1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 05 Mar 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 129       Contents: ADMIN SHOW CONNECTIONS ???+ Re: Best Backup Blocksize for 110SDLT Tape? + Re: Best Backup Blocksize for 110SDLT Tape? + Re: Best Backup Blocksize for 110SDLT Tape? + Re: Best Backup Blocksize for 110SDLT Tape? 9 Re: CDs in Canada ( was Re: Support of USB Memory stick )  Charon Vax VUPs  RE: Charon Vax VUPs  Re: Charon Vax VUPs  Re: Charon Vax VUPs  Re: Charon Vax VUPs ; Re: Destroying CDR media (Was: Support of USB Memory stick) ; Re: Destroying CDR media (Was: Support of USB Memory stick) ; Re: Destroying CDR media (Was: Support of USB Memory stick) ; Re: Destroying CDR media (Was: Support of USB Memory stick) & DS10, VMS 7.3 DECNet & TCPIP troubles.  Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMS  Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMS  Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMS  Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMS  Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMS  Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMS  Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMS  Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMS  Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMS  Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMS  Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMS$ How to Ping Between OpenVMS and Unix( Re: How to Ping Between OpenVMS and Unix( Re: How to Ping Between OpenVMS and Unix Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon : Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !! Re: It's all about perception!! 6 looking for plastic front door alpha workstation tower Re: looking for XP900 G Re: OpenVMS virus proof while other disks get zapped by latest viruses! G Re: OpenVMS virus proof while other disks get zapped by latest viruses! G Re: OpenVMS virus proof while other disks get zapped by latest viruses!  Recursive COPY Re: Recursive COPY Re: Recursive COPY Re: SSH login problem -- Bug?  Re: SSH login problem -- Bug?  Re: Sun On The Run?  Re: Sun On The Run?  Re: Support of USB Memory stick  Re: Support of USB Memory stick  Re: Support of USB Memory stick 6 Re: The Inquirer:   HP re-thinking its IA-64 strategy?6 Re: The Inquirer:   HP re-thinking its IA-64 strategy?6 Re: The Inquirer:   HP re-thinking its IA-64 strategy?6 Re: The Inquirer:   HP re-thinking its IA-64 strategy?6 Re: The Inquirer:   HP re-thinking its IA-64 strategy?- Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas  What is ZIC ?? Re: What is ZIC ??' [Audio] Support of Ensoniq card on DS15 * [OT] Recycling (Was: Destroying CDR media) Re: [TCPIP V5.4] More rants  Re: [TCPIP V5.4] More rants   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:24:01 -0600 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)# Subject: ADMIN SHOW CONNECTIONS ??? 1 Message-ID: <04030512240131@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   . I am running Advanced Server V7.2A for OpenVMS   $ ADMIN SHOW CONNECTIONS ..   Total of 54 connections   2 Q#1) Is this reflective of the number of licenses?  > Q#2) If not, how do I determine the number of licenses in use?    4 I also noted users with multiple connections to IPC$     Q#3) What is IPC$?       TIA      J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:28:22 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>4 Subject: Re: Best Backup Blocksize for 110SDLT Tape?0 Message-ID: <40485646.29759DC7@sture.homeip.net>   John Santos wrote: > # > On 4 Mar 2004, Daryl Jones wrote:  >  > > Dear John Santos:  > > I > > The issue is not that it may pertain to 9 track tapes only. The issue E > > raised was that is or was a problem with tape backup and restores D > > using block size greater than 32256 and nobody had a solution or? > > understanding of the problem. That by itself is worry some.  > G > No one else has ever experienced or heard of any such problem, AFAIK.  > E > I certainly haven't, and I've been doing VMS backups (and restores) ' > since VMS backup was released (V3.0?)  >   G Same here. ISTR a recommendation with the VaxStation 2000 and TK50/TK70  drives@ that you didn't use block sizes greater than 16K, due to the I/O
 architecture.   B I never experienced the "joys" of Exabyte tapes, but did hear some horror stories.   I > The *only* problem with blocksize > 32256 is the documented restriction F > that the resulting ANSI tape files can't be copied to disk.  Restore. > from tape has *always* (AFAICR) worked fine. >   G I've just thought of another use for this, implicit the ability to copy  to disk.  B You can also copy across networks, which can be very useful for DRH purposes. In that case you should also check that your network setup can handle your chosen blocksizeB (just something niggling at the back of my mind there, so it needs	 testing).   H So back to the original question. If SDLTs give a sufficient performance improvement G by using 65024 blocksize, then use that, but be aware that you will not 
 be able toF copy the savesets to disk or across the network. If you can think of a	 situation 6 where that would be useful, accept it as a compromise.  E Only you can weigh up the proc and cons for your site, and there's no 9 substitute for rigorous testing on your own hardware mix.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 13:21:13 +0000 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> 4 Subject: Re: Best Backup Blocksize for 110SDLT Tape?8 Message-ID: <aqae40tt22eo48ml432d3v6qb0qieuks60@4ax.com>  H On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 13:10:18 +0100, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote:   >Daryl Jones wrote:  >>   >> Dear Paul Sture:  >>  E >> This has been reported to me from the 1990s to 1998 (VMS 5.5-2h to D >> 7.0?)where my last discussion took place. These are restores fromF >> BACKUP savesets by BACKUP and not by COPY. The single extraction ofG >> files may be successful, however, the full restoration appears to be I >> the problem when multiple tapes are used. With the DLT Tape systems, a G >> whole disk can be backup on one tape and therfore, this may not be a H >> problem? The problem appears when the backup saveset starts on volumeB >> one and continues to volume 2. Again, this is my understanding. >>   > A >I've never seen that problem, although I must say that since the H >mid-1990s I have adopted the practice of using 32256 as the block size," >so that a COPY to disk will work. >  >That has 2 advantages:  > D >1. It is a lot faster and easier to perfom multiple file selections= >   from a saveset on disk - no tape rewinds to contend with.  > B >2. On a few occasions I have managed to restore a saveset to disk> >   using COPY, when BACKUP was failing with too many retries.  I Everything Paul said.  The notion of vanilla BACKUP failing simply due to I the use of large but supported blocksizes is completely new to me.  (It's J had other nasty bugs after rewrites, but nothing fundamentally broken like0 this.)  I too always advocate 32256-byte blocks.  L On the second point, I think COPY is a bit sensitive to errors and may stallK or may carry on and then subsequent on-disk BACKUP operations can deal with J erroneous blocks using CRC and redundancy group information.  I had a playL with creating ODS-2 structures on CDRs, holding various backup savesets, andJ then found my (crappy) PC CD burner was creating disks with parity errors.K I thought I was snookered (COPY just completely stalled) until I discovered H that BACKUP knows a bit more about ODS-2 than it lets on and was in factF quite happy to dig into [named-dir] looking for named.fil even on a CD& mounted /foreign !  The little minx...   --  8 If you think women aren't explosive, drop one sometime.    Mail john rather than nospam...    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2004 07:40:50 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 4 Subject: Re: Best Backup Blocksize for 110SDLT Tape?3 Message-ID: <YZvrSQgLkUbH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <xjP1c.41090$ko6.355664@attbi_s02>, "Tom Simpson" <thomas.simpson1@nospam.comcast.net> writes:  > L > One other (obvious) thing that was not pointed out here is that if you areK > writing small save sets (smaller than your selected block size), the tape G > has to write the whole block, so space and time may be wasted in that 4 > situation.  On image backups, that's not an issue.  B    What kind of tape has that problem?  Every tape technology I'veE    looked that deeply into can write the last block of a file shorter     than the blocksize.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2004 07:43:05 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 4 Subject: Re: Best Backup Blocksize for 110SDLT Tape?3 Message-ID: <r$Gz84EFzxxV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   y In article <4047E32E.9BFEABAF@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:   J > So, while that may have been an issue in the past, I believe it has beenJ > cleared up since VMS V7.1 and later (including mandatory BACKUP patches)' > when BACKUP got some major revisions.   D    News to me.  I've been doing multi-volume backup and restore everC    since standalone backup was introduced with VMS 3.0.  Never had  7    a problem on any media (9-track, TK, 4mm, 8mm, ...).    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:06:29 +0100  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>B Subject: Re: CDs in Canada ( was Re: Support of USB Memory stick )- Message-ID: <c2828f$2m7m$1@news.cybercity.dk>    Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: > Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > 
 >> In article E >>    <Kcs1c.82707$ah.62100@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, ( >> "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:F >> Some moronic jusridictions (Canada) charge a levy on every blank CD
 >> becauseE >> the music industry managed to get a bunch of bureaucrats convinced E >> that most CD's are being used to rip off the recording artists. So  >> the levy is charged1 >> on each CD, irrespective of the use of the CD.  >> >> >>F >>   I always wondered about that. If the cost of my blank CD includesB >> a royalty being paid to the artists then does that give me free! >> reign to copy music onto them?  >>> >>   Is the levy actually in effect now? How much is the levy? >>  H Here in Europe many countries also have this.  I think CODA is the forceG behind the lobbying.  There was a levy on cassettes when they were big. J Here where I live, CDR-700 box of 10 in jewel cases costs about $13.00 andL about $33 for 100 on a spindle.  Germany $7.30 for 10*870MB CD-R, $43.10 forA 100*900MB.  Prices vary wildly though, depending on speed rating.   	 Dr. Dweeb E >>   I can still buy 20 packs of CD-Rs ( with jewel cases ) for under C >> $20CDN, so I take it the levy isn't all that high if it's there.  >> >>C > That isn't a bargin.  Here in the states, you can get a 100 stack D > spindle for $40 (free, if you watch for rebate coupons), and a 100F > pack of slim CD jewel cases can be bought for about $10 (again, free# > if you watch for rebate coupons).  >  > G > Perhaps you should just order them over the web from the states, just A > like we can order cigars from Canada that we can't get here :-)  >  >  > Barry    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:10:32 +0000 E From: Tim ffrench-Lynch <tim-DOT-ffrench-HYPHEN-lynch@baesystems.com>  Subject: Charon Vax VUPs. Message-ID: <40489868.52476461@baesystems.com>  > Realistically how fast is Charon-VAX running on a high end PC?   