1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 04 Mar 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 126       Contents:+ Re: Best Backup Blocksize for 110SDLT Tape? + Re: Best Backup Blocksize for 110SDLT Tape? 5 CDs in Canada ( was Re: Support of USB Memory stick ) 9 Re: CDs in Canada ( was Re: Support of USB Memory stick ) 9 Re: CDs in Canada ( was Re: Support of USB Memory stick ) 9 Re: CDs in Canada ( was Re: Support of USB Memory stick ) 9 Re: CDs in Canada ( was Re: Support of USB Memory stick ) 9 Re: CDs in Canada ( was Re: Support of USB Memory stick ) 7 Destroying CDR media (Was: Support of USB Memory stick)  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon  Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon ! Re: MUMPS/DSM/M for OpenVMS Alpha # Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....  Re: OpenVMS Feelings Re: OpenVMS Feelings! OSU HTTPD and TRACE vulnerability & Re: Pathworks-32 and Windaube XPrience& Re: Pathworks-32 and Windaube XPrience& Re: Pathworks-32 and Windaube XPrience Sun On The Run?  Re: Support of USB Memory stick  Re: Support of USB Memory stick  Re: Support of USB Memory stick  Re: Support of USB Memory stick  Re: Support of USB Memory stick  Re: Support of USB Memory stick  Re: Support of USB Memory stick   RE: upgrade path to Alpha 7.3...1 User-written system service, how to protect data? 5 Re: User-written system service, how to protect data? 5 Re: User-written system service, how to protect data? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?  VOL Shadow an mounted drive  Re: VOL Shadow an mounted drive 2 Re: Why does smtp mail between local systems fail?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 3 Mar 2004 14:31:09 -0800 7 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) 4 Subject: Re: Best Backup Blocksize for 110SDLT Tape?= Message-ID: <8a646952.0403031431.67d46f98@posting.google.com>    Dear Safir:   @ No, I don't mean copy. Backup command was used during the backupD process and it was a restore of the multiple volume backup using theE Backup command. And as you have stated here the backup restore should C be successful. But what I am hearing from the field is the opposite - when using the block size greater than 32256.   @ You can copy savesets from tape and do a restore of the saveset. However, the command would be:         $ mount/override=id tape:        $ dir tape: 0       $ copy tape:saveset_name disk:[directory]*  C What happens hear is that the tape looks like a disk and the simple  copy command works.    Regards, Daryl Jones       h axica_nopub@yahoo.com (Safir) wrote in message news:<2b49c9e0.0403030521.1df12a08@posting.google.com>... > > J > > I have been told by more than a couple System Manager that the maximumH > > backup block size should be the same as the default backup blocksizeG > > when you are backing up from disk to disk which is 32256. Any block H > > size other greater than 32256 will cause the backup restore to fail.D > > Thus makeing the backup useless. This isn't theory because thoseJ > > System Managers actually tested the backup and restores with different > > blocksize for proof. > >  > @ > I think you mean the $ copy will fail with block size > 32256. > * > The restore vith backup should succeed : > P > [OpenVMS] Copying Save Set From Tape To Disk Fails With OPENIN And IRC Errors N > Copyright (c) 1987, 2000. Compaq Computer Corporation.  All rights reserved. > 0 > PRODUCT:    Compaq OpenVMS Alpha, All Versions. >             Compaq OpenVMS VAX, All Versions >  > COMPONENT:  BACKUP > ) > SOURCE:     Compaq Computer Corporation  >  > 
 > SYMPTOM: > D > Commands similar to the following were used to successfully copy aA > Backup save set (using the DCL COPY command) from disk to tape:  > 7 >      $ MOUNT/BLOCK=32768/RECORD=32768/OVER=ID $TAPE1:  >      $ COPY/LOG $TAPE1:*.* * > D > However, when you attempt to copy that same save set from the tape1 > back to disk, you receive the following errors:  > H >      %COPY-E-OPENIN, error opening $TAPE1:[]save_set_name.bck as inputE >      -RMS-F-IRC, illegal record encountered, VBN or record number=0  > < >      Note: This error also occurs for tape to tape copies. >  >  > SOLUTION:  > H > When you intend to use the DCL command "COPY" to move Backup save setsA > to and from tape, make sure the Backup command that creates the I > save set specifies a block size of 32256 or less.  You can then use the I > block size value that you specify, or that Backup rounds up to, in your : > MOUNT command to successfully copy to and from the tape. >  >  > ANALYSIS:  > A > When copying from tape, Record Management Services (RMS) uses a G > maximum record size of 32767.  Because the size of the records on the D > tape save set are larger than the maximum record size allowed when; > copying from tape to disk, the save set cannot be copied.  > : > Note: This limitation also exists for tape to tape copy. > G > When the Backup save set was originally created on disk, the /BLOCK=n B > qualifier was specified.  The value for the /BLOCK qualifier wasB > either 32768 or a number greater than 32256 and less than 32768.G > Backup will round up the block size specified in the /BLOCK qualifier ? > to the next highest multiple of 512 if not already on a block C > boundary.  This behavior is documented in the "VMS Backup Utility 2 > Manual", April 1988, (AA-LA35A-TE), page BCK-32. > L > Note: Utilities that may be helpful in tape to tape (or disk to tape) copyL >       regardless of the block size can be found at the following web-site: >  >       http://www.decus.org   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 00:58:48 GMT 8 From: "Tom Simpson" <thomas.simpson1@nospam.comcast.net>4 Subject: Re: Best Backup Blocksize for 110SDLT Tape?/ Message-ID: <cbv1c.174948$uV3.737654@attbi_s51>   K One factor (especially with older tape drives and lower bit densities) that K could be a problem is the physical length of tape it takes to write a large G block of data.  Last time I checked, the standard distance from the EOT L marker to the physical end-of-tape is roughly 15-20 feet.  If 20 feet is notJ enough space to fit a data block, then the backup could fail.  The typicalL symptom would be the tape runs off the end of the reel (on 9 track tapes for	 example).   J The way a tape drive works (at least the way they used to work...I'm goingK way back here...) is that they attempt to finish writing the block they are H currently on, even if it is past the EOT marker.  If there is not enough; physical tape left to complete the block, the party's over.   F With the MUCH higher bit densities of today's tape drives, I think theH likelihood of that happening is very small, if it could happen at all...G This is, of course, speculation on my part triggered by first-hand (and G out-of-date) tape drive technology knowledge...  Even at 6250BPI, a 64K 0 block of data would take a lot of tape to write.K That would be roughly ((64000blocks * 512 bytes per block) / 6250 bpi) / 12  = 436 ft. ??   Regards, Tom   D "Daryl Jones" <jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message6 news:8a646952.0403022253.69a3161@posting.google.com... > Dear David J. Dachtera:  > H > I have been told by more than a couple System Manager that the maximumF > backup block size should be the same as the default backup blocksizeE > when you are backing up from disk to disk which is 32256. Any block F > size other greater than 32256 will cause the backup restore to fail.B > Thus makeing the backup useless. This isn't theory because thoseH > System Managers actually tested the backup and restores with different > blocksize for proof. > @ > Could you further explain to me or provide a reference on your( > recommendation that you have provided. > 	 > Thanks, 
 > Daryl Jones  >  > E > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in : message news:<40453492.27B758CE@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>... > > Hal Kuff wrote:  > > > F > > >     In search of best blocksize for SDLT tape at 110GB.... using MSL5026 I > > > tape library over 1gb Fibre Channel to OpenVMS ES40 type systems on  1gb A > > > Fibre Channel...... Have not seen the 50-60% improvement in  performance we* > > > expected over DLT8000/DLTIV Tape.... > > > K > > >    Can anyone reccomend an init, mount, and backup command that works  for  > > > your site... > > H > > Before you go digging that deep, check that your NSRs are configuredL > > correctly. Make sure that the SCSI cards are in the high-numbered slots,L > > not the low. That will approximately double your throughput if they were > > wrong before.  > > I > > Otherwise, the usual rules still apply: us ethe largest blocksize you I > > can live with: 65024 if you don't need to read the savesets with RMS,  > > less than 32767 if you do.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Mar 2004 13:56:21 -0700 1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) > Subject: CDs in Canada ( was Re: Support of USB Memory stick )- Message-ID: <Tt6qc05$e1YS@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>   K In article <Kcs1c.82707$ah.62100@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,  )     "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:    > M > Some moronic jusridictions (Canada) charge a levy on every blank CD because N > the music industry managed to get a bunch of bureaucrats convinced that mostN > CD's are being used to rip off the recording artists. So the levy is charged0 > on each CD, irrespective of the use of the CD. > N    I always wondered about that. If the cost of my blank CD includes a royaltyN being paid to the artists then does that give me free reign to copy music onto them?   <    Is the levy actually in effect now? How much is the levy?  P    I can still buy 20 packs of CD-Rs ( with jewel cases ) for under $20CDN, so I3 take it the levy isn't all that high if it's there.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:14:22 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>B Subject: Re: CDs in Canada ( was Re: Support of USB Memory stick )) Message-ID: <404658AF.864EB750@istop.com>    Malcolm Dunnett wrote:P >    I always wondered about that. If the cost of my blank CD includes a royaltyP > being paid to the artists then does that give me free reign to copy music onto > them?     G Technically , yes. The irony is that the artist won't see a cent of the M royalty you have paid becuse those funds go to large record companies and are - not redistributed to artists. A hige ripoff.    J The music industry now wants an ISP tax, thinking that the only use of the internet is to download music.  