1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 10 May 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 259       Contents:? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... ? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... ? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... * Re: AUTOGEN and swap and page file (names)N Re: DCLER (DCL Enhancement Request) for DIRECTORY /SORT=[CREATED,MODIFIED,...]8 Re: DCLER (DCL Enhancement Request) for SET PROMPT: Time8 Re: DCLER (DCL Enhancement Request) for SET PROMPT: Time Re: DEC C fsync and fflush: Re: DEC/Compaq/HP C RTL v. multi-dot file/directory names?: Re: DEC/Compaq/HP C RTL v. multi-dot file/directory names?, Enabling External Authentication for OpenVMS0 RE: Enabling External Authentication for OpenVMS Re: environmental consoles...  Re: environmental consoles...  Re: EVE customizations Re: EVE customizationsJ Re: HP World Magazine: For Business Continuity...the answer may be OpenVMSP Re: HP World Magazine: For Business Continuity...the answer may be OpenVMS OpenVA Re: Intel is killing processors today, will itanium be axed too ?  Is ZIP on VMS a process hog?  Re: Is ZIP on VMS a process hog?, Re: Newbie Queue Manager in cluster question, Re: Newbie Queue Manager in cluster question, Re: Newbie Queue Manager in cluster question, OpenVMS Marketshare x Products Consolidation0 Re: OpenVMS Marketshare x Products Consolidation Re: pine or related on VMS6 Re: problem with installation from layered-products CD( Re: Queuing a file to print from FORTRAN( Re: Queuing a file to print from FORTRAN( Re: Queuing a file to print from FORTRAN Reserved TCP/IP Port Numbers? ! RE: Reserved TCP/IP Port Numbers?  Re: RRD46 tray won't stay in Suggestion for TYPE command  Re: Suggestion for TYPE command  Re: Suggestion for TYPE command  Re: Suggestion for TYPE command   Re: Trip down [core] memory lane Re: VMS mentioned in the press' VMS Postscript Printing - Forms Overlay + Re: VMS Postscript Printing - Forms Overlay + Re: VMS Postscript Printing - Forms Overlay  XDMP and TCPIP 5.4 Re: XDMP and TCPIP 5.4) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised , Re: [OT] An interesting view of Linux's cost, Re: [OT] An interesting view of Linux's cost1 Re: [OT] HP ,Post-Compaq, Looks Like Its Old Self   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:22:21 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....0 Message-ID: <c7nl4t$g1u$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote: s > Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<c7i9s4$p83$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  >>Keith Parris wrote:  >> >>b >>>"Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<c6csgq$1bmh$1@news.cybercity.dk>... >>>  >>> K >>>>Is Sun making it self ready for a Sparcide?  When Sun does not have the M >>>>resources to complete the UltraSparc V project why don't they collaborate O >>>>with Fujitsu on big servers?  Fujitsu has some very interesting projects on  >>>>SPARC64. >>> B >>Funny, Sun is being slated for axing a processor (USV) in favourC >>of one that no one outside Sun knew existed before January (Rock) / >>and this is being touted as the end of SPARC.  >>? >>It doesn't take much intelligence to work out that this isn't $ >>actually a very logical possition. >  > : > Sun must replace hot air with firm chip detail - Gartner> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/07/gartner_callson_sun/ >  > G >>>But how long will Fujitsu continue to pour money down the SPARC hole 8 >>>when they see Sun themselves cancelling CPU projects? >>> A >>>Fujitsu has already started shipping systems based on Itanium: d >>>http://www.computerworld.com/hardwaretopics/hardware/story/0,10801,88366,00.html?from=story_picks+ >>>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7392  >>>  >>8 >>Given Itaniums problems if you really think that SPARC8 >>is a dead platform then Fuji don't seem to have made a >>very smart move. >  > Q > I don't think Fujitsu shipped more than about 20000-40000 Sparc CPUs last year.  >   6 So who do you think shipped 20000-40000 Intanium CPU's last year ?    NEC no. 
 Unisys no. IBM no.  SGI no.  Fuji no.( HP possibly but even 20000 sounds rather optimistic.      > 9 >>Itanium is for HP, the sooner the rest of the Intel OEM ; >>community wake up to that fact the better (for them), IBM ? >>already have and its only a matter of time before NEC, Unisys < >>and the rest give up on what have been a major problem for >>HP and a disaster for them.  >  >  > That is FUD.. > IBM have not changed their Itanium plans and( > NEC is doing pretty well with Itanium.  3 This is not FUD, IBM have chosen not to use Itanium 8 for their next generation high end Intel based SMP boxes; this was key design win that Itanium needed. IBM considered 8 Itanium but rejected it because it was too expensive and not fast enough.  7 And I seen no signs that NEC is doing well with Itanium 6 perhaps you could provide some references. Remember it4 isn't one off referencable sales that matter but how7 many units you actually sell based on those references.      Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:30:26 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....0 Message-ID: <c7nlk3$g9i$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote: > ----Original Message-----  >  > 8 >>Given Itaniums problems if you really think that SPARC8 >>is a dead platform then Fuji don't seem to have made a >>very smart move. >>9 >>Itanium is for HP, the sooner the rest of the Intel OEM ; >>community wake up to that fact the better (for them), IBM ? >>already have and its only a matter of time before NEC, Unisys < >>and the rest give up on what have been a major problem for >>HP and a disaster for them.  >>	 >>Regards  >>Andrew Harrison  >> >  > 	 > Andrew,  > + > Those last two paragraph's are pure fud.   >   @ Rubbish, no one except HP makes a showing in the Itanium market,? IBM a key Itanium must win chose x86-64 for their next high end E SMP server having rejected Itanium because of poor price performance.   > Show me the Unisys Itanium market share numbers or the numbers for NEC, SGI etc etc.   B Even Dell who have an exclusive deal with Intel are hardly pushing Itanium are they.   ; These are facts you seem as always to be suffering from the  unconfortable fact syndrome.    G > Especially if you take at look at the following article that looks at G > why Sun is so anti-Itanium: (and potentially why Fujitsu has seen the  > writing on the wall..) > ) > http://www.techuser.net/index.php?id=46  > Will Sun adopt Itanium?  > by latif  [Apr 17, 2004] >   8 That of course was FUD or did you think that speculation; by an unnamed uncontactable contributor relating to his/her 8 idea that Sun could aquire SGI to get a high end Itanium* platform was fact based ??????????????????  . As always you refute your own point well done.   Regards  Andrew Harrison   ( > [..snip..see url for complete article] > G > "Just accepting cash from Microsoft has not changed anything for Sun; I > the company still needs to stem its losses quickly. The big problem for E > Sun is that its cost structure is out of whack. Sun's Management is @ > aggressively cutting jobs, and has axed several of its plannedA > processors as well, but as long as the company keeps on pouring H > resources into processor development, it won't be competitive with itsC > rivals. Even worse, Sun's UltraSparc chips are starting to lag in : > performance in comparison to Intel's Itanium offerings.  > J > Slowly but surely Itanium is going to achieve much higher volumes, and aJ > more attractive price point. Intel has indicated that it is striving forD > price parity between Itanium and Xeon by 2007. If Intel is able toH > achieve even 50 percent of its goals, Sun will be out of business. SunJ > needs to move over to Itanium, and the company needs to do that quickly.F > However, recently a Sun executive indicated recently that Sun has noF > plans to move to Itanium, and that the company believes Itanium is aB > technological dead-end. This is pure FUD; Sun executives are notG > trust-worthy (as demonstrated by McNealy,) and their babblings should E > not be taken seriously. Itanium is a huge threat for Sun, and Sun's H > management knows it. The company would like to move to Itanium, but is > unable to do so.   > J > Sun's biggest problem in transitioning to Itanium is that the company isI > very late to the party. Sun has no expertise in designing systems built E > around the Itanium architecture, but its main competitors have been G > designing Itanium based systems for a long time now. Consequently, if D > Sun switches to Itanium, it will have to play second fiddle to itsI > competitors. On top of that, coming up with a complete range of systems E > built around the Itanium will require considerable time and expense ( > which Sun can ill afford at this time. > 
 > [..snip] > 	 > Regards  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant  > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax: 613-591-4477  > Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . > (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:35:03 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....0 Message-ID: <c7nstn$io3$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Keith Parris wrote: a > "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<c6csgq$1bmh$1@news.cybercity.dk>...  > I >>Is Sun making it self ready for a Sparcide?  When Sun does not have the K >>resources to complete the UltraSparc V project why don't they collaborate M >>with Fujitsu on big servers?  Fujitsu has some very interesting projects on 
 >>SPARC64. >  > F > But how long will Fujitsu continue to pour money down the SPARC hole7 > when they see Sun themselves cancelling CPU projects?  > @ > Fujitsu has already started shipping systems based on Itanium:c > http://www.computerworld.com/hardwaretopics/hardware/story/0,10801,88366,00.html?from=story_picks * > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7392 > = > Fujitsu plans to sell 128-CPU Itanium systems by next year: : > http://www.entmag.com/news/article.asp?EditorialsID=5673  8 With almost perfect timing Intel has announced that they< are not going to deliver Tejas and a range of other x86-64 ? processors.   ; Instead they are going to use the bounty provided by Moores > law to build multi core modules, with each core probably being@ based on the much shorter Pentium M pipeline. They are not goingA to build higher and higer clock rate CPU's with longer and longer ) pipelines and an increasing power budget.   7 Tejas and Prescott both increase the Pipeline length 20 6 for Xeon to 30+, Pentium M has a much shorter pipeline generally thought to be 14.   : How amazing, anyone notice the similarity between this and9 USV-Rock, they even cite the same reasons for doing this.   8 Looks like Physics has finally caught up with you Keith.   Regards  Andrew Harrison   ? P.S If you don't know why the pipeline length is important then 	 just ask.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:10:48 +1000 1 From: David J McKenzie <david@mckenziefamily.biz> 3 Subject: Re: AUTOGEN and swap and page file (names) C Message-ID: <409f5522$0$74027$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:   G > I know that I can tell AUTOGEN not to mess with page files, and in my H > case, since the values for the sizes are either hard-coded or set to aF > minimum value which is more than large enough, it doesn't, no matterJ > what arguments I execute it with.  Rather, I'm trying to understand what > is going on. > I > Due to reasons I can no longer figure out, AUTOGEN has the names of two  > page files reversed. > = > In MODPARAMS.DAT, I specify PAGEFILE1_NAME, PAGEFILE2_NAME, I > SWAPFILE1_NAME and SWAPFILE2_NAME.  I have two page and two swap files, H > with the primary ones being on the system disk.  The primary files areG > "1", the others are "2".  I have run AUTOGEN several times, more than F > enough to "clean things out", but have not rebooted several times if' > that is needed to "clean things out".  > E > AUTOGEN complains that there are duplicate values for both pagefile D > names and one of the swap file names.  In the case of the pagefileH > names, they are reversed, as indicated (as seen in AGEN$PARAMS.REPORT)G > but they are not reversed in the case of the swapfile names.  It says E > that the values in MODPARAMS.DAT will override those in PARAMS.DAT. G > However, they don't----the wrong name is used in the calculation, and H > even after a reboot things don't change.  (In the case of the swapfileI > names, in one case there is a ";" at the end, in the other there isn't. F > Perhaps that is why it is complaining about duplicate names (though,I > strangely, it only does so for one, not for both) even though the names  > appear to be correct.) > G > I've even---shudder---tried editing PARAMS.DAT and AGEN$FEEDBACK.DAT, % > but even that doesn't seem to work!  > J > Is there any way I can get AUTOGEN to make a completely fresh start with- > respect to the pagefile and swapfile names?  > H > Since the pagefile and swapfile names are not system parameters in theJ > narrow sense, it is difficult to see what a running system really thinks > they are.  > D > Where does AUTOGEN get its information as to what the pagefile andG > swapfile names are on the running system?  If MODPARAMS.DAT specifies J > the correct values, and (after editing) PARAMS.DAT and AGEN$FEEDBACK.DAT> > do so as well, why is it still picking up the "wrong" value?  J I always found it easier to tell autogen not to mess with these valuues by  
