1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 13 May 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 265       Contents:- Anyone here using products from this company? 3 Re: Determining amount of  space used on a DLT tape  Re: DFO and SET FILE/NOMOVE % Disk errors using ANALYZE or DIAGNOSE ) Re: Disk errors using ANALYZE or DIAGNOSE  Re: EVE customizations Getting Hammered Re: Help required with CLD file # HP Enterprise organizational change # Icon (ico file) search for DCL lite  Re: installation boot failure  Re: installation boot failure  Re: installation boot failure  Re: installation boot failure  Re: installation boot failure  Re: Java v 1.4.2-1 RE: Java v 1.4.2-1 Re: longest uptime Re: longest uptime2 Oracle touts Linux Integity (sic.) and reliability, Re: OT You'll never guess what HP advertised, Re: OT You'll never guess what HP advertised' Re: Parity errors when HSG80 restarted? : Poor VMS file create performance compared to Linux/FreeBSD> Re: Poor VMS file create performance compared to Linux/FreeBSD> Re: Poor VMS file create performance compared to Linux/FreeBSD) Re: RZ2DD-LS performance specifications ? 8 Re: SCSI controllers for 4000 series microvax, for TZK628 Terry Shannon's "HP: Two Years Post-Merger Presentation"$ Timestamp format stored in RMS file?( Re: Timestamp format stored in RMS file?( Re: Timestamp format stored in RMS file?( Re: Timestamp format stored in RMS file? VMS, tftp & ftp questions  Re: VMS, tftp & ftp questions ) Re: XFC experiences on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) RE: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:33:54 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 6 Subject: Anyone here using products from this company?, Message-ID: <qKqdnfKrm9j0CD7dRVn-vA@igs.net>   http://www.netapp.com   	 Opinions?    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:09:45 GMT 2 From: Bob Willard <BobwBSGS@TrashThis.comcast.net>< Subject: Re: Determining amount of  space used on a DLT tape/ Message-ID: <dAJoc.39268$536.7113059@attbi_s03>    tr dorr wrote:  = > Is there a way to determine how much data is on a DLT tape? H > It would be useful to know what the compation ratio is and how much of. > the tape is used? Is there a way to do this? >  > 	 > Thanks,  > Tom   G Compression ratio is highly data-dependent.  Tests run on the first DLT D controller showed a c.r. range from <1:1 to 30:1.  We decided to useA a de facto industry-standard c.r. of 2:1 as a simplification (OK,  gross over-simplification).   A Data that has been pre-compressed does not compress well, and may D actually expand when compressed, since the compression metadata mustD be written along with the data.  Text compresses pretty well; 2:1 is@ a reasonable ballpark estimate.  ISTR that the 30:1 c.r. was for@ blocks of all 0's or, probably, for blocks of any repeated byte.F Surprisingly, executables sometimes compressed better than I expected,4 due IIRC to blocks of initialized data and the like. --   Cheers, Bob    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:46:25 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) $ Subject: Re: DFO and SET FILE/NOMOVE1 Message-ID: <B6Koc.1373$%U2.532@news.cpqcorp.net>   w In article <c7v12j$k5n$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: 2 >In article <3Rtoc.1324$Lf2.397@news.cpqcorp.net>,7 >hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes:   > G >> The OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS I64 installation and upgrade procedure K >> ensures that the files which require SET FILE/NOMOVE have this attribute I >> set.  If they have not been changed, it should not be necessary to run  >> SETFILENOMOVE.COM.  > C >In that case, it might be a good idea for the DFO installation to  @ >indicate that perhaps executing SETFILENOMOVE is not necessary.   I will forward that suggestion.    --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 May 2004 01:13:02 -0700# From: sinobato@yahoo.com (Sinobato) . Subject: Disk errors using ANALYZE or DIAGNOSE= Message-ID: <ec657b64.0405130013.17b871e9@posting.google.com>   
 Hi VMS Gurus,   F Is there a documentation out there that will give you some hints on 1.C what particular section of an ANALYZE/ERROR or DIAGNOSE to look at, @ and 2. the specific disk errors that are produced when you do an' ANALYZE/ERROR or DIAGNOSE? For example:   F  ERROR SEQUENCE 7297.                            LOGGED ON:        SID 13002602F  DATE/TIME 11-MAY-2004 00:31:13.74                            SYS_TYPE 04130002   SYSTEM UPTIME: 47 DAYS 15:08:22F  SCS NODE: MYNODE                                              VAX/VMS V5.5-2H4  ?  DEVICE ERROR KA49  CPU Microcode Rev # 2.  CONSOLE FW REV# 1.3 A                       Standard Microcode Patch    Patch Rev # 19.   ,  GENERIC DK SUB-SYSTEM, UNIT _MYNODE$DKA100:          HW REVISION     34303131 9                                        HW REVISION = 1104         ERROR TYPE            05 C                                        EXTENDED SENSE DATA RECEIVED         SCSI ID               01 3                                        SCSI ID = 1.         SCSI LUN              00 4                                        SCSI LUN = 0.        SCSI SUBLUN           00 7                                        SCSI SUBLUN = 0.         PORT STATUS     00000001 ?                                        %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL, NORMAL 
 SUCCESSFUL2                                         COMPLETION        SCSI CMD        3D000028                         0000F9B6                             0001 4                                        READ EXTENDED        SCSI STATUS           02 6                                        CHECK CONDITION    EXTENDED SENSE DATA          EXTENDED SENSE  000300F0                         0AF9B63D                         00000000                         80EA0011                             1100 3                                        MEDIUM ERROR C                                        UNRECOVERED READ ERR IN DATA         UCB$B_ERTCNT          00 ;                                        0. RETRIES REMAINING         UCB$B_ERTMAX          00 ;                                        0. RETRIES ALLOWABLE         ORB$L_OWNER     00010004 :                                        OWNER UIC [001,004]        UCB$L_CHAR      1C4D4008 ;                                        DIRECTORY STRUCTURED 4                                        FILE ORIENTED/                                        SHARABLE 0                                        AVAILABLE.                                        MOUNTED4                                        ERROR LOGGING7                                        CAPABLE OF INPUT 8                                        CAPABLE OF OUTPUT4                                        RANDOM ACCESS        UCB$W_STS           0000         UCB$L_OPCNT     02817364 @                                        42038116. QIO'S THIS UNIT        UCB$W_ERRCNT        000B ;                                        11. ERRORS THIS UNIT         IRP$W_BCNT          0200 A                                        TRANSFER SIZE 512. BYTE(S)         IRP$W_BOFF          0000 <                                        TRANSFER PAGE ALIGNED        IRP$L_PID       0060008B 6                                        REQUESTOR "PID"        IRP$Q_IOSB      00000000 C                        00000000        IOSB, 0. BYTE(S) TRANSFERRED   D This error seems to be critical due to the MEDIUM ERROR message, butA it also seems to be non-critical as the port status says it had a  normal successful completion.   E I have already tried looking at the VMS manuals but there are no such C information there. Hopefully, by knowing at least some ideas on the D criticality of these error messages, I will know when to escalate to+ the vendor or just ignore an error message.     Thanks in advance for your help. Sinobato   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:28:15 +0100 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>2 Subject: Re: Disk errors using ANALYZE or DIAGNOSE& Message-ID: <c7vf6g$jr$1@lore.csc.com>   Sinobato wrote:   H > Is there a documentation out there that will give you some hints on 1.E > what particular section of an ANALYZE/ERROR or DIAGNOSE to look at, B > and 2. the specific disk errors that are produced when you do an) > ANALYZE/ERROR or DIAGNOSE? For example:      No - read on...    > H >  ERROR SEQUENCE 7297.                            LOGGED ON:        SID
 > 13002602H >  DATE/TIME 11-MAY-2004 00:31:13.74                            SYS_TYPE
 > 04130002" >  SYSTEM UPTIME: 47 DAYS 15:08:22H >  SCS NODE: MYNODE                                              VAX/VMS
