1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 30 Mar 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 177       Contents:P Re: Algorithm requested to number pages to edit a leaflet from A5    document   @ Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers@ Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers@ Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers@ Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers Re: Athlon 64 vs Opteron: diff?  Re: Athlon 64 vs Opteron: diff?  Re: Athlon 64 vs Opteron: diff? * Device names for Fibre channel adapters.... Re: Device names for Fibre channel adapters... Gigabit Ethernet on DPersonalWS  RE: HTML favourite editor? RE: HTML favourite editor? RE: HTML favourite editor? RE: HTML favourite editor?% Intel, Intergrag, Itanium and OpenVMS $ Re: Is Common lisp available on VMS? Re: New software added# Re: OT: HP embraces Linux even more # Re: OT: HP embraces Linux even more # Re: OT: HP embraces Linux even more # Re: OT: HP embraces Linux even more # Re: OT: HP embraces Linux even more # Re: OT: HP embraces Linux even more D Re: Professional Agitator - Harrison, Andrew. Confimed on sun.com!!!D Re: Professional Agitator - Harrison, Andrew. Confimed on sun.com!!! Re: Quorum Disk Question Re: Quorum Disk Question RE: Quorum Disk Question& RMS Journaling - good/bad experiences?* Re: RMS Journaling - good/bad experiences? Re: Securing files under VMS Re: Securing files under VMS Re: Sun On The Run?  Re: Sun On The Run? @ Re: System serivce to get the Host Bus Target Lun combination???@ Re: System serivce to get the Host Bus Target Lun combination??? Re: The J F  M e z e i  F A Q  Re: [ot?]Trademark Alpha Re: [ot?]Trademark Alpha Re: [ot?]Trademark Alpha Re: [ot?]Trademark Alpha Re: [ot?]Trademark Alpha  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:57:26 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>Y Subject: Re: Algorithm requested to number pages to edit a leaflet from A5    document    . Message-ID: <c4b5om$2fhg$1@biggoron.nerim.net>   JF Mezei wrote:    > Just a few notes.  >  ../..    Nice lecture, Jean-Franois !   O But as it had to be done for this morning GMT+2, 57 minutes ago, I had a white  N night as we say over here, and used good old EXCEL and cut/paste within Word, ( with the following pages number matrix :  %    A4    Recto  Recto  Verso    Verso %   page   right  left   left     right % ------  -----  ------  ------  ------ $ 1       1      86      blank   blank! 2       2      85      3       84 ! 3       4      83      5       82 ! 4       6      81      7       80 ! 5       8      79      9       78 ! 6      10      77      11      76 ! 7      12      75      13      74 ! 8      14      73      15      72 ! 9      16      71      17      70 ! 10     18      69      19      68 ! 11     20      67      21      66 ! 12     22      65      23      64 ! 13     24      63      25      62 ! 14     26      61      27      60 ! 15     28      59      29      58 ! 16     30      57      31      56 ! 17     32      55      33      54 ! 18     34      53      35      52 ! 19     36      51      37      50 ! 20     38      49      39      48 ! 21     40      47      41      46 ! 22     42      45      43      44    and that did the trick.   ' Thanks to you all, anyway. Now, my bed!    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:34:04 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> I Subject: Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers 0 Message-ID: <c4bt0c$klq$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >  > N > Since we're making predictions... I'll guess that you are wrong.  I'll guessN > that at some point they will make the decision to cut their costs/losses andN > stop any new Sparc work.  They will develop a Sparc emulator/translator that9 > will run under Solaris/AMD as their migration strategy.  >   E While I cannot rule out Sun canning SPARC at some time in the future, C (anything is after all possible) at the moment SPARC is well funded @ and Sun currently has more processors in development than at any time in our corporate history.  @ You also seem to have missed a rather obvious (if you know aboutB microprocessors) point which is that much of the SPARC development= is rather less costly than say Itanium/Power because of Sun's " approach to delivering throughput.  9 Take Niagara its a N threaded processor where N is a 10's : of thread. These threads run on cores which are replicated: across the die to give us the requisite number of hardware6 threads. This is much simpler development, debug, test: proposition than a single threaded or 2 threaded processor7 that uses the same die space as the replicated cores on ? the Niagara processor. Sun designs one core and then replicates  it across the die.  : Nor is Niagara hard to engineer from a compiler standpoint8 it requires multi-threaded or multi-process applications: to deliver additional throughput, programming models which8 have existed for a long time and are widely used. So Sun4 doesn't have to expend vast ammounts of money on new, Niagara specific backends for our Compilers.  6 Nor does Niagara require developers to port, recompile5 etc so Sun doesn't need to pay to get developers onto  the processor.  < Nor does Niagara require a very low latency memory subsystem; which consumes systems R&D budgets, wide yes low latency no 8 because if a thread on Niagara stalls then it stalls but< you still have 10s of additional hardware threads that arn't= stalled. Compare this with a single threaded or dual threaded @ processor where latency is a big issue because you can stall the entire die.   < You views of Sun's SPARC development seem to be based on the HP view of the world:   < Big modestly 1-2 thread/die CPU's using as much die space as is available  C The largest possible cache to minimise cache misses because latency  is an issue.  C Longer and longer pipelines, higher clock speeds, more compiler led 1 optimisation to exploit increasing levels of ILP.   ? Sadly that will be the old world which may have its place where @ screaming single threaded performance will be an issue and whereB people are prepared to pay for it but which in fact represents the+ last gasp of the old version of Moores Law.   > Ironically Sun's analysis if ILP vs TLP across a wide range of; apps shows that the place where single threaded performance A matters most is on the desktop a place where itanium is supremely  incapable of operating.   > Opteron is the leader in the single threaded space hence Sun's deal to OEM AMD Opterons.   J > I'll also guess that the decisions have already been made, and that theyL > aren't telling anyone simply because they don't want Sparc sales to dry upK > before they have the replacement.  Good for them, perhaps not so good for  > those buying Sparc today.  >   D This of course it just unmitigated FUD but then you knew that didn't you.  A Its also pretty much the same FUD that you have been spouting for 8 the last couple of years. In that period Sun has in fact> increased the number of SPARC projects rather than reduced our investment.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:27:51 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> I Subject: Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers 1 Message-ID: <behac.1993$Ay1.680@news.cpqcorp.net>   K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; wrote in message news:c4bt0c$klq$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...   K For a company that has lagged pretty much everyone in CPU performance for a K very long time, it's interesting to read how wonderful and simple SPARC is.   H Bill Joy is to Jesse Lipcon in what way?  A leading indicator.  Decipher that.    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2004 09:04:40 -0800' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) I Subject: Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers = Message-ID: <734da31c.0403300904.49c7a0a2@posting.google.com>    Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c49d3r$oel$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > David Svensson wrote: x > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<t7v4c.21572$1gU1.15168@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>... > > A > >>"Ken Farmer" <KFarmer@NOSPAM.SpyderByte.com> wrote in message < > >>news:Xnr4c.90668$eL2.4850859@twister.southeast.rr.com... > >>3 > >>>"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message G > >>>news:pyo4c.18372$iDG1.3599@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...  > >>> 5 > >>>>"Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> wrote in message 2 > >>>>news:4052126b$0$294$636a15ce@news.free.fr... > >>>>I > >>>>>[from http://www.amd.com/us-en/0,,3715_10025,00.html?redir=CPBS12]  > >>>>> E > >>>>>AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers -  > >> > >> Delivering  > >>G > >>>>>high-performance solutions for today's most demanding enterprise  > >> > >> applications  > >>F > >>>>>The AMD OpteronT processor-based server, the Sun FireT V20z, is > >>
 > >> designed  > >> to  > >>E > >>>>>deliver high performance for today's most demanding enterprise  > >> > >> applications. > >> > >> <snip>> > >>) > >>>>>The Business Benefits to Customers  > >>>>> H > >>>>>Choice and flexibility. With the addition of this new line of AMD > >> > >> Opteron > >>I > >>>>>processor-based servers to Sun's line of entry systems, Sun offers  > >> > >> customers a > >>I > >>>>>choice of architectures and platforms for their "scale out" needs.  > >>>>>  > >>>> > >>>><snip> > >>>>H > >>>>Sun's choice of words, while sort of meaning the same as 'Alpha is > >> > >> dead',  > >>K > >>>>clearly does not piss customers off in the same way that Curly did in  > >>> 
