1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 13 May 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 264       Contents:? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... ? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... ? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... ? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... ? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... ? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... ? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... 3 Re: Determining amount of  space used on a DLT tape  Re: DFO and SET FILE/NOMOVE  Re: DFO and SET FILE/NOMOVE  Re: EVE customizations/ Re: Gigantic hobbyist cluster opportunity   :-) / Re: Gigantic hobbyist cluster opportunity   :-) / Re: Gigantic hobbyist cluster opportunity   :-) / Re: Gigantic hobbyist cluster opportunity   :-) / Re: Gigantic hobbyist cluster opportunity   :-) @ Re: HBVS, shutdown procedures, dismounting disks, SHADOW_MBR_TMO@ Re: HBVS, shutdown procedures, dismounting disks, SHADOW_MBR_TMO Re: Help required with CLD file : Re: HP to can HP/UX? Intel pulls out of IA-64 prematurely? installation boot failure   Re: Is ZIP on VMS a process hog? Java v 1.4.2-1# Re: LIB$INITIALIZE: simple example?  Re: longest uptime, Re: OT You'll never guess what HP advertised, Re: OT You'll never guess what HP advertised, Re: OT You'll never guess what HP advertised' Re: Parity errors when HSG80 restarted? ' Re: Parity errors when HSG80 restarted? ' Re: Parity errors when HSG80 restarted? ' Re: Parity errors when HSG80 restarted? - Re: PPP and TCP/IP(UCX) configuration for ISP ! Re: Processor Based License Model ! Re: Processor Based License Model ! Re: Processor Based License Model ! Re: Processor Based License Model ! Re: Processor Based License Model ! Re: Reserved TCP/IP Port Numbers? ! Re: Reserved TCP/IP Port Numbers? ) Re: RZ2DD-LS performance specifications ? 4 SCSI controllers for 4000 series microvax, for TZK628 Re: SCSI controllers for 4000 series microvax, for TZK628 Re: SCSI controllers for 4000 series microvax, for TZK628 Re: SCSI controllers for 4000 series microvax, for TZK628 Re: SCSI controllers for 4000 series microvax, for TZK628 Re: SCSI controllers for 4000 series microvax, for TZK62
 Re: SPAM, etc 
 Re: SPAM, etc 
 Re: SPAM, etc 
 Re: SPAM, etc 
 Re: SPAM, etc ! Re: SUN fails to advertise VMS... 3 Re: TCP/IP routing - which is the correct behaviour < This is why HP needs to advertise VMS and increase its sales@ Re: This is why HP needs to advertise VMS and increase its sales@ Re: This is why HP needs to advertise VMS and increase its sales% XFC experiences on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 ) Re: XFC experiences on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 ) Re: XFC experiences on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised  [OT]: Re: SPAM, etc # RE: [OT]: What's Sun really saying?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 12:12:39 -0700' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....< Message-ID: <734da31c.0405121112.6cd6419@posting.google.com>  q Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<c7t5gi$dsf$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > David Svensson wrote:  >  > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c7qapp$e51$3@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > >  > >>David Svensson wrote:  > >> > >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c7nlk3$g9i$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... > >>>  > >>> H > >>>>Even Dell who have an exclusive deal with Intel are hardly pushing > >>>>Itanium are they.  > >>>  > >>> 7 > >>>They are about to ship a 4-way Itanium server now.  > >>3 > >>Wow, how many years have HP been shipping 4 way  > >>Itanium boxes for. > >>2 > >>If you can't work out why this point is rather3 > >>damaging to yours then have a think about Dells  > >>market strategy. > >  > > P > > They have until now only a 2-way server, now they are adding a 4-way server.7 > > I see this as a bit positive for Itanium from Dell.  > 8 > How so when Dell have an exclusive deal with Intel for6 > CPU's. Currently Itanium is their only 64bit option,2 > which they have introduced at a slower rate than7 > any other Intel OEM depite being the only major Intel # > OEM that can only use Intel CPU's    I am clueless now, "How so" ?   F Are you saying that it would have been better for Itanium from Dell if? Dell would not introduce a 4-way server and only keep the 2-way  server?    ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 12:24:40 -0700' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....= Message-ID: <734da31c.0405121124.4b6294f5@posting.google.com>   q Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<c7t2go$cqp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > David Svensson wrote:  >  >  > 9 > >>When did the estimate of 100000 which vanishingly few 4 > >>people thought was likely to happen turn into an  > >>actual sale of 100000 CPU's. > >  > >  > > At IDF: D > > "Intel CEO Craig Barrett noted that Intel sold more than 100,000" > > Itanium processors last year". > >  > : > Yes and absolutely no one thought that meant that Intels; > partners had sold 100000 Itanium CPU's. Historically more ; > Itanium systems have been shipped into the sales channel, : > into porting centers and demo rooms than have been sold. >  > Except obviously you.   D No, I don't think that all was real sales, I just recall what I hear@ and read. I just reacted to the fact that you said 100000 was an  estimate which was not the case.     > > 5 > >>And where did the 13000 Itanium CPU's sold by SGI  > >>come from ?  > >  > > 6 > > What do you mean? I guess Intel manufactured them. > >  > > ? > >>>>>>Itanium is for HP, the sooner the rest of the Intel OEM A > >>>>>>community wake up to that fact the better (for them), IBM E > >>>>>>already have and its only a matter of time before NEC, Unisys B > >>>>>>and the rest give up on what have been a major problem for# > >>>>>>HP and a disaster for them.  > >>>>>  > >>>>>  > >>>>>That is FUD. 3 > >>>>>IBM have not changed their Itanium plans and - > >>>>>NEC is doing pretty well with Itanium.  > >>>>9 > >>>>This is not FUD, IBM have chosen not to use Itanium > > >>>>for their next generation high end Intel based SMP boxesA > >>>>this was key design win that Itanium needed. IBM considered > > >>>>Itanium but rejected it because it was too expensive and > >>>>not fast enough. > >>>  > >>> J > >>>This has been discussed before... IBM has as far as I know never beenH > >>>that keen on Itanium for various reasons. I don't expect them to do  > >>>more than what they do now. > >>% > >>Sorry but thats the wrong answer.  > >  > >  > > Not from my point of view. > >  > 1 > And why does that count in this discussion. Its . > not your views that matter its the facts and- > the facts don't support your view hence the  > first point.  
 See below.   > > ? > >>Had IBM's only option for 64bit been Itanium then I suspect @ > >>that their decision would have been different, only having aA > >>32bit OS and 32bit platform would for a large SMP system with 3 > >>up to 64 CPU's have become an increasing issue.  > >  > > 8 > > I don't think IBM would have build one in that case.J > > And besides, they push POWER as their high-end offering more nowadays. > > : > Sorry but also untrue. Where do you dream up this stuff.  F My view support facts. x86 CPU sales in a much larger volume and it isF far more interesting for IBM to sell x86 based servers for a number ofA reasons, one is that there are a lot more applications for x86 on ? Windows and Linux. Itanium is a low-volume high-end CPU and IBM @ already have Power in that area. I see no reason for IBM to push. Itanium more unless it takes off considerably.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:38:04 +0100 9 From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....0 Message-ID: <c7u1vd$nfc$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote: s > Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<c7t2go$cqp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  >>David Svensson wrote:  >> >> >> >>9 >>>>When did the estimate of 100000 which vanishingly few 4 >>>>people thought was likely to happen turn into an  >>>>actual sale of 100000 CPU's. >>>  >>> 
 >>>At IDF:C >>>"Intel CEO Craig Barrett noted that Intel sold more than 100,000 ! >>>Itanium processors last year".  >>>  >>: >>Yes and absolutely no one thought that meant that Intels; >>partners had sold 100000 Itanium CPU's. Historically more ; >>Itanium systems have been shipped into the sales channel, : >>into porting centers and demo rooms than have been sold. >> >>Except obviously you.  >  > F > No, I don't think that all was real sales, I just recall what I hearB > and read. I just reacted to the fact that you said 100000 was an" > estimate which was not the case. >   9 It is an estimate and a very poor one because it only has ; a loose relationship to the number of CPU's sold in systems 
 to customers.     I >>>And besides, they push POWER as their high-end offering more nowadays.  >>>  >>: >>Sorry but also untrue. Where do you dream up this stuff. >  > H > My view support facts. x86 CPU sales in a much larger volume and it isH > far more interesting for IBM to sell x86 based servers for a number ofC > reasons, one is that there are a lot more applications for x86 on A > Windows and Linux. Itanium is a low-volume high-end CPU and IBM B > already have Power in that area. I see no reason for IBM to push0 > Itanium more unless it takes off considerably.  6 Well except that had you looked a bit closer you would4 also have noted that IBM's largest Itanium II server4 actually supports 16 CPU's they made use of the same* architecture used by the 32 way Intel box.  3 However when they came to decide on what to use for 6 their next generation SMP box with up to 64 CPU's they chose x86 not Itanium.  - Sorry but the facts do not support your case.    regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:42:24 +0100 9 From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....0 Message-ID: <c7u27i$nj1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote:   s > Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<c7t5gi$dsf$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  >>David Svensson wrote:  >> >> >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c7qapp$e51$3@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>>  >>>  >>>>David Svensson wrote:  >>>> >>>> >>>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c7nlk3$g9i$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>>>>  >>>>>  >>>>> H >>>>>>Even Dell who have an exclusive deal with Intel are hardly pushing >>>>>>Itanium are they.  >>>>>  >>>>> 7 >>>>>They are about to ship a 4-way Itanium server now.  >>>>3 >>>>Wow, how many years have HP been shipping 4 way  >>>>Itanium boxes for. >>>>2 >>>>If you can't work out why this point is rather3 >>>>damaging to yours then have a think about Dells  >>>>market strategy. >>>  >>> O >>>They have until now only a 2-way server, now they are adding a 4-way server. 6 >>>I see this as a bit positive for Itanium from Dell. >>8 >>How so when Dell have an exclusive deal with Intel for6 >>CPU's. Currently Itanium is their only 64bit option,2 >>which they have introduced at a slower rate than7 >>any other Intel OEM depite being the only major Intel # >>OEM that can only use Intel CPU's  >  >  > I am clueless now, "How so" ?  >    Really !H > Are you saying that it would have been better for Itanium from Dell ifA > Dell would not introduce a 4-way server and only keep the 2-way 	 > server?   8 No, I am saying that despite not having any other option; than Itanium to compete with Opteron etc Dell dragged their 9 feet until after all the other major Intel OEM's had done = a 2 way server and they then followed this same strategy with 7 the 4 way. This is hardly a ringing vote of confidence.    regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 21:35:27 -0700' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....= Message-ID: <734da31c.0405122035.4c74d3f3@posting.google.com>   q Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<c7u27i$nj1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > David Svensson wrote:  > u > > Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<c7t5gi$dsf$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > >  > >>David Svensson wrote:  > >> > >> > >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c7qapp$e51$3@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... > >>>  > >>>  > >>>>David Svensson wrote:  > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c7nlk3$g9i$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... > >>>>>  > >>>>>  > >>>>> J > >>>>>>Even Dell who have an exclusive deal with Intel are hardly pushing > >>>>>>Itanium are they.  > >>>>>  > >>>>> 9 > >>>>>They are about to ship a 4-way Itanium server now.  > >>>>5 > >>>>Wow, how many years have HP been shipping 4 way  > >>>>Itanium boxes for. > >>>>4 > >>>>If you can't work out why this point is rather5 > >>>>damaging to yours then have a think about Dells  > >>>>market strategy. > >>>  > >>> Q > >>>They have until now only a 2-way server, now they are adding a 4-way server. 8 > >>>I see this as a bit positive for Itanium from Dell. > >>: > >>How so when Dell have an exclusive deal with Intel for8 > >>CPU's. Currently Itanium is their only 64bit option,4 > >>which they have introduced at a slower rate than9 > >>any other Intel OEM depite being the only major Intel % > >>OEM that can only use Intel CPU's  > >  > > ! > > I am clueless now, "How so" ?  > >  > 
 > Really !J > > Are you saying that it would have been better for Itanium from Dell ifC > > Dell would not introduce a 4-way server and only keep the 2-way  > > server?  > : > No, I am saying that despite not having any other option= > than Itanium to compete with Opteron etc Dell dragged their ; > feet until after all the other major Intel OEM's had done ? > a 2 way server and they then followed this same strategy with 9 > the 4 way. This is hardly a ringing vote of confidence.   E I partly agree, but I don't understand your reaction when I just said F that Dell was about to introduce a 4-way Itanium server. I _still_ see- this as a bit positive for Itanium from Dell.    ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 21:35:32 -0700' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....= Message-ID: <734da31c.0405122035.43ce0f4c@posting.google.com>   q Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<c7u27i$nj1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > David Svensson wrote:  > u > > Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<c7t5gi$dsf$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > >  > >>David Svensson wrote:  > >> > >> > >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c7qapp$e51$3@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... > >>>  > >>>  > >>>>David Svensson wrote:  > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c7nlk3$g9i$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... > >>>>>  > >>>>>  > >>>>> J > >>>>>>Even Dell who have an exclusive deal with Intel are hardly pushing > >>>>>>Itanium are they.  > >>>>>  > >>>>> 9 > >>>>>They are about to ship a 4-way Itanium server now.  > >>>>5 > >>>>Wow, how many years have HP been shipping 4 way  > >>>>Itanium boxes for. > >>>>4 > >>>>If you can't work out why this point is rather5 > >>>>damaging to yours then have a think about Dells  > >>>>market strategy. > >>>  > >>> Q > >>>They have until now only a 2-way server, now they are adding a 4-way server. 8 > >>>I see this as a bit positive for Itanium from Dell. > >>: > >>How so when Dell have an exclusive deal with Intel for8 > >>CPU's. Currently Itanium is their only 64bit option,4 > >>which they have introduced at a slower rate than9 > >>any other Intel OEM depite being the only major Intel % > >>OEM that can only use Intel CPU's  > >  > > ! > > I am clueless now, "How so" ?  > >  > 