We have a Vax/Alpha VMS cluster here used for software development (stuck on VAX) with heavy processing tasks (both VAX and Alpha) running in the background. We pay support on a per-machine basis and  I guess things might be getting near to the point at which replacing fast MicroVAXs with half the number of PCs running Charon-VAX might be possible as a cost saving measure.  A Then I might be able to get a fast Alpha added to the cluster :-)    Tim    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:37:24 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: Charon Vax VUPs9 Message-ID: <IPEGKJECKHGHJKIDHKKMMEPNCHAA.tom@kednos.com>   > I have been  testing a VAX emulator under Linux on a 500MHz PCG and running the PL/I Benchmarks it is about the same as a 4000 model 90    -----Original Message----- From: Tim ffrench-Lynch 4 [mailto:tim-DOT-ffrench-HYPHEN-lynch@baesystems.com]$ Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:11 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Charon Vax VUPs    > Realistically how fast is Charon-VAX running on a high end PC?  L We have a Vax/Alpha VMS cluster here used for software development (stuck onD VAX) with heavy processing tasks (both VAX and Alpha) running in the5 background. We pay support on a per-machine basis and I I guess things might be getting near to the point at which replacing fast J MicroVAXs with half the number of PCs running Charon-VAX might be possible as a cost saving measure.   A Then I might be able to get a fast Alpha added to the cluster :-)    Tim    --- & Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.607 / Virus Database: 387 - Release Date: 3/2/2004    --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.607 / Virus Database: 387 - Release Date: 3/2/2004    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:26:15 -0500 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> Subject: Re: Charon Vax VUPs. Message-ID: <404855C7.14102.9DCAE2F@localhost>  0 On 5 Mar 2004 at 15:10, Tim ffrench-Lynch wrote:@ > Realistically how fast is Charon-VAX running on a high end PC?  ? Last benchmarks (not yet posted anywhere) are 95 VUP's or so.   / There's a recent performance note available at:   @   http://www.stanq.com/CHARON-VAX%20Performance%20Guidelines.pdf  - > We pay support on a per-machine basis and I D > guess things might be getting near to the point at which replacingH > fast MicroVAXs with half the number of PCs running Charon-VAX might be$ > possible as a cost saving measure.  D That's the whole idea of CHARON-VAX.  If you fill out the Inventory 
 checklist at:   &   http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html  ( I'll be glad to send you some numbers...  C > Then I might be able to get a fast Alpha added to the cluster :-)   ! And that would be a Good Thing...   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 08:42:10 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>  Subject: Re: Charon Vax VUPs' Message-ID: <40489FD2.4070103@MMaz.com>    Tim ffrench-Lynch wrote:  ? >Realistically how fast is Charon-VAX running on a high end PC?  >  >We have a Vax/Alpha VMS cluster here used for software development (stuck on VAX) with heavy processing tasks (both VAX and Alpha) running in the background. We pay support on a per-machine basis and >I guess things might be getting near to the point at which replacing fast MicroVAXs with half the number of PCs running Charon-VAX might be possible as a cost saving measure.  > B >Then I might be able to get a fast Alpha added to the cluster :-) >    > F My system, old by todays PC standards, is an AMD Dual Processor 2600+ A Tyan MB based system which is running at about 53 VUP's.  My MRP  G regenerations dropped from over three hours (on a 4100) to 36 minutes,   does that help?    Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 17:18:44 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>  Subject: Re: Charon Vax VUPs8 Message-ID: <49dh409h2p8aav6cdjm1dmsvut5elbs0ad@4ax.com>  G On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:37:24 -0800, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:   J >I guess things might be getting near to the point at which replacing fastK >MicroVAXs with half the number of PCs running Charon-VAX might be possible  >as a cost saving measure. > B >Then I might be able to get a fast Alpha added to the cluster :-)  ) Why not run Charon-VAX on the fast Alpha?    -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:43:18 GMT F From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)D Subject: Re: Destroying CDR media (Was: Support of USB Memory stick)0 Message-ID: <GvF1c.190$f83.156@news.cpqcorp.net>  > Any writeable and re-writable material will eventually degrade? in light, so if you can put it outside where it will be exposed = to direct sunlight for a while, it will eventually be totally > bleached.  (This is for CD-R, CDRW, DVD-R, etc.  It won't work" on the old Magneto-Optical media.)  < If you're in a hurry, and you have some frustrations to work@ off, sandpaper will remove the recorded layer quite effectively.   --  (  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have a 5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:27:19 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGD Subject: Re: Destroying CDR media (Was: Support of USB Memory stick)0 Message-ID: <00A2E585.A74A65A6@SendSpamHere.ORG>  n In article <9f7f13a8.0403040924.5fddfcba@posting.google.com>, alexdaniels@themail.co.uk (Alex Daniels) writes:k >Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote in message news:<40464CF9.66638A33@applied-synergy.com>...  >> Nic Clews wrote:  >>  M >> > Yes. [In a certain case] the current proposal is a tape solution to move L >> > relatively (less than 100 meg) small amounts of data from one system toI >> > another. CDR was investigated, but due to the nature of the data add 0 >> > complications to destroying the used media. >>  4 >> I thought that was what microwave ovens were for. >>  B >> And the associated light show is an entertaining bonus.  <grin> > D >The light show is most entertaining, although one ex-girlfriend didE >seem to have her objections me using her microwave for this purpose.  > C >As for it being an effective means of erasing the data, I'm not so D >sure.. the CD is thin bit of metal foil attached to a polycarbonateB >disc. The microwave munches up the foil into lots of tiny pieces. > G >I would imagine one could with enough time and effort, take these tiny G >bits and with the right equipment read a small amount of data off each > >one. Depends how important truly erasing the data is I guess.  G You need a girlfriend with stronger microwave.  One that will cause the G polycarbonate to burn and really stink up your girlfriend microwave and A impart the nastiest taste to foods cooked in it in the future. :)    --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.  --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2004 05:45:30 -0800 . From: al5vf03p02@sneakemail.com (William Webb)D Subject: Re: Destroying CDR media (Was: Support of USB Memory stick)= Message-ID: <d5ce4b06.0403050545.71b706a0@posting.google.com>   j Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote in message news:<4047A988.9D7B5D43@applied-synergy.com>... > Alex Daniels wrote:  > > n > > Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote in message news:<40464CF9.66638A33@applied-synergy.com>... > > > Nic Clews wrote: > > > P > > > > Yes. [In a certain case] the current proposal is a tape solution to moveO > > > > relatively (less than 100 meg) small amounts of data from one system to L > > > > another. CDR was investigated, but due to the nature of the data add3 > > > > complications to destroying the used media.  > > > 7 > > > I thought that was what microwave ovens were for.  > > > E > > > And the associated light show is an entertaining bonus.  <grin>  > > G > > The light show is most entertaining, although one ex-girlfriend did H > > seem to have her objections me using her microwave for this purpose. > > F > > As for it being an effective means of erasing the data, I'm not soG > > sure.. the CD is thin bit of metal foil attached to a polycarbonate E > > disc. The microwave munches up the foil into lots of tiny pieces.  > > J > > I would imagine one could with enough time and effort, take these tinyJ > > bits and with the right equipment read a small amount of data off eachA > > one. Depends how important truly erasing the data is I guess.  >  > C > Well, that's true of any destruction method.  Some people put CDs F > through shredders.  You could still put the pieces back together and > read some data.  > J > I suspect that if you converted the CD to plasma someone would point outF > that you could always reassemble the original molecules and read the > data.  <grin>  > J > You need to balance the time and cost of reconstructing the data againstD > the value of the data.  All the various methods have their places. > I > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- & > Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. > E > Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com   >   Fax: 817-237-3074   N Why not just BURN them? (meaning combustion as opposed to the writing of data)   WWWebb   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:20:17 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>D Subject: Re: Destroying CDR media (Was: Support of USB Memory stick)/ Message-ID: <40489AB1.2691193@sture.homeip.net>    William Webb wrote:  > l > Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote in message news:<4047A988.9D7B5D43@applied-synergy.com>... > > Alex Daniels wrote:  > > > p > > > Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote in message news:<40464CF9.66638A33@applied-synergy.com>... > > > > Nic Clews wrote: > > > > R > > > > > Yes. [In a certain case] the current proposal is a tape solution to moveQ > > > > > relatively (less than 100 meg) small amounts of data from one system to N > > > > > another. CDR was investigated, but due to the nature of the data add5 > > > > > complications to destroying the used media.  > > > > 9 > > > > I thought that was what microwave ovens were for.  > > > > G > > > > And the associated light show is an entertaining bonus.  <grin>  > > > I > > > The light show is most entertaining, although one ex-girlfriend did J > > > seem to have her objections me using her microwave for this purpose. > > > H > > > As for it being an effective means of erasing the data, I'm not soI > > > sure.. the CD is thin bit of metal foil attached to a polycarbonate G > > > disc. The microwave munches up the foil into lots of tiny pieces.  > > > L > > > I would imagine one could with enough time and effort, take these tinyL > > > bits and with the right equipment read a small amount of data off eachC > > > one. Depends how important truly erasing the data is I guess.  > >  > > E > > Well, that's true of any destruction method.  Some people put CDs H > > through shredders.  You could still put the pieces back together and > > read some data.  > > L > > I suspect that if you converted the CD to plasma someone would point outH > > that you could always reassemble the original molecules and read the > > data.  <grin>  > > L > > You need to balance the time and cost of reconstructing the data againstF > > the value of the data.  All the various methods have their places. > > K > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ( > > Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. > > F > > Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com > >   Fax: 817-237-3074  > P > Why not just BURN them? (meaning combustion as opposed to the writing of data) >   D Data confidentiality issues apart, they can be recycled. And much of! Europe is very keen on recycling.   F Brief summary of http://www.hamburg-magazin.de/um_wohin_1.htm (German) follows:  E All Hamburg's 16 recycling depots of Hamburg have 30 litre containers A (blue) where residents can recycle audio and computer CDs free of  charge.   