 > >>>2001. > >>>  > >>>  > >>>You mean Sparc is dead? > >> > >>L > >>Reading between the lines, probably yes. Not this generation or the next/ > >>ones due, but most probably the ones after.  > >>N > >>Yet Sun has not said it in so many words, and not gone out of their way toP > >>tell their customers that they are killing a proven architecture in favor ofN > >>one that has yet to prove itself (funny, do I hear an echo of the Big Bang > >>here?).  > >>P > >>Sun has a CEO (McNeely) who understands the value of customers and the valueO > >>of marketing, unlike the CEO's of Digital, Compaq (excluding Pfeiffer), and N > >>HP. Were Sun to have announced a Sparc-icide, how long would it have taken > >>to spell 'bankruptcy'? > >  > > J > > As I see it, Suns Opteron boxes is an effort to try to enter the LinuxH > > market. Yes, they are porting Solaris to x86-64, but even Sun peopleG > > say that most of their Opteron boxes will be used and sold as Linux 
 > > boxes. > E > It may suprise you but Sun has just become the largest Linux vendor C > in terms of licences with JDS and none of that has anything to do G > with what hardware platform the servers run because JDS is a desktop.   E That may be true, I was just referring to what local Sun people speak D about here and Sun is not on the map for most people (at least here)% when they want to buy a Linux server.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:52:38 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> I Subject: Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers 0 Message-ID: <c4cc57$ph2$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> = > wrote in message news:c4bt0c$klq$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  > M > For a company that has lagged pretty much everyone in CPU performance for a M > very long time, it's interesting to read how wonderful and simple SPARC is.  >   C Well of course if you think that single CPU performance as measured = by SPECint and SPECfp are really measures that are usefull in B determining how fast your application will run on a given platform? then SPARC lags and has lagged Alpha for example for some time.   D But then that thinking is symptomatic of the Digital malaise, chooseC a benchmark that is meaningless to 99% of you customer base because @ it doesn't model their apps well and concentrate on building the? biggest and hairiest system to deliver against that test to the ; detriment of other metrics that might actually matter more.   E Its the antithesis of  balanced system design, something that Digital D and Compaq only managed with the ES40 and which belatedly HP seem toA have delivered despite not really wanting to with the GS1280. Sad G because only getting it right at the third attempt could be one reason   why Alpha died.   A So currently SPARC has better per CPU throughput and better total , throughput than Itanium and Power on SAP SD.  F The same performance as Itanium in SPECrate_int and better performance
 than Power4+.   D Worse peformance than Itanium on SPECrate_fp but better than Power4+  7 The same performance as Itanium and Power4+ on SPECJBB.   > Sadly the second measure is historically one of Digitals faves. well at least the single CPU iteration anyway.    J > Bill Joy is to Jesse Lipcon in what way?  A leading indicator.  Decipher > that.  >   D You may not have noticed but Andy Bechtolsheim Sun Employee number 1E has just returned to Sun. Most people who know and of course thats me B but not you consider Andy to have been as influential if not more / influential than Bill Joy in Sun's development.   B Sort of ruins you rats leaving the sinking ship hypothesis doesn't it.   C But then most of your theories end in ruins don't they Freddy, this  week has been no exception.    regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:06:22 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> ( Subject: Re: Athlon 64 vs Opteron: diff?8 Message-ID: <giji601cuu90r7aoda6igcrsm64a2afjul@4ax.com>  E On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:57:30 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy . <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:   >Nigel Barker wrote:6 >> On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:55:39 +0000, Andrew Harrison- >> <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote:  >>   >>   >>>Didier Morandi wrote: >>>  >>> M >>>>Could someone please share some light on the differences between the AMD  ) >>>>Athlon-64 and the Opteron processors?  >>>> >>> C >>>Athlon-64 is for single CPU systems, Opteron is for SMP systems.  >>   >>   >> Small SMP systems.  > . >No any SMP system, same as Itanium, or do you, >think that you could build a very large SMP% >system using a single frontside Bus.  > . >If you do then a career in marketing beacons. > . >Just as a hint and tip, peddling the HP party. >line in Opteron and Itanium isn't a good idea( >because the party line isn't very good. >  >Regards >Andrew Harrison  I Thanks for the advice:-) I wasn't peddling anyone's party line I was just N pointing out that unlike some other chip architectures (SPARC, Alpha, PA-RISC,P Itanium) that there are no large Opteron SMP systems shipping. I know that thereL are 4-ways & may well be 8-ways shipping today but AFAIK there are no larger+ systems available. Hence small SMP systems.    -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:48:00 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ( Subject: Re: Athlon 64 vs Opteron: diff?0 Message-ID: <c4bqa1$jnl$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Nigel Barker wrote: G > On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:57:30 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >  >>Nigel Barker wrote:  >>6 >>>On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:55:39 +0000, Andrew Harrison- >>><andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote:  >>>  >>>  >>>  >>>>Didier Morandi wrote:  >>>> >>>> >>>>N >>>>>Could someone please share some light on the differences between the AMD * >>>>>Athlon-64 and the Opteron processors? >>>>>  >>>>D >>>>Athlon-64 is for single CPU systems, Opteron is for SMP systems. >>>  >>>  >>>Small SMP systems.  >>/ >>No any SMP system, same as Itanium, or do you - >>think that you could build a very large SMP & >>system using a single frontside Bus. >>/ >>If you do then a career in marketing beacons.  >>/ >>Just as a hint and tip, peddling the HP party / >>line in Opteron and Itanium isn't a good idea ) >>because the party line isn't very good.  >>	 >>Regards  >>Andrew Harrison  >  > K > Thanks for the advice:-) I wasn't peddling anyone's party line I was just P > pointing out that unlike some other chip architectures (SPARC, Alpha, PA-RISC,R > Itanium) that there are no large Opteron SMP systems shipping. I know that thereN > are 4-ways & may well be 8-ways shipping today but AFAIK there are no larger- > systems available. Hence small SMP systems.  >   ? The fact that there are currently no large SMP systems based on A Opteron is not an issue that is specific to the Opteron processor A any more than it is an issue for Itanium, SPARC, Alpha etc OEM's.   9 Itanium uses FSB, clearly of no use for large SMP systems F hence the variety of different interconnects used by HP/SGI/NEC/Unisys- to connect FSB based 2/4 way building blocks.    Ditto for SPARC/Power.   regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:23:48 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> ( Subject: Re: Athlon 64 vs Opteron: diff?1 Message-ID: <oahac.1992$nE1.587@news.cpqcorp.net>   K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; wrote in message news:c4bqa1$jnl$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  > Nigel Barker wrote: I > > On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:57:30 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 2 > > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: > >  > >  > >>Nigel Barker wrote:  > >>8 > >>>On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:55:39 +0000, Andrew Harrison/ > >>><andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote:  > >>>  > >>>  > >>>  > >>>>Didier Morandi wrote:  > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>K > >>>>>Could someone please share some light on the differences between the  AMD , > >>>>>Athlon-64 and the Opteron processors? > >>>>>  > >>>>F > >>>>Athlon-64 is for single CPU systems, Opteron is for SMP systems. > >>>  > >>>  > >>>Small SMP systems.  > >>1 > >>No any SMP system, same as Itanium, or do you / > >>think that you could build a very large SMP ( > >>system using a single frontside Bus. > >>1 > >>If you do then a career in marketing beacons.  > >>1 > >>Just as a hint and tip, peddling the HP party 1 > >>line in Opteron and Itanium isn't a good idea + > >>because the party line isn't very good.  > >> > >>Regards  > >>Andrew Harrison  > >  > > H > > Thanks for the advice:-) I wasn't peddling anyone's party line I was justI > > pointing out that unlike some other chip architectures (SPARC, Alpha,  PA-RISC,I > > Itanium) that there are no large Opteron SMP systems shipping. I know 
