1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 11 May 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 261       Contents:< %MOUNT-F-MAPHDRBAD, storage map header is bad; volume locked< %MOUNT-F-MAPHDRBAD, storage map header is bad; volume locked@ Re: %MOUNT-F-MAPHDRBAD, storage map header is bad; volume locked@ Re: %MOUNT-F-MAPHDRBAD, storage map header is bad; volume locked? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... ? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... ? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... ? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... ? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... N Re: DCLER (DCL Enhancement Request) for DIRECTORY /SORT=[CREATED,MODIFIED,...]8 Re: DCLER (DCL Enhancement Request) for SET PROMPT: Time0 Re: Enabling External Authentication for OpenVMS0 Re: Enabling External Authentication for OpenVMS@ Re: HBVS, shutdown procedures, dismounting disks, SHADOW_MBR_TMO% Re: How to make HSZ40 devices visible : Re: HP to can HP/UX? Intel pulls out of IA-64 prematurely?6 HP to can HP/UX? Intel pulls out of IA-64 prematurely?: Re: HP to can HP/UX? Intel pulls out of IA-64 prematurely?: Re: HP to can HP/UX? Intel pulls out of IA-64 prematurely?: Re: HP to can HP/UX? Intel pulls out of IA-64 prematurely?P Re: HP World Magazine: For Business Continuity...the answer may be    OpenVMS   J Re: HP World Magazine: For Business Continuity...the answer may be OpenVMSJ Re: HP World Magazine: For Business Continuity...the answer may be OpenVMSP Re: HP World Magazine: For Business Continuity...the answer may be OpenVMS OpenVA Re: Intel is killing processors today, will itanium be axed too ? + Intel jumps Itanic ... HP to drop its unix?   Re: Is ZIP on VMS a process hog?  Re: Is ZIP on VMS a process hog?  Re: Is ZIP on VMS a process hog? John Smith, please resend  Re: John Smith, please resend # Re: LIB$INITIALIZE: simple example? # Re: LIB$INITIALIZE: simple example? # Re: LIB$INITIALIZE: simple example?  longest uptime RE: longest uptime0 Re: OpenVMS Marketshare x Products Consolidation0 RE: OpenVMS Marketshare x Products Consolidation0 Re: OpenVMS Marketshare x Products Consolidation" OT: Worldcom/MCI/Capellas job cuts) PPP and TCP/IP(UCX) configuration for ISP - Re: PPP and TCP/IP(UCX) configuration for ISP  Re: Request for new SMTP! Re: Reserved TCP/IP Port Numbers? ! Re: Reserved TCP/IP Port Numbers? ! Re: Reserved TCP/IP Port Numbers? ! Re: Reserved TCP/IP Port Numbers?  Seeking for an FTP-symbiont  Re: Seeking for an FTP-symbiont  Re: Seeking for an FTP-symbiont  Re: Seeking for an FTP-symbiont  Re: SHOW ROUTE RE: Suggestion for TYPE command ! RE: SUN fails to advertise VMS... ! Re: SUN fails to advertise VMS... ! Re: SUN fails to advertise VMS... ! Re: SUN fails to advertise VMS... ' Re: TCPIP SH HOST and MC TCPIP$NSLOOKUP ' Re: TCPIP SH HOST and MC TCPIP$NSLOOKUP ' Re: TCPIP SH HOST and MC TCPIP$NSLOOKUP ' Re: TCPIP SH HOST and MC TCPIP$NSLOOKUP ' Re: TCPIP SH HOST and MC TCPIP$NSLOOKUP 7 Re: VAXstation M3100 M38, EtherNet AUI Port not working  Re: VMS mentioned in the press Re: VMS mentioned in the press Re: VMS mentioned in the press Re: VMS mentioned in the press Re: XDMP and TCPIP 5.4 Re: XDMP and TCPIP 5.4 Re: XDMP and TCPIP 5.4) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) RE: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) RE: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2004 23:37:28 -0700% From: info@it-bcsb.de (Klaus-D. Bohn) E Subject: %MOUNT-F-MAPHDRBAD, storage map header is bad; volume locked = Message-ID: <12fe110f.0405102237.4586cdcb@posting.google.com>    Hello all specialists,  @ perhaps anyone of you could help me or could give me some hints.  F A wrong command "mount /shadow = ..." has destroyed my data on a disk.A I could stop the shadow copy by 0%. But i can't mount the disk by E normal way and get the error message "%MOUNT-F-MAPHDRBAD, storage map ; header is bad; volume locked". Mount /foreign works normal.   6 What is the best way to recover the data on this disk.  # Thank you very much for your help !         Klaus-D. Bohn   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2004 05:39:44 -0700% From: info@it-bcsb.de (Klaus-D. Bohn) E Subject: %MOUNT-F-MAPHDRBAD, storage map header is bad; volume locked = Message-ID: <12fe110f.0405110439.5b179386@posting.google.com>    Hello all specialists,  @ perhaps anyone of you could help me or could give me some hints.  F A wrong command "mount /shadow = ..." has destroyed my data on a disk.A I could stop the shadow copy by 0%. But i can't mount the disk by E normal way and get the error message "%MOUNT-F-MAPHDRBAD, storage map ; header is bad; volume locked". Mount /foreign works normal.   6 What is the best way to recover the data on this disk.  # Thank you very much for your help !         Klaus-D. Bohn   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:34:48 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> I Subject: Re: %MOUNT-F-MAPHDRBAD, storage map header is bad; volume locked 2 Message-ID: <40A0E4FA.BF08DC0D@firstdbasource.com>  E If you can mount it foreign you can use backup or copy  to move it to F another disk.  You will need to initialize the new disk appropriately.I While you may be able to copy most of the data, you may still suffer some ! data loss.  Where is your backup?    Michael Austin.    "Klaus-D. Bohn" wrote:   > Hello all specialists, > B > perhaps anyone of you could help me or could give me some hints. > H > A wrong command "mount /shadow = ..." has destroyed my data on a disk.C > I could stop the shadow copy by 0%. But i can't mount the disk by G > normal way and get the error message "%MOUNT-F-MAPHDRBAD, storage map = > header is bad; volume locked". Mount /foreign works normal.  > 8 > What is the best way to recover the data on this disk. > % > Thank you very much for your help !  >  >      Klaus-D. Bohn   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:52:41 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) I Subject: Re: %MOUNT-F-MAPHDRBAD, storage map header is bad; volume locked 2 Message-ID: <Jp8oc.1225$km1.1190@news.cpqcorp.net>  e In article <12fe110f.0405102237.4586cdcb@posting.google.com>, info@it-bcsb.de (Klaus-D. Bohn) writes:   G :A wrong command "mount /shadow = ..." has destroyed my data on a disk.   D   Yes, the command may well have overwritten and destroyed the data.  E   This is unfortunate, as the apparent error and the apparent lack of E   a BACKUP tape may well have caused this data to be completely lost.   B :I could stop the shadow copy by 0%. But i can't mount the disk byF :normal way and get the error message "%MOUNT-F-MAPHDRBAD, storage map< :header is bad; volume locked". Mount /foreign works normal.  E   MOUNT/FOREIGN doesn't particularly care about the volume structure, C   and can mount blank volumes and even the most corrupt of volumes.   D   It also does not particularly write to the disk, an activity whichC   should be avoided pending any attempted data recovery operations, /   lest additional data be overwritten and lost.   7 :What is the best way to recover the data on this disk.   D   Please contact the customer support center directly, as there is aE   slight chance that some of the data might be recoverable using some F   volume-structure-level recovery tools.  Some or all of the disk data8   involved may well be unrecoverable; gone; corrupted.    F   This attempt to recover the disk data may not be cheap, and there isF   also no certainly that any or all of the data can even be recovered;,   the data recovery attempt might well fail.  H   Since you are asking here, you will clearly also want to review topicsJ   including the site-local BACKUP strategy, the specific value of the diskI   data involved, the appropriate re- or  de-assignment of privileges, the G   use of the MOUNT /CONFIRM command, and/or the applicablity of command K   procedures to perform specific tasks that may result in data corruptions. I   (This is not the only way to corrupt data -- shadowing does not protect H   against command errors, nor against application errors, for instance.)    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:38:49 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....0 Message-ID: <c7qafp$e51$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote:  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c7nl4t$g1u$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  >>David Svensson wrote:  >>t >>>Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<c7i9s4$p83$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>>  >>>  >>>>Keith Parris wrote:   
 >>Fuji no.* >>HP possibly but even 20000 sounds rather
 >>optimistic.  >  > 9 > Clearly above 20000. Intel sold above 100000 last year, / > HP has most likely 80% of the Itanium market.  >  >   5 Hang on Intel estimated that they were going to build  100000 itaniums last year.  5 When did the estimate of 100000 which vanishingly few 0 people thought was likely to happen turn into an actual sale of 100000 CPU's.  8 Just to help you build and sell are two rather different things.   1 And where did the 13000 Itanium CPU's sold by SGI  come from ? ; >>>>Itanium is for HP, the sooner the rest of the Intel OEM = >>>>community wake up to that fact the better (for them), IBM A >>>>already have and its only a matter of time before NEC, Unisys > >>>>and the rest give up on what have been a major problem for >>>>HP and a disaster for them.  >>>  >>>  >>>That is FUD. / >>>IBM have not changed their Itanium plans and ) >>>NEC is doing pretty well with Itanium.  >>5 >>This is not FUD, IBM have chosen not to use Itanium : >>for their next generation high end Intel based SMP boxes= >>this was key design win that Itanium needed. IBM considered : >>Itanium but rejected it because it was too expensive and >>not fast enough. >  > G > This has been discussed before... IBM has as far as I know never been E > that keen on Itanium for various reasons. I don't expect them to do  > more than what they do now.   ! Sorry but thats the wrong answer.   ; Had IBM's only option for 64bit been Itanium then I suspect < that their decision would have been different, only having a= 32bit OS and 32bit platform would for a large SMP system with / up to 64 CPU's have become an increasing issue.   C However its also pretty clear that IBM knew about the Intel x86-64  D announcements before they made their decision hence their apparently@ odd choice of going with what at the time appeared to be a 32bit platform only.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:41:13 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....0 Message-ID: <c7qak9$e51$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote: > In article <c7nl4t$g1u$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  > 9 >>And I seen no signs that NEC is doing well with Itanium 8 >>perhaps you could provide some references. Remember it6 >>isn't one off referencable sales that matter but how9 >>many units you actually sell based on those references.  >> >  > A > 	Eh?  So? NEC is a blip.  At 2% of the world-wide server share,  > 	they are small.   >  > @ > http://www.dataquest.com/press_gartner/quickstats/servers.html > H > Statistics: Top 10 Server Vendors by Shipments, Worldwide 2002-2003    > Q >                     2002        2003         2002 Share %        2003 Share %   I > Hewlett-Packard     1,388,508   1,605,856    30.1%               28.9%  I > Dell                  852,332   1,105,577    18.5%               19.9%  I > IBM                   659,472     878,390    14.3%               15.8%  I > Sun Microsystems      273,665     287,976     5.9%                5.2%  I > Fujitsu Siemens       167,752     119,537     3.6%                2.2%  I > NEC                   103,692     111,508     2.2%                2.0%  I > Hitachi                28,764      29,669     0.6%                0.5%   > 4 > Source: Gartner Dataquest Q403 WW Server Quarterly& > Statistics Database (February 2004)  > 	 > 				Rob  > @ Do you think that the 111,508 units sold by NEC were all Itanium boxes.  - Come on Rob even you can do better than that.   = Try a vanishingly tiny number of Itanium boxes augmented by a  large number of x86 servers.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:44:09 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....0 Message-ID: <c7qapp$e51$3@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote:  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c7nlk3$g9i$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > D >>Even Dell who have an exclusive deal with Intel are hardly pushing >>Itanium are they.  >  > 4 > They are about to ship a 4-way Itanium server now.  / Wow, how many years have HP been shipping 4 way  Itanium boxes for.  . If you can't work out why this point is rather/ damaging to yours then have a think about Dells  market strategy.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 03:23:04 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....@ Message-ID: <95c1e676cb5d379edafd633f5938df2a@news.teranews.com>   Rob Young wrote:H >         Eh?  So? NEC is a blip.  At 2% of the world-wide server share, >         they are small.   J Beware. I read some article about some small california company becoming a< major player in high performance clusters made of cheap PCs.  J They are creating a large cluster of Lawrence Livermore Labs consisting ofN 1048 4 processor boxes. The processor ? IA64. (No mention on how big a nuclearL plant will be required to run that beast and to global warming caused by the heat generated :-)  J So, a single sale generated over 4000 I64 chips. That is bound to skew the IA64 statistics big time.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:14:21 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ....., Message-ID: <40A0EDCD.6080405@tsoft-inc.com>   Rob Young wrote:   > In article <c7nl4t$g1u$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  > 9 >>And I seen no signs that NEC is doing well with Itanium 8 >>perhaps you could provide some references. Remember it6 >>isn't one off referencable sales that matter but how9 >>many units you actually sell based on those references.  >> >> > A > 	Eh?  So? NEC is a blip.  At 2% of the world-wide server share,  > 	they are small.   >  > @ > http://www.dataquest.com/press_gartner/quickstats/servers.html > H > Statistics: Top 10 Server Vendors by Shipments, Worldwide 2002-2003    > Q >                     2002        2003         2002 Share %        2003 Share %   I > Hewlett-Packard     1,388,508   1,605,856    30.1%               28.9%  I > Dell                  852,332   1,105,577    18.5%               19.9%  I > IBM                   659,472     878,390    14.3%               15.8%  I > Sun Microsystems      273,665     287,976     5.9%                5.2%  I > Fujitsu Siemens       167,752     119,537     3.6%                2.2%  I > NEC                   103,692     111,508     2.2%                2.0%  I > Hitachi                28,764      29,669     0.6%                0.5%   > 4 > Source: Gartner Dataquest Q403 WW Server Quarterly& > Statistics Database (February 2004)  > 	 > 				Rob  >  >   I Ah, Rob, the question isn't how many servers, it's how many itanic based  P servers.  As far as that goes, apply the same question to all those in the list  above.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:59:43 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>W Subject: Re: DCLER (DCL Enhancement Request) for DIRECTORY /SORT=[CREATED,MODIFIED,...] ) Message-ID: <2gbffgFrnueU1@uni-berlin.de>    Peter Weaver wrote:  > Paul Sture wrote:  >  >>... @ >>Peter Weaver posted this neat trick with dates on 30-Apr-2004: >>@ >>Make sure you run it with SET TERM/WIDTH=132 to avoid wrapping >>...  >  > H > Actually, if the terminal is set to 80 the wrap should be OK, but hereH > is an "Improved" version that handles the terminal wrap better as longI > as you have the terminal width set to 80. Watch the two long lines, the E > comments tell you how many spaces should be there. (It sure is nice , > seeing VMS postings in comp.os.vms again!) >   > $ ASSIGN LIB$DATE_FORMAT_037,- >    LIB$TIME_FORMAT_001 - >    LIB$DT_FORMAT/USER_MODE' > $ directx -  ! Ignore any DIR symbols  >    /date=modified-" >    /width=(file:80,display:132)-8 >    /out=sys$scratch:sort_date_'f$getjpi("","PID")'.tmp< > $ sort sys$scratch:sort_date_'f$getjpi("","PID")'.tmp tt:- >     /specification=sys$input: , > /field=(name=filename1,position:1,size:19)- > /field=(name=filename2,position:20,size:60) - > /field=(name=datefield,position:83,size:22) 1 > /condition=(name=shortname,test=(filename2 eq " , >                            ")) ! 60 spaces0 > /condition=(name=longname,test=(filename2 ne "+ >                           ")) ! 60 spaces   > /include=(condition=shortname, > key=datefield, > data=filename1,  > data="  ", ! 2 spaces  > data=datefield)  > /include=(condition=longname,  > key=datefield, > data=filename1,  > data=filename2, , > data="                      ", ! 22 spaces > data=datefield) J > $ delete/nolog/noconfirm sys$scratch:sort_date_'f$getjpi("","PID")'.tmp. >   D Very nice thanks. I've never used /condition in sort specifications " before, so time to hit the docset.  