 > V5.5-2H4 > A >  DEVICE ERROR KA49  CPU Microcode Rev # 2.  CONSOLE FW REV# 1.3 C >                       Standard Microcode Patch    Patch Rev # 19.  > . >  GENERIC DK SUB-SYSTEM, UNIT _MYNODE$DKA100:    H This is the first issue, GENERIC DK, so not a recognized VMS device [for this VMS version]...   > ! >        HW REVISION     34303131 ; >                                        HW REVISION = 1104 ! >        ERROR TYPE            05 E >                                        EXTENDED SENSE DATA RECEIVED ! >        SCSI ID               01 5 >                                        SCSI ID = 1. ! >        SCSI LUN              00 6 >                                        SCSI LUN = 0.! >        SCSI SUBLUN           00 9 >                                        SCSI SUBLUN = 0. ! >        PORT STATUS     00000001 A >                                        %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL, NORMAL  > SUCCESSFUL4 >                                         COMPLETION! >        SCSI CMD        3D000028 ! >                        0000F9B6 ! >                            0001 6 >                                        READ EXTENDED! >        SCSI STATUS           02 8 >                                        CHECK CONDITION >  >  EXTENDED SENSE DATA > ! >        EXTENDED SENSE  000300F0 ! >                        0AF9B63D ! >                        00000000 ! >                        80EA0011 ! >                            1100 5 >                                        MEDIUM ERROR E >                                        UNRECOVERED READ ERR IN DATA   H It is contained in the above fields. You will need the manufacturer dataA for the drive you are using, and you should be able to decode the . extended sense data into something meaningful.  ? The text, well, I would be dubious of its accuracy as you've no A guarantee that a generic device reports the same sense codes as a 6 "Digital Storage Architecture" compliant device would.      ! >        UCB$B_ERTCNT          00 = >                                        0. RETRIES REMAINING ! >        UCB$B_ERTMAX          00 = >                                        0. RETRIES ALLOWABLE ! >        ORB$L_OWNER     00010004 < >                                        OWNER UIC [001,004]! >        UCB$L_CHAR      1C4D4008 = >                                        DIRECTORY STRUCTURED 6 >                                        FILE ORIENTED1 >                                        SHARABLE 2 >                                        AVAILABLE0 >                                        MOUNTED6 >                                        ERROR LOGGING9 >                                        CAPABLE OF INPUT : >                                        CAPABLE OF OUTPUT6 >                                        RANDOM ACCESS! >        UCB$W_STS           0000 ! >        UCB$L_OPCNT     02817364 B >                                        42038116. QIO'S THIS UNIT! >        UCB$W_ERRCNT        000B = >                                        11. ERRORS THIS UNIT ! >        IRP$W_BCNT          0200 C >                                        TRANSFER SIZE 512. BYTE(S) ! >        IRP$W_BOFF          0000 > >                                        TRANSFER PAGE ALIGNED! >        IRP$L_PID       0060008B 8 >                                        REQUESTOR "PID"! >        IRP$Q_IOSB      00000000 E >                        00000000        IOSB, 0. BYTE(S) TRANSFERRED  > F > This error seems to be critical due to the MEDIUM ERROR message, butC > it also seems to be non-critical as the port status says it had a  > normal successful completion.  > G > I have already tried looking at the VMS manuals but there are no such E > information there. Hopefully, by knowing at least some ideas on the F > criticality of these error messages, I will know when to escalate to- > the vendor or just ignore an error message.   H But are you seeing the first attempt at the read failed logged, then the second attempt was successful?   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:17:39 +0000 (UTC) - From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)  Subject: Re: EVE customizations . Message-ID: <c80ajj$34v$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> writes in article <mddu0ysoyra.fsf@panix5.panix.com> dated 07 May 2004 14:52:57 -0400:> >koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > B >> In article <cs9u0yt3cnq.fsf@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>, Andreas Davour >> <ante@update.uu.se> writes: > @ >>> I've just started using EVE for some VAX COBOL programming.  > K >>> Having used emacs and its ability to recognize files and automatically  I >>> start the right "code-mode", I was wondering if there was some way to  >>> make EVE do the same?   J See LSE (Language Sensitive Editor), part of Decset.  It's built on top of TPU.  O >As is Emacs, which does not *force* any coding standards on anyone, but rather P >simply allows those who wish to, to use them.  It's just more easily programmed
 >than EVE.  F I can't imagine anything simpler than the learn-^R sequence, but maybeD you're talking about the TPU language, which is sort of Pascal-like.  N >(This posting, for example, was written *and transmitted* from within Emacs.)  K This one was written and transmitted from within EVE.  Nyaah, nyaah, nyaah! 9 [I hardly ever say "nyaah, nyaah, nyaah" in tech groups.]   0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:45:23 GMT 6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <KFarmer@NOSPAM.SpyderByte.com> Subject: Getting Hammered = Message-ID: <7SLoc.29235$V_.1203121@twister.southeast.rr.com>   A Hammered is the word, or should I say Inquirered or maybe Inq'ed.   A I got up this morning and the network was dragging butt.  Terry's L presentation being mention on The Inquirer coupled with Golden Egg downloadsK is knocking the crap out of my bandwidth.  I had over 20 people downloading K Terry's presentation at one time and over 20 people downloading Golden Eggs 5 at the same time, not to mention the regular traffic.   G This business class Road Runner cable connection is becoming a problem. L I've had them pump up the bandwidth and it seems to have helped.  At least I0 can now pull up webpages and get my mail faster.  < Sorry for the slowness, should get better as the day passes.   Ken    -- Kenneth Farmer  <><  OpenVMS.org  |  dcl.OpenVMS.org               7 "Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message $ news:2gh8c7F2ppi0U1@uni-berlin.de...J > As reported by The Inquirer at http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=158798 > Terry Shannon's has a presentation up in PDF format at > C > http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=04/05/12/7726404  > I > Terry claims "It took me 150 hours out of a 168-hour week to render the I > slideware reasonably consistent with HP standards; you can download the G > results in just a few minutes.", but I must assume that his server is H > either getting hammered or is somewhat sick, as it felt like 150 hours > to download it.  > G > The PDF pages containing graphics took ages to render too, so to save @ > others the frustration I've knocked up some quick web pages at > 0 > http://www.sture.homeip.net/itanium/index.html >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:58:19 +0100 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>( Subject: Re: Help required with CLD file& Message-ID: <c7vdeh$1n$1@lore.csc.com>   Ron Atkinson wrote:  > > > I want to be able to enter a command in the following format >  >         > APP CMD /QUAL=<txt>  > H > where the first two characters of the <txt> value are fixed (i.e. AB). > E > In my CLD file the value of QUAL is set to $quoted_string type i.e.  >  > DEFINE SYNTAX   QUAL_SYN > IMAGE           "QUAL.EXE"2 > QUALIFIER       QUAL VALUE (TYPE=$QUOTED_STRING) > F > I guess I want to be able to define a user-defined keyword where theF > first two characters are set to AB and the rest of the string can be > free text. > H > I cannot create a new QUAL.EXE file. So is this possible under VMS 6.2% > purely within the CLD file itself ?    Couple of things.   D Check out the Command Definition Utility manual (part of programmingC set, available online, later version will be OK). I'm not an expert G though so I don't know if it will address what you need. An alternative 9 is to use a DCL front end and parsing the input that way.   E Also I'd be tempted to replace the "QUAL.EXE" with a suitable logical G name, e.g. "QUALEXE" and you could DEFINE QUALEXE to the file location. ; You would not then have to keep fiddling with the CLD file.    --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:29:36 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> , Subject: HP Enterprise organizational change, Message-ID: <1ZidnZ6Kcsb1CT7d4p2dnA@igs.net>  ( This story is just making the press now.    L http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1208&e=10&u=/cmp/20040513/t c_cmp/20300676&sid=95573650     . Gonzalez to Oversee HP's Storage, Server Sales   Wed May 12, 2004 Joseph F. Kovar, CRN  E Hewlett-Packard has quietly moved to put its server and storage sales F organizations under a unified command with the May 1 promotion of MarkK Gonzalez to the position of vice president of the Americas for *enterprise*  storage and server sales.   J Gonzalez said the move is the culmination of a shift in HP's thinking overI the past year from a focus on product lines to a focus on customer needs.   J "The reality is, everything is about the customer," he said. "If you focus; on what the customer asks you to do, nothing can go wrong."   K HP, Palo Alto, Calif., currently serves three types of customers: corporate J and enterprise; public sector, including government, health and education;0 and small and midsize businesses, Gonzalez said.  J Many customers in the three categories are facing issues regarding server,I storage and supplier consolidation. The latter is especially important as I customers increasingly demand relationships with fewer vendors but expect K more from partners, especially those that can provide end-to-end solutions,  he said.  