 that thereI > > are 4-ways & may well be 8-ways shipping today but AFAIK there are no  larger/ > > systems available. Hence small SMP systems.  > >  > A > The fact that there are currently no large SMP systems based on C > Opteron is not an issue that is specific to the Opteron processor C > any more than it is an issue for Itanium, SPARC, Alpha etc OEM's.  > ; > Itanium uses FSB, clearly of no use for large SMP systems H > hence the variety of different interconnects used by HP/SGI/NEC/Unisys/ > to connect FSB based 2/4 way building blocks.  >  > Ditto for SPARC/Power. >   L Not entirely true, the EV7 design is what Opteron one day hopes to achieve -E the 4 interprocessor links allow not just a 4-way system, but forms a D glueless network where many chips can be connected in a mesh without external logic.   K The Opteron allows 4-processor glueless connection, which is why it is easy L for people to build 1-4 way systems.  Building chipsets for larger scale SMPL or NUMA designs is something that OEM's like Sun will have to develop - justJ like HP does for it's cellular systems with Itanium.  These generally takeK time and money and won't happen overnight.  It's where the rubber will meet J the road and we'll see if the extended x86 can scale to large CPU counts -> or if the Opteron strategy will be forced into scale-out only.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2004 03:07:34 -0800$ From: anantha.prabhu@hp.com (Ananth)3 Subject: Device names for Fibre channel adapters... = Message-ID: <e0273250.0403300307.150efaaf@posting.google.com>    Hi,   D What will be the device names for the fibre channel adapters(FC HBA)F on a OVMS system? Which FC HBA's are supported/working on OVMS system?  C Is dvice naming convention for a FC disk is different than the scsi  disk?    Regards  Ananth   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:22:19 GMT % From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> 7 Subject: Re: Device names for Fibre channel adapters... 9 Message-ID: <vofac.47604$4B1.37464@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>   / Ananth <anantha.prabhu@hp.com> wrote in message 7 news:e0273250.0403300307.150efaaf@posting.google.com...  > Hi,  > F > What will be the device names for the fibre channel adapters(FC HBA)H > on a OVMS system? Which FC HBA's are supported/working on OVMS system?  8 PGx0 is the convention.   PGA0, PGB0, PGC0, PGD0....Etc.4 Most dual connected systems only have PGA0 and PGB0.D At the P00>>> prompt you can SHO DEV PG to look at the WWID's of the	 adapters. ? At the VMS level.  SHO DEV FG /FULL will show you the adapters. E SHO DEV PG does not give you much besides the fact that the device is  online.   I Your disks show up as $1$DGAnnnn where nnnn = OS LUN ID that you assigned 	 the unit.    > E > Is dvice naming convention for a FC disk is different than the scsi  > disk?  > 	 > Regards  > Ananth   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2004 12:02:51 +0200' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) ( Subject: Gigabit Ethernet on DPersonalWS+ Message-ID: <UsZrI$oNIwCX@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   B In a LAVC Alpha-cluster we want to speed up access to disks served; via 100Mb Ethernet, and intend to add Gigabit Ethernet via  1 DEGPA-TA or DEGXA-TA twisted pair PCI interfaces. E Since older workstations like DPW433-au,DPW500-au,XP1000 are present, F but DEGXA-TA is not included as supported options, I would appreciate = to hear from good or bad experiences with these combinations.     VMS version >7.3 . 0  DEGPA-TA vs. DEGXA-TA (PCI slot restrictions ?)'  Boot (non-)support would be no issue.  0  Cluster communication support or network only ?  6  (I've read the ask-the-wizard answers for this topic,#  but they are all for newer Alpha).    "  Thanks in advance for any input !    --  >    Joseph "Sepp" Huber, Muenchen   http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:02:32 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> # Subject: RE: HTML favourite editor? 9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIOEEPDAAA.tom@kednos.com>    Hi Thi,   
 Any progress?      -----Original Message-----F   From: ttn@gnufans.net [mailto:ttn@gnufans.net]On Behalf Of Thien-Thi   Nguyen(   Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 8:08 AM   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com %   Subject: Re: HTML favourite editor?       '   "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:    H   > Emacs runs almost everywhere, although getting the latest version of2   > it and its sibling Xemacs on VMS is a problem.   3   it is a problem that i'm working on.  stay tuned.       thi       --- (   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B   Version: 6.0.471 / Virus Database: 269 - Release Date: 4/10/2003    --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:45:18 -0500 * From: "Brian Tillman" <tillmabg@yahoo.com># Subject: RE: HTML favourite editor? ' Message-ID: <01325E6E.C22236@yahoo.com>   > >   From: ttn@gnufans.net [mailto:ttn@gnufans.net]On Behalf Of= >   Thien-Thi   Nguyen Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 8:08 AM  >   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ' >   Subject: Re: HTML favourite editor? 	 ..snip...  >   --- * >   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> >   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).D >   Version: 6.0.471 / Virus Database: 269 - Release Date: 4/10/2003  2 Thi seems to have a badly out-of-date copy of AVG. --  
 Brian Tillman    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:37:18 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> # Subject: RE: HTML favourite editor? 9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIAEFEDAAA.tom@kednos.com>   - I think that was from my orignal mail to Thi.      -----Original Message-----1   From: Brian Tillman [mailto:tillmabg@yahoo.com] '   Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:45 AM    To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com %   Subject: RE: HTML favourite editor?       @   >   From: ttn@gnufans.net [mailto:ttn@gnufans.net]On Behalf Of?   >   Thien-Thi   Nguyen Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 8:08 AM    >   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com )   >   Subject: Re: HTML favourite editor?    ..snip... 	   >   --- ,   >   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.@   >   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).F   >   Version: 6.0.471 / Virus Database: 269 - Release Date: 4/10/2003   4   Thi seems to have a badly out-of-date copy of AVG.   --     Brian Tillman       --- (   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B   Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004    --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:44:55 -0500 * From: "Brian Tillman" <tillmabg@yahoo.com># Subject: RE: HTML favourite editor? ' Message-ID: <01326650.C22236@yahoo.com>    Tom Linden wrote:   / > I think that was from my orignal mail to Thi.   3 No, your copy of AVG is newer (but still outdated):    >   --- * >   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> >   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).D >   Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 >  > --- ( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 --  
 Brian Tillman    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2004 08:49:27 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso). Subject: Intel, Intergrag, Itanium and OpenVMS= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0403300849.24c9ea88@posting.google.com>   < This lawsuit from Intergraph against Intel worries me a lot.< No sell of Itanium systems x Intel paying a few 200 milions.= What is the overall cost of this chip design ? Is it worthing  for Intel ?    Click !   ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15057   : "Intergraph picks up $225 million in Intel patent dispute   . Dell settles, HP and Gateway must be unsettled    3 By INQUIRER staff: tera-feira 30 maro 2004, 14:21   E  INTERGRAPH has finally settled its patent legal action against Intel  over its Clipper patents. F And in the process Dell has been let off the hook, although Intergraph is still suing HP and Gateway.  F The firm said that under the agreement, Intel will pay Intergraph $125B million on April 5th, another and another $25 million on July 5th,1 October 5th, January 5th 2005 and April 5th 2005.  (...)  "      Regards    FC   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2004 07:55:32 -08000 From: keith.cayemberg@arcor.de (Keith Cayemberg)- Subject: Re: Is Common lisp available on VMS? = Message-ID: <f64e50ca.0403300755.1895be9f@posting.google.com>   s Bruce Nagel <nagelbh@iceland.freeshell.org> wrote in message news:<slrnc6c7q2.1gm.nagelbh@iceland.freeshell.org>... L > I'm wondering if there are versions of Common Lisp compilers that will run > under VMS. > 	 > Thanks,  > Bruce   	 Hi Bruce,   3 if you check out part 4 of the Lisp FAQ at faqs.org @ (http://www.faqs.org/faqs/lisp-faq/) you will find the following info...    ****** Poplog Common Lisp:   <    Poplog Common Lisp is an incremental compiler and X-based development E    environment for Common Lisp. Poplog Common Lisp provides a compact  and F    memory-efficient implementation which has recently been upgraded toE    include support for CLtL2, including a native CLOS implementation.   =    The Poplog environment also includes efficient incremental 	 compilers F    for Prolog, Standard ML and Pop-11, a language-sensitive editor andC    supports easy dynamic linking to C, Fortran etc. Poplog has over  400     customers in 36 countries.   C    Poplog runs on a variety of platforms including Sun SPARC (SunOS  4.1,B    Solaris 2.x), HP-RISC (HP-UX), Silicon Graphics (IRIX), PC UNIX (SCO, C    Linux), DECstation (Ultrix) and under VMS on both VAX and Alpha.   !    For more information, contact: 0        Integral Solutions Ltd, 3 Campbell Court,1        Bramley, Basingstoke, Hants. RG26 5EG, UK. 6        Call +44 (0)1256 882028, fax +44 (0)1256 882182        Email isl@isl.co.uk      In North America, contact: :        Computable Functions, Inc., 35 South Orchard Drive,        Amherst, MA 01002. +        Call 413-253-7637, fax 413-545-1249.  ******  = Poplog appears to now be available as Open-Source Freeware... 8 http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/freepoplog.html http://www.poplog.org/" http://openpoplog.sourceforge.net/+ http://sourceforge.net/projects/openpoplog/     < The following are some links to other Lisp dialects with VMS implementations...   Scheme(84?) / ftp://ftp.cs.indiana.edu/pub/scheme-repository/   
