1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 31 Mar 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 179       Contents:@ Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers@ Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers@ Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers Anyone from EDS here ?  clusterwide logical names in DCL Re: DCL Coding Standards Re: DCL Coding Standards Re: DCL Coding Standards Re: DCL Coding Standards Re: DCL Coding Standards Re: DCL Coding Standards Re: DCL Coding Standards2 Re: MACHINECHK, Machine check while in kernel mode2 Re: MACHINECHK, Machine check while in kernel mode( MODBUS over TCP/IP for OpenVMS free tool, Re: MODBUS over TCP/IP for OpenVMS free tool# More Offshore of VMS based systems. ' Re: More Offshore of VMS based systems. ' RE: More Offshore of VMS based systems. ' Re: More Offshore of VMS based systems. ' Re: More Offshore of VMS based systems.  Re: Quorum Disk Question Re: Quorum Disk Question* Re: RMS Journaling - good/bad experiences? Re: Securing files under VMS Re: Sun On The Run?  Re: The J F  M e z e i  F A Q  Re: The J F  M e z e i  F A Q P Re: This is a Last Mohican fight (was: [On-Topic]Inquirer: How the IT media mani6 Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable6 Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable6 Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable6 Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable6 Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable6 Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable6 Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable RE: [ot?]Trademark Alpha Re: [ot?]Trademark Alpha Re: [ot?]Trademark Alpha- Re: [OT] Outlook 2003 efficiency against spam   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:43:27 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> I Subject: Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers 0 Message-ID: <c4e3rv$dmi$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <c4cc57$ph2$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > F >>But then that thinking is symptomatic of the Digital malaise, chooseE >>a benchmark that is meaningless to 99% of you customer base because B >>it doesn't model their apps well and concentrate on building theA >>biggest and hairiest system to deliver against that test to the = >>detriment of other metrics that might actually matter more.  >  > / >>Its the antithesis of  balanced system design  >  > B >    Sounds just like DEC in their pre-MIPS-fiasco, VAX-only days.G >    They had lousy SPEC and fairly good TPC numbers in thier "balanced  >    systems". > D >    Words DEC dropped in a hurry when they ported Ultrix to MIPS soJ >    they could go after compute intensive applications that were driving ! >    the UNIX workstation market.  > I >    The digital malaise was marketting, pure and simple, pushed over the F >    edge by thinking they were a computer manufacturer when what they% >    were selling was great software.  >   ; You have to have something to market or at least it helps a  great deal.   ? And lets face it the 8400/GS140/GS320 were right at the back of : the pack in terms of capabilites. Sure they had fast CPU's= but they had slow backplanes, long latency memory subsystems, A poor I/O, poor hardware RAS, not enough application software etc.   9 If you go back to the 8400 you find that the only measure 7 that the 8400 could be said to excel at was SPECint and 5 SPECfp plus some pretty but impractical VLM marketing 6 marks. On all the other tests that tried to model some7 sort of commercial workload the systems lagged the rest 8 of the market by a wide margin with the exception of IBM= who didn't get their UNIX systems act together until the P680 	 came out.   8 Of course at the time IBM also didn't want to have a big7 iron UNIX platform, that was what S390's were for while 8 the 8400 was the biggest system built by Digital/Compaq.  : The 8400 had roughly the same capacity as a Sun E4000/4500< but cost many times more and the E4000 was Sun's 3rd largest- server not by any means the top of the range.   " Ditto for the GS140 and the GS320.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:17:21 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> I Subject: Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers 2 Message-ID: <B2Dac.2075$JJ2.1043@news.cpqcorp.net>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; wrote in message news:c4cc57$ph2$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  > F > You may not have noticed but Andy Bechtolsheim Sun Employee number 1G > has just returned to Sun. Most people who know and of course thats me C > but not you consider Andy to have been as influential if not more 1 > influential than Bill Joy in Sun's development.  > D > Sort of ruins you rats leaving the sinking ship hypothesis doesn't > it.  >   L Nope.  He returned as the result of the aquisition of his company that is...> drum roll... working on building larger AMD-based SMP systems.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:27:46 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> I Subject: Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers 2 Message-ID: <mcDac.2076$fL2.1602@news.cpqcorp.net>  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:POAnKzzBn5VX@eisner.encompasserve.org... H > In article <c4cc57$ph2$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK; Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  > > H > > But then that thinking is symptomatic of the Digital malaise, chooseG > > a benchmark that is meaningless to 99% of you customer base because D > > it doesn't model their apps well and concentrate on building theC > > biggest and hairiest system to deliver against that test to the ? > > detriment of other metrics that might actually matter more.  > 1 > > Its the antithesis of  balanced system design  > B >    Sounds just like DEC in their pre-MIPS-fiasco, VAX-only days.G >    They had lousy SPEC and fairly good TPC numbers in thier "balanced  >    systems". > D >    Words DEC dropped in a hurry when they ported Ultrix to MIPS soI >    they could go after compute intensive applications that were driving ! >    the UNIX workstation market.  >   E Exactly.  It's spin.  If they came out with a Sparc-XXIIV+/Turbo that L actually could compete, their tune would change tommorrow.  They are singing3 the price/performance/throw-enough-CPUs-at-it song.   B But you can't blame them for trying to put lipstick on the pig ;-)   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2004 09:42:26 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) Subject: Anyone from EDS here ? = Message-ID: <f30679fb.0403310942.4e0c0ee5@posting.google.com>    Anyone from EDS here ?     Please send me a private email    & fabiocardoso(((at))))yahoo(((dot)))com   Regards    FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:09:40 +0200 0 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com>) Subject: clusterwide logical names in DCL * Message-ID: <406aed86@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  K When I met several of you in the technical update days last year and in the   F bootcamp I have heard request for the following from many people....so coming in V8.2 :  ) IPL31> def/cluster openvms "the best O/S"    IPL31> show log openvms/full  E "OPENVMS" [super,clusterwide] = "the best O/S" (LNM$SYSCLUSTER_TABLE)    IPL31> deass/clus openvms    IPL31> show log openvms/full  7 %SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name OPENVMS    IPL31>  . There is also support for SHOW LOGICAL/CLUSTER   Guy    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:47:03 +0200   From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards - Message-ID: <c4dphe$2mie$1@news.cybercity.dk>    Bob Koehler wrote:? > In article <f401eb7f.0403301114.748cc884@posting.google.com>, 1 > soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume) writes: E >> Hey, does anyone out there have a short document that they use for 7 >> DCL Coding Standards that they are willing to share?  > 	 >    Yes:  >  >       Don't. > C >    Anything complex enough to require coding standards is complex ' >    enough to justify compilable code.    Yes.   Code like I do :-)  E On a more serious note, there are certainly volumes dealing with good 
 practices.  . Do a search for DCL at amazon and you will get  ~ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1555581919/qid=1080715244/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-2748977-6835058?v=glance&s=books  5 which I suspect will give some guidance on good form.   J For more fun, the infamous http://www.kgb.com/dcl.html is a good place :-)5 including all of his columns from the good old days !   
 Dr. Dweeb.        