 > Really !J > > Are you saying that it would have been better for Itanium from Dell ifC > > Dell would not introduce a 4-way server and only keep the 2-way  > > server?  > : > No, I am saying that despite not having any other option= > than Itanium to compete with Opteron etc Dell dragged their ; > feet until after all the other major Intel OEM's had done ? > a 2 way server and they then followed this same strategy with 9 > the 4 way. This is hardly a ringing vote of confidence.   E I partly agree, but I don't understand your reaction when I just said F that Dell was about to introduce a 4-way Itanium server. I _still_ see- this as a bit positive for Itanium from Dell.    ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 21:54:20 -0700' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....= Message-ID: <734da31c.0405122054.7d27a05d@posting.google.com>   q Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<c7u1vd$nfc$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > David Svensson wrote: u > > Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<c7t2go$cqp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > >  > >>David Svensson wrote:  > >> > >> > >> > >>; > >>>>When did the estimate of 100000 which vanishingly few 6 > >>>>people thought was likely to happen turn into an" > >>>>actual sale of 100000 CPU's. > >>>  > >>>  > >>>At IDF:E > >>>"Intel CEO Craig Barrett noted that Intel sold more than 100,000 # > >>>Itanium processors last year".  > >>>  > >>< > >>Yes and absolutely no one thought that meant that Intels= > >>partners had sold 100000 Itanium CPU's. Historically more = > >>Itanium systems have been shipped into the sales channel, < > >>into porting centers and demo rooms than have been sold. > >> > >>Except obviously you.  > >  > > H > > No, I don't think that all was real sales, I just recall what I hearD > > and read. I just reacted to the fact that you said 100000 was an$ > > estimate which was not the case. > >  > ; > It is an estimate and a very poor one because it only has = > a loose relationship to the number of CPU's sold in systems  > to customers.   D That figure was an estimate in the autumn 2003, it was a fact at IDF in 2004.   >  > K > >>>And besides, they push POWER as their high-end offering more nowadays.  > >>>  > >>< > >>Sorry but also untrue. Where do you dream up this stuff. > >  > > J > > My view support facts. x86 CPU sales in a much larger volume and it isJ > > far more interesting for IBM to sell x86 based servers for a number ofE > > reasons, one is that there are a lot more applications for x86 on C > > Windows and Linux. Itanium is a low-volume high-end CPU and IBM D > > already have Power in that area. I see no reason for IBM to push2 > > Itanium more unless it takes off considerably. > 8 > Well except that had you looked a bit closer you would6 > also have noted that IBM's largest Itanium II server6 > actually supports 16 CPU's they made use of the same, > architecture used by the 32 way Intel box.  B Yes, I know they are based on the same architecture, and since IBMA already have a 32-way x86 box and not have a Itanium 32-way box I C don't find it that astonishing that they will extend the x86 one to D 64-way. We don't know yet what kind of Itanium boxes they will make,? perhaps they will stay at 16-way or continue up to 32-way or do  something completely different.   5 > However when they came to decide on what to use for 8 > their next generation SMP box with up to 64 CPU's they > chose x86 not Itanium. > / > Sorry but the facts do not support your case.   : In that case I think we have to agree that we don't agree.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:58:00 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>< Subject: Re: Determining amount of  space used on a DLT tape6 Message-ID: <40A2D628.6CBFA06C@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   tr dorr wrote: > = > Is there a way to determine how much data is on a DLT tape? H > It would be useful to know what the compation ratio is and how much of. > the tape is used? Is there a way to do this?   Hoff mentioend the FAQ.   F The compaction ratio tends to be variable as the character of the data( is variable. Dunno how to call that one.  G I usually just go by experience with any given set of data: how much it = compresses as evidenced by how much data I can put on a tape.   G For example, I used to rate DLT-IVs in TK88 drives at 35GB nominal when B compression was employed. However, at work, I currently get circa.- 51.55GB on a tape in the TZ887 mini-library.    F The difference may be that where before I was saving RMS indexed files< with data bucket (but not index) compression, I'm now savingA uncompressed RMS indexed files. So, there's no "pre-compression".    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 18:15:27 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) $ Subject: Re: DFO and SET FILE/NOMOVE1 Message-ID: <3Rtoc.1324$Lf2.397@news.cpqcorp.net>   D The OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS I64 installation and upgrade procedureH ensures that the files which require SET FILE/NOMOVE have this attributeF set.  If they have not been changed, it should not be necessary to run SETFILENOMOVE.COM.  0 If you look at the OpenVMS operating system PDF,     =     [VMS$COMMON]DEC-AXPVMS-VMS-*-2.PCSI$DESCRIPTION   {Alpha}  or  :     [VMS$COMMON]HP-I64VMS-VMS-*-2.PCSI$DESCRIPTION   {I64}  ? you will see these file in SCOPE BOOTSTRAP -- END SCOPE groups. B OpenVMS kitting procedures look at SETFILENOMOVE.COM and put these file in bootstrap scope.  C The files that need to be in bootstrap scope are any files that are @ accessed during bootstrap BEFORE the full file system is loaded.H Both SETFILENOMVE.COM and the OpenVMS installation and upgrade procedure9 actually set NOMOVE an a superset of the necessary files.     I I am not certain what the OpenVMS VAX installation and upgrade procedures  do about this.   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 05:28:51 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)$ Subject: Re: DFO and SET FILE/NOMOVE$ Message-ID: <c7v12j$k5n$1@online.de>  1 In article <3Rtoc.1324$Lf2.397@news.cpqcorp.net>, 6 hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes:   F > The OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS I64 installation and upgrade procedureJ > ensures that the files which require SET FILE/NOMOVE have this attributeH > set.  If they have not been changed, it should not be necessary to run > SETFILENOMOVE.COM.  B In that case, it might be a good idea for the DFO installation to ? indicate that perhaps executing SETFILENOMOVE is not necessary.    ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 12:42:05 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: EVE customizations 3 Message-ID: <q8wm4nwPPBAR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <cs9pt9925bj.fsf@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>, Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se> writes: G > If you mean the "c-mode" happens to you without you know why, then it  > should be a simple problem.   C    I mean when we're in c-mode, using our indentation standards, it %    suddenly changes to gnu standards.   H > Otherwise, change the c-mode code to conform to your coding standards,6 > with your ideas about proper indention and so forth.  E    Which is what emacs was supposed to be doing "for us", and a waste %    of time to have to keep fixing up.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:56:03 +0200 , From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl>8 Subject: Re: Gigantic hobbyist cluster opportunity   :-)* Message-ID: <2gfaeaF26rvnU1@uni-berlin.de>  0 "Mike Dorn" <mrdorn@visi.com> schreef in bericht4 news:40a1a28c$0$8695$a18e6209@newsreader.visi.com... > Howard Shubs wrote:  > ? > > In article <40a197a9$0$17253$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>, ' > >  Mike Dorn <mrdorn@visi.com> wrote:  > >  > > I > >>Baah--cowards!  I rescued/preserved 3 Data General MV-series Eclipses  for myF > >>basement.  There must be somebody willing to do the same for DEC's legacy.  > >  > > E > > Is.  I mentioned them already.  <http://www.computerhistory.org/>  > > ? > > You saved Eclipse MV-whatever boxen?  Fergodssakewhy??  :->  > > % > Because everyone needs a hobby.  ;p  > C As an ex RDOS / Nova 4 programmer, may I ask what OS you run on the 	 Eclipses?  What models do you own ?   Hans   ------------------------------   Date: 12 May 2004 19:40:49 GMT1 From: schroedingerzkat@aol.com (SchroedingerzKat) 8 Subject: Re: Gigantic hobbyist cluster opportunity   :-): Message-ID: <20040512154049.29140.00001362@mb-m13.aol.com>  D >As an ex RDOS / Nova 4 programmer, may I ask what OS you run on the
 >Eclipses? >What models do you own ?  >  >Hans    Space Heater Linux 0.9   M.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:17:48 -0500 ! From: Mike Dorn <mrdorn@visi.com> 8 Subject: Re: Gigantic hobbyist cluster opportunity   :-): Message-ID: <40a2947c$0$8519$a18e6209@newsreader.visi.com>   Hans Vlems wrote:   2 > "Mike Dorn" <mrdorn@visi.com> schreef in bericht6 > news:40a1a28c$0$8695$a18e6209@newsreader.visi.com... >  >>Howard Shubs wrote:  >> >>> >>>In article <40a197a9$0$17253$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>,& >>> Mike Dorn <mrdorn@visi.com> wrote: >>>  >>>  >>> I >>>>Baah--cowards!  I rescued/preserved 3 Data General MV-series Eclipses  >  > for my > F >>>>basement.  There must be somebody willing to do the same for DEC's > 	 > legacy.  >  >>> D >>>Is.  I mentioned them already.  <http://www.computerhistory.org/> >>> > >>>You saved Eclipse MV-whatever boxen?  Fergodssakewhy??  :-> >>> % >>Because everyone needs a hobby.  ;p  >> > E > As an ex RDOS / Nova 4 programmer, may I ask what OS you run on the  > Eclipses?  > What models do you own ? >  > Hans > P Hmm... RDOS & Nova were just before my time--I started working w/DG stuff right K after the 32-bit systems came out.  Got an MV/4000 (with a couple of Argus  N drives) that runs AOS/VS 7.69.  Also a 15000 and 20000-2 (in a modified 18000 K chassis) that run AOS/VS-II.  Haven't actually had any of them spun up for  Q awhile, as the basement needs a bit of reorganization & the boxes ought to get a  O good PM/cleaning before being used again.  I wrote a ton of (IMNSHO) cool code  Q for these systems during the 80's & early 90's, so wanted to save something that  I could run it.  I'm also an old-fashioned believer in teaching kids about  O assembler and 3gl's before they fill their heads with GUI's & tool-based crap,  O so having an old-style machine around will help when my daughter is old enough  : to start learning about the real world inside the machine.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:47:41 -0400 % From: Howard Shubs <howard@shubs.net> 8 Subject: Re: Gigantic hobbyist cluster opportunity   :-); Message-ID: <howard-D81192.19474012052004@news.newsguy.com>   : In article <40a1a28c$0$8695$a18e6209@newsreader.visi.com>,#  Mike Dorn <mrdorn@visi.com> wrote:   % > Because everyone needs a hobby.  ;p    'drathur have an IBM 1130. ;p    --  4 Your prison is walking through this world all alone.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 01:07:10 GMT 0 From: ace join_to ware@iinet.net.au (Tony Epton)8 Subject: Re: Gigantic hobbyist cluster opportunity   :-)2 Message-ID: <40a2c9fe.5546203@news.m.iinet.net.au>   > B >> I wonder what the shipping would be to Perth, Western Australia > / >Bugger off Tony, the lounge is full already...  > ? But I noticed a bit of room left in your kitchen the other day.      Tony   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:39:10 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) I Subject: Re: HBVS, shutdown procedures, dismounting disks, SHADOW_MBR_TMO ' Message-ID: <c7tugu$kc$2@pcls4.std.com>   R helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:  I >In article <c7rhgc$e86$1@pcls4.std.com>, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com  >(Michael Moroney) writes:    F >> Non-shadowed drives will "hang" for MVTIMEOUT seconds, or until theD >> serving node reboots and serves the drives again, whichever comesE >> first. (The rebooting node will serve the drive quite early in the O >> boot process).  If MVTIMEOUT expires, the drive goes into MountVerifyTimeout ; >> state and all IOs to it will fail until it is remounted.   J >Remounted where, by what node, when?  I recently had a non-shadowed disk C >become un-mountable and un-dismountable after a node unexpectedly   >crashed and came back up.     Hmmm.  Got all patches?   G >> If a node has a shadowset mounted when it shuts down (which means it F >> crashed, since SHUTDOWN.COM will dismount it), and the set has more0 >> than one member, it will go into merge state.  G >So in a normal shutdown, shadow sets should come up without a copy or  J >merge needed if all members are on nodes which stay up or if all members  >are on the node which reboots?   = It should come up without a copy as long as you reboot within < SHADOW_MBR_TIMEOUT seconds no matter what the configuration.I You'll get a merge if the node crashed without dismounting its shadowsets E properly.  In some versions there is a bug where the drive containing D RIGHTSLIST.DAT (or was it SYSUAF.DAT?) won't get dismounted properly" if they aren't on the system disk. --   -Mike    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 05:29:50 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)I Subject: Re: HBVS, shutdown procedures, dismounting disks, SHADOW_MBR_TMO $ Message-ID: <c7v14d$k5n$2@online.de>  G In article <c7tugu$kc$2@pcls4.std.com>, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com  (Michael Moroney) writes:   H > >> Non-shadowed drives will "hang" for MVTIMEOUT seconds, or until theF > >> serving node reboots and serves the drives again, whichever comesG > >> first. (The rebooting node will serve the drive quite early in the Q > >> boot process).  If MVTIMEOUT expires, the drive goes into MountVerifyTimeout = > >> state and all IOs to it will fail until it is remounted.  > L > >Remounted where, by what node, when?  I recently had a non-shadowed disk E > >become un-mountable and un-dismountable after a node unexpectedly   > >crashed and came back up.   >  > Hmmm.  Got all patches?    Yes.