1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 20 May 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 279       Contents:$ Re: "Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS"$ Re: "Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS"$ Re: "Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS"$ Re: "Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS"@ Re: %MOUNT-F-MAPHDRBAD, storage map header is bad; volume locked> Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info?????> Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info?????> Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info?????> Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info?????> Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info?????> Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info????? RE: Booting over Fibre Channel Dave Cutler and VMS  Re: Dave Cutler and VMS ) Re: Eastern Washington University project ) Re: Eastern Washington University project ) Re: Eastern Washington University project - Re: Hobbyist Licensing? (was: Re: netbooting)   Re: LAT & Hobbiest VMS questions  Re: LAT & Hobbyist VMS questions Re: longest uptime Re: longest uptime Minimum GBLPAGES.. Re: Minimum GBLPAGES.. Re: Minimum GBLPAGES.. Re: Minimum GBLPAGES..> Re: OpenVMS v7.3-1 detach process creation - strange behaviour Re: Request for new SMTP Re: Request for new SMTP! Re: SUN fails to advertise VMS... ! Re: SUN fails to advertise VMS... & Re: VMS731_FIBRE_SCSI-V0600.DCX_AXPEXE& Re: VMS731_FIBRE_SCSI-V0600.DCX_AXPEXE Re: XDMP and TCPIP 5.4) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2004 07:37:40 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)- Subject: Re: "Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS" = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0405200637.107f9d05@posting.google.com>   h "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> wrote in message news:<40ABE32D.12784.804D7A9@localhost>...G > Is VMS like Unix?  I like the butter commercial: "We'll never say we   > taste like margarine." > + > ------- Forwarded message follows -------  > 4 > EVANGELIST Puts Linux v/s Microsoft Debate To Rest > CXOtoday.com - IndiaD > .. has core similarities to Unix, and the same Dave Cutler that isC > responsible for developing and designing Windows NT, has designed $ > Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS ...H > <http://www.cxotoday.com/cxo/jsp/index.jsp?section=News&subsection=Peo7 > ple&subsection_code=6&file=template1.jsp&storyid=966>  > E > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  > --Stan Quayle  > Quayle Consulting Inc. >  > ----------/ > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 5 > 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 2 > stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com    2 I find this quote fascinating. Here is more of it:   " = Anand is a veteran as far as toying with Operating Systems is ? concerned, and has contributed to both Linux and Windows codes. > Presenting a candid unbiased opinion, he explained, "As far asD security, stability and reliability of the two Operating Systems are@ concerned, I must say that both are equally poised. Even from anF architectural standpoint, there is no difference in the two to suggestE that Linux is more stable than Microsoft. Linux has core similarities D to Unix, and the same Dave Cutler that is responsible for developingF and designing Windows NT, has designed Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS.D Therefore there is no reason to believe that Microsoft and Linux areD dramatically different, since the same developers have been involved" with the designs of both origins." "   C So let's see: Since Dave Cutler was involved with WNT and such, and C since he designed Unix-like VMS, and since Linux is Unix-like, this 2 means that WNT and Linux are pretty much the same.  F Ah, I see. Using similar logic, A and T are pretty much the same: theyD are both letters in the English alphabet, and both were developed by3 the ancients. And they both contain straight lines!   E I guess that since Unix and VMS both have command prompts, that makes  them like each other!    Uh-huh.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:03:09 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> - Subject: Re: "Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS" , Message-ID: <G8ednSBmmrEsVTHdRVn-iQ@igs.net>  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message 7 news:b096a4ee.0405200637.107f9d05@posting.google.com... ? > "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> wrote in message * news:<40ABE32D.12784.804D7A9@localhost>...H > > Is VMS like Unix?  I like the butter commercial: "We'll never say we > > taste like margarine." > > - > > ------- Forwarded message follows -------  > > 6 > > EVANGELIST Puts Linux v/s Microsoft Debate To Rest > > CXOtoday.com - IndiaF > > .. has core similarities to Unix, and the same Dave Cutler that isE > > responsible for developing and designing Windows NT, has designed & > > Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS ...J > > <http://www.cxotoday.com/cxo/jsp/index.jsp?section=News&subsection=Peo9 > > ple&subsection_code=6&file=template1.jsp&storyid=966>  > > G > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  > > --Stan Quayle  > > Quayle Consulting Inc. > >  > > ----------1 > > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 7 > > 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 4 > > stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com >  > 4 > I find this quote fascinating. Here is more of it: >  > " ? > Anand is a veteran as far as toying with Operating Systems is A > concerned, and has contributed to both Linux and Windows codes. @ > Presenting a candid unbiased opinion, he explained, "As far asF > security, stability and reliability of the two Operating Systems areB > concerned, I must say that both are equally poised. Even from anH > architectural standpoint, there is no difference in the two to suggestG > that Linux is more stable than Microsoft. Linux has core similarities F > to Unix, and the same Dave Cutler that is responsible for developingH > and designing Windows NT, has designed Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS.F > Therefore there is no reason to believe that Microsoft and Linux areF > dramatically different, since the same developers have been involved$ > with the designs of both origins." > "  > E > So let's see: Since Dave Cutler was involved with WNT and such, and E > since he designed Unix-like VMS, and since Linux is Unix-like, this 4 > means that WNT and Linux are pretty much the same. > H > Ah, I see. Using similar logic, A and T are pretty much the same: theyF > are both letters in the English alphabet, and both were developed by5 > the ancients. And they both contain straight lines!  > G > I guess that since Unix and VMS both have command prompts, that makes  > them like each other!  > 	 > Uh-huh.     H I'm not saying that good software isn't developed in India, but when youI hear drivel like this from a person in the position Anand is in, you just  have to give your head a shake.   E I see this same convoluted logic in many (not all) projects which are H off-shored to India or elsewhere. It's not that these are insurmountableH difficulties, but time and distance mitigate against them being resolved quickly.  D Mind you, England and the US are two countries separated by a common! language, and India even more so.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:52:38 GMT 6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <KFarmer@NOSPAM.SpyderByte.com>- Subject: Re: "Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS" = Message-ID: <av4rc.51635$V_.2059050@twister.southeast.rr.com>   K Don't let them get away with statements like this!  Email them.  Call their  butt on the carpet.    Editor: editor@cxotoday.com # Writer: hineshjethwani@cxotoday.com   G If anyone wants to write a rebuttal I'll gladly post it on OpenVMS.org. I This is the kind of garbage when need to fight.  