F Note to other readers. Mozilla wrapped here and reduced the 60 spaces I literal to only 26 spaces, so I needed an edit to unwrap those lines and  1 make sure both occurences were exactly 60 spaces.   > (For TPU users, <DO>REPEAT 60<RET>space does the trick nicely)   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2004 06:36:42 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)A Subject: Re: DCLER (DCL Enhancement Request) for SET PROMPT: Time = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0405110536.1b6d1c53@posting.google.com>   ~ "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message news:<409E5608.A14E4BE5@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>... > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > > F > > Any chance of having a time option added to SET PROMPT? Perhaps itJ > > could be added F$FAO style. Note: The time would be static -- it would< > > just be the time that the prompt appeared on the screen. > & > Ala SET PREFIX, only for the prompt. > G > Seems a simple enough change, though a lot of folks have been looking B > for a more UN*X-ly prompt showing the current working directory. > # > Can't please everyone, I guess...   F Well, I envision it as something customizable. The default would stillC be "$ ". You could make it like the MS-DOS prompt which can contain F the time, the directory, both, or neither. As for me, I would like theD time and the node name. The node name I can do, and do do, of course% (no pun intended). The time, I can't.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2004 03:52:49 -0700% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) 9 Subject: Re: Enabling External Authentication for OpenVMS = Message-ID: <a98cd882.0405110252.5d817373@posting.google.com>   E You also need an Advanced Server Hostmap entry, either explicit or by  default mapping rules.  D If you use a trust relation with the domain which is to authenticate6 your users, you always need an explicit hostmap entry.  	 Bart Zorn     o peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<newscache$vpmixh$oke1$1@news.sil.at>... p > In article <f30679fb.0405100746.49e1ae39@posting.google.com>, fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) writes:8 > >In case of not, can an OVMS server be only a BDC like > >for other Windows domain ?  > $ > 1) No, member server is supported.G > 2) OVMS don't need to be part of the domain the SSO uses (but a trust 1 > between the two domains must then be in place). N > 3) you don't need to run PW on the node on which the external authenticationQ > should be used (but you do need at least one PW server running in the cluster).  > 8 >   "PWRK$ACME_DEFAULT_DOMAIN" [exec] = "as-you-like-it"E >   "PWRK$ACME_MODULE" [exec] = "SYS$SHARE:PWRK$ACME_MODULE_arch.EXE" 3 >   "PWRK$ACME_SERVER" [exec] = "pwserv1[,pwserv2]" 1 >   "SYS$ACME_MODULE" [exec] = "PWRK$ACME_MODULE" K >   "SYS$SINGLE_SIGNON" [exec] = "3"	! or 80000003 for debugging with OPCOM  > I > And check also SYS$STARTUP:PWRK$ACME_STARTUP.COM (for the nodes without N > the PW server running). Of course UAF flag EXTAUTH is required for the user.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2004 04:04:59 -0700. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)9 Subject: Re: Enabling External Authentication for OpenVMS = Message-ID: <f30679fb.0405110304.1bd86bb3@posting.google.com>   o peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<newscache$vpmixh$oke1$1@news.sil.at>... p > In article <f30679fb.0405100746.49e1ae39@posting.google.com>, fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) writes:8 > >In case of not, can an OVMS server be only a BDC like > >for other Windows domain ?  > $ > 1) No, member server is supported.G > 2) OVMS don't need to be part of the domain the SSO uses (but a trust 1 > between the two domains must then be in place). N > 3) you don't need to run PW on the node on which the external authenticationQ > should be used (but you do need at least one PW server running in the cluster).  > 8 >   "PWRK$ACME_DEFAULT_DOMAIN" [exec] = "as-you-like-it"E >   "PWRK$ACME_MODULE" [exec] = "SYS$SHARE:PWRK$ACME_MODULE_arch.EXE" 3 >   "PWRK$ACME_SERVER" [exec] = "pwserv1[,pwserv2]" 1 >   "SYS$ACME_MODULE" [exec] = "PWRK$ACME_MODULE" K >   "SYS$SINGLE_SIGNON" [exec] = "3"	! or 80000003 for debugging with OPCOM  > I > And check also SYS$STARTUP:PWRK$ACME_STARTUP.COM (for the nodes without N > the PW server running). Of course UAF flag EXTAUTH is required for the user.    B Thats the problem ! I dontw want a Lan Manager anymore installedA in my OVMS systems. I have doubts if it can offer so much for the I environment, except SSO. No body wants to use an OVMS box as file-server. E Look to NetAPPs: they have a dedicated OS for this kind of purpose !       Regards   
 Fbio Cardoso    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:07:06 +0100 ) From: Tony Arnold <tony.arnold@man.ac.uk> I Subject: Re: HBVS, shutdown procedures, dismounting disks, SHADOW_MBR_TMO - Message-ID: <c7qq6q$27mr$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>    Phillip,  H I'm not sure what problem you are trying to solve here! Let us consider  a few scenarios.  H Firstly, let us assume no shadow sets. We will have some disks that are H local to the system being rebooted which are either mounted locally and H possibly by other systems in the cluster. There will also be some disks F mounted by this system but served by some other system in the cluster.  A Disks that are local and not mounted by any other system will be  # dismounted cleanly by SHURDOWN.COM.   F Disks that are local and also mounted by other system in the cluster, I wil be dismounted by the local system, but remain mounted by the others.  H Access to this disk by the other systems will hang until the system has H been rebooted. If the system is down for long enough, the disks will go F inteop mount verify timeout on the other systems, but if you are just ) rebooting, this is usually not a problem.   G Disks that are served by other systems but mounted locally should also  I be dismounted cleanly by SHUTDOWN.COM. These disks should continue to be  B served and available to the rest of the cluster during the reboot.  H OK, now let us consider shadow sets, which is more complicated. I think C the complication arises when you have one shadow set member on the  ? rebooting system and another shadow set member on another node.   F I'm not too sure about this, but I believe that if another node has a H file open or is accessing the shadow set at the time you reboot, then a G shadow merge or copy will be required when you reboot as one member of  I the set may have changed and the other not. To avoid this you would have  H to dismount all shadow set members at least on the nodes they are local H too and possibly cluster wide. To do so, you would also have to kill of H any application that is accessing these disks. But then if there are no ? files open on the shadow set during the reboot, then no shadow  G copy/merge will be needed and you therefore would not have to dismount   the disks in this situation.   Tony.   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: J > Hobbyist cluster, all disks are physical SCSI disks (or, in one case, an> > RF disk on a DSSI bus) MSCP served to all nodes.  No SAN, noI > controller-based RAID etc.  Most of the disks are in shadow sets which, H > unless it is the system disk, has members on more than one node.   AllJ > disks, whether shadowed or not, are mounted by all nodes in the cluster. > K > Occasionally, I want to reboot just one node in the cluster.  I'm trying  I > to figure out what disks to dismount before doing a reboot.  There are  $ > the following categories of disks: > 5 >    A. non-shadowed disks on the node to be rebooted  > ) >    B. non-shadowed disks on other nodes  > ? >    C. shadow sets with all members on the node to be rebooted  > 3 >    D. shadow sets with all members on other nodes  > M >    E. shadow sets with some members on the node to be rebooted and some on   >        other nodes > J > There is also the question whether the dismount needs to be done on the + > node shutting down or on the other nodes.  > G > I've had a look at SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM, but the code is not very   > easy to follow.  :-| > K > Here is my gut feeling: B is not necessary, in E: I need to dismount the  D > members with a direct connection to the node to be rebooted, A is % > probably necessary, as are C and D.  > H > SHUTDOWN.COM does dismount some disks, of course.  As the code is not H > very easy to follow, does anyone know which of the A--E above it does? > = > How is any of this related to the value of SHADOW_MBR_TMO?  K > SHADOW_MBR_TMO is probably more relevant to an unexpected reboot without  J > a clean shutdown caused by a power outage, crash of a machine etc.  The D > default is 120 seconds.  What, if any, disadvantages are there in " > setting it to a very high value? > K > It seems that SHUTDOWN.COM invokes the site-specific shutdown procedure,  D > where my own dismount commands would logically be located, before F > stopping the audit server and the smi server.  This is unfortunate, H > since if the corresponding files are not on the system disk (as in my K > case, so that they can be common throughout the cluster and available to  K > all members which are up), this disk cannot be dismounted.  A workaround  J > would be to shut down the audit server etc in my site-specific shutdown D > procedure before dismounting the disk, but that seems rather ugly. >    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2004 18:31:56 -06004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt). Subject: Re: How to make HSZ40 devices visible3 Message-ID: <r8GIzeKXedPe@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <fe9697fd.0405061131.313f197d@posting.google.com>, steve.esson@esa.int (hieronymous) writes: N >> Are you sure the batteries are fine? They need to be replaced at least once >> every two years!!!  > D > The batteries are dead but the console says the writeback caching B > is disabled.   Shouldn't it work OK without them?  At the moment> > it behaves like theres nothing on the end of the scsi cable.  @ One of the "features" of the HS*40s was that a bad battery wouldA cause all the disks to become unavailable.  This was "fixed" with A the 50s, in that you could tell the controller "not to worry I've > got a DATACENTER_UPS" and it would let you continue with a bad= battery.  The batteries should be replaced every two or three . years (I forget which), especially on the 40s.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:28:02 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> C Subject: Re: HP to can HP/UX? Intel pulls out of IA-64 prematurely? 0 Message-ID: <c7q9ri$dsi$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Nic Clews wrote: > Karsten Nyblad wrote:  > K >>It is not me asking that.  It is www.theinquirer.net that has this rumor:  >>+ >>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15834  >>K >>"SAY WHAT you will about HP, it sure bakes a cool pizza, and I so enjoyed  >>the . >>filled edges on the one I munched yesterday.K >>Was chewing away when I heard someone say that HP/UX would soon be in the C >>past tense, while Linux is the four cheeses on the bread topping.  >  > ...  > J > IBM a couple of years ago were stating that if/when linux gives the sameI > functionality as AIX, that AIX will move to "mature" status. While this J > was stated to those seriously looking at linux, I'm not sure how much ofI > a public announcement (or push) was made, probably none, as IBM are not F > in the habit of getting on the wrong side of customers providing the > colour of the money is right.  > F Thay also went on to say that they didn't expect Linux to reach parityD with AIX for at least a decade. Rather too long for anyone to really care or take notice.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:55:17 +0200 * From: "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com>? Subject: HP to can HP/UX? Intel pulls out of IA-64 prematurely? , Message-ID: <c7q4dl$hq0$1@news.cybercity.dk>  I It is not me asking that.  It is www.theinquirer.net that has this rumor:   ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15834   I "SAY WHAT you will about HP, it sure bakes a cool pizza, and I so enjoyed  the , filled edges on the one I munched yesterday.I Was chewing away when I heard someone say that HP/UX would soon be in the A past tense, while Linux is the four cheeses on the bread topping.   F That's either RedHat or SuSE and the Novell Banshees for a development environment.   Gnome and Bash. Sheesh!   K I almost choked when I heard the guys use the swearword "Itanic" instead of > Itanium, now that demand for Opterons is an AmericanHot topic.  J Intel has pulled the plug on some of the future Itanic plans with HP, muchJ to the PA-RISC guys' disgruntlement as it "re-aligns" its future strategy.  L That's kind of pushing Carly in the direction of Hector once again, although2 HP will look at Intel's "variant" when it emerges.  L As the pieces of pizza splattered everywhere because of this new news, I wasG handed a flagon of Gatorade by Jim, which I quaffed gratefully and then / headed for the fresh air, still shell shocked."    Karsten Nyblad ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:53:41 +0100 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>C Subject: Re: HP to can HP/UX? Intel pulls out of IA-64 prematurely?u' Message-ID: <c7q7u4$658$1@lore.csc.com>D   Karsten Nyblad wrote:a > K > It is not me asking that.  It is www.theinquirer.net that has this rumor:e > + > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15834v > K > "SAY WHAT you will about HP, it sure bakes a cool pizza, and I so enjoyede > the . > filled edges on the one I munched yesterday.K > Was chewing away when I heard someone say that HP/UX would soon be in the C > past tense, while Linux is the four cheeses on the bread topping.h ...p  H IBM a couple of years ago were stating that if/when linux gives the sameG functionality as AIX, that AIX will move to "mature" status. While thiseH was stated to those seriously looking at linux, I'm not sure how much ofG a public announcement (or push) was made, probably none, as IBM are notOD in the habit of getting on the wrong side of customers providing the colour of the money is right.d   -- H? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesa nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 18:18:41 +0200l, From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl>C Subject: Re: HP to can HP/UX? Intel pulls out of IA-64 prematurely?t* Message-ID: <2gccr8F17149U1@uni-berlin.de>  7 "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> schreef in bericht & news:c7q4dl$hq0$1@news.cybercity.dk...K > It is not me asking that.  It is www.theinquirer.net that has this rumor:V >  [snip]  J > As the pieces of pizza splattered everywhere because of this new news, I wasgI > handed a flagon of Gatorade by Jim, which I quaffed gratefully and then 1 > headed for the fresh air, still shell shocked."o >  > Karsten Nyblad! > ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot coms >P > J Re-read the article and decide for yourself what the factual contents are.6 IMHO most blank sheets of paper hold more information.   Hans   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:59:37 GMTe- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> C Subject: Re: HP to can HP/UX? Intel pulls out of IA-64 prematurely?s@ Message-ID: <bb0ec3c6f2cfce8fd4d1f03d7fff1836@news.teranews.com>   Karsten Nyblad wrote:  > K > It is not me asking that.  It is www.theinquirer.net that has this rumor:o+ > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15834   I Someone should have posted the whole article because as of 13:00 EDT, themK article, while still listed on the front page, leads to a "page not found".   K Seems that the HP heads didn't like the article and must have twisted a few K gonads to have the article pulled. Whether they got mad because the articleP2 was true, or whether it was slander, I can't tell.  N HP-UX has a large installed base. It is possible that HP may have realised howN dreadful HP-UX is at the core, especially now that they are able to compare itI with Tru64. As a result, perhaps they have realised it might be better to @ ditch it alltogether and go with some "industry standard" Linux.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:23:47 +0200M* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>Y Subject: Re: HP World Magazine: For Business Continuity...the answer may be    OpenVMS   s) Message-ID: <2gbdc4FpoflU1@uni-berlin.de>a   JF Mezei wrote:D > Robert Deininger wrote:a >    [snip]   > I >>I strongly suspect DS15 costs more to manufacture than the list sellingi >>price of rx1600. >  > L > OK, pray tell, from the system point of view, why would a low volume Alpha; > machine cost more to produce than a low volume IA64 box ?P >  >  > I >>The only way to profitably sell Alphas much cheaper would be to cut thePI >>cost to manufacture.  