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:07:57 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>( Subject: Re: Help required with CLD file6 Message-ID: <40A2D87D.81B34119@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Ron Atkinson wrote:  > > > I want to be able to enter a command in the following format >  >         > APP CMD /QUAL=<txt>  > H > where the first two characters of the <txt> value are fixed (i.e. AB). > E > In my CLD file the value of QUAL is set to $quoted_string type i.e.  >  > DEFINE SYNTAX   QUAL_SYN > IMAGE           "QUAL.EXE"2 > QUALIFIER       QUAL VALUE (TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING) > F > I guess I want to be able to define a user-defined keyword where theF > first two characters are set to AB and the rest of the string can be > free text. > H > I cannot create a new QUAL.EXE file. So is this possible under VMS 6.2% > purely within the CLD file itself ?p  ; I can't think of a way to do it, but I'm hardly the expert.s  G I don't see a way to impose a protocol that was not programmed into theu4 image originally, regardless of the OpenVMS version.   -- m David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:06:12 +0200-* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>C Subject: Re: HP to can HP/UX? Intel pulls out of IA-64 prematurely?t* Message-ID: <2gf7cmF25bhmU1@uni-berlin.de>   Andrew Harrison wrote: > Dr. Dweeb wrote: >  >> Andrew Harrison wrote:o >> >>>uB >>> In reality you have Mandrake, RedHat, Debian, SuSE, Fedora etcD >>> each of which is slightly different from the other each of whichE >>> requires binarys targetted to that platform. Sometimes you do get1" >>> lucky but sometimes you don't. >>>e >> >>( >> nee nee nee nee -- nee nee nee nee -- >>J >> Oh no, I am entering the twighlight zone, another space and dimension,  >> beingE >> transported to a time when application compatibility accross Unix r >> platformsD >> was a claimed and largely non-existent advantage of Unix* per se. >># >> Is this deja vu all over again ?C >> > ? > Yes except its worse because all the distributions are called ? > Linux all run on x86 and this gives people the "strange" idea   > that they might be compatible. >    LOL Andrew, spot on.    A > At least you had Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, OSF-1 all different namest> > all running on different platforms, much less expectation of > compatibility. >    Exactly.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 00:57:07 GMT  From: "o-o-o" <bkt@null.net>" Subject: installation boot failure< Message-ID: <DJzoc.8222$Fu7.6643@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>  K I have a Digital Server 5000 (same as AlphaServer 1200) on which I'm tryingm to install VMS. I checked here: 3 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/supportchart.html H to see what version of VMS the system will run, and concluded that 7.3-1@ should work. I checked my firmware, and I believe it is current:  	 UPD> listi  F Device         Current Revision    Filename            Update RevisionA AlphaBIOS         V5.70-0          arcrom                 V5.70-0 @ srmflash          V6.0-4           srmrom                 V6.0-4<                                    cipca_fw             A420?                                    dfxaa_fw                3.20s<                                    kzpsa_fw              A12   UPD>  F Yet when I try to boot the 7.3-1 installation CD, I get the following:  I DIGITAL Server 5000 Model 5305 6533A Console V6.0-4, 10-MAY-2001 10:11:42w  
 CPU 0 booting    (boot dka500.5.0.1.1 -flags 0)/ block 0 of dka500.5.0.1.1 is a valid boot blocki& reading 969 blocks from dka500.5.0.1.1 bootstrap code read in Building FRU table3 base = 200000, image_start = 0, image_bytes = 79200- initializing HWRPB at 2000! initializing page table at 1f20000 initializing machine state# setting affinity to the primary CPUc jumping to bootstrap code.A %SYSBOOT-I-FILENOTLOC, Unable to locate SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_EA05.EXE2< %SYSBOOT-E-LDFAIL, failed to load execlet, status = 00000910   halted CPU 0  
 halt code = 5n HALT instruction executed@
 PC = 1f01c boot failure P00>>>  G I am at a loss for what else to check. Any ideas of where to look next?r   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:49:13 GMTu1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> ) Subject: Re: Is ZIP on VMS a process hog?<2 Message-ID: <40A28027.95A944D9@firstdbasource.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:   > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > <snip>  G > Someone else mentioned ZIPping a 16GB file. Not sure ZIP will do that G > unless the result is less than 4GB (4:1 compression, not unheard of).a >t   That would have been me...  Y I dunno Dave... I have a .BCK file that was 1135449 blocks and zip down to 262108 blocks.n  * That's a little better than a 4:1 ratio...   Actually, I would have to go back and redo my testing, but I believe the largest file I zipped was ~54M blocks.  The resultant filer was ~16M blocks... or ~8GB...  so ~3.4:1 ratio -  and took 7-8 hours on a DS20 w 667MHZ CPU's  I was able to view the contents, buth I don't believe I ever restored it.. so it is possible it was corrupt.. I don't have anything that big to test with here at home, so2 it will be a while before I know the real answer..   Michael Austin.e   >' > -- > David J. Dachterao > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ >n* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 15:25:17 -0700 From: lsk55@hotmail.com (Scott)m Subject: Java v 1.4.2-1 = Message-ID: <926edf3b.0405121425.3fc273bd@posting.google.com>i  
 Hi, all...  3 Any known issues with Java v 1.4.2-1 under OpenVMS?n  5 We'd like to know if anyone has had any issues beforeo' we upgrade.  We're using 1.3 currently.$   Thanks!s   ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 23:24:57 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: LIB$INITIALIZE: simple example?3 Message-ID: <Egm+CVODEHYz@eisner.encompasserve.org>   B In article <04051210274664@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org writes:/ > From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen). > N >> >    If you say so.  I assume that the name LIB$INITIALIZE is significant. D >> > Is LIB$INITIALIZ just an aligner/filler where any name will do? > G >> There are VMS-supplied PSECTS which alphabetize just before and justmE >> after LIB$INITIALIZE.  Anything between those PSECTS is taken as anF >> pointer to some code which will be executed by the image activator. > J >    I'd've picked LIB$INITIALIZD instead of LIB$INITIALIZ, but presumably > that's close enough.  > Any PSECT name beginning with LIB$ belongs to the owner of the? LIB facility (VMS Engineering), so there is no chance of anyone 7 using an intervening name (legally) for something else.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:52:28 -0500e@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: longest uptimeh6 Message-ID: <40A2D4DC.6AFBC9C7@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   "Klaus-D. Bohn" wrote: >  > Hello all VMS lovers,  > @ > im searching for the longest uptime from a VMS System/Cluster. > A > If have anyone of you a screen shot "show sys/noproc" and "shows  > cluster" please send it to me.    E Well, I have a cluster that was established well over a year ago, butxH the longest uptime for any member is currently just over 30 days, due to" monthly reboots, patches and such.   -- t David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsg http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:55:32 +0200r* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>5 Subject: Re: OT You'll never guess what HP advertised * Message-ID: <2gf6omF27vimU1@uni-berlin.de>   Dr. Dweeb wrote: > Paul Sture wrote:o >  >>Dr. Dweeb wrote: >>E >>>>>Just what is a MayBach ?? - I will need to resaerch this one :-)n >>>>A >>>>It is Daimler-Chryslers car in the Bentley/R&R class of cars.m >>>> >>>p >>> E >>>Out of my league I guess.  Are they actively sold in Europe, or is2< >>>it a US only thing like a Cadillac from the Chrysler arm? >>>p >>>4 >>- >>The best description I've seen of it, is at  >>+ >>http://auto.howstuffworks.com/maybach.htmh >>G >>Lots of links to follow from which appears it is not just sold in thew >>US.  >  > L > Good link, thanks.  I thought that the name sounded familiar, and the siteK > refreshes that blurry memory from my earlier interest in old cars. Thanksr > Paul.e > I > By the way, they cite "my-bok" as the pronunciation.  Since the word is N > German, I would have expected the "bach" part to be pronounced like Bach (ofM > J.S. fame).  You maybe have better insight into the German language than I.t >   H More like My-Bach (guttural ch ending, depending on area) in my opinion.  F Mind you, the US site for the VW Phaeton claims that it is pronounced A FayTon, whereas I automatically think something akin to "Feeton".l   ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 15:59:37 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)d5 Subject: Re: OT You'll never guess what HP advertisedc3 Message-ID: <QmPUOK9+bm6H@eisner.encompasserve.org>v  W In article <2gf6omF27vimU1@uni-berlin.de>, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:  > H > Mind you, the US site for the VW Phaeton claims that it is pronounced C > FayTon, whereas I automatically think something akin to "Feeton".h > C    The many Phaetons produced by other auto makers have always been     fae-eh-tun, to me.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 04:03:41 +0200m  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>5 Subject: Re: OT You'll never guess what HP advertised - Message-ID: <c7ul1s$30ds$1@news.cybercity.dk>    Paul Sture wrote:e > Dr. Dweeb wrote: >> Paul Sture wrote: >> >>> Dr. Dweeb wrote: >>>IG >>>>>> Just what is a MayBach ?? - I will need to resaerch this one :-)  >>>>>0C >>>>> It is Daimler-Chryslers car in the Bentley/R&R class of cars.t >>>>>  >>>> >>>>G >>>> Out of my league I guess.  Are they actively sold in Europe, or isi> >>>> it a US only thing like a Cadillac from the Chrysler arm? >>>> >>>> >>> / >>> The best description I've seen of it, is atl >>>t- >>> http://auto.howstuffworks.com/maybach.htm  >>>vE >>> Lots of links to follow from which appears it is not just sold ina >>> the US.s >> >>D >> Good link, thanks.  I thought that the name sounded familiar, andD >> the site refreshes that blurry memory from my earlier interest in >> old cars. Thanks Paul.- >>G >> By the way, they cite "my-bok" as the pronunciation.  Since the wordtD >> is German, I would have expected the "bach" part to be pronouncedD >> like Bach (of J.S. fame).  You maybe have better insight into the >> German language than I. >> >lA > More like My-Bach (guttural ch ending, depending on area) in myy
 > opinion. >eG > Mind you, the US site for the VW Phaeton claims that it is pronouncedtC > FayTon, whereas I automatically think something akin to "Feeton".   J Well, we have the diphthong  (as does archaic english, as in encyclopdiaJ or onomatopoa) so I want to read something that cannot be expressed in theG modern english alphabet! :-) But I confess, it is closer to FeyTon than:G FeetOn.  Which reminds me that I must collect my new futon tomorrow :-)   	 Dr. Dweeb@   ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 11:57:47 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)e0 Subject: Re: Parity errors when HSG80 restarted?- Message-ID: <QZf$qPofy0th@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>a  2 In article <40A230D3.B36F479F@firstdbasource.com>,6    Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes:  
 > Malcolm, > S > I do not know when you posted the original message, but basically the metadata ontR > the mirror/raid/disk is toast.  Been there done that!!! and this is how you undoO > it.  The command that should have been executed on the controller was RESTARTsN > OTHER from the  controller NOT being restarted.  In order to get out of thisK > problem, delete the unit, initialize the mirror/raid/disk  (this does NOTwO > overwrite any data!!) add the unit back and assign any selective presentationu > connections. > M    Actually the mirrorsets seem fine. I can still access the disks and Oracle>L restarted with no complaints ( Oracle dies a horrible death if it can't readF a controlfile ), so this appears to be a transient problem. I have theK VMS 7.3-2 FIBRE_SCSI V2.0 patch installed, which I believe may be a problemrI (it's the 7.3-2 analogue of the 7.3-1 FIBRE_SCSI V5.0 patch referenced in  an earlier post )w   ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 12:52:03 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) 0 Subject: Re: Parity errors when HSG80 restarted?- Message-ID: <I668IyIJyQRe@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>   7 In article <40A191BE.10A398FB@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, rF     "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:   > A > *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING ***l > I > There is a problem with the FC-SCSI patch V5 for V7.3-1. Do not install F > this patch, and if you have installed it, back it out IMMEDIATELY!!! > H > Do not attempt to apply the replacement patch (V6) as it has also been > recalled.- > A > *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING ***p >   L    I did have this patch installed ( or rather the 7.3-2 equivalent of it ). I've backed it out now.D  J > Also, contact your support rep. about an update to the HSG firmware, but$ > be ready for some unexpected news.  0    Can you elaborate on what that news might be?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:04:01 -0500i@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>0 Subject: Re: Parity errors when HSG80 restarted?6 Message-ID: <40A2D791.B1F99EF4@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > 8 > In article <40A191BE.10A398FB@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>,H >     "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes: >  > >aC > > *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING ***e > >eK > > There is a problem with the FC-SCSI patch V5 for V7.3-1. Do not install>H > > this patch, and if you have installed it, back it out IMMEDIATELY!!! > > J > > Do not attempt to apply the replacement patch (V6) as it has also been