G "Customers complain when different people come in and say they work for I different groups within HP," Gonzalez said. "Customers say, 'Whoa, you're K confusing me. ... I just want to deal with one person carrying an HP card.'  "   H The focus on customer needs and customer types has a particularly strongI advantage for the channel, Gonzalez said. HP has about 12,000 accounts in L the United States with more than 1,000 employees each. Of those, the companyK focuses its direct sales on about 750 customers, but they are still open to % work with the channel if they choose.   F "If HP focuses on 750 customers, then there are many accounts servicedL exclusively by the channel where it's to HP's disadvantage to go direct," heH said. "There is absolutely no way HP can lead direct in any more cases."  K As customers look to consolidate suppliers, it makes sense for them to also D consolidate their server and storage purchases on a single supplier,G Gonzalez said. "Over 50 percent of server dollars are spent on storage, H according to IDC," he said. "If we don't offer storage with our ProLiantJ servers, we are selling half a loaf of bread. The easiest customer to deal with is an existing customer."  L By combining storage and server sales into a single organization but keepingH specialists in specific areas such as Unix (news - web sites) servers orL Superdome servers, HP and its partners are better able to focus specifically( on customer requirements, said Gonzalez.  K "Before, I ran storage," he said. "Now I run storage and servers. Before, I D had to ask the server people, 'We gotta work together, we gotta work8 together.' Now, I tell them they have to work together."  J Gonzalez said he also expects the unified sales organization to help driveH more predictability in the channel by showing partners how much they canF benefit by doing business with HP, leading to a much more consultative8 relationship between the company and solution providers.  J "So instead of throwing things against the wall to see what sticks, we canJ now consult with partners," he said. "Think about it, from who can you getE more G2 intelligence than channel partners? They touch thousands more  customers than we do."     ----------------  3 Now we start writing him about OpenVMS efforts too.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:48:02 +0100 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>, Subject: Icon (ico file) search for DCL lite' Message-ID: <c7vjs6$23i$1@lore.csc.com>   F I was searching for an icon for use with Acceler8's DCL lite, and fell
 over this:  1 http://www.cs.jhu.edu/~fezzik/virtualboy/vms.html   % Sega's Visual Memory System, aka VMS.   E Anyway, back to subject in hand, anyone got or using a reasonable ICO  file for this?  # You can get the software from here:     http://www.accelr8.com/dcll.html   Thanks,  --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:26:03 +0100 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>& Subject: Re: installation boot failure' Message-ID: <c7vbht$sp6$1@lore.csc.com>    o-o-o wrote: > M > I have a Digital Server 5000 (same as AlphaServer 1200) on which I'm trying ! > to install VMS. I checked here: 5 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/supportchart.html J > to see what version of VMS the system will run, and concluded that 7.3-1B > should work. I checked my firmware, and I believe it is current: > ...  > jumping to bootstrap code C > %SYSBOOT-I-FILENOTLOC, Unable to locate SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_EA05.EXE > > %SYSBOOT-E-LDFAIL, failed to load execlet, status = 00000910  ) $ EXIT %X910 is no such file of course...   F I would check that your OS type is set to VMS. I tried looking for theF name of that file at askq.compaq.com but I'm none the wiser as to whatH it is for. On our 7.3-2 Alpha, the highest number the CPU routines imageH is named is 270F. It is almost as if you need a very specific version ofD VMS for the box, or the operating system loader is getting something wrong.  B You have some implicit support I believe, having paid for or beingC eligible to the update contractually, so I would consider raising a 
 support call.   G Another question, has this system ever run VMS? Can you find that named  file in SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES: ?  < I would also run up the firmware CD and do a verification...   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 06:06:46 GMT % From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> & Subject: Re: installation boot failure6 Message-ID: <WfEoc.7086$Lf.2734@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>   Are you positive that  a.) your VMS7.3-1 CD is good. H b.) Your CD drive is good. (this is your more likely source of why it is	 failing.)   D If you do a verbose boot  you should be able to see the exact error./ B dka500 -fl 0,30001  (If I remember correctly)   % o-o-o <bkt@null.net> wrote in message 6 news:DJzoc.8222$Fu7.6643@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...F > I have a Digital Server 5000 (same as AlphaServer 1200) on which I'm trying! > to install VMS. I checked here: 5 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/supportchart.html J > to see what version of VMS the system will run, and concluded that 7.3-1B > should work. I checked my firmware, and I believe it is current: >  > UPD> list  > H > Device         Current Revision    Filename            Update RevisionC > AlphaBIOS         V5.70-0          arcrom                 V5.70-0 B > srmflash          V6.0-4           srmrom                 V6.0-4> >                                    cipca_fw             A420A >                                    dfxaa_fw                3.20 > >                                    kzpsa_fw              A12 >  > UPD> > H > Yet when I try to boot the 7.3-1 installation CD, I get the following: > K > DIGITAL Server 5000 Model 5305 6533A Console V6.0-4, 10-MAY-2001 10:11:42  >  > CPU 0 booting  >   > (boot dka500.5.0.1.1 -flags 0)1 > block 0 of dka500.5.0.1.1 is a valid boot block ( > reading 969 blocks from dka500.5.0.1.1 > bootstrap code read in > Building FRU table5 > base = 200000, image_start = 0, image_bytes = 79200  > initializing HWRPB at 2000# > initializing page table at 1f2000  > initializing machine state% > setting affinity to the primary CPU  > jumping to bootstrap code C > %SYSBOOT-I-FILENOTLOC, Unable to locate SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_EA05.EXE > > %SYSBOOT-E-LDFAIL, failed to load execlet, status = 00000910 >  > halted CPU 0 >  > halt code = 5  > HALT instruction executed  > PC = 1f01c > boot failure > P00>>> > I > I am at a loss for what else to check. Any ideas of where to look next?  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:31:57 +0800 + From: Tim E Sneddon <tesneddon@bigpond.com> & Subject: Re: installation boot failure* Message-ID: <2ggmjmF2i62aU1@uni-berlin.de>   o-o-o wrote:M > I have a Digital Server 5000 (same as AlphaServer 1200) on which I'm trying   H I've never heard of a Digital Server 5000 myself. Is this the "whitebox" AlphaServer 1200?   ! > to install VMS. I checked here: 5 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/supportchart.html J > to see what version of VMS the system will run, and concluded that 7.3-1B > should work. I checked my firmware, and I believe it is current: >  > UPD> list  > H > Device         Current Revision    Filename            Update RevisionC > AlphaBIOS         V5.70-0          arcrom                 V5.70-0 B > srmflash          V6.0-4           srmrom                 V6.0-4> >                                    cipca_fw             A420A >                                    dfxaa_fw                3.20 > >                                    kzpsa_fw              A12 >  > UPD> > H > Yet when I try to boot the 7.3-1 installation CD, I get the following: > K > DIGITAL Server 5000 Model 5305 6533A Console V6.0-4, 10-MAY-2001 10:11:42  >  > CPU 0 booting  >   > (boot dka500.5.0.1.1 -flags 0)1 > block 0 of dka500.5.0.1.1 is a valid boot block ( > reading 969 blocks from dka500.5.0.1.1 > bootstrap code read in > Building FRU table5 > base = 200000, image_start = 0, image_bytes = 79200  > initializing HWRPB at 2000# > initializing page table at 1f2000  > initializing machine state% > setting affinity to the primary CPU  > jumping to bootstrap code C > %SYSBOOT-I-FILENOTLOC, Unable to locate SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_EA05.EXE   ' As far as I can tell, it doesn't exist.   ? I don't know heaps about the OpenVMS Alpha boot process, but... ; I'm guessing that "EA05" is some sort of CPU identification = that the OpenVMS bootstrap fetches from the firmware. This is 5 then used to build the filename for the CPU-specific  < SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_*.EXE image. It can't load it because there
 isn't one.  : If this is a "whitebox" chances are OpenVMS won't have the necessary modules to boot.  > > %SYSBOOT-E-LDFAIL, failed to load execlet, status = 00000910 >  > halted CPU 0 >  > halt code = 5  > HALT instruction executed  > PC = 1f01c > boot failure > P00>>> > I > I am at a loss for what else to check. Any ideas of where to look next?   H You might no be able to do anything if this is a WindowsNT-only machine.  