F About 40,000 tons of plastic in the form of CD-ROMs arrive annually on, the German market (source: ALLIANCE Coburg).  E That converts to 12.5 billion pieces.  When spread over the area of a B soccer field, this number of CDS would give a height of 26 meters.  G The disks consist to 99 percent of Polycarbonate, a high-value plastic,  that can be recycled.   E The SRH receives no guarantee of data protection for disks collected.   ? And it goes on to recommend that the CDs are made unreadable by " scratching from the hole outwards.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:10:20 -0600 % From: Neil Cherry <njc@wolfgang.uucp> / Subject: DS10, VMS 7.3 DECNet & TCPIP troubles. . Message-ID: <slrnc4f39b.bmu.njc@wolfgang.uucp>  F First I know nothing of VMS but was lucky enough to be able to installB VMS on a VS3100. I have DECNet running on there very nicely and myB Cisco router sees it just fine (no TCP/IP on the 3100). Now on theE DS10 I have 2 ethernets and I just need 1 running. If I do a show net  I get:   $ sh network  F Product:  DECNET        Node:  ALPHA                Address(es):  2.10] Product:  TCP/IP        Node:  <TCPIP host/node name not yet available> Address(es):  0.0.0.0   C I tried to use @net$configure.com to change the decnet addresses to = 3.10 but it still remains 2.10. I've also configure TCP/IP to @ 192.168.0.100 but it still doesn't work). Also I think DECnet is@ configured to run over TCP/IP (I don't want it over TCP/IP). Any4 pointers? I'm currently read the documentation CD's.   Thanks   --  D Linux Home Automation         Neil Cherry        ncherry@comcast.net; http://home.comcast.net/~ncherry/               (Text only) = http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/                 (SourceForge) 8 http://hcs.sourceforge.net/                     (HCS II)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 01:13:27 +1100 ' From: nospam <x@wedontwantyourspam.com> ) Subject: Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMS 5 Message-ID: <BC6D84B7.252D4%x@wedontwantyourspam.com>   J in article 8a646952.0403032349.74f2c910@posting.google.com, Daryl Jones at> jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net wrote on 04/03/2004 18:49:   > Dear John Smith: > @ > Sybase drop of VMS support had more to do with their financialG > problems than it had to with VMS. I believe Sybase used to support 18 4 > platforms then drop down to 4 UNIX flavors and NT.       Platform:  HP Tru64    Platform:  HP-UX   Platform:  IBM AIX   Platform:  LINUX   Platform:  MacOS,   Platform:  Silicon Graphics IRIX"   Platform:  Sun Solaris   That's 7 they way I count it ;)      Platform:  Win NT    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:23:03 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ) Subject: Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMS G Message-ID: <bZG1c.76279$sl.56240@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    Daryl Jones wrote: > Dear John Smith: > @ > Sybase drop of VMS support had more to do with their financialG > problems than it had to with VMS. I believe Sybase used to support 18 4 > platforms then drop down to 4 UNIX flavors and NT.     Daryl,  K Do you think for a moment that Sybase would have dropped support for VMS if ? the VMS market were vibrant and growing for them? Not a chance.   J What VMS didn't have going for it then is exactly the same it doesn't haveJ going for it now - an indifferent owner that wouldn't advertise/market VMSI into markets it knew it could sell into and owners that sees PeeCee's and J Microsoft products as their salvation even if they lose money selling that combination.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2004 08:33:53 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ) Subject: Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMS 3 Message-ID: <kqIvrmaExeGN@eisner.encompasserve.org>   O In article <c26r2u$r1s$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com> writes:  > John Smith wrote:    > M > Rdb is clearly an important piece of software for VMS, as it is the core of L > the OM software, Several lottery systems, Manufacturing software etc. etc.E > that still sells on VMS.  Were Rdb to be canned and these 3rd party I > applications became available on another OS, one of the few application + > based reasons to buy VMS would disappear.  >   ; 	You left out cellphone billing.  It is a huge RDB segment. ; 	Satellite television billing.  EZPass.  I'd guess TLAs but  	that would be a guess.     I > The problem of course is that Rdb has lost most of the small and medium M > sized customers and continues to exist because it is simply too good at the * > big high availability TP systems game.      C 	That and the fact that it probably makes a ton of money.  Business D 	eventually comes down to money you know.  Read the Sun Microsystems, 	Forbes article.  Is any of that a surprise?  = 	Imagine very large RDB customers.  Build a business case to  3 	come off RDB.  I want to look at your ROI, thanks.   ? 	Sun Micro?  I'll build the business case and I'll do that ROI,  	ok?   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:13:56 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ) Subject: Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMS F Message-ID: <UIH1c.76728$sl.7900@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Rob Young wrote:: > In article <c26r2u$r1s$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" > <dr@dweeb.com> writes: >> John Smith wrote: >  >>F >> Rdb is clearly an important piece of software for VMS, as it is theB >> core of the OM software, Several lottery systems, ManufacturingE >> software etc. etc. that still sells on VMS.  Were Rdb to be canned G >> and these 3rd party applications became available on another OS, one C >> of the few application based reasons to buy VMS would disappear.  >> > < > You left out cellphone billing.  It is a huge RDB segment.< > Satellite television billing.  EZPass.  I'd guess TLAs but > that would be a guess. >  > C >> The problem of course is that Rdb has lost most of the small and E >> medium sized customers and continues to exist because it is simply 9 >> too good at the big high availability TP systems game.  >  > D > That and the fact that it probably makes a ton of money.  BusinessE > eventually comes down to money you know.  Read the Sun Microsystems - > Forbes article.  Is any of that a surprise?  > = > Imagine very large RDB customers.  Build a business case to 4 > come off RDB.  I want to look at your ROI, thanks.     They may not have any choice.   K Corporations are duty bound to do what's best for their shareholders - it's K implicit and explicit in their articles of incorporation, in the laws under J which they are formed and governed. Nowhere does it say that a corporationK has to do what's best for its customers. That they sometimes do is merely a  happy coincidence.  L If Ellison thought for a moment that it would be better for his shareholdersK (he being one of the larger ones) that Rdb disappear, then that's what will A happen - customer migrations and costs to the customer be damned.   G The calculus holds the same for carly(tm) and her view of VMS vis-a-vis L shareholder value - not customer value. If she figures that she can push youH to HP-UX more profitably than she can keep you on VMS, then guess what'sF going to happen? It has absolutley nothing to do with your dislocationE costs, your re-certification of your apps on a different platform, or & whether you go out of business or not.  H If carly(tm) figures that advertising VMS is more costly than its worth,L especially if she's planning in the long run to move you off VMS, then she'sL not going to spend a cent advertising it. We've seen comments to that effect& from Fortier and others at that level.  I Aside from the relatively few sales to new customers who just have to get F the app on VMS (Cerner, OM, and a few others), most of VMS sales go toL existing customers...not many new customers buy VMS just to home-build a new- payroll system or general ledger or whatever.   K That's a direct result of not advertising to let those 'new' customers know2I that VMS is here, works well, isn't as expensive as the competition woulduG lead you to believe, and that HP shows its public face supporting VMS'seJ future in broadly visible ways. That engenders confidence in the future ofB VMS - that's what makes a VMS purchasing decision easier for a newG customer - that's what makes IT people tell their bosses that VMS has a I future (not to mention that they don't feel like their job is on the lineS) for recommending VMS in the first place).g  J As long as HP does not advertise and market VMS is a markedly visible way,I ISV's in the VMS market will continue to fall by the wayside and commentsSC like mine will continue to dog VMS and may become a self-fulfillingLH prophesy - but only becase HP does ZERO to demonstrate that it isn't so.  H BTW the comments aren't mine alone. In addition to similar comments fromH many others in c.o.v., it's exactly the same thing I hear from customersK when I meet with them trying to promote VMS-based solutions. They say to meCI something along the lines of, "Nice app you have there. Can we have it onwE Solaris or AIX or Linux? We will not install VMS here - that's dead."   G Fewer and fewer tools I use to roll my apps are available on VMS. No, I L don't want to write all my own code for every utility or service. Soon I andJ others will be left with no choice about o/s migration and another ISV andG VMS 'ambassador' will be no more. How many more losses can VMS survive?v   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2004 10:19:16 -0600e+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)t) Subject: Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMSe3 Message-ID: <fLIX8RLwrY2l@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <UIH1c.76728$sl.7900@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote:  N > If Ellison thought for a moment that it would be better for his shareholdersM > (he being one of the larger ones) that Rdb disappear, then that's what willhC > happen - customer migrations and costs to the customer be damned.-  C 	Nice try.  I'd like to see him discontinue RDB.  A number of thosee@ 	customers would migrate to a product *other* than Oracle.  That3 	isn't smart business.  Larry is smarter than that.e   	[snip a lot of words]  I > Fewer and fewer tools I use to roll my apps are available on VMS. No, I N > don't want to write all my own code for every utility or service. Soon I andL > others will be left with no choice about o/s migration and another ISV andI > VMS 'ambassador' will be no more. How many more losses can VMS survive?S  @ 	Back to my challenge.  Trot out a business case for a large RDB< 	customer to migrate off RDB.  I'll trot out a business case@ 	Sun to Linux.  In either case, let's focus on one metric - ROI.  > 	Obviously, that Forbes article was/is all about ROI.  That is) 	scary reading for Sun senior management.    				Robt   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:18:53 +0100  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>) Subject: Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMSa- Message-ID: <c282vm$2nf6$1@news.cybercity.dk>-   Rob Young wrote:: > In article <c26r2u$r1s$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" > <dr@dweeb.com> writes: >> John Smith wrote: >i >>F >> Rdb is clearly an important piece of software for VMS, as it is theB >> core of the OM software, Several lottery systems, ManufacturingE >> software etc. etc. that still sells on VMS.  Were Rdb to be canned G >> and these 3rd party applications became available on another OS, onehC >> of the few application based reasons to buy VMS would disappear.n >> >y< > You left out cellphone billing.  It is a huge RDB segment.