 SCM Scheme( http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/scm/  	 RULEWORKS 8 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware50/ruleworks/   Elisp - GNU Emacs Lisp9 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware60/emacs-21_2/    Franz Lisp Opus 38 distribution ` http://gopher.quux.org:70/Archives/usenet-a-news/NET.lisp/82.03.27_ucbarpa.999_net.lang.lisp.txt   Cheers!  Keith Cayemberg ) IBM Business Services - Hannover, Germany    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:00:34 -0700 6 From: "Phillip D. Williams" <dwilliams296@comcast.net> Subject: Re: New software added 0 Message-ID: <-bWdnXCeTvWgNfTd4p2dnA@comcast.com>   Hello  The ip address is 68.35.167.136 % username is vaxvms no password needed 7 "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl> wrote in message 4 news:c41tk2$2dofts$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de... > E > "Phillip D. Williams" <dwilliams296@comcast.net> schreef in bericht , > news:x6SdnSBfKczDRf7dRVn-gw@comcast.com...	 > > Hello K > > I just added VMS 6.2 (binaries only) and moved the freeware 6.0 over to  > the L > > ftp server. If I can find the 6.0/6.1 binaries I will add them also. I'mK > > will add a csdl for 6.2 later this month or early next month. Since 7.X  is6 > > already available on line I decide not to add 7.X. > > Problems/concerns e-mail me  > > Phillip  > >  > > 	 > Phillip  > 3 > what was the IP address (and the usercode) again? J > I am particularly interested in the VAX/VMS V6.2 binaries since I do not > have them. >  > Hans >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:18:45 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> , Subject: Re: OT: HP embraces Linux even more0 Message-ID: <c4be1l$fj7$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:W > In article <4068384C.3090001@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:  > C >>I believe you are confused, StarOffice is Sun, OpenOffice is GPL.  >  > @ >    OpenOffice and StarOffice had the same base.  Users tell me: >    OpenOffice has far exceeded StarOffice in capability. >   9 Users are wrong, I run both and OpenOffice is a subset of  StarOffice.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:23:56 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> , Subject: Re: OT: HP embraces Linux even more0 Message-ID: <c4bebd$fo0$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >> Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote:  >>, >>> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >>>  >>>> Bob Koehler wrote:  >>>>9 >>>>> In article <4062868B.FABD2425@istop.com>, JF Mezei n) >>>>> <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:a >>>>>eD >>>>>> Seems HP will now start to offer more Linux boxes, including  >>>>>> desktops toE >>>>>> ENTERPRISE CUSTOMERS ONLY, due to high demand from enterprise S >>>>>> customers forG >>>>>> lower cost servers/desktops. These will not be available to the e >>>>>> consumer market.  >>>>>> >>>>>s >>>>>tK >>>>>    Will they ship OpenOfiice on them?  Or are they doing something tos, >>>>>    avoid depending on Sun's good will? >>>>>t1 >>>> What like develop their own Office product ?. >>>i >>>  >>>n >>> E >>> I believe you are confused, StarOffice is Sun, OpenOffice is GPL.E >>>L >>A >> No its you who is confused, StarOffice is OpenOffice plus someu> >> commercial additions. If you look on the openoffice.org web? >> site you will discover that a very very high % of the ownersb> >> of indevidual project streams have @sun.com email addresses= >> mainly because Sun does most of the openoffice developmentv >  > K > But the difference is that with StarOffice, they would need to depend on  E > Suns 'Goodwill' where as with OpenOffice, they can be just takers, nI > participate, or fork their own GPL efforts but none of the later three s > make then 'Dependent on Sun.'M >   < Having access to the source code is one thing, having access7 to the people who developed the source code is another.f  > The bulk of the OpenOffice/StarOffice developers work for Sun.  C Your point also cuts both ways, any development that HP for examplesD did to OpenOffice because it is released under GPL is also available to everyone else including Sun.k  @ Sun clearly doesn't have an issue with that, we are after all byA far the largest contributor of IP to the OpenSource community, it-E remains to be seen if HP who have made much more modest contributions0 are like minded.   Regardsi Andrew Harrisona > Barryu >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:45:50 +0100uO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> , Subject: Re: OT: HP embraces Linux even more0 Message-ID: <c4bfkf$g63$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <c498dh$msu$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  > . >>What like develop their own Office product ? >  >  >    Like they'd be the first? > E >    OBTW, did Sun ever get the OpenOffice/Linux systems on WalMart's 
 >    shelves?  >   5 Wallmart currently sells complete systems loaded with 6 JDS which includes StarOffice. Not being a US resident: I don't know if they are available in all Wallmarts stores' but you can get them from wallmart.com.   c http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product_listing.gsp?cat=132690&path=0%3A3944%3A3951%3A41937%3A1326902   Regards  Andrew Harrison2   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:37:12 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>5, Subject: Re: OT: HP embraces Linux even more0 Message-ID: <c4bikp$h5v$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Tom Linden wrote:  >  >   -----Original Message-----+ >   From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 2 >   [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]( >   Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:34 AM >   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-0 >   Subject: Re: OT: HP embraces Linux even more >    >    >   Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote:. >   > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >   >  >   >> Bob Koehler wrote:c >   >>; >   >>> In article <4062868B.FABD2425@istop.com>, JF Mezei $+ >   >>> <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:r >   >>> F >   >>>> Seems HP will now start to offer more Linux boxes, including  >   >>>> desktops toG >   >>>> ENTERPRISE CUSTOMERS ONLY, due to high demand from enterprise t >   >>>> customers forI >   >>>> lower cost servers/desktops. These will not be available to the s >   >>>> consumer market.a >   >>>> >   >>>  >   >>>rM >   >>>    Will they ship OpenOfiice on them?  Or are they doing something top. >   >>>    avoid depending on Sun's good will? >   >>>r3 >   >> What like develop their own Office product ?  >   >  >   > G >   > I believe you are confused, StarOffice is Sun, OpenOffice is GPL.n >   >  >   B >   No its you who is confused, StarOffice is OpenOffice plus some? >   commercial additions. If you look on the openoffice.org weba@ >   site you will discover that a very very high % of the owners? >   of indevidual project streams have @sun.com email addressesh? >   mainly because Sun does most of the openoffice development.r > $ > What are the commercial additions?C > Is there a compatibility matrix with, say, Office 2000 available?h > 9 The differences between StarOffice 7 and OpenOffice 1.1.0d   StarOffice 7 includes:   Adabas DBMSs& Commercial theasurus and spell checker  Additional templates and clipart0 Additional fonts including metrically equivalent' Windows fonts and Asian language fonts.l4 Additional document filters Wordperfect for example.  8 How detailed do you want the compatibility matrix to be.  > At a functional level StarOffice provides, Word, Calc, Impress> Draw and DBMS. Word, Calc and Impress are file compatible with= Word/Excel/Powerpoint. StarOffice Draw is not compatible withe? Visio nor does it have the capabilites of Visio however it is aa0 much much better drawing editor than Powerpoint.  B The major areas of difference in the apps that support Office file formats are:  @ No support for MS Office macros, the documents will load but youE cannot execute the Macro's. StarOffice has its own Macro environment.d  2 No support for password protected MS Office files.  