 Dr. Dweeb.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2004 01:11:52 -0800( From: finnjj@telefonica.net (Jerry Finn)! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards < Message-ID: <31a78418.0403310111.89b0eb7@posting.google.com>  r soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume) wrote in message news:<f401eb7f.0403301114.748cc884@posting.google.com>...H > Hey, does anyone out there have a short document that they use for DCL2 > Coding Standards that they are willing to share?  @ I don't have one but there is a freeware dcl script to check theE quality of DCL code. You should be able to use this as a guide to put @ together standards and then use it to verify that they are being	 followed.   < http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware40/dcl_check/   Jerry Finn.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:08:15 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards - Message-ID: <c4e5af$vve$2@biggoron.nerim.net>    Charlie Hammond wrote:6 > In article <1J09BwQkeetR@eisner.encompasserve.org>, ? > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  >  > I >>  Anything complex enough to require coding standards is complex enough 1 >>  to justify compilable code [rather than DCL].  >  > F > In case this is NOT a troll, I'll point out that the decision to useE > DCL vs a compilable language has little to do with it being complex 5 > and much to do with the nature of the task at hand.     And the processing speed to get.   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:11:12 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards - Message-ID: <c4e5g0$vve$3@biggoron.nerim.net>    Dr. Dweeb wrote:   ../..  > L > For more fun, the infamous http://www.kgb.com/dcl.html is a good place :-)7 > including all of his columns from the good old days !   ! Thanks, I did not know that site.   E And as far as the original question is concerned, this text may help: ! http://www.kgb.com/dcl/199104.txt    D.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2004 07:56:24 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards 3 Message-ID: <YhPFsd4UOYAr@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <1J09BwQkeetR@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: o > In article <f401eb7f.0403301114.748cc884@posting.google.com>, soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume) writes: I >> Hey, does anyone out there have a short document that they use for DCL 3 >> Coding Standards that they are willing to share?  > 	 >    Yes:  >  >       Don't. > J >    Anything complex enough to require coding standards is complex enough  >    to justify compilable code.  D I have informal coding standards that I use in places where DCL mustC be used, such as SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.  Informal means they are not at  all written down (until now).   : 	Each change shall include a new one-line entry at the top 	of the edit history.    	Never abbreviate keywords.   - 	Coordinate version numbers across a cluster.   6 	VMS commands are in uppercase, to readily distinguish8 	them from the extensive comments, which are mixed case.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:57:55 +0200   From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards , Message-ID: <c4eip2$dsd$1@news.cybercity.dk>   Didier Morandi wrote:  > Dr. Dweeb wrote: >  > ../..  >>C >> For more fun, the infamous http://www.kgb.com/dcl.html is a good B >> place :-) including all of his columns from the good old days ! > # > Thanks, I did not know that site.  >   I You have to REALLY OLD to remember his famous "Stupid DCL tricks" and his G articles in the Digital press.  It appears I am old, but alzheimers has  apparenmtly not set in yet :-9  
 Dr. Dweeb.  G > And as far as the original question is concerned, this text may help: # > http://www.kgb.com/dcl/199104.txt  >  > D.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2004 06:47:47 -0800- From: soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume) ! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards = Message-ID: <f401eb7f.0403310647.408a2517@posting.google.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:E >> Hey, does anyone out there have a short document that they use for 7 >> DCL Coding Standards that they are willing to share?  > 	 >    Yes:  >  >       Don't. > C >    Anything complex enough to require coding standards is complex ' >    enough to justify compilable code.   A I do believe that most DCL code should be kept to under 200 lines < (basically about five screens (SET TERMINAL/PAGE=43)).  WhenC reasonable, compilable code is preferred.  However, when there is a > product family with multiple facilities that contains many DCLC scripts, it does make sense that a standard is set for each file to E ensure maintainability.  Even the smallest DCL script should follow a  standard for an environment.     Dr Dweeb wrote:  > G > On a more serious note, there are certainly volumes dealing with good  > practices. > 0 > Do a search for DCL at amazon and you will get >  > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1555581919/qid=1080715244/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-2748977-6835058?v=glance&s=books  F Thanks, I have already purchased a book speaking specifically to DCL. D Unfortunately, it will take a few days and I wanted to get something going ASAP.     7 > which I suspect will give some guidance on good form.  > L > For more fun, the infamous http://www.kgb.com/dcl.html is a good place :-)7 > including all of his columns from the good old days !  >  > Dr. Dweeb.  A Anything I can get to in the next day or so is wonderful, thanks!    JMOD   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:55:20 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply); Subject: Re: MACHINECHK, Machine check while in kernel mode $ Message-ID: <c4dq0n$ua0$1@online.de>  H In article <I3gJSh14EhRA@cpva.saic.com>, mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com writes:  . >     $ analyze/error/since/exclude=(vol,cont)  B Thanks.  Changing the above to have /since=yesterday, I first get  several of these:   E    %ERF-W-ZEROLEN, zero length record encountered, entry 1023 skipped   ) The the following more interesting stuff:   O  ******************************* ENTRY    1622. ******************************* O  ERROR SEQUENCE 14825.                           LOGGED ON:        SID 12000003 O  DATE/TIME 30-MAR-2004 14:10:08.36                            SYS_TYPE 04010002   SYSTEM UPTIME: 9 DAYS 00:27:28 K  SCS NODE: ELIJAH                                              VAX/VMS V7.3   :  FATAL BUGCHECK  KA46  CPU FW REV# 3.  CONSOLE FW REV# 0.1  /  MACHINECHK, Machine check while in kernel mode           PROCESS NAME    ADMIN_1          PROCESS ID      00D20040           ERROR PC        820AA90F         ERROR PSL       041F0008 ,                                        N-BITE                                        INTERRUPT PRIORITY LEVEL = 31. =                                        PREVIOUS MODE = KERNEL <                                        CURRENT MODE = KERNEL6                                        INTERRUPT STACK<                                        FIRST PART DONE CLEAR    STACK POINTERS   E  KSP 7FFE7768  ESP 7FFE9800  SSP 7FFECA44  USP 7FEB2E4C  ISP 8281AD6C     GENERAL REGISTERS  E  R0  060000FC  R1  81102200  R2  00000200  R3  81103400  R4  00000000 E  R5  00000004  R6  8B9BAC68  R7  81070500  R8  81EAA040  R9  81103400 E  R10 000003D1  R11 00000001  AP  7FEB2E60  FP  7FEB2E4C  SP  8281ADD4     SYSTEM REGISTERS           P0BR            85F27400 ?                                        P0 PTE BASE (VIRT ADDRS)         P0LR            000016CA 5                                        TOTAL P0 PAGES         P1BR            858ADE00 ?                                        P1 PTE BASE (VIRT ADDRS)         P1LR            001FF585 B                                        TOTAL NON-EXISTENT P1 PAGES        SBR             01E47E00 C                                        SYSTEM PTE BASE (PHYS ADDRS)         SLR             0005DA80 D                                        TOTAL PAGES "SYSTEM" VIRT MEM        PCBB            00E0B420 <                                        PCB BASE (PHYS ADDRS)        SCBB            01E40C00 <                                        SCB BASE (PHYS ADDRS)        ASTLVL          00000004 7                                        NO AST'S PENDING         SISR            00000180 D                                        PENDING INTERRUPT AT LEVEL 7.D                                        PENDING INTERRUPT AT LEVEL 8.D                                        INTERRUPT REQUEST ACTIVE = 0.        ICCS            00000040 7                                        INTERRUPT ENABLE         TODR            00000000 O  ******************************* ENTRY    1634. ******************************* O  ERROR SEQUENCE 14858.                           LOGGED ON:        SID 12000003 O  DATE/TIME 30-MAR-2004 18:01:33.80                            SYS_TYPE 04010002   SYSTEM UPTIME: 0 DAYS 03:50:49 K  SCS NODE: ELIJAH                                              VAX/VMS V7.3   :  ERL$LOGMESSAGE  KA46  CPU FW REV# 3.  CONSOLE FW REV# 0.1  !  NI-SCS SUB-SYSTEM, _ELIJAH$PEA0:   &        "DRIVER" ERROR SUB-TYPE # = 11.  -        LOCAL STATION ADDRESS, FFFFFFFFFF00(X) '        LOCAL SYSTEM ID, 000000000404(X)   .        REMOTE STATION ADDRESS, 0000000000DE(X)(        REMOTE SYSTEM ID, 000000000402(X)          UCB$B_ERTCNT          32 <                                        50. RETRIES REMAINING        UCB$B_ERTMAX          32 <                                        50. RETRIES ALLOWABLE        UCB$W_ERRCNT        0001 :                                        1. ERRORS THIS UNIT        PPD$B_PORT            00 7                                        REMOTE NODE # 0.         PPD$B_STATUS          00         PPD$B_OPC             00 5                                        UNKNOWN OPCODE         PPD$B_FLAGS           00   H The second entry above is clear: I got an error on the LAN while shadow D copies and merges were going on.  I suppose that the 10 MB/s LAN is I perhaps too slow considering that ALL traffic---including shadowing---is  = travelling on it.  The cause of the reboot was the first one.   