 > > recalled.u > >vC > > *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING ***a > >  > N >    I did have this patch installed ( or rather the 7.3-2 equivalent of it ). > I've backed it out now.h > L > > Also, contact your support rep. about an update to the HSG firmware, but& > > be ready for some unexpected news. > 2 >    Can you elaborate on what that news might be?  G Hp no longer provides HSG firmware upgrades in the form of PCMCIA cardsi> - you must execute a series of commands (can be scripted usingF Hyperterm(!), KEA, SmartTerm, Reflection, etc.) to patch your existing! cards up to the next rev. levels.g  E Be advised also that V8.7-7 takes away some functionality in HSZTERM. E Not sure quite what, because my partner stopped upgrading our HSGs at B the -6 level. So, V8.7-6 may well be the last usable rev. of HSG80C firmware for sites not using PCM, ConsoleWorks, etc. to manage your  HSGs.   / Again, contact your support rep. for specifics.    -- p David J. Dachteram dba DJE SystemsO http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 19:26:57 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) 0 Subject: Re: Parity errors when HSG80 restarted?- Message-ID: <qbAZwRo1eNNN@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>o  7 In article <40A2D791.B1F99EF4@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, oE    "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:e  M >> > Also, contact your support rep. about an update to the HSG firmware, butR' >> > be ready for some unexpected news.i >>  3 >>    Can you elaborate on what that news might be?0 > I > Hp no longer provides HSG firmware upgrades in the form of PCMCIA cards @ > - you must execute a series of commands (can be scripted usingH > Hyperterm(!), KEA, SmartTerm, Reflection, etc.) to patch your existing# > cards up to the next rev. levels.g >   C    Ah, way ahead of you on that one. The 8.6-4 card seems to be the B highest available, when I had the arrays upgraded to 8.6 last yearC HP ( or was it still Compaq then? ) brought me some 8.6-4 cards andnB then the tech unpacked his laptop and proceeded to load a bunch ofB patches via the console port ( I think they used SmartTerm ). I'veD since installed a few more recent patches that I downloaded from theE net, using C-Kermit as the scripting tool. Not too big a problem oncexC I worked the process out. If the HP website is to be believed ( not F necessarily a safe assumption ) then I'm right up-to-date with patches
 at 8.6-13.  G > Be advised also that V8.7-7 takes away some functionality in HSZTERM. G > Not sure quite what, because my partner stopped upgrading our HSGs at D > the -6 level. So, V8.7-6 may well be the last usable rev. of HSG80E > firmware for sites not using PCM, ConsoleWorks, etc. to manage your  > HSGs.a  K   I'm still on 8.6 and I do the programming either via a terminal connectedDG to the console port or via Storageworks command console. I've not tried B HSZTERM, but I presume it would have the same functionality as theD "command line window" in SWCC? Being an old-timer I prefer the VT510C connected to the console port route - less cruft to get in the way.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:50:36 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>6 Subject: Re: PPP and TCP/IP(UCX) configuration for ISP6 Message-ID: <40A2D46C.EC8AD91E@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>  
 leslie wrote:h > 1 > shakeel-ur-rehman (shakeelj2k@yahoo.com) wrote:OH > : I want to connect to my ISP that uses PPP and in windows 2000 I haveH > : setted to obtain IP automatically and Obtain automaticall DNS serverJ > : address automatically.moreover there is also an setting of use defaultF > : gateway. Now please tell me how to connect to that ISP on Open VMSD > : with the following settings and assignments. Kindly tell me whatI > : things are required like in interface and routing settings of the ucx-> > : configuration. like PPPD dial_out device name details etc. > :i > H > One alternate solution is a device like the Actiontec Dual PC "Modem",> > which is actually a NAT router with a built-in analog modem: > L >    http://www.actiontec.com/products/modems/dual_pcmodem/dpm_overview.html& >    Product Info - 56K External Modem > O >    http://www.actiontec.com/products/modems/dual_pcmodem/dpm_specifications.hm& >    Product Info - 56K External Modem > B > This would allow you to connect your VMS and Windows systems and, > the Actiontec Dual PC Modem with ethernet.  4 An alternative product would be 3com's 56K LANmodem.  C > The Actiontec Dual PC Modem also supports PPPoE if you have a DSL 
 > connection.   C Not sure how a dial-up item (56K modem) fits into the DSL scenario.,   --   David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/0   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:49:13 -0400n* From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>* Subject: Re: Processor Based License Model7 Message-ID: <Nxsoc.1523$U4.1279@bignews6.bellsouth.net>'   Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote:  G > I do know that for PC software, we're already had problems.  We have aJ > engineering design software that is ONLY available for Windows and they C > crucify you with a major license increase if you run on multiple  K > processors.  Well guess what the Intel P4 with HT looks like to Windows, t5 > and to the software running on it?  You guessed it!cH > I agree with you that the licensing models must be rethought, but I'm K > sure that in the eyes of the CA's, Oracle's, HP's, etc., that would mean eC > they are being asked to 'leave money on the table' no matter how .I > short-sighted their perspective might actually be...  I can't see them f* > making that choice quickly, or at all...  M And the really irritating aspect of a hyperthreading CPU appearing as a dual  H CPU SMP system under Windows is that you don't necessarily get the same I performance increase as compared to having 2 separate CPUs with one core oJ each.  If the on-board cache isn't increased and some of the other issues J associated with memory access aren't resolved, you'll get a mult-core CPU J that can't compete performance-wise with separate CPUs.  Things like NUMA F come to mind, along with instruction pre-fetching, pipelining, etc....  K Maybe for databases what we really need is a license that permits X number mL of transactions per seccond to be processed by the database.  If you run it L on hardware that is insufficient to process the licensed TPS volume, that's H fine, you didn't under buy on your licensing and can perform a hardware K upgrade w/o increasing your licensing costs for the database.  But, if you  F do upgrade your hardware and the hardware could now have the database I executing at a TPS rating higher than you are licensed for, the database n= would simply throttle itself back to your licensed TPS limit.-  I Wouldn't this make more sense for database software licensing?  It would DB certainly allow you to have a large SMP server and put a database K application on it that doesn't monopolize the server's resources while not FL also paying through the nose to run that database application on that large  server.u  J And, there's even other ways around the multiple CPU issue on Windows and I Linux systems, too.  Youd could implement server virtualization software oM like VMware [most likely GSX/ESX server] where each virtual machine only has aI a single CPU regardless of how many CPUs the host system has.  Then, you tJ could distribute your database across those multiple virtual machines and L run them in a "clustered" or "distributed" mode and thus bypass the license . fees associated with multiple CPUs per system.     --   Chuck Chopp   8 ChuckChopp (at) rtfmcsi (dot) com http://www.rtfmcsi.com  @ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax Greer, SC  29651  , Do not send me unsolicited commercial email.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:17:41 -0400 * From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>* Subject: Re: Processor Based License Model8 Message-ID: <h9yoc.4524$z41.3415@bignews1.bellsouth.net>   John Vottero wrote:   N > It makes a lot of sense.  Microsoft has already started doing something likeK > this.  MSDE is actually SQL Server with a throttle and a db size limit ofpL > 2GB.  The throttle kicks in at around 5 connections.  You can redistributeM > MSDE with your application (for free).  Lots of applications will work just.K > fine with the throttle.  If performance becomes a problem, you just buy aM > SQL Server license.  > M > Man would I like to have something like this for Rdb.  Digital was close to$J > that when they bundled runtime Rdb with VMS.  Selling Rdb was one of the# > biggest mistakes Bob Palmer made.l  G Yes, in my "day job", I do some Win32 application development for both  I desktop Windows and WinCE, and MSDE is used in both of them.  It is nice hK having a single set of API functions to use when working with the database tM while being able to yank out MSDE and put full-blown SQL Server in its place nJ as the database scales up larger.  And, yes, you are correct in that MSDE L *is* SQL Server 2000, albeit with some throttles on it.  IIRC, you can have C more than 5 connections to the database server in MSDE, but only 5 nI concurrent transactions can be processed at any one time by the database nI engine so the workload is effectively throttled.  But, the thing that is e< missing is all of the admin tools that come with SQL Server.  K I grind my teeth everytime I think of all the stupid assed things that Bob eF Palmer did.  Beyond the sale of RDB, there was that debacle where the P Polycenter suite of tools was sold off to C.A. and that one really burned me up.     -- < Chuck Chopp2  8 ChuckChopp (at) rtfmcsi (dot) com http://www.rtfmcsi.com  @ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax Greer, SC  29651  , Do not send me unsolicited commercial email.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:38:13 -0400.# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o* Subject: Re: Processor Based License Model, Message-ID: <zr2dnbtwArX6KD_d4p2dnA@igs.net>  0 "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message9 news:5Ysoc.6762$eH1.3385927@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com....9 > "Chuck Chopp" <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> wrote in messagea3 > news:Nxsoc.1523$U4.1279@bignews6.bellsouth.net...e > > Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: > >sJ > > > I do know that for PC software, we're already had problems.  We haveH > > > engineering design software that is ONLY available for Windows and theyF > > > crucify you with a major license increase if you run on multipleE > > > processors.  Well guess what the Intel P4 with HT looks like to, Windows,9 > > > and to the software running on it?  You guessed it!yK > > > I agree with you that the licensing models must be rethought, but I'msI > > > sure that in the eyes of the CA's, Oracle's, HP's, etc., that wouldn meanF > > > they are being asked to 'leave money on the table' no matter howL > > > short-sighted their perspective might actually be...  I can't see them. > > > making that choice quickly, or at all... > >6K > > And the really irritating aspect of a hyperthreading CPU appearing as as > dualK > > CPU SMP system under Windows is that you don't necessarily get the sameaL > > performance increase as compared to having 2 separate CPUs with one coreF > > each.  If the on-board cache isn't increased and some of the other issuesI > > associated with memory access aren't resolved, you'll get a mult-core  CPUnH > > that can't compete performance-wise with separate CPUs.  Things like NUMAJ > > come to mind, along with instruction pre-fetching, pipelining, etc.... > > G > > Maybe for databases what we really need is a license that permits X; numberL > > of transactions per seccond to be processed by the database.  If you run > itH > > on hardware that is insufficient to process the licensed TPS volume, > that'sK > > fine, you didn't under buy on your licensing and can perform a hardwareRJ > > upgrade w/o increasing your licensing costs for the database.  But, if you.I > > do upgrade your hardware and the hardware could now have the databasehL > > executing at a TPS rating higher than you are licensed for, the databaseA > > would simply throttle itself back to your licensed TPS limit.e > >,L > > Wouldn't this make more sense for database software licensing?  It wouldE > > certainly allow you to have a large SMP server and put a database5J > > application on it that doesn't monopolize the server's resources while notiI > > also paying through the nose to run that database application on that. > large  > > server.u >wI > It makes a lot of sense.  Microsoft has already started doing somethingm likeK > this.  MSDE is actually SQL Server with a throttle and a db size limit of L > 2GB.  The throttle kicks in at around 5 connections.  You can redistributeH > MSDE with your application (for free).  Lots of applications will work justK > fine with the throttle.  If performance becomes a problem, you just buy ag > SQL Server license.E >pJ > Man would I like to have something like this for Rdb.  Digital was close toJ > that when they bundled runtime Rdb with VMS.  Selling Rdb was one of the# > biggest mistakes Bob Palmer made.m    K Back then the market for tech stocks was just beginning to heat up. I wroteII Palmer suggesting that instead of selling Rdb to Oracle they spin off Rdb K into the market on an IPO, keeping a mid-sized 20% or so stake in the newly1L public company. That was around the time that Rdb was to have been ported to8 Unix and NT (as the DEC announcements went at the time).  L Digital would have realized more than the $120M or thereabouts they receivedK from Oracle, and had a stake in the company as the largest shareholder in a J market of rising stocks. But the Digital Board of Directors was a bunch of! old fossils back then and .......n  G Having the bundled Rdb runtime was a great thing. It helped with a goodt number of sales for us.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 04:17:09 +0200a  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>* Subject: Re: Processor Based License Model- Message-ID: <c7ulr6$30tb$1@news.cybercity.dk>    Chuck Chopp wrote: > Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: ><G >> I do know that for PC software, we're already had problems.  We have:E >> engineering design software that is ONLY available for Windows andaH >> they crucify you with a major license increase if you run on multipleB >> processors.  Well guess what the Intel P4 with HT looks like to? >> Windows, and to the software running on it?  You guessed it!hH >> I agree with you that the licensing models must be rethought, but I'mF >> sure that in the eyes of the CA's, Oracle's, HP's, etc., that wouldH >> mean they are being asked to 'leave money on the table' no matter howD >> short-sighted their perspective might actually be...  I can't see0 >> them making that choice quickly, or at all... > G > And the really irritating aspect of a hyperthreading CPU appearing as G > a dual CPU SMP system under Windows is that you don't necessarily get-E > the same performance increase as compared to having 2 separate CPUsoE > with one core each.  If the on-board cache isn't increased and somerD > of the other issues associated with memory access aren't resolved,E > you'll get a mult-core CPU that can't compete performance-wise witheG > separate CPUs.  Things like NUMA come to mind, along with instruction># > pre-fetching, pipelining, etc....( >hE > Maybe for databases what we really need is a license that permits XOE > number of transactions per seccond to be processed by the database. ? > If you run it on hardware that is insufficient to process thet@ > licensed TPS volume, that's fine, you didn't under buy on yourB > licensing and can perform a hardware upgrade w/o increasing your@ > licensing costs for the database.  But, if you do upgrade yourF > hardware and the hardware could now have the database executing at aA > TPS rating higher than you are licensed for, the database would 9 > simply throttle itself back to your licensed TPS limit.a >a  J Transactions are ephemeral objects, few of which are the same.  A complete0 waste of time as a value for licensing purposes.  