< > Satellite television billing.  EZPass.  I'd guess TLAs but > that would be a guess. >,  J IIRC one of the larger cell-phone sites has already moved off Rdb.  OthersL will follow.  The sattelite television people are trying desperately to moveE off Rdb, but the task is somewhat larger and more expensive than theydK figured I guess.  Either way, those two markets are already on the slipperye slope.  	 Dr. Dweeby   > C >> The problem of course is that Rdb has lost most of the small andoE >> medium sized customers and continues to exist because it is simplyr9 >> too good at the big high availability TP systems game.  >r >tD > That and the fact that it probably makes a ton of money.  BusinessE > eventually comes down to money you know.  Read the Sun Microsystemsl- > Forbes article.  Is any of that a surprise?u >o= > Imagine very large RDB customers.  Build a business case tot4 > come off RDB.  I want to look at your ROI, thanks. >h  L The ROI hardly ever comes into it.  When some corporate suit says - "we willI change everything to OracleXi on flavour Y of Unix", then it will happen, J cost be damned.  Strategic decisions on IT infrastructure are today seldomE wholly based on sound business sense of adequate understanding of the G technical values or financial costs.  MBA suits with their attitude andmH arrogance (and knowledge that they will already have moved on before theJ shit hits the fan abound).  They need to be seen to affecting change - anyL change.  Accountability is a side issue.  I have experienced them, and trust< me, for old school types like me - it is not a pretty sight.  	 Dr. Dweeba  @ > Sun Micro?  I'll build the business case and I'll do that ROI, > ok?e >6 > Robo   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2004 14:43:26 -0600m+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ) Subject: Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMSe3 Message-ID: <wTSv5f8O$wIj@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  P In article <c282vm$2nf6$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote:; >> In article <c26r2u$r1s$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb"c >> <dr@dweeb.com> writes:e >>> John Smith wrote:  >> >>>pG >>> Rdb is clearly an important piece of software for VMS, as it is theoC >>> core of the OM software, Several lottery systems, Manufacturing>F >>> software etc. etc. that still sells on VMS.  Were Rdb to be cannedH >>> and these 3rd party applications became available on another OS, oneD >>> of the few application based reasons to buy VMS would disappear. >>>d >>= >> You left out cellphone billing.  It is a huge RDB segment.,= >> Satellite television billing.  EZPass.  I'd guess TLAs buts >> that would be a guess.t >> > L > IIRC one of the larger cell-phone sites has already moved off Rdb.  Others > will follow.    @ 	Doubt it.  I know of an RDB based cellphone billing system thatD 	did many millions in hardware not too long ago. Can you name names - 	that moved off?  What's your risk vapor man?v  @ > The sattelite television people are trying desperately to moveG > off Rdb, but the task is somewhat larger and more expensive than theyr > figured I guess.    G 	Would the desperation be because they can't spend enough money?  What  6 	is the gating factor?  I know, just seeing if you do.  E 	But you've done a good job of highlighting the ROI factor.  If it isP? 	too expensive, the ROI isn't there.  It takes time to tilt thea< 	playing field and move off it.  Problem is of course if theE 	numbers don't line up, you have much longer to wait.  Or in eTrade'sa@ 	case, management came in with:  "Sun's the answer, what was the@ 	question?"  Shortly after a march to Sun flopped, out went the  	management.  ; > Either way, those two markets are already on the slippery  > slope.  D 	Your read, hearsay evidence from the vapors.  My evidence is stale,A 	but isn't too old.  2-3 years ago, cellphone billing was a largelC 	growth segment for VMS.  You'd have us believe it completely dried-D 	up and is going in the other direction.  Maybe it has levelled off,' 	but I'll bet is still a large segment.B   				Rob    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:36:23 +0100  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>) Subject: Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMSi- Message-ID: <c29onn$1n81$1@news.cybercity.dk>m   Rob Young wrote:; > In article <c282vm$2nf6$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb"  > <dr@dweeb.com> writes: >> Rob Young wrote:s< >>> In article <c26r2u$r1s$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" >>> <dr@dweeb.com> writes: >>>> John Smith wrote: >>>a >>>>H >>>> Rdb is clearly an important piece of software for VMS, as it is theD >>>> core of the OM software, Several lottery systems, ManufacturingG >>>> software etc. etc. that still sells on VMS.  Were Rdb to be canned E >>>> and these 3rd party applications became available on another OS,r> >>>> one of the few application based reasons to buy VMS would >>>> disappear.k >>>> >>>e> >>> You left out cellphone billing.  It is a huge RDB segment.> >>> Satellite television billing.  EZPass.  I'd guess TLAs but >>> that would be a guess. >>>s >>E >> IIRC one of the larger cell-phone sites has already moved off Rdb.s >> Others will follow. >iA > Doubt it.  I know of an RDB based cellphone billing system thatoD > did many millions in hardware not too long ago. Can you name names. > that moved off?  What's your risk vapor man? >e  J This one I only have second hand (therfore IIRC), but I believe it was one of the German Telcos.   A >> The sattelite television people are trying desperately to move-H >> off Rdb, but the task is somewhat larger and more expensive than they >> figured I guess.  >aG > Would the desperation be because they can't spend enough money?  Whatw7 > is the gating factor?  I know, just seeing if you do.u >t  0 The supplier of the underlying software package.  F > But you've done a good job of highlighting the ROI factor.  If it is@ > too expensive, the ROI isn't there.  It takes time to tilt the= > playing field and move off it.  Problem is of course if theeF > numbers don't line up, you have much longer to wait.  Or in eTrade'sA > case, management came in with:  "Sun's the answer, what was the @ > question?"  Shortly after a march to Sun flopped, out went the
 > management.d  L I was not aware that the flop caused a management exodus - good thing too :- )e   >s< >> Either way, those two markets are already on the slippery	 >> slope.> >IE > Your read, hearsay evidence from the vapors.  My evidence is stale, B > but isn't too old.  2-3 years ago, cellphone billing was a largeD > growth segment for VMS.  You'd have us believe it completely driedE > up and is going in the other direction.  Maybe it has levelled off,0( > but I'll bet is still a large segment. >y  B Yes, my read and No, I would not have you believe it has dried up.  K Just thet there are telco customers moving away from Rdb.  How many have or J are considering it I cannot guess, but the number is greater than zero.  IJ do not know whether new customers are exceeding the attrition rate, but if@ one company can actively move away from an already operating RdbJ installation, then others can certainly do the same.  There are still lotsC of cell phone companies on Rdb though, the question is how many aren  confident enough to stay there ?  	 Dr. Dweebh   > Robh   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2004 07:46:26 -0600t; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-) Subject: Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMS13 Message-ID: <cn0UZd8bT4DZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  w In article <8a646952.0403041624.67271536@posting.google.com>, jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) writes:  > Dear John Smith: > H > When Sybase made the decision to go to fewer platforms to support, VMSC > was going to be one of them. However, Sybase was in such terrible H > financial problems with red ink. They had to go for the platforms thatD > had growth potential to dig their way out of red ink to black. The# > problem wasn't VMS but Sybase!!!!h  F    And sometimes that growth has to be huge.  SAP dropped VMS when itsF    VMS based was growing 40% annually, something most businesses wouldD    love to have.  The systems they kept supporting were growing over    100% annually at the time.e   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2004 08:17:22 -0600K+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ) Subject: Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMSu3 Message-ID: <DXsD7ZkfxL7g@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  P In article <c29onn$1n81$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote:    G >> But you've done a good job of highlighting the ROI factor.  If it is A >> too expensive, the ROI isn't there.  It takes time to tilt thes> >> playing field and move off it.  Problem is of course if theG >> numbers don't line up, you have much longer to wait.  Or in eTrade's B >> case, management came in with:  "Sun's the answer, what was theA >> question?"  Shortly after a march to Sun flopped, out went theh >> management. > N > I was not aware that the flop caused a management exodus - good thing too :- > )u  > 	I'm pretty sure that is a Google groups searchable statement.   > D > Yes, my read and No, I would not have you believe it has dried up. > M > Just thet there are telco customers moving away from Rdb.  How many have ortL > are considering it I cannot guess, but the number is greater than zero.  IL > do not know whether new customers are exceeding the attrition rate, but ifB > one company can actively move away from an already operating RdbL > installation, then others can certainly do the same.  There are still lotsE > of cell phone companies on Rdb though, the question is how many aree" > confident enough to stay there ? >   B 	Let's run with this.  They ax RDB.  RDB goes somewhere even if itC 	is support.  I can't recall a database product , let me re-phrase,rG 	I can't recall an Enterprise database product that has been terminatedeD 	without a nice long support line.  Sybase on VMS, how long was that: 	supported after it was decided Sybase on VMS was no more?B 	If RDB was knifed tomorrow, a migration would have to be planned.> 	I'm sure there would be strong incentives to make the move toE 	Oracle (licensing).  But like MPE/IX there would be strong incentivehB 	to leave the company behind.  Either way, to answer your questionD 	about confidence, I don't see a huge inherent risk to stay with it.> 	I would argue the huge inherent risk is to terminate a profitD 	generating product.  Besides, if I were a CIO and someone at OracleB 	even >> hinted << about taking away my large RDB infrastructure IC 	would whisper:  "SQL."  That would end that foolishness.  The last8B 	thing Larry would like to see would be that movement (from Oracle 	to Microsoft).H   	4 				Robr   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:41:03 -0500-* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>) Subject: Re: GTECH, Lotteries and OpenVMSe) Message-ID: <4048C9BD.D6073BD8@istop.com>s   John Smith wrote:DN > No. The reason Sybase dropped VMS was that Digtial/Compaq were doing nothing, > to ensure that the VMS market was growing.  J I am not sure of that one. I think it more credible that many key VMS ISVsL were told very bluntly by Bob GQ palmer that VMS was going to be phased out.  L Why else would SWIFT have annouced desupport of VMS in the late 1990s when a. replacement platform was still very far away ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:29:41 +0800/ From: "Yong Boon, Lim" <limyb@megasteel.com.my>t- Subject: How to Ping Between OpenVMS and Unix * Message-ID: <c29kte$5bm$1@news4.jaring.my>   Friend,   J     l've one OpenVMS server and one Unix server on SINGLE physical network WITHOUT gateway in between. -     These systems have different subnet, i.e.,       OpenVMSe         IP : 192.168.3.2         Subnet : 255.255.255.0       Unix        IP : 191.1.2.2w        Subnet : 255.255.255.0   H    In order for both system to be able to "PING" each others, what exact% configuration (and command like Route 3    or UCX Add Route?) should l add to both systems?a       Thank in advance!m   Regards, Limi   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:30:06 +0100m9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>01 Subject: Re: How to Ping Between OpenVMS and Unixs& Message-ID: <404864BE.5C05615@aaa.com>  . Don't you ned at least one "router" on the net "between" the two ?i  	 Jan-Erik.      "Yong Boon, Lim" wrote:t > 	 > Friend,. > L >     l've one OpenVMS server and one Unix server on SINGLE physical network > WITHOUT gateway in between.p/ >     These systems have different subnet, i.e.e > 