 Regards, Tim.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 May 2004 05:43:56 -0700- From: martin.platts@cdl.co.uk (Martin Platts) & Subject: Re: installation boot failure= Message-ID: <b367fb16.0405130443.289e5da5@posting.google.com>    Google is your friend...   http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=00256937.0045DD3E.00%40quegw01.btyp&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26q%3DSYS%2524CPU_ROUTINES_EA05.EXE%26btnG%3DSearch%26meta%3D    :D   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:05:37 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) & Subject: Re: installation boot failure1 Message-ID: <59Moc.1389$q53.642@news.cpqcorp.net>   [ In article <DJzoc.8222$Fu7.6643@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>, "o-o-o" <bkt@null.net> writes: L :I have a Digital Server 5000 (same as AlphaServer 1200) on which I'm trying  :to install VMS. I checked here:4 :http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/supportchart.htmlI :to see what version of VMS the system will run, and concluded that 7.3-1  :should work.   ,   Once more into the breach, dear friends...  J   The Whitebox Alpha systems are not supported by OpenVMS, as indicated byL   the lack of a listing in the cited support chart, and as indicated by textK   in the FAQ, and as indicated by various topics in the Ask The Wizard area    asking about this.    J   Again, the Microsoft Windows NT (only) Alpha systems -- often refered toI   as the "whitebox" Alpha systems -- are not supported by OpenVMS.   This I   includes all members of the DIGITAL Server series boxes, all members of J   the DIGITAL Professional Workstation (PWS) boxes with an -a designation,!   and the DECpc 150 AXP series.     ?   These Windows NT (only) systems ARE NOT SUPPORTED by OpenVMS.   G :Yet when I try to boot the 7.3-1 installation CD, I get the following:  : J :DIGITAL Server 5000 Model 5305 6533A Console V6.0-4, 10-MAY-2001 10:11:42 :  :CPU 0 booting :  :(boot dka500.5.0.1.1 -flags 0) 0 :block 0 of dka500.5.0.1.1 is a valid boot block .. :jumping to bootstrap codeB :%SYSBOOT-I-FILENOTLOC, Unable to locate SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_EA05.EXE= :%SYSBOOT-E-LDFAIL, failed to load execlet, status = 00000910     D   That's a central indication of an unsupported processor -- OpenVMSA   has no code for the particular processor type -- your system is A   identifying itself as a DIGITAL Server series system, and these 3   Alpha systems are (wait for it :-) not supported.   H :I am at a loss for what else to check. Any ideas of where to look next?     The OpenVMS FAQ:  $     http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq     Specifically:   <     SYSBOOT-I-FILENOTLOC, Unable to locate SYS$CPU_ROUTINES?6     OpenVMS on the Whitebox Windows-Only series Alpha?  H   Support aside, you might be able to get this box to bootstrap OpenVMS.F   But you'll have to work at it some, you'll have to check the PCI andG   system configuration, you won't have support, and the result might or )   might not be stable or even functional.   I   Various of the Whitebox systems have integral motherboard hardware that I   is incompatible with the operation of OpenVMS.  (One of the more common F   problem areas involves the southbridge -- anyone that tells you thatE   *all* whitebox Alpha systems *will* run OpenVMS is *wrong*, as some G   of the southbridges used on some of the whiteboxes are not compatible H   with OpenVMS.  We had no end of trouble with some of the southbridges.F   I'm here ignoring the usual and obvious PCI widget support, which is/   another area that you will have to evaluate.)    	--   F   ps: as you've undoubtedly searched the FAQ for this information, andG   were clearly unable to locate it, please let me know what your searchOE   target(s) were and I'll re-word and/or re-index the information forhA   the next edition; I'll continue on my quest to exterminate thiss"   Alpha Whitebox support question.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comr   ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 23:02:25 -0700. From: dieter.rossbach@gmx.de (dieter rossbach) Subject: Re: Java v 1.4.2-1g= Message-ID: <e1d40caf.0405122202.7a4df489@posting.google.com>c   > 5 > Any known issues with Java v 1.4.2-1 under OpenVMS?s >   F Yes. We found some bugs in the IP-support with 1.4.2-1, 1.4.2-2 is theD right version to install, all the bugs we reported to them are fixed in this version.   Regards Dieter   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:57:31 -0400e' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>n Subject: RE: Java v 1.4.2-1IR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB314665@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----: > From: dieter rossbach [mailto:dieter.rossbach@gmx.de]=20 > Sent: May 13, 2004 2:02 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi > Subject: Re: Java v 1.4.2-1l >=20 > >=207 > > Any known issues with Java v 1.4.2-1 under OpenVMS?  > >=20 >=20H > Yes. We found some bugs in the IP-support with 1.4.2-1, 1.4.2-2 is theF > right version to install, all the bugs we reported to them are fixed > in this version. >=20 > Regards Dieter >=20  C As a fyi, here is the pointer for the V1.4.2-2 Java kit on OpenVMS:a= http://h18012.www1.hp.com/java/download/ovms/1.4.2/index.htmle   Regardsv  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant- HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660- Fax: 613-591-4477- Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom4. (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:27:37 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: longest uptime 4 Message-ID: <nFKoc.4048$Xy3.17904@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>  G > Well, I have a cluster that was established well over a year ago, butjJ > the longest uptime for any member is currently just over 30 days, due to$ > monthly reboots, patches and such. >  > --   > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systemsd > http://www.djesys.com/     What is a monthly reboot? # This is a VMS forum, not windows...f ;-)h   -- i Syltrems   OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)% ---zulu is not in my email address---    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:05:44 +0000 (UTC)c7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)c Subject: Re: longest uptimen( Message-ID: <c802s8$4a3$1@pcls4.std.com>  , "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:  H >> Well, I have a cluster that was established well over a year ago, butK >> the longest uptime for any member is currently just over 30 days, due to.% >> monthly reboots, patches and such.b   >What is a monthly reboot?$ >This is a VMS forum, not windows... >;-)  - How do you keep Windows up for a whole month?l -- o -Mikea   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:54:37 -0400-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ; Subject: Oracle touts Linux Integity (sic.) and reliabilityu, Message-ID: <tdKdnatK47SM7T7dRVn-ug@igs.net>   Ad in my local newspaper today:n    " Oracle Sets New Linux Speed Record
 1,000,000+ Transactions Per Minute(   The Oracle Grid on Linux It's fast...it's cheap...  and it never breaksf   cites www.tpc.orgt December 8, 2003- 16 x 4-cpu HP Integrity rx5670 server cluster  cpus were Itanic II 1.5GHz 1,184,893.38 tmpCo $5.52 / tpmC  / Now what were the Rdb on VMS comparables again?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:09:40 +0200d* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>5 Subject: Re: OT You'll never guess what HP advertised * Message-ID: <2gghp6F2bnoaU1@uni-berlin.de>   Bob Koehler wrote:Y > In article <2gf6omF27vimU1@uni-berlin.de>, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:i > H >>Mind you, the US site for the VW Phaeton claims that it is pronounced C >>FayTon, whereas I automatically think something akin to "Feeton".p >> > E >    The many Phaetons produced by other auto makers have always been- >    fae-eh-tun, to me.  >   . OK. It just didn't feel right when I saw it...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:13:01 +02006* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>5 Subject: Re: OT You'll never guess what HP advertisede* Message-ID: <2gghvdF2bnoaU2@uni-berlin.de>   Dr. Dweeb wrote: > Paul Sture wrote:r >  >>Dr. Dweeb wrote: >> >>>Paul Sture wrote: >>>  >>>a >>>>Dr. Dweeb wrote: >>>> >>>>G >>>>>>>Just what is a MayBach ?? - I will need to resaerch this one :-)  >>>>>>C >>>>>>It is Daimler-Chryslers car in the Bentley/R&R class of cars.. >>>>>> >>>>>  >>>>> G >>>>>Out of my league I guess.  Are they actively sold in Europe, or isN> >>>>>it a US only thing like a Cadillac from the Chrysler arm? >>>>>D >>>>>R >>>>/ >>>>The best description I've seen of it, is at  >>>>- >>>>http://auto.howstuffworks.com/maybach.htmc >>>>E >>>>Lots of links to follow from which appears it is not just sold inI >>>>the US.3 >>>  >>> D >>>Good link, thanks.  I thought that the name sounded familiar, andD >>>the site refreshes that blurry memory from my earlier interest in >>>old cars. Thanks Paul.S >>> G >>>By the way, they cite "my-bok" as the pronunciation.  Since the word D >>>is German, I would have expected the "bach" part to be pronouncedD >>>like Bach (of J.S. fame).  You maybe have better insight into the >>>German language than I. >>>0 >>A >>More like My-Bach (guttural ch ending, depending on area) in my 