 pagefile=0
 swapfile=o
 dumpfile=0  4 and then install them myself in startup using sysgen   then the name problem goes away   9 can't remember the sysgen syntax but it is something like   	 mc sysgen - install disk:[pagefile]pagefile_anything/page        --  . David McKenzie  david@rugby.mckenziefamily.biz   remove rugby   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:06:09 -0400 < From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>W Subject: Re: DCLER (DCL Enhancement Request) for DIRECTORY /SORT=[CREATED,MODIFIED,...] ) Message-ID: <2g9njiF9vuuU1@uni-berlin.de>    Paul Sture wrote:  >...@ > Peter Weaver posted this neat trick with dates on 30-Apr-2004: > @ > Make sure you run it with SET TERM/WIDTH=132 to avoid wrapping > ...   F Actually, if the terminal is set to 80 the wrap should be OK, but hereF is an "Improved" version that handles the terminal wrap better as longG as you have the terminal width set to 80. Watch the two long lines, the C comments tell you how many spaces should be there. (It sure is nice * seeing VMS postings in comp.os.vms again!)   $ ASSIGN LIB$DATE_FORMAT_037,-    LIB$TIME_FORMAT_001 -    LIB$DT_FORMAT/USER_MODE% $ directx -  ! Ignore any DIR symbols     /date=modified-     /width=(file:80,display:132)-6    /out=sys$scratch:sort_date_'f$getjpi("","PID")'.tmp: $ sort sys$scratch:sort_date_'f$getjpi("","PID")'.tmp tt:-     /specification=sys$input: * /field=(name=filename1,position:1,size:19)+ /field=(name=filename2,position:20,size:60) + /field=(name=datefield,position:83,size:22) / /condition=(name=shortname,test=(filename2 eq " *                            ")) ! 60 spaces. /condition=(name=longname,test=(filename2 ne ")                           ")) ! 60 spaces  /include=(condition=shortname, key=datefield, data=filename1,  data="  ", ! 2 spaces  data=datefield)  /include=(condition=longname,  key=datefield, data=filename1,  data=filename2, * data="                      ", ! 22 spaces data=datefield) H $ delete/nolog/noconfirm sys$scratch:sort_date_'f$getjpi("","PID")'.tmp.   --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:02:53 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>A Subject: Re: DCLER (DCL Enhancement Request) for SET PROMPT: Time * Message-ID: <2g8upuF5qc81U1@uni-berlin.de>   Alan E. Feldman wrote:^ > Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message news:<2g5u52F4orm9U1@uni-berlin.de>... >  >>Alan E. Feldman wrote: >>E >>>Any chance of having a time option added to SET PROMPT? Perhaps it I >>>could be added F$FAO style. Note: The time would be static -- it would ; >>>just be the time that the prompt appeared on the screen.  >>J >>It's already there. It can be very useful for batch jobs in conjunction  >>with verification. >> >>& >>$ SET PROMPT="''F$fao("!5%T",0)' $ "	 >>07:30 > 	 >>07:31 > - >>07:31 > SET PROMPT="''F$fao("!17%D",0)' $ "  >>  9-MAY-2004 07:31 > >>  9-MAY-2004 07:31 > >  > G > Yes, I tried this. But it didn't work. I got the time alright. But it F > was "frozen". That is, the time didn't advance with repeated pressesH > of the Return key. And I don't see how your example could have worked.E > The rules of DCL would evaluate the lexical function before the SET E > PROMPT command would be executed, resulting in a fixed-time string,  > which is NOT what I want.  > E > I tried it on VMS 6.2. What is your VMS? How could it have possibly B > worked given the symbol substituion rules of apostrophes in DCL?   Sorry, I got mixed up there.  I I was along the right lines when I said "It can be very useful for batch  ' jobs in conjunction with verification."   I I was thinking instead of $ SET PREFIX "(!5%T) " which displays the time  H for verified command lines. See HELP SET PREFIX for a full description,  including the examples.   H I'm pretty sure that SET PREFIX was there in the 6.2 era, if not before.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2004 07:00:52 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)A Subject: Re: DCLER (DCL Enhancement Request) for SET PROMPT: Time = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0405100600.37afc0ce@posting.google.com>   \ Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message news:<2g8upuF5qc81U1@uni-berlin.de>... > Alan E. Feldman wrote:` > > Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message news:<2g5u52F4orm9U1@uni-berlin.de>... > >  > >>Alan E. Feldman wrote: > >>G > >>>Any chance of having a time option added to SET PROMPT? Perhaps it K > >>>could be added F$FAO style. Note: The time would be static -- it would = > >>>just be the time that the prompt appeared on the screen.  > >>L > >>It's already there. It can be very useful for batch jobs in conjunction  > >>with verification. > >> > >>( > >>$ SET PROMPT="''F$fao("!5%T",0)' $ " > >>07:30 >  > >>07:31 > / > >>07:31 > SET PROMPT="''F$fao("!17%D",0)' $ "  > >>  9-MAY-2004 07:31 > > >>  9-MAY-2004 07:31 > > >  > > I > > Yes, I tried this. But it didn't work. I got the time alright. But it H > > was "frozen". That is, the time didn't advance with repeated pressesJ > > of the Return key. And I don't see how your example could have worked.G > > The rules of DCL would evaluate the lexical function before the SET G > > PROMPT command would be executed, resulting in a fixed-time string,  > > which is NOT what I want.  > > G > > I tried it on VMS 6.2. What is your VMS? How could it have possibly D > > worked given the symbol substituion rules of apostrophes in DCL? >  > Sorry, I got mixed up there. > K > I was along the right lines when I said "It can be very useful for batch  ) > jobs in conjunction with verification."  > K > I was thinking instead of $ SET PREFIX "(!5%T) " which displays the time  J > for verified command lines. See HELP SET PREFIX for a full description,  > including the examples.  > J > I'm pretty sure that SET PREFIX was there in the 6.2 era, if not before.  E Yes, I know about SET PREFIX and I've used it, too. Very helpful. But F I'd still like to see the time in the interactive DCL prompt. It's not the same thing.   &                              ----o----  C I see I need to clear up my description of "static time". It should F work like it does in MS-DOS. The time is updated every time the promptE returns after an interactive command completes execution AND whenever D the prompt is already present and the Return key is pressed. StratusE VOS has a similar thing but you don't get new prompts by pressing the E Return key. What I meant by "static time" in my original post is that C the time doesn't get updated continuously like it does in the upper @ right hand corner of a SHOW PROC/CONT display. But it does get a= one-time update each time a new prompt appears on the screen, E including those generated by pressing Return when no command is being  run. I hope it's clear now!    Thanks.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2004 08:12:45 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: DEC C fsync and fflush 3 Message-ID: <92dQ+gpCqYuK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   F In article <109q3iqifb3rid4@corp.supernews.com>, Z <z@no.spam> writes:> > If using fsync() to flush unwritten data to disk, should you= > also call fflush(), first, to flush unwritten data from the 
 > RTL to RMS?   1    I have always found fflush() alone sufficient.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:11:38 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> C Subject: Re: DEC/Compaq/HP C RTL v. multi-dot file/directory names? 0 Message-ID: <_QNnc.1130$%c.455@news.cpqcorp.net>   Brad,   L I think the real problem may be a need for some online/network documentationJ that spells out the UNIX filepath capabilities.  If you do a random googleJ search - you find some stuff on V7.3-1, but almost nothing on V7.3-2 - andJ nothing that really spells out the current state of affairs, features, and limitations.      @ "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com> wrote in message* news:109r5f4bh0sf6ab@corp.supernews.com...D > I'm not sure what documentation you are seeing this stuff in, but, multipleJ > dots is not a problem as far as I can tell, if you set the right feature# > switch (decc$filename_unix_only):  >  > CRTL_$ ty mkdir_test.c > #include <stdio.h> > #include <stat.h>  > #include <string.h>  > #include <errno.h> >  > main() > { . >     if (mkdir ( "junk/ab.cd/gh", 0777) != 0)@ >          printf("? mkdir() failed:\n\t%s\n", strerror(errno)); > }  > CRTL_$ cc mkdir_test > CRTL_$ link mkdir_test > CRTL_$ run mkdir_test  > ? mkdir() failed: ) >         file specification syntax error ) > CRTL_$ define decc$filename_unix_only 1  > CRTL_$ run mkdir_test  > CRTL_$ dir [.junk]ab*  > * > Directory USER1$:[MCCUSKER.SCRATCH.junk] >  > ab^.cd.DIR;1 >  > Total of 1 file. > CRTL_$ > 0 > Get the latest ACRTL ECO if you dont' already. >  > Latest documentation is atH > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732final/5763/5763pro.html - Section 1.6 talks L > about the feature switches.  Please let us know if that does the trick for > you. >  > Brad McCusker  > C RTL Project Leader >  >    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:28:55 -0500 (CDT)  From: sms@antinode.orgC Subject: Re: DEC/Compaq/HP C RTL v. multi-dot file/directory names? ) Message-ID: <04051011285497@antinode.org>   9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>   N > I think the real problem may be a need for some online/network documentationL > that spells out the UNIX filepath capabilities.  If you do a random googleL > search - you find some stuff on V7.3-1, but almost nothing on V7.3-2 - andL > nothing that really spells out the current state of affairs, features, and > limitations.  E    Just now, I started at "http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/index.html", + followed the link for "HP C for OpenVMS" to H "http://h71000.www7.hp.com/commercial/c/c_index.html", thence for "C for OpenVMS Alpha documentation" to H "http://h71000.www7.hp.com/commercial/c/index_alpha.html", thence for "C% Run-Time Library Reference Manual" to H "http://h71000.www7.hp.com/commercial/c/docs/5763P.html", which is dated "February 2002".  -    Apparently, that's not the latest edition.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode.org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2004 08:46:29 -0700. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)5 Subject: Enabling External Authentication for OpenVMS = Message-ID: <f30679fb.0405100746.49e1ae39@posting.google.com>   - Do you know any other product / configuration 3 which enables External Autentication under OpenVMS  ' instead of Pathworks/Advanced Server?   / We are planning a single signon envirnoment but . there are some differencs between the password4 format under OVMS and IBM/RACF (special characters).  5 In case of not, can an OVMS server be only a BDC like  for other Windows domain ?      