 >     OpenVMS- >         IP : 192.168.3.2  >         Subnet : 255.255.255.0 > 
 >     Unix >        IP : 191.1.2.2N >        Subnet : 255.255.255.0u > J >    In order for both system to be able to "PING" each others, what exact' > configuration (and command like Routen5 >    or UCX Add Route?) should l add to both systems?g >  >     Thank in advance!  > 
 > Regards, > Lim    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 18:55:16 GMTo0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>1 Subject: Re: How to Ping Between OpenVMS and Unixd/ Message-ID: <n242c.51542$PR3.1003434@attbi_s03>r   Bob Koehler wrote:  d > In article <404864BE.5C05615@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes: > 0 >>Don't you ned at least one "router" on the net >>"between" the two ?d >> >>Jan-Erik.y  E >    Not if each knows the route to the other's subnet is via itself."5 >    All he needs are the commands to add the routes.t  2 Some machines can add metric 0 or metric 1 routes.  A If you set the subnet mask to 255.0.0.0 they will also be able ton0 see each other, as they will be on the same net.  D Best is to change one so that they are both on the same class C net.   -- glenr   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:44:15 +0000xO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>g& Subject: Re: Intel releases 64bit Xeon0 Message-ID: <c29llv$3k6$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rick Jones wrote: R > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >>Rick Jones wrote:l >  > F >>>I don't believe the LV requires the Intel E8870 chipset.  It can beF >>>run in the zx1 chipset just fine.  I don't have numbers for the zx1 >>>chipset vs the Intel E8870. >  > / >>Feel free to publish them when you have them.a >  > F > I hope to connect my trusty P3 International P4400 power meter to anE > rx1600 one of these days. That won't give me the power draw for thee. > chipset itself, but the system as a whole.   > F > BTW, speaking of CPU power draw, a slight drift with which you might: > be able to help me - in looking at the power figures forG > UltraSPARC-III CU compared with UltraSPARC IIIi, the 1 GHz IIIi seemseG > to be at 59 where the Cu appears to be at 53 (some references say 53,eE > some say 50, I'm not sure if the 53 is supposed to be the 1.2 GHz).o > G > I've assumed that the IIIi's power draw was higher because it had theoH > 1MB on chip cache. What I'm not so sure of is whether or not the powerD > consumption figures for the Cu include the 8MB off-chip cache.  DoA > Sun's published power consumption figures for the III Cu (and I : > suppose by extension the IV) include the external cache? > ? It has 1 MB onchip, it also has JBus support onchip as well itsyF basically the same as the Opteron in terms of the level of integration included on the chip.O   > C >>Incedentally the prices for the LV Itanium 2 based rx2600 are now B >>available. A 2 CPU, 2 GB 2 disk config costs $6410, compare this( >>with a faster (int) Sun V20z at $4245. >  > ; > Bully for Sun :)   I guess I'll have to go price a DL145.t >   > Yuk it should be dirt cheap, Non Hot Plug 7200 RPM ATA drives,- 1 PCI slot looks like a cheapy and should be.t         > < >>And since your benchmark du jour seems to be SPECweb99_sslC >>Sun just published a 2 CPU v20z (248) Opteron result running Zeus  >  >  >>		SPECweb99_SSL	 >>Sun v20z	2340n >>HP rx1600	1278		 >  > ) > Yep - saw that.  Makes a nice target :)n >   ? Well you already have a 1.5 Ghz result on the rx2600 but as youe@ know thats also quite a lot slower than the V20z and rather more2 expensive at $36K for the config used in the test.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:37:16 +0000hO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>oC Subject: Re: It is almost certain now, INTEL will have 64bit x86 !!t0 Message-ID: <c29opd$4l0$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rick Jones wrote:j( >>>>Because your maths isn't that good ! >>>. >>> G >>>Very well, please correct it - how many distinct PCI busses, of what - >>>frequency and width are there in the F25K?a >>>t >  > > >>A fully configured F25K has 54 x 66Mhz 64 bit PCI busses and  >>18 x 33 Mhz 64 bit PCI busses. >  > : >>The peak bandwidth of a 33 Mhz 64bit PCI bus is 264 MB/s: >>The peak bandwidth of a 66 Mhz 64bit PCI bus is 528 MB/s >  > & > where M == 1000^2 rather than 1024^2 >  > ; >>At this point you should have realised that your maths isy< >>duff but I since your contribution to this thread has been* >>dubious I will do the math to rub it in. >  > B > Given that the only concrete description I could find on the SunH > website of an I/O board was for the 15K that said there was one 66 MHzG > bus and one 33 MHz bus and this appears to be the first time you havecA > asserted a bus count for the newer I/O boards, just how was one . > supposed to know how many busses there were? >    Each slot has its own bus.   >  >>18 x 264 = 4752 MB/s >>54 x 528 = 28512 MB/s  >  >  >>28512 + 4752 = 33264 MB/s. >  > E >>Rather more than we claim as the sustained thoughput of the system.  >  > N > Good then to see that the mistake make on the 15K description was corrected. >   ? The F15K description isn't incorrect it refers to the older PCI,
 I/O assembly.:  @ The F15K and F25K arn't like a SuperDome, the I/O assemblies can@ be changed without changing the rest of the system and there are; 3 kinds of I/O assembly that you can put into slot 1 slots.o > > >>To be fair I usually use 200 MB/s for 33 and 400 MB/s for 66= >>which gives a number of 25200 MB/s still more than we claimn >  > I > Could you provide a URL to the document describing there being three 66a+ > MHz busses on the new I/O board?  Thanks.m >  > , >>Full details are only available under NDA. >  >  > Convenient :)e >   = Hardly, you havn't provided any explanation of how you arrivee= at the bisectional bandwidth or I/O bandwidth numbers for the : SuperDome. Arguing for more transparency from Sun on a I/O? benchmark when you can't justify your basic system interconnectd2 bandwidth claims is amusing but far from atypical.  : Sad to say the rule of thumb for any HP bandwidth claim is< to divide it by 2 and that is being very very kind. HP claim: that the bisectional bandwidth of the SuperDome is 64 GB/s> however the non MPI streams results for the Dome are less than; half that at 30GB/s. Assuming the Dome bandwidth really waseA approaching 64 GB/s you would on a NUMA system expect the streams = result to be something close to or slightly higher than that.   ? Ditto for the V2600/2500 series where Streams numbers never got   to 1/3 of the claimed bandwidth.   > B >>Basic config details 188 T3B arrays with a total of 3384 x 72 GBD >>10000 RPM drives. All storage protected either RAID 0+1 or RAID 5. >  > / >>F15K with 72 x 900 Mhz UltraIIIcu processors. , >>18 x I/O assemblies 71 x Sun 2G FC PCI HBA >  > ' >>12.3 GB/s sustained sequential reads.  >  > A > I take it the table size and memory size of the system are only  > allowed under NDA? >    The table size was 7 TB.   regardsu Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 01:41:10 +0800a, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>( Subject: Re: It's all about perception!!- Message-ID: <87fzcozf0p.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a  = koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:-  C >    Too bad that's technically inacurate.  Nothing in VAX hardwareAA >    prevents the exectution of a NOEXE PSECT, it's just a linkerr7 >    hint.  Alpha, too.  Now on IA64, you can get that.              ^^^^^^^^^^  A Wrong, Alpha has hardware support for NOEXE and NOREAD,EXE pages.a   -- i< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.:@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2004 04:22:15 -0800r, From: diego.claeys@pandora.be (Romax MANIAX)? Subject: looking for plastic front door alpha workstation towerr= Message-ID: <de2a082d.0403050422.5bba4267@posting.google.com>   	 Hi geeks,s  A I'm living in Belgium.  I'm looking for a plastic front door of ab> Alpha Workstation tower model (example:500a) or a defect Alpha$ workstation to sell for spare parts.   thanks.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:18:01 -0800.3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>- Subject: Re: looking for XP900. Message-ID: <4048C459.3060200@Flying-Disk.com>   jaypi wrote:G > I'm buying xp900 with standard configuration. Where should I start myf	 > search?   < I don't know about the XP900, but I just got a 500MHz XP1000; with 2GB RAM for $850 on eBay.   I have seen some with lessy? memory go for as little as $500.   A lot of four 667MHz XP1000s3 just went for $1162 each.v  8 If you don't want to go the eBay route, I would strongly5 suggest Island Computers at http://www.IslandCo.com .e9 I have had very pleasant dealings with them and I am toldP+ that they handle overseas shipments easily.a   Alan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:13:16 -0500* From: "rob kas" <rob@paychoice.com.noSPAM>P Subject: Re: OpenVMS virus proof while other disks get zapped by latest viruses!0 Message-ID: <104eebok3ks8jd4@corp.supernews.com>      Bob  $ What do you run on your VMS systems?                         Robc    6 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0403031720.341f83d3@posting.google.com....; >I don't know if anyone has noticed, but a lot of companiesx8 > are getting creamed by the latest round of viruses ...9 > My boss has 4 friends from other companies who have all-; > lost servers ... but our "unhackable" virus proof OpenVMS19 > servers just keep humming along 24X7 ... isn't it great: > to be on OpenVMS?  :)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:08:02 +00008O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>vP Subject: Re: OpenVMS virus proof while other disks get zapped by latest viruses!0 Message-ID: <c29u3i$6fq$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:td > "rob kas" <rob@paychoice.com.noSPAM> wrote in message news:<104eebok3ks8jd4@corp.supernews.com>... >  >>Bob  >>& >>What do you run on your VMS systems? >> >>                      Robt >  > 