 >>opinion. >>G >>Mind you, the US site for the VW Phaeton claims that it is pronouncedEC >>FayTon, whereas I automatically think something akin to "Feeton".B >  > L > Well, we have the diphthong  (as does archaic english, as in encyclopdiaL > or onomatopoa) so I want to read something that cannot be expressed in theI > modern english alphabet! :-) But I confess, it is closer to FeyTon than I > FeetOn.  Which reminds me that I must collect my new futon tomorrow :-)  >    I stand corrected.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:18:12 -0400M From: norm.raphael@metso.com0 Subject: Re: Parity errors when HSG80 restarted?Q Message-ID: <OFD686A1EB.8E68E4C1-ON85256E93.004DBDBA-85256E93.004EA1BB@metso.com>R  C "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote on  05/11/2004 10:53:50 PM:E   [snip] > A > *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING ***  > I > There is a problem with the FC-SCSI patch V5 for V7.3-1. Do not install F > this patch, and if you have installed it, back it out IMMEDIATELY!!! > H > Do not attempt to apply the replacement patch (V6) as it has also been > recalled.  > A > *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING ***M >T  H I guess I was away when this happened.  Can you explain the problem withH the FC_SCSI V5 patch or point me to the documentation about the problem, please.B  I (I am still at V4 of this ECO, but I have some other Level 1 ECO's I wantBA to schedule, and I certainly do not want FC problems afterwards.)   J > Also, contact your support rep. about an update to the HSG firmware, but$ > be ready for some unexpected news. >  > -- > David J. DachteraI > dba DJE SystemsN > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 13 May 2004 07:52:11 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)C Subject: Poor VMS file create performance compared to Linux/FreeBSD 3 Message-ID: <ACNLDAui2WbG@eisner.encompasserve.org>E  H I am seeing very poor VMS I/O performance compared to Linux/FreeBSD whenH trying to perform the same task - unpacking a GCC tar archive - on these/ operating systems. A table of results is below.l  L I've gone into a lot of detail about my test environments, so that hopefullyK if I've missed something it will be noticed. I am also interested in seeingI8 the results on other platforms if anyone is so inclined.  L The tar archive in question is GCC 3.4.0 which contains 22735 files/dirs andM is 191,467,520 bytes long uncompressed; as VMSTAR does not support compressedsP archives I uncompressed all archives first[1]. The times below are for the untarL operation only. The archive is available from the usual GCC mirrors. I used:  K ftp://ftp.mirror.ac.uk/sites/sources.redhat.com/pub/gcc/releases/gcc-3.4.0/ G The archive is: gcc-3.4.0.tar.bz2 (25.9MB) or gcc-3.4.0.tar.gz (34.3MB)e  C I turned off Linux deferred writes on the filesystem in question byrE remounting the filesystem with "-o sync" on the mount command; I have = included the Linux deferred write performance for comparison.I  M In all cases, the input tar file was on the same disk as the extracted files.S  	 Machines:7F                                                           Avg      AvgG Machine/OS	Filesystem  Disk/Interface        RPM   Seek(ms) Latency(ms) ! AlphaStation 200 4/166, VMS 7.3-1 F                 ODS-5       IBM DORS-32160, SCSI  5400   8.5      5.56' Testdrive Alpha DS20, 500MHz, VMS 7.3-2 F                 ODS-5       RZ2DD-LS, SCSI        10000  5.4      2.99  Pentium 233Mhz, Redhat Linux 6.2F                 ext2        ST320410A, IDE        5400   8.9      5.55 Pentium 233Mhz, FreeBSD 4.5 E                 FreeBSD     ST34321A, IDE         5400   11.5     5.6  		native  F I choose the PC above so that the CPU performance would be as close as possible to my AlphaStation.  I In all cases, the command line was:	[tar_program] -vxf [archive_name].tar    Results:   Machine		OS		Unpack time	NotesC ===================================================================0A AS 200 4/166	VMS 7.3-1	1 hour 46 mins	Extract didn't complete [2] 8 Pentium 233	Redhat 6.2	2 mins 10 secs	Deferred writes ON9 Pentium 233	Redhat 6.2	4 mins 22 secs	Deferred writes OFFS+ Pentium 233	FreeBSD 4.5	15 mins 55 secs	[3] A Testdrive	VMS 7.3-2	55 mins 48 secs	Extract didn't complete [2,4]   L For VMS, I used VMSTAR V3.4-1, obtained from Hunter's site and linked on theF target machine. All VMS measurements were done using this version. [5]  L Does anyone have any ideas on how I can increase VMS file create performance4 to bring it up to Linux/FreeBSD performance levels ?   Simon.  N [1] Interestingly, the uncompress operation completed in roughly the same timeI (allowing for hardware differences) on VMS as it did on Linux. This wouldDI seem to suggest that raw I/O write performance on VMS is ok, and it's theeD actual creating of files that appears to be the performance problem.  L [2] The untar failed towards the end, because of a full path that was longerM than 100 bytes. VMSTAR does not support LongLink tar blocks, which means thatdJ VMSTAR will not fully unpack any tar archive with a full path of more thanN 100 bytes. (I've already notified Hunter; I encountered the same problem doingF some early testing with a GCC preview kit.) The last file successfully extracted was:  P Jan  4 23:18:59 2004     2316 [C3.pvg.libstdc^+^+-v3.testsuite.27_io.basic_istre$ am.extractors_arithmetic.char]13.cc;%                               [C3.^.]   tar: unexpected EOF on tar file.  O This is sufficiently close to the end of the archive that VMSTAR shouldn't have = taken more than a few minutes to finish extracting the files.   K [3] The FreeBSD filesystem metadata is written using sync I/O; file data is M written using async I/O. Even allowing for the slower disk that FreeBSD is on F (you can't place FreeBSD on an extended partition), the native FreeBSDL filesystem appears to be slower than ext2 at writing large numbers of files.% Any FreeBSD experts care to comment ?C  J [4] I made sure that VMSTAR was the only process doing any significant I/O& by using MONITOR at regular intervals.  I [5] The VMSTAR binaries supplied as part of the GNV kits were slower than , the VMSTAR that I linked. I do not know why.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------    Date: 13 May 2004 11:58:12 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)G Subject: Re: Poor VMS file create performance compared to Linux/FreeBSD03 Message-ID: <P3VGay4IXhcD@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  W In article <urMoc.1392$q53.296@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:r > L >   Search for "mybenchmark"; a set of tools made available by David Mathog.J >   Around the discussions of the tools, you'll also find various previous' >   discussions of the I/O performance.  >   + Thanks for the pointer; I will take a look.r   > @ >   Y'all can get a hobbyist license for the HP C compiler, too. >   G Perfectly true, and I have one installed. Unfortunately, my interest is  because of Ada...e   Simon.   -- sB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:25:14 GMTe# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)oG Subject: Re: Poor VMS file create performance compared to Linux/FreeBSDo1 Message-ID: <urMoc.1392$q53.296@news.cpqcorp.net>   x In article <ACNLDAui2WbG@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:I :I am seeing very poor VMS I/O performance compared to Linux/FreeBSD whenaI :trying to perform the same task - unpacking a GCC tar archive - on theseo0 :operating systems. A table of results is below.  J   Search for "mybenchmark"; a set of tools made available by David Mathog.H   Around the discussions of the tools, you'll also find various previous%   discussions of the I/O performance.s  M :Does anyone have any ideas on how I can increase VMS file create performance 5 :to bring it up to Linux/FreeBSD performance levels ?t  J   Given differences in the file systems of UNIX and OpenVMS, there are andE   will be differences in performance.  That written, the OpenVMS file-I   system, XFC caching, and file system I/O performance are all areas thattL   are all under investigation within OpenVMS Engineering; there is typicallyE   on-going profiling and performance-related work within engineering.n  E   We have made various improvements in recent releases, and have been E   actively working to increase the aggregate I/O performance -- this  C   includes changes made in V7.3-2, as well as work targeting future-   OpenVMS releases.