OpenVMS Guide to System Security  $ 7.4 Enabling External Authentication  P External authentication allows users to log in (or sign on) at the OpenVMS loginE prompt using their external user IDs and passwords. The PATHWORKS and L Advanced Server for OpenVMS authentication modules are supported as externalH authenticators, providing NT-compatible authentication of OpenVMS users.R When successfully authenticated, the external user ID is mapped to the appropriate; OpenVMS user name and the correct user profile is obtained. S By default, external authentication is disabled at both the system and user levels. B However, when you invoke PATHWORKS or Advanced Server for OpenVMS,Q external authentication is automatically enabled, if the system administrator has F defined logical names in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM and marked user accounts inQ the SYSUAF, as described in the following paragraphs. No additional configuration I is necessary on cluster members running the Advanced Server to enable the F Advanced Server to participate in the external authentication process. (...)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:46:17 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> 9 Subject: RE: Enabling External Authentication for OpenVMS R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB31446A@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----: > From: Fabio Cardoso [mailto:fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br]=20 > Sent: May 10, 2004 11:46 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 7 > Subject: Enabling External Authentication for OpenVMS  >=20/ > Do you know any other product / configuration 7 > which enables External Autentication under OpenVMS=20 + > instead of Pathworks/Advanced Server? =20 1 > We are planning a single signon envirnoment but 0 > there are some differencs between the password6 > format under OVMS and IBM/RACF (special characters). >=207 > In case of not, can an OVMS server be only a BDC like  > for other Windows domain ? >=20 >=20" > OpenVMS Guide to System Security >=20& > 7.4 Enabling External Authentication >=20@ > External authentication allows users to log in (or sign on)=20 > at the OpenVMS loginG > prompt using their external user IDs and passwords. The PATHWORKS and ; > Advanced Server for OpenVMS authentication modules are=20  > supported as external > > authenticators, providing NT-compatible authentication of=20 > OpenVMS users.= > When successfully authenticated, the external user ID is=20  > mapped to the appropriate = > OpenVMS user name and the correct user profile is obtained. @ > By default, external authentication is disabled at both the=20 > system and user levels. D > However, when you invoke PATHWORKS or Advanced Server for OpenVMS,= > external authentication is automatically enabled, if the=20  > system administrator hasH > defined logical names in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM and marked user accounts in= > the SYSUAF, as described in the following paragraphs. No=20  > additional configuration@ > is necessary on cluster members running the Advanced Server=20 > to enable the H > Advanced Server to participate in the external authentication process. > (...)      Fabio -   H Most Customers looking at SSO type designs are using an LDAP or KerberosA based design. See the following V7.3-2 security guides which have ' updates on how to do this with OpenVMS:   B http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732FINAL/aa-q2hlg-te/aa-q2hlg-te.PDFB http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732final/aa-rscub-te/aa-rscub-te.PDFB http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732FINAL/aa-rueba-te/aa-rueba-te.PDF   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 01:53:20 GMT % From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> & Subject: Re: environmental consoles...9 Message-ID: <kgBnc.29050$ee7.28185@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>   E Alex Daniels <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> wrote in message # news:c7ma9n$npn$1@news.wplus.net... 2 > "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> wrote in message4 > news:SMxnc.28304$ee7.3126@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...K > > Ok, I was replacing a failed power supply and the environmental console K > > question came up this morning.  The FE and I came up with this list for  > the  > > Alphaservers that I have.  > > A > > These are all accessed by the "OPA0" port on the Alphaserver. / > > 4000   ^]^]RCM  (control-], control-], rcm)  > > DS10L esc-esc-rmc  > > DS10 esc-esc-rmc0 > > DS20E   ^]^]RCM  (control-], control-], rcm) > > DS25    esc-esc-rmc  > > ES40.  esc-esc-rmc > > ES45.  esc-esc-rmc > > GS160/320 esc-esc-scm  > > K > > Marvel line.  Here is where they re-designed and split up the consoles. K > > ES47/GS1280  "Connect" to get to the Alphaserver console port(s) if not D > > already actively monitored or connected.  esc-esc-MBM to return.J > > Note: All consoles for the Marvel line are Telnet sessions through the SMC H > > router.  MBM console on port 23.  Alphaserver consoles for the SBB's start % > > at port 323 and go up from there.  > >  >  > That is wrong.  H It's not wrong if you are doing remote console access/monitoring of your Alphaserver systems.  I > While it is not documented anywhere I have seen, you can plug a console L > directly into the first 2P unit in each RAD (into the 9pin Serial) and useG > this as a serial console. I have done this on both ES80's and ES47's.   D It is documented.  It's shown as the serial console port on the ES47$ diagrams.  It's also labeled SERIAL.  J > You do not have to use the NAT box to get a console. Although you shouldL > still run a cable up to the NAT box, or you can get some errors on bootingE > from MBM to SRM. You can then use your incumbant Console Monitoring  software' > via a terminal server if you so wish.  >   L No, you do not NEED to use the NAT box.  But if you want to save some $$$ onL terminal servers and 9-pin adapters by using the capabilities that the enginL eers built into the system.  Why not.?  I need to be able to sit at home (OrK anywhere I can VPN through the Internet) and access the console ports on my K Alphaservers for support purposes.  If you insist on walking into your data D center and connecting a serial cable.  So be it.  That's your style.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 03:30:45 +0100 < From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk>& Subject: Re: environmental consoles...* Message-ID: <c7mpfp$2phd$1@news.wplus.net>  0 "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> wrote in message3 news:kgBnc.29050$ee7.28185@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...  > G > Alex Daniels <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> wrote in message % > news:c7ma9n$npn$1@news.wplus.net... 4 > > "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> wrote in message6 > > news:SMxnc.28304$ee7.3126@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...E > > > Ok, I was replacing a failed power supply and the environmental  console I > > > question came up this morning.  The FE and I came up with this list  for  > > the  > > > Alphaservers that I have.  > > > C > > > These are all accessed by the "OPA0" port on the Alphaserver. 1 > > > 4000   ^]^]RCM  (control-], control-], rcm)e > > > DS10L esc-esc-rmcC > > > DS10 esc-esc-rmc2 > > > DS20E   ^]^]RCM  (control-], control-], rcm) > > > DS25    esc-esc-rmc. > > > ES40.  esc-esc-rmc > > > ES45.  esc-esc-rmc > > > GS160/320 esc-esc-scmn > > >mC > > > Marvel line.  Here is where they re-designed and split up theD	 consoles.eI > > > ES47/GS1280  "Connect" to get to the Alphaserver console port(s) ifn nottF > > > already actively monitored or connected.  esc-esc-MBM to return.L > > > Note: All consoles for the Marvel line are Telnet sessions through the > SMClJ > > > router.  MBM console on port 23.  Alphaserver consoles for the SBB's > starti' > > > at port 323 and go up from there.E > > >i > >t > > That is wrong. >rJ > It's not wrong if you are doing remote console access/monitoring of your > Alphaserver systems. >VK > > While it is not documented anywhere I have seen, you can plug a console J > > directly into the first 2P unit in each RAD (into the 9pin Serial) and useeI > > this as a serial console. I have done this on both ES80's and ES47's.  > F > It is documented.  It's shown as the serial console port on the ES47& > diagrams.  It's also labeled SERIAL. >eL > > You do not have to use the NAT box to get a console. Although you shouldF > > still run a cable up to the NAT box, or you can get some errors on booting G > > from MBM to SRM. You can then use your incumbant Console Monitorings
 > software) > > via a terminal server if you so wish.t > >n >rK > No, you do not NEED to use the NAT box.  But if you want to save some $$$r onH > terminal servers and 9-pin adapters by using the capabilities that the engin J > eers built into the system.  Why not.?  I need to be able to sit at home (OrPJ > anywhere I can VPN through the Internet) and access the console ports on myH > Alphaservers for support purposes.  If you insist on walking into your dataF > center and connecting a serial cable.  So be it.  That's your style. >e  K >You can then use your incumbant Console Monitoring software via a terminalP server if you so wish.  L I have repasted above a line you snipped, you can clearly see I had put thatI you can then connect the serial port to a terminal server and use it witheI your existing Console Management solution. If it is existing, you are not % paying out for more terminal servers.   D Some people may not want to run one thing for there Marvel boxes andL something else for there other 100s of boxes, with the additional managementJ overhead of running two or more different solutions for console management of their servers.r  J So your point about walking into the data centre really is not relevant or what's at issue here.o  L > > > Note: All consoles for the Marvel line are Telnet sessions through the > SMC.  I And what is wrong is your initial statement above that seemed to indicateuK they do not have a regular serial console and you could only get on via the>K NAT box. I was just pointing out that you don't have to use it if you don'tn want to.   Alex   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2004 08:05:47 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o Subject: Re: EVE customizationsV3 Message-ID: <TJHWbKUT0rt$@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  d In article <mddu0ysoyra.fsf@panix5.panix.com>, Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> writes: > P > As is Emacs, which does not *force* any coding standards on anyone, but ratherQ > simply allows those who wish to, to use them.  It's just more easily programmed  > than EVE.n  ?    Please, if you can get emacs to consistently obey a C codinga(    standard other than gnu, tell us how.  H    Our emacs gurus have set up emacs to do C our way every way they knowK    how, and every time it eventually falls back to gnu style in the middle c    of editing a file.o  A    And, OBTW, it comes default configured to enable that bug wheno    editing C and C++ files.a  B    Which makes it a broken down code editor until someone shows us