H MS Truetype font's which you can download and install from MS's web site. but which are not distributed with StarOffice.  F Native StarOffice files are stored in a compressed (zipped) XML formatE one side effect of this is that they can be 1/10th of the size of thea( same document saved as a MS Offcie file.  H API's are available from OpenOffice.org to allow you to manipulate theseC files directly removing one reason for using MS Office type macros.w  5 http://wwws.sun.com/software/star/staroffice/faq.html      Regardsi Andrew Harrisond >  >    >   Regardsa >   Andrew Harrison  >    >   ---e* >   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> >   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).D >   Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 >    > ---t( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 >    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2004 09:09:30 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o, Subject: Re: OT: HP embraces Linux even more3 Message-ID: <C7Ox0BKw3BAj@eisner.encompasserve.org>g   In article <c4bfkf$g63$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > e > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product_listing.gsp?cat=132690&path=0%3A3944%3A3951%3A41937%3A132690i >   E    Cool.  But who's Microtel?  Never heard of them before.  There webtH    site (www.microtel.com) doesn't say how long they've been in business%    or how many units they've shipped.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:06:07 +0100OO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>$, Subject: Re: OT: HP embraces Linux even more0 Message-ID: <c4c5tf$nis$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <c4bfkf$g63$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > e >>http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product_listing.gsp?cat=132690&path=0%3A3944%3A3951%3A41937%3A132690n >> >  > G >    Cool.  But who's Microtel?  Never heard of them before.  There web J >    site (www.microtel.com) doesn't say how long they've been in business' >    or how many units they've shipped.e > % No idea, we just supply the software.-  A Though I think that Walmart have been using them for some time asi@ the platform for their earlier Linux offerings based on lindows.   Lindows ships with OpenOffice.   regards. Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2004 09:21:33 -0800' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson)oM Subject: Re: Professional Agitator - Harrison, Andrew. Confimed on sun.com!!!t= Message-ID: <734da31c.0403300921.49121e68@posting.google.com>t   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c496kb$maf$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...l > Bob Ceculski wrote: u > > Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<c3fl1u$4sv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > >  > >>David Svensson wrote:e > >> > >>` > >>>JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<404CD136.84C8780A@istop.com>... > >>>  > >>>> > >>>>David Svensson wrote:> > >>>> > >>>>? > >>>>>to react to it like you do. Those who still use VMS needaH > >>>>>encouragement, not a bully person setting them straight. I cannotD > >>>>>understand how you can take posts from Bob Ceculski seriosly. > >>>>R > >>>>Hey, don't blast Bob.  While his posts are overly enthousiastic, he seems to/ > >>>>be defending VMS, not HP's bad decisions.  > >>>r > >>>>I > >>>I don't mind Bob, it is OK with me, and it is also funny that AndrewAG > >>>feels that he needs to answer :), but I don't find the discussionse  > >>>that follow so interesting. > >> > >>3 > >>So you are happy about the image Bob portrays ?a > >>% > >>Is he the classic OpenVMS admin ?  > >>0 > >>Lets hope not but some of his postings would/ > >>make horribly usefull collateral for anyone 1 > >>trying intent on showing that OpenVMS is justs3 > >>a marginal OS for people with very very strange 
 > >>ideas. > >>1 > >>I like Bob as well, his posts are normally so 5 > >>full of BS that correcting them is a pleasure andt6 > >>one that doesn't require me to break into a sweat. > >> > >>Regards  > >>Andrew Harrisona > >  > > 6 > > calling vms a marginal os is total bs ... which is' > > all you spout off on this board ...i >  > 3 > Bob try re reading my posting, you will find that * > I didn't post what you thought I posted. > 3 > Lets not add an inability to parse sentences to ay# > rather long list of other faults.e  6 Childish and stupid pointing out other peoples faults.: Some people have dyslexia, but you most likely don't care.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:00:20 +0100'O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> M Subject: Re: Professional Agitator - Harrison, Andrew. Confimed on sun.com!!!e0 Message-ID: <c4ccjk$pio$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote:d > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c496kb$maf$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...e > 3 >>Lets not add an inability to parse sentences to ar# >>rather long list of other faults.s >  > 8 > Childish and stupid pointing out other peoples faults.< > Some people have dyslexia, but you most likely don't care.  2 Childish and stupid claiming that people have said5 something that they did not and not being prepared to,& admit that you missread their posting.   Don't you think !s   Regardsd Andrew Harrisono   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:36:07 +0100f* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>! Subject: Re: Quorum Disk Questione& Message-ID: <c4bikn$nm$1@lore.csc.com>   Z wrote: > ) > konabear <maurert@ameritech.net> wrote:rI > : If the there is no mirroring and no shadowing then the system disk ispM > : arguably a good candidate for the quorum disk and using it for the quorum 2 > : disk doesn't introduce a new point of failure. > > > I don't understand ... why have a quorum disk at all if it's > a device that's not shared?i > > > Why not just give the node with the system disk (that you're5 > thinking of making your quorum disk) an extra vote?   G That is suggested in the VMS documentation set, so correct observation.nG If only one system is capable of servicing the quorum disk's vote, then # better give the vote to the system.t  F So, for the original questioner, you can see why a lowly quorum system( (typically workstation) is often chosen.  E However the "dependency" issue is an interesting one. e.g. the quorum D disk could be the one with the cluster shared files such as UAF, QueH files, that sort of thing. Theoretically, without that disk, the clusterH can't do much (no-one properly log in etc.) There is nothing to stop youE taking those files off the system disk. Protecting or otherwise thoseuE files in a hardware raidset of some form is a decision taken locally.e   -- h? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer SciencesS nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2004 05:28:31 -0800* From: denny.rich@swagelok.com (Denny Rich)! Subject: Re: Quorum Disk Questionh< Message-ID: <d28306e.0403300528.29f8e5e2@posting.google.com>  p "konabear" <maurert@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:<2e4ac.18328$t16.9808059@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>...G > If the there is no mirroring and no shadowing then the system disk is  [ S N I P ]   B  watcher gains nothing by having a quorum disk.   "Both" as in two quorumK > disk watchers (rat hole alert) because IMHO quorum disks are for clustersoG > with only two voting members.  IMHO if there are more than two votingl) > members then I'd go SANS a quorum disk.n >  > Todd >  >  >   E I always include a quorum disk. This way, the cluster can be run withd: from 1 to N nodes, where N is the normal complement.  At 2B installations where I've worked, we had 5 and 8 node clusters thatD needed either half the nodes up, or a bunch of what I consider silly: messing with conversational boots and on-the-fly parameter adjustments.  D If there's trouble or maintenance, I vote every time for the ability? to bring up a single-node cluster, with no manual intervention.n   That's why I like quorum disks.r   dennyO   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:12:31 -0500r* From: "Brian Tillman" <tillmabg@yahoo.com>! Subject: RE: Quorum Disk Questiono' Message-ID: <013255D7.C22236@yahoo.com>e  & Nic Clews [mailto:sendspamhere@ wrote:  < > That is suggested in the VMS documentation set, so correctD > observation. If only one system is capable of servicing the quorum7 > disk's vote, then better give the vote to the system.,  F If only one system is capable of seeing the quorum disk, why have one? -- e