-   	--e  >   Y'all can get a hobbyist license for the HP C compiler, too.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqrN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.como   ------------------------------    Date: 13 May 2004 07:51:07 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)2 Subject: Re: RZ2DD-LS performance specifications ?3 Message-ID: <k2W$ecBUu36s@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  Y In article <2gfa58F28o87U1@uni-berlin.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl> writes:d > 5 > Apparently the DEC RZ2DD-LS is a Seagate ST39102LC.lE > Ref.: http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/specs/scsi/st39102lc.htmlg >   < Thank you. I didn't realise that it was a re-badged Seagate.   Simon.   -- .B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:01:43 GMT A From: "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk>cA Subject: Re: SCSI controllers for 4000 series microvax, for TZK62 = Message-ID: <bdLoc.2616$H23.21685278@news-text.cableinet.net>   K Nemonix made the KZCCA series of devices for the StorageWorks group in DEC.s  C Nemonix still make such devices, now in both HVD (for HSZ and otheri4 StorageWorks type applications) and LVD/SE variants.  E The boards come as SCSI only, Fast Ethernet only or Combo boards. ForeE smaller VAXes they generally plug into the CDAL bus on the CPU board.sH Regrettably they don't do one for the VAX 4000-200 or 4000-300. There is also an XMI bus version.   -- -   Hope this helps, Colin. ) colin DOT butcher AT xdelta DOT co DOT uksL Systems Archaeologist - Investigation & troubleshooting of older systems and	 networks.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:35:17 +0200m* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>A Subject: Terry Shannon's "HP: Two Years Post-Merger Presentation" * Message-ID: <2gh8c7F2ppi0U1@uni-berlin.de>  H As reported by The Inquirer at http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=158796 Terry Shannon's has a presentation up in PDF format at  A http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=04/05/12/7726404t  H Terry claims "It took me 150 hours out of a 168-hour week to render the H slideware reasonably consistent with HP standards; you can download the F results in just a few minutes.", but I must assume that his server is G either getting hammered or is somewhat sick, as it felt like 150 hours   to download it.n  F The PDF pages containing graphics took ages to render too, so to save > others the frustration I've knocked up some quick web pages at  . http://www.sture.homeip.net/itanium/index.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:43:46 +0300 + From: Jaan Kronberg <jaan.kronberg@mail.ee>i- Subject: Timestamp format stored in RMS file? / Message-ID: <opr7x0i8q6xckwek@diablo.uninet.ee>n  	 Hi there,    8 bytes: 0000 36BD 04FB A200-  K Could anybody "translate" it to "readable" date without using any built-in   OpenVMS function?-G Or, alternatively, using Perl standard functions (let's assume I don't m9 have any modules and I don't know C - and I really don't)g  % Just tell me _how_, I'm kinda stuck..c  I I've read bunch of documents regarding Julian calendar, tried to compare /K some Julian calendar information with what I've got in file - nothing :) I /7 think I'm going crazy with that (too hard case for me).a  1 If question sounds very stupid - just ignore it..,   thx, jkJ p.s. Actually those bytes _should_ represent April 1st, 2004 00:00:00[.00  <-- not sure about that]   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:45:42 +0100i* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>1 Subject: Re: Timestamp format stored in RMS file? , Message-ID: <c80578$1a3s@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  b "Jaan Kronberg" <jaan.kronberg@mail.ee> wrote in message news:opr7x0i8q6xckwek@diablo.uninet.ee...  
 > 8 bytes: > 0000 36BD 04FB A200i >"L > Could anybody "translate" it to "readable" date without using any built-in > OpenVMS function?,  D Yes. Time in 100 nanosecond intervals since November 17th 1858, as a 64-bit word.   Some Python:    >>> base = '1-jan-1970 00:00:00' >>> vms.starlet.bintim(base)[1]l 35067168003000000L> >>> seconds = ( 0xA2FB04BDBDCDA0L - 35067168002100000L ) / 1E7& >>> time.asctime(time.gmtime(seconds)) 'Thu Apr  1 00:00:00 2004'  
 Close enough:m, >>> vms.starlet.asctim(0xA2FB04BDBDCDA0L)[1] ' 1-APR-2004 00:00:00.89'e   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:14:07 +0000 (UTC).. From: Dale Dellutri <ddelQQQlutr@panQQQix.com>1 Subject: Re: Timestamp format stored in RMS file?i, Message-ID: <c806sf$gha$1@reader2.panix.com>  P On Thu, 13 May 2004 17:43:46 +0300, Jaan Kronberg <jaan.kronberg@mail.ee> wrote: > Hi there,o  
 > 8 bytes: > 0000 36BD 04FB A200p  M > Could anybody "translate" it to "readable" date without using any built-in o > OpenVMS function? I > Or, alternatively, using Perl standard functions (let's assume I don't a; > have any modules and I don't know C - and I really don't)   ' > Just tell me _how_, I'm kinda stuck..f  K > I've read bunch of documents regarding Julian calendar, tried to compare  M > some Julian calendar information with what I've got in file - nothing :) I c9 > think I'm going crazy with that (too hard case for me).t  3 > If question sounds very stupid - just ignore it..e   > thx, > jkL > p.s. Actually those bytes _should_ represent April 1st, 2004 00:00:00[.00  > <-- not sure about that]  B What you've got is a 64 bit time in 100 nanosecond intervals sinceC 1858-11-17 00:00, the base of the VMS time system (also the base oft5 the modified Julian day number, see the calendar FAQ:i-   http://www.tondering.dk/claus/calendar.htmlm )"  @ First reconstruct the 64 bit hex value (reverse the byte order):   Hex value? 00A2FB04BD360000e Convert to base ten:   (base 10): 45874944000000000C So it's 4,587,494,400,000,000,000 nanoseconds since the base time =c.   4,587,494,400 seconds / 86,400 seconds/day =   53,096 days (no remainder)  B From here, getting to the correct date requires a somewhat complex@ procedure which takes into account the leap days.  So the entire8 process requires 64 bit arithmetic and a date procedure.  C However, if you just use SYS$ASCTIM with the 64 bit value given, itp says:b   1-APR-2004 00:00:00.00 which is a lot more direct.c   -- e7 Dale Dellutri <ddelQQQlutr@panQQQix.com> (lose the Q's)s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:23:13 -0400n( From: "Hein" <hein.nomail@hp.nomail.com>1 Subject: Re: Timestamp format stored in RMS file?r* Message-ID: <40a3afe4@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  I I know you said no VMS build-ins (btw... why? going to use that data on a  PC?)F Just to understand the problem I would encourage you to use VMS tools, notably the debugger. 1 Take an image, any image, run it with debugger...  $RUN/DEB TMP DBG> set radix hex( DBG> dep/date 10000="1-apr-2004 0:0:0.0" DBG> ex/date .' TMP\main:        1-APR-2004 00:00:00.00s DBG> ex/quad .  TMP\main:       00A2FB04BD360000  ( see... there are your bytes... reversed.  + Now for grins, ooops: better understanding:/ DBG> ex/qua/dec  .! TMP\main:       45874944000000000a( DBG> dep/date 10000="1-apr-2004 0:0:1.0" DBG> ex/qua/dec  .! TMP\main:       45874944010000000   L See those 10,000,000 clunks of 100 nano-seconds being added to add a second?   Same second added in Hex:e DBG> ex/quad .  TMP\main:       00A2FB04BDCE9680  B If you look around (Wizard!, OpenVMS Forum) you will also fidn DCL( constructs to pretty print binary dates.    8 "Jaan Kronberg" <jaan.kronberg@mail.ee> wrote in message) news:opr7x0i8q6xckwek@diablo.uninet.ee...c > Hi there,- >r