    otherwise.a   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2004 08:06:37 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: EVE customizationsh3 Message-ID: <PcilsPGJxP$7@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  [ In article <cs9vfj7x7hq.fsf@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>, Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se> writes:   H > Otherwise I find you answer puzzling. I was asking about how to use anJ > editor for coding, so of course that was the fuctionallity I was after! 5 > (I wasn't talking about coding standards though...)   C    I get tired of fighting editors that do thingds to my text or myn    code.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 02:42:28 GMTa5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger)>S Subject: Re: HP World Magazine: For Business Continuity...the answer may be OpenVMShL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0905042245430001@user-uinj4lc.dialup.mindspring.com>  > In article <gpidnSCcstxYJgPdRVn-gQ@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:o  C >"Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspringdot.com> wrote in messagesG >news:rdeininger-0905041254060001@user-uinj4h4.dialup.mindspring.com...a >  >... >oD >> Intel seems to be launching improved Itanium CPUs every couple of >> quarters. >n3 >For unusually large values of a 'couple', perhaps.m > G >Merced was launched in May, 2001 (just in time to have a working - oneaL >hesitates to say 'running' - Itanic on the market before Alpha was killed). >-L >I don't recall any Itanic 'improvements' between then and early July, 2002,G >when McKinley was launched (at least nominally - availability prior touK >latish September of that year seemed to be somewhat questionable).  That'sgB >over 4 quarters (accepting the July launch date), not a 'couple'. >-M >Then it took almost exactly another full year (again, with no 'improvements'hC >that I can remember) until Madison was launched, on June 30, 2003.>  F Ok.  I'll take your historical dates at face value, since I don't have anyplace handy to look them up.a    J >And here we are nearly a full year later, and AFAIK that mid-2003 1.5 GHzJ >Madison is still the fastest Itanic on the block, though a few additional; >*lower*-performance variants have appeared in the interim.r  H I said "improved", not "faster".  Those interim variants are slower, butI they are also lower power, lower price -- enabling the low-profile rx1600mG and the cheaper versions of the rx2600.  I don't recall when these CPUs 1 first shipped.  Some time after Madison, I think.p     >Some marginallyF >faster (1.7 GHz or so) clock rates are rumored to be imminent, and/orJ >expansion of the on-chip cache to 9 MB (whether both will be available in >the same chip is not clear),   ) Yes, there are speed-ups in the pipeline.e  0 >but even if these relatively minor advances (atG >least compared with the progress from Merced to McKinley, or even with E >McKinley to Madison) appear immediately that still makes the average M >interval between Itanic 'improvements' a full year, rather than a 'couple ofl >quarters'.a >mE >And Montecito (the next projected significant Itanic revision) isn't M >scheduled to appear before some time in 2005, with Tukwila (the first *real*/L >redesign since McKinley, since McKinley, Madison, Madison II, and MontecitoG >all share the same basic core) reportedly planned for 2006 (or perhapsdK >2007), both of which appear to project that same schedule into the future.]H >So where you got your 'couple of quarters' figure for the rate at which@ >Itanic 'improves' is, to say the least, something of a mystery.  G New CPU families are farther apart, but within a family Intel is makinga6 incremental progress roughly a couple of times a year.     > VMS on low-end (can IsL >> say entry-level?) Itaniums like rx1600 will probably be cheap compared to" >> low-end AlphaServers like DS15. >tH >That's pretty much a matter of how HP chooses to price and position theG >various products, I suspect.  IIRC you could buy a DS10 VMS system for I >around $6K a few years ago, and hardware component prices have certainlya" >dropped significantly since then.  G The components used in a DS10 probably haven't gotten much cheaper, anddF DS15 is in the same ballpark.  I think $6-$7k is too expensive for VMS entry level.  E Obviously, HP has some flexibility in pricing.  But they can build annA rx1600 for far less than a DS15, so the only way to make the DS15aE price-competitive would be to sell it at a loss.  With similar profitcC margins on both systems, I think the rx1600 with VMS might sell forFI thousands less than DS15.  I guess we'll find out by the end of the year.d   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 02:47:12 GMTe- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>TY Subject: Re: HP World Magazine: For Business Continuity...the answer may be OpenVMS OpenV @ Message-ID: <d8ece8766feb0230d57ad42fe1bde30b@news.teranews.com>   Robert Deininger wrote: I > The components used in a DS10 probably haven't gotten much cheaper, and,H > DS15 is in the same ballpark.  I think $6-$7k is too expensive for VMS > entry level.  G > Obviously, HP has some flexibility in pricing.  But they can build and" > rx1600 for far less than a DS15,    K Ok, please explain why a DS10 would have to be more expensive to HP than anm itanium equivalent.r  J The problem with Alpha is that they are still priced at the upper limit ofT what rich customers will tolerate. The rest of the industry is priced competitively.  I I do not buy the argument that Alpha *systems* would be more expensive to  build than IA64.  R If at all, I would presume that IA64 systems are priced as loss leaders right now.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:11:11 +0100oO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> J Subject: Re: Intel is killing processors today, will itanium be axed too ?0 Message-ID: <c7nkfv$fmt$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   John Smith wrote:e= > "mist dragon" <mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com> wrote in messaget9 > news:7500353b.0405070507.6ab07187@posting.google.com...> > A >>P4 plans for various processors are being cancelled, rumours oft< >>reasons concern heat-dissipation and not for being 64 bit. >>C >>Itanium hasnt been doing well lately, will it be on the axe too ?t >  >  > L > If it is killed, it won't be for heat dissipation reasons. Death will come0 > due to the inability of the processor to sell. >  >   B However the reasons for cancelling the P4 processors are even more? compelling when applied to Itanium, the problem is that doing at8 much simpler dual core CPU instead isn't really possible
 with Itanium.    Regardsn Andrew HarrisonpJ > It all makes me wonder what 'contribution' the OpenVMS division is beingM > charged back internally at HP for Itanic development costs given that HP iseI > a 'partner' in Itanic in more ways than Dell is an Intel 'partner' thaty  > simply buys chips off the fab. > N > If the internal charge back is anything close to $100M annually, then from aJ > financial sense alone keeping Alpha development for EV8 and beyond wouldK > have seemed a bargain even if it cost $150M annually given the disruption L > and lack of trust in ChumHPaq the killing of Alpha engendered. What do youN > figure lost Alpha sales were worth over the past 3 years as a result of that	 > action?e >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2004 07:46:17 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)% Subject: Is ZIP on VMS a process hog?n= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0405100646.5fa2de6e@posting.google.com>   7 I notice a slowdown on our alpha when a vms zip file is-5 "unzipped" ... is anyone aware of a priority problem?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:32:40 +0100n- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>4) Subject: Re: Is ZIP on VMS a process hog? ) Message-ID: <2g9llqF8ddmU1@uni-berlin.de>w   Bob Ceculski wrote: 9 > I notice a slowdown on our alpha when a vms zip file is 7 > "unzipped" ... is anyone aware of a priority problem?d  4 Nice try, Andrew !  Clearly a troll from you, but we saw through it.'  ; You can't fool us, trying to claim that a VMS system slowedt< down (as perceived by another user) just because it had work to do.  Shame on you.   	 Roy Omondh Blue Bubble Ltd.   P.s. ;-)   P.p.s. *sigh*.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:00:41 +1000E1 From: David J McKenzie <david@mckenziefamily.biz> 5 Subject: Re: Newbie Queue Manager in cluster questioneC Message-ID: <409f52c3$0$74027$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>n   JF Mezei wrote:m  A > I have 2 nodes with separate system disks (node1 started off as $ > stand-alone in the 4.7 time frame) > 0 > On node1, I had START/QUEUE/MANAGER/ON=(NODE1) > F > on node2, I had DEFINE/SYSTEM QMAN$MASTER  directory spec of node1's  > sys$system START/QUEUE/MANAGER > ENABLE AUTOSTART > K > Node1 failed and rebooted. However, in the process, the TCPIP$SMTP queuesrK > on node2 stopped and didn't restart. Wishing to investigate, I noticed inA6 > the help that using /ON disables autostart features. > L > Should I just have a START/QUEUE/MANAGER without any added options on both	 > nodes ?nG > I can't remember why I added the /ON=(NODE1) only to node1's startup.   E and IRRC the queue manager files have to be common, that is on a disko" directlt accessable by both nodes. --  . David McKenzie  david@rugby.mckenziefamily.biz   remove rugby   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 07:19:48 -0400t* From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>5 Subject: Re: Newbie Queue Manager in cluster questionw; Message-ID: <jtJnc.101781$oN1.71153@bignews5.bellsouth.net>    JF Mezei wrote:f  * > OK, I can now better refine my question: > Z > the TCPIP$SMTP queues run on node2, and are "server" queues which do not have autostart.6 > The QMAN$MASTER file resides on node1's system disk. > T > When Node1 fails and restarts, TCPIP$SMTP queues on node2 remain in stopped state. > P > Node1 can't blindly restart them since node1 isn't sure of the status of node2I > (whether the TCPIP stack on NODE2 is up and running, if smtp service isl > enabled etc).w > M > Is there a very elegant way to ensure that the state (started/stopped) of auI > queue is restored once the queue manager is again granted access to itsf > database ? > G > Or must node1 submit a job to run on node2 and do whatever checks areyG > necessary to determine whether the queue should be restarted or not ?f    I Seeing that the logical name QMAN$MASTER is being used, you're using the  G massively revised queue manager that was implemented as something like 4I OpenVMS v6.x, right?  Doesn't that queue manager implemenation allow for cI multiple instances of the queue manager to be running, each with its own EM separate queue manager databases?  Maybe there is a need for a common set of eH files regardless of how many queue manager instances are running, but I J thought those instances were allowed to be 100% independent of each other G just because of situations like this.  Now I'll have to ferret out the eL specifics in the OpenVMS docs themselves to satisfy my own curiosity.  What L I was going to suggest, should this turn out to be true, is that you create I separate instances of the queue manager and assign certain queues to the pH their own instance that has its qman files located on node2.  I suppose B it'll take some reading to determine if that can actually be done.     -- y Chuck Choppa  8 ChuckChopp (at) rtfmcsi (dot) com http://www.rtfmcsi.com  @ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax Greer, SC  29651  , Do not send me unsolicited commercial email.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 07:10:57 GMT3- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>l5 Subject: Re: Newbie Queue Manager in cluster questions@ Message-ID: <b307c37cd26e104a14247ef54d6285c3@news.teranews.com>  ( OK, I can now better refine my question:  X the TCPIP$SMTP queues run on node2, and are "server" queues which do not have autostart.4 The QMAN$MASTER file resides on node1's system disk.  R When Node1 fails and restarts, TCPIP$SMTP queues on node2 remain in stopped state.  N Node1 can't blindly restart them since node1 isn't sure of the status of node2G (whether the TCPIP stack on NODE2 is up and running, if smtp service isA
 enabled etc).e  K Is there a very elegant way to ensure that the state (started/stopped) of a1G queue is restored once the queue manager is again granted access to itsD