 Dr. Dweeb.  D > Wouldn't this make more sense for database software licensing?  It@ > would certainly allow you to have a large SMP server and put aA > database application on it that doesn't monopolize the server'shG > resources while not also paying through the nose to run that databasei# > application on that large server.t >wG > And, there's even other ways around the multiple CPU issue on WindowssE > and Linux systems, too.  Youd could implement server virtualizationeF > software like VMware [most likely GSX/ESX server] where each virtualD > machine only has a single CPU regardless of how many CPUs the hostD > system has.  Then, you could distribute your database across those< > multiple virtual machines and run them in a "clustered" orE > "distributed" mode and thus bypass the license fees associated withr > multiple CPUs per system._   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 04:18:40 +0200c  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>* Subject: Re: Processor Based License Model- Message-ID: <c7ultv$310l$1@news.cybercity.dk>O   Chuck Chopp wrote: > John Vottero wrote:e >t@ >> It makes a lot of sense.  Microsoft has already started doingD >> something like this.  MSDE is actually SQL Server with a throttleA >> and a db size limit of 2GB.  The throttle kicks in at around 5 E >> connections.  You can redistribute MSDE with your application (for F >> free).  Lots of applications will work just fine with the throttle.G >> If performance becomes a problem, you just buy a SQL Server license.  >>E >> Man would I like to have something like this for Rdb.  Digital was E >> close to that when they bundled runtime Rdb with VMS.  Selling Rdb 3 >> was one of the biggest mistakes Bob Palmer made.M >OH > Yes, in my "day job", I do some Win32 application development for bothE > desktop Windows and WinCE, and MSDE is used in both of them.  It ist > niceC > having a single set of API functions to use when working with the C > database while being able to yank out MSDE and put full-blown SQL  > Server in its place F > as the database scales up larger.  And, yes, you are correct in thatE > MSDE *is* SQL Server 2000, albeit with some throttles on it.  IIRC,FF > you can have more than 5 connections to the database server in MSDE, > but only 5A > concurrent transactions can be processed at any one time by the 
 > databaseG > engine so the workload is effectively throttled.  But, the thing thatEA > is missing is all of the admin tools that come with SQL Server.  >e  ( What has this got to do with TPS ???????   Connections != TPS  C > I grind my teeth everytime I think of all the stupid assed thingsmF > that Bob Palmer did.  Beyond the sale of RDB, there was that debacleG > where the Polycenter suite of tools was sold off to C.A. and that onei > really burned me up.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 18:32:39 +0000 (UTC) 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: Re: Reserved TCP/IP Port Numbers?0 Message-ID: <newscache$016mxh$x9x$1@news.sil.at>  Y In article <c7spa8$16lu@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>, "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes: ; >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in messageh; >news:3086a2ee2d10e3a2e962d8b2e335fb14@news.teranews.com...h > Q >> Note however that it seems that microsoft has abused this list by reusing sometO >> ports for its own purposes, as demonstrated by recent faults in widnows that  >> allow viri to proliferate.e >e+ >Er, what exactly are you talking about JF?    My guessD DCE RPC TCP Port 135 (M$ RPC is not DCE RPC) used by Slammer/MSBlast   -- p Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERr% Network and OpenVMS system specialistm E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 12 May 2004 18:47:06 GMT1 From: schroedingerzkat@aol.com (SchroedingerzKat)"* Subject: Re: Reserved TCP/IP Port Numbers?: Message-ID: <20040512144706.26462.00001371@mb-m07.aol.com>  , >>Er, what exactly are you talking about JF? > 	 >My guessdE >DCE RPC TCP Port 135 (M$ RPC is not DCE RPC) used by Slammer/MSBlastx  ? Slammer / Blast used the RPC DCOM (LSD) exploit of summer 2003.0  K "DCOM is based on the Open Software Foundation's DCE-RPC spec and will work O with both Java applets and ActiveX components through its use of the ComponentS Object Model (COM)."  * http://www.microsoft.com/com/tech/dcom.asp   Michaelh   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:51:12 +0200w, From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl>2 Subject: Re: RZ2DD-LS performance specifications ?* Message-ID: <2gfa58F28o87U1@uni-berlin.de>  I "Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> schreef in 5 bericht news:aOvGNirx28hs@eisner.encompasserve.org... K > Does anyone have the average access time for the RZ2DD-LS, as well as any ! > other performance information ?c >aJ > I've been able to find out that it's a 10,000 rpm drive and that's about it.3 >s	 > Thanks,  >  > Simon. >   3 Apparently the DEC RZ2DD-LS is a Seagate ST39102LC.tC Ref.: http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/specs/scsi/st39102lc.html    ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 13:39:13 -0600 From: gleason@encompasserve.org0= Subject: SCSI controllers for 4000 series microvax, for TZK62i3 Message-ID: <YhjlJLqrclI8@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  A   I've previously asked  the question here of what to use to read_B TA90e tapes after the last of the cluster here gets decommissioned in the next few weeks.  D   Lots of helpful suggestions make it look like the device of choiceD would be a TZK-62 (the more rational suggestion, that we convert theC media to something more modern didn't play well with the management  here).  ?   Irritatingly enough, just as I settled on that solution, the o> AlphaServer 2000 4/275 I had planned to connect the tape drive to got thrown out.  C   I'm look ing around to see what else I might be able to drive it 1> with. I have a MicroVAX 4000-200 and a 4000-300...neither with> SCSI controllers, both running VMS 5.5-2. Can anyone suggest aB SCSI controller that would fit either of those, that would support? the TZK-62? And is VMS 5.5-2 going to recognize the tape drive?g   Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultantse   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:16:26 -0700h+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> A Subject: Re: SCSI controllers for 4000 series microvax, for TZK62c' Message-ID: <40A2780A.5020606@MMaz.com>     gleason@encompasserve.org wrote:  B >  I've previously asked  the question here of what to use to readC >TA90e tapes after the last of the cluster here gets decommissioned  >in the next few weeks.o >7E >  Lots of helpful suggestions make it look like the device of choicehE >would be a TZK-62 (the more rational suggestion, that we convert the.D >media to something more modern didn't play well with the management >here).i >b@ >  Irritatingly enough, just as I settled on that solution, the ? >AlphaServer 2000 4/275 I had planned to connect the tape drive  >to got thrown out.r >lD >  I'm look ing around to see what else I might be able to drive it ? >with. I have a MicroVAX 4000-200 and a 4000-300...neither withs? >SCSI controllers, both running VMS 5.5-2. Can anyone suggest a9C >SCSI controller that would fit either of those, that would support @ >the TZK-62? And is VMS 5.5-2 going to recognize the tape drive? >  >  y > F I believe what you are looking for is the KZCCA which is an ultrawide B SCSI daugherboard for 3100 and 4000 systems.  I've used them in a F 4000/100 and a 4000/700 and they work, but the NIC on them was killed E (compliments of HP/Compaq/DEC) and the SCSI cannot be used as a boot m	 device...g   Barrya   -- <  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:35:26 -0700S+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>aA Subject: Re: SCSI controllers for 4000 series microvax, for TZK62 ' Message-ID: <40A27C7E.9030504@MMaz.com>c   Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote:  " > gleason@encompasserve.org wrote: >nC >>  I've previously asked  the question here of what to use to read E >> TA90e tapes after the last of the cluster here gets decommissionedy >> in the next few weeks.e >>F >>  Lots of helpful suggestions make it look like the device of choiceG >> would be a TZK-62 (the more rational suggestion, that we convert the2F >> media to something more modern didn't play well with the management	 >> here).: >>A >>  Irritatingly enough, just as I settled on that solution, the .A >> AlphaServer 2000 4/275 I had planned to connect the tape drive  >> to got thrown out.n >>E >>  I'm look ing around to see what else I might be able to drive it nA >> with. I have a MicroVAX 4000-200 and a 4000-300...neither with.A >> SCSI controllers, both running VMS 5.5-2. Can anyone suggest aaE >> SCSI controller that would fit either of those, that would supportaB >> the TZK-62? And is VMS 5.5-2 going to recognize the tape drive? >> >>   >>H > I believe what you are looking for is the KZCCA which is an ultrawide D > SCSI daugherboard for 3100 and 4000 systems.  I've used them in a H > 4000/100 and a 4000/700 and they work, but the NIC on them was killed G > (compliments of HP/Compaq/DEC) and the SCSI cannot be used as a boot e > device...f  @ The other major 'negative' is that in their infinite wisdom and I brilliance, they designed these UW interfaces as HVD rather than LVD, so t* you'll need a converter to make it work...   Barryy   -- a  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        s   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:30:31 -0500 (CDT)h From: sms@antinode.orgA Subject: Re: SCSI controllers for 4000 series microvax, for TZK62 ) Message-ID: <04051214303101@antinode.org>e  + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>e  < > >[...]  I have a MicroVAX 4000-200 and a 4000-300... [...]  H > I believe what you are looking for is the KZCCA which is an ultrawide 5 > SCSI daugherboard for 3100 and 4000 systems.  [...]b      According tonG "http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/10358_ca/10358_ca.html",hF no KZCCA variant will work in a 4000-200 or -300, just the newer ones,* like the -10x[A], -50xA, -600A, and -70xA.  C    In those VAXes, I think he's doomed to a Q-bus adapter, like then KZQSA or a third-party card.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-orgl    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547c   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:55:59 -0700m+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>tA Subject: Re: SCSI controllers for 4000 series microvax, for TZK62a% Message-ID: <40A2814F.40609@MMaz.com>a   sms@antinode.org wrote:l  , >From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> >    >e< >>>[...]  I have a MicroVAX 4000-200 and a 4000-300... [...]	 >>>      e >>> H >>I believe what you are looking for is the KZCCA which is an ultrawide 5 >>SCSI daugherboard for 3100 and 4000 systems.  [...]l >>     >> >   According toH >"http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/10358_ca/10358_ca.html",G >no KZCCA variant will work in a 4000-200 or -300, just the newer ones, + >like the -10x[A], -50xA, -600A, and -70xA.d > D >   In those VAXes, I think he's doomed to a Q-bus adapter, like the >KZQSA or a third-party card.  >    >>D You appear to be correct, my oversight...  Perhaps a less expensive G solution all around is to just get a old VAXstation /VLC for $100 that rG has SCSI, and NI cluster it for the temporary tape access...  I didn't >F recall that the 200 & 300 were Qbus, but I have an old QBUS SCSI card I that is still in a MV II (it only had tape support).  Don't remember the  H details of the board or anything, it was used with an old 4mm DAT drive H from Winchester Systems, but if there is off-line interest, let me know ) and I'll get the specifics of the card...t   Barry"   --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:38:16 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>A Subject: Re: SCSI controllers for 4000 series microvax, for TZK62o. Message-ID: <40A252F8.5347.23855F8F@localhost>  C >  I'm look ing around to see what else I might be able to drive it)E > with. I have a MicroVAX 4000-200 and a 4000-300...neither with SCSIg@ > controllers, both running VMS 5.5-2. Can anyone suggest a SCSIC > controller that would fit either of those, that would support the > > TZK-62? And is VMS 5.5-2 going to recognize the tape drive?   B Might I suggest using CHARON-VAX?  It should be able to work with 9 your drive.  And there's no reason to run V5.5, is there?g  
 Check out:  '    http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html0  A [This is a Shameless Plug (tm) from your neighborhood CHARON-VAX t
 reseller.]
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USAt0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:57:35 +0000 (UTC)E From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: SPAM, etc) Message-ID: <c7toif$522$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>t  _ In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIOEMODDAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:s9 >In my never ending efforts to get rid of spam and virii,t; >I come across a lot I don't follow.  I am running MX5.3 ona8 >7.3-1 and I use Outlook as a pop client.  What shows up* >on the subject line appears intelligible, >,< >Stuart, You can delegate authority, but not responsibility. > 9 >Now, I am not stupid enough to open this type of mail inr6 >other than VMS mail, and looking at the 822 header it< >appears as gibbersih.  Is this perhaps a character encoding >that Outlook understands  >MH >Here is the header and then there is a .gif attachment, likely a virus.> >are =?  ?= delimiters that can be used to effectively filter? >6  A The subjectline has apparently been encoded according to RFC 2047rN the =?utf-8? would suggest the message is encoded using utf-8 which is defined by RFC 2279.J The subjectline starts =?utf-8?B  the B indicates this is a version of theJ encoding which would normally be used when the text does not contain just I ASCII characters - when most of the characters are ASCII characters then  L the Q encoding should normally be used. I believe if the Q encoding had beenM used the subject header would have been fairly intelligible in VMS MAIL since*! utf-8 preserves the ASCII coding.i    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University          8 >From:   SMTP%"dugzzfeabrrzwy@attbi.com"  "Clint Jepson" >To:     SMTP%"tom@kednos.com" >CC: >Subj:I >=?utf-8?B?U3R1YXJ0LCBZb3UgY2FuIGRlbGVnYXRlIGF1dGhvcml0eSwgYnV0IG5vdCByZX- >Nwb25zaWJpbGl0eS4=?=a > ( >Return-Path: <dugzzfeabrrzwy@attbi.com>H >Received: from c-24-98-145-242.atl.client2.attbi.com (24.98.145.242) byJ >          FREJA.KEDNOS.COM (MX V5.3 An1f) with SMTP for <tom@kednos.com>;* >          Wed, 12 May 2004 08:51:23 -0700( >Return-Path: <dugzzfeabrrzwy@attbi.com>@ >Received: from gxuhpuyau [14.165.243.176] ([14.165.243.176]) byL >          c-24-98-145-242.atl.client2.attbi.com (3.6.3/attbi.com) with SMTP >idNI >          47740FE2 for <tom@kednos.com>; Wed, 12 May 2004 08:51:16 -0700f) >Message-ID: <A4786$5$21635d51@attbi.com> 0 >From: "Clint Jepson" <dugzzfeabrrzwy@attbi.com># >To: "Romy Warner" <tom@kednos.com>p >  >Press RETURN for more...a >t >MAIL>( >    #10         12-MAY-2004 08:51:24.22 >MAIL 	 >Subject: H >=?utf-8?B?U3R1YXJ0LCBZb3UgY2FuIGRlbGVnYXRlIGF1dGhvcml0eSwgYnV0IG5vdCByZ >XNwb25zaWJpbGl0eS4=?=& >Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:51:16 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0B >Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="dn221635d51-attbi.com" >r >--dn221635d51-attbi.com >Content-Type: text/html;  >        charset="iso-8859-1"a, >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >m? ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">s