 > 8 bytes: > 0000 36BD 04FB A200  >0L > Could anybody "translate" it to "readable" date without using any built-in > OpenVMS function?0H > Or, alternatively, using Perl standard functions (let's assume I don't; > have any modules and I don't know C - and I really don't)c >k' > Just tell me _how_, I'm kinda stuck..n > J > I've read bunch of documents regarding Julian calendar, tried to compareL > some Julian calendar information with what I've got in file - nothing :) I9 > think I'm going crazy with that (too hard case for me).. > 3 > If question sounds very stupid - just ignore it..i >l > thx, > jkK > p.s. Actually those bytes _should_ represent April 1st, 2004 00:00:00[.00i > <-- not sure about that]   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:53:47 -0500 % From: Neil Cherry <njc@wolfgang.uucp> " Subject: VMS, tftp & ftp questions. Message-ID: <slrnca6va1.mm4.njc@wolfgang.uucp>  C I need to use my Alpha (VMS 7.3) as a tftp server for my LAN. Hen IeD ftp the files to the Alpha were should I put them so tftp can accessB them. Also how do I 'touch' a file (create an empty file) so I can? save my equipment binaries and config files to the tftp server?n  1 Any pointers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks    -- ,D Linux Home Automation         Neil Cherry        ncherry@comcast.net; http://home.comcast.net/~ncherry/               (Text only) = http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/                 (SourceForge) 8 http://hcs.sourceforge.net/                     (HCS II)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:16:16 GMTV# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)v& Subject: Re: VMS, tftp & ftp questions1 Message-ID: <4jMoc.1390$q53.420@news.cpqcorp.net>   V In article <slrnca6va1.mm4.njc@wolfgang.uucp>, Neil Cherry <njc@wolfgang.uucp> writes:D :I need to use my Alpha (VMS 7.3) as a tftp server for my LAN. Hen IE :ftp the files to the Alpha were should I put them so tftp can accessaC :them. Also how do I 'touch' a file (create an empty file) so I canc@ :save my equipment binaries and config files to the tftp server?  E   For configuring an FTP or TFTP server, please install and configure3C   the TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS package, or one of the available :   third-party TCP/IP Stacks.  9   For "touch", please search the OpenVMS FAQ for "touch".i  >   To create an empty file, you can use COPY NLA0: filename, or'   a text editor, or the CREATE command.   F   Available documentation resources include the OpenVMS user's manual,E   the OpenVMS system manager's manual, the TCP/IP services management E   documentation (FTP and TFTP have chapters in this manual), and the     OpenVMS FAQ.    G   For programming, there exists the OpenVMS Programming Concepts manualoI   and various language-specific manuals -- since you are probably working-I   in C or C++, there is a section on C and C++ programming in the OpenVMS F   FAQ, there are C programming manuals, and (somewhat confusingly) theA   most recent C library documentation now ships with the OpenVMS eG   documentation set (as the run-time library itself ships with OpenVMS,HG   and not with the compiler) and not with the C language documentation.e  I   You'll want to upgrade to OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 and (whether you upgrade G   OpenVMS or not) you'll want to install the mandatory ECO kits for theS   OpenVMS release in use.l  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comm   ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2004 23:04:09 -0700. From: dieter.rossbach@gmx.de (dieter rossbach)2 Subject: Re: XFC experiences on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3= Message-ID: <e1d40caf.0405122204.7700970d@posting.google.com>r  K We use XFC with 7.3, 7.3-1 and 7.3-2, latest patch levels, without problems0   Regardsi   Dieter   ------------------------------   Date: 13 May 2004 06:05:29 GMT2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-yw6UEf4Vbdx4@dave2_os2.home.ours>   " On Wed, 12 May 2004 13:14:25 UTC, < koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  \ > In article <c7scnd$30tn$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> writes: > > K > > True.  But most bugs can be fixed without understanding more than a few  > > hundred lines of code. >  >    ROTFLOL > ; >    You've been doing maintenance programing for how long?f  2 Actually I tend agree with him. He did say 'most'.  C Its a function of the bug. If it's a crash, you've a good place to eE start the trace from, divide by zero, invalid pointer etc.. The more  F obscure the behaviour, the wider the knowledge of the code/system you F need. I'm sure we've all helped colleagues to trace bugs without even ? seeing a line of their code. We draw on our experience and our 0 abilities in logic/deduction.   4 It all depends, as my economics teacher used to say.   -- l Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   Date: 13 May 2004 06:05:18 GMT2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-WGgd8gdyZU10@dave2_os2.home.ours>t  F On Thu, 13 May 2004 03:22:18 UTC, "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote: > 9 > No, I am careful not to put to much faith into roadmapsh  N > David wrote that clustering in VMS is much better than clustering in currentF > HP-UX.  But that does not seem to be true 1-2 years from now.  So inN > principle HP could try actively selling VMS in the 1-2 years time span untilI > HP-UX gets better clustering.  I just do not think that would be a good  > idea.d  C Do you not see the contradiction in these two statements? Unless I cF misread it and the 'not good idea' is believing the roadmap. I take it7 to be a comment on how/whether HP should market(?) VMS.e   -- a Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:45:45 +0200-  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised, Message-ID: <c7vg49$rac$1@news.cybercity.dk>   Karsten Nyblad wrote:34 > "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in message >nL news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3145A9@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net...@ >>> True.  But most bugs can be fixed without understanding more >>> than a few >>> hundred lines of code. >3F >> Please, this is getting silly - you do not fix OS kernel, security,B >> cluster and driver problems by only understanding a few hundredB >> lines of code. Especially ones which deal with loading, clusterD >> interaction, race problems caused by faster servers, intermittent2 >> crashes (hw?/os?/isv? software issues?) etc ... >rB > OK, you get a longer answer.  I would avoid using an unsupportedD > operating system when ever I can.  Unfortunately there is always a@ > risk ending up running an important application on unsupported > hardware and software. > H > Even if you buy operating systems large market share from big softwareD > vendors, there is a chance that the operating system becomes EOLedG > some time in the future.  Just look at VMS.  It was a very successful D > operating system for many years.  HP might stop supporting it someB > times in the future.  Let us assume that happens.  There will beG > organizations that will want to use VMS after HP has stopped support.sD > What do you think these organization would like if given these two? > options:  1)  HP opens the sources of VMS and makes it freelyr/ > available.  2)  HP shreds the sources of VMS.n >hD > You are right that many of the problems you list, are difficult to= > solve, but do you really think, e.g., security problems arenG > necessarily difficult to solve once the problems have been disclosed? D > E.g., do you think you need to understand an entire application toC > fix a buffer over round?  In that case I know one consultant I am  > never going to hire. >    I can name one as well.-  E > Try thinking about the bugs fixes you have made during your career.LE > Do you agree with me in that the main part of those have been fixedd > just a few lines?r >   @ Some, Yes.  Most, no. And in any case, the number of lines fixedI (added/changed/deleted) is not some general function of the complexity ofm the problem.  K I recall spending 5 days understanding/fixing an 8000 line program to solvetG a trivial programming error that required less than 10 lines of code to L correct.  Most of the time was spent constructing a logically exhausive testC data set to test all possible inputs in order to isolate under whatoL circumstances the code produced incorrect results.  In other words, figuringK out where in the code to even look.  Which category is this in ?  This is a ' pretty normal state of affairs I think.i  ? Sometimes you have to throw it all away because it is so brokeneL structurally, that it cannot be patched.  Like the classic 80% solution, theH 7-10 split, there is no way to reach the goal (10 pins) from the current; position. This is a pretty normal state of affairs I think.s  $ Like someone else wrote, it depends.  L However, statistically speaking, the number of people qualified to modify OSI code at client sites is really small and for a host of reasons, I suspectO, few sites actually want that responsibility.  K Anyhow, this discussion is tangential to the original point.  The right andtK technical possibility to modify OS code is, in general, a specious argument  in support of an OpenSource OS.e    5 Finally, as an observation on this particular matter,c  I I have been hearing hotshoe CS grads still wet behind the ears spout thisrJ crap for more than 20 years.  Same, Same.  Only time and a few spectacular/ budget overuns will teaches them any different.s  K You believe your position to be true, and as a matter of simple psychology,-G have invested part of your ego in taking what is technically known as a L *position*.  Nothing anyone says will cause you to alter this position, onlyC *events* which falsify it, and thus create the cognitive dissonanceSJ necessary for a realignment of your mind - and perhaps not even then - areH likely to have affect.  Its just the way most people are wired together.D Some minds are sufficiently well trained to avoid the burned fingers0 requirement, but they are sadly in the minority.    