 database ?  E Or must node1 submit a job to run on node2 and do whatever checks are-E necessary to determine whether the queue should be restarted or not ?.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2004 06:13:22 -0700. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)5 Subject: OpenVMS Marketshare x Products Consolidationu= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0405100513.3c22f593@posting.google.com>o   So,>  / How about consolidating some OpenVMS products ?c< Checkin the web I discovered a lot of similar products like - schedulers, session control, defrags, etc ...   9 I think these companies should consolidate their products>? under one brand name. Like a Support Products Suite or similar.A< May be HP would masterize a CD with these products with the = possibility of key activation on demand. And send it with thea new systems (Itanium) !    What do u think about ?    Regardss   FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:27:44 -0400 * From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>9 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Marketshare x Products Consolidatione; Message-ID: <YZNnc.102125$oN1.57175@bignews5.bellsouth.net>    Fabio Cardoso wrote:   > So,a > 1 > How about consolidating some OpenVMS products ?v> > Checkin the web I discovered a lot of similar products like / > schedulers, session control, defrags, etc ...i > ; > I think these companies should consolidate their productsnA > under one brand name. Like a Support Products Suite or similar.X> > May be HP would masterize a CD with these products with the ? > possibility of key activation on demand. And send it with them > new systems (Itanium) !     J IIRC, the OpenVMS 3rd party layered product market went through a massive F amount of consolidation over the past 5 to 7 years.  Don't Networking K Dynamics, Executive Sofware and Computer Associates pretty much own all of O those products now?D     -- e Chuck Chopp3  8 ChuckChopp (at) rtfmcsi (dot) com http://www.rtfmcsi.com  @ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax Greer, SC  29651  , Do not send me unsolicited commercial email.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:43:04 +0000 (UTC)o= From: jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818)t# Subject: Re: pine or related on VMS-. Message-ID: <c7o4do$1eek$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>  n In article <20040507184307.25300.00000713@mb-m22.aol.com>, schroedingerzkat@aol.com (SchroedingerzKat) writes:O >I tried to setup pine on vms shell account.  It works fine for receive, but on7L >transmit it is looking for an SMTP or sendmail.  Of course, sendmail is not@ >there like on a Unix system.  Any tips on getting this working? >tP >I've tried the "mail" program, but it's a tad difficult to follow threads, etc. >tO >FWIW, I tried to RTFM today.  I went to the college library and found a coupledO >of VMS texts.  Unfortunately they are outdated, however they have good tips on O >shell accounts.  However, the library computers were down and I couldn't checktP >the books out.  Maybe they got hit with Sasser, I dunno.  They should have used
 >VMS.  <g> >a >Michael  N First, VMS is not designed for non-systems engineers to be creating/installingM programs like this.   Programs like this usually need to be INSTALLED to work I properly, to have access to the correct APIs and privileges to operate asnL needed on certain files (e.g., users' MAIL.MAI files are PROTECTED files andT can't be deleted by the owner) and INSTALLING something requires privilges on VMS.    L Second, if you're looking for an implementation of PINE for VMS, try the oneN that's part of PMDF from Process Software.  While I find PINE as difficult andN unnatural/unintuitive use as I find VI, supposedly the port included with PMDFF (IF it's still included?) LOOKS and ACTS like the PINE most PINE users understand and use.-  P +----"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+B | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")		InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu < | Systems Design Specialist - Lead	AT&T:      (814) 865-18189 | Digital Library Technologies		FAX:       (814) 863-3560s2 | 3 Paterno Library				"I'd rather be dancing..." B | Penn State University		    A host is a host from coast to coast,K | University Park, PA 16802	    And no one will talk to a host that's closelC | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>	    Unless the host that isn't closei: | EMail Professional since 1978	    Is busy, hung or dead.P +---------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+9                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999] 3 <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a> 0J <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a> --	/"\ 	\ /	ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN 	 X	AGAINST HTML MAIL+ 	/ \   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:50:30 +0200c* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>? Subject: Re: problem with installation from layered-products CDh* Message-ID: <2g8qi8F5jr9tU1@uni-berlin.de>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: F > In article <c7lkq5$885$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de5 > (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: n >  > K >>I am trying to install DECwindows 1.2-6 on a system with 1.2-5 current.  yF >>The CD is in a drive on another node in the cluster.  After PRODUCT F >>INSTALL asks me if I want to continue, the process just hangs.  The G >>current image is TYPE, and SHOW PROCESS/CONTINUOUS shows no progress.  >>" >>The CD drive seems OK otherwise. >>@ >>Even if there is some problem---which I guess there is at someF >>level---then I wouldn't expect it to occur when TYPE is the current  >>image. >  > C > I've successfully installed other products from that CD, but not rG > DECwindows since the other VAX node in the cluster (the one with the  H > physical connection to the drive) already has 1.2-6 (installed during   > the install of VMS 7.3 on it). >   G Can you copy the kit from the CD to a local disk, and install from the .G copy? If the copy barfs/hangs, then you know it's a bad area of the CD. I If installing from the local copy hangs at the same place, then you have   eliminated the CD as a problem.n   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2004 05:40:48 -0700% From: tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams)k1 Subject: Re: Queuing a file to print from FORTRAN = Message-ID: <ea44f5a1.0405100440.43210733@posting.google.com>n  h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<efp+NHa5CRXH@eisner.encompasserve.org>...f > In article <ea44f5a1.0405071201.96b7bec@posting.google.com>, tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) writes: > ? > > I know that I could just set the disposition of the file tor > > PRINT/DELETE andJ > > print to SYS$PRINT queue.  But I would like to have the application be > > asI > > flexible as it is now.  As of now, changing to a different printer is-J > > just a matter of changing a logical name, so I don't know if I want toC > > lock into SYS$PRINT queue.  Changing the SYS$PRINT queue deviced, > > effects more than just this application. > B > Have you considered setting the user mode logical name SYS$PRINT > from within the application ?m  F Would that actually work?  SYS$PRINT is queue name.  I see no evidence; that I can use it like a logical name and just reassign it.e   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2004 08:11:53 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t1 Subject: Re: Queuing a file to print from FORTRAN 3 Message-ID: <1$pYIoUTtbeR@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  e In article <ea44f5a1.0405100440.43210733@posting.google.com>, tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) writes:_j > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<efp+NHa5CRXH@eisner.encompasserve.org>...g >> In article <ea44f5a1.0405071201.96b7bec@posting.google.com>, tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) writes:c >> /@ >> > I know that I could just set the disposition of the file to >> > PRINT/DELETE andtK >> > print to SYS$PRINT queue.  But I would like to have the application be- >> > as J >> > flexible as it is now.  As of now, changing to a different printer isK >> > just a matter of changing a logical name, so I don't know if I want to-D >> > lock into SYS$PRINT queue.  Changing the SYS$PRINT queue device- >> > effects more than just this application.a >>  C >> Have you considered setting the user mode logical name SYS$PRINT6  >> from within the application ? > H > Would that actually work?  SYS$PRINT is queue name.  I see no evidence= > that I can use it like a logical name and just reassign it.    It works just from from DCL.  E I often have no queue named SYS$PRINT, and the logical name SYS$PRINTt is essential in that case.  ; VMS honors logical names in many places where it is useful.y   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:36:26 +0200i* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>1 Subject: Re: Queuing a file to print from FORTRANr) Message-ID: <2g9eqsF2ohaU1@uni-berlin.de>g   Tom Adams wrote:j > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<efp+NHa5CRXH@eisner.encompasserve.org>... > f >>In article <ea44f5a1.0405071201.96b7bec@posting.google.com>, tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) writes: >> >>> >>>I know that I could just set the disposition of the file to >>>PRINT/DELETE and I >>>print to SYS$PRINT queue.  But I would like to have the application be  >>>as H >>>flexible as it is now.  As of now, changing to a different printer isI >>>just a matter of changing a logical name, so I don't know if I want tofB >>>lock into SYS$PRINT queue.  Changing the SYS$PRINT queue device+ >>>effects more than just this application.F >>B >>Have you considered setting the user mode logical name SYS$PRINT >>from within the application ?  >  > H > Would that actually work?  SYS$PRINT is queue name.  I see no evidence= > that I can use it like a logical name and just reassign it.-  I Yes logical names do work fro SYS$PRINT. It's perfectly possible to have r@ a system wide logical for a central printer, group logicals for I departments and process or user-mode logicals for a user or application. e all co-existing happily.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:06:46 -0400o" From: "BillC" <bclark_at_lrgh.org>& Subject: Reserved TCP/IP Port Numbers?2 Message-ID: <wrudnYfuwrE0KwLdRVn-jA@metrocast.net>  = am trying to configure an interface between two Alpha systems C and am not successful in selecting ports to assign to the messages.r= i understand certain port numbers are reserved (TELNET, etc.)i9 but am wondering if a full list of reserved ports exists.o thanks in advance.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:51:36 -0400 # From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>e* Subject: RE: Reserved TCP/IP Port Numbers?: Message-ID: <003901c436b7$715f90e0$4a3b0681@sdct.nist.gov>   > -----Original Message-----> > From: BillC [mailto:bclark_at_lrgh.org@loggerhead.nist.gov] $ > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 1:07 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ( > Subject: Reserved TCP/IP Port Numbers? >  > @ > am trying to configure an interface between two Alpha systems < > and am not successful in selecting ports to assign to the ; > messages. i understand certain port numbers are reserved I= > (TELNET, etc.) but am wondering if a full list of reserved  " > ports exists. thanks in advance.  , You should be able to find what you want at:   	http://www.iana.org   HTH,   Dan  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2004 07:51:39 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)y% Subject: Re: RRD46 tray won't stay ina3 Message-ID: <sqTuCoqBceM$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <2g3r83F3t8oaU1@uni-berlin.de>, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:i > 9 > And we're back at the McDonald's coffee story again :-)e >   2    Nope, all my Alphas drink Starbucks or Folgers.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 02:39:43 GMTs- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> $ Subject: Suggestion for TYPE command@ Message-ID: <50d5a0dbecb5c0f47a72ec86b36277ea@news.teranews.com>  : One should be able to specify a maximum width for display.  M for instance, TYPE/WIDTH=50 myfile.dat  would only display the first 50 bytese0 of each record (or less if records are shorter).  L Useful to type files with record lengths greater than 80 while keeping it atK one line per record since the terminal would not have to wrap longer lines.O   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:40:20 +0200-9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>M( Subject: Re: Suggestion for TYPE command' Message-ID: <409F3FF4.2BE019D8@aaa.com>   ) Or simply make the /NOWRAP switch to workc  without the /PAGE=SAVE switch...  	 Jan-Erik.a   JF Mezei wrote:> > < > One should be able to specify a maximum width for display. > O > for instance, TYPE/WIDTH=50 myfile.dat  would only display the first 50 bytesc2 > of each record (or less if records are shorter). > N > Useful to type files with record lengths greater than 80 while keeping it atM > one line per record since the terminal would not have to wrap longer lines.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2004 05:42:58 -0700. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)( Subject: Re: Suggestion for TYPE command= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0405100442.38743ab7@posting.google.com>   u JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<50d5a0dbecb5c0f47a72ec86b36277ea@news.teranews.com>... < > One should be able to specify a maximum width for display. > O > for instance, TYPE/WIDTH=50 myfile.dat  would only display the first 50 bytese2 > of each record (or less if records are shorter). > N > Useful to type files with record lengths greater than 80 while keeping it atM > one line per record since the terminal would not have to wrap longer lines.   G Instead of these kinds of suggestions, why not HP open the DCL programsnD fonts for specific commands ? So you can adapt in your way of use !    Regardsy   FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:38:23 -0400l< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>( Subject: Re: Suggestion for TYPE command) Message-ID: <2g9lvhF898cU1@uni-berlin.de>S   JF Mezei wrote:u >...F > for instance, TYPE/WIDTH=50 myfile.dat  would only display the first; > 50 bytes of each record (or less if records are shorter).  >...   I was going to suggest;d $ set term/width=50/page=255 $ type/page=save filenameo  ( But that got really messy, in fact just;, $ set term/width=71 ! or any number below 71 $ type/page=save filenamen  1 is enough to do really weird things on VMS 7.3-1.     But this one does what you want;  C $ merge/stable/nocheck sys$manager:operator.log tt:/spec=sys$input:c( /field=(name=first50,position=1,size=50)