H Note that the precedent was blank VHS tapes that, according to the movieK industry, were used solely to illegally record and distribute movies. (They M had never heard of home movies or the practice of recording a program from TV  on a timer)   N Brace yourselves for a hard disk tax since newer VCRs now record stuff on hard disk drives.  K What they need to do is go back to film instead of video, and vinyl records  instead of CDs :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:34:16 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> B Subject: Re: CDs in Canada ( was Re: Support of USB Memory stick )' Message-ID: <40466B78.7070303@MMaz.com>    Malcolm Dunnett wrote:  L >In article <Kcs1c.82707$ah.62100@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, * >    "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:L >Some moronic jusridictions (Canada) charge a levy on every blank CD becauseM >the music industry managed to get a bunch of bureaucrats convinced that most M >CD's are being used to rip off the recording artists. So the levy is charged / >on each CD, irrespective of the use of the CD.  >  >    > O >   I always wondered about that. If the cost of my blank CD includes a royalty O >being paid to the artists then does that give me free reign to copy music onto  >them? > = >   Is the levy actually in effect now? How much is the levy?  > Q >   I can still buy 20 packs of CD-Rs ( with jewel cases ) for under $20CDN, so I 4 >take it the levy isn't all that high if it's there. >    > B That isn't a bargin.  Here in the states, you can get a 100 stack H spindle for $40 (free, if you watch for rebate coupons), and a 100 pack G of slim CD jewel cases can be bought for about $10 (again, free if you   watch for rebate coupons).    F Perhaps you should just order them over the web from the states, just ? like we can order cigars from Canada that we can't get here :-)      Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 00:54:22 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> B Subject: Re: CDs in Canada ( was Re: Support of USB Memory stick )J Message-ID: <27v1c.127297$Qg7.112713@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: > Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > 
 >> In article E >>    <Kcs1c.82707$ah.62100@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, ( >> "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:F >> Some moronic jusridictions (Canada) charge a levy on every blank CD
 >> becauseE >> the music industry managed to get a bunch of bureaucrats convinced E >> that most CD's are being used to rip off the recording artists. So  >> the levy is charged1 >> on each CD, irrespective of the use of the CD.  >> >> >>F >>   I always wondered about that. If the cost of my blank CD includesB >> a royalty being paid to the artists then does that give me free! >> reign to copy music onto them?  >>> >>   Is the levy actually in effect now? How much is the levy? >>E >>   I can still buy 20 packs of CD-Rs ( with jewel cases ) for under C >> $20CDN, so I take it the levy isn't all that high if it's there.  >> >>C > That isn't a bargin.  Here in the states, you can get a 100 stack D > spindle for $40 (free, if you watch for rebate coupons), and a 100F > pack of slim CD jewel cases can be bought for about $10 (again, free# > if you watch for rebate coupons).  >  > G > Perhaps you should just order them over the web from the states, just A > like we can order cigars from Canada that we can't get here :-)     K You  should have spoken up a bit sooner...could have brought you a box from  the factory.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 20:33:49 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> B Subject: Re: CDs in Canada ( was Re: Support of USB Memory stick )' Message-ID: <4046A39D.7090003@MMaz.com>    John Smith wrote:    >Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote:  >    >  >>Malcolm Dunnett wrote: >> >>     >>
 >>>In article E >>>   <Kcs1c.82707$ah.62100@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, ( >>>"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:F >>>Some moronic jusridictions (Canada) charge a levy on every blank CD
 >>>becauseE >>>the music industry managed to get a bunch of bureaucrats convinced E >>>that most CD's are being used to rip off the recording artists. So  >>>the levy is charged1 >>>on each CD, irrespective of the use of the CD.  >>>  >>>  >>> F >>>  I always wondered about that. If the cost of my blank CD includesB >>>a royalty being paid to the artists then does that give me free! >>>reign to copy music onto them?  >>> > >>>  Is the levy actually in effect now? How much is the levy? >>> E >>>  I can still buy 20 packs of CD-Rs ( with jewel cases ) for under C >>>$20CDN, so I take it the levy isn't all that high if it's there.  >>>  >>> 	 >>>        >>> C >>That isn't a bargin.  Here in the states, you can get a 100 stack D >>spindle for $40 (free, if you watch for rebate coupons), and a 100F >>pack of slim CD jewel cases can be bought for about $10 (again, free# >>if you watch for rebate coupons).  >> >>G >>Perhaps you should just order them over the web from the states, just A >>like we can order cigars from Canada that we can't get here :-)  >>     >> >  > L >You  should have spoken up a bit sooner...could have brought you a box from
 >the factory.  >    >  Humm :-)   --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------   Date: 3 Mar 2004 21:11:10 -0700 1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) B Subject: Re: CDs in Canada ( was Re: Support of USB Memory stick )- Message-ID: <l4vksZK0D5dF@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>   ( In article <40466B78.7070303@MMaz.com>, 0    "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:   >>R >>   I can still buy 20 packs of CD-Rs ( with jewel cases ) for under $20CDN, so I5 >>take it the levy isn't all that high if it's there.  >>   >>D > That isn't a bargin.  Here in the states, you can get a 100 stack J > spindle for $40 (free, if you watch for rebate coupons), and a 100 pack I > of slim CD jewel cases can be bought for about $10 (again, free if you   > watch for rebate coupons). >  > D    No, I didn't suspect it was any great bargain, I just grabbed theG first pack I saw at the local superstore the other day. However a quick G web search on NexTag shows a 10 pack of the same item ( FUJI 80 min CDR D with slimline jewel case ) going for $9.15 US ( $1.22CDN per CD) andC a 25 pack going for $14.98US ($0.80CDN per CD ) whic are comparable A to the $0.90CDN per CD that I paid. Of course they are cheaper in = spindles and larger quantities and with rebate coupons, etc.    H    My point was that the levy isn't all that onerous and my ( admittedlyD limited ) research would suggest the vendors may simply have lowered their prices to compensate.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 15:24:09 -0600 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> @ Subject: Destroying CDR media (Was: Support of USB Memory stick)3 Message-ID: <40464CF9.66638A33@applied-synergy.com>    Nic Clews wrote:  J > Yes. [In a certain case] the current proposal is a tape solution to moveI > relatively (less than 100 meg) small amounts of data from one system to F > another. CDR was investigated, but due to the nature of the data add- > complications to destroying the used media.   1 I thought that was what microwave ovens were for.   ? And the associated light show is an entertaining bonus.  <grin>   / Seriously, give it a try.  It does a great job.   G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:47:24 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon2 Message-ID: <6e6dnaS5vdHl4dvdRVn-uw@metrocast.net>  3 "Rick Jones" <foo@bar.baz.invalid> wrote in message ) news:iEp1c.115$nk2.22@news.cpqcorp.net...    ...   D > WRT scaling, in the abstract rather than for a specific benchmark,@ > doesn't IBM publish an rPerf metric for their pSeries systems?  C Yes, but a) I don't know if it goes all the way down to 4-processor I configurations and b) I have no idea how well its results might correlate B with TPC-C (which was the context of the discussion up until now).  G The p690 system architecture (including the on-chip support for off-MCM K accesses) seems to me likely to scale much more linearly than the Superdome J architecture.  Otherwise, I'd expect the 4-processor POWER4+ configurationB to blow the doors off the HP zx1 box rather than merely to beat it; noticeably (despite the zx1's advantage in memory latency).    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 02:07:23 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon0 Message-ID: <vbw1c.172$%R2.115@news.cpqcorp.net>  ) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: 5 > "Rick Jones" <foo@bar.baz.invalid> wrote in message + > news:iEp1c.115$nk2.22@news.cpqcorp.net... E >> WRT scaling, in the abstract rather than for a specific benchmark, A >> doesn't IBM publish an rPerf metric for their pSeries systems?   E > Yes, but a) I don't know if it goes all the way down to 4-processor  > configurations   It does seem to:  E http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/pseries/hardware/system_perf.pdf   A > and b) I have no idea how well its results might correlate with ? > TPC-C (which was the context of the discussion up until now).   @ This is what IBM has to say about the rPerf metric (from the URL? above). It reads pretty much as what one might expect when some C benchmarks do not allow estimates and a vendor does not wish to run E afoul of such rules.  As an employee of such a vendor myself, I would ; have to say similar things to keep my own backside covered.   > "The rPerf (Relative Performance) is an estimate of commercialC  processing performance. It is derived from an IBM analytical model E  which uses characteristics from IBM internal workloads, TPC and SPEC F  benchmarks. The rPerf model is not intended to represent any specificC  public benchmark results and should not be reasonably used in that D  way. The model simulates some of the system operations such as CPU,@  cache and maximum memory available. However, the model does notA  simulate disk or network I/O operations. Although the model uses F  general database and operating system parameters, it does not reflect/  specific database or AIX version or releases."   E There is also some historical mention of an older and withdrawn ROLTP & measure that rPerf suposedly replaces.  A > The p690 system architecture (including the on-chip support for B > off-MCM accesses) seems to me likely to scale much more linearly# > than the Superdome architecture.    E Which benchmarks are you using to arrive at that conclusion?  IBM has F only published SPEC rate benchmarks for 32 CPUs on the 690 at 1.7 GHz,F and nothing for lower CPU counts.  They've only published 32 way TPC-CA results. There was a pair of 1.3 GHz p690 results, 16 and 32-way.   