 Dr. Dweeb.   >  Karsten Nyblad ! > ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot comI   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:50:15 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised) Message-ID: <c7vndn$ob6$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>7  Y In article <c7uple$34h$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> writes:D >F, >"Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com> wrote in message( >news:c7ukge$302j$1@news.cybercity.dk...@ >> If you are willing to pay for a promised future, then you are >permanantaly,6 >> irrevocabley placed in J.P.Barnums famous category.L >> If you you ar unaware of what this is, the popular vernacular is "idiot",E >> though in your obvious case I might concede "sprog" or "neophyte".- >>D >> I listened to a similar clown make this argument 10 years befor a >particulartL >> feature was even partially available in Unix, as a an argument for MOVINGL >> AWAY from VMS to Unix.  Sadly, the moron collected his exhorbitant salaryI >> and the corporation suffered severely for their folly for quite a longn >timer >> afterwards. >>I >> Og det var et stort dansk firma, og "guruen" var en idiot dansker.  SA >dansk+ >> at det gr ondt.  Kort sagt, en "moron".s >0K >Gee, what a language.  I am feeling like back in the good old days of Carl  >Lydick. >mJ >No, I am careful not to put to much faith into roadmaps.  Once I bought aJ >type wheel printer, and the Danish letter  on one of the type wheels wasL >not printed on the line.  It was a type wheel we did not need, so I did notH >care that much.  I was told that the problem would be fixed, but when I+ >asked a year later, I got the same answer.y >mJ >Second time:  Digital told me that there would most likely be support forL >SMTP in UCX in version 1.3.  When version 13a showed it was not there.  Not8 >a big problem since MX was free and you could buy PMDF. >eL >But I learned not to trust roadmaps.  I would not buy a software product onJ >promises, I cannot get in writing.  An oral promise tends to be worth theL >paper it is written on.  When I can, I avoid products were all I can get is >written promises. >sE >> > You do not revive a product like an operating system because youI, >> > intend to sell it a little over a year. >> > >>$ >> I do not understand this comment. >bM >David wrote that clustering in VMS is much better than clustering in currenthE >HP-UX.  But that does not seem to be true 1-2 years from now.  So in M >principle HP could try actively selling VMS in the 1-2 years time span until-H >HP-UX gets better clustering.  I just do not think that would be a good >idea. ><M No what I wrote was that clustering in VMS is much better than that in Tru64. L Hence you are positing a future in which HP-UX both gets everything in Tru64E (which in itself will not be a simple job) and then improves on that.r4 Nothing is impossible but I wouldn't hold my breath.  O You might as well posit that HP-UX will add in Fault tolerance Tandem style andu' hence HP should also not advertise NSK.sK (after all one of the VAX systems produced in the past was a fault tolerant  system).  I There are many other reasons apart from clustering or fault tolerance why0M certain VMS or NSK customers would probably not be happy at that prospect not  least of which is security.v    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University       >Karsten Nyblad6  >ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot com >  >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:48:17 -0400t' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>n2 Subject: RE: You'll never guess what HP advertisedR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB314663@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Karsten Nyblad [mailto:nospam@nospam.com]=20 > Sent: May 13, 2004 12:27 AM- > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com:4 > Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised >=20 >=204 > "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in message@ > news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3145A9@tayexc19.americas. > cpqcorp.net...A > >> True.  But most bugs can be fixed without understanding morew > >> than a few  > >> hundred lines of code.a >=20F > >Please, this is getting silly - you do not fix OS kernel, security,= > >cluster and driver problems by only understanding a few=20  > hundred lines of< > >code. Especially ones which deal with loading, cluster=20 > interaction, racehH > >problems caused by faster servers, intermittent crashes (hw?/os?/isv? > >software issues?) etc ... >=209 > OK, you get a longer answer.  I would avoid using an=20  > unsupported operatingoB > system when ever I can.  Unfortunately there is always a risk=20 > ending upGH > running an important application on unsupported hardware and software. >=20H > Even if you buy operating systems large market share from big softwareA > vendors, there is a chance that the operating system becomes=20i > EOLed some time @ > in the future.  Just look at VMS.  It was a very successful=20 > operating system? > for many years.  HP might stop supporting it some times in=20  > the future.  Let> > us assume that happens.  There will be organizations that=20 > will want to use? > VMS after HP has stopped support.  What do you think these=20  > organization= > would like if given these two options:  1)  HP opens the=20o > sources of VMS and? > makes it freely available.  2)  HP shreds the sources of VMS.d >=20  H Most Customers I deal with would move to another OS platform before theyD would decide to do OS kernel/clustering/driver support on their own.F Especially since even if Sun/HP/IBM did decide to drop one of their OSH platforms, they would typically give something like at least a 5-10 year window.1  E And that applies to any OS platform from one of the major players.=20r  B The open source movement has some good idea's, but the "we want toH maintain our own code in case the vendor goes out of business.." is sortG of ok(?) for applications, but is political mumbo jumbo when discussing  OS support.=20  C The number of open source folks in the wild (i.e. not working for ahC commercial vendor) that have the expertise to maintain kernel code, 5 cluster and drivers is extremely, extremely small.=20u  @ > Try thinking about the bugs fixes you have made during your=20 > career.  Do yousA > agree with me in that the main part of those have been fixed=20  > just a few > lines? >=20 >  Karsten Nyblady! > ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot comi >=20  G I am sure VMS Engineering would state some percentage (likely small) ofhH bugs are easily fixed when they are pointed out. However, I am sure thatE they would also state the bugs that are the big time killers and showrF stoppers are the ones that are typically very complex and that require: an understanding of the entire system and/or architecture.  ' And that applies to any OS platform.=20    RegardsN  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477. Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom-. (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------    Date: 13 May 2004 07:02:50 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)u2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised3 Message-ID: <tRkaW$1d3J+M@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  p In article <283e357c10ee63b4ffa97fb790d13ebb@news.teranews.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote: > O > My 370 assembler card says the opposite. It has 360 instruction set with some G > added instructions/opcode present only on 370s. Just like Intel addedt; > instructions on Pentiums (such as stuff for games/video).i  H    Although the 370 instruction set is a superset of the 360 instructionD    set, the 370 had and used a compatability mode when executing 360
    images.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:46:02 +0200b* From: "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised- Message-ID: <c8058o$1k13$1@news.cybercity.dk>d  2 "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB314663@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net...I >Most Customers I deal with would move to another OS platform before theyeE >would decide to do OS kernel/clustering/driver support on their own.rG >Especially since even if Sun/HP/IBM did decide to drop one of their OSeI >platforms, they would typically give something like at least a 5-10 year  >window.  C >And that applies to any OS platform from one of the major players.D  K Very true.  However, there are always some companies with relatively stable.L applications that chose not to move on.  They are betting on not runing intoK problems because they rarely change anything.  That is what we have seen inS	 the past.   D >The number of open source folks in the wild (i.e. not working for aD >commercial vendor) that have the expertise to maintain kernel code,3 >cluster and drivers is extremely, extremely small.A  
 Kernel : Yes.0
 Cluster : Yes D Drivers : I think many of the drivers are developed by hobby people.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 18:15:44 +0200i* From: "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised- Message-ID: <c806vr$1m1a$1@news.cybercity.dk>=  + <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in messageu# news:c7vndn$ob6$1@news.mdx.ac.uk...  >eH > No what I wrote was that clustering in VMS is much better than that in Tru64.H > Hence you are positing a future in which HP-UX both gets everything in Tru64eG > (which in itself will not be a simple job) and then improves on that.M6 > Nothing is impossible but I wouldn't hold my breath. >nG > You might as well posit that HP-UX will add in Fault tolerance Tandems	 style and ) > hence HP should also not advertise NSK.rD > (after all one of the VAX systems produced in the past was a fault tolerant
 > system). >.K > There are many other reasons apart from clustering or fault tolerance why K > certain VMS or NSK customers would probably not be happy at that prospectl note > least of which is security.e   Sorry, my fault.  L So you would like to tell the customers that the security of HP-UX is not asK good as that in VMS.  The customers will hear that the security in HP-UX isaL not good enough.  Rule number A1 while selling is never ever tell a customerK that there is something that your product is not good at something, even if L it is obvious.  Been there.  Tried it.  The customer looked funny, and I got< a lecture from the sales person I was supporting afterwards.  I That is also one of the reasons why it will be difficult to actively sell., VMS clustering currently with selling HP-UX.  - I think it is time we agree that we disagree.    Karsten Nyblad ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot comn   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.265 ************************