G Based on the (sub)process name, what was happening at the time was that G a procedure was running to let me know that an update of my dynamic IP  G address was successful.  It's only a few lines of code; apart from IF,  F THEN, ENDIF, EXIT, DEFINE and WAIT, the only command---and presumably I the only one which could cause a problem---was MAIL.  (I'm running TCPIP  I 5.3 with the latest patches.)  Of course, if it was caused by a hardware  7 problem, then the image running is probably irrelevant.   E Apparently, it rebooted write away; the boot time is only 40 seconds   after the error time.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:35:19 +0100 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>; Subject: Re: MACHINECHK, Machine check while in kernel mode ' Message-ID: <c4dsdt$o3j$1@lore.csc.com>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  >   + > The the following more interesting stuff:  > Q >  ******************************* ENTRY    1622. ******************************* Q >  ERROR SEQUENCE 14825.                           LOGGED ON:        SID 12000003 Q >  DATE/TIME 30-MAR-2004 14:10:08.36                            SYS_TYPE 04010002 ! >  SYSTEM UPTIME: 9 DAYS 00:27:28 M >  SCS NODE: ELIJAH                                              VAX/VMS V7.3  > < >  FATAL BUGCHECK  KA46  CPU FW REV# 3.  CONSOLE FW REV# 0.1 > 1 >  MACHINECHK, Machine check while in kernel mode   D That is just the crash entry, all (nearly all) crashes end up in the	 errorlog.   Q >  ******************************* ENTRY    1634. ******************************* Q >  ERROR SEQUENCE 14858.                           LOGGED ON:        SID 12000003 Q >  DATE/TIME 30-MAR-2004 18:01:33.80                            SYS_TYPE 04010002 ! >  SYSTEM UPTIME: 0 DAYS 03:50:49 M >  SCS NODE: ELIJAH                                              VAX/VMS V7.3  > < >  ERL$LOGMESSAGE  KA46  CPU FW REV# 3.  CONSOLE FW REV# 0.1 > # >  NI-SCS SUB-SYSTEM, _ELIJAH$PEA0:   F This is probably just the port closing error, I don't think it was theG cause of the crash. It can happen for a number of reasons. Check the SH B LAN/COU figures in SDA, may tell you more. Crashes caused by ports/ closing would generally be of the CLUEXIT type.   @ Hardware errors causing crashes occur BEFORE the bugcheck entry.  H The sequence is that as errors occur, they are buffered, then written toH the errorlog by ERRFMT process. In the event of a crash, a raw "dump" ofE the error space is put to the ERRLOGBUF.DMP file, and when the system = reboots, they are posthumously written to the error log file.   E The problem with a machine check or any hardware induced crash, is it B interferes with normal operation, and it is possible to get doubleD machine checks, a bugcheck wile servicing a bugcheck, and you can beD reasonably certain that the context of the original crash is lost. A% crash is a symptom of something else.   E However, the console should, hopefully, contain the clues. You'll get E things displayed on the console which can't appear in a crash file or  error log file.   G You can use CLUE to create an errorlog.sys file from just the error log  buffers.  D I'd go further back in history of your error log file and see if youD have any ECC corrected errors occasionally, or anything else looking' related to the hardware side of things.  --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:11:39 -0600 ' From: "Earl Lakia" <elakia@hotmail.com> 1 Subject: MODBUS over TCP/IP for OpenVMS free tool 1 Message-ID: <B8GdncRjk_k2QvfdRVn2ig@netnitco.net>   L IPACT has a product that provides an API for OpenVMS for reading and writing data  A to and from Modicon PLCs by Group Schnieder or to any device that  communicates using  ( Modbus over TCP/IP (see www.modbus.org).  K As a freebe, you can acquire a simple DCL utility to read holding registers   B supportting this protocol by sending mail to:   mbplus%%%ipact.com  ! (change %%% to @ before mailing).   & Requires OpenVMS 7.0 or later and UCX.   Example:  9 $RDREG /REG=409001 /ROUTE=137.35.161.246.1 /COUNT=8 /BYTE    Route path: 137.035.161.246.001   
 409001 | 2004   
 409002 | 3   409003 | 24    409004 | 18   
 409005 | 1   409006 | 51   
 409007 | 1  
 409008 | 0  5 ! This defines the DCL syntax for the DCL_READREG.CLD   
 ! utility.   !   & ! $ rr /reg= Starting holding register   ! /route=(xx.xx.xx.xx.xx)    ! /count=<>   	 ! [/byte]    ! [/hex]  
 ! [/ASCII]   ! [/symbols]   !   ; /reg= Starting holding register. This may be omitted if the   5 DCL symbol: MBP_START_REGISTER populated with a valid    holding register.   9 /route= Route path to the PLC. This may be omitted if the   , DCL symbol: MBP_ROUTE populated with a valid   route path.   ? /adapter= Modbus Plus adapter to use. By default, it uses PA1:.   7 The user enters: 0= jpa1:, 1= jpb1:, 2= mbc1: ,3= mbd1:   + /byte= Byte swap the data before displaying    /hex= Display data in hex   ? /ASCII= Display or store data in symbol as ASCII. First null in   , holding register read will terminate string.  A /symbols= If present, then this utility will populate DCL symbols   > to HR_1 to HR_nn where nn= count if "/ASCII" is not specified.  - Otherwise, HR_ASCII is set to the ASCII text.     --------------------------------  
 Earl D. Lakia    Senior Staff Engineer    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:25:24 -0600 ' From: "Earl Lakia" <elakia@hotmail.com> 5 Subject: Re: MODBUS over TCP/IP for OpenVMS free tool 1 Message-ID: <QuidnVVZ7PF2f_fdRVn2iw@netnitco.net>   = Correction to the Adapter switch, it is not used for  TCP/IP. E This utility was migrated from our Modbus Plus product which had SA85  devices named JPA.  <  /route= Route path to the PLC.   This may be omitted if the1      DCL symbol: MBP_ROUTE populated with a valid 1      route path.  This is the IP address plus the ;      unit of the Modbus node on the Ethernet.  It should be ;      specified in normal dot format (e.g. 10.0.0.1.1) where =      10.0.0.1 is the IP address and the last one is the unit.    -earl    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:27:24 +0200 5 From: "Philip Lewis" <philipdotjdotlewis@writeme.com> , Subject: More Offshore of VMS based systems.- Message-ID: <c4e2tr$2v08$1@news.cybercity.dk>    Folks,  I I have recently become aware that Coles-Meyer in Australia are shortly to L outsource the operations of their OracleRdb databases to an outfit in India.K As we all know, India is a hotbed of Rdb expertise with a thriving customer K base and community of experienced and knowledgable DBAs upon which to draw, 2 making this certainly a wise move on their behalf.  H VMS systems at C-M are being replaced btw for what I do not know, but as part of a rather large project.   L Anyway, it appears that Australia is not immune to the outsourcing trend for< skilled as well as unskilled positions as this link suggests? http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/17/1079199279549.html   K Additionally, it is I think commonly known that Deutsche Brse in Frankfurt G have raised the ogre of outsourcing of their application development to L India.  I do not know whether this is just a threat to force lower rates forL the contractors (a standard often used DB tactic) or a serious considerationH on their part.  In any case, since DB uses quite a bit of VMS and Rdb inL their core trading and clearing systems, this would certainly be news should they actually go ahead with it.    philip   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:00:29 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>0 Subject: Re: More Offshore of VMS based systems.) Message-ID: <406A8877.F14A801B@istop.com>    Philip Lewis wrote: K > I have recently become aware that Coles-Meyer in Australia are shortly to N > outsource the operations of their OracleRdb databases to an outfit in India.  E HP is part of a group that has just argued to the USA government that L outsourcing actually creates jobs locally. I think that the logic is that ifI you can lower the cost of products, it gives citizens a greater amount of T disposable income which they spend on a greater number of goods, thus creating jobs.  M (of course, when you buy goods made in china with that extra money you saved, * it doesn't really create many local jobs).  N BTW, the maintenance of ALL-IN-1 was outsourced to India as well (from Reading in england).  N The thing is that in a free market, the one with the cheaper product wins. AndK when western workers expect to have high wages to pay for their standard of I living, they just can't compete against new world workers who are just as  educated and work for peanuts.  N And just like the "old" airline unions have had to accept major concessions toK bring the old airline workers' wages more in line with those of the new low J cost carriers, I suspect that the only way out of this will be for westernK world workers to accept big pay cuts to make themselves competitive against  new world workers.  N That may mean no more expectations of a family buying a new SUV every 2 years,9 (and maintaining 2 other ones for wive and kids) etc etc.   N The irony is that north american corporations have, in the past, ignored lowerN cost consultants in favour of high cost ones because their recommendations hadZ more weight simply because they charged more money (not because they were more competent).    F In terms of cars, you can slap import duties that artificially protectI american workers from low cost offshore workers. But for IT services, you K can't slap import duries for services rendered by telephone or for software - developped in India, but packaged in the USA.   H And it make things even murkier when things are all mixed up. My currentK mobile phone is made in Germany, but some of the programs on it are made in M India. The OS , if it is Symbian, was partly done in England and USA. But the N unit was packaged in canada where I am. How are you supposed to slap duties on this ?  G It is going to be very hard for western world politicians to tell their N electors to accept wage concessions and that there is really no way to protectM against new competition from new world countries. This is especially true for L western world countries whose education system doesn't rank much higher that that of new world countries.  