Any time you see someone J write something like this post it on the newsgroup with email addresss and) lets flood them with the facts via email!    Ken   ; -----------------------------------------------------------  Kenneth R. Farmer <><  OpenVMS.org  |  dcl.OpenVMS.org       = "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> wrote in message ( news:40ABE32D.12784.804D7A9@localhost...F > Is VMS like Unix?  I like the butter commercial: "We'll never say we > taste like margarine." > + > ------- Forwarded message follows -------  > 4 > EVANGELIST Puts Linux v/s Microsoft Debate To Rest > CXOtoday.com - IndiaD > .. has core similarities to Unix, and the same Dave Cutler that isC > responsible for developing and designing Windows NT, has designed $ > Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS ...H > <http://www.cxotoday.com/cxo/jsp/index.jsp?section=News&subsection=Peo7 > ple&subsection_code=6&file=template1.jsp&storyid=966>  > E > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  > --Stan Quayle  > Quayle Consulting Inc. >  > ----------/ > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 5 > 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 2 > stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:21:50 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> - Subject: Re: "Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS" ' Message-ID: <40ACDB1E.18EF755D@aaa.com>    Kenneth Farmer wrote:  > M > Don't let them get away with statements like this!  Email them.  Call their  > butt on the carpet.  >  > Editor: editor@cxotoday.com % > Writer: hineshjethwani@cxotoday.com   H <editor@cxotoday.com>: host mail.cxotoday.com[203.199.124.213] said: 550 5.1.1 A        <editor@cxotoday.com>... User unknown (in reply to RCPT TO  command)   :-)    Regards,	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2004 06:02:39 -0700% From: info@it-bcsb.de (Klaus-D. Bohn) I Subject: Re: %MOUNT-F-MAPHDRBAD, storage map header is bad; volume locked = Message-ID: <12fe110f.0405200502.6e644155@posting.google.com>   a Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message news:<874qqlwwej.fsf@prep.synonet.com>... ) > info@it-bcsb.de (Klaus-D. Bohn) writes:  > D > > perhaps anyone of you could help me or could give me some hints. >   J > > A wrong command "mount /shadow = ..." has destroyed my data on a disk.E > > I could stop the shadow copy by 0%. But i can't mount the disk by I > > normal way and get the error message "%MOUNT-F-MAPHDRBAD, storage map ? > > header is bad; volume locked". Mount /foreign works normal.  > > > Ah, you too have discovered the mount of instant death :|... > F > First off, get a BACKUP/PHYS of the disk so you can have a chance of > recovering if it goes wrong. > F > Next, try MOUNT/OVER=LIMIT and see how that goes. Then try ANAL/DISK > and see if it gets anywhere. > : > > What is the best way to recover the data on this disk. >  > Carfully...  > K > You have most certainly lost the boot block, home block and the beginning 7 > of the indexf.sys. Recovering from this is not easy.   >  > Is the data worth it?    Hello Paul,   ? thank you very much for your hint. Now i have found a solution.  Here is it:   )  1.) destroyed disk has a cluster size 35 -  2.) original data disk has a cluster size 69 D  3.) recovered an another same disk direkt from my backup (see point 2)B  4.) use the program diskblock (V5.8) from the OpenVMS freeware CD V6.0E  5.) save with diskblock the first 1000 blocks from the restored disk 
 (see point 3) 6  6.) write the saved 1000 blocks to the destroyed disk.  7.) now, you could mount/over=id  (great !!!)6  8.) make an analyse/disk/repair on the destroyed disk1  9.) near all data's are in the directory syslost E 10.) restructure the directories and files (i took it with Pathworks, 
 very easy)$ 11.) in my case, i don't lost data's 12.) it is running very well  F My luck, i stopped the shadow copy by 0%. So i had only to recover the first 1000 blocks.  > It was a interesting experience for me, to unterstand the disk structure better.   " Thank you for your help and hints!        Klaus-D. Bohn   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:23:37 +0000 (UTC) 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)G Subject: Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info????? 1 Message-ID: <newscache$jgf0yh$p0d1$1@news.sil.at>   l In article <c8f7v8$enj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> writes: >David Svensson wrote: >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c8dg6o$pig$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>   >>>Jan van Mastbergen wrote: >>> B >>>When OSF died a well deserved death Digital changed the name ofD >>>OSF-1 to DECUNIX quickly followed by another rebranding to Tru64. >>   >> Why was it well deserved? > 3 >Because the motives for creating OSF were entirely 1 >bogus and because is set back the development of $ >UNIX to a point where NT creapt in.  A NO. OSF tried to make an real (UNIX) operating system out of U**X H by standardizing the missing parts which were not required when U**X wasL in universities (and existed mainly in 2 flavors east-coast and west-coast).F It used the Request For Technology (instead of RFC) method to speed upH things. OSF had a lot of good intentions with and for UNIX. Sun had not.* (They had only good intentions for SunOS).  I When the (UNIX) business came in (when workstation and shortly thereafter G RISC were hip), vendors tried to fill the gap of UNIX (to a real opsys) F with proprietary extensions (time and name/directory services, printerF management, user management, look-and-feel, desktop applications, ...)L which lead to big incompatibilites in the umpteen different flavors of U**X.  G And these incompatibilites were the reason, why the crowd who were just H flexible enough to easy and fast leaving the "legacy opsys" years beforeH (to get the promised advantages of openess [source], speed and low cost)J began to move instantly to M$ (because 1. U**X was no longer open [source]K since the vendor business came in, and 2. the speed was in RISC not in U**X K and INTEL got also a lot of speed in their IA32, and 3. low cost was easier K done with stealing^Wtesting M$ crap) and not as you state the fault of OSF.   E And don't forget the dealer practices of M$. Give away the poison for F free, and after they are all addicted, then get money for every gramm.= And look what the poison did to us (and the [IT] industry)...   D OSF (and X-OPEN, which also tried to standardize U**X by defining anE X-OPEN portability guide XPG which came AFAIK until version 4) didn't G really deserve to die. The U**X vendors thought that they will get more H money _without_ a standardized UNIX and were no longer really supportingH these (X-OPEN Group) and therefor also drove the customers to Billy in a	 stampede.   G LINUX (but only on IA32 and maybe IA32-64) is yet another (and probably G the last) try to standardize U**X to get enough market power against M$ E (which is also not open, but still more open than a commercial UNIX).      --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 2004 12:58:56 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)G Subject: Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info????? * Message-ID: <2h3ocfF8ola5U2@uni-berlin.de>  1 In article <newscache$jgf0yh$p0d1$1@news.sil.at>, 9 	peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:  > I > LINUX (but only on IA32 and maybe IA32-64) is yet another (and probably I > the last) try to standardize U**X to get enough market power against M$ G > (which is also not open, but still more open than a commercial UNIX).   I And once again everyone ignores the fact that real Unix (minus the name!) E as it was developed at BSD is readily available, totally standard and H more free than Linux in the form of {Free|Open|Net}BSD.  