That would require aggressively designing for lowg >>cost (not a Digital strength)' >  > N > Both Compaq and HP are supposedly capable of producing low cost. When CompaqP > inherited Digital, it mentioned amny times that due to the combined purchasingG > power, it would be able to reduce parts costs for both DEC and Compaq-N > products. Now, HP is even bigger and should have even lower costs for parts. > I > Sorry, that excuse doesn't hold. Where there is a will, there is a way.h > O > Digital ceased to exist in 1999. Both Compaq and HP had plenty of time modifyeV > the DS10 and design the DS15 to change whatever resulted in higher production costs.  I It can cost a surprisingly large amount to re-engineer a production line nD for new models. It's everything from redesign through retooling the D plant (capital equipment costs) to quality control of the resulting E products. It's a lot more complex than simply using lower cost parts.   H I have no idea how strong Digital were in this area, but can envisage a C culture clash with both new owners, which wouldn't have helped the -F Alpha's cause. Pure speculation on my part of course, but I have seen = this type of culture clash happen with mergers and takeovers.b   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:15:15 GMTg5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) S Subject: Re: HP World Magazine: For Business Continuity...the answer may be OpenVMS.L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1105040618330001@user-uinj07p.dialup.mindspring.com>  I In article <b8876400c5f6265491ad8f3db64c424a@news.teranews.com>, JF MezeiD% <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:m   >Robert Deininger wrote:F >> I don't know exactly _why_, but it is the case.  Digital built good= >> systems, but they were not very good at controlling costs.  >-I >Aren't Alpha systems such as DS10s (and I would assume DS15s) built fromi >industry standard parts ? a   Partly.   , >They use industry standard PCI bus, right ?G The proper punctuation, in this case, is "industry standard".  PCI is acF nasty standard, with lots of wiggle room.  Many hours have been wasted  getting PCI stuff to work right.    >Industry standard power supply,  E No.  Power supplies are mostly "custom", but ordered from a "menu" of F standard building blocks and features.  Digital/Compaq rarely used the( same power supply twice in Alphaservers.   >drives, connectors, etc ? o  H Yes.  But in the case of drives, remember that "industry standard" meansF "lowest quality that is not guaranteed to cause riots".  This can meanH lots of extra engineering time, which is hard to pay for on a low-volume system.s     ...U  D >However, DS10s and DS15s are modern systems and under Compaq, theirN >production costs should have gone down simply due to greater purchasing power >of Compaq.n  E That sounds like Boardroom Boilerplate.  Only marginally relevant for-# low-volume stuff like Alphaservers.a    L >And in hindsight, it is clear that Compaq had no intentions of making AlphaN >succeed and as a result, was more likely to leave them priced uncompetitivelyO >and use accounting  tricks to make their production costs look much worse thanlJ >they could have been. Had Compaq made Alpha competitive and had the AlphaO >product line shown great growth, Compaq couldn't have done what it did on Junea	 >25 2001.t  G Never let reality interfere with your fevered imagination.  Nobody everaE needed "accounting tricks" to make Alphaserver production costs high.a    J >> I strongly suspect DS15 costs more to manufacture than the list selling >> price of rx1600.a >aK >OK, pray tell, from the system point of view, why would a low volume Alpha : >machine cost more to produce than a low volume IA64 box ?  H Mostly lots of little things, I suspect.  Power supplies.  Fans.  BetterA re-use of lots of pesky little components in later generations ofoI systems.  Fewer hours of labor to build the system.  Better management ofeH the supply chain filled with thousands of individual components (some of< which are always gathering dust or going to the scrap heap).  F A few big things.  Alpha CPUs (bought from IBM) cost more than Itanium CPUs (bought from Intel).l    J >> The only way to profitably sell Alphas much cheaper would be to cut theJ >> cost to manufacture.  That would require aggressively designing for low  >> cost (not a Digital strength) >.M >Both Compaq and HP are supposedly capable of producing low cost. When Compaq O >inherited Digital, it mentioned amny times that due to the combined purchasingrF >power, it would be able to reduce parts costs for both DEC and Compaq >products. o  G Very little of that happened for Alphaservers.  Mostly Compaq disruptedc' stuff that should have been left alone.t  J Look at an ES40 compared to an ES45.  There's no fundamental change in theI way these systems are designed.  Compaq's magic wand didn't really changer	 anything.t    C >Now, HP is even bigger and should have even lower costs for parts.o  J That formula works pretty well for paper clips.  It's much hard to make itG work for complex system components with fairly rigorous specifications.-  H >Sorry, that excuse doesn't hold. Where there is a will, there is a way.  E Whatever.  I know better than to try to start my own company to build-/ computers.  You are welcome to try if you like.-    N >Digital ceased to exist in 1999. Both Compaq and HP had plenty of time modifyC >the DS10 and design the DS15 to change whatever resulted in higher0 production costs.r  F DS10 was a Digital design.  Compaq changed the logo.  They didn't do aG ground-up redesign aimed at reducing the cost.  Maybe they should have,-J but it would have meant a long delay in getting the system to market.  AndH I don't think the Digital engineering culture could have done it without@ radical upheaval.  HP was far too late to alter the DS10 design.  G DS15 is an HP product.  It obviously borrows a lot from DS10, DS25, and.I ES45.  That was necessary because HP rushed it to market.  Getting it out>J the door quickly was more important than redesigning for low cost.  So theJ engineers (the old Digital server folks) did what they were used to doing,2 and ended up with a typical Digital-priced system.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 01:13:09 GMTt5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger)tS Subject: Re: HP World Magazine: For Business Continuity...the answer may be OpenVMS L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1005042116220001@user-uinj462.dialup.mindspring.com>  I In article <d8ece8766feb0230d57ad42fe1bde30b@news.teranews.com>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:t   >Robert Deininger wrote:J >> The components used in a DS10 probably haven't gotten much cheaper, andI >> DS15 is in the same ballpark.  I think $6-$7k is too expensive for VMSh >> entry level.  >tH >> Obviously, HP has some flexibility in pricing.  But they can build an# >> rx1600 for far less than a DS15,  >n > L >Ok, please explain why a DS10 would have to be more expensive to HP than an >itanium equivalent.  C I don't know exactly _why_, but it is the case.  Digital built goodlI systems, but they were not very good at controlling costs.  Compaq didn'teJ really change the alphaserver HW business.  HP HW groups seem to be betterJ at designing and building systems at lower cost.  That is reflected in the selling prices.   G I happened to know the approximate cost to manufacture DS15 when it waseJ released.  There isn't all that much profit in the sale of these systems. G I strongly suspect DS15 costs more to manufacture than the list sellingo price of rx1600.  K >The problem with Alpha is that they are still priced at the upper limit ofwF >what rich customers will tolerate. The rest of the industry is priced competitively.  F There's significant profit in each large system sale.  At the low end,F that's not the case.  A customer with a good relationship with a salesG person will get discounts that take almost all the profit out of a DS15 I sale.  The expectation is that software, storage, service contracts, etc. 4 will make up for thin profit margins on the systems.  G The only way to profitably sell Alphas much cheaper would be to cut theAG cost to manufacture.  That would require aggressively designing for lowoI cost (not a Digital strength) or _significantly_ increasing the volume toA< lower the per-unit parts cost (also not a Digital strength).  I HP is better at low-cost servers than Digital was.  Maybe Digital got fat G and lazy back when VAX was the hottest thing in the industry, and never' recovered.  I don't know.s  J >I do not buy the argument that Alpha *systems* would be more expensive to >build than IA64.E > H >If at all, I would presume that IA64 systems are priced as loss leaders
 right now.  F Not from what I hear.  Every system sale is supposed to turn a profit.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 03:13:47 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Y Subject: Re: HP World Magazine: For Business Continuity...the answer may be OpenVMS OpenV%@ Message-ID: <b8876400c5f6265491ad8f3db64c424a@news.teranews.com>   Robert Deininger wrote:.E > I don't know exactly _why_, but it is the case.  Digital built good < > systems, but they were not very good at controlling costs.  H Aren't Alpha systems such as DS10s (and I would assume DS15s) built fromF industry standard parts ? They use industry standa<rd PCI bus, right ?: Industry standard power supply, drives, connectors, etc ?   I While I understand that the original Microvax II in the large cabinet was4N built like a tank with the steel alone probably costing more than your averageN PC today.  However, DS10s and DS15s are modern systems and under Compaq, theirM production costs should have gone down simply due to greater purchasing power 
 of Compaq.  K And in hindsight, it is clear that Compaq had no intentions of making Alpha M succeed and as a result, was more likely to leave them priced uncompetitivelyrN and use accounting  tricks to make their production costs look much worse thanI they could have been. Had Compaq made Alpha competitive and had the AlphaeN product line shown great growth, Compaq couldn't have done what it did on June 25 2001.  I > I strongly suspect DS15 costs more to manufacture than the list sellingn > price of rx1600.  J OK, pray tell, from the system point of view, why would a low volume Alpha9 machine cost more to produce than a low volume IA64 box ?a    I > The only way to profitably sell Alphas much cheaper would be to cut thenI > cost to manufacture.  That would require aggressively designing for lowt > cost (not a Digital strength)n  L Both Compaq and HP are supposedly capable of producing low cost. When CompaqN inherited Digital, it mentioned amny times that due to the combined purchasingE power, it would be able to reduce parts costs for both DEC and Compaq.L products. Now, HP is even bigger and should have even lower costs for parts.  G Sorry, that excuse doesn't hold. Where there is a will, there is a way.   M Digital ceased to exist in 1999. Both Compaq and HP had plenty of time modifyeT the DS10 and design the DS15 to change whatever resulted in higher production costs.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2004 02:16:36 -0700. From: mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon)J Subject: Re: Intel is killing processors today, will itanium be axed too ?< Message-ID: <7500353b.0405110116.47667d5@posting.google.com>  s mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon) wrote in message news:<7500353b.0405070507.6ab07187@posting.google.com>...tA > P4 plans for various processors are being cancelled, rumours of < > reasons concern heat-dissipation and not for being 64 bit. > C > Itanium hasnt been doing well lately, will it be on the axe too ?  >  > Mw   A rumour from theinquirer...  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15834   E Intel has pulled the plug on some of the future Itanic plans with HP,CE much to the PA-RISC guys' disgruntlement as it "re-aligns" its futuren	 strategy.    M    ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2004 06:23:38 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)4 Subject: Intel jumps Itanic ... HP to drop its unix?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0405110523.10b6d810@posting.google.com>?  , does HP now have to steer the itanic itself?  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15834    ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2004 06:21:09 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)) Subject: Re: Is ZIP on VMS a process hog? = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0405110521.585dd27e@posting.google.com>h  ~ "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message news:<40A03D3B.EB115B61@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>... > Bob Ceculski wrote:1 > > ; > > I notice a slowdown on our alpha when a vms zip file is 9 > > "unzipped" ... is anyone aware of a priority problem?  > ' > On the chance that this *IS* legit...m > < > (de)Compressing data is an entirely CPU-intensive process. > G > CPU scheduling priority can be adjusted to minimize the impact, if ita9 > becomes an issue (CPU upgrade would be another option).   9 this isn't on the compression part, it happens during thet archiving message ...b   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:33:20 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>s) Subject: Re: Is ZIP on VMS a process hog?t' Message-ID: <40A081C0.E50733D3@aaa.com>   = Since zip/unzip is a more or less CPU-only operation, it wille; consume a full cpu (or *the* cpu) on just about any system,g: multi-cpu or not. But hey, that's what the cpu's are there for, right ?  	 Jan-Erik.      Michael Austin wrote:- > C > I **have** seen both zip and unzip almost consume a full cpu on a<K > multi-cpu system.  Even though the Alpha chip is fast, it will still takeR% > several hours to zip a 16GB file...e > 
 > Michael.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:48:41 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>) Subject: Re: Is ZIP on VMS a process hog?r* Message-ID: <2gc3tqF12a8lU1@uni-berlin.de>   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message news:<40A03D3B.EB115B61@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>... >  >>Bob Ceculski wrote:y >>: >>>I notice a slowdown on our alpha when a vms zip file is8 >>>"unzipped" ... is anyone aware of a priority problem? >>' >>On the chance that this *IS* legit...c >>< >>(de)Compressing data is an entirely CPU-intensive process. >>G >>CPU scheduling priority can be adjusted to minimize the impact, if it 9 >>becomes an issue (CPU upgrade would be another option).s >  > ; > this isn't on the compression part, it happens during the  > archiving message ..._  ? Does the zip file contain one large file or lots of small ones?   G I see a maximum of 10% cpu usage during an unzip operation on a 14,500 s< block zip file, which expands to 1495 files, a total of 25MB  	 PWS 600aui   Accounting information:fE Buffered I/O count:       4957      Peak working set size:       2640iE Direct I/O count:         8965      Peak virtual size:         171600 E Page faults:               402      Mounted volumes:                0aE Charged CPU time:0 00:00:08.23      Elapsed time:       0 00:02:31.34(  # Definitely not a resource hog here.   F Disk fragmentation or unzipping to a large directory could definitely  slow a system down of course.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 03:09:52 GMT.L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")" Subject: John Smith, please resend6 Message-ID: <00A31A53.3790C5B4@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>   Attention "John Smith":o  J I seem to have fumblefingered the note you sent me late last week.  Please re-send.   -- Alana -- 6O ===============================================================================-0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056LM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   940251O ===============================================================================A   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:03:50 -0400n# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> & Subject: Re: John Smith, please resend, Message-ID: <6vSdnRAogsv7ZD3d4p2dnA@igs.net>  H ""Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>A wrote in message news:00A31A53.3790C5B4@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU...R >X > Attention "John Smith":  >eL > I seem to have fumblefingered the note you sent me late last week.  Please