 rick jones --  H Wisdom Teeth are impacted, people are affected by the effects of events.F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:44:30 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon) Message-ID: <404697ED.F3B97447@istop.com>    Bill Todd wrote:I > The p690 system architecture (including the on-chip support for off-MCM M > accesses) seems to me likely to scale much more linearly than the Superdome  > architecture.   H Note that the 370 architecture doesn't have a bright future since IBM is9 porting MVS over to POWER. (or has that been cancelled ?)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:58:41 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon2 Message-ID: <hc6dndn5JNfzWNvdRVn-sA@metrocast.net>  3 "Rick Jones" <foo@bar.baz.invalid> wrote in message * news:vbw1c.172$%R2.115@news.cpqcorp.net...+ > Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:    ...   C > > The p690 system architecture (including the on-chip support for D > > off-MCM accesses) seems to me likely to scale much more linearly$ > > than the Superdome architecture. > > > Which benchmarks are you using to arrive at that conclusion?  K None:  as I said above, I'm inferring it from the architectures themselves, D plus the fact that while the local memory latency of both systems isL similar, the p690 incurs considerably less penalty for going off-module thanH Superdome does (I used to know the actual numbers, but they aren't at myK fingertips now) - because the routers are on the processor chip rather than  elsewhere on the local board..   - bill   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 06:31:24 +0000 (UTC)% From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> & Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon6 Message-ID: <slrnc4dj9l.99n.usenet@gaia.roc2.gblx.net>  2 In article <4046C790.253C5463@istop.com>, JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote: > Bill Todd wrote:J >> > Note that the 370 architecture doesn't have a bright future since IBMA >> > is porting MVS over to POWER. (or has that been cancelled ?)  >>  3 >> Nobody's talking about the 370 architecture, JF.  > F > Isn't that what the p390 systems are ?????  I realise that since theI > 370s, IBM has managed to go to 31 bit adressing (from 24), but isn't it 9 > the same assembler instructions with a few additions ??   G There are three addressing modes (due to historical growth) for current  mainframe processors:   ) 24 bit, 31 bit, *and* the current 64 bit.   I The zSeries systems are based on a 64 bit architecture that is a superset H of ESA/390. Perhaps this is the port you were thinking of? If so, it was completed a while ago.  K The zSeries 990 contains MCMs (multi-chip modules, similar to POWER4), LPAR E support, high speed interconnectivity, and a lot of other stuff you'd  expect with high end hardware.  G I'm not clear on the exact relationship between POWER and the mainframe E CPUs but it seems that there is a fair amount of common stuff between & POWER4 and the current mainframe CPUs.  K It may be partly due to the in-house reorganization IBM did a few years ago I where they ordered their engineers from various teams to collaborate more I in-house to share talent, resources, and adapt the best ideas to products A that they could adapt for their product family or to introduce an  one-size-fits-all product.  G A perfect example is the ESS (Shark) disk subsystem that was originally B designed for the mainframe but adapted with lower-end features andE qualified for lower end hardware without having to come out with four  separate disk products.   G At any rate... IBM is big on maintaining compatibility modes throughout J decades of advances in hardware (and software) so it seems rather unlikelyJ the old architectures will be dropped; more likely it will continue to runB on newer/current hardware in some sort of compatibility mode. It'sI impressive when I see a number of older mainframe programs, some about 40 H years old, continue to compile and execute correctly on modern hardware.  I VMS is nearly as good... I say 'nearly' because there are RTL lib changes I that sometimes breaks application behavior and VMS hasn't been around for D the same 40+ years... but it's still pretty good where you can oftenJ recompile programs from much older VMS versions and still have it run well today on modern hardware.   I So getting back to this thread... I honestly don't think that IBM's going H to suddenly drop older architectures because it would be a major sellingJ point for their competitors, and IBM prides themselves on giving customersI a good feeling of 'can plan on their current apps working for many years, H even across hardware families' -- which is a major selling point for theH mainframe market. IBM would find a way to make older stuff work on newer. hardware, and it seems that they have done so.  J If you ever want to find *the* definitive mainframe information, you couldI ask one of the long-time IBM mainframe people... such as Mr. Lynn Wheeler B (now retired) whom typically hangs out in comp.arch and is full ofE interesting details about the evolution of the mainframe hardware and . software, and would know this stuff very well.  3 Also: http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/    -Dan  E Disclaimer: I don't work for any computer manufacturer or vendor. :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:04:59 -0800 0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>* Subject: Re: MUMPS/DSM/M for OpenVMS Alpha' Message-ID: <4045e60c$1@cpns1.saic.com>    David J. Dachtera wrote: > Wesley Dunnahoo wrote: > E >>I am setting up OpenVMS on my PWS 600au under the hobbyist license. H >>I've been approached about some programming opportunities for OpenVMS.I >>They require MUMPS experience that I don't have (yet).  I'm looking for F >>a version of MUMPS, DSM (Digital Standard Mumps) or M (whatever it'sH >>called now) that I can load on hobbyist system in order to learn MUMPSI >>programming/database.  I've found several good looking web sites on the C >>language and on learning it.  I found some versions available for H >>various UNIX/Linux platforms but have no idea about where to get a VMSI >>version.  I found mention of InterSystems buying DSM from Digital in or 0 >>around 1990 but their site doesn't mention it. >>L >>Does anyone know if a VMS Alpha version exists and how much it would cost? >  > E > Unless its REALLY Digital Standard MUMPS (DSM) or an existing MUMPS 0 > application on InterSystems MUMPS, be advised: > G > InterSystems renamed "MUMPS" and now calls it Cache' (say "cash AY"). I > The language is now very BASIC-like in appearance, although the current , > Cache' still supports existing MUMPS code.  F When "GQ Bob" decided that digital needed to divest itself of much of I the software that had once defined digital, the DSM development team was  E among those given the ax.  The DSM group shopped around and tried to  G find a buyer but could find none other than Intersystems who was their  3 main competitor (and the source of much bad blood).   G Once Intersystems owned DSM (who was their only real competition) they  I began to systematically buy up the MUMPS marketplace until there were no  ? other vendors left (I know at least some other vendors sold to  D Intersystems but I don't know if most did or if their market simply F disappeared).  Once MUMPS became a one-company language, that company A also started changing the language and all efforts to maintain a  H language standard began to lose their efficacy.  Effective Jan 1, 2002, F the ANSI accreditation of the MTA was voluntarily withdrawn and MUMPS G ceased to be an ANSI standard language.  The last language standard to   exist was X11.1-1995.    > F > Also, existing documentation on the MUMPS langauge is becoming a bitH > rare. One of my vendors holds it almost a trade-secret. If you do findJ > something coherent and understandable, please post the URL (or book name* > and publisher) here. I'd like to see it.  I There are folks trying to keep the MUMPS language alive and you can find  ? some of their efforts on SourceForge.  A search of the web for  - X11.1-1995 may also turn up something useful.   E If you already have a familiarity with the MUMPS language and simply  > want a reference with examples, I recommend the following URL:  1 http://www.jacquardsystems.com/Examples/index.htm   H Also, if you still have old copies of the CONDIST lying around, the DSM I Language Reference Manual would be a good resource.  I know it was still  ? included in the CONDIST at least through the beginning of 2000.   