 > everything!  ! Do you have windows desktops ????t   Regardsc Andrew Harrisont   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:07:23 +0000sO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>-P Subject: Re: OpenVMS virus proof while other disks get zapped by latest viruses!0 Message-ID: <c29u2b$6fq$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:7< > I don't know if anyone has noticed, but a lot of companies8 > are getting creamed by the latest round of viruses ...9 > My boss has 4 friends from other companies who have alla; > lost servers ... but our "unhackable" virus proof OpenVMS 9 > servers just keep humming along 24X7 ... isn't it greaty > to be on OpenVMS?  :)m  : It may have escaped your notice but the only OS's infected6 by the viruses you refer to are Windows based. By your4 definition that makes all other OS's from Solaris to Palmos unhackable.   Regardso Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:05:36 -07008 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> Subject: Recursive COPYi1 Message-ID: <4BH1c.624$Zl5.12927@news.uswest.net>o  K Does anyone have a DCL script that takes a source and destination directory I and recursively copies the source to the destination.  Similar to the DOSe$ XCOPY /S or the Unix cp -r commands.   Thanks,e Mike.s   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2004 12:35:43 -0600"; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s Subject: Re: Recursive COPYf3 Message-ID: <j3EwDko1hNZ0@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  l In article <4BH1c.624$Zl5.12927@news.uswest.net>, "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> writes:M > Does anyone have a DCL script that takes a source and destination directory K > and recursively copies the source to the destination.  Similar to the DOSu& > XCOPY /S or the Unix cp -r commands. >        backup [a.b...]*.*;* [d.b...]      or       create/directory [d.b]     copy [a.b...]*.*;* [d.b...]  D  BACKUP will make all the directories in the tree, including [d.b]. F  COPY won't make [d.b], but will make all the subdirectories of [d.b].E  IIRC different rules for updating the creation or modification dates   of the new copies may apply.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:12:23 +0000 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk>h Subject: Re: Recursive COPYr8 Message-ID: <uove40pt3tig75d5a5co0tqup8h9qir5rb@4ax.com>  G On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:05:46 -0500, "Marty O'Connor" <moconnor@dvfs.com>h wrote:  ^ >Another advantage to BACKUP is that it does not change the modify date but it will change theI >ownership to the process executing the backup unless you use /owner=orig:  I Or /by_owner=parent, which can be appropriate.  Gets me every darn time -.L I'm putting files in *his* directory, *I* don't want to own them by default!   -- t2 I'm busy now.  Do you mind if I ignore you later?    Mail john rather than nospam...l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:05:37 -0800O3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>>& Subject: Re: SSH login problem -- Bug?. Message-ID: <4048C171.4060607@Flying-Disk.com>   Martin Vorlaender wrote:6 > Alan Frisbie (Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com) wrote:  A > > I was trying to use SSH for the first time with a VMS system,p& > > but was having trouble logging in.  = > > The critical difference in the SYSUAF records for the two  > > accounts is:  E > > Username: SYSTEM                           Owner:  SYSTEM MANAGERm > >nH > > Expiration:            (none)    Pwdminimum:  8   Login Fails:     0B > > Pwdlifetime:           (none)    Pwdchange:  31-DEC-2003 16:21 > >hC > > Username: FRISBIE                          Owner:  Alan FrisbievH > > Expiration:            (none)    Pwdminimum:  6   Login Fails:     0B > > Pwdlifetime:           (none)    Pwdchange:      (pre-expired)  B > > Even though the pre-expired status does not prevent logins viaD > > telnet, set host, or via a directly-connected terminal, SSH does > > not allow it.n > >dB > > Is this a bug in SSH, or a bug in all the other login methods?  @ > It's not a bug in SSH, it's an omission in the protocol. WhileE > telnet et al do merely connect, and the set password is executed bydE > loginout, the password exchange is part of the protocol in SSH (youaF > could be authenticated by other means, or authentication by passwordG > could be disabled), and expired passwords have not been accounted forp > in the SSH specification.   = OK, I can buy that.   What would be a good work-around for us  given the following situation:  =    1. All the accounts in question are captive accounts (i.e.        no DCL prompt allowed).r  6    2. All user account passwords expire every 90 days.  <    3. Some users need access to our application from outside<       the building, using their laptop computer, an Internet;       connection, and (most likely) Kermit-95 v2.1 (we loveh       it!).o  B    4. We are paranoid about security, so we would like to use SSH.  >    5. Some of these users are outside sales people who may not>       visit our facility more than once a year, if that, so we>       have to handle expiring passwords without their physical       presence.t   Thanks,. Alan   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:36:56 +0000 (UTC). From: Dale Dellutri <ddelQQQlutr@panQQQix.com>& Subject: Re: SSH login problem -- Bug?, Message-ID: <c2ahc8$56h$1@reader2.panix.com>  X On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:05:37 -0800, Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@flying-disk.com> wrote: > Martin Vorlaender wrote:8 > > Alan Frisbie (Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com) wrote:C > > > I was trying to use SSH for the first time with a VMS system,s( > > > but was having trouble logging in.? > > > The critical difference in the SYSUAF records for the twot > > > accounts is:G > > > Username: SYSTEM                           Owner:  SYSTEM MANAGER J > > > Expiration:            (none)    Pwdminimum:  8   Login Fails:     0D > > > Pwdlifetime:           (none)    Pwdchange:  31-DEC-2003 16:21E > > > Username: FRISBIE                          Owner:  Alan FrisbierJ > > > Expiration:            (none)    Pwdminimum:  6   Login Fails:     0D > > > Pwdlifetime:           (none)    Pwdchange:      (pre-expired)D > > > Even though the pre-expired status does not prevent logins viaF > > > telnet, set host, or via a directly-connected terminal, SSH does > > > not allow it.sD > > > Is this a bug in SSH, or a bug in all the other login methods?B > > It's not a bug in SSH, it's an omission in the protocol. WhileG > > telnet et al do merely connect, and the set password is executed bypG > > loginout, the password exchange is part of the protocol in SSH (youtH > > could be authenticated by other means, or authentication by passwordI > > could be disabled), and expired passwords have not been accounted foro > > in the SSH specification.n  ? > OK, I can buy that.   What would be a good work-around for usa  > given the following situation:? >    1. All the accounts in question are captive accounts (i.e.- >       no DCL prompt allowed). 8 >    2. All user account passwords expire every 90 days.> >    3. Some users need access to our application from outside> >       the building, using their laptop computer, an Internet= >       connection, and (most likely) Kermit-95 v2.1 (we loveS
 >       it!).uD >    4. We are paranoid about security, so we would like to use SSH.@ >    5. Some of these users are outside sales people who may not@ >       visit our facility more than once a year, if that, so we@ >       have to handle expiring passwords without their physical >       presence.i  B How about having their login script ask for a new password for theF next period if they log in within the last, say, 30 days of the 90 dayF period.  Then the new password would have to be stored securely on theF VMS system somewhere, and the system would automatically change it forE them at midnight of the end of the 90 day period.  I'd also include a D reminder at every login.  For example, if they're not in the last 30 days of the 90 day period:)   "85 days left in this password period."sA or if they are in the last 30 days, but they haven't picked a newl	 password:cG   "30 days left in this password period; enter new password now (Y|N)?".( and after they've picked a new password:G   "12 days left in this password period; new password already entered."s  D So the users would still pick their own password, but not at a loginD prompt.  This would require that they login at least once during the# last 30 days of each 90 day period.G  D Technically, the SYSUAF would be set so that passwords never expire.: Some other process would know to reset them every 90 days.   -- .7 Dale Dellutri <ddelQQQlutr@panQQQix.com> (lose the Q's)    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 13:06:47 GMT 4 From: "Roert G. Schaffrath" <rschaffrath@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Sun On The Run?% Message-ID: <404729E6.1480@yahoo.com>   
 nospam wrote: L >   I don't see anything about VMS, or happening in the world to reverse theN > stakes for VMS. It took too much damage in the last 6-10years too much bloodI > has move off and nothings is replacing that. The next generations of ITlL > people are either Microsoft kiddies or UNIX kiddies. Its not time yet, butL > its coming, VMS will be dead. Its really a race to see which will go first > SUN or VMS ;).   (snip)  G That is a tough call though I think the installed base of SUN is largers than the remaining base of VMS.e  G I worked with VMS from 1984 (V4.0) to 1996 (stopped at V5.5-2).  TwelvedA years ago (May 1, 1992 to be exact) I made the decision, with theoD blessing of my manager, to move my company's division off of VMS andE switch to HP 9000's running HP-UX.  At the time, we had a 6330, 6320,bB 3900, 3400, assorted VAXStation 4000's(?) and an odd collection ofH MicroVAX II's.  Corporate was always unhappy with our "non-standard" VAXH installations and would have preferred us to be on the corporate IBM MVSF system.  Manufacturing ran on HP-UX and had corporate blessing.  As we? were primarily an Oracle and Pathworks shop, we were not reallyaA dependent on anything unique to VMS.  On May 1, 1992, our company H decided that Microsoft LAN Manager would be the new standard in place ofH IBM LAN Server and that TCP/IP would be the network standard.  This alsoA allowed us to keep our Ethernet installation when the rest of thedA company was (gasp) Token Ring.  To make a long story short, after B switching to HP-UX, we cut our total software license charges fromG around $250K to around $50K and our maintenance charges where about 1/4yB what we were paying to Digital (part of this was due to the volume9 discount we got because the of large installed HP base inoH manufacturing).  We also consolidated various applications spread across= the VAXen to half the number of HP 9000's due to their faster  processors.   D I did find it ironic when HP took over Compaq and OpenVMS became "HP	 OpenVMS".o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:25:29 GMTp3 From: wallacethinmintr@eircom.net (Russell Wallace)e Subject: Re: Sun On The Run?0 Message-ID: <4048a939.223356354@news.eircom.net>  E On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:33:33 +1100, nospam <x@wedontwantyourspam.com>y wrote:  - >Its really a race to see which will go firstS >SUN or VMS ;)  > In Sun's case, it may depend on what they decide their line of business is.  B If it's selling Solaris, then I imagine sooner or later they'll beE gone; the world doesn't really need a passel of mutually incompatibled Unixes.   A If it's building scalable, reliable systems, they might be around F indefinitely, whatever particular technology their systems du jour areA based on. Remember they already made the transition from 68000 to = SPARC _and_ the much bigger one from workstations to servers.    --   "Sore wa himitsu desu."  To reply by email, removec the small snack from address.e! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2004 12:37:38 GMTt< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)( Subject: Re: Support of USB Memory stick0 Message-ID: <c277ui$75j$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  U In article <40465D82.97A94BD4@hp.com>, Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com> writes:eE >1) So far all we have are it would be nice not a business case.  We aF >   need to know how may systems sales hinge on having this.  That is E >   what we need to make a business case.  