subject: Re: Zip/update Issuen; Message-ID: <OmV0c.4777$hO7.611@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>r   David J. Dachtera wrote:   > Don Sykes wrote: >  >>Martin Vorlaender wrote: >> >> >>>David J. Dachtera wrote:g >>>... >>>l >>>h" >>>>Dunno if VMS zip will do that. >>>e >>>i >>>It doesn't have to. My test: $ >>>- Uploaded a Win ZIP file to VMS.) >>>- Uploaded a Win32 UNZIPSFX.EXE to VMSo, >>>- $ COPY UNZIPSFX.EXE+zipfile zipfile.EXE$ >>>- Downloaded zipfile.EXE to WinNT >>>- Executed zipfile.EXEe >>>e >>>g >>>d( >>>>Dunno where to get the WhineBloze SE >>>>stub for freeware ZIP. >>>  >>> , >>>I just put it (from Info-ZIP v5.40) up on4 >>>ftp://ftp.pdv-systeme.de/unzipsfx-win32.exe (92k) >>>n >>>cu, >>>  Martinh >>G >>I'll try this if I can strip off a copy of Win32 UNZIPSFX.EXE from my I >>SEzip file. Otherwise, I assume a generic copy of UNZIPSFX.EXE wouldn'te; >>contain the options I used when I created the SEzip usingg >>WinZip-Self-Extractor(R).: >  > J > AH! That may explain a lot. We're mixing engines here: WINZip, Info-Zip. >  How so?   B > Also, the SE stub doesn't "contain options". It uses compiled-inC > defaults. Specific options, if required, must be specified on thei > command line.,  H What I mean by "options" is the info I specify when creating the SEzip; H like what file to run after unzip completes, what messages to display &  such.    >      -- t   Have VMS, Will Travels Wire paladin, San Franciscoa   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:07:15 -0600i@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: Zip/update Issuei6 Message-ID: <40452FC3.A2AABA50@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Don Sykes wrote: >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: >  > > Don Sykes wrote: > >c > >>Martin Vorlaender wrote: > >> > >> > >>>David J. Dachtera wrote:. > >>>... > >>>- > >>>-$ > >>>>Dunno if VMS zip will do that. > >>>4 > >>>4! > >>>It doesn't have to. My test: & > >>>- Uploaded a Win ZIP file to VMS.+ > >>>- Uploaded a Win32 UNZIPSFX.EXE to VMS . > >>>- $ COPY UNZIPSFX.EXE+zipfile zipfile.EXE& > >>>- Downloaded zipfile.EXE to WinNT > >>>- Executed zipfile.EXEr > >>>k > >>>o > >>>g* > >>>>Dunno where to get the WhineBloze SE > >>>>stub for freeware ZIP. > >>>t > >>> . > >>>I just put it (from Info-ZIP v5.40) up on6 > >>>ftp://ftp.pdv-systeme.de/unzipsfx-win32.exe (92k) > >>>  > >>>cu,
 > >>>  Martins > >>I > >>I'll try this if I can strip off a copy of Win32 UNZIPSFX.EXE from myhK > >>SEzip file. Otherwise, I assume a generic copy of UNZIPSFX.EXE wouldn't>= > >>contain the options I used when I created the SEzip usingc > >>WinZip-Self-Extractor(R).d > >k > > L > > AH! That may explain a lot. We're mixing engines here: WINZip, Info-Zip. > >s	 > How so?   F WINZip is WINZip, InfoZip is InfoZip. They may use PK's algorithm, but5 otherwsie don't share an awful lot of code in common.   D > > Also, the SE stub doesn't "contain options". It uses compiled-inE > > defaults. Specific options, if required, must be specified on thes > > command line.d > I > What I mean by "options" is the info I specify when creating the SEzip;mI > like what file to run after unzip completes, what messages to display &s > such.r  F Essentially, the ZIP-file comment? (Note: the what-to-execute-next bit is WinZip-specific.)   -- O David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:09:05 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: Zip/update Issue 5 Message-ID: <40453031.EB2D346@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>-   Martin Vorlaender wrote: >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > Martin Vorlaender wrote: > >> > >> David J. Dachtera wrote:r > >> ...$ > >>> Dunno if VMS zip will do that. > >>! > >> It doesn't have to. My test:r& > >> - Uploaded a Win ZIP file to VMS.