 Mark Berryman    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Mar 2004 17:04:20 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski), Subject: Re: Not meaning to feed Andrew.....= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0403031704.5de60358@posting.google.com>    Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c2559b$hng$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > E > You don't seem to get it, Rob and Bobs mistakes have been corrected C > regularly but that doesn't stop them rolling out exactly the same F > warmed over argument a few months later. Few newsgroups have postersD > so wrong and so persistently wrong. The closest you get to Rob andC > Bob etc's behaviour in other groups is when the FreeBSD and Linux  > folks get going. > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison   6 you do get it, but can't or don't want to admit it ...4 I have provided countless examples as have others on3 the security and stability of OpenVMS ... there are 6 studies (techwise) and real life trials (defcon9) that6 prove this along with real life testimonies, including4 mine of 19 years ... but all these mean nothing?  In6 your world, we are all liars, techwise is techfoolish,6 and defcon9 are a bunch of 1st graders ... everyone is6 a liar, and you have come to save the day ... well you6 are at it, you still haven't responded to the IBM guys5 post about VMS vs unix/linux security ... but alas, I 5 suppose IBM gurus don't have a clue about VMS either! 0 Thank goodness you are here Andrew to set us all straight ... :)    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Mar 2004 20:35:21 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OpenVMS Feelings : Message-ID: <c25fi8$1oodkr$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  = In article <5ee1d1b7.0403031221.4c91d7ac@posting.google.com>,10 	phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) writes:l > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<c24tmk$1pbod2$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>...@ >> In article <5ee1d1b7.0403030631.7ee3ee2d@posting.google.com>,3 >> 	phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) writes:M >> > jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) wrote in message news:<8a646952.0403021344.6946aaf5@posting.google.com>...  >> >> Dear Phillip Thayer: >> >> A >> I thought you must be talking about CSLG although you posted a D >> URL for the Edu Program.  Cheap is a matter of opinion.  AlthoughA >> the University Administration still uses VMS they dropped CSLG F >> several years ago.  Base Licenses and CSLG cost more than my entireF >> computing equipment budget for the department.  Explain to me how IC >> would sell this kind of expenditure to the Administration?  What 4 >> exactly is the value they are going to see in it? >> e > F > The CSLG is only a part of the Educational program available.  There> > are several programs available.  CSLG is the better of them. >  >> U@ >> A lot less than used to and that number will continue to drop >> in the future.  >> p > E > Maybe out of poor marketing to the Universities and Colleges by HP.a  & Well, that goes without saying!!!  :-)   > D >> And even with the 40% discount it would cost more for one machineD >> than an entire lab of PC's.  Like it or not, everyone knows which! >> purchase would win that fight.  >>   > F > Well, I hardly expect the LAB PC's to be switched out for OpenVMS or? > Tru64 Unix machines.  But for backend systems it saves money.1  ? What exactly is a "backend machine" in an academic environment?n   > E >> Minimal is a totally meaningless value.  We have a license with MS6C >> that gives us all the OSes and all the development tools for not E >> only as many machines as we choose to install but also for faculty F >> and even students machines.  And yes, they get to take it with themH >> when they leave, legally!!  It cost less than one single base licenseE >> for a VAX. (Yes, I meant VAX.)  It's time to face the facts.  EvenoF >> if HP made a license like the Hobbyist program that allowed any andF >> all, unlimited use for any academic purpose for VMS and all layeredE >> products it would still be an uphill battle trying to get VMS backeC >> into edu.  It was a long slow process letting it fade out of the E >> edu world, it would be longer and slower trying to get it back in.  > F > LAB PC's will probably always remain on Windows until a market shareF > is obtained by another OS.  If they want to take that with them whenE > they leave, more power to them.  What I have seen the CSLG used fordF > was not the LAB's bur the Administrative support systems and backend > DB servers.  s  @ Trust me, the administration here is still done on VMS machines.A Not that anyone outside the computer room could tell.  But we arelD not talking about administration, that's business and not education.C The problem under discussion is how to get VMS back into education. B Back into the classroom.  Back into the hands of students who willE then go out into the business world with the knowledge, not only that F there is an alternative to Windows but with experience with an example of a real good alternative.p  @ >             If your institute is still running VAXen for those@ > systems then maybe you should talk to HP about the EducationalF > trade-in programs they have for situations like that.  I know I haveB > priced AlphaServers for eductaional systems and been able to getD > quotes for ES47's at under $80,000.  from what it sounds like thisH > would be out of your budget.  So let's say a DS10 to replace the VAXenH > (Which according to the performance charts should out-perform any VAX)F > which would end up being in the $20,000 TO $30,000 range brand new. H > If that isn't low enough, try one of the used resellers and get a used, > system for anywhere from $5,000 to $15,000  B Once again, you are talking about something totally different fromA what the rest of this thread was about.  Believe it or not, a VAX ? is perfectly good for making students familiar with VMS and thedE cost is pretty much $0.00.  I had a bunch here from my own collectionkG that were covered by CSLG when it was still paid for by the University.oE When the University dropped CSLG all my machines lost their licenses. F My department does not have the money to license any of these machinesE and being as I was the only one willing to even work with making themaG available, well, you can probably guess the result.  I kept them around7F and even ran one or two with the Hobbyist License for my own fun for aH while but recently it was decided that the space they were taking up wasC too valuable and they brought nothing to the table and so they wenttB back to my basement.  Even if HP suddenly came to their senses andB created a workable edu program I am not sure how much luck I would have getting them back in here.s   > D > But, then again it sounds like the battle has already been lost atD > your institute and people have resigned themselve to the fact that! > OpenVMS is headed out the door.   A You seem to think we are unique.  VMS lost most of the edu marketiA long ago.  Sadly, even with the efforts of many people here thereaE seems little real interest in getting it back.  Every day the chanceso get slimmer.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   c   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Mar 2004 12:21:08 -08004- From: phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer)i Subject: Re: OpenVMS Feelings = Message-ID: <5ee1d1b7.0403031221.4c91d7ac@posting.google.com>l  j bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<c24tmk$1pbod2$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>...? > In article <5ee1d1b7.0403030631.7ee3ee2d@posting.google.com>,I2 > 	phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) writes: > > jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) wrote in message news:<8a646952.0403021344.6946aaf5@posting.google.com>... > >> Dear Phillip Thayer:r > >> l@ > I thought you must be talking about CSLG although you posted aC > URL for the Edu Program.  Cheap is a matter of opinion.  Although @ > the University Administration still uses VMS they dropped CSLGE > several years ago.  Base Licenses and CSLG cost more than my entire E > computing equipment budget for the department.  Explain to me how I B > would sell this kind of expenditure to the Administration?  What3 > exactly is the value they are going to see in it?- >   D The CSLG is only a part of the Educational program available.  There< are several programs available.  CSLG is the better of them.   > ? > A lot less than used to and that number will continue to drop1 > in the future. >   C Maybe out of poor marketing to the Universities and Colleges by HP.t  C > And even with the 40% discount it would cost more for one machine C > than an entire lab of PC's.  Like it or not, everyone knows whiche  > purchase would win that fight. >   D Well, I hardly expect the LAB PC's to be switched out for OpenVMS or= Tru64 Unix machines.  But for backend systems it saves money.c  D > Minimal is a totally meaningless value.  We have a license with MSB > that gives us all the OSes and all the development tools for notD > only as many machines as we choose to install but also for facultyE > and even students machines.  And yes, they get to take it with themrG > when they leave, legally!!  It cost less than one single base license D > for a VAX. (Yes, I meant VAX.)  It's time to face the facts.  EvenE > if HP made a license like the Hobbyist program that allowed any and@E > all, unlimited use for any academic purpose for VMS and all layeredsD > products it would still be an uphill battle trying to get VMS backB > into edu.  It was a long slow process letting it fade out of theD > edu world, it would be longer and slower trying to get it back in.  D LAB PC's will probably always remain on Windows until a market shareD is obtained by another OS.  If they want to take that with them whenC they leave, more power to them.  What I have seen the CSLG used fornD was not the LAB's bur the Administrative support systems and backend? DB servers.  If your institute is still running VAXen for those > systems then maybe you should talk to HP about the EducationalD trade-in programs they have for situations like that.  I know I have@ priced AlphaServers for eductaional systems and been able to getB quotes for ES47's at under $80,000.  from what it sounds like thisF would be out of your budget.  