 > re-send.   Check your inbox.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:53:00 -0400 - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>f, Subject: Re: LIB$INITIALIZE: simple example?1 Message-ID: <57Cdnfyiwb4AIz3dRVn-uw@adelphia.com>    sms@antinode.org wrote:tH >    After a quick skim of "http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732final/5763/G > 5763pro_025.html#feature_get_index_sec", I thought it would be fun to-F > try something like the example using LIB$INITIALIZE to get the fancyE > initialization done on time.  Naturally, my attempt failed, with mytG > initialization function apparently never being called.  I assume thatoI > I'm missing something extremely obvious, but I'd be grateful if someonei > could point it out.n   Sample program is at:t  * http://encompasserve.org/~malmberg/python/  2 inittest.zip.  I think it has the sources with it.  C For the decc$features to work, they have to be executed before the T" decc$crtl_init() call is executed.  I If you are linking with a shared image that has a LIB$INITIALIZE section 9< and calls decc$crtl_init(), that can make it look like your % LIB$INITIALIZE section does not work.S  < Such shared images must be loaded dynamically to allow your  LIB$INITIALIZE section to work.e   -JohnO wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:03:30 -0500 (CDT)y From: sms@antinode.org, Subject: Re: LIB$INITIALIZE: simple example?) Message-ID: <04051112033028@antinode.org>a  - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>   8 > http://encompasserve.org/~malmberg/python/inittest.zip  ;    Thanks.  My problem appears to have been not getting theE? LIB$INITIALIZE PSECT loaded.  After a wider search, I found oneS  suggestion to add a link option:  / SYS$SHARE:STARLET.OLB /INCLUDE = LIB$INITIALIZE   2 And yours, to add the dummy reference to the code:   #pragma extern_model saveT /*3 ** Force a reference to LIB$INITIALIZE to ensure it  ** exists in the image.H */ int lib$initialize(void);-" #pragma extern_model strict_refdef( int lib_init_ref = (int) lib$initialize; #pragma extern_model restore  ;    I find the dummy reference scheme a bit tidier.  Thanks.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-orgn    Saint Paul  MN  55105-25479   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:41:27 GMTe# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)r, Subject: Re: LIB$INITIALIZE: simple example?1 Message-ID: <bf8oc.1223$km1.102@news.cpqcorp.net>   B In article <04051022411258@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org writes:G :   After a quick skim of "http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732final/5763/eF :5763pro_025.html#feature_get_index_sec", I thought it would be fun toE :try something like the example using LIB$INITIALIZE to get the fancy  :initialization done on time.M  G   I'd personally encourage avoiding the use of the lib$initialize psectPD   unless you really and specifically need the particular capability;G   unless and only if you need to initialize the module prior to gainingSF   control through normal called-routine means.  Initialization throughJ   normal means is (in my mind) almost always preferable to lib$initialize.  h* :/* (What does this stuff actually do?) */  I   It sets up a program section specifically known to the image activator.M    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqeN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.come   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2004 05:48:10 -0700% From: info@it-bcsb.de (Klaus-D. Bohn)r Subject: longest uptimek= Message-ID: <12fe110f.0405110448.18924720@posting.google.com>k   Hello all VMS lovers,   > im searching for the longest uptime from a VMS System/Cluster.  ? If have anyone of you a screen shot "show sys/noproc" and "showh cluster" please send it to me.   Thank you very much !t       Klaus-D. Bohno   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:57:47 -0400s' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>b Subject: RE: longest uptimemR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3144DC@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Klaus-D. Bohn [mailto:info@it-bcsb.de]=20y > Sent: May 11, 2004 8:48 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comc > Subject: longest uptimee >=20 > Hello all VMS lovers,h >=20@ > im searching for the longest uptime from a VMS System/Cluster. >=20A > If have anyone of you a screen shot "show sys/noproc" and "showu  > cluster" please send it to me. >=20 > Thank you very much !o >=20 >     Klaus-D. Bohna >=20   Klaus,  H As I recall, the hands down leader that I know of was the Irish NationalA Railway which had an application on an OpenVMS config (VMS V3.2 IeF believe?) that ran continuously for just over 17 years. Reps from thisF company were at a DECUS event about a year or two ago and talked about it.h  H Other members on this list have had cluster uptimes in the neighbourhood of 10 years.   Regardso  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax: 613-591-4477d Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcoms. (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2004 04:02:18 -0700. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)9 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Marketshare x Products Consolidations= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0405110302.72687382@posting.google.com>b  l "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message news:<aAQnc.5734$eH1.2950385@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>...9 > "Chuck Chopp" <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> wrote in messageh7 > news:YZNnc.102125$oN1.57175@bignews5.bellsouth.net... M > > IIRC, the OpenVMS 3rd party layered product market went through a massiveyI > > amount of consolidation over the past 5 to 7 years.  Don't Networking N > > Dynamics, Executive Sofware and Computer Associates pretty much own all of > > those products now?. > >S > F > We're still around selling and supporting JAMS, the world's best job > scheduler! > 6 > See http://www.mvpsi.com for additional information. >  > John Vottero > MVP Systems, Inc.       L Yes I know, but why dont you merge ? Because there is only one OVMS system,C so theres no need of the myriad of software houses and products !  7 I guess I am too comited to "consolidation" nowadays ! w     Regardss   FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:16:32 -0400B' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> 9 Subject: RE: OpenVMS Marketshare x Products ConsolidationoR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3144D8@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----: > From: Fabio Cardoso [mailto:fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br]=20 > Sent: May 11, 2004 7:02 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ; > Subject: Re: OpenVMS Marketshare x Products Consolidation  >=205 > "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message=20i= > news:<aAQnc.5734$eH1.2950385@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>...i; > > "Chuck Chopp" <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> wrote in messageb9 > > news:YZNnc.102125$oN1.57175@bignews5.bellsouth.net...i@ > > > IIRC, the OpenVMS 3rd party layered product market went=20 > through a massive,= > > > amount of consolidation over the past 5 to 7 years. =20n > Don't Networking< > > > Dynamics, Executive Sofware and Computer Associates=20 > pretty much own all of > > > those products now?b > > >r > >=20H > > We're still around selling and supporting JAMS, the world's best job > > scheduler! > >=208 > > See http://www.mvpsi.com for additional information. > >=20 > > John Vottero > > MVP Systems, Inc.y >=20 >=20 >=20B > Yes I know, but why don=B4t you merge ? Because there is only=20 > one OVMS system,I > so there=B4s no need of the myriad of software houses and products !=20a; > I guess I am too comited to "consolidation" nowadays !=20c >=20 >=20	 > Regardsf >=20 > FC   Fabio,  E If you are looking at consolidation (like almost all med-large size =lH businesses these days), then that is exactly why you would likely want =? to look at third party scheduler products like JAMS and other =eG perf/capacity planning/ workload mgmt / security products that are on =e the market.a  H When one consolidates, it becomes much more important to run your shop =J much more efficiently as the impact of a poorly managed system / cluster =G in a consolidated environment can be potentially much worse than in a =i distributed environment.=20n  H If a distributed system goes down, a job does not get run at the right =I time or a job runs away on a system, then the number of people impacted =eB is relatively small e.g. less than 100. If the same happens in a =G consolidated environment, then the number of people impacted could be =e greater than 1000+.k  H There is potentially huge savings in IT consolidation, but you need to =A do your homework and manage your new environment in a much more =t> proactive manner than in the past. If you make mistakes in a =J consolidated environment, your Business Units will be screaming "lets go =! back to the way it was before !!"U   :-)    Regardst  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant. HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:58:11 -0400c# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>c9 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Marketshare x Products Consolidation4, Message-ID: <YqudnQOAsL6OZT3dRVn-hQ@igs.net>  2 "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3144D8@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net...   > -----Original Message-----7 > From: Fabio Cardoso [mailto:fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br]l > Sent: May 11, 2004 7:02 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com>; > Subject: Re: OpenVMS Marketshare x Products Consolidationh >n2 > "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message= > news:<aAQnc.5734$eH1.2950385@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>...t; > > "Chuck Chopp" <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> wrote in messageg9 > > news:YZNnc.102125$oN1.57175@bignews5.bellsouth.net...n= > > > IIRC, the OpenVMS 3rd party layered product market went  > through a massives9 > > > amount of consolidation over the past 5 to 7 years.  > Don't Networking9 > > > Dynamics, Executive Sofware and Computer Associatese > pretty much own all of > > > those products now?i > > >e > >oH > > We're still around selling and supporting JAMS, the world's best job > > scheduler! > >c8 > > See http://www.mvpsi.com for additional information. > >n > > John Vottero > > MVP Systems, Inc.e >d >  >r= > Yes I know, but why dont you merge ? Because there is only  > one OVMS system,D > so theres no need of the myriad of software houses and products !8 > I guess I am too comited to "consolidation" nowadays ! >q >$	 > Regardsc >r > FC   Fabio,  C If you are looking at consolidation (like almost all med-large size I businesses these days), then that is exactly why you would likely want to,H look at third party scheduler products like JAMS and other perf/capacityC planning/ workload mgmt / security products that are on the market.h  K When one consolidates, it becomes much more important to run your shop muchtH more efficiently as the impact of a poorly managed system / cluster in aL consolidated environment can be potentially much worse than in a distributed environment.  K If a distributed system goes down, a job does not get run at the right timeOE or a job runs away on a system, then the number of people impacted isfJ relatively small e.g. less than 100. If the same happens in a consolidatedL environment, then the number of people impacted could be greater than 1000+.  I There is potentially huge savings in IT consolidation, but you need to dohF your homework and manage your new environment in a much more proactiveL manner than in the past. If you make mistakes in a consolidated environment,L your Business Units will be screaming "lets go back to the way it was before !!"l    B Nice synopsis Kerry, but you missed Fabio's point entirely. He was< suggesting that the 3rd-party ISV's consolidate (ie. merge).  J Given that the VMS market is small and that there are mostly small playersJ in the VMS ISV market, it makes some business sense (leaving the emotionalI and geographic issues aside for amoment) that some of these small players J merge. More marketing clout with organizations, lower admin costs, etc....K all the things that carly(tm)  holds dear to her cold heart. If you get big ! enough, the tail can wag the dog.   J If they got big enough in a key software area......imagine for a moment ifL Oracle decided, for whatever reason (even as far fetched as McNealy or GatesH paying them a lot - relative to the revenues) to 'retire' Oracle ClassicH and/or Rdb on VMS. I think you get the picture..... HP would just retire VMS.  E BTW - just came across a nice business opportunity where many turnkeycK systems can be sold - too bad Sybase IQ isn't available on VMS. That's whatOK happens when you don't advertise and expand your markets to keep your ISV'sr interested.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 05:45:30 GMTr- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>-+ Subject: OT: Worldcom/MCI/Capellas job cuts4@ Message-ID: <c02955f1eeb630e3fe600712cbfc140d@news.teranews.com>  L Capellas is about to axe 7000 jobs at the company formerly known as Worldcom& which ruined MCI when it purchased it.    H BTW, there ised to be a valued contributor to comp.os.vms from MCI (nameM escapes me). Does anyone know if he is still at MCI ? Do they still use VMS ?h@ Or did Worldcom succeed in pushing Windows down their throaths ?   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2004 23:43:08 -0700. From: shakeelj2k@yahoo.com (shakeel-ur-rehman)2 Subject: PPP and TCP/IP(UCX) configuration for ISP= Message-ID: <cb950e29.0405102243.68cfcc93@posting.google.com>   D I want to connect to my ISP that uses PPP and in windows 2000 I haveD setted to obtain IP automatically and Obtain automaticall DNS serverF address automatically.moreover there is also an setting of use defaultB gateway. Now please tell me how to connect to that ISP on Open VMS@ with the following settings and assignments. Kindly tell me whatE things are required like in interface and routing settings of the ucxo: configuration. like PPPD dial_out device name details etc.     i have following productst   PAMCC $ product show product< ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------5 PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    STATEn< ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------9 DEC AXPVMS DECNET_OSI V7.1          Full LP     Installed 9 DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-5           Full LP     Installeda9 DEC AXPVMS NS_NAV_EXPORT V3.3       Full LP     Installed,9 DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.1-2           Platform    Installedo9 DEC AXPVMS UCX V4.2-21              Full LP     Installedt9 DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.1-2               Oper System Installedi< ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------  
 6 items found     * licence list command out put is as follows   PAMCC $licence list-/ Press Ctrl/Z to exit, use arrow keys to scroll.:"  License Management Facility  V1.2  B  License Database File:       SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]LMF$LICENSE.LDB;1)  Created on:                   8-APR-1999 $  Created by user:             SYSTEM"  Created by LMF Version:      V1.2  $  -----------------------------------*  DECEVENT                     DIGITAL-MCSD!  NET-APP-SUP-150              DECc!  OPEN3D                       DECl!  OPENVMS-ALPHA                DECh!  OPENVMS-ALPHA-ADL            DECn!  OPENVMS-ALPHA-ADL            DECo  [End Of List]   PAMCC $ set host/ide $modem   F and then the following text appears when I dialed the ISP number using modem at command as followsg  . atdt 13145678 ; this is my ISP dial up number   4 ****************************************************4 *         BRAIN TELECOMMUNICATION LIMITED.         *4 *            AUTHORIZED PERSONNEL ONLY             *4 *     For network issue  ( noc@brain.net.pk  )     *4 *     Telephone          ( +92 42 111222888  )     *4 *     Fax                ( +92 42 7832039    )     *4 ****************************************************     User Access Verification   Username: pamcca	 Password:  Entering PPP mode.5 Async interface address is unnumbered (FastEthernet0)d- Your IP address is 0.0.0.0. MTU is 1500 bytes  Header compression is on. C then the following characters are received  i do not know what thisi