Having said that a subset nC >   of USB mass storage is on the to do list.  We have no plans to t" >   support QIC tapes or floppies.  O I doubt that I'll buy more VMS systems if there is USB support for them. On theeO other hand, some management people would be impressed to hear that there is nowhL USB support for a system they believe to be long dead. USB support for these$ pen-drives will be a sales argument.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannn   -- iE  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452v  ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot det  D-79011  Freiburg, Germanye9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.htmlt   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2004 12:39:03 GMTa< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)( Subject: Re: Support of USB Memory stick0 Message-ID: <c27817$75j$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  G In article <c2600v0isv@enews3.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com writes: - >Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:@ >s >> how about a network?b > 5 >There are lots of systems that can't be on networks.a  J And even some more systems that have a software problem with their network	 software.h   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannb   -- aE  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452t  ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot des  D-79011  Freiburg, Germanyc9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.htmlb   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2004 17:47:54 +0100bC From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann)e( Subject: Re: Support of USB Memory stick- Message-ID: <40475dba$1@news.uni-konstanz.de>s  E In article <WuednXEANY34LNvdRVn-vw@comcast.com>, "Richard B. Gilbert"e  <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:E >Try measuring it as sales lost because VMS can't do things that any  F >recent Windows, MacOS,  Solaris or Linux system can do!  Things like I >burning CD-R CD-RW, DVD+/-R for instance.  To the extent it can be done oI >it's because customers "rolled their own", principally a customer named v@ >Heuser-Hofman I believe.  AFAIK it's not  a  supported feature.  F If you read the postings about DVD recording you'll get the impressionE that the wheel is been twice. An old DEC problem ("we are better thano the rest of the world").   eberhard   > E >I know you have limited resources but which came first, the limited i? >resources or the reluctance to support  emerging technologies?. >  >Forrest Kenney wrote: >bF >>1) So far all we have are it would be nice not a business case.  We G >>   need to know how may systems sales hinge on having this.  That is rF >>   what we need to make a business case.  Having said that a subset D >>   of USB mass storage is on the to do list.  We have no plans to # >>   support QIC tapes or floppies." >> >> >>   >    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2004 04:34:54 -0800 . From: mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon)? Subject: Re: The Inquirer:   HP re-thinking its IA-64 strategy?a= Message-ID: <7500353b.0403050434.35ea801d@posting.google.com>c   > > It has made ayJ > > commitment to migrate OpenVMS to the IPF platform, and there's no word' > > of change from that division of HP.Y > P > But since customers don't want to migrate to it, breaking that commitment willO > be welcome, espcially if HP annoucend EV7z will be followed by EV79 to bridgem
 > the gap.  > But of course they cant make that as they have given all Alpha= engineers to Intel. There is no way to bring Alpha back. Only  solutions are to  C 1. Change iVMS port to iAMD64. Of course this means another year ofhC delay, but hey, maybe VMS customers would go away if its delayed...p> 2. Kill iVMS and turn customers to Linux, HP-UX and Charon-Vax! customers if they want to switch.o  D Note that NSK's MIPS and HP-UX's PA-RISC are not in danger. They are? still manufactured and have developers that can extend the life 0 easily. The only 'problem' in switching is iVMS.   M-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:16:41 -0500; From: "Island Computers USA" <dbturner@islandco.com.nospam>p? Subject: Re: The Inquirer:   HP re-thinking its IA-64 strategy?n0 Message-ID: <104gv4unkljjibf@news.supernews.com>  J Am I the only one that remains optimistic that HP will just go back to the6 original "round wheel" that has already been invented?I Is it that much work for Intel to tool up for another generation of AlphayA chips? (Itanium Hexagonal wheel couold cause a problem I suppose)   H I thought all the grunt work for T64/VMS/NT/2000/Linux compatibility was there already in the Alpha. I It never ever made any sense to me to dump the world's fastest CPU for ane4 Intel Alpha Clone (well, a mutated clone named IA64)     Not trolling, just venting  H Oh and VMS People - We have sold MORE VMS systems in 2003 than 2001-2002	 combined.rH The real "fall-off" id Tru64 - people in the Unix world seem to be quite	 fickle...4   David Turner   --   David B Turner Island Computers US CorporationR 2700 Gregory St., Suite 180M Savannah GA 31404s Tel: 912 447 6622c Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@hpaq.net http://www.hpaq.netD      ; "mist dragon" <mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com> wrote in messageu7 news:7500353b.0403050434.35ea801d@posting.google.com...t > > > It has made aeL > > > commitment to migrate OpenVMS to the IPF platform, and there's no word) > > > of change from that division of HP.m > >dB > > But since customers don't want to migrate to it, breaking that commitment willeJ > > be welcome, espcially if HP annoucend EV7z will be followed by EV79 to bridge > > the gap. >w@ > But of course they cant make that as they have given all Alpha? > engineers to Intel. There is no way to bring Alpha back. Onlyu > solutions are to >uE > 1. Change iVMS port to iAMD64. Of course this means another year of E > delay, but hey, maybe VMS customers would go away if its delayed... @ > 2. Kill iVMS and turn customers to Linux, HP-UX and Charon-Vax# > customers if they want to switch.r >aF > Note that NSK's MIPS and HP-UX's PA-RISC are not in danger. They areA > still manufactured and have developers that can extend the lifea2 > easily. The only 'problem' in switching is iVMS. >i > Mo   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:13:24 +0100t" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>? Subject: Re: The Inquirer:   HP re-thinking its IA-64 strategy?x3 Message-ID: <40487d25$0$2468$626a14ce@news.free.fr>    mist dragon wrote:   ../.. @ > 2. Kill iVMS and turn customers to Linux, HP-UX and Charon-Vax# > customers if they want to switch.t  N For the fist time, I wonder if those "bad news birds" - as we say over here - T who populate this forum (I'm *NOT* talking about you, Mist) are not right after all.  N If i64 is dead, VMS is dead, and even if I do not want that, all my passsion, 4 our passion for VMS will not do anything to save it.  	 Bad time.e* What is the best Training Center for .NET?   :-(t   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 17:10:17 GMTs9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>e? Subject: Re: The Inquirer:   HP re-thinking its IA-64 strategy?a0 Message-ID: <Zv22c.307$Kt4.202@news.cpqcorp.net>  + "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com> wrote in messagew' news:c29njm$1lu2$1@news.cybercity.dk...i >eG > > HP cannot go on without a major announcement. It isn't "business asoB > > usual". So HP needs to make ist roadmap credible under the new( > > environment. Speculation isn't good. > >0  D Except for a choir of self-interested FUDsters, nothing has changed.  F http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/feature_stories/2004/04bridge64.html  K Both Intel and HP position x86-64 as a bridge to 64-bit systems for WindowsiF users in the small system space.  The Operton systems from HP are pure 32-bit performance plays.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:19:26 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>? Subject: Re: The Inquirer:   HP re-thinking its IA-64 strategy? ) Message-ID: <4048C4AD.C5315918@istop.com>    "Dr. Dweeb" wrote:J > Err. The gap to ??  There is no EV8 or EV9 (at least not on any plans weN > know about, though EV8 could feasibly be reignited), so do I presume you areK > speaking of a gap until the AMD64 architecture becomes the path of forcedO > upgrade ?   M Carly can spin herself out of this quagmire fairly easily. She can state that K the decision to abandon PA-Risc (and Alpha) was right because the future is1K still for servers to be based on commodity industry standard chips. But now J that an even ~better~ and cheaper solution was available, HP would move to; that one in order to produce even more competitive systems.   L And I am sure that Carly and her hairdresser can find many more ways to spin herself out of this.  M Even since the Alpha murder, look at how the ex-Digits have been pooh-poohingrH the SUN "proprietary" chip with no future because Sun couldn't afford toK contine to develop the chip by itself etc etc etc. Once HP lowers itself to E the 8086, it will also be able to use the same marketing against IBM.   K And from a scalability point of view, VMS may have quite an advantage: wheneJ the architecture doesn't scale well inside a single box full of CPUs, thenQ clustering becomes he only way to scale up. And this is where VMS (still) shines.-  I Moving from Alpha to IA64 was a downgrade in technology with no financialxH advantages since IA64 is just as proprietary and low volume and in fact,9 IA64's future is more uncertain than Alpha's, even today.t  I Moving from Alpha to the 8086 is defintely a downgrade in technology, butuL there are financial advantages since the 8086 is truly a commodity chip withK multiple sources which means lower prices. Imagine VMS booting on a Dell or  Gateway PC, or IBM laptop.  M If Intel does its job correctly, it will set out some very complete standards-N on building 64 bit 8086 based systems which means that it would be much easier1 to support VMS on those IBM laptops for instance.S   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:06:28 GMTt" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG6 Subject: Re: Uninterruptable Power Supplies for Alphas0 Message-ID: <00A2E608.DA31EB4C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  h In article <d7791aa1.0403041814.5968d95a@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:k >tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) wrote in message news:<ea44f5a1.0402270927.132a695b@posting.google.com>.... >> We have:o >> g >> 2 AlphaStations 400 4/233 >> 1 AlphaServer  800 5/333g
 >> 1 DS10 466- >> - >> And we are getting:
 >> 1 DS10 6000 >> :I >> And, our management decided to drop hardware maintenance a while back.o >> aI >> I want to propose to my management that we get UPSes for all of these.k >> eK >> We don't need UPS for uptime, since all these system control other stuffcK >> that goes down when the power fails.  But I think UPSes would reduce our O >> hardware repair and replacement costs, and would reduced the likelihood thatr= >> a system would become flakey and start failing during use.z >> >E >> Is this justified?  Do you know of any info that would justify it?y >> vL >> Are there power conditioning solutions that are less expensive than UPSes >> that I should consider? >s> >you can buy a belkin ups for $79 to $139 depending on desired= >battery length, and that one ups will support an alphaserverp; >800 or alpha station plus a decserver and vt and one otherh= >device (tape or cd) comfortably ... yes ups keeps systems upC; >during sags and protects from surges, but we lost an alphab= >to a surge thru a cable modem connection, so surges can come3; >from other sources so ups is not a %100 thing, but it sureh