M The transition from the industrial to the information age has brought about a H new phenomenon of totally mobile jobs that choose the lowest cost labour market wherever it might be.  D And since programming and support do not require huge infrastructureG investments, just well educated brains, any new world country with good L education and telecom system can compete against western world countries and steal a lot of business.  J I suspect Fiji might be the next one. They speak very good english and areL well educated, and sit right on the major fiber cables between south pacific and north america.  N In the end, this will eliminate middle class in western countries. You'll haveG the people working below or at poverty line (cleaners, McDonalds burger K flippers etc), and you'll have the very rich who don't need to work because M they live off dividends from investments in companies that are very succesful B at providing goods and services worldwide from low wage countries.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:59:43 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> 0 Subject: RE: More Offshore of VMS based systems.R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB2C6C19@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----? > From: Philip Lewis [mailto:philipdotjdotlewis@writeme.com]=20  > Sent: March 31, 2004 4:27 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . > Subject: More Offshore of VMS based systems. >=20 > Folks, >=20? > I have recently become aware that Coles-Meyer in Australia=20  > are shortly to@ > outsource the operations of their OracleRdb databases to an=20 > outfit in India.> > As we all know, India is a hotbed of Rdb expertise with a=20 > thriving customer A > base and community of experienced and knowledgable DBAs upon=20  > which to draw,4 > making this certainly a wise move on their behalf. >=20@ > VMS systems at C-M are being replaced btw for what I do not=20 > know, but as! > part of a rather large project.  >=20; > Anyway, it appears that Australia is not immune to the=20  > outsourcing trend for > > skilled as well as unskilled positions as this link suggestsA > http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/17/1079199279549.html  >=20= > Additionally, it is I think commonly known that Deutsche=20  > B=F6rse in Frankfurt= > have raised the ogre of outsourcing of their application=20  > development toA > India.  I do not know whether this is just a threat to force=20  > lower rates for ; > the contractors (a standard often used DB tactic) or a=20  > serious consideration B > on their part.  In any case, since DB uses quite a bit of VMS=20 > and Rdb inB > their core trading and clearing systems, this would certainly=20 > be news should! > they actually go ahead with it.  >=20 > philip >=20   Philip -  : You might be interested in the following: (March 29, 2004)< http://news.com.com/2100-1022_3-5180589.html?tag=3Dnefd_lede1 "Will India price itself out of offshore market?"p  @ The U.S. technology industry's demand for offshore services is =H apparently beginning to drive up pay rates in India, raising questions =B about the long-term benefits of outsourcing work to that country."  $ [snip ..see url for rest of article]     Regardsa  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660S Fax: 613-591-4477o Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcomS. (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2004 08:00:36 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)0 Subject: Re: More Offshore of VMS based systems.= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0403310800.14074121@posting.google.com>h  [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<406A8877.F14A801B@istop.com>...b > Philip Lewis wrote:eM > > I have recently become aware that Coles-Meyer in Australia are shortly tosP > > outsource the operations of their OracleRdb databases to an outfit in India. > G > HP is part of a group that has just argued to the USA government that N > outsourcing actually creates jobs locally. I think that the logic is that ifK > you can lower the cost of products, it gives citizens a greater amount ofeV > disposable income which they spend on a greater number of goods, thus creating jobs. > O > (of course, when you buy goods made in china with that extra money you saved,f, > it doesn't really create many local jobs). > P > BTW, the maintenance of ALL-IN-1 was outsourced to India as well (from Reading > in england). > P > The thing is that in a free market, the one with the cheaper product wins. AndM > when western workers expect to have high wages to pay for their standard of-K > living, they just can't compete against new world workers who are just asr  > educated and work for peanuts. > P > And just like the "old" airline unions have had to accept major concessions toM > bring the old airline workers' wages more in line with those of the new low.L > cost carriers, I suspect that the only way out of this will be for westernM > world workers to accept big pay cuts to make themselves competitive againste > new world workers. > P > That may mean no more expectations of a family buying a new SUV every 2 years,; > (and maintaining 2 other ones for wive and kids) etc etc.l > P > The irony is that north american corporations have, in the past, ignored lowerP > cost consultants in favour of high cost ones because their recommendations had\ > more weight simply because they charged more money (not because they were more competent). >  > H > In terms of cars, you can slap import duties that artificially protectK > american workers from low cost offshore workers. But for IT services, youDM > can't slap import duries for services rendered by telephone or for softwaret/ > developped in India, but packaged in the USA.n > J > And it make things even murkier when things are all mixed up. My currentM > mobile phone is made in Germany, but some of the programs on it are made intO > India. The OS , if it is Symbian, was partly done in England and USA. But the P > unit was packaged in canada where I am. How are you supposed to slap duties on > this ?    J My current mobile is from a brazilian company called Gradiente. The mobile  factory was acquired by Nokia !     I > It is going to be very hard for western world politicians to tell theirrP > electors to accept wage concessions and that there is really no way to protectO > against new competition from new world countries. This is especially true for N > western world countries whose education system doesn't rank much higher that > that of new world countries.    G Free Trade Area ! Where is it ? Should be good for all the sides if USAaI open their markets for other american countries ! But they dont do that.cI So, I cant go to Boston to make my Masters Course because of the americandJ visa bureaucracy.. ok ok I dont want to go to USA anymore - I think in EU.         O > The transition from the industrial to the information age has brought about asJ > new phenomenon of totally mobile jobs that choose the lowest cost labour > market wherever it might be.  & Informationa age is becoming boring !   F > And since programming and support do not require huge infrastructureI > investments, just well educated brains, any new world country with goodlN > education and telecom system can compete against western world countries and > steal a lot of business. > L > I suspect Fiji might be the next one. They speak very good english and areN > well educated, and sit right on the major fiber cables between south pacific > and north america.    I EU is moving to Romania and Bulgaria ! They have high skills in Math and nK Science ! When the situation in Serbia turn  more secure for the inverstorsoJ they will be the next target ! I had a Serbian Girlfriend and I know they   are really good professionals !     nP > In the end, this will eliminate middle class in western countries. You'll haveI > the people working below or at poverty line (cleaners, McDonalds burgeriM > flippers etc), and you'll have the very rich who don't need to work because O > they live off dividends from investments in companies that are very succesful D > at providing goods and services worldwide from low wage countries.      C Hey People ! Lets found a new company www.OpenVMSBuddhas.org ! :-)s     Fabio C.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:37:08 GMTe& From: Don Sykes <paladin@mydomain.com>0 Subject: Re: More Offshore of VMS based systems.> Message-ID: <odEac.44652$HM2.34638@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>   JF Mezei wrote:d > Philip Lewis wrote:a > K >>I have recently become aware that Coles-Meyer in Australia are shortly totN >>outsource the operations of their OracleRdb databases to an outfit in India. >  > G > HP is part of a group that has just argued to the USA government thateN > outsourcing actually creates jobs locally. I think that the logic is that ifK > you can lower the cost of products, it gives citizens a greater amount ofiV > disposable income which they spend on a greater number of goods, thus creating jobs. > O > (of course, when you buy goods made in china with that extra money you saved,l, > it doesn't really create many local jobs). > P > BTW, the maintenance of ALL-IN-1 was outsourced to India as well (from Reading > in england). > P > The thing is that in a free market, the one with the cheaper product wins. AndM > when western workers expect to have high wages to pay for their standard ofhK > living, they just can't compete against new world workers who are just aso  > educated and work for peanuts. > P > And just like the "old" airline unions have had to accept major concessions toM > bring the old airline workers' wages more in line with those of the new low(L > cost carriers, I suspect that the only way out of this will be for westernM > world workers to accept big pay cuts to make themselves competitive againste > new world workers. > P > That may mean no more expectations of a family buying a new SUV every 2 years,; > (and maintaining 2 other ones for wive and kids) etc etc.l > P > The irony is that north american corporations have, in the past, ignored lowerP > cost consultants in favour of high cost ones because their recommendations had\ > more weight simply because they charged more money (not because they were more competent). >  > H > In terms