 actually meano   ~}#!}!4} "}"}&} }*} }r= }%}&S}'}"}(}"}1}$}%}3}*}!as53004="~~}#!}!5} "}"}&} }*} } . }%}&S}'}"}(}"}1}$}%}3}*}!as53004^b~~}#!}4     modem is connected to comport.    * the interface command output is as follows> currently i have PC linked through LAN with CUTEFTP to OpenVMS   PAMCC $ ucx show interface/FULLl  Interface: WE0t?    IP_Addr: 192.68.0.1        NETWRK: 255.255.255.0     BRDCST:  192.68.0.255E                        Ethernet_Addr: AA-00-04-00-19-08    MTU:  1500-      Flags: UP BRDCST NOTRL RUNu5                                   RECEIVE        SENDn5    Packets                            732         213a5      IP packets                       160         205M5      Broadcast IP packets             568           07)      Trailer 1 IP packets               07)      Trailer 2 IP packets               0c5      ARP packets                        0           4 5      Broadcast ARP packets              4           4y    Drops5      IP packets                         0           0w5      ARP packets                        0           0l	    Errors 5      Hardware                           0           0i5      Software                           0           0u)    Restarting attempts                  0p& Successful restarts                  0    Interface: LO0c?    IP_Addr: 127.0.0.1         NETWRK: 255.0.0.0         BRDCST: E                        Ethernet_Addr:                      MTU: 65535p      Flags: UP LOOPp5                                   RECEIVE        SEND 5    Packets                              0           0q5      IP packets                         0           0r5      Broadcast IP packets               0           0c)      Trailer 1 IP packets               0d)      Trailer 2 IP packets               0r5      ARP packets                        0           0n5      Broadcast ARP packets              0           0e    Drops5      IP packets                         0           0e5      ARP packets                        0           0v	    Errors 5      Hardware                           0           0 5      Software                           0           0y)    Restarting attempts                  0s)    Successful restarts                  0r    E kindly let me know how to set tcp/ip and PPP setting for my ISP i.e IaB only know how to install on windows plateform. kindly tell me like1 what will be interfaces for ISP routing details .h8 what is mean by the device name in the following command2 is this is to be known through ISP or it is modem.  $ PPPd dial_out device_name     thanks t   shakeelJ   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:44:14 GMTt+ From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie)"6 Subject: Re: PPP and TCP/IP(UCX) configuration for ISP4 Message-ID: <OM4oc.86534$hR1.62639@fe2.texas.rr.com>  / shakeel-ur-rehman (shakeelj2k@yahoo.com) wrote: F : I want to connect to my ISP that uses PPP and in windows 2000 I haveF : setted to obtain IP automatically and Obtain automaticall DNS serverH : address automatically.moreover there is also an setting of use defaultD : gateway. Now please tell me how to connect to that ISP on Open VMSB : with the following settings and assignments. Kindly tell me whatG : things are required like in interface and routing settings of the ucxr< : configuration. like PPPD dial_out device name details etc. :   F One alternate solution is a device like the Actiontec Dual PC "Modem",< which is actually a NAT router with a built-in analog modem:  J    http://www.actiontec.com/products/modems/dual_pcmodem/dpm_overview.html$    Product Info - 56K External Modem  M    http://www.actiontec.com/products/modems/dual_pcmodem/dpm_specifications.hd$    Product Info - 56K External Modem  @ This would allow you to connect your VMS and Windows systems and* the Actiontec Dual PC Modem with ethernet.  A The Actiontec Dual PC Modem also supports PPPoE if you have a DSL  connection.A       --Jerry Leslie9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2004 22:14:52 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)'! Subject: Re: Request for new SMTP 3 Message-ID: <HPp92CcAbv0J@eisner.encompasserve.org>v  f In article <409FCEAC.6FD5E5E3@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes:@ > It would be real nice to have a way to not bounce any message.I > Especially since most of the spam uses forged headers etc...the serverseJ > then get into a bounce the bounced message loop.  the only way out is to@ > stop mail and delete all of the bounced messages in the queue. > 5 > either a parameter in the .CONFIG file or a logicalt' > TCPIP$BOUNCE_MESSAGES  {TRUE | FALSE}e  9 The proper technique is to reject during the SMTP dialog.s   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2004 07:28:38 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) * Subject: Re: Reserved TCP/IP Port Numbers?3 Message-ID: <6pG7rSK42LPk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <wrudnYfuwrE0KwLdRVn-jA@metrocast.net>, "BillC" <bclark_at_lrgh.org> writes:H? > am trying to configure an interface between two Alpha systemsdE > and am not successful in selecting ports to assign to the messages. ? > i understand certain port numbers are reserved (TELNET, etc.)o; > but am wondering if a full list of reserved ports exists.  > thanks in advance.  F    That's what the RFCs are for.  Check RFC 1060 for assigned numbers.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:34:43 GMT 5 From: brad@rabbit.dnsalias.org (Bradford J. Hamilton)r* Subject: Re: Reserved TCP/IP Port Numbers?. Message-ID: <7w5oc.71093$Ik.5183189@attbi_s53>  q In article <6pG7rSK42LPk@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:aX !In article <wrudnYfuwrE0KwLdRVn-jA@metrocast.net>, "BillC" <bclark_at_lrgh.org> writes:@ !> am trying to configure an interface between two Alpha systemsF !> and am not successful in selecting ports to assign to the messages.@ !> i understand certain port numbers are reserved (TELNET, etc.)< !> but am wondering if a full list of reserved ports exists. !> thanks in advance.u ! G !   That's what the RFCs are for.  Check RFC 1060 for assigned numbers.  !S   The RFC's have been replaced:e  ) http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3232.txt'   with:a  , http://www.iana.org/assignments/port-numbers  J __________________________________________________________________________A Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own"oK bMradAhamiPltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt     "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-' e0                                          with @"   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:15:30 -0400t" From: "BillC" <bclark_at_lrgh.org>* Subject: Re: Reserved TCP/IP Port Numbers?2 Message-ID: <_KCdnWjEvLe1cz3dRVn-uw@metrocast.net>   many thanks to all.oB problem is still extant but now at least i know what to  avoid....  - "BillC" <bclark_at_lrgh.org> wrote in message , news:wrudnYfuwrE0KwLdRVn-jA@metrocast.net...? > am trying to configure an interface between two Alpha systems,E > and am not successful in selecting ports to assign to the messages.s? > i understand certain port numbers are reserved (TELNET, etc.)f; > but am wondering if a full list of reserved ports exists.e > thanks in advance. >i >m   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:07:37 GMTb- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>A* Subject: Re: Reserved TCP/IP Port Numbers?@ Message-ID: <3086a2ee2d10e3a2e962d8b2e335fb14@news.teranews.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:H >    That's what the RFCs are for.  Check RFC 1060 for assigned numbers.  > Actually, assigned numbers have been moved from "rfc" to IANA.    http://www.iana.org/numbers.html? gives you the list of assigned numbers iana is responsible for.e  , http://www.iana.org/assignments/port-numbers, gives you the list of official port numbers.  N Note however that it seems that microsoft has abused this list by reusing someL ports for its own purposes, as demonstrated by recent faults in widnows that allow viri to proliferate.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2004 00:57:17 -0700( From: m-eismann@gmx.net (Martin Eismann)$ Subject: Seeking for an FTP-symbiont= Message-ID: <9b3c6484.0405102357.391fbbf9@posting.google.com>    Hello dear VMS-fans!  < OpenVMS 7.3-2 with HP's TCP/IP services 5.4 (latest version)  ; We need to FTP hundreds of files per day to some well-knownlE Unix-servers in a big network. Now I assume to set up some VMS-queuestF (one per Unix-server) which could do the FTP-client-action. VMS-queues# would be a great idea, wouldn't it?y  D Does anybody of you know if there's a FTP-symbiont for VMS available on this planet?o  D Certainly it would be possible to write an own FTP-symbiont. I wouldF appreciate Pascal-sources (bec. I'm not familiar with C or C++), but ID had never seen some FTP-libraries and symbiont-sources for Pascal...= and - as far as I know - FTP is not as easy as other IP-basede
 protocols!   best regards Martin   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:42:30 +0100 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>a( Subject: Re: Seeking for an FTP-symbiont) Message-ID: <2gbi0lFrvnmU1@uni-berlin.de>r   Martin Eismann wrote:t > Hello dear VMS-fans! > > > OpenVMS 7.3-2 with HP's TCP/IP services 5.4 (latest version) > = > We need to FTP hundreds of files per day to some well-knownvG > Unix-servers in a big network. Now I assume to set up some VMS-queuesoH > (one per Unix-server) which could do the FTP-client-action. VMS-queues% > would be a great idea, wouldn't it?  > F > Does anybody of you know if there's a FTP-symbiont for VMS available > on this planet?  > F > Certainly it would be possible to write an own FTP-symbiont. I wouldH > appreciate Pascal-sources (bec. I'm not familiar with C or C++), but IF > had never seen some FTP-libraries and symbiont-sources for Pascal...? > and - as far as I know - FTP is not as easy as other IP-basedo > protocols!  # Check out EXECSYMB, available from:o  = http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?EXECSYMBa  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2004 10:13:18 +0200. From: huber@NOBODY-mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber)( Subject: Re: Seeking for an FTP-symbiont+ Message-ID: <BNE8P$oAkk1K@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>e  h In article <9b3c6484.0405102357.391fbbf9@posting.google.com>, m-eismann@gmx.net (Martin Eismann) writes:> > OpenVMS 7.3-2 with HP's TCP/IP services 5.4 (latest version)= > We need to FTP hundreds of files per day to some well-known G > Unix-servers in a big network. Now I assume to set up some VMS-queues1H > (one per Unix-server) which could do the FTP-client-action. VMS-queues% > would be a great idea, wouldn't it?0F > Does anybody of you know if there's a FTP-symbiont for VMS available > on this planet?eF > Certainly it would be possible to write an own FTP-symbiont. I wouldH > appreciate Pascal-sources (bec. I'm not familiar with C or C++), but IF > had never seen some FTP-libraries and symbiont-sources for Pascal...? > and - as far as I know - FTP is not as easy as other IP-basedf > protocols!  4 At present I have no access to the distribution, but: on previous VMS or UCX (TCPIP ?) there was a product FTSO,6 I think it stands for "File Transfer Spooling Option".1 Look in the HP OpenVMS pages if still available .c    t -- m6    Joseph Huber, Muenchen  http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:10:38 +1000 1 From: David J McKenzie <david@mckenziefamily.biz>l( Subject: Re: Seeking for an FTP-symbiontC Message-ID: <40a0c2b8$0$74028$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>C   Joseph Huber wrote:I  ? > In article <9b3c6484.0405102357.391fbbf9@posting.google.com>,d, > m-eismann@gmx.net (Martin Eismann) writes:? >> OpenVMS 7.3-2 with HP's TCP/IP services 5.4 (latest version)0> >> We need to FTP hundreds of files per day to some well-knownH >> Unix-servers in a big network. Now I assume to set up some VMS-queuesI >> (one per Unix-server) which could do the FTP-client-action. VMS-queuesc& >> would be a great idea, wouldn't it?G >> Does anybody of you know if there's a FTP-symbiont for VMS availableg >> on this planet?G >> Certainly it would be possible to write an own FTP-symbiont. I wouldlI >> appreciate Pascal-sources (bec. I'm not familiar with C or C++), but IrG >> had never seen some FTP-libraries and symbiont-sources for Pascal...e@ >> and - as far as I know - FTP is not as easy as other IP-based
 >> protocols!a > 6 > At present I have no access to the distribution, but< > on previous VMS or UCX (TCPIP ?) there was a product FTSO,8 > I think it stands for "File Transfer Spooling Option".3 > Look in the HP OpenVMS pages if still available .- >  >  t  . may also have appeared on the freeware CD IIRC -- ?. David McKenzie  david@rugby.mckenziefamily.biz   remove rugby   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 04:35:53 +0000 (UTC)hP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: SHOW ROUTE $ Message-ID: <c7pl78$aqd$2@online.de>  = In article <a14deb10.0405101648.3ee5a4e0@posting.google.com>,e" ckchiu@hotmail.com (Bill) writes:   ~ > helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote in message news:<c7i5qm$2gp$2@online.de>...A > > In article <a14deb10.0405072220.2860c2f2@posting.google.com>,r& > > ckchiu@hotmail.com (Bill) writes:  > > I > > > The TCPIP SHOW ROUTE command shows the routes with type AH, AN, DH,iJ > > > DN, PH and PN.  I know H is Host route, N is Network route, and P isF > > > Permanent route.  What do A and D mean, Active and Dynamic?  Any" > > > differences between A and D? > > : > > TCPIP HELP SHOW ROUTE tells you what you need to know. > D > HELP says A - Automatic route (generated by SET INTERFACE) whereasG > TCPIP Management manual says A - Active?  Which one is correct?  What  > does A actually mean?   ' What version do you have?  Here is 5.3:   E        Displays the permanent or volatile routes database. To displayl<        the permanent database, use the /PERMANENT qualifier.  G        Looks up the destination you specify first in the hosts database @        and then, if this lookup fails, in the networks database.  5        Displays the following routes and their types:   B        o  A - Active route (created manually or associated with an           interface)  G        o  D - Dynamic route (created by ROUTED or GATED routing daemon)   ,        o  H - Host route (a route to a host)  2        o  N - Network route (a route to a network)  2        o  P - Permanent (from the routes database)  A > No mention about D in HELP.  What does D mean?  How do D routesi > generated?  > See above.  TCPIP$CONFIG asks you if you want dynamic routing.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:29:48 -0400 * From: Kenneth.Robinson@VerizonWireless.com( Subject: RE: Suggestion for TYPE command" Message-ID: <6207740@MVB.SAIC.COM>   > -----Original Message-----/ > From: Hein [mailto:hein.nomail@hp.nomail.com]I$ > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 3:28 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com * > Subject: Re: Suggestion for TYPE command >  > H > That would be best solved by NOT overloading TYPE, but by having a CUT > command like any UNIX box. >  > $CUT -c 10-50 | MORE > ( > Can a  Bash/Posix environment do this? >  >   J The Bash in the GNV environment installed on 7.3-2 can do that. I did just did the following:   bash$ cut -c 10-50 login.com  nover) de() .eqs. "INTERACTIVE" then set ter/inqn) de() .eqs. "NETWORK" then set proc/priv=aC og sysuaf sys$system:sysuaf.datn' og rightslist sys$system:rightslist.datE# og netproxy sys$system:netproxy.dat % og net$proxy sys$system:net$proxy.dath) mpt="''f$edi(f$gets("scsnode"),"lowercase  == typ/pag nl: = typ/pag=(sc,sa)  = $authorize  :== @sys$login:logout) n :== @sys$system:shutdown 0 shutdown yesJ)   :== @sys$system:shutdown 0 shutdown yesj" og lynx_dir dkb100:[freeware.lynx]) og dcl$path dkb100:[freeware.lynx],mysql_d) og phpshr apache$common:[php.bin]phpshr.e  s$manager:tcpip$define_commandsh u:[lib]gnv_setup  proc/par=ext/uni=by    