 Brian Tillman    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2004 08:04:03 -0800- From: martin.platts@cdl.co.uk (Martin Platts)t/ Subject: RMS Journaling - good/bad experiences?p= Message-ID: <b367fb16.0403300804.5739d8c2@posting.google.com>h  A I'm looking at using RMS journalling to provide some simple (moresE current than restoring last backups) DR between two sites - are therea< any good or bad experiences out there? Any (beyond expected)# performance issues with it as well?-  E I had to get the manuals downloaded from the web as they don't appearyF on the documentation CD's (that I can find) - and also don't appear toD have been updated since 1993 (but maybe if its perfect/works already then no update is needed).   Martin.n   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2004 10:44:05 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e3 Subject: Re: RMS Journaling - good/bad experiences?e3 Message-ID: <8GP1KMpA$aPS@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  m In article <b367fb16.0403300804.5739d8c2@posting.google.com>, martin.platts@cdl.co.uk (Martin Platts) writes:oC > I'm looking at using RMS journalling to provide some simple (more<G > current than restoring last backups) DR between two sites - are thereM> > any good or bad experiences out there? Any (beyond expected)% > performance issues with it as well?  > G > I had to get the manuals downloaded from the web as they don't appearnH > on the documentation CD's (that I can find) - and also don't appear toF > have been updated since 1993 (but maybe if its perfect/works already > then no update is needed).  > RMS journalling is very much a System Integrated Product, with; code spread throughout the RMS codebase.  While significanta< changes to RMS require changes to the journalling code, thatB does not affect the user interface described in the documentation.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2004 09:56:07 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)w% Subject: Re: Securing files under VMSm3 Message-ID: <wfuJFG8dKdYD@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <87y8po1dvf.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:+ > "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes:t > C >> As an additional reference, here is pointer to VMS security home 3 >> site, which includes pointers to the CDSA doc`s:s > 2 >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/security.html > G > Couls someone from VMS product managment be so good as to explain whyaF > neither VMS Encryption, nor SEVMS are metioned here? God forbid thatE > someone might actualy consider buying or using a VMS product. Can'ts > have that, can we.  D VMS publicity priorities have never been to sell software solely forD existing machines.  The latest version of SEVMS is V6.2 as I recall, running only on older hardware.i  G I am sure they would be happy to update it to V8.2 given enough market,oC but the military market likely to want mandatory access control haseF found that computers are now cheap and they can buy separate computers! to maintain various compartments.n   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2004 09:57:27 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)l% Subject: Re: Securing files under VMSa3 Message-ID: <415fCM+C31XH@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  S In article <c3kv9n$2f1m$1@biggoron.nerim.net>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:v  P > The highest sensitive data I ever dealt with were Strategic Targets locations L > within the French Army and salary data (don't laugh, salary data are high   > sensitive data in my Country).  B It is possible that an insider could be bribed to take an interest in targeting locations.y  E It is guaranteed tht many insiders will be interested in salary data.s   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2004 09:13:20 -0800' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson)  Subject: Re: Sun On The Run?= Message-ID: <734da31c.0403300913.10f223c7@posting.google.com>o   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c495nk$m2q$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...i > David Svensson wrote:>u > > Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<c3fgrl$3dm$4@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...w > >  > >>David Svensson wrote:n > >> > >> > >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c2i1p2$pob$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... > >>>a > >>>y > >>>>Rob Young wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>In article <c2hpjr$mtb$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:s > >>>>>  > >>>>>o > >>>>>a > >>>>>>Daryl Jones wrote: > >>>>>o > >>>>>o > >>>>>>>Second:	 > >>>>>>>iM > >>>>>>>What is being done to SUN by LINUX it is the same thing SUN has beennN > >>>>>>>doing to HP, IBM, Compaq, and others and vise versa. Take over a DataM > >>>>>>>Center by initially cutting its prices and then later boosting them. + > >>>>>>>Business as usual in the IT world.u	 > >>>>>>>d > >>>>>>$ > >>>>>>Provide examples if you can. > >>>>>> > >>>>>s > >>>>>aB > >>>>>	Really.  That claim is misleading.  I personally don't see? > >>>>>	Linux getting a whole lot more expensive and Intel kit  E > >>>>>	has been stable or declining for years in price.  I seriouslyeH > >>>>>	doubt HP boosts their Intel kit prices - Dell is always lurking! > >>>>>  > >>>> > >>>>G > >>>>>http://www.forbes.com/technology/2004/03/03/cz_dl_0303linux.htmls > >>>>> U > >>>>>Same goes for Jorge Borbolla, chief information officer at AutoTradeCenter, anvT > >>>>>online auto wholesaler in Menlo Park, Calif.--Sun let him go without a fight.R > >>>>>Borbolla just replaced all of his Sun computers with HP Intel-based serversT > >>>>>running Linux. "It was the money," Borbolla says. "The Linux systems were 40%& > >>>>>the cost of the Sun machines."  > >>>>>c > >>>>D > >>>>SPARC boxes all include Solaris right to use licenses with the > >>>>systems. > >>>>K > >>>>HP x86 boxes don't include a commecrial Linux license and if you wantBK > >>>>to run almost any kind of commercial app you have to buy a commercial 6 > >>>>Linux release which ends up being mainly Redhat. > >>>>F > >>>>RedHat AS which is what most customers end up with costs between? > >>>>$1499 and $2499 per year so on a cheap HP you add another. > >>>>$4.5-$7.5K.R > >>>>C > >>>>This means that low end x86 boxes actually end up costing ~2x3  > >>>>the cost of a low end Sun. > >>>>@ > >>>>Of course if you only consider the hardware costs then the< > >>>>Sun's may be more expensive but then you have to run a> > >>>>community version of Linux and you cannot do that if you% > >>>>want supported commercial apps.w > >>>>D > >>>>Of course if you are smart you add up the cost of the hardware# > >>>>................. and the OS.y > >>>>
 > >>>>regardst > >>>>Andrew Harrisonc > >>>D > >>>oG > >>>Are you saying that the world is screwed and don't understand it'sLI > >>>best? I am seeing lots of sites that have been and are replacing SunhD > >>>Sparc servers with x86 Linux servers. Most of this replacing is > >>>because of costs. > >> > >>+ > >>Absolutely correct do you want a prize.  > >  > >  > > Yes. > >  > > 3 > >>Replacing old Sun's with new PC's running Linuxh5 > >>may well save money, but then replacing old Sun's ) > >>with new Sun's would also save money.o > >  > >  > > That is true.E > >  > > 2 > >>Chosing new Server running Linux as opposed to7 > >>new Sun's running Solaris is unlikely to save moneys7 > >>unless you use free Linux and you can't if you wanti% > >>supported apps or a supported OS.- > >  > > A > > RedHat and Suse have pretty good enterprise support nowadays.0+ > > Oracle/DB2 support Linux installations. # > > Those two are cheaper on Linux.d > >  > > > But only if you buy RedHat AS, the free to download versions? > of SuSe and Fedora do not have enterprise support and this isrB > also one of the reasons why they also don't have much in the way$ > of commercial SW support for them. > B > Also Oracle and DB2 are not cheaper on Linux they are cheaper on@ > any workgroup class server In Oracles the cheapest 10G licenseA > per CPU is Oracle Standard Edtion One this is available for any/. > 2 way system running Linux, Windows or UNIX. > J > http://oraclestore.oracle.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=15105 > F > The next cheapest option is Standard Edition, this is also supported, > on any 4 way system, UNIX, Windows, Linux. >  > F > > And as you say free Linux, there are many installations today thatC > > used to be under support contracts that today run Linux without G > > support contracts. That is a reality that hurts the commercial UNIX I > > systems (though it may be scary). I recently saw a hospital replacingrJ > > fully supported Digital UNIX installations with "do it yourself" Linux > > installations. > >  > I > If that is that case then these people are in breach of their contract. H > If you run RedHat AS etc then you have to pay the subscription service9 > regardless of whether you actually want RedHat support.t  F They are not running RedHat AS, they were under support contracts whenF they ran non-Linux. Now they run Linux installations from distros thatF they download from the net. And, yes they do run for example Oracle on@ those installations. My point was that many who used to run withD enterprise support don't do that anymore, unless it is more critical systems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:57:58 +0100eO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>r Subject: Re: Sun On The Run?0 Message-ID: <c4ccf7$pio$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote:  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c495nk$m2q$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...1  I >>If that is that case then these people are in breach of their contract. H >>If you run RedHat AS etc then you have to pay the subscription service9 >>regardless of whether you actually want RedHat support.m >  > H > They are not running RedHat AS, they were under support contracts whenH > they ran non-Linux. Now they run Linux installations from distros thatH > they download from the net. And, yes they do run for example Oracle onB > those installations. My point was that many who used to run withF > enterprise support don't do that anymore, unless it is more critical