 ><HTML><HEAD>d >---' >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.a; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.667 / Virus Database: 429 - Release Date: 4/23/2004m >u   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:14:11 +0000 (UTC)n7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)l Subject: Re: SPAM, etc' Message-ID: <c7tt23$kc$1@pcls4.std.com>l  % "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:g  H >Here is the header and then there is a .gif attachment, likely a virus.> >are =?  ?= delimiters that can be used to effectively filter?  8 >From:   SMTP%"dugzzfeabrrzwy@attbi.com"  "Clint Jepson" >To:     SMTP%"tom@kednos.com" >CC: >Subj:I >=?utf-8?B?U3R1YXJ0LCBZb3UgY2FuIGRlbGVnYXRlIGF1dGhvcml0eSwgYnV0IG5vdCByZXj >Nwb25zaWJpbGl0eS4=?=w  E This is how to use alternate character sets (in this case UTF-8) in anC subject line.  Spammers started doing this to hide from filters butDF now they just do it.  The B (or Q) after the second question mark saysH the subject is in Base-64 (Q=quoted-printable) so it appears as garbage., (quoted-printable would be mostly readable).  G Since I don't expect any email using alternate character sets I use theeB =? as an automatic spam indicator.  (actually I have a few =?XXX? G definitions for several character sets, but I could (and probably will)SG simplify it to just =? since so far I have had no false positives.  FortG some reason I am on some chinese spammer's list and get lots of Chinese  character set spam)h -- v -Mike,   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:52:41 -0400a* From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> Subject: Re: SPAM, etc6 Message-ID: <0Bsoc.1533$U4.457@bignews6.bellsouth.net>   Tom Linden wrote:t  : > In my never ending efforts to get rid of spam and virii,< > I come across a lot I don't follow.  I am running MX5.3 on9 > 7.3-1 and I use Outlook as a pop client.  What shows upd+ > on the subject line appears intelligible,b > = > Stuart, You can delegate authority, but not responsibility.o > : > Now, I am not stupid enough to open this type of mail in7 > other than VMS mail, and looking at the 822 header iti= > appears as gibbersih.  Is this perhaps a character encodingh > that Outlook understands > I > Here is the header and then there is a .gif attachment, likely a virus.l? > are =?  ?= delimiters that can be used to effectively filter?I > 9 > From:   SMTP%"dugzzfeabrrzwy@attbi.com"  "Clint Jepson"n > To:     SMTP%"tom@kednos.com"m > CC:s > Subj: J > =?utf-8?B?U3R1YXJ0LCBZb3UgY2FuIGRlbGVnYXRlIGF1dGhvcml0eSwgYnV0IG5vdCByZX > Nwb25zaWJpbGl0eS4=?=  M It tells you what you need to know, I think, when you see the "utf-8" at the oG start of the subject.  I'm not 100% certain about the "=?" and "?=" as  J delimiters, although they appear to function as such.  I'd have to review K teh SMTP related RFCs to know for certain.  However, the "utf-8" reference fK indicates that the subject line text is encoded in UTF-8 characters rather e% than plain old ANSI/ASCII characters.@     -- ) Chuck Chopp   8 ChuckChopp (at) rtfmcsi (dot) com http://www.rtfmcsi.com  @ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax Greer, SC  29651  , Do not send me unsolicited commercial email.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 18:07:31 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: SPAM, etc) Message-ID: <c7tp53$585$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   J In article <c7toif$522$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:` >In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIOEMODDAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:: >>In my never ending efforts to get rid of spam and virii,< >>I come across a lot I don't follow.  I am running MX5.3 on9 >>7.3-1 and I use Outlook as a pop client.  What shows up:+ >>on the subject line appears intelligible,d >>= >>Stuart, You can delegate authority, but not responsibility.  >>: >>Now, I am not stupid enough to open this type of mail in7 >>other than VMS mail, and looking at the 822 header ita= >>appears as gibbersih.  Is this perhaps a character encodingn >>that Outlook understands >>I >>Here is the header and then there is a .gif attachment, likely a virus.K? >>are =?  ?= delimiters that can be used to effectively filter?  >> > B >The subjectline has apparently been encoded according to RFC 2047O >the =?utf-8? would suggest the message is encoded using utf-8 which is defineda
 >by RFC 2279. K >The subjectline starts =?utf-8?B  the B indicates this is a version of the:K >encoding which would normally be used when the text does not contain just sJ >ASCII characters - when most of the characters are ASCII characters then M >the Q encoding should normally be used. I believe if the Q encoding had beenNN >used the subject header would have been fairly intelligible in VMS MAIL since" >utf-8 preserves the ASCII coding. >   N Sorry to followup my own reply but I just checked and the B encoding is BASE640 encoding whereas Q encoding is Quoted-Printable.  D I should have worked that out without needing to see it in RFC 2047.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University       >b >David Webb  >VMS and Unix team leadern >CCSSr >Middlesex University  >i >e >e >v >i9 >>From:   SMTP%"dugzzfeabrrzwy@attbi.com"  "Clint Jepson"e >>To:     SMTP%"tom@kednos.com"  >>CC:i >>Subj: J >>=?utf-8?B?U3R1YXJ0LCBZb3UgY2FuIGRlbGVnYXRlIGF1dGhvcml0eSwgYnV0IG5vdCByZX >>Nwb25zaWJpbGl0eS4=?= >>) >>Return-Path: <dugzzfeabrrzwy@attbi.com>eI >>Received: from c-24-98-145-242.atl.client2.attbi.com (24.98.145.242) byaK >>          FREJA.KEDNOS.COM (MX V5.3 An1f) with SMTP for <tom@kednos.com>;y+ >>          Wed, 12 May 2004 08:51:23 -0700r) >>Return-Path: <dugzzfeabrrzwy@attbi.com> A >>Received: from gxuhpuyau [14.165.243.176] ([14.165.243.176]) bysM >>          c-24-98-145-242.atl.client2.attbi.com (3.6.3/attbi.com) with SMTPy >>idJ >>          47740FE2 for <tom@kednos.com>; Wed, 12 May 2004 08:51:16 -0700* >>Message-ID: <A4786$5$21635d51@attbi.com>1 >>From: "Clint Jepson" <dugzzfeabrrzwy@attbi.com>d$ >>To: "Romy Warner" <tom@kednos.com> >> >>Press RETURN for more... >> >>MAIL>a) >>    #10         12-MAY-2004 08:51:24.22e >>MAIL
 >>Subject:I >>=?utf-8?B?U3R1YXJ0LCBZb3UgY2FuIGRlbGVnYXRlIGF1dGhvcml0eSwgYnV0IG5vdCByZo >>XNwb25zaWJpbGl0eS4=?=c' >>Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:51:16 -0700  >>MIME-Version: 1.0aC >>Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="dn221635d51-attbi.com"- >> >>--dn221635d51-attbi.coms >>Content-Type: text/html; >>        charset="iso-8859-1"- >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablet >>@ >><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> >><HTML><HEAD> >>---y( >>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< >>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B >>Version: 6.0.667 / Virus Database: 429 - Release Date: 4/23/2004 >>   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 04:34:27 GMTs- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>h Subject: Re: SPAM, etc@ Message-ID: <1b164a83510f8cf67cfb97108eba8eea@news.teranews.com>   Chuck Chopp wrote:L > > =?utf-8?B?U3R1YXJ0LCBZb3UgY2FuIGRlbGVnYXRlIGF1dGhvcml0eSwgYnV0IG5vdCByZX > > Nwb25zaWJpbGl0eS4=?= > N > It tells you what you need to know, I think, when you see the "utf-8" at theH > start of the subject.  I'm not 100% certain about the "=?" and "?=" as7 > delimiters, although they appear to function as such.e  N Actually, the =?urf-8   says that the character set is utf-8.  I suspect it isF the ?B? that says what type of encoding the data is in (probably meansM base-64). I get such subject headers from hotmail users (french canadian) andh& it is coded as =?iso8851-1?B?<garbage>   ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 12:07:27 -0700' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson)m* Subject: Re: SUN fails to advertise VMS...< Message-ID: <734da31c.0405121107.da0725f@posting.google.com>  q Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<c7t03h$bsb$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...i > David Svensson wrote:p > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c7qp4d$jbd$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...Q > >  > >>John Smith wrote:  > >> > >>>t > >>>JF, > >>>lI > >>>Perhaps their ad campaign is a reaction to Customer experiences likeR
 > >>>this: > >>>n > >>B > >>Sadly you would be incorrect, Sun started the HP Away campaign? > >>before HP started their Solaris migarion campaign so unlessk= > >>you have developed a working time machine the reaction is  > >>all the other way arround. > >>> > >>>http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2004/040211a.html6 > >>>"Belkin Plugs in HP Superdome System; Unplugs Sun > >>>  > >  > > H > > If I understand english correctly I don't see that a time machine isA > > needed in this case. He said "experiences like this: ", and I H > > interpret that as the reaction does not have to do directly with theJ > > press release mentioned, but implied a more general view on the issue. > G > How can an add campaign from Sun that started before HP started theirnA > current round of attempts to get Sun customers to migrate to HPy" > be a reaction to HP's campaign ? > B > The only way as I pointed out would be for Sun to have developed< > a working time machine, gone forward 6 months etc etc etc.  @ He did not point out that Suns ad campaign was the cause of HP'sB campaign. He pointed out that Suns ad campaign might have been theF cause of customer experiences such as those in the press release. Such? experiences might have been the case before Sun started it's ad C campaign. That is why I say a time machine is not needed as a basis- for what he said.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 04:13:10 GMTu- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>g< Subject: Re: TCP/IP routing - which is the correct behaviour@ Message-ID: <68eb99037f62c276b5e5ea164be28703@news.teranews.com>   Andrew Rycroft wrote: G > From my PC I can connect to the internal network address as one would2D > expect. I CANNOT connect to the external interface. I believe thisG > also to be correct since the static route to the PC subnet is defined A > as being via the internal network interface. Dynamic routing isW > disabled.h  L If you have the VMS server's intranet at 10.0.0.10 and your PC at 10.0.0.11, with subnet mask fo 10.*.*.*  N Your PC can communicate directly with any 10.*.*.* host since it is assumed to" be on the same (logical) ethernet.  K However, to communicate with a host outside the 10.* subnet, the PC must bet2 given a default route (in PC parlange, "gateway".   O You PC should have as a gateway yoru VMS server's internal address of 10.0.0.10r  F How you set this depends on whether your PC is manually configured, orL configured via DHCP. In the first case, you ise the Windows menus. For DHCP,N you need to update the DHCP server's configuration so that it supplies your PC with a gateway (default route).y   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:48:58 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> E Subject: This is why HP needs to advertise VMS and increase its sales , Message-ID: <pMGdnaQepZQuWz_d4p2dnA@igs.net>   URL for this article: = http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB108430852927508397,00.htmls (subscription required)e   Picking a Big Fight With Dell, H-P Cuts PC Profits Razor-Thin   Risky Strategy Could Helpa Other Hewlett Businesses;e Customers Are the Winners ! By DAVID BANK and GARY MCWILLIAMSi* Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL May 12, 2004; Page A1   K In the past decade, Dell Inc. has surpassed International Business MachinestG Corp., Gateway Inc., and Compaq Computer Corp., riding direct sales andrD ruthless efficiency to become the world's largest seller of personal
 computers.  L Two years ago, Hewlett-Packard Co. looked like the next victim. Instead, H-PI is fighting back, briefly overtaking Dell in PC sales late last year, andaJ drawing Dell into a bloody war of attrition in which consumers are the big winners.  I H-P's radical strategy for challenging Dell: selling PCs without worryinge
 about profit.o  L "We think the PC business is strategic," says Chief Executive Carly Fiorina.L She says she is willing to allow the company's $22 billion computer divisionI to do little more than break even because PC sales help H-P make money onwH printers, consulting and consumer electronics. The company is content toL sell PCs at "a very modest profit for now," says H-P Chief Financial Officer Bob Wayman.G  D The result is the biggest threat yet to Dell, the PC industry's mostL profitable company. Having acquired Compaq in 2002, H-P is using its size toK slash prices, in an attempt to undercut Dell's formula for gleaning profits L in one of the nation's most competitive markets. The challenge puts pressureK on Dell's earnings just as the tech industry is emerging from its prolongedM> slump and consumers are beginning to invest more in computers.  H Still, for H-P, the strategy is a serious gamble. By cutting prices, theL company earns less on each sale, leaving it with less of a cushion to absorbL the inevitable shocks that roil competitive markets. H-P's profit margins in5 its PC division haven't exceeded 1% since the merger.   J Dell continues to post solid profits; its operating profit margins of moreJ than 8% are the widest in the industry. But its executives are complainingK that H-P is subsidizing its PC business with earnings from other divisions,a< which to some suggests Dell is beginning to feel H-P's heat.  L Dell President Kevin B. Rollins says H-P and other rivals have "deferred theC serious pursuit" of profits, in favor of "unprofitable growth in anoA unsustainable effort to protect tangentially related businesses."   J The subsidies impair "the economics of the overall industry," adds MichaelJ S. Dell, the company's founder and chairman. "It's not a healthy process."    J It is healthy for customers. Personal-computer prices industrywide fell byL 9% during the first three quarters of 2003, according to Dell, compared with4 4.5% a year earlier. Laptop prices fell even faster.  I Corporate customers are exploiting the competition. Late last year, GettyeJ Images, the Seattle photo distributor, asked H-P and Dell to compete for aH sale of 500 desktop computers and 165 laptops. Kenneth Stringer, Getty'sI vice president of technical operations, specified how much he expected tos pay for each computer.  H "They both said, 'OK, we're ready to go there,' " Mr. Stringer says. ButI then H-P offered free advice for improving Getty's disaster-recovery plansK and creating a digital archive of more than 70,000 film clips. "Dell seemedrL willing to compete on price, but as for the whole relationship, there wasn't" much interest," Mr. Stringer says.  H With $73 billion in annual sales, H-P offers a broader line of goods andF services than Dell, with $41 billion in sales. And H-P isn't shy aboutI tapping other parts of its empire to help sell PCs. Its credit arm offerseI generous financing terms. The consulting unit advises customers on how to K save money on their technology operations. And H-P cuts prices on printers,r0 cameras and other products bundled with its PCs.  I The goal is to trump Dell's customer pitch, which usually starts with lowaC prices, by making a broader pitch that includes product support and K long-term relationships. Jim Milton, managing director of H-P Americas, who'E leads a force of more than 5,000 sales representatives, says, "When adL customer calls, we darken the sky with resources and worry about how much to charge them later."   I Only a few years ago, H-P didn't seem ready for a price war. In 2000, H-P I and Compaq together sold roughly twice as many PCs as Dell. But they weretC losing money doing it. In the year ended October 2001, the computereI divisions of H-P and Compaq lost a combined $1 billion. The two merged ina	 May 2002.l  L Neither H-P nor Compaq could match Dell's mastery of the computer industry'sK central dynamic: falling prices. Most PCs are assembled from standard partsvD that all manufacturers buy at similar prices. Technological advancesH continually shrink the cost of disk drives, display screens and computerK chips. Each week, those costs fall by roughly 1%, causing PCs to lose valuee, even as they sit in warehouses or showrooms.  L Beginning in the mid-1990s, Dell turned this to its advantage. It flourishedI by building computers to order and selling them directly to consumers andnG businesses over the telephone and the Internet. Dell PCs are built onlysE after a sale is made, with components procured at the cheapest pricesrL available, a cost advantage over rivals of roughly 6% per unit, according to Dell estimates.e  H As Dell was thriving, executives from H-P and Compaq mapped out plans toH take the company on, even before H-P's $19 billion acquisition of CompaqJ became final. For nine months, a team met in a room in an isolated wing ofE H-P's Palo Alto, Calif., headquarters, the so-called clean room whereeH executives shared secrets away from the still-competing operating units.  L The team made plans to stop losing money in the soon-to-be-combined PC unitsH of the two companies, agreeing to cut costs and close weak businesses asG soon as the deal closed in May 2002. The executives killed H-P's VectrafH desktops and Omnibook laptops and Compaq's Evo workstations, among other product lines.  K The merged company, which kept the Hewlett-Packard name, became the biggest L buyer of computer components including memory chips, semiconductors and diskJ drives. It quickly began leveraging that clout to negotiate for discounts,F including 5% savings from the contract manufacturers that assemble itsK computers. Within months, H-P had shaved an average of $26 from the cost oftK building a PC, compared with Compaq's pre-merger costs, according to an H-P 