 Ken Robinson a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:44:01 -0400e' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>f* Subject: RE: SUN fails to advertise VMS...R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3144DA@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]=20o > Sent: May 10, 2004 4:57 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ( > Subject: SUN fails to advertise VMS... >=20B > A banner appeared on CNET with the headline "HP Customers are=20 > migrating to SUN".0 > One of the rare times I actually click on ads. >=20 > It lead to this: >=20' > http://www.sun.com/emrkt/change4good/$ >=20= > They mention HP-UX and Tru64, but fail to mention VMS or=20o > alpha. One more proofIH > that SUN doesn't want VMS to succeed and purposefully ignores the veryB > products which helped launch Sun in the first place (where do=20 > you think SUNs# > got its first customers from ???)- >=20A > So, Andrew, how do you explain Sun ignoring its cash cow VMS=20@ > ? Or has SUN* > stopped acquiring former VMS customers ? >=20 >=20 >=20 > :-)2   JF,o  D Perhaps their ad campaign is a reaction to Customer experiences like this:s  9 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2004/040211a.htmll1 "Belkin Plugs in HP Superdome System; Unplugs SunA  G Manufacturer taps HP to replace Sun Solaris and consolidate information ; technology infrastructure; Performance soars 250 percent=20Z! PALO ALTO, Calif., Feb. 11, 2004"e   :-) :-)t   Regards    / Kerrye   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:57:17 +0100*O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>c* Subject: Re: SUN fails to advertise VMS...0 Message-ID: <c7qijd$guf$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote: R > A banner appeared on CNET with the headline "HP Customers are migrating to SUN".0 > One of the rare times I actually click on ads. >  > It lead to this: > ' > http://www.sun.com/emrkt/change4good/a > P > They mention HP-UX and Tru64, but fail to mention VMS or alpha. One more proofH > that SUN doesn't want VMS to succeed and purposefully ignores the veryM > products which helped launch Sun in the first place (where do you think SUNs# > got its first customers from ???)2 >   F Sun isn't ignoring VMS it just isn't a very large potential market for Sun.  = We now seem to be in a position where the majority of OpenVMSe? customers who are going to move have made the move, new OpenVMShF sales as the market share numbers show are tiny (50 million a quarter)A and the rest of the OpenVMS installed base is hanging on by theiri/ finger nails or the death whichever you prefer.c      K > So, Andrew, how do you explain Sun ignoring its cash cow VMS ? Or has SUNh* > stopped acquiring former VMS customers ? >   F In reality there are very few OpenVMS customers left to aquire who can be easily aquired.  C I used to advise an investment bank, they have moved all but one ofyC OpenVMS apps off OpenVMS onto Solaris/AIX, the one app that remainsiB will move off in 2-3 years because a new app is being developed inE house on UNIX which will replace the functionality currently providede% by the last remaining OpenVMS system.   E The app running on the OpenVMS box which was developed by a 3rd party-D will not be migrated onto another platform it will simply get turned off.  ? Sun's OpenVMS,, HP-UX and Tru64 programs are orientated towards7@ customers who can port their app from those platforms to Solaris? in the case of OpenVMS this may require, DCL etc emulators. ButkA the programs are not orientated towards customers who cannot portr: the app because it isn't theirs as in the banking example.  F Instead Sun has worked with the ISV's to ensure that their developmentC and porting platform is Solaris, this is also the case with the 3rd-B party app in the bank, it used to only run on OpenVMS, it now runsD on Solaris. However in this case the bank has decided to replace the? app with one developed in-house and that is being done on UNIX.    regardsi Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:31:14 -04004# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> * Subject: Re: SUN fails to advertise VMS..., Message-ID: <OJadnUgft7cvfj3dRVn-tA@igs.net>  2 "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3144DA@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net...   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com] > Sent: May 10, 2004 4:57 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ( > Subject: SUN fails to advertise VMS... >i? > A banner appeared on CNET with the headline "HP Customers arei > migrating to SUN".0 > One of the rare times I actually click on ads. >n > It lead to this: >g' > http://www.sun.com/emrkt/change4good/  >t: > They mention HP-UX and Tru64, but fail to mention VMS or > alpha. One more proofeH > that SUN doesn't want VMS to succeed and purposefully ignores the very? > products which helped launch Sun in the first place (where do' > you think SUNl# > got its first customers from ???)- >-> > So, Andrew, how do you explain Sun ignoring its cash cow VMS > ? Or has SUN* > stopped acquiring former VMS customers ? >o >t >o > :-)t   JF,e  D Perhaps their ad campaign is a reaction to Customer experiences like this:<  9 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2004/040211a.html@1 "Belkin Plugs in HP Superdome System; Unplugs Sunu  G Manufacturer taps HP to replace Sun Solaris and consolidate informationw8 technology infrastructure; Performance soars 250 percent! PALO ALTO, Calif., Feb. 11, 2004"a     Kerry,K You know how this game is played...the announcements NEVER mention that theyD technology which was displaced was years old, so of course the newer hardware performs 250% faster.  I Was Belkin replacing a collection of Sun 3's running on a 10BaseT networkbL with 2400 rpm disk drives or a Sun server of vintage 2003 running a SAN with@ 18,000 rpm scsi drives in RAID 5 on a SAN with a fiber backbone?  F Doesn't matter which vendor is issuing press releases like these - theA performance numbers are bogus because it isn't an apple-to-applest comparison.   H HP could have issued the same sort of press release touting a customer'sJ improvement of 250% by purchasing the latest Alphaservers vs. the throwing out the latest Itanics.R   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:48:45 +01009O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>g* Subject: Re: SUN fails to advertise VMS...0 Message-ID: <c7qp4d$jbd$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   John Smith wrote:b >  >  > JF,u > F > Perhaps their ad campaign is a reaction to Customer experiences like > this:n >   > Sadly you would be incorrect, Sun started the HP Away campaign; before HP started their Solaris migarion campaign so unlessm9 you have developed a working time machine the reaction is@ all the other way arround.; > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2004/040211a.html=3 > "Belkin Plugs in HP Superdome System; Unplugs Suno > I > Manufacturer taps HP to replace Sun Solaris and consolidate informationv: > technology infrastructure; Performance soars 250 percent# > PALO ALTO, Calif., Feb. 11, 2004"r >   G Last time I looked Belkin were using a Sun E6500 and E4500 so lets justjC hope that it was a really really tiny SuperDome that delivered 250%aE better throughput. Being 250% faster than a system thats over 5 years E old and having a TCO thats lower than a system thats over 5 years oldo1 isn't that impressive its what you should expect.o     Regardso Andrew Harrison  >  > Kerry,M > You know how this game is played...the announcements NEVER mention that the F > technology which was displaced was years old, so of course the newer  > hardware performs 250% faster. > K > Was Belkin replacing a collection of Sun 3's running on a 10BaseT networkoN > with 2400 rpm disk drives or a Sun server of vintage 2003 running a SAN withB > 18,000 rpm scsi drives in RAID 5 on a SAN with a fiber backbone? > H > Doesn't matter which vendor is issuing press releases like these - theC > performance numbers are bogus because it isn't an apple-to-applesr
 > comparison.i > J > HP could have issued the same sort of press release touting a customer'sL > improvement of 250% by purchasing the latest Alphaservers vs. the throwing > out the latest Itanics.s >  >    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:17:45 +0000 (UTC)hP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)0 Subject: Re: TCPIP SH HOST and MC TCPIP$NSLOOKUP$ Message-ID: <c7q989$std$1@online.de>  C In article <8bb449adede9747da68b6397421974b0@news.teranews.com>, JFn- Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: n  1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:sC > > server.  That is as it should be.  But why should the answer be=L > > "non-authoritative?"  Normally, that means that it is using a(n expired)J > > cached value and hasn't actually verified the address through the full > > chain of command.  > 6 > Nop. It means that it is using a valid cached entry.   OK.-  H > If your VMS DNS Server is setup with a list for "forwarders", then theM > non-authroitative answer may come from your own local DNS cache, or that oft > your ISP's DNS servers.s  G I don't have my own DNS server; I use those from my ISP, so presumably e the latter.3   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 04:33:46 +0000 (UTC)aP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)0 Subject: Re: TCPIP SH HOST and MC TCPIP$NSLOOKUP$ Message-ID: <c7pl3a$aqd$1@online.de>  C In article <cfa3c79386361ec233bd25fbaeb14d0d@news.teranews.com>, JFn- Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: r  1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:p> > > I sometimes observe that TCPIP SHOW HOST works fine but MCJ > > TCPIP$NSLOOKUP doesn't, which is puzzling since in some sense they are8 > > doing the same thing (querying a remote DNS server). > O > TCPIP SHOW HOST first queries the local host database, and if not found, thenv  > queries the remote DNS server. > J > So if you have a host defined only in the local database (with TCPIP SET2 > HOST), then SHOW HOST will work, NSLOOKUP won't.  G Sorry, should have mentioned: I'm looking up a system NOT in the local a	 database.o  H At the moment, with NSLOOKUP it takes much longer than usual, using the H same name server as TCPIP SHOW HOST (normally, both commands are almost : instantaneous), then returns a "Non-authoritative answer".   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 05:39:04 +0000 (UTC)dP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)0 Subject: Re: TCPIP SH HOST and MC TCPIP$NSLOOKUP$ Message-ID: <c7poto$jf9$1@online.de>  D In article <c7pl3a$aqd$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de3 (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: a  E > In article <cfa3c79386361ec233bd25fbaeb14d0d@news.teranews.com>, JFn/ > Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:   > 3 > > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:d@ > > > I sometimes observe that TCPIP SHOW HOST works fine but MCL > > > TCPIP$NSLOOKUP doesn't, which is puzzling since in some sense they are: > > > doing the same thing (querying a remote DNS server). > > Q > > TCPIP SHOW HOST first queries the local host database, and if not found, theni" > > queries the remote DNS server. > > L > > So if you have a host defined only in the local database (with TCPIP SET4 > > HOST), then SHOW HOST will work, NSLOOKUP won't. > I > Sorry, should have mentioned: I'm looking up a system NOT in the local t > database.s > J > At the moment, with NSLOOKUP it takes much longer than usual, using the J > same name server as TCPIP SHOW HOST (normally, both commands are almost < > instantaneous), then returns a "Non-authoritative answer".  E Here's what's going on---I'm still puzzled.  I have six name servers VG defined in TCPIP, both in the volatile database and on disk (I haven't VF changed anything since the startup, so they are the same).  The first  one is timing out:  N *** Can't find server name for address 212.185.253.70: No response from server  B and both TCPIP$NSLOOKUP and TCPIP SHOW DEVICE are using the second? server.  That is as it should be.  But why should the answer becH "non-authoritative?"  Normally, that means that it is using a(n expired)G cached value and hasn't actually verified the address through the full tE chain of command.  In that case, a warning is in order.  I suppose a  B warning is OK if it can't find the first name server it queries.  ( However, the two things are independent.  D Since I get the "non-authoritative answer" for ALL queries, and I amE sure that they are authoritative (for example, changes with small TTLwA values show up very quickly, so I'm sure that those responses aree? authoritative), here is what I think is happening: if the first C name-server queried doesn't respond, TCPIP$NSLOOKUP gives a warning@> about this (which is fine) then ALWAYS says that the result isC non-authoritative, even though it probably is (which is not OK; of e> course it should give a warning if the response is really not  authoritative).u  F Perhaps someone who runs a name server can put it first in the list ofE name servers to be queried, temporarily take the name server offline, F and thus verify that if the first name server queried doesn't respond,= the bogus "non-authoritative answer" appears in the output of- TCPIP$NSLOOKUP.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 05:48:15 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>I0 Subject: Re: TCPIP SH HOST and MC TCPIP$NSLOOKUP@ Message-ID: <8bb449adede9747da68b6397421974b0@news.teranews.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:iA > server.  That is as it should be.  But why should the answer beeJ > "non-authoritative?"  Normally, that means that it is using a(n expired)H > cached value and hasn't actually verified the address through the full > chain of command.   4 Nop. It means that it is using a valid cached entry.  F If your VMS DNS Server is setup with a list for "forwarders", then theK non-authroitative answer may come from your own local DNS cache, or that of- your ISP's DNS servers.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:52:11 GMTY1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>-0 Subject: Re: TCPIP SH HOST and MC TCPIP$NSLOOKUP2 Message-ID: <40A0E90C.78C8272B@firstdbasource.com>   JF Mezei wrote:u  1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: C > > server.  That is as it should be.  But why should the answer beoL > > "non-authoritative?"  Normally, that means that it is using a(n expired)J > > cached value and hasn't actually verified the address through the full > > chain of command.- >-6 > Nop. It means that it is using a valid cached entry. >dH > If your VMS DNS Server is setup with a list for "forwarders", then theM > non-authroitative answer may come from your own local DNS cache, or that of  > your ISP's DNS servers.E  L Philip, you will get "non-authoritative" from any DNS server that is not theN primary/secondary DNS server for the domain.  When I look up my domain name, ID get a non-auth answer from my ISP DNS servers.  If I do the nslookup> -query=any, it will tell you who has the authoritative answer.  5 ALPHA1>MAUSTIN>MAUSTIN]$ nslookup  firstdbasource.com 7 Server:  dns1.ksc2mo.sbcglobal.net  <<my ISP DNS server  Address:  151.164.8.201o   Non-authoritative answer:e Name:    firstdbasource.comI Address:  68.91.200.220i  ? ALPHA1>MAUSTIN>MAUSTIN]$ nslookup -query=any firstdbasource.comd" Server:  dns1.ksc2mo.sbcglobal.net Address:  151.164.8.201*   Non-authoritative answer:E8 firstdbasource.com      internet address = 68.91.200.2205 firstdbasource.com      nameserver = ns1.zoneedit.com(5 firstdbasource.com      nameserver = ns4.zoneedit.com+  ( Authoritative answers can be found from:5 firstdbasource.com      nameserver = ns4.zoneedit.com*5 firstdbasource.com      nameserver = ns1.zoneedit.comi  K My DynamicDNS provider is zoneedit.com and they have the only authoritativer answer.n   Michael Austin.e   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2004 07:34:46 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n@ Subject: Re: VAXstation M3100 M38, EtherNet AUI Port not working3 Message-ID: <HyofqAEDVPiJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <eef019aa.0405101033.34eeddc6@posting.google.com>, google@thater.net (Guido Thater) writes:> > A few days ago I started to resurrect an old VAX 3100 M38. I; > successfully installed VMS 7.2, MultiNet and other stuff.eC > Unfortunatly, I am unable to use TCP/IP. Multinet doesn't give an54 > error-messages, so I went into the Boot Diag-Mode. > ? > TEST 50 gives me an "?? NI 0011.700E   Ethernet AUI port, notB6 > connected.", and I am not sure what to do with that.  G    IIRC there is a switch on those systems that chooses between AUI and =    thin wire.  Verify that you're not set to thin-wire (BNC).d > E > Is there a way to find out wether my adapter is broken or the whole F > Ethernet-Port? Is a special Adapter needed? BTW, what stands SQE forF > (there's a Dip-Switch on the Adapter, I tried both positions without > success)?   A    Assuming you're connecting to a 10BaseT hub, you want SQE off. :    SQE is usefull only on a thinwire segment with no hubs.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 21:34:27 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>' Subject: Re: VMS mentioned in the pressr5 Message-ID: <40A03BB3.4FA9CBD@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>d   Alex Daniels wrote:E > J > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:6I8j$HhfpGAI@eisner.encompasserve.org... < > > In article <c7gf7h$kar$1@news.wplus.net>, "Alex Daniels"1 > <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> writes:  > > >kJ > > > They can not however buy the box without an OS or "with a prerelease	 > version  > > > of OpenVMS 8.1." > > >a > > L > >    For most customers, if they can put it on the purchase order, that is > >    "with". > L > Sure, but I'm still paying something towards an OS that I don't want. If IL > could buy the Itanium box without an OS (then get VMS on top) or with just' > VMS to start with, than thats 'with'.  > N > Buying it with another OS and then purchasing VMS as well on top, isn't with > to me.  - More fforts to collect "Micro$hit" Taxes, eh?p   --   David J. DachteraS dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/y   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2004 07:37:58 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: VMS mentioned in the press 3 Message-ID: <BqNuy2mvl8HK@eisner.encompasserve.org>$  i In article <c7p1sq$133o$1@news.wplus.net>, "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> writes:0  N > Buying it with another OS and then purchasing VMS as well on top, isn't with > to me.  2    Why do you think the VMS 8.1 CD is only $75 US?   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2004 07:40:05 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)' Subject: Re: VMS mentioned in the pressd= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0405110640.7378d5f8@posting.google.com>   } "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message news:<40A03BB3.4FA9CBD@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>...P > Alex Daniels wrote:e > > L > > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:6I8j$HhfpGAI@eisner.encompasserve.org...o> > > > In article <c7gf7h$kar$1@news.wplus.net>, "Alex Daniels"2 >  <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> writes: > > > > L > > > > They can not however buy the box without an OS or "with a prerelease