 > systems.  : Fine so now you are saying that they are running Oracle on> unsupported OS platforms. Remember Oracle do not support their4 DBMS products on any Free to Download Linux distros.  8 Now why does that sound almost as bad as being in breach of contract with RedHat ?????s  8 I am sure that there are people out there who operate on7 that basis but I doubt they are of any size or have any95 kind of technology audit process. And if they are anda9 do then the indeviduals involved should wake up screaming ! if they know whats good for them.d   regards. Andrew HarrisonG   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2004 03:10:16 -0800$ From: anantha.prabhu@hp.com (Ananth)I Subject: Re: System serivce to get the Host Bus Target Lun combination???-= Message-ID: <e0273250.0403300310.30cd0c44@posting.google.com>s   Hi,   E Thanks for the reply. I wanted to know the "Host bus target lun" of aeF device. For example I have connected a single tape drive to my system.A Lets assume that it has been shown as MKA200. Now using this name.? MKA200, can I get the "Host bus target lun" ids for this deviceoA programmatically. Is there any system service or library routine,i> which will return the "host bus target lun" ids of a connected device??   Regardsy Ananth    f "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> wrote in message news:<Jn8ac.47559$4B1.35870@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>... > Ananth > I > If you are trying to see what is at the other end of your Fibre channeltM > Adapter (HBA) I think that the short answer is NO!  At the VMS OS level, myeN > VMS system does not have any idea what is behind the storage controller thatE > is presenting a LUN to the VMS system.  It know the kind of storaged2 > controller, but not what the LUN is composed of. >  > Examples:0N > On an HSG80 storage controller where you are managing spindles.  If I have aM > 144 GB LUN being presented from the storage controller.  It could be any of  > the following combinations:l > 146GB x 2 (Mirrorset)n > 72GB x 3 (Raidset) > 36GB x 5 (Raidset) > 18GB x 9 (Raidset) > 146GB x 1 (JBOD) > 72GB x 2 (Stripeset) > 36GB x 4 (Stripeset) > 18GB x 8 (Stripeset) > (Striped mirrors... Etc.)sH > You can connect to the storage controller (CLI) and check what this isL > composed of.  There you can see the bus/target id of the disk drives.  YouL > can also install the Storageworks Agent on your VMS system that will allowM > it to talk to the storage controller, and you can query that way.  There iseM > also the unsupported HSZ$SCSITERM.EXE that might crash your system when youn8 > use it.  That is one of the reasons it is unsupported! >  > J > If you are talking about an EVA storage controller, You MUST use the SANH > Appliance to configure/talk to the EVA using the Command View EVA  GUIK > interface.  Your disk comes in 1GB increments that is a "logical/virtual"DM > LUN carved from a "Storage group" that is a group of 8 or more disk drives.eM > We use 2 storage groups of 120 disk drives in one EVA.  Your data is spreadh/ > across all of the disks in the storage group.n > G > I'm not sure about an XP1024 on VMS. We get our Demo unit next month.c >  > Mike Naime > 1 > Ananth <anantha.prabhu@hp.com> wrote in message 9 > news:e0273250.0403292031.5d5e2126@posting.google.com...o > > Hi,o > > H > > I need to know programatically the "Host Bus Target Lun" combinationF > > for a scsidevice connected to the OVMS system. Is there any system' > > service which will do this for me??  > >m > > Host --> HBA > > Bus --> SCSI bus > > Target --> Target SCSI idc > > Lun ---> Lun id. > >l > >  > > Thanks in advancea > > RegardsT
 > > Ananth   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:24:21 GMT,% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>sI Subject: Re: System serivce to get the Host Bus Target Lun combination???g9 Message-ID: <pqfac.47605$4B1.44250@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>o  / Ananth <anantha.prabhu@hp.com> wrote in messageC7 news:e0273250.0403300310.30cd0c44@posting.google.com...  > Hi,s >RG > Thanks for the reply. I wanted to know the "Host bus target lun" of ahH > device. For example I have connected a single tape drive to my system.C > Lets assume that it has been shown as MKA200. Now using this nameGA > MKA200, can I get the "Host bus target lun" ids for this device2C > programmatically. Is there any system service or library routine, @ > which will return the "host bus target lun" ids of a connected
 > device??  I Sorry.   You mentioned HBA in your original post.   I have only heard HBA ) used in reference to Fibre channel HBA's.    Mike  	 > Regardsa > Ananth >/ >l2 > "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> wrote in message5 news:<Jn8ac.47559$4B1.35870@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>...e
 > > Ananth > > K > > If you are trying to see what is at the other end of your Fibre channeliL > > Adapter (HBA) I think that the short answer is NO!  At the VMS OS level, myK > > VMS system does not have any idea what is behind the storage controllerw thatG > > is presenting a LUN to the VMS system.  It know the kind of storage04 > > controller, but not what the LUN is composed of. > >p
 > > Examples:bI > > On an HSG80 storage controller where you are managing spindles.  If Iu have aL > > 144 GB LUN being presented from the storage controller.  It could be any of > > the following combinations:- > > 146GB x 2 (Mirrorset)3 > > 72GB x 3 (Raidset) > > 36GB x 5 (Raidset) > > 18GB x 9 (Raidset) > > 146GB x 1 (JBOD) > > 72GB x 2 (Stripeset) > > 36GB x 4 (Stripeset) > > 18GB x 8 (Stripeset) > > (Striped mirrors... Etc.)6J > > You can connect to the storage controller (CLI) and check what this isI > > composed of.  There you can see the bus/target id of the disk drives.n You.H > > can also install the Storageworks Agent on your VMS system that will alloweL > > it to talk to the storage controller, and you can query that way.  There isK > > also the unsupported HSZ$SCSITERM.EXE that might crash your system whenI youf: > > use it.  That is one of the reasons it is unsupported! > >a > > L > > If you are talking about an EVA storage controller, You MUST use the SANJ > > Appliance to configure/talk to the EVA using the Command View EVA  GUI; > > interface.  Your disk comes in 1GB increments that is ar "logical/virtual"dG > > LUN carved from a "Storage group" that is a group of 8 or more diski drives.nH > > We use 2 storage groups of 120 disk drives in one EVA.  Your data is spread1 > > across all of the disks in the storage group.o > >UI > > I'm not sure about an XP1024 on VMS. We get our Demo unit next month.  > >c > > Mike Naime > >e3 > > Ananth <anantha.prabhu@hp.com> wrote in message ; > > news:e0273250.0403292031.5d5e2126@posting.google.com...r	 > > > Hi,J > > >eJ > > > I need to know programatically the "Host Bus Target Lun" combinationH > > > for a scsidevice connected to the OVMS system. Is there any system) > > > service which will do this for me??a > > >d > > > Host --> HBA > > > Bus --> SCSI bus > > > Target --> Target SCSI ide > > > Lun ---> Lun id. > > >  > > >d > > > Thanks in advance-
 > > > Regards- > > > Ananth   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 06:28:02 -0500l" From: Tony Reed <trljc@altern.org>& Subject: Re: The J F  M e z e i  F A Q: Message-ID: <5Rcac.35721$1A6.782189@news20.bellglobal.com>  8 In article <8sah60dn131s1pvie4eakpsc4hc1l7h7vt@4ax.com>,/  Brad Clarke <screwthespammers@spam.com> wrote:e  @ :Too bad they weren't as effective as the folks at Google abuse.  & Don't be coy, tell us the whole story. -- 6	 Tony Reed@ <trljc@altern.org>/ "'When you're outa luck in this man's country, >( you certainly are outa luck,' said Mac, 6 and for some reason they both laughed."  -- Dos Passos   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:04:45 +0100>* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>! Subject: Re: [ot?]Trademark Alpha & Message-ID: <c4bgpt$5j$1@lore.csc.com>   Don Sykes wrote: > H > This is a sad tale that may lead me to a bright, new career in the dog > walking industry.i    F OK, I'm not a legal expert, so take my response with the pinch of salt it deserves, however...   C Why not try an Internet search for all companies that have Alpha inGE their title, there's 100's in the UK alone, and I expect, as Alpha is C the first letter of the Greek Alphabet, so are many more in the US.g3 Probably as many called Omega... You get the point.   C Anyway, why don't you try informally contacting one of two of theseaF other "Alpha's", and if they have not had similar notice, then can youG counter sue that you're being victimized by this company and it's legaloD representation? Perhaps initially the informal threat of it may coolA them off (i.e. that the defence will be that no-one else has beenn asked).l  H On to "confusion", it's in my view virtually impossible to even mis-typeB a web address of theirs to get to yours, and the names are totally) different, and no I don't confuse either.   F So that is my approach. I would also ask for legal proof that your useE of the words "alpha software" are somehow damaging any other businessa) that also use the words "alpha software".b  E Alpha Tec does digital imaging software, have they had anything filed 