I still can notH understand why any commercial endeavor would use Linux as opposed to oneF of the BSD's based solely on the license and totally ignoring the fact= that the BSD's are technically much better operating systems.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:27:35 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> G Subject: Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info????? 0 Message-ID: <c8if8p$rnt$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Alex Daniels wrote: s > Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<c8feu2$h4r$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  >>Alex Daniels wrote:  >> >> >  > B > In the context of the discussion of Tru64 previous names (OSF/1,E > Digital Unix, Compaq's DIGITAL UNIX) before finally becoming Tru64.  > @ > Just because some Tru64 bits are being ported into hp-ux, your; > statement 'Its now called HP-UX' does NOT become correct.  >   ; So will your point still be true when the 11i.3 or whatever 9 the HP-UX version number is that has the Tru64 bits comes  out and Tru64 is EOL'd ?   Nope so my point still stands.  > > Tru64's name has NOT changed. So its not 'now called HP-UX'. > $ > Once again get your facts correct. >   : Ahh so lets apply your rule such that it is to the Tru64's
 ancestors.  : Using your theory OSF-1 was not renamed as DECUNIX because DECUNIX was a new release.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 2004 15:08:18 GMT+ From: "Doc." <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com> G Subject: Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info????? 7 Message-ID: <Xns94EFAEBAE4540dcovmsrox@212.100.160.123>   ! Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 0 <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in) news:c8if8p$rnt$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com:     > Alex Daniels wrote: G >> Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message 0 >> news:<c8feu2$h4r$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >>   >>>Alex Daniels wrote: >>>  >>>  >> >>  C >> In the context of the discussion of Tru64 previous names (OSF/1, F >> Digital Unix, Compaq's DIGITAL UNIX) before finally becoming Tru64. >>  A >> Just because some Tru64 bits are being ported into hp-ux, your < >> statement 'Its now called HP-UX' does NOT become correct. >>   > = > So will your point still be true when the 11i.3 or whatever ; > the HP-UX version number is that has the Tru64 bits comes  > out and Tru64 is EOL'd ? >   > Nope so my point still stands.  I Yes, it will and your point doesn't stand.  You even give the reason why  A your point doesn't stand in your own post... Tru64 will be EOL'd.   ? >> Tru64's name has NOT changed. So its not 'now called HP-UX'.  >>  % >> Once again get your facts correct.  >>   > < > Ahh so lets apply your rule such that it is to the Tru64's > ancestors. > < > Using your theory OSF-1 was not renamed as DECUNIX because > DECUNIX was a new release.  G It wasn't his theory, it was your statement, barring the Tru64 becomes   HP-UX bit, that he agreed with.   H I really don't know how you manage to come up with the reasoning that a H product called Tru64 that is being discontinued is changing its name to C another product.  One that will have some functionality from Tru64   integrated into it.   = Honestly, I think you want room 12A, just along the corridor.        Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:02:29 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> G Subject: Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info????? 0 Message-ID: <c8iha6$30v$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:n > In article <c8f7v8$enj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> writes: >  >>David Svensson wrote:  >> >> >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c8dg6o$pig$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>>  >>>  >>>>Jan van Mastbergen wrote:  >>>>C >>>>When OSF died a well deserved death Digital changed the name of E >>>>OSF-1 to DECUNIX quickly followed by another rebranding to Tru64.  >>>  >>>  >>>Why was it well deserved? >>>  >>4 >>Because the motives for creating OSF were entirely2 >>bogus and because is set back the development of% >>UNIX to a point where NT creapt in.  >  > K > As far as I could tell, the motives for creating OSF were mostly distress I > at the idea that AT&T - still official proprietors of Unix - had taken  M > a significant ownership position in Sun.  This made other Unix players feel O > that the playing field was no longer level, and that they had to do something  > about it.  >    Ahh Bogus point number 1.   F In fact AT&T did not pass any ownership of UNIX to Sun at all, insteadE Sun was contracted to do a lot of the SVR4 development the results of ) which were all owned by AT&T and not Sun.   D And even if the first point had been partly true and Sun had aquiredC partial ownership of SVR4 there was no evidence that Sun would have > used that ownership to the dissadvantage of the other vendors.  @ Sun after all had an exemplary record of providing access to its3 one IP, one only has to think of NFS as an example.   B The best you could say about HP, IBM and HP's motives in this case> was that they assumed that Sun would behave in the same way as? they would have done if the assumed boot was on the other foot.   Q > OSF, incidentally, ended up merging with X/Open, if memory serves.  Unix System N > Laboratories -- the entity that AT&T and Sun created to be the official UnixM > development entity, on the other hand, has been the increasingly-dispirited < > toy of Novell, then SCO, then Caldera.  Was that deserved? >   L Actually neither my origional point nor your point is quite how it happened.  F Novell transfered the rights to the UNIX trademark and the Single UNIXE specification to the X-Open Group in 1993, this was used as the basis B for the UNIX95 spec which was released in 1995 (suprise, suprise).  B OSF merged with X-Open and ceased being a development organisation' or in other words it collapsed in 1996.     0 > (In other words, plenty of blame to go round.) >   @ Not at all, the Sun was contracted to develop SVR4, the creation= of OSF was a reaction to this simply based on a fear that Sun > would behave as HP, IBM or Digital would have if they had been in Sun's possition   regards  Andrew Harrison  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:45:48 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> G Subject: Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info????? 0 Message-ID: <c8inbt$fgv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:n > In article <c8f7v8$enj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> writes: >  >>David Svensson wrote:  >> >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c8dg6o$pig$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>>  >>>  >>>>Jan van Mastbergen wrote:  >>>>C >>>>When OSF died a well deserved death Digital changed the name of E >>>>OSF-1 to DECUNIX quickly followed by another rebranding to Tru64.  >>>  >>>Why was it well deserved? >>4 >>Because the motives for creating OSF were entirely2 >>bogus and because is set back the development of% >>UNIX to a point where NT creapt in.  >  > C > NO. OSF tried to make an real (UNIX) operating system out of U**X J > by standardizing the missing parts which were not required when U**X wasN > in universities (and existed mainly in 2 flavors east-coast and west-coast).H > It used the Request For Technology (instead of RFC) method to speed upJ > things. OSF had a lot of good intentions with and for UNIX. Sun had not., > (They had only good intentions for SunOS). >   < The reality of why OSF was set up is rather different to the? point you make. OSF was set up as a reaction to AT&T's decision < to contract Sun to develop SVR4. HP, IBM and Digital thought: that Sun would appropriate SVR4, no doubt because that was? exactly what they would have done had they been in Sun's shoes.   ; The creation of OSF was all about who had access to UNIX IP C and whether they would missuse this access for their own commercial  gains.  @ Claiming that Sun did not have good intentions for UNIX is totalB rubbish. At the time Sun had an exemplary record of providing easy< access to its IP, still does in fact. This cannot be said to3 be true of any of the main founding members of OSF.   K > When the (UNIX) business came in (when workstation and shortly thereafter I > RISC were hip), vendors tried to fill the gap of UNIX (to a real opsys) H > with proprietary extensions (time and name/directory services, printerH > management, user management, look-and-feel, desktop applications, ...)N > which lead to big incompatibilites in the umpteen different flavors of U**X. >   C Odd, the whole reason for doing SVR4 was to reconcile just the same C differences that you refer to. Ironically OSF was set up in part to $ oppose this standardisation process.    F > OSF (and X-OPEN, which also tried to standardize U**X by defining anG > X-OPEN portability guide XPG which came AFAIK until version 4) didn't I > really deserve to die. The U**X vendors thought that they will get more J > money _without_ a standardized UNIX and were no longer really supportingJ > these (X-OPEN Group) and therefor also drove the customers to Billy in a > stampede.  >   ? OSF did not attempt to standardise UNIX in fact you could argue = that its opposition to the SVR4 standardisation process was a 8 major impediment to the production of one standard UNIX.  < UNIX95 was such an attempt, developed by X-Open and based on= the Single UNIX specification based on SVR4 donated by Novell  the UNIX owner du jour.   I > LINUX (but only on IA32 and maybe IA32-64) is yet another (and probably I > the last) try to standardize U**X to get enough market power against M$ G > (which is also not open, but still more open than a commercial UNIX).  >   ? That would be true if there really was one Linux, in fact there > are as many slightly incompatible Linux distributions as there/ are many Linux distros as there were UNIX OE's.    Regards  Andrew Harrison  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:40:39 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> ' Subject: RE: Booting over Fibre Channel R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB355C66@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----3 > From: Dan Fabrick [mailto:dan.fabrick@srs.gov]=20  > Sent: May 19, 2004 10:23 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com % > Subject: Booting over Fibre Channel  >=20G > I am trying to boot my VMS 7.3-2 system from a Fibre channel attached D > disk.  I was able to do a standalone backup to the FC disk from my@ > normal boot disk, but I seem to have run into a wall on how toE > identify the FC disk for the boot command.  Anyone have an example?  >=20
 > TIA, Dan >=20   Dan,  % Check out chapter 7 of cluster guide: H http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732FINAL/DOCUMENTATION/PDF/aa-q28lg-tk.PDF   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:36:18 GMT & From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@vaxination.ca> Subject: Dave Cutler and VMS@ Message-ID: <f7ecd96fba880e2ee45614e80646853a@news.teranews.com>  C Can someone post an authoritative answer to the following question:   # What exactly did Cutler do to VMS ?   K In other words, from the baggage he brought with him to Microsoft, how much J was *his* and how much was just stuff he learned during the time he worked with other engineers on VMS ?   M At exactly what version of VMS did Cutler start and end his VMS involvement ?   L I am a bit tired of seeing this one individual portrayed as some form of god; without knowing any of the specifics of what he did to VMS.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:07:57 GMT 4 From: "Roert G. Schaffrath" <rschaffrath@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: Dave Cutler and VMS% Message-ID: <40ACE5FD.5BDA@yahoo.com>    This article is as good as any:   D http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?IssueID=97&ArticleID=4494   Robert   JF Mezei wrote:  > E > Can someone post an authoritative answer to the following question:  > % > What exactly did Cutler do to VMS ?  > M > In other words, from the baggage he brought with him to Microsoft, how much L > was *his* and how much was just stuff he learned during the time he worked > with other engineers on VMS ?  > O > At exactly what version of VMS did Cutler start and end his VMS involvement ?  > N > I am a bit tired of seeing this one individual portrayed as some form of god= > without knowing any of the specifics of what he did to VMS.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2004 07:34:32 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 2 Subject: Re: Eastern Washington University project3 Message-ID: <VqhYTGGfpdlI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   H In article <c8gi6k01lbe@enews2.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com writes: > L > I know things such as "Mainframe" and "Minicomputer" are hard to quantify,H > but that's a bit outrageous.  OTOH, wasn't a VAX10000 supposed to be a > "Mainframe Class" system?   >    VAX 9000, VAX 10000, and DEC 10000 (Alpha) were all classed    "mainframes".   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2004 07:43:49 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 2 Subject: Re: Eastern Washington University project3 Message-ID: <HdhhCAGbOSHn@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <VqhYTGGfpdlI@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  > @ >    VAX 9000, VAX 10000, and DEC 10000 (Alpha) were all classed >    "mainframes". >   B    OBTW, we recently reaplced a DEC 10000 for which big bucks wereD    paid with a smaller, faster Alpha workstation which we pulled out
    of excess.       We needed the floor space.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2004 08:20:09 -0700% From: whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) 2 Subject: Re: Eastern Washington University project= Message-ID: <af0dc2ea.0405200720.5fa08285@posting.google.com>   w williamwebb@openvms-rocks.com (William Webb) wrote in message news:<bf98c417.0405190828.5fe9be8a@posting.google.com>... - >From: DL Phillips [mailto:whohe@whoever.com]  > >   > > Your search - openvms OR vmsC > > site:http://www.sanface.com/txt2pdfPRO.html - did not match any  > > documents. > >  > B > DL- go to Sanface's main page and put VMS into the search box.   > 	 > 8 hits.  >  > WWWebb  C Thanks William. I'll have to read more about it then. After a quick D scan it doesn't look like what I'm after, though. We don't use PERL5> and we don't run X. I've been half-heartedly looking for a VMS9 alterative to the free-bee Acrobat PDF-Writer for Wintel.   D But, I haven't read everything about the txt2pdf gizmo yet. I'd needF something that would look like a "print-to-file" printer to the user &F application. Since our clients are using the free Acrobat product now,E any VMS based PDF-writer would have to be competitively priced and we ; can't invest a lot of time in making something else work:-)     Doug    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:29:30 GMT 3 From: Michael Grunditz <michael.grunditz@telia.com> 6 Subject: Re: Hobbyist Licensing? (was: Re: netbooting)1 Message-ID: <4dc414b24c.michael@privat.utfors.se>    > E >   There are two sets of licenses required, one for the Alpha or VAX E >   system itself (the base license), and one set of licenses for the C >   layered products.  It is almost certain that you are missing or 5 >   you have not loaded the layered product licenses.  > E >   I am improving the cross-references for and the visibility of the B >   associated hobbyist licensing text present in the OpenVMS FAQ. > G >   I'll see if I can find someone that can update the hobbyist websiteeD >   webpage and/or hobbyist website FAQ, as this confusion is fairly