 >  version > > > > of OpenVMS 8.1." > > > >m > > >mN > > >    For most customers, if they can put it on the purchase order, that is > > >    "with". > > N > > Sure, but I'm still paying something towards an OS that I don't want. If IN > > could buy the Itanium box without an OS (then get VMS on top) or with just) > > VMS to start with, than thats 'with'.P > > P > > Buying it with another OS and then purchasing VMS as well on top, isn't with
 > > to me. > / > More fforts to collect "Micro$hit" Taxes, eh?-   Money for nothing!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:36:40 -0400l# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>w' Subject: Re: VMS mentioned in the presse, Message-ID: <x_qdnbBP3rJleT3dRVn-sw@igs.net>  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:BqNuy2mvl8HK@eisner.encompasserve.org...t; > In article <c7p1sq$133o$1@news.wplus.net>, "Alex Daniels"s/ <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> writes:t > K > > Buying it with another OS and then purchasing VMS as well on top, isn'te with
 > > to me. > 4 >    Why do you think the VMS 8.1 CD is only $75 US?  = It's just another psychological impediment to purchasing VMS.L   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:25:42 +0100-) From: Tony Arnold <tony.arnold@man.ac.uk>0 Subject: Re: XDMP and TCPIP 5.4i- Message-ID: <c7q2m6$1kmo$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>u   Hans Vlems wrote:C: > "Tony Arnold" <tony.arnold@man.ac.uk> schreef in bericht) > news:c7nvs0$2hpp$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk...d > H >>I've just upgraded ny Compaq XP-1000 systen to OpenVMS 7.3-2 and TCPIP> >>5.4. XDMP used to work fine, but now it has stopped working. >>E >>I can make the intitial XDMP connection and I get the login window,rJ >>however after logging in, something sets the security so on the X serverE >>so that no client can talk to it including the system I just loggedt: >>into. I just get the hour glass cursor and nothing else. >>H >>For information, the X server end is Cygwin's X11 distribution runningI >>on Windows XP, however, this works perfectly on a 7.3-1/5.3 VMS system./ >> >>Any ideas anyone?- >> >>Tony.0 >  > K > IIRC there must be a file called ACCESS.TXT in sys$specific:[tcpip$xdmp].e- > Has it been overwritten or replaced by 5.4?   G Thanks, but yes this file does exist and has a line with a * in so any rI client should be able to connect. I think if this was not there, I would AF not even get the login screen. It is after I log in that the security  gets screwed up.   Tony.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:08:26 +0100a) From: Tony Arnold <tony.arnold@man.ac.uk>a Subject: Re: XDMP and TCPIP 5.4w- Message-ID: <c7q56a$1mk5$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>n  G Here is some more information on this problem. The log file created by .5 CDE in my SYS$LOGIN directory contains the following:s  E $ write sys$output "Executing mcr cde$system_defaults:[bin]dtsession"_0 Executing mcr cde$system_defaults:[bin]dtsession $ write sys$output ""o  ( $ mcr cde$system_defaults:[bin]dtsession8 X Toolkit Warning: Cannot convert string "-dt-interface  user-medium-r-normal-s*-# *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*" to type FontStruct-) X Toolkit Warning: Cannot convert string 1' "-*-Menu-Medium-R-Normal--*-120-*-*-P-*l -ISO8859-1" to type FontStruct8 X Toolkit Warning: Cannot convert string "-dt-interface  user-medium-r-normal-s*-# *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*" to type FontStruct ) X Toolkit Warning: Cannot convert string  ' "-*-Menu-Medium-R-Normal--*-120-*-*-P-*e -ISO8859-1" to type FontStruct7 Warning: sm.num_hosts is 5 but sm.host_list has 1 hostsc0 Xlib: connection to "_WSA445:" refused by server Xlib: No protocol specifiedi   $ write sys$output ""     D I understand the lack of fonts. I don't understand the warning abou E sm.num_hosts. Nor do I understand why it says 'No Protocol specified'    Tony.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 18:27:17 +0200m, From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl> Subject: Re: XDMP and TCPIP 5.4u* Message-ID: <2gcdbcF17blrU1@uni-berlin.de>  8 "Tony Arnold" <tony.arnold@man.ac.uk> schreef in bericht' news:c7q56a$1mk5$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk...0H > Here is some more information on this problem. The log file created by7 > CDE in my SYS$LOGIN directory contains the following:  > G > $ write sys$output "Executing mcr cde$system_defaults:[bin]dtsession".2 > Executing mcr cde$system_defaults:[bin]dtsession > $ write sys$output ""  >e* > $ mcr cde$system_defaults:[bin]dtsession9 > X Toolkit Warning: Cannot convert string "-dt-interface  > user-medium-r-normal-s*-% > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*" to type FontStructl* > X Toolkit Warning: Cannot convert string) > "-*-Menu-Medium-R-Normal--*-120-*-*-P-*-  > -ISO8859-1" to type FontStruct9 > X Toolkit Warning: Cannot convert string "-dt-interface. > user-medium-r-normal-s*-% > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*" to type FontStruct * > X Toolkit Warning: Cannot convert string) > "-*-Menu-Medium-R-Normal--*-120-*-*-P-*   > -ISO8859-1" to type FontStruct9 > Warning: sm.num_hosts is 5 but sm.host_list has 1 hostso2 > Xlib: connection to "_WSA445:" refused by server > Xlib: No protocol specifiedu >  > $ write sys$output ""u >' >tE > I understand the lack of fonts. I don't understand the warning aboubG > sm.num_hosts. Nor do I understand why it says 'No Protocol specified'P >m > Tony.w  J It's not that the 5.4 upgrade lost the Security information (Style manager panel)? K That's the panel where you specify which protocols, nodes and usercodes may  access the system.   Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 21:32:03 -0500-@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised6 Message-ID: <40A03B23.E6D58AFE@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote: >  > In article <c7njuv$flg$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:- > >Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:.q > >> In article <c7i93t$p13$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> writes:  > >>/ > >>>Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:oO > >>>>Advertising is expensive.  While it might be possible to persuade some of P > >>>>what few  ISVs and resellers are still thoroughly committed to VMS to kickJ > >>>>in for some ads, there aren't a lot of other deep pockets out there. > >>>> > >>>-? > >>>Getting your top VP's to include lavish details on OpenVMS : > >>>in their strategy presentations is not expensive, how > >>>about starting there. > >> > >>J > >> Not sure whether you're just sniping or trying to make a constructiveO > >> suggestion.  However, the point is that whatever we've been doing so far -:K > >> which certainly includes heroic efforts from various users - hasn't sog' > >> far produced satisfactory results.o > >> > >p > >I wasn't sniping. > ><E > >However it does illustrate the futility of asking HP to spend morer  > >money on advertising OpenVMS. > >iE > >If you cannot get HP execs to reliably report to the world that HP E > >does have this product called OpenVMS, that it is committed to theNG > >product and that is it is good etc etc, which costs the exec nothinglI > >except a modest amount of time, then you are extremely unlikely to gett. > >them to spend money on advertising OpenVMS. > >o > I > Agreed.  So the PR campaign I've advocated could be aimed at getting HPr > behind VMS in both regards.d > G > >It would seem to me that the OpenVMS community is on its own on this E > >one, unless you accept what this and move on you will always be in K > >a state of dissapointed anticipation. Tiny flurries of OpenVMS marketing I > >activity (which is all it ever is) followed by raised expectations andUH > >then dissapointment as it becomes apparent that the status quo hasn't > >in fact changed.  > M > There's only so much we can do on our own, which is why I think the effortseN > need to be bent toward swaying HP.  The crucial difference, I think, betweenL > this suggestion and previous efforts is that the idea is to go very publicL > with the issues.  With former proprietors of VMS, complaints at (eg) DECUSK > produced those "tiny flurries" to which you referred earlier - basically,eN > attempts to pacify the installed base.  I'm talking about enough PR activity+ > to, eventually, stir up the stockholders.s  ( Potentially dangerous, legally speaking.  > ...more so than just trying to sell what they don't want sold.   -- r David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/w   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 03:17:58 GMTs- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>p2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised@ Message-ID: <0666fd2873dcd8e41f79993bede38e40@news.teranews.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:% > ...but plain text plays *ANY*where!b > J > ...not to mention cut-and-paste into the document creator/editor of your > choosing.   F In fairness to PDF,  when a .pdf document is produced without optionalH security, you can copy/paste text as well as images from a PDF document.  K If VMS had the full fledged Adobe Acrobat reader on VMS, we would then be aPL better part of the "IT community" because we'd be able to read and hopefully$ produce industry standard documents.  I For large documents, the fact that PDF has bookmarks, index and hot links-M makes it far superior to long ascii document without structure. PDF documentsi/ do come very close to Bookreader functionality.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2004 07:30:06 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised3 Message-ID: <zTgbLxX34JyK@eisner.encompasserve.org>O  Z In article <c7opdj$2a11$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> writes:   >  HP-UXM > is so big that HP has to continue actively marketing that product.  NonStop N > is so different from HP-UX that the two can be marketed currently without HPM > seeming unfocused.  OpenVMS is cached between those two.  It is not so muchn) > better at high availability than HP-UX D      Bull.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:50:07 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>y2 Subject: RE: You'll never guess what HP advertisedR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3144DB@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Karsten Nyblad [mailto:nospam@nospam.com]=20 > Sent: May 10, 2004 4:41 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 4 > Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised >=20 >=200 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message( > news:VcidnSAXH_twPwTdRVn-gw@igs.net...> > > Page 11 (first page after the table of contents) of the=20 > June 2004 issue ofA > > 'The Atlantic', clearly targeted at executive readers. For=20o > those of you > not = > > familiar with 'The Atlantic', it is a highly respected=20o > magazine aimed atn@ > > high-income executives and consists mostly of thoughtful,=20 > lengthy articles< > > on politics, social issues, world affairs, and the like. > >b1 > > The ad is a very nice full page ad and reads:m > > # > > "Keeping happy wanderers Happy. ? > > Whoever said the journey is the destination hasn't spent=20- > time snorkeling- > in6 > > St. Martin. Using HP NonStop servers and a Java=20 > architecture implemented > byG > > HP Services, Travelocity delivers three times more flight and hotel>	 > optionsOA > > in less time than it takes to rent swim fins. So travelers=20m > spend more time E > > in the water, and less time online. www.hp.com/plus_travelocity "e > >  > >YA > > Arguably an even more niche-oriented operating system than=20T > OpenVMS gets0 > > advertised. Needless to say, OpenVMS is MIA. >=20: > Now try being HP's upper management.  They have three=20 > operating systems forN< > back office:  HP-UX, OpenVMS, and NonStop.  OpenVMS and=20 > NonStop are both in B > the market of high availability, and HP-UX is getting some of=20 > these featuresA > from Tru64.  If HP market all three, then customers will ask=20  > what HP reallyA > want and if HP is really committed to any of these operating=20t > systems.  HP-UXe> > is so big that HP has to continue actively marketing that=20 > product.  NonStops< > is so different from HP-UX that the two can be marketed=20 > currently without HPA > seeming unfocused.  OpenVMS is cached between those two.  It=20[ > is not so muchF > better at high availability than HP-UX that you can easily explain a? > management type why a company should chose OpenVMS and not=20  > HP-UX.  It doesyB > not have the hardware platform with redundancy like NonStop. =20
 > That leaves: > OpenVMS in the dust. >=20 > Karsten Nyblad! > ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot comd >=20  	 ROTFL ...s  G Thats like telling GM they only need to sell and promote one or, at thee most two, vehicles ...   :-) :-)    RegardsM  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanta HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660M Fax: 613-591-4477b Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcoms. (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------    Date: 11 May 2004 07:53:15 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)l2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised3 Message-ID: <GeHCYM$fmhMj@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  Z In article <c7opdj$2a11$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> writes:  M > Now try being HP's upper management.  They have three operating systems forlM > back office:  HP-UX, OpenVMS, and NonStop.  OpenVMS and NonStop are both in N > the market of high availability, and HP-UX is getting some of these featuresM > from Tru64.  If HP market all three, then customers will ask what HP reallyoG > want and if HP is really committed to any of these operating systems.   G    Who gives a damn about what HP wants?  When I'm buying a system, itsi'    about what _I_ want, not the vendor.u  H    Funny how these multiple product arguments only get used against VMS.F    IBM sells MVS, AIX, Linux, ..., and nobody calls them not commited G    to all of them.  Honda sells sedans, SUVs, sports cars, generators, -H    lawn mowers, and I don't know how many models of motorcycles, yet no I    one claims Honda is not committed to them.  Kraft sells more kinds of  J    foods than I care to think about, but we all think there serious about     them.  D    Linux runs on 386, 486, Pentium, Alpha, PPC, ... (I admit I can'tI    keep track of them all).  Shall we ask what does Mr. Torvaldis really c    want?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:43:14 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>f2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised0 Message-ID: <c7qhp2$gls$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:\ > In article <c7opdj$2a11$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> writes: >  >  >> HP-UXM >>is so big that HP has to continue actively marketing that product.  NonStoprN >>is so different from HP-UX that the two can be marketed currently without HPM >>seeming unfocused.  OpenVMS is cached between those two.  It is not so muchr) >>better at high availability than HP-UX   >  > 
 >    Bull. >   @ Nope sorry Karsten is right you are wrong (could that be again).  B There is a spectum of availability, HP-UX with clustering provides> the standard failover and restart/OPS type clustering which in/ practice is fine for the majority of customers.e  < NonStop provides full FT which is required by a much smaller; subset of HP's customer base, OpenVMS is sandwitched in theS2 middle, higher availability than HP-UX but not FT.  ; People a clear what FT is and what benefits it delivers ando OpenVMS does not do FT.p  ? People are also clear what HA clusters do but have real troublep* differentiating between HP-UX and OpenVMS.  ; To make matters worse many customers have hybrid FT/Clustert9 environments, FT for the components within a service that 9 require FT, clustered for the rest, one example being thea9 SS7 infrastuctures many telcos have with FT boxes sitting 6 on the SS7 links to the switches connected to failover8 clusters running on UNIX etc boxes running the DBMS/app.  6 Sitting in the middle as OpenVMS does without the apps7 isn't really an advantage and just confuses marketeers.d   RegardsS Andrew Harrisont   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:34:09 +0100wO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised0 Message-ID: <c7qkoi$hri$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:\ > In article <c7opdj$2a11$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> writes: >  > M >>Now try being HP's upper management.  They have three operating systems for M >>back office:  HP-UX, OpenVMS, and NonStop.  OpenVMS and NonStop are both in N >>the market of high availability, and HP-UX is getting some of these featuresM >>from Tru64.  If HP market all three, then customers will ask what HP reallyMG >>want and if HP is really committed to any of these operating systems.  >  > I >    Who gives a damn about what HP wants?  When I'm buying a system, itsn) >    about what _I_ want, not the vendor.u >   > Odd, the quality of your decision when reviewed in a couple of< years time will in part be judged by what the vendor does in: the years after the decision, not having any idea what the: vendor wants (e.g their strategy) is foolish and will only& result in poor decisions on your part.  J >    Funny how these multiple product arguments only get used against VMS.H >    IBM sells MVS, AIX, Linux, ..., and nobody calls them not commited I >    to all of them.  Honda sells sedans, SUVs, sports cars, generators, sJ >    lawn mowers, and I don't know how many models of motorcycles, yet no K >    one claims Honda is not committed to them.  Kraft sells more kinds of sL >    foods than I care to think about, but we all think there serious about 