 executive.  F The result: H-P cut losses in the PC unit by roughly two-thirds in the fiscal year ended October 2002.c  G But the retrenchment came at a price. In the fall of 2002, Dell for the2L first time sold more PCs than H-P and Compaq combined. Senior H-P executivesK again changed strategy. The goal had been to turn losses into profits. Now,iL it settled for breaking even in the PC market and decided to go after market/ share by slashing prices and pumping up volume.a  D "I was worried we would be considered noncompetitive," says Duane E.J Zitzner, a longtime H-P executive who was named to head the PC division of the new company.  J H-P was sometimes willing to sell PCs at a loss to some big customers, theL company's executives say, in hopes of ringing up profits on sales of relatedI services such as financing and maintenance. Over the long haul, H-P hoped-F the cheap PCs would keep competitors, such as IBM and Dell, out of big	 accounts.g  C From a "war room" in California, Mr. Milton's H-P sales team guidedrF representatives through negotiations, armed with a breakdown of Dell'sJ production costs and details of its negotiating strategy in similar deals.H Executives from H-P's five divisions hosted a daily 90-minute conference- call to help reps put together package deals.s  J At Starbucks Corp., Walt Disney Co. and elsewhere, H-P lured new customersJ with technology "partnerships." The Starbucks marketing plan, with fundingD from H-P, lets coffee drinkers download songs at coffee shops, usingK wireless connections, which Starbucks hopes will attract more laptop-totingCF customers. To cement an alliance with Disney, H-P agreed to buy ads on$ Disney Web sites and at theme parks.  L The cross-selling strategy doesn't always work. In 2002, H-P won a multiyearL deal to supply PCs, and offer help-desk services, to the 40,000-student KatyI Independent School District, west of Houston, which had previously boughtjJ computers from Dell. But less than six months later, the district canceledK the deal amid complaints from teachers about long waits for assistance fromMI the help desk. An H-P spokesman declined to comment on the case directly.l  B In spring 2003, Dell underbid H-P by roughly 5% and recaptured theF district's PC purchases. Scott Wright, the school district's executiveK director of technology, says Dell delivers computers faster -- in less than / a week compared to two or three weeks with H-P.w  L Dell says it encourages sales managers to walk away from unprofitable deals.K "When the competition does desperate things, we're not going to follow themo down a hole," says Mr. Rollins.e  J Beating Dell won't be easy. From a nerve center in Round Rock, Texas, justL outside Austin, Dell executives tap the company's Web-based sales machine toH monitor the profitability of every customer, product and promotion. DellI tracks component supplies, using pricing and promotions to shift customern! demand to higher-profit products.t  K Like an airline selling flight seats, Dell uses "dynamic pricing" to adjust J prices minute-by-minute based on demand, costs, competition, and even typeL of customer. On Dell's Web site recently, the same Optiplex business desktopK PC priced at $1,498 for education customers was offered at $1,426 on a pageo! devoted to health-care customers.o  K Dell is quick to capitalize on each H-P misstep. Last summer, H-P's PC unitcL reported a surprising quarterly loss. Unexpected supply bottlenecks promptedI unusual price increases for the components used to make computers. HavingdF managed the computer division to break even, the sudden component costH increases meant a loss. Ms. Fiorina, H-P's chief executive, blamed it onC "overly aggressive" price cutting and promised "corrective action."   F The next day, Dell trumpeted price cuts on a range of PCs. Some of theE announced discounts were weeks old and others applied to discontinued J models, but Dell proved its point: By selling direct, it can adjust pricesI immediately. H-P's network of retailers doesn't have such flexibility; it-9 can take retailers weeks just to get ads into newspapers.2  K Despite Ms. Fiorina's pledge, H-P had little choice but to continue drivinguI prices lower to boost sales. It sold the Atlanta weather forecasting firmgF Weather Channel Cos., nearly $500,000 in PC-based servers in December,K knocking 30% off its prices with little haggling. "They really came in very.@ aggressive on prices," says Kevin Gungiah, a director of systems" administration at Weather Channel.  J The discounts seemed to work. In the fourth quarter of last year, H-P soldL more computers than Dell, and was quick to claim victory. "You see a companyH in Dell that is challenged in the way they never have been in their coreK market," said Ms. Fiorina. "And you have a company in H-P that is beginning : to break away in terms of market share and revenue gains."  L But the victory would soon be reversed, as Dell retook the lead in the firstH quarter of 2004. Dell's share of the world-wide PC market grew to 16.5%,G from 14.6% in the first quarter of 2003, according to market researcher K Gartner Inc. H-P's share was 14% in the first quarter, up from 13.5% a yeara earlier.  F The industry was left wondering about the wisdom of H-P's tactics. H-PK shipped more computers, especially laptops, toward the end of the year thanoK its distributors and retailers could sell. The resulting inventory build-up ; depressed sales early this year and again cut into profits.   I Goldman Sachs analyst Laura Conigliaro estimates that after adjusting foruI unsold computers, Dell's laptop sales grew more quickly than H-P's in the4F fourth quarter. H-P executives acknowledge that they still can't matchK Dell's financial tools or efficiency. Even now, only about one-fifth of its  PCs are built to order.r  H Still, the competition with H-P may be taking a toll on Dell. Its higherK profit margins give it more flexibility than H-P to lower prices and remain I in the black. But Dell has been lowering prices faster than H-P in recent- quarters, analysts say.   K "We're going to trade No. 1 back and forth for quite a long time," says Ms.:B Fiorina. "We think we are putting plenty of pressure on their core
 business."     -------m  A Maybe if they bundled in some OpenVMS servers they could wean the I PC-purchasing puppets into appreciating a real operating system for their> businesses.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 04:01:21 +0200w* From: "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com>I Subject: Re: This is why HP needs to advertise VMS and increase its saleso- Message-ID: <c7uktn$30bh$1@news.cybercity.dk>t  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message& news:pMGdnaQepZQuWz_d4p2dnA@igs.net... > URL for this article:t? > http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB108430852927508397,00.htmln     Interesting article.  	 > -------o >hC > Maybe if they bundled in some OpenVMS servers they could wean thebK > PC-purchasing puppets into appreciating a real operating system for theirr
 > businesses.   J HP would have to bundled in free education and service until the customersH have learnt to deal with a documented OS were you cannot point an click.I Basically HP would have to provide extensive support to the new VMS usershL until the new user had grown accustomed to VMS.  Otherwise the new operatorsL will end up thinking that VMS is crap.  It is unlikely that HP by doing thisK could market VMS as anything but a server operating system for PC networks.E9 It would be an expensive way of getting into that market.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:15:22 -0400e# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>sI Subject: Re: This is why HP needs to advertise VMS and increase its salesa, Message-ID: <f5udnV819qygRz_dRVn-tA@igs.net>  5 "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message ' news:c7uktn$30bh$1@news.cybercity.dk...i >P0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message( > news:pMGdnaQepZQuWz_d4p2dnA@igs.net... > > URL for this article: A > > http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB108430852927508397,00.htmlg >u >c > Interesting article. >  > > -------i > >xE > > Maybe if they bundled in some OpenVMS servers they could wean theyG > > PC-purchasing puppets into appreciating a real operating system fora their0 > > businesses.  > L > HP would have to bundled in free education and service until the customersJ > have learnt to deal with a documented OS were you cannot point an click.K > Basically HP would have to provide extensive support to the new VMS usersrD > until the new user had grown accustomed to VMS.  Otherwise the new	 operatorsxI > will end up thinking that VMS is crap.  It is unlikely that HP by doingd thisC > could market VMS as anything but a server operating system for PC-	 networks.-; > It would be an expensive way of getting into that market.     K That sounds suspiciously like the slogan of the so-called OpenVMS Marketingl0 Department - "Nothing ventured is a good thing".   ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 12:55:52 -0700& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan). Subject: XFC experiences on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0405121155.3d5b0b5a@posting.google.com>n  C Got an Alpha VMS system running V7.3 that I can't currently upgrade E due to production contraints.  I have been given a window in a couple F of weeks to update patches to current (last patch installed was UpdateB V2); that will include Update V3 and any class 1 or needed class 2F patches.  I note that XFC patch is up to version 4.  We've not enabledE XFC on this node, despite the presence of the earlier XFC patches due0D to the early problems that were reported, I believe even with the V1 patch.  @ As long as we're doing the work, I'd like to enable XFC once theB patches are installed.  The nature of the work done on that systemA would make that a big win, and they have plenty of memory to makel? better use of.  I Realize that VMS V7.3 is not the most popular E version to 'stick at', but I'd still like to know how its working fore, folks out there with XFC enabled.  Thanks...   Rich JordanI   ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 16:23:29 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i2 Subject: Re: XFC experiences on OpenVMS Alpha V7.33 Message-ID: <Sz9cU9RkKhVO@eisner.encompasserve.org>'  f In article <cc5619f2.0405121155.3d5b0b5a@posting.google.com>, jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes:E > Got an Alpha VMS system running V7.3 that I can't currently upgrade1G > due to production contraints.  I have been given a window in a couple H > of weeks to update patches to current (last patch installed was UpdateD > V2); that will include Update V3 and any class 1 or needed class 2H > patches.  I note that XFC patch is up to version 4.  We've not enabledG > XFC on this node, despite the presence of the earlier XFC patches duedF > to the early problems that were reported, I believe even with the V1 > patch.  D    You just need a couple more patches.  One is called 7.3-1 and the    other is called 7.3-2.C  9    If you're changing software, you're changing software.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:32:29 GMT 5 From: brad@rabbit.dnsalias.org (Bradford J. Hamilton)e2 Subject: Re: XFC experiences on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3/ Message-ID: <wRvoc.35649$iF6.3543958@attbi_s02>/  f In article <cc5619f2.0405121155.3d5b0b5a@posting.google.com>, jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes:D !Got an Alpha VMS system running V7.3 that I can't currently upgradeF !due to production contraints.  I have been given a window in a coupleG !of weeks to update patches to current (last patch installed was Update C !V2); that will include Update V3 and any class 1 or needed class 20G !patches.  I note that XFC patch is up to version 4.  We've not enabled-F !XFC on this node, despite the presence of the earlier XFC patches dueE !to the early problems that were reported, I believe even with the V1n !patch.n !fA !As long as we're doing the work, I'd like to enable XFC once thefC !patches are installed.  The nature of the work done on that systemeB !would make that a big win, and they have plenty of memory to make@ !better use of.  I Realize that VMS V7.3 is not the most popularF !version to 'stick at', but I'd still like to know how its working for- !folks out there with XFC enabled.  Thanks...p !s  O XFC 4 is fine for me on VMS 7.3.  No issues since installation in late March ofM
 this year.   !Rich Jordan  J __________________________________________________________________________A Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own"tK bMradAhamiPltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt     "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-' e0                                          with @"   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:18:24 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised) Message-ID: <c7tm90$4a7$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>A  Y In article <c7t5n1$rrh$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> writes:a >e, ><david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message$ >news:c7t39j$rlo$1@news.mdx.ac.uk...I >> I doubt if you meant this but one reading of your statement above is :r >>J >> HP shouldn't market it's best product because it will hurt sales of its >other >> not so good products.L >> That would seem to be rather stupid strategy since it would hamstring any: >> company following that policy against it's competitors. >-K >It is you who call it HP's best product.  HP-UX generates more sales so it.B >is a better product when it comes to getting a black bottom line. >)  H No you said that marketing VMS would result in lost HP-UX and NSK sales.L That could only happen if some customers considered it better than the otherF offerings. If it was worse than the other offerings then it could not  hurt HP-UX or NSK sales.  M As I stated I believe that VMS, HP-UX, NSK , windows and linux all have their1N strengths and weaknesses and all have their appropriate place. It is therefore* right for HP to push all of its offerings.L On the otherhand you are saying that HP should not market VMS since it would$ hurt sales of HP-UX and NSK systems.O This is nonsense since if HP-UX and NSK do not provide what the customer wants ZA then they will look elsewhere which is not a good result for HP. M  @ You started off by stating that VMS (particularly in the area of< clustering/fault tolerance) was stuck between HP_UX and NSK.G This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Clustering and fault tolerant 
 technologies.e   1) Fail-over clusteringC  2    Needs redundant equipment to be failed over to.    Failover may take sometime.   2) Fault tolerant system      Needs hardware duplication.G    Copes with hardware failure but software bug causing system to crasha     will lead to loss of service.O    If there is a hardware failure processes will continue without interruption.@     3) VMS style cluster  &    Load shared across cluster members.H    Hardware or software failure on one cluster member will not result inD    loss of service. Processes running on failed system will be lost.    M These are very different solutions. Which solution is appropriate will dependF upon the customer's needs.  L Now some Unix systems (Solaris, Tru64) have moved someway from pure failoverN systems towards VMS style clustering but still suffer from severe limitations.  F Saying that VMS is better at somethings than HP-UX or NSK doesn't hurtL those operating systems since they have their own advantages in other areas.J If a feature important to a customer is better on VMS than HP-UX it might J result in a VMS rather than a HP-UX sale. However if HP-UX is weak on thatO feature other vendor's unix systems might be better hence HP-UX might well havei( lost that sale to another vendor anyway.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University       >Karsten Nybladr  >ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot com >  >l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:02:12 +0200t* From: "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised- Message-ID: <c7tvs9$215e$1@news.cybercity.dk>-  + <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in messagem# news:c7tm90$4a7$1@news.mdx.ac.uk...>? > In article <c7t5n1$rrh$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad". <nospam@nospam.com> writes:wJ > No you said that marketing VMS would result in lost HP-UX and NSK sales.  B I started out with saying that it could be difficult to explain toH management types why OpenVMS is better than HP-UX with enhancements fromI Tru64 and when to use NonStop instead of these two.  You to be capable toiJ explain in a simple language and such that non IT people understand why HPJ has two cluster solutions plus an FT solution.  If you cannot, chances areH that the management people will think that HP is unfocused and that theyJ might drop one of the cluster solutions in the future.  If that happens HPJ will get no sale at all.  You have to be capable of telling the differenceI in a very short period of time, because you will get only so much time to@/ tell them all the things you want to tell them.X      H VMS might be considerably better than HP-UX as it is now, but HP-UX withJ enhancements from Tru64 should be ready in little over a year.  You do notI revive a product like an operating system because you intend to sell it a  little over a year.h      K One thing more:  A campaign for VMS much capture enough customers from HP'soL competitors to finance the campaign.  Customer coming from NonStop and HP-UX< do not count because they do not generate new revenue to HP.       Karsten Nyblad ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 16:20:46 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised3 Message-ID: <MWuDDFoYIqM+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <c7tvs9$215e$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> writes: > D > I started out with saying that it could be difficult to explain toJ > management types why OpenVMS is better than HP-UX with enhancements fromK > Tru64 and when to use NonStop instead of these two.  You to be capable tocL > explain in a simple language and such that non IT people understand why HPL > has two cluster solutions plus an FT solution.  If you cannot, chances areJ > that the management people will think that HP is unfocused and that theyL > might drop one of the cluster solutions in the future.  If that happens HPL > will get no sale at all.  You have to be capable of telling the differenceK > in a very short period of time, because you will get only so much time top1 > tell them all the things you want to tell them.c  E    Microsoft seems to have multiple concepts they call "clusters", asrH    well as multiple products.  So does management refuse to by Microsoft    clusters?  A    You keep repeating the same multiple-soultions-is-bad, we keepdC    telling you that we don't buy it.  You keep claiming VMS is losteB    somewhere between HP-UX and NonStop.  We don't buy that either.  .    Can we get on to something less repetitive?   ------------------------------   Date: 12 May 04 14:44:52 EDT) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) 2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised! Message-ID: <2PQDaoxoox85@wvnvms>l  q In article <H8S1f2KuRfAN@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: r > In article <242b39f4397c01ef5e7522346b4ececc@news.teranews.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >> Bob Koehler wrote:i >>F >>>    IBM has canceled the 360 in favor of the 370.  They canceld theD >>>    original AIX/PC2 combo, and radically changed AIX before theyL >>>    tried it again.  