 >   common.  i  & I have installed all layered licenses.   /Michael   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:43:00 +0000 (UTC)a From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk) Subject: Re: LAT & Hobbiest VMS questionsK( Message-ID: <c8i23k$4i$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>  V In article <slrncao210.uvi.njc@wolfgang.uucp>, Neil Cherry <njc@wolfgang.uucp> writes:; >On Wed, 19 May 2004 20:11:00 +0200, Reinhard Eigner wrote:P  >>> > $ @sys$startup:lat$startupB >>> >%RUN-S-PROC_ID, identification of created process is 0000011D >>>  >>> First thanks!P >>>AH >>> DOH! I forgot to start LAT! OK, new problem. I started LAT and now IG >>> get this (the 0 rating is bad and the Service responder looks bad):  >> n >> U >> Hi again, >>  K >> Here's my output. I haven't configured anything before I start LAT but I  >> think > A >The suggestion to do lcp help actually helped. I was missing the  >  >lcp sh node /state=on > 9 >Once I did that the LAT had a rating of 53! Zero is bad.i > F >So now I have to run the startup command and then the LCP :== ... andF >then the lcp set node /state=on. I'll have to add that to the network >startup so it runs every time.e >S  / Look at the file  sys$startup:lat$systartup.com1D this is meant to be edited in order to define how LAT is started up.& The file is called by lat$startup.com.   Look for a line like   lcp set node /state=on  + you will probably find it is commented out.-  L (If the file lat$systartup.com doesn't exist look for lat$systartup.templateE - you may need to copy the template file to create lat$systartup.com.l )   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University         >Thanks everyone!l >F >-- E >Linux Home Automation         Neil Cherry        ncherry@comcast.net7< >http://home.comcast.net/~ncherry/               (Text only)> >http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/                 (SourceForge)9 >http://hcs.sourceforge.net/                     (HCS II)P   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 07:58:45 -0500r% From: Neil Cherry <njc@wolfgang.uucp>v) Subject: Re: LAT & Hobbyist VMS questionsi. Message-ID: <slrncapamd.3u3.njc@wolfgang.uucp>  < On Wed, 19 May 2004 20:46:03 -0500, David J. Dachtera wrote:$ > (subject line spelling corrected)   E Oh, thanks, I always seem to get that one wrong. You'd think I'd know  better by now.  I > If your node offers no services, I would also expect to see a zero hereCH > (how can VMS calculate dynamic rating for services that don't exist?).  D Turns out I needed lpc set node /state=on. Strange, I don't remember( seeing that in the startup file for LAT.  F If I want to add various service names can I use one port or do I haveD to use multiple ports for multiple names (like p1 p2 etc.)? I'm just@ fooling around with the VMS and trying to learn bits and pieces. Thanks.i   -- iD Linux Home Automation         Neil Cherry        ncherry@comcast.net; http://home.comcast.net/~ncherry/               (Text only)t= http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/                 (SourceForge)h8 http://hcs.sourceforge.net/                     (HCS II)   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2004 03:05:09 -0700$ From: gspamtackett@yahoo.com (Galen) Subject: Re: longest uptimen= Message-ID: <bdc65a53.0405200205.737faa62@posting.google.com>h  i Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote in message news:<40AB8BF8.2020800@Flying-Disk.com>...v > Galen wrote: > G > > 1000 points if you can tell me the "program number" that designatedeA > > the operation residing in that building. (This number was notxH > > considered particularly sensitive-you could find it in the corporate > > phone book.) >  > 949h  C Alan, you're off by several hundred! But oddly, you are only off byrD several tens from a more sensitive program number that was also usedA internally. I'll give you 40 points for guessing so close to thatsD number, and a hint: We were located a stone's throw beyond the fenceE of the former NAS Moffett Field. (We were not ON the field, like Nasa2( Ames is.)  (Wait, is that two hints? :-)  F I also did a good bit of RSX-11M/M+ programming there. That's probably> not a helpful piece of information, but just a part of my warm memories of the job.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2004 05:54:15 -0700, From: JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow) Subject: Re: longest uptime = Message-ID: <4b6ec350.0405200454.7efc8223@posting.google.com>x  j info@it-bcsb.de (Klaus-D. Bohn) wrote in message news:<12fe110f.0405110448.18924720@posting.google.com>... > Hello all VMS lovers, @ > im searching for the longest uptime from a VMS System/Cluster. > A > If have anyone of you a screen shot "show sys/noproc" and "showe  > cluster" please send it to me. >  > Thank you very much !i >     Klaus-D. Bohns  D We recently supported an OpenVMS v7.1-2 AlphaServer site that was up
 for 560 days.d2 It had a disk defragmenter running on a scheduler.F It had up to 160 concurrent users (police dispatchers, records clerks, etc.)   D OpenVMS V7.1-2  on node XXAXPA   1-APR-2004 04:37:32.97  Uptime  560 18:02:49  C Only when we introduced a replacement OpenVMS v7.3-1 machine to the4= network and did some SQL*LOAD of data from the old to the new A AlphaServer (during a scheduled test) that the legacy AlphaServer E crashed. There was some problem with LAT and moving data from 1.x.x.x  to 10.x.x.x i.p. addresses.   C We might have been able to avoid that crash by installing a certainn+ V7.1-2 patch and rebooting before the test. C A system that is up for long periods of time is often not up to the 
 latest patch.t  . Jim, Data911 Systems Manager, Alameda, CA, USA   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:25:00 GMTt* From: "Rahul" <rahul.kulkarni@digital.com> Subject: Minimum GBLPAGES..l2 Message-ID: <ws1rc.1935$n83.1295@news.cpqcorp.net>   Hello,H    Could anybody tell me the procedure to calculate the minimum GBLPAGESH required for a product? Is there any formula for calculating the minimum GBLPAGES required?K Is "$ instal list/global" help to find out the minimum GBLPAGES required? Id' could not able to interpret its output.d  - Thanks for any information about this topic..e   Regards, Rahul    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:13:07 +0100d* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> Subject: Re: Minimum GBLPAGES..t' Message-ID: <c8i7g5$f2u$1@lore.csc.com>l   Rahul wrote: > J >    Could anybody tell me the procedure to calculate the minimum GBLPAGESJ > required for a product? Is there any formula for calculating the minimum > GBLPAGES required?M > Is "$ instal list/global" help to find out the minimum GBLPAGES required? Ir) > could not able to interpret its output.   B Ideally the product documentation should contain this information,E because they ought to know just how many of their product's pages aree2 global. Therefore give you an ADD_GBLPAGES number.  G However, the actual system overhead of extra global pages is quite low,e. so you can afford to be generous with a guess.  D http://askq.compaq.com/ tick High Performance Systems and enter your> question about GBLPAGES and you'll match some useful articles.  G The output you've seen just lists the used and free areas. You may also-3 have concerns or requirements for contiguous pages.    -- h? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:56:46 GMTe3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)m Subject: Re: Minimum GBLPAGES..t1 Message-ID: <iW1rc.1937$Re3.386@news.cpqcorp.net>e  3 In article <ws1rc.1935$n83.1295@news.cpqcorp.net>, t, "Rahul" <rahul.kulkarni@digital.com> writes:  I >   Could anybody tell me the procedure to calculate the minimum GBLPAGES  >required for a product?...n  ! This is mostly trial-and-error.  d  0 Set GBLPAGES high enough for the product to run.? Observe GBLPAGES in us.  e.g. using f$getsyi("USED_GBLPAGCNT"). > Stop the product; observe GBLPAGES again; take the difference.( Try the resul and perhaps mung it a bit.  