 >helps ...    G Most of these small UPS were intended for the PeeCee marketspace.  JustoG enough juice -- should the lights go out -- to quickly do a shutdown ofrG the PeeCee to hope to avoid loss of data (that is, of course, unless it G is your time for the built-in randomly trash user's data routine to runs on your PeeCee).  H Where I presently reside, power outages and/or brownouts are an everydayH phenomenon -- exaccerbated in the summer months.  If I'd have chosen oneG of the UPS with the signalling interfaces (ie. on-line or on-battery) IeI would be shutting down and restarting *way too* often.  Instead, I chose  G an APC UPS because of APC's so called "Smart" protocol their monitoringzH capabilities.  I wrote UPShot to utilize these.  The APC units determineH the amount of battery reserved in terms of time per present load and canG be used to determine when it is absolutely necessary to begin shutdown.cG Thus, when the power in my area is lost for 1 minute or 5 minutes or .5aH hour, I'm note shutting down and rebooting.  This is especially trouble-F some when the power cycles off-on-off-on repeatedly until power is re-H stored a relatively stable condition.  APC's units also provide a wealthH of other environmental information and have optional environmental moni-F toring capabilities (ambient temp, ambient humidity and the ability toH monitor NO/NC circuits -- I use these attached to water/moisture sensors7 because my office -- the VAXcave -- is in my basement).a  H I don't make any money off of APC.  I do sell the software I wrote whichH communicates with APC's UPS and it's called UPShot (UPS HTTP-based Oper-G ation Tool).  You can see it in action at my site is you send me a pri-oH vate email for the URL.  It's running on my main system and monitors twoF separate APC UPS.  More info on UPShot:  http://www.tmesis.com/UPShot/    --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.z -- tK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMB             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:33:40 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>h Subject: What is ZIC ?? ' Message-ID: <40484974.A1D5B57D@aaa.com>p   Hi.c5 Just now I was going to type ZIP to see the switches. 6 By mistake I typed ZIC instead and got the following :   $ zica> zic: usage is zic [ -v ] [ "-L" leapseconds ] [ -d directory ])          [-y yearistype] [ filename ... ]a     I found a VERB for ZIC :  
 $ verb zic define verb ZIC     image ZIC    parameter P1, label=OPTION1       value (type=$file)    parameter P2, label=OPTION2       value (type=$file)    parameter P3, label=OPTION3       value (type=$file)    parameter P4, label=OPTION4       value (type=$file)    parameter P5, label=OPTION5       value (type=$file)    parameter P6, label=OPTION6       value (type=$file)    parameter P7, label=OPTION7       value (type=$file)    parameter P8, label=OPTION8       value (type=$file)    nodisallows   $   3 But no online help either directly in VMS or in thet7 TCPIP help. The image is called ZIC.EXE in SYS$SYSTEM:.    Any ideas ? What does it do ?c  	 Jan-Erik.b   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:13:49 +0400R& From: Valentin Likoum <me@privacy.net> Subject: Re: What is ZIC ??h: Message-ID: <c29qtq$1qsiji$1@ID-184585.news.uni-berlin.de>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > Hi.n7 > Just now I was going to type ZIP to see the switches.o [snip] >  > Any ideas ? What does it do ?w  =    timeZone Info Compiler. If you have not found appropriate r< timezone in UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM you could pull timezone info : source from somewhere or create it by hand and compile it 	 with ZIC.a   -- a
 Best regards, 
   Valentin)   valentin.likoum at ncc dot volga dot ru    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2004 17:04:49 +0100eK From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40)m0 Subject: [Audio] Support of Ensoniq card on DS15! Message-ID: <qr0Ou0PFZ9KJ@sinead>h   Hi all,e  M Is there a chance to see a 3X-AVH15-AA DS15 AUDIO CARD working under VMS on aeK DS15 with the actual version of MMOV (2.2). This card is an "Ensoniq sound 0M card modified for 3.3v/5v operation now Supported on DS15 system under Tru64  I UNIX". May be the actual VMS driver is OK (with some editing with an hexa0  editor to update some strings) ?   TIAr   Patrickr --O ===============================================================================lN pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA)      ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:42:12 +0100x* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>3 Subject: [OT] Recycling (Was: Destroying CDR media) 0 Message-ID: <4048ADE4.74C975D0@sture.homeip.net>   John Laird wrote:  > J > On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:20:17 +0100, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> > wrote: > I > >About 40,000 tons of plastic in the form of CD-ROMs arrive annually on / > >the German market (source: ALLIANCE Coburg).0 > >oH > >That converts to 12.5 billion pieces.  When spread over the area of aE > >soccer field, this number of CDS would give a height of 26 meters.a > G > What is the population of Germany, something around 100-120 million ? B > That's 100 CDs, *thrown away*, for every man, woman and child !! >f  F Germany has a population of ~82 million. If I understood it correctly E that 40,000 tonnes represents the amount arriving in the shops rathergD than the amount being thrown away. But think about the number of CDsG which come with software, peripherals, and on magazine covers and it is  probably a staggering amount.-  -F > I notice you mentioned "most of Europe" when referring to recycling.  K Certainly the German speaking parts. Perhaps have should have said "much ofg Europe" there.  L Here in Switzerland, the only rubbish bags they will take cost ~1 GBP apieceO for a 35 litre bag (suitable for a bin underneath the kitchen sink). And, whereuJ I am at least, there are fines for putting designated items such as glass,O electronics, batteries etc in those bags. It's not that bad - I have green bins D at home for organic stuff, and there are various drop off points for5 recyclable items, often inside shops for small stuff.w  N Since a year or so ago, there is a smallish recyclying surcharge on electronicN goods when you buy them, with the idea that you can take old stuff back to anyM electrical shop and they will dispose of it properly for you for free. BeforenO that, you had to either buy new goods or pay the shop to dispose of stuff. Thati could be difficult / expensive.j  N yes it can be a pain, but apparently they have managed to reduce the amount of> non-recycled rubbish per household quite quite significantly.   C Many people take stuff into work and use their employers' recycling. facilities too. :-)a  N There's a rubbish plant near me which burns the combustible stuff and providesN heating for the local housing. IIRC Germany has had such plants for many years now.   >  Here.M > in the yoo-kay, we cannot make up our minds whether to be last in the queue4J > (a general rule) or right up at the front with no way of dealing with itK > (fridge mountains).  There is also a story (the exact truth is not known) G > that we used to have a very very efficient used tyre recycling schemeSL > entirely outside any official channels.  Once we decided to conform to theJ > EC bureaucratic methodology, recycling rates plummeted once many partiesL > realised the extra paperwork and levy collections resulted in overall lost > revenue.  Sigh.> >   J Sad. When I was young the local (UK) council collected paper and cardboardK seperately and apparently made a profit on it. Somewhere along the way theyr= lost the plot and forgot that money can be made from rubbish.0  N But recently I heard of some UK council or other which had hit the targets forK collecting recyclable rubbish separately, only to throw it in landfill withp
 all the rest.i   Sigh.e   -- D
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2004 09:07:58 -0800 . From: alexdaniels@themail.co.uk (Alex Daniels)$ Subject: Re: [TCPIP V5.4] More rants= Message-ID: <9f7f13a8.0403040907.777a3d69@posting.google.com>o  o peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<newscache$y0s1uh$yp32$1@news.sil.at>....8 > I thought I let you know of a few more observations... > F > 1) SSH (server) doesn't honor SYS$ANNOUNCE and SYS$WELCOME logicals.= > (TCPware does it ;-) Why ? Couldn't be security, could it ?s > F > 2) The Scalable Kernel (defining logical TCPIP$STARTUP_CPU_IMAGES asJ > "PERF=ALL" in startup) rants about 'not being a valid version of TCPIP'. >  >   SDA> TCPIPC >   %TCPIP-I-LINKDATE, PWIPDRIVER linked on  9-OCT-2003 18:18:43.66HG >   %TCPIP-I-LINKDATE, TCPIP$TNDRIVER linked on 18-SEP-2003 21:59:03.64tG >   %TCPIP-I-LINKDATE, TCPIP$BGDRIVER linked on 18-SEP-2003 21:58:54.17cM >   %TCPIP-I-LINKDATE, TCPIP$PROXY_SERVICES linked on 18-SEP-2003 22:00:28.99.P >   %TCPIP-I-LINKDATE, TCPIP$INTERNET_SERVICES linked on 18-SEP-2003 21:58:55.84D >   %TCPIP-I-VERSION, TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Version 50323456.0U >   -TCPIP-W-JUSTINCASE, In case you're curious, this is NOT a valid version of TCPIP = >   -TCPIP-W-DISCLAIMER, You are proceeding at your own risk!b    E Well at least its quite a funny rant, but then there are a few othersp like that with SDA and TCPIP...t  B However, I guess the reason is, because this logical has typicallyF been used to run testing versions of specific TCP/IP images. If SDA is6 looking at the logical that is, rather than the image.  9 On a TCP/IP 5.4 update last month they said the scaleablelF (performance) kernel would become default in 5.5. It wasn't default inE 5.4 as they hadn't at that time confirmed it would also be quicker/orn; at least the same performance as with 5.3 on non SMP boxes.   C Anyway I guess you won't have to define the logical in 5.5 and thenhE that problem will go away (if indeed it is the logical, not the imager
 triggering
 this in SDA).i  @ Very closely related to this, I get the same problem with System Healthcheck, which tells me...  * IP501 (TCPIP Component is a Test version)   D TCPIP SHOW VERSION/ALL shows all the TCPIP Components and revisions.C Each TCPIP Component version should contain "V" to indicate it is ahB released version. If the version string contains "T", it indicates& that that component is a Test version.   EvidenceC TCPIP Component Logical, Version TCPIP$STARTUP_CPU_IMAGES is a Testl versiont    F I havnt logged a call on this yet, as in the last three days I'v foundB two 7.3-2 bugs and one 5.4 Scaleable Kernel bug. So am saving this, minor System Healthcheck one for tommorow...   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2004 06:12:21 -0800 . From: alexdaniels@themail.co.uk (Alex Daniels)$ Subject: Re: [TCPIP V5.4] More rants= Message-ID: <9f7f13a8.0403050612.3a3ed1f6@posting.google.com>g  n peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<newscache$thw2uh$w1k$1@news.sil.at>...r > In article <fBP1c.87307$Wa.11589@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com> writes:I > >> 1) SSH (server) doesn't honor SYS$ANNOUNCE and SYS$WELCOME logicals. @ > >> (TCPware does it ;-) Why ? Couldn't be security, could it ?  E By telnet'ing to the SSH port, you can see the box is running VMS, it B is the case that you can see the OS with most SSH servers by doing this.:   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.129 ************************d)  B > > Even though the pre-expired status does not prevent logins viaD > > telnet, set host, or via a directly-connected terminal, SSH does > > not allow }jt;؂l<kA
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