So let's say a DS10 to replace the VAXenF (Which according to the performance charts should out-perform any VAX)D which would end up being in the $20,000 TO $30,000 range brand new. F If that isn't low enough, try one of the used resellers and get a used* system for anywhere from $5,000 to $15,000  B But, then again it sounds like the battle has already been lost atB your institute and people have resigned themselve to the fact that OpenVMS is headed out the door.f   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:23:06 -0500$ From: Mike Duffy <Duffy@process.com>* Subject: OSU HTTPD and TRACE vulnerability> Message-ID: <63D30D6E10CFD11190A90000F805FE860492B4AD@LESPAUL>  5 I posted this question on the OSU server mailing listn8 about three weeks ago and didn't see a response, so I'll try the larger group here.  6 Just checking to see if the OSU server (V3.9B, V3.10A)% has the vunerability described below.o  9 I assume not, because I've seen no mention of it on c.o.v > or the OSU list.  I also see no mention on the OSU web-daemon 9 page, nor do I see any configuration options relating to s: disabling the method in the .CONF files.  I further expect6 that it's based on some type of buffer overflow, which< VMS is often kind enough to hold down to a dull roar anyway.   Here's the description:k! ----------[begin]----------------dE Multiple vendor Web servers, including Microsoft Internet Information G Services (IIS) and Apache HTTP Server, could allow a remote attacker toeH obtain sensitive configuration about the Web server using the HTTP TRACEF method. The HTTP TRACE method as described in RFC 2616 of the HTTP 1.1I standard is typically used for debugging and network analysis purposes toeL request the contents of HTTP request messages received by the Web server. OnD Web servers with HTTP TRACE support enabled, a remote attacker couldI leverage this functionality with known cross-site scripting and other WebcE browser vulnerabilities to obtain sensitive information about the WebfE server, including server cookies and authentication information. ThiseH information could then be used by the attacker to launch further attacks  against the affected Web server." ----------[end]-------------------   Thanks,a
 Mike Duffy   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:23:40 +0100, From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl>/ Subject: Re: Pathworks-32 and Windaube XPrience : Message-ID: <c25err$1mtufr$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>  1 "Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> schreef in berichtn- news:40463b05$0$2474$626a14ce@news.free.fr...  > Hans ? >  > D. >c > Didier Morandi wrote:nK > > Who succeeded to have PCSA and XP work together fine? Mainly the DECnetn
 > > stuff. > >C > > Thanks.  > >t > > D. > >  >oI Not sure whether you mean me Didier, but I run DECnet and Pathworks undereL Windows98. Mainly because I was under the impression that DECnet and WindowsE 2000 don't go together. IIRC W2k (and thus its cousin WX) use the MACaI address for all kinds of purposes, like licensing. DECnet changes the MAClK address: it reflects the DECnet address. Move the DECnet address to another I PC and you'd be able to move the licenses without Microsoft being able to E check the platform change. No way Bill Gee would approve that, right?hH Seriously, if I could download a recent version of Pathworks (I have 7.1  only) then I'd check it for you.   Hans   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:33:02 +0100+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>j/ Subject: Re: Pathworks-32 and Windaube XPrience : Message-ID: <c25mev$1pb9bu$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>  1 "Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> schreef in bericht - news:40464741$0$2460$626a14ce@news.free.fr...  > Hans Vlems wrote:  > G > > Not sure whether you mean me Didier, but I run DECnet and Pathworks  under8H > > Windows98. Mainly because I was under the impression that DECnet and Windows,I > > 2000 don't go together. IIRC W2k (and thus its cousin WX) use the MACRI > > address for all kinds of purposes, like licensing. DECnet changes thec MAC9G > > address: it reflects the DECnet address. Move the DECnet address tor anotheraJ > > PC and you'd be able to move the licenses without Microsoft being able toI > > check the platform change. No way Bill Gee would approve that, right? L > > Seriously, if I could download a recent version of Pathworks (I have 7.1$ > > only) then I'd check it for you. >t > T'was you.I > I have 7.1 too and the relnotes sez "no XP". I mean they do not say "XPdK > supported", and "it don't work no more"... well, it does not work at all:u "LocalK > network is unreachable" trying to DECnet copy files. I know, I can do FTPk butn > this is another issue. >iE > As there are only five "tools" available in the Windows Start Menu:t >h > DECnet file transfer > Event logger > Password assistant
 > uninstaller  > and Information Shelfa > 7 > I do not see how I could make that network reachable.  > Maybe by RTFM? > :-)l >a > D. >   F My attempt at clarifying why it won't work still stands I'm afraid. IfI DECnet cannot change the MAC address then there's no way it can advertise,K its address to the network. So it remains invisible to the other nodes: the  network is unreachable.rB RTFM is no option for a product that is not desgned to do what you apparently want....eI Well, IIRC there is a newer version of Pathworks available which seems to K support Windows 2000 and possibly XP. I no longer work for a shop that runsfF VMS or DECnet so I cannot easily obtain a recent version of Pathworks.3 Any ideas on getting a recent version of Pathworks?e   Hans   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:48:03 +0000 (UTC)6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)/ Subject: Re: Pathworks-32 and Windaube XPriencec1 Message-ID: <newscache$26v0uh$rqz1$1@news.sil.at>   Y In article <404591da$0$24945$626a14ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:nO >Who succeeded to have PCSA and XP work together fine? Mainly the DECnet stuff.    I haven't tried.5 But PATHWORKS-32 V7.3 supports XP, so it should work.u And PW32 V7.4 is now current.C  , 	http://www.openvms.digital.com/pathworks32/   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER>% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Mar 2004 15:00:51 -0800r7 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)t Subject: Sun On The Run?< Message-ID: <8a646952.0403031500.7cf9b7f@posting.google.com>  $ Home > Technology > Enterprise Tech   , Linux  Sun On The Run? # Daniel Lyons, 03.03.04, 9:52 AM ET    C NEW YORK - Gerry Louw is a longtime fan of Sun Microsystems and itsoA powerful Unix-based computers. In fact, he has been running Sun'seA pricey machines at various companies for more than ten years. Yeth? today, Louw, chief information officer of VMS, a 1,000-employee A company in New York, is ripping out hundreds of Sun servers in 16eC locations and replacing them with inexpensive servers running Intelg. processors and Linux, a free operating system.   For more of this article:c  P http://www.forbes.com/technology/2004/03/03/cz_dl_0303linux.html?partner=newscom  + As you can see, the article is from FORBES.h   Regards, Daryl Jonesw   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Mar 2004 16:35:42 GMTC< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)( Subject: Re: Support of USB Memory stick0 Message-ID: <c251gu$cps$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  p In article <c2518m$1oel9f$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>, Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> writes:1 >On 2004-03-03 11:21, "Christoph Gartmann" wrote:e >0 >> [...] >> MI >> These sticks are the real replacement of the former floppy disk. EverycL >> platform supports it, the file format is simple, usage it simple. Tell me5 >> what is better for the purpose of exchanging data.> >  >CD-RW?t  N Which computer has a CD-RW? All newer computers have an USB port. In addition,L with CD-RW you have to deal with file systems. These pen-drives have all the same file-system.f   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452b  ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germanyg9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.htmls   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Mar 2004 14:44:33 -0600p- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a( Subject: Re: Support of USB Memory stick3 Message-ID: <h6Bc9AQoS3th@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  o In article <c251gu$cps$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) writes:   P > Which computer has a CD-RW? All newer computers have an USB port. In addition,N > with CD-RW you have to deal with file systems. These pen-drives have all the > same file-system.   3 And does that file system preserve RMS attributes ?j   ------------------------------   Date: 3 MAR 2004 22:42:55 GMTg+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> ( Subject: Re: Support of USB Memory stick1 Message-ID: <3MAR04.22425575@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>   B In a previous article, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote: > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > > & > > Do you have a requirement for one? > > N > > We have some code, but it isn't shipping or supported.  By letting us knowN > > that there are real customer requirements, we can determine if it is worth+ > > qualifying the logic and supporting it.I >  sJ > Yes. [In a certain case] the current proposal is a tape solution to moveI > relatively (less than 100 meg) small amounts of data from one system to F > another. CDR was investigated, but due to the nature of the data add- > complications to destroying the used media.3  I We use a heavy-duty paper shredder for cds.  Our security folks are happy:G with that for the kinds of data we have on cds - ymmv.  Be sure to wearc safety glasses, though.<   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV H Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2004 01:16:15 GMTm From: healyzh@aracnet.comn( Subject: Re: Support of USB Memory stick+ Message-ID: <c2600v0isv@enews3.newsguy.com>w  , Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:   > how about a network?  4 There are lots of systems that can't be on networks.   		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 19:43:35 -0700l% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> ( Subject: Re: Support of USB Memory stickB Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20040303194249.01f9d208@raptor.psccos.com>  G In my experience, a system that can't be on a network wouldn't DREAM of L allowing you to take a pocketable media out of the office to another system., Just my experience, with some work in DOD...  0 At 06:16 PM 3/3/2004, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:- >Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:p >r > > how about a network? >@5 >There are lots of systems that can't be on networks.a >> >                 Zane   ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:32:50 -0500h3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> ( Subject: Re: Support of USB Memory stick0 Message-ID: <WuednXEANY34LNvdRVn-vw@comcast.com>  D Try measuring it as sales lost because VMS can't do things that any E recent Windows, MacOS,  Solaris or Linux system can do!  