of cars, you can slap import duties that artificially protectK > american workers from low cost offshore workers. But for IT services, you"M > can't slap import duries for services rendered by telephone or for softwarem/ > developped in India, but packaged in the USA.c > J > And it make things even murkier when things are all mixed up. My currentM > mobile phone is made in Germany, but some of the programs on it are made in O > India. The OS , if it is Symbian, was partly done in England and USA. But theDP > unit was packaged in canada where I am. How are you supposed to slap duties on > this ? > I > It is going to be very hard for western world politicians to tell theirtP > electors to accept wage concessions and that there is really no way to protectO > against new competition from new world countries. This is especially true for N > western world countries whose education system doesn't rank much higher that > that of new world countries. > O > The transition from the industrial to the information age has brought about alJ > new phenomenon of totally mobile jobs that choose the lowest cost labour > market wherever it might be. > F > And since programming and support do not require huge infrastructureI > investments, just well educated brains, any new world country with goodaN > education and telecom system can compete against western world countries and > steal a lot of business. > L > I suspect Fiji might be the next one. They speak very good english and areN > well educated, and sit right on the major fiber cables between south pacific > and north america. > P > In the end, this will eliminate middle class in western countries. You'll haveI > the people working below or at poverty line (cleaners, McDonalds burgeraM > flippers etc), and you'll have the very rich who don't need to work becauseeO > they live off dividends from investments in companies that are very succesfulhD > at providing goods and services worldwide from low wage countries.  E While I know we don't agree politically, I think in this case you're iD right on. While the ultimate goal of internationalism is laudable - G namely a world-wide middle class where same type jobs are paid similar eB amounts - getting there could be disastrous! As you imply, who in E America (or Canada) will be able to buy all these cheap products? To aF this I think a "type" of protectionism could be employed for all "1st D world" countries. Simply put, the revenues a company derives from a I country must be in the same proportion as their jobs & contracts in that BC country. The difference would be in the form of a tax based on the c country's minimum wage.x+ For example (all figures are pure fiction):h  C HP earns $45 billion world wide; $25 billion is made from US sales.h % of revenues from US = 56% ; HP employs 100,000 people world-wide; 40,000 are in the US.e % of employees in the US = 40%  = The difference in % of revenues to % of jobs is 56 - 40 = 16% G Therefore, HP would be 16,000 jobs short in the US, so their tax would 0 be: 16,000 * Minimum wage.  H While the tax is substantial, they may well be financially justified to ? continue that proportion. Or they may choose to bring their US eH revenue/job ratio more in line. In any event, the taxes collected could H be used to give health insurance to all the unemployed/semi-employed IT  workers.   --     Have VMS, Will Travell Wire paladin, San Franciscot   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:39:16 GMT1( From: "konabear" <maurert@ameritech.net>! Subject: Re: Quorum Disk QuestionjA Message-ID: <oKAac.19111$t16.10090996@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>c  J The problem I have with the configuration of five nodes each with one voteF and a quorum disk with  4 votes, is that then every last cluster stateI transition suffers.  The cluster will temporarily lose and have to regain(K quorum as the cluster can't have quorum without the quorum disk except whenh the last node is booting in.  I Also some people mistakenly think they can't shutdown to one node if they'F don't have a quorum disk, in this example, having four votes.  However= that's exactly what the shutdown option "REMOVE_NODE" is for.   H In my preferred configuration (5 nodes, each with one vote and no quorumL disk, Expected_votes=5), booting a node standalone requires manually bootingL through SYSBOOT.  However in my preferred configuration I can drop a node orK two out and bring them back in with little impact to the users on the others systems.  J Like I said, this is a rat hole.  I don't look down my nose at people thatE invest many votes (N-1 votes) in their quorum disk.  I understand the-( strengths and weaknesses of that choice.   Todd  D "Michael Moroney" <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote in message" news:c4cpg1$akb$1@pcls4.std.com...* > jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes: >:F > >On 30 Mar 2004 05:28:31 -0800, denny.rich@swagelok.com (Denny Rich) wrote: >gH > >>If there's trouble or maintenance, I vote every time for the abilityC > >>to bring up a single-node cluster, with no manual intervention.D > >># > >>That's why I like quorum disks.  > >> > I > >Heck, you don't need a quorum disk for that.  In fact, if you've got 5pK > >voting nodes, plus a quorum disk, expected_votes should be 6, and quorumeJ > >should be calculated to be 4.  So a single node should not even be able to% > >boot with the quorum disk present.- > I > I think he's talking about the case where the quorum disk has N-1 votesPJ > (where N is the total of the votes of the nodes, excluding quorum votes.% > EXPECTED_VOTES=2*N-1, Quorum is N).o >eI > In the case of 5 nodes each with one vote, the quorum disk has 4 votes, F > and quorum is 5.  This allows any single node to boot without manualI > intervention, as long as it sees the quorum disk.  It has the advantageiJ > of allowing a cluster of as few or as many of the nodes you want withoutG > risk of partitioning, and the disadvantages of making the quorum diskaJ > "almost" a single point of failure (I say "almost" since the cluster canH > boot/operate without the quorum disk as long as *every* node is up) asK > well as the usual disadvantage of sluggish cluster transitions when using J > a quorum disk, and every node must have direct access to the quorum disk > for this to work.  >n >d > --   > -Miken   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:46:50 GMTl( From: "konabear" <maurert@ameritech.net>! Subject: Re: Quorum Disk QuestionoA Message-ID: <uRAac.19114$t16.10092211@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>i  K I didn't say that the system disk isn't shared.  I said that if there is nobE mirrored disk to become the quorum disk, and if the system disk isn'toJ shadowed.  And yes, agreed, if the system disk is being served by a single8 node, then there's no need to make that the quorum disk.  K For reliability sake, I'm going to prefer a controller based redundant diskl: of some sort as the quorum disk.  If now mirroring then...  K If no shadowing of the system disk, then the system disk is a candidate forrJ use as a quorum disk.  If the system disk is lost, then so is the cluster.H Making the system disk the quorum disk doesn't help or hurt reliability.? Using a nonsystem disk adds one more component that could fail.C  7 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in messagec  news:c4bikn$nm$1@lore.csc.com...
 > Z wrote: > >c+ > > konabear <maurert@ameritech.net> wrote::K > > : If the there is no mirroring and no shadowing then the system disk isbH > > : arguably a good candidate for the quorum disk and using it for the quorum4 > > : disk doesn't introduce a new point of failure. > >h@ > > I don't understand ... why have a quorum disk at all if it's > > a device that's not shared?* > >*@ > > Why not just give the node with the system disk (that you're7 > > thinking of making your quorum disk) an extra vote?4 >:I > That is suggested in the VMS documentation set, so correct observation.AI > If only one system is capable of servicing the quorum disk's vote, then % > better give the vote to the system.  >UH > So, for the original questioner, you can see why a lowly quorum system* > (typically workstation) is often chosen. > G > However the "dependency" issue is an interesting one. e.g. the quorum F > disk could be the one with the cluster shared files such as UAF, QueJ > files, that sort of thing. Theoretically, without that disk, the clusterJ > can't do much (no-one properly log in etc.) There is nothing to stop youG > taking those files off the system disk. Protecting or otherwise those G > files in a hardware raidset of some form is a decision taken locally.R >P > -- EA > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer SciencesC > nclews at csc dot com8   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:23:47 -0500R- From: "heuveltjes" <heuveltjes@email.msn.com>83 Subject: Re: RMS Journaling - good/bad experiences?R, Message-ID: <4069d783$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   > DR between two sites  H This was not the original intend, but you should be abel to achieve this4 with the help of Norm's freeware tool 'journal snap'  2 > are there any good or bad experiences out there?  7 It has been a great experience for RMS/VMS engineering. @ A modest, but steady stream of revenue from satisfied customers.  L Oh, that was not the info you were after, was it? Sorry, i can not speak forK end users but judging from the other side it is working as expected. Best I J know (looking in from teh sidelines only) there are no serious/significant@ complaints in years of operations., which should be nice to know  ; > Any (beyond expected) performance issues with it as well?   I RMS AI journalling works on bucket change basis, not on record bacsis. It H does not know which part of a bucket has changed so it records all validI bytes (that is up to the free-byte). This is sometimes unexpected. It mayNK steer your file tuning for update intense files toward smaller data bucketsPK then you would normally consider. You may want to compensate that by largerI* index bucket and agresive compression use.  G > I had to get the manuals downloaded from the web as they don't appear0H > on the documentation CD's (that I can find) - and also don't appear toF > have been updated since 1993 (but maybe if its perfect/works already > then no update is needed).  - No update was ever needed. Works as designed.    Regards, Hein.    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2004 08:03:32 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)A% Subject: Re: Securing files under VMS 3 Message-ID: <Ev+c0IbxKW6B@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <UPnac.2041$G72.1368@news.cpqcorp.net>, Wayne Morrison <Wayne.Morrison@hp.com> writes:  > John Smith wrote:U > & >> Is this what you were referring to?5 >> http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/SP2674/SP2674PF.PDF4 >>  M >> It only has DES. If it were updated with 3DES, AES, Blowfish, & Twofish it0 >> might be worthwhile.B > F > SSL and CDSA support 3DES encryption today, and will support AES in I > upcoming versions.  SSL is an optional component of OpenVMS currently,    # But that is all Alpha-only, right ?B  % VMS Encryption is cross-architecture.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:14:48 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>  Subject: Re: Sun On The Run?0 Message-ID: <c4eg89$hqi$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <c4ccf7$pio$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > < >>Fine so now you are saying that they are running Oracle on@ >>unsupported OS platforms. Remember Oracle do not support their6 >>DBMS products on any Free to Download Linux distros. >>: >>Now why does that sound almost as bad as being in breach >>of contract with RedHat ?????o >  > G >    So if they are willing to run the OS without support, why not alsoy" >    run the DBMS without support. >   @ Simple, they can engineer fixes for the OS if they have to sinceA they have access to source, they can also rely on a certain leveli$ of support from community resources.  ? Of course its pretty insane for any commercial organisation say B in Finance or Automotive etc to get involved in Kernel engineering? unless they can show some really compelling reason for doing soe but its still possible.-    None of which applies to Oracle.     Regards0 Andrew Harrisonw   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:48:21 GMTe1 From: Marc Bissonnette <dragnet@internalysis.com>c& Subject: Re: The J F  M e z e i  F A QA Message-ID: <Xns94BD1C8FC8317dragnetinternalysisc@207.35.177.134>f  + "~ Darrell  Larose ~" <me@here.eh> wrote inY@ news:xAsac.1583$oV41.1554@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com:    > 4 > "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message4 > news:ece2eb7e972748b75fa14206176d0ddb@dizum.com...1 >> Brad Clarke <screwthespammers@spam.com> wrote:  >>D >> >On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 06:28:02 -0500, Tony Reed <trljc@altern.org> >> >wrote: S >> >> >> >>>In article <8sah60dn131s1pvie4eakpsc4hc1l7h7vt@4ax.com>,5 >> >>> Brad Clarke <screwthespammers@spam.com> wrote:d >> >>>F >> >>>:Too bad they weren't as effective as the folks at Google abuse. >> >>>, >> >>>Don't be coy, tell us the whole story.G >> >There was some idiot posting all kinds of useless garbage in one of B >> >the home theatre newsgroups via Google. He had posted the same9 >> >message 11 times that day, just changing the headers.0 >> >D >> >I reported him to the Google abuse folks and his privileges were$ >> >revoked by the end of that week. >> >E >> >He has since re-appeared using another e-mail address and posting B >> >via Google.  I spotted his new address spouting the same crap. >> >B >> >I replied to his message, listing all of the aliases he posted) >> >under, and he hasn't been back since.  >> >( >> >I wish it was that easy with others. >>B >> Well, that's the problem with you busybody netkops, you're very >> capricious  > aboutr >> who you go after. >>H >> Where are you when your assbuddy Mezei is trolling groups under these
 > aliases: >>B > It's more likely you are posting under those aliases, as you are > totally obsessed with JF.t  H Precisely - you're not the only one to come to this conclusion, either.   G To the anonymous fecal-wipe who posts the JF  Mezei vendetta: Have you nF never thought that your credibility was worthless the very second the A public witnesses you posting Mr Mezei's home address and contact cF information while you do so from an anonymous remailer ? What kind of I gutless, ball-less wonder does it take to insult someone while anonymous eH ? You don't have the balls to make all of the allegations against Mezei I under your real name and you certainly do not posess the courage to post  I your own home address, so why are you under the delusion that there is a oI single, verifiable person alive who has read your vendetta against Mezei n and believes it ?a     -- r Marc BissonnetteB CGI / Database / Web Management Tools: http://www.internalysis.comF Something To Sell? Looking To Buy? http://www.whitewaterclassifieds.ca1 Looking for a new ISP? http://www.canadianisp.com-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:59:11 -0500"" From: Tony Reed <trljc@altern.org>& Subject: Re: The J F  M e z e i  F A Q; Message-ID: <trljc-CEE429.06591131032004@news21.bellnet.ca>a  8 In article <6tbk60d4vl0ck0ueqlo1tosfkdre2mmp13@4ax.com>,/  Brad Clarke <screwthespammers@spam.com> wrote:u  I :I reported him to the Google abuse folks and his privileges were revoked( :by the end of that week.a  G Well, yeah, Google will deal with abusers, because they have a TOS and  H you have to give them a valid email address to sign up and like that. I I thought maybe Google wasn't accepting messages from anonymous remailers,  E which would be foolish of them. Note that they won't carry encrypted  G messages. There's alt.anonymous.messages, where you can post encrypted 0= stuff to your friends (and superiors in the Curiae, I guess).7   --   No sig yet for OS Xd   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2004 03:21:13 -0800# From: axica_nopub@yahoo.com (Safir)rY Subject: Re: This is a Last Mohican fight (was: [On-Topic]Inquirer: How the IT media mani = Message-ID: <2b49c9e0.0403310321.2ed685cb@posting.google.com>e   > O > (PS: The PS (Socialist Parti) won 20 against 22 regions in France yesterday. e! > Maybe I should emigrate too...)h    * VAX/VMS was fine under Mitterrand's reign.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:27:25 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>,? Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitablen0 Message-ID: <c4e2tu$dc0$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Jack Peacock wrote:o: > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:x1FmyJrmOSWo@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > C >>In article <39SdnWKtqPQjSPTdRVn-uQ@mpowercom.net>, "Jack Peacock"  >  > <peacock@simconv.com> writes:s > J >>>Course if I were an Intel stockholder I'd want to know why Intel didn't >  > buy  > B >>>out Intergraph years ago.  Think of the return on investment... >>C >>ROI?  Pretty good actually.  Assuming you bought INTC a year ago. @ >>The stock is up 70% since then.  So what was your point again? >> > N > Intergraph's ROI on the Itanium, not Intel.  So far Intergraph has collectedH > something in the neighborhood of $225 million on the Itanium alone, onI > (claimed) sales of 100K units, and no fab overhead, engineering alreadyhN > depreciated, no marketing, no distribution, and no channel partners to shareM > the profits.  A quick back of the envelope calculation says Intergraph mustoI > have made around $2000 per system, including the freebies handed out by0N > Intel.  Any computer company that could deliver boxes under those conditionsH > would have stratospheric stock prices.  I for one wish I'd bought into > Intergraph, not Intel. >   ? The $225 million is only one round in a series of cases broughtM> by Intergraph against Intel previous awards have been for $150 million.  8 The most recent settlement actually covers two different9 patent claims. Intel were being sued for infringements one7 patents held by Intergraph covering PIC which relate toi7 IPF, the Dell/HP/Gateway piece was for infringements of ; patents relating to Clipper. The Clipper infringements havew8 already been settled by Intel but that settlement didn't7 cover Intels x86 OEMS (until the Dell indemnity clause)  turned up).   N > The next obvious question to ask is if an operating system could infringe onJ > the parallel processing principles enumerated in the Intergraph patents?M > And has Intel indemnified H-P in case of a suit?  One sidelight of the case7I > is the fact that Dell had a secret agreement with Intel to cover patenteN > cases.  It was Dell that lost the case, but Intel had to pay the settlement. >   ? HP has not been indemnified as part of the Intel settlememt andf@ Integraph have said that they intend to continue with their case= against HP and Gateway. However that suite does not relate tos Itanium it covers x86 systems.  7 Given their track record it is possible that Intergrapho4 could also sue HP for the PIC based patents as well.  ? Incedentally the Intergraph model is one that has been followed3< closely by SCO and anyone who thinks that a relatively small: company cannot take big chunks out of a very large company: for IP infringement and therefore SCO will fail to prevail8 against IBM simply on that basis is deluding themselves.   regardsa Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:38:57 GMTi3 From: wallacethinmintr@eircom.net (Russell Wallace)h? Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable./ Message-ID: <406aad9c.34407181@news.eircom.net>   E On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:27:25 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyi. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  @ >Incedentally the Intergraph model is one that has been followed= >closely by SCO and anyone who thinks that a relatively smalle; >company cannot take big chunks out of a very large companyt; >for IP infringement and therefore SCO will fail to prevailh9 >against IBM simply on that basis is deluding themselves.u  F I don't think anyone's saying SCO will fail against IBM on that basis,E they're saying SCO will fail against IBM because they haven't so muchk as the vaguest shred of a case.d   -- o "Sore wa himitsu desu."k To reply by email, removeh the small snack from address.i! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacer   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:10:23 +0100tO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ? Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable 0 Message-ID: <c4efvv$hp2$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Russell Wallace wrote:G > On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:27:25 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyr0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  > A >>Incedentally the Intergraph model is one that has been followede> >>closely by SCO and anyone who thinks that a relatively small< >>company cannot take big chunks out of a very large company< >>for IP infringement and therefore SCO will fail to prevail: >>against IBM simply on that basis is deluding themselves. >  > H > I don't think anyone's saying SCO will fail against IBM on that basis,G > they're saying SCO will fail against IBM because they haven't so much ! > as the vaguest shred of a case.i >   ? I suspect that anyone who thinks that SCO do not have any basiss? whatsoever for suing IBM is deluding themselves. Clever lawyersS? choose chases that they think they have a chance of winning andc) SCO have one of the best in the business.p  @ I was refering to a school of thought in the anti-SCO camp which: ran along the lines of IBM huge company SCO tiny company =$ unequal contest that SCO cannot win.   regardso Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2004 05:43:44 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)? Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable.= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0403310543.47ea7f3f@posting.google.com>a  d "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> wrote in message news:<4vqdnQ2RcZq4k_fdRVn-sw@mpowercom.net>...: > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:x1FmyJrmOSWo@eisner.encompasserve.org... E > > In article <39SdnWKtqPQjSPTdRVn-uQ@mpowercom.net>, "Jack Peacock"e  >  <peacock@simconv.com> writes: > >nM > > > Course if I were an Intel stockholder I'd want to know why Intel didn'te >  buyE > > > out Intergraph years ago.  Think of the return on investment...h > >oE > > ROI?  Pretty good actually.  Assuming you bought INTC a year ago. B > > The stock is up 70% since then.  So what was your point again? > >eN > Intergraph's ROI on the Itanium, not Intel.  So far Intergraph has collectedH > something in the neighborhood of $225 million on the Itanium alone, onI > (claimed) sales of 100K units, and no fab overhead, engineering alreadypN > depreciated, no marketing, no distribution, and no channel partners to shareM > the profits.  A quick back of the envelope calculation says Intergraph must I > have made around $2000 per system, including the freebies handed out bysN > Intel.  Any computer company that could deliver boxes under those conditionsH > would have stratospheric stock prices.  I for one wish I'd bought into > Intergraph, not Intel.  : just give the alpha team some time and they will make it a money maker ...s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:03:33 +0200a  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>? Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitablee, Message-ID: <c4ej3l$eah$1@news.cybercity.dk>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > Russell Wallace wrote:H >> On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:27:25 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy1 >> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  >> >>C >>> Incedentally the Intergraph model is one that has been followed @ >>> closely by SCO and anyone who thinks that a relatively small> >>> company cannot take big chunks out of a very large company> >>> for IP infringement and therefore SCO will fail to prevail< >>> against IBM simply on that basis is deluding themselves. >> >>B >> I don't think anyone's saying SCO will fail against IBM on thatG >> basis, they're saying SCO will fail against IBM because they haven'te* >> so much as the vaguest shred of a case. >> > A > I suspect that anyone who thinks that SCO do not have any basisrA > whatsoever for suing IBM is deluding themselves. Clever lawyers A > choose chases that they think they have a chance of winning andr+ > SCO have one of the best in the business.t > B > I was refering to a school of thought in the anti-SCO camp which< > ran along the lines of IBM huge company SCO tiny company =& > unequal contest that SCO cannot win. >p  F A good rule is that "it ever gets to court, the result cannot be knownJ beforehand", and I would have expected SCO to have negotiated a settlement/ had their case had merit for that reason alone.g  G I am no expert, but I have not read anything suggesting that SCO have avE strong case, based on information revealed either publicly or via theiK courts.  It may be too early yet, or I have not been looking in the correctl places, I do not know.  L Andrew, you tend to know lots of things about Unix and the Unix marketplace,L so any pointers to articles favourable to the SCO suit would be of interest.I And while we are at it, as a non-Unix person, where does Solaris stand on-K the Unix genealogy tree and is it in the firing line sometime in the futureo ?o  
 Dr. Dweeb.  	 > regardsg > Andrew Harrison3   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:10:46 GMTo6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <KFarmer@NOSPAM.SpyderByte.com>? Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable < Message-ID: <WbBac.3341$w84.352068@twister.southeast.rr.com>  + "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com> wrote in messagef& news:c4ej3l$eah$1@news.cybercity.dk...* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > > Russell Wallace wrote:J > >> On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:27:25 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy3 > >> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:u > >> > >>E > >>> Incedentally the Intergraph model is one that has been followedaB > >>> closely by SCO and anyone who thinks that a relatively small@ > >>> company cannot take big chunks out of a very large company@ > >>> for IP infringement and therefore SCO will fail to prevail> > >>> against IBM simply on that basis is deluding themselves. > >> > >>D > >> I don't think anyone's saying SCO will fail against IBM on thatI > >> basis, they're saying SCO will fail against IBM because they haven't , > >> so much as the vaguest shred of a case. > >> > > C > > I suspect that anyone who thinks that SCO do not have any basisoC > > whatsoever for suing IBM is deluding themselves. Clever lawyershC > > choose chases that they think they have a chance of winning and - > > SCO have one of the best in the business.t > >hD > > I was refering to a school of thought in the anti-SCO camp which> > > ran along the lines of IBM huge company SCO tiny company =( > > unequal contest that SCO cannot win. > >y > A > Andrew, you tend to know lots of things about Unix and the Unixa marketplace,D > so any pointers to articles favourable to the SCO suit would be of	 interest.rK > And while we are at it, as a non-Unix person, where does Solaris stand oneF > the Unix genealogy tree and is it in the firing line sometime in the future > ?w   Unix History Timeline ( http://www.levenez.com/unix/history.html   SunOS & Solaris Version History - http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/solaris/versions/r  I Groklaw - best and most professionally done source of info on SCO fiasco,d IMHO.e http://www.groklaw.net/   J The behind the scenes stuff going on with SCO is unreal.  It's a tangle ofJ companies and money changing hands.  These guys are real slime and good atH what they do but they may have hit the wall on this one.  As you can see% below, Sun is neck deep in the slime.a  ( ----------------------------------------$ From eWeek: Who's Really Behind SCO? October 21, 2003 By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols9 http://www.eweek.com/print_article/0,1761,a=110203,00.aspi  J "Still, launching a major legal action entails major money, and SCO didn'tJ have it. But in February 2003, Sun quietly bought a Unix license from SCO.L In early March, SCO launched its IBM lawsuit. Coincidence? I don't think so.  E Why would Sun do this? First, IBM's AIX and pSeries servers are majoreL competitors to Sun's Solaris and SPARC systems. Remember: At the start, thisG was SCO vs. IBM, not SCO vs. Linux. Secondly, Linux on Intel has erodedsL Sun's vital Solaris/SPARC market far more than Windows has. The more trouble6 SCO can cause IBM and Linux, the better it is for Sun.K Since then the suit has grown bigger and broader. At the same time, though, F Sun and Microsoft have continued to support SCO with further licensing0 deals, and SCO's legal bills have grown bigger."' ---------------------------------------h  F There have been additional articles written examining who's behind SCO recently with more detail.  J Speaking of who's behind companies.  Check this article out about Gartner.  : The Inquirer: Magazine questions Gartner Group objectivity) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12525t       Kene   -- Kenneth Farmer  <><u OpenVMS.org  |  dcl.OpenVMS.orgn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:37:59 +0100iO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>h? Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitableu0 Message-ID: <c4eoko$kpd$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Kenneth Farmer wrote:i  A It would have been better if you had left that BS on your website 8 where it might be better placed that publishing it here.     > L > The behind the scenes stuff going on with SCO is unreal.  It's a tangle ofL > companies and money changing hands.  These guys are real slime and good atJ > what they do but they may have hit the wall on this one.  As you can see' > below, Sun is neck deep in the slime.l >   = Odd that you have forgotten the joint marketing campaign thatu= HP payed for with SCO where there was no mention of HP in theo@ campaign. Could it be a bung who knows but it has about the same level of substance as your FUD.   * > ----------------------------------------& > From eWeek: Who's Really Behind SCO? > October 21, 2003 > By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols; > http://www.eweek.com/print_article/0,1761,a=110203,00.aspn > L > "Still, launching a major legal action entails major money, and SCO didn'tL > have it. But in February 2003, Sun quietly bought a Unix license from SCO.N > In early March, SCO launched its IBM lawsuit. Coincidence? I don't think so. >   A Sun didn't quitely buy a UNIX license from SCO, we already have aeA UNIX license from USL why would Sun buy something it already had.i  A If you can think of a plausible explanation which doesn't involve 2 Black Helicopters then please feel free to air it.  ? Ironically if SCO win their case then HP your favourite company B will have no option but to distance themselves from direct attacksC on SCO, HP as a developer of IP understand just as well as everyonem! else that IP has to be protected.e   Regardsa Andrew HarrisoniG > Why would Sun do this? First, IBM's AIX and pSeries servers are majorhN > competitors to Sun's Solaris and SPARC systems. Remember: At the start, thisI > was SCO vs. IBM, not SCO vs. Linux. Secondly, Linux on Intel has erodedeN > Sun's vital Solaris/SPARC market far more than Windows has. The more trouble8 > SCO can cause IBM and Linux, the better it is for Sun.M > Since then the suit has grown bigger and broader. At the same time, though,oH > Sun and Microsoft have continued to support SCO with further licensing2 > deals, and SCO's legal bills have grown bigger.") > ---------------------------------------s > H > There have been additional articles written examining who's behind SCO > recently with more detail. > L > Speaking of who's behind companies.  Check this article out about Gartner. > < > The Inquirer: Magazine questions Gartner Group objectivity+ > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12525  >  >  >  > Kenr >  > -- > Kenneth Farmer  <>< ! > OpenVMS.org  |  dcl.OpenVMS.orgn >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:46:29 -0500p* From: "Brian Tillman" <tillmabg@yahoo.com>! Subject: RE: [ot?]Trademark Alphah' Message-ID: <0132A289.C22236@yahoo.com>    JF Mezei wrote:u  F > Perhaps this is just due diligence on their part to ensure that theyG > are actively protecting their trademark and all that they expect is ahC > friendly agreement between you two just to confirm that they havemC > taken the steps to protect their trademark and that it was agreedf@ > that your use of the word alpha doesn't interfere with theirs.  F Not a chance.  Companies that SPAM or sell SPAM tools seem to be quiteI determined to do maximum damage to anyone they perceive as being in theirn way. -- h
 Brian Tillmans   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2004 07:21:37 -0800& From: twnews@kittles.com (Thomas Wirt)! Subject: Re: [ot?]Trademark Alphau= Message-ID: <b3531425.0403310721.5803f4ec@posting.google.com>t   Don Sykes wrote: > I > This is a sad tale that may lead me to a bright, new career in the dog   > walking industry.a > H > A Digital employee until 1992, I was shocked when I was caught in the I > 2nd round of layoffs and given severance. My reaction was to create my nJ > own consulting business. Naturally enough, I wanted to associate myself G > with the new Alpha processor. So, with Digital's consent, I filed my  J > business papers - DBA: "Alpha Software Engineering". Eight years later, F > with Digital gone and little hope for Compaq's investment in VMS, I K > threw myself into Java application development and incorporated as well. tG > Wanting to keep my domain name and association with my remaining VMS mF > customers, I incorporated as "Alpha Software Express, LLC". All the J > while using the domain AlphaSE.COM (which stood nicely for either Alpha $ > Software Engineering, or Express). > D > Then, this past Friday, I got a 'cease and desist' order from the K > attorneys representing "Alpha Software, Inc." charging me with Trademark r  D I am no lawyer, and I could be way off here, but I remember hearing D when Digital first decided to use Alpha for the actual product name,A that they were reluctant because you could not trademark a singlemB Greek (or English) letter such as Alpha.  I have discussed this asB friendly conversation over the years with several attorneys that I@ know and they have always agreed.  If this company is claiming aE trademark on Alpha I think that you explore if this is even possible.   F > Infringement. They are insisting I give up BOTH names as well as my J > domain name! Since their domain name is "AlphaSoftware.com" you'd think ; > they'd be happy as clams. But now they want mine as well! G > Ironically, they are a Burlington Mass based corporation (probably a dK > stone's throw from an old DEC office). It's also odd, I think, that even eK > though they have nothing to do with the Alpha processor, they managed to hC > coexist with Digital when it trademarked Alpha as their chip set.  > I > Since I now have to prepare for a legal battle with a MUCH larger foe, 0I > I've been doing a lot of research into Trademarks and their usage. The  J > biggest factor seems to be confusion in the marketplace. Which leads to  >  a question for this group.  > C > Has anyone ever confused me (Alpha Software Express) with "Alpha g > Software, Inc." ?t >   / I have never confused your company with theirs.   G > Also, any little-known information you may want to share on this foe s > will be welcomed.- >  <snip>  	 Good Lucka   Thomas Wirt    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:26:24 +0200Q* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>! Subject: Re: [ot?]Trademark Alphai: Message-ID: <c4ev01$2fk8lc$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de>   Keith Cayemberg wrote:; >And also to specifically answer your question. I have beenuD > using/programming-on/teaching OpenVMS since 1981(and using Tops-10D > before that). I have also conducted my own OpenVMS market researchH > since about 1997. Alpha Software was unknown to me until you mentionedG > them in your recent posting. In contrast, your company has been knownqH > to me for a couple years. Ideed, I once made a posting about available6 > graphics solutions for VMS which included your firm. > a > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3a65a5c8.0309091217.4c05cfe1%40posting.google.com&oe=UTF-8n > A > I have never encountered one instance of confusion between yourmC > company and Alpha Software. Indeed, a Google Groups search of themE > COMP.OS.VMS collection back to 1994 results in ONE match. It's youre > recent posting to COV... > r > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=alphasoftware&btnG=Search&meta=group%3Dcomp.os.vms    E My 2 cents then. IANAL etc. I first came across the Alpha 4 database w0 product in 1993. IIRC it was a DOS only product.  H At the time I thought "How can they use the name Alpha when DEC already G has it?". But there were tons of other company names using Alpha, so I r didn't think much more of it.e   Now let's wander over to  . http://www.alphasoftware.com/about/default.asp  I "We believe that most database applications can be built without writing mH code. We also recognize that even people who know how to program, would H rather work with a menu driven solution than write code. Our philosophy H is that as the complexity of the problem increases, the software should G have the sophistication to provide a natural "menu driven" solution to  I the problem. In certain circumstances however, coding is appropriate and PH provides supreme flexibility. To this end, our Xbasic language has been I designed to be an extremely powerful and versatile language for creating c  highly customized applications."  E Uh? Menu driven development better than code? A completely different h2 philosophy from  anyone providing real VMS skills!  I And that it precisely why I got pissed off with their DOS version. I was aF supposed to slog through menu after menu to define a database and its  relationships.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:25:44 GMTs4 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com>6 Subject: Re: [OT] Outlook 2003 efficiency against spam& Message-ID: <406AC3FF.1E515919@hp.com>   Nigel Barker wrote:  > R > Take a look at www.spambayes.org for extra SPAM/Junk mail filtering. It providesP > an add-in to Outlook which does some extra filtering putting some mails into aR > Junk Suspects folder. It also adds two extra buttons, Recover from SPAM & DeleteL > as SPAM. It apparently learns from your training & at least gives you someR > feeling of control when you hit the Delete as SPAM button knowing that in future< > similar mail messages will be directly filed in Junk Mail. >  > -- > Nigel Barker! > Live from the sunny Cote d'Azuri   Add my vote for spambayes.H After weekends removes circa 200 spams from a total of 230 - 250 emails!   Mike --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*iF Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----i Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------h   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.179 ************************or the quorum4 > > : disk doesn't introduce a new point of failure. > >h@ > > I don't understand ... why have a quorum disk at all if it's > > a device that's not shared?* > >*@ > > Why not just give the 26 at Host 192.91.147.194 accepted.> <<< SIZE vframe.uilk >>> 213 1126 <<< RETR vframe.uilf >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/vtoolkit/src/vframe.uil (1126 bytes) started.9 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  878 (8) bytes transferred.r' <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/W4 >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40.
 <<< noop >>> 200 No-operation OK.' <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/04 >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40.	 <<< PWD1> >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/freewarev40" is current directory.4 <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/vtoolkit/src/A >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/vtoolkit/src.l <<< TYPE I >>> 200 Type I ok.! <<< PORT 192,91,147,194,137,227a7 >>> 200 Port 137.227 at Host 192.91.147.194 accepted.> <<< SIZE vframep.h >>> 213 1864 <<< RETR vframep.he >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/vtoolkit/src/vframep.h (1864 bytes) started.s: >>> 226 Transfer completed.  120