F This will giv you a starting point.  You should regularly run AUTOGEN A with FEEDBACK to refine this and other system parameter settings.t   -- mJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:55:03 +0000 (UTC)i6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: Minimum GBLPAGES.. 1 Message-ID: <newscache$voj0yh$l3e1$1@news.sil.at>9  _ In article <ws1rc.1935$n83.1295@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Rahul" <rahul.kulkarni@digital.com> writes: I >   Could anybody tell me the procedure to calculate the minimum GBLPAGES I >required for a product? Is there any formula for calculating the minimum  >GBLPAGES required? L >Is "$ instal list/global" help to find out the minimum GBLPAGES required? I( >could not able to interpret its output.  ( $ install li/gl sys$system:decc$compiler  ' DISK$VMSSYS:<SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE>.EXE #    DECC$COMPILER;1  Open Hdr Shared.           System Global Sections  - DSA0:<SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE>DECC$COMPILER.EXEaP  INS$83D507B0_016(7CAF763E)              PRM SYS             Pgltcnt/Refcnt=52/0O  INS$83D507B0_013(7CAF763E)              PRM SYS             Pgltcnt/Refcnt=3/0yQ  INS$83D507B0_011(7CAF763E)              PRM SYS             Pgltcnt/Refcnt=186/0oR  INS$83D507B0_008(7CAF763E)              PRM SYS             Pgltcnt/Refcnt=7645/0R  INS$83D507B0_003(7CAF763E)              PRM SYS             Pgltcnt/Refcnt=2202/0  Q This one image has 5 global sections and 10008 (52+3+186+7645+2202) global pages.   T If the 'product' consists only of this image (which DECC doesn't), then you're done.   -Peter  W PS: The Refcnt=0 means, I haven't invoked the image since installing it (at boot time). V PPS: You _may_ need _contigous_ global pages for your image(s) leading to maybe a muchE higher global pages requirement (to fulfill this contigous criteria).= --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERd% Network and OpenVMS system specialistb E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:55:26 GMTl& From: "b_corbin" <brian.corbin@hp.com>G Subject: Re: OpenVMS v7.3-1 detach process creation - strange behaviour 2 Message-ID: <iN2rc.1941$3h3.1794@news.cpqcorp.net>  C I've been reviewing the following files on a VMS 7.3-2  WEBES 4.3-2h: installation and this problem has been reported and fixed.  - SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$STARTUP]WCCPROXY$STARTUP.COMs   ....H $! fix for PTR 91-22-1649 & 91-27-47 -- max no of characters allowed forK $! process name in run command for creating a process is 15. Hence changing.' $! the process name as "Start WCCProxy"  $       runnL /buffer_limit=127808/enqueue_limit=4000/io_buffered=300/io_direct=300 /detac /proce="Start WCCProxy" -lI         /input=wccproxy_home:[common.wccproxy.bin]wccproxydetachstart.comr! /output=wccproxydetachstart.log - >         sys$system:loginout.exe /priority=15 /page_file=296752      Brian      C "Andrew Rycroft" <andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com> wrote in message 7 news:58ba0101.0405170539.566e612c@posting.google.com...1 > Hi,c >tC > I have come across the following strange behaviour when trying to  > create a detached process :- > ; > The command procedure i.com creates a detached process :-  >l > $ type i.com/ > $                                       run -P> >         /io_direct=300 /detac /process="Starting WCCProxy" - >iL /input=DKA200:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.WEBES.HP.NODES.EDDIE1.SVCTOOLS.common.wccproxy .bin]wccproxydetachstart.com > -k@ >         sys$system:loginout.exe /priority=15 /page_file=296752 > $exitt >  > If I run it it aborts with :-l >n
 > $ @i.com( > %RUN-F-CREPRC, process creation failed* > -SYSTEM-F-IVLOGNAM, invalid logical name >0( > If I now change the /process qualifier >  > $ type i.com/ > $                                       run -s; >         /io_direct=300 /detac /process="Start WCCProxy" -0 >1L /input=DKA200:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.WEBES.HP.NODES.EDDIE1.SVCTOOLS.common.wccproxy .bin]wccproxydetachstart.com > -.@ >         sys$system:loginout.exe /priority=15 /page_file=296752 > $exit< >r > And run it :-@ >p > $ @i? > %RUN-S-PROC_ID, identification of created process is 00000256. > $  >> > It runs successfully.: >>: > Any input as to why this might be would be appreciated ? >n > With regards > Andrew   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:18:13 +0000 (UTC)r6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)! Subject: Re: Request for new SMTPa1 Message-ID: <newscache$kfc0yh$92c1$1@news.sil.at>r  f In article <40AA718E.B17E34B1@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes: >Larry Kilgallen wrote:ei >> In article <409FCEAC.6FD5E5E3@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes:  >>< >> The proper technique is to reject during the SMTP dialog.   Yup.  N >I have been thinking about this... and I somewhat disagree.. it is impossible >to reject on an unknownL >quantity. If I recall correctly, SMTP does not determine if the user exists >or not until after it has+ >received and processed the entire message.   F That is a problem of the MTA implementation, not of the SMTP protocol.K MX does reject, TCPIP's MTA (named MAIL _and_ SMTP) does unfortunately not.e6 You can run MX on top of TCPIP (instead of its MTA)...  > >IE, you do not know that some made-up username does not exist >on your system.  G If you use MX and you populate the VMSmail forwarding database, you cano7 even reject mails to users not on the local VMS system.s  H >So, the post-processing of the message will "bounce" the message to the >person listed in k >the "MAIL FROM:" command.  But, if this too is bogus it gets "bounced" back to me..  thereby causing us/mee. >to have to handle the same bogus email twice.  I That is the problem of accepting mails first (and therefor responsibility I for it) and then deciding what to do afterwards (instead of decide beforeeA and later accept/reject them). The answer is simple, don't do it.   E If you reject the mail, it keeps the resposibility of the sending MTAdF to bounce the message back to the MUA (user) and not yours. And if theK sending MTA is a relay, then it's postmaster deserves the traffic and work,tB and if it is a spammer then it deserves the unsuccessful delivery.  C Most virus scanners combined with firewalls still have this problemXH (firewalls have usually *very poor* implentations of MTAs (eg. no ESMTP,J no user db) so VMS with MX (and SOPHOS) as the first hop from the internet  seems currently the best choice.  F >What ever method (reject email or prohibit bounced messages) is used,$ >it would still be nice to have this/ >functionality -- and the sooner the better....   K I agree, that every MTA implementation should have the reject functionalitySK at the RCPT TO: stage based on implicit (user db) or explicit (black lists)-	 criteria.    >receive email- >discovers user does not exist on this systemG% >do not bounce it.. just delete it...g  $ That is problematic but easy doable.G Besides it isn't conforming to the RFC, you can simply delete the mails$B in the TCPIP$SMTP mailbox instead of reading them. It's up to you.   -- G Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERb% Network and OpenVMS system specialiste E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:53:49 +0000 (UTC)n From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk! Subject: Re: Request for new SMTP ( Message-ID: <c8i2nt$4i$2@news.mdx.ac.uk>  j In article <newscache$kfc0yh$92c1$1@news.sil.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:g >In article <40AA718E.B17E34B1@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes:c >>Larry Kilgallen wrote:j >>> In article <409FCEAC.6FD5E5E3@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes: >>> = >>> The proper technique is to reject during the SMTP dialog.a >n >Yup.  > O >>I have been thinking about this... and I somewhat disagree.. it is impossiblee >>to reject on an unknownlM >>quantity. If I recall correctly, SMTP does not determine if the user existsa >>or not until after it has , >>received and processed the entire message. >iG >That is a problem of the MTA implementation, not of the SMTP protocol.lL >MX does reject, TCPIP's MTA (named MAIL _and_ SMTP) does unfortunately not.7 >You can run MX on top of TCPIP (instead of its MTA)...h >iD Most good MTAs can be configured to reject during the SMTP dialogue.? However there may be good reasons why a company doesn't do thise eg  I A company has external mailhubs outside it's firewalls which are the onlyGL external mail systems which can talk to internal mailhubs behind the companyN firewall. Those external mail hubs may just pass incoming mail to the internalG systems they may not have a list of users on them for security reasons.r  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University        ? >>IE, you do not know that some made-up username does not exist' >>on your system.g > H >If you use MX and you populate the VMSmail forwarding database, you can8 >even reject mails to users not on the local VMS system. >4I >>So, the post-processing of the message will "bounce" the message to thee >>person listed inl >>the "MAIL FROM:" command.  But, if this too is bogus it gets "bounced" back to me..  thereby causing us/me/ >>to have to handle the same bogus email twice.c >RJ >That is the problem of accepting mails first (and therefor responsibilityJ >for it) and then deciding what to do afterwards (instead of decide beforeB >and later accept/reject them). The answer is simple, don't do it. >nF >If you reject the mail, it keeps the resposibility of the sending MTAG >to bounce the message back to the MUA (user) and not yours. And if the$L >sending MTA is a relay, then it's postmaster deserves the traffic and work,C >and if it is a spammer then it deserves the unsuccessful delivery.O >1D >Most virus scanners combined with firewalls still have this problemI >(firewalls have usually *very poor* implentations of MTAs (eg. no ESMTP,uK >no user db) so VMS with MX (and SOPHOS) as the first hop from the internet ! >seems currently the best choice.e >hG >>What ever method (reject email or prohibit bounced messages) is used,t% >>it would still be nice to have this 0 >>functionality -- and the sooner the better.... >dL >I agree, that every MTA implementation should have the reject functionalityL >at the RCPT TO: stage based on implicit (user db) or explicit (black lists)
 >criteria. >o >>receive emailU. >>discovers user does not exist on this system& >>do not bounce it.. just delete it... > % >That is problematic but easy doable.tH >Besides it isn't conforming to the RFC, you can simply delete the mailsC >in the TCPIP$SMTP mailbox instead of reading them. It's up to you.m >, >--  >Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER& >Network and OpenVMS system specialist >E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atoG >A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realisto   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:12:55 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>o* Subject: Re: SUN fails to advertise VMS...0 Message-ID: <c8ied7$p4b$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rudolf Wingert wrote:e > Hello, > E > Andrew, do you think that it is an illusion, that there are OpenVMS-F > sites on the air (internet) without any downtime in case of viruses, > worms and trojaner?UC > John Covert and other do have OpenVMS at home and do all internetBB > services (WEBserver, Email, ...) with OpenVMS. They do have onlyH > downtime in case of power fail. I did not hear that a complete OpenVMS4 > site was down like Sun Solaris, in case of a worm. >   : When exactly did you hear of a Sun Solaris site going down because of a worm ??   regards  Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:21:53 +0100iO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>a* Subject: Re: SUN fails to advertise VMS...0 Message-ID: <c8ieu3$r2j$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   John Smith wrote:q7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message>8 > news:d7791aa1.0405181519.1cf087d@posting.google.com... > K >>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>o > ? > wrote in message news:<c8dfbl$p5u$3@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  >>>>Having a bad day?o >>>a7 >>>Why would pointing out Bobs very obvious failings be % >>>a symptom of me having a bad day ?d >>>n
 >>>regards >>>Andrew Harrison >>< >>the only thing you are pointing out is your desperation to@ >>trash the only os that can't get viruses and has 13 irrelevant> >>certs in 13 years (i.e. decwindows) because your company and< >>every other one out there is selling patch of the day club3 >>memberships in the form of unix/linux/windoze ...t >  >  >  > Bob, > L > Somehow I don't think that going on about this time after time with AndrewL > will convince him any time soon that he should run out and buy VMS for useL > in his company, even though Andrew knows in his heart that you are correct > ;-)   	 Odd idea.l  ? I have proved that Bobs claims are BS using a number of sourcesn< including HP's own bug reports and Ask the Wizard responses.  ; It would be very illogical of me to think that Bob is rights+ given the wealth of evidence that he isn't.s  1 Trust me, in my heart I think Bob is spouting BS.   4 Do you really think that Solaris is Slowaris or that6 you need 80,000 SPARC's to = 1 Alpha or that CERT is a2 good place to start a comparative study of OpenVMS vs other OS security ?  3 The only thing they have in common apart from theirg8 lack supporting facts is that they are favourite threads for Bob.   Regards  Andrew Harrisonh > I > You'd be of greater service to OpenVMS by convincing all your company'seJ > suppliers and customers to come over to VMS. Statistically you'll have aE > better chance of doing that than getting Andrew to change his view.e >  > John >  >    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:30:57 +0000 (UTC)m6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)/ Subject: Re: VMS731_FIBRE_SCSI-V0600.DCX_AXPEXEr1 Message-ID: <newscache$r0d0yh$q2c1$1@news.sil.at>   w In article <c8f42l$7jg$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:tE >I see that the .TXT has been changed, reflecting the fact that this HF >patch is no longer on hold, but the patch itself seems to be missing: >:H >May  7 12:56  text/plain       VMS731_FIBRE_SCSI-V0600.DCX_AXPEXE  50KbA >May 18 16:43  text/plain       VMS731_FIBRE_SCSI-V0600.txt  67Kbe >nI >(VMS731_FIBRE_SCSI-V0600.DCX_AXPEXE decompresses to the old .TXT saying   >that the patch is on hold.)  - Same problem with the VMS732_FIBRE_SCSI-V0300c  > >Does anyone know when the patch will be taken off hold again?   Not me. I But according to the announcements, this is not intended, it is a glitch.s  D >I signed up for the patch notification at OpenVMS.org; would it be I >possible to include layered products in the announcements?  (I see, for FD >example, that there are new C and C++ patches for ALPHA available.)  I Sigh. Iff the patch notification would reliably work, then I would secondi; the request. But currently I want it to simply work only...w   -- i Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERs% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:24:07 -0400X From: norm.raphael@metso.com/ Subject: Re: VMS731_FIBRE_SCSI-V0600.DCX_AXPEXEaQ Message-ID: <OF8B0A241A.B1F343F9-ON85256E9A.005478E3-85256E9A.0054AAB5@metso.com>h  H It seems that these two ECOs have been "recalled to life." The files are" now on the retrieval site with theK original PCSI kits compressed within.  So if you downloaded it before, it'sn! the same one, and if you downloadc: inow, you should get the correct no-longer-on-hold ECO(s).  J On the other hand, two minutes have passed, so things may have changed....  D peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) wrote on 05/20/2004 06:30:57 AM:  F > In article <c8f42l$7jg$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de4 > (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:F > >I see that the .TXT has been changed, reflecting the fact that thisH > >patch is no longer on hold, but the patch itself seems to be missing: > >tJ > >May  7 12:56  text/plain       VMS731_FIBRE_SCSI-V0600.DCX_AXPEXE  50KbC > >May 18 16:43  text/plain       VMS731_FIBRE_SCSI-V0600.txt  67Kbn > >sJ > >(VMS731_FIBRE_SCSI-V0600.DCX_AXPEXE decompresses to the old .TXT saying > >that the patch is on hold.) >i/ > Same problem with the VMS732_FIBRE_SCSI-V0300y >r@ > >Does anyone know when the patch will be taken off hold again? > 	 > Not me.sK > But according to the announcements, this is not intended, it is a glitch.  >UE > >I signed up for the patch notification at OpenVMS.org; would it betJ > >possible to include layered products in the announcements?  (I see, forF > >example, that there are new C and C++ patches for ALPHA available.) > K > Sigh. Iff the patch notification would reliably work, then I would secondh= > the request. But currently I want it to simply work only...T >U > -- > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERg' > Network and OpenVMS system specialistd > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2004 08:48:20 -0700. From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby) Subject: Re: XDMP and TCPIP 5.4c< Message-ID: <224291b.0405200748.5eb87e57@posting.google.com>  ^ Tony Arnold <tony.arnold@man.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<c7nvs0$2hpp$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>...I > I've just upgraded ny Compaq XP-1000 systen to OpenVMS 7.3-2 and TCPIP b> > 5.4. XDMP used to work fine, but now it has stopped working. > F > I can make the intitial XDMP connection and I get the login window, K > however after logging in, something sets the security so on the X server  F > so that no client can talk to it including the system I just logged : > into. I just get the hour glass cursor and nothing else. > I > For information, the X server end is Cygwin's X11 distribution running  I > on Windows XP, however, this works perfectly on a 7.3-1/5.3 VMS system.0 >  > Any ideas anyone?  >  > Tony.p  E With Tony's assistance I have been able to locate a bug in DECwindows0& V1.3 and V1.3-1 which is causing this.  
 Essentially, >B   - if the display server does not support the Digital(Compaq/HP) 6     extension to the ChangeHosts protocol request, and@   - during the XDMP connection it adds the client system to its      self-hosts listo  D Then, the DECwindows session manager start-up can remove all entriesD from the hosts list and not insert an entry to allow access from the new session.  3 The bug is in old and new desktop session managers.    Martin Kirby   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 07:36:03 +0200c* From: "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised- Message-ID: <c8hg48$2u1q$1@news.cybercity.dk>C  K "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message:0 news:40AC0FC6.982A2117@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net... > Andrew Harrison wrote: > >- > > David J. Dachtera wrote: > >h$ > > > I have to agree with Bob here. > > ><% > > > The _CUSTOMER_ is always right.u > > >d? > > In an ideal world that would be the case, but is would be a.; > > foolish customer who took the view that the vendor willw; > > always follow a course of action most beneficial to allo > > their customers. >aE > ...and an even more foolish vendor who took the view that vendor isw" > right and the customer is wrong.  I If only the world was as simple as "the customer is always right" or "theVL vendor is always right."  It is not.  HP has millions of customers and thereJ is no way HP can please all of them.  HP has to chose a strategi and go byI that.  Then HP will have to accept that that strategi does not match some J its potential customers whishes, and thus these potential customers do notF become customers of HP.  Any company will have to do that.  It is alsoI called either "trying to do what you are good at doing" or "focusing your. company at it strengths."e  L In my view "the customer is always right" does not mean that the customer isH always right.  It means that you should avoid telling the customers that" they are wrong even when they are.  : > > Hence to need to do due dilligence on what you vendors# > > long term intentions really are  >fJ > ...unless YOUR strategic plan doesn't necessarily depend on the vendor's6 > future plans, but rather on their current offerings. > I > How many mission-critical VAXes will still be running when you and I nol
 > longer are?o  L So you are saying that it is wise to select a computer were there may not beH any upgrade path in the short future.  Pardon me, but what have you been smoking?  I What will you do if the system becomes a success and it cannot handle theoD load?  What will you do if you need new features that are beyond theJ capacity of your current hardware?  What will you do if the vendor choosesJ not to support the hardware at all, i.e., not even not to make even simple fixes?   Karsten Nyblad ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot comV   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:28:47 GMTX& From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@vaxination.ca>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised@ Message-ID: <3abfc295e2d9ec3c490c99af6133654c@news.teranews.com>   Karsten Nyblad wrote:BN > vendor is always right."  It is not.  HP has millions of customers and thereL > is no way HP can please all of them.  HP has to chose a strategi and go by > that.   M There was an article recently that put the number 750 as number of enterpriseXL customers HP deals directly with. I have no idea if this is worldwide or USA/ only. But it certaintly insn't in the millions.o  M The problem with VMS is that unlike wintel crap, it isn't available in shrink J wrapped versions you can buy at your local electronics store. So one wouldL normally go to HP if one were interested in VMS, but HP doesn't want to dealK with small/medium customers and only wants the really big ones. So the poor-M customer must try to find some dinausor reseller/VAR he has never dealt with.o  K This means that HP must not only market VMS to the public at large to reachiM the untapped potential customers, but it must also agressively facilitate theoM sales of VMS through any and all channels, not just a few select resellers. IiH have heard many stories of how it is difficult for a company to become a reseller of VMS/Alpha systems.  H I have often made the suggestion that Sue should have an 1-800-GREAT-VMSI number that anyone could use to bypass all the barriers that HP offers tohL prospective VMS clients and get info from the horse's mouth directly and SueI could then direct those prospective customers to their local VMS-friendlyuK reseller (or in rare cases, a local HP employee who actually not only knows K VMS but who is actually allowed to find prices and talk sales).  This wouldnJ tie in perfectly with the ambassador programme since Sue would then have aL direct line of information from the "public" and could direct ambassadors to fix problems the "public" find.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.279 ************************: Michael Grunditz <michael.grunditz@telia.com> 6 Subject: Re: Hobbyist Licensing? (was: Re: netbooting)1 Me <<< TYPE I >>> 200 Type I ok.! <<< PORT 202,161,111,162,19,25227 >>> 200 Port 19.252 at Host 202.161.111.162 accepted.<" <<< SIZE opendcl-for-windows.txt >>> 213 1317" <<< RETR opendcl-for-windows.txtf >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vmslt03a/vu/opendcl-for-windows.txt (1317 bytes) started.9 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  731 (8) bytes transferred.$ <<< TYPE I >>> 200 Type I ok.! <<< PORT 202,161,111,162,19,253 7 >>> 200 Port 19.253 at Host 202.161.111.162 accepted..