Things like cH burning CD-R CD-RW, DVD+/-R for instance.  To the extent it can be done H it's because customers "rolled their own", principally a customer named ? Heuser-Hofman I believe.  AFAIK it's not  a  supported feature.E   D I know you have limited resources but which came first, the limited > resources or the reluctance to support  emerging technologies?   Forrest Kenney wrote:i  E >1) So far all we have are it would be nice not a business case.  We mF >   need to know how may systems sales hinge on having this.  That is E >   what we need to make a business case.  Having said that a subset  C >   of USB mass storage is on the to do list.  We have no plans to s" >   support QIC tapes or floppies. >e >s >  a >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 06:52:43 GMTa0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>( Subject: Re: Support of USB Memory stick0 Message-ID: <%mA1c.453854$I06.5140279@attbi_s01>   John Smith wrote:e   (snip)  M > Some moronic jusridictions (Canada) charge a levy on every blank CD because N > the music industry managed to get a bunch of bureaucrats convinced that mostN > CD's are being used to rip off the recording artists. So the levy is charged0 > on each CD, irrespective of the use of the CD.  C In the US I believe they only charge this on Music CD-R's for audio C CD record decks.   If I want to duplicate the CD's I write on my CDoA recorder, I have to use a computer CD-R drive because of the SCMS. system.u  > Now, would I rather have cheaper CD-R's or prescription drugs?B I don't know about that one.  (A popular topic in the US is buying6 cheaper (often US made) prescription drugs in Canada.)   -- glen9   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 20:25:30 +0000d% From: Alan Fay <alan.fay@veritas.com> ) Subject: RE: upgrade path to Alpha 7.3...m4 Message-ID: <c25f12$3pb$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   > Date: 2004-03-03 06:33:52 PSTn  > From: smitty (andrew@sp32.com)' > Subject: upgrade path to Alpha 7.3...a > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms- > M > Can anyone tell me if upgrading a 7.1-2 alpha to 7.3 alpha is a valid path?d >  > The 7.3 documentation notes:L > "Upgrades are supported from Version 6.1, 6.2-xxx, 7.0, 7.1, or 7.2-xxx of- > the COmpaq OpenVMS Alpha operating system."e >  > Does this include 7.1-2? >  > andrew > Software Partners, Inc.l > andrew@sp32.com> > www.softwarepartners.com > 978-887-6409 >      Andrew,n  = This works fine. I recently upgraded one of our 7.1-2 Alpha'se; to 7.3. I had to upgrade the firmware, so I applied the 6.4e firmware update CD-ROM.m   Alan Fay VERITAS Software Corporation Roseville Engineeringa   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 00:26:16 GMTf+ From: Ryan Moore <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org>t: Subject: User-written system service, how to protect data?; Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0403031556100.5032@jaipur.local>w  G We have an application where I'm exploring using a user-written system oI service.  The overall problem I'm trying to solve is that we're making a .I change to our programming libraries where whenever we use one of our I/O :D calls, we need to get a system lock so that the library can do some B new synchronization (needed across all users, across the cluster).  I Anyway, we have lots of programs that will use our library.  And we want sI to let non-prived users run these programs.  But you need SYSLCK priv in eA order for our library routine to get the lock we need.  So every vK program will need to be installed with SYSLCK.  That's not going to work.   K Instead, I want to write user-written system services that will handle the  K lock routines on behalf of the I/O routines.   I was planning on having my fE system services run in executive mode, since I don't need to access  d kernel mode.  K The problem I'm having is that these lock routines will need to store some rE context information (like the lockID, etc.) that is private to these SI priveleged routines.  I want to protect this context data from user-mode AF access.  The LINKer manual says if I use the /PROTECT qualifier, then F all code and data in my shared image will be protected from user-mode F access.  This doesn't seem to be happening.  If I leak the pointer to H the private data area out of my routines, I find I can still modify the G structure from user-mode.  Not good;  I want the data protected.  What  J magic do I have to tell the linker to make the 'my_data_area' struct such 6 that it cannot be read or written from user-mode code?  J I've tried declaring the my_data_area as a static struct.  That didn't do 
 the trick.  : If I can't do this, then how can these protected routines A store context information privately that cannot be accessed from p
 user-mode?  J The output from my test program indicates my routines are running in exec J mode.  The processor status register is 01011 which says 'prev mode=user', 'curr mode=exec'.a  I I have code examples that are based on SYS$EXAMPLES:UWSS*.* on the Alpha.v   Thanks for any help... -Ryana   ----------------------------	 MYUWSS.C:    #include <builtins.h>i #include <plvdef.h>u #include <prdef.h> #include <ssdef.h>  & /* this is what I want protected... */ struct {t         int value;         int value2;i } my_data_area;n   int     uwss_set_value(),n         uwss_get_value(),          uwss_get_pointer();  int     rundown_handler();   int (*(exec_table[]))() =  {r         uwss_set_value,e         uwss_get_value,          uwss_get_pointer,n };   int  exec_flags [] = y {e
         0,
         0,
         0, };  ; #define EXEC_ROUTINE_COUNT sizeof(exec_table)/sizeof(int *)  #define KERNEL_ROUTINE_COUNT 0   #ifdef __ALPHA #pragma extern_model savee2 #pragma extern_model strict_refdef "USER_SERVICES" #endif" extern const PLV user_services = {*         PLV$C_TYP_CMOD,         /* type */-         0,                      /* version */e	         {d:         {KERNEL_ROUTINE_COUNT,  /* # of kernel routines */8         EXEC_ROUTINE_COUNT,     /* # of exec routines */9         0,                      /* kernel routine list */p7         exec_table,             /* exec routine list */'<         rundown_handler,        /* kernel rundown handler */:         rundown_handler,        /* exec rundown handler */7         0,                      /* no RMS dispatcher */ /         0,           /* kernel routine flags */o8         exec_flags}             /* exec routine flags */	         }s
         }; #ifdef __ALPHA #pragma extern_model restore #endif   int uwss_set_value(int val)n {e!         my_data_area.value = val;i           return SS$_NORMAL; }n  0 int uwss_get_value(int *val, int **ptr, int *ps) {1         unsigned int ps_temp;s            ps_temp = __PAL_RD_PS();6         if (__PAL_PROBEW(ptr, sizeof(unsigned int *), 1                 (ps_temp & PR$M_PS_PRVMOD)) == 0)4	         {0"                 return SS$_ACCVIO;	         }i  4         if (__PAL_PROBEW(val, sizeof(unsigned int), 1                 (ps_temp & PR$M_PS_PRVMOD)) == 0)c	         {:"                 return SS$_ACCVIO;	         }u  3         if (__PAL_PROBEW(ps, sizeof(unsigned int),  1                 (ps_temp & PR$M_PS_PRVMOD)) == 0)t	         { "                 return SS$_ACCVIO;	         }I  "         *val = my_data_area.value;#         *ptr = &my_data_area.value;a         *ps = ps_temp;           return SS$_NORMAL; }n   int uwss_get_pointer(int **ptr)o {a         unsigned int ps_temp;e            ps_temp = __PAL_RD_PS();6         if (__PAL_PROBEW(ptr, sizeof(unsigned int *), 1                 (ps_temp & PR$M_PS_PRVMOD)) == 0)x	         {b"                 return SS$_ACCVIO;	         }s  #         *ptr = &my_data_area.value;u           return SS$_NORMAL; }r   int rundown_handler()d {n     return SS$_NORMAL; }a   -------------------------------x
 USE_MYUWSS.C:c   #include <stdio.h> #include <stsdef.h>L #include <lib$routines.h>S   int uwss_set_value(int val);1 int uwss_get_value(int *val, int **ptr, int *ps);n   main() {n         int status;c         int *theptr;         int theval = 3;e         int theps = 0;         char answer[80];  (         status = uwss_set_value(theval);)         if (!$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS(status))d	         {e!                 lib$stop(status); 	         }a           theval = 0;t  :         status = uwss_get_value(&theval, &theptr, &theps);)         if (!$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS(status)) 	         {y!                 lib$stop(status);n	         }w  I         printf("val = %d, ptr = %p ps=%08x\ncontinue? ", theval, theptr, I theps);m           scanf("%s", answer);   /* Why isn't this an ACCVIO? */s           theval = *theptr;S  1         printf("wow! the value is %d\n", theval);t   /* Why isn't this an ACCVIO? */s           *theptr = 24;b           theval = 0; :         status = uwss_get_value(&theval, &theptr, &theps);)         if (!$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS(status)) 	         {d!                 lib$stop(status);r	         }aJ         printf("val = %d, ptr = %p, ps=%08x\ncontinue? ", theval, theptr,  theps);            scanf("%s", answer); }o ---------------------- The build procedure:  , $ CC MYUWSS.c+SYS$LIBRARY:SYS$LIB_C /LIBRARYH $ link/protect/share/full/cross/notrace/sysexe/nosyslib/map myuwss.obj,- myuwss.opt/opt GSMATCH=LEQUAL,1,1 SYMBOL_VECTOR = ( - 6                 UWSS_SET_VALUE          = PROCEDURE, -6                 UWSS_GET_VALUE          = PROCEDURE, -5                 UWSS_GET_POINTER        = PROCEDURE -s                 ) # PSECT=USER_SERVICES,VEC,NOWRT,NOEXEg COLLECT=PLV,USER_SERVICES  $! $ cc use_myuwss.cn  $ link use_myuwss,sys$input:/opt myuwss/share   -----------------  The output:f   $ copy myuwss.exe sys$library:;i: $ install add sys$library:myuwss.exe/open/share/head/prote $ run use_myuwss  val = 3, ptr = 72000 ps=0000000b continue? yu wow! the value is 3e" val = 24, ptr = 72000, ps=0000000b continue? ys' $ install remove sys$library:myuwss.exea ----------------   Thanks for any help.   -RyanI   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 22:04:20 -0500g* From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>> Subject: Re: User-written system service, how to protect data?9 Message-ID: <fYw1c.30748$Tn.23776@bignews5.bellsouth.net>t   Ryan Moore wrote:e  I > We have an application where I'm exploring using a user-written system oK > service.  The overall problem I'm trying to solve is that we're making a nK > change to our programming libraries where whenever we use one of our I/O  F > calls, we need to get a system lock so that the library can do some D > new synchronization (needed across all users, across the cluster). > K > Anyway, we have lots of programs that will use our library.  And we want  K > to let non-prived users run these programs.  