 >    them. >   H Its always a mistake to compare IBM with OpenVMS's owner du jour becauseF IBM has always shown that they are capable of managing the aspirationsF of their business units without ending up with conflicts between them.  H That plus the fact that each IBM BU AIX/Wintel/OS400/zOS are much larger& than OpenVMS makes IBM a poor example.    F >    Linux runs on 386, 486, Pentium, Alpha, PPC, ... (I admit I can'tK >    keep track of them all).  Shall we ask what does Mr. Torvaldis really  
 >    want? >   & x86 he has made that abundantly clear.   regardsr Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:36:38 +0100sO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>l2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised0 Message-ID: <c7qkt6$hri$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote: >  >  > ROTFL ...e > I > Thats like telling GM they only need to sell and promote one or, at the- > most two, vehicles ... >   > It would be funny except that the real problem is that GM have> shown that they are capable of doing this and HP and OpenVMS's other owners du jour have not.  > So its a terrible example because it just serves to illustrate< that this kind of conflict is possible to manage sucessfully! but you just arn't capable of it.    regards  Andrew Harrisonr   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:00:11 +0200a* From: "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised- Message-ID: <c7qm9e$15ot$1@news.cybercity.dk>w  2 "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3144DB@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net...  8 >> Now try being HP's upper management.  They have three >> operating systems for: >> back office:  HP-UX, OpenVMS, and NonStop.  OpenVMS and >> NonStop are both in@ >> the market of high availability, and HP-UX is getting some of >> these featuresD? >> from Tru64.  If HP market all three, then customers will aska >> what HP reallye? >> want and if HP is really committed to any of these operatingo >> systems.  HP-UX< >> is so big that HP has to continue actively marketing that >> product.  NonStop: >> is so different from HP-UX that the two can be marketed >> currently without HP ? >> seeming unfocused.  OpenVMS is cached between those two.  Ite >> is not so muchaG >> better at high availability than HP-UX that you can easily explain a3= >> management type why a company should chose OpenVMS and notr >> HP-UX.  It does? >> not have the hardware platform with redundancy like NonStop.o >> That leaves >> OpenVMS in the dust.s >> >> Karsten Nyblad " >> ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot com >> > 
 >ROTFL ... >uH >Thats like telling GM they only need to sell and promote one or, at the >most two, vehicles ...e >m >:-) :-)  J I just visited the Buick and Cadillac sites.  There is a link written in aI small font at the bottom of the page to other GM sites.  I think GM would-L like people not to think about the different car brands coming from the sameI company.  A few days ago I could not find Daimler-Chryslers home page andeJ tried the Maybach and the Mercedes home pages.  There were no links to theJ companies other home pages.  Besides, you may buy many different cars fromG one manufacturer, but usually they produce a limited number of engines.   E We think (or at least claim) that we select car models based rationallH reasons, but in reality it has more to do about which signals we want toL send.  Real men buy pick-ups, SUVs, or sports cars.  How many really need toG transport big things more than a couple of times a year?  How many need.H 4-wheel drive (except for driving in snow a few times a year)?  How manyK need sports cars considering the speed limits?  Most men would be better ofvI with a sedan, but sedan does not send the right image.  A company like VWDI sells the same car with small modifications using three brands, typically J Audi, VW and Skoda, and at very different price.  Why? Because that allows> them to sell the same car to three different groups of people.  I Please do not mix up how people make decision on buying products that areTJ mainly sold on image with products like operating systems where people are= much more likely to base their decision on technical reasons.    Karsten Nyblad ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot comi   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:23:09 +0200P* From: "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised- Message-ID: <c7qnkg$17ck$1@news.cybercity.dk>a  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:GeHCYM$fmhMj@eisner.encompasserve.org...e@ > In article <c7opdj$2a11$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> writes:T > K > > Now try being HP's upper management.  They have three operating systemsn for'L > > back office:  HP-UX, OpenVMS, and NonStop.  OpenVMS and NonStop are both inG > > the market of high availability, and HP-UX is getting some of these  featuresH > > from Tru64.  If HP market all three, then customers will ask what HP reallyI > > want and if HP is really committed to any of these operating systems.0 >9I >    Who gives a damn about what HP wants?  When I'm buying a system, itse) >    about what _I_ want, not the vendor.S  K When you chose an operating system you want to be sure that you can buy neweJ systems for many years.  Thus you want to be sure that the vendor actuallyG wants to continue active development and selling systems at competitivedI prices.  It is no easy decission to move to a new operating system if you>4 have a million lines of code as many companies have.  K Chosing an operating system is also chosing a business partner for years toCL come.  When you chose business partners, you try to get partner that want to5 take the partnership in the same direction as you do.v  J >    Funny how these multiple product arguments only get used against VMS.G >    IBM sells MVS, AIX, Linux, ..., and nobody calls them not commited  >    to all of them.  E IBM has used 50 years to build customer trust in that if something iswJ supported by IBM, then they will not leave you while you are in deeb shit.2 HP has already canceled a couple of product lines.  5 >  Honda sells sedans, SUVs, sports cars, generators,sI >    lawn mowers, and I don't know how many models of motorcycles, yet noeJ >    one claims Honda is not committed to them.  Kraft sells more kinds ofK >    foods than I care to think about, but we all think there serious about 
 >    them.   Se my answer to Kerry Main.   F >    Linux runs on 386, 486, Pentium, Alpha, PPC, ... (I admit I can'tJ >    keep track of them all).  Shall we ask what does Mr. Torvaldis really
 >    want?  F And how many of these are actively sold?  The first version of the 2.6K kernel was only for x86.  Besides, there is an important difference betweenlL open source and closed source software.  In later case you never know if theI vendor decides to stop the product and drop support.  That can get you in L real troubles.  On open source you know that if nobody else will support the" code, then you can do it yourself.   Karsten Nyblad ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:16:07 -0400r' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>e2 Subject: RE: You'll never guess what HP advertisedR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB314508@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Karsten Nyblad [mailto:nospam@nospam.com]=20 > Sent: May 11, 2004 10:00 AMn > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com)4 > Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised >=20 [snip to save trees..] >=20< > Please do not mix up how people make decision on buying=20 > products that areu> > mainly sold on image with products like operating systems=20 > where people are? > much more likely to base their decision on technical reasons.r >=20 > Karsten Nyblad! > ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot comu >=20 >=20  * Come on now .. Lets not get silly here.=20  D How often have folks on this list stated they wanted HP to advertize OpenVMS more?=20  F Using your theory, HP would not have to advertise OpenVMS at all since- its technical capabilities would sell itself.S  G Using your theory, can you expand on the technical advantages as to why F so many CIO's choose Windows solutions over UNIX solutions? After all,4 they must have decided on technical reasons - right?  ? The reality of today's world is that there are a huge number of D different environments around with different requirements, differentG price points and different political focus's. There is no such thing as H one OS that can handle them all - just as there will never (at least not? in my lifetime) be a small number of vehicles that will address 2 everyone's feature/price/performance requirements.   Regards-  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanta HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660n Fax: 613-591-4477o Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcomS. (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:03:18 -0400r# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised, Message-ID: <8OOdnVAAL57bZD3dRVn-ig@igs.net>  2 "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB314508@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net...    ' Come on now .. Lets not get silly here.i  D How often have folks on this list stated they wanted HP to advertize
 OpenVMS more?d  F Using your theory, HP would not have to advertise OpenVMS at all since- its technical capabilities would sell itself.E  J JS > Even the presumptive president of the USA, George Bush, knew that allK the 'obvious benefits' of the war in Iraq wouldn't sell themselves - that'smK why he 'sold' the war in a marketing blitz to his 'buying public' last yearq before the invasion.    G Using your theory, can you expand on the technical advantages as to whyfF so many CIO's choose Windows solutions over UNIX solutions? After all,4 they must have decided on technical reasons - right?  ? The reality of today's world is that there are a huge number ofLD different environments around with different requirements, differentG price points and different political focus's. There is no such thing asvH one OS that can handle them all - just as there will never (at least not? in my lifetime) be a small number of vehicles that will addresse2 everyone's feature/price/performance requirements.  E JS> But HP will never publicly offer OpenVMS as one of those choices.4   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 18:15:13 +0200y* From: "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised- Message-ID: <c7qu6k$1f1j$1@news.cybercity.dk>a  2 "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB314508@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net...  E >How often have folks on this list stated they wanted HP to advertizee >OpenVMS more?  I Of course OpenVMS users will want HP to advertize OpenVMS.  But that doesiJ not necessarily mean that that would be a wise business decission to HP toC do that.  If HP looses HP-UX and NonStop customers because HP seems I unfocused then OpenVMS is going to sell many, many systems to pay for theo3 ads and the lost sale of HP-UX and NonStop systems.   G >Using your theory, HP would not have to advertise OpenVMS at all since.. >its technical capabilities would sell itself.  G VMS lost the workstation market to Sun, Appollo and Windows by being totJ expensive.  The Sparc and Mips processors were twice as fast as the Vaxes.L Then Digital got Alphas, but it did not introduce cheap workstations on thatJ platform.  These days OpenVMS cannot win customers because everybody thinkL it is going to be EOLed sometimes during the next decade.  And then there is the price...  H >Using your theory, can you expand on the technical advantages as to whyG >so many CIO's choose Windows solutions over UNIX solutions? After all,15 >they must have decided on technical reasons - right?d  K Windows might be crap, but it is on that platform all the cool desktop user K applications are.  And then it is cheap compared to other platforms.  AppleEH might have some cool computers, but you end up paying considerably more.L Workstations have always been much more expensive than Windows.  People will" only pay so much more for quality.  # The best can also be too expensive.l   Karsten Nyblad ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot comr   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:51:43 GMTe4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised0 Message-ID: <40A10422.7A0E11D1@blueyonder.co.uk>  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:    lM > There's only so much we can do on our own, which is why I think the effortsoN > need to be bent toward swaying HP.  The crucial difference, I think, betweenL > this suggestion and previous efforts is that the idea is to go very publicL > with the issues.  With former proprietors of VMS, complaints at (eg) DECUSK > produced those "tiny flurries" to which you referred earlier - basically,/N > attempts to pacify the installed base.  I'm talking about enough PR activity+ > to, eventually, stir up the stockholders.r >   KP Nice idea in principal. I did put some effort into submitting a proposal the theV beebs Panorama team back in the 2001 time frame when involved (albeit more marginally S than others) in the great "opus" project. The climate has changed somewhat now withpV more PCs out there in people's faces and the whole suffer-patch-suffer-more-patch-mored effect more visible in the media and in peoples' lives, but there are many forces in the way, sadly.  O The latest upgrade to my Digital TV software features a "troubleshooting" video-S which espouses one to "reboot the box so that it works perfectly every time". Until.N the layperson understands that this is nonsense because if it worked perfectlyM every time you wouldn't need to reboot, then there is little hope of changings9 the goalposts back in favour of technologies such as VMS.8   Linux is ust a distraction.o   regards  -- a tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:25:43 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>b2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised, Message-ID: <tdOdnSzIDPkKkTzdRVn-iQ@igs.net>  5 "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in messaget' news:c7qu6k$1f1j$1@news.cybercity.dk...h > 4 > "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in message > L news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB314508@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net... > G > >How often have folks on this list stated they wanted HP to advertize  > >OpenVMS more? >aK > Of course OpenVMS users will want HP to advertize OpenVMS.  But that does L > not necessarily mean that that would be a wise business decission to HP toE > do that.  If HP looses HP-UX and NonStop customers because HP seemsrK > unfocused then OpenVMS is going to sell many, many systems to pay for the 5 > ads and the lost sale of HP-UX and NonStop systems.e >rI > >Using your theory, HP would not have to advertise OpenVMS at all sincel0 > >its technical capabilities would sell itself. >qI > VMS lost the workstation market to Sun, Appollo and Windows by being tocL > expensive.  The Sparc and Mips processors were twice as fast as the Vaxes.I > Then Digital got Alphas, but it did not introduce cheap workstations on  thatL > platform.  These days OpenVMS cannot win customers because everybody thinkK > it is going to be EOLed sometimes during the next decade.  And then there  is > the price... >.J > >Using your theory, can you expand on the technical advantages as to whyI > >so many CIO's choose Windows solutions over UNIX solutions? After all,d7 > >they must have decided on technical reasons - right?r >mH > Windows might be crap, but it is on that platform all the cool desktop userF > applications are.  And then it is cheap compared to other platforms. Apple J > might have some cool computers, but you end up paying considerably more.I > Workstations have always been much more expensive than Windows.  Peopleo will$ > only pay so much more for quality. >s% > The best can also be too expensive.t    H Mercedes has the Maybach. VW has the Phaeton. Rolls & Bentley, Ferrari &A Maserati, all have cars that are wickedly expensive. All of thesehD manufacturers advertise these cars even though perfectly serviceable alternatives exist at $30,000.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.261 ************************