 /data=first50W   -- ? Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.e Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXe www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:30:30 +0100iO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>l) Subject: Re: Trip down [core] memory lanee0 Message-ID: <c7np4n$hg3$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Dr. Dweeb wrote: > Andrew Harrison wrote: >  >>Karsten Nyblad wrote:c >>A >>>"Andrew Harrison" <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in<4 >>>message news:c7frse$tl$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >>>1 >>>i >>>>GreyCloud wrote: >>>> >>>>G >>>>>Is Sun in trouble now that they had to forge an alliance with M$??s >>>>< >>>>Have you forgotten that you lost that argument days ago. >>>t >>>mG >>>Andrew, You never answered the question:  What did Sun buy from SCO? A >>>I hope you realize that SCO is seen as a bunch of leeches, andl> >>>buying anything from them is seen as close to either paying9 >>>blackmailers or using blackmailers for personal gains.a >>>  >> >>IP >>A >>Sun has a UNIX platform that runs on x86 (Solaris x86), a major : >>deficiency of the OS was the lack of x86 device drivers. >>A >>SCO has a UNIX platform that runs on x86 which had a much wider, >>range of device drivers. >>: >>Solaris x86 now has a much more complete set of drivers. >>A >>Sun signed the deal before SCO launched their case against IBM, > >>though it would be foolish to claim that Sun didn't have any@ >>idea that SCO would be pursuing or attempting to pursue peopleB >>who they suspected of appropriating their IP, that was after all@ >>the mandate of SCO Source which had been in existence for some; >>time and which was only following the path or Intergraph.o >>> >>Ironically IBM, HP, SGI all continue to fund SCO they ave to> >>because of their UNIX licenses, HP have even conducted joint< >>marketing excercises with SCO since the case was launched. >>@ >>I say ironically because apart from the IP purchase Sun is the> >>only major vendor who doesn't have a commercial relationship >>with SCO.s >> >> >  > M > That is an answer Andrew.  I may have missed it if you posted these detailsn
 > previously.E > 7 > But what a bizarre set of realities it reveals, not ?e >   @ Of course, the OpenSource community is riddled with these little "realities".   Regards  Andrew Harrisonx   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2004 08:00:16 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)M' Subject: Re: VMS mentioned in the presst3 Message-ID: <6I8j$HhfpGAI@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  h In article <c7gf7h$kar$1@news.wplus.net>, "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> writes: > N > They can not however buy the box without an OS or "with a prerelease version > of OpenVMS 8.1." >   H    For most customers, if they can put it on the purchase order, that is
    "with".   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2004 02:05:39 -07002 From: mcaccavone@manfinancial.com (Mark Caccavone)0 Subject: VMS Postscript Printing - Forms Overlay= Message-ID: <c667babc.0405100105.1d5e8288@posting.google.com>r  C We want to setup a Print Module in Postscript that sends an OVERLAYoC containing the Company Logo , address , disclaimers etc etc to a HPe( Postscript printer along with ansi text.  > I understand that I can create a WORD document and capture theC Postscript by printing to a file. The POSTSCRIPT output then  needsoB editing and inserting as a module into a library with the relevant form and setup defined.b  s  D Problem is how do I manipulate the postscript file so I can enter itF into a print device control library to ensure that when I send an ansiB text document to print that I have a nice pretty overlay - and the ANSI TEXT in the middle.   Do I need to install DCPS?   Any help appreciated.e     Mark Caccavone VMS Supporte MAN Financial Ltds   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:18:54 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG4 Subject: Re: VMS Postscript Printing - Forms Overlay0 Message-ID: <00A319DF.2B53F66F@SendSpamHere.ORG>  r In article <c667babc.0405100105.1d5e8288@posting.google.com>, mcaccavone@manfinancial.com (Mark Caccavone) writes:D >We want to setup a Print Module in Postscript that sends an OVERLAYD >containing the Company Logo , address , disclaimers etc etc to a HP) >Postscript printer along with ansi text.o >.? >I understand that I can create a WORD document and capture theoD >Postscript by printing to a file. The POSTSCRIPT output then  needsC >editing and inserting as a module into a library with the relevant  >form and setup defined.  G I've seen PostScript generated by M$ WeiRD... ugly.  Knock yourself outn editting it.  n  E >Problem is how do I manipulate the postscript file so I can enter iteG >into a print device control library to ensure that when I send an ansi C >text document to print that I have a nice pretty overlay - and thei >ANSI TEXT in the middle.m >d >Do I need to install DCPS?h  D Install DCPS, put the FORM in a setup library and define a form that3 makes reference to the PS module in said library.  e   -- -B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.R -- EK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMa            j5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" a   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:56:14 GMTg- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>f4 Subject: Re: VMS Postscript Printing - Forms Overlay@ Message-ID: <40fa69097c24eb6f9f19c6ec2ffb0a1e@news.teranews.com>   Mark Caccavone wrote:aE > We want to setup a Print Module in Postscript that sends an OVERLAY-E > containing the Company Logo , address , disclaimers etc etc to a HPd* > Postscript printer along with ansi text.  N You put the word "overlay" in uppercase.  Are you absolutely sure this is what4 you want ? Forms are generally wanted as "underlay".    @ > I understand that I can create a WORD document and capture the# > Postscript by printing to a file.e  N You *can* but you don't want to. You are much better off using a real graphicsN program that generates real postscript (Illustrator, Freehand etc). Even thoseK tend to generate fairly ugly postscript, but it is far more usable than thea, junk produced by miscrosoft printer drivers.  K The "official" way to do it is to generate an EPS file, and then precede it L with the commands that set the current position, orientation and scaling and reset it after the EPS file.  N However, you need to define whether you need this on a per-page basis, or just the first page of a job.  G If this is to execute multiple times, you also need to consider images.oL Normally, you'd include the image data each time the image is needed. ImagesN are generally read in the moral equivalent of SYS$INPUT in a batch job in VMS.I However, there is a big difference in that once read, the postscript datanL disapears, unlike VMS where a goto back to the top causes the same stream of" data to be reread/available again.  J So, if you need the same image multiple times, you must either include theN raster data each time the image is neeeded, or first read the image data in anM array, and then use that as a re-usable source of data for the image operator  whenever needed.  L Very few (if any) graphics programs allow you to do this out of the box. YouK need to generate a "default" postscript which will give you the raster datasM and all necessary parameters for the image operator, and then modify the codee according to your needs.  F > Problem is how do I manipulate the postscript file so I can enter itH > into a print device control library to ensure that when I send an ansiD > text document to print that I have a nice pretty overlay - and the > ANSI TEXT in the middle.  N Properly generated postscript is a text file which can be manipulated with anyJ editor and this insuerted in the print libraries as any text modules. NoteJ that in generating the postscript, most serious postscript applications doJ provide the ability to generate ascii or binary postscript (this refers to image data).  K Another important question to ask is whether your "ANSI TEXT" contains just K normal regular text, or of it contains various ansi escape sequences to geti( bold, underline, cursor positioning etc.  N If it is just raw text, it then becomes fairly easy to write/find a postscriptM routine which just reads text from its "sys$input" and puts it on a page, and J after X lines, spits the page out and starts at top of next page. With youG controlling this, it then becomes easier for you to generate the "form"a between pages.     > Do I need to install DCPS?  H "need", perhaps not. The question is whether you want it or not. And youH probably want it. DCPS will translate text documents on the fly, and canL handle library headers etc. Its main advantage oevr a do-it-yourself is thatE it handles ansi escape sequences properly (including sixel graphics).t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:25:19 +0100 ) From: Tony Arnold <tony.arnold@man.ac.uk>v Subject: XDMP and TCPIP 5.4i- Message-ID: <c7nvs0$2hpp$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>D  G I've just upgraded ny Compaq XP-1000 systen to OpenVMS 7.3-2 and TCPIP k< 5.4. XDMP used to work fine, but now it has stopped working.  D I can make the intitial XDMP connection and I get the login window, I however after logging in, something sets the security so on the X server pD so that no client can talk to it including the system I just logged 8 into. I just get the hour glass cursor and nothing else.  G For information, the X server end is Cygwin's X11 distribution running rG on Windows XP, however, this works perfectly on a 7.3-1/5.3 VMS system.M   Any ideas anyone?f   Tony.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:35:59 +0200., From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl> Subject: Re: XDMP and TCPIP 5.40) Message-ID: <2g9t05Fc9knU1@uni-berlin.de>o  8 "Tony Arnold" <tony.arnold@man.ac.uk> schreef in bericht' news:c7nvs0$2hpp$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk...mH > I've just upgraded ny Compaq XP-1000 systen to OpenVMS 7.3-2 and TCPIP> > 5.4. XDMP used to work fine, but now it has stopped working. >aE > I can make the intitial XDMP connection and I get the login window,1J > however after logging in, something sets the security so on the X serverE > so that no client can talk to it including the system I just loggedf: > into. I just get the hour glass cursor and nothing else. >sH > For information, the X server end is Cygwin's X11 distribution runningI > on Windows XP, however, this works perfectly on a 7.3-1/5.3 VMS system.t >  > Any ideas anyone?e >s > Tony.d  I IIRC there must be a file called ACCESS.TXT in sys$specific:[tcpip$xdmp].:+ Has it been overwritten or replaced by 5.4?s Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:30:06 +0200r* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised* Message-ID: <2g8ssjF5lk9eU1@uni-berlin.de>   John Smith wrote:wM > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message 2 > news:409EC14F.9C02D0B5@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net... >  >>John Smith wrote:n >>	 >>>[snip]dG >>>Finally as to issue #3, there's enough talent in c.o.v., experienced  >  > enough > K >>>on VMS, unix, linux, and Windows, to be able to whip together a 4 volumep >  > setn > G >>>of books/on-line guides to help make the case that VMS isn't 'hard'.  >>>eF >>>Vol. 1 - OpenVMS for Executives - why purchasing anything else is a >  > career >  >>>limiting move >>H >>Plenty of ammunition available in today's trade media. Viruses, worms,I >>trojans, all proliferating at corporate America's expense. That doesn'ta+ >>begin to mention blue screens and such...g >> >>$ >>>Vol 2. - OpenVMS for Unix Weenies >>$ >>Religious war, but worth fighting. >> >># >>>Vol. 3 - OpenVMS for Billy-goatsn >>A >>Same deal, but also worth fighting. Reminders that DEC inventediC >>clustering long before Bill Gates even heard the word might prove  >>convincing - dunno...e >> >>I >>>Vol. 4 - OpenVMS for Serious Production Environments - The How-To Bookt >  > Basedn > < >>>on Real-World Implementations of All Sizes and Complexity >>I >>I'm sure almost everyone here could contribute some anecdotal evidence.oH >>"Sanitizing" it for publication will be the challenge. Experience withG >>this group has shown that no matter how "sanitary" the text may seem,nH >>someone will always claim that conclusions can be drawn that lead backF >>to the obfuscated source. We'll just have to get over that, I guess. >> >>* >>>Time to belly-up to the bar, gentlemen. >>J >>If no else does it first, the format of the documentation I produce willE >>become the standard. If you don't like that, get there before I do.o >  >  > K > Much as I hate to say it, .pdf is where it's at for the non-VMS world outd > there. >   F Very true and we don't all need the latest version of Word to read it.  G Mac OS X takes this further, with "Save as PDF" being an option in the  C standard print dialog, and opening a Postscript file automatically t converts it to PDF.u  G There's a newsgroup discussion which covers some of the PDF aspects of   the OS X printing system atk   http://tinyurl.com/29elv  J "> I'm trying to make heads or tails of all this print technology in OS X.  H MacOS X prefers PDF as high-level format for both on-screen and on-paper representation.z  D So they decided to built their printing system around PDF as centralH component (and not around PostScript like it's normally done on Unices)"   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 21:33:40 -0500d@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised5 Message-ID: <409EEA04.E68B483@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>1   Alex Daniels wrote:Q > M > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in messagep2 > news:409EC14F.9C02D0B5@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net...
 > > [snip]L > > If no else does it first, the format of the documentation I produce willG > > become the standard. If you don't like that, get there before I do.t
 > > <SNIP> > % > Is it going to be in RUNOFF format?e  ' Probably not. Plain text, most likely. n   K.I.S.S.   --   David J. Dachteram dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/b   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 21:49:30 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised, Message-ID: <R8SdnTBcmbz4bwPdRVn-hw@igs.net>  K "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in messageo0 news:409EC14F.9C02D0B5@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net... > John Smith wrote:P
 > > [snip]H > > Finally as to issue #3, there's enough talent in c.o.v., experienced enoughL > > on VMS, unix, linux, and Windows, to be able to whip together a 4 volume setTH > > of books/on-line guides to help make the case that VMS isn't 'hard'. > >hG > > Vol. 1 - OpenVMS for Executives - why purchasing anything else is aa career > > limiting moven >iH > Plenty of ammunition available in today's trade media. Viruses, worms,I > trojans, all proliferating at corporate America's expense. That doesn'te+ > begin to mention blue screens and such...f > % > > Vol 2. - OpenVMS for Unix Weeniesa >b$ > Religious war, but worth fighting. >r$ > > Vol. 3 - OpenVMS for Billy-goats >qA > Same deal, but also worth fighting. Reminders that DEC inventedeC > clustering long before Bill Gates even heard the word might proveu > convincing - dunno...e >dJ > > Vol. 4 - OpenVMS for Serious Production Environments - The How-To Book Basedn= > > on Real-World Implementations of All Sizes and Complexityn >,I > I'm sure almost everyone here could contribute some anecdotal evidence.eH > "Sanitizing" it for publication will be the challenge. Experience withG > this group has shown that no matter how "sanitary" the text may seem, H > someone will always claim that conclusions can be drawn that lead backF > to the obfuscated source. We'll just have to get over that, I guess. >i+ > > Time to belly-up to the bar, gentlemen.s >eJ > If no else does it first, the format of the documentation I produce willE > become the standard. If you don't like that, get there before I do.t    I Much as I hate to say it, .pdf is where it's at for the non-VMS world outd there.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:02:07 +0100pO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised0 Message-ID: <c7njuv$flg$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:n > In article <c7i93t$p13$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> writes: > , >>Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:M >>>Advertising is expensive.  While it might be possible to persuade some of .M >>>what few  ISVs and resellers are still thoroughly committed to VMS to kicknG >>>in for some ads, there aren't a lot of other deep pockets out there.S >>>i >>< >>Getting your top VP's to include lavish details on OpenVMS7 >>in their strategy presentations is not expensive, how  >>about starting there.r >  > H > Not sure whether you're just sniping or trying to make a constructive M > suggestion.  However, the point is that whatever we've been doing so far -  I > which certainly includes heroic efforts from various users - hasn't so o$ > far produced satisfactory results. >    I wasn't sniping.a  B However it does illustrate the futility of asking HP to spend more money on advertising OpenVMS.i  B If you cannot get HP execs to reliably report to the world that HPB does have this product called OpenVMS, that it is committed to theD product and that is it is good etc etc, which costs the exec nothingF except a modest amount of time, then you are extremely unlikely to get+ them to spend money on advertising OpenVMS.o  D It would seem to me that the OpenVMS community is on its own on thisB one, unless you accept what this and move on you will always be inH a state of dissapointed anticipation. Tiny flurries of OpenVMS marketingF activity (which is all it ever is) followed by raised expectations andE then dissapointment as it becomes apparent that the status quo hasn'td in fact changed.     Regardse Andrew Harrisonm   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:22:40 +0200-  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised- Message-ID: <c7ns6e$16o5$1@news.cybercity.dk>o  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:, > Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:C >> In article <c7i93t$p13$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew HarrisonS. >> <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> writes: >>. >>> Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:F >>>> Advertising is expensive.  While it might be possible to persuade> >>>> some of what few  ISVs and resellers are still thoroughlyD >>>> committed to VMS to kick in for some ads, there aren't a lot of" >>>> other deep pockets out there. >>>> >>>t> >>> Getting your top VP's to include lavish details on OpenVMS9 >>> in their strategy presentations is not expensive, hown >>> about starting there.t >> >>H >> Not sure whether you're just sniping or trying to make a constructiveG >> suggestion.  However, the point is that whatever we've been doing soc >> far -F >> which certainly includes heroic efforts from various users - hasn't >> soc% >> far produced satisfactory results.  >> >  > I wasn't sniping.l >0D > However it does illustrate the futility of asking HP to spend more > money on advertising OpenVMS.c > D > If you cannot get HP execs to reliably report to the world that HPD > does have this product called OpenVMS, that it is committed to theF > product and that is it is good etc etc, which costs the exec nothingH > except a modest amount of time, then you are extremely unlikely to get- > them to spend money on advertising OpenVMS.d >eF > It would seem to me that the OpenVMS community is on its own on thisD > one, unless you accept what this and move on you will always be in@ > a state of dissapointed anticipation. Tiny flurries of OpenVMSA > marketing activity (which is all it ever is) followed by raisedmF > expectations and then dissapointment as it becomes apparent that the$ > status quo hasn't in fact changed. >a   Sad, but true.   Dweeb  > 	 > Regardso > Andrew Harrisono   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:00:27 GMTl- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>t2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised@ Message-ID: <5d86b7d967e4d23ec77f4cf6192dd50c@news.teranews.com>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:D > If you cannot get HP execs to reliably report to the world that HPD > does have this product called OpenVMS, that it is committed to theF > product and that is it is good etc etc, which costs the exec nothingH > except a modest amount of time, then you are extremely unlikely to get- > them to spend money on advertising OpenVMS.i  - I am affraid to say that I agree with Andrew.n  J > a state of dissapointed anticipation. Tiny flurries of OpenVMS marketingH > activity (which is all it ever is) followed by raised expectations andG > then dissapointment as it becomes apparent that the status quo hasn'tu > in fact changed.  8 I am extremely saddened to say that I agree with Andrew.    K I disagree that efforts are futile. If we can convince carly&co that VMS is.M strategic asset that needs marketing and shows great potential and would givenI HP a product that woudl give HP a real edge over competitors, then thingssG would fall into place and HP would want to market VMS and make it grow.n  E The challenge in in getting Carly&co to change their minds about VMS.,   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:57:50 +0200s* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>5 Subject: Re: [OT] An interesting view of Linux's coste) Message-ID: <2g991vF3559U1@uni-berlin.de>-   Hans Vlems wrote: ; > "Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> schreef in bericht 5 > news:c687mi$8pn7e$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de...=   [snip]   >>F >>I believe you, but the point Hans and I are making is that there areI >>still pitfalls, upgrades can break stuff, and if we as IT professionalsGA >>find it hard work, what chance do Joe and Jane Home User stand?o >> > J > Glad you brought that up again Paul, because that's exactly the issue weP > were discussing. It is quite possible to install a product on a linux platform@ > and get it up and running. The two points we were making were: > E > 1-It is yet quite another thing to keep it running after an upgradee7 > 2-Can a person untrained in IT lore do the same thing  > J > The conclusion is that a linux o/s upgrade is not upwards compatible and< > that you need some knowledge about the os to make it work. >   I I know we have already thrashed this one out, but here's an article by a   seasoned Linux user:  # "The Truth About the Linux Desktop"o  7 http://www.tyma.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=19>  1 and he's pretty disparaging about OpenSource too:r  & "Why does Open Source Software Exist?"  7 http://www.tyma.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=20    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:09:48 +0200E* From: "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com>5 Subject: Re: [OT] An interesting view of Linux's costd- Message-ID: <c7o2fh$1d3j$1@news.cybercity.dk>h  7 "Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in messageo# news:2g991vF3559U1@uni-berlin.de...  > Hans Vlems wrote:t= > > "Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> schreef in bericht 7 > > news:c687mi$8pn7e$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de..., >e > [snip] >  > >>H > >>I believe you, but the point Hans and I are making is that there areK > >>still pitfalls, upgrades can break stuff, and if we as IT professionalsQC > >>find it hard work, what chance do Joe and Jane Home User stand?0 > >> > >oL > > Glad you brought that up again Paul, because that's exactly the issue weI > > were discussing. It is quite possible to install a product on a linux0 platformB > > and get it up and running. The two points we were making were: > > G > > 1-It is yet quite another thing to keep it running after an upgrade/9 > > 2-Can a person untrained in IT lore do the same thing  > >vL > > The conclusion is that a linux o/s upgrade is not upwards compatible and> > > that you need some knowledge about the os to make it work. > >a > J > I know we have already thrashed this one out, but here's an article by a > seasoned Linux user: > % > "The Truth About the Linux Desktop". > 9 > http://www.tyma.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=19S >P3 > and he's pretty disparaging about OpenSource too:a >a( > "Why does Open Source Software Exist?" > 9 > http://www.tyma.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=20a  L These articles really show how some journalist are trolling when they do notF have anything to write.  In particularly the second article is writtenL without checking research on the subject.  It is well-known that the typicalK open source writer is middle-aged, e.g., in his thirties or forties.  It isaE also well-known that people are writing open source software for manylK reasons.  Examples:  1) People may write software to get new qualification,rE either to get a job, get a better job, or to stay qualified for their.L current job.  2) People may write software because they think it is funny toL write.  3) Some write it because they are paid, e.g., employees at IBM, SUN,H Redhat, SUSE, etc.  4) Yes, some may write it because they want their 15- minutes of fame, and what is wrong with that.n  G Yes, you can get money for write software, but if you can get money for J writing compiler, database systems, drivers, kernels, or any other sort ofJ code that is actually fun to write then you are one of the lucky few.  WhyH are people painting pictures for their leisure when they could get moneyI painting other peoples houses?  Why are people working for charities whene they could work for money?  L When people work for free they usually do it for many reasons and no one canL say that on reasons is better or more honorable than another.  Simply acceptI that people are working for free for the benefit of mankind, whether theytF work for charity or open source.  The subject on why people write openJ source software really is not that important.  The important thing is thatH there will continue to be a large body of people doing it.  That ensuresJ that if you chose an open source solution then it will also be maintained.  K About the first article.  Yes, you may have to work some more when you haveaK a Linux desktop.  However, I think there are not that many that think Linux)H on the desktop is competitive unless you have many people doing the sameH task.  There is a reason why Redhat's new desktop license is not sold inJ quantities less than 50.  People are starting to chance to Linux when theyL have hundreds of using their desktop for the same task.  Then you can make aK business case, because your saving on licenses are in thousands of dollars.h  K Second, you cannot say anything about stability of an operating system fromaD one user.  He may have an usual combination of hardware, he may haveH configured his laptop in a wrong way, or he may use his laptop for usualI tasks.  Please remember that there has also been VMS users whose machines  crashes once a week.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:08:13 +0100eO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> : Subject: Re: [OT] HP ,Post-Compaq, Looks Like Its Old Self0 Message-ID: <c7nuru$jha$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   John Smith wrote: N > http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB108387792199004351,00.html?mod=home_compa	 > ny_news/ >   H Looks like the WSJ agrees with the point I have been making for the last year.n    E I like the idea that the market cap of the HP printing division wouldl3 be higher than the market cap of the whole company.d  B Now what was HP boards strategy for delivering shareholder value ?  @ Looks like the WSJ thinks that Walter Hewlett was right. Not badA for a mere musician or whatever he got called in the war of words  over the merger.   regardsi Andrew Harrison:     >  > Copy Machine: H-P, > Post-Compaq, Looks > Like Its Old Self3 > By PUI-WING TAM>+ > Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNALl > May 7, 2004; Page C1 > L > Hewlett-Packard Co.'s acquisition of Compaq Computer Corp. was designed toM > significantly remake H-P. But on the second anniversary of the biggest-evercK > technology merger deal, the new H-P isn't looking all that different froms? > the old one -- and that isn't necessarily good for investors.n > G > Prior to the $19 billion deal's May 2002 close, Hewlett-Packard was atI > diversified technology concern with mediocre computing businesses and a I > red-hot printer unit that generated the bulk of its profit and revenue. K > Today, that profile hasn't substantially changed. Even as H-P's computingmI > businesses continue to struggle for sustained growth, its printing unit6L > remains its greatest strength, contributing about 30% of quarterly revenue > and 70% of quarterly profit. > F > H-P does differ now, of course, in that it is a much bigger company.L > Combined with Compaq, it delivers annual revenue of more than $70 billion,H > compared with around $45 billion as a stand-alone firm. Its work forceL > numbers about 140,000, up from about 86,000. Its global reach has expanded > to more than 170 countries.d > L > Still, the new H-P looks similar to its old self in many ways. It is ruledN > by the same cast of characters: Chief Executive Carly Fiorina runs H-P, withL > H-P veterans such as Ann Livermore and Vyomesh Joshi in charge of the sameJ > tech services and printer businesses that they had overseen prior to theL > deal. Even in structure, the new H-P echoes the old. On May 1, the companyH > realigned behind two customer-oriented organizations -- one to sell toM > individual consumers and one to sell to corporate customers -- akin to whata > it had before buying Compaq. > M > The upshot: H-P still faces many of the same questions over growth and whatOL > value it brings beyond its printing business as it did two years ago. In 4H > p.m. trading yesterday on New York Stock Exchange, H-P's stock fell 22H > cents, or 1.1%, to $19.78, just slightly ahead of its closing price of@ > $18.22 on May 6, 2002, when the combined company was launched. > L > Shares of other big-name technology companies are also down after a dip inJ > the tech-heavy Nasdaq Composite Index this year. Yet some money managersN > have decided to sell off H-P stock in favor of faster-growing rivals such as, > printer company Lexmark International Inc. > K > "At the end of the day, you're still left with a company that has a greatbL > printing franchise but is struggling to sustain profitability in its otherN > businesses," says Marty Shagrin, an analyst at money-management firm VictoryN > Capital Management. "Our analysis of H-P's business today isn't meaningfullyL > different from two years ago." Victory, which owned nearly six million H-PJ > shares at the beginning of the year, "doesn't own much H-P anymore," Mr. > Shagrin says.w > K > Brian Humphries, an H-P spokesman, says the Palo Alto, Calif., company isaN > much stronger today because of the Compaq acquisition. While he acknowledgesL > the printing division remains H-P's strongest performer, he notes that theH > enterprise-computing and personal-computer businesses have returned toM > profitability in the past two years. H-P's market share in both those areasiN > have improved. And the PC and tech-services businesses are growing, he says,1 > propelled by laptop sales and tech-outsourcing.n > N > As a result, Mr. Humphries says H-P is less dependent on printer revenue andN > profit and has become a more well-rounded company. Revenue from the printingK > unit accounted for just 31% of H-P's overall revenue in fiscal 2003, down,K > from 43% in fiscal 2001. Meanwhile, the printing unit made up just 79% ofeG > total profits in fiscal 2003, down from 100% in fiscal 2001, he says.h > N > "You have to look at the trajectory," says Mr. Humphries. "Is the trajectory# > going the right way? Yes, it is."p > M > But some investors and analysts argue this trajectory is a negative one forsJ > H-P. By ramping up its PC and corporate computing business, what H-P hasE > done is dilute the profitability of its printer division, says ToninK > Sacconaghi, an analyst at Sanford C. Bernstein & Co. He calculates that ajJ > stand-alone H-P would have generated earnings of $1.59 a share in fiscalK > 2003 from its printing unit alone, compared with H-P's actual earnings ofl > $1.16 a share that year. > M > Last August, amid much hoopla, H-P introduced 158 new electronic gadgets in@B > its largest-ever consumer-product rollout. The devices include aI > multifunction printer with a liquid-crystal-display screen and wirelesssN > capabilities, as well as improved digital cameras, photo paper and scanners.J > Sales of these products have been robust, propelling H-P into a dominantN > position in the digital-imaging market, say industry analysts. But they noteL > that the revenue and profit from this stream of gadgets have simply servedN > to strengthen H-P's profile as a company with a strong printing division and# > weaker businesses in other areas.o > K > Indeed, H-P's printer business alone is valued at $21 a share, says KevinNH > McCloskey, a portfolio manager at Federated Investors, which owned 9.6G > million H-P shares at the start of the year. That means the market is>N > assigning hardly any value to the company's other businesses. "Not a lot hasC > changed within certain parts of the company," Mr. McCloskey says.  > L > Jason Maxwell, a senior vice president at Trust Company of the West, whichH > owns 1.25 million H-P shares, says he didn't worry so much about H-P'sE > computing businesses before because they were a smaller part of thehM > company's portfolio. "But now, we have to watch that these other businessesvL > don't hurt the printing franchise," he says. "H-P paid $19 billion for theJ > privilege of hardly making any money in some of these other businesses." > D > H-P's Mr. Humphries says the purchase of Compaq hasn't diluted theM > profitability of the printing unit. Instead, the deal has made the printingnL > division stronger, he says, because printer sales can now be bundled alongN > with sales of PCs and tech-services deals. He adds that H-P would be "in a mD > uch worse position now" now if the deal hadn't shored up its other
 > businesses.  > L > Indeed, even though H-P still faces plenty of competition from rivals suchI > as Dell Inc. and International Business Machines Corp., if H-P executes:M > consistently, its PCs and server-computers have the potential to jump-starteM > profitability. Having cut costs and killed off overlapping products in bothHL > those businesses, H-P is now better positioned to develop those areas, sayH > some money managers. The company has recently made a push into digitalA > entertainment, which could drive sales of more PCs and servers.  > H > Hugh Mullin, a portfolio manager at Putnam Investments, which owned 56N > million H-P shares at the start of the year, agrees with this assessment. HeL > says H-P is a more competitive company because it has been strengthened byN > the scale brought on by the Compaq acquisition. But Mr. Mullin adds that H-PE > "isn't yet where it needs to be." The same challenges of growth andeL > sustained profitability that it faced two years ago still haunt it. Still,L > H-P may be "better prepared to deal with those challenges today," he says. >  >  >    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.259 ************************