But you need SYSLCK priv in  C > order for our library routine to get the lock we need.  So every HM > program will need to be installed with SYSLCK.  That's not going to work.  iM > Instead, I want to write user-written system services that will handle the  M > lock routines on behalf of the I/O routines.   I was planning on having my hG > system services run in executive mode, since I don't need to access  a > kernel mode.    D Hmmm.... Can somebody refresh me on why a shareable image cannot be L installed with privileges if a program that is linked against the shareable K image isn't installed as a known image?  I'm very familiar with installing  I an image as a known image, but I vaguely recall something dimly from the uJ past about doing this with a shareable image such that regular non-priv'd H programs could call routines in the library that then ran with elevated K privs.  Darn, but I get to disliking it when memory fails me... and all of :L the OpenVMS docs for this subject that I have are packed away and cannot be " referred to right now.... Arggggh!     -- 7 Chuck Choppo  8 ChuckChopp (at) rtfmcsi (dot) com http://www.rtfmcsi.com1                                    ICQ # 22321532s@ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax4 Greer, SC  29651                  800 774 0718 pagerC                                    8007740718 (at) skytel (dot) comi  , Do not send me unsolicited commercial email.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:28:41 -05009 From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <jgemignanino@adelphiano.net>f> Subject: Re: User-written system service, how to protect data?1 Message-ID: <KridnTJhmq_wP9vd4p2dnA@adelphia.com>d  8 "Ryan Moore" <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org> wrote in message5 news:Pine.LNX.4.58.0403031556100.5032@jaipur.local... H > We have an application where I'm exploring using a user-written systemJ > service.  The overall problem I'm trying to solve is that we're making aJ > change to our programming libraries where whenever we use one of our I/OE > calls, we need to get a system lock so that the library can do sometD > new synchronization (needed across all users, across the cluster). >oJ > Anyway, we have lots of programs that will use our library.  And we wantJ > to let non-prived users run these programs.  But you need SYSLCK priv inB > order for our library routine to get the lock we need.  So everyK > program will need to be installed with SYSLCK.  That's not going to work.sL > Instead, I want to write user-written system services that will handle theL > lock routines on behalf of the I/O routines.   I was planning on having myE > system services run in executive mode, since I don't need to accesse > kernel mode. >vL > The problem I'm having is that these lock routines will need to store someF > context information (like the lockID, etc.) that is private to theseJ > priveleged routines.  I want to protect this context data from user-modeG > access.  The LINKer manual says if I use the /PROTECT qualifier, thenhG > all code and data in my shared image will be protected from user-modenG > access.  This doesn't seem to be happening.  If I leak the pointer tooI > the private data area out of my routines, I find I can still modify the>H > structure from user-mode.  Not good;  I want the data protected.  WhatK > magic do I have to tell the linker to make the 'my_data_area' struct suchd8 > that it cannot be read or written from user-mode code? >>K > I've tried declaring the my_data_area as a static struct.  That didn't doA > the trick. >b; > If I can't do this, then how can these protected routineseB > store context information privately that cannot be accessed from > user-mode? >tK > The output from my test program indicates my routines are running in execiL > mode.  The processor status register is 01011 which says 'prev mode=user', > 'curr mode=exec'.i >dK > I have code examples that are based on SYS$EXAMPLES:UWSS*.* on the Alpha.B >w > Thanks for any help... > -Ryana >n > ---------------------------- > MYUWSS.C:b >  > #include <builtins.h>o > #include <plvdef.h>a > #include <prdef.h> > #include <ssdef.h> > ( > /* this is what I want protected... */ > struct > {  >         int value; >         int value2;r > } my_data_area;  >W > int     uwss_set_value(),t >         uwss_get_value(),a >         uwss_get_pointer();f > int     rundown_handler(); >V > int (*(exec_table[]))() =n > {e >         uwss_set_value,t >         uwss_get_value,n >         uwss_get_pointer,t > }; >  > int  exec_flags [] = > {d >         0, >         0, >         0, > }; > = > #define EXEC_ROUTINE_COUNT sizeof(exec_table)/sizeof(int *)n  > #define KERNEL_ROUTINE_COUNT 0 >b > #ifdef __ALPHA > #pragma extern_model saven4 > #pragma extern_model strict_refdef "USER_SERVICES" > #endif$ > extern const PLV user_services = {, >         PLV$C_TYP_CMOD,         /* type *// >         0,                      /* version */e >         {e< >         {KERNEL_ROUTINE_COUNT,  /* # of kernel routines */: >         EXEC_ROUTINE_COUNT,     /* # of exec routines */; >         0,                      /* kernel routine list */t9 >         exec_table,             /* exec routine list */t> >         rundown_handler,        /* kernel rundown handler */< >         rundown_handler,        /* exec rundown handler */9 >         0,                      /* no RMS dispatcher */p1 >         0,           /* kernel routine flags */d: >         exec_flags}             /* exec routine flags */ >         }e >         }; > #ifdef __ALPHA > #pragma extern_model restore > #endif >w > int uwss_set_value(int val)  > {t# >         my_data_area.value = val;o >o >         return SS$_NORMAL; > }  >o2 > int uwss_get_value(int *val, int **ptr, int *ps) > {s >         unsigned int ps_temp;  >u" >         ps_temp = __PAL_RD_PS();7 >         if (__PAL_PROBEW(ptr, sizeof(unsigned int *),P3 >                 (ps_temp & PR$M_PS_PRVMOD)) == 0)e >         {I$ >                 return SS$_ACCVIO; >         }e >a5 >         if (__PAL_PROBEW(val, sizeof(unsigned int),e3 >                 (ps_temp & PR$M_PS_PRVMOD)) == 0)d >         {r$ >                 return SS$_ACCVIO; >         }a > 4 >         if (__PAL_PROBEW(ps, sizeof(unsigned int),3 >                 (ps_temp & PR$M_PS_PRVMOD)) == 0)n >         {o$ >                 return SS$_ACCVIO; >         }n >e$ >         *val = my_data_area.value;% >         *ptr = &my_data_area.value;  >         *ps = ps_temp; >e >         return SS$_NORMAL; > }e >o! > int uwss_get_pointer(int **ptr)n > {h >         unsigned int ps_temp;  >v" >         ps_temp = __PAL_RD_PS();7 >         if (__PAL_PROBEW(ptr, sizeof(unsigned int *), 3 >                 (ps_temp & PR$M_PS_PRVMOD)) == 0): >         { $ >                 return SS$_ACCVIO; >         }j >:% >         *ptr = &my_data_area.value;e >b >         return SS$_NORMAL; > }e >m > int rundown_handler()i > {n >     return SS$_NORMAL; > }< >t! > -------------------------------i > USE_MYUWSS.C:t >e > #include <stdio.h> > #include <stsdef.h>. > #include <lib$routines.h>m >. > int uwss_set_value(int val);3 > int uwss_get_value(int *val, int **ptr, int *ps);  >m > main() > {6 >         int status;f >         int *theptr; >         int theval = 3;r >         int theps = 0; >         char answer[80]; >o* >         status = uwss_set_value(theval);+ >         if (!$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS(status))  >         {y# >                 lib$stop(status);r >         }  >e >         theval = 0;c >e< >         status = uwss_get_value(&theval, &theptr, &theps);+ >         if (!$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS(status))  >         {l# >                 lib$stop(status);n >         }h > J >         printf("val = %d, ptr = %p ps=%08x\ncontinue? ", theval, theptr,	 > theps);t >E >         scanf("%s", answer); >e! > /* Why isn't this an ACCVIO? */C >  >         theval = *theptr;  > 3 >         printf("wow! the value is %d\n", theval);o >o! > /* Why isn't this an ACCVIO? */u >f >         *theptr = 24;i >s >         theval = 0;P< >         status = uwss_get_value(&theval, &theptr, &theps);+ >         if (!$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS(status))L >         {,# >                 lib$stop(status);u >         }iK >         printf("val = %d, ptr = %p, ps=%08x\ncontinue? ", theval, theptr, 	 > theps);n >m >         scanf("%s", answer); > }s > ---------------------- > The build procedure: >l. > $ CC MYUWSS.c+SYS$LIBRARY:SYS$LIB_C /LIBRARYJ > $ link/protect/share/full/cross/notrace/sysexe/nosyslib/map myuwss.obj,- > myuwss.opt/opt > GSMATCH=LEQUAL,1,1 > SYMBOL_VECTOR = ( -t8 >                 UWSS_SET_VALUE          = PROCEDURE, -8 >                 UWSS_GET_VALUE          = PROCEDURE, -7 >                 UWSS_GET_POINTER        = PROCEDURE -o >                 )n% > PSECT=USER_SERVICES,VEC,NOWRT,NOEXEi > COLLECT=PLV,USER_SERVICESn > $! > $ cc use_myuwss.cr" > $ link use_myuwss,sys$input:/opt > myuwss/share >c > -----------------a
 > The output:  >i! > $ copy myuwss.exe sys$library:; < > $ install add sys$library:myuwss.exe/open/share/head/prote > $ run use_myuwss" > val = 3, ptr = 72000 ps=0000000b
 > continue? yw > wow! the value is 3a$ > val = 24, ptr = 72000, ps=0000000b
 > continue? yo) > $ install remove sys$library:myuwss.exee > ---------------- >e > Thanks for any help. >e > -Ryan  >G >e  ( I personally don't like to use /PROTECT.  L Instead, enable and disable protect for regions of code and/or data that you want to protect.I On VAX you will be generating the actual transfer vectors so that area ofp code should not be protected.s  , Here's an example of something that I build:   PROTECT=YES  CLUSTER=BFS_SHR$ROOT  COLLECT=BFS_SHR$ROOT,BFS$$VECTOR   PROTECT=YES  CLUSTER=BFS_SHR$DISPATCHD COLLECT=BFS_SHR$DISPATCH,BFS$$ENTRY,BFS$$CHME,BFS$$CHMK,BFS$$HANDLER* COLLECT=BFS_SHR$DISPATCH,TCPIP$$CALL_TRACE   PROTECT=YESf CLUSTER=BFS_SHR$CODE% COLLECT=BFS_SHR$CODE,$CODE$,_LIB$CODE0  
 PROTECT=NO CLUSTER=BFS_SHR$DATA. COLLECT=BFS_SHR$DATA,$DATA$,$INITIAL$,$GLOBAL$. COLLECT=BFS_SHR$DATA,$OWN$,_LIB$DATA,BFS$$PPDA   PROTECT=YESe CLUSTER=BFS_SHR$PDATAt" COLLECT=BFS_SHR$PDATA,$LINK,$LINK$9 COLLECT=BFS_SHR$PDATA,$LINKAGE,$LITERAL$,$PLIT$,_LIB$PLITc; COLLECT=BFS_SHR$PDATA,BFS$$FS_TABLE,BFS$$FS_TABLEA,$SYMVECT-  L This is for a shareable that is a set of exec mode system services.  It uses locking anduE you automatically can create system-wide locks from exec mode without9 privileges.8L In addition, if you are in exec mode you also will automatically have CMKRNL	 privilege : by default from within the UWSS shareable, if you need it.   -johnr   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Mar 2004 17:07:16 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0403031707.354b36a2@posting.google.com>a   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew No.Harrison No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c255ck$hng$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...m > glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: > > John Smith wrote:n > > 