+ > >> - Uploaded a Win32 UNZIPSFX.EXE to VMSa. > >> - $ COPY UNZIPSFX.EXE+zipfile zipfile.EXE& > >> - Downloaded zipfile.EXE to WinNT > >> - Executed zipfile.EXE  > >rD > > Did you get any messages about prepended stuff being unexpected? > B > Errr... no. I start with an pure Win32 ZIP file, not with an SFXA > archive. I'd think that you could insert/update any file on VMSs9 > (not using -V) and get it extracted correctly on Win32.e  F That's what I'd expect, also. Based on further reading from Don Sykes,# that appears to not be his problem.n   -- u David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/O   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:13:33 -0600s@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: Zip/update Issueo6 Message-ID: <4045313D.F2D8AF88@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Don Sykes wrote: > [snip]G > All the SEzip files and standard zip files are created on the NT then6I > zipped together and then ftp'd (as bin) to VMS. Then I just do an unzipu	 > on VMS.   H O.k. There's the piece that was ambiguous. At first it appeared that youF were trying to use VMS ZIP to update a file within an archive produced on a non-VMS system.  A > Remember, all these files work fine on NT (or other fine M$ OS) H > after they're downloaded from VMS. It's only after I do an update to a  > SEzip that I have the problem. > 5 > After the unzip on VMS all the SEzip files show as:t   Please define "SEzip files".  G >      Organization: SEQ   RecordFormat: STMLF     RecordAttributes: CR + >      MaxRecordSize: 0    LongestRecord: 0  > H > and as I said I can download them back to my NT at this point and they > work fine.  > Maybe you should post (or e-mail) the commands you're using toD accomplish the task you're attempting. We're getting too confused by terminology here.    -- c David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:57:39 GMT>& From: Don Sykes <paladin@mydomain.com> Subject: Re: Zip/update Issuee; Message-ID: <7z61c.5206$9l.1977@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>    Martin Vorlaender wrote: > David J. Dachtera wrote: >  >>Martin Vorlaender wrote: >> >>>David J. Dachtera wrote:o >>>... >>> " >>>>Dunno if VMS zip will do that. >>>o >>>It doesn't have to. My test:o$ >>>- Uploaded a Win ZIP file to VMS.) >>>- Uploaded a Win32 UNZIPSFX.EXE to VMS:, >>>- $ COPY UNZIPSFX.EXE+zipfile zipfile.EXE$ >>>- Downloaded zipfile.EXE to WinNT >>>- Executed zipfile.EXE6 >>B >>Did you get any messages about prepended stuff being unexpected? >  > B > Errr... no. I start with an pure Win32 ZIP file, not with an SFXA > archive. I'd think that you could insert/update any file on VMS 9 > (not using -V) and get it extracted correctly on Win32.m >  y  C I tried the above using the Winzipse.exe that came with the WinZip  F Self-Extractor(R) ( there is no UNZIPSFX.EXE ). But when I paste them C together, download & execute the product, I get : "Internal error:   cannot run winzipse32.exe"  H Now I,m going to try to strip off the prefix part of the SEzip.exe that H was fully created on NT, then update the remainder and stick the prefix  part back on after...e     > ( >>>>Dunno where to get the WhineBloze SE >>>>stub for freeware ZIP. >>>c, >>>I just put it (from Info-ZIP v5.40) up on4 >>>ftp://ftp.pdv-systeme.de/unzipsfx-win32.exe (92k) >  > ? > Update: that file is now built from the Info-ZIP v5.50 sourceg	 > distro.s > % > The official site to get it from isN* > http://www.info-zip.org/UnZip.html#Win32. > Choose a download site and get unz550xN.exe. >  > cu,r
 >   Martin     -- c   Have VMS, Will Traveli Wire paladin, San Franciscor   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:27:45 +0000 (UTC)' From: Thomas Dzubin <dzubint@vcn.bc.ca> < Subject: Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so...) Message-ID: <c22n7h$a6g$1@luna.vcn.bc.ca>c  # Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote:-O > You have been recently appointed HP OpenVMS Marketing Manager and you are in fL > charge, together with MaryJane V., Sue S. and Hoff H. to promote the Nr 1  > Operating System worldwide.e ...o( > Now, what would be your first actions? > [X] other (please comment)  G (I originally wrote this response SEVEN YEARS AGO...use www.deja.com tonE find my original Usenet response ...please substitute "HP" for "DEC")t  H Subject:      Re: Why can't Digital market? (Was Re: DEC vs Sun & PPro?)4 From:         Thomas Dzubin <no.email.for@me.please> Date:         1997/02/040 Message-ID:   <5d8589$2vs@fountain.mindlink.net>= Newsgroups:   comp.os.vms,alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.decv  J Nawww.  