 against them?r  H Alpha Media... Oh, look, Alpha-Omega Software! Alpha CRC... You only get, to these on about page 12 or 13 of a Google.  C Incidentally on a 'net search, I see that that this company has hadH complaints for Spam.  C It is also probably verging on being anti competitive, searched are0% dominated by the company you mention.l  
 Good luck.   -- i? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot comk   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:56:52 GMTh3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)C! Subject: Re: [ot?]Trademark Alphao0 Message-ID: <8Ngac.1986$LB1.46@news.cpqcorp.net>  ? In article <BL5ac.44144$dD1.13226@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>, ?( Don Sykes <paladin@mydomain.com> writes:   ..H >Since I now have to prepare for a legal battle with a MUCH larger foe,  ..  G For better or worse, the best advice may be NOT to enter such a battle. F Even if you win, it is unlikely that the benefits of winning are worth- the cost -- you could spend a L_O_T of money./  F I would talk to a lawyer, and also talk the the "much larger foe" justJ in case there is room for compromise.  But I would be ready to cut-and-run# before the costs started adding up.:   -- 0J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2004 08:42:47 -08000 From: keith.cayemberg@arcor.de (Keith Cayemberg)! Subject: Re: [ot?]Trademark AlphaM< Message-ID: <f64e50ca.0403300842.a443e5a@posting.google.com>  X Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message news:<c4bgpt$5j$1@lore.csc.com>... > Don Sykes wrote: > > J > > This is a sad tale that may lead me to a bright, new career in the dog > > walking industry.  >  > H > OK, I'm not a legal expert, so take my response with the pinch of salt > it deserves, however...b >  . . .  . . .  > E > Incidentally on a 'net search, I see that that this company has hadf > complaints for Spam. . . .o . . .r >  > Good luck.  E I also think a little web research concerning their corporate historyu@ may be useful to you. A cursory check in Google Groups reveals a4 number of complaints about this firm. For example...  W http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=alphasoftware&btnG=Searchr  * with 515 results, and also specifically...  O http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=7gkolt%24i5i%40newsops.execpc.com&oe=UTF-8   : And also to specifically answer your question. I have beenB using/programming-on/teaching OpenVMS since 1981(and using Tops-10B before that). I have also conducted my own OpenVMS market researchF since about 1997. Alpha Software was unknown to me until you mentionedE them in your recent posting. In contrast, your company has been knownaF to me for a couple years. Ideed, I once made a posting about available4 graphics solutions for VMS which included your firm.  _ http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3a65a5c8.0309091217.4c05cfe1%40posting.google.com&oe=UTF-8s  ? I have never encountered one instance of confusion between yournA company and Alpha Software. Indeed, a Google Groups search of theeC COMP.OS.VMS collection back to 1994 results in ONE match. It's your  recent posting to COV...  p http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=alphasoftware&btnG=Search&meta=group%3Dcomp.os.vms     Cheers!s   Keith Cayembergl) IBM Business Services - Hannover, Germanyr   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:49:47 GMTi4 From: "Roert G. Schaffrath" <rschaffrath@yahoo.com>! Subject: Re: [ot?]Trademark Alphaf% Message-ID: <4069A52A.2E06@yahoo.com>f  G Not to get to OT (though this is tagged as OT anyhow).  This is a good lB question though I honestly believe it was due to terrible decisionE making on the part of DEC management and their failure to predict the.' future trends in the computer industry.l  F First and foremost, D|i|g|i|t|a|l had a terrible case of "Not InventedF Here" syndrome.  As a System's Engineer at the time, trying to supportH various systems including VAXen, connectivity was often very troubling. D I remember in the late 1980's attempting to install CDC Wren IV SCSI= drives in a MicroVAX II.  No SCSI support from Digital or any D forthcoming.  When Digital finally did start to take notice of SCSI,B they instead created DSSI!  If your non-DEC box did not speak someF flavor of DECnet, talking to it was next to impossible unless you used Kermit.   F In networking there were problems too.  In the early 90's, Digital wasF convinced that the seven layer OSI stack was the future and put all ofC there resources there.  I needed TCP/IP at the time to talk to UnixdA boxes and had to go to TGV in order to get connectivity.  The TGVtG software was a fine product but it was odd that I could not get it from4G Digital.  The lack of TCP/IP was also probably due to Digital's failure0G to grasp the lure and growth of Unix. When my firm finally shutdown allRD of our VAXen and switch to HP-UX, our maintenance and software costs. fell from around $600K/year to around $200K.    uF Finally, Digital failed to grasp the fact that PC's were going to takeE the world by storm.  Just as IBM missed the boat on Super-Mini's withuB companies like Digital, Data General, Wang and Prime making sales,D Digital failed to grasp the PC market.  I had about a dozen disklessA VAXMates that I had to support and they worked but did not acceptiF industry standard cards.  I went through several iterations of VAXMate= services (subsequently named PC Services and then Pathworks).n  B I was very sorry to see Digital fail and ultimately be absorbed byD Compaq (I kept 25 shares from 1987 to the Compaq takeover and lost aF small fortune though they were converted to Compaq stock and now HP). D However, I am glad to see at least something of it lives on and I doF enjoy "playing" with VMS with SIMH.  While I do not expect VMS to everH become a force in the industry as it once was, it is nice to see that itA will be an option on the Itanium platform.  Moving to a commodityhA platform (assuming Ititanic survives) is a good idea.  After all,w9 Microsoft made its money not on hardware but on software.'   Robert   Don Sykes wrote: > (snip)J > There is another troubling aspect. Was there a curse associated with Ken > Olsen ? Maybe one that said:G > "You will have great favor & wealth and for 35 years people will lovef
 > your works..J > But beware. As the century nears its end, all favor will be withheld andG > your works shall be ridiculed as "legacy" and anyone who continues toeH > promote your works shall be forever doomed; or at least marginalized." >  > -- >  > Have VMS, Will Travelo > Wire paladin, San FranciscoU >  > (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:44:44 GMT.6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <KFarmer@NOSPAM.SpyderByte.com>! Subject: Re: [ot?]Trademark Alpham< Message-ID: <gmiac.1345$w84.148307@twister.southeast.rr.com>  3 "Don Sykes" <paladin@mydomain.com> wrote in messageJ8 news:BL5ac.44144$dD1.13226@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com... >4C > Then, this past Friday, I got a 'cease and desist' order from theoJ > attorneys representing "Alpha Software, Inc." charging me with TrademarkE > Infringement. They are insisting I give up BOTH names as well as mygI > domain name! Since their domain name is "AlphaSoftware.com" you'd thinkr; > they'd be happy as clams. But now they want mine as well!aF > Ironically, they are a Burlington Mass based corporation (probably aJ > stone's throw from an old DEC office). It's also odd, I think, that evenJ > though they have nothing to do with the Alpha processor, they managed toC > coexist with Digital when it trademarked Alpha as their chip set.  >>H > Since I now have to prepare for a legal battle with a MUCH larger foe,H > I've been doing a lot of research into Trademarks and their usage. TheI > biggest factor seems to be confusion in the marketplace. Which leads ton >   a question for this group.  ? http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=9ahsfv.1.1.  % Word Mark: ALPHA SOFTWARE CORPORATION L Goods and Services: IC 009. US 038. G & S: Prerecorded Computer Programs forH Use in Business, Scientific and Personal Computers. FIRST USE: 19820320. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19820320 $ Mark Drawing Code: (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number: 73366792o Filing Date: May 27, 1982. Current Filing Basis: 1A Original Filing Basis: 1A + Published for Opposition: September 6, 1983I Registration Number: 1259263$ Registration Date: November 29, 1983J Owner: (REGISTRANT) Alpha Software Corporation CORPORATION MASSACHUSETTS 6D New England Executive Park, Suite 400 Burlington MASSACHUSETTS 01803L (LAST LISTED OWNER) ALPHA SOFTWARE INC CORPORATION NOT PROVIDED 83 CAMBRIDGE* ST SUITE 3B BURLINGTON MASSACHUSETTS 01803( Assignment Recorded: ASSIGNMENT RECORDED# Attorney of Record: EMANUEL D TORTIrD Disclaimer: No claim is made to the exclusive right to use the words5 "Software Corporation", apart from the mark as shown.n Type of Mark: TRADEMARKl Register: PRINCIPALiB Affidavit Text: SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20031210. Renewal: 1ST RENEWAL 20031210n Live/Dead Indicator: LIVEe     Kens     -- Kenneth Farmer  <><  OpenVMS.org  |  dcl.OpenVMS.orgh   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.177 ************************