 > > (snip) > > I > >> And while Mark is loking into it, suggest that he allow the Hobbyist-K > >> licenses to be used by all educational institutions, K-12, colleges an  >  dG > >> universities as long as they are used for instructional purposes. n
 > >> Seems toiK > >> me that the Hobbyist licenses are less onerous and less expensive thant >    > >> the > >> Educational licenses. > >  > > F > >> THis way an educational institution can get an Alpha for next to  > >> nothing on K > >> eBay (or donated by one of us) and get free licenses to use to educateR >   
 > >> kids. > >  > > F > > Are used Alphas really cheaper than a comparable off-brand PC with& > > the previous generation processor? > > 2 > > How about a new Athlon64, though not too fast? > >  > 2 > Mesh are selling an Athlon64 3000+ based box for >  599 with monitor etc. > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrisonf  = and DEC has been selling 64 bit systems since 1993, and I can-. buy a PWS433 from Island computer for $399 ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:13:28 -0600 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)$ Subject: VOL Shadow an mounted drive1 Message-ID: <04030318132800@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>w  L I was wondering if it is possible to volume shadow (software) a mounted diskC drive without having to dismount and then mount it as a shadow set.i   For example:   $ SHOW DEV DGA1000  P Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntP  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count CntO $1$DGA1000:   (MYNODE)  Mounted              0  XXX00          8001945     4  2a   $ SHOW DEV DGA1001  P Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntP  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count CntO $1$DGA1001:   (MYNODE)  Mounted              0  XXX01          8001945     4  2t    = $ MOUNT DSA1: /SHADOW=($1$DGA1000:,$1$DGA1001:) YYY00 /SYSTEMt      M I have not had the oppurtunity to test this yet, however I am assuming that IoE can not do this - that I have to dismount the physical devices first.o  K I am thinking about doing this because I want to do some snapshot (sort of): backup.  TIA      J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*nz VMS Systems Administratort* firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:03:42 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com( Subject: Re: VOL Shadow an mounted driveQ Message-ID: <OF7C9863E6.46382319-ON85256E4D.001051AB-85256E4D.00114E18@metso.com>D  + This is a multipart message in MIME format.i" --=_alternative 00114E1285256E4D_=, Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"  C brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) wrote on 03/03/2004 07:13:28 PM:   J > I was wondering if it is possible to volume shadow (software) a mounted  diskE > drive without having to dismount and then mount it as a shadow set.   J No, but it is possible to mount the disk as a single-member shadowset and  then cF add the other volume later.  It is also not supported to dismount one  member ,I of a shadowset and expect the dismounted member to retain integrety to a h
 certainty.   >  > For example: >  > $ SHOW DEV DGA1000 > ; > Device                  Device           Error    Volume p > Free  Trans Mnt'; >  Name                   Status           Count     Label   > Blocks Count Cnt8 > $1$DGA1000:   (MYNODE)  Mounted              0  XXX00  > 8001945     4  2 >  > $ SHOW DEV DGA1001 > ; > Device                  Device           Error    Volume   > Free  Trans Mntr; >  Name                   Status           Count     Label   > Blocks Count Cnt8 > $1$DGA1001:   (MYNODE)  Mounted              0  XXX01  > 8001945     4  2 >  > ? > $ MOUNT DSA1: /SHADOW=($1$DGA1000:,$1$DGA1001:) YYY00 /SYSTEMl > A You have a slight problem here as your disk label does not match 'B either volume.  Also, you will destroy the existing data, if any, = on the volume added into the shadowset.  There is a /CONFIRM  C qualifier to give you a second chance.  You really should read the p shadowing manual.  >  > E > I have not had the oppurtunity (cq) to test this yet, however I am p assuming that IaF > can not (cq) do this - that I have to dismount the physical devices  first. >    Correct.  J > I am thinking about doing this because I want to do some snapshot (sort  of)e	 > backup.  > TIA- >  >  > J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*ne > VMS Systems Administrator(, > firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com  " --=_alternative 00114E1285256E4D_=+ Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"c     <br>K <br><font size=2><tt>brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) wrote on 03/03/2004, 07:13:28 PM:<br> <br>L &gt; I was wondering if it is possible to volume shadow (software) a mounted disk<br>L &gt; drive without having to dismount and then mount it as a shadow set.<br> </tt></font>P <br><font size=2><tt>No, but it is possible to mount the disk as a single-member shadowset and then </tt></font>rO <br><font size=2><tt>add the other volume later. &nbsp;It is also not supportedS# to dismount one member </tt></font>,G <br><font size=2><tt>of a shadowset and expect the dismounted member to0, retain integrety to a certainty.</tt></font> <br> <br><font size=2><tt>&gt; <br> &gt; For example:<br> 	 &gt; <br>4 &gt; $ SHOW DEV DGA1000<br>l	 &gt; <br>oP &gt; Device &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;DeviceJ &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Error &nbsp; &nbsp;Volume &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <br> &gt; Free &nbsp;Trans Mnt<br> G &gt; &nbsp;Name &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;rJ &nbsp; Status &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Count &nbsp; &nbsp; Label &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<br>Y &gt; Blocks Count Cnt<br>sJ &gt; $1$DGA1000: &nbsp; (MYNODE) &nbsp;Mounted &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;H &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0 &nbsp;XXX00 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<br>( &gt; 8001945 &nbsp; &nbsp; 4 &nbsp;2<br>	 &gt; <br>o &gt; $ SHOW DEV DGA1001<br>.	 &gt; <br>rP &gt; Device &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;DeviceJ &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Error &nbsp; &nbsp;Volume &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <br> &gt; Free &nbsp;Trans Mnt<br>nG &gt; &nbsp;Name &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;.J &nbsp; Status &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Count &nbsp; &nbsp; Label &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<br>e &gt; Blocks Count Cnt<br> J &gt; $1$DGA1001: &nbsp; (MYNODE) &nbsp;Mounted &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;H &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0 &nbsp;XXX01 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<br>( &gt; 8001945 &nbsp; &nbsp; 4 &nbsp;2<br>	 &gt; <br>g	 &gt; <br>.F &gt; $ MOUNT DSA1: /SHADOW=($1$DGA1000:,$1$DGA1001:) YYY00 /SYSTEM<br>	 &gt; <br>hM You have a slight problem here as your disk label does not match </tt></font>iM <br><font size=2><tt>either volume. &nbsp;Also, you will destroy the existinge data, if any, </tt></font>H <br><font size=2><tt>on the volume added into the shadowset. &nbsp;There is a /CONFIRM </tt></font>L <br><font size=2><tt>qualifier to give you a second chance. &nbsp;You really should read the </tt></font>2 <br><font size=2><tt>shadowing manual.</tt></font> <br><font size=2><tt>&gt; <br>	 &gt; <br>-G &gt; I have not had the oppurtunity (cq) to test this yet, however I am. assuming that I<br>aH &gt; can not (cq) do this - that I have to dismount the physical devices
 first.<br>	 &gt; <br>  </tt></font>) <br><font size=2><tt>Correct.</tt></font>n <br>G <br><font size=2><tt>&gt; I am thinking about doing this because I wants! to do some snapshot (sort of)<br>a &gt; backup.<br> &gt; TIA<br>	 &gt; <br>h	 &gt; <br>  &gt; J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n<br>" &gt; VMS Systems Administrator<br>3 &gt; firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com<br>e </tt></font>$ --=_alternative 00114E1285256E4D_=--   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:16:07 +0100" From: <nicovanderboom@hotmail.com>; Subject: Re: Why does smtp mail between local systems fail?e= Message-ID: <40462ef7$0$3885$3a628fcd@reader2.nntp.hccnet.nl>r  ) I tried telnet umtof2.umd.edu from my pc.   D 220 umtof2.umd.edu V5.4-15, OpenVMS V7.3-2 Alpha ready at Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:12:. 21 -0500 (EST)  ! appeared in about 3 to 4 seconds.r  & umace is a bit faster, 1 to 2 seconds.  ? seems that the lookup in the rbl of a local ip address is slow.nH how long does it take when you do: telnet localhost /port=25 on umtof2 ?  	 greetingsa Nico  7 "Lawrence Bleau" <bleau@umtof.umd.edu> wrote in messageC* news:c257ov$mln$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...? > In article <c24jj2$16mu@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>, "Richard Brodie"  <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes:e: > >"Lawrence Bleau" <bleau@umtof.umd.edu> wrote in message* news:c22nva$jkd$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu... > > F > >> Here's some other points to consider.  There are some Mac systems in my F > >> group that run anti-spam s/w by doing rbl lookups to the same rbl sites,7 > >> and they respond within 2 secs, while VMS doesn't.- > >-A > >I'm guessing that they both timeout. Have you tried manual DNSu queries: > >to the RBL sites? >iF > I just picked a site that failed the rbl test (ws on the rbl list asE > reported by our smtp s/w) and our own site, one that showed the ~30  secmD > delay yesterday.  I used the nslookup utility that came with TCPIP 5.3.7 > Here are the results of tests I ran on umtof.umd.edu:y >aG > Name given to nslookup           Who        On RBL list? Delay (secs)6> > 228.142.204.200.bl.spamcop.net   bad guy        y          1> > 228.142.204.200.dnsbl.sorbs.net  bad guy        y          1> > 195.163.2.129.bl.spamcop.net     umace.umd.edu  n          1> > 195.163.2.129.dnsbl.sorbs.net    umace.umd.edu  n          1 >0F > When I tried to telnet/port=25 from umace into umtof, however, there was a.H > delay of 32 secs before I received the 220 HELO message. (Btw, umace's IP# = > is 129.2.163.195, the one used in the nslookup test above.)- >-H > So, no, these rbl sites aren't timing out, but it's taking a very long timeD > for the program TCPIP$SMTP_RECEIVER to complete its work.  What is	 going on?i > HP?  Any clue? >o > Lawrence Bleau > University of Maryland$ > Physics Dept., Space Physics Group > 301-405-6223 > bleau@umtof.umd.edu/   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.126 ************************