Performance stats don't seem to mean anything.  What DEC needs is:  F 1) A cute little four note trademarked anthem...perhaps the reverse ofH    the Intel cute little four note trademarked anthem which seems to get/    played in every computer ad on radio and TV.s  F 2) Purchase the rights to a big (in the 70's) rock group song and playH    it in all commercials while blasting hundreds of images at the viewerI    in 30 seconds.  BTW the images don't necessarily have to have anythingtB    to do with the product...preferably some sort of fighter/rocket;    simulation thingy with lots of kewl sound effects, dude.e  H 3) For goodness sakes, don't advertise during the news.  Try advertisingF    during Married With Children, or E.R., or that silly show with that    Urkel (sp?) guy.   I 3a) Get TV or movie characters to use the product.  Give Jerry Seinfeld aeG    big honkin' VAX or Alpha system that takes up half of his apartment.s+    Think of the witty dialog on 'Seinfeld':   I      George: "Jerry, can you drive my parents down to Florida next week?"h@      Jerry: "Sorry George, I'm upgrading my cluster to VMS v7.1")          (audience laughter and applause)o  H    Make sure Mulder and Scully (The X-Files) use an Alpha running UCX toD    solve some alien murder or person-melting-on-the-highway mystery.I    I'm not sure how, but I'm sure we can get Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman to I    use an old VAX 11/780 to show how Digital had the technology to do theeC    job *right*, even back in the 1800's.  Show how VMS clusters cani.    actually save lives on Chicago Hope or "ER"  F 4) Imply that the ONLY way to get full use out of "The Internet" is toF    have a Digital AXP system. (don't forget the cute four-note ditty).  @ 5) Hire a tiger team to produce videos with DEC equipment in theB    background for shows like "Real TV" or "America's Funniest HomeC    Videos"...eg: kitty cat accidentally tips over a RAID tower, butlE    data is intact.  Dog pees on AXP pedestal system, but system keepstG    working.  Baby accidentally types @SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN while smilingdH    into the camera...family is logged off, but can successfully log back    in after Mom reboots.  K 6) Perhaps some scandal involving Madonna or a British Member of ParliamentlH    caught with an Intel computer.  Have an outraged tabloid press screamF    for legislation requiring public personalities to use only Digital.H     (Hmmmm...notice that MOP can be Maintenance Operations Protocol *OR*2     Member Of Parliament - do I smell conspiracy?)   :-)   < (yeah, I know...a mostly North-American-centric post...sorry   Thomas Dzubin,5 Member: PDP-11s anonymous (I'm hooked and I admit it)h( Calgary, Saskatoon, and Vancouver CANADA2 non-spam e-mail to: dzubint "AT" vcn dot bc dot ca   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:14:01 GMTn# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t< Subject: Re: [GAME] you've been appointed VMS Mkt Mgr, so...J Message-ID: <th31c.67082$ah.52685@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   William Webb wrote:D/ > Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote in message 2 > news:<403f1255$0$22407$626a14ce@news.free.fr>... >> P*o*e*t*s >> Let's relax a bit.n >>D >> You have been recently appointed HP OpenVMS Marketing Manager andF >> you are in charge, together with MaryJane V., Sue S. and Hoff H. to/ >> promote the Nr 1 Operating System worldwide.s >> >> Congratulations.o >>) >> Now, what would be your first actions?t >>* >> [ ] retire and put Sue in your armchair >e	 > Didier,t >s0 > If you consider how much Sue has done for VMS:3 > she doesn't rate an armchair, she rates a THRONE.d    
 Corollary....eK If Sue rates a throne for all she's done for VMS, then carly(tm), Stallard,a; Robison, et al. rate a gibbet for all they've done for VMS.l   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.124 ************************