They haven't supported 026 card punches for decades. >> l >> nO >> Sorry, but the 360 is still alive today. 370->370->390->whatever the name iszJ >> this week is the same architecture, just like the pentium 4 is the sameA >> architecture as the first pentium or the 8086 for that matter.g > H >    No its not.  P4 uses the same instruction set as the first Pentium.B >    Its a binary compatable superset of the 8086 under restrictedI >    circumstances.  The architecure changed from 8086 to 80286 and again C >    from 80286 to 80386.  Since 386 the architecture hasn't reallye& >    changed, just the implementation. > H >    370 is still alive today, but is not using the same instruction setA >    as 360.  370 is based on 360 and early 370 systems had a 360yD >    compatability mode, but it is not 360.  The was an architectureC >    change to go from 360 to 370, since 370 things have not reallyi' >    changed at the architecture level.> > B Maybe there is a semantics issue here??  When I started work at myC present location, we were running a 360 and 370 with a shared spoolcC (one of the very few if not the only such setups in the world).  MyGE application (i.e. no systems programming) assembler programs compiled0D and ran equally well on either the 360 or 370.  Yes, the orginal 370D instruction set contained 51 or so new instructions (as of 1981) butD almost all of them were priviledged or semi-priviledged instructionsD (i.e., normally only used by the OS).  It might be possible to argueF that they are different architectures based on the 370 being a virtualB memory system, however if I recall correctly one of the 360 models# (360/67?) supported virtual memory.V  @ By the definition you appear to be using, you would have to callC it a new architecture when DEC added the vector instructions to thei VAX instruction set.     George Cookc WVNETS   ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 16:17:45 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)u2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised3 Message-ID: <mnMlJHSbhNqm@eisner.encompasserve.org>   M In article <2PQDaoxoox85@wvnvms>, cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) writes:1D > Maybe there is a semantics issue here??  When I started work at myE > present location, we were running a 360 and 370 with a shared spoolrE > (one of the very few if not the only such setups in the world).  MycG > application (i.e. no systems programming) assembler programs compiledsF > and ran equally well on either the 360 or 370.  Yes, the orginal 370F > instruction set contained 51 or so new instructions (as of 1981) butF > almost all of them were priviledged or semi-priviledged instructions' > (i.e., normally only used by the OS).a  E    The 360 used 16 bit addressing, typically stored in a 32 bit word.e.    The 370 uses 18 or more bits of addressing.  B    Some 360 programmers, in order to save space in the memory theyB    had, used the high 16 bits of address words to save other data.  F    When a 370 runs in 360 compatability mode it adds an extra cycle toI    mask off the high 16 bits of each 32 bit address word so that any datar<    stored there won't be interpreted as part of the address.  J    370s that we ran with would automatically run in 360 compatability modeC    when a 360 image was loaded, just as VAX-11 series we used woulduG    automatically switch to PDP-11 compatability mode when a PDP-11 task E    was loaded.  PDP-11 compatability mode being a completly differentoC    set of microcode in part because the instruction encodings were ;    significantly different.   C    IBM didn't really change the assembler other than to add new 370nE    opcodes and then generate 370 object files with appropriate 18 bit F    addresses in the address words.  So 360 assembly programs look like    valid 370 assembly programs.b  D    DEC could have, but didn't simply extend the PDP-11 assembler to G    make the VAX assembler, as there were changes to the non-instructiontD    directives to add things VMS wanted to know (e.g. different PSECT:    options), it would have been a little confusing to haveH    MOVB, MOV, MOVL, ... instead of MOVB, MOVW, MOVL, ..., and they addedH    an addressing mode (just 1 IIRC).  So PDP-11 assembly programs aren'tD    valid VAX assembly programs.  But if you saw some of the Macro-32D    written by experienced Macro-11 programers, youl'd see a lot more$    similarity than you might expect.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 03:54:21 +0200e  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised- Message-ID: <c7ukge$302j$1@news.cybercity.dk>z   Karsten Nyblad wrote:v- > <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in messages% > news:c7tm90$4a7$1@news.mdx.ac.uk...e@ >> In article <c7t5n1$rrh$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad"C >> <nospam@nospam.com> writes: No you said that marketing VMS woulda& >> result in lost HP-UX and NSK sales. > D > I started out with saying that it could be difficult to explain toE > management types why OpenVMS is better than HP-UX with enhancements E > from Tru64 and when to use NonStop instead of these two.  You to be E > capable to explain in a simple language and such that non IT peopleeF > understand why HP has two cluster solutions plus an FT solution.  IfG > you cannot, chances are that the management people will think that HPeG > is unfocused and that they might drop one of the cluster solutions iniG > the future.  If that happens HP will get no sale at all.  You have to F > be capable of telling the difference in a very short period of time,D > because you will get only so much time to tell them all the things > you want to tell them. >e >o >sE > VMS might be considerably better than HP-UX as it is now, but HP-UXnE > with enhancements from Tru64 should be ready in little over a year.y  K If you are willing to pay for a promised future, then you are permanantaly,r3 irrevocabley placed in J.P.Barnums famous category.wI If you you ar unaware of what this is, the popular vernacular is "idiot",pB though in your obvious case I might concede "sprog" or "neophyte".  L I listened to a similar clown make this argument 10 years befor a particularI feature was even partially available in Unix, as a an argument for MOVINGCI AWAY from VMS to Unix.  Sadly, the moron collected his exhorbitant salaryDK and the corporation suffered severely for their folly for quite a long time2 afterwards.A  L Og det var et stort dansk firma, og "guruen" var en idiot dansker.  S dansk( at det gr ondt.  Kort sagt, en "moron".  B > You do not revive a product like an operating system because you) > intend to sell it a little over a year.r >   ! I do not understand this comment.l    	 Dr. Dweebn >  >tC > One thing more:  A campaign for VMS much capture enough customerseF > from HP's competitors to finance the campaign.  Customer coming fromA > NonStop and HP-UX do not count because they do not generate newc > revenue to HP. >i >P >w > Karsten Nyblad! > ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot comb   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 05:22:18 +0200 * From: "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised, Message-ID: <c7uple$34h$1@news.cybercity.dk>  + "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com> wrote in messagec' news:c7ukge$302j$1@news.cybercity.dk... ? > If you are willing to pay for a promised future, then you arem
 permanantaly,u5 > irrevocabley placed in J.P.Barnums famous category. K > If you you ar unaware of what this is, the popular vernacular is "idiot",zD > though in your obvious case I might concede "sprog" or "neophyte". > C > I listened to a similar clown make this argument 10 years befor an
 particularK > feature was even partially available in Unix, as a an argument for MOVINGnK > AWAY from VMS to Unix.  Sadly, the moron collected his exhorbitant salary,H > and the corporation suffered severely for their folly for quite a long time
 > afterwards.s >,H > Og det var et stort dansk firma, og "guruen" var en idiot dansker.  S danskp* > at det gr ondt.  Kort sagt, en "moron".  J Gee, what a language.  I am feeling like back in the good old days of Carl Lydick.o  I No, I am careful not to put to much faith into roadmaps.  Once I bought auI type wheel printer, and the Danish letter  on one of the type wheels wassK not printed on the line.  It was a type wheel we did not need, so I did notgG care that much.  I was told that the problem would be fixed, but when Id* asked a year later, I got the same answer.  I Second time:  Digital told me that there would most likely be support foroK SMTP in UCX in version 1.3.  When version 13a showed it was not there.  Not 7 a big problem since MX was free and you could buy PMDF.,  K But I learned not to trust roadmaps.  I would not buy a software product oneI promises, I cannot get in writing.  An oral promise tends to be worth thenK paper it is written on.  When I can, I avoid products were all I can get isy written promises.   D > > You do not revive a product like an operating system because you+ > > intend to sell it a little over a year.e > >  >t# > I do not understand this comment.c  L David wrote that clustering in VMS is much better than clustering in currentD HP-UX.  But that does not seem to be true 1-2 years from now.  So inL principle HP could try actively selling VMS in the 1-2 years time span untilG HP-UX gets better clustering.  I just do not think that would be a goodo idea.t   Karsten Nyblad ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot coml   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 06:27:01 +0200o* From: "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised, Message-ID: <c7uten$6lr$1@news.cybercity.dk>  2 "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3145A9@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net...? >> True.  But most bugs can be fixed without understanding morer
 >> than a fewi >> hundred lines of code.n  D >Please, this is getting silly - you do not fix OS kernel, security,I >cluster and driver problems by only understanding a few hundred lines oflI >code. Especially ones which deal with loading, cluster interaction, race F >problems caused by faster servers, intermittent crashes (hw?/os?/isv? >software issues?) etc ...  J OK, you get a longer answer.  I would avoid using an unsupported operatingG system when ever I can.  Unfortunately there is always a risk ending uprF running an important application on unsupported hardware and software.  F Even if you buy operating systems large market share from big softwareL vendors, there is a chance that the operating system becomes EOLed some timeL in the future.  Just look at VMS.  It was a very successful operating systemK for many years.  HP might stop supporting it some times in the future.  LeteJ us assume that happens.  There will be organizations that will want to useG VMS after HP has stopped support.  What do you think these organization K would like if given these two options:  1)  HP opens the sources of VMS anda= makes it freely available.  2)  HP shreds the sources of VMS.r  I You are right that many of the problems you list, are difficult to solve,eJ but do you really think, e.g., security problems are necessarily difficultL to solve once the problems have been disclosed?  E.g., do you think you needH to understand an entire application to fix a buffer over round?  In that4 case I know one consultant I am never going to hire.  K Try thinking about the bugs fixes you have made during your career.  Do youaG agree with me in that the main part of those have been fixed just a fewt lines?    Karsten Nybladi ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot comp   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 04:26:14 GMTn- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>m2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised@ Message-ID: <283e357c10ee63b4ffa97fb790d13ebb@news.teranews.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:H >    370 is still alive today, but is not using the same instruction setA >    as 360.  370 is based on 360 and early 370 systems had a 360t+ >    compatability mode, but it is not 360.l    M My 370 assembler card says the opposite. It has 360 instruction set with someHE added instructions/opcode present only on 370s. Just like Intel addedn9 instructions on Pentiums (such as stuff for games/video).   N How the instruction set is actually done in hardware can change from iterationH to iteration, but that is transparent to the applications and to a large extend the OS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 04:45:51 GMTm- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>i2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised@ Message-ID: <ab84b36381d0e39d67a1404647337fc0@news.teranews.com>   Karsten Nyblad wrote:cM > One thing more:  A campaign for VMS much capture enough customers from HP'seN > competitors to finance the campaign.  Customer coming from NonStop and HP-UX> > do not count because they do not generate new revenue to HP.  L The above would work for a normal product. However, you need to consider theK damage caused to VMS by previous owners. A new owner would need to undo theh# damage done and damage in progress.a  L VMS need to first be marketed in order to retain existing customers, many ofL which have long term plans to get off VMS. So cush advertising would yield 0C short term payback, and in fact 0 measurable payback because you're K influencing long term plans. But in the long term, HP should see measurablenM decrease in attrition rate. But such advertising must be sustained for a longs! time before results would appear.   M However, such advertising can be justified by stating that they are necessary K spending to maintain the current levels of revenus VMS generates and to fixo( the damage done by VMS' previous owners.  I The smam business equivalent would be a restaurant advertising "under newdT management, give us a second try and you'll see how we're improving the restaurant".    G Once HP has made it very clear that it intends to keep VMS and existingcL customers start to believe HP, then HP can concerntrate on marketing VMS forF new customers, at which point, it can start to see short term returns.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:47:41 -0400h# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>c Subject: [OT]: Re: SPAM, etc, Message-ID: <7LidnffDVrICKj_d4p2dnA@igs.net>  . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIOEMODDAA.tom@kednos.com...n: > In my never ending efforts to get rid of spam and virii,< > I come across a lot I don't follow.  I am running MX5.3 on9 > 7.3-1 and I use Outlook as a pop client.  What shows upt+ > on the subject line appears intelligible,r >D= > Stuart, You can delegate authority, but not responsibility.  >l: > Now, I am not stupid enough to open this type of mail in7 > other than VMS mail, and looking at the 822 header itm= > appears as gibbersih.  Is this perhaps a character encoding  > that Outlook understands   <snip>   Tom,  J If you aren't bound to Outlook for the contact manager and are really onlyI using it for e-mail, try Eudora instead. Great filtering tools - supports A regular expressions in filters to really clobber the nasty stuff.a  F I have about 150 filters which keep my world well organized. My filterK accuracy rate is about 99.99% now - no crap gets through, though I may haveiJ it easier than you as I simply have a rule that certain TLD's, like .cn orH .ru etc.. are simply trashed as I don't have clients there, so I have no need to filter beyond that.t  J Eudora and all my mailboxes with thousands of messages fits on a 256mb USBK flash memory stick. Since Eudora doesn't install anything meaningful in the H Windows registry it can be run off the USB stick on any Windows machine.L Stick it in your pocket and travel. You can buy USB sticks that are password/ or biometric protected to keep prying eyes out.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:42:47 -0400o' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>g, Subject: RE: [OT]: What's Sun really saying?R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB314624@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>  
 Kerry Main Solutions Architectt Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Serviceso Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com =20b   > -----Original Message------ > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20s > Sent: May 12, 2004 6:52 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu* > Subject: [OT]: What's Sun really saying? >=20@ > Also, let me [be] really clear about our Linux strategy. We=20 > don't have one. B > We don't at all. We do not believe that Linux plays a role on=20
 > the server.nB > Period. If you want to buy it, we will sell it to you, but we=20 > believe thatA > Solaris is a better alternative, that is safer, more robust,=20o > higher quality4 > and dramatically less expensive in purchase price.5 > [Jonathan Schwartz, Executive VP - Software, Sun=20s > Microsystems, 19 Sep 2003]5 > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1274614,00.asp$ >=20 >=20H > What's most disappointing is there appears to be no real commitment toA > Linux. Are you, or aren't you, moving your desktops? I guess=20  > I just don't! > understand your Linux strategy.e5 > [Jonathan Schwartz, Executive VP - Software, Sun=20f > Microsystems, in an open > memo to IBM, 21 Jan 2004]  >=20  ) John - looks like url to story was moved:m  3 [Jonathan Schwartz, Executive VP - Software, Sun=20h Microsystems, 19 Sep 2003]; http://www.eweek.com/print_article/0,1761,a=3D107461,00.asp    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultants HